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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
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This is mostly to mark my place however, it appears from everything advertised and that I can read Downton Abbey in January is to be a repeat of what we have seen already - it would be so grand if we get to see the next series - I thought maybe the repeat was setting us up for the second series - maybe they have decided to do things differently here in Austin - we shall see what we shall see...
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X marks my spot
Sally
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Looking forward to these shows, even the repeats.
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Excellent line-up.
Ah, I see we must wait until January to view Season 2.
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Since Downton Abbey was so popular, I would think that most PBS stations would show season 2 during the national broadcast timeframe, from January 8 to February 19, 2012.
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I am here. Speaking of classics, while we are treading water here, so to speak, I watched the film of the newish JANE EYRE last night. Got it in the Red Box (Netflex) at my grocery store. Cost me all of $1.06 to view it! I had not gone to the movie when it was in the theatres, as I have seen every Jane Eyre ever done on film over the years, and there must have been a dozen or so. Each one has had a slightly different take on it, but most have been quite good. If I love a story and have read it more than once, as is the case with this great classic, I dearly love seeing the different films. I can highly recommend this one. It, once again, has a slightly different take and has changed a bit here, twigged a bit there, but none of it annoying at all. The very best thing about this one is the cinemaphotography. THAT is OUTstanding! The young woman who plays Jane Eyre is quite amazing, as well. And of course, last but not least, it has our very favorite Dame Judi Dench as Mrs. Fairfax, the housekeeper. I don't need to mention she is great in the part, because your own experience of her will assure you of that.
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I'm here for the first time, eager to get back to Downton Abbey. what IS it that so fascintates us with the English aristocracy?
Also, Jane Eyre lovers might like "Wide Sargasso Sea" the novel (1920's) by jean Rhys which tells the story from the point of view of Rochester's first wife. I believe it was made into a film, goo, but not sure. _
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:)
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I just lost what I was going to post. So frustrating! In short, I said that I'm leaving for a two week vacation tomorrow morning, so I won't be able to see Return to Cranford, but hopefully PBS will have it available for viewing on their website shortly after it's over.
I'm going to watch the original Downton Abbey so I can refresh my memory as to story and characters. And I'll definitely be watching the new episodes in January!
Nancy
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Have a wonderful vacation Nancy.
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I hope you have a great vacation, Nancy.
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Did anyone watch both Season one and 2 of "InTreatment"? with Gabriel Byrne. I can't wait to get Season three. Is it out yet?
?
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I have never heard of Intreatment. What network was it on and what is it about?
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I have not heard of the show either but I sure like Gabriel Byrne - a sadness and vulnerability about him - so not a heartthrob but an interesting Irish face and mannerisms.
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I've seen Gabriel Byrne in several movies, but the one that stuck in my mind is Point of No Return.
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Oh I was so excited to get the Book Bytes and learn that tomorrow? In some areas of the country Downton Abbey is coming back! And if not tomorrow here then January 8 for sure! What a joy, especially now that my oldest got my old VCR machine working, such excitement!
I'm going to watch the old one again before January so I can tell what's happening, I got pretty lost in the last one but it was complicated, I thought. I am very interested to see what happens to the young heir.
Thank you Marcie for the Bytes, I'm glad we can come here and stay up on the news. :)
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Thanks for the wishes for a great vacation. I went on a 12-night cruise to the Caribbean and returned home this afternoon. The islands were spectacular and the ship was glorious. I'm very happy to be home, however. Almost two weeks is too long for me to be gone. While I was away my new little dog got even with me for leaving by destroying a few of my things.
Tomorrow I'm going to try to find The Return to Cranford and watch it online. As for Downton Abbey, has anyone found out if the showing in January is another repeat of the first?
Nancy
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Here is the schedule Nancy. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html
Season 2 starts Jan. 8. The next three weeks will cover the Season 1 repeat. I am excited to see Great Expectations and The Mystery of Edwin Drood on the schedule too. David Suchet is in Great Expectations. I wonder what part he will play.
PS: Glad you had a nice time.
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"Downton Abbey" will be on our PBS station tonight from 7pm to 10pm. and then they say the Second series in January. I will watch it again tonight just to remember what happened. (I do have the DVD set of the 1st part.) I think it was a gift last Christmas or maybe Christmas Before.
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Yes, season 2 of Downton Abbey will be broadcast January 8 to February 19, 2012.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/latin/graphics/Graphics/holly.gif)JeanneP, thank you, I saw your note just in time to catch the 8-9 pm episode (I have them on tape too and have promised self a couple of night's treat by the fire before January 8 gets here). (Had to turn it off at 9 to see who won the Iron Chef thing which I have not been following but I really like Geoffrey Zakarian, of Chopped, and was glued to the set from 9-10 to see him win) :) . A tip of the hat to the 52 year old white haired chef, with the old fashioned black glasses!!
It's nice to see somebody who appears to have a little age go up against the great younger modern chefs of our day in 2011 and win!
But isn't the old Downton absolutely wonderful, tho? So many nuances I actually did not notice the first time, it now makes perfect sense, it's really good. I have no idea why I thought the two oldest girls were ugly, or at best, homely, they aren't, at all!
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Marking my place. I've enjoyed the repeat of "Cranford" and am enjoying the repeats of Season 1 of "Downton Abbey".
A local art theater had a "sneak preview" showing of Downton Abbey's Season 2. I haven't seen a Review, so don't know if it was like a full-length movie.
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That's interesting about the sneak preview of Downton Abbey 2. There is a minute-and-a-half preview at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html
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I'll be watching with you.
Evelyn
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It will be good to have you join us, Evelyn!
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HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
http://www.humorsphere.com/fun/8787/colortest.swf
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Good one, MaryPage.
I got wind of a Downton Abbey Christmas Special which, I suppose, we won't get to see until next winter. Read a blog or two about it and saw some clips. The timeline puts is after Season 2. More to look forward to. I wonder if this means a Season 3 is in the works?
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MaryPage, that was harder than I thought it would be! Thanks.
Frybabe, that will be good if there is more. PBS most always creates better programs than most that are offered on other channels.
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I am watching "Downton Abbey", for the first time. It is wonderful! It is shown here, on Sunday evenings. Time feels as if it is taking much longer from Sunday to Sunday.
I always tape Masterpiece each week. So, I have no idea, how I missed this series the first time around. So far, it reminds me a lot of "Upstairs, Downstairs". Which is one of my all time favorites. So, I am watching it, again.
Sheila
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Sheila, I'm glad you are getting to see Downton Abbey. Just in time for the second season, too!
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Greetings,
On Saturday, 31 Dec. our local PBS station is showing all four first season episodes of Downton Abby back to back starting at 1pm and running until 7 pm. An alternative to the 5 college football bowl games that day. It'll be nice to see them in sequence without a week between. Will get my snacks and needlework ready for the day. That program will be followed by the New York Philharmonic concert. What a day!
Too bad we can't have a Downton Abby party. There will be plenty of people planning to watch back to back college football bowl games over the weekend with parties.
Mary
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I'm up for a Downton Abbey virtual party! I am not sure that my station is showing these today, lucky you, but they are showing at least one episode, so why ever not? hahaha Thank you for that notice, Mary, I'll tune in anyway at 1 and hope: and maybe the programming notes on the statellite are old.
Entertainment Magazine this week has a huge many pages spread on Downton Abbey and contains many spoilers.
It also contains the news that they begin filming Season 3 in February, so that's good news, it's just like Brideshead or Upstairs Downstairs, apparently, it's caught on, and now it will expand. Great way to ring in the New Year!
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Yes, we can have an ongoing Downton Abbey party here. For those of you who don't see the encore presentation on your TV station, you can watch full episodes of Season One online at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html.
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Before anything else, I would like to wish a healthy and happy New Year to all. I have not been here for ages but have followed the postings sporadically.
I should probably spend more time here than in other pursuits, but inertia usually triumphs. Anyway, Hello Ginny and many more of you whom I have met or read your posts.
As for "Downton Abbey," I loved it from the first, and watched the repeats during December. So many things left hanging they just had to do a second series. And I will here confess that I disliked the new "Upstairs Downstairs" as badly as I liked the original (Is that English?).
And will end with an anecdote that ties in from another series, from last week's "Jeopardy" show. The category was British Novels by Characters. One of the clues was Charles Ryder and Lord and Lady Marchmain. None of the three contestants could identify the novel, which most of us know from the TV series, "Brideshead Revisited," even those who have not read the book (I read it after I had watched it 11 times --I am not exaggerating. A friend of mine who is now 62, named her daughter Julia 31 years ago for the Marchmain's daughter, Julia Flyte. But 30 years later, oh...well!
Apologies for writing so much, after having written nothing for very long.
Zulema in New York.
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Welcome, Zulema. I'm glad that Downton Abbey enticed you here. I watched one of the episodes of Season 1 yesterday to get me caught up. I had meant to watch all of the episodes but I couldn't bring myself for some reason to watch again Sarah O'Brien, Lady Grantham's maid, take out her vengeance (all in her mind) on Lady Grantham and the awful results.
I do want to see what happens to many of the characters including Matthew Crawley, Lady Mary and Lady Sybil and John Bates and Anna Smith.
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Hi, Marcie,
It was even better the second time around, and the final episode I thought was the best, so I am looking forward to this Sunday's beginning of the second part. I hope to participate in the Dickens discussion also.
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Zulema, that's great. We all seem to be in the mood to see season 2. Only a week to go!
I'm glad that you'll be in the Dickens' discussion too. I hope everyone is voting for a favorite Dickens to talk about in February.
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Our PBS is showing the last Season 1 right before the new one this Sunday. Even though I watched it Sunday I might watch it again.
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Can't wait for Season 2 on Sunday. Will then buy it as I already have Season 1. Sure we will enjoy watching them over and over as years pass. Will not surprise me if a Season 3 will not be suggested. The series so popular. Should pass up on "Upstairs Downstairs"I think. Now how many series did it have?
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
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Jeanne,
Wikipedia says: "Upstairs, Downstairs is a British drama television series originally produced by London Weekend Television and revived by the BBC. It ran on ITV in 68 episodes divided into five series from 1971 to 1975, and a sixth series[1] shown on the BBC on three consecutive nights, 26–28 December 2010." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstairs,_Downstairs
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Color me nasty or something, but I do not much like Lady Mary or Lady Edith. I am rooting for Lady Sybil to wind up with Matthew Crawley. It would keep the money and the title in the family, albeit through the female line, and serve her older sisters right for being such vicious pieces of work.
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I agree with you, MaryPage. I don't care for those two either. Although I do sympathize a little with Lady Edith. Middle Child Syndrome is real, and Edith is showing some of the more nasty symptoms in her attempts to one-up or return, tit for tat, Lady Mary's attempts to sabotage her. It did not help that Lady Edith overheard her mother telling Lady Mary to go easy on her because she (Edith) didn't have Mary's "advantages". I forget how she worded it exactly.
I also would like to see O'Brien and Thomas get their comeuppances.
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I have a new "toy", called a Roku. It works with my TV. It has many "apps", including Netflix. For $7.99 per month I can watch numerous movies and programs. I just love it!
Amoung my choices is a section called PBS programs. I just watched the first series calld "Downton Abbey". I watched all episodes of it over two days. What a treat!
Now, I am watching a series called "Grand". It has 18 episodes. I have watched 6 episodes. There are a number of other offerings in the PBS section.''
There are also many other movies, and TV programs available. I am really sold on my Roku, and wanted to tell all of you about it.
Sheila
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I think that the Downton Abbey writers must have to balance presenting sympathetic characters with creating conflict that peaks our interest. I wonder if any of the sisters are going to do an "about face" and show a more appealing side in the future of the series.
Sheila, that Roku sounds like fun. It's great to be able to watch those programs on your TV, rather than on a computer.
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Yesterday, The Washington Post really panned Downton Abbey 2. Ripped it up one side and down the other. Disappointed and saddened me.
But I settled down in my easy chair at two minutes to nine and had a grand two hours. Enjoyed it!
I still like Sybil best.
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I enjoyed it too. The two hours flew by.
I am still hoping that Edith finds someone with whom she can be happy. She so desperately wants the love and attention she feels she isn't getting at home.
I've seen the woman who plays Vera Bates before. I'll have to look her up.
Thomas is up to his old tricks, but I do see some tiny hope of a change as a result of his stint working at the hospital.
Did you think Cora is looking more tired and pale in this episode, or is it just me?
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MaryPage and Frybabe, it's good to know that you are enjoying season 2 despite some negative reviews in the papers. I have a bad cold so didn't stay up to watch it last night but will definitely catch it "on demand" on my cable. The episode is also available online at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html for those of you who might have missed it.
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what a choice last night but I went with Downton Abby - the new season of The Good Wife started last night. The show is often delayed by about a half hour because of the earlier football game but by that time I was glued to Downton -
I am remembering the first show of the first season was not the blockbuster of the series and I am suspecting the same this season where the first show is setting up the dynamics while adding a few characters. Hadn't read any critique of the show one way or the other but something about the time in history and folks trying to adhere to older tradition, especially Richard Carlisle reminded me of parts of Major Pettigrew.
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Yeah, Frybabe, I knew instantly that I'd seen her before also.
I still dislike Edith because she KNEW that farmer was married and his wife had welcomed her and cooked for her and been SO nice to her. Edith, like Mary before her, was being a slut.
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I didn't read the Washington Post review, but it wouldn't have made any difference anyway. I loved it. Carson seems to have a special place in his heart for Mary. He really spoke out, not what one would expect in the butler/family relationship. I vaguely remember something in the first season that made me wonder about Carson and Mary. Anybody else?
I still think Thomas is slimy, but think he was also grieved, and lost someone he cared for and who apparently reciprocated his feelings.
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Yes, Carson is unusually defensive and protective of Mary.
Edith is reactionary. She reacts without thinking too much about the consequences. In the case of farmer Drake, she is reacting to his praise and attention which she apparently didn't get at home. Mary is not much better. The sibling rivalry is intense. Mary seems to feel it is her duty to take Emily's suitors or at least chase them away. Edith reacts with spite. Sybil has a much better sense of herself and what she wants. Notice her causes seem to have substituted for the lack of suitors. Ah, but now she has one, and she discourages him herself.
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On the day of the garden party at the end of Downton Abbey 1, Mary confides in Carson, something she has always done. And he confesses that while he has watched all three girls grow up from infants, he has a special place in his heart for Lady Mary, who was the first baby girl.
His feelings, of course, are not romantic, but paternal.
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BBC ruins Dickens !?! One guy's opinion.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/06/charles-dickens-bbc-howard-jacobson
Brian Williams on NBC news tonight is discussing the popularity of Downton Abbey.
Jean
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ah yes, the economy will be used as the rational for all the interest in a period piece and we will have a plethora of period TV dramas and movies. Abundante de palavros
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Jean, that's a very interesting article about the BBC and Dickens at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/06/charles-dickens-bbc-howard-jacobson. It makes me glad that we'll be reading one of Dickens' books together in February.
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I watched my DVR of Dowton Abby last night and loved it. I hated to see it end. I know I will buy the DVD because I bought the first one.
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I have already preordered the DVD from Barnes & Noble and it is due to ship out to me on February 7. Yippee!
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I think it goes on for a couple of more evenings - something about Thomas gets himself in trouble at the Abby and they track down Bates. There is also a problem of control between the women when the house becomes a convalescent hospital.
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Series 2 or Season 2 or whatever, is TEN hours long, and we have seen only 2 hours. So we have 8 delicious hours to go.
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I agree with all of you. I've watched the first episode and I'm hooked. Mary is becoming more likable now that she seems to truly care about Matthew. She was going to tell him but didn't go through with it, presumably because his fiance was going on about not wanting to live if anything happened to Matthew. Mary seems more considerate now. We're given some clues that there is something in Matthew's finance's past that could hamper their plans for marriage.
Poor Bates! How did he come to marry that dreadful woman!!!
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From today's NY Times -- Downton Abbey's effect on the publishing business.
If You’re Mad for ‘Downton,’ Publishers Have Reading List (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/business/media/mad-for-downton-publishers-have-a-reading-list.html?_r=1&hpw)
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And the effect on Highclere, too. When I was there in 2010 and knew nothing of this series (and there's nothing in the house about it, or wasn't then, unlike Castle Howard and Brideshead Revisited) the rumor was that neighbor Andrew Lloyd Webber was attempting to buy it and they would "never sell." But apparently it was struggling. No more. :)
Now that they begin filming the 3rd series in February the tour business at Highclere alone has astronomically increased, hopefully they are set for life.
I watched it just last night, because I had taped also Ab Fab in the 20th reunion and watched that first, in fact I watched it twice last night: what an absolute hoot that thing is.
Random thoughts:
I'm really liking the butler this time, what have we seen him in before? We've seen him in something.
And I do like the new cook, too. Lots of little subplots. Looks like the farmwife was not as negligible as the middle daughter thought she was. She's just playing, the farmer's wife is not.
I'm sort of glad to see WWI portrayed, because even in its horror, you never hear anything about it any more. The war to end all wars. The Military Channel (which was on because my husband likes it) ran a spectacular documentary on it the other night with the assassination which started WWI, of, was it, Archduke Ferdinand? I never realized his wife was also killed. You never hear anything about the wife.
Lord Grantham this time around seems kind of blustery and ...redundant, I think Bonneville is playing that part brilliantly.
Bates, what a sweet thing that romance was, and I agree, what a monster his wife is, where tho has she BEEN all this time? Why can't he just divorce her? Obviously he should have, why did he not, previously?
I'm not quite honed in suddenly to Bates.
I do realize that she's come for the money after his mother's death and now she can blackmail the Granthams. I did think (was he actually going to hit her?) that was possibly not a good sign, in him.
I'm somewhat confused over Maggie Smith's character this time (who does not love Maggie Smith? That cackle alone is worth rewinding the movie for), but I sort of sympathize with her for some reason. She is the mother of Lord Grantham, right? So it was her house? So now that he's married she...moved out? Lives in a dower cottage on the estate? Lives...elsewhere? And tho she thinks of the house as hers (naturally, wouldn't you?) Lady Whatever, the American, in a strangely flat tho sweet performance, whose money when she married is what is keeping the house IN the family, has stood up to her on the issue of turning the house over into convalescent or recovery care. That little interaction is a nice plot twist, but suddenly Maggie Smith's character seems less a quaint funny meddlesome old busybody than a displaced person with reason for her opinions. She can't give up her position, a little unexpected depth in the movie. There isn't much?
But then she swerves again and we have the issue of the servant, and the machinations to keep him out of the war or get him in the war. An early "What did you do in the war, Daddy?" issue. That's a nice touch.
And then there's Lord Grantham's sister? Where has she come from? I missed something here, how does SHE know all about Mary's prospects, and her "blotted copy book?" My gosh when you think of the real skeletons in the closets of some of these great houses, and you read about what the house parties were really like, that's hardly worth mentioning, especially since our noble Matthew probably wouldn't give a fig. Or would he?
Hopefully not because it seems "Sir Richard" has a secret on Matthew's fiance.
Lots of nice subplots. I am enjoying it, very much. This episode however seems more flat to me than the first series, the characters more stereotypical, almost cardboard. The only one who seems to be enjoying herself flat out is Maggie Smith.
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the characters more stereotypical, almost cardboard
Ginny, I too notice a subtle shift, but not enough to keep me from enjoying the show.
Lady Cora seems more subdued, more pale, older looking. O'Brien seems to have quieted down since the soap "accident" for now. Roselyn was in last season, briefly, when Lady Mary stayed with her in London. I don't recall that it was ever stated, other than rumor, where she got her info. She sure is an opinionated piece of work and is confusing Mary with her advise.
Lord Grantham is out of sorts about not being called up to go to war and be a part of the real action. Perhaps the bluster, Ginny, is part of an attempt to bolster his bruised ego/morale in regards to that. He certainly wasn't happy to be called upon for "mascot" duty with the regiment.
I read a spoiler before the season started so I know where things are heading with a few of the characters, especially Lady Cora and Bates. 'Nuff said.
Both Sybil and Edith have moved forward in interest and actions toward what? Independence, avocation, vocation? Lady Mary is the only one of the three that doesn't seem to have a great outside interest (except maybe her riding?) to occupy her. She apparently has "bought" the old idea that her only avenue as a woman is marriage to the right kind of person. She is at home, reading and riding and waiting. The other two are doing. Sybil with her nursing and Edith with her interest in driving and agriculture. They are gaining knowledge to be successful in their own right.
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hmmm I know we are given to understand Bates' wife is a monster and the show is doing a good job of helping us see how immoral is her character however, I feel like giving her a break when you look at what her life must have been - no I do not think blackmailing and stealing are OK but I wonder what choices she had.
We know that Bates was in the army and not an officer - according to what I found that meant during the second Boar War which would fit better the time frame of this story his salary would be one shilling and one pence a day - in today’s value converted to American money that amounts to a months earnings of $155.04 plus he gets free bread, vegetables and meat provided since the revamping of the Army in I think 1885 and while he is stationed in England they both, husband and wife have quarters - when he is on campaign she fends for herself.
We know from reading the French Lieutenants Women the vast number of prostitutes during the Victorian era because women had to earn a living without work opportunities. (Queen Victoria died 1901) As far as we know Bates' wife does not turn to prostitution, instead she steals. Shades of Dickens...
We also know Bates was a drinking man - even today, families are beside themselves and resort to all sorts of behavior trying to live with a drunk. Attend any Al-anon meeting and you get a picture of what family’s experience.
The army is so demoralized during the early twentieth century before WWI because of crowded un-healthy living conditions and little medical help. The army is considered very weak because they have had to let many soldiers go because of health issues and wounds from the Boar War. They know something is brewing in Europe. Bates would be one of these soldiers let go - without any skill except being a valet for officers in the army.
Remember the first session and how Bates was the butt of the staff because of his handicap - even I remember as a kid to be anything but full of health with all physical facilities working you were really ostracized as bad as being of what was then considered an inferior race and worse than being of the inferior religious persuasion. As a crippled man, you had fewer opportunities than a woman did and so Bates leaned on his knowing the Earl of Grantham in order to keep his job.
Bates' wife must have been beside herself with fear when she had her husband return to her a cripple - and then not even to have the protection of the army that she probably blamed for his condition - she could either feel victimized by it or become angry - it is easier to see a woman be victimized by her circumstances even if it means living in squalor or on the street. What her choices were I do not know - she did have her back up against the wall and having been living with him as a drunk and then the separation because of war the marriage could not have been close.
Then finally we have Bates cleaned up - no more drinking - a job that pays better than anything he experienced in his earlier life - acceptance by the staff and the kindness of Mrs. Hughes the housekeeper and the love of a young woman.
Loyal Anna is in my mind his fantasy of starting fresh - he looks like a cradle robber in that when you look at Bates' wife, take away her character and immorality she looks like she should be his wife - she is a handsome women closer to his age - a marriage and a life that went south and probably didn't have much of a chance because of circumstances, both of the times and career of Bates and his ability to handle his life were against their contentment.
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Barb
Wow! Most of what you wrote was just an assumtion of what you think Bates and his wives life was like. I think he comes across as a decent man who had to prove his worth to the household staff. I felt sorry for him at the beginning but he has become well liked by the people he works ane the people he works for.
As for his wife I don't think there is any excuse for her behavior. And again I feel sorry for him being stuck with her. From what I remember didn't he say he was going to give her the money his mother left him just to be free of her. But I guess she wants .
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Greetings -
I want to comment regarding the girls and their roles. I think that in many families regardless of of when they lived, there are/were different rules & standards for the children based on birth order. I think Mary represents what was expected of her as the oldest daughter at that time and she's functioning in that role. I see her somewhat enjoying seeing her sisters doing things that she doesn't envision herself doing and we know she's not happy with society's role for her. She represents the society that she was raised in.
Even though the girls are close in age, things have changed in the world & society as Edith and Sybil come along. They have to make their own way in life because they are not the first born and don't have to conform as much as Mary does and they have other opportunities - i.e. driving a car, and experiences brought about because of the war.
Also, in many families as we raise our own children we change our priorities & expectations. We learn from raising the first child and learn to pick our battles. We also have less energy when it is spread among more children and often become less strict with the younger children as witnessed by the whole feeling of the older siblings that the youngest child is always spoiled.
I think that actually the script writer has done a good job of depicting traditional family dynamics. It is a shame though that the animosity between Mary and Edith has resulted in being cruel to each other. Of course, since it is a story, we have no background on what their upbringing was prior to the "young lady" stage. There are many parallels between these three sisters and the three sisters in "Gone With the Wind".
Mary
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WETA, our supposedly Washington, D.C. public television channel, which is actually located in northern Virginia, while the Howard University channel is in D.C., reran last Sunday night's Masterpiece Theatre last night and I watched it all, all over again. Bates had not been able to get a divorce previously because after he got out of prison they could not find his wife. She showed up and surprised him just before his mother died. He went back to Anna after the funeral elated because now he could get his divorce. What a sad shock Mrs. Bates gave him. This man always takes the pathway of honor.
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It does seem to me that Lady Mary is showing changes. For the first time,
I see her putting others ahead of her own interests, as when she decides
not to threaten the happiness of Matthew's fiance by telling of her love
for him.
Also, working with the handicapped soldiers seems to be having a very
positive affect on Thomas. For the first time, he really wants to help
someone else. I am quite pleased with some of the changes I'm seeing...and
I have no doubt whatsoever that something will happen to rescue Bates from
his evil wife and restore him to Anna.
FRYBABE, my daughter Valerie has been watching "The Tudors", and she says
Vera Bates was the first Queen Catherine in that series.
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MaryPage: They couldn't FIND her? Who couldn't find her? Who are "they?"
What was he doing in prison? I need to find my DVD of Downton I which I bought and have not been able to find at all.
Barbara, I admire your ability to spin gold out of straw, the wife to me seems the personification of evil, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, after all, her threat here is to take an entire innocent family down if she doesn't get her way.
Bates to me seems the powerless one here, the victim, not her. What an interesting discussion here, you all make such interesting points and saw different things.
Mary, how interesting on the family dynamics. I don't have any brothers or sisters, so I'm always fascinated to read about fraternal relationships. Gone with the Wind had sisters? I don't remember the first sister act there, who were they? (It's been a LONG time since I read that book. I remember Melanie (would she fit the oldest daughter syndrome) and Scarlett of course, but who were the three sisters?) I may need to read that book again!
Frybabe, I thought (is Cora the mother) looked older too but I thought it was our new TV set hahahaa. That's an interesting point on Lady Mary and what she apparently has bought as her role. It comes back to what CubFan Mary said about family dynamics. But I thought (and we see I have no basis FOR that thought, not having siblings) that the oldest of girls was something of a leader, Mary seems to sort of only lead when it comes to reacting with a smile, no matter what it takes, (and the actress really does that well), other than that, she just as you said rides and waits. There's something, to me, odd, about her character because she is not going to inherit, so why is she sort of cast as the one who is waiting to do so?
Something odd there, what a trap that character must be to portray. Smile. Do nothing. Smile. Do nothing. Certainly does not want to marry Sir Richard, who has enough money...for what? She's not going to get the house any way you cut it unless she marries (her cousin?) the heir.
How close a cousin is Matthew anyway?
Am loving the discussion here.
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;) :D Gold from straw - I do like to get the times understood - :)
We hear so often how working in a country house during the Victorian era was a plum job regardless the long hours and very hard work - when you realize the options if you were not working for a family of wealth it was pretty grim in a town or city with poverty having a different face in the countryside.
I also have a great deal of trouble seeing folks as either black or white - I liked white hated cowboys as a kid as much as the rest of us but looking at most folks they are a mixture - if they were all good then they have no reason to live if you think of living as an opportunity to learn - and to think of someone as all bad denies us the opportunity to look into our own soul. Who wants to mirror back someone we have deemed beyond repute. In addition, I see the ways of a community, society or nation often lends itself to difficult choices so that like the ladies giving out white feathers with no understanding of the circumstances of those not in uniform I think it is easy for us when observing a character to do the same thing as we label folks without pulling out other sides of their character.
Ah so - to each his own - I like ambiguity in my characters and others here like to see good and evil - and so true to Senior Learn we have much input.
Mary is another character that I think takes more than liking or not - I saw her in the first season as acting like her life and feelings did not matter in the scheme of things and so she acted out like a young person who feels boxed in - she needed guidance and yet, she had the struggle of the families fortune in her choice - she saw this even more than her mother and father or at least she saw herself as a young marriageable women still wanting the best for her parents which meant sacrificing herself - her only privacy seemed to be in that diary that her sister secretly reads when Mary left it on her bed.
I think gradually with having realized life and men are not as romantic but want a real sex life and then the horror of her first lover’s death so that she now had a scandal to hide. She was balancing two worlds - as she matured she became aware of her feelings and was no longer the paper puppet that she imagined herself when all she only saw herself as a tool for the future wealth and happiness of the family. With all her maturity her major role is still marriage - we shall see how this story unfolds but I am remembering younger daughters could not marry until the oldest was married and so she also has that on her head.
I think it would be hard for us to see growth and change if the character does not experience growth and change - I also think Mary is the character that is showing the change in society from the Victorian era epitomized by her grandmother, Dame Maggie Smith and her two sisters who have embraced the changes in a community, society or nation.
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I think Bates went to prison because he was falsely accused of stealing. It was his wife who was the thief and he took the blame and so went to prison.
I am enjoying Season 2 very much. The writing seems to be sharper and not as dragged out. Or is that to portray the changing times and faster moving life due to the war.
All your comments were so interesting, I am looking at some of the characters in a different way.
Edith fooling around with the farmer... Has that girl no conscience or does she feel entitled to anything or anyone at any time? Was it because she was thwarted in love in the Season 1 closing episodes by vicious lies?? Makes you wonder.
Evelyn
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Ginny -
Scarlett had two younger sisters - Suellen was the middle daughter and had some of Edith's characteristics. She and Scarlett did not get along at all. Scarlett bad mouthed Suellen to Frank Kennedy her sister's beau, and then she married him because she discovered he had money, which would help her save Tara.
Carreen was the youngest and was kind, patient etc.
I think Matthew is referred to as a 3rd cousin.
Mary
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In season one, Anna is sent to London to accompany the cook when she goes for her eye operation. She takes advantage of the time there to look up Bates's personal information and record with the War Office. Bates, you may remember, had been the earl's batman during the Boer War. A batman is an enlisted man assigned to an officer as valet and general servant. He shines all his leather and buttons and keeps his room tidy and so forth. Well, Anna found out he had had a blameless career and then had been accused of theft, which the serviceman giving her the information doubted very much was the case. Then, armed with his home address, Anna went to see his mother and found out he had not done the theft but had taken the fall for his wife rather than have her go to prison. And when he got out, he wanted a divorce, but she was no where to be found. You cannot serve papers on someone who cannot be found.
With his prison record and war wound, Bates was all but unemployable, but the earl wanted to give him a chance for old time sake. He liked Bates. Remember, the staff kept giving him grief and the butler finally persuaded the earl to let him go. Bates actually cried. Then, when he was riding away from Downton, the earl ran after the carriage and gave him another chance.
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Here is a nice interview done with and about our Mr Bates...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2038106/DOWNTON-ABBEY-SPECIAL-Brendan-Coyle-plays-Mr-Bates-available.html
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This discussion is great. I appreciate the details that you are bringing up that I've forgotten from the various episodes; also the speculation about what makes the characters tick.
Thanks, Barbara, for that link about Bates and the actor who plays him. I didn't realize that he was such a sex symbol!
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I lost my post! To repeat...I echo that thanks, MARCIE. I had totally forgotten how the truth about Bates was discovered and that Anna was responsible. I found
myself really disliking the butler, but it has become apparent he is a man deeply
devoted to his duty and faithful to the family he serves. His motives were sincere,
if misguided. One can forgive that.
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That was a great article on Bates +. As the article said he's a decent man both in real life as well as Bates.
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Decent and loyal at his own expense, but many sided - As a drinking man during his marriage she had to be filled with hurt, anger, inner rage and disappointment. Not justifying her acts - not everyone in her situation chooses to steal but still wondering what where her options - what did women who had to fend for themselves while their husbands are off to war do to survive plus the pressure of their drinking and what that does to your own psyche.
There was a lot of negatives that neither of them were in control of even if he had not gone to jail being wounded meant he was not easily able to secure a job and, unless both are hired at a house even if he got a job as a valet without the jail time that he took for her she would still have to fend for herself. So what does a women do at this time in history?
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Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
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April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
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April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
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April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
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February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
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January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
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The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
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I like Bates and the part he plays and yet I think that he is a little to old, even in that part to be involved with the young maid. If he was in the Boar War and now this is in 1914/16 that would make him being in late 40s. Need to sort of age her a little just maybe mention how long she has been working there. Just a little about her so could tie a age to her.
The family would not encourage a Older servant having any kind of a tryst with a young maid. (Usually it is a son of the family that does that). Remember Upstairs Downstairs and Sarah the maid getting pregnant with their son. That was quite common in real life back then.
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I thought they did manage to age Anna a wee bit in Season 2, but it's hard to tell.
What do you think of the new girl (forget name)? She seems to have a mouth on her, doesn't she.
The dress styles have changed some. I don't think the women's fashion is as becoming as in the last season. I'm thinking of the dresses that are very narrow at the ankle hem. Circa 1918-1919?
Here is an interesting article about the Women's Land Army, first established during WWI.
http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/A2116478
It reminded my of Lady Edith, although I don't recall any mention of the WLA in the show.
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I don't believe we had a WLA in the World W2. If we did I never heard of it. Was big in the 2nd was. I knew many women who served in it. Usually there were the German POW and the Italians working on the farms also. I think the US also had Germans working up in the Midwest here.
It was more the Nursing that they went in in WW1. It had been going prior to even then. Boar War used them also.
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Looks like PBS is going to show us more about the inner workings of a Manor House on January 22
http://www.pbs.org/programs/secrets-manor-house/
Do any of you remember what the series was named that PBS offered a few years ago where they took folks from today and put them in the circumstances cut off completely from their today's life for a few weeks and we watched at least 4 episodes of the way it worked out.
I remember there was one series of Early America and they had to cut enough timber to ship back to England to the investors that paid their way and in real life the leader of the community had to leave because of illness or death in the family - he was not liked by all and the two university professors took over but were not successful. The rule was they had to attend service every Sunday and one family would not - they went to the river for the day saying their marriage was not worth complying.
Another was several couples living in the west and among the group was a young couple who were on their honeymoon - I remember they saying at night their cabin that they had to build was filled with field mice and they saw all the eyes at night.
There was one that took place in West Texas and part of these series had a committee of local people into history who would judge how well they did - I remember one of the women on the committee was outraged out how carelessly the rancher's wife took care of the garden - and during that series the cook was also a mess and left with one of the young cowboys who was from New England taking over as cook.
There was a family that lived a middle class life in England - he wore a uniform on his job but I do not remember if he was with the police or what - they had a teenage daughter and a son - do not remember that story as well
But the one I remember was a couple who lived in what we would call a Manor but was a large Country house like Downton Abby - the unmarried sister of the wife accompanied them in the project and she was so lonely with such a strict class system - her only companion was the tutor from India so that she had to leave the project for a few weeks since she was bordering on deep depression -
They took the story through till they closed the house I think between the wars. There was a young girl and boy servant who did marry for real. They showed them married in the show and they had to sleep in a bed in the hall behind a screen - the cook was from France and was a mess - the butler ran the whole house along with the housekeeper - they decided the only one who had fun in a great house was the master of the house who had all these shooting parties and the mistress of the house who was pampered over as she chose her wardrobe for one social event after the other.
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You are right, JeanneP, the US did not have a Women's Land Army in WWII. There was one, called the Women's Land Army of America during WWI though. Smithsonian wrote about it a while back. See article: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/Before-Rosie-the-Riveter-Farmerettes-Went-to-Work.html?c=y&page=4 In WWII, our ladies headed for the factories.
Barb, thanks for the heads-up. I'll be looking for it here. I vaguely remember something about the British show where the family lived "in period", but I thought it was Victorian. Didn't see that one, but there was another doing the medieval life community. That I think I saw a little of it, but it didn't interest me at the time.
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On a Downton Abbey fan site, I saw the following comment about the actress who plays Vera Bates. LOL.
"Stellar job. In two short scenes, she managed to dethrone the Evil Queen O'Brien, and over-shadowed all of her handiwork in Season One!"
Barbara, is this the reality series you mean, where people were transported to a manor house and lived according to the period? PBS Manor House premiered on PBS in April 2003. See http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/
The other program, which was first shown in 2002, was Frontier House. See http://www.pbs.org/wnet/frontierhouse/
Thanks for the link to SECRETS OF THE MANOR HOUSE. That program should be interesting.
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Tra La - yea - yes, you found it - i forgot what that butler looked like -
There was a group of them - Frontier House being one of them - let me see if with these links the others will come up - the one I was curious about took place in a middle class house in London and the father wore a uniform to work - seems to me it took place just before WWI and so I was hoping it would give us a glimpse to how folks could make a living -
OK found this site that shows the various budgets for middle class and the poor as well as servants income during Victorian England - http://www.victorianlondon.org/finance/money.htm
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Found it - oh so many thanks Marcie for finding the series...
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/1900house/
Well I'll be - he is in the marines - he was not a policemen - did remember the uniform though
Paul Bowler, 39, has been in the Royal Marines since he was 16 and is now a Warrant Officer who serves as a telecommunications specialist. His rise through the ranks over the past 23 years required that he and Joyce move 13 times to various posts. He agreed to THE 1900 HOUSE journey to thank Joyce for her years of cooperation with his career.
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I didn't really think Anna was all that young. Perhaps they have 'aged' her a
bit this season, but she really strikes me as being in her 30's.
Fashions always change during wartime. Styles become more practical, use less
fabric. More women are working at jobs that require freedom of movement and
more close-fitting garments. Then, once the war is over, the ladies (or the designers) seem to go all out for glamor again.
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I thought Anna was in her thirties also. Anyway lots of men married younger women then. My father was 11 years older the my Mother when they married in '36
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I loved tonight's episode, and I am SO relieved that Matthew's Lavinia has turned out to be such a lovely person and that Mary was not persuaded by her evil, gossipy Aunt Rosamund to tell dreadful and untrue gossip about her. It was Rosamund who talked Mary into not accepting Matthew's proposal until they found out whether the expected baby would be a son and heir or not. It was against Mary's instincts at the time, but she took Rosamund's advice. Matthew caught on and would have none of her acceptance after the miscarriage. Rosamund is a troublemaker of the first order.
I was also pleased about Edith's being appreciated for the work she was quietly doing with the convalescents. I have not liked Edith previously, but Good On Her!
I still cannot stand Thomas and O'Brian, but I think where we are heading is that Thomas will do something outrageous and want O'Brian to have his back, and she will finally refuse and do what is right. She is one big mess of war within her over right and wrong at this point in the story.
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It looks like they are setting up for Bates's return.
Branson is becoming more radical.
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I have not yet watched "Downton Abbey, II". As I am in the middle of a series I found in Netflix, called "Brandwell". It is 27 segements long. I really am enjoying it.
The stories are about a family doctor, and his daughter, who is also a doctor. She is one of the first women doctors, in England. I find it fascinating. I will watch it again, tonight.
I am really enjoying Netflix online. They offer many, older PBS mini series. IMO, it is well worth the $7.99 a month. I have no interest in most of the current, programs being shown on network television.
Sheila
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I agree with you about Rosamund, MARYPAGE. Her values are so cynical. I am
concerned because I suspect Lavinia truly loves the lawyer now courting Mary.
It appears they have a history, and I fear that Lavinia has accepted Michael as
a desperae second choice. Her father undoubtedly has a hand in that, too.
O'Brien is a master manipulator, and plays her unsuspecting lady most skillfully.
She seems to regard Thomas as a surrogate son, but I don't think she would risk
her position for him too far. Actually, I have hopes for Thomas. As I mentioned
before, he shows signs of finding something to do that he truly cares about.
SHEILA, is Brandwell based on actual persons, or is it fiction? Either way, it sounds
like it would be a good one to watch.
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Oh yes, BRAMWELL! I enjoyed that series about, oh, ten years ago or more. Very nice indeed. On PBS.
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I don't agree with you about Thomas, Babi. I think he is an irredeemable scoundrel and will do something really dreadful before this season is over.
And I am afraid I also disagree with you about Lavinia. I think she well and truly loves Matthew. Her ONLY relationship with the newspaper publisher who is courting Mary is that she obtained information from her uncle's files that gave him that great scoop in the political and financial world. She did this because her father was nearly ruined financially and owed a huge debt to this newspaper publisher, and the publisher agreed it could be paid off in full if Lavinia obtained this information for him. She did and the debt was paid and she saved her father. This is the story Lavinia told Mary, and I believe it to be the true story. All of Rosamund's rumors were untrue. Lavinia never had a relationship with the newspaper publisher.
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Thomas could go either way. He does show signs of improvement, but he is still an opportunist.
Interesting contrast between Gwen and Ethel. Both want to improve their lot in life. Gwen took a practical view, and by taking a secretarial correspondence course was able to land herself an office position. She is an independent minded woman. Ethel, on the other hand, is a dreamy sort who seems to be hoping to catch the attention of a convalescing officer. Is she a hopeless romantic wishing for a white knight to sweep her up and away?
I would love to see Lang set up in a small sewing/tailoring business and not just gone from the picture entirely. He was praised for his sewing abilities. Of course, they may yet find something else at the house for him rather than just see him go.
Oh, my PBS station ran a repeat of the latest Sherlock Holmes series right after Downton Abbey. I wonder if they are working on new episodes.
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I haven't watched the first episode, but I was able to see last night's, and I enjoyed it. I will wait to see how the characters develop a bit more. But I did enjoy seeing the "modern conveniences" being introduced, such as the curling iron. Time is moving on.
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I thought the butler, Mr. Carson, DID let Lang go. Remember, he went up to his room and Lang was already packing his bags. Carson gave him 2 months wages and wished him well and told him to let them all know how he was doing. He is gone! Out of there!
I don't see any improvement in Thomas. He took the hospital job as a cushy, away from the fighting thing. He deliberately got himself wounded to get away from the war itself. Now he is a swaggering power-hungry maniac. I am scared of him and of what he may do.
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I wonder if I've missed something with Branson. He's Irish, right? And it seems he must be quite anti-British. Is that why he doesn't want to fight? And is that what brought on his attempt at soiling the visiting commander? He doesn't strike me as being a cowardly sort, so I don't think it's fear that's prompting him, but I don't see him as a true conscientious objector either.
Is Downton Abbey limited to the two seasons? What we see these ensuing two months will be the final? Or has there been more shown in Great Britain?
At any rate, it looks like they have some fights to get underway and sort out before it's all over.
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Branson epitomizes the Irish experience during WWI - Ireland was not part of the Great War - they had their own troubles - the Easter Rebellion was in 1916 - Beside which Branson was outraged because as he explained his brother or cousin forget which was walking down the street minding his own business when he was shot and killed by an English soldier because later the English said he looked like he could have been a possible rebel.
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I thought I saw mention of a third season Pedln. I'll have to go see if I can confirm that.
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I thought Branson just talked about being a conscientious objector. And then when he went for his army physical they found he had a heart problem and so rejected him. And he wanted to do something against the British army and that's when he conceived of the idea to pour the ucky stuff on the visiting commander.
I enjoyed last night's episode. It is going to be interesting to see how all this plays out.
I also am glad that Edith got some praise. But did you notice that quick shot of Mary frowning down at her plate when Edith received the praise?? They sure are loving sisters...
Evelyn
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I just re-watched this week's episode and realized that Thomas had absolutely no empathy for Mr Lang. Based on Thomas's behavior in the war setting and knowing that he joined the medical corps because he thought it would keep him out harms way, I doubt that we will see any "caring" type behavior from him unless he thinks it will be of benefit to him to pretend so.
I am curious as to what ages would be assigned to Isobel (Matthew's mother), Cora (Mary's mother) and Violet (Mary's grandmother). You feel almost that Cora & Violet are of same generation whereas actually Isobel & Cora are.
I'm quite sure i saw somewhere that the third season of Downton has been approved and funded.
Mary
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I'm disappointed in Lady Cora. I think she shows very poor judgement in regards to others around her. She "seems" to be easily fooled. I think Edith is beginning to show a strength and kindness that surprises me.
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There is definitely to be a Season Three.
I think Lady Edith has just needed to be needed. She has always felt useless and unappreciated. Completely on her own and unnoticed by family, she went amongst the convalescents and helped them in a hundred little ways.
I got the sense that the only reason Thomas showed interest in that young officer who eventually committed suicide was that they were both Gay. Remember, we found that out about Thomas early on in Season One.
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You turn out to be entirely right about Lavinia, MARYPAGE. From her demeanor, I
had suspected she was once in love with the publisher. Her motives were quite
different, as I discovered from this latest episode. I suppose I was looking for
a way to get Matthew back with Mary. Mary, I was happy to see, did the right
thing and sweetly cut Rosamund off.
You may be right about Thomas, too. I didn't suppose he had turned into an angel,
but it did seem that caring for the injured veteran brought out a better side of
him. I won't give up on him just yet; there is some good in there. Shoot, even
O'Brien seems to be mellowing just a tad.
I do hope so, FRYBABE. I enjoyed that new 'take' on Sherlock Holmes. Some of the
new movies, tho', I find an outrageous travesty of Conan Doyle's creation.
Is that how you read Mary's expression, EVELYN? I thought it more surprised, then
thoughtful. I'm hopint to see a better attitude toward Edith, now. After all,
Edith has improved considerably, too. Having something worthwhile to do has made
a big difference in her.
The character that most surprised me is the emergence of this 'take over'
attitude of Matthew's mother. What was once firmness of character has become
overriding bossiness. They try to convey the idea that she has always been this
way, but it certainly didn't seem that way to me in the first series.
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I also am glad that Edith got some praise. But did you notice that quick shot of Mary frowning down at her plate when Edith received the praise?? They sure are loving sisters...
And I thought when the general (I'm glad to see him again, he's been in a lot of films I liked) made a toast to Lady Edith, I saw a bit of disappointment in the face of Matthew's mother. What an interesting little side plot is developing there.
Did they actually shoot cowards in WWI in the British army? How did they do that without a trial?
The production is so sumptuous, you almost don't care who does what, or I don't. It's just a pleasure to look at. I did like Lord Grantham and his screen in the library being irritated by the ping pong, that was a nice touch, too, and not wanting to eat with the patients. That is a BIG place, surely they could have some privacy.
My favorite character is...is it Michael? The footman who wants so badly to enlist. The only child, only son and his erstwhile romance with the kitchen maid, is it Daisy? I love his face, so guileless, so innocent, he's doing a fantastic job with that part.
And now she's promised to him and it's entirely possible that due to being assigned to Matthew, he will not see any action in the war. And so he'll come back. Hopefully. What an interesting plot twist.
I really was surprised to see the actress playing "Mary" up for a Golden Globe. I really can't see that, can you?
(PS: Yes, they are filming the third series in February.)
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I got the sense that the only reason Thomas showed interest in that young officer who eventually committed suicide was that they were both Gay.
You may be right there, MaryPage. His pat on Thomas's leg could be construed either as simply a sympathetic gesture or the recognition of a kindred soul. The suicide was definitely an act of desperation and deep depression at being separated from the support and encouragement Thomas and Sybil gave him.
Thomas could have gotten out of military service by declaring himself gay, but then he would have exposed himself to suffering from prejudices and persecutions. The writers are not giving us much clue to his though processes. To bad. I would like to know how much of his behavior is an effort to keep his secret hidden and/or an outward manifestation of self-loathing.
Could it be that O'Brien suspects Thomas's secret? No clue to support it. If she does, she could be one of those people who root for the underdog. At any rate, Thomas is an opportunist, but he doesn't have her manipulative skills. He is getting ahead, pretty much, through her manipulations. We can see what he is getting from the relationship, but what is she getting from it?
Babi, I too noticed that Isobel is becoming more and more overbearing. Pushy!
Regarding Lang, weren't shell shocked individuals, for the most part, considered cowards in WWI and treated accordingly by many? Remember Patton's infamous slip to the face of a soldier suffering from PTSD? Wikipedia has an interesting article on shell shock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_stress_reaction Note that the APA didn't officially recognize PTSD as a disorder until 1980. Ginny, look down at the header World War I. It answers your question about executing cowards, at least as far as the Brits were concerned.
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Matthew's mother was very pushy in Season One, as well. Remember how she insisted on her medical experience and expertise? How she insisted on diagnosing Matthew's manservant's hand rash and going to the doctor's pharmacy and getting out medications to treat him, herself? She was also pushy about the man with Bright's Disease. In the case of the manservant, she was wrong and Lady Violet was right (and most awfully smirky about it), whereas in the case of the young man, Isobel saved his life by insisting the doctor try the treatment she had seen previously elsewhere. I like Isobel, and I think she is right most of the time and she is sick to death of being dismissed because she is "just a woman." She could have made a fine doctor in these times.
If Thomas had announced being homosexual back then, he would have been killed for sure. And yes, cowards were shot; most often secretly and illegally. Sometimes, albeit rarely, as an official warning to others. We did the same. Men and officers were shot in the back because they made themselves very unpopular. Or tossed overboard in the middle of the night in the navy.
Patton was World War II, but yes, it was all believed to be sheer cowardice back then. Patton was a most unsympathetic soul.
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I don't think that we are suppose to accept Thomas as a Homosexual. It is just that he will turn to anything. Just a rotten person.
I have a feeling that soon he will get into trouble where he is now. The doctor that thinks so well of him will find out. He will be shipped to France and the Front and before the series ends he will be killed. There is no other way of making him turn up to be a good person later.
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Ouch - what an outcome and yet you are probably right - no good can come of him but my goodness talk about off with their heads, off with their heads... ;)
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Don't forget that Thomas came on to Mr. Pamuk in the first season. Oh, but I do agree that he should get his come-uppance. And so should O'Brien. Who knows what season three will bring.
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The shooting of young soldiers who were "cowards" has been a theme in some books set in WWI.
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Jeanne, I do not quite understand what you mean about our not being supposed to accept Thomas as a homosexual.
Remember the young duke who came to Downton to PRETEND to court Lady Mary in Season One? He did not come to court Lady Mary, but had had a homosexual relationship with Thomas and Thomas was in possession of a whole pile of love letters from said duke. And the duke got Lady Mary to show him the house, starting with the servant's quarters on top of the house, and got her to point out Thomas's bedroom, and disappeared inside with the door shut and retrieved those letters from Thomas's chest of drawers. The two men got into quite an altercation about it, and the duke hastily left Downton.
Quite the opposite of you, I get the feeling from the writing and acting that we are very much meant to see Thomas as a homosexual.
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Valerie and I both remarked on that use of space, GINNY. The place was so huge I would think they could turn over an entire wing for the hospital without using the family's common rooms at all.
The enamored footman is William, and the last episode ended on a rather ominous note for Daisy. It sounded like William was going to insist on marrying before he left. (Would that have been possible, I wonder.) Cook surely couldn't expect Daisy to go that far to boost William's morale!
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Interesting tidbit.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9015235/Downton-Abbeys-Michelle-Dockery-is-in-tune-with-her-co-star-Elizabeth-McGovern.html
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I didn't realize that Eliz. McGovern had left the USA 20 years ago to live in UK. Married a British Director. Don't remember seeing her in anything other than this show now. Maybe she has made movies in Uk.
Back to Thomas. Many men even today will (Make out) with men just to do what Thomas tried. Blackmail. Fact Male Prostitution is now on the rise. Men picking up men. They are not Homo's. I am sure it went on years ago. If he was for real it would have by now found out in the Army and back then men went to prison for it.
Now wasn't there a man in the US army shot for being in coward. I thought it was in WW2. the only one it happened to? From Chicago I believe. Sort of a Polish name began with S.
I could have the wrong war. Seem like it was printed in our papers in UK years ago.
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This is what I found via Google.
The only American soldier executed for cowardice WW2
There was a TV movie called "The Execution of Private Slovik" back in 1974. Martin Sheen played Eddie Slovik.
I didn't see it but comments where that it was pretty strong movie.
Mary
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
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April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
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April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
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April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
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February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
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January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
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The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
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Frybabe, I am unable to view the Wikipedia site but I did find this on the BBC and they are usually pretty accurate, I had no idea it was so widespread, but I knew it was an awful war:
From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/britain_wwone/shot_at_dawn_01.shtml
Expectations of war
World War One soldiers knew their king and country expected them to fight to the death. Such was the expectation of their military commanders, their political leaders and even their loved ones that there was no question that if mortal danger came, they should face it like men. It was the only way for good to triumph over evil.
But this conflict quickly became the most brutal war in history and not even the most seasoned serviceman was prepared for the scale of carnage that unfolded before him. For many the horror proved too much. Hundreds were unable to cope, many were driven insane and several simply ran away.
But the army could no more afford to carry cowards than it could traitors, and many of those who did flee faced instant retribution with a court martial and death by firing squad.
British and Commonwealth military command executed 306 of its own men during the Great War. Those shot brought such shame on their country that nearly a century on, their names still do not appear on official war memorials.
More on the website.
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Re: nurses in England-WWI
http://edwardianpromenade.com/women/nursing-military-hospitals-on-the-home-front/
Some facts, not fiction. Plus, if you scroll down to the bottom there are some interesting links to sources about the period......
I tho't this one was particularly interesting.
http://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/downton-abbey-season-2-country-houses-in-medical-service/
I'm reading Fall of Giants by Ken Follett, the first of a new trilogy set in the 20th century and this one is WWI - so I'm having trouble keeping the stories steaight in my head :D
He has a character, a young woman Duchess named Maude, who has become an advocate for wives of military men. The middle/upper class women who are responsible for handing out the gov't supplied checks to the wives arbitrarily determine if the wife has behaved "properly", if not they w/hold the check, even on rumored evidence. "improper" behavior includes being in a tavern, or dancehall, or seen w/ a man! It's a very interesting part of his story, probably based on historical fact.
Jean
ean
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Yes, that was the man. I was thinking that a few years back. His family were sent a letter of some kind. Sort of apologizing for having done that. Little late I would think. I am sure, in fact I know that others deserted in Europe during the war, One lived next door to my family with a women. Still with her years later. Met others who melted into the town. Some did the same in Korea etc. Meet women and that is all it takes at times. Very sad. Hard on families.
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It is hard to not feel something for men who have fear and run away. I lost many uncles in both wars. In doing my family research have gotten lot more info on how where and when. Some just young men of 19, 20. years old.
I remember in 1939 seeing them bringing the truck and taking these young men without any training of any kind. Ages 18 to 40 years old. Such fear they must have felt.
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Ginny, what an awful situation and statistic you quote:
"But the army could no more afford to carry cowards than it could traitors, and many of those who did flee faced instant retribution with a court martial and death by firing squad. British and Commonwealth military command executed 306 of its own men during the Great War. Those shot brought such shame on their country that nearly a century on, their names still do not appear on official war memorials."
And JeanneP, I can't imagine what it was like for the young men in their teens and early 20s to be in the rain and cold and mud, with the enemy firing on them and their comrades being blown up around them.
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Jean, what a good article at http://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/downton-abbey-season-2-country-houses-in-medical-service/.
I agree with the last sentence in the article: "The strength of Downton Abbey’s plot threads this year is how they incorporate the roiling changes in class structure during a complex political time in which the necessities of war, the dissatisfaction of the working classes, and the continued growth of the women’s movement influenced the lives of the series’ characters."
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Fascinating link re. women nursing and the home hospitals, JEAN. I had heard
of the VAD, but had a vague idea they were volunteers of all sorts. I think I
would have volunteered either at a hospital or to be a transport driver. Both
have their appeal.
I was appalled to think that a self-appointed groups of women could arbitrarily
withhold government check from those for whom they were intended. Were these checks some form of 'charity', or money the wives were due from their husband's pay? If the latter, surely the women were breaking laws in withholding them.
Really, I can sympathize with the plight of young men facing death before they
have really had a chance to taste of life. Whatever hopes they had for their
future may come to nothing. I would think I would need to feel strongly about
my purpose in being in that war, in order to 'bravely' carry on. At some point,
to find a woman to love, and quietly turn away and go live one's life...that must
have been an overwhelming longing.
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That is such a good web site. It has just about about everything you would be interested in knowing about that time and about Dowton Abbey. I hate to think how much time I'll be spending on it. :)
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jeriron, I agree. That's a terrific site, with a lot of wonderful background. I won't call them spoilers, but if you don't want to know anything yet that occurs after Part2 (last Sunday), you might want to just skim this site for now. I do like the comparisons of the real and the story.
MaryPage, I just assumed, after Season1 that Thomas was homosexual, and had not considered that he was just doing it for personal gain. I don't know. In Michenor's The Drifters, set during the Vietnam War, one of the characters struggles with whether he should declare himself a homosexual just to avoid the draft.
I am enjoying the DA performances so much, and this is the only place where I find people talking about it. None of my friends or acquaintances have even heard of it.
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Ken Follett captures the fear and the horror of the battlefield in Fall of Giants, but not so gruesome as to be unreadable.........i should get a pr fee from him :D....... It reminds me of the book and movie after WWI that was basically an anti-war movie, can't think of the name - i know one of you will know it.
Jean
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What a fantastic write-up, Marcie. I got interested in Mell Manor, mentioned in the article, and ran across this article connecting Downton Abbey characters to a real-life hero. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2052408/Edward-Horner-The-real-life-Downton-Abbey-WWI-hero.html
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I have been watching Masterpiece on public television since it began, oh, in 1970 or thereabouts. I watched The Forsyth Saga, and that sort of morphed into Masterpiece Theatre and now, for some reason, we have Masterpiece Classic and Masterpiece Mystery and Masterpiece Contemporary, or whatever. Doesn't matter to me; I watch all Masterpieces. So it really blows my mind when I hear of folk who have never heard of ANY of it! Where have they BEEN????????
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Not on PBS that's for sure - remember when we used to donate items to be auctioned off in order to raise money for the station
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My daughter is one of them. We were talking about TV shows and I mentioned DA and she got quiet and then said HUH. I mean there's so much talk about it yet there's still people that never heard of it.
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Thanks for that line, FRYBABE. Mells Manor is beautiful, isn't it? It is sad
to think of all the old families that died out during the war. It is one of the
reasons, I believe, that 'full nurseries' were so desired in older times. So
many died in childhood that one needed a number of children to assure that heirs would would survive.
I was a bit surprised to learn that a statue of a man on a horse was placed
inside the local church. (I assume it was local.) That doesn't really sound
appropriate, but I guess much was allowed in those painful times.
I'm constantly surprised, watching quiz shows, at the things people know and
don't know. Sometimes I'm saying, "Oh, come one, everybody knows that!" At the same time, people will readily come up with information, ...like
celeb. doings and the names of weird band...that I an wholly ignorant about.
I guess it just depends on where your interests lie.
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I enjoyed last night's episode enormously. Having read and felt disgruntled by a number of critics really picking on the story as written as compared with a more likely real life scenario, I admit to feeling it was a bit over the top the way Matthew and William showed up just as Lady Mary was performing. On the other hand, I enjoy my escapism fairy tales.
When we are children, the impossible tales are full of magic and things that really and truly do not happen in the real world: talking animals, and such. These are aimed at teaching us morals and something of the type of people, human frailties, and situations we will encounter in life.
If Downton Abbey has a lot of happily ever afterwards, well, that is fine with me!
I really did want Sybil and Matthew to get together, and am disappointed that her granny and sister's disapproval seems to be shoving her defiantly right to the inappropriate chauffeur.
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Our PBS station broadcast first a documentary about The Manor House, which turned out to be historical background for the events shown in Downton, it was really good. Then they followed Downton with another of those Days in the life of Queen Elizabeth not too far in the past : the last opening of Parliamentvwith Tony Blair and IT was good, too.
So it was definitely a British night :)
There's a very good large and somewhat tedious book about how the great and titled homes came undone and the staggering losses in wealth and property, truly staggering, among the British landed gentry, I can't recall the name, I read at it for a class once but the documentary might as well have been Downton, right down to (no pun intended) the primogeniture and the American wife.
The documentary also pointed out the hierarchy above and below stairs and how 1/4th of the young men at one of the pre WWII dinner parties would not attend another after the war. It said...something like 20,000 British were killed in one day? Surely not one day, I need to watch that again, and that the young Lords find themselves in the trenches with their own servants, with whom previously they had had precious little contact.
So thse aspects of Downton seem relatively realistic
I did think Bates's wife would not go away quite so easily, and it appears she has not, from the previews.
I don't think the chauffeur romance is realistic, the youngest girl does not seem that smitten or is it just me?
I feel sorry actually for Bates's replacement and the gift he had brought Lord Grantham, since the annual salary of a maid anyway was something like 28 dollars a year. That set him back, not sure Bates should have taken it...
Am I the only one who feels sorry for Matthew's mother?
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Feel sorry for Matthew's mother; but she learned, I think, what a bossy boots she is!
Saw the manor house film, as well, and thought it a most interesting history of the rise and fall of this style of life.
Agree Sybil does not seem to be head over heels in love, but afraid family disapproval will lead this young rebel into an unsuitable alliance. The young man is a HOT HEAD of the first order. Am in sympathy with his cause, but not his anger. Never felt the constant hatred and shedding of blood over blood being shed did the Irish any good. All could have been settled long, long before the women came along and went on strike for PEACE. if only the men had not been such hot heads. Oh well; cannot change History.
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The thought I came away with after this last episode is that they are trying to touch on as many social issues/changes as possible. An enormous task not too badly done, I think.
Does anyone remember exactly why O'Brien is holding a grudge against Bates other than she just doesn't like him? I can understand the continued animosity between Bates and Thomas, though.
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I sorta skimmed over today's posts, as Val and I haven't watched last night's
episode yet. I'll re-read and post after we get a chance to do that.
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I remember Bates was the one who told the butler he had seen Thomas stealing wine; that I remember. As to why O'Brian hates him so, I honestly just cannot remember. Anyone?
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Seems to me O'Brien sees the world through jaundice eyes - I do not know that anything will make her happy - she is in competition with anyone her equal or above - is only loyal now to Cora because she realized after she left the soap where the pregnant Cora could slip and fall and out of that tragedy learned there was no secrets to get rid of her but rather the Dowager, Countess was needing a new maid.
You get the impression she aligns herself with Thomas just to keep alive her desire to control the house with no end in sight except to make everyone feel as calculating and pinched as she seems to feel. She disliked Bates from the day he arrived - I do not remember but does she know about Thomas taking the wine - if so she may only have Thomas' version where Bates is the tattle tale enemy on that one. Because I cannot remember either any altercation between O'Brien and Bates.
I thought the timing was off a bit last night - part of it dragged and then it was like they had to hurry to get the parts of the story shown that was slated for this episode and the easiest was to have Matthew and William just walk in during the moral boosting amateur entertainment.
haha here is a fun bit - A quiz - which character are you?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/quiz/2011/sep/13/downton-abbey-character
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I watched it last night and enjoyed it.
Hopefully Sybil will realize the chauffeur is very controlling wanting her to come away with him and give up her family and her nursing. I agree he is a hothead and very full of himself. By his downgrading her nursing duties as nothing special, I think she is beginning to see the light.
Will Mary ever let Matthew know her true feelings for him?
The hour each week just doesn't seem long enough.
Evelyn
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Barb, although my answers to most of the questions in the "which character are you" quiz would be "None of the above", I'm supposed to be most like Lady Mary. Hmmm... could be, could be. :)
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Oh, what fun!
This is who I am:
Your results: You are the Dowager Countess of Grantham, Violet Crawley (Maggie Smith). You do not suffer fools gladly. In fact you do not suffer anything at all because you refuse to entertain any form of discomfort in your life whatsoever.
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I too enjoyed the episode and also am in the dark about what grudge O'Brien is holding against Bates. As you say, MaryPage and Barbara, it could be that she is upset at him for "telling" on Thomas and the wine (which I don't think he did). In this episode Thomas says he has bigger things to worry about than bringing down Bates. It's O'Brien who keeps the gossip flowing... about nearly everyone.
Evelyn, I too hope that Sybil wakes up to the immaturity of the chauffeur... or that he grows up. It was not a good sign that he belittled her nursing work. He says: "The only thing that matters is if you love me. Everything else is details."
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I fear you may be right about Bates' wife, GINNY. She has a lot of old
spite and bitterness in her. I'm not sure if that post-episode was all preview
or not; it looked as thought that bit with Bates' wife could have been a
review of her past confrontation with Bates.
Bates wasn't aware of the back story in Moseley's presence there. I felt
sorry for Moseley, too, and I hope he will be able to take the disappointment
in stride. He seems a good-hearted man.
I was very pleased at Thomas' closing scene, MARCIE. His new responsibilities
have given him a better self-image, tho' he definitely needed calling down
about his arrogance and rudeness. I think it's true; he does not hold a grudge
the way O'Brien does. That woman is simply full of poison.
(I tried taking the quiz, but there were too many questions for which I did not
like any of the answers.)
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The quiz has to be taken as though you were actually living at Downton in that time period. It is asking what your reaction or preference would be if you were there, then. It asks as though it is a complete mystery who you are: just how would you, who you actually are, choose in a particular situation there.
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I couldn't figure out how to get in to take the Quiz.
Now myself. I would say more like Sybil. When I was that age I was still single in UK. Was really out for Causes. Only ones I did not go for were the "Black Shirts". I think that is what we called them They were the Mosley Boys. Sort of the Communist party. Did a lot of Marching and handing out leaflets. I think they are still around someplace but not as many followers now.
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I haven't seen the word "common," (in the quiz) or heard it in probably close to 40 years but my grandmother used it, and it was very effective, I always thought. Covered a multitude of sins. :)
I can't do the quiz, can't answer the first question, impossible choices.
Babi, I hope you are right about the bit on Bates's wife being in the past instead of a preview. I am somewhat confused by Mrs. Bates and their relationship. He seems to feel hopeful. He looks different to me, has he lost weight? Is he still limping?
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Greetings -
I know some of you have hope for Thomas but I personally don't trust him at all. I think he is up to something.
I was impressed with Cora's standing up to Isobel. It was painful to see; and. obviously no one had stood up to her before. A bully is a bully regardless of gender. Just think of the number of women we've all known who act just like Isobel. Occasionally someone gets brave enough to try to stand up to the bully but always backs down when the bully threatens to leave, everyone says "oh no no no". Some of the worst bullies reign in the church kitchens.
Was nice to see Edith in a good light. Her kindness carried over from the service men to her sister, her father, and Daisy.
Mary
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I felt sorry for Isobel. She doesn't have any skills as a diplomat and doesn't seem to see other points of view very easily. I thought that she felt she was finally getting some recognition for her skills as a nurse and a woman who could make a difference to a large organization. I'm sure that by most people nurses were seen in those days as unskilled; much inferior to doctors.
Now, while she was gone, the household changed the nursing schedule...something that she thought was in her purview.
Cora and Isobel were butting heads from the beginning. Cora also is taking more responsibility for the house than she seems to have before...maybe in submission to her mother-in-law. Cora seems to be flourishing in her new role too.
It's probably best for all that Isobel and Cora have their own domains to oversee.
Cubfan, I too don't see Thomas turning around. He's too self-centered.
Ginny, lol. You say "I haven't seen the word "common," (in the quiz) or heard it in probably close to 40 years but my grandmother used it, and it was very effective, I always thought. Covered a multitude of sins."
I too know someone who occasionally uses the term "common." It can be quite effective.
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That's how I felt, GINNY. Impossible choices. As to Bates, he is still
carrying the cane, but as I recall when he walked around the pub, he only
limped very slightly. He may just need the cane in certain circumstances,
like uneven ground, or stairs.
CUBFAN, I think Isobel had gotten so used to thinking of Downton Abbey
as her future domain, that she got beforehand in 'taking over'. It came
as a great shock to her that she could get ousted from the place. I agree,
Cora has become more self-assertive with this opportunity to show how
capable she is in management.
Seriously, sometimes the mistress of a large,fashionable house managed
large sums of money and more employees than her husband did in his office.
PS: If Edith can grow and change, why can't Thomas? You may be entirely
right, but one can hope.
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Mosley was not a communist, and would have been horrified to hear himself described as such. He was a Facist. He was imprisoned for, oh, I think it was 3 years or more, during World War II because of his politics. His wife was Diana Mitford, who divorced a multi-millionaire Guiness in order to marry him. Yes, the beautiful Diana was the loveliest of the 6 famous Mitford sisters and is grandmother to the famous Guniesses of today. She was also imprisoned, but I think they let her out sooner than Sir Oswald. Yes, he, too, was a member of the British aristocracy.
I do not believe for a nanosecond that we have heard the last of Mrs. Bates. And I believe her to be a greedy ingrate of the first order. Remember, her husband went to jail and served a sentence and got a history tied around his neck for something HE DID NOT DO! He went for her: to save her reputation and womanhood. Ha! She has already shown nothing but greed for anything she can get and contempt for him and for his feelings. No gratitude!
And I agree Thomas will never have a decent cell in his body.
I have used "common" all of my life. Mostly just within family conversation, as one cannot risk being quoted elsewhere. I find these days I often have to revert to the word: generational, instead. I find an enormous amount of common attire and behavior these days. I simply dare not say so.
No matter what transpires, Isobel will one day be the dowager mother of the Earl of Downton!
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Mary.
We who were young back when Mosley was around more really did not know what the difference was really between Communist crowd and the Facist. We just use to hang around and listen to them Rant and Rave. Use to be lots of Sunday morning Meeting in the Town centres. To be honest, I didn't learn a thing. Now I would never show up for either one of them.
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I just got around to taking the Quiz. I'm Bates!!! Go figure. I think I'll take it again and see who I am. ;D
Evelyn
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I think they will keep that Awful Thomas on the show until the end, much as people hate him.
Then he will have a bad ending. (I hope). If that show was a USA made then people would be spitting on him on the streets. (the actor I mean.) but in UK. people don't seem to do that kind of thing. I remember here that Soap Stars that people thought mean use to have a hard time.
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It is simply astonishing how many people behave as though the actors, esp.
in soap, really were the people they portrayed. I don't know how many stories
I've heard of tv 'doctors' being approached in public by people wanting medical
advice! And my sweet grandmother would agonize over the entirely fictional
troubles of her favorite characters, talking about them as though they were
dear friends.
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When at my daughter Anne's earlier this week (I spend Monday and Tuesday night with her every single week), I told her about the Downton Abbey which character are you quiz. I told her I had taken it and asked her to guess which one I turned out to be. She immediately shot back with the answer: The Dowager Duchess!
When I told her, in much surprise, that she was right, she said: "Ha! I could have told you that and saved you the trouble!"
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
I had a MIL. who took all her health advise from the Doctors who where in the Soap Opera's. She would then go and tell her doctor what she thought she needed him to do.
If someone in the show came down with a problem she thought she had the same one for sure..
Now mind you she live to about 90 and so who knows. Could they be right.?
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Jeanne, I guess we can't fault her too much if she lived to 90!
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Really, I wasn't surprised either, MARYPAGE. Having read your posts, the
dowager duchess seemed quite appropriate. You are a lady of quite decided
opinions. :D
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I don't know if you get our Jonathan Ross show on your TV, but tonight one of the guests is Hugh Bonneville - of Downton Abbey and many other programmes.
Rosemary
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I think that we are all going to enjoy "Downton Abbey" tomorrow night. Look like many things will come to light.
Now I don't remember seeing Hugh Bonneville in any other show. Rosemary can you fill me in. Any DVDs he may be in. What else has he been in? Must be plenty as he has to be in his 60s
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http://www.hughbonneville.co.uk/
I watch a lot of the British shows on public television and on BBC and buy a lot of their films on DVD, so I have seen him previously. Not particularly noticed him, but did recognize the face.
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I cheated. I watched some of the YouTube bits.
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I see I got home in time to see Secrets of the Manor House. My PBS station is running it tonight at 7pm before Downton Abbey.
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WAHHHH! I fell asleep on half of Manor House and then a friend I haven't heard from for quite a while called. I missed all but the last few minutes of Downton Abbey. Oh, well. The station will run it again on Sat. night and just before next week's episode on Sunday. I can't wait. Maybe I'll watch it online earlier.
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GREAT EPISODE! I loved every minute of it. Well, okay; I always close my eyes and shut off the sound for war scenes, so I did miss those details. And I don't mind one bit that I did.
The newspaper publisher deal with Mrs. Bates went off beautifully. Now to see what she has in store for Mr. Bates. I think she just flat out hates his being happy with Anna. Lord knows she was not the teeniest bit grateful to him for serving a prison term for something she had done!
Whew! The drama. Scenes from next week make it apparent that Lady Mary tries to get out of marrying Sir Richard and that he will ruin her if she does not. Roller Coaster Ride Abbey, this is!
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You would think by along about now O'Brian would learn that every single time she interferes with other folk's lives it causes terrible repercussions that wind up making her very sorry for what she did or said. You would think. Apparently the writer doesn't think!
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On the Downton Abbey website, there's a video interview with the actress who plays O'Brian. (She is a beautiful YOUNG woman! Amazing!!!) I couldn't quite hear everything she said but she was explaining the character as being someone who is unable to treat others kindly because her own life had been so miserable.
However, in the final scene with Thomas tonight, when O'B. is telling him about Mrs. Bates threats, she says something about "I won't let anything happen to my lady." Perhaps being exposed to Lady Cora's good heart (for instance, when Lady C. and O'B. walk in on the group feeding the soldiers) is beginning to rub off - ever so slowly.
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You are kinder to O'Brian than I. I think she is just feeling an unbearable guilt and much belated loyalty because she caused the countess to slip on the soap and fall and miscarry the baby boy and heir, all on purpose because she was angry that the countess was about to let her go, something not true, but she was eavesdropping on the conversation between Cora and Violet and failed to understand it was Violet who was looking for a new ladies maid.
After she found out to her great shock that she was not to be let go and had never been meant to be let go, she was stricken because she had left the soap there in hopes Cora would fall and miscarry. Which she did.
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Oh yes, MaryPage, I well remember the soap incident. I don't think she's actually become any nicer - but she's usually been nasty about everyone when she and Thomas are having a private conversation - and, tonight, she seemed to ease up just a teensy bit. She won't do a complete turnaround, though.
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William was a sweetheart, wasn't he? Was it gassed lungs? Didn't that take a lot of them in that war? Was that he carrying.. the heir...Matthew? Was that what that scene was? Out of the battle? I did like the scenes where they talked informally before, as companions, really, William showing the most strength, I thought.
Not sure I'm understanding why they could not have William in their own house, if not in the hospital part: it's a big house, he could be somewhere, but I thought Maggie Smith was priceless with, was it "Stinky?" in arranging it. Touching wedding, I could have reached thru the tube and throttled Daisy initially, but she came thru in the end. And he got to hear it, hopefully. Loved the bed done up in roses.
The bit about both women, Daisy and Mary, feeling something during the battle might have been a little over the top.
Bates's wife sure gave in easily to Sir Richard, I thought, met her match? I don't think so. Both of them are as venal as you can get. How comes he to be "Sir?" Seems as if he, according to the wedding announcement, had humble beginnings, I did note the emphasis on "Mr." when Lord Grantham read it out.
Even today if you take Virgin Airlines you put your title down, a drop down menu, when you buy your ticket online. Quite an assortment to choose from. Have always been tempted to put one. hahahaaa
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O'Brian does seem to be giving her past decisions a bit more thought now,
MARYPAGE. Especially since Thomas made no bones whatever about telling her
the entire mess was all her fault.
I was asking the same question, GINNY. The army didn't control the entire
house, just the hospital. But it did give the dowager duchess a chance to
demonstrate the power of the elite social network. Never underestimate a
clever duchess!
I can't believe the diagnosis in Matthew's case can be final. One doesn't do
that to the all-important character of a series like Downton Abbey. It does ,
however, provide a very useful and acceptable way to ease his fiance' out of
the picture. I wondered how they were going to manage that without killing
her off. Poor woman.
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Oh, they will probably find some wonderful modern day specialist in London who wants to try a brand new idea out on Matthew and cure his spinal injury. Or at least restore his manhood.
And don't forget, we will have an end to the war along with a humongous flu epidemic. Maybe they'll kill off Mrs. Bates?
Naaaah!
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In the preview of the next episode, there was a quick shot of a heavily bandaged soldier in a wheelchair asking Lord Grantham, "Don't you know me?" Who do you suppose that's going to be?
I wish there would be a "prequel" so we could learn about Lord Grantham marrying the American heiress. Don't you know the Duchess had a fine time with that?
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You bet! After all, she was - - - sniff, American! Sniff!
Did anyone else we know or knew in the first season go off to war? I can't remember!
Or could it be one of his other heirs; one who supposedly went down on the Titanic? Naaaah.
I saw that clip, as well. Hope it is some ultra rich son of a dear friend of the earl's and he will get well and fall in love with Lady Edith and they will get married and live HEA.
Busy writing the script here. Waste of time, really.
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oooh, I am having to sit on my hands to stop myself commenting (having seen the entire second series and the Christmas special already..) ;D
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MaryPage, speaking of "writing the script" (something I tend to do... :-\ ):
The first thing that popped into my head about the wounded soldier was: "there were some survivors of the Titanic".
Also: Someone posted on S&F they read Shirley McClain would be joining the cast. If so, my guess is that she'll be Lady Cora's American mother. Wouldn't that be fun!!
Rosemary, Did I "up" Earl Grantham's status to Lord G. ? :-[
Ooooh, won't you have a fine time chuckling at all our suppositions? :D
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I think anyone with a title is a "lord."
No?
Well, it used to automatically entitle them to sit in the House of Lords.
Not the sirs. The queen makes a sir. Honorary. And yes, she has sirred (knighted?) some scoundrels. I love her to pieces, but REALLY!
OK, Rosemary; you are entitled to tell me it is NOMB!
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At the end of this No.2 series I bet we will be left with a real CLIFF HANGER. Then have to wait for No. 3. (is that right Rosemary?)
Now isn't there a BOOK?. (not right to find out).
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OK, so on the news tonight they showed Shirley McClain's picture and said she was coming to the show; also showed the butler and Lady Cora appearing to look expectantly, as out of a window. So I guess that's happening.
I think, although I am really enjoying this program, that public TV is really hyping this, taking advantage of its opportunity for funding and attention. And really, it's much better than the latest CSI, so I say go for it.
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The one thing that everyone here has complained about is the amount of advertising shown in every commercial break in Downton. Many people record it so they can then fast forward those bits. The ones of the sponsor - some holiday company - are especially annoying. Sometimes the commercials go on so long you almost forget it's coming back. But of course we love it to bits.
Most of the papers who like to think of themselves as highbrow have slated Downton relentlessly, which I think just goes to show how out of touch these reviewers are. We know it's a soap, we know they get the details wrong sometimes, but we love it anyway. You have to hand it to Julian Fellows.
MaryPage - ?NOMB?
Rosemary
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NONE OF MY BUSINESS, Rosemary. NOMB. None of my business!
From what I have read, I gather the series was written in hopes another smash hit mini-series like Upstairs/Downstairs could be realized. And it was! And a second season was in order, to the great delight of all involved. And now a third.
There WAS no book; but no doubt there will be eventually.
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Rosemary, we have no commercials on the public television channels that carry this show. Our commercial television would not dream of carrying such quality productions. They are all reality TV and dreadfully loud so-called comedies in which people use language I would not allow in my presence and yell rude, hurtful remarks to one another. Too dreadful! And it seems that every time the commercial networks make a mistake and sign up a decent show, it fails.
Color me jaundiced!
Some of our critics here have been rude about Downton, as well. They apparently are unused to fine acting and great lines that are not in-your-face. Oh well.
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Here, here, MaryPage. I wholeheartedly agree. I don't think the so called comedies they show now days are at all funny. They keep adding more and more channels on cable with the same programming. Some channels that originally showed promise have reverted to the reality style shows, and paranormal stuff. The Green channel, for instance, lost its green and has been showing old documentaries about Egypt - pyramids, mummies, etc. - and paranormal. Recently I noticed that TMC has started showing semi-recent CSI shows and the like instead of all movies or movie related subjects. Who wants a choice of six or seven channels that play the same things over and over and over. End soapbox.
I am not incredibly fond of Shirley Maclaine. It is so sad that William was written out of the show.
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So we are right....
Shirley MacLaine has joined the cast of Downton Abbey, Variety reports.
The Oscar winner will play Martha Levinson, Lady Grantham's mother, in the third season, which begins filming next month.
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It is so sad that William was written out of the show.
Yes, but think how good this part will look on his resume. And, realistically, the Crawley household could not feasibly escape wartime death entirely. I hope "William" is on his way to a wonderful new role.
And won't it be fun to see Shirley McLaine in her new role. And to see the relationship between the two "mums."
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Don't give up hope, MARYPAGE. It could happen. :D
Oh, ROSEMARY, you lucky thing! I didn't even know it had been available
earlier. But then, of course, It would come out in Britain first.
I can't say I liked every role Shirley MacLaine played, but she had some that
I thought really geat. I never missed one of her earlier movies. I do hope
the writers don't decide to pull the 'crass American' bit. That would be too
tiresome.
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Re Shirley MacLaine joining Downton Abbey: "Producers said the character of Martha Levinson [Lady Grantham's mother] would provide a "wonderful combatant" for the formidable Dowager Countess played by two-time Oscar winner Maggie Smith."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/31/us-shirleymaclaine-downton-idUSTRE80U0X220120131
I think that Maggie Smith had some of her best lines in this episode making sure that William was able to be brought to the house and getting the vicar to marry him and Daisy.
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Shirley MacLaine!
Snarky remarks removed. :)
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I do hope the writers don't decide to pull the 'crass American' bit.
For crass American mum imitation, I would think Lily Tomlin would fit the bill. Shirley's part will probably have a little more style and grace. It will be interesting to see what they do with the part.
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Somewhere from the past i seem to remember that S McLaine & Maggie Smith were friendly, maybe that's how Shirley got the part. I think she will be wonderful. I wouldn't class her w/ Cher. Shirley is a very good actor, so is Lily Tomlin, but not suitable for a part like this, Shirley can be very classy, or not, as she needs to be.
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Shirley MacLaine??? I hope they write it so she can do the role as a class act and not be crass.
Watching Maggie Smith and Shirley MacLaine in the same scene should be loads of fun. They'll be chewing the scenery and loving every minute of it. ;)
Evelyn
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:) I'm feeling guilty about my remarks on Miss MacLaine but I couldn't get back IN here to fix them due to my grandbaby wanting to drive the tractor, so I think I'll recant and give her the benefit of the doubt , who knows?
And I just had to erase another snarky line so I'll now stifle. hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I would rather watch 100 Wiliams, however, than one Shirley, any day, and they killed him off.
I am idly wondering, due to his character, and that of Bates, which group is being portrayed as the most "good," upstairs or downstairs?
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Oh! I think that Shirley will make us proud. She had done some good acting in her past work. I think they get by with a lot more with American Directors than what she will do with a British one. One can tell the difference in British Movies. Who in USA could have done "The Kings Speech?" Can't think of any US could have played a part like that.
We never get shows like this one or such as most that Masterpiece Theatre. show.
Now Halmark do a pretty good job. (to many commercials though?)
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Posting here for the first time, I hope this issue has not been discussed and dismissed. I CAN'T HEAR THE DOWNSTAIRS PEOPLE~ I understnd the aristocrats quite will, does that imply that I am "to the manor bor"? But O'Brian and Thomas standing together watching the family and making snide remarks, it all gets lost on me. I have my hearing aid in, the TV is loud and I still miss most of it.
And can somebody tell me how in the world that pesky blackmailer , Mrs. Bates, came to know of the family's secret scandal? We are talking about the Egyptian house guest , aren't we?
I've heard others say the same about the indistinct speech. I didn't have this trouble with Upstairs Downstairs. lots of people have to view Downton the next day on computers to try to figure out what all the mumbling was about! At least we will be able to understand Shirley. Would love it if she danced a number to show off those great American legs! (Just kidding)
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Welcome bellemere!
Whenever I watch a program with accents, or just a lot of conversation, I am grateful if it is closed captioned. Can you get closed captioning for Downton Abbey on your TV?
Mrs. Bates used to be a lady's maid to the Marchioness of Flintshire, Lord Grantham's cousin. I think Mrs. Bates says she heard the rumors about Mary when she stopped by that house.
It was Mary's sister Edith who wrote to the Turkish Embassy in London informing them about the exact nature of their attaché's death. I don't remember if we're told how the news spread from there.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
Bellemere, do you have Closed Captioning? I can hear but I don't always understand what's being said and the CC helps a lot.
It seems to me that the writer(s) are trying to work in everything they can about the era. So William and Daisy's hasty marriage may have been to set up a plot line about widows getting pensions, etc. She is now entitled to his. How will this affect her status in the kitchen and the attitude toward her?
Bringing in Cora's American mother will provide a story line about nouveau riche Americans sending their daughters to England to marry into the aristocracy. This was discussed at some length in the program about The Manor House that preceded Downton Abbey the past couple of weeks. Winston Churchill's mother was mentioned but there was more information about her sister who had married an English aristocrat earlier.
CallieinOK
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My old TV had closed captioning at the press of a button on the "menu"
Or new, more modern, more expensive TV has a remote control with 64 buttons, and pressing the wrong one can lead into a labyrinth of disaster. I must figure out how to get the captions if I am to get to the heart of
Downton Abbey.
I know that Sir Richard will be a terrible husband. Maybe Mrs. Bates will assasinate him. Did you catch the fancy mink scarf she bought with Sir Richard's money before she realized the trap he had sprung.?
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I hope that you can figure out the closed captioning, bellemere. I found the closed captioning in the "setup" for my TV. I know what you mean about pushing the wrong button on some of the more modern appliances!
Callie, I think you are right about the writer(s) trying to work in everything they can about the era. That seems like a good supposition about why all of the plot intricacies.... that and the conflicts that will keep audiences watching to see how they are resolved. ;)
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That's interesting. Joyce Grenfell (who was exceedingly posh - her aunt was Nancy Astor) had an American mother, as did Gwen Raverat, Charles Darwin's granddaughter.
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Oh, I can't wait to see the 'confrontation' between Maggie Smith and
Shirley MacLaine! I confidently expect that to be a highlight of the
season. They should play off each other beautifully.
GINNY, doesn't the theme seem mostly to be that there are good and bad
types both upstairs and down. And times of crisis seem to bring out both
the best and the worst, don't they?
We don't even get Hallmark Theatre here anymore, JEANNE. I don't know
why, but I have missed it. I feared it was gone forever.
I totally missed the mink scarf, BELLE. That woman is pure spite and
poison. Celebrating her success with a mink is probably typical of her.
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I could not hear anything on the television any more without my CLOSED CAPTIONING. But the British accents would totally defeat me without CC.
Yes, Mrs. Bates explained in detail the first time she showed up exactly how it was she heard the news about Lady Mary. This, too, would have been typical of the times, and the Downstairs in every household exchanged information, gossip and slander with servants from other households.
There was a film made and shown, I think, on Masterpiece Theatre about a bunch of American girls, rich ones, marrying British titles. Winston Churchill's mother was an example. There have been a lot of books written, too. A lot of it was done, really quite a lot of it, to save the estates. That is all very typical. I think the film was called The Buccaneers? Look it up and see if you can get it. You will like it fine.
Funny story in The New Yorker. The gal that plays Anna was in New York for the awards recently. She is to be married later this year (in her private life) and recently went to see a vicar about making plans. He recognized her and asked if he could possibly visit the set. "You will go straight to Heaven," he assured her! She told this to The New Yorker reporter.
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"You will go straight to Heaven," he assured her! LOL, MaryPage!
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Computers back - still setting up the main computer but starved for news I opened the laptop immediately and started to read all the posts -
I am still back at wondering about the character on next week's episode who appears badly wounded and questions if he is known. I don't remember the name but in the first series what about the Duke or Earl or Lord or whoever who brought the Turkish attaché - seems to me he was visiting as a possible suitor for Mary - I wonder if it is a segway to re-opening Mary's story and Sir Richard gets wind and makes a to do - somehow I just do not see Mary and Sir Richard going down the aisle.
I am also imagining Matthew's mother returning with another modern and therefore magical cure. I wonder if we will ever find out what makes Mrs. Bates so intent on destroying him. She becomes more a characture of hate with each appearance.
And poor Daisy - she really had her lesson about not following your heart and doing what other's think is right - now hopefully the others will help her see the good she did so she does not feel guilt and unworthy for the next 10 or 15 years of her life.
Funny on my TV I can get captions in Spanish but not in English - there are buttons to hit for several languages but the only one that takes in the one for Spanish. I hope you find a way to show captions on your TV Bellemere.
MaryPage wasn't it Edith Wharton who wrote a couple of novels about rich Americans sending their Daughter's to marry into the English aristocracy? As Callie says, so much of Downton Abby follows what we already know about England during the turn of the 20th century. Maybe that is part of its appeal - few surprises but using what we have read and know about to tell a story with great actors and great scenery and great photography. In many spots the story is predictable but like a romance novel it is candy to watch.
There is only one show I like and watch on commercial TV - what a conflict since it is on the same time as Downton but I selected to watch it online - The Good Wife - my sound on my computer is awful - so low - I got extra speakers but not every site goes through the speakers and so I finally found last week how I can get captions on that CBS site - with all the repeats of Downton Abby available I was tempted to watch The Good Wife and see ...Abby later in the week but come Sunday night and I become too anxious to find out what happens next.
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I watch a movie last night that I had not heard about. Came out 2011 . A UK movie
Now if anyone would care to see the parts of the North of England where I am from. this will take you from one end to the other. Beautiful. it was photographed as they went.
Made me so Homesick. Name is "The Trip" just 2 men in it. Steve Coogan and Rob brydon. The box shows them dining. Can be now rented.
Rosemarykaye. Bet you have seen it. I think the North can complete with the south of UK when it come to Scenary etc.
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I am determined to find the way to captions, and the Grumpy Old Man says he will help but not until after the Super Bowl, in case we do something disastrous in our meandering. So I will suffer ghrough another Downton on my tiny bedroom TV, with the sound up as loud as possible.
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Barb, I'm glad your computer is back up and running.
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I must have been distracted at that point in the story, as I don't remember a thing about the badly wounded soldier who asks if he's remembered. I'll have to 'catch up' on the next episode.
I love beautiful scenery, JEANNE, but I assume there was more to the
movie than that. What was the story line, please, so I can decide if I
want to look for it?
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Babi, it was part of the trailer for the next episode.
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I haven't been here for a couple of weeks, but I am totally taken by Downton Abbey. I had to go out to dinner and didn't get back to the second show until about 15 minutes into it. It was a very cold evening. I ran straight to the TV, turned it on and sat staring at it, didn't even take my coat off. It used to be with the old televisions that I would tape the show I didn't want to miss on the VCR, or tape it anyway to watch again. I happen to have a very good VCR still, but with the new HDTV, the recordings come out not just not HD but much weaker, sort of bluish, and the picture is more like it was in the very old days of television. Bummer!
I hope Shirley MacLaine will be restrained in her mugging. The director is very good so I hope he wouldn't let it deteriorate into a farcical situation. And it would be a tragedy if Mary married Murdoch, oops, I meant Richard, like when Julia Flyte married Rex Mottram. But I don't see Downton Abbey as having that kind of heavy weight that Evelyn Waugh saddled Brideshead with, so I am keeping a rosy outlook.
I ran into Lucy at an early music concert in early January. It was so good to see one of you in person. Zulema
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Zulema, I empathize with your not taking the time to take off your coat so you wouldn't miss any of the program!
Yes, we don't want Mary to wed that awful Richard.
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I don't think you need to worry about MacLaine 'mugging'
inappropriately, ZULEMA. She has played straight roles very
well indeed. Did you see her in "Some Came Running"? That gained
her first Academy nomination.
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Babi. The Dvd (The Trip). Story line not that big. Two friends making a trip. one is a Writer going to all the Hotel Restaurants as a Food Critic. Other man sort of funny. But for the scenery alone it is worth watching. Think I will buy it if price comes down. At the Moment it $39. Love my grandchildren to see where we came from for one thing.
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I got to watch the last episode of DA last night. I was a little less satisfied with it than with the others. This article more or less says how I felt about it. http://entertainment.time.com/2012/01/30/downton-abbey-watch-house-of-despair/?iid=ent-x-tv-recaps-widget I think that packing every know social issue known to man into the show in such close order is getting to me a bit. Strive and drama creeping in, and things are starting to fall apart. boo! The article mentions some kind of chemistry between Lord Grantham and the new maid, Jane. I didn't see any chemistry, did you?
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I'm with your Frybabe - no sparks that I noticed - he seemed like any CEO presented unexpectedly with a new employee that he would be polite and a bit curious to know who is working in his house.
I'm thinking this may be a history lesson disguised with the pomp of costume, great actors, suspense, indoor and outdoor scenery, and a simple story - it amazes me how little anyone under the age of 35 knows about twentieth century history other than platitudes about the Great Depression and Hitler. This could be a lovely way to document while instructing the many who did not study WWI or England's historical experiences while in school.
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I confess to adoring the costume dramas, especially these and the Jane Austens. With Austen I remind myself that those beautiful 18th century people took about one bath per year. With these in the early 20th century, I remember the very rich often took a bath once a week! Such excessive luxury!
I'd rather be me, with my 2 bedroom, 2 full bathroom apartment! I am the one with the luxury! I bathe every day, whether I need it or not!
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it amazes me how little anyone under the age of 35 knows about twentieth century history
BARB
I know what you mean, BARB. I am constantly surprised at the things
younger people don't know, that I assumed everybody knew. Of
course, my ignorance of the current pop culture would be, I'm sure,
equally amazing to them.
Which reminds me, have any of you seen this news item? I had no
idea our teens were making such good use of their gadgets.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/03/teens-save-life-using-fac_n_1253301.html?
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The February 6 - 19 issue of TV GUIDE, a double issue with the Making of SMASH on the front, has an article about Downton Abbey. I get the distinct impression we can expect more terrible things from Mrs. Bates and that the lord will have an affair. Nothing said about the person in the wheel chair, nothing said about any new characters including Shirley McLaine. It does come right out and say Thomas is gay, so I guess that settles that, as the writer of the series is the source of the interview.
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Aww- well even writing about what appears to be a good marriage is showing us that whatever the itch is that men will hurt a partner, it happens - feeling hurt doesn't help, feeling guilt doesn't help and even feeling anger doesn't help - which are the typical responses by the betrayed partner.
As for Mrs. Bates I expected she was like a book worm that does not stop till she reaches her end and the end of every page in life she confronts. I just wish there were clues to the source of all this rage.
Ouch for Thomas - with no love in sight and his last love as unscrupulous as he, with both aware of letters that could be the source of embarrassment and or blackmail, it appears all Thomas has in his life is his campaigns to manipulate himself into a higher order of respectability and hide his secrets.
Sounds like we have still some surprises to learn about tomorrow night...
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I'm watching Shirley Maclaine in Coco Chanel. Some critics panned it, but i'm liking it and Shirley in it. Plus all those lovely clothes! A pleasant afternoon.
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Ignoring the whole thing wouldn't help either, BARB. I would
think anger is a natural response and one an injured partner
would be entitled to express. It's where one goes from there
that should matter. Unless, of course, the partner couldn't
care less. :-\
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Boy did I make a mistake. I went on the local PBS site for the times and day that Dowton Abbey is showing and there was a description of each one and now I know the ending on Feb. 19 which is the Christmas show. I could just kick myself. :(
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I know what you mean Jeriron. I looked at a UK site a while back and caught glimpses of some if not all of what to expect with the future season 2 episodes. It may have colored my opinion of the episodes that are showing now. Suffice it to say, I didn't care for the direction it program is going in for some of the characters. So, spoilers can really spoil.
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speaking of costumes in Downton, don't you feel a little sympathy for his Lordship , made to shuffle around the house in that beautifully fitted military uniform but not allowed to actually do anything with the army? He is supposed to just "keep spirits up" but I bet a lot of the officer casualties would like to punch his lights out.
As to American women marrying into European aristocracy - I remember when Winston Churchill addressed a joint session of our Congress. He said he felt it was a great honor, but liked to think that if his father had been American and his mother English, he might have made it there on his own.
Mh other favoritws are those big slanted hats! They look great on Maggie Smith and Elizabeth McGovern, don't they?
And how funny to watch how the aristocrats stand still in the middle of the room whiile other people put clothes on them, and take them off!
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Heads Up! Just discovered long article in the New York times Book Review insert on "books that explore the world behind downton Abbey" Haven't read it yet, looks good.
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Today on TV it was showing a recap for tonight on Downton Abbey. A little closer view of the Man in the Wheelchair with face bandaged. Can't figure who that can be. Has to be quite old.
Thinking that maybe it will be the cousin who was supposed to go down on the Titanic. Didn't drown but sort of disapeared and then in army in Uk. (To much like a US soap opera ) Will just have to wait and see. He would have been the Owner of the Abbey.
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It has occurred to me that it may well be that officer of the local guards who invited their honorary member, the Earl of Downton, to dinner. Remember? He was the one who disappointed the lord and said that of course he could not go to fight in France with them; he was just a figurehead and they thought it would be a morale booster for him to come to that farewell dinner.
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Well, my first wild guess, which I felt to be too far fetched to be possible, turned out to be partially true. That is to say, it was not REALLY Patrick, but it was someone pretending to be.
I am certain in my heart it was not him.
I do hope that young woman with the baby will not commit suicide. Horrors.
What is to happen? We shall see. Meanwhile, I'm having a lovely time watching.
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What is the purpose of Ethel's story in the show? It seems so extraneous.
Jean
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Back before the Titanic sank in 1913 (and we are now in 1918), Lady Mary was to marry her cousin Patrick, heir to Downton Abbey. Lady Edith, however, loved him. Was secretly deeply in love with him.
Lady Edith is the middle, forgotten sister. She yearns for love and, so far, we have seen her be willing to take it in the most unsuitable situations: the very rich but very old widowed lord, the married farmer, and now this charlatan pretending to be Patrick on the chance his burned and unrecognizable features would give him the ticket to a fortune
I hope things turn out well for her in the long run.
As for Ethel, we are seeing how there was absolutely no safety net for unwed mothers back then; only the charity of the few willing to help. If there is no one to help, well, I am afraid this story may take a turn to suicide. That so often happened back in those days.
After watching Downton tonight, I watched the 2007 version of A Room With A View. I am going to be totally disloyal here and admit I thought it better than the 1986! Oh, by the way: Elizabeth McGovern was in it, and playing the mother!
But, good as Maggie Smith and Judi Dench and Daniel Day-Lewis and Helena Bonham-Carter were, back in the day, I declare this one to be much, much better.
And now I am feeling rather sacrilegious.
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But "Patrick" does not appear to have a British accent. Should he? I'm sort of weak on the Patrick story?
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He is a Canadian.
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Please help out the hearing ipaired viewer who can't find the captions.
Who is that woman who gets on the bus with a couple of baskets and visits the woman with the baby, who I know is the dismissed maid Ethel. Her mother?
And what is the connection between her situation and the new maid, Jane, if any.
someohe hinted at an affair by his Lordship. Not the maid!!!! Please!!!!
That Patrick had a pretty fishy story. Was he really a pretender? Probably. He left when his Lordship turned the account ofer to the lawyer who probably had resources to uncover the fraud. but still.......
So where and how did Jane come into thepicture and does she or that visiting lady have antything to do with Etherl?
Sir Richard - really scary guy. He accurately assessed Mary's feelings for Matthew and brought Lavinia back into the picture to help forestall any trouble to his coming marrage. A real people-user.
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Sir Richard is a true genius. Not at all particular as to how he gets his way, he does figure out correctly how to get it!
It is the Downton Abbey housekeeper, Mrs. Hughes, who takes, I should say took, as she has been told she cannot do it any longer, food to Ethel.
No connection between Ethel and Jane, except that Ethel is unmarried and has a child and will not be given any work, whereas, a brand new concept coming along for acceptance in those days, Jane is MARRIED and has a child and, while previously she would not have been hired, because women with children were not, she just has been. And yes, apparently she and the Earl will have a sexual encounter.
I think the badly burned Canadian officer was indeed Peter Gordon, best buddy of Patrick Crawley. Patrick's British family had emigrated to Canada years previously and he was the closest heir to Downton Abbey, being that it had to be a male. The real Patrick DID die on the Titantic. Gordon hoped his burns made it impossible to prove anything, and the many things Patrick had told him about his annual visits to Downton Abbey would allow him to pull off passing for Patrick with this whopper of a tale. I think it was a worry for Peter Gordon that the Earl passed the problem on to his attorneys to investigate, but I got the sense that the biggest problem was Lady Edith and her big heart and her loving him so hard. I think that situation made him feel more the scoundrel and his guilt made him give it all up and flee.
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Re his Canadian accent, Patrick, in his "pretender" role, says that he's lost his British accent due to living in Canada for the past x years.
It seemed that the Patrick story was kind of tacked on. It came and went rather quickly and didn't seem to serve much purpose. Maybe it was a vehicle for Matthew to say that he thought that Patrick, even with his burned body was a better match for Downton since Patrick would be able to give it heirs. Maybe the idea of heirs needed to be emphasized to see why Matthew and Mary should not marry. Though, now Matthew seems to be feeling something as his wheelchair is being pushed by the butler. Maybe he will no longer be paralyzed and impotent. But now Lavinia is back! And that awful Sir Richard has threatened Mary if she jilts him for Matthew.
It didn't seem to me in keeping with the Earl's character to be initiating conversation with the maid. Maybe he is still miffed at his wife's seeming not to pay attention to him, or even communicate with him much, now that she has a "job" to do.
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Thank you MaryPage, I missed the Canadian Connection!
I am unable to find an actor's credit for this mystery man, but he doesn't have a Canadian accent, either, the actor sounds MidWest, to me. I'm going to be interested to see who he turns out to be, and where he's originally from. Trevor White is it plays a character called Major Patrick Gordon, I have no idea who that is, and he IS Canadian.
I need to watch the rest of the show later today, it was interrupted here by other events.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
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April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
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April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
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April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
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January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
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The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
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Major Patrick Gordon is the name that Edith's "Patrick" says he took from a bottle of gin while he still had amnesia and was sent to Canada. We find out that a Peter Gordon was Patrick Crawley's best friend and would have known about the few things that he told Edith he remembered from his past.
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Did he or not do the deed - Bates sure came back more than discouraged - he could hardly look Anna in the eye and he swiftly left her after having been away for a day or two - not exactly the actions of a lover...!!!
Seems to me the Patrick incident was again showing history that I remember more from WWII but maybe is was a part of the WWI story as well - where men on the battle field share family intimacies and after their death, sometimes at the hands of the so called buddy, the buddy assumes his ID. Seems to me there was even movies or a movie about someone coming home from war assuming a battle field switch and passing himself off as a husband.
Edith can sure pick 'em - poor child - and angry Daisy - looks like others are more easily able to put feelings on the auction block and expected her to do the same.
Interesting dynamics as the under current between Cora, Violet and Isobel - Isobel is made to seem a pushy egotist and yet, when you consider we would expect that kind of focus, drive and hopefully a concern for humanity from any man trying to make a difference - Cora and Violet represent the traditional place that women were subject to before the woman's movement. Isobel may be before her time but the undercurrent seems to suggest that she is not to be admired but to show her as easily fooled because she is not playing the game that keeps women in their safe secure place. Thinking about it even her son, Matthew did a bit of female bashing in an earlier segment because of her headlong drive to bring change.
Unfortunately Isobel does not have the smoothness that allows her to play in the Cora, Violet playground but when you think of it her drive and ability to organize is the exact skills that successful operations look for in a leader. It appears they are also showing Cora to be a success running a large enterprise. Between the running of the Manor all those years and now the addition of running the convalescent hospital while retaining her traditional feminine ways today would make her an excellent manager rather than the CEO type leader that better matches Isobel. And of course Violet, makes the perfect politician - head of the Board of Directors. ;)
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The writers don't seem to have much imagination, they're pulling out all the old stereotypes - maybe i've been living too long and seen too many tv and movie stories. ;D . How is this different from Peyton Place? Don't get me wrong, i'm enjoying it, but a little disappointed w/ the story lines. Pregnancy, amnesia, characters must pay for their sins, men and their lust, characters pretending to be someone else, bossy old ladies........ Maybe that's just life!?!
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I'm with you Jean. Too much like soap opera, and I don't like soap opera. Still, it isn't bad enough not to watch at all - yet.
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Look up - it's a bird - a plane - it's a Harlequin Novel
Per chance in Julian Fellows related to Barbara Courtland.
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Unfortunately, real life is often like a soap opera.
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One of the first things they tell you in any creative writing course is that there is a very limited list of themes to be written about and that these have all been used repeatedly ever since our species has been writing. In short, nothing new under the sun as far as plot devices are concerned!
Differences are chiefly cultural and generational.
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Good summation of the leading ladies, BARB. I think that covers it
very well.
Unfortunately, real life is often like a soap opera.
NLHOME
Up to a point, that's true, I believe. Except in real life, drama
isn't taking place every day of one's life! Mostly it's pretty
routine and humdrum.
Did you note that for the first time Lord Grantham displays a sense
of disappointment in his beloved Cora? He considers her actions in
pulling Ms. Shire back into the picture to be not only meddlesome but
unkind.
And I'm sure no one missed the small indication that Matthews
spine may be healing. There was always, at least in my mind, the chance that the spinal cord was only badly bruised, and would recover.
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Thank you Marcie, I did finish finally watching it and I see who Peter Gordon is, that EYE of his, how DID they do that?
When he said before i stopped watching that he took his name from drink bottle, I kept thinking Gibley's for some strange reason. :)
Cora is suddenly shrewish, she snaps at him surely he can manage for one meal, when he's just said he would have done something on his own for lunch had he known, she's....gotten quite officious herself, doubtless due to her great burdens in running the estate, hospital, he's sort of left out (it IS his house, right?) But she runs the Downstairs, I know, and this may be in prelude to something not good in the marriage, if so it will be disappointing because Hugh Bonneville is seeming more and more ridiculous, to me.
And he now finds her curiously unfeeling, that's not good.
Matthew's leg is noticeably twitching, both of them in fact, in the scene out with Mary in the garden. No one seems to notice. He does hint later on about something that may or may not have happened.
Once again I feel kind of sorry for Mrs. Crawley (Isobel?) who as Barbara said earlier only seems to want to serve. Did Cora say that the recuperation thing at Downton was her idea and so they will be closing that facility?
Cora seems to be showing quite a new side here.
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I didn't hear Cora's comment as 'snapping' at him, GINNY. I thought
is was the typical amused wife to a husband who didn't like his
routines disturbed. I did wish she had taken his "curiously unfeeling'
remark a little more seriously, but after a momentary startlement,
she brushed it off.
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The whole thing we see must be a strain on the Abbey - to Lord Grantham an interruption - he likes a well oiled enterprise and that was the pride he had in running the estate - now he does not know what he runs - most of the estate workers are fighting the war and he is supposed to be a poster child for morale so he wears a uniform - that must have been nerve wracking when he shows such pride in wearing his black evening suit that may only be good for a season - and Cora now is a working wife so that the tensions that the first generation of men felt and some still feel when they can no longer have their needs met by beck and call by a devoted wife whose only job was to run what in a Manor would be downstairs and in a small home the kitchen staff, children and the children's tutors and nurses.
We no longer hear as many husbands vocalizing their inept efforts towards home and hearth but it could be that some men are still nostalgic for a past and feel put upon because we are not living as pre WWI nor that pre WWI lifestyle risen from death during the 1950s and early 60s. Remember the jokes and how a man was thought more manly because he could not find his way around a kitchen...!
I am thinking Lord Grantham is feeling more and more redundant, therefore, unable to give and Cora was hoping for his good will and understanding - neither can read the other during this changing time. Golly if this is the difficulty that has Lord Grantham look askew for the comforts of another women - my mouth is dropping - is it so that men's ego's are that petulant and easily wounded during change.
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YEP!
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My DVDs arrived today. If I have time, I will watch them before Sunday night. Have a lot on my plate just now, though, and may not find the time.
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There are some interesting interviews with Julian Fellowes, the series creator, at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/index.html.
I especially found the one on "Cora and Creating the Series" very enlightening. He says that Cora, and her slight alienation from the culture around her (because she is American rather than British) is at the heart of the series.
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Really? I thought it mostly revolved around Mary.
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Me, too, Frybabe. Mary seems to me to be featured in the series so far.
I guess he means that the idea of Cora, an outsider, was what drew him to create the series. Maybe we'll see more of Cora in the future. Having her mother appear in Season Three might mean more about Cora.
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Makes you wonder if she is managing the Manor and handling her life as a typical English Lady - do you think her forthright attitude about chipping in to serve the homeless vets was more American than English - would an English lady much like Maggie Smith's character be more inclined to approve but to send over some kitchen help rather than organizing and helping herself - I do not know but this information makes me wonder...
And yes, the character that shows the biggest change appears to be Mary - the others all seem to react to the changes around them by being who they are where as Mary seems to change as life throws her different experiences.
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Well, it WAS Cora who set up what they would do when the guy died in Lady Mary's bed. And it WAS Cora who toned Isobel down and forbade her to give orders to Cora's staff. And it WAS Cora who saved the estate with her money, miscarried the male heir, decided Downton would be a convalescent home, and so on and on.
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Do you think we did not give her contribution much never mind because we expected her actions as the lady of the Manor?
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I don't think I had expectations of the Lady of the manor.
Oops. I didn't notice that Cora took the lead when that guy died in Mary's bed.
I was influenced by the seeming "feud" between Isobel and Cora and attributed Cora "toning down" Isobel to the continuing feuding, rather than her taking a leadership role. I missed that too.
I guess Cora hasn't seemed to me to be standing out as a leader or decision maker. I'll have to watch her character more closely.
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Don't you remember the scene in the kitchen when Cora walked in and found Isobel giving the entire downstairs staff their marching orders?
The look she gave Isobel as she told her to come with her was incredible! I will never forget it! And when Isobel started to protest and go on telling the servants what, another look came that was enough to turn someone to stone!
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I think Cora was right.After all it's her house and Isobel seems to think she has very right to give orders etc. Personally I was happy to see Cora stand up to her and send her on her way.I didn't feel sorry for her at all.
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My daughters and I can't stand Cora! We love Isobel, bossy as she is. I think we must be covert subversives. Penelope Wilton is such a wonderful actress.
Rosemary
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Here's a question I have and i bet Rosemary will know the answer. Despite my fascination with this phenomenon of British peers marrying rich American women to finance their stately homes, I am not particularly up on how those American women then fared (and there were a lot of them) and how they acted. Did they become in fact more British than the British? More aristocratic than the established aristocracy?
Did they in fact even fit in? Into the house parties for instance, were they sneered at privately? Those house parties seem in retrospect almost draconian. Nasty, especially among the women.
Did the help Downstairs respect them?
I noticed even in the old Upstairs Downstairs when the reverse was true, Sir Richard having married Lady Marjorie who outranked him, that she ran that house with an iron fist and the servants sort of sometimes looked down upon him?
So I'm just wondering.
Am I wrong or is the current lady of the manor, is she a countess, at Highclere American?
I do have the book The Shooting Party which I see PBS recommended somewhere as the true British Upstairs Downstairs tho I think it's fiction? They say it's a real look at what life was like then for both sides. I can't wait to get into it, it's not very big.
Maybe Fellowes is on to something with Cora who seems quite waspish to me. I don't see her enjoying much of anything at the moment.
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Some of them got divorced, after the estate benefited from their American dollars. I remember well that Consuelo Vanderbilt, she who rescued the Duke of Marlborough's Blenheim Palace, wound up divorced after providing also an heir and a spare. Was Winston Churchill's mother, Jenny, also divorced? Or was she widowed? I used to know it all by heart, but now it seems all muddled.
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Golly looking at Cora I am seeing someone who I wonder if she ever gets tired of bailing someone out - she bails out the Manor by marrying into the family, she bails out Mary after her unfortunate fling into selfhood, she bails out the kitchen staff so they feel supported feeding the homeless vets, she bails out the tradition of upstairs downstairs by 'helping' Isobel see that discussing staff schedules is done upstairs without upsetting downstairs with decisions that are not theirs to make, she again, bails out downstairs with a more equatable schedule to accommodate eating schedules, she bails out the entire hospital enterprise not only with her work running the house but attempting to soothe both mother-in-law qnd husband to take on the enterprise...she bails out her mother-in-law listening and making suggestions about a new ladies maid. Heck she even bails out Isobel, not as Isobel expected however, Cora was positive and not negative - she could have pointed out Isable's grating attitude in the house but instead agreed with what she was saying aloud - she handled her statement as real and not a cover for something else.
Mary has the butler to soothe her when she is low and Cora soothes her husband - who soothes Cora? Her maid makes soothing sounds but does not appear to be as close as Cora thinks or needs and unknowingly to Cora was the cause of her mis-carriage. Maybe her mother, who we are told is coming from America will be Cora's champion but somehow I doubt it - I am thinking her mother is needing Cora to bail her out of some dilemma or at least lend her the feeling of being part of royalty.
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I just watched "The Queen". ...... Living hasn't changed much at that level in a hundred years!?!
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Barb
I agree!
Rosemary
could your dislike for Cora be because she's an American?
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Oh, I very much doubt that!
Rosemary likes us!
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rosemary, you are not alone. I too have been tending toward feeling more sympathy for Isobel rather than Cora.
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I am seeing them both getting short shrift - both give and neither are comforted - Isabel is so much more that does not fit the bounds of what is appropriate skill to be used publicly at this time in history - Cora has made herself useful and valuable which her husband has not figured out how to do in his role as a maturing man that is no longer in the fray.
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I think the difference in the way Cora is lets say to the way her husband is has to do with the fact that they both my have money but being from different countries they react differently to whats going on around them. An example is the way she jumped in to help her servants with food for the vets coming home. She never really appears uppity the way even her daughter sometimes do. They know no different way then how they were brought up in England. Even lets say the Rockafellows didn't live in America the way the ultra rich did in England.
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I watched the rest of Downton Abbey last night on my new DVDs.
Don't worry, I won't give you a single hint. Some things surprised me, some disappointed, some pleased, some made me uncomfortable. After all, I have been surmising and writing and rewriting this tale since its inception.
Enjoy! And then we will talk.
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I can't really see 'bailing out' as Cora's motivation in life, BARB.
She truly seems to love her husband. We all have to 'bail out' our
kids in emergencies. Any good employer will support his staff and
plan their work for maximum efficiency and good morale.
In a word, it's simply another woman doing her job and taking care
of all the crises as they arise. I imagine we all got tired of it
from time to time...but most of us stuck with it, didn't we?
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Yes, women do a lot of taking care of and see it as their role - however, I do not see anyone acknowledging in the story her contribution and so I call it bailing out - she does it without any complain nor does it appear to cross her mind to be any different but again, she appears so alone without the kind of comfort and concern for her that she offers to others.
As to the difference between an English versus an American viva the difference - OK I am thinking outloud here - we certainly do not have the history and traditions to keep up regardless the money that some American families accumulated - these families would not have been so eager to add that knowledge that they sent their beloved daughters to England to find husbands -
Each of our nations has its culture and ways - to me when we observe the difference this gives us a window to find out more - I think we see someone who does not roll up the sleeves and get into the fray when tough times call for all shoulders to the wheel as elitist and yet, it may be that preserving place and class is an important role in the society. Just the concept of upstairs downstairs is screaming class structure based on a pyramid. I think we in the states do not understand the value of class structure and therefore, it is easy for us to pooh pooh the earmarks that keep it alive. It is probably at the heart of the current 99 versus 1% movement.
At the same time to be bound by a role and proper behavior iw what seems to be a plague for the three daughters. They did put shoulder to the wheel and here we have them breaking out - altering the class system - not sure if this story will show us the long term affects of that change. Along with that thinking we still have folks here in the states who think a pyramid is good. They are the ones who do not understand the 99 versus the 1% movement and see the movement as a disjointed rabble - they would prefer a cohesive single issue movement they can both negotiate with or do pitched battle with to show how beneficial the current system is to a nation.
Hmm come to think of it this difference may be part of the differences between Ireland and England in that Ireland as well as, Scotland came from a Clan tradition which is not as top down as a Monarchy. History does tell us that the English top down monarchy sure gave them a leg up for 1000 years or more
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I rewatched last weeks episode last night. Something struck me as being especially painting or photo portrait like. Right after Mrs. Hughes left Ethel, Ethel sat with the baby off to the side of the screen with the wall/window/ledge behind to fill the rest. What a magnificent portrait painting that would make.
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you have to wonder if that shot was prophetic - we shall see...
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I'm looking forward to the episode tonight.
I am feeling sympathy for Lord Grantham. He was schooled as a military man and was looking eagerly to get back to it and be of use to his country. Then he was told he was too old and that his position was honorary.
He seems to be in the same boat as the women were before the war. He wants action and to be of service but he doesn't have a path to attain that.
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Frybabe, I'll have to replay that scene. I didn't notice it.
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Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
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April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
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April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
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April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
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February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
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January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
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The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
Well, what an interesting episode. The Lord being something of a hypocrite. Fortunately, his little fling is over. It seems so uncharacteristic of him. Did you catch his remark to Cora not "to go American" on him. Who will get Bate's spot as valet?
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Now that I have seen it all, including next week's Christmas at Downton episode closing out this season, I am afraid to comment in here for fear I will give something away.
But am eager to hear what each of you is thinking.
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Did you catch his remark to Cora not "to go American" on him.
I sure did!
If you buy the DVD UK version you will find that the episode numbers are different then they are ob PBS. I didn't realize that half of last nights episode is on one disc and the other half is on another and the numbers are different as well. Watched the Christmas episode which I enjoyed a lot. Lots of things change getting ready for next season.
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They're putting more humor in the show - or maybe i'm just "getting it" now. :D i laughed out loud sev'l times last night. Maggie Smith had more scenes, maybe that's why it was so enjoyable. I think she and Shirley Maclaine will be a hoot.
But it did get more melodramtic. Guilt! Guilt! Guilt feelings everywhere. Always an easy story mover.
Why do we like this "soap opera" so, when we probably don't watch true soaps, or read many romance novels, etc.? Is it the sets, the clothes, the wanting to peer into that life which none of us live? I remember the series on the present monarchy a few years ago. I don't remember what it was titled, but i think Prince Andrew was the producer. I watched to see the "houses" and the "rules" and the protocol. It both fascinated me and repelled me, thinking of the pain of ordinary people for millenia who have paid for the luxury in coin and in abuse, and the stupidity of the arrogance, and the inequality and the lack of mobility.
Is there an ego boast of our being able to laugh at what we consider absurdity, and "knowing" that we are wiser, much more rational than those folks?
In any case, whatever the reason, i'm going to keep watching! :D
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I loved the actor that plays Bates in Lark Rise to Candleford but in this - he is so gloomy even in the wedding or wedding bed scene. He had a winning smile and twinkle about him in Lark Rise and I know this is a different time but my word
Do you think Thomas had his comeuppance with his foray into entrepreneurship and now sees the safe way for his future and rather than personal glory he will be satisfied to climb the ladder downstairs or is this yet, one more attempt to play for time so that he can try another gambit pushing the limits of respectability.
Mary is back to acting unfeeling again - seems everytime she sees her life as if a paper doll carrying out duty she shuts down with irony and sarcasm her contribution to the world.
Isobel was made for the clothes of the nineteen twenties wasn't she - the dress she had on when she leaves the room as Matthew arrived to sit with Lavinia looked marvelous on her as if designed for her - where as Cora looks wonderful in everything Victorian.
A couple of artist compositions weren't there - the one of Edith by the columns with Downton Abby framed was another classic look.
Not in the way I imagined but the shot you mentioned Frybabe of Ethel holding her baby with the window above I think ended up being prophetic - she has narrowed his future to the small window of opportunity within the walls of her love - where as with a large open door he would have had the 'things' and prestige of the world but may have had a hole inside that is often the outcome of a grown child without childhood parents. I can not imagine him having the warmth of the tactical attention from Ethel in an upstairs nursary with the best childcare and that draconian grandfather - oh my.
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Did I post these Red Nose Day spoofs of Downton before? We loved them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dMlXentLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3YYo_5rxFE&feature=relmfu
I hope they work.
I really went off Bates in the second series, and my daughters thought the bed scene with Anna was absolutely revolting! You do wonder what she sees in him.
IMO Maggie Smith and Penelope Wilton are the enduring stars of the show - which just shows that older women are really the Backbone of England (or something like that....!)
Rosemary
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Oh my word, that is absolutely priceless, thank you so much fror putting that here.
TELL me that's not Joanna Lumley, it IS! I believe it is?
Oh no and is that Jennifer Saunders as Maggie Smith's character? That lip?
Who is the actor who plays Julian Fellowes? He was in Amadeus and he's so good.
What an absolute hoot, I could get addicted to this, thank you so much for putting it here, Rosemary.
Still have not watched all of Sunday's last two hours was it? Bates in bed? I may have to fast forward on that one, I keep looking at him and having to remind self he's become a sex symbol. I'm wondering about the "little fling" of Lord Grantham and if it may have a little consequence, that would make an interesting plot for year III.
A little too pat on the death of the fiancee, perhaps?
VERY pleased to see Thomas dealt with by somebody of his own kind and the...was it plaster?
I'm going to watch the spoof again. hahahaa
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I think 'Bates' still has a winning smile, when he uses it. He is somewhat older
and heavier now, which was bound to make him somewhat less romantic in the wedding
bed scene.
Thomas definitely had his comeuppance, and is now less sure of how clever he is.
I can't quite decide if his current behavior is a ploy, or a decision to put himself
in place to take Carson's job. Carson is old enough to reasonably expect he cannot
continue carrying this load much longer.
Mary is very proud, much like her father. Any hint of rejection, or 'second place',
and she immediately reverts to arrogant dismissal. Alas, poor Lavinia would doubtless
have made Matthew a better, or at least a sweeter, wife. And I agree, GINNY, a little
too pat.
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Pat or not I hate to see it end and will be waiting for next season. It is still 100% better then just about anything we in American put on TV. Many times we have copied British shows and they have failed here. I wonder if we had not named Prime Suspect after the English show it may have worked because there would have been no comparisons made. I think it was good and I enjoyed it for what it was,much different from the English version. But it is very difficult to compete with Helen Mirran. of course this is only my opinion.
Oh as for Bates in the bedroom scene I think Lord Grantham (sp) would have looked much the same.
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I don't see very much emotion/passion in the scenes with intimate scenes with Bates or Lord Grantham. At least not from them, the women did a little better.
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I have loved watching every minute of Downton Abbey except for this past Sunday night's two-hour performance. Too too much. Too soapy, too many things happening. It's like the producers had to fit an overabundance of evemts into a tight time frame. Ginny mentioned Lavinia's death as "pat." Convenient, certainly. Did she die of the flu or did she commit suicide? Bates' arrest -- predictable, Mr. Bryant's offer to Ethel -- predictable, the Jane/LordG incidents could have been left out.
I love it that Daisy is excited about making the wedding cake, that she came down in the middle of the night to look at it. Of course, what followed was not good, but realistic and unpredictable. Everyone cheered when Thomas met his come-uppence. And cheered again when Carson told him he always counted the silver.
The recording of this segment is still available. After reading all your comments I may have to watch it again. And of course, I'm looking forward to watching next week's season final.
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I find it interesting -
The lord of manor can be involved with a maid - but can't handle his daughter being in love with a chauffeur.
Cora is still pushing to have Bates fired (who has protected her family from scandal) and yet she cannot see through O'Brien (who has hurt her & the family).
Nice touch - the growing maturity of Daisy & her relationship with the cook.
Mary
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I can't help comparing it to Upstairs Downstairs, so I was a bit shocked when Lord G. kissed the chambermaid--can you imagine Lord Bellamy kissing a chambermaid? The mind boggles. Then of-course the Spanish flu, whenever the butler started to feel poorly it all fell into place for me and I yelled at Geoff....Spanish flu....that's how they'll get rid of her....I remembered that's how Hazel was got rid of, but I can't think why.....I loved the last episode which kept me awake and riveted......That's Entertainment !!
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Loved watching the "Spoofs" Our 'Saturday night life" does good on taking off so US shows but nothing as good as these.
Now the lady wanting to be higher up than Housekeeper. Just can't remember what all I have seen her in. Always seems to have the Posh parts.
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Now the lady wanting to be higher up than Housekeeper.
Ab Fab: Patsy: Joanna Lumley.
Isn't that a hoot? I've watched them several times, what a hoot.
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Thanks very much, Rosemary. I love the Red Nose Day spoofs of Downton! They are hilarious. The facial expressions are priceless. What a cast! What a production! That definitely wasn't just slapped together.
I'll post the urls again in case anyone hasn't seen them yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dMlXentLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3YYo_5rxFE&feature=relmfu
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I'm glad that Lord Grantham didn't actually go to bed with the maid. It seems that his marriage might have been in some sense an "arranged" marriage.... for Cora's wealth, to keep up the estate.
But it did seem that the writer did a "soap opera" morphing of characters. In the beginning of the series, the Lord and Cora seemed very much in love. There wasn't a lot of motivation for either he or the maid to suddenly fall in love. Of course, that isn't stopping me from watching the series!
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Sounds like Grandmother has it all figured out so that Branson becomes a copy of Yeats with the connection she has found to British royalty in Ireland and his being a writer - only difference Yeats never married his Lady Gregory.
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Marcie - I think in one of the first episodes Lord Grantham does admit that he married Cora for her money but then fell in love with her soon afterwards. I thought the whole 'fling with the maid' thing was a bit silly, but I suppose it was meant to show that he was let down after not being allowed to take an active part in the war, at the same time as Cora was finding something to do other than dinner parties and daughter-minding.
Rosemary
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Rosemary
I think that about the incident with the maid as well. I do think Lord G and Cora love each other in their own way. It MAY not be a passionate love but it's love never the less. I think the maid thing had a lot to do with the war and his ego was hurt because he saw what was going on around him yet he had very little to do with it. Everyone was being useful and he felt he wasn't. Hopefully that part of the story line is over.
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Oh, but MARY, there was no question of marrying the maid! Actually, in the end,
I was glad that milord thought better of it.
Cora obviously hasn't a clue about O'Brien. But all her actions are cued entirely
to the protection of her children. She would chop anybody who represented the
slightest danger to Mary, at least in her eyes.
I agree about the relationship between Daisy and the cook. Those small side issues
add so much to the story.
I'd love to see that spoof. Was closed captioning by any chance included? It's
not on the videos, of course. It seems BBC has only recently started using CC to
some extent.
Granny, the Duchess, is a living example of the power of the old aristocracy! Never underestimate her. She deceives herself, tho', if she thinks things can go back to what
they once were.
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I wonder if the LordG and maid episodes were put in more for general background of manor life. That "this playing around" was something the did occur, but never amounted to anything good for the maid.
Dana, I thought the same thing during the flu epidemic -- that Cora was going to be the one to die.
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I thought it was to show that not every lord of the manor is a cad to highlight further Ethel's predicament.
I still do not like Bates in this production - if I had not seen him so successful in Lark Rise to Candleford I wouldn't expect more - it is not that he is older and physically heavier - it is as if he is heavy of spirit - he acts like he is in constant pain and maybe he is with his leg - There is just no spark - almost as if he and the director do not get along and he is like a petulant school boy giving a depressing performance that is over the top. I am loosing patients with him and his trails and tribulations and loosing respect for Anna who I thought saw more for them and herself than simply taking care of him.
Looks like from the previews he lands in jail showing his wife had him even from the grave. What was all that about - we never learn why she is so hateful and we get a glimpse that he is noble but life is never so black and white - who knows maybe he did blow and killed her - supposedly we learn this week he has a temper - so that is new information - he is just annoying me and I have lost interest in him and also lost interest in the drinking butler - again, these characters are not flushed out.
In fact what was all that with Bates taking the shoe horn that out of pocket Molesley purchased as a gift for Earl Grantham - we never saw anymore of how that affected the relationship between the two men or how the gift was presented if Bates took credit - it all disappeared.
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No, they couldn't have Cora dying. She is in for the run of the series. Don't think we will see much more of the Maid. Already she had left the house. Had she not done that then I believe they would have had it go a little further.
That thing was sort of normal back among the Aristocrats back then. Why even Queen Victoria's husband, where that was suppose to be a great love marriage. He is known to have had many mistresses up to him passing. Men will be Men. Many children were born out of wedlock by many Aristocrats and managed to be spirited away.
Now which King Charles was it that had about 17 of these children.? Some of the males he acknowledged and gave titles and land to later . Some of the families still holding on to them today. I have Forgotten lot of my history. So much of it has come out now because of the Internet than we read about years ago.
D and A could sure show up in quite a few people.
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Joanna Lumley was one half of ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS!
Oh, how I loved that series!
She was also beyond wonderful in Nancherrow and Coming Home.
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Did you see her other half in the spoof?
Also did you catch Kim Cattrell?
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Barb, since you brought it up, I was wondering about Molesly and the drinking. The inference in the episode was that he was a drunk, not that he managed to get himself drunk on that one occasion (out of nervousness to get it right?). No where else in the program was there any hint the Molesly might be an alcoholic.
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Mary Page.
I checked the library and they have 5 seasons of Absolutely Fabulous with Joanne Lumley. Ordered them. They also had Coming home.
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I didn't see any previous hint of Molesly being an alcoholic either and am not sure whether they meant to say he was or he just was "tasting" too much that night.
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Ahaa - I wonder - I bet - since all of twentieth century British history seems to be on display I wonder if we are being set up with Molesly, the "drunk" as they described him in this last episode, for his joining the First Century Christian Fellowship organized in 1921 that later became the Oxford Group that was the forerunner of AA.
Buchman, the Lutheran minister of the First Century Christian Fellowship was supposed to have seen the light that led him to originating some of the slogans and 12 step program still used today when he attended a service in some small town in England that starts with a K. The program was picked up by a Bill [forgot his sur name] in the mid 1930s who developed AA but it came from the Oxford Group.
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Barb - out of curiosity I looked this up and the town was Keswick in the Lake District.
Rosemary
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I finally got to see the whole episode last night, and I was surprised that I enjoyed it. Bates is perhaps a tad too chubby to be a sex symbol but you never know. I mean, what could they DO? They could hardly have covered him up like a Bedouin from top to toe with all the bed covers. I am relieved that there won't be any little surprises from Lord Grantham either, as his fling kept getting interrupted, funny.
I really liked it, tho I have to say that after watching the spoof about 100 times I don't look at it quite the same. I think I like it better than I did. hahaha. Every time they go up and down those stairs I see them in the spoof. hahaha Ealing. I have been through Ealing, I must look it up and see what's there. I'll never look at the show the same way again.
For instance, last night when they did their "looks" in the real thing I just burst out loud laughing, thinking of their "looks" in the spoof. They really got it right.
If you like Ab Fab, Jeanne, (which is pretty strong and outrageous) I think one of their best ones was the 20th Anniversary one which just played here on the BBC America channel. The girl who plays the bureaucrat in that was absolutely priceless, and I THINK she may have been (was she?) in this spoof as the youngest daughter. I don't know where Jennifer Saunders finds these people but that 20th Anniversary thing was beyond price.
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Ginny - I'm so glad you got so much out of those spoofs - I watched them again after I'd posted them and they really are hilarious. Didn't you think Simon Callow was a brilliant Fellows? And I honestly thought Kim Cattrell was a better Cora than the actress who really plays her - her 'looks' were spot on. Jennifer Saunders is a genius. My daughters and I love Ab Fab as well - I'm afraid daughters have been watching those DVDs from what was probably far too young an age, but it doesn't seem to have harmed them any. Just the other day Madeleine and I were discussing that designer that Eddi is always wearing - La Croix - as M had found a library book about designing costumes for opera, and apparently he's really good at that, - I suppose all those over-the-top designs would be just right.
Rosemary
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Ginny and Rosemary, I too loved the LOOKS in those spoofs. The guy that spoofed Matthew had that hang-dog expression and the woman who was Mary was priceless with all of the grimacing and brief half-smiles. It's amazing how much they captured in a few minutes.
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They really did! I have a feeling that must have all come from Jennifer Saunders, (I agree, Rosemary, she's a genius), playing in the spoof Dame Maggie Smith, because it has her stamp on it. I wish she'd do a series of it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Rosemary: Simon Cowell!!! YES!! I know the name of course, you hear it everywhere, but I could not put the FACE with that name oh of course. Yes he was perfect, that scene alone with Joanna Lumley, (I hope I'm spelling that correctly), his timing is unbelievable. It's not my biscuit, Darling. hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I looked him up on IMdB and man is he busy as an actor, his 2011 credits alone take almost a whole page. He doesn't look much different than he did in Amadeus, and that was a long time ago.
And I agree I like Kim Cattrell better as Cora. Is Jennifer Saunders calling her "Tim?"
I didn't actually get the doll reference? For some reason it reminds me of Bubble in Ab Fab but I am not sure what it's referencing? I finally managed to hear Matthew's Mother in the spoof asking the Bates actor if he wasn't in Lark Rise to Candleford, or a corruption of same. haahhaa
Did you absolutely love Joanna Lumley's reference to the Carnarvons?
hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Who own Highclere where they film the upstairs?
Oh anyway, so sorry, to digress from the actual production but the spoof nailed them, it really did.
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Ginny - it's Simon Callow, not Cowell - Cowell is that obnoxious man who judges the X Factor or some other 'talent' show!
Highclere belongs to the Earl & Countess of Carnarvon. I bet their visitor numbers have gone up a bit.
I wasn't sure about the doll reference either.
Matthew's mother was played by Victoria Wood in the spoof - she's an extremely funny and well-loved comedienne/actress over here but I don't know if she's ever appeared in the US. She's done some serious stuff as well. She's done a lot of work with Julie Walters and Celia Imrie. She is brilliant at nailing aspects of women's lives - as she's now in her 50s she's very good on the menopause and mid-life crises. She's also written series like "Dinner Ladies", and played the cook in the TV production of Ballet Shoes.
Rosemary
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hahaa well no wonder I can't remember his name: it's Simon Callow, not Cowell - Cowell is that obnoxious man who judges the X Factor or some other 'talent' show! hhahaa, but Callow (would you believe I just wrote Cowell again?) is the one with the busy acting credits in 2011, so that much was right.
Highclere belongs to the Earl & Countess of Carnarvon. Yes, I know. When I was there in 2010 the talk was of Andrew Lloyd Webber's buying the place, I guess that's over, too, what with the series being shot there, and hopefully the money that engenders. The guide vehemently said they would never sell. Most of those touring were British so I really had no idea what they were talking about, apparently Lloyd Webber lives nearby and had made an offer on Highclere? Or wanted to buy it.
I do know the wife of the gatekeeper/ ticket taker was incredibly friendly and invited me in to their...er...little gate house? whatever... while waiting for the taxi. ...It was cold and pouring rain and we discussed dogs, hers lying there on the carpet. I have a very nice memory of Highclere but they had nothing at all about Downton in 2010 displaying.
I wondered who the actress was playing Matthew's Mother! Thank you1 I've actually never heard of her, I'll look up some things she's been in and see if I can watch some of them, Netflix is a veritable boon for a lot of old British programming.
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Ginny - this is she:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/46235951.png&imgrefurl=http://www.last.fm/music/Victoria%2BWood&h=269&w=252&sz=109&tbnid=ncs0vjO2nqUFZM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=91&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dvictoria%2Bwood%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=victoria+wood&docid=AjEEuG2nT-ElzM&sa=X&ei=NOk_T9eIIc2n8QO-ubmfCA&ved=0CFQQ9QEwBw&dur=4587
That link looks so weird that I bet it won't work, so here is one to a wikepedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Wood
Rosemary
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Victoria Wood. Just read her Bio.
As we Lancashire People still say. "Nice to see one of our Lancashire Lasses doing good."
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Wow! Comedienne, actress, author and songwriter, director. Quite versatile lady, I
would say. 'Looking good', indeed.
Final episode tonight! It's a good thing PBS has some more great shows lined up right away,
as I am going to hate ending this one.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
Babi - I know! We were almost bereft when it ended here - but luckily "Call The Midwife" came along just in time, and now daughters and I are addicted to that as well. You need something good on a Sunday night, when everyone except me (who doesn't have to go to work/school) is in a bad mood :)
Rosemary
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I caught the end of a Vicar of Dibley repeat last night--what a scream--we used to be addicted--Dawn French and Geraldine Granger (my favorite!). This was the episode where she gets proposed to by the farmer....anyone else out there like the series???
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Oh Dana I sure hope they bring that series back to our local PBS station - and yes, the proposal food in mouth and all was a riot.
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The "Vicar..." episode I saw last week was her wedding. Is that the series ender?
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It's been awhile but I think so - but wait which wedding - there was the one with Hugo and Alice and then the other with Geraldine and Harry.
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I own the huge boxed set of DVDs of the entire series of The Vicar of Dibley. My favorite episode was the Blessing of the Animals one, and my favorite thing about the entire series was Geraldine (Dawn French) and Alice (Emma Chambers) telling jokes over tea at the very end of each show. I think Emma Chambers is one of the most amazing actresses I've ever seen. I adore Dawn French. She was great in Lark Rise to Candleford, too.
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Barb, the one with Geraldine and Harry.
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Yes, it will be running for 4 hours. Repeating last weeks. I will maybe watch the last half hour of it and then on to the Last 2 hours. Will miss the show. Hope number 3 gets to us without a long delay.
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there may have been a special or two but I think that is right - the end of the series was the marriage of Geraldine and Harry.
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Well tonight it the big one - we expect they will tie all the loose ends together and send us on our way for a new slate of action in series 3 which probably will be out after Christmas next year - I bet they do another Christmas special with a repeat of tonight's Christmas special to get us primed for the next season.
There are some oldies but goodies and what I could never tire of is if they would bring back the earlier All Creatures Great and Small before James gets married and Cold Comfort Farm and the series The Duchess of Duke Street.
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You can get the "Duchess of Duke Street" on DVD. I doubt once the are put on DvD that they will ever run a series again on Masterpiece. to many people will have seen it. That is a good one.
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Very good season ender. I wonder what social issues and changes are in store for next season. So far we are set up with Mary and Matthew on again, Shirley MacLaine coming in from the states, the ongoing efforts to release Bates, and Sybil having a baby. We are certain to see some of Britain's version of the Roaring 20's. The rise of women's suffrage, temperance leagues, labor movement?
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For a bit there I was worried about Daisy but it all turned out better than I imagined - we still have O'Brian and Thomas - oh dear Thomas - he squeaked through but oh dear - and we still have Edith - does she become what she feared - an old maiden aunt that unwraps the presents and puts them on display for every party and anniversary or will she entice the older, one useful arm noble hero of the war. Like you I also thought it was a satisfying ending for this season.
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Oh yes, Edith. I had forgotten that bit. I had hoped that her older gentleman friend would re-enter the picture, and he has, hopefully for more than that brief encounter.I was a bit put out that Mary had chased him away with her unkind remarks.
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Next up, The Old Curiosity Shop. Derrick Jacobi and Zoe Wanamaker. OOOooooooooo! Can't wait.
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I found the episode satisfying too. Maggie Smith had several very funny lines. Matthew looks great when he smiles.
Have Thomas and O'Brien reformed?
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I very much doubt it.
Look at what Thomas did with the dog. Despicable! And then to pretend he had been hunting for her out of the goodness of his heart and his devotion to the earl. Scheesch!
Yes, there are good threads and bad threads in each and every one of us. But Thomas has mostly bad ones and I would not trust him or O'Brien or want either of them near me. If it is a choice of themselves or another, themselves will win every time. William gave his life for Matthew. Thomas got himself shot in the hand so as to get his PERMANENT ticket home from the war! He had no instincts to give his life for his country, let alone the officer he was manservant to!
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I enjoyed the season ender too. Glad that Mary and Matthew finally got together. I'm looking forward to Season 3.
Evelyn
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I thoroughly enjoyed Downton, "warts" and all! I was very sorry to see it end. I'm glad that we will have a season 3, just wish we didn't have to wait so long. No, I don't think Thomas and O'Brien have changed. Who was it that said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them"! They have surely shown us "who they are".
Sally
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Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries is an Australian television drama series of thirteen one-hour episodes, scheduled for airing on ABC1 on 24 February 2012. It is based on Australian author Kerry Greenwood's series of Phryne Fisher detective novels.[1]
I am not sure of your TV network but the above series (Phryne Fisher)may pop up somewhere.
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Sounds great, but I've not heard of it here. Sounds just my cuppa.
The evening news broadcasts here were full of this day marking the 50th anniversary of John Glenn's orbit of planet Earth. And, as is so true of poignant events in one's life, I can remember where I was. Bank of Bethesda, Wildwood Branch, Montgomery County, Maryland. We listened avidly on the radio.
And the moment that brought real tears to my eyes, back in those far off days when my tear ducts still worked, was one I found myself wishing SO HARD today's news anchors would remember and mention. Alas, they were all too young and no one picked up on it. It is what is called a heart-warming moment. A moment of human interest. And it was this:
When John Glenn's spaceship flew over the continent of Australia, those Aussies cheered him on by turning on ALL THEIR LIGHTS. It was nighttime, and they showed their support by turning on every light in his path.
I guess I was remembering the strong comradeship we had during World War II, and now there was this. Yes, I cried then.
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Thanks for the John Glenn info, MaryPage. I was trying to remember where I was, etc. I don't think we even had a radio. I know we didn't have TV. Then I came to -- was in Boston Lying In Hospital getting ready for a C-section the next day. (The hospitals kept you a while back then.) And tomorrow my son will be 50.
Here's a delightful NYT interview with Julian Fellows
Julian Fellows talks about Downton Abbey (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/julian-fellowes-overcomes-his-scruples-and-looks-back-at-season-2-of-downton-abbey/?src=me&ref=general)
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Pedln - thanks for posting that. Fellows gets a lot of flack here (the reviewers who like to think of themselves as highbrow can't abide success in anyone else), but I think he's brilliant.
Roshanarose - that series sounds interesting, I'll look out for it, thanks.
Rosemary
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Actually, O'Brien surprised me when she started to confess when Cora was very ill. And
then she actually criticized Thomas' latest behavior. Her conscience is definitely giving
her trouble.
I'll keep that in mind,ROSHANA. I'd like to try 'Phryne Fisher'; I hope we get it.
The 'poignant event' that I will always remember vividly was hear of John F. Kennedy's
assassination. The shock and disbelief! Where I was is etched vividly in my mind.
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Events I remember where I was and what I was doing:
The sinking of the Panay.
The day the Germans entered Paris.
Pearl Harbor Day.
D-Day.
The day FDR died.
V-E Day.
V-J Day.
The day the Russians put up Sputnik.
The day John Glenn orbited our planet.
The day JFK was shot.
The day we landed a man on the moon.
The 1976 celebrations on TV with the Tall Ships.
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MaryPage, I bet you remember where you were on 9/11, also.
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Ol Thomas shut that dog in the shed with no water, and then set a, was it stick, jammed thru the lock? I'd say he was mighty lucky all around. Had the searchers found the door like that and the dog barking, somebody would have been in hot water.
Absolutely loved Maggie Smith's "Mais où sont les neiges d'antan?" Laughed out loud. I had to memorize that buzzard, and recite it: the Ballade des dames du temps jadis, to get in a French honor society in college, it fits her and the situation perfectly. Fellowes IS brilliant. :)
I loved the cook determinedly moving the Ouija board marker, that was such a hoot, to get Daisy out to the farm, what a sweetheart the father in law turned out to be and how much good it's done Daisy. Love that little sub plot, so picturesque, that's such a sweet story all around. I really like the cook.
Then at the last again with the Ouija board and neither of them pushing, hoot. The thing is a hoot.
Personally, as far as endings go, I was sorry the butler or some maid did not interrupt Mary and Matthew at the end. Would have made a real cliffhanger. :) Maybe Patrick or whatever his name was will come back. Can't figure out Edith's suitor, or non suitor, is he just not attracted to her, or does his arm/hand bother him that much?
I liked that interview with Fellowes, thank you for putting it here, Pedln. I'm kind of with him, I'd have liked to see the skunk Sir Richard, get his due at her hands.
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I am not one prone to superstition, but I have never thought a Ouija board was to be played with or not taken seriously. My sister, who is not particularly superstitious, feels the same about Tarot cards.
Ginny, I read the poem. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me except that the author is pining for the mythical or heroic times past.
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Being extremely practical and pragmatic, I do not believe in "spirits," and therefore feel certain all folk moved by superstition are the victims of their own minds, which have of course been programmed by themselves and others within the framework of their lives. In short, we spook ourselves!
Some years back, I believe it must have been in the seventies, a couple of neighborhood galfriends talked me into going to a "previous lives" all day thing. It was held in a high school gym and everyone was to take a blanket and pillow. A little bit more than 70 people showed up; a woman led us. Folk were all sorts of professions and, of course, being where I am from, a lot were government workers. Well, bottom line, in the afternoon here were 70+ people in a dimmed-light gym lying on their blankets listening to a soothing voice over mesmerizing music. And every cotton picking person in that gym EXCEPT yours truly got hypnotized and dreamed of their "previous lives." I have always found it a hoot how many were Queen Victoria, etc.!
I tried. Believe me, I tried. Just not a gullible wire in my head.
Another hoot, and I have many, was pointed out in the latest National Geographic. So many, many saints managed to have 50 fingers, instead of the usual 10 allotted the rest of us! Churches worldwide boast ownership of this bone, that bone, and t'other! All kept in gold and jeweled boxes on altars.
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It's easy for me to remember where I was when we landed a man on the moon. Like most
of the country, I was glued to our TV set! Same with 9/11. Riveted to the TV with horror
and disbelief.
No fair, GINNY!! Most of us don't speak French, and were wild with curiosity to know
what that meant. And you didn't tell us! Come on, translation, please.
Interesting, MARY PAGE. I don't think things like ouija boards or tarot cards have any intrinsic
power in themselves. I do believe the human mind is capable of far more than we realize. I have
had enough small incidents in my life to convince me of that. The only dream I've ever had which
seemed to be me in a previous life was very short and simple, but seemed real and conveyed a
surprising amount of background that wasn't in the dream itself. (If that makes sense.)
I'm not even sure I believe in previous lives, but a vast number of people do. All of Hinduism, for one, and Buddhism.
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Babi it was a big deal some years ago because a new word was coined - yesteryear - the translations became - Where are the snows of yesteryear - it was the d'antan that poetic license came up with yesteryear. It is a lovely phrase to remember...!
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This is not the site I read yesterday, but I find this one even more interesting. It has several English translations of the poem along with information about the poet, Francois Villon, and several links to other sites.
http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/snows_of_yesteryear.html
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Daniel Gabriel Rossetti, an English poet, coined the word yesteryear in 1870.
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The date of Villon's poem is much earlier. Rossetti must yield that banner. (Wasn't his name
Dante?)
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No, not Dante.
This English poet WAS the one who translated the French poem and, in order to try to get the meaning of the French, invented the word yesteryear. I know this is correct information. Look it up!
Origin:
yester- + year; apparently introduced by D.G. Rossetti (1870) to render Middle French antan (Villon)
Google Daniel Gabriel Rossetti and google "Yesteryear."
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Interesting that they had such similar names. Whoops!! Look! The exact same birth date and
dod is listed for both names! This has got to be the same person. ???
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:D :D ;) like ships passing in the night I am thinking - :o Dante Gabriel Rossetti :-* the use of initials can easily throw us off and Rossetti is usually shown as D.G Rossetti - "The Snows of Yesteryear" by François Villon ... famous, translation into 19th century English, with rhyme, by Dante Gabriel Rossetti...
Dante Gabriel Rossetti (1828-1882), was the son of an Italian political refugee and an English mother, lived and wrote his poetry in England.
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Daniel Gabriel Rosetti was also of Italian heritage, but lived in London. But exact same birth dates
and dates of death??? If these are two different men, I can't help wondering if someone got their facts wrong about those dates. Given the names, if would be easy to do.
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http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/dgr/dgrseti13.html Bio for Rossetti - near as I can tell it appears somehow the first name has been mis-understood - I cannot find a Bio ofr a Daniel only for a Dante - although when I Googled there are a couple of websites and some photos labeled Daniel - however, the vast majority were for Dante and there is no web site that I can find with a Bio on Daniel.
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http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/dgr/works.html
http://www.classic-poems.com/danielrossetti.htm
I have noticed on a number of websites that Daniel Gabriel Rossetti has been called Dante Gabriel Rossetti. This was his name at birth, apparently, and was anglicized to the Daniel at some point.
My guess. Anyway, there are no two with the same name. This Englishman took on the job of translating the French poem and is the only person credited with doing so and this is the poet who coined the word yesteryear. This he did in 1870.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
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Aha mystery solved - thanks MaryPage
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MaryPage - I do remember when John Glenn went over and my family did turn its lights on to illuminate part if his journey, along with millions of others..
I remember when the Russians launched Sputnik. We all stood outside on a very starry night trying to work out the where the "star" was that was moving in an arc. At the moment we saw it, my cat had kittens: we kept one and gave the others away. No prizes for guessing the kitten's name we kept - Sputnik - Sputty for short.
I also remember when JFK was assassinated. About 5.00am I woke up with a start and turned on my transistor, only to hear that shocking news. I never wake early.
There is a most delightful Australian movie I am sure you and others here would enjoy. It is called "The Dish" with Sam Neill. It is about one of those dishes they put up to search space and is based on a true story, ie Neil Armstrong's first steps on the Moon. It has one of my favourite movie moments in it, but I won't tell so as not to spoil it for you.
http://thedishmovie.warnerbros.com/
Ever since WWII Australia has enjoyed a close bond with the US. Long may it last!
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I think radio telescopes are beautiful (no accounting for taste). I always wanted on for my backyard. When traveling down route 15, I used to love passing the big line of dishes down in Fredrick, Maryland. They have since built buildings between them and the highway which obscured them.
The movie is unknown to me, MaryPage. I will have to look into it.
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Babi, looks like plenty of great translations and also some interesting info presented here on the poem. Lovely discussion on it.
I read the Sunday Times (UK) on my IPAD and they had an article about Downton Withrdawal and it said ready for another? Apparently Upstairs Downstairs is starting in the UK, but not here. It will be interesting to see if that series holds up, I've spent so much time with this one all I can remember is the monkey, and that only vaguely.
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We watched the first episode of the new series of Upstairs Downstairs last Sunday and we all got bored and went to bed.
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I just checked the tv listings for my PBS station and "The Old Curiosity Shop" will not be showing on Masterpiece Classic this evening. Instead, all three hour-long episodes of the "Upstairs Downstairs" 'sequel' will be broadcast this evening.
LOL, Ginny, all I remember of the episodes is Solomon, the monkey, too. I don't even remember if I liked it.
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Oh Marcie, don't take my word for it! I think I have too many memories of the original series to enjoy this one, and my daughters just couldn't get into it - Anna felt Keeley Hawes was awfully wooden, and we none of us think Alex Kingston can act, I'm afraid - but you might see it quite differently - let us know!
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Oh you are talking about the new Upstairs Downstairs that is a continuation of the old one - yes, we saw that last summer or early fall and where there were a few good scenes by and large it was dull - as I recall there is a flair up between Keeley Hawes character and the husband and husband's mother - forgot who played the parts but except for the head housekeeper who was a matured actress from the original they were all simply going through their paces. No spark - nothing to remember - I am looking forward to this version of Curiosity Shop 'Brother Cadfael' Derek Jacobi playing the grandfather.
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I think that "The Old Curiosity shop" is going to be on our Station tonight. At the Moment watching the Red Carpet. Now last weeks Downton Abbey is on from 6:30 until 8pm and then the Old Curiosity Shop. Will see.
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OCS is on our PBS station.
Jean
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It is on here and I just had to walk out of the room when they are in the Tavern and he is asking her for their money - errrr I get squeamish and hate it when it seems obvious that a wrong is going to be done...ouch er er ouch stop I will have a cup of tea and go back in later.
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A lot of wimpy behavior. Nell barely said a word and only alluded to her Grandfather's habit. I liked the program, but didn't like the ending (for Nell) so much. Would have liked to have seen more of Zoe Wanamaker, but wasn't she marvelous? What a splash of color in a mostly gray world. I also liked the shot of Nell and Grandfather sitting by the road when they first fled surrounded with all that green. Lovely. It dawns on me that Nell's brother didn't show up at the end, even though his friend managed to get himself married. Is that explained in the book?
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They didn't explain the 'whole story' on the tardily returned son and father, either. Apparently
he made his fortune, but it wasn't any help to his poor daughter. My favorite characters were
Kit and his mother. The Brass brother and sister were so typically Dickens, I think I would have
recognized their origin anywhere.
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I didn't watch Masterpiece last night. Was it a One night only show? I read the book years ago in School.
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It did appear to be just the one show - based on the older PBS version that ran several episodes this had to have been a truncated version. I started to watch but Derek Jacobi was so convincing in his obsession to gamble I just could not watch. Seeing that kind of connection to an obsession turns me inside out.
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It was indeed a very truncated version. So many characters and side plots dropped.
Nell, I fear, did not come across too realistically.
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Well, that explains it then. A lot was left out.
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As a non sequitur, something interesting happened to me last night when previewing a film for my face to face classes, from the Discovery Channel on Pompeii: The Last Day or something like that. They've chosen to dramatize it as if it were a family and I kept looking at the father, and listening to him talk, he's got a distinctive voice, and guess who it was?
The Butler on Downton!! hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa I knew I had seen him before, what a hoot! Oh man. Too bad I'm not showing it to the class after all, but it IS a hoot. Maybe I will show the first bit of it and see if they can figure out who it is!
Simon Callow, whom we discussed here before, has written a very moving story of his mother's dementia. I did not know he was a writer, too. He seems a man for many seasons. I like his work immensely. (He did the Julian Fellows part in the spoof).
I am really sorry to read that the new installment of Upstairs, Downstairs , the new one which did not show here but I was all atwitter, is boring. It was somewhat boring the first go round, if one is honest, but I think nostalgia carried many of us thru, picking up this or that reference.
The first one was a revelation and many of us were hooked on it as we were Brideshead Revisited. I think we miss that type of thing and are glad to see it coming back, especially in these economic times, and the new Downton.
They need to time Upstairs Downstairs better, to appear when Downton is not such a fresh memory, so we can get used to it, also, and recall the characters more vividly. So we can also be as interested in it.
Perhaps play it over and over like they do here anyway with Downton, which, despite being well loved, is also somewhat ludicrous. I mean you can't get away from that. I like it, but I also find self bursting out laughing in the wrong places, (or maybe it's intended) and the ending was too pat. Too convenient, poor saintly Lavinia, gone in a poof. That and the ending and the disappearance again of Patrick kind of spoils the willing suspension of disbelief.
And there can be two, stately upstairs/ downstairs period pieces going (after all, who started the genre?) without having to compete with each other. The presence of more than one beautiful woman in the room does not diminish any others: it should only enhance them. The producers and publicists of Upstairs Downstairs need to work harder, or so I think. I am loving comparing it to the old one, I'm surprised what I see in the old Upstairs/ Downstairs, on the old tapes, now, too.
Nobody will ever beat Gordon Jackson (Hudson) or Mrs. Bridges (Angela Baddeley) tho the new cook in Downton is VERY good. Angela Baddeley had a 63 year career on stage, I am shocked to learn and Gordon Jackson was in the Alistair Sim Christmas Carol movie, in the Minister's Cat party scene at the last at Fred's house. Again kind of a nice surprise to recognize him.
I'm finding the recommended novel The Shooting Party to sort of be tiresome. I'm afraid to use the word boring, but it is. It purports to be what one should read of the genre, the real thing, if one likes Downton Abbey. It's real enough that one can see why Princess Diana hated such things in real life: I'm with her. I think I'll try one of the other recommendations. :)
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Ginny - I don't know if you've seen this article, which suggests a few other Downton-era novels:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/russell-smith/downton-fever-these-books-came-first/article2331216/
I've only read The Go-Between; it's wonderful.
Rosemary
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Here's to that friendship lasting forever, Roshanarose. I will try to see The Dish.
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I meant to say I plan to see it, too. I hope I can someday see my current Netflix films which have been out for ages and return them. I've put The Dish on my list and it looks wonderful.
There was a movie I loved years ago for TV starring Linda Lavin and Lane Smith, it was a true story about a woman whose husband had always wanted to run a sheep ranch and they moved or I should say he sent HER ahead to Australia with the 10 was it 10 children as he was tied up with business and she had to carve the sheep ranch out of nothing, it was very inspiring, the more so because it was true. And you guessed it, he did not come, that is, he came once but it was obvious he did not intend to stay. She became a nun after the last child grew up. It was called A Place to Call Home. It's not available much anywhere but I somehow got a copy and I love it.
Rosemary, no I had not seen the list but any list with Remains of the Day on it got my attention, I think it's one of the best books I've ever read, so I made quite a long list of things to get from that list and The Go-Between is on the top. You always have the best recommendations!
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It looks like Masterpiece Classic won't be on again until April, when it resumes with a new adaptation of GREAT EXPECTATIONS.
What is showing at your local PBS this Sunday? It looks like mine will broadcast Phantom of the Opera at Royal Albert Hall.
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This week we get another look at Downton - next week the Phantom is on in the afternoon and we have Wayne Deyer all evening - the third week we have Les Mis in Albert Hall and the fourth week of March we have back to back the entire Oliver Twist. Realizing these PBS versions of Dickens are truncated I will watch for atmosphere and scenery and realize to enjoy the story and the incredible writing ability of Dickens it is best to read the book.
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My local PBS is showing a Peter, Paul and Mary anniversary thing. The following week will be a big band thing. I won't be surprised if this is another begging for dollars two week schedule. The last two weeks of March aren't scheduled yet.
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March 1 - 18 is "Fund Raising" on our PBS station. Right now, none of the "premiere" shows listed after that particularly appeal to me.
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Judging from what is on the next two weeks, I feel sure that we are having ANOTHER pledge drive. If it is like the other drives; it will last all month. I think PBS has too many pledge drives and they seem to last for an entire month. Most of what that show are repeats of repeats. I support PBS financially; but make sure it is NOT during the pledge drive and I let them know how I feel, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
Sally
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I agree. I think that we'll be having a pledge drive too.
I am looking forward to seeing the adaptation of Great Expectations in April. This version has been nominated in Great Britain for "best drama series" by the Broadcasting Press Guild TV Awards. The BPG awards are highly prized by program-makers because they are selected independently, by journalists who write about TV and radio – correspondents, critics and previewers. Gillian Anderson also is nominated as best actress. Read more about the BPG awards at http://www.broadcastingpressguild.org/2012/02/23/shortlists-announced-for-broadcasting-press-guild-tv-awards/
While we are waiting for Masterpiece Classic to resume, let's continue to talk about any PBS program that we see and we also can revisit any of our favorite programs from the past.
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Marcie, I loved that Gillian Anderson version of Great Expectations, but not everyone did. I thought she was brilliant, as was Ray Winstone ;D and David Suchet, but some people complained that Anderson 'overacted'. Personally I thought she nailed Miss Havisham to a tee (?tea?).
Rosemary
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Rosemary, I'm glad that you liked the Great Expectations adaption. I'm inclined to like anything with Gillian Anderson since I was an "X-Files" fan ;)
I was wondering why she was doing "English" parts so I looked up her bio and find that, though she was born in the U.S., she lived from about age 2 to age 11 in England because her father took the family there so he could attend the London Film School.
I love the photo of Gillian Anderson in the image from the series.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
It looks like there may be another adaptation of Great Expectations in the near future, with Helena Bonham Carter as Miss Havisham. See http://filmonic.com/first-images-of-helena-bonham-carter-as-miss-havisham-in-great-expectations
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I feel unreasonably prejudiced against that, as Helena Bonham Carter just annoys me. Probably because she's successful, beautiful, clever, rich and all that jazz ;D I will try to re-open my mind....
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Helena Bonham Carter is very odd but I do like her. I think of her as sort of a female Johnny Depp, whom I like very much. :)
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Oh I do like him ;)! I don't know what it is about her - I suppose I sort of feel she gets her roles because she is married, or not married?, to Tim Burton. She's sort of self-consciously cooky. As I said before, it's just jealousy really....though I don't think I'd like to be married to Mr Burton.
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I thought that she had children with Tim Burton but not married to him. I don't think I would want to be either.I sort of like her. Love to have her hair.
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I saw Helena in a few things (she's been in a lot of films!) before she started working with Tim Burton. I liked her in A Room with a View, Howard's End, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Mighty Aphrodite, and The Wings of the Dove. She does seem more "kooky" when I've glimpsed her just being "herself" at award functions. Maybe she is more comfortable playing roles?
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I wouldn't have recognized Gillian Anderson at all from that photo. I always associate
her with that lovely red hair.
The picture of HBC as Miss Havisham is much spookier. I really know nothing about her. I checked, and it would seem I haven't seen most of the films she has been in. I did see "The King's Speech", and thought she did very well in that.
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I just cannot help my gut instincts. Pardon me for putting it so bluntly, but it does come down to the stomach and gut feelings. In my case, and probably in most of yours, this atavistic primal feeling coming directly from the reptilian portion of the brain kicks in when meeting up with or viewing on the screen a person for the first time.
Sometimes we change our first impressions to come to like someone we first shrink from. Sometimes we come to distrust someone who beguiles us at first. It is a mix, at best; but over 82 years I have come to trust my ancestral genes.
Helena Bonham Carter I have never liked. I have tried. I will admit she is a wonderful actress, and I have seen almost everything she has ever made. But some deep instinct makes me dislike her. Rather intensely! Probably looks like someone who killed my great, great, great grandmother, or something. Anyway, as Susan of the Avonlea books would say: to me she is not "of the tribe of Joseph!"
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I have come to trust my instincts, too, MARYPAGE. I do, though, try to keep an open and
impartial mind and not pass any final judgments on anyone until I have some evidence one way
or another. As you say, some immediate dislikes are rooted in incidents/persons that we have
pretty much forgotten otherwise.
Having said that, I can say that on three occasions in my long life, I have observed a newly
engaged couple, and felt that there was something wrong there. Nothing overt, just a gut
response to body language, I believe. In all three instances, the marriages did not last very
long.
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Here is some info on The Phantom of the Opera at Royal Albert Hall which will be shown on my PBS station tonight.
http://www.thephantomoftheopera.com/news/latest-news/the-phantom-of-the-opera-at-the-royal-albert-hall
I never heard of Ramin Karimloo, who stars as the Phantom (the youngest person to play the Phantom-- he is 33). He's certainly a good-looking phantom!
http://www.raminofficial.com/gb/gallery/
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Rosemarykaye.
Over the weekend I watched about 8 hours of the Series "Lark rise to Candleford" Season three. Loved it. My fathers family all from Birch Vale. Derbyshire . I have been doing Ancestry research for past 6 year and have photo's of the Area they lived and worked in from 1800. Great Grandparents married 1856. The homes and building in Birch Vale and the Town of Candleford looked just about the same. Found myself picturing my family all growing up like those people. Dressed the same. Living the same. Such fun. That whole area of Derbyshire is so beautiful. ( I know that Candleford was suppose to be close to Oxford.).
Makes one wish they had lived back then. (Maybe for a short time). Would have liked to have met my GGrands. They had nine children but seemed to have had such a happy life together.
I now have to see if there is a Series four and five.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
Jeanne there is the book - it was written back I think before WWII - my copy has to be at least 40 years old and is a hardback where as this is a paperback of the book available from Amazon
http://tinyurl.com/6lmcdyn
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Jeanne, i had a look on Amazon and there is a series 4 and 5 available here. I have to say I have never seen any of it, something I really must get on DVD as it was massively popular here - it was just on at a time when I didn't have time to sit down and watch it.
I don't know Derbyshire very well, but when my ex-SIL had her 50th birthday, she invited all of her female friends to spend a weekend at Ilam Hall, a Youth Hostel near Ashbourne. It's an amazing place - this is a picture of it:
http://www.yha.org.uk/find-accommodation/peak-district-sherwood/hostels/Ilam/index.aspx
We had a wonderful time and lots of beautiful walks.
Rosemary
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Valerie and I loved "Lark Rise to Candleford". Valerie has said she missed the people
in that series, and wishes it could continue.
Oh, my, ROSEMARY. That huge place is a hostel? It's magnificent! Was it comfortable?
I would love to visit there, but it looks a bit chilly. I do so miss being able to
travel.
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I own all 4 years, seasons, series of Lark Rise to Candleford. I just love, love, love it. Did you notice that Bates of Downton Abbey is the man who lives in Lark Rise and is married to I forget-her-name and I am at work without time to look it up, but the blond with all the children and their daughter works for the postmistress in Candleford.
And the blond with all the children, a remarkable actress, was the maid to Judi Dench in Cranford. I own all of Cranford, as well.
Dawn French of Vicar of Dibley is also in Lark Rise to Candleford. She is not in every season because she had other committments. So they put her in jail (gaol) in the scripts!
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Babi - it was very comfortable, and not at all cold - the Youth Hostel Association hostels are always really well heated, often better than some small hotels. In my mother's time, you were not allowed to arrive at a YHA hostel in a car (had to be bike or walking), you brought your own food, and there was strictly no alcohol on the premises. All of these rules have long gone, and at Ilam there is a nice self-service restaurant and a cosy bar. it doesn't seem to have led to any difficulties - it's all very low key, with lots of families with children staying there - we all had a drink in the bar and there was certainly no-one over-indulging - but I think people who use the YHA are generally outdoorsy, well-behaved sorts. I think the larger hostels in particular have had to adapt - people are prepared to rough it in the tiny, remote, quaint ones (there is a wonderful one called Tanner's Hatch that was really just a cottage, when I went there maybe 25 years ago it had no electricity and you got an oil lamp to go to bed by. It is set in woodland - I loved it):
http://www.yha.org.uk/find-accommodation/south-east-england/hostels/tanners-hatch/index.aspx
- but in the larger hostels they want a little more comfort.
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Rosemarykaye.
I ran a check on both those sites you posted above. Put the dates in which I thought I would like to do some checking in Derbyshire. I put in for a Single. (usually travel that way). I was a member of YHA for years but at the moment I 'm not. Looks like the are not set up for singles. Ilam Hall looks really interesting.
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I checked my library and they have all 5 seasons of Lark Rise to Candleford. I watched season 3 already and so looks like I will be watching 2 and 4 next weekend. Little out of order but don't think it makes much difference in this Series.
Check your library. they most probably have them. I try not to buy books anymore. I will own Downton Abbey. Have number 1 and soon will buy No 2 or wait until 3 comes out and then buy the set. May also buy Lark Rise to Candleford I think they have the full set in one box.
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I thought there had been only 4 seasons of Lark Rise. Where can I get the 5th season? It was my understanding that Season 4 was the end of the series. I think it was because, despite its huge popularity, the major stars were all signed up for other series.
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MaryPage, i think you are right - I checked again and I must have mis-read it. Really sorry to raise anyone's hopes!
Jeanne - when we stayed at Ilam it was in a large shared room (but we were a large party). I know that some YHA hostels do now do single rooms, but I don't know which - maybe more the city centre ones, as they often used to be hotels and were bought up by YHA when they closed. I remember staying in the one in central Newcastle and having my own little room.
Rosemary
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Ah, what a clever way to explain the long disappearances of the irresponible mother.
And it added so much to the story of the eldest son.
Sounds perfect, ROSEMARY. The cottage in the woodland I would have loved, too...25
years ago. :)
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Mary.
I think that you are correct. Only 4 seasons. I just picked it up at the library today. They said that they had the 2011 copy of Upstairs Downstairs if I wanted to take it.
Will decide which one to watch tonight..
Rosemarykaye. I know that quite a few of the YHA around the world do have singles. I did have the book showing. I need to join again and ask for the new book. New York and Chicago have some nice ones.
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seems to me I read that the version shown in Britain was many hours longer and maybe even a 5th season. Again, the PBS purchases a shorter version.
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Each series of most Masterpiece DVD seem to run for 3 hours .Now Candleford I watched 4th season for 3 hours and it comes with 2 DVD and so still have another 3 hours to watch. And so with all 4 seasons that would be 24 hours of watching. I think that this 4 season could be it because things seem to be coming to cl-osie. Will see after tonight.
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At the library yesterday I picked up a large book telling all the series that are out on DVD which now seem to be all that has been Televised. Great book as it gives the names of all the stars in the shows. Tells their lives. Also which have passed away. Looks like its back 25 years.
Lots we have not shown on our PBS station here. I have made a list of the ones I have seen and then the one I still want to see. Looks like I have 27 of them still to go. Will now check and make a list for library and see which they have, are can get. The size of both libraries should have most of them.
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Jeanne, i love lists! What are the series that you are hoping to get?
Rosemary
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I just popped in here wondering if anyone is watching "The Drama of Downton Abbey"??Its on PBS tonight at 8pm in my hometown of Gahanna, Ohio, and will be on 'til 10pm. That's two hours of seeing how it was done. And its really quite interesting. Hope someone else is enjoying as am I!
A brief note: I just read a few posts from page 11 and will come back tomorrow to hear about some shows that I am not acquainted with. And I will be taking the titles and seeing if our library is carrying any of them.
Jeanne
What's the title of your library's book? Will it be in mine?
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JeanneP, that book sounds like a great resource. Like Rosemary, I'm interested in finding out which series you want to view.
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The Book is a large size sort of Tabletop book. Called "Masterpiece Theatre" A Celebration of 25 years of Outstanding Televisiion.
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I just found the Table of Contents for that book, Jeanne, at http://www.amazon.com/Masterpiece-Theatre-Celebration-Outstanding-Television/dp/091233374X#reader_091233374X
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I just ordered a used copy for 1cent plus shipping from my home state of Indiana. Hope it has all the pages.
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What a good buy, Annie!!
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Thanks Annie. I just ordered a used copy (like new) for .30 plus 3.99 shipping from Amazon. I plan to give it to my sil for her birthday. She is very hard to buy for and she loves Masterpiece theater; so I think it may be the perfect gift.
Sally
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Hooray! I have even found it on Amazon UK for £0.01 + postage, and the seller is the PDSA (People's Dispensary for Sick Animals) so I can feel quite virtuous about parting with all of £3 :)
Rosemary
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Oooh, thank you for finding that table of contents, MARCIE. I've jotted down a few titles
and am hoping to find them on either Netflix or in my library. One I've never heard of,
..Poldark? Does anyone know what that is about?
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Poldark, written by another favorite Englishman Winston Graham, is a series of rather swashbuckling novels set in Cornwall. I think 18th century. I loved all of Graham's books and was thrilled with the Poldark television series, albeit of course it was not portrayed quite the way I had it in my head and the series did not follow the books as perfectly as I would have liked.
But you will enjoy Poldark very much.
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Oooh yes, I remember Poldark - Angharad Rees was Demelza. I've no doubt she's been in lots of things since then, but I think she'll always be Demelza to most people over here.
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Gosh! I can't believe that book bought for so cheap. Wonder if the right one. Now the one I have has one the front. up in the right hand corner , the cast of Upstairs/downstairs. Do these books have that?
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FYI
I just checked the PBS website and two full episodes of Oliver Twist are available, only until 3/12/12. It looks like the episodes are about 1 1/2 hours each. When I checked the original site, it says it's a 6 hour adaptation so I'm not sure what's going on.
The videos are at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
The PBS Oliver Twist site is at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/olivertwist/index.html
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Netflix does have it, MARYPAGE & ROSEMARY. I'll be adding Poldark to my queue. Thanks
for the thumbs up.
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PBS MASTERPIECE CLASSIC - GREAT EXPECTATIONS BOOK GIVEAWAY
Continuing the focus on the anniversary of Charles Dickens' 200th birthday, Masterpiece Classics on PBS will premier a new adaptation of Great Expectations on Sunday, April 1. The program has been nominated in Great Britain for "best drama series" by the Broadcasting Press Guild (BPG) TV Awards.
Our friends at the PBS Educational offices in Boston have generously offered our SeniorLearn readers a limited number of the 150th Anniversary/Penguin Classics Deluxe edition of Great Expectations free, just for the cost of postage. Interested? If you'd like to own one of these book copies, simply post your interest in SeniorLearn's PBS Discussion (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2716.400) by March 16. If the number of requests is greater than the number of books provided by Masterpiece Classics, we will hold a random drawing of names from the relevant posts in the discussion. We will follow up later for your address. Open to U.S. residents only.
Talk about any PBS programs, or indicate your interest in receiving a copy of the 150th Anniversary/Penguin Classics Deluxe book, Great Expectations, at http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2716.400
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What a generous offer! I would love to have one of the books - put me on the list, please!
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I,too, am interested in receiving a copy of the 150th Anniversary/Penguin Classics Deluxe book, Great Expectations. What a treat, JoanP. Put me on the list!
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Of course I'd love a copy ot the 150th Anniversary/Penguin Classics Deluxe edition of Great Expectations. Do you still have my address JoanP?
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Please add me to the list. What a Great giveaway. Do you have my address?
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Yes, but ONLY if there are enough copies - if not take me off the list - thanks
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Marcie. On the Masterpiece DVD. on each one there are usually 3 hours. Go one hour then. comes up again for 2 more 1 hour run. Will be 2 DVD in each case. so you will be getting 6 hours. At least all I have gotten were that way.
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JeanneP, thanks for the info about the Masterpiece DVDs. The episodes of Oliver Twist are on their website at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html. Those are the two that seem like they are 1 1/2 hours each, but the website dedicated to the Oliver Twist program, says that it's a 6 hour series.
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Now I did get one BBC the other day that was for 6 hours. Had 4 disc in it.
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With all the DVD that I have been getting this past two weeks on Masterpiece and BBC. I have not gotten much housework done. But really enjoying myself.
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JoanP, I would love an anniversary edition of Great Expectations, but only if there are enough to go around. If there are not, don't put my name in for the drawing.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
Please add my name to the list of the PBS giveaways. Thanks.
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Please add my name to PBS giveaway - Great Expections.
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Please add my name also.
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My PBS station is showing a Great Performances tonight: Tony Bennett Duets II.
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About the only show on channels other than PBS that I enjoy is the Good Wife - why they moved it to Sunday night at 8: I cannot figure out - it was nicely placed late on Tuesday - the content you would think they would have at least switched it to Sunday at 9: but it appears they must be aware their audience in the Sunday night PBS crowd because they did not run but one episode during this recent Downton Abby series and so now I can enjoy the Good Wife for a couple of weeks till PBS gets back to it usual lineup.
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Marcie, i think I have seen that Tony Bennett programme and it was really good - if it's the one I'm thinking of it has the duet with Amy Winehouse recorded shortly before her death.
Rosemary
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I guess as a non Dickens fan I am a bit behind the times here, but since the end of Dowton Abbey my husband and I watched again Gosford Park and from that got into Ivor Novello and the music from between the wars. So many musicals, and so lyrical, a bit dramatic by today's standards perhaps, but such an antidote to all that ghastly beat (nothing wrong with a little beat.....but.....). I remember my mum and dad singing these songs around the house, and it is really poignant to listen to them now because people of my age are probably the youngest alive with a direct connection to those times if only via the songs.....You Are My Heart's Delight, Rosemarie, Girls Are Made to Love and Kiss, Waltz of my Heart, Chiribiribin.....Deanna Durbin, Richard Tauber, Nelson Eddy, Jeanette MacDonald, Webster Booth. Musicals--The Desert Song, The Chocolate Soldier, The Night is Young, The merry Widow, The Dancing years etc, etc. etc.
Add to this A Dance to the Music of Time and presently I am immersed in the early 20th century!!
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Please add my name to the PBS giveaway. Thanks.
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Me too. :) I'm enjoying at the moment A Handful of Dust by Evelyn Waugh which was on Rosemary Kay's list of books to read of the period, and happened to come first in the mail. It's quite different and I really like it, I'm just getting into it but what vacuous lives the upper crust had and lived. It's fascinating, it really is.
For my birthday I got The World of Downton Abbey, with a subtitle of the Secrets and History Unlocked, which is a lovely book, large, and full of photos, by Jessica Fellowes, forward by Julian Fellowes, the author of the series, which has been mentioned here before. It's a perfect gift for somebody who likes the series and I'm enjoying it very much. Lots about the facts and history and behind the scenes stuff.
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Rosemary, yes Tony Bennett's Duets II has Amy Winehouse in it. It also has Willie Nelson (age 78) singing with Bennett (85). See http://www.amazon.com/Duets-II-Tony-Bennett/dp/B0052GACNM
Dana, I love musicals too. I periodically watch Fred Astaire-Ginger Rogers and others.
Ginny, that book about Dowton Abbey sounds great. I'm going to have to look for the Handful of Dust book too. Thanks for mentioning it again.
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yes Ginny that's EXACTLY what I keep thinking--what vacuous lives the upper crust seem to have led--it's what puts me off A Dance to the Music of Time, actually, but now I'm into the writing which is very clever, but I can only read a little at a time for that very reason, it gets kind of boring, like reading a beautifully written gossip column about people who don't exist...
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I watched the Movie "Frankie" last night. Think it has been around for awhile. I enjoyed it. Looked like it was filmed around the Glasgow Dock area. Still look rough.
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If you are a Micheal Finestein fan, an American Songbook fan, or saw the show of PBS, you may enjoy this site. I placed it in "Music, Music, Music" in Seniors and Friends, but i think some of you don't go there, so here 'tis.
http://www.michaelfeinsteinsamericansongbook.org/
If you click on any of the pictures, you can get info about the songs, the performers, the composers and on each of those links you can listen to some of the songs by either the "recordings" or "the great songs" links.
Enjoy!
Jean
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Thanks for posting the American Songbook site, Jean. The program was great and I enjoy Michael Feinstein's singing/piano playing.
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Things have changed since the two world wars, I believe. Many of the 'upper crust' now struggle
to keep their large old homes viable, and many have been unable to do so. The life of idle ease
is pretty much a thing of the past for most of them. Today's 'idle ease' group appear to be
mostly the too-rich younger generation, who break their boredom by getting into scrapes while
their fathers are heavily invested in making and keeping their wealth. Some of the mothers
imitate the former wealthy aristocrats, while others are busy professionals themselves.
Little changes in life, only the players. 8)
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yes Ginny that's EXACTLY what I keep thinking--what vacuous lives the upper crust seem to have led--it's what puts me off A Dance to the Music of Time, actually, but now I'm into the writing which is very clever, but I can only read a little at a time for that very reason, it gets kind of boring, like reading a beautifully written gossip column about people who don't exist...
That's A Handful of Dust (was just talking about the issues in it in the Library) in a nutshell. It's a Capote-esque sort of experience so far. One has the feeling that Waugh knows these people intimately and has somewhat disguised them despite the disclaimers, and I guess that's what's so maddening about it, or one of the things anyway. Perhaps as it goes, if I can mange to avoid throwing the book across the room in anger at the stupidity of the characters's vapid actions, I'll see the famous sardonic wit.
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yes well, there are lists
telling who the characters in "A dance to the music of time" represent in real life. But who knows if true, and a lot of them I don't know about anyway and in any case, it's all so long ago, who cares....but, the writing is clever...sort of reminds me of my feelings about Jane Austin whose writing is superlative, understanding of character rivals Shakespeare's, but stories are trivial....and irritating (imo.....)
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Our second PBS station is just now showing Downton Abbey, so i get to see it again and they are now showing " The Story of the Costume Drama". It is great!
Jean
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Jane Austen's books are not stories of major and important events, DANA. They are simply
stories of people in another era, written in a way that immerses you in the time and place and
gives you a feel for what those times were like. The characters could be your own friends, or
even family, and they are seen so much more clearly in Miss Austen's thoughtful hands. And
I find I care about the outcomes. Jane Austen is a great favorite of mine.
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To me, Jane Austen is incomparable and she remains my favorite author after all these many years.
Did you hear the cast of Downton Abbey was at the White House dinner for the Prime Minister of Great Britain last night?
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Really? Downton Abbey was a British film, right? How did it happen that the cast was in
America and attended a White House dinner, I wonder? How curious.
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I saw a news story on the White House dinner that showed the American actress who played the character Lady Cora in "Downton Abbey" as a guest. However, no other cast member was mentioned.
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That would make more sense, CALLIE. Thanks for soothing my curiosity bump. ;)
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Just read elsewhere that Hugh Bonneville was also a guest at the White House dinner. I'm not at all surprised that "Downton Abbey" actors were included. The British PM may like the program, too. :)
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Our local Washington, D.C. television news said: "Guests included the cast of Downton Abbey." And I saw at least 3 shown in evening clothes attending the dinner. They were, of course, officially invited guests and the guest list is made up by the State Department Office of Protocol and the White House. I have no idea how many of the cast were actually invited, nor do I know how many attended. There is an official list of attendees in The Washington Post on the day after any official state dinner, but I failed to read this one. Will see if I can find it on line.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304692804577283783097788136.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#slide/1
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/14/expected-attendees-tonight-s-state-dinner
Apparently it was only the two stars who were present that night. My eyes deceived me.
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That was quite a mix of interesting people. I think just to many. That I can never understand. Sort of like saying "Lets have a big party and get it over with for the year".
You always find people get into their own little groups when a big turnout like that. Just don't mix.
Would have been nice to have been invited.
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MaryPage, thank you for that link. I enjoy reading about White House entertainments - and never know where to look for them.
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Wow can you imagine being one of those invited teachers or the young Military Mom raising four and having a chance to meet and chat with and learn more about their world from Lionel Barber, to the owner and CEO of Trilogy to Warren Buffet to a British actor to George Clooney who was arrested today outside the Sudan Embassy in D.C. - wow - there would be no way to shake hands and chat with more than 10 of these folks but what a treat for all of them at that dinner as they make more contacts and learn from each other about a world not only different than their own but a contact they may see how to call on for assistance in the future. Wow - my mind is reeling - I never realized before since this is the first I have ever seen a guest list for a White House dinner - thanks for posting it...
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One of the perks of living in the Washington, DC metropolitan area is that The Washington Post, plus all of the many papers we USED to have that have died along the way as so many newspapers have now, and the radio and television carry a lot about these State Dinners. The President is required to have a number every year, and always when a Head of State pays our country a visit. They are fascinating.
There are always the Head of State and family members who accompanied and the top personal from the pertinent local embassy and other important embassy people from other countries who live on embassy row here and x number of congress and senators and x number of movie stars to dazzle the important political guests and x number of big money contributors and x number of just plain famous, such as Bill Gates who is very much so although none of the above. And yes, it has always fascinated me to read the lists. I remember well that every time the Carters hosted a State Dinner, Miss Amy Carter was on the list. A GREAT set of memories for her! The story goes that she often brought a book to table! The set up is usually, although not always, round tables of ten. Dress is always formal.
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My very favorite part of State Dinners, though, has never been the people, clothes or entertainment. It has always been the table settings; i.e., decorations and themes, and the MENU!
I was SO gratified and also felt sad and nostalgic (I get very homesick for my Shenandoah Valley and Blue Ridge Mountains) to see dessert this week at our nation's State Dinner for the Prime Minister of Great Britain included Newtown Pippin apples. The Newtown Pippin was discovered first in my own home town of Stephens City, Virginia back when it was known as Newtown. Unfortunately, Stephens City had 436 residents when I was a school child, and no one ever thought to stake our claim. Some place in Long Island hit the history books; but we know better. When we had a High School, which had right next to it in the same school yard the Elementary School, which was only first through seventh grades (no 8th grade at all), the name of our yearbook was the Newtown Pippin. I don't believe my home town has had its own school since sometime in the sixties or seventies.
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Many of the ingredients for the menu, which was called a Winter Harvest Dinner, were grown in the White House Kitchen garden and harvested on the day of the dinner.
The dinner was served in a tent which erected and lavishly decorated for the occasion.
Course one: Crisped halibut with potato crust, served on bed of braised baby kale from White House garden, shaved Brussels sprouts and micro cabbage sprouts with hint of applewood smoke bacon from local smokehouse
Salad course: Spring garden lettuces with shallot dressing and shaved radish, cucumbers and avocados
Main course: Bison wellington, using buffalo tenderloin, red wine reduction, French beans, cipollini onion
Dessert: Warm meyer-steamed lemon pudding with Idaho huckleberry sauce with Newtown pippin apples.
American wine
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2115161/White-House-state-dinner-British-stars-come-force-join-Cameron-Obama.html#ixzz1pJJrlYXQ
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Fabulous - thank you so much for sharing - what an opportunity for those in attendance...
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Loved the pictures and write up of the dinner - as well as the pix/writeup of Kate/Charles/Camilla doing an art project with young children at a school.
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If your name is on the following list, you are one of the lucky recipients of the 150th Anniversary Edition of Great Expectation. To receive your copy, please email your name and mailing address to JoanP at: jonkie@verizon.net. Don't send any postage until you receive your book. The amount will be stamped on the mailing envelope. Thanks! And congratulations!
Adoannie
Barbara StAubrey
Betty Smith
Cassidy
dean69
Frybabe
JoanR
judeS
Tomereader
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Holy Hannah maybe my luck is changing - I have had so many things stolen from me in the past year that I thought I had a target on my back and on my house that only certain people could see - this is absolutely grand - thanks so much - I am really taking this as an omen - you have no idea how my trust in others has been broken - once or twice but 4 times and with folks I had in my home - ouch - so this is an Irish luck charm since this is St Patrick's Day that this news was shared - I may even paint my front door green to further this lucky omen.
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Congratulations to all who are recipients of the book!
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Yes, congratulations, All! It's SO much fun to win something, no matter what it is, much less Dickens in this celebratory year! Puts a boost in your day!
I'm really getting uncomfortable with A Handful of Dust by Evelyn Waugh, which supposedly does mirror the times and issues of Downton Abbey. Instead of finding it hilarious and clever, I can barely force myself to read it (about 1/2 way thru). Is it the different times we lie in or our different understanding of things? How can I not see the humor? (I've found one really funny bit so far).
It's quite poignant and sad, to me, and I really am having a problem reading it due to what I fear is coming in the story of the little son John (same name as my grandson) and his pony. His bit is really well done and much too true to life and I'm afraid for him. I keep thinking of Gone With the Wind and the child was her name Bonnie? And her jumping her pony.
I dislike the main female character, Brenda, immensely, and what she's done to her husband and family, with her own vanity, and the implied disdain for her loyal husband and his big house and the staid boring type of life they did lead in those days, were they all so vacuous and unfeeling? And self centered?
Apparently. If this is the norm then Cora in Downton is quite an exception, very much so. So is THAT a false note or is Handful the false note? The thing is one feels one must keep reading as some kind of object lesson and one really hates to. It's terribly sad, to me, and an indictment of the "upper crust," which I expect it was intended to be in the first place.
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Winston Churchill's American mother, Jenny, was very popular, and Consuelo Vanderbilt was downright beloved by both palace and town when she was married to the Duke of Marlborough.
There are simply heaps of books about each of these women.
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Very interesting, Ginny, to hear your impressions of A Handful of Dust. What a coincidence. I was about to start reading it, after hearing that it is one of Waugh's best. Better than Brideshead. I'll be coming to it from the fog and mud of Dickens' London. Some sadness there too, but mostly horror.
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Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
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April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
COMING
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April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
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April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
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February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
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Wonderful, Jonathan, I will be so glad to hear another opinion. It has made me doubt my own ability to know what's going on in a book. If you're going to start it, I'll finish it today, am half way thru and that will give me the impetus to finish.
PS: David Suchet is quoted in a nice article in the Telegraph on the Death of Poirot and other things:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/3560217/David-Suchet-Poirot.html
and he's in the Sunday Times (London) on the life of his grandfather who once took a photo of Edward VIII and Mrs. Simpson before they were known as a couple: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/Magazine/Interviews/article992622.ece
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Do you think it could be different people - in that today if we look at families in similar financial circumstances their approach to life can be very different - Buffet lives frugally more in common with the Steve Jobs family and yet, both had very different philosophies about life - then compare them to the home and lifestyle of Bill Gates much less going to another group like George Cloony or Brad Pitt or David Beckham - I could not imagine these families living with similar "manners" so that maybe the Waugh read is showing yet another side of life through the eyes of a different family experience.
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Oh, I do like David Suchet. I was looking at his filmography and discovered that I have not seen him in much other that I recognize than Poirot. Do you remember A Perfect Murder with Gwyneth Paltrow and Michael Douglas? He played the police detective. I am very much looking forward to his portrayal of the Duke of York in the new movie, Richard II. I noticed that Patrick Stewart is also in the movie. He plays John of Gaunt. I am unfamiliar with the fellow how is playing Richard II, Ben Whishaw.
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If I had three more addresses, I'd be able to mail all of the Great Expectatins in the morning - at once! :D If you haven't emaled that information to me yet, please do it now - only takes a minute of your time! Thanks!
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Barbara: possibly? Possibly you are correct in I could not imagine these families living with similar "manners" so that maybe the Waugh read is showing yet another side of life through the eyes of a different family experience.
Perhaps. Perhaps what he's showing is a way of life but he'll no longer show it to me. Jonathan, you're on your own carrying the Waugh Dust standard. Last night I threw the book down in disgust. I don't think that is too strong a reaction. There were only two characters I cared about, only two which showed any spark of hope as human beings, and he proceeded to most cruelly destroy both of them in an instant.
I did hesitate this morning before the book hit the trash can, thinking that it could go in one of the boxes for the Library and then I thought let somebody else waste their money pushing this. Never saw, ever, the sardonic wit, and got half way thru the book. There was certainly no wit last night. Or any humanity. Most cruel.
He did not show me fear in a handful of dust but perhaps that's unfair: I did not and will not finish it. He did show me something else tho and perhaps that was his aim all along.
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GINNY, I am happy to see the post I had planned is now unnecessary! You spared yourself
further annoyance and tossed the book. I am well, and happily, past the point where I read something because I feel I ought to. Welcome to the freedom! :)
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:) Babi. I've never had any problem throwing a book across a room or into the trash but I don't do many, maybe I should keep a list of "dumped books." The first one I ever did was The Liar's Club by Mary Karr. I did feel a little strange doing it and guilty, but no more. Life's too short.
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'Welcome to the freedom!'
Well! These strong feelings about a book put me under a compusion to read it. I picked it up for a buck the other day after seeing a reference to it in Fathers and Sons, by Alexander Waugh, grandson of Evelyn. Just a passing reference to 'the bitter denouement to Evelyn's fourth novel and some say his greatest masterpiece, A Handful of Dust.' It seems to suggest that the story came out of a strong personal experience. In association with it is mentioned another short story by Waugh: 'The Man Who Liked Dickens.'
Babi says save yourself further annoyance. I say, retrieve the book from the trash and save it for another day.
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Get this. From A Handful Of Dust, page 209.
'He unwrapped the nearest parcel and handed down a calf-bound book. It was an early American edition of Bleak House.
'You are fond of Dickens?
'Why, yes, of course. More than fond, far more. You see, they are the only books I have ever heard. My father used to read them...and now you. I have heard them all several times by now but I never get tired; there is always more to be learned and noticed, so many characters, so many changes of scene, so many words....Each time I find more to enjoy and admire.
'They took down the first volume of Bleak House and that afternoon Tony had his first reading....He would frequently interrupt with questions....always about the characters: now why does she say that? Does she really mean it? and later at the the description of the sufferings of the outcasts in Tom-all-alone's tears ran down his cheeks into his beard
a book within a book
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Jonathan, read the Library, a note to you in my last post there. Tony was the last straw.
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"Life's too short".
Amen, GINNY.
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I'm chuckling over the "Life's too short" and the "Amen". That would screw up my reading if I were to ask myself, do I have the time. Leave it in the trash, Ginny, you gave it a fair trial. Still, keep in mind, things may look differently on the way down than they did on the way up. I feel I must read it. Just as I'll go back and watch that movie again.
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I hope you will give us your opinion of it, Jonathan. I think I overreacted to it, it just hit too close to home and I was finding the adult characters other than Tony whom I felt sorry for, most unsympathetic. Even now when I read my own post I don't feel quite the same way, but I can't withdraw to that cynical removed critic type of thing, because it just...was too real in the portrayal of the child and too much to lose the only two characters one cared about. I didn't and don't care what the reaction of the others would have been, how their lives would change, I don't care and am vaguely angry at the author, as well. Makes you wonder why you read? I bet if I had read it before John, my own 5 year old grandchild, I would have had a more...what's the word...analytical detached approach?
So I really want to hear your analysis and that of Marcie if she reads it.
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Ginny, I'll take your reaction over those of the detached critics everytime. Perhaps the author wants you to feel the way you do. I will read it. The little I have read seems to show that Waugh was feeling very bitter about the way his life was going and what had been done to him.
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Perhaps depending on the author, I think we sometimes do get very emotiionally involved
with a story, GINNY. There are some books that affect me so negatively, that I feel like
I'm doing myself harm by forcing myself to read them. How's that for reacting/overreacting?
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Babi, you are so right. After my husband's devastating illness & death; I didn't (and still don't) want to read anything that takes me back to that dark place.
Sally
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You and Steph have that in common, SALLY. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other posters
here, too, that have to avoid that particular large pothole in the road. God bless you both.
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bleak and bleaker
I finished reading A Handful of Dust last night. What a discomforting book. It's hard to decide which is the bleaker house: Hetton Abbey or Chesney Wold. Interesting that Waugh should bring Dickens into his story. Almost as if saying, let me tell you about bleak. He certainly makes personal what Dickens leaves abstract and allegorical. Then again, although both set out feeling bored, the pain seems greater for Lady Dedlock than it does for Lady Brenda.
That's two in the trash.
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I appreciate your frank opinion, Jonathan. And I am glad to see I haven't entirely lost my senses. I never got to Brenda's reaction, but let's face it, she's hardly a model of much of anything.
I thought of Dickens, strangely enough. I think he'd have hated it.
We need a trash can icon here on SeniorLearn. It might be interesting to see what people put in it.
Thank you.
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Maybe we could simply think of a symbol to be used with any book we really didn't like. Still
just one's own opinion, of course. But if a reader I've come to know gives a book a :P or a :-[
I can take a hint.
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Just one more week until April 1 and Episode 1 (of 2) of the new adaptation of GREAT EXPECTATIONS!!
There is a short article by Gillian Anderson about why she took on the role of Miss Havisham and her thoughts about the novel at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/2011/12/great-expectations-gillian-anderson.shtml
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Thanks for the reminder, MARCIE. I definitely do not want to miss that.
I read the article, and share with Miss Anderson her discomfort on first reading about Miss
Havisham. I was quite young and could not at all understand a woman who was so pathetic
as to let one incident ruin her life. Then came the time I actually knew a woman like that. I,
and other friends, tried to re-direct her toward the future, but she preferred to go through life
dwelling on the wrong done her.
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If anyone here discusses PBS Masterpiece showings, did you get this in your email today?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/littledorrit_ep1.html
I didn't know where to put it in the PBS folder. Tried each discussion and nothing was dated for 2012 and I know there is one there because I was in there when Downton Abbey was showing. Where should I put this?
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This is the place for the announcement, Annie, since Little Dorrit one of the Masterpiece Classic programs. That's great that Little Dorrit is available for viewing online. The viewing expires April 1 so we have a few days. Thanks for alerting us.
We can access all of the episodes of Little Dorrit at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
The main website for this adaptation of Little Dorrit is at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/littledorrit/index.html
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At the moment I am watching Season 2 of Larkrise to Candleford. I had missed it. Will now have seen them all I think. Did it end on Season 4?
I am going to buy the set.
Been doing research on Family for years. We are original from the Peak District of Derbyshire. Birch Cove being the village. I feel like I am watching my Great Grandparents when watching it. From Pictures their area and the people sound to be lot like the DVDs in my mind. Have them from 1800 to 1885 there. Raised 7 children.
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Yes, it ended with season 4.
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Don't forget that GREAT EXPECTATIONS starts tomorrow, April 1!!
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Good Heavens! I don't believe it!!
BBC America is running the Downton Abbey spoofs, and George is sitting there watching them.
He came across them himself, and is watching them. Absolutely unbelievable.
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I am looking forward to "Great Expectations." I can still remember the strong impression this story made upon me as a teen-ager, and am curious to see what me reaction will be now at a different time in my life. I can understand one person writing she could not understand why Miss Haversham let one incident ruin her whole life, but there are some tragic events in people's lives that cannot help changing the course of their remaining days. Even if you move on, life is never the same. Unfortunately, this character is not able to move on. The dust and cobwebs settling on the event are her way of coping with its impact. Looking forward to the discussion!
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Watched the first half of "Great Expectations" and so glad to find it good. I have a much better
understanding of the escaped prisoner and Miss Havisham, and found a fine character in this
version of Joe Gargary(?). The young Pip is very likeable. I could wish he was not so profoundly
impressed with Miss Havisham, but I suppose that's too much to expect from a young boy, esp.
one with his background.
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I'll admit that, like Pip, I was bewitched by this strange figure. Or was it the atmosphere in that grand old house? Entered with a gasp and left with a shudder. And what an unholy plan she has for the children. Not moving on herself, she plans the ruination of others. Is that the drift?
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horselover, like you, I read Great Expectations through different lens as a teenager. Was more concerned about Pip's future with Estella, than Miss Havisham's mental health as she confines herself to that house in her wedding gown. The scene of the wedding feast, the moldy cake, the rodents on the table, the spider webs covering all it all, stayed in my memory all these years, however. I'm going to go back and read Dickens' description of that again.
Miss Havisham, "not moving on herself" - Jonathan, that's what I am focusing on this time around. How long ago was she left at the altar? Is she still expecting her groom? Why doesn't she clear out the banquet hall and get on with it? Are we do believe that she is out of her mind?
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Horselover and Babi, I too was intrigued by Miss Havisham in this adaptation of Great Expectations. I think Gillian Anderson's portrayal showed a mix of naive hurt and confusion and cold heartedness... definitely mentally ill.
Jonathan, I think that Miss Havisham is grooming Estelle to take revenge on men (with Pip being the first), because her fiance was a "no-show" on her wedding day (and maybe never loved her).
Joan, I too want to re-read Great Expectations. I first read it in junior high and don't recall the details.
In film adaptations of Great Expectations, Miss Havisham has been played by a number of distinguished actresses, including:
* Florence Reed (1934)
* Martita Hunt (1946)
* Margaret Leighton (1974)
* Joan Hickson (1981)
* Jean Simmons (who had previously played Estella in 1946 opposite Hunt) (1989)
* Anne Bancroft (1998) (a version which modernized the story to the twentieth century and changed the names of several characters)
* Charlotte Rampling (1999)
* (Jamie H Scrutton) (2010)
* Gillian Anderson (2011) TV Movie
* Helena Bonham-Carter (Upcoming, 2012)
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I thought that the human bond was very moving that was forged by Pip in his giving a piece of the mutton cake to the prisoner...and then the prisoner risking harsher treatment, to take the blame for stealing the file and the piece of cake, so that Pip would not be blamed. Pip seems to take after his brother-in-law who said that he did not begrudge the prisoner the cake since he was so hungry. His brother-in-law has been a kind "father" to Pip. I felt bad that Pip so easily left his brother-in-law to go to London "to learn to be a gentleman" since Pip thinks that Miss Havisham has him in mind for Estelle.
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My take is that Pip may be his "Father's" [brother-in-law's] son but regardless how the "mother" is depicted as a horror even in real life with a horror parent. the parent does have an influence and I think that without conscious recognition he liked what he saw at the house of Miss Havisham and the influence of his "mother" allows him to imagine he could live better and closer to how Miss Havisham lives. Toward the end of this frist bit it seems to show Pip as having eyes for Stella where as when he was a kid I think he thought she was special but not for him - he enjoyed beating her at cards and only kissed her because he thought that would please Miss Havisham.
His thinking of Stella toward the end I thought said more about how he thought he could have a life like the one he saw in the house of Miss Havisham.
I think this version has Miss Havishamshowing a reaction to life with a number of today's better known Psychological disorders - not necessarily crazy but things like - Post Traumatic Stress, that is life long - some of the avoidance behavior includes; A loss of interest in important, once positive, activities. Feeling distant from others. Experiencing difficulties having positive feelings, such as happiness or love. Having strong feelings of distress when reminded of the traumatic event. Feeling constantly "on guard" or like danger is lurking around every corner.
The symptoms of PTSD are difficult to cope with, and so, many people with PTSD develop unhealthy coping strategies, such as alcohol or drug abuse or deliberate self-harm. Miss Havisham appears to be self-harming herself and like many with PTS they inflict a form of their own trauma on others. Her disorders appear to include:
Dermatillomania (skin-picking); An Impulse-control disorders are those that involve an inability to control impulses, resulting in harm to oneself or others.
Depersonalization Disorder; Persistent or recurrent experiences of feeling detached from, and as if one is an outside observer of, one's mental processes or body (feeling like one is in a dream).
Oppositional Defiant Disorder; Deliberately doing things that will annoy other people, blaming others for his or her own mistakes or misbehavior, being touchy or easily annoyed by others, being angry and resentful, or being spiteful or vindictive. Negativistic and defiant behaviors are expressed by persistent stubbornness, resistance to directions, and unwillingness to compromise, give in, or negotiate.
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Miss Havisham PTSD, D, DD, ODD
Wow, Barb. What a diagnosis. What a price to pay for a broken heart! I have not read the book. I hope she finds her way out of this dire strait. Do the kids help her recovery?
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Jonathan this is the PBS movie and all the signs are there - no actress appears as if rubing raw their hand and then latter picks at the skin of her hand unless there is a message in that action. another bit of acting is how she sets folks, in this story kids to be hurt and hurt each other - and yet another sign she refuses to see family members also she quarrels disagreeing with their help - of course there is a spoiled son, a young jerk so you are led to believe the help is not the kind she wants but still, she is acting out in her part as if she is persistently stubborn, resistant to anyone else's directions, and she is unwillingness to compromise even in her expectations of this adopted daughter.
Yep, she is a mess but I do not think crazy - only traumatized and we are seeing an actress trying to show us the trauma and an author trying to explain the cause and how she reacted to the trauma.
This is the middle of the Victorian period when marriage is far more than about love and devotion but for a women to exist alone, unmarried in a house does not allow her to mix with society with maybe long walks on the moors her only outing. And so this is not just her feelings betrayed as she expected a promised wedding but an identity as a socially acceptable woman cleaved.
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JONATHAN, I got the distinct impression that Miss Havisham was training Estella
to be cruel and heartless to men. Her personal vengeance. She was most disappointed
when young Estella became fond of Pip.
Ah, I see MARCIE is of the same opionion. I, too, was a little disappointed at
Pip being so happy to leave, but after the earlier quashing of the hopes planted
by his sister, I can understand it. Young people are so focused on their dreams for
the future, and here they are resurrected again. Pip has had a glimpse of what a
life of wealth and social status can be like; of course he wants it.
And again I see that BARB has also preceded me. We seem to be in agreement so far.
BARB, that description of Oppositional Defiant Disorder well describes my Aunt's
behavior after her son died in an auto accident.
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I agree with Marcie and Babi. In fact, from the time I first read this book at age 13 in the summer of 1942 in long days at my aunt's country home, where she had a library full of complete editions of various famous authors and I dove into Dickens, until this day, when I have read most of those books at least once more and seen so many film versions, I have believed Miss H's bitterly poisoned heart was set on using that little girl as a weapon to crush and disappoint as many men as possible.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
I wish I had taken up sooner with reading Dickens. What a great humanitarian. Reading him is a great course in sensitization to human problems. My appreciation is helped by all your posts. Barb, you've made it plain to me what a devastating experience that must have been for Miss Havisham those many years ago.
I'm hooked. Trying to read four of his simultaneously. Bleak House. Oliver Twist. Great Expectations. And Our Mutual Friend. Can anyone reccommend a good biography?
Jonathan
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All great books, JONATHAN. Reading them all at the same time might be difficult, tho'. They
might start getting mixed up in your mind. Even reading two or three by different authors, it
may take me a minute to recall, Okay, where am I? Oh, yeah.
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Interesting the actor who plays Matthew Crawley is on the five person panel to choose the Booker in Literature this year.
Here is the run down explaining him and his qualifications.
Dan Stevens is one of Britain's leading young actors. Perhaps best known as Matthew Crawley in the hit ITV drama Downton Abbey, his other television work includes lead roles in Alan Hollinghurst's The Line of Beauty and Andrew Davies's adaptation of Sense & Sensibility. Dan has had leading film roles in American independent Vamps and German-speaking feature Hilde and he is an Executive Producer on Summer in February, a feature adaptation of the Jonathan Smith novel.
Whilst studying English Literature at Cambridge University, Dan became a member of the prestigious Footlights club, and has subsequently gone onto work extensively in theatre. His stage credits to date include Tom Stoppard's Arcadia (Duke of York's), as well as productions for the Peter Hall Company and the National Theatre. He is also a prolific narrator of audiobooks: his reading of Louisa Young's My Dear I Wanted to Tell You won ‘Audiobook of the Year 2011' at the Galaxy National Book Awards, and his recordings of Wolf Hall and War Horse were shortlisted for ‘Audiobook of the Year 2010'.
Dan is Editor-at-Large for the online quarterly The Junket and is a regular guest on the BBC's Review Show. He has also hosted Have I Got News For You and has a column in The Sunday Telegraph.
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Thanks for that info, Barb. It's very interesting that he's a "literary" actor.
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And he's married :( ;D
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And really, really busy! People like this, I am in awe. How do they manage it all?
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What did you all think of the rest of Great Expectations? I got a little impatient with it for some reason. I can't help feeling there was stuff missing that would have added more depth to some of the characters. I won't know until I read the book.
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I did not read yet the book either - but my memory did not have the first part to be as long as the rest of the book - that was how they broke it up for this production - there were parts that I thought were done very well - and his not wanting the money was made more believable than I remembered - I remembered it more of a strong ramrod iron un-compassionate stance. But then my own concept of right and wrong may not have allowed for much gray.
I did not remember that his roomy was the obnoxious boy from the courtyard fight nor that the criminal was Stella's father - all in all I thought they tied together the pieces and it had a 'and-they-lived-happily-ever-after' ending. A much simpler straight forward story line as compared to some of the works by Dickens. Again, I do not remember the story as well as I thought I did and if this production is accurate than it was a straight forward telling of events.
Oh yes, the actor who plays the grown up Pip could pull of compassion much easier than trying to pass himself off justifying over-spending and ne'er do well attitude towards his eduction for a life of luxury.
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Frybabe - I felt the same way. I haven't read Great Expectations for many years, but your're right - there were "big chunks" missing - I guess there had to be given the length of the novel and the allotted time for the adaptation
...Also I don't think Dickens ended his story quite this way. Not sure it was a "straight-forward telling of Dickens' story, Barb - but it was entertaining, I thought. It was just a bit uncomfortable knowing that this was not Dickens' story. I'm going to have to go back and read the book - if we EVER get finished with Bleak House, that is! :D
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It has been a long time since I read "Great Expectations", but I don't remember some of the
events happening as we saw them here. Of course, I don't remember exactly how they did
happen either, so that doesn't mean much.
I found Abel Magwitch do be a much more likable character than I remember. A surprisingly
refreshing honesty and humor in him. He and Joe Gargary actually have quite a bit in common.
I want to believe that he did live long enough to hear Pip tell him his daughter was alive and well.
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Babi - that is, of course, because the wonderful Ray Winstone played him ;D He's played many villains and they've all been adorable in a way....
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Ah, his speciality, I gather. :) I'll try to remember that name next time
I see it.
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I finally got to watch the second episode on the computer. It hasn't shown up on my cable "on demand." I was very satisfied with the production ... maybe because I have forgotten the details in the book. It was quite scary in parts and I was fearing for Pip. I thought his goodness shone through in the end. I do want to read the book, especially to learn more about Estelle.
There is a Q&A with the production designer for Great Expectations at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/roger.html. He shares interesting insights about his view of the program and especially what he was trying to convey in his portrayal of Satis House - Miss Havisham's house.
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The Mystery of Edwin Drood is showing in my area this Sunday.
See info about the program at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html
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I wonder how they will end the story? I found it frustrating to read the book and be left to
imagine my own ending. I had an opinion as to 'who' and 'why', but I'll never know for sure.
If they leave viewers dangling at the end of this film, people are going to be most annoyed.
At the same time, will they agree with whatever answers the writers might come up with?
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It looks like the writer of the Edwin Drood adaptation found difficulties in deciding how to end it too. See the article by her at http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/04/mystery-edwin-drood-dickens-bbc. I didn't notice any spoilers.
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Is anybody watching the Titanic by Julian Fellowes showing last night and tonight on ABC?
Simon Callow (I wrote Cowell again hahaha) was intereviewd last night about his new book on acting and he was marvelous, he's just completed something on Broadway thru the 14th April and his memory for sonnets is prodigious. He said the only way to memorize all that stuff is to put everything else in the world out of your head, so that you can speak as the character and think as the character.
How It's New York: Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM) briefly hosts Simon Callow’s one-man hit show, Being Shakespeare, transferred transatlantic after a long run on London’s West End.
How It's Irish: Callow attended Queens University Belfast, before dropping out to become an actor. And William Shakespeare, a few years before he died, bought a flat in London--in Ireland Yard! “It’s still there” in the Blackfriars area, the audience learns.
The play runs through April 14 only.
I'd have loved to have seen him!
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Ginny - we are watching Titanic here but it's not very good (in our opinion). It's been slated in the papers too.
Rosemary
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I completely forgot to turn the TV over to it. Was watching a older movie with my favourite man in it. Colin Firth. LIttle different. A Ruth Rendell mystery. "Master of the Moor". How I miss my walks on the Yorkshire moors when I watch things like this.
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Babi, you said it all. The Edwin Drood mystery was maddening to read, impossible to tell how Dickens would have ended it had he lived. He didn't even leave suggestions for the upcoming chapters with the illustrator. Nothing. Of course we're all curious to see what the Masterpiece production does with it, but at the same time, I have the suspicion that we won't be happy with it, no matter how well it's done. So, should it have been left on the shelf? Or should Masterpiece present it to us in its infinished state? I think that would be better - rather than have someone else finish it for the master storyteller. But after viewing Great Expectations, I'll bet that won't happen.
I'm still reeling over the changes made in the production of Great Expectations. Whose idea was it to make those changes to write a better story than Dickens' great novel?
By the way, thanks to those of you who sent checks for the postage for shipping Great Expectations to you. I'd been waiting for the last three checks before depositing them, but plan to check tomorrow's mail before depositing those already received. Thanks for your patience.
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JoanP, ou did get the stamps I sent, I hope.
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Yes, I did, Fry. Aready used the three from one side...Thanks! Should have mentioned those. Guess I'll write to the three outstanding so you'll know who you are...
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I'll get it JoanP I will I will I will - I need a list to keep me on track - so many things are piling up - taxes are nearly done but I may after all this work take an extension because I am convinced I'm missing things - plus it looks like my laptop crashed on top of that I lost a tooth - fake - had a root canal a few years ago that was a molar - he said he could only find two canals and molars usually have 3 - well this one must have because there is some pain - used peroxide but no help till his office opens on Monday - his office is closed on Friday and of course this happened Thursday night -
Started to catch up on Bleak House - not there yet - I think I will call back the gal that finishes the work on my taxes and just tell her to do an extension and then I still have a presentation at the City Council meeting on Tuesday - get an appointment with the Dentist and send this computer off to my son-in-law to see if it is really done for and then it is catch up time. It never rains it pours -
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Ouch, Barb! I hope your dentist can fit you in quickly.
I watched about 18minutes of Edwin Drood, then turned it off. I'll have to give it a try again on the rerun, but tonight it just didn't hold my interest. Recognized one of the characters being played by one of the Miss Marple incarnates. Am I right? The only character that I found interesting before turning it off, was Durdle (spelling).
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On the Titanic, I tried Saturday, which is why I asked originally, and I see your opinion is the same, Rosemary, to watch it, but ended up turning it off on Saturday in favor of Chopped (a cooking contest show here) instead. I tried again last night to watch Titanic, what IS it about it, the acting is flat? Just couldn't stick it out. It's like they are in slots: here's the rich woman, here are the doomed lovers. Did it pick up any?
Geraldine McEwan is in Edwin Drood?
Barbara, you've had a rough spring. I am sorry for the tooth, nothing like a toothache, hope he's able to do something with that today.
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I looked her up since I didn't see her in the beginning credits. It is Julia McKenzie I saw, and she plays Mrs. Crisparkle.
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Oh that's right! SHE is the newest Miss Marple, you're absolutely right. I've never seen her work, and didn't care for Geraldine McEwan's, either in that role.. Nobody will ever replace Joan Hickson for me as Miss Marple, nor David Suchet as Poirot or Alistair Sim for that matter as Scrooge. OR Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes. I expect all that dates me. :)
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I watched Edwin Drood and while I wasn't bored, I wasn't captivated either. I liked the character of Rev Crisparkle. Rosa was beautiful and played well by the actress. Helena Landless was played well also. I couldn't get into the other characters.
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Tried watching Edwin Drood. Awful. Turned on the Titanic. Such bad acting and the way it skipped around. Awful. I had seen the 3D movie 3 days before. Not a good Sunday for Television. Went to reading but only last 30 min. Off went the light and went to sleep.
Don't know about today. It stormed all night and the wind is awful today. Could find things to do inside. Just have to get in mood. The early spring spoiled me.
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Anna and I watched the first heat of the Young Musician of the Year competition last night (we recorded it from friday) - it was great (pianists this week) - much better than Titanic, which we have completely given up on. We each chose different 'winners' - and the judges chose someone else, but all 5 were brilliant. As usual, most of the entrants came from Cheethams (v prestigious music school near Manchester) - it's almost an event if one comes from somewhere else! They are all so dedicated and talented.
We had lovely weather today - have just been for a walk up the hill with Madeleine - at the top we could see Fife across the Firth, the sea very blue, Bass Rock white with seabirds. Forecast is terrible for the next few days, so I am now trying to get all the laundry dry before the rain comes on. Not going to complain about rain though, with most of the UK in drought conditions. East Lothian really has a wonderful little climate of its own.
Rosemary
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Rosemary - I always get envious when you write about your walks with your daughter/s. You must live in a truly beautiful place. I watch "Coast" with that lovely wee Scot, and he and his companions take me all over the British Isles so I have to make do with that.
I didn't watch the movie Titanic again. I dislike 3D. However, I did watch a TV show explaining in detail the events that led up to her demise. It was very good. It gave the impression that Titanic was doomed in the first place, being built with B grade iron rivets instead of steel rivets. These just popped like buttons when she hit the iceberg. Other terrible mistakes were made as well, but I am sure that most of you are aware of them.
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I wonder if families were compensated for their loss from the Shipping line? Could be that they had to have taken out a insurance policy themselves. could be that called "Act of God" like lots of other things come under and nothing paid out.
I will not go to see a 3D movie again. Glasses are better but still bother me.
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I, too, was very disappointed with Edwin Drood and turned it off after a short trial. They simply
had to cut too much to fit the time frame. It seemed such a muddle. Oh, well....can't love them
all.
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Masterpece Theater seems to have become enamored by WWI. Birdsong tonight. Maybe it's really an enamorment w/ the period, or the fashions and the English houses of the time, rather than the war itself. Certainly that was a horrible, horrible war. I know, i know all war is horrible, but the years and lives lost fighting back and forth over a hundred miles, getting nothing solved is particularly heinous to me.
Jean
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Thanks, Jean, for the reminder that Birdsong is on tonight (and next week). We can find more info and a preview at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html
It does seem that we don't get a whole lot of information about the War (I or II) during the Masterpiece programs but do get some feeling for the impact of the war on some lives. I'm not sure how much emphasis there will be on WWI in this adaptation. The web site says: "Adapted by Abi Morgan (Iron Lady, The Hour) from the Sebastian Faulks novel, Birdsong tells the story of Stephen's awakening to love and his determination to reclaim it."
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I don't think I will bother to Watch Masterpiece tomorrow night. (Birdsong). Didn't much care for it last week. To much showing of the War 1917. The one showing was where my MOthers 2 brothers killed. My Fathers Brothers killed same war but 1915 Christmas Eve in the Turkey Area. Along with many in WW2 it is no wonder our family names now gone. No men left
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Jeanne, I just watched the first episode of Birdsong on my cable on demand. It does show the horrors of war. I can understand your not wanting to be reminded of the memories of your family.
Eddie Redmayne, the actor who plays the lead role has a very expressive face. The story is told while he is in the trenches during WWI, with flashbacks to his falling in love with a young married woman during a summer when he was 20 years old. So far, the story in the flashbacks seems much like a dream. I'm not sure where the relationship will go.
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I think that the last part is tonight. Only 2 parts. Doubt it does much more than showing the war. Has shown a little of it today and that is what looks like it is going to be.
I am sort of Bug Eyed today. Last night watch 4 more hours of "Mad Men" the number 4 series. That is it now until a number 5 comes out. I have watched all of them in less than 2 weeks. LIke I said. I became addicted to it.
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I have been disappointed with the latest offerings on Sunday night PBS. So went to Netflix and watched a series I've been enjoying about two young detectives.
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Well I know this is not a movie discussion but I watched the two movies about the Brodericks, starring Meredith Baxter as Elizabeth (Betty) Broderick. The DVD has film of the actual trial in it, very short but you can see what she was like. She killed her husband who had left her for a young woman.
And the young woman. Both as they slept.
Oprah did a show on her, one of the 10 top watched TV shows of Oprah's career, because a lot of women felt sorry for her.
I bring this up because she was eligible for parole in 2011 but in her hearing in 2010 she was denied parole because she has not changed one bit in any way from her original position that he "made her do it," and her feeling he was at fault. She was 62 in 2010. That leaves her 15 more years to serve. So in 2025 if I can add, when she's 77 she can be released.
There were 4 children. I feel sorry for them, I don't know what happened to any of them.
But in more PBS germane thoughts apparently Upstairs Downstairs, the remake, has been cancelled. Viewers apparently did not enjoy the second installment so the only contender now in the field is Downton Abbey.
I wish they had not aired at about the same time, I don't think that did U/D any good.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiececlassic.jpg)
Masterpiece Classic 2012 brings back favorite authors and introduces new authors and programs. See the complete 2012 MASTERPIECE CLASSIC schedule (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html).
NOW DISCUSSING
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/birdsong.jpg)
April 22 & 29, 2012 at 9pm
Birdsong (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/birdsong/index.html)
An adaptation of Sebastian Faulk's novel about lovers torn apart by World War I. Eddie Redmayne (The Pillars of the Earth) plays Stephen Wrayford, whose pre-war affair with Isabelle Azaire (Clemence Poesy, Harry Potter films) has an enduring effect on him as he fights in the trenches.
ALREADY DISCUSSED
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/edwindrood.jpg)
April 15, 2012
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/drood/index.html)
An adaptation and completion of Charles Dickens' last novel left unfinished at the halfway mark at his death, The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a psychological thriller about a provincial choirmaster's obsession with 17-year-old Rosa Bud and the lengths he will go to to attain her. Cast includes Matthew Rhys (Brothers & Sisters) and Julia MacKenzie (Miss Marple).
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/greatexpectations.jpg)
April 1 & 8, 2012
Great Expectations (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/greatexpectations/index.html)
Widely considered one of the greatest novels by Charles Dickens, Great Expectations tells the story of Pip the battered orphan boy, who rises from blacksmith's apprentice to gentleman under the patronage of a mysterious benefactor, who assures him of "great expectations." Starring Gillian Anderson, David Suchet and Ray Winstone.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/curiosityshop.jpg)
February 26, 2012
One 90-minute episode
The Old Curiosity Shop (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/curiosityshop/index.html)
A teenage girl and her grandfather lose everything to a maniacal moneylender and flee his relentless pursuit. Derek Jacobi (I, Claudius) stars as Grandfather, with Sophie Vavasseur (Northanger Abbey) as Nell and Toby Jones (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy) as Quilp.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2012/downtonabbey2.jpg)
January 8 to February 19, 2012
Downton Abbey Season 2
Downton Abbey season 2 resumes the story of aristocrats and servants in the tumultuous World War I era. The international hit is written by Julian Fellowes and stars Maggie Smith, Elizabeth McGovern, and Hugh Bonneville, plus a drawing room full of new actors, portraying the loves, feuds, and sacrifices of a glittering culture thrown into crisis. Watch all episodes online through March 6 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch/index.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/classic_2011/downtonabbey.jpg)
The Primetime Emmy Award® winning Downton Abbey (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/downtonabbey/season1.html) season one returns December 18 & 25, 2011 and January 1, 2012. (Check local listings.)
That's true - but the new Upstairs Downstairs was terribly confusing, I thought.
Rosemary
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We can finish talking about Masterpiece Classic here in this discussion. (I will view the last episode of BirdSong this week. I was watching THE KILLING on AMC on sunday :-) )
A reminder that the 2012 Masterpiece Mystery season starts this Sunday, with three new Sherlock Holmes episodes. There is a preview of the rest of the exciting season in our new PBS Mystery discussion at http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3233.0
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I'm delighted to hear there will be more of that new Sherlock Holmes series, MARCIE.
Thanks for the alert. I wouldn't want to miss that.
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Hey! Hey! Hey!
If you are able to stay up late enough tonight, DO catch Charlie Rose on Public Television if he is carried where you are. He is on at eleven P.M. on both of our PBS channels: Washington DC and Baltimore.
His first guest is Dame Judi Dench talking about her movie coming out this month: The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. It is a comedy with Maggie Smith and many others of our favorite British older actors. I can hardly wait!
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I just bought that book today and so far can't put it down.
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Ginny, the book by Deborah Moggach originally was called These Foolish Things. Since they gave the movie made from THESE FOOLISH THINGS a different name, they have reissued the book with the same title as the movie. Which one are you reading? Which title, that is; I realize it is the identical novel.
http://www.deborahmoggach.com/pages/books/foolish_things.htm
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I finished watching Birdsong. I'm glad I did although the depiction of WWI was horrific. Our protagonist knows that his troops are being sent to a bloodbath but the officer in charge (played by Anthony Andrews of the 1981 Brideshead Revisited) says not to fear, they will be victorious.
There is a surprise at the end for our protagonist in his personal life.
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I stayed up to watch Charlie at 11pm but did not have Judi Dench on. It was all talk about the Blind man in China and what was happening. Don't know why we keep getting involved in other countries matters. They don't seem to ever interfere in ours.
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thats an easy one Jeanne - we have more gifts - more know how - more wealth - more creative talent - more opportunity for the average person and so, with 'more' is responsibility - lots of examples in the Bible as a guide and the statue of Liberty has the motto that encapsulates who we are as a people - Plus, assisting others is not only a humanitarian act it is to our benefit so that we can operate in a world with some level of human dignity and safety. Asking why us is like asking why we have been blessed with these gifts compared to others...
I did see part of the Judi Dench - she is as candid and lovely as ever - I kept looking for a hesitancy on her part and noted none since I read she has big issues with her sight. Interesting she gives her performance in Mr. Brown as the turning point of her career. After that movie that was planned as a TV series and was changed into a movie she had tons of offers. She spoke of the Marigold movie this summer but another coming out in October that is her movie without all these great headliners that appear in Marigold. She and Charley spoke about how age is a none issue made into an issue by society and how both of them cannot imagine life without their work that they both love.
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Well said, BARB. :)
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MaryPage, I'm reading the one with Marigold Hotel in it, the edition has Judi Dench on the cover.
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Barb.
What you say above has some truth to it. But, Lets look at our country now. Not what it was 20 years ago. We need to take a good look at what is happening to some people here. Many of us are doing O.K. Many are now. We can't take in everybody who has a problem in their own country. We take in people who need medical and spend millions on operation done one them. Yet. we have people dying here at a young age because they can't afford medical attention. We help other countries with their poor. Think they all should be getting free Medication. People here can't get it.
We want to build in Afgan. School, homes. hospitals. Yet right now 2 of our nursing homes are closing here because the state cannot pay them what owed.
Only thing I push for on helping poor countries is the Teaching of Birth Control. Best place to start
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Jeanne all I know is the world is no different than a microcosm of a classroom - when I was a kid and you finished the work before the others you were expected to help those in the class who were struggling - we were made aware we had gifts that they did not have although, they may have gifts that were a benefit to the class and often it was skills using their hands - at any rate as we grew older and were in the 7th and 8th grade it got to be fun to those of us who did finish quickly to see who could finish up first to help the others and we even realized some of us were better able to help certain students more than others - and so to me that is how I see my community and the world - we all have gifts and we are responsible to know them, use them and share them.
I look at our complaints in life and realize how minuscule they are - can you just imagine having to make a choice to leave behind on the side of the road one of your helpless children in order to save the other - just wrap your head around that if you can - how do you go on in life with that memory - can you imagine living where the resources are so slim or rather how to sell the resources that families have to put their young teenage daughters on a bus for a big city to fend for herself - can you imagine trying to protest the treatment of your community and in your efforts you are known by the government who does not listen although, the leaders are wealthy and if you protest they will kill your immediate family - I do not care how hard it is for us - and yes, it is unfair how the money in this nations was handled by private individuals - but if we, as a collective community cannot help others than life has no meaning - things happen and as a Christian I really believe in that guidance that influenced me to help - sure I can complain at how even the church's politics is a sham and detrimental to the community -
Where I cannot right the wrongs I can support and help - sorry. no offense but to me complaining about helping is like being a kid who wants for themselves - you know the kind - in the grocery they sat on the floor to influence their mom to buy them what they wanted. Sure life is tough - but as the song goes we were never promised a Rose Garden and to take our complaints out by being less caring in favor of taking care of ourselves we would never have gotten out of the Depression when everyone helped out each other and while still reeling we geared up and went to war which was the unifying force that got us over the hump onto bigger and greater things.
I guess if we look at what we lack we only attract more lack because it reminds us of all the things in our life that are missing - where as, if we do the best we can with what we have and share what we have we will all be sharing with each other. Thank god all those we have elected to represent us have not lost their moral compass and are still concerned with this nation showing the compassion and best of ourselves that we believe is our hallmark.
I guess I still remember the boat load of Jews we did not accept before this nation was officially a part of WWII - that shame hangs heavy - I can live with less easier than I can live with shame.
OK Jeanne - peace be with you - I do go on - but oh I have a strong feeling of not wanting to eliminate compassion and willingness to share from our national identity and hope we can continue to bring not only compassion but the example of sharing that we all learned as young children when we played with toys - yes, the division of wealth is not fair just as kids some had toys and some of us made toys out of weeds and mud and old toys that we made playthings out of - but we still played house and store and school and rode down the hill and shared our fun and home made toys with everyone including the kids who had swings in their backyard and store bought skates. The feeling of joy that is part of sharing was more important than comparing how little or much we had.
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As we age we all look back at the past often. But world has changed. Some for the good. Lots not so good. We have to realize that also. America can no longer think that they can take care of the worlds problems when they can no longer take care of their own. The Statue of Liberty has now served its purpose. Need to close it arms. We can send people out to other countries to teach and help. We cannot tell them what to do or give them funds in order for them to just carry on what they are doing.
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Jeanne I sure hope my great grandchildren will have the same experience of helping that my children and my grandchildren had as I had in school and I sure do not want to see the Statue of Liberty altered with arms folded - oh how painful - we cannot take care of everyone and it is easy to think that taking care of someone is proselytizing however, most of the time we want to teach how to fish along with supplying some immediate fish.
It is easy to find fault with how we help but to stop helping because we have some needs I cannot imagine being that closed off from others - I could just imagine the world press if we shut down - that is thinking there is a certain amount of love in our heart and a limited amount of mental, physical and earthly resources to develop - yes, too many can be a feeding frenzy but we must and can honor what we have, and share what we have and through sharing the world will be a place we want to live -
Very practical - bottom line - look at the budget and see the small percentage of resources we use to help and support other nations as compared to other items - it isn't even 10% and we know to Tithe our family income at least 10% to those who support us. Taking from those in need never helped those who did the taking - as the saying goes some folks are rich from having money - lets hope the majority still know and build on the riches of character, integrity, compassion, love and sharing.
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Join us in Masterpiece Mystery at http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3233.0
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Just a note that there is a really nice article in yesterday's USA Today on Penelope Wison (Matthew's mother in Downton Abbey) talking about the Marigold movie which she is in, and the character she plays. I put this in the Library on it:
It's a really good article. She plays the killjoy of the group and says something interesting in the interview: "She is a disappointed woman...It would be unrealistic if everyone fell in love with India. People think that going somewhere new is going to change them, forgetting that they take themselves along."
I think that's quite interesting.
She goes on in the article which I am sure is online, it's called Marigold has Penelope Wilton in full flower... and she talks about some of the new Downton which is now filming, including Shirley MacLaine, the actress and her part.