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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery!)
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
We can send you a set of three of Agatha Christie's novels just for the cost of the postage as the supply lasts. Thank you, for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 9 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. View the episode online through July 19 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy (the book is sometimes called EASY TO KILL)
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. View the episode online through July 26 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors (the book is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS)
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. View the episode online through August 2 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans? (the book is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE)
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. View the episode online through August 9 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. |
Contact: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
Babi: JoanP, I do trust you're going on that outing with a full complement of parents
to tend the seven grandchildren. I mean, you've never struck me as suicidal. ::)
I'm beginning to suspect "Why Didn't They Ask Evans?" may be difficult to find.
I'll be searching, but for those who can't lay hands on one, there is always the
film to discuss. |
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Babi, : I'm beginning to suspect "Why Didn't They Ask Evans?" may be difficult to find.
I'll be searching, but for those who can't lay hands on one, there is always the
film to discuss.
Babi, :
I looked up Why Didn't They Ask Evans (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Why-Didnt-They-Ask-Evans/Agatha-Christie/e/9780312981594) on Amazon and B&N - both sell the paperback. My library here in Arlington does not have the book, but does carry the audio version (abridged).
Yes, let's discuss the film when we don't have the book. Ginny, does your "complete set" carry this title?
Mippy - generous of you to take the time to pass on your Mankells to Frances. Thank you!
I just noticed in one of Marcie's posts that "Why Didn't They Ask Evans"- the last film in the series used to be titled, The Boomerang Clue. So I just checked with my library's on-line catalog - and see that they have it! Regular and Large Print!!! Did you hear that, Babi!
Thanks for the clue, Marcie!
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JoanP: I misunderstood something you said. I've put in the mail a check for $10 to cover both the Mankell books and the Christies. i misread your note on the cost and thought it was $9, hence the odd note about "extra money".
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Clever of you to find the Christies. they are tricky, since they are often issued with a different title.
Any question you have about mysteries, Sci-Fi, or Romance novels, I go to Fantastic Fiction. Here is their home:
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/ (http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/)
And here is Christie:
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/c/agatha-christie/ (http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/c/agatha-christie/)
I use the site to find out whether and when my favorite mystery authors have a new book coming out, and whether I've missed an old one.
Not much on biography, but a complete list of her books with alternate titles. They list 120 books. WOW! That includes the alternate titles I assume.
But to find Evans, you have to remember that it's not a Miss Marple, but a stand-alone, listed later.
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You will have a wonderful time, Joan!
Precious memories!
That's a good question as to what was AC's last book. I don't really know. I know she wrote two books, one about Miss Marple, and one about Poirot to be released after her death, so I guess possibly one of them might be her last book? I really don't know. I think she released one of them before she died. Then there's her other autobiography, I don't know. What a good question!
I do have Why Didn't They Ask Evans?
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This purports to be a bibliography of her detective and mystery books ONLY by year, if it's accurate:
http://www.detective-fiction.com/agatha-christie-bibliography.htm
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I love the heading here, and the links have been so helpful. I found Pocket Full of Rye on my bookshelf -- that'll be good on the airplane this week. Library has two more titles, and JoanR and I are going to prowl the Strand (18 miles of books) Bookstore week after next, so am searching their catalog now. These PBS performances have apparently been put on DVD already as the Strand has one set of the Marple (4 discs) left -- on sale at 29.99. I almost emailed them and asked if they could hold it for me, with payment, of course. But don't know if they have captions. They were out of the Poirots. Amazon also has them, but say they won't be released until August -- which makes sense from a PBS standpoint.
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I did, JOAN, and my library does have 'The Boomerang Clue' listed. Yay! Now all I have
to do is find a copy of 'Cat Among the Pigeons'. Hopefully, the nearby used book store
will have one. I'll be checking that out this morning.
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Discussion Host: Regarding the PBS Mystery Series of six episodes of Ms Marple starting June 21 : I look forward to participating in your group discussions after viewing each TV episode .
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WELCOME, RETIRED!!
Are you a Christie fan, or new to Christie?
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Hi there, Retired! We're glad you plan to join us. Welcome!
I just came in to tell you about a strange experience. I have been reading the first book - "Cat Among Pigeons" - it is such a page turner - after all those years since it was written. .I have an idea of whodunit - but am so often wrong, that I can't be sure. I've read about 200 pages - and caught myself wondering whether I ought not read the denouement, thinking I'd ruin the TV experience!
How crazy is that? The film is based on Agatha Christie's BOOK - and I'm sitting here with book in hand, wondering if I should even finish it. Of course I will!!! I kick myself for even hesitating!
JoanK, yours should be arriving tomorrow. I'll warn you - you can't put it down. You can read it in a day or two
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Glad to have you with us, RETIRED. It's always fun to have new views and viewpoints in our discussions.
JoanP, I've actually been thinking about how we should approach this discussion. It's only five days until the first presentation. Ordinarily, I might suggest we read and discuss the book, then watch the film, compare and discuss. However, several people who are interested in seeing the film series will not have all the books. (I did find "Cat Among the Pigeons", by the way. Finished reading in a short while ago.)
The point is, those who may not have the books would not be able to participate in that part of the discussion, and reading our posts on the book might spoil the movie for them.
Would it work, do you think, to read the book, wait until we've seen the film,
then discuss both? It will mean we'll be reading the next book while discussing the prior book and film, of course. What do you think, gang? Can we handle that? FEEDBACK, PLEASE, ASAP.
I had forgotten how good, and how full of red herrings, this story is. Do you
think they will be able to carry over into the film some of the sarcastic humor that falls outside the dialogue?
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It is tricky, discussing a book - AND a film, especially when we're talking about a mystery. What we don't want to do is give away the plot before most have either read the book or seen the PBS Masterpiece show.
With the Wallander series we waited until folks came in on the Monday after the Masterpiece episode aired. Since a number of you indicated that you had missed it, or taped it and hadn't viewed it yet, we talked around the plot, without giving anything away. I think it worked just fine - how about the rest of you? Maybe you have some other suggestions to answer Babi's question?
Babi, I agree, Cat Among Pigeons (1959) is so well written, it withstands the passage of time. (Actually, 1959 wasn't all that long ago, was it? ;D) I hope "the sarcastic humor that falls outside the dialogue" has been translated into the film - although that might be difficult.
I just came across this Christie site - it is really well put together...
Dew's Agaatha Chrisite Mystery Site (http://www.angelfire.com/journal/mysteryfan/)
ps. We still have two sets of the books left, among them, Cat Among Pigeons...
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That was my concern, JoanP,...not to give away the plot for those who may
not have the book. I'm open to other suggestions, but so far it appears it would be best to begin the discussion of both book and film after viewing the film.
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Good morning ~ just marking this site. Looks interesting!
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JoanP: I got the books today! Amazingly fast, and they're beautiful.
Of course I've already read "Cat". I've read all the Christies, some of therm three or four times! I'm one who rereads mysteries --- if I wait long enough, I've forgotten who did it, and can be surprised all over again. If I wait noT quite so long, I've forgotten who did it, but halfway though, I "brilliantly" deduce the solution. ;)
Hi, MIPPY.
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Joan P
I just checked my mail and did not receive my set of Agatha Christie books. I did send you my name and address by email on June 10.
Did you send a set to me?
I'll email you again with my name and address, just in case. I do want a set.
Thanks,
Evelyn
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hahaha, JoanK, you are just like me. I told Bruce that I need never buy another book - that I could keep on reading the ones we already have over and over - because, like you, I forget them - and am always pleasantly surprised to learn the outcome. Funny how you cleverly "deduce" what happens as you approach the ending.
Evelyn, yes I did, I shipped your books on Monday morning. It's only Wednesday! They say two - three days for Priority. I know you are anxious to get started - but honestly, you can read :D in a few days - easliy.
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Thanks, JoanP. I just wasn't sure if you got my email. I have been out of it for about a week and am just catching up. So I thought I missed something.
Funnily enough, I just finished listening to "Cat Among the Pigeons" last month narrated by David Suchet. So know the story line, but when I listen to an audio book, I don't retain it. It just literally goes in one ear and out the other. Nothing like curling up with a good book. And once I start, I just don't put it down.
I am looking forward to watching "Cat Among the Pigeons" and seeing their rendition.
It is already 95 degrees in the afternoons here in Arkansas. So, there is no sitting under a shady tree with some iced tea anymore. It's the air conditioned house. We will probably have this and hotter from now until the middle of September.
Evelyn
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Only three more days until the advent of the Christie series. I'm really looking
forward to seeing what they've done with "Cat Among the Pigeons". You realize, of course, that in the book you're at least 2/3 of the through before Poirot ever comes into it.
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JoanP ~ Are there any Christie books left? If so, I'd like a set. (mippy@aol.com) Thanks!
Hi, JoanK, amica mea!
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Thank you for the Welcome Joan.
Unfortunately, I have Not read any of Agatha Christie's Novels.
However, I have seen a number of the films produced from her novels .
Also, previous Ms. Marples series on PBS Mystery series.
This series will probably stimulate an interest in readig some of heer novels.
I do read Mystery novels frequently.
Please say Hello to Ginny for me .
In the past I joined a number of her current book discussions using my other URL.
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Thanks for the email, JoanP, to which I replied, and I'll enjoy reading the books. I've read many others of Agatha Christie but not these!
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RETIRED: if it does, you'll have enough reading material to last awhile. If you'd like, come join us at the Mystery Corner and tell us what authors you like.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=82.new#new (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=82.new#new)
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You might find something of interest here - to get in the mood in case you aren't reading Cat Among the Pigeons - there's even a clip from the film - and other special features:
Masterpiece Mystery ~ Hercule Poirot - Series IX (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/series9.html)
Retired, of course we'll pass yourgreeting on to Ginny, but it would help if you could provide a clue to your previous identity - the name you used in the old days on Seniornet. I wonder how many "retired" participants we have in our midst. ;)
ps You're very welcome, Mippy. I hope you get the books in due time.
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I hope you do read some of the Christie mysteries now, RETIRED. There
are some thoughts that just can't easily be transferred to visual. Since you
enjoyed the movies you've seen, I'm sure you would enjoy the books.
My own personal favorites are the Miss Marple stories, but other readers
are Poirot fans.
Thanks for that link, JoanP. I had seen that before while browsing for
info. It is an excellent intro./ad for the series.
There are a couple of points we might want to watch for when we see the
movie.
*The book includes cues from a number of letters from the students to their parents. How does the film deal with that?
*Mrs. Bulstrode, the headmistress/owner of Meadowbanks, believes in
discipline without regimentation. How does that work in practice, do you
think?
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Since my PBS station is now on the right tract with the Christie series I'll be here with bells on. My favorite Miss Marple has joined Agatha in that other realm so I'll have to cope.
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One of my stations has Foyle's War tonight (the other two are fund-raising). Foyle's War wasn't broadcast here when you-all were talking about it, so if it's a new one, I haven't seen it. I like that series a lot.
Jackie: I love your Sandburg quote.
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I'm hoping we will all love the new 'Miss Marple', JACKIE. I'm practically tapping my toes with impatience to see the new films. Tomorrow night!!
Oh, good, JoanK. I still check into the old 'MASH' re-runs in case I find
one I haven't seen. Or at least, haven't seen since they first came up umpteen
years ago. They were/are so good.
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We are addicted to The West Wing. Over and over we can watch it. in 1994 i bought a tshirt with Bartlett for Predident across the chest.
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Well, I got Foyles War last night instead of Christie. I'm afraid none of the local stations are going to broadcast it. Boo, hoo.
And the Foyles War was a repeat! (although a very good one.)
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JoanK - I think the Christie - Cat Among Pigeons is scheduled to air on Sunday pm...If If understand you correctly, I don't think you missed it!
We are off to Disney in the morning. I am really going to try to see this first Christie episode. The key word is "TRY" with 7 little grandchildren all keyed up after first day in the park.
Am finally packed. Wish me luck - please, I'll really need it. It was 98 degrees in Orlando last evening!
We'll be back next Sat. pm - so I'm set for episode 2 - Mrs. McGinty is Dead. Just finished reading that one yesterday too. Frybabe, I think it was you who said you enjoyed reading Miss Marple better than the Poirot, but preferred watching Poirot in film. After reading the first two Poirot, I can understand that. Agatha C. seems to do a better job writing her female characters - in my opinion. I absolutely loved the headmistress, Miss Bulstrode in Cat/Pigeons. As Babi pointed out, Hercule Poirot doesn't get involved until the later chapters in the book. I thought it was a bit late to warm up to him. I can't wait to hear what you think. I am really looking forward to David Suchet's portrayal of Poirot!
Babi - I wondered at Mrs. Bulstrode's viewpoint on education - don't you think she was responding to the methods of her day?
Here's one thing I'll be looking for in tomorrow night's show....
M. Poirot exclaims when he's perplexed or frustrated - on two occasions in this book and once in Mrs. McGinty -
"Nom d'un nom d'un nom..." Literally, "name of a nom of a name." It must be an idiom - I'm curious if the phrase will be included in the film...
See you next week! Enjoy the show!
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Joan P.
I received my Christie books yesterday. Thank you. My check for the postage is in the mail.
Enjoy Disney!
Evelyn
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JoanP, I think Mrs. Bulstrode was something of a leader in her day. She seems to have
made a number of departures from engrained tradition in her school.
I was annoyed to find that though my library's on-line catalog listed "Mrs.
McGinty's Dead", the in-house catalog the copy was no longer available. Now I've
got to scrounge some more. I did learn that it was also once entitled "Saw Death
Coming". I can look for it under both titles.
JoanK, I hope you didn't miss JoanP's note that the series starts TONIGHT!
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We're getting a re-run of Foyle's War on Saturday nights - who wouldn't watch that again!
And then for Sunday nights entertainment -a 6 week run of Miss Marple on with Julia McKenzie in the title role. Of course we won't see the episodes you will - tonight's one was A Pocket Full of Rye - she's good.
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Yup, JOANP and BABI. Senior moment, there. I talked about it so much, I pursuaded myself that Friday was Sunday. Oh, well, that means I caught the Foyles War which was well worth watching a second time.
And today IS Sunday (isn't it?)
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I will be watching PBS Masterpiece tonight, but can you believe, they are having a fund raiser ???
That means the show will be interrupted. I can't believe it. Oh, well. That's how they pay for these shows.
My husband's computer monitor went out yesterday evening, so until he replaces his, we are sharing my monitor. As he is on the computer almost 24/7, my computer time will be somewhat limited, but I am planning to take part in the discussion.
Evelyn
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Oh, Evelyn, hurry on down to Best Buy or Costco or where ever ASAP to buy Hubby's new monitor! They always have sales on at BB and CXostoc has good prices, too.
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I am really looking forward to tonight's film presentation of Christie's Cat Among the Pigeons. I love Agatha Christie. I have read most of her books , many of them more than once. When I was studying French I would buy her books translated into French and read them. I loved doing that.
This one tonight is going to be a real treat for me. I have not reread it but I will soon. I have been having a hard time finding a book to read that I thought was really good but I know this one will be. I just discovered that there is a Kindle edition of the book and I will be downloading it immediately to read it. I can hardly wait!!
Well I don't have to wait. It is now on my Kindle and I have started reading it!!
Joan Grimes
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I just finished reading it. Now I'll dee if reading it first adds or detracts from my enjoyment. Therre are a lot of characters, so it's good to have them straight in my mind.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery!)
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
We can send you a set of three of Agatha Christie's novels just for the cost of the postage as the supply lasts. Thank you, for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans?
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. |
Contact: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
I watched the production and enjoyed it thoroughly. Now I will continue reading the book and compare it to the TV production.
Joan Grimes |
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I am anxious to watch "Cat Among the Pigeons." It starts here on the west coast in 10 minutes! I didn't read the book first so I'll see what the experience is like of seeing the episode and then reading the book.
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Amazing! I stayed awake to watch all but about the last 5 min of "Cat among ..."
David Suchet is wonderful! What did everyone think about the tempo of the film?
Now a treat today: reading the book! Thanks, JoanP, for sending the books so quickly!
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Oh, my! Did they ever make changes in the plot for this movie. Completely
rewrote the opening to excuse bringing in Poirot at the beginning of the story.
Some nonsense about Poirot 'advising' Miss Bulstrode in the choice of her
successor. From the book, I cannot imagine Miss Bulstrode needing anyone's
advice in such a matter.
They also changed, and shortened, the story about Bob Rawlinson, the Prince,
and their deaths at the time of the revolution. And changed some of the characters. Dropped Miss VanSittert entirely. Changed the matron into a more
belligerent personality who occasionally 'nipped' from a flask.
??? For those of you who read the book, what other character changes did you see?
??? Did you find it plausible that the female cousin was now 'heir' to the throne of Ramat, rather than the Uncle? I would have thought an uncle was much closer in a royal line-up.
What did you like, or dislike in this production?
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I saw a bit of this, it was on quite late here, so could not see it all, but stayed for the last 25 minutes to see who the cook? was. I have seen her before.
I was surprised to see David Suchet has aged (duh!) and I thought this time his performance was harsh. Since I did not see the beginning I don't know if that were warranted by the circumstances, did he start out his old self, but it seemed not to have the same something the earlier ones did. I'll watch it entirely on its next go round to be better informed.
But who played the cook? (I assume that's who that was). I have seen her before, but can't recall where!
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Here is an interview with David Suchet!
In an exclusive interview, Suchet reflects on more than 20 years portraying the Belgian super sleuth:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/suchet.html
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Babi ~ I do agree that the beginning was a huge departure from the book! But film makers always take a lot of liberty with the material, don't you think?
Ginny ~ This is confusing. What cook? I thought the woman in the uniform was the nurse? Were we watching the same program? ???
Of course David Suchet has aged, but they also put a padded suit on him. I've seen photos of him in the NY Times, when he was in a play somewhere in the last few years, and he looked great in regular slacks, not old and waddling at all. He sure is a great actor.
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What was her name, Mippy? When you come in at the end and very few are being identified, it's hard to tell who is who? I went to IMDb and was astounded at the credits: it took a LOT of people to make that thing, go look if you like.
What was the nurse's name? I want to see where else I have seen her. I guess I need to read the book!
(I also thought he looked padded).
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There was an unusual amount of commotion here last night; no reason, just one of those things. I quixckly lost the thread of the story so have scheduled it for recording Tuesday at 3 AM. Will comment then.
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Well, I read the book before the film and I'm glad I did or I wouldn't have had a clue what was going on. They sure departed from the book. Was it the editing or just the writing, but once again, they seemed to jump from scene to scene. I thought the book was much, much better. --- The photography was good and I love those fashions and heavy makeup and the hairdos. It sure set the time and the tone.
That scene by the tree and river when Adam happened upon Miss Shapland when she was eating and reading was gorgeous.
David Suchet did look padded and waddled about like a penguin. I agree, he seemed harsh. Do you think he was bored playing Poirot again? I'm going to go back to Ginny's post and look at the interview with David Suchet. He is such a good actor.
And then once again I have to sign off for today. My husband ordered his new monitor and it will be delivered hopefully Thursday and then again hopefully, I won't have to share my monitor any more. ;)
Evelyn
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I was both glad and sorry I read the book first. I'm not sure I could have followed the story or kept the characters straight if I hadn't: as it was, I kept saying to myself "now who is that? oh, yes." But I didn't get much injoyment out of the movie, it was more like checking off lists "Oh, yes, now they're doing that scene). Next time, I won't reread first.
I liked the two of the changes they made. Introducing Poirot from the beginning simplefied things, and gave you a chance to see him. And combining two characters (Van Sittart and Chadwick) was also good: there are too many characters in the book, and combining two simplefied things a lot. They gave one of the minor characters (Miss Blake) more plot, to make more suspects, and I think eliminated another one. I thought that was well thought out.
But I couldn't get into any of the characters. They were just THERE like marionettes, moving through their paces. Even Miss Bulstode, Julia, and Miss Rich, the characters withspark in the book, somehow didn't in the movie.
Were those of you who hadn't read the book able to follow the plot?
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I followed the plot all right. I enjoyed the movie. I love seeing the fashions of that time. The clothes are gorgeous.
I am really enjoying the book. It is really good. I think I will probably not read the book before I watch the next one either.
Joan Grimes
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I read this book awhile ago, but I really enjoyed the TV version last night. I poured myself a glass of wine and sat and watched the whole thing. Although I knew much of what was going to happen, that didn't seem to detract from the story or the production at all. My son watched a bit of it and was distracted by the way some of it was filmed.
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I would rather treat the book and movie as different entities, just for the sake
of convenience.
I think that the cook/nurse was played by Carol Macready, who was in the production
of Gaudy Night, by Dorothy Sayers. She played the Dean of Shrewsbury College.
and Harriet Walter played Harriet Vane, a graduate of the school where they were
having problems with anonymous letters, etc. Harriet Walter was Ms Bulstrode.
I really liked her portrayal, and her makeup and wardrobe. The whole production was
very 30s and delicious.
I think we are off on another adventure with more Agathas and Hercules in store - I
cannot wait!!!!
isak
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I must say it sure was different without Ms. Lemon or Captain Hastings and Inspector Japp. It seems more serious and more "meaty" than those earlier productions. It was very enjoyable. It will be wonderful to compare the book and movie. BTW, don't forget that if you missed the movie you can still catch in on the PBS Mysteries website. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/catamongpigeons.html
Once again, I am behind in my reading. I had intended to start on the book this weekend, but then life intervened. Sigh!
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I thought the 'denouement' scene was unnecessarily harsh, GINNY. In identifying those who had motives to kill Ms. Springer, I did not see the need for 'Miss Blake' to reveal what Springer had done to her. It was painful, and she was innocent of the murders as Poirot knew perfectly well.
Thanks for the link to the Suchet interview. I could not get the interview topics to
come up, but did read the question on the opening page. Maybe Poirot's stiffness was due to the discomforts of old age. We know about that!
The woman in uniform was the 'matron'. She got them settled in, nursed them when they were ill...a sort of institutional nanny.
But the 'padding' was a surprise to me, MIPPY. I guess I just assumed that Suchet was a plump guy, too. Silly of me; I just never thought about it.
They did trim the story a good bit, EVELYN, probably to make it fit into a 90-minute format. As for the scenery, I always love the scenic background in any English film. I'm sure there must be unlovely areas in Britain as elsewhere, but you don't see them in the films unless they're doing a 'gritty' story.
Julia was one of my favorite characters, JOAN. I was disappointed in the choice
of actress for the part and felt her personality as shown in the book did not come
through at all in the movie. They cut what I felt was one of the best parts of the
book;ie., her discovery of the jewels and traveling to London to find Poirot.
Sometimes a movie is more enjoyable, JOANG, if one doesn't come to it with prior
expectations. Perhaps we found the sequence a bit confusing precisely because it
wasn't what we were expcting. And of course, the trimming to fit the time-span
made it a bit choppy at times.
Oh, goody! Thanks, ISAK, for identifying Carol Macready for us. Harriet Walker was
good, tho' I confess I had mentally pictured her as looking more like the films Ms.
Chadwick. And I had visualized 'Chaddy' as much frailer.
Still looking for a copy of "Mrs. McGinty's Dead". (sigh)
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Thank you, isak, I looked her up on IMDb and she has a million credits, but I have not seen many of them except The Darling Buds of May and the Flame Trees of Thika. But that face! I have seen that face recently. I keep thinking Harry Potter but she's not listed as having been on it. Another mystery!
I kept looking for Hastings and Miss Lemon too. :)
REALLY want to see what they do with Miss Marple!
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Thank you Frybabe for the link as I had missed the Cat Among the Pigeons..
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I'm glad I didn't read the book first. Thus I sat glued to the TV with no expectations or forewarnings.
David Suchet carried the show without the trappings of Miss Lemon or captain Hastings (who I often find rather boring). the pace was quick and the mystery played out well.
My husband was upset that Poirot had been looking at the Knees of the "Princess" before he knew she was a suspect. That was a stretch I must say.
There was some fine acting in the show although Poirot topped them all.
Thanks for the info about other roles he has played.
I read the interview with Suchet that was suggested and must admit that I never thought of Poirot having a dark side. But then again every human has his or her shadow side so why not Poirot?
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I think calling the fact that Poirot gets lonely as he gets older, and misses family a "dark side" was a fair stretch. If so, most of us have a "dark side'.
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Several years ago I got the dvds for three Sayers mysteries, "Strong Poison" "Gaudy Night"
and "Have His carcase" - and lo and behold, Carol Macready was a very recognizable and
vibrant Dean of College who was in "Gaudy Night" , heavily involved in solving the mystery.
So it was not too hard to recognize her when I saw the "Cat among pigeons" Christie mystery.
It's quite a challenge to reduce a whole Christie book down to only 90 minutes, so I guess it's
not so surprising that a lot of liberties were taken with the story.
isak
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CAUTION, SPOILER ABOUT WHO DID IT. DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE EPISODE YET
I have not read the book yet but enjoyed the TV production. The quick scenes about the revolution in India at the beginning were a bit confusing but, while watching them, I thought that they must be for background information to prepare for something that occurs later in the plot...as they were.
I was completely surprised by "who done it!" The little romance with the secret service guy helped to completely throw me off. I guess I'm not a very good detective :-)
I too was wondering why Poirot had to reveal secrets about each person in front of everyone else. I guess it was Agatha Christie (if the book does this too) or the screenwriter's way of explaining things about each person to the reader/viewer but it seemed odd.
I liked the girl who figured out there was something hidden in the tennis racket.
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Isak, You mentioning the Dorothy Sayers' dvds you have reminded me of how much I enjoyed the series of Peter Wimsey mysteries with Ian Carmichael on PBS. He had just the right mannerisms and quirky sayings.
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MARCIE:
I guess it was Agatha Christie (if the book does this too)
The role of 'Miss Blake' was built up in the film version, as I believe someone
else has noted. And no, in the book she was not obliged to 'tell all'. I also
found it odd and uncomfortable, and cannot see why the writers put it in the film version.
JUDE, I will now have an opportunity to see if I prefer the film without first
reading the book. I cannot find a copy of "Mrs. McGinty's Dead" anywhere.
I've been on-line and there is not a library with a copy anywhere on this side of Houston, and I'm not prepared to make an hour's drive in the hope of finding one available. I will join all of our posters who view the film with unbiased eyes. ::)
one.
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BABI: Fantastic Fiction tells me that "Mrs. McGinty's Dead" was also published as "Blood Will Tell". Try that in your library.
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Our library has "Mrs. McGinty's Dead", but I am not planning to read it until after I see the film version. I think I'll like it better that way. And, hopefully, the fund drive on our local PBS station will be over. They interrupted "Cat Among the Pigeons" twice, for about 20 minutes each time. Just long enough to lose the thread.
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I just watched the mystery tonight, on the link you so kindly provided. Wow, I'm glad I'd already read the book (a few years ago, but I remember it pretty well). I had trouble hearing everything they were saying, and keeping track of who everyone was, but because I knew the story I could keep my bearings. They chopped and changed the story a fair bit, but you have to, to keep to 90 minutes. I liked some of the changes, not others. I agree, there was no reason to pad out David Suchet that much.
Sayers mysteries: There were two excellent series of Sayers mysteries. The one you mention, Isak, which includes "Gaudy Night" had Harriet Walters as Harriet Vane, and Edward Petherbridge as Lord Peter. I wasn't bright enough to recognize Carol Macready here.
The one you mention, Marcie, with Ian Carmichael, was also really good. I'd have a hard time figuring out which of the two made a better Wimsey. Any Sayers fan will probably be familiar with both, but for novices, I would strongly recommend Nine Tailors (with Carmichael) and Gaudy Night (with Petherbridge). I think Nine Tailors is Sayers' masterpiece, it's so full of the atmosphere of the village, the importance of the Church, bell-ringing, flooding in the fens, and the awful dilemma of some of the characters, and the film does a good job on it. Gaudy Night is also really good--it's got a complicated plot involving some intellectual issues that are handled well.
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"Blood Will Tell"? I asked the info. librarian at my library, and she came up
with the alternate title of "Saw Death Coming". I suppose, as old as that book is,
it could have had three different titles. I'll check "Blood Will Tell". Thanks
for the information, JOAN.
For reasons I am totally unable to explain, I've never cared for Harriet Vane and
Lord Peter. Haven't read them all, of course, but somehow those two seemed to irritate me. Perhaps it was entirely my own perceptions/mood at the time.
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BABI: I agree with you. And the Sayers books very a LOT in quality. I do like "Nine Taylors", although, technician as I am, I always want to know how things work, and I cant always follow her descriptions of the bell ringing.
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I looked up Mrs. McGintys Dead on Amazon and it is available used for three dollars.
I also have bought Anne Perry on Amazon. Eighty books so far and the newer ones are even better than the old ones. Sometimes you can get some used ones for only one cent.
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I reread my post. I have not bought 80 books. Perry has written 80 books and I have about five.
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Babi, a whole lot of people agree with you about Sayers, and her books vary wildly in quality. She is also one of those writers who is in love with her detective, which can get tiresome.
I once had the privilege of going on a fund-raising tour of the upper reaches of the Washington National Cathedral, including going into the bell chamber. The bells are HUGE. Several of us could stoop down, duck under, and stand up inside a bell at the same time. They are also thick, almost a foot, which surprised me.
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This is pretty far afield, and only sneaks in through Dorothy Sayers.
Sayers translated Dante's Inferno--I like what I've read of it better than what I've read of other translations--but the way she came to do this was very strange. It was during WWII, and a lengthy air raid pinned her in a cellar or something, with nothing to read except Dante. She didn't know Italian, but her Latin was close enough that by the time she emerged hours later she was hooked.
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Pat H.
Interesting story about Sayers, Dante and her Latin.
Evelyn
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I think having the detective reveal the guilty party in a room of character was a common (my literary vocabulary is lacking this morning) technique used in mystery stories at one time. I'm thinking Nero Wolfe and Ellery Queen and maybe others.
Stretches out the suspense maybe?
Nan
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You are quite right, NAN. The great detective astounding all with his revelations was a popular technicque. It is too unrealistic for our modern
mysteries. Of course, our 'modern' TV shows have another technique I find
very trying...so dumb! The guilty party, at the end, breaks down for no good reason and tells all!
Alas, JUDE, too late. If I had ordered a copy of the book early on, I might
have had it in time. As it is, I will simply have to join those in the discussion
who watch the film only. Fair enough.
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Good point, Nan. NOw you're going to have me wondering all day who else did that -- all gathered in a room.
I was in such a hurry to get out of town, that I set the VCR for the wrong time and got the last half hour of "Cat .. .. .". (I had already shut down and unplugged the computer, so couldn't check the time.) But supposedly it will be on local PBS on Saturday night, and Mrs. McG on Sunday night. So all is well.
I read 'em as I get them, not necessarily in order. Was reading this from Agatha this am in the doctor's office -- it brought a smile.
"She set down the scone she was eating with her left hand and just touched the arrangement of her hair. It was a femine gesture. It marked her recognition of the entry to the room of a personable man."
Very interesting about Sayers and the Inferno. Shades of Longfellow and the DAnte Club.
I liked the Nine Taylors, JoanK -- didn't Bill lead a discussion of that?
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I will be away for two weeks visiting family and coming home to attend a wedding (not mine).
My Tivo is all set to capture what I miss of the TV shows.
Hope you all enjoy the programs and the books.
Thanks to Joan Pearson the Agatha Christy books will be my companions on this trip.
Talk to you all on July 13th or thereabouts.
PS: I don't like Dorothy Sayers because I find her tedious.
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I like to read the book before I see the film. This way I have the story in mind and it's not so terrible that I miss half the dialogue! I have a hard time with the BBC productions - miserable hearing!!
Reading "Mrs.McGinty's Dead" now and came across this quote:
"...you've no idea of the agony of having your characters taken and made to say things that they never would have said, and do things that they never would have done." Spoken by Mrs.Oliver, author of a novel being made into a play!! Ho ho!!!!!! Is that timely, or what?
A little piece that made me laugh out loud: "For somewhere there is in the hay a needle, and among the sleeping dogs there is one on whom I shall put my foot, and by shooting arrows into the air, one will come down and hit a glass-house."
Agatha can be very funny when she wants to. That is the best mixed metaphor ever!!
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GUESS WHAT! I went to the library this morning for my volunteer stint, and
found waiting for me a brand-new, hard-back, already processed copy of
Mrs. McGinty's Dead! Those sweet librarians had made a special effort
to find one for me and have it ready this morning. I was delighted and totally
surprised. They really made my day.
I am already half-way through the book. I loved the mixed metaphor JoanR
quoted, and in the morning I want to take the time to quote Poirot's candid
views of himself. I got a bit grin out of that, as well.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery!)
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
Thank you for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans?
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. |
Discussion Leader: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
Gosh, I am almost half way through Cat Among the Pigeons and no Poirot yet. Lots of differences between the book and the TV production. |
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"Mrs. McGinty's Dead" is quite different, FRYBABE. "Hercule Poirot" are the first two words on the the first line of the first page. ;D
In his reminiscing on this occasion, HP gives a perfect picture of himself.
He is missing his old friend Hastings, who was always awed, baffled and astonished by Poirot's superior intellect and talents. "It is my weakness, it has always been my weakness, my desire to show off."....."But indeed it is very necessary for a man of my abilities to admire himself--and for that one needs stimulation from outside. I cannot, truly I cannot, sit in a chair all day reflecting how truly admirable I am."
I suspect that had Poirot not been unfailingly courteous, his smug pomposity would have alienated nearly everyone who came to know him.
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Cat Among the Pidgeons " .
I will look forward to the Sunday episode . After which I hope to jointhe group discussion much earlier in time.
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ats.
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Well, two of my posts were lost in Cyberspace . Maybe my post was toolong for the Quick Reply post .
I liked Cats Among the Pidgeons and David Suchet's portrayal of Poirot .
I agree the beginning scene was confusing .
On thursday evening PBS here in California broadcasted another episode of Christie's work " Four and Twenty Blackbirds " Again Poirot at work. This was only an hour and I liked this episode more than Cats .
Did any one else happen to view this second episode ?
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JOANR: it's not your hearing. If it were, I'd have to admit that I have miserable hearing, too. Horrors!
It's a mixture of the different accents and sound quality. I often have trouble in British productions: never in American.productions.
My PBS station showed the last Foyles War last night. I'd seen it before, but worth watching again. I will miss them.
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There is a book and gift co called "Bas Bleu" (I guess French for bluestocking) and they had a
set of Agatha mysteries (none of the 4 we were wanting) but I still got them, since they are
hardback, and one is "Murder on the Orient Express". What a treat to have 4 bran-fresh Agathas to enjoy.
Re DL Sayers - I have been reading her books, listening to audio books, and now getting DVDs
and reading all the books I can find at UT about all of her stuff for going on 40 years. She really is a prodigy - going from "Gaudy Night" to translating "The Divine Comedy" No one
else would ever get me to READ that!! - but she did!
In about '63 or so, I attended a retreat where we heard audio tapes of her "Man Born to be
King" plays - and ever since I have been addicted to anything of hers. We had a quiet weekend
with times of silence and quiet meals - and it really made us all LISTEN to what was going on.
isak
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If PBS featured "Four and Twenty Blackbirds" here, RETIRED, I totally missed it. I'm
surprised they were able to do a good job with a one-hour show. The 90-minute
feature we show last Sunday required quite a bit of chopping. I'm looking foward
to seeing what they've done with "Mrs. McGinty" tonight.
Strange, JoanK. I find the British preciseness in diction much more understandable
than some of our American slurring and mumbling. Other accents, though, often
present a problem. Don't worry about missing any favorite PBS shows; they are
bound to be repeated.
ISAK, I've always found such retreats into time of silence very peaceful and
soothing. Then, truly listening is an art that is quite rare.
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I was surprised to see Mrs. McGinty's Dead last night on Comcast's ON Demand. PBS has it scheduled for tonight. Odd, they've never before, that I noticed, put up a program on ON Demand before it airs on regular channels.
At the program beginning the host had an interesting comment about one of the characters in the production and how Christie felt about Poirot, so listen for it.
I was looking at the list of book titles in the front of Cat Among the Pigeons and was very much surprised to see a giant list for Poirot. There weren't near as many Miss Marple titles listed.
After reading "...Pigeons", I still prefer the productions of Poirot over the books.
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Yes, Isak and Babi, it's odd how liberating keeping silence can be.
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None of us had ever attended such a retreat, where there were designated periods of silence and
then discussions of the texts. Spread over three days, and in a pastoral camp setting away from
everything else, it was meaningful in a whole new way. We could not get enough of the silence
or beauty of the setting, and of the experience of sharing with our fellow students and leaders.
This was close enough to the end of WWII so that we were able to add in some of the thought
of Dietrich Bonhoeffer as well, due to the expertise of the leaders. There were two ELCA
(then ALC) seminary professors who added a huge amount to the whole experience.
isak
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When I watch the PBS Masterpiece productions on my computer after they have been shown on TV, I can always hear everything quite clearly. So if I have time, I usually watch those shows a second time and then I can usually figure out what was said and what's going on.
I'm going to watch "Mrs. McGinty's Dead" on TV tonight and will discuss from that. My library had a copy of the book with print so small, I simply put it back on the shelf. They also have an audio book, but it was checked out.
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Ah, silence! I agree, silence is liberating, I do agree. Have you been to DisneyWorld - or even Disneyland? I just posted this over in the People of the Book discussion - (By the way, I hope you will all be able to participate in this discussion starting July 15 - it is a wonderful book.)
We survived a whole week in DisneyWorld with 7 grandchildren - the oldest seven - in 98 degree heat! All I can say is - never attempt this yourselves - and if you must, make sure you have a cell phone on you - charged! (With the phone numbers in each kid's pocket.) And probably a hearing aid turned all the way up or you'll never hear the person on the other end of the line.
Needless to say, I didn't get to watch Cat Among Pigeons last Sunday - but did watch it on the computer just now. (Nor did I see Four and Twenty Blackbirds on Thursday, Retired. I don't think I ever saw any television the whole week - with the exception of a few news programs.)
Christie liked those titles from nursery rhymes and Children's Games, didn't she? I wasn't familiar with the "Mrs. McGinty's Dead" game until now and my understanding is still rather sketchy. Have you ever heard of it?
I read both episodes - one and two, so am ready for Mrs. McGinty's tonight.
For those who haven't read the book before viewing the TV episode tonight - be sure to listen to the author, Mrs. Oliver and see if you don't agree that Christie is having fun with this character, describing her own reaction to the adaptations of her books to film and plays.
Indeed, you have to wonder what Christie would think of Poirot advising Miss Bulstrode on her successor - because he was such a judge of human nature! Better than Bulstrode? I think not. Didn't you think Agatha Christie's Bulstrode was more formidable and stronger a character?
Of course Poirot had to be written in earlier in the first episode - David Suchet needed more of a role than he had in the book.
Do you remember the effigy of straw Miss Spitzer had made of Miss Springer? I didn't remember that at all in the book - but maybe I just forgot. And do you remember why poor Chaddy, Miss Chadwick was shot? I forgot that too!
I'm really looking forward to Mrs. McGinty tonight. I think Agatha Christie provided more of a role for David Suchet's Poirot in this episode. Back tomorrow - and it's good to be "home."
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Isak, JoanP: there was a wonderful retreat center near where I used to live in Gaithersburg, Maryland. They held weekend retreats, but once a month on a weekday they wuld hold a four-hour silent retreat. I used to go almost every month. If you have never experienced a silent retreat, it's really hard to describe: being silent with others in a beautiful setting in the woods which has been dedicated to silence for years is nothing like being silent at home; especially when you do it over and over.
The retreat center was called "Dayspring". I hope it's still there -- it was being threatened by road-building. People came from all Christian denominations, and other religions as well. The retreat went from 10 to 2. A brief greeting at the beginning, and at the end, those who want can share their thoughts. The rest is silence, People bring a bag lunch and eat in silence (the first time I went, I brought raw carrots, and the CHOMP of biting them sounded like gunshot in the silence).
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Yes, JoanK, Dayspring is still there, though they are having infrastructure problems and need contributions. I haven't been for a while, but urge anyone who gets a chance to try a silent retreat. You can't imagine what it's like until you try it.
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Welcome back Joan P. Glaqd to see that you survived the horrible heat.
I am waiting, not very patiently for tonights production of "Mrs. Mc Ginty's Dead"
Joan Grimes
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My wait is over!! It has just begun.
Joan G
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All right, folks, I ask you.... What do you really think of Hercule Poirot?
Do you find him admirable? Amusing? Annoying? Is he orderly, or is he
obsessive. Vain, certainly!
I can understand how Christie could have
become annoyed with her character. As Mrs. Oliver said, more or less,
you have the character do something and it is very popular, so you are stuck with it.
Once again, it has been necessary to cut-and-chop to fit the time constraints.
I thought reducing the old crime photos to two was sensible. I did think it
a shame that the Weatherly's were dropped entirely. They were an
interesting trio of characters.
What changes did you approve of? Which ones did you regret?
You know, I rather liked more 'human' aspects of Poirot here. His feet hurt,
and he suffers the loss of that which gives him the most enjoyment...good food
and good coffee. But he endures these things because a man, and not a very
likeable man, may be innocent.
I find I am liking Poirot now more than I did on first reading these books a
lifetime ago. Perhaps I am now at an age where I can relate. :)
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The good weather kept me outside, so I missed the beginning of last night's program. I will need to watch the beginning, and maybe most of the rest. I vaguely remember reading this book, as you say, Babi, "a lifetime ago." I think I'll skip rereading it. I didn't much like most of the characters in the book or in the movie. I think the performance gave them more depth than I remember from the book, though.
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It has been many, many years since I read the book. I will read it again though.
When I was young reading Agatha Christie, I did not like the books featuring Poirot but now I do enjoy them. I really was a Miss Marple fan. I think seeing David Suchet as Poirot is what has made me become a Poirot fan. I really enjoyed the production. I did not remember any of the book. So I will not comment on the changes.
Joan Grimes
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At first Poirot's enormous ego turned me off - but the more I see of him - the "world's most admired detective" as he bills himself, I am amused when people (most people) have never heard of him. You can just feel him cringe at this. It's funny.
I liked the author, Mrs. Oliver - she was true to the book - I think she was supposed to be Agatha Christie, don't you?
Yes, there were changes from the book. But this time, they were not as drastic as those made to Cat Among Pigeons, did you think? I'll wait for others to comment on the differences.
I will say what really struck me - the fact that there were a number of attempted murders - not by the actual murderer - and those Poirot let go - scott free! Especially the guy who almost killed Poirot by shoving him off the train platform.
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nlhome wrote:
You know, I rather liked more 'human' aspects of Poirot here. His feet hurt,
and he suffers the loss of that which gives him the most enjoyment...good food
and good coffee. But he endures these things because a man, and not a very
likeable man, may be innocent.
I find I am liking Poirot now more than I did on first reading these books a
lifetime ago. Perhaps I am now at an age where I can relate
It was interesting to note that Poirot put up with these discomforts without the usual fussing. Could it be because Ms. Lemon and Captain Hastings are no longer there to complain to? Wasn't he more verbally fussy in his younger days, or am I remembering wrong?
I agree wholeheartedly that the productions provide a lot more depth to the characters than you see in the books.
Speaking of Ms. Lemon and Captain Hastings, how did Christie manage to remove them from the scene? Which book(s) address their departure?
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Iliked the author, Mrs. Oliver - she was true to the book - I think she was
supposed to be Agatha Christie, don't you?
Definitely, JoanP. In the introduction, the host told a story of how Christie
complained about her character Poirot, how tired she was of him and his quirks.
Sounded just like Oliver and her complaints about Sven.
Poirot could not be certain about who pushed him,..and he certainly could not
prove it. Triumphant once again, I imagine he was smug and satisfied enough to shrug it off.
FRYBABE, in the book Poirot does complain, but mostly in his own thoughts. He is greatly pleased to see Ms. Oliver, partly because he can now seek her sympathy for
his complaints. He also bemoans, right at the beginning of the book, the loss of
his friend Hastings. He greatly misses having someone to astound with his brilliance. :-\
I think the film has made Bentley a slightly more sympathetic character. He isn't quite such a prissy, self-centered wimp. (Not to be critical, mind you.)
I also thought it was a good idea to reduce the number of photo clues to two; much more manageable than the original four.
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While we are waiting for the next mystery and were discussing different titles for the same movie or book, I must tell you what happened to me last night.
I sometimes listen to audio books to help me go to sleep and last night I tried a new mystery. From the first paragraph, I knew I had already either read it or listened to it. Now, here's rub! The book has a different title and a different author! Well, I am going to play Ms Marple and take myself to the library today to look up both books and see whats up. hehehe!
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Agatha Christie had a great sense of humor. Put Poirot into his proper milieu: detectives such as Ellery Queen, Nero Wolf, Lord Peter, Sherlock Holmes, all insufferably smug about their vaunted powers of observation and deduction. Here comes HP, unaswhamedly vain, always right, and, worst of all, if not quite French as close as flame to smoke. David Suchet shapes Poirot into the near parody that I'm sure Christie intended. Here is a quote about Mark Twain: "Exaggeration works as humor for Clemens because the process of identifying the distortion engages his reader's intellectual vanity." The Mark Twain Encyclopedia: http://books.google.com/books?id=zW1k-XS6XLEC&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq=exaggeration+humor&source=bl&ots=9t1LeKVgkC&sig=onRdrLigEdLIis2MLHYCeJI3460&hl=en&ei=QC9KSpPWIIrQM7aE9acB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9
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Oh yes, I loved his line on Sunday night's show: " Madame, did you not know that I, Hercule Poirot, am the greatest detective in the whole world?" He's a hoot! :D
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Much to my dismay, after taping Sundays' second episode of Mrs. Maginty Is Dead " I proceeded to play it back the following morning. The tape would NOT playback . I jumped , jumped . No matter what I did to correct the situation the tape continued to jump. I called Walmart . They told me it was probaby a defective tape.
The problem is not my VCR as I then tried the system with a professionally produced tape and it operated fine . I always clean my tape heads before inserting a new tape.
So, I shall lurk and read the group's offerings and I hope I have more luck for the third episode .
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What a shame, retired. I think that VCRs can be more complicated/problematic than computers! You can watch the episode online if you like..at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html
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Discussion Host :
Do you have any more books left of Agatha Christie mysteries to send to me . If so what is presently avasilable ?
I would send you my mailing address in response to your answer and return postage when books are received.
I will check back when you respond .
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Thanks for that link, Marcie. I think it's just what retired needs at this time. It is quite satisfying to watch the episode by the chapter - you can tend to the laundry or other chores t'ween episodes that way!
I'm not sure whether we have another set of the books left or not - they flew out of here like, what, like flapjacks, like frisbies. I'll get back to you as soon as I do some research on this last set. Jackie, did you request the Christie books? I know you've paid for two sets, but have no record of your requesting the Christies...
Sunday's show will introduce the new Miss Marple. I can't wait. The book Pocket Full of Rye, is great - I'm really enjoying it...though barely started.
Tell me, those of you who have read so many of A. Christie's books - are the murders always multiples? Or sometimes is there just one? After the two Poirot's, I'm expecting more than one...
Babi - not only did Miss Oliver complain about her characters' requiring the same mannerisms, she had much to say about the way they were dramatized on stage and in film.
"I think the film has made Bentley a slightly more sympathetic character." I agree with you, Babi - he was too good looking too - and likeable. I thought that was Christie's point - that he didn't stand a chance before the jury because he simply wasn't likeable. And that young woman from work who claimed to be his friend - I was suspicious of her from the very beginning. Bentley had NO friends.
Yes, it was more understandable - condensing the suspects to two women instead of four. It was a bit confusing trying to keep them straight in the book, wasn't it?
So who identified the murderer - Robin Upward? Did any of you catch him? If not, who did you suspect? To be honest, I was expecting more than one killer...
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I paid for two sets? First I forgot to pay then I paid twice? I'm sure that I paid only for one set, the Mankell books. If there are Christie books left I'd like some, too.
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"Exaggeration works as humor for Clemens because the process of identifying the distortion engages his reader's intellectual vanity." The Mark Twain Encyclopedia
:
Aha! JACKIE, you have exposed us all. Poirot, (the Belgian, as he will quickly
tell you) is not the only one displaying vanity. We readers are enjoying a bit
of it as well.
MARCIE, thank you so much for finding that link for Retired. I know the show had a repeat showing at 1a.m. Monday, but I don't know if there will be any others. It's fortunate that the episode can be viewed online.
Bentley did have one friendly sympathizer in the book, as you will recall, JOANP.
Deirdre Henderson (Mrs. Weatherly's daughter) found common ground with him, but of course the Weatherly family was dropped from the film version entirely.
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I don't agree with those who liked the portrayal of Mrs. Oliver. To me, she was too upper-class and snooty. I think of Oliver as rumpled, disordered, and distracted.
But other than that, I liked the film. I didn't reread the book first, and I think i enjoyed it more. It flowed better than the first one, less chopping and changing from one character to another.
I couldn't tell any of the men apart: they all looked alike. But it didn't matter -- I remembered who the killer was.
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Marcie:
Thank you for the online link to view the second episode of Agatha Christie's Mysteries .
Much to my pleasure and surprise it functioned well and I was able to view the entire episode .
My system usually shuts off after ten minutes of viewing any MSN news video.
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Great, retired. I'm glad you were able to view the episode.
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I have to agree, theTV version of Mrs. McGinty's Dead was much easier to follow than the original story. It's a good thing. At least with the book you could keep thumbing back to see who's who - which I did, frequently.
The Masterpiece episode provided a number of graphic scenes - especially of the meal preparations at the boarding house - remember them? How many meals did Poirot actually consume there as he watched the ingredients go in. I don't really remember much of this from the book.
Babi - I forgot that Bentley did have one admirer in the book - Deirdre - Mrs. Weatherly's daughter. This, despite the fact that he was quite a drab uninteresting, unlikable character - in the book. I still wonder why he was such a good-looking and sympathetic character in the film. The whole point was lost.
Retired, I'm sorry to say we are out of books - but remember that after the Wallander series, Mippy sent her set of Mankell's books to someone who wanted to read them. Would you like a set of the "used" books at the conclusion of the series? I'm certain someone would send them on to you - if you do. (I would.)
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Joan:
I would only be interested in the Agatha Christie series of used books if some one wanted to pass them on to me .
I would then provide my name and mailing address and pay the postage to the sender .
Any one interested in passing them on?
As I recall the vido Piorot refused the meal when he observed the hostess cut her finger during the preparation of the string beans and bleed directly into the food.
As an experienced Homocide Detective who has viewed many bloody scenes the look of dismay on his face was amusing in contrast .
I thought that this scene was included entirely for the readers ' amuement .
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Joan, I think Bentley still came across as selfish and self-centered, but still
a great improvement over his book persona. Apparently the bond between him and Deirdre is that they were both so devoted to their mothers. One of the keynotes of the book seemed to be mothers who 'devoured' their children.
There were a number of instances in the book of Maureen Summerhaye's
madcap housekeeping and cooking, RETIRED. I agree, it was all very amusing
for the reader.
What I did not find amusing was what the writers did to the Summerhaye's and Miss Sweetimin(?). I don't recall any big argument between the Summerhaye's, and Major Summerhaye and Miss Sweetimin suffer a major
change in their characters. Miss Sweetimin is changed from an efficient,
observant lady of great common sense. She is put in the position
of carrying on an affair in the hedgerows, so that she can be present to
witness a change the film writers made in the story. I was greatly displeased!
>:(
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Babi - I agree, it's the changes that seem pointless that irritate the most - as if the adapter has a better understanding of the characters and story than Christie did.
What I find I miss in the filmed versions is Christie's writing, her expression. I've just finished A Pocketful of Rye - is this, it must be "Four and Twenty Blackbirds) - and I had to smile at this line in the opening paragraph -
"...she had a mild worried face like a sheep."
We'll never hear that line - or others like it, in the film...and never stop to muse about a worried look on a sheep's face...
I'm so glad of this experience - Masterpiece has made me apprectiate Agatha Christie's writing so much more - by directing us to the written word.
Retired - one more book to go - and my set will go out to you. Jackie, will you still be wanting the books when others are finished with them? I'm wondering if you ever received the email I sent out to you.
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Joan:
I will email my address to you after the next Christie episode .
Once again on Thursday from 9 tp 10pm , only one hour another Poirot mystery was scheduled on PBS . " 3rd Floor Flat " Odd noises and boisterous neighbors lead Poirot to a murder in his building .
It was not very exciting and not complex at all. Did Christie write any Short story mysteries ? Any one know ? It seemed like this episode was baed on a short story.
Poirot was very amusing as always .
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery! (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/index.html))
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
Thank you for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. View the episode online at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html through July 19. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy (the book is sometimes called EASY TO KILL)
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors (the book is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS)
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans? (the book is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE)
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. |
Discussion Leader: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
|
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Christie wrote lots of short stories, with a variety of characters. I prefer short stories - easier to read in the limited reading time I have. (Although I have set a goal of at least half an hour each evening reading a book on the deck before sundown.)
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I just finished watching "Mrs. McGinty's Dead" on PBS video. I rather enjoyed it. I made a point not to read the book beforehand, so I enjoyed this PBS version very much. It seems I get a lot more out of the video with headphones on, than watching Masterpiece on the TV. Perhaps no outside noise and household interference. I love being able to watch by chapters and be able to take a break after about 35-40 minutes.
Hopefully, I'll be able to watch it again before company comes tomorrow. I really enjoy David Suchet and his portrayal of Poirot. Hurting feet, mincing step and sweet smile. And those little grey cells. And once more, I love those fashions, that red, red lipstick and those cars.
No one had said anything about the comments "What's all the fuss about, she's only a char". That was absolutely insufferable. Was that in the book? The snobbery was unbelievable.
I read "A Pocket Full of Rye" as soon as I received the books. Miss Marple will be a change of pace.
Happy 4th of July everyone. Hope you all enjoy the holiday.
Evelyn
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Yes, she wrote lots of short stories!
I've been enjoying re-reading Christie's Autobiography. Wonderful!
HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY !!
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So true, JOANP. So much that is enjoyable in Christie's writing is not dialogue, and is lost in the film script.
I see that NL has confirmed that Christie did write short stories, RETIREd,
but I'm not familiar with them. I don't think they are as available now as her novels.
EVELYN, the bit about 'she's only a char' simply reflected the attitude of the
character who said it. She was a snob, and snobs are always insufferable.
I think we can expect to see some extensive re-writing of "Pocket Full of Rye" tomorrow evening. Like Poirot in "Cat Among the Pigeons", the producers
will want to see Miss Marple on the scene much earlier than she appears in
the book.
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I have read some of Christie's short stories but I do not like any short stories. I saw several volumes of them when I was looking for Pocket Full of Rye in bookstores and libraries around here.
Joan Grimes
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Fantastic Fiction let me down. It doesn't list which of Christies 120 books are short stories. The three I remember as being the best, perhaps, are "the Labors of Hercules" (Poirot -- 12 stories, each with some resemblance to a labor of the Greek Hercules, who had to perform 12 labors)
The Tuesday club Murders (?) Miss Marple
and "Partners in Crime" (Tommy and Tuppence-- if you don't know the Tommy and Tuppence mysteries, you should -- the long books "The Secret Adversary" and "N or M". And a delightful BBC series you can get from Netflix.)
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I love the Tommy and Tuppance mysteries. They are my favorite novels by Agatha Christie.
Joan Grimes
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There are also some stories about Mr. Quin that are interesting.
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I have a large volume of Hercule Poirot stories, but truthfully I can't
remember if I read all of them. Ordinarily, I'm not a great fan of short
stories. I am, however, definitely a fan of Agatha Christie.
JOANK, thank you for remembering Tommy and Tuppence. I had forgotten them and they were favorites of mine. Really, Masterpiece Theatre ought to do more of Tommy and Tuppence. Though I think they did do one, which I didn't much care for. I think those stories would translate very well onto film.
"Pocketful of Rye" coming up tonight! I do hope they haven't changed it too
much. If you are like me, there were characters in the book that you hope
will turn out to be guilty, they are so unpleasant. But then, that would
be too easy, wouldn't it?
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Were all her short stories mysteries? I've never read one of Christie's short stories as many of you have. Somehow I cannot imagine condensing a mystery such as those we've seen so far - "short" in anyway - there are always multiple murders with twists in the plot and a number of suspects. I'll have to read a "short" mystery by Agatha Christie - just to see how it is executed.
Like Poirot in "Cat Among the Pigeons", the producers
will want to see Miss Marple on the scene much earlier than she appears in
the book. Babi
Babi - what really struck me in reading Pocket Full of Rye - was how relatively small a role Miss Marple plays in the story. I bet you're right in assuming that the TV version will center on her character.
I'm really looking forward to tonight's episode and the NEW Miss Marple. Here is an interview with Julia McKenzie, talking of her role as Miss Marple - If you are hard of hearing, you will probably have some trouble hearing it - her voice is quite soft - If you can turn up your audio, you will probably have to do so.
Interview with Julia McKenzie - Miss Marple (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/mckenzie.html)
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Thanks for the reminder about Tommy and Tuppence. I haven't read the short story collection, "Partners in Crime," but recall enjoying the PBS series of the same name which featured James Warwick and Francesca Annis. I like Francesca Annis (Wives and Daughters; Cranford). She has an unforgettable face and I admire her acting.
I finally viewed the episode of Mrs. McGinty's Dead online. Like Evelyn, I enjoyed the fashions, the cars, and the houses and their exterior and interior design/accessories. I love the way that David Suchet brings Poirot to life. He's more endearing to me than pompous.
It was a good mystery with many possible suspects. I had a "feeling" about the playright but thought he couldn't have murdered his mother since he was at the play. 90 minutes is not a lot of time for a mystery with all of the characters and misdirections that this one provides so the tv production seemed a bit fast with lots thrown in. The written story is definitely told at a more leisurely pace.
I enjoyed them both.
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Thanks, JoanP, for the link to the interview with Julia McKenzie. That's an interesting anecdote about the wardrobe taken from Dame Peggy Ashcroft in "Passage to India." I saw the film but didn't remember the clothing.
I think she'll make a good Miss Marple. We'll see tonight! I didn't realize that Joan Collins was born in London.
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JOANP: the short stories are simpler -- the solution turns on one clue,and there isn't time forall the "red herrings"
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And they ARE clever, Joan K mentioned the Labors of Hercules, those are really fun, she was very inventive and clever.
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JoanP: Thanks for the link to the interview with Julia MacKenizie. I enjoyed it, especially the anecdote about her 96 year old mother. It was funny seeing Joan Collins striding along in a fur coat and then the camera zooming down to her tennies. Now that looked like solid comfort.
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Thanks Joan P for the link to the interview. I enjoyed watching it.
I am waiting now for the broadcast of "Pocket Full of Rye" to begin.
It will be on here in about 20 minutes.
Joan Grimes
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Well I was impressed with the Agatha Christi Miss Marple production - the actress for Miss Marple was OK but the rest of the caste was all the new brightest and best of English actors - I saw this one and that one in various productins -
Matthew Macfadyen is all over the place in one show after the other; Little Dorrit stands out - Ben Miles from Lark Rise to Candleford as the older brother and there was Prunella Scales from Faulty Towers as the aged [was it Mrs. McIntyre - the widow of the owner of the Blackbird mine] And then the younger brother, Rupert Graves from the second production of The Forsyte Saga About the only new face was the young maid nor did I recognize the cook.
And then next week Benedict Cumberbatch who was in The Last Enemy on PBS and he had a small part in the movie The Complete Jane Austin and he was a Jr officer in a period navel movie To The Ends of the Earth. And Russell Tovey, the Marshalsea Prison keeper's son in Little Dorrit.
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I keep telling myself I'm going to watch at least ONE of these TV productions without having read the book first - so I can enjoy the televised version for itself, without comparing it with the book the whole time. Barbara, you sound as if you were able to enjoy the PBS version for what it was - and I envy you that. Maybe I'll try it this week. I was going to read "Murder is Easy" this week - before Sunday's episode - but now I think I'll have to put off reading it until after I see the show. (I learned when putting "Murder is Easy" on hold in my library that it was published in the US as "Easy to Kill.")
With the book fresh in my mind, it has been impossible to view the story without being acutely aware of the differences - and there were some BIG differences, some puzzling changes in "Pocketful of Rye" -
I think Agatha Christie would have approved of Julia McKenzie in the Miss Marple role. I noted her description of Miss Marple when reading the book this week - a "fluffy pink and white old lady" than some of the other wry and wizened Mrs. Marples who played the part before. (ALthough I think I prefer some of the "wry" Miss Marples.)
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I enjoyed the PBS version of Pocket Full of Rye. I had not read the book recently. I read it many, many years ago. I do want to read the book again. I am really enjoying the PBS productions. I really look forward to each of them.
I thought the new Miss Marple was all right. I do think the actress did a good job as Miss Marple.
Joan Grimes
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I didn't care for the TV Production too much. I guess I should not have read the book first. The production seemed a bit "rushed" to me and the characters were a lot more "catty" than I read into the book. Julia MacKenzie was okay, but not the best IMO but she did very much look the part.
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I agree, FRYBABE. The characters in the film did seem to me more acerbic--and less realistic, IMO--than they were in the book.
I felt the actress portraying Pat Fortescue was totally miscast. She didn't seem to fit Christie's description at all.
The opening of the film was a nice touch, though. Beginning with Gladys leaving Miss Marple established the relationship that was the reason for Miss
Marple appearing on the Fortescue doorstep. The very fact that she was admitted at such a time was, to me, one of the weaker points of the story.
I thought Percival came across as a more likeable person in the film than
he did in the story. Given the position he was in, his actions seem reasonable
to me.
Q. What do you think are the weak points of this story? The strong points?
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Babi ~ I agree with you that the characters in the book were better than in the film.
And also it was neat to have that introductory moment with Gladys and Miss Marple.
Sadly, I fell asleep before the end ... having already read the book ... so I'll try to find a chance to watch the rest on the PBS web site.
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I didn't read the book yet. I had remembered "who did it" from the PBS production with Joan Hickson as Miss Marple but that didn't detract from my enjoying this production. I thought that Julia McKenzie was a good Miss Marple. I remembered seeing Matthew MacFadyen who played Inspector Neele, in something else. I looked it up- he was Mr. Darcy in the 2005 Pride and Prejudice with Keira Knightley.
I think that the scenes between Miss Marple and Inspector Neele were a bit weak because both actors were so understated in their delivery. I like both McKenzie and MacFadyen but I think that MacFadyen needed to be a bit more demonstrative about not understanding/being bewildered about what Miss Marple was saying. I know the director probably wanted to hold back on the nursery rhyme revelation but somehow I don't think the interaction between Miss Marple and the inspector had enough tension or something.
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Thanks for the information, Barbara, on some of the other actors and their previous roles. I didn't place Prunella Scales who played Mrs. Mackenzie in this version, although I now recall seeing her in Faulty Towers. I found this trivia note: Prunella Scales husband, Timothy West, had appeared in the BBC adaptation A Pocket Full of Rye (1985) (TV) as Rex Fortescue!
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A reminder for those of you looking for the books for upcoming episodes in your library or at a bookstore:
The book for "They Do It with Mirrors" is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS.
The book for "Murder is Easy" is sometimes called EASY TO KILL.
The book for "Why Didn't They Ask Evans?" is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE.
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Joan: Sorry I missed your email. I've been very lazy this last week while our temps were in the 90's so didn't check my email as I usually do. My check was for $5, since I had misplaced your note. Wasn't that card special? I got a box of them at Costco a while ago and love them for those special occassions, like when i forget to mail my check!
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I hear you about the lack of tension between Miss Marple and Inspector Neele however, my thought was as I watched they were more team mates where as in the past they were played more adversarial.
My guess was that each time they create a new production they have to make a different interpretation or else why bother - the settings were wonderful in this production as compared to some in the past and there did not seem to be much tension except between the brothers so that it was difficult to judge who was the bad guy unless you were familiar with the story.
I thought Helen Baxendale was a great Mary Dove until she also becomes a friend and cohort of Miss Marple and lost her edge in the process - this whole production was mild mannered and I thought it was calculated to be so by the director as well as, this Miss Marple having been in Cranford I thought it was her more genteel eighteenth century coming through.
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Babi - I think what I disliked most was dropping the book's character - the rather eccentric auntie who lived in the house who spilled the beans to Miss Marple. I guess they didn't want to pay another actress - Prunella Scales could have played her...
In her place we had to listen to Crump the butler's drunken portrayal of the blackbird plot.
The other thing I didn't understand - we saw Miss Marple go to the Sanatorium to visit Mrs. McKenzie. I don't think that ever happened in the book, did it? Wasn't it Inspector Neele? He had a lot more of a role in the book and was a stronger character - ALTHOUGH I did make a note of this -
"Miss Marple ... like an aunt encouraging a bright nephew (Neele) for a scholarship."
I did get the impression that Neele was a bright pupil who recognized that Miss Marple could teach him a thing or two.
Oh, there were things I did like about the TV production - but these two were the things I really didn't think were necessary, changes that didn't improve on Christie's story.
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I see I did right not to reread the book first. I remembered who did it, but not the details. So I was able to just enjoy the story. I thought Miss Marple was OK: no one will ever be perfect, but she did a good job. I thought Lawrence was very good. And I liked the Inspector, but didn't remember the original.
In all these productions, the characters don't have quite the -- what? sparkle? flavor? they do in the book. I think that is more a tribute to Christies skill than anything else.
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JoanK ~ I agree completely. Several of the characterizations seemed to be underplayed in this version of the film. Was it on purpose? Or was it because of the actors chosen.?
I'm glad I read the book first or I would have been even more confused. All in all, I like the Hercule films better than this latest Miss Marple. What does everyone think?
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I don't remember his name, but I loved the scene with the box of chocolates,
where Neele's colleague was ignored when the chocolates were offered, to his
noticeable chagrin and disappointment. Really, tho', that was too rude to be
typical English behavior, IMO.
MARCIE, thank you so much for that listing of alternative titles. It is bound
to be useful to more than a few of us. In the scenes between Neele and
Miss Marple, it seemed to me that he was so bemused by her ideas that he
could do little more than stare and murmur politely.
PAT, I suppose they wanted to cut the cast of characters, and Miss Ramsbottom(?) was the easiest to drop. It was simple enough to assign her revelations to Mrs. Crump or, as you say, Mr.Crump. (He was a thoroughly unpleasant character, wasn't he?)
I believe you are right about the interview with Mrs. McKenzie. I don't
remember Miss Marple as being involved in that at all.
Christie's skill in depicting characters does have a lot to do with it,
JOANK. She was so good at that. But I also think the modern screenwriters
feel it necessary to make the characters more 'edgy' and less pleasant. I
sometimes think they have a hard time imagining a character who is sincerely
decent and likable.
I hadn't thought of it like that, but I believe MIPPY is right that the
Poirot films were...what shall I call it....sharper than this first MM film.
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Babi - there were some wonderful moments in the TV production...I found I had to keep watching, rather than multi-task as I usually do when watching TV. Yes! The chocolates! That was funny! I'd forgotten until you brought it up.
I felt that about the understated way the roles were played, Mippy. - Poor Inspector Neele seemed so inadequte and yet he was the one who persisted, in spite of the pocketful of rye. He was at a loss, and who wouldn't be. Especially after Miss Marple injected the Four and Twenty Black birds dimension - which, as it turned out, was simply a red herring...or was it? It was Neele who went to visit Mrs. MacKenzie - NOT Miss Marple. Neele did the leg work, following up on Miss Marple's leads. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Miss Marple episodes to see if Inspector Neele continues to play his role in such an understated manner. I confess, I enjoyed reading Miss Marple - more so than the filmed version, which didn't seem to capitalize on her insights - her understated influence coming from an unexpected and unlikely source.
May I brag a little? I pegged the murderer, even though I still don't understand (or remember) how he accomplished it - the train schedule and all. It was his wife that I stumbled over. Thought she would have to be in on it, and yet Miss Marple liked her from the start. Whenever I began to suspect her, I'd remind myself that Miss Marple was an excellent judge of character. For thta reason, I kept veering away from her husband, but not for long as the clues kept leading back to him...his African connection, his willingness to settle for the defunct Blackbird Mine.
Poor Percy/Val - described in the book as the family's "white-headed boy." I guess that means fair-haired boy in "English"? ;)
I had Mary Dove as Ruby McKenzie though -thought she played that role quite well, didn't she?
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I had the murderer pegged early on too. I did not want it to be him but knew that it must be. I usually figure out who the guilty person is in the Miss Marple mysteries early.
I love the scenery in this production. I thought it was lovely.
Since I have not read the book lately I find I am not able to enter the discussion much. However I would have read it if I had been able to find it.
Joan Grimes
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I lked Julia Mckenzie in her portrayal of Ms Marple very much. More so than the actress who portrayed her in last years' production . I have no read the book todate so I have no comparisons to offer.
I also liked the actor's portrayal of Inspector Neele very much.
I agree that the scene with the box of chocolates was amusing.
Do you remember the scene when the daughter returns home and piles up her many boxes of shopping purchases and her coat in the arms of the butler Crump and he can barely see to navigate a distance . He appears to be in danger of toppling over.
Christie provides a number of scenes where we can laugh as a departure from the serious focus of the murders .
Any one have a similar reaction to her inclusion of amusing scenes ?
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retired and all who have mentioned the chocolates scene, I agree that it's refreshing to have some humorous scenes interspersed. I, too, thought that the daughter piling the packages on the butler was amusing (though rude!).
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This Miss Marple is very good.
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You were cleverer than I in detecting the killer, JOANP, though it did occur
to me that poor Pat had a history of marrying the wrong kind of man. Still, he
seemed so frank, so likable...and did love Pat. See, he even charms
the reader!
Let's watch to see how Neele develops in the next three films.
I've noticed that, too, JoanG, that Miss Marple stories seemed easier
to solve than Poirot. I sometimes got angry with the Poirot stories, as
it seemed to me they weren't fair. The 'clue' pointing in the right
direction would be so obscure! Then at the end Poirot would pull it out
of his hat, so to speak, and my reaction would be "Ah, come on! No fair!"
I like Julia MacKenzie, too, RETIRED. I thought the earlier actress looked
more like I envisioned Miss Marple, but she added an element of whimsy and
gaiety that one simply does not see in our thoughtful, observant Miss Marple.
Now see how confused I was! I thought that was the daughter-in-law piling
up the packages, not knowing how to be courteous to a servant. I am
disappointed to hear that it was Elaine. On the other hand, she hardly got
a proper guide in that area from her most unpleasant father.
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When is a Pocket Full of Rye not a pocket and not seeds? hahaha
Have you read this?
http://www.snopes.com/lost/sixpence.asp
Fascinating!
I am having trouble viewing the production online. I can HEAR it, but I can't see it. From what I have heard it's wonderfully atmospheric so I really want to see it. I was a giant fan of Joan Hickson's Miss Marple, not so Geraldine McEwans, and I really want to see the entire thing before saying. I can HEAR Prunella Scales and I'm a big fan of hers also so really would like to view the thing. I think I'll watch it first then read the book, which I have, and have totally forgotten, despite the many times I've seen it filmed.
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It's always fun, when watching British programs, to watch for favorite actors. One of the recent Poirot's had Zoe Wanamaker, who I've been watching on PBS in The Family. Look up her CV on IMDB I see that she has been in so many kinds of productions, including being nominated for best actress at the 1999 Tony Awards.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery! (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/index.html))
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
Thank you for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. View the episode online through July 19 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy (the book is sometimes called EASY TO KILL)
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. View the episode online through July 26 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors (the book is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS)
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans? (the book is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE)
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. |
Discussion Leader: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
That description of the nursery rhyme was fantastic! Who knew? I know about "Ring around-a-rosy, and "This little piggy", but not others. |
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GINNY, what fun! I have also read that some 'nonsense' songs were really
ways of dishing out the society gossip. Everyone 'in the know' knew what
they referred to, but the offended party couldn't take offense
without acknowledging the rhyme as a reference to him/herself.
JOANK, please, tell us what "Ring Around The Rosy" and "This Little
Piggy" really meant.
I have "They Do It With Mirrors" sitting in the other room, waiting to
be read. I don't remember that one offhand, so I'm looking forward to
reading it. "Why Didn't They Ask Evans", now, was one of those that kept
me puzzled to the end. Comes the explanation, and it's "Ohhh, I see!"
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When I mentioned the nursery rhyme to my best friend, he said he hadn't heard of the Blackbeard origin. He believed it originated as something else, but of course I forgot what. He is out of town, so I can't ask him again just now. However, I did find this in Wikipedia at the very bottom of the page regarding "Sing a Song of Sixpence":
An origin posted on the Snopes.com section The Repository Of Lost Legends (TROLL) - that the song was originally used by Blackbeard's pirates to attract new members - was actually created by Snopes, and has no factual basis,[4] but was an exercise, like the other Lost Legends, in advising against false authority.[5]
What a shame. I kind of liked this explanation.
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I am remembering this as something to do with - the King in the counting house counting out his money and the queen was in the parlor eating bread and honey and the maid was in the garden hanging out the clothes when along came a blackbird and snipped off her nose and then the bit about four a twenty blackbirds baked in a pie - so that I always thought that was the punishment for the bird snipping off the maid's nose - Because when I was very little my grandmother sung it in German and it wasn't blackbirds it was 'vier und zwanzig Buben backte in ein Pastete' and when we asked why were boys baked in the pie it was because they didn't do what they were told. And so of course to me the blackbirds got their just deserts.
What was the one - something a cook is chasing children to boil them in the pot - did it have something to do with the cow jumping over the moon - so many of these nursery rhymes have been sanitized in the last 40 or 50 years so that they no longer have the images that were - but I remember this image even being in a stage production - maybe a ballet - something where several nursery rhymes were pantomimed across the front of the stage and the cook with a wooden spoon was chasing a young boy round a large rounded pot, taller than the boy dancer, was made to look like it was steaming and the boy was going to be cooked.
Some place I read that many of these awful nurseray tales were as a result of the lingering memory from the Children's Crusades where the children never returned and they did not know what happened to them - the Pied Piper being one tale - turned out those children that did not die on route were sold into slavery in Constantinople.
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hahaha, what a hoot, who do you trust, Wikipedia (please!) or snopes, the site of those who disprove Urban Legends? hahahaa
But there are MORE!! Check this one, out Henry VIII? Blackbeard? You can take your choice!
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1904/whats-the-nursery-rhyme-sing-a-song-of-sixpence-all-about
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I took the opprtunity to view the recent episode of Ms Marple " A Pocket Full of Rye "
a second time . I find I see and learn more ths second time . Reinforcement of information does indeed aid learning.
Ms Marple really does solve the case for Inspector Neely as he pays attention to her assessments and looks perplexed as she discusses the case with him .
The ending scene really hit the mark when Ms Marple reads the letter and sees the photograph of Lance and Myrtle together which had arrived in her absence from home .
What were your thoughts about the ending scene ? Anyone ?
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That is the way the book ends. I call it very effective.
Ring around the Rosie, I've always heard, refers to the Black Death. The first line describes the appearance of the rash that appears. The "Pocket ful of posy" is the habit of carrying bags of herbs to ward off the plague. Ashes, ashes are from the cremated bodies, and all fall down is death.
The "little piggies" refer to people of the day. I have to look up exactly who.
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OK, I can't find it. Someone explained an origin to me once (who each person was: obviously people being parodied in some political dispute, buit whoever it was might have made it up: I couldn't find a reference to it. Shame on gullible me.
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Hmm..I suppose a 'bag' full of rye makes more sense than 'pocketful'. Other
than that, the idea of naughty boys baked in a pie is definitely horrifying.
One wonders if at some time there was a financial scandal involving rye
in which 24 swindlers got caught and punished. Hey, sounds as good as some
of the other stories, right?
The political dispute origin of 'piggies' sounds reasonable to me, JOAN.
How often do we hear greedy, corrupt persons referred to as pigs at a trough?
The reference to 'market', tho', makes me think it might have been a financial
boondoggle as well as a political one.
I've started reading "They Do It With Mirrors" for Sunday nights film. And oh
my, we can surely expect some trimming of the list of characters here. We
are simply teeming with possible suspects, with a background setting somewhat
similar to Poirot's "Cat Among the Pigeons" case.
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Babi :
Isn't there a nursery rhyme " Sing a Song of Sixpense and a Pocket full of Rye Four Twenty BlackBirds baked in a Pie " ?
I was confused about Christie 's use of the title of her book until I remembered some of the nursery rhyme after viewing the film.
I have not read the book .
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http://www.cajuncookingrecipes.com/wildgamerecipes/black_bird_pie.htm
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hahaha, Barbara - an amazing recipe! Can't say I'm going to be trying it anytime soon though - that's a lot of game birds to keep in the pantry!
Retired - yes - the blackbirds, the pocketful of rye - the maid hanging the laundry in the courtyard when the bird nipped off her nose - and left the poor thing with a clothespin in its place. I think it will make more sense to you when you read the book.
This week I'm experimenting - won't read the book until after I view "Murder is Easy" tomorrow night. I want to see if I can follow the story - and THEN I plan to read the book to see what I missed. This will be a first.
This week I'm experimenting - won't read the book until after I view "Murder is Easy" tomorrow night. I want to see if I can follow the story - and THEN I plan to read the book to see what I missed. This will be a first.
Here's a link to an interview with Christie's son - and if you look to the left of the interview there's another link to Christie's biography. Some information about her marriages - the first ended in divorce after Archie Christie confessed his affair to her. Although the name of the woman wasn't mentioned in this biographcy, I've read elsewhere that her name was - Amelia Earhart!!! Do you suppose this is true?
Here's the grandson on his grandma -
"I suppose the nearest that any character came to being like my grandmother herself was Ariadne Oliver. Even she wasn't [completely like her — there were a few things that were similar, my grandmother liked apples and liked cream, for example — but I don't think my grandmother was as chaotically dressed as Ariadne Oliver was. I think members of the family that read the Ariadne Oliver novels recognize a certain twinkle in her eye, a sense of humor, and a love of the ordinary things of life that reminded them of my grandmother."
Agatha Christie's Grandson's memories (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/christie/prichard.html)
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Oh,yes, RETIRED. I remember it from my own childhood.
A common modern version is:
Sing a song of sixpence,
A pocket full of rye.
Four and twenty blackbirds,
Baked in a pie.
When the pie was opened,
The birds began to sing.
Wasn't that a dainty dish,
To set before the king?
The king was in his counting house,
Counting out his money;
The queen was in the parlour,
Eating bread and honey.
The maid was in the garden,
Hanging out the clothes;
When down came a blackbird
And snipped off her nose.
Ignore the last part of my post #168. Tonight's film is "Murder Is Easy"; next week is "They Do It With Mirrors". It appears I will be doing the viewing/reading of this weeks offering as JOANP proposes to do! I got my reading out of sequence. :-
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Well, I thoroughly enjoyed Murder is Easy. I haven't read the book so I can't compare but I did like how the cameras kept doing close ups of possible poisonable things. I was also more impressed with Julia MacKenzie's performance in this one than I was in Pocket Full of Rye. The other actors did well, especially the guys that played the policeman (uniform,forgot the character's name already) and Major Horton.
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Well I have just read this book and then watched the PBS production. I wish that I had not read the book. I did not enjoy the PBS production because it was changed completely. I would never have recognized the PBS production as this book because it was changed so much. I thought the book was so much better than the PBS production.
Joan Grimes
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Frybabe, I too watched the TV episode without reading the book and I enjoyed it. I thought Miss Marple was very good in this one.
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Okay, one of the disadvantages of seeing the film without having read the book, is that it is so hard to get the characters straight. (The policeman was
Reed, FR6BABE......I think.) Anyway, we were introduced to a half-dozen
characters as soon as Miss Marple arrives for the funeral. That took all of
maybe five minutes, but over half-way through the film I was still trying to
get them all straight. Agatha Christie did like to have lots of possible suspects
for her stories.
I found Jessie Humbleby's (the doctor's widow) behavior very strange. It
never was explained entirely to my satisfaction, though obviously her new
freedom went to ther head. No grieving widow, this one. And I found it
hard to credit that five people were murdered so horribly by a woman you
would think could not possibly do such a thing. I had to suppose that her
brother was not the only one in the family with mental problems.
Since I missed the book on this one, those of you who read the book must
tell us. Did the book do a better job of explaining the character of the murderer? What insights did you find in the book that could not be..or were not...transferred to the film?
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That's a good question, I'm, however, chiming in to say I caught the last 27 minutes of it, having not read the book this time and having only a vague memory of it.
It's instructive to watch the last of the show, you miss all the atmospheric beginning, you miss the murder and the build up, and you're stuck with a sort of denouement, so the performances really stand out. They, in my own opinion, were very bad.
THAT is not Miss Marple, I'm sorry. I know some of you like Julia McKenzie. She's better than Geraldine McEwan, that's true. She's too young, she's two years older than I am for Pete's sake, she's supposed to be in her late 70's, early 80's, made up to look old, there's none of how I envisioned her in the books, how Christie described her. I did read the interviews with her grandson, they are wonderful, thank you Babi.
He talks about the new actress and welcomes her to the stage, but if you notice he also mentions Joan Hickson as the "archtype," and that's what she is, she's the archtype, she's the personification of "Miss Marple," to me. And his grandmother liked her performance so much, she intended to write a play FOR her.
I have to be honest and say I did not finish it because the performances of the women were very odd and strange. Very poor acting. And to be honest, after watching about 15 minutes, I could not figure out who this woman was supposed to BE, I kept leaning in, watching for Miss Marple isms, they weren't there: she wasn't Miss Marple. Now I'm going to read the book and then see if Joan Hickson did this particular one, (* In Edit, she did not, so this is an open field for MdKenzie), as, being a dyed in the wool fan, I want to see it done properly. I'll watch another one of Hickson's so Miss Marple can come alive again. Everything old is new again? Sometimes they need to leave the oldies but goodies alone.
Can you imagine somebody other than David Suchet as Poriot now that he has created such a character in memory? I don't know why they keep making Miss Marple over. (I realize Joan Hickson has passed on, and she herself retired from the part in her 80's as she did not want to be "typecast ,") hahaha but why remake a character that was great to start with? In order to film episodes she did not make? I guess that's a valid rationale.
The motto of one of the big movie companies is Ars Gratia Artis (the one with the lion roaring). Art for the sake of art. Something that is good does not need to be constantly made over. Can you see a remake of Gone With the Wind? Who else could be Rhett Butler?
If I had to rate that one on the strength of the denouement, and acting, it would have a very low letter. If you have not seen HIckson in one of her performances, rent the tapes on Netflix.
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Those who were asking about Christie's short stories, here is a list of some of them:
Short story collections
Poirot Investigates ·
Partners in Crime ·
The Mysterious Mr. Quin ·
The Thirteen Problems ·
The Hound of Death ·
The Listerdale Mystery ·
Parker Pyne Investigates ·
Murder in the Mews ·
The Regatta Mystery ·
The Labours of Hercules · T
The Witness for the Prosecution and Other Stories ·
Three Blind Mice and Other Stories ·
The Under Dog and Other Stories ·
The Adventure of the Christmas Pudding ·
Double Sin and Other Stories ·
The Golden Ball and Other Stories ·
Poirot's Early Cases ·
Miss Marple's Final Cases and Two Other Stories ·
Problem at Pollensa Bay and Other Stories ·
The Harlequin Tea Set ·
While the Light Lasts and Other Stories
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I watched the episode last night and enjoyed it. I know I read the book at one time, but it was in the past long enough not to interfere with my enjoyment of the story.
I agree, this current Miss Marple doesn't physically fit my personal image of her, but the nosiness came out quite nicely, I thought. My picture of Miss Marple is a little white-haired lady who is a little less mobile.
As for the number of "suspects" and the unlikely murderer, well, it is fiction. And I must say, now and then I read a news story that seems more like fiction than reality - so real life can seems just as "unlikely" as some of these stories.
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Something was missing and my take is none of them played their part with conviction - it was if they were all in a tableau, as if being superior to the story and the part they were playing in the story.
As to it not being like past versions or like the written story - I think it is best to just take the production for what it is rather than comparing - I am thinking back to all the discussion over who made the better king in Camelot - Richard Burton or Richard Harris. They each brought to the part their special stamp of acting - and while the argument raged the play itself was lost because folks wanted to make the play about one actor's interpretation and any change a new actor brings some see as a sacrilege rather than the play being a vehicle to allow an actor to show his stuff.
And so I am thinking we may be better off enjoying these productions for what is there - we are seeing an adaptation of a story and we know from the Movies, except for the Harry Potter books, no story is replicated.
I thought this was a difficult story to tell today – as much shame as there is with rape today it is openly talked about and there is acceptance for the victim rather than blame as there was as late as the 50s –
This actress has played wonderful parts but I do not think she showed the desperation to the point of seeming loony out-of-control that would be the situation for a young woman in the 20s, 30s and 40s so that her actions, although horrific would seem logical – At that time in history her actions would have been from a young women out-of-her-mind with no legal or socially accepted recourse or protection – a story that showed the emotional and mental state of a Natalie Wood in Splendor in the Grass - where as today there is no logical connection with her solution.
I do not think any of the caste were able to convey the dilemma of emotion as a result of the act of rape being revealed and her subsequent powerless desperate situtation where she uses the story of Moses as a guide for getting rid of her shame, the baby, and then to hide this shame she murders all those victims. The concept of outrage by everyone to cover their inadequacy knowing they would have blamed her for the rape and if alive the man would be left to rape again and again as the way it is, just did not come across.
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This particular adaptation, if it can be called that, was so far from the book that it is rather ridiculous to have used the book to say it was written by Agatha Christie. Miss Marple was not even in this book. They just used a title of one of Christie's novels and the name of the place along with the names of characters and wrote a story. They took too many liberties with the book to be calling it by the name they did.
I agree that we do not need to make comparisons with Christie's books but just enjoy each production for itself. As for me I am not going to even try to reread the book of the same title as the production each time. I do want to reread the Christie novels but not along with these PBS productions.
Joan Grimes
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Barbara, to add to your setting out of the motivations behind Honoria's cover up and then killing of all those people... "the man" who raped Honoria was her brother who was mentally retarded. It seems she also was trying to preserve his posthumus reputation as well as her own. For me, the understated way she played the part seemed in character. Her murders were not out of rage. They were calculated in her own delusional way. She felt she HAD to murder each of those people as her adopted daughter was getting closer to the truth and involving more people in possibly discovering her secret.
The plot is a sort of soap-opera "anything weird and bad that can happen, will happen" but, given that, I enjoyed the production and the acting.
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Babi, I agree that Jessie Humbleby's behavior after the death of her doctor husband was REALLY strange. She said she was married "to a clod." It seems that she felt a great release after he died.
Maybe the actress was directed to be so off-the-wall so that we might think she was the murderer.
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, I found myself wanting to reach out to Honoria at the end. She was so terribly alone - as she must have been all those years with her brother, and then the rape, the baby. And the American woman was that baby! Come to find her mother and she had to meet her father's murderer - and her mother. I don't usually find myself in sympathy with a murderess, but this was an overwhelming burden to bear.
It WAS difficult to follow - there were too many women to keep straight. If I had the book in my hand, I would have been paging back to find out who was who. I'm beginning to think that the books transfer to the screen with difficulty. A. Christie spends more time in her books building up each character than the adapters do in the films...it seems to me.
I purposely did not read the book before viewing the film. Will read the book tonight. It is interesting hearing the different responses to the film - from those who haven't recently read the book.
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I did not read the book so I am not comparing the book to the video.
Once more I enjoyed the clothes, the cars, the make-up and hairdos, the scenery was beautiful, but the play was ....boring? sad? too many murders? I don't know what to say... The actors were not convincing, except for the actor who played Major Horton. He's a good actor and I have seen him in many movies. He's always good.
Oh well, there's always next week and the next play.
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Evelyn, next week I think we get Joan Collins in her fur coat and tennis shoes. That should be a treat. I read at the start of last night's episode - "based on a novel by Agatha Christie." I wonder if there is a difference between a story based on a novel - and on "adapted" from a novel. I don't know, I'm just asking.
Tell me, was there any character that you felt drawn to, or related to - or enjoyed?
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The worst bit of acting in the show had to be, IMO, the American daughter. She showed a singular lack of range of emotion throughout the program. I would have thought that she at least would have registered some intense emotion at discovering her Mother/murderess. It was more like - eh, okay I found out what I wanted to know so I can go now. If the director of the production was happy with these portrayals, then I'd have to say that poor directing certainly didn't not help.
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Oh well, at least they didn't change the title!! I read the book before the TV show. Not too much resemblance really.
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I really forget some of the names of the various characters whwn there are so many.
Starting with the next episode I plan to write down the names of the lead characters so I will not find it as confusing .
What I really found confusing at first was what precipitated the entry of the American girl into the story ? Was she adopted by the first woman who was murdered ?
Could some one clarify this for me.
I think I will need to watch the episodes a second time by watching on line
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GINNY, thanks is due to PAT for the interview with the grandsons, bless her!
As for Agatha Christie's description of Miss Marple, she is described as
having a pink and white complexion and white hair, easily leading people to
assume she was a sweet,fuzzy-headed old lady. That fit Julia very well.
That said, I must admit that Joan Hickson did better fit my idea of
what Miss Marple looked like. Or maybe I developed my bias as to what she
looked like after seeing Joan Hickson?
Here's a picture of her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Hickson
A very good analysis of the situation of the murderess, BARB. I found I
could readily understand her multiple motives for killing her brother, but
not the following murders. As you say, perhaps our modern minds cannot
grasp her desperation, but I am still unable to credit that she would
find four more murders an acceptable response.
" now and then I read a news story that seems more like fiction than reality.."
Ain't it the truth, NL!
JOAN, I'm not sure what you meant by "Miss Marple was not even in this book."
Can you explain that for me?
That's a possibility, MARCIE. Mrs. Humbleby grew increasingly erratic as the
story progressed, and I imagine she would make an interesting case for
psychological analysis. Suppressed wife to antic widow!
JOANP, I do think the Christie books transfer better to a full-length movie.
The 90 minutes framework simply isn't adequate and leaves the viewers more
confused than entertained.
Oh, yes,..Major Horton was good, wasn't he, EVELYN. I thought the young
man who played the ex-policeman and worked with Miss Marple was also good--and I've already forgotten his name! I have to agree with FRYBABE, too, that
the actress playing the adopted daughter didn't come across well, either. I
found it strange that she didn't react more strongly to learning that she was
the product of the rape of a sister by a mentally deficient brother.
I think we would all need a second viewing to get all this straight, RETIRED.
It was the American girl looking for her birth parents who alarmed her mother
into committing all those murders, to conceal the truth.
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Babi, not to belabor Joan Hickson in the role, but here are Hickson and David Suchet on the occasion of Agatha Christie's 100th birthday, in 1990. Hickson was 84 when she and Suchet met for the first time and if you can make out what's being said (which is difficult) you can hear their mutual admiration of each other, and you can see her "deceptively delicate" ways.
You can also see her, born in 1906, in 1987, walking briskly down stairs.
Unfortunately the sound is poor and her fluting perfect pink and fluffy voice is often lost. If you have speakers, now is the time to turn them way up. All the Brits in this one are swallowing their words. The second clip below is clearer if you can't make this one out:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&oi=video_result&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOqp2Xu82PmQ&ei=u4hcSoOkIpHSNdC-sK4C&usg=AFQjCNEwL-7Ci2ft84IkePOcVSBQKl-rMg&sig2=V7uexiGZSlGe1qhlxidYFA
I guess what I like about Hickson is that she did something very few other actresses her age do: she still acted. And with her sharp mind and fluting voice she was Miss Marple, brought her to life. Sort of an inspiration for us in old age. Anglela Lansbury acts still on the stage, is she really 84? Amazing to be doing stage at that age, I am so glad she won a Tony~! She looks much younger.
Hickson looked her age and was marvelous, running up and down those stairs in her 80's, she is the part. Suchet says the same thing.
Barbara, funny you mention Richard Burton. As it happens, I saw his last Camelot performance at Lincoln Center, in fact he fainted on stage two days later, obviously not at all well. I think the producers replaced him with Richard Harris so the tour could continue. I did not know there had been a controversy about the musical over their performances. I have also seen Rock Hudson in that part in summer theater and Robert Goulet as well. Each with his own take, as one might say. The musical itself, in my opinion, would not depend upon the role of Arthur or who played him but rather the music. I can still hear Burton, however, say those lines, say rather than sing as I recall but I could be wrong. I know that Camelot kept being tweaked, but to me it was pretty much the same no matter who did it.
To me, and again I could be wrong, in a musical it's the music which carries the part, not the person singing, tho I have to admit Andrew Lloyd Webber's first casting of Sarah Brightman in the role of the Phantom of the Opera, which he wrote FOR her voice, I think she was his wife at the time, was incredible. Of course in live theater, it's the moment: what this or that actor does at this or that moment which he might not repeat, which makes for the excitement.
Here is a clip of Hickson IN the role of Miss Marple in Nemesis, you can see the strength of the supporting cast, and you can see how she appeared to people as somewhat fuffy and scatty, initially, so they discounted her: really well done in the scene shown here about 3/4ths of the way through (when meeting her niece, who said, "here you are Aunt Jane:" and her response, "Oh....... yes..... well , yes........ yes." Brilliant as Suchet says. )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odN9mWXBCc0
Lovely discussion!
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Babi,
You asked me to explain my statement about Miss Marple not being in this book. She is not a character in the Book "Murder is Easy". Christie did not put her in this novel. She was added to the story by PBS. I have just read the book. Miss Marple was only a character in 12 full length Christie Novels and numerous short stories.
Here is the list of the novels in which she appeared:
The Murder at the Vicarage (1930)
The Body in the Library (1942)
The Moving Finger (1943)
A Murder is Announced (1950)
They Do It with Mirrors, or Murder with Mirrors (1952)
A Pocket Full of Rye (1953)
4.50 from Paddington, or What Mrs. McGillicuddy Saw! (1957)
The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side, or The Mirror Crack'd (1962)
A Caribbean Mystery (1964)
At Bertram's Hotel (1965)
Nemesis (1971)
Sleeping Murder (written around 1940, published 1976)
Joan Grimes
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Ginny, Camelot played at the Majestic Theater - I too saw the production and still have the playbill in my memory chest - my children were young and we were visiting from Kentucky and took them as their treat to a place called 'Freedom Land'. I do not believe the original musical played at Lincoln Center -
Richard Harris played Burton's part as King Arthur in the film. Burton only played Arthur for about 6 months and then was hired for Cleopatra - the rest was history of him and Elizabeth Taylor. I do not think it was Harris who replaced him on Broadway but I do not know who was the actor who did replace him.
There was a lot of talk at the time about the difference between Harris' Arthur and Burton's Arthur. Harris had a lighter touch as compared to Burton who was built like an oak tree and of course his distinctive voice while Harris was long and lanky who in comparison seemed like a poet. I guess the common element was they were both heavy drinkers.
And yes, the move production did not change the story however, they did add a few songs that were not in the Broadway play. I am not remembering as clearly but I think I read or heard the additional songs were written for the play and cut when it came to New York after tryouts in Boston.
There were scenes in the movie that could not have been done on stage - like the scene sitting on the grass 'Maying' and the scenes with Guenevere and Lancelot in the river and in front of the fireplace in winter.
I am remembering so often when a book was made into a movie it did not include the entire story or the story was slanted with a different focus and of course the biggie that many an actor did not fit our vision of the character - I remember that being true for Gone With the Wind - there were some of us that ritually read the book every year and when the movie came out we did not go to see it - we could not imagine chunky, rough and tumble Clark Gable as Rhett Butler - believe it or not to this day I have not seen the movie were as long ago I quit re-reading the book.
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Retired, as Babi said, the American girl was looking for her birthmother, who turned out to be Honoria- the one who murdered the others because they might reveal her secret about being impregnated by her brother and giving birth.
When Honoria sent her newborn down the river in a basket, Lydia Horton (who later married the Major--the guy with the mustache), found the baby and gave her to an American couple who were vacationing in the area.
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When Honoria revealed that she had borne a child fathered by her brother, my first feeling was horror. The possibility of dire genetic consequences of a sibling mating are astronomical. Add to that the brother's feeble-mindedness and Honoria's own slender grasp on reality and I would picture anything but the poised woman we saw. Maybe Christie was more tolerant of in-breeding since it was not uncommon among the blue-bloods in Europe. I believe that we Americans seek diversity in our matings as a result of our forefathers' rejection of their narrow opportunities in the old country.
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Ginny, Thanks for the links to the clips of Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot. She was my all time favorite and when I picture Miss Marple, I always picture her. I never saw "Nemesis" and will have to see if our library has the video. It looks good.
It's a shame that Joan Hickson is longer with us.
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JoanG - I'm so glad to hear that the film is not based on the book - well, only loosely. And that PBS inserted Miss Marple into Agatha Christie's "Murder is Easy." That really helps me. I have only read the opening chapters of the book, and already was starting to react to the fact that Miss Marple did not meet Miss Fullerton on the train, that in fact, it was the retired police officer - Luke FitzWilliam who met her and heard her story about the murders in Wychwood. In the book he's an older retiree - in the film he looks like a possible suitor for the young American, Briget Conway, doesn't he?
But the real difference is Bridget Conway. In the book shw is a secretary to Lord Easterfield - (Gordon) She grew up on the property that he purchased from her family. Now she is engaged to marry him. That's one way to get back the family homestead! I have no idea where the story is going from here. Will she still be Honoria's daughter? Will Honoria still be the murderess?
Stay tuned!
Seriously, you can't really compare the two. When you read "based on a story by Agatha Christie" it does not mean the story has been transcribed to film as Agatha Christie wrote it.
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Barbara, I'm not sure what you mean here:
Ginny, Camelot played at the Majestic Theater ....
I assure you Richard Burton's last Camelot, during which he fainted onstage two days later and had to be replaced due to ill health later, was, exactly as I said, at Lincoln Center. The original Broadway debut was 20 years before that.
I also took both my children, from South Carolina, who still remember it but not for the reasons one might assume, as is the wont of children.
Richard Burton reprised his role as Arthur in a revival that ran during the summer of 1980 at the New York State Theater at Lincoln Center. Christine Ebersole played Guenevere, and Richard Muenz was Lancelot.
Evelyn, wasn't she marvelous? I had thought Nemesis was Cristie's last book on Miss Marple, she wrote one {corrected here} for the last of Miss Marple and one [also corrected] for the last in the Poirot series,, but from what Joan G posted above, it appears she had another one come out as well. I think I still have the original first edition (not that that's anything, we're old enough for everything to be first editions) haha of Nemesis.
Speaking of first editions, I have two first editions (one as a gift from my children) of one of Stephen King's first books (I thought it WAS his first book but it is not! I wonder why it goes for so much)... The Stand, which I am told go for astronomical prices, we all better be careful what we throw out nowadays!
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GINNY: I don't think she ever killed of Miss Marple, although she did kill of Poirot.
Sigh, I seem to be the only one who can't understand a word Joan Hickson said. And my hering isn't bad! it's still true of that clip of her as Miss Marple, even though I turned the sound way up. I just gave up on even trying to listen to the Joan Hickson movies. And I'll still stick to liking Helen Hayes as Miss Marple in Nemisis!!
I didn't reread the book before seeing the movie, Sunday, and I kept thinking "I don't remember this book" until the hat paint. THAT I remembered! Minor glitch: Marple said the maid would never have picked red hatpaint because it clashes with her red hair. Unless the color is really off on my TV, the maid didn't have red hair!
Another glitch: Honeria looked younger than her daughter!
But I enjoyed the show.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery! (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/index.html))
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
Thank you for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. View the episode online through July 19 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy (the book is sometimes called EASY TO KILL)
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. View the episode online through July 26 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors (the book is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS)
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans? (the book is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE)
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. |
Discussion Leader: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
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You're absolutely right, Joan. Don't know why I said "killed off," that's not accurate, I should have said she wrote the final Poirot books and Miss Marple books ahead of time to bring them out for the last book in each series.
I'm sorry you can't hear her, she does have that kind of voice. I liked Helen Hayes, also.
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aha - two different times in history - I think of the play on Braodway in the 60s - thanks for clearning it up...
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Joank, I too was struck by the reference to the red hat dye clashing with the woman's red hair. Her hair didn't look red to me either. :-)
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Ginny your link to the 100th Anniversary of Agatha Christie led me to the following link. It is an interview with David Suchet regarding his voice over portrayal of the video game for Murder on the Orient Express. Most interesting.
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Oh, Ginny, thank you for going to so much trouble, but I'm now totally deaf
and wouldn't be able to hear more than possibly a slamming door. I find I
actually 'hear' the vibrations from something like that, but nothing else.
Thank goodness for on-line communication!
You're right about Burton in Camelot. He did 'speak' his songs. I was a bit
startled at first, but he still did it so well.
Goodness, JOANG, that was definitely taking liberties with a Christie
novel. "Murder is Easy" is the one book I had not read before the film,
so I didn't realize. I'm surprised there weren't more complaints about that.
"based on a story by Agatha Christie"
JOANP, you have found the key to the whole thing, right there. I missed that, wherever it was. It would have given me a helpful hint before I even began. "Based on" is comparable to advertising, where a med. is vaguely recommended as "aids in the relief of" which avoids any definite claims.
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Spoiler alert regarding MURDER IS EASY or EASY TO KILL
I just finished reading the book and am glad to know that the motive for the murders is completely different than in the TV program. I was uncomfortable with the idea, in the TV episode, of Honoria being raped by her brother who was mentally retarded and then her killing him as her first victim.
The book doesn't mention a brother at all.
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Right Marcie. I liked the book much better than the PBS Production . I was uncomfortable with all that in the book too. I just wonder what the reason for it all was. I kept asking myself why they did not use the story that Christie wrote. It was much better that what they did.
Joan G
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MARCIE & JOANGRIMES, more and more it seems as though the producers of
this film were taking great liberties in giving it Christie's title and
assigning her authorship. Other than preserving the names of some
characters, it apparently has very little to do with the book. The writers
idea of what appeals to a modern audience, I suppose. I find that
very annoying and want to complain to someone. I may do so!
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I did some checking, and there were complaints to 'Mystery' about the changes. One message board reported the following bit from the reply they sent her.
The British company Chorion owns the majority of Agatha Christie's brand and estate. For a time there was a moratorium on productions of Christie's work; Chorion wanted to see how it could be revised to better suit an audience of the 21st century. We now see the new Miss Marples.
Significantly, Mathew Prichard (Agatha Christie's only grandson), the chairman of Agatha Christie Ltd. (owned by Chorion), is fully in support of the changes made. He has said, "The rejacketing of her books and new adaptations of Poirot and Marple ... have all ensured that the magic of her storytelling continues to reach a contemporary audience and that she continues to be recognised as the undisputed 'Queen of Crime'."
I don't know. The grandson's endorsement sounds rather like it was
written for him by Chorion. I find myself somewhat cynical. If I'm wrong,
I hope Mr. Prichard will accept my apologies.
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Very interesting, isn't it? Perhaps the grandson hasn't read this particular book, lately - to see how wildly the PBS series differs from the book? Babi - it was in the introductory credits at the start of the PBS production where the words "based on the novel by Agatha Christie" appeared.
I notice that the description of the 1982 film, we are told it is an "adapted" from Agatha Christie's novel. Though there were minor changes, from the review you can recognize the book in the film.
"Luke Williams (Bixby), an American computer expert, is on a train to London when he meets an old woman (Hayes) who confides that she is going to Scotland Yard to report some mysterious deaths in her village. When she is killed by a hit-and-run driver after leaving the train, he decides to investigate. When he reaches the village, he is aided by a local girl who also suspects foul play. So-so mystery suffers from attempts to update the mystery with computer technology. Adapted from the Agatha Christie novel "Easy to Kill."
Film adaptation of Agatha Christie's novel-1982 (http://www.movierevie.ws/movies/1687468/Agatha-Christie-s-Murder-is-Easy.html)
I'd love to see this movie, wouldn't you? Olivia de Havilland as Honoria - Helen Hayes as Lavinia Fullerton. (Notice from the review, that Mrs. Fullerton was killed by a hit and run driver near Trafalgar Sq. as she was making her way to Scotland Yard....not pushed going down an escalator. I'm wondering what was gained by making this change?)
Just an observation - "Murder is Easy" was NOT one of the novels PBS made available to us. I'm thinking there was good reason. The ones we received were filmed as "adaptations" - not rewrites!
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I suppose there are people who think they can do Christie better than Christie. Why do people think they need to update or modernize stories? For the most part I don't care for it, especially when what is left is pretty much just the name. Never cared for the modernized versions of Shakespeare either.
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I see a parallel with the discussion in People of the Book, a novel about a real artifact which is approximately 500 years old. Conserve the old with its signs of wear or restore it with glossy new paint? Nowadays many fine old pieces of furniture (I'm not speaking of genuine antiques) are gussied up with white paint to look like shabby chic or whatever the latest buzz words are. I guess it depends on what you want, something authetic or something stripped of its embarassing blemishes.
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Frybabe, etc -I agree about the motives of the adaptors or screenwriters. I think it must
be more about their egoes than about remaining true to Christie so that you and I can relate
to what she actually wrote. Pity. How long do we need to wait until someone actually tells
it like it is. I think I'll go back and buy the Poirot series we all like and make do with that.
isak
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Thank you all for clearing up for me the fact that my memory has not completely diminished (That of my Husband too0. We both read Murder is Easy some years back and the version we saw on Sunday night seemed very different to both of us.
We felt that our memories had aged considerably. I don't know why we didn't consider the fact that the remakers of this Christie Novel had taken such liberties with it that it was not as tight or clever as we remembered it.Certainly there was no brother raping his sister in the original.
I imagine the remakers are not of those who believe a good story is still a good story without their new twists and embellishments. Sort of like those , with good intentions I'm sure, who insist on putting on Shakespeare 's plays in modern dress and as if happening in this century. Perhaps their so called "modern embellishments" make them feel important.
The Curious Case of the Christie Embellishers. Who can solve that?
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There seems to be a fair consensus here that the re-writing for this series
is definitely not appreciated. I suspect Honoria's motive for murder(s)
in the original story was not considered strong enough for modern times.
So much that was once considered too terrible to be endured, is now
hardly worth a second thought.
Sticking Miss Marple into a non-Marple story is sheer opportunism. Miss
Marple is popular, so drag her into the plot to lure the viewers in. Tch, tch!
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Casting in Murder is Easy was dreadful. Big clue was that red-headed person (who? what?) had selected red-shoe dye. Pity they hadn't cast a red-head for the part. I picked out the murderer five minutes into the show--why else would a big-name star be in the cast?
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I've been watching the TV productions first, without reading the book. For the episode coming up this Sunday, I decided to read the book first. We'll see how that works out.
I just read the blurb, in the heading above, about THEY DO IT WITH MIRRORS and I had to check if I'd read the wrong book! I don't know who writes the blurbs. LOL, those few sentence are not how I would characterize the story!
I've also just borrowed the Joan Hickson version of this story from our local library so I'll have three versions to compare (the book and the two TV productions).
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Wow Marcie!
Sounds like a serious college thesis you've taken on yourself.
Love to read the results.
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Jude 8)
I just finished watching the Joan Hickson Miss Marple version. It was very faithful to the book. A couple of differences but not major-major. I'll say more after I see the broadcast of the new adaptation.
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I just read the blurb, in the heading above, about THEY DO IT WITH MIRRORS and I had to check if I'd read the wrong book! I don't know who writes the blurbs. LOL, those few sentence are not how I would characterize the story!
Ditto and ditto, Marcie. I've just finished reading They Do It With Mirrors and was wondering the same thing. It will be interesting to see the film -- I hope to see it. OUr only PBS station is run by the University across the river in So. Illinois and again they have left the kids to run the show without any supervision. Beautiful HD picture, but no captions, which means no show for me. When this has happened before they don't fix it until after the weekend. We shall see.
I set Murder Is Easy to record while I was out of town, but there was a storm and power outage, so missed that one too. It's supposed to show again tomorrow night, maybe captioned, maybe not.
Looking at Netflix offerings it shows Helen Hayes as Miss Marple in Murder with Mirrors.
JoanG, thanks for the list of all the Miss Marple mysteries. I think my favorite is the 4:50 from Paddington, and I saw it on TV not too long ago with Geraldine McEwan as Miss Marple. There's also one with Joan Hickson.
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Finally found some time to finish Easy to Kill (Murder is Easy.) I don't think that those of you who only saw the last episode can appreciate the extent of the liberties taken with Agatha Christie's own story. You do know that the book is not a Miss Marple book. That Masterpiece inserted her into this story. But what else do you know?
Try this - the murderer IS Honoria Waynflete. But that's about the only thing the film and the book have in common. Bridget Conway was NOT Honoria's daughter. NOT HER DAUGHTER! Honoria had been engaged to a Lord Easterfield - who broke off the engagement years before because he thought Honoria was mad. (she is) Honoria is determined to make him pay for this. So she murders all those people to make it appear as if Lord Easterly did it And almost succeeds in getting him convicted. Bridget Conway had been engaged to marry Lord Easterfield - until she met Luke, the detective - fell in love with him - and decided to break off her engagement with Lord E. and marry Luke. Honoria then attempted to murder Bridget - to make it look as if Lord Easterfield did it.
You can't recognize the PBS version, do you? I think it's an outrage. Oh, there is another similarity - the title and the idea that it is EASY TO KILL or MURDER IS EASY. That theme runs through the book - that it is easy to kill as long as no one suspects you. I'd say the word "easy" is used close to 100 times in the book - I guess I'm exaggerating, but it is used frequently.
There's a lot to like in Agatha Christie's story. I think we all owe it to Ms. Christie to read it. She writes - "Men are more easily ((another easy!) than women." And then there was something else about listening to the wisdom of old aunts. I hear Miss Marple within these comments, though she does not appear in this story.
The "hat-paint" appears in both of these stories...I find myself wondering about it? What is it? Did ladies paint their hats at one time? Red? Hmm, early Red Hat Club ladies?
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Oh no, you don't recognize Agatha Christie's, 'They Do It With Mirrors,' from the description of the TV series either? I had hoped that last week's was some abberation - and will be double outraged if they do it again! I have Mirrors here at my fingertips - I think I'd better start it now... is Miss Marple in the book, I wonder.
On another note, have you seen the just-released Emmy nominations -
■Outstanding Directing For A Miniseries, Movie Or A Dramatic Special - Wallander
■Outstanding Lead Actor In A Miniseries Or A Movie – One Step Behind, Kenneth Branagh as Kurt Wallander
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Joan P,
Miss Marple is in "They Do It With Mirrors". Christie wrote her in this one. Of course I am sure that there will be many other changes in the story. However I hope that it will at least be recognizable as Christie's story instead of a mess that very few would want to read as the last production was. That story that they created leaves me with such a bad feeling. Christie"s writing never did that to me.
I don't think they should have the right to call this series "6 by
Christie" because they have changed what was written by Christie until it is not even recognizable in so many instances.
I have not yet read "They do it with Mirrors". I will wait until after the production.
Joan Grimes
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Your posts are inspiring me with a desire to see how many of the old
Joan Hickson 'Miss Marple' films I can find. I'm sure to have seen many
of them, if not all, but it would be nice to see where the writers didn't
mess with the story.
JOANP, a mad Honoria seeking revenge is a much more plausible motive, to
me, than the one used in the current film. I agree, the film we saw was
a travesty. I've been wanting to complain, but I don't know who the writers
were. I don't think I can blame PBS. cHORION owns the rights to the Christie
stories, but did they okay the changes, I wonder?
Women on small budgets did refurbish their hats as long as possible. I would
imagine that a felt hat could be painted, possibly some others, too. There are
places today where you can send a favorite hat to be refurbished. I tried
looking up 'hat paint' only to discover that there is a 'medicine hat paint
horse' that got all the attention.
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Babi,
I met someone earlier this year who was talking about painting a straw hat. I had never heard of anyone doing such a thing until she said she had painted her straw hat. So when I saw that in the book I knew that people did that.
Joan Grimes
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MARCIE: in your comparison, don't miss the version with Helen Hayes as Miss Marple. Bette Davis is in that one too, when she was old, and had had a stroke.
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Apparently there is more refurbishing of hats than I would have thought, JOANG. I found a number of sites for places that did refurbishing, and some
that offered instructions and supplies for making or refurbishing hats. They
seemed to be mostly useful to people with old period pieces they want to
preserve.
Tonight we get to see what they've done with "They Do It With Mirrors". I'm
curious to see which role Joan Collins is going to play. I suspect they will have
to 'beef up' one of the women's roles, if she is to 'co-star" with Miss Marple.
At least it is a genuine Miss Marple, unlike the last film we've all complained
about.
Have some popcorn. Enjoy the show!
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Thanks, JoanK, for the alert to the production with Helen Hayes. I'll see if I can locate a copy I can borrow.
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JoanP. Hooray for Wallander receiving the Emmy nomination. I hope that ensures that there will be a season 2.
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According to Wikipedia the Beeb is hoping Wallender will prove to be another series like Inspector Morse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallander_(TV_series)
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Jackie, do you think k.branaugh will agree to play Wallander for too long - he is Kenneth Branaugh after all, with lots of other interests and offers. Can you imagine anyone else playing Wallander though?
Thanks for letting us know that Mirrors is a Miss Marple story - in the film and in the book. I was worried.
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Monday morning, and another Miss Marple film viewed. This one did stick
somewhat closer to the book.
Deciding to use the adopted daughter and a younger Mildred, instead of
the granddaughter and a widowed, even more bitter Mildred, worked well
enough and did simplify matters somewhat. I did resent the writers changing
the character of Miss Believer (Jolly) into a mere housemaid. I very much
preferred the intensely loyal character Christie created.
The Carrie Louise characterization in the film did not, IMO, capture the calm
and serenity that was her hallmark in the book. Nor, for that matter, was
Lewis at all as Christie wrote him.
Still, as a film, I suppose it all worked well enough. Adding in a hidden door
and passageway was really too, too trite.
What did all of you think of the film?
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I ended up not watching the show. The story was not very interesting to me when I read the book, and when I turned the program on, it started out with a fire. I don't remember a fire in the book. Later when I cruised by to check it again, I came right in on when they found the secret passageway. Again, not in the book.
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Once again the book was much better ... I agree, Margie ... although I didn't have a chance
to watch the entire film. But I certainly enjoy reading AC once again, so this discussion has been a great boost this month for reading for relaxation!
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I certainly enjoy reading AC once again, so this discussion has been a great boost this month for reading for relaxation
Mippy, certainly agree with that statement. I have really enjoyed revisiting Agatha Christie Novels.
I found the presentation hard to follow last night but was glad that I watched it. My family from South Carolina were here and they watched it with me. My 10 year old grandson just keep saying that there were too many characters in it. He watched all of it though as did my 9 year 0id granddaughter.
The Next one, " Why Didn't They Ask Evans, is a book that Miss Marple does not appear in but is added for the next episode. I will not even bother to try to read the book. I will probably watch the production though.
Joan Grimes
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I read the book first and enjoyed it.. Then watched the film and kept asking myself "why." Why so many changes. And I kept wondering how old Carrie Louise was when Mildred was born. I understand that it was no doubt easier not to explain all about Pippa, etc, but the missing generation was a deterent for me. I just thought the whole show was so bad. ANd I wasn't too impressed with Julia McKenzie as Miss Marple. Actually prefer Geraldine McEwan and those shows weren't so hot either. Even if I had not read the book first, I would not have liked that show.
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It's a bit difficult for me to judge if I would have enjoyed the TV production more if I had not read the story first, as was the case for the previous productions. LOL, Frybabe, when I saw the fire in the opening scene, I was worried that PBS was switching programs on me :-) but it did set the plot about the financial dealings. Pedln, I was thinking the same thing... wondering how old Carrie Louise was when Mildren was born, although I agree with you that it probably helped to reduce the number of characters introduced. JoanG, I agree with your grandson, that there were a lot of characters for a 90 minute production, though they did try to "consolidate."
Babi, I agree with you that the characters of Carrie Louise and Lewis were very much different in the tv production. I guess the screenwriter may have been trying to update Carrie Louise into a more assertive person --with it being her idea to have the rehabilitation center for young men, rather than her husband's idea. But that seemed to make her more at fault for not realizing that she was overspending and left her husband to try to make up for it by "cooking the books." The motivation about him being jealous of Carrie's second husband, also lessened the depiction of Lewis's and Carrie Louise's characters, in my estimation, and made me have less empathy for them. The animosity between Carrie Louise and her sister was also unnecessary to the plot.
I didn't really come to like any of the characters. I don't think it was because of the acting. I think it was the way the screenplay was written. It's not so much that it was different from the book (it was) but the main ways in which the characters and their motivations were different from the book were not improvements.
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I didn't reread the book first. It seems that I enjoy the Tv presentations better when I don't. But I agree about Carrie Louise, and Lewis being different. Lewis was made more likable,and the motive more sympathetic (although rediculous -- if they were going broke, Carrie Louis would find out soon enough. Would anyone kill to postpone it a few months?)
I find they are giving enough clues to allow me to sort out the characters -- I give them marks for that. In spite of the alterations, i'd give them a "not wonderful, but not too bad".
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Loving your posts! This time I read half the book first - and then watched last night's production. I did find it off-putting that Gina was Carrie Louise's daughter, not her granddaughter last night, but on the whole I thought the story was fairly close to what A. Christie wrote. (Actually I liked the PBS Carrie Louise better than AC's - but feel guilty saying so because this is Agatha Christie's story, isn't it? Carrie Louise was so maddenlingly blurry and vague - vacant as if she was on drugs in the book version. Wait a minute - was she being slowly poisoned?)
I need to finish the book today before concluding on how PBS handled the story. I agree with your grandson, JoanG - there are always so many characters in A. Christie's storys- and in the film too. And so many of them are alike. If not alike, the names are alike and it's difficult to keep the right name attached to the right character. One of the reasons I like the books - I can keep flipping back.
I do intend to read "Why Didn't They Ask Evans" - remember it's also called "Boomerang Clue." It will be the final episode in the series.
Minutes after the Masterpiece Mystery production of "Mirrors" last night, our local PBS showed an old PBS Mystery - the "Bradford Hotel" I think it was called...Geraldine McEwan as Miss Marple. You couldn't help but compare the two Marples - there was no comparison!!!
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery! (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/index.html))
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
Thank you for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. View the episode online through July 19 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy (the book is sometimes called EASY TO KILL)
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. View the episode online through July 26 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors (the book is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS)
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. View the episode online through August 2 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans? (the book is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE)
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. |
Discussion Leader: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
Since I missed out on the book offer the TV productions are a tabula rasa to me but they do not engage me at all. This Jane Marple is oK but she lacks Hickson's charm. Each one of these stories so far has too many characters to keep up with. The motives for the murders do not have the impact that I would expect. They are not written for someone like me. I'm not eager to see the next one. |
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My sentiments are well expressed here in the previous posts.
I think I preferred the book, but maybe that was because I kept trying to remember what parts were being omitted or changed or added (like the fire).
I am reading "Why Didn't They Ask Evans". I broke down and bought a new HDTV so I could watch Masterpiece. My old set was dated 1988 and I got it new then when we moved to town. It worked well on analog, but the converter box did not provide a continuous picture, and kept breaking up.
But I live 50 miles from any TV tower, and only have an outside aerial about 20 feet tall.
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One did long to shake Carrie Louise a time or two in the book, JOANP. Nevertheless, Carrie as Christie created her better fit the story she wrote. The film's Carrie was more fun, but she would not have fit into the original plot nearly so well.
I agree with MARCIE, that the animosity between the sisters was
wholly uncalled for and added nothing of value. It was Ruth's concern for
Carrie that brought Miss Marple there in the first place.
Actually, she wasn't being poisoned. That was a 'red herring' Lewis threw in
to explain why Christian had returned so unexpectedly.
I seems all of us are not too happy with the current batch of re-writes.
I wonder if the same writers did all six? The last film is ahead of us;
please help me check the credits to see who the writers are.
I also found, on rummaging around for information, that the Agatha Christie
properties (the mysteries) are being offered for sale and the prospective
buyers are some group called 'Coolabi'. Coolabi, I learn, has recently
purchased the estates of crime writers Michael Innes and John Creasey, and
a large share in Eric Ambler. I detect a trend here. Is it good news or bad, I
wonder?
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Babi, it looks like there were different screenplay writers for the four Miss Marple episodes:
Pocket Full of Rye: Kevin Elyot
Murder is Easy: Stephen Churchett
They Do it With Mirrors: Paul Rutman
Why Didn't They Ask Evans: Patrick Barlow
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Coolabi is here: http://www.coolabi.com/about/
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I searched a bit and found many Agatha Christie discussion sites on the Internet where most people who post in the discussions have negative reactions to the changes to the Christie stories. Of course, it seems likely that many people who post usually do so when their reaction is negative rather than agreeing with something.
I found, at the PBS Mystery discussion website, the following "response from PBS" regarding the changes to the Miss Marple series that a viewer had complained about:
http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=59332
"Thank you for your interest in Masterpiece Theatre/MYSTERY!
We are sorry to hear that you were disappointed by the recent Miss Marple episodes. We have received many letters regarding the latest Miss Marple, and while some agree with you, an equal number are quite pleased by the productions. It's a difficult task to produce programming that all will enjoy; we sincerely hope that our next production will be more to your liking.
Please rest assured your comments have been forwarded to the appropriate person.
Also, we hope that the following will be of interest:
The British company Chorion owns the majority of Agatha Christie's brand and estate. For a time there was a moratorium on productions of Christie's work; Chorion wanted to see how it could be revised to better suit an audience of the 21st century. We now see the new Miss Marples.
Significantly, Mathew Prichard (Agatha Christie's only grandson), the chairman of Agatha Christie Ltd. (owned by Chorion), is fully in support of the changes made. He has said, "The rejacketing of her books and new adaptations of Poirot and Marple ... have all ensured that the magic of her storytelling continues to reach a contemporary audience and that she continues to be recognised as the undisputed 'Queen of Crime'."
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I wonder if it is true overall that an "equal number" of people are sending positive messages about the productions. They may be positive about some aspects of the production. I wonder about the scripts...
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Marcie: ;)
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I totally agree there were too many characters in the episode " They Do It with Mirrors " to keep track of comfortably.
I was totally confused by the sequence of the plot for a period of time .
Christie seems to focus on family secrets as a springboard to the plot . Also seen in the previous episode
Not having read any of her books and trying to follow the TV presentations is that typical ( Family Secrets ) of her writing?
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There certainly seems to be some inconsistency among the various Christies. I truly disliked Murder with Mirrors, but have just finished watching (finally) Cat Among the Pigeons and thorougly enjoyed it, and felt that they stuck pretty close to the script. The changes that they did make seemed to be done as adaptation necessities, time constraints, etc.
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I think I found a way to enjoy the Miss Marple mysteries. Read the book first then give yourself the task ,while watching the TV show, of counting how many changes you find . So far this last one, They do it with Mirrors,wins the prize. They changed so much that I stopped counting at 15 and said to myself" Make believe this is just a mystery, related, in some way to the original book. Then I stopped fussing.
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Thanks, MARCIE. Well, we can't blame it all on one guy, or even one team.
They all had the same type of changes, tho', so we must suppose the writers
were given thorough instuctions as to what was wanted.
It's apparent, from the response you got from Masterpiece Theatre, that
Chorion was responsible for 'modernizing' the Christie stories. I can't help
but wonder if those who were 'quite pleased' had also read the books.
Yes, JACKIE, I had a look at that, too, out of curiousity. It looks as
though Coolabi has been primarily involved in childrens' programs in the
past. Now it appears they want to branch out into mysteries. From the news
item I read, they are really stretching their resources to branch out like
this. It will be interesting to see what they do with the properties.
JUDE: :D
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It's possible this particular story is not easy to film in the first place. I'm watching the Joan Hickson version and it's awful, and I am her biggest fan. It's absolutely awful. They play trumpets when Christopher comes and goes in the car, and they play hoedown music when Walter appears, it's almost as if there are so many characters that the director feared nobody could tell them apart hence the cowboy music (look it's the Yank) and the Important Man music while Christopher who ended up shot strode around importantly, jumping out of private jets and stomping up stairs, ridiculous. Walter was totally AWFUL, I mean it's unreal. The worst actual production of it I have seen, but I have not seen Geraldine McEwan's! It's the supporting cast. The scenery is gorgeous and period...but....
Just nothing like the other Hicksons... I wonder if this was the last one HIckson did, if so I can see why, never saw such unflattering photography, just millions of characters, you have the feeling that you have stumbled into somebody's family reunion nightmare, awful thing. Nothing makes sense?
I do like the locked room type of mystery tho.
For some reason tho once it was announced somebody was trying to poison Carrie Louise I got interested despite myself, so instead of throwing it into the corner I'll watch the rest tomorrow. I wish I could see the new one!! I missed it and don't know when it repeats here but it can't be any worse. I do have the book, tho, I think I'll read the first two or three chapters to see what Christie described and how she treated Trumpet Man. I have a feeling she made sense of it. Maybe the movie will pick up. It's got Jean Simmons in it, for pete's sake!
I think I'll read Come Tell Me How You Live, vintage Christie, to get this taste out of my mouth also.
So maybe in these new productions they thought they were making improvements in the old version, the book's and the previous films.
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Ginny, I do think that the mysteries with many characters are difficult to film in only 90 minutes. Can you view the recent version at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html
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I tried before and Firefox seems to lack some kind of plug in or something which I can't download. (I have tried). Explorer's "Add Ons" are disabled and it won't allow me to enable them. It's a bummer not to be able to see these. Maybe Netscape is still available and I can download it! I'll give it my best, am dying with curiosity now I've read all these posts, but reading Christie again is worth any new version anyway, it's a great discussion. :)
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I watched the Mirrors program last night on my computer, chapter by chapter while working outside in the garden for breaks. I enjoyed it, but in a "campy" sort of way. Certainly nothing to take seriously.
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Ginny, I do think that the mysteries with many characters are difficult to film in only 90 minutes. Can you view the recent version at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html
Thanks, Marcie.
That is a great link. I wish I had seen it sooner to review the first Christie we watched.
There are some good links to other pages about Christie.
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Oh, my! Trumpets and hoedown music? It's almost as if the director
were trying to turn the whole thing into a farce. I can't imagine anyone
doing that in a serious mystery presentation.
We have "Why Didn't They Ask Evans?" coming up next. I remember
that as a story that did an especially good job of keeping me puzzled. I'm
looking forward to re-reading it (the 3rd time, I think) to see if my sleuthing
skills have improved at all.
According to the introductory blurb, "Miss Marple joins them.." I love
Miss Marple, but I somewhat resent their sticking her in where she
doesn't belong, just to attract us Miss Marple fans. I wonder who will
be playing the 'socialite'?
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Ginny, What plug-in is Firefox telling you it needs? I have very little problem with viewing anything with Firefox. Have you tried looking for the plug-in at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/ . Sometimes, I think when you download with their "oh, gee you need this" and they give you a button to download box, it is actually going out to an IE version. Just a guess. I have problems with that sometimes too. That is why I go check the Mozilla site or the plug-in maker's site (like Adobe).
There should be a way to enable the add-on feature for IE, but I couldn't tell you what. I don't use the thing. As for Netscape, they merged with AOL some time back. While I still have a Netscape email address, I am not sure they have a Netscape browser anymore. I think I remember something about AOL not supporting it anymore. I'll have to look into it.
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Frybabe, it was something for Real Player, it said it needed that plug in but none was available on the internet, they are sorry. :) And I do see Netscape is toast, but it just occurred to me I can watch it on one of the laptops, so I'll do that tomorrow so I can compare them. But I'm reading the book which is so much more understandable, I think Retired asked about the difference in the book and the movie?
First off she establishes in the book right from the start, a pretty clear foundation not only for the main two women, Jane Marple and Ruth Rydock, but the relationships all around which make sense in the book. There's a nice Cast of Characters in the front of the book and who they are, along with a diagram of the house, and some nice touches, like the one in which Ruth Van Rydock says to Jane Marple,
Do you think most people would guess, Jane, that you and I are practically the same age?"
(this is a question unsatisfactorily raised in the movie and explained by Miss Marple being some kind of a governess).
Miss Marple responded loyally,
"Not for a moment. I'm sure, " she said reassuringly. "I'm afraid, you know, that I look every minute of my age!"
Miss Marple was white-haired, with a soft, pink and white , wrinkled face and innocent, china blue eyes. She looked a very sweet old lady. Nobody would have called Mrs. Van Rydock a sweet old lady.
It's just little things, which the reader can relate to, in responding to Mrs. Rydock's feeling of premonition, Miss Marple recounts sitting behind somebody at church when she had a premonition which turned out to be true, involving mirrors, actually. I like the book.
So so far as the Hickson goes with the music, it's pretty much parallel with the plot of the book, that is the big plot moves, but lacking the explanations. I guess they think we'd get them from the music. Can't wait to meet Mr. Trumpet and Mr. Hoedown now in the book now that I know more about who I have met.
Babi, I don't know why they have inserted Miss Marple into books she did not appear in, I'd have thought they'd have a fertile field in all the stories written without having to make her up.
Still reading, will finish the Hickson and watch the PBS tomorrow.
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Ginny, the PBS program can be played using Windows Player or Quicktime also. Maybe you can change your default preferences in IE from Real Player to one of these other programs. I don't have a Windows computer right now and I can't recall exactly how to do that.
I agree with all of you who are enjoying reading the books. I'm reading The Boomerang Clue (Why Didn't They ask Evans) right now. It's got a lot of humorous dialog. I'm laughing quite a bit.
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One of the things I noticed about the book, They Do It With Mirrors, is the biased (bigotted?) remarks about the Italians and the Americans. I suppose that this was a common portrayal or feeling of quite a few people back then (and now?).
I don't remember the author's name offhand, but if any of you have read the old Charlie Chan books, you will have noticed the distinct racism/bigotry of the time period against Orientals in general and Chinese in particular. It is a offensive to me, but it portrays the general feelings of the time period.
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Frybabe, I think you are right, I noticed also there were other references as well. I remember that a well known title of Christie's changed to reflect a more PC modern understanding of things as well.
I did finish the book and the Hickson version, which picked up considerably, last night. I thought, Marcie, that there were some differences in the book and that version, but I agree with you it sort of followed the plot pretty well, verbatim in some places, liberties in others. Still, as you said, pretty faithful. I think this one is one of the weakest I have seen of film productions tho, can't wait to view the PBS, have tried what you suggested. I think my old "corrupted" according to HP computer is ready to be replaced.
I thought the book was superior to the film, the plotting more involved and intricate, the references to "mirrors" much more pronounced, and that it made a lot of sense. It's also not one of her best books, but I liked it that the characters themselves in the book were confused by the situation at StonyGates if that's the name, and the emphasis and film time were not on the auxiliary cast but the principals. Lots of "aha" explanations including the book revealed that Christopher was Mildred's brother, and Alex in the book was killed. The Bishop also appeared in the book as trustee.
Can't wait to see what PBS has made of it, what fun this entire enterprise is! It's a great thing to discuss it here. I have not read Christie in years.
One interesting thing about the Hickson version is that the rivalry which the Inspector and Miss Marple had, to her amusement, which the Hickson movies really carried out well, some humor in the production, was not represented in this particular book, a different inspector, entirely. Inspector did not do magic tricks in the book. It appears every filmmaker has taken some liberties.
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I think is it a rather common thread in English literature, the insular
attitude of the English toward the non-English. They are completely impartial
in their assumption of British superiority. ;) I have no idea how prevalent
that may or may not be now.
Some new elements in the story did not make much sense to me.
What was the point of the 'drowning' scene? I saw no purpose to it
at all, unless it was simply to demonstrate Lewis' devotion to Carrie.
Anyone else have an idea as to what that was all about?
I will be leaving this afternoon with my older daughter for a weekend
in Baton Rouge with my son and his fiance'. I should be able to get in
some time on the computer while I'm there, but a great deal will depend
on what they have planned. We will be back Sunday night; you'll hardly
notice I'm gone.
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Enjoy your time away with your family Babi.
This has really been a great discussion and certainly got me to reading Christie again and I am glad that I have done that.
Looking forward to the next production although I am not trying to read the book at this time.
Joan Grimes
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I should probably mention that while I may not like the attitudes of the writers or their characters, this is how they were written. I do not like people revising works to make them currently PC or worse banning books because they do not fit today's attitudes. I do however, acknowledge that we don't want to perpetuate some of these behaviors and attitudes. I just don't want to lose sight of the fact of how similar or different they may have been. Who was it that said, "Those who do not know History, are doomed to repeat it"?
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I think you are right, Babi!
Well said, Joan Grimes, and I agree totally with you, it's wonderful to be able to be reading Christie again, that's a great benefit of this.
Margie, also well said! I agree with you.
Unfortunately, today seems to be a day of "NO!" hahahaa I hooked up my brand new mini to the satellite, all went well, no, you can't view it, even in Windows Media, a plug in is required, not available, manual download not available, went to the website and it turns out it needs an APPLE application, which is available for Windows at $29.99. I debated, but after reading your own reports of the PBS films I think I'll pass.
Since I have something else I need to do on Sunday night, I guess I'lll enjoy the books and the previous films and your great comments on the new series.
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Ginny, I brought up the PBS site and clicked on the video to see what is what. Mine comes up right in the website rather than a separate box. It is bringing up Adobe's Quicktime. The Quicktime Player is FREE. Here is the link to the Adobe site. If you want do anything like making your own videos and uploading them, then they charge for that extra programming. In that case you would be buying Quicktime Pro which is $29.99.
It is a little hard to troubleshoot from long distance. I hope this works for you this time. BTW, your operating system is Windows XP correct?
These days I mostly use the Quicktime or Windows Media. I used to use Real Player but dropped it more than a year ago. Quicktime is handy if you want to look at stuff off the NASA sites. They do some wonderful animations and such of deep space events and they use Quicktime.
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Yeah QuickTime and XP. Quick Time is the one originally requesting the plug in. It comes up in the box but only will play the sound not the picture. Not to worry, it's OK, from what you have all said I'm not missing anything and I'm really enjoying the books.
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Maybe if you install the latest version of Quicktime (again if you already have it), it might solve the problem. Here is another site with the free version:
http://download.cnet.com/Apple-QuickTime/3000-2139_4-10002208.html
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Frybabe and Marcie, you are both geniuses! (Genii?) THAT one worked, cross your fingers, Wildblue is having problems in this area today ("known outages in your area") but I can hear AND see snatches of it, oh JOY! (is that a FIRE in chapter 1?!?)
A FIRE? Or do I have the wrong show? I'll find out in the morning.
Oh joy. Tomorrow when I can stay on a half minute I can enjoy it too!
Thank you! YAHOO!
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LOL, Ginny. Yes, it opens with a FIRE. I thought it was the wrong episode, too, but it does make sense to the plot.
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;D You are welcome, Ginny!
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hahaha Ok I've watched it. I enjoyed the PBS production, which of course is nothing like the book or the Hickson. Perhaps they should actually give credit to Christie and then branch out with a new lady detective, McKenzie is way too young, tho she does a good job in her part, but it's...something new. A hybrid. The situation and names are somewhat the same.
In the book Lewis is the Prison Reform Idealist, not Carrie Louise, and was cooking the books with the aid of a couple of his former graduates. As said previously there was no fire in the book.
Johnny Restarick is dead, so he could hardly return nor have an affair with Miss Bellamer. Nor was he killed by the scenery falling. One brother, Stephen Restarick, is missing, the other, Alex Restarick, and Ernie Gregg were killed by the scenery falling in the book.
Mildred was resentful about Pippa, who does not appear in this film, or the Hickson. Miss Not Appearing in this Film. She was Gina's mother, in the book, not the woman who was a poisoner, Katherine Elsworth. That bit did not make any sense, why would Carrie Louise raise the daughter of a poisoner, did the movie say? I missed a small part of Chapter 1 when the satellite went down. .
I don't know what to say about the modern production? It's just so different. It's enjoyable, with less characters than either the book or the Hickson. I think they should make up a new detective for McKenzie and write a series for her and forget trying to squeeze her in to this peg.
I took the drowning of Edgar, and Lewis to be intended as a comparison with the first rescue of Lewis Serricold. Lewis, on the first occasion, swam out to rescue Carrie Louise ( a scene not in the book). Carrie Louise, somehow, tho not being able to swim well, had swum in fact a good way out. Lewis showed thus his devotion to his wife and real son?
In the book, Edgar was trapped by oncoming police as he tried to escape, so he turned to the lake, got in an "old punt," and started out but it was rotten and Lewis went in to save him. This is told in a letter from Gina to the character played by Joan Collins in the PBS, so apparently she was not on the scene as shown on PBS.
So it's quite different.
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Ginny, yes, there were many differences in this production and you've done well outlining them.
I think that the fact of Carrie Louise adopting the daughter of a "criminal" was described as sort of an ultimate experiment in her work of rehabilitation.
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I'm at my son's house, grabbing the computer for a while. The layout it dfiferent here; different server, I suppose.
I notice that Christie has used the 'letter after the story' more than once, as a sort of prologue or confirmation.
It works just fine, but it might not if she did it too often. We find in twice in this set of six.
Tonight is the last film, and again we will see Miss Marple plumped down iinto a story that originally saw nothing
of her. well, we shal see what we shall see, to borrow an old saw. An old rusty saw, at that.
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;) , Babi
I'm looking forward to the episode tonight. I enjoyed the book. I'm wondering how they will incorporate Miss Marple since it's Frankie and Bobby who do all of the sleuthing in the book.
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Well, I'm still playing catch-up -- am in the middle of "Murder is Easy" and am going crazy trying to correlate who's on screen with who is in the book. Is this the film that everyone agreed has too many characters? They kept Luke in the the film. Why have Miss Marple?
Tonight I'm going to watch or tape "Evans," and maybe read the book a month from now.
I notice that Christie has used the 'letter after the story' more than once, as a sort of prologue or confirmation. It works just fine, but it might not if she did it too often. We find in twice in this set of six.
Babi, you are a sharp one. I would have missed that, had you not pointed it out. So we have the Gladys letter and ?????????? Hmmm.
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Well, that was a fine mishmash! Even if I hadn't read the book and brought some expectations to the film, I
would have found it horribly patchy and confusing. My son tried watching it with me, but he gave up, shaking
his head and shrugging. (I am still at his house. I was unable to travel when it came time to leave, so my daughter returned without me. I'll be here a couple more days. Don't ask!)
Back to "Why didn't they ask Evans", the writers seem to have thrown in a half dozen extra plots, all of which sounded so familiar I suspect they were borrowed. I thought the result was awful. Were they trying for a farce? Another Evans, who also gets murdered.? Apparently 'modernizing' a Miss Marple story in this series meant throwing in some form of perversion.
Okay, I think it is fairly evident what I thought of the writing on this one. Also, I didn't think the actress who played 'Frankie' Derwent succeeded in capturing the character of avery upper-class and wealthy young woman. Certainly didn't dress like one. I did like Bobbie Jones. The two children, introduced by the writers, were awful and the police 'Commander' was definitely played for farce.
I suppose there must have been something to say on the positive side, but for the presernt I'll have to leave it to
someone else to say it. :-\
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Once again, did not watch the whole film last night ... I agree it was a mish-mash :-\
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/masterpiecehdg.jpg)
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/images/christie.jpg)
Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery! (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/index.html))
Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
Thank you for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_cat.jpg) | June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/poirot_mcginty.jpg) | June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html |
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_pocketfullofrye.jpg) | July 5, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye
A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. View the episode online through July 19 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_murderiseasy.jpg) | July 12, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Murder is Easy (the book is sometimes called EASY TO KILL)
Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. View the episode online through July 26 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_withmirrors.jpg) | July 19, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors (the book is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS)
During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars. View the episode online through August 2 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html. | | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/masterpiece/mysterychristy/marple_askevans.jpg) | July 26, 2009 at 9pm
Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans? (the book is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE)
The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue. |
Discussion Leader: Babi (Ssbjs3@aol.com )
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JoanG, the book is quite entertaining. I borrowed a copy from our public library. If you have the opportunity to do so, I think it would be worthwhile. The interplay between Bobby and Frankie is humorous.
I agree that the acting/directing of Frankie, and her costumes, didn't capture her character.
I had read the book but wasn't trying to compare it with the TV production. I thought the TV episode was difficult to follow in the beginning.
The various plots were crazy. It seemed like a soap opera. None of the characters was very sympathetic. Bobby was okay. Babi, I too was wondering if they were trying to be farcical.
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I'm glad to hear that last night's production made little sense to those of you who have NOT read the book lately. I did read it - and spent most of the time watching, trying to find Christie's story - and trying to follow what I was seeing on the screen. It made absolutely no sense to me.What was all that stuff about the snake? Sylvia, the mommy of those two kids written into the story - And Moira, the nurse - and the new Evans...with the maid Evans thrown in at the end as an afterthought. It seems that someone thought it was not a good idea to change Evans after all.
I have to say this - this was not Agatha Christie's work brought to the screen. It was someone else's work - trying to emulate her.
Immediately following the new Masterpiece Mystery "Agatha Christie" mysteries, our PBS station has been running older Masterpiece Christie stories - with Geraldine McEwan. These are what I expected to see in these new Masterpiece Mysteries. The plot is easy to follow, though still full of mystery. And Geraldine McEwan is believable in the role. I feel sorry for the new Ms. Marple -she has a such a murky plot to act through - how could she portray a believable detective? Why, there isn't even a Miss Marple in the Christie story - those two kids, Bobby and Franky fumble through - and eventually solve the mystery - without Miss Marple.
How do we let Masterpiece know how we feel about this? After all, THEY pointed us to the books - surely they knew we would see the liberties taken in the rewriting?
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I think there are (at least) two main issues. One is does the TV production closely follow the original Christie book. The other is, if there are changes, are they for the better or at least equal to the book. I wouldn't necessarily object to the writers changing even the plot of the episode, if they did it well. I didn't like the sensational/soap opera type of motivations and plot elements that were changed. They made me have little regard for the characters.
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I sat and watched the whole 1-1/2 hours and at the end thought it was a complete waste of time. At first I thought they were going for camp and trying to be funny. Then I realized it was just bad, bad writing and definitely was not Christie. What were the producers thinking? Where are they getting these "writers"? All these crazy plots and sick, dysfunctional families are supposed to modernize the stories and bring them up to date? I don't think so.
But once more the clothes, scenery and cars were all beautiful. Very, very good photography. The actors by and large did as well as they could with the script.
I am glad "Six by Agatha" is over. Next week they have Sgt. Lewis again.
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I agree, Evelyn, with all that you say. The production values of the Miss Marple series were great...stylish and attractive. It's only the "content" that was mostly awful :-)
I enjoyed the Inspector Morris series and the first Inspector Lewis series. I hope Lewis II lives up to them.
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I agree with you who found "Why didn't they Ask Evans " confusing, almost farcical in its confusing plot. What would Agatha have said if she had seen this version of her work?
I guess she would have said "Who Murdeed the Plot" or "Why Didn't They Read the Book".
In happier news a new book about Christie has just been released;
"Duchess of Death' by Richard Hack publ: Phoenix Books.
It seems Christie referred to herself as a'"sausage machine". It seems she had a great sense of humor.
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Well, I taped Evans last night and the captions were a mish mash, but from what you all say, I didn't miss much. -- I'll just look forward to reading the book, sometime.
It's a shame. On the whole, I've found the performances a bit draggy, and just not very good. The one exception was Cat Among the Pigeons, with David Suchet as Poirot. It did not stray far from the book, and was enjoyable and decently paced. I did not care for Julia McKenzie in any of them, prefer Geraldine McEwan, or of course, Joan Hickson. We complained the last time PBS put on a Christie series (with McEwan) because of the ridiculous changes the writers made. (I didn't watch Mrs. McGinty because I'd just seen a horrible Margaret Rutherford version -- PBS isn't the only one to muck up Christie).
So what is it with the Christies that puts PBS off-track? I haven't read the Wallendars, but they were good shows to watch. Likewise the Linleys, very loosely based on E. George, but not likely to raise cain among those who haven't read the books. At least they didn't come across as being written in junior high English. And some things are simply excellent, like Bleak House. Guess it all boils down to the writers.
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It looks like Masterpiece Mystery and Masterpiece "classics" or whatever they call it are organized by totally different people.
I also thought Bleak House was absolutely wonderful, and was inspired to re-read the book! Little Dorritt , also by Dickens, was pretty good as well.
I agree AC would have hated many of these recent films. Thanks for the heads up on the one last night which I didn't finish; now I won't bother.
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What would Agatha have said if she had seen this version of her work?
I guess she would have said "Who Murdeed the Plot" or "Why Didn't They Read the Book".
Very funny, Jude! ;)
Thanks for the information about the book "Duchess of Death."
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There were things in it that seem familar to me but from different Christie novels or maybe even other English novels that I have read.
That was just the impression I got too, JOANGRIMES. The whole plot seemed to be a hobo stew, ...throw in everything!
I wonder if this whole thing was a quick down-and-dirty job by Chorion, to make a few more bucks off the Christie
property before selling it. They'll be lucky if they don't have to lower their asking price after this batch. Though I agree with PEDLN that the Poirot films were much better done than the Miss Marple.
I got a grin from those lines, too, JUDE. Thanks for lightening the scene. :D
I don't know how much control Masterpiece Theatre or Masterpiece Mystery have over the productions. They may
simply contract with the producers for so many films from a given author, with no say as to the writers, plot changes or actors. Anybody know more about how that works?
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I don't know, Babi - I could ask the lovely lady who arranged for us to receive the Wallander and the real Christie novels. She just might answer. As soon as I get my laptop up and running - should be any day now...I'll have more than the allotted half hour the library allows.
We learned one important thing here - that Agatha Christie was not losing it - that the recent productions were not her work at all...a "hobo stew" perhaps, ;) - but not the tight mysteries we were expecting. And we would never have known this if not reading the books along side the film versions.
Retired, was it you who asked for a set of the real Christie novels? Someone did - and I will send mine on to you if you email me your home address. And if it wasn't Retired, please speak up - I think it will be an eye opener seeing what A. Christie really wrote!
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Here's a question - for those who saw the PBS production - but probably more for those of you who just read the book - Why the second title - the Boomerang Clue? I can't get this out of my head - but see no reason why the Evans title was renamed Boomerang in some titles. Would be grateful if anyone can come up with a reason and I can free up some gray matter in my poor overloaded brain.
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Joan, I was wondering about that myself. I think the "boomerang" could refer to the fact that Evans (whom Bobby and Frankie were trying to identify) turns out to be in Bobby's own home at the vicarage. His search to solve the mystery leads him back to where he first began.
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That makes perfect sense, Marcie. Thanks! I can stop thinking about that now.
Well, did you guess who dun it? I don't think you could predict that it was Roger - and Moira from the PBS production - I could be wrong. But Agatha Christie made two things clear in the book - that Bobby and Frankie were going to be together at the end...AND Bobby was attracted to Moira and Frankie to Roger. So the only thing to do - make Moira and Roger the bad guys and that would leave Bobbie and Frankie together. Simple!
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LOL, Joan. Yes, the "rivals" had to bumped off to make way for Bobby and Frankie.
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I just reread "A Pocketful of Rye". To my amazement the plot became technicolor as I read it. The indoor and outdoor settings were much clearer than before I saw the PBS version. So if we wipe away the confusing plots and subplots that the writers invented we are left with a wonderful picture of the backdrop of all the action.Some of the faces stayed with me too.
Watching the PBS version wasn't a waste of time after all.
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That's great, Jude! I have to admit that there is much to enjoy in the productions....even if some of the plot features and motivations are crazy. ::)
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What a disappointment. I believe PBS is better than this. Why do they continually change the stories of Agatha Christie when they were so good as written by her. The Geraldine McEwan and the Julia McKenzie versions of Miss Marple are disasters not only their performances, but the stories as well. The Joan Hickson portrayal of Miss Marple was believable, although some of these stories were changed, too. I hope PBS does a better job of the Inspector Lewis series.
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I can see where some aspects of Christie's stories might not do as well on
film, DEAN. She did have a large number of characters...and thus more potential suspects...in her books. They added interest to the books, but could
be confusing in a film as being really irrelevant to the development of the plot.
The time constraints had to be considered too, in making a film. A number of
scenes could be cut without damaging the story line.
But completely changing the characters, the plot, the motives....that was
really too much. Some bad decisions were made, IMO, in producing this
particular series.
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Well, we'll always have Wallander, right? Dean, I have to defend Geraldine McEwen's Miss Marple - because her eyes twinkle with good humor.
It will be interesting to view and compare Colin Dexter's Inspector Morse with PBS Inspector Lewis - beginning on August 16. Have you ever read any of Colin Dexter's novels?
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If you have more comments about Agatha Christie please post in this discussion here before we close out this one.
We have a new discussion for the Inspector Lewis series here: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=707.msg31519#msg31519
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Last chance for any choice observations you would like to make on the much
lamented new 'Miss Marple' series. I think we must blame the writers for these
misdeeds. The quality of Masterpiece Theatre productions is so firmly fixed in
my opinion, that I cannot believe them to be responsible.
Do sign up for the Inspector Morse series. Marcie has a link for us, bless her!
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The Boomerang Clue was the title that the book had when first published by Christie.
Why Didn't They Ask Evans was added when the first TV production on the Mobil Showcase Network aired it in '83-'84. Remember Peter Ustinov, the MC.
In the book the clue "Why didn't they ask Evans" finally returned to significance, when Evans was identified as the cook or housekeeper in the Vicarage where Bobby's father was the Vicar.