Brideshead Revisited ~ by Evelyn Waugh (movie version): Archived Book Discussion

"Virtually flawless Performances"
-The New York Times
Winner of 17 International Awards
Got popcorn? Let's Discuss!

If you could only give ONE acting prize for this movie, who would win?

Which did you like better, the movie or the book?
Which scene in the movie did you think the most memorable?

"Lavish and Beautiful"
--Time

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The photographs in the heading are taken, with one exception, from the movie DVD cover, the booklet accompanying the 25th Anniversary DVD, and in one case a still shot from the movie itself. Their purpose is to encourage viewing of the lavish 25th Anniversary DVD Collector's Edition of the movie.

A bright good morning to you on our first day of a week only discussion of Brideshead Revisited: the Movie, now just released in its 25 Anniversary Edition shown in the heading. We're not going to attempt any serious film criticism, instead_.

Here's the scene: the movie is over, we've heard that trumpet fanfare for the last time. We're either blown away or rigid after the long time sitting (11 hours! hahaha) We've staggered out of those low seats in the theater, and are holding up the other movie patrons, staring at the credits. Who WAS that at the Embassy where Charles found Sebsatian, he looks so familiar? As we walk out into the noise and brightness of the lobby, carefully depositing our cups and trash on the way, we're bursting to talk about it!

What a movie!! But did you like the end? So much to talk about! As we wend our way to the car, we can't help discussing the movie, the cast, the performances, the plot, and right away, we disagree! Hahahaaa Let's discuss this _.well what DID you think?

What did you think about Brideshead Revisited the Movie, originally shown in parts for television?? Three killer questions in the heading to start us off or pose your own. What struck YOU? Let's discuss!!!

I'll start by saying something I wouldn't in a book discussion, I absolutely LOVED this movie and was blown away by it. The art, the....I hope you can express better than I can what they did on the screen. Or maybe you hated it?

I've been thinking about the first question for days and days, because I myself could never choose: Best Actor in this film.

One thing I've noticed about the movie is that (I'm lacking Disk 1, I can't find it, so I can't see the entire movie outright which I did want to do) but you can put in any disk, just any disk and watch the rich thing unfold anew, and each time it's just incredible, you see something you did not see before! Little bits you missed.

The accompaniment (those of you with the 25th Anniversary Edition and the interviews and stuff, please feel free to comment on them, right down to the green hair hahaha) but the accompaniment says that Lawrence Olivier said that Johnny (John Gielgud) got all the good parts. Hahahaa

The CASTING! _.out of this world. Who else but Gielgud could do the father, Edward Ryder? And Olivier? As Lord Marchmain. Did you like his? I thought his bit about "Lord March MAIN_" and Ranieri's restaurant was out of this world. He just ate up the screen.

(Can you BELIEVE they have just made a new Brideshead? Are they nuts? With Jude Law? How can they improve upon this? Or can they? Might as well make a new Gone With the Wind. )

When we read the book I was appalled at the length of text Olivier had to memorize and how well he put his own touch on it. That entire thing was almost verbatim from the book, paragraph after paragraph, how did he do it? How do ANY of them memorize all that?

I hate to be so _.uninformed in the world of cinema but I am not sure I have seen either Gielgud or Olivier in other movies, believe it or not, tho of course have heard of them. Olivier must have been strikingly handsome in his youth. What movie might I see of either where I can see them doing their thing?

Best Actor? Quis? hahaaha to quote Olivier, who do YOU pick? CAN you pick one?

This morning I'm leaning toward Cordelia. I personally thought the woman who played Cordelia from an 11 year old to_what a woman in her 30's did the most incredible job I have ever seen. I thought she WAS 11. Incredible job, what is her name? It's never on anything I can see. She married the young director, Charles Sturridge, who took it over.

I must shut up. For now. What are your own thoughts? Let's discuss!! :}

I saw Laurence Olivier in "Henry V" when it first came out in 1944, and haven't yet recovered from the experience. I saw him also in "Rebecca", a wonderful performance. Yes, he was unbelievably handsome; looked as if he had a streak of cruelty in him, which was somehow appealing to a younger me.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get the Brideshead disks to cooperate with me, so missed Olivier entirely. I didn't like Claire Bloom as Lady Marchmain. She was altogether too feminine and limp-wristed to suit me. The actress who played Julia left me flat. I couldn't help thinking that Jeremy Irons' considerable talents were wasted in the role of Charles.

Yes, the actress who played Cordelia did a very good job. What's his name who played Sebastian was excellent. So was the actor who was Anthony. I would have preferred someone else besides Gielgud as Charles's father, though Gielgud managed to make me want to smack him every time he was onscreen.

I have read that Emma Thompson is to play Lady Marchmain in the new version. That should be something to see.

Please don't misunderstand me, this is a marvelous movie. I admired the way the script was kept so close to the book.

Mal

Well, here I am first up...As you say the movie or TV series is brilliant. I'd forgotten how good it was - can't believe they would try to make another. Wonder who Jude Law is playing.

If you want to see Olivier strutting his stuff try 'The Entertainer' For his sheer acting ability it's a knockout - the yarn is not bad either. Then there is his 'Henry V' great of its time and still gets you in even though some of the acting styles are a bit dated these days - his supporting cast is like a Who's Who.And what about his role of moody, tormented Max De Winter in 'Rebecca'?

I'm trying to think of one of Geilgud's pieces but they are all eluding me.His role as Edward Ryder was just perfect I can't really see Olivier in that part - but then each one makes a part his own...that's why they're actors.

Best actor in BR? my money is on the actor who played Cordelia. As you say she was brilliant in the way she handled the transition from a sheltered child to a woman making her way in the world. The Oscar goes to her!

Hi Mal: Good to see you here - we were posting at the same time...

I loved the film, I think because I had a chance to see it before reading the book, and to leisurely savor it. As Ginny says, it blows you away. The setting, the opulence, the mannerisms stayed with me during the reading, and no doubt colored my reading.

Yes, Phoebe Nicolls, who played Cordelia, did a superb job with the age range of her character. She could truly ask Charles, "Did you think, Poor Cordelia, such an engaging child, grown up a plain and pious spinster." She was in her early twenties when the film was made (b. 1958). I don't know about later films. Much of her work seems to have been with parts on British TV -- "All about me" and small parts in "Lewis" (following Inspector Morse) and "Midsomer Murders."

I won't make any awards, but Anthony Andrews portrayal of Sebastian stayed with me throughout the reading of the book. The one thing that bothered me about the film was that Sebastian just seemed to fall off the face of the map.

I watched all of the tapes of the film. Luckily, our town library had them. I enjoyed it very much. The thing that disappointed me was how they handled (or didn't handle) aging. I suppose it's difficult whenever a film spans a long time and the actors have to age. Sometimes, young actors are selected and they age with the use of makeup. In this case, older actors were selected and they were supposed to look young for a good part of the film. They didn't, in my opinion.

I did not care for Jeremy Irons as Charles. I'm probably shocking everyone by saying this. But, he was supposed to be a young college student for most of the story and he looked like he was in his late 30's or early 40's. Parting his hair differently did not make him look 19 or 20. Plus he was not handsome enough with the dark shadows under his eyes and his tiny mouth. He does have a wonderful deep voice, however.

Julia, too - too old for the part for most of the film. And definitely in his first scene Olivier was way too old as Lord Marchmain, even though I adore Olivier. I didn't think Sebastian and Julia were beautiful enough. They were supposed to be extremely beautiful and they were not, although they are handsome. I did think Sebastian was nicely petulant and charming.

The sets were gorgeous - wonderful. The acting was excellent. My favorite was Geilgud as Charles' father.

Ginny: You have to see Olivier as Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights.

Oh, dear, I'll never catch up ... I only saw the 1st episode, In Arcadia ... and then the disk was broken, and I couldn't watch episode II. (Tried 3 different DVD players, also ... never mind if the neighbors think I'm eccentric).

Now I'm waiting for Discs 2 and 3 to arrive in the mail.
How does anyone with these mail-services get the film in time?
I put it on my list a month ago, but they said "short wait" and sent the next movie in the queue.

As Charles's father, Gielgud was terrific. Who was it asking about memorizing all the lines? I thought they shoot films in little snippets and put it together in the editing room. So no one has to memorize a lot at once, as in the theater.

I plan to read all your posts and see if I can put in my 2 cents

Oh I love all your comments!!!

Malryn, I must send you the missing disks, which do you lack, you must lack 4, you can't miss Olivier!

Thank you for the Henry V and Rebecca, I'm making a list from all the recommendations here. He and Gielgud were together training as actors, imagine THAT scene.

I googled Gielgud and he's been in everything, mostly Shakespeare, I do remember his Julius Caesar now, I thought at the time he was too old to play it, I must see it again now.

Apparently they were together in Richard III, that might make a great one to view and Gielgud has been in everything.

Why did you want to smack him as Father? Hahahaa

Can you all see Olivier as Father? For some reason I can't. I can see Gielgud as Lord Marchmain, tho but Olivier is SO Byronic, isn't he? I can't see him as ER, can you all?

" I didn't like Claire Bloom as Lady Marchmain. She was altogether too feminine and limp-wristed to suit me."

Really! What did YOU all think of Claire Bloom (isn't she absolutely gorgeous, how old was she? Is she still alive?) as Mummy? I think Emma Thompson would be a wonderful Mummy.

"The actress who played Julia left me flat." Me too. She's_.homely. I can't understand how she can look so_homely_.. almost ugly in some shots and radiantly beautiful in others. She's an amazing change artist, but her mouth is quite ugly.

I guess she hadn't much to work with and she looked about as much like Sebastian as I do a tree. Originally you know the commentaries variously say that both actors, Irons and Andrews, wanted Sebastian's part. I think Jeremy Irons looks more like Diana Quick than Anthony Andrews does, and he did want the part. Somehow I can't see him as Sebastian.

Can you?

Their decision to make Sebastian fair haired was a good one I think. I loved Anthony Andrews in that part, tho as Marni said they were a bit old.

I loved the little touches he did. For instance when he'd had to crank that car? If you remember those old crank cars they almost never started at once and it was several quite dangerous cranks before you could get them going: dangerous because they literally could snap your arm off. When Andrews started the car both times with one crank, his glee and surprise could not be suppressed, I loved that.

Diana Quick, seeing him come up in her part of the commentary sighed. I played it twice, and she said to Irons, "you do look like me, " or something of the sort, I need to listen to it again, but it seems perhaps she did not like Andrews in that role. I thought he was fabulous, much better than she was.

He's just been in a Rosemary and Thyme series in England in 2006. I did not recognize him, tho he's aged well because I was not looking for him. His hair is sort of red, but as I watched it those little mannerisms, something about the way he did things, I kept thinking who IS this and finally it hit me! Sebastian grown up! Hahahaa

I mean the way he wore his clothes in the opening scenes, that little skip as they went out to the car, he was absolutely perfect, I thought. I can't see Jeremy Irons in that at all, can you?

I agree, Gum, it is brilliant. Jude Law, is he a little old for Sebastian, but that's what I would have chosen. I've seen the two actors who are playing in it and neither is he. I've added The Entertainer to my list for Olivier.

Yes that Phoebe Nicolls (thank you Pedln) has to get our nod for Oscars, she was out of this world. I know I could not play an 11 year old! Hahahaaa

Who would you give Best Supporting Actor to?

I agree, Pedln, "The setting, the opulence, the mannerisms stayed with me during the reading, and no doubt colored my reading." I think it did mine, too, how could it not? That theme ringing in your ears, that photography! Oxford, the very rooms EW lived in, that shot in the rain when they feel so old, the clothes on the men!

Jasper!!! Jasper and that voice.

BOY! How did you like Boy in the film?

What about Anthony Blanche??

At first I kept notes in the book when they diverged from the book but I gave up. There were too many divergences. It seemed that they went right by the book but they did not always.

The entire scene when Charles comes back from France in the strike was magic. It's just a beautiful work. First ER, "you have no military training," loved that, Gielgud was perfect, then Boy. I loved Irons there, his difficulty in saying he'd come all the way from France and his calling out to Mulcaster. Great work. Boy (Jeremy Sinden, who is now deceased) was fabulous there.

That entire scene is not in the book, is it?

The "fracas down the Commercial road?" I don't think it is because I went back and looked for that bit. The fracas is but not the introduction.

So did most of you NOT like Jeremy Irons as Charles? What's our verdict on Jeremy Irons?

I noticed (and I agree it's shot in parts, apparently they started with Sebastian at his worst and went from there, lightning his hair and darkening Charles as they went. He apparently went swimming in chlorine and it turned his hair green, which they gleefully remark on, but at one scene where Charles comes in and finds Samgrass in "solitary possession," I thought Irons looked 17 and very sweetly innocent, he's got quite a mobile face.

I really liked Anthony Andrews as Sebastian, just the tilt of his head, he did that well, I thought. I agree.

You all did not like him in the part?

And what about the guy who played Samgrass? Holy smoke what a smarmy slimy character. ."I did not harrow our hosTESS with all that."

Whoooo. That sly cut of the eyes, boy he tore that up!

Marni, that's a good point, "The thing that disappointed me was how they handled (or didn't handle) aging.."

I tend to forget the time here that has passed. Now you did not like Irons, could you see Anthony Andrews in that part?? Who_let's see this is 25 years ago but who do you think would have been a better Sebastian or Charles?

You know I just thought of this but the woman who played Girl would have looked more like Anthony Andrews than Julia did.

Good point on the extraordinary beauty or lack of it in the characters. Who WOULD make a good Sebastian? I agree Irons is not particularly beautiful but I also do like his voice. All that "extraordinary beauty" is not in the book so many times if you notice.

Wuthering Heights, got it! I've seen photos of Gielgud younger and I now recognize him, so I'm interested to see Olivier earlier on. They were both together, apparently, Olivier and Gielgud in Richard III I think I'll look that up too, I've long wanted to do Richard III here.

Mippy I can send you disks 2,3, and 4, I have two copies and can send Malryn the others if you all would like?

So you would give the Oscar to Gielgud too, but you have not SEEN Olivier!

Let's vote on Best Supporting Actor!!

Little things I liked or noticed:

Simon Jones (Bridey) who is now on TV, IMDb will give you his schedule, he was on just last week, is the ONLY actor in the entire bunch who would not have done his part differently. I do think he nailed the somewhat brainless Bridey. I loved his quirk of mouth when he was trying to "think."

But in the hunt scene if you look carefully, he's being LED on that horse as he comes up to the group smiling. And for horsemanship if that was not a double, Andrews can really ride. I expect it was a double, but he seems to mount effortlessly enough. . Also in the hunt scene when the guy on the white horse goes over the jump he lands on a hound, which yelps and then runs away (I don't know how because in slow motion it looks like he got hit twice) it's a blur in the movie, the only way you can catch it is the huntsman turns his head to see what he hit).

I think, and I'll have to look again, that most of Olivier's speech was uninterrupted, but I know he made one mistake, we'll have to look close and see if he stops and starts (change of angle, etc).

I love those commentaries that are in the new DVD's, they really give you a feel for the craft of making the movie. Irons says in commentary on the first Disk (now lost unfortunately here) but in that long speech that Anthony Blanche had to give when the two of them dined (talk about having to memorize long speeches!!) that they had pinned to Blanche's TIE instructions on what Charles was supposed to do when Blanche got to point X or point Y in his speech: reach for the roll and butter knife, etc. At one point he remarks, now you can see me reading from the list. It's interesting.

Talking about props, when Charles arrives home for the Strike, Irons managed the props incredibly, he jumped from the car, had a cigarette in his hand, he had two suitcases and only two hands, it was very well done.

Geoffrey Chater, who played the guy at the Embassy when Charles went to find Sebastian, who said his wife found Sebastian "charming," which is hard to credit with his last appearances, played in the Mapp and Lucia series! He played the brother of the Countess Faraglione, who always bowed, what WAS his name. Mr Wyse, always bowing. I thought I recognized him, too and sure enough. I loved the minor cast.

And Nanny, Mona Washburne? Is that how you spell her name? She was absolutely wonderful and showed great change into confusion, she was fabulous, when Charles went back as a soldier, boy that was good acting.

And the guy who played the old barber who, wheezing, found Sebastian so amusing, HE was good. What a CAST! I liked the Scout for Irons, too.

I liked Marni mentioning what disappointed her, did anything else disappoint or surprise? I was disappointed we did not meet Beryl. From the description I hardly know what to expect, I'd have liked to have met her.

Who do you think did the best job with a minor character?

I hate it most of you have not been able to see the end!

What scene was your most memorable in the whole movie?

Did you know they shot the scenes at sea IN a real storm on the QEII? But the inside scenes were shot on a stage which did not tilt. They had a guy on a tall stand with flags and he'd lean left and they'd all lean, it was super acting.

Which do you like most, the movie or the book?

Oh, Ginny, thank you, but the on-line service has discs on the way to me, and others might need your copies first. I know you might have my snail mail address in FL, but I'm at Cape Cod for the summer, so please don't impulsively mail anything! But Thanks!

From seeing just the first part, Et Arcadia Ego, I have to say I like the book better than the movie. The mental picture I had of all the characters is so different from that in the film. Will the remainder of the film make me waver ... possibly.

Oh, GINNY. Thank you so much! I really want to see the whole of that movie.

Which do I like better, apples or oranges? I think each one is great, a marvelous experience with two distinctly different media.

Mal

Ginny, the heading is beautifully arranged. I kept putting off watching the movie. I wanted to read the whole book first. Plus, that queue at Netflix gets me in trouble. It's too easy to change and update my queue. I am going to watch the movie. Then, I will read the posts here. Please excuse my delay.

Well, upon watching part II last night (replacement DVD did run) I find I still like the book better. My second favorite actor so far in the film is one who played Cara (have to look up her name later) and I was disappointed in Laurence Olivier's performance. Not "English" enough. He isn't American, but he sounded like an American trying to sound like an ex-pat Englishman.

Malryn, I'm on my way out of town until Sunday, but if you'll quickly forward your mailing address to me (send it to bellsouth, wildblue seems to be holding my email) I'll send it right away and I'll wait for you and Hats till you get thru viewing the movie, we're not in a hurry.

Mippy so Lord Olivier was not British enough? His accent? The woman who played Cara WAS good, very strong performance, perfect for the part. Hard to imagine her married to a Hicks. hahahaa There was something Olivier said, some pronunciation of the R perhaps, how he said Beryl which I thought was veddy British, he said the D in Beryl which is not there. I don't know how they do it?

I loved the bit in the Pre Venice section where Charles and Sebastian are excitedly making plans to set out and Charles says (this is not in the book) "but I haven't any clothes," and Sebastian laughs and puts his arm around him and says , "Oh Charles," as they happily walk off. I really think Anthony Andrews, who may in fact be too old for that part, (how old WAS he?) WAS Sebastian, he was just...I may have to give him the Best Supporting Actor award instead of Olivier. hahahaa

I also thought in the first Disk (I think) where Charles first meets Sebastian and his plover's eggs and Boy and Anthony Blanche, so outr�, all of them, that when they walk thru the GATE of the Botanical Gardens, and they go arm and arm and walk off, Sebastian looks about 6 years old, it's a long shot and they spend quite a bit of time with it, but they look, from the back, the two of them, quite like children, that was another great bit of photography. I think it hinted at a childish, platonic relationship, or that's the way I took it, anyway.

That bit with the plover's eggs would have been hard for most actors to pull off successfully, I think Andrews succeeded. But what do YOU all think?

Hats, I can't wait to hear what you think, having read the book first!! If you want 2, 3, and 4, holler.

I'm going to be out of town until Sunday night, but don't let that stop you if you think of anything else you'd like to say about the movie, feel free!

Oh, I am going to fix my queue again. Oh, I can pick up a copy from Blockbuster or Hollywood Videos. That is faster. Duuuuh!

Ginny ~ you wrote a "childish, platonic relationship" implied.
I agree entirely. The film gives lots of hints that Charles and Sebastian have a non-sexual relationship.

Why does the scene with the plover eggs stick with you so much, Ginny? I didn't see anything remarkable about eating plover eggs.
In the Patrick O'Brien Aubrey series of novels, the people in England eat plover eggs routinely. No one was worried about bird population conservation in the early 19th century (in O'Brien) nor in the 20th century in this film. Could you explain your viewpoint?

Do I have to watch the DVD? I watched the whole of Brideshead Revisited eleven (11) times, including when it was played all in one day, as a special on January 1st of who knows what year. And I have recently read the book for the first time. Every word took me to a scene and I can't ever say the book is better because it is absolutely all there in the series, and it all is vivid in my mind.

All the actors were fantastic. Cara is Stephane Audran, who is the main actress in The Butcher (have you ever seen that?) and in Babette's Feast where she prepares an elaborate dinner -- a banquet -- for some morose people.

I totally loved Gielgud as Charles Ryder's father. Of course he was given his lines, but to carry it through!! Oh, Ginny I surely cannot answer your questions. It's worse than being asked which child one loves most, though maybe that's easier answered --Haha.

Zulema

Zulema ~ Hi !
Of course no one has to watch the DVD. That's just the only way most of us can get the film, nowadays.
Thanks for looking up the actress who played Cara. I've been out all day and never got around to it. She was my favorite supporting actress, with Gielgud as the best supporting actor. He was perfect!

I didn't have to look her up. These days the actresses all look alike to me in the States, but she is special. The whole series was so special. I have a good friend who had a baby in the early 80's and named her Julia.

I'm coming at the DVD from the opposite direction from Zulema. When I saw the TV series back in the 80s, I had already read the book twice, and liked it very much. For me, the movie was a superb example of visualising something I already liked, almost perfectly cast and extremely faithful to the book. That means I liked the book better, but liked the movie a lot too.

I'm having supply problems, but have already watched the first disc, confirming my memory of how good it is. Disc 2 is in hand; I'll start on it tonight. Disc 3 comes tomorrow (probably) and disc 4 the second day after I get a disc back. I'll comment further after watching more, but don't know if I'll catch up to you before the end.

Neither my Blockbuster or Hollywood videos carries Brideshead Revisited. I have it on my queue. Will receive it by next week, the first one.

I would have loved to join you guys in this discussion but could not get hold of the DVD's. I would not buy them ( too expensive) but I am determined to hire them sometime from somewhere! My local video/DVD store said they would look for them and buy them in. Maybe next time I go up they will have them.

Carolyn

Ginny - Such a marvelous discussion!! I've just caught up on all the great posts by everybody and am bowled over with admiration. Do you realize, Ginny, that you've actually produced a fabulous companion to the book? You should collect it together and publish it!

I've finished the book and watched the film - love them both. My favorite characters in the film are Sebastian and Anthony. Bridey is perfect - couldn't have been done any other way. Julia should have looked more like Sebastian to be true to the book but I don't know how they could have done that. I'm really happy with the whole cast though and the settings were just fabulous.

As far as Charles being converted at the end - I really don't know - I think it was more of a philosophical than a religious conversion - the laying to rest of the past and a new serenity going into the future. Maybe!!!

Joan Roberts: I agree with you regarding Charles' state of mind at the end. I think that by 'revisiting' Brideshead he has at last grown up and put those chapters of his life aside. He is finished with living vicariously through the Marchmains, has come to terms with the part he played in the drama, realises he has his own life to lead and so can now go on. The continuity of faith expressed by the relit candle in the old chapel is only part of his journey to self realisation.

ZULEMA!! Joan R!! Welcome, welcome! I'm in danger of being blasted off the world by storms but I'll be BAAAAACK!!!!

Hats, not to worry, we'll extend this discussion as long as we need, much to say!! I particularly want to hear, since you have not seen the movie but DID read the book, your reactions.

But hist! Those of you who do NOT see a conversion in Charles at the end, tell us this:

Does the film seem to support the idea of conversion OR not? What do you think? Compared, if you have read the book, TO the book?

??

??

No any version of Brideshead is a good one, it need not be the new remaster!

What about the relationship between Charles and Sebastian? What does the film seem to say about it?

Carolyn, I'd send you the other set but they would not play on your DVD player, I'm sorry you can't get it!!

Malryn, I just got your email today so will do something frantic tomorrow,

more when I can type without thunder accompaniment!

Oh, I put a message in the wrong place. I think my post is under the Brideshead book discusion.

The one who converted was Evelyn Waugh. He became a Roman Catholic in real life, but his Charles does not, not even philosophically, I don't think. The candle I see for remembrance, and he does see everything from the perspective of the war and the dissolution of so much that had seemed solid, and his own failures.

So, yes, there is a philosophical aspect of his experience (and the convenient coincidence of the place) but it is not a conversion.

BTW, when I was in the UK in 1983 I spent a few days driving around Yorkshire looking for Castle Howard and finally found it. I simply couldn't not go there, and as one drives up and when one leaves the view of the castle -- later through the trees --is just as we see it in the film.

Zulema

Hats, that's ok, I hope it comes soon.

Zulema, when we read the book, we got into some of Waugh's thoughts on what it was about and Waugh said something like (here it is finally)...writing to his literary agent A. D. Peters:

"I hope the last conversation with Cordelia gives the theological clue. The whole thing is steeped in theology, but I begin to agree that the theologians won't recognise it."

That's in several sources including Wikipedia (I know, I know). The "ancient words newly learned" of prayer that Charles says in the Brideshead Catholic chapel at the end of the book seem to suggest along with Hooper's remark about "that's more in your line than mine,? [speaking of Catholicism] seem to bear a conversion to Catholicism out. What else could the words be? It's pretty strong in the book. Or so I thought. Yet others did not. Makes for a super discussion, this book. And perhaps, the movie. Did he or didn't he?

Now you and Gum and Joan R think not! I wish we could be leaving the movie together and talking about this!!!!! THE BEST kind of movie discussion!!!

I am interested that you all didn't see it in the movie, I am not sure I did, either. The movie may have taken another tack, I mean after all, it's a creation of its own, or it MAY not be clear there. Or even there. What do you all think, those of you who have seen the end?

We had some discussion on that in the book discussion, too, and some disagreement. I'll watch Part 4 again (I can never get enough of Olivier) and see if they sort of leave it remembrance, rather than a religious conversion. A lot will hinge on the narration of Jeremy Irons.

I would LOVE to see Castle Howard, in fact it's on my new list hahahaa I am coming back thru Heathrow and Gatwick in July and had considered trying to extend it long enough to see the house where Remains of the Day was filmed, out of Bath, and Fishbourne Palace where we've been corresponding because of some Latin classes with the Director, AND Castle Howard, even tho it's out of York, especially this year because of the 25th Anniversary celebrations there, but I can't. I love England. They have a bus I believe now from York to Castle Howard AND to the one of Remains of the Day.

Waugh was right, the great houses are beset by DayTrippers. I love it!!! Imagine that wonderful drive in person!!!! Did you go inside?

And you DROVE in England!! hahaha I think everyone from the US who drives there should get a medal or THEY should for putting up with us. hahahaa We drove once for a week's stay on the West coast of Cornwall, and then up to Hadrian's Wall in the north as I had a friend in Carlisle whom we visited and it was incredible. We had to actually BACK out of Vindolanda probably a mile or more because the oncoming German car would not yield and there was no room at all for two cars on the road. So romantic, wonderful country.

Yesterday as I was going to bed here on ESPN was the Oxford versus Cambridge big boat race, do they call it sculling? on the Thames, full of Blues, rowers who had won before, I think that's what they called them. It was fascinating. I could not stay up long enough to see who won (it must have been time delayed) but it was really interesting.

Ginny, my movie came. I loved seeing Oxford. I am in awe of its beauty and size. It's like a world unto itself. It's a long movie. I might just settle for having read Waugh's book which I truly loved.

ISN'T it beautiful, Hats? Almost dream like. Not easy to do, even 25 years ago, capture a dream in film. Sort of the visual representation of the book. Did you notice how much they quote the book? In some places at the last it's almost verbatim, that was really a masterpiece of filmmaking.

I am interested in the new movie in 2008, which of course will not be 11 hours long. What they choose to show, what tack they take, what angles they express, how true to the book they are.

Do you all think the movie IS true to the book (so far as you have watched it?) I agree with Joan R that Bridey is perfect and that the Sebastian/ Julia casting aside, as look alikes, it was perfect. Even the minor cast was super.

The first disk (2 of which are now keeping themselves company here somewhere in the house) has some delicious behind the scenes commentary on it including they all became obsessed with the book, gave it as presents, first editions, carried it about with them, and it was the ACTORS who finally insisted that "religion" was missing in the movie and insisted it be inserted, if I understood that correctly. If you have the first disk, do listen and tell us again.

There is also commentary on the 2nd disk I think it is. I love when the people who created the magic talk about how they did it. Mostly you hear from the actors and not the people who filmed it or directed it. I know in the Pirates movies Jerry Bruckheimer the producer talks. I've been wondering what a producer actually DOES. The Pirates movies show the Director and the writers talking with the Producer, I wonder how accurate that is. The art of filmmaking fascinates me.

Do you think, those of you who have seen the movie and read the book, that the film is an improvement over the book or not?

Ginny yes, I remembered lines from the book as they were said in the movie. Those beautiful words written by Waugh.

Mippy, I forgot to answer your question on my comments on the plover's eggs. I was struck in that scene, not by the eggs, but by the way Sebastian greeted Charles.

Charles has an invitation to Christ Church to dinner, he's excited, so he leaves his own college (I just saw something yesterday somewhere that says his TIE is not of the college he's filmed at, Evelyn Waugh's own rooms, Hertford, but is the wrong college!) ANYWAY, Ryder, Charles' Scout is charmed, Charles is excited, he makes his way over to Christ Church (which if you've never been IN it is intimidating, he asks for directions, it's a new world, he climbs the stairs and enters to see Sebastian counting eggs, saying there are XX apiece (was it 5) and two over and he'll have them for himself. And that he thought (or something, without looking it up) that yesterday had been a dream, and then "Please don't wake me up."

That's it? That's the greeting. I thought that was odd, not the fact of the plover's eggs which always lay early for Mummy (that in itself is interesting since they are wild birds and I doubt Mummy is gathering them OR influencing them in a godlike way) but then that entire scene, the opulence of the lunch of what ARE schoolboys, amazing.

In the heading we have a still from one of the luncheons, I don't think that scene is actually in the movie, is it? Boy is on the left, Anthony in the back and Sebastian in the front reading the paper, apparently they just...I'm not sure I have been to a luncheon like that? I thought it was a revelation, maybe I don't get out too much? hahaha or enough!

Hats, yes, the writing, I agree!

Jeepers, I lost a whole post!! Here I made all these pithy replies and waited and no answer and now I see why! My whole post was apparently struck by lightening and disappeared!! Hahaha Gee whiz!

Let's try again:

Zulema, it's so good to see you again and naturally you don't have to watch all 11 DVD's, but I have not seen the Butcher and really did not know Audran or her work, but I have heard a lot about "Babette's Feast where she prepares an elaborate dinner -- a banquet -- for some morose people." That sounds like a good Netflix duo to watch, thank you!

I agree with you: "I totally loved Gielgud as Charles Ryder's father. Of course he was given his lines, but to carry it through!!"

I agree totally. Who else really could have done that. I've captured a photo of him selecting the_(it always looks like fish. Cold fish, pale fish filets, and in the book if you remember the cook was awful. Yet he kept her)_.It always looked like the same fish!

Did any of you notice the_what was the servant's name, and Gielgud saying, Hayter, I've dropped my book. Can't pick it up himself_Haiter? Hater?

Boy he was good in that part.

Pat H!!!! Welcome welcome, where are you now in the disks? Do you have the ones which explain the movie making? You were starting on Disk 2.

"For me, the movie was a superb example of visualising something I already liked, almost perfectly cast and extremely faithful to the book. That means I liked the book better, but liked the movie a lot too."

I am not sure which I like the most because I saw the movie first and the movie colored the book for me. It would do that, it's VERY strong. Which performance did you think the best?

Hats, so far, whose performance stands out the most?

Joan: "Do you realize, Ginny, that you've actually produced a fabulous companion to the book? You should collect it together and publish it!" ha! Thank you. Well we will do a Reader's Guide since there seem to be so few (none) out there, so maybe_.well there's one but it's more of a_whatever. Anyway thank you!!

"My favorite characters in the film are Sebastian and Anthony." Me too on Sebastian, I'm hooked on Gielgud and Olivier, too, and we've not even mentioned Claire Bloom except one of us disliked her limp wrested self, what did YOU think of her?

The actor who played Anthony Blanche narrates one of the behind the scenes things, that eye rolling he just threw in and the director loved it. It must have been something to STOP doing. He was good. Loved the scene where Charles comes back to England and they go to a party where the naked man walks past (I don't think that's in the book, is it?) and Anthony says I spit on you to Boy.

I liked Boy in the movie very much and it seemed that they did not hate him either, did you get that impression? I know Jeremy Irons said they held Jeremy Sinden, who played Boy and who is now deceased, in high regard.

I did think Charles in the movie was strange about Celia, his wife, I could not understand his stony behavior, I thought perhaps that might be improved somehow. He was like cardboard there.

I can't BELIEVE I lost that entire post. The way, however, my own scattered life is going I probably posted it in Pets and Other Furry Creatures. Ahahhaa

At any rate, we're on now, what strikes YOU this morning?? I loved the movie. THOSE were the days, you'd sit anxiously at your television every whatever night of the week for 11 weeks and watch it unfold. Sort of like reading a Dickens installment. I can't imagine how great that was, like Upstairs Downstairs, which it somewhat resembles, without the Downstairs.

I think we all get a small vicarious thrill being invited IN to the Great Houses of the beautiful people. If we ADMIT it, we're curious, it has that sort of quality.

Ok here we are, leaving the theater, trying to find the car, car keys out, so far we're batting 4:1 on the Conversion scene, 4 I think against there having been a religious conversion of Charles at the very end (or is it 3?) one for.

What are YOUR thoughts if you saw the movie?? One piece of left over Mike n Ikes for your thoughts? On that or any other thing you'd care to articulate!

You managed to pick up on everything everyone said, typical of what you can do!

I'll try. The conversion question requires one to go outside the book and the movie to Waugh himself. And I do think he left it hanging because he was tempted to have Charles convert, as he himself did, but thought it would be a better book if he left it to the reader's imagination, still hovering and may be for ever hovering. That is my view.

The strange non-greeting by Sebastian at Christ Church is to me typical of how Sebastian greets those he feels closest to. He does that in Morocco also. It's being non-challant taken to extremes, and it is also a commonplace in British novels: Someone comes calling and they are not greeted, but the visitee continues with what he or she is doing and says something related to it, gardening, an irrelevant question, etc. And on one occasion I stayed at Christ College, Cambridge, in the dorms, for a conference, and was amazed at the food. I found out that that was the regular food served the students

Of course I visited Castle Howard, all of it that was visitable, and there were no hordes of people then. Castle Howard itself, before the film, was not a happy place historically. This is were Catherine Howard came from and also the early poets who suffered a bad end. The Howards were Catholic and, like Arundel in the South, these are not happy stately homes. That the producers chose Castle Howard was another connection for me between the book and the series and the place. Perhaps it was just coincidence, but it added dimensions to the background. On the other hand, even by 1983, Castle Howard had been turned into a tourist destination. They offered wine and many other things in the shop under their own label, and it was done very overtly. After the end of the tour, one had to pass through all the aisles of the shop, sort of like what some department stores make one do, before leaving.

And for one last answer, I have driven every time I have been in Europe, and 1983 was my first time. Now it's over because they won't rent a car to me. I'm too old. You can drive, but not rent a car. I could never have seen so much of England, and some of Scotland and Wales, had I not been driving. Sic transit!

Zulema

Just returned from a 2-day trip and trying to catch up ...

I'm a convert ...no, not in religion ...

But in agreeing with those who think the film is better than the book, in some ways.

My favorite so far? The hunting scene with the dogs and horses and "pink" riding coats! Wow! There's no way that I could visualize that reading the book. Did you notice how some (stunt men, no doubt) fell off their horses at the jumps? Wow! And then Sebastian refusing to dress properly, even after Cordelia nags him. I love it.
This evening I plan to watch Disc 3; waiting for Disc 4 to arrive in the mail.

Dear Ginny:

The DVD arrived just now. How can I ever thank you? What a wonderful time Sir Laurence and I will have tonight!

Love,

Mal

I'm behind, have finished only disc 1. However, Evelyn Waugh's Scoop has arrived fromt the library and it is funny. What a difference in his writing. He really skewers the Brits. It is almost like the Marx Bros. An example: The publisher of the paper, Sir Copper, insists that the editor hire a writer recommended by a society matron ( think Diana) named Boot. Well, lo and behold the editor finds ont the staff already the author of a column on nature named Boot, so sends him off as a foreign correspondent to cover the latest conflagration in Africa. Needless to say it is the wrong Boot. Very funny.

What a stunning contrast between youth and old age the beginning and ending of this film are. It was amazing to watch Lord Marchmain grow weaker every day, every minute.

His crossing himself seemed like ingrained behavior to me, more than a sign. So, too, did Charles's behavior in the chapel. I don't think Charles was converted to anything more than what he already believed because of early religious training. I've thought about this a lot, in relation to myself and others. I'm a skeptic when it comes to religious mysteries, but deep down I am what I was when I was an impressionable slate of a child in Sunday School.

My one remaining son is a converted Catholic. At Mass with him it is hard not to want to convert from whatever I have become to Catholicism. The Catholic religion to me has seemed like a parent somehow, loving and kind; yet a firm disciplinarian when there's a need for punishment. My mystic feelings about religion changed when I married a scientist, who helped me learn to think with another part of my brain. This is how I see Charles, really, with a foundation in religion and a skepticism that keeps him away. Yet he is tempted, first one way; then the other. That seems clear throughout the book and the film.

I interpreted the end, when he saw the flame. as a vision of hope rather than a conversion. That was pointed out by the remark one of his soldiers made about his looking so happy, for a change.

This journey through the book, "Brideshead Revisited," and the film, has been a grand one, not soon to be forgotten. Thanks to all of you who have shared the trip with me, and to GINNY for her always thoughtful and gracious leadership.

Mal

You have said it all!

Zulema

HO~!! I have no earthly idea what is wrong with my subscriptions, now don't all run away, I thought you had nothing to say! Hahahaha

Malryn, I'm glad you got the movie, and I love your perspectives. You capture the longing there for Catholicism so well. I liked your thoughts on temptation and I appreciate your kind words.

Now you also don't see a conversion at the end! that's 5:1 with me the one! Hahahaa

Which actor do you think of all of the performances was the best??!!?? Did you like Claire Bloom's performance?

Jackie, I've ordered the book, what do you think so far? How do you feel about "Sebastian " and "Charles" as actors, do you think they are too old for the parts? How about Claire Bloom's version of Teresa Marchmain?

Does anybody know how old she was when she did that part?

Sue, Oh good point on Sebastian's strange greeting at the first luncheon AND at Morocco. I missed that. And I did not know that was normal, so that's sort of authentic then of the movie.

You stayed at Christ Church!! I did too, I took a course, was yours Cambridge or Oxford? Where were your rooms?

I did NOT know the Howards were Catholic originally but I should have, thank you for pointing that out!

My understanding of the choice of Castle Howard for the production came from it being felt that it was the model for Waugh's book, so that adds a lot to it!

Is Catherine Howard the one whose ghost supposedly screams at Hampton Court in the hall there?

I've not driven in the UK, I refused as I have some problems with directional abilities (as you now know) haahah but one of our group did and we had THE most marvelous time!!! Memories to last a life time.

I have driven on the continent tho, in France and Germany and Italy and Switzerland.

I'd love to see Castle Howard. I wish I could change my return flight this time from London. In several ways I wish it. Hahahaa

What other thoughts do you all have? Do you think it's stood the test of time? Why would anybody make a new one, I can't imagine. What do they hope to improve on?

What would YOU have improved on?

I shall check this discussion manually from now on, sorry to have missed such fine posts, I thought nobody was saying anything.

Ginny: The DVD's are just brillant. I can't thank you enough for reminding me about them (as well as hosting the book discussion) I'd forgotten how truly great the series was. Arguably one of the best ever adaptations though it is so true to the book one can hardly call it an adaptation.

Have now watched Disc 2 including the wonderful commentary by Anthony Andrews covering Episode 4. Interesting that the production was able to go ahead with all the problems that arose and that they were able to take enough time to get it right. Andrews comments on how the short silences interspersed with the dialogue are there to tell us so much more and to my mind they really do enhance the scenes. They give one time to absorb what has been said and to consider the ramifications. Just brillant (or did I say that before)

I don't expect I'll get to view the rest in time for this chatter but I'm hoping...

Christ Church is Oxford, I think.. Where I stayed was Christ College, Cambridge, Milton's College and it was for a symposium on Milton. I think Catherine Howard is the ghost. She was Henry's 5th wife and was executed "for adultery."

To me, everyone was perfect in their roles, I only found out much later that Anthony Andrews was really so much older than he seemed here and Diana Quick was almost immediately afterwards cast as the "mother" character in other British productions.

Zulema

Gum, I totally agree, brilliant! It's like in some ways watching the book come to life tho there are differences. The scene about the Strike is different, for instance, boy didn't Gielgud tear up the sceen in that one! 'You have no military training_." Love him in that.

I'm going to look and see who won what for that movie, I don't know how they picked anybody to nominate.

I missed that in Andrew's commentary! I must go back and listen to the spaces thing!! Good for you bringing that out!

Don't worry about having the time to watch, we'll just keep it here for a while. I mean, after all, it IS 11 hours. Not your normal movie viewing experience tho Pirates III came close last Saturday.

I can drown in this one, just drown, it's so deliciously acted and presented it's like a bath, can't get enough of it.

Zulema, ah I should have read that twice, I thought I saw Christ Church and jumped. I enjoyed my stay there so much. Before I went Oxford and Cambridge were just stops on a tour bus, and since I had done them both twice that way they blended in a confusing way, but it's amazing how staying at one has left indelible memories. And I thought the movie captured somehow that aura.

I went over to Magdalen College while at Oxford because of CS Lewis and one of our readers wanted a photo and it also is magical. Just walking thru those corridors, the whole thing is a magic place, Oxford is, to me.

Our class was in a room directly on the quad. To anybody else it would be a board room. Refreshments on the sideboard, paneled room, grandfather clock, huge board table, it was magic, the entire thing. Concerts in the crypt, it was wonderful. I tried to get some others from SN to go but nobody else did. Since then several have gone at different times, I wish we could all have shared that.

How old WAS Anthony Andrews at the time? He does look_well I guess none of them looked like school boys, really. It's hard to look young and then have to age, that Phoebe Nicholls or however you spell her name (Cordelia) was flat out incredible in the aging department.

I did notice in the filming of the "pink" coats in the hunting scenes that the lights of the cameras seemed to make them_shine? Or become invisible? One minor flaw.

Do you all know IMDb? It's the International Movie Data Base, I think that's what that stands for. It's got no end of trivia about movies, I'll go get some of the more delicious bits while you're all watching.

I want to see who won what. I know Olivier said when he saw Gielgud's bit, "Johnny has all the good parts." Did you all think so? Who do you think had the best role between the two men and could you pick between them?

I can't see Olivier in the part of Charles' father, he looks too Byronic, I think the casting was perfect!

And in some places you could speak along with the characters simply by reading along in the book. I am still astounded at Olivier's speech at the dinner about Ranieri's!

I've got it memorized. We dined....at Ranieri's....

I mean when you read that in the book, it does not have Olivier's pauses and the spin he put on it, the....particular way he interprets those lines!

Ok here from BAFTA (the British Academy Awards) are the awards for acting Brideshead Revisited 1981 won: ( From IMDb Looks like they recognized more than one performance in different areas:

Best Actor: Anthony Andrews

Best Actor John Gielgud

Best Actor Jeremy Irons

Best Actress Claire Bloom

The Emmys:

Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Limited Series or a Special Laurence Olivier

Now Anthony Andrews, Jeremy Irons and John Gielgud also nominated in different categories here, as well as Claire Bloom.

The Golden Globes:

Best Performance by an Actor in a Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for TV:
Anthony Andrews

And the director, etc., etc.

As a MOVIE it does not seem to have won a LOT of awards, but that may be because it is sooo long.

I think I agree with Andrews getting so many awards. I think with awards you have to show growth or change of character, I'm not sure Charles showed a lot?

Here is some trivia from IMDb, they always have the most interesting tidbits:

Castle Howard, which was used as the location for much of the series, was owned by George Howard - who at the time was the chairman of the BBC, a rival of the network airing the series. He nonetheless agreed not only to allow his castle to be used, but served as a technical advisor and supplied many of the props for the production, while also advising the filmmakers in ways to avoid incorrect portrayals of life in such an environment.

The ship in the storm scenes is actually unused footage from The Poseidon Adventure (1972). [

[me: Actually a lot of the scenes on deck were shot on the QEII IN a storm.]

When filming the [interior] scenes during the storm on board the ocean liner, the small cabin sets were made to rock from side to side, but this could not be done for the much larger dining room set, so producer Derek Granger stood on a chair behind the camera and waved a stick from side to side to indicate to the cast which way to lurch and sway.

[They tell about this in the commentary too]

Laurence Olivier was offered his choice of roles in either Lord Marchmain or Edward Ryder (which ultimately went to John Gielgud). Olivier picked Lord Marchmain, but later regretted the choice as he realized that Edward Ryder was actually a much stronger role.

Another thing in the commentary which I unfortunately no longer have, since I lost Disk 1 somewhere is that the actors comment the first scenes shot were those in_is it Carthage or Tangiers? And that the producers or director decided that Sebastian needed to be more blonde and Charles more dark so they kept dying their hair and Anthony Andrews went swimming and the chlorine turned it greenish, so Jeremy Irons will point out the green, saying there's the green hair hahahaa.

I loved the bloopers. One shows Anthony Andrews and Jeremy Irons in a boat. They are both standing up, Charles has the long oar. And Andrews begins to throw a temper fit, throws down his hat and says something like I'm sorry I can't stand it any more, I just can't stand it. And Jeremy Irons looks at the camera (much like Charles would, I think a lot of both men is in their parts because Andrews had a lot of Sebastian's mannerisms in the 2006 Rosemary and Thyme appearance) but anyway he pitches a temper fit and it turns out it's Jeremy Irons birthday and he sprays him with champagne and turns him overboard and Irons gasps, "it's not in the contract or it's in the contract" that he's not supposed to have that happen apparently.

I love hearing and seeing HOW the movie was made. I particularly love the Pirates DVD's for that reason. It's fascinating to see all the creativity which goes into making a movie. I saw them filiming Vanity Fair with Ella Gibbons of our own books years ago at Hampton Court, it's just magic and a LOT of work, you would not think so, but it is.

Ginny ~ Thanks for all the detail from the Internet Movie Data Base!
Finally, finally, the finale! Disk 4 came in the mail this morning.
I know where I'm going to be glued all evening!

Big Thanks for keeping this discussion room open for those of us who were waiting to
receive the entire set from rental services!

I loved the QE II sequences ... almost felt sea-sick watching!
Isn't that actress playing Charles' wife a piece of work! "should I put on my night-face, Charles?" Didn't notice the implications reading the book. Oh, my ... what a strange, disfunctional marriage they had.

Night face, yeah, that WAS strange, and he's so wooden in that part. It was hard for me to figure out where he was coming from but I think in the BOOK in the Prologue it's explained about a bad marriage or a marriage gone sour. SHE looks more like Sebastian than "Julia" did.

Diana Quick doesn't look like anybody in the cast, really.

Also in the movie I thought it was quite striking that Bridey had become almost a husband or took a husbandly role to Lady Marchmain in most public doings.

I also puzzled over the seating at the dinner table that night where Bridey sort of makes for the foot of the table head spot, and sort of hesitates and then takes the side. I am not sure what the director intended there. Freudian what not maybe.

We talked about Stephanie Audran (Cara) in the book discussion and last night I happened on a French movie something about ".....The Bourgeoisie" and there she was, looking very chic again.

I didn't get to see much of it.

So now that you've finished Disk 4 Mippy what do you think??!!??

What happened is she had an affair and we find out on the ship when she wants everything to be back to normal and wants Charles to forget about it. No wonder he acts wooden toward her, especially when she asks him why.

Zulema

I agree but I think in the book there was more explanation and emotion, I thought Irons sort of fell short a little there. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, tho it's perfectly clear.

It's obvious she's had an affair and that Caroline is not his and (the times of his being away are not clear to me, particularly their Christmasses) that's why he said why did you name her that? Feminine form of Charles.

And of course he's having an affair, too.

There doesn't seem to have been a lot of passionate emotion in that marriage, at least on his part. Figuring her out would take a lot longer.

You are right about this marriage. I think Charles must have fallen into it by her being Boy Mulcaster's sister, but it is not really in the book and it's like speculating on Lady Macbeth's children. I don't mean we shouldn't. But the affair with Julia had not begun in earnest during that scene, though in his mind (or soul) he was there already.

Oh good point, I was unsure, actually, on the time sequence there also, but I truly thought Irons was wooden in this part, tho realistically how could he be otherwise? We get no hint of any anger particularly or resentment, just a strange.... You're right we don't know how he fell into it, I think Julia asks him and he says physical attraction, and then the scene with Boy at the pool table, where Boy says mind you she seems quite super, right up your alley or something, still he's nice about it.

I can't understand WHY in the book everybody dislikes Boy, it's perfectly clear in the movie at least as portrayed by Jeremy Sinden, he's very likeable and you can see the affection for him in the others. Except for Anthony "I spit on you" Blanche.

And at the end Anthony is gone, Sebastian is gone tho talked about, Lord Marchmain is gone, Cordelia and Julia are in Carthage, and only Charles is left. We don't see Edward Ryder again either.

I thiought the book's bit about Uncle Boy was very strange, the little John John advising him on his latest girlfriend bought off, very odd. Thankfully left out of the movie.