Yahoo we can begin very soon - Next Monday to be exact - if you don't have your book there is just enough time to order it or stop in and buy one at your favorite book store.

This is a longer book then the previous two books but I am really looking forward to the adventure and best of all getting together with all of you that are known to have owls in your bonnets.

Have you got your book yet? Have ya, Have ya, have ya. If not send your owl out to pick it up. I love the way it starts - she weaves the other stories in without making anyone feel they would have had to read them in order to read this one.

Barbara--I love that feature too. We're gently reminded of the story so far, rather than being thrown in the middle.

Today I was in Albuquerque taking some old books in to the used book store (you can actually take your old books in and use the store credit to buy new books at the affiliated new book store). They had painted the windows to announce a party the night of July 7; at midnight they will open the cases of Harry Potter 4.

Someone ahead of me in line said, "At least it's getting the kids reading." I have to agree with that, but I asked why she was so negative about it--I myself think the series is marvelous, independent of whether it is for young readers. She said that she was enjoying it too. I thought this was a little strange but didn't say anything.

But I have my book! Onward!

Ellen Welcome glad you will be with us - yes, it is strange isn't it the various reactions to this character or series of books. It's as if no one ever read fantasy stories before Rawlings created Hogwarts and peopled it with youngsters.

Well the Blue Knight is transporting me to sleep tonight and wouldn't I just love to wake up in London or for that matter even Wales would do.

Well, it is June 27th and Where is everyone?

I thought, by the end of this book, that the professor Harry likes the least, the one who would seem to despise Harry, is actually Not an Evil person. And I believe the Headmaster Knows he is not an Evil person. And I think he will do something to help Harry before the series is over.

That Game is my favorite thing! I think the 4th book is made up mostly of that! Can hardly wait! I have one on order.

MaryPage I will email those that participated in the earlier reads and see if we can intice them to continue. With the new book coming out shortly I sure would like to get a good head start on this one and than maybe go right into the new one.

Still have lots of links to gather and hope I can learn how to create a button that will lead to a seperate page with all the links. Last count I think there are now almost 80 Harry Potter sites on the net. There is also a newsletter that is fun that I also want to share. I promise I promise to get all this going before the week is over and hopefully the lions share on Wednesday. I am dependent on some help so that could slow me down.

I'm only up to Harry in the Couldren Inn with the admonishment not to venture into moggle London.

I LOVE the Knight Bus! I think at least partly because it illustrates one of my favorite ideas of these books: that even magic isn't "magic," in that the world is still not perfect. Harry has an unusual ability but he still has to go to school and deal with Real Life.

I've read the book once already and am re-reading for the discussion. I find that I tend to hurry through the first time--these books are really quite suspenseful. I'm with Mary Page on her opinion. Can't remember offhand what it was in this book that made me think that. I still think the Malfoys are the main bad people though (Malfoy--doesn't it translate to "evil doer" or something like in Latin?)

Speaking of websites, I was in Amazon's discussion boards the other day. Apparently Amazon had enough of the kids who were meeting there to discuss Harry Potter and deleted the board. I only went into it once--they were flaming each other, swearing, discussing who liked whom, and using symbols for words (such as 2 for to, r for are, etc.). I'm sorry to say that I think the last one was the worst of their wrongs! But then, I spent a year trying to eradicate "alot" from the writings of eighth graders.

They are talking to Tim Roth to play Snape. He would be great! He does villians extremely well. Can you wait for the movie? NOT!

I liked the Knight Bus too. What a concept. I always enjoy the shopping trips. And what about the Monster Book of Monsters? I am surprised there isn't one by that title (not that it would bite.) What fun! Deb

Finally got in - my internet carrier "Mindspring" was shut down in Texas for the day.

Glad to see you found us Deb -- read somewhere that this is similar to all books of fantasy. The flow being from the real world -- to some carrier that takes you to the other world -- the fantasy world is enlarged upon and than back to the real world again.

But, they were quick to point out it wasn't like many fantasy stories either, in that Harry continues to act human even in his school at Hogwarts. He still has his fears and reasons to avoid truth etc. I think he was showing some awe and concern when the 'Blue Knight' knocked down garbage cans and the like.

Now I didn't pick up Harry's scare of something in the dark behind the building before the bus arrived as being significant but, it looks like it is an important bit of happening.

Ellen, it seems like the children are making up with their own language, almost like a secret code doesn't it. Hopefuly just by reading and posting they will be starting a journey that, when they are older, will continue into the wonders of literature. All we can do is hope. There is so much to learn about the language it's amazing they prefer to develop their own symbols.

Interesting that the beds in the Blue Knight were four posters as were the five beds in Harry's dorm at Hogwarts. That got my curiosity up. From my trusty An illustrated Encyclopaedia of Traditional Symbols by JC Cooper here goes.

Four symbolizes: wholeness, totalitly, completion, the earth, order, the rational, justice, the static as opposed to the circular and dynamic.

Four pillars support the vault of heaven, the four canopic jars placed round the dead at the four corners are guarded by the four sons of Horus who are associated with the cardinal points. Four dwarfs support the world.

There are four cardinal points, seasons, winds from which One Spirit is to come, sides of a square, arms of a cross, sacred mountains, quarters of the moon, Gospels, cheif devils, cardinal virtues--prudence, fortitude, justice, temperance.

Five: The human microcosm, the number of man forming a pentagon, with outstretched arms and legs. The symbol of perfection and the power of the circle. It is also the Godhead as the Central Creator of the four great forces.

Five senses, five pointed leaves,e.g. rose, lily vine representing the microcosm. The five pointed star depicts integral individuality and it also represents spiritual aspiration and education when it point upwards. The five pillars of religion, five wounds of Christ.

Blue is Truth, the intellect, revelation, wisdom, loyalty, prudance, peace. The void or primordial and infinite space that can contain everything. A lunar color, a bard or poet, eternity, faith, attributes of Zeus/Jupiter and Hera/Juno and Venus.

A Knight symbolizes the spirit guiding the body. his quest represents the journey of the soul through the world with its, temptations, obstacles, trials, testing and proving of character and development towards perfection.

Wow, looks to me like Harry is being transported to his fantasy world as a test or quest for his wholeness based in truth, intellect, loyalty, wisdom and peace with himself.

Wow, Barbara, where did you learn all that? That was pretty amazing!

Well we really need to get going on this book don't we with all the fun announcing Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire! My daughter was on the phone last night telling me that one of the bookstores in Greenville SC wherer they live is having a giant party with prizes of a free book for a look alike contests on July 7, from 9:00 at night till 12:05 when the book goes on sale!

From a pole on one of the many Potter sites the question is asked--WHO IS YOUR FAVORITE HOGWARTS TEACHER??

Mcgonall 41%
Lupin 34%
Snape 16%
Hagrid 4%
Twealney 3%
Flitwick 1%
Sprout .8%

Here is a trivia question: What are the money types used in the magic world?

Deb I have this great book on symbols that I always turn to when I am reading, especially when I am reading Fantasy. No not so brilliant just do lots of research and learns tons in the process.

My favorite teacher is Hagrid. How about the rest of you? Hagrid is gentle and kind and simple yet wise in a way. But not always!

Hi Deb and Barbara! I've called my library. The Prisoner of Azkaban is checked out to a young boy (Hurray! I love to see children reading). When he returns it, they will call me and hold it until I get up there. I read it earlier when we were still discussing The Chamber of Secrets, so I'll probably lurk until I can reread it, but if something occurs to me, I'll post. Sue

Susan! So glad to see your post! Yes, it is heartening to see these young readers excited about a book isn't it.

Hi, everybody! Yesterday morning I saw a talk J.K. Rowling gave when Azkaban came out. She was much younger than I thought she was; she also had a Monica Lewinsky haircut, but hers was blonde. Anyway, she was a very engaging speaker and she had a great sense of humor. Among the high points of her talk:

There is more to learn about Harry's mother. We are not going to learn it in Book 4.

She pronounced Hermione, and then said that perhaps she should have called the character "Jane." She said the best pronunciation she'd ever heard was "Hermy-won." She nearly told the person that was absolutely right, but then pictured someone naming their child that. She chose it because she thought it was a name two yuppies would give their child--exotic, and no one would know how to pronounce it. She also said that she was like Hermione as a child.

The Harry Potter books were written for herself, both as an adult and a child. She said this in answer to a question about who she intended the audience to be for these books.

When asked if she would ever write more than seven books, she said that she wouldn't unless ten years after writing book seven she really needed to write book eight.

In all, I thought that she was charming. She was very funny, and she said that she liked the people who had to stand on the balcony better than she liked those who had chairs in front of her (those on the balcony were mostly children).

Doesn't have much to do with the book itself, though. My favorite teacher is the dead history of magic professor (I can't remember his name). I can picture myself going off to teach class and not realizing I was dead!

Magic money: bronze knuts, silver sickles, and gold galleons. What is a knut, anyway?

I have seen the author do quite a few interviews now, and I too am charmed by her. Over the weekend a man, I believe it may have been her publisher or a representative of her publishing house, was on tv and he said she is Completely unaffected by all this and that she really did write the books just because she "wanted" to. He also said she is not actually Writing the screen play for the movie of the first book, but that she is working quite closely with the writers and Time Warner is giving her a lot of say. Boy, I hope so! I sure do NOT want them to make a hash of this book!

A couple of years ago I read that the author had been a welfare mother after a divorce, and just suddenly got the idea for the first book while riding on a train. Welfare no more! Deb

That is what I understand, as well, Deb.

I also remember reading that she was on relief when she wrote the Harry Potter book and that it was to keep from going crazy while she was unemployed as well as to work some of her anger and happenings out.

Well this is the latest explenation that I had found on several of the English sites. I don't know now what to believe but this version may be more fitting the breadth of references to French culture and French names in the story. I do not know much about Portugal to know what influences there may be in the stories that can be associated with that part of Europe.

J.K. (Joanne Kathleen) Rowling grew up in Chestow, Gwent. She has always wanted to be a writer and wrote her first "Book" at the age of six. - A Story about a rabbit named Rabbit. As a post-graduate, she moved to London to wlrk at Amnesty International doing reasarch into human rights abuses in Francophone Africa. She started writing Harry Potter after the idea occurred to her on an interminable Manchester-Longdon train journey. She wrote during her lunch times in caf*s Bookstore - Baily's and pubs and prayed that none of her Crossroads workmates would have birthdays so then she'd have to go to the pub with them instead. Jo then moved to Portugal to teach English as a GA foreign Language, married, became pregnant, kept writing in caf*s. By the time her daughter was born her book was one-quarter finished. She now lives in Edinburgh and continues to write in caf*s.

Looks like Ellen has the names for all the magic money down.

Not much action on this book and the new one is coming out. I think we waited too long.

Does anyone else like the third book best so far? I do.

I like this one best, too. I haven't disliked any of the others, although the second book had me on the edge of my seat as well as outraged that school was ruined for Harry just like home was.

Maybe you guys have already had this discussion, but why do the Dursleys act the way they do? Do they really hate Harry or are they trying to protect him?

are just wicked, ignorant Muggles who don't understand or accept differences in others. They are frightened of what they can't understand and they are mean to Harry because of this. Sort of Wizardism, you know, like sexism and racism. Surely you've known or heard about people with those attitudes. Sue

Oh, yes, Sue, I'm afraid I have. I did my student teaching in the town right next to South Boston (not in the seventies, in the mid-1990s). And I used to work for someone who got up from the desk and watched me walk by every time I went to the photocopier.

I suppose my line of thinking on this was that the Dursleys seem to think they can change Harry. Various "isms" don't seek to change their targets but to destroy them. Although I suppose it would have destroyed Harry not to be allowed to return to school. In any case, I seem to remember Uncle Vernon saying that they'd get rid of all that nonsense; the Dursleys would not tolerate any of Harry's weird behavior or friends.

Aside from the fact his family were afraid of (did not understand) wizardry, and one can forgive them for this, they were cruel to Harry from infancy. Living in an under-the-stairs closet! Bedrooms free upstairs! Less food and treats. NEVER taken on most of their excursions. Never a birthday party, while their son had huge ones. Oh, the sad abuse goes on and on!

They Cannot be forgiven!

I think the only reason they kept him at all was a sense of how they would look in the public eye If They Did Not! It was: Look at wonderful, kind, giving us! We took in our sister's poor little orphan!

Then they did the very Minimum necessary to keep him alive and functioning until they could wash their hands of him.

Barbara,

I thought you might like to see this URL...

Harry Potter.

Thanks Pat what a great site--

Interesting how we can all see something different when we read a story. MaryPage sees the Dursley's as none foregiveable-- Ellen as trying to change Harry with little hope of success-- Sue sees them as frieghtened of what they do not know or understand--

Deb, I guess we better get cracking on this one shouldn't we-- we'll all be deep into Book four and this one will become a memory.

I ended up going up to Borders, one of about 5 locations in town having an 11:00 party with the sale at 12:01. None of the dressed children looked wonderful and so I was disappointed but it was amazing to see so many. The line for the ones that had pre-ordered was longer than the line for those just buying a book. The crowd got to me and people in mass on a hot summer's night need "Eu de cologne from the dew of unicorns and sweet grasses in moonlight"... so I took a book and magazine with a cup of coffee and sat in the empty children's sections waiting for it to clear out. It was about 12:45 and the entire line that had been wrapped around the store was empty-- I bought my book-- chatting with the sales girl-- they estimated they sold 500 books in the hour. The store played the tape of the book while every one waited in line and I must say this book startes very differently than the other three. I almost bought the tapes - the sound and diction on the reader's voice is terific. But even at 40% off that is still $21.

My neighbor's boy was there with his Dad. He is about 11 or 12. Most parants did not look like they were having fun but were resigned to the late hour. I was feeling so filled with excitment and smiles and of course told everyone about my Grandson Ty, winning the look alike contest held at 9:00 in the bookstore in Greenville SC. My daughter found this great hair spray that turned his blond hair black. They combed it streight up and he found a pair of specs that match the picture. Cade, age 6 and very blond, had spray dyed his hair red...he was dressed as Ron Weasly.

Ooooh! Lovely!

I am literally standing by my door waiting for my book to arrive.

We'd love to see a picture of your Harry and Ron look-a-likes. If you get one please post it in photos and give us a link here. Sue

My book came! My book came!

Priority mail. Big yellow sticker on box:

MUST be delivered July 8.

Free bookmarks. Will be busy for a while. Bye!

I hope so - she was so excited - called my on her cell - don't want to be there when that bill is opened - evidently they interviewed Ty for the 6:30 AM Greenville news. (AM In bold - this family is not known for its early rising unless we've been up all night) Ty and Cade were each in the top 10 for the overall prize - here is where a great understanding of politics is learned at a young age - they were down to two, Ty and another - the judges left the winning up to the crowd response and because of many family memebers present loudly cheering and Ty not have grandmother, aunts or uncles, cousins living in SC the crowd was not enough to off set what family enthusiasm can do. So many came up saying Ty should have won but than asked if he would pose next to their child or with them for a photo, he was even asked to autograph a few books hehehe seems he never would let on what his name was other than "he was Harry Potter" hahahah children!

Marypage - YES! we were posting at the same time and now I see The Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire - has come! Will you be living on cold cereal for awhile, not wanting to take time from reading to cook? Enjoy!

You bet! And can hardly wait to see the pictures of your grandchildren.

What a fun report of them for you to cherish in your heart.

And I salute that cheeky grandson of yours! Harry Potter, indeed! Why NOT!

News Flash Harry Potter: Sams Club is selling the new Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire for only $12. Barnes and Noble in Collage Station is sold out of the new Harry Potter book.

Federal Express Celebrates Surpassed Expectations

There was much hoopala about Fed Ex not being able to deliver all the Harry Potter books they were contracted to deliver. Yesterday, Saturday was the Biggest day in the history of Fed. Ex. Bigger than any Saturday before Christmas, which has been up to now, their biggest day with the largest number of small deliveries to individual homes and when they have gone the extra effort to assure all packages are delivered.

Yesterday they had a deadline of all HP books to be delivered by 8:00 PM -- Well, my son is the manager of the Fed Ex office in Collage Station and three o'clock in the afternoon a curier returns with a package mis-matched that was to be delivered to an Austin address that had shown up there in Collage Station. Every curier was home, finished and exhausted! Since so many of the books were to collage students at A & M and they were all now home for the summer, the office looked up every student's home address and delivered the book to their home.

Paul, who is exhausted, who only had more back surgery 6 weeks ago, is the only one around. He heads home first picks up his family with TV in back of the Suburban for the boys to watch and leaves just after 5:00. With a Heavy foot you can make Austin in one hour and forty five minutes but, this address is clear on the western tip of the Austin area near Cedar Park. At 7:15 PM this Austin family is handed their copy of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, hand delivered from Collage Station. Needless to say Paul slept till noon today!

And finaly, I think I may have slipped into Book two-- Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets where spiders run rampant? In my bedroom last evening is a large tarantula where the ceiling and wall meet? With great trepidation I spray the thing with Shout or Shoot or maybe it was Raid-- well, what ever, the thing died about a half an hour later. What ever the ingredients are in those sprays today I have them most awful sinus and headache from having to sleep in the room where I sprayed. In our 100 degree heat I even opened the window and sprayed the room with lysol to no avail.

Hi, everybody! Got my new book yesterday...it was also my 33rd birthday. Anyway, it's pretty exciting so far (I was up last night reading until 3, when the baby got up). I didn't get to go to any parties but saw on television some kids dressed up and decorating broomsticks. It looked like fun--I would've gone if I could've. Instead I had a Mom moment on Saturday. My husband, father and I went out to eat with the baby (in a seating area in our local gourmet/health food grocery store), and this bizarre woman came up to us and told us off for "letting" him scream (he's 13 months old and just started doing this). Well. When we figured out what she was talking about, my husband told her we were trying. I told her she should go away now. Just thought I'd share--I'm so much more assertive now that I'm a mom.

I heard that there was a Wal-Mart back east somewhere (West Virginia?) where they mistakenly put two boxes of Harry Potter IV on the shelves on the 7th. When they figured it out half an hour later, all the books were gone.

Anyway, I don't mean to babble. You're right about the differences in how we see the Dursleys, Barbara--I was mostly asking because they are the only characters whose motivations baffle me. Malfoy acts the way he does because he's jealous, and also I suppose because his family was on Voldemort's side. (Another good name, Voldemort. Maybe the Latin scholars could help--"will of death" or "flight of death"?) Other odd characters become clear at the ends of the stories. But the Dursleys are just mean.

I've been thinking about the quote from Aunt Marge we've had in the heading--are some people just born bad? I think one of Rowling's major points she comes to again and again is that a person's choices really make them what they are. What does everybody think?

The Dursley's have a son of their own who is Harry's age.

I have seen it over and over and over in real life.

Harry is not even a "step" child. He is a nephew of Mr. Dursley. Mrs. Dursley Hates having him in her home. All of her maternal instincts go to her own baby boy, and she resents allowing Harry to share a crumb of what belongs to her own.

This is most definitely Not Nice, but oh, it is so normal!

Would that it were not so!

I posted way back that I believe this is only one book, not seven, and is just being published as 7 books, each covering 1 year of Harry's being at boarding school.

Last night I heard J.K. Rowling interviewed by Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes. Leslie pointed out that sequels usually do not fare as well as the first best-selling book of a series, that the books tend to peter out and not be as good, and asked if Rowling saw a problem with this. Rowling replied that she saw no problem at all because she thinks of this as ONE BIG NOVEL and not 7 books at all!

I wonder if the Dursley's mean behavior toward Harry is rooted in something we do not yet know about. Maybe quilt and rather than own quilt some people handle that by wnating the thing that reminds them of their guilt to go away. It may be the question that is holding these books together as one big story. Missed that interview and I really wish i had seen it.

I wonder if since the Aunt is blown up if that is significant to her belief. That condemning others as rotten on the inside is just so much hot air and that muggles do not take on the quests that give them opportunities to find, develop and act on their inner good, those values that we see Harry and his friends addressing with each adventure that starts with a quest journey on track 9 and 3/4.

Now that behavior I have seen where folks just go along in life doing what is expected but never really looking within. They seem to be very surface, filled with how things 'should' be done for their comfort really. Hehehe much like the lady telling you Ellen how you should be taking care of your little one. Oh my a true muggle there.

Mary I had not ever seen this in real life -- the thought is just horrible -- can you imagine being a child that is ignored and others in the household are given attention? Now I have seen children mistreated and ignored for the most part and later when the demands on the family are lessoned another baby born gets more quaility attention.

Since the difference in attention between Harry and his cousin are sooooo great I always thought this was really a devise that is typical of children who exaggerate in their minds what they perceive to be unfair treatment between themselves and their siblings. We know that children are centered first on themselves till they are I think teen-agers. Although, at Hogwarts, Harry is in some ways not centered on himself and yet, in other ways, like the fight over evil, it is really his fight with the other characters helping him.

Yes, Barbara, I do not have to imagine being such a child.

I truly have seen it. This story, of course, is a fantasy. But the pain of real life children going through similar situations is very, very real and heartrending.

Agreed. I taught 8th graders. The vast majority of my kids were treated well at home, and had siblings they were close to. But I had several students whose parents had started new families; one boy whose parents were divorced lived with his mom, who had 3 children, 4 stepchildren, and a new baby with her new husband, while his dad had stepchildren and two young children with his new wife. I can't even imagine having eight kids to divide attention among. This boy had some kind of learning disability and we wanted to get him evaluated, but the parents wouldn't allow it. I hate to say it but I think he's going to end up dropping out. I had another boy in my class whose mother had terminal cancer, father in prison, older sister had a baby that he took care of. When he fell asleep in class, I usually just let him sleep since it generally meant that he'd been up with the baby all night.

As a child and young adult, I thought that my parents favored my younger sister. When we were children, most of the physical affection was for her. I was nurtured in other ways; nonetheless, I remember how jealous I was when she could sleep in their bed during storms. As a young adult, I got to hear about how much my parents were helping her financially, while I had to make it on my own. I'm sure she would have similar stories to tell about me; just normal sibling rivalries and differences.

I agree with you, though, MaryPage. I thought the most heartrending scene in this book was when Sirius asked Harry to come live with him, and it became clear that this could not happen. I've read it twice now and got teary both times. There are situations like this, where one child is favored and the other treated as though he has something permanently wrong with him. I'm just glad Harry fights back by blowing up Aunt Marge and insulting Dudley.

I know I am a little late catching up, but I just ordered all four of the Harry Potter books. No grandchildren to pass them on to so I am going to donate them to the local public library.

But first I am going to read them.

It is a relief to me to see that smart adults that I know are reading them.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

from my library. I've reread Chapter 1 and was touched by Harry's first birthday presents. When I was a freshman in college, no one in my family remembered my birthday. One of the maids on my dormitory floor knew that I was unhappy about it. She gave me a pretty hanky as a gift. I felt more love from her than anyone related to me. I imagine Harry felt this way about his Hogwart's friends, also. Sue

PREcisely, Sue!

MaryPage, Ellen, Sue I hear so much hidden pain that this story is allowing. Maybe that is why we are so delighted with Harry experienceing and overcoming all his challanges. He touches that part of us that wants to be better than those that hurt us as well as, help keep us in touch with that powerful part of ourselves so that we do not fall victim to identifying only with the pain in our own lives and the pain we observe in the lives of other children.

The thought is that pain experienced allows compassion for others in pain - but I also see, pain experienced allows us to put up a shield so as not to be reminded of the pain and I've also seen the reaction where If I can overcome my pain then you 'should' also be able to overcome similar pain.

Fran I am so glad you are joining us -

I don't care what Harold Bloom says, the craze is not bad or showing this nations ignorance as to what is 'good' reading. I was really annoyed with his Ivory Tower lecture on what is 'good' and therefore, worthwhile literature to be spending our precious time reading. He had me thinking though and than I realized - OK Harry Potter may not be the Narnia saga or Wind in the Willows or Dickens etc. etc authors Harold Bloom spoke of to Charlie Rose in the interview - However, it seems to me most readers when they were children read a series and want more and more, falling in love with the characters and being guided by the values and morals in the stories. For some it was Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys for me it was the Bobbsy Twins. These stories when rewritten for todays children did not hit their buttons but if Harry Potter doesn't go down in the annuls of the greats it is at least the 21st centuries series that more children are reading than any other series in the history of children's books. So there hehehe. Obvousily like a true fan I will stand up for Harry regardless the respectablility and education of Harold Bloom. Note I did not say wisdom of Harold Bloom. At the age of 70 I would have expected a more balanced critique.

It always amazes me that those that critisize never own reading what they are so critical about-- hmmmmmm. I am getting Harry's cold chill.

Barbara, I know just what you mean. On Amazon's discussion boards people are writing about how they refuse to read these books and also about how they don't measure up to other series they read as children. I read Narnia as a child and loved the books, although even then I remember thinking that the religious symbolism tended to be heavy-handed.

Someone told me that some religious groups are trying to get these books banned from schools and libraries because they promote witchcraft. I actually think the Narnia books have more religion-based witchcraft in them than Harry Potter does. Harry Potter treats witchcraft as though it is just another skill. There is no religious component. I keep thinking that if these folks would just read the books, they would realize that.

Another criticism that I've heard is that the books lack strong female characters. Again, I don't think these people have read the books. Professor McGonagall and Hermione (I was Hermione) are both strong; Hermione hit Draco Malfoy, after all.

I didn't see the Bloom interview, but I would expect him to be fairly Ivory Tower. I'm surprised that people aren't writing about the big picture; that just when we've written off literacy, along came a series to enchant another generation of readers. So many people say, "Well, kids just don't read any more." Why aren't we getting that angle of the story?

Come to think of it, except for homework, I'm not sure any of the characters in Harry Potter are depicted reading...

The unmitigated Gall of the man to make a bald statement that these books do not compare with Narnia, etc!

In the first place, he admits He Has Not Read These Books!

You Must read books before you criticize or make comparisons!

In the second place, these books are beautifully written by a very gifted author. I adored the Narnia books, and read them over and over to children and grandchildren. BUT, I think the Harry Potter books are Better than C.S. Lewis's Narnia series AND better than Charles Dickens! Have always loved Dickens, but these books are Much more readable and not so dated.

Now, Wind In The Willows is another question. The tongue in cheek wit there was quite, quite wonderful. Rowlings Does have a lot of that as well! I will need more time to weigh the two on the scales and see which, if either, emerges the winner. Emphasis on the "if either!"

Well all I can say is-- who is to measure who's life is fuller for having read what books. And yes, I loved "Wind in the Willows" and only read it as an adult after having come across William Horwood's The "Willows in Winter." If you haven't read "The Willows and Beyond" do yourself a favor and get a copy. All the characters grow old. It is charming.

I've only recently read Narnia and much of the story I found confusing it was a rather airy out-of-this-world type experience rather than an adventure that got my heart racing.

Talk about adventure I am trying to remember when I last really worked to hard to make something happen that was important to me. I remember putting so much effort into Christmas and for about 7 years straddling 1990 I worked hard just to recover and get my head straight after some personal devistation. But doing something for me that would be fun and a personal accomplishment, now that I haven't done in a long time and maybe it is about time I do just that....hmmmm lot's of I ought to's come to mind immediatly but this I think I want to be just for me and for the shear joy of it.

I received book 4 in the mail today. I can't wait. Over 700 pages! Wow. I feel sorry for the people who cannot enjoy the sheer "play" of reading these books.

Deb how wonderful - I think we will want to do Book 4 but I sure would like to get through book 3 first. I'm hoping by the end of August to have book 4 up and going.

Early on in our discussions, I told how our grade school principal took books 1 & 2 from our school library shelves, saying they were the work/writings of the devil... Her minister, Baptist, had recommended it. If I could show her that James Dobson OK'd them, she would put them back.

By that time I was so disgusted... I didn't feel like arguing with her. Besides I didn't want to lose my non-paying volunteer job, because I really liked teaching computer.

So this summer the books she removed from the school shelves showed up in the little lending library in our little town... I didn't do it... I just urged the librarian to throw them in the trash and then the janitor took them to the library.

Besides the schools teach The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe. And I just can't see much difference in the fantasy there.

Pat terrrriffic story - so much fuss over children's books - what have we come to...

Just thought of a connection-- if Prof. Lupin's first name is Remus, one of the mythological builders of Rome, than I can see by teaching his class, with a simple "curse," how to change the "boggie man" (boggarts) in his student's lives into ridiculus imagined creatures, he is building his students, and of course the children reading this book, into children of courage.

Pat looks like you made a Riddikulus curse without realizing it and the teacher probably doesn't know what happened to her. The Janitor seems to be wiser than she. Pat I am curious, how does the thinking of the Christian Right get into the Public Schools where there is supposed to be no specific religious thinking?

In many "approved" books, such as the Narnia series, the people, animals, places and things which are "magical" are treated as though they are normal and to be expected.

In the Harry Potter books, if you took the "magical" things away, totally, you would STILL have a good yarn with Real people, places and things in it! Rowling makes it Very clear in her books that there is a Real World and then there is this unseen world of magic that is ENTIRELY separate, and even in this parallel world, one must Learn to use magic.

The Harry Potter books are popular with people of All ages because they prickle the imagination, tickle the funny bone, and take you along for the ride with much pleasure. They are also constantly, on every page, teaching the rewards of living with High Moral Values.

Maybe the worry by those uncomfortable with the books is the fact that the Muggles in Harry's life were definitely unChristain toward Harry

I think you've Got it!

I also tend to believe they have not read these books.

Whew...don't get me started on the Christian Right and the schools. That's why teachers in many places can't talk about evolution, even as a theory.

I've been thinking about remaining alive without a soul. I wonder first off if that's how a person is transformed to a Dementor, by having their soul devoured. It might explain why the Dementors "suck the happiness out of a place," (p. 97) if they aren't capable of happiness anymore.

I suppose I think part of having a soul is emotion: experiencing emotion, good or bad. Although, come to think of it, the Dementors make people relive their most horrible memories over and over again. Maybe that's what being soulless is--dwelling on bad memories? Or only being happy when other people are unhappy?

The Dementors are the most frightening beings I've encountered in reading in a while. And the nerve of Malfoy to dress up as one--ugh! It makes me think he is as soulless as they are.

I've always thought of the soul as being that part of us that makes us who we are, sort of a distilled personality that also inspires us to strive for high moral values. I think of it as being the best parts of ourselves, undiluted by the things we wish we weren't. Maybe without a soul a person becomes only the things we wish we weren't--jealous, or angry, or vain--and more than that, the person doesn't mind being those things anymore.

Hmm. I hope I haven't bored anyone by thinking this through while typing.

Not at all, Ellen.

Ellen thanks for that post-- you are so right this has been the most freightening thing I have read. The discription of the cold and drained body and all those Dementors looking up at Harry during the game-- I felt my tummy emptying. Need to read a bit further in order to read where Malfoy dresses up as one. Brrrr

I may have to catch up on this, the deepest part of a Harry Potter experience yet. My daughter is in from SC and we are joining my son from Collage Staion, with all of the grandboys we are going to the coast for a few days. I leave in the wee hours of the morning and will be back either Wed. night late or Thursday afternoon.

Please, can I ask y'all a favor. There are so many of us that keep these discussions going on vacation this week and all I can do is turn to y'all that have been intrenched in this book to support one another and if by chance a newcomer posts, please give them a welcome.

I'm going to scoot one more focus question in the heading-- so, like putting a cassarole in the frig. y'all have enough to spark a discussion. No computer or owls I'm afraid in Aransas on the Texas coast.

It's hard for me to understand how someone could function without a soul--that deepest, most emotional, inner part of one's self. I've been mulling it over for several days. I've imagined that living with late stage Alzheimer's Disease may be very close to soullessness. What do you think?

I'm reading a few chapters a day, so I'm not in a position to comment further on the Dementors and Malfoy. I have read the book previously, but I don't remember details very long (and this always makes me worry about senility and/or Alzheimer's. However, I read at least 4 or 5 books a week and tend to put the details aside once I've read them).

Barbara, have a lovely time with your grands! Sue

Another hmm... from me. Maybe that is what it would be like--the very late stages of Alzheimer's, when the person doesn't know anyone any more.

Our next-door neighbor had to go to a nursing home because she has Alzheimer's. She is apparently very happy there, because she thinks she is in college. Sometimes she thinks she is on a world tour. In any case, she still knows everyone; she just thinks she is living in some of the best times of her life. I think that if you have to be unaware of where you are, you might as well think you're someplace good.

Hi, everybody! I was just cleaning out my car and discovered that when I bought Book 4, Waldenbooks gave me my very own house stickers as well as one for the Quidditch World Cup. I don't know yet what I'm going to stick them to but I thought they were fun.

Would like to talk about the professors but my toddler is clinging to me. More later!

I had to return The Prisoner of Azkaban to the library today. I have been looking for posts to respond to, but everyone seems to be away. I have a couple of questions for you:

In this book, we learn more of Snape's reasons for being mean to Harry. Do you think as the series goes on, he'll lose his resentment or do you think he'll turn out to be an instrument of the dreaded Voldemort? Don't tell if the answer is in The Goblet of Fire. I'd like to be surprised when I read it.

Now my next question is really a guess. If I am guessing correctly, don't answer me here, send me an e-mail so you won't give it away for others who haven't read The Goblet of Fire. I've read newspaper accounts which say that someone dies in this new book. I'm guessing it's Neville Longbottam. Please e-mail me if it's yes. I guess it wouldn't hurt to say if it's no in this discussion. Thanks, Sue

Sue, you had the Same thought I had! Exactly. Just when children were chattering away about it and assuming it meant one of the important threesome and begging the author for it Not to be Ron, I said to myself, ever so sagely, as I thought at the time, I'll bet it is going to be that poor, sweet Neville and I'll just bet he is going to be a Big Hero!

Well, you're wrong, Sue. So is MaryPage. It is none of the above.

The answer about Snape is not in The Goblet, though we learn a lot more both pro and con. I STILL believe Snape will choose the Good Side in the long run. I also think we will not know until Book 7. In fact, in my mind now, I see Snape in the same scenario I (and you) dreamed up for Neville.

has this book been discussed? i am reading it at the moment and would enjoy hearing from others.

Today is Harry Potter's Birthday!

Mary yes - Oh yes - I need to call my grands so they can remember and celebrate also. I will promptly get into my read and be back this evening with some remarks and gussy up the heading. Thanks MaryPage for the reminder.

Barbara:  I've  been trying to catch up with the rest of the postings on our "wizard child" here.  I , fortunately am able to read in the car and read this entertaining story while en- route from NYS back to Florida.  Last year I read the others with my grand-children and posted at that time.  You have described the aunt's mishap admirably.  Hot air...  I loved that narrative.  I loved the expression in the book, "It gives me the colly wobbles!"  That cracks me up. The colly wobbles!  Which one of the professors was it that said "Here, draw up a chair" and proceeded to literally draw a chair in air?  I laughed for 10 minutes over that little anecdote .

Hi, all, just wanted to let everyone know I am still around but without a computer at the moment (I'm at the library). I find these books hilarious, too--I think we've all had moments when we wished we could get rid of a relative that way!

Here I thought I was going to get my Grandboys to post and the weeks have shoed by so quickly that we barely had time to read together much less post. They are on the road back to South Carolina. We did much swimming together this year.

Picked up the book again just where Harry hears his mother' dying screams. Oh my -- get into that and it is frightening in a very different way than simply being scared of Snipe or Sirus Black or even "You-know-Who." I felt drained as if the Dementors had me by the heart.

Several lessons I really found valuable so far while reading this book. The concept of dressing a personal frightening image or anything I would be scared of into something rediculous is such a great trick. And this concept of feeling low that is the work of some outside agent. I like that-- rather then feel responsible that you let your mind go where it is unhappy it allows me to feel that an outside force has taken hold and after a bit of rest it will lesson it's grip. And the biggest lesson that I've heard so many times-- STAY AWAY FROM NEGATIVE PEOPLE! They do seem to suck the air out of a room don't they.

Yes, they do Barb. They give me The Colley-wobbles!

Wow Alf-- yes, I like that expression-- the colley-wobbles-- need to remember that one because it is perfect to describe the feeling when there is someone negative around.

Rawlings is really good at building a lot of scarry fear. Every thing that happens seems to be written with an air of foreboding. I'm up to Christmas dinner at Hogwarts.

Flippen channels tonight just as Regis asked, on that millionaire show, the name of Harry's owl. The contestant owned up to reading one of the books when Regis asked if he had been reading the Potter series. Didn't stay to find out how much he won since they are replaying the 1900 series and I wanted to see what I had missed the first time around.

It's a good thing I've never been a contestant on that show, Barbara, I can't remember the owl's name either. I've never had the urge to look at the show. We've been watching WNBA basketball almost every night this summer. I am going to peek back in the only H.P. I own to learn the owl's name. The only animal's name I can remember is Scabbers, Ron's rat, and we all know by now that he really was a RAT! Sue

Sue a hint it begins with an H and it's not Hagrid or Harry. Sue you just have to get the new one, Harry and the Chalice of Fire. I've already started it and still haven't finished this one. Well actually I bought the tapes for the new one and listened to them as I drove back and forth to the coast in July. There are 12 tapes, the trip is about 3 and 1/2 hours-- I am only up to tape 4 but this one is a real book with lots and lots happening before they even get to school.

Since I'm home I've had so much to catch up and we visited so much as my daughter only returned to SC on Monday. I promised myself to finish this one before I got back into the new Chalice of Fire. Listening to it on tape is so great to get the proper pronunciation of all the words.

My daughter-in-law bought the new Chalice of Fire for the boys and where they are only up to the fifth chapter, she couldn't put it down and stayed up all night then read all weekend till she finished it. Sally also said it was more developed and like reading an adult novel.

Stopped off at Borders on my way home tonight and found a delightful book all about Rawlings. Started to read it but needed to leave. It is paperback and only about 100 pages -- I'm too cheap to spend the 9.95 so I'll stop back in next week and read it at the store.

I've actually done that since I was a teenager. I've never been caught at it and have sometimes bought the book afterwards.

I don't really like the Millionaire show either. Can't stop thinking about how much of the prize money goes straight to taxes!

I also agree on the avoiding negative people. I worked with one last year who was so annoying to be around all of us started avoiding her!

The "ridikulus" charm made me think of the suggestion to deal with public speaking by picturing the audience in their underwear.

Hehehe I like that Ellen - in their underwear - hehe.

Have you noticed that so many of the bigger book stores now seem to be set up to encourage your reading the books in the store, almost like a library. I do get so much more read when in Borders where I can sit with my coffee and even have supper of a sandwich or salad. Our B&N is such a big barn of a building with 2 levels that echo. The coffee shop is seperated with all these partiticians and not nearly as open or cozy as Borders. Usually if the book is around 200 some pages I can read it in one sitting of about 3 hours. For me it is a nice way of getting away form all the "must do's" at home and the background music is soothing. They seem to play a lot of classic and jazz with the scent of the coffees and a quiet group of folks often with their lap tops or a small group visiting I find it a nice break.

Ellen with your short sentences it sounds like your access to this site is still at the Library. Is your computer being 'mended'? Miss your thoughts which were always so thought provoking.

I've been thinking long and hard about this loss of soul that is infered. This bit really hit home in that I think it happens to many a child when they are living within an unsupportive or frieightening or abusive situation. They do lose much of their good feeling, and have few happy memories so that the circumstances of life is like the Dementors sucking out a sense of self or your soul. There is a great book that tought me so much called "Too Scared To Cry" by Lenore Terr, MD that addresses how Trauma affects children and as she says untimiately all of us.

Harry sure has experienced truama and this book really has him experiencing some heavy duty infant memories.

Barbara, I'm at home again, but my internet service provider went out of business and we now have a new one that is driving me crazy (I can't get rid of the advertisements; they have several that mimic error messages on the computer). Mostly that was an I'm-still-here message. Meanwhile I feel like I'm a candidate for the men with the white coats....

Child abuse and trauma: I've been thinking about it too (especially after Book 4 but I don't want to get ahead of myself). Probably the most harrowing teacher inservice I've ever been to was on child abuse and drug use; they talked about the things people do to their kids that don't necessarily show but you can still figure it out. They had pictures of some of these things. I don't want to horrify anyone so I won't tell you what, unless you really want to know (and you don't). What I thought was most horrifying was that someone has to plan out how to hurt their child without leaving obvious marks. It seems more horrible than a parent striking out in anger (although obviously that's horrible too). After two hours of this, we had another couple of hours on drugs--how to recognize them and how to tell if a student is using them. I didn't know what any of them looked like, so it was an education for me (guess I go to the wrong parties...). It was a very educational session, but they definitely told me things I didn't want to know.

As I said, it's the planned nature of the attacks that troubled me. I don't understand how a human being could make such a plan. Maybe souls have less to do with spirituality than I thought before; it has more to do with whether or not a person could do things that are unthinkable, things I'd really rather not know someone could do to a child--any child, not just their own.

In some ways I think it's not so difficult for me to read about the Dursleys because their treatment of Harry goes so far as to be almost cartoonish. Part of that is the descriptions (like Dudley being so fat that he overlaps the chair, or when Harry congratulated him on knowing the days of the week). Still, they do real harm to Harry but more, I think, to themselves. My mother has told me all my life that hating someone hurts you more than them; maybe the act of hating starts eating away at your soul? Huh. Who knew ol' Mom knew what she was talking about?

Ellen, we're so glad you're back where you belong - ah to sing like Striesand. Yes, book four will be on the agenda here - I bought the tapes and listened to some of the story on my way back and forth to the coast in July when my family got together and I already have the heading started with 'buttons' a new skill for me. Yes, Harry symbols made into buttons to link the many other links and other information available.

Have y'all seen the new metal Christmas tree orniments or hangings that Hallmark is going to carry of 6 Harry Potter images. There is an owl with a letter in its beak and of course Harry on a broom.

Ellen sounds like a difficult week and yet It is so gratefying to learn that more folks are being made aware of just how manipulitive perpetrators of abuse often are. Yes, over and over we learn that it is all about a need for power and an obsesive need to control another that can be easily obtained by abusively disempowering and controlling children and woman.

I know the concept that most of the tormentors had experienced abuse and are numb to their own feelings and story and 'need' to replay the experience with them winning but I am sorry I do not really understand because to me you would want your child to have better than you. There may be some unresolved issues but I can see them coming out in other forms of control then abusing your own babies. Ok I am being dramatic but to me my children in their 40s are still my babies in my heart.

What I'm seeing in this story is that the Dementors even the word is like the inner voices that keep the victim re-abusing themselves with memory and flashbacks of their expereinces.

The word Dementor reminds me of several words like; Demean and Dement, which means to make someone insane, and dementia and demise and De the opposite of mentors. All adds up to me as the takers of the world but also the inner self-talk that can be takers of our own spirit or soul.

Harry, living in the safty of Hogswart, seems to function so much better and with much inner strength than many a child that secretly carries their cross. Of course few children get away from their tormentors for 9 months out of the year as Harry does.

I wonder if wart in old English could possibly mean worth-- need to look that one up. Could Hogs be Hugs worth.

This bit about Harry remembering his mother's dying screams and frantic saving of her baby Harry- whew. I will be seeing my Grands in Collage Station, this Friday. They have read the book and I hope to ask them what their thoughts and feelings were during all that.

Still haven't finished and I keep asking as I read what is going on with Hermione? Between her insensitivity about Crookshanks behavior, her fear allowing her to snitch on Harry about his Fireball and all the classes that she is mysteriously taking at one time that she is down right irritable. Her only saving grace has been her sincere concern and aid to Hagrid. Well it will all be revealed I'm sure.

Oh, yes, it will be revealed. Some of it in Book 4.

Wow. I like to play games like that with words, too. The inservice I was talking about was 3 years ago. Even though I'm not working this year, August always makes me think of the beginning of school again. I'm with you on the replay-the-abuse argument; I heard that in graduate school. I guess I keep thinking that thes people are adults; they must have some moment in their lives when they aren't insane about something their child did, so wouldn't they seek help when they are rational? At least, that's what I think. But not being in that position, maybe I just don't see the whole angle.

Hogwarts. I've actually been wondering about that one, myself. It doesn't appear to be named after a person, as the houses are. About the only thing I can come up with is "warts and all;" as in, we love you even with your imperfections. Oh, and "Wart" was King Arthur's nickname in Once and Future King. As for the "hog" part, I notice in my dictionary the term "Hogmanay," which is a Scots New Year's holiday in which children go door to door and ask for presents.

As for Hogsmeade, mead is an alcoholic beverage made from honey; it also means "meadow." And James Meade was a British economist (Hogsmeade is a market town).

Diagon Alley--if you put it together it's "diagonally." Which is how one passes into the wizard world--not on a straight line.

I love having a 10-pound dictionary. It was kind of a dream gift--but I gave it to myself.

When I read the book first, I almost thought the broom was going to have been a gift from Santa Claus, even though Rowling doesn't do things that way. I don't know that I've ever received a dream gift anonymously (everyone I know wants to take the credit!). If I did, though, I think that would add to the excitement rather than ruining the fun. "Just what I've always wanted--and I don't know who sent it!"

Oh Faith you own the item of my dreams - I have always wanted one of those 10 pound dictionaries of Biblical preportions. Ahh bliss.

I love it that you saw Diagonally-- I didn't see that one at all! And Hogsmeade is a real honest to goodness market town! Amazing!

It wasn't actually my dream, but it was comforting and loving. When I was a freshman in college (should I now say freshperson?), no one in my family remembered my birthday. The maid who cleaned my dorm room was a sweet lady and she knew how disappointed and upset I was. She brought a birthday card and a pretty handkerchief to my room and left it on my bed while I was in class. I've never forgotten her.

Now to Hermione. I've read the entire Prisoner of Azkaban twice, so of course, I know why her behavior might seem peculiar to some. However, ratting on Harry's new firebolt seems like something I might do. She is very fond of Harry, best buds, and is afraid that there may be some evil spell connected with the anonymous gift. And of course, when we learn who did send the firebolt, we know that everyone would have suspected the same, although they would have been wrong. I also think that Hermione and Harry may develop a deeper relationship as they grow older, but it could be Ron that Hermione is paired with later.

BTW, I've started reading The Goblet of Fire. I won't give anything away, but it is on a par with the first three. Sue

Barbara, having the posts in bold makes it difficult to emphasize a point. Do you have a special reason for having everything print out on the screen in bold type? Sue

Hmmm I'm not using bold Sue-- let me check the heading to make sure but I believe the only bit in the heading in bold is the line of Welcome. I use a Mac and see the heading on one screen. Yesterday I was at the office and pulled this site and found a lot of white space that shocked me since I did not write in all that white space. But let me check to make sure that I have not carried a bold inadvertanly by not cancelling it out.

Whooops found the illusive Bold tucked in with so much other HTML language I missed it. Thank you Sue for bringing it to my attention. Does it read better now?

Thanks, Barbara, for finding the bold command. This is much easier for me to read now. I appreciate your work in maintaining a great Book Club web site! Thanks again, Sue

My dream gift now would be Sony Instant Dream room. I saw it on a box of ceral. If someone came to my front door with the winning ticket in an envelope and I didn't know who sent the winning ticket to me, I would be so happy. But I would want to find out who gave it to me. It would be hard to find out and I would ask my parents to help me.

I do not believe you would loose your soul forever. I think you could be hypnotized to remember what happened and then your soul would return.

My favorite part is at the end when they find out that Black is innocent.

It would be pretty bad to have to remember every time like Harry about his mother dying. I would feel scared and sad and I would want to shut my ears and close my eyes when ever those thoughts or sounds came. Made me not like Dementors.

My dream gift would be a go-cart and if somehow I found a large box with a go-cart in it at my front door but no name I would still be happy.

I am most afraid of becoming lost. With Grandma's help we figured out a good Riddikulus Charm. I can imagine I was on an adventure.

I would feel bad if all my peace, joy and happiness was sucked out of me. I would probably just be doing nothing. If you loose your soul you loose that one. But if you get happiness you could get another soul. I would try to play with someone and have fun with them so I could be happy again. Than I would have another soul

My favorite part is at the end when he found out that Black was his Godfather and also, when he got the new Fireball.

When Harry could hear his mother's voice it made me feel sad.

I would be most afraid of being kidnapped. I would imagine the kidnapper to be a big man that was wearing a pink Tutu and I have discussed with my Grandmother things I could do to hurt a kidnapper and so now I know things to do.

My dream would be to have a laptop that has a DVD modem. If I ever received a surprise gift of this laptop I would run around the room singing Joy, Joy and play with it as long as I could that day. At night I'd pray and say, "God, God bless who ever gave me this laptop."

If I had all the peace, joy and happiness sucked out of me I would feel angry, like I had an empty space inside me. If this ever happened I do not think you could get your soul back. I think most bad guys are soul-less people.

My favorite part is when Lupin turns into a warewolf and Harry's Dad turns into a Stag.

When we read the part where Harry could hear his mother's voice it made me feel sad, very sad. I was suprised when that was in the book it was cruel sort of.

I'm looking forward to book 7 because I think Harry will become a professional Quidditch player and also finally beat Voldermort.

for your thoughts on your dream gifts. It sounds like you've really put a lot of thought into them. I was very interested in your comments about The Prisoner of Azkaban, too. I also liked that Sirius turned out to be good instead of evil. What a relief that must have been to Harry!

I've just seen an article on the upcoming Harry Potter movie. I'm going to try to give you a link: Harry'sMovieNews report. I hope you other Potter fans have a chance to read it. Sue

Thanks Sue-- we clicked on the site and all three boys ran to tell their Mom.

What a great evening. It was such a neat experience for me to have each boy, separatly. One discussed while sitting on my lap, another pulled a chair beside me having first made both of us a cup of tea and the other stood, leaning with arms locked straight and both hands spread on the computer table.

P2 shared his fear but no amount of ideas seem to work as a workable charm to reduce his fear. All three boys dug deep-- looked to be sure no one was listening after much "I do not know what I fear" before they shared their fears. 'John' especially felt so much better after he talked about his fear and we had fun discussing what he could do. Right off he knew if it was a woman kidnapping him he could hit her in the chest and that would be so painful she would have to take care of herself while he ran away yelling. Well with a beet red, shy face he figured out where to hit or twist on a man. He smiled and you could see the sense of self-empowerment after he put it all together. I loved his idea of a pink tutu.

All three boys seemed to be able to fully enjoy a gift without knowing the benefactor. That was a feeling I've been uncomfortable about. I couldn't relax if I received a gift from an unknown source. In one breath I would enjoy the gift but it would be more like I would 'like' to enjoy-- I can feel a nameless anxiety. I think for me I have never, even as a child, invested that much of myself in the object but the gift was more meaningful because of the donor. I always felt gifts as a sign of love and caring. Love that I could return with a beam of happiness. Without knowing who gave me a gift the all important part would be missing for me. Sappy but true.

Not having completed book 3 I could only take the boys word for their discription of the parts they liked best. I'm on page 320.

of your grandsons. They talk about their deepest thoughts with you. I think that's the best compliment a parent or grandparent can receive. All three seem to be perceptive, intelligent children. I'm sure you must enjoy them tremendously.

I'm about halfway through The Goblet of Fire now. There was an interesting thought from Harry about the Dementors about 1/4 of the way through the book. I'll share it with you as it does pertain to The Prisoner of Azkaban also.

Harry is thinking: "for that was the terrible power of the Dementors: to force their victims to relive the worst memories of their lives, and drown, powerless, in their own despair...".

Again, I am struck by the use of depression as perhaps a darkness of the soul. Sue

Wow Sue - what perception Rawlings shows and you picked up on it - sounds like depression and also the experience of flashbacks that results from a traumatic experience that some are still working through. That time when you are dead to the world, just barely able to take care of yourself, feeling little happiness or joy, closed off from the give and take of love and friendship as if buried in a dark hole. Hmmmm yes, that could be called losing your soul couldn't it.

I'm beginning to equate someone with their soul intact as being part of a collective universal soul for the want of better words.

Barbara--Thanks for sharing your grandchildrens' perceptions with us. I was able to talk to my grandmother the same way. She passed away two years ago, and she is the person I thought of when reading many things you put into the heading.

I also don't believe the dead ever really leave us. Grandmother talks to me whenever I have a decision to make, and also when I'm feeling a little lonely. Whether it's my mind telling me what she would say or whether she's actually visiting, who knows; it's not a question that I need an answer to. I just feel close to her sometimes even though she isn't here any more.

I agree with you, Sue, on depression as a darkness of the soul. When Grandmother was ill, she actually cheered up the priest about her circumstances (she knew she would not recover) as well as the rest of us. She told us how she looked forward to seeing our grandfather, and that she had already lived much longer than she ever thought she would (82). I hope when my time comes I can face it with as much grace and dignity.

I hadn't thought about associating a gift with a giver, although I do that, too. We have dishes and so forth that friends gave us for our wedding, and things people gave us for Teddy when he was born. And I do think about those people every time I use those items. That was pretty thought-provoking--I'll have to consider the question again.

Hey! I'm glad to see I'm not the only senior readding about Harry Potter. In fact, my daughter-in-law just sent me all 4 books for my birthday. I had read the 1st 3 when my granddaughter spent Xmas with me. Now i have my own and I read the Goblet in 2 days. What I don't understand is how children can hold the book! Fun reading tho.

Hi! For me, I think it's part of the experience--when we read Alice in Wonderland here the book was nice and big, proportioned as though the adult were a child. I'm with you, though--I had to prop my elbows to hold Book 4 and my wrists still don't feel the same!

Was out in the car a while ago and the local all-news radio station said the announcement is out that a British boy has been approved by Rowlings for the part of the 11 year old Harry Potter. One assumes if he does well, he will do all 7 movies.

And I SWORE to myself I would remember his name and come on here and tell you. And here I am, and all I can remember is that he played the YOUNG David Copperfield in the latest version of that.

He was Good! AND, best of all, he looks passably like Harry Potter!

Oh, this is Great!

By the way, anyone want to bet me a nickel that Ginny winds up as Harry Potter's girlfriend??

I think that was meant to be right from book one, when she got a terrible crush on him the moment she laid eyes on him. I think Rowlings is going to award Her the prize, and Hermione and Ron will be a pair.

Bet 'cha!

Mary-Page, especially in the Hermoine-Ron match-up. We get lots of hints about it in The Goblet of Fire. I'm not a betting person, so I'll just wait and see. I think Cho is still in the running for Harry.

I forget the name of the actor, too, but it is listed in the link I posted a couple of days ago for those who want to check. Sue

No, Sue. I went back and checked the site. That is NOT the boy who got the part. The pre-leaked information was not correct!

I have to put a pillow in my lap to read Potter IV.

Mary-Page. I'll have to keep my eye out for the correct name. I'll probably wait for the movie to come out on video before I see it, though. The closest movie theaters are 65 miles away. Do you really think they will make 7 movies? Sue

Yes, I really do.

I predict the first one will beat out the highly successful Star Wars series.

Rowlings will never have to write or work again as long as she lives!

Hi everyone: A book I enjoyed reading so much was "Pope Joan", by Donna Woolfolk Cross. The added pleasure was buying my two teenage granddaughters the same book and discussing it after they read it. What a great way to establish a line of communication - no generation gap there. I think we all liked it because it was on par with "Memoirs of a Geisha," Pillars of The Earth" and "Clan of the Cave Bear." It's marvelous reading. So marvelous, I read it for the second time.

The author, Donna Woolfolk Cross, tells the story of a young girl in pursuit of an education and the only option available to her -- disguising herself as a man; entering the monastery; excelling in learning and becoming Pope. Her life will make you laugh; it will make you cry. It will definitely make you question! Was Joan a Pope? Did the Church bury her history with her bones; or, was she just a figment of someone's imagination? Personally, I for one believe she was a Pope. Men and women readers will appreciate the historic setting; the struggle in the church and the research of the book. I did get a lot more insight when our reading club learned that Ms. Cross is personally available to groups via speakerphone chats to discuss our questions, our thinking and the many mysteries of Pope Joan. She promptly replies. Best of all, it costs nothing [US and Canada] -- the author makes the phone call herself (as she says, it protects her privacy and it's tax-deductible for her)! Interested groups can leave a message on the Pope Joan website, www.popejoan.com and the author will reply promptly to set up a time for a chat. After the discussion, your group will have something to talk about for a long time -- and -- you too will walk away with a little more knowledge.

Another thing that is really an experience is that you can also post questions on her website guest book and the author will respond. I know because several of our reader's group did just that and were happy with the responses. Let me know how you make out. My granddaughters and I are waiting for the movie presently in progress! Thanks for letting me visit with you. Dolphindli@aol.com

Hey teach [Barbara], are we going to do HP and The Goblet of Fire? I'm ready; I just finished it!

I'll just say one thing...these books get better with each one I've read!

Well then, it is a good thing you live in Ohio and not in TEXAS, as Barbara does. They are trying to BAN Harry Potter in that beknighted state! What a hoot!

Oh shoot hadn't heard- they sure aren't trying here but than Austin has the ominous reputation as the hub of libral thinkers in the state!

Just trying to cope with the heat the last week. The 3 days that it was 110, 112 and 113 were scarey. You could feel something like being in another realm. The stillness was unbelievable and than as the heat built the wind gathered and roared feeling like it was going to tear the roof off the house, then it would cool a few degrees and start in all over. The trees were so dry they were snapping and clutting streets creating traffic jams all over town.

Been trying to do too much and read too manny books - I'll finish this discussion up this weekend and get going on Goblet. Have most of the heading finished - I'm not finished reading Goblet - just up to Harry taking his egg into a bath.

Banning Harry Potter would be sort of like banning Snow White or Little Red Riding Hood or The Wizard of Oz or or or... I'm convinced these books will join the ranks of the classics for all time.

Jeryn, I am convinced of that as well.

Anyone finished with book three so we can talk about the surprises? I am a little bit in love with Harry's godfather. And more convinced than ever that Snape will turn hero before the end of book 7.

Oh yes, I adore Sirius, MaryPage! And that NAME! Don't you love it! I'm betting on Snape, too, even though he was once among the "dark" wizards. His time will come... to do good.

Snape, MaryPage and Jeryn. I just have this feeling that he is evil. Call it intuition. I think he will continue to be a stumbling block for Harry. Sue

I am about three fourths of the way through book 4. I can't believe that I am so taken with these books. I loved the Oz books when I was a girl...probably for many of the same reasons. They are so imaginative. They are trying to ban them in Texas? Why? Also, I don't trust Snape either. They have selected the actor to play him in the movie. Of course, I can't remember his name, but he plays nasty very well.

Peggy Welcome so glad you found us. We will have the site opened for book 4 early this week, probably Monday evening.

Oh I imagine as in so much of the Bible Belt folks that are not familiar with children's Literature are reacting to rumors they have heard that started when the books first became so popular and were on the Best Seller lists. The Christian Right seem to see all the magic in the stories as Satanic. Well they obviously haven't read much 'good' children's Lit. or the fantasy stories that we have learned more about our spirituality like the Hobbit. What can I say-- it does seem to be an American phenomena especially in the South although, I think it was Pat that says their having the same experiences there in, was it Ohio or Indianna.

Peggy we are trying to finish up some thoughts about book 3 this weekend and there are some focus question above. So if you do have some thoughts to share we would love to hear them.

The focus questions changed every other week or so and this was the last batch and so if you try to read and make sense out of the past posts it may confuse since they were probably about questions that are no longer in the heading.

Sirius was more truly the prisoner. Pettigrew always WAS a rat! But Sirius had to fight and fight without let up to keep them from wiping out his mind and personality. Pettigrew just got fed and petted and got to be an eavesdropper.

Great answer, MaryPage. I kept trying to think how to explain it and you came up with a great conclusion. Sue

Boy do I agree with you also MaryPage. I don't think rats ever really know their character and we are hoping they will so they can say something that we want to hear that allows us to feel that they realize the damage they cause. The more I think of a wimpering rat as the animal the more it becomes clear to me what folks that are like rats really are.

Boy this whole thing with Lupin really caught me by suprise-- I would never have guessed.

And talk about an instruction in self-respect when Harry keeps Pettigrew alive. It is too late gotta finish this tomorrow after all. I have about 30 pages to go.

It was a bit confussing tonight getting back into book 3 when I am so far along listening to the tapes for book 4. Book 4 really is so full that book 3 seems like a child's book in comparison doesn't it.

Pat's husband is in the hospital so that may delay getting the Goblet up in its intirety tomorrow night but I will try to get up what we have and add as Pat is available tø work the graphics into the seniornet gallery and get the links set. These headings take several of us doing different aspects of the job.

Just a couple of thoughts about Book Three. We're going out of town for two or three days so maybe you will have "Goblet of Fire" when I get back. I would have been really disappointed in Harry if he had killed Voldemort....it doesn't suit his character. If he hasn't raised a finger to those awful Dursleys, he probably wouldn't to Voldemort. Of course, we haven't gotten to the end yet. Also, I think James would expect a kid with that amount of imagination to have an equal amount of curiosity.

Peggy hope your trip is a good one for you - and yes I hope to have Goblet up and running-- as I said I'm needing the assistance of someone who has a very sick husband in the hospital and do not want to burden her with Harry Potter. It will only be a few days delay I am sure.

I like that about James expecting curiosity from a boy with imagination. I keep remembering my own at that age and some of their curiosity was easy to live with and than sometimes - oh my - I can remember my eldest son helping - we lived in Kentucky when they were younger and we still changed screens and storm windows out each spring and fall -- well I had him helping by carrying the portable vac around as I cleaned out the window sills from the inside and than helped snap the storm windows in place. We got to the bathroom where my daughter, only 10 months younger than he, was taking her eveing bath, mostly to keep her out of the way while this task was being done. While in the bathroom I got her out and into her nighties. My eldest desided it would satisfy his curiosity to know what would happen if you vacumed up the water in a tub - shesh it is a wonder we are still living to tell the tale. There were no GFCIs in those days. Ruined the vacume and screen changing came to a halt that evening.

If your newspaper carries this single-picture cartoon, check it out for yesterday.

WONDERFUL drawing of a school building "HOGWARTS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL". Man who is probably the principal standing in front talking to another man: "The school board voted to change the name from Erwin Valley to Hogwarts Elementary, and we've had perfect attendance ever since."

I laughed and laughed. Hey, it's a Good Idea!

Thanks for sharing, MaryPage. It could probably be true, too! Sue

Also yesterday 3 new books were reviewed by THE WASHINGTON POST.

"We Love Harry Potter!" by Sharon Moore. THE POST says "Yuck." I think they are advising us not to bother with it.

"J.K. ROWLING: The Wizard Behind Harry Potter" by Marc Shapiro. THE POST says "If you've read many magazine or newspaper stories about Rowling, you've pretty much already read this book", which is an unauthorized biography. THE POST also finished with: "We can do without this book."

"Exploring Harry Potter" by Elizabeth Schafer. THE POST says: "This is a good introduction to the way teachers and critics think and talk about literature. It's also filled with interesting background information, like the fact that Nicholas Plamel was a real 14th-century alchemist." They wind up by saying: "You can't help learning something from this book."

You can read about these books and more at:

www.washingtonpost.com/kidspost

Yep have to agree on the "We Love Harry Potter!" by Sharon Moore. Saw it in Border a few weeks ago-- it was like a struggle to say something all written in large print that appears to me to make the little said fill out enough pages so that it could even be sold as a book.

And yes MaryPage when we read Book one that is now archieved we included the links to Nicholas Plamel the real 14th-century alchemist. If you go into the the archieved books you can still find that discussion. Although they are archieved with the last heading all the links are included.

Sorry still waiting for the help needed to get the fourth book up and going.

For months the 4 Potter books have taken up spaces on the Hardback Best Sellers - Fiction list in the WASHINGTON POST Book World published every Sunday. Two of them have been taking spaces on the Paperback Best Sellers - Fiction list in the same publication.

Well, today the Potter books are not listed AT ALL! I can only assume, since they cannot have dropped off so completely and so swiftly, that the POST made a deliberate decision to remove them. However, examining my paper with almost a magnifying glass, I find no word about this. Nor do I find a "Children's" book list such as the NEW YORK TIMES started for this very purpose.

Will let you know if I find a story on this.

I have enjoyed all of the Harry Potter books and have invested in the tapes for long trips. I think the reader on the tapes is terrific. He has given the books the inflection and enthusiasm that I imagined when I read them to myself. I have some very long trips this summer across PA and PA to Georgia, so the tapes have been great company and made the car trips fun. Does anyone know of other audio tapes that are good for long road trips? The comment made about Harry breaking rules brought me up short. I have always been a "wave-maker" and realize that I also break "rules." We have so many double messages in this society for our children, this rule-bending really does create problems. I think our children just figure if it's for a good cause and/or you don't get caught, anything goes. There is clearly "good vs. evil" in Harry Potter books, but how easily we can rationize that the end justifies the means! I am not a ridged ruler minder, but have found it is problematic with young people.

Welcome to the discussion Pemelope, so glad you found us and Good Question! -- I wondered also how a child dertermains when to break a rule and when not.

I can understand not wanting children to be so obediant of authority that we recreate the German model of authority that eventually led to there need for saving after the disabilitating circumstances after WWI that they easily followed an Authority figure as their savior. Teaching children to make choices which is the definition of a civilized person seems to me to either means trial and error on their part or a more democractic system in school and home where their choices can be discussed or understood as a learning curve. Of course if parants and children were reading these books together and are discussing their opinions and considering the significance of Harry and his friend chioces they may be determaining a way of action that each family would agree upon.

I know so much of childrens experience is as if we were trying to tame a primitive being with savage inclinations. Example books like "Lord of the Flies" depict children left on their own to revert to this primitive and savage nature.

I'm not really comfortable with that view. And yet I agree there are some rules that could be dangerous for the safty of a child to consider breaking. I think kids are smarter than we give them credit for and they can probably sense by our reaction which rules are not opened for discussion.

I do know daughter's children have been tought how to find their integrity, where they feel it and what behavior comes from that integrity so that the usual punishment or even the exchange of pennies or earning candy or points in school is confusing for them and they have no association with that concept.

An example my youngest grandboy is 6 and in the first grade. The class used a penny system of recieving if certain behavior or excellant work was achieved and the giving to the teacher pennies if behavior was not approved. Well Cade talked during class and talked evidently quite loudly and was asked for a penny. He reaches in the jar and gives the teacher a handfull of pennies. It had no meaning for him also I learned this summer when they were visiting and doing a job of clearing the patio, that our concept of money and kids today is so different. I was thinking change and had 70¢ in my purse. Ty age 9 says its OK Grandma we don't need any money and I look at him saying something like I agreed to pay them. In all innocense he says Grandma you can't buy anything with that kind of money. You need paper money to buy anything and proceeds to pull out a fabric type wallet with about $7 in single bills to show me.Cade standing next to him at the time is shaking his head saying yes that is right Grandma.

And so the pennies really have no value to Cade as an exchange of money or as a way to monitor behavior. It took my daughter visiting with the teacher to help her understand the concept. Of course both my daughter and I having gone to Catholic schools as a children we didn't use the workd integrity but did speak obout either our Gardian Angle looking on or the goodness inside us that was God given. Today in a public school God is not longer spoken about but integrity is a word that covers similar feelings and is what my daughter is using to get across the message of their self worth and responsiblity to others. I admire the concept she has choisen to give them the basics for a successful life with themselves and society.

It could be that the children reading the Harry Potter books are learning so much about friendship and courage and a desire for excellance that those virtues learned outway the concept of rule breaking. Also, how many books we have read, usually lite novels in which the hero or heroine break rules that we would never imagine breaking ourselves but it is fun to read about someone that risks breaking those rules. It could be as simple as that-- that children also like reading about a rule breaker that they would never risk themselves breaking rules.

I did buy the tapes for book 4 and yes, it had been a delight hearing them as I drove back and forth from the coast this summer. I am often in the car for 45 minutes at a time and so I continue listening rather than reading this monster size book. I'm nearly finished hearing book 4. I'm up to tape 9. I love hearing the various voices the reader is assuming.

Hopefully soon we really will have the site opened for book 4. Hope you stay with us and please, let's hear your thoughts. We usually find we have some in common and some we do not agree with each other. That is how we get to know another view of the same story. So please add to our understanding of life and children with your thoughts. PenelopeA do you have any Grandchildren? How did you become aquainted with the books?

The Harry Potter books are by no means the first ones in which a child (or children) break "the rules" in one way or another.

I can remember that Nancy Drew and The Hardy Boys had to "break the rules" all the time in order to do their detecting. I remember getting a kick out of Rudyard Kipling's "Stalky & Co." when they snuck out of the school at night. I'll bet that between us we can think of hundreds of books in which it is an important part of the story that children break some rules.

Actually, I get an overall impression of 3 really good kids here in the Potter books. Respectful of their elders, except where the elders are cruel, insensitive, evil, etc. What do the critics want? They want every child to fully obey every teacher? Every parent or guardian? What about the ones who instruct the child to engage in sex with them and TELL NO ONE??!!

MaryPage did you ever get to the bottom of why the Harry Potter books are no where to be found in the Best Seller Lists? It is like they have dropped off the face of the earth. I know the literary critiques were having as much trouble with them being on the list as the Christian Right was having their problems seeing the magic as Satan driven.

Need to look on some of my British links and see if they have disappered from their Best Selling lists also.

Although, I must say I am not hearing as much frenzzy from the children either the way they were abuss over Harry Potter last year. So many have actually read and completed book four it is absolutly amazing. Ten, elven and twelve year olds finishing that large tome! But I haven't heard of another craze taking Harry's place either and the Pokeman craze has slowed way down also. So maybe the HP sales have slowed with the rush being this summer.

Hi all. I just wanted you to know that Deb and I rode on the back of Harry's Quidditch broom to a Bosom Buddie's Anniversary celebration in Tahiti yesterday. It was quite a thrilling ride, although awfully fast. I really had to hold on tight, especially when Harry dropped down to the beach for a landing! Sue

Regarding why the Potter books have been dropped from the Best Seller lists... I read that some publishers' organization [or maybe the NY Times?] decided to begin a Best Sellers List for children's books! This list rarely appears in newspapers but I saw one somewhere showing Potter #1, #2, #3, and #4!

They did this because a lot of $$$$$ as well as prestige and free advertising is enjoyed by both publishers and authors when one of their books makes this List and they were sick and tired of seeing 4 out of 10 slots going to the Potter books! I think it was when #4 hit the stores that this decision was made.

Jeryn, I think you are at least 75% correct.

I know for a fact it was a decision of THE NEW YORK TIMES to set up a special, never-been-done-before, "Childrens' Books Best Seller List". This in order to be "fair" to other fiction authors!

But THE TIMES announced loudly and printed out that they were going to do this, and then that they had, indeed, accomplished it.

THE WASHINGTON POST, to the best of my knowledge (I regret to disillusion you all, as I am certain I have convinced you otherwise, or so at least was my intention, but I am NOT perfect!), and I have searched and searched for their remarks, has not mentioned what they have done.

Perhaps Jeryn is right and some publishing GROUP made such a change. In any event, I have NOT seen a "Childrens' Books Best Seller List" in THE WASHINGTON POST.

Shesh everyone has their concept of "fair" I guess. Of course we can't have children's taste rule the lists. Golly they have a phenomina and they just don't like it.

I haven't been around much lately - started a new job. I have loaned my tapes to a friend who listened to them with her children. It was wonderful to see how excited she got. We're both wondering when #5 will come out!! I got started on the Harry Potter books because my oldest daughter, Caitlyn, gave me #1 and told me I'd like it. She has actually expanded my reading way beyond my youth! She's 25 and in college in Pittsburgh and has been an avid reading from day one. I'm probably the only mother I know who yelled at her daughter for reading too much!! She's a delight and very outgoing and full of knowledge. My 17year daughter usually never finishes books. Harry Potter is the first book and book on tape that she wanted to listen to instead of talking or playing her music! Even my 19 year son, who thought I was nuts for reading these kiddie books has been listening to the tapes. When I finished book #4 I couldn't wait to talk to someone about it. Fudge - and his way of not dealing with the return of Valdemort reminded me so much of authority figures in government, churches, schools and the courts, I wanted to scream. It's so much easier to pretend that the problem doesn't exist than it is to deal with it! I'm also hoping we get to know the real Mad-eye Moody...and how di such an evil kid pretend to be so likeable as Moody? Enough...I'll check in here again...yes - I do have 2 grandaughters and am concerned that they are not read to enough...one is 2 and the other only 7 months. However, the 2 year old is a video-child and I have don't get to see them enough to get her used to being read to. I got to work on it alittle this Summer and am hoping to get more time with her to read.

Oh, oh, oh! Turned on the Today show after GMA this a.m. to learn that Rowlings had BEEN on there, and I missed her! Did anyone catch her? They said she is on the NBC web site this week and will be BACK ON THE TODAY SHOW FRIDAY.

I saw it. It was fabulous!!!!!!! She answered questions posed by the children. An English gent read from the Goblet of Fire. They actually had a beautiful white owl perched outside ,with them where they read.

D--N! That is TWICE today I have been jealous of you, ALF!

I think you lead a charmed life!

I saw the TODAY broadcast featuring Joann Rowling too! The most interesting part to me was the revelation of the Title of Her Next Book!!!! Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. She refused to even predict a time frame...

Was she telling the English title? Or is that to be the American one?

She wasn't even sure it was THE one! Very hesitant, she was, to answer the child. Who knows what it will finally be, here OR there.

Then she was probably telling the title she is writing it under, which will be the British title unless the publishers change it.

I am still only half way through Book 4, but anxious to begin the discussion of it!

Missed the interviews - I would love to hear her voice. MaryPage what are you up to in book four? I finally finished it last week but I cheated this time and listened to the book on tape. It was great to hear the correct way of pronouncing the names but I found I forgot who did what when and who is who that was talked about at the world quitich match and then if and when they come up later. It was great though to actually hear Voldemort and right in the beginning at that. I think I have to review by scheming the book to put everything in place in my mind. Some of book three and book four are also sliding together in my mind so that I am having a hard time remembering who did what when.

Went to the book store tonight for the first time since July and suprised to see posters and calandars with Harry Potter graphics. Somehow I was not impressed with the posters.

Alf I bet if the owl was white it was a snowy owl. How elegant.

The order of the Phoenix Jeryn - wow she is really pulling in all the traditional symbolisms to literature isn't she. I wonder how Harry will rise again-- I can see Lord Voldermort rising since Book four leaves us believing he has very little power left after all that in the cemetery. I hope Harry and what ever her name is from the French school do not become smitten, although she appears to be already smitten with Harry. The fact that she is a Vella (do not have it spelled correctly) seems to unreal for our Harry.

I should have time this week to finally get the heading finished for book four. I've only one client that needs to find a house and two that are doing to-be-builts that requires some attention as compared to all I was doing this summer. I'm trying to clean out rooms as well as get files in order but doing a heading you just know is so much more fun. Tomorrow I do have a meeting at the office and than I'm delivering the posters to retail locations for the Texas Book Festival in the afternoon, but Wednesday, as of now, I should have time as I do on Thursday. Much of the heading is finished just need some graphics made into seniornet links and a few pages of information that we can link to rather than have all the seperate links in the heading.

Hello All! I just read my very first Harry Potter book and I am hooked. I loved it. I started another fiction book and when I finish that it is on to book #2.

Penelope I am from the Pittsburgh area. Which one of our colleges is your daughter attending?

Yes, Barb, it was the most elegant of owls sitting their in all of its glory, looking around. It didn't seem the least bit fazed by the children or the noises around him. It really appeared as if it belonged there and was inviting you in.

Yes, the white owl was very tame and very gorgeous. A nice touch, I agree, ALF. What did you think of the old guy's job of reading aloud? I thought he/they chose a rather repugnant passage but I suppose the kids love it?!

Jer did you see the look on those kid's faces? They were absolutely enthralled!!!! Who the heck was that Brit that did the reading? He did a fabulous job!!! Betcha we'll hear a lot more of him...

Hi everyone,

I am new to this discussion. I just finished reading the third book and felt it was my favorate out of the previous two. My 11 year old neice reads "Potter's" books and then passes them on to me. Maybe these books are geared to the younger generation (children), but I must admit at age 61 I enjoyed reading them also. My niece Rachel is on the 4th book and I have to wait (sigh). One other thing I though was interesting in the second book, when the book got to the place that talked about the giant spiders, Rachel, quit reading and wouldn't finish the book even when I explained the scary parts to her. She just skipped the rest and went on to the next book....interesting, I tried to imagine an 11 year olds fright and I found I could relate on her level completely. I don't care for spiders anyway, having been bitten by a black widow as a child. However, as an adult I can seperate the story from truth and in Rachel's place I think that was hard for her to do, Potter's books have a lot of imagination, many places a child could believe the written words were the truth.

Waiting for the 4th book..................

There are some things I will put down and not continue reading as well. Not spiders, but various situations and types of people. I absolutely hated the flying monkeys in the Wizard of Oz. We each of us know what we do not tolerate well within us. If you feel real revulsion, you just do not want to torture yourself. Reading is supposed to be enjoyable.

What amazes me is that children today do not seem to be freightened by the movies. I remember my sister was age 4 and I was 6 and a half when we saw Snow White. We were so freightened of the witch queen we cried and in terror cried all the louder till my mother finally had to take us out of the theater until we calmed down. After a drink of water we went back, sitting on either side of her so that we could bury our faces in her arms when the witch or her voice came on screen again. Other movies, until I was probably age 12, we would shut our eyes asking to be told when it would be safe to open them again.

I must say to this day I do not read the Stephan King stuff or see those kind of movies-- still haven't seen Silence of the Lambs either but the kids do not seem to be as affected-- it seems to take a lot to scare them.

Did you see they have a wonderful new annotated edition out of the Oz books. For some reason I did not have access to Baum's books when I was a child but I do remember feeling scared during the cemetary scene in Treasure Island and so much anxiety worrying if the Scarlet Pimpernal would get away.

Maril interesting that you liked the second book best. You are the first person I have heard that rates it better than book one. Both discussion are in the archieve folder. I remember being facinated that the car was a collectable antique in Britian. The link to the web site for the car is in the heading of the archieved Book Two if you are interested.

Aren't children wonderful-- aside from their wonder I learned so much as a result of my children's interests and now I'm learning again because of grands. They truly keep us active don't they.

I can recall from childhood occured following a visit to the Wizard of Oz with my mother. I was about 4. I still have a vivid picture in my mind of my dream and of what my mother told me when I woke up crying and screaming. I dreamed that the Wicked Witch was standing on the top of our house in the shiny red shoes cackling and planning to catch me.

Barbara, I agree that scary scenes in movies can be terribly frightening to children and adults. If I read something scary, I can control my mind picture of it. If I see it on the screen, I have to accept the picture I see. I avoid gruesome movies, but have enjoyed reading some of the books they have been based on. Sue

Myself, I've always had a hankering for the macabre. I loved the Frankenstein, Dracula & werewolf movies as a kid. I scared myself nearly to death with Inner Sanctum, Hitchcock, whatever got my blood to boiling point. The ONLY thing that I can NOT do is LISTEN. I never close my eyes, I close my ears. I want to be able to face the fear, I can not stand the music that accompanies the fright I am about to witness.

This is so interesting about the memories of fear we each have! I, like Barbara, had to hide my eyes in Daddy's lap during the witch scenes of "Snow White" which was the first movie I remember ever seeing.

Interestingly enough, my son had nightmares occasionally for many moons after seeing "The Wizard of Oz" on TV! But HIS son, my grandson, has never been afraid of anything that I could see! Is it all the exposure to TV and movies from an earlier age? Some of the stuff HE watches scares ME even now!

I read Silence of the Lambs but would avoid the movie like the plague! Another pulse quickener of adult interest: The Stepford Wives. I saw the movie but it was blah compared to the book!

Just for the record or if we're voting, I greatly preferred HP and The Prisoner of Azkaban to either of the earlier ones. And number four ranks ... well, we haven't discussed it yet, have we?! I'll wait...

Now that we have mute on our remotes, I mute any movie where a killer is stalking someone, or something else spooky or scary is going on. I find it does not make my heart thump so hard and fast if that awful suspenseful scary MUSIC is not on. A lot of the time, there is no real dialogue to miss, but the music is calculated to increase the fear within you. No music, no sweat! You can SEE what happens.

This from our morning newpaper today:

J.K. Rowling ... at the International Festival of Authors in Toronto, responding to an audience member who asked whether her books encourage Satanism... [said] "No. You are a lunatic."

Hear! Hear!

When she was asked during that interview about satanism she said something like ," When a fool looks into a mirror (a book) you can't expect a genius to look back out at him." Paraphrased, of course, but I loved that.

Gal has a gift for repartee, certainly, and brooks no nonsense. It was a treat to see her on TV the other day, wasn't it ALF?

I loved it (almost as much fun as your party, Jer.)

Yeh, that was a hoot, wasn't it ALF?

I have to give that young thing (still in her twenties!) her due. She is a word and imagination genius the equal of Hans Christian Anderson and A.A. Milne. A real, live, big time GENIUS!

I have read all 4 of the books and really enjoyed them. my grandkids are trying to read them but grandma speed reads so they want to know the endings which I don't tell. I was a great fan of the Hobbit series and I guess I'm a big kid at heart if not in age. keep the fantasy books coming and let me know if there are others I would like.

Haven't read the Ring yet but did read the Hobbit and again it is really an adult theme on the level of a child's fantasy isn't it -- another series I want to read is about the mice, the Redwell series -- I beleive there are at now 13 books written by Brian Jacques.

Here is a review of the latest book out this Christmas:

Lord Brocktree, the 13th novel in Brian Jacques's exciting Redwall series, brings to life the tale of how the greatest badger lord of all came to save Salamandastron, the mountain home of many heroic creatures. Every beast will love heroic Lord Brocktree and his amazing adventure.

As the story opens, the villainous Ungatt Trunn, a menacing wildcat, has brought his powers to bear on Salamandastron, threatening the peace-loving beasts who live there.

Loneliness was everywhere. Hopelessness and an air of foreboding had settled over the western shores, casting their pall over land, sea and the mountain of Salamandastron. Yet nobeast knew the cause of it.

But all is not lost. Old Lord Stonepaw, the venerable Badger Ruler, summons the strongest of the strong to take over as lord of the mountain fortress and battle the evil wildcat. Lord Brocktree, far away from the trouble, begins to have visions that beckon him to Salamandastron. He travels there with his companion, a young haremaid named Dotti. But can he raise an army in time to smash Ungatt Trunn's terrifying Blue Hordes?

Like all the Redwall books, Lord Brocktree is a rollicking tale of adventure, war, magic, and beastly battles. The animal characters are sometimes brusque and brutal, and there's a strong current of darkness in the stories, as well as no-nonsense death scenes and strong language. But for fans of medieval fantasy adventure with a twist, this unforgettable series continues to satisfy. (Ages 9 and older) --Theresa Littleton

Than there is the Alanna series-- Alanna:The First Adventure (The Song of the Lioness Quartet, Book 1)

Becoming a legend is not easy, as young Alanna of Trebond discovers when she disguises herself as a boy and begins training to be a knight. Alanna's skills and stubborness help her befriend Prince Jonathan and alienate his evil uncle, Duke Roger. Filled with swords and sorcery, adventure and intrigue, good and evil, this book is a rousing introduction to the intensely satisfying story of Alanna.

OF course the old favorites like: Watership Down by Richard Adams --

Follow the adventures of rabbits seeking a place called home.

The Lost Years of Merlin (Lost Years of Merlin, No 1) by T. A. Barron--

Merlins boy hood comes to life in a tumble of adventure! Read the rest!

The Annotated Wizard of Oz: by L. Frank Baum--

The fun doesn't end with the movie - return to Oz again and again!

Dealing With Dragons by Patricia C. Wrede

--Princess Cimorene runs away to live with dragons to escape boring palace life. Great heroine and adventures!

Wild Magic (The Immortals Series , No 1) by Tamora Pierce --

The Immortals #1- Daine has a magical connection to animals that might save her country and friends from the evil monsters and their allies! Makes you feel like you're there!

The Princess and the Goblin by George MacDonald --

About a princess and a strange subterranean world!

The Chronicles of Narnia: The Magician's Nephew; The Lion,the Witch, and the Wardrobe; The Horse and His Boy; Prince Caspian; The Voyage of the Dawn Treader; The Silver Chair; and The Last Battle by C. S. Lewis--

Narnia: A masterpiece of wit, humour, insight, adventure, and fantasy!

The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley--

This book introduces the reader to Daria--where a truly wonderful heroine discovers the adventure she's been waiting for her whole life. Also the prequel, The Hero & the Crown.

The Golden Compass by Philip Pullman --

The first in the His Dark Materials Trilogy. Join Lyra Silvertongue on an adventure that will lead her across the globe and out of this world. Book three is definetly for an adult.

A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle--

This first book in L'Engle's Time Quartet introduces you to Meg and her brother Charles Wallace who go on a journey through space and time on the rescue mission of a lifetime. Some in her series are for the older teen.

The Dark Is Rising Sequence/Silver on the Tree/The Grey King/Greenwitch/The Dark Is Rising/Over Sea, Under Stone by Susan Cooper--

Cooper's sequence tells of the ultimate battle between good and evil. The characters are likeable, and the mythological references add a great richness to the stories.

And my very favorite the Wind and the Willows continued by William Horwood with permission by the Grahame family ...The Willows in Winter, Toad Triumphant, The Willows and Beyond--

The story of four main character animal friends and their mis-adventures in the wildwood, the surrounding area and on the river.

Not a series but... The Little Prince by Antoine De Saint-Exupery--

Everyone should meet the Little Prince and learn how important it is that a sheep has not eaten a flower and discover what it means to become tame.

The Book of Three (Alexander, Lloyd. Chronicles of Prydain 5 books) by Lloyd Alexander --

The first of the Prydain Chronicles, The Black Cauldron--The second (and best) of the Prydain Chronicles

Gosh never thought till now-- we could finish the Harry Potter book four and start to read from other series couldn't we.

Doubt it! We haven't started discussing Book Four yet, and Book Five will probably be out in 2001!

Welcome sat. We are anxious to get started with book # 4. It'll probably be after the holidays, so why don't you join in on our discussion. Barb leads a lively discussion and fills us full of facts. She's my favorite researcher. If Barb can't find it, it can't be found.

Hi, just found your message board today! Reading about the scary memories reminded me of my own childhood. For me it was Ichabod Crane in Disney's "The Tale of the Headless Horseman". I was about eight years old and found this very discomforting, with "bad dreams" that night. I must have wrestled very hard with this, because I can't think of another movie after that that affected me that way. I guess I just "grew up". Now, if the subject of a movie affects me very intensely I just think about it for three days or so, and that's how I know it was closer to my heart than I thought at first. That goes for all genres.

Am I to suppose that the way this board works is to read the book suggested and comment on it? I first heard Harry Potter on audio book when I was riding with a friend of a friend. I have yet to actually READ a Harry Potter book as I can't find one in any library I belong to. I guess I will have to break down and buy one.

Well, ta-ta. Nice to meet you all. Carol

singagain : Hello, hello and welcome! Why not check out the next Harry Potter story from your library? We will be starting it in the near future and would love to have you join us. Also check out our other book sites and introduce yourself:click here

email coming your way.

Andrea

Welcome singagain We had read both Book one and Book two and this was the discussion about Book Three. IN the Archieved books at the bottom of the list you can find the discussions we had about both Books one and two. singagain most of us read the book as the discussion opens and the focus questions change as we get into the book - everyone has been impatiantly wondering when I was going to get Book four up and running - I'm working on it now and almost have it complete - so please come on back and join us for Book Four.

I ended up listening to Book Four on tape and it had its pluses and minuses so that I will probably re-read the book as we discuss it. There are a few threads of information that help to know about by having read the books in order but, you could just jump in on Book four and be OK with only one or two pieces of information. If you join us and chose to go ahead with Book Four we will help you out.

These books are a delight and grounded in literary references. Very few libraries seem to have them - still, anything the book stores have to sell is sold quicker than you can believe. I just last week was in the Barnes and Noble in College Station where they had about five or 6 designs of mugs for sale - well I was back tuesday night for my grandsons band concert and all but two mugs in one design had sold. Here in Austin where I live they didn't even attempt to carry the mugs and still, as fast as they get the books in they are cleaned out in a week. Surprise of surprises is that Sams Club often has the books at a much reduced prices.

singagain I'm going to send your name to the powers that be on the seniornet site and you should be receiving some further information to make your visits with us easier and more enjoyable. Welcome again, hope to see you chosing to read and posting with some of other books.

I am now, despite all the demands of having just moved and the holidays, on page 586 of Harry Potter 4, and raring to get into a conversation. I am more convinced than ever, and this was my conviction upon finishing Book One, that Harry will wind up with Ron's sister, Ginny, and Ron and Hermione will be a pair.

It becomes ever more clear in Book 4 that Harry has powers he is not yet aware of, but which are above and beyond anything the other wizards have. I think Dumbledore and a few others who are guarding Harry as closely as they can, have already figured this out.

These books are SO CLEAN and SO MORAL that I continue to marvel at the factions that are claiming they are "of Satan". Do you suppose they have actually read any of these books?

hehe probably not Marypage - someone just needed food for a new sermon one Sunday or...the ladies Guild were tying to have a chat about the "awfulness" of children one day and voilá we have Satan between the pages of the latest craze just because it is a craze...folks just love to be outragous and so the deploring book was baned as the awfulness gossip traveled the underground highway only known to the conservative right.

Amen, Sister!

Honestly, I am NOT pushing, just curious, when will we begin this next one? I don't want to read too far ahead, yet, it is so tempting just sitting there, calling to me "Andy, come read me!" I will obey the rules and wait.

I couldn't wait! I thought the discussion of #4 would start in early September. Anyhow, I finished it and gave it to my grandson for his birthday September 23! I hope my memory will be good enough...

I am trying, in the few moments I can snatch from a busy, busy time, to get finished with Book 4 and wrap it up as a Christmas present to my 7 year old GREAT granddaughter Emily in Missouri. Am on page 602 and hope to finish up this weekend and mail it off on Monday, if we don't have snow. I have SO many comments to make about the realities of life that children are being taught from this magical fairy tale saga about this Harry Potter and his friends. It will be difficult making some points without the book at hand, but that is the same way I had to discuss the other 3.

Finished or not I'm attenpting to tomorrow to get the folks that need to look it over to to get the heading looked at and hopefully that done it should go up Sunday - It will not be 100% completed but what isn't complete I can do later -

I'm working on it really and truly and I thought we would be ready today but yes, as you know we are volunteers and I'm still a working girl - business unexpectedly took up most of yesterday -

I worked on it very late last night and will again tonight but Today is my only chance to see my son and his family if I am going to see my grands in College Station before Christmas. When I get back tonight I will continue to work on the clickable pages and than it still must all be looked at, varified by those that prepare headings.

So where I thought it would be all done today it will not but it will be done shortly - it is now my priority after work and family.

Not to worry, Barbara. Life is not normal when you sell real estate! Nor is it anywhere close to normal in the holiday season. Hey, take your time!

Sure, we can wait. And I bet it will be worth waiting for!

Just got in - thanks for the support folks - had Christmas in College Station and we had a great day - went and got the tree, had a wonderful pot roast that for me is such the treat, living alone you don't cook pot roast - and than we exchanged gifts under the green fresh tree apre lights and decoration. The boys were estatic with their new skooters and fleese vests with matching shirts - they quickly doned the vests and knowing just how to snap those skooters in place tried them out in front of the house and later they went round the island and then the large table in the kitchen. Of course quickly the vests came off since it was 76° even after dark today. Since they each also received a book we settled down to look them over and make plans how and when to read their books. A bit of chocolate each and the advant wreathe candles were blown out - it was a wonderful memorable day.

I leave for my daughter's in South Carolina Thursday and do not return till the 28th - she has a great computer hook up and a PC at that so it is always so easy for me to post when I am visiting - they have the satalite connection so everything goes zippity fast.

Well off to orgainze for bed and catch up with messages -

Pat W. is already hard at work helping with the graphics etc. for the site - I'm excited about the different look - rather than have all those links in the heading, Pat shrank a bunch of graphics for me that will be buttons that will lead to pages that will have the focus questions by clicking on one button and the other buttons will have the other research links - This way we will have a very short heading so that we can get to the posts without miles of heading to wade through each time.

Well, I've cheated! I am fessing up. I am on chapter 5 . Oh how I love that child.

Me, as well. I'm now on page 612 and I've read our new "short story" and finished my Christmas cards and all! nyeh! nyeh! nyeh!

Jeepers MP: I am duly impresssed with your efficency. Isn't this a good one?

My amazon delivery ARRIVED! I ordered this special book about reading and getting the most out of the Potter books for students, teachers, parants and homeschoolers - Also ordered this cataloge with the value of all the Potter paraphenalia available all over the world and something about the background of the artists that did the various covers.

Would y'all believe someone I worked with last winter just called and wants to buy a house the saw - shoot I love my job but it is like being on emergency call at the ER. Gotta run and take care of her especially since she is the neighbor of the son of my very best friend in the whole world. - we are getting closer to having the heading up and we'll just share what ever so read on MacDuffs read on - This is a huge tome with lots to chat about -

Mary what we could do is give a synopsis of each chapter in one of the links as we go along so that you're not having the book to refer to will not be as difficult.

Barb: Great idea: When can we talk about the Riddle House?

Being an old time ER nurse, go with speed -- we understand.

My grandchildren are too small to understand Harry Potter. I am fascinated with what I know about the story. As an adult, I would love to read it.

Is it alright for me to read it, as an adult, for my own enjoyment?

HATS

Hats, these books were REALLY written for adults! Seriously. The wonderful author said so herself. She said she wrote them for herself and no one else.

They are quite, quite wonderful and I have read all 4. There are to be 7. In the first one, Harry is 11 and goes off to an English boarding school in Scotland. Each year a new book comes out, and he is one year older and in the next higher class. It is the equivalent of our 6th through 12 grades. Everything is perfectly normal and just exactly like the real British boarding schools, except that this one is both coed and magical. The courses they take are not quite the conventional ones. Neither are the games they play, but I guarantee you will fall in love with quidditch! Oh, their sweets are not quite the same ones we know, either.

These books make up one story of one little boy's growing up. They are morality tales, like the ones of old. Harry increasingly has to deal with the bad things we all have had to face in our lives. True, his come in different forms, but really, after you have read a book and thought about it, the author is just making magic and make believe around real life relationships and tragedies.

p.s. I'm 71, and can't wait for book number 5!

MaryPage, I am so excited. You said everything I wanted you to say. I just ordered Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone from Literary Guild. I could have gotten it from the library, but I felt it would be like Little Women and Alice in Wonderland. I would want my own copy.

Thank you for answering so quickly.

HATS

I am so glad to read all the notes from our older generation about enjoying Harry Potter. makes me feel like I am not so different ,my family sometimes wonders about my reading habits but what can I say? I really enjoy these books. Shirley T.

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire for the second time. When are we going to start that discussion? My librarians have given me permission to keep it for a while so that I can participate. I own the first 2 and am looking for #3 and #4 in paperback. Sue

The Goblet will be up soon... Barbara has been dilligently working on it even though she is spending Christmas with her grandchildren.. After all, we know that grandchikdren come first, and they should.

I think I remember that Barbara said we'd start after the holidays, but as usual it had slipped my mind. Boy, these senior moments are becoming a real nuisance! Sue

ITS UP - NOT COMPLETE BUT UP - YES THE GOBLETS OF FIRE IS UP - there will be more linkable pages with information about ghostly castles - wizards and many many links to Potter links and myths on and on - much is started but visiting here at my daughters and spending much time that I than lost all of a days research needless to say it has been fun and games -

I'm home on my precious Mac by next weekend and the site will be worked on getting it into super shape - lots of help from lots of folks

This discussion will be archieved probably tomorrow so come on over and lets get started with our long awaited discussion Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

And did you know that in Britain the books are also published with a different cover just for adults!

Clarification: Due to various circumstances, the other Harry Potter books were not discussed on SeniorNet.