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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
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WELCOME!
Isn't this a bright beginning to a lively discussion of nonfiction books.
Since this new site (and isn't it great!) began several nonfiction books have been discussed and I'll just name a few.......
Indian Summer
This Republic of Suffering
The Worst Hard Time
Barbarians at the Gate
In the Flame
I know there have been more, but that's all I can think of now.
SO, DO COME IN AND TELL US WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN READING AND WHY YOU LIKED IT.
WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT FOR A BOOK DISCUSSION?
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I’m so pleased to seen this site open. I’m more of a lurker than a participant. I usually have 4- 5 titles going at one time on various topics/people. That way I can read what appeals to me at the moment and since they are a variety of topics I don’t get them confused. I am a plodder when it comes to nonfiction.
I keep one book in the car so I always have something with me if I’m detained somewhere. I haven’t picked this year’s new title yet. Left over from 2008, the kitchen table right now hosts An American Sphinx: the character of Thomas Jefferson by Joseph Ellis for breakfast reading.
Next to my reading recliner, also left over from 2008, I am in the beginning of The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam.
Next week my two new treats will arrive - Lincoln: President Elect: Abraham Lincoln and the Great Secession Winter 1860-1861 by Harold Holzer; and, Alphabet Juice: The Energies, Gists, and Spirits of Letters, Words, and Combinations Thereof; Their Roots, Bones, Innards, Piths, Pips, and Secret Parts, ... With Examples of Their Usage Foul and Savory by Roy Blount. The former will join the Halberstam next to my reading recliner, and latter with probably take up residence in the small reading room.
I read along in all of the books and as I finish one I start something new. Then about Thanksgiving I try to finish up all that I started. This December I finished: An Army at Dawn: the war in North Africa, 1942-1943, Vol. 1 of the Liberation Trilogy by Rick Atkinson; Jacob’s Well: a case for rethinking family history by Joseph A. Amato; and, Everything is Miscellaneous: The Power of the New Digital Disorder by David Weinberger
I don't do well with discussion groups on a specific book because I'm still rebelling against all the years of book reports, book talks, book reviews and having to read on a schedule. Since I've retired I enjoy reading what I want, when I want, for as long as I want and not being held accountable. I do check in nearly everyday to see what others think about the books they are reading and to get ideas for new titles to read.
For years my highlight of the week was Brian Lamb's Booknotes. I can't tell you how many books I bought and read because of that program.
I found The Worst Hard Time riveting. It isn't often I find a nonfiction book that I can't put down.
Time to let someone else talk! Thanks again for this site. Looking forward to many happy days. Mary
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The book, THE WORST HARD TIME by Timothy Egan, an award winning book, was good reading. I don't think any of us realize the extent of this man-made disaster and the impact it had on the whole western are of the United States; and still does to this day. This book portrays a few people, their life, their way of living and their desperation during the dust bowl.
Where in the United States could these people, many of whom had been homesteaders living on free promised lands by the United States Government and the railroads, go as the depression was in full swing at the time.
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On a visit to B&N yesterday I bought the book STALIN'S CHILDREN by Owen Matthews. Looks promising.
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HELLO MARY!
GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE!
We discussed THE AMERICAN SPHINX some years ago on the old Seniornet site and it was very good as I remember.
What a feast you bring! I'm writing titles that you gave us on a pad I keep by the computer and I, too, always watched Brian Lamb's Booknotes. Now we have so many programs about books to watch and isn't it grand.
And, of course, best of all we have this site!
I find a month to discuss a book is adequate for me. I try to decide if I should read the whole book first or just the assigned chapters and even though I have been trying to decide this for years now, I have come to no conclusion!
Discussing books is my way of relaxing even though I can't do it in a recliner! Hahaha My computer chair is comfortable though and I am SO THANKFUL I live in an age that makes this all possible; this communication while at home and at my own speed!
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Marking my spot so I can return to find new possibilities.
I have just finished The Age of American Unreason by Susan Jacoby. It is a library book but I may buy my own copy so I can underline and make marginal notes, commentaries and faces expressing my opinion.
During the 60's and most of the 70's, I was living on a mountaintop in Colorado and have often thought I completely missed experiencing the social changes of that era. So I enjoy finding books that offer a description of the cause and effect of events during that time period.
Next on my non-fiction is Too Close To The Sun, a memoir by Curtis Roosevelt, grandson of FDR and Eleanor.
I can see that my list of Books To Read is going to grow by leaps and bounds from suggestions I see here. Thank you, each and every one.
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I am just finishing John Grogans book "The Longest Trip Home". It is about his growing up Catholic so that may not be of interest to all. I enjoyed it. Not as much as "Marley and Me" though.
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Hi to everyone and Happy New Year!
I've been reading non-fiction, more than fiction, over the past few months, for various reasons.
My current (re-read), by one of my favorite authors is:
Washington's Crossing by David Hackett Fischer (2006).
The author is an American history professor emeritus at Brandeis University, and I think I've read all of his books, including the most recent one: Champlain's Dream. (hidden by husband, cannot find it to give a fly-leaf description).
The latter is, in my opinion, much more difficult and perhaps not the best choice for a readers' discussion, but the former is about one period of the American Revolutionary War, and it really would be excellent for a book discussion!
Lacking archives, I'm not sure if this group has already done it ... have we ... or have we ever done anything by this excellent author?
As some one says, let's talk ... ;D
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I have Washington's Crossing, haven't read it yet. Dewey, came as a Christmas Present. Looking forward to reading it soon.
My next book to read however will be the SciFi book, Ender's Game (Card). I promised someone, when we were over on the old SeniorNet, that I would let her know what I thought of it.
Meanwhile, I am still SLOWLY reading through Liberal Fascism (Goldberg) and Lost Christianities (Ehrman). Both are non-fiction.
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I had posted this orginally in "the library" but i'll put it here, as it's specifically a non-fiction book.
I picked up a book from the library's "new non-fiction" shelf and am finding it intriguing.
It's title is An Illuminated Life: Belle da Costa Greene's Journey from Prejudice to Privilege. Belle Greene was born Belle Marian Greener. Her claim to fame is that she became at a young age (early 20's) the librarian of J. P. Morgan's private library and eventually was the buyer and curator for his rare book/manuscript collection. She had a "dusky" complexion and as an adult stated that it was a result of Portugese ancestors, but her father was Richard Greener, the first person of mixed European/African-American ancestry to attend Harvard and who was the first Af-American professional staff person as Librarian at the University of South Carolina in the late 19th century. The U of SC was actually integrated after the Civil War and became re-segregated during the 1880's. Belle had a fascinating life, being a librarian at Princeton University during the first decade of the 20th century. While there she met J.P. Morgan's nephew, who was also a librarian at Princeton and he recommended her to his uncle. As Morgan's librarian she became a part of NYC society, and the rare book community of the world, in the first half of the 20th century, an intriguing time and place of history.....................jean
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I don't usually read non-fiction, mostly because I read so much material for my job, but some of the titles here sound fascinating. The latest non-fiction book I looked at was Fill 'er Up: The Glory Days of Wisconsin Gas Stations. Now doesn't that sound fascinating? Actually, it was - brought back a lot of memories. I loaned it to my sister, so will finish reading it later. Remember the old "filling stations"?
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Hi, all. I just found this site. I enjoy non fiction. Am an history buff. I have particular interest in the period from the Civil War to the present. The book I am now reading is called: "The Forgotten Man". It is about the Great Depression, and the people who were alive at that time. It is quite interesting.
I am down sick with a virus. My mind isn't as clear as usual. But, I think the author is named Amity Sch.......
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I started listening(I never use lurk :)) to non-fiction in Seniornet a year or so before it died. I really enjoyed some of the discussions even though I didn't have the books. I've been reading Politician's Bio's - Kevin Rudd and Peter Costello - only relevant to other Australians here.
The book that overwhelmed me was a little volume by a French journalist, Life Laid Bare, I think it was, a matter of fact account by survivors of the Rwandan massacre. If it had been written as a dramatic, heartwrenching account, I think it would have been easier to put down.These survivors told their stories so simply and matter of factly. I'd look up and think--this is mind-blowing, they're talking about the horrible, violent, deaths of their loved ones. Then to have to go back and live and work beside their killers!
It made me feel ashamed to be a westerner, to tell the truth.
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HEY, CALLIE! Thanks for your post. I read TOO CLOSE TO THE SUN, and it's a new look at the Roosevelts - I liked it. I think all the children, grandchildren of former presidents should write a book and tell us frankly what it was like to be so close the sun.
THE AGE OF AMERICAN UNREASON is new to me; sounds good and is on my list!
HELLO JERI! Have you seen the movie Marley and Me yet. It is breaking records I hear. I am one of the few who has not read the book yet, but I will in time. It's so funny so they tell me.
MIPPY! Thanks for your post. No we haven't discussed a book by Fischer; but we have done a discussion on Washington and the Revolutionary War. At the moment, I can't think of the title; however, we could discuss Washington and that war numerous times and never complete a discussion. I'll look it up at the Library; I saw it at B&N recently but my time was limited. I hate that! I could spend hours there and at the Library also! My favorite things to do!
JEAN, Belle was an unusual lady at a unusual time in our history. Sounds like a wonderful book!
Oh, indeed, NL, I remember fillling stations. "Filler her up!" "Check the oil, too" All without getting out of the car. My husband used to say that women would never pump their own gas, HA!
SHEILA, hope you get well soon, keep posting and we'll keep your mind busy! It's does wonders for the body!
OCTAVIA! Your comment about being ashamed to be a westerner is a feeling I often get when I read such books! We are so fortunate, aren't we? And I wonder, often, how I can help!
I have the book CALL ME TED waiting to be read and when he was interviewed lately on BookTV he talked about his gift of a billion to the United Nations for humanitarian purposes and I think about making monies given accountable? Where do they go? To the common, poor people or the wealthy who can so eaily corrupt the system.
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How about thinking of a book we might want to discuss?
Perhaps March might be a good month to do it? We'll decide in Februry so when you read one you think might appeal to the group, I'll put it in the heading
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Greetings -
I just watched Brian Lamb interview Robert Caro on Q & A and am again motivated to read a book because I was impressed with the author's approach to writing. Since I've had The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York sitting on a shelf for some time, I've decided tonight is a good night to start it. The over 1100 pages means it'll be a while before it's finished. At least my timing is good - since I watch little on TV except sports (football, baseball & NASCAR) and now that football is almost over, and NASCAR and baseball don't start for some time yet I can make some real inroads all of my reading - although I do watch a lot of games and read at the same time - sound off and the advantage of replay. I don't think you'll be hearing much from me for a while but I'll be having fun (most of the time - I'm getting plenty of exercise with this winter's over abundance of snow). Mary
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Ella
Yes I have seen the movie and I have read the book. Enjoyed both.
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Ella - come to New Jersey - we don't have to pump our gas.......YET! ..... I know people who say they will not move out of the state, just for that reason......i assume that's a bit of an exaggeration................but, for me, not much of one...............LOL
There have been so many great non-fiction books practically jumping out of the publishing house windows in the last couple of years, it's hard to think of ONE that we should discuss. I'd like to read the Roosevelt book, especially if it has a different focus than all the others i've read .................. jean
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Hello: I read non-fiction now and again but not as a regular diet but I 'lurk' about the non-fiction occasionally to see what everyone's reading. Such a wealth of material on offer it's hard to choose....
Octavia Here we are again. My beloved one has almost finished the Costello Memoirs - He was enjoying it so much we gave it to Sydneysider son in his Xmas stocking - Haven't heard how he likes it or even whether he's started it or not. Not sure whether I'll read it or not - my stack is huge at the moment. What was the Rudd bio like?
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I have just finished reading "Outliers" by Malcolm Galdwell and found it very thought provoking. Having read his two previous books "Blink" and "The Tipping Point" this one did not disappoint. Gladwell writes about issues that seldom are considered in the mix of why some people are successful and some not, such as the culture into which you were born, when you were born and most of all access.
The next book on my reading list is "The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court" by Jeffrey Toobin. I would love to hear comments from anyone who has read this book.
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Hi, Dean ! Nice post !
Outliers by Gladwell is quite a good read. It was a good fill-in book for me during many hours spent in waiting rooms, recently.
I don't agree with everything he says, but that's par for the course.
I have just ordered Blink!
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For some reason, I don’t read many non-fiction books. But when I do, I usually enjoy them. The most recent was The Worst Hard Time, that Ella spoke of, about the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression. Two that I’d like to read are The Outliers and Three Cups of Tea, about Greg Mortenson and his efforts to build schools in developing countries. And as a former Wisconsinite, I guess Fill ‘Er Up has to be on that list. It sounds like fun.
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WE HAVE ENOUGH SUGGESTIONS FOR THE WHOLE YEAR, A READER'S PARADISE RIGHT HERE.
But what about a book to discuss among us, possibly for March? What do you think?
A friend of mine finished A TEAM OF RIVALS by Doris Goodwin; all of you have no doubt heard of it???? Or read it? She said it was one of the best books she has ever read.
The problem is it has 900 some pages, Wow! We could take two months!!! We have never discussed a book about Lincoln to my knowledge. Libraries are full of this book, it's very popular.
http://catalog.columbuslibrary.org/
I am just beginning the book STALIN'S CHILDREN: Three Generations of Love, War, and Survival by Owen Matthews. Looks very good: click on these links to read more about the books.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Stalins-Children/Owen-Matthews/e/9780802717146/?itm=2
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THE OUTLIERS book sounds very good:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Outliers/Malcolm-Gladwell/e/9780316017923/?itm=1
Thanks, DEAN, for the post and let us know how you like THE NINE. I've heard about it and want to read it when I get through with all the ones I have waiting.
And thank you, PEDLIN, for your suggestions.
How to decide what to read next?
CUBFAN, I have that huge book - the one about Robert Moses - sitting in my book shelves, someday, someday.................. It looks so very good and I love books that tell us how cities were formed and great men, etc. I'll get to it!
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Have you read Outliers?
I don't see how it would work well as a discussion, as each separate section or essay stands alone. But perhaps this group likes
that kind of collection of essays.
Moreover, there is some question in my mind about whether the "scientific" material in the book is rigorous science or not.
However, I did enjoy (most) of the book, and found it to be thought-provoking.
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I would love to read "Team of Rivals" by Doris Kearns Goodwin. I always enjoy hearing her interviewed on tv. She makes History so interesting.
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HATS! Where have you been? I don't think I have seen you on our new Book site and I am so glad you found us.
Well, any other comments about TEAM OF RIVALS by Doris Kearns Goodwin?
I'm going to look up in B&N to see what a used copy (which is usually like new) costs. I'll be back to tell you.
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Team of Rivals sounds good to me............jean
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Hi Hats, glad you are here. Welcome home.
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Hi Ella and Ginger,
It does feel like being back home. I am glad to be with both of you again. We have gotten a lot of rain in the area. This morning we lost power for a couple of hours.
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I vote for "Team of Rivals". I love Doris Kearns Goodwin. The time period had more impact on me, than any other period in our history. I have the book, but have not cracked it yet. I guess I was waiting for a Senior discussion.
I am still down with a virus. My dil has it now, and went to the dr. today. She was told it is either the flu, or something she ate. I hope that none of you get it.
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THREE people are interested in discussing TEAM OF RIVALS!
Any others?
Let's see - we have HATS, JEAN AND SHEILA.
Oh, a good group! Wonderful! And SHEILA, I hope you get over that flu soon. Did you get a flu shot which is supposed to prevent such awful incidents?
I got a used hardcover book from B&N (online) for $14, not bad considering the size of this one; the shipping costs are $3. I have to have a copy I can write in when I am in a discussion; otherwise I forget it all later.
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I too enjoyed Fill er up, it was fun to read.
Team of Rivals sounds interesting.
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For a discussion starting in March, may I please be included as a maybe since family obligations ... both good (grand-baby due in April) and less good (illness in the family) ... may take me away from
my computer during the upcoming months.
I think I'll buy "Rivals" whether or not I can participate, so a big thanks to all who suggested it, to Ella, and others.
And p.s. off the subject: I also got a flu shot because of another new baby in the family, who we hope will be visiting us within the month. The darling new granddaughter is now 4 weeks old!
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I want to check out "Team of Rivals" first, but if I like its looks, I'm interested.
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Hey there, all you gorgeous readers! So glad to see that everyone is up to reading and discussing what ever you decide on.
Did I miss the description of "Rivals"??? I have only read one of Goodwin's books, entitled "Wait 'til Next Year" which was about her growing up with the game of baseball. Wonderful read! I would bet that Cubfan would enjoy that one.
I just finished a fiction discussion so will be looking in here for titles that I can put on my list for non-fiction.
So good to find old friends who were on the old SN site. What a crash---or was it a dump??? :-\
Hello to Hats, PatH, Mippy, Gingee, Ella, Gumtree, Mabel, etc etc! And I found Macou on SL too but maybe in the fiction section. This is like a family reunion.
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I highly recomment Doris Kearns Goodwin's
"No Ordinary Time" for any of you who haven't read it..........it's about the Roosevelt's (FDR and ER) during the war years -that's WWII. She packs in so much information and yet it reads almost like a novel............jean
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Am still down with this virus. Yes, I did get my flu shot. My doctor tells me that without the shot, I might die with a virus.
So, I keep getting both, the shot, and the flu!
I am feeling better. Not as achy, cough has diminished, but am dizzy, and weak. All I want to do is sleep. So, not much time for reading.
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I read "No Ordinary Time" when it came out, and I agree--it's a really good read.
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Hi Sheila,
My mother and my sister both got the flu shot twice and the flu got them both times. They both finally said no to the shot. They were both over 50 at the time they received the shot. I have been getting the shot for 20 years and, so far, no bad results.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: Ella Gibbons (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com)
Marking a spot. :D
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Good morning!
I've ordered the book "Rivals" and it was only $12.50 on Amazon, as it is now out in paperback! So I'm looking forward to a great, long read!
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Greetings -
I'm fascinated with Caro's The Power Broker. It's going to take quite a while to get through.
Mippy - I too like D. H. Fischer and enjoyed Washington's Crossing. I also very much like his Albion's Seed.
AdoAnnie - Thanks for the suggestion about Doris Goodwin's Wait 'til Next Year. I had forgotten about that one. I have always enjoyed listening to her talk about growing up as a Red Sox fan, and definitely liked both of her books No Ordinary Time, and Team of Rivals.
I know that Team of Rivals was long but it really read quickly and smoothly. I find it interesting that both Lincoln and Washington picked who they thought were best for the job not who were going to agree with him or each other. Washington spent quite a bit of time trying to keep peace in his cabinet. There's a fine line between when things are accomplished in spite of conflict and when conflict derails everything. It takes a strong leader to keep things in check.
Have a good reading weekend everyone. Sounds like most of us have stay inside and read weather.
Mary
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OH, THIS IS SHAPING UP!
We already have Hat, Jean and Sheila interested in discussing TEAM OF RIVALS; now possibly we may have four more interested. Please let me know as soon as possible.
If I am reading correctly JANICE, MIPPY PATh, AND CUBFAN (the latter having already read it) may join in the discussion.
What a good group that would be! Off to a great start for the New Year, our New Site!
As someone mentioned, Goodwin's books read like fiction, like a novel and I'm eagerly awaiting my book in the mail. Shall I start it? Or wait? Big decisions, hahahaaaa
HELLO ANN! Join us!
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MARY, what a good picture! You look so sprite and you brighten up the whole page! Thanks for putting it here.
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Ella, I had a look at the book today, and I'm definitely in. I needed to check first because of my experience with "The Island at the Center of the World". The subject was interesting to me, Marni led the discussion in an exciting way, the other people kept up a lively and interesting discussion, but I found the book so unreadable I dropped out. That's not going to happen here.
I didn't buy it yet, because I want the paperback, which my B & N didn't have.
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Ella, I did add my photo, but don't know why it wound up at the top of this discussion. ???
Anyhow, we're hoping to here Doris Kearns Goodwin speak on Tuesday. She's going to give a talk here, and we plan to attend. It is free, but is first-come for for the limited seating. I hope we can get there in time to get a seat.
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Like your picture, also MaryZ - nice to put a face to our "competition." :) Maybe i'll try to see if i can get my mug on my posts..............I hope you get to see Goodwin, she's so interesting when she talks about her subjects..........jean
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My computer crashed last week and it took a while for the TW techies to show up. However, the computer hiatus gave me an opportunity to prepare for a forthcoming book discussion at my local library, where I'm scheduled to speak about Afghan culture in connection with Greg Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea. I'm not sure how much our local Southern folks know about Central Asia and the community work that Mortenson has done abroad for many years, but I'll soon find out. I'm taking a Samovar, some small Persian tea cups, beautiful hand-woven material for the center table and a host of stories about some of my own experiences with Afghan culture.
Did the former discussion of A Thousand Splendid Suns already end? I lost track somewhere along the way when I had earlier computer problems and then the big crash.
My husband arrives from Egypt on the 29th and has promised to bring some new books about his home culture. I watched a wonderful PBS program a few weeks ago about Middle Eastern and North African (Egyptian) cultures coming together with American musical culture. It was terrific and I really enjoyed the pleasure that all the musicians experienced getting to know each other, sing and play their instruments together.
And a BIG THANKS to all for this wonderful site where we can once again bring our reading ideas to share.
Mahlia
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Oh, good, Pat! IT'S GOING TO BE A GOOD DISCUSSION!
I'm talking about an upcoming book we are considering discussing; one of Doris Kearns Goodwin's books - TEAM OF RIVALS. Shall we set a date for March? The problem with that is I am thinking of a little trip with my sister then in which we will be gone 2-3 weeks. We'll see. We can always make it in April. Something to look forward to and the days, the weeks, go by so fast.
PERSIAN! Happy to see you here. I just finished a very good book about Russia wherein a samovar was mentioned so here is a description of one: Incidentally, the book was a nonfiction, almost fictional in story and in the writing, and was titled STALIN'S CHILDREN by Owen Matthews.
Samovar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samovar)
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Has anybody heard from Marne? She's usually here, hope she is o.k.............Ella it sounds like it's going to be a good discussion..............o.k. I got my picture up, but it is kind of eerie, i didn't expect it to show up everywhere................LOL.............
Mahlia - do you remember the title of that PBS program. It sounds like something i'd like to see, but i haven't seen anything like that listed on our station....................jean
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I'm in for "A Team of Rivals". I loved "No Ordinary Time" and I've heard Goodwin discuss "Rivals" on television. Doesn't it seem as if our president-elect is influenced by it as well.
If the style is like "No Ordinary Time", we won't have the trouble we did with "Island". Nothing like!!
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Island, Joan??? I have a poor memory, what discussion was that?
Here is a review of TEAM OF RIVALS by the New York Times (B&N online)
- James M. McPherson
More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. Having previously offered fresh insights into Lyndon Johnson, the Kennedys and Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt, Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln and leading members of his cabinet that will appeal to experts as well as to those whose knowledge of Lincoln is an amalgam of high school history and popular mythology.
I haven't received my book in the mail yet, but, on the one hand, 944 pages are daunting, not only to a reader, but in a book discussion. Can we make it through to the end?
On the other hand, who better to discuss; particularly as one of you pointed out Obama is patterning his image on Lincoln. His policies, however, reflect FDR, don't you think?
The commentators, after a romance with the charismatic politician, are becoming a bit more cynical about his projected administration.
[/b][/i]
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CubFan: I always watch Q & A on C-Span and watched the interesting interview with Robert Caro.
I also watched the interview with the author, Greg Mortenson, of "Three Cups of Tea". It's not only a timely but very interesting book about one man's work in building schools for girls in Pakistan and Afghanistan. He calls it promoting peace one school at a time. In the interview the author mentioned that Gen. Petreaus had read his book and wrote him with comments.
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HELLO JEAN! I wish I had seen that interview. I usually watch BookTV including the Q&A when I can, but I missed the Robert Caro.
THREE CUPS OF TEA has been mentioned several places, I believe, on our new site here; I must look it over. Has anyone read it?
I note that TEAM OF RIVALS is actually only 700 some pages as the notes, index, etc. are numerous in the back of the book. Does that make it more doable?
MARY, what did you think of the Goodwin lecture? Was it awesome? Hahahaaaa What new stuff did you learn? Shall we discuss the book?
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We went to hear historian Doris Kearns Goodwin (Team of Rivals) speak tonight. The talk was due to start at 7, and the publicity said that it would first-come/first-served seating. Well, okay - we'll get there early, but no problem. The place won't be full. Right! We got there at 6:20, and people were lined up in the lobby of the UTC Fine Arts Building. It turned out that the theater where she was speaking was already full, and they were getting ready to open seating in the other theater in the Center, with a live TV feed. Goodwin is a great speaker (yes, Ella, awesome), with delightful anecdotes about the presidents she's been close to (beginning with LBJ). And the part of her talk about Lincoln and his Team was excellent. Hearing her personal stories about how she got interested in history was good, too. She certainly made Team sounds like a good book to read.
If we go to any of the other talks in this series (3 more), we'll go even earlier - and take a book to read while we wait.
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Hi there,
I was not ill long but it was weird! And its gone now!
I have not been able to look at "Rivals" yet but will try to get to the library tomorrow.
Ella,
We did have a great discussion of "The Island at the Center of the World" back about three years ago. I had forgotten that Marnie lead it.
"Three Cups of Tea" by Greg Mortensen is a wonderful bio about his raising money for building schools for girls in Afghanistan/Pakistan and helping to get all the materials up into those steep mountains. He even has school children raising money for those schools. Amazing story and quite an easy read.
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Hi MaryZ,
I didn't know Doris Kearns Goodwin appeared at UTC. I bet it was crowded. Is this a series? Thank you for the Art invitation. I will not be in town after this Sunday. My first girl grandbaby is expected to arrive that Monday in Memphis. We will be out of town for a few days.
Ella,
I am excited about "Team of Rivals." Nine hundred pages??? That should take us five years and counting. :D
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I am reading "Dreams from My Father." I am nearing the five hundred page mark. I am really enjoying the book.
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Hello ANN! Good luck in trying to find a copy of TEAM OF RIVALS in our Library. Although they own 41 copies, there are no copies available for checkout. However, there is a waiting list - UNBELIEVABLE. That is one reason I decided to buy a copy; another is that we may discuss the book here and I need it by my side.
Thanks, MARY, for your report on Goodwin. I have heard her on TV; probably on BookTV? But it seems to me I also heard her on a panel discussion either of Lincoln or past presidents. At any rate, she is very good as you said and I can imagine how full that auditorium was with her listed as a speaker!
I know she must have spent years on each of her books and is a noted historian.
HATS! I've read both of Obama's books and both are excellent. He writes as well as he speaks and now on with his presidency!
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Another view of "Rivals" from the LATimes:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-pinsker18-2008nov18,0,1360359.story
I am not sure that I want to read this book but will try to locate a copy somewhere in downtown Gahanna.
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Hats, congratulations on your first granddaughter-to-be. You're going to have such a good time - but I'll miss getting to see you.
Yes, the Goodwin lecture was part of a series - there are four in all. I can't remember the names right now, though. I'm sure the folks at UTC could tell you, though.
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That's an interesting contrast between Goodwin and Pinsker about Lincoln's cabinet............but that's what makes history so interesting to me. When i was teaching i tried to give the students sources or examples of how our historical figures were viewed in much the same way today's political figures are - some people loved them, some people hate them, so that the students wouldn't think that we used to have "heroes", but that we have none today.
I felt they needed to see the flaws and the different perceptions of the historical figures..........they seemed to like history better that way and found it more interesting than the way they had been taught in public school.
Annie, thanks for posting that link, we will have to keep it in mind if we have a discussion of the book................jean
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YES, THANKS, ANN! What an interesting book review. Let me just quote a couple of things that whet my appetite for reading the book:
Lincoln's Cabinet was no team. His rivals proved to be uneven as subordinates. Some were capable despite their personal disloyalty, yet others were simply disastrous.
Only Seward endured throughout the Civil War.
Chase was the defiant rival
Atty. Gen. Edward Bates was the disgusted rival.
All those quotes are from the Los Angeles Times book review.
I love history and I want to find out more about these men and Lincoln. Already we see parallels to Obama's team - his cabinet - don't you?
I have not got my book yet although it may be in my mailbox which I haven't checked for two days!
It's so very cold here, zero and below! I must go out today to fill prescriptions but I won't stay out too long! Perhaps my book is in my mailbox?
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I HAVE MY BOOK, AND I AM INSPIRED!!!
Is that the correct word? I've read the INTRO and Chapter One and it is very fascinating; hard to stop there!
But I want to read it along with the rest of you - shall we say MARCH? I'll check schedules and let you know.
One thing that puzzles me is where AMBITION comes from? Why some have it, others don't. It isn't money that drives politicians, what is it? I'll just quote this one sentence from Goodwin's Intro:
"Without the march of events that led to the Civil War, Lincoln still would have been a good man, but most likely would never have been publicly recognized as a great man. It was history that gave him the oppotunity....."
History and the march of events.
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I don't want to confuse any readers. I'm reading the large print edition of "Dreams from My Father" by Barack Obama. So, my book probably has more pages than a book written in regular print. All of the regular prints were checked out. I ended up with a large print. This is fine with me.
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Hello everyone! It's so wonderful to have this group again.
Mabel, I really like the way you taught history to your students. I wish I'd had a good history teacher in high school. It's a wonder I passed the U.S. History class I was so bored. It was not until I got to college and had a very good professor who loved his subject that I found how interesting history is.
Ella, please add me to the group that will be reading TEAM OF RIVALS.
I put it on hold at my library.
I saw the movie SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE yesterday. Fantastic. Especially the photography of India -- from the slums to the Taj Mahal--just fabulous. Whoever the photographer was, they deserve an Oscar! I'm goad I saw it in a theater, as it wouldn't be nearly as good on a small TV screen.
Which reminds me, PBS is doing a special on India, in our Southern California area anyway, on Monday night, Jan. 19, at 9 pm Pacific Time. About the arrival of Islam in India -- which led to the rise of the Moghal Empire. Also are showing some of the cities, including Agra, the home of the Taj Mahal.
Marge
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MARGE: the India special this Sunday is the last in a series. The first two were wonderful visually, although confusing and superficial Historically. I look forward to this one.
I heard Goodwin talk on TV about "Team" when it came out, and have wanted to read it ever since.This discussion is just what I needed to spur me on.
History in school -- sigh! When I was in HS it was memorizing a bunch of names and dates that meant nothing! Cheers to all GOOD history teachers!
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WE HAVE ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN PEOPLE INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING GOODWIN'S BOOK, but we haven't worked out a schedule yet.
I urge you not to read the entire book until we do. Let's read it together!
I'm going to look up our PBS schedule to see what's on for this weekend. Thank you for the post, Marge, and, yes, certainly I will be so happy to include you in our Lincoln discussion.
I've been thinking about Lincoln's ambition to be president, Obama's ambition for the job, all the presidents. It has to be ego that propels them, don't you think.
The belief that they are the one, possibly the only one, that can heal the nation, that can solve the problem that exists.
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Ella - I think having the power to make changes - whatever changes they want to make, Dick Cheney, the Bushes, Bill Clinton, Reagan, etc., included - is a huge motivator for politicians. There isn't any where else, except in the Congress or in the Administraion, where you can have a universal influence in how events might happen, or systems might work, or policies might be carried out. And then there's that "leader of the free world" thing if you are going for the presidency................what title is better than that? That's where the ego comes in...................jean
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It's hard for me to imagine someone wanting to be President, but thankfully there are some good people who want it, even if it is ego that propels them.
I'm sorry I missed the first two episodes of the PBS special on India, but I'll watch the one coming up Monday, and they'll probably repeat them.
Speaking of presidents, Barack Obama will be on CSpan's BookTV program this weekend talking about his book THE AUDACITY OF HOPE. I haven't read that yet.
Also, Joe Biden will be on Book TV discussing his book PROMISES TO KEEP. I did read that and really liked it, -- one of the best autobiographies I've read. Especially liked the part about how the the Judicial Committee with Biden as chairman, was instrumental in keeping Judge Bork off the Supreme Court. (Bork will also be on Book TV this weekend.) Was fascinated by Biden's telling of his visit to Yugoslavia with Averell Harriman and their talk with Tito, as well as his his visits to Bosnia and Afghanistan.
Marge
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Ella, count me in, if this is going to be a discussion about presidential ambitions. And isn't there an irony in that? Hasn't it always been a cardinal rule among would-be officeholders not to seem overly ambitious?
Everybody is reading TEAM OF RIVALS it seems. Many, perhaps on the strength of Obama's recommendation. It's probably a must read in government circles, and for all those of us who wish him well. If the new president finds inspiration in the life and career of that 'great' and 'good' presidential predecessor doesn't that create hopeful expectations for the thrust of his own administration?
It seems mean to suggest, as Mathew Pinsker does in his L.A. Review (Ann's link in #60), that 'Lincoln's model for cabinet building should stand more as a cautionary tale than as a leadership manual.'
Who's got it wrong here? Obama, or the historian, Goodwin? Perhaps the criticism is simply professional envy. Imagine, writing a presidential bio inspiring a president-elect who doesn't mind telling the world what a good read it is.
I gave up on my reserve on a library copy, and went out today and bought the book. It sure looks very readable. In the meantime I had looked around the house for anything on Lincoln, and soon found myself absorbed in Gore Vidal's LINCOLN. Vidal is regarded highly, I believe, for historical accuracy in his novels. Here's an incident which may be relevant to Ella's question about ambition.
The new president is exploring the office area in the White House with his two young aides, Hay and Nicolay. But I'll quote directly:
'Lincoln picked up the lamp from the table, then he opened the connectiong door into the President's office. The first thing that they saw clearly in the gloom was a painting of Andrew Jackson over the white marble fireplace. "Well," said Lincoln, neutrally, "I guess we'll leave old Andy where he is."
'..."What about a painting of General Washington, sir?" Hay ran his finger round the frame of Jackson's picture, and collected an inch of dust. "Or is he too Virginian?"
' "No, the father of our country is just right. Only I might look too ambitious, moving him there." '
What a curious thing to say. But speaking about cautionary tales. Wasn't the outgoing president's farewell address the other night just that? Beware being overtaken by the rush of events.
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I read Obama's book "The Audacity of Hope". I consider it a serious book about policy and could be boring for some people, but I enjoyed it. But then, I'm one of those people who enjoys looking at the panel discussions on C-Span. He had an interesting section about his work and travel with Republican Sen. Luger regarding nuclear material. His respect and fondness for Sen. Luger clearly came through. It does give you an insight to how practical he is. As my dad would have said, he has a lot of "common sense". The last chapter is mostly about Michelle and her family and their marriage and it was very interesting.
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Yes, I'm afraid "Audacity of Hope" might be over my head. After I finished "Dreams from My Father," it was hard to think what to read next. I have started "Night" by Elie Wiesel. This book is very, very powerful. It's not easy to read about what this man, Elie Wiesel, and his family lived through. Still, like all parts of History I feel it's important. No wonder Elie Wiesel won The Nobel Peace Prize.
There are so many of you I would like to send a wave and hello. I might miss names. Just know I'm saying good morning.
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HATS! I've read both of Obama's books and both are excellent. He writes as well as he speaks and now on with his presidency! (Ella)
Congratulations! I might take a peek at "Audacity of Hope."
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Good morning, Hats.
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Good morning, PatH. I've missed you, JoanK and all.
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JONATHAN! Good to see you here.
"a rule among would-be officeholders not to seem overly ambitious?" I smiled at that phrase. Some hide that ambition better than others. However, we do need those that do succeed in "getting there" and putting their lives, both political and private, in the public domain. We could name a few - all of us could name a few we would rather not have speak for us again, but I admire them! I do! I wouldn't want the politician's job, would any of you?
Much better, if wishes could be granted, to be a historian; one such as Goodwin. As you said, JONATHAN, how great to write a book that inspired a president.
There is an editorial in our local paper by Leonard Pitts (Miami Herald) in which he states that "Obama would be a shock to Lincoln" and I quote:
"How could he not? He (Lincoln) was a 19th-century white man who famously said in 1858 that 'there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which...will forever forbid the two races living together upon terms of social and political equality.'"
How shallow our comprehension of history is, says the author. We should remember this as we read about Lincoln.
Thank God for Obama whose election and administration will disprove the words of one of greatest presidents.
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Our discussion may not be until March. Please remember this before you start the book; place it in on your shelf until then. We are attempting to schedule discussions so that all genres may be represented in a fair and equal manner.
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In quoting the above journalist, perhaps it is only right to quote other statements in the same article:
"We would be a very different nation, a lesser nation, without his (Lincoln) political genius, his dogged faith in the unsundered Union, his refusal to accept less than Union, even when haunted by reversals and setbacks that would have broken anyone else. No, the argument is not about Lincoln's greatness. Rather, it is about our tendency to cherish untextured myths that affirm our preferred narratives.." - Leonard Pits, Jr.
For Lincoln's speech in which the above statement is made, click here:
Lincoln's Debate of 1858 (http://www.bartleby.com/251/41.html)
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I just finished a really interesting book, CHINA ROAD; THE JOURNEY INTO THE FUTURE OF A RISING POWER by Rob Gifford. Gifford had been a PBS correspondent from China for several years. He decided to travel on China's new highway from Shanghai, 3000 miles across China, along their old Silk Road, and through the Gobi Desert, to the border of one of the "-stan" countries. Fascinating book. He speaks good Chinese, and talked with people in all the towns where he stopped, and told some of the history of the different areas. Very interesting to hear the people's comments on their country. Some of the Muslim/Chinese people in the west and the Tibetan people are sad to see their way of life gradually disappearing, as their children are being taught the Chinese language and culture. China has a lot to worry about about to try to keep their huge country together with many ethnic groups and different languages. They have as many people as live in North and South America and Europe, combined! He talks about whether he feels China will ever become a democracy -- and feels it would take a long time, if ever. After reading this, I wanted to visit China, and would, were I younger. It would be a good book for discussion.
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Thanks for the recommendation, marjifay. China Road sounds like a good one.
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The China book sounds very promising. I will be looking at my library for that one.
I also want to mention another title, "Higher: A Historic Race To the Sky and The Making of a City" by Neal Bascomb. I read this before our BOOKS visit to NYC in September and I searched out the skyscrapers in the book. The story of the race to build the tallest building in the world during the roaring 20's is worth the read.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
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Thanks, MARGE, for that recommendation! I want to read the book also; we all need to keep our eyes on China, OH, GOSH, we owe them! And I think they are beginning to lose faith in America's ability to pay back??? What do you think?
Hello Ann!
And now back to LINCOLN for just a few minutes. I watched Meet the Press this morning and there was a panel discussion on the crises facing Obama and how he might best handle them. And everyone talked of Lincoln.
Phrases such as the "emotional intelligence" of Lincoln and the "push to succeed" that Stephen Douglas gave Lincoln, to name a few, were bandied about. Why is it inevitable that Obama reminds people of Lincoln?
Of course, Lincoln was facing a crisis, but of such a different milieu. In 1860 the country was literally falling apart, states seceding from the union, etc.
I would think that comparison with FDR, who faced not only a crisis overseas, but an economic crises at home would be more in tune to what Obama faces.
What do you think?
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Since we have a while before we will be reading A Team of Rivals, do you think D.K. Goodwin might come on and talk to us in March? I don't know how those th ings have been arranged in the past, but i think she might enjoy hearing our questions and comments...........we're probably a different demographic than she has talked to so far..................jean
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I'm definitely in! By ordering "Team of Rivals" and "The Guernsey Potato Peel Society" at the same time from Amazon, i squaked over the limit to get free shipping.
WELCOME, JONATHAN!! Good to see you again!
HATS: I also read "Night". A good book, but hard to read. I'll never forget it.
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Good, JOAN! Keep the TEAM OF RIVALS ready to open come March and in the meantime we can continue to review other books and here might be a good place to discuss the political scene as it unfolds this coming week. We've discussed so many former presidents and their administrations over the years that we have been on the Internet.
I am sure that most of you know that Seniornet was the first online book club?
Have any of you been to an inauguration in person?
How many do you remember and why?
HATS, I read NIGHT years ago and I, too, remember it very well. You will never forget the horrors, the world will never forget.
How many watched the Lincoln Memorial Musical today? I watched it on HBO and some of it was very moving; it is hard not to "tear-up" (actually almost sob!) when you see pictures of soldiers kissing babies and returning home to families. But, Wow! What a scene, those huge TV screens on the Mall, have they ever had those before????
I hope Obama is storing up these good moments for ahead of him are some very difficult problems and, undoubtedly, there will be mistakes made along the way.
Lincoln said "We here hold the power and bear the responsibility."
JEAN, I can try to capture the attention of Goodwin! Wouldn't that be something?
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I emailed 2 contacts on this site:
http://www.doriskearnsgoodwin.com/team-of-rivals.php
A YouTube interview with Doris Kearns Goodwin about this book:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N3eU2UsYio
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'Good to see you again.'
Thanks, Joan. Surely that was the feeling of all of us as this site became available and we could renew our pleasant exchanges in recommending good reading. Over the years the tips I received from all you avid readers, changed, transformed my own reading habits. And great was the pleasure to hear that someone else was reading something I was engrossed in myself. Like:
KEPLER'S WITCH: An Astronomer's Discovery of Cosmic Order Amid Religious War, Political Intrigue, and the Heresy Trial of His Mother.
Remember that one, Joan? I just love the subtitle. A lot of comfort in that 'cosmic order', while wondering about the mother/son relationship.
Caro's THE POWER BROKER has been mentiioned numerous times here. A great book. I'm half way through it myself. I'm sure even Machiavelli could learn a thing or two about political machinations. I would like to recommend a companion volume to Caro's book. Just out recently.
ROBERT MOSES AND THE MODERN CITY: The transformation of New York. Edited by Hilary Ballon and Kenneth T. Jackson. Moses' work is beautifully illustrated and is commented on by a number of good critical essays.
I must have a look at CHINA ROAD. There certainly are a lot questions raised by the sudden emergence of this potentially big player on the world's stage. What do they make of it in Beijing? That turmoil on their far western border. Which prompts me to mention a fascinating book:
DESCENT INTO CHAOS: The United States and the Failure of Nation Building in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asia. By Ahmed Rashid. Read this to learn where all those billions went. And nothing is being built, seemingly. Geopolitical pieces scattered about, waiting to be picked up, by somebody.
I'm far too impatient to have TEAM OF RIVALS in the house, not to get into it. And it only adds to the interest to look at the front page of my newspaper. A huge, towering Lincoln looming over the president-elect and his wife as they descend the stairs at the Lincoln Memorial. I think you're right, Ella, in wondering about the Obama preoccupation with his distinguished predecessor.
The Goodwin history? It's very entertaining.
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Didn't we mention reading "Three Cups of Tea" by Greg Mortensen??? Last week, maybe.
Well, I turned on the news today and across the bottom of the screen was the story of the Taliban bombing the schools in NW Pakistan as part of their demand that girls not be educated. They have bombed 170 schools and ordered all girls' schools to close. They really don't want anyone to be educated. The people who live in these places have until Jan 15th to follow the orders given by the Taliban. Terrorists telling simple folks what to do!
The area that Greg Mortensen built girls' schools in was this area. He must be devastated!
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STOP READING NOW, JONATHAN!!! Stop reading TEAM OF RIVALS until we all get into it or you will forget it. We want your instant responses! That's an order, hahahaaaa
All those books you recommended sounded great! I have never heard of Kepler, but have the Caro book. For now, I am ignoring all those books about the Bush administration and the machinations of his policies; where the money went, the blame for the wars in Iraq, Afgahanistan. I think we need distance from it all to see it clearly and I may or may not live to read the truth of it all, which will not bother one whit!
How do the rest of you feel about the books about the Bush administration; there are tons of them!
Ann, thanks for the post; I know the news is just devastating and those poor women and young girls! The world is a sad place, but hasn't it always been?
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The decision to just present one book a month on this new site is a wise one and the Book Club Online is doing the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Society in February. We are a fairly new site, even though all, or most all of us, have been former participants on the old Seniornet site.
Consequently, please keep your book TEAM OF RIVALS in abeyance (oh, I love that word!) and we will be opening them MARCH lst!
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One more important notice, and one that I am very grateful for, pleased about, shouting-happy about, is that PATH is going to be the co-leader on our discussion of TEAM OF RIVALS!
In this way, if one or the other of us needs to be away, or God forbid that we get ill, there will be one here to post the heading and inform you of the next chapters - tell you when to turn the page, so to speak - and I am so thankful.
CLAP YOUR HANDS, RAISE YOUR GLASS, A TOAST TO PAT!
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Cheers to Pat! Cheers to Obama and his administration and family! Cheers to the United States! It feels almost euphoric to watch the tv and what is going on in D.C. I can't recall another event that brought us all together in a happy/positive way. I think this is a unique day in the United States, and it's wonderful. So much togetherness, so many good feelings, so much hope, even w/ the dire straits we seem to be in! And MLK's birthday coming today and the inauguration being tomorrow is almost improbable.
The concert yesterday - which is still playing on HBO - reminded me of some of the festivities of our bicentennial or the millenium, but even better. Pete Seeger, who in the 50's couldn't get a job because he and the Weavers had been labeled by McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover as subversives, in his 80's (?) singing on that stage for the president of the United States - i loved it!!! Yes we can change. It's all just so inspiring and exciting and wonderful........................
I've never been to an inaugural, but my husband and his sister were at the 1963 March to hear the "I have a dream" speech, and my son was at The Million Man March in the 90's, two other big events in D.C............we'll all be together w/ friends tomorrow, and in tears, i'm sure!...............................jean
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Cheers to tomorrow! Although I live only 1 1/2 miles from a Metro stop, I will not be going down tomorrow. The Inauguration in person isn't for the weak-limbed or cold sensitive, and I'm both. I did see the stands at the Capitol, though, when I was downtown 10 days ago.
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Whoopee Goldberg said on "The View" today that she wasn't going to D.C. because she has a special relationship w/ her bathroom and there CANNOT be a line between her and her bathroom ;D...........i saw on the news tonight that they have 1 porta potty for every approximately 400 people that they are expecting - i'm w/ Whoopee, give me a tv, a bathroom w/in 30 ft AND w/ a guranteed roll of toliet paper available! That's good enough for me..............jean
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I'm with Whoopee, too!!
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What did you think of THE SPEECH?
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WOW!!!
Incredibly impressive. Just the right tone. Really well written. My friends and I were just about in tears.
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And Gwen Ifill’s book Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama was published today, Inauguration Day.
Now watching the Inaugural Balls -- if you didn't know them you might say, "what a cute couple. Is it their wedding, their prom? They look so happy and are having such fun."
And then I think, this man has the burdens of the world on his shoulders and we are all expecting him to accomplish so much. When will he look this happy again?
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There were many tears here. We met with friends and our children - dgt, son and DIL - at a friends' house and we had a lot of tears of happiness. .........I've just watched Obama's statement on the rules of transparency in his gov't. I almost have to pinch myself to believe this is happening. It just seems so RIGHT! It's been too many years since i've felt this way about our gov't. I'm so excited about the possibilities for the future. Let's hope this euphoria and cooperation continue - at least for a while, i'm realistic enough to know it can't go on for long. ..................i saw a man, our age, at the inauguration yesterday who had on a "hippies for Obama" button and was doing the "v" sign for "peace." It took me back to the optimism of the mid-60's. That didn't quite work out, so let's hope this period of optimism is more successful..........jean
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PAT, you thought it was a 'WOW" speech.
Gosh, I was disappointed. I was expecting a "we have nothing to fear" or an "Ask Not" speech and I got a lot of neat phrases, but nothing to remember. But he was refreshing to listen to, so well spoken and so well intentioned.
Oh, well, as JEAN expressed - "i'm realistic enough to know it can't go on for long." The hope that he - we - can get us out of wars and debt and make it all better somehow!
Put us back into 2000 maybe? Weren't we in pretty good shape then?
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On the way home from shopping I listened to NPR and they had two authors on; THE FORGOTTEN MAN and THE DEFINING MOMENT (I can't remember the authors' names but those are the books) and both are about the depression.
The topic was whether FDR's policies of government spending shortened or lengthened the depression. The two authors disagreed. Perhaps we should be reading and discussing FDR?
The moderator asked phone-in folks to talk about what they learned in school about the depression.
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HERE IS "WOW!" The new generation - THE INTERNET AND THE GOVERNMENT:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
Will our kids know history better now that they can click it and see it, read it, watch a video, from their computer?
Will we need universities in the future? Did you notice that one of the big commercials yesterday, along with the two big colas, Walmart and Lipitor, was THE UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX online?
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Ella, -- re the Whitehouse.gov websight. Really great! The internet is wonderful. Especially, for me, I love Wikapedia.
However, I'd not want to attend college only via the internet. I loved having discussions with the professor and other students. I think I'd have missed so much not being in an actual classroom.
I thought Obama's speech was just great. I was really surprised to see that he was hard at work today after what must have been a grueling day yesterday and with all those late night inaugural balls. (I wonder if McCain at his age would have been up to all that?)
I loved the ending on the benediction prayer by that old man who had been so active in the civil rights movement. Something about how everyone can get along -- the Browns can stick around, the Yellow can be mellow, the Reds can get ahead, etc. Fun. And I'd like to get a copy of Elizabeth Alexander's poem -- so far I can't find it.
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Transcript of Elizabeth Alexander's inaugural poem
1:25 PM PST, January 20, 2009
The following is a transcript of the inaugural poem recited by Elizabeth Alexander:
Praise song for the day.
Each day we go about our business, walking past each other, catching each others' eyes or not, about to speak or speaking. All about us is noise. All about us is noise and bramble, thorn and din, each one of our ancestors on our tongues. Someone is stitching up a hem, darning a hole in a uniform, patching a tire, repairing the things in need of repair.
Someone is trying to make music somewhere with a pair of wooden spoons on an oil drum with cello, boom box, harmonica, voice.
A woman and her son wait for the bus.
A farmer considers the changing sky. A teacher says, "Take out your pencils. Begin."
We encounter each other in words, words spiny or smooth, whispered or declaimed; words to consider, reconsider.
We cross dirt roads and highways that mark the will of someone and then others who said, "I need to see what's on the other side; I know there's something better down the road."
We need to find a place where we are safe; we walk into that which we cannot yet see.
Say it plain, that many have died for this day. Sing the names of the dead who brought us here, who laid the train tracks, raised the bridges, picked the cotton and the lettuce, built brick by brick the glittering edifices they would then keep clean and work inside of.
Praise song for struggle; praise song for the day. Praise song for every hand-lettered sign, the figuring it out at kitchen tables.
Some live by "Love thy neighbor as thy self." Others by "First do no harm," or "Take no more than you need."
What if the mightiest word is love, love beyond marital, filial, national. Love that casts a widening pool of light. Love with no need to preempt grievance.
In today's sharp sparkle, this winter air, anything can be made, any sentence begun.
On the brink, on the brim, on the cusp -- praise song for walking forward in that light.
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I tho't the speech was great, very practical and down to earth about where we are and what we have to do.............i'm hoping that's the way the Obama administration is going to be.
Cubfan - thanks so much for the copy of the poem. I loved it too. Again everyday people, tho'ts and actions....................it's so great to get away from the lofty statements that then turn out not to be the actions that are being taken by the same people who made the statements...........From the past administration we had so much rhetoric about patriotism and freedom, etc. and then so much destroying of our civil rights and behind-the-doors decisions.............. The ironic thing is that altho everything about the inauguration and the Obama rhetoric has been practical/down to earth/realistic, it has generated an idealism and inspiration for so many people...............have you heard that w/ all those people in D.C. yesterday there was essentially no incidents of crime..........there was just an over all good feeling in the air, the feeling of best of humanity rising into the atmosphere..................hooray!................
Marjifay....I feel the same way about needing to have discussion in my college classes. That's the most fun about going to college.............when i was teaching at the community college, they asked me a couple times to teach an on-line class and i always said, "no thanks, that's not the way i like to teach. I want to know and hear the interactions of the students." ...........................
Ella - i would like to read and discuss the FDR years. The only problem is we'd probably need three months to get thru the 4 administrations..... ;D........let alone his whole life AND Eleanor!................................jean
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Thank you so much for posting Alexander's lovely poem, CubFan.
Jean's words in her post are so true. Say it plain....
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There was considerable comment during the last months of the old non-fiction board on the 1980.s David McCullough Biography of Theodore Roosevelt, "Mornings On Horseback." I was even about to propose its discussion this winter. Since then I have acquired another later Biography (2008) of this ex-President By Aida Donald entitled "Lion in the White House." Has anyone read this book? It is some 100 pages shorter than the McCullough title but aside of this convenience in my judgment I think the McCullough title is still be best general reader biography of the 24th President.
I also have another new biography of another former U.S. President. This one is by Jon Meacham the editor of Newsweek. It is a biography of Andrew Jackson entitled "American Lion." Some of you might remember Meacham as the author of a previous best seller, "Franklin and Winston: An Intimate Portrait of an Epic Friendship." The Andrew Jackson book too would make an interesting discussion. Have any of you seen it or read other books by Jon Meacham?
During the last several months that saw the apparent decline and fall of Seniorsnet I have taken on several new assignments in connection with my work at the local National Historical Park that precludes my participation in any on-line discussion at this time, but possibly later this year subject to the procedure of our new board, I might push for a discussion of one of these books.
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I read Mornings on Horseback many years ago. Wasn't that only part of TR's life? I remember a lot about his young years - mornings on horseback w/ his father when TR suffered from asthma attacks, thus the title. I don't remember where in his life it stopped. Did it continue thruout his life? I remember that i enjoyed it very much...............jean
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Ella,
You're right. I finished "Night." It's an unforgettable book. Thank goodness it's small. I didn't know Night is one of a trilogy by Elie Wiesel.
1.Night
2.Dawn
3.Day
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MaryZ,
Thank you.
AdoAnnie, thanks for the "Team of Rivals" link.
I hate to admit it. I've never read a full biography about Lincoln. I think Jonathan mentioned Gore Vidal's Lincoln. I might try that one. It's Historical Fiction. To pick a nonfiction one, I wouldn't know where to start.
I've always wanted to read a full biography about Thurgood Marshall too. Nothing calls to me to read a book about Hillary Clinton unless she wrote an autobiography. I would like to read "It Takes A Village."
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Years ago I might have read "The Day Lincoln Was Shot" by Bishop. I'm not sure. I think so. Just can't say it for sure.
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I haven't read much about Lincoln either. Am looking forward to reading TEAM OF RIVALS which I just got from the library.
Hats, Hillary Clinton did write her autobiography: LIVING HISTORY, which I read sometime ago and enjoyed. Haven't yet read Bill Clinton's MY LIFE--its over 900 pp. Also want to read FIRST IN HIS CLASS; A BIOGRAPHY OF BILL CLINTON by David Maraniss of the Washington Post who won a Pulitzer for his coverage of Clinton's campaign. A review said you simply can't understand Clinton without Maraniss's analysis of his past. (in case anyone really cares (LOL), altho I do because I've found him to be an interesting character)
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Marifay,
Thanks for that title, "Living History."
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Hats, I own a copy of THURGOOD MARSHALL; AMERICAN REVOLUTIONARY by Juan Williams (author of Eye on the Prize), but I haven't read it. Maybe you've read it. Bought it when I heard Justice Sandra Day O'Connor praise Marshall during an interview on BookTV. Looks like a very interesting book -- maybe I'll pull it out and read it.
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Oh gosh! All the books you've mentioned are ones that i would love to discuss w/ all of you - how much time do we have? ;D
Marjifay - i've always tho't Bill Clinton was a fascinating personality, from a psychological perspective. He's such a bundle of ambiguities, so smart, yet so stupid in his personal life and why is that? I think it's time for me to read First in His Class...................jean
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“However, I'd not want to attend college only via the internet. I loved having discussions with the professor and other students. I think I'd have missed so much not being in an actual classroom.”
I’m not sure how online courses work, MARGE. My daughter taught one in nursing, but it was connected to a university and the students got together now and then and, of course, for exams. I agree a student would miss the socialization that college offers.
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Thanks, CUBFAN, for the poem. It does speak to everyone doesn’t it? “Every day we go about our business” but she ends the poem with a verse about love. I thought it was wonderful.
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JEAN, I smiled at your reference to four months for FDR! You are so right! But I think there has to be a book that condenses it all, isn’t there? We all know his story, though, is there something new to talk about there? What a lady Eleanor was. We discussed a book about her last years on our old Seniornet site. She died at the home of a friend - a doctor she got to know. Actually, it was quite pathetic - I’ll look up the name of the book.
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HELLO HAROLD! Good to see you here. Speaking just for myself, I have read a couple of books about Teddy; I would like to read and discuss the Andrew Jackson book as I don’t know a thing about him. Here is a clickable:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=American+Lion
Looks very good and we look forward to your offering a book for discussion. Meanwhile, we would love for you to participate in our MARCH DISCUSSION - TEAM OF RIVALS by Doris Kearns Goodwin
Have you read it? Whether you have or not, do come in and post!
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Incidentally, if any of you have not read RIVER OF DOUBT about Teddy’s trip down the Amazon, do read it, it’s a great book and shows the depth of Teddy’s character and also his lack of organization!
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HI HATS! No, I haven’t read the others by Elie Wiesel, but now that you mention him, I’ll put that on the list. Thank you!. AND I’M LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR PARATICIPATION IN TEAM OF RIVALS, where we will be looking in depth to Lincoln’s character and qualities that he brought to the presidency. A good book, you’ll enjoy it!
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YES, JEAN, read that book about Clinton and come tell us about it!
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Hi, everyone. I flew home from Ohio, January 13th. It is good to be home! I missed my solitude. On the flight home, I read more of "The Forgotten Man" by Amity Shlaes. I am now half way through this book. I find it fascinating! The author writes that the biggest contributer, to the Great Depression was not the failure of the stock market, but was the banks unwillingness to free up money. That led to home foreclosures, and high unemployment. To my surprise the stock market ranged in the 100s, and went up and down.
I am enjoying the read, and learning so much about those days. I had not known that Wendall Wilkie was the head of a power company that provided electricity to Americans. The TVA project, gave ownership to the government, to build dams, which then provided power to electric companies., and communities. The power company which Wilkie headed, obtained a line to take electric power from TVA. I find this book flows, and is an easy read. She writes in an interesting way.
Sheila
Sheila
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THE FORGOTTEN MAN sounds like an interesting book, Sheila. I've put it on my TBR list. (Sigh--one more)
I think I still have my Wendell Wilkie button from the first grade (I saved everything). I think I just liked the sound of his name because I sure knew nothing about politics then. My parents voted for FDR.
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Marifay,
I haven't read it. If you get a chance to read it, let me know.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: Ella Gibbons (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com)
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Hi, folks. I have definitely decided to give up on reading Abba Eban's autobiography. I loved his "Civilization: A History of the Jews", but the biography simply has too much political detail for me.
At the same time, his descriptions and stories about the key figures of those times has been most interesting and insightful. I plan to keep the book for reference, as it has an extensive index. I can refer to it whenever something comes up re. the 'movers and shakers' of that era.
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As promised I found our archived discussion of Eleanor Roosevelt's last year or two of life and her death. The book is titled KINDRED SOULS and here is Doris K. Goodwin's note about it:
"Kindred Souls is a wonderful love story that opens to public view a fascinating chapter in Eleanor Roosevelt's life. Edna Gurewitsch has recreated Eleanor's last years with such remarkable empathy and such deep intuition that it seems as if Eleanor is alive once more." - Doris Kearns Goodwin
SHEILA, thank you for that review of the book THE FORGOTTEN MAN. And your statement that the failure of the banks to lend money contributed to the great depression is somewhat frightening . Isn't that what I am reading today? That the billions, the first 350 billion that Bush gave to banks, was to promoted lending and the banks are holding onto instead?????
And it is so interesting when someone reviews a book here for the rest of us to enjoy. Do continue! Thank you.
BABI, thanks for bringing Abba Eban's name up, it is a familiar one but lost in time. So, here he is on one of the numerous sites dedicated to him. You have probably seen the documentary on his life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban
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Hi, Ella and Marji. I cannot express strongly enough, how much I am enjoying "The Forgotten Man". One of the things I enjoy the most is all of the author's information about names I have heard over the years. Well known people of their day. As for Wendell Wilkie, my father debated someone on the radio. He favored WW. I remember how shocked I was when I learned he had not voted from FDR. I come from a long line of dedicated Democrats. All four of my grandparents were alive. I had two great grandmothers alive, and a great grandfather. The only Republican in the family was my paternal gg. After I got into genealogy, I discovered that in the 1920s she registered as a Progressive. I felt better about her after I learned that. LOL
Sheila
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Yes, Ella. Reading in TFM about the banks, sounds exactly as banks are, today. The author says that Herbert Hooker, had a policy of keeping his hands off of the county's financial situation. I was also surprised at the familiar names of people who urged him to get involved.
Sheila
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I promised to put this in non fiction.. Just finished "The Pages in Between" by Erin Einhorn. It is a non fiction account of a daughter of a holocaust survivor. Her Mother was a baby and was taken in by a polish family during WWII. They got paid.. She goes back to Poland as an adult to see where her Mother lived, if she can find the family, etc. Amazing book.. Not at all what you would expect. Dont think I would live inPoland, but the accounting was remarkable.
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No, Ella, I haven't seen the documentay on Abba Eban. I was interested in him not only for the role he played, but because of I so much enjoyed his history of the Hebrew people. Sheila said:
"One of the things I enjoy the most is all of the author's information about names I have heard over the years."
That is exactly what I most enjoyed in Eban's biography. I'm saving it as a reference precisely for that reason. I can go to it whenever the need arises, to see what he wrote about the various 'big names' of that period.
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HI STEPH AND BABI.
GOSH, it's quiet in here. What are you reading?
On a recent quick visit to B&N, I bought 2 paperbacks, THE LONG EMBRACE: Raymond Chandler and the Woman He loved by Judith Freeman - a charming book which portrays Los Angeles in the 1920's. Another titled ON HITLER'S MOUNTAIN: Overcoming the Legacy of a Nazi Childhood by Irmgard Hunt.
Last night I watched The American Experience (always a good TV show) and it focused on Robert Oppenheimer and how he was treated after his years of working for the government on the atom bomb. I think I once read a book about him, cannot remember the name of it, and it named all the scientists that were with him. Los Alamos is a fascinating place to visit. If you ever get the chance, don't miss it. So much history there and the National Laboratory is still there. Who knows what they are working on today - more destructive weapons?
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Ella - i looked for "Kindred Spirits" today at the library, but they don't have it. I asked them to order it. They are very good about getting anything i ask for, so i'm looking forward to it..........i did get "First in His Class" to see if i could figure out B. Clinton.............LOL...........jean
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Good morning, everyone!
Well, I can note what I'm not reading: since we bookies were advised to put aside Rivals until March, my husband snatched it. We will have a friendly tug-of-war on Feb 26th or thereabouts when I need to read it myself.
The good news he gives it very high marks, and he's critical of history-light, which this sure is not. He did not like Goodwin's book on the Kennedy's (old, cannot find it) but he finds Rivals excellent.
I'm back re-reading Washington's Crossing by David H Fischer, one of my favorite authors; most of his books are truly worth reading more than once. Did anyone else read his new one on Champlain?
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The following are 4 new nonfiction titles now in the B&N catalog. Three of these have not yet been released for sale but orders are being taken pending thair release that will come within a few days.
Eat This Not That! Supermarket Survival Guide: The No-Diet Weight Loss Solution by David Zinczenko, Matt Gouldi
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Eat-This-Not-That-Supermarket-Survival-Guide/David-Zinczenko/e/9781605298382/?cds2Pid=17806
Publisher: Rodale Press, Incorporated
Pub. Date: December 2008
ISBN-13: 9781605298382
Sales Rank: 5
336pp
Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man: What Men Really Think About Love, Relationships, Intimacy, and Commitment by Steve Harvey
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Act-Like-a-Lady-Think-Like-a-Man/Steve-Harvey/e/9780061728976/?cds2Pid=17351
Publisher: HarperCollins Publishers
Pub. Date: January 2009
ISBN-13: 9780061728976
Sales Rank: 2
240pp
The Yankee Years by Joe Torre, Tom Verducci
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Yankee-Years/Joe-Torre/e/9780385527408/?cds2Pid=17351
Publisher: Doubleday Publishing
Pub. Date: February 03, 2009
ISBN-13: 9780385527408
Sales Rank: 3
512pp
Obama: The Historic Front Pages by David Elliot Cohen, Mark Greenberg, Howard Dodson (Introduction)
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Obama/David-Elliot-Cohen/e/9781402769023/?cds2Pid=17351
Publisher: Sterling Publishing
Pub. Date: February 11, 2009
ISBN-13: 9781402769023
Sales Rank: 4
224p
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Obama: The Historic Front Pages by David Elliot Cohen, Mark Greenberg, Howard Dodson (Introduction)
Looks like they were waiting on this one, to see if Obama won the election. Timed to take advantage of the high interest in the subject.
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JEAN, I hope you get KINDRED SOULS (NOT SPIRITS) by Edna Gurewitsch; you will not believe the book! I didn't! Who would have guessed that Eleanor Roosevelt, mother of five, wife of one of our most beloved presidents, beloved herself for her ceaseless interest in people from every walks of life, wouldl have died almost by herself except for a doctor she had gone to and became very good friends with. Actually, she died in the doctor's home. It's a pathetic story in many ways.
MIPPY, I'm so glad your husband is enjoying TEAM OF RIVALS. It is a very good book as we will all discover soon - in MARCH, which will be here shortly - and I can't wait for spring. We have 7-11 inches of snow outside and many closings! He must post when we get into the discussion!
Hi HAROLD, are you interested in any of those books? Thanks for posting. What are you reading?
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Thanks for the correction Ella. I did look for "Souls" at the library, just switched in my mind when i wrote it here.
I've started "First in His Class" - very readable and interesting so far. It is about Clinton's life up until he's inaugurated, so i may have to find a more recent book on him to get the last fifteen plus years. ............
I asked before, but nobody responded - does anyone know anything about Marnie? She was always in here and lead some discussions, i'm just concerned about why she hasn't shown up. If i remember correctly, just before seniornet went down there was a problem w/ her father or FIL............hope she's o.k..............jean
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Ella regarding my having an interest the new best selling nonfiction titles that I posted yesterday, I don't really see any of them as prospectiive discussion candidates. Others might consider them differently. I thought that from time to time I might mention certain new nonfiction titles that have achived some popular best seller status.
My interest still centers on history. Until recently I think I would have choosen the T. Roosevelt Mornings on Horseback biography, but today I think I would go for the Jon Meacham biography of Andrew Jackson. But any new discussion progect will have to wait until I complete some new volenteer committments at the S.A. Missions National Historical Park.
Im the meantime I hope to increase my activity here with comments relative to other posts and from time I will mention and link other new popular bew nonfiction titiles
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Harold - thanks for the posts...............any "no diet" diet always interests me ;D
Either of the books for discussion that you mentioned would interest me.
I think you have an interest in Native Americans?...........i just read two novels by Don Coldsmith about the Kansas Territory. The first one is "Tallgrass" and has the most focus on the N.A'n's. Apparently he had intended to write only one book about the time and area, but when he got his required number of words on paper he discovered he was only up to pre-civil war, so he made it into two books. At the end of the second, "South Wind," he has some actual journal entries, one of which was a doctor who was w/ Gen Custer, before his most famous battle!..............just tho't you might enjoy them..............jean
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In case anyone is interested, on CSpan's Book TV program this weekend, two historians will be discussing Abraham Lincoln in depth -- his life and legacy and some of the many books written about him. CSpan says books about Lincoln are currently being published at the rate of one per week! The program airs Sunday 12 Noon and 12 Midnight, eastern time.
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Three Cups of Tea about building schools for Pakistani girls in the mountain regions where they use a stick to write lessons in the ground, no paper or tools and mostly no teachers outside on a hill top.
stranded mountain climber decides to change all that. He doesn't quite know where to begin but his people skills pave the way.
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Did anyone watch Amy Sedaris talk about her book I LIKE YOU yesterday on BookTV? Hilarious! Advice on entertaining, etc. Just one I remember -- "A children's party should never last longer than 30 minutes!" I have to read it.
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JEAN, no, I don't know a thing about Marnie. I wish I did, she was just great on our old site; I will ask around and see if we can find out anything but unless she answers an email, which I am sure has been sent out to her, we don't know a thing. But, thanks, for asking about her.
MARJ, thanks for the updates on Abraham Lincoln. This month is the 200th anniversary of his birth and there are planned activities everywhere - on TV, in new books, exhibits, even reenactments of his visits to various states, reenactments of battles of the Civil War, etc.
And we have our own here on SeniorLearn. We will be discussing Goodwin's book TEAM OF RIVALS but due to scheduling it will not be until March.
MEANWHILE, COME IN TO THE DISCUSSION AND POST SOMETHING ABOUT LINCOLN, OR JUST POST THAT YOU WILL BE WITH US NEXT MONTH. CLICK HERE TO POST:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=187.new#new
Thank you WINSUMMM for your post; I have heard about that book and it sounds great.
Also thanks to HAROLD for his interest and I would love to discuss any book you choose.
No, MARJ, I didn't watch BookTV yesterday at all. I went to see SLUMDOG which makes 3 Oscar nominated movies I have seen. So far, the Frost/Nixon one gets my vote!
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Regarding the movie, "Slumdog Millionaire" see my post dated today on the
"Books Made Into Movies" board
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ON HITLER'S MOUNTAIN: Overcoming the Legacy of a Nazi Childhood by Irmgard Hunt.
Ella, I read it two years ago - good book - a book that shows the condition that Germany was in prior to Hitler's taking power - it was easy to see why he was such the hero given the economic condition of Germany, the poverty and also the way folks built their careers as intenerate workers - reading how her family and neighbors lived was an eye opener.
I still remember movie newsreals that showed hundreds of folks bedding down each night on the village roads taking up almost an entire block with each on a pallet row after row across the road.
I thought it was a good book that gave us a view of how folks in Germany lived before and during WWII and from a child's viewpoint what they did and did not know. The author is about my age - I think a year younger and so I could see how I thought I knew everything during my pre-teen years and early teens just as she writes as if she knew all there was to know.
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E.L. Doctorow was interviewed yesterday on Booktv and he talked about his theory that "history" was all "storytelling" - he mentioned Homer, the writers of the Old and New Testaments, etc. - until the Enlightenment when Galileo and others decided that you had to observe and prove truth in order for something to be called "history," or true ............Earlier in the week I saw a program on PBS titled "The Truth about Wikipedia" which presented both sides of the argument that you do/don't have to be a "professional" to know the truth about something and that the theory of Wiki is that everybody has knowledge and "truth" and should be able to post what they know. AND is there such a thing as "truth?" When we look at all the books that have been written about many public figures and events and the way they often disagree w/ each other, or a new one comes out w/ "additional/new" information about the person or situation, it is a striking question. How can it be possible that after 1000,s of books written about Lincoln for 150 yrs, that there are still books being published w/ "new" information? Were those previous 1000 books untrue?
Would make for a very interesting discussion, as it did on the Wiki show. I think Wikipedia is terrific and i have found that most of what i read there is accurate - as far as we know "accurate", but i guess that shows my liberal bias and my thinking that credentials are not absolutely necessary for a person to be knowledgable, or an "expert" about something. I had a great argument w/ the vp of the college where i worked when she insisted that a person had to have a degree specifically in the discipline of the subject in order to be able to teach. I pointed out to her that in the 70's, 80's and 90's and even today, there are a lot of people who taught/can teach women's/Black history, etc., who never had an opportunity to get a degree in those disciplines, because there were NO degrees in those disciplines when the courses were started in the late 20th century.
I think that's one of the things i like about seniorlearn - we share ideas and expertise and don't have any idea, in many cases, what the background is of the person providing ideas or insight. Of course, we are a small community who can largely trust that someone isn't attempting to pull the wool over our eyes - there really isn't any reason for someone to do that. ................what i nice feeling!....................jean
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Ella, I loved Slumdog Millionaire. Now I want to see THE READER. You said your favorite of the Oscar nominees so far is the FROST/NIXON. I've not been eager to see this for a couple of reasons - First, I watched the original interviews by Frost, and second, I saw the 1995 movie NIXON with Anthony Hopkins and really disliked it. He didn't seem to me at all like Nixon. Maybe for those who didn't live through those years with him as president would have enjoyed it, but I heard and saw the real Nixon. So I'm reluctant to see someone else try to portray him.
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And I am reluctant to spend time going back over that sad and disappointing story. I don't plan to watch the Nixon/Frost movie.
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A NICE FEELING, JEAN, YES!!!
Thanks HAROLD, BARBARA, JEAN, MARJ AND BABI for your posts. I love coming in here and reading them and I might agree/disagree and that is the fun of it all.
Quoting JEAN - "is there such a thing as "truth?" When we look at all the books that have been written about many public figures and events and the way they often disagree w/ each other, or a new one comes out w/ "additional/new" information about the person or situation, it is a striking question"
What do you think?
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Our local book club is reading NINE by Jeffrey Toobey this month and I have just skimmed it; it looks very good. Has anyone read it?
Speaking of which (and I willl be speaking of this for a few weeks starting in March) take a look at what the Supreme Court did in 1857 when they handed down the Dred Scott decision:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford
I know you have all heard of the case. What a far cry it is today with Obama as our President. We should be proud we have overcome.
Join us in our pre-discussion of Lincoln and his team of rivals. What history!!!!
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?board=49.0
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The question - is there such a thing as truth - is intriguing. My answer would be no, not an individual truth or a collective truth. Possibly there is such a thing as "factual truth." It's a truth that the earth is round. But a moral truth?
The book I had reserved some time ago finally came in to my Library and it looks very good. AMERICAN LIGHTING by Howard Blum reports on the destruction of the Los Angeles Times Building in 1910; the trial of the terrorists who committed the crime and the labor struggles which evoked it. Very good book, I think.
I had just listened to a short discussion of labor in this country today on NPR. One listener calling in believes that unless we can get manufacturing jobs back into the country (said jobs now mainly in China) we are doomed to repeat the market of the late 1800's, the sweatshops, the low wages dictated by capitalism, no benefits, etc. Our job market is disappearing somewhere and unemployment continues to rise.
Interestingly, the narrator pointed out the Washington, D.C. has the lowest unemployment rate in the country. GO FIGURE!!!
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So much of the stuff made in China, or the middle East, India, etc., is of poor quality. The lower price doesn't make up for shoddy material or workmanship. The simplest solution to the problem would be for Americans to stop buying the stuff. On the other hand, I picked up a made in China walking cane for a buck at a grocery store, and find it most useful. So,there are obviously exceptions.
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BABI, try to find something made in America!
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I don't go into stores that expensive, ELLA. :'( ::)
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THE PROBLEM!
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There are obviously some things we know in the natural world that we can state as truth, but when you are talking about events that include people and try to figure out "truth" that is a different story. If five of us see an accident, or any event, we are seeing it from five different perspectives, different histories bringing different thinking to the moment, eyes going to different pieces of what's happening - and my goodness if you wait a year or a century to talk/research about it - "truth" can be clarified, or get mightily skewed. That was one of the reasons i found history so interesting and the more i learned/research/taught it the more interesting it became. ...................... jean
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This is off topic, but I just wondered if anyone has ever read JUSTICE AT NUREMBERG by Robert E. Conot. It's not a new book (1983?) but a real page turner! I got started on it after reading Albert Speer's INSIDE THE THIRD REICH, which is also fascinating. I haven't got to the trial yet, have just read a couple of chapters talking about some of the defendents they brought in. I'd always thought of all these Nazis as being perhaps like Adolf Eichmann, scary people, but of those I've read about so far... Rudolf Hess and Von Ribbentrop were really pathetic nut cases.
And Hermann Goering was something else. When he surrendered and was brought in, he left behind at Berchtesgaden a train loaded with stolen artwork. He brought with him his valet, his personal nurse, 4 aides, 5 kitchen crew members and a chef, along with his wife and her maid, and their young daughter and her nurse. Also with him were 16 monogramed suitcases containing among other things, an accordian,
$20,000 in German marks, his medals and enough gold, silver and jewels to start a small jewelry store. One suitcase contained 20,000
paracodine pills which he was taking at a rate of 40 per day. It took over two months to gradually get him withdrawn from this drug.
So, just in case you're looking around for something to read....
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MARJIFAY, I have long been of the opinion that was is the perfect medium for the rise of 'scary' people and nut cases. Instead of jailing them or placing them in institutions, the powers that rule during war hire them to do their dirty work.
I recently finished Daniel Silva's "Unlikely Spy", a fiction story based on actual events. It featured the nuts and the monsters, and it seemed everyone was practicing a deception on everyone else. It was enough to make my head spin.
It was engrossing, but not at all encouraging.
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Babi said, "Instead of jailing them or placing them in institutions, the powers that rule during war hire them to do their dirty work."
Yes, and that has happened in "peace" time too. Perhaps not as bad as the nazis, as probably no one could match their horrors, but look at what the CIA did in various parts of the world, and, of course, Nixon's Watergate screwballs.
I've put THE UNLIKELY SPY on my TBR list. Thanks.
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You're welcome. :)
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Regarding Herman Goering, he cheated the Nurenburg hangman a few hours before his scheduled execution by biting a cynide pilll that was concealed cleverly in ia cermanic pipe. One or another of his guards apparently retreived this pipe from his stored effects in violation of standing orders. The prime suspect was a Lieutant from Central Texas who returned to civilian life and died early so the full story of the circumstance of how the pipe was delivered will never be known.
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That's a story I haven't heard before, Harold. I wonder if the Texas Lt. was a pipe smoker, too. It's hard to imagine anyone being willing to do a kindness for Goering, but a man who loved his pipe might.
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Is anybody reading any good books lately?
A good autobiography or biography?
I watched a portion of bookTV this morning and listened to a history professor in Virginia discuss his book HOW AMERICA GOT IT RIGHT by Bevin Alexander. What a patriot he is; he will not concede that we have made any mistakes in the last century (or ever) with one exception and that is Vietnam. He doesn't see China as a military threat and believes that our involvement with the Middle East was a correct one and will continue for sometime. However, he says we have given up the idea of a democracy in the region but will keep a small military force there for sometime.
In our newspaper recently there was a review of a book HOW TO LIVE: A SEARCH FOR WISDOM FROM OLD PEOPLE (While They Are Still on This Earth) by Henry Alford. Humorous.
Come join us in our discussion of Abraham Lincoln in TEAM OF RIVALS. The book discussion begins March lst.
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I am reading "China Road" by a guy from NPR or PBS and finding it quite an eye opener.
Also, Ella asked me to mention the possibility of discussing "Loving Frank", about Frank Lloyd Wright and his real paramour. The book is well written and full of much that is true, historically. Since we have some of Wright's students' designed homes here in my home town of Columbus, OH, I found it a source of how Lloyd felt about his "Organic Architecture". Anyone else interested???
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I have China Road ready to pick up at the library tomorrow. I'm looking forward to getting into that one. I hope it has good maps - I am woefully ignorant about the geography in that part of the world.
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Mary, China Road is a very interesting read. It has a great map so you can follow his trip across China.
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Do any of you remember the Readers Digest Condensed book club? I was an early subscriber when it was first announced in 1955, and most of all I remember the first issue. That included an interesting history by Cecil Woodham Smith about the Charge of the Light Brigade. The story is told against the backdrop of Tennyson’s famous poem. In some 60 pages the famous charge is detailed with the conflicts and vanities of two leading generals (Lord Cardigan (he invented the jacket style and Lord Regan). The story also details the role of the social and military system that put them in position of command and also notes the reforms that followed.
Last Saturday I ran across a copy of this volume at one of our Chandler campus libraries and brought it home to read, which was no major project in as much as in its condensed form it was reduced o about 60 pages. A reprint paperback of the full length book is still in the B&N Catalog at
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Reason-Why/Cecil-Woodham-Smith/e/9780140012781/?itm=1
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I love books with great world maps, so would really appreciate China Road. I often turn to the National Geographic maps to "repeat" some of the trips I took while I spent a semester teaching in China in the mid-80's. My son used some of the NG maps (and also the military ones, of course) during his two deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they have been wonderful resources for some of my public presentations. I'm studying one now focused on Afghanistan and trying to learn as much as I can about the Swat Valley.
I also loved my collection of the Readers Digest Condensed Books through the years and have many still on the shelves. My 45 year old son learned many history lessons in his youth from some of those texts. They were "treasures" in our household!
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Great posts to read this morning. The ideas! The books! The memories!
CHINA ROAD was a great book, ANN! Several of us have read and would recommend it.
And I have read LOVING FRANK and thought the book was very good. It's a novel, but factual in every sense of the word.
Hello, MARJ!
HAROLD, goodness, yes, I remember the condensed books. When we were very busy young adults they were good to read, just to catch up on what was going on the literary world. They didn't always take the place of the whole book, though! Are they still being published, I have no idea. I have all the time in the world now to read the whole story.
Hello PERSIAN! Thanks for the post. Can you speak Chinese? Or did you teach English while in China?
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Regarding the Reader's Digest condensed books series; I don't think they are currently being published. In fact I am almost sure that they are not. I dropped my subscription a year or so later when apparently I found that even condensed book were taking too much of my time.
I remember a number of titles from the early series including several titles that later became movies. These include "Good Morning Miss Dove and in particular "The Searchers" that was a popular movie based on the Cynthia Ann Parker incident. She was the five year old Texas Girl who in 1836 was captured by Comanche during the Texas Revolution to grow up a Comanche and become the mother of Quanah Parker The last Comanche war chief. Twenty years later she was “liberated” by Texas Rangers, but unable to readapt to Anglo society she died just one year later. The “Searcher” is a loosely related fictional account of a similar incident particularly one man’s persistent search for a Comanche Anglo girl captive that finally paid off with its success. I think this historical event has been the basic formula for several 20th century novels and stories.
Quanah Parker, who was not taken when his mother was liberated remained Comanche throughout his life and is credited with moving his people into their new role in the 20th century. He seems to have been a prominent crowd pleasing participant in the Theodore Roosevelt 1905 inaugural parade. The Quaker missionaries at the Reservation kept urging him to give up all but one of his several wives, but he always refused saying he was not brave enough to tell the ones being rejected.
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Harold, thanks for that story about Quanah Parker being asked to give up all but one of his wives. That gave me a smile to start my day. Quanah Parker was a very interesting man.
Not long ago I read a book about two girls taken by Indians and later 'rescued'. It was called "Remember the Morning", but right now I can't remember the author. Their years with the Indians were a marked influence in the girls' lives.
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Greetings Babi -
Remember the Morning was by Thomas Fleming. I have now finished that one as well as Liberty Tavern and am into the Wages of Fame. He does continue to use the same technique of - alluding to the result of a decision - but it is not as overbearing as it was in the first book. I have not become "connected" to any of the characters but am enjoying the settings Remember the Morning is in the Mohawk Valley in the early 1700's when I had ancestors living there and involved with the French and Indian Wars. Liberty Tavern - although set in New Jersey during the Revolutionary War - gave me a feel for the tavern owner and the committee of safety, which again an ancestor was a tavern owner and chairman of the committee of safety in NY. The involvement of the Quakers was also of interest because my mother's ancestors were Quakers in NJ at that time. In the Wages of Fame I am now into the 1820's which is a period of history that I am weak in so it too is interesting. These books are not riveting for me - but there are well researched and I will finish the series.
In response to Ella's question -
Is anybody reading any good books lately?
I'm also reading The Power Broker by Caro which is interesting and frustrating. FDR has just been elected governor of NY and he and Robert Moses detest each other. Moses is one of those people who started out with good ideas and ideals and then when he had the power to do good let power become his objective.
I would think that one of the reasons that Lincoln is considered a great president is because once he had the power he never forgot that his goal to preserve the union and he continued to use his power for that purpose.
A friend just loaned me "Amish Grace: How Forgiveness Transcended Tragedy" by Kraybill, Nolt and Weaver-Zercher about the school house shooting in PA in 2006. I will probably take a quick break from the others to read it.
In the meantime - read some quick mysteries and a book by an acquaintance dealing with his (less than a year) losing battle with cancer.
Just received a reminder that winter is still alive in well - snow today and bitter cold and wind returning for tonight. At least we know that March is only a week away. Soon I'll be able to sit outside in my swing and read to my heart's content. Mary
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No bites on "Loving Frank"??? Well, I have another title that I am also considering and its "non fiction". Very timely book, about an American building schools in Pakistan and NE Afghanistan. "Three Cups of Tea" is the title. Very good reading.
There are no maps in the hard cover of "China Road" but I think if you have a good atlas that you could follow the trip. This book does surprise. Just the number of people in that country is amazing. My son was in Bejing last year and he said that the huge numbers of people, out walking and shopping, is overwhelming.
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I got my hard-cover copy of China Road from the library yesterday, and it has an adequate map in the front of the book - not very detailed, but it'll do.
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Thanks for the info., CUBFAN. I wish I had more specific information about my ancestry; it would be interesting to read the history of their times and places. What I know is too vague to be of much use.
Sorry, Annie. I wanted to read "The Silk Road", which I believe covers the same caravan route as the China Road. I've heard good things about "Three Cups of Tea". I think I'd be interested in that one.
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Here is the route that Rob Gifford took across China.
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2004/aug/china_road/
Plus Gifford's breakdown of the trip. Very nice! Lots of pictures!
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The "Snoop" book, about what your stuff says about you, turned out to be a bore. It sounded so entertaining..........oh, so it goes...........
I'm also reading "First in HIs Class" Bill Clinton's life up until 1992. And then i was looking for something to read while on the treadmill, so in looking at my stash i found Bob Woodward's "The Agenda" - Bill Clinton's campaign and administration, so i'm sort of reading BC in a schizoid fashion. LOL...........jean
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ANNIE - if you have additional comments about Greg Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea
I'd be interested in reading them, since I'm scheduled to talk about Afghan culture at one of our local libraries on March 10 and 11 in connection with his experiences in Afghanistan. I've known (and worked with) several Afghan educators and numerous Americans who have worked hard for many years to bring various aspects of education to children and youth in Afghanistan. I'm familiar with Afghan tribal and clan culture, but have been pondering for several weeks about how much detail to present to the library discussion group. I've even contacted several Afghan friends in the metropolitan Washington area to get their advice. All 3 answered "take it easy."
ELLA - Yes, I was able to talk with my students in Chinese when I taught in Sichuan province in the mid-80's. Although my university classes were in English, of course, the students were happy that we could also communicate in Chinese. I have always considered myself fortunate be to from a multicultural and multilingual family background. I've enjoyed learning languages for my own enjoyment, as well as at a professional level when I needed to do so.
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I don't remember who recommended "The Bookseller of Kabul", but I want to thank that person. I am reading it and finding it most interesting. Thank you.
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I read that one, FLAJEAN, and found it interesting, but most disturbing. I spent a good deal of my reading time being upset and angry at the treatment of the women of the family.
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Certainly someone is reading a good nonfiction book!
Let us know!!! I am in dire need of a good one!
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Babi, I did also. My blood pressure went up when I read about Mansur (I won't repeat my opinion for him) forbidding his mother to teach even 'tho her husband was OK with it. IMO I think this book gives a more real and rounded picture of Afghan men than "Three Cups of Tea". However, I did enjoy "Three Cups of Tea" also.
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Sure, Ella, I can recommend a good one that I'm reading now:
109 EAST PALACE, by Jennet Conant. It was resting on my shelf unread, until you brought up the subject of Los Alamos, and the Manhattan Project. Once I had watched The Trials of Robert Oppenheimer that you mentioned, I was hooked on the subject. Conant's book is perhaps more human interest stuff than the rocket science nature of atom bomb construction. The subtitle is: Robert Oppenheimer and the Secret City of Los Alamos. I'm pretty certain I'll be reading another book I've had for a while:
AMERICAN PROMETHEUS: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, by Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin. Has anyone read it?
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I am presently reading "Let's Roll", the Todd Beamer biography by his wife (with a co-writer) Lisa Beamer. After reading and hearing so much about dysfunctional families, it is nice to read about healthy, happily functioning families.
That said, it is only our natural desire to know more about the heroic Todd Beamer that gives us a reason to read the book. There is nothing there to excite interest otherwise. I can't help but feel my interest in Todd would have been sufficiently satisfied with a good magazine article.
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Thanks, BABI!! But I have read one or two books about Oppenheimer, who was mistreated by the government after the bomb, as I remember. The colonel (or was he a captain) in charge of Los Alamos at the time was a real tyrant, but possibly needed to keep that place secret from the world. What a secret!!!
Have you read anything that mentions any spies or enemies who might have somehow come in contact with that project? We knew about the Germans perfecting their bomb, I wonder if they knew anything about Los Alamos or that project.
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I watched a portion of documentary on Hurricane Katrina last night and wonder if anyone has read a book about it? I think it would make a good topic for discussion if I could find a good book.
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I certainly do not need a book about Hurricane Katrina------I lived it (I am in Louisiana)----
however, there are plenty of books out there about that tragedy.
JOY
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JOY! How did you survive? Still have your clothes and house? Do you think the city will ever be rebuilt? People move back?
Tell us a bit about it, we have heard so much and are not sure what is the truth. Who was at fault, if there was fault?
I brought home from the library two books on the hurricane, I am not sure that either is what I am looking for but, as you say, there are many!
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Ella: I live in Baton Rouge---up river about 80 miles from NO, so we did not feel the effects of
Katrina as did the people in NO. However, let me tell you we felt ENOUGH. My youngest dtr (36) and family live in Mandeville ---a city on Lake Pontchartrain which is across from NO. She and family evacuated to BR, and 2 dtrs here and their families, and I--along with the dtr from Mandeville all "camped out at one dtr's house because we thought she was in a place that would probably not lose electricity--------NOT SO. Electricity was out for about a week---
depending what part of the city you were in. And let me tell you, Louisiana is HOT in Sept. >:(
All you have seen on the news was true, thousands evacuated, thousands sick in hospitals, evacuation centers , nursing homes (lots of nursing home patients were sent here to Baton Rouge, as well as all over Northern Louisiana and other states). No, New Orleans will NEVER be the historic city it was, but they are TRYING. My dtr's MIL lost EVERYTHING but the clothes she
evacuated with (from NO) and countless others were in the same predicament. I could go on-
and-on with horror stories, but suffice it to say it was the hurricane of the centaury-bar none!
Joy
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ELLA: I was working for a top-secret project (not Los Alamos) during the fifties, and I will never forget the paranoid attitude of those days. We had to take lie detector tests twice a year where they asked if we were Communists. They asked if we had ever read Marx. I had read "The Communist Manifesto" as part of a Collage "famous documents of history" class. So I had to explain that I had read Marx, but I didn't want to.
I was never allowed to work on the most secret projects, and I suspect that was why.
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Did the earlier proposed discussion of 3 Cups of Tea ever receive enough interest to begin the discussion? I'm interested since I'm working on my presentation on Afghan culture for a local Library group on March 10th. If there was a discussion, I'd appreciate knowing how participants felt about Mortenson's remarks.
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pedin mentioned "three cups of tea"
I just finished it and feel so differently about pakistan and aphganistan. \\ theme is that adducation and expecially fr girls itthe answer to the Taliban and Alcaeda. the theme is that once a person gets into learning something other than killing and praying he is able to contribute in a posative way and peace prevail. The important aspec of this is that schools for girl contribute the most.
I have learned so much about what is going on in pakistan and afganistan both poor countries forced by taleban and alhaeca to live a lifeless existance. , .especialy the women..and financed by the saudis.
the whole book suggests that building grammer school for the children is a way out and its tone is compassionate. writen by gregg mortenson and david relin. a MUST. it also gives suggestions for passing it on. educations helps us all to being peace.
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morenson felt an obligations to educate the girls expecialy in the far flung villages of pakistan and later afganistan. His premise that it would be harder for aelida dn the taliban to recrute from them if they had been taught to think fo themselve. Te whole book seems to ride on a theme of compassion for these peopl. He fund themn easy to love.
easy to understand as poor people making do. I did too. the co-write david relin found this tone and used it throughout. there i a region at the back suggesting ways we can all help.
I find spelling a problem, so many unfamiliar names, but it is worth it -- a great read.
claire
claire
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I've started reading "The Faith Club", the story of the three women, Muslim, Christian and Jew, who began comparing their faiths in order to write a book explaining them to their childen. Someone here recommended it, I believe.
I am finding it to be a very honest and open look at the questions which people of each fatih find most sensitive and difficult to discuss. I am greatly impressed with the way these women worked past things that initially upset them, to come to a better understanding.
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I don't know, I feel that there was a rush to put a book into print before Ted Kennedy died and it doesn't seem appropriate for some reason. The name of the book is THE LAST LION.
An interesting one on our Library home page is:
Not Buying It: My Year Without Shopping
By: Judith Levine
Many of us have tried to call a halt to our spending at one time or another. But what if we decided not to buy anything for a whole year? In honor of National Consumer Protection Week, we feature Not Buying It, a cold-turkey confession by an award-winning journalist that follows her progress--and inevitable relapses--
Personally, I never shopped much anyway except for groceries, so not a problem! You reach a certain age and there isn't much need.
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I've just finished China Road. Thanks for the recommendation. It was a very good read - and I certainly learned a lot about China that I never even thought of before. It's a very readable, personal story, but with lots of information. John's reading it now.
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I just finished reading "Mrs.Lincoln" by Catherine Clinton and truly enjoyed it. I found I got to know and understand Mary Lincoln in a "better Light." These are some comments written by Doris Kearns: "In this remarkable book, Catherine Clinton displays an emotional depth in her understanding of Mary Lincoln that has rarely been revealed in the Lincoln literature. This engaging, wonderfully written narrative provides fresh insight into this complex woman, whose intelligence and loving capacities were continually beset by insecurities. It is a triumph."
by Doris Kearns Goodwin
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MaryZ, you probably remember in China Road how anxious the Chinese Communist Party is about seeing that the standard of living there keeps rising so that their millions of citizens won't brood over their lack of real freedom and other problems and possibly decide to revolt. There is an article today on the front page of the NY Times online about this subject. It talks about how the leaders are meeting to talk about increasing their own stimulus package they've already pledged of $584 billion.
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Lately I have been reading books dealing with panics, money manias and depressions. Nial Ferguson's latest book "The Ascent of Money "is fascinating. He begins with the first coins used in Mesapotamia and takes us up to our latest financial downturn. There is a very interesting book, (perhaps one could call it revisionist history) on the Great Depression by Amity Shlaes, "The Forgotten Man." Books on money manias, panics and crashes gives up hope. We learn that the United States has lived through many of these downturns starting with the panic of 1792. We came through many of these crises and we survived. We will come through this one too.
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I am firmly convinced that human society goes through regular swings, like those of a pendulum. At each end of the arc are extremes which seem dire and threatening, but always we turn back from that threat and return to a norm, only to swing too far to the other side. It's a repetitive pattern, but reassuring in its own way.
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Greetings -
Have just finished two interesting titles. The Children's Blizzard by David Laskin - about a horrific blizzard that hit the Dakota territory in 1888. It not only introduces us to the pioneer settlers of the time but also the politics of weather forecasting. Puts our current weather situations into perspective. As much as I'm tired of snow shoveling and cold weather this year - it has really only been an inconvenience - not life threatening.
Also read, Amish Grace, by Kraybill, Nolt, and Weaver-Zercher. This title gives an understanding of the Amish way of life and how they are able to forgive, even following the killing of the ten school girls in Pennsylvania, October 2006.
Both books explained their situations well. Mary
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HI FOLKS!
All those books sound good, I've got so many to read but I have a project underway at the time and it is called - DISCUSSING TEAM OF RIVALS, by Doris Kearns Goodwin.
WE NEED YOUR INPUT!
The Civil War!!! Who did it? Why? Did they know how it would split the country? Did they care? After all those fabulous revolutionary days and people, they were giving up on it?
Whether you are reading the book or not - GIVE US AN OPINION! A ROUND TABLE DISUSSION.
Here - http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=271.40
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I would like to recommend two books, one a hugh volume on the history of New York City, starting with the colonization by the Dutch in the 16th century, l7th century, 18th century and 19th century New York City. It is called Gotham and is over 1,000 pages but if you were born in New York City as I was ( actually Brooklyn) you will find it amazing. The other volume is much smaller and very entertaining. It's called "Low Life", by Luc Sante, and it is exactly what it says, the low life of l9th century New York City, gangs, crooked police, crooked politicians, political bosses, houses of ill repute, opium dens etc. If "Gotham" appears overwhelming do read "Low Life". You will not regret it.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: Ella Gibbons (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com)
They sound interesting Lucky, i'll look for them..............jean
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Elizabeth Keckley
Behind the Scenes or, Thirty Years a Slave,
and Four years in the white House
This book features a candid private view of the Lincoln White House during a violent turning
point in American history, and the story of a friendship that continued after Lincoln's
assassination.
Introduction and Notes by--William L. Andrews
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Do you know the publishing date of the Elizabeth Keckley book? I read a book about her many years ago and it was very interesting. She ended up being one of the few "friends" of Mary Lincoln, as i recall, and really took care of her - mentally and physically, as much as she could - w/ a compassion.............jean
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Jean, I'm copying this from my paper back copy:
First published in the U.S. by G.W. Carleton & Co. 1868
This edition with an introduction and notes by William L. Andrews 2005--Fran
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I have just finished three memoirs - Dewey (the Library Cat)by Vicki Myron, My Stroke of Insight by Jill Bolte Taylor, and Isabel Allende's The Sum of Our Days.
My Stroke of Insight was written by a 37 year-old brain scientist at Harvard as she clinically recorded her stroke and recovery. It is a fascinating study in depth of the roles the right brain and left brain each played in her recovery.
Isabel Allende's book continues her memoirs of life in California with most of her family from Chile with her as well as her second husband (an American) and her children. I believe she is a wonderful writer.
Sandra
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All those memoirs sound interesting, SANDRA! Thanks for suggesting them.
On BookTV over the weekend I heard the author, Cullen Murphy, speak about his book, ARE WE ROME, and although I just heard bits of it due to a long telephone conversation, I heard enough to look the book up when I am next in the library.
The author said one of the reasons Rome fell was because the populace became complacent and America never has been in its history. We are a country who is always looking for ways to do better, monetarily and morally. I wish I had heard more of the discussion.
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Ella, http://www.booktv.org/ is the link to the BookTV web page. I think I heard at one time that you could now listen to interviews on the computer. I didn't look, but you might be able to find the one you want there. Good luck.
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For history buffs I would like to recommend "Stalin, The Court Of The Red Tsar" by Simon Sebag Montefiore, everything you ever wanted to know about Stalin and everything you wish you didn't know.
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March is Women's History Month. What good books have you read that talked about women's role in history?
Just last night i had a wonderful experience in women's history. Women's Way in Philadelphia, which is a "United Way" for women's agencies and issues, give an award each year to the author of a book which advances the dialogue about women's rights. It's given in the name of Ernesta Drinker Ballard who was the first president of Women's Way. W'sW was started in the 70's when the United Way of Phila was giving very little money to women's agencies and projects. Ballard was a dynamo for women in PHila, in many areas of life.
The winner of the award last night was Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, the author of sev'l books about colonial women, but is most famous for putting a phrase in a journal article in the 1970's about colonial funerals that said "well-behaved women seldom make history!" That phrase has been picked up and used on every surface - t-shirts, mugs, pens, banners, etc. etc. and is the title of her latest book. This book focuses on Christine de Pisan, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Virginia Woolf, but goes on to chapters entitled "Shakespeare's Daughters," the Amazons," Slaves in the Attic," and others. She is really talking about all of us ordinary women who "make" history w/out ever having our names in history books. Gerda Learner has said everyone is making history. Do you think she's right?
I say to my students that everyone whose name is in a history book was/is a radical. Do you agree? They weren't behaving as normal, everyday people, or thay would not be noticed enough for us to still know their names.
Another of Ulrich's books i enjoyed was "The Age of Homespun." That was her first book and was about colonial women. ...................
Last night she talked about how the interest in many groups civil rights and history during the 60's, 70's and 80's brought an huge expansion of what is history and how it makes "history" a vastly different thing now than it was in 1965.
Gerda Lerner has also said that one of the reasons women have been limited in their accomplishments is that they don't know their history and what they had already accomplished. What books have you read that gave you a different perception of women thru history?........................jean
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I recently finished reading "The Faith Club", which may have been recommended here. I greatly appreciate that recommendation, as this is a book well worth reading. The three women, a Muslima, a Jew, and a Christian get together with the idea of coming to an understanding of one another's faith, so they can write a children's book explaining those beliefs.
The women come to grips with some very hard issues, are sometimes hurt or offended, but they continue to work it out together. They become close friends, with the added benefit of a deepened understanding in their own faiths as well as a new acceptance of that of others. IMO, these three women have demonstrated how it should be done.
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Am reading "My Guantanamo Diary, The Detainees and the Stories They Told Me" by an American Afghan lawyer named Mahvish Rukhsana Khan. She received her secret clearance and was hired by the gov. because she could speak the Pashtoon language. It is so sad to hear stories of some innocent Afghans that were turned in by their own Afghan people for the $25,000 that we offered them. But, unfortunately, they languished in "Gitmo" for years before our Gov. let them go and many of them were tortured.
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That is interesting Flajean. I didn't know there was a reward offered except for Bin Laden. Some people will accuse others of misdeeds just to get the money and/or they see a way to get rid of someone in the neighborhood they don't like and want to cause them lots of trouble. This brings into question just how many at Gitmo were falsely accused.
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BABI - I am glad you enjoyed The Faith Club, which clearly illustrates that women of the Abrahamic faiths can work alongside each other when they allow themselves to listen to each other, discuss (without rancor) their differences (as well as similarities) and realize that they often have more in common than not.
This book was also mentioned in the recent presentation I did at a local library in connection with Greg Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea. This is another marvelous example of how people of totally different backgrounds, interests and faiths can indeed come together, work together and create opportunities beneficial to all.
FLAJEAN: I have known several Afghan female lawyers in the metropolitan Washington DC area (where I lived for many years), who took translator/interpreter positions similar to the one undertaken by Mahvish Rukhsana Khan. These women shared their experiences with several of us who had backgrounds in the Middle East and/or Central Asia as a way to ease their own anguish about some of the stories they heard or read. I also knew Afghan woman in the same area who developed small businesses and used the profits to contribute food items to previously incarcerated Afghan individuals once they returned (often in shame) to their families after long imprisonment.
Mahlia
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FRYBABE, I think there is no question that many people were/are imprisoned at Gitmo on little more than suspicion. The rights we take for granted were abrogated in the 'war against terrorism' that followed 9/11. It is a moral dilemma, the necessity to do all that can be done to protect America vs. the undoubted harm done to innocent people. I cannot help but feel we have gone too far at Gitmo, and done too little to clear and release those being held without sufficient cause.
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We're proposing a discussion for May of "Three Cups of Tea". I've started the book, and had a hard time putting it down. It's the story of a "climbing bum", who got lost coming down from a failed attempt to climb K2, and wound up in a Pakistani village so small, it wasn't on the map. When he left, he promised he would come back and build a school. He wound up building over 100 schools for girls, in the area controlled by the Taliban.
If you're interested, come let us know in "Proposed discussions" or here:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?board=57.0 (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?board=57.0)
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I've just put a notice about a book I'm reading called Down the Nile in the Library , and rather than repeat it here I'll just give a link: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=24.msg15486#msg15486
It's excellent, but ....frank. Maybe TOO frank for some people. It's one woman's journey alone rowing down the Nile in a rowboat, published in 2007. It is FULL of history, and it's fascinating.
it kind of fits in with your mention here of March being women's history month. I had no idea Florence Nightingale was far from a piaster saint and a very keen observer, now I want to read her book also. It's amazing what doors one little set of pages can open. Come over and comment if you like. :)
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Hi Ginny!
I just requested the Library to reserve a copy for me and its purchase of 41 copies is an indication that the book is a popular nonfiction one. Sounds very interesting and thanks for the recommendation!
Ann Coulter was on Book TV speaking of her new book: "Guilty. Liberals: Victims and their Assault on America." I don't a thing about the woman but she is interesting to listen to and watch all her gestures and body language. I understand she is an author and a commentator of some sort.
Has anyone read any of her books? Columns? Where are they published?
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Ann Coulter is a hateful, self-aggrandising person. If she comes on to a program i am watching, i turn from it. I feel like i'm saying something to the channel/program but i don't know if they get the msg. (Do you think they are sophisticated enough to look at their viewing numbers in those small segments?)
I like opinionated debate of the various sides of an issue, but i want adult, mature, factual discussion, not just hateful name-calling, which is all Ann Coulter does. Unfortunately it seems to sell her books and has made her a wealthy woman............it amazes me how people will do anything to make money today, leaving all principles behind...................jean
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Jean, I agree with you completely concerning Ann Coulter.
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Thanks you two. I'll avoid her!
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I saw a bit of Ann Coulter on the tube the other day. I didn't find her very interesting. Every chance she got she mentioned her new book, probably because the host actually wanted to talk about issues and didn't mention it. My best friend has one or two of her books. He says she is difficult to read, not because of content so much as writing style. I've read a few of her acticles, but I don't remember getting much out of them.
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The Ann Coulter opinion poll seems to be unanimous. I agree with Ella. It's good to know who not to waste one's time on.
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I am just finishing a cute book called "HOW STARBUCKS SAVED MY LIFE: A son of privilege learns to live like everyone else by Michael Gates Gill. His father had written for The New Yorker for years, knew everyone that "was" someone, and had money. The author also had a great job with an advertising firm, but then came divorce and a forced retirement and he was broke. He is now working as a waiter at Starbucks and loving it. He's met all the greats also, Hemingway, Robert Frost, and the rest of them.
You 'll enjoy it.
Also the NILE BOOK looks very good. I'll get into that today.
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Noteworthy New Nonfiction
I visited one of the large local Barns & Noble retail stores the other morning. In fact myself and several of my Chandler neighbors had a tour of the store by the local manager. I have been trying to get them to send me monthly the names of new nonfiction titles coming into their catalog with clickable links to their catalog for posting here. I somehow don’t think that is going to happen. I think they correctly sense its not going to result in any great sales response. My purchases were limited to three Andre Rieu DVD’ and two manuals for Microsoft Excel 07 and Microsoft Vista, but I also browsed the nonfiction display tables where the following new nonfiction titles caught my eye.
Descartes Bones by Russell Shorto.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Descartes-Bones/Russell-Shorto/e/9780385517539/?itm=1
Act Like A Lady, Think Like A Man by Steve Harvey. Click the link below for synopsis and information. In this book the Author Steve Harvey presumes to advise modern women on their relationship problems. My friend Brandy Davis bought this book. I’ll see if I can get her comments for a later post.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Act-Like-a-Lady-Think-Like-a-Man/Steve-Harvey/e/9780061728976/?itm=1
Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell. Click the link below for synopsis and Information. Here the Author studies the reason for the emergence of certain individuals as the best and the brightest.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Outliers/Malcolm-Gladwell/e/9780316024976
Never Give Up!: Relentless Determination to Overcome Life's Challenges by Joyce Meyer. This is another self-help title. It profiles some fifty individuals who successfully overcame great obstacles to achieve success. Click the following link for a synopsis and additional information about the author.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Never-Give-Up/Joyce-Meyer/e/9780446580359/?itm=1
Troublesome Young Men: The Rebels Who Brought Churchill to Power and Helped Save England by Lynne Olson. When the War began on Sept 3 1939 Neville Chamberlin brought Winston Churchill from the back benches to head the Admiralty. This book tells how a small group of young MP’s brought Churchill to power as PM on May 10th 1940 as German Panzers raced through Holland and Belgium into France. Though another five years and a worldwide war was required to achieve final victory, Churchill’s bull doggish determination was a sharp contrast to the defeatist Chamberlin government and other possible alternates. Clich the following for Information.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Troublesome-Young-Men/Lynne-Olson/e/9780374531331/?itm=1
Does anyone have comment concerning any of these titles?
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Harold: Thanks for the interesting list of books.
I saw the author of OUTLIERS (Malcolm Gladwell) on CSpan BookTV yesterday and put the book on hold at my library. Looks very interesting. I was fascinated by the author's discussion of countries which have the most airline crashes. He talked about a crash of a Colombian airliner. The investigators listened to the cockpit conversation on the "black box." The co-pilot of that plane had tried excitedly to give some advice to the pilot, but the pilot ignored him. In Colombian culture you don't question your superiors.
I've had TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN on my TBR list. Just have not had time to read it yet.
I'm not much interested in self-help books. I figure if I don't know by now at my age, it's kind of a waste of time to try to change.
As to Barnes & Noble, they send me a list of book recommendations periodically. I went to their Book Club section, looked at some of their nonfiction books, and registered with them. I find that Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, D.C. has excellent recommendations in their monthly newsletter.
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In this book the Author Steve Harvey presumes to advise modern women on their relationship problems
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'Presumes' is a good choice of words here, Harold. I don't believe any man can truly see things as a woman sees them. Our brains simply work differently. Not better or worse, but definitely different. There have been some fascinating studies on the subject.
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"I don't believe any man can truly see things as a woman sees them." Babi, Message #225
How true, I gave up trying long ago!
Harold
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;D
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Thanks, Harold!
I browse the B&N site often and my own Library's site online for suggestions for reading, but nothing beats going in person to a bookstore. I do treat myself to a trip now and then and I write down titles that look interesting and reserve them at my Library. I have learned through numerous purchases that a reading of a page or two, or the book jacket, does not a good book make. I have no further room on my bookshelves anyway.
VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!
I never did read that book so popular a few years ago - MEN ARE FROM MARS AND WOMEN FROM VENUS. Did anyone? Does it attempt to explain the differences? I think men and women compliment each other don't you? If we were all alike, how boring!
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I find that Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, D.C. has excellent recommendations in their monthly newsletter.
Politics and Prose is just about the only small independent bookstore left in the DC area. They seem healthy, but I try to get books from them whenever possible to do my bit. They are one of those serendipitous places where you find books you didn't know about, and they also have good f 2 f discussions and many book signings.
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The only thing I know about Politics & Prose is that many of the author talks on Book-TV (CSPAN-2) are held and filmed there. :D
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They're about 5 miles from my house, the second closest bookstore to me.
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The Politics and Prose bookstore has always intrigued me - just the name is intriguing. Sounds like a wonderful place to wander around.
I'm almost finished reading First in His Class, DAvid Mariness' book about Bill Clinton. I'm glad i'm reading it. BC is an enigma. Is he sincere, is he really that curious about everything and everyone? Knowing he's so smart, is every statement a game? Those have been some of my tho'ts as i've watched him thru the yrs. This book implies that he really is curious about everything and really does want to hear about people's lives or theories about everything. I still think he may have honed those skills as he realized that people, especially girls, at first, enjoyed spilling their ideas and life stories to him. But mostly it sounds like that behavior is genuine. Part of it seems to be his small-town-southerness, but then i think "Jimmy Carter doesn't seem to have that same ability to listen." He's also very bright, but prefers to "lecture" rather than listen, IMO.
Any way, i recommend First in His Class. It also reminds us of the angst that the society was going thru in the late 60's and 70's about the draft and Vietnam. i'm just getting into the section about his relationship w/ HIllary. DM gives us a good look at her background too. The book ends at his election in '92.............................jean
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OH, PAT, TO HAVE A BOOKSTORE THAT CLOSE! Heaven!
And, JEAN, you have intrigued me, I will get that book about Bill Clinton. Are you interested in reading the one he wrote? My sister and I are thinking about taking a driving trip together in June and ending up in Arkansas to go to his library.
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Ella - i have the Bob Woodward book about the Clinton admin on TBR list, so that one will be next - sorry, can't remember the title right now, i'll get back to you. I think BC's autobio is huge............i may be sick of him after i finish the first two, but it would be interesting to have his perspective and compare it to what the other two authors have said...............I would be really curious to see his library, lucky you................jean
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The Bob Woodard book on Clinton noted above is The Agenda- Inside the Clinton White House. It was first published in Nov 2005. For more information click the following
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Agenda/Bob-Woodward/e/9780743274074/?itm=1
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JEAN, I meant to get that BC book at the Library, but was in a hurry and forgot it. Instead I grabbed two books from the nonfiction shelves; both look good.
BARBARIANS AT THE GATE, the Fall of RJR Nabisco, by Burrough and Helyar, published in 1990. "One of the greatest business books ever written" said a critic on the New York Times. Reads well; at least the first couple of pages, hahahaaa Something new to read.
ISAAC'S STORM by Erik Larson. For some reason it is very familiar!! Perhaps I've read it before, which has happened on occasion.
I also brought home a CD which I am hoping will catapault me out to the treadmill in the garage to exercise. It is FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT by Ada Huxtable, an architecture critic. This could be a companion to the book we are going to read in fiction in May.
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I own Eric Larson's book, ISAAC'S STORM, about the awful 1900 hurricane storm that destroyed part of Galveston and killed over 6,000 people. Several friends and I were going to drive thru there a while back, but went another way instead, and I've never read the book. It's supposed to be very good.
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MARJIFAY: I am skipping all the detailed scientific parts of the history of weather in the book ISAAC'S STORM. Some might enjoy that, however.
Before I get too far into that book I finished DOWN THE NILE by Rosemary Maloney.
I liked the book, and the sights she saw in Egypt; the historical part of the book. However, I cannot understand her reasoning for rowing on the Nile. She describes her desire to be alone in a rowboat on the water and I keep thinking why in Egypt? She could be alone on the water in a rowboat anyway in the states, but , of course, the book and her adventures could not have been written in this manner. She can speak but little Arabic and a white woman, non-Muslim, even though dressed conservatively, buying a boat and traveling alone arouses great interest among the people, particularly the men who think all western women are sinful and prostitutes.
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The following is a Sept 1998 post I made to the old (now archived ) History Board commemorating the 100th anniversary of the great Galveston Storm:
September 8, 2000 - 08:28 am
Today is the 100th anniversary of the great killer hurricane that struck Galveston, Texas on September 8th & 9th, 1900. How much above 100 MPH the winds were can never be known as the measuring instruments were blown away when they reached that speed. There were as many as 8,000 people killed or missing and presumed dead when the storm finally subsided. This was about 17% of the population (Ap 9,1909) I‘m not now sure of this figure I now think it was much higher) . In terms of lives lost this was the most destructive natural disaster to ever have hit the U.S. The entire island that then was was nowhere more than a few feet above the sea was inundated by gulf tides. Every structure on the island was either swept away or damaged.
At the time the city of Galveston was a thriving port and the commercial center of Texas. There were three very prominent families who were business and civic leaders, the Sealeys, Moody’s and Rosenbergs. Each of these families owned great three story Victorian homes on Broadway with such architectural features as imported Italian marble trim and more importantly a structural steel core. They survive though the lower floors were flooded. It is said that many less secure neighbors were taken-in during the heights of the storm.
After the storm the city went through a decade of re-building. The elevation of the center of the Island was raise several feet by dredged silt pumped from the gulf. More significant a sea wall was built to shield the city from the tidal surge that in 1900 raged unimpeded through the city. Though Galveston never resumed its pre-hurricane position of State commercial leadership it has prospered in this century. Today it is an active port and tourist Mecca. It has had several visits by killer hurricanes since but so far its sea wall has kept the destructive tidal surges from the town.
In a follow-up post I linked the following 1908 photograph made by my Grandfather of a section of the then new seawall
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~hharnold/T006Lg_Pg.htm
Today the left side of the picture showing a section of the new seawall would appear virtually unchanged, but the center and right side will show a 10 lane automobile jammed boulevard with some 20 miles of high rise hotels apartments, and etc.
And:
Click the following Link to review all of the interesting 1998 posts on the oldarchived History Board. http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/general/HistoryBiography/History&HistBiographies6-00.htm
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: Ella Gibbons (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com)
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I tried to go back to look for something in the SN archives, but my bookmarked site wouldn't take me to it. Does anyone know the "address" for it? .................jean
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Here is how I found the old History discussion archive that I referenced in my earlier post:
1 From the main Seniorslearn discussion menue scroll down and click"Archived Pre 2007 Book discussions."
2. From the resulting page scroll down the 8- Item list to again click "Archived Pre 2007 Discussions."
3. Depending on the nature of the discussion you want to access, choose from the Menu Fiction, NON Fiction, or General Book Discussions.
For example, to choose the old History Discussion Archive I Clicked the General Book Discussion option and click the History Discussion I was looking for.
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HAROLD, the recovery of Galveston from this latest hurricane is going very slowly. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a decade to rebuild, and I suspect
many who left will not return again. Galveston is so vulnerable. I heard stories of the one that hit when my Mother was a tiny girl, and was carried pig-a-back through the flood by her Dad.
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Thanks Harold...................Marni from SN hasn't joined any of the SL sites, had anyone heard from her? She was so active in the non-fiction discussions, i've just wondered if she's o.k............................jean
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No one knows about MARNIE. I remember she had illness in the family when SN went down, but we all hope she will return someday.
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Try this short-cut by clicking the following: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=181.0 The choose from Fiction, Nonfiction or General Book discussions.
You might want to bookmark this page for future use. I suspect your problem is that you failed to strictly follow the 2nd step to scroll down the 8 item table to click the last item. Pre 2007 discussions. Instead you went all the way to the bottom of the page to click another apparent Pre 2007 Link that dos'nt work.
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Recently I read a short biography of John Steinbeck, who had a very difficult time of it attempting to support himself as a writer and often had to go back to his parents for a place to wash up and get something to eat. But once he sold a book which became a movie his troubles were over.
A couple of his last books, TRAVELS WITH CHARLEY, and EAST OF EDEN, sounded interesting so I looked for them at the library. Not one Steinbeck book was on the shelves, so I had to request one. What a shame. As you know, he wrote about the human spirit in dealing with such hard times as the Great Depression, the Dust Bowl and poverty
Two years before he died, Steinbeck wrote about how American literature had developed in his own lifetime. I quote:
"Perhaps someone knows how the great change came which elevated American writing from either weak imitation or amusing unimportance to a position of authority in the whole world, to be studied and in turn imitated. It happened quickly. A Theodore Dreiser wrote the sound and smell of his people; a Sherwood Anderson perceived and set down secret agonies long before the headshrinkers discovered them. Suddently the great ones stirred to life: Willa Cather, then Sinclair Lewis, O'Neill, Wolfe, Hemingway, Faulkner. There were many others, of course; poets, short story writers, essayists like Benchley and E.B.White.
Their source was identified; they learned from our people and wrote like themselves, and they created a new thing and a grand thing in the world - an American literature about Americans. It was and is no more flattering than Isaiah was about the Jews, Thucydides about the Greeks, or Tacitus, Suetonius, and Juvenal about the Romans; but, like them, it has the sweet, strong smell of truth. And as had been so in other ages with other peoples, the Americans denounced their glory as vicious, libelous, and scandalous falsehood - and only when our literature was accepted abroad was it welcomed home again and its authors claimed as Americans."
I don't know what to think about that last sentence, does anyone have an idea?
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Greetings -
I think that his final sentence illustrates the statement made in the Bible and in various forms else where : There is no prophet without honor except in his own country, among his own kin and in his own house ...
It carries over in all aspects of life/business ... notice how often there is an "in house" authority on a topic i.e. technology etc - who is not paid attention to or rejected - but someone 50 miles or so away is brought in - at expense - to say the same thing that the local person already said. Goes on all the time in education. Often the local person is recruited by other communities to do the same thing.
Once they are recognized for their excellence by outsiders - then the local community/country claims them as their own. Must be "human nature".
Mary
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Travels with Charley is one of our favorite books of all time! Our girls all had to read it in high school and unanimously hated it. I should suggest they read it again and see what they think now. Actually, I probably should read it again and see what I think. ::)
I read Bold Spirit on my Kindle and loved it. I ordered a hard copy to send to my 89-year-old aunt, then to pass on to our 20-year-old granddaughter. My aunt loved it. I'm in the middle of The Big Rich, and am fascinated with it! I grew up in Texas in the 40s and 50s, and am very familiar with all those names. I'm sending a copy of that to my aunt, too. Thanks to those who recommended both of them.
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Wasn't Bold Spirit an amazing story? To go thru all of that struggle and time and then not to have happen what she expected to happen - i won't spoil it for folks who may read it in the future. And to be treated so badly by the people in her hometown and her family that she didn't even talk about it to her children and grandchildren. The Fates had to have a hand in getting this story out.......her dgt in law keeping the written story instead of throwing it out as the dgts were doing.........the grandson writing about her for the essay contest..........the husband of the author being a judge of the contest and suggesting she look into the story. It was all so senendipitous. I like that part almost as much as the actual story. Glad you enjoyed it MaryZ...............jean
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I particular want our granddaughter to read it, jean, because she's the most likely one to see that stories like that get collected and saved (also her mom). I know there are lots of things that I don't know about our family. And those who DO know are long dead. Sighhhhhhh!
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I was able to tape conversations with my mother, her sister and my Dad's sister. I will forever regret that I didn't think about this - or, really, have the opportunity - to do with my Dad.
A few years ago, I put together an album about my late husband as a Christmas gift to our sons and his sister. Unfortunately, there are no personal stories from him, either but I was able to write some things I knew about each phase of his life. It isn't fancy; I did it all on my computer and printed out the pages myself. I made copies for the gifts and kept the original pages in a 3-ring notebook in my file cabinet.
Now, I'm slowly working on my own story. I took a class at the local Senior Center which helped me make an outline and start a 3-ring notebook divided into chronological sections. I have pictures (not sorted) relating to each section tucked into a top loader with each section. Of course, I keep thinking of things I want to include in the outline - and finding more pictures for possible use. By the time it's finished, it may be too heavy to lift!
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Good for you, Callie! I need to check our community college and university continuing programs for that type of class. We can take classes at any state school for free (over 60).
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MaryZ, the lady who teaches the class here offers it in various places - the Senior Center, the library, a church, etc. I'm not sure she has a schedule; I see the announcement in the paper every once in a while.
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We'll vote the first week in May for future book discussions. Some good titles in the header right now - still time to add some more. We're looking for books that you think might make for a good group discussion.
The Suggestion Box is open here! (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.0)
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I am waiting somewhat patiently for several nonfiction books at the Library. The one about Frances Perkins seems to be popular as the waiting list for it is long. And I have one to pick up about Brigham Young.
So much depends upon the author!
This morning I listened to an lecture on C-Span3 (History) by Simon Winchester (2005) about San Francisco and the earthquake. He made an interesting point. European cities - old ones like London, Paris, Berlin, St. Petersburg - have been there forever with no great disasters because they were built in the right place. There are ruins in Europe of cities that were not and tourists love to roam there (Pompeii). He speculated on cities we have built in the USA, particularly New Orleans, which he said should never have been built.
His next book was about China. Perhaps I've read it, I'll have to look at it.
Has anyone read any of his books? He's a good speaker.
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MaryZ, TRAVELS WITH CHARLEY was a favorite of mine also. Read it years ago. Maybe I'll re-read it now that you and Ella mentioned it.
I also loved Steinbeck's EAST OF EDEN which was wonderful--the best book I read last year.
Can't imagine a library without any Steinbeck, Ella. Where do you live?
I'm only sorry I've never gotten to the Steinbeck museum in Salinas, CA yet.
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Hello Marj! There are Steinbecks in our Library, just not at the moment any at our branch. We have _____upteen branches of the Library and when I put a reserve on a book (at my computer), I get the book at my branch in 3-4 days and I get a note sent to me on my computer.
How sweet it is!
The books shift around at my branch; some old ones appear now and then, new ones; many childrens' books.
Did any one else see GREY GARDENS last night on HBO? Do you remember the hullabooloo that occurred in the press when the mother and daughter was uncovered (by reporters in a documentary) in abject poverty when Jackie Kennedy was the Queen of America? They were cousins I believe; she did rescue them from their horrible living conditions. Jessica Lange was wonderful in the mother role; I haven't decided what I think about Drew Barrymore yet.
I attempted to get the documentary and I was 53rd on the list. I'll wait!
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I remember "Travels with Charley" with great pleasure. I wasn't sure I would like it when I picked it up, but found it a happy choice. I've only read a couple of his books. He was undoubtedly a great writer, but I found his themes heavy sledding for the young and optimistic soul I was then. Now I'm old enough not
to want to burden myself with dreariness and melancholy.
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Ella, I saw "Grey Gardens" but did not remember the story - probably because I was living on a mountain top in Colorado and not paying attention. <smile>
What a pitiful story. I don't care to watch the documentary.
I agree about Jessica Lange and thought Jeanne Tripplehorn (of "Big Love") was very good as Jackie Kennedy. What do you question about Drew Barrymore's characterization?
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Hi Callie. Perhaps the worst thing you can say of an actor is that he/she was "acting." That was my impression of Drew Barrymore.
Both actresses, Jessica and Drew, seemed to be speaking in an unnatural way, faintly reminding me of the way that Jackie Kennedy spoke and I am wondering if it is ingrained in the family to speak in such a measured manner. Jessica seemed to be true to her character, but not Drew.
The documentary has become a cult and it was stated in an interview that both actresses worked very hard knowing their parts would be scrutinized carefully. I remain open minded until I see the documentary.
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Hi, Ella. I read an interview with Drew Barrymore in which she said she watched the documentary several times to get the speech pattern right.
I've never lived "back East" so don't know if that manner of speaking is typical.
I agree that Jessica Lange seemed more natural in her role.
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I found and bought the second Wally Lamb on the prisoners writing project in Connecticut. It is quite good and much to my surprise and delight, he mentions our Ginny and the Senior Net library project. Nice to be recognized for trying to help. I remember how much Ginny sent off..
These essays are not particularly how they got to prison, but snips of their lives. Interesting.
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Today, April 22nd is Earth Day. The following link is to a Barnes & Noble email promotion with catalog links to over a dozen book titles appropriate for Earth Day reading:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/container/2-3-merch.asp?r=1&PID=27095
For more information on Earth Day in the United States go to the Earth Day home page at http://earthday.envirolink.org
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Hello Harold!
Thanks for the links. Our paper had a huge section devoted to Earth Day with graphics showing exactly what happens to recyclables. Where each goes, what good they do. So many are re-used, which is good to know.
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Regarding Ella’s recent post on John Steinbeck’s “Travels With Charley, I vaguely remember reading this book. Charley was Steinbeck’s old dog that according to text on the dust cover was afflicted with a prostrate problem. Charley was Steinbeck’s motor-home travel companion. My recollection of it is that it was an interesting fun reading, but today in my memory its importance ranks far below three other far more memorial travel accounts. These are the John James Audubon “1826 Journal,” Francis Parkman’s “Oregon Trail,” and Rudard Kipling's “American Notes.”
I also have a copy of Francis Parkman’s journals, “The Journals of Francis Parkman,” two volumes, Edited by Mason Wade and published by Harper Brothers in 1947. This is an interesting publication because it contains not only Parkman’s original day by day field accounts of his 1845 trek through the west, but also his accounts of his many other travels including his early 1840s grand tour of Europe and his field trips through eastern Canada gathering material for his major work on the 18th century English/French strugge for control of North America.
I will in the future post further details on the Parkman and Kipling titles. For now the following is copied from my earlier post on the now archived pre 2007 History and Biography board about the John James Audubon “1826 Journal”
Harold Arnold
June 26, 2000 - 01:08 pm
Here is a comment on a post regency/pre Victorian travel journal that I found to double as a social history of the time. The book that I am referring to is “The 1826 Journal of John James Audubon” edited by Alice Ford, University of Oklahoma Press, 1966 (Library of Congress #66-22713). This book describes the 1826 trip of the author from his home in Kentucky to the United Kingdom to publish his life work, ”The Birds of North America.” Apparently in the early 19th Century, the publishing expertise in the United States was unable to print the color reproductions required. (Added April 24, 2009) This is not entirely true. I now know Audubon knew that a rival ornithologist was favored in Philadelphia. Apparently he was not sure of a favorable reception there, and choose to go to England to avoid an embarrassing conflict.)
I was first attracted to this book because of the description of the riverboat trip from Kentucky to New Orleans where Audubon booked passage on a cotton cargo sailing ship, the Delos. There are interesting accounts and sketches of the voyage. It took two months, half of which was spent in the doldrums in the Gulf where the sighting of another vessel aroused concern lest it turn out to be a pirate. Once in the Atlantic the voyage went faster but Audubon showed boredom leading to several afternoon bouts with a bottle of Porter the effect of which left several journal entries illegible to his 20th century editor.
In Liverpool Audubon introduced himself through letters of introduction to several “middle class” families, meaning rich merchant intellectual types. These were principally the Roscoe and Rathbone families. It is amazing how easily and how quickly he was accepted into their circle. The friendship of his own in-laws, the Bakewells, was much more difficult to establish (This included his wife’s sister’s husband who was a Liverpool merchant). A showing of his bird pictures at the Liverpool establishment of the prestigious Royal Society was quickly arranged. A similar showing followed in Manchester while contact was being established with publishing experts in Edinburgh.
There is a wonderful account of the long stage trip between Liverpool and Edinburgh. Ten years later Audubon could have went by train. Here Audubon continued his easy association with the intellectual, professional and business elite. This contact led to meetings with a young Lord Stanley (the pre Stanley Cup, Stanleys) and Sir Walter Scott. It also led later to Audubon's election as a member of the Royal Society. The publication of his bird pictures began. This apparently involved the etching of copper plates that were used to make two-tone prints (Black and white or maybe sepia and white). The prints were hand colored with transparent light oils and sold by subscription at a price only the very rich could afford.
One negative fact to emerge from this reading that came as a surprise to me, was that John James Audubon was no ecologist. His method of painting birds and animals was to shoot the creature dead and by wires and supports pose the body in a natural and characteristic position for sketching and painting. While in Edinburgh he actually executed a street cat to make one of his better-known non-bird art works. Though John James Audubon is not recognized to-day as a great artist, he is recognized as a great ornithologist and his works in this field to-day remain significant. To me the significance of this book lies in neither ornithology nor art, it lies in its description of the society in which the actors, John James Audubon, the Rathbone family, the Roscoes, Bakewells, and many others played their parts.
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Please sir, Harold, can I have some more?
My reading of travel journals has been limited. The most notable has been Dana's Two Years Before the Mast. Recently, I read The Places in Between where the author, Rory Stewart, walked across Afghanistan shortly after the Russians left.
I love to use maps to follow characters or principals around as I did with the above. The first were Oliver Twist and Two Years Before the Mast. In Latin class, we've tried to follow Caesar around on campaign in Britain. I've followed explorers, military campaigns, and adventurers with maps.
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Interesting, FRYBABE. I had never thought of "Two Years Before the Mast" as a travel journal. Of course, it's been a very long time since I read it, so I don't remember it well, only that it was the story of a man who was shanghaied and
forced to serve on a sailing ship for two years.
Oliver Twist? You'll have to explain that one to me.
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Babi,
Dana was not shanghaied but signed on as a working hand aboard ship, sailing from Boston Harbor on August 14, 1834.
He had become ill with measles during his Junior year at Harvard. This apparently affected his eyesight. He always liked the sea and on recommendation from several physicians, he decided to take a sea voyage. He didn't want to go as a passenger as he thought that would give him too much leisure time to read thereby counteracting his goal to give his eyes time to become strong again. After returning home he completed his studies and became a lawyer specializing in maritime law and the rights of merchant seamen. He also wrote To Cuba and Back: A Vacation Voyage and Elements of International Law.
For Oliver Twist, I had a city map of London to locate places and streets Dickens mentioned. The internet makes it all the more exciting, now, because we have ready access to more maps, old photos and the like of places mentioned.
Steve Berry's The Templar Legacy was based on real people and a real church/monastery. So, when I did a search I was able to see the real deal. It is a fascinating story even without Mr. Berry's fictionalized overlay. http://www.renneslechateau.com Have a look.
In our Latin class, someone is always finding pix of old maps and places mentioned in the writings of likes of Caesar, Pliny, Cicero, not to mention the archaeological digs and historical sleuthing done my modern (and not so modern) experts. It all makes history, places and people come alive for me.
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You surprised me, FRYBABE. I was sure Dana had been shanghaied. Well, it
was a very long time ago that I read it, and I may have confused it something else since then. Thanks for setting me straight.
I also like to follow any maps that the books include. I keep going back to
the map to follow the route. Since many of those 'maps' are about fictional
lands, I haven't tried to find them on-line. ::)
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Anyone reading a book that's interesting?
I am finishing one about the Stanford White murder of 1920 (but I wouldn't recommend it) and one that I would is the Frances Perkins book. I am contemplating offering that one for discussion sometime in the fall.
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Yes, as noted in the Library, I'm reading The Big Rich and it's incredible, about the original Dallas TV type oil barons, who knew that was not just a Dallas joke? Along the way I'm learning a LOT about the oil business, I recommend it heartily!
I've gotten to where I really like non fiction.
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I'm reading the Worst Hard Time by Timothy Egan. It was mentioned here earlier.
My Grandfather lost his farm during the dust bowl years, so it's interesting to read the history of the times.
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HEY GINNY! I just got notice that my reserved copy of the Big Rich is in at the Library so will pick it up and take a look. I am sure I will enjoy it as I read your post and one other in our Library site! Yes, let's think about a discussion!
Before or after Texas secedes from the Union? Hahahaaaa Or breaks up into five states? Think of the clout they would have in the Senate?
HELLO NLHOME. Yes, I recommended the Worst Hard Time. A good book!
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Why does no one believe us? (sigh) You would be surprised, GINNY, how many of the Texas 'jokes' are fact. (Most, of course, are tall tales for the greenhorns. ::) )
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I am also reading The Worst Hard Time by timothy Egan. I love the way he weaves together eyewitness accounts of the Dust Bowl years, and the families that went through it. What a great cautionary tale about caring for the land. It supported bison for thousands of years, and was destroyed in a decade by crop farming. I wonder how conditions are today in Boise City and Dalhart? I hope ;to read more by Egan.
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Since this is the 50th anniversary of the end of the 1960's, i'm facilitatiang 3 discussions at our library about the 50's and the 60's. The first one is "Seeds of the Sixties," or, the 1950's. That discussion has already taken place. The next one is the cultural sixties and the third one is the political sixties - yes, they are difficult to separate, but we are going to try.
So, i've been reading some books that talk about that era. David Halberstam has a mostly political book titled The Fifties, which is a good look at the politics that were happening - especially the Cold War. Halberstam also worte a great book about the desegration of Central H.S. in Little Rock, titled "The Children." I love Halberstam's style of writing.
David FArber has two good books on the sixties. One is a book of essays by various authors which FArber edited. It includes topics on Viet Nam, Civil RTs, Women's Liberation, the youth culture and the "silent majority." The other book, which he authored is The Age of Great Dreams: America in the 1960's. It covers many of the same topics in Farber's easily read style. It's hard to believe that those events took place more than 50 yrs ago.
I love that title because i have said to my college students, many times, that in 1970 many of us tho't we would have all the problems (civil rts, women's rts, environment, poverty, wars, etc.) solved by the year 2000! Now it seems to me that problems are never solved, they just keep evolving, or getting pushed back a step for every step that we seem to make in progress.
Is it left to the young to dream of better times ahead? .......................jean
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Gosh, Jean, wish I could be at your Library and get in on those discussions; they all sound terrific.
Is it left to the young to dream of better times ahead?
- I think you answered this question by this remark:
Now it seems to me that problems are never solved, they just keep evolving,
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Bellemere, http://www.ccccok.org/ (http://www.ccccok.org/) Scroll down to read about Boise City and click on small photos to see pictures.
http://www.dalhart.org/photo_gallery/photo_gal.htm (http://www.dalhart.org/photo_gallery/photo_gal.htm) Click on links for pictures of Dalhart. Click on links in left-hand column for more information.
http://books.simonandschuster.com/That-Old-Ace-in-the-Hole/Annie-Proulx/9780743242486 (http://books.simonandschuster.com/That-Old-Ace-in-the-Hole/Annie-Proulx/9780743242486) for a review of Annie Proulx' novel "That Old Ace In The Hole", which is about the TX and OK panhandles in more recent years.
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The VOTE IS ON! May 1 - May 5
After reading reviews of the nominated titles,
in the Suggestion Box (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.40)- please vote for future Book Club Online discussions.
Thanks!
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: Ella Gibbons (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com)
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I just finished reading "The Forgotten Man". IMO, it is an excellent book about the "Great Depression". So much of what went on then, is going on now.
Now, I am back to reading "A Savage Peace". It is the story of what was happening in 1919. One of the things that I have learned so far, is that thousands of American troops were still stationed in Russia. They had been sent to Russia partly to fight the Nazis, but also to protect American business interests. So, seven months after the Armitace, our troops where being killed, and maimed.
These troops were short of supplies. Communications with loved ones, was almost non enexistent. Senator Hiram Johnson, of California, lead a protest to alert American citizens about what was happening.
It makes me wonder if that will happen with our troops in both Iraq, and Afganistan.
Sheila
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About 5 years ago Ella & I led a discussions on Margaret Macmillian's book on the Peace Conference that ended WWI Its title was "Paris 1919." I know a British contingent was In Russia to support the White counter to the red communist regime that was in power under Lenin. I did not know Americans were involved. In any case they were fighting the Communists, not the Nazis.
Clich the following for the Archived discussion of Margaret Macmillian's "Paris 1919".
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Paris1919.html
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HAROLD, I have "Paris, 1919. Just haven't begun reading it, yet. I am looking forward to reading it, when I finish "Savage Peace".
Wilson sent the American troops to Russia, while WWI was still going on. They were to fight against the Nazi. The war ended November 11, 1918, of course. However, they began fighting the Bolsheviks (? sp) and they were still there, in May of 1919. The author writes that Michigan troops were there in high numbers. People in Michigan collected signatures on petitions, and took them to D.C. But, it wasn't until Senator Hiram Johnson became his campaign to bring the boys home, that Congress began to take some action.
I am just amazed by both this situation, and the similarity both the Depression, and American troops being in Russia.
Sheila
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That is a terrble last sentence. I meant the comparision between those two situations, and what is happening to the world today.
Sheila
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The following is further comment on "American Notes," by Rudyard Kipling that I promised in aqn earlier post.
In 1889, Rudyard Kipling at the time an editor on an India publication “Allahabad Pioneer, made a West to East tour of the U.S. It would seem the publisher was embarrassed by Kipling’s lampooning of certain high officials in the India Colonial Government and chose the tour of the U.S as a means of getting him temporarily out of India. Kipling traveled by Steamship first to Japan and on to San Francisco where he quickly related to the Wild West culture of the day that he described in this book. Included were colorful descriptions of exclusive San Francisco Saloons in particular he liked the free lunch served in the Saloons). He also visited a Chinese Opium Den. Kipling made a hurried exit after witnessing a murder.
From San Francisco Kipling traveled by train north up the coast to the mouth of the Columbia where he visited a Salmon canning factory that was built on pilings over the river for convenient garbage disposal, He seems to have been familiar with the product remarking that it was what every hostess kept available lest she have unexpected dinner guests. He gave a rather complete verbal description of the process including the stuffing of the can, the lead Soldering-on of the lid with one small air hole, its cooking in a steam pressure cooker followed by the immediate sealing of the hole with additional lead solder.
Kipling continued his American trip with a train journey to the then new Yellowstone National Park. His description of the trip with the train speeding through the day and night on primitive first generation tottering wooden bridge strictures over canyons hundreds of feet deep would terrify the modern traveler. Kipling wrote an impressively descriptive account of the train racing through the night with all the men passengers drunk and armed to the teeth with rifles and pistols. The few women, some with children were terrified
From Yellowstone Kipling continued to Chicago and on to the east before continuing on east, eventually returning to India. This book for is an outstanding example of interesting descriptive writing an art the practice of which the author has few peers.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/American-Notes/Rudyard-Kipling/e/9781406503081/?itm=2
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As often happens when there are so many nominations, the results tend to be scattered. So that we come up with the title for the next book discussion with the most interest, we have set up a new poll with the top FIVE contenders. You will only get to vote for one of them this time.
Before opening your ballot, please be sure that you are familiar with the following titles so you know what they are each about - (You can learn about them by clicking the title in the chart in the heading at the top of the page in the Suggestion Box Discussion (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.msg22093#msg22093))
The Last Dickens by Pearl (read together with The Mystery of Edwin Drood by Dickens)
The Book Thief by Zusak
People of the Book by Brooks
Bridge of Sighs by Russo
The Story of Edgar Sawtelle by Wroblewski
VOTE HERE: Run-off Vote for Future Book Discussions (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=sRwHjzi3QWJUqOTWw_2f1fNw_3d_3d)
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All of these titles appear to me to be fiction. The attached links will give you information on each of them. All, based on their B&N “Sales Rank,” qualify as best sellers with three of them ranking below 1000.
The Last Dickens by Pearl (read together with The Mystery of Edwin Drood by Dickens)
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Last-Dickens/Matthew-Pearl/e/9781400066568/?itm=1
The Book Thief by Zusak http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Book-Thief/Markus-
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Book-Thief/Markus-Zusak/e/9780375842207/?itm=1
1
People of the Book by Brooks
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/People-of-the-Book/Geraldine-
Bridge of Sighs by Russo
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Bridge-of-Sighs/Richard-Russo/e/9781400030903/?itm=1
The Story of Edgar Sawtelle by Wroblewski
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Story-of-Edgar-Sawtelle/David-Wroblewski/e/9780061768064/?itm=1
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Hi Harold,
Yes they are all fiction and Joan Pearson ask anyone to suggest some non-fiction so these are some of mine.
Ghost Train to the Eastern by Paul Theroux
The Glass Castle by Jeanette Walls
The Middle of Everywhere by Mary Bray Pipher (any of her books are a treasure read)
The Devil's Playground by James Traub[/b]
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OH, GOSH, DO I HAVE IDEAS FOR NONFICTION BOOKS!
Having just returned from an Elderhostel vacation in the Hudson River Valley, I find myself overwhelmed with history and ideas for books to read and despite my resolution not to purchase books I did and had to carry them home on two flights. Darn, and they were heavy!
I brought home a book about the early years of John D. Rockefeller, one about FDR and Lucy Mercer, a Vanderbilt book and notes to get the following from the Library:
My Closest Company (a book about FDR and Daisy Suckley, whose home we toured)
A book about Henry Hudson which includes the early history of the Hudson Valley
A book about the Tiffany brothers
Books by Russell Shorsto, particularly one entitled (I think) The Island in the Center of the Earth
A book about Jay Gould
Has anyone read any of the above?
Have you an idea for a good book to discuss?
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My trip was one of the best I have been on I believe, despite the long days and the hours on a bus. We saw and were lectured on the following Hudson Valley Mansions:
LOCUST GROVE - Samuel Morse, Telegraph
KYKUIT, Rockefeller, petroleum
LYNDHURST, Gould, railroads
MILLS, Mills, Banking
SPRINGWOOD, FDR, International trade
Vanderbuilt, transportation
WILDERSTEIN, Suckley, International trade
They were all magnificent, but I would have to say that the Rockefeller estate was the most impressive; FDR's home the warmest, Daisey's the most interesting.
Fun, fun! Nice people!
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Hey, Ella, welcome home.
Of your list of books, we have read and discussed only one, Russell Shorto's "The Island at the Center of the Earth". Most interesting.
I want to add another non-fiction to my list:
"Losing Mum & Pup" by Christopher Buckley, Wm F Buckley's son.
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One of the nonfiction books I just picked up to read is The Great Game: The Struggle for Empire in Central Asia (Kodansha Globe) by Peter Hopkirk. Hopkirk also wrote Quest for Kim: In Search of Kipling's Great Game which I have yet to order.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=peter+hopkirk+the+great+game&sprefix=peter+hopkirk
I found Seven Years in Tibet by Heinrich Harrer quite interesting, read way before the movie came out. The movie was better than I expected.
Gertrude Bell: Queen of the Desert, Shaper of Nations by Georgina Howell. I haven't read this yet, but my Mom has. She found it very interesting. In fact, I don't think she could put it down for long gauging from the speed at which she read through it.
Another recent purchase in the TBR pile is The Affair: The Case of Alfred Dreyfus by Jean-Denis Bredin. http://www.amazon.com/Affair-Case-Alfred-Dreyfus/dp/0807611751/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242492118&sr=1-1
Ella, your book about Henry Hudson and early Hudson Valley history sounds interesting. The Hudson and Genesee Valleys are rich in early colonial, revolutionary war and French and Indian War histories. It is something on which I would like to expand my knowledge. The Hudson Valley is also rich in artistic and literary inspiration.
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Hello Ann! I heard Christopher Buckley, son of William T., on BookTV not too long ago, and was impressed by all he has written. Surprisingly that memoir of his parents that you mentioned is a humorous one by all accounts. I do want to read it.
Hi Frybabe: Those books look VERY interesting. I didn't know there was a movie about Seven Years in Tibet and must look it up at the Library. Gertrude Bell books have been around for while and I think I read one and, yes, they are all good about this marvelous woman.
The Dreyfus Affair. It's so familiar and yet I cannot think of the details - what it was about. Of course, I have Google which is so-s-so helpful! I'll look it up.
But I have NO BOOK on Henry Hudson and I want one. So many fascinating details were brought up in a lecture I heard and I want to pursue them, so I will soon be looking for a good one at the Library or the Book store.
I was hoping one of you could suggest one.
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Ella, No I can't recommend any books about Henry Hudson - yet. I have read some of Carl Carmer's work (Genesee Fever, a novel, and Listen to a Lonesome Drum, folklore and myths). Carl Carmer contributed to something called the River Series, by writing a book about the Hudson River and one about the Susquehanna River (just a third of a mile from my home). Both of these I intend on buying some day. I believe that Columbia University Press (I think I have the right Univ.) still prints them.
Within the last two years or so several TV programs focused on the French and Indian War and the American Revolution in the area which have peeked my interest in actually going up the Hudson some day. I would love to take the Adirondack up along the Hudson and stop to see such places Stonybrook Battlefield and Fort Ticonderoga. It would also be neat to see some of the scenery that inspired such literature as Rip Van Winkle and Legend of Sleepy Hollow not to mention all the great artwork.
...And then, too, my best friend has a family connection to Mad Anthony Wayne. Genealogy and history are big subjects in his family.
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The book we are discussing now, "Three Cups of Tea", by Greg Mortenson and Daniel Relin, is excellent. We have an enthralling story, full of information and insights on the people, culture, and political situation in Pakistan and Afghanistan for the last two decades. You find yourself involved with the people you meet in this book, their hopes and their struggle.
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FRYBABE - If you get a chance to do so, you will be enchanted by the Hudson River Valley and the scenery; I cannot remember when I have seen such views. I won't even attempt to describe them, you should see them for yourself. The Gilded Age folks, those wealthy enough, built their homes with a view and what a view!!! Have I emphasized the "view" enough?????
I am in no mood for a war book but a biography of Henry Hudson appeals to me.
Hi BABI.
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Ella and Frybabe,
I just received an email from the NYC Museum about this program on May 20th by Russelll Shorto about Henry Hudson Legacy. Now this has to be very psychic! Here's the link:
http://www.mcny.org/public-programs/lectures/ussell-Shorto:The-Accidental-Legacy-of-Henry-Hudson.html
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Thanks Adoannie, I checked the exhibition schedule and found that "Amsterdam/New Amsterdam: The Worlds of Henry Hudson" runs between April 4 and Sept. 27 at the museum.
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Well, darn, I'm not in NYC, but that's the book! That's the book that was mentioned on my trip, so I have it reserved at my library.
I hope it is a good read! He's an interesting fellow.
Shorto wrote a number of books, I must look them up. Anyone read any of his books?
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THANKS, ANN! I HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH ALL MY NOTES YET FROM THE TRIP, BUT I RECOGNIZED THAT TITLE RIGHT AWAY!
NOW, WILL YOU DO MY LAUNDRY? HAHAHAAA
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One of the homes I toured in the Hudson Valley was Wilderstein, Daisy Suckley's home. She was a fifth cousin of FDR, as was Eleanor, and very close to him. He confided in her and claimed she was more knowledgeable about the problems facing the country than he was and he used her as a companion and a confidant.
I read a small paperback book about FDR and Lucy and it tells the story of all the female friends that FDR delighted in; he helped them with their decisions, often helping in appointments and finances. Father and friend to the females.
Daisy was homely, wore her hair straight back in a knot, didn't try to impress but she was warm and friendly and loved her dogs. She gave Fala to FDR; outlived most of them living to the age of 100. There was a grainy video, black and white, of an interview with her shortly before she died in the sixties and she was asked why she didn't paint her house - a huge thing on the Hudson River. She answered that she had painted it several times over her lifetime and it is rusting away as she is; however the house is now in the National Historic Trust and is being repainted.
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Here is the site showing the house; if you click on Restoration it goes into great detail of what the Historic Trust is doing, but this paragraph tells the story:
http://www.wilderstein.org/
"When Wilderstein was established as a not-for-profit institution in the early 1980s, the house and grounds were in a severe state of decay. The exterior of the mansion had not been painted since 1910, windows from the tower were missing, and water had penetrated the failing roof."
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'...she was asked why she didn't paint her house - a huge thing on the Hudson River. She answered that she had painted it several times over her lifetime and it is rusting away as she is; however the house is now in the National Historic Trust and is being repainted.'
That's wonderful. Wilderstein deserves to be restored and preserved. But what an undertaking, to paint that place. What an architectural wilderness. Isn't it interesting that Daisy wanted her place to grow old along with her. It's unfortunate that nothing can be done for rusty Daisy.
The last dozen posts have brought it all back. The wonderful journey my wife and I did along the Hudson Valley a few years ago. There just has to be a good book in here somewhere that would make for a good discussion.
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Hi Jonathan! You loved the Valley also I see, the history there is fabulous and the views, did I mention the views!
I agree, there should be a book here somewhere. Of course, we could read an autobiography of any one of these people who built these grand mansions; who controlled the railroads, the ports, communication, finance. But that's not what I want.
Do you know that most of these robber barons (as they are called) could have the railroad stop at their home while they hooked on their own private car - all except Jay Gould, whom none of them liked. He had no influence with the railroads so he bought a huge yacht and made a show of getting on his private boat to go to the city. Most of these people knew each other and could walk or ride their horses to visit.
It would be a book regarding the late 1800's, early 20th century, I would think.
Let's all browse around and find one that looks good. Meanwhile I will look at Shorto's book.
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Regarding the History of the Hudson River valley, my exposure was through my 2003 Seniorsnet/Books discussion of Francis Jennings’s “The Ambiguous Iroquois Empire<” http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/AmbiguousIriquoisEmpire.html .
The Hudson’s European intrusion began in the 17th century by the Dutch West Indian Company whose trading ships sailed up the Hudson where they would chain their ship to trees lining the shore to trade with Iroquois. This early trading operation led to the promotion of the Iroquois Confederation by the creation of the “Covenant Chain,” as a trading association in which the Iroquois came to occupy a favored position over other tribes throughout much of the North East. This was an area that extended from Canada as far South as Virginia. In effect it resulted in the creation of what the historian Francis Jennings called “The Ambiguous Iroquois Empire” in which throughout the last half of the 17th and the first half of the 18th century , most all colonial Indian trade with all area Indians went through the Iroquois.
This book was not a great book for a Seniorsnet discussion because it was really written for professional historians. Jennings writing style was not really for the popular reader. It really required effort to understand. Nevertheless when it was over I was much impressed with Jennings’s most scholarly writing and his book’s great contribution to American Indian History. In addition to the discussion archive that I linked above I also wrote a Readers Guide that apparently has not survived the transfer from the Seniorsnet site as it is not in the current Seniorlearn menu.
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I found my Reader's Guide to The Ambiguous Iriquois Empire still availaable on the old Seniorsnet board. The folloing is a copy of the Plot Synopsis section or click the following for the complete Guide.
http://www.seniornet.org/php/readerguide.php?GuideID=34&Version=0&Font=1
Plot Synopsis:
In the Preface to this book the author, Francis Jennings, tells us it "is a history neither of the tribes nor of the colonies, but rather of the Covenant Chain that bound them together." The Covenant Chain was the unique 17th and 18th century trade arrangement for the conduct of North American, inter-culture trade between the Northeast tribes and the English Colonies. The Dutch at their Fort Orange colony originally initiated the Covenant Chain early in the 17th century. Later after Fort Orange had become English, renamed Albany, the concept of the chain was refined and formalized by a series of treaties between the tribes and the English. Under these treaties the Iroquois Confederation acquired a particularly strong position of power as middlemen and the agent of other tribes in their trade dealings with the English colonies. This position of Iroquoian power led Jennings to suggest the use of the word, "Empire," to describe the status of the Iroquois Confederation during the last half of the 17th and much of the 18th centuries.
After the Iroquois through a series of successful 17th century inter-tribal conflicts known as "the Beaver Wars" established their position of power, Jennings continues to document the significantly different interpretations of the respective roles of the Iroquois and the English in the Covenant Chain. While the Iroquois never saw the relationship as involving any concession of tribal sovereignty on their part, the English, on the other hand, interpreted the position of the Indians, including the Iroquois, as junior partners, the subordinate agents of the European powers subject to their overall sovereignty.
As Jennings continues his account of the century long story of Iroquois successes and failures, the reader can not help but note the accumulating effect on the Iroquois of the mounting losses from war and pestilence, and the growing pressure from the ever increasing European population. At this point Jennings ends his book with the 1744 Treaty of Lancaster, which, as interpreted by the English, opened the entire Ohio Valley west of the mountains for the European settlement that promptly followed. Though the Iroquois still remained a power in the Covenant Chain, their inevitable decline was poised to follow.
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Hello Harold! Glad you found the Readers Guide. I missed that discussion and it sounds so interesting. What year did you do that one?
This book was mentioned to me and it does look interesting. Anyone read it?
It's called Ligthning Man and is a biography of Samuel Morse, who was a man of many parts.
Morse (1791-1872) is best known as the inventor of the electromagnetic telegraph, but Silverman (English, New York U.) throws light on his many endeavors as a painter, pioneer photographer, the first professor of fine arts at an American college, and republican idealist who ran for Congress and for mayor of New York City. Annotation #169;2004 Book News, Inc., Portland, OR (booknews.com)
It should be well written as the author teaches English at NYC.
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Sounds interesting, Ella. I did find a link to that museum that I mentioned at lunch but had remembered it wrong. So forget about the Morse Museum at Winter Park, FL.
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The book LIGHTNING MAN: The Accursed Life of Samuel F.B.Morse by Kenneth Silverman (winner of the Pulitizer Prize) looks very good. The "accursed business" is explained somewhat in the jacket as follows:
"Morse viewed his existence as accursed rather than illustrious, his every achievement seeming to end in loss and defeat; his most ambitious canvases went unsold; his beloved republic imploded into civil war, making it unlivable for him; and the commercial success of the telegraph engulfed him in lawsuits challenging the originality and ownership of his invention."
I can believe that last sentence; however, those other assertions don't ring true. Ambition does not sell paintings, war happens in the best of times.
Edison did not have too much trouble with his inventions being challenged did he? I can't remember, of course, he came along at a different time. But certainly in Morse's days we had the patent office??
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I like this quote and I think it is still true:
"We are a people essentially active. I may say we are preeminently so. Distance and difficulties are less to us than any people on earth. Our schemes and prospects extend every where and to every thing." - John C. Calhoun, speech in the U.S.Senate, June 24, 1812"
Samuel was born in 1791, the first child of a Congregationalist minister in Massachusetts, near Boston. The family called him Finley and he contracted smallpox when he was 4 years old; he had 6 siblings - only two survived.
I think I'll open the book and settle down to read how Finley became the man we know as the inventor of the telegraph, Samuel B. Morse.
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WHAT ARE YOU READING?
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HEY, HEY, HEY, IS ANYONE AT HOME?
IS ANYONE READING A BOOK?
I have several I can loan you or suggest, if you like.
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HI Ella,
I am into a SciFi at the moment - Elizabeth Moon's Victory Conditions, which is the last of her Vatta series. I will start on Carol Goodman's The Night Villa, on Monday in preparation for the upcoming discussion starting June 1. Sometime in this coming week I will be starting one of the Wallander series books we are discussing in the Masterpiece Mysteries group. After that, I have several non-fiction books clamoring for attention.
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I'll put in my comments on the books I know anything about.
We read Russell Shorto's "Island at the Center of the World" on SeniorNet. He did a remarkably good job of poring through historical documents and getting the real story and a remarkably poor job of telling his story in a way that made sense to a reader. You really had to work hard to figure out what was happening.
Hopkirk's "The Great Game" is one I've been meaning to read for a while. Frybabe, thanks for telling me about "The Quest for Kim", which I didn't know about. Both of these touch on our discussion of "Three Cups of Tea", since they deal with earlier political manipulations in the area. I recently reread "Kim" for a f2f discussion of Edwardian literature, and found it every bit as good as I remember from my youth.
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I don't actually remember if I ever read a Kiplinger book or not when I was little. I kind of think I did, but it could be I just remember seeing Kim and Gunga Din ten million times. It would have been Kim if I did. I know I didn't read Jungle Book. Anyhow, I have Hopkirk's book, a book about Alfred Dreyfus, one about Gertrude Bell and one about the MIddle East just after WWI called The Kingmakers to read soon. I have not ordered In Search of Kim yet.
After just getting my last stack of books, I am up to five on my new to buy list already.
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I looked up the Vada series in my local library, and found the had books 3 & 4, but not 1 & 2. Pity. If I'm going to read a series, I like to have all of them available.
I remember how enthralled I was reading Kim. It was a new arena for me, and I remember trying to remember the ways to identify different groups. The Sikh headdress, for example. I can still recognize that.
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Yes, Babi, with the Vatta series it is best to read from the beginning. I got my hands on book 3 and read that before I realized it was part of a series. Then I went back and read 1 & 2. It explained a few things I puzzled over in book 3.
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Hopkirk's THE GREAT GAME is a very interesting read, as was TOURNAMENT OF SHADOWS by Karl E. Meyers, also about the "great game."
Have never gotten around to reading KIM. Will have to read it now, along with QUEST FOR KIM (thanks, Frybabe).
That was funny, Steph, about your cousin redecorating your room in black. I feel for you parents. My favorite room color back in the 1960s was dark green with lots and lots of green plants (which usually didn't live long, as my thumb, unlike my walls, was not very green.
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You must have had a romance with the forest going back then, Marjifay. I'm no great shakes at gardening either, but I found one plant that seems to thrive under my level of care, and I stick with it. My violets do beautifully, thank goodness. :)
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I'm still reading the Billionaire's Vinegar, which I like very much and am learning a lot from, a good bit on Thomas Jefferson, but more on the business of wine. It's pretty fascinating.
Still reading Rogue's Gallery about the history of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, featuring a huge chapter on our own Thomas Hoving and he's in a lot more, too, fascinating. Almost as good as one of his books.
Am making great headway thru Mary Beard's newest Pompeii book which I read frantically during our Latin classes, it's on Pompeii and it's not a book you should read like I did in bits and pieces, so started it over and I can see why it's shortlisted for a prize: it's really good. Dr. Beard teaches Classics at Cambridge and she has a lot of interesting information on Pompeii. Once you read it, you really do know a lot more, (even tho you may have thought you knew a lot, when you get through you know a lot more. :)
I ran out and bought all of the books I could find by Rosemary Mahoney who wrote Down the Nile. The only one which has come so far is Whoredom in Kimmage, about women in Ireland, and I love the way she writes and can't wait to get into it.
I'm also reading The Library of the Villa dei Papyri by David Sider and if you are remotely interested in ancient books, this one's for you, it's fabulous.
I guess that's about it for me and non fiction so far this month.
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OH, FUN!!
Hearing about all the books you are reading and I would make a list of them for my own pleasure if I didn't already have a list that is impossible to expect to ever succeed reading.
ONE AT A TIME.
Having put aside a delightful book about Frances Perkins, FDR's Secretary of Labor, while taking a vacation in the hills of the Hudson River Valley, I have opened it at my bookmark and this morning have read the following paragraph which I wondered if it is at all pertinent to today's young women. Two women in my family kept their names after marriage.
"Early on in her marriage, she decided to keep her own name. Although she used Mrs. Paul C. Wilson in private and on her passport, professionally Frances kept her last name for various reasons, citing different motives at different times. On one level, she said, she'd been touched by feminist ideas: and was interested in preserving her sense of identity. More pragmatically, she also had seen that in the career world, single women were viewed more favorably than married women.
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That was an interesting paragraph about Frances Perkins you posted Ella. I have that book on my TBR list. I suppose employers preferred single women employees, thinking that married women would become mothers and quit their jobs. I remember all the (now verboten) questions I was asked when applying for a job: How many children do you have? Who takes care of them? Do you intend to have more children? etc. etc. Frances Perkins was a smart cookie.
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HELLO MARJFAY!
Frances Perkins is a fascinating woman, and SMART!!!
But she had rather a sad life. Career women, ambitious woman often have trouble with family issues. On the other hand, how many women get a book written about their lives? Is that a trade-off?
It's a good book!
WOULD YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS IT WITH A FEW OTHERS (hopefully!) IN AUGUST?
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Yes, I'd like to read the Frances Perkins bio (THE WOMAN BEHIND THE NEW DEAL) for an August discussion, Ella. It's only 480 pp, so (unlike Team of Rivals), I could finish it before having to return it to the library.)
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Oh, and thanks, Ella, for your recommendation of Kenneth Silverman's LIGHTNING MAN, about the "accursed" life of Samuel Morse. I looked up that author's other books and found another one of his I'd like to read: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF COTTON MATHER, for which he won a Pulitzer. I'd heard of Mather and always intended to read about him.
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Oh, good! I'll have to get back to you with that proposal!
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Ella,
Sounds like you are in the planning mode for a new discussion. I am interested in reading about Frances Perkins but also would like to read about Samuel Morse.
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HI ANN! That's makes about three of us interested in the book.
Anyone else?
Here is a review:
"Frances Perkins is no longer a household name, yet she was one of the most influential women of the twentieth century. Based on eight years of research, extensive archival materials, new documents, and exclusive access to Perkins’s family members and friends, this biography is the first complete portrait of a devoted public servant with a passionate personal life, a mother who changed the landscape of American business and society.
Frances Perkins was named Secretary of Labor by Franklin Roosevelt in 1933. As the first female cabinet secretary, she spearheaded the fight to improve the lives of America’s working people while juggling her own complex family responsibilities. Perkins’s ideas became the cornerstones of the most important social welfare and legislation in the nation’s history, including unemployment compensation, child labor laws, and the forty-hour work week.
Arriving in Washington at the height of the Great Depression, Perkins pushed for massive public works projects that created millions of jobs for unemployed workers. She breathed life back into the nation’s labor movement, boosting living standards across the country. As head of the Immigration Service, she fought to bring European refugees to safety in the United States. Her greatest triumph was creating Social Security.
Written with a wit that echoes Frances Perkins’s own, award-winning journalist Kirstin Downey gives us a riveting exploration of how and why Perkins slipped into historical oblivion, and restores Perkins to her proper place in history.
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I have requested the book from our library which owns 14 copies which are all checked out and I am 13th on the waiting list. So we will see how long it takes to arrive and if I need to rereserve it later in the summer, around the discussion date.
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ANN, I understand its popularity. The book is well written, but for those of us who are a certain age you will recall, when you read it, many of the problems in the country during the depression, the Roosevelt and the Truman years. Frances was there on the scene during all of that; actually, she was at times the most important member of the team that brought us such programs as social security, the regulation of hours and wages, prohibition of child labor, etc.
Her relationships with family and public figures (whom you will be familiar with if you followed the news back in that era) are fascinating. And there is this:
"Few women had climbed as high in public life as Frances, and many were reluctant to attribute her rise to the simple fact of her proven competence. The public often assumed sex was involved when women took over important posts."
Throughout her life she rose above the stigma of being a woman although it was difficult as she was surrounded by men - men who had achieved much in life and had huge egos.
Appointed by Roosevelt to a cabinet post, she wrestled with this complicated man throughout her life. Here is one paragraph"
"In time, Frances developed a deeper friendship with Franklin Roosevelt than with Eleanor. Indeed, Frances had set out very purposefully to learn how FDR thought and to maximize her effectiveness. Roosevelt appeared extremely complicated from the very first conversation."
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Ella - i would be interested.............jean
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Gertrude Bell, Queen of the Desert, is a wonderful book. Surprised there wasn't more interest in this book during the beginning of the Iraq war because she was so influential during WWI and the drawing of the borders of Iraq. She began the Bagdhad Museum. There are quit a few books about her - a daughter of a wealthy industrialist in England. Wish they would make a movie of her life!
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Kidsal, I bought the Gertrude Bell book about six months ago, but haven't read it yet. I gave it to my Mom to read in the meantime. She enjoyed it immensely. One of these days, I'll get around to reading it.
I've read T.E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom and several of his other books. I know he was not happy about promises to the Arabs not kept and about how the countries were partitioned. What I don't remember is whether he ever mentioned Bell.
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Tongue in cheek.... I just read a mystery short story in which the sleuth was
Alice Roosevelt Longworth, pushed into involvement by her cousin the Sec. of the Navy, Franklin. Whom she fondly dreamed of throttling! It was amusing.
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I'm reading Ayun Halliday's book No Touch Monkey!
It's about a different kind of travel than I do, backpacking, somewhat filthily, through Europe. It's an eye opener, she leaves nothing to the imagination, not the way I want to or would travel, but I'm not in my young 20's any more, and it's fascinating to see the "tricks" that they use to avoid paying hotel rooms etc.
So far it's pretty amazing, actually.
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I'm reading a very interesting book -- THE BITTER ROAD TO FREEDOM; A NEW HISTORY OF THE LIBERATION OF EUROPE by William L. Hitchcock. It was a finalist for the 2009 Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction.
I'm learning a lot of things about WW2 that I never new. A surprising story, often jarring and uncomfortable. Some amazing photos I've never seen of the destruction of towns in the path of the Normandy invasion. Depicts in searing detail the shocking price that Europeans paid for their freedom. The author says he realized that the different experiences of Europeans and Americans of the liberation of Europe was behind their disagreement on invading Iraq.
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MARJIFAY: What a interesting statement you made:
The author says he realized that the different experiences of Europeans and Americans of the liberation of Europe was behind their disagreement on invading Iraq."
Would you elaborate on that, please?
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My copy of the Frances Perkins Biography on order from B&N should arrive before the end of the current week.
Harold
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The Frances Perkins book sounds good to me. August works, too. So, count me in.
Sheila
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HAROLD, you will enjoy the book. You'll recall all of the incidents related in the book, e.g. dockworker strikes, price controls. I had not thought of these things in years but they all came under the Department of Labor which Frances Perkins headed. With the advent of the containers, there is no such thing as dockworkers today - is that true? I don't know, but I don't read of many strikes, do you?
SHEILA, thanks! We're getting a good group together here. We will, however, do a proposal sometime when I get it together!
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Regarding Dock workers today, I suspect the work is much more automated. Instead of gangs of dozens of muscular men carrying 80 pound bags of grain from dock to ship, the grain is blown through large diameter hoses from dockside elevators to the ship. Far fewer dockworkers making good union wages now connect the hoses that deliver the grain to the ship.
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Ella, you asked about the statement from a reviewer regarding the book THE BITTER ROAD TO FREEDOM that "The author says he realized that the different experiences of Europeans and Americans of the liberation of Europe was behind their disagreement on invading Iraq."
I'm only about a third of the way through the book, but I think what the author meant was that the Europeans realized that what happened to them would be the fate of a great number of Iraqis. On D-Day alone, some 3,000 French civilians were killed, roughly as many as the number of American soldiers who lost their lives on that day. And that was only the beginning. The Germans were entrenched in the towns, villages, farms, hospitals and other buildings, and the allies' bombing and straffing killed not only Germans. Between D-Day, June 6 and August 25, he says, about 20,000 French civilians in the five nothern departments (counties) of Normandy where fighting was heaviest, paid for liberation with their lives.
He also talks about what some of the soldiers did as they moved into Normandy. The power that liberating soldiers possessed over the civilians whom they freed, he says, opened up enticing avenues of privilege and temptation for these young, male soldiers: Even the best of them consumed scarce food and drink and were capable of drunkeness and vandalism, with some going further and looting homes and sexually assaulting women. The author quotes not only from European sources, but also from the countless memoirs, diaries, letters and oral testimonies of British and American soldiers themselves.
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Thanks for the post, Marjifay; however, I don't understand why there is disagreement between the two - the Europeans and Americans. I know about D-Day and its aftermath but I have an idea the Europeans created as much havoc among civilians as did the Americans. They were all fighting for the same cause, to free Europe of Hitler's menace.
Isn't it farfetched to bring Iraq into this scenario? Who are the good guys, the bad guys in the Iraq war? Are the Americans the bad guys here? Are we the Hitler menace?
Harold, yes, I agree; more jobs have been eliminated because of "automation." Fortunately, the computer era has taken up some of the slack in unemployment don't you think?
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The Washington Post has a great article regarding Frances Perkins. Here it is:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/06/AR2009050602612.html?sub=AR
Of course, the author of the book is Washington Post staff writer, it helps!!
Here are a few paragraphs from the article; however, read the whole of it for better content:
"When Franklin D. Roosevelt assumed the presidency in the midst of the Depression, he was flanked by a prestigious brain trust of economic and political advisers: Adolf Berle, Raymond Moley and Rexford Guy Tugwell, all Columbia University professors. These were the Larry Summerses and Tim Geithners of their day, spouting elevated theories and cultivating lavish media coverage.
The president was casting about for a plan to slash unemployment, boost incomes and give relief to the needy. Yet the early stimulus effort that ultimately won most support was not engineered by these high-powered advisers. It came together through the efforts of a former social worker, a plain woman with luminous dark eyes, an individual of unique emotional intelligence whom Roosevelt appointed as his secretary of labor: Frances Perkins.
Perkins had known Roosevelt for two decades, and the two had worked together for four years, when she was state industrial commissioner while Roosevelt served as governor of New York. The only woman in the Cabinet, Perkins had spent almost 30 years studying the American workplace, talking to laborers and employers in factories, retail stores, harbors, mines and mills across the country. She was exactly the kind of person a neophyte president needed by his side.
I wonder, does Barack Obama have a Frances Perkins somewhere in his administration?"
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Ella, there was disagreement between Europe and the U.S. re sending troops into Iraq. Bush had one heck of a time getting other countries to volunteer troops.
As to bringing Iraq into the scenario, I've heard estimates that some 78,000 or more Iraqis were killed by U.Sl. and "coalition" airstrikes. And look at all the displaced people. Some estimate that about 2 million refugees, including their skilled professional doctors, lawyers, educators, etc., have escapted to other countries like Syria and Jordan.
Not to mention their other problems with unemployment, poverty, lack of electicity, water, etc.
IMO, the "bad guys' were us who started the war in Iraq.
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We may not be "bad guys", ELLA, but there is no question that we were the
invaders. War is always a situation of extreme hardship for the country where it is fought. In the Allied invasion of WWII, the horror of the Nazi rule made defeat of the Nazis imperative. The loss of life from genocide far outweighed the losses incurred by invasion. The French were glad to see the liberating armies. We can't say the same about the Iraqi's. I suspect there will always be disagreements about how necessary our intervention there was.
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Thanks, MARJIFAY AND BABI for your posts. I agree we were the invaders; however, to put us in the same category of Germany's Hitler is too much for me to swallow. We did not intend to conquer, did we?
True, we made errors of judgment (Bush's war) in the aftermath of the horror of the bombing of the Towers. And true we did unimaginable damage to civilians, property, etc. How to prevent future wars of this kind is a problem; I think, we must control such "interventions" such as these. Right now, North Korea is a threat and I remember that was in Bush's "axis of evil" speech.
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I read an interesting book on North Korea: MELTDOWN; THE INSIDE STORY OF THE NORTH KOREAN NUCLEAR CRISIS by CNN reporter Mike Chinoy.
Another book about the North Korean Kim dynasty that was recommended to me is UNDER THE LOVING CARE OF THE FATHERLY
LEADER by Bradley K. Martin.
I hear that their "Dear Leader," Kim Jong Il, has designated his youngest son, Kim Jong Un to be their next leader. They've already written a song in the son's honor, "Commander Kim," which they are teaching the people to sing.
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Oh, definitely not in the same category as Hitler's Nazis, ELLA. On the contrary!
"...which they are teaching the people to sing."
I think that is how a dynasty becomes the'fatherly leader', MARJIFAY. This sort of propaganda and mind control. The Chinese are especially good at this.
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My Library doesn't have that book, Marjifay! But I think if we could find a good book about the country of N. Korea we could get a discussion going. Let's look. There is an interesting article in my paper this morning with the headline: China won't let N. Korea collapse.
Although China deplores N. Korea's nuclear testing, still it will not allow the regime to be overthrown. Communist countries stick together. However, the article by Gwynne Dyer states that the country of N. Korea is weak in every kind of weapon, planes, ships, etc.
Is this what you read in the book?
The current Secretary of Labor is a woman also, a fact I did not know until I read this morning that she is touring a few factories in Michigan and Ohio. It is interesting that in periods of economic distress the country finds itself in the hands of a female Secretary of Labor; not at all what one would expect. I must look up her background.
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Here she is: http://uspolitics.about.com/od/biographies/ig/Obama-Cabinet/Secretary-of-Labor.htm
Fairly young, I think, what do you think?
Wikipedia has this to say about cabinet officers, which I thought interesting:
"Though the Cabinet is still an important organ of bureaucratic management, in recent years, the Cabinet has generally declined in relevance as a policy making body. Starting with President Franklin Roosevelt, the trend has been for Presidents to act through the Executive Office of the President or the National Security Council (which generally does include some Cabinet secretaries) rather than through the Cabinet. This has created a situation in which non-Cabinet officials such as the White House Chief of Staff (who requires no Senate confirmation), the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and the National Security Advisor are now as powerful as or more powerful than some Cabinet officials.
Indicative of the Cabinet's relative unimportance in contemporary American government, President Obama did not meet with his assembled Cabinet until a full three months into his administration."
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Yes, Ella, I would think a discussion on North Korea would be interesting. I'll look for some books on the subject. North Korea seems to spend all its money on its military and weapons. Sad how many of their people died (2-3 million) of starvation.
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Hope I'm not getting too political, but I read today that a large statue of Ronald Reagan has been placed in the U.S. Capitol Building today. (It seems that each state gets two statues there - not sure who the other one is from California.) There was a photo of Nancy Reagan with tears in her eyes as they installed it. Sad to say very few Democrats attended the ceremony. I'm a Democrat, but I did admire a lot about Reagan. Seems to me that since he was a former President, more Democrats should have attended.
I've been to the Reagan Library and Museam in Simi Valley, CA several times. A lovely building with a gorgeous view of the surrounding mountains. I always encourage friends to be sure to visit there if they come to Southern California.
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Marifay,
I think that any presidential library is worth perusing even if that president isn't of one's party. I have only been through Jimmy Carter's library. which is in Atlanta. I took a large group there several years ago.
As to the Reagan library, just seeing him put to rest there gave some of us a real good view of the grounds. I lived in California before the library was finished so didn't get to see it.
Ella,
That is a surprise that N. Korea has a female Secretary of Labor. I saw a short news story about the new head of state, Kim Jong Un. Although he is young and the third son of Kim Jong Il, he is considered the smartest of the males in the family.
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Indicative of the Cabinet's relative unimportance in contemporary American government, President Obama did not meet with his assembled Cabinet until a full three months into his administration."
That's interesting, ELLA. Since so many of them are new to their position, I wonder if he was just letting them get settled in, just as he was. I know I wouldn't have a great deal to contribute until I was more familiar with my job.
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ANN, my post was confusing. Sorry!
The Secretary of Labor that I was referring to in my Post of June 3rd was America's Secretary not N. Korea's. I thought it was interesting we now have a female Secretary of Labor in a time of recession as we had Frances Perkins as Secretary in the Depression. Of course, it just happened and was not intentional.
BABI, possibly, although I have heard this comment before from other sources. Presidents can appoint friends or former staff members to important offices in the White House without prior Congressional approval; whereas Cabinet offices, I think, must be approved by Congress.
Rahm Emanuel and Tim Geithner were from Obama's Chicago headquarters I believe and seem to be in almost daily contact with the president. I'm skating on thin ice here (or slipping on the the sidewalk!) as I am not sure of what I am typing!!!
MARJIFAY, thanks for the post. I hope you are successful in finding a good book on N. Korea.
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Yes, Annie, I agree that any presidential library is worth visiting even those not of one's own political party. You made me think. Here I was bemoaning that few Democrats attended the installation of Reagan's statue in the Capitol Building, yet I have never visited Nixon's library which is practically next door to my home, just because I disliked him so much. Guess it's about time I visited it.
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My copy of the Frances Perkins book arrived yesterday and I have begun reading it.
Regarding the presidential libraries I think all are worthy for visitation. The one that is most available to me is the LBJ Library at the University of Texas in Austin. I have been their many times often to attend meeting on a variety of civic issues, one 6 years go on a seniors book discussion issue.
Also the Bush I Library at Texas A&M is in easy visitation range just 8o miles east of Austin. I have not been their but I am going to ask our Chandlers Activities Director to schedule a day trip there soon. I understand that the Bush II Library will be at Southern Methodist University at Dallas.
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I am just begining a new, non fiction book, called: "War Against the Weak". Edwin Black is the author. It is fascinating! The story of eugenics. Thousands of people were sterilized. Many of them had no idea what their surgery was for.
I first learned about eugenics, by watching a history program on PBS. It seemed unbelievable to me, that my government had taken away the ability to have children, from thousands of our citizens. Recently, I watched a program on CSpan's Book Club, with Mr. Black. It is his contention that the seeds of the Holocaust were planted in America, with eugenics. Which began in the late 1800s.
It reads almost like a novel. I have trouble putting it down.
Sheila
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ELLA, I may not be functioning too well yet this early in the morning, but I'm
missing the relationship between my comment and your reply in Post #353. Did I misunderstand you, or did you misunderstand me?
I have heard of proposals, from time to time, that people with terrible genetic
disorders should accept sterilizsation to prevent passing on the strain. It should be
voluntary, of course, but it seems a logical choice and one I definitely would consider
if I were in such a position. Involuntary sterilization of unwitting victims is an
entirely different thing. I think people who decide to take this sort of responsibility
on themselves must have a 'god' complex.
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Thanks, SHEILA, for the recommendation; perhaps we need to educate ourselves about the subject. I'll look up the book at the Library.
BABI, you function very well! At times, it is just too difficult for me to explain what is meant from a keyboard. Perhaps my age? Certainly not the age of reason!!
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That I understand perfectly, ELLA. :-\ ;)
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: Ella Gibbons (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com)
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Sheila,
I remember reading about those awful procedures in a newspaper article. The human race certainly is a strange mix, isn't it!!
- ADOANNIE
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WHAT ARE YOU READING?
I am halfway through a book by Stacy A. Cordery titled ALICE ROOSEVELT LONGWORTH: from White House Princess to Washington Power Broker. I knew of her, of course, by not these details! She and her father, Teddy, were so close; she helped him politically all his life and missed him dreadfully when he died. Her marriage to the senator, Nicholas Longworth, was not a happy one for either of them but they settled into a comfortable relationship. She and Eleanor Roosevelt never cared much for each other - that I knew.
My sister, from MA, is visiting me and she is reading all the books on the library shelf that have to do with Altzheimer's disease. Once she gets interested in a subject she becomes an expert! She was telling me the story of the one she is reading now - a doctor writes of his diagnosis of cancer 8 years ago; he refuses chemo and with alternative methods believes he is cured.
That is the short version, the very short version, of her book.
Give me an idea for a good book to read!!! I need one. I was at Barnes and Noble the other day and came away with nothing. Absolutely nothing! A first!!!
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That book on Alice Roosevelt Longworth sounds interesting, Ella. I'll add it to my (too long) TBR list!
You asked for suggestions for books to read. Here are a couple I want to read:
A SAFE HAVEN; HARRY S. TRUMAN AND THE FOUNDING OF ISRAEL by
Allis and Ronald Radash. Heard about it on CSpan's BookTV program.
As the president told his closest advisors, these attempts to resolve the issue of a Jewish homeland had left him in a condition of "political battle fatigue." A suspenseful, moment to moment recreation of this crossroads in U.S.-Israeli relations and Middle East politics.
FAMILY SECRETS; THE CASE THAT CRIPPLED THE CHICAGO MOB by Jeff Coen. Heard the author on CSpan BookTV. He said he couldn't believe his ears when he heard the stories one of the mob members told at the trial, but found they were true. The first time a "made" mob member squealed on other members. A riveting, shocking book on self destructive Costra Nostra members (known as "The Outfit" in Chicago) engaged in a death dance of suspician and betrayal.
SARAH'S KEY by Tatiana de Rosnay A book recommended highly by a couple of my friends. A remarkable historical novel which brings to light a disturbing and deliberately hidden aspect of French behavior towards Jews during WW II. Per PW, Starred Review, this book is so riveting, it's hard to put down.
Unlike you, I check books out at the library.
Marj
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Oh, MARJIFAY! Did I give the impression I buy all my books? Hahahaaa I'm a weekly regular at our library and my sister trotted home an armload of books to look through and read one or two.
I do, at times, buy one; it's a treat! But my shelves are full and in order to put another one in I must take one or two out and give to someone.
Truman and Israel! That book sounds great, I must get it. In fact, all of those you mentioned sound good - from Israel, to France to the Chicago Mob.
Thank you so much for the recommendations.
Pray tell, what are you reading?
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What am I reading, Ella? Well, no nonfiction right now. Am working thru Eliot's MIDDLEMARCH. Then want to read the BROTHERS KARAMAZOV for a July group discussion. Read it many years ago and it's one of my favorites by Dostoevsky. In between I've sneaked in Dashiell Hammett's RED HARVEST.
After that I want to read BLUE LATITUDES; BOLDLY GOING WHERE CAPTAIN COOK HAS GONE BEFORE by Tony Horwitz. Then I want to read the Truman book I mentioned about the founding of Israel. Truman was one of my favorite presidents. I also want to read about the drive he and Bess took from Missouri to New York all by themselves in 1953 in their brand new Chrysler New Yorker to celebrate their anniversary: HARRY TRUMAN'S EXCELLENT ADVENTURE by Matthew Algeo. Also heard about that one on BookTV--sounded very good.
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On a recommendation from here, I'm reading (on my Kindle2) The Rogue's Gallery by Michael Gross, about the founding and early history of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC. It's interesting, and I'm enjoying the book.
However, I've found what must be the worst piece of prose writing I've come across in quite some time. And I wanted to share a good laugh with you. The pronoun "his" in this single sentence refers to Henry Osborne Havemeyer.
"His tastes evolved, moving from volume to quality and from objects to paintings after he married Louisine, who'd led a privileged childhood in Philadelphia and Europe, before her first $100 purchase from the unknown and financially strapped Degas, who, legend has it, was about to quit painting when she came along."
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Okay, the guy's editor needs to discuss the use of periods with the man. I do think, tho', that I've run across worse writing. I wish I could recall some of them, but unfortunately I did not preserve, much less memorize, them. ::)
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Harold and I just opened a PROPOSED DISCUSSION on the book FRANCES PERKINS: The Woman Behind the New Deal by Kirstin Downey.
Here is the site:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=587.msg26098#msg26098
Come post a message if you are interested in joining us in August! We will need a quorum of at least 4-5 people; hopefully more!
See you there.
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Just heard Michael Gardner on Book TV. He's written a book "Harry Truman and Civil Rights: Moral Courage and Political Risks." My father was such a big fan of Turman's and I liked McCullough's book on HST. I think his courage on civil rights has been overlooked. I'm going to check w/ my library and see if they have it.
I'm reading "Condolezza Rice" by Susan Burmiller, the White House correspondent for the NYT's from 2001 to 2006. It's interesting also. Rice lived in Birmingham, Ala during the 50's and 60's and her families' response to MLK is quite different from the news clips we see of what was happening at the time. I think they are probably what my response would have been. I don't think i would have had the courage to endanger my job or house or family in the way many did in the South during the 50's and 60's. How did those parents send their children to Little Rock H.S. every day? I don't think i would have had the guts to do that. .....................CR's comments in the book seem rather superficial to those events. SB spent 8 hrs interviewing her and had access to her family and friends. It is not an "authorized" bio, but seems objective. I'll be curious to see how her comments might change, perhaps become more in depth, when it gets to the more recent years. ..........jean
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I admire those of you interested in political figures or American history, I'm not, particularly, for some reason, maybe I'll grow into it. Since I can't take my trip this year I'm traveling vicariously, now with Roland Murello in Italian Summer, I just read about this book in a magazine, it's brand new.
I really like it, so far, see our Library discussion for a fuller description, if you like golf and you wish you could go to the Lake Como region of Italy, it's your kind of book. It's even made ME appreciate golf, which is a miracle. :)
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Interesting comments, JEAN, about Condoleeza Rice. I wonder what she is doing today, back to teaching? And do tell us what she stated about MLK?
Golf, GINNY, it would take a powerful book for me to get interested in the game, although we were just talking in a restaurant about Tiger Wood and his phenomenal career. Jack Nicklaus is very famous in these parts, but he takes a back seat to Tiger.
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Harry Truman was very unpopular in many sectors during his presidency, but
in hindsight he emerged as a much better president than he was given credit for.
Actually, Lincoln and F.D.R. also got a lot of verbal abuse in their time. I
can only suppose that any leader who takes strong action is going to polarize
opinions.
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If you have not read "Truman" by McCullough, it is a very good book. Our SN bookies met Mr McCullough in DC in 2002 at the book festival. Very nice and enthusiastic gentlemen. He wants us all to encourage our children and grandchildren to in their studies of history. I believe that Stephen Ambrose was the same about our children. He used to camp with his whole family on trails to historic places.
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During 2002 there was a discussion to the McCullough Trueman biography on the old Seniornet/book site. This archived discussion is now available at http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Truman.html .
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Condoleezza Rice is back at Stanford University and Its Hoover Institute. See http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Condoleezza_Rice . The site indicates that we will see books by her in the future.
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The author of the Condonlezza Rice book is SusanBumiller, not "Elizabeth," sorry for the mistake. The book was on my nightstand upstairs and not in front of me. I'm still finding it very interesting.
Ella - her family and many of their friends - middle class, professional people of Birmingham - tho't MLK was just going to create problems for them by messing w/ the status quo. And they were right in the short run. Even those who were not invovled in the demonstrations were sometimes harrassed by the the white establishment, just to intimidate the black population................jean
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Hmmm, interesting, JEAN.
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At B&N today I jotted down some titles to look up in my library and then sat down with a coffee and a sweet with a book I bought on sale. The title is TRUTH AND DUTY: The press, the President aand the Privilege of Power by Mary Mapes who has been a producer and reporter for CBS News, primarily for CBS Evening News with Dan Rather and 60 Minutes.
She won a Peabody Award for reporting on the Abu Ghraib prison tortures in 2005. It looks interesting. There are many books coming out on President Bush and I understand he is writing his memoirs, plus Dick Cheney is writing his.
What are you all reading?
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Don't you find that memoirs often tend to be quite selective and self-serving?
Whenever I do read one, I tend to be somewhat cautious in believing what is said. A great deal depends, of course, on who is writing the memoir. Some people I already trust...but the politicians in that line-up are very rare.
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Don't you find that memoirs often tend to be quite selective and self-serving?
Whenever I do read one, I tend to be somewhat cautious in believing what is said. A great deal depends, of course, on who is writing the memoir. Some people I already trust...but the politicians in that line-up are very rare.
[/b]
Couldn't have said it better myself, Babi! But they are fun to read. Its just not "quite from the horse's mouth"?? Yeah, that's it!
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I agree, ANN, they are fun to read and, at times, illuminating; only one must keep an open mind. I read a couple of chapters in the book and now understand why it was on sale! Hahahahaaa
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Been there, ELLA. :P :D
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Ahhh, yes, the truth will out ooooorrrrrrrr NOT!
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You are a much more sensible B&N shopper than I am. I just broke the bank there buying books I could have gotten cheaper online. At least, I esisted their cheesecake, and settled for a cup of coffee.
My son disapprves of the fact that I talked to people at neighboring tables. But at the bookstore back East, thats what everyone does. I love to find out what others are reading.
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Me,too, JoanK.
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JoanK, I had a friend that talked to strangers everywhere she went.
Very outgoing, and a real eye-opener and lesson to my own rather
introverted self. It was good for me.
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On reading an old book, an out-of-print, book on FDR by Frances Perkins I am getting a wealth of information about him that only a person who knew him and Eleanor would be able to write. She wrote it in 1946 a year after his death and I am sure she is, perhaps, overcome with the tragedy.
She is not very objective, but in some things that she knows personally, particularly labor laws, etc, she is no doubt correct. And her impressions of the important people in politics at that time is fascinating.
She tells of his reading habits, stating he was not a good student. He read a great deal of political history, political memoirs, books of travel and learned to read himself to sleep on the "modern American soothing sirup, detective stories." He did not read poetry or philosophy.
We have never discussed a book on FDR to my knowledge on Seniornet or SeniorLearn. Perhaps we should?
We will be discussing some of his policies and problems in our August discussion of Frances Perkins, his Secretary of Labor - The Woman Behind the New Deal by Kirstin Downey.
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What the title of your book, Ella??? Did you find it in the library??
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Hello Ann. The title of the book is THE ROOSEVELT I KNEW by Frances Perkins and it is not available in our library. It was published in 1946 and is out of print. I ordered from an online bookstore; right not I can't remember the name of the site but I can find it. The cost of the book starts at $5.
Perkins write well, I think, and the book is so interesting but I have read only l/4th of it, enough to know I will finish it when I have time.
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Just for fun I wrote an email to President Obama quoting one paragraph in Perkins' book where she writes of FDR's habit of throwing his head back, which she thinks he was unaware of. I have noticed the same habit in Obama and I think he is unaware of it also. It is not a habit of arrogance or looking down the nose at people (which Perkins said some thought was true of FDR) but later people looked at that habit as one of looking forward with courage and hope.
Has anyone noticed that gesture in President Obama? Other gestures?
What was interesting about my email was that as soon as I clicked on "Send" I got an instant reply (a thank you form) and both the email and reply do NOT SHOW UP either on my computer's "send or receive" message boxes.
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Ann: The book site I ordered from is Abebooks:
http://www.abebooks.com/
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Ella,
I found it cheaper on Alibris but didn't order it. How important is it that I have it??
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Oh, Ann, it isn't important at all to have the book by Frances Perkins, I mentioned it because it is good and also timely, as the article in TIME mentioned that President Obama would be wise to follow a few of the ideas Roosevelt used in the depression years.
It's just a good book if you are interested in Roosevelt. I have over the years read a great deal about the man, this just adds to it.
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To bore you with another anecdote from the Perkins book, which reminds me of Obama of whom it has been stated that he "runs things himself."
FDR did not expect to be elected Governor of New York, did not especially want to run for Governor as he was still recuperating after his long illness with polio, but he was persuaded by the Democratic party, who was running Al Smith, the former popular governor, for President. Smith lost both the bid for president and lost the governorship and then attempted to tell FDR how to be governor of New York.
After numerous advisement of whom to appoint, what decisions to make, etc., FDR said: "You know, I didn't feel able to make this campaign for governor, but I made it. I didn't feel that I was sufficiently recovered to undertake the duties of Governor of New York, but here I am. After Al said that to me I thought about myself and I realized that I've got to be Governor of the State of New York and I have got to be it MYSELF. If I weren't, if I didn't do it myself, something would be wrong in here (tapping his chest). I've got to do it myself.......I am awfully sorry if it hurts anybody, particularly Al."
It created a tension between the two of them, but it made FDR an uprising political star.
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Has anyone read a biography of Al Smith? There is one in my library written in 2001 and I think when I get time I'll attempt to get it. The title is
Empire statesman: the rise and redemption of Al Smith by Robert A. Slayton
Summary: Born to Irish immigrants on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, Al Smith was the earliest champion of immigrant Americans. In 1928, Smith became the first Catholic to run for the presidency but his candidacy was fiercely opposed by the KKK, and his campaign was wiped out by a tidal wave of anti-Catholic hatred. After years of hardship, Smith reconciled his soured relationships with political bigwigs and once again became a generous, heroic figure.
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GREAT NEWS! GREAT NEWS! BREAKING NEWS!
The author, Kirstin Downey, of the life of Frances Perkins, THE WOMAN BEHIND THE NEW DEAL, is going to participate in the discussion of the book on August lst.
What fun to talk to an author, one who has put 10 years into researching this book (one just has to look at the Bibliography and Notes to be amazed at the effort).
Come join us as we take a look backward into the Great Depression and the live of Frances Perskins, first woman to be appointed a cabinet member. And now that I type that, I am wondering if she is the only female cabinet member??
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I looked to see if the Frances Perkins book was available for my Kindle. It is, but costs almost $20.00. I wonder what happened to "all books are $9.99"? I checked a couple of other titles that interested me (McCullough's Truman, etc.) and they were about $15.00. Hmmmmmmm.
I've been working on Rogue's Gallery - the story about the history of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I'm interested in the story, and keep working at it. But it's one of the worst written books I think I've ever read. If it had been a mystery or some subject I was less interested in, I'd have pitched it out long ago. And may do this yet. :-\
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MARY, do you access to a library? I'm sure they will have a copy of the Perkins book or can get it for you. There has to be a way!
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I'm sure our library will have it - haven't looked. I will, though. I won't be here for the first week in July. I read so slowly nowadays >:( that I couldn't get it read in the one week that's usually allotted for a new book anyway. I will check in on the discussion, but mostly I just think it's an interesting-sounding book.
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Mary, the discussion doesn't start until August, so you have plenty of time to figure out when you can get the book. It reads really well, and Perkins was an amazing woman, worth learning about.
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Maryz,
Who wrote your book about the Met?? I don't want to find myself trying to read it. :D There must be a better one. Have you tried any of Thomas Hoving's books??? He wrote a lot about the Met and since he was the director there for a few years, they might read better. He was our author to meet in NYC in 1998 and just full of colorful stories about the Cloisters and the Met.
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Booktv is programming 3 days of non-fiction books, starting today............jean
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AdoAnnie, it was written by Michael Gross.
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Thanks, Mary Z. I shall put that on my short list of not reads. ;D
Thanks, Jean, for the reminder about BookTV.
I just came in from the hometown parade. My grans were in it skating and bike riding, all decorated up.
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Anyone watching BookTV? See anything good?
H.W.Brands, a professor from the University of Texas, author of TRAITOR TO HIS CLASS, talked about FDR. He would be a fun prof to have, very enthusiastic, off the wall fellow, flailing his arms while he talked. He had some interesting ideas, best of all his reason for writing another biography of FDR.
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I would like to mention a book written up in yesterday's book section.
I have not read but intend to do so. The library is taking no holds on it
at the present time. The name: In the Sanctuary of Outcasts--
a memoir, and it has a LOT of local appeal as it is about Carville, LA, just about 18 miles downriver from Baton Rouge (my location). The
only leper colony in the United States was in Carville- a federal institution for the incarceration of victims of leprosy -now called Hansen's Disease. All but a VERY FEW patients have been moved out
except for those that refused to go. Author is Neil White, who once ran
New Orleans Magazine and Louisiana Life magazines.
Joy
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My goodness, JOYOUS, how interesting! I think I, like most people, think of leprosy as occurring only in the Middle Ages, which of course isn't true at all.
Apparently, leprosy today is treatable, many countries have eliminated it. The treatment is available free from the World Health Organization. Many countries have eliminated it, but sadly, people don't always come forward for treatment because of the social stigma.
http://www.who.int/lep/en/ (http://www.who.int/lep/en/)
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JOY, years and years ago I read a book written by a lady who was taken to the Leper Colony in LA after her doctor diagnosed her with the disease. A teenager, she came from a middle class family who were outraged as the doctor immediately called the health authorities and she was practically dragged from her home. She was at the Leper Center and not disfigured by the time treatment and the cure came, at which time the patients were given the choice of either leaving or staying. She left, married, had a child, attempted to work but wherever she went her employer or fellow employees would somehow find out her past and she was told not to come back. It was a sad story. I never forgot the book, but have been unable to find it again.
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Interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carville%2C_Louisiana
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Additional input re: the Hansen's Disease (Leprosy) National Hospital @ Carville received patients from all over the world. It was located in Carville, LA because of the remote location.
Just a little postscript regarding the hospital. It is still a Federal institution but I am not sure
for what purpose it is used. It is a BEAUTIFUL place, well-kept, and nuns administered to the
afflicted in those by-gone days.
Joy
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Joy, how interesting that sounds, let us know how it is as you read it? Ella, I hope you can find that book, I'd like to read it, myself, sounds wonderful.
One of the most interesting stories, to me, is that of Typhoid Mary, who insisted that she did NOT have typhoid fever and caused the deaths of so many people. She was a cook, was actually sent to jail, changed her name and kept on cooking in schools and institutions. She must have been a carrier. Scary stuff.
Mary, I'm enjoying Rogues Gallery but unlike you, I cheated. Since we met with Thomas Hoving I started with his chapter, wonderfully written, I thought (Hoving probably dictated most of it, he's very colorful as we know) and exciting. Since he DID talk directly to the author, he's all over the book. When I finish with his bit, I'll start at the beginning hoping for good writing, but knowing where Hoving appears adventure follows. :) Hoving's own King of the Confessors remains one of the best books I have read and he's got an update on it in a down loadable version. I also liked his own Museum Confessional, Making the Mummies Dance.
I am enjoying reading about his background as well.
I'm also reading Service Included, which is not worth even a library loan, about an eavesdropping waiter at Per Se restaurant. Bland and blah.
Still picking up travel writers, just bought In the Merde by Stephen Clark about, apparently irreverently, travel in France.
I wish I could find more Rosemary Mahoney in print! Her Down the Nile is spectacular.
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In the Merde by Stephen Clark. Love the title. ::)
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There must be books about this Leprosy Center at Carville if we could find them. I wish I could find that old book I read, it was very interesting. As I remember it was dramatic when the doctors came to the center and announced a cure and those who had endured years of disfigurement shuddered in disbelief. All were given a choice, stay or go. Of course, those who were very disfigured chose to stay. I wonder if any remain there.
Somewhere overseas - was it in Rome? - there was an island hospital and it was pointed out to us that it used to be a leprosy center. I'll look it up.
Here's a very good quote, I think, about biographies.
"Of course I think biography aspires to be an art, just as the novel does. It is a piece of imaginative storytelling, as well as an historical investigation. It celebrates the wonderful diversity of human nature, and its aim is enlightenment. But biography is also a vocation, a calling. The dead call to us out of the past, like owls calling out of the dark. They ask to be heard, remembered, understood." - Richard Holmes
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I do not have the book at the present time--public library is taking "no holds" on it right now, and I think the B&N price is in the range of $25-$30 (I looked it up but can't remember), which is a little steep for me.
In the same newspaper write-up last Sunday another book was mentioned --"Squint: My Journey with Leprosy" by Jose Ramirez, Jr. It also is in the $25-$30 range. To quote the paper:" It is a painfully honest chronicle of life as a patient there, a call for dignity for Hansen's sufferers". I haven't looked that one at our public library, but will do so today.
Joy
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I have just looked up the "Squint; My Journey with Leprosy", by Jose Ramirez, Jr., and I think
I would even opt to buy that one first, if I have to buy. Look it up @ B&N and read about it.
Joy
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Ella,
The book, "Squint: My Journey with Leprosy" is in our local library, should you desire to read it.
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Ella: <I wonder if any remain there>----I am fairly certain that no patients remain there. The very few that had no family or anywhere to go now are one floor of one of our hospitals, just
as a residence. I have a friend who volunteers there, and they take them out to lunch once a month at a local restaurant, and other places of interest. My guess is that the Federal Gov't.
probably pays for them to stay there instead of at the hospital since there are so few.
Joy
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Click http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprosy for the Wikipedia article on the disease. Though I knew that modern medicine had brought the disease under control and that the extreme isolation of victims was no longer a factor, I was surprised that 95 % of the human population is naturally immune to the disease. The Wikipedia article noted that modern drugs quickly bring the disease under control, but I saw no use of the word cure in the article. It is fortunate that under conditions of modern hygiene, it is very rare.
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HI Harold. Undoubtedly, you are right. I was in error; I should have said in a previous post that the doctors announced treatment. Regrettably, I mistake cure, treatment, cause, all those crucial aspects of medicine and diseases. It gets worse as I grow older, I'm afraid.
Thanks, Ann. I'll look up that book in our library.
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Father Damian(sp?) was the priest that went to treat the lepers on Molokai , and I THINK he eventually contracted the disease and died on Molokai. I am not sure of this, but ????
Go to: http://visitmolokai.com/kala.html
Or---just google molokai leper colony
Joy
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Yes, Father Damien(sp?) ::) did die from leprosy while serving the lepers of Molokai. I think that one can tour that island but not sure.
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Some of you current Seniorlearers might remember our 2005 discussion of the W. Somerset Maugham fiction book, "The Moon And A Sixpence." http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/fiction/Moon_SixPence.htm . This is one of only two fiction books that I have participated in as a DL. It is a fictional account of the life of an English artist escaping to Tahiti. In our discussion,true to my nonfiction inclination, I emphasized the comparison of Maugham's fictional character to the historical artist Paul Gauguin. Clearly Maugham intended this comparison in his creation of his fictional character. It made an interesting discussion with both fictional and nonfiction vectors.
Their was a close parallel between the narrative of the fictional artist and the historical one. Both were 19th century European Artists; both were struggling painters in Europe who left wives and children to escape to Tahiti to paint in a primitive south-seas environment. One notable difference was that the fictional artist died of leprosy; Paul Gauguin died of syphilis. In general most of the participants in scoring the character of the two based on their over-all social and human value easily rated the historical Gauguin far worthier than the fictional counterpart. The leprosy death at least to me was a surprise ending.
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That's interesting, Harold. Thank goodness the disease has been eradicated and aren't we fortunate that a few others have been also. Particularly polio.
We are getting ready to discuss the Frances Perkins book - THE WOMAN BEHIND THE NEW DEAL by Kirstin Downey - and, of course, President Roosevelt, (whom you all know as the president with polio in a wheelchair) will be a prominent person in our discussion. We'll try not to let him take over entirely.
Frances was an impressive lady! She deserves all our attention!
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Having seen a good documentary on HBO about the Booklyn Dodgers I wanted to read more so I got the book THE LAST GOOD SEASON by Michael Shapiro. It is the kind of book you can read a couple of chapters and then put down for a few days.
Also while on a weekend trip I bought a book titled ANNIE'S GHOSTS by Steve Luxenberg, which tells the story of his search for his mother's roots through imperial Russia, the Holocaust, the Philippines, and to the depression era of Detroit. What a story!
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IS ANYONE AROUND - ARE YOU ALL AT THE BEACH - OUT TO LUNCH???
HAVEN'T HEARD A WORD FROM ANYONE FOR A LONG TIME.
COME TELL US ALL WHAT YOU ARE READING AND WHY YOU LIKE IT!!!
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Just started with the book discussion for People of the Book and finishing up an Agatha Christie. I am really getting itchy to read one of the non fictions in my TBR piles, but haven't settled on which one yet. Bio of Winston Churchill or George Washington, The Dreyfus Affair, several Roman, Middle Eastern and American histories, Welsh and English histories. So many book, so little time. AHHHHHHHH!
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I'm reading the Sebald, as mentioned in the Library, The Rings of Saturn, ruminations upon a walk thru Sussex England by an author who, had he not died prematurely, was to be considered for the Nobel Prize (according to the committee chair). It's quite good and as they used to say, "deep," so you have to read a little and stop and reflect.
I was reading but put down Service Included, which is the story of a real life waitress at Per Se, it's bad, tedious and tiresome. Don't recommend it, unless you want to eat there and know what not to say or do.
I have found a new (2003) Rosemary Mahoney! This one's about pilgrimages: The Singular Pilgrim: Travels on Sacred Ground
Here's the Amazon blurb: Amazon.com Review
Sometimes purposeful, sometimes footloose, the act of undertaking a pilgrimage is "both a preparation for death and a hedge against it." So writes Rosemary Mahoney, who knows well whereof she speaks. A reluctant churchgoer, and less interested in religion per se than in the faith that underlies it, she travels in this absorbing narrative to some of the world’s great pilgrimage sites: Ireland’s Croagh Patrick, Lourdes, Santiago de Compostela, Canterbury, the banks of the Ganges. "As I got into the rhythm of it," she writes, "I found that the more I walked, the more I wanted to walk." Walk she does, over hundreds of miles, observing and recording along the way, talking with ascetics and skeptics, joining the multitude whose physical beings wander in order that their minds might turn toward the divine. And to what end is all this hard slogging? "Dunno, really," one of Mahoney’s fellow travelers shrugs. "When it’s done, you feel very good about it." Fans of travel narratives and religious memoirs alike will find much pleasure, and much on which to reflect, in Mahoney’s pages. -
I like her writing, loved her Down the Nile, and look forward to this one as well, she's a young woman.
I've gotten very interested in Stanley of Stanley and Livingstone, because of the current just ended National Geographic series of programs tracing his footsteps thru Africa. There appear to be no end of books and even movies on the subject, so I am going to consult the Read More About It part of the Nat. Geo website and see what they recommend, what an adventure!
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Winston Churchill is bound to be interesting, FRYBABE, and I've always
found the Welsh fascinating as well. If you decide on one of those, let
me know what you think of it.
Y'all have me interested in Rosemary Mahoney; now if I could only find
one of her books. :(
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Where is National Georgraphic on TV - is it on one of those extra stations? I have HBO which I watch often.
Last night, (continuing on with baseball, and I am not even a fan!) I watched a Ted Williams documentary on HBO. Great hitter with the Boston Red Sox, lousy husband and father, but very good looking, cute smile. He was frozen when he died - cryogenics (sp?)
And I finished reading the THE LAST GOOD SEASON by Michael Shapiro about Brooklyn and the Dodgers.
Brooklyn, so many stories and books about Brooklyn over the years, but it still lives as a neighborhood of a mix of people from different places. Russians live in Brighton Beach, Haitians and others from the islands along Flatbush Avenue, and then there are the bankers in Brooklyn Heights, blacks in Fort Greene, Orthodox Jews and others mixed in. I walked over the Brooklyn Bridge once years ago and that is as near as I have gotten to it.
I think I read DOWN THE NILE, now, darn it, I'll have to look at it again. One forgets!
Yes, let us know Frybabe if you find a good book about Winston.
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ELLA, you got me to thinking. 'Lousy husband and father' sorts tend to be
self-centered, I think. Is cryogenics popular with the egoistic, I wonder? It
seems like a logical common denominator. I suppose there are those who
want to do it purely out of scientific interest...but it's an expensive hobby with
very few opportunities to indulge. ;)
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BABI, I love the word "egoistic."
Probably, there are many reasons why a person would want to be frozen after death.
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"but it's an expensive hobby with very few opportunities to indulge." Tee, hee, Babi. Cryogenics figures in some sci-fi stories, but I can't believe that current techniques would give any chance at all of revival.
A number of years ago a local figure ran for president on the Maryland ballot with a platform of reviving the frozen dead. He didn't get many votes.
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I'm smiling at both of you!
In the Ted Williams documentary they showed the company where he is frozen and this is it:
http://www.alcor.org/ His children hated the publicity. Now their father is known as the frozen man instead of the great baseball player he was.
A site commenting on the subject - science fiction?
http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/human-cryogenics/2007/11/01/#comment-71013
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Yes, science fiction. Nanobots are a good device for a writer, but nowhere near any practical use.
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Nanobots are a good device for a writer, but nowhere near any practical use
.
Give it time, PAT. We'll get there. ;)
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And for something completely different :) Wednesday night on TV there appeared the original movie Stanley and Livingstone (or is it Livingston?) That thing, shot in 1939, with a young Spencer Tracy, was unreal, it was in black and white and had all the music of the old Movietone announcements they used to have in WWII.
It showed notations in pen in a diary with an overvoice and sweeping black and white scenery of Africa. At first the diary said XXX has misrepresented the difficulties of this journey, we're having a fine time. I switched channels, flipped back, and the next thing you saw was what appeared to be a million Masai or something flooding down the plain at them, unreal, they were running and setting fire to the brush and the next thing you saw was them trekking on and Stanley saying we will not come out alive.
I first want to read his diary, that's been reprinted. Then I'm going to see if I can see the movie thru, when were "Talkies" invented?
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I would like to mention a book written up in yesterday's book section.
I have not read but intend to do so. The library is taking no holds on it
at the present time. The name: In the Sanctuary of Outcasts--
a memoir, and it has a LOT of local appeal as it is about Carville, LA, just about 18 miles downriver from Baton Rouge (my location). The
only leper colony in the United States was in Carville- a federal institution for the incarceration of victims of leprosy -now called Hansen's Disease. All but a VERY FEW patients have been moved out
except for those that refused to go. Author is Neil White, who once ran
New Orleans Magazine and Louisiana Life magazines.
Joy
JOYOUS!!!
I just finished reading this book - it's so fascinating, I couldn't put it down. He writes so well, but then he has had a newspaper, editorial background.
I was surprised to see a number of books and DVDs listed in the Bibliography. Why I was surprised I don't know but it has been and still is a stigma, a frightening subject. The old Carville Hospital has been turned into a National Historic Site and I think the National Hansen's Disease Museum is located there.
The author touches on some of the history of the place and its patients, but leaves out more to be investigated by the reader.
And I didn't realize that there about 3000 cases being treated in the U.S. and about 250 new cases every year; of course, none of the people with the disease are talking about it. About 95% of the population of the country is immune to the bacteria that causes it.
The author was incarcerated there for year in a part of the institution which was being turned into a prison; which idea was later abandoned. There are still about 30+ patients still living there.
I highly recommend the book.
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GINNY, I JUST READ YOUR POST!
I saw the Spencer Tracy movie in which he portrayed Stanley. How much was true? I like old movies and I like Tracy. I think I saw in the credits that Sir Cedric Hardwicke portrayed Dr. Livingston, can that be right? Or who was it? I'll do some snooping.
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Yes, it was Sir Cedric, and, yes, it seemed true as far as movies go. Here are two sites:
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0031973/
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/stanley.htm
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Thank you for those links, Ella, that Imdb is something else. I read the entire thing (Walter Brennan too and neither he nor Spencer Tracy ever went to Africa, they used doubles for those scenes, pretty sophisticated camera work because there were some close ups). That's interesting in itself.
I did not watch it all but after reading in your first link about Stanley and Leopoldville and the Congo, I think I am not going to read Stanley's diary. He was considered a hero but look at what he did AFTER he found Livingston (spelled correctly finally). Not sure what to think, I think I'll pass on it tho. Now if Livingston had written a diary! Maybe I better check that out, apparently he was the true heroic figure.
Strangely enough I was reading about the Congo last night in the Sebold. :) But it's a wide ranging book.
Did you watch the whole movie and do you recommend it? I can't get over the parallel between that and the National Geographic Channel's Expedition to Africa, very much similar, actually, as they tried to retrace Stanley's steps.
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Ella: Many thanks for your report on "In the Sanctuary of Outcasts". I'm glad you could put your hands on the book, as in our public library there is a "no holds accepted" due to the popularity. Were you able to obtain it from the library?????
JOY
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
HI, JOY! Yes, I got it from the Library after having it reserved for a week or two. Our library bought 8 copies of it; perhaps that helped. It is a new book (2009) and I think more people will spread the news of it; obviously they have where you live as you are having trouble getting it.
I told my daughter about it and she is going to download it on her kindle for a 3-week vacation she is taking to Croatia and Greece. We both like the same books so I told her to download a couple more or she will run out; I finished the book in a two-day session. It reads well and keeps your interest.
GINNY, I liked the movie.
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Just read Ginny's mention of Henry Morton Stanley. Reminds me I have wanted to read KING LEOPOLD'S GHOST by Adam Hochschild.
Has anyone read it?
Am curious why people would find a book about a leper colony so interesting.
Marj
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I was sorry to read on the news this morning that Frank McCourt has died.
Sadly, it was apparently not an easy death. He was in hospice with cancer. A
hard childhood and a hard passing. I'm so glad he achieved a measure of success and satisfaction in his career.
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MARJ, I will quote John Grisham's book review about the "leper" book, IN THE SANCTUARY OF OUTCASTS by Neil White. I think it says it better than I could ever do.
"A remarkable story of a young man's loss of everything he deemed important, his imprisonment in a place that would terrify anyone, and his ultimate discovery that redemption can be taught by society's most dreaded outcasts."
Yes, I was sorry to learn of Frank McCourt's death also. We discussed his book TEACHER MAN on our old site and it is archived.
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Click the following link for a Frank McCourt obituary. He had an interesting career. I had not realized that his book , “Angela’s Ashes” were in the 10 million copy range.
http://news.aol.com/article/frank-mccourt-dies/578119?sem=1&ncid=AOLNWS00170000000004&otim=1248273551&spid=29279720
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_84746691_2?ie=UTF8&docId=1000398561&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=right-1&pf_rd_r=081YQA2HXNT6FWRH29KF&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=482617491&pf_rd_i=1000398531
The above link leads to amazon.com’s 10 best nonfiction books so far this year. Perhaps the title that interested me the most was "Nine Lives" by Dan Baum. It seems a sort of biography of the city of New Orleans from the 1960’s through Katrina and its aftermath. During much of this period I would always spend at least a week each year in that city usually in December or January for the Fair Grounds racing and the jazz. I have not been there since 2000.
I am sure there are titles on this list that will interest you too.
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Here's a bit of a heads-up on one of the 10 books on the Amazon list:
All summer I've been trying to tackle Goldsworthy's How Rome Fell.
It's much less readable than his Caesar, which I've read more than once,
as I'm in a Latin class with Ginny.
Unfortunately, the latest Godsworthy reads somewhat like cut/and/paste and
also frequently refers to historical events out of context, i.e., everyone knows
what/who that is, so why give background ... and if the reader doesn't, too bad.
So thumbs down on his latest.
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Thanks, HAROLD. I think "The Big Burn" and "The Unforgiving Minute" look
good. I have always like stories about how people handle themselves in
times of crisis. In fiction, Nevil Shute did that very well.
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Sorry to hear about the Goldsworthy book, Mippy. It sounds like he got a little lazy. I have several of his books, but not How Rome Fell nor Caesar.
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Thank you Mippi and Babi for your comment on the Amazon.com best nonfiction list. I thought there would be something on the list that would strike the interest of our readers. The "How Rome Fell" title also caught my interest. May years ago I read Gibbon's "Decline and Fall' and most of the Durant's Story of Civilization Titles. Today most of my history reading concerns Texas Spanish Colonial and Texas Indian History. This is in connection with my work at the Institute of Texan Culture and the San Antonio Missions National Historical Park.
I may take a look at the Goldsworthy "Ceaser"title noted above by Mippy as more readable than the "How Rome Fell" reviewed in the Amazon link.
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I wondered about that list. It sounded a bit too weighted toward "pop" to be truly the best. And I questioned having adds for other books along the side: you had to look closely to tell which were in the list.
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Thank you for that list, Harold. I am interested in this one on the page but I am not sure if it's on the list: The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind
The inspiring story of William Kamkwamba, a self-taught inventor who created a better life for his family through old bicycle parts and PVC pipe, is a true tale of hope and perseverance (available September 29).
I'd like to read the one about the leper colony too.
I've just gotten My Life At Grey Gardens: 13 Months and Beyond by Lois Wright who actually lived IN the house with them, it's in the form of a diary, quite odd actually. I'll know more when I'm finished.
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Joan and all: I attach absolutely zero (No!) authenticity of the word "Best" as used in the Amazon.com nonfiction list I mentioned in message #445 . It is no more than some advertising Executives descriptive word for a list of titles that a customer wanted to promote. Yet it lists an interesting thought provoking assortment of books from witch most of us as individuals can find at least one or a few that interest us.
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http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Boy-Who-Harnessed-the-Wind-CD/William-Kamkwamba/e/9780061841989/?itm=1 Click the above for pre publication information on “The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind by William Kamkwamba mentioned by Ginny above. This pre-publication listing gives price for delivery after its publication release Sept 29, 2009
I have nothing against wind energy except their visual pollution. I remember the long auto drive between San Antonio, TX and Red River New Mexico. In the late 1990’s when I first made that drive there were no Wind farms. A few years later about 2002 they began to appear. By 2007 the visual view of several scenic sites had changed to a vast field of maybe 100 wind towers spread to the horizon. It may be cheap clean electric energy, but it is not free. One of these is in Texas near Sweet Water RX, the other is in eastern New Mexico several hundred miles north of Clovis.
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All those nonfiction books on Amazon's list sound just great, HAROLD! Thanks for posting them.
I am reading the book AMERICAN EMPRESS: Marjorie Merriweather Post, by Nancy Rubin, whose father, C.W. Post, pioneered the breakfast cereal, Grape Nuts, and the hot drink, Postum, in Battle Creek, Michigan. His early experiments are fascinating. Having a series of illness early in life he entered a sanitarium run by Dr. W.H.Kellogg (recognize that name, hahaha) whose patients ate a granola, avoided tea and coffee and drank a substitute, which was called Caramel Coffee.
Later came Post Toasties, of course, plus the whole General Foods Corporation.
Post's rise to great wealth brought him a host of troubles; at the beginning of the 20th century the threat of labor unions was beginning to trouble employers and the Postum company employed 400 people so C.W. built 579 houses on 80 acres of land adjacent to his facory. Down payments were minimal and each buyer was responsible for his own mortgage and monthly payments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._W._Post
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That book (American Empress) sounds very interesting, Ella.
I just received a book I ordered after reading a little about the Spanish American War. The book is THE ROUGH RIDERS by Theodore Roosevelt. It was based on a diary he kept, and was originally published in 1899 in installments in Scribner's Magazine. The book description says it's a spirited chronicle of the First U.S. Volunteer Cavalry's bloody battles in Cuba against deeply entrenched Spanish forces.
I've had Martin Gilbert's history of the second world war for some time, and have decided to read a part of it each day (it's about 900 pages) to learn more about the war. Does anyone have any books they'd recommend about that war?
Marj
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Hi Marj! A fascinating look into Teddy Roosevelt's character is the book RIVER OF DOUBT. Wonderful adventure and an excellent read.
A book about WWII? Oh, golly, there are so many. Any book about FDR or Churchill or Eisenhower will fill that request. And the movie, Private Ryan, about D-Day is very good. I asked my daughter if the Army would really do that and she said yes, they would. Send 8 soldiers to find one missing one in France somewhere.
Was that a book?
Oh, there are so many. Linger awhile in the US history section of any library and you are sure to find just the one you are searching for.
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MARJ, I just typed in WWII in my Library search box and this book, written in 2008, with just 385 pages (doable) sounds very good:
The real history of World War II
a new look at the past
Authors: Alan Axelrod
My Library bought 31 copies of it which is a lot for a nonfiction book so I am assuming they expected it to be popular. I have no idea if it is good or not.
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http://www.amazon.com/Real-History-World-War-II/dp/1402740905/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248561813&sr=1-1
Sounds very good to me, Marj!
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Saving Private Ryan is certainly the best current movie about D-Day. But the one that almost everyone agrees is the best is The Longest Day. Almost every male actor in the world was involved - Americans played Americans, Brits played British, French played French, Germans played Germans, etc. Check out the cast list in this link to IMDb.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056197/
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Thanks so much, Ella, for finding the book THE REAL HISTORY OF WORLD WAR II. It looks very interesting, especially re probing the motivations of those involved. I read the book's description and it almost looks as if the book should be longer than 400 pages. My library has only two copies, but both are out, so someone is reading it, as I will be when it becomes available.
There are a couple I want to read:
HUMAN SMOKE; THE BEGINNING OF WWII, THE END OF
CIVILIZATION by Nicholson Baker (576 pp, 2009) I had read part of this but had to return to library before finished, so bought my own copy (used). Study of the tragic path that led to WW2. The author disputes the myth that WW2 was a "just" or necessary war.
TEARS IN THE DARKNESS; THE STORY OF THE BATAAN DEATH MARCH AND ITS AFTERMATH by Michael Norman (463 pp, 2009) I just heard the author on CSpan's BookTV, and it sounded very good.
Marj
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Oh, I just noticed you recommended two books, Ella. Thanks for the other one about Teddy Roosevelt, RIVER OF DOUBT. These books should keep me busy for a while.
I"ve seen both movies Mary Z, and I agree, they are very good.
Marj
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Should we have a "winter retreat" for our presidents? Marjorie Post thought so and tried to give her mansion - Mar-A-Lago - in Palm Beach, Florida to the government but when they found out what the yearly upkeep was they refused. Imagine, our government being frugal, but isn't it good to know? Donald Trump bought the estate and turned into a private club.
She also attempted to give the Smithsonian her Washington, D.C. mansion called Hillwood, which contains the finest collection of Russian Art anywhere except in Russia. But they, too, renged on the promise to accept when they found the yearly costs. The mansion is now maintained by the Post Foundation.
Her "camp" consisting of 68 buildings and acres+ was left to the State of New York who later sold most of it and retained some of the acreage in a state forest.
What a life!! She had 3 daughters (Dina Merrill is one) and 4 husbands; the most interesting part of her life was when she was married to FDR's ambassador to Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution and before WWII. His name was Joseph Davies and there was much jealousy in the State Department at his close association with FDR.
The president gave orders to be friendly to that bear as we wanted it to be on our side in the coming war; consequently Davies ignored the cruelty of Stalin. During this period she and Davies collected priceless objects of Russian art and their association with the powers-to-be in Russia before and during the war would make a very good book. Perhaps there is one!
Her mansions: (just three of them)
http://www.hillwoodmuseum.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar-A-Lago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Topridge
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SO, WHAT ARE YOU READING?
Our discussion of FRANCES PERKINS, THE WOMAN BEHIND THE NEW DEAL begins this Saturday.
iT'S OUR AUGUST SELECTION, SO..........
I HOPE ALL OF YOU WILL BE THERE WITH YOUR COMMENTS!
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I am not a fan of war movies, but i loved The Longest Day and recommended to my students. I tho't it was adapted from a book. oh yes! It says Cornelius Ryan wrote the book and the screenplay.
A book I've been remembering since Walter Cronkite's death is The Murrow Boys about the group of journalists that Ed Murrow put together in Europe during WWII. You'll find a lot of familiar names in his group. The authors are Stanley Cloud and Lynne Olson. It goes beyond the war years. I found it very interesting........................jean
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Thanks for those links, ELLA. I would love to visit Hillwood Estate;I love both
museums and gardens.
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Jean, I am not a fan of either war movies or books about wars. Now the biographies of the people during those war years interests me, as does Edward R. Murrow. Do you remember his People to People programs during the early years of television. We usually watched them. We were smoking during those years and thought nothing of Murrow sitting in front of a TV with his cigarette smoke curling upwards.
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Tomorrow we will begin our discussion of "The Woman Behind the New Deal," by Kirstin
Downey. I know that many of you who are active here will be involved in this discussion. I want all of you to know that you are welcome to follow this discussion and should you have comments you care to make your posts will be welcome. This discussion promises to be an exceptionally good one because in addition to over a dozen registered participants we willl have the author, Kirstin Downey and Barbara Burt, executive director of the Frances Perkins Center as participants.
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I just watched a fascinating interview on BookTV with Douglas Brinkley talking about his new book WILDERNESS WARRIOR; THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND THE CRUSADE FOR AMERICA. Didn't think I'd be interested in the book, but after hearing Brinkley talk so passionately about how Roosevelt saved so much wilderness for us, I will read it. (I don't think the intereview will be repeated this weekend, but will probably be back another weekend, it was so good.
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And I am just starting to read FORDLANDIA by Greg Grandin: The Rise and Fall of Henry Ford's Forgotten Jungle City. Fascinating! What a strange man Ford was.
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Ella, I saw a program once about his Amazon endeavors. As I recall he tried to make a rubber plantation, complete with worker town/company store and such, so that he could make tires for his vehicles. Let me know how you like the book.
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I will, FRYBABE. The author gets bogged down too much at times, I feel, but I'm finally just getting into his Amazonian projects. He's into "building character" in people, which is crazy because his assembly lines made robots out of his thousands of workers.
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You'all should come over to the discussion of Frances Perkins, the woman behind the New Deal. Our author, Kirstin Downey, is reading and posting. Fun!
JEAN, our history teacher, where are you?
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FRYBABE, I finished the FORDLANDIA book today. I don't recommend you going out of your way for it; it's not written well but I slogged my way to the end. Actually, the last chapter was the best one.
The experiment in the Amazon forest was a total disaster costing Henry Ford millions. Eventually his grandson, who took over all the businesses after Henry and his son, Edsel, died, sold almost all the"cottage" industries and the Amazon station, such as it was, was sold to the Brazilian government for a mere pittance.
Ford's labors were scorned by the author; in fact, the author had nothing good to say about Henry Ford whatsoever!! He was a very ignorant man in many ways, sending bookkeepers, carpenters, teachers, nurses to the Amazon and not one expert on soil, weather, agriculture, diseases, insects, etc.
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Thanks Ella, I guess I will pass on reading it. The program I saw was pretty good.
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SO, WHAT IS EVERYONE READING HERE?
ARE YOU READING?
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE NOT READING? Hahahaaaa We live to read, or read to live!
On the average, I am not too fond of the books that my f2f book club chooses, but they hit the jackpot now and then for me. The current one is the reason I stay with the club as I would not have known of this one, which is very good, so well written, and sad. Perhaps because it is nonfiction.
BROTHER, I'M DYING by Edwidge Danticat, A MEMOIR.
Her books have won numerous awards and I can understand the reasons.
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I was reading "Julie, Julia", ELLA, but I took it back to the library. I found myself
disliking the author and not at all enjoying the book. I do plan to see the movie,
since I understand Meryl Streep as Julia does a wonderful job. Even there, tho',
there have been complaints about 'too much' of Julie.
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My daughter saw the movie and said the parts with Julia were much better than the parts with Julie.
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I NEED A GOOD NONFICTION BOOK TO READ! Any suggestions?
An old (2 Years, I think) interview of Rober Novak by Brian Lamb was on a TV channel and I watched a portion of it. Has anyone attempted to read his book, THE PRINCE OF DARNESS? I looked it up online and its 600+ pages seemed daunting but I'll take a look at it at the Library.
He's had an interesting life, and said he hoped that those interested in both politics and Washington, D.C. would read his book.
A quote from TIMES ONLINE - "Novak was a difficult, pugnacious figure; friends, colleagues and professional sparring partners described him as nicer in person than his television screen persona suggested while also acknowledging his toughness. "
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Ella, today C-Span II, repeated a 2007 interview with Brian Lamb interviewing Bob Novak. I found it quite interesting. I enjoyed him on CNN's Capitol Gang, several years ago. My politics are almost totally opposite to Novak's. But that show included Mark Shields and Bill Press. I always enjoyed that show.
Sheila
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Sheila, I got the book from the Library yesterday, the Novak book. Wow, it's a big one. I haven't had a chance to read much of it, just skimmed a bit, not very seriously. Wonder if he had any real friends? He seems so critical of everything and everyonel, but that is a journalist's job. Make noise, people will read. I'm being cynical, I know, but there is so much of it on TV anymore. I think eventually it will be the death of these commentators.
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Ella - have you read any of Cokie Roberts books - We Are Our Mothers Daughters, or Founding Mothers, or Ladies of Liberty? I love her writing and i can just hear her talking as i read the narrative........................jean
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We had a book discussion of "Founding Mothers" a while ago. I learned a lot.
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Ella - i happened to be going thru the list of books i've read, so i got reminded of some non-fiction books that i liked that you might like.
If you haven't read them yet:
Pearl Buck by Peter Conn
President Nixon by Richard Reeves
Freedom's Daughters by Lynn Olsen about women in the civil rts movement
Grandmama of Europe: the crowned descendants of Queen Victoria by Theo Aronson about Queen Victoria and how her grandchildren ruled all over Europe - i liked it very much
Guns, Germs and STeel by Jared Diamond about why some groups of people became great civilizations and others don't - i liked it very much, but not his second book Collapse, why some groups collapse.
First Ladies, there are at least 2 books by that name, one by an author named Carl Anthony and one by Betty Caroli - i liked them both
First Mothersby Bonnie Angelo, also a good read.
Walking With the Wind by John Lewis
Some of them may have had subtitles, but i don't remember what they were............jean
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Our Frances Perkins discussion is now finishing. I know that many of you like myself have diverted our Books interest from this general nonfiction discussion to the Frances Perkins Board. This proved an interesting discussion with the author , Kirstin Downey an active participant, but now we can return here to keep each other current on our new nonfiction reading interest. Hopefully within a few months we can have another nonfiction discussion going.
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Two books I'm reading, small ones, thin ones. Both excellent. The first is titled THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT by Robert Goolrick, a memoir of his life. You have to not mind the sex in it, he's liberal in that, but his life in a middle-class family is one of great sadness. His father was a professor; his mother witty and elegant.
Perhaps I have mentioned the second one, also a slim book, by Jonathan Franzen, a Memoir.
Two male authors and both start their memoirs with descriptions of their parents dying, etc. Neither author thought they had good parents; gosh, are they critical!
Both sad books, so to balance it all out, I read a mystery by David Ellis, who just published a new one. I do like his mysteries having read all of them.
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I actually found a non-fiction paperback that will fit into my purse: The Highland Clearances by John Prebble. Unfortunately I didn't get to start it yet as we actually had work to do last night. Prebble also wrote, among other things,Culloden and The Buffalo Soldiers. Culloden was made into a made of TV movie and he got an award for best historical novel of the American West for The Buffalo Soldiers. Didn't that become a movie too? I think so. Will have to look it up.
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Here is information from the B&N atalog on five new titles released by their publisher in Sept 2009. The Ted Kennedy title is certainly timely, and also I suspect I for on would find the Hemmings family history title interesting. Also King Tut seems to remain popular.
Further comment from any of you on these or other new titles particularly if you see them in libraries or book stores is always welcome.
True Compass : A Memoir by Edward M. Kennedy
Sept 2009
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/True-Compass/Edward-M-Kennedy/e/9780446539258/?itm=1
New York 400 : A Visual History of America's Greatest City with Images from The Museum of the City of New York by The Museum of the City of New York
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/New-York-400/The-Museum-of-the-City-of-New-York/e/9780762436491/?itm=2
Sept 2009
The Hemingses of Monticello: An American Family by Annette Gordon-Reed
Publishers Release date Sept 2009
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Hemingses-of-Monticello/Annette-Gordon-Reed/e/9780393337761/?itm=3&usri=1
The Murder of King Tut: The Plot to Kill the Child King - A Nonfiction Thriller by by James Patterson, Martin Dugard
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Murder-of-King-Tut/James-Patterson/e/9780316034043/?itm=7&usri=1
Inside the Revolution : How the Followers of Jihad, Jefferson and Jesus Are Battling to Dominate the Middle East and Transform the World by Joel C. Rosenberg
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Inside-the-Revolution/Joel-C-Rosenberg/e/9781414326269/?itm=6
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Ginny had mentioned on the "Library" site a few months ago that she was reading "Down the Nile." It seemed to me that someone else mentioned a similar book fo a woman traveling in the Middle East, was it on here? I've looked thru some of the postings, but can't find that discussion. Friends of ours are going to Egypt in Nov and they have already read Down the Nile, i tho't i'd suggest the other book, but ??? ???..........(throwing up my hands :) ).................jean
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I am presently reading "The Woman Who Defied Kings, The Life and Times
of Dona Gracia Nasi" by Andree Aelian Brooks. I first heard of this woman when we were reading and discussin Geraldine Brooks' "The People of the Book". A most remarkable woman.
The research done to produce this book is amazing. The opening paragraph
of "Acknowledgements" says: "A book that delves into the remote corners of history and uncovers information contained in fading documents and obscure works written in thirteen different languages--Dutch, Old French, Latin, Italian, Spanish, Croatian, Old English, Ladino, Portuguese, German, Hebrew, Aramaic
and Turkish written in Arabic script--requires a worldwide "army" of translators and handwriting specialists."
The book is full of information. It is somewhat of a drawback that every
statement of new facts or logical deductions is footnoted back to its source.
Chapter Three is the leader so far with 121 reference notes! In spite of all
this, the book is engrossing.
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That sounds great. We were all fascinated to find out about her in the Brooks discussion. She led an incredible life.
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My main complaint with "The Woman Who Defied Kings" is that there is no
first-person action or speech. The closest it comes is quotes from letters. It
tends to make somewhat dry reading, but the author is avoiding any semblance of 'imagining' what might have been said or done.
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We are nearing a vote for upcoming book discussions. It would be great to include some non-Fiction titles in the vote. Some people think that our site is all about Fiction. You know that's not true, but from the titles that have been nominated, it sure looks that way.
There's still some time for nominating a title that you would like to see included in the vote. We're waiting to hear from you in the Suggestion Box (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.80) right now!
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JoanP, I read many nonfiction books but there are few I would recommend for discussion and when I do find a good one that has cultural or historical references or "meat" as they say I propose it for discussion.
I recently collected three nonfiction books to give to a neighbor that I thought she would enjoy, but none of them were worthy of a month-long discussion. One was a biography of Alice Roosevelt Longworth, another by Jonathan Franzen called THE DISCOMFORT ZONE and another enjoyable one but I forget both title and author.
Be sure that when I find a good one for discussion I will suggest it.
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Who here has read Rudyard Kipl;ing's "American Notes?" This is Kipling’s travel log account of his trip through the U.S in 1889. It seems in his work as an editor on an Indian English Newspaper he had embarrassed certain high officials or the Imperial Indian Government administration. His publisher thought it best he leave India for a while. The result was a long extended trip through the U.S. He arrived in San Francisco via Japan by steamship. Some of the scenes cover 1889 San Francisco with a Visit to a Chinese Opium Den where he witnessed a murder, then a train trip up the coast to the mouth of the Columbia where he toured a Tuna cannery built on pilings over the river. Then came a wild train ride east to early Yellowstone National Park, and on to the east for a unique Englishman’s accout of late 19th century America, Americans, and their culture.
I have a hard cover edition of the book now out of print, but the book should be available at most libraries and an inexpensive paperback seems available from Barnes & Noble. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/American-Notes/Rudyard-Kipling/e/9781406819021/?itm=3&usri=1
I have mentioned this title on our :Suggestions" Board as a possible candidate for discussion.Is anybody here interested?
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Certainly I have read one of Kipling's books and do you know I can't remember?
Harold, I just reserved that book at my library and will take a good look at it, sounds as though it would make a good discussion and be very interesting.
While reserving books I also reserved this one written in 1990 by Sam Tannehaus. I did not know of it until I read Christopher Buckley's book LOSING MUM AND PUP. Here is the summary of the Whittaker Chambers book:
"Synopsis
Whittaker Chambers is the first biography of this complex and enigmatic figure. Drawing on dozens of interviews and on materials from forty archives in the United States and abroad--including still-classified KGB dossiers--Tanenhaus traces the remarkable journey that led Chambers from a sleepy Long Island village to center stage in America's greatest political trial and then, in his last years, to a unique role as the godfather of post-war conservatism. This biography is rich in startling new information about Chambers's days as New York's "hottest literary Bolshevik"; his years as a Communist agent and then defector, hunted by the KGB; his conversion to Quakerism; his secret sexual turmoil; his turbulent decade at Time magazine, where he rose from the obscurity of the book-review page to transform the magazine into an oracle of apocalyptic anti-Communism. But all this was a prelude to the memorable events that began in August 1948, when Chambers testified against Alger Hiss in the spy case that changed America. Whittaker Chambers goes far beyond all previous accounts of the Hiss case, re-creating its improbably twists and turns, and disentangling the motives that propelled a vivid cast of characters in unpredictable directions.
A rare conjunction of exacting scholarship and narrative art, Whittaker Chambers is a vivid tapestry of 20th century history.- Barnes and Noble
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Keep us posted, Ella, on the Tanenhaus biography of Whittaker Chambers. I think I would like to read that one. I made a note of it myself when I followed up on the posts a few months ago, regarding LOSING MUM AND PUP. It was there I read that Tanenhaus was working on a bio of William F. Buckley, Jr. I'm waiting for that one to come out. I was in the middle of Buckley's WIND FALL, described on the jacket as 'the latest of his wonderfully readable sea sagas...also the best.' And it is good. Add to that, that he has been called the 'Moses to modern conservatism', his life could be made very interesting.
Another book I'm working on, thanks to your hostelling on the Hudson, is a curious biography of Henry Hudson. You have the beautiful river named after him. We in Canada have the huge Hudson Bay, where HH was set adrift in a small boat with his son and seven others of the ship's crew. The painting of HH and his son in the boat, with a huge iceberg in the background, by the artist John Maler Collier has haunted me all my life, after seeing it in my grade school reader.
The title and subtitle give one a good idea of the turbulent exlorer's life and fate:
GOD'S MERCIES: Rivalry, Betrayal and the Dream of Discovery. By Douglas Hunter. It's painstaking reconstruction using the available documentation found in ship's logs, diaries, and courtroom evidence, etc.
The Chambers book might be a good follow-up to the Frances Perkins discussion. Chambers' book, WITNESS, made a great impression on her, and thousands, perhaps a million others. The synopsis makes it sound like a turbulent life
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Our annual college book sales here in Toronto are coming up, running through October. I might even get lucky and find a copy of Tanenhaus's book. I'm almost certain to find Perkins' The Roosevelt I Knew. These discussions always leave me with a shelf of books. Waiting to be read:
Jean Edward Smith's, FDR. Smith is working on a biography of Eisenhower. He also wrote GEORGE BUSH'S WAR, the 1990 gulf war. I'm in the middle of that. I like his style. Now retired, he was professor of political science, here at Univ of Toronto.
I've also acquired Doris Goodwin's NO ORDINARY TIME. Wasn't her TEAM OF RIVALS a good discussion. That one left me with a dozen books on Lincoln's life and times. They're stacked up on the floor all around me. I need a chair to get the to the ones on top.
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I read Chambers book, 'Witness' many, many years ago. As best I recall,
it was my depressing introduction to the underworld of politics. IMO, an
important book, but I don't think I would care to read it again.
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BABI, I read WITNESS years ago also, but this is a new book, written recently, with updated material, some from the archives of Russia. Should put a historical slant on that whole episode of our history. I'll let you know.
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I'll be interested in what you find, ELLA.
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OH, JONATHAN, I smiled. "I need a chair to get the to the ones on top." (books) We need more smiles, chuckles.
Yes, I will let you know when I get the Chambers book by Tannehaus. For some reason, any book about Eisenhower would seem dull, he seemed dull to me, but, of course, he wasn't. He was a leader of men, obviously. I last was in touch with a remnant of his life when we did an Elderhostel for a week in Gettysburg some years ago (all three lectures every day on the battle, I was fatigued through it all). While there we drove to Eisenhower's home/farm which had opened to the public. A modest home, lovely though, very up to date barn, etc. The guide through the home and grounds told us things about the man I wish I didn't know!!!
I wonder if his library is there?? It wasn't at the time.
Speaking of Buckley, I did NOT like his son, Christopher, when he was on BookTV. Affected I thought. And I did not like his book on his parents either. He was critical of them which I found odd. He should not have written it, IMHO.
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The book on Henry Hudson sounds very good, but at the moment I cannot, just will not allow myself any more books to read.
You know, I try fiction now and then and nothing suits! Why I do not know.
I am halfway through MEET YOU IN HELL: Andrew Carnegie, Henry Clay Frick by Les Standiford. That's a phrase that Frick used to reply to Carnegie's conciliatory message on his deathbed in his 80's.
An easy book to read and fascinating, of course. I've read of Carnegie's exploits in industry before but his relationship with Frick is one for the book!
Also FABERGE'S EGGS: The Extraordinary Story of the Masterpieces that Outlived an Empire. a very good book. I think I mentioned it before, but I repeat because I think it would make a good discussion; that period of Russian life is extraordinary.
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I must look for that one: MEET YOU IN HELL. With that nasty reply to Carnegie's generous offer, Frick assured himself of a place in hell. And Carnegie's remorse, no doubt, took him to heaven. Getting Frick to his deathbed was probably the last dirty trick Carnegie played on him. Does the book tell about other offers from Carnegie that didn't pan out for Frick? I wonder how eternal justice will finally deal with these arguments between brother barons.
'...any book about Eisenhower would seem dull, he seemed dull to me, but, of course, he wasn't.'
After Eisenhower it did get very exciting, didn't it? Isn't it time for another dull president? I would be LOL if it weren't so serious.
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I suspect it would be difficult for any child raised by the idiosyncratic
Buckleys to be entirely natural and normal, ELLA. I read an excerpt from Christopher Buckley's book on his parents in a Sunday supplement, and thought it good. He seemed to me to be simply honest and frank about his parents. He admired them, but they would certainly be hard to live with.
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Has anyone read BOBBY AND JACKIE; A LOVE STORY,a new book by C. David Heymann? I'm reading it in between another book, so have only read about half of it. About Robert and Jacqueline Kennedy. Apparently they had a "romance" after JFK's death. Seems that it was general knowledge among their friends who kept it quiet to outsiders at the time.
But so far the book is mostly about the Kennedy family. What a promiscuous bunch! I'm almost sorry I started it. I always had a lot of respect for JFK, but now whenever I see a picture of him, all I can think about is how whenever he arrived in any city, he'd ask his aides,
"Where's the broads?" He'd send them ahead to scout for prospective women, and I guess they had no problem finding them.
Also, am feeling a little sorry for Jackie. The Kennedy family didn't like her -- thought she was a snob.
Heymann seems to have documented what he says in his book. He was nominated for a Pulitzer for his biographies, so he didn't seem to be a "hack" writer.
Marj
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HI MARJ! No, I haven't read that, I'll look it up and I agree that it is disquieting (I like that word, I think this is the first time I have ever used it, haha!) to hear or read about a person you have admired and to find out they are not what they seemed to be.
Just think about all those people who were backing Edwards for president! He was in the running for awhile I think!
My sister, who likes to cry at other people's misfortunes (although she would have a fit if I said this to her) has read two of Elizabeth Edwards' books and feels very sorry for her.
One's sorrow can be turned into profit, or one's improprieties. Those of us who have been loyal and faithful wives and mothers will have to find other sources of revenue, not to mention excitement and illegalities.
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One's sorrow can be turned into profit, or one's improprieties. Those of us who have been loyal and faithful wives and mothers will have to find other sources of revenue, not to mention excitement and illegalities.
Good one, ELLA. ::)
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JOHN MUIR! I never heard of him until I watched the AMERICAN EXPERIENCE last night and the first installment of Ken Burns' National Forests documentary. I can get teary-eyed over the beauty of those scenes and the struggles to maintain the forests! I want to go to Yosemite Valley! Will I be able to walk very far through it? Have I waited too long to see the beauty?
There are at least a dozen book on John Muir at my library. I reserved one, I hope it is written well.
Has anyone read any about him?
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I didn't know that everybody didn't know about John Muir. There's a wonderful grove of Sequoias or redwoods just north of San Francisco called Muir Woods (http://www.nps.gov/muwo/index.htm). It's one of the most peaceful places in the world!
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John Muir at Yosemite
'When the first heavy storms stopped work on the high mountains, I made haste down to my Yosemite den, not to 'hole up' and sleep the white months away; I was out every day, and often all night, sleeping but little, studying the so-called wonders and common things ever on show, wading, climbing, sauntering among the blessed storms and calms, rejoicing in almost everything alike that I could see or hear: the glorious brightness of frosty mornings; the sunbeams pouring over the white domes and crags into the groves and waterfalls, kindling marvellous iris fires in the hoarfrost and spray; the great forests and mountains in their deep noon sleep; the good-night alpenglow; the stars; the solemn gazing moon, drawing the huge domes and headlands on by one glowing white out of the shadows hushed and breathless like an audience in awful enthusiasm, while the meadows at their feet sparkle with frost-stars like the sky; the sublime darkness of storm-nights, when all the lights are out; the clouds in whose depths the frail snow-flowers grow; the behaviour and many voices of the different kinds of storms, trees, birds, waterfalls, and snow avalanches in the ever-changing weather.'
I'm sorry I missed the first part of Ken Burns' new documentary on America's wilderness. Oh, well, it should be easy to acquire. Just lately I acquired a John Muir omnibus, The Eight Wilderness-Discovery Books, a thousand pages of poetic, wilderness prose. Like the above. I'm planning to while away a Canadian winter accompanying Muir to all his wild spots. The dust jacket has a fine photo of Muir and Theodore Roosevelt 'viewing Yosemite from Glacier Point in May, 1903.'
'An influential man from Washington wants to make a trip into the Sierras with me...I might be able to do some good in freely talking around the campfire.'
Good results. 'Their campfire talks during this visit led to the President designating over a million acres of irreplacable scenic value to the National Parks and forests.'
The editor of the omnibus suggests Rediscovering America: John Muir in his Times and Ours, by Frederick Turner, (Sierra Club Books, 1985) as the definitive biography.
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I've heard of John Muir. I'm almost sure I've read a book by him, but the book I dimly remember was about the East, and all the ones I saw on Amazon were about the West.
There are many good American nature writers, starting with Thoreau.
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John Muir's family came to Wisconsin from Scotland, and he spent about 10 years in Wisconsin, growing up, working very hard on a farm. He must have been a brilliant man, to do all the things he did around the country.
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Thanks, MaryZ, for mentioning the Muir Woods near San Francisco. We've driven the coastal route several times thru SF, but didn't know about the Muir Woods. Will be sure to see it next time.
Marj
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JONATHAN, my library does not have the book you suggested - the one by Frederick Turner, but I have another reserved; a biography of Muir's life. I saw another episode of Ken Burn's documentary last night; the one where Teddy Roosevelt, accompanied by an entourage of guards, friends, etc., headed west. Teddy was supposed to attend a dinner one evening (I forget what city), but instead played hookey and met John Muir, alone, in the woods and the two spent a few days and nights getting acquainted around a camp fire and hikes.
John Muir, taking advantage of this friendship, was to make suggestions to Teddy throughout his presidency that gave America more acres for forests and monuments, but losing the Hetchy Hetchy River when Woodrow Wilson became president.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Muir
I've been west several times for various reasons, but have never seen a sequoa. I must go to Yosemite Valley and thank John Muir while there. (I know, I know)
I'm reading still the Faberge Egg book and just finished the pages where the Czar and Czarina and family were murdered and their homes looted by the Bolsheviks. Now the hunt goes on for the eggs themselves; some of them end up in the strangest places. The eggs themselves are not gems, but the history of the period and the jeweler and the royal family make them valuable.
As the author, Tony Faber, says "There's only really one price that's significant with a work of art, and that's what the patron pays: the rest is just completely ephemeral."
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I've just started Fabrege's Egg. So far, very interesting.
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I finished the book, JOANK. It touched on the period of the revolution in Russia, the Bolseviks, the White/Red armies, the abdication and, later assassination of the Czar and his family. The second half of the book traces all the Faberge eggs that have been recovered or listed, at least. I think there were over fifty of them and the Forbes Collection had a race with Russia as to who could possess the most.
Armand Hammer, a collector of the eggs, is an interesting character:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_Hammer
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I'm reading Ted Kennedy's biography, TRUE COMPASS, A MEMOIR. It surprised me in that it's really keeping me turning pages. I got it mainly to read about his long years in the Senate, but am fascinated with the stories of his younger life, and with his family. And he has a good sense of humor. I had to laugh at some of the crazy stunts he did while campaigning for his brother, Jack -- like riding in a rodeo on a wildly jumping horse.
Another biography I really liked was that of Joe Biden, PROMISES TO KEEP. Loved his stories of his 35 years in the Senate, a job he loved. And the parts about his personal life were very good, often poignant and sometimes tragic. Also a very good read.
Marj
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Thanks, Marj, for letting us know about those two books. I've read the Joe Biden book and agree, but I haven't read Ted Kennedy's book. I will.
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I read True Compass and found it very interesting.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I like the Cicero quote. Some things are timeless aren't they; true then, true
now.
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The House at Sugar Beach, by Helene Cooper,is fascinating. It is her early life in Liberia, the country that the US founded before the Civil War for freed blacks. they sent over a few boatloads and promptly forgot about them
both Liberia's history, and Cooper's amazing career as a reporter fo r the Wall St. Jounal and the New York Times, are great reading.
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Thanks, Bellemere! I'll get it, I need a good nonfiction book to read, this one sounds very interesting.
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Yes, thank you bellemere. for your comment on Helene Cooper’s “House At Sugar Beach” book. Liberia should be an interesting subject. I would like to know more about it. I was aware of the circumstances of its founding but I am quite ignorant of its subsequent history. Ella if you get to see the book, please post further commenting on it.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-House-at-Sugar-Beach/Helene-Cooper/e/9780743266253/?itm=1&usri=The+House+On+Sugar+Beach
Click the above link for the B&N catalog page on this book. It has a better than average synopsis of the story..
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia Click the preceding link for a short history of Liberia. This outline if printed would fill 14, 8 1/2 X 11 inch pabes meaning it is a sisgnificant overview of the history of this Country from its inception to the present.
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A Special Announcement -
We've just opened a poll to assess interest in a number of titles for upcoming Book Discussions.
IF YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION, the titles in the header of the Suggestion Box (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.msg41589#msg41589) are links to reviews.
PLEASE MARK AS MANY TITLES THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO DISCUSS in depth in the coming months. (We're looking for a number of titles)
WHEN YOU ARE READY, THE POLL IS HERE
(http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=GY5huAKPlhGJzIlGtuN3wQ_3d_3d)
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HAROLD AND BELLEMERE, I reserved Cooper's book at the Library and will post about it later; meantime I am listening (while on the treadmill) to Whittaker Chambers by Sam Tannehaus (1997) which promises to be fascinating. I remember bits and pieces of it all but you forget with time. Here is one paragraph on a review, who can resist it?
"Whittaker Chambers is the first biography of this complex and enigmatic figure. Drawing on dozens of interviews and on materials from forty archives in the United States and abroad - including still classified KGB dossiers - Sam Tanenhaus traces the remarkable journey that led Chambers from a sleepy Long Island village to center stage in America's greatest political trial and, in his last years, to a unique role as the godfather of post-war conservatism."
Whittaker Chambers is rich in startling new information about every phase of its subject's varied life; his days as New York's 'hottest literary Bolshevik', his years as a Communist agent and then defector, hunted by the KGB, his conversion to Quakerism, his secret sexual turmoil, his subsequent decade at TIME, where he rose from the obscurity of the book review page to transform the magazine into an oracle of apocalyptic anti-Communism.
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JOANP, I see your post and I hope everyone votes for their selection.
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I just voted, for two of the books.
Ella, I have always been curious about Whittaker Chambers. This might be a good way to learn some answers to my questions about him.
I just finished watching a segment on C-Span 2's "Non fiction books". It was so interesting that I ordered the book for my Kindle. It is called: "The Harding Affair". What convinced me that I wanted to read it, was learning that it is also about what was going on in the world, from 1911. That period in time really fascinates me. I am intrigued by world affairs during the lifetimes of my grandparents, and my parents.
Sheila
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I started on Anne Bronte's "Agnes Grey". It's fiction, of course, but written in
the form of a journal, or biography. I thought the opening paragraph quite
relevant to some of our recent posts.
"All true histories contain instruction; though, in some, the treasure may be hard to find, and when found, so trivial in quantity that the dry, shrivelled kernel scarcely compensates for the trouble of cracking the nut."
:)
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Good one, BABI. Nuts are hard to crack at times and, particularly when they are hidden in a book!
SHEILA, is the book about President Harding's life? I don't think he was one of our better known presidents even if he was from Ohio (my home state). Didn't he campaign from his front porch and later involved in some scandal or other? But what president has NOT been involved in scandals? Well, there is Jimmy Carter, bless his heart!
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Ella, I am not sure how to answer your question, about Harding. I am just begining this book. It begins in 1911. Yes, it is about his life from then, until his death. The author was fascinating on C-Span. I believe he said that the woman, with the child she claimed was Harding's, isn't true. Instead, the love of his life was a married woman. She, and her husband, were friends with Harding and his wife. The two couples spent quite a bit of time together.
The author also said that Harding was one of our better presidents. News of WW I overtook publicty about Harding's accomplishments. I will let you know what I think of it, after I am more into the book.
Sheila
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Sheila -
I have not read any biographies of President Harding, but I did read a 1998 biography of his wife called Florence Harding: the first lady, the Jazz Age, and the death of America's most scandalous president by Carl Sferrazza Anthony. The strong arm tactics of the Harding supporters come through in her biography as they paid off and tried to hush up Harding's affairs. As we who read history know - nothing changes. People are people and politics are politics and the pendulum just swings back and forth between left and right and right and wrong. It all makes for interesting reading for us. Mary
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I also heard the talk on C-Span II on Pres. Harding. Very interesting.
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True, CubFan. And also true is that a position of power enables one to indulge
all the fantasies and take whatever is desired. How many are strong enough
to resist that kind of temptation?
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I was so disappointed when I picked up the Whittaker Chambers audio book at my library to discover it was on TAPE - tape! Usually the Library transfers those on tape to C.D, but as I listened to the first tape I can understand why they did not. IT'S THE READER! He reads in a monotone and much too fast, who would want to listen! Why an author would permit that I do not know.
I'll see about getting the book, I don't know how large it is.
Also I reserved the Harding book. It must be popular as the Library bought 21 copies (unusual for a nonfiction book) and there are 27 requests for it.
Thanks for suggesting it!
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When I first signed up with Verizon's DSL way back when, I got a free online audio books package for three months. I downloaded and copied several books to CD but never got around to listening to them before my subscription ran out. I didn't renew partly because I didn't find a lot of readers that did the books justice. The program was proprietary so I don't think I could have played the books on a regular CD player. The one CD that I thought was excellent was Basil Rathbone and Vincent Price reading Edgar Allen Poe. Excellent.
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FRYBABE - is that the life of Poe or is it just his poetry? I like the poetry, but would rather listen to a biography.
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They were reading his stories and poetry. Just imagine Vincent Price doing The Raven. Hey, didn't he do a movie around the poem?
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ELLA, I once discovered, to my disappointment, that a poet reading his
own poetry can also be a big mistake. You would think they would have a
natural feel for their own creation, but it doesn't always work that way.
My son wants me to read "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman. He wants to be able to
talk with somebody about it. Has anyone here read it? If so, what do you think of it?
Naturally, I'm going to read it since he asked, but I'd like a clearer idea of what it's about.
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Babi, I've found the same thing about poets reading their own works.
"American Gods": for a start, it's hardly non-fiction, more like fantasy. The narrator, just released from prison, takes a job with someone who is obviously Wotan in modern dress. There seem to be a lot of the old gods stuck in this country, brought over by immigrants, then left dangling when no one believed in them any more. We are traveling through a sleazy Middle America, meeting more of these gods along the way, and going toward some kind of showdown. I got tired of it half way through and stopped because it didn't seem to be going anywhere, but my daughter assures me I'm wrong and it's well worth finishing. It's well-written and vivid, and someday when I'm in the mood I'll pick it up and finish it.
If you read it, do tell us about it in sci-fi.
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Hi folks: Clicked in here by mistake - or chance and stayed to have a read of what you're up to. Lots of interesting titles mentioned though I'm not really in a position to start reading them all at present.
The mention by Babi of Agnes Grey caught my eye. I've done a lot of work on the Bronte literature at various times so would be glad to hear your thoughts Babi and anyone else's too. How do you think Anne Bronte compares with Charlotte and Emily? - she's a different kind of writer from her sisters of course and she cut her teeth with Agnes Grey - but her real strength is in The Tenant of Wildfell Hall - a much under rated book.
I agree with the comments about hearing a poet read his own work. I was all agog with excitement one time having secured a tape of T.S Eliot reading The Waste Land. What a disappointing let down! Yet Alec Guiness reading some of Eliot's other work was a joy to hear.... he somehow manages to imbue the poetry with more meaning and symbolism than I was then aware that it embodied.
Thanks everyone - I'm glad I stopped by today!
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So I discovered when I looked for it at the library, PAT. I had assumed it
was non-fiction from the title, and the fact that my son wanted to discuss it.
He has a poor opinion of formal 'religion', and he has probably found things in the book that he feels support that. Actually, while a person of firm faith, I find fault with 'religion', per se, myself. In my mind, they are not the same thing.
I am finding "Agnes Grey" pleasant enough, GUM, but Anne Bronte is not a
writer of her sisters' caliber. She lacks their wit and her characters seem too
one-sided. She occasionally moralizes too long, to the point where I skip to
the end of the lecture. Still, I care about 'Agnes' enough to finish the book.
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"The Harding Affair", by James David Robenalt, is fascinating to me. I keep thinking about Ella, living in Ohio. So many towns in Ohio are in this book.
Warren Harding was said to have had a child, out of wedlock. This book says that isn't true. He did have an affair, with the wife of a friend of his. They met in 1905. Harding spent time at Kellogg's health institute in Battlecreek, Michigan, several times. He reccomended it to his close friend.
During World War I, his lover was thought to be a German spy. The book says that his wife was not physically affectionate, following her stroke. It is also said that he was a very handsome man.
I do not want to stop reading it. So, many people I have heard of are in it. I like the author's writing style, also.
Sheila
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SHEILA, I am just starting to read the Harding Affair and it is interesting. I haven't gotten very far along, but I do recognize the towns. Certainly! I have heard of Harding off and on all my life so this will add much to all the rumors about the man and the scandals.
After taking the Chambers audio book back to the Library, I got another and it is very good. FIVE DAYS IN LONDON: May, 1940, by John Lukacs.
Will we ever lose our fascination with WWII? So many countries involved, all of Europe, and, of course, America. The men, the leaders, Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, FDR - they are such familiar names to people of my generation. Will they continue to be of interest in the future? Somehow I do not see anyone of their stature, good or bad, on the horizon.
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the House at Sugar Beach lost some of its unique appeal once Helene and her family leave Liberia after the coup d'etat. Cooper's story is a typical "immigrant kid makes good in USA" and, in truth, she has had a rerarkable success as a journalist for the Wall St. Journal and the New York Times. When she returns to a Liberia still strife ridden and finds her foster sister again, the book sort of regains its integrity. All in all, I enjoyed it, and I am grateful for the insight I gained into a different culture. I remembered that a college classmate was Liberian, and I googled her. Sure enough, she married a Cooper, and served her country in different capacities. There is a school named after her. She was Hilda Knight Cooper, a relly lovely young woman when I knew her; her father was in some ambassador type, either in Washington or at the U.N.
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Well, I am now at chapter 7, in the Harding book. At this point it seems to be more about the woman, with whom Harding had his lengthy affair. Also, about his lover's family. I am disappointed. But, I will continue to read.
I am not nearly as interested in the details, of his affair with Carrie Phillips. I am much more interested in historical information. Chapter 7, is back to Harding's political life, when he ran for Governor of Ohio, in 1910. At this point I do not know if I reccomend this book, or not.
Sheila
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Sheila, I am of the same opinion after reading a few chapters. This is not a good biography of Harding at all. Am disappointed!
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However, the book by John Luckas - FIVE DAYS IN LONDON: 1940 is fascinating. I'm listening to the audio and I think I'll get the book to read. I have always wondered why Hitler did not cross the channel when he conquered France and stopped! Britain was so weak at the time and could have been attacked and the British Empire could have crumpled and the war won. Many, many reasons.
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Alain de Botton is an English philosopher whose essays are wonderfully readable. "The
Art of Travel" tells you not WHERE to travel but how and why.
"The Status Seekers" deals with our civilzation's "insatiable quest for status" and is funny as well as clear headed. and "The Consolations of Philosophy" summarizes some of the great philosophical thinkers of history, Epicurus, Seneca, Nietsche. I am stuck however on his latest "The
Architecture of Happiness' which actually is about architecture, and is getting over my head. Has anyone else read this wonderful English polymath?His works are available in paperback and are not long.
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The "Consolations of Philosophy" sounds intriguing to me, BELLE. I
would like to have at least a summary of the great philophers thinking.
I have done a bit of reading in some of them, and have vague ideas of
others. I'd like to 'pin down' some of those ideas.
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I'm reading You'll Never Nanny in this Town Again, which is absolutely marvelous. Names names, right now we're dealing with the "great" Michael Ovitz. I liked Diary of a Nanny which was a super movie which they keep playing on TV, in which the names were changed, but this one is even better and you really get a feel for what parenting is like out in LA. It's hard to put down actually.
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Babi, Alain de Botton's book is for you! of all the ancient philosophers he summarizes, the
Greek Epicurus appealed most to me. Having always associated the word "epicurean:" with fancy food, I found how wrong I was. You can get all his books in paperback. If you do get Consolations of Philosohy, I would love to hear what you think of it.
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My library only has the Botton book in audio, unfortunately. I'll have to
look for it elsewhere. Since I've never had any problems whatsoever with
'status anxiety', I think I can skip that one even tho' the library does have it.
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I got to my 100 pages of Julia Child's My Life in France, and I think I'll quit before I get heartburn.I have lost all sense of guilt about not finishing a book; I will give it 100 pages max and move on if it doesn't do it for me.
I think when you eat French food a la Julia, you are basically eating butter, wine , and cream, with a little fish or veggie thrown in.
the descriptions of the restaurant meals in Paris were pretty inspiring, but I am too American to relish the idea of eating a lark or brains or sweetbreads, which I think are some animal's pancreas, is that right? Anyway, au revoir and bon appetite, Julia.
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SERENA: After listening to this - click below for a fascinating radio interview - I think I shall go back to the Harding book and read a bit more. At least, take another look at it, how are you doing with it? I don't think much of the author but in this interview the president, the man and his "take" on war and peace seem to be right on! I never knew about Harding's Birmingham affair, did you? And the author seems to believe that if Harding had been president, instead of Woodrow Wilson, the world would have been a better place. Interesting indeed to think about.
And racial diversity??? What do you think? Type in "President Harding" in the search box at the top of this page for the interview:
http://radiotime.com/program/p_1631/All_Sides.aspx
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I am still reading the "Harding" book." Ella, are you familiar with the "Golden Lamb", in Lebannon, Ohio? They serve wonderful meals. We go there every Christmas. On the inside front wall, is a list of all of the Presidents who have stayed there, and/or eaten there. I believe that Harding is among those listed.
In addition, I am reading "Night", by Elie Wiesel. It is powerful. Only a little over 100 pages. It is his story of how his family were picked up, and transported to one of the prison camps.
Sheila
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Funny you should ask, Sheila. I went on a day's journey with a group from our Senior Center and we ate lunch at the Golden Lamb, which, as you say, has very good food. I was there a number of times in the '70's as my daughter graduated from the University of Cincinnati. Their campus does not allow autos on it, so there were quite a number of trips to and fro for four years.
After lunch we went to a fascinating place where this fellow started growing bamboo after he got fired from an insurance company some years ago. He had started a privacy fence in bamboo, so he got interested in the product, expanded and now has a thriving business selling world wide. He sells to many zoos as pandas eat bamboo. There are many, many species of the plant, and it does not grow real tall in Ohio because of our winters but it does well enough.
I'll go back to the HARDING book. Did you listen to the radio interview? It was very good!
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I read "Night" many years ago. A very powerful book: I shall never forget it.
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Yes, I have read "NIGHT" also, Serena and Joan. Some long years ago, but have never forgotten it.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
ELLA, I love stories about people who find new and interesting careers
after losing a job. Sometimes what seems like bad news turns out to
be the best thing that could have happened.
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Hello, everyone. Some of you might be interested in a program that will be broadcast on PBS on October 28 in some areas. It's called Botany of Desire and is based on the nonfiction book by Michael Pollan. Has anyone here read the book?
The book explores the nature of domesticated plants from the dual perspective of humans and the plants themselves. Pollan presents case studies that mirror four types of human desires that are reflected in the way that we selectively grow, breed, and genetically engineer our plants. The apple reflects the desire of sweetness, the tulip beauty, marijuana intoxication, and the potato control. Learn and access more, including an 18-minute video, Perspectives from the Arts, Humanities and Sciences, in which a panel of professors from UC Berkeley discuss the importance various themes and technologies described in the book. See http://www.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire. If any of you view it, we can talk about it in our PBS discussion at http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=918.0
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This guy certainly know how to make a botany lesson appeal to the
masses. ;D
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So, if you had only one choice of plant to put in your garden, which would you choose?
I think BEAUTY!
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Serena, I'm still reading the Harding book; I decided to skip over the every-other chapters about the female spy, finding that method of writing a book very confusing. It subtracts from the purpose of the book; the author could have substituted those chapters (if he needed to flesh out his book) by writing more of the period in which Harding lived and those around him in influential positions.
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A book by Douglas Preston (of Preston-Lincoln Child ) titled the MONSTER OF FLORENCE promises to be an interesting read. A true story.
Preston in 1969 spent a summer in Italy, became enchanted, later moving there with his family. In a cafe he met an Italian journalist by the name of Mario Spezi who told him of a series of murders that had never been solved in the area. WELL! Do I need to go on????
He and Spezi set out to uncover the mysteries and attempt to solve the murders - pictures of it all included in the book
I think we should read it together, don't you? All the nonfiction readers and mystery lovers together? A noted author?
It has the smell of success!
YOU CAN READ THE FIRST CHAPTER ONLINE HERE:
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/LITTLems/monster_of_florence_chap_1.pdf
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JoanK, I have enjoyed all of the fiction books written by Douglas Preston so I do plan on reading this non-fiction book although it sounds like there are some gruesome details in the murders. Hopefully, the book doesn't dwell on the methods of murder and mutilation.
There is an article about the book at http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/apr/12/hunt-for-the-monster-of-florence. It looks like Tom Cruise has acquired the rights to produce (and maybe star) in a movie based on the book, focused on Preston and Mario Spezi, the Italian journalist who helped him investigate the crimes.
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You've got me hooked. Let's read it, and see if we think it would make a good discussion.
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Good, MARCIE AND JOANK!
Hahaaa, Joan. Let's do both at the same time, huh? And..................
don't read it before we discuss it!
So, I'll try and get a Proposal up for ?????????????
I'll let you all know and meantime, spread the word - we'll have to post this in the Mystery folder and the Books around the World??
Should be a good crowd to discuss the book!
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This book has not arrived at my library yet, but I do want to check it out.
http://www.amazon.com/Ayn-Rand-World-She-Made/dp/0385513992/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256829716&sr=8-1
It's just out, but if it is a good bio it will make the winter months go by smoothly, I hope, with no intervention of ice and snow outside.
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Ella, I just read a review of the Ayn Rand bio last night. I remember reading "Atlas Shrugged" and thinking, "I don't blame him." :)
Also read and saw "The Fountainhead". I liked the book better than the movie (Patricia Neal and Gary Cooper?).
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Hello to all here!
Here's a link to one of our proposed discussions which is scheduled for February.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?board=75.0
Entitled "America's Prophet-Moses and the American Story," our author, Bruce Feiler, takes us on a tour of quotes and historical events referring to Moses who seems to be very important in the history of our country.
Do let us know if you will be joining us by posting at that site.
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Hi CALLIE: I didn't see the movie you mentioned. Truth be told, I never liked either Patricia Neal or Gary Cooper.
I've read both of Ayn Rand's novels, but it was many, many years ago, and have vague memories of them. I do remember she wrote a book, I believe, called WE, THE PEOPLE, or something like that, that I enjoyed very, very much, but it was never popular. It was about Russia as I recall.
I'll have to look that last book up, I'm not sure of it.
ANN: I have already posted in the American Prophet book. I will be there. We discussed an earlier book by Feiler and it was very good and this one looks as promising!
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I'm mostly a fiction reader but Florence and Jack-the-ripper is too good to pass up. Sign me up. Most nof the non-fiction I read is science related or has literary ties. Right now I'm reading Red moon rising : Sputnik and the hidden rivalries that ignited the Space Age / Matthew Brzezinski. My son was born Oct. 3 1957 and I didn't hear about Sputnik until the ride home from the hospital. This is a fascinatinbg account beginning with the development of the V2. Brzezinski is a good writer and he has a real story ntotell.
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hmmm Ella that book by Preston sounds interesting indeed!
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Did any of you catch the PBS show 8:00 – 10:00 PM central last night. This show was based on a book entitled “The Botany of Desire” by Michael Pollan. Our Seniornet/books had an interesting discussion of this title in January 2002. Click the following for the archive: http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/BotanyofDesire.html
This book PBS presented an interesting discussion of the social impact of four plants, the apple, the tulip, marianna, and the potato. I have to admit I did not see the entire 2 hour show as I was constantly switching back and forth to and from the spurs opening night. Also I have to admit that I was a late arrival to the discussion seven years ago.. As I remember I was a late arrival in the discussion after it got off to a rather slow start. My contribution was principally my injection of the thought that the chocolate bean plant might have been a logical addition to the four that were included. I saw enough of the program to find it both interesting and enjoyable, and the spurs beat New Orleans rather soundly.
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We watched the program, Harold - it was a good one.
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There are bits of chocolate history throughout my son-in-laws chocolate cookbook: "Chocolate on the Brain" by Kevin and Nancy Mills. Its history is fascinating.
I'm really sorry I missed the show -- was watching the Pheonix/Denver game and forgot.
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Harold, I didn't realize that the book, Botany of Desire, was discussed. I'll read the posts in the archives. Thank you for pointing that out.
I loved the program. It was interesting and thought-provoking. The full video might be available online at http://vodpod.com/watch/2421491-full-length-program-botany-of-desire-pbs-video
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I would read The Monster of Florence, depending on the amount of gore and detail, that is in the murders.
I found the article cited here about Douglas Preston's adventures in trying to write it fascinating in itself, and printed IT out. I think I would be in for that one if somebody decides to offer it. I'm quite fond of Preston and Childs, normally.
I finished up You'll Never Nanny in This Town Again and have started the "riveting" and "spellbinding" Mrs. Astor Regrets, about Brooke Astor and "the hidden betrayals of a family beyond reproach."
it's been in the news lately, how her son contrived to loot her estate and it's an incredible book, even Tom Brokaw says "it's all here."
Truth is so often stranger than fiction, and in this case apparently that was unhappily so. i was hooked in Barnes and Noble just reading Barbara Walters' account of how Brooke Astor moved through her garden and around town. REALLY well written, it's hard to put down, actually.
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I skimmed through and then read a couple of chapters, nay, more than a couple of the Preston book. It's not my "cup of tea" - it's stronger than tea!
Ginny, I know that you are a Preston reader, and Marcie, also, so I suggest that you two do the "honors" of presenting this book for discussion when you get time.
Have you traveled in Florence, Ginny? Have you, Marcie?
The book is divided into two parts, the first half written by Spezi. The the second half, written by Preston, is more appealing - to me, that is! And so much art history, it will be a delight!
However, the murders are gruesome and should be tackled lightly!
I think I am better off with biographies of people, rather than crime.
Back to finish Harding!
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Ginny, I have read the Brooke Astor book, interesting isn't it? I think the title may have come from the song, Mrs. Astor Regrets. Isn't there such a song? I vaguely recall. I'll go look it up!
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hahaha Ella, have you noticed the number of posts under my name? If I did do the Preston I'd have to do it in August, 6 discussions/ classes per day is enough to occupy my time, but I could chirp along if Marcie would like to offer it.
Thank you for talking about what it's like. Yes I've been to Florence, several times. Brunelleschi's Dome is one of the best books on Florence I have read, now, with your comments, I am intrigued, I really do want to read the Preston.
IS Mrs. Astor Regrets a song!!?? I have never heard it, if so. ISN'T it well written, I love it. Wasn't there something in the news just last week on the court case?
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JoanG has also been to Florence many times. She shared pictures with us when we discussed Bruneleschi's Dome back in the the olden days of SN.
I would think that this book you are talking about would get a good turnout. I think there was a lot interest in Florence then also.
I don't even remember your title but if I had time, I would join in also.
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Well, I had to look it up on some of my jazz CD's. The song was MRS. OTIS REGRETS and it is hilarious. I remember playing this for my daughter one time and she thought it was awful and then she smiled.
Miss Otis regrets she's unable to lunch today, Madam,
Miss Otis regrets she's unable to lunch today,
She's so sorry to be delayed,
But last evening down in Lover's Lane she strayed, Madam,
Miss Otis regrets she's unable to lunch today, madam,
When she woke up and found that her dream of love had gone, Madam,
She ran to the man who led her so far astray,
And from under her velvet gown,
She drew a forty-four pistol,
And she shot that dirty rascal down, Madam,
Now, Old Lady Otis regrets she's disabled and she can't lunch today.
And the moment before she died,
She lifted her lovely head and cried, "Oh, Madam,
Miss Otis regrets she's unable to lunch today."
There are more verses, but you get the idea
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When sung by the right singer Miss Otis Regrets can be a wry blues ballad and very moving.
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Mrs. Otis Regrets... How fun, Ella. Cole Porter (and Noel Coward) could really write lyrics!
I think if you are turned off by the crime elements in The Monster of Florence, Ella, some others probably would be also. That would be a big consideration in offering a discussion of a book like that. I've never visited Florence.
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I've never seen the lyrics to "Miss Otis Regrets" before. I thought the lines were "Miss Otis regrets she's unable to rise today". Now that I
think back, I believe that was a pun. It was a note posted on a non-operating Otis elevator.
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OH, BABI, THAT IS SO FUNNY!
Did you make that up or did you really see that in an Otis elevator?
Marcie, crime, true crime at that, is not for me. I do like a good mystery now and then, but the Preston/Spezi book was too gory by far, although I did participate in THE DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY which was mild compared to this. That book had historical interest.
There are some elements in the book, undoubtedly, that are interesting. I briefly read about Preston moving his family there which included two children, ages 5 and 6 and he wrote about how easily they picked up the language. Children could do that. And I think the adjustment to a new culture for the whole family would be interesting.
Would you move halfway around the world and enroll two small children in a foreign school where English was not spoken? Something to think about.
I was in Rome for two weeks with an Elderhostel group and we learned a bit (and a lot about art which I have forgotten) but I have remembered some of the culture, e.g. all members of a family must go to Mama's for Sunday dinner and if not the whole family, then the son - the son! The sun rises and sets in the son!
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The Story of Civilization has been active as a discussion group for eight years. We are now talking and reading about Italy during the Renaissance years.
Things happen in this period of history that change the way of the world forever. They are happening again in our discussion.
Come share with us this discussion of one of the most significant periods in the history of the world. You'll be glad you came and you will gain in understanding why we are where we are today.
On Sunday, we will have a celebration of eight years of discussion, and of making our way in only eight years from living in caves to the glories of the Renaissance.
For Seniorlearn members, go to http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=64.360
If you’re not a member, go to http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?action=help
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I read about it, ELLA, and just assumed the quote from 'Miss Otis Regrets' was verbatim. But somebody was clever, weren't they?
It looks like the gory part that's putting people off was written by
that guy Spezi; the latter part of the book is Preston's, according to
one of the posts above. So I'll just avoid any Spezi books, and continue
to enjoy Preston.
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I've read The Monster of Florence - given to me because I love mysteries and I'm an artist. The "gory parts" didn't bother me, I just didn't particularly care for the book - on any level.
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How about George Eliot's ROMOLA as an alternative ticket to revisit Florence. I remember having it recommended to me by a very knowledgable paricipant in Story of Civilization when we were reading BRUNELLESCHI'S DOME. Eliot thought it her most satisfactory piece of writing.
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The Story of Civilization has been active as a discussion group for eight years. We are
now talking and reading about Italy during the Renaissance years.
That period in history was launched by reports of the travels of Marco polo and the
reappearance of classical objects from antiquity. Early archeologists unearthed what once
was Rome and the Arabs of Spain brought Greek and Roman documents to 13th century
Italy. Genovese and Pisan trade with others around the Mediterranean basin brought new
Hellenic influences to the Italian peninsula. Artists were ready to break out of the
idealistic constrictions of the past and to push into more realistic areas of art expression.
Trade brought new wealth to Italian merchants and gave rise to a moneyed merchant
class. The new wealth found it's way to the Papacy and it encouraged dissipation among
the Popes of the period. This led to abuses and to conflict with European royalty and
dissension from within the Church.
Things happen in this period of history that change the way of the world forever. We can
never go back and it all happened here.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=64.new;topicseen#new
Come share with us this discussion of one of the most significant periods in the history of
the world. You'll be glad you came and you will gain in understanding why we are where
we are today.
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Hello, JONATHAN! I haven't heard from you in a long time. What are you reading?
Any good nonfiction, historical, biographical, anything like that?
I have made a vow to finish the Harding book although it is a tedious task at times. The author just made a reference to Teddy Roosevelt's journey to the River of Doubt which greatly impaired his health.
That was a recent book and a very good one - RIVER OF DOUBT!
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JONATHAN: we miss you in SOC.
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JOANK: I've often thought of joining all of you in SOC, but think if I get involved in that it will deduct from other books and other pleasures in reading.
The HARDING book can be very interesting at times, when the author forgets the love affairs; obviously he thinks that is why we want to read books and, also, he feels privileged to be the first person ever to have access to the love letters between Harding and his mistress.
Little items of interest. During the first World War the British blockaded shipments to Germany and Austria/Hungary which caused hundreds of thousands of civilians to die of starvation. We later joined in this blockade.
To put pressure on America to stop the British, the Germans came up with the idea of completely embargoing dyes which would throw 4 million Americans out of work. Our textile industry depended upon the dyes which German scientists, through advancement in chemistry, had invented. From their laboratories and their experiments with coal tar came, not only the dyes, but explosives (TNT) which originally was a yellow dye, and another product which went into the manufacture of aspirin - Bayer Aspirin.
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I know all the textile mills of yesterday have disappeared and New England suffered greatly from their loss.
So the question is: who, today, makes cloth? Who makes the dyes? I know the end process, the clothing, comes from all the world (look at labels), but who makes the cloth and the dyes.
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Ella, that's a great question. I tried to find information on what countries make textiles. A lot of the data I could find mixes textiles and finished clothing. Here is a website that shows the top 10 countries in 2007 in pictures. Click the right arrow above the photo to go to the next one: http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/28/style-clothes-foreign-forbeslife-cx_ls_outsourcing08_0529offshore_slide2_2.html?thisSpeed=15000
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The 1930s is a decade that has a lot of similarities with today. On Monday, my local PBS station will be showing "The Civilian Conservation Corps" as part of The American Experience series. See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/ccc. It looks very interesting.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
.Thanks for reminding me about that one, Marcie.
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My PBS station is showing that program also, MARCIE. We renewed our interest in FDR's programs of the Depression when we discussed Frances Perkins recently.
After that program, is one about the trial of Leo Frank which also looks interesting.
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That was an interesting site, Marcie, about the clothing industry. Here are two paragraphs of the article:
unless you're a 19-year-old with a closet full of American Apparel (amex: APP - news - people ) items, it's very rare to see the words "Made in the U.S.A." stamped on the tag of your shirt. Or "Made in Italy" sewn on the inside of your luxury handbag. Or "Made in France" imprinted on a perfume box, for that matter. It's all about quality and price, not where the product was made.
Why? For one, cheap labor doesn't always spawn cheap-looking clothes. "There are manufacturers in China that employ highly-skilled workers who can produce goods that measure up against what's made in the U.S. or Western Europe," says Josh Green, chief executive of Panjiva.com, a Web-based service with offices in New York and Shanghai. Panjiva provides detailed information on over 40,000 apparel and textile manufacturers in over 140 countries, as well as a ratings system that measures everything from efficiency to ethical codes
Many years ago (how often I have said those two words) Americans were urged to buy only clothing with the label "Made in America." There was a labor union promoting either that or a similar slogan.
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'the mills of yesterday'...would that make a good title for something on the huge industry in the New England of a hundred years ago? They haven't all disappeared, Ella. Many are there still to be seen, some looking pretty desolate, others converted into condos or business sites.
Thanks for the PBS/CCC doc tonight, Marcie. I had it marked on my calendar, but I probably would have forgotten it, what with all the new reading I've acquired in the last week or two, at the annual bookfairs here in town. At least fifty new titles, all over the bibliomap. I've made a start on half of them.
I've just put down FREUD'S WIZARD, a biography of Ernest Jones, who did so much to make Freud acceptable to the English speaking world.
Two more biographies of fascinating characters, Dante and Savonarola, both of Florence fame. That's why the suggested Florence book mentioned here caught my eye. And wasn't Florence the U.S.A. of Europe five hundred years ago, providing capital and culture to all the world. Even provided someone like Machiavelli with plenty of material for a manual on politics.
How about something with the title, Captain Bigh's Portable Nightmare, with an account of his adventures after being thrown off his ship by those nasty mutineers? Naturally he saw them all hanged when he eventually got back to England.
Law and the courts always fascinate me so I got From the Diaries of Felix Frankfurter, as well as the The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection. These two kept showing up in Frances Perkins life, and they did pursue an active political life, exerting considerable influence in politcal affairs. I also got a bio of Learned Hand, such a prominent name in U.S. legal matters. And a recent book by Jeffrey Toobin, The Nine; Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court. I should be able to practice law if I finish all these.
For distraction I got Ulysses S. Grant's Personal Memoirs, and Goethe: Die Reisen, to brush up on my German. I believe he takes his readers to Florence and Rome.
I'll be back with the other 37 titles another time. How about, A Short History of Tractors in Ukrainian? It's hilarious. The 80-something widower who is snared by a young golddigger, which really complicates the lives of his two daughters. Hey, you gotta have some light reading too.
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Jonathan! What an intriguing list of books. I'll be looking forward to seeing the other 37 titles you bought!
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Jonathan: Some of us are having serious trouble with our compulsive book buying. We'll be starting a twelth step program soon. Care to join us?
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Compulsive book buying! Yes, I need to stop that also. When I decide that I have been exceptionally good (done a few things I don't want to do), I drive to B&N, look and buy, and have lunch at P.F.Chang's, sometimes with a glass of white wine.
A few of those books were not worthy, sad to say.
JONATHAN, let us know if you find one we could spend some time with.
The young men on the CCC program looked healthy and happy didn't they? Food, shelter, clothing, cleaniness makes a whale of a difference; how degrading it must have been for many of them to hit the road, leaving their family behind. ONe young man said his father had put him out of the house, sad.
The Hoover dam was built by CCC? Why was it named for Hoover then? Or was it? My husband went to a convention in Las Vegas years ago and was awed by its size and splendor.
LIkewise I loved a swimming pool in one of W.Va. parks built by the CCC. What could be different about a swimming pool? This one was surrounded by a low stone wall with plantings all around, as I remember it, it was just lovely and I inquired about it. Would like to go back soon and see it all again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oglebay_Park
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Did you watch the Leo Frank documentary? I had never heard of this case before and was horrified by it. The racism, the southern attitude toward the north; perhaps left over from the Civil War? The trial led to a re-emergence of the KKI, and the leading townsmen were in on the lynching?
Unbelievable! Were they ever interviewed later I wonder to see if they had regrets over the hanging of this poor fellow?
Frank, it seemed to me, had very poor defense; the family and the Jewish community could have afforded the best but this Rosser fellow certainly was not in that league.
Has anyone read about the case in the book mentioned. I believe the title was AND THE DEAD SHALL RISE.
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Jonathan: that does sound like quite a haul. I'd love to read a biography of Dante: all those enemies of his that he's thinking up horrible punishments for in The Inferno. I always wondered what they did to HIM!
But we definitely need a book-buyers anonymous. It's too easy to click on Amazon. Worse, my local Barnes and Noble carries double chocolate cheesecake from The Cheesecake factory, so buying books is not only expensive, it's fattening!
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Jonathan, I'll be interested to hear what you think of the Bligh book. We read his journal on the old site, and it was quite a remarkable feat sailing that little boat 3600 miles to safety.
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Ella,
I lived in the county and the town where the Leo Frank affair occurred and we have seen a few documentaries plus movies based on it over the years. It was just a horrible thing to have happened and inexcusably defended by the KKK and many others when it happened. I can't remember the names of the movies that I saw while living there. But, it was all true. They hung the man in the Marietta Square, where 50 or 60 yrs later, we attended many festivals, on stage theatre offerings, music in the park, plus all of the restaurants.
If you click on the link below and go to Page 37 (if it isn't what comes up) of that book of photos, I think that might be the swimming pool that you mentioned but I don't see any pictures or an island in the middle, (mentioned in another site else that I uncovered). I must say that I was just pulled right in to this book of photos of Oglebey Park and spent a bit of time just perusing them. And, I note that Dr Alan Fawcett was the first lifeguard. Is that the Fawcett that the OSU Fawcett Center is named after?
http://books.google.com/books?id=Fho584EEKzYC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=Oglebay+Park%27s+swimming+pool&source=bl&ots=ceSjOBplI7&sig=0Kws6WLdb4pQbbWOAGA-eYJ8N2c&hl=en&ei=GbPwSsTeEtG6lAenzMD6CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Oglebay%20Park%27s%20swimming%20pool&f=false
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You remind me of old stories from my Dad, ELLA. He wasn't in the CCC, but he 'hit the road' as a teenager, following the harvests. He said things were too tight at home with four kids, and he wanted his twin brother to be able to finish high school, so he left. He had a few good stories to tell.
As for the Southern attitude toward the North, no 'perhaps' about it.
The Northern carpetbaggers made things even worse after the end of the war, and the Southerners retreated into a bulwark of resentment that
lasted for a century or more. One can still find the remains of that
attitude toward a 'Yankee'. For a long time the word down South was
'damnyankee'. I remember hearing of a judge presiding over a divorce
trial who stated he had never known of a Southern woman marrying a Yankee who didn't live to regret it.
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BABI, such attitude of southerners are understandable. It was a dreadful war and I'm sure that each family has handed down stories of the northerners both during and after the Civil War. A little similar to veterans of WWII hating the Japanese and the German, and the same with the Vietnam veterans. Wars are not easily forgotten and, in fact, the shelves of any library or bookstore would look much emptier without books about them.
HELLO ANN! Did you watch the program on PBS? I was absolutely amazed by that site you gave us about OGLEBAY PARK and its history. The pictures are not very good and you simply cannot get the beauty of that pool but the park is a lovely one and is famous for its Christmas lights. I think I will just have to go down there soon! Wanta come?
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My husband remembers his sister dating a CCC boy and having to meet him on the porch; he was not invited into the house.
In Western Mass. the main CCC project was Quabbin Reservoir, for which 4 towns were leveled and "drowned" by a river diversion to form a water supply for Boston and environs. The CCC boys worked demolihing the buildings, cutting down the trees and moving coffins from burialgrounds to new ones in another town. The surrounding area is rapicly returning to wilderness but for years you could see, from a boat, the layout of the streets below the water. You can still see some old cellar holes and the cement plinth that held the Civil War monumental cannon.
On the last night in the old town, the day before everybody had to be out, there was a dance in the town hall; the band played "Home Sweet Home" ; lots of tears.
Once a year, descendants of the the town residents are allowed to drive through the grounds, otherwise, no cars are allowed. Beautiful hiking, and wildlife photo ops ; some fishing from boats and a trout stream allowed; the whole area is a favorite outdoor spot. So thanks to the boys of the CCC.
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Bellemere, thanks for sharing that wonderful story of the good work done by the CCC. The idea of seeing the layout of the streets below the water is haunting. I'm sure some authors have used that image in their books.
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Another government dam project, not CCC, was the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) which displaced 15,000 families. This was an extremely bold experiment by FDR creating an entity which encroached the states of Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi. Kentcky, Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia. Historically its impact is stupendous; the Coen Brothers movie, Oh, Brother,Where Are Thou, uses the creation of a fictional dam as its foundation. See more at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority
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And most of the folks who live here in the Tennessee Valley are very glad that the TVA was created.
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And most of the folks who live here in the Tennessee Valley are very glad that the TVA was created.
All except the ones that were displaced. I don't really mean that as a criticism, it was a tremendously good thing. Another CCC project was Shenandoah National Park (Skyline Drive), which also displaced a few people. But I've enjoyed it all my life.
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You're quite right, Pat. :)
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Whole towns destroyed by the CCC? Imminent Doman? Is that how they did that? It's understandable that sometimes it is necessary but think of the families being displaced. Much legal work involved to obtain that land I would think.
Years ago, we had a slice of our acreage taken by the government for use as an exit ramp for a freeway. My husband was furious! We didn't want the freeway to begin with and then to take a bit of our land?? He fought it for months and got legal help over the whole incident. Well do I remember that! As many of those families did I am sure.
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Apparently the TVA lands were owned by what could be termed hard scrabble poor whose families had farmed there for generations. What could those families do in the midst of the Great Depression without their farms to grow their food, scanty though it might have been. Where could they have gone but to cities and towns where they became statistics of unemployed, homeless. Tragic.
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The TVA has an interesting history, and apparently still is controversial. Note at the bottom that Ronald Reagan's criticism helped propel him into politics and the governorship of California.
Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_valley_authority
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I am reading a very interesting bio of Marjorie Merriweather Post by Nancy Rubin. Their are many facets of interest in this book - the reason Post began the cereal business and how General Foods developed; Christian Science; Marjorie's husbands (the first one became the grandfather to Glenn Close, the second on was E.F. Hutton who was a great financier, but also uncle to Barbara Hutton, the third one was ambassador to Russia); the life of the VERY rich - her houses, her yatchs, her philanthopy, etc.; her dgt Dina Merrill.
I reccommend it, altho it is stuffed full of detail and sometimes gets tedious..................jean
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I bookmarked the TVA for later reading. My husband and I had (and still have) a lot of our savings invested in TVA bonds. I don't know if it's a good idea, but it's been a good investment.
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JEAN, I read a book about her not too long ago, aren't those heiresses fascinating? Ginny was reading about Mrs. Astor.
From a library visit yesterday, I brought home a bio of Henry Kissinger by Walter Isaacson (whoee! a heavy book); Bruce Feiler's book AMERICA'S PROPHET, which we are discussing in February (looks very good); Homer and Longley by E.L.Doctorow, and What Else but Home by Michael Rosen (the story of a family who adopted five older children from urban homes (looks excellent).
What would you read first?
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People are reimbursed in those 'imminent domain' takeovers. How fair the payments are I wouldn't know. And of course, if it's land that's been in the family for generations, no payment would be enough to compensate for the loss of a beloved home.
It's the old standard, I suppose. What is best for the majority?
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Ella, read the Feiler book first. I'll be dying of curiousity waiting to hear what that's all about. Moses as the father of modern America? Absolutely unconstitutional. Moses was too undemocratic for that.
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Jonathan,
Why don't you join us in February when we read and discuss "America's Prophet"? You would be a welcome addition to what promises to be an eye opening history of our country, our leaders and citizens who quoted much of the Moses' sections of the Bible.
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I won't be at all surprised. The Commandments and biblical teachings
are at the very root of much of America's laws.We forget how firmly
rooted in Christian beliefs and ethics that generation was.
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Can't wait to start this discussion and would really like to see people such as Jonathon in there with us. I am really looking forward to your sharing your formidable knowledge concerning the Bible.
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Talk about serendipity! I turned on the TV yesterday morning and watched as Charles Stanley talked about the influence of the Bible and Christian beliefs in the formation of the Declaration of Independence.
There have been many claims in recent decades that the 'founding fathers' were Deists and that religion had no role in the formation of our
govenment. That, frankly, is a bunch of hooey. About half of the men who assembled to write that Declaration had seminary degrees. Four of them,..or was it five?...wrote translations of the Bible for various purposes. Some were active ministers.
The session opened with prayer...about three hours of it!...and Bible reading. Stanley quoted a letter from John Adams to Abigail on how strongly Psalm 35 had altered their approach to their issues with Britain.
During the months of deliberation, days of prayer and fasting alternated with days of prayer and thanksgiving whenever those present felt the need of them. About 15 times, according to Stanley.
Those writers who wished to downplay the role of faith in establishing our government concentrated on Franklin and Jefferson, ignoring the rest of the assembly. I won't even try to comment on all Stanley had to say
about the background and lives of some of those others, but their firm religious stance was unmistakable.
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YOu are so right, BABI. Feiler gives us numerous examples of the influence of Moses on our founding fathers. Forever on our Libery Bell there is this: "Proclaim liberty thoughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof."- Leviticus 25
Recently, Hillary Clinton in a speech during the recent presidential campaign remarked: "every bit progress you try to make there's always gonna be somebody to say 'You know, I think we should go back to Egypt.'" President Obama, in 2007 in Selma Alabama, said "We are in the presence of a lot of Moseses. I thank the Moses generation, but we've got to remember that Joshua still had a job to do. As great as Moses was....he didn't cross over the river to see the Promised Land."
The Pilgrims were searching for a promised land - the settlers at Jamestown likened themselves to Moses - for centuries European explorers had set out for new lands without using similar expression, but the founders did and, consequently, we can state that Moses became the story of America.
I'm learning much in Feiler's book; all of which will make for a good discussion in February.
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The Walter Isaacson book is difficult to put down - and hold up; all 900 pages of it.
Why is this brilliant writer not able to condense his books a little in order to make them manageable by readers? I love his writing. The KISSINGER biography is the book most of us would love to write if we could write. Kissinger, a man who Isaacson states over and over is brilliant, conspiratorial, furtive, sensitive, prone to rivalries and power struggles, charming, deceitful, maneuvering, ambitious, secretive and on and on. He did, indeed, pick a good subject; is this why no one has attempted a bio of the man before?
Have any of you read any of Isaacson's books before? The Benjamin Franklin one, the Einstein? All similar in weight!
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No, but both Benjamin franklin and Einstein were very interesting men. I can see why the Franklin biography would almost have to be long to be good: he was into so many things and did so much. (Did you know he discovered the Gulf Stream?)
Einstein, unless a lot of detail was given as to his phisics and math, would be shorter, I would think. Is Isaacson a physicist?
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No, JOAN, Isaacson is Assistant Managing Editor of TIME magazine (as of the printing of this book, 1992) and has written several books. He writes very well!
Wait until you read AMERICA'S PROPHET and meet the Old Colony Club where the old and older men meet.
http://oldcolonyclub.org/
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I read the Einstein bio. Isaacson is very good. This was a different man than the one I thought I knew. Einstein became someone I would like to meet rather than the god-like figure that is the popular conception of him.
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No godlike perception for me. Friends who were at Princeton when he as there told me he was so absentminded, when he would go out, he would forget which house was his. neighbors got tired of him showing up in their houses, thinking they were his. They got together and painted his door red, so he could remember it.
If he hadn't always had a woman devoted to taking care of him, I don't know if he would have survived. But he abandoned the one who took care of him when he was poor and struggling.
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Hmm, is that a person of interest here in non-fiction? I have a book that Einstein himself wrote. Can't remember the title. Do you remember the movie that was made about his granddaughter and him plus his genius cohorts? Quite funny and droll!
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Lest we forget:http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/taps.html
We are getting ready to attend the Vets Day celebration at the elementary school where two of our grandchildren attend. They have added a new feature, coffee and donuts before the ceremonies. Ralph didn't expect to be here this day so its a double celebration for him. He's a Vet and he's alive!! Thanks to many prayers from all of you and a heart pump. Wow!!
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Annie: I have that book, too. He wrote it to explain the theory of relativity to children, and adults gobbled it up. But I don't know the movie. Do you remember it's name?
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The movie was "IQ" with Walter Mathau, Meg Ryan and Tim Robbins and here is a link to a cheap copy of it, should your library not have it.
http://www.amazon.com/I-Q-Tim-Robbins/dp/B0000A2ZO0 (http://www.amazon.com/I-Q-Tim-Robbins/dp/B0000A2ZO0)
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I have heard that if you want to start studying a difficult subject it is
a good idea to begin with a children' book. It gives you a base of some terminology and simple explanations that can be readily grasped. Then you can go on to more sophisticated texts and not be totally bewildered.
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This happened on Wednesday.
You are not going to believe me when I tell you that Cindy Gibbons just called me from the hospital and Ella fell off a curb in a shopping center this afternoon, outside B&N, and broke one ankle and sprained the other. Because she is on Plavix and has much swelling in both ankles, the drs can't operate on her broken ankle for a week. She has to come off the Plavix. She can't walk with a walker either, so, they are talking of sending her to nursing home for the week because Cindy has a really bad back and can't even lift her mom. All this on the day after her 81st birthday. Please keep them both in your prayers.
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Been following Ella's mishap on some of the other sites. For those of you who may not know, ANNIE has been a great help and comfort for both Ella and Cindy. Thank Heaven for friends and family.
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We're missing you Ella, hope you can be back w/ us soon...............thanks for the info Annie...............jean
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For Ella I'll say a prayer with all my heart. Does she have a favorite saint?
What dreadful news. Please, Annie, convey my sympathies and my wishes for a speedy recuperation. And isn't Ella lucky to have such a helpful friend like you.
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Ella))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I am so very sorry about your accident! I hope that you will get some good rest. This is a good time to get some more reading done. I am praying for your successful recovery.
Love, Sheila
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Ella: It's not the same without your witty posts. Hurry, get well, and come back. We miss you.
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Has anyone had an update on Ella's situation? I miss her.
I began a new, non fiction book, called: " The Worst Hard Time". For much of my life, I have heard about the dust bowl. This book is bringing it to life, for me. I also saw a program about it, on either my PBS station, or the History channel. The author, is weaving several stories about the people who survived it. The author also writes that the dust storms came and went for over ten years. I didn't know that.
Sheila
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Serenesheila, I'm watching the PBS "American Experience: Surviving the Dustbowl" program on my cable On Demand programming. What a terrible experience. That books sounds very interesting.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/foodsbooks/christmasdivider9.jpg)
You are invited to a
HOLIDAY OPEN HOUSE (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=978.0) for Book and Food Lovers
December 1 - 20
Guests will be YOU and authors of your favorite books that combine a good story with good tips on food. Do drop in and tell us about your favorite foodies, real and otherwise, be it Rachel Ray or Kate Jacobs or Tyler Florence or Joanne Harris. Who's your favorite cook?
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I read theWorst Hard Time within the last couple of years and found it very interesting. I also watched the PBS program this week and found it very similar to the book. As usual the book gives more information but the TV program did a good job of portraying the problem. Together they give a very good picture of the situation for those of us who were not around at that time. I, for one, had not realized how the entire country was affected i.e. that the dirt from the storms carried all the way to Atlantic Ocean. I had read Grapes of Wrath and was aware of those who had left the area but this book was the first time I read about those who stayed. Since it is non fiction it carries an even greater wallop than Steinbeck's historical fiction. In high school and college classes Worst Hard Time would be a good companion to Grapes of Wrath to give students an overall picture of the situation.
Mary
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SHE'S BAAAAAAACK!!
Ella called me last night and now she is moving to a different place which is brand new, with single rooms, dedicated to therapy for post acute care. Annnnnnnnnd, they have WIFI! So, we have talked her into buying a laptop!! Yaaaaay!
She really sounded good. Like her old self. She had been to see the surgeon who will operate on her right foot early next week and then it will be about 2 months before she can leave the post acute care place but when she does, the dr says she will be walking out the door! "Its a 'murical', Clyde!!"
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Wonderful news, Adoannie! And, of course, she WILL love the laptop!
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Does anyone in here know why the Civil War was fought? What issues caused us to go to war??
I just read a line in our February book, "America's Prophet" and wondered if it was correct.
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I think the causes that were answers on history tests included:
The South:
economics - the tariff laws were hurting the Southern economy
statess rights - the South was upset with what they considered federal government interference in state matters
slavery - which was reflected in economics and states' rights
The North:
to preserve the country
because the North had been attack
and for some slavery issue - but in most instances the Northern soldiers did not consider themselves as fighting for the "Negro"
What did "America's Prophet" say?
Mary
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Here is what About.com has to say about the top five causes of the Civil War.
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm
By the way, when I read The Highland Clearances by John Peebles, he did not have nice things to say about Harriet Beecher Stowe and her book, Uncle Tom's Cabin. He claimed that is was not well researched (that Stowe only spent one weekend in the South), and it was highly inaccurate. It's popularity on an emotional level, however, is undeniable. The book, among other things, helped rally the anti-slavery movement here and abroad. Stowe was quite popular in England.
CubFan, I see you beat me to it.
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Just finished American Empress: Marjorie Merriwether Post, by Nancy Rubin. It would be a good book for a book discussion. She's involved in so many pieces of the history of the first half of the 20th century. And there is the Christian Science aspect, her beautiful houses, her Russian arts collection, (her homes and collectioins can be seen on the web), her marriages, her massive wealth and what she does w/ it, etc.
When i hear of people w/ money spending millions on houses and yatchs and collections i fine them interesting to see and think how beautiful they are, but then my brain goes to " How many people could have been fed, housed or educated with that money?" How many houses does one family need? That's a constant ambivalence in my head. MMP did give money for many projects including the C.W. Post College in Long Island and a hospital in France after WWI for vets, and started a program for young people to be exposed to the Washington Symphony and classical music. But 110 rooms in Mar A Lago? What do you do w/ 110 rooms? And that's just in ONE of her houses, I wondered if she actually went into each of rooms in each of her houses in a year.
Her family relationships also are an interesting example that being wealthy does not necessarily equate to happiness.
Anyway, i found it a book worth reading and enjoyed it and it gave me a lot to think about.......................jean
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JEAN
When i hear of people w/ money spending millions on houses and yachts and collections i fine them interesting to see and think how beautiful are, but then my brain goes to "How many people could have been fed housed or educated with that money?" How many houses does one family need?"
That's pretty much my own reaction, JEAN. I guess we all hope that
we would have done more good with that kind of money.
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Thank you Cubfan and Frybabe for those answers to the Civil War cause. I have downloaded them to my workroom and will probably put them up on our awaiting discussion "America's Prophet" IF that is all right with you.
The book's initial mention of the cause was the State's Rights question. I had always heard also that when the buyers from other countries stopped or were advised to stop buying cotton from the South that that was one of the causes also. And, of course, there were always the Northern manufacturers of dry goods who lost their direct line to cotton when the South seceded, and who signed up with the Union's retaliation.
"Uncle Tom's Cabin" had quite an effect on the war also. Lincoln lightly accused Harriet Beecher Stowe for causing the war. Well researched or not, that book did have a huge impact on decision to go to war.
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I'm reading What it Takes by Richard Ben Cramer, and why I've allowed it to remain unread on my bookshelves this long is a tragic mistake. The book was copywrited in 1989 and concerns the presidential aspirations and campaigns of six political figures: Geo H W Bush, Robert Dole, Richard Gephart, Michael Dukakis, Gary Hart, and Joe Biden. It is a well written, thoroughly researched, page turner. I'm probably one of only a few who haven't read it many yrs ago, but on the off chance you haven't, please give it a try. You won't regret it.
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Welcome, JimNT, I hope you'll share lots of your reading with us.
Cubfan, we spent a lot of time in the "Team of Rivals" discussion on the causes of the Civil War, but I don't think I could have summarized it so neatly. Frybabe, your link filled in some gaps, especially the economic causes, which were crucial. Ann, if you want to comb through our discussion, it's archived here:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=271.0 (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=271.0)
There are some useful links, as well as, on later pages, some questions that point the way.
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Greetings, JimNT. I fear it would be all to easy for me to let a book
slip out of mind once it is shelved. My to-be-read stack remains in a
piile on the counter until read. No telling what my happen to them otherwise. ::)
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
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Just starting Gail Colins' book When Everything Changed, a women's history from the 1960's to the present. Gail was/is a editor/writer for the NYT and is a close friend of a close friend of mine. She included an event where our mutural friend Janet and i met Alice Paul on her 92nd birthday in 1977. GC wrote a previous book on women's history, America's Women: 400 YEars of Dolls, Drudges, Helpmates and Heroines. She uses ordinary women's stories to illustrate what was happening in many areas since 1960. It brings back so many memories - probably similar to what people say about Mad Men i.e. skirts only! wearing girdles even when we weighed 100 lbs, suburbia in the 60's, The Feminine Mystique, women becoming the majority voters in 1960, Jackie Kennedy's transition of the "first lady" job, no women varsity sports in high schools, having to quit job when four months pregnant, and more and more and that's just the first 100 pgs I can't wait to get to the later decades...................................I think it would be a fun book to discuss.............it might motivate me to have a women's gathering at my house after the holidays. ......................jean
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Mabel: I have that book waiting for me at the library. I'm eager to read it and to me it seems like the basis for a good discussion. I'll pick it up on Tuesday; it's supposed to rain buckets today but Tuesday may be better and the library is closed on Mondays.
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It sounds really good.
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Welcome, JimNT, and thank you for the recommendation of "WHAT IT TAKES." It sounds like a very informative and interesting book.
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I've been "reading along" in Salt by Kurlansky for about 2 months. It's one of those books you can read a bit and put down for something else and then come back to it. I should have realized, but didn't have in my conscious mind how important salt has been to human beings over the centuries. Of COURSE our bodies have to have it and i never tho't about whether every person, every where would have access to it. I was well aware of the need to have it to preserve food and i knew that it was valued and bartered.
The variety of ways that have been used to extract salt from the earth are very interesting and did you know that any European town whose name ends in "wich" was probably a salt producing town?
I had tried to read his book Cod, but i didn't get all the way thru it. A little of it was more than enough, but Salt is more interesting, to me...............jean
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I'm a new poster, but a longtime evesdropper. There are so many different kinds of non-fiction.
I've just finished Lords of Finance by Ahmed, which is the story of the various economies and the central bankers of England, France, Germany, and the US following WW1 leading up to the turmoil of the late 20's. He writes so clearly and concisely he had even me understanding Keynes' economic theories. This is a fairly new book, and of course, he drew parallels to today's problems. Definitely recommend the book to anyone interested in this subject.
In contrast, and also in the non-fiction category, I've recently read Julia Child's My Life in France in which she describes her experiences in France beginning in 1948. One interesting tidbit was that Hemingway's first wife, Hadley, was one of her friends. According to Julia, the Hemingway's son was a member of the OSS during WW2 (I think they called him Mr. Bumby or something like that for a nickname) and was a WW2 hero, aiding American GI's who went down behind enemy lines to safety.
I couldn't recommend this book unless you want to know in great detail what Julia had for lunch 50 or 60 years ago. I know I can't remember what I had for lunch last week. LOL.
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I often wonder about the descendants of famous names in history and what are they doing now? Are there descendants of Lincoln? What are the Hemmingway progeny doing besides acting? How about the Vanderbilts - of course there's Anderson Cooper - the Fords, the Roosevelts, the Stowes, did Frederick Douglas have children, now great-grandchildren? ..............................etc, etc, ..................jean
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One of the premier foodies writing about France in her early years is M F K Fisher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._F._K._Fisher
I was reading her when Julia Child was a new TV personality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._F._K._Fisher
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Eating-M-F-Fisher/dp/0020322208
While she talks about recipes she is talking about living and eating and loving.
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The Julia Child book sounds good-- others have told me they liked it. Hers was an interesting story.
The book on the economy sounds good, too. I have heard that the banks are still doing what they were doing before, just slightly restrained by the new restrictions. I wish I understood more about it.
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Mabel I read Salt a few years ago. I don't think the author left a salt grain unsifted. Fascinating. Everything you ever wanted to know about salt and lot more. I was especially interested in the different mineral impurities and how people used the different salts for medicine, etc., the bit about Avery Island and the McIlhennys, and salt mines being of strategic importance during the Civil War.
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Our f2f group at the senior center has been engrossed in "Outliers" by Gladwell. I became so engrossed in his ideas that I have read it twice. Fascinating! Now, I am finally interested in reading his book, "Blink".
Evergreen, what a nice user name! So good to have you join us.
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Thanks for the 'wich' bit, JEAN. I love bits of trivia. I recently saw a
bit on TV..I think it was actually an ad.....that explained that salt is
found in many different colors, depending on where it is found. I had no
idea. Green salt, pink salt, orange salt, etc., etc. I wonder if they are
all edible, and if the flavor is affected. Does your book comment on that?
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Hey, I just saw that book Salt yesterday in a book store that I spent the afternoon in. It looked very interesting.
Mabel, do you think we might find any answer to that in S of C? Posted on: November 23, 2009, 02:05:35 PMPosted by: mabel1015j
I often wonder about the descendants of famous names in history and what are they doing now?
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Annie, what is Outliers about, pray tell!
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I'm intrigued by Outliers too. I saw Gladwell discuss his book with Charlie Rose one evening, and one of the thoughts was that people are not necessarily born gifted in one area or another. If someone spends huge chunks of his life practicing the piano, or working on gymnastics, etc. he will excell in that area. Wonder how he'd apply that to Mozart.
I'm going to add his book to my list............
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Well, EVERGREEN, apparently he did say "not necessarily". I'm
sure lifelong practice and development of skills will go far, tho' not to
the point of genius, IMO
If you are interested in descendents of the famous, you might find this link interesting.
http://photography-thedarkart.blogspot.com/2009/05/descendants.html
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"Outlier:The Story of Success:" is about one man's putting together many statistics of his own selection to point out why some people make it to the top and some do not. His premise about practicing 10,000 hours will make you an Ace in your sphere of knowledge is just his conclusion. He makes a lot of sense sometimes and sometimes, IMHO, he's really reaching far. But the book is fascinating and well worth the read.
I now have Gladwell's "'Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking" where "he revolutionizes the way we understand the world within." Book cover.
His first book was "Tipping Point" where Gladwell "redefined how we understand the world around us."Book cover.
Our f2f group read "Salt" quite a while ago and really enjoyed it.
Mabel asks an interesting question about descendents of famous people. One could make a hobby of 'googling' them. And Babi found a link to that info. I must go see it. ::)
Happy Thanksgiving to all!! :D
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Babi,
That link is really fascinating.
Mabel, don't miss it!
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Thank you Babi for that site and Harold for encouraging me to check it out. I looked at it briefly and will look at it in-depth after tomorrow. Today is cleaning day and tomrrow is cooking and eating day........yum, yum, yum........Thanksgiving is my favorite day of the year and my favorite foods come to my table.
I'm very thankful for all who orginated the idea of, first, SeniorNet, and now, SeniorLearn and Seniors and Friends. I have had so many good moments and motivations from all the suggestions of all of you for reading, eating, movies, music, seeing your pictures, and just plain new information. I'm an addictive learner and all of these sites have fed my addiction. :-* :-* :-* to all the originators and all of you contributors. I'm thankful that you are here everyday.........................jean
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I will second that, Jean. Hope your Thanksgiving is a very successful feast.
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What a wonderful tribute to SeniorLearn Mabel. We are all fortunate to have this site.
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Has anyone read What it Takes by Richard Ben Cramer? This book traces the lives and presidential campaigns of six political aspirants; G H W Bush, R Gephart, M Dukakis, R Dole, G Hart and J Biden. It's a bit dated, copywritten 1989, and why I allowed it to remain on my bookshelves unread these many years is an inexplicable mystery. I'm not even sure why I bought it. It qualifies as a tome and is a very readable page turner. In my opinion, it confirms the notion that there is, in fact, a special class of people who recognize their purpose early on and shape their lives toward accomplishing this purpose. This will sound naive to many, that no such class exists or everyone has known this from birth. I would dearly love to hear some comments on either the book or the idea of "class".
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JimNT,
Your book sort of sounds like the one I recommended earlier. Its entitled "Outliers" by Gladwell. Have you read it yet? The author confirms your book plus much more. It is non-fiction.
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No, I haven't read Outliers but thanks you for the info. Is it of recent vintage?
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Oh yes, JimNT, it is newly published and he has two others: "Blink" How we think without thinking and another "Tipping Point" which is about "How We Think About the World Around Us". My f2f group has read and liked "Blink" and I have a friend who has also read and liked "Tipping Point". Since I use the library a lot, I was glad to find that they have all three books. Hope you find it to your liking.
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I read Tipping POint, must look for the other two and What It Takes.............ooooohhhh, the TBR list is much tooooooo long and the holidays are upon us with all the activity they entail.............Maybe i should hope for a really bad winter when i can only stay inside and read! ....................jean
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Only if you can get your groceries delivered, JEAN. :-\
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When I was unexpectedly carless for a few days I had groceries delivered. There were two negatives: first, it cost $12 extra and two, it was so easy to impulse shop that I bought nonessentials, not only that but I'd order two of them! It is a treat to have the van pull up and deliver things to your door.
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Mrssherlock,
I love your story about having your groceries delivered. Just too funny! :D :D
Jean
I was obsessed with "Outliers" and read it twice just to make sure that I understood the author. The guy spins a great yarn, doesn't he?? I can't wait to read "Blink".
After I get done with my first run-thru of "America's Prophet".There is a great deal of meaningful history in that book. Lots of things that I was unaware of that pertain to American history. Two of the chapters had me all misty eyed. Its an eye opener too.
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I guess I'm going to have to take a look at Gladwell. Can't afford to
pass up a guy to can 'spin a great yarn'. :)
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Well, maybe not a yarn but a thought provoking idea, Babi. Try it, you might like it. It is intriguing. ;)
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AdoAnnie: Thanks for the response and book recs. I've read The Tipping Point and will look into the other recs. Incidentally, my college friend from the early sixties, William V. Muse, recently published his book titled The Seventh Muse about his growing up in Alabama and Mississippi. I bought a copy and sent it to him for his autograph which he returned a couple days ago. Haven't read it yet, however, as I'm deeply engrossed in What it Takes but I was pleased that Amazon lists it for sale. Among other accomplishments, Bill was President of Auburn Univ, Dean of Bus School at Texas A&M, etcetra. You might access Amazon and read his sole review. Well, it's beginning to rain as a cold front is moving in. Perfect for resuming my tome.
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HELLO ALL! Am in rehab for awhile after a surgery, after a fall. And very new to a laptop but I love it all so much that I will learn!
I echo what JEAN said above about being thankful for this site, a place to discuss books and ideas with friends who love the same! It fills the hours pleasurably.
Am trying to read - slowly as I am doing everything these days! The book -Eiffel's Tower, by Jill Jonnes, looks very good, historic about the tower and the Paris Exposition of 1888, I think!
Ella-in RehaB (later, love reading your post)
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Ella, delighted to see you back on your laptop. Good luck with your rehab!
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Hi Ella - welcome back to the non-fiction world..............jean
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Ella, how good to hear from you. Your post sounds like you're in good spirits. And why not. With a new laptop, and your books around you, you could make your rehab a memorable time for yourself and for us with many posts on what you're reading.
Jim, I'm looking around for a copy of WHAT IT TAKES. I'm trying to imagine why you consider it a 'tragic mistake' (post 659), not having read it 20 years ago. How could it have made a difference in your life? Might you have been posting to us from the oval office? Or someone you helped put there?
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Ella, it warms my heart to see you back with us! I am sorry you took a fall. I hope that your recovery goes smoothly. I have missed you. Please take good care of yourself.
Love, Sheila
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Ella: I knew nothing could keep you down for long. Welcome back.
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No, Ella. I've overstated my dissappointment in my overlooking such a readable book about some interesting politicians. The book is not a literary giant; simply, a gossipy fun read about some newsmakers I thought I knew.
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(http://www.christmasgifts.com/clipart/christmasholly7.jpg)
| We're looking forward to seeing you at the
Holiday Open House (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?board=76.0)
December 1 - 20
|
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THANK YOU ALL FOR THE WELCOME BACK!
This wondrous little computer is hard to handle at times. It's a learning process.
I keep doing things wrong, so..................... I will post this before I lose it.
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I think we should all suggest a book about our political climate, recent presidents, and how the Internet is impacting it all.
How the Internet is influencing our lives and the WORLD!
Don't you think the Internet has changed our lives?
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Gustave Eiffel was a fascinating fellow and the book about his Tower amazing I highly recommend it. I was in Paris for just one day several years ago (with our own Ginny) and I was disappointed in my reaction to this very famous landmark. I had supposed I would be in such awe, but................
later, ella
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Welcome back, Ella!
I've put Eiffel's book about the tower on my TBR list. We were really impressed when we drove by by the tower at night when it was beautifully lit with blazing lights. Amazing sight! I can still picture it.
I liked Southern France best, especiall Provence. We spent a week in Aix and loved it. Drove all over looking at everything. The people there were so nice. I'd go back there in a minute.
Marj
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Am anxious to read those books by Gladwell. I've been reading a lot of fiction (mysteries) and am ready for something different. Don't post often but I enjoy this forum!
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someone tell me how you pronouce Aix................jean
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Bellmere,
Was it you in here looking for Tracy Kidder titles?? I have read three of his books and enjoyed each of them. His first big one was entitled "The Soul of a New Machine" and then "House" and then "Hometown" plus I own two more which await me in my TBR pile. One is "Among School Children".
Another book your friend might enjoy is "The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage" by Clifford Stoll. Captivating!!
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I love "The Cuckoo's Egg"! All the technology it describes is now outdated, but it's still a fascinating real-life detective story.
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Jean, I believe its pronounced eks.
Marj
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I too read "The Cuckoo's Egg" some years ago and remember that I was fascinated.
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Marifay,
EKS?? What does that mean?? Never heard, even the author, pronounce EGGS as EKS??
Yes, the two computer oriented books are outdated but a kick to read. House is about building your own house or doing your own contracting. And Hometown is just what the title says.
I thought of another one as I went to sleep last night but it escapes me now.
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Not 'eggs', ANNIE. MARJ was answering Jean's question about the
pronunciation of 'Aix'. ::)
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HAHAHAHA! I must pay better attention!![/size][/color]
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ELLA In reply to your question: Yes, the internet has totally changed how I spend my time. And it continues to change.
Yesterday, I visited a friend who can now download the books on his Kindle to his television screen, and he reads the books in huge letters on his television. Harumphhh. I didn't even know we could do this. His computer is hooked up to his TV screen, so he can do everything on his TV that he does on his computer........e-mail, reading newspapers and magazines, surfing.
Just about the time I think I'm getting up to date, they throw in some new technology! LOL
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I am reading The First Tycoon: the epic life of Cornelius Vanderbilt by T. J. Stiles. It recently won one the the National Book awards.
Am enjoying it very much. Good writing. Heavily footnoted.......really heavily footnoted (sigh).
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Sigh is right. I vary a lot in how much I feel compelled to read footnotes. For one thing, they're always in tiny print. Sigh.
But I don't trust a book that doesn't have a lot of footnotes. Can't win for losing.
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C Vamderbilt was an interesting - some might say, nasty/mean - fellow, wasn't he? ...........probably two decades ago i read a hefty book that was about all the Vanderbilts, can't remember who wrote. The new one probably has even better info in it......................jean
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Jean It seems CV was a man of his times. Many were mean/nasty, and NY harbor was a wild and wooly place.
One sidenote..some monopolies were legal (steam/paddleboat ferries), and it was one of CV's goals to break the monopoly. And some of them used to pay CV not to compete with them. Interesting way to increase his income.
JoanK I agree with your comments on footnotes. But (and don't tell anyone) I'm not reading all of them anymore. Otherwise, I'll never get through this 700+ page book.
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Talk about a mean/nasty man - The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York - biography by Robert Caro. After 600 pages I jumped to the final 100 of the 1200+ to see him removed from power.
Each January I start 3 or 4 nonfiction books that I want to read that lend themselves to being read and thought about in small doses. I place them where I can pick them up and read them bit by bit over the year (i.e. kitchen table, bathroom, car etc) and then after Thanksgiving I do a major push to finish each one so I can start a new set January 1. This year I read 600 pages of the Moses bio and have decided I had enough of his meanness. I understand what he did for and to New York City. I also just finished the Frances Perkins bio, and will finish The American Sphinx (Thomas Jefferson). I also read several other non fiction this year but they were more the "I can't put them down" type.
Now, I'm making my selections for next year from my TBR shelves.
Too many books - too little time.
Mary
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Cubfan, I'd love to know what you pick for this year. We read the Frances Perkins with Ella's excellent leadership, and I bet you liked it.
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When I was in the library yesterday looking for audio books for Ella, I almost chose a long one about Jay Gould who is said to have been the meanest of them all and to have been the cause of the 1869 bank failure and depression. But instead I got one that I know she didn't get to read before her accident. "The Man Who Loved China". That also looks quite good.
There is a new book out but not in our library, "In The Shadow of My Father" by Chris Welles/????? who is Orson Welles daughter. Guess I will have to look in our other library system to see if they have it. I listened to an interview of her last week and the book sounds worth a looksee.
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I'm reading - as one of those pick-up-put-down books - Gail Collins "When Everything Changed." A history of women since 1960, altho she goes back a little further than '60 to give background. I've just read chapter six which is about the women in the civil rights movement. She does a lovely job of telling the real story of how the women were often more activist then the men whose names we know. I was aware that besides Rosa Parks' obvious refusal to give up her seat in Montgomery that there was a whole cadre of women who mobilized the boycott by immediately running off 35,000 flyers (imagine how blue their hands were from mimeo graph ink!...........remember those days?) and distributing them to schools for the students to take to their parents the next day............wasn't that a smart organizing technique? What could have been a faster way to get out the word. Collins gives us a strong picture of the patriarchal actions of the men, particularly the male ministers. Rosa Parks was not allowed to speak at the mtg encouraging the boycotters......she was told she "had said enough." Only one woman was one the committee to organize the March on WAshington and only Josephine Baker was given a few minutes to speak. The men said "well, Marian Anderson is singing!"
What i didn't know was how many women in the southern states risked their lives and properties to house young people who came to register people to vote, housed people who had lost their lands, registered to vote themselves, had their homes attacked, etc. It's an inspiring chapter. I know there is a book titled Freedom's Dgts, but i can't remember the author..........i'll look for it...................jean
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Thank you, mabel1015j, for letting us know about that interesting book you're reading about the recent history of women. I'll look for WHEN EVERYTHING CHANGED in my public library.
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Good ideas for books to read. Plenty on my shelf here in the Rehab Center at the moment, but learning this llittle laptop takes time and I have precious minutes between the tough therapy for my broken ankle and all else one is required to do.
I am still in Eiffel's Tower, which has now been built in 1888 in Paris - the world's tallest building. Before that, the Washington Monument was the tallest; however it took 40 years to build whereas the Eiffel took two. Fasciinating characters exhibited at the fair and the book goes into their lives - Gauguin, the Van Goughs, Whistler, Edison, and many more. Unbelievable work on the Tower and there are great pictures. Am enjoying it when I can read.
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Can't wait to put "When Everything Changed" on my TBR shelf. Sound fascinating, Mabel.
And about your tag and women holding up half the sky?? Sometimes we hold up the whole sky while the men debate their responsibilities. ;) ;)
We visited Ella yesterday and took her some audio books and paperbacks. Hope she finds something there to enjoy! She has a nice single room but says the outside world doesn't exist for most who are there. So, we will visit her often and take her the chatty news from 'Downtown Gahanna" :D
She seems to be doing well but knows this will take some time and lots of excercise and other therapies.
I am getting ready to read "Blink" by Gladwell.
Also, I off to Cincy to visit with my sister, Mary, for the weekend. She will be coming from Indianapolis and me from Columbus. We always enjoy our brief respites together.
Have a great weekend!!
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"Rosa Parks was not allowed to speak at the mtg encouraging the boycotters......she was told she "had said enough."
GRRR! Doesn't that just make you want to smack someone's smug, patronizing face, JEAN? I take satisfaction in knowing that Rosa Parks is still honored, and nobody knows who that guy was.
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AMEN, Babi.
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OK, it's not Non-Fiction, but you might enjoy this:
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/kim/kimcvrsm.jpg) |
Coming Soon...KIM by Kipling ~ our January Book Club Online.
Let us know you'll be joining us in our discussion (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=997.msg49658#msg49658). |
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In preparation for leading "Kim" I got a book that was mentioned on SeniorNet a few years ago: Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game--The Struggle for Empire in Central Asia". It describes the British efforts to stave off Russia from the boundary of India. Some of the spy work going on then is part of the story of "Kim". SeniorNetters liked it; I'll report on it here after I read it.
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PAT, can you give us a little background on the book discussion of KIM? Russia, India, G.Britain in a struggle? I can probably go to a site to find some information myself. I know India was part of the British Empire and only got their independence after WWII.
How and when did India become a colony of G.Britain? What year about? I always think some background helps to understand a novel, don't you?
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PatH, let me know how you liked Hopkirk's book. I still have it in one of my TBR piles (for at least 5 months). Maybe I will dig into it before we start on Kim. Good suggestion.
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Regarding another read concerning "Kim", I just finished "The Game" by Laurie King and it also pertains to India's occupation by GB plus Sherlock Homes search for Kim as an adult. Yes, its fiction, but a fun read with lots of history concerning Russia, India and GB. King does stick to truth when it comes to history but adds the hero's story to enhance the reading of history.
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I'll be watching for "The Game", ANNIE. I do like Laurie King, and I'm
interested in finding out what sort of future she imagined for Kim.
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Last night I watched an interview on C-Span between Brian Lamb and Gladwell (author of Tipping Point, Blink, Outliers, and one other which I can't recall). Brian Lamb's program is called "Q & A" and is on every Sunday night. It was an interesting interview. Gladwell writes for the New York Magazine and said it might be years before he writes another book--maybe never. Depends entirely on whether he wants/needs to try answering a particular idea/question relating to humans and our environment. I must get to the library and check out one of his books.
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Jean,
Our f2f group was informed about Gladwell's interview with Rose. His newest book is titled, "What the Dog Saw" and its on the NYT best seller list along with "Outliers". I will be requesting that new book.
Everyone in our group, except Ella who is in hospital, was very entertained by "Outliers". Now we have been handed the book, "The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society" by Mary Ann Shaffer and Annie Barrows. Were you in on the discussion that in here? The book was historical fiction and there were a lot of online pictures and links about the island where it is set. You might enjoy it. It should be in the Archives.
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I've put myself in a bind! While "just returning" books to the library yesterday, i glanced at the new book biographies - BIG mistake. I picked up Craig Fergueson's memoir American on Purpose - i just love CF - and I saw a bio about a woman i hadn't heard about before, Mary Austin....................do any of you from the West know of her? She was a writer in the early half of the 20th century, writing a lot about the West and Southwest. She apparently knew ALL the progressives of the time........having .lived in the artists' colony at Carmel and in Paris, at various times. I had not know of her, but she sounds interesting............................Since they are "new books" to the library, i only have 2 weeks to read them! Plus, i'm working on knitting a Christmas wall-hanging and I have Gail Collins' women's history book to read and to get back to my friend................Life is just a bowl of cheeries! and books and knitting! and a grandson is coming tomorrow afternoon, so most of that time will be occupied..........arrrgghhh - when it rains it pours..............O.K. that's enough cliches - on to reading and knitting......................jean
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You are a busy lady, Jean. I may have something about Jane Austin in my book about women writers in the West. I will look today oooooooooor tomorrow!
Knit away, I can hear the needles clicking!
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Bear in mind, JEAN....IF it's in the library, you don't have to check
it out right now. It will still be there after the Christmas rush is
over, and January is always a good month to spend indoors reading.
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Ahhhh, common sense prevails, right??
Jean,
I didn't find your author in my book but maybe you would enjoy it anyway.
Titled "The Women Who Made The West" by the the Western Writers of America, its a pleasure to read. In it are short bios of women that most of us have never heard of.
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Annie: That was Mary Austin, not Jane. Don't know if that makes a difference.
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Yeah, I know, Joan, but I checked on both. Neither was in the book that I recommended to Jean. Thanks for your concern.
How's Torrance doing without my bright and cheerful self??
I did love the weather there.
Its 21 degrees out right now at 6:05pm and promises are that it will be single digit tomorrow. Brrrrrr!
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Torrance is doing great! But there's a little hole, somewhere on Sepulveda with a sign "Annie was here!"
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Hohoho! That must be the pothole that talks on TV for an ad of something or other. I think she is funny. Have you seen her??
I forgot to let you all know that Ella's dr may send her home for awhile until her ankle is ready for weight on it and then he will re-admit her. Her sister, Jeannie, will come from MA to be with her. I think the dr decides on the 14th or the 21st of Dec.
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Ahh Babi, why didn't i think of that!?! :P I'm so impulsive sometimes.....especially at the LIBRARY.......as i've told you all many times before............it's an addiction..........I probably will be able to renew the Austin book, i'm sure not MANY people will be on a waiting list for it :D. The Ferguson book i am scurrying thru. It is pretty good, as w/ any good author who writes their own book, i can hear his voice as i read. The middle section did get a little monotonous as he relayed over and over again how many beers/scotch/cocaine he had before going on stage, or how it effected him. But of course he's making his point - he was an alcoholic and drug addict and it controlled him.................i've just gotten to the place where he has come out of rehab........should get more interesting now...........jean
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hello. I read mostly fiction, but sometimes it is based upon what is really happening in the world and some of that reads like a novel. I've read a couple of the financial mess books that are like that one, House of Cards, and the other which I'm still picking at FOOLS GOLD. and then there is one on ROBATICS called WIRED FOR WAR which addresses the developement of robots especially in the military. but it's not the kind of thing I see here.
seeya all later
claire
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Yes, we need to remember that the library has often got many copies and can get to us pretty quick, Jean. I had to return America's Prophet, both my copy and Ella's but I am back on the request list so I hope to see it again in January.
ClaireHave you read any of the political books or opinion books that the talking heads are alway advertising?? I can't remember any titles at this time as I haven't had my morning tea. But there look to be a plethora of them available.
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JEAN, WHAT A NICE BIND TO BE IN
Ann brought me a number of audio books to listen to and am enjoying the MAN WHO LOVED CHINA by Simon Winchester. But how I miss my weekly visit to the library.
I just might have to resort to an online bookseller and choose a good biography. I finished the one about Eiffel of the Eiffel Tower. He was in a terrible scandal before he died and almost was jailed but managed to eventually out live most of the great inventors and exhibitors of the Paris Exposition. It was a good book.
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ANN mentioned the pothole ad on TV, I think it's so funny, I love those voices. I've watched more TV in this rehab facility than I have watched for 10 years at home. MERCY!
I don't have any favorites except the news, I skip around; but they don't have BookTV on weekends, darn!
Love reading your posts - keep posting.
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Gee, Ella - in our system, BookTV is on ONLY on weekends. I wish it were during the week. :D
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Same here Mary.....booktv only on week-ends..............
HI ELLA...........GLAD TO SEE YOU POSTING AGAIN..... How are you feeling?
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Better every day, JEAN. Thanks for asking. It's my darn foot that is broken and taking time to heal. Time, time.....................
My daughter went to the Libray and brought some books; among them a biography of Bonnie and Clyde. Goodness, the poverty of his home llife, which certainly reinforces the fact that poverty breeds crime.
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Since I rarely read anything other than fiction I drop in here on occasion to see what's what and to share when I find something I like which has Dewey Decimal Number on the spine instead of the author's surname. Mostly it is science or technology. The one I'm reading now, The Cuckoo's Egg (by Cliff Stoll), is a who dunnit about the early days of the internet and computer hacking, the bad kind, the breading and entering hacking, not the creative hacking where someone devises a new use for old software. Cliff is an astronomer at Lawrence Berkeley Lab who is transfered to the computer department when his grant runs out. He's handed problem the first day: there is an unidentified charge of 75 cents and he must track it down to its source to balance the books. He tries to track this glitch and the quest leaves him unsatisfied as he learns that someone is able to bypass what we now call firewalls and traipse through the files of computer systems such as NSA, CIA, White Sands Missile Range, etc., etc. This takes place in historical times, 1985, when the internet had maybe 100,000 users. Although there's lots of explanations about computer systems on the administrator level, I find myself captivated. I may not understand what he's writing but he makes it interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg_(book)
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I enjoyed The Cuckoo's Egg too, mrssherlock. Thanks for mentioning it.
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Yes, "The Cuckoo's Egg" was a delight and eye opener to read. I wonder if Stoll has another book out?
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I have "The Cuckoo's Egg" and have read it several times. I have also seen the TV program based on it (done by PBS, I think). Cliff is as wacky and charming on TV as in the book.
In the book, he talks about the time a college computer-hacker accidently shut down allmost all computer systems. I remember it well -- I was working on one of the systems that got shut down.
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There are three books reserved at my Library: one about Bernie Madoff (need I tell anyone who he is?); a biography of Ayn Rand by Ann C. Heller (featured in my paper); and a Clarence Darrow book, which my sister wants to read. As I am housebound and in a wheelchair for the time being, I am hoping that the Library will get them to my branch for pickup on Saturday as a home health aide is coming then to help us (my sister who is staying with me until I can walk). Neither my 84 year old sister or myself ever expected to be in this position or this age, for that matter. Life can be very interesting, can it not?
So what are you reading over the holidays? DO TELL!
AND HAVE A WONDERFUL NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
Any New Year's resolutions floating around? Any that you expect to keep?
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in parallel with reading Kipling's Kim which we will begin discussing tomorrow, I've been reading about the Great Game, the confrontation between Russia and Britain over the frontier which includes Afghanistan, Tibet, the Punjab. Alternating between two books, Hopkirk's The Great Game and Maer's Tournament of Shadows. As I'm reading I'm wondering what they study in the war college and West Point about Afghanistan. While there is incredible prejudice on the part of the Brits, Afghan politics is like a Hydra, multiplied many time over.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I have been on the library list FOREVER for Shanghai Girls and was notified today that my name
has made it to the top. I will pick it up after New Years Day. Oops.just realized this might have
been put in Fiction. Sorry-----
JOY
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I am also reading Hopkirk's The Great Game and finding it quite interesting.
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I got a copy of You Have Seen Their Faces from our library. It's an old book, practically falling apart. My children have found it interesting to look at - they were born long after the 60's Civil Rights movement, so the comments really caught their attention.
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ELLA: glad you're up to reading again. Keep us up to date on how your rehab is going.
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JACKIE, can you tell us a little about Britain's prejudice against Afghanistan, that you mentioned in a prior post. I am very ignorant of the history of that country other than Russia lost a war there. What was Russia attempting to do? Colonize the country, what? And isn't it amazing that those guerillas from the mountains could fight a powerful enemy such as Russia and win? What did we learn from that?
Your question about what West Point students are learning is a good one.
Several of you have mentioned THE GREAT GAME. I am sorry I couldn't get the book and read it before the discussion of KIM, and even sorrier that I was in rehab as the result of a broken ankle and surgery, OH, DEAR!
But the discussion of KIM starts today, so I will see some of you there, ALL OF YOU THERE!
'
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Ella: Mayer, in Tournament of Shadows, points out that Britain's possession of India meant that there was a long, precarious supply chain of men and materials to maintain. Russia's Tsars had been expanding for the preceding fourcenturies at a pace of 55 miles per day or 20,000 miles per year. (Emphasis mine.) Literally a game of King of the Hill whose playing field was the majestic Himalayas. It doesn't take much imagination to understand the attitude of the Raj towards their obviously (in their eyes) inferior lackeys. This polyglot society had developed subtle protocols of interaction that completely confounded the arrogant and unaware White Men. There were enough attrocities on each side in the conflicts which erupted to keep the flames fanned. Reading Hopkirk's The Great Game and Mayer in tandem can be emotionally draining but at the same time it is fascinating and compelling. These are the major elements and completely overshadow the onset of iorganized intelligence gathering which is the theme of Kim but it helps me to understand the political and geographic context before focusing on the human components.
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JACKIE: that's so interesting. Could you post it in "Kim"?
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I don't know a great deal about Afghanistan, ELLA, but I do know the
Afghans have a reputation as extremely fierce fighters. They have been
embroiled in fighting for one reason or another for generations, and boys
begin training as warriors at a very young age.
Add to that the fact that Afghanistan is an exremely mountainous country and the Afghans know it intimately. There is no space for the
conventional field battles; guerrilla warfare predominates. Invasion there
is not a really good idea.
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Invasion there is not a really good idea.
And yet,Babi, there is always some idiotic bunch or another that does.
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I believe that I mentioned this earlier but since Ella wasn't here, I will reiterate. The title, "The Game" by Laurie King takes place in the time of Kim and then later. Its fictional and its detective is Sherlock Holmes but Kim is there and all of the policital and warring parties. Very good book with much historical involved there plus a nice mystery inside. It gives a good background on Kim and on the warring parties plus their fears of each other.
Look at "A Thousand Splendid Suns" which covers not only the Russian occupation of Afghanistan but tells much about the mindset of the Afghanistans concerning being occupied year after year after year. Then add to the mix, the Muslimness! Mind boggling! The women accept abuse as though that's just the way it is!
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Alas, FRYBABE, so true! :(
Thanks for the mention of the Laurie King book, ANNIE. I like that series,
and it would be interesting to read it in conjunction with the Kim discussion. (Have to keep them separated mentally, tho'. :-\) Now
to see if my library has it.
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Sounds like a book I would enjoy, ANN, bring it over when you can. AS you know, I can't get to the library.
there is always some idiotic bunch or another that does. - we hear you!!!
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GOSH, it's been a long time since anyone posted a book here. I KNOW SOME OF YOU ARE READING SOMETHING GOOD, PLEASE LET US KNOW!
My book club at our senior center is reading THE MEASURE OF A MAN by Sidney Poitier.
Has anyone read it? I would love another opinion.
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Hey, Ella. I will send you a comment on the book as soon as I take a quick perusal.
Ralph and I have just read "Fly By Wire" by Wm Langewiesche. Its a super little book about the landing on the Hudson by Sully and his crew. Very good book. This author has tackled many other flying topics. We are going to see how they read later at the library.
The author's father was also a good writer and he was well known for his books about flying. One of his first was about learning how to fly and was entitled "Stick & Rudder" which came out in 1944. Its in its 44th printing as of this year. We have a copy of it. Our grandson has it and I want to see when it was published. Maybe its one of the first. Ralph's Dad was on of the first pilots in Ohio and he purchased the book.
Ralph also finished "Highest Duty" which is also about Sullenberger and how he feels that he grew up to land that plane on the Hudson. Interesting story!!
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This one is a novel about a real person, by the author of The Girl with the Pearl Earring. Tracy Chevalier takes us back to the early 19th century when Mary Anning discovers the fossils of Remarkable Creatures in the cliffs near her home on the English Coast. This is many years in advance of Darwin's cruise on the Beagle, let alone his publication of The Origin of the Species. Anning's discoveries astound scientists. Read more about her here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anning
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JACKIE: did I understand that the woman was eal, but this is a fictionalized account? Obviously, the girl with the pearl earring was real, too, although I don't remember if we know anything about her. I was disappointed in Earring. but this one sounds very interesting.
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ELLA, I have wanted to read "The Measure of a Man", but it was published
years ago and my library doesn't have it. I may have to go on-line into
used books and buy it. What do you say? Is it worth adding to my permanent library?
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Babi,
"The Measure of a Man" is a 2000 book. Not so long ago. Ella and I are discussing whether its worth one's time as Ella says, "its very preachy." And contains no new info concerning the life of Poitier and what he saw growing up. We all saw it or heard it.
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Joan: Yes, it is a novel about real people and real events. Since I eagerly watch and read any news about paleontology, this one is quite enticing. Also, women who follow their own interests, in spite of the expectations of their peers, attract my interest.
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Recently finished From Rage to Reason:my life in two Americas by Janet Langhart Cohen. If you live in the Chicago/Boston/NY areas, you may remember her on tv in the 60/70/80's. I heard of her when her husband Bill Cohen became Sec of Defense under Bill Clinton. They were the first prominent interracial couple in the country other than performers.
For those of you who have read "The Help," this gives a real person account of about the same time. Even tho Janet grew up in Indiana, she had some of the same experiences as the "maids" in The Help. But it's also interesting because of the people she encountered thruout her life: MLKing, Marian Andersen, Muhummad Ali, Colin Powell, HIllary Clinton, etc. A driven, independent woman. ................jean
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Oh, how nice it is to come in here and read suggestions about books and what you thought of them.
As I can't get to a library at the present time, I need suggestions. On BookTV today, interestingly, there was an hour program on two new books out concerning FDR. The subject of his administration and the New Deal is an unending subject for authors. One of the books, by Adam Cohen, entitled NOTHING TO FEAR: HIS INNER CIRCLE, is about 5 of his close advisors, three of whom stuck by him until the end.
One of them was FRANCES PERKINS, and I could swear the author took his material about the woman from Kirsten Downey's book which we discussed here on SeniorLearn not too long ago.
The author must have written quite a bit about her accomplishments which, of course, included the minimum wage, unemployment compensation, social security, etc. as he mentioned her in the course of the conversation for quite a long time.
The other book by Julie Fenster concerns Louis Howe and is titled FDR'S SHADOW. Anyone familiar with FDR would know of this man who is directly responsible for FDR's presidency. He wrote a few of his speeches and is the author of the line "We Have nothing to fear but fear itself." I didn't know that, never thought of the author of the line actually.
Keep your suggestions coming. I have reserved a number of books at the library which my home health aide will pick up for me next week.
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We all saw it or heard it.
Actually, ANNIE, since I've never been one to consider a celebrity's
private life any of my business, I know virtually nothing about Poitier
other than that he is an excellent actor and has the reputation of a fine
man.
I've never really understood the interest in who marries whom, or is
sleeping with, or has checked into rehab. If the papparazzi had to depend on my interest, they'd all have to find other work. :P
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Babi: If only that could come true. When I'm standi ng in the checkout line and see the covers of the tabloids I feel dirty and then shamed that I stooped to looking.
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I'm with you Babi.
MrsSherlock, in all the years I've stood in line at the checkout, I don't believe I have ever actually seen anyone buy a tabloid.
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FRYBABE: "in all the years I've stood in line at the checkout, I don't believe I have ever actually seen anyone buy a tabloid." good point. Someone must buy them, or they wouldn't still be around. Perhaps people sneak in at odd deserted hours so their neighbors won't see them buying. Maybe there are even "Tabloids Anonomous" groups out there, as people fight to control this habit. Or maybe their are "friends of tabloids" groups, where people meet and compare the latest juicy bits. Or maybe it's a solitary sin, like solitary drunkenness. But somewhere, somehow, people must be reading them.
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What was it T barnum said about the ibtelligence of the Americans?
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To be fair to Poitier's book, and to try to explain what Ann meant by "we all saw and heard it" the actor writes of the segregated south and his experiences in his youth, the Civil Rights Movement, etc. etc. Nothing that one of a certain age has not "heard or seen."
As most of us know, he is credited with "breaking the color barrier" when he won an Oscar for his role in the film LILLIES OF THE FIELD in 1963. And, no doubt, has been a role model for other young black actors.
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I'm with you, Babi. Its hard enough keeping up with neighbors! Tee hee! This book is more a history of Poitier's life of being black and trying to get into Hollywood successfully and the desegregation of the country plus his many awards for his movies.
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Unfortunately, FRYBABE, I have. What's worse, they look at some
outrageously silly cover story, complete with photo 'proof', and
actually believe it!
JACKIE, I assume you're thinking of "You can fool
all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time,
but you can't fool all the people all the time." Which no doubt is the
key to making our survival possible. ;)
Ah, yes, ELLA and ANNIE. I see what you're saying now. Heaven knows we've all been right in the middle of those times.
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Babi: I misspoke, it was H L Mencken who said it:
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
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Mrssherlock, you were probably thinking of "There's a sucker born every minute." which was attributed to P.T. Barnum. According to several sources though, he didn't say it a rival of his did. Well that was news to me. See link:
http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html
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Fry: What a hoot!
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That's incredible. I had seen mentions of the Cardiff Giant, but never knew what it was. I wonder if Hull was prosecuted.
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Ah, the lengths to which some people will go to perpetrate a hoax,
especially if it illustrates the ignorance of some other party. 8)
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Speaking of hoaxes, BABI, I just got the book BETRAYAL about Bernie Madoff. INCREDIBLE, that the man was able to perpetrate his scheme for so many years and to defraud all those people!
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Madoff was instrumental in the development of the NASDQ. Maybe that lent credence to his claims.
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Jackie,
I didn't know Madoff was involved in the founding of NASDAQ but I seem to remember that it is the only stock exchange that was founded to run on the promise of no debts?? Is that right?
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A paragraph from Wikipedia on the history of NASDAQ"
"When the NASDAQ stock exchange began trading on February 8, 1971, the NASDAQ was the world's first electronic stock market. At first, it was merely a computer bulletin board system and did not actually connect buyers and sellers. The NASDAQ helped lower the spread (the difference between the bid price and the ask price of the stock) but somewhat paradoxically was unpopular among brokerages because they made much of their money on the spread.
NASDAQ was the successor to the over-the-counter (OTC) and the "Curb Exchange" systems of trading. As late as 1987, the NASDAQ exchange was still commonly referred to as the OTC in media and also in the monthly Stock Guides issued by Standard & Poor's Corporation."
An over-the-counter penny stock trade market.
Madoff did have a license qualifying him as a stockbroker; also he passed the exam to not just to work for a brokerage firm, but to run one.
Apparently, he couldn't make enough money the legitimate way????
The Jewish connection! Had he not had that connection, he could not been so successful in his POnzi scheme.
Does anyone remember having a KAY WINDSOR DRESS?
Apparently Carl Shapiro, a billionnaire and one of the earliest investors in Madoff's funds, made his money from the Kay Windsor dresses in the '50's and 60's.
http://www.shapirofamilyfdn.org/matriarch/MultiPiecePage.asp_Q_PageID_E_1_A_PageName_E_AboutTheFoundation
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Madoff Securities leased the 17th, 18th and 19th floors of this building (dubbed the Lipstick Building for its shape). A lovely building isn't it?
http://www.hines.com/property/detail.aspx?id=249
"Not surprisingly, a large number of the company's 150 employees worked for Madoff Securities for years....The employees grew up together, spent time with each other outside work, knew each other's wives and kids, lived through one another's weddings, divorces, and illnesses. It was the kind of company you knew you could work at for the rest of your life. No one ever got laid off. It was like a government job. You knew you could work here forever."
Isn't that an interesting paragraph?
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Interesting article and I like the "lipstick building". Something that Wright might design?? Maybe, maybe not!
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
What a subject FDR is and has been for authors and it continues! Not long ago we finished a month-long discussion of his Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, and now I have just read a very good book about Louis Howe, his life, his genius for strategic pollitical thinking; credited with putting FDR in the White House for which he has received little acclaim over the years. Anyone who has read of FDR has seen his name in print, but to read of his life was very interesting.
The author was Julie Fenster, who has written a book titled THE CASE OF ABRAHAN LINCOLN, which I think I will get at the library. Another endless subject for authors.
Whatcha' all reading?
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Babi,
On finishing Poitier's book, I changed my opinion of this book. I found him trying to maintain the moral lessons and wonderful upbringing that he had on Cat Island plus let us know his parents and their decision to send him to Nassau and then up to NYC. He feels that this is the story of his spiritual journey thru life. My mom always quoted Shakespeare's line to us as we grew up: "To thy own self, be true." I feel that this man was trying to do just that.
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Thank you, ANNIE. That has always been my impression of the manl
I'm glad to hear that has come through in the book. I will search for a
copy of "Stand As A Man".
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Babi
The title is "The Measure of a Man". I think you will enjoy it.
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Oh, thanks, ANNIE. I'd have had a hard time finding it under the wrong
title, wouldn't I. ::)
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Does anyone here read E books? I have never been keen about reading from a computer screen. I have frequently printed hard copies of 20 to 30 pages Adobe Reader reports that I frequently receive by E-mail from my broker to avoid reading them from the screne. None the less Books for reading on-line have been available for purchase from both Amazon.com and the B&N on line book store. Now there will soon be another on-line bookstore resulting from today’s announcement by Apple of the soon to be Apple’s I-Bookstore and I-Pad Tablet. Actually the I-Pad Tablet will do much more than just read books purchased from the I-Bookstore. (See the 10 things to do with my Apple I pad link below) The cost of the 10in screen instrument begins at $499. Click the following links for more information on this new Apple product
Apple Launches iPad Tablet, iBooks Bookstore http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2358480,00.asp
10 things to do with my Apple I pad http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2358187,00.asp
Yesterday I downloaded the B&N reader available free from B&N from http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ebooks/index.asp . You can download the reader for your I-Phone, Blackberry, Dos PC or Mac PC. I downloaded it for my Dos PC. Included were three free books Pride and Prejudice, Little Women, and a Merriam Webster Pocket Dictionary. I found reading from the books on my 22” Monitor using my single vision computer glasses easier than I had thought it would be. Also the software allows the user to easily highlight key sentences or paragraphs for future study. I just might try an E-book read of my next Seniorlearn discussion. I don’t think I would find reading a book from the little I-Phone or Blackberry screens either practable or enjoyable.
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Thanks for the synopsis, Harold. I vaguely remember reading an article, years ago, that sounds very much like this expedition.
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That's fascinating, HAROLD. As a Texan, you would think I knew about the French expedition to the Texas Coast. I don't remember that from my Texas history schoolbooks. I have always associated the French explorations with Louisiana and the Mississippi. I suppose Fort Louis had to brief a life to get much attention in the history books. Sadly, the
Karankawas did not survive European settlement.
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I have just watched a program about Winston Churchill and a new book about him. The title escapes me but the author said that Churchill main talents were his writings plus his painting. He was a born writer and much the interview took place in his library where the first book that he wrote is ensconced in a place of honor. This might be something that the non fiction DL's would be interested in for this spring. Looking up the title, I found, :
"Churchill" by Paul Johnson, only 192 pages.. I think I will try for a library copy and see what its all about.
If anyone is interested, here's a link to Churchill's writings:
http://www.churchillbooks.com/guide.cfm
I did not know that Churchill wrote a novel,too. "Savorala" circa 1900.
I was lucky enough to tour where he was born while in England and there found a room dedicated to his letters to his parents from his boarding school. He was nine years old and already writing prolifically! Amazing to read and I was so engrossed by his words that I almost missed the bus to return to our hotel. Our day was dedicated to Churchill so we toured the cemetery where he was interned before touring the mansion where he was born.
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Just a small addition here. When I searched for this book at my library and found it, there was already a waiting line of 3 people. And there are nine copies at the library. Maybe the fact that it is short, I can look forward to reading it in February. Well, that won't do as we are discussing "America's Prophet" starting on Monday. Well, do join us then.
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I remember Winston Churchill particularly from his WW II speeches. He was the last of the old school orators. Yet his speeches were always concise and to the point delivered in a clear well articulated voice that blended well with the occasional burst of static coming from my shortwave radio on which I sometimes first hear them. One of his biographies would make a good discussion..
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Well, there we have it!
Several nonfiction books to look up at the library. Churchill and what a subject he is! We have, no doubt, discussed WWII in length in other books, but not on Churchill's life. And Clementine, I wonder if there is a book about her life? Did they have a happy marriage?
The French and the Spanish in Texas, HAROLD! And the LaSalle book sounds great! I must look it up in the Library when I get there.
Do you have a copy Harold? Do you think it would make a good discussion?
I was just reading in TIME about the Spanish and the French in Haiti. The Spanish held the island utnil 1697 when they ceded it to France. It wasn't until 1804 that Haiti became independent; although the U.S. under Woodrow Wilson tried to unite the forces in Haiti (1915-1934)
Those early French and Spanish explorers attempted to gain land everywhere.
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I've heard this is a very good book. Has anyone read it?
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Lone-Survivor/Marcus-Luttrell/e/9780316007559/?itm=1&USRI=lone+survivor
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I must mention than one of our North San Antonio local high schools built in the 1960's is named after Winston Churchill. He was well liked in the United States and I am sure other local schools etc carry his name today.
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Even if we don't discuss "Lone Survivor", I would think it most interesting. The synopsis is well done.
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Ella in Message #811 wrote:
> I was just reading in TIME about the Spanish and the French in Haiti. The Spanish held the island until 1697 when they ceded it to France. It wasn't until 1804 that Haiti became independent; although the U.S. under Woodrow Wilson tried to unite the forces in Haiti (1915-1934)
In September 1684 the La Salle Expedition made its first new world land fall on Hispaniola (Saint Dominguez). At that time the island was already French. Today the country of Haiti shares this island with the Dominican Republic (See map at http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/caribbean/haiti/ ). At that time there was a French colonial administration but it was very weak and assorted pirates pretty well controlled the eastern part of the Island. One of La Salle’s 4 ships had been separated from the fleet. As it approached the Haitian port, it was captured by pirates and lost. The Spanish got their first information on the pending French colony a few months later from prisoners capture after a pirate raid on the coast of Mexico.
At the time health condition on the Island were deplorable. Many of French crew and would be settlers became ill with various diseases; many died. La Salle came down with a fever and for many days lingered on the verge of death. He recovered but the illness may have been a factor effecting his later decisions. The effect of other linger diseases such as syphilis most certainly affected the ability of the colonists to function in the wilderness environment. The fleet departed Haiti heading North on Nov 30, 1684
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Does anyone here read E books? I have never been keen about reading from a computer screen. I have frequently printed hard copies of 20 to 30 pages Adobe Reader reports that I frequently receive by E-mail from my broker to avoid reading them from the screne. None the less Books for reading on-line have been available for purchase from both Amazon.com and the B&N on line book store. Now there will soon be another on-line bookstore resulting from today’s announcement by Apple of the soon to be Apple’s I-Bookstore and I-Pad Tablet. Actually the I-Pad Tablet will do much more than just read books purchased from the I-Bookstore. (See the 10 things to do with my Apple I pad link below) The cost of the 10in screen instrument begins at $499. Click the following links for more information on this new Apple product
Apple Launches iPad Tablet, iBooks Bookstore http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2358480,00.asp
10 things to do with my Apple I pad http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2358187,00.asp
Yesterday I downloaded the B&N reader available free from B&N from http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ebooks/index.asp. You can download the reader for your I-Phone, Blackberry, Dos PC or Mac PC. I downloaded it for my Dos PC. Included were three free books Pride and Prejudice, Little Women, and a Merriam Webster Pocket Dictionary. I found reading from the books on my 22” Monitor using my single vision computer glasses easier than I had thought it would be. Also the software allows the user to easily highlight key sentences or paragraphs for future study. I just might try an E-book read of my next Seniorlearn discussion. I don’t think I would find reading a book from the little I-Phone or Blackberry screens either practical or enjoyable.
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HAROLD, my daughter has a Kindle which she uses when she travels; easier to pack than 2-3 books. I have looked at it and although it would be easier to read in bed (which I do), still I prefer the printed page. She tells me that many books are free but they are ones that most of us have read before, etc., etc.
What you are saying (????) and what I read from that site you posted from B&N is that one can read a book from your computer screen?
Is that correct? What do you pay for the privilege of reading a book of your choice?
I don't think I want to sit in front of my computer screen to read a book if that is what is offered?
I did get the book LONE SURVIVOR at the library, but my daughter stopped in and took it right away - she promises to bring it back. It does look good, ANN.
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HAROLD AND OTHERS?
I am looking for a good book on China, yesterday and today, tomorrow?
I brought home one from the library, but it is more like a textbook.
Don't you think it would make an excellent subject to discuss, explore? Need I say how much the country is topical?
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Ella, I would recommend "China Road" by Rob Gifford. Here's a link to NPR that says something about it. We loved it - and learned a lot. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10474172
Harold, I have a Kindle and love it. My prime reason for getting it is that it allows me to read larger books without the weight. My hands just won't let me hold regular books comfortably. There are a number of others on SeniorLearn who have Kindles, too. I don't know if anybody has one of the other e-readers.
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I agree with MaryZ that CHINA ROAD by Bob Gifford is a great read, one of my best of 2009. Gifford, a PBS Correspondent, decided to travel on China's new highway from Shanhai, 3000 miles across China, along their old Silk Road, and through the Gobi Desert, to the border of one of the "-stan" countries. He speaks good Chinese, and talked with people in all the towns where he stopped, and told some of the history of the different areas. Very interesting to hear the people's comments on their country. Some of the Muslim/Chinese people in the west and the Tibetan people are sad to see their way of life gradually disappearing, as their children are being taught the Chinese language and culture. Fascinating book.
Marj
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Ella, a couple of other books on China on my TBR list that look interesting to me and have gotten very good reviews:
RIVER TOWN; TWO YEARS ON THE YANGTZE by Peter Hessler
ORACLE BONES; A JOURNEY BETWEEN CHINA'S PAST AND PRESENT by
Peter Hessler
POSTCARDS FROM TOMORROW SQUARE; REPORTS FROM CHINA by James M. Fallows
Marj
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Going back to Haiti for a minute.. there is a book
named Toussaint of Haiti which looks very interesting. It is about Toussaint L'Ouverture. It is available at Amazon and is available on Kindle.
Joan Grimes
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The library in the small town near me has e-book and audio-book for download on the computer or other devices. It is called R.E.A.D.S. (Regional Ebook & Audiobook Download System).
Each ebook can be downloaded for fourteen days, and fifteen items can be selected at one time.
All the local libraries have the ebook and audiobook available for download to one's computer or other device in this area which is rural with small towns. Since I regularly order books from other libraries, this will mean, 'no waiting'.
I prefer a book in my hands, and do not read too much online, but the audiobooks on the small netbook by the bed is a winner.
The R.E.A.D.S. program has been available for a few months, and when I went in to pick up a book I had ordered recently, I saw their brochure and the rest is history.
Check your local library, the speed of technology changing daily is amazing.
Emily
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THE CUKOOES EGG me too. it seems a long time ago though. the cyber world has grown since.
Claire
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Ella,
Didn't I bring you a audio book titled "The Man Who Loved China"? Did you get a chance to listen to it?
The Cuckoo's Egg was just a really good book. There is another old book about computers titled "The Soul of a New Machine" by Tracy Kidder. I read that one in 1982, I think. Was hooked immediately.
I watched Stephen Jobs present his "magical" new iPad. Its got everything but a camera. Sort of a combination of an iPhone and the iPod plus many other things. Amazing!
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the ipod is really redundant. my sansum celll phone which came at a huge discount from my provider has all that and a camera as well. no touch screen but I like to feel the buttons and can text ffast as needed. upgrade HELL as I think of it. I do love this new cyber world as a setting for thrillers and mysteries.
claire
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Thanks, Adoannie, for the link to the Chartwell Book Store's list of Churchill's books. I can remember hearing him speak -- such a wonderful speaker.
Ella, I found a biography of Churchill's wife in my library: MY DARLING CLEMENTINE; THE STORY OF LADY CHURCHILL by Jack Fishman (481 pp, 1963). I have not read it.
There is a book about Churchill I've had on my TBR list for some time that sounds interesting: TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN; THE REBELS WHO BROUGHT CHURCHILL TO POWER AND HELPED SAVE ENGLAND by Lynn Olson (448 pp, 2007)
Marj
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THANK YOU ALL FOR THOSE SUGGESTIONS. Now to get to the library. I reserved Oracle Bones and Troublesome Young Men (2007). The first paragraph of the Churchill book reads as follows:
"They were schooled at Eton and Harrow, Cambridge and Oxford. They lived in Belgravia and Mayfair and spent their weekends at sprawling country houses in Kent, Sussex, and Oxfordshire. They were part of the small, clubby network that dominated English society. And now, in May 1940, these Tory members of Parliament were doing the unthinkable: trying to topple Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, the leader of their own party, from power."
Meanwhile I just finished a wonderful book titled THE BOOKSELLER OF KABUL by Anne Seierstad, a book that has been translated into 13 languages. It is the story of one family in Afghanistan and after reading it, one wonders how the country can ever be brought into the 21st century. They seem to be stuck in the 18th!
A few unexpected insights in the book:
"The Russian troops withdrew in 1989. A few months later the Berlin Wall fell, an event for which Rabbani (ex president of the country) takes credit, in addition to the breakup of the Soviet Union. Had it not been for jihad, the whole world would still be in the Communist grip. The Berlin Wall fell because of the wounds that we inflicted on the Soviet Union and the inspiration we gave all oppressed people. We broke the Soviet Union up into fifteen parts. We liberated people from Communism. Jihad led to a freer world. We saved the world because Communism met its grave here in Afghanistan."
There may be a grain of truth in that???
What do you think?
I'll look up that war and see how many Russian troops died there and a few more facts about it.
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One paragraph of interest:
"The Soviet war in Afghanistan badly affected the rule of Communist Party. Many thought that the war was against Islam. This created strong feelings among the Muslim population of Central Asian Soviet Republics. The Soviet army was really in very low spirits or "morale" because they were unable to control the people and were treated only as invaders everywhere they went. Andrei Sakharov openly said the action of Soviet Army in Afghanistan was wrong.
Over 15,000 Soviet troops got killed in Afghanistan from 1979 until 1989. In the war, the Soviet Army also lost hundreds of aircraft, and billions worth of other military machines. Around a million Afghan men, women and children died in the war."
from: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan
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What book are you quoting from, Ella?
(A few unexpected insights in the book:
"The Russian troops withdrew in 1989. A rew months later the Berlin Wall fell, an event for which Rabbani (ex president of the country) takes credit, in addition to the breakup of the Soviet Union. Had it not been for jihad, the whole world would still be in the Communist grip. The Berlin Wall fell because of the wounds that we inflicted on the Soviet Union and the inspiration we gave all oppressed people. We broke the Soviet Union up into fifteen parts. We liberated people from Communism. Jihad led to a freer world. We saved the world because Communism met its grave here in Afghanistan.")
Marj
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I was rambling, MARJ!
That paragraph was from the THE BOOKSELLER OF KABUL by Anne Seierstad,
A very good book, translated into 15 languages.
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I agree with Ella, The Bookseller of Kabul is very good. My copy has since disappeared. I have a sneaky suspicion I lent it to someone and it never came back. Don't remember who.
Oh, well.
Another one you might consider is The Places In Between by Rory Stewart. Mr. Stewart walked, yes walked, from Iran to Kabul shortly after the Russians left Afghanistan.
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I read "The Bookseller of Kabul", ELLA, and found the family interaction
so upsetting it spoiled my enjoyment of the book. The treatment of the
women was infuriating, yet the women contributed to it by the way they
raised their sons. I had similar reactions to other books set in that
milieu. I suspect it will take a very special book to seduce me to read
another of that genre.
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BABI, I agree with you, the book was upsetting and I don't think I want to read another that deals with families or women in the Muslim world.
There but for the grace of God, go I.
I think the same thoughts when I see the terrible TV pics of Haiti.
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I'm reading a fascinating book that delves into the fundamentalist Islamic culture and has my eyes popping out -- A GOD WHO HATES by Dr. Wafa Sultan, a Muslim female physician who grew up in Syria, but now lives in the U.S. She tells some very surprising and devastating stories of how these people think and act, but most interesting is her explanation of how Islam came into being and why it continues to be so harmful. A very revealing book.
Marj
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Greetings -
A new biography I just heard about on C-SPAN last night
Pops: A life of Louis Armstrong by Terry Teachout
from a review:
Wall Street Journal arts columnist Terry Teachout has drawn on a cache of important new sources unavailable to previous Armstrong biographers, including hundreds of private recordings of backstage and after-hours conversations that Armstrong made throughout the second half of his life, to craft a sweeping new narrative biography of this towering figure that shares full, accurate versions of such storied events as Armstrong's decision to break up his big band and his quarrel with President Eisenhower for the first time. Certain to be the definitive word on Armstrong for our generation.
I will place on my TBR shelf. Looks like a good one.
Mary
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I read "The Bookseller of Kabul" and was very glad I did. It was well written and apparently an honest depiction of most family life in Afghanistan. However, in "Three Cups of Tea" by Greg Mortenson, which many of you have read, the author tells of one of the tribesmen and his wife and the strong bond between them. So, as in any culture, everyone is not identical in their actions. If everyone was the same, Mortenson would not receive so much help from the Afghanistan men in building his schools for girls.
Mary, I heard Brian Lamb's Q & A with the author of "Pops: A life of Louis Armstrong" last night and it sure was interesting.
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I found "Three Cups of Tea" a very welcome alternative picture of Afghanistan. Where the "Bookseller of Kabul" left a bad taste in my
mouth, the "Three Cups of Tea" was a refreshing restorative.
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I watched Booknotes with Thomas Fleming and all about his new title "The Intimate Lives of the Founding Fathers" and it also looks quite good. The interviewer was a college history professor who really asked some interesting questions as did the audience participators. Fleming gives top honors to Dolly Madison and Abigail Adams for helping to save the country, each in their own way.
I have reserved a copy of "The God Who Hates".
We covered Afghanistan and the treatment of women in "A Thousand Splendid Suns" by the same author of "The Kite Runner". What always amazes me is the women's seemingly acceptance of their treatment. As if that's just the way it is.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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As I was heading for the checkout line I saw a book dispkayed in my library for impulse shoppers. The Lost Paintingby Jonathan Harr caufght my eye because it referred to Caravaggio, of whom I am enamored. I thought the book was fiction, it was told in a narrative style, interminging the painter's life with the tale of some researchers studying the provenance of some of his reputed paintings. Each "actor" is finely delineated and one feels as if one could immediately start a conversation with/about them. Caravaggio is sort of a cult idol, to my surprise, and there are rabid feuds among the scholars; I always love to read about adacemics' feuds. I heartily recommend this look at the hidden wsorld of art history research for its szubject, its suspense and its humanizing of the Ivory Tower's real life residents. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/books/review/13handy.html
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Did Irving Stone, or some such author of that age, write a novel about Caravaggio? I vaguely remember reading a really good fiction account about him many, many yrs ago............jean
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He certainly had a life that would make good fiction.
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My little library (Salem's population = 125,000 or so) has 30 listings under the keyword "Caravaggio" http://catalog.ccrls.org/search/?searchtype=X&SORT=D&searcharg=caravaggio&searchscope=1&submit.x=35&submit.y=20&submit=Submit
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Mabel,
This might be a good read about the artist, Carravaggio, http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98374.M_The_Man_Who_Became_Caravaggio (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98374.M_The_Man_Who_Became_Caravaggio)
Jackie,
Funny, you should remember that book title, Jackie. I brought home the audio of the book but didn't like the reader. I have just reserved it again to give it a better chance. I love art history books and must have read everything that Irving Stone wrote, long ago and far away. ;)
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At the moment, and in some places, ANNIE, I suppose the is 'the way it
it'. We live with what we must and cope as best we can. But where possible women do fight against such treatment and live better and richer lives. Mahlia could give you loads of information about that.
I have an autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini, read years ago, that
certainly raised my eyebrows. Don't you find that journals, diaries and
autobiographies give much better insights into the character and
personality of the famous?
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Babi: Cellini's bio was on my liast of TBR but somehoiw it slipped through the cracks. Thanks for the reminder.
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I read Cellini's autobiography 50 years ago (Yikes! Where has the time gone?) and thought it was a hoot. I wouldn't trust it for accuracy, though. He's full of the politicking, intrigue, infighting and angling for patronage, always telling his side of the story. There are many stories of someone being against him until they saw his work and were overwhelmed by its quality. (Of course, his work really was that good, but I doubt it worked that way.)
If nothing else, it's worth reading the story of casting his statue of Perseus. The shape was supposed to be impossible for techniques of the time, he was sick with a raging fever, and his assistants had deserted him. So this semi-delirious man is dealing with a furnace full of molten metal, a mold that won't fill properly, throwing in the silverware because the consistency isn't right, and eventually producing this:
http://www.italian-renaissance-art.com/images/Perseus-With-the-Head-Medusa-cellini.jpg (http://www.italian-renaissance-art.com/images/Perseus-With-the-Head-Medusa-cellini.jpg)
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Truely awesome.
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Marvelous, isn't it, PatH? Do you remember all that from 50 years ago?
I can barely remember having read it and that it was 'a hoot', as you
call it. Cellini was very full of himself, but that seemed to be much
the norm among these competitive, patron-dependent artists.
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I read it when I was a kid -- my parents had it. I suspect I didn't understand some of it. But I remember him throwing in the teaspoons, now that Pat has reminded me.
It can be hard having a sis like Pat who remembers everything! She'll say "Do you remember when we were 10 and went to ---- movie, the scene where ------.
Sure I do!!?!#!
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Well guess what Folks...I went looking for the Cellini book on Kindle and it is now on Kindle. I ordered it. Since Art is one of my main interests I am sure that I will like the book ::)
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To Joang...Enjoy! To JoanK... ;D
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I just finished reading Too Close to the Sun by Curtis Roosevelt, grandson of FDR. He was intervijewed on the radio one night and thus I was motivated to buy it. It is a peek intothe lives of the rich, the Roosevelts living in the White House. He reveals what life was like living there and portrays the president and his wife as being warm and friendly. He also said, FDR's mother, Granny, always got a bad rap from the tabloids, but he saw her in a very different light.
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Oh that sounds really good
I will have to check and see if I can get it on Kindle .
Thanks for telling us about
Too Close to the Sun EdithAnne.
Joan Grimes
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I suppose it's natural that he would, EdithAnne. A grandmother with
her grandson may be a very different person than the one most of the
world sees.
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Thanks, EdithAnne, for the suggestion. Curtis Roosevelt. Is it this grandson who headed a Social Security, or was it AARP, commission for many years. I used to get letters - printed pamphlets - from a Roosevelt who was doing it to honor his father who pioneered the Social Security program.
When was this book published, EdithAnne? I think I may have read it; there are so many books about FDR and Eleanor and I have read many of them. What a pair, they will never be equalled in the White House.
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Eleanor and FDR were an impressive pair, but I always thought them a
sad couple. I cannot help but think they would have been happier had
they not married.
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A sad couple, BABI? Never thought of them in that way; perhaps you are right. But Eleanor (with Louie Howe) was the one to persuade FDR to get back into politics, after polio, and, had she not been on the scene, the country might have come out of the depression and WWII differentlly. What do you think?
And, of course, FDR found many pleasures (ahem!) in his female staff and friends. Eleanor was the sad one I think, and her last years alone were the worst.
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Ella - i tho't of ER's yrs after FDR died as her good yrs. She got jobs and a reputation in her own right and could spend time w/ her friends w/out denying time to FDR..............Allida Black (Project Director and Editor, The Eleanor Roosevelt Papers & GWU Research Professor of History and International Affairs) says in the introduction of her book Casting Her Own Shadow: ER and the Shaping of Postwar Liberalism, "ER....was the consummate liberal power broker.........ER grew into power.....her life before 1945 was marked by intensely private and public challenges. Some demands threatened ER's self-confidence, while others pushed her into unfamiliar arenas which demanded skills she never knew she possessed. The more she confronted the disappointments and set her own expectations, the more independent she became, the more she trusted her own abilitities and the more she wanted to achieve............When confronted w/ this huge change in her life, when she no longer had to defer to her husband's office and priorities, she could rise to the challenge. She had now not only the opporutnity "to start again," but the expertise necessary to build a legcy of her own.
Truman appointed her a delegate to the organizing of the United Nations, basically to get her out of WAshington and away from interfering in his domestic policies, because he knew he would have to have her support to hold the New Deal coalition together. Of course, she made her mark on the Declaration of Human Rights making sure the statement said "rights for men and women," and including statements giving religious and education freedom to everyone. She had quite a fight w/ the Soviet delegation over the religious issue.
I think she really enjoyed that position. She was a consummate politician and enjoyed the give and take, particularly w/ the Soviets, and understood the importance of her accomplishments of getting so many rights written into the Declaration, some of which are still being worked on today thruout the world.
In her conclusion, Black says "As she aged, she saw democracy in broader terms and used a variety of tactics to implement her vision. As a politician, she tirelessly campaigned for local, state, and nat'l leaders; raised money for political and social reform organizations; and mediated fractious internal disputes which threatened to divide coalitions she worked to build. As a journalist, she dedicated her work to explaining controversial issues, mobilizing grassroots support for political and economic reform, and holding politicians accountable for their actions. As an activist, she chaired investigative committees, embraced confrontation and raised money for legal challenges. And finally, as both a mother confessor and political sage to liberal leaders and party officials, she provided the perfect example of politics and honor................ER was a woman, not a saint. She was a power broker, not an elected official. Nevertheless she cast a long shadow across the nation.
http://www.amazon.com/Casting-Her-Own-Shadow-Liberalism/dp/0231104049
The review on this site addressed in a better way the issue of her life after FDR - at both sites scroll down to read the reviews.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Casting-Her-Own-Shadow-Eleanor-Roosevelt-and-the-Shapi_W0QQitemZ290373601348QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Texbook_Education?hash=item439b9d8844
Jean
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OH, YOU ARE SO RIGHT, JEAN. Those were good years for her; I was thinking of when she was old and of the book we discussed in 2002 entitled KINDRED SOULS. Here it is in our Archives:
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/KindredSouls.html
It was such a sad book in so many ways that I have never forgotten it. But you are right in that Eleanor blossomed after FDR's death, without the constraints of being his wife and all that the position of First Lady entailed. She was so admirable.
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I think you are probably right, ELLA. Eleanor was the sad one. Despite
her many accomplishments, her private life could not have brought her
much happiness. One reason, no doubt, that she treasured her friends so
highly. I agree, JEAN has it right.
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I remember in one of the books that I read Eleanor complained of her children always asking her for money and she was not a wealthy person. FDR had put his own trust money in buying and restoring Warm Springs, GA. Of course, both made money in their lifetimes but they were not wealthy people. She was not close to her children at all and, in fact, the one she counted on the most, her daughter, Anna, betrayed her (so she thought) by bringing FDR and his mistress together. It would have happened with or without Anna, but it hurt Eleanor, so I read.
Her marriage and her children did not bring her happiness; perhaps that is why she so diligently sought the limelight in her other pursuits.
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Ella, I think you are right about ER. She was unhappy at times. However, I do believe that she enjoyed her travels during WWII. She saw the world, and gave to our service personnel. It seems to me that one of the joys of her life was doing for others.
I also think that as her mother died when she was young, she was not nurtured as much as she needed. She apparently never was close to her mother, and her father was an alcoholic. So, from what I have read, she didn't have good role models for healthy parenting.
Some people should never be parents. Perhaps she was one of those. She was ahead of her time. She was an indepedent woman. Even though she was married and a mother, she would have preferred being an executive woman, with another title, rather than "just" a mother and a wife. At least those are the impressions I have of her, from all I have read.
Personally, I wish there were more biographies of first ladies. I would love to read an accurate bio of Pat Nixon. But, the only one I could find was written by her daughter. I think discovering how she lived with Richard Nixon, would be an inteeresting read. How Ike's carreer affected his wife, would also be interesting. How did Herbert Hoover's life choices impact his wife?
We know a lot about our President's, but I for one, want to know more about their wifes. Isn't it time for we women to see more bios of women?
Back to bed now. I have intestinal flu, and have been spending all of my time, either in bed, or the bathroom.
Sheila
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A biography of Pat Nixon or Mamie!
We would all like to know more about those two; most of us of a certain age remember them as silent shadows when their husbands were in the White House. What of their youth, their courtships, their marriage, their political views? Pat Nixon, of the red coat in China, and Mamie, with those "awful" bangs (my opinion of course).
Certainly they had friendships and I think a good author could write a biography that many women would love to read.
Speaking of good authors, I just saw David McCullough on BookTV and he's aged. He was stumbling and rambling. What did I expect - it happens, but I do so hate to see it of my favorite people.
Sheila, I hope you get better soon. That's no fun.
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If I may skip to more recent politics, I've just finished
Mark Halperin's Game Change, about most of the people involved in the presidential election and what went on behind the scenes.
Highly recommended!
Here's the Amazon link, which gives many reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Change-Clintons-McCain-Lifetime/dp/0061733636/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266593927&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Change-Clintons-McCain-Lifetime/dp/0061733636/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266593927&sr=8-1)
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Ella - one of the best books i've ever read is Carl Anthony's First Ladies: the Saga of President's Wives and Their Power, 1960 - 1990, vol 2 . He has a first vol up to 1960 which is on my TBR list- my library didn't have the first vol until this yr. Even tho i read vol 2 10 or more yrs ago, i remember getting a very different picture of Pat Nixon than i had had before reading. I also got a more favorable impression of Nancy Reagan than i had had. You might want to check out those two volumes to get a idea about Mamie and Pat.
My library has NO books just about Pat Nixon - interesting, there must not be any very good ones, or perhaps objective ones, since this is a hightly Republican town. I was surprised when i looked for one and there was none.
They do have 2 books the you might look for Mamie. Ike and the story of the GEneral and his Lady by Lester and Irene David. I know nothing about it other than it was published in 1981 or 82 - both dates were listed. Another later one, 1996, was written by Susan Eisenhower Mrs Ike: Memories and Reflexations on Mamie Eisenhower. You might think that it would not be objective or even very biased, but i have always been impressed w/ SE's moderate opinions when i've heard her speak. I may have to put that one on my tbr list also.............jean
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Well! Has anyone heard about this book THE DEATH OF AMERICAN VIRTUE: Clinton vs. Starr by Gormley. The author , a professor of law, was interviewed on BookTV last night by a lawyer who represented Clinton during his impeachment trial, and the author promises that his book will be readable by layman.
A remarkable interview, which will be repeated tonight (Sunday). I went to the computer to reserve the book and discovered that my library has bought 12 copies of it (very unusual for nonfiction) and I reserved it only to discover that there is a waiting list and I am 16th and that was at 11 p.m. that night
What a title, what interviews with all the major players. Paula Jones, Monica, Whitewater, travelgate. How I remember it all and what assertions the author makes. Of course, they are his opinion, but remarkable opinions.
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Who was involved in our discussion of PARIS 1919? I'll look in our archives but I heard part of a discussion of this new book YALTA, THE PRICE OF PEACE by Plokhy and it sounds very good. I also reserved that at my library:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Yalta/S-M-Plokhy/e/9781101189924/?itm=1&USRI=yalta%2c+the+price+of+peace
Hereis a synopsis at that site:
A major new history of the eight days in February 1945 when FDR, Churchill, and Stalin decided the fate of the world
Imagine you could eavesdrop on a dinner party with three of the most fascinating historical figures of all time. In this landmark book, a gifted Harvard historian puts you in the room with Churchill, Stalin, and Roosevelt as they meet at a climactic turning point in the war to hash out the terms of the peace.
The ink wasn't dry when the recriminations began. The conservatives who hated Roosevelt's New Deal accused him of selling out. Was he too sick? Did he give too much in exchange for Stalin's promise to join the war against Japan? Could he have done better in Eastern Europe? Both Left and Right would blame Yalta for beginning the Cold War.
Plokhy's conclusions, based on unprecedented archival research, are surprising. He goes against conventional wisdom-cemented during the Cold War- and argues that an ailing Roosevelt did better than we think. Much has been made of FDR's handling of the Depression; here we see him as wartime chief. Yalta is authoritative, original, vividly- written narrative history, and is sure to appeal to fans of Margaret MacMillan's bestseller Paris 1919.
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We had a good group for that discussion: http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Paris1919.html
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Ella, thanks for the reminder about "The Death of American Virtue". It will run again, on Book TV, at 8:00 p.m. tonight, and at midnight. So, I have set it up to record. It sounds interesting.
Recently, I watched an interview with the author of the book on the Yalta conference. I found it extremely interesting. I also recently saw some program, about all of the health problems FDR had at that time of his life. Made me think that we may be kept in the dark about a number of Presidential health problems. Kennedy was in extremely poor health, too. I think that Nixon, had mental and emotional problems. I am coming to the conclusion that Presidential health problems should be a public record.
Sheila
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I have often heard it said that FDR would never be elected president today because he really could not stand.Polio had left him him completely crippled. I remember when he ran against Windell Wilkie that one of the ugly taunts that were aimed at Wilkie was, " Wilkie is crippled upstairs and crutches won't help". I was a child at the time and that one appealed to me. I have always enjoyed reading about the lives of presidents.
Joan Grimes
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Much as we might like to know, SHEILA, revealing our leaders' illness
and vulneribility would most certainly be like blood to sharks. The
President would lose much of his credibility in negotiations with other
powers, since the possiblity would rise that he might not be around long
enough to make good his promises.
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Good point, Babi. I do like the idea of getting this book though. We have always heard about FDR's illness at that conference and how he might have made some wrong decisions or gave away the farm.
I am starting "Churchill" by Paul Johnson and I like this quote of the author's from the inside flap:
"OF ALL THE TOWERING FIGURES OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, BOTH GOOD AND EVIL, WINSTON CHURCHILL WAS THE MOST VALUABLE TO HUMANITY, AND ALSO THE THE MOST LIKABLE.......NO MAN DID MORE TO PRESERVE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY AND THE VALUES WE HOLD DEAR IN THE WEST........HOW DID ONE MAN DO SO MUCH, FOR SO LONG, AND SO EFFECTIVELY?"
Not a long book, 166 pgs, but promises to be concise and most interesting.
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I am interested in reading the book about Churchill and the 'troublesome
young men' around him that Ella will be featuring in a non-fiction discussion. But your shorter biography sounds like an excellent appetizer,
ANNIE. I have always admired and liked what I knew about Churchill. His
sharp tongue got him into trouble more than once, but it also gave me
some good laughs. The man was eloquent, in more ways than one!
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Do you suppose, Babi, that Churchill was another Moses for our generation? Tee hee. I will comment on the book as soon as I get into it.
A non-fiction title suggestion from Bruce Feiler:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/books/03book.html?hpw
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SHEILA, what did you think of the interview on BookTV regarding the book THE DEATH OF AMERICAN VIRTUE? It might be a popular book except for the fact that it is almost 800 pages long!
ANN: IN APRIL we will begin discussing the book - TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN: The Rebels Who Brought Churchill to Power by Lynne Olson. Remember what you read about Churchill and bring it to the discussion. We will be putting a Proposal for the book in public very soon. Please sign up! Here is a quote from the Intro to the book:
At England's elite public schools they were drilled in the vital importance of "playing the game" and "never batting against your own side." In the years preceding WWII, a small, tight-knit and insular old boy network dominated the British government and society, as it had for generations; the members lived in the same London neighborhoods, belonged to the same clubs, went to the same parties, spoke with the same accent, used the same slang, married one another's sisters and conformed.
So what happened when their authoritarian prime minister, one of their own, appeased the world's worst dictator, had no interest in fighting, no interest in preparing England for the shock that was to come from one of the world's worst dictators who was spreading his evil, his forces, across Europe.
The story of a few disloyal rebels, who in the end saved England, is a fascinating read, a fascinating and untold story of the years before disaster struck England.
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I suppose that when we think of Moses we think of him first of all as
a great leader. I guess any prominent leader might find himself compared
to Moses. (Or have his PR staff do it. :-\) Aren't prominent generals
compared to Alexander the Great? I suppose there might be other good
examples, but it's too early in the morning.
I'm not sure if the description of Rebecca Skloot's book excites me or
scares me, ANNIE. If you read it, let me know your opinion of it.
Ella, I'm looking forward to it. The subject fascinates me; I do hope
the author does it justice. I've never read anything by Lynne Olson.
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BABI, Lynne Olson, former White House correspondent for THE BALTIMORE SUN is the author of FREEDOM'S DAUGHTERS and coauthor with her husband, Stanley Cloud, of A QUESTION OF HONOR and THE MURROW BOYS.
I've never read any of those; I can't remember where I heard of this book (memory is a problem) but I think it was on a table where our librarian places good nonfiction books. I brought it home and read half of it, then bought the book. It is well written; I think journalists write well. Well, of course, that's much too general a statement.
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Ella,
I will try to get a copy from the library and peruse it to see if I want to read it. I am still involved in America's Prophet so haven't had much time to read anything else.
And, while I was looking for the book below, I asked to reserve Troublesome Young Men. I am 1st on the list. What's going on here? Is the book about one woman's cells being used all over the world for cancer research and other medical research more interesting or what??
Babi
I will let you know if I can check out the Rebecca Skloot's book from my library. What a curious story that must be.
Well, I placed a reserve on it, but I am #259 in line for the book, and #22 in line for the CD. Now I need to buy a new CD player since mine crashed last month.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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Regarding our proposed April discussion mentioned by Ella in Message #876 above of Troublesome Young Men The Rebels Who Brought Churchill to Power by Lynne Olson click the following links for detailed reviews published in leading periodicals
From the Guardian by Tristram Hunt http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/apr/28/featuresreviews.guardianreview4
And/or from the MY Times review by Jon Mecham Click http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/books/review/Meacham.t.html
A heading formally announcing this discussion and soliciting the sign-up of participants will soon appear. All of you are invited to join this discussion.
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Ella, I was captivated by the program about the death of virtue. I am so glad that I got it recorded. Think I will order it for my kindle. However, 800 pages is daunting.
Sheila
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Wow!, ANNIE. Is the book that popular? #259?? I need to find out more
about it.
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Babi,
A friend of mine said she saw the author interviewed on TV but didn't know if it was on network TV or CSPAN's Book TV. You might look it up on CSPAN's net site and see if its there.
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hello there
thank you to JoanK for introducing me to this site.
I am an avid nonfiction reader presently in Brownsville, Texas where they have 2 great lending libraries, though a handicap is they allow only 7 books out per cardholder at a time. Being Canadian we summer at home in central-Ontario where the libraries have no restrictions on the amount of books one can take home.
Have been keeping track of the books I have read since 1980; and since 2001 keeping track of them in an online database 'readersopinions.com'. Have read a number of books about WW2 and periphery circumstances, but 2 books about the actual work of sabotage during the war particularly captivated me; 'Bodyguard of Lies' by Anthony Cave Brown & 'Intrepid' by William Stevenson. The first book was very lengthy & detailed amazing undercover workings of the war.
Hoping to acquire a copy of the April group read, though we will be in transit homeward bound & may not be able to access the internet.
Looking forward to the group discussions.
Take care
Deb
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HELLO DEB!
We are so happy to welcome a nonfiction reader and thanks for telling us of two WWII books you have read. Books about sabotage. Sound fascinating.
I hope you get back to Canada in time to join us in April! When do you leave Texas?
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Hi Deb!
Very nice to have another reader of nonfiction aboard. The two books on WW2 you mentioned sound very interesting. Have you read THE BITTER ROAD TO FREEDOM by William I. Hitchcock? Very interesting book that tells the story of the DDay invasion from the point of view of those French people and other Europeans who were liberated and how they were dealt with by the allies after the Germans were defeated.
Marj
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I'm not sure if we get CSPan, ANNIE. I rather think we don't, but I'll
check.
Welcome, DEB! Since my library checks out books for only two weeks at
a time, I couldn't handle seven books at a time, anyway. And since I'm
there once a week as a volunteer, I can always pick up another one or two if I need them.
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If you were in America's Prophet discussion, please go in and say goodbye and read the message from our author, Bruce Feiler.
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Two authors on BookTV were remarkable to listen to this weekend. James M. Morris has written PULITZER: A Life in Politics and Michael Wolff's book is THE MAN WHO OWNS THE NEWS and is about Rupert Mudoch, a man we are all familar with who controls an empire.
The press, in many diverse ways, plays such an important role in our lives.
An unbelievably biased press is described in our PROPOSED DISCUSSION - TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN, by Lynne Olson - a book about the decade of English life before WWII developed. I hope you will join us; just post here:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=1187.0
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Hello there
Thanks for the warm welcome
I quite enjoy reading books that encompass the periphery of an event i.e. an Englishwoman who just prior to WW2, married a German and in doing so was required to give up her English citizenship…and therefore spent the war in Germany ….how she lived in Germany, coped with shortages, meshed with those around her …fascinating read
Another book about a German family & their life in Germany prior & during the war…the book is written by the granddaughter. Her Grandfather was involved in the military plot to assassinate Hitler, & consequently hung. … I found this book particularly interesting with how families raised their children prior to the war, and their deep deep patriotism displays
I have been keeping track of the books I have read since 1980, and from 2002 have been entering them into an online database at www.readersopinions.com
We do not leave Texas till April. I was able to get a copy of ‘The Book Thief’ from the Brownsville library.
Looks like a good read.
Deb
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Well, that's interesting link. Since 1980?? Oh, you have put all your books that you have read on that link. I wish I had known about it long ago. So many books that I have forgotten. I do have a list of books that my f2f group has read for the last 2 or 3 yrs. but that's my only list.
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BOOKAD: WELCOME, WELCOME!
Those two books you mentioned sound fascinating. Could you give us their names?
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for some reason can't seem to find the book about the Englishwoman who spent the war years in Germany married to a German--at home in Ontario I have a hard copy with my notes and possibly can access the title there
'My Father's Country' by Wibke Bruhns--a German family aristocracy & involvement in the failed plot to overthrow Hitler
'The Bielski Brothers' by Peter Duffy--another interesting read of a group of people who were able to remain hidden in a German forest during the war years(an ever expanding group) and the brothers who were responsible for their safety
unfortunately for me the Brownsville library does not seem to have a copy of the April read, Barrie library in Ontario seems to have a copy but we don't arrive home till May
{computers & the internet are so wonderful!}--if the book is not too current a publishing-- hope to be able to get a reasonably priced copy on Amazon or someplace
must have surfed into the fiction seniorslearn booksite with my last post listing 'The Book Thief'--hopefully will get the hang of posting appropriately ...so exciting to find people with mutual interests in reading
Deb
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The titles and subject matter sound tempting. Especially "The Bielski Brothers" by Peter Duffy. That one looks like it has a Polish title name, an Irish author and its written about Germans during WWII. Hahaha! I will look at my library in downtown Gahanna! Thanks, Deb.
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OH, YOU WILL GET THE HANG OF IT, DEB!
Click on DISCUSSION INDEX in blue at the top of the page and you will see our full menu.
Then cllick on what you want - read, post, enjoy, we are so happy to have you!
And I do hope you can find a copy of TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN by Lynne Olson. Let me do some scouring around online to see what I can find.
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DEB, go to Amazon.com, you will find plenty of copies for sale there and in paperback! I was surprised and there are a few copies starting at $3.08 I think it said, although I might suggest you go for the $10 copy!!
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Yes, I got a lovely hardback used, but like new, copy of TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN at Amazon from Hamilton Books in CT. for $1.95. I see they still have one (or more) at the same price. Must have bought up a bunch. Mine arrived in very good time -- about 4 days.
Marj
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Deb: Thanks for The Bielski Brothers. Sounds like a good read. When you open the SL site look for the "Show new replies to your posts" then look for the little blue "New" flag - that'll take you to the exact location where you were last. When you find a discussion you want to return to simply post "Mark" in the reply window. That ensures you can return when you look for new replies to your last post.
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thank you for the info
finally found the button for alerting me to the unread posts
I have been using my fav & rebookmarking each time & each group with a page ref noted
will try the system with seniorlearn
I am now off to 'amazon' to get a copy of the book ...we will be in transit the month of April arriving home the first of May, but I anticipate having use of internet off & on thru our trip
take care
Deb
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Deb,
The reserve of "The Belski Brothers" has arrived at my library. That was fast! Glad you are learning your way around on this site. It just takes getting used to it.
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glad were able to get the book
real life within historic times & events can be just as interesting or more interesting than fiction I find
It is so interesting to come across situations describing people living during a well known time & their lives parallel to the event
thou I recently read a book (fiction) about an island off the coast of France that belongs to England & it had Germans holding it for the duration of the second world war
'The Guernsey Literary & Potato Peel Pie Society by Mary Ann Shaffer'
the book is fiction, written in letter format, & a wonderful read
Deb
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Good Morning Deb.
Yes the Geurnsey book was read and discussed on this board. Everyone who read it seemed to really enjoy it. I did not ever read it though. That Island is a place that I always wanted to visit.
Joan Grimes
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We now appear to have about 10 readers plus Ella and I signed up for participation in our discussion of Lynne Olson’s” Troublesome Young Men” beginning April 1st. This is a decent number but there is certainly room for more. Any additional readers are welcome. Just go http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=1187.0 for details
The book should be available at most large and many middle sized library. Also there is still time to order it paperback or hard cover from your favorite book store. The Amazon and Barnes and Noble purchase links are given below.
Barnes & Noble: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Troublesome-Young-Men/Lynne-Olson/e/9780374531331/?itm=1
Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Troublesome-Young-Men-Brought-Churchill/dp/0374531331/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268064135&sr=1-1
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The Bielski Brothers is being transferred from one local library branch to mine at the present
time.
JOY
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Harold,
Looks like you have a very good number for discussing the April offering. I have my book ready but haven't read it yet. Got it at the library.[/color]
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On which site was there the talk about the Guinevere book? I tho't it was here, but no, and it wasn't on The Library. Anyway, it's non-fiction, so i'll comment here.
I just started the first chapter last night. Two people had mentioned that it was hard going, but they loved the 2nd chapter. I actually enjoyed the first chapter - but, it is another book w/out footnotes, which frustrates me, as i said in the Am'n Prophet discussion. At one point she makes a statement something to the effect that Arthur has more literary references, or issuings than any one else. It's not clear as to what time period she is speaking for, but i tho't "REally? More than Lincoln or Napoleon?"
I remember sometime ago reading/seeing something that was deciding if Arthur was a real person, or how many persons might have been culled together to make the fictional Arthur. She appears to be sure that there was an Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot as they stand. She mentions gravesites, etc. Huuuummmm. Looking forward to reading some more of the book............................jean
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One does tend to lift an eyebrow at broad claims, ELLA. Still, there is no doubt in my mind that
there have been many more movies about Arthur, et al, than about Lincoln or Napoleon.
Arthur, after all, is much more romantic and was personally involved in any 'daring-do'.
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Maybe movies, because of Camelot, but not literature or non-fiction was my thinking......jean
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Mabel, the Guinevere discussion is going on in Fiction.
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Just ordered THE BITTER ROAD TO FREEDOM by William I. Hitchcock to read on my Kindle. It sounds fascinating.
Joag Grimes
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Hi, Joan G. Congratulations, on your granddaughter's admission to med school! That is a wonderful accomplishment.
What is the theme of the book you just mentioned?
Sheila
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I was quite taken with the Arthur myths and have a few books of fiction and claimed non fiction about that time in England.
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I think I will be visiting the non-fiction room quite often, as that is mainly what I read. I only began reading novels a few years ago; I guess I was a bit prejudiced thinking that fiction could never be as valuable as something that was true. Yeah, well don't I feel silly now, haha.
Biographies, memoirs, travel essays, and Christian theology are some of my favorites to read. Some that I have read and really enjoyed in the recent past are:
The Invisible Wall
Jesus Land
Martha's Place
Kabul 24
Here If You Need Me
What Else But Home
The Soloist
The Book That Changed My Life
Heart in the Right Place
Into The Wild
Into Thin Air
'Tis
Just to name a few! I'm really looking forward to reading the sequel to The Invisible Wall - The Dream - and also Troublesome Young Men. My college library actually has it, so I put a request in for it.
Is anyone else here a slow reader? I have many friends that go through books so fast and it just amazes me. I read the same pace silently as I do out loud. I've tried reading faster, but when I do I am not able to paint the mental pictures in my head as I always do when I read. I'm convinced that is the reason I can remember books in such vivid detail long after I have read them. I may not remember the character's names, but I sure can recall most everything else. It's not beyond me to sit at the bookstore or in a coffee shop and watch someone read, then ask them how they read. I've gotten some very interesting answers!
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Donnamo, you are not alone. Why back in high school I took a remedial reading class. In reading comprehension I was ahead of my class by several years, however, I was reading at about half the national average. I doubt that that has changed much. I am especially slow with my Latin studies.
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Glad to meet you, DONNAMO. On thinking about it, I believe you are right about reading and
remembering. When I read, I am very much 'in the moment'. Which means much of it does
not stick with me for very long. :-\
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Donnamo,
Another slow reader has joined us. I don't just read, I chew up and digest every word and therefore, I am a slow reader. I remember lots of interesting books that I have read over the years just because I read slow. Like you, I don't read any faster than if I was reading out loud.
Your list of non-fiction looks quite interesting. I think we read and discussed "Into Thin Air" or another of your titles and I know that I have also read "'Tis"and maybe "Into the Wild".
I wish you had been here last month when we read "America's Prophet" by Bruce Feiler. We have discussed three of his books and truly enjoyed each one. "Abraham" and "Walking the Bible" were others.
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I'm reading "Troublesome Young Men". An interesting book. Just finished "imperial Life in the Emerald City (Inside Iraq's Green Zone)". Very interesting but also kind of disheartening.
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Why disheartening, FLAJEAN?
I've heard of that book, shall I read it?
And keep TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN ON HAND, we will be discussing it starting April lst and need your input. We'll take just a few chapters a week.
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Disheartening because of all the unnecessary (some just plain stupid) mistakes that were made during the first few years of the war.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
I think "Where God Was Born" is the only Feiler book we didn't discuss, and I found it endlessly
fascinating. It traced the geographical and historical origins and development of many of the beliefs and traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
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An interesting list of books, DONNAMO. I've read the last three (have an autographed copy of "Tis", but not the others.
If you read "Tis", you might like his first, "Angela's Ashes" about his boyhood in Ireland. I found it even better.
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And then, Joan and Donna, there's "Teacher Man" which is about his many years at a popular high school in Manhattan.
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I'm excited by a new book about Jane Austen, Jane's Fame: How Jane Austen Conquered the World., by Claire Harman. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125015157
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Jackie, I hope you'll give us your review of the Austen book when you've read it. I'm a real Austen nut. My TBR pile includes "Jane Austen and the Navy" by Brian Southam, which I suspect is of interest only to fans of seafaring conventions of 200 years ago (I'm one).
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IMO, Angela's Ashes is by far McCourt's best book. It so happens that the movie was on last night on WGN-A here and I loved it all over again.
JOY
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We came upon the movie last week but it had already started so decided to await a repeat. Have never seen it.
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I'm just 40 pages into a book titled The Stranger and the Statesman: James Smithson and John Quincy Adams and the making of America's Greatest Museum by Nina Burleigh
I don't know how it will play out, but the beginning has been interesting. Smithson had never been to the U.S. or known anyone from the U.S. when he willed what would be $50 million dollars today to fund at Washington D.C., an institution "for the increase & diffusion of Knowledge among men."
It starts out telling how Alexander and Mabel Bell traveled to Italy to save Smithson's grave from tumbling into the Mediterranean, to bring the body back to the U.S. I have learned a lot of interesting tidbits. I didn't know that A.G. Bell not only invented the telephone, but he was responsible for a variety of "firsts," including the first hydrofoil, the first respirator, the first practical phonograph and the first metal detector (designed in frantic haste to locate the assassin's bullet in Pres Garfield) and he was involved w/ early experiments in flight.
Apparently there was some major battles about whether to accept the bequest and whether to accept Smithson's body and where to put it, what kind of a facility would hold it, from something bigger than the Jefferson Memorial to a recycled Syrian sarcophagus, that became the final resting place to the left of the entrance to the "Castle" at the Smithsonian.
The first half of the book is about how Smithson - a bastard son of Lord Northumberland - got his money, and the second half about how JQAdams championed the Institution.
Chapter 2 begins on July 2, 1761 when the Earl and countess of Northumberland arrive in Bath. Now, we've seen some very pretty pictures of Bath in the Austen movies, but the description in the book, makes one pause. It does say "the city was beautiful and sophisticated.....graceful sandstone buildings.....curving streets....Bath waters had been considered curative since Roman times.....in the 18th century science still had not yet recognized the importance of sanitatioin. ....the truly ill, especially people w/ virulent skin diseases, floated and defoliated alongside the well. ....liable to share pool space w/ dead animals and even human feces. The ladies who sipped the supposedly curative water....were essentially drinking the same fluid in which the bathers relieved themselves."!!!!
Sorry if that sickens you, but we see these beautiful movie scenes and forget what real live ws like......I would start my history classes by saying to the students "you live in the best of times," and asked if any disagreed w/ me. They would, of course, but when i asked them again at the end of the semester, more agreed w/ me...............i'll bring you more of the book later.................jean
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Having been to the Castle in the Smithsonian many times, I never noticed a grave near the entrance. That's fascinating!!
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Thanks, jean - I've just ordered that from Amazon. It wasn't on Kindle, but I bought a used hardback for something less than $6.00 (including shipping). :D
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Well, blessings on Mr. Smithson (or Lord S, as the case may be.). The Smithsonian introduced me to many of the wonders of the world when I was a child, and did the same, I hope, for my children.
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Apparently, England before Victoria was much less staid and virtuous than we think of in the Victoria era. James mother's experience - being a young widow, having an affair w/ the Duke of Northumberland, being enceinte and going off to Paris to deliver the child was not so uncommon. The French were comfortable w/ these pregnant English women according to Burleigh.
Much of what she writes and describes are generalizations about the people and the time since she has little about the Percys and Smithsons in particular, but i find it very interesting. She describes Paris as filled w/ cafes, where London has only men's clubs, and selective men's clubs, while women are relegated to parlors of there own and not involved in the public discourse as they are in France. However, Paris is VERY smelly having only one sewer system which flowed into the SEine. Most sewage was put into the streets.
Smithson's mother was very independent, strong and knowledgable about the law. She fought her second husband who was trying to get all of her property - 1000 acres in England. He died fortuitously before he accomplished his mission. She was an astute business woman and increased the bounty she inherited from her family and her first husband and apparently there are many lawsuits to come - i'm not sure about what....................jean
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Maryz - have you read Vivian Stringer's auto bio? I'm just about finished w/ it and i think you might enjoy it, being a women's basketball fan......there's a lot about her philosophy of life and coaching in it. I'm going to give it to my son, the coach, when i finish........jean
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Haven't seen that, jean - thanks. I'll check our library.
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Ella, Babi asked that I mention an autobiography I recently read titled The Seventh Muse regarding the rise of a young man from near poverty conditions to president of Auburn University. The book is rated five stars on Amazon and I think it's one of the most compelling accounts of what a person can do if reared in a supportive environment and sufficiently motivated, regardless of one's financial means. It's also current in that the author resides in retirement in Cincinnati.
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The book about James Smithson has led me to Goggle sev'l things. Here is some interesting pics of the Alnwick Castle in northern England which was the home of the Duke and Duchess of Northumberland, James paternal family.
http://www.alnwickcastle.com/media/photo-gallery
If you goggle Alnwick you see other info about it including that it was used for some of the Harry Potter movies. It is still a residential castle after 700 yrs. You can stay in an Alnwick Castle cottage and recently the Duchess of N renovated the gardens which look like they are beautiful.
And you can get married there, apparently that has become a trend at English castles ..........
http://www.alnwickcastle.com/visiting-us/the-alnwick-garden
Here is a link to his mother's family's castle, Hungerford Castle. This is a reconstruction drawing, but you can click on the other pics to see the real thing.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.16178/chosenImageId/9
This book is interesting. I haven't gotten to the JQAdams story yet, altho JS just died, so i should "hear" of JQ soon. If anyone is at all interested in science history of the late 18th century, especially of chemistry and geology, you will probably find it fascinating. James was a strange character, not much into human relationships -TIC- but i'm learning a lot about the period and the scienctific community of the period. .................... jean
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This is interesting............one of the places that James Smithson explored in his mineral/geological quest was the island of Staffa off the coast of Scotland where there are colossal vertical green-gray and black basalt columns - cooled lava from an ancient undersea volcano - which form the island's base. I couldn't picture in my mind what that would look like so i goggled and here is a picture.
http://www.salenpierhouse.co.uk/Staffa.jpg
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Thanks for sharing that amazing photo, mabel. Those structures are fantastic and the green color is wonderful.
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Jean, the photo reminded me of Mendessohn's Hebrides Overture (Fingal's Cave). So when I looked it up? Guess what! Same place. I am listening to it now on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0jxiUq9c4k&feature=related
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Steffa is amazing! I goggled, too. ;)
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JoanK,
Did you wear your goggles to google or was that goggle?? LOL! Just kidding!
I am loving those links that Mable placed here. Love the library in the Alnwick Castle and the garden.
And, the inside of Hungerford Castle.!
The book about the rise of one young man to the top sounds very interesting and timely, Jim.
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ELLA, did you see JimNT's post (#934, I think)? That book looks interesting, about a young
man's struggles from poverty to President of Auburn University.
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Annie: "Did you wear your goggles to google or was that goggle?? " No, but I giggled. ;)
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JoanK,
Tee hee!!
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JIMNT and BABI. That book sounds very interesting. My library does not have a copy of it, but next visit to a bookstore I will look it up.
Fantastic, Jean, just fantastic photos!
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I haven't seen Harold in here recently, but i tho't about him when i picked up a book at the library earlier in the week. It is a fiction book, but it's about his neck of the woods - Texas!
Janice Woods Windle wrote a great historical novel about Texas pioneers in the 19th century called True Women, so when i was this book by her, i checked it out. It's titled Will's War. Both books are based on her ancestors stories. This one was inspired by a court transcript she found about her grandfather's (?) trial during WWI. He was a German-Texan who supported a farmers and workers union and 50-some of them were accused of threatening to kill Woodrow Wilson and other officials. It sounds as tho it may be a trumped up charge based on the anger against Germans and populists - fear of socialism - the more things change..........amazing isn't it?
I've just gotten into the trial, but it sounds like 2 very good attorneys facing off against each other and she's using the very words from the court transcript.......................sounds like something Harold might know about, or enjoy, as well as the rest of you............jean
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Harold is spending much of his time now as co-leader in "Troublesome
Young Men", JEAN. Very thorough and conscientious, our Harold. When I'm in
there today, I'll tell him you're looking for him in Non-Fiction.
My great grand-father was Austrian-American. I don't know whether he immigrated or
was born here. I do know he dropped the 'Von' from his name. My grandmother had a sort
of journal/scrapbook of his which included a song, apparently to be sung to the tune of "The
Battle Hymn of the Republic". Not a great song, mind you,..more like a patriotic effort. All I can remember of it is some of the opening: "Our Uncle Sammy told us we must go and fight the Hun, (da-da-da-da) and put him on the run." Sadly, that journal was lost after my mother
died, when Dad was clearing out the house to move.
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Thanks for that info Babi.
I have some GErman ancestors who came in the last half of the 19th century, but i never heard any stories about how they were treated during WWI. Of course, they were living in Pa close to where the Pa "Dutch" were, so maybe people were more tolerant there......oh, another one of those things i wish i had asked the previous generation before they were all gone...........sigh...............jean
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Me,too, Jean.
Mine started arriving in 1850's. They were from Wurthenberg and Badin which are near or in the Black Forest.
I did find out where they landed when they arrived by boat. In New Orleans, of all places. Seems that they wanted to travel up the Mississippi River to the Cinncinati area. They first settled in Hamilton, OH, but soon moved on to a farm near Union City, IN, in Randolph county. I have even been able to have a copy of the marriage and who performed it sent to me from a county historical area.
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Ado, my husband was surprised to discover from his then-90-year-old grandfather that the family had emigrated to the US from Germany via New Orleans (not Ellis Island) about that same time. He said that the ships carried cotton from New Orleans to Germany and Germans to the US. The newcomers took the riverboats up the Mississippi - the easiest way to travel - before transcontinental trains), and settled the fertile farmland along the river. Every city of any size along the Mississippi and its tributaries has an area called "Germantown". In my state, Memphis and Nashville have "Germantowns".
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Well, MaryZ,
Thanks for the update on our German relatives and their traveling. I knew some of the info but had not heard about the ships taking cotton to Germany and then Germans to New Orleans. I do think that maybe part of my family was already in Union City, IN. My ggrandfather fought in the Civil War,too, as a Yankee. He has a grave marker from the VFWs. His name was Fidel or Fidelus or Fedelis Higi.
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I went shopping for other things yesterday. One of my stops was Ollie's ("Good Stuff Cheap") and ended up digging in their pile of books :o. And I do mean pile. Books stacked up or piled with not much category sorting. I came out with a resource book on Ubuntu/Linux and Roger Knight's The Pursuit of Victory. The life and achievement of Horatio Nelson. What a tome. Roger Knight is known for his expertise on naval history and especially renowned as a Nelson scholar.
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I just bought a new, non fiction book called: "George, Nicholas and Wilkhelm". By Miranda Carter. It begins in 1859, up to the beginning of WWI. Each of the main players is the grandson of Queen Victoria. I just finished the introduction, and it grabbed me! So, I am looking forward to reading the rest of it.
Sheila
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Sheila, my library does not have that book yet. I have an idea it is too new, but they will. I have read about those cousins before; how they fought among themselves and left Nicholas alone in his hour of need.
While looking up that book I noticed Miranda Carter got a couple of awards for writing the book Anthony Blunt, so I reserved that at the library. It starts as follows:
"From the moment of his exposure as a former Russian spy by the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, in November 1979, Anthony Blunt became a man about whom anything could be said."
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Sheila - after you read Geo et al, you might be interested in reading Grandmama of Europe; the crowned descendants of Queen Victoria / Theo Aronson. I read it decades ago and was surprised at how many European royalty were descendants of Q Victoria. As i recall it was an interesting read also................jean
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ELLA,and JEAN, thank you for your book, reccomendations. I will check them out on my Kindle. They both sound very interesting.
I just ordered a book, called: "The Duchess of Windsor", by Charles Higham. I have always wondered about her. Why did she appeal so much to the King? Why was he willing to abdicate for her? Were they happy living in exile? I wonder if she felt it was worth it?
Sheila
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According to the rumor and gossip....and it must have been rife for me to have picked up on
it...the Duchess had looked forward to being Queen and pretty much made life hell for Edward.
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Donnamo asked:
Is anyone else here a slow reader? I have many friends that go through books so fast and it just amazes me. I read the same pace silently as I do out loud. I've tried reading faster, but when I do I am not able to paint the mental pictures in my head as I always do when I read.
I think I read at an average pace. Nonfiction books take much longer for me to read because I take more notes. And one subject leads me to another, and I'm always looking things up that are referred to in the book. So I can probably read three fiction books to one nonfiction (especially when it involves history.)
Marj
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That book, GEORGE, NICHOLAS AND WILHELM sounds very interesting Sheila. I've put it on hold at my library. The book Jean mentioned about Queen Victoria also sounded interesting, but I couldn't find at Amazon or the library. Is it a new one?
Marj
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I just finished an interesting book:
BAD BOY; THE LIFE AND POLITICS OF LEE ATWATER by John Brady. Very good. Atwater was notorious back in the 1980s for turning national politics into blood sport, not only using nasty attacks but reveling in his image as the bad boy of Washington. He was Bush Sr.'s campaign adviser and is credited with helping Bush beat Dukakis with the Willie Horton issue.
Atwater was also a bit of a hell raiser in high school. In his English class he did a book report on the telephone directory. He said "It jumped around too much from character to character without sustaining any of them" and predicted "it would have to be revised next year." He got a D for content, an A for originality. On another occasion, he gave an oral report on The Hunchback of Notre Dame -- as a football saga.
Marj
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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marj - Grandmama of Europe was publ'd in 1973, it very well may be out of print. i found it at my library.
donna - i think i probably read at an average pace and not quickly, i frequently renew a book from my library and we get a month at a time, altho i get 4 - 6 books at a time, partly because i'm assuming that i'm not going to read 1 or 2 of them...........but i don't worry about what my pace is, it suits me, so what does it matter how fast others read? .............jean
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I found the book, Jean. I had missed one of the ma's in grandmama.
Thanks. Sounds good.
I just watched the movie, YOUNG VICTORIA. Had been afraid it would be just a boring romance, but it was very interesting. Even my son liked it.
Marj
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I do that, too, MARJ....go look up something I run across in my reading.
Of course, that's much more likely to happen with a non-fiction book but
I've also done it with historical fiction. I'm as pleased to learn somethng
new as a kid with a new toy.
I don't enjoy politics, esp. 'nasty' politics, but Atwater does at least
appear to have had an original outlook and sense of humor.
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Yes, Babi, I feel that way too about learning something new from reading a book. I love history and some historical fiction. WOLF HALL by Hilary Mantel was one that kept me looking up characters and events. Thank goodness for Wikipedia, even though it's said to not be error-proof by a long shot, but at least it points you in the right direction.
As for the Lee Atwater book, Bad Boy, it probably is more for someone interested in politics. But I was fascinated by him, he had an awesome mind. Was an intellectual, but played up his image of Southern old-boy
regular guy. He really enjoyed the game of politics more than the party issues. He also loved to sing and play rhythm and blues songs on his guitar and made a record that I just ordered, "Red Hot and Blue," with B.B. King and others. He was working on his PhD, and wanted to eventually teach, but sadly died in his early 40s from a brain tumor.
Marj
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I guess I have a one track mind of a sort. That’s not exactly true, but while doing “Troublesome Young Men” I do seem to have ignored the activities here. In any case I'm, back and will add a comment or two concerning recent posts.
First "GEORGE, NICHOLAS AND WILHELM" raises an interesting question. It seems to me that there should another Monarch added to make it "GEORGE, NICHOLAS.WILHELM and CHARLES". The added name being the Austrian Emperor, Charles I. It would seem appropriate in as much as the assassination of the Austrian heir was the immediate cause of WWI and that monarchy too did not survive the War.
Also regarding the Comment regarding the English Queen Victoria who was maybe not the best example of a Victorian. In her younger days she was quite a party person. Truly she loved her husband Prince Albert. Also as a middle age widow she shocked Victorians by taking long country carriage rides alone with her carriage driver. Also is it not true that the only real Victorians were Americans? English society in the early 20th century society of the ”Troublesome Young Men” was hardly Victorian.
Several years ago I posted here a rather long comment on how Victoria came to be in line for the Crown when her Uncle William IV died in 1837. Does anyone remember the story in that post?
In closing Click the following link for photos from my Chandler House Players', current Reader’s Theater Project that currently includes 2 short plays, “Frosting” and “Almost Murder.” http://www.morningsidemin.org/Chandler/chandler-players.html
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I"ve just begun reading a book called: "The Duchess of Windsor", by Charles Higham. It is surprising me to learn that Wallis, had a cruch on the Duke of Windsor, when she was 17 years old. She had relatives who were socially and financially upper class. Her uncle financed her education, and her debut. In her early 20s she and the Duke were at several social events.
I am finding this book interesting. I look forward to learning how they met, and more about their courtship. I also want to know more about their German support. I am wondering how things would have turned out if they had never met. If he had remained King of England, would he have negotiated a peace with Hitler? Since reading "Troublesome Yound Men", I have become fascinated with this time period.
Sheila
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I see Harold's back - this is a post i made on April 26 - any comment?
I haven't seen Harold in here recently, but i tho't about him when i picked up a book at the library earlier in the week. It is a fiction book, but it's about his neck of the woods - Texas!
Janice Woods Windle wrote a great historical novel about Texas pioneers in the 19th century called True Women, so when i was this book by her, i checked it out. It's titled Will's War. Both books are based on her ancestors stories. This one was inspired by a court transcript she found about her grandfather's (?) trial during WWI. He was a German-Texan who supported a farmers and workers union and 50-some of them were accused of threatening to kill Woodrow Wilson and other officials. It sounds as tho it may be a trumped up charge based on the anger against Germans and populists - fear of socialism - the more things change..........amazing isn't it?
I've just gotten into the trial, but it sounds like 2 very good attorneys facing off against each other and she's using the very words from the court transcript.......................sounds like something Harold might know about, or enjoy, as well as the rest of you............jean
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HAROLD, I see the Chandler House Players are quite popular. You have
a busy performance schedule lined up, and I see you are co-starring in
the first play. Congratulations.
JEAN, back in my college days I managed to find a transcript of the trial of William Penn in
London, back before his move to America. I'd been considering writing a play about it, but after
reading the fascinating transcript, I couldn't figure out what I could add of any significance. The
transcript pretty much covered it all.
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Y es, I see Harold's post and he is busy and having fun! Here is a website of a retirement village I am considering in my near future with a good array of activities. Am not sure yet that I am mentally ready for it, but my body is saying let's go:
http://www.oprs.org/westminster_thurber/
I just finished Carol Burnett's book THIS TIME TOGETHER. I loved her show but I should have skipped her book, she's not a writer and is not funny.
Am starting GAME CHANGE, which seems to be a popular book, and it is starting off well.
I have the book FORDLANDIA about Henry Ford's jungle city in Brazil and it looks good.
I am well prepared for spring - flowers to plant and books to read.
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Jean, I have read , “Texas” by James Michener? It is one of several novels of a style that I think are styled geographical novels in which a geographical area is written into the plot. Others by Michener include Alaska and Hawaii. I thought Michener did a good job in his inclusion of Texas history episodes that became a part of his story. Others including the Northrop & Hall Bounty Trilogy distort history to the point of rewriting it leaving me with an underlying suspicion of historical novels .
I have not read the Novel you mentioned by Janice Woods Windle, but I remember some 15 years ago a CBS TV mini-series also called “True Woman. This was the story of a young woman who heroically organized a group of Settlers and successfully led them to escape the advancing Mexican Army after the fall of the Alamo in 1836. The story supposedly based on a family tradition has no support that I know of from actual history and in fact seems to conflict with history since it failed mentioned the role of Juan Seguin who was active in the area at the time and is credited with the same activities as the woman in the story. I enjoyed the TV mini-series but I find it hard to accept as history. Others I agree might view it otherwise.
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Ella, another thing I like about living at Chandler is the activity schedule here. We have each month several area day trips. Last week for example we went to Johnson City and the LBJ Ranch about 70 miles north of San Antonio. There we visited LBJ Texas White House and had an Excellent lunch at a fine hill country eatery in Jonson City. In June or July we will go to Fredericksburg to pick peaches from the orchard trees. We always have 1 or 2 such road trips each month. Also we go as a group in the Chandler mini bus to local museums or events such as the Fiesta river parade, or Folklife Festival. Maybe even a Spurs game. This morning we toured San Fernando Cathedral and the old 18th Century Spanish Governors Palace with lunch at El Marcado. This morning we had a professional tour Guide. I sometimes lead the tours at the Institute of Texan Cultures and the National Historical Park sites. We also have in-house lectures particularly a series by a local astronomer. Even though individuals pay the cost of admissions and outside dinners are dutch treat, it is the availability of activities like these that make the rather sizable rents worthwhile.
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Harold - the tv series was based on Windle's book and Juan Sequin is mentioned in Will's Trial. He may an ancestor of Windle's, i'll have to recheck that...................jean
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HAROLD, all of those day trips sound great. I know Thurber Village has similar trips which is one of thre reasons I am thinking of going there, but leaving my condo is leaving independence in many ways and, even at 82 years of age, it is such a big decision.
LYNDON JOHNSON, what a big character he was, both in size and personality. What did you learn about him by touring his ranch that you didn't know before?
If we have not discussed a book about him before, we should do it don't you think?
JEAN, your book sounds good, whether true in fact or not. We missed you in our discussion of TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN.
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Robert Caro has written three books of a projected 4-volume biography of LBJ, Ella: THE PATH TO POWER, MEANS OF ASCENT (which won the 1980 National Book Critics Circle Award for biography), and MASTER OF THE SENATE. I keep meaning to read these (along with a kagillion other books).
Marj
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MARJ! No way, can't even think of four volumes of one man! I know he was a powerful man, but really, who is going to be reading that much, except for researchers?? I would love to read one book.
Did you listen to THE BRIDGE by Dave Remnick about Obama? We seem to be watching BookTV together today. I would like to have heard more about Obama's mother; perhaps I'll have to read the book.
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John's read Caro's Master of the Senate. He said it's not only a great look at LBJ, but an incredible overview of how the Senate works. I'm waiting for them to be available on Kindle - they're too big for me to hold to read.
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I own the 2nd and 3rd volumes of Robert Caro's bio of LJB, so I'll eventually read them. I want to read the first volume, Path to Power. Just finished a very interesting biography of Lee Atwater (BAD BOY; THE LIFE AND POLITICS OF LEE ATWATER) and that first LJB volume was Atwater's "bible." He kept one copy at home, one in his car (he had a driver), and one at his office. (There is a hilarious quote at the beginning of the 4th chapter of Atwater's bio, about what LJB said he expected in the way of loyalty from someone. I'd quote it, except some people might be offended by the language he used.)
As to the Obama biography, Ella, I didn't listen to the author on BookTV. It can be watched on the CSpan channel, so maybe I'll give it a listen. I read Obama's autobiography, DREAMS FROM MY FATHER, one of my best reads of last year. He talked about his mother's having doubts about the education he was receiving in Indonesia, so she bought a good educational program somewhere, and made Obama get up early every morning to study from it. He would complain, and she'd say "Listen, Buster, this is no picnic for me either, but it's important!"
Marj
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I really liked 'Dreams of My Father", too, MARJ. It seems to me Obama inherited his father's intelligence and charm, while managing to avoid the arrogance and impatience that led to his downfall. I have been invariably impressed by Obama's ability to remain cool, courteous and
firm under verbal attack.
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I also read Dreams of My Father and enjoyed it. It's been a while since I read and enjoyed his Audacity of Hope which is more of a policy book, but the last chapter was personal about family. When he met Michelle and her family, it seems he found not only a person but a family that he had been longing for. If you aren't interested in policy ideas, it is worth checking out the book for that last chapter.
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Master of the Senate is now available on Kindle, and I got it last night. (Plus one of our daughters and family gave me a nice Kindle gift certificate.)
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Regarding "Master of the Senate" by Robert A Caro it is Vol 3 of a 4 volume comprehensive Biography of Lindon B. Johnson, of 37th President. This is the only volume I have. Though I have never read it through, I have found it a great research source particularly in connection with other book discussions. Click the following for more on Master of the Senate. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Master-of-the-Senate/Robert-A-Caro/e/9780394720951/?itm=1&USRI=Master+of+the+Senate
Several weeks ago my Chandler House group visited the LBJ Ranch . The old ranch house now known as the Texas White House is now open for visitors and we took the tour. The house is not large enough to be considered a mansion but it is a decent size comfortable Texas ranch house with I suppose 8 to 10 rooms. At the time the Front Lawn was covered wit a carpet of Blue Bonnets The national Park service now operates the site that is open daily for visitors. I had been there before but the House was off limits for visitors while Lady Bird was alive and living there. There are many fine restaurants in the adjoining towns of Johnson City and Fredrickdburg.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Master-of-the-Senate/Robert-A-Caro/e/9780394720951/?itm=1&USRI=Master+of+the+Senate
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Our F2F group at the senior center is now reading "My Life in France" by Julia Child. Also authored and edited by Alex Prud'homme who is her grandnephew. That would be one of her sister's children or grandchildren? I was unaware of the family connection. What a surprise. And that's not Paul Prud'home, the chef!
"With Julia Child's death in 2004 at age 91, her grandnephew Prud'homme (The Cell Game) completed this playful memoir of the famous chef's first, formative sojourn in France with her new husband, Paul Child, in 1949." Amazon
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I just finished reading "Return to Joy" by Charlotte and Virginia Parker.
(It is listed on Amazon, should anyone be interested). If you have a friend, loved one or relative with dementia, this is an excellent telling of how these sisters dealt with their mother's decline. We had the pleasure of having the author address our Library Friends group, and others who wanted to attend. I could have used a lot of this information about 4 yrs ago w/MIL.
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Sounds very interesting and timely, Tomereader!
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TOMEREADER: What did you do with your MIL? I've been fortunate that none of my family or friends have had this problem; although they have had many more. Years ago, a friend's mother had dementia, it was difficult. The mother accused her daughter of stealing and breaking in her house and she got so very angry. And also she started wandering out of the house and losing her way. My friend then had to place her mother in a nursing home where they can care for her.
As you said, any information would be helpful. Thanks for the post about the book.
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MYSTERIES. I cannot read them anymore before I go to sleep; they are agitating. That's not to say I have given up on them.
But I finally found a good nonfiction book to read at bedtime; a chapter an evening is good.
"COMMANDER IN CHIEF" How Truman, Johnson, and Bush Turned a Presidential Power into a Threat to America's Future.
To paraphrase, and I shouldn't because GEOFFREY PERRET, the author of several books, documentaries, has done an excellent job of writing. WWII, and preceding wars, had a beginning and an end. Three wars since have not, they are wars that we crept into, mismanaged, and withdrew without honor.
Truman, Johnson and Bush all confronted wars that no amount of American power or prestige could win, and each reacted similarly.
Perret states that the presidency has become too powerful, it undermines the checks and balances built into the Constitution; thereby creating a permanent threat to the Constitution itself.
Further - "There is a limit to the number of people that the United States can kill, capature, or incapacitate...... There are limits to what even a superpower can do without turning the entire civilized world against it."
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Regarding Seniors and dementia, My grandmother had the problem. She had no trouble remembering her life back to the 19th century, but she couldn't remember back to yesterday. She died in the 1950's. Neither of my parents was affected. Here at Chandler I have observed some with symptoms. One was a 97 year old lady who when she first arrived had initial trouble finding her way around the campus. After several months, the layout seemed to register in her mind and actually today she is very adequately sharp. She certainly appeared to comprehend our docent led tour of the Museum of art the other day. Another somewhat more serious case involved a long term resident in our independent living apartments who last year had to move the assisted living apartment. A few weeks ago while he was visiting his wife in the nursing home he became confused and could not find his way back to his apartment in the assisted living wing.
Here in our independent living apartment we have an interesting compute machine that is supposed to keep our minds sharp and active with 4 to 6 half hour sessions per week. I am finding it hard to make two or three such sessions, but I do find them interesting and stimulating. I frequently score in the 90’s. I am particularly good at questions involving numbers and fairly good at questions requiring memory, both short term and long term. I am less good on questions involving recognizing faces.
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Harold, what's the name of that computer program to keep one's mind sharp?
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Ginny and all: for more information on the Dakin Brain Fitness Machine, Click the following http://www.dakim.com
Probably about 25% of the 45 residents living here at the independent living apartments are taking advantage of this machine. A minimum of three or four a week half hour programmed sessions are recommended. I am finding it hard to make that schedule but I am making two to three times a week. I generally do well on questions involving numbers or words. I tend to do less well in memory recognition involving artistic figures or human faces. I just went up to check the spelling of the machine’s name and did a secession in which I did my highest score, 98. My last previous secession was my lowest 78. Of my six completed session four scored in the 90’s and two slipped to the 70’s.
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Both days this weekend my Time Warner on screen TV Guide for C-SPAN 2 shows almost continual “Nonfiction Books and Authors” all week end. Also Click the following C-SPAN 2 site for more information and also a number of past interviews are available for on line watching. http://www.booktv.org
In the past I have watched C-Span TV Book reviews. In recent years however I have not been able to watch since I do volunteer work on Saturday at the Institute of Texan Cultures and on Sunday at the National Park’s Mission San Francisco de la Espada site.
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CSpan2 is always all non-fiction books and authors all weekend. Check their web site (booktv.org) for specific listings.
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“Revolutionaries: A New History of the Invention of America, By Jack Rakove.” Publication date May 2010.
Ella: The ink is scarcely dry on this one, but is sure appears the kind of book we like to discuss. I heard a radio interview with the author on my way home from the Institute. Perhaps you might find an early copy in your library and comment on it. I’ll check for it at the local B & N store.
Click the following for a synopsis, publishers review and information about the arthor.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Revolutionaries/Jack-Rakove/e/9780618267460/?itm=1&USRI=Revolutionaries
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HAROLD, looks very interesting. My library bought 12 copies of it (always an indication of how popular they think the book will be). I reserved a copy and I am 17th on the list. If I get to B&N soon, which I doubt, I'll take a look.
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That's very interesting, Harold. I watched several videos of it, it would be a great thing, I think. I wish we could have something like it here, I'll scout around and see what I can find out.
Thank you Mary on the non fiction, do you know why they confine themselves to non fiction authors on Book TV?
I am enjoying so far the Men Who Would be King, already it has some surprising facts in it, it's Spielberg, Katzenberg and not Ovitz at all but rather David Geffen, a man I know nothing about, so it's going to be interesting, and already we can see Eisner's name popping up in the book.
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I don't know, ginny - just the way it is. :D
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Greetings -
I remember Brian Lamb explaining his policy for C-SPAN books several (20 or so) years ago so I may not have this exact - but it seems to me that he felt that fiction writers received attention throughout all forms of media and he wanted nonfiction to have a platform. Initially I think he also expected to limit them to biographies, history, politics and government - the issues dealt with by C-SPAN. The format was expanded to include most non fiction (science, religion, human relations) topics because they are all part of culture, laws, and life in general and are reflected in government actions and policy. When they do the In Depth programs the first weekend of each month, if the author has written fiction as well as nonfiction, I think they have discussed both. I know that Booknotes was more restrictive than Book TV in that he also only allowed an author to appear on Booknotes once.
Mary
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FYI, as a little side note...remember Mortenson's "Three Cups of Tea", about the building of schools in Afghanistan? He and a co-author have also written a children's version of that book.
My initial surprise quickly turned into 'Of course, children would like such a story'.
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The following new book was just released by the publisher: The Supreme Court: A C-SPAN Book Featuring the Justices in Their Own Words, http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Supreme-Court/C-SPAN/e/9781586488352/?itm=2&USRI=The+Supreme+Court
It will be the subject of a C-span panel discussion this week end. Saturday, I plan to leave the ITC early to catch the 4:30 PM broadcast.
Panel Discussion: Coinciding with the May 2010 release of the book "The Supreme Court: A C-SPAN Book Featuring the Justices In Their Own Words", C-SPAN and the Library of Congress are sponsoring a panel discussion that takes a look at the current Court. Participants include Associate Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, journalists Joan Biskupic of USA Today and Lyle Denniston of SCOTUS Blog, and attorney and former Rehnquist Law Clerk Maureen Mahoney.
• Saturday, May 22nd at 4:30pm (ET)
• Sunday, May 23rd at 2:30am (ET)
• Sunday, May 23rd at 9am (ET)
• Sunday, May 23rd at 10pm (ET)
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Thanks for the information, Harold. That should be an interesting discussion.
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Thanks for the heads up, Harold. I have in my library The Oxford Companion to the Supreme Court of the United States. I will be sure to tune in. The book could be an interesting addition.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Click the following for an interesting article on book selling in the future: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704448304575196172206855634.html?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs
I suspect that we are poised to see major changes in the way we buy and read books as this year and next year unfold. This article gives us a preview.
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FYI, as a little side note...remember Mortenson's "Three Cups of Tea", about the building of schools in Afghanistan? He and a co-author have also written a children's version of that book.
My initial surprise quickly turned into 'Of course, children would like such a story'.
I looked at that book, meaning to buy it for my grandchildren. Unfortunately, it was badly written -- I didn't buy it in the end.
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Oh, that's too bad, JOANK. Thanks for the tip; I won't recommend it to
friends with children in that case.
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Just jumping in with a book suggestion, although did not carefully read the past weeks, so hope it's not a duplicate.
Last week, I finished a very fine book:
The Bridge by David Remnick, a bio. of Obama but much more! Excellent writing! Link is:
http://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Life-Rise-Barack-Obama/dp/1400043603/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274802428&sr=1-1
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Yesterday while doing some house cleaning I ran across. a particular book title stored in a box in the back of a closet. The title is the “The Diary of Samuel Pepys.” I have Volumes 1, 2, and 3 of the 11 volume complete set edited by Robert Latham and William Mathews. The complete edition was released volume by volume beginning with Vol 1 in 1960 with the rest following during the 1960’s. The publisher was the University of California Press.
At the time my bookseller was Rosengrin’s Bookstore, an old style family book store on Bowie street behind the Alamo in downtown San Antonio. It is the complete text of this diary beginning in 1660 and ending in 1669 when Pepys’ failing vision forced him to discontinue it. I purchased the first three volumes as they came out and am not sure why I stopped acquiring the later volumes. I do not recall ever setting down and reading these volumes and their pristine new condition certainly confirms their previous un-read state. At the time I had read a much shorter Modern Library condensation. I’ll see how far I get, but it is the type of personal history writing that I find good bedtime reading.
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Howard, I had no idea "The Diary of Samuel Pepys" ran to 11 volumes. I
read one volume and thought that was it! I wonder if I have/had the
condensed version. I'm not even sure I still have it, but I remember it
as quaint and entertaining. I remember that gifts were exchanged
with friends on Valentine's Day back then, and a proper gift for a lady
friend was a pair of gloves...lavender, as I recall.
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MIPPY, thanks for the suggestion. I just finished reading GAME CHANGE by Heileman and Halperin which was about the candidates and their campaigns for the 2008 presidential election. I've had my fill of political realities for awhile.
Harold, I explored this briefly, you might be interested:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/about/history/
Ginny mentioned this book in the Library; it's a new book and I am jusst into it and it's good reading also: THE MEN WHO WOULD BE KING by Nicole Laporte: An almost epic tale of moguls, movies, and a company called DREAMWORKS. Three huge egos forming a company?
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Jean I note the "True Women", Janice Wood Windle Tv series is still around. Yesterday between 9:00 Pm and 1:00AM this morning the Hallmark HD Movie channel ran 4:hours of it. I did not watch it, but happened to run across it on my Time Warner on-screen TV guide. This channel runs movies generally 10 years or older.
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This morning's Wall street Journal in the Week End journal section has its Summer Book Review.
Also last night the PBS 6:09 PM News Hour had 15 minutes devoted to pending changes in book publishing resulting from digital books. Included were interviews with a N.Y. book store owner, Cathy Lanager, a publishing executive, Jonathan Galassi and a prominent Author whose name I did not recognize . Of the three the book store owner was quite optimistic that her business of selling paper bound books would remain relatively secure. The other two were much less optimistic about the future off bound paper editions. seemingly feeling that in the future most books would be digital for screen device reading. with the role of printed paper bound books significantly reduced. The Author whose name I did not recognize was much concern about the maintaining the current high author royalty payments.
In my opinion it is the bookstore owner that has the most to worry about as I fear even a 25% reduction in the number of a paper edition printing would bring hard times for conventional book stores. Also I think it is the authors that have the least to worry about. They should be able to maintain or even increase the size of their royalty checks.
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I finished Janice Woods Windle's "Will's War" yesterday. As i said before it is a fiction book, but Windles has based her three novels on her ancestors in Texas and in this one she uses the transcripts of her grandfather's trial for treason during WWI. It is very well written and a great look at how German-Americans were persecuted. Some of it is almost too eerily close to today's headlines:
".....Arthur recognized Rudolph Tschoepe. Until recent weeks he had been a highly respected member of the State Legislature. He had come to American from Germany w/ his parents when he was 4 yrs old. Now, half a century later, he was ousted from the Legislature because he couldn not prove he was an American citizen. Yet, no man Arthur knew was more loyal to American than Rep. Tschoepe. The faceless enemy was on the march. "
Other German-Americans had much more serious actions taken against them, including torching of their houses and businesses and being assaulted and sometimes killed.
The closing argument by the defensive atty for Will Bergfeld, the protagonist and Windle's grandfather, is one of the most compelling statements about protecting the right of free speech and association, etc. that i have ever read in literature. Since Windle had 1000,s of pages of trial transcript, my perception is that it was exactly as William Atwell, the defense atty, stated it at the time. He, later, had a distinguished career as a U.S. District Judge in Dallas and wrote in his autobiography that "In many respects, this was one of the most remarkable trials ever held in America."
I tho't the book was well-written, compelling, and gave us an important piece of Amer'n history that is often overlooked....................jean
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All four of my paternal great grand parents had migrated from Germany during the 1850’s. At the time of WW I the extended family was living in San Antonio TX. The family then consisted of 3 of the 4 original immigrant ancestors, at least 6 or 7 first generation descendant families born in the U.S. , and well over a dozen 2nd generation U.S. born grand children. My father and his cousins comprised the latter group. All the living immigrant ancestors had become fluent in English and all their first Generation off spring was fluent in both English and German. The second native born generation had some knowledge of German but based on my father, it was definitely a second language.
Emphatically, there is absolutely no tradition of discrimination against them because of their Germanic roots. I think this fact is illustrated by some 1918 family pictures taken of my father and 3 of his cousins in “the new dodge” in San Pedro Park. Three of the four are in their khaki U.S. Army uniforms home on leave prior to assignment in France. Only my father was in civilian dress. He was 4-F for some reason. Whatever it was it must not have been much as he lived a rather healthy life dying at 90 in 1986.
I don’t doubt that there was some isolated discrimination against German citizens during WWI. but I don’t think it was at all widespread, like it had been during the Civil War when there were instances of lynching of German residents opposing succession. At the time only one of my Great grandparent families were in Texas. Again there is no family record of harassment. This Great Grandfather and his family (Last name Schlick) lived in Texas throughout the Civil War without harassment or military service. He died in 1874 so he was not around during WW I.
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Harold - this story was in Seguin, (pronounced Sea-geen), Texas and Weinert, Texas. She mentions in her end notes that Will Bergfeld never spoke German again after the trial. I suppose the yrs from 1914 - 1946 could have been sketchy for some G-Amer'ns in some places. Many of my ancestors were from Germany, but they had come in the late 1700's or early 1800's, and lived in Pa where there were many of German ancestry, so i doubt they had much trouble.....................jean
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It's been awhile since I have read a good nonfiction book. I've tried several but they didn't hold my interest very long. Any suggestions? A good biography or autobiography? History?
Oh, certainly some of you have read a good one!
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Ella, how about the biography of Frances Perkins (FDR's Sect'y of Labor); The Immoral Life of Henrietta Lacks, by Rebecca Skloot; The Race Beat (about the role of the media in the Civil Rights Movement). I've read these this year, and liked all of them.
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Thanks, Mary. I'll look them up in my library, I'm going today if I ever get started here!
We discussed Frances Perkins in this book by Kirsten Downey. Weren't you with us? LOok:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=587.0
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Ella, I'm sure this is where I originally heard about the book, but I didn't participate in the discussion - I think I read the book later.
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I read "Troublesome Young Men" by Lynne Olson and enjoyed it so much. Just picked up her latest "Citizens of London, The Americans Who Stood with Britain in its Darkest, Finest Hour" and am looking forward to some interesting reading.
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Let us know, FLAJEAN! That book was on the display table at my Library not long ago and I almost brought it home, but I had my book bag full by the time I saw it. She writes well; holds your interest.
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I’ve been evaluating Book readers. Do any of you here use one of these devises that seem to becoming increasingly popular? I think my options are narrowing down between the Apples I-Pad and the Kindle DX, since I really want the larger 9.5 inch diagonal screen that both of these provide. Both the I-Pad and Kindle DX offer this larger screen and both offer much more than simple book reading. Right now I am leaning for the Apple since it seems to offer much more browsing resources then the DX whose $489.00 price tag approaches the cost of the I-Pad. Also with the use of downloadable App software both can read books from the Apple, B&N and Amazon.com stores.
Any comment from users or want to be users of any of these products are appropriate.
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Harold, I have a Kindle 2. I got it because I have trouble holding large books - or even paperbacks for any length of time. I really like mine - and don't care about doing anything with it other than reading. It's great for travel - I only have to take it, and don't have to worry about running out of something read. I don't feel the need for a larger screen - maybe if I read newspapers or magazines on it, I would - but that's not an issue for me, either.
My only complaints would be that I can only buy from Amazon, and that I can't easily share books. One of our daughters and I share an Amazon account, so we can read each other's books. But I can't just pass it on to a friend - even one who has a Kindle.
Good luck with your research.
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I think I mentioned in a different forum that I have an iPad and love it. You do have to download iTunes (which is free) to your computer. You "sinc" the iPad to your computer through iTunes. Since it was a gift from my husband, he bought me the one that is capable of 3G cellular. However, I haven't subscribed yet as so many places now have wifi. I also have the cover and am very pleased with it. It's nice having access to email, Internet and the MAPs app when we travel. If we take a long trip, I plan on subscribing to 3G with ATT.
I downloaded "Persuasion" (free) as well as several other books. It is so easy to make the print larger or smaller by simply using your thumb and finger. You just have to touch the page to turn it--amazing.
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of course I have talked at length about my Kindle...It is the first one out though, Harold. I can also read anything that I have on it on my computer too. It saves my place on the kindle and on the computer. I can read for many long hours now on my computer. I hreally enjoy the Kindle and haven't found anything that I want to purchase that I cannot obtain from Amazon....If it is not on Kindle at Amazon then other place sees to have for their electronic reader. Of course each person must decide what is right for their needs.So I will only say that the Kindle has been such a huge blessing to me. Joan Grimes
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I have a Kindle 2, and love it! Especially the fact that if a good book is reccomended, I can "buy" and download a book in about 1 minute. My hands both have arthritis, and my K is much easier for me to hold. Finally, I have around 100 books available in my "home" catagory. At this point in life, I may well die, before I have read all of them.
At Christmas time last year, I bought the K-2, and gave my K-1 to my dil who is a reader, too. She ended up getting my book list at the time. At the same time, all of my books on the K-1, were transfered from the K-1, to the K-2.
The thing I miss the most, is being able to pass a book on to one of my children, or a friend. Another feature thing that I like is I can get a sample, of a book, free, to see if I like the writing style.
Harold, I am curious about the IPad. After buying my first Kindle, I swore that I would not buy anymore, new technology. What features do you like about the ipad? Can you give me a breakdown of what it will do? I would appreciate knowing more.
Sheila
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>Harold, I am curious about the IPad. After buying my first Kindle, I swore that I would not buy anymore, new technology. What features do you like about the ipad? Can you give me a breakdown of what it will do? I would appreciate knowing more.
Shelia: Principally I want the larger 9.5 diagonal screen and would value the added capability to do more than just read books as a small note book computer. Of the best known readers from Amazon.com, B&N and Apple, the two models that appear to qualify are the I-Pad, and Kindle DX. Bothe of these appear capable with the aid of free App (Software) of reading books purchased from the major on line book stores, Amazon.com, B&N, and the Apple store. Both of these also appear capable of reading E-mail and general Web browsing either through Wi-Fi and 3G model. The Apple I-Pad has been widely accepted by the Market since its release earlier this year. In comparison there is not much actual reporting concerning the Kindle DX. Both of the products are pricy but the $489 DX Base Price tag is just a few dollars less than the I-Pad making a decision to go with the popular choice seem the wise one.
The following is a recent Walt Mossberg, WSJ column concerning the I-Pad.
http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20100331/apple-ipad-review/
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Harold, thank you for the information. Here is something which I plan to watch on TV, which might interest you, and others. Sunday morning at 6:00 a.m., CSPAN 2 will be showing a panel discussion on the next decade in book culture; the effects if electronic reading devices.
Sheila
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thanks, Sheila -I checked the booktv web site - that program will be on at 4 p.m. ET today, followed by an interview with Pat Conroy. :D
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The program, BOOK EXPO AMERICA, I think it was called, a panel discussion concerning ebooks and how they will affect the future, was just on my C-Span. Scott Turow, the incoming president of Authors Guild, was on it, plus 4 or 5 representatives from booksellers, publishers and the like. Most of them agreed it is an evolving strategy of getting readership and no one knows how it will play out in 5-10 years. The whole thing - libraries, bookstores, warehousing, and on and on, jobs, librarians - all in a flux.
Turow, particularly, was very concerned about author's profits; certainly we want them to continue, otherwise we would not get the quality of books we have today.
Gosh, it's been a long while since I've read a Turow book. I think I picked one up a year or so ago and it seemed too long to read or something.
HAROLD, what did you end up getting?
It does seem a little silly to pay $500 for a gadget in order to pay just $9 for a book, hahahahaa! Of course, that is not the idea.
I think I would like one eventually because you can change the text to a larger print and maybe you can change the text to a bolder one?
There are books I will not read because the print is too fine. Of course, it is an age thing; one I live with. I will probably end up buying one in the near future.
Then there is GOOGLE who is doing something, I didn't understand it exactly, but the fellow said Google will be coming out with their own ebook reader in the future!
WOW, competition will help, don't you think?
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Oh, yeah, competition always helps, ELLA. So, I think, does time. You know, things always
cost more when they are still a novelty and 'the latest thing'.
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I have not made a decision on a book reader. I have been reading several rather comprehensive reviews on the Apple I-pad and the Kindle DX an find both have their short comings. For example with the I pad there is no way for the reader to highlight or otherwise note important excerpts of text for future reference. Also Apple could have done much better in providing for user connectivity to other computer components. One obvious inclusion would be one or more USB access plugs on the chassis. As a book reader the I-Pad seems to have other short comings. It strong points seem centered on its use as a sofa toy for general web browsing, E-mail music and movies.
As a Book reader the Kindle DX might be the best, but it too certainly has its shortcomings . To me the ability to highlight and make notes on important points is essential for both Dl’s and discussion Participants. The DX appears to have this capability; however, the small screen keyboard would make extensive text inclusions tedious. Another principal problem with this Kindle noted in the reviews is the absence of quick and easy navigation to another chapter or another page in the book.
So I am still looking but a decision to make a purchase is still at least several weeks away.
Read the Following Reviews:
I Pad: http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/03/apple-ipad-review/ If this is not clickable copy this addres and past it in your browser to open.
Kindle Dx: http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/19/kindle-dx-review/
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/2010/02/21/amazon-kindle-dx-review.html/
If this is not clickable copy this address and past it in your browser to open.
And longer and more Comprehensive: http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/19/kindle-dx-review/
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I've been wanting to read Robert Caro's Master of the Senate, about LBJ's years in the US Senate. I've always heard that it was also a great history of the institution of the Senate and the way it works. It finally became available on Kindle, and I got it last week. I've only gotten through the Introduction and am into Chapter One. The history is fascinating! But I'm not sure I'm going to be able to read this book.
Does this man not have an editor???!!!?!?! I've just come across this ONE sentence!!!! Don't feel obligated to read the whole thing.
With the dawn of the new century, the public’s demand for an end to trusts and to the high protective tariff that was “the mother of trusts,” the tariff that robbed farmers and gouged consumers, and that had now been in place for almost fifty years - the demand, for legislation to ameliorate the injustices of the Industrial Revolution, that had begun to rise during the Gilded Age, only to be thwarted in part by the Senate - began to rise faster, fed by the books of Jacob Riis and Lincoln Steffens and Theodore Dreiser and a hundred other authors; by the new mass-circulation magazines, which, in the very first years of the twentieth century, educated America about the manipulations of Standard Oil and stirred its conscience to the horrors of sweatshops and child labor (in 1900, almost two million boys and girls were working, often alongside their mothers, all the daylight hours seven days a week in rooms in which there might not be a single window); and by the Populist and Grange movements, which gave farmers insight into the power that railroads and banks had over their lives, and into their helplessness against them.
A
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Sorry, I meant to add this, but couldn't get it into the "reply" window.
This sentence isn't even the only one in the paragraph! If this whole book is filled with these, there's no way I'll be able to wade through the convoluted prose. @#$%#%@
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That's too bad, MARYZ. It sounds like this could have been an interesting
book, with reasonable control.
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George got after me long, long ago about my long sentences (never THAT long). He of the PhD in Reading Ed. told me that more than 15 words in a sentence and people start to lose track of what is being said. Seems a little low, but if you are writing for a high school level or below, maybe.
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That's ridiculous, MARYZ. I agree, I couldn't sustain interest in a book that read like that. I know LBJ was a powerhouse in the Senate. There must be other biographies that, while not as good as Caro, would satisfy?
HAROLD, I never thought of highlighting on a Kindle. I would need to do that in a book discussion. Can you cut/paste possibly into another document that might hold your notes? As you can see, I know nothing about them!!
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Ella, the Kindle is not a computer - you don't have a cursor. You can make a note that will record in another section, which you can change to, but not at the same time you have the text showing. At least that's the case with the Kindle 2. I don't know about the Kindle DX.
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MaryZ: Proust got away with sentances like that, but no one since should be able too. In graduate school, to earn some money, I once took a job with a German professor who couldn'tunderstand why no one was reading his papers. He thought I could make them "more American. His sentances were even longer and more conveluted than yours. My editing consisted mainly in breaking each sentance into 5 or 6 short ones. I kept telling him "one idea, one sentance, Dr. Muller"! but he never "got it".
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Maryz & all- regarding Robert Caro's Master of the Senate, I also have a copy. Though I have never read it in its entirety, I have used it many times as a research source mostly in connection with our book discussions. I had never before realized that Robert Caro was prone to writing extremely long sentences like the one in the illustration. True sentences that long are often incomprehensible. However, for me when reading it, it’s use of colons and other punctuation marks seemed to break it up in understandable segments. In any case I remember in college reading writings by John Mansard Keynes . He seemed to use extremely long sentences in long paragraphs requiring great effort for an understanding.
Also Maryz, the Kindle DX is in many ways a computer. It and the Apple I-Pad constitute the first commercial offerings of a new type of computer termed “Tablet Computers.” This new technology is being discussed at the All things Digital Conference currently in progress in San Francisco. Yesterday’s Wall Street Journal included an entire section concerning the agenda of this conference. It included the text of an interview with Steve Jobs on this tablet Computer’s “Past, Present, and Future.” Steve Job argues that the convenience of the wireless hand held 10 inch screened wireless powered by its 10 hour battery made powerful by a multitude of free or cheap software products (Apps) will in time make the home desk top computer and even note book computers obsolete. Walt Mossberg, the WSJ Technical editor in his March 31, column pretty much agreed that the current Apple I pad comes close to achieving this end. Click the following for the Mossberg, March 31, 2010 article:
http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20100331/apple-ipad-review/
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One of the nice things about waiting for a year or two for the later models is that they've had time to work out the bugs and respond to customer complaints.
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Good Lord, Mary you're right "get that man an editor!" ..........when i worked for Dept of Army, in the early 90's they were training their officers in writing w/ clarity. The rule was 10 sentences to a paragraph and 15 words to a sentence. Maybe Caro should take that training..... :D............. I do love to hear him talk about LBJ and his work on tv. He is enthralled w/ his subject, which makes him interesting to listen to, but apparently is too much for his writing skills. .............. jean
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Harold, the last of this month, Apple is going to add notes (using the keyboard which is very easy to use) and bookmarks to the iPad iBook app.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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Post by HAROLD:
Regarding the Book readers I expect I will purchase one before the end of the summer. It will probably be the I-Pad. For now yesterday I purchased a digital book from B&N for reading on my desktop. I downloaded the no cost APP software that enables me to read the Kindle coding on my desktop PC. I set the font size at 14 point making it quite easy to read from about 2 feet from the screen using my computer glasses.
The book is one Ella has mentioned before, “The big burn” by Timothy Egan. Its cost was $10.99. Yesterday I Read in an hour some 75 pages of the almost 1200 total pages. I was quite comfortable sitting relaxed in my office style swizzle chair. I even highlighted pages with discussion points should we ever do a discussion. So we don’t really need to buy an additional hardware reader to read books on line. Amazon too and probably the Apple store too can provide the APP software necessary to read books on the PC that are purchased from them.
Click the following for the B&N E-book Page. There are 3 free titles available:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ebooks/index.asp
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That's great Harold. Let me know how you like the book; the first half of the book was very interesting, but it bogged down toward the latter half. Maybe it's just me?
I just posted a nonfiction book I finished in the Library, a really good book, by Harvey Bernstein. Titled A DREAM, it's nonfiction and if you think you know anything about poverty, you don't until you read this!
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This is the article ADOANNIE mentioned in her last post here, proudly we hail:
http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/883793-264/2010_library_of_the_year.html.csp
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I have a copy of "The Big Burn", on my K2. I really like the way Timothy Egan writes. I have read, enjoyed and learned a lot from his book: "The Worst Hard Time". It is about life during the dust bowl, and the depression. IMO, it is an excellent book.
Sheila
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Sheila, I read that book also. It was very good.
I think it's okay to put this here. It's not a book, but there have been books written about it! This is the way it was: Click here:
http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=S4KrIMZpwCY
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I've watched that video (above) of Henry Ford's cars for the third time now and see something new every time. Notice tht all the men are wearing hats - while working!
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That's such an interesting video, Ella. You got me interested more in the clothing than the cars! Only a small handful of the men did not have hats on. The others wore all kinds of hats and caps. Some of the guys wore what looked like regular working clothes but quite a few were wearing vests and even suits and ties as they worked on various aspects of building the cars. I wonder if the manner of dress was part of a feeling of what was "proper."
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Thank you Ella for the Henry Ford Film. It was most interesting particularly the shots of the model T production line. A couple of months back I saw an hour long TV biography of Henry Ford. I think it was a late night of week endshowing on the CNBC business network.
I will probably out or touch during the weekend as I will be working both Saturday and Sunday at the Texas Folklife Festival. I'll be at the Texas Indian Exhibit on Saturday and at the chuck wagon Sunday. Ill check in again on Monday.
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I did get the book FORDLANDIA from the Library some time ago, but didn't read it and I can't remember why I didn't; perhaps the print was too fine. That does happen. Has anyone read it? My copy/paste is not working, darn!
"The stunning, never before told story of the quixotic attempt to recreate small-town America in the heart of the Amazon In 1927, Henry Ford, the richest man in the world, bought a tract of land twice the size of Delaware in the Brazilian Amazon."
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I liked Lynne Olson's Throublesome Young Men, but I'm finding Citizens of London by Olson very interesting and am learning history that was never covered in my high school or college history classes.
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FlaJean, I am glad to read that you are enjoying "Citizens of London". I have a copy, but have not yet started it. Earlier today, I was wondering what to read next, as soon as I finish one of the books that I am now reading. Your message points me to CoL, next.
Sheila
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I brought home several good books, nonfiction, from the Library but they all have fine print and that is getting distressingly difficult for me. I'm going to get stronger lens (at the drugstore) and if that doesn't work for these eyes I am forced to use then it will be large print books only.
My book club is reading MAYFLOWER by Nathaniel Philbrick and, perhaps, I can get a large print of that, or read a chapter or two a night.
STARBUCKED by Taylor Clark about that company, its past and future. Looks very good.
HEART LIKE WATER: Surviving Katrina and life in its disaster zone, a memoir by Joshua Clark also looks great. The print in this one is a bit bolder so maybe I can read it. This author is a key correspondent for National Public RAdio and stayed in New Orleans during the disaster recording hundreds of hours of conversations.
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This is hard to believe and I'm not sure I am reading this correctly.
http://www.amazon.com/Starbucked-Double-Caffeine-Commerce-Culture/dp/B003H4RECS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276615190&sr=1-1
Can it be true that a Kindle costs over $9; a hardcover .50 and a paperback $5?
That's unbelieveable. What is happening in the book world?
You can read quite a lot of the book onlline.
Have you ever bought one of those expensive drinks at Starbucks? Why? Somewhere in this book it explains that they are no better than their inexpensive coffees. Just coffee with a college education, hahahaa
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Ella order the book from Amazon.com or B&N online and download the free APP software and read them in any size font on"your PC screen. I am finding the reading of the "Big Burn" rather easy. Though I have not read since Friday. Its really quite good maybe easier on the PC if large fonts are necessary than on the dedicate reader appliances.
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It must be a misprint, ELLA. If you 'save' $9.71, then the correct price
must be $35.28. The three got lost.
I don't like coffee, so naturally I've never been in a Starbucks. I still
wondered why people were paying such high prices for a cup of coffee. The company obviously has a marketing director who understands how to catch the public fancy.
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Babi, Starbucks also happens to make very good coffee, a commodity not always available elsewhere.
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joyous, have you gotten a new email address? We tried to send our Books newsletter to your aol address but we got a "no such email account" message. When you see this message would you please email webmaster@seniorlearn.org with your email address (please mention your old joynclarence address too so that we make the change for the right person)? Thanks!
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I hope JOYOUS sees the message, Marcie!
From not having any nonfiction to read I have a surplus and I may have to take a couple back to the library unread, but I shall get them again.
The STARBUCKED book is more than just the history of company; it goes into the culture of chains and their inflluence on our habits, etc.
Starbucks is another mammoth chain - an international chain. JUST HUGE. And it has happened so quickly! They must have copied McDonalds' successful strategies. In my area they have stuck to just the coffees and a few pastries, not many, but who knows when they will introduce sandwiches, blah, blah!
Today I picked up P.D.James A FRAGMENT OF AUTOBIOGRAPHY, after reading one of her mysteries which I enjoy. It also looks very good.
Forget the KATRINA book, I am sure there are better books on the subject.
BABI, I looked again at that clickable to Amazon books in my post above and that book is a Bargain Book and the prices quoted are correct, $9 approx. for a Kindle book, $1.50 for a hardcover.
HAROLD, I don't want to sit in front of my computer to read a book, NO, NO, NO. But thanks for the suggestion! (My chair is not as comfy as your own, apparently!)
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Marcie: Thanks for thinking of me.
Previously, I was joynclarence@aol.com------now I am joynclarence@att.net. I am also joyous, as you already know.
Anything else??????I am now reading Bernstein's Dream book and
liking it!
JOY(ous)
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Is that the name of the book, JOY? The author?
Is it a biography of Leonard Bernstein?
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I've never gotten comfortable with reading a book online. Part is the chair: part something about the experience that is so different from a book. It's a shame: there is so much available online.
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Well for some people there is not much choice . Either read a book online or give up reading books... I am one of those...I have the kindle and the Kindle on my pc...The kindle on my pc is really wonderful to me... I love reading a book that way now...You get used to what you have to when you have eye problems...Joan Grimes
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Thank you very much for the information about your email, Joyous. We appreciate that.
It sounds like you are likely reading The Dream: A Memoir (http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Memoir-Random-Readers-Circle/dp/0345503899/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276888574&sr=1-1) by Harry Bernstein. He was 98 when the book was published!
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Ella: Marcie answered correctly (for me). It is: The Dream, by Harry
Bernstein. He also wrote The Living Wall (I think that is the title).
Thanks, Marcie ;)
JOY
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Thanks for suggesting those books, Joy.
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I just finished watching the "Founding Fathers Friday" on Glen Beck show. Oh yeah, I know some of you will boo and hiss. Every Friday Beck does a history of the Founding Fathers which usually includes discussing with their authors books about the Founding Fathers and or the events surrounding the Revolution. Occasionally, he includes Lincoln in the discussion. No he doesn't beat up on the Dems or Obama on Fridays.
Today he had Bruce Feiler on his show. They primarily discussed Feiler's new book is called The Council of Dads: My Daughters, My Illness, and the Men Who Could Be Me (Father's Day is Sunday). http://www.amazon.com/Council-Dads-Daughters-Illness-Could/dp/0061778761/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276898938&sr=1-1
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Did you know that Glenn Beck has now written a novel.. It is on Kindle...I have not bought it as I am not a fan of his...but who knows it could be good I guess. After all it is fiction...He should be good at that...you can find it on Amazon if you are interested. I was not interested but to each his own...Joan Grimes
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Yes, I heard Joan. I haven't checked into it yet. It doesn't sound that appealling to me. Here is the Wikipedia link to what an Overton Window is (a part of political theory). It was a little easier to understand when Beck described it this week on one of his shows because he used a blackboard diagram.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
Link to the book description:
http://www.amazon.com/Overton-Window-Glenn-Beck/dp/1439184305/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276904158&sr=1-2
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I might try Glenn Beck's OVERTON WINDOW, just out of curiosity, altho' I can't stand that man's politics.
A conservative right-winger's book I did really like was Newt Gingrich's PEARL HARBOR; A NOVEL OF DECEMBER 8. No politics in it. Tells the story of the Pearl Harbor invasion from the Japanese point of view. Very interesting.
Marj
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I want to read MATTERHORN; A NOVEL OF THE VIETNAM WAR by Karl Mariantes. Altho' it's fiction, it was reviewed very glowingly at BookTV and will be repeated next Sunday, June 27. The author was a Vietnam veteran, and apparently many who served there have very much liked the book. It has gotten good reviews at Amazon also. During the interview, the author talked about how much the army has changed, for the better, since that war. Has anyone read it?
Marj
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Book Readers New Price Announced Today
Amazon.com
Kindle 2: $189.00 (Reduced about $50.00)
Kindle DX: $489.00 (No Change)
B &N
Nook, Wi-Fi only) $149.00 (Reduced about $50.00
Nook, 3 g & Wi-Fi $199.00 Reduced about $50.00
There is a good article in the Wall Street Journal this morning analyzing the possible effect on book reading and on the industry resulting from these price decreases. Obviously the lower cost of the reader coupled with the lower cost of digital books has the potential to accelerate the reading of books, news papers and magazines with these new devices.
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People still read newspapers; in Columbus, Ohio apparently. Yesterday there was an article on our op-ed page by Cal Thomas, who writes for Tribune Media Services concerning a book he considers a must-read. DIETRICH BONHOEFFER: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy by Eric Metaxas, a brilliant biography, according to Thomas, about the man who gave his life in a failed plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler. Bonhoeffer came from a family of inellectuals, held in high regard in Germany, and I was surprised to learn that he twice visited the United States, studying at one time at the liberal Union Theological Seminary in New York.
I am 53rd on the list for the book at my library; I may purchase a copy.
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The book sounds interesting, Ella. I never heard of Cal Thomas or Bonhoeffer. One of my libraries has it on order, though.
Marj
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Those of you who participated in our discussion of TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN by Lynn Olson may be interested in the following paragraph from the book THE SISTERS: The Saga of the Mitford Family by Mary S. Lovell. It is an observation that I have never heard before and it follows from an incident in 1936 wherein Winston Churchill and his family, upon hearing of Diana Mitford's friendship with Adolf Hitler, invited her to dinner and she made the suggestion that Winston and Adolf, having much in common in her opinion, should meet. (She may be the only person in history to know both men well). There follows this paragraph:
"It is tempting to wonder what might have happened had Diana been able to arrange a meeting. Might the war, which tore Europe part, have been prevented? Hitler was pro-England, and had made a stufy of its culture and history. He was especially fascinated by the ability of such a small nation to control and apparently subjugate a vast empire containing millions of people. He regarded this as evidence of the superiority of Aryan race and it is widely considered that this was what saved the United Kingdom from invasion. When Nazi chiefs of staff were poised and ready to strike, at a time when Britain was at its most vulnerable, Hitler hesitated to give the order until the moment was lost."
We discussed various reasons why Hitler did not cross the England Channel when he had the opportunity to do so; it's always remained a mystery to me.
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Ella, interesting paragraph. Was there any more information or incite to that event? I sure would like to know what Churchill said at her suggestion.
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Quoting from the book: Churchill said - "Oh, no. NO." That last "no" all in caps seems to say that he was thinking and then he emphatically blurted out out his No. Churchill was not the man at the time that he later became. He had made a few diastrous mistakes in WWI and was retired from public life. His family and the Mitfords were related somehow, there is a family tree in the book but I can't figure it out, don't care to.
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Thanks, Ella.
BTW, sorry for the misspelling of insight (incite) - two different things entirely. :-[
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I think we can forgive you Frybabe, haha. I have two fingers on my left hand which are numb and my rheumatologist says the nerves leading to them are dying, isn't that a nice thing to hear, my nerves are dying! But it plays havoc with my typing at times!
THOSE MITFORD SISTERS! One of them, Jessica, lived in America for years, was a communist and was very active in the CRC, the Civil Rights Congress, which paid for the defense of a black man ( Willie McGhee) accused of raping a white woman (a decade later the book TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD was published). Reading that chapter in the book was reminiscent of Senator Joseph McCarthy and his witch hunt for all those suspected communists that seemed to go on forever years ago.
The McGee case, which resulted in his electrocution, might have turned out differently if the NAACP had come to his defense, but at the time these two groups were in contention.
While at the book store the other day, I had to buy the book THE EYES OF WILLIE MCGEE by Alex Heard who has worked as an editor and writer at the New York Times Magazine and other publications.
And one book leads to another.....
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Didn't Jessica Mitford write The Amer'n Way of Death? I didn't know seh was a communist and a muckraker, etc. I only knew about the book, was that in the 70's?........i'll have to google her, or wikidpedia (is that the term? ;D) her................jean
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Hello Jean! Yes, she did. This site tells you much about Jessica Mitford (called Decca by her family).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Mitford
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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I stopped into the used bookstore this morning hoping to find an interesting biography to read. I only came out with Micheal Grant's Readings in the Classical Historians. I did look at a bio of Adrienne de Lafayette, wife of the Marquis de Lafayette that looked interesting, but I didn't pick it up. I wanted to look her up first. I think I will go back for it tomorrow.
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I picked up Anthony Bourdain's new book Medium Raw at Barnes and Noble yesterday, made the mistake of looking at the first page and was hooked, actually sat down and read a couple of chapters: he's SUCH a good writer and takes you right into the world of haute cuisine, and a professional chef in a heartbeat. This one apparently also hits on the celebrity TV chefs and tells us more than we want to know about why not to get the waiter or chef angry at you: squeamish alert.
USA Today says: "The kind of book you read in one sitting, then rush about annoying your co workers by declaiming whole passages. Bourdain captures the world of restaurants and professionally cooked food in all its theatrical, demented glory."
I actually don't like the man, nor his TV program, nor his first book but apparently he's mellowed with age and a family: you can't stop reading his book, it's really quite good, so far.
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I'd like to hear more about the "Readings in the Classical Historians", FRYBABE. Is it a collection
of excerpts? Which classical historians? Please let me know what you think of it...interesting or
dry?
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Babi, Readings is a selection of translated writings from 22 classical historians (I counted them) up through the late Roman Empire. Grant made the selections and wrote introductions. A few are from his own translations. The list: Hecataeus and Hellanicus, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Polybius, Julius Caesar, Nepos, Diodorus Siculus, Sallust, Livy, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Velleius Paterculus, Josephus, St. Luke, Plutarch, Tacitus, Seutonius, Appian, Arrian, Dio Cassius, Eusebius, and Ammianus Marcellinus. No doubt some of these we have run across in Latin lessons. As for Livy, Caesar, and Tacitus, I have them, and had read Plutarch's Lives long ago. I won't know until I get into it if any of those are new material to me.
Michael Grant wrote a tremendous number of books covering, it looks like, the span of ancient Greek history up to the beginnings of the Middle Ages. He also, like this one, edited or revised about a half dozen books and translated about the same number of books. It is a real wonder to me how I never managed to acquire any of his books, except for this and his translation of Tacitus: The Annals of Rome. Anyone interested in his titles, Wikipedia has a large list, but very little on the man himself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grant_%28author%29
I really need to check into his title Sick Caesars and his autobiography.
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I'm in my glory! I've just contracted to present six 90min presentations on history of women in the U.S. It will be at a Quaker sponsored senior community nearby. A retired num who went to live at the community 13 yrs ago felt they needed more intellectual stimulation so she suggested that they start a "university" and she organized - w/ a committe, of course, it is Quaker-based after all........ ;) - a full year of schedule of programs, lectures, seminars etc. for the residents of the community and it continues today.
I had gone to an Elderhostel/Expoitas/Road Scholars (i understand that's their new name) program in Apr at their facility and thru the weeks i heard sevl of the attendees say they didn't know much women's history, so I gave the organizer a proposal for the presentations, just for the community, not for Elderhostel. That's when i learned about their local "university."
It's not until next April, but my favorite part of teaching is researching, so i've already begun to research my sources. So far i know i will be using History of Women in America by Hymowitz and Weissman. It's a wonderful survey history which was published in 1978, but stilll holds up. I'm also rereading Cokie Roberts Founding Mothers and I'm using The Reader's Companion to U.S. Women's History which was publsd in 1998 and has 100's of contributors about every aspect of women's history. My children gave it to me on Mother's Day and i've just begun to ease my way into its 650 pages. I will be trying to include much about NJ and Quaker women since i think many of the participants will enjoy that, so i have to go back in my files and dig out some speeches/lectures i have given in the past..................can you tell i am in high clover??? (good ole farmer's term from my Father's lips) .................. i'm sure you will hear more about it from me come next April...............lol ..........jean
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Congratulations, Jean. Sounds like a busy, fun year ahead - just the sort of thing I'd love to do ('specially the research) but I don't know if I could manage an entire series.
I was recently asked to do my "Land Run Lady" Historical Interpretation character at a local Book Club next May. The program chairman is a good friend and I told her I'd love to - assuming I'm still buying green bananas by then. :D
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mabel1015j, how exciting that you will be offering a series of lectures on the history of women. If you want to try out any of your material, I'm sure that some of us would love to be your "test subjects." ;) I, for one, would love to learn more about this topic. Quite a few people like to research topics on the web and I'll bet some of us would help you if you want any help with that too.
Callie, I'd love to see your "Land Run Lady"!
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Good suggestion, Marcie. I'd be willing to be a "test subject" and/or try to do some research.
I enjoyed writing the fictional "Miz Callie Johnston". For some of the stories she tells I used information from letters and diaries of real "89'ers", as we call people who settled in this area in the Land Run of 1889. I discovered that one of my references was an ancestor of a neighbor!
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jean, where is your program, and what dates? I'd love to come!!!! Is it going to be listed in the Roads Scholar program?
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Callie, do you read the Miz Callie stories that you wrote from your research and/ or perform them?
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Oh, my, FRYBABE, I didn't mean to put you to all that trouble. But having seen your list of
historians I am very interested in reading the book. There is nothing like reading the words
of the people who were there! Thank you so much.
JEAN, how exciting! 90-min. presentations?! You have a lot of serious work ahead of you.
Don't forget to include break time. ;) I wonder whether our senior center would get a good
response to a program of lectures and seminars. We seem to run more to games and crafts. The Quakers have always been a very socially responsible group, haven't they? Enjoy!
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Marcie, I "perform" Miz Callie in first person from a script that I wrote and I wear a pioneer dress and sunbonnet. The beginning and the ending are the same. In between, there are various "stories" I can either use or omit - depending on the age of the group to whom I'm talking and the time limitation for the performance.
This type of performance is considered a Living History Interpretation instead of a Living History Reenactment because my character is fictional. I made her up and wrote the script years ago when I was a volunteer for the local historical society/museum and did classroom presentations.
I must admit that doing the research and writing the script was as much - maybe more - fun than "performing". I am NOT a professional - or an actress - by any stretch of the imagination and Miz Callie is just something I occasionally do for fun - mostly for local clubs needing a program and, sometimes, for a classroom presentation.
I have to watch carefully so I don't slip out of first person - 'specially when I'm talking to kids and they ask questions that have to be answered as if it's 1889 and I obviously wouldn't know about modern things - like cars. I had to think fast when a boy asked, "How did you get here (the school) today?" :D
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Thanks for all the offers to help w/ the women's history program. I'd love to "test" it on here, but am not sure how that would work. In terms of helping w/ research, my problem is not going to be finding material, i have most of the material i need for content, in fact, the problem is going to be deciding what to eliminate. 540 minutes sounds like a lot of time, but it really isn't when you think about all the possible events and women through U.S. history - 3 centuries!!! I've already decided i can't do much more than a superficial skim about Native American women and will concentrate on the social and political power they had in the tribes, as opposed to the legal non-entity that was European women's plight. The Clan Mothers of the Iroquois Confederacy had much to say about who would be chief, when they would go to war, imput into peace treaties, etc. In fact, women were a part of the Confederacy discussion about which side they would fight for in the American Revolution!!! ..............And the Europeans considered them "uncivilized"??? .............. What would you like to know about Native American and colonial women? Maybe that's a way you can help me decide what to put in and what to leave out............jean
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Callie, how interesting. I haven't witnessed a living history interpretation before. It's wonderful that you've been able to create and perform that character for various audiences.
Mabel1015j, you're right that there must be a great deal of material that could be included in your presentation. I don't envy you the task of deciding what you'll include. I'll think about it a bit to see what I would like to learn about Native American and Colonial women.
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Jean - where are you going to give this program? Aren't you in North Carolina? Is it going to be in the fall?
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JEAN, THAT SOUNDS WONDERFUL FOR YOU! I know how much you like the subject and I know you will do well! For some odd reason that I can't explain to myself, native Americans and their history, women, men, chiefs, wars, etc. have never been of interest to me. I know the tribes fought each other long before the Europeans came and, like all humans that live together, they had communities in which children and women were taken care of which has always been true, don't you think? It only stands to reason that women were respected as we are the future, the mothers of all who come after.
CALLIE, that's very interesting to hear about also! What talents we have on our site, hidden talents, and all because we love learning, we love books.
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Mary - not NC, but NJ, just outside of Philadelphia. It won't be a Roads Scholar course, but any one who's interested can come. However, it's one day a week for 6 wks, a different kind of schedule than a Roads Scholar course usually is. .............
Callie - i'm sure you've had a good time doing interpretation. Is the character a frontier woman?...............jean
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Well, phooey, jean - I surely would love to sit in on your program. Oh, well..... :'(
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Jean, I would love to be there for each one of your presentations. I've been to 9 Elderhostels (including a different intergenerational one with each of my three grandchildren) and I enjoyed each one so much.
However, I'm not at all familiar with the new name/program. Is it like the former Elderhostel?
I consider "Miz Callie" a Pioneer Woman but I suppose you could call her "Frontier" - although that makes me think of someone who wore buckskin and went hunting with a rifle. She and her family participated in the Land Run that settled part of Oklahoma Territory in 1889 and became Homesteaders by staking a claim to and settling 160 acres of land. The movie "Far and Away" with Tom Cruise was about the 1889 Run - as was the Edna Ferber novel, "Cimarron".
You mentioned Native American women. Will you be researching women from Eastern USA tribes or would you be interested in some from the so-called Five Civilized Tribes who were "removed" from their homes in the southeast to what became eastern Oklahoma?
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CALLIE AND JEAN; I've been going to Elderhostels for years, up until my husband died. I tried one after that but it was too lonely and so I have given it up. They changed the name to some awful thing like EXPOSITAS, but I notice that it is called - look:
Road Scholar is the new
program name for Elderhostel, Inc.
and here is the site:
http://www.roadscholar.org/programs/usa.asp
JEAN, when I read your post about a Road Scholar course I had no idea what you were talking about until I looked at the Elderhostel site. THOSE FOLKS SHOULD NOT HAVE TRIED TO FOOL AROUND WITH SOMETHING WE ALL KNEW VERY WELL. Of course, they were trying to interest younger folk who did not want to be associated with "elders" - I learned that when my daughter (who probably was in her late 30's at the time) went with me to Rome on an Elderhostel trip. She said don't ask me to go again, hahahaaa But when we went off by ourselves for a few days to Venice what a fun time we had.
ROAD SCHOLAR is better than Espositas was!
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Ella, thanks for the information about Elderhostel/Roads Scholar. Because I must now wear ankle braces for a condition that surgery will not help, my travel days are over.
I regret this but I think tours and programs of this sort no longer consider those of us who are unable to "keep up" (by their definition).
Not being able to do Everything (like walk for hours and hours) does NOT mean we can't do Anything.
Oh...don't get me started on THIS soapbox!!!! >:(
OMT (One More Thing): I just checked the Roads Scholar "Programs For Women Only". Out of 14 different choices, 6 mentioned Trekking, Hiking, Canoeing, Golfing, Rock and Roll or By Foot in the title and one was in Africa, which would probably be more of the same.
Point made! :(
OMT OMT :D In all fairness, I checked out the "Activity Level One" offerings. There are quite a few in Baltimore Maryland that do look interesting. ...now if something could be done about difficulties with flying.
Callie Curmudgeonette is off to find something useful to do ;D
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I'll step up on the soapbox a moment also, Callie. I am limited as to what I can do; mine is due to arthritis, age, etc. etc. I had surgery on an ankle last winter but fortunately it is functioning well, although on certain days I still have pain in it. I haven't even looked at the Road Scholar programs for a couple of years but they have my email and I just got one from them yesterday about a tall ship adventure to Costa Rica.
Adventures! Some of those are not doable, but we can read about them! We are starting a f2f book club in my condo neighborhood, I don't know whether it will take off or not. But I saw WEST WITH THE NIGHT, Beryl Markham's wonderful book at the Library and thought I would take it with me to suggest we discuss it sometime soon. One of those best books.......
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Ella, I suspect there are many of us in the same situation.
I enjoy reading about places I've been - and would have loved going. I also enjoy seeing a location in a movie or on t v for which I can say, "I've been there!".
I have just joined an informal book club that exchanges books monthly and meets just once a year. A small committee takes suggestions and purchases 11 books (no exchange in December), then divides the total cost among the members. There is a mix of fiction and non-fiction.
Between the first and 5th of each month, we are responsible for passing the book we've had to the next member on the list. I have no idea how the rotation schedule was devised but it looks simple to follow.
I just received the first book - "The Postmistress" by Sara Blake.
I'm looking forward to a year of interesting reading.
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The Postmistress by Sara Blake was quite an interesting book, too much sadness to say it was enjoyable, but definitely worthwhile! I finished it last week.
I won't go into details, since the reviews on Amazon are better than what I could write.
By the way, I thought it was fiction; should we be discussing it in the Library?
Do post, if you want to, after you read it, Callie!
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Callie and Jean: how wonderful your programs sound. I do hope you can share some of your material with us!
Jean: I have the first two sources you mentioned, but am not familiar with the third. Perhaps you can continue to share your bibliography with us. I did my dissertation on the effect of new technology on women in the workplace, and am still interested in thetopic, although I have not kept up with research since I retired.
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Mippy - yes, indeed, fiction should be discussed elsewhere. I just mentioned "The Postmistress" in connection with my "tale" of the book club.
I haven't read any non-fiction in a while. May look for a good Biography soon.
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That's an interesting idea, CALLIE. An opportunity to share 11 books for the price of one
and be sure of having something coming in to read at least once a month. Of course, there's
likely to be one or two you don't care for, but also a chance of finding a new author you love.
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Joan - your dissertation sounds interesting, what was the time frame you were writing about?
For my w's history presentation, I'm also using a little book that the Alice Paul Institute helped to put together and publish ( I was a founding board mbr of API) titled New Jersey Women's Heritage Trail which gives a page to each women's history site in NJ. I mention it because many states have done this and there may be such a book available in your state. We did it in conjuction w/ the NJ Historic Preservation Office.
Our library has an exhibit of books that are related to Independence Day and i saw David McCullough's book 1776 which i had never read, so i got it. I'm now into the revolutionary period in compiling my women's history presentation and knowing DMc I'm sure he has things to add about women of the time. This is going to be the section that will be most difficult to pare down. There are so many wonderful sources and so many wonderful women of the time.
Just in case you are interested, the "cast of characters" for the colonial period are Margaret Brent: a plantation owner in Maryland who acted as business agent for her brothers, going to court to collect payments on average of 17x a yr between 1642 & 1650 and usually winning. She was also the executor for Lord Calvert's will and had power of atty for Lord Baltimore who was in London. The lack of bar associations and medical associations, etc. allowed people who were capable to act in those professions regardless of gender. Women had quite a lot of independence during the colonial period which got restricted when we move into the 19th century.
Deborah Franklin, Ben's lonely wife who ran his businesses for the decades he was in England and France doing the country's business - and some of his own. She ran the printing shop, the sundries shop and the colony's postal service, expanding it w/ sev'l franchises, as well as hosting visitors who came by to talk about BF.
Elizabeth Haddon Estuagh, whose Quaker father, living in England, bought a lrg piece of land in South Jersey in 1700, but became ill and couldn't come to develop it himself, so he sent Eliz who celebrated her 20th b-day on the ship. She and a servant came alone to the wilderness. Can you imagine sending your 20 yr old dgt, today, to a place where there have been stories of Indian massacres, people living in caves, having no clue of what it is really like in "new Jersey"? He gave her power of atty. Quakers believed that all should be able to read and interpret the Bible, so they educated both boys and girls, therefore she had the capability to act in her father's place. She established a homestead in Haddon's Field, which became Haddonfield, NJ, gave land for the Friend's Mtg House and School, was expert at herbs and healing, some of it learned from the Lenni Lenape Indians of the area, was the "women's clerk" of the Meeting for 50 yrs and proposed to a Quaker minister who seemed too shy to propose to her. She was also alone often when he went off on missionary trips and managed the family businesses quite well.
Patience Lovell Wrightwas the first professional sculptor in the colonies. She and her sisters made wax figures and busts. They had lrg exhibits. After a fire in her studio in Bordentown, NJ, she took her 5 children (she was widowed) and moved to London where she did wax sculptures of the king and queen. She became a self-apptd spy, listening to conversations of Londoners and sending info to Geo Washington.
That's my first group of characters and of course i add a lot of gen'l info about women of the time......most of which is about ENDLESS work, producing things: bread, cloth, candles, butter, clothing, diapers, preserving foodstuffs, etc. .....thank goodness i was born in 1941....jean
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Thanks very much, Jean, for keeping us informed about your project. Those highlights about independent women in the colonial period are very interesting.
Are you familiar with the writing of Laurel Thatcher Ulrich? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Thatcher_Ulrich and http://dohistory.org/
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I now have a copy of Michael Grant's "Readings From Classical Historians", which someone here recommended. My thanks. I did a
quick scan when it arrived yesterday and found it will be most readable.
In addition, the author has provided a time-line for reference, as well
as a map of the Graeco-Roman world in the classical period. This is
a book I will be reading slowly, historian by historian.
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Yes, Marcie, i do know Ulrich's books, thanks for mentioning them and providing the link.
I met Ulrich about 2 yrs ago when she spoke at a Women's Way (Phila's fund-raising organization for women's org's - similar to United Way) honoring her for the best book written on women's history that year. We had a nice chat and she signed my copy of "Well-Behaved Women..." She was an excellent speaker.
I don't think i knew she was a Mormon. It sounds as tho she has been shunned by them recently. It reminds me of Sonia Johnson of the 70's and 80's. She was an active Mormon who was excommunicated for her work on the ERA. The Alice Paul foundation honored her at our first dinner giving the Alice Paul Equality Awards, in 1985, along w/ Sally Ride and Judge Lisa Richette, who made the descision that "stewardesses" did not have to resign at age 35, or have weight requirements - remember those days? .............well, at least most of the country has come into the 21st century!?! ...........jean
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I watched C-Span 2's book notes over last weekend. I was especially impressed with the interviews with both Robert Dallek, and Michael Beschloss. They impressed me enough to buy each of the books featured. Dallek's is: "Nixon and Kissinger". I have begun reading it, and am finding it very interesting.
Beschloss's book is: "Truman and McArthur". The interviews with these two historians were most interesting. I was a young teenager when Truman fired McArthur. I enjoy reading both of these authors.
Sheila
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Jean, it sounds like you are really keeping up in the field of women's history and have met some influential people. Your course should be very enlightening for those lucky enough to enroll.
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Thanks, Shelia, for mentioning the books by Dallek and Beschloss. BookTV is one of my favorite programs, but I missed
that one. Truman is one of my favorite presidents. I'm planning to visit the Nixon Library in Yorba Linda, California, with a friend at the end of this month. Neither of us have been there, even tho' I live very close to it. I disliked Nixon so much I could never manage to go there. But I've mellowed over the years, and decided I really should see it. I've often thought it would be interesting to visit all or a good many of the presidential libraries across the U.S. A most beautiful one here in Southern California is the Reagan Library which I've visited several times.
Marj
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Our first bookclub meeting (in our condo neighborhood) was held yesterday; eight of us. A good number as it gave everyone a chance to talk. Our book was LA'S ORCHESTRA SAVES THE WORLD by Alexander McCall Smith, a WWII fiction, and I won't know if it was a success until next month when someone - hopefully the same eight people- come again. I suggested the book for next month. Summary:
"When Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, Abdulrahman Zeitoun, a prosperous Syrian-American and father of four, chose to stay through the storm to protect his house and contracting business. In the days after the storm, he traveled the flooded streets in a secondhand canoe, passing on supplies and helping those he could. A week later, on September 6, 2005, Zeitoun abruptly disappeared. Eggers’s riveting nonfiction book, three years in the making, explores Zeitoun’s roots in Syria, his marriage to Kathy — an American who converted to Islam — and their children, and the surreal atmosphere (in New Orleans and the United States generally) in which what happened to Abdulrahman Zeitoun was possible. Like What Is the What, Zeitoun was written in close collaboration with its subjects and involved vast research — in this case, in the United States, Spain, and Syria." - Synopsis, B&N
The title is the name of an Arab male who has lived in NEw Orleans for several years, ha a family, and a successful business, and, yet, when the hurricane strikes it is every man/woman for themselves when the U.S. Government finally comes into the city.
It's a very good book, but I think the author should have come up with a better name. There were such blank expressions on my neighbors/friends when I proposed the book.
Has anyone read it?
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Ella asked, "Has anyone read it?"
Has anyone read what, Ella? I'm confused. The book your F2F group read by Alexander McCall Smith has nothing to
do with Hurrican Katrina, at least according to Amazon.com's review??
Marj
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Oh, Gosh, MARJ!
That last post that I made was very bewildering. Sorry!
The proposed book for next month is ZEITOUN by Timothy Eggers. I did quote the summary correctly, just left out the title! Good book!
Here it is:
http://www.amazon.com/Zeitoun-Vintage-Dave-Eggers/dp/0307387941/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1279400556&sr=1-1
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Aha, Ella, now that makes sense (LOL). No, I haven't read it, but it sounds interesting.
Marj
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Jean: don't forget one of my favorite women of the Colonial period (or rather, just after the revolution), Elizabeth Freeman. She was a slave in Massachusetts, who had been mistreated by her mistress. After the Revolution, before the national constitution was written, each state had to write its own constitution. John Adams helped write the Massachusetts constitution, which started "All Men are Born free." Freeman heard the white people talking about this while waiting at table, and asked a lawyer to file a suit for her (and another slave) claiming that if she was born free, it was illegal to hold her as a slave.
The court agreed, and this secured not only her freedom, but the making of slavery unconstitutional in Massachusetts, the first state to do so.
References :"Founding Mothers, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2p39.html
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Thanks for that reminder Joan, i'll mention her in the "Federalist period". And thanks for the link........jean
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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JOANK, that is really neat! I hadn't heard of Elizabeth Freeman before
and I loved reading that. It occurs to me she must have chosen her surname.....what more appropriate than 'Freeman'!
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There is an interesting article in today's online NY Times' Book Section which those of you who have read Greg Mortenson's book, Three Cups of Tea, might be interested in reading. Here is a part of the article:
“Will move through this and if I’m not involved in the years ahead, will take tremendous comfort in knowing people like you are helping Afghans build a future,” General McChrystal wrote to Mr. Mortenson in an e-mail message, as he traveled from Kabul to Washington. The note landed in Mr. Mortenson’s inbox shortly after 1 a.m. Eastern time on June 23. Nine hours later, the general walked into the Oval Office to be fired by President Obama.
The e-mail message was in response to a note of support from Mr. Mortenson. It reflected his broad and deepening relationship with the United States military, whose leaders have increasingly turned to Mr. Mortenson, once a shaggy mountaineer, to help translate the theory of counterinsurgency into tribal realities on the ground.
In the past year, Mr. Mortenson and his Central Asia Institute, responsible for the construction of more than 130 schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan, mostly for girls, have set up some three dozen meetings between General McChrystal or his senior staff members and village elders across Afghanistan.
The collaboration, which grew in part out of the popularity of “Three Cups of Tea” among military wives who told their husbands to read it, extends to the office of Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Last summer, Admiral Mullen attended the opening of one of Mr. Mortenson’s schools in Pushghar, a remote village in Afghanistan’s Hindu Kush mountains.
Mr. Mortenson — who for a time lived out of his car in Berkeley, Calif. — has also spoken at dozens of military bases, seen his book go on required reading lists for senior American military commanders and had lunch with Gen. David H. Petraeus, General McChrystal’s replacement. On Friday he was in Tampa to meet with Adm. Eric T. Olson, the officer in charge of the United States Special Operations Command.
Mr. Mortenson, 52, thinks there is no military solution in Afghanistan — he says the education of girls is the real long-term fix — so he has been startled by the Defense Department’s embrace."
Marj
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I forgot to say the name of the above article in the NY Times book section. It's "Unlikely Tutor Giving Military Afghan Advice" by Elizabeth Bumiller.
Marj
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Wonderful! Bravo! It is so heartening to hear that Mr. Mortenson has gained such an audience.
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Yes, Frybabe, it is heartening. And good for the military wives for pushing their husband's to read the book. (I guess I will have to read it now, not that I have any influence with them (LOL).
Marj
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MARJ: it's well worth reading, influence or no.
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Indeed, and Mr. Mortenson's influence continues to spread. A children's version of "Three Cups
of Tea" is now available; I saw a copy in my own library. Catch them while they're young!
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http://forum-network.org/series/summer-reading-series
This is one of the sites on forum-network.org that offers live and on-demand lectures and readings by some of the world's foremost scholars, authors, artists, policy makers and comunity leaders sourced from public tv and radio stations. Vidoes can be selected by individual lectures or series. The "summer reading series" is about adozen authors, many of them non-fiction, but not all, talking about their works. .................jean
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Thanks for the link, Jean. I've bookmarked it. A long while back I used to read lectures from something called Fathom. You've encouraged me to look it up again - and here it is.
For Agatha Christie fans there is a free lecture titled "Agatha Christie and Archaeology" in there.
http://www.fathom.com/products/course_directory.html
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Thank you for that link, i've put it in my favorites and have sent it on to friends. I think i've got a couple of years of viewing now from all those sites........... ;D .............but this is what i was excited about when i first heard them talk about the "web." That we would be able to access all knowledge from everywhere!! and now it's happening!..............love it! .............jean
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Thanks Jean and Frybabe. I've bookmarked both of them. Sound very interesting.
Marj
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Sorry to interrupt, but I need to make sure everyone sees this -
We've just now opened the vote for fall book discussions. You can vote for your top choice in Part I of the poll and then in Part II click on ALL of those you would be interested in discussing at some time. Some great choices - note that there are reviews linked to the book titles in the header in the Suggestion Box (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.msg78842#msg78842) if you are not familiar with some of them.
Are you ready? -
Click Here to Cast your Vote! (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3GVFW3V) -
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Alan Brinkley, son of David (remember him?), was on Book TV one weekend and I reserved his book THE PUBLISHER: Heny Luce and his American Century. I'm afraid his TIME magazine has seen its best decades and will soon be extinct, but it was a good magazine, along with his other publications FORTUNE and LIFE.
A very good book.
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Glad to hear you liked the book about Henry Luce, Ella. I also heard about it on BookTV and want to read it.
Sounds so interesting and talks about Wendell Wilkie, Chiang Kai--Shek, Whitaker Chambers and others, people I
recall hearing about (I had a Wendell Wilkie button as a kid), but whom few younger people today know about.
Marj
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I jotted a note to myself that I have near my computer to look at a book by Sam Tannehaus - a biography of Whittaker Chambers, which must have been commented on in the LUCE book.
For some reason, I have never forgotten Chambers own book; I believe the name of it was WITNESS. I must look it up. Perhaps because of the pumpkin papers? What a clever place to hide secrets, who would ever think of looking in a pumpkin patch.
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I believe it was "Witness", ELLA. I remember it made quite an impression on me.
I'm greatly enjoying slowly reading and savoring "Readings From The Classical Historians".
The earliest ones were far from what we would consider a reliable historian today, but they
were the first to even attempt to document the events of their times. The only cues they had to the past were the word of mouth stories, myths and legends.
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That does look interesting, BABI. Yes, someone had to start the process of recording history. What year about did it all start? B.C. what?? The Greeks? Before then?
Somewhere I read that it is no longer appropriate to use B.C. as it denotes "Christ" and two of our three great religions do not believe in such a one. Strange, then, how that became a tool of historians. Does the book talk about that?
I have a World History book here that describes the Paleolithic Era which lasted over a million years, down to 12,000-10,000 B.C. in which no more than half a million humans were alive at any one time. It was during this era that language developed so there must be a fragment of history from this era?
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Babi, what I liked about Livy when I read his history was that he would comment from time to time that he had no direct knowledge of whether or not an account was accurate. He relied on oral traditions and once or twice told more than one version of an event because he had no reliable way of telling which was closer to the truth.
Ella, Herodotus (484 – c. 420 BC) and Thucydides (460 – c. 400 BC) were both considered the Fathers of History because they were the first to systematically collect and test materials for accuracy.
While Herodotus is considered the father of Western culture, Thucydides is considered the father of scientific history. Thucydides used strict evidence gathering and analysis to find cause and effect. He was interested in group behavior, studying the relations between nations and how people reacted to crisis situations such as the plague and war.
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Beautifully put Frybabe
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Exactly what I love about this site, the books, the readers who comment, the knowledge. Thanks FRYBABE AND GUMTREE.
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Thanks Gum,Ella. I believe Thucydides is still read in military schools. I don't know if it is required reading, but it is apparently still useful today. How about that. Wonder what he would say to that.
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Think it might wake him up from the dead, Frybabe!
I turned on BookTV and listened to the last half of what was a very good panel program of historians and their newest books - Hampton Sides, James Donovan and Jeff Guinn.
I've never read any of their books, but will look them up in the library.
Then on came Lynne Olson, author of our book discussion - TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN. She's talking about her new book CITIZENS OF LONDON. I'll wait a few months to read that one, but after throoughly discussing the period of WWII and America's involvement (well, maybe not thoroughly as that book was just about the young parliamentarians of London) I need a rest from war.
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The Results are just in - you all have selected quite an interesting group of THREE for the Fall line-up:
ZEITOUN (Eggers)- An American epic. Fifty years from now, when people want to know what happened to the once great city of New Orleans during a shameful episode of our history, they will still be talking about a family named Zeitoun
We will read and discuss David Egger's Zeitoun in September with Ella and JoanK. This is a true story, but as gripping as Fiction. Just opened today - Zeitoun (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=1585.0) . Please drop in now and let them know whether you will be part of the discussion.
LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS (Le Guin) - Story of a lone human emissary's mission to an alien world. Groundbreaking science fiction hat leaves you thinking about gender issues, "nature vs nurture," nationalism and more. Proposed for October
EXCELLENT WOMEN (Pym) - High comedy about a never-married woman in her 30s, which in 1950s England makes her a nearly confirmed spinster.Often compared to Jane Austen Proposed for November
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Yes, ELLA, the earliest 'historians' were Greeks. People were talking long before they developed writing, and it was much longer before anyone thought it might be a good idea to write down what was happening for the instruction of future generations.
I believe the 'correct' designation now is B.C.E., meaning 'before the common era'. I don't think the other two great religions you refer to 'do not believe in such a one'; they simply don't consider him divine.
FRYBABE,Thucydides also explained in his history that he could not repeat a speech verbatim (no shorthand back then), so he would write it in his own words as closely to the original intent as he could. I was reading his report of a speech by a Corinthian about the Athenians and had to grin. They sounded a lot like today's modern America workaholic.
Actually, there were two earlier 'historians'. Hecateus might be considered the 'grandfather' of history, and Hellanicus is described as more of a chronicler. Little of their works remain, and they did not, as you mention, test their information for accuracy or analyze for cause and effect. The human interest element was definitely there, though.
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Babi, thanks for the update. I knew there had to be others, but I rarely see any mention of earlier Greek histories than Herodotus.
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There were plenty of early Greek historians but most of their work is only known from fragments or where it is mentioned in other works - Heracleides of Cyme was one such historian whose fragments were recorded by Athenaeus. Fragments of Antiochus of Syracuse's History of Sicily date from 5th Century BC. And then there's Xenophon who was a friend of Socrates.... but of course Thucydides and Herodutus reign supreme.
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"Thucydides and Herodutus reign supreme."
I have a friend who claims that you haven't read history until you've read Herodutus. Do you agree?
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Thucydides and Herodotus are so completely different in their method of relating history. Thucydides, although technically more acceptable to scholars, is quite dry compared to Herodotus. "The Peloponnesian War" is not a book to be read for pleasure. I remember groaning in Ancient History classes when the time came to study it. Herodotus, conversely, is great fun to read. Although academics compare Herodotus unfavourably to Thucydides, I love him. He is a great storyteller. It could have something to do with the fact that Thucydides concentrated on just one place/episode in history, whereas Herodotus takes us too so many different places, peoples and cultures, right down to customs. The academics also say that Herodotus "The Histories" doesn't handle the truth so well. But, hey, who cares! He is such a great read.
While on the topic in the 70s feminists were unhappy that history was written as "his- story"and railed at the fact that men had chosen this chauvinist title which indicated that only men were a part of history. In Greek (ancient and modern) the word is istoria
with an unaspirated "h". Nothing to do with men, as the Greek word for "his" is "tou" pronounced as "too".
Even if you just dip into Herodotus he is very entertaining. On the other hand, I doubt if I could read "The Pelopponesian War" again except for academic reference.
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It seemed to me, from the fragments I read, that Herodotus sounded more like gossip than factual history. Which, of course, is what made
it more entertaining.
The book I'm reading consists of 'selected' readings from the classical
historians, ROSE, which I am assuming means I'll be getting the best parts and not the 'dry' parts. ;)
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Babi - Please remind me of the title of the book you are reading.
I think, although I am an Hellenophile to my chin whiskers, that my favourite historian is Suetonius. His "The Twelve Caesars" is a masterpiece imho. Babi is he in your book?
Yes. Herodotus is a great gossip, who wouldn't be with such topics? Suetonius is gossipy too, who wouldn't be with all those naughty Julio-Claudians? :o
From Wiki re "The Twelve Caesars "The work tells the tale of each Caesar's life according to a set formula: the descriptions of appearance, omens, family history, quotes, and then a history are given in a consistent order for each Caesar." Good stuff!
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The book is "Readings in The Classical Historians", ROSE, by Michael Grant. The book
was recommended by a poster here in SeniorNet, but I've forgotten who. Whoever it was,
take a bow, please.
I checked the index, and Suetonius will be awaiting me when I get to the 2nd centuryAD
historians.
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Taking a bow!
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Thank you, Frybabe. I just brought "Readings In The Classical Historians" home from the library. Need to bake cookies this afternoon for two upcoming functions - but am looking forward to dipping into a subject I love (history) but have never read at this level (classical).
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:)@ Frybabe and babi.
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My posts continue to go into disarray sometimes. They are straight and even when I check them after posting, but when I come back in they are jumbled. I've seen the same thing happen to Marjifay's posts,
too. MARJ, I guess we need to put our heads together and figure out
what we have in common in our posting. What on earth could cause a
post to go haywire after it's posted?
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A gremlin?
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Got any remedies for gremlins, JOAN? No harm, of course, ..it just
offends my sense of order and precision. Which is adjustable in any case. ::)
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Sorry, my anti-gremlin charms don't work in the new millenium.
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Babi, Are you pressing the return key at any time other than a paragraph break?
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I don't think so, MARCIE. What really throws me is that I can
go through my note and straighten all the lines before I post, see that
the post is in order after I post, move on to my next site, and
still may find my post in disorder the next time I come in.
I think a connection somewhere is hiccuping. ???
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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Babi are you typing your message in the posting box or typing elsewhere and pasting it in?
If you are using an 800x600 screen resolution, you may be pressing returns to adjust for that size display. Try typing one word over and over and don't press the return key on your keyboard and see what happens.
marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie marcie
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I just typed the above using the QUICK REPLY and the following using the REPLY box.
When I posted in either box, the number of words that went to the second line after I clicked POST was different than the number of words that displayed in the Quick Reply and Reply boxes so you shouldn't try to adjust what shows. Just don't use the return key at all except to create new paragraphs.
good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good
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I do type my messages on the notepad as I go along, MARCIE. It makes it easier to keep track of posts I want to answer. On the notepad I do have to press return as it is not automatic there.
After I make adjustments in the in post itself, tho', it sometimes remains in that order and sometimes goes haywire. I believe you are right that the problem lies in the notepad-to-online routine, but I can't figure out what makes the difference between those that stay 'adjusted' and those that don't. I am willing to live with it to keep the convenience of the notepad. I'd never keep track of all the posts I wanted to respond to without it.
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Babi, if you don't press the Return/Enter key on your keyboard in Notepad, won't the text wrap anyway?
You're text above looks fine!
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No, in my notepad the text line just goes on and on if I don't press
return, MARCIE. And yes, the posts don't mess up all the time, just
often enough to be aggracating and perplexing. C'est la vie. (No, I don't speak French, but we all pick up some phrases. :) )
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I'm sorry for the problem with alignment, Babi. :-(
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It's a livable trade-off, MARCIE. Convenience vs. occasional aggravation. ;D
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CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY, someone is reading nonfiction these days! I keep hoping to find a good book, a history, a biography at my library but the search is in vain most visits. So I must take myself on a trip to a B&N soon and search their shelves.
Meanwhile, doesn't anyone have any suggestions?
And don't forget that on Sept lst we are beginning our discussion of ZEITOUN by Dave Eggers. The title is the name of a man, a Muslim and his family, who survived Hurricane Katrina and I think a quote from Mark Twain that Eggers put in the front of his book is apt:
"To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Mark Twain
JOIN US!
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Hi Ella - First time I have"spoken" to you. If you enjoy historical biography borrow anything by Alison Weir. She is an excellent writer/historian. Tell me what you think?
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Ella - I just received in my latest book order The Big Burn: Teddy Roosevelt and the Fire That Saved America by Timothy Egan, 2009 copyright. It looks to be very good. It's supposed to in the same vein as his The Worst Hard Time about the 1930 dust stoms which I found very interesting. I have a couple other nonfiction to finish before I start this one. Mary
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"The Fire that Saved America?"???? Tell us more Mary.............jean
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Is it the triangle shirtwaist fire?
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The Big Burn:
Synopsis (from dust jacket)
On the afternoon of August 20, 1910, a battering ram of wind moved through the drought-stricken national forests of Washington, Idaho, and Montana, whipping the hundreds of small blazes burning across the forest floor into a roaring inferno that jumped from treetop to ridge as it raged, destroying towns and timber in the blink of an eye. Forest rangers had assembled nearly ten thousand men — college boys, day workers, immigrants from mining camps — to fight the fire. But no living person had seen anything like those flames, and neither the rangers nor anyone else knew how to subdue them.
Egan narrates the struggles of the overmatched rangers against the implacable fire with unstoppable dramatic force. Equally dramatic is the larger story he tells of outsized president Teddy Roosevelt and his chief forester, Gifford Pinchot. Pioneering the notion of conservation, Roosevelt and Pinchot did nothing less than create the idea of public land as our national treasure, owned by and preserved for every citizen. The robber barons fought Roosevelt and Pinchot’s rangers, but the Big Burn saved the forests even as it destroyed them: the heroism shown by the rangers turned public opinion permanently in their favor and became the creation myth that drove the Forest Service, with consequences still felt in the way our national lands are protected — or not — today.
I also have on my TBR pile Last Call: The Rise & Fall of Prohibition by Daniel Okrent. This received good reviews in Bookmarks July/August 2010
From a synopsis:
Writing with both wit and historical acuity, Okrent reveals how Prohibition marked a confluence of diverse forces: the growing political power of the women’s suffrage movement, which allied itself with the antiliquor campaign; the fear of small-town, native-stock Protestants that they were losing control of their country to the immigrants of the large cities; the anti-German sentiment stoked by World War I; and a variety of other unlikely factors, ranging from the rise of the automobile to the advent of the income tax.
If I could just give up genealogy & needlework I would be able to get more reading done. The three are not conducive to multi tasking.
Mary
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I have had "Game Change" on reserve for weeks and finally my number came up. :D
It is very good.
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ELLA, I am still reading "Freedom's Daughters", by Lynn Olson. It is about both civil rights women, and women's sufferage. I really like the way this author writes.
I also have "The Big Burn" on my Kindle. Timothy Egan is another writer whom I enjoy. "Last Call" is also on my Kindle.
Sheila
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CubFan The Big Burn synopsis could almost be describing the horrific bushfires we experience here in Australia - in particular the one which raged across the state of Victoria on 9 February 2009 which is known as 'Black Saturday' - 173 people lost their lives, more than 400 were injured -some seriously - hundreds of homes burnt to the ground, an immense area of land was burnt out and of course livestock and crops lost. 400 individual fires were burning in the area that day of extreme temperatures and scorching high winds. Australia has also had other major fires through the years such as the devastating 'Ash Wednesday' - we learn from each experience but somehow not enough to stop them occurring. It is a quirk of nature that our bushland is rejuvenated by fire - the smoke will cause seedhusks to open and the seed then germinates. - The trick is to cause the germination by controlled burning.
Sorry to be on a hobby horse.
BTW - I'm also into needlework, art and genealogy and agree that at times they do interfere with my reading.
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GUM, we have pines here that also need the heat of fire to open their seed pods. I've wondered how that works now that we work so hard to put out fires as quickly as possible. 'Controlled burning' must be the answer.
My only successful 'needlework' was counted cross-stitch, but that no
longer works for me. My eyes start 'cross'-ing instead of my stitches!
::)
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Hey, I used to do needlework too, BABI, but I have the same problems with my eyes! Thank goodness we can all still read.
THANK YOU ALL FOR THE SUGGESTIONS. I am going to the Library tomorrow I think.
My branch of the library has a book by Alison Weir titled MISTRESS OF THE MONARCHY, and the fact that our library bought 33 copies of the book is an indication that it is good and will be enjoyed.
I want to read THE LAST CALL also, by Daniel Okrent. Yes, I have read that fires are good, in the long run, for forests or wherever. Strange what nature provides.
I have read THE BIG BURN; it was a good book, and I bought the book GAME CHANGE. A good book, also!
Keep the recommendations coming when you read a good nonfiction!
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Over on the fiction side, where I hang out, there are several of us who read historical novels and the most popular period is the early Tudors,specifically Henry VIII and his wives, his court, etc. Richard III, the last Plantagenet, preceded Henry. Thomas P Costain, historical novelist from Canada, has written a non-fiction four-part series on the Plantagenets which we have been discussing lately. http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/c/thomas-b-costain/conquering-family.htm
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What do you non-fiction readers think of historical novels. They are a good way of learning history, but authors vary a lot in how careful they are to be accurate, and that bothers me.
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JoanK - Now I DO sound like I am harping. Alison Weir is now writing novels based on her research as a historical biographer. I used one of her novels "Innocent Traitor" as a challenge in "Author, Author". The innocent traitor is Lady Jane Grey, a young woman who was Queen for just nine days. Not much has been written about Lady Jane. I think you will enjoy reading the novel and anything else by Alison Weir. Let me know.
I think I should write a letter to Alison Weir asking for commission! :D
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If any of you are thinking of joining the discussion of "Zeitoun", an account of one families experiences in Hurricane Katrina, the Zeitoun family is due to be interviewed tomorrow (Friday) on the PBS show Tavis Smiley.
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I am not a fan of historical fiction. Prefer good nonfiction history. But, then, I've never read anything by Alison Weir. Will give one of her books a try.
Marj
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I like both non-fiction and historical fiction, but as I mentioned in "fiction" i'm reading Dana Fuller Ross's first in a long (19) series about the way west, Wagons West: Indenpendence. I just finished it and have started the second one Nebraska. I have enjoyed them, but since history is my field, i do get too picky about the historical "facts." They are fiction afterall. But i have felt in reading good hist-fic writers that i have learned some history from them. ...........jean
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I say I'm not a fan of historicalfiction, but I love detective stories with historic characters as detectives. But they are terrible as far as sorting out fact from fiction. I'm reading one now with Oscar Wilde as the detective, and I cant tell at all what really happened, or which characters (other than the famous ones) are real people. It was written by a man who wrote a biography of Wilde so he knows.
I have read a biography of Wilde some years ago (by Richard Ellman) but don't remember enough detail. That was an interesting biography, somewhat dragged down by the biographer's need to mention everyone that Wilde knew, and Wilde knew EVERYONE! The detective story (by a different author, whose name I don't have with me, has the same fault.
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Allison Weir and Antonia Frazer are both excellent writers, as I enjoy both straight history ... if it is well written, a big IF ... and historical fiction if it does not inject too much romance. I've also read at least five different authors on the Tudors.
There is also a long list of historical fiction writers on ancient Rome, with Steven Saylor, John Maddox Roberts and Colleen McCullough among the best. A warning, however: McCullough also covers other cultures and countries with mixed success, so do read the Amazon reviews carefully.
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Someone had suggested you all might want to hear what i'm preparing for the women's history course, so i'll throw a little in every once in a while. If you'd rather i didn't just say so, my feelings won't be hurt, my ego isn't that fragile and i know not every one is as enthusiastic as i am about spreading the word about women in history............. :)
Since it's a survey of American women's history and is just 9 hrs long, i'm skimming and not hitting every nook and cranny. I'm sort of focusing on NJ and on Quakers because many of the people in the community are from that background, but also because they are important in the first half of our history. ......I tho't you might like to see the cast of characters i've got in the first half, and maybe test yourselves about what you know of them.
Colonial history: Margaret Brant of Maryland, Deborah Franklin - Ben's wife, Elizabeth Haddon Estaugh for whom Haddonfield, NJ was named, Patricia Lowell Wright - first known woman sculptor in America.
From the revolutionary period: Daughters of Liberty, Mercy Otis Warren, "Molly Pitcher," Deborah Sampson Ganett - dressed as a man fought in the war, Eliza Lucas Pickney - made indigo a cash crop in SC and raised 2 important sons of the time, Abigail Adams, Martha WAshington, Betsey Ross.
All of these women have very interesting stories. If you are looking for some good biography, many of them have been written about these women in the last couple of decades. Of course, some of you have read Cokie Roberts' Founding Mothers or Remember the Ladies, so you probably do know about the second group........................jean
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JEAN, I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know most of those ladies. Back when we were being
educated, history focused on the men, with a few stores about women thrown in for human interest. Like Molly Pitcher. We heard all about Washington, Franklin, and Adams, but very little
about their wives. In fact, I don't recall anything at all about Ben Franklin's wife. I have read a biography since about Abigail Adams. The other names are all new to me.
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That sounds very interesting. I know some of those names, but not most. Wish I could take your course.
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WOW. Thanks for your comments about the women's history, JEAN. I do not remember hearing anything about any of the first group. Not much, either, about the second group. That is sad! I do remember reading about Dolly Madison, saving paintings from the White House. Also, some information about Abagail Adams, Florence Nigfhtingale, the women of Hull House, and Mary Lincoln.
I have just started reading "Freedom's Daughters". Lynne Olson is the author. It covers both the struggle for women's rights, and the fight for equality for black women. I am so very glad that my daughter, and granddaughter have many more opportunities, than we did.
Sheila
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I have two books on my bedside table that I am reading and enjoying. They are GEORGE WASHINGTON, THE UNEXPECTED. His Private Llife by Harlow Giles Unger. And TWILIGHT AT THE WORLD OF TOMORROW: Genius, Madness Murder and the 1939 World's Fair on the Brink of War by James Mauro.
The latter book reminds me a bit too much of the book we discussed a few years ago titled THE DEVIL AND THE WHITE CITY.
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Well, it would have helped if i had spelled Margaret BRENT's name correctly...lol. She is rather obscure if you haven't studied women's history, but very important to know about. We tend to think that women have always had a FAR backseat in public life until the recent decades. Actually women in colonial America had many fewer obstacles to public life than women had as they moved thru the 19th century and into the 20th.
Margaret Brent, her sister Mary and 2 brothers emigrated to Maryland from Grt Brit in 1638. The Brent sisters established their own plantantions, which they ran w/out their brothers' help. In fact, Margaret Brent often acted as her brothers' representative and business adviser. Collecting payment in those days often involved suing in court. Records show "Mistress Brent" participating in 134 separate court actions in 8 yrs and she usually won.
Brent was a close friend of Lord Calvert, MA's gov'nor and he called her to his bedside, giving the "briefest will in the history of law": "I make you my sole executrix. Take all and pay all." As executrix, Brent assumed responsibility for Clavert's estates and became the power of atty for Lord Baltimore, C's brother, then in London.
Brent had established herself a a major political figure and many believed she should be governor. She didn't seek that post, but in 1648, she appeared before the MA Assembly and asked for 2 votes in the assembly: 1 as C's executrix, the other as Lord B's "attorney." It was the 1st time in parliamentary history that a woman had sought political recognition in a governing body and had attached to her the title of "atty." She was denied the votes in the assembly and protested against any proceedings that effected her "jobs" if she did not have a say in the proceedings. As could be expected, the story heard by Lord Baltimore in England, led him to believe she was opposing him, so he turned against her.
See more at http://www.aboutfamouspeople.com/article1014.html
or at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Brent
Elizabeth Haddon Estaugh is of more local interest, but represents the equality that Quakers bestowed on the girls and women. EHE's father had bought 600 acres in "West" Jersey (now known as "South" Jersey) in what is now Camden Co. He became ill and in 1701 sent his 20 yr old dgt, w/ his power of atty to settle the land. Because Quakers believed that everyone should be able to read the Bible for themselves, they educated boys and girls, so her father felt she was prepared to handle the task before her. Can you imagine a 20 yr old, leaving a comfortable home, getting on a small sailing ship, crossing a "dangerous" ocean, going to a place of which she had very little information but of which there were rumors of "savages" and wild animals, a place w/ few towns, let alone cities, w/ only a servant as a companion?
EHE stayed for a night w/ Quaker acquaintances who were still living in a cave along the Deleware River, having not build a home for themselves. She hired people to clear some of her land and set to establishing a "plantation." (large farms were called p's even in the north at that point.) W/in a year she had a small house, some crops planted, met w/ the Lenni Lenape Indians in the area and proposed to John Estaugh, a Quaker minister that she had met briefly some yrs before in England. She managed the farm, became known for her herbs, medicines and healing - some of which she learned from the LL and eventually gave the property for the Quaker Meeting House in what is now Haddonfield, NJ. She served as clerk to the women's meeting for 50 yrs and died at 82 yrs old, being rather famous for her charity to the poor and the sick.
She had proved to be extraordinary in a number of ways, including her fierce sense of personal independence, in an era when women had few rights, and in her zealous dedication to Quaker beliefs. She retained to the last, control of her affairs.
More at http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/08/elizabeth-haddon-estaugh.html
Patience Lovell Wright is considered the first woman sculptor in America, but she also acted as a "spy" in London, having gone there after the was a fire in her studio in Bordentown, NJ.
See more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patience_Wright
You probably know more about the women at the founding of the country, i'll get back to them at a later time.................jean
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Those are wonderful stories. Thank you, Jean.
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Jean, I hope you continue to feed in these women's history facts. Although I'm a longtime Maryland resident, I'd never heard of Margaret Brent.
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Some of you may have read "The Man Who Never Was" by Ewen Montagu. Written in 1953, it tells the story of a magnificent scam perpetrated on the Nazis in WWII, Montagu the main architect. When the Allies were about to invade Sicily, the British managed to float a body ashore in Spain (neutral, but Axis sympathetic) which seemed to be a naval officer, presumably a passenger in a shot-down aircraft, bearing letters from one general to another suggesting that the invasion would take place in Sardinia and Greece, with Sicily being only a fake target. This was swallowed whole, with a resulting saving of a huge number of lives because Sicily was so lightly defended. The book is engaging and charming and has never been out of print since. It was made into a movie starring Clifton Webb.
Montagu had a lot of trouble getting permission to publish anything about the affair, and his book was heavily censored by authorities. Now, a lot of material has been declassified, and a lot has been learned about how the Nazis actually reacted to the false information, and classified documents held by Montagu (now dead) have been found.
Ben Macintyre has put all this together into a retelling of the story--"Operation Mincemeat" (the code name for the operation). It's fascinating. There are all sorts of twists and turns on the original story, including people who weren't what they seemed, and exactly what did and didn't work to make the scam believed, what happened to all the characters later, etc.
If you read "The Man Who Never Was", you definitely want to read this book. If you didn't, you still would enjoy it immensely. It's full of the personalities of the time that we enjoyed so much in "Troublesome Young Men", though not so many politicians, more minor characters.
One warning: the part which deals with getting and using the body is a bit gruesome, more than one would like about it's state, etc. This can be skipped, but it's hard to filter out all of it. (The way they got the body was pretty illegal, and Montagu had to keep quiet about it. Macintyre did some detective work to discover the real story.)
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I especially liked he story about Elizabeth Haddon Estaugh, JEAN. Is
there a biography of her I could look for? I'd like to learn more about her.
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THANK YOU, JEAN, AND PATH!
So good to share our books and knowledge on this site, isn't it! I must stop now and then and thank JOANP and GINNY for establishing SeniorLearn; we benefit from it so very much.
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Pat - that sounds like a great story. I'd not heard it before, altho i'd heard sev'l different stories about the ruses of a European invasion.
I've just seen two good, new programs on the History Channel. They are going to be repeated today...........Who Really Discovered America? will be on at 4 o'clock EST. Becuase of DNA and new archeological studies we have information that suggests that MANY people were here before Columbus besides the Asians who came some 20,000 yrs ago across the Bering Straits. The program was very interesting to me.
Showing right now - 12:18 EST - and being repeated at 6 o'clock EST is a new program on Thomas Jefferson................."new" history - an oxymoron??............one of the reasons i love history.
Babi - i haven't seen any books about EHE, but if you goggle her you get sev'l sites to read about her..............this one is perhaps the longest. It was written in 1913 for the 200th anniversary of the establishment of Haddonfield. I didn't mention before that she and John's romance are said to be the subject of Longfellow's poem "The Theologician's Tale." You can read it at this site also.................
http://home.comcast.net/~adhopkins/elizabeth-est.htm
Pat - the same is true about Margaret Brent, no book yet that i've seen, altho i wouldn't be surprised if one is in the works, but if you google her you will find some additional info about her.........i love her story. I have to wonder what her biological family was like for she, her sister and her brothers to grow up believing that woman were so capable. She was the first woman to ask for a vote/representation in a governmental body - long before Elizabeth Cady Stanton and the other suffragists..............jean
Enjoy..........thanks for all your kind words...........i'll be back to talk about the other women i mentioned..............jean
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...........i'll be back to talk about the other women i mentioned..............jean
Great!! We love to hear these stories!
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Thank you, JEAN. I very much enjoyed reading that link. I was
surprised to find so much authority and responsibility placed in
the hands of a young woman of 20. Clearly, she was well able to to
handle it.
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Who was it? Was it PATH who recommended the book, OPERATION MINCEMEAT by Ben Macintyre? I just finished it and it's very good. I want to get another book by him; his book AGENT ZIGZAG sounds like a good read.
Our f2f book club, which is new and just going into its third month, will be discussing a novel, JIMMY by Robert Whitlow. Anyone read it? This is not the proper place to ask, I know, but...................I'm typing away here.
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The Dgts of Liberty, unlike their male counterparts, were formed not to engage in sabotage or violence, but to participate in boycotts. of British products. Women patriots refused to buy - paper, sugar glass, silk, linen, madeira wine and tea. The boycotts generated new styles. Homespun cloth, made by women patriots, was worn on all occasions by all social classes. Spinning bees became patriotic events and coffee became the national pick me up.
In Edenton, North Carolina, a group of 51 women announced it's intention to boycott British tea and cloth in the Edenton Proclamation. The women stated that they had a right and a duty to participate in the political events of their time. W/out any precedents these women stated that they had political rts and intended to exercise them.
Like other woman of the time Deborah Franklin ran the family businesses, during her husband Benjamin’s long absences, she started w/ her special responsibility being the book and stationery shop in the front of their house. Cokie Robts talks abt F in a section in her book called Phila Business Woman. DF's 1st husband spent her dowry, ran up debts & took off for the W Indies, where he ws rumored to have died. That rumor was never confirmed, but BF was said to have “took to wife” Deborah, meaning that they couldn’t legally marry because there was no proof that he was dead. But the marriage was accepted by all. Over the yrs she took on more duties including helping run the printing shop & postal service when B was made postmaster for all the colonies, kept the books, helped invest in real estate & expanded the business into what were essentially print shop franchises up and down the Atlantic coast and back into the frontier. They did so well in their busness’s that B was able to retire at 42 to devote himself to his real loves – scientific experiments & public affairs. Of course, DF didn't retire, she continued running the busnesses and hosting people who came to talk to her about Ben, and, of course, running the household.
When B was in Eng & than France, she heard from him very seldom and when she did he was often instructing her how to construct the addition to their house & what colors to use in the rooms & what to do w/ the china & silverware that he sent – you can see these instructions engraved on the paving stones in the center of F courtyrd btwn 3rd & 4th sts on Market in Phila. She did refuse to go w/ him to Europe, so we can’t lay all the blame for their long separations on B. He first left in 1757 to go to London and returned 5 yrs later. He set sail again in 3 yrs, 1765 & did not return for more than a decade and D died in 1774. before he returned. Abigail Adams is given much credit for keeping things runnng for John, who was away 14 of the first 20 yrs of their marriage, but Deborah Franklin deserves as much credit, if not more for keeping the home fires/businesses burning while Ben was about the country's business.
Here is a piece from Time Mag about B and D, see a picture of D, ignore the subtitle about Ben, lol, and scroll down a bit to read about Deborah.
http://www.time.com/time/2003/franklin/bfwomen.html
Here is another site about her:
http://marriage.about.com/od/historical/a/benfranklin.htm
If you are interested in women's history that site, about.com has a treasure trove of history of all kinds, but is one of the best, quick sources for w's history. Actually it is a treasure trove for all kinds of things including knitting and crocheting stitches. It's one of my favorite spots, as you can probably tell.
I have't read the latest bio of BF - by Issacson. I'll be curious to see how much credit he gives to DF. There are 21 hits of her in the index of his book, but except for 2 they mention only single pages..................more later............jean
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That site does sound intriguing, JEAN. I'll have to check into about.com
and see what all they do talk 'about'.
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JEAN,, I have always (although cannot quote what source) believed that Franklin had many mistresses, here and definitely overseas and I knew he became wealthy. Probably I am remembering The Adams book by David McCullough, which we discussed in some length a number of years ago. If I remember correctly, John and Benjamin, never got along at all, being very different in their morals and values.
All those early men were great in their vision of what a country should be, however, and their attempt at liberty and justice for all (who am I quoting here, Lincoln?).
I just finished a good book about George Washington: His Private Life by Harlow Giles Unger, and there is just as much information about Martha, all their numerous friends and relations; all the children, whether related or not, that the two of them invited to live at Mt. Vernon. I'm rather proud of him, and our country for being wise enough at its birth to do what they all did. We should probably all read and remember from time to time; I'm apt to forget it all. And some details I don't think I ever knew. What a shame that Martha burned all their private letters, what was she thinking?? A few have surivived and fragments are quoted.
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Yes. Martha burning her letters is probably one of the all time great losses in American history.............wouldn't you love to have known her tho'ts about everything she was going thru?
I think Ben may have been more flirt than lover. Now, i haven't read the most recent bio - I must - but other than the woman he had William with before he married Deborah, I haven't read of actual affairs. I may have missed them, but the ones i've read about have been more flirtations, according to the authors.........I just read an interesting article about his sister Jane. Another one of those women w/ 12 children, 4 died before she was 30, by the time she was in her 60's only one dgt remained alive and she was ill. At 70, a granddgt died and left 4 children, who Jane than took into her household to raise. She was pregnant 21 yrs of her life and had children to care for even into her 70's!! The author did a take-off on Virginia Wolff's "If Shakespeare had a sister".........only she compared Ben and Jane, who was apparently healthy, smart, persevering, etc. and what might she have done if she was not getting pregnant when Ben was arriving in Phila??? ................jean
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I had a dream last night about Barack Obama. It was very nice. He had two mistresses, and I was one of them. Ahhhh....dreams.....
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:o Analyzing that dream could be very interesting, ROSE. ;)
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Is that why Obama travels so much, ROSE! And what city do you live in?
Yes, flirtations, probably best describes Franklin's relations with women. I like flirtations, they are fun. What you see on TV these days goes far beyond and is disgusting.
Tuberculosis killed so many! Yellow fever prevented a war with France (as I remember) - all fled the city of New York where the capital was for a time. John Adams was president then.
They all had to have big families to assure that a couple of them might survive to adulthood. And then, of course, they had no birth control methods.
Bleeding! Who came up with that primitive method to cure illness. It helped kill many, including George Washington.
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babi and ella - as you must know discretion is of the essence in these matters. I wish!!!
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I can see where bleeding might be useful in cases of high blood pressure; might prevent a stroke. Other than that, it seems the worst possible thing to do, weakening the body when
people most need their strength.
I decided to do a quick check. The practice of bloodletting seemed logical when the foundation of all medical treatment was based on the four body humors: blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile. Health was thought to be restored by purging, starving, vomiting or bloodletting.
The art of bloodletting was flourishing well before Hippocrates in the fifth century B.C
And they were still doing it well into the 19th century. Aren't you sorry you asked, ELLA?
:)
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OH, ROSE! I need you every morning, your comment produced a smile, a chuckle!
Hi BABI, one is never to old learn new things even if they are old things. Thank goodness, we live in the age we do and medicine has progressed; nowadays we just swallow everything.
I think I'll start that book about the 1939 Worlds Fair that was built in Flushing Meadows in New Jersey; built on a dump.
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Yesterday, I began reading "Last Call". It is the story of prohibition in America. It is very interesting! Did any of you know that George Washington had a still on his farm? I didn't. By 1830 American adults were drinking, per capita, 7 gallons of pure alcohol a year.
Sheila
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Yes, those founders were NOT tea drinkers!
I'mm typing this on my new iPad!!! An early birthday present from my whole family! Yaaaaaa!
I know I'm in for days of fun, fun, fun!
Jean
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How fortunate you are, Jean. Congratulations on your new iPad!!
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Jean: let us know how it goes!!!
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I saw a program about Mt. Vernon and G.W.'s still oh, maybe last year. They were doing archeology with the hopes of resurrecting the still using his original formula. Well, I just looked it up on Google and discovered that the Grand Opening was in 2007. Here is the article from the Mt. Vernon website. http://www.mountvernon.org/pressroom/index.cfm/fuseaction/view/pid/1119/
I've only been to Mt. Vernon once, long, long ago. I have no recollection of who I was with, but it was a bus trip which included Madison's home and Monticello. I only remember the outside of the Washington's mansion. Madison's home was dark and like a regular house. Monticello was spectacular. I was quite taken by his inventiveness.
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I just finished The Monuments Men by Robert Edsel. Excellent, very readable and a whole different perspective on WWII and the stolen art in Northern Europe. I am also reading the Foxfire books, Volumes 10 thru 1; I'm going backwards through them. My current love, though is What Should I Do With The Rest of My Life? by Bruce Frankel. The people he has featured are amazing! I am an artist, a retired Special Education teacher. I have been slowly getting reinvolved in my art work over the past 10 years. I feel a new focus and dedication, a new inspiration, from reading about these people and their successes. Until now I had been interested only in finishing a few long-term projects, but now I have plans to go beyond that and find a new way of working. Mainly, I know I need to work smaller. I had always worked very big, but am ready to explore the world of small sculpture and painting. Fun!
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WELCOME JEANNETTI!! Did reading about our Robby in "What Should I Do..." bring you here? We just finished a discussion with the author, Bruce Frankel, and we are all inspired!
You're art work sounds very interesting! Tell us more.
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Welcome, Jeannettl. It's wonderful to have visual artists participate on our site. I think those of you who work in the visual arts bring different perspectives to our book discussions. That's interesting that you are contemplating a change in your artwork. I too will be interested to hear more.
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Welcome Jeannettl- what is your all-time favorite non- fiction book? How about the rest of you? I don't remember us having that discussion in here, but knowing Ella's questioning spirit, you must have.........lol.....Jean
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what is your all-time favorite non- fiction book?
While there are so many good ones Jean, I would have to say T. E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom. When I brought the oversized volume home from the library, Dad said I would never get through it - history was so "dry". Much to his surprise, I couldn't put it down, read the whole thing. Not only that, but I ended up reading his book The Mint and a another which was a volume of his correspondence with Robert Graves. I eventually traded those for a book called Arabia Deserta whose author I don't recall. This is the travelogue Lawrence read and valued prior to his stint in the Middle East. It was a bit boring or tedious so I never finished it. At any rate, Seven Pillars is the book I always think of first. It fired up my imagination and inspired my interest in international history. Surprisingly, given my interest in Roman history, I can't think of any book on that subject that comes near to how I feel about Seven Pillars of Wisdom.
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Hard to pick just one favorite isn't it, Frybabe? I've added your favorite, SEVEN PILLARS OF WISDOM, to my TBR List. Always meant to read this after seeing the movie made from it.
My two authors (tied for favorites) are Alan Watts' books, beginning with his ON THE TABOO AGAINST KNOWING WHO YOU ARE, and Joseph Campbell's THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES and THE MASKS OF GOD. Both these authors gave me a lot of insight and challenged my thinking about religion.
Another book that changed my life was Betty Friedan's THE FEMININE MYSTIQUE. It led me to get out of a marriage with a controlling husband, go to college and find a career of my own.
As a child my favorite books were those by Sir Richard F. Burton, the explorer, recommended by my grade school libarian.
Marj
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Excluding biographies, which I guess we should, maybe that's a question for another time, I think my favorite is "No OrdinaryTime" about ER & FDR during the war years. First, Doris Kearns Goodwin is one of my favorite historians and this book is particularly readable. It was almost like reading a novel. I also learned a lot about WWII on the " home front" .
The book that I also learned a lot from was by another woman historian, Mary Beard, "On Understanding Woman ." It is a survey history of western civ from a woman's perspective written in the 1930,s. Again a very readable book.
Marjifay- that 's a wonderful " book" story about FM. I'll bet that BF heard that often and each time it must have made her proud that she wrote the book. That book didn't change my lfe as dramatically as yours, but certainly did influence how I thought and lived, also.
Iread "7 pillars" in college, probably need to take another look at it.
Jean
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Jean, your mention of No Ordinary Time clicked something in my head. Looked at my list of books I own and sure enough I own this. Haven't read it, however, probably because it's such a long book--over 700 pages. But I loved Goodwin's Team of Rivals, also a biggie, so I should read this other, especially since I so admired Eleanor Roosevelt (and also Franklin).
One of my favorite biographies was Yankee from Olympus, the bio of Oliver Wendell Holmes by Catherine Drinker Bowen.
Another nonfiction book I really liked was The Tao of Physics; An Explanation of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism by Fritjof Capra (from my Eastern Mysticism period in the 1970s (LOL), but it is an interesting book).
Yes I'd thought of writing to thank Friedan, but never did. I figured she'd gotten many many letters of thanks, bless her heart.
Marj
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Just an FYI - the History Channel is reshowing " America, the Story of Us" They are at the turn into the 20 th century.........jean
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Marj: I still have the Tao of Physics, but it's been decades since I read it. Maybe it's time to reread.
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Boy, I sure couldn't pick an all-time favorite non-fiction. But I agree with marjifay about "The Hero With a Thousand Faces". It's relevant to all sorts of stuff.
I very much like the books by Stephen Jay Gould, most of them collections of short articles, ranging all over the place from how people mis-used science for racist purposes, to how the extra bone in the panda's thumb is evidence for evolution, to a statistical analysis of the shrinking size and increasing cost of the Hershey Bar.
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For those of you who were in the Audubon discussion, I just saw on the news tonight that JA's " Birds of North America" is the most expensive book in the world - $9,000,000!!! Wouldn't James be pleased and his poor long- suffering wife, who was always begging him for money? What would she say?
Jean
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What wonderful ideas for books to read. I've written them down! If you were to ask me "right now and with little thought" about nonfiction I remember having read I would say WEST WITH THE WIND by Beryl Markham (don't know why); Aryn Rand's The FOUNTAINHEAD; the playwright and memoirist Neil Simon (never have forgotten he wrote his first play over 28 times never using the same word twice - imagine); JOHN ADAMS by McCullough, because it took us six weeks to discuss on Seniornet (our former home); all of Doris Kearns Goodwins (she writes so well) - there are so many more if I had time to think. I've also read all of David McCullough's books.
Books about FDR, Abraham Lincoln, the founding fathers. I simply cannot remember their titles.
At the moment I am listening to REVOLUTIONARY CHARACTERS by Gordon Wood. It's very good, and even though you have read about most of them, there are always little new things you learn.
NEwspapers proliferated and doubled in size throughout the colonies in one year from 1799 to 1800 and now ordinary people (not the wealthy - particularly the influential planters of VA) could read and discuss national issues. It made a huge difference in politics as you can imagine.
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9 million dollars, JEAN! Wow! I know Harold led a discussion on Audobon's life some time (years) ago. Where is Harold? We haven't heard from him in a long time!!!!
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Life is full of surprises. Yesterday I found out that my friend and painter/carpenter, Mark Adams, has traced his ancestry to THE John Adams! We are on Cape Cod, not very far from Quincy and other nearby towns where the family lived. We have eaten at a restaurant across the road from the Barnstable County Courthouse, where John Adams worked when he rode on the circuit court, prior to serving in the Continental Congress.
That inspires me to re-read the wonderful biography of John Adams by David McCullough. I also enjoy all the books, especially Albion's Ways, the Four Folkways, by the historian David Hackett Fischer.
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I love hearing David McCoullough talk about history. I always feel like I'm in my living room talking with a friend and I loved the JA book, but I gave up on the Brooklyn Bridge book about 3/4' s of the way thru. It just seemed to be dragging and repetitive. Which may have been the way it was, but I didn't feel the need to slog along with them....... :)......Jean
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For those dog lovers! I picked up a delightful book ( its an old one) about unconditional love between a stray and very ill beagle pup and a journalist. Its mostly set in Paris but the journalist was American. It is called "Laurens story" An American Dog in Paris. The author is Kay Pfaltz. If you love dogs and want to know more about the REAL Paris this book is truly a delightful light read. I got my copy in large print. I borrowed the copy I read from one of our smaller branch libraries in a semi rural area.
Carolyn
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I'm just dropping in to talk of two NF books on my list. Scott Simon, host of NPR's Weekend Edition on Saturday mornings, has written about his adoption of two Chinese orphans. Describing the other parents-to-be he and his wife were traveling to the orphanage with:
Most of us had probably tried to start families in the traditional manner. For one reason or another, the traditional result was not achieved.
Baby We Were Meant For Each Other is the title.
Let me quote NPR: John Vaillant's The Tiger is part natural history, part Russian history and part thriller; it tells a gripping and gory story of what it's like to stalk — and be stalked by — the largest species of cat still walking the Earth.
Not your usual history and biography but I thought you may be interested in them.
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My latest acquisitions from the used book store:
Of Making Many Books by Roger Burlingame
Lafayette, A Life by Andreas Latzko (translated from German by E. W. Dickes)
Adrienne, The Life of the Marquise De La Fayette by Andre Maurois (translated by Gerard
Hopkins)
This week my PBS station had a program on about Lafayette. It reminded me of the two books I had seen last time I was in the book store. Of course I had to stop in and pick them up. It helped that there is a 50% sale on non-fiction this week.
I was excited to find Burlingame's book. It is printed on heavy stock with watermarking like the Eaton stationary I loved as a teenager. It's about the Charles Scribner and Sons publishing empire and their stable of authors. My book was published in 1946 and I paid $4 for it. I Googled and discovered that Penn State University has published a 1996 edition. Of course it is very expensive.
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Carolyn - i sent your comment along to a friend who loves dog stories. She's going to check out her library for it. ........jean
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I saw the program on Lafayette. He had a very interesting life. Let us know if the biography is good.
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In case anyone might be interested, I just joied a Yahoo group that is going to read the Koran in November -- The Quran Reading Group. They are an offshoot of Yahoo's Great Conversation group. To start things off, in October they will read the book, Muhammad; His Life Based on the Earliest Sources by Martin Ling.
It sounds like a group really interested in learning about Islam. The promotion for their group reads: "The Qur'an reading forum is a group dedicated to reading and discussing translations of the Qur'an from a non-religious perspective. The goal of the group is to critically explore the Qur'an, and Islam, and the history of the Islamic world, while attempting to always be respectful of the traditions of Islam. We will strive to always remain open to the beauty of the Qur'an and the historical and religious perspectives that the Qur'ran can offer us. However, we will at the same time remain open to respectful criticism of the Qur'an and the traditions of Islam, even criticism which might call into question some of the traditional views of the Qur'an."
Marj
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Marj: that sounds really good. How do I get into it?
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
JoanK: To find the Koran reading group, try this:
Go to Yahoo and type in "Find a yahoo group"
Click on "Yahoo! Groups -- join or create groups"
Type in "quranreadingforum"
(I'm terrible with computers -- but this worked for me)
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I found a new site for history resources and while reading a link came across this paragraph
"Not since 1820 has feminine apparel been so frankly abbreviated as at present; and never, on this side of the Atlantic, until you go back to the little summer frocks of Pocahontas. This year's styles have gone quite a long step toward genuine nudity. Nor is this merely the sensible half of the population dressing as everyone ought to, in hot weather. Last winter's styles weren't so dissimilar, except that they were covered up by fur coats and you got the full effect only indoors. And improper costumes never have their full force unless worn on the street ."
Wanna guess what period of time he was talking about?.........Jean
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no guesses, jean - but probably well before the 21st Century.
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It's from a New Republic article from 1921, could have been written in the1970's or in the 1990's. history does repeat itself, uh? see it here,
O
http://faculty.pittstate.edu/~knichols/flapperjane.html
It's a fun read.......read or scroll to the bottom for other interesting articles around the same time. Wait till you see what can happen to if you listen to jazz.........you're going straight to hell! ........Jean
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I could have sworn that vwas written today. I'm embarrassed to look at some of the people I see on the street.
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I just pretend I am not seeing "Muffin top" and "Money Box" jeans on the street. Oooooh not a good look. But I do love thongs. Dialect alert: thongs in Australia are not the same as they are in US.
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OK, roshanarose, what are thongs for you?
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I was hoping you'd bite, PatH. Thongs are footwear here. You may call them flip flops.
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Joan - it certainly could have been written today. We seem to be getting closer and closer to nudity. Some of the clothes are so tight, they might as well not be wearing them. Did anybody see the woman m.c. on Dancing W/ the Stars last night? Holy Smokes!
But i tho't it was cute to see how these issues just keep recurring over and over.......the kids are worse then ever, what will become of them, the hair is "wrong" whatever wrong happened to be at the time, the music!!!! Oh, has every generation of parents tho't their childrens' music was horrific? I had to laugh at the next article that talked about how "sinful" sycopation was. The article said that one dance hall would only allow the waltz and the one-step.......when only a generation or two before that tho't the waltz was sooooo risque..............that's part of the great fun of reading history............jean
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What gets me is that you see bare midriffs and cleavages all on show in the coldest winter weather! Wonder if these girls are constantly coming down with colds.
Carolyn
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Ah, women...of all ages...are too often the slaves of fashion...or at least the latest fad. Even
in the days when skirts were down to the ankles, the necklines were cut most revealingly low.
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I understand being fashionable and I have always been. But, I never understood uncomfortable. The only thing I ever wore that was uncomfortable was a girdle in the 50's and early 60's when I weighed all of 110 lbs. ??? ;D But, you know we weren't allowed to jinkle the least little bit!
Some of the young woman today look so uncomfortable in these HIGH heels and short, tight skirts. I remember in the 70's being in a mtg where someone made a remark that clogs - a fashion trend at the time - were designed by men who hate women. :)
I did have a pair AND twisted my ankle in them!
The gist of that 70's discussion was that women needed to be wearing shoes they could run in - for safety. Many of the outfits worn by women on tv today wouldn't pass that test! .....jean
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On bare midriffs -- I'll never forget going to a concert with friends. As people were filing in, a friend said "I've just seen my first sSenior bellybutton". Of couse, we couldn't wait for intermission to see this phenomenon, but it was never seen again (perhaps he was hallucinating."
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As teens today would say, "Ewwwww"! :o
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Not to forget the fashion among the guys. How about the pants that are look almost like skirts. Then there are the pants that are worn sooooo low that you see half their underpants. How do some of them stay up?
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JEAN, I'll never forget the day I was shopping for a new bra, and explained to the saleslady that I didn't want an underwire bra because they hurt. The woman looked at me and, so help me, said "Bras are supposed to hurt". I stared speechless and hurried away as though escaping a madwoman.
I don't know if some of those male designers hated women, but I have thought they wanted women to look sexy for men, and didn't care how uncomfortable the women were.
FRYBABE, on 'Who Wants to Be A Millionaire' yesterday, celebrity contestant Jean Smart said "There's a whole generation of young men with bad backs out there from trying to hold up those pants".
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That's a priceless but believable story, Babi.......I think many young women would say that about many fashions- bikini waxes? Hair in eyes? 5 inch heels? Worrying about whether people can see paradise when they sit in those short, tight skirts? ........one day on the Wendy Williams Show, Wendy introduced Patty Labelle. They both had on 5 in heels and very tight skirts. Wendy walked to the edge of a 6 inch step up to the set to help Patty make the step and they both waddled across the stage laughing about how they couldn't walk....Talk about sore backs.......Jean
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THE NATIONAL BOOKFEST WILL BE ON BOOKTV ALL DAY. The first guest is Ken Follett which is surprising to me as I always considered him as a fiction writer.
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Yes, Laura Bush has me in tears reading a section of her book about Sept 11......Ken Follet has a new novel which he is touting.......Jean
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I just looked up Ken Follett's new book (the first of a trilogy) on amazon - they want $19.99 for the Kindle edition. :o I think I can wait a while for that one.
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Babi and Mabel : My favourite story about the much ridiculed Paris Hilton (sorry Paris) is that when she was told that she had been accepted to star in the movie "House of Wax", she was delighted and gushed "ooooohhhh do they do Brazilian?" You had to be there.
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I really ignore all the hype about 'celebrities'. I really can't see why
people are interested. From what little does get through about
Paris Hilton, I begin to think she is simply being mocked and laughed at.
She brings it on herself, of course, but I feel it's just sad.
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It was only ever meant to be a joke, Babi. As for your putdown for people who are interested in the hype etc., I actually took that as an insult to my intelligence. You mistakenly judge me. Be careful being judgemental of those with whom you don't necessarily agree.
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Oh, dear, ROSE, I meant no insult to you or your intelligence whatsoever. My comment about
the celebrity following was puzzlement, not putdown. Everyone is perfectly free to disagree
with me; that's what makes a discussion. I'm sorry if I hit a sore spot.
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THE OTHER WES MOORE by Wes Moore
http://www.amazon.com/Other-Wes-Moore-Name-Fates/dp/0385528191/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285604403&sr=8-1
What a book, what tragic experiences young people, particularlly young black men, have on the streets of our poor neighborhoods.
I think this book should be required reading for all 6-7-8th graders, if the children get that far in school. What can one do to help? I want to help these children learn to read, appreciate reading. About 15-20 years ago I was a volunteer reading in an inner city school (now called disadvantaged neighborhoods?) once a week to 2nd graders. I was both encouraged and discouraged about the experience. I did that for two years and then tried volunteering for adults who had never learned to read through our local literary council. That, too, was not a good experience for me.
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I volunteered for the Literacy Council for many years, and had a very positive experience. I would highly recommend it to anyone who is looking to make a difference in someone's life. They teach classes for those who never learned to read, and also classes for immigrants who want to learn English. Anyone who criticizes immigrants for not speaking better English should see how hard my student worked, often missing sleep, to be able to function in an English-speaking environment.
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Some Republican Senators, namely Damint and other conservatives have just completely halted a bill to build a Women's History Museum in Washington. There is no cost to the gov't and taxpayers, it's all being done with private funds. Meryl Streep is chairing a group to push for people to sign a petition to the Senate to encourage them to just put it up for a vote. The House of Rep passed it unanimously, the committee passed it to the floor of the Senate unanimously, but each senator has the right to hold up any bill and Damint and some others are doing just that - there is no rhyme or reason...............to see more about the Museum and to sign the petition go to
www.nwhm.org.
if you are so inclinded...............jean
Report to moderator 173.72.94.72
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Peace, Babi :)
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Amen, ROSE
I signed that petition, JEAN. Since it is no cost to taxpayers, I would like to know what
Damint and his cronies object to. This is likely to come back and bite them.
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Since it is no cost to taxpayers, I would like to know what
Damint and his cronies object to. This is likely to come back and bite them.
I doubt it Babi.
I haven't found DaMint's objection to the bill, but the Senator from Oklahoma is concerned that it will cost the taxpayer "down the road". He may be right since the museum website states that they hope to affiliate with the Smithsonian once the museum is up an running. Does that mean they will then be able to dip into Federal dollars?
The other argument I saw was that some congressmen think that the Smithsonian should, themselves, set aside a site for women's history. The opposition says the Smithsonian is in need of big buck repairs, etc. and would not be able to afford to do that for some time to come.
Either way, at some time in the future it looks like the taxpayer will pay for some of this enterprise. I doubt that that will happen for a long time. By then the government may be better able to afford it.
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I guess it would depend, FRYBABE, on how many women get really, really mad at them. It's
impossible to say what public costs might arisie in the future, but I would think that a good
museum of women's history would get good financial support from donors. In the meanwhile,
it would offer some jobs getting it up and running, which is all to the good.
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I actually don't care if it costs the taxpayers some money, I just stated that because that's the biggest concern for conservative senators. Women have always tried to do things at as little cost as possible, we need to get over that in some instances. WE DESeRVE a museum! We make up more than half of the country and history from our perspective has been hugely neglected. So much of what people, especially children, visit in D.C. is from the white male perspective, about wars, for instance.
History is a lot more than war and politics, altho women have been there too. But, if we read the standard textbooks, we wouldn't know that and we - and children - need to know that we've been there at every step in U S history........Jean
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True, JEAN. Just about everything has been viewed and recorded from the male perspective,
throughout human history. Women are being heard from more and more over our own lifetimes; and isn't that a great thing for us? A museum of women's history would be a great
step forward and I don't doubt we will have it one of these days. Not today, apparently.
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Amazing (to me anyway) World War I officially ends on this coming Sunday when Germany pays the last payment of $59.5 million imposed on it after the war. I had no idea they were still paying this. From the UK Telegraph, 9/28:
<http://www.telegrap h.co.uk/news/ worldnews/ europe/germany/ 8029948/First- World-War- officially- ends.html>
Marj
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Marj, That was an interesting bit of news.
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Well, thank goodness we've stopped the hostilities. :)
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We're starting a series of 3-day discussions on Talking Heads. Anyone can suggest a topic from
whatever is going on that catches their interest. An article for reference is helpful; probably the
one that caught your eye.
Our opening discussion is on COMMERCIALS: GRINS OR GROANS. ELLA suggested that one. You can find it quickly via this link: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=1729.0
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MARJ: thank goodness that's over. You did sat WW ONE, not TWO. I have heard the onorous penalties imposed after WWI blamed for the rise of Hitler. They ceippled the German economy to the point where Germans were eager to accept anyone who could get them out ofthe mess. (too simplistic, of couese),
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We're discussing 'Pain' in Talking Heads right now. I'm sure everyone has experience with that.
If you come across any topic in the news that you'd like to discuss, do stop by and suggest it.
Right now we've got the next three lined up, but a bare larder after that.
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I have read two remarkable nonfiction books lately and, perhaps, someone might be interested.
The first is THE IMMORTAL LIFE OF HENRIETTA LACKS by Rebecca Skloot. It's a fascinating journey through the "colored" ward of Johns Hopkins Hospital in the 1950's to stark white laboratories with freezers full of HELA cells, immortal cells that Henrietta provided for research into vaccines and other research. Her cells are still being used internationally today. One paragraph"
""You better take me to the doctor. I'm bleedin and it ain't my time" Henrietta told her husband. Hopkins was one of the top hospitals for the sick and the poor and it covered more than a dozen acres where a cemetery and insane asylum once sat in East Baltimore. The public wards at Hopkins were filled with patients, most of them black and unable to pay their medical bills. David drove Henrietta nearly twenty miles to get there, not because they preferred it, but because it was the only major hospital for miles that treated black patients This was the era of Jim Crow-when black people showed up at white-only hospitals the staff was likely to send them away, even if it meant they might die in the parking lot."
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THE OTHER WES MOORE by Wes Moore: Great book.
From Booklist
*Starred Review* In 2000, Wes Moore had recently been named a Rhodes Scholar in his final year of college at Johns Hopkins University when he read a newspaper article about another Wes Moore who was on his way to prison. It turned out that the two of them had much in common, both young black men raised in inner-city neighborhoods by single mothers. Stunned by the similarities in their names and backgrounds and the differences in their ultimate fates, the author eventually contacted the other Wes Moore and began a long relationship. Moore visited his namesake in prison; he was serving a life sentence, convicted for his role in an armed robbery that resulted in the killing of an off-duty policeman. Growing up, both men were subject to the pitfalls of urban youth: racism, rebellion, violence, drug use, and dealing. The author examines eight years in the lives of both Wes Moores to explore the factors and choices that led one to a Rhodes scholarship, military service, and a White House fellowship, and the other to drug dealing, prison, and eventual conversion to the Muslim faith, with both sharing a gritty sense of realism about their pasts. Moore ends this haunting look at two lives with a call to action and a detailed resource guide. --Vanessa Bush
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Ella, I loved Henrietta Lacks - a surprisingly interesting read, with a fascinating story to tell.
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They both sound fascinating.
Johns Hopkins was "known" in local culture in the fifties and sixties as a place where Black women, coming in to give birth, had their tubes tied without their knowledge, and that "experimented" on Blacks. We didn't know the details, or even if it was true, but felt it was. I'd like to find out more about it.
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The OtherWesMoore is on my TBR list........jean
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I see my library has the Rebecca Skloot book. I'll have a look at it. Sounds good. No luck on
the Wes Moore story.
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-paraphrasing from the book THE IMMORTAL LIFE OF HENRIETTA LACKS
Johns Hopkins was born on a tobacco plantation in Maryland where his father later freed his slaves nearly 60 years before Emancipation. Hopkins made millions working as a banker, grocer, selling his own whiskey, but he never married and had no children. So in 1873 he donated $7 million to start a medical school and charity hospital and an additional 2 million worth of property and $20,000 in cash each year specifically for helping black children. He chose 12 men to serve as its board of directors and specified that the only patients to be charged were those who could easily afford it, but the purpose of the hospital was to help those who otherwise couldn't get medical care.
He died shortly thereafter but the board created one of the top medical schools in the country and the hospital's public wards provided millions of dollars in free care to the poor, many of them black.
These patients had to enter a segregated door and were placed in segregated wards for treatment. and the book tells many instances of experiments on black patients.
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However, the hospital became famous when I was a young mother in the 50's - a young ob/gyn doctor had graduated from Johns Hopkins and that was considered the very best. He was my doctor for years - many years until he retired when his wife died and the light went out of his life. I went to him for even little things like the flu, he was partially a friend.
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If you get a chance to see "Who Really Discovered America" on the History Channel, it's very interesting. It was especially interesting to me who for 22 yrs taught American history. For the first 6 yrs as a high school teacher, I taught the traditional story that Columbus "discovered" America, that Leif Erickson had gotten to at least Nova Scotia before 1492. For the next 16 yrs, as a college teacher, I taught that Asians came across the Bering Straits about 20,000 yrs ago and made their way down the western coast to the tip of Peru and across to the Atlantic coast. This program hypothesizes sev'l other possibilities: the Chinese, Japanese, Polynesians, Norse,Welsh, Irish, Hebrews. ...... Jean
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JEAN, whenever I learn of something like that, I have to believe we always underestimate our
early ancestors. Because they didn't have our 'modern' inventions, they must not have been
able to do much. Actually, some of them must have been just as curious, just as daring, just as innovative as their self-satisfied descendents.
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When I taught or when I give presentations related to history, I often say "As far as I know......." or "the general belief at this time is......." because there is so much historical research going on and expanding new technology gives us new info everyday.
And yes Babi, much of that new info reveals that we have underestimated our ancestors, sometimes GROSSLY underestimated them. Good point!..........jean
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Have any of you smart people with wide-ranging interests seen any subjects/articles lately
that you think would make a good discussion. We're devoting three days per topic currently on
Talking Heads and are currently talking about modern medical miracles. We're going to need
some new topics in a very short time, so do come by and take a look. If you have a topic,
please e-mail me about it. (Just click on my name on the Post. You'll find the address there.
Do, please, identify yourself in the subject line so I don't delete you. :-X)
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JEAN "When I taught or when I give presentations related to history, I often say "As far as I know......." or "the general belief at this time is......."
I wish all history teachers were as wise as you.
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Thanks Joan, but it just seemed like common sense to me.....Jean
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Who has common sense these days?
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Oh, come now, JOAN. Obviously, WE do. ;D ::)
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That's Pat this time. Don't mix us up just because we look alike. ;)
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On BookTV, they are showing George Mason U awarding Greg Mortensen, author of "Three Cups of Tea" the Fall of the Book prize. It is a wonderful program, if you get to see it - you can watch on line at BookTV - keep the tissue box close by.......Jean
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I've seen BookTV mentioned so many times. What channel carries it, JEAN? I don't think I've ever come across it, but it sounds like something I would like.
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Babi, BookTV is the weekend programming on C-Span2. Also, C-Span History (C-Span3?) sometimes does some book-type programs on the weekends.
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I don't think our 'package' includes C-Span2, MARY. I'll check with my daughter; she'll know.
(It's so handy having a smart daughter right here with me. ;D )
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Babi, if you don't have it, you can go to http://www.booktv.org/ and watch programs on line (and not have to do it on their TV schedule ;) )
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Thanks, Mary for that tip.
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Valerie found the station quickly, and it is available to us. BookTv apparently runs all day on
Saturday. Perfect, since Saturday offers very little I enjoy in TV. I'll do some exploring there
this weekend.
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Babi, BookTV goes from early Saturday morning until about 8 a.m. Monday - you can get the program schedule on their web site.
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Oh, my. I definitely need to check that schedule. I don't want to spend an entire weekend
with BookTV. I do have books to read, after all. ::)
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Goodnes, we don't want to be so busy listening to discussions of books that we don't have time to read them. That's like reading cookbooks and skipping lunch (which I've done).
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reading cookbooks and skipping lunch (which I've done).
Not me, JOANK. Reading cookbooks tended to make me hungry, so I'd likely go find a snack.
I don't read them anymore. Nowadays, "nice and easy does it every time". I find that song
more and more applicable as time goes by. ;)
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Babi, you dont't need to watch BookTV all weekend long The schedule is posted every week (and you can have them email it to you). The nice thing about having it all weekend long, is that many shows are repeated so you can pick a convenient time to watch. And some of them are recorded and marked "WATCH" so you can watch it anytime if you miss it.
Marj
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That is my intention, MARJ. I'm going to scan for book/topics that look interesting and watch
those.
We still have two weeks left to fill on '3-Day Wonders'. Those are three day discussions of
topics that are in the news or catching people's interest. We defiitely need some new topics, so
if something catches your eye, do come over and mention it, or e-mail me. (Click on my name
for the address.) We start a new one tomorrow..."Unjust Laws"...from the viewpoint of what
conscience would allow where they are concerned.
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I just got the Mark Twain Autobiography on my Kindle. Haven't started it yet - and John will probably get it read before I do.
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Mary, I have just seen the quote at the end of your message (The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time") - brilliant! Yesterday I stayed in bed till 9.30am to finish reading my novel - I don't think I've done that since I was a student! - felt so guilty afterwards, until my friend texted me to say she'd stayed in bed till 11.30am. We have resolved to do a Hearty Walk together, when it stops raining, to make up for all our sloth.
Rosemary
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Good for you, Rosemary! Guilt is a totally wasted effort (IMO) - never worth a minute of anybody's time. And we all need to take time to do things just because WE want to. ::)
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DITTO, DITTO to Mary's reply................jean
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Thanks both. I wonder why we do have this tendency to feel guilty about any self-indulgence? Is it something to do with having had children? My husband and children never seem to feel the least bit guilty in doing exactly what they like, and it's not just them; I have a great friend who is married to a farmer in Ireland - they don't have children, and I noticed when I last visited that although she does all the usual stuff - and works full-time - she is also quite happy to sit down and read her book during the day when at home, or to take herself off on a walk (they live in glorious countryside in County Waterford), whereas I was brought up by a mother who still, in her eighties, wouldn't dream of reading a novel until she's in bed (although doing the Telegraph crossword is OK).
I will try to take your advice and enjoy.
R
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Rosemary, wouldn't it be terrible to die and know that you'd mopped a floor rather than read a book. Horrors!
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I wonder why we do have this tendency to feel guilty about any self-indulgence?
Rosemary, while I can't speak for everyone, in my case it was ingrained early that I should think of others first. Mom was big on sharing and being fair. I may have gone overboard with that, though. It took George, when I was in my mid-thirties, to teach me that I should include myself in the ratio. With my very limited funds while in college, his stock question when we went shopping was "Who are you buying that for?" I was constantly picking stuff up for gifts to others, never spending on myself. He also forced me, in his own way, to make decisions for myself. He would refuse to give an opinion or present an option if he thought I was simply going to do what he wanted, rather than consider what I wanted. Smart guy.
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My congratulations to you, and a round of applause to George. I have tended to put myself
last, but I at least didn't leave myself out entirely. I sometimes buy the pizza I like. ::)
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Now I AM getting hungry!! Since I got laid-off, the weekly pizza run has been cut way back to about once a month.
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I, too, put myself at the bottom of the "to do" list. My time for me was always supposed to happen, after I did all of the things I must do for others. Somehow, I always was exhausted, or sick, by the time I got close to my name on my list. I finally went for some therapy, and learned to take time for me. What a Godsend!
I only answer the door, and the phone when it is convenient to do so. I take the time in the mornings to check in with myself to decide what fits for me, for that day. I am enjoying this time of my life, more than any other. To my surprise, when I was in therapy, I discovered that I knew far more about what my family, and my friends liked, than I did about what I enjoyed. That is sad.
The only real treat I have given myself during my lifetime has been reading. Thank God, I did have one outlet. Oh, and movies. I was an only child, and my parents taught me to put other people first. No one ever told me that I counted, too. No one ever asked me what I wanted. So, I finally learned to ask myself.
Sheila
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Sheila, that is really interesting. I remember reading a book once that said things like "What is your favourite colour? - not your husband's/children's/mother's/boyfriend's, but yours?" - and although I could just about manage the colour question, when it came to anything more complex I was stuck. I have been in a dilemma for some time now, in that my husband works in Edinburgh (his choice), our house is on the market (but not selling), my friends all tell me not to move, my husband has reached the point (after months of my worrying and indecision) where he says I should do what I want to do - and I don't know what I want to do! Of course I do have my children, more specifically my 12 year old daughter, to consider, so I really can't just say "I want to do this or that", but it's hard to unpick my interests from everyone else's. I don't want to feel that I never took a chance (I think if it was somewhere grotty and not Edinburgh, things would be a lot clearer) but I don't want to regret taking it either. I think it's the fact that I am responsible for this decision - whereas most of the previous changes in my life have been brought about by inescapable circumstances. So it's scary but also exhilarating in a way - though at the moment totally academic as no buyer in sight. Any advice on how to make decisions much appreciated!
And good on you not always answering the phone - since I got number display I too am very picky, and am always screaming at the children "Don't pick it up if it's X"!
Rosemary
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Rosemary, I just picked up on your name. Do you live on Skye? We loved it there. And were lucky, we had gorgeous weather when we were in the Highlands 2-3 years ago.
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I never wanted a portable phone, even before I reached the point I couldn't use one anyway.
I'm sure it would have been different if they had been available back when I was raising three
kids and running all over the place. By the time they were plentiful and popular, I really didn't
want to be 'available' at all times to anyone who called. 'Hey, leave a message, I'll get back to
you eventually.' (Unless, of course, you're selling something.) ;)
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Rosemary - when my kids have a tough decision to make, I tell them to make four lists: pluses and minuses of each side of the decision, then take a look at what minuses they might be able to change to a neutral or a plus, now which list is longer?......I think it makes you feel like you have more control over the decision. ..........good luck...
Sheila, sounds like you found a good therapist, that's not always easy to do......Jean
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I am reading a most interesting non-fiction book about the Redwoods in CA. plus other places in the world. Did you know that there are canopies so large that one can walk around in them?? That there are many different species of plants and animals living in them??
I have found this book to be exciting with the true stories of the tree climbers who are not only climbing these trees but also writing books about them.
The title is: "The Wild Trees, A Story of Passion and Daring" by Robert Preston.
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That sounds like a great book. I love trees.
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Sounds like a good book, ANN! Isn't it great to run across a book that arouses our interest and our passion. Nature, trees, springtime, fall. How great it is!
That name - the author - Robert Preston - an actor?
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I love trees, too. I would never have thought a book could be written about them,
other than a textbook, that is, for the forester/farmer/ranger. A quick check of my library
catalog revealed that they had an audio of it, which they no longer have. Apparently someone
failed to return it or something happened to it. I have no idea why it's still listed.
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I was listening the other day on the radio to a man talking about a famous huge tree in Scotland, so low and spread out that large groups used to secretly gather under its branches and plot against someone, don't remember who..the British? Will have to look that up.
When I was young, I used to memorize poems just for fun. One was Trees by Joyce Kilmer. I think that I shall never see, a poem as lovely as a tree...
Marj
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I am having a ball reading this book and am reading it slow so that I don't get to the end too quickly. Its a spiritual thing to love a tree, isn't it?
I have recommended it to my brother who is a redwood tree lover. I know he will enjoy it. We went to the rain forest in Olympic National Park but they were having a serious drought that year and we all were so disappointed. (1988)
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Even more than spiritual. Trees have always provided us with food and shelter. Some would have us believe that trees were our first home. So the spiritual may be a secret longing. One hears of people talking to trees.
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At their simplest, trees have such magnificence and splendor, especially at this time of year. As I sit here looking out my window, I can see dozens of trees that are 10 to 30 ft tall, with leaves the colors of greens, golds, yellows, reds, burgundy and purple, and of multiple shapes, and bark textures. That scene of the trees is on my "things to be happy for today" list! ......Jean
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One hears of people talking to trees.
I love trees and talk to them all the time. Twice each year - in spring and in autumn - we go south into our forests. It's simply magical to see, touch and hear the majestic eucalypts and to experience the silence of the old growth forests. The trees take on a new persona with each season as their colours change - not in the leaves as deciduous trees do - but in the bark and the understories of smaller plants and wildflowers and yes even the debris on the forest floor ( which I sometimes use as subject matter for painting). I've been in the forest in burning heat and in the cold and pouring rain and always it is a delight. The weather conditions just add another different dimension.
A few years ago - maybe ten - Aussie writer, Murray Bail wrote a charming and very witty novel called Eucalyptus in which he features a good number of the 1500 species of eucalypt indigenous to this country. They take on their persona as he describes their form and habits, uses etc. and uses them throughout to tell a tall tale of an unusual courtship. It won the prestigious Miles Franklin Award and others prizes as well. Murray Bail is something of a stylist and his writing has a certain elegance to it. Here's a brief passage taken at random:
The stillness of the trees had a calming effect. Yet she almost let out an animal cry of some kind, in despair. And as the evenly spaced trunks multiplied on both sides and behind, she felt vague pleasure.
Silver light slanted into the motionless trunks, as if coming from narrow windows. The cathedral has taken its cue from the forest. The vaulted roof soaring to the heavens, pillars in smooth imitation of trees, even the obligatory echo, are calculated to make a person feel small, and so trigger feelings of obscure wonder. In cathedral and forest making even a scraping noise would trample soft feelings. For this reason, Ellen unconsciously continued on tiptoe.
I couldn't say how many times I've experienced feelings akin to those expressed in that passage when out among the trees, cut off from all distractions other than those living, breathing. beautiful and sometimes magnificent things we call trees..
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I couldn't resist browsing more of Eucalyptus ... this is just a couple of pages in from the beginning...
"We might as well turn to the rarely sighted Eucalyptus pulverulenta which has an energetic name and curious heart shaped leaves, and is found only on two narrow ledges of the Blue Mountains. What about diversifolia or transcontinentalis? At least they imply breadth and richness of purpose. Same too with E. globulus, normally employed as a windbreak. A solitary specimen could be seen from Holland's front verandah at two o'clock, a filigree pin greyish-green stuck stylishly in a woman's felt hat, giving stability to the bleached and swaying vista.
Each and every eucalypt is interesting for its own reasons. Some eucalypts imply a distinctly feminine world (Yellow Jacket, Rose-of-the-West, Weeping Gum). e. maidenii has given photogenic shade to the Hollywood stars. Jarrah is the timber everyone professes to love. Eucalyptus camaldulensis? We call it River Red Gum. Too masculine, too overbearingly masculine; covered in grandfatherly warts and carbuncles, as well. As for the Ghost Gum ( E. papuana ) there are those who maintain with a lump in their throats it is the most beautiful tree on earth, which would explain why it's been done to death on our nation's calendars, postage stamps and tea towels. Holland had one marking the north-eastern corner, towards town, waving its white arms in the dark, a surveyor's peg gone mad."
I think I'll reread this one. It's a novel - not non-fiction - didn't realise what board I was on. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it here - sorry.
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Trees fascinate me as well. I love the connections of trees with folklore. Did you know that the Druids worshipped Oak trees? Of course you did. But did you also know that word Dru is Ancient Greek for tree. Just love those connections, unfortunately with this one I have never been able to track down why??? This is one explanation I just found. Search for dru greek.
"Many scholars, who have endeavored in the past to solve word derivations, have concluded the meaning of the word Druid comes from a contraction of two Indo-European, i.e. two Sanskrit words. The two Sanskrit words Druid is said to derive from are deru meaning oak, and vid meaning wisdom. The first person to postulate this was the ancient-Roman scholar, Pliny the Elder. He made this assumption while, ostensibly, endeavoring to explain Druidism to his contemporaries. In Pliny's descriptions of the beliefs and actions of Druids, among other things, he noted they had a reverence for oaks and proposed the title of Druid derived from the word oak. Just as Stoicism was a current Greek and Roman Phenomenon in Pliny's time, Druidism was a current Celtic phenomenon.
It should be pointed out, however, that it was the ancient-Greek word for both tree and oak which was dru. This was not the word for oak in the languages of the Gaels, the Gauls, the Galicians, or the Galatians. Considering this, Pliny’s explanation seems convenient, and a little near-sighted. Pliny the Elder, as a learned Roman, would have been very familiar with the Greek language. Dru was the word for tree and oak to the Greeks, but not to the Celts. Perhaps Pliny was misinformed, and guessing to some extent, about Druids."
Footnote: You may have heard the word "torc" used by Celts to describe a bracelet or neckpiece with animal finials such as horses, rams, lions etc. The Greek were wearing these long before the Celts. I actually have one - it is my favourite piece and I plan to be buried with it - it is a 18kt gold hand-made twisted bracelet torc with ram's heads. I bought it in Olympia.
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HOW INTERESTING A HISTORY OF A WORD, ROSE!
THANK YOU!
HAS ANYONE READ A GOOD NONFICTION BOOK LATELY THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD DISCUSSION?
I SEE JONATHAN POSTING - ANY IDEAS COME TO MIND?
I AM READING A BOOK - A HUGE BOOK, TOO LARGE TO RECOMMEND - BUT IF READ A CHAPTER AT A TIME, IT'S FASCINATING.
AMERICAN CAESARS by igel Hamilton, a British historian.
He asserts that America became a world leader after WWII and has modeled this book after the LIVES OF ILLUSTRIOUS MEN by Suetonius in which he recounted the lives of the first twelve Caesars of Rome.
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Ella - The romance of words is the only real romance I have these days, but it sustains me and stays with me like no other romance could.
Interesting your comments about Suetonius' Caesars, one of my favourite books. I have a friend who some years ago was joining the Federal Government Senate. He was the Democrats representative for Queensland, Rev John Woodley. I gave him a copy of Suetonius' "Twelve Caesars" to prepare him for the cut and thrust of Australian Politics.
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HAS ANYONE READ A GOOD NONFICTION BOOK LATELY THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD DISCUSSION?
Sure Ella. But I must tell you that much of my reading starts with the books I read about here. American Caesars is one I'm going to look for. But today I caught the spirit and went looking for The Wild Trees and Eucalyptus. I found neither and setled for Bill Bryson's A Walk in the Woods. Great stuff. I always have wanted to walk that Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Maine. How interesting to read that
Once , aeons ago, the Appalachians were of a scale and majesty to rival the Himalayas - piercing, snow-peaked, pushing breathtakingly through the clouds to heights of four miles or more.
Gumtree,I shouldn't be surprised to hear that you commune with your beloved trees. You have talked about them in the past. Please send me a calendar featuring The Ghost Gum. And I wouldn't mind seeing a picture a River Red Gum, warts and all. LOL.
I did consider reading Dante's Comedy, which, after all, does start off with:
Midway on our life's journey, I found myself in dark woods, the right road lost. To tell about those woods is hard - so tangled and rough and savage that thinking of it now, I feel the old fear stirring...
Alone in the dark woods can be scary. On the other hand Brother Lawrence, the 17c mystic found his way to God, after.
...seeing, in the winter, a tree stripped of its leaves and considering that within a little time the leaves would be renewed, after that the flowers and fruit appear, he recieved a high view of the Providence and Power of God, which has never since been effaced from his soul.
How's that for finding the spiritual in trees?
Two other books I'm reading with interest:
Mutual Contempt: Lyndon Johnson, Robert Kennedy, and the Feud that defined a Decade, by Jeff Shesol. And,
The Most Famous Man in America: The Biography of Henry Ward Beecher, by Debby Applegate.
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How lovely to read about nature here. After the politiking is over and the quiet descends again over the land we need a break and a walk is just the thing.
The woods always reminds me of Robert Frost's poetry which we all know:
"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;"
and
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
But isn't it nice to read his poems again and isn't it strange that one author can talk about the woods being lovely, dark and deep and another author feeling lost and fear rising.
Both moods understandable.
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JONATHAN, you will like the American Caesars book, in which your British historian (who published a 2-volume book on Bill Clinton and a bestselling book on JFK -made into a miniseries) decides that some of our presidents are to be deified, some respected, some ignored and some reviled. Guess which is which?
I skimmed the LBJ chapter and there is little reference to Bobby Kennedy in it other than they hated each other, saying very nasty things. Kennedy described LBJ as "mean, bitter, viscious-an animal in many ways, a carnivore able to eat people up and even people who are considered rather strong figures, etc."
"Johnson may have been an animal, but whatever ws said of him, he was the leader who had brought the country together after his predecessor's shocking assassination and who had used the tragedy to push a liberal agenda through Congress in posthumous homage to JFK."
In reading this chapter I am reminded of our present conflict in the Middle East, such phrases as America having a fantasy of pushing democracy on a nation by force- an unjust war - we seem to be caught in a sinkhole - the leaders of the tragedy unable to confess to failure - the great lesson of war is that it is far easier to get into hostilities than out of them. The whole chapter about Vietnam is very sad.
South Vietnam did not want the war to end - they were being protected by 500,000 soldiers and the money flowing in like gold? I think of the millions, billions (?) we are spending in Iraq and Afghanistan and of what history will reveal about this war.
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Jonathon,
You haven't been able to find "The Wild Trees" by Robert Preston?? My copy came from my library. Let's see, you are in Canada?? Is that right? Seems like it would have been published there.
I am now going to look for "Eucalyptus", Gum. I hope it has been published here!
Rose,
I love your burial accoutrement'. How very regal!
I did know about the Druid connections and also their connections to another tree, the Rowan or Rowen tree( also called "Mountain Ash" as is the Eucalyptus), which was used for keeping evil spirits away from homes plus it is supposed to strengthen your spirit and make you more positive. Read a very interesting description of that here on the net last week.
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Adoannie: Just for the record Mountain Ash is only one species of Eucalypt. In Aust. we have around 1500 species - some are no more than straggly groundcovering plants whilst others are majestic towering giants - and we have all sizes and shapes in between of course.
Good luck in finding Murray Bail's Eucalyptus - it's quirky, funny and has a distinctly Aussie flavour - you'll learn more about gumtrees than you ever wanted to know and all painlessly.
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Hi Gum,
I just finished another book last week entitled "In A Sunburned Country" by Bill Bryson and was just delightful. I believe Jonathan is reading another of Bryson's books, "A Walk in the Woods" which we read online early in the beginning of B&L on SN.
In "The Wild Trees", the author is one of the four man group who go to look at the tallest Eucalyptus tree up north of Sydney?? or is it Melbourne? Well, wherever.
Have you ever seen our tree sitters over here??? They are so in love with our wild trees that some of them have done 2 yr sit-ins to save one tree. Julia Butterfly Hill wrote a book about her tree sit-in and I read that about 2 yrs ago. Very intriguing. She had much support from friends who kept her spirits up. They brought food to her often also. She has become quite popular and gives seminars about her tree awareness.
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I have two charming books about trees: "Meetings With Remarkable Trees" and "Remarkable Trees of the World" by Thomas Pakenham (AKA 8th Earl of Longford). They consist of Pakenham's photographs of these magnificent beings, with a page or so of comment on each. He goes for magnificent, ancient trees with huge blasted trunks and massive limbs. The cover of trees of the world gives a notion of what he likes:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Hit-WXLW_WEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=thomas+pakenham&source=bl&ots=0XAmdq7B2_&sig=HvzRAAzC5GUJxEnioYTFsS2PNRM&hl=en&ei=pyzTTISNDMGblgf905GMDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=13&ved=0CEAQ6AEwDA#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=Hit-WXLW_WEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=thomas+pakenham&source=bl&ots=0XAmdq7B2_&sig=HvzRAAzC5GUJxEnioYTFsS2PNRM&hl=en&ei=pyzTTISNDMGblgf905GMDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=13&ved=0CEAQ6AEwDA#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Marjifay, "Meetings" has what I suspect is your tree. It's the Whittinghame Yew, whose "...branches form a vast drooping dome 60 feet high and 400 feet in circumference." Supposedly Lord Morton (owner of the estate) plotted the murder of Mary Queen of Scots' second husband, the Earl of Darnley, in this cavern. The picture makes it look big enough to hold a banquet in, much less plot a murder.
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I see that if you scroll down in that link you get a number of his pictures.
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Jonathan, no matter how many times I read it, I still get goosebumps at the opening to "Inferno". What translation is that?
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I love not only to look at trees, but to listen to them. Someone said that there are three great sounds in nature: the ocean, the sound of rain, and the sound of a breeze in the woods. I'm with the person quoted above who walked on tiptoes.
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I was able to order Eucalyptus by clicking on the Amazon button above. I went for "like new", and paid $4 + shipping, but they have it for 90 cents.
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Oh, good, Joan, I'll borrow it when you're done.
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I'll be interested to know just how Eucalyptus 'translates' for an American reader. The prose is rather spare and understated but for an Aussie carries a wealth of meaning. - as does the humour.
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Wow!, PAT. That photo certainly puts things in perspective, doesn't it. The tree's root is bigger than the man. I've seen apartment
buildings that were smaller. I had no idea yews grew so huge.
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I just purchased the Immortal Life of Henrietta Lack, the story of a black woman whose cells were harvested 60 years ago and were vital in the research for polio vaccine and the spear heading of researach in IVF. Has anyone read this yet?
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Alf, I loved Henrietta Lacks! I read it because we were trying to get the author to speak at our Friends of the Library meeting. That didn't work out, but I'm so glad I read the book. It's a fascinating story and reads quite easily. The writer has been interviewed on BookTV - you might be able to find it on their web site archives.
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HI ALF! Yes, I have read and enjoyed the Henriette Lacks book. In fact, I think I bought it and it is sitting peacefully on my shelves somewhere. We discussed the book here in Nonfiction sometime ago.
I just finished reading THE COLOR OF WATER by James McBride, which I believe was discussed on our old SN site? I had missed it - it was wonderful!
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Pat, the Dante quote is from Robert Pinsky's translation of The Inferno. Wasn't that great artistry to begin such a momentous journey in a dark woods?
Thanks for the link to those magnificent trees. Awesome. But beautiful? I want to see the Ghost Gum before I make up my mind.
Joan,you're right about those three great sounds in nature. I've enjoyed them all. Doesn't Henry Beston have a good impression of a great wave heard in his little house behind the dune on Cape Cod? As for the wind in the woods...ah, the moaning and sighing in the treetops over ones head, on the trail, at night, in ones sleeping bag. And the trees become moving shadows. Frightening. And then those first ominous drops of rain on the canvas. We're in for a long night.
Gumtree, with every post Eucalyptus sounds better and better. How does Aussie understatement compare with the English variety? Humour with meaning. I'm hooked. I'll find the book.
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Jonathon: My what a time I've had finding images of ghost gums for you.
Here's a site which has a lot of photos - if the link works...
http://www/redbubble.com/explore/ghost+gum+tree
and likewise one for the River red gum
http://www.bluegumpictures.com.au/collections/australia_victoria_outback_hattahkulkynemurraykulkynenationalparks020.php
The ghost gum takes its popular name from the paleness of the bark which stands out dramatically depending on the light - a night they can be quite awesome.
The River Red Gum often grows along water courses and live to great ages - we have lost many stands of aged trees during the past 10-15 years of drought. Fortunately the drought has been broken and their habitat is well flooded this year - given water they germinate readily so hopefully we will not lose the species this time round.
Australian artists love to paint the gums - they all have a persona so to speak and our great artists have painted them over and over. I like to dabble with oils myself and have painted both these species - the red growing out water and the ghost gum's glowing white trunk growing out of red rock -so striking that one can't resist trying to get it down on canvas.
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Alas, GUM, my Internet Explorer could not show me the gum trees. I'll have to go looking for
myself. Combine my love of trees with my huge curiosity bump, and, well.... :P
http://www.touringaustralia.de/Trees/GhostGum.php
See if this one works. Beautiful, graceful tree.
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Jonathan: "Doesn't Henry Beston have a good impression of a great wave heard in his little house behind the dune on Cape Cod?"
Ah, yes, in "The Outermost House" one of my favorite books. The one I reread when I'm feeling frazzled. (I think it's time to read it again!) If any of you don't know it, he built a house at the end of Cape Cod, when it was still empty of people, and lived there for a year, describing what he saw. If you love the ocean, you'll love this book.
I couldn't see Gum's trees either, but could see Babi's. How beautiful. The bark reminds me of New England's white birches, but the shape of the tree and leaves are different.
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The "Top End" encompasses North Queensland, up and around Cairns. I had the pleasure of visiting Cairns last year and there is such lushness of vegetation there as well as a lot of crocodiles.
At this time of year the Jacarandas are blooming everywhere. Although not native to Australia they look splendid with the surrounding natives. The poincianas (also not native)will be blooming next in their red splendour, they always remind me of exotic dancers.
This one I took in a nearby suburb.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roxanataj/2009304406/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roxanataj/2009304406/
A bit of trivia for you: The Jacaranda is Russell Crowe's favourite tree. I know this because a man who designed and made some mirrors for us, was asked to create a glass door surround incorporating a jacaranda design for Russell's property at Nana Glen. He used to talk to Meg Ryan while he was working on the surrounds, said she was very quiet and sweet. Russell, he told us, is a very down-to-earth bloke and easy to get on with. This was about the same time that Russell got into an argument with some locals in Coff's Harbour, a nearby pub, and made headline news. The glassmaker showed us some pix of the door and it was truly splendid.
Although the jacaranda and poinciana are not native to Australia, I regard them as exotic, beautiful and showy foreigners, and of course magnificent trees.
This is one I took in a park.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roxanataj/1583222967/
Albert Namatjira, an aboriginal artist, used the ghost gum as a favourite subject.
http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/art/namatjira.php
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G'rrr so my links don't work - I'm not really surprised as my computer keeps 'freezing' - was a problem all last week and again once or twice today ... sorry
but thanks to Babi - at least there is one pic of a ghost gum for you Jonathan. There are many shapes and sizes with them and also the bark colour ranges from just light tones to a brilliant dazzling white - they stand out in the landscape and are awesome when seen against a purplish blue sky.
And thanks too, Roshanarose for posting that one of Namatjira's watercolour... I'd like to find one of Hans Heysen's ghost gums but I think the copyright police have them in custody... :D
The jacarandas are just beginning to show their flowers here - a little later than in your neck of the woods... poincianas are not common in Perth but those we have don't show their glory until January into February.
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Wow! Such arboreal splendour. How these lovely trees just lift ones spirits with their aspiring, whirling limbs. And the comments:
the ghost gum...brilliant, dazzling white against a purplish blue sky
the poincianas in their red splendour, they always remind me of exotic dancers
and I can just see the possums taking that scenic route into your kitchen, roshanarose
Ah, to be in Australia in the springtime. What a gorgeous landscape!
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The trees are beautiful. The Jacaranda trees look like some we used to see in Tampa, Florida when our daughter lived there some years ago. Now I will have to do some research to see if those lavender trees were Jacaranda. Thanks for those links.
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The trees are beautiful. We have Jacaranda trees here (Southern California) but due to the local custon of pruning the trees back every year so they never get too tall or full (grrrr), they aren't a gorgeous as yours.
I fooled around to get another of the artists paintings of a ghost gum:
http://www.nga.gov.au/namatjira/detail/sapling.htm (http://www.nga.gov.au/namatjira/detail/sapling.htm)
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
GumI did find a link for Hans Heysen. Gorgeous watercolours. Ghost gums as well.
http://www.artgallery.sa.gov.au/agsa/home/Learning/docs/Online_Resources/Heysen_Trail.pdf
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I'm watching Nigel Hamilton on BookTV talking about his latest book, American Caesars, about the 12 presidents since WW2 (Roosevelt through W). I've just put it on reserve at our library. Sounds fascinating
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Thanks JoanK for the Namatjira image - He was an iconic indigenous painter working in the European way and his work is unmistakable.
Roshanarose: Thanks - I found that Heysen link but it wouldn't load properly - my computer problem I think. - hasn't got the image I wanted either - there's one of Heysen's everyone uses or copies for postcards showing ghost gums in all their glory.
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Maryz - I think that I will add that one to my TBR.
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Ooh, the jacaranda is gorgeous! They resemble our crepe myrtles, but more vivid in color. And the trees in Namatjira's painting are so beautiful. No wonder we love trees!
Lavender is one of the crepe myrtle colors, JEAN, and I'm sure you must have some in Fla. The
blossoms are almost identical to the jacaranda. (I wonder if it is the same tree?)
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Babi - I'm following you around tonight... I have a crepe myrtle and three jacarandas in my yard - the flowers are similar but far from being the same. They are two distinct genus - jacaranda mimosifolia is the blue flowered one which does so well here but being blue flowered it originally hails from South America. The crepe myrtle - lagerstoemia is from Asia and also does well here.
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ROSE, beautiful watercolors! I think I could just pick up one of those onions, peel it and slice it. And the gum trees. I remember years ago in college I signed up for an art class and the instructor sat us down by a stream and said paint the water and no one, NO ONE, use green or blue. I laugh now when I think of all our glances at each other.
And another little art story I have - don't we all? I met an artist who had finished advanced classes and she told me one should not admire paintings that have detail (as from a camera). It should be representational - abstract.
I like them all. But on Heysen's wife's portrait I can't imagine that her hair is coming down on her face like that. Does she have a hat on???
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Wonderful watercolors. I am more fond of watercolors than oils. The Spring, 1925 and the Bronzewings and Saplings, 1921 are my favorites.
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Ella - It looks like some sort of turban or scarf on Heysen's wife's head.
Never have onions looked so good. Getting the shine on the onions is not easy to paint: light and shade and form - ah harking back to art classes.
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Yes, painting is all about the light...
and as Ella says representational and abstract art should be representational and abstract but they are just styles - there are many accomplished artists who strive for and achieve a photo-realism and whose work is highly valued and sought after - it is simply their style
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Gum and Ella - I have a problem in explaining why I like certain pieces of art and not others. It comes down to those two words for me "I like". What draws one to a particular piece of art is entirely subjective, imho. I know that probably sounds like a cop-out. I have no problem explaining why I like some art, but the first time I saw Jackson Pollock's "Blue Poles" i was enchanted, but when I saw a Rothko for the first time I felt nothing. I love Picasso, especially his Blue Period and his cubism, but Matisse does nothing for me. And so on. If I went to a ritzy gallery and saw "representational and abstract" works, I would probably love some, but not necessarily what some people regarded as the "masterpiece". As you say, Gum, it is just a style. Terms like representational and abstract may turn away potential art lovers, because they feel that they must see those pieces of art in that light. Is it something like the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes", or is there something that draws the majority to the masterpiece? I have spent quite some time pondering this question, as it applies to so many other aspects of life, e.g. poetry, books, colours, art, wine, even men, but as yet only come up with the answer - the appreciation of these things is, and must be, subjective, otherwise we would live in a world where there was only one artist; only one brand of wine; only one poet; only one writer. Tell me what you think?
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Thanks for the info, GUM. Both trees are so lovely. If crepe myrtle grows well
there, I wonder if jacaranda would grow well here? Seems reasonable.
Now that I think of it, ELLA, I don't think I've ever seen a green or blue
stream. Most of them in my part of the country tend to be shades of brown,
and I was just looking at a picture of a small waterfall that was all white and
gray.
ROSE, God himself obviously loves variety! I believe in following his example. ;D
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Roshanarose I think we're way off topic here and hope everyone will indulge us.
I can't possibly answer your questions but only add my own thoughts -
I think you answered your own question by saying the appreciation of art (in any form) is subjective. The more one knows about any subject the more appreciative and discerning one becomes - think of wine lovers... they train their palate - in the same way art lovers train their mind to appreciate the myriad ways of describing the world through the chosen medium - and the more one learns the more there is still to learn. But having said that I think anyone can enjoy art. The 'I Like' test is tried and true. I think the thing that draws the majority to a masterpiece (painting, music, writing, whatever) is the natural attraction of the creative genius.
Babi I've not seen blue or green water either - the colours they appear to be are simply reflections of the sky, clouds, vegetation and sometimes discolouration due to mud, minerals, etc. When I began to paint my teacher banned the use of green for anything - we had to paint green leaves or anything else green by using other colours that when combined the viewers' eye would mix and read as green. Good exercise.
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Thanks Gum and Babi for your thoughts.
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You had my eyebrows up for a second there, GUM, when you said the teacher
forbade the use of green. Green is probably the most common color on earth.
But I agree it would be a great exercise to use a mixture of colors to get
different shades of green. After all, there are so many shades! I can look
out the window and find six shades of green w/o half trying.
My relationship with art is entirely one of enjoyment. I have no artistic
talent whatsoever. :-\
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JoanK,
When we lived in Torrance, CA, where you are located, there was a whole subdivision off of PCH which was completely planted by the sidewalks with Jacarandas. When you drove through, you were in a tunnel of those blue blooms. Gorgeous!
This subdivision was featured on TV once when we lived there for their Christmas decorations. The whole place was covered over with many decorations, much music and the Jacaranda's, which had been allowed to grow across the streets until they touched, had those tiny little lights in them. It was a magical place to visit. My grandkids, from NY, loved going there to see it. You had to get in line out on PCH and wait to drive through. We truly enjoyed the decor!
In Texas, where we lived in Austen, people grew Poinsiettias in large pots on their front porches and they were always in bloom at Christmas.
I am really enjoying the pictures and links that you all have put here. What a pleasure!
I looked up the tree books, PatH, and found reasonable prices for them on Amazon. Used but in fine condition. I wonder if those count towards Seniorlearn's points or one has to order a new book for those?
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Annie: I'll bet I know the place. I've been there to see the Christmas decorations, but not when the trees were in bloom, so I didn't realize what they were.
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The bunch over on Seniors and Friends have been talking about Michael Shumacher's, Mighty Fitz: The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Has anyone here read it? It sounds interesting.
I was surprised (even though I saw a TV program several years ago) that it happened in 1975. I thought it had happened much earlier. I had never heard of the disaster before Gorden Lightfoot's song came out in 1976. So, instead of being a folk song about a long ago event, his song was actually a timely memorial to the crew and ship.
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JoanK
When do the Jacaranda trees bloom in southern CA??? I can't remember but if they are out in Australia now, Torrance's must be 4-6mos after that?? Is that right?
Frybabe,
I was unaware of the Fitzgerald's sinking that short time ago. Always thought it was nearer WWII. Or even WWI. Well, must get back up on my history!
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The ship and its sinking rang a bell in this aging brain of mine - yeah, it still works! Some years ago, my husband and I decided to travel up into the UP, (Upper Penisula in Michigan) never having been there. It always sounded rather romantic to me for some reason???
On our way up we stopped in many little towns and went to a few little museums and in one there was the records and models of all the ships who have sunk in the Great Lakes. And one of them was the Edmund Fitzgerald. There is one place that is very dangerous to ships when they have to round a curve (here I get fuzzy) and if there is a storm then.....
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Ella, I'm the same age as you, so I know exactly what you are saying about the bells set ringing by awakened memories. What a merry part of growing old. One bell starts another ringing, until remembering turns into a carillon.
Now then, can you remember the town in Upper Michigan with the maritime museum. I would like to see that. I haven't been that way in a long, long time. It used to make a nice short cut driving from eastern to western Canada. Upper Michigan seemed like wilderness enough. North of Superior took one right out of this world. We had prisoner-of-war camps up there during WWII.
A few years ago I met, at a roadside park in upstate NY, a young German lad who had just spent the night in his little tent and was getting ready to resume his travels on his bicycle. He had arrived in NYC, and was now on his way to find the camp, north of Superior, where his grandfather had spent several years as a prisoner. He seemed very grateful for the map of Ontario which I offered him. I've always wondered if he came out of that wilderness alive. He must have had a fine story to tell.
The sinking of the EF was in the news again a short while ago, with a new theory about the cause of the disaster.
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If my memory is still sound I remember the recording of the "Edmund Fitzgerald" was unusually long. Its playing time ran longer that 10 minutes. Was it 11 minutes or was it 14? Both come to mind. In any case it was a favorite of DJ's as an opportunity for a bathroom break or even a quick snack chance.
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Goodness, what memories! Wonderful!
Harold, I didn't understand until I read this:
"On November 10, 1975, while traveling on Lake Superior during a gale, the Fitzgerald sank suddenly in Canadian waters approximately 17 miles (15 nmi; 27 km) from the entrance of Whitefish Bay at a depth of 530 feet (160 m). Although it had reported having some difficulties before the accident, the Fitzgerald sank without sending any distress signals. Its crew of 29 perished in the sinking with no bodies being recovered. When the wreck was found, it was discovered that the Fitzgerald had broken in two.
The sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald is the most famous disaster in the history of Great Lakes shipping. The disaster was the subject of Gordon Lightfoot's 1976 hit song, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald
Jonathan, the bells on the UP stopped ringing in my head. I don't remember the town, just fragments of the trip. One - I talked to a waitress in one little cafe who told me there were only 4 students in her senior year of high school! Imagine! Another fragment. We drove and drove, and more, in the UP, beautiful country, but it was getting dark, no motels, no lights, all woods, what to do? We didn't plan the trip very well. We finally arrived late at a place (a motel? all I remember was it had beds and lively people drinking). We took a tour of an iron mine, I think it was. It was like something from outer space - big shovels had made inroads in a huge mountainside, round and round, crater like. We had to put on helmets and walked through a dark plant which was very noisy. We were given a sample of the little iron pellets which were the end product of the mine.
Aren't you sorry you asked me about that trip, Jonathan?
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An now back to the book. I have it on hold at my library.
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Thanks, Ella, for the informative link to the Fitzgerald ship disaster. There are three museums mentioned. Could the one you visited be the Great Lakes Ship Museum at Whitefish Point, near Paradise, Michigan? I'm going to look for it when I'm down that way.
...beautiful country, but it was getting dark, no motels, no lights, all woods, what to do?
You put it so well. I remember the darkness, once, driving late at night, just staying in the tunnel of light that my headlights carved out of the black woods. Mesmerised by the flashing railway crossing light at what seemed like miles away. Until my headlights picked up the slowly moving freight cars crossing the roadway in front of me. I hit the breaks and managed to stop in time. Just barely.
I have picked up an interesting-looking book. Dixie & The Dominion,with the subtitle Canada, the Confederacy, and the War for the Union. By, Adam Mayers.
It's more than coincidence that the Dominion of Canada was formed in 1867, just two years after your Civil War ended. It must have seemed a serious threat thinking of a powerful, victorious North, with expansionist notions. And then the northern British colonies had been used as a base for Confederate commando incursions into the northern states during the later years of the war.
Does anyone know of a good history of the 1812-14 war? Its 200th anniversary is coming up. That war had all kinds of political ramifications on both sides of the border. Haven't we been good neighbors since.
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JONATHAN, Paradise, MIchigan. That rings a bell, yes, that might be the place. I remember smiling at the town - the village - that called itself Paradise. How blatant! How arrogant! How ridiculous, indeed!
A few hundred permanent residents - even today!! - http://www.paradisemichigan.org/
I have often wondered, Jonathan, how it is, how it was, that Canada was not caught up in the revolution that the lower colonies exhibited toward Great Britain. Why were the Canadians so loyal? Were they not taxed like the colonists to the south of them? I remember we (the American revolutionaries) attempted to catch you up - Aaron Burr tried to capture Quebec, if memory serves!
Yes, we've been wonderful neighbors! How fortunate we both are, let's have a toast! Hip, Hip Hooray.
Your book sounds very good. Tell us more!
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I don't know, ELLA. That little town sounds like a lovely vacation spot to me. I could see where the local residents might feel they had found themselves a small paradise.
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So are there two Paradises in Michigan?? We spent a week on Paradise Lake when our children were younger. Loved it there. Once when we visited further north, Petoskey, we came home via Lake Huron and it was very sparsely populated. We stayed in a family motel while driving across the state and it was the only one for miles around. The woods along with the lake on our left was just gorgeous. I have always wanted to return. Is the peninsula still that way? Sounds like a tempting destination for exploring.
We visited Castle Farms in Charlevoix, which was built back in 1918.
http://www.castlefarms.com/about-us/history/ (http://www.castlefarms.com/about-us/history/)
There were pieces of sunken ships on display that had been taken from Lake Michigan and restored. Beautifully done. The castle belonged to the Loeb family who were connected to Sears and Roebuck. It was my understanding that the castle was abandoned when a Loeb son was involved in a murder in Chicago. The father spent millions of dollars defending his son, even hired Clarence Darrow to take the case. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/loeb-s08.shtml
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THE LEOPOLD AND LOEB CASE. Have you never read the books about this famous case, ANN?
YEs, BABI, I agree, but they should have hid themselves, hid their natural beauty, their assets, from the public rather than proclaim it to the world. Fortunately, though, the public hasn't populated the area; no doubt, it is isolated, very cold, a winter wonderland and no industry around for jobs.
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I have known about the Loeb-Leopold case for ages. As soon as my mom heard that we were in the formerly owned Loeb Castle, she told us all about the murder. Then, sometime since then, one of the men was released from prison and he had been trained as a medical person. It was my understanding that he moved to South America/Brazil to serve the poor.
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But Ella, if they have no industry for jobs, isn't tourism their best, if not only,
means of serious income? Without it, they might not be able to stay in their
'wonderland'. Only the seriously wealthy can afford to occupy beautiful countryside
and shut others out of their precious enclave.
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Probably, yes, BABI. Tourism, particularly in winter, wouldn't you say? Well, any season actually.
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There is small town, in Northern California, called Paradise. I have spent some time, there. It is located in the Sierra foothills.
I've watched the CSpan 2 books show, the past two weekends. I recorded a couple of programs. One was with Nigel Hamilton. He has written a book called "American Ceasars". It is about 12 American Presidents, from FDR, to George W. Bush. It sounded interesting, so I ordered it for my Kindle.
The other week featured Mark Feldstein, who wrote "Poisoning The Press", Richard Nixon and Jack Anderson. It is now on my Kindle. I remember both of them. I will never forget the year that RN ran for Congress, the first time. On election day we found a pink paper on our front porch. It warned us that his opponent, Helen Gauhagen Douglas was a communist. It was too late for her to deny the charge, and she lost to him.
So, I have some good reading ahead. I look forward to learning some new information about a lot of people.
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Once upon a time there was a happy holiday town on the shores of the Pacific Ocean just south of Brisbane, Queensland. The holidaymakers, female, were fond of wearing gingham bikinis and sporting dark brown tans; the males would wear board shorts adorned with hibiscus, white rubber thongs, and drive woodies with mallies on the top rack, all in slavish imitation of Gidget. The holidaymakers would often stay in Guest Houses on the beach with names like "Stella Maris" and "Ocean Pebbles". It was an unspoilt Paradise, except for the holidaymakers, that is. In their wisdom the Councillors of the time called this place Surfers' Paradise.
Fast forward about 45 years. In Surfers' Paradise one can't find a park to save oneself. The odd surfer may be found on his/her small board. Drug deals take place on the streets and murder is not infrequent. This week is "schoolies week" at Surfers' Paradise. Kids from all over Queensland converge on the town as this is "muck up" week, and the kids who have their first taste of independence, sans parents, take over the streets. Schoolies week is the culmination of 12 years of school and the end of school exams for the Year 12s. Japanese tourists, for whom Surfers' is Mecca, avoid the place at all costs during Schoolies Week. The rest of the year they can find their way around easily because the street signs are written in Japanese as well as English. Young Japanese peddle wares from their shops on the footpath. They only target fellow Japanese. Australians are oddly out of place in what was once the most Australian of surfing towns. I am not taking sideswipe at the Japanese; the truth is that the average Australian holidaymakers, children of the woodie drivers and the gingham bikinis wearers can no long afford to visit Surfers'. Their holiday destinations of choice are frequently offshore, e.g. Fiji, Bali, Samoa. Places which rather ironically are cheaper to visit than the popular Australian holiday spots. The Gucci, Dior and Louis Vuitton shops in Surfers' are devoted only to duty free shoppers.
http://www.surfersparadise.com/
Sometimes I visit. Once I used to stay in one of those guest houses, now the Versace Plaza is slightly out of my price range and I wouldn't feel comfortable there anyway. When I do get a park in Surfer's I love looking at the Bally shop devoted to duty free shoppers only. I feel uncomfortable in the Bally shop too. Is this Paradise? Only the name is the same - Surfers' Paradise.
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Roshanarose,
What a sad story concerning Surfer's Paradise. But here in the states we have the same type of things happening. Our eastern graduates and their siblings haul themselves down to Florida beaches on the Gulf and on the Atlanta and the noise and drinking are overwhelming. Youngsters who have no idea why they are there, just following along with the rest of the sheep. Pretty sad!
I think this type of celebrating goes on in all countries. Ours is named "Spring Break", not very original but means the same thing at "Schoolies".
Sereneshiela,
The books that you mentioned from CSPAN sound good. I believe Ella has read and mentioned the one about the presidents, "American Caesars" and liked it.
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This is wonderful. Paradise here and now. In Michigan, California, and down there on the beautiful Pacific shore in Australia. Should I cancel an earlier reservation for the paradise in the sweet bye-and bye? Woe is me. By putting it off, will I find it trashed when I get there? Like surferparadise.
Maybe I'l just get away to some of the interesting places I can find in my neighboring state, New York. I can easily get to Rome and Rotterdam. Amsterdam and Athens. Troy or Ninevah and Naples. Versailles and Vienna. Babylon and Barcelona. Damascus and Dresden. And on and on.
But what's this? Sodom, NY? Should I take a chance?
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Go for it, Jonathan!
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In Post 1455 above Ella asked the following: I have often wondered, Jonathan, how it is, how it was, that Canada was not caught up in the revolution that the lower colonies exhibited toward Great Britain. Why were the Canadians so loyal? Were they not taxed like the colonists to the south of them? I remember we (the American revolutionaries) attempted to catch you up - Aaron Burr tried to capture Quebec, if memory serves!
This is an interesting question and in the absence of further comment I will offer the following. First when the American Revolution began in 1775 and 76 English population of Canada must have been quite low. The previous settlers were French and I suspect that during the American Revolution years the English in Canada were mostly English Military and their dependents, people inclined to be most loyal.. Also remember that when they evacuated Boston in 1776 they took several thousand “Boston Tories to a new life in coastal Canada. After the war other American Tories also relocated.
The successful end of the American Revolution was quickly followed by the French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars. These events led to increased English Nationalism and loyalty both in the British isles and colonies.. They also set off the beginning of immigration of war veterans with generous grants of Canadian land to veterans particularly Waterloo Veterans. I think this early migration were the most loyal people hardly interested in following their cousins in the U.S. l
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Thanks, HAROLD, yes, I do remember, French Canadians. Of course, Quebec. One forgets history at times.
Those British colonists in the 17th and 18th century would have profited better had they sailed northward.
Sodom and Paradise, is there a Gomorroh? Methinks it would be better to rename those cities! And there are gingham bikinis! What horrors!
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Ella - There were gingham bikinis in the late 50s and early 60s in Australia. I had a chartreuse gingham bikini, great for showing off the tan that so many of us craved. Gingham was very popular 'cos Bardot used to wear bikinis and dresses made of gingham. She was our idol. Melanoma wasn't even invented then :-) Shocks me now. I did have develop melanoma on my forehead at age 28. It can kill, but mine was operated on early and the bony skull stopped the cancer spreading too easily, but the scar is horrible.
Jonathan - Sodom, NY sounds a bit risky (or should that be "risque"). Now if there was a Sodom in Salem that would make good copy.
AdoAnnie - I was almost certain that the US would have their own version of Schoolies. That's probably the inspiration for Schoolies.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Roshanarose: We have Schoolies week here too - the kids go to Rottnest Island and south to Margaret River (big surf) - Rottnest has cracked down on antisocial behaviour, alcohol, drugs etc and is regarded as a bit tame these days. Margaret River is also using stiff measures to curb sales of drugs and to oust the drug dealers who follow the kids.
Rottnest has been the mecca for school leavers as long as I can remember and and was recognised as 'schoolies' way back in the 1930s but back then it was mainly only kids from affluent homes - nowadays it is everyone...
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I am reading several books at once, again. Yesterday, I read the first chapter about FDR. It was interesting. Especially about his friend, Lucy Mercy, and his daughter, Anne, helping them spending time together. I wonder if he would have lived longer, had he not run for that 4th term?
Now, I am into Harry S. Truman's life. Here I am learning a lot of new information. I had never before heard that HST studied law at night school. I also did not know that following WWI he was offered a promotion to Major in the Army. I enjoy learning new things about famous people. The book I am referring to is: "American Ceasars".
Sheila
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Hmm.. We do have a Paris, Texas,...and a Moscow. I don't think I'll take the trouble
to visit them, tho. Travel has very definite drawbacks for me these days.
That's a very reasonable analysis of the situation in Canada during our Revolution,
Harold. I'd never given the subject a thought until Ella brought it up. Even today, I
think Canadians tend to regard us with slightly raised eyebrows.
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Harold,
Here's an interesting story about the invasion of Canada plan and another plan to invade the US. And recently, I may add.
http://www.damninteresting.com/americas-secret-plan-to-invade-canada
I seem to remember from back the dark ages of my childhood, a story about America trying twice to take over Canada and failing. And that happened when we were a new country. Will look for a date.
Jonathan,
Looks like you have a plethora of NY cities to visit that have worldly names. That should keep you busy and out of trouble. ::)
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Thanks, Harold, for your reply to Ella's questions regarding those northern colonies who declined to join the thirteen as they set out on the road to independence. You've found very sound reasons.
Ella, too, has suggested an interesting thought with the taxation question. That couldn't have been the problem it was for the much bigger commercial and mercantile interests in the bigger and more prosperous colonies to the south.
But what a difference the revolution made in the 'loyal' colonies. Not least was the considerable immigration of what became known as the United Empire Loyalists. Their descendants are still scattered around southern Ontario, including the Niagara region, where I grew up. A considerable number of Pennsylvania Dutch came up in their Conestoga wagons and settled in the Kitchener/Waterloo area. And of course there were those who were given transportation north to the maritime provinces.
What a crisis of loyalty it must have been for many, both north and south. Disloyalty was treason, and thus a hanging matter.
But it all ended happily. Canada and the United States are variations in the good life. If our Canadian eyebrows are occasionally raised, it's always with a sense of wonder. Politically we've both reached the wonderful plateau of democracy, proving that it can be reached in different ways. Evolution, rather than revolution. A curious result is that the United States seems to have far more history than Canada. It's been pretty dull for us up here, at times. In those heady days of sturm und drang, many of us Canadians were probably in the bush checking our traplines. The Tom Paines and Sam Adamses found there listeners among the idlers in the south.
Ann has provided such a curious link to the contingency military planning on both sides of the border. Of course, that's what the military is always doing. What surprised me was that Canadians had budgeted only $1200 for the purpose. Which makes it necessary to cross the border to pick up decent maps at U.S. gas stations. LOL. I've got a whole box full going back 50 years. Collector's items, all of them. I'm a peacenik.
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I don't know about Canada not having much history, quieter maybe. At any rate, one of my all time favorite books is People of the Deer by Farley Mowat. My edition is dated 1952 and published by Little, Brown. The cover, unfortunately, is not in the best shape, but the inside cover liner and binding are still intact. I think it is a favorite because Mr. Mowat's travels just west of the Hudson Bay took place the year I was born. This had been one of my Dad's books. The few that remain, I cherish.
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Oh gosh, I haven't heard a reference to Farley Mowat for years. He is not so very well known here though some of his books are in our libraries He always reminded me of the boys in the Durrell family (Gerald and Lawrence) who also had a passion for the wildlife and environmental concerns.
Once, long ago in the dreamtime I took a course in Canadian literature - Mowat was among the required reading - we read the The People of the Deer - and I read a couple of others ...I remember The Boat That Wouldn't Float - how he put to sea in a leaky unseaworthy boat and in dangerous waters was beyond me - especially as my DH spent many years as a volunteer on rescue boats.
We also read Hugh McLennan and Robertson Davies etc.... I remember we had to get a direct shipment of the McLennan text from Canada.
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Jonathan,
Here's another link about the American invasion of Canada which happened during the Revolutionary War.
http://www.historynet.com/invasion-of-canada-during-the-american-revolutionary-war.htm
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For years I've been meaning to get around to reading Mowat. Maybe now is the time. Where should I start?
I'm a huge fan of Robertson Davies, have read all of his novels and many of his essays. In Murther and Walking Spirits, a section deals with Americans fleeing to Canada during our revolution. My absolute favorite is The Rebel Angels, although mostly the Deptford trilogy, especially Fifth Business, is thought to be his best.
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Can you believe it? Farley Mowat is still writing. He has certainly earned an enduring place in CanLit.
Frybabe, you're right, of course, about Canadian history. We do have a lot of it. It takes a nudge, like the questions asked in these posts, to arouse one to a better awareness and appreciation of one's native land.
Canada has taken a very peculiar route to nationhood, caught between the conflicting territorial aims of Britain and the United States. Of course, losing the Thirteen Colonies did make the British more generous in subsequent colonial demands for self-government. Except India, perhaps. The British bungled that one, too.
That amazing British Empire. Losing the American colonies only spurred the British on to greater imperial endeavours in other parts of the globe. I've pulled Niall Ferguson's EMPIRE down from my shelf. Has anyone read it? I've got a gloriously illustrated Basic Books edition. Why haven't I read this? This is history on the grandest scale. And Canada was part of it.
More later.
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Pat, I remember your enthusiasm for Robertson Davies, from a while ago, when his name came up. Why don't you propose The Rebel Angels for discussion.
I enjoyed his, The Cunning Man. Acquiring insight into diagnosing illness in the company of a glitterring array of literary and philosophical greats. Or did I miss the point?
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Of all the authors that you all have mentioned, Farley Mowat, it the only familiar name. I have several of his books but have never taken the time to see if I like them. After reading about the trees in the US and the trees of Australia, I find myself more interested in reading about other things of nature that we must save. I think I will take a look at Mowat's books.
I have never heard of Robertson Davis but the interest shown here about his writings is worth a search for one of his titles at my library. Is there a favorite one among those who have read his books??
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I've been reading a most interesting article in the "Smithsonian" that I think would interest you
historians. It is a description of the Custer debacle as it was seen by the Indians. Apparently
there were fragments, much neglected, written (or described in interviews) by those who fought in, or witnessed, the battle of Little Bighorn. Since the Indians were the only survivors of that
fight, you would think someone would have sought their eye-witness accounts sooner.
There is a book out now; this article is by the author and can be found in the November issue of 'Smithsonian'. The book is "The Killing of Crazy Horse", the author is Thomas Powers. The
article includes no only photographs of the area, but Indian drawings of the battle.
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Adoannie, Farley Mowat is a long time environmentalist as well as a writer. In fact, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, founded in 1977, named it's flagship after him.
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Annie: "Jonathan,
Looks like you have a plethora of NY cities to visit that have worldly names. That should keep you busy and out of trouble."
Busy, yes. Out of trouble, I'm not so sure. ;)
The Canadians were very friendly and welcoming to us on our two trips to Cannada, except once, in a small town in French Canada. We went to a local restaurant for breakfast, sat down at a table in the not-very-full restaurant, and were completely ignored, and looked through. Our requests for ervice met with blank faces. After 30 or 40 minutes, we realized that they really weren't going to serve us and left. Our two children were very upset, and kept asking for explanations, which I was hard pressed to give. On the way out, we noticed a flag with a fleur-de-lis on it, a clue I guess to more politically savy people that this restaurant was for French Canadians only.
This was 35 years ago. I admit, being surprised that there were pockets of such anti-American feeling. I wonder if something like that would happen today. (This one incident has not spoiled my appreciation of the friendliness and courtesy of the other Canadians we met).
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I just happened on a woman i had not known about, Margarieta Hardenbrook (plus two other last names from 2 other marriages). I also discovered a recent biography about her. She was a Dutch woman, merchant, who became, probably, the richest woman in 17th century New England, ending up owning at least 5 ships and being the agent for many NY merchants.
http://www.bookpage.com/0608bp/nonfiction/women_of_the_house.html
http://www.amazon.com/Women-House-Colonial-She-Merchant-Mansion/dp/015101065X
I'm going to see if i can find the book from interlibrary loan before i purchase, but it looks quite interesting.......jean
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Here is a longer and more interesting description of Hardenbrook
http://b-womeninamericanhistory17.blogspot.com/2010/01/businesswoman-margarieta-hardenbrook-de.html
"business women" sounds better than " she-merchant" to our 21st century ears, put "she merchant" has some strength to it, doesn't it? Maybe because it brings to mind " she-devil"?
Jean
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'she-merchant' does seem ambiguous. 'She-devil' has the wrong connotations. How about 'madam'? With a roaring place of business.
Joan, it wasn't anti-American feeling that you encountered in the small town in French Canada. You were there at a time of intense separatist feeling. Just hearing English spoken could have put them off. That was about the time when some in Ontario (the neighbouring province) were reluctant to drive about in Quebec with Ontario plates.
One can hardly blame Quebecers feeling strongly about being drowned in an English continent. And yet, sixty years ago, our history professor told us students that Quebec, with its high birthrate, would overrun North America!
Imagine my concern, once, when I needed auto repairs in that small French-speaking small town. Was I going to be told to get lost? A stocky cigar-chomping garage owner looked me over and listened to my broken parlez vous anglais? What a relief when he muttered, why not? It turned out he was Jewish. It was all shalom after that.
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I don’t know what prompted me to come here this morning, it must be the weather. Now I am almost sorry I came.
I am so sad when I read those posts about Quebec, I feel French Canadians are despised even more than before the separatist movement. But I think that without Quebec the rest of Canada would just melt down and become part of the US. Perhaps that would be best, I don’t know.
Can an incident with a waiter in a restaurant in a small town in Quebec over 25 years ago decide on the character of a total population for decades to come? I too had my foot stepped on when I spoke English to American tourists visiting me but people are like that not just here in Quebec.
We have to learn and speak other languages to understand each other, but very few North Americans feel the need to learn another, but how long do you think it can last? .
“And yet, sixty years ago, our history professor told us students that Quebec, with its high birthrate, would overrun North America”. I wonder where that professor got his degree, China perhaps.
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"'she-merchant' does seem ambiguous. 'She-devil' has the wrong connotations. How about 'madam'? With a roaring place of business."
Way too sexist, Jonathan....at least they didn't say "businessman".
;D ;D
Jean
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Good to hear from you, Eloise. Quebec is a wonderful place to visit, and I can't imagine Canada without its La Belle Province. The critical years with the FLQ and the French president, De Gaulle, shouting Vive, Quebec, libre, from the steps of the legislature in Quebec City, are long past, but not forgotten. Our French-Canadian PM declared an emergency and put the War Measures Act into effect. Your premier was afraid to leave his office for a while, with one cabinet colleague assassinated, and the British High Commissioner to Canada kidnapped by the terrorists. What a stormy time. The H C was in the news not long ago. Still remembering.
The professor who talked about a French North America was a distinguished Canadian. Frank Underhill. He was talking North American demographics, and he was always stimulating and thought provoking. It didn't seem unreasonable then. How the picture has changed over the years. The Quiet Revolution in Quebec made such a difference when family planning was practiced. Some Canadians no doubt are pleased and surprised at being saved by the condom. It didn't stop them from learning French, but that may have been short-sighted. Spanish and Chinese are the way to go now. No doubt the professor, MHRIP, is busily revising his views.
Taking a page out of Underhill's book, I'm inclined to think that the map of North America could soon be redrawn. With several U.S. regions opting out of the Union, asking Canada to take them in. Or returning to Mexico. I wonder, can we talk the Cajuns in the South to come home to Acadia. And bring their cuisine with them.
I'm carried away with crazy notions. Forgive me. I wonder is Sarah Palin thinking an American corridor from Alaska to the rest of the U.S.
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ELOISE: "Can an incident with a waiter in a restaurant in a small town in Quebec over 25 years ago decide on the character of a total population for decades to come?"
Oh, Eloise, I'm so sorry I hurt you. Of course not! I tried to make clear in my post that that was one isolated incident, and diddn't balance the wonderful time we had the rest of our trip in French Canada. I would hate to have a visitor to the US form their opinion of us from one rude person. Such people exist in every country.
One of the resons I remembered that incident was that it revealed my ignorance of Canada. Obviously, there was some strong feeling there that I had been completely unaware of. The flag with fleur-de-lis outside should have told me there was something there, just as people in the US who still fly the confederate flag today are saying something about their strong feelings.
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You're right, of course, Eloise, in that I think one might find that similar attitudes in most
small, insulated communities. However, I don't think there is the remotest chance of
Canada melting down and becoming part of the US. As the former MIL and grandmother of
three Canadians, I can attest to their pride in, and preference for, their own country.
JONATHAN, I love it when you get fanciful. I was quite amused to think of various parts of
the country deciding to re-attach themselves elsewhere.
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I have a "waiter-in-Canada" story also, w/ a different ending........My husband and i decided one week-end in Aug of 1968 to drive from NJ to Montreal, just for fun. We spent Sat night in the Holiday Inn downtown, but they were having a medical conference coming on Sun and had no rooms available for Sun night. But the man at the desk sais he would find us a room elsewhere and he did. We spent the next couple of nights in a quaint little hotel across the street from "old city hall". It felt like being in Europe. The elevators w/ the grille doors which we called "European style". Opposite a small lobby was a little cafe w/ a woman singing in French, the audience joining her. The room was just big enough for a small bed and a bureau, which was fine w/ us, we were newly weds! However, having to go down the hall to the bathroom, wasn't as much fun!
The following morning we went to "brunch" to a small cafe in the basement of a building that had a dress shop on the main floor. We ordered at the counter frpm a man who had an obvious NJ/NY accent. My husband was from Passaic NJ. When the man bro't us our food, he asked us where we were from, when we told him, he laughed a hearty belly laugh and said he
was from Patterson, NJ, which is next door to Passaic and where my husband had lived for his first 12 yrs and we had a long chat.
Everyone was very nice. We were especially aware of their kindness since we were an interracial couple and did not always have positive responses to our presence. We even considered Montreal as potential residence, especially since as we returned to the U.S. we heard the uproar of the Democratic convention in Chicago on the car radio. .......jean
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While I will pass on any comment concerning the speaking of English or French in Canada, I do admit I get a kick out of asking French or French-Canadian visitors who I meet at the Institute of Texan Cultures or the Mission Espada, if they know how the French Flag became one of the six flags that have flown over Texas? Inevitably they have no Idea that the French were ever involved in colonial Texas. I then ask if the know of Renee Robert Cavalier Sieur de La Salle? Here most vaguely recognize the name, remembering him as a historical figure involved in Great Lakes and Mississippi River exploration None have ever connected him to Texas giving me the opportunity to tell the story in as much detail as their schedule (and mine) allows. At the least another French speaking visitor leaves at the least knowing that between Jan 1685 and about Jan 1689 there was a real French colony on the Texas Matagorda coast. Also that La Salle himself died in Texas killed by his own men in May 1689.
Regarding the French flag that we some times fly, it is always the fleur de lys that most days can be seen flying in the Flag Field at the entrance of the institute of Texan Cultures. This Flag field includes some 30 National Flags of the design used when immigrants from that nation first came to Texas. The U.S. Flag flown in this field is the 28 star national flag flown in 1845 when Texas was admitted to the union.
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Thanks for the little tidbit, Harold. I Googled images of Matagorda. What a lovely shoreline. I could have done without the pictures of a congregation of rattlesnakes that Google picked up with the query though. :o I don't think I have ever seen pictures of rattlesnakes in such numbers in such a small space. It reminded me more of pictures of garter snakes when they come out of their winter hiding spaces and do their mating thing.
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Regarding Rattlesnakes in the Matagorda Bay area in 1686 at least one of the French prominant settlers died from a rattlesnake bite. He lingered in extreme pain for some two months until he died following the amputation of the effected leg. Another of the settler's, La Salle's personal servant, was lunch for an alligator while trying to cross the Brazos river. At the time all the Rivers of Texas including our local San Antonio River harbored alligator populations. They disappeared by the end of the 19th century but they are now showing up again, but have not yet had time to reach large sizes.
I have not heard of them in the San Antonio River but I know they are in ranch ponds just 50 miles South of San Antonio whose drainage are tributary to the S,A, River,
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I am not sure I remember right. Wasn't one of the reasons De Soto's crew were ticked off at him because he had them traipsing through swamps? By the way, I've just added a biography of Champlain to my BN cart. You, Eloise, and Jonathan have gotten me interested in the history of the French in America. I vaguely remember learning something about the Acadians, but don't remember much. Not too far upstate from me, near Route 6, is an area that had a French settlement. It was supposed to be where Maria Antoinette, et.al., were to escape to when the revolution broke out. Obviously, she never made it.
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So, Marie didn't make it, but ironically, Napoleon did. Didn't he take refuge in Louisiana for a
time? Perhaps he should have stayed there.
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I don't know about Napoleon, but his brother spent some years here on the East Coast between 1817 and 1832. There was some archeological digging going on in the area of the estate a few years back.
http://www.napoleon-series.org/research/biographies/c_joseph.html
http://www.archaeology.org/1003/abstracts/letter.html
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Interesting, Frybabe - I'd never heard of that.
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Bordentown is abt 30 mins from where we live and is the town where my son teaches and coaches. I was very surprised the first time i heard about a Bonaparte having lived in our area. Too bad the house was razed, wldn't it b fun to see?........jean
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The brother made it to America. He was a friend and corespondent with Audubon. Napoleon himself never made it He was first exiled to a Mediterranean Island whose proximity to France made his escape and return to France easy. He was at once welcomed back as Emperor in full command of a hastily assembled veteran army that constituted a formidable force. It almost beat the British under Wellington at Waterloo, but the timely arrival of strong German reinforcements resulted in his total defeat. This time the Allies mad sure he would not get back. They sent him to Exile at an isolated south Atlantic island, St Helena, where under the watchful eyes of a British army regiment he lived out his final years.
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I've just started to read a book i think some of you might like. The Food of a Younger Land by Mark Kurlansky. He found, in the Library of Congress, a file of a WPA that was a collection of bits and pieces about food from different regions of the country. The information was to result in a book titled "America Eats"but it never got edited and published. The cover statement says: " A portrait of American food - before the nat'l highway system, before chain restaurants, and before frozen food, when the nation's food was seasonal, regional and traditional -from the lost WPA files."
It has some recipes-sort of, at least the ingredients, i. e. Sweet pumpkin pickle from VT, Long Island rabbit stew, Kentucky spoon bread, Mississippi molasses pie, Ind pork cake, Oregon salmon bbq. There are different words for the same food in different parts of the country, their is poetry abt food, how and when people ate, etc, etc.
Kurlansky mentioned that growing up in the 40's he remembers only A & W Root Beer and Howard Johnson as chain restaurants, i cldn't think of any others, either except for Woolworth's, which was really a 5&10, and that's what we called it, " the 5&10," not the "5&10 cent store!" What time did you have "dinner?" Did you have "supper"?
Some of the paasages are beautiful, such as the description of Vermont during the "sugaring-off" if the maple syrup. It seems that global warming is impacting the maple sugar production also because there nights must be cold enough, long enough to freeze the sap at night and to thaw in the daytime. Also, acid rain is effecting the soil creating smaller production.
I'll add some more tidbits as i read along..........jean
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“That’s where Joseph’s house was.” After three years of working at Point Breeze, Veit is comfortable calling the king by his first name." from the link, supplied by Frybabe.
Coming to America must have been a great levelling process for these royal refugees. Joseph didn't dare arrive as the king that he had been, but as the Count de Survilliers. It seems he had to get used to being addressed as Mr Bonaparte. Now he's referred to as Joseph. Soon he will be just plain Joe!!! LOL.
I can't count the times I've passed the Hwy directions on Route #3 in upstate NY to the South Shore and then the North Shore of Lake Bonaparte, on my way to the Adirondacks. Always with a lot of curiousity. Now it has really been whetted.
The same goes for my appetite for those regional foods. Mouth-watering information. Many thanks for the reference to the Kurlansky book. I must get my hands on it.
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But don't forget that the Bonaparte family was in no way royal. Napoleon was a miserably common upstart so far as the established royal families were concern. Some of Napoleon's brothers and marshals had been elevated by Napoleon to king status in Spain, Sicily, and etc. The one most connected to the U.S in the post Napoleonic time was Charles Lucien Bonaparte who was Audubon’s friend. His name is referenced some 14 times in the index of my Audubon biography.
Only one of Napoleons close associates who had obtained Royal status survived in power in post Napoleon Europe. This was Marshal Bernadotte. Napoleon did not actually make this elevation. It seems there was a succession crisis in Sweden when the old King died without a definite heir at a time when Napoleon was at the height of his of his power. Hoping to win Napoleon’s favor the Swedes elected Bernadotte as their King. Napoleon was not really enthusiastic about it but finally approved. A few years later Bernadotte as King of Sweden join the collation of European Countries to end Napoleon’s career. Today the House of Bernadotte still reigns in Sweden. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Bernadotte
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I got hookes on Napoleon and Josephine after seeing Desiree, a movie about Napoleon losing his love to Bernadotte. It starred Marlon Brando, Jean Simmons, Merle Oberon and Michael Rennie with Cameron Mitchell, Elizabeth Sellars, Charlotte Austin, Cathleen Nesbitt, Carolyn Jones and Evelyn Varden.
I was about 15 yrs old and then i read the book and then more books about Josephine and Napoleon. I think they may have been mostly fiction, but they got me interested in the period and the people.........jean
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Desiree was one of the books in my Dads' very small library. I remember starting it, but don't think I got too far. I no longer have it. I believe I only have four of his books left, Green Mansions, People of the Deer, G.B.S. A Full Length Portrait,and The Life of Samuel Johnson. Other books from his library that I remember include a Korean War novel which, I thought, was written by Frank O'Connor. I am probably wrong. Then there was The Red and the Black which some of you did in a book discussion, and the Silver Chalice. The first I was not interested in reading, the last I started, but Mom lent it to a neighbor. It never made it back.
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I too remember the Desiree Movie with Marlon Brando and Jean Simmons' I would like to watch it again so I will have to watch for it on the Turner old movie channel.
My biography of Napoleon is one by Emil Ludwig first published in 1915. My copy is a Modern Library Edition purchased about 1950. Though it contains some 650 pages it is one of the regular Modern Library hard cover titles that sold through the 1950 for only $1.00.
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An ex of the tidbits of info - i'm going to have to go find out where "tidbits" came from- in Kurlansky's Food is : the Grand Central Oyster Bar is one of the few restaurants in the FWP that us stillinoperation today. It was partof the original Grand Central Terminal opened in 1913 as the largest, most luxurious train statiion in the world. Among oth features were ramps instead of stairs and a hair salon in the women's waiting room. NYC had been famous for centuries for the oyster beds of the harbor and other city waterways. The shores of all five boroughs werecovered inoyster beds and the land was marked by ancient piles of discarded shells. One has been carbon- dated to 6950 B.C.
Jean
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TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Mabel:" growing up in the 40's he remembers only A & W Root Beer and Howard Johnson as chain restaurants." I'm trying to remember. In Washington, we had a chin called "Hot Shoppes" but I think it was local.
I can remember traveling in the 50s and stopping at an endless chain of Howard Johnsons.
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What aboy "Little Taverns"? Were they national? They had tiny hambergers, 35 Cents each, ot three for a dollar.
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Wasn't it fun to stop at an A & W Drive-In, a way-back-when, with ones date, for a root beer. Watching American Graffiti always brings that time back for me. Wasn't it the best of times. Even the thirties. We were young then.
I must have several of Emil Ludwig's biographies in the house. I'm certain of his Bismarck, the 19C German statesman. I also have several of Stefan Zweig's books. He was so popular. The one I enjoyed was his biography of Joseph Fouche, Napoleon's police chief. Fouche was a very adroit politician, serving in various capacities throughout that stormy period in French history. A political surviver par excellence.
Not long ago my newspaper carried an article regarding Margaret MacMillan, the author of PARIS 1919, which we had such a good discussion on. She talks about her current reading. I saved the newspaper clipping, so I can now quote it:
Since I am researching a book on the First World War, I have been trying to read a lot about the world that was destroyed by that terrible conflict. Stefan Zweig's wonderful memoir Years of Yesterday summons up that lost world of Mitteleuropa, the complacent bourgeoisie and the apparently stable Austro-Hungarian Empire - what he called the Golden Age of Security. It is fascinating and awful because we know what is going to happen. Zweig lived to see the catastrophe of the war and the chaos that followed. As a Jew, he had to flee when the Nazis took over Austria. He finished his memoir in 1942 and, apparently unable to bear the destruction of Europe any longer, committed suicide.
Zweig's book, The World of Yesterday, does look like a good read. And he mentions his Fouche:
My books had already enjoyed the honor of being widely read by the National Socialists (the Nazis); it had been the Fouche in particular which as an example of political unscrupuousness they had studied and discussed repeatedly.
What a bitter irony.
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Joan, i do remember hearing the name Hot Shoppe but i can't remember being in one. I never heard of Little Taverns. Probably the first Howard Johnsons' i was in were on the Pa turnpike, where every restsurant was a HJ.
We didn't have an A&W drive-in in our town, but i worked at a "drive-in" just like that, absent roller skates, altho i was a great skater and could have done that. I lived, on Fri nights, at a roller skating rink at the bottom of my street from jr high until i began to go to high schl football and basketball games on Fri nights. Ironically, working at the drive-in was considered a very good and very respectable job in my town, because the owner was a very respected man in the community and hired the dgts of his Rotary croonies, drs, lawyers,etc. to work there. I got hired only bcs my brother worked with the owner's father-in-law. It was really the best paying place for high schl and college girls to work bsc the tips were great. Yes,
hamburgers were 35 cents and the best thing on the menu was a pizza burger and a coffee milk shake! YUM!
Jean
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Pizzza burger and coffee milkshake? Why aren't those still on the menus? Sounds good (at least
if you're a coffee drinker). You should suggest them to your favorite food chain, JEAN. Maybe
they'll bring them back.
I am slowly working my way through Michael Grant's selections from classical historians. I
read him with my breakfast. An historian I had never heard of, by the name of Sallust, said
something that made me smile. I don't have it here with me, but basically he said that it was
hard writing history. If he wrote of men's faults and crimes, he would be accused of envy. If
he praised their accomplishments and character, he found that people would believe it to the
extent of what they felt they themselves could do and be. More than that they were sure must
be an exaggeration. ::)
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I remember when I visited Philadelphia, I was solo (sola Spanish). ex Hub was on a relly rally and we agreed that I should be spared, and choose where I wanted to meet him when he had completed his rounds of rellies. Sounds cynical, I know. But I had travelled a bloody long way and was determined that I was going to do what I wanted to do. He understood. Anyway, I stayed at this gorgeous B&B on Chestnut Street. I ventured downstairs to visit the small bistro there and ordered Potato skins and a Margarita. Sacre Bleu! The potato skins arrived on a platter large enough to feed three battalions, and the Margarita was contained in a large jug. I asked the waiter if this was a single serve. He said "Yes. Ma'am. Maybe you would like a bigger serve." That night I slept like a baby. I love the way Americans eat (and drink). I seriously do!
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I don't know what a relly rally is, but I assume it is some kind of road race? When I was in high school, road rallies, were all the rage around here among MGB and Austin Martin owners
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Speaking of Napoleon ;D ???, the History Intern'l channel is showing a story of a mass grave of Napoleon's soldiers found in Lithuanuia. I had no sense of N being in L! That seems so far northwest of where i pictured his armies being. Apparently the deaths occurred on the retreat from Moscow. Have to take a look at a map.......
Yes, explain rellie rally, it's not in our lexicon........ :) and yes Philadelphia is known for it's scumputous, and lot's of,food. We eat in Philly about once a month. But, of course, the fancier and more expensive the restaurant, the less food you get. Funny how that works.....jean
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I have many happy memories of the States.
Having a Rellie Rally is actually when one travels a long distance to visit far flung relatives. Nothing to do with cars :) My ex was born in Fort Ord in California, both parents were born in the States. So he visits all the rellies about every two years. He hasn't done the rally for a while, as he is now the proud father of girl triplets. In the past the rellie rally took place at Cape May. Has anyone been there?
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I've been to Cape May, but we were just driving through. I don't remember where we were staying unless it was Stone Harbor before it got popular. I loved all the brightly colored Victorian gingerbread houses at Cape May.
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Cape May - yes, i leave about an hour and a half from there. My best friend's dgt got married in the back yard of one of the victorians and then had a dinner inside, a small wedding, abt 25 people at the dinner. The wedding party had pics taken at the beach. My fr iend grew up "next door" to Cape May". Thehouses are lovely, but don't go there in the height of the summer, the traffic and parking are horrible. Much more fun in the Spring or Fall and they do a Victorian Christmas which is probably lovely, but also crowed.....jean
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There is a wildlife sanctuary there which is famous for migrsting birds. I've never been there, but would love to go.
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For World War I history, start with Barbara Tuchman's The Guns of August! I think one of her previous books, too the Proud Tower, gives a picture with anecdotal chapters of the pre-war civilzation in Western Europe. di you know that the Kaiser, the Czar of Russia, and the King of England were first cousins? Unbelievable.
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Were they not married to Queen Victoria's sons or daughters?? I think so.
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Two other books i like that relate to bellmere's comment: Tuchman's A Distant Mirror which is about 14th century Europe, a terrible century for Europe, Weather-wise and other-wise, but Tuchman makes it very readable in her famous easy style; and Theo Aronson's Grandmama of Europe about all those descendant's of Queen Victoria, including those cousins who were fighting each other in WWI. It is amazing how many children and grandchildren of hers were in royal families in almost all the countries of Europe and very interesting to read about.......jean
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Jean,
Wasn't it her children who passed on the bleeding gene? And didn't the Czar of Russia's son have that disorder and also the King of Spain's son, as I recall??
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Yes, Annie, it came from herbeloved Albert's Coburg branch.......here's a good one page synopsis of the story.
http://www.sciencecases.org/hemo/hemo.asp
Jean
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Thanks for the link, Jean. While I was reading it, I discovered that the Coburg connection comes from Queen Victoria and is not the cause of hemophilia in her family. Something to do with a mutation in her or in her father's sperm might have caused it. That's quite interesting how it spread throughout Europe. I wonder if its still prevalent today.
On that link is a story of a Eugene Romanov who claimed to be the ggrandson of Czar Nicholas in 1995. Said he was the grandson of Alexandria whose body was never found after the execution of her family in 1917. He also had the family name plus hemophilia.
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Your right Annie, i misread that, when i saw Coburg, my mind went to Germany and then to Albert..........senior moment.........
Did those of you who read Audubon's bio w/ us a few yrs ago see that his "picture book" sold for $10 million yesterday? How ironic considering the life he and his family lived, most of the time in poverty.......jean
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Ironic is right. I keep remembering his poor wife.
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Thinking ahead a bit (beyond 'tis the season and all that) into February, Harold and I are proposing a discussion of a nonfiction book; it's been awhile hasn't it? And considering that Harold lives and breathes Texas and has all his life (his SeniorLearn and Seniornet life anyway), is a docent at two museums in Texas and has been such a grand DL on so many occasions in our past, I jumped up and down when he suggested a book about the Texas Plains Indians, particularly when I read the advanced praise:
"Empire of the Summer Moon is many things-a thrilling account of the Texas frontier in the nineteenth century, a vivid description of the Comanche nation, a fascinating portrat of Cynthia Ann Parker and her son, the mysterious, magnificent Quanah-but most of all it is a ripping good read." - Jake Silverstein, editor, Texas Monthly
Plan to join us - you will discover some "ripping fierce Indians."
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I'm reading Empire of the Summer Moon - my family is all from Texas, and we grew up in Houston. I'm surely learning some new stuff from this book.
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Sounds like a good one......jean
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Sounds good to me too. With winter coming on up here in the north, it's a great prospect to spend February in Texas. Especially after those scenes in last night's movie. Stone's W. What an entertaining movie on the Bush presidency. With his Kennedy Friday night, and his Nixon Saturday night, the White House is beginning to seem like home. I was struck by how much time Nixon and Bush spent in prayer. Genuinely. Sincerely.
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Are you going thru movies on all the presidents Jonathan!.......:).......jean
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OH, GOOD! We have a few interested in wild, fierce Indians.
JONATHAN, those Comanches were up your way also. When we get deep into the discussion, of IF WE DO, or WHEN we do, we'll put some maps up as to just where all their wanderings took them. They were a nomadic tribe, not agricultural, and the buffalo were their sustennce, so, of course......
The Indian way of life has some attractions, don't you think?
Buffalo have shown up occasionally in our city, Columbus, Ohio. When they built an Annheiser Busch beer plant some years go, they installed buffalo grazing in the pasture land around them. I wondered if the buffalo got drunk on fumes.
It brought some interested folks to gaze. I think our zoo has some, and I know I've seen them elsewhere. Poor end to some magnificent beasts, showing up as advertisements.
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My library sends recommended books every so often to my email, isn't it wonderful? You can name the categroy you want to receive; I have several, but this came this morning. I thought some of you might have read them?
Pearl Buck in China : journey to The good earth - Hilary Spurling
The Man Who Loved China: The Fantastic Story of the Eccentric Scientist Who Unlocked the Mysteries of the Middle Kingdom - by Simon Winchester
Oracle Bones: A Journey Between China's Past and Present - by Peter Hessler
Factory Girls: From Village to City in a Changing China - by Leslie T. Chang
A nation rising : untold tales of flawed founders, fallen heroes, and forgotten fighters from America's hidden history - Kenneth C. Davis
The Envoy: The Epic Rescue of the Last Jews of Europe in the Desperate Closing Months of World War II - by Alex Kershaw
Caesars' wives : sex, power, and politics in the Roman Empire - Annelise Freisenbruch
Tories : fighting for the king in America's first civil war - Thomas B. Allen
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My goodnes, they all sound interesting.
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If you're interested in China today, I can highly recommend China Road (http://www.amazon.com/China-Road-Journey-Future-Rising/dp/1400064678) by Rob Gifford. I read it a year or so ago, and loved it.
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Ella - Some good books there. I am a great fan of Simon Winchester. He could write on the back of a postage stamp and it would still be a bestseller. Thanks for the list.
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Ella,
Thanks for that list of books...Joan Grimes
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I am reading, and very much enjoying: "American Caesars" by Nigel Hamilton. He writes about each President, from FDR, through George W. Bush. I am currently in the middle of the section on LBJ. The author writes of the early life of each, then the time they are President, and ffinally their finally the years out of office.
IMO, both Democrats and Republicans, will find the book informative. Both positive and negative things are covered, about each of them. I highly reccomend this book of non fiction.
Sheila
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I am intermittently reading again, The March of Folly by Barbara Tuchman. Each chapter deals with a war that never had to happen. In the chapter on Viet Nam, the various statements of government officials make you swear you are reading about today's Afghanistan.
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Don't leave out the Schiff Cleopatra, one of the top 10 books of the year by Stacy Schiff, who is a Pulitzer Prize winner, it's quite eye opening and good, actually. The ancients are suddenly HOT.
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Thanks Ella, Sheila, Bellemere and Ginny for your recommendatons. And Mary Z, I also really liked China Road by Bob Gifford.
One of the more interesting nonfiction books I read this year was CAPTIVE by Jere Van Dyk. About a journalist who wanted to write a book about the Taliban, but was captured by them. Besides the very gripping story, you learn much about the Pashtun, the largest ethnic group in Afganistan and Pakistan. The British divided these millions of people when they drew the border between the two countries.
Marj
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MARJ, is that the way it was? Years ago we discussed Gandhi's autobiography (I'll look it up and bring it here if we have it) and as I remember the partition of Pakistan and India it was not the British but the Pakistanis who drew away from India because of religion. I remember it broke Ghandi's heart. Now I must look it all up! Later.......
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I don't have time to read it all this morning; going out to lunch with a neighbor and my visiting sister, but here is our discussion of Gandhi's book:
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Gandhi.htm
And there are numerous articles on the partition of India which all look very interesting. I would like to read up on it again, I would think it all would directly affect the future of America. Just one
http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/itihas/partition.htm:
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Every time I happen on the word - PUNJAB - something clicks in my mind. It has to do with LITTLE ORPHAN ANNIE and her Daddy Warbucks, which I adored when I was small. Were they books? Was it just a comic strip? I know the musical ANNIE, and the song, TOMORROW, TOMORROW, (which I also loved), but what of that word PUNJAB? Was Daddy Warbucks home from there? I don't know!
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Daddy Warbucks' valet ("man") was named Punjab, I think - a very tall man who wore a turban. Click here. (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060906035405/uncyclopedia/images/f/fa/AnniePunjab.jpg&imgrefurl=http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:AnniePunjab.jpg&usg=__OESx4QQ7Nhu5IbthJBO-Tj7iqMg=&h=378&w=375&sz=16&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=Gzc2yPk2SaScbM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlittle%2Borphan%2Bannie%2Bpunjab%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D860%26bih%3D480%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C144&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=334&vpy=140&dur=1779&hovh=225&hovw=224&tx=127&ty=123&ei=RTkKTZ_EDIL98Abz4syfAQ&oei=PTkKTf3HKIep8Aal8qWVDA&esq=4&page=1&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&biw=860&bih=480)
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Ella said (regarding the splitting of the Pastun people into Pakistan and Afghanistan by the British):
"MARJ, is that the way it was? Years ago we discussed Gandhi's autobiography (I'll look it up and bring it here if we have it) and as I remember the partition of Pakistan and India it was not the British but the Pakistanis who drew away from India because of religion. I remember it broke Ghandi's heart. Now I must look it all up! Later......."
Ellla, I found the following in Wikipedia, and it looks as if the British did have quite a bit to do with splitting the Pastun people into two different countries:
"The Durand Line refers to the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, which is poorly marked and approximately 2,640 kilometers (1,610 miles) long. It was established after the 1893 Durand Line Agreement between the Government of colonial British India and Afghan Amir Abdur Rahman Khan for fixing the limit of their respective spheres of influence. It is named after Henry Mortimer Durand, the Foreign Secretary of British India at the time. The single-page agreement which contains seven short articles was signed by H. M. Durand and Amir Abdur Rahman Khan, agreeing not to exercise interference beyond the frontier line between Afghanistan and what was then colonial British India (now Pakistan). A joint British-Afghan demarcation survey took place starting from 1894, covering some 800 miles of the border. The resulting Durand Line established the "Great Game" buffer zone between British and Russian interests in the region. This poorly marked border cuts through the Pashtun tribal area and lies in one of the most dangerous places in the world. Although shown on most maps as the western international border of Pakistan, it is unrecognized by Afghanistan. There was no national consensus made in Afghanistan, and a majority of the population were unaware that their native land was planned to be split in half permanently. The original 1893 Durand Line Agreement was written in English, with translated copies in Dari or Pashto language. It is believed however that only the English version was actually signed by Amir Abdur Rahman Khan, a language which he could not read or understand."
My comment: Perhaps that's why the U.S. is having so much trouble trying to keep Pakistan from allowing the Taliban to come over into Pakistan to resupply themselves and then move back to Afghanistan to fight the Americans there. The people are all related.
Just counsins helping cousins.
Marj
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TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
'The ancients are suddenly hot.'
Quite so, Ginny. And so is royalty. And not only Cleopatra. Just look at how much attention The King's Speech is getting.
So I'm happy to see Tories: fighting for the king on Ella's list.
I was ten when the King and Queen came to Canada in June, 1939, as the war clouds were gathering. I was standing on the curb with all my classmates as the royal couple slowly approached in their open limousine. What a thrill when I found the Queen looking into my eyes the whole time it took to pass, even turning her head, to make it seem like an eternity. With what a lovely maternal look. I have never doubted in the many years since, that I was the boy she always wanted.
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Quite so Marj. I have several friends who have left Afghanistan to go to Pakistan to escape the dreaded Taliban. Most of them live in a place called Quetta, South West Pakistan, in their own township called "Hazara Town". The Taliban drop in and out of Pakistan with impunity. Non recognition of a border (as you quoted) allows that to happen. Also fear and tribal fealty. The Taliban and other assorted member of Al Qaida all ride around on motor bikes, causing havoc and shooting Hazaras at will both in Afghanistan and Quetta.
In the beginning when the Taliban were being formed, many of the Mujahaddin joined them, whether for good or bad reasons, no one seems to know. Many, indeed, most of the Taliban were members of Pashtun families, who had previously been members of the Muj. Hamid Karzai is Pashtun and was an active member of the Muj. Work it out.
That long black beard is a dead give away, but is easy to conceal that under robes.
This topic is very very depressing, because all that you wrote and perceive, Marj, is only too true.
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Marj,
That's a spot on article and a spot on comment on your part. Have you read "Three Cups of Tea" and all the problems that the school builder had when although he was focused on building schools for girls in the Pakistan area, when the cousin tribes in NE Afganistan heard about them, they wanted him to do the same for them? Yes, cousins helping cousins probably fits.
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No, Adoannie, I have not read Three Cups of Tea. But I've heard so much about it, I almost feel as if I had. It is so sad the way women and girls are treated there. I am torn between feeling that we should stay and try to help them, and the somewhat stronger feeling that we should get out of there.
Marj
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The December issue of Smithsonian had an excellent article on Cleopatra. The
stories passed about by Octavian after defeating her at Alexandria really
distorted the image we generally have of her. She was a highly competent and
beloved ruler for some 18 years. I hope the new biographies give her the
credit she deserves.
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Another book that blew me away was "A Thousand Splendid Suns" which I led a discussion of in January 2009 on S&F's website. The cruelty to women is just unimaginable!
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Perhaps we should consider discussing this book:
GANDHI AND THE PARTITION OF INDIA by Kamrah Shahid - http://www.dukandar.com/gandhipartition.html
The first few sentences:
"Fifty-Nine years down the road and the story of partition is still a political ideological dilemma for many. Numerous views abound when westerners, Indians or even Pakistanis write about this political event. Objectivity stands to be an 11 letter word guarded by nationalistic endeavour. In this environment of political disdain, a historian, Kamran Shahid, who is rather young for the title, manages to create a niche for his individualistic thinking.
Shahid claims, "In order to get white, one needs to explore black." Thus, in order to know about Pakistan's independence one must first try to understand the Indians. Shahid's maiden venture into book writing, Gandhi and the Partition of India, is a scorecard of who actually was responsible for the partition of the subcontinent
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Ella you might recall that we did discuss a book on Gandhi and the partition of India some 10 years ago. That along time ago so it might be time for a new discussion of a different book.
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Harold, et al - on a whim, I checked BookTV.org to see if they had interviewed S. C. Gwynne (Empire of the Summer Moon). And indeed, he did speak at the 2010 Texas Book Festival this fall. It's about 45 minutes. Click here (http://www.booktv.org/Program/12037/2010+Texas+Book+Festival+SC+Gwynne+Empire+of+the+Summer+Moon.aspx) to get to the site where you can listen to the interview.
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Everyone is invited to join Ella and I as we discuss S.C. Gwynne's "Empire of the Summer Moon" beginning Feb.1st.
This is a great book about the Comanche Nation particularly its later years when it was led by a half bread Chief who carried his mother's family name, Parker. It is the story of the band of Shoshone who left their northwest mountain homeland to wander south and a bit east to the prairie where they became buffalo hunters expert horsemen, and the finest light guerrilla Calvary this word has ever known. Particularly it is the story of Quanah Parker the tragedy beginning with the 1836 massacre of much of the Parker family, the abduction of 9 year old Cynthia Ann Parker who grew up a Comanche, marrying a Comanche Warrior bearing his son Quanah who became the last great Comanche War Chief. It was he who in the end led his people into the reservation and a new life in 20th century America.
The book is available in both print and digital editions from both B&N and Amazon.com. Currently we have three participants committed to this discussion so 4 or 5 more are definitely desirable. Click the following URL for more information and sign-up. http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2003.0
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There is an interesting book being discussed tomorrow on CSpan's BookTV (Sunday, Dec. 19, at 1 PM, Eastern Time): THE FIERY TRIAL; ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND AMERICAN SLAVERY by Eric Foner.
Publishers Weekly's review of THE FIERY TRIAL, says, "A mixture of visionary progressivism and repugnant racism, Abraham Lincoln's attitude toward slavery is the most troubling aspect of his public life, one that gets a probing assessment in this study . Columbia historian and Bancroft Prize winner Foner traces the complexities of Lincoln's evolving ideas about slavery and African-Americans: while he detested slavery, he also publicly rejected political and social equality for blacks, dragged his feet (critics charged) on emancipating slaves and accepting black recruits into the Union army, and floated schemes for colonizing freedmen overseas almost to war's end."
I just finished reading AMERICAN POLITICAL TRADITION by Richard Hofstadter regarding Lincoln and his views on slavery (pages 136 - 154). Hofstadter says that Lincoln was a very good politician. His dilemma was how to find a formula to reconcile the two opposing points of view held by great numbers of white people in the North. Lincoln's success in 1860 was due in no small part to his ability to bridge the gap, a performance that entitles him to a place among the world's great political propagandists.
Hofstadter says "Most of the white people of the Northwest were in fact not only not abolitionists, but actually--and here is the core of the matter--Negrophobes. They feared and detested the very thought of living side by side with large numbers of Negroes in their own states, to say nothing of competing with their labor. Hence the severe laws against free Negroes, for example in Lincoln's Illinois. Amid all the agitation in Kansas over making the teritory a free state, the conduct of the majority of Republicans there was colored far more by self-interest than by moral principle. In their so-called Topeka Constitution the Kansas Republicans forbade free Negroes even to come into the state, and gave only to whites and Indians the right to vote. It was not bondage that troubled them-- it was the Negro, free or slave."
So I think the book discussion on BookTV tomorrow should be interesting.
Marj
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See my comment on History books published in Comic Book format posted on the "Empire of the Summer Moon" Discussion. Click the following URL for this post: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2003.msg98933#msg98933
Also we still need at least severa more readers to make this discussion. Are any of you interested?
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IN case I haven't already said so, I'm definitely planning on joining the discussion. I do have some Cherokee blood, tho' it was fairly thin by the time it got to me. I've always found the various tribal cultures thought-provoking. Some, such as the Navajo, I find especially
moving. The horsemen of the Plains, such as the Comanche, seem very romantic to us today.
I doubt, though, that I would have thought so had I been living there at the time.
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Well, I just finished The Forgotten Man. I was surprised that it was not about ordinary citizens, but mostly about the power people in big business and politics. The book was very readable. I got a better insight into what was going on with the movers and shakers (or controllers and manipulators) during this period, but it left me wanting more detail in some areas. I thought the Coda at the end of the book was a nice touch. She cited Ron Chernow in her acknowledgments. I have one of his books, unread at this point (not Washington).
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"The Forgotten Man" is one of the best non fiction of 2010, for me. I never wanted to stop reading. I am looking forward to reading others, by the author, FRYBABy.
Sheila
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The book sounds very good, FRYBABE and SHEILA, I must look it up but I dare not bring it home from the library. I have so many books to read all of a sudden with a time to be read. I'm not sure how that happened. I usually do not have a "time to be read" on books.
Did you learn new information about the depression? If you are like me you know some of the hardships endured and I have read way too much about FDR (books about him, Eleanor, his staff, etc.) and have been to his Hyde Park home and museum.
There is an excerpt from the book on my library site. I can't bring it here, darn, but I was amused at the phrase that Hoover was so popular that his name became a verb - to "Hooverize"
There's another meaning behind the word "hoover" and it involves cleaning, doesn't it?
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Ella, while Hoover began as an American company, that brand of vacuum became so popular in England that they very often referred to the act of vacuuming as "hoovering". I don't know if they still use the term, but I knew some who did back in the 60s.
If you've already read about FDR, his appointees, and his opponents, then you probably know most of what is in Shlaes' book. I think the title and cover are a bit deceptive. There is a lot about the TVA and its' opponents, some narrative about Tugwell's farm communes, the "war" on big business, and people like Insull, Eccles, Ickes, Mellon, Chase, Moley, and Frankfurter. I can't say I saw anything "new", but the book did fill in the gaps in my knowledge about who was responsible for some of the programs and agencies that sprang up at the time and some of the court cases against citizens who didn't comply with the minimum wage law. I didn't know that Mellon footed the bill for the National Gallery even though he was being prosecuted at the time, nor did I know that a law was passed to punish big business by taxing "undistributed profits". Of course, that backfired. FDR changed his tune just before we got into the war when he realized that big business was in the best position to provide products for the war effort.
Wasn't there a book discussion about the book here last year? Too bad I passed on it at that time.
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I read, and we talked about (not a formal discussion), a biography of Frances Perkins a while back. She was FDR's Secretary of Labor, and the first female cabinet member...an interesting lady and time.
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Almost forgot! I just started a slim volume called Where America's Day Begins: Confessions of a Jungle Journalist by my cousin, Janet Go. Janet spent more than a dozen years on Guam as a civil servant and journalist. She has updated this book to a 2nd edition and has written several novels. Last I heard, she was moving back to Hawaii.
MaryZ: Oh, okay, my memory was a little fuzzy since I didn't participate.
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Well, ny memory isn't nearly as good, as FRYBABY's. I do not remember what I learned in reading "The Forgotten Man", but I DO remember learning quite a few new things. I like the style of the author.
I feel the same way about the book I am now reading. "American Ceasars", by Nigel Hamilton. It begins with FDR, and ends with George W. So far I have learned a lot about what was happening in America during each man's Presidency. My view of Harry Truman has been altered a bit. My view of Ike has improved, a lot. I am now in the middle of the life of Nixon. One of the things that has surprised me the most, is how cooperative most of these men have been with a previous President. I can hardly wait until I reach "W's" story!
Sheila
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One of the things that has surprised me the most, is how cooperative most of these men have been with a previous President
I can well imagine that, SHEILA. Nothing makes you appreciate and understand a person
better than stepping into the same tough job.
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The month-long discussion of FDR's Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins: We were very pleased that the the author, Kirsten Downey, participated to some extent in our discussion.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=587.0
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Do any of you - all of you - remember the book SEABISCUIT by Laura Hillenbrand; that delightful book from which the movie of the book was made? I must look it up, but I think it was perhaps 15-20 years ago that she wrote it and now she has a new book by the title of UNBROKEN. I got the book for Christmas and started reading it; it's unbelievable for many reasons.
One, of course, is that it is so well written that one doesn't want to put it down and, secondly, it is unbelievable that a woman wrote it!!! A WW II book, detailed about the Air Force men and their aircraft, their terrifying missions in the Pacific Theater (as we call it today), the problems with the aircraft, these huge lumbering machines, their differences.
But, the main thrust of the book is a story of "survival, resilience and redemption" of men who were downed by the Japanese Zero fighters and survived in a raft.
What a book! I'm fascinated by it. The author says that when she finished her first book, SEABISCUIT, she felt certain she would never find another subject as interesting to write about until she met Louis Zamperini who has kept records, scrapbooks, photos of his entire life. - many of his photos are in the book. Needless to say, he was one of those on the raft.
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Ella Gibbons Thanks for that recommendation of "Unbroken".
I visited Guadalcanal once and the whole place including Ironbottom Sound; Henderson Field and surrounding areas were places that had the heavy atmosphere of death still present. It had the most tragic air of any place I had been before. I will never forget it.
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I loved the movie "SeaBiscuit". The Book, "Unbroken", sounds like it would make another good movie. I'll check my library for the book.
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The south Pacific, as long as any around remember WWII or read any nonfiction history book, it is surely one of the parts of the book that is very interesting. I'm halfway through UNBROKEN and am wondering how the Japanese feel upon reading this kind of history. What a difference 60 years can bring in the world opinion America's opinion. Enemies are friends and, at times, the reverse is true. The human spirit, patriotism, nationalism, greed, poverty, power, all play a part. Big stories.
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Our Seniornet/books group discussed the Seabiscuit book in 2002. Click the following for the archive.
Ella were you a DL on that project?
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Seabiscuit.html
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So far, I've downloaded only non-fiction books on my ipad.......there are so many free books on line......on Gutenberg, on Questia, and many other sources. I'm reading Women in Industry, published in the early 20th century w/ a lot of history and stats of women's occupations and i found a great women's history text that's used in colleges and is huge and comprehensive, Inventing the American Women. I'm also reading a memoir of a woman who was married to a Goveneur at the turn of the 19th into the 20th century and knew EVERYBODY in NYC and national society......it's just plain fun. What a find!
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YES, I WAS, HAROLD. I loved it. Incidentally, you would like UNBROKEN very well, WWII, campaign in the S. Pacific, the Japanese, the veterans of the campaign afterwards, both Japanese and Americans. My husband was on a carrier in the S. Pacific and would never, never buy anything Japanese afterwards and wouldn't even speak of them or the war.
My daughter, a nurse, works with discharged veterans of the Iraq/Afghanistan war; it's just terrible. Why must we be so engaged?
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JEAN, sounds like fun to me, also. I have yet to get an e-book reader but one will probably be in my furue.
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UNBROKEN, by Laura Hillenbrand, is #2 on the NYT list of nonfiction best sellers. It deserves to be, in my opinion. What a great amount of research the author has done.
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Something to remember about Seabiscuit and Unbroken: the author, Laura Hillenbrand, wrote both books while suffering from an extremely bad case of chronic fatigue syndrome. There were many days when even getting out of bed was almost beyond her strength, and she had to force herself to write. Her husband has been totally supportive of her.
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I dudn't know that about Hillenbrand.
(I tho't i had mentioned this, but i don't see the posting, so forgive me if i'm repeating myself) I'm listening to Andrea Mitchell's memoir titled Talking Back, which i'm enjoying very much. She started her broadcasting career in Phila, and tho i must have seen her, i didn't remember. She tells some stories of the infamous mayor, Frank Rizzo, which are so typical of his blustering and meaness. It's reminding me of all the news stories from the 70's thru to a few yrs ago. One of the most interesting parts is how she and Alan Greenspan have juggled their relationship and her role as a journalist. It would have probably been better for me to have read her book so i could hear "her voice" in my head, the reader sounds very much like Katie Curic and i have to keep reminding myself that this is Andrea Mitchell's story.
I know i wrote this somewhere before, maybe in another section............senior moment.......Jean
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On Unbroken, wasn't Zamperini, who is still alive, just on 60 Minutes? A fascinating program whatever it was, I am so glad he lived to see this day.
I'm half way through Pearl Buck in China by Hilary Spurling and have just reported on it in the Library if you'd like to look, rather than repeat it here, it's also pretty jaw dropping, in different ways.
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JEAN, I didn't know Andrea Mitchel has a memoir out, should I read it? She looks younger all the time, I wish I knew her secret; I have never liked her breathy way of talking but she must be a good reporter.
GINNY, I'll get Pearl Buck in China, did I ever tell you we went to her home in Bucks County, Phil. and one of her adopted children spoke to us? A rather modest home to house all those children, how many were there? 11 or 12 adopted children from many countries but as I remember she never got interested in any of them, but left them up to a staff to raise.
I have spent some delightful hours reading RIVER TOWN, Two Years on the Yangtze, by Peter Hessler. He went to China as a Peace Corp volunteer and wrote this book while there. He must have fallen in love with the country as he new lives in Beijing. A neighbor, who taught in China for two years, would retire there if not for her family living here. Hmmmm!
My sister has left me, boo hoo, after spending some weeks here. I shall be lonely but will have more time to read. This afternoon my daughter and I are going to see SOCIAL NETWORK. Has anyone an opinion of this movie?
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Ella, i found Andrea Mitchell's memoir interesting, many behind the scenes tidbits abt events we all know abt.......i recommend it......jean
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JEAN, I love the quote on your last posting!
ELLA, I just ordered UNBROKEN, on your praise of it. My late husband was on flying status in WWII, stationed on Saipan. I haven't read much about the Pacific Theater. That part of WWII interests me.
Sheila
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I just started Stones into Schools, I believe it is going to be even better than Three Cups of Tea.
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And, speaking of new books, whether they are new just to you or not, there is one that folks have been waiting for. David McCullough's next book, due in May, is titled Greater Journey and is about Americans in Paris. Sounds great doesn't it? As he has said, I believe, it takes him 10 years to research and write a book, so how many more can this 77-year old author keep at it?
What is your favorite McCullough book?
When I think of Americans in Paris, Edward R. Murrow comes to mind; his news team included those in Paris; and then there was the humorist and author, Art Buchwald who was a correspondednt in Paris and wrote a book about it. If you have never read his books, do read them. You'll love them. His first one was about being a Jewish orphan - he wrote about all phases of his life, including one when he was dying. A darling man.
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Murrow's Boysby Lynne Olson and Stanley Cloud, a husband and wife team, was a good read, about the group of reporters that Murrow groomed in Europe and yes they were almost all boys. You will recognize most of their names.
A quote from one Amazon reader is thoughtful:
"The names Murrow, Sevareid, Collingwood, and Shirer have created standards that have been forgotten. Thought has been replaced by good looks. Read this book to see how CBS News became a news operation of mythic proportion with brilliant, yet terribly troubled men creating such high standards that have become forgotten. (You'll see no one on your local five pm television news here.) For these men, the importance was in writing, not pictures. You'll also see how these legendary men were racked with insecurities and self-torture. It's also uncanny
in terms of how each had a rise and fall at CBS. Sadly, it's all true. The authors didn't need to
resort to poetic license. (Read other accounts of these figures and you'll learn that.) When
you're done with this book, you'll wish Howard K. Smith or Robert Trout were still on television
today. You'll wish that instead of having happy talk on the news, you had thoughful, intelligent
people who respected their audience doing reports that provoked the viewer's intellect and
not pander to him. Read how Howard K. Smith was fired from CBS, what prompted it way
back then, and realize the standards have been steadily declining since then on all networks.
It's an enjoyable, easy-to-read book that describes the creation and erosion of impeccable
standards."
I love the comment....."thought has been replaced by good looks" and i agree that it is an"enjoyable, easy-to-read book".
Jean
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
My favorite McCullough book was John Adams but, of course, he had endearing and interesting characters - the Adams - to work with. The book abt the building of tbe Brooklyn bridge bcm tedious after a while. I did also like Mornings on Horseback abt Theodore Roosevelt, it gave a great insight to how TR became TR and the same was true, for me, of Truman.
Jean
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Greetings,
I have liked all the books of David McCullough but the two I enjoyed the most were the building of the Panama Canal ( The Path Between the Seas) and the Brooklyn bridge (The Great Bridge) because I learned so much from each of them. Every time I see the Brooklyn bridge I just stand there in awe. Of the books about people the two that impressed me the most were Truman (I changed my whole opinion of him) and John Adams. I've read several books about John Adams but I felt that this one really brought out his personality. I also enjoy listening to David talk about his books.
Mary
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If you like history, American history, come on over to the EMPIRE OF THE RISING SUN by S.C. Gwynne, sign in, join us as we start the discussion February lst.
The book has been on the NYTimes nonfiction bestseller list for approximately five months, is well written. It will be a good discussion.
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ELLA, and HAROLD, may I make a reccomendation for a future, non fiction discussion? I hope so. It is called: "The Feminist Promise: 1792, to the Presant". by Christine Stansell. I am finding it both interesting and facinating. I would love to take part in a SL discussion of it.
During my education, there was almost no women's history available. I find that sad. I heard about Clara Barton, Betsy Ross, Jane Adams, and Elizabeth Cady. No other women in my memory. I was never taught about women's sufferage in France, at the time of their Revolution, in 1792. Yet, my head is full of men's history. I think that reading, and discussing this book, would help balance out my education.
Thanks for considering this.
Sheila
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YEs, we certainly will, Sheila. I'll look at it next visit to my library - is it a history of feminism or individuals who have made a difference? Tell us more about it.
Did you notice, Sheila, that UNBROKEN by Laura Hillenbrand was at the top of the NYT Nonfiction list? Such a good book. I boght it and it is circulating among friends and I don't know who has it now, but I think I will recommend it to our condo book club.
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ELLA, I think it is about both. The story of women's sufferage, around the world, is also the story of the women who worked for it. I am not far enough into it, to be sure, yet. I will post about it, periodically, as I read
Yes, I have noticed that "Unbroken" is at the top of the list. So far, I have not begun reading it. Am reading 4, other books, right now. One of which is 'Empire of the Summer Moon." It is really interesting!
Sheila
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Speaking of women's history, I suggest reading a book that I am almost finished with and enjoying immensely. Entitled "The Girl With the Gallery" by Lindsay Pollack, its a most interesting true story about the art world in NYC and elsewhere in the world over the 20th century and a very independent young lady who wanted to represent the American modern artists and to promote the Modern Art Market. How she accomplished it, starting when she was 15 yrs old and met Alfred Steiglitz at his art dealership called "291" is quite a story.
Edith Gregor Halpert was born in Odessa, Russia in 1900. She was 6yrs old when the pograms against the Jews started. Since her mother, Frances, was widowed and raising Edith and her sister, Sonia alone, she decided to take the girls and move to the U.S. Frances had a brother living in NYC and she took an apartment in Harlem.
The author is a journalist for Bloomberg News. She also writes for ARTNews, Art & Auction and the Art Newspaper. She has also worked for Sotheby's auction house. She knows the world of art!
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Any relation to Jackson Pollack, I wonder??
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Good Question !
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As to the Gallery authors's last name of Pollack, I thought that maybe she was related to Jackson also but couldn't find any reference to that idea on "Google".
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That sounds like a really interesting book. Will check with my library.
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Unbroken has a wait-list of 21 at my library. That tells me that it is worth
waiting for.
JOY
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Only 21?? I am in line for the large print because its only 56 waiting through. The regular print is 276 long! Uggggg!
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You can probably buy the book second-hand before you come up on
that list, ANNIE. :D
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Ella has offered me her copy of "Unbroken"!! Should I say 'yes'? That doesn't take much thought! Thanks, Ella.
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I would like to suggest two, non fiction books, for our discussion. How can I do that? One is: "The Feminist Promise: 1792 to the Present", by Christine Stansell. The other is: "American Ceasars", by Nigel Hamilton.
Sheila
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Thank you all for your suggestions.
I have a question. It is my turn at my condo book club to suggest our next book. I am thinking of WEST WITH THE NIGHT by Beryl Markham - what do you think?
As much older book, but wonderful to read! Our library doesn't have many copies but I can buy one or two very good used ones for $3.50 each.
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Thomas Fleming, historian and fiction writer has an interesting article in the History Network News where he is " channeling Geo Washington", sending his valentine to the ladies, a fun and informative article.
http://hnn.us/articles/136241.html
I was just talking w/a friend abt The Feminist Promise, she's going to loan me her copy. I'd love to read and discuss it w/ this group. Jean
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West with the Night is on my radar, but I haven't bought it yet. Trying to catch up on my giant stack before buying more. There seems to be some controversy as to whether she wrote the book or whether her 3rd husband did.
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Hey Mabel,
What a treat to read that interview! Just delightful! And I noticed that one can continue to read "Channeling George Washington" articles by clicking on a link provided. That's what I will be doing for today! Wait, company is coming tomorrow! Must finish up the house cleaning!
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I enjoyed "Channeling george". Those stories are told in greater detail in "Founding Mothers" which we discussed a while ago. Although I don't remember the story of spy 355.
Benedict Arnold's wife was also a spy. She had so fooled the American generals, that even after Arnold was detected, they assumed she was innocent until further information came to light. She managed to escape to England. But Washington definately wouldn't be sending a valentine to her: he was one of those fooled by her!
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I have "adopted" an American Lady!! She was born 1732 and died 1769. I took a rubbing of her grave stone which I found in Town Hill Cemetery, Lincoln, Middlesex County, Massachussetts, when I was in Boston. I don't remember how I got to this graveyard, but it was on a hill along with many other old gravestones. I brought the rubbing back to Australia and told myself that one day I would do a search for her. So I did...
Her name was Kezia nee Conant Adams and before she married she came from Concord. She was a descendant of one Roger Conant who was christened in England in 1592. He had been a "salter" but wanted to seek his fortune in America. He arrived in New England, Plymouth and then moved to Nantasket. (I don't have a date, but possibly he would have been between 20 and 30.) He was offered a position as Governor at Cape Ann. After that I couldn't find any more about him, but I am pretty sure that he was related to my Kezia. I wonder what he and Kezia would have thought if they knew that a rubbing of her gravestone was now lovingly kept by an Australian woman. Australia wasn't even thought of in 1592. Living history fascinates me as does ancient, as most of you know.
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I saw on one of the "history'mystery" type show on the History Channel - i'm not sure if that is the title of the show or not, might be- but it was about spies in the Am Rev'n and ended w/a long segment on spy 355.
I grew up in Shippensburg, Pa. and it had a stationary shop called The Peggy Shippen Shoppe. I'm sure the owner thot that was a cute feminine name related to the town. PS was a niece of our founder, and i'm sure the owner knew nothing else abt her, or she probably wouldn't have put that name on her shop or have wanted her shop associated w/ Benedict Arnold or the REAL Peggy Shippen!
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The History Channel is showing their usual stories abt the presidents this presidents day week. They have a very interesting docu on Jackson, a man of dichotomy. Jean
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PBS had an interesting film on Jimmy Carter. But I wish they had spent more time on his activities after his presidency.
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A friend just loaned me herbook "First Family" by Joseph Ellis about John and Abigail Adams. Has anybody read it? I'll be curious to compare it to MCCullogh's John Adams. ....... Jean
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No, I enjoyed MCCullogh's John Adams a lot. Let me know how it is.
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Have, any of you seen any of the broadcasts of college and university classrooms presentations on CSPAN's American History TV channel? What a brilliant idea! To give everybody a chance to hear these experts in their field, to put us "in" the class rooms of our great universities.............I'm in heaven, and have sent CSPAN an email thanking them for giving me this privilege. I'm watching a seminar in Women and the Civil War from Purdue, given by Caroline Janney. It's nice to know college students are learning some women's history....... Jean
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I love all CSpan channels! We only get three in the package we subscribe to, but I'm so glad to have those.
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What a great idea, JEAN. I'm not certain what CSPAN channels we have,
if any. I'll need to check on that.
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I have all three C-Span channels, Jean.
When do they show these classroom presentations? Is there a website that you can look at to see when one might care to tune in?
I didn't watch BookTV at all this weekend, I hope I didn't miss a good one, did I?
I did watch the Oscars, and I thought it was the worst in years! Why do I watch those stupid shows? I agreed with them that Colin Firth was great in THE KING'S SPEECH. The remark between Helen Mirren and Colin was funny (she having been Queen Elizabeth and Colin her father)- about the only humorous thing the whole night!
You need a good MC to anchor the show and the young generation cannot produce one, it seems to me.
I heard a remark from some critic on TV that movies used to be for family, particularly for women. Now they are all for men, war, fighting, science fiction, action, action.
Do you find that to be true?
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Ella said "I heard a remark from some critic on TV that movies used to be for family, particularly for women. Now they are all for men, war, fighting, science fiction, action, action. Do you find that to be true?"
Yes, I think too many of them are for young men and involve IMO too much of the technical stuff they use now to make the movies exciting, but to me are just boring. But guess who buys all the tickets for the theater while most of us watch Netflix?
And they can't seem to write really good humor for the program's hosts, just same old trite stuff. They showed a scene from when Bob Hope hosted the Awards way back when, and he was funny.
However, there were some excellent films nominated this year, and some with excellent roles for women, including Melissa Leo who was fantastic as the mother in The Fighter, Winter's Bone, Black Swan, and a few I haven't seen yet.
Speaking of films for the family, I've heard that Toy Story 3 is a wonderful film.
Marj
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I didn't know CSpan had a classroom. Which CSpan channel is it?
Ella, you do know, do you not, that you can read the BookTV schedule online at BookTV.org. And you can also watch a lot of the programs you miss by going to that website. I get a lot of great recommendations for nonfiction books from that website, as I often don't have time to watch the program. I did watch the debate this weekend on what to do with illegal aliens, and just got my innards in an uproar doing so. Those who want to grant them all amnesty can come up with some really dumb names for them, IMO, like "irregular persons" I think one academic philosophy professor likes to call them.
Marj
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marj, Toy Store 3 is great - definitely will get you emotionally involved. Also see Up and Despicable Me.
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The programs i was talking abt, viewing history lectures from college classrooms, is on CSPAN's American history tv channel, CSPAN 3. Yes, you can see the schedule on either CSPAN.org, which shows the schedules for all 3 channels, or Americanhistorytv.org. Yes, i think all their programs, especially the history prigrams are in their archives...... Jean
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Jean said, "The programs i was talking abt, viewing history lectures from college classrooms, is on CSPAN's American history tv channel, CSPAN 3. Yes, you can see the schedule on either CSPAN.org, which shows the schedules for all 3 channels, or Americanhistorytv.org. Yes, i think all their programs, especially the history prigrams are in their archives"
Thanks, Jean. I have CSpan 3 -- will look for the classroom schedule.
Marj
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I think I don't have CSPAN3. And I should. It's supposed to be free.
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I have found many classes and courses from Yale, Harvard etc [17 in all ] originally I started at Harvard's JUSTICE with prof Sandel. You can find it on u tube and search from there for other courses available. It's a wonderful advantage. I think you can practically get a 2 yr. liberal arts education.
AMICAH
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Youtube and hulu also provide video of college classes, or other educational scources. Here is a site that talks abt them and gives links to them.
http://m.lifehacker.com/5185679/youtube-edu-brings-free-education-to-the-masses
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If you go to youtube/education, the first screen up today is alot of junky things abt Gharlie Sheen, etc. Put a subject in the search line to see lectures that interest you......
Itunes also has a "U", here's a link to learn abt it
http://www.apple.com/education/itunes-u/whats-on.html.
Jean
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Welcome Amicah.
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Welcome, Amicah. It's wonderful that you've already studied 17 courses from Ivy League colleges. The resources available on the Internet amaze me every day.
Mabel, thanks for those links.
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I just put this on The Library then realised it should probably have gone here - has anyone read "Bird Cloud" by Annie Proulx, a non-fiction book about the building of her house in rural Wyoming?
it is being serialised on BBC Radio 4 and and is really good, both the descriptions and the bits about the people she meets, such as her very particular builder. She makes you wish you could do just what she's doing - ie design your very own custom built home in the wilderness.
Rosemary
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ROSEMARY, having once lived through the remodeling of a kitchen,
(while I was still required to produce meals from it) has left me with no
desire at all to suffer through the building of an entire home. I am
perfectly happy to watch other people, on TV, spiffing up their homes,
tho'.
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I am reading a non fiction book for my Museum bookclub ...It is called Museum Legs by Amy Whitaker.. I am just beginning the book so i cannot tell you much about it yet...I am sure that I will enjoy it since it is about Art...Joan Grimes
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Babi - I know! I had my kitchen extended in February one year (they were supposed to have started in September, husband agreed to Feb...). The whole of the back of the house was open to the elements, the snow was coming in the front door (which they had permanently open) and going out the back. It was absolutely dreadful, though I was pleased with the result!
Joan - what is a "museum book"? Are you in a museum related reading group? Sounds interesting!
R
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Oh my gosh, ROSEMARY. Your exerience was far worse than mine.
I can't imagine how you survived! Let me guess... Your husband, who
agreed to Feb., was away at his warm office while the front door was
open all day?
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Babi - I expect he was in Paris - he used to work for a French company and go there almost every week. And yes, I bet his office in La Defense was as snug as a bug :)
R
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Joan - what is a "museum book"? Are you in a museum related reading group? Sounds interesting!
I am sorry Rosemary. It was supposed to be bookclub... I am a volunteer docent at the Museum of art here in Birmingham, Alabama, USA... I have been on leave since i broke my leg last June and am trying to get back into giving tours at the museum.. I love art and art museums... I will not do any tours until next Fall though because my walking is still too slow and painful to take a group through the museum..
Joan Grimes
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Spreading the word...
The Final ballot for Spring Discussions is now open until March 13. The original 14 titles are down to 7! You'll find the Ballot Box in the heading of the Suggestion Box (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.msg108936#new)
Remember to choose THREE titles.
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I think we were talking on this site abt the broadcast of university classrooms on CSPAN 3 (American Historytv). Here's the bit from their newsletter for a class this week.
"Sat. 8 pm, Midnight; Sun. 1 pm ET
Professor Edna Medford teaches a course on African American history at Howard University in Washington, DC. Today's lecture focuses on the participation of African Americans in the Civil War, who fought for both the North and the South, and President Lincoln's relationship with Frederick Douglass."
If you go to their site you can get a e-newsletter sent to you. ....... Jean
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Sounds good, Jean. Saturday is generally such a poor night for TV, it
would be good to have something like that to watch.
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Maybe I'm the only one interested in this kind of stuff, but am reading George Kennan's DECISION TO INTERVENE. Its the really interesting story of President Wilson's sending almost 8,000 U.S. troops to Siberia in 1918 for a stay of almost two years during Russia's Civil War after the Bolsheviks had deposed the Tsar. Wilson hoped, as did Britain and France, that they could help the "White" Russians keep the Red Russians (communists) from completely taking over Russia. Of course, it was a failure.
Now I want to read WHITE GUARD, a novel by Mikhail Bulgakov (Master and Margarita), about how one family was affected by this turbalent period of fighting between the Red and White Russians. I'd read Dr. Zhivago some years ago, but did not realize that that book was also set during this period.
Marj
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NO MARJ, you are not the only one interested in history; whether it be U.S. history or World History. I need a good nonfiction book to read, I'll look it up. We have discussed a book on Woodrow Wilson before; can't remember the name of it or maybe it was a book about the Paris Peace Conference. It's in our archives. Did we discuss Dr. Zhivago also - well, I'll look it all up, my memory fades with the years.
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I'll bet the book you mentioned, Ella, was Margaret MacMillan's PARIS 1919 about the peace treaty negotiations in Verailles after WWI. I read that -- a very interesting book.
I've been shelving my stacks of books that I've bought over the past several years in some new bookcases. Have found some interesting books I'd forgotten I had, including George Kennan's RUSSIA LEAVES THE WAR and the sequel, DECISION TO INTERVENE. Like you, I really enjoy reading history.
Marj
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If it just Modern History you enjoy reading, I can't help. But (BIG but) if it is Ancient History written by a modern author who is an expert in her field, you just must read "Helen of Troy" by Bettany Hughes. It is superb. You may have seen Bettany Hughes on your equivalent TV channel to BBC in the UK.
Also this is a bit of a "plug" for "The Odyssey" that (or which) we are discussing on the Classics Board. Come see 8)
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That book sounds very interesting, Roshanarose. If we're talking about ancient history, tho,' my preferance is really to read about, say, Alexander the Great or the Caesars of Rome versus someone who may or may not have been an actual person like Helen of Troy or King Arthur. I loved reading all the books on mythic heros written by Mary Renault. Have you read her?
My favorite author who wrote about comparative mythology is Joseph Campbell, expecially his The Hero with a Thousand Faces. He wrote about how similar themes of mythology have occurred throughout the world, such as that of the virgin birth of a savior, and the resurrection of a savior/hero from the dead, etc.
I read the Odyssey and the Iliad some time ago at college when studying Greek History, and really enjoyed them. We also read several of the works by the Greek playwrites. I'd like to read some of those plays again if they were to be read in the Classics group here.
Marj
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Marjifay: I'm keen on the Greek plays too as are a couple of others who are reading Odyssey. Antigone was on the ballot this first time around so it or another of the plays is likely to be renominated for discussion sometime in the future. But that will be quite a length of time away.
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I'm in the middle of so many books, it's ridiculous! I'm reading Elizabeth C. Stanton' s autobio on the ipad. It's free from Kindle. It's title is Eighty Years and More. It really is delightful reading, not at all typical of the looooonnnnggg sentences and paragraphs of nineteenth centuries writers. I've only gotten thru her childhood and young adulthood to her marriage. Have not gotten into her activism years.
I have two books borrowed from friends which i must read w/in a reasonable period of time and return them. One is The Feminist Promise by Christine Stansell, which is a history of feminism in the U.S. I'm facilitating the course on Womrn's History in Apr and May at the Medford Leas senior community, so i want to have it read before i begin the course. It's quite interesting. The other borrowed book is First Family about the Adams by Joe Ellis. His books are always easily read.
I've got Thomas Fleming's The Intimate Lives of Our Founding Fathers on the nightstand. His books are also easy reading and well researched. Also on the nightstand is Boone by Robert Morgan. Just started but it also is a good read.
Jean
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Marjifay ; My favourite book about Ancient Rome is "The Twelve Caesars" by Suetonius. I have read Mary Renault, yes, but I was so young I can't remember now. I think the trouble with reading a book about a character say like Helen written by a historian is that sometimes the writer writes too much in textbook style. I read enough of those when I studied Classics. I always preferred Herodotus to Thucydides. My favourite Greek play/satire is "Lysistrata" by Aristophanes. I also like "Phaedra", Racine I think. Alexander: Lots written about him. I lent a Greek lady a good book about him byut I haven't seen it since. Can't remember what happened.
Campbell is great - I have seen a couple of TV specials of his. Frazier "The Golden Bough" is wonderful, we all read it in our hippy days. But my favourite is Robert Graves "The White Goddess", his cross referencing is amazing!
btw the Jury is still out as to whether Helen existed or not. Come visit the Classics site.
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Campbell is a really good read, and relevant to everything from Homer to "Star Wars".
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JEAN, how do you keep those various stories separate in your mind? I'm afraid I would
start confusing what I'm reading in one with another, especially when they are dealing with
similar subjects and times.
I looked up Robert Graves' "The White Goddess" after you mentioned it, ROSHANA. It sounds
like something Barb. St. Aubrey would be interested in. I'll mention it over in the poetry site and
cite you, if that's okay.
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Thanks, Roshanarose, for your recommendation of "The Twelve Caesars." I've put it on my Library hold list. Have always meant to read more about Roman history, but have not gotten around to it. Got more interested while studying Latin with Ginny's class here.
Marj
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Babi, since they're all giving me facts abt the people or events, i don't need to keep them straight per book. ;D :D i just keep adding info to my brain computer. If there is specific info tthat i might want to refer back to, i make a copy of the page. Generalky i am not reading abt the same people or events at the same time.
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Keep up the good work, JEAN. I'm afraid my brain computer is getting a bit old and cranky.
Lots of data stored there, but I can't always retrieve it. ??? :'(
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Babi - my friends and I frequently say that our hard drives are full....
R
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Being of an older, less technical generation, I usually say my file
drawers are stuck. :P
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Regarding the Margaret Macmillan “Paris 1919” title this was one of the best discussions that I have been involved in . We had an international group of participants. It also led to several other discussions including Hemingway’s “Movable Feast” and the Razor’s Edge. The archived discussion s of this series are as follows
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Paris1919.html
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/MoveableFeast.htm
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/fiction/RazorsEdge.htm
The seniorlearn powers that be have achieved the “Movable Feast” title incorrectly as a fiction book. It was most certainly a nonfiction experience account of the 1920’s Paris life of the author although some of his friends might have cause to question the truth off the authors account relative to themselves.
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I love that one, Babi! -- (your file drawers are stuck) LOL I like to say I have a photographic memory -- I just don't have same-day service.
Marj
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HaroldArnold - that is very interesting (I was not here when you had those discussions).
I wondered if you had read any of Joan Wyndham's books - in particular "Love Lessons", which is her book about her upbringing and early career in Bohemian, pre-war, Chelsea? I picked up on her from my reading of The Assassin's Cloak, a wonderful collection of excerpts from people's diaries (I think I mentioned it elsewhere) - I had never heard of her before. The Assassin's Cloak arranges all these excerpts under each day of the year - so you might read an excerpt from Samuel Pepys and another from Andy Warhol, and can see what they were each doing on the same day, hundreds of years apart.
This is a link about Joan Wyndham:
http://www.joanwyndham.com/
and this is a link about The Assassin's Cloak:
http://thebookling.blogspot.com/2008/01/assassins-cloak.html
Rosemary
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LOL, that's a good one, too, MARJ.
"The Assassin's Cloak" sounds great, ROSEMARY. I'm going to see if I can locate a copy.
I do wonder, tho', why they used that title for a collection of diary excerpts. Do you
know?
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Thanks, Harold. I've moved "Moveable Feast" into the Nonfiction archives.
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i really liked Moveable Feast. In fact it was the only book by Hemingway I liked.
Marj
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Babi - I didn't know either until I found the link that I posted - if you scroll right down to the bottom of the page, the writer explains that it is from a quote by William Soutar (1934) (no idea who he was):
"A diary is a an assassin's cloak that we wear when we stab a comrade in the back with a pen"
Alan Taylor, who co-authored the book, is a well known journalist at, I think, the Glasgow Herald.
Rosemary
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Ah, good quote, thank you, ROSEMARY. It does make one suspicious of Mr. Soutar's output,
tho', doesn't it? ;)
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I just have to share this thought that I read - I love the books Akiko Busch writes - I am reading "Geography of Home" and she makes this statement that I had to put the book down in awe it is so true.
She is discussing how today, although we like the idea of older traditional homes, our life and desire for rooms to accommodate our lifestyle is very different than the organized center hall with living on the right, dining on the left, kitchen in the back and bedrooms up stairs. She continues by giving examples of coexisting technology and nostalgia - and then in this chapter she makes this profound statement -
"We tend to reject the formal ceremony of the dining room and put the computer on the dining room table, or sort the laundry there. Then, missing the sense of ritual in our lives, we turn to the ceremonies of Native Americans or Tibetan monks. Such incongruities can confuse our lives. But I would argue that they are also the very basis for finding comfort at home. If anything, where we live can be a place that celebrates and thrives on these incongruities that have, in one way or another, been gracefully resolved..."
I love it - yes, we decide the ceremony of Sunday dinner or Wednesday night Supper with mother's good china and grandmother's silver is too much work but, we have Cd's playing and will pick up tickets to listen to the Tibetan monks chant throat singing and join a group once a week to mediate in a silent place. Oh dear, we are funny - Is it novelty we want in our life or, the excitement of something new and exotic or, just keeping up with what others have decided is the 'in' thing.
I love this author's books - she always makes me re-examine and think...Geography of Home (http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Home-Akiko-Busch/dp/1568984294/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3)
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Don't know about anyone else, but I've come to be awfully tired of Tibetan monks chanting. (LOL)
The book sounds interesting, Barb. Reminds me of a family on a neighboring farm when I was young who had what I thought was odd -- a closed off living room that they never used. Ours was always full of books, newspapers, maybe an ironing board in use....
Marj
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I very much suspect, BARB, that in our very modern lives we miss the sense of traditions
that go back over generations. We miss that sense of inner peace that we then go looking
for in meditation or other spiritual outlets. Home is supposed to meet the needs of our
practical lives, but sometimes we forget that we have needs beyond the practical.
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Barb, that sounds like a very interesting, thoughtful book. I'm looking for it.
I look at our dining area - it's everything, the heart of the house, and has been since we had little children. No you've got me thinking what we can do to make the rest of the area (it's all one flowing room) as inviting.
We have a friend with MS who can no longer go without a wheelchair - their dining room in their traditional home is now the bedroom - out of necessity - but it's off the living room and we're all very comfortable there knowing that he is comfortable too.
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It's true nlhome we have so much stuff, most of it momentous from either our children or events in our lives and then tons of furniture that we really are no longer using as intended - I keep trying to clear out but it is slow going - and then I look around and realize how dated everything is about my home -
Oh it is nice to get it to the point we imagined or we decided that other things were more important than gussying up our home - but the effort is such a lift at Christmas even if the effort is not as great as when the kids were here and so I have to ask, why do I not make an effort for other times of the year -
It really isn't that hard to paint one room - and I have wanted to plan one day a week to fix tea - I have several wonderful tea pots - lovely china and silver - heck I could bring in a small quiche and even if it was only a muffin - and cut a sprig of something even if a branch of new leaves - Yes, and put on some music - oh and for me - ahuh that is it - it will be my poetry reading hour - Yes - once a week - a nicely set tea - I will try for Thursday or if no appointments Friday is good since I do watch all the news shows on PBS on Friday evening - it will make a nice beginning of a weekend - Nope can't do that - If I want this I have to make a firm time like going to Mass on Sunday. Thursday it is...
Thanks nlhome you have encouraged me to take this one step further and live in my home rather than exist in my home and use my 'things' which isn't the same as 'stuff'.
Now my front dining room table has become a storage - when I had my eye done in the fall I put on it all the DVDs so I would not have to bend down to retrieve them thinking I was going to be immobile far longer than I was - of course never cleared them off - the excuse - I still need the other eye done - now I decided to wait till next fall for the other eye so why are all those DVDs on the table.
Since I rarely use the front Dining room as a place to dine maybe I should rethink the room - but then if my friend at age 92 can prepare and have me up for dinner every Wednesday night why am I not planning something that I would enjoy sharing with others if not once a week at least once a month - hmmm lots to think upon - I need to finish Akiko Busch's book and see if her ideas spark something for me...
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Have fun, Barb.
We too are trying to sort out and simplify, too much "stuff." But as soon as we get an area cleared, it seems to get filled up - it doesn't help that we are still a storage place for our children as they move around. But, then, we do get to see them a bit more often.
Something else to ponder: as we sortted some old boxes, we came across our very first tax returns - such memories, such little income! And more, we found a packet "love letters" which were a few special letters I saved, and some letters from my parents when I was first married. My husband and I chuckled over the "love letters" and reminisced, and enjoyed the letters from my folks who were trying to ease our homesickness as we were far from home those early years. Lots of memories.
But, my husband said, what will our children have to hold in their hands and look at? Who writes love letters these days? (My future SIL says they saved some of their emails - but will they be able to read those as technology changes?)
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oh you know that is another that has gone by the boards - again, my friend Charlotte every morning sits at a table overlooking her patio filled with potted plants and bird feeders and sends out some cards and notes - now that is something I could consider at my weekly tea - I have no way of knowing if the notes would be saved but the idea fills me with a feeling I am really here and not something as fleeting as a cyber message.
Golly there is more to reconsider - it is us that let these oldies but goodies slide - it seemed the thing to do - I am remembering a magazine - maybe Victoria - but it was charming and filled with marvelous photography that captured what was good about how we lived. So I become what is eccentric for today - if I can't be eccentric then too bad - it is time!
I have thrown out so much and now I am thinking I would have made other choices - well better then it all going to a dump so onward - not up to living like Tasha Tudor but a bow now and then to the little things that mattered not so long ago.
I bet you did feel a tickle re-reading those love letters - so glad you AND your husband could share in those memories. How special...
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Well I am one of the eccentric ones too Barb!
I still write letters by hand to my mother and to the two of my children who are away, also to friends abroad and in other parts of the UK. The thing I have found is that it is possible to keep up a correspondence so long as the other person reciprocates - hence I have (like most of us I expect) lost touch with people who say "I love getting your letters" but never write back. I have a good friend in the south of England that I see maybe once in 2 years, but she is a great correspondent and we have written through our marriages, babies, jobs, and now our children leaving home. My children, need I tell you, never respond, but I let them off :) I find writing a proper letter very enjoyable when I have time. Emails are fine, but you can't hold them in your hand. Also I am also slightly wary about putting anything too personal in an email, whereas I know my friends will keep letters to themselves. The only problem I am having these days is that I spend so much time typing that my hands seem to have forgotten how to write for more than a few pages without my thumbs becoming quite painful.
I think the idea of laying a proper tea for yourself is wonderful. That is something I am very lazy about - when I am here on my own I tend to live on coffee and handfuls of nuts and raisins.
I love the picture of your friend writing overlooking her patio. One thing I have been thinking of doing when I have finally moved properly is to acquire some good quality writing paper and a fountain pen - my letters at the moment tend to be scribbled on any old paper I can find. Two of my friends have been to calligraphy classes, and their writing is so beautiful you almost want to frame it.
Rosemary
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Good question, NL. As we move more and more into paperless technology, what will the
mementos of the future be? Photos, maybe? They are still being preserved, aren't they?
Not that that would be much help to people like me, who never got in the habit of taking
lots of pictures. (After the first baby, that is.) I still have a box full of photos
that others have taken and shared, that I doubt very much I'll ever get sorted and placed
in yet more albums.
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Yes, my husband and I are blessed to be able to share the memories in those old letters. I think there is another collection - some from his days in Vietnam - and I'll have to pull those out.
I have several boxes of "retirement projects," one of which is pictures. My goal is to save the best, in order, and dispose of all those odd faces and bad colors - except that sometimes those are the only reminders. I read an article today, on line, can't remember which newspaper, about a woman who had inherited some beautiful costume jewelry from an aunt. She displayed her favorite pieces in a shodow box and gave the rest away. Then she took all her photos, selected the ones she really want to keep, had then blown up and framed them for one big picture wall. That's the kind of person I'd like to be - but I suspect I won't.
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I like to collect greeting cards. The ones from my ex I love, but they make me feel so sad; the ones from my daughter always remind me of our life's journey in which she is the only constant; birthday cards from present and long-lost friends; wedding day wishes and also cards sent to my mother and father for their birthdays from friends and family.
When I was teaching I had a completely different class every 10 weeks as the students would go up to the next level, or go back to their countries of origin. Each class bought me a Thank You card which they all signed, adding their own little comments, a photo of the class and sometimes small gifts from their countries. Ahhh happy to see them improve, but also sad to lose them. The next class would nearly always make up for it though.
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I save the cards in which the giver has written a personal and meaningful note. These mean so
much.
I do like the idea of discarding the old photos that are blurred, or of people I don't recall at all.
That should reduce the pile a bit. The only hope, however, is that I recall the idea one day when
I'm really bored. ::)
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How lovely to have the memory of each successive group of students - there is an idea that more teachers need to be aware of... reminds me of the annual class photos I have of my kids when they were in grade school.
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I'm reading The Intimate Lives of the Founding Fathers by Thomas Fleming. So far i've read about 100 pages which have been abt Geo and Martha Washington and their children and grandchildren. I've read a lot about the ff's, so i thought it might be boring, but i've learned some new things. If the next part is John and Abigail, i may skim it. I haven't looked to see who else it talks about. ..... Has anyone else read it?....... Jean
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I am happy to say that I've found Michael Grant's "Readings from the Ancient Hisorians" really
interesting reading. I am presently reading excerpts from Tacitus who has got to be one of the
most readable historians ever. Fascinating glimpses of the early Augustan age. Truly, all of it
has been a great introduction into the beginnings of written history in Europe.
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All your posts about discarding, cleaning up the past, getting ready for the future, are interesting to read. And the books you are reading. I'm a nonfiction reader for the most part, but out of necessity I do read fiction. I stopped in at Barnes & Noble one day recently to look at new nonfiction and the store has changed so much - half of the store is their NOOK BUSINESS. Make way for tomorrow!
I'm listening to a very good book while I exercise - and as I had to pay a fine because it was overdue I know I'm not exercising enough.
GHOST TRAIN TO THE EASTERN STAR by Paul Theroux, a very entertaining travelogue, but serious at times. Travelling through France he observed the battleground of WWI and recalled the Battle of the Somme - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Somme
He stated that Britain and France, both colonial powers in those days, took the gold and diamonds from their colonies and taught them civilization.
And what is America doing in the Middle East?
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Thanks for recommending that book by Michael Grant, Babi. I'll get it. I read some of Herodotus' Histories when I was studying Greek history and really liked it. The Grant book of readings sounds interesting.
Ella, I have Ghost Train to the Eastern Star by Paul Theroux on my TBR list. This book was recommended by AdoAnne in SrLearn some time ago (Is she still around?). I'll have to find it and give it a read. Sounds interesting.
I've been reading Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel with another group, and loving it. Altho it's fiction I've learned a lot of English history from the Henry VIII period about Thomas Cromwell, Thomas More, Cardinal Wolsey and others.
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Am reading Boone by Robt Morgan. It's interesting, but the writer doesn't always seem to have currant history abt the period. Even tho in the preface he says one of the reasons for writing another book on Boone wasto be inclusive of Native Americans and the women in Boone's life, he doesn't have the current info on NA women's lives.
He also writes passively and generically which has been one of the ways of making women invisible in history. I.e. He writes Europen-Am'ns learned many things from NA's, learning to hunt various animals in the way NA's hunted; learned how to prepare hides for use as housing and clothing and to use sinews and bones for thread and how to use native herbs (etc).
Most contemporary historians know that is was women who prepared the hides, made the clothing, knew abt herbs and even did much of the trading, but the way he writes it, putting those skills together w/ hunting leads people who wouldn't think abt it too long to continue to think of "men" when the term "Native Americans" is used. I'll continue thru the book, at least for a while, bcs i know little abt Boone. .... Jean
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I found Grant's introduction and analysis on each historian especially helpful, MARJ. It
put what I was reading into perspective.
AdoAnnie is definitely around. You can find her more frequently in some of the other
discussions.
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Babi I tried to find the book by Grant on Amazon - are there more words to the title - he seemed to have written many books about both the Greeks and the Romans but I could not find one iwth the exact name you posted earlier. It sounds fascinating and something I may like to also read.
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Presently I am reading "The Ancient Olympic Games" by Judith Swaddling. I am not really "sporty", but I have been to Olympia and that fact, makes this book even more fascinating. The Games were meant to be religious and dedicated to Zeus. Only the winners received the kudos and an olive wreathes to wear in their hair; there were no prizes for second and third. The part I found most interesting was about the horse races. One charioteer handling four horses, going full pelt around the hippodrome appealed to my imagination. The book is full of illustrations both colour and black and white. Naturally, most of the depictions of the ancient games are from vases and the ancient site itself.
Info from US Amazon
Judith Swaddling is an Assistant Keeper in the Department of Greek and Roman Antiquities at the British Museum. Paperback: 112 pages
Publisher: University of Texas Press; Second Edition edition (2000)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0292777515
ISBN-13: 978-0292777514
Product Dimensions: 9.7 x 7.5 x 0.4 inches
Shipping Weight: 15.8 ounces
Average Customer Review: 4.5 out of 5 stars See all reviews (2 customer reviews)
2 Reviews
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Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #1,181,039 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
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Barb, I don't think Michael Grant's Readings from the Ancient Historians is in print any longer. I got mine in a used book store over a year ago. Alibris lists a bunch of them for $.99. Hmmmmm! I think I paid something like $6 or $8 for mine.
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Oops, sorry, BARB. I was quoting Grant's title from a faulty recall. It is actually
"Readings from the Classical Historians", not the 'ancient'.
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My goodness the man wrote a vast number of books - the closest that I can find on Amazon is probably this one -
"Greek and Roman Historians: Information and Misinformation"
However, he does have a few interesting titles like:
- Greek and Latin Authors, 800 B.C.-A.D. 1000: A Biographical Dictionary
- Myths of the Greeks and Romans
- A Social History of Greece and Rome
- A guide to the ancient world
- The Ancient Historians: Plutarch, Herodotus, Tacitus, Xenophon, Polybius, Josephus, Caesar, Cato, Livy, Sallust, Eusebius, Ammianus, Suetonius
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Right Barb, how did I miss that last night. I have yet to read mine, so you are way ahead of me.
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ROSE: am I right in remembering that the prize didn't always go to the fastest, but was voted on? Or was that later, under the Romans.
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JoanK - As far as I know it was always the winner. Are you thinking about Ostracism? I don't know what they did in Rome apart from borrowing the chariot races from the Olympics. You probably know the story about Nero at the Olympic Games. Whenever he competed in any of the games he proclaimed himself winner even when he lost. It's not likely that anyone was going to argue with him.
I rather like the way www.bbc.co.uk tell the story:
Delaying only long enough to take care of a few loose ends such as murdering his mother, castrating his former favourite slave boy and crucifying a few fans who didn't applaud loudly enough at his last poetry recital, he packed his lyre and all his cosmetics and set out for Greece to attend and compete in the 67 AD Olympic Games. Here he not only won the chariot race despite falling out of his chariot, but he introduced several new events of a musical nature. The judges prudently declared him the winner of them all.
Flushed with success, he made the rounds of the Isthmian, Nemean, Pythian and Panathean Games and handsomely won numerous events at every one. During his performances nobody was allowed to leave, although a few people got round that by feigning death and being carried out. These games were not usually all held in the same year, but in 67 AD they made an exception for Nero because his offer was just too good to refuse.
He returned to Rome, a tired but happy Emperor, with 1800 prizes. Normally these would have been wreaths of laurel or bay that an athlete could take home to his wife for the stock pot, but so overwhelmed were his loyal subjects by Nero's talent that they made another exception and presented him with jewels and precious objects. Medals were not introduced till 1904 or Nero would have made Mark Spitz look pretty silly with his meagre seven. Amazingly, the Ancient Games survived the Nero episode and went on for another 326 years before being banned on religious grounds by the Emperor Theodosius in 393 AD.
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Roshanarose: Great story about Nero and the games. Since I began taking Ginny's Latin classes I've learned more about Rome and the Romans than I ever knew before -though I've read a good deal about them, for me they always came in second after the Greeks. I don't think I'm changing my mind there but I sure have a better appreciation of them now than I ever had before. And I know a little Latin too! :D
I've been meaning to get my hands on Grant's 'Ancient Historians' - when will I ever have time to read it?
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ROSE: that must have been what I was thinking of. I hope it was a unique occasion. I would have been one of those who feigned death in order to get out of there!
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Its nice to know you are missed! Again, I have read most of your knowledgeable comments concerning nonfiction books including the Greeks and the Romans. I don't always have time to comment but I do try to get here and read the posts.
After Tuesday at the city's Franklin Park Conservatory with my guy where we sauntered through the different exhibits of flowers, plants, parrots, butterflies plus all the Chihuly glass that the museum owns, we were sitting to rest in one of the indoor gardens and who should be standing out in the hall, talking with people around her but Jane Goodall! Wow, and I was privileged to meet her and shake her hand. What a sweet lady she is and I felt honored just to be in the same room with her.
Speaking of clearing away the detritus in our lives. About 9 yrs ago when we were scheduled to celebrate our 50th in Dec '02, I spent 6 months chronicling our lives together by making memory albums using mostly many photos, with comments, memorabilia and letters. After finishing those (there were 8 albums) I took myself down to the storage room and set up the slide projector and went through 50 yrs of slides throwing out the faded and bad ones. Then I put the slides in their little boxes that go with the projector and stored those in metal boxes that also came with the projector. That took several weeks, but I did it! Now, if one wants a family slide show which they could show on the clearest wall available, they can do that. I figure the families will see it once after we are gone and settled in our Eco friendly burial sites.
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Wow! annie! That sounds like it was a huge task, i'm impressed. We just need to set the goal and get ourselves started, don't we? What a satisfaction it must have been. ...... Jean
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Gumtree - It probably seems that I am terribly biassed re the Greeks and Romans, but this is not altogether true. The aspect of Roman History I most enjoy is that they have primary sources; unfortunately, Greek History doesn't. Although I guess you could regard Thucydides as a primary source, problem is I don't appreciate his style. Herodotus is a good read, often historically incorrect, but very entertaining. The only places I have any desire to visit in Italy are Sicily, Etruria and Florence. I can't see myself ever visiting Italy though, Greece is too close and too tempting.
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Annie, what a satisfying task that must have been. I don't think I could do that, I would get too upset. I thought it was just me being regularly weepy about how the children are all starting to leave home, but I met an old friend this week who was equally relieved that it wasn't just her. We have both been driven demented by our teenage sons, but the thought of them leaving (mine has now left, hers will go this summer) fills us with regret for all the years that have flown past.
Everyone on here apart from me seems to have so many rooms! In our last house (which was considered a reasonably large family home) we had no store room, basement, spare bedroom, conservatory, work room, utility room or garage. I think this is maybe the difference between US and UK housing? Our house was over 100 years old, and unless you were practically royalty, in those days (ie when it was built) you just didn't have so many things.
I am currently considering buying a virtually new-build house, which may not have all the things that American homes do, but does at least have a garage and a utility room. Even a study! I will be lost! Unfortunately husband is not yet persuaded (as house is in a village east of Edinburgh), but I am working on it...
Rosemary
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Rosemary: I often think the same about the US homes being large - I think it is the basement and the attic I most envy. We live in a comfortable family home and apart from the usual living areas and bedrooms we have a workroom (utility), a small storeroom, our study is something of a library, computer room and office combined, I have a studio where I pretend to be an artist and where I keep my craft materials, and DH has his garage and workshop - even so we are overcrowded with 'stuff' - every room has storage for books including the back verandah which is fully enclosed and a very useful space. Our front verandah is open and a great place to sit in the late afternoon and watch the birds. But how I sometimes wish for an attic and a basement!
Adoannie: congrats on your efforts at putting all those photos and mementos into order - anything of that kind is a huge undertaking and can be draining on one's emotions as well. Years ago I spent a long time just sorting photos into albums and labelling the images etc. I did my own collection and those that had been left by both my mother and DH's family - of course there were many photos among those that I couldn't identify but all in all we now have a representative collection of the extended family for four generations back and a few representing the fifth.
Added to that of course are the younger generations - children, g'children and g g'children - so as the years pass the work has added value (so to speak). My next task in that area is to get it all onto CDs --- one day!
Roshanarose: I'm sure we all have our preferences in all things. Like you, the Greeks do it for me but I've never tried to learn the language - At one time I did have an opportunity to do so but was so involved with other activity that I missed it. Too bad, but there it is. I agree with your take on Thucydides and Herodotus but then after reading Herodotus I always go back to Thucydides.
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Gumtree - how lovely to have a verandah, something I think I have always wanted since I read What Katy Did. They don't really exist in this country - or at least not in Scotland - the weather would just be too bad. Many people do have (enclosed) conservatories, but they vary a lot in attractiveness. There are firms in London that can build you amazing ones along the lines of the Orangery at Kew, but as you can imagine, they come with similarly amazing price tags :o
Rosemary
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We have rooms but unlike other areas of the country - no basements - here a basement is a place for snakes so even before builder's knew how to build on slabs they used a pier and beam construction that raised the house off the ground but no basement - and as far as attics go - with such a long summer the attic holds the heat with the best of insulation and turbines in the roof the temperature an attic easily reaches over 120 degrees [Celsius 48] and higher during May through October - Our summer daytime temps from usually June through September is over 100 [Celsius 38] with May and October in the high 90s.
In the Austin area starting after WWII houses have two car garages versus the one car separate garage in the back of the lot that often had more space for a tool shop as well as, a place to keep your vehicle from the weather. No houses built during the war so there was a marked change in floor plan after the War and we had the first family rooms in the late '40's early '50's - Families included several children and the parlor was considered inappropriate space for growing children so it was replaced by the formal dining and then the big combo kitchen/breakfast room/living area. -
Life was good in the '60s so houses grew in size - we had two living rooms- two dining one of them the breakfast room usually next to the kitchen and the separate family room/den, a separate laundry room and at least 2 full bathrooms as opposed to one full and one half bath in an average home for the average mid-income blue collar and young professional.
We only had a large pool of professionals whose income increased rapidly after the War who hit their stride in the mid to late 60s and that is when houses became for many still larger with game rooms and large pantries in addition to an office and a formal living and family room and two dining plus a breakfast bar and separate laundry and that 2 car garage with storage space in the garage - before WWII only 5% of this nation had a collage education - after the war the VA Bill of Rights changed all that and folks spent money on their homes.
I think for most of us on this site who live in town - [rural homes always had outbuildings] We townies have empty rooms because our children are grown - I know it took my years and years to actually realize my kids were not coming home late to slip into bed without disturbing me - I bet they were married 12 to 15 year with my grandboys filling their houses before I was conscious of how I was tense waiting each night for their safe return. Crazy, I know but true. Anyhow we have those empty rooms that one may be a guest room but the others are a computer room, an office, and another a craft rooms etc.
Another challenge I remember was rediscovering the man you married as a friend and not as the father of the children - most folks that I chat with say they had to get to know each other all over again. Looking back now it was really such a short amount of my life that I had the children to fill my life and yet they remain the focus of my life - However, for me it was never the same after they grew up and started their own households.
My son and daughter-in-law just faced the loss last year when all three boys decided to move back to Lubbock to attend school and my daughter and son-in-law are facing it now as their oldest is finishing up his second year at the Savannah School of Art and Design and the youngest has next year as his last year at home and then off to collage. He goes for 6 weeks this summer already since he was first pick in
western North Carolina for Governor's School which means he spends 6 weeks all expenses paid at Wake Forest this summer. Sure we are all proud but Katha is already getting teary eyed over the least little thing.
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Well Barb - tell her I empathise from this side of the Atlantic! My friend Claire and I were almost in tears in Starbucks this week, thinking about our babies leaving home ;D :'(
Rosemary
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Congratulations to your son on his selection, BARB. The summer program sounds really
exciting. A word of warning,...or promise...to you empty nesters. In my experience, at one
point or another, all my children returned for a while..some with family..during critical points in their lives. I was glad to have the room to offer them, and we got to know each other as
adults instead of simply parent/child.
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I guess I’m the “odd mom out” around here. I never had the first moment of “empty nest syndrome”. We had our children when we were very young, and they were very close together in age. As they left to go to college and start their adult lives, it gave us a chance to (as Barb said) get to know each other as friends and partners rather than Mom-and-Dad. And even to learn who WE were as individuals. We had 25 years with children and now 30 years without children. It’s all been great.
That's great for your grandson, Barb - all good schools. Our youngest grand is a senior at College of Charleston and is in the throes of application and choosing her law school.
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Wow! I had forgotten that feeling of empty nest until ya'al brought it to the fore. We actually moved to Atlanta before our senior in HS son had graduated from school in Ohio. I traveled back and forth all that year staying mostly in our old hometown. Had to do the many high school things that parents do when the seniors ask them. You know, attend the school play because your son ([part of the tech crew and the cast) is playing a dead body in "Arsenic and Old Lace". Of course, there's the march in with the school band onto the playing field during the first football game of the year. Lots of stuff like that.
Those were defininently the good old days for us.
Now its wave bye bye to the grans as they leave for home in NY and OR and the great grans too. Also, with the four here, its still sleepovers at our place, plus we attend all band concerts, musicals and awards nights and scouting events. And these are our grans who are attending the same schools as their parents did. We are truly enjoying having returned to Ohio.
Did I mention that we met Jane Goodall this week??
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Yes you did mention Jane Goodall, Annie. I take it you didn't realize she was in town. I just checked her itinerary. The closest lecture from me was at the Penn State's main campus two days ago. It looks like she has one more in Ohio and then a bunch in Canada.
http://www.janegoodall.org/?gclid=CJ-WmpOo7acCFUPf4Aod_20kcA
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Adoannie - Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey rate very highly on my list of most admired. Yesterday afternoon there was a documentary narrated by David Attenborough about a tiger family in India. Mum and four cubs. Tigers are the sort of animals that I always want to cuddle and spoil, they are just so beautiful. Their markings, their eyes and the way they play when cubs is just the way kittens play. The way they move and climb, such sensuous elegance. My cat would look like that if she didn't have such a fat, furry tummy.
Actually there is another Jane Goodall who is a writer. I hope I haven't mixed them up ???
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I envy you your great-grans, ANNIE. My grands show no sign whatsoever of even planning
to produce some. :-\
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Roshanarose,
It was the true Jane Goodall, the animal lady that we all admire so much. She is an amazing person and Babi knows way more about her than I do.
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You must be thinking of someone else, ANNIE. I know only the vaguest facts about Jane
Goodall, the sort of thing anyone might know.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
You are right, Babi! I meant JoanK. Sorry about that!
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Good morning, I don't get here often, but thought you might find these lists interesting.
From Shelf Talk by the Seattle Public Library -- “If you could suggest one book to someone who thinks nonfiction is boring, what would it be?” we asked our readers. What a surprise in the answers. Even a non non-fiction reader like me found several I’ve read and several more to go on my list.
Non-fiction 1 (http://seattle.bibliocommons.com/list/show/72450558__seattle_librarians/83341589_seattle_picks_your_favorite_nonfiction_pt_1)
Non-fiction 2 (http://seattle.bibliocommons.com/list/show/72450558__seattle_librarians/83343579_seattle_picks_your_favorite_nonfiction_pt_2)
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Pedln : So many good suggestions on books to read. Thanks. Ευχαριστώ παρά πολύ.
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Wonderful list, Pedlin, I've read many of them. I think of all of those the best, the very best, is Beryl Markham's book WEST WITH THE NIGHT, written long ago. Truly beautiful writing. Ernest Hemingway stated that she put him to shame as a writer.
WE've discussed several of those here in the past. I'll list them:
Devil in the White City
Zeitoun
Into Thin Air
Unadaunted Courage
Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
UNBROKEN is recent, great book. They are all good books. RIVER OF DOUBT is very good as is Henrietta Lacks, a recent book.
Years ago I read Malcolm X, think I'll re-read it.
My library sends designated books to a person who signs up for a particular genre; they do this each month. So, I get the latest NYT's nonfiction. How Libraries have changed in the last 20 years!
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There's a new Malcom X book coming out. The author just died before it could be published.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/books/malcolm-x-biographer-dies-on-eve-of-publication-of-redefining-work.html?_r=1.
I taught the first session of the women's history seminar today. The books on the bibliography and the website i used for todays' content are:
A History of Women in Americaby Carol Hymowitz and Michaele Weissman. A well- written, easy to read survey of women in America;
Ladies of Liberty: Women Who Shaped Our Nation and Founding Mothers both
by Cokie Roberts.
Great reading. I used the section about Deborah Franklin, poor woman, Ben got all the press,
Deborah kept their businesses going. The discussion that was here on SL, or on Seniornet, is in the archives. .... Jean
Webography: www.njwomenshistory.org/index.htm
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How exciting, JEAN. I hope you and your 'students' have a great time.
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Most of us enjoyed last year’s film about Julia Child, Julie and Julia, with all its insight into Julia Child’s early cooking experience in France. Was there a book of the same title? I don’t remember.
Now there is a new book about Julia and Paul Child and their life before the days in Paris. A Covert Affair: Julia Child and Paul Child in the OSS. At age 32 Julia McWilliams had no job and had never been out of the USA. At 6’ 2” she was rejected by the WACs as being “too long,” but she ended up in Ceylon working for the OSS (the forerunner of the CIA). And there she met Paul Child.
The author, Jennet Conant, is the granddaughter of former Harvard president James Conant, and is married to 60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft. She’s described as “more a storyteller and journalist than a proper historian.” The book describes their early years together and also the period in the 1950’s when they were caught up in the McCarthy investigations. It sounds like a winner, and here’s the link to the USA Today review.
A Covert Affair (http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2011-04-05-conant05_CV_N.htm?csp=YahooModule_Life)
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"Julie and Julia" was originally a book, PEDLN, and I didn't like it. The author..the Julie...came
across to me as very self-centered. I found myself most annoyed by her attitudes.
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Pedlin, I didn't know Conant was married to Steve Kroft. She, Conant, wrote two books about the history of the atomic bomb - one I recently listened to (an audio book) was about Robert Oppenheimer. Although I had read about him before, he was a fascinating scientist and the whole bunch of them at Los Alamos is an amazing story in American history. This book was more personal than other material I had read about him.
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Two books I have on reserve at my Library - Judi Dench's Memoir and The Social Animal by David Brooks. It's been awhile since I have read a good nonfiction book, so I am hoping I have found at least one.
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I love to find old obscure non-fiction books that no one know existed. I used to haunt used bookstores for this, but with limited mobility, it's hard. Now I use my kindle! I choose BROWSE, NON-FICTION, one of a dozen categories, and flip a lot of pages to get past the popular ones.
Some I've enjoyed : "Talking Dirty Yiddish" (written by a Rabbi), a book on the war tactics of the early Vikings, memories of traveling on the first transcontinental Australian railroad, a book of funny stories about the chemical periodic table, one on the search for the deepest cave, a book of fairy tales with a forward by Theodore Roosevelt, the speech Thoreau made in defense of John Brown, the autobiography of the real slave that "Uncle Tom" in Uncle Tom's Cabin was based on, etc.
You can get free samples, and see if the author is interesting without paying anything. Most of them are very cheap anyway (I wonder why?).
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If you want obscure, don't forget to look at Project Gutenberg's stuff JoanK. They have versions for most of the e-books. I download my selections to the computer and then copy them into the book folder on my Kindle. The only thing I don't see on PG anymore are pdf forms of the books. Some come in audio book form, though. I have an old knitting book on my Kindle now and have just downloaded several volumes about Native American life by Charles Alexander Eastman (aka: Ohiyesa). Unfortunately, Gutenberg does not have his autobiography listed. I think you will find his bio interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Eastman
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Ella - David Brooks is going to be on Booktv this weekend. I don't have the time in front of me but if you google booktv yoy can get the schedule. You probably know that already. :)
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FRY: WOW, you sent me on quite a journey. thank you.
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Frybabe - that's an interesting story. I liked the way they said "he was the first NA to receive a European-style medical degree", or something similar. Wefrequently read that Elizabeth Blackwell was the first woman doctor in the U.S. Well, of course, women had been "doctoring" for centuries, many of them very effectively and as a professional livlihood. Not having a degree from a European- style, male-controlled, medical school degree didn't inhibit them. I have read opinions that many of those women, concerned about alleviating symptoms, did a better job for their patients then licensed male doctors of the 19th and early 20th centuries, who were more concerned w/ expounding learned - tho often wrong - theories abt the origins of diesase.
As we learn more and more abt women in history we find over and over again that women had a hand in many accomplishments, especially wives, who were invisible and never got any credit for sharing in their husband's accomplishments. This was good reporting by the wiki-writer. ...... Jean
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Information for those who participated in - or lurked in - the Book Discussion on "Empire of The Summer Moon.."
The book has received the 2011 Nonfiction Award from The Oklahoma Center For The Book (a state affiliate of the Center for the Book in the Library of Congress). "The awards recognize books written the previous year by Oklahomans or about Oklahoma". Although the author is a Texan writing in Austin, "Empire of the Summer Moon..." qualifies as one of the latter.
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That's nice to hear, Callie. It is a most interesting book on the subject, well written and deserving of every prize it gets. And it's a pleasure to remember the discussion we had.
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Jean - Very true about women being the real healers in those days. I remember reading somewhere that many of those women healers were accused of witchcraft, both in Europe and the US, because the male doctors were losing business, or at least having their treatments undermined, quite frequently by women healers using natural means.
I would like to read others' comments on this.
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Roshanarose - I don't know about then, but we used to have a lovely little cottage hospital - one half was for geriatric respite care and the other half for maternity. The nurses and midwives ran the maternity unit and only called in a doctor if they felt it necessary. Every woman I know loved that hospital - the midwives were very experienced, lovely people. The people in the geriatric unit loved seeing the new babies. The building was in a beautiful garden, very quiet. The food was cooked on the premises, and included home made cakes every afternoon. It was also very convenient for families to visit - much better than trailing 25 miles into the city hospital.
The senior partner of the local GP practice was a huge supporter of the hospital. he had been there for many years and was the doctor for the mountain rescue service as well. He actually came into the hospital and delivered my son when he (the baby that is) was "stuck".
BUT the senior partner eventually retired. The rest of the GPs in the practice did not support the maternity unit at all - they seemed unable to cope with what they perceived as the "risks" that they might be called in to deal with. They wanted every woman to have a high-tech birth in the city hospital, "just in case". I should add that all women who wanted to deliver in the unit were carefully assessed beforehand - one of my friends was unable to have her baby there because of some complications in pregnancy, for example - but another great thing about the hospital was that if you did have your baby in the city hospital, you were able to leave after 24 hours and go back to the unit, and there spend a week being cossetted by the lovely staff - particularly important, I think, for new mothers. The staff there had the time to help you with breastfeeding, show you what to do, etc.
The local health authority also - of course - wanted to close the unit, as presumably it is cheaper for every woman to deliver in one place. In the end - and despite a vigorous campaign of which I was a part - the authority and the GPs won; it was a sad day.
I had to have my daughters in the city hospital. It was huge, noisy, too busy, impersonal and generally the compete antithesis of the country unit - even though I have to say at once that the midwives were still extremely nice people - but you never saw the same one for more than a couple of hours. You got no sleep and went home feeling terrible.
I see this as an inexcusable disempowerment of women - the staff and the mothers. The staff were made to feel that no-one trusted them to do their jobs, the mothers were made to feel that their choice was not only irrelevant but downright reckless.
Rosemary
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ROSEMARY, your cottage hospital sounds lovely, ..but I can't imagine a week of post-natal
hospital care. My experience was that if mother and child are doing well, ship 'em home
the second day!
While I don't like the doctor's attitudes, I can understand them. In these days of eager,
money-seeking litigation, everyone has become very cautious about exposing themselves to
any risk.
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I wonder if I could ask a favor. Our community just completed a "community read" of Stones into Schools. It was extremely successful for a first time of such a program, and it was an intergenerational project. Even the schools and a group of homeschoolers participated. We were fortunate to have a family from the Afghan/Pakistani border area who joined the group.
So now we are looking toward a second project, for next winter. One topic that was brought up was the Civil War, because we are just beginning the 150th "anniversary" of this event. However, there is a wealth of material, and a wealth of fiction as well. Do any of you have a particular book with some aspect of the Civil War that you think could be read by a number of people for a good discussion, one that could lead to there being related books that would fit in with younger readers as well? We're also hoping to partner with the historical society and with geneaolgy groups, and of course, we're considering Wisconsin's role in the war. No battlefields here, but lots of soldiers. Anyway, I'm just looking for some books to consider, to give a start to this.
Thanks.
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nlhome - You might be interested in reading the following book as background discussion information. The book is not sufficiently available in hard cover for a large number of people to access at the same time but I found it very interesting. It's supposed to be available online but this morning I couldn't get it to come up. Mary
Wisconsin Women in the War Between the States
Ethel Alice Hurn collected and classified the work done by Wisconsin women during the Civil War both at the military front and at home. Using information found in correspondence, reminiscences, pamphlets, newspapers, and interviews with survivors, Hurn reconstructs the activities and lives of Wisconsin's women.
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CubFan, was this the site you were trying to access? http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/search.asp?id=94 I was able to get in a few minutes ago. I like the frontispiece photo. Too bad Project Gutenberg doesn't have it, or anything by that author. I checked.
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Yes, Frybabe.
This morning the site came up but when I clicked on the document link it wouldn't load. It's working fine for me now too. It is a fascinating book about all the things that the women were doing locally. I also found it interesting which locales were most active then. In some cases they are the same ones that can be counted on in this day & age.
Mary
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Rosemary - I am not all that surprised about the male doctors' attitude towards maternity, and it doesn't have anything to do with malpractice. Unfortunately, witchhunts continue, only by different means.
I was really shocked to see on local TV one episode where the Opposition were sprouting their stuff: our PM is a woman, and someone with a placard right in front of the screen, depicted her as a witch bitch. When will they ever learn, I wonder? What really bugs me though is when their wives and womenfolk join in just because their husbands say so. Who needs enemies? Grrrrrrrr......
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I read a bit on the site. Very interesting, but more as background information and setting.
A friend was rehabbing an old house in a town in the western part of the state. There was a picture of the house in better times, dating back to the Civil War - the lawn was used as a staging area for troops to gather to get ready to leave. I was standing in the window overlooking that staging area - I imagine that the scene was similar to some described in the first pages of that book.
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Just picked up an interesting book.. Memoir.. It is written by a woman who is the daughter of a mixed relationship. Her Mother was white, her father a black jazz musician. She was born in 1954, so prior to the more relaxed codes now.. From the pictures in the book, she turned out much more negro than caucasian. Her Mother farmed her out to a black family that were friends of hers. She visited her Mother, but was taught to call her Aunt. Her Mother married Larry Storch and so June ( the girl) visited them and was called an adopted daughter by Larry.. Still she lived in the black community. The book is about how divided she felt in life. I really am enjoying it.
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Interesting post, Rosemary, about the small cottage hospital. Sounds so nice. Too bad when they had to go to the city hospital.
My mom used to say the only time she got a nice vacation was when one of us kids were born (four of us). Back then (1930s) they kept new mothers in the hospital for a whole week.
Marj
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FRY: I'm having a great time reading Charles Alexander Eastman's "Indian Boyhood", the story of his childhood among the Souix. I shared some of the stories with my 12-year-old grandson, and he was fascinated.
From now on my motto is "be like the gray wolf; look twice at everything you see."
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I'm glad you like it JoanK. I am finding a lot to like in these old books posted on Project Gutenberg. Right now I am reading a SciFi short story I downloaded from there.
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Don't leave me hanging, Frybabe, which short story?
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The Memory of Mars by Raymond F. Jones. The ending was a surprise. This short story was originally published in the Amazing Stories magazine in 1961 (I think I remembered that right).
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I love free book on the IPAD, but I have no idea why they are convinced that everyone wants the same free books that they download when I loaded the apps..
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Since Greg Mortenson's book 'Stones into Schools' and his other one 'Three cups of Tea' have been mentioned here and discussed, you might be interested in a segment on 'Sixty Minutes' on the author.
I have not read either book, but I do look into the 'non-fiction' forum occasionally to read. Here is a link to the video of the 'Sixty Minutes' piece. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on 'Play CBS video'.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/greg-mortenson-60-minutes_n_850319.html?ir=Books
Emily
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Thanks Emily. I missed that part.
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A few nights ago, I watched the Chris Matthews show. He interviewed an author, who wrote: "Tangaled Webs: How False Statements are Undermining America: from Martha Stewart to Bernie Madoff". It includes a segment about Dick Cheny and Scooter Liddy. I found the interview fascinating. So, I ordered the book, for my Kindle.
The first chapteris about Martha Stewart, and the charges about her perjury. I do not want to put the book down. I rthink this book would make an interesting discussion.
Sheila
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The DL's are looking for more nominations for books discussions, SHEILA. Check the index
for 'Upcoming and Proposed' book discussions and make your recommendation. Of course,
since it's a non-fiction book, Ella and Harold might be interested in it for a discussion here.
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I'm reading a book about Toni Stone, the first woman who played baseball in the Negro League. The writing is too dry and the subject too limited to make a good discussion book, but as a baseball fan, I am very interested.
She had to deal with prejudice against her as a woman on a man's team, as well as against her and her team as Blacks in an era just as baseball was becoming integrated. But she does not complain. the author has to dig up stories from others to tell what she went through. Once, she beat a teammate at a game of fancy namecalling, and her was so mad at being beat by a girl that he made the team too uncomfortable for her and she left.
I don't know what to make of this: the first manager who gave her a chance as an adult was a white manager of an all-white team (except for her) who was a member of the Klu Klux Clan!
Later she played with Willie Mays and replaced hank Aaron when he went to the major league (he admired her skill).
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JoanK - I may not read the book about Toni Stone as I know zip about baseball, but I enjoyed reading your description of her. We need more women like her - very gutsy.
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One subject that might get me out of my long history/biography rut might a good definitive account of the Bernie Madoff fraud. I won't be ready for another discussion until August at the earliest, but what are your thoughts about this?
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Hi, HAROLD. I think that I am reading just the book. It is called "Tangeled Web". It is about many of the well known people who have commited fraud. Including: Bernie Madoff, Martha Steward, and Scooter Libby. I am finding it interesting.
Of course you may be interested only in biographies about Madoff. I am fascinated by all of the information, and details of how celebrities think that they can get away with perjury. One of the points that this author makes is that truth telling is one of the primary foundations unpon which our judicial system depends. He makes a point that the multitude of examples of high level perjury is eroding our system of justice.
Sheila
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While having my tea this morning, cat on lap and not wanting to disturb same to get the one of the books already started, I picked up Martin Gardner's The Night is Large which is a collection of essays dating from 1938 to 1995. As I read the opening intro to Part 1, I discovered that Mr. Gardner was not a mathematician as I supposed. He was a writer with a degree in philosophy. Yes, I know mathematics actually began in ancient philosophy. I just always assumed he was a mathematician because I used to do some of his mathematical puzzles and avidly read his columns in Scientific American.
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Oh Dear, I looked up Languedoc, France and the Cathars while reading a detective fiction. My mistake. Now I have several more books on my list to buy/read. It appears that modern historians (general consensus?) are taking the view that the Cathars were actually closer to early Christian beliefs than the Catholic Church at the time. They were gaining in popularity and, of course, the Catholic Church could not have that. The French king(s) eventually took over the crusade (Albigensian). Interesting website about the Cathars, below, has a link to a book list including one by Zoe Oldenburg and a translated 13th century poem which tells of key events before, during and after the Albigensian Crusade.
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Frybabe - Looking for that link ;)
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I regretfully observe that once the Church gained a position of power and
influence, it was more invested in preserving that than their early Christian
beliefs. And, of course, knocking down any potential rivals and critics.
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Roshanarose, your wish is my command. I bookmarked it for further "study". Near the bottom of the page is a link to recommended books, and below that more links to further info. The article itself has many hyperlinks you can click on too. Nice site.
http://www.cathar.info/
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I think we have to put some of this church stuff in context - we forget that the church and the seat of government of many of these offending nations were one and the same - closer than as if the church was Secretary of State or Attorney General - more like co-King -
As today if a group threatens our government we watch and jail them just like - during the Viet Nam protests in May 1971, 1,146 people were arrested on the Capitol grounds trying to shut down Congress. This brought the total arrested during the protest to over 12,000.
Abbie Hoffman was arrested on charges of interstate travel to incite a riot and assaulting a police officer.
166 people, many of them seminarians, were arrested in Harrisburg, PA for encircling the Federal Courthouse with a chain, to protest the trial of the Harrisburg Seven
Others were jailed.
Recently various Muslims who have shown they were attempting to bring harm to the American people - granted we are one of the few nations that if you speak against the nation or leaders in the government that is not a crime -
Those like the Cathars were not just about promoting a religious viewpoint - they were in conflict with the official legal Religion just as if Christians or Muslims today tried to influence the citizens to ignore the laws of Israel by promoting their religions in a nation with a constitution that has a state religion. The offense is not just a religious offense - it is a national offense.
I am not trying to justify the reaction by the Church only putting it in context we too easily loose context that the church is two - the religious practices and the government that comes about in any large organized group of people that includes laws called canons in the RC church. Look at the art work and you see next to most Kings is a member of the clergy as part of the governing body - even England after the Reformation had clergy helping to run the show and the law of the land included a state religion that included the rules within that state religion and anyone braking those rules was an enemy of the state.
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Good points, Barbara
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Barb - Intelligent observation there.
Frybabe - I know you enjoy little bits of Greek trivia (well I hope you do :o) so here goes. The word Cathar probably comes from the Greek word katharo which mean "I clean/or cleanse". It can also mean "to purify" and I think the name Katherine comes from the same source.
Haven't looked at the link yet, but intend to give it my full attention soon. Thanks!
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here is a good link about the origination of the Cathar's
http://www.cathar.info/1204_origins.htm
This is another good link that explains the various views of Jesus - for over 1400 years there was a major problem and discussion with many attempts to nail down if Jesus was man or God or both - there are major shifts of belief if Jesus was God - then his crucifixion has little meaning - and if he was man he was only a prophet - it was not till 1560 something at the Council of Trent that the RC Church puts this issue into canon law -
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/heresies.html
There were many attempts through out the earlier 1400 year history that not only condemned certain bibles and groups because of their view that Jesus was either God or Man but not both and this major contradiction in viewpoint was instrumental in breaking apart the 5 original bishopries so that in the eleventh century we have the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman bishopry.
The original five being, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Damascus and Rome - Jerusalem was about destroyed leaving only Rome who believed in Jesus as the son of God doctrine.
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FRY: Another Martin Gardner fan!! I used to love his puzzles! The Night is Large isn't available on Kindle, but I found a used one for $5 plus shipping. Also ordered a book of his mathematical puzzles. You have a great way of suggesting good books!
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Thanks, Joan.
In seventh grade, I was the only girl in the Mathematics Club. It almost frightens me how poorly I did this last semester in accounting. Bs and Cs, but I used to be an A, A+ student. Oh, it is even worse than that. To me A was and always will be 93-100, etc., not this 90-100 business grading they have now. So they dummied down the grading and it still didn't help. The formulas just do not want to stick with me anymore. Huge comedown. Not good for my ego at all. :'(
That's what I get for not keeping up with math puzzles. ;)
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My condolences, Frybabe, regarding your bruised ego. :) These tests, as the years go by, become a real catharsis. I refuse all examinations now. I'm resting on my laurels of long ago. But, alas, even they are beginning to look a little wilted and woebegone.
The Zoe Oldenburg book is a great piece of medieval history. I read it long ago. I'm assuming it's Massacre At Montsegur. It was the time of great Crusades, and the Albigensians fell victim to one. The Church was practically all-powerful, and rich. Just now I'm into a history of the Borgias. For them the Church was a cake which they divided amongst themselves.
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Thanks Jonathan. Yes, you made the correct assumption.
I am a fair way into my 1904 book about Lucretia. So far it has been something of a who's who and a relating of events surrounding L. My author is sticking pretty much to documents such as registered marriages, legal documents, personal and official letters, and other such documents supposedly authentic. There isn't a whole lot specific to L just yet. I am already getting the impression, though, that Caesar was a real piece of work. I don't know if he was particularly cunning or a bully of sorts, but early on he seems to have a lot of people eating out of his hand so to speak.
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Jonathan - You wrote "My condolences, Frybabe, regarding your bruised ego. These tests, as the years go by, become a real catharsis. I refuse all examinations now. I'm resting on my laurels of long ago. But, alas, even they are beginning to look a little wilted and woebegone."
Catharsis is also derived from katharo in Greek. κάθαρω. Sorry - sometimes I just can't help it. My brain is permanently wired to Greek :o
Barb - Interesting links.
Frybabe - I wonder if your grading system is similar to our university grading system? 7 is the highest grade you can get. So if someone has a 6.5 GPA (Grade Point Average) it doesn't sound as impressive as it actually is. One of my Greek teachers had a 7 GPA, for which she was awarded A University Medal, the highest accolade that can be given to an undergraduate.
At one stage in Australian economic history when the unemployment rate was 11%, candidates for jobs were employed according to their GPA's. In the toilet at Uni I remember that written above the toilet roll dispenser some wag had written, "BAs - Please take one". Absolutely everyone had a BA, (Bachelor of Arts) from shop assistants to cleaners. And many PhDs were driving taxis. Many still do. That "lowly" BA was expected as a basis for getting a job - crazy isn't it? Now I think years of experience in one particular syllabus is preferred. Depends a lot on the State, I think. I don't think that there is a preference for a particular Uni education, unless the interview panel are all from the same alma mater . Also the idea of Ivy League doesn't exist here. When I went to Uni it didn't cost me a cent, as a beneficent Prime Minister had introduced free tertiary education, but my post graduate did cost. The government had decided by then, with a different PM, that there was money to be made in Higher Education. Thus the "ideal" education of equal opportunity for everyone disappeared, and one had to either have a scholarship, be working, have wealthy parents or be paying off their HECS debt for years after they finished Uni. What system do you have there, and does it vary from state to state, university to university?
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"...they were in conflict with the official legal Religion .."
And right there, BARB, in the phrase 'official legal religion', is the
reason for our mandate against Congress making any law effecting the
establishment of religion. It not only would deny individual rights of
conscience, it tends to corrupt the religion as well. A church's 'governing
body' should have authority only over it's own, voluntary, members.
The true purpose of a church, in my view, is and should be the gathering
of people of like beliefs for worship, praise, instruction, fellowship and mutual
support. That is the 'church' I love and honor, and have sadly missed since I
can no longer hear. Thankfully, I found a preacher I like,...Ed Young... on Sunday
morning TV, complete with closed caps!!
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Erik Larson's new book - IN THE GARDEN OF BEASTS - grabs your attention early. It was a good read. FDR appointed a history professor from the University of Chicago to be the American Ambassador to Germany in the year 1933; his only qualification was that he spoke German and had spent two of his early years there as a student; no one else wanted the job. It was a poor fit. A horrible time. Hindenberg was President but soon died and left Hitler in charge and did he take charge! The history of the conflicts within the country, the government, the military units was interesting; however, I wouldn't want to discuss another book about that period in history. We have done quite a few of them.
As some of you may remember we discussed Larson's DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY some years ago pertaining to the Columbian Exposition in Chicago 1893.
Have we ever discussed the Civil War in the USA or it's aftermath, the reconstruction efforts - such as they were? Any suggestions?
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Roshanarose, our GPA points only go up to 4. Individual tests are marked into percentages, which translate into letter grades for the final course score, A is 90-100, B is 80-89, etc. I forget how they come up with the GPA for the overall cumulative grade.
College has always been a pay your own way thing here. However, there are plenty of private and governmental grants and scholarships for those who apply and qualify. Some of these students end up not paying anything or almost nothing. I, for example, have been approved for a Workforce Investment Act grant which is paying for my tuition and books up to $4,000. This grant is specifically for retraining aging workers. I must apply for a Federal Financial Aid grant (doesn't matter if I am eligible for any Federal aid or not, I still have to file an application), must maintain at least a C grade for each class, and the program must be in one of the "high priority" fields. High priority means a job category that the government deems as needing more skilled workers such as accounting, nursing and several other of the healthcare related industries, office administration, and diesel mechanics. There are more categories, but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
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One book I've had on my TBR list about the Civil War is THE REPUBLIC OF SUFFERING; DEATH AND THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR by Drew Gilpin Faust.
Per Publisher's Weekly review, "Historian Faust (Mothers of Invention) notes that the Civil War introduced America to death on an unprecedented scale and of an unnatural kind—grisly, random and often ending in an unmarked grave far from home. She surveys the many ways the Civil War generation coped with the trauma: the concept of the Good Death—conscious, composed and at peace with God; the rise of the embalming industry; the sad attempts of the bereaved to get confirmation of a soldier's death, sometimes years after war's end; the swelling national movement to recover soldiers' remains and give them decent burials; the intellectual quest to find meaning—or its absence—in the war's carnage. In the process, she contends, the nation invented the modern culture of reverence for military death and used the fallen to elaborate its new concern for individual rights. Faust exhumes a wealth of material—condolence letters, funeral sermons, ads for mourning dresses, poems and stories from Civil War–era writers—to flesh out her lucid account. The result is an insightful, often moving portrait of a people torn by grief.
The author is the current president of Harvard University.
Marj
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ELLA, I just ordered "In The Garden Of The Beasts", for my Kindle. I look forward to reading it. The period from the first world war, until the end of world war two, fascinates me. WWII had the greatest impact on me, and on my life, than any other period. I first read about this book in a magazine, and knew I wanted to read it.
Sheila
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Frybabe - Thanks for that information. We have a similar system to yours in that vocational training is, and has been for some time now the "go". Unfortunately, as far as I know, there are no scholarships awarded for them. The government usually sponsors a fair amount of money on these vocational courses. I have taught a couple of these. The all-women classes were fine; the mixed gender classes are often not so good to teach. Being adults, men and women either hate each other; or love each other and gang up on other students and sometimes teachers. Many of them, I hate to say, don't want jobs but the government may require them to work for the "dole" (unemployment benefits) so this causes some resentment. If I think back I can remember about three people who made it quite clear that they were sick of doing "useless" classes and intended to fleece the government as much as they could. Trying to teach these individuals is by no means a pleasant task and gives the word "teaching" a whole new meaning.
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There's nothing worse than teaching people who don't want to learn and nothing better than teaching people who do.
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JoanK - Absolutely spot on mate!
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The only teaching I've done is in Sunday School, and I couldn't agree more.
Amazing the difference between teaching kids who don't really want to be there
and adults who do!
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Ella, regarding previous discussion of Civil War titles, we certainly did one. It was the Jay Winik book, April 1865. It was in the summer of 2002. Discussions leaders were Ella and Harold.
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Ran across this website while looking for something else. It may have been posted before some time ago, but I'll post it again. http://www.biographyonline.net/people/women-who-changed-world.html
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Frybabe - Not for the first time I am proud to be a woman. Fantastic link. Thank You.
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Frybabe; thanks for the biography link, but, as you know, the author makes such a difference in a book so one can't depend upon a title at all, NOT AT ALL! We can't have a David McCullough or a Doris Kearns Goodwin often, but when we do we know we will be reading a good one.
Browsing in a book store or the library is the best way to pick a good biography and, alas, book stores are dwindling due to Kindles, Nooks, and the like. Libraries have changed. In mine, I see empty shelves! Never before have I seen an empty shelf and I'm hoping they are just shifting books around from our main library downtown.
I spent a few lovely hours reading MEMORIES OF THE GREAT AND THE GOOD by Alistair Cooke. I hope someone besides myself remember him? He is British, a journalist, a foreign correspondent, a radio talk host on the BBC. His essary of people range from George Bernard Shw to Frank Lloyd Wright to General Marshall to President Reagan to Erma Bombeck to Gary Cooper. Most familiar to me, many known personally to Mr. Cooke.
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Frybabe, thanks so much for that link to biographies (there are men on there, also, Roshanarose, if you click on biographies at the top.)
But that is such a small part of a good book - the title. NOW THE AUTHOR, that is where the treasure lies, as you know.
We can't have a David McCullough or a Doris Kearns Goodwin book often can we. They take time to write, reseach.
I just finished an excellent book by Alistair Cooke (MEMORIES OF THE GREAT AND THE GOOD). Perhaps many of you remember him as I do somehow; possibly from his writing. He is British, a radio talk show host, a journalist, a foreign coorespondenet and author.
His short essays range from George Bernard Shaw, to Duke Ellington, to Ronald Reagin, Erma Bombeck, Gary Cooper, Genral George C. Marshall, Harold Ross, etc.
I spent a few lovely hours reading it. Good book.
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Ella, I wasn't paying attention to the book, just the list and their short bios. I do question some of the author's picks though, especially when it comes to actresses. Some of the picks certainly did transform themselves and are an inspiration to some degree, but change the world?
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Interesting list and a good one to start learning or talking about women in history........However, Susan B. Anthony, but not Elizabeth Cady Stanton? - can't hardly talk about one w/out the other.......Jane Goodall, but not Rachael Carson?.......Marilyn Monroe, but not May West, who not only acted, but wrote and directed and was a phenomenal businesswoman and smartly managed her own career, or Mary Pickford, who was a partner in starting United Artists?
But i guess everyone's list of fifty would be different.
Allistar Cooke did a wonderful series on American History for PBS that i used for years in my college classes.
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OH, DEAR! I see I posted twice, I thought I had lost the first post.
I would delete but can't see the delete button. Please, disregard.
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Re The Women - Frybabe said that some were able to transform themselves. Any woman (or man) who can rise above obscurity, and often poverty, to be regarded as a world Icon, is an inspiration to me. Some of the women changed the world, some didn't. But, think on this, although it may sound superficial, the women who are "famous" worldwide may not necessarily be great authors, or even have written a book, but their influence in other fields may have been considerable. I am still proud, and I didn't read about which books they had or had not written. Entirely subjective though, just as Mabel writes.
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Just took a further look at Frybabe's'link. For interest people should also take a look at 100 People who changed the World. Jesus Christ comes first (no surprises there); and Adolf Hitler ninth. The list has a distinct US bias, regarding US Presidents in the higher ranks, but I can deal with that :). Of the 100 there are 18 women. The highest ranking being Joan of Arc as number 22 and at number 60 Margaret Thatcher. These two feisty ladies both rose from obscurity to become forces to be reckoned with.
There are also other "lists" of interest. Well spotted Frybabe ;D
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Alas, ELLA, I'm afraid not. My library has more and more empty shelf space and it's a sad thing to see. Well, these 'tight' times have come and gone before. Hopefully this one won't stay too much longer.
I like the idea of a book about 'great and good' people. It would be so pleasant to read about them instead of hearing only about the crooks and villains.
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Ella a consideration that could be a look at the forgotten in our history whose story would appeal to both men and women - Revolutionary Founders; Rebels, Radicals, and Reformers in the Making of the Nation (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/books/review/book-review-revolutionary-founders-rebels-radicals-and-reformers-in-the-making-of-the-nation.html?ref=books)
Another fascinating period in history is the mid and late 1800s and early 1900s when the many Department stores were established and the giants who opened the world to us in the fantasy lands they created in the Department stores. I would love to make the connection between what they did and not only the shopping centers of today but the many magazines. -
And one more that I thought would be riveting - Grace Wyndham Goldie, First Lady of Television - I think this would be found in a library easier than on the NYTimes Best Seller shelf of the local bookstore.
Just my two cents... ;)
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BARB, your suggestion is a good one, but they are essays, which I think is personal reading and not for discussion within a group. Maybe I'm wrong? I don't know. We have nevar, to my knowledge, done a book of essays.
If we were to discuss one, the book, THE GREAT AND THE GOOD, would be excellent. The two adjectives do not denote the same people; some can be great without being good, of course.
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Ella, your suggestion, THE GREAT AND THE GOOD, does sound interesting. And so does Barb's, REBELS, RADICALS, AND REFORMERS. Choosing one would probably depend on one's politics.
As soon as I saw the name Alistair Cooke, I immediately thought of another book by him that I would like to suggest. And then I remembered that it was another Alistair that I was thinking of. Also a Britisher. Alistair Horne. The book I have in mind is: KISSINGER, 1973, THE CRUCIAL YEAR. I'm halfway through it.
Another book I'm enjoying is Barbara Goldsmith's OTHER POWERS, THE AGE OF SUFFRAGE, SPIRITUALISM, AND THE SCANDALOUS VICTORIA WOODHULL. The other powers (occult, of course) included those Vanderbilt consulted to make his fortune, and many bereaved by the Civil War consulted to communicate with their dead fathers, husbands and brothers. Plenty of other stuff to justify 'THE AGE OF'.
How about something on an earlier event in the 19th century? Something like Walter R. Borneman's: 1812, THE WAR THAT FORGED A NATION? There must be other books coming out to mark the 200th anniversary.
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Good ideas, JONATHAN! I'm the only nonfiction reader in my condo book group so I am always looking for something that would appeal to that group also; as well as our nonfiction readers here. I'm off to my library to see those books you mentioned; one innovation of my library is that they now give a condensation of the book online and occasionally an excerpt. They are modernizing all the time, but the problem with progress is it eliminates the familiar, the old, not always progress.
I was browing through Alistair Cooke lovely book titled AMERICA -paintings and photographs beyond the ordinary - and he acknowledged this at the end of his book. An example - the building of Hoover Dam during the depression, an extraordinary feat, giving hundreds jobs and doing what FDR hoped to do - beautify America. As a result, America got Las Vegas, the elimination of thousands of desert acres,- blooming acres - littered with cities - leaving America, once a country with boundless space, littered with cities and people. It, according to Cooke, is becomeing overpopulated, polluted and destroying nature.
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JONATHAN, I don't know how librarians decide what to buy; but I found it interesting that my metro library bought 15 copies of the 1812 book (and also provided an excerpt), but only 2 of the Kissinger book. I'll get both, my branch has the 1812 one so I'll pick it up tomorrow. Here is the first paragraph of the excerpt and it looks very interesting. When was it we discussed the Aaron Burr book? I'll look it up in the Archives. But he is mentioned here:
"In the early twilight, the swollen waters of the Ohio River swept a wooden flatboat up to a landing on a small, tree-covered island. On the river's east bank lay the western reaches of the state of Virginia; on the west, the shores of the state of Ohio, now, in the spring of 1805, barely two years old. The flatboat was much grander than the normal river craft that floated by or landed here. Indeed, its owner had commissioned its recent construction in Pittsburgh, and he himself described it as a "floating house, sixty feet by fourteen, containing dining room, kitchen with fireplace, and two bedrooms, roofed from stem to stern ... " The flatboat belonged to Aaron Burr......" excerpted from 1812 The War that Forged a Nation by Walter Bourneman.
Is this when he was fleeing the feds? Or no, he wouldn't have been so conspicuous in that grand boat.
Incidentally, I have no interest in the occult or the death and suffering of soldiers; enough death of present day soldiers is in our newsppers to our great dismay and pain.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Ella, I've consulted a librarian about acquisition policies, and I was told that in this case it may have been a matter of funding - more money when the 1812 book came out (2004), than there was when the Kissinger book came out (2009). Perhaps, it was felt, there would be more interest in the one or the other. It would also reflect the kind of history research assignments in the schools, etc, etc.
Interesting reminder of the Burr discussion. Wasn't he a character! You're right. Burr wouldn't have been on the run on that lavish houseboat. I believe he was on his way to the Blennerhassetts and their mansion on the Ohio river island. Then he was still looking for support for his imperial schemes.
OTHER POWERS is mostly about the living. And much of it was pretty wild. Spiritualism became quite a fad after the Civil War because of the tremendous loss of life. I was thinking of marjifay's post about a week ago, about the Faust book: THE REPUPLIC OF SUFFERING. (post 1679)
Harold, is there a book out on the Madoff fraud? Just the other day I read something of a Madoff dil who is planning to publish a book on the subject. I don't know if she is the widow of Madoff's son. The son who took his own life.
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Just got from the library a book about the Supreme Court justices in Roosevelt's court. It looks interesting: I'll report on it later (have to read my mystery stories first!)
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Thanks, JONATHAN. Makes good sense that authors, publishers would suffer through a recession also; although our library system is supported through real estate taxes. Of course, real estate suffered through those years as well and are still.
In our discussion of Burr (what was the book?) I remember how surprised I was that he took a band of fellows up to Quebec to attempt to storm the city and gain fame and fortune for America! He was plumped up was he! - from the victories over the British. Well, the French weren't having it. I loved Quebec the one time I visited it. What a lovely city with its two levels, nothing to compare it with in my experience.
JOANK, tell us about it. I have a vague memory that FDR tried to pack the Supreme Court to get their support for something and I can't remember what. However, I remember it didn't work, one of the few ideas of his administration to fail and one that certainly seems ill thought out.
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I remember that time, ELLA, but only because my father talked about it. Roosevelt's
attempt to pack the court made my Dad highly suspicious of the man thereafter. It was a
serious mistake, tho' no doubt highly tempting to a polictician.
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Why later? Joan, for heavens sake, tell us the title of the SC packing case. On the other hand, my heartiest congratulations. At our age. With still some mysteries to solve! Or have you been saving them for now? Enjoy.
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I am reading a free online bio of Isabelle D'Este. They mentioned a sculptor who may have rivaled Michealangelo had he not been in bad health. His name is Cristoforo Romano and he had done a bust of Beatrice D'Este, so i went looking for a picture. In searching i found this site. It looks like it could keep one busy for days. Play around w/ the links which are those weird symbols at the top of the page and future pages, you'll find a lot of history readings.
http://www.third-millennium-library.com/readinghall/GalleryofHistory/DOOR.html
Enjoy......Jean
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A treasury for history buffs, JEAN. I'm sure you won't mind if I post that link in our Classics
discussion. If GINNY doesn't already know about it, she will love it!
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Babi - i actually had tho't of posting it in "the classics" post, but haven't been in there, so wasn't sure if it fit....... Jean
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Jean - Personally, I think it would be of great interest in "The Classics" post.
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I did post the link in Classics, but I'm not sure Ginny noticed it. It wasn't mentioned. Feel free
to post it again if you like.
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I'm reading a very interesting book, BLIND ALLEGIANCE TO SARAH PALIN by Frank Bailey.
You may not want to read it if you are a Palin fan, altho this is not strictly a bash Palin book. Bailey worked with her for several years and was her campaign manager during her run for Alaska's governor. He was a conservative Christian who fell under her spell, as many others did, until he got to know her better.
Marge
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Spurred on by the Mzartin Gardner book that fry recommended, I also got a book of his math and logic puzzles. They've been driving me crazy, although I still get an occasional one so I guess I'm not senile yet.
If you like that sort of thing and want to lie awake at night (if you'd rather not, skip the rest of this paragraph) try one that drove me crazy, and I DIDN'T get: prove that in the last Senionet get together, the number of people who shook hands an odd number of times is even (divisable by two). (Nevermind that we aare more likely to hug than to shake hands --- mathematicians are more formal).
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Okay. JOAN, I'm sticking my neck way out here, but....
This isn't math; it's logic. No matter how many odd-numbered handshakes an individual may make,
he/she is shaking hands with another person. That makes two.
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BABI: you're on the right track. But the puzzle was to show that the number of PEOPLE making an odd number of handshakes is even (but you're right. The total number of handshakes has to be even, and that's important).
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I must have misunderstood the problem, then, JOANK. So far as I could tell from the post, it was asking "the number of people who shook hands".
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This is not really about a book, but I have today been to St Mary's Episcopal Cathedral here in Edinburgh to see the new Prestonpans Tapestry. It is a series of the most amazing embroidered panels depicting the story of Bonnie Prince Charlie's return to Scotland, and the Battle of Prestonpans (which he won). The panels have been embroidered by groups from all over Scotland, with some coming from as far away as Australia and the USA. It is displayed all round the walls of the church, and is absolutely fascinating. Some of the contributors have put in special little "signatures" in the corners, like a tractor or some other symbol of where they are from - many are from the Outer Hebrides, Islay, Skye, etc.
Just to tie it in with a book, there are quotes from Sir Walter Scott embroidered onto some of the panels. You can see it here:
http://www.prestoungrange.org/tapestry/
Whilst I was in the Cathedral, someone was practising a bassoon piece (the Cathedral is closely connected to St Mary's Music School) - it was a hot day, and so lovely to be inside in the cool, hearing this beautiful music and being transported back to Scotland's romantic (if extremely bloody) past.
My knowledge of Scottish history is pretty poor (having been to school in the south of England) - I've never yet attempted any Scott - has anyone else? I have read Magnus Magnusson's History of Scotland, but I think I'd better read it again, as most of it went in one ear and out the other.
Rosemary
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Rosemarykaye, George's mother would have been very interested in the tapestry. She was a "Bonnie Prince Charlie" Stuart and proud of it. I have the Magnusson history but have never read it. I did, eons ago, read Antonia Fraser's history, and maybe ten years ago, read a volume about Robert the Bruce (don't remember the author).
I thought I read in the Robert the Bruce book that the difference in spelling came about to differentiate the Bonnie Prince Charlie followers from the rest of the Stewarts. In an article I read recently, the author stated that it was because the French didn't have a "w" in their language. If so, it still amounted to the same thing. Whether it was a change because of linguistic differences or from a wish to separate BPC followers from non-followers(combination, thereof?) it effectively made a political statement.
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Thanks Frybabe, I didn't know that about the Stewarts/Stuarts - always thought it was just an annoying Scottish thing that meant you nearly always got the wrong one!
Rosemary
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Rosemary: Thanks for the link to the Prestonpans tapestry - I'll need to take some time to look at. I have a branch in my family tree who are loyal Stuart supporters - it's a long story but they still give each child the name Stuart as one of their Christian names.
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Och Aye - As I was reading about the Bonnie Prince I remembered a song we were taught at school. I started to sing it:
After the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden and his escape back to France, with the aid of Flora MacDonald, there were still many who hoped that he would return, some day. Here is a song about that sentiment, written by Carolina Oliphant (Lady Nairne) in the first half of the 19th century). There are a number of versions of this song, this is one of them.
You can download an MP3 version of this song from Margaret Donaldson's Web site.
Will Ye No Come Back Again?
Bonnie Chairlie's noo awa',
Safely ower the friendly main;
Mony a heart will break in twa',
Should he ne'er come back again.
Chorus:
Will ye no come back again?
Will ye no come back again?
Better lo'ed ye canna be,
Will ye no come back again?
Ye trusted in your Hielan' men,
They trusted you dear Chairlie.
They kent your hidin' in the glen,
Death or exile bravin'.
Chorus
We watched thee in the gloamin' hour,
We watched thee in the mornin' grey.
Tho' thirty thousand pounds they gie,
O there is nane that wad betray.
Chorus
Sweet the laverock' s note and lang,
Liltin' wildly up the glen.
But aye tae me he sings ae sang,
Will ye no' come back again?
Chorus
Meaning of unusual words:
gloamin'=twilight
laverock=skylark
PS Loved the tapestry Rosemary, particularly the seascapes.
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I would love to have seen that tapestry, ROSEMARY. The link worked,
but unfortunately a further progression to viewing the tapestry did not.
We've been having some trouble with our internet connection lately. It
will do all we ask for a while, and then claim they cannot connect. So
aggravating.
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My father used to sing that song, Roshanarose. It brought a lump to my throat. Memories.
Those tapestries were spectacular, I was amazed there were so many of them, what...103 or so? I have short term memory problems, obviously!
Noted the name Dunkirk on one of them, strange to think it wouldn't have had any special significance then.
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How about a verse or two of, Scots, wha hae....
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A friend loaned us his copy of "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell - the "TippingPoint" and "Blink" author. Has anybody read it? It sounds intriquing.
The description on the back says "In understanding successful people, we have come to focus far too much on their intelligence and ambition and personality traits. ...... MC argues .....we should look at the world that surrounds the successful - their culture, their family, their generation, and their idiosyncratic experiences of their upbringing. (Dah!) Along the way Gladwell reveals what The Beatles and Bill Gates have in common, the reason you've never heard of the smartest man (sic) inthe world,........."
Sounds like the old "naure or nurture" story. I think we (my DH and our friends) should probably read David Brooks' book, "The Social Animal" after we read this one. Has anyone read it?
Jean
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I read "Blink". It was interesting.
Just finished "A Covert Affair" the story of the OSS in WWII. Julia and Paul Childs are major characters in it. It's very interesting.
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Rosemarykaye, that tapestry really sucked me in, and I couldn't stop until I'd looked at every single panel. Amazing. It must be even more so in the church. Can you see them well?
I was startled in panel 23 to see the Union Jack without the red cross of Saint Patrick (the red part of the diagonal cross). I looked it up--it was added in 1800--but I'd never seen the flag without. In panel 26, the sum of 30,000 pounds is offered for Charlie. What a fortune that must have been then, but none of the loyal Scots turned him in.
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I've never yet attempted any Scott - has anyone else?
Rosemary
I had to read a few of his poems in college, but they've vanished without a trace. On my own, I read Ivanhoe, The Talisman, and Quentin Durward, with great pleasure. I've no idea what I would think of them now.
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The closest I ever got to Sir Walter was when my sister read Ivanhoe. I think I'd like to try Rob Roy and Lady of the Lake. Ahhhhh, so many books, so little time.
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Our PBS station is reshowing the series on Abraham and Mary Lincoln, starting tonight. It should be fascinating, they are a great psychological study. And our favorite, David McCullough, is the narrator........ Jean
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I guess I just thought everyone read Ivanhoe since it was what we all had to read in 8th grade English - romantic stuff for the 14 year old but then back then 14 was probably more likely like an 11 or 12 year old today. Rob Roy - Lady of the Lake ah when adventure and myth was all we needed. Never read The Talisman - I bet I could find it online - I notice I swing through quickly a book online where as reading from paper at home takes me longer. Even reading from paper at a coffee table in the bookstore and I can read a whole book in a couple of hours. Part of the reason I think is a look up and dwell on some of what I read at home where as online or in a bookstore I simply read.
My younger sister is clearing out and she came across a book she forgot she had and forgot the story - Silas Marner - she was blown away with the first few chapters and ruminated about how a place can form character and personality and how isolation affects trust. Of course I had to quickly find it online to read along - it had been years and where I remembered the outline of the story I forgot so much of the page by page of the telling. Amazing how to read something at various stages in our life gives us new realizations and we can appreciate a story from a different perspective. With that maybe I should revisit Scott - although, Rob Roy was in my mind a straight out adventure, Lady of the Lake and Ivanhoe had nuance.
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Frybabe - you are so right, so many books! But I really must try to read some Scott, he was such an important person in Scottish history.
PatH - I'm glad you enjoyed the tapestry, and I wish you could visit Edinburgh, as you can indeed see each panel close up in the Cathedral - they are displayed on the walls at eye level and you could in theory touch them, though of course you are strictly forbidden to do so. That £30,000 impressed me too - but what impressed me the most was how strong and resilient all these men were, on both sides - marching for days practically non-stop over terrain that was far from easy.
Barb - you are so well read! I am ashamed! We did not read anything Scottish at school - and I have to admit that I often didn't read the set books at all, as it just riled me being made to read anything - I managed to pass the end of year test on The Hobbit (which I still haven't read) entirely from the crib notes. I had a wonderful English teacher who took a great interest in our lives, and I do feel bad that I didn't appreciate her at the time, and that I didn't keep in touch with her, such was the heady freedom of having escaped from loathsome school. It's only now that I realise how nice it must be if your pupils stay in contact.
Rosemary
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My sister read Ivanhoe for school class, otherwise she wasn't much of a reader back then. She liked Ivanhoe, but reading in general was boring to her then. I don't remember what curriculum she had but mine was Business with bookkeeping focus in high school. We didn't get language or chemistry or physics like the college prep students did. Back then Business students weren't expected to go on to college. Now a days, everyone goes on to college and the colleges, for the most part, have dropped the language requirement (big mistake, in my opinion).
I do remember reading Silas Marner, some Poe and The Scarlet Letter for class and plenty of Shakespeare. My English teacher in high school was, at the time, going for a masters with a focus on Shakespeare.
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I read all of Scotts novels, I believe, ROSEMARY. Shucks, I thought everyone did. Surely
a Scotswoman would have read them, right? National pride, and all that.
I loved them, but of course I was young at the time. That may have made a difference...
but I doubt it. I wouldn't mind reading them again; it's been so long. Actually, reading
the following posts, I don't remember reading "The Talisman". But as I said, it was long,
long ago.
Ah, you missed something with 'The Hobbit", ROSEMARY. A charming and delightful book,
with enough grit in it to keep it far from being childish.
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Yes Babi, I am full of shame - but actually I am not a Scotswoman, I just live here! I was born in London!
Rosemary
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;)
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Barbara - Silas Marner - George Eliot is one of my favourite 19th century authors - well, isn't she everyone's favourite.... I've read all her novels more than once and some of her other stuff too which aren't exactly 'beach reads'
Babi - you read ALL of Scott's novels? Wow! - I've read most but certainly not all. We have a fondness for Scott because one of DHs distant family connections helped Scott in gathering ballads for the 'Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border' - He was the orientalist and linguist Dr John Leyden who died young in what was then called Batavia - Scott mourned him in 'The Lord of the Isles' with a few lines in Canto IV:
Quench's is his lamp of varied lore,
That loved the light of song to pour;
A distant and a deadly shore
Has Leyden's cold remains.
Leyden took issue with Scott over the character of 'Marmion' but even so these few lines written by Leyden who also wrote poetry appear at the beginning of Scott's 'Marmion'
Alas! that Scottish maid should sing
The combat where her lover fell!
That Scottish Bard should wake the string,
The triumph of our foes to tell!
LEYDEN.
- connections, connections.... weird isn't it?
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Interesting man, Dr. Leyton. Too bad he didn't write more. Here is a link to a bio on the Denholm Village website which includes one or two of his poems and a photo at the bottom , being that of Lady Raffles besides whom he is buried. http://www.denholmvillage.co.uk/johnleyden.html
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Wow Gumtree, what interesting ancestors you have! My mother has been researching her family tree for as long as I can remember, and there is not a glimmer of a claim to fame amongst any of them.
Rosemary
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Oh, well, not Scots. In that case you're forgiven, ROSEMARY. ;)
I say I've read all of them, GUM, but that may have been all I was
aware of. There were possibly less well-known books of his I've missed.
Ivanhoe was my favorite.
Uhh, how do we happen to be discussing Scott and Eliot in non-fiction??
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Rosemary:
Wow Gumtree, what interesting ancestors you have
He's not exactly an ancestor as he had no offspring - it's just a family connection. DH and I were quite chuffed to find we had one interesting family each. Leyden is his, mine is a Jacobite family who were prominent in the English King's army for generations and who maintained a safe house complete with underground tunnels for Jacobites on the run. It's such fun!
Babi how do we happen to be discussing Scott and Eliot in non-fiction??
I've been wondering the same thing. Wish I could think of a suitable book title to recommend - maaybe J.G Lockhart's Memoirs of the Life of Sir Walter Scott would do the trick...or could put everyone to sleep. I think it's in ten volumes....
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I'm afraid I dragged him in re that Prestonpans tapestry ;D
Happy to drag him out again.....
Rosemary
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GUM: I think I'll give that one a miss. I read Scott as a romantic teenager, and thought he was WONDERFUL! I wonder what I'd think now.
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I think it's in ten volumes....
:o Uh, no, I think I'll pass on that one, GUM.
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Ten volumes is probably more than anyone wants to know, or has time for. Endless letters and memos, laundry lists and social teas and notebook entries. Why not try the one volume edition, based on Lockhart's own 'shorter history.' My 1915 reprint of the original EVERYMAN'S edition has this by the editor: 'Scott's biographer was a remarkable compressor of the overmuch into the enough.'
Scott never seems to have suffered from writer's block. Opening the book at random, this caught my eye:
Unlike, I believe, most men, whenever Scott neared the end of one composition, his spirit seems to have caught a new spring of buoyancy, and before the last sheet was sent from his desk he had crowded his brain with the imagination of another fiction.
Did Scott do any one volume thing that summed it all up? The fiction.
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I am presently reading "In The Garden Of Beasts", by Erik Larson. It is described as a narrative non fiction. It concerns a family moving to Berlin in 1933, when the man is appointed Ambassador by FDR. It is an easy read, and very informative. That time period intrigues me. What would it have been like for an American family to move to Berlin, at that time?
I am not sure when the book ends. The review I read says: "The result is a dazzling, addictive readable work that speaks volumes about why the world did not recognize the grave threat posed by Hitler, until Berlin and Europe, were awash in blood and terror".
Sheila
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I am still reading Lucretia Borgia by Ferdinand Gregorovius (1904). The first third of the book concentrates more on the cultural and political atmosphere and events surrounding Lucretia than on her. Only now that she is about to embark on her third marriage does the author begin to show his vague support for her. I am to the point where rumors are circulating about an incestuous affair with her brother Don Giovanni. There is nothing officially to support or deny the rumors. The author, so far, is presenting Lucretia more as a pawn (occasionally willingly) to her Father's and her brother Caesar's wishes. In fact, Caesar is being cast as a really nasty guy. His good ol' Pope Dad is supporting him even though he disregards his Dad's commands on occasion.
What a dangerous game these people play. The politics and vacillating allegiances of the city-states is mind boggling and difficult to keep up with.
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An interesting discussion here, including all the fiction. I'd forgotten that we read Ivanhoe im -- 9th grade? Silas Marner in 10?. Would Scott be a worthwhile read again?
JOanK and Sheila, you both are reading books that I think I'd like to read -- The Covert Affair and In the Garden of the Beasts. One of my friends in my f2f group reads all the Erik Larsons, but after each one she says, "It was okay, but not as good as Devil in White City. How do you think it compares, Sheila. And JoanK, should I read Covert Affair before My Life in France?
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I got the first season of "The Tudors" at the library last night. The first disk was frustrating because it kept stopping, but i finally got thru it. It had the first three episodes. Henry is still with Kathryn, but Ann Boleyn has entered the picture. The costumes and scenery are wonderful. I checked, they won an Emmy in 2008 and awards from Irish Films. Wikipedia lists some liberties they took w/ history, but it's entertaining, none the less.
Jean
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Jean - I am watching "The Tudors" on TV. It was on last night. Henry continues to have problems - or you could say Bad Karma. So far, apart from Henry himself (well at least the actor is Welsh) my favourite character has been Anne Boleyn. She acts the part very well, very convincingly. If anyone wants me to go out Friday nights - they have no chance ;) It is a sumptuous feast, indeed.
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Ah, yes, JEAN. The entertainment industry is not about to let a few facts
get in the way of entrancing the viewer. ;)
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The whole story of Henry's sister Margaret marrying and then killing the OLD king of Portugal and marrying Henry's friend was a total fiction. Based on the other events' timeline, she would have already been married to James of Scotland. That's more than taking liberties to enhance a story line in my opinion. ......... There are more nude females in this series than in anything else i've ever seen....... Come on you fifteen-year-old boy directors, it gets boring after a while to the adults you want as viewers.
Jean
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Jean, that's exactly how I felt about all the sex scenes!
I had watched all but the last program in the series. That night, I went to a granddaughter's recital - and forgot to record it. From the previews, I think the series must have ended with Anne B.'s beheading. Am I correct?
Are we to expect another season for Lady Jane?
Just answered my own question :D I found the Showtime Channel information on the series and learned that I had seen Season One and all but the final episode of Season Two. If Season Three followed - I didn't know about it.
No seasons are being currently shown on Showtime.
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I am recording the Tudors on Showtime. I hadn't read it, when it was first shown. So far, it is offering shows #1-9. My daughter raved about how wonderful the series was. I have no idea if there will be more seasons to come.
As for "Garden of the Beasts", I haven't finished it, yet. Nor have I read any of the author's other books.
Sheila
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I'm slightly more than half way through "Garden of the Beasts". It isn't as intense as I expected it to be but I can't exactly say I'm "enjoying" it. It is a glimpse of an era about which I know very little.
I suspect I will know as much as I care to by the time I finish the book.
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PEDLIN: " should I read Covert Affair before My Life in France?"
Not necessarily. I assume "My Life in France" is by Julia Child? She is a character in "Covert", and it occurs before she goes to France, but she is not the main focus --it's not really her biography. It might be "neater" to read them in order, but I don't think it would make much difference if you didn't.
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I just got a wonderful book through Amazon for just $8.00. "Herstory:a Timeline of the Women Who Changed America". It briefly mentions over 900 women and is chuck full of wonderful pictures of either the women or the artifacts related to them. Unfortunately it was written in 2007, so it doesn't include Sarah or Hillary.
There is a very nice foreward by Madeleine Albright. If you have grandchildren - girls or boys - it would be a wonderful gift. I'm going to order at least one more for our library, it's a wonderful jumping off point for men, women, girls and boys to explore and then delve into women's contributions in our history.
The authors, Charlotte Waisman and Jill Tietjen, have very thoughtfully provided an alphabetical, by name, index and a professions index. They are both involved in leadership and mentoring programs for girls. Tietjen began compiling a list after being in a group of well-educated women, none of whom knew who Margaret Sanger was. She went looking for a comprehensive women's history to use with her young women who were interested in technical and science fields, and didn't find what she was looking for, so she began her own project.
It is a beautiful book, one i will want to pick up and pick thru often even though i have a good background in women's history. ........
Jean
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Jean - I just checked Amazon and it seems there is a new edition due out next year, so maybe that will include Palin. Clinton, etc?
Rosemary
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JEAN, I can only hope that Sarah Palin is just a blip, and will leave no
lasting mark. Sorry, but I find nothing admirable about the woman. Hillary,
of course, is living a major chapter.
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I'm not a fan of Sarah either, but she is the personification, and most famous person, of the right wing of the Republican party and was the second woman to run for vice-president.
One of the interesting aspects of this book is it includes sev'l Confederate woman. We know about Clara Barton and other nurses of Union soldiers, and women who spied for the Union or raised money for the Union, but we don't have many of those stories about Confederate women - after all, they were "the enemy", so they were not heroes in U.S. history. "The winners write the history..........." What i'm saying is that the book is very inclusive in all kinds of ways, including the non-politically correct women.
Jean
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Babi said, " I can only hope that Sarah Palin is just a blip, and will leave no
lasting mark. Sorry, but I find nothing admirable about the woman. Hillary,
of course, is living a major chapter."
I agree in spades, Babi. I enjoyed Hillary's autobiography, Living History.
Marj
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Unfortunately Margaret Thatcher was not a blip :D
Rosemary
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Granted, JEAN, but there is a thin line between 'famous' and 'notorious'. ;D
I hadn't realized all those well-known ladies from the civil war era were on
the Northern side, but of course you are right who is writing the history. How about you, JEAN. I'll bet you could write a book about some of those neglected ladies.
Well, ROSEMARY, any woman with her power and her influence on the course of the nation could hardly be dismissed. It's kind of like seeing a 7-ft, 300-pound nude man in middle of the road and trying to ignore him. :-\
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"It's kind of like seeing a 7-ft, 300-pound nude man in middle of the road and trying to ignore him."
Funny, Babi!. I don't remember reading that much about Thatcher except she and Reagan seemed to be good friends, and since I didn't like Reagan at the time, the feeling rubbed off onto her. I really should read about her--I know she's written several books about those times.
I watched Adam Hochschild on BookTV yesterday talk about his book TO END ALL WARS, and I want to read it. He talked about some of the very interesting people who were so much against the "Great War" who were put into prison for speaking out their views. One woman who traveled back and forth without proper papers between France and Germany talking to influencial people trying desperately to get them to agree to stop the war. It's available on BookTV.com to watch and it's worth it just to hear the song he plays at the end by some Scottish writer, who sings at the grave of a 19-year-old who died in the war..."Did they beat the drums, slowly, lad,... start the words... So sad you can't help the tears that come. Beautiful song.
Marge
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Marjifay - Thatcher was a terrible woman who did everything she could to disempower the trade unions, brought the mining industry to an end, and went to war over a few small islands in the middle of nowhere. People thought that because she was female she would advance the cause of women in general - in fact she did the opposite of that, she was one of those women who essentially behave like a man, and who have no time for helping anyone else - her attitude was "I've made it so why can't they?" I lived in London at the time that she was finally unseated - I remember being on a bus in Brixton, and as the rumour spread around the bus that she had gone, the feeling of shared elation was really quite amazing.
Rosemary
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Sarah Palin is our answer to Pauline Hanson. If you haven't heard of Hanson, be very happy. But for the record, just a taste of her maiden speech to Parliament. Hanson began the great divide in the Australian population, John Howard finished it. Although professing to despise Hanson, John Howard actually paraphrased parts of this speech to demonise refugees.
Immigration and multiculturalism are issues that this government is trying to address, but for far too long ordinary Australians have been kept out of any debate by the major parties. I and most Australians want our immigration policy radically reviewed and that of multiculturalism abolished. I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians. Between 1984 and 1995, 40 per cent of all migrants coming into this country were of Asian origin. They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate. Of course, I will be called racist but, if I can invite whom I want into my home, then I should have the right to have a say in who comes into my country. A truly multicultural country can never be strong or united. The world is full of failed and tragic examples, ranging from Ireland to Bosnia to Africa and, closer to home, Papua New Guinea. America and Great Britain are currently paying the price. Arthur Calwell was a great Australian and Labor leader, and it is a pity that there are not men of his stature sitting on the opposition benches today. Arthur Calwell said: Japan, India, Burma, Ceylon and every new African nation are fiercely anti-white and anti one another. Do we want or need any of these people here? I am one red-blooded Australian who says no and who speaks for 90% of Australians. I have no hesitation in echoing the words of Arthur Calwell.
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Whew. Sounds like the great lady Thatcher could have written that too. Would be interesting to trace this lot's own ancestry.
Rosemary
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Rosemary:
Unfortunately Margaret Thatcher was not a blip
Nor is our Prime Minister, Julia Gillard who admires Thatcher enormously to the point of trying to model herself on her.
Roshanarose - good analogy between Palin and Hanson...
Howard sure spat the dummy on that occasion. To my mind the mistake they make is to promote multiculturalism rather than cosmopolitanism. One is divisive the other unifying.
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Talking about woman who affected their world have any of you read The Zookeeper's Wife: A War Story - I didn't realize it is a true story and it has been showing up on the charts for months now.
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Oops. Actually, MARJ, I didn't mean that as a description of Margaret Thatcher herself.
It was just a simile of how powerful and influential she was in her role. I really should be more careful. She can easily be disliked; she just can't be ignored.
I knew nothing about Pauline Hanson and John Howard, but I recognize the type. There always
seem to be some around and they're not bashful about putting forth their 'us against them'
viewpoints. And the 'us' always seems to be exceedingly narrow.
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Yes, Barb, I read The Zookeeper's Wife sometime ago. A great true story. I was surprised that so many of the Polish people risked their lives to save the Jews in Warsaw. I don't know why, but I'd heard they were quite anti-semetic, but either that was wrong or else there were a good many who looked to the Jews there as friends and good members of their community.
And, I knew you were not describing Thatcher, Babi. But a great analogy of something/someone you can't ignore! LOL
Marge
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Not all influential women wee/are good. A book about men who changed history would have to include hitler after all.
" we don't have many of those stories about Confederate women - after all, they were "the enemy", so they were not heroes in U.S. history. "The winners write the history."
I was interested, when I read "Reveille in Washingtom" by Margeret Leech, the story of washington DC during the Civil war, to read some fascinating stories of women who spied for the Confederacy, women I had never heard of.
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Not all influential women wee/are good. A book about men who changed history would have to include hitler after all.
Good point, JOANK. I trust, though, that nothing Palin does is going to
change history. She will, tho', be a least a footnote. She is the first woman
nominated to be a VP, isn't she?
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No, Babi - remember Geraldine Ferraro - VP candidate with Walter Mondale.
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" we don't have many of those stories about Confederate women - after all, they were "the enemy", so they were not heroes in U.S. history. "The winners write the history."
This is the Civil War Sesquicentennial so there are many articles appearing in the local papers and magazines. Many southerners kept journals and diaries. Many have been printed and are mostly in family and historical archives.
I just read the account from the diaries of a private in the Army of Tennessee. A former classmate and friend had it printed and sent me a copy. There are copies in the State archives, local library, and the National battlefield memorial park at Stones River. The private was her great-great grandfather, and at Stones River where her great-great Uncle died during that battle.
Even though I am reading the New York Times book excerpts they have put together and are publishing in the paper this year, I have decided not to read any published books on the war by people who were not there. I will only read published diaries this year and there are many, but one has to search them out.
I found one in our Electric Membership Corporation magazine this month. It is the diary of Margaret Lee Henegar. An excerpt...
Union Gen. William Sherman stood on the porch of Margaret Lee Henegar's home in Charleston, Tenn. Yet to embark on his devastating "March to the Sea" to sever Confederate supply lines and scorch the countryside from Atlanta to Savannah, Ga., the general was using the Henegar House as a headquarters. He urged Mrs. Henegar to move her family, but she refused, saying she would not abandon her family homestead. (there is a photo of the house which still stands)
"When I am through with the South not even a bird will fly here", Sherman said to Henegar, whose story lives today through a journal she kept.
Tennessee was second to Virginia in the number of battles that occured on its land, so there are many markers and 'The Tennessee Civil War Trails' has marked the major battles and also many sites of conflict or interest.
We have formed the Tennessee Trails discussion group, and so far have read three journals and diaries and visited some of the sites of the events. Much more interesting than the NYT site, we know the outcome and history, but not the human side of what happened here.
Emily
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Anyone who watched Ken Burns documentary surely has heard of Mary Boykin Chesnut who was quoted throughout the film. She kept a diary during the war, and here is an excerpt from her biography. She was a southern woman from South Carolina.
Chesnut's diary
In February 1861 Mary began a diary that recorded the explosive happenings around her during the years of the Civil War. Following her husband on his duties in the South, she provides a firsthand view of the political world of the Confederacy (the name for the Southern states that had seceded and fought as a group). After the war's first battles, she soon began to write of the horrors of the war as well. She recorded the stories she heard about various battles as well as her personal experiences, including tending sick and wounded soldiers and mourning the loss of friends and acquaintances. She strongly criticized the decisions of Southern leaders, and she complained about her lack of power as a woman in the South.
As the war worsened for the South, defeat seemed impossible to avoid by the beginning of 1865. To avoid danger, Mary moved to North Carolina, where, with growing hopelessness, she recorded the news of the Confederate army's collapse. In April of 1865, Confederate general Robert E. Lee (1807–1870) surrendered in Appomattox, Virginia, ending the Civil War.
Publication of diary
After the war the Chesnuts returned to Camden. In 1873 Mary began to evaluate the extensive diaries that she had compiled during the war, and eventually she decided to publish them. While working to prepare and polish the material over the next few years, she published one story from her diary in the Charleston Weekly News and Courier. This was the only item that Mary published during her life.
In the late 1870s and early 1880s, Mary's work was interrupted by a series of illnesses affecting her lungs and heart. Both her husband and mother had died in January 1885, and she was left depressed and with a reduced income. She died of a heart attack in Camden on November 22, 1886.
After Mary's death, printed versions of her work appeared in the early 1900s. Although editors removed some material, even these incomplete versions became extremely popular for their wealth of information about the difficulties of Southern life during the Civil War. The diary also revealed her strong support for greater rights for Southern women, whom Mary felt were also enduring a kind of slavery in the traditional male-dominated society of the South. In 1981 a publication entitled Mary Chesnut's Civil War provided for the first time the complete version of her diary, revealing the full depths of Mary Chesnut's valuable personal history of the Civil War.
I had not read Mary Chesnut's diary, but the Ken Burns documentary on PBS introduced her to the entire country.
Emily
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Emily, obviously you're from Tennessee, too. I'm in Chattanooga. Which part of the state? (if you don't mind saying)
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Mary, I'm in Middle Tennessee. We are called the Highland Rim, but it is so hot today, it feels more like a swamp. I am nearer Nashville than Chattanooga.
Emily
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Emily, we lived in Hendersonville for 24 years, have been here for 25 years. One daughter still lives in Nashville, one in Hillsboro (near Manchester).
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Yes! Mary Chestnut gave us a wonderful picture of a woman in the Confederacy and is quoted now in almost any narrative of the Civil War.
The Herstory Timeline includes Belle Boyd who lived in what is now W. Va. who raised money for the Conf'y, charmed info out of Union officers, acted as a courier because of her riding skills and knowlegde of the Shenandoah Valley, smuggled supplies and quinine to Conf trps. She was discovered as a spy, captured "on sev'l ocassions and punished".
I'm going to have to find out more about her.
This was in my email today from a history site "wonders and marvels", a new book about Harriet Beecher Stowe's influence on history.
http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2011/07/mightier-than-the-sword.html
Those Beechers were something else.
Jean
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I remember reading a lot about your 'Iron Lady'. Rosemary.Very formidable.
What stuck in my mind about the Falklands War was seeing the queen as just a mother whose son(Prince Andrew) was in combat. She must have thought of all the mothers and widows she'd talked to through the years.
Roshanarose, I spend a lot of time going into bat for refugees, a lot of people insist on calling them 'illegals' and 'boat people' and vilify them. I always try to put myself in their place, and ask myself 'what if it was my child', wouldn't I try anything to give them a better life?
Howard made a public show of rejecting the people on the Tampa, but later quietly processed them into Australia. People only remembered the "we will decide who comes to Australia, and the manner in which they come' speech.
I think of the people in wretched poverty, who invited my sons into their homes and shared the little they had with the visitor.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Octavia - I wish all Australians had the same point of view. I was a refugee advocate from 1999 up to about 2006. We used to set up our stall in West End, one of the more cosmopolitan parts of Brisbane. We had the usual badges, pamphlets, posters etc. Abuse was normal. But our arguments were pretty compelling, more or less based on what you said about walking in someone else's shoes. We did "convert" some people but not nearly enough. There were always two of us "womanning" the stall. Sometimes one of us would have to leave the other. One day my companion left to get some lunch. The abuse would often increase if one of us was solo. Anyway, a taxi stopped in the middle of the very busy road near where we had our stall. He raced towards me, and he was big. I thought he was going to attack me. Instead, he held out his hand and gave me fifty dollars and said "I want to help those poor buggers". Amid much honking he returned to his car and threw a kiss at me.
There are so many other incidents. But don't want to go on about the topic here. I have an Afghan friend who was on the Tampa.
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Octavia said, "Roshanarose, I spend a lot of time going into bat for refugees, a lot of people insist on calling them 'illegals' and 'boat people' and vilify them. I always try to put myself in their place, and ask myself 'what if it was my child', wouldn't I try anything to give them a better life?"
I understand your feelings abut "illegals" fleeing from poverty. But here in the Southern California area, especially Los Angeles, the illegals coming across the border from Mexico have put a terrible strain on the budgets of the schools, hospitals, police departments, prisons, and they have added to the bad gangs who commit crimes, scribble gang writing all over public walls and buildings, etc. I felt your way when the boat people came here from the Vietnam war, and they have formed responsible communities and become good Americans. But I don't feel that way about the current illegals coming in from Mexico.
Marj
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Yes Marj - I suppose most of us over here feel the same way about Polish people (who are not refugees, but have clearly come here to have a better life, and are well integrated, good citizens, who work hard), and Romanians, who sit on street corners begging and shouting at us. I really do try to tell myself that they have nothing compared to the affluent west, but it's hard because they don't seem to want to do anything. However, most of the real trouble in Scottish cities does not come from refugees/immigrants - it comes from binge drinking and drug taking - the latter really dominates parts of every city, and leads to all sorts of crimes, and the drinking is just horrible - and also, of course, leads to a lot of hospital admissions that the creaking NHS is still obliged to fund. My neighbour used to work in A & E in Aberdeen and she said almost all the customers on Friday and Saturday nights were drunk, and it was a scary place.
We now see this with the same Brits going over to mainland Europe on holiday and getting into all sorts of trouble because the drink is cheap and that's what they go for. It's embarrassing.
Rosemary
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MARYZ, I cheerfully confess that your knowledge of political history is far
greater than mine...which is abysmal! Politics and high finance are two
subjects that always left me with a blank stare of incomprehension.
The refugee question is so complex. I sympathize with what MARJ had to say about Southern
California, and I suppose that may be true all along the border. I must say, though, that the
Mexican people I have met living locally are hard-working, friendly and helpful. My cousin
Rosalie is godmother to one young lady of such a family. And with their respect for the elderly,
I have found more than once that if I am in difficulties while out in public, any Latino man
about will promptly come to my aid. And, oh, yes,...the current management here is a Latino
woman and the best we have ever had.
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Thought on the shouting beggars - a bunch of St. Ed students (St. Edwards University, founded by the Holy Cross fathers) lived for a week among the homeless - the recap was how no one looked at you much less looked you in the eye even if they handed you some of their pocket money. They felt as if the community wanted them to be invisible - And so the shouters may be asking for attention that makes them feel they are part of the town, city whatever...
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Babi said, "I must say, though, that the
Mexican people I have met living locally are hard-working, friendly and helpful. My cousin
Rosalie is godmother to one young lady of such a family. And with their respect for the elderly, I have found more than once that if I am in difficulties while out in public, any Latino man about will promptly come to my aid."
Babi, I know there are people from Mexico here in Southern California who have become good citizens. I'm talking about the illegal ones who are not interested in becoming good citizens.
This morning I was happy to hear that the police authorities announced the arrest here in Orange and Los Angeles counties of 99 purported members of the Mexican Mafia gang.
Marj
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Marjifay - do you live anywhere near San Juan Capistrano? My uncle and aunt used to live there and I visited them when I was at college.
Rosemary
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The problem marjifay is there are good and bad among all people and just as there are a percentage of folks coming here with bad intentions there are as many, if not more who come to bring money to their family. Having hiked in Mexico and stayed at a couple of villages tucked away in the mountains I learned that there is no money in these villages - not poverty no money - just no money - they are completely self sufficient until they need something that cannot be supplied by nature or their work and then they need money -
For over 100 years that money was gained as someone or a few from the village went to a town or ranch large enough that work would be paid with money - then they went further as they learned of the acres of orchards and crops to be picked in northern Mexico and then they gradually saw that work in the US paid more so they did not have to be away from their family as long - when they have the money needed back home they go.
They need money to buy a foot powered sewing machine for a crippled daughter or grandmother to sew what is needed in the community - there is no electricity - candles are used - there is no running water - all water is from the nearby stream which is where villages are located - there is a small fire continually burning in the corner of the adobe huts/houses with most often thatched roofs - or the house is made of logs that are the face with a door to an interior dug out of the side of a hill or mountain by several generations back in their family -
They need money to buy corrugated tin panels for a roof - they need money to buy a cow - they need money to buy some land - they need money for any medical need beyond the ability of the local curandera. When the family member goes for money the remaining family, often a young wife with 3 or more children under the age of 5, has no word for sometimes years - there is no mail unless the family can get to a nearby town and then the postal workers steal anything that is mailed - if there is a bad season and the corn does not grow children and old folks actually die from starvation - there is no backup - when we hiked we always took a burro packed with rice and beans to leave with those we met who were on the edge.
The Tarahumara are the only tribe that has land rights and if their land is confiscated by the government or sold there is a cash transaction - other tribes legal rights to their land is from, none at all to very few rights so the people cannot better themselves through land sales.
Some migrant workers are from larger communities - again the need is for money - when they come here their plan is to work and get back home - the work to earn what is needed usually takes about 3 to 4 years - and yes, some do fall in love while here and start a family. It gets more and more difficult to go home as they did each year at Christmas risking only that their money earned would be stolen before they got home - now if they can get back they are afraid they cannot return and the longer they are away from family the more likely they do not return.
If we had an adequate number of temporary work permits most of the problems caused would be eliminated for both the Mexican worker and the Americans who require their labor and know how. We no longer have the kind of occupational training available in our schools and most farms are no longer small enterprises family run with many kids knowing how to pick and operate the machinery needed. Nor do we have training for our kids how to build roads etc. which is mostly done cheaply because the source of labor had been illegals. Those who see this as a problem do need to review how business economics works and how low wages not only keeps prices down but allows us to educate our kids for more than jobs in the fields or nailing roofs on houses or laying gravel and tar on the roads.
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One of our PBS stations is starting the series on Abraham and Mary Lincoln at 9EDT. I think there are six hours in all. David McCullough is narating. David Herbert Donald is one of the historians who talk. I love his accent.
Jean
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Sorry Mabel - just a bit of clarification as to what a refugee is.
Firstly, a refugee is NOT an illegal immigrant. By using those last words John Howard divided a Nation.
International Council of Human Rights wrote:
Article 1 of the Convention as amended by the 1967 Protocol provides the definition of a refugee:
"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.."[5
It is important to note that the status of "unauthorized immigrant" may coincide with or be replaced by the status of "asylum seeker" for emigrants who have escaped a war or repression and have unlawfully crossed into another state. If they are recognized as "legitimate" asylees by the destination state, they will then gain status. However, there may be numerous potential asylees in a destination state who are unwilling to apply or have been denied asylum status, and hence are categorized as "unathorized immigrants" and may be subject to punishment or deportation. However the Ariticle 31 of Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees prohibits the Contracting States to impose penalties on refugees for their illegal enter or presence, who come directly form a territory where their life or freedom are threatened.[25] It is extremely rare, actually I have heard of no cases where any Afghan Hazaras have been deported to Afghanistan. Their lives would be at stake.
The Vietnamese who were also "boat people" were welcomed into Australia as well and have proved to be good citizens etc etc. Some people say, including me that there was a measure of political guilt as to why the Vietnamese were accepted and released almost immediately into society in Australia. Strictly speaking, their circumstances were similar to our current refugees. 1) They were fleeing a war; 2) they were being persecuted; 3) they were being murdered. The current refugees to Australia are predominantly Afghan (specifically the Hazara tribe) and Iraqis - both, not by coincidence, Shia. Afghanistan was and still is ruled by Sunni Muslims. Hamid Karzai and the Taliban are all Sunni. Iraq was ruled by Saddam Hussein and the Ba'ath Party who are also Sunni. Both refugee groups are also Muslim. Australians in general have no idea about the politics and the deaths in their homelands of these refugees or of Muslims in general. Many just tend to call them "Queue jumpers" and "illegal immigrants". Both terms are incorrect in their application.
The Hazaras have been terrorised and persecuted since the Anglo-Afghan war by the rulers of Afghanistan. It is to their credit they stayed as long as they did, but when your children and you are forced into eating grass because the Taliban have taken your land and shoot you on sight, I think that is a bloody good reason to jump on a boat. Do a search for Hazaras if you want more information. They are still being killed in Afghanistan and in Quetta, Pakistan where many of them fled after it was no longer safe to remain in Afghanistan. Not a rant, truth.
www.hazarapeople.com - If you are interested please read the Hazara letter to the world on the right hand top side of the page.
Pretty straightforward if you know.
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Rosemary asked, "Marjifay - do you live anywhere near San Juan Capistrano? My uncle and aunt used to live there and I visited them when I was at college."
No, San Juan Capistrano is in the very southern part of Orange County. Where the swallows used to come back to the mission there, but few now do. Since everyone used to come there to greet the swallows, I was with a group once that for fun grouped there to wave and say goodbye to the swallows. Silly stuff. LOL
I live in the very northern part of Orange County, near Disneyland.
Marj
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Thanks for those definitions, ROSHANA. It does clarify the issue. So, the
people BARB describes, who come over because of a need for cash money, are
not refugees. I can sympathize with their need for money, given their financial
status. I can also sympathize with those communities who find their resurces
under a heavy strain because of 'unauthorized immigrants'. It's a harsh dilemma,
finding a balance between compassion and common sense.
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I'm reading Malcom Gladwell's "Outliers". He's the author of "Tipping Point". In a discussion at dinner last week, a dear friend said "i've got a book you've got to read. Come by the house after dinner and pick it up." then they went on a vacation and my husband and i are reading it until they get back home. We will have a lively discussion about it. His premise is that we tend to think of really successful people as being very smart and/or very talented, but there are many, many other factors that relate to success: one is one's timing of being in the world (Bill Gates coming of age at the same time as computers); having spent 10,000 hours working on your skill; having people to assist you at the right time and to do the right things, and your cultural heritage, which can be a positive or a negative in one's success. (not racial or ethnic background, but cultural behaviors) .
He has a very interesting chapter on the importance of independence vs authoritarian-leaning behavior. He uses the examples of captains and first officers' relationships in airplanes and the coorelation to airplane crashes because first officers and more subordinates didn't speak up, or nor assertively enough to stop the crash. It reminded me of something i heard along the way of my life/education about DDay and passed on to my management training and college history students......... Because of the US soldiers' history of independence and taking charge, when their officers were killed in battle, especially on DDay, the soldiers organized themselves and cont'd on with whatever they had to do. Because of generations, maybe centuries of European history of boarding schools and authoritarianism, when European, especially German, officers were injured or killed, their young soldiers sat down and waited for someone w/ authority to tell them what to do.
I found myself saying thru the book,"of course, of course". I believe there are many factors that create successful people and nobody does it alone, no one IMO is a "self-made" person. He made me think about that in a more focused way though and i am glad my friend suggested it. As i said, we'll have a lot to talk about at our next dinner. I recommend it.
Jean
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Ah Roshanarose that was the point I was trying to make, that refugees aren't illegals. Illegals come by plane and overstay their visas.
Anyway, this is a book folder :) and I have a library book called Life: a guide on what to expect in each seven -year stage. Also gives a list of achievers for each age.
My sister is depressed about turning 70 next year, and I wonder if she'll be cheered up by Golda Meir being elected at 70? Maybe not!
My age chapter is 'Intimacy or Invisibility'. I know that 'invisibility' feeling ::)
There's also a long list of the best things in life. I agree with them all. Examples-reading a great book, listening to rain spattering on the roof while lying in bed,reading a great book, the smell of babies' heads etc,. I'd combine the first two, actually.
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Ella and I are planning a discussion of “Berlin, 1961” by Frederick Kempe Beginning September 1st. This Book is about one of the 4 or 5 major East/West cold war confrontations that kept the world on pins and needles during the several decades following the end of WW II. This may be the first SeniorNet/Seniorlearn discussion of a Cold war event.
All of you are invited to participate in this dissuasion that will begin September 1st and continue through the month of September. Ella and I hope you will be here. We will need 6 or more active participants. Click the following to join. http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2389.0
For more information on the book Click : http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/berlin-1961-frederick-kempe/1100055244?ean=9780399157295&itm=2&usri=berlin%2b1961
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I finally finished the Lucretia Borgia bio (published in 1904). It really had very little of LB in the book. Most of it was what was going on around her. Apparently, the woman was highly thought of after she managed to get away from her father and brother in Rome. Most of the surviving documents that mention her show her in a very good light. What struck me the most, I think, was the attention to clothing and appearance and the extreme flattery which pervaded correspondence and conversations at that time.
The book is at odds with some of what Wikipedia has to say, but perhaps the author did not have access to some of the documents later biographers did. The book also states that although there are paintings that may be of LB, the only confirmed portraits of her are those of the medals struck in her honor.
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Frybabe, I've been following your progress through the book on Lucretia Borgia, getting more curious with every mention of it in your posts. In fact you got me going on a history of the Borgias that I've had on my shelf for years. The book I have is by Clemente Fusero, pub in 1966. I'm about halfway through it, but going slowly with all the other things going. What a colorful family.
Are you aware of the TV series on the Borgias? In nine parts. Just completed and shown here in Canada in April/May. Fabulous. It will no doubt be coming to a theater near you before too long. Starring Jeremy Irons as Pope Alexancer VI. It took some getting used to, seeing him in all his clerical vestments, on his papal throne. I kept seeing him as Charles Ryder, the agnostic, bemused by his very Catholic friend Sebastian in Brideshead Revisited. Catholicism was beyond his comprehension. As a pope he looks most comfortable when he is dealing with political problems. What a close-knit family.
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I have seen a couple of the Borgias series as reruns on some 3or4 sunday evening beginning 6 or 7weeks ago. I was watching with a friend at her place so I don't know, what channel. Suffice it to say I thought them interesting and regret not viewing the entire series.
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I haven't seen the TV series, Jonathan. It is on a station I don't get. It will show up sooner or later on one I do.
I imagine it is sometimes hard to confirm or deny the things that are said of historical figures. It appears that sucking up, ingratiating behavior, and gross flattery was common in that era. One of the things I had to chuckle at was instead of saying Dear so and so in letters, it was Illustrious so and so or Illustrious Majesty. At any rate, it would be hard, at times, determine whether the person writing was being honest or not. It doesn't do to diss someone in a very powerful family, even to your friends. You never know who will turn on you or blab.
My next non-fiction read is Friedrich von Hayek's Road to Serfdom.
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I'm reading GROWING UP BIN LADEN; OSAMA'S WIFE AND SON TAKE US INSIDE THEIR SECRET WORLD by Jean Sasson. Very interesting. So far in the book Osama has had 14 children by four wives. What a strange man he was. Kept his homes bare of any "luxuries" like electricity. (Mahammed lived without it, he said). He denied his children toys; he took his sons on long hikes in the desert without water to toughen them up. But he loved to drive fast and bought himself the latest Mercedes-Benz cars for his own pleasure.
Marj
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von Hayek's Road to Serfdom
Now there's a milestone book in the ideological disputes of the 20th century. How did you ever come to this book, Frybabe? Is it still relevant? Keep us posted. I would like to read it along with you. My old copy is somewhere in the house. I'm sure every Cold War veteran read that one.
Bin Laden. What a strange mission he took on. But he went off the track with his Mercedes-Benz. So a camel wasn't fast enough? It was good enough for the Prophet. Running for his life in the end. There are more heroic ways to go.
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Nice to have company Jonathan. I am part way through the introduction. I think I ran across the book being mentioned in Liberal Fascism. Now that was a book I could only read a few paragraphs at a time. Heavy reading. I hope "Serfdom" easier going.
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Of course. I see the connection. The Goldberg book is in the Hayek tradition in which history is at the service of the political partisan. All very interesting and certainly a fantastic workout for ones brain. I found very engaging customer reviews on the AMAZON website. 586 of them at last count. Here's a quote from one of them:
'It should be remembered that one of Hitler's early steps was to introduce full gun control in Germany to reduce any possibility of internal resistance to his regime.'
Scary, isn't it? Historical analysis becomes a weapon.
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Well, Jonathan, I think it pays to know your history. Patton knew his; it helped him win battles.
What scares me is the slow erosion of our freedoms and the increasing entitlements that serve to put people more and more under government control and in the process making people less likely to bite the hand that feeds them.
The other book I've begun to dig into is one on the Ubuntu Linux-based operating system. I reformatted my other computer to strictly Linux. It originally had Windows XP on it which got royally screwed up with Service Pack 3. The first time that happened my BF and the Microsoft tech were able to restore the system. I needed SP3 to run some software I needed for school last fall, so I tried downloading it again. Bad move. Hence, a new machine with Windows 7 installed in a hurry. Surprisingly, I like it.
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Frybabe - here in the Uk, over the past few weeks, it has become increasingly clear that the politicians and the police have been loathe to bite the hand that fed them - ie the press, and especially certain parts of it.
Rosemary
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Pretty much the way it has always gone, isn't it? The more power, the less integrity. Even the
institutions most fiercely guarded, like freedom of the press, can be suborned by those who use
it for personal ends. So, who do you trust?
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Put your trust in the Constitution, Babi.
Wonderful riposte, Rosemary.
Frybabe, do you see a totalitarian threat in technology? Will you be able to extricate yourself? One can't get away from it. That's a loss of freedom.
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Jonathan - I agree, especially where mobile phones are concerned. I know I use mine a lot for texting but I am sure that I managed fine without it before.
We are having to change to a new network owing to our house move - at the weekend we went into the phone shop (horrible) - I had already said that my daughters (and I for that matter - husband's phone is provided through his job) were only getting the minimum price contract, which is perfectly adequate and gives you a choice of about 7 phones, 300 mins and unlimited texts per month. Husband said he was just concerned that our daughters would be derided at school if they didn't have the latest smart phone. I was very pleased when both of them (and the elder one in particular isn't averse to spending other people's money) said that they couldn't care less what people thought, but just wanted a phone that worked. The tyranny of fashion combined with the tyranny of technology takes hold of far too many people.
Rosemary
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Jonathan, I don't think it is the technology itself so much as those who control it that presents a threat.
I don't think this is completely appropriate, but Baron Acton's famous quote about absolute power being corrupting came to mind. Here is the full paragraph from which that famous quote was taken:
"I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption, it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. All power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or certainty of corruption by full authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it." - in a letter to Mandell Creighton dated April 1887.
Creighton had asked Acton to review volumes 3 and 4 of his series The History of the Papacy. Creighton was expecting a good review; instead he got a hostile one. Later Creighton rethought his position and wrote, in a 1895 paper, that the papacy which had been tasked to promote morality in actuality "provided the means for the utmost immorality." (my thanks to Wikipedia, and the person(s) who provided tons of references for the article)
As Rosemarykay noted with her comments about the mobile phones, tyrannical threats come in many forms. Peer pressure is very powerful and useful to control or promote certain behaviors. How these things mushroom into something big is beyond me. However, you can see some of it at work in smoking campaigns, green movements, etc. Fads and fashion are more short lived and unpredictable in length and intensity.
I think I am babbling about now and getting off topic. Time to trot off to see what mind numbing stuff is on TV tonight.
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Peer pressure is one of those dangers that most concerned me when was bringing up my
children. It is one of the reasons I began at early age allowing them to make some choices
and decisions for themselves. I very much wanted them to form the habit of thinking for
themselves and not playing 'follow the leader'. Of course, there was bound to be some backlash
on that for me,...especially with my youngest. ??? On the whole, tho', I believe in the long run it
paid off. My youngest, by the way, is now my companion and help as I grow older.
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My grandson is already complaining that he is the ONLY one in 6th grade (12 years old) that doesn't have a cell phone!! (on careful enquiery, his best friend doesn't have one either).
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Ah, yes, JOAN. The time-honored chant of "Everybody's doing it." And, "I'm the only one who doesn't have _____. :'(
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My reply to the "Everybody..." statement was always, "Name five." :D
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Lord Acton: 'Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility.'
Thanks, Frybabe, for the context for the often quoted 'power corrupts' observation by Lord Acton. I was unfamiliar with that source. Lord A, of course, was a distinguished historian. And that makes him and his colleagues the bar at which everyone has to answer for their actions, eventually!
The king can do no harm. The pope is infallible. The one avoids all lawsuits. The other...well, I'll leave it to the theologians. Thank heavens, for that impeachment clause in the Constitution. Why doesn't the Church have a recall mechanism?
Here's another quote from Lord Acton: 'Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas.'
Can anyone find the source for that? Hayek begins his Introduction with that quote, in his book Road to Serfdom.
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Found it Jonathan. Project Gutenberg has Lord Acton's History of Freedom which includes the review of Sir Erskine May's DEMOCRACY IN EUROPE from whence came the quote. I've just downloaded the text for my Kindle.
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Oh, you're tough, CALLIE. I only demanded they name three. ;)
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"it pays to know your history" - Frybabe
" Historical analysis becomes a weapon." - Jonathan
History. This book, this drama between the Soviet Union and the USA, doesn't necesarily help us to understand or prepare for the future; actually it questions how decisions are made, who makes them, and their outcomes for the world. We came very close to a nuclear war in 1961; can it happen again now that many nations, rather than just two, have atomic weapons? Can they be used as blackmail? Who dominates the world today, is it still the USA, do we still have the power we possessed in 1961. How does the leader of the free world make a decision? Who does he listen to?
Do plan to join our BERLIN 1961 book discussion in September. Read the reviews of the book: "cracklin with tension" - "a world on the edge" - and more at
http://www.amazon.com/Berlin-1961-Frederick-Kempe/dp/0399157298/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311949520&sr=1-1
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At the library book sale last spring i picked up a book that i've been " reading at" every once in a while. It's title is "Man is a Weaver" by Elizabeth Chesley Baity, published in 1946. It gives a history of spinning and weaving from ancient times to the 20th century. I pick it up irregularly and read the bits and pieces it gives about those topics. I like to read those kind of querky pie es of history.
A quote from the book: "in 216 b.c. the (Roman) senate passed a law forbidding the wearing of colored clothes and limiting the amount of gold used on costumes. In a.d. 16 another law forbade men to wear silks. ...... Nero ...seldom wore the same garment twice. One rich woman boasted of 273 chests of silk garments, 410 of linen, and 160 of fabrics brocaded in gold and jewels. An empress was buried (around a.d. 400) in cloth of gold that, when melted down in A.D. 1544, is said to have yeilded 36 pounds of gold."
Don't ask! I don't know, but i hope she was no longer in the dress when they melted it down, or who did it! ???
Jean
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'Do we still have the power we possessed in 1961?'
Good question, Ella. Would it be any kind of answer to say that the U.S. is now both stronger and weaker? The Cold War proved to be too costly for the Soviet Union. Years from now will the historian say that the U.S. also was exhausted by that 'war'? Communism was defeated. Can the U.S. survive the excesses of Capitalism? What kind of future is there in debt management?
Thanks for the reference, Frybabe. Is the Lord Acton quote going to have you reexamining your cherished ideas, wondering about their parentage?
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Lord Acton: 'Few discoveries are more irritating than those which expose the pedigree of ideas.'
Is the Lord Acton quote going to have you reexamining your cherished ideas, wondering about their parentage?
Oh, I don't think so in most cases, Jonathan. I say I don't think so simply because I know I am not going to look up the context of every quote or sound bite I run across. There are way too many, especially these days. It is, however, nice to run across the context from which a quote is taken. In the case of the power corrupts quote, knowing the context really doesn't change its impact. It is a truism (is that the word I want?) that covers many more areas than Pope and King. In other cases the context does matter. One quote taken out of context can cause all kinds of problems for businesses or products, and people. I really do get irritated with the media when I discover they have taken things out of context. They seem to do it often.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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If you missed CSPAN's documentary on the Library of Congress, you may want to check out this link. It's beautifully done, a glorious video and explanation if the paintings in the great hall. (i think Congress should be taken by the hand to be taught about the paintings on the " failures" of gov't - anarchy and "legislative corruption". And then what happens when gov't is working) .
Then there is the behind-the-scenes story of how many years it would take you to look at the books, maps and pictures if you did it at one every minute! It's such a beautiful building and i think many people miss it on their tours of Washington.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/TheLibra
Reminds us of some of the wonderful amenities a federal govt can provide besides defending us from foreign enemies.
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Oh, I'm so sorry I missed that! I LOVE the Library of Congress -- I lived there when I was a graduate student. I wasn't supposed to go into the stacks, except to my own little shelf, but I found that if I looked like I knew what I was doing, no one would question me, and I would wander there for hours. Of course, I got lost a few times, and had visions of wandering forever, like a ghost.
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Thanks for posting that link, Jean - I thought I had recorded the program, but I goofed, and got something else. Now we can watch it online!
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THANK YOU, JEAN! Marvelous, I must watch all of it at another time; imagine if you spent one minute on each photo in that Library it would take you 24 years to see them all.
NOW, JOANK, how many did you see while you were wandering?
Such a beautiful building and to think we are the only country in the world that has had its beginning in a time of print. What a treasurse!
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Is the old card catalogue still there at the L of C? Wasn't it fun to use? All done up in that beautiful penmanship. 'Library hand' they called it. A skill that was taught in library schools.
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Glad you are all enjoying it. I looked to see if we could get it ondemand, but alas, i don't see CSPAN on their list.
Watching "Engineering an Empire" love this show!
Jean
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ELLA: a few!
The catelog was still there when I used it, but that was quite a while ago. I'll bet it's gone, now.
I'm sure we all know it was Thomas Jefferson who started the LOC by donating his library. I'm reading a book now where Jefferson and his love of learning and science plays an important part It's "A Professor, A President, and a Meteor" by Shaw. In 1807, a meteor fell in a Connecticut town, and a professor (Benjamin Silliman) from nearby Yale University started scientific observations to study the pieces and the event. The author claimed that this was the start of scientific research in the fledgling US. The president in the title is Jefferson, I haven't gotten far enough to see how he's going to come into it. But his love of and appreciation for science are well known.
Unfortunately the writing is poor, disorganized, VERY repititious, full of vague or misleading science. But an easy read, and very skimmable, full of interesting facts. Worth skimming through (to me anyway) I hadn't realized to what an extent religion and science were seen as enemies at that point (nothing to do with Darwin). Nor to what an extent the religious new Englanders hated jefferson because they thought he was an atheist (your wives and children won't be safe if he is elected!). Silliman's research on meteors was accepted partly because he was deeply religious, and always framed his results in religious terms.
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I watched the CSpan program on the Library of Congress online this afternoon. It was great! Thanks for posting the link.
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Maryz - Hope you are healing.
I dropped this in the Library discussion board but didn't get any response. So I thought I would drop it here too. Thanks.
"I meant to ask ..... while looking through an Australian book site yesterday, www.readings.com.au, I came across a "must read" book, for me at least. It is called "The Rug Maker of Mazar-i-Sharif" and with the help of another writer a young Hazara man has told of the loss of many family members first at the hands of the Mujaheddin and then the Taliban. Najaf finally came to Australia as a refugee on a boat. I have already mentioned that I have taught a lot of Hazara refugees. They are the sweetest people. Has anyone here heard of the book?
"The Kite Runner" was lauded internationally, but to me it is mostly sensationalism, as the author for one, is not an Hazara, and tends only see and depict them as victims with no dignity from his rather lofty tribal perch; and for another he has lived in US for the last 20 or so years. He wrote the book from a very biassed point of view, in this case the Pashtun viewpoint"
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Thanks for the good wishes, roshanarose. I'm feeling better today.
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Roshanarose, I think I heard of the title before somewhere, but never read the book. I looked up review comments about it. They appear to be all over the map as to whether the book is good or not. I don't think it has been published in the US or it was a small printing. There seem to be some Large Print used books available somewhere.
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I know nothing about the "Rug Maker..", ROSHANA, but I have to agree that I didn't
find "Kite Runner" all that great. I frequently found the author's attitudes and
viewpoints a bit hard to take.
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The "Rug Maker of Mazar-I-Sharif" has arrived at the Library and is waiting for me to pick it up. I don't feel so good today - bad dreams.
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Roshanarose - I am coincidentally feeling the same - bad dreams and poor sleep. Our weather has been appalling for the past 2 days, I don't know if it's the rain/wind or all the bad news in the world getting to me! Also my daughter is away to her first music festival (as in camping in mud, several 100 miles away), so I doubt if I will sleep well till she gets back. I hope you feel better soon.
Went with FIL to several bookshops in (very wet) Ambleside yesterday - whilst waiting for Madeleine and MIL to see Harry Potter. Unfortunately whole place packed with wet tourists trying to think of somewhere to go - the Lake District is like that, great if it's fine, miserable if it's not - but I did buy a beautiful "remaindered" book about garden wildlife, with excellent photographs of birds, butterflies, wildflowers, even slugs and snails, and a lot of advice on how to garden for wildlife - and especially importantly for me at the moment, how to make your pond wildlife friendly. We have inherited a very small pond with our new house, and having never had one before I am not at all sure what to do about it.
Of course, with 30+ boxes of books to accommodate heaven knows where, I need a new book like the proverbial fish needs the bicycle, and I'll have to hide it from my husband when I go home ;D
Rosemary
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Hadn't heard the 'fish needs a bicycle' one before, ROSEMARY. Gave me a good
grin for the morning. Do let us know what you do with the pond. Is it a natural
pond or one in a concrete basin? I can well imagine what a lovely feature that
could be.
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Have you always wondered why there's so much fuss about the ancient Greeks and Romans? Or have you read some of them but have no one to talk about it with? Come join us and vote on which of these old masterpieces YOU would like to read and discuss in October.
Look at the list and discussion here: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2395.40
Vote here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CRGVGSH
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JoanK - Great to see you promoting our group. I know it will be fascinating whatever we choose, but I am barracking for Plutarch (or Suetonius???).
I am presently reading about another kind of god. A Rock God. I am reading "Life" by Keith Richards. Interesting so far, but written more for the guitar aficionados and R & B freaks, but I think his focus will change. He adores Chuck Berry, his main and lasting influence. Keef is around about my age so I can relate on some levels, particularly to the burgeoning R & R/R & B scene in the US (and the UK). Keef even mentions Bobby Goldsboro as helping him with some difficult chords. Remember Bobby?
Rosemary - Thanks for your good wishes. Before I went to sleep the next night I had a very stern talk to myself about the person who was bedeviling my dreams, performing some sort of exorcism I suppose, although the man is by no means evil. How pleased I am to report that I haven't dreamed about him since. Mind over dreams, difficult, but sometimes it works. Do you have any tadpoles to put in your pond, or is it too cold?
About to go to the dentist. Happy Days !!
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New pond is tiny and man made - a sort of liner in a concrete base. When we viewed the house it had fish in it but I think the last owner must have taken them with him (probably best for the fish!). No tadpoles at this time of year, but I will hope to get some frog spawn next year. I must say the garden is looking quite good (no thanks to me - the last owner worked wonders), lots of things in flower, and plums and apples ripening on the trees.
Roshanarose - Anna is back now, so at least I don't have to worry about her, but still not sleeping well. I will try your exorcism method.
Rosemary
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Your own fruit trees! How marvelous. I tried a couple of fruit trees in my old
neighborhood, but unfortunately they did not thrive. I believe we were too close
to the industry along the ship channel for fruit trees to survive for very long.
I wonder if snails would help keep an outdoor pond clean, the way they do
aquariums. Have no idea; never had a pond.
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When we moved in here, we inherited a fountain, complete with two smiling cherubs and a dish to hold the water. Not my taste at all, but it's so funny (it's designed so it looks like the boy cherub is responsible for the stream of water-- not what the designers intended, I'm sure) that I've kept it. Anyway, I'm not sure how to get rid of it. We don't run it, but rainwater gets in, and black stuff accumulates. I'm worried about birds trying to drink from it (although they don't seem to). How do I keep it clean?
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Scrub brush? Actually, I'd probably go on the net looking for "How to care for
a fountain." Not that running a fountain is very practical in times of drought, but
the tinkle of running water can be so restful when the weather cooperates.
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My summer reading is at an end, I'm afraid. Classes start tonight. I have, however, started a volume (apparently Vol. 2 of a 10 volume series, all about women) called Roman Women by Rev. Alfred Brittain, dated 1907. Free e-book from Gutenberg. I keep in mind that at least some of what he wrote has been updated with new information and discoveries by others since then.
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Just got a book from the library about the first woman to circumnavigate the globe (in the 1500, disguised as a boy. How could you get away with that in the close quarters of a ship?). I'll report on it when I read it.
Meanwhile, read a book "The Atlantic" about the Atlantic Ocean by Simon Winchester, the author of "The Professor and the Madman". I found it like the latter book: the style is irretating, vague and rambling at times, but he knows a good story when he sees it.
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JoanK - Women sailors - as intrepid as Russell Crowe!
Here is a link about some Australian women sailors, not detailed, but just to give you an idea. And then, of course, there is our young intrepid sailor, Jessica Watson. I think Kay Cottee and Jessica Watson have written books about their experiences. Jessica's book is called "True Spirit" will be released 29 August, 2011.
www.wisenet-australia.org/ISSUE41/waves2.htm
JoanK - I read "The Surgeon of Crowthorne" by Simon Winchester. I enjoyed it very much. I have "Krakatoa" waiting TBR in my bookshelf.
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I had/read a book titled "Krakatoa, east of Java". I wonder if it's the same book. I also
wonder what happpened to it. It must have been one of those I passed on when we moved
out of that big house.
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An FYI for you. Thought you'd be glad to hear - Bill Moyers and his wife will have a new series on PBS this fall .....YEA!
From my History News Network
http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/141338.html
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oops! Misinformation.....the program will be in January, not the fall. We can anticipate it for a while longer.... :D
But they have a new book that can carry us over til January.
http://hnn.us/articles/8-22-11/bill-moyers-and-robin-lindley-talk-about-america.html
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jean, thanks for that wonderful news. I love Bill Moyers!
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Babi - do you remember the film of the same name "Krakatoa East of Java"? -it was very good. I saw it years and years ago and I still remember it vividly - one of the things that stays in my mind is the pearl divers leaping into the sea to escape. Much more recently a new dramatisation of the eruption was broadcast here - Krakatoa - The Last Days - it was excellent. One of the main characters was the Dutch governor's wife - the programme was based on her diaries I think- she wanted to leave the island, but her husband felt he should stay with the people. As a result they were there when the volcano blew. She and her family rushed inland with many other people, but they were chased by a wall of fire. She and her two older children escaped, but her baby died in its ayah's arms - it was so sad. Apparently she did stay there afterwards.
Rosemary
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Babi and Rosemary - Quite ironic that we are discussing volcanoes when an earthquake has just hit the States. I do hope everyone and their families are well. I have a theory that natural disasters often occur in August. For example, it is my brother's birthday today ::)
The title of the book is "Krakatoa - The Day the World Exploded 27 August 1883" and it is by Simon Winchester. ISBN 0-670-91126-7. As I said I haven't read it yet. In comparison Thera (Santorini) blew apart in ancient times, volcanologists have said that that eruption had three times the power of Krakatoa. To go there now, well, it is truly an awesome place.
www.greeka.com/cyclades/santorini/santorini-history.htm
www.history1800s.about.com/od/thegildedage/a/krakatoa.htm
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Yes, I remember the movie as well - remember them running and the husband wore white pants and shirt and yes, the baby dies after they reach safety. I am remembering the effort in the movie to show running folks being swallowed up by the rushing waters and that wall of fire. And then doesn't it rain or maybe it was the volcano ash - I sorta remember the running up the mountain was hindered by wind and rain or was it the affects of the volcano - can you remember Rosemary? I am not remembering any older children and maybe I am remembering another movie.
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No, ROSEMARY, I barely remember here was ;D a film. I wonder if I could still find it?
You never know what Netflix might have. Or they might have the new dramatisation you
describe. You have to wonder what must have been in the minds and hearts of those who
stayed afterwards.
I was looking at commentary on the film. It won an award for Best Special Effects, but
some reviewers referred to it as a "muddled disaster flick". Ah, well; I'd still be
interested in seeing it.
Tch, tch, ROSHANA. He can't be that bad. ;D
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Babi - Actually he is a sweetie in most ways. But he holds very strong prejudices about two things I like. My only real prejudice is against the Taliban. Jim and his wife have just returned from the US - their favourite holiday destination - and sailed through the Panama Canal. Very exciting, he said. They have their likes and dislikes about the US. Jim (my brother) loves N'Orleans and his wife just HAD to visit Dallas. Why? Yep. You guessed it. That ranch.... They didn't like Houston because it had no public transport to speak of, well not that they were aware of, anyway.
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Houston does have public transport, but it has had a great many problems, and
the residents in general have not been too happy with it. The city does have some
fine museums and restaurants, though, most of them grouped conveniently close
together. New Orleans, however, is hard to beat for sheer charm.
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I have a theory that natural disasters often occur in August. For example, it is my brother's birthday today
Roshanarose - Hey there! My birthday is in August too! I'm not that bad but I do know my brothers considered me a natural disaster if not in those words. :D
Thanks for posting about the Aussie women sailors - there really are plenty of them perhaps not all in headline making ways. A one time girlfriend of my son's used to sail single handedly here there and everywhere - she never took on a round the world but she sailed across to South Africa and back which was quite far enough for me to deal with - we were one of her contact points and I used to be afraid to leave the house in case we weren't there when she needed us.
Kay Cottee is a woman of many talents - she also paints and has done some fabulous work depicting her voyages etc.
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Pat an I are August birthdays too: have to ask our kids if we are natural disasters.
Last day to vote on which classic to read next.
VOTE HERE http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2395.80 (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2395.80)
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I've just started what looks like an intriguing book. Ted Kopple's "Off Camera: private thoughts made public". He kept a diary of 1999 - remember the time of the impeachment trial and other very interesting things happening? He writes in the same friendly, low key, witty style that i liked in his tv program.
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My daughter Valerie was an August baby, too. I don't know if the birthdate had
anything to do it, but she was/is noted for her stubbornness. ::) However, she is
highly intelligent and has matured enough to know when to let go. She was also one of
those children for whom physical discipline, like spanking, did not work. It only made her
angry. Was that true of any of our August belles here?
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Babi H'mmm... the 'highly intelligent' and 'mature' epithets certainly fit :D
Can't say I'm noted for being stubborn but do like my own way and often persist in getting it - but that's not being stubborn is it?
Can only remember being spanked once - by my aunt in whose care I was when younger brother was born - and sure it made me angry because it was unwarranted and unfair - I hated that aunt ever after. My mother had other, more effective disciplinary methods.
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Me, stubborn? I absolutely insist I'm not, no matter what anyone says. ;)
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------My - What have I started? All the august Augustans have come out. My mother was born in August too, 19th August. She was a Leo and epitomised that sign. A leader - strong and fiery. James is just a Virgo - right on the cusp. I like Virgos, they are smart and not much is missed by their beady eye. They are supposed to be extremely tidy. My ex was Virgo, he had a great brain but was certainly not tidy.
But I thought that you all knew that September and October are the best months to be born :-*
However, in order to grovel my way back into your good books, here is a short list of some famous Leo/Virgo Cuspians:
River Phoenix, Bill Clinton, Elvis Costello, Kobe Bryant, Hayden Panetierre, Billy Ray Cyrus, Coco Chanel and Barbara Eden.
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What about some literary Leos: Here's a dozen - all Leos
Robert Graves, Alexandre Dumas, G.B. Shaw, Andrew Maurios, Aldous Huxley, Emily Bronte, Herman Melville, Percy B Shelley, Alfred Tennyson, Ian Fleming, T.E. Lawrence, Ogden Nash -
and then there are statesmen like Dag Hammarskjold and celebrities like Jacki Kennedy - endless.
I love the latest quote on the headers - I've been trying to get that book - A History of Reading by Alberto Manguel. I borrowed it once from a friend who had borrowed it so could only have it for too short a time. It's rather wonderful and so wide ranging on the history - all sorts of stuff one never imagines.
Please, please everyone stay safe from Irene.
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GUM & JOANK, I do love you gals. :D
Oh, definitely, ROSHANA. I am an October Libran. We are noted for being welll-balanced.
I've often thought I'd make a very poor lawyer; I can always see the other guys point of
view. On the other hand, I'd have made a great judge....I think. :-\
Hmmm....we are in non-fiction, right? Umm, nah,..I still think I'd've made a good judge.
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I am an October Libran
Yeaaaaaa, Babi. Me too.
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Me too! This is getting a little weird, why are so many Librans on here? Huuuummmmm? I also notice that Frybaby and Babi and i often have similar opinions.
Jean
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I just heard a fascinating interview on BookTV. The book is Haunting Legacy, by Marvin Kalb (the journalist) and Deborah Kalb (his daughter). They were interviewed by Ted Koppel. Terrific folks. The book is about how the Vietnam War influenced, and continues to influence, presidents who have served since then. I'm not sure I'll get the book - it's $16.+ on my Kindle, and not available at our library yet. Anyhow, it might be something to check out.
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That's very interesting Mary. I'm going to be presenting another course in the spring at the senior community. This one will be about the 50's,60's and 70's and the impact on the decades following them. I think i need to see that interview or read that book.
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jean, you can probably watch the interview on line.
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I remember after reading "The Merchant of Venice" as a youngster that I wanted to be a lawyer, like Portia. My daughter is a Libran as well. It is uncanny, because we often buy the same lipstick in the same colour quite independently. That is the flippant side of the similarity. There are many other similarities of a more serious and critical nature.
Jean, Frybabe and Babi - Yayyyyy!
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Does make you wonder, doesn't it, JEAN? Like I said, we Librans are well-balanced,
thoughtful, fair-minded.... ::) Feel free to add to the list, all you Librans.
I enjoy the 'BookPage' my library makes available. Not only do I find books I want
to read, but the library is more likely to have them.
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I'm going to be presenting another course next spring at the senior living community to which i presented a women's history course last spring. This one is going to be The Decades of the 50s, 60s and 70s and Their Impact on the Following Decades. I tell you that because i'm probably going to running across interesting tidbits as i bring my research up to date and will pass some aling to you.
I just ran into these lists of books ........ Yes, some more lists of books for you to browse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_years_in_literature
Enjoy, Jean
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I see Stieg Larsson has been leading the parade the last couple of years. The Scandinavian
writers have been quite popular over here lately, haven't they. Why this sudden emergence,
I wonder.
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Why this sudden emergence, I wonder.
Good marketing. Someone saw potential. Here are a few attempts to explain.
http://barbarafister.com/scandcrime.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jan/23/scandinavian-crime-fiction
Could this paragraph from The Guardian also apply to the US? What do you think?
"Scandinavian crime fiction may still be something of a novelty act in the UK, but it's a well-established genre in the rest of Europe, particularly Germany and France. So how come we got left behind? Put it down to that old national weakness for effortless superiority combined with instinctive parochialism. While other European countries are happy to publish roughly 25% of their books in translation, in the UK that figure is nearer 3%. And when you reckon that 3% includes academic and childrens books, that doesn't leave a lot of room for anything else."
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Thanks for those links, FRYBABE. They expressed my own question very well, and gave some
reasonable answers. All of which still does not, for me, overcome the drawback of the dreary
settings and the drearier characters. "To everything there is a season", right?
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"To everything there is a season"
A time for dreariness, and a time for light?
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I have been trying to catch up after several days of limited computer time. Lots being discussed.
I'm also a Libra.
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nlhome - Ah. Another Chosen One.
I hope all you Libras are going to be ready to add your favourite fellow "Libras" around about 23 September. Don't forget Margaret Thatcher ;)
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If only one could..... :)
Rosemary
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:D
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I just started a book that looks as though it's going to be very good. "Franklin and Lucy:Pres R, Mrs Rutherford and the Other Remarkable Women in His Life" by Joseph Persico who wrote a great book on the Nuremberg trials.
He says in the introduction, "The present theme, the women who figured prominently in Roosevelt's life, was prompted by my conviction that their influence was decisive. They formed and reveal him. ........he cannot begin to be understood w/out examining the shaping hand of his mother, wife, one true love and the other women who satisfied FDRs deep seated need for adulation, admiration, approval and respite from the crushing burdens of his office. They provided the oxygen to his soul. To study the man largely through his male associates, however key ........ Yields an imcomplete picture. It is no coincidence that present w/FDR at Warm Springs, Ga on the day he died were three close women companions...........
"The story of FDRs women delves into Eleanor Roosevelt's often perplexing involvements w/ both men and women and how F's conduct as a husband contributed to her behavior. The most extraordinary truth of their marriage is that the greatest man of his time, and arguably the greatest woman of her age, were wedded to each other. History offers nothing comparable........."
His writing is very readable - except for trying to keep all those Roosevelt's, especially the "James," of which there are at least three, straight. I suppose the title was thought up by the publisher, F and L sounds much juicier then The Women in Franklin's Life. Actually the title made me pick it up at the library. But i look forward to reading more about the cousins. I know quite a lot already about the controlling Sara, his mother and of course ER.
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Does Persico bring Frances Perkins into the picture? It would have been No Deal without her.
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It might have been a different world if he had taken her to Yalta with him.
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I think he is focusing on FDR's personal relationships, but that a good question. I'll let you know, so far i'm just at the point where he and ER are about ti get married. Sara, mother, was so appalled at his choice of Eleanor that she asked them to keep their engagement secret for a YEAR and they DID! Was she a powerful mother, or not?
Jean
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Sara, IMO, was pretty appalling herself. :-\
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The Classics Club has a winner! Plutarch "Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans". But our job has just started. We have to pick 4 selections to read in October. Who do you want to get to know better: Caesar? Cleopatra? Cicero? Come help us decide at http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2395.80 (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2395.80)
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Why not add Mark Anthony to the three C's, to make up the Plutarch Quartet. That could supply a plot for the discussion.
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Is that an advertisement - what little French i remember from hi school led me to ask?
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Won't y'all share - even if you do not stay around to chat in Talking Heads it would be so great to have as many of us as possible list our favorites in 20 Questions - it really is a way we get to know each other a bit better -
Here we are http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2510.msg129764#msg129764
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Jean, I ran across someone interesting while looking for something else. Perhaps you have heard of her in your studies?
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/changingthefaceofmedicine/physicians/biography_35.html
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Oh! Yes! Elizabeth Blackwell! When i was pregnant w/ our first child in 1969 i had to stop teaching - the rule was at 4 months, but i lied and stretched that to my 6th month - so i had time on my hands. We lived around the corner from the county library which had a great biography section. I started reading thru the women bios and, of course, EB was close to the beginning.
I frequently tell a piece of her story in class or at women's history presentations because it's interesting how "mavericks" have their own boundaries of what they will do. EB braved being rejected by many med'l schools, not being able to find housing when landlords found out she was going to the med'l school, teasing and harrassment from the male students, dissecting male bodies, and still graduated at the top of her class. However! When it came to graduation she thought it was unseemly for her to walk across the stage to receive her diploma, so she
sat in the front row of the auditorium and her brother went on stage and accepted her
diploma!
That exercise, of reading women's bios, was also when i learned that Jane Addams had received the Nobel Peace Prize!?! I knew all about Hull House and her starting the career field of social work, but had NEVER heard that she and Emily Green Balch were the first American women to get the NPP! Even after i had earned a B.S. degree in history!
Of course, that was because i was in school in the 40s and 50s - Cold War, fear of
communism and communists, and any one in peace movements and international organizations - including the YWCA - were suspected of being too "pink". So their activism in the peace movement was not taught in my history classes.
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Jean, your mention of Blackwell reminds me of our family doctor when I was growing up. Her name was Amelia Frances Foye. She was born in 1871, went to Howard Medical School, having been rejected by other schools here (I'm guessing not for academic reasons). She was their first white female student. Knowing what sort of harassment women med students were subjected to in the 50s, I wonder what she had to face. I like to think she was so much outside the norm that they just accepted her. Certainly by the time I knew her she was a formidably imposing figure, you wouldn't want to mess with her. She continued to practice until her death in 1953, age 82.
How good a doctor was she? From what I remember, very good.
http://books.google.com/books?id=VrsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=amelia+frances+foye&source=bl&ots=N7Llrf9ZTX&sig=eoVD44FDhsZgtrN2HsKdcKiWNI8&hl=en&ei=xNJ7TuC4EdLdiAKa-cSaBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=amelia%20frances%20foye&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=VrsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=amelia+frances+foye&source=bl&ots=N7Llrf9ZTX&sig=eoVD44FDhsZgtrN2HsKdcKiWNI8&hl=en&ei=xNJ7TuC4EdLdiAKa-cSaBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=amelia%20frances%20foye&f=false)
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Thanks for that info Pat. Now i wonder if she was the FIRST woman at Howard, or whether their were African American women their also. I'll have to see what i can find out.
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Mabel: of course Pat and I had the same doctor. She delivered me, so mom gave me Foye as a middle name. I always hated it as a child (was called Joan Fooey), but maybe I should wear it proudly now.
Speaking of Jane Addams, do read her autobiography, if you haven't. It's fascinating! I especially loved her account of her trip to Russia to meet Tolstoy. She came away muttering "I probably SHOULD bake my own bread, but when am I going to find the time." (Of course Count Tolstoy with his estate full of servants, had plenty of time!)
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Now i wonder if she was the FIRST woman at Howard, or whether their were African American women their also. I'll have to see what i can find out.
Jean, if you do find out, tell us; I'd love to know.
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I found the following info at http://medicine.howard.edu/about/history/default.htm
"Howard has also been in the vanguard with regard to the training of women physicians. Over the years, females have been afforded opportunities to study medicine here to a greater extent than at most other U.S. medical colleges. The first female, Mary Spackman, was graduated in 1872. Dr. Spackman, who was white, was born in Maryland. The first black female to graduate was Eunice P. Shadd, Class of 1877, who was from Chatham, Ontario, Canada. The first female teacher was Dr. Isabel C. Barrows, a graduate of Woman’s Medical College of Philadelphia. During 1870-73, she lectured at Howard on diseases of the eyes and ears."
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Marcie - thank you for researching that and finding the answer to my question.
Joan - i haven't read JA's autobio. I will look for that, maybe it's in google books.
Jean
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I'm listening to "1491" by Charles Mann on tape. I'm very impressed with the reader who is doing a fantastic job of pronoucing all those multiple-syllabic Incan, Mayan and Mexican names. And he must do it over and over. :D I see the author is going to be on Booktv at 10:00pm On Sunday with his new book "1493". Huuuh, wonder what will be different since much of what he is talking about in "1491" is the impact on Native Americans of the coming of the Europeans. He is also stressing how much more sophisticated they were than what we've been taught. "Mexico City" - i won't even attempt to spell the name it was before 1492 - was the largest city in the world and had more paved roads which were swept clean, as opposed to the filth of London's city streets. He also discusses the controversy over how many NA's were in the western hemisphere, ranging from sev'l 10's of millions to over 100million, many of whom had died of "eastern" diseases even before 1492, because of contacts w/ Europeans outside the hemisphere and how easily the diseases could sweep thru non-immuned protective peoples.
Some of it is very interesting, but i have fast forwarded thru some parts that have bored me with battles and organization of various groups and villages that combined then into a large civilization in both Mexico and South America. I'm hoping he talks as thoroughly about NA's in North America. There are 11 tapes.
Jean
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Jean, the program with Mann is also going to be on BookTV at 3 p.m.ET on Saturday and 6 a.m.ET on Sunday morning. Other good stuff on BookTV this weekend, too.
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JoanK - i did find Jane Addams's autobio on the U of Pennsylvania site of free books!! Bookmarked it and will get back to it. Here's the site if anyone else wants to look at it.
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/addams/hullhouse/hullhouse.html
Jean
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JEAN: hope you enjoy it.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I recorded yesterday and just watched the BookTV interview with the author of 1493. Sounds like a book I'll probably get - so I'll need to get 1491, too. ::)
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Dates are popular as titles nowadays. Saw 1861 on the library new book shelf.
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Found another great site for those of us who are knowledge, and/ or history, addicts.
http://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/History/American-History#self
This is the "free stuff" history site. There are 1000's of other categories in many diiferent issues and for both free and paid. Go to learnoutloud home site. On this history site, if you go to about page 36 of the lists they begin a lot of interviews of authors and many of the In Depth shows from CSPAN.
Enjoy! I consider them a great procrastination against housework. ;D
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Yes, and here is another that gathers live video from university lectures, debates and other live events.
http://fora.tv/2009/12/08/Chris_Hedges_Empire_of_Illusion#fullprogram
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I think this is the correct category for "The Red Queen" by Phillipa Gregory. For some reason, I know not what, I have been putting off reading about the Plantagenet and Lancaster dynasties and the dire doings of Richard III. What a treat awaited me with Margaret Beaufort, the "Red Queen", the politics and doings of royalty of that time are only rivalled by the Romans! Just the hint of a conspiracy and the lord and ladies of the land all seem to be privy to it at the same moment. I have nearly finished this book. I recommend it highly.
I believe that the book "The White Queen" about the notorious Elizabeth Woodville was the forerunner to "The Red Queen". but no matter as I am sure it is just as interesting as "The Red Queen".
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I remember reading a fictionalized version of the Elizabeth Woodville story. Probably not all that
accurate, but as I remember she was 'notorious' mainly because she was of inferior rank to have
made the prestigious marriage she did, putting a great many noses out of joint.
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I just received an email about Learnoutloud and have already started on one of the global histories in it with Cathy someone who is a delight to listen to. Now my next trick will be to figure out how to transfer this to my iPod so I can take it to bed and listen before dropping off to sleep.
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Babi - It is true that Gregory doesn't write with the same attention to fact as say Alison Weir, but the Red Queen was very readable. Evidently White Queen and Red Queen are not in a series as such, but more like contemporary characters whose stories are written about in some detail. This technique fills in many viewpoints that may otherwise be missed. Philippa Gregory, herself, admits that her books are not written strictly according to fact, but are often embellished, unlike, as I mentioned, Alison Weir's.
Which do I prefer? I enjoy both authors as they bring English history to life in their own manner.
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Allison Weir, "The Other Boleyn Girl" and "Mary Boleyn" interview on NPR
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/12/141276812/mary-the-great-and-infamous-other-boleyn
Anna - what is the name of the history you are listening too from LearnOL? The Pre World History from UCSD caught my eye at the bottom of the UCSD list in this week's newsletter, is that it?
Jean
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I did enjoy the Philippa Gregory books I read. I don't believe I've read any
of Alison Weir's work.
The UCSD...is that a on-line college site? I've toyed with the idea once of
twice of taking an on-line class somewhere, but generally decided I could read
about a subject if I wanted to, without the expense of a course fee.
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Babi there are all kinds of free "education" sites online, i love them, here are 3 i like:
The first one speaks for itself in his url
http://www.learnerstv.com/Free-History-video-lecture-courses.htm
This has lectures and info from the Library of Congress, not courses, just presentations.
http://search.loc.gov:8765/webcasts/query.html?sc=0&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&nh=10&lk=1&rf=0&oq=&si=0&rq=0&qc=&qt=Americans+in+paris&col=webcasts
Learnoutloud is the one that has U of Ca @ San Deigo and other actual college courses.
http://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video
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This is one I have bookmarked. One of these days I must really get back to finishing the Roman Architecture lecture series. I stopped when I started back to school and never got around to finishing it. Shame on me for not finishing it over this past summer.
http://www.academicearth.org/
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Yes, i'm listening to the Modern Civ course from UCLA.....iT takes some patience to just sit and listen or watch, i usually knit while doing so....... Jean
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JEAN, thank you for the urls. I will look forward to learning morel
Sheila
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Ah, JEAN, thank you for going to so much trouble. I only wish I could
use those links. What I forgot when talking about online studies is that
all of them seem to feature video lectures, and none of them provide closed
captioning. I suppose that would be a great deal to ask.
The only 'at-home' study I've ever participated in, with great pleasure,
was by mail. They sent written material and assignments; I did the assignments
and mailed them back. Slow, and so out-of-date now.
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Babi - that sounds like heaven compared to what i am now having to do for the Open University course - everything has to be submitted electronically via their website, and last time it took me longer to 'format' it all than it did to write it. I would so much prefer to print it onto a sheet of paper and post it, but they only allow that 'in special circumstances' and I doubt if middle-aged resistance to technology would count!
Rosemary
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;D
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Rosemary, I really laughed at the thought of your using "middle age resistance to technology" as an excuse. I really sympathize with you. Don't know whether I could handle it.
But I remember so well having to type (on a typewriter) papers several pages long. One time I had to stay up all night in order to re-type something where I'd omitted a couple of paragraphs. What a drag. And I had a rough time staying awake at work the next day.
Also remember having to add long columns of numbers and do other mathematical calculations in my head for tests in my bookkeeping and finance classes. (before pocket calculators were invented)
Marj
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Marj, I too think back to those days without the electronics we have now. I remember typing and retyping and retyping my husband's thesis for his masters degree as all the input from his advisors came in, not to mention helping him keypunch all the data. He had to draw all his graphs, etc. using a special tool. This year my son did his thesis, was able to electronically send it for review, then edit and re-edit and produce the final copy so easily. Of course, the fieldwork was just as involved, but the compiling and typing and editing was so much quicker for him.
Of course, we wouldn't have the convolutions of Medicare Part D if it weren't for computers, either....
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When i teach about women's history, or the 50s, or the Civil Rts movement, i mention the Woman's Political Council in Montgomery Ala, who MIMEOGRAPHED 40,000 flyers overnight to tell Blacks to stay off the buses after Rosa Parks was arrested! Do you remember the purple ink? Can you imagine what their hands and clothes looked like in the morning?
Also i like to tell people about Ada Byron Lovelace, lord Byron's dgt, altho they never knew each other, who was a brilliant mathematician. At 17 she met another brilliant Renaissance man, Charles Babbage, who was working on an "analytical engine". They had a voluminous correspondence. She is credited w/ stating the first algorithm to be used specifically for computer calculations and she is therefore considered the first computer programmer. In her notes is a statement about how the enhancement she suggested could not just do mathematical calculations, but could be used for music, art and other aspects of life.
Of course the engine was not made and used during her lifetime, she died in the mid-19th century, but the Dept of Defense recognized her contribution to computer history by naming the "language" they use ADA.
More about "the first programmer" ......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace
I always say "technology is womderful, when it works" .......otherwise it's very frustrating!
Jean
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Jean
My daughter read a children's book about her a while ago and enjoyed it. I haven't read it myself, but this is a link to it:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ada-Lovelace-Computer-Victorian-England/dp/1904095763
Rosemary
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I think we have discussed her before. Right?
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I love stories about Lovelace. At one time, I was able to get a copy of her computer "program" and decided that it had "bugs" in it. But she never got a chance to "debug" it, since Babbage never finished his computer. Every great inventor needs a great engineer to carry out his ideas, and Babbage never found his. Later, a Swedish scientist built a model of Babbages computer, but I don't know if anyone has ver tried to "run" Lovelace's program. Unfortunately, she died young.
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Let's face it folks. If all our modern technology ever collapses, those who can
cook and bake from scratch, make cloth and leather, and grow food like great-granddad did, will be our most valuable resources. We'll protect them with our lives!
JEAN, I love those little gems you give us. I have never heard of many of the women
you bring to our attention, and the things they have accomplished. It always gives
me a boost to know they are finally being acknowledged.
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Let's face it folks. If all our modern technology ever collapses, those who can
cook and bake from scratch, make cloth and leather, and grow food like great-granddad did, will be our most valuable resources. We'll protect them with our lives!
Babi, you just reminded me of a comment I heard on a program I watched/heard a month or two ago. The commentator who was talking to a fellow who runs an apparel manufacturing place (in Oregon, I think) observed that most of the sewing machine operators were Asian. The manager replied that was because they are still taught sewing skills in school in Asia whereas here, we are not. HomeEc, here, is a thing of the past. I don't think Mansfield University has had their college level Home Economics courses for some time now either.
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OMG, Nihome, I'd forgotten the class I took where I had to keypunch cards and then turn them in to be printed, and hope after all that keypunching that my program worked. Often it didn't, and I had to figure out where I'd goofed and start all over again. Aaagh...
And yes, Mabel, I remember that awful purple ink on those mimeograph machines. (Interesting about the printing of 40,000 flyers to warn black people to boycott the busses.)
Thank goodness for our modern machines. And thank goodness for my son who is a computer genius and helps me when things go wrong.
Marj
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My son is super-intelligent as well, ..always has been. That doesn't mean he
has any kind of rapport with machinery. Definitely NOT one of those guys who can fix anything. Nowadays, every family could use a good computer
geek and techie nerd...our heroes of tomorrow! :D
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Babi - my friend's son is posted in Afghanistan, and in order to find out how to use her DVD player, she had to take a photo of the controls and send it to him, asking him to call her and talk her through it!
Rosemary
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Rosemary, that story about the DVD player made me laugh.
Whenever I have to disconnect my computer and its various parts, I take photos of everything, print them and mark them so I know how to reconstruct my set up. My son can come along, toss the pictures and put it all together is 2 minutes.
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I seem to absorb better reading than listening. Generally, I can follow a
manual and figure something out, if it's not so abstruse I don't even know what they're referring to. Actually, I find it maddening if someone
insists on 'explaining' something instead of letting me read the instructions.
Let me read it first, then ask any questions I may have. (That has become much less of a problem since I became deaf. ;D )
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I'm starting 1493 (read 1491 about 4 months ago) . Just 50 pages in, i think i'll recommend it to our book group. It's 400 pages, but we could do it in 2 sessions of 200 pages each. We're a chatty group and will have plenty to say, so one session will not do it. The book divides nicely at that point. We might want to think about it for our book discussion here. I'll give you some bits and pieces as i go along, but not right now, the book is upstairs by my bed..... ???.... And lord knows i can't remember any quotes at this age!
I can tell you he's going to talk alot about the Columbian exchange of foods and the consequences of more than just people having something new to eat.
I think my first question would be "what do you remember learning about Columbus and how was the situation of the two worlds coming together presented to you?"
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Jean, I'm about 25% into 1491, and really enjoying it (on the Kindle). I've gotten 1493 also. Fascinating stuff - and learning a lot I didn't know.
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I love your profile quote from Hubbard MARYZ. I think everyone is entitled to be a d--- fool
occasionally; I just hate to be one publicly. ::)
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From The History Channel's daily history:
On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II makes perhaps the most influential speech of the Middle Ages, giving rise to the Crusades by calling all Christians in Europe to war against Muslims in order to reclaim the Holy Land, with a cry of "Deus vult!" or "God wills it!"
[]
One answer as to why we should study history......... guess we're still getting our comeuppence from that speech!
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I am in the mood to read a biography. Haven't decided which to pick up. Lots of choices sitting in my TBR piles and on the shelves: Lafayette, one about his wife, Champlain, Lord Nelson, Gertrude Bell, Winston Churchill, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, and more.
I am waiting on a book to arrive next week called Into the American Woods: Negotiations on the Pennsylvania Frontier, by James H. Merrell. Merrell in an award winning scholar on American Indian history. It looks like he focuses on Indian/Colonist interactions and negotiations, mostly here in the East. His latest book is about the Lancaster Treaty of 1744.
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I've always thought Lord Nelson was an interesting person, and Winston
Churchill as well. I love the examples of his wit I've run across in my reading.
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My current nonfiction read is The Ripple Effect by Alex Prud'homme. It's not about a person, but a thing - water. Prud'homme looks at the stat of our water resources and includes water quality, flood, drought, and what we might expect in the future. http://www.alexprudhomme.com/books/the-ripple-effect/ What Mr. Prud'homme doesn't tell you in his bio is that Julia Child is his great aunt through Paul Child's side of the family.
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Fry: that sounds interesting.
When I looked it up on Amazon, I also got "The Ripple Effect: How Better Sex can ....." Ohhkaaay.
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:o ;D
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New to this site, but love good nonfiction. Currently "The Swerve" by Greenblatt - how an ancient book, rediscovered in the 15th century kicked off the Renaissance, and changed civilization. Fascinating. Now I wish I had stuck with the Latin!
De Rerum Natura (On the Nature of Things) is the book, a long poem by Lucretius. sounds deadly, doesn't it? But it really is highly readable, thanks to Professor Greenblatt.
Just finished "In the Garden of Beasts" and like it, althought not as much as Erik Larsen's "Devil in the White City" Hitler's consolidation of power and his methods of instiling fear in people help me to understand how the most literate and liberal society of Europe went so crazy.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I think one of the major national characteristics of the Germans was always
a high respect for authority and an early instilled habit of obedience. This did
make them vulnerable to leaders such as Hitler, I believe. He used that
authority, as BELLEMERE says, to instill fear while at the same time appealing
to their national pride and sense of injury from the aftermath of WWI. I
believe it took a while for the general public to realize what was happening, and by then it was far too late.
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Bellemere: The Swerve sounds absolutely fascinating!
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I got the swerve on kindle, and it is fascinating. His thesis sounded fishy to me (that finding this old Roman manuscript turned renaissance thought in a new direction), and reading the reviews of the book, I was not surprised that scholarly reviews do not agree with him, or think he is really exaggerating. But the book goes over so many topics that I find interesting, from how papyrus is made to why the monks kept these old manuscripts to .... (and that's just at the beginning of the book).
I hope as the book goes on that he quotes more of the manuscript. Part of the scholarly hoo-hah seems to be based on whether you like the opinions expressed therein.
The
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"Swerve" does sound interesting. Considering the present budget cuts, tho',
I doubt very much that my library will pick up a book that probably would not
have a very wide public appeal. The local college might, but they don't allow
the public to use their books.
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Joan K., the philosophy of Epicurus is made easily understandable by Alan de Botton, the English writer in "Consolations of Philosophy". It's a little paperback that also discusses other schools, each exemplified by a person in history. For example, Stoicism is portrayed in the life and deathe of Seneca.
Philosophy is interesting to me, except through the primary sources. I need an interpreter, and deBotton is the best vi have found.
Much of the Swerve is speculation about the real discovery of the poem of lucretius, but even the extrapolations and digressions are made interesting by the author. Can understand the negativism in some of the reviews; Academics thrive on picking at one another.
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Exactly, and "Swerve" steps on both academic toes and religious toes.
I'm usually on the side of not speculating too far. But in this case, I'm interested in what he has to say about the history of books and can take his thesis with a large grain of salt.
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One of the best things about maturity, I think, JOANK, is we are able to bring
a questioning, if not critical, mind to what we read. It is so easy for a young
person to be influenced by another's viewpoint, without having the experience or having developed the judgment to realize the writer/speaker could be wrong.
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I'm getting ready to read "The Wamrth of Other Suns", the story of the Black migration from the South to the north in the 20th century. I didn't realize it was such a big book when i heard about it. I will have to read it while sittong in my lounge chair or i'll aggravate my trigger thumb. Has anybody read it?
Jean
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Haven't read that book, jean, but that's the kind of book I'd read on my Kindle. And that's exactly why I got a Kindle in the first place - I was having trouble holding any book, even paperbacks.
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I just finished watching a two hour presentation about Oliver Cromwell and his Irish campaign. According to the narrator it set the stage for so much of what came afterward, including the consolidation of Ireland, Scotland and England into the United Kingdom which in turn generated enough clout to become the mighty British Empire. There were also comments about his actions influencing the colonies here and the wording in the Declaration of Independence. What I am most interested in is the comment that he trained what became known as "the new model army". I'd like to find out what made it new and modern. The way it was trained, and or paid for? New innovations in weapons technology? Anyhow, I am off to find a book about Cromwell. Most I ever know about him before was that he and the King had a major disagreement. The King lost - at least until Cromwell died. The program did not paint him as quite the ogre that I remember him as.
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Aha, I found several promising book on Oliver Cromwell, and I also believe I may have him and Thomas Cromwell muddled. I hope to rectify that situation. Teddy Roosevelt wrote a book on Cromwell which made comparisons to Cromwell's campaigns and the American Revolution and Civil War. There is actually one devoted to his "new model army", one devoted to his campaign at Dunbar, and several biographies.
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Frybabe - I am woefully ignorant about all of this, but is that the Dunbar that is near here (on the coast east of North Berwick?) I have been there a couple of times for shopping, but needless to say I haven't a clue about the history. There is an amazing castle on the coast between here and Dunbar; Tantallon:
http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/propertyresults/propertyoverview.htm?PropID=pl_284&PropName=Tantallon%20Castle
Rosemary
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What a magnificent location! I can see how such a stronghold could withstand three sieges. And such a wild and lovely landscape. I do wonder
what it's like when the flowers are blooming.
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Yes, indeed it is Rosemarykaye. Charles II cut Cromwell's Irish campaign short and sent him to Scotland to put down the growing rebellion there precipitated by the execution of Charles I. http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/military/1650-dunbar.htm
Oliver Cromwell: http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/biog/oliver-cromwell.htm Cromwell's son-in-law, Henry Ireton, was given command in Ireland to finish the Irish campaign when he left.
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Thanks Frybabe - when it gets a bit warmer I will go and have a look around.
Babi - the road follows the coastline more or less all the way from North Berwick to Dunbar - it is very dramatic, and in summer very beautiful. in the winter is it wild, and I would not choose to drive it in gales or blizzards (there are alternative, longer, routes inland).
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How beautiful that castle is! Until the introduction of guns it was virtually impregnable according to the accompanying notes. What concerns me about the castle and its grounds are what happens to a wee bonnie laddie when he has had a tad too many wee drams. That is a mighty big drop. I would love to visit.
People all want to visit Australia, but my country has no history compared to Europe. Well, of course it has history, but nothing like castles and moats etc., and I guess I have had my share of inspecting middens and wall art. Unfortunately one has to travel a very long way to see the Red Centre as they call it. Reading "The Maid" has given me itchy feet to visit Europe, esp Britain, France and Greece. Possibly Etruria as well. But these are only dreams. Suburbia is starting to give me the ......... yet again! If Gum were here she would jump upon me from a great height - sorry Gum. Love and miss you babe.
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" Suburbia is starting to give me the ......... yet again!"
I have this theory that people are, by nature, either city people, country people, or suburbs people. If you take them out of whichever environment is natural to them, they are unhappy.
I shamefacedly admit, I'm a suburbs person: loving both access to (tamed) nature and to the cultural resources that a city provides. I know, I know, it's bland, and all the houses look alike. But when I lived in New York, I wasn't able to manage to take advantage of all the cultural things that were going on: I just found it noisy, dirty, and crowded: I missed trees and birds. Washington, D.C. was better: they have managed to bring nature into the city with trees planted on every street, and a woods running through the middle of town. I've never lived in the country.
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I am a city, but mainly country person. Ideally I would love a view of the sea - I am not asking too much, am I?
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I'm fairly easy to please. So long as I have trees around, and a library within reach,..I'm happy.
I'm afraid one tree per block would not be enough, tho', so I'm pretty sure I would not like city
living. We did live for a short while in a city apartment, but that was pre-kids and not really
a memorable time.
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I grew up in the London suburbs but would not like to go back. I lived in central Cambridge for some years and loved it, but it is quite a compact city. We lived in a remote part of Aberdeenshire when my children were small - I loved the countryside and the wildlife, but not the driving in snow - that was my biggest bugbear. For the past ten years we have lived in central Aberdeen - I liked the handiness of everything, being able to walk to the library, pool, shops, etc - but what I didn't like was looking out of my bedroom window straight onto another house. Now I am living in a very small village but in a new house. I really love having the countryside all around me, but I would like it better if the village had just one shop. We do however have the much prized railway station (tiny), so I do have a means of transport other than the car. I love the quietness, and like the village most in the daytime during the week, when there are fewer of us here and it is very peaceful. I also love the proximity of the beaches.
Roshanarose, I have always thought I would love to have a sea view, but with the kind of storms we have been having recently, I am not sure that I would feel very safe right on the water's edge - we have a lot of coastal erosion in some areas of the UK, and houses have literally fallen into the sea in some parts of Norfolk (not with the people in them I'm glad to say). My ideal would be the cottage that the girls and I have sometimes stayed in for holidays at Crail (which is just across the Firth from here, on the coast of Fife) - it is not right on the sea front, but it has been refurbished so that the sitting room and kitchen are upstairs, and from the sitting room windows you look straight out across the water to the Isle of May. The house has thick stone walls and is so cosy to be inside. It also has a tiny terrace garden, which is rare in these Fife fishing villages - the houses are so squeezed in that there is little space for much else.
My parents-in-law bought their house in Grange-Over-Sands just for the panoramic views of Morecambe Bay - it is spectacular, but at the price of being at the top of a very steep hill and at least a mile outside the town - easily walkable for me but I don't think they have ever walked it since they retired - neither of them is very mobile. I really don't think they will be driving for much longer, and when that day comes their house will be totally impractical. It's kind of depressing to have to think about things like accessibility, but I suppose it comes to us all :(
Rosemary
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I don't have a sea view, but have always everyplace I lived had a distance view: currently of some trees. And I am a ten minute drive to a park with a spectacular sea view (Point Vicente): I try to go almost every week. Cliffs, a lighthouse, islands, and it's a viewing point for migrating whales. They have a path with memorial stones: I have one for my husband there, and go, sit, talk to him and look at the view.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/point-vicente-interpretive-center-california-ca389.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetware.com/picture/california-point-vicente-interpretive-center-us-ca389.htm&h=326&w=500&sz=253&tbnid=MZKriR5Tt8kygM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=138&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpoint%2BVicente%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=point+Vicente&docid=OAfRdgCujvZmKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hc78TtvGN_HWiAL7xPmODQ&ved=0CGcQ9QEwBg&dur=468 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/point-vicente-interpretive-center-california-ca389.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetware.com/picture/california-point-vicente-interpretive-center-us-ca389.htm&h=326&w=500&sz=253&tbnid=MZKriR5Tt8kygM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=138&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpoint%2BVicente%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=point+Vicente&docid=OAfRdgCujvZmKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hc78TtvGN_HWiAL7xPmODQ&ved=0CGcQ9QEwBg&dur=468)
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Joan, that is certainly a beautiful view. We have lots of trees in our town. Every year the city wins an award for their trees, but I've never lived in a place that had a really good long distance view.
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Rosemary - We have our share of beach erosion here as well. It must be terrible for those people who are living in their houses to see them being swallowed up by the sea. Actually, I want the view of the sea from up high, but you make some good points about accessibility. I had to move out of my lovely apartment because after I shattered my ankle I was unble to climb all the steps to the third floor. From the apartment I had a beautiful view of the lights of the city and beyond. After carrying bags of groceries up all those stairs I felt as though I was wearing out and was in constant pain. The fact that the management increased the body corporate costs on apparent whim didn't help either. So my ideal place then had to be just one step up from the ground which I have now. I miss my apartment a lot though and my two close friends who were less than 2kms away. It is so true that you can't have everything - and so I shall stop grumbling.
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I watched Stossel tonight. He had John Blundell on discussing some of the women in his book, Ladies for Liberty: Women Who Made a Difference in American History. The title is suspiciously close to one Cokie Roberts wrote. Some of the names are just familiar, some are well known, and some I don't know at all. The B&N listing includes the table of contents so I am providing the link for anyone interested. Scroll down to Table of Contents and click on it to see. Also, B&N has it for the Nook, while Amazon hasn't put in on Kindle yet. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ladies-for-liberty-john-blundell/1100395770
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Checked out the Table of Contents as you suggested, FRYBABE. Some of
the names are wholly unfamiliar, others I at least know who they are. I had
not thought of Laura Ingalls Wilder being as being one who 'made a difference
in history', tho' I suppose she did record much of early pioneer and prairie
settlement. He also listed a businesswoman, which made me curious as to
what sort of business she might have had that contributed to a change in
our history.
Don't think I'll be inspired to send that much money to explore his choices,
but I'd be curious to know what others who might read it learn from it.
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Babi, Madame Walker became the first woman millionaire. A black, she started a black cosmetic line. I remember seeing something about her years ago, I think, in connection with an article or program on the founder of Ebony magazine, or on black entrepreneurs in general. Like I said, years ago so it's a bit fuzzy. I hadn't remembered her name, but I remember her accomplishment. Like you, I am totally unaware of some of the women profiled. The book title may be something of a misnomer, I think. Part of the Amazon book description reads: "With this collection of biographies, the author seeks to inform and inspire readers. We read so much about the Founding Fathers, but far less material has been made available to introduce the ladies, smart and strong in their own right, who have helped to form the political as well as the social universe that we are proud to call America."
I may see if I can get this at the library. But, like you, I am not so sure I want to pay money for it just now. If anyone has read it, I'd like an opinion.
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As a student of women's history, i knew only about 60 per cent of the women in his book. Upon doing some more research, i see that the author has ties to the Heritage Foundation and that sev'l of the women are conservative. That's fine w/ me, i am always happy to learn about more women in our history. I also noticed that many of them were individuals who had singular succeses. We tend to know of women who were a part of a bigger movement and therefore made it into news stories. The book should be an interesting read.
Jean
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Oh, yes, thank you, FRYBABE. I remember reading something about the first
woman millionaire, and that she was African/American. As you say, it does
seem more about prominent woman in our history, rather than women who made a difference in history.
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I ran across this book while checking new ebook offerings on Manybooks, Nurse and Spy in the Union Army: The Adventures and Experiences of a Woman in Hospitals, Camps, and Battle-Fields by Sara Emma Edmunds. I am not likely to be interested enough in the Civil War at present to read it, but maybe one of you would like to.
http://www.manybooks.net/titles/edmonds3849738497-8.html
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Thanks Frybabe for the Civil war story. I am reading diaries, memoirs, letters, etc. from that era as I find them. I will download this and read it later.
I have read all the memoirs in my library, but can download from our regional libraries so I have a long list. I am at present re-reading the Sam Watkins memior. He was a private in the Confederate army from Columbia, Tennessee. If any watched Ken Burns documentary on the Civil war, the name will be familiar as he was quoted often.
This area is teeming with history and my nine year old grandson is a willing pupil. I read to him each week from a memoir, or the Tennessee history for kids lesson. He reads but prefers me to read the story and then we discuss. We also take trips to visit the sights we are discussing. He stumps me with questions about how to build a raft to cross the river. He isn't satisfied with my answer, 'to lash logs together' and get some long poles to push off and across.
We are currently studying the 'first settlers' to come to this area, and how they survived in the wilderness, from the written accounts of those who made the trek.
It is important (to me) to know ones own history and the history of where they live.
Emily
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I've always enjoyed history, EMILY, and a first-person account can be the
best. Unless, of course, the person has no aptitude whatever for writing an
interesting journal. I have come across some that seemed filled with trivial
data like the miles traveled that day. I can see why the individual might want
to keep track of progress in new territory; I just couldn't see why anyone
else would be interested.
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Emily, as I remember, you live in Tennessee, but I've forgotten where. :-[ I'm in Chattanooga, and jean (mable) is in upper East TN. We lived in Sumner County for 24 years before moving to Chattanooga - lots of great history there.
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Emily: "It is important (to me) to know ones own history and the history of where they live."
I agree. one of the first things I did, moving to a new place was borrow a local history from the library. Even though I didn't finish it (unfortunately, not well written), it's neat to know, for example, where the local place names came from, and some of the old scandals, too.
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Some of the names speak for themselves, of course. My little town of Deer
Park was once just that, a deer park. And the nearby Strawberry Road ran
through fields of strawberries. They still hold an annual strawberry festival.
And of course, standing tall just across the river is the San Jacinto Monument.
Those closing battles between the Texans and Santa Ana took place just 'down the road a bit'.
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Naaw Mary, i'm in South Jersey
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Oops, sorry jean. :-[ We'd love to have you down here anytime, though. ::)
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My favorite local story was of the local bar that straddled the line between my town (Torrance, CA) and the next one (Redondo Beach). One of the towns had ordinance that called for an earlier colosing time than the other, so at that time, the bartender would ring a bell and everyone would move to the other end of the room.
Now, there is just a beach park on that spot.
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Oh, I've read all your posts on this page, and it gives me much to think about!
Meanwhile, I just came here to talk/type about a couple of books I am in the process of reading. (actually more than a couple, but I must restrain myself). Which one to read first? I've started this one and it would be a good discussion, I think. My father fought in this war, perhaps your father or grandfather did lilkewise"
TO END ALL WARS: A story of Loyalty and Rebellion, 1914-1918 by Adam Hochschild.
"Today, hundreds of military cemeteries spread across the fields of northern France and Belgium contain the bodies of millions of men who died in the war to end all wars. Can we ever avoid repeating history?" - from the cover
Reads very well.
And then a little book I shall finish tonight on my bedside table: THE GRACE OF SILENCE: A Family Memoir by Michele Norris, who is the Co-Host of NPR's All Things Considered. Her grandmother traveled dressed as Aunt Jemima throughout the midwest for Quaker Oats. The corporation finds itself in a delicate position today "holding on to a valluable trademark widely recognized but historically offensive."
p.s. I have memoed (sp?) a couple mentioned here for the future.
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Check out the photos and interview on this page re: TO END ALL WARS:
http://www.amazon.com/End-All-Wars-Rebellion-1914-1918/dp/0618758283/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326314221&sr=1-1
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GOODNESS! Did I stop all discussion, please excuse and carry on.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Greetings Ella -
My copy of To End All Wars came today but it will be some time before I get to it. I know it would be a good read to go along with Downton Abbey but I have already started The Revolutionaries which is moving along and last night I started a fascinating book The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap by Stephanie Coonz. Knowing myself as i do, all will take a back seat to the latest Elizabeth George Believing the Lie (novel) which also came today. Since the Coonz book is a library book I will keep that at the top of pile. I've also just picked up another 4 nonfiction which will go onto the pile - Berlin 1961, The Illusion of Victory, December 1941, and Why Leaders Lie.. I guess, I'm ready to be snowed in until summer. I love reading nonfiction - but they take me so much longer because I have to think about them as I go along and every word counts.
Mary
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ELLA, it is soooooooo good to see you here! I have missed you. Have you been ill? I hope not. Thank you for sharing what you are reading.
Sheila
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Thanks Mary and Sheila! I haven't been on SL for a couple of months, tis true. My daughter has been staying in my condo recuperating from a total knee replacement and although we were a bit crowded, and she was in pain, we have had a wonderful visit with each other; finding times to laugh, have long talks, etc. Daughters are wonderful after they become adults. The teenage years were frightful; I remember all the mistakes I made but we are such great friends now.
Mary, were you with us in the discussion of BERLIN 1961: Kennedy, Krushchev and the Most Dangerous Place on Earth by Frederick Kempe which we discussed last year. That is archived; was a good discussion. Your book sounds similar.
And like you, I have many books to read - a visit to the grocery store to resupply my cupboards and I can say let it snow. Indeed it did last night in Ohio and it blew up against my garage door about a foot high. But next week it will all melt.
WATCH FOR A PROPOSED NONFICTION BOOK ABOUT TO BE POSTED! Harold and I will be leading another one soon if enough folk are interested. It's a splendid historical book and I think it is on the NYTimes list.
Will there continue to be a NYTimes book list or a NYTimes in our foreseeable future?
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Ella - I heard about Berlin 1961 because you had the discussion group, but have just now gotten around to ordering it. I usually put titles on my wish list as soon as I hear about them but spread out the purchasing. I usually buy the non fiction because I take a long time reading them and keep them to refer back to.
We received our snow the day before you did. Guess winter is going to be with us for a while now. We have some colder temperatures coming in and additional snow predicted. I know the ground needs it for the water table so I accept it. My daughter's family really wants it for snowmobiling so I'll just live with it for a while. At least we know it'll be a shorter winter this year as a month and a half is already gone and a month and a half to go until March & spring. The winter always provides good reading, needlework and genealogy time.
Mary
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It is good to hear from you, Ella. And the book you recommended sounds like something I would really like to read. It an account, is it, of all those opposed to war a hundred years ago, as WWI loomed. If only their contemporaries had listened. I've just started reading another book with a vivid description of the carnage of the the war to end all wars. After that it's the attempt and failure to climb Mt Everest that makes for an amazing tale of adventure. Actually it was recommended in LIBRARY a while ago. I believe it was Ginny who was reading it.
I'm dying of curiousity about what you and Harold are going to propose. You always pick a winner.
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TO END ALL WARS is a darn good book if you like history. We went to see the film WAR HORSE yesterday and here was a few scenes from the book, although it was primarily a story about the horse. Barbed wire! What a weapon it was, very flexible, moveable, deadly. A short history of barbed wire is in the book. The film showed the trenches but somewhat cleaned up I thought; but who would want or could show the true horror!
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I have had that one (To End all Wars) on my TBR list. Hadn't thought about barbed wire, but it must have been terrible. (I don't want to see War Horse) I also have a book I think you recommended, Ella, The Illusion of Victory by Thomas Fleming about how Pres. Wilson was willing to stiffle even mild dissent against the war, and that led me to want to read a biography of Eugene V. Debs, the socialist who was imprisoned for ten years for speaking out against America's role in that war. How awful. Can you imagine that kind of penalty for all those who spoke against the Vietnam War or the War against Iraq and Afghanistan?
Marj
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Hi Marj! Why don't you want to see the movie WAR HORSE? I'm curious.
If you find a good book about Euege Debs, let me know.
No, I haven't read THE ILLUSION OF VICTORY, but it sounds good. We've discussed one or two books about that era, Wilson and WWI. At the moment I can't think of their titles but it was not the one by Fleming.
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JONATHAN, I just saw your post about TO END ALL WARS. Yes, some of the book is about protestors, but I am finding that to be a secondary theme of the book. It follows a few people through that era, some names you will recognize from previous books, but it is definitely about the war, how futile it was, how purposeless! As the author tells it, or as I remember the author telling it, (I'm reading this book now and then) Europe had been at peace for some years and it was as though they were itching to fight! Tired of the everyday routine, so to speak, they needed an enemy.
But I think you would enjoy reading it!
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Ella asked "Why don't you want to see the movie WAR HORSE? I'm curious."
I don't care for smaltzey, obvious tear-jerker type films. Actually there are not many from the Golden Globe winners I want to see, except Iron Lady, Ides of March, and maybe Hugo. I loved Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris.
Marj
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It was that, MARJ! I want to see all those movies that you mentioned if I get around to it!
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Harold and I are proposing a good, very good, book to be discussed, if enough of you are interested. DESTINY OF THE REPUBLIC by Candice Millard - "...a relentlessly compelling narrative about an episode in American history now largely forgotten: in 1880 a truly remarkable man was elected president, only to be shot by a madman. But that is where the drama began." - from the book cover.
POST HERE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED - it will be our March book discussion. http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2817.0
There is much to add about the book, but until we know it will be a "go" I'll just copy a paragraph from the book:
"The Interstate Industrial Exposition Building, the city's first convention center, had been built in 1872, on the heels of the great fire. Instead of wood, it was made of gleaming, fire-resistant glass and metal. It was a thousand feet long and seventy-five high, with elaborate ornamental domes inspired by the grand exposition halls of London and New York. Leaving the warmth of a mild summer evening, Garfield stepped into the hall's vast, richly decorated interior."
Isn't it grand looking? Click here:
http://sistercarrie.wikispaces.com/Interstate+Exposition+Building
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The I. I. Expo Building certainly looks impressive. Is the Great Chicago Fire part of the story, Ella? I'm going out to look for the Millard book. It sounds good. If it's anything like her other book, about Theodore Roosevelt going down that River of Doubt, it should be a great choice for discussion. I read that after you recommended it here some time ago. I keep meaning to reread it.
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OH, NOT AT ALL, JONATHAN. I should not have put that picture on as it has nothing to do with the book actually. I had just read that paragraph and thought of conventions (wonder why those are on my mind???) But I love those old buildings, they don't build that way anymore, these modern glass structures, plain looking, can't compete IMHO.
I agree with you about re-reading THE RIVER OF DOUBT - wasn't that a good story and I remember how hard it was to believe Teddy Roosevelt could have been so disorganized. I must re-read.
This book is just as good, starting with the boyhood of Garfield - "There would come a time when the story of James Garfield's early life would be widely admired.......his extraordinary rise from fatherlessness and abject poverty would make the embodiment of the American dream." (pg.19)
Hope you join us, Jonathan.
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JONATHAN, will you be with us for DESTINY?
We are counting those that have posted to make sure we have a quorum for the book discussion in March. Post and be counted!!!! You don't have to stand up!!! (where did that statement come from, anyone know?) A convention perhaps?
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Count me in for Destiny, Ella. I have it on reservation at our library.
At the moment, I am reading and learning about "The End of Country" by Seamus McGraw. Quite a story! I am halfway through.
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Interesting Google site, especially if you have been to, or are a fan of Stonehenge.
http://historyoftheancientworld.com/2012/01/hidden-dimension-of-stonehenge-revealed/
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There was a wonderful program on PBS last night about the Underground Railroad. It was based on a book by an operater of one of the biggest stations in Philadelphia. He kept a journal of the people who pssed through, and their stories. This was a very dangerous thing to do: if it had been found, he and his fellow "conductors" would have been toast. After the Civil war, he published his notes as a book, which I was able to get for free on my kindle. William Still "The Underground Railroad".
It's a rough journal, but it really gives the feel of the lives of those slaves and the people who tried to help them.
The e-books have a lot of faults, but here3 is their strength. Imagine, having a document like that at my fingertips.
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It was a fascinating thing to watch. I must look for Still's journal. Heartbreaking, wasn't it, to hear of the mother in the deep South who was given an opportunity to escape and had to decide which two of her four children she would take with her and which two she was forced to leave behind. Taking the girls did seem like the right decision.
By sheer coincidence I found a book on the subject a few weeks ago, authored by one of the historians featured in the doc: Karolyn Smardz Frost. Her book, I've Got A Home In Glory Land, is primarily about the freedom-seeking slaves who made it to Canada. Growing up in the Niagara region I had several chums whose ancestors had arrived from the south a hundred years earlier, long before my ancestors fled a Boshevik Russia. We're all refugees up here in Canada. Well, there were a few who came for the fur trade.
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Yes, if you had to choose, you took the girls. Because the boys would grow up strong, and had at least a small chance to defend themselves, but the girls were helpless.
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When we were in Cincinnati a few years ago, we heard about "The Underground Railroad Museum" that provides you with the history of the slaves trying to escape the south. Included in the museum tour is an offer of seeing the houses along the Ohio River where slaves were kept safe along their way. We had read Bruce Feiler's book entitled "America's Prophet" about how the escapees felt that once they were over the Ohio River, they were well on their way. It was their Red Sea of the old Testament. Interesting idea and well written book. This young man has some terrific ideas about the old testament.
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"Sophie's choice" before Sophie's Choice. I suppose their have been many "sophie's choices" throughout history and how DID they do it?
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I couldn't agree more, ANNIE. I've gotten so much out of Feiler's
books. I still wish we could have discussed the one that traced the
history/geography of the development of the major religions. It was
fascinating.
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Babi,
Would that be "Abraham"? We did discuss it and I think that Ella and Harold or just Ella led the discussion. I will go check. Be back momentarily!
Ah yes, here 'tis:
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Abraham.html
We discussed it in 2003 and Babi, you were there!
Have you read "Walking the Bible" by Feiler? Its wonderful and we discussed that over on "Seniors and Friends" in Jan of 2009 before this was born. I led the discussion after asking Pat Scott to please give me a place have a book discussion. And she did!
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Yes, ANNIE, I believe 'Walking the Bible' was the book I was referring to. I greatly enjoyed "Abraham" and I believe we had also discussed
another of this man's great books. I guess everyone simply needed
a rest from that theme, so we didn't discuss it here. I kept notes on it
for ages!
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Adoannie - thanks for those sites, i'm going to read thru those discussions. I assume S and F has an archive also. I know it will be interesting, you folks always provide good input to all the discussions. How did i miss Feiler's discussion at the time? ???
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I'm watching a wonderful program on CPAN3, AHTV, about Early American material culture. He is discussing the way things were "manufactured in early America - globes, furniture, paintings etc and the evolution of production. His name is David Jaffee. His book is "A New Nation of Goods". I'm sure they will repeat it duting the weekend and it's available online.
Jean
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Thanks, Jean,
Since I have CSPAN3, I will be looking that up. Sounds very interesting. Sure hope they repeat it.
As to S&F having archives of that book discussion of "Walking the Bible", I couldn't find one.
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Today is Lincoln's Birthday...!
Lincoln's 1860 Presidential Campaign
Although he lost the senatorial election to Douglas, Lincoln won national attention through the campaign and debates. A Search on Douglas debates provides a letter from Ohio politician, William Dennison Jr. to Illinois's Lyman Trumbull requesting information on the Lincoln-Douglas debates, showing that Lincoln's fame had spread beyond the borders of his home state.
As Lincoln's popularity within the Republican Party grew, he was invited to address members of his party throughout the nation. In September 1859 Lincoln gave several speeches to Ohio Republicans, and on February 27, 1860, he spoke at Cooper Union in New York City. A Search on Ohio speech provides the notes Lincoln used for his 1859 engagements. The notes articulate Lincoln's policy on slavery, and his positions on popular sovereignty and the Supreme Court's Dred Scott decision.
"We must not disturb slavery in the states where it exists, because the Constitution, and the peace of the country both forbid us — We must not withhold an efficient fugitive slave law, because the constitution demands it —
But we must, by a national policy, prevent the spread of slavery into new territories, or free states, because the constitution does not forbid us, and the general welfare does demand such prevention — We must prevent the revival of the African slave trade, because the constitution does not forbid us, and the general welfare does require the prevention — We must prevent these things being done, by either congresses or courts — The people — the people — are the rightful masters of both Congresses, and courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it —"
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We discussed "Abraham", I believe, ANNIE, and another Feiler
book. We didn't do "Walking the Bible".
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Does anyone know if we can access the archived discussions on Seniornet?
Jean
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I started to read the Abraham discussion from 2003. Very early someone posted a story about a brilliant Arab- heritege 3 yr old from Canada that Muslims in the Detroit area were raising money for so he could go to a special school in suburban Detroit. I did a google search to see if there was anything new about him and found this from 2010. He's been back in Canada, going to school in U.S. being inconvenient, has had schooling thru 8th grade, but his local school district believed children shld be in the grade of their AGE, so they wld admit him only to 6th grade, which of course he was way beyond academically.
http://committedsardine.com/blogpost.cfm?blogID=1369
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It's a particularly difficult problem in the preteen and teen years, especially since such kids are often immature socially. They really don't "fit" anywhere.
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From time to time, exceptionally gifted children have been admitted to Oxford or Cambridge - nearly always to study Maths - Ruth Lawrence was a famous one in my childhood. I think this has happened less in recent years - these children often seem to have problems in later life, although Lawrence is now a professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, married and the mother of four children, so it seems to have worked out for her.
This is a link to a programme I watched a while ago, so I don't know if it will work.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175ll3
It is a fascinating and very touching programme about a child maths genius who has few social skills. His parents are very normal and sensible, and just want him to have a happy childhood, but it is a constant struggle for him because he suffers from some sort of Asperger's, and finds it very hard indeed to make friends. There is ultimately a happy ending, as a brilliant teacher takes him in hand and matches him up with a similar boy. There is also a priceless bit where Cameron goes to visit a Maths professor at either Oxford or Cambridge, and someone asks the professor if it will matter that Cameron is Aspergic. He replies "Oh no - they all are" ! Having a father-in-law and a brother-in-law who are both academic mathematicians, I think I can safely say that he is largely correct :)
Rosemary
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;D It is my own private theory, that aspergic repetition is the genius' way of making other actions automatic and routine, so they do not at all distract from the primary interest and focus. Of course, it does drive other people nuts!
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BABI
We did discuss "Walking the Bible" over in S&F in 2009 but they didn't archive so the discussion doesn't exist.
MABLE,
The archives that are on here were saved and downloaded from SN by PatW back in 2009, I believe. Thanks to her, we have some fabulous discussions right at our fingertips. I love technology and bright young ladies who thought to do this.
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Rosemary: having had a father and husband who were both mathematicians (and having started out to be one myself). I disagree. But none of us were geniuses.
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Just as well, JOAN. Geniuses can be somewhat uncomfortable. ;D
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Babi and Jean,
Have you read "Born On A Blue Day"? Wonderful book written by a young man who has autism as does his younger brother. Fascinating!
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Hadn't heard of it before, ANNIE. My perceptions about autism are changing everytime I turn
around. We have learned so much more about it than we once knew (..or thought we knew).
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Haven't been in here for a while. The library stacks are idle, and the reading room more hushed than usual. The library aroma is still present, that divine whiff of old well read books. I have come in here to make a confession. It's OK, because no one is here to hear what I have to say.
I realise that I no longer seem to enjoy fiction as much as I used to. If the book is fiction it has to be exceptional (at least to my taste) for me to read it. It seems that the only fiction I read is historical fiction, anyway.
Back when I was a worker I had money enough to buy any book I wanted. Now that I am a "senior citizen" (I love euphemisms) I am VERY cautious with my money, as there is just me to pay for other things like urban utilities and keeping my house in order. Nothing new there, I am in good company with many others here.
I look over at my bookcase and see that the majority of my books are non-fiction. A whole plethora of books about Greece meet my eye. They are my children; Greece is my love. Behind me another bookcase reveals my past tools of trade, ie books about language and linguistic theory; and Modern Greek and Ancient Greek dictionaries and workbooks. I have the full set of novels by Thomas Hardy; books about art, and occult books. Books about archaeology (not just Greek); books about Afghanistan (lots). Books by Gothic horror novelists like Lovecraft, Sheridan le Fanu, and Edgar Alan Poe.
They say that you can judge people by what they read, and I think that's right. Apart from the Hardy's and the gothic novelists, I have very few fiction books. I wonder what that says about me and others of my ilk?
Sorry to talk about myself so long but why I prefer non-fiction is a bit of a puzzle for me and a distinct disadvantage when I play "Author, Author" here. I do enjoy that game just the same.
At the moment from my TBR tower I am reading a book that I bought about ten years ago. It is called "Dating Aphrodite" by Luke Slattery, a committed Hellenophile like myself. It is the sort of book that only someone dotty about Greece would read (or write). A kind of inspired travelogue. Last night after reading another chapter or two, I dozed off into the world of rocky seascapes, mysterious untouched ruins, and the scent of wild thyme crushed underfoot. Fiction just can't do that for me.
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ROSE, it would be lovely if everyone's 'confession' was so benign. We
like what we like, no reasons needed. Me, I like variety and that includes fiction and non-fiction.
What really astonished me is that you have kept a book ten years
and are just now reading it. :o :)
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Babi - I have got a lot more than one book that I've had 10 years plus and not quite got around to reading. I keep meaning to do as Susan Hill did and have a year of reading only my own books, but I just cannot resist borrowing from the library, although since I got the Kindle I do browse charity shops a lot less. I am always reading reviews, blogs, etc and thinking "Ooo, that looks interesting", when perhaps I should really get on with the books I've already got.
Just saw "A Novel Bookstore" in our library yesterday - they didn't have it when you were all doing the group read. So of course I had to borrow it, even though I'm already reading Bleak House plus a Kate Carlisle 'cosy' mystery recommended on Lesa's Book Blog.
Rosemary
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Roshanarose you are not alone. Some of my TBR books must be older than that, including Barbara Tushman's A Distant Mirror. Yes, I know, I know. I should have read that one eons ago.
Two books just arrived: The Landmark Herodotus: The Histories and the Loeb Classical Library, No. 152 - Compendium of Roman History (Paterculus)/Res Gestai Divi Augusti (Augustus). Roshanarose likes her Greek, I like all things Roman. Even though I had a $25 gift certificate, it still cost me almost as much of my own money. I am getting very tight with my book money, so that seems a lot, now, when I used to think nothing of ordering five or six books and paying over $75 an order. It is amazing how fast you find alternative ways to save money when you aren't working anymore. My non-fiction books are "keepers", so I prefer them in print over electronic.
Just saw your last post. Enjoy A Novel Bookstore. A most interesting read. I recommend you take a look at the archive for all the wonderful comments and links as you read.
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Frybabe since we discussed A Novel Bookstore I heard an interview with the author and to get more from the book there are two books that you may want to look into that according to the author are the bones of this novel - The Republic of Letters: A Cultural History of the French Enlightenment by Dena Goodman and The Age of Conversation by Benedetta Craveri -
Most interesting to me was to learn the influence and power women held in the eighteenth century that was all washed away with the creation of Democratic Republics. They were decided upon with Constitutions written by men and to benefit men and so, where women were the forerunners to Democratic ideas and ideals men developed them setting women aside.
But back to A Novel Bookstore there are in the book many references to historical incidents included in the books especially by Dena Goodman.
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Now this is interesting. Who is the author of A Novel Bookstore? How did I miss that discussion? I have both Goodman and Craveri on my shelf, waiting to be read. The period fascinates me. As well as the century before and after. Anything from Moliere to Maupassant.
Barb, have you read The Georgetown Ladies' Social Club? Livelier than the French salons, politically speaking. Ask any president.
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I too have switched to almost all nonfiction reading. Almost all of my shelves of TBR are non fiction. I used to have 3 or 4 different titles going at the same time but right now (and probably temporarily) am focused on on two. I've been working on The Revolutionaries since the first of the year. I'm finding it slow going.
On the other hand, while watching Downton Abbey I realized I how little I knew about the World War I era and started reading about it. Last week I finished Barbara Tuchman's The Proud Tower and am now reading To End All Wars by Adam Hochschild. After which, I have An Illusion to Victory by Thomas Fleming. By the time I finish all three I'm sure I'll be ready to shift subjects. I do wish I had read at least Tuchman's book just before Downton Abbey because I find the series very representative of the period. Just as the Civil War here resulted in the loss of a whole way of life in our South, so did World War I represent the change of life for peoples worldwide. I had not known about the turmoil in the world prior to, during & after World War I. I would not have wanted to live at that time since I'm quite sure I would not have been part of the minority rich.
I think that nonfiction books are a much more an enjoyable read than in the past. Many of them are so well written that they read as smoothly as good fiction. Many of the good historians are now writing to be read by the educated public instead of to impress other historians. I also enjoy well researched historical fiction.
On the other hand, come April I will be ready for the new Carolyn Hart, Anne Perry & Sandra Dallas titles.
Mary
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I thought that I was sliding slowly toward non-fiction reads but I have always read historical fiction. Just finished "Poe's Shadow" by by Matthew Pearl. It was a struggle but its historical fiction and most interesting. JoanP just told me about Pearl's newest book "The Technoligist" so I will be looking for it. Its so new the ink ain't dry!
Maybe we will discuss it later this year. Marcie says its a good book but devoted to MIT and their technologies. Since I have been married to an engineer for 59 years, I might just make a gift of the book to him. Sounds worthwhile to me. I do love techie things!
I do believe that the reason non-fiction has become such interesting reading is partly because most colleges are offering classes on how to write non-fiction and we are fortunate to be blessed with a plethora of some good authors. The research that they do is fascinating and overwhelmingly difficult to me. I always read the whole book including on where they have their information. Wow!
I just discovered that I have "Destiny of the Republic" still on my shelf and its now overdue. Can't renew it because its new so I have requested it again and am 8th on the reserve list. Hope Harold and Ella will forgive me for "NO BOOK iN HAND"!
I also just finished "The Lady and The Unicorn" by Tracy Chevalier and liked it. I have other of her books, "The Girl With the Pearl Earring" comes to mind.
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Jonathan, Laurence Cosse wrote A Novel Bookstore. Just loved all the references to books and authors in it. Here is the link to the discussion: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2337.0
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Babi - The confession was just my "Non-Fiction" board confession. The others may be unprintable :o
I think that all of you make a sound point about how non-fiction is now so much more "readable" . On one of my ebook searches I found a book written about crocodiles. I was going to buy it, and probably will. But just at the moment I am trying to find a relatively expensive ebook called "Ancient Queens" by one Sarah M. Nelson. It is costed at $35.35 as an ebook on Booktopia, but I think that is a bit much for an ebook. Keep an eye out for it - it looks like a great read. I also enjoy reading Simon Winchester's books. Loved "The Surgeon of Crowthorne" which I think goes under a diferent title in the US; and currently have his "Krakatoa" on the TBR tower nearby..
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That is very expensive for an ebook, Roshanarose. I found several sites here in the States that want $19.77 for an ebook, except for one which wants $34 something. The print book is much worse. I saw one place had it listed for $92.00. Can you request it through an inter-library loan? It looks like the most likely library to find it in is a university library.
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Looks like Amazon has a used copy for $24.99 plus international shipping of 5.99 for one item making the whole thing under $30 in Australian dollars. here is the link http://tinyurl.com/6opax5s
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CubFan, interesting list you have on your TBR list re WWI. Some others you might want to consider:
PARIS 1919; Six Months That Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan (How the treaty that was hammered out after the war changed Europe). Discussed in Sr Learn in August, 2004.
THE GUNS OF AUGUST by Barbara Tuchman (events leading up to the war)
THE GREAT WAR AND MODERN MEMORY by Paul Fussell (National Book Award and Modern Library's list of 100 Best Nonfiction Books)
Marj
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I, too, was mildly surprised to hear of a discussion of a book called "A Novel
Bookstore". I don't remember it, either. But then, my short term memory is a pretty sad
affair nowadays.
I have long thought that much of the art of conversation became lost when TV came along. And writing long letters began to die out with the coming of the telephone.
ROSE, ;D
I had a book called "Krakatoa, East of Java", but I don't know if it
was the same book. Is that the full title of yours? As for piling up books, I'm
one of those who picks up a book because I want to read it, NOW! I'm much to eager
to get into it to add it to a stack somewhere.
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Thanks for the suggestions Marj, I will put them on my list.
Mary
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Someone in here, CUBFN??, was talking about reading more about WWI and I would definitely recommend "Paris: 1919" which we discussed on SN or SL. I will drift down to the archives and maybe get a link for you. Here you go: http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Paris1919.html (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Paris1919.html)
Those people just cut up the world at the Paris Treaty talks, didn't they?
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Frybabe - When I visited the US I was absolutely stunned by how inexpensive the books were. Much more variety and much cheaper. No contest. Problem was it was going to cost too much if I packed all the books I wanted in my suitcase. :o
Barb - Thanks very much for that link. I will let you know how I go with it.
Babi, Babi, Babi - I don't just pick up ONE book, I pick up several. All at the right price of course. I rarely pay more than $10.00 a book, whereas the hardback of "Dating Aphrodite" cost me $32.95, but I wanted it - so I bought it. There is a place I go now with a fairly good selection of fiction anyway. One pays no more than $5.00 a book. It is my nemesis. Reading what Rosemary had to say about borrowing books from the library, downloading ebooks and scratching around for cheapies is exactly what I do. Before I know it I have a towering TBR. I just can't help it. The true meaning of bibliophilia, I guess. Babi - I think you said to me once that I will be dead before I read all my books. I will be happy though.
The title of the book I have is just "Krakatoa" and is a relatively recent book by Simon Winchester.
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So long as you're happy, ROSE. :)
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I love saying / writing - babi, babi, babi. I always think of Diana Ross and the Supremes and their song "Where Did Our Love Go".
I am happy in my space just now, thanks babi.
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I'm glad you enjoy singing my site name, ROSE. Just for the record tho', it's a briefer version of
'Bobbie', not an odd spelling of baby. :D
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One more suggestion for CubFan and others who may be reading about World War I:
THE COLLECTED POEMS OF WILFRED OWENS. (I'm not really a fan of poetry, but his poems are an exception. He was killed in action not long before the Armistice.)
An example:
Anthem for Doomed Youth
“What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells,
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs, -
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys, but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing down of blinds.”
Marj
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Babi - I shall just have to find a song about Bobbie then, shan't I?
marjifay - Wilfred Owen immortalises mere men into the heroes that lie within them. I love his poetry, but it is so sad.
Barb - Thanks for the link. I checked it out. Still too much money. I will wait until I can get it at a better price, preferably as an ebook. I never thought I could be so parsimonious :o
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A sad poem, but beautiully written, MARJ. By one of those odd coincidences, I just
started reading a book in which the heroine as a young teen would read Wilfred Owens
and cry. The background is the post-WWI era.
Nothing like a minimal income to encourage financial prudence, ROSE. I speak as an
expert! ::)
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Babi said, "I just started reading a book in which the heroine as a young teen would read Wilfred Owens and cry. The background is the post-WWI era."
What is the name of that book, Babi?
Marj
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Rose: "It is my nemesis." Tell me about it! I CANNOT resist a cheap book! But since I have more spare time than most, I read them almost as fast as I get them. Of course, that includes a lot of mysteries, which are quick reads.
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The major cause of "frisson" these days is not the touch, the feel, the scent of a man, but seeing the very cheap price of a book I have wanted for weeks, but couldn't afford.
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Oh yes, Joan and Roshanarose - cheap books, good cakes, good coffee, plain chocolate, (almost) any wine; I am easily pleased. And these days I must add, seeing something I want 'free for Kindle' - the directory on mine is becoming as cluttered as my bookshelves.
I was thinking about simple pleasures the other day, as my brother-in-law has just been appointed to a mega high paying job and the gulf between their lives and ours has gone from big to ginormous - what would I actually spend all that money on if I had it? Of course we'd all like to have a bit more - so that we didn't have to think about book prices, and the horrendous cost of petrol, - but when it comes to £millions, I'm not sure that I really want anything that much. Which is not to say I wouldn't find something to use it for if I had it!
Rosemary
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Hear, hear!!!, ROSEMARY. I like to think I could find better uses for excess funds than some
others do. I like to watch some of the house remodeling, etc., tv shows, but my teeth are
really set on edge when I hear of some over-endowed couple deciding to blow, say, $30,000
on a fancy spa-like bathroom! There are kids going hungry, for Heaven's sake!!
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"cheap books, good cakes, good coffee, plain chocolate, (almost) any wine; I am easily pleased. And these days I must add, seeing something I want 'free for Kindle' "
You hit the nail on the head!!
The other day my son and I wwere playing "what would we do if we won the lottery" (considering that I never buy tickets, pure fantasy). I started with $70 million (after taxes). I decided: half for me, half to help solve the problems of the world. That left $35 million. $10 for each kid, $5 for whatever, and $10 million for me. But what to do with my 10. The first thing I thought of was "I can buy any book I want." The second "I can pay to make travel comfortable for me again: go see all of you!".
Then I thought "If i give the kids all this money, they'll have to pay it all in taxes -- how can I avoid this?" "What am I going to spend the solve-the-problems-of the-world money on -- there are so many problems? How am I going to arrange all this travelling? my kids will want me to live somewhere fancy, and I like where I live, I don't want to move. I got so fussed, I decided it wasn't worth it!
Whatever it takes to spend that kind of money, I don't have it!
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Only thing is . When you see people win millions on the Lottery. You see where they are prior to the winning, one thinks they will do that. Split the money, give half to help the poor..Give to Church. Buy homes for the Children. Time goes bye. You hear about them again. Lost most of the money, Divorced. Children got into trouble. Into drugs and booze. Hit someone with car. All really messed up. Like to have a show come on TV that would find some of these people who spent money doing good things. We have had a couple people win around here. Over 100 million. Above pretty much sums up what happened to them. Believe the man Age 45 died of a overdose.
I would just like to win about a million. take one payout. about 750 thousand left.. Pay taxes. Live nice with the rest. But then I don't buy lottery tickets either.
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Fella near here won a lottery several years back. He lived in a cul-de-sac away from everyone, and he wasn't in the best of health. That did not stop perfect strangers from driving up his drive, knocking on the door and asking for handouts. He had to move out of his home to get away from the beggars and loonies that kept showing up. He only lived a year or so after winning. Sad.
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Frybabe - What a terrible story. Poor man. Moral : Never have your name published in regard to lotteries.
JoanK - My ex-husband's (US) grandparents were quite wealthy. They used to offset their money by sending each family member $10,000 every Christmas. The exchange rate then was much more favourable to the US dollar, so the family would get about $4,000 Australia extra each. The grandparents had a female relative who owned a bank, she helped them a lot with financial arrangements. The bank owner died Intestate and her money was divided up for her family. I won't say how much my ex husbane got, as it is rather vulgar to talk about money - sorry! I was a bit surprised that a citizen could own a bank. They are all big companies here, no private banks at all.
Rosemary - When people get that rich here, the government rubs its hand in glee. They take over 50% in Tax. Like most places, there are many tax evaders in Australia.
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JOANK, your distribution of wealth sounds great to me. I confess to being puzzled
by the 'whatever', tho'. If that's not 'for me', and not to help solve world problems,
whatever could it be?? And I'm pretty sure a good CPA or lawyer could explain how
to give your kids money they can keep. I'd certainly like to give it a try. ;D
(I don't buy lottery tickets either. Throwing money away, IMO. I never did understand
the attractions of gambling.)
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We've always said that a lottery is a tax on the mathematically challenged. ::)
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:D
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Giving children and Grandchildren money seems to be the thing now in the USA. Older people think that its a good thing if they have quite a lot saved. Reason they seem to think is if they have to go into a Nursing home then it takes their money fast. If they don't have a lot then Medicare picks up the cost. so. They can give each member that they want I believe 13000 now with no tax having to be paid. I have seen how some of these members spend that money. One ex family member went out and bought a 25 thousand dollar motercycle. Another went on a Gambling trip to LV. Other put in a swimming pool. Here are the older parents scrimping on food etc so that they could give them the money.
This was another way that the US Gov. did not think things out. Putting money in trusts that cannot be wasted should be the way to go. Or seniors should not scrimp. go without things. Enjoy themselves spending if they are healthy. Not worry about giving or leaving money for the Kids and they call it.
I feel like we raised them well. Educated them in order for them to make a living. Would help if really needed to, but to keep on wanting them to have it easy is not the best way to go.
JUST MY OPINION. Many don't like it.
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Just one little correction, Jeanne, Medicare only covers rehab in a nursing home, not long term care.
Medicaid can cover long term care, but there are rules about giving away property in order to be eligible - of course, people can get around those rules if they have a good attorney.
I agree, seniors should not go without in order to leave money to their children.
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Jeanne, i agree with you - but I have read in our newspapers, and seen for myself, that many grandparents in the UK are now helping families with much more basic needs than motorcycles and gambling. My mother's view is that her generation had benefits that subsequent generations are never going to have - our children will probably not have the health service as we know it, neither will they have good pensions, free travel, free university tuition for their own children and many of the other things that pensioners enjoy, or have enjoyed, in this country. I hasten to add that my own family is not funded by either set of grandparents, but I do know many who are getting very welcome and much appreciated help with school fees, etc. Many older people over here have made substantial sums from the huge increase in property prices over the past 50 years - the property market is now very different, and I have no idea how my children will ever manage to buy property unless we help them.
However, in my job I have seen some older people frantic with anxiety about the parlous financial state that their feckless offspring have got themselves into - huge credit card debt, gambling, etc - and absolutely agree that there should be no bail out there. It all depends on circumstances, I think. I hope I will be glad to help my children if they really need it, but I know they would not expect me to go without to do so.
Rosemary
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I like your opinion, JEANNE. Padding corners and relieving offspring of responsibility has
ruined the character of far too many. My Dad once said 'You can do anything you like, so long
as your're prepared to take the consequences." Wise man.
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That is true. MEDICARE will only cover so much but the thing is if you have run out of money. Your funds are not there because you have passed most on to children at Tax Free. (Your home if done I believe 5 years). then they come under the MEDICAID system. No funds left. (Other than if still have a spouse living then they can't touch $13.000 of what money left). If still own a home then they can take it.
I have seen this happen so often. People who owned so much in their younger time end up in County Nursing homes on MEDICAID. Mind you ours if just by me. Beautiful new building but people still call the County Home. Associate it to what use to be the POOR FARM. here in Illinois.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
JeanneP - I think that there is a big difference between grandparents who have a lot of money (attracting unwelcome taxes) and are certainly not scrimping, and those you mention. Unfortunately one family member did take advantage of the Xmas presents - my father-in-law used to cajole my MIL into giving him most of her money and investing it on the stockmarket. He never made any money on it at all. The only good thing about my divorce is that I no longer have him as a FIL. He was a b......d. When Grandmother Anderson found about FIL taking the money, she arranged a special trust for my MIL where FIL could not get his hands on the money. FIL's argument was that he had supported my FIL all their married life and she owed him something. He didn't get any money from Grandmother Anderson as he was not directly related.
One of the provisos, and there were provisos (provisa?), was that her grandchildren (my ex and his sister) should visit their grandparents in the US every second year. And for my ex that the money was to be either invested or spent on the house (another form of investment). My ex did as she asked. So there are often different circumstances surrounding such financial arrangements. Not every grandchild "takes advantage".
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Just finished reading Destiny of the Republic and ready for another nonfiction book. As a result of Destiny, I ordered from Amazon a biography of Joseph Lister by Richard B. Fisher, but have not started it yet. Also someone recommended 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann. Has anyone read either of these books?
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DEAN, let us know if you enjoy the book about Lister.
I recently read a very good nonfiction book and mailed to a sister who is going to mail it to another sister; obviously we all liked it very well.
SANCTUARY OF THE OUTCASTS by Neil White - listen to it on YOUTUBE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSCpTrLDIgI
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dean, I've read both 1491 and 1493. Found them both fascinating, and I learned a lot.
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Dean- ditto to Mary's msg......i skimmed a lot of 1491's description of the battles of the Native Americans, but the conclusions to those battles were interesting and as Mary said, i learned a lot also. I would also recommend 1493.
Jean
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For those of you who like to read about American history, I just watched CSpan's BookTV.org program with Richard Brookhiser, historian and author. He is SO interesting!
I don't usually watch these in-depth interviews all the way to their finish, but I sat glued to this one to the very end. He is such a good speaker, and tells such interesting stories about George Washington, the Adamses, et al. This program will be on again tonight (Sunday, April 1) at 12 midnight Eastern Time (9 pm Pacific Time).
Marj
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MARJ, do you remember which book(s) in particular they discussed? I enjoy well-written history
books. My favorites have tended to be biographies, or autobiography/journal type books. That
is perhaps because I like to get a first-hand perspective more than the views of a historian a
few generations later.
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They discussed most of Richard Brookhiser's books, Babi. He wrote about George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, even William Buckley, Jr. (He's a senior editor on National Review), but the two I want to read are AMERICA'S FIRST DYNASTY; THE ADAMSES, 1735 - 1918 and GENTLEMAN REVOLUTIONARY; GOUVERNEUR MORRIS, THE RAKE WHO WROTE THE CONSTITUTION.
Some Amazon readers did not like his book on the Adams family, saying Brookhiser obviously did not like them, but I'm willing to have a different look at them. About Morris, he said he was a man who would lend you money if you needed it, would be a most interesting man to invite to dinner, but just don't sit him next to your wife. (Morris was a handsome, "ladies' man," at least while he was single.)
One thing he said about Washington I thought interesting: Washington, in his will, said his slaves were to be freed upon Martha's death. But many feared for Martha's life, and apparently she also was nervous, even tho' the slaves were treated fairly well, because she freed them before her death.
Marj
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Some interesting tidbits there, MARJ. I really liked the John Adams biography we discussed here.
At the moment I can't recall who the author was on that one, but the book was very popular.
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BABI, the author was David McCullough and I remember the book very well, also. McCullough made the founders come alive for me. I think we discussed another of his books but, at the moment, I can't remember. Was it Truman? I think Bill led that discussion and I wonder where Bill is.
Way back when, I am related to Governor Morris and one of my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War; therefore I am a DAR.
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Actually, Gouverneur Morris (1752-1816) was not a governor. Gouverneur was his first name. He was a U. S. Senator from New York. Apparently he was very smart. Per Wikipedia, he enrolled at King's College in NY in 1764 at age 12, and graduated in 1768. He then received a Master's Degree in 1771.
McCullough's Truman was discussed here in June, 2002. I have yet to read it. Truman was one of my favorite presidents.
Marj
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I came across an interesting article this morning. It was about a book written by the military officer who was in charge of the committee investigating UFO reports. "UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies and Realities," written by retired Army Col. John Alexander. He came to some very interesting conclusions. You might like to take a look at it.
The link did not take me to the correct page. If you would like to see the item, it's in the Huffington
Post and opens with the report of a pilot incident of 40 years ago.
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I'm currently reading Rachel Maddow's book Drift. She's a good writer, with a really scary topic. I definitely recommend this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Drift-Unmooring-American-Military-Power/dp/0307460983/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333634026&sr=8-1
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I'm just 20 pages into David McCullough's The Greater Journey:Americans in Paris and am liking it a lot. I think it would make a good discussion book for us here. He's talking about the era of the 1820/30s. He's highlighting people such as Oliver Wendell Holmes, Samuel Morris, Emma Willard, etc. He starts w/ what the sea voyage would be like. I've often thought that anyone who had crossed the north Atlantic before 20th century were much more courageous than i am.
Some typical DMc tidbits appear - one ship that had gone down before he starts the story he's telling was the Crises!?! WHY would anybody give that name to a ship? WHY would anyone book passage on THAT ship!?! It reminded me that i once had a business trip to Kansas City w/ a colleague w/ a wry sense of humor. As we sat in the Kansas City airport waiting to board our returning flight he pointed to a woman's "Amelia Earhart" luggage and suggested many we should wait for the next flight. ;D
Jean
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:D Now that's the kind of company I really enjoy on a trip, JEAN.
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I'm reading Michael Hastings' THE OPERATORS. Very interesting. Hastings is the Rolling Stones writer who went to Afghanistan to interview General McChrystal. His artical "The Runaway General" when published got McChrystal fired by Obama. Really interesting account of what went on in Afghanistan. Especially interesting is his account of the corrupt elections there where Karzai was re-elected.
I'm for our getting out of there as soon as possible.
Marge
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Have just started This is Your Brain on Music: the Science of a Human Obssession, just 20 pages in, looks like it s going to be very interesting. The author, Daniel Levitin, has been a musician, sound engineer, record producer, and is now a neuroscientist. The blurp says "this is the first book to arrive at a comprehensive scientific understanding of how humans experience music and why it plays such a unique role in our lives"
The first chapter was interesting, i like his writing style.
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MARYZ - Maddow's book, DRIFT, sounds very interesting and topical. Aren't we all tired of America's endless wars and wonder how and why we keep getting involved. Our military? The industrial military might that Eisenhower warned about?
I looked the book up in my library and although it only bought 23 copies, there are 139 requests on the waiting list. The public is interested; I am interested. I confess I don't understand why every generation, a family must provide a soldier to go overseas to fight somewhere. Oh, there are all kinds of reasons given, the list is long, but still......
My bookclub may be interested. Is it readable; not full of statistics and such? Did you buy it?
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[i]"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." [/i] - President Dwight Eisenhower
http://www.h-net.org/~hst306/documents/indust.html
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Ella, I bought Drift for my Kindle. It's extremely readable. If you watch Maddow's show, you'll know something about her. She's extremely smart (Rhodes Scholar) and has a wry sense of humor. It's full of information, but not of dry statistics and number tables. Usually Amazon will give you a page or two to read on the web page, even if you don't buy it from them.
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Ordered a sample of "This is your Brain on Music" for my kindle. The whole book is out of my budget, but if the sample looks good, I'll check the library.
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Just finishing "To End All Wars", a wonderful examination of WWI, with all the ramafications for Russia, Ireland ,women's suffrage, American intervention, as well as th endless senseless battle on the Western Front. It wold be a great discussion book but not for "hawks" ; it closely folows the huge anti war movement in Britain, and the treatment of conciencious objectors. did I spell nthat right? anyway, a great, well researched, book in readable language.
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You may know that I am a huge fan of Alison Weir, a British historian. I am reading her latest historical bio of Mary Boleyn, Anne's sister. Weir is absolutely painstaking in her research and that is what I love about her writing. The sheer doggedness of her quest for accuracy is astounding. I love cross-references. Another great writer who excelled in research was Robert Graves, especially in "The White Goddess". I think that these successful writers must never sleep. Although in Weir's case, she has already written what amounts to a Tudor series, so maybe she just writes a couple of a books at a time. Gosh!
For those interested the book is called "Mary Boleyn" by Alison Weir.
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I think I'm going to have to buy "This is Your Brain on Music". One of the things he says he's going to explore is why older people continue to like the music of their youth, and can't adjust to newer music. In the Greek drama discussion, we just ran across an angry piece from Plato (427-347 B.C.), complaining that the music the young people are playing now sounds like noise to him, and ignores the rules of his generations music.
Sound familiar?
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JoanK - I am with Plato. I have always associated music with memories and where and with whom I was when I first heard the song and continued to hear it. I think that is a very simplistic explanation though. Hearing is associated with the senses just as certain aromas are with your sense of smell. Sounds like an interesting book. I may read it to see how wrong I am.
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Last night I was at a careers evening at Anna's music school, so there were people there from various universities and conservatoires. The professor from Edinburgh University said he wanted us to think for a moment how much music we had heard since we got out of bed that very day - and when you do, it's quite something, though of course a lot of it is piped rubbish in shops. He said that shows just how much scope there is for music graduates to find jobs - it's not just performing. This was reassuring, as I have often wondered just what Anna is going to do with a music degree - seems there's more out there than I thought.
However, with Glasgow University (which is not the top one) getting at least 300 applicants for not many places, the struggle has already started. She is hoping to apply to Cambridge, London, Manchester and 2 others as yet unchosen. I, of course, am pushing Scottish universities because that means no tuition fees!
Rosemary
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MARYZ: Did you notice that Rachel Maddox's book DRIFT is No. 1 on the NYT Nonfiction booklist? My daughter just gave me her old Kindle with 11 good books on it to read and registered it in my name so I bought the book on the Kindle. However, I find it a bit difficult to adjust to; it doesn't prop up in bed like books do and has this annoying habit of going to sleep when I lay it down for a litttle while.
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Ella, mostly I don't read in bed because I go to sleep. ::) But when I do, I have to use the Kindle - I just have too much trouble holding a book, unless I can prop it up on something. Just the usual differences with different people. :D I hadn't seen that about Drift, but it doesn't surprise me.
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ELLA: I have trouble with the not-propping up, too. I usually bunch up whatever bedclothes I have to make a ramp to prop it against.
Going to sleep is actually good-- it saves the battery. In fact, the battery will last longer between charges if you turn the kindle all the way off when you're not reading, and be sure the wireless is off when you're not ordering. The biggest complaint I have is how often I have to recharge.
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I just can't "cuddle" w/ my ipad the way i do w/ a book. :D
I plug the ipad in every night and it's completely charged in the morning and i seldom drain it all the way down during the day.
Jean
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Ella Gibbons: I am late in referring to your post re: In the Sanctuary of
Outcasts by Neil White. I read this book when it first came out a few years
ago and found it hard to put down. It is one of a VERY few books that I
would like to read twice. As you know it takes place at the only National
Hansen Disease Hospital at Carville, Louisiana---only about 18 miles from
my home. That hospital is no longer used to house the Hansen Disease
patients. The book is OUTSTANDING and I recommend it (maybe because Carville
is so close to me here in Louisiana?????)
Joy
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A major point, ROSEMARY, and not one to be taken lightly. Will Anna be planning
to work part time to cover some of her expenses? It's very possible to take a
full course load and still work part-time. At least it was way back when I was
a collegiate.
I have just received an updated edition of Huston Smith's "Religions of the World". I think it
is the text we used back when I was studying compl. religions in college, tho' the title then was
the "Religions of Man". The 'update' included a recognition of our more gender sensitive times. ;)
I'm looking forward to the new sections that have been added.
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Babi - when I was an undergraduate we actually weren't allowed to take on paid work at all during term-time (I had jobs in all my holidays). We were aware of how things were in the USA and thought it quite bizarre. Now of course things have changed and most students - apart from the ones with rich parents - do have p/t jobs all year. I hope Anna will get organised for that, but jobs are hard to come by these days. I was speaking to a lady at the church coffee morning yesterday whose son (not at college) had sent out 300 job applications and got nothing - many don't even reply, which I think sets a terrible example to young people. He is now working with his father, who has an optician's practice, but even that is struggling as all these cheap outfits like Specsavers are undercutting the traditional opticians so much.
I also have a friend slightly older than I am who is looking for new jobs - she is a very experienced PR person and has worked all her life, but she is planning to move from Aberdeen to Edinburgh, and although she has tons of connections she is not getting any positive feedback - it's terrible. She feels that they only want to employ slick under 30s. Some of the replies she has received were so badly written - I have seen them, no grammar, punctuation non-existent, etc - that it is sickening to think that these people have jobs and she doesn't. We both feel that it is unlikely that we will have 'normal' jobs again. Our government is telling everyone they will have to work longer to get their pensions, but where this work will come from is anyone's guess.
One good piece of news from the careers evening was that there is still a good bit of funding out there for postgraduate courses/study. It seems that very few music postgrads pay their own fees, or at least not the full sum - the conservatoires still seem to have access to lots of scholarships, etc.
Rosemary
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It does seem a vicious circle, doesn't it, ROSEMARY. The economy is bad and we need work,
but a job is hard to find. I was much encouraged recently, tho', to read that employment is
moving up here lately. Not all specifically here, as a surprisingly large number of jobs in Australia
are being offered for skilled American construction workers. But other companies are announcing
new hires as well. A gleam of light in the general gloom.
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Not only are jobs scarce, Rosemary, but since many older folks must at least take on a part time job to make ends meet, they are competing for jobs that used to be filled by youngsters. I hear that some companies prefer to hire the older folks because they are more reliable.
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A quote from my wonderful non-fiction book, To End All Wars by Adam Hochschild, comparing war to a mistress:
"You can admit no other mistress. You may loathe, you may execrate, , but you cannot deny her. No wine gives fiercer intoxication, no drug more vivid exaltation, ....Even those who hate her most are prisoners of her spell. They may rise from her embrace pillaged, soiled, it may be ashamed, but they are still hersl. "
This is striking to me in light of the recent behaviour of some of our troops in Afhanistan. It is attributed to Gilbert Chapman, and I don't iknow who he is.
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At the moment reading another Memoir "The Dream " by Harry Bernstein. This about after the family left Lancashire, UK and came to the USA. Expecting life to get better.
I so enjoyed his first one "The Invisible Wall". He was in his 90s when he wrote both these books.
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Some good news; unemployment is down to 7% in Texas now. I hope everyone will be
seeing some easing of the situation shortly.
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Yes Babi and Real Estate sales this year are up 7% in Houston and 15% in Austin - forgot the percentage for Dallas and San Antonio but they were up as well. Can't figure out why but for over a year Lubbock has been flying high with an increase of 21% in home sales both this year and last year - all there is up there is cotton, cattle, wind farms and there are some oil pumps that were regenerated. Cities in the state have developed some low income mortgages that is making a difference. Now if they will just loosen up small business loans we can be on our way.
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Still I have 2 Grandsons in Houston looking for better jobs. One let go by H/P over a year ago and another a Contractor. The 3rd one doing O.K as he a Web Designer. Thing is he divorced about 4 years ago. Married again and has tried to by 3 different homes. Just will not give them a loan without they have 30% down. Banks same everywhere. Have lots of money but will not loan any out. Same in my town in Illinois
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
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Jeanne it is dependent on his income and credit history but with a divorce his credit may have gone to hell in a handbasket - however, FHA have loosened up last fall and if he is not on the deed for another house he should be able to get a 90% loan - they make two loans out of it so that you borrow 10% at a higher rate for only 7 years and 80% at the current lower rate for the 30 years - he may still be on the deed for the house before his divorce or there may be other issues but 30% is the going down payment only if you are an investor where as buying a homestead in this state the down payment is between 10% and 20% with some low income loans backed by cities for 5% down payment plus of course closing costs that are paid with all mortgages and are a Fed Tax write off.
My son just refinanced and he lives in Magnolia right next to the Woodlands north side of Houston - well you know - didn't you say your daughter lived in Magnolia - anyhow he just refinanced with the unbelievable rate of 1 and 1/2 % and because of the loss in value his equity was less than 20% of appraised value - however with the increase in sales they projected a small amount of appreciation so that the numbers for a loan hit the 80% of appraised value.
But if his divorce presented him with any financial hardship they are not being lenient as they were back in the late 1980s and early 90s and he may have to wait out the 7 years. As a young family man that is a long time to keep perfect credit but that may be what he is up against. He needs to visit with a good mortgage broker and not with a builder - most builders pay the fee for only a couple of loan packages where as a good mortgage broker can shop the entire nation among thousands of packages for a loan package that fits your circumstances. Also, credit unions are doing a good job now and have become a source for mortgages. Builders say they are giving you a 3% discount if you use their loan package however, I have noticed always the closing costs add up to at least 2% higher than what I see buyers pay when they are financing a resale.
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Just ordered The Looting of America - why I do not know - it changes nothing and like so many of us I feel there is not a darn thing we can do about it...
http://www.amazon.com/The-Looting-America-Destroyed-Prosperity/dp/1603582053
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Our May book club online is "Women in Greek Drama": reading three Greek plays featuring strong women. Find out why these women have been famous in literature for two thousand years. Join us for the pre-discussion here:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3156.0
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Rosemary - That story about not being able to work while a student is quite weird. What was the reason given?
Actually, our government has agreed to give companies an incentive of $1,000 if they employ "senior" Australians. Obviously to save money on pensions. I wouldn't mind doing a couple of days a week as long as I wasn't hassled. I have already spent too much time working with bullies and bossy women, mostly.
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My daughter was not allowed to work when she was in her graduate program. I believe part of the reason given was that the school wanted her undivided attention, to immerse herself in the program and to put in a lot of volunteer hours in the school and community as well. She has some very high loans to pay off, in spite of getting a small grant and some Americorp funding for one internship. She'd have been much happier if she could have worked a few hours a week to at least pay part of her living expenses.
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Barb.
I just do not get involved with the Grandson when it comes to their living. I think they should just sit back and stay where they are in a leased house. The one they wanted to buy was to much house for them anyway. Young people think nothing of going into debt. Now he has a son 10,daughter 8 with first wife so lots of child support. then married a women with a daughter 12. they then had a daughter now 3. Spend money like grows on trees still. He has a good job. She just got through taking her Real Estate test. (Wrong business to be in at this time). Then she talks about wanting another child. All is so crazy. My daughter puts herself out watching the children all the time. Then first wife brings them to her on the weekends ex husband doesn't have them. I love them all but glad I don't live close.
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JEANNE, I watch the 'House Hunters' program from time to time, and am constantly
astonished by the young couples who want huge four bedroom houses with all kinds of
'updated' feaures. Reject a house because it doesn't have the kind of kitchen countertops
they fancy, etc., etc. ??? To me, they have no grasp on reality.
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Babi - or they don't like the color of the walls!?! Guess they've never had to paint rooms, or heard there are people who will do that for you. Have we spoiled them too much? Actually, we lucked out w/ our son and dil - and i do believe much of childrearing is luck - they both like doing house maintenance. They just bought a house and my son says he's looking forward to miwing grass and shoveling snow. They already painted two rooms. Our dgt, on the other hand, will be happy to pay smebody to do anything she needs to have done. She's not getting her hands dirty. As i look at these big houses, i wonder if family members ever see each other. There is apparently a room for each person and for every activity.
I can't fault the young generation too much, a cousin of our generation who lives by herself just moved to the south from the northeast and bought a SIX bdroom house!?! None of the family can figure her reasoning.
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Maybe she is going to open up a Boarding House like there were in the Past. Or maybe a B and B. Just a lot of rules anymore when opening them. Use to be one bathroom needed. Not can't do that. Can in Europe still. Did you ask her reason for doing it.?
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according to how far south she may be aware of the heat just when the children are home from school so they will be indoors most days and if they squabble they each can go to their own space plus with computers the connection to the world they can a computer room an office and a craft room and maybe even a reading room in order to be out of the hub bub - but mostly I see a place to cool off especially the first year until they become adjusted and learn to change their eating habits.
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Mmm, JEAN, I hope the family knows her 'reasoning' is still functioning. There are
those of our generation who have/are losing their grip, so to speak. But who knows,..
that house may be the culmination of the dreams of a lifetime and she's indulging it
while she can. I wouldn't be surprised if she finds it too much trouble after a while.
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Or maybe she has a "Ladies of Covington' type of plan, and just hasn't let her family in on it? :)
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I said to a cousin maybe she's going to open a B n B, or maybe some of her northern friends are also gong to move South. :) But we just don't know.
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She will have lots of rooms for family and friends to visit. Maybe planning on that. Needs company. Hope she knows how much it will cost for Insurance, Utilities etc and also upkeep. That is where money goes even if house paid for. Does she have lots of money that is not making any interest these days? Figures may as well spend it. I am beginning to think that way. Not thinking of a big house though. Maybe more travel
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Savings accounts don't really make much sense anymore, do they? We're much better off
using the money to pay off those credit bills. You know, the ones with interest rates more than
double what you can earn in savings. :-\
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I'm really enjoying The Greater Journey by David McCullough. An added bonus is that it is a book i can pick up and put down here and there. He writes so beautifully and yet packs so much information into a book. I just finished the chapter on "The Medicals" about the medical students from Americans studying in Paris. The French were the most advanced in the world in medicine.
I think DMc is ocassionally jerking our chain - or at least throwing in some humor. He stated when talking about ship travel that a ship had gone down in the early days of 1800s, the name of the ship was "The Crises". I'm sure he could have chosen from sev'l shipwrecks, but he chose this one for which I'm sure he expected the response that i had............Who would name a ship "the Crises"? And who would book passage on a ship named "Crises"???........when he talked about surgical operations he choose some interesting examples there also. It spices up the factual info a bit.
In any case, i think it wld be a good book for a book discussion here. There is a lot to talk about. Last night i even ran across a mention of our old friend James Audabon in his later life in Paris.
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David McCullough is very good at making hisory interesting. This sounds like another good
one. I can imagine him smiling when he finds the episode about the "Crises".
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I am just begining to read: "The Greater Journey". It sure sounds interesting!
Sheila
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A member of another book group posts a literary calendar of events that happened to authors on a certain day. One of the events for April 27, 1932: Returning by ship from Mexico, where he has gone on a Guggenheim Fellowship, Hart Crane jumps overboard, a suicide at 32.
Maybe I'm the only one who never heard that, but it seems so sad that I want to read THE BROKEN TOWER; THE LIFE OF HART CRANE by Paul Mariani.
Marj
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I diidn't know that either. So sad.
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I am safely here in a little town called Springboro, Ohio. I arrived last Sunday. Furniture arrived on Tuesday, I bought a home in an over 55 community, and my car came on Thursday. This has been a really busy week. I love my new home!
It has 2 bedrooms, a den, and a sunroom. A beautiful couch came with it. :D My furniture will be in storage, until June 11th. Then it will be moving day. My son, dil, grandson, granddaughter, and their "significant others, all plan to help me.
This is prepared for handicapped people to live in. No steps to access, or leave, showers that will accomadate wheel chairs, wider halls and doors. I think it is ideal. So, I am very happy.
I haven't been able to read, this week. Too tired each evening. It is so good to be with people who love me. Especially my grandson, Shane, and grandaughter, Sarah. My son's name is Scott, and my dil is Shirley. I am thoroughly enjoying being with them. I will be moving into my new home about the 11th of June. I am very excited! I thank God things have gone so smoothly with the sale of my home, the trip to Springboro, and moving in with my son, and his family.
Sheila
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How nice Sheila, a new adventure which sounds like it's a pleasant one. It's so nice to be near family, but not having to live w/ them. You can have your solitude when you want it. Relax and enjoy it!
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Sounds like a great situation, Sheila. I wish we had something like that around here. Does your place have facilities in other locations?
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Wonderful, Sheila! Your new home sounds so nice.
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Congratulations on your move and wishing you every happiness in your new home, Sheila. When things go as well as that, you know you have done the right thing. No wonder you haven't had time to read lately!
Rosemary
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Sheila.
One of these days I am going to have to do as you have. Sounds ideal. My family are just to far away and I have lived in my home now over 40 years. So comfy and everything close. Nice city. But I know that soon will not be able to keep up all the maintenance that it takes. I just can't see myself living in the State my family lives. Never have liked it. Can stand to visit only. Not done that now for a few years. I know is is harder for them to come here. Time will tell. You enjoy your new home.
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Thanks for all of your responses! I do not know if th management has other facilities, in other states. My home is considered a separate,single home. But, it is part of a home owners assoc.They will take care of the outside property. So. no lawn mowing, or snow removal to do.
I feel absolutely exhausted. We did too much running around for my low energy. So, this will be a quiet, restful week. Hioefully, I can get back to some reading.
Sheila
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Sheila, I don't feel I've completely recovered from my 3 moves last year - it is absolutely exhausting. So give yourself lots of TLC and rest, and enjoy your new life,
Rosemary
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Oh, Sheila, I'm so glad for you! I did a similar thing five years ago, and have never regretted it.
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That is the reason I have staying put for 40+ years. Hate the thought of moving. If I do I think I will just try to leave lots of furnishings and things here. Start again with some new. Could have the Auction house just come in and take all other than a few antiques I would keep.
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WOW,
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i can't seem to catch up and get rested. ROSEMARY, thanks for the post about making 3 moves in pne year. How did you survive it? For the3 first time in my life, I wrote a little over $2000.00 in checks, than was in my checking account! Fortunately, I have overdraft protection.
Sheila
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Sheila, at the time I just did it - moved out of our house of 10 years and moved into flat in friend's house with youngest daughter. Stayed there 6 weeks, driving daughter 25 miles each way to/from school each day. Then we moved to husband's rented flat in central Edinburgh - three of us + other daughter at weekends, plus 2 illegal Siamese cats, in a 2 bedroomed, one bathroom, tiny kitchen, flat. Stayed there 4 months till finally bought a house and moved into it at the end of July. It's only when you stop that you notice how tired/stressed you are. Although we have now been here 9 months, I still find that I often feel very tired, and I do worry that I will never feel as I did before all of this! But I have nothing to complain about, live in a lovely area, have nice neighbours, etc - just feel rather old sometimes!
Very best of luck in your new home,
Rosemary
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That very tired feeling is stress. When I was under stress, I felt tired all the time. Felt like my bones were tired (my doctor daughter says she heard that from patients a lot). Tried to rest more, and it didn't help. Finally found that walking, or other mild exercise helped.
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Joan, thanks for that. I find that if I go swimming - which I have done 2 or 3 times a week for years - the next day I feel completely wiped out. Walking, however, seems fine; I walk up the hill near my house most days - the walk is about an hour door to door. I wonder if I should give up swimming? I do think we perhaps underestimate how long it takes to recover from these things. Good excuse to sit down and read novels I suppose!
Rosemary
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Any excuse is a good one for sitting down and reading anything!
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We've mentioned Drift by Rachel Maddow. She's going to be interviewed on BookTV on Saturday, 12 May, from 4-5 p.m. Eastern Time (with a repeat on Sunday).
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Thanks for that heads up abt booktv.
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I read only a modicum of Non-Fiction, usually as research into a subject that was touched on in a novel. (Am I really weird?) A couple of years ago my f2f book group read "The Last Town on Earth" by Thomas Mullen. The premise dealt with the 1918 influenza epidemic. Rehashing the book awhile back, I thought to read some more about that awful time, which would have been during my mother's post-teen years. So now I am reading "The Great Influenza" by John M. Barry.
The most eye-opening thing to me was how little we knew about the practice of medicine, even at that time. This book details, at great length, the researchers trials and errors, and does a great job of giving us biographies of the various scientists and their collaboration with others to try and find a cure for this terrible flu. You will find it a comparatively slow-moving book, of necessity, but totally fascinating.
I hope you don't mind me popping in here with this post, as I mostly just "lurk" here, but post in the fiction/mystery categories regularly.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Tome: "I hope you don't mind me popping in here"
Of course not. You add to whatever discussion you post in!
I admit, when I go to the library, I look at the mysteries first. But then, I look through new non-fiction, and usually see something I'm interested in. My husband used to say I'm like a squirrel, picking up odd facts about things and storing them away for later use.
It's difficult for us to imagine that time of the great flu. I forget about it, until I'm reading about some well-known person, and it says he/she died in the great flu.
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Yes, it was right after the first world war I believe when the Spanish Flu hit Europe. Millions died.
My family lost many in the War but never did hear of loosing any with the Flu.
My favourite ones to read are about the "Plague" that hit Europe a few centuries early. There are both fiction and nonFiction books on it.
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Joan - our library is considering taking books off the shelves that don't circulate much. It's supposedly going to save them money in some way i don't understand.
A friend of mine wrote a great letter to the editor about the joys of browsing the stacks and finding a "prize" to read. I constantly do that. At the moment i have these "finds" that i'm reading: "this is Your Brain on Music", "Musicophilia" and a real fun one "A History of the World in 6 Glasses." a note on the flyleaf says "from beer to coca-cola, the 6 drinks that helped shape human history." i was just walking by the stack and tho't "that sounds interesting," and it is.
I'm also creeping thru The Greater Journey by McCullough. It's interesting, but i need a group to talk with about it. ;D
Jean
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I just lost the whole first part of this message. I will try to do it again tomorrow when the old mind is "fresher". Have a good night all!
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Our library is undergoing a major addition to the building. At this stage at good portion of the
library is empty of books, and cartfuls of returned books are sitting in the back waiting to be
reshelved. A good half of the library is taped off, and helpers are available to go fetch any
book you may want from back there. A necessary precaution, of course. Can't have patrons
getting hurt or getting in the way of the workers. I'll be very glad when it's all finished and peace
is restored.
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Jean - isn't that just one of the great joys of libraries - all those unexpected finds? I recall may school summer holidays spent in the library in Bromley, browsing through all sorts of books that I would never have found on Amazon (has it existed then!) because I wouldn't have known I was looking for them. They found me.
I wrote one of my Open University assignments about the books of my childhood, and the Bromley Public library featured large - I can so clearly recall walking through the park with my mother every Friday afternoon to return our books and find some more. We always came home via Wilson's Coffee Emporium and bought half-price cakes, usually Swiss buns.
I'm glad to say that our new library in Haddington seems to be very well used by young families. When my children were at school I knew far too many mothers who seemed to think that borrowing books somehow reflected on their social status, so they bought everything new and never let their children just browse.
Babi - now that our new library is open, they are refurbishing the old one in North Berwick (they are about 10 miles apart) - as a result the library has been shunted into a horrible room in a long disused furniture factory. I finally found it (not easy, and no parking anywhere nearby, so that will lose them half of their clientele, especially as NB has a huge retired population) the other day and felt really sorry for the staff - they have had to put away most of the stock, and the whole place is so dingy and depressing. I suppose it will be worth it when the old one re-opens (it is going to include a new museum focusing on the 'coastal communities') but that's going to take a whole year. I think I'll stick to Haddington and Gullane during that time - I know I'm very lucky to have a choice.
Rosemary
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I will try again to get the post I started last night, without sending it off into the ether. I was saying that the reason I don't read too many NF books is that they are so bloody long. At least the ones that interest me. I love David McCullough's books, but they are "tomes" in the real sense of the word. I have his "John Adams" on my shelf, and have read the first few pages, but I got it too soon after the TV presentation, and wasn't inspired to continue reading. His newest one sounds really good. But...with my two f2f book groups and following the groups on Sr. Learn and Srs. & Friends and EONS, it is really almost a chore for me to get into a looooong book. Our book groups have sort of put a page limit on what we read, i.e. less than 400 pages preferably. I remember, early on in our book group, we selected the Marie Antoinette book, Abundance by Sana Jeter Naslund. We all enjoyed it, but a lot of folks commented on the length. We also read "Ahab's Wife" by same author. Glutton's for punishment, yeah?
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I love "browsing". I was delighted to find a browse function on my kindle. You can hit browse, narrow it down by subject as much as you want. Then they are arranged by popularity. I skip about 10 pages to get to the wierd books that no one ever reads. I've found some real gems that way, and usually quite cheap.
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Reading a fun book called "The Squeaky Wheel". Written by a psychologist who is also a stand-up comic, it's about how to complain effectively (and how to react effectively when someone complains to you). Covers both complaints to organizations and to family members. Interesting, funny, and (I hope) useful.
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Yes, definately useful! It suggests practicing complaints. I started organizing my first complaint, about my computer music program. i've had so much trouble with it, i'd stopped playing music while on my computer, something I really used to enjoy. I made all the mistakes the book talked about: assuming there was nothing i could do, complaining a lot to people who couldn't do anything about it.
So I decided to organize a complaint. In about 5 minutes of gathering info, so that I could explain exactly what the problem was, I discovered how to fix it myself!
I'm celebrating by listening to Mozart while type!
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:D
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Anything that leads to listening to more Mozart is good.
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High five Joan!
Do you know about Pandora Radio? I just love it. I've been on long enough that i hardly ever have a song come up that i don't like. My son just told me about "iheartradio" it works the same as Pandora, you choose a song or an artist and then they play more of that kind of music and you say yes or no.
Jean
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here is another good one for classical music - http://www.radiosuisseclassique.ch/en/webradio
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A whole year? Ugh! They must be doing a major overhaul. I don't know how long the new
addition to our library is going to take, but our staff is looking a bit strained, too.
I totally understand, TOME. I now approach the 'looooong' books with caution, also.
I really want it to be worth my time. We do,...instinctively, I guess...tend to value our
time as we grow older.
JOANK, I trust you are sharing with us the 'weird' gems you find. ;D Is "Squeaky Wheel"
one of them? Actually, I'm pretty good at writing effective letters of complaint to
organizations. I don't do it often, but they tend to get results.
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Babi said, "Actually, I'm pretty good at writing effective letters of complaint to
organizations. I don't do it often, but they tend to get results."
Good for you, Babi. I also do that occasionally. I also write letters to my Congress people.
I think a letter probably impresses companies or people more than an easily sent email.
Have you ever written a letter to a company complimenting them on a product? The first time we did this, we were surprized to get a coupon for a free item. We don't do it often, but every once in a while when we find we have found a product that really delights us.
Marj
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Marj: what a great idea.
Jean and Barb: Those are good. I've tried them both. For now, I'll get reaquinted with my own music (a Beethoven violin sonata this morning). Don in The Classical corner on Seniors and Friends usually has a classical music program on Sunday mornings that we listen to. but not today, since it's a national holiday in Canada.
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Marjifay, I do try to write to companies if one of their employees has given really good service. I feel it's important to do this as well as writing when they get it all wrong (which I also do!). I don't think I've written about products, but it's a good point.
Incidentally, when I flew to Philadelphia with British Airways the earphones at my seat did not work so I couldn't watch the film or listen to music. I asked the attendant about that and she was pretty hopeless, had no idea where they were even supposed to plug in, and just said 'oh they're always breaking'. I didn't think too much about it but the girl next to me told me I should write to BA so I did. They replied and gave me a generous number of air miles, which I thought was good (though heaven knows when I will use them as I hardly ever go anywhere!)
Rosemary
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MARJ, I remember reading an item that said something to the effect that few people
actually write to their congressional reps. Percentage-wise, that is. So, when they
get an unusual number of letters on a subject, they know it's an area that people are
upset and about and watching closely. So, they do sit up and take notice.
I don't remember writing any letter complimenting a product, tho' I have given positive
feedback on surveys. One unusual 'contact'...I came across what I thought was a very
fine prayer for a person with a difficult job and heavy responsibilities. With some
trepidation, I e-mailed it to the President's office. I don't know if he ever saw it,
but I think he would have appreciated it if he did.
Probably the most 'pointed' letter I ever wrote was to the Director of Nursing of a
local hospital, detailing for her the entire experience of a friend of my daughter, in
their care following an accident. I didn't write it for a good while, as I didn't want
to interfere if the young lady in question decided to sue. Since she didn't, I wanted
the DON to at least know how bad things had been and how vulnerable the hospital had
been to a suit. That one I got a response to. A courteous thank you and assurance that
the incidents described would be looked into.
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Rosemary wrote, "I do try to write to companies if one of their employees has given really good service. I feel it's important to do this as well as writing when they get it all wrong (which I also do!). "
I agree, and also try to do this when someone goes out of their way to provide especially good service. One morning on my way to work I saw that our trash can that we'd set out the night before had tipped over and spilled a bunch of stuff. Thinking "Oh, heck, I'll have fun picking that up when I get home" I hurried off to work. I was pleasantly surprised to find just the empty trash barrel, but not a scrap of paper or trash lying around. I was so pleased that I wrote an appreciative letter to our city maintenance manager, and he replied thanking me and saying they'd put a copy of my letter in the men's personnel files.
Marj
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I have written letters to various food companies, expressing likes or dislikes about the product. Normally, if I have liked something, I will get some coupons in the mail. I think, once, even a complaint letter garnished a couple of coupons, with their wish that I try the product again or some other of their products. I do use Email for some of these letters, and even though the response time is not always as rapid as I would like, I usually do receive a response. Oh, and my mother used to say, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", which in my youth, I had no idea what she was talking about! LOL
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Speaking of writing complimentary letters to companies, I am going to have to write to MacDonalds and rave over their shakes. I hadn't tried one for years when they changed the recipe and they were awful. But we tried one the other day, and OMG! They are wonderful. They even put whipped cream and a marischino cherry on top. Heaven.
(Please don't tell me how many calories they have...)
Marj
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This is Your Brain on Music This was a book i noticed while walking by the shelf - note to librarians who want to remove little-read books from the shelves, DON'T. I find gems all the time while browsing the stacks.......... Altho i skimmed many pages at the beginning because he breaks music down to it's lowest denominator, like pitch, timbre, timing, etc, there were interesting tidbits throughout and the last section, a hypothesis as to why humans have developed and continue to develop music was very interesting and thought-provoking. Anyone who writes, plays, or just listens to and enjoys music might find it interesting.
I picked up at the same time Musicophilia by Sack and it was not as interesting. Most of it was about disease, or health syndromes and their relationship to music.
Another fun book i found browsing the stacks is A History of the World in 6Glasses It talks about the importance of beer, wine, coffee, tea and "coca cola" in history - i've forgotten what the 6th one was, i'm just reading about wine and Greece and Rome at this point. The most important point so far is that beer and wine were often safer than the water, beer was cooked therefore killing bacteria, and wine in itself was usually healthier than water. It was drunk, by "civilized people" diluted w/water.
Jean
Jean
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You recommended "This is Your brain on Music" and I got it I loved it too.
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Oh, I have A History of the World in 6 Glasses, Jean - in one of my TBR piles. Glad to hear it is a fun read.
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Just noticed that BBC America is showing a marathon of The Tudors today.
Jean
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Just finished a very interesting book: GRACE AND GRIT; MY FIGHT FOR EQUAL PAY AND FAIRNESS AT GOODYEAR AND BEYOND by Lilly Ledbetter. I was amazed with what she had to put up with from her male co-workers there.
Per an Amazon reader, "This book recounts the odyssey of Lilly Ledbetter, a lady from Alabama who picked cotton in the rural South as a little girl and then grew up to become the spokesperson for Equal Pay for Equal Work. As it turns out, after working for Goodyear for nearly twenty years as a supervisor, she discovered that her pay was significantly lower (by almost half) than that of her male counterparts. Many of whom had treated her horrendously throughout her tenure at the Gadsden Goodyear plant. She took her case to court and discovered how mighty the powers of corporate America can be."
Marj
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I'm reading Ron Chernow's WASHINGTON; A LIFE. Very interesting -- really brings George Washington to life.
Had to laugh. Because Washigton's father died when George was young, his family could not afford to send him to college. So he read a lot. One of the books he read was The Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior in Company and Conservation. The No. 4 rule warned: "In the presence of others, sing not to yourself with a humming noise, nor drum with your fingers or feet." No.12 was "Bedew no man's face with your spittle by approaching too near him when you speak." (What Seinfeld would speak of as a "close talker," to be avoided. LOL)
Marj
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Oh dear, I am always breaking Rule No. 4. Was humming my way round Tesco yesterday - got a few strange looks :) How come it's acceptable to walk around all day with an i-pod stuck in your ears, but not to make your own music?
Rosemary
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Ignore them, ROSEMARY. I would find it cheering to hear someone humming happily as they
go about their day. ;)
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I'm always breaking number 4 also (hopefully not number 12).
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I whistle a lot and get funny looks. Doesn't bother me.
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I was about halfway through Dan Rather's book, when I discovered that it was a two-week book and I must return it to the library. That was all right as I found Rather, whom I had always thought a very good commentator on the news, to be bitter and egocentric.
Has anyone else read the book - finished it?
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Have been trying to find a Non Fiction book. "Five Chimneys" by olga Lengyel. She was a survivor of Auschwitz . Not found any copy yet. I can find on the Web but don't want to buy. Found that her book was made into the movie"Sophie's choice" Want to see if they both came out the same. I read Sophie Choice years ago.
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Google - World Cat - type in the title Five Chimneys & your zip code. It will tell you the libraries in your area that have the book which you can then have your library get for you on interlibrary loan. I found that in my area there are several academic libraries with it.
Mary
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Because i entered "History in 6 Glasses" in my Goodreads' list, it then recommended "Food in History" by Reay Tannahill. I like these kinds of books. I don't read every word, but skim thru many paragraphs, still i find bits and pieces that intrigue me. Having taught about Egyptian civilization over the years, a fundamental premise was to talk about how the Nile flooding each year bringing highly productive silt made for high levels of crop production. This was a very important aspect of their civilization. While writing about this, Tannahill casually says that those "rich black earth deposits (are now trapped behind the Aswan Dam)" !!! WHAT!?!
I know having the electricity was important, but my gosh, stopping that magnanimous gift of nature sounds excessive, maybe even stupid!?!
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That is a problem with dams, Jean, they keep rich soil deposits from flowing downstream into estuaries and deltas, at the same time, they prevent migrating fish from running upstream to spawning grounds (unless fish ladders are put in, and I am not sure how well they actually work). Oh, and they often create lakes behind them that have, in some cases, inundated whole towns in the name of progress. People have lost their traditional homes and livelihoods, but on the other hand, dams have also created jobs and provided people with a steady source of reliable energy. Often they create solutions to problems in one area only to create problems in others. In the case of Aswan, they lost Luxor (and other ancient archaeological sites), and organic replenishment of the soils (requiring farmers to use fertilizers they may not be able to afford). Does anyone know what they actually gained? I rarely hear about the upside of Aswan.
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MARY, that's a very helpful post. There has been more than one book I couldn't find
and didn't want to buy. World Cat sounds like the answer.
That is a severe drawback, having rich soil held back from where it is badly needed. Surely
someone ought to be able to find a way to dredge up that soil from behind the dam and make it
available.
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Frybabe wrote, "I rarely hear about the upside of Aswan."
I've never heard of the upside OR downside of it, Frybabe. (lol) Seriously, I'm impressed with the stuff you know. I've heard of the Aswan Dam in Egypt I think. Will have to read about it.
Marj
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Thank you for the compliment, Marj. Actually, I am one of those jack-of-all-trade types who knows a little about a lot but am master of none. George says my wide ranging interests is one of the things that attracted him to me. I guess he had a few previous acquaintances who were rather limited in conversational interests. Like the rest of the bunch here, I like to read - a lot - and am an Internet explorer. I love having at my fingertips all those maps, pictures, and descriptions of all those places, people and things we read about here, for instance.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
"I am one of those jack-of-all-trade types who knows a little about a lot but am master of none"
That's me, too. I'm a fact squirrel. My husband used to say, when I pulled out some obscure fact but forgot a dentist appointment that the less important it is, the more I remember it.
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;D ;D
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A good friend used to always say: "I know just enough to get me into trouble"! But she was a wealth of information on many subjects, and could fix almost anything!
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"I know just enough to get me into trouble"! That's good!
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As usual, I'm reading books that most have already read. Presently, I'm within 50 pages of completing Walter Isaacson's Steve Jobs Bio and have found it to be one of the most fascinating reads of recent vintage. My emotions ranged from disgust to admiration but my interest never waned. I scrolled back several days scanning the SeniorsLearn comments by others hoping to find opinions of other readers of this book but I suppose I didn't go far enough. I'd love to hear some others take on this book. Incidentally, I like David McCullough, too, and his mention brought to mind a recent news item about his son and, true to form, I have completely forgotten what it was all about.
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I'm planning to read about Jobs, having been involved in the computer industry early. But haven't yet. I was a little afraid it would be just a puff piece advertising the Mac products.
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Joan K: It's not. Had I been Jobs (Fat chance), I wouldn't have allowed Isaacson to publish the book.
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I havn't yet read the book of Jobs but what I have read about him I don't really think that he ever gave a darn about what was said and so Isascson's book would not have bothered him at all. He was a smart man but sounded to be a little strange.
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I've liked a couple of Babara Tuchman's books, particulary A Distant Mirror, so i picked up The First Salute. It's about the little Caribbean country that was the first country to salute an American ship after July 4th, 1776. I'm sure there's much more to it than that, but i've just read the first chapter. So far the writing is a bit disappointing. I may have too great expectstions of Tuchman. Has anybody read it?
I'm still plowing thru A History of Food. It's one of those pick up and put down books w/ an interesting bit each time, altho not enthalling overall. I like having one of those on my nightstand.
Jean
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I've started reading a series of books, the first of which is authored by Alan Watts, on the subject of Zen. Just curious; not searching for the meaning of life, a cause I pursued in my earlier years to no avail. Any Zen Masters out there?
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That could turn out to be a fascinating subject, JIM. Let us know how you get on. No, I know
nothing about it except that apparently poses odd problems that are supposed to make you
re-adjust your thinking processes. I think. ???
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I remember reading Alan Watts decades ago, but don't remember many details. I have a number of books on buddism (though not Zen particularly). Those and taking yoga have influenced my attitude toward life.
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The math nerd part of me is reading "The Clockwork Universe" by Edward Dolnick about Newton's discovery of calculus and the law of gravity, and the argument with Leibnitz as to who discovered calculus first. At least, that's what the end of the book is about. We wander a lot through 17th century London first.
Anyone who's been to a math conference knows that math arguments, while usually couched in polite language, can be brutal, and this one is no exception. And poor Newton apparently lived up to his reputation as the worlds least likable genius.
I found the book great fun and very good at giving a sense of how revolutionary ways of thinking that we take for granted were when they were first introduced. Makes me wonder what ways of thinking that we are blind to are awaiting our children.
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For that matter, JOAN, think of all the things we now accept that would have been strange to
our parents and unheard of to our grandparents.
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Some of you may enjoy a blog email that i get each day.
http://www.delanceyplace.com/delancey_archives.php
Their Homepage description is: Delanceyplace is very simply a brief daily email with an excerpt or quote we view as interesting or noteworthy, offered with commentary to provide context. There is no theme, except that most excerpts will come from a non-fiction work, mainly works of history, and we hope will have a more universal relevance than simply the subject of the book from which they came.
We hope that you will enjoy these. If not, simply follow the directions in the email to remove your name from our list. If you enjoy these, and have a friend you think might enjoy these too, we'd love for you to share this with them by clicking on the "Share" link in the blue column to the left. You can also use this link to post to Twitter, Facebook, save it in your favorites, or any of number of other social networking sites.
We would also covet any comments or suggestions. You may send us your comments and suggestions by clicking here and filling out the contact form or by sending an email to feedback@delanceyplace.com .
All profits from Delanceyplace are donated to charity.
Thank you!
Richard Vague, Founder
Clarissa F. Griebel, Publisher
I've found the excerpts very interesting.
Jean
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my goodness Jim, a Zen Master - whew -
For years I have been reading and seeing my world mostly through the Tao but with some Zen - practicing meditation and contemplation has brought me calm insight and practicing Zen to learn to see reality clarifies like nothing else.
I must say though that I find the principles to work hand and glove with many of the contemplative theologians especially, thirteenth-fourteenth century philosopher, theologian, Meister Eckhart and mystical doctor St. John of the Cross.
One of the DVDs that with every watch shows me more is, Amongst White Clouds- Buddhist Hermit Masters of China's Zhongnan Mountains.
JoanK I am impressed that you took yoga - everytime I thought I would start something came along and now I am concerned I could even do a basic position - sitting with my feet under and pointed behind me is a feat. I have started practicing Qigong - I haven't noticed any significant change but it does make me feel less sedentary as if I can really still move my body in ways that benefit me.
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Barb, there is a wonderful dvd titled "Yoga for the Rest of Us". I've had my copy so long it's a video tape. You can do the exercises either on the floor or modified for sitting on a chair. It feels good.
Jean
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I added Delanceyplace to my favorites list, but I didn't arrnge for a daily email.
I might try that; see if I enjoy their selections. I sometimes add a interesting spot
to my favorites and then only look at them when I need something to do.
Alas, I can no longer get down on the floor...can't get up again! Seriously. To me, moving
my body in ways that benefit me now means making my own bed, doing a bit of housework
and walking carefully out to the car for short trips around town. I even find it hard to walk
across the lawn, simply because the ground is so uneven. Once I'm out there, I often have to
do the 'robot' dance, shifting my feet carefully in slow, short turns. I imagine it's something to
see, tho' I'm hoping no one does. ;)
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No Zen Master, Jim (lol), but I loved Alan Watts' books and read every one of them back in the 1970s and listened to tapes of his lectures. Also liked THE TAO OF PHYSICS; AN EXPLORATION OF THE PARALLELS BETWEEN MODERN PHYSICS AND EASTERN MYTHOLOGY by Fritjot Capra. These books radically changed my thinking about religion.
Marj
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The yoga I do now is chair yoga: a yoga class for those of us who can't get down and up from the floor anymore. I also have a tape of chair yoga.
But the breathing and meditation techniques can be learned from a book.
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I practiced meditation in my 30's & 40's and found it most helpful and calming. I wish I had
not let it lapse. I'm still not sure how that happened. Too many crises all coming together at
once, I suppose, grabbing all my attention. ::)
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O.k., my meandering around and picking up and putting down is officially a favorite part of my retirement years! While reading an old Newsweek magazine, i saw a review of Taylor Branch's The Clinton Tapes. I liked his work on MLK. He jam packs a book w/ minutia, sometimes i like that, sometimes i don't and do some skimming. This sounded interesting. When i was at the library i looked for it. 700 pages!!! And i will definitely be skimming a lot of the diplomatic hither and fros and picking up and putting down and meandering around for as long as it takes. Thanks to being retired, i have the time and have no qualms about doing that.
What really intriqued me is Branch's apparent integrity in his writing and the fact that he and C had been college friends. Also the reviewer said that C had asked B early in his first term to come to the WH secretly, tape their discussions of recent events and to leave the tapes w/ Bill. He hid them in his sock drawer!!! The reviwer said only C's scheduler knew he was coming, but i can't believe that Hillary didn't know.
B taped his own version of the recollections of the conversations as he drove back to Baltimore after each session, so it's not just a transcript, he includes his own opinions and feelings. Of course, i'm sure there was an agreement that B could not publish anything until after Bill wrote his book, which is only right. So i've got a lot of material to look forward to over the. Ext few months.
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I wonder how the two books compare. They are naturally going to have some differences of
opinion, but it would be interesting to see how each 'remembers' different events and discussions. Have you read the Clinton book, JEAN? I haven't; I guess I assumed it was just
another politician keeping himself in the public eye.
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No, i haven't read Clinton's book, but i might if i survive these 700 pages :D.
So, just 30 pages in, it's very interesting. C asked B to assess his inaugural address just 2 days before Jan 20. "Seeing" the process of that is fun. Also, i just had a conversation w/ some friends who are very currant- events oriented and i was commenting that there is no job training for president and that i'm sure it is much more complicated than we can imagine. B mentions that C had asked Gardner Taylor, a colleague of MLK to speak at the church service on inauguration day. The service was at an A.M.E. church. Vernon Jordan had suggested Taylor to C, because he was an outsider, so there wouldn't be any competition or feelings of rejection and jealousy among the A.M.E. bishops if one was chosen over the other!!!
So many pieces in the puzzel of presidential decisions! There is so much we know nothing about.
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Have I mentioned The Presidents' Club (http://www.amazon.com/The-Presidents-Club-Exclusive-Fraternity/dp/1439127700/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340636841&sr=1-1&keywords=the+presidents+club)? We've just finished it - a great look at the interactions between past and current presidents. It starts with Truman and Hoover and comes to the present. Fascinating!
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A friend just loaned me The Presidents' Club and I'm anxious to begin reading it.
I like the idea of presidents talking or corresponding with each other privately and have always suspected there's more of that than we're aware of - especially with so many living past presidents.
I enjoy reading presidential biographies and like to read both "pro" and "con", if I can - as long as the "con" isn't a biased Rant. There are always two sides to each story.
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Jean, I don't know if you had recommended/linked "DelancyPlace" in a post earlier than June 22, but I had already found it, and I do get the daily emails, which are totally interesting. They are not overly long, but are fun to read. You just never know what's going to pop up! I hope others here will go to the link, and opt for the emails.
I have been reading "A World Lit Only by Fire" by Wm. Manchester. I can't recall if it was recommended here in one or another of the discussions, or from Seniors&Friends. It is a very eye-opening read, and I am enjoying it despite having to read about the violence and in-humanity of the Medieval age, and even later. (But what else is new?)
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I am enjoying it despite having to read about the violence and in-humanity of the Medieval age, and even later.
That sort of thing is what put me off of finishing "A Distant Mirror". I couldn't stand the times, though I normally like Tuchman.
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I skim the violence stuff if it becomes excessive for me.
Mary, i'm glad you mentioned Presidents Club. That sounds like something i'd like to read.
Tomereader, is that THE Wm Manchester of Kennedy era fame? What is the book about?
Jean
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Basically a timeline from A.D.410 to 1536. Subtitle: The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance. Yes, THE Manchester wrote: The Death of A President, The Arms of Krupp, American Caesar and Goodbye, Darkness. and many others. Adjunct prof of History at Wesleyan University, Middletown, Conn. This book copyrighted 1992. He may not be around any longer (?)
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I read The Arms of Krupp when I was in high school. Gosh, that was a long time ago. He passed away in 2004.
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Greetings -
I want to thank those of you who gave me reading suggestions. I think I now have a reasonable understanding of history 1900-1920 and World War I. Based on your suggestions I read Proud Tower, To End All Wars, Guns of August, Illusion of Victory, and Paris 1919. I also have The Great War and Modern Memory but since the print is so small I will wait until I get new glasses. I also just finished Revolutionaries which was slow gong but very interesting. I'm going to shift to some less intense reading for a while. Pops will probably be my next nonfiction choice.
Thanks.
Mary
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I am impressed that you can read one period so intensely. Unless i am preparing for a class, i get bored w/ too much of one time or event. i enjoy reading a variety of subjects. It must be valuable to be able to compare and contrast so many books of the time. Which did you like the best? What is Pops about - my guess is Louis Armstrong.
Jean
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CubFan, I hope your new glasses will be better than the ones I got. I no longer can read the fine print on such things as can labels in the grocery store. I could with my old glasses. The people who did my glasses cannot seem to get them adjusted right so that I can read with them without holding the book way back. Right! You try to read through the cat or hold the book way up in the air for any length of time. Pair two is entirely unusable except for distance. It is too uncomfortable for reading and watching TV as I must tilt my chin way up so I can see through the clearest part. I also have to sit farther away from my computer monitor which means stretching my mouse arm out most of the way. They are progressives, and yes, I am used to progressives. Also, my eyes get tired and fuzzy much easier with these glasses.
Sorry, you got my soapsuds foaming.
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I know - I have varifocals and I don't know why I bothered, as I can't see short distances with them at all - they're OK for driving, etc but for reading I just take them off, which makes me think I should have saved the extra money I had to pay to get the 2 functions in one pair (if that makes any sense...)
Rosemary
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Perfect sense, ROSEMARY. It is so frustrating. I need one pair of glasses to see
the computer clearly, and the other to read the smaller print, and I'm sitting here
switching from one pair to the other in order to enter discussion notes from the
book to the computer! >:(
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I've had trifocals for more then a decade and like them fine. The last two prescription changes i've had to go back for an adjustment, but they came out o.k. I think it's hard to say which one is "better" when they are testing me. My doctor is very good about making me happy. Have you gone back for a reassessment?
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I too have had Trifocals for years. I first tried to get the kind with "no lines", but I coulnd't even see or focus with those. These are great, don't bother me a bit. You learn to focus thru each segment as needed. Top is regular vision, middle is reading from a computer screen, bottom is for regular reading. The idea is to move you eyes, not your head while you are learning the focus routine!
Now that we are talking, briefly, about something other than books,
(health?) what is a good remedy for shaving rash? A friend had said she simply dry shaved her legs, and it worked better for her. I tried that on my legs, and I have the awfulest case of shaving rash I've ever seen or heard of. Tried Benadryl, Benadryl Anti-Itch Gel, Anti Itch spray, various hydrocortizone creams/ointments. None of this is working. I'm about to go bonkers here! Old home remedies will be gladly accepted too!
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I have been lucky. Never had to shave either legs or underarms. My mother was the same. No idea why. Always had thick hair on head.
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You might try the Bach products - they do have a combo called Rescue that I carry with me that a few drops under your tongue takes stress during an emergency and they now have Rescue cream -
http://www.bachflower.com/Rescue_Remedy.htm
and then I would follow up with whatever deadening product you use for a bad sunburn - for me solarcaine where as my Aloe Vera is handy it does not deaden the pain.
I also found that I need to keep my legs semi-weekly foliated like my face and daily slathered with moisturizer so that the skin is as smooth as you can make it. Before shaving you may try to flood the area with peroxide and leave it for 10 minutes.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Frybabe - I could have written the same with these glasses. I have a separate pair of reading glasses but it is so pricey to have to buy multiple pairs.
Jean - I don't usually focus on one topic either, in fact I usually have three non fiction going on totally different subjects & pick them up based on my concentration level. This time I didn't have more than one title going at a time. When I watched Downton Abbey I realized how little I knew about that time period & decided to do a crash course. I had previously read quite a few books involving the horrible trench warfare of that time but not about the political and economical conditions worldwide.
It was interesting how these books came at the issues from totally different perspectives. Proud Tower was an excellent prewar overview and Paris 1919 explains why we are still having issues and problems today. Illusion of Victory was the hardest read & took the longest because Mr Fleming was so critical and his constant negative comments dragged things down. His analysis was accurate but the reader would have drawn the same conclusions with out being repeatedly told that individuals were stupid and ideas were dumb.
Yes, Pops is a Louis Armstrong biography. After I take a "fluff" break I'm also going to srart A History of London by Steven Inwood which will probably take until Christmas. My daughter is paying for a trip to England for us in the next year or so & I need to refresh my knowledge there. I had read Rutherford's London some time ago but read it more as a story than as a source of information. I took a course in the history of England 50 years ago but only remember 1066.
Will comment when I come up for air again.
Mary
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Mary you have put much study into WWI - you may be finished however, helpful could be two books to read the other viewpoint may round out the leadup and rational by Germany - recommendations are - Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia, 1600-1947 which addresses the allies fear after WWI&II of Prussia and also, more specific to the lead up - Bismarck and the German Empire by Erich Eyck
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I've had the variable focus lenses for years and love them (changed to them from trifocals), and had no problems getting used to them.
As to shaving, I just quit doing it. Nobody cares or notices. Give it up.
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I too have never shaved my legs. I remember watching my mother doing it - I must have been of pre-school age - and her saying "Never start shaving your legs, or you'll never be able to stop." It's about the one piece of advice I've actually listened to! I tried persuading Anna not to start, but she wasn't having any and now she's always buying newer and fancier razors. I don't think Madeleine does it - yet.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why any of us bothers. What's wrong with a bit of hair?
Rosemary
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Frybabe, sometimes when the glasses are ordered, they don't measure the location of the reading area. I had one pair of progressives that gave me a stiff neck - I took them back in and they replaced the lenses to raise the bifocal area - was a wonderful change.
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Rosemary.
Lived at home for 21 years and never saw my mum shaving hers. I know that my 2 daughters started at 14 as all their friends were doing it. Don't think theirs grew to much and they stopped when young.
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I'm w/ Maryz, haven't shaved anything in decades, but then, i'm not very hairy and my body hair is fair.
Another perspective on Europe at and around the turn of the twentieth century is a book
Grandmama of Europe about Queen Victoria and her sons and dgts and grandchildren who are on thrones all over Europe during WWI. It really was cousins fighting cousins. I read it decades ago and enjoyed it very much. It was an interesting, not very heavy read.
I'm still, and slowly, enjoying The Clinton Tapes. Branch does a good job of putting us there w/ he and Clinton as they discuss events.
Jean
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One reason I won't switch from trifocals to progressives is that I know which segment I'm looking through, so if there's a problem I know why.
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I have had progressives for years and never had a problem with them before. Unfortunately, I only had 30 days to have them replaced - right in the middle of school and tending to George with his pre-surgery problems. Of course when you take them back they always give you this business about how it takes a few weeks to acclimate to new glasses. I had the glasses back four times, got a slight adjustment and was told that each time. Of course, that runs you past the 30 guarantee limit real quick. The manager of the store called me yesterday and said that since I was concerned about the price (because I was out of work) she gave me the cheapest progressive lens available (cheap at almost $600?). I didn't know there was a choice or what the differences would be between the "grades".
I am not reading any nonfiction at the moment, but I have just started a Yale course on Game Theory and the LearnOutLoud podcast on Roman history. I have also begun my review of Latin in preparation for the fall session.
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On hair, mine was so light it was hadly noticeable. I never felt the need to shave
it. On the glasses, I was surprised to discover a bifocal, or trifocal, could be a
problem for people who have precarious balance. Those little lines marking a shift
of focus are also causing a difference in depth perception as you walk. I find it
best to remove the glasses while I'm walking.
The only non-fiction(?) I'm reading now is small excursions into the Qu'ran. I read
it once but cannot claim to have understood much of it. I am now approaching it by
choosing a particular topic from the index and following up on that. I like the
commentator. Where opinions differ, he may say, "I don't want to be dogmatic about
this.." Such a refreshing viewpoint in a religious commentator. 8)
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Oh Frybabe, I think I'd call that manager back and say that the 30 days should have been honored because you were in there with the problem and they were the ones who dragged out the correction. And I'd certainly go somewhere else next time.
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I also had an annoying experience re opticians. One in Aberdeen was advertising 'buy one pair, get one free' - so I orderd expensive glasses then asked if the second pair could be sunglasses. They said yes, then produced a very small range of hideous ones. I was talked into buying some I loathed. The shop advertised '30 day no quibble returns', so after showing the sunglasses to my husband, who agreed they were dreadful, I went back. After much muttering they said their return policy did not cover that. I was too pathetic to argue - wish I had now, as have never worn those sunglasses, so am still using really old ones, the frames of which I like but whose prescription is all wrong for my eyes now.
For ages afterwards they kept sending me advertising stuff entreating me to go back. As if. I go to Black & Lizars now, they are so much better (despite the varifocals :))
Rosemary
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I wonder if it is computers that make those follow-ups, ROSEMARY. I haven't belonged to the
AARP for many years now, but I still get mail from them frequently urging my participation (or
donations) for all sorts of things. I do wish they would take me off their mailing list.
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If you have frames that you like but the lenses get damaged or need changing it is better to have them put new lenses into the older frames. I have found that I buy new with both f and L and don't like how they feel after a few days. One get use to certain type frames. I don't like the small oval frames at all. Most in the stores now seem to be this way
I just use glasses for reading but still like them to stay up on nose and not keep having to push them back up.
We must have 12 different places now in town selling 2 pairs for price of one with the price being abut $60. Then you can get eye test for $30. Don't know how they do it. Never paid less than $200 for one pair. Use to Pay $450. Have Dental places also. I laugh when I see. False set of teeth starting at $399. Ready same day. Lots of cars on all their Parking lots so people must be buying.
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My reading glasses cost $1.00/pair at the dollar store! And they work just fine.
Marj
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I'm considering that MaryPage. George often uses reading glasses with his contacts or over his glasses (when the contacts aren't in). I believe I over paid considerably for my buy one get one free (HAH!) glasses. The store manager insists that plastic frames are hard to adjust and that she has customers who come in every month for an adjustment. What a load! My first pair of progressives were in plastic frames. Never had a problem once we got them adjusted, which didn't take but one try. Never had to take my wire frames in for adjustment either, and wire frames are so easy to bend accidentally.
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As a persons eyes are different from each other I just do not think that I would put on cheap dollar store glasses. Even if just need for reading.
I do have a few around the house from the 2 pr. $69 just to pick up for a second to read something but still I have my expensive ones for Book reading. computer work etc .
Now just hold you hand over one eye and read something and then the other. You will see a little difference. I have perfect vision in left eye but off a little in right.
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The History Channel is showing "The Revolution" series today, an extremely well-done piece of historical documentary.
Jean
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Thanks for mentioning that, JEAN. I'll have a look.
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Thanks, BarbStAubrey, for your recommendation of the two WWI books, Iron Kingsom and Bismark and the German Empire. I've added them to my TBR list.
I'm sorry you have so much stress in your life that you have to carry the drug Rescue with you.
Marj
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Do any of you subscribe to Flavorpill.com newsletter (it's free!)? They do some of the most interesting stuff. A lot I'm not interested in, but the ones I love are those they do on, for example, the world's most beautiful hotels, libraries, train stations, etc. Today they did a fascinating one with photos of the most remote places on earth. Gorgeous photos!
Marj
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Didn't I read here that a couple of you have read THE PRESIDENTS CLUB by Gibbs and Duffy? Well, come on over here and let's have a ball discussing it in September. Don't you think it will be fascinating? Post here:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3327.0
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The BBC have a very interesting article on their website today about photos of old China.
It seems that most of the photos in China itself were destroyed before or during the Cultural Revolution, so those that still exist are outside the country. A Professor Bickers at Bristol University has collected some, but is asking people to look for more - many are in the hands of the families whose grandparents, etc worked in China many years ago. There are already some great photos:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18784990
Rosemary
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I read books on China from about the age of 15. Always thought would love to go there. Many things happened from 1939 changing what I had read. Most things awful.
Now one sees China as it is today. I would still like to go but try find some of the past. Wonder if it could still be found. It is changing more than any other country seems to be.
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Please, count me in. I am finally getting settled in my new home, The last 3 months have been exhauseting and stressful. I will look forward to a good, restful read, and discussion.
Sheila
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In consideration of politics and non-fictional events, here's an "Ooh, how embarassing" news
item. It seems the Romney campaign has been using a piece of music
called "Panic Switch", belonging to a band called Silversun Pickups. The band had
asked that he stop using their music, because they don't like him or his campaign. Their
frontman, Brian Aubert, wrote.."We're nice, approachable people. We won't bite. Unless
you're Mitt Romney!"
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I also thought that was funny, Babi. Good for the Silversun Pickups, altho' I'd never heard of them. Probably will help them sell their music, at least to Democrats. LOL
Marj
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MARJ. ;)
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I'm on a nonfiction kick this week. Book one, Andrew Lang's, Adventures among books. Book two, Scipio Africanus: Greater than Napoleon by B. H. Liddell Hart. I am enjoying Lang's book very much, just started the other.
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Oh, nice to see Adventure Among Books is a Gutenburg book.
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Thanks for that - I'd never heard of 'Adventures Among Books' but I've just got it free on UK Amazon for Kindle.
Rosemary
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I was enjoying the biography of Karen Carpenter and was about to finish it when my dear brother recommended The Amateur by Ed Klein as a "must read". Being the older brother and wanting to set a good example, I immediately downloaded it into my trusted Kindle and am about to finish it also. I have my opinions about this book and its author but choose to withhold them pending the comments of others. I did a minimum amount of research on Klein as I have never heard of him. He has somewhat of a checkered past but has been associated with several recognized publications. I also noted that the book is Number 1 on the NY Times nonfiction best seller list, which only means, of course, that many copies have been sold. Anyway, as an old Carpenters fan I'm anxious to read about the final stages of Karen's life and am looking forward to wrapping up Klein's gem.
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I downloaded "Adventures Among Books" ??? to my Kindle, and I must say it has to be the most boring, ostentatious piece of writing I've had the ?pleasure? to read. I'm so thrilled that the author had "read everything" by "everybody" and was thus enlightened. ::) A couple of the references did pique my interest, and I may do a bit of research and try reading them. I would not hesitate to say that most of what is mentioned would not be available from our libraries, maybe even on-line (perhaps Gutenberg?). After I have bookmarked/highlighted the authors names that interest me, I shall "delete" most happily.
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ha ha to each his own as the saying goes... ;)
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That is one reason I don't think I will ever buy a Kindle or same. So many books one picks up anymore are not worth reading. (Even some of the well known writers are now putting theirs out to fast and bad writing). At least one can return a library book. ( did that with 3 this past week.). Hate to have bought and downloaded them.
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But this one was 'FREE'. And it still disappointed.
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If you don't like a book, you just put it in your archives. It's no longer JEANNE:on your kindle, just the name, so you could get it again if you wanted. MUCH better than buying the turkey, then having to look at it, or find a way of getting rid of it.
You can get a free sample, and read enough that you can decide whether you want to buy it or not. If not, you simply delete it. I didn't bother to do that since this book was free. Haven't looked at it yet: disappointing!
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hmmm reminds me of one of those pithy sayings my Mom was always sharing - you get what you pay for and if it is free welllll - sounds like a roll of the dice.
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I get an e-mail notification from "Pixel of Ink" each day, and they have a multitude of "free" books, with a variety of genres. I have gotten many mysteries from Omnimystery News for my Kindle. Some are good, some are terrible, I have deleted very few. There are even a few authors whose names I recognize! LOL. Admittedly, no "great literature" here for most, but reading for free has its own benefits. I know the library is still free, but if you are looking for something "current"- - forgetaboutit. If you get on a reserve list, it may take you weeks till it gets to you. (and by the way, libraries here are still suffering budget cuts, and aren't able to buy much in the way of new books). Those of us who absolutely love to read will find a way to do so, be it used book stores, Amazon, ThriftBooks, KIndles, Nooks, etc.
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I haven't been disappointed by too many free books I've downloaded of of Gutenberg. I generally check the HTML version online first to see if it reads well before I download. I like the first chapter ofAdventures Among Books but the next looks, like you said, boring. I plan on skimming through to see if anything else in there is interesting before I dump it. Books that are downloaded from Gutenberg or ManyBooks are not archived. Once you delete, they are gone. Nice thing is, if you want to go back to one, it is there to redownload or read online.
Tome, there are several "current" books I am interested in, but the waiting list is still long. I'll wait for them to slow down a little. I used to haunt the closest used bookstore, but I recently discovered that even with postage, I can get some books cheaper through outfits like ABE. However, I am mostly downloading free ebooks or using the library now.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
"Klein's gem" does at least tell us your comments will be positive, JIM. I'll be interested
to see more on the subject...at least who the 'amateur' is.
Thanks for the tip, TOME. It had not been at all clear to me precisely what kind of book
"Adventures..." was, but if it is primarily commentary on the books of 'everybody' I will
not bother. By the way, I think the proper pronunciation if 'fuhgiddaboutit'. Pure Brooklyn! ;D
I have often found I get a clearer view of the history of a period through fiction than
non-fiction. A good historical fiction writer can give you the contemporary perspective as
well as make the history lesson more enjoyable. It just happened again, with Anne Perry's
recent book, "Dorchester Terrace". The book is set in London in the waning days of the
Austro-Hungarian Empire. I now have a much better grasp of the situation in Europe at that
time and Austria's importance as a central core where many varying peoples, cultures, religions
and languages could deal with one another. As it collapsed, WWI was almost inevitable.
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The review from the NYT of The Amateur was strange. It told very little about the book, talked mostly about the author, so i didn't get a sense of how positive or negative it might be. Of course, knowing about Klein does presuppose that it's negative. My belief is that every president is an amateur, there is just no job like it and it's an "on-the-job-training" situation. I think some presidents have more of a knack for politics than others, or personalities that lend themselves, for better or worse, to the job.
I'm amazed at how opponents of Obama can be totally blind to the fact that the Republican House has not just opposed Obama but has blocked everything he's tried to do, that they appear to have no concern for the country, only concern for their party. I understand their belief in a different agenda, that's always been true of oppositions. But the moderates of both parties have generally continued to allow the goverment to operate, that's just not happening. I think the voters must try to figure out what the administration has done outside of the tact of law-making and judge the administration from that small perspective.
Jean
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I appreciate that post, JEAN. I am very much at sea in the world of politics, so I haven't been
aware that the Republicans had a large enough majority to impede the President in everything.
I have been aware that the focus of today's politicians seems to be 'power to the party' rather
than true commitment to the welfare of the country. The obvious solution, for those of us who
support Pres. Obama, is to see that he has more support for the next term. I have never voted
along strict party lines, preferring to take a more independent approach in my choices. However, this might be one election in which support for the President might be the #1 priority.
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Does anyone besides me read The Borowitz Report by Andy Borowitz in the New Yorker? Radical Republicans probably won't find the satire of it amusing, but as a Democrat I often find it hilarious. Speaking of the Republican Convention, today's report was "War on Women Postponed to Tuesday due to Hurricane Isaac."
Speaking of the politcal conventions, today's are so boring. No suspense. You already know who's going to be the nominees. I remember when they were fun to watch. When it took maybe five votes to decide who would be the presidential or vice presidential nominee.
Marj
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On a completely different note, I'm reading "What the Robin Knows" by Jon Young. It is a primer on how to watch nature in such a way that you become part of the world band understand its rhythms, triumphs and tragedies.
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That sounds really interesting, JOANK. I can easily sink into a contented contemplation of
trees and be hypnotized by the sunlight and shadow on the leaves as the breezes blow through.
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Never did finish it but read it most of it in a book store - I thought the bit about the porpoise gathering fish next to a boat disrupting the sea and the birds following the tractor for plowed up goodies was the animal kingdom's version of Shock Doctrine :)
Any book about birds always reminds me of an appointment years ago with a women wanting to sell her deceased Aunt's Condo and in the middle of chatting at her kitchen table I hear birds - look around and cannot figure it out since it was dark outside and the birds were definitely not the sound of a house bird - she noticed my reaction and laughed - she had one of the clocks that on the hour a different bird song fills the air. Later I realized what a great way to learn the song of at least 12 birds.
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No one has posted to this site in some time, so I thought I would tell about a book I'm currently reading. The title is "Manhunt" subtitled The Ten-Year Search for Bin Laden From 9/11 to Abbottabad by Peter L. Bergen. Peter is CNN's national security analyst and a director of the New American Foundation. He has written three previous books on Bin Laden and al-Qaeda. The title "Manhunt" is not to be confused with an earlier book with the same title by James L. Swanson about the search for Lincoln's killer. I can recommend both books as excellent reads.
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I haven't read Manhunt yet, Dean, but put it on my TBR list after your review. And I also have Swanson's book about the hunt for Lincoln's killer on my list.
I read a very good book not long ago about the bin Laden family, GROWING UP BIN LADEN; OSAMA'S WIFE AND SON TAKE US INSIDE THEIR SECRET WORLD by Omar bin Laden and Najwa bin Laden. Fascinating story told by Osama's cousin who became his first wife, and their 4th son, Omar. Osama was a very strange man. 17 children by 4 wives. Kept his home very bare and without any "luxuries" like electricity (Mohammed lived without it, he said). He allowed no toys for his children; took his sons on long hikes in the desert with no water to toughen them up; denied them medical inhalers, altho the boys all had breathing problems with asthma. Yet he bought himself the newest Mercedades-Benz cars to satisfy his craving for fast driving.
Marj
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Hasn't anyone read any good nonfiction books lately?
I have a couple I plan to read, once I get finished with Hilary Mantel's Bring Up the Bodies (very good historical fiction):
THE REVENGE OF GEOGRAPHY; WHAT THE MAP TELLS US ABOUT THE COMING CONFLICTS by Robert D. Kaplan. I found his BALKAN GHOSTS very interesting. Keplan talked about his newest book on BookTV last weekend. A very interesting speaker, he made me want to read his book. One thing I remember was his telling why Israel is so determined that Iran doesn't get the ability to deploy a nuclear bomb. Kaplan said that a nuclear hit on an Amercan or Iranian city, although devastating would not be the end of these countries. However, with Israel about the size of New Jersey, it would not recover from such a hit.
TEARS IN THE DARKNESS; THE STORY OF THE BATAAN DEATH MARCH AND ITS AFTERMATH by Michael Norman. This was recommended in another group. However, I just finished Laura Hillenbrand's book, Unbroken, about a man's horrific trials in a Japanese POW camp, and while it was a very interesting booK, it will be a while until I'm up to another about the Japanese in WW2.
THE LOST BANK; THE STORY OF WASHINGTON MUTUAL--THE BIGGEST BANK FAILURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY by Kirsten Grind. I heard the author on BookTV, and the story was a fastinating one.
Marj
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I've been reading several books about the ancients so to speak - I became curious when I realized and wanted to know why Germany was only unifying in the mid-nineteenth century when France not only unified a few centuries earlier, I'm still scrounging for exactly when, but more, France already had in the late eighteenth century a major revolution temporarily changing the system from a monarchy - how did France become a unified nation with its own identity centuries before Germany, an adjacent land and people, and they were only attempting to do this in the mid nineteenth century.
Quickly it became apparent that the difference in being part of the Roman Empire as opposed to those who most of us were taught were the Barbarians was a factor - so back to the time in history when these so called Barbarians were breaking down the so called gates of Rome.
That was an eye opener in itself that the fall of Rome took over 100 years - and so I have been reading books - and more books -
The Cambridge Illustrated History of Germany -
Gregory of Tours The History of the Franks -
History of the Goths -
The History of the Lombards -
The Carolingian World -
The Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Fall of Prussia -
Before France and Germany: The Creation and Transformation of the Merovingian World -
The Austrians: A Thousand-Year Odyssey -
Early Medieval Europe, 300-1000 -
Western Society and the Church in the Middle Ages -
The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity -
Religious Poverty and the Profit Economy in Medieval Europe -
The Knight, the Lady and the Priest: The Making of Modern Marriage in Medieval France -
God's Crucible: Islam and the Making of Europe, 570-1215
I know - how can she be reading that many books at one time - weelll - I read and there is something I need to know more about and so another book is ordered and I read - then go back to the first book and read more and back and forth between these books as I piece it all together - I didn't want an overview provided by an online article or one history that hits just the author's idea of the high spots plus most authors I find are writing from a viewpoint of their research and chronological history where as I was trying to follow a thread of how did lands located next to each other within the borders we associate with these two powerful nations come to unify and then become democratic with such a dramatic difference in timing.
Of course the early history quickly gets into the Holy Roman Empire and the as I call it the pimping by the Monarchs for the Church and the Church for the Monarchs - interesting when we read The Elephant's Journey, King João III of Portugal suggests he cannot read a message from the Archduke Maximilian that at the time I thought it meant he could not read Latin, the language of Art, Law and the Courts - well it turns out he may not have been able to read at all - that was one of the reasons all these monarchs, up through the seventeenth century, had churchmen running their chancelleries, cabinets, especially the office that collected taxes. The monarchs could not read! Fight wars, yes - Read, no!
Turns out many of the monasteries were set up by the monarchs as places for tax collecting, sorting and building the war chest. Another bit, the Church from its conception believed in education - I could go on and on with new knowledge how and why - and so they were needed to write laws, and run the government - and yet another, I finally found the first and reason for a monarchs to be crowned by the Roman Church and actually in partnership with the Church, in many cases their relationship was like a protectorate (think Puerto Rico) by the Church.
Goes back to the magic believed to be breed into the Merovingian royals and in order to top that magical blood so that a more 'with-it' group could take over, Pepin a Carolingian gets Rome to crown him as king - then he gathers other areas so he could be more important and called Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire therefore, he could be on equal footing with the Byzantine Empire. During the Middle Ages the whole of the powerful in the west was in competition and at times at war with the Byzantine arm and beliefs of the Church. Was Jesus God and Man or just God or just Man - based on your belief you were either in the Roman or Byzantine branch of the church or if you lived in the west and believed God either just God or just a man you were a Heretic doomed to be extinguished. This is state stuff not just church stuff.
This concept of church being the state and the state being the church is so foreign to us that it is difficult to grasp until I start looking closer at the news coming out of the middle east - that has been my benchmark to understand. I had no clue how culturally rich, distinct and intelligent were the group we lumped as Barbarians. The Celts are another whole branch of all this but they moving west across northern Europe did not put as big a thumb print on the land today we call Germany.
This is fascinating stuff and I love knowing how come and when and how did that happen and where did that come from.
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WOW!
I'm browsing through a book called "The English Wars" about the development of the English Language. too much detail to hold my intersest, but the subject is interesting, first in how English replaced french as the official language in Britain (I'd like to read more on that. He treats English as if it was a given language at this point: I always thought it was a mix of the languages before the Norman Conquest and french from the Normans. I wonder what proportion of English words have french (Latin) roots.
He also discussed attempts to reform English spelling (he's against it) and grammar. With grammar he argues that grammarians teach English grammer as if it was Latin. But since English is not an inflected language like Latin (E relies on word order rather than different endings to tell you the function of the word) you don't need all that analysis to make a clear sentance.
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Interesting posts, Barb and JoanK. I know what you mean, Barb, about one book or subject leading to another and pretty soon you have a whole bunch of them you're looking at. I wish I'd had a better background in world history. Can't believe I didn't take one course in it in high school or university. Right now I'm taking a long time reading Bring up the Bodies because the Tudor period is so interesting, and I keep looking things up.
Joan, I'm for changing some English spelling too, but I'm afraid it will not happen. One word that irritates me is "read," being the same for present and past tense. And a whole bunch of others that must confuse people no end who are trying to learn our language.
Marj
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" And a whole bunch of others that must confuse people no end who are trying to learn our language."
Oh, yes! I would hate to have to learn English as a second language!
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I'm currently reading an interesting nonfiction book, BAILOUT by Neil Barofsky, (236 pp) re Barofsky's appointment as special inspector general in charge of oversight of the spending of the government bailout money, and how his efforts to protect against fraud were met with outright hostility from the Treasury officials in charge of the bailouts. The stories he tells are fascinating, about his former job as a U.S. Attorney, where in Colombia he was putting together a case against the FARC narcotics terrorist group and how he missed being killed when they put a hit on his life, and stories of his job Washington What an eye opener about what goes on there in Washington! A page turner.
Marj
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Hardly surprising, tho', MARJ. Wouldn't it be a wonder of miraculous proportions, if we could remove greed
and the lust for power from the halls of government. Of course, that removes any motivation for most of
humanity to take on that heavy chore. :P :'(
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I'm reading two very good non-fiction books.
Coco Channel:an intimate life by Lisa Chaney and Setting a Course: Amer'n Women in the 1920s. ed. Dororthy Brown which turns out to be one of a series about women in each of the decades of the twentieth century, a project of the Schlesinger Library at Radcliff. I know our library doesn't have them all, but i will be asking for them to do an interlibrary search for me - one at a time, of course :D
Interesting bit of onfo: Chanel had started to make her "practical" less ornate clothes in the pre WWI era, they were generally considered "sporty". When WWI began and materal was less available and rich people wanted to dress with less ostentation her clothes were perfect, so she made a bundle of money during the war and her reputation exploded.
I'm also reading Clara and Mr Tiffany - don't know how i missed the discussion a few months ago, altho i'm reading thru the discussion now - it is fiction, but of the similar time as the two books above. One of the links that is in the discussion was how bicycles brought women a feeling of control and freedom. Isn't that an interesting thought?
The 20s book is talking about how the pro-protective labor legislation for women was disputed by women's groups in favor of equality w/ men. The pro legislation group feared an Equal Rights Amendment would take away labor rts that women had won - 91/2 hr day, no working between 12:00 and 6:00 am, etc. the pro ERA people argued that some of thse jobs were the best paid and women may lose jobs if the protective legislation was in place. It was an interesting dispute, i'm not sure which side i wld have been on at the time. Of course, much of the protective legislation that was first put in place for women was eventually applied to all workers.
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JEAN, I wonder how they managed to decide in which decade each woman should be featured.
After all, most of them must have had active lives spanning more than one decade.
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Babi - it's focused on events and individual woman are discussed based on their involvement in events of the time. I.e. the first chapters were about women and politics after having won the vote; the next section was about women and work; the current section i'm reading is about women and domesticity. I think it's very interesting.
I know most of the info on a superficial basis and in some depth due to my women's history studies. But every book i read, i learn something new or a new perspective on what i know.
Jean
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Ah, I see. That's a sensible way to approach it. How did you first become interested in women in history and society, JEAN?
It appears to have been a lifelong interest. I've noted how many of the very intelligent people here have some particular
subject or venue that is a paticular focal point for them.
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I think my interest in women's her-stories is innate, if that is possible. I use that term "herstory" because i really see history as stories of people. As i think back, my first "women stories" were read in the Nancy Drew mysteries. I remember during my sophomore year in high school reading a novel about Josephine - Napoleon's wife. I was very interested in history. My parent's were 50 and 42 when i was born, so my father had been in WWI, They survived the Depression, and talked a lot about FDR and Truman and what was happening in politucal events. I majored in history in college.
The distinct time of my interest in women, of course, began in the 60s. My husband(whom i met in 1961) says i was always a feminist, but i began to hear the swirl of info around me from the media about the contemporary women's movement. Specifically, in 1970, i had to quit teaching at four months of pregnancy - altho i strung it out to 6 months - and was at home, bored to death. I went to the county library and began to read through the bios of women. Here i was, a graduate w/ a degree in history, had taught high school history for 7 years, using the typical high school history texts and other than wives of presidents knew only about a dozen names of women in Amer history.
I found women i had never heard of - Emily Green Balch, the first Amer'n WOMAN NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER, along w/ Jane Addams who i knew as the founder of Hull House, but NEVER heard she was a NPP winner !?! I learned about Elizabeth Blackwell, first woman graduate of medical school in the US, i learned abt two Josephine Bakers - one a famous self-made singer/dancer of the early 20th century, the other another early women physician who started the concept of school nurses, princably to catch epidemics as they began, and on and on. And i've never stopped learning women's history.
Fortunately i've lived my last 4 decades in a time when historians have been digging up and writing, or rewriting about women throughout history. How wonderful!
Jean
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Jean, thanks for your post. I discovered women's history in the 60s,too. It was never taught in my education classes. What little I did know was acquired from reading, and movies. A few years ago my grandaughter wrote a paper on Alice Paul. I had never heard of her. I think it is disgraceful, that until the 1960s, women's history was totally ignored, in our educational system.
Sheila
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Jean, while reading your post - on how your interest in women's history was born, researching biographies during your pregnancy, my curiosity makes me ask - was the baby a girl?
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Yes, Joan, as a matter of fact it was, a beautiful, good, baby girl who sleep thru the night at 3 months, was never seriously sick, didn't go thru the terrible twos.......i was afraid to have a second one, i just knew i'd have to pay my dues. ;D That one was a boy and other then having some allergies and not sleeping thru the night for almost a year, was a pretty good child also.
Our daughter, JoEllyn, grew up to join the Alice Paul Institute Board of Directors and since she is in banking became the treasurer of the board - made Mom very proud that she would follow my interest. As a Senior v.p. at her bank she mentors young women in their careers. BTW, both children went w/ me to the press conference of our first big event in 1985, Alice Paul's centennial year, where Sally Ride was one of the honerees, and they met Sally Ride.
Our son is a high school teacher and football coach and two years ago had a girl on his team who he played in two of their games. Even though he coaches football, basketball is his first love and he is a big fan of Pat Summit, coach of the Lady Volunteers of Tennessee, Maryz' favorite team.
We're Very proud of both of them.
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You should be. (I'm a big fan of Pat Summit, too.
I've been watching the women's pro basketball playoffs. One athelite, when interviewed, said that when she was a child, before the pro league, she had no one to look up to as a role model. So she was very proud when she looked in the stands and saw so many young girls with their basketball shirts on.
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A book that gives wonderful stories of women who have succeeded against incredible odds is "Half the Sky". It's proposed for our November book. I really recommend it! It talks about the unbelievably horrible conditions that women face in some developing countries, but does so by telling stories of individual women who overcame those conditions to help other women.
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And we got to watch two of our favorite Lady Vols in the WNBA playoffs last night - Kara Lawson and Tamika Catchings. It's a shame one of them had to be on the losing team.
Hooray for your son, Jean - having girls on his teams.
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My first baby, also a girl, was also easy to care for. Unlike you, I did not have the
sense to fear this wasn't a norm. I thought, "Hey, there's nothing to this!" Then I
had two more children and became a wiser woman. My second...also a boy...was colicky to
the point my husband threatened to go to a hotel so he could get some sleep.
Today, however, I am blessed with three loving, caring children. Worth every minute of it.
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Babi: and it was my girl who was colocky. I remember my husband and I congradulating ourselves that we had had three hours sleep the night before -- the most we had had in two weeks!
If he had said "Bye, I'm going to a hotel, I would have either divorced him or murdered him! the only thing that saved me is that he could spell me sometimes.
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He didn't actually go, JOAN. He was just griping. I could certainly sympathize with that!
::)
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I'm reading an interesting book about the Dust Bowl. It's The Worst Hard Times: the untold story of those who survived the great American Dust Bowl by Timothy Egan . I knew there was such a thing, of course, but this really brings this to life. I had no idea how much of the whole thing was man-made.
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Mary can you explain a little about it being "man-made"?
Jean
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The prairie had lasted forever through winds,drought, floods, fires, etc. When the settlers came in and started to plow up the prairie grasses, at first they had good crops. Then as prices went up, speculators got involved and got people to plow up more and more of the prairie. Once all the native grasses were gone, there was nothing to hold the soil in place when the inevitable droughts happened. And then there was a terrible multi-year drought, and all the soil blew away.
This was the stuff of John Steinbeck's book, The Grapes of Wrath; when a lot of those folks fled to CA, etc.
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Thanks for that info, Mary. I thought that's what had happened, but just wondered if there was new information.
Jean
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Timothy Egan's book, The Worst Hard Time, (340 pp, 2006) will be discussed in November in the Yahoo book discussion group, All_Nonfiction. They always have a lively discussion. I'm planning to read it.
Marj
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The book mentions a documentary that was made called "The Plow that Broke the Plains". It's available from Netflix as part of a series of documentaries about the Depression. I've ordered it and moved it to the top of my list.
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Thank you for that, Mary, it's on YouTube, too and is most interesting. I've been wanting to read that book for ages. They keep saying another Dust Bowl is coming. I hope your surgery goes well, I hate to think of you in pain all this time since your accident.
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Thanks for the good wishes, ginny (and everybody else). It doesn't hurt most of the time, but I'm very careful about what I do. And my range of motion is very limited. The replacement should increase the motion - not to what it was before - but at least better. Anyhow, I'm ready!
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I finished the Coco Chanel book, what an interesting story. Chaney jam packed it with detail, writing in small print for 400 pages. Coco had very different responses to the two WW's. As i said earlier she was well positioned with her clothes to make money during the 1st WW. In the second she, of course, had to move out of Paris, so she closed her clothing shop, leaving only a shop for her jewelry and perfumes, even though the authorities begged her to stay to give her employees jobs and basically shut down business, making little money.
She was an interesting woman who would be called independent, but it was
an independency of societal mores. She was smart about using male friend's, often lover's, money to get her business started and then to expand. I guess if she was a man we would call it capitalism and good use of invester's money.
She knew many interesting European people of the mid-19th century - Stravinsky, Picasso, etc. some of whom were lovers of hers.
Jean
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Just another note on Coco Chanel......one of the most interesting parts of the book was the description of occupied France in WWII and the decisions that people made, whether to stay or leave, whether to have interaction with the Germans particularly a problem for business people, whether to give info to either the Nazis or the allies. And then there was the reaction from the rest of society, which could be positive or negative, regardless of which decision was made. Coco rode sort of a middle road, i won't spoil it for you in case you want to read it. But it is interesting to contemplate what decisions i would make to survive.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
The last nonfiction book I read was The Swerve. In my mail today came a brochure from "Classical Purursuits" an educational travel program run by St. Michael's University in Toronto. One of the offerings is a week-long seminar on the Swerve. My son, completing his Ph.D. in Classics, wants to read it with whatever time he has left over after requirements
It had so much in it, I know I will read it again.
Did anyone see the PBS interview with Bill Ivey about his new book, Handmaking America"? I would like to read it, althought I am quite sure that he will be dismissed as an idealistic kook. He sounds like the WilliamMorris of the technological age.
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I see that our library has The Swerve. I'll pick it up next time. I finished Setting a Course: American Women in the 1920s. It was very good. It is part of a series published, i think, in the 1980s and 90s, each book covering a decade of the 20th century. I mentioned it before, but having finished it, i was very impressed. It was academic in research and detail, but very readable. The chapters are on specific issues: the "new woman", work, education, religion - a very interesting chapter to me, because it gave me a lot of new info, culture - a large section on women in literature, etc. I will look for the other books in the series.
I am almost finished w/ Wild, a memoir of a young woman, Cheryl Strayed, who made some really bad decisions in her young life, was devastated by the death of her mother and then impulsively decided to hike the Pacific Coast Trail alone. It has been on the NYT best-seller list for months. She is the epitome of the feelings most of us have of the dichotomy of courage/self-confidence vs doubting who she is and what she is capable of. it is compelling reading, but sometimes i just want to smack her (symbolically) and say "Think!" For instance, she made almost no preparation for this tremedous hike, no physical training, no studying about what previous hikers suggested, etc. I reccommend it anyway.
I see she has a novel coming out this month.
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Isn't it great when those times come around that you have several books to read, and they're
all good! Especially when you've been through a period of unfinished 'blah', and 'who cares' books. :P
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Have you ever visited the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington D.C.? I remember that as one of the most emotional experiences of my visit there.
Per the Today in Literature newsletter, the memorial wall was didicated 30 years ago today. At first controversial, Maya Lin's momument has now become the most visited war memorial in the U.S. People have left notes and mementoes by the memorial, some 100,000 of them now collected by the Smithsonian. A sampling of these mementoes can be found in books such as SHRAPNEL FROM THE HEART by Laura Palmer and LETTERS ON THE WALL by Michael Sofarelli.
The newsletter printed a couple of these letters:
"Well here you are, making another lasting impression on me and everyone else who sees you! I love you so much. I have dreamed of the day you’ll come home and finally be my Dad…. I’m 23 now! I sure look a lot different from six years old. You’d be very proud of me. They say I’m a lot like you. I can see it too. I have never forgotten you. I knew you were Santa Claus, but I didn’t want to spoil it for you. Your daughter, Sheri
How, my son, do I say farewell? The red roses you ordered for Mother’s Day, 1968, for me, were just beautiful. It was as if in all finality, you were thanking me and telling me of the love we shared together. The red paint on the big tree where you sprayed your hot rod engine is fading away. Dad will always cherish the railroad watch you left in his car. Your tools are just as you left them in the garage…. America has had no better than you, and you were ours. Your Mom"
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Oh, MARJ, I don't think I could read those books. The two notes you shared were enough to bring tears to my eyes. Just
too heartbreaking.
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I felt that way too about those letters, Babi. Lovely, but so sad. And my heart ached when I saw the memorial in D.C. with all those names on it and people reaching up to touch a name with tears in their eyes.
Marj
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That memorial is one of the strongest memories of Washington D.C. Another is the Korean War memorial. We saw both at night.
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I got The Swerve yesterday at the library.
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If you go to see the movie LINCOLN, a Spielberg production, you may remember our discussion of the book on which it is based in part.
TEAM OF RIVALS by Doris Kearns Goodwin:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=271.0
Great book, a complicated one to discuss but we took our time, I think it may have taken us 6 weeks or so, as I remember.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but hope to Sunday or MOnday.
Has anyone seen it?
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I haven't seen the movie Lincoln yet. Am waiting for the reviews. It's 2-1/2 hours long, so I may wait for the Netflix version. I saw part of an advertisemet for it, and it sounded like they gave Lincoln a high voice -- not sure I'd like that.
Marj
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I have been reading THE WORST HARD TIME by Timothy Egan. It's a really great story of the 1930s dust bowl in Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska. I just heard that PBS TV is doing that story of it this coming Sunday, Nov. 18, so I'm definitely going to watch it.
Marj
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marjifay, I was just going to post about The Worst Hard Times, too. We've just finished reading it - very powerful. I knew the Ken Burns piece about The Dust Bowl was going to be on tomorrow and Monday. We saw a promo for it on PBS last night. Timothy Egan (author of The Worse Hard Times) had a lot to do with the documentary, too. We'll definitely be watching (and/or recording).
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I read The Worst Hard Time some time ago and found it very interesting. I've also seen the PBS program and it draws a lot from the book. Mr. Egan is one of their go to people. Seldom do I like seeing something based on a book I've read but this is an exception. I recommend doing both as they complement each other. If I don't have a conflict I will probably watch the PBS program again.
Mary
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I am reading an old book called Acadian Exiles. The author's name escapes me at the moment. So far, it is giving me a better understanding of the area of conflict and what were the causes of the conflict. Not unsurprisingly, it includes treaties that changed territorial boundaries, agreements not honored or that were distorted by governing authorities so as to deprive the original settlers of their due process or their land and property. Example: The treaty included a provision that Acadians that did not want to swear allegiance to the English king be allowed to migrate to the newly established French territories. The local authorities, for the most part, did not allow them to take any of their possessions nor would they provide (or in some cases) allow ships to transport them.
The English at first thought they needed the French population to provide for provisions to the garrisons and as a buffer against Indian incursions. Later, the old Protestant/Catholic came into play. Many French were willing to pledge to the King of England, but the English were very suspicious that the French Catholic priests were subverting or undermining their authority. Of course, both sides had their Indian allies or Indians who took advantage of the conflict for their own reasons.
These conflicts were precursers to what became the French and Indian War.
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Hi Frybabe,
I will write the title down. I'll bet the book is interesting. Thanks.
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Thanks for that interesting nugget of history, FRYBABE. About all I knew about Acadians was
that many of them migrated to Louisiana, that this was the basis of the classic, "Evangeline",
and that 'Acadian' is the source of the word 'Cajun'. Reading/hearing about the sort of
machinations you describe always gets me angry, and I know it happens all the time.
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Acadian Exiles sounds very interesting, Frybabe. Could you give the author's name!
Marj
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I've been downloading a few Canadian histories and novels lately. Now that I went back and looked, I can tell you that the book is Volume 9 of the Chronicles of Canada. The full title of the volume is The Acadian Exiles: A Chronicle of the Land of Evangeline written by Arthur G. Doughty.
Apparently the Eastern part of New France, though not well defined at that time, included parts of Maine and Quebec, and all of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island. Cape Breton Island is involved there somewhere also.
Gotta run and let George in.
PS: this volume was published in 1916. got it from either Project Gutenberg or ManyBooks.
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Ella, maybe you should ask your question about watching and discussing the U of Houston (?)lectures here on this site. Did you get any off-line responses? I watched the first two of America:identity, culture and power, and altho his presentation was not so good, the information was very interesting.i haven't looked at the others.
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Thank you, Frybabe.
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Hi Hats, so nice to have you posting. Happy Thanksgiving!
Jean
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Hi Mabel,
I'm glad to see you too. I hope you enjoy Thanksgiving too.
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JEAN, no responses for discussing the lectures.
I have on reserve two books at the library; DETROIT CITY THE PLACE TO BE by Binelli and a new one on the history of the iron cutain - by Anne Applebaum. I thought if I liked the print (bold and not too small) and the first 10 pages of either, I might buy them for my TBR table. I did pick up one I had on reserve and it looks very very good - THE END OF YOUR LIFE BOOK CLUB by Schwalbe. I've read the first 25 pages, not sad, its a discussion of books between a son and his mother who has cancer. Already I have made a list of 10 books to read and before I finish it I will have a long long list.
This is a fiction but wonderful - THE LIGHT BETWEEN THE OCEANS by Stedman about a lighthouse keeper. Anyone read that one?
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Hi Ella,
I've had my eye on The End Of Your Life Book Club too.
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Heyyyyyy! I was just looking at The End Of Your Life Book Club a few minutes ago. Great minds and all that, I guess.
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Isn't that amazing??? :)
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There are only 53 people on the reserve list ahead of me at my library. I think that's because they have several copies of the book on order, but they are not "in the collection" just yet. Well, I'm on the list!
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"The light between the Oceans" ordered. I am number 33 at our library .Will see where I will be on the "End of your life".
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Let us know about "The light between". Like many, I'm fascinated by lighthouses. the one near me doesn't have a keeper anymore: it's run electronically.
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I trust you all will forgive if I frequently post here (also in LIbrary) about a book that is not a "new" or "current" book. I am currently reading "Washington Schlepped Here" by Christopher Buckley. Chris is such a gem! If you have been to D. C. you will appreciate this book; if you have never been (I haven't) you will really like this book. It is funny, informational and pointedly reminds one of their lack of education (classical -"Ozymandius"? I looked it up, had actually read it). I feel like I need to hop on the first flight out to D. C. and take tours, and do my own tours!! It's not a lengthy book. If you read it in bed, someone will hear you laughing!
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Since I was born and spent most of my life in Washington, I have to get that book! It's a beautiful city: you'll love it if you go, Tome.
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Thanks Tomereader1 for the information of the Christopher Buckley book about Washington, DC. I have been to DC but have found nothing to laugh about, so far. Perhaps this book will change things. I hope our library has a copy.
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;D You're just confusing the city with the politicians who work there, DEAN. Much of the
architecture is truly very fine and worth seeing. (We humans are seldom quite so grand. ::))
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I ordered it from Amazon. Figure I can read it and pass it along to PatH, who's still in the Washington area. (don't tell her).
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Not every page has a "funny". One thing is certain, the politicians of their day were just as irascible as those of today, and it is a wonder anything ever got agreed upon or built.
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I read about 3-4 chapters of the END OF YOUR LIFE BOOK CLUB every night and then go on to fiction sometimes. It's not a depressing book, it just takes time to read as I write down books and read some things over a couple of times (I have two long posit notes full of TBR books). I think you will all enjoy it, if not, go on, there are so many good books to read, one of which is
THE LIGHT BETWEEN THE OCEANS by Stedman. I know you will like that one.
Finally, my reserved book - MADISON VS. MONROE, FOUNDERS RIVALRY - is waiting for me at the library. I'll have to look up the author, but if it's good, I might propose we discuss in next year. NEXT YEAR, how quickly they are passing by.
As TOMEREADER said, this rivaly, this bitter campaigning, has been going on since our country was founded; although George Washington got by without it. I don't think we have ever discussed OLD GEORGE, THE FATHER, have we? We should do that someday
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Founding Rivals: Madison vs. Monroe, The Bill…by Chris DeRose
That's the name of the book and the author, and I would buy it from Amazon for $11.18 but I have to see a book first. If it is in fine print I can't read it. Most books I can, particuarly if I just read a few chapters at a time, but fine print and lines too close together are beyond me.
I read a few paragraphs of it on Amazon and it reads well, sounds interesting. Those two presidents have not been written about often.
Read about the author here:
http://www.amazon.com/Chris-DeRose/e/B0052XW0NU/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1354496882&sr=1-2-ent
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I've tried 3 different nights to watch Mankind:the Story of all of Us. Well, the title is half right, it is about MANkind and not humankind. There are almost NO women in this version of history. And the subtitle would be more accurately "the story of conquest and violence." i think it has been made for 15 yr old boys.
It's sad, a missed opportunity to show television viewers how interesting world history has been. They have wonderful animation - like in building the China Wall and cathedrals. But 90% of it is showing cruelty, killing and conquest. Arrrggghhh! I guess The History Channel really has become the GUY channel.
Jean
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Jean like everything else it is according to who is writing the show and who is producing the show
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A couple of nonfiction books that look interesting by an author whose politices I don't care for, are books by Bill O'Reilly on the killing of Kennedy and Lincoln. They seem to be getting good reviews, but perhaps from people who like FOX TV. Has anyone read them? I have the one on Lincoln on hold at the library.
Marj
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
We watched a fascinating documentary tonight.
The Rape of Europa is a 2007 documentary based on a book of the same name by Lynn H. Nichols. The envelope from Netflix says “Joan Allen narrates this documentary that chronicles 12 years of the Nazis’ pillaging works of art throughout Europe and the international effort to locate, protect and return millions of valuable treasures. The film traces the story of art lovers and everyday heroes who tried to thwart the looting Nazis and reveals how experts from Europe and the United States are working to recover priceless works of art missing or hidden for decades.”
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Maryz that sounds really interesting.
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That does sound good, MARYZ. In a recent book (fiction) that I read it said
there is also a very profitable fraud racket going on selling bogus 'recovered' art
treasures. Did this documentary discuss the issue of Swiss banks continuing to
hide such treasures placed in their vaults? I don't know if that legal issue has
been resolved or not.
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Maryz, does the title have anything to do with the mosaic of that same name from the Villa San Marco in Stabiae, Italy?
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Babi, I don't remember their mentioning anything about the Swiss banks and the thefts. One good story was about the Salt Lake City Art Museum returning a painting to the heir of its owner just a few years ago. The museum had bought the painting in good faith, and when the situation was discovered, thought returning it was the only honorable thing to do.
ginny, I don't know about the title. I know about the work of art. I haven't seen the book, just the documentary. It may be mentioned in the book somewhere.
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The "Rape of Europa" movie is very, very interesting, but there is a book out by the same name, showing everything you saw in the documentary, and more. Your library may have a copy, or get an inter-library loan, it's worth it.
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MaryZ there were several PBS programs on this issue
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nazis/readings/sinister.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/july-dec09/monuments_11-16.html
http://www.pbs.org/therapeofeuropa/about/
http://article.wn.com/view/2008/11/24/The_Rape_of_Europa_on_PBS_great_art_in_the_grip_of_the_Nazis/
And even CBS did a show on Rescuing Nazi looted art
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-3755983/rescuing-nazi-looted-art/
Here are two stories of art being returned
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/29/getty-museum-to-return-pa_n_842214.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/18/stolen-painting_n_1433793.html
Here is a list of stolen paintings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stolen_paintings
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Great sites, Barb. I've read and seen a number of things about the issue - just thought this was a good piece and wanted to recommend it.
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Glad you did - on this day it seems appropriate to share how this is an issue brought to our attention by many good journalists - The losses are so great that you have to wonder how those living get on with the reminders of what their life was before - they endured every degradation the mind could conceive. Did I read recently that the last survivor living in Israel had died?
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When I lived in Israel in the sixties, I knew many of those survivors, and saw the scars they carried with them (visable and invisable) throughout their lives.
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I admire the museums integrity, MARYZ. It was the proper thing to do, but it must have been a costly decision. It would be satisfying to read that the crooks
responsible for the theft or those who handled the marketing were identified and
prosecuted.
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Here is the reason we all love to read and then chat about what we read...... It gets our "good" juices going in our brains.......this is an interesting article about neurohistory - how striving for those good feelings effected history! This is very intriguing.
http://hnn.us/articles/history-meets-neuroscience
Jean
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Mabel: that's fascinating. And scary! We are all addicted to reading because it releases dopomines?
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A fascinating article, JEAN. I read far more of it than I intended; it was so
engrossing. And it makes such perfect sense. I do want to learn more about this
new 'neurohistory'.
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Babi, here are several links from the History News Network on "neurohistory."
http://hnn.us/articles/insights-social-sciences-and-life-sciences-relevant-history
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My husband and I watched on Netflix that documentary recommended here "The Rape of Europa", and found it most interesting. I had read about the art recovered for their rightful owners but didn't realize the extent of the terrible pillage by the Nazis. Thanks Maryz and Tome, I believe.
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Glad you liked it, FlaJean.
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A terrific site, JEAN. Does 'Network' mean they also have a TV channel? There are references to many subjects I would enjoy knowing more about. I don't do much 'reading' on-line. It's time-consuming, and Val needs the computer for her job. Meanwhile, I've jotted down some names and references for follow-up. Thanks for introducing HNN.
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No, BABI, sorry, no tv channel. The newsletter is a collection of articles from and about historians. Altho they do show a listing of CPANs History TV and sometimes other "history things" on tv. I enjoy the newsletter and scan a little everyday.
Jean
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Ah, well. I will still keep alert for further news on this fascinating new branch of
'history'. A happy combination of two subjects that interest me: history and the human
brain/mind.
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Catherine the Great:
After a slow start, crowede with the family ties of a host of German and Russian families, the teenage German girl finally gets to Russia as the prospective bride of the heir to the throne. Then things get really interesting, with many excerpts from Catherine's own memoirs. anoterh triumph for Robert Massie, I never thought he could top Nicholas and Alexandra, or Peter the Great.
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Are all Massie's biographies about Russian royalty, BELLE? Has he ever said why
his interest is focused there? I'm guessing his own studies have made him an
expert in that particular area.
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Massie does seem to have a thing for royalty, especially Russian royalty. Four of his books are on Russian royalty. His son was born with hemophelia which is what kicked off his interest in the Romanov family. His book (written with his former wife), Journey, is about raising his son and the differences between French and US health care systems at the time. I didn't realize that Catherine the Great: Portrait of a Lady was just new in 2011.
BTW, his son, Massie IV, is also an author, politician, and Episcopal priest. He ran for Senate in 2011, but gave up the race when Elizabeth Warren entered. His new book, out this year, is A Song in the Night: A Memoir of Resilience.
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I have read Massie's Peter the Great and his Dreadnaught; Britain, Germany and the Coming of the Great War. Very good. I will add his Catherine the Great to my future reading list.. Thanks, Bellemare.
Marj
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Interesting what can open a door of interest in a person's life, FRYBABE. Thanks
for the information on Massie. I was especially interested in the son's successful
life. I had a SIL with hemophilia, an extremely bright young man, but with problems in socializing. He unfortunately died at a comparatively early age.
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There was a good older bio of Catherine. I owned it decades ago, but i think i put it in the library book sale and don't have it any more. It s a fascinating story. I assume a new bio would have new information.
I asked for the two new books on "introverts" from library loan. I just got the first one "Introvert Power". I read about 30 pages last night, it speaks to me. :)
I did a lot of training of managers and employees in personality types. Everyone seeing me in the front of the groups and facilitating discussions was always surprised when i said i was an introvert. But i definitely need my introspective time and a favorite part of my teaching and training was doing the research - all by myself. Of course, there is a large mythology that introverts are "antisocial", sitting in the corner, being shy. We may sit in the corner, but we're observing what is going on and are not at all lonely and bored. Also, there are varying degrees of introversion and extroversion and we all have some of each. The biggest difference is that those who are more introverted give out energy when interacting with others and extraverts get energized by interaction with others. Therefore, introverts need to be alone and recoup some energy, to mull over what has been happening, to be introspective. Our extraverted friends and family don't understand because they would be bored and lonely by themselves in short order. We are very comfortable w/ ourselves - unless we've bought the American mythology that one must be outgoing and social all the time, then we may feel guilty about taking our me-time.
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I was surprised when living abroad to find that one of the stereotypes about Americans is that they need to be with others all the time or they are bored. I don't know if There are more extroverts among Americans or if that's because Americans are usually seen in tour groups.
I'm definately an introvert, needing a balance in my life between alone time and time with others. Too much either way makes me unhappy. That balance is very hard to acheive as a working person. Now, in retirement, I come closest.
Interesting about giving off energy versus receiving it. I never thought of that. I'll bet you're right.
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Mabel, I appreciate your comments about introverts. The description fits me perfectly. I sometimes struggle to keep from getting annoyed with my extrovert friends who think it's weird that I like being alone for long stretches of time.
Even on tours, I would sometimes skip a sightseeing excursion just to have some "alone" time in which I didn't have to "sparkle".
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Another interesting distinction between people is those who are inner motivated and those who are outer motivated.
Years ago, we were in a group that got to talking about a then-upcoming Olympics. The group almost immediately polarized into those who felt that athletes competed in order to hear the roar of the crowd and receive the adulation; and those who felt that such athletes had to be responding to inner compulsions to better previous times/distances/whatever. Neither side could believe anyone would work that hard for the "rewards" the other side believed to be the motivation. It really surprised us to hear how positive each side was. John and I were more believers in the inner motivation, but could see how the others could think what they did. The "outer motivation" people felt the "inners" were either lying to the world or to themselves if they professed an inner motivation. It was fascinating.
Guess that's sort of up there with the introvert/extrovert dichotomy. I, too, have to have both, but probably need more alone time than "public".
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Mary: that's fascinating! Given the amount of time atheletes spend training without a crowd, I'd think they would need some inner rewards. But maybe they have a crew that cheers them on when they're training.
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Bingo, Jean.
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JEAN, I so much appreciate your comments on introverts. I tend to be a 'loner' and
always saw it as a shortcoming. Nevertheless, as you said, I find my introspective
times very sustaining and helpful. I was startled by the statement that introverts
'give out energy' when interacting with others, but the more I think about it, the
more it appears that could be true.
Reading the following posts, it appears that introverts may predominate among this
group of bookies. Wouldn't you all say that an on-line discussion offers the perfect
medium for 'introvert' friends? They can come in an 'sparkle' when they want to,
and not be faulted if they don't.
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Joan, when i was first doing training in personality types, introverts were thought to be about a third of the population. In 1997 Myers-Briggs, the mother ship of personality types, did a huge survey and now say that introverts are slighty over 50% of the population. The descrepency seems to have come about because we have become an extroverted society: we are expected to be outgoing and social, we work in teams - even in kindergarden, the cocktail party/happy hour is expected to be a fun, loud group experience, the salesperson must be outgoing and friendly, we are expected to want to join the PTA, the jr league, the lions club, etc. So, introverts adapt and often look like extroverts, or for a short time ARE extroverted, but then must go away and recoup some energy.
Mary, that was a very interesting discussion and very well mayhave been a division of E's and I's. E's look outside of themselves for stimulation, I's go inside of their brains. It has now even been shown that I's brains are more active when they appear to be quiet than E's brains. Of course, the second category of personality types is how do you like to take in information? The sensing types get information thru their senses - what did they feel, hear, taste, smell, experience. Intuitive types tend to say "what if" and rely more on what they sense. So, those who were opting for "the crowd response" may have been S types who would want to hear, see and feel the crowd response. The N type (an I has been already used for introvert, so the N is used for intuitive) may be happier with knowing the results for themselves.
The point to remember is that we all are some combination of the two, the question is which do we prefer and how much do we prefer it. I am a 60/40 introvert. I have had two friends who were 90/10 extroverts. It is not uncommon for us to gravitate to the opposite type, altho it can become hazardous in marriages if the two don't appreciate the strengths of the other type. What seemed entertaining while dating can drive one crazy 24/7. "Why does she have to talk every issue to death?" (Es talk though their problems in order to understand them, Is want to understand their problems before talking about them.)"How come she sits in a corner at a party and wants to go home at 11:00 when the party is just getting started?" ( he's gotten energy from the party, she's expended her energy.) A woman in one group i was working with said "i should have done this before i got married the first time. I thought he hated all my friends, he always wanted to leave a party." she was probably a 90/10 E and was always looking for the next party. It served her well, she owned a very successful beauty salon.
Yes Babi, i would guess that a lot of people on seniorlearn are Is. It's not intrusive, we come on when we want; it's about an introspective activity - reading; we can feel like a community, but not be overwhelmed by stimuli. Your point is well taken about "not being faulted if we don't", Is often are guilt tripped by Es -who don't understand us - who think we are being snobs because we don't want to go to lunch with them everyday, or want to sit on the side and observe. Pity the poor I child who is told "stop reading, go play w/ the others" or is driven from basketball to dance lessons, to play group.
It's a fascinating study. The other type categories have to do with how you make decisions -feeling or thinking/considering people or things in your decision making, and how structured you like to be - do you like to keep your options open or do you have an agenda/list you must follow?
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Here's the Amazon link to the book i'm reading
http://www.amazon.com/Introvert-Power-Inner-Hidden-Strength/dp/1402211171
The hot book on the topic at the moment is Quiet by Susan Cain. I'll get you a link......
http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352145
The reviews of both books are very interesting. There are a lot of us out there! Lol
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Very interesting, Jean, the discussion on introverts. I am definitely an introvert but have always been interested in what is going on around me. I've noticed whenever attending a small group lecture, etc., the speaker sort of "hones in" on me, and I suppose she/he senses my interest. Sadly, I've noticed that I've become more of an introvert as I have grown older. I say sadly because I have to push myself to interact more with others, and I depend more and more for fellowship with my family and husband.
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I was surprised, Babi, to see you refer to yourself as an introvert. From your thoughtful and interesting posts, I would have guessed you to be very a very outgoing person.
I wouldn't place myself somewhere between that and an extrovert. I have no trouble talking with strangers, and find that once you can get someone talking you find they have very interesting things to say, especially if they are readers/and thoughtful people.
Marj
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Introvert extravert never did know or thought about it except I do know I need me time and lots of it - I thought it was because I live alone but I realize I always had my time - I would bicycle to my spots - and take the dog for a walk to get out of the fray and thank god for nap time when the children where young and I often stayed up too late just to have some time - not really to do anything - not even to read so much as just be with myself and sometimes to just look around and enjoy the home I created or the place I was walking. And yes, I get tense to the point of a stress headache often because it is an effort to be with others - always watching my Ps and Qs to say things that will not disagree unless it is really important. Always measuring and watching and listening and adjusting what I say - but I was like that since I was a young child.
As to groups of Americans traveling - it is often cheaper so it enables folks to travel who only travel a few times in their life and many do not like to experience a new place without a guide that a travel group affordably provides - it is also a handicap that we do not speak a variety of languages therefore to have someone to share our observations and share some fun a group offers us some temporary friends, who we may not know but there is some things in common if only our language - I think anyone in Europe that sees this as a problem has not traveled to the US to know and understand our culture but they are talking from their own experience. Massachusetts can be as culturally different from Mississippi, Montana or Missouri as France is from Germany, Italy and England. And so I see Europeans comfortable in a variety of nations just because there is a commonality if only in transportation where as we have that similar comfort level traveling to states across this nation that is easily as large a land mass and Europe.
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CallieOK.
Now I have travelled by myself mostly alone for over 40 years. Prefer being single and like being alone a lot. I don't think we are introverts.Just that we like our own company. I love meeting new people. Ones you enjoy but will never see them again once the meeting over. Met some great one all over US. Europe . Never gone in for being a joiner. Had 5 of the best friends who 4 died before age 50. Get along with people fine when both working and now retired.
I suppose there a people who think I am a little strange also. But then I think that these that always have to have people around them are strange also. We are not going to change. We like it.
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Thank you for your kind comment, MARJ. But if you find me thoughtful, it's because
of the quiet times spent thinking. Naturally, now that I am deaf and communication
has become much more difficult, I tend to withdraw from crowds more and more. I'm quite comfortable with that, and trust my loved ones to understand.
BARB, I imagine those working with the public always have to 'watch their P's and Q's. All three of my offspring have jobs that require dealing with the public, and some of the stories they tell are hilarious...after the fact. It is stressful.
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I thought some of you who read the Audubon bio might like to read this assessment of him and see some of his paintings again - from a history blogger, Historiann.
http://b-womeninamericanhistory19.blogspot.com/search/label/A%20Audubon?m=1
Jean
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I was browsing around, looking for interesting books and came up with this one, in last September: The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo I am putting in on my wish list.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Count-Revolution-Betrayal-Cristo/dp/030738246X/ref=sr_1_101?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357838294&sr=1-101&keywords=in+man+and+beast
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The History Channel's programming for the evening is Ultimate Guide to the Presidents from 7-11. It looks like they are going to be good shows.
Jean
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I'm now reading Quiet by Susan Cain, the other book on "introversion". It's much better then Introvert Power. She writes about a lot of studies, but it's very interestingly written. There is something more endearing about it then Introvert Power. It's more personal even though she is talking about a lot of new studies and info.
Every parent, teacher, family member, co-worker - IOW, everybody - should read this. We'd understand each other much more precisely and stop thinking others aredoing "something TO me" instead of understanding that they are working w/ in their comfort zone.
Jean
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I am just about to wrap up "A Train in Winter" by Caroline Moorehead. As the cover states:
An Extraordinary story of women, friendship, and Resistance in Occupied France. As one might expect, not a book with much happiness, but a power to move the reader. For some of us, a deep look into this subject and in areas we had not been privy to, especially as concerns the French Resistance.
It is a heavy subject indeed. Written exceeding well.
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A Train in Winter sounds interesting, Tomreader. I've added it to my TBR list. Thanks,
Marj
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I am usually not a fan of non-fiction, but I now find myself reading 2 nf books for my book clubs. So far, I am finding both very interesting. They are: "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks", and The Hare With the Golden Eyes. I will let you know when I finish. I watched The Ultimate Guide to the Presidents. It was very good & informative. I also dvr'd The Men Who Formed America. I've watched all but one episode and it has been excellent. I wish the History Channel would do more shows of this quality. Unfortunately, (imo) a lot of what they show is boring and unrelatable to me.
Sally
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Sally, glad you're enjoying "Henrietta Lacks". If you go to booktv.org, you might be able to still find one of the interviews they did with the author of the book. The story of how she came to write the book, and what happened while she was researching and writing is interesting, too.
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Kim Komando often has interesting sites to pass along in her newsletters. This is the latest:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ If you are interested in early Christian religion/history.
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Do not know who is Kim Komando but this is a great site - thanks for passing it on to us Frybabe.
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Kim Komando has a weekly radio program and website for "all things digital". She offers all kinds of info and advice, and checks out every website and application she recommends. http://www.komando.com/
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Where is she located - or rather where does the show originate - do you listen to her - need to look at the link but I had not heard of her and the show sounds interesting.
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FRY: thanks, I got a number of good tips from that article. For example, I didn't know Ctrl-Z was undo for everything, not just my solitaire game.
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Barb, at the bottom of her home page there is a link to her bio - click on About Kim. The WestStar Radio Network was founded by her and talk-radio host Barry Young, and it is headquartered in Phoenix, AZ. Her radio show is three hours long and, here, it is run on Sunday evenings.
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aha great thanks - her site is quite interesting - for some of the tips my computer is too old - I have a much newer lap top but for some reason I hardly use it.
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I've been getting Komomdo's newsletters for a couple years, very informative. I just can't remember all of the info, but she has a good search engine on her site to answer almost any question, even those we don'r knw we want an answer for.
Jean
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finally finished Catherine the Great, on my Nook with enlarged type, thank goodness.
robert Massie is a great historian, taking the reader through some of the most complex times in European history. He finds a lt to admire in Catherine, but whe was essentially an autocrat, devoted to the idea of absolute monarchy. And her succession of "favorites" is almost ludicrous.
Massie makes use of a lot ofprimary sources, he must have spent years and ears on this book.
I didn't like it as much as "nicholas and
alexandra" but am glad I had the chance to read it.
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(http://brittarnhildshouseinthewoods.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bf74c53ef017d410407c7970c-350wi)
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What lovely roses, BARB. Thanks for sending us all this valentine.
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One way of me getting roses without having a Allergy attach.
I can't be around most flowers of any kind. (have to be silk).
I broke off with a male friend I had had for a long time. He had a arraignment with a florist that a doz. roses delivered to my house every Friday night for a whole year after that. (spitefull). Never let him know that Another friend had his mother in a Nursing home and so she received them and enjoyed.
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Well, my next reading choice (one of them) is made. I grabbed a book quick to have something to read while waiting for George at the diner yesterday. It is Two Under the Indian Sun by Jon and Rumer Godden, and is a memoir of their childhood in India.
I am still reading, slowly, through Prudhomme's The Ripple Effect. I am to Part III and not even half way through. Surprising how slowly I am reading it since the subject matter interests me and he is not a hard author to follow.
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I, too, am surprised at how slowly I'm reading Follett's "Pillars of the World". Partly, I think because it's
not a book from the library that I must return. Partly it's the necessity to keep up with the discussion on
the other book I'm reading. But also, I think, simply because I enjoy going back to that time and am not
in a hurry to finish the book. Savoring slowly can be very nice.
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I decided Follett's "Pillars of the world" to long a book and so picked up the DVD set at the library. Even those will take hours.
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I'm reading a book about the race to be the first to cross the Atlantic non-stop by plane("Atlantic Fever"). it's very interesting - the characters and incidents carry me along. But it is 400 pages of small print: not sure I'll finish it.
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Since I now find it best to read even regular print with my glasses, I don't even consider trying the small
print. I wonder why the small print is even used. To give the book fewer pages? To make a book you can
stick in your pocket? Well, I guess I can see the usefulness of that last.
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My inability to hold a large book was the reason I got my first e-reader. Being able to change the size of the print and the page/print contrast were just bonuses. I really prefer the e-reader to a traditional book now.
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I absolutely hate using the Kindle - I get a cramp in my hand - all this tapping drives me nuts - I can not see the thickness of the book or edges of the page so I have no idea where I am in the book - trying to retrieve the cover or publishers page is almost impossible -
The only reason I use it is there are so many books I can download free or for 2.99 or less and even buying a used book for a penny when adding the shipping since used books are not included in Prime the total is $4. Some books are fun or with household tips or gift making information that spending even $4 seems like too much - so those are the books on my kindle plus the one I can borrow and even that usually does not include some of the Prime books I would like to read - for some reason not all Prime books are available to borrow - and so I am not a fan of this hand held device -
I still prefer a hardback and will get a used copy over a new paperback in a New York minute. I like to sit in the corner of my sofa and make a lap that the books sits in with my feet together up on the cushion I place on the mega size coffee table. I have a good lamp the end table has a drawer with pencils and paper place marks even cream for my hands and on top is a large ashtray that I use as a coffee tray - all set for hours with a pile of books next to me on the sofa including a rather large dictionary.
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It's nice that we're all so different. I love my kindle. Just passed 400 books in archives after a little over two years. But I feel guilty: I'm contributing to the monopoly of bookselling and close of bookstores.
I hope they don't close the B&N near me. it's always crowded, but that doesn't seem to matter.
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I just finished The Amazing Life of Henrietta Lacks and will go to my ftf book club today to discuss it. I thought it was interesting and informative; but it went on tooooo long imo. I got tired of reading it and just skimmed the last 100 pages. The book could have used a lot of editing.
Sally
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As much as I liked that book, Sally, I would agree that it needed more editing.
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A book I plan on reading. During my high school years I read quite a few books about WWII including a favorite, Is Paris Burning. A Train in Winter is about 230 women resistance members sent to Auschwitz. Thanks to Marilyn over on Seniors and Friends for mentioning it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/8734878/A-Train-in-Winter-A-Story-of-Resistance-Friendship-and-Survival-by-Caroline-Moorehead-review.html
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There's a quite moving plaque in the Gard du Nord station in Paris alongside the train tracks to those who were shipped from there to the concentration camps.
It really does stop you cold, I thought it was so sad.
I'm reading Rome by Robert Hughes. I like it, it's different, sort of a paean to Rome but filled with anecdotes of history and art. Doesn't sound good but it is, and I don't usually like this kind of book.
He's Australian, he died this past August, and is the author of The Fatal Shore, about the beginning of Australia, about which I know nothing. When The Fatal Shore came out there were rave reviews. For some reason I have never read it. Has anybody read any of his books?
Right now I'm in his "Foundation" chapter in Rome where he gives some early Roman history as background, sort of a Rick Steves capsule. He was apparently the foremost art critic of our day, so I'm looking forward to seeing what he does with the Baroque and Renaissance. Rome is such a treasure box, and even in these early chapters, he's captured that.
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Oh Darn, Ginny! I almost ordered A Fatal Shore this morning when I ordered The Silent Cry, The Road to Delphi: Scenes from the History of Oracles (Michael Wood), and the third from Jack Campbell's Lost Fleet series. My Library has A Fatal Shore, so it is on my wish list for the future. My next nonfiction read will be A Train in Winter which I just ordered from the Library.
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MaryPage, I found this article about Elizabeth of Bohemia I expect will interest you. I know I found it interesting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21532311
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Wonderful article Frybabe. I'd love to see a "most powerful women" list of American women. Maybe we can ecourage CSPAN or the HISTORY Channel to do that for next year's Women's History Month. ( i think her head must have hurt on her wedding day, that crown and allthose strings of jewels among her braids. )
I had not heard of her before.
Would you repost in "Women's Issues?" i think they would all enjoy reading about her.
Jean
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I read Robert Hughes' The Fatal Shore several years ago. Very interesting book about the founding of Australia.
Thanks, Ginny, for recommendig his book on Rome. I'll look for it.
Marj
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I've heard of Elizabeth of Bhoemia, but usually in a genealogy sense or on the periphery somewhere.
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An amazing woman!
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A colorful story, FRYBABE. I am puzzled, though, as to why this Elizabeth was
called 'powerful'. Very wealthy, plainly. But she and her husband ruled for only
six months and, so far as I could tell from the article, had no other positions of
power.
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Babi, I think it is because she spent years and years pulling strings behind the scenes for Protestant causes and in support of Protestant exiles and refugees. She was apparently influential in Protestant and political circles, contrary to previous biographies which painted her as rather passive.
After being exiled and losing her husband, she also spent many years in trying, ultimately successfully, to get her son, Charles Louis, reinstated as Elector Palatine. Conflicting information says that either her son refused to allow her to come back to the Palatine to be with him, or she voluntarily stayed in exile.
Elizabeth's daughter married the future Elector of Hanover. Their son became George I of England the first of the Hanoverian line to the throne of England.
Her correspondence of over 2,000 letters was recently published in three Volumes and was edited by Nadine Akkerman, who received a PhD, cum laud for her dissertation work.
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First Ladies series starting now on CSPAN2. On Monday nights for several months!! Great series!
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
FRYBABE, you are a marvel. You've provided so much more good info. on Elizabeth
of Bohemia. Surprising how often we find the era of masculine dominance has
actually been strongly influenced by a woman behind the scenes.
I don't think we get CSPAN. I'd have to check on that. Glad to see that you find
it a great series, JEAN. This sort of thing can be very good or really bad, imho.
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The Martha Washington program was excellent. If you didn't see it or want to see additional info and videos- especially about Mount Vernon - go to CSPAN.org. They will probably reshow it this week, especially on the weekend. I was somewhat upset that they switched the program to CSPAN2, because i think many who have only basic cable get only CSPAN1.
Last night Charlie Rose had Gloria Steinam and the producer of The Makers: Women who Make America on his show. You probably can see it on PBS.org, or Charlie Rose.org. It was an interesting conversation.
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I'm reading a really fascinating book, THE OUTPOST by Jake Tapper. It was recommended by Rachel Maddow of MSNBC and by an Amazon reader of General McChrystal's memoir (My Share of the Task by General Stanley McChrystal).
It shows dramatically the consequences of poor strategy and decision making by the higher command, including McChrystal. A group of soldiers is sent to a very remote part of Afghanistan to set up an outpost; no one could figure out exactly why. I am finding the story hard to put down as it tells of these men and what they went through. You get to know them, their family background, their thoughts. I was amazed to read how intelligent and well educated these men were.
The book gives such interesting information about the Afghanistan people they meet there. One large group surprisingly has red hair and blue eyes, and is thought to have been originally from people left there after Alexander the Great's battles there. When told by the soldiers that they were there on behalf of the Afghanistan Government, they replied, "Oh? Who are they?"
Marj
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Did you know there is a BookTV online book club? I just saw it mentioned at booktv.org.
They meet the last Tuesday of each month to discuss that month's book. This month's (March) book is THE NEW JIM CROW; MASS INCARCERATION IN THE AGE OF COLORBLINDNESS by Michelle Alexander and will be discussed at Facebook and Twitter March 26 at 9 pm eastern time.
Facebook.com/booktv
Twitter: #BTVBookClub
Trouble is, I don't know how to use either Facebook or Twitter.
Marj
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If you didn't get to see the CSPAN program on Martha Washington last Monday, CSPAN 1 is starting it again right now 7:00EST. If you have only one CSPAN channel it's probably that one.
Jean
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Thanks, Jean. I recorded something last Monday, but it wasn't Martha! I watched the introduction program this afternoon. So I hopped right over and started recording it now (John's watching basketball).
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Mary - last Monday it was on their schedule for CSPAN1, but they broadcast it on CSPAN3. I mentioned it as soon as i saw that at 9:00, but most people would not have been on line. Hope you get it this time it was good. But they can't switch things around lke that and expect their viewers to catch up. Some folks only have CSPAN 1 on their cable.
Jean
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I ran across this book on ManyBooks this morning. Although I am not planning on reading it, at least not for a while, I thought some of you might be interested.
http://manybooks.net/titles/kannermaother09SHATTERED_CRYSTALS.html
The author's website explains how the book came about. http://www.shatteredcrystals.net/
ManyBooks is formated for different ereaders. It looks like the only choice you have on the author's website is PDF. She has some excerpts of the book online and a link to the print version on Amazon.
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Shattered Chrystals sounds like a very interesting book, Frybabe. It gets 5 stars from Amazon reviewers. Unfortunately none of my libraries have it, and the price at Amazon ($40 to $95) is a bit much for me.
I plan to watch the beginning of the History Channel's series on the Vikings. It will be aired tonight (Sunday, Oct. 3) at 10 pm. I heard the program's creator (Michael Hirst who also created The Tudors TV series) interviewed on PBS, and it sounds as if it will be a really interesting historical drama. (I'm sure it will be repeated for all you early-to-bed people.)
Marj
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jean, we get CSpan 1, 2, and 3. I thought it originally had been moved to #2, and that's what I recorded. I'll check about the starting time tomorrow. ::) And will probably record The Vikings, too.
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Wow, Marjifay. I hadn't looked at what they wanted for the print version. If I decide to read it, I'll be downloading the free ebook version.
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I posted this in "fiction" but then thought some of you may be interested, especially in the non-fiction links to the free ebooks mentioned at the end.
A friend just loaned me a Jennifer Chiaverini book, not a "quilt" book, titled Mary Lincoln's Dressmaker." Elizabeth Keckley was a real person, but, of course, this is fiction. EK bought her and her son's freedom from slavery and had become a dressmaker to many prominent women in Washington D. C. in 1860. Both of those actions tell us what an amazing woman she was. She was the designer and maker of dresses for Varina Davis, Jefferson Davis' wife before Mary Lincoln came to town. (I find it ironic that that the president of the seceding states was probably named for Thomas Jefferson.)
About 100 pages into the book, i find it is typical JC well-written prose. She uses many of the current events of the time in the story. EK's son was the son of a white man and is light enough in complexion to be able to pass as white and is therefore able to join the Union army. JC gives us a good accounting of the anxiety of any mother whose child is in combat.
At this point i would highly recommend it. Here is a Wikipedia article about EK and the Amazon page about the book.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Keckley
In following a link from the wiki article i see that EK's autobiography "Behind the Scenes", is available as an ebook for free from Goggle Books and from Amazon. Just scroll down the article to "references". Also, the second book on the "reference" list is available as an ebook for free, "Mrs Lincoln and Mrs Keckly".
http://www.amazon.com/Mrs-Lincolns-Dressmaker-Jennifer-Chiaverini/dp/0525953612
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On BookTv, this coming Sunday, March 17, at 9 am eastern time, Jack Tapper will be talking about his book THE OUTPOST, a very interesting book I'm now reading. I posted about it here in Nonfiction, Feb. 28. Re a group of soldiers sent to a very remote part of Afghanistan to set up an outpost; no one could figure out just why. It tells of what they went thru, and the Afghanistan people they met there. It also shows dramatically the consequences of poor strategy and decision making by the higher command, including General Stanley McChrystal (whose memoir I plan to read next).
Marj
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There are a lot of good books on the booktv schedule this weekend. Thanks for the heads up Marjifay.
Jean
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I am enjoying "My Beloved World" by Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor. After a brief introductory chapter by the Justice, Rita Moreno takes over and she is terrific. Sotomayor, is humorous, but very, thoughtful as she talks about her judicial philosophy. She is also has some very funny scenes from her childhood in the Sooth Bronx with countless relatives. I am about halfway through it, when she was an assistant D.A. in Manhattan. She relates that the first time she ever saw a couch that was not covered in plastic was at her admissions interview at Harvard. She actually ended up at Princeton. near the end of her senior year, a friend fished a crumpled letter out of Sonia's wastebasket. Sonia said "Oh, that's some organization that wants me to pay to join and they give you some little trinket with your name on it. I'm not interested." The friend pointed out that it was an invitation to join Phi Beta Kappa.
I am new to audio books, but with my vision deteriorating, I think I better try some. Massachusetts makes free recorded books available to the visually impaired from the Perkins school in Boston, where Annie Sullivan received her training. I can also have newspapers and magazines read to me online or over the phone. I really have to take time to go through all the catalogs they send, but I just ordered "Bring UP the Bodies " by Hilary Mantel. Looking forward to that one after Wolf Hall.
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Here's another book about women - The Girls of Atomic City. I heard about this yesterday on the PBS News Hour. I hope something about it will be on BookTV before long (not currently scheduled).
Anyway, it's about the women who worked in Oak Ridge, TN, on the Manhattan Project - the super-secret development of the atomic bomb during WW2. If you're not from this area, you might not know about Oak Ridge, but it was an amazing situation. I've bought this book for my iPad, and am really looking forward to reading it.
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I'm reading bit by bit Jane Fonda's Primetime, about the "third act" of our lives that we are all in. It's interesting, very ego-centric of Jane, her picture is on every third or fourth page, but i find her comments thought provoking. Taking it in small does.
The discussion in Story of Civilization reminded me of Charles Mann's books "1491" and "1493". My memory says that we didn't have a discussion on either one of those, am i right??
The 1493 book might be a good one for discussion.
http://www.amazon.com/1493-Uncovering-Columbus-Created-ebook/dp/B004G606EY
I loved teaching about "the Columbian exchange". Students were always surprised at what products started where in the world and what a great impact the exchange of goods had on the entire world.
http://www.amazon.com/Columbian-Exchange-Alfred-Crosby-Jr/dp/0275980928/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312840262&sr=1-1
If you don't want to read either book, here is the wiki summary of the Exchange :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_Exchange
Jean
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I've read both of those books, jean. Really liked them.
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I thought of you when i wrote that, bcs i remembered that you and John had read them. I haven't read "The Columbian Exchange" and i may get that. It's a fascinating subject to me.
Jean
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I'm reading Fireweed:a Political Autobiography by Gerda Lerner. Lerner is considered to be the "mother of women's studies" in academia in the last half of the 20th century. She's a terrific writer. She was born in Austria, her Father was a phamacist w/ businesses in both Austria and Litchtenstein in the thirties. He was able to escape the Nazis invasion of Austria by being in L at the time and the rest of the family were to join him in L. However, Gerda and her Mother were imprisoned for a short period of time. The mother then went to France and eventually Gerda was able to come to U.S. to her betrothed and his family.
The book only covers the first half of her life, which was a disappointment to me, i would like to read her version of her difficulties in getting into the academic world. Her description of her family's experiences during the holoucaust is very informative and not overly depressing and dark. I don't understand how one human being could treat another the way the Nazis did, so i don't generally read about them. But Lerner has done a good job of literary writing, not just an historical summary.
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Noboy's reading non-fiction!?!
Fireweed is just getting better and better. I'm at a point where Gerda has married Carl Lerner and they are living in Calif where Carl is writing movie scripts in the 40's. Gerda is learning English (interesting comments from her about that process, both speaking anf writing, she speaks German, French and Yiddish and had studied Latin and comments how all of that helped her write English - or not ). They are in contact with folks who are later a part of the "Hollywood 10" and she speaks to the reason for her affinity to socialism at the time - the Soviet Union were our allies, and her anti-fascism. It is all an interesting perspective and her writing is superb.
I picked up Uncommon Ground by Mark Pendergrast about the role of coffee in history. His books are usually interesting and fun to read. Haven't started it yet. Has anyone read it?
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I'm reading a book of interest only to people who live in Chattanooga - Old Money, New South. It's about the powers-that-be throughout the history of Chattanooga and what they've accomplished. Very interesting.
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I'm reading A History of London by Stephen Inwood which is a very thick book and a slow go since I am also reading Rutherford's Paris and some incidentals (mysteries) along with it. Am also preparing for a genealogy research trip for the first week of June so I am prepared to have this be my nonfiction read for the summer.
Mary
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I am reading Hemmingway's A Moveable Feast with foreword by his son & grandson. I am not a fan of non-fiction, but this was my ftf book club choice for May. I am really enjoying getting an insight into some of the famous literary characters that lived in Paris at the same time Hemmingway did.
Sally
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I'm reading The Preacher and the Presidents: Billy Graham in the White House. Co-authored by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy. Fascinating, the influence he had on presidents, starting with Harry Truman. Summed up by this line on page 160: 'Political careers became higher callings, once Graham was there to bless them.' Strange, however, how Graham barely survived the Watergate scandal. It left him scarred. Obviously he had never been so close to evil.
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I am continuing my read of Jon and Rumer Godden's Two Under the Indian Sun. It is an interesting memoir on growing up in Bengal during WWI.
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Wasn't Nancy Gibbs one of the authors of The book about the ex-president's club? Was Duffy her co-author on that? I liked that a lot.
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Hello JEAN AND JONATHAN! It's been awhile since I have posted, but I read!
JONATHAN, I never approved of Billy Graham's advising the presidents, elevating their reputations as you quoted. Although he was well known throughout the country, not everyone believed his doctrine. As our forefathers stated in the Constitution, religion and the state should be separate and those presidents who encouraged Graham to visit the White House often were wrong to do so.
It would not go over today would it? Think of Catholics and Muslims, no, no, no. not today.
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Perhaps it is time to discuss another nonfiction book? I have four reserved for me at the Library when I get there and I can't recall right now what they are, but will get them and see if any would be good topics. Unless a book is bold print or large book, it is hard tor me to read it with my ever increasing poor eyesight.
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I've started a book "The History of Ain't"; the story of making the third edition of Websters Dictionary. It's about the struggle between those who feel a dictionary should be the preserver of proper English to those who feel the language belongs to all of us, and the dictionary should reflect that. Interesting.
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Never been to this site before.
Although I read a LOT of fiction, I always have a non-fiction book on the slow burner.
Three of the really good ones I have read in the past months are:
In The Garden of the Beast-Erik Larsen (Berlin in the 1930's)
God's Hotel-Victoria Sweet (The Story of a Hospital run in the "old manner" and the change over to the "modern method'
through the eyes of a Doctor and her patients)
My Stroke of Insight-Jill Bolte Taylor (A Brain Scientist's Personal Journey of experiencing her own Stroke).
The first two have been on the bestseller list. The third book is relatively short-187 pages.
I will try some of your recommendations in the future.
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Welcome, JUDE. Your recommendations are always great.
I'm like you: I read mostly fiction, but always get one non-fiction book when I go to the library.
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Hi Ella, welcome back!
Welcome to you Jude
ThePresident's Club was very good, about the present and ex-presidents back to Harry Truman and how they really are a club and interact with each other. I think it would make for a good discussion since we've all lived thru those years.
Fireweed:a Political Autobiography by Gerda Lerner is also very interesting and would make for a good discussion. Although she lived through the 20th century, there is much in it that relates to some of today's issues.
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GOOD IDEAS>
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Hi, Everybody
How nice to see you posting again, Ella, after your eye surgery. May you enjoy lots and lots of reading in your leisure time. And, along with Harold, lead more book discussions.
How about the latest Lynne Olson. Those Angry Days
http://www.lynneolson.com/
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That sounds interesting.
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Saw this in my women's history newsletter this morning. The book sounds interesting, altho something that we may want to read in spurts, it could be intense......a plane shot down in Albania in WWII included 13 nurses. Apparently there is a lot of suspense, several attempts at escape before everybody, men and women get out. It's a piece of military history that does not exclude the story of the women involved.
http://www.chickhistory.com/2013/05/book-review-secret-rescue-untold-story.html
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JONATHAN, one of the books I picked up is THOSE ANGRY DAYS and it does look very good, about the right size for a discussion. I'll see what Harold has to say about it.
Another book that I can hardly put down is GERMAN BOY: a Refugee's Story by Wolfgang W. E. Samuel. Stephen E. Ambrose wrote an Introduction to the book and read it day and night until he finished it. What a story!
http://www.amazon.com/German-Boy-Refugees-Willie-Biography/dp/1578062748/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369336295&sr=1-1&keywords=German+Boy%3B+A+Refugee%27s+Story
I'm amused by a quote from Winston Churchill (in the Olson book):
"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing --after they've tried everything else."
A statement we could discuss for hours, right?
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Jonathon Ella and all. I 1have had "Those Angry Days"on the Nook since February and considered it a prime non fiction discussion candidate. Hopefullyk a midsummer discussion can be arranged.u
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Mabel: the story of the nurses sounds fascinating!
But when I clicked on your link, I noticed that the tab that appeared on the tabline was labeled "chickhistory"! AAAACK.
I doubt they have another tab labeled "roosterhistory"!
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Just starting to read "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks". Can't believe that it was in the 1950s and still things are being done. I always thought that Johns Hopkins was one of the finest Hospitals in the World. Maybe it was for the research that was being done but yet it was so segregated . Treated the coloured people that way.. I had my girls in the 50s and such good care was given when one gave birth.
I suppose we still are not aware of what medical science is doing even now. Suppose it is helping in many things Would not do to let the public know how it was doing them.
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Unfortunately, I remember that Johns Hopkins always had the reputation of treating people of color terribly, even without knowing about Henrietta Lacks. When my daughter was applying to medical school, I advised her strongly not to apply there! I hope that that has changed!
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David Sedaris's new book "Exploring Diabetes with Owls" is a hoot and a half. (pun intended)
Either you are a fan of Sedaris or you're not. I am.
He is considered the greatest American Humorist of our time and has been translated into many languages.
The other great humorist, Nora Ephron, has died recently but her books are also very funny and poignant.
Give both of them a try if you need a pick me up.
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"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing --after they've tried everything else." (Winston Churchill quoted in Those Angry Days)
You're right, Ella, there could be a lot of opinions about that. One of mine woudl be that Churchill could have said that about himself. He loved action. A part of leadership, I suppose. Or was it the American in him? A part of him was coming home, he felt, with every visit to the U.S. After all, his mother was American.
I'm delighted that you and Harold both see the potential in the book for a good read and discussion. I'm sure there would be others. Why not give it a try.
There certainly are a lot of rave reviews about German Boy. I must read it.
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LOL. Chicks and Roosters! Yeah! Come on girls, stop cackling and start crowing. You've got the stuff.
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Regarding "Those Angry Days", I first heard about this book this past January and read it after ordering it on my Nook Reader. I judged it a prime candidate for a Seniorlearn nonfiction discussion. Thank you Jonathon for your comments here. Hopefully a formal discussiion of this title can be had this summer.
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ThePresident's Club was very good, about the present and ex-presidents back to Harry Truman and how they really are a club and interact with each other. I think it would make for a good discussion since we've all lived thru those years.
You're quite right, Jean. We discussed it last year, ably led by Ella and Harold, and it was terrific. :)
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Oops. I forgot.
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The "Presidents Club" discussion last year made a particularly good discussion platform because it proviede a particularlly good review of each Presidential administration from Truman through Obama. Since many of the participants had lived through most or all of these administrations we all had our own remumberance of each administration and were eager to discuss our indivigual opinions on each.
Rgarding our coming "Those Angry Years" discussion too some of us will remember our individual experience including myself who recalls sitting in the Senate visitors gallery in August 1940 listening to the Senators debat the draft bill.
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Harold, I'm looking forward to hearing your memories of that senate debate. Was it stormy? What a conflicted world it was in the thirties, with so many around the world with divided loyalties and aspirations and fears. My memories are both vague and vivid. I remember the German Kulturabend in the late thirties and the singing of Deutschland Uber Alles. In the public school we often sang the rousing Rule Britania, Britannia rules the Waves. It must have been '37 or '38, while helping a neighbor with her berrypicking that she returned from the house with a cool drink and the news that Hitler was broadcasting one of his speeches to the world. Then, in June '39, the king and queen came to Canada and drove slowly past us school kids waving our flags. Then it was off to Washington where they were put up at the White House. A year and a half later Churchill dropped in, was offered the Lincoln bedroom, refused it, and chose the bedroom the royal couple had occupied. Lots of high level talks over the entire holiday season. Christmas, 1941. It seems to me it all left Eleanor R with a grudge against Churcill for spoiling Christmas for the family. Besides taking the president's mind off New Deal measures.
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Yes, I too remember how around the table there was a lot of emotion talking about Germany - we still spoke in German in our home - My great grandparents were from Germany and around 1937 or 38 my grandmother received a letter from Hitler - probably not Hitler doing the writing and sending but signed by him which invited her to return to Germany and be given back the Estate that was lost in earlier Pre-WWI times - the family was referring to it as a castle but that was the German word they used and I was trying as a little kid to understand. I remember clearly the evening we STOPPED speaking German.
It was the summer of 1939 when my Grandmother who was a widow stopped in as she always did late Friday afternoon after spending the day at the German Club where she played bunco and after a nice lunch there was a dance with a live orchestra. She was very upset. She and my mother with voices raised talking about something to do with Nazi's - I knew a Nazi from the hole in the wall - I was six - but what ever it was it was something they did that the people at the German Club also did and Grandma did not like it and was debating ever going back and yet, it was her only social outlet and what to do ganashing with more and more coffee and more and more aufgebracht over whatever they did that day - In walks my father unusually early and hears the story calms the scene and decides right then that rather than waiting for Saturday night which was our usual routine we were going the Beer Garden - it was the end of summer because the grass along the way was high and dry - the Beer Garden was a good mile or so away and the chatter was easy till we got within 100 yards or so of the Beer Garden and all over the side wall of the Restaurant in front of the Garden was painted in black and with whitewash swastikas and sayings and the large glass window in front was smashed.
We stopped in our tracks and stared, then silently my father picked up my younger sister and put her on his shoulders and we turned around and silently walked back. Half way back my Mother says to my Grandmother "No more German Mom, No more" that was all that was said as we silently walked home after we saw Grandma to her home - from then on Grandma would slip into German if she was excited or upset and Mom would break in and remind her to not speak German.
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I must research some more about those attitudes in '39. That anger in the U.S. at the Nazis surprises me. I'd like to know more about that. I wonder what most American's knew about the Nazis at the time. Can any of you talk to that?
I can see how unthinking people who thought of the Nazis as "bad people" would stereotype all German-Americans. I wonder what American Nazi activity was going on. I've never read anything about that.
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I can only speak from my memory but there must have been more than is written about in popular chronicles today because my very best friend Nancy Kluge (OH I was so proud to have a best friend and photos of us show us both standing tall with our chest out so we were both proud of having this relationship) anyhow her uncle, unmarried, living with them, she was an only child anyhow, the FBI came one day and took him away because he had only arrived from Germany a few years earlier and they said he was or could be a spy - never made clear - and he never came back. As a kid I do not know what happened - My mother said he was put in jail but the Kluge's like most German families that I knew went silent, no longer being friendly to each other and we lived a very low profile. I am sure it was so they would not be pointed out as German or slip into speaking German to each other. However, that is my adult talking - I just know what happened not why. Back to the Uncle never heard from or about him again even after the war was over. My aunt said he was not a spy but she had no truck for any authority figure especially the police who she made jokes about - so who knows - it was over 70 years ago.
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That's really interesting Barbara. My birth name is Laidig, definitely German, but they were in Pennsylvania by at least the late 1700's, so maybe noone thought of them as German. I never heard any stories of problems. I'll have to ask my oldest sister, she's 86 and has more family memory than i do.
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Must have been a little strange in the USA during the first an second wars as so many families had both German and Italian backgrounds. I knew on my inlaws great grands with some grandparents coming from Germany years prior. Most of the immigrants came from both countries .
Now in UK I remember I had friends whose families had come in from both those countries . If not a born citizen they where sent back home . I could never understand why the
US interned the Japanese after war started . Some were even US citizens. Did not seem right.
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Here is an article about German Internment during both WWI and WWII - it appears the only reason the German population was not interred during WWII as the Japanese is because there were so many However there were Germans interred
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-American_internment
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It seems that not to many people are aware of that because I had not heard of it.
Much was said and written about the Japanese internment.
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Regarding Mabel’s post #2491 above concerning American’s attitude toward the US Neutrality policy at the beginning of WWII, I will offer the following comment. I know from memory that initially there was strong nationwide feeling favoring strict US neutrality. The depth of this general American policy and how events led the US into the war just 2 and 1/4 years later will be the subject of our August discussion book, “Those Angry Years.” Ella and I hope all of you nonfiction regulars will join the discussion August 1st. We will certainly probe deep into the US mind set regarding the War at that time.
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Harold, is the book you're mentioning "Those Angry Days" by Lynne Olson - described in my library catalog as " Those angry days: Roosevelt, Lindbergh, and America's fight over World War II, 1939-1941" ?
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Yes I think that's the book.
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My current book study in progress is “A Land So Strange“ by Andre Resendez. Cabeza de Vaca was an officer in the ill-fated Narvaez Expedition in 1527 Florida. Expecting to find a native culture like the Aztec Empire in Mexico rich in gold and silver the Spanish landing in the vicinity of today’s Tampa Bay found only malaria and warlike natives. After the death of Governor Narvaez, under Cabeza de Vaca with other principal officer they built 5 raft like boats. On these they departed Florida in September1528, drifting with the wind and current north along the Florida coast, then westward along the coast of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. In late November 1528 they drank fresh water from the sea as they passed the Mississippi discharge. Reaching the Texas coast their course veered southward to Galveston Island where a November winter storm beached the boats scattering some 40 surviving Spanish along a 30 miles stretch of beach.
Luckier than most of the Spanish castaways a naked Cabeza de Vaca on a 30 degree November day was befriended by a local Native American group beginning a six year residence as one of the first European residents of what is now Texas and the United States. During this period de Vaca’s status was switched from slavery to that of a near independent trader living with several different tribes on Galveston and the adjoining Texas mainland. The number of other Spanish survivors was quickly reduced to about dozen and a half attached to several different tribes. These were quickly further reduced to less than a dozen survivors living with different tribes who rarely saw one another.
It was September 1534 when de Vaca and three others were able to break free beginning a long trek that took them south crossing the Rio Grande, up the Rio Grande on the Mexican side, back across the river on the Texas side to near El Paso , to continue into New Mexico ,and back in Mexico. Finally in January 1536 in Northwest Mexico the four survivors encountered a Spanish military party out to capture Indian slaves for the Mexican mines. The long circuitous route was made necessary to avoid many warlike natives who most certainly would have ended the journey. It is the de Vaca account of the many interesting Indian cultures that give us the earliest account of native cultures as they were then in what is now Florida, Texas, New Mexico and northwest Mexico. Many of these Tribes were interesting trade orientated cultures each a part of a vast trade directed culture connecting lower Mississippi river tribes, to East Texas Tribes, to Rio Grand tribes (on both sides) to the New Mexico Pueblos and northwest Mexico.
I hope I will be able to set up a discussion of this book this winter. The book is available in digital form on the internet in the $10 to $15 range.
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Well, i gave up on Uncommon Grounds, a hstory of coffee. It started out to be interesting and well written, but he just kept repeating the same kinds of information as he moved through the various guys who developed the different coffee companies in the U.S. and it got drier and drier. I don't have time for that.
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Interestingly I remember years ago a discussion thread on this board on the history of Coffee. It might have been the "Uncommon Ground" title Mabel mentioned above. What was the publication date on this book? I am sure many of us have begun reading initially interesting books only to find they sort of fizzle before the end is reached.
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I started "A drink of Water" about the history of drinking water. An interesting idea, but same fault as "Uncommon ground." The author seemed to have misunderstood the common advice to "say what you're going to say about six times, say it in two sentance, then say what you said four times." gave it its 86 pages and quit.
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Yesterday I almost bought a biography about E.M. Forster. Since the cover intro seemed to indicate the book focused on his homosexuality and how it shaped his writing, I decided to pass - at least temporarily. I'm not sure how well rounded or if it captured the whole man, not just those aspects of it. Oh good heavens! The author is living just up the road from me in Carlisle, PA and teaches English at Dickinson College.
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Unrecorded-History-Life-Forster/dp/B007SRXGTK/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371554246&sr=1-1&keywords=e.m.+forster\\
http://users.dickinson.edu/~moffat/
On doing some checking, evidently his sexual orientation was a big part of his life but most earlier authors preferred to skirt around it.
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Wow! I didn't know Forster was at Dickinson! In fact i didn't know he was still alive. I spent some good times at Dickinson football games, both in my young years as a date and in the 90's when my son played football at Gettysburg abd Dickinson was a rival. Also when i was 14 i spent a week at Dickinson at a "Methodist camp".
I'm reading Lauren Bacall's autobiography "By Myself." it's quite good, very well written. If she wrote it herself she could have had a career as a writer. It's very detailed, including what are supposedly actual conversations. I am always impressed by people's memory of details, altho i'm also often skeptical of how accurate they are, unless, like first ladies, they've kept detailed diaries.
I'm also reading a new book "The King's Mistresses." a book about two sisters who were mistresses of Louis the 14th. The author apparently found sources that indicated how the sisters took more control of their lives then the way they've been portrayed in the past. It's an interesting look at how wives of the aristocracy were treated, having arranged marriages, having inheritences spent by those husbands, being isolated so the husbands had more control over them, often, and sometimes the best choice, being put in convents. Altho, i have been impressed that women did have, in France, some legal actions that they could take, apparently more then in other European countries and more then in the American colomies and states for centuries to come.
Jean
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It's not Forster (or his ghost) who's at Dickinson, it's Wendy Moffat, the author of the new life of Forster.
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Oh, thanks Pat, i read too quickly! ;D ;D
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I am taking a break from reading SciFi and am now reading a history of Australia, The Fatal Shore by Robert Hughes.
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Oh my gosh, Frybabe, your idea of a 'break' is my idea of a major undertaking!
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I'm almost finished with Lauren Bacall's By Myself. It has continued to be terrific. It appears that the book concludes with her adjusting to Bogie's death, there are not enough pages left for her to cover her marriage to Jason Robards. :) It is so well written. She does gush a bit too much for my taste about Bogie. Even though she frequently mentions his getting drunk and nasty, she doesn't say much about how it effects her except to say it confuses her not to know when it's coming or how to deal with it. I guess drinking, and getting drunk, by that crowd and in that day was just the way it was and perfectly acceptable.
Anyway, i recommend it.
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Thanks for that recommendation Jean.
Re drinking - daughter and I have just watched 'Julie & Julia' and it's amazing how much Julia, Paul and all their friends knocked back on a regular basis. My husband also remembers that his parents - who now only really drink if we are visiting - thought nothing of having a few drinks and then driving in those days, they are very law-abiding indeed, but the culture was just so different then. My parents came from a completely different world, where alcohol was only ever seen at Christmas, funerals and weddings.
by the way, I enjoyed 'Julie and Julia' much more than I expected to. Has anyone read any of the books about Julia Child? I think they may have been discussed here a while ago, but I hadn't seen the film then and didn't really know anything about Julia - am now interested in reading about her.
Rosemary
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Wasn't she divorced from Robards for years?
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I've read My Life in France, written with Alex Prud'homme, Paul Child's great-nephew. This was used as a major source of the Julia side of Julie and Julia. Prud'homme wrote it by sitting down with Julia and bunches of her old photos; she would start reminiscing: "oh, that picture was when we..." and off she'd go. Prud'homme wrote everything down, and arranged and cut and pasted to get a coherent story. It's very good, catches her flavor, and full of interesting stuff. I, too, enjoyed the movie more than I expected.
Other people here have read some of the other books.
Heavy drinking back then: the first time I went to France was in 1957, nine years after Julia got there. The French government was conducting a sobriety campaign (santé, sobriété) with many posters. One of their slogans was "never more than a liter of wine a day"!!!!
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Thanks Pat, I will have a look for 'My Life in France' - predictably, our library doesn't have it, so I'll see what Amazon can offer.
Rosemary
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I saw the DVD of Julie and Julia at my daughter's insistence and was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. My life in France sounds interesting.
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I just read about 10 pgs of Bacall's book last night which talked about her relationship w/ Frank Sinatra shortlyy after Bogie died. She was really looking for a "Bogie substitute" and Frank probably had a crush on her before Bogart died, but as she said "Frank was a sh--." it seems Ava Gardner was the only woman he ever really loved and she had dumped him, so he was petrified of intimacy. He would be in the relationship for a couple weeks and then he would disappear. At one point he asked her to marry him, but then was infuriated when Louella Parsons wrote about it in her column and he never called Bacall again, even though HE had started telling LB HIS plans for the wedding as though she was to just go along - and she DID! Obviously from her comments, as she is writing the book 20yrs later, she has become a more independent, self-confident woman.
He was another man who got ugly when he drank, and yet all these people just accepted it, never - apparently - commenting on it or suggesting he should do something about it. And they all just kept making drinking a huge part if their social lives. I'm so glad it has at least become unacceptable to be a public drunk these days.
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One still see lots of drunks around. The AA have more members than eve. Our paper will have at least 3a day in for for DUI. Now there are as many women as men they say who are ( I can't spell the word) alcoholics .
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Just was in our local paper today. So far this year we have had 478 cases of DUIs . We are just a pop.of 185 in 2twin cities. Plus a few in the outer counties.I wonder how many did not get caught.
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They are going to put our rule down to .7 instead of .8 thinking it will help. That is about 2 beer in a hour I believe. Bars complaining. Mostly on campus. Should do like in UK . Has to be one no drinker driving. One looses their license for a year over there. 3 years if caught again.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I'm not saying there are fewer drinkers. I'm saying that, i think, there is less accepting of public drunkeness. We all kind of sneer at celebrities being arrested for DUI, it's not "appropriate behavior" any more. There are far fewer comedians doing pretend drunkeness, except on SNL. It's just not considered funny any more. If someone at a party is obviously drunk and out of control, people make murmuring negative statements and, i think, cocktail parties have become passe for mature adults.......or am i not running in the right crowd?
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We are not of that generation any more .lot more home drinkers because of the rules being made. I did work at the sport stadium for the football games on the ticket doors. On big games when there are Tailgate parties it's awful. Got so bad I quit .
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Gave up on The Fatal Shore. There was no way I was going to get through the book, even with a renewal, right now. This is a book to buy and read slowly, not one for marathon reading with a time limit.
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There's something wistful about your post, Frybabe.
Hughes' Barcelona is another marathon. I've been enjoying it for years and still not through it. I love taking it off the shelf, opening it at random to enjoy a stunning illustration (even an illiterate could enjoy this book, imagining all kinds of things into the pictures), or reading a few pages and feeling rewardingly cultured for my effort.
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More riveting than a spy novel or expose - I started it too late last night to read it through but that is what I wanted and will stop everything to finish it this morning.
Wave by Sonali Deraniyagala
Family from London that goes back each year to spend Christmas with family in Sri Lanka - The Tsunami came while they were at a beach front hotel with her parents - lost is her husband, 2 boys and parents - she is the only one to survive - it is written like a stream of consciousness and her story telling builds as the wave till it settles down like the backwater where she was wrapped around a tree to exhausted to even answer those looking for survivors. She spends days and weeks and months wanting to stay suspended in the world of confusion that was her experience while being pushed and washed inland so that she will not have to face and acknowledge the death of her family. The book is not big - a miracle she could write her account of her experience and relay to us her years of healing that is not maudlin or sentimental in her telling. She and her husband are/were professional people - she shares her thoughts that can be funny and sarcastic - her story includes healing, meeting and marrying a Cambridge professor. Together they have a child.
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The two history channels are having interesting programming today and tomorrow and Booktv has an interesting schedule from tomorrow thru the weekend.
http://booktv.org/Schedule.aspx
Jean
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I note that Those Angry Days is listed for 5am on July 5. AM? I doubt the cats can have me up by then. Hopefully, it will be repeated.
I received my Roku box replacement this morning. After I got everything hooked up and reregistered the box, I noticed among the new channel listings another book review/author interview channel. I haven't looked at it yet. The other one is sponsored by Simon and Shuster.
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I've written a reminder to myself to set the DVD to record "Those Angry Day's at 4:00 a.m. Central Time on Friday morning! :D
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I'm reading a wonderful new book by Tim Parks called Italian Ways. It's a very evocative and true to life description of train travel in Italy. If you've ever taken the train in Italy or you wondered what it would be like it's great for armchair travelers. I'm only halfway through it --he's definitely got some prejudices and he's definitely got some anger, but it reminds me of Paul Theroux a little bit. I'm really enjoying it.
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Sounds interesting, Ginny. I'll watch for it. Why the anger? Are the trains not running on time. I thought Mussolini had that fixed.
As a matter of fact, I'm about to take off for Italy. Well, the book I'm about to read has its setting in Italy. John Cornwell's A Thief In The Night. You all remember that mystery? The strange death of Pope John Paul I, a month after being elected to that high office, in 1978. What was it, it asks on the cover. Heart attack? Murder? Divine Mystery?
Crime in high places? It boggles the mind to think it goes that high. Conceived in Heaven!
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I don't know why he's angry, I hope to find out. He (I'm only half way thru) seems a tad misanthropic at this point, and he does keep making characterizations of the South, that is, those Italians from the South of Italy. I mean they can't be all thicked necked and buzz cut. I personally love the south of Italy.
I am not sure punctuality is always a hallmark of Italian trains. :)
However I read that the last part of the book takes place IN the South of Italy and is very positive, so I don't know what to think. He's British, and has lived in Verona I believe, for 30 years so he's not a tourist like I am (tho I never have understood what's so bad about a "tourist)." That one point alone would make a great discussion, it's always irritated me. Not talking about the Ugly American types, just those who want to experience what they can. Are there grades of "tourists?"
You find everywhere those... I won't use the word snobs...., who keep on about how they want to live like the natives do and not just be a "tourist," but the way they accomplish that seems the epitome of being touristy to me. Maybe I don't know what a "tourist" is? I mean surely we don't have to renounce our citizenship to feel we haven't been somewhere or seen something?
A Thief in the Night sounds very interesting, is it a mystery? That is, how is it categorized?
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I don't read a "lot" of non-fiction, but once in awhile some title intrigues me. Spotted on the library shelf "Hello, Gorgeous" a biography of Barbra Streisand by Wm. Mann. It is a 500+ pager, and although I'm just getting into it, it seems to be a terrific portrait of Barbra with all her quirks. I wholeheartedly admire and appreciate her as a "singer and entertainer". Listen carefully (and not just once) to any of her recordings and hear the perfectionism she's so famous for; breathing, inflection.
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I had forgotten about BS book. Better check the library. Bet a long waiting.
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No other names on the list. Don't see it in LP. That is a lot pages. Can most probably skip over some of it.
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In large print, you would not be able to pick up and hold the book. It is 500+ pages, plus about 20 pages of notes at the end.
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That's one reason I am putting off Dan Brown, it's not comfortable reading in hardback, but I have it.
I finished reading Italian Ways by Tim Parks and really enjoyed it. Perhaps less political musings might have been useful. He's apparently quite important, I had never heard of him.
The last part of the book is on train travel thru Sicily, and its truly Italian ways. I enjoyed that armchair experience but after reading it I may have to go do Sicily another way, someday, if I actually go at all; it sounds like Lawrence of Arabia going across the desert. Really.
Trains which don't run, which aren't on the schedule, which take hours to go 100 miles.
Hair pin turns on busses, dangerous bus driving, (I would love to go on the train which crosses on the ferry boat tho. I think, tho the bit about no air conditioning for hours in the hold....apparently it sits on sidings too)... it sounds like a brave new world out there, I'm not sure, however, that I am up to it.
And Parks did it in 2012. But he does capture the Italian insouciance.
He is also obsessed with their spotting him as a non Italian! It really irritates him, how they immediately speak English when they hear his Italian. They do that to me, too, I've given up actually, but I don't care: he does..
He's been there 30 years, apparently is fluent in Italian which I am laughably not, and wants to be taken for Italian. He keeps saying "my country." I don't know why I have such problems with Ex Pats. Usually fleeing taxes tho there are lots of high minded excuses. He does make the point that he does pay Italian taxes which I thought were horrendous. I don't know why he makes that point: that he's not like the others? I thought Sophia Loren does not live in Italy (or does she?) because OF the taxes. Confusing.
He liked Sicily because they took him AS Italian or that is, they addressed him in Italian.
So as in all things, travel is individualized. I wonder why his "my country," is not Britain?
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When I lived in Israel, I learned to tell a block away what country a person came from. And anyone could tell a block away that I was an American, even after I'd lived there three years and spoke not-too-bad Hebrew. He's an egotist if he thinks he can get away with passing as Italian.
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When I lived in France (Strasbourg) in the late 60s, my one success was being mistaken for a native of the Midi. The accent of the Midi is really sneered at by everyone who is from somewhere "better", so what that was really saying was "I guess maybe she's French, but her accent is so horrible she must be from the Midi". I thought it was pretty funny.
It isn't just nationalities you can tell from a block away. One man I worked for claimed he could tell a chemist at a distance, and sometimes which subspecialty. I found that to be sort of true when going on college visits with a daughter. I would sit in on classes, and once while waiting for a chemistry prof to show up, I saw a group of professors in identical dark grey suits, and instantly picked out the chemist. How? I don't know, but I was right.
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Oh how interesting!
Yes he seems very egotistical, actually. Or sad. Perhaps he really wants to fit in and be taken for an Italian.
I was once taken for a German by a German official on the train from Rome to Munich. He, in fact, had the little Bavarian family sharing the compartment absolutely rigid and nervous, and the father, who till that point had been much in control, a little king of his little family in the compartment, actually sweating. The papers were presented to this official and he was not pleased. Quite a bit of German ensued, the official (the train was full of inspectors and officials when it crossed the border), was bristling and definitely displeased. His voice was raised, arms were waving and suddenly the father cried out AH!! Dis (pointing at me, everybody looked at me) is not mine SISTER!
Sister is not a German word, is it? But that's what he said, and the official turned to me sharply (he could have asked initially for my passport, but didn't), and I handed him my passport. Nervous laughter all around by the family.
Sister? I was old enough to be his mother. I know I had blonde hair and blue eyes and a German nose but that's ridiculous. (I was rather proud of it tho). I've had that reaction everywhere I've gone in Germany, every time, except for the time I was told I looked Danish.
This last summer on a trip to Germany I made the great mistake, which will never be repeated, of boarding train during rush hour and a a Bistro car to boot. Bad mistake. So I had to join 3 others at a table if I wanted to sit down. When I opened my mouth in English to ask for a coke I wish you could have seen the shock and dropped jaws on the three people and the waiter, apparently I DO look German. hahahaa
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Now I have always been very good at telling a persons nationality. Even if it goes back a few generations. Getting harder now, specially in the US because they are beginning to mix. Use to be ethnic areas were people married inside them. I can still do it when in Europe. Going to change there soon. They are saying that in 50 years there will be no more redheads or blondes .( natural) sure to still be the bottle stuff around.
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I'm reading WHY DOES THE WORLD EXIST? AN EXISTENTIAL DETECTIVE STORY. (275 PP, 2013) It's not the easiest book I've read lately. But I'm certainly finding it to be an interesting book. The author takes you on a journey which tackles the old question of "Why is there something instead of nothing." This is something I've always wondered about and the author gives us the answers of some of today's leading philosophers and scientists who all have their own fascinating take on the problem.
Marge
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I'm reading two very different, but both interesting books.
Kate Remembered - Scott Berg; a memoir of Kathryn Hepburn. It's great how you can just hear Kate talking as he recounts his conversations with her.
Ready for a Brand New Beat: How "Dancing in the Street" became the Anthem for a Changing America. - Mark Kurlanski. It's an interesting look at rock n roll, integretion, the youth of the 50s and 60s and how it all goes together.
Mark Kurlanski, as you may know, is a very esoteric writer. You may have read his Cod or Saltor 1968. I liked Salt, but gave up n Cod after about 50 pages and i used 1968 in my course on the 50s, 60s and 70s. I believe its sub-title is "the year that changed the world."
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I can believe that Scott Berg's book on Kathryn Hepburn is enjoyable to read. He does have a great style of writing about his subject. I'm reading his biography of Charles Lindbergh. Marvellous subject. Very touching to read how serious Lindberg was in trying to keep his country out of war.
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Nazi sympathizer lindberg
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It's true. Lindbergh did take a lesson from the Nazis. How to make his country strong. How to prepare it for battle.
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Are you thinking of the medal that Lindbergh accepted from Goering? Shucks, Lindbergh got medals from everybody. Including a Canadian medal with the King's face stamped on one side, and the Prince of Wales on the other. Did that make Lndbergh a royalist?
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Rich and poor. The High and Mighty. Joe six-pack. Awe-struck teenagers. Everybody wanted to be seen with Lindbergh. And his sympathys went out to everybody.
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That was a peek into my mother's youthful fantasy crush - in her photo album she had a photo of Lindbergh next to his plane the Spirit of St. Louis. Good looking - a bit fay compared to my father but he must have had a strong character to attempt crossing the ocean in that plane.
In the thirties most folks were against the war - but it was little talked about except in the German communities as we were beginning to hear stories that were not fun from about '37 on - but we still never dreamed we would be in the war.
It is amazing how we are not satisfied looking at a whole man but rather caricature someone - even Hitler who now we only see him as a monster that he was but he also did many good things like designing one of the most successful cars that we had movies featuring and for years was the first car for most college age kids. He designed the Volkswagen Beetle as the "people's car" in the early thirties when most of the west was still deep in the depression. The depression may have been officially over by about '35 or '36 but most lower income families were still struggling on the cusp of poverty and wondering hobos were still the norm till about 1940. In that depressed economy no one wanted a war. We still believed the oceans protected us.
Alex S. Perry, Jr says, "Had Hitler been the kind of man history says he was and had he captured the British army at Dunkirk, which he could easily have done and should have done, he could have written the peace ticket without invading Britain. Churchill's worried son Randolph asked Churchill a few days after he became the prime minister how could he expect to win this war. Churchill replied, "I shall drag the United States in.""
I think over the years folks have written their version of history as they try to come to grips with the holocaust. And yet, when you look at the article written in 1912 "If I Were Kaiser" the entire program for WWII was laid out and originated when Bismark united Germany in the nineteenth century including the Jewish "Question". - here is a copy - http://www.h-net.org/~german/gtext/kaiserreich/class.html
Lindbergh was not alone believing they could avoid war. As I recall the Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain attempted to negotiate for peace but it was Churchill who wanted war.
Hindsight is great and had we known the system Hitler would use to achieve the program as outlined in the 1912 published piece none of us would have avoided the inevitable - as I recall our aversion to war was so great we would not accept a ship full of Jews escaping Europe so that they were sent back to face their horrors. In affect most, if not all of us, were Lindberghs.
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I hate took even think of what my life would have been like had Churchill.not stood ground. I saw what had to be done to hold them back at Dunkirk . Saw them coming to our doors to tell the man will not be coming home. Taking even the smallest craft boats to get the men back into UK from Dunkirk.
From both ww1and ww2. My family lost most our family men.. Having let Germany win that war would have changed the whole of Europe ..the US also.
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Yes, thank goodness for Churchill's determination - I do not think the book under discussion is about who was right or wrong but rather what happened -
Some very good people were trying to keep us out of war - The US only got in as a result of Pearl Harbor although, some young men were going to either Canada or England to fly before we as a nation entered the war -
There are books indicated that Pearl Harbor was a set up to get the US into the war because the majority in the nation did not want to be involved - War in Europe was considered far away over the ocean and had nothing to do with us. That almost immediately changed after Pearl Harbor although, quietly for a few years before Pearl Harbor there were government internment and deportation of Germans in the US.
My best friend's Uncle had only come from Germany a few years before and in '39 he was taken by plainclothes men with badges - I was young and did not know what branch of the government came for him but I do not think the CIA existed yet so it was probably the FBI that was pretty new as well. All to say the nation and many leaders may have been against entering the war but some officials must have seen Germany from a different perspective.
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'but it was Churchill who wanted war'
Barb, you should be posting this in the discussion. You have some knowledgable views on the great historical problem under discussion. The article,
If I were the Kaiser, written in 1912, by Heinrich Class, president of the Pan-German League, makes for very interesting reading. Not only was there a 'Jewish Question, but also a Polish Question, and a French Question, and a Russian Question, etc, etc.
Churchill, the standard-bearer for the English-speaking world, got his war. Diplomatic means weren't his strong suit. Thank God. It's like Jeanne says:
'I hate to even think of what my life would have been like had Churchill.not stood his ground.'
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Ohhhhh, J. edgar Hoover's FBI!?! Scary agency! Let's not forget the Kennedy patriarch who was fired by FDR for not having the right sentiments.
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Yes, US need to get into the European War in order to be able To Use. Australia, NZ and other Commonwealth Island in that area. Without them after Pearl Harbour the USA would have felt more of what wars are like. They would have gotten Into Hawaii for sure.
We all needed each other back then. Fact it is even the same today.
However I don't see any reason for getting involved in the Middle East wars. None would come to our aid if we needed them. For centuries they fought their own without any interference
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Aside from If I were the Kaiser, what about Mein Kampf? A spy story I liked had one character saying Why are people surprised at what Hitler does? Why don't they just read Mein Kampf? He spells it all out there.
Is this true? It was published in 1925, so that would be a clear warning. I haven't ever tried to read it, it's apparently pretty unreadable, irrational and raving. Does anyone know what he says in the book, whether he gives a good idea of what he intended?
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In this time now. Hitler would have been checked for insanity. Lot more now known about it. Lots of interbreeding in him I believe. Like sisters having children with brothers. Cousins marrying each other. Must have been hard him knowing who his father really was. Now a good brain test could be done. One little MRI.
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Think PatH what it was like in the twenties - first in the late nineteenth century roughly half of all 5- to 19-year-olds were enrolled in school. In the first 30 years of the twentieth century the blacks attending school stayed at the same percentage but not only did birth rate fall for whites but their attending school only increased to 51% - only 5% were college educated. At the time Germany has less literacy than the US - there was a craftsmenship program where boys from the age of as early as 8 but most at age 12 left home and spent 2 year periods living with a master craftsmen and then starting at 16 you roamed the countryside seeking employment that included board. Those from noble families were educated and there was a large Bourgeois in trade who were mostly Jewish.
People were pretty much only concerned about what was happening within their national boarders - if you saw the movie "Red" that recently was shown again on TV you can see the effort that went into a movement and the politics of the ruthless - Hitler moved in on a nation reeling and blamed for WWI in incomprehensible inflation - the rest of the western literate world was in Jazz Clubs with the likes of F. Scott Fitzgerald.
And so who would be reading Mein Kampf - probably only those who were thinking as he was thinking - and remember the Jews were the butt of all that was wrong for generations and as much a "problem" as Blacks were here during this time in history.
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I am thinking that like us - we are pretty much an educated curious lot - and yet, I doubt many of us read or was familiar with If I were the Kaiser - I shared it only to help us understand the plan for what happened during WWII was not new made up by Hitler - the plan included in If I were The Kaiser was the thinking among the leaders of Germany for a long time.
To them they were trying to unify Germany and to bring back to Germany all those who emigrated elsewhere. They needed more land to accommodate the returning Germans and they likened themselves to early times after Charlemagne when Europe was broken into three sections for each son and the land that is essentially Germany now was one parcel - that is one of the Reich's -
Remember the Nazis were saying they were the Third Reich - the time of Charlemagne was the first and there is a dispute which was the 2nd Reich. Some say when Otto in the 10th century gathered all and became the first Emperor and others say it was when Bismark unified Germany in the nineteenth century - all to say the 3rd Reich was to be a united Germany that included Prussia, the Slavic nations and the area along the Rhine including what is Alsace-Lorraine. Any area that did NOT have a direct relationship to Rome but to the Goths and the other tribes north of Rome that threatened Rome and that Charlemagne had included in his Holy Roman Empire.
The rest of Europe never wanted to see a united Germany especially they were afraid of Prussia that was a powerhouse in ability, raw material and could easily overtake all of Europe
Here is a copy of Mein Kampf - a literate work not sounding like written by a crazy man but worked out in logic based in different conclusions than our own experience or view of Germany's experience - reading it in light of the holocaust looking for an explanation for that madness is really hard to find in Mein Kampf - http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/
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Barb, in the quest to find its origins and identity, Germans turned to Tacitus's Germania as one of the main sources. A whole 40 pages long, it was used from the renaissance on in attempts to define a national identity and find those origins. A Most Dangerous Book by Christopher Krebs is about the "golden booklet" and how was used to it help promote these ends. The Washington Post had a synopsis.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-07-06/entertainment/35237087_1_germania-roman-historian-tacitus-blue-eyes
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Oh dear he has an ax to grind - he needs to either read his history or stop trying to make a name for himself by tapping into our preconceived idea of the barbaric nature of Germany - there was far more than the gathering of pagan tribes - this germania went on for several hundred years and the Popes were in on it from the beginning -
Freybabe this is an area of history that has been with me for years - not only is my library bulging with at least 2 dozen books that three fourths are about the various tribes on through the middle ages with a forth about Prussia and Bismark but it also connects to my research on what is called the Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity - also, there is a book by that title. I belong to the German club here in Austin that meets in the old school that was the first free school before public education in Austin. We are always sharing our latest reads and findings.
Long before Charlemagne, Julius Ceaser explains why he had not conquered and colonized Germania as he had Gaul. - he said, the land so thick with forests contained unicorns and other mysterious animals even though merchants traveled the length and breadth of the area there is a famous battle 'Teutoburg Forest' where Hermann defeated the Romans -
I do not know this professors exposure however, anyone studying from a French viewpoint is going to compare Germany negatively. French historians claim they were rooted in classical Greece and Rome - Augustus 63BC to 16AD established the Roman strategy towards Germania which was followed for Centuries that included the line of defense along the Rhine and the Danube - The Frankish king Mirobaudes was both the enemy and a servant of the Roman emperor - many of the solders were in service in the Roman army and adopted the paganism of the Romans, others converted to Christianity and others to the Jewish faith. the Goths especially became Christian and were the first to translate the Bible into Gothic. They subscribed to the heresy at the time that said, Jesus was a co-equal with God the father and was merely the best of human beings - that viewpoint, held by many groups later persecuted, was condemned at the Council of Nicea in 325.
It is after the Council of Nicea that the Roman Emperors loose their power. Christian Goths were persecuted by the pagan elite and Constantine, who opened the Council of Nicea welcomed them. Constantine is the beginning of the Pope's becoming the power house of Rome rather than the Roman Emperors.
The Germani by Tacitus was only published in 1497 that was based on an intense hatred of the 'French' and the 'Venial' Romans. Those hatreds run through out German history and came to a boil with the behavior of Napoleon's occupying forces which soured Germany against the impact of the French Revolution. Again in settling things in Vienna the Germans wanted to unify but Britain and Russia where afraid of Prussia that some 20 years later did create an economic association that unified the thirty-nine German states. That is when Germany tried to define itself and thought anyone who spoke German was part of Germany - the identity crisis continued till Bismarck unified using the slogan 'Blood and Iron'.
Back to the beginning that this Harvard Prof is not talking about - The various groups whose histories I have either read or are on my shelf to read are - the Goths - the Christian Goths whose leader by the way is Reiks and in German, Reich means empire - the Huns who became an ally - the Franks to the west along with the Alemanni - the Persians get into it attacking the Goths - Attila absorbs many of the Goths and expels the Visigoths - there are the Vandals, Sueves and Alans from Silesia - Attila attacks the Gauls - he marches into northern Italy holding court in Milan and Pope Leo the Great sends an envoy begging him not to attack Rome with the warning that after the Goths sacked Rome 40 years earlier their leader died - Attila died of a stroke on yet another wedding night so Rome is spared. The Huns are absorbed into the mix of essentially tribes each holding various views on God and the king of the Visigoths comes along to codify laws to unify all this mess but still he was no match for Clovis and this is where it gets interesting.
The Frankish King Cloves fells in battle the king of the Visigoths - Clovis, a Merovingian, trace their royal lineage to a mythical sea monster that gives them magical power so they alone can be the Merovingian King to control most of Gaul - the blood line is magical and can make crops grow by their walking in the fields and they could sing bird calls and tame wild beasts - Clovis had slaughtered all rival Frankish chiefs and was king of all the Franks. As a Christian he allies himself with Gallo-Rome and with intermarriage the Franks are no longer a Germanic Tribe but a European people. The Franks found monasteries and churches as capital investments - they appointed and dismiss priests - destroying the acceptance of the church among the people but preserving enough for the Carolingians. After his death the Merovingians become fat and lazy with his sons murdering each other -
The Vandals stay as a German tribe and are vying for power - The Irish monks, the Anglo Saxons, Saint Boniface, the Moslems, Frisians, Alemanni and the Bavarians all get in on this till finely, Pepin the Short, a Carolingian uses the Church as his trump card over all this magical blood. He gets Pope Zcharian with the Frankish Bishop to anoint him King. Pepin is the first King to rule by the grace of God.
From then on the Monarch and the Church were mutually dependent - The administration is centered in the Germanic district and the kings agents are elevated to judges looking after the affairs of church and crown. All the scribal and archival duties are handled by clerics because no laymen knew Latin or were even literate, including the kings. These judgeships become hereditary. Voila the Curia that runs the Church today. And since Pepin had to negotiate with Constantinople without equal authority he was given a greater title - soon after it breaks apart for reasons of ancient rights and privileges till Charlemagne revives the Roman empire and unites most of Europe.
And so the pride that Hitler leaned on was in the independent, unshakeable, brave who were considered morally upright, modest, chaste, honest, and hospitable early German tribes as opposed to the French and the Italian nature and morality. If you read some of the heroes that came out of WWI - German heroes that we recognize as such like Count Von Luckner called the Sea Devil who kept out of range from command during part of WWI and was an all round good guy. The Count had the morality and characteristics that Hitler hoped to re-ignite by calling for a Third Reich.
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Frybabe if you want one book that will give a good history of Germany from these early days to almost the present that seems to be less bias than any so far - it is the Cambridge Illustrated History of Germany by Martin Kitchen. There is another great historian but his books start at $159.00 each.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
What interesting, knowledgeable we have come in to chat with us here and on Seniors and Friends and with all kinds of interests and knowledge. That's what keeps me coming back everyday. Thank you all for sharing.
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I don't think Julius Caesar ever intended to conquer Germany, and he certainly wasn't turned back. By anything or anybody. He had no difficulty overcoming (once his army got over their fears, a fascinating read) the haughty German general Ariovistus, thoroughly routing him and his army in 58 BC. Their exchanges are hilarious.
Following his conquest and pacification of Gaul in 52 BC with the surrender of Vercingetorix, the French hero to this day, Caesar, long away from home, needed the consular office of 48 BC. From 51-50, Hirtius describes Caesar's activity: "Caesar had one main aim, keeping the tribes friendly, and giving them neither the opportunity nor cause for war...And so, by dealing with the tribes honourably, by granting rich bounties to the chieftains, and by not imposing burdens, he made their state of subjection tolerable, and easily kept the peace in a Gaul weary after so many military defeats..." The summer passed peacefully and he determined to leave Gaul with some of his army in 49. His lone remaining partner Pompey (Crassus had died on the battlefield). passed a law that he might run for consul in absentia. However since his office of governorship expired in 49 BC , the senate wished to recall him before he could be elected consul under a full army. Marcellus, consul in 49 BC, proposed he lay down his command by November and Pompey reluctantly agreed. On January 7 49 AD the senate ordered Caesar, now on the banks of the Rubicon, to disband. (That's a very short summary of a very complicated series of events). Caesar crossed the Rubicon, with his army, and everybody knows what happened then. Caesar returned to Rome.
Caesar was assassinated in 44 BC. The Battle of Teutoburg was in 9 AD. I don't think anybody could have stopped Caesar in war. The definitive biography of Julius Caesar is considered to be that by Christian Meier, translated from the German, but the Goldsworthy is gaining ascendancy for military history, and both were consulted for this post.
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Barb, I think the gist of the book was that people used Germania to promote their own agenda whatever that may be. Hitler and his bunch, for instance, were keen on taking the bits that helped them promote the German ideal and ignoring the rest (fidelity, independence, etc.). Taken as a whole, Germania was rather critical of the Germanic people. Tacitus himself never visited Germany. All his knowledge of the area came from the writings of others or in interviews with those who had traveled there. As the author, Krebs, said, Tacitus was a Roman, writing in Rome, for Romans. His writings would have been colored by the attitudes of the day and with a view to please the powers that be at the time. He even managed to survive Domitian's rule.
I didn't finish the book before it was due back at the library and probably will not go back to it. Too much Harvardese and somewhat harder to follow in spots than I cared to bother with. What I was interested in was why Germania was considered one of the 100 most dangerous books. My interests lay more in Roman history. Tacitus is considered one of Rome's greatest historians. However, reading what I did of A Most Dangerous Book reminds me that classical writers are no more unbiased about their subjects as most writers are today. Some just hide it better than others.
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Been reading tonight - Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia, 1600-1947 evidently there are many who have an ax to grind about Prussia that was wiped away with Churchill's hand at the end of WWII - he sure saw to it that Britain's old nemesis was removed from the map and tried to wipe out its history except for what can be used to bludgeon -
Seems this Prussia thing has legs - some are blaming the influence of Prussia's history as the cause of Hitler's horrors??!!?? Hitler was Austrian but some are saying he adapted the ways of Prussia repeating only the worst aspects of Prussia to support their argument - There had been a long hatred against Prussia by Britain, Russia and France - looks like Prussia is being made, by some the fall guy -
The center of Prussia was Berlin and I learned the word we see as part of towns and counties nearby "Mark" simply means marsh land. It was a sandy area where nothing would grow and no minerals to speak of - only as the land to the west was settled by folks from all over Europe were there cereal crops successfully grown that started the wealth machine for Prussia.
Back to the controversy. According to the Preface, Germany is struggling trying to sort out the blame that this Prussia thing is bringing up - the topic hits their guilt button active since the end of WWII - there was a large exposition, I forget the Museum near Berlin, where large collections of papers and artifacts etc. from Prussia were put on display with NO comment - the curators were not making a point but letting those viewing the material to make up their own minds. This controversy and the exposition was a major talking item on German TV for several years in the 1980s and 90s.
This author goes on to say how since WWII many are trying to brush Germany with Prussian history, painting all with a bold black brush - others in defense are too defensive so that a fair viewpoint is not easily found. I guess we call that polarization that is alive and well in this country.
The biggest issue with Prussia is their historical quick response and successful ability to go to war and to win wars - they had a disciplined, military attitude about life. On the other hand, Prussia was the most literate nation state with successful families sending their children off to Europe's universities as early as the seventeenth century and the Prussians were more literate than any other nation in Europe right up to the start of WWII.
Looks like as with most groups and many individuals there is a mixed bag and success can lead to un-comfort for the competition so that there is seldom a fair critique. All to say it appears that according to any author's mentors, reading and study material this issue can easily be written about with a bias slant.
I am anxious to get further into this book - sounds like there are emotional bombs going off still over a group of people that others feared for 400 years. And your search into Roman history - looks like it may be fun to do some reading into the culture and history of those groups that Rome thought were Barbarians living in Forests with unicorns. ;)
I started all this in earnest because I had two separate questions and never imagined they would cross - I wondered why Germany was only unifying mid nineteenth century when France had their revolution in the eighteenth century. And I have been curious about how the Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire and how the Christians were one minute being eaten by lions and the next thing you know they are running the show - also, I had heard the expression the Germanization of the Christianity and had no clue - now I am seeing how it fits and want to learn more.
All this is relevant today - during Vatican II all the German and Dutch Bishops and Cardinals represented a liberal block - they were labeled the Alpine group and recently most of the German Bishops have broken with Rome - I want to explore the history of how this is playing out - is it just politics or as I imagine, a difference in viewpoint with many happenings, education, cultural views to support each group - I want to find out what this is all about. Nothing like digging in when there are thousands of years to rifle through rather than a mere couple of hundred. 8)
Sounds like I need to read Germania and see what Tacitus had to say for himself. My German or Latin is no longer that good - hopefully I can find an English Translation.
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What a coincidence, Barb, that you mentioned the Germanization of the Christianity. I watched an old history of art program last night focusing on Romanesque and Gothic architecture. In it the host mentioned the term near the beginning of the program. It perked my ears because the phrase is new to me, but then the program quickly went on to other things without any real explanation. I wonder if the program was made anywhere around the time that The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity: A Sociohistorical Approach to Religious Transformation by James C. Russell was published in 1996. (I just did a search on the term and came up with the book title and a Wikipedia article).
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It is on my to read list - I wonder if you are right - bet so - I am amazed learning this stuff - I knew the popular view of things was skewed but had no idea the story behind all of this - looks like there are others into all this and we all have a tiger by the tail - I was amazed to learn at first about all these groups like the Goths and the Franks and the Vandals and now the names are coming easy to me as today we say Italy and France and Sweden. But following the history of the church is so fascinating - I feel vindicated in that some of this I learned as a child attending 'order' schools versus Diocesan schools but it was just touched on.
Part of this was when we read the book about the Natchi or however it was spelled with the Russian Jewish family that moved to Paris and Japan - I read at least a dozen books after that first bit trying to learn how the Jews got to Odessa and then what was the history of the hatred towards them - fascinating - looks like tracing back for 100s of years it was the middle class competition in trade but earlier it started with the Romans who were destroying Israel left and right - Then adopted by Christians when they were embraced by Constantine who took the symbol for the Jews off the flag, blamed them for fires in Rome but more, he replaced the Jewish symbol with the Christian cross.
I always thought that blaming the Jews for crucifying Christ was a rallying cry since there were no Christians when Christ Died - the first the word is used in over 100 years later - they were Jews who followed Jesus.
This is when I wish I had nothing on my plate and could spread out on my Kitchen table with books opened as cross references and really immerse myself.
What was the art program - sounds like probably PBS - do you remember the name of it or was it on Nova or another national weekly...?
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realize this is not the "proper" place for it, but since there are many more visitors to this forum, I thought I would put a warning here.
I received an E-Mail from my Discover Card account this morning. It did go to the Spam folder, but I looked at it there, and even though it had the correct name, and last 4 digits of the acct. number, something about the logo didn't look quite right. It mention that the Discover "home page" would be changing August 31st, and I could log into it now. WEll, I am a big spam watcher. Seemed funny to me, so I called the phone # on the back of my card, and first person I got, did not know anything about it, i.e. whether or not they had sent an email detailing changes. So they connected me to "Security" and I read it to the lady, and she gave me an email address to "Forward" it to: emailwatch@discover.com so they could check the validity of it. Now, it may be real, but my Discover notices do not usually get sent to my Spam folder. This is just a "heads up" in case any of you have a Discover Card. BE CAREFUL.
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thanks - I got one also - thank goodness I did not go into my account to check it out
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And, too, it's crazy when the folks who answer the phone don't know anything about it, or Security either.
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I had a similar email years back. I called the CC company and as you noted, the regular CSR didn't have a clue. I then talked to the Web Tech people since they are the ones working more directly with web pages and would most likely know about pending web design pages. I don't remember the outcome, but I do think I sent the email on to the abuse address the company listed. Like most companies, the left and doesn't often know what the right hand is doing, even in communications type companies. Tome, I've alerted a friend of mine who also uses Discover. Thanks.
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I started reading Alice : Alice Roosevelt Longworth, from White House princess to Washington Power Broker by Stacy A. Cordery,
it sounds like it is going to be very good. For those of you reading the present book for discussion, i was surprised to read that she was an America Firster, her father would certainly have been ready to go to war with the Nazis.
This may be a book that would be a good discussion book. She knew Civil War veterans, lived through two world wars and into the late 20th century. She had everyone to her table, including heads of state, as well as Washington bigwigs and was an astute politician. If she had been born 70 yrs later, she might have been the first woman president.
I've just started it, so i'll let you know if i continue to like it.
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to be so openly rude to FDR and Eleanor as lesser than among Roosevelts does not endear me to her prejudicial life.
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This book is the first to be able to use Alice's papers and letters with others, so i'm curious to see how she comes out in this book.
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I'm still enjoying the Alice Roosevelt Longworth book. It's very well written, lots of factual info but very entertaining.
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If any of you like to listen to podcasts, or like history, here's an iTunes podcast that will keep you busy for a while, The Podcast History of the World - altho each podcast is about 30 minutes long or less, so you can listen when you wish. You can get there by going to iTunes and search "The podcast history of the world" by Rob Monaco and hope that you get the actual downloads, or you can try this link.
http://podcasthistoryofourworld.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-08-30T15:56:00-04:00&max-results=6&start=30&by-date=false
The reason I say that is when I've gone to the podcast site on the pc it gives me the latest podcast - #34 and then you have to scroll DOWN thru many pages to #001. On the ipad - iTunes is obviously a an apple owned product - I can call up just the list which fits on one page and easily click on #001.
This was started by an out of work historian who is really doing a nice, thorough job of telling world history. His voice is very pleasant to listen to and he has some humor to keep us interested. It's an active site, he's still posting every week, or so, and you can comment. In the first post "Let there be History" he voices my theory of history exactly - history is stories of people and events with background and consequences. That's the way I taught it.
In a few months we will be traveling for a week, I'm planning on taking my ipad and listening while my husband is driving.
Jean
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We are starting up the Poetry Page again - the loss of Seamus Heaney is a big loss that only reminded me again of both Fairanna and Babi - both daily contributers to the Poetry Page. Fairanna started the Poetry discussion way back during the early days of SeniorNet -
Fairanna shared as much of her own poetry as she did the poetry written by others - and for about two years we had only shared the poems of one poet a month so that we learned more about the poet and his or her work. Fairanna had featured poets that where new to some of us and we did a month with Seamus Heaney - but more - she and Babi were partial to his poetry and often shared his work.
It seems fitting to honor all three in September - we will be sharing for a month poems and quotes by Seamus Heaney and any poems written by Fairanna that you may have kept in some file on your computer.
Hope you will join us - there will be links in the heading to some of the poems and quotes written by Seamus Heaney - any of them would be lovely featured in a post that can bring meaning to our day.
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I am reading People of the Century, a book about the 20th century published by Time and CBS News, AKA Dan Rather and Walter Isaacson. Rather writes a lovely intro about the century titled "The Reporter's Century" and then there are 100 longish bios (several pages) about each person (not in any obvious order) starting with Sigmund Freud and ending with Unknown Tiananmen Square Rebel. ( it's hard to say Tiananmen without including an extra vowel syllable :)) It ends with another nice essay "afterword" by Isaacson, "Our Century and the Next One."
I've just started to read the Freud essay. The essays are written by such writers as Edmund Morris, Lee Iacocca, Bill Gates, Molly Ivans, Gloria Steinem, Arthur Schlesinger, Jr, Susan Cheever, Peggy Noonan, William Buckley, Jr. And Colin Powell.
My library did not have the book, so i have it on library-loan for 3 weeks, but i see Amazon has the hard copy for $4.00. I think i will just buy it. I can see using it as a basis for a short course at the senior community where i sometimes give lectures in what they call their "university."
It might be an interesting book discussion for us here. The persons highlighted range through inventors, artists, entertainers, the American GI, poets, as well as heads of state. Pictures accompany each person's bio. It might take more than a month. Even people who did not read the book could comment on their memories and experiences and expertise.
It could turn into a mini-mini-mini Story of Civilization! ;D After all this would be merely one century of civilization.
I'm looking forward to casually reading through the book and searching for more info on each subject.
Jean
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The First Ladies" is back on CSPAN2, Edith Roosevelt is spotlighted tonight 9:00? Stacy Cordery, author of "Alice" ARLongworth's biographer that i'm reading is on the show.
Jean
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An article about the women behind the man, Pickering, who didn't get their fair share of recognition for their contribution to astronomy.
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2013/09/the-women-who-mapped-the-universe-and-still-couldnt-get-any-respect/?utm_source=smithsoniansciandnat&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=201309-science
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Just loving that series, have ordered the book, America's First Ladies from C.Span.
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I'm reading a book "Spell it Out" about why English spelling is so difficult. I hoped it would help with my awful spelling. Instead, it makes me feel that I'm doomed.
The basic reasons the spelling is so non-phonetic seem to be: first, there are 44 different sounds in English and only 26 letters to represent them. So in a time when there was no idea that there should be one correct spelling, different writers came up with different conventions to distinguish these sounds. Sometimes one convention took hold, sometimes another. So by the time the need for a "correct" spelling was felt, (codified in Samuel Johnson's dictionary) spelling was all over the place.
Second: words came into English from all over and retained traces of their original spellings.
My question: similar things must be true of all languages. Why is Spanish so phonetic? (the author says there are only two modern phonetic languages: Spanish and Welsh. (He doesn't mention Hebrew, which I thought was phonetic. Perhaps he's not familiar with it.) But he doesn't say how they got that way.
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JoanK with so much code being used in place of words today and how easy it is to mis-spell even on the computer keyboard much less texting - we are all guessing what the other person is saying so that is is beyond a joke any longer trying to communicate - spelling I think will become like classic music or classic literature - there will be some but very few with an appreciation for how words are spelled.
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Long as we now have Spell Check I have stopped worrying if I have my spelling is right. Being from UK were a lot of our words are spelled different, it use to be a problem for me as people thought I couldn't spell here anyway. The Pres. of one Job I had use to think that until I brought him a Dictionary from England one year just to show him there was a choice and as we spoke it first our way was right.
That is why when people learn English here as a second language they can speak it well but when writing it down it is pretty hard.
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Having taught English as a second language, I know!
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JeanneP, I'm with you on the spell check. There are some words I've never been able to spell (or remember how to spell) like the "dg" words -- prejudice, knowledge, and others.
Today on Morning Joe Mika B interviewed Sheri Fink, author of Five Days at Memorial:Life and Death in a Storm-raveged Hospital, in New Orleans during the time of Katrina. It sounds very gripping. I know there were a lot of stories and rumors surrounding that hospital, but I did not really follow any of them. This goes on my TBR list.
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Unfortunately, spell check doesn't tell you when you use a word incorrectly like wear/where or here/hear. My current spasm, as you all know by now is the misuse of I/me and us/we.
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Our local newspaper had a wonderful, full page article yesterday titled "This Essay May Literally Make Your Head Explode", about the use or mis-use of the word "Literally". It was so funny. I guess I could be classified as what he calls an "enlightened stickler". I get so bummed when the lady on the TV commercial says "I literally fell out of my chair". (then shouldn't we be seeing her in a hospital environment?) LOL! The essayist is Bill Walsh. Anyone interested can probably pull the article from the Sunday, Sept. 22 Dallas Morning News! You will get a tremendous laugh from the article if you are able to access it!
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That's a fun and informative article, tomereader. Thanks!
It's at http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/sunday-commentary/20130920-this-essay-may-literally-make-your-head-explode.ece
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Thanks Marcie, for posting that link. I wasn't sure I could do it, and had many irons in the fire this morning. Always someone here who is knowledgeable and willing to search things out for those of us with limited time and tech skills.
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Tomereader and marcie, thanks for that link. I definitely chuckled.
It also added a word to my collection of self-antonyms--dust. A self-antonym (my term) is a word which has two meanings, one the opposite of the other. My favorite is cleave, which means both to stick together and to split apart.
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I love your term, Pat! Self-antonym is perfect!
It is very odd that a word can mean one thing and its opposite.
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"Scan" is another one of those words - can mean to look over quickly or to read thoroughly and carefully. There are others, but of course I can't think of any of them right now.
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Egregious is another word that has changed over the years - not in meaning so much as in usage. Originally it meant, extraordinary in a positive light. Now it is mostly used in a negative light, as in extraordinarily bad behavior.
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Currently, a word I am sick of seeing -- it is used over and over -- is iconic.
Marj
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That and how nearly everyone under the age of 60 starts their thought with so - not as an conjunction or as an adverb - more like an exclamation because too often it is not a so in relationship to the interviewer's question - I find it maddening and what shocks me is to see professors utilizing this habit.
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Interesting conversation.
One of our PBS stations is showing a series titled "The History of Science." it's dated 2010, but i don't know if that is when the BBC - of course, the BBC - produced it, or if was shown in the U.S. before and this is a repeat. In any case, it is very interesting and well done - of course, it is from the BBC. Why doesn't PBS make such wonderful tv series? Or have i just missed some other then the Ken Burns productions?
Jean
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For what it is worth, I just became aware that the widow of the shooter who killed the Amish schoolgirls seven years ago has written a book about her life in the aftermath. http://www.amazon.com/One-Light-Still-Shines-Schoolhou/0310336759 It was a relatively local event here that went global.
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Don't think I would want to read that book. Someone is going to make money from it.
Last year when we went to Pa . I was surprised with how the Amish acted. Ours are private people but not like the ones in PA. so I questions some people who were close to the Amish but not that faith. They said that they bacame a lot different after this killing of the Amish Schoolgirls happened. They don't trust any people anymore. Keep more private and want nothing to do with others. Now the ones in Businesses they have to be polite Its their living but other would rather not be near tourist or anyone.
It still is a very hard thing that happened to them.
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And yet, the Amish in the community embraced her after her husband killed the children including the families of those who lost their children - it was remarkable to hear about at the time and so I am looking forward to reading her book - rather than being ostracized she was included and cared for in the Amish community.
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We never know how many people did except what happened and how many are still bitter. Papers always like to make things sound for the good. Same with the TV. One will never see a movie made of it but I bet there were people wanting to make one.. Will see what her book says. But I bet the Amish are not standing behind her writing it.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I've just finished "Beneath The Pale Blue Burqa"(one woman's journey through Taliban strongholds).
I found it captivating, as it relates the journey of a group of women including Australian Kay Danes(who with her husband spent 11 months in a Laos prison enduring torture and mock executions) to try to improve the lot of Afghanistan women and children. Her companions were a florist from Arizona, a nurse from Texas, a public servant from Australia, and a US Marine Korean War Veteran.
They went down the Silk Road, meeting groups of women and children, handing out things from toys to soap and giving advice. There are before and after photos of the Nangarhar women's prison, that the US Department had done up. What a difference!
The troops delivered swing sets etc. but what will happen when the allies are gone and the Taliban moves in?
The schools, the hospitals, the women's groups, women doctors and teachers, I shudder to think what the retribution will be.
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CSPAN's American History TV has a wonderful program on today on its Lectures in History series - "The Year 1968", by Leonard Steinhorn at American Univ. it will be repeated at 8:00 EST tonight.
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I am part way into the Charlie Chan book. The first section has a lot of historical background about Hawaii's immigrants/migrants. How Ah Pung (the "real" Charlie Chan), who could not read or write, came to be a part of the Hawaiian Police force is really interesting. Names like Dole, Parker, and Wilder, the big landowners, and Mark Twain, Robert Lewis Stevenson, and Jack London crop up here and there.
I really must read some of Jack London's books featuring Hawaii. The Wrecker was mentioned as having some truth in fact about a shipwreck that was salvaged.
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That sounds fascinating!
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I didn't even know Jack London wrote anything about Hawaii. In most everything I've read of his, everyone is freezing to death.
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:D
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When I went looking for The Wrecker in a list of Jack London's titles, I couldn't find it. I am going to have to double check my reading to see if I remembered the author correctly. Even though he is most famous for his Klondike books, he wrote
Yes, Jack London and his second wife spent time in Hawaii and Australia and cruised the Pacific in his ketch, The Snark.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruise_of_the_Snark
Wikipedia has a list of his writings which include three plays, poetry, non-fiction, essays, lots of short stories and novels. I was surprised to see that he was only 40 when he died.
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I'm talking about the new Johnny Carson bio in the Library, it's excellent, really well written and somewhat spellbinding.
Carson made the author swear never to tell any of this stuff, and attorney client privilege kept him from telling it while Carson was alive. I am thinking it's a good thing I don't have an attorney to spill my secrets to, because now that he's dead, here it all comes out.
If you swear never to tell then you never tell, right? Or if you explain to your friend you can't while he's alive, and he seems OK with that, then does that get you off the hook?
I'm of two minds about this. This is not a muck raking book, the author is respectful but Carson had some faults as do we all. I am pretty sure he wouldn't be pleased to see this all appearing but people have done worse things.
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I wonder how is children although I am sure well in thier 50s by now if not their 60s but how do they feel seeing their father's dark side in print - I bet they have their own stories because no child comes out of a divorce without wounds but at least they are not writing a tell all like Carrie Fisher did - do they get a cut from the proceeds of this book since it is their reputation that is going to be given a hit that they have to put on a bright face and laugh it off with those in their community who know they are his children - weren't they all boys so they carry his name.
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I've had good luck finding non-fiction books in the library lately that satisfy the science nerd in me. Finished "Antarctica" by Gabrielle Walker. A scientist-tourist view of the continent, mixing discussions of the many science projects going on there with history of exploration personal observations, and stories of the people who choose to stay there. Good writing carries you along, and makes you want to know more.
Now I've got "This Explains Everything." Apparently, there is a scientist discussion group called "Edge". Every year, they pose a question, and members write in their answer. This question is (as best I remember): what is the most beautiful, elegant scientific theory you've ever heard?
This publishes answers: two-three page essays by scientists and social scientists in a number of fields. Some are too technical for this casual reader (I see I am way behind in knowing what theoretical physicists are doing, and that's ok by me) but some are interesting.
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Am almost thru the 500 pgs of Alice Roosevelt Longworth's bio by Stacy Cordery. I found it very interesting, even in the details that made it that long, she made it an interesting story.
I was very disappointed in Sisterhood of Spies about women in the OSS. The first 50 pgs or so were all about Donovan, the head of the agency. It was also pretty boring in the writing. So, i gave it up. There are too many good non-fiction books i want to read, let alone adding the fiction ones. Whooooeeee! Can't waste time on ones that aren't interesting to me.
Jean
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I am almost at the half-way point in the book about Charlie Chan and his real life counterpart.
First, I went back and double checked who wrote The Wrecker which I mentioned in post 2606. It was not Jack London, it was Robert Lewis Stevenson.
One interesting thing in the book was a police car the was designed so that the driver could push a latch and all four doors would open at once. And here, I thought those old time films showing the cops bailing out of a car all at once were just a part of Hollywood show. Another is that Otto Von Bismarck coined the term "Yellow Peril".
I am now in the middle of a chapter about Sax Rohmer (Sax for Saxon meaning blade and Rohmer for roamer, a kind of take on the medieval knight of old) born Arthur Henry Ward. Rohmer's Dr. Fu Manchu is evil personified in a Chinaman vs. Charlie Chan who is on the side of good.
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Oh my all the shorts shown before the feature on Saturday movies - Fu Manchu and Charlie Chan - followed by a cartoon and then the feature - we all crowded in the front seats with some kids sneaking in the back door and the ushers trying to catch them - Saturday movies cost two soda bottles and a milk bottle - the two soda bottles turned in were 10 cents the cost of the movie and the milk bottle 2 cents for candy at the ice cream store which was cheaper than in the movie theater. Then all us Catholic kids had to be sure we were out of there by 4: often walking backwards up the isle to not miss the ending so we could run as fast as our legs would carry us to make it to confession 5 blocks away so we could go to holy communion on Sunday.
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We didn't get Fu Manchu and Charlie Chan; only Superman, and other super-heroes. And we couldn't pay with soda bottles, only money. My mom said we only had enough money to go every other week, so we would see the hero thrown in the well, but never see how he got out the next week. I think it scarred me for life!
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Our Saturday matinees were mostly cowboy or Ma and Pa Kettle types. The very first evening show I was allowed to go to with my friends unsupervised by parents was Flaming Star, one of Elvis Presley's movies. He sung the titles song, but didn't do any singing in the movie. It's the only Elvis movie I liked. I may or may not have seen one or part of one Fu Manchu and saw tons of Charlie Chan, but not until we got our first TV.
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Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, and movies with Randolph Scott were standard Sat. Matinee fare. Admission was 25 cents, and another quarter would get you enough snacks to make you sick, or at least ruin your supper!
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Right, TomeReader. Our theater manager would patrol the isles with his flashlight, and if the kids got to noisy, he would shut the movie off until everyone settled down. When I moved to another location, I got a real shock going to the movie in our new town. What a mess. Candy wrappers, popcorn, gum all over the place, and seats that were ripped. The kids were noisy and rambunctious. I never went back. It appeared that my sister and I were the only ones who went to actually see the movie.
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I'm just starting a book that seems very promising. Girls Like Us: Carol King, Joni Mitchell and Carely Simon and the Journey of a Generation. The author, Sheila Weller, a journalist and has had several NYT best selling books.. I am a little put off by the author's strange writing style. She seems to want to pack as much info as she can into every sentence. :D But in the first 50 pgs I've found the subjects compelling and their stories interesting. The author is throwing in a lot of song/lyric references, but most of them are interesting to this woman who is a fan of the 50s and 60s music and especialky of these three song writers
(Rewrite) I decided I didn't like the NYT's review, so here is the amazon page with more objective reviews, i think
http://www.amazon.com/Girls-Like-Us-Simon-Generation/dp/0743491483
Info on Sheila Weller
http://www.apbspeakers.com/speaker/sheila-weller
Jean
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This book came to my attention, and boy does it look interesting. Called We Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor, it is a collection of true stories of inspiration and survival gathered from letters she received telling of how her song, "I Will Survive", helped and inspired them in difficult situations. It hasn't been released yet (scheduled for Dec) , but I have a chance to read it ahead of time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DCX0X40/ref=tag_bro_botm_edpp_db2
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Ew yes, I got it as well since for now it is free for Kindle owners interesting in that it is a pre-order at 4.99 but free now.
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Just got through reading " Carol Burnett biography" found it boring after awhile. I did like her past shows. Found her funny. Once in I while I pick up these stars books. They are supposed to have written. Just out of curiosity. All seem to follow the same lines . Seems to be better to read about them after they have died.
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I finally finished the Alice Roosevelt Longworth bio. It took me quite a long time, (500 pgs) but it was very interesting.
There were a couple passages that i liked. One is about TR at Harvard. His ungraduate thesis was - are you ready for this - "The Practicality of Equalizing Men and Women Before the Law"!!! " It considered the topic of women's rights, including property ownership, and argued that women ought to keep their birth names upon marrying." !!! You go TR! (Alice didn't take her father's advice on that issue.)
The second passage is a quote from the New Yorker in the mid-20s "....an invitation to the Longworths is more prized by the discriminating than an invitation to the White House............Heavy politics are played at the Longworth house and Alice sits in.....She knows men, measures and motives; has an understanding grasp of their changes......It is too bad for the Roosevelt political dynasty that Alice wasn't a boy. She is the smartest Roosevelt there is left - the old Colonel's daughter in more ways than one. She has a quick, inquiring, original and penetrating mind especially equipped to cope with political situations for which she has an instinctive liking."
Apparently that was the opinion of many throughout her life until her death in 1980. She was friends with many names you would know: the Alsops, John. L. Lewis, the whole Kennedy clan, supported Jackie's marriage to Onassis, Buckminister Fuller, all the presidents and their families from FDR to the Fords, and people in their administrations, interestingly especially Nixon from his time as vp to his resignation, reporters, Ruth McCormick, Kay Graham.
She was invited to all the White House weddings and many state dinners into the Ford administration. Her last one was when Queen E visited the Fords, " they exchanged pleasantries about the diamond-rimmed purse that Mrs L. carried.....a wedding gift from King Edward VII in 1906........ When dinner was over.....a WH employee tapped (her escort) on the shoulder . 'We have someone who worked in the WH when Mrs Longworth lived here.' Hearing this Alice turned to greet a tall, distinguished, silver-haired African-American man who asked if she remembered him. She did. (There was many comments about her phenomenal memory. ) They launched into tales of WH life....she responded to his laughter with peals of her own. When they were through, he inquired gravely if he might escort her to her car. She gave him her elbow, and the two walked slowly away. That was her last visit to the White House." Isn't that a lovely scene?
Jean
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That is a lovely scene, and so like her. She added a lot of interest to the social scene here--no, I don't move in those circles, but she was well covered in the newspapers.
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Just a reminder, Big History will be shown tonight on History Ch 2 at 10:00. Tonight's episode is about gold's role in human history. Thank goodness H2 is doing some good things. The original History Channel has been tuned over to 15 yr old boys. ;D
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I think this is a book that will have to go on my reading list.
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2013/11/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath/?utm_source=smithsoniantopic&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20131124-Weekender
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Frybabe, I read the very interesting article about that.
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The History Channel2 is showing two great programs on American slang, 8 to 9 now.
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Frybabe, that's a really interesting article. Sounds like in this case, you can thwart your bodily chemistry by a combination of being brought up lovingly and forceful exertion of free will.
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Just ordered Charles Krauthammer's Things that Matter. Looking forward to reading it. I think Fox News has him doing something with the old William F. Buckly shows. I don't know if it is a series or just a once and done, and don't know yet when it will run.
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I have Krauthammer's Things That Matter on my TBR list. Saw he was on this week's BookTV program. Was not going to read it (I'm a liberal Democrat), but after reading the following Amazon reader's comments I changed my mind and think I'll give it a try:
The reader said, "I admit it: I got it wrong in my opinion of Charles Krauthammer. I thought he was just an unoriginal talking head mimicking the latest right-wing rhetoric. After reading this compilation of some three decades of his writing, I see that Krauthammer is a thoughtful intellectual. I may at times disagree with his perspective, but I can absolutely see now how he gets to said perspective. "
Marj
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Saw the interview Charlie Rose did with him and it was at first intriguing but anyone who can only see doom and gloom for our future turns me off and so I think I will pass on his book. I am not such the staunch died in the wool Dem but sure am a liberal and yet, still hold high my esteem for this nation regardless what the DC crowd does or does not do - and where his book may not be as doom and gloom his self-righteous attitude during the interview I cannot get past that attitude. It was what drove me up a wall about Friedman's last book so that I could not get past his 2nd chapter.
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Now with both your takes on Krauthammer's book, I am really intrigued. I don't like doom and gloom either, Barb, so if that's what it's like, I may not read much of it.
Barb, what was the name of the Friedman book that irritated you?
Marj
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Interesting take, Barb. I watch Krauthammer regularly and never thought of him as a particularly doom and gloom kind of guy or that his is self-righteous. Perhaps it had something to do with the kind of questions CR asked him. I'll have to listen a little more carefully to see if I can pick up on it.
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Do read "This Town" by Mark Leibovich. A deep look into the world of greedy, power grabbing denizens of Washington, DC We send these Congressmen/Senators to DC to do our Government's business on our behalf, and in the bat of an eye, they are only considering themselves and what they can get out of it. It is disheartening to say the least. It is a snake pit and surely one of Dante's levels of Hell. (and we keep sending the same ones back, election after election)
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I'm watching onCSPAN's "After Words" a fascinating discussion w/ Elizabeth Greenspan, an urban anthropologist whose written a book about the Battle for Ground Zero, about the battles over what to do with the land of the World Trade Center. The interviewer is Kenneth Feinstein, the administrator of the 9/11 Fund. He's doing a wonderful interview and she has very interesting information about the legitimate feelings/issues of the different sides of the battle. I'm finding it very interesting.
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Tome, I have This Town on reserve at the library. It is still a few weeks away before I reach No. 1. :(
Jean, I'm glad you mentioned After Words. I used to watch that regularly and somehow lost track this last year.
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That Used to Be Us: How America Fell Behind in the World It Invented and How We Can Come Back GRRRrrrrrrr
Sorry I do not see a world who is changing its political expectation that could only happen because of the USA investors and business mavrics creating twitter, facebook, and the computer to begin with as a nation falling behind - I do not see a nation that aside from the shenanigans on wall street still created more millionaires in the last 15 years than any other nation mostly among those in High Tech which is simply showing our ability to be inventive innovative and get others to believe in new ideas who financed this American, USA creative energy!!!
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I'm currently reading Caesar: the Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy.
Again. I have read OF it over the years, pieces where I needed it. I decided this was the year to read it through.
This is a huge book, in pages (almost 600) and size. It's available as an ebook but not as an audio book. It's the first book I have ever wished were an audio book. It's slow going.
Goldsworthy is an historian's historian. He begins the book with the background of Caesar's day, and this is so condensed that one finds oneself underlining every single sentence. Checking references. The references cited alone are exhaustive.
You know how it is with some authors. You can read and read and read and then he says something profound. You go, wow, and you underline that, maybe.
THIS book is nothing BUT profundity. Every single line in the Introductory passages until he gets to Caesar's childhood. That's because he has to condense several books and the entire Roman Republic, the entire first 753 years of Roman history as background into an introduction. It really IS an unparalleled accomplishment but until I got about 40 pages in, I feared I could not make it. For instance, I learned in the last few pages (1) why the Roman Republic was more like Britain than America, (2) what a publican (the ones mentioned in the Bible) really was (3) the real problem with the Gracchi and how the Republic really began to decline with the death of the first Gracchi, (4) how the Roman army was formed, and how Marius changed the face of Roman politics forever and many many MANY more important concepts. It's very slow reading.
The brain can only assimilate 7 new pieces of information at once then it shuts down. In Goldsworthy you get 7 new pieces in the first 3 sentences, so it's a slow process. But it's thorough and worth it.
5+ stars on a scale of 1-5.
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I have three of Goldsworthy's books. That is not one of them. Will look into it.
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Did you make it throught the book, Ginny? As you promised yourself that you would in 2013. With such heavy going, I'm surprised that you waited until December 31 to carry out your resolve and indulge your adventuresome sense of fun in the reading of this scholarly slog. Do audio books count as reads? I've heard of people using them as an excuse for a nap.
Got any good tips on speed reading? I'm determined to do better in 2014.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Jonathan.
I learned speed reading more than 20 years ago? It did help both in my work and reading for pleasure. Got through a book fast and retained what I read.
Now as I have aged I find it not so good. Trying to break it because I find I don't retain. I have to go back sentences some times pages . Find myself skipping lines.I want to slow down. Rather read less books now.
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Jonathan, (how are you feeling? Better, I hope), no, it's a 2014 resolution. I need to have it read by the 16th of January, tho.
Anyway, no, but I am on page 100 which is a major accomplishment with that book. Once you get past page 40 or so it evens out nicely and becomes less dense. I'm enjoying it and learning a lot. I'm reading it before sleep at night and in the morning, hoping I can remember it that way.
I have to admit that audio books make my mind wander, especially when driving. It's not the best solution for me, but I was kind of desperate. :)
I don't recommend speed reading to anybody. I read too fast as it is, and, like Jeanne, retain nothing. The only time I use a speed reading technique (the finger moving rapidly down the middle of the page one) is when I'm looking for a specific word in a hurry.
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I like the Woody Allen quote:
"I took a speed-reading course and read War and Peace in twenty minutes. It involves Russia."
Marj
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I wonder if the people over in the Defense Deptartment could learn something from Woody Allen's experience. Perhaps wars needn't be dragged out for years on end. Perhaps there is something to be said for the blitzkrieg.
Resolved. Achieved. I should have known, Ginny, that you were out of the gate before the gun. Congratulations. Your book sounds like those that come with a very erudite introduction, but become easier reads after that.
Yes, I'm feeling much better. I like to think the expereince has left me smarter. I walked out of the apple market carrying a bushel of apples to my car and heaved it into the trunk at which time I felt a small, dull pain in my spine. Every muscle in my chest got into a great tither about that and wouldn't calm down without a lot of painkillers and rest. Terrible suffering. No snow shovelling I was told by my doctor. I consulted three others before I found one who said: do what you like, trusting, no doubt, in my intelligence to do the right thing. Some experience. I hope I never forget it. Speaking of retention.
We've had a glittering holiday season here in Toronto. It seemed all the stars in heaven had fallen down and now dazzled us hanging there in the trees. Of course it was a heavy, freezing rain that covered the trees with ice and stayed there for a week. Absolutely dazzling - for a week - catching the moonlight at night and the sun during the day. And a wonderful snowfall as well. Snow has never looked lovelier, just laying there.
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Sounds glorious Jonathan - like a living poem - I'm back home - not as warm as I hoped but in another day it will be back up in the mid 60s which I prefer - While I was gone all the leaves blew off the China Berry and the Hackberry in back and the Elm in front - have a rogue post oak in my patio planter that really needs to be cut out of there but I will miss the prettiest maroon leaves that are still holding and are a real brown now.
The Jasmin, Magnolia and all the Live Oak trees are green and will stay green till Spring. Everyone is out walking or running or riding their bike - I love it - lots of folks to smile at or say hey as they passby.
Before I wind myself into any reading program this year I am determined to inventory - I finally figured out how to do some of it without hand writing everything - I plan on organizing into groups of like authors or like subject matter and take a photo so that I can read the title and author that I will store in a folder on my computer - I have DVDs and CDs and art supplies and needlework supplies, china, pots and pans I seldom use and and and that I want to organize, inventory - decide if I am going to keep it - photo what I keep and know where everything is located so I do not do any more of this duplicate buying that has been the bane of my existence for the last couple of years.
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I use Collectorz.com
Can enter all books using ISBN. Have software for books, movies, music.
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Well, I requested books and got them all at once: Blue Highways, This Town and the Poisoners Handbook. Of the 3, the Poisoner's Handbook seems the most readable.
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nLHome. Do you have anyone in mind? Never heard of "the poisoners Handbook.
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Oh Jeanne, you made me laugh out loud!
No, all is right with my world.
The Poisoner's Handbook is by Deborah Blum - on the cover it says "Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York." I believe a PBS program was based on this book, because my husband watched something with that title. I haven't read far enough to get engrossed, but it opens explaining how back at the beginning of the 1900's people could get away with poisoning others because there was no way of identifying many of the poisons in the body. So this tracks the development of the forensic science relating to poisons.
It's a very readable book.
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NLhome. So, your husband is safe. He read the book and you haven't . I think I will skip it . Not much can't be found in a system now. We just have to watch what we buy and eat from the grocery store . Takes a few people dying before the FOOD AND DRUG catch it.
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I watched the TV version of the Poisoner's Handbook, and it was very, very interesting. Showed how one guy, with some helpers, discovered how to determine if someone died of a particular poison, or did not die of poison, but other causes. A lot of the foodstuffs and products in the early years were poisonous. Several cases were closed due to his discoveries.
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I'm reading Freedom's Daughters by Lynne Olsen about women activists in Civil Rights. It's very well written, and a very easy read. Very interesting. Although i know all of the names she's mentioned so far, she has many interesting details i haven't know.
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I have not read Lynne Olson's Freedom's Daughters, but will add to my TBR list.
I really liked Olson's Troublesome Young Men;The Rebels Who Brought Churchill to Power. It's a fascinating account of the daring politicians who challenged the disastrous policies of Neville Chamberlain's government on the eve of World War II. One of the best of the troublesome young men was Ronald Courtland, younger brother of Barbara Courtland, the wealthy author of romance novels, who used some of her money to help Ronald become a member of parliament.
Marj
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I think I've found the "Poster book" (my word) for making an interesting subject boring -- "Brave Genius" by Sean Caroll. It's about two Nobel Prize winners, Camus and a chemist who fought in the French resistance when young. The thesis is that genius exists in every generation, but it takes extraordinary situations to bring it out.
I've gotten to the part discussing their work in the French resistance. The author describes in detail who came to every meeting they went to (although not what was done there) and all the organizations and who had what position in them. But glosses over their actual adventures in a few words. I felt like I was back working for the government.
I'm sure it is an important historical record, and a fitting tribute to these brave people, who were risking their lives, even just by going to a meeting. But it certainly doesn't make interesting reading for the casual reader. Sometimes the aims of scholarship and of writing are different.
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I just ran across and downloaded a couple of books by Felix Dahn. He was an historian, but I think several of his works are fiction. He was popular in his day. His works were influential in the formation of German national socialism, and we all know where that led. His books are part, I think, of the struggle of the German people form an identity and history of their own. Some elements of his writing appear, from a brief comment I read, to have put forth the notion of racial purity via an admonition against mixed marriages. I have been curious about the migrations and struggles of people during the late Roman Empire and early Dark Ages, the collapse of Rome's (government) influence, the rise of feudalism and city/states, and early Catholic Church influence. It is a period, before the crusades, that I know little about, except for some reading I've done of early Popes and Italy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Dahn
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Frybabe a book that will be very helpful to that period is The Cambridge Historical Germany by Kitchens - goes into how the early kings of essentially tribes that soon had large land areas, kept themselves in power till finally, in order to win over the people from the lackadaisical sons of Cloves, who when he was Baptized with all his people and who was the first sole king of the Franks after defeating the last Roman governor of Gaul, Charles Martel, son of Pepin III got Pope Zacharias to be the first Pope to anoint a King - this was the most powerful way they could get rid of the Merovingians, sons of Clovis. The Merovingian kings believed they had magical powers in their veins that could make crops grow by walking across fields and interpret bird-songs and the calls of wild beasts. Powerful magic needed a powerful counter attack - thus the Pope.
This cemented kings being subject to and dependent on the Church in Rome. As history continues there is a constant which is the Germanization of the Catholic Church. There is a book I have intended to purchase with just that title. However, to learn how the downfall of Rome was picked up with the elevation of the Church it is more valuable to read about the Peoples not included in the Gallo-Roman history but rather read the history of the Vandals, Visigoths, Franks, Alemanni's, Goths on to the Carolingians till you hit Charlemagne when the whole kit and kabudle of Europe was the Holy Roman Empire with the Pope as its head equal to, if not superior to Charles the Great.
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Thanks Barb. I'll look into it.
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Three books I am adding to my reading list:
The Girls from Atomic City by Denise Kiernan
The Mad Sculptor: The Maniac, the Model, and the Murder that Shook the Nation by Harold Schechter
Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach
Has anyone read The Girls from Atomic City?
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I've read The Girls from Atomic City. It's a good book, and an interesting look at Oak Ridge, TN, from a woman's perspective. Oak Ridge is still an interesting city, and the whole development was fascinating. It might lead you to read more about the area and the time.
Sorry, I guess I assume everybody knows that Oak Ridge was originally a secret facility built by the government in the early 1940s to develop the atomic bomb. I'm sure there is lots of information out there to google and read.
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I'd heard of Oak Ridge, but not much. Found out that it is near Knoxville when I checked a map in conjunction with reading Blue Highways. And Knoxville, I discovered it real easy to get to. All I have to do if follow Interstate 81 the whole way down and then a short run on the highway it ends at.
PS: I am also learning interesting things about the history of The Oak Ridge Boys, who also have a connection to the facility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oak_Ridge_Boys
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I hadn't heard of this title but I will be reading it. I've been through Oak Ridge while traveling but didn't stop at the museum.
I do remember my family being a B&B for friends of my parents. He and his family were on their way to Oak Ridge to a new job but he couldn't talk about the job.
I remember hearing of the Oak Ridge Boys but know nothing about them. Will take a look at your link, Frybabe.
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My gosh, I now know more than I needed to know about the Oak Ridge Boys. What an interesting history they have had.
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And if you get to Knoxville (and Oak Ridge), come on down south on I-75 and stop in to see us in Chattanooga. It's only two more hours.
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Because she got bogged down in it a friend loaned me Diane McWhorter's Carry Me Home, a history of the civil rights activities in Alabama. So i've started it. It is 700+ pgs in the smallest print i've ever seen. But the 70 pgs i've read have been interesting. I am skimming some of it. She started with her ancestors, some of whom where in the KKK.
It won a Pulitzer and is very scholarly. I told my friend it may take me a long time to get thru it and she said to keep it as long as i wanted even if it's a year or two, i told her it might be! :D
Jean
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Read an interesting book: "The End of Night: Searching for natural Darkness in an Age of Artificial Light" by Paul Bogard.
He talks about something that has really bothered me: the fact that you cant see the night sky anymore. 80% of people born now will never see the milky way. Here near LA, I'm lucky if I can see three stars on a clear night.
Like all books, some parts are more interesting than others, but the best of it is fascinating. he gives all kinds of reasons why this matters -- I know it matters to me.
It seems it would be impossible to reverse this trend, but some simple things could slow it, like putting hoods on streetlights and banning searchlight advertising. This would also save tons of energy that is just being wasted.
Some parks are now having "dark sky" tours, for people who have never seen a dark sky.
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JoanK, my library doesn't carry this title, where might I find it? When was it published?
I know we could drive out to the ocean for more darkness in Torrance but you had to also get to a place on Palos Verde Drive where there was no light. There is a chapel on that road, further along and I think there might not be any lights after midnight. But that was back in 1989? That was 25 yrs ago so we were much younger then! ;D ;D. I will search for that chapel's address. You and your son might like to drive out there just to see the place. It is quite a beautiful place. Bye for now!
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The husband of my cousin in Tucson is an astronomer, and is very interested in problems with light pollution. I haven't talked to him in a while, but I know there are folks working on it.
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Oh, call him Maryz, maybe he knows some things that we don't know about.
Like JoanK's mention of the parks in Torrance offering "dark sky" tours.
Joank, I am leaving a link to that chapel that I mentioned on Palos Verdes Dr. Give's its address and phone number. You could call them about "dark sky" tours and ask if their parking lot is open at night for star watchers. Even if you and your son go in the daytime, you'll love the grounds and the chapel.
http://www.wayfarerschapel.org[/b]
Did I mention that Loyd Wright, Frank's son, designed the chapel??
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AdoAnnie, We haven't had much contact with them over the years - I just remember this. He did work with the Kitt Peak Observatory in Tucson. But I googled dark skies, and got this link...
http://www.darksky.org/
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I become aware of how there are lights everywhere these days even on roads with houses or businesses only intermittenly when my daughter talks of driving somewhere "that is SO dark on those roads." I forget that she has grown up in only lighted areas. She's 42, we live in suburban Philadelphia.
The first time was when our son was coaching a college football game at Colgate in northern NY. We drove there, she coming after work, so in the dark. She and her husband, who grew up in suburban Newark, NJ where you never see stars, were effusive about how DARK the roads were. Last week she was in Columbia, SC and drove to western SC to visit relatives and again talked about "roads with NO lights."
I grew up in rural Pa and have always loved a clear, dark night when so many stars are visible.
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MaryZI love that site and have bookmarked it for later viewing.
Mabel
I grew up in Indianapolis,IN. I remember watching the Northern Lights from my grandparent's back yard. And seeing stars,too.
My granddaughter, 36, graduated from Colgate. I seem to remember seeing stars from that campus when we attended a senior art evening. Tiny campus, out in the middle of nowhere. Its in a tiny little town, too. Not many street lights.
We are glad to have a Wesleyan campus telescope up in Delaware, OH, where you can watch the stars from their unlighted hilly lawn. People go there frequently to get a look through the telescope but the professor, who's in charge up there, told us that we could see just as much using a good pair of binoculars.
Watching the pleides starbursts one night from a couuntry road, I was amazed how easy it is around here(in Gahanna,OH country) to see the stars.
We spent a week on Fripp Island, SC,in 2004, Seeing the stars there is a wonderful experience, especially from my SIL's deck which is the top of her garage. She is very close to the Atlantic. If you are too close to the water there, the waves coming in raise a watery myst that blurs more than the stars.
Another place we watched the stars (in March of '96) was from an island off the N/W coast of Florida, just south of Apalachacola. St Georges Island had almost no lighting at night at that time. Was just private beach homes then and very few of them. Now that there are big hotels on the island, that has probably changed.
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ANNIE: thank you so much for that link: I had heard of the chapel, but didn't know where it was. I didn't mean to confuse you: the "Dark Sky" tours aren't in Torrance, just various parks around the country.
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Have you clicked on MaryZ's link?? An eye opener for sure. Its nice to see that many people are trying to prevent so much light around the world.
I hope you get out to see the chapel, JoanK. We took people to see that place many times. Once while seated in the back of the chapel, we saw one of our party climb up to the pulpit. Then, he spread out his arms, as if he was giving a sermon. And his wife could be heard claiming, "I always thought Dan should have become a minister! He looks perfect up there!" Needless to say, he took a lot of good natured ribbing for her remarks. But, I knew she meant that he looked like his father who was a minister.
At the time we were out there, I don't remember seeing what they are showing on the website. Looks like, down the road aways, that there is a building you can go to and find out is the chapel is open for a wedding on a certain date. Well, its been 25 years!
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I've saved the Dark Sky link, and hope to look into both it and the chapel. you seniornetters are the greatest!
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I just read about a book I want to read when it is published this month. SELECTED LETTERS OF ELIA KAZAN (who directed the films East of Eden, A Streetcar Named Desire, et al.) What caught my attention was one of the letters which was an apology to his wife for having a short affair with Marilyn Monroe. He writes of Marilyn's crying as she tells him, after Joe DiMaggio's death, of how DiMaggio often hit her and several times beat her up. There's a lot more about other subjects and I doubt I'll read them all, but this surprised me.
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying, WILSON, by A. Scott Bert (the new excellent biography of President Woodrow Wilson.)
Marj
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Found an interesting title on Project Gutenberg. It is an 1869 book, published 30 years after the last of the serialized episodes of Oliver Twist was published. Called the Seven Curses of London and written by James Greenwood, it lists seven parts: Neglected Children, Professional Thieves, Professional Beggars, Fallen Women, The Curse of Drunkenness, Betting Gamblers, and Waste of Charity.
I went to the end of the book, and the very last chapter, called The Best Remedy, begins with this sentence. "All other remedies considered, we come back to that which is cheapest, most lasting, and in every way the best—emigration."
By the time this book was written the "Clearances" had been going on for at least a 100 years to rid the countryside (primarily Ireland and Scotland) of people to make way for agricultural and industrial improvements. It was in effect class warfare because it was carried out primarily by the rich landowners against their poor tenant farmers. It was also used to rid the country of criminals and those perceived as inferior (primarily those of Celtic background).
James Greenwood was a social journalist who was known as the first (or one of the first) investigative journalists. He is mostly unknown today. http://thevictorianist.blogspot.com/2010/10/james-greenwood-1832-1929.html The previous site is mostly about his social writing, the next has more biographical background. http://spartacus-educational.com/PHgreenwood.htm
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I read Mark Kurlansky's "Salt" several years ago and probably mentioned it at the time, but our library book group is discussing it, so i'm skimming it again. I find it quite interesting.
I didn't finish his "Cod" book however, i found it not nearly as interesting as "Salt". I also liked his Dancing in the Streets about the song and the civil rights movement, and I liked his book "1968".
He talks about how important salt has been in many developments throughout history. From the intro.........
"The search for salt has challenged engineers for millennia and created some of the most bizarre, along with some of the most ingenious, machines. A number of the greatest public works ever conceived were motivated by the need to move salt. Salt has been in the forefront of the development of both chemistry and geology. Trade routes that have remained major thoroughfares were established, alliances built, empires secured, and revolutions provoked - all for something that fills the ocean, bubbles up from springs, forms crusts in lake beds, and thickly veins a large part of the earth's rock fairly close to the surface......almost no place on earth is without salt......for all of history until the 20th century, salt was desperately searched for, traded for, and fought for. For millennia, salt represented wealth.....it was taxed...and often used for money."
Jean
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I've heard of the book, Salt, but never read it. But you made it sound so interesting I've added it to my TBR list. Thanks.
From Amazon, I see that he wrote a book about the Basque people, THE BASQUE HISTORY OF THE WORLD; THE STORY OF A NATION, which looks interesting. Kurlansky, the author, says "They are Europe's oldest nation without ever having been a country. No one has ever been able to determine their origins, and even the Basques' language, Euskera—the most ancient in Europe—is related to none other on earth. For centuries, their influence has been felt in nearly every realm, from religion to sports to commerce " Some Basque people must have immigrated to California because Bakersfield, CA has a couple of Basque restaurants I've always meant to try.
Marj
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A favorite book of mine is FROM THE LAND OF GREEN GHOSTS; A BURMESE ODYSSEY by Pascal Khoo Thwe (304 pp, 2002). I loved this autobiography of a remarkable young man who lived in the mountains of Burma among the Padaung people (their women, called "giraffe women." had necks elongated by rings), his wonderful childhood, later a jungle fighter under the regime of the dictator, General U Ne Win, and his accidental meeting with a Cambridge don who enabled him to attend Cambridge University.
(I had posted this in another section when someone mentioned Burma, and AdoAnnie asked me to post it here because it sounded interesting.)
Marj
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Interestingly, some of the people in the Salt book discussion thought it was very or somewhat interesting, some thought it was tedious and repetitive. :D As we said in the 60s, different strokes for different folks. And isn't that just great.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Jean, count me as one of those who thought Salt was fascinating. It could have been a bit repetitious, but I didn't notice. I was especially interested in the salt pans along Italy's eastern coast, and of course, Avery Island and the campaigns during the American Civil War to capture and hold salt mines.
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Today I am picking up from the library Stiff : the curious lives of human cadavers by Mary Roach and have requested This explains everything : deep, beautiful, and elegant theories of how the world works, edited by John Brockman.
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Oh, good, Frybabe, when you've read it, will you explain everything to me?
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It will be a while, PatH. I am behind three people. In the meantime, "Stiff" is not only informational, but it is pretty darn funny too.
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I've started "Salt". So far, I find it interesting, but a little scattershot. Fascinating to think of the Celts as "salt people".
And I read the book recommended here about George Washington's spy network in the Revolutionary War in New York, and enjoyed it very much. I'll especially recommend it to a friend from Long Island, although she may be more familiar with this history than I was.
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Stiff... is incredibly interesting. So far, I've learned about crash tests, ballistics research, medical research, what body parts of animal most resemble humans, embalming, and rates of decomp. Mary Roach has even included a segment on how they decided what happened to Flight 800 from the condition of the victims they retrieved. I have seven chapters to go yet.
JoanK, Salt is also incredibly interesting - more than everything you ever wanted to know about salt. My favorite parts were about the salt pans and trade along the eastern coast of Italy and, of course, the Civil War/salt connection as well as Avery Island and how Tabasco Sauce came to be.
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Marj The green ghosts book is laying right at my fingertips but before I read it, I must continue reading "I Always Loved You". Very good book!
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So, Frybabe, I took your recommendation and reserved a copy of "Stiff" at my library. I had seen blurbs about the book before, but somehow it didn't seem like something I would care to read. You changed my mind! Maybe not all of our recommendations will suit someone, but we darn sure get "hits" as well as "misses".
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FRY: I'm just amazed as I read how many things I thought I knew about have connections to salt and the need for salt!
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Do you get the feeling from the book that the whole of civilization and its' endeavors revolves around salt and little if anything else (like water for instance)?
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Just noticed that on History2's series "Big History" there is an episode on"Salt". Mark Kurlansky comments in the episode.
Jean
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Still reading Stiff. You know all those SciFi movies/TV where detached heads are running computers, or are attached to other bodies? Frankenstein comes to mind. Believe it or not, there were (still are?) real experiments involving just such a scenario. The dates noted in the book range from the 1800's to the 1990's. Did you know that a head/brain does not lose consciousness for about 10 to 12 seconds after it has been detached? EEEEEUUUUUUUUU! I think of all the chapters I've read so far, this is the most disturbing. Three more to go.
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Two more titles to add to my TBR list. Salt and Stiff! Short list of what sound like interesting books. My f2f group read "Salt" way back in the way back machine and they loved it. That was about 10 years or longer!
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Frybabe wrote "Did you know that a head/brain does not lose consciousness for about 10 to 12 seconds after it has been detached? EEEEEUUUUUUUUU! I think of all the chapters I've read so far, this is the most disturbing"
EEEUUUU is right! Maybe that's why the advice to keep your head on your shoulders!
Marj
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Marj, apparently executioners of old kind of figured out that the head didn't die right away. The Guillotine executioners noted how the eyes from the head in the basket would follow you and the teeth would grind and gnash for some time. The last chapters deal with alternate ways handle the remains of loved ones. One alternative to cremation is called water reduction. Think crime scenes where the bad guy dumps a body in the bath tub and pours lye on it to dissolve it. If I remember the reading correctly, a small amount remains, but most of it goes down the drain. I wouldn't want to end up in someone's drinking water. UGH. The last is composting. Sounds strange, but I like the concept considering I told my sister just to cremate me and scatter me around a tree or something. The neat thing about this is that the whole body gets used, not just what gets left after cremation. BTW, I have to check on this as it may have changed, but the author says the EPA does not regulate Crematoriums. When she wrote the book, there was growing concern about Mercury pollution.
All in all a very interesting book. Mary Roach did her best to keep the subject from getting gory or morbid.
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PS: The last chapter of Stiff is about how you can, if you wish, donate for organ transplants or to scientific studies. I didn't read that one.
I am on to another non-fiction book now: The End of Empire: Atilla the Hun & the Fall of Rome by Christopher Kelly. I decided to read that before I pick up The Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages 400-1000 by Chris Wickham. If I am still into a history jag, I guess Caesar: Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy will be next. From there, I can move forward in time again. I have more books and info about the period up to Vespasian. After that my personal library is very thin indeed until the Middle Ages.
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My library has two differently titled Salt books; I'm going with the later one, The Story of Salt (2006). Also tempting is What? and the Basque history - how can a language have no connection to any of the others?
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The author of the one i read, Jackie, is Mark kurlanski and yes he wroteabout the Basques also.
Jean
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Some of you have seen me talk about my work with the Aluce Paul Institute. There is a new book coming out about her work on the Women's Suffrage Amendment. I hope someone will write the second half of her life: writing the Equal Rights Amendment; working for 50 yrs to get it passed in Congress; working with internat 'l women's groups on women's rights; sheltering Jews during WWII in her home in Switzerland; working with E Roosevelt to write the Declaration of Human Rights for the U.N. Charter, etc.
Publisher's Weekly gave the new book a starred review. Here it is....
http://publishersweekly.com/978-0-199-95842-9#path/978-0-199-95842-9
A small group of the founders are having dinner with the author Jill Z after the debut of the book at the Alice Paul Institute.
http://alicepaul.org
Jean
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Regarding D-Day, From the History News Channel newsletter today:
"When President Barack Obama joins other heads of state in France to mark the 70th anniversary of D-Day on June 6, attention will focus on the Allied offensive’s main landing site, the beaches of Normandy.
"But on a continent that saw a generation slaughtered in combat and millions more perish in the concentration camps of Poland and Germany, there are many other poignant reminders of World War II.
"In a small town in France more than 300 miles south of Omaha Beach, people will gather to remember the worst Nazi atrocity on French soil. Although what happened here didn’t change the course of the war like the American arrival at Normandy, it’s important for how the war is remembered today.
"Three days after D-Day on June 9, 1944, an armed Waffen SS infantry unit from Hitler’s brutal Das Reich regiment rounded up this town’s entire population in an act of revenge for the alleged kidnapping of a Nazi commander by the French Resistance. The men were massacred with machine guns before their bodies, some still alive, were covered in hay and incinerated. Women and children who sought refuge in the church were locked in and the building set alight. Of the 500 people inside, only one child survived."
A very interesting book to read is A BITTER ROAD TO FREEDOM; A NEW HISTORY OF THE LIBERATION OF EUROPE by William I. Hitchcock (446 pp, 2008).
Per Booklist's review: "Americans often overlook the wartime experiences of European people themselves -- the very people for whom the war was fought. In this brilliant book, historian William I. Hitchcock surveys the European continent from D-Day to the final battles of the war and the first few months of the peace. Based on exhaustive research in five nations and dozens of archives, Hitchcock's groundbreaking account shows that the liberation of Europe was both a military triumph and a human tragedy of epic proportions. Hitchcock gives voice to those who were on the receiving end of liberation. This book recounts a surprising story, often jarring and uncomfortable, and one that has never been told with such richness and depth. Ranging from the ferocious battle for Normandy (where as many French civilians died on D-Day as U.S. servicemen) to the plains of Poland, from the icy ravines of the Ardennes to the shattered cities and refugee camps of occupied Germany, The Bitter Road to Freedomdepicts in searing detail the shocking price that Europeans paid for their freedom."
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Sounds interesting, Marg.
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Here's a recommendation. American Nations (http://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures-ebook/dp/B0052RDIZA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402158228&sr=8-1&keywords=colin+woodard) by Colin Woodard.
I'm just starting it - John's finished it and really liked it. Check it out.
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Another interesting book to read! Thanks, MaryZ.
Marj
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I am not a fan of non fiction, but this one sounds interesting, Mary Z. l will check & see if library has it.
Sally
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That's terrible. we certainly should find out more about it.
On a lighter note: a fun book to browse through is "The Things that Nobody Knows" by William Hartston. It's literally what it says: questions that science or history hasn't figured out yet. Everything from how Tchaikovsky died to why ambidextrous chimps are less successful at digging out termites than left or right handed chimps. Laced with quotes extolling the exploration of the unknown.
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Fun for you and me, Joan, but what a shock for those who think they know it all. By the way, Tchaikovsky still lives.
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Jonathan: ;)
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JoanK,
;D > I could have told you that about myself! :D. I always tell people that I am ambidextrous and that I won't ever grow up until I choose one hand or or the other! ;D. Forever young! That's me! Tra la tra la! :D
Ralph and I are on our way home after a delight filled visit with my sister, Mary and her extended family in Morganton, NC. We met so many wonderful folks and Mary showed us all over some the mountain towns. Banner Elk was our favorite. And Lake Lee where we enjoyed a cookout and a pontoon boat ride as the sun was sinking into the west. And we met the sweetest little fella' named Gage who just entertained everyone at yet another cookout. We have been coddled and spoiled for 8 great days. We are in Beckley, WV and will be leaving the mountains behind us tomorrow. Sob, sob!
Back to the discussion of "I Always Loved You".
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Annie: is that Berkley? I have many fond memories there.
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I’m currently reading American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard. It’s a fascinating look at why the various sections of the country (plus Canada and Northern Mexico) are the way they are.
I’m reading so slowly these days that I can only manage one book at a time, and it takes a while. I do better with nonfiction, though.
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Maryz i have that on my 'to read' pile along with several others mentioned by others.
The book reading a premise that is riveting is about the South China Sea and what is going on that we never hear in the news - the nations around the South China Sea are not as strong as China where as in the North, Japan and South Korea can give China a run for its money - in the south you have Vietnam that is the strongest and now one of the strongest allies to the US, Malaysia, Singapore that is a nation state, even Australia all depend on the support of the USA in order to maintain their borders and keep China at bay - the issue that is causing the low level tension for the rest of the world and high level tension for these 9 nations are all these Islands and yjrot continental shelf that is being jockeyed over for ownership - it seems instead of planting a flag as we saw adventurers who claimed land for a particular nation for hundreds of years now it is planting an oil well - it is the resources in the South China Sea that are beyond any other region in the world including the Arabian Peninsula -
Islands are mentioned that I never heard of - thank goodness for Google maps - the majority are vacant raw land but now are spouting an oil well and that oil well is determining national ownership - this all sounds benign until you hear the amount of the national budget these nations are spending on their navy and defense systems - Robert Kapan, the author explains that many of these nations have upped their defense budget to be a fourth of the economic value of the nation and some are spending more than we in the USA - in addition the silent subs and other new navel shipping and rocket launching, most is purchased from Russia, is far ahead of US purchased technology.
He is suggesting the 21st century we will fight our wars at sea rather than on land and he gives a whole layout of why and then, nation by nation he covers the history of each nation to give a greater understanding of the people and their thinking and how they are affecting each other. I did not know that South Vietnam has a history of art and other aspects of its life that go back thousands of years and China has always been its enemy where as North Vietnam has intermingled with China for centuries. So much of the history of these nations easily explains the last century and now this century.
We may have the middle east taking all the air in the news but we better start learning about this area of the world - now it makes sense why over a year ago Obama had a contingent of Navy ships stationed in and around the South China Sea.
It is not a big book to be packed with so much insight - The book is - Asia's Cauldron: The South China Sea and the End of a Stable Pacific by Kaplan, Robert D.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812994329/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Thanks, Barb, I have downloaded it to my computer and my iPad Mini so will have it available to me while traveling this summer.
MaryZ, I will try to find your book later On Overdrive.
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We have a 3-way tie for our next month's discussion. Please help us decide on a book for July. Vote now at https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/77TM6S7
The books are:
Girls of Atomic City: The Untold Story of the Women Who Helped Win World War II by Denise Kiernan
The Greater Journey - Americans in Paris by David McCullough
Lucky Jim by Kingsley Amis
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For those who want to read Twelve Years a Slave Project Gutenberg has the original, free. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/45631
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I am reading Christopher Kelly's The End of Empire: Attila the Hun & the Fall of Rome. He makes it a little hard to follow the Huns and Goths. There are maps, but guess what! Many of the rivers and other land marks he mentions are not on the maps at the beginning of the book. There are no general migration maps at all. I have resorted to the trusty Google maps to find maps of the old empires and migration routes for the period. While I am at it, I am listening to Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkC3chi_ysw
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Well I am happy to see the non fiction discussion board lives on. Its certainly is not because of my activity. It would seem as I abandoned the site after my last book discussion with Ella last fall. I hope to see myself more active here again in the coming months.
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Looking forward to your posts, Harold. Glad to see you back up here. What have you been reading lately?
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We discussed Team of Rivals, I think, quite awhile ago. I started the book, did not get into it because of various distractions, but as I found a copy at a library book sale, it waits on my shelf. This past weekend we spent two days in Springfield, IL and visited the Lincoln Museum and various other sites in the area. So now I'll have to pull out that book and start reading it again.
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For those of you wjo read or saw Mounument Men, i thought you might be interested in this article of people being trained to save Syrias artifacts.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/09/140903-syria-antiquities-looting-culture-heritage-archaeology/
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An interesting article. I've seen the Monument Men documentary and recent movie---both very good.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
I'm reading 3 non-fiction books in bits and pieces, you know, you pick them up and put them down from time to time..........
A Helen Keller bio. She was so much more than a person who overcame unimaginable physical limitations, altho i still haven't figured out how she did even that, let alone being involved in many social movements as an adult.
Carry Me Home by McWhorter, a history of Birmingham civil rights movement by a dgt of Birmingham.
Alice Paul:Claiming Power, the story of APs life of working for the women's suffrage movement up until 1920.
Publishing companies are getting my ire as they publish indepth books with a lot of information in the smallest print possible so as to not have to add pages. Those last two books are printed that way, which is one of the reasons that i'm reading in bits and pieces. It's tiring to read and, surprisingly, i find i comprehend less quickly with less white space around words. I know, that's a good reason to read them on my ipad, but i wanted these two hands-on books in my library.
Jean
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Nlhome, I found the big problem with Team of Rivals was the way she chops and changes among the four rivals at the start, so it's hard to keep them straight. I kept a little log, and it was a big help until I eventually sorted them out.
If you went to see Lincoln's grave, you probably drove by the spot where my husband's parents are buried and I recently buried my brother in law.
Did you see New Salem? I think it's important in understanding Lincoln's greatness to see how he started out.
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PatH, thanks for the suggestions. I will need something, as my reading time is seriously limited right now and there are gaps of time when I can't read for my own purposes. A log is a good idea.
We did not have time to get to New Salem - our other purpose in making the trip was to pick up a puppy, and that limited our time (and my husband's span of attention).
The cemetery was beautiful, and we were there early in the day so it was very peaceful. I'm sorry for your loss.
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I'm reading a terrific recent nonfiction book, FLASH BOYS; A WALL STREET REVOLT. It's easy to read for dummies about Wall Street, like me.
The book description says, "Flash Boys is about a small group of Wall Street guys who figure out that the U.S. stock market has been rigged for the benefit of insiders and that, post-financial crisis, the markets have become not more free but less, and more controlled by the big Wall Street banks. Working at different firms, they come to this realization separately; but after they discover one another, the flash boys band together and set out to reform the financial markets. The characters in Flash Boys are fabulous, each completely different from what you think of when you think "Wall Street Flash Boys is an uplifting read. Here are people who have somehow preserved a moral sense in an environment where you don't get paid for that; they have perceived an institutionalized injustice and are willing to go to war to fix it."
Marj
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I'm sampling a strange book: "The grapes of Math" by Alex Bellos. Strange facts about numbers. Really strange, like the emotional responses we have to certain numbers. (Many people have a favorite number: do you?). Natural pattern numbers make.
Not a book I can read straight through, but fun to dip into.
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I've just finished Jeane Slone's She Was an American Spy During WWII. The writing was not good, but the story was very interesting. It is a fictional account of several women who were spies in Vichy France. The story focuses on an American woman whose husband was fighting in the war, so she felt free to become involved in the Intelligence Service. Yes, it is fiction, but i thought it was close enough to fact to put it in this discussion and there is a very good bibliography, as i mention later in this reply.
There is a lot of information about her training, although, like the title of the book, written in a straight-forward, minimalist narrative. At the end of the fiction account she describes the real women the fictional sketches portrayed, and what happened to them after the war, or at the end of their lives.
There is also an extensive bibliography, most of which i assume was non-fiction. I'm glad she added that because this book whet my appetite for reading the real stories of women spies. I knew there were some newly published ones in the last decade.
It was one if the free ebooks on Amazon. I'll check to see if it is still free. If it s not, i'm sure it's very inexpensive.
Yes, it is still free and she has two other one's also free - one was She Built Ships During WWII, and one was She Flew Bombers in WWII
oops! Correction! The books are free to Kindle Unlimited Or Amazon Prime patrons. For the rest of us they are $4.99
Jean
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Just picked up a book "What happened to the Metric System: or How America Kept its Feet." Has anyone read it?
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Haven't read it Joan, but i would be interested also in what happened to the idea of USA using the metric system. I was just discussing that with my grandson. ........ Love the title.
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I'll let you know. it promises a complex tale.
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It's wonderful to see non-fiction still being read, even if it seems a bit borderline. DGMW. As a Canadian I still get a thrill driving across the border and watching the miles go by. Of course the whole world wonders why the US has not gone metric. Is it because your sentimental about miles? Robert Frost has that famous line about 'miles to go', and I'm looking at William Buckley's literary autobiography: Miles Gone By. I believe the two were good friends and had similiar goals.
What I do regret is those neigbors, or is it cousins, who drive into Canada, see a sign MAX SPEED 100, thrilled to see the miles fly by, get caught in a speed trap....alas! ps 100 kph converts to 65 MPH.
She Was An American Spy That looks interesting, Jean. And it reminds me of another book on my shelf I've been meaning to read. Spymistress, by William Stevenson. Is it mentioned in the bibliography in your book? Vera Atkins is described in the subtitle as 'The Greatest Female Secret Agent of World War II. And on the flap: 'She recruited and trained several hundred agents, including dozens of women, whose objectives were to penetrate deep behind enemy lines, and local resistance fighters, destroy enemy targets, help Allied pilots evade capture, and radio vital information back to London.'
On the cover: 'In the real world of spies, Vera Atkins was the best.' Ian Fleming
Just flipping through it gets me excited. Absolutely. I suggest it for discussion. Anyone interested? How's this for a chapter heading: 'She Could Do Anything With Dynamite Except Eat It.' Only 8 pages. I wonder if something blew up prematurely?
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Yes, Spymistress is mentioned in the bibliography and Vera Atkins is mentioned in the epilogue of the book which describes the real agents that the characters in the fictional account portray. Her character's name in the book is Vivian Armstrong. She was the major recruiter of women for the French section of the SOE ( Special Ops Exec - spies who worked with the French underground) After the war she went to Germany with the British War Crimes Commission to discover what had happened to 18 agents who had disappeared. She visited concentration camps and interrogated guards and found out what had happened to all but one of the agents.
In March 1946 she interrogated Rudoph Hoess ( that's the way it's spelled in this account). One of the German agents who "wrecked havoc on the French resistence" said she was the most effective interrogator he had seen, so he and Ian Fleming were in agreement.
In 1987 she was appointed Commandant of the Legion of Honor, i'm not sure what that entailed.
Yes, Jonathan i would be interested in reading that book.
Jean
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Thanks for the information, Jean. I had a feeling that the amazing career of Vera Atkins might have inspired a part of Jeane Slone's book. I'm going to look for it. In the meantime I'm finding Spymistress a wild intelligence jigsaw. Rudolf Hoess appears late in the book. I get the impression he was the Kommandant at Auschwitz. Not the Rudolf Hess who flew off to England early in the war and was then convicted at Nurenberg after the war.
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Oh, Jonathan, that makes sense. I just jumped to the conclusion that it was jusr a different spelling of Hess. Thanks for catching that
Jean
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I got a sample of "Spymistress." It makes my head spin by jumping from one subject to another. Not sure I'll read it.
Similar problem with "Whatever happened to the metric System?" he's following the development of measures, by jumping around through history. It'll be a while before I know the answer to the question.
I have found out that some of the people who fought to keep our present system did so on the grounds that the metric system was based on "things" While OUR system was based on people! (Nothing like bringing in irrelevant emotions).
I knew the "foot" was based on, well, the size of a foot. Didn't realize that the yard is the length of an armspan and a furlong is the length from fingertip to middle of chest. (of course all sizes measured with men!). So men carry their own measuring system with them. (Women are out of luck).
But now I'm reading how Thomas Jefferson developed the first money system based on the decimal system.
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JoanK I remember those measurements always used when Mom purchased fabric and even when I first started to sew for my family - actually measuring sticks I do not remember being used till someplace in the 1960s - the thumb was an inch and the forearm was a foot and you measured a room by walking measuring your steps since feet were less than a foot so a short step did the trick - and yards were from shoulder to fingers and those who gave extra extended their fingers to the edge of the middle finger - nothing very accurate but then we did not have industrial counters corralling pennies to dollars and good will was more important than advertising.
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BARB: I forgot the thumb. I posted backward above. A yard, as you say is a reach (from the center of the chest to the end of the index finger) and a furlong twice that: an arm span. But if a woman was cutting the clothe, you were being cheated. I measured a friend, and she's nowhere near a yard.
Now to measure my 6'4" son.
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I always considered a yard from the tip of my nose to the fingertip at the end of my outstretched arm. One of our lady basketball players has a 7 foot (!!!) "wingspan" (from fingertip to fingertip outstretched).
Also, as a general rule, your height is equal to that wingspan - although this gal is "only" about 6'2". :D
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The stories of women spies in WWII are just popping up everywhere, apparently there were many more than we could
https://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/france-awards-highest-honour-modest-wwii-spy-heroine-064259134.html;_ylt=Ask9fd_7zzinqOkcFKegjBbxq.V_;_ylu=X3oDMTI1aHBrdDlqBG1pdANXb3JsZCBTZWN0aW9uIE1lZGlhVG9wU3RvcnkgTUQEcG9zAzQwBHNlYwNNZWRpYUJMaXN0TWl4ZWRMUENBVGVtcA--;_
Sorry, i couldn't make it a smaller link
Jean
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A non-fiction book is proposed for January: "The Boys in the Boat." Drop by, see what it's about, and let us know if you'd like to participate.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=4517.0
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JoanK is it for January or February?
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Oh my goodness, BARB! Thank you. I've corrected my post.
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I just finished 13 Hours by by Mitchell Zuckoff and Annex Security Team.
Starting out with a bit of background about the team that tried to rescue Ambassador Stevens and the others at the US State Department Special Mission Compound in Benghazi as well as protecting the Annex during the attacks that followed, the book chronicles the events leading up to the attacks on through to the final evacuation. It is hard to believe that only 13 hours passed from the first report of the attack on the Special Mission Compound to the evacuation of the last American. What stands out for me are the attempts to rescue Amb. Stevens and Sean Smith, the mortar attack on the Annex, the difficulty the guys had of determining friend from foe, and the valor of the men who were determined to save as many Americans and other staff as they could knowing they were woefully under manned.
The book is neither political nor politically motivated. I am, however, having a hard time finding a review of the book that does not try to politicize it, and in some cases, point fingers.
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A while back Frybabe described Stiff--The Curious lives of Human Cadavers. I've got one to add to it: Working Stiff--Two Years, 262 Bodies, and the Making of a Medical Examiner, by Judy Melinek and T. J. Mitchell. I wasn't the only one to read the favorable reviews; there was a long hold list at the library. It's a very good job. Melinek describes her two years at the New York City Medical Examiner's Office learning the job, flipping back and forth to other parts of her life, such as how her feelings when her father committed suicide helped her to find the right words to say to the families of suicides. The co-author is her husband, a professional writer, but it's all told from her voice, though he appears a lot in the story. She started in the summer of 2001, so she was still a rookie when 9/11 hit--a heartbreaking baptism of fire.
There are many sort of whodunit cases, in which she has to tease out what must have happened.
The book has one considerable drawback. She describes many of the bodies in very accurate detail, including wounding, decomposition, etc, and sometimes what it must have been like to die that death. She's being low-key, but if you don't have a VERY strong stomach, I don't recommend reading it.
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Not quite sure just where to put this one, but here goes. I only asked for one specific book at Christmas.. Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. I started it yesterday, but I can see where I will have to be slow and patient with it. Too much and I just managed to depress myself as he described the descent of older humans in the last years. You find yourself standing in front of the mirror and trying to decide how many categories you fit into. Is anyone else reading it??
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I just finished reading "Stiff". Enlightening, but morbid in places.
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Steph, I devoured Being Mortal! And loaned it to everybody who would take it. A couple of friends (with husbands with serious problems) had trouble getting to mid-book, but then found a lot of good in the latter part. One of our daughters has it now, and I plan to pass it along to the rest of them before I re-read it.
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OK.. I am not to midway yet, but I do hope for a little more cheerfulness.. I know I am old and I also know I have some of the problems, but at this point, I guess I are like Alice(?) I just want to be independent.. and happy.,
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Found the lovely coastal travelogue for nautical lovers of the south coast of England, From the North Foreland to Penzance by Clive Holland. It ends at Penzance, Cornwall. I didn't know Penzance was a real place.
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On the last third of Being Mortal and much happier with his answers to problems. Now to find a place that is like that when I no longer want to be alone in the house.
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Glad you found some value in it, Steph.
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My favorite nonfiction book recently read was NO GOD BUT GOD; THE ORIGIN, EVOLUTION AND FUTURE OF ISLAM by Reza Aslan. A fascinating book about Islam. Per New York Times review, “Wise and passionate . . . an incisive, scholarly primer in Muslim history and an engaging personal exploration.” Especially interesting to me was his talk about how Islam now undergoing a reformation, just as Christianity once did. Another excellent book by Aslan I read not long ago is THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS OF NAZARETH.
Marge
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The thing that disturbs me about Islam is the same problem I have with some forms of Christianity.. It simply is that everyone has their own form of belief and it is wrong to hold it against them.
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Yes, that is what the author of these two books said in his interview on the Charlie Rose show - that we bring to and thus create our own version of religion that includes our social economic values and our political and community minded viewpoints as well as, local traditions.
When I was a kid and the world was not as connected I saw that played out every year on Holy Thursday - the Thursday before Good Friday and Easter Sunday - it was a tradition to visit 3 churches on Holy Thursday - Each was different including the prayers that were traditionally part of the visit - there were always, mostly kids from the church letting you know what was expected. Some had candles to light others did not, some, with more than one organist took turns playing all day, mostly sacred music indigenous to the nationality where most of the parishioners had emigrated and then, the garb worn by the priests was different since they were mostly order priests rather than diocesan priests - needless to say, what was considered sinful was a part of this mixed American and national indigenous culture.
As to Islam the more I read about the Middle East and its history the more I am aware we lump the whole area into one when it is a wide swath of land and it would be like saying Mexico, the U.S. and Canada were one cultural area with the same viewpoints, language and problems. And then to top it off we in this country have focused on the idea there is a Sunni Shia divide that is paramount; the more I read, it is the affiliations and traditional wars between tribes, their leadership, politics and traditions that if given some attention could unravel some of what is going on.
These tribal conflicts and traditions were under control for hundreds of years during the time of the Ottoman Empire and then after WWI, after the Empire foolishly aligned themselves with Germany and lost, this part of the world has been like a ship without a rudder so that strong nationalized leaders held it together till recent times when the average person, through technology, could see they were not living the good life and wanted to bring that about. Most it appears thought by going back to the way of life and traditions of the past the glory days of the past would come about which includes strong tribal affiliation - it is a shock, that is only settling in, that it is not working out.
I have been reading mostly about the Arab and Persian peoples and now I need to read how the Kurds fit into all of this. I am also picking up that what happened in Syria was not a cry of revolution from within but rather an outside group agitating the discontent - worming out anything about the beginning of the uprising takes time and work that I do not have just now. I am also seeing a difference in authors viewpoints comparing western authors, middle eastern authors educated in mostly Britain, and native authors many who were journalists.
One of the best books I have read that really lays out the goings on in Afghanistan since just before the Russians till now and written more like a good novel than a dry history is, No Good Men Among The Living: America, The Taliban, And The War Through Afghan Eyes by Anand Gopal - fabulous read.
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I'm reading a very interesting nonfiction book which I recommend: IN THE LAND OF INVISIBLE WOMEN by Qanta Ahmed, MD. The author grew up in England in a moderate Muslim family, and then studied to become a physician. She moved to the United States and lived there for several years in Manhattan as a single woman. When the government refused to grant her an extention on her visa, she accepted a job as physician in a hospital in Riyadh, the capitol of Saudi Arabia. She tells fascinating stories of her attempts to become adjusted to the shocking rules in the Kingdom's police state not only those of the Saudi royal family but also of the religious police who were everywhere enforcing their own rules. In one story she tells of female physicians being required to insert the stethescope into their ears which ears were covered by the shroud they were required to wear, making it almost impossible to hear the important noises of a patients heart. Also a woman physician was not allowed to argue with a male physician's diagnosis. Makes one, as a woman, so glad to be living in the United States.
Marj
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I finally found a good book; have been tossing out so many duds unfinished lately. Frybabe recommended it: 13 HOURS; WHAT REALLY HAPPENED IN BENGHASI by Mitchell Zuckoff. Very interesting, especially the history of Libya. Did not know that Mussolini had his nose there too. I remember as a young girl seeing the newpaper photo of Mussolini hanging after the people got hold of him. What a monster, executing all those people in the Benghasi area (10,000?) I wanted to know what happened there more recently where all the right-wingnuts have been blaming Hilary Clinton for letting our ambassador be killed.
Marj
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Barb StAubry recommended NO GOOD MEN AMONG THE LIVING; AMERICA, THE TALIBAN AND THE WAR THROUGH AFGHAN EYES. Thanks, I'll get it.
Two other books I read some time ago and recommend on Afthanistan history are
TOURNAMENT OF SHADOWS; THE GREAT GAME AND THE RACE FOR EMPIRE IN CENTRAL ASIA by Karl Meyer
THE GREAT GAME by Peter Hopkirk
Marj
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I read The Great Game a few years back, as well as several others having to do with Afghanistan and surrounding areas. There are others waiting to be read, mostly travel or military accounts during the 1700's and 1800's. Several of the books I read are recent, like The Bookseller of Kabul and The Places in Between.
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I thought THE BOOKSELLER OF KABUL was a terrific read. I felt sad for the women in the book, especially the one who wrote to her friends that she hoped she would be returned in the next life as a stone, not a woman.
Marj
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My newest Project Gutenberg acquisitions include a book on the Pennsylvania Dutch dialect, a book about the building of the Bell Rock Lighthouse (including lots of draftsman's drawings) by Robert Louis Stephenson's grandfather, Robert Stephenson, and the account of the excavations at Thebes between 1907 and 1911 by Howard Carter and the Earl of Carnarvon.
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Fry: the excavations were by Howard carter and the Earl. Is the book also by them?
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Yes, JoanK. If you are interested, here is the download page. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/48382 Lots of pictures. If you don't care to download, just click the html link.
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For those of you who have read The Boys in the Boat, but don't go into The Library, here's what I posted there:
When we were discussing The Boys in the Boat, I kept trying to get a chance to talk to my neighbors across the street about it. They are a family of rowers, the parents for fun now, though she was on a team in school, and the son and daughter on school teams. But they're busy, and hard to get hold of long enough to talk, so I didn't get a chance until now. I asked if the author got it right about what it's like to row on a team. "Absolutely; he got it exactly right." Of course they loved the book
Several years ago he gave her a boat for her birthday--a one-man (or woman) thing, long and skinny, just wide enough for your rump, a royal blue, with beautiful lines. It turns out it was made by George Pocock. When they bought it, it had suffered some damage, and they had to do a lot of reglueing, but it's in good shape now. I'll have to take a better look the next time they take it out.
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Found another book on Project Gutenberg for anyone interested in early American Indian life.
The Life and Times of Kateri Tekakwitha by Ellen H. Walworth
An early convert to Christianity, she lived in the mid to late 1600's and was known as "The Lily of the Mohawks."
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/37421
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I'm reading an interesting book: THE RISE OF THE VULCANS; THE HISTORY OF GEORGE BUSH'S WAR CABINET. I've always been curious to understand why this group was so anxious to get us into the war in Iraq. The Amazon summary of the book says: "When George W. Bush campaigned for the White House, he was such a novice in foreign policy that he couldn't name the president of Pakistan and momentarily suggested he thought the Taliban was a rock-and-roll band. But he relied upon a group called the Vulcans—an inner circle of advisers with a long, shared experience in government, dating back to the Nixon, Ford, Reagan and first Bush administrations. After returning to power in 2001, the Vulcans were widely expected to restore U.S. foreign policy to what it had been under George H. W. Bush and previous Republican administrations. Instead, the Vulcans put America on an entirely new and different course, adopting a far-reaching set of ideas that changed the world and America's role in it. Rise of the Vulcans is nothing less than a detailed, incisive thirty-five-year history of the top six members of the Vulcans—Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Armitage, and Condoleezza Rice—and the era of American dominance they represent. It is the story of the lives, ideas and careers of Bush's war cabinet—the group of Washington insiders who took charge of America's response to September 11 and led the nation into its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. (Actually, how many people would have known who was the president of Pakistan? I sure wouldn't have known, but, then, I was not president of the U.S.)
Marj
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I'm now reading an interesting book called, A Spy among Friends: Kim Philby and the Great Betrayal by Ben Macintyre.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/books/review/ben-macintyres-a-spy-among-friends.html?_r=0
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"The Story of Civilization" discussion is continuing We are up to the 15-1600s, and discussing the laws at the time. Come and join us if you are interested.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=64.2360 (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=64.2360)
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Thanks, JoanK, for the update on the Story of Civilization group. Is Robby still around? I know he used to moderate it, and was perhaps the person who started the group.
Marj
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No, although he looks in once in a while. Trevor from new Zealand runs it.
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I just finished reading "The Residence". I found it both interesting and entertaining.
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I may look in on the Story of Civilization group. love history. I have the entire 11-volume set and had meant to read thru them all, but, of course, never finished them.
They are really interesting, altho. a prof. at UCLA poo-pooed them when I said I liked to read from them.
Right now I'm finding Ken Follett's On Wings of Eagles fascinating. The true story of how Ross Perot arranged to get two of his executives out of an Iranian prison in the late 1970s. Colonel "Bull" Simons led the group that rescued them. I'd never heard about him, but finding him very interesting, along with Ross Perot who I didn't pay much attention to back when he was running for president.
Marj
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'MY favorite furniture is bookshelves.'
I have to smile every time I see that in your post, Marj. You should see my place. Not a room in the house that doesn't have bookshelves in it. With lots of history on them, or built right into them. Including the Durant's Story. His and Hers. I too am sorry to see that discussion ending. It was always interesting to look in. In fact, I was going to join the party when they got to the Age Of Voltaire, my favorite volume.
Since you're keen on history, you might find An Honorable Englishman interesting. The biography of Hugh Trevor-Roper, the distinguished historian, is absolutely absorbing. JFK loved reading him, along with so many others. It makes one realize that most history is made at universities.
I have to tell you about Claude Jenkins, mentioned in the book. He was Regius Professor at Oxford. But let me quote: 'He was an Oxford eccentric....Piles of books on both sides of the steps up to his rooms left only a narrow corridor for visitors to ascend, before they squeezed into a study so stuffed with books as to be almost impenetrable. Even the bath was filled with them. Jenkins mind was as chaotic as his rooms....'
Have you by any chance read American Raj: Liberation or Domination? It's about 'Resolving the Conflict Between the West and the Muslim World', by Eric Margolis. This guy really plays with historical fact. But very readable.
I was asked just this morning by a senior friend who is downsizing...could I use a bookcase. Of course. I've had my eye on it for years.
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Bookcases are precious! But I've run out of wall space to put them! however, some of the ones I have are short -- they could be replaced by tall ones.
the kindle has solved the problem. I have over 1000 books on it or recoverable from the archives, and I can hold it in my hand. But it's beginning to get squirrely! If it goes bad, do I lose all those books?
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I would definitely check with Amazon before it "goes out". Just call and tell them it is acting "squirrely" and inquire as to what would happen to your books if it croaks. They are very helpful.
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Yes, a front bedroom where I used to sew had two full walls of bookcases the third is windows with a table between and the fourth is a wall of closet that yep, the top shelf of each is books. I ended up getting two collapsible 36 high bookcases and put them at right angle to the wall of books leaving about 18 inches between and then the two are back to back still room to walk around and even sew if I ever get back to that again - no room for the cutting board and table though - but like all of you, books everywhere in any unused drawer and the top of every closet except the pantry and my bedroom closet - none though in my bathroom but I saw in a friend's house once how she had them piled in her bathtub - since she had a separate shower it worked.
I do not have a 1000 on my Kindle as you do Joan but many - mostly books I will simply read through without wanting to go back and a few collections that I have not gotten to yet, including Voltaire - Joan I think all our books go into the cloud so that if we get a new kindle or even if not and just want to read them online they are there.
Jonathan have you read 'A Visit from Voltaire' by Dinah Lee Küng - a delightful little story but it really brings Voltaire to life far better than the small section of his life Nancy Mitford wrote about in Voltaire in Love - he is a ghost seen by a housewife who left her remarkable career to go with her new husband to his hometown in Switzerland where together they raise two children. The Swiss village is not far from some of Voltaire's old haunts across the border in France. Voltaire, using the earmarks for an eighteenth century successful party helps her plan and carry out a party - the entire story is charming and a real snapshot of Voltaire, his passions, beliefs and outsized but refined ego.
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OK Joan just go to the link called your account and a drop down includes - manage your content and devices and viola there are all the books you have downloaded.
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My Kindle 2nd Gen has gotten slow even though I still have almost half the storage space available. I sometimes wonder if it is because I delete books I have read that I got from sources other than Amazon. When the Kindle reboots itself, I believe it cleaning old files up, but I don't think it actually defrags the space like the computer does. It is not a good idea to defrag it from your computer defrag program. I did that once, not knowing that Amazon did not recommend it. It messed up my Kindle for a bit. The only other problem I had with it was that once, it rebooted itself and it removed all my collection files. My ebooks (or most of them as far as I could tell) were still there, but I had to redo my collections. I keep wondering how much longer the battery is going to last. I heard you can't replace that yourself, but since I haven't had to, I haven't looked into it.
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Thanks for your book recommendations, Jonathan. I'll look for both of them. That was a funny bit about Claude Jenkins. I remember reading about someone who died when hisbookcases fell on him and trapped him in his apartment. So be careful about yours, Jonathan. No, I haven't read American Raj, but it sounds very interesting. Right now I have waiting The Balfour Declaration by Jonathan Schneer. I think I read this quite a while ago, so it will be a re-read.
And thanks for your recommendation, Frybabe for the book about Philby, A Spy Among Friends. I've heard about him. I see (NY Times?) that Philby also wrote a book about it, as well as two of his four wives.
marj
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Barb, I wonder if anyone now sews clothing using a sewing machine. I know I do not. I used to. Back in the 1960s I made all my maternity clothing, as well as other dresses that I wore to my secretarial job. Now I just go into town where a nice little old man shortens my slacks and other things as needed for me -- much easier. I went to buy some thread recently and was surprised at how expensive it was.
Marj
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I have a sewing machine that I bought but never used. I am going to have to try it out soon because my windows are long by a couple of inches, and I can't find suitable kitchen curtains. It is sooooo easy to make cafe curtains with sheets or pillow cases because half the hemming is already done. I've also been wanting to try out small quilt projects, like pot holders and ornaments.
Marj, my sister is only two years younger than me, and she doesn't remember a thing about it. It was a world class shocker at the time. Thirty years, he got away with it. One of the things I didn't know was that he had been assigned to the Washington, DC, MI6 ops for a few years. He was so good he was able to get lots of info from our guys as well as his British buddies. And, buddies they were. He wasn't found out until the younger operatives started smelling a rat. It still took years to nail him. His buddies on both sides of the pond refused to believe he was involved in spying for the Russians. What a supreme con man this guy was.
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I still am unable to get to the next discussion page after reading the last message on this page. I guess that if someone posts another message, the next page will automatically appear?
Marj
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I see that yesterday Simon & Shuster released David McCullough's new book, The Wright Brothers. Anybody going to read it? It looks like our library system only had two hardcopies (both on order) and one CD. All have a waiting list.
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I have Mccullough's The Wright Brothers on my TBR list. It does look interesting.
Marj
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Reading a book "Why Did the Chicken Cross the World" by Andrew Lawler, a history of the relationship between men and chickens. Doubt I'll finish it but it's kind of interesting. He's trying to trace the history of humans domesticating chickens from a wild fowl in Asia, and then taking them with them wherever they go (including to the moon). Historical evidence is scrappy (literally: he depends on dating fossil chicken bones found in excavations). They indicate that Polynesians may have explored South America centuries before Europeans did.
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Just started Timothy Egan's The Big Burn: Teddy Roosevelt & the Fire That Saved America.
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what fire is that?
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Wildfire in the Northwest in 1910. Here are some links about it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/burn/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910
I didn't know PBS had a program about it on The American Experience. I'll have to watch it later today.
The fire happened when the Forest Service was new and very controversial with those who had mining and timbering interests in the forefront of those trying to get it dismantled.
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Oh, yes, I think I saw part of that PBS program.
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As I understand the fire was so monstrously big there was no way any human at the time could stop it or even contain it and as a result of that fire setting aside large swaths of land was offered as a solution - thus the beginning of the National Park system.
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This morning I read a synopsis of several reviews to Tom Holland's book, In the Shadow of the Sword: The Battle for Global Empire and the End of the Ancient World. I don't think I've ever run across such a difference of opinion among reviewers over one book. Some thought it played up to Islamophobia while others didn't. Some applauded his attempt to trace back to the beginning of the "Islamic myths" surrounding the origins of the religion. Others derided his book as revisionist, inaccurate, unreliable. I wonder if this is the same book as In the Shadow of the Sword: The Birth of Islam and the Rise of the Global Arab Empire? I can't find a book under the first title. At any rate, I am not tempted to read it.
I've read Mr. Holland's, Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic (which seemed a bit hard to read (dry maybe?).
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Some of you may be interested in a project I'm facilitating today at our library. I came across a book titled Elderwriters: Celebrate Your Life! By Sue Borocas. She's a retired high school math teacher who started this idea at the library in Rochester, NY. The sub-title is "A guide for creating your own personal legacy document." I prefer to use the word "project" rather then "document". Document sounds like you're writing a memoir, which this isn't.
The point is to gather a collection of original and/or otherwise authored writings (opinions, sayings, poems, etc) and objects that reflect your thoughts and feelings about what life has meant to you. It is a gift to give your family, friends, future generations and yourself. The first exercise is to list 20-25 of your favorite things.
Of course, for me, the fun part will be the discussion of the ideas that people write about.
I mentioned this here before, but today is the first day of the group meeting.
The book is available from Amazon for $13 or less.
Jean
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That sounds like a fantastic idea!
just finished "The Vatican Pimpernel" by Brian Fleming. not well written, but the content is fascinating. it's about monsignor Hugh O'Flannery, a Vatican priest who during WWII aided over 6000 people escape; first escapees from POW camps, later Jews and others trying to escape the Nazi's. he's called the Vatican Scarlet Pimpernel because he used to travel around Rome in various disguises, meeting and helping escapees.
At first he worked alone. but a lot of the people he helped stayed to help him, and by the end of the war, he had a whole network with 22 safe houses, a delivery system for food and supplies, doctors for the wounded, people who created false papers, etc. He was safe as long as he stayed in the Vatican (the Italians and Nazis respected the territorial sovereignty of it) but he would still creep around Rome in disguise. At the end, the talian police were on to him, and they would park just outside of the boundaries and watch him while he preyed outside. They tried all kind of tricks to lure him out, but didn't succeed.
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Read another good book (am I the only one reading non-fiction?) "The Barefoot Lawyer" by Chen Guangcheng. It's by a blind Chinese man who used his knowledge of the law to fight for justice in modern China. He was persecuted, beaten, jailed, finally put under an abusive house arrest. The story of how he escaped, blind and alone, is spine-curdling.
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I've heard of this story - sounds like a book we need to read...especially today when fear messages is all we hear - to be reminded of our inner strength in more difficult conditions than most of us will ever experience. Although I am thinking if some of those unjustly imprisoned in the US started to escape I doubt we would be reading a book heralding their courage and bravery.
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am I the only one reading non-fiction?)
Nope, but my non-fiction reading lately has been slow/spotty. I took back to the library unfinished, The Big Burn. It was interesting up to a point; a little disappointing in that, although the first chapter started out with the fire, it digressed into chapters of biographical material about TR, John Muir, and Gifford Pinchot. I believe it got back to the fire in the second half of the book, but by then I lost interest.
I am also still very slowing winding my way through two non-fictions books about the Romans and the Roman Empire.
The next book on my library wish list is Flash Boys, although my interest is waning on that subject.
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I knew there. were human rights violations in China, but I was really shocked at the picture he presents: a government of hooligans who do whatever they want because they can. All Guangcheng was doing was introducing law suits to try to get the government to respect the laws that were on the books. It made me realize how important the rule of law is. It seems to be popular now to make fun of the law, and idealize vigilante justice. there is plenty wrong with our legal system -- it's mired in red tape. But the alternative is horrible.
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Our Wild Days; Creating the Good Life on SeniorLearn
When we look back on
our many fond memories of
enjoying a story
that we discuss here
on Senior Learn,
we realize
it's not so much the story
we remember,
but the feeling
of friendship and security
that it gave us. | (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/9d/37/88/9d37887c858caa5b850dd530550c1b9e.jpg) |
Join us Monday August 10
when we share our memories of books read on Senior Learn
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I'm reading a very interesting book by Bill O'Reilly: KILLING PATTON. O'Reilly thinks that the auto accident which killed Patton was not an accident. But that's not the reason I find the book so interesting. It's because I'm learning some things about World War 2 that I did not know. One of them is that FDR (Franklin Roosevelt) along with his helper "Wild Bill" William Donovan helped Stalin take over Eastern European countries like Poland and Hungary. FDR considered Stalin a friend and ally and had no interest in those countries that Stalin wanted. I'd never heard of Donovan, and I thought I'd heard of most of Roosevelt's cronies. But now I want to read more about this man who started the OSS and CIA and did Roosevelt's "dirty work."
It was fascinating to read of Patton's speech to his soldiers, telling them not to be afraid to die (HA!) and then to read the battle descriptions and think to myself how I would have been able to cope with what those boys had to endure. I'm just getting into the part where Hitler is planning his battle that would be known as the Battle of the Bulge, and want to read more about that. The book is well written and keeps you turning pages.
Marj
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Most of our everyday is filled with meals, laundry, appointments, shopping, work, paying bills, gassing up the car, mowing, weekend cleanup, church, friends, volunteering, caring for partner/family, the cat or dog - some of these activities are written in our planners but most are the ordinary responsibilities we mentally track as, the week's "to do".
Now the big question - Does anyone ever really schedule in their appointment calendar a set time to read, or write and post a chapter analysis, or does anyone schedule on a chalk board time for a Senior Learn discussion, or set an appointment for research time to find more background for the current story?
Have you ever chucked it all and read for an entire afternoon or even a day? Have you ever sat down immediately to read a new book delivered or picked up from the library? Have you, as I have, binged for a day or more, reading more than one book, eating leftovers or heating up a bowl of soup.
“Voila!” - Our "Wild Days!"
Our "Wild Days" are all the unscheduled times we read and post on SeniorLearn and the times we binge read. All the time we do not schedule in our appointment book or even our mental 'to do' track. It's our Wheee time or me time??!!?? Our "Wild Days!"
(http://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2010/2/2/1265125740532/illustration-by-inga-moor-001.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=f065176052b9065110f6813ad625a92e)
We're excited about reading your stories that will capture and celebrate our golden "Wild Days" Starting on August 10 bring your ukulele, banjo, guitar, harmonica or just hum through an old tooth comb and tissue and sing outloud around our fire of memories in the discussion Our Wild Days; Creating the Good Life on SeniorLearn.
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I'm reading a fascinating book: THE LONGEST DAY by Cornelius Ryan. Excellent writing about World War II. Somehow I missed the movie, but am now going to have to watch it. The book (and I guess also the movie) tells the story about D-Day from both the Allied and the German sides.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
Oh, that's a good movie! One of only a few war movies that i liked and will watch again.
Jean
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Marjifay, when you watch the movie, pay close attention to the actors. Many went on to become famous as they got older (and they are extremely young in this movie). And parts of various nationalities were played by actors of the same nationality. It's excellent!
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Thanks for the info, MaryZ, on the movie The Longest Day. That's one thing I like about watching the ME channel programs like the old Gunsmoke and Bonanza programs; you see a lot of well known actors playing bit parts when they were very young and not yet well known.
Marj
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Good read and good movie. "A Bridge Too Far" is another favorite of mine; book and movie.
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Hi, DVCONLEE. I like your signature!
Read an interesting book, "Secrets from the Eating Lab" by a scientist who studies people's eating habits. As a science nerd, I was fascinated by the way they designed their experiments. If you tell people you're studying their eating, they become self conscious and change what they do, so you have to pretend you're studying something else, and sneak the food into it. Sometimes it goes hilariously wrong.
Most interesting: Much of what we believe about weight and health only applies o grossly overweight people. And the physiological reasons why diets don't work. In particular: the reason we always gain back the weight we lose has nothing to do with willpower. it's our physiology rebelling against what we have been doing.
She has alternate suggestions.
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Hi Joank,
I have read much about nutrition and it seems, to me, that the science would dictate that if you use more than you take in weight goes down. How you go about accomplishing that determines how healthy you are.
I have just signed up for my first class; how quickly do they go through the Unit 1 book?
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Hi dvconlee - welcome - I wonder how much our emotional life has to do with not only choice but our ability to process food - and then the other - food today has so many changes to its structure - not just the additions to preserve longer on the shelf prepared foods but the food as it grows in the ground and develops on the hoof and how does all that change in the foodline affect our ability to process food.
I know I stopped eating all processed food except for bread, crackers and condiments like mayo and ketsup - amazing in less then 3 months with doing nothing else - just cooking all my own food I lost 20 pounds.
I attempt to buy local grass fed beef and chickens from the farmers market and whole foods but now I understand even cheese, unless imported is made with added preservatives and the milk comes from cows that are fed with penicillin.
I guess I am more alarmed over the change to our food that benefits lack of spoilage during long distant shipping and shelf life and protect the rancher and farmer with more production with less loss to insects and animal disease without, an honest study of how humans are processing this that I think contributes to our overweight nation. Other nations that do not allow this altering of food do not seem to struggle with an overweight population - yes, there are those who are overweight but not in the shear numbers that are typical of the average American.
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DVCONLEE: I took the Latin class 10 years ago, so don't remember - they're probably not even using the same book. Ginny will tell you if you ask -- it may depend on the class though.
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Wheee we are open - Jane did it... our pre-discussion For Love of Lakes is open and ready AND the link is in the heading for the intro to the book along with the link to the book that is about 3/4ths of the book that is available to us from Amazon - here is the link to the discussion ... http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=4803.0
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And I shall put in a word to wise for DEAD WAKE: the Last Crossing of the Lusitania by Erik Larson which we will begin discussing October 1st. Copies of the book are very popular and libraries have many holds on them. As Larson states "I discovered that buried in the muddled details of the affair was something simple and satisfying: a very good story." You'll make the same discovery when you join us October 1. . Don't delay, request today!
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Reading a great autobiography: "West with the Night" by beryl Markham. She was a woman aviator who was the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic from West to East. Haven't gotten to that yet. So far she's talking about her life as an African bush pilot, and her childhood in Africa. I'm still with her, flying alone at night in 1935 in this tiny plane bringing oxygen to a dying man in the middle of nowhere.
It's a gripping book. From the first, I felt it is too good: I suspect the "facts" have been arranged to make good stories. I see some grounds for my suspicions, as it's thought it was ghost written by one of her husbands, a professional writer. Why not? movie stars do it as a matter of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_Markham
Apparently there's being a movie made, but it centers on her affairs. Who cares! I'd have affairs too, if I lived that life. I want to know about the flying!!! (You can see I've become a Beryl Markham fan).
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Now reading The Flash Boys by Michael Lewis. It's about computerized high-frequency trading and how a small group of Wall Street guys discovered that the US stock market was rigged to the advantage of insiders to the detriment of ordinary investors.
Joan, West with the Night has been in and out of my sights for quite some time. I want to read it, but keep forgetting to look for a copy. I'm going to go see if the Philadelphia Free Library has an ebook of it now.
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FRY: it's free on kindle unlimited.
Hope I didn't offend anyone when I said I'd have an affair if I lived her life. It's not even true: I'm a one man woman and I married him.
But I can just see Hollywood making a soppy love story about this woman's life, when that's not her story at all. She found things that she loved to do and lived them: hunting with the Masai as a child, training racehorses (and winning races) at 18. She was 17 when she saw her first airplane and fell in love with it.
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What a lucky day at the college book sale yesterday. It's a fall ritual around here. Naturally I'm looking for books recommended here on SeniorLearn. And this time around, naturally, I was looking for West with the Night. I've read so many raves about it, along with yours, Joan, that I felt I had to read it. Hunting, horseracing, flying, having affairs, and envied by Ernest Hemingway for her great writing style! And there it was. It does read well.
And then I found a gloriously illustrated, annotated Three Men In A Boat, proposed for discussion here a while ago. It lost out to Alice In Wonderland I believe. Wonderful English humour.
And what a nice surprise to find Lantern On The Levee, the recollections of a southern planter's son. I recently read a biography of the author's nephew, Walker Percy, who found it helpful in sorting out his life. Has anyone read it?
To make it a dandy quartet there was Erik Larson's Dead Wake. So now I gotta make a reservation on the Lusitania. With lots of good reading.
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JONATHAN: what a haul! Haven't read "Lanterns on the Levee", but the other three are winners!
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SHIP AHOY!
The Lusitania is sailing again on Thursday! Come and board early, even if you haven't gotten your book yet. Meet the irascible captain who couldn't save her (should he have?), the men and women who took their life problems (and priceless manuscripts) aboard, the happiest submarine captain and crew (was he too ruthless? too kind?), the love struck President, and the British naval officer who lured the submarine to its position, and didn't tell the Lusitania (was it on purpose?)
And share your experiences with ships (sunken and floating), submarines, naval warfare, and the decade before the roaring twenties.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=4811.0
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Oh good, Jonathan, I'm glad you'll be with us in Dead Wake.
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A few remarks on _West with the Night_:
--The aviatrix portrayed by Susannah Harker in the miniseries "Heat of the Sun" is based on Beryl Markham.
--The character of Felicity in the film "Out of Africa" is also based on Markham.
I hope it is permissible to mention here my new collection _In Their Own Words: American Women in World War I_, which seeks to highlight the neglected contributions of US women to the war via their first-person accounts. Roles covered range from doctor, nurse, and relief worker to dietitian, motor driver, fingerprint expert, librarian, pilot, reporter, singer, stenographer, and switchboard operator.
More info:
http://elizabethfoxwell.com/WWI_Anthology.html
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That looks really interesting Elizabeth. I wish I had had it to use when I was teaching USHist 102. :)
Jean
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I'm hoping the collection will be useful to instructors, particularly with the centenary of the U.S. entry into the war coming up in April 2017.
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The Lusitania sets sail tomorrow. I'm getting excited!
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Just finished.. "The Search for Anne Perry" by Joanne Drayton. Anne is a well known author, and the book is really strange. Anne is really a woman who as a teen killed the mother of the second teen. The two were caught and went to prison in New Zealand. They had their names changed and disappeared.. She was outed by a movie some time ago. The book is supposed to be a biography.Instead it has the plots of every single book she wrote and a few that were weird beyond anything. She be came a devout mormon and of course the author downplays what she did as a teen ( they only served five years for Murder, 1st degree at that because they were mid teeDisappointment.
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I am reading a really interesting book, Profiles of Female Genius, written by Gene Landrum. He talks about "thirteen creative women who changed the world." Lillian Vernon, Ophra Winfrey, Golda Meir, Jane Fonda, Estee Lauder, Madonna, Ayn Rand, Gloria Steinam, Margaret Thatcher, Mary Kay Ash, Liz Claiborne, Maria Callas, Linda Wachner (first woman owner of a Fortune 500 company, Warnaco [Warner and Olga lingerie, Fruit of the Loom, Valintino, Hathaway shirts, etc]).
He choose women who created their own success and had not inherited their position; had staying power of at least 10 yrs of influence; their success or achievement had international influence; their achievement must have occurred in the last 40 yrs, (the book was published in 1994). I would like to see who he would choose in 2015!
They were mostly first born or their FATHER's FAVORITE; father often self-employed and a mentor; had FEMALE mentors; READ books early in childhood, created imagination; goal-oriented workaholics; wanted to win; self-sufficient; charismatic, persuaive personality; intuitive "gut" decision-makers; high energy.
I find all of that very interesting. What a good model for a curriculum for teaching teenage girls, and boys.
Jean
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STEPH: disappointing. You know, but others may not that Anne Perry became a bestselling mystery story writer. (I just finished her latest book) who continues to write 2-4 books a year, even though she is 79.
She was not identified as the convicted killer she was until well into her career. (She was only 17 when convicted. After she served her sentence, she changed her name and moved from Australia to Scotland). I had already read a number of her books and I reread some to see if knowing the author was a murderess changed my opinion of them. It didn't.
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I am a friend of Anne Perry and will confine myself to two points about the case: (1) in their NZ trial the girls had few of the protections that exist in the US legal system (for example, they were not permitted to testify in their own defense); and (2) Anne was on medication at the time that has since been proven to alter judgment.
Consistent themes in her work are the power of redemption and the championing of the marginalized and vulnerable.
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I am sure she is a nice devoted woman, but the book was silly. You certainly do not need explanations for every single book and how it proves that she is sorry. I am sure she is. I am not sure the book is really on track for a variety of reasons..She was in New Zealand.. and athat was the law there.. not the U.S. She is and never has been a US citizen, so was tried by the laws of her country. It does not say in the book that she was on medications at the time of the murder. Possibly she was , but it does not say it. She is very successful and I am glad she is doing well. I note that the two girls have never met since they left prison.. and were separated at that time. I was disappointed in the gaps in coverage. She did go first to the U.S., and then England and finally Scotland.. No idea why.
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EMFOXWELL: I am certainly willing to give anyone who has made a mistake and served their punishment (especially one so young) a chance to redeem themselves. She served the punishment that was asked of her: it's not her fault if some feel it was too light. And indeed, her books are full of the horror of violence and what it does to everyone involved.
I do hope that she is finding redemption and peace in what has proved to be a long and fruitful life. And I wish the same for the other girl (woman) involved.
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Just published.
Rosemary: The Hidden Kennedy Daughter – by Kate Clifford Larson
Sad story. http://www.people.com/article/rosemary-kennedy-siblings-didnt-see-her-after-lobotomy
I'm going to see if my library has ordered it.
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Can't wait for my library to get "Rosemary". Sounds like a wonderfully interesting book.
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I'll look for it too. It interests me to see how people coped with handicapped children in less tolerant times. Did you know that Charles de Gaulle had a daughter with Down's Syndrome? He was very loving with her, and is buried beside her, at his request.
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I remember reading about Rosemary and the lobotomy. As I remember it was Joe, the father, who arranged it without telling his wife and daughters; he thought she was an embarrassment to the family. The daughters visited her in the home in which she was placed years after - was it in Wisconsin? Anyway, when you read it, let us know more about it. I wonder if she is still living; wasn't she the oldest Kennedy chld? I could look it all on the tube couldn't I?
I just finished reading David Brinkley's memoir; it was an older book in our library, a large print one that I am favoring these days. Recalling all those years, radio (yes, I remember it) and early television and the news programs, the Kennedy, Johnson years. He thought Clinton a terribly boring man. A good book.
I have a story to tell about the first TV I ever watched. I had planned a party for friends at my boyfriends home as he had a big house and a mother who was a good cook. She promised to bake a ham and such after the party. So I planned a few funny games and thought perhaps listening to records, dancing maybe, and just being together; well, lo and behold, unbeknown to me she had just purchased a TV and that was the evening. None of us had ever seen it except in store windows and we sat and watched it all evening.
It was not what I planned and I disliked it immensely it!
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In some ways, the Internet is like early TV, different, of course, but in ways similar. I just watched Dean Martin's roasts on Youtube, looking up Peter Falk. I was trying to remember the movie in which he zig- zags across the field yelling "Serpentine." I remember it as about the only movie in which I laughed out loud.
Do you know, I don 't know how to play DVD's on my TV and neither does my daughter. I don't need them with all the cable networks and I don't watch TV that much, but I would like to watch Peter Falk again. It involves two remotes and pushing the right buttons and I know I will foul it up and have to call Time Warner to get my TV back.
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The InLaws! I loved that movie, too. You need a DVD player to watch DVD's.
When I rent a movie from Netflix who has them all, I like to use my portable DVD player. It's got a big screen, 10 or 12 inches, and it looks HUGE to me in my lap and I enjoy watching stuff on it, there's nothing to connect to the TV, you just watch whatever you put in it. I can't recall the make of it but it's the biggest one I've seen, as big as a laptop.
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GINNY - I have a DVD player sitting in the cabinet below the cable box, it's just a matter of learning how to operate the two remotes.
A portable DVD player sounds just the thing no TV involved. I can ask Santa Claus to bring me one - what is the brand name of the one you have? I suppose you can buy one at Best Buy.
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I remember when I was a child, my friend's family got the first TV on the block. Now, instead of running around playing, we would sit in front of the TV for hours, waiting for a show (there were only a few shows a day).
A special was coming on in the evening, and the family invited all their friends to watch it. Opposite the TV was a window that looked out onto a neighbor's window, and they left the curtains open. The neighbor invited all their friends to watch through the window.
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Ella, I love mine, it's the best one I've ever had and it's the 4th, we're hard on them for some reason.
It's a Sylvania SDVD1332 13.3-Inch Swivel Screen Portable DVD Player with USB/SD Card Reader (I looked it up).
Best Buy and Amazon both have it. Best Buy tends to have only the tiny ones with the 7 inch screens in the stores, so I ordered mine from Amazon but I note Best Buy does say free shipping on it, on the website but Amazon does that anyway, with Prime. Best Buy is a higher price. I really like it. You can take your movie with you anywhere in the house.
The screen swivels backwards if you want it to do that, I don't. There's a remote (?) control I've never used and earphones, also unused, but I sure like seeing the screen that big in my lap. All I do is put the DVD in and enjoy: it plays anywhere.
It truly has a huge screen. I've enjoyed this one. A lot. The controls are easy to work too.
Joan K, we also had the first TV on the street in PA and everybody in the neighborhood would come in too. Such a small screen and everybody gathered around. I remember those old TV's. I remember shows like I Remember Mama and Kukla Fran and Olli, and Howdy Doody. Gosh how innocent we seem now. Of course I WAS a child.
There was also a program called Winky Dink and You. You were to get these magic kits (sort of like saran wrap) and the magic markers and put up the paper and draw on the screen/ paper pasted to the TV to solve the mystery. We probably irradiated ourselves half way into oblivion but it sure was fun.
There was a program called Life With Riley with William Bendix. My father hated it, just hated it and would not allow it to be on. I can't recall why. hahaha
Talking about old media, I have SIRIUS in the car and I love their old radio programs channel. The other day I was listening to The Whistler whatever that was and the moderator at the end was listing the actors one of whom was Ira Grossel . Then he said stay tuned for Ira Grossel..and Eve Arden....you may know Ira Grossel as Jeff Chandler! It's just fascinating.
I love those old radio shows. These are sponsored by something called Radio Spirits. who have a website with all the old radio shows for sale.
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I remember every one of those you mentioned, Ginny, except for Mama. Winky Dink was a lot of fun.
We also watched Pinky Lee and Molly Bee, Ed Sullivan (of course), Arthur Murray's Dance Party, and Walter Cronkite's You Are There series. And then there was My Little Margie, Roy Rogers, and so on. Radio shows, my favorite was The Shadow. I also listened to Fibber Magee and Molly, The Whistler, Ellery Queen, The Lone Ranger, The Green Hornet, and a radio playhouse or theater program, the name of which I cannot remember. We could go on and on with a list, couldn't we. I don't think I listened to radio regularly back then.
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"The Shadow" came on just at that creepy time of early evening, when there are shadows!
Saturday, a friend (age 73) asked me "Did you watch "The Mickey Mouse Club" when you were a kid?" I said "I predate TV." These youngsters!
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:) ;) ::)
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"that creepy time of early evening" with The Shadow...I remember it so well, Joan. The words still echo in my head: "The Shadow knows what evil lurks in the the dark corners of our souls." I still feel the thrilling shudder.
Not as exciting, but just as memorable was making the Saturday rounds with the 'breadman' and his horse and wagon. And being treated to some of his tastier confections. Just for running a loaf or two to someone's door. And telling the customer of the other fine things on the wagon. It never ceased to amaze me that the horse knew at which doors to stop.
At 85 I decided to go no further. I've turned around and am throwing each year OFF like an outworn garment. I had heard that a second childhood awaits us down the road. I choose to recapture the first. It was just too much fun. To help things along, I've started reading ghost stories, and do I have a couple to reccomend. Lord Halifax's Ghost Book, and Eileen Sonin's More Canadian Ghosts. Both awfully convincing. Fiction turns into nonfiction. Best read at night. What a fright. Leave the light...ON!!!
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
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Haha well if we can really turn backwards how about going really back - found this and I am enchanted wanting to use some of these words...
Other old English terms, however, still have perfectly valid meanings in our modern world and really need to be brought back, if only for the pleasure of saying them. Here are 24 words and slang terms from old and middle English (or thereabouts) that are fun to say, still useful, and should never have left us in the first place.
I love it - I'm bedward - and to laugh with the word Billingsgate will be my new word button rather than steeling myself to the language used by so many even on TV. In the morning my hair can easily be described as elflock and how many times the phone has been my expergefactor, especially after I'm bedward for a nap. And grobbling around in my purse that is filled with a jargogle of things I never use that are actually trumpery.
1. Bedward
Exactly as it sounds, bedward means heading for bed. Who doesn’t like heading bedward after a hard day?
2. Billingsgate
This one is a sneaky word; it sounds so very proper and yet it refers to abusive language and curse words.
3. Brabble
Do you ever brabble? To brabble is to argue loudly about matters of no importance.
4. Crapulous
A most appropriate sounding word for the condition of feeling ill as a result of too much eating/drinking.
5. Elflock
Such a sweet word to describe hair that is tangled, as if it has been matted by elves.
6. Erstwhile
This very British sounding word refers to things that are not current, that belong to a former time, rather like the word itself.
7. Expergefactor
Something that wakes you up is an expergefactor. For most of us it’s our alarm clocks, but it could be anything from a chirping bird to a noisy neighbor.
8. Fudgel
Fudgel is the act of giving the impression you are working, when really you are doing nothing.
9. Groke
This means to stare intently at someone who is eating, in the hope that they will give you some. Watch any dog for a demonstration.
10. Grubble
Grubble might sound like the name of a character from a fantasy novel but it does in fact mean to feel or grope around for something that you can’t see.
11. Hugger-mugger
What a fun way to describe secretive, or covert behavior.
12. Hum durgeon
An imaginary illness. Sounds more like an imaginary word. Have you ever suffered from hum durgeon?
13. Jargogle
This is a perfect word that should never have left our vocabulary, it means to confuse or jumble.
14. Lanspresado
It sounds like the name of a sparkling wine, but no, it means a person who arrives somewhere, having conveniently forgotten their wallet, or having some other complicated story to explain why they don’t have money with them.
15. Mumpsimus
Mumpsimums is an incorrect view on something that a person refuses to let go of.
16. Quagswag
To shake something backwards and forwards is to quagswag, who knew?
17. Rawgabbit
We all know a few rawgabbits. A rawgabbit is a person who likes to gossip confidentially about matters that they know nothing about.
18. Snollygoster
I think we can all agree this is a fantastic sounding word. It means a person who has intelligence but no principles; a dangerous combination. Watch out for the snollygosters, they live amongst us.
19. Snottor
This old english term has the unlikely meaning of “wise.” Really?
20. Trumpery
Things that look good but are basically worthless. I said THINGS, not people.
21. Uhtceare
This means lying awake worrying before dawn. We all do this, we just didn’t know there was a word for it. Say it now, like this: oot-key-are-a.
22. Ultracrepidarian
Similar to the rawgabbit, this person takes every opportunity to share their opinion about things they know nothing about. Social media is the perfect outlet for these people.
23. Zwodder
Being in a drowsy, fuzzy state, after a big night out perhaps?
24. Cockalorum
A small man with a big opinion of himself.
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Barb, I know three of those words. Also, I thought Billingsgate was a place name, snotter indicated a pain in the butt who thought way too much of himself, and one I've run across but didn't precisely know what it meant.
#20 LOL
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Fry... I thought Billingsgate was a prison
looked it up and found --- Billingsgate is one of the 25 Wards of the City of London. Its name derives from being the City's original water gate, and this small City Ward is situated on the north bank of the River Thames between London Bridge and Tower Bridge in the south-east of the Square Mile.
Billingsgate, old gate and fish market, London, England. First Known Use: 1652
However the dictionary still lists Billingsgate as abusive language - vehemently expressed condemnation or disapproval - implies practiced fluency and variety of profane or obscene abuse as in, directing a stream of billingsgate at the cabdriver.
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For ghost story fans, some possibilities include:
-- _The Seen and the Unseen_, a collection of tales by Richard Marsh (best known for _The Beetle_): http://www.valancourtbooks.com/the-seen-and-the-unseen-1900.html
-- M. R. James. There are a few collections of his work published by Wildside Press.
There's also an M. R. James podcast:
http://www.mrjamespodcast.com/
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I love it: I want to use them all!
Please let us know where you got that list.
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Billingsgate was the kind of language used by the fishmongers at the Billingsgate fish market--crude and abusive.
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ah so... PatH - thanks - makes sense - maybe that says it all - that so many today are doing nothing more than selling fish stories using the appropriate language ;) ::)
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Used "bedward" to my grandchildren. they loved it. If my memory were only better, I could have snuck a couple more words in.
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read an interesting non-fiction book: "The Spy's Son" by Bryan Denson. About a high-ranking CIA operative who was selling secrets to the Russians and who, when he was caught and put in jail, trained his young son in spy techniques and had him sell smuggled-out information to the Russians.
I hadn't read a "true-spy story before: from the citations, apparently it's a whole genre of books.
The spying techniques in this one are much simpler than in fiction books. the main interest of the book is how his role as a spy influenced his role as a single father. He said he started as a double agent so he could provide for his children, and got his son involved so he could continue to provide for them in prison. (Instead, he nearly ruined his son's life. And the amounts of money earned were not enough to really provide) He was a very religious man, and encouraged his son with verses from the bible. The mixed-up sense of values involved, I found fascinating.
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Very interesting JoanK. My last true spy book was A Spy Among Friends which is about Kim Philby (remember him?) and the community of spies/friends that allowed him to operate for so long.
After a lengthy synopsis this WSJ review gives some criticism that is worth noting if you have read or will read the book. http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-a-spy-among-friends-by-ben-macintyre-1407533655
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After Philby defected and there was all that fuss, I found that he had lived a few blocks away from where I lived. As far as I know, I never saw him.
Apparently, there were a whole lot of other double agents (moles), like Philby, on both sides. Apparently, both we and the Russians treated our moles better than the regular agents. And the same set of values that make good spies, make them ready to betray their fellow agents.
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That WSJ link would only give me the first paragraph of the review.
I've read another good book by Ben Macintyre. In 1943 British Intelligence pulled off a huge trick of misdirection, which persuaded the Germans that the coming invasion of Europe was going to be in Greece, when it was actually Sicily.
The first, The Man Who Never Was, by Ewen Montagu, came out in 1950. Montagu describes how he and his fellows dressed a body as a courier, with a briefcase chained to his wrist containing a faked description of the invasion. They sneaked the body close to a shore where bodies from downed planes often washed up, and it was found, and the documents believed.
Montagu's account is short and lighthearted, told from one man's point of view, with much left out because it was still classified. It's a good read.
In 2010, Macintyre wrote Operatiom Mincemeat, using much no longer classified information, describing all the players, filling in the gaps, and fitting everything into the bigger strategic picture. It's a detailed, complex picture, and it's fascinating, especially if you've already read the first book.
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Saw the movie The Man Who Never Was on Netflix. I enjoyed it.
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Thanks for recommending The Man Who Never Was, FlaJean. I put it on my Netflix queue. Sounds interesting and gets a very good rating at IMDB.
And also thanks, Joan K, for your recommendation of A Spy's Son. I put it on hold at my library.
Marj
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My thanks, too, to everyone posting with 'reading' comments and recommendations. How often my reaction has been to rush out and get the book. So now I'm swamped by books, with no place to put them.
I envy you, Marj. I wish I could still anticipate reading David McCullough's TRUMAN. You will like it. I think I'll reread it. But first, since this is a presidential campaign year, I'm going to read A Magnificent Catastrophe, about the tumultuous election of 1800, by Edward Larson. What a cast! Aaron Burr, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Alexander Hamilton. I'll keep you posted.
Meanwhile, I can heartily recommend a book I just picked up by chance. In Search of Sir Thomas Browne, The Life and Afterlife of the Seventeenth Century's Most Inquiring Mind, by Hugh Aldersey-Williams. Browne wrote some great stuff, scientific and philosophical, in great style. Only Shakespeare coined more new English words.
And then, well along in the book, a quote from Rose Macaulay, an author I just got to know recently by reading her Towers of Trebizond. There were several comments in Library about her puzzling fixation on the English Anglican Church in her book. Now I find her quoted in the H A-W book, as saying that Browne in one of his books made 'in the most exquisite and splendid prose of the century, the best and most agreeable confession of the Anglican religion ever, before or since, published.'
Knowing that added a little more interest to what Macaulay was trying to do in her book.
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Another suggestion, Jonathan. :)
I have just stated to read a pulitzer-prize winning bio of Harriet Beecher Stowe, who is one of the subjects of my women's history series at the library in March. The author is Joan Hedrick who is a wonderful writer. I'm just 30 pages in, but the story of Harriet's childhood is delightful.......well, if you aren't one of Lyman Beecher's (H's father) three wives! His first wife, Roxana is smart and curious, the perfectly submissive preacher's wife, never competing with him in anyway. She is also fertile and had 8 children in 16 yrs, as was common in the early 19th century. She also died at age 41 of consumption when Harriet was 5 yrs old.
But the whole Beecher and Foote (Roxana's family) families are interesting. Lyman was a blinders-on Congrgationalist minister who believed and preached to his congregations and to his children that if they weren't "born again" they were damned to hell, a hell that he described in all its horribleness. Surprisingly, five of his children didn't seem convinced and were not converted until close to, or well into adulthood, frustrating L to no end. They were well-schooled in dinner table debate, so they debated him on that subject too.
Harriet had good role models in her Mother, two aunts, one from each side of her parents families. lots of readers, lots of those suspicious novels that were just becoming popular in the states, and an uncle who owned a ship and sailed all over the world bringing back wonderful stories about smart, inventive, educated peoples of many other religions and cultures, giving the B children a sense that maybe Father wasn't right about everything.
It's informative and sometimes funny and well-documented - there are 100 pages of footnotes! I'm looking forward to continuing reading her story.
Jean
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I am in the middle of a book by Aaron J. Klein-- Striking Back. Am finding it hard to put down. All about the massacre of the Israeli Olympic athletes by the Islamic Black September group in Munich, Germany in 1972. Now I want to read a biography of Golda Meir and watch the film Munich. And read a book mentioned on the book cover -- Arab and Jew by David K. Shipler which won a Pulitzer.
Marj
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Golda Meir was a fascinating person. I never met her when I lived in Israel. I did meet Ben Gurion, briefly, when he was old and crabby.
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Joan - I thought Ben Gurion was always old and crabby. ;D :P ;)
I'm just starting to read Rachel Carson's Silent Spring for my library book group, and she will be one of the "women scientists" in my women's history series. She is a beautiful writer and a fascinating woman.
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Oh good, Mabel. I read Silent Spring eons ago. It is a wonderful book. I also read, and enjoyed, The Edge of the Sea.
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Have not read "Silent Spring"! Will see if I can get it on my iPhone.
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Recently I read a biography of Mary McGrory: The First Queen of Journalism by John Norris. Do you remember her columns? She was syndicated across the country, back in the day we had two or more newspapers daily.. What wit and humor she had! One of the first women journalists she pointed the way for others. She loved the political world and met many of our presidents at Washington parties and affairs. What memories the book brought back.
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The name doesn't ring a bell, Ella. I'll have to look her up.
While waiting for my next book to arrive from the library, I finally started The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo by Tom Reiss. I've had in on my Kindle for about a year now. Seeing as this month is Black History Month, it seems a good time to start it. It is about General Alex Dumas who was Alexander Dumas, Pere's father.
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The name Mary McGory does sound familiar, though I don't think I read her.
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If you have time look and listen:
http://www.npr.org/2015/09/19/441470551/dont-call-her-doll-how-mary-mcgrory-became-the-first-queen-of-journalism
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I just picked up from the library Meet You in Hell by Les Standiford. Now, how can you pass up a title like that? It is about Andrew Carnegie and Henry Clay Frick, their rivalry, and a transformational steel strike. Another book (Last Train to Paradise...) by him about Henry Flagler is up next in my library TBR list.
I am also still reading The Black Count... which I am finding very interesting, especially France's early attitude regarding slavery and blacks.
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Reading Lynn Sherr's book Sally Ride. Since Sherr reported on the space program, she and Ride became friendly and her book is a delightful read about a very interesting, delightful woman.
My son, dgt and I met Sally Ride in 1985. She was the first winner of the Alice Paul Equality Award. Ride had just been in space in 1983, at age 32, she is still the youngest ever astronaut. Sherr, who has been a fan of the Alice Paul Institute, told us that Ride got 1000s of requests to speak in the mid-80s and refused most of them. But AP was one of her heroes, so she came to South Jersey to share dinner and a press conference with us. Because of her presence we got a lot of men to come who heard about AP for the first time and we had an overflow crowd and a lot of tv coverage.
Ride is one of the women scientists i will be talking about in my women's history series at our library. Rachel Carson and Adm Hooper, developer of the COBAL computer language are two others.
I recommend Sherr's book.
Jean
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JEAN: how wonderful to meet Sally Ride. What was she like (I was sorry to hear of her death recently). I hope the book goes into her role in the investigation of the challenger disaster. Apparently, she was the one who was anonymously feeding the physicist Feynman clues to help him avoid cover-ups. Good for her!
I did meet Adm. Hopper (you accidently typed Hooper) when I was a programmer in the early days of computers. she was a formidable woman: everyone, men and women, were afraid of her. I was talking about that with my daughter the other day: one of the biggest differences I notice between professional women in "men's" professions today and the few I knew back in the fifties is that they feel free to be both serious professionals and to enjoy feminine things. In my day, that was often not the case.
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Read an interesting book, "The Soul of an Octopus" by Sy Montgomery. he describes her experiences playing with the octopuses (the correct plural, she tells us) in the Boston Aquarium. Now I'm fascinated by them. They are very intelligent, and have to be given puzzles to solve. If not, they get bored, and spend their time trying to find ways to escape (and often succeeding). they also have different personalities (one of the studies she participates in gives personality tests to wild octopuses. A kind of octopus Myers Briggs).
Light reading, and very engaging.
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I'm reading a very interesting ebook, The Hunting of Hillary by Joe Conason and Gene Lyon, both awarded journalists. You can get it for free from Conason's blog "national memo". I'm amazed that she is still standing and willing to take the arrows that are constantly hurled at her, even those repeated arrows that have already been debunked by congressional committees and objective journalists, altho, by their own admission, there don't seem to be many of those.
She has stood for decades in the midst of the onslaughts and no, I don't believe the cliche "where there's smoke there's fire," for it appears her opposition has frequently created its own smoke machine. I don't think she's perfect, who of us are, but IMO, she has a lot going for her. Why she would want to run for president and have the unscrupulous opposition have another big attack at her, I can't imagine. But it sure would be nice to have a woman president.
Jean
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BLACK MONEY to understand how money from those like the Koch Brothers have impacted our lives.
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Yes, Black Money sounds interesting and the author is a good one.
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Kidsal - I have Dark Money on my TBR list. I'll be interested to hear what you think of it. I suspect it isn't going to be an easy read.
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It was our May read for my book club. Lots of discussion. We are all Democrats so a little biased. But can see so much in current Senate and House proceedings and news concerning many think tanks, etc. Very wealthy deciding the way to influence people and to grow people to their way of governing was to sponsor college/university classes which taught their point of view, create think tanks, etc. Koch brothers sponsor seminars attended by many people of interest -- a very exclusive and very secretive meetings. Of course Senator McConnell on first day of President Obama's Presidency announced the Republicans would do everything to undermine him and they have kept their word!
Both Democrats and Republicans should read this book to discover how many of the very wealthy are influencing you.
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Somehow I can't see the Koch Bros. et al supporting Trump, but they'll probably concentrate their support on Senate and House elections.
The book sounds interesting...and timely.
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Finished reading Isabellaa biography by Kirsten Downey, who also wrote The Woman Behind the New Deal. Serious research, interesting history. Was a little surprised at who some of her contemporaries were. Enjoyed the book very much.
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Is that the Isabella who financed Columbus?
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Yes. But she did so much more.
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I recently watched the 1973 film, A DOLL'S HOUSE, with Anthony Hopkins and Clair Bloom. Very good film, and I got to thinking how on earth Henrik Ibsen, who wrote the play on which the film is based, could have writen such a film in the 1800s regarding a woman's feelings about the way she had been treated by both her father and her husband so that she did not feel she was a real person, only a doll to be played with. So, I read part of Ibsen's biography and it said he was greatly influenced by his mother-in-law who was the leader of the feminist movement in Norway at that time. Now I'd like to read about the history of the feminist movement in the world and how it got started in what had been almost forever a world ruled by men. Anyone have any suggestions on where to begin? I want to know about the movement in the world, not just the United States.
Marj
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold (hhullar5@yahoo.com)
In my last message, I meant to say I wondered how Henrik Ibsen could have written such a play (not such a film).
Marj
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Understood. I'll bet there's lots written about the feminist movement in England. But I'll bet it's harder to find info on other countries.
I had always given Ibsen props for "The Doll House," and never knew about his mother-in-law (or even that there was a feminist movement in Norway. Interesting. How do the times match similar movements in US and England?
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Recommend The Silk Roads by Frankopan. The history we were never taught in school of how the world was influenced by the East as well as the West.
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kidsal - thank you for recommending Peter Frankopan's new book. I looked it up on Amazon, and it has received excellent reviews from some serious critics. I love history, but it seems there haven't been too many serious histories published recently (or maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places). Thanks for recommending it.
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I just bought a wonderful book at Barnes and Noble yesterday called National Geographic Revised Edition CONCISE HISTORY of the WORLD (An illustrated Time Line) by Neil Kagan. It begins Prehistory-3000 B.E.C. And goes up to 2011. I have never been a History reader, but this book had me so excited I spent two hours in their Cafe reading it. I lost track of time.
I recently finished The Invention of Wings by Sue Monk Kidd, about the two Grimke sisters who were among the first women abolitionists. A very good book.
Marj. A Doll's House sounds like a movie I would like. Thanks for mentioning it.
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This may be an interesting book for those of you, like me, like Science: The Glass Universe by Dava Sobel (Viking, Dec.) A women's history, Publisher's Weekly says "...little-known true story of the unexpected and remarkable contributions to astronomy made by a group of women working in the Harvard College Observatory from the late 19th century through the mid-20th..." It will be out in December.
Another science oriented books coming out in October. Time Travel: A History by James Gleick (Pantheon, Oct.). It covers time travel in literature, philosophy and science.
Both of these book look like they are worthy of recommending to my library. We've been culling many of our books in preparation for our move downstairs in the township building. There, we will have direct outside access and will be open on Saturdays. We still haven't got a date yet, but it will be soon.
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This book will be released at the beginning of September. I look forward to reading it or watching the movie to be released in January 2017.
Hidden Figures: The American Dream and the Untold Story of the Black Women Mathematicians Who Helped Win the Space Race – September 6, 2016
by Margot Lee Shetterly (Author) http://margotleeshetterly.com/hidden-figures-nasas-african-american-computers/
IMDB info: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4846340/
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Those recommendations all sound good.
Frybabe, you may like Rachel Carson and Her Sisters: Extraordinary Women Who Have Shaped America's Environment by Robert Musil. I used it as a resource this past spring in a women's history presentation at our library.
See "The Library" section on this site for some other women's history books that I'm using in six fall presentations at the library. So much good scholarship on women's history available now.
Jean
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I read two of Carson's books, Silent Spring and one about the Jersey(?) Shore. I don't remember much about that last one except she did talk some about the shore birds. Didn't know or forget she had sisters. Will look into the book.
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The "sisters" are metaphoric. It's about other women scientists who studied and wrote and were activists about environmental problems. Rachel was an only child.
Jean
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I didn't know Carson wrote a book on the jersey Shore. I spent many happy vacations there as a child, and started my love of birds there. HaVE TO GET IT.
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Okay, I had to look it up. Should have done that in the first place, but was being lazy. The book is The Edge of the Sea, which is about the Atlantic coastline. Why I thought it was mostly about the Jersey Shore, I don't know. I don't remember it covering the coastline of the southern states, but it must have; there is a chapter about the coral ecosystem. Mostly, I remember the sandy shoreline, the sea birds, the mollusks, and the easy style of writing.
I just checked Wikipedia. It says that the book is the last of a trilogy. It also says that a documentary based on the book won the Oscar for best documentary in 1953. Carson was unhappy with the documentary, consequently, she never again sold film rights to her books.
I read Silent Spring, but do not remember any particulars about it except her crusade against DDT.
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Got a book from the library "The Geography of Bliss." What do places where people are unusually happy have in common? If you hear that I've moved, you'll know why.
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Leave a forwarding address. ;)
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What an interesting find. Project Gutenberg has an English translation of the first four books of chronicles written by Enguerrand de Monstrelet about the 100 Years Wars between the French and English. Monstrelet was not present at Joan do Arc's capture but was present for her interrogation. His chronicles pick up after Jean Froissart died in 1400. Froissart was chronicler for the earlier part of the conflict. Both chronicles are considered the most important chronicles of that feudal period. Unfortunately, Froissart's work is not translated into English.
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Fascinating Frybabe - along with learning - forgot now what I was looking up but in the process learned that 'the' book in English literature, I cannot remember hearing about is, The Cloister and the Hearth by Charles Reade which is the story of the parents of Erasmus and even more I learned that Erasmus pretty much set the curriculum for education that most of us experienced if we attended a school that included Latin in our studies and received what now is called a classical education that pretty much ended after many collage students in the late 60s rebelled wanting a different learning experience.
It was heavy in literature and learning how to think and build a thesis using not only Latin but Geometry as the pattern for building an argument in the sense of explaining a thought process to a conclusion. This was all because of what Erasmus established in the late fifteenth century about 50 years after the end of the 100 years war.
Have not ordered yet The Cloister and the Hearth but it would have take place less than 15 years after the 100 years war. Putting this stuff together is still amazing to me - watched the PBS special about the love story between Henry VIII and Ann and learned that when Ann, as a young woman spent 9 years in the French Court, the French King had Leonardo De Vinci installed in a house nearby as De Vinci created artworks for this grand palace far more grand than anything in England at the time.
And now here you are bringing attention to a set of tapes about the 100 years war which ended exactly 100 year earlier than the death of Ann. Henry and Ann get together only 80 years after the 100 years war so that these two nations were still entwined - What a time in history with all this influencing our lives today about 500 years later...amazing...just amazing.
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Sounds great Barb. I didn't get Latin in school. They only gave that to college prep students; I was a business student. I've heard of Erasmus but no next to nothing about him.
I noted, when reading the info about the chroniclers, that the much maligned Richard III was still just a baby (born in 1452) when the 100 Years War ended. Research on Richard III was the focus of characters in the novel I just finished.
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I read The Cloister and the Hearth when I was too young to understand any of the historical issues, and didn't get the point of the revelation that the son of the main characters turned out to be Erasmus. Maybe I should look at it again.
Frybabe, now that you've finished it, what do you think of The Daughter of Time?
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I enjoyed it very much, PatH. I wonder if her other books are in a similar vein. I did not check up on the sources that the characters used in their investigation. I can barely keep all those in-laws, outlaws, brothers, sisters, cousins and what not as it is. There are entirely too many with the same names, too much marrying of relatives. I tend to confuse who belongs where, even with the charts.
http://www.richardiii.net/ for the latest Richard III Society doings and research. They just had their annual pilgrimage to Bosworth and memorial service for Richard on the 21st. A report will be forthcoming.
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"The Cloister and the Hearth" is available on e-book from my library and I have put it on my Wish List (books I'll read when I get around to them).
The sample I read had a lot of pronouns instead of character names. Hope I can keep them all straight.
Thanks for the suggestion. I love "ancient" British history.
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Tey wrote a handful of more conventional detective stories featuring Inspector Grant. They don't always hang together as detective stories; she had trouble with plots and was more interested in character, but they're pleasant enough reading. My favorite of her books is Brat Farrar, an impersonation/mystery/suspense story with a rich background of horse breeding, training and riding; worth reading for that alone, but the mystery is good too.
The Cloister and the Hearth isn't British history, it's continental Europe.
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Yes, Erasmus was born and lived in Rotterdam - He was the one who established the curriculum for the Universities in Britain, oldest Oxford and then Cambridge as well as, he established the curriculum for the University of Paris, The Sorbonne and in addition some of the universities in Italy and I think the one is Spain, however his association with England and Paris kept his name associated with Britain.
His parents had one of these medieval typical tragic love stories of young lovers not able to marry because her father was against the union. Why the English put such store in the book I have not yet learned but I'm sure I'll read more about that association -
Thanks for the tip Callie - sure enough it is available free on kindle - tra la...
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I got a free download of Cloister and Hearth with pictures from Guttenberg.org and have it on my iPhone. You can put it in iBooks folder and read it anytime. I was also able to enlarge ithe font so it's about 2700 pages long. My interest is involved with way Erasmus set up our way of teaching and that way didn't change until the 1960's. Would like to find just that part that Erasmus accomplished. Amazing story!
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Oh, Annie. I didn't even think to looks for it in Gutenberg. Silly me. I check the site every day.
I'm going to go get it.
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Annie, my memory from my youth is that you won't find out anything much about Erasmus in this book. It's all about his parents.
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I noticed that, PatH. In spite of the reviewers comments about the book being overly long with detailed descriptions and the constant "they just can't get a break" scenes, the book gets high marks from readers.
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Seems to be a constant theme for lovers during the middle ages and on into medieval - in France there was Héloïse and Abelard and of course Romeo and Juliet was separated by death, Sir Lancelot and Queen Guinevere, Tristram and Iseult, Floris and Blancheflur - probably others but those are the ones that come to mind.
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Well, nutz!!! Guess I will just have to search further for something more about Erasmus. Barb, where did you find all that info? Can you leave me a link here? 'Twould be most appreciated!💕😋
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Oh shoot Annie some of it was stuff I remember from High School and then when the big change in education was happening my sisters, both professors and Deans of their respective departments was talking about it - my younger sister was all for the changes while the sister just younger than I am was aghast - of course at the time she was still a nun in a teaching order and so it was easy to chalk up her outrage to loyalty - I did read some of it in an outline of a book on Erasmus but there are so many - oh Annie I wish I could be more help - reading his life story takes awhile but there are several of his bio's available free on Kindle and probably on Gutenberg although I seldom turn to Gutenberg any longer - in fact if I remember Amazon has everything he ever write as a kindle link for I think a dollar 99 -
Wait a minute now that I think of it - I read about the curriculum he established when I was reading about the typical education that Shakespeare would have experienced - now what book would that have been in - hmm - yes they were going on and on about the curriculum as established by Erasmus that started with the teacher asking students to translate from Latin to English as if Latin was the language of the land - and then they learned gammer using Latin as the basic modal and then they read I forgot but 3 ancient writers the only one I do remember was Ovid - they read these writers in Latin and had to translate into English and then they learned Rhetoric and I forgot the details and then logic which was combined with math as a way to present an idea and an argument.
But wait it was not that book that went into how Erasmus established this curriculum as the basis of learning in the major universities - Oh Annie again I cannot remember where I read what specifically - as I say my experience with sisters and reading Shakespeare's experience and being shocked learning about the story of his parents and how the book was still considered a beloved and important story - vaguely I remember where ever I read that it was third on the list of books that the English considered the most important - one thing leads to another so that I was busy putting information into a time frame - Annie I am sorry that is the best I can do - the Shakespeare book I was reading early this summer was something about Shakespeare's use of the arts of language - not exact but close - I've loaned it to my daughter who took it home for Cade (grandson) to read - they live in NC -
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Barb, your memory is better than mine. Thanks for all the info!😋
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I've just finished Traveling With Pomegrantes by Sue Monk Kidd and Ann Kidd, a mother/dgt duo. A sort of memoir of about two years of their lives when both decided they were real writers. Sue went on from her agony over turning 50 and having menopause to writing The Secret Life of Beesand Ann came out of a depression after having been rejected from her first choice for grad school.
I read it as part of a mother/dgt book group, which made the discussion quite interesting.
Being 75 made me shake my head at some of Sue's navel gazing about menopause. She literally says her creative days are over because her womb is dead! Lordy, lordy, lordy. (Spoiler alert) Ann discovers that she didn't really want to end up teaching Greek history and two yrs after her rejection from a grad program to do that she decided that she really did want to enter the "family business" of writing instead.
It did pose some interesting questions in my head and made me think about my life. It was like reading an anthropological case study for me. I decided that I had little understanding of their behaviors because I would never say, do , or make the decisions that they made - kind of like when I sometimes stop in my travel up the cable channels to look for a bit at The Kardashians! :)
Not that either the Kidds or I are wrong at how we handle life, it's just different. Their thinking and behaviors allow them to write stories. I can't do that. I do other things with my behaviors.
If you have traveled to Greece or France, are familiar with Greek myths - Sue writes a lot about Demeter and Persephone, mother and dgt - or are strongly spiritual, or "see" visions of what you should do in nature around you, or from your dreams, you may enjoy this book. ....... Sue determined to write The Secret Life of Bees when a bee landed on her shoulder.
It WAS a very interesting duscussion with 4 40-something young women and 4 70-somthing older women. How none of us older women "feel" what we have perceived 70 to be. How one young woman was very upset that at 40 she may not have more children, she has a set of 4 yr old twins. I encouraged her by telling her my mother was 42 when I was born. :)
Have any of you read it?
Jean
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I saw a couple of good recommendations over on SeniorsandFriends I thought worth mentioning over here in honor of Black History Month.
The Warmth of Other Suns, by Isabel Wilkerson. It is about the black migrations from South to the North between 1915 and 1970. Marilyne says it was made into a PBS documentary but I don't remember it.
MaryC mentioned Chasing the North Star by Robert Morgan. This one is a novel about a runaway slave and his journey from South Carolina to upstate New York. It got some high praises for historical accuracy.
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Hidden Figures has gotten good reviews as well as the recent movie based on the book. It's about the black women mathematicians in the space program. I'm waiting for the book but looking forward to seeing the movie when it comes out for rental. This is part of the space program that I had never heard.
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Oh yes, I forgot about Hidden Figures. That is something I want to read owing to my interest in the space program and such. My sister saw the movie. She liked it.
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This is part of the space program that I had never heard.
Nobody had heard of those women. That's one of the ironies of the book.
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My sister, Mary just saw the movie and hopes we all see it. Very good! Says Mary!
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I really want to see "Hidden Figures." I was also a woman computer programmer in the 60s, so I can really relate. Although of course I didn't have to go through what these Black programmers did: long treks to find a bathroom they were allowed to use, for example.
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My daughter also saw Hidden Figures recently and said it was excellent. I had no idea about these women before this.
Rosemary
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I saw the author of "Hidden Figures" on booktv, she was very interesting. Her female editor knew a female Hollywood producer and sent the book to her. That's how it got to be a movie so quickly- the ole girl network at work!! Everyone I know who has seen it says it is good, including my 14 yr old grandson.
I've just started Big Girls Don't Cry, about Hillary, mostly around the 2008 election. It's fascinating to me how all of the people who have worked with her, or are friends with her, have glowing comments about her. The people who say they don't like her seem to be in the political opposition, or have gendered comments to make about her like "she's aggressive", "she's too ambitious", etc.
Nobody ever ran for president if they weren't ambitious, but I think those are "she's not behaving like a lady" comments.
In my preperations for my "Women Artists" presentation at a the library, I'm recommending Clara and Mr Tiffany, a novel by Susan Vreeland. She writes excellent historical fiction, well researched. Clara Driscoll was "rediscovered" in the '90s after having been the designers of many of the most popular Tiffany lamps and windows at the beginning of the 20th century and was the head of the "Tiffant Studios Women's Glass Dept"
It's verygood.
Jean
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Jean, I second your recommendation of "Clara and Mr. Tiffany". Well researched Historical Fiction is my favorite genre and I really enjoy learning about "undiscovered" figures associated with more well-known ones.
Just recently, a friend recommended "The Hamilton Affair" - about Alexander Hamilton. After I read it, I re-watched the PBS program about the musical "Hamilton" and found that the characters made much more sense to me.
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I hope I did this correctly - here is the link to our discussion for Clara...
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2234.0
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JEAN: ". The people who say they don't like [Hilary] .. seem to be in the political opposition, or have gendered comments to make about her like "she's aggressive.."
had the opportunity to see Hilary in person. She walks like a man, long, confident strides (actually, few men I know walk that way now). I remember thinking "I'll bet a lot of men react against that, feeling she's aggressive." We women are supposed to take little mincing steps in our tight skirts and high heels.
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Oh my - I guess we all have our reasons - the way she walks was the least of my concerns or that she was aggressive - for me it was how the party ignored the 48% of the elected delegates to the convention last summer - seeing it directly from hand held cameras floored me that anything like that could even happen - so I ran from Hillary and the party that I voted for even when everyone went for Reagan - all my life and my mother's life we stuck to the Dems like glue but last summer I ran - the Green got me only because I did not know what to do... aggressive is one thing but that was beyond even my imagination and then to learn what other party heads were up to - whow - so no, nothing as what I would consider petty like how she walks or sits or talks or tweets that seem to catch the attention of so many.
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I have heard the same thing here - a friend really quite surprised me when she said she would never vote for Nicola Sturgeon 'because I'd never vote for anyone who dresses that badly'.
I must say I was shocked. I didn't for one minute think that this particular friend would ever be pro-Scottish National Party, but I never expected that to be why! She also said she had no time for Angela Merkel (German Chancellor) for the very same reason. And this friend is a highly educated professional person.
i hope I've taught my daughters to make their minds up - whatever their conclusions may be - by considering policies and behaviour, not appearances and 'dress sense'.
Rosemary
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For the next book discussion, we would really like to do Hidden Figures, the story of the invisible Black women mathematicians whose work was crucial to the space program, getting men to the moon.
The problem is availability. The libraries we've checked have long waiting lists, though shorter for ebook and big print, and used availability is low. Amazon has the paperback for under $10, kindle for 11, and a few "new" books for $5. Abe Books and Alibris were no better.
Would anyone who might want to discuss the book take a look and see if it's available to you at acceptable terms or wait times and let us know? (Watch out for the Young Readers edition, which is mixed in with the regular one.)
We were aiming for April 1, but can shift later if needed.
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Wow! I just checked my library system. We have 13 copies with 40 on hold of the print version, the eBook version has 68 copies on hold, there are two more print versions and one CD version on order.
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It is still on order in our libraries, so no copies actually available.
Rosemary
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Next thing to calculate is how long do these borrowed books stay in the hands of one person - there are 6 weeks till May - how many on the list of waiting do you think could have read and returned the book in the next 6 weeks and are we willing to purchase the book resale which is usually fewer dollars, even with delivery than buying new.
Please be hones on the idea of a purchase - to join I think I would according to how much the resale costs but not willing to pay full price because I do not see the book as a keeper - could be wrong but that is where I am now without having read the book.
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hmmm the paper back on Amazon is $9.59 with Prime free delivery - the least expensive resale is $4.99 + shipping that is $3.99 adds up to 61 cents less than buying new with a longer delivery time - hmmm
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Oops. I meant to say we were aiming for April 1, not May 1. That doesn't look likely now, given book difficulties.
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I would be interested, but am very busy thru May. Maybe June 1 would give readers an opportunity to get on the lists and get the book? I would be willing to buy a copy.
Jean
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I just ordered the PB book from the Book Depository for $8.04 and free shipping. Its in UK and takes 8 days to get here.
We could put this info with the announcement in the Library? I will have it by Mar 20th. About 253 pages. We could start it on April 1st?
I will check on their ebooks. I had already ordered my PB when I saw that they had ebooks. Annnnnd, they no longer offer Ebooks!😢It seems that Amazon has some kind of agreement with them about that.
So the URL is: booksregistry.com or you could try Alibris?
So I looked up Hidden Figures on Alibris and they have it for $4.51(for young adults) plus shipping probably around $3.99. I listened to the audio preview for young adults and it didn't seem to be any different from an adults audio.😋😋
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey
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Oops. I meant to say we were aiming for April 1, not May 1. That doesn't look likely now, given book difficulties.
Annie, I would be wary of the young readers edition without a chance to compare. Comparing tables of contents on Amazon, it has almost a quarter fewer pages, and the chapter headings have been simplified.
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Well,Alibris does have the adult book of Hidden Figures for $8.50 or so plus $3.99 shipping charges. The young age book also has #3.99 shipping.
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I haven't ordered Hidden Figures yet, but I did order Rise of the Rocket Girls: The Women Who Propelled Us from Missiles to the Moon to Mars by Nathalia Holt. While Hidden Figures concentrates on NASA, Rise of the Rocket Girls is about the women of the JPL Lab in California beginning way back in the 40s. The price was a lot better than what Amazon wants for Hidden Figures.
Oops! JPL is part of NASA. However, it grew out of the work at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory at the California Institute of Technology in 1936. "Rocket Girls" begins with Barbara Canright who was the first woman human computer on the pre-JPL team. BTW, one of the early woman human computers, as far as I can determine, still works at JPL. Popular Science recently published an article about her. http://www.popsci.com/planets-and-prejudice
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Thanks, Frybabe. I must look for Rocket Girls. I'm almost throughHidden Figures, and would like to know more. And I've also acquired Rocket Men, by Craig Nelson, which came with the highest reccomendation. Wasn't it amazing to watch it all happen back then. Why weren't we told that women were playing such a big part in the science and mechanics of the achievment?
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We weren't told a lot of things, or misinformed through error or on purpose. Some of it was simply that there is too much to learn in the limited amount of time they have to teach the young. That is why I think it is important to read and self-educate all through life. Then there are all the things we have forgotten over the years that get re-remembered with a little prodding.
I'll look into Rocket Men. I am getting a kick out of discovering that the word "rocket" was looked down upon by many pundits as pure science fiction, impossible, not to be taken seriously. That is why the JPL was called Jet Propulsion Laboratory and not Rocket Propulsion Laboratory. The early days of JPL are an interesting subject in their own right. Werner Von Braun and the rest on the East Coast got most of the glory, I think, even though we had people working on rockets and jet engines before he arrived.
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Very interesting article, Frybabe.
I just finished listening to story about Rachel Carson during the writing of Silent Spring. She so believed in her findings concerning pesticides and what they caused to happened to our bodies. It took decades after her death for science to act on her findings. In fact, some still don't want to admit she was correct. My mother read and spoke often about eating organic foods. Unfortunately, Carson died shortly died after her book Silent Spring was published. Another problem that she saw, involved how nuclear fallout could make changes in our DNA.
Carson was well known for a series of books about the sea around us. People loved the beauty of
her books and they were on best seller lists around the world. She was an author rock star!
Here is a list of women scientists and mathematicians who died in 2016.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/gone-in-2016-10-notable-women-in-science-and-technology/
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I read both Silent Spring and one of her books on the shoreline (New Jersey, I think). The book on the shore was indeed a lovely tribute to the ecology of the shoreline.
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I am reading a fun book titled "Wonderland: how play made the modern world" by Stephen Johnson. In the first scenario he theorizes how the development of the wish for cotten, calico and chinz as opposed the the uncomfortable, drab woolen garments and underwear of the 17th century, led to more exploration > to a greater need for growing cotten > to the growth of modern history slavery > to the Industrial Revolution > to the department store > to the shopping mall!!! He has also written "Where Good Ideas Come From", "How We Got to Now", and. "Everything Bad is Good for You." Sound intriguing.
I'm also reading The Way We Never Were" by Stephanie Coontz, an expert in the history of families. She wrote the first edition in 1992 about how we have mythologized marriage and family, how we think of those as having been so much better in the past. She gives facts and figures of the myths. She has updated it as our contemporary attitudes are changing quickly about such issues as gay marriage and interracial marriage. I.e. in 1991, 48 percent of American society approved of interracial marriage with 42 percent disapproving. By 2013, 87 percent of people said they approved while only 11 percent disapproved. She does good research and proves her theories to me.
Wow, Annie, that was a great article, I've filed it away in my STEM women file to use in a future presentation. 2016 was a bad year for society losing many great people.
And thank you Frybabe for posting the article on Rocket Girls.
Jean
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Some more books from the bibliography from my women's artists presentations at the library.
Candace Wheeler: The Art and Enterprise of American Design, 1875-1900 / Amelia Peck, Carol Irish, 2001. Wheeler along with L.C. Tiffany decorated many of the most “signigifcant” houses in NYC. She was a textile artist, particularly interested in embroidery and supported craftswomen by founding the Society of Decorative Arts in NYC and similar exchanges. You can find Candace Wheeler’s books How to Make Rugs and The Development of Embroidery in America, and Principles of Home Decorating for free at www.gutenberg.org. Remember they were published at the beginning of the 19th century and read as such and the pictures are in black and white.
Julia Morgan: architect of beauty/Mark Wilson; 2012; designer of over 700 buildings including the “Hearst Castle” at San Simeon
The Dinner Party: Judy Chicago and the power of popular feminism: 1970-2007/ Jane F Gerhard,
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The Hidden Figures discussion will start April 1 (not fooling). The pre-discussion is now out. Come in and get started
HERE (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=5053.0)
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Sometimes non-fiction books aren't. I wonder how many books written as non-fiction really are fiction. I know a few authors who do let you know that their work is, although written as if non-fiction, are actually novels. I wonder if, perhaps, so many authors these days state right in the title "A Novel" so there is no mistaking it for non-fiction. Some, however, actually wrote and promoted their books as non-fiction. Here are four. http://manybooks.net/articles/4-non-fiction-books-that-turned-out-to-be-fiction
I only knew about one of these being exposed as fiction.
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Interesting. The only one of those books I've read is Go Ask Alice, and though I didn't know it had been exposed, there were enough details that didn't seem quite right, that I felt sure it was partly or wholly fiction.
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I didn't read any of them, but I do remember the big stink over The Amityville Horror.
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that's really bad. the publishers should get a rap on the knuckles for not doing more too verify the honesty of the books.
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I understand what they are saying about those "fictional accounts", but we readers must know that it's good to read more than one source about a person or event. Some writers make assumptions that might not be factual, especially when writing/reading about communities who have been somewhat lost to history. I've often cautioned my students/audiences about that.
Recently in my presentations about women artists I came across one source that said Anna Peale, dgt of James Peale, was the first professional woman artist in the country; another source said that her younger sister Sarah was the first professional woman artist in the country. Anna was 9 yrs older than Sarah and it was said that she sold her first paintings when she was 20, meaning Sarah would have had to have sold her work at age 11!!!!! 😊 But I also know that Patience Lovell Wright and her sister were sculptors with studios in NYC and Philly before the American Revolution - Anna Peale was born in 1791! PLW also sculpted prominent persons in London and Paris during the Rev, 15 yrs before Anna was born. Because women's history has often been lost, it's possible the authors never heard of Wright and just made an assumption.
Even as esteemed an historian as Stephen Ambrose in his book about Lewis and Clark's trek through the Northwest kept saying they were "the first white men " in some parts of the country. I kept thinking maybe he should have qualified that as "may have been the first white men..........". European trappers, who didn't write down their travel experiences, could very likely have already been there.
We are learning so many more history facts everyday, particulary about communities that haven't been documented, that good historians need to be cautious about being so certain about what they write and readers need to also be skeptical.
Jean
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Recently finished Ron Chernow's bio of Alexander Hamilton. All I can say is WOW! Excellent book.
I am of the opinion that the author was at times overly fond of the subject. I'd like to hear the opinion of anyone who has read it.
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Jean, your point is well taken. There is also the possibility that, in addition, the authors may not have researched any further than women painters. If your sources were just talking about painters rather than all art forms, they were too narrowly focused and made the mistake of using the word artist instead of painter or assumed the reader would know they were talking about painters only.
It really is a wonder that most history isn't distorted (or maybe most is and we don't realize it) by the lack of precision in wording, not to mention thoroughness in research. I think that is especially true today with so many contract authors on deadlines that make it difficult to be so thorough. Oh, and then there are the errors of previous authors that get compounded when they are used as sources. We could go on and on about errors in language translation and changes in word use that skew things if a more modern author is not aware of them. Ex: Egregious. When you hear that word you automatically think negative. The word means extraordinary, distinguished, outstanding. In Roman times, it was a positive word, now-a-days it is most definitely negative. A complete flip on the meaning/intent which, if you didn't know that, you might think of some ancient action being related as something awful rather than something that was positive or praised at the time.
Even worse, these days, is the lack of precision in speaking. I am sometimes guilty of same. I believe our current President suffers from imprecise language and a lack of proper word usage.
And don't start me on the hidden agendas of some writers and how they slant their wording, while preserving the actual event itself, toward one or another personal belief or world view regarding a person or event.
Uh, Oh! I got on a soapbox. Off it now.
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Great soapbox observations, Frybabe, on looking for historical accuracy and honest language. And a great example of setting the record straight from Jean.
So I got a great chuckle out of Evergreen tossing Ron Chernow's bio of Alexander Hamilton in for comment. History writing doesn't get more thorough than this comprehensive book. I read it about ten years ago and just recently decided to reread. No doubt the author took a great pleasure in researching his subject and its truthfulness is surely beyond question.
The president is making a great effort at communicating, but he is, after all, a man of action.
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A friend was reading a bio of Hamilton that she said was excellent, but very long, and I forgot to get the authors name. I'll bet that's the one.
I never realized how crucial Hamilton was to the development of our economy, until a friend lent me a short biography. He was pitted against Jefferson, who had this vision of America as an agrarian (i.e. farming) society. But Hamilton, by putting the American economy (and our money)on a sound international basis, made our development into a trading and industrial giant possible.
If Jefferson had had his way, rather than the rural paradise he envisioned, we might have been more like many South American countries, with a few rich landowners and many poor peasants.
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'Egregious' is such a super word. To use it (see Frybabe's post #2948) one should know what one is talking about.
Now Ron Chernow's bio of Alexander Hamilton is a very readable book. Thanks, Evergreen, for reminding me. He certainly does feel very warmly about his subject. Just reading the Prologue convinces one of that. And there, on page 5 is that word. I want to quote it:
'I have tried to gather anecdotal material that will bring this cerebral man to life as both a public and a private figure. Charming and impestuous, romantic and witty, dashing and headstrong, Hamilton offers the biographer an irresistible psychological study. For all his superlative mental gifts, he was afflicted with a touchy ego that made him querulous and fatally combative. He never outgrew the stigma of his illegitimacy; and his exquisite tact often gave way to egregious failures of judgment that left even his keenest admirers aghast. If capable of numerous close friendships, he also entered into titanic feuds with Jefferson, Madison, Adams, and Burr.'
And what a romantic picture of the widowed Eliza Hamilton, carrying the torch for fifty years, making a shrine to her husband out of her home and finding comfort and companionship in his bust. A very handsome sculpture.
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My newspaper today features a picture of President Trump at his desk in the Oval Office. Can someone tell me, which president that is in the large frame on the wall at President Trump's shoulder. I think it may be Andrew Jackson.
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Yes, it is Andrew Jackson. Trump is a great fan of Jackson's.
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Just starting City of Light, City of Poison -- Murder, Magic and the First Police Chief of Paris" by Holly Tucker
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Also Last Hope Island by Lynne Olson. Stories of forgotten souls from seven countries who found refuge in England. King Has of Norway, Queen Wilhhelmina, Earl of Suffolk who rescued two nuclear scientists from France, Polish pilots and code breakers.
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I would third, if there is such a thing, "Clara And Mr. Tiffany". :D
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I would third, if there is such a thing, "Clara And Mr. Tiffany". :D
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"Lilac Girls" by Martha Hall Kelly. Story of New York socialite who championed a group of concentration camp survivors known as the Rabbits.
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I recently read an opinion of Lilac Girls which said it was not a very well written book which lead to a dissatisfying story.
Hats, is that really you?? What a welcome surprise! I believe we have already discussed Clara and Mr Tiffany.
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Yes, it's me. Thanks for the welcome. Just stopping by. I will head to the Archives and look up "...Mr. Tiffany."
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How nice to see posts from Friends. I won't say 'old', because I'm in a state of denial about that and I don't get the impression of that in your posts.
Thanks, MaryZ, for the confirmation on the president in the frame in the Oval Office. And the info that Andrew Jackson is the President's hero. The author (with the Pittsburgh Gazette) of another column in my paper suggests that the president is not well read. He has Andrew Jackson active in the Civil War period.
Thanks, Kidsal, for the information aboutCity of Light, City of Poison, I'm going to look for that one. I'm wondering if it deals with the events which are the subject of a book I've had on my shelf some time and have been meaning to read: The Affair of the Poisons, Murder, Infanticide and Satanism at the Court of Louis XIV Is the police chief in your book one Nicolas-Gabriel de La Reynie?
How nice to hear from you, Hats. It's so long ago since I first began enjoying your posts. Best Wishes.
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reading a great book for us science nerds: "Furry Logic." by Matin Durrani, Liz Kalaugher
t explains how animals use physics to solve everyday problems.
Based on this book, I am creating a number of physics antidotes with morals to tell my grandchildren: moral lessons through physics. The first was how mosquitoes use Newton's second law to avoid being killed by raindrops. (short answer: they go with the flow).
Last night I told them how geckos use subatomic forces to stick to the ceiling. (they stick one hair at a time, and we got into a discussion of how Newton discovered (now called calculus) that if you divided a problem into tiny bits, solved them one at a time, and put the results back together, you could do amazing things! (a good motto for this wedding we're trying to put together!)
The kids loved it, especially once I told them there were no tests, and they couldn't fail. I'm told one of them bragged he was the only kid who could get into physics discussions with his grandmother.
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Yes the police chief is de La Reynie.
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Never heard of your book and physics was not my forte in school. I only took it to escape taking chemistry. I love your talks with your grandchildren. They are learning strange things! Sounds like you are a perfect grandmother!
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...physics was not my forte in school. I only took it to escape taking chemistry.
That's funny. Most people think physics is even worse than chemistry. :-\
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One of Charlie Rose's interview programs sent me to a new book - The Gatekeepers: How the Chiefs of Staff Define Every Presidency. It starts with Nixon's CofS. I'm up to the Reagan area now. It's fascinating, if you're into politics/government at all, nonpartisan, and very readable.
https://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-White-Chiefs-Define-Presidency-ebook/dp/B01I85QC28/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1499252517&sr=1-1&keywords=the+gatekeepers
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Because I'm facilitating presentations on women's history at the library, all my non-fiction reading is focused on American women in history. At the moment I'm anxiously waiting for a book from Amazon, American Women's History. It's a one volume encyclopedia that I found in the reference section at the library and it's so interesting.
I stopped doing the "series" presentations. I thought "these people must be weary of coming for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks at a time. So I suggested to the librarian that I do one a month - The History Cafe: the A, B, Cs of history - and I am doing one letter each month. The librarian said "oh, you're going to be the Sue Grafton of women's history!" 😀😀. So in June I did "Abigail Adams" - some of you, and David McCullough, are fans of hers, and "abolitionists". In July it was "The Blackwell Family" - they may have been the most active and progressive family thru generations and included not only the first and third women to become degreed medical doctors in the US, but had Lucy Stone and Antionette Brown Blackwell - the first woman ordained minister - as wives/in-laws. Where did they come from!?!
Their family papers are at Schlesinger Library at Radcliff. This website is easy and fun reading. There are many links to the whole family
Jean
https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/event/2016-women-of-blackwell-family-exhibition
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Thomas Fleming died this week, he was 90 years old. He had written some great books about the Revolutionary War period, both non-fiction and fiction. I first found him through the fiction book "Officer's Wives" which I read while working for Dept of Army at Ft Dix and he had me laughing outloud. The cammander in the book was an egotistical blowhard and much like the commander at Ft Dix at the time. He also wrote several fiction books about the NY/NJ area during the colonial and revolutionary period which I enjoyed and he wrote history books for children.
Mr. Fleming wrote biographies of Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. He chronicled the battles of Bunker Hill and Lexington and Concord and a lesser-known one in Springfield, N.J., in 1780. He wrote about the seminal year 1776. And he looked back at the duel in 1804 between Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton.
This is from the NYTs obit
Mr. Fleming, the loquacious son of a tough New Jersey pol, viewed America’s struggle for independence as essential to understanding the history that followed. “So much of what happened later is virtually anchored in the Revolution,” he told the Journal of the American Revolution in 2013. “The whole Civil War pivots on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.”
Read the whole obit here.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/books/thomas-fleming-dead-historian-and-historical-novelist.html
Here is his wikipedia site which list all of his books
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Fleming_(historian)
Jean
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Walter Isaacson has taken on da Vinci. His book will be released in October.
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Having read your link to Walter Isaacson, I zeroed in on his book about Albert Einstein. I am convinced that the series called "Genius" was written by Isaacson. Must go check on that! But for
now 😉😉😉!
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And I am right! Tada!!!!😜😜😜
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Thanks for that information, Frybabe. I'll be watching for it. What a genius. I've just started Ross King's Leonardo and The Last Supper. The biography will be a good follow-up.
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I am just starting a book called The Day Democracy Died by Anselm Audley. I can't tell you anything about it yet except that it is about Athens. The author is a British fantasy writer who graduated college after studying Ancient and Modern History. His mother was Elizabeth Aston who wrote, among other books, the Darcy series. This is Audley's first work of non-fiction.
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I'm reading Hidden Figures. It's quite interesting. Lots of background information. And i'm just about ten pages into Chernow's Hamilton. No opinion yet.
Jean
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I read Hidden Figures a couple of months ago. I lived just a few miles from Langley Air Force Base and two of my children were born there. My brother-in-law worked there at NACA (later NASA) but I never heard a word about the black engineers or mathematicians. So there was much in the book that surprised me about that and much about the racial stigma that did not. I haven't seen the movie but have read some good reviews.
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We discussed Hidden Figures here. It's a frustrating book in a way, because its organization makes it hard to follow, but it's packed with interesting stuff. JoanK was a computer programmer back then, with many of the problems these women faced, though not segregated rest rooms. It's disgusting the hoops marginalized people have to jump through just to do the work they're perfectly capable of doing.
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I'm enjoying her prose, but I'm also skimmimg a lot of the aeronautical descriptions. They are far beyond me. This is one of those times when I say "i'm very glad someone is interested in doing that job (or understanding that info - like Jane Goodall being in the wilds with the chimps) but I sure don't want to do it." 😀
I'll check the archives for the discussion.
Jean
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Oh, yes, I remember the discussion, but I had forgotten the link to what Shetterly was working on. I must remember to keep an eye out for those two books.
Jean
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Reading Grant
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I,m all into the post revolutionary war period of U.S. history. I read Hamilton, and have Jefferson on the order, and have started a book on Madison.
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I am reading The Woman who Smashed Codes:A True Story of Love, Spies, and the Unlikely Heroine Who Outwitted America's Enemies by Jason Fagone. Very interesting story of Wm and Elizabeth Friedman who were two of the first cryptologists in the country. Altho she always lauded his work, she actually broke many of the important Nazi codes. They started out and met by working for this very creepy guy who was supporting the research of a woman who was trying to prove that Bacon was responsible for the Shakespeare writings. She thought she saw acode in the way the letters were formed. This was before WWI and the Friedman’s decided she was wrong.
Neither of them was trained in ciphering, they just fell into it and had the minds to do it. From the author
A hundred years ago, a young woman in her early twenties suddenly became one of the greatest codebreakers in the country. She taught herself how to solve secret messages without knowing the key. Even though she started out as a poet, not a mathematician, she turned out to be a genius at solving these very difficult puzzles, and her solutions ended up changing the 20th century. She helped us win the world wars. And she also shaped the intelligence community as we know it today.
Interesting read, new book.
Jean
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I am reading Bomber Girls by M. J. Foreman. Did you know that the first female military plane and fighter pilot in the world was Ataturk's daughter?
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They both sound fascinating! Esspecially the code breaker. I'm continuing to read about the period after the Revolution, when our founding fathers were trying to figure out how this country try should work. Having done the battle between Hamilton and Jefferson, I'm reading about Madison and the constitution.
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While at the library, I cruised through the Friends of the Library bookstore and came away with Custer, Sitting Bull and the Battle of the Little Big Horn by Nathaniel Philbrick plus two fiction books. I have no idea when I will get around to reading these.
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In reading a,biography of James Madison. The ideas are interesting, but I'm drowning in detail!
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Joan
I read a bio of Madison some time ago, and one of the things that has stayed with me is that he was a fifth generation American. I didn’t think he was straight off the boat, but I was surprised at “5th.”
Monroe, who was Madison’s neighbor in Virginia, may have been a fifth generation also, but I’m not certain about about him.
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Reading Wally Lamb’s “I know this much is true” but don’t know if I will continue it. I am finding it to be a real downer. I will give it a few more pages. Also picked up a Monk book by Anne Perry.
We have s big library here in the Villas plus the Columbus library comes in once a month offering much for us to peruse. And you can order anything you want. They set up on the bridge where many folks play different games like euchre and poker plus we had a great Halloween party out there a few weeks ago. Costumes were worn by most. And food was provided by a family whose dad lives here. He came dressed as Liberace. It’s amazing how creative everyone was. Lots of fun here. Whole different world!
Today OSU will be playing Illinois and many of us will be watching the game in one of the living rooms. There’s a pool or two offered. I bet in two of them last week and won them both. $20! A little spending money in my pocket. We watch the game and eat all kinds of good food many different folks bring. All is set up on big table along with drinks. No one has to cook their dinner on game day.
All this reminds me of Ella Gibbons and the things she told us of her three tier home. She’s been gone a year and I still miss her. She was such a big part of SL and the books she discussed with us were always good!
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Yes, Annie I too miss Ella and it is not over 2 years since my very best friend left us - found a poem I put in the Poetry that said something to the affect at the table we drink coffee with those from our past - I realize it is true - our memories are part of us and when we muse while drinking coffee it is these good friends who come to mind. I decided instead of banishing such thoughts as too depressing instead to keep them close so they become as everyday as a cup of coffee - I may turn into one of these little old ladies who appear to be talking to herself as I talk to those who are as much a part of me as my drinking a cup of coffee. So there is a tear or two - worse things can happen...
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I miss Ella so much! She's really knew how too pick good job fiction.
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Someone came in with lots of books for the library bookstore today. I picked up two American history books: Sea of Glory: America's Voyage of Discovery - The U.S. Exploring Expedition of 1838-1842. by Nathaniel Philbrick and The Desert Between the Mountains - Mormons, Miner, Padres, Mountain Men and the Opening of the Great Basin, 1772-1869 by Michael S. Durham. Talk about your mouthful for titles.
In just a while I am going downstairs to watch the last episode of Medieval Dead. Very interesting.
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Medieval Dead over Charlie Brown's Christmas... ???
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Yes. Haven't watched Christmas cartoons/programs/movies for years. But my favorite has to be The Grinch Who Stole Christmas. The cartoon, not the Jim Carey one. I don't remember seeing that one.
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I’ve read just 40 pages of “The Patriarch: the remarkable life and turbulent times of Joseph P. Kennedy” byDavid Nasaw. The writing is very good and appears to be very well researched. It was published in 2012 and apparently there have been many letters that have come to light, or available to writers and scholars. I think I will find it enlightening and enjoyable. I don’t have a very positive picture of JK. The author implies in the intro that that very negative portrait we’ve been told is misleading, so I’m curious to see what I might learn.
Jean
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Some of you were around, long ago, when we read much of Ariel and Will Durant’s “Story of Civilization” i think we went on for 6 or 7 years ( that doesn’t seem possible, but I believe I’m right on that. Robbie??? Help me out)
I actually learned about what became Seniorlearn because of that discussion. I was teaching a course on Western Civ and googled something and the discussion came up. Robbie did a yeoman’s job facilitating it for us and it was such fun to be able to see the links of all sorts of things related to early civilizations i.e. art, architecture, etc. I assume the discussion is in the archives, I haven’t looked.
Some comments about that series of books is in a discussion “The lessons of history” offered for free on the Learnoutloud site. It was mentioned in their end of year newsletter.
https://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/Philosophy/History-of-Philosophy/The-Lessons-of-History/3841?utm_source=FROTD&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Free%2BResource%20of%20the%20Day
By the way- The Patriarch continues to be good reading.
Jean
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Two books showed up on Project Gutenberg with rather interesting titles, neither of which I plan on reading. The text is a bit too "stuffy" (maybe even pedantic?) and, of course, I am not a guy. Both might come under the category of self-improvement books of the early to mid 1800's and might interest those who are into the history of education.
Table Talk: Essays on Men and Manners by William Hazlitt http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3020
How to Be a Man by Harvey Newcomb http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/56263 Newcomb also wrote Young Lady's Guide among other self-improvement books along the same line for both young girls and boys.
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Those books from the past about behavior are interesting to browse through and, in some cases, appalling, and in other cases I wish for some of that civility.
Jean
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Yesterday I picked up The Reminiscences of Mary Hallock Foote, Edited by Rodman W . Paul, from the library. These are the real life letters from which Wallace Stegner wrote his Pulitzer Prize winning novel, Angle of Repose.
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Anyone interested in Goethe may like to read his autobiography. Gutenberg has it: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/52654
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thanks Frybabe - saved the Goethe link
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
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This came today from my Library of America's weekly read - the first race riot...
http://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2018/01/they-all-fired-at-her.html
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I am, at present, reading A Victorian Gentlewoman in the Far West: The Reminiscences of Mary Hallock Foote, edited by Rodman W. Paul. The first part is a sketch of family, acquaintances, and Quaker life among the New York Quakers, both city and country. They were strong supporters of anti-slavery and women's sufferage. Friends and acquaintances included such prominent New Yorkers as Ellwood Walter (Mercantile Mutual Insurance Company, marine insurance and large landowner), Moses S. Beach (owner of the New York Sun newspaper at the time) and George Haviland (of the Haviland China family), as well as Henry Ward Beecher.
This was an era of expanding advanced educational opportunities for women. Mary Hallock Foote attended The School of Design for Women in New York. It was one of the most advanced schools available to women at that time. The footnotes (probably the editor's) comment on Coopers Union so I gather that the Design School was part of it. Coopers Union was established in 1859. As a side note, Irving College, right here in Mechanicsburg, PA was established in 1856 as a liberal arts college for women. I think they began with two degrees, Bachelor of Arts and Mistress of English Literature.
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Reading Spy Princess. True story of an Indian Muslim girl from France who was flown into Paris during WW II as a radio operator. Was captured and died in Dachau.
Also if course Grant by Chernow!
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Frybabe - do you know what happened to Irving College? I’m from Shippensburg and never heard of a college in M-burg. Did it morph into something else, or just fade away.
That sounds like an interesting book. Imagine how slow progress in social issues would have been without all the pressure from Quaker women and men.
Jean
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Jean, Irving College was in existence from 1856-1929.
https://pahistoricpreservation.com/spotlight-series-national-register-the-irving-female-college/ This site has some automatically scrolling photos part way down the page. I don't know what happened to Columbia Hall, but I believe the President's Residence eventually became part of Seidle Hospital when some of the property was sold after the college closed. When I was growing up, Seidle was known as a women's hospital; I remember that big wrap around veranda from when I was little. Pinnacle bought Seidle, I forget when, built a new building and converted the old building to Doctor's offices. I think the old building has since been torn down. That pretty much just leaves Irving Hall as the last building standing.
http://gardnerlibrary.org/encylopedia/irving-college I included this site because Gardner Digital Library is a Cumberland County Historical Society initiative. I thought you might like to check out some of the other stuff on Cumberland County.
So you can see some of exterior of the Irving building today. They are still using them for appartments. https://www.apartments.com/12-s-filbert-st-mechanicsburg-pa/9n7w7q7/
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On the other note, Jean. I determined that I wasn't going to get my library loan finished before I have to return it so I ordered a hard to find hard cover of the book. It isn't in ebook form, but there are plenty of soft covers available. I try to buy as many of my non-fiction/history books in hard cover as possible. This one, to me, is worth the price; it is that interesting.
It appears that ABE Books has changed the notification process slightly. I was used to the actual book vendor emailing me to let me know they got the order. I kind of remember that ABE's policy was that the books were to ship within 24hrs. of order acceptance. Now it looks like ABE does the update notifications for the vendor and there is no mention in the email about the within 24hr. shipping requirement. I need to look into that to make sure I didn't miss something and that the book is soon on its way. It is supposed to arrive around the 15th of Feb. Can't wait.
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Abe's policy may vary with the vendor. I ordered a book from them Jan 25th, choosing expedited shipping, 3-6 business days, got two notices from the vendor. It was "shipped" on the 26th, and tracking has it departed from a shipping partner facility on the 30th, and not yet received by the USPS. Good thing it's not urgent.
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I received my book yesterday. The person who packed the book took great care with it, first wrapping it in paper, then a plastic bag, next came the bubble wrap, and finally the padded envelop. I am very pleased with the condition of the book and the care to see it got to me unharmed. The book itself is a 1st edition board book. It now resides in my collection of US history books. I could have put it with my art books or with the biographies/autobiographies/memoirs, but the US history shelves had some space to fill, whereas, the other two do not.
I am weeding some more of my garden books. I've decided, much as I hate to give them up, I haven't done any intensive gardening in years and can no longer handle major pruning projects. My New York Botanical Gardens booklets are among those to go to the library bookstore. Those I consider rather precious, so they may end up back on my shelf.
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Thank you for that information Frybabe
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Isn't special Frybabe to open a package with a book that has been carefully prepared for shipment - as if the person wrapping the book cared about it as much as we care about a child - lovingly sending their heartfelt goodness with the shipment - love it...
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As usual, only responding to the select few. No wonder so few now!!
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Yes, Kidsal. It does seem that sometimes I am "talking" to myself sometimes, but I keep; insisting on posting anyway. I hope that some of my posts are of interest to those who read but do not post. There are a few.
I've been spending a little more time over on our sister site because there are more people posting, but someone mentioned the other day they are losing posters too. Neither site seems to be attracting very many new posters to replace those we've lost. For the most part, my reading interests are not coinciding the group lately. Also, I noticed that we, here, are making most of our posts over in the Library discussion to the neglect of the genre discussions. This one kind of went downhill fast after we lost Ella.
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I think Frybabe since we are fewer and fewer we are congregating on one site - just share you special thoughts with all of us - we seem to be, 'all together boys how do you like the weather boys' kind of group these days - the younger folks who do read are mostly working demanding jobs and those retiring in their 60s do not like to align themselves with 'Senior' anything - we seem to be a dying breed.
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Yes, Kidsal, sometimes it seems as if only a few people chat back and forth.
I am listening to a nonfiction, The Woman Who Smashed Codes. It's interesting, very long to listen to, though. I did some further searching on the internet about names in the book, and I may have to follow up with some other books. Right now the section of the book I'm in is concerning the development of code breaking in WWI. I believe it gets into WWII eventually.
I'm thinking the book you mentioned, Spy Princess, sounds interesting. No copies in our library or on Overdrive, and right now I'm not buying books. But I'll keep checking.
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Frybabe, you are one of our most prolific posters. I certainly read everything you post, but don't always answer unless I have something to say. For example, I'm half way through that weird WWI pamphlet, and will finish it sometime to see where he's going, but don't have any comments yet.
It's always a problem where to comment on a book; the Library gets more readers, but the genre discussions are more focused.
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Someone must have heard my complaint about my Abe book. 4 hours after I posted, it was reported as being in a local post office, and I got it in my mail the next day.
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😀😀😀
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(http://78.media.tumblr.com/deee1daeba2e10d9ba108ccb68c8e99f/tumblr_or6cutJADD1ro4v2no1_500.jpg)
A Suffragette is arrested in the street by two Police Officers in London in 1914.
6th February 2018 marks 100 years since some women won the right to vote in Ireland and the UK
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I've just caught up with this discussion - I don't come into the Non-Fiction bit often, as I don't read much non-fiction, but it would be so awful if this site folded. I mus be old for my age or something, as I have been on and off seniorlearn for some years now, and I am not even (quite) 60. I love it dearly - everyone is welcoming and also so very well-informed.
If I read any non-fiction i will tell you! Actually I did read Jim Crumley's Autumn last year. He is a wonderful author and a very popular Scottish nature writer. I also read Nature's Architect, his book about beavers and how they should never have been eradicated (he says if they hadn't been we would not have any problems with rivers flooding) - he is involved in somewhat clandestine plots to reintroduce them to Scotland, as he and his friends think the government's project is rubbish. He is a true Scot from Stirling, with a healthy disregard for rules and regulations, and a brilliant ability to watch nature, then write about it is a way that is interesting even for someone like me, brought up in a city, who knows virtually nothing.
Just remembered I also read (I probably mentioned this somewhere else - if so, apologies) Esther Woolfson's Field Notes From A Hidden City, which was fabulous. She lives in the same part of Aberdeen that I inhabited for several years when my children were younger, so I really have no excuse for being so ignorant about wildlife.
Rosemary
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Well, now I learned something. I didn't know beavers existed in Europe and Asia. I always thought they were a North American thing.
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It seems there were many beavers in this country once, but they were driven out by farmers and landowners who thought they were destructive pests. Now there is an official and rather limited reintroduction scheme - and a network of unofficial 'reintroducers' with their own plans. I really would recommend Jim Crumley's book - he writes not only about beavers but also architecture and jazz, drawing parallels between them, the beavers' impressive construction skills, and their remarkable ability to improvise. He's also written books about eagles, wild swans and wolves.
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Rosemary, my husband spent much time during his career in wildlife biology dealing with the damage beavers here caused to roads and dikes. I suggested he read this book, but he said he always has had a healthy respect for the beavers' constructions. He had to deal with government agencies that thought their roads were more important, so he learned early how determined those beavers are. Retired now, but we still roam the state areas he worked on, and he shows me how beavers work to make their environment more livable. Unfortunately, often wildlife take a position way down the list in importance. The eagles here, though, are much cared about, so that some communities on the river north of here have "eagle days" in the winter where they set up viewing spots to watch but not interfere with the eagles. We do see them often as we are out and about.
One bird we watch for every early spring is the sandhill crane. This year they returned early, end of February. It is fun to see them flying and hear their calls. Bet they'll be cold here this week, as we return to lows in the teens for the week.
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The weather was nice enough here today that I could hide the eggs and candy in the back yard. However the wild life has been very plentiful on our property this spring. I told the grandsons that they needed to come immediately after church so they would beat the deer, rabbits, squirrels and hawk to those colorful, shining objects. 😱
Jean
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I just picked up a copy of Cinelle Barnes book, Monsoon Mansions https://www.cinellebarnes.com/ It looks really interesting, but I don't expect to get to it soon.
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nlhome, we have sandhill cranes near here by the thousands as they rest on their way north. My daughter and I went on a boat tour to see them when they were here this past January. There is a multi-day "festival" to view/watch the sandhills, snow geese, and other migratory birds where the Hiwassee River flows into the Tennessee River. It's truly an amazing sight!
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They are, aren't they, maryz? We traveled to Indiana one fall, Jasper Pulaski Wildlife Area, when they staged for going further south. Beautiful and noisy. My husband did research on sandhills over 40 years ago, so we got up close and personal with some of them then. Now where we live, we see them as we drive through the marshlands and along the river valleys between the bluffs.
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I discovered this book on Amazon (as far as I know the only place it is available) which I am ordering. Song of Praise for a Flower: One Woman's Journey through China's Tumultuous 20th Century, by Fengxian Chu and Charlene Chu, is a biography/memoir. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07791M17S?tag=viglink125204-20 I read some of the excerpt and expect it to be every bit as interesting and wonderfully written as the Chinese Science Fiction that I so admire.
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I hit the jackpot this morning with Project Gutenberg. Along with a book of Robin Hood stories, etc. there is this narrative of the Scott expedition to Antarctica by one of the survivors of the 1910-1913 expedition. The author includes photos and maps. The Worst Journey in the World by Apsley Cherry-Garrard http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/14363
My Mom was always fascinated by the Antarctic expeditions, but her focus was on those of Shackleton and the Endurance. This is curious because I always thought she said one of our relatives was aboard one of the northern pole expeditions, not the South Pole. At the time she mentioned it, I hadn't paid much attention, plus she didn't know much other he was a member of one of the expeditions. Too bad I hardly recall what little bit she did know. I don't even know whether he was from the Evans or Clapham side of the family.
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WOW, Frybabe!! You certainly did hit the jackpot with The Worst Journey in the World. A few years ago it topped National Geographic's list of the 100 greatest adventure books of all time. It's tops with me. I've read it several times. It was reccomended by our first-year philosophy professor, as a good example of human resourcefulness and endurance. There's also a good biography of the author by Sara Wheeler: Cherry: A Life of Apsley Cherry-Garrrard. Awesome reading.
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Thanks, Jonathan. I had never heard of Apsley Cherry-Garrard before this morning. What a name. There must be a story there, all by itself ;D
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In yet another effort to understand Quantum Physics, I am now reading What Is Real?: The Unfinished Quest for the Meaning of Quantum Physics by astrophysicist Adam Becker.
So far, which isn't at all far yet, I am finding the book very readable and interesting. Already I have learned about a very common misconception about the Schrodinger's Cat mind experiment. Schrodinger said that the cat would either be dead or alive but we wouldn't know until we opened the box. But many physicists decided to go with the idea that the cat was both and alive and the end result was decided when the box is opened, a seemingly slight, but important, distinction. Einstein got it, but Bohr and the majority of the physicists favored the second approach.
My main question, at the moment, is what is the transition point at which standard physics and quantum physics intersect. What is the catalyst? Apparently, that is a question the author is asking too.
I have always thought of Quantum Physics as someone's idea of a cosmic joke. However, now we have Quantum computers and such that actually work.
Uh, oh! Speaking of Quantum Physics, my Quantum cat just appeared. Shan has an uncanny ability to play now you see him, now you don't. He seems to transport himself from one place to another, instantly. He even comes with a Star Trek like communicator twitter.
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That about what to expect from a cat that wears a galactic Master Trader ring. ;)
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Seems like I recieved "notification" when someone posted here, but hadn't seen one in ages. I decided that I would check all the groups that I used to be "notified" about; Movies & Books into Movies; Fiction, Old, New, Best Sellers and Mystery Corner. (I get regular input from The Library) It is true that there are so few postings in any of the above, and one starts to wonder if interest has been lost or if we have lost so many of "our people". I subscribe to TBD-Bookoholics and over the past 6 months, readership (and poster-ship, LOL) has dropped off to nearly nothing, with the leader's comment "should we close this down". That brought a lot of us "out of the woodwork" for a bit. Mostly it's a matter of age and the ensuing "busyness" that's keeping us from regular posting; i.e. doctor's appts., family concerns, ad infinitum. I think I will pop into the SL boards I mentioned earlier and at least say "hi". (Hey, it's not that I am NOT reading...I have so many books from my library, and so many on my TBR stack, and hundreds on my KindleFire, that some days I feel that all I am doing is reading!) Addendum: I am taking a short class at one of my Community Colleges, on the Films of Alfred Hitchcock which led me to check out (on my own) four Non Fiction books about his films. That is keeping me busy for my nighttime reading!
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Glad to see you back TomeReader. I sometimes think I've posting to myself these few months. But then, I haven't joined into any of the specifice book discussions in a while either. That is where everyone has been lately.
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Our recent discussion at the library on women’s history was about Mary Lincoln and Jackie K Onassis. I facilitate the discussions and I picked the two women only to talk about the myths surrounding them and the assasinations, but what a surprise I got as I formed a question of “how were they similar?”.......They were a lot more alike than I suspected, both of them restoring the White House and being criticized for spending so much money.
They both saw that making their mark in history was possible through marrying a man who would be president. They were both, of course, traumatized by the assassinations and loss of children, and both suffered what we would now call PTSD. You’ve probably heard the stories of Mary Lincoln’s obessessions with fear of being in poverty and her fighting to get a pension from the gov’t and that her only surviving son had her committed to an asylum, but Jackie’s family was very fearful for a long time that she would kill herself. She asked a priest if she would be with Jack “on the other side” if she killed herself.
Jackie eventually, after Ari’s death, became her own person and had a happy last third of her life. Mary never was got to that point.
These are the two books I read about them (every participant in the group can read whatever they wish and contribute information to the discussion - it’s called “History Mosaic.”) 😊
The Lincolns : portrait of a marriage / Daniel Mark Epstein.
Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis : the untold story / Barbara Leading
I enjoyed them both. They are both 21st century books.
Jean
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https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/delmonicos-womens-lunch?
Jean, I saw this very interesting article on AtlasObscura, which is a fascinating website. Hope you will visit this and read about the Women's Club Lunch at Delmonico's. I thought of you when I read it!
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Thank you Tome for sharing that. We have come a long way. :) There are stories of thousands and thousands of women who stepped out of their comfort zone to push women’s rights forward, even if for just an inch, or just in their vicinity. Thank goodness their stories are now being dug out and shared so we can understand the struggle and our power.
Jean
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I found a delightful group of free ebooks while doing some research for my library presentation on “First Ladies of Influence” - Dolley Madison.
Dolly Madison /Maud Wilder Goodwin, 1896; a free ebook on Google books, one of a series Scribner’s Sons published titled Women of Colonial and Revolutionary Times; each is well-researched. Notice that the title spells her name incorrectly, and the author does so throughout the book.
I live in south Jersey and have a presentation on Women in the Neighborhood. In this book I discovered that Dolley had relatives in Haddonfield - a town about five miles from me - and spent a lot of time there. I guess I have to add her to that presentation! I LOVE the INTERNET!
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I’m also reading a very good book titled Civil War Wives: Angelina Grimke Weld, Varina Davis (Jefferson’s wife), Julia Dent Grant (Gen Grant’s wife) by Carol Berkin. Berkin is a prof at CUNY and a historian you may have seen onCSPAN especially when talking about 18th and 19th century. I enjoy her writing.
The Grimke sisters are two of my favorite women in American history. They were born on a plantation in the Carolinas which had slaves. As young adults they moved to Philadelphia and became some of the first women to speak to coed audiences as abolitionists, telling of their facts about slavery. She married another abolitionist Theodore Weld.
Varina Davis has a life that you should read about when you think you are having a bad day. She was 18 when she married Jeff, who was 18 yrs older than her. Others spoke of her as an intellectual and charming and witty person, but that was not appropriate behavior for a southern belle and Jefferson chastised her infront of others about her behavior. She moved to his family’s home and was very lonely and homesick, resulting in frequent physical illnesse. As with many couples at the time she and JD lost several children to illness. She nursed Jefferson through several illnesses that were aggravated by stress. She traveled, under very tough conditions, to be with him in Washington, back and forth several times. When he became the Confederate president she traveled for 4 days with 4 children sitting on a train to get to Richmond, the capitol of the Confederacy. Then there were all the trials and trauma of the war which was followed by 2 yrs of her working and lobbying deligently to get better prison conditions for JD and eventually got him out on bail, having just had a new baby as the war was ending and sending four older children to Canada, fearing for them to live in the U S!!!
Haven’t read the Julia Grant section yet, but what I already know about her, she had a much nicer and easier life than Varina.
Do any of you who have ipads find that after a some time the touch screen takes more pressure than orginally? My spacebar is much less sensitive than when I had first had it. Actually, I’m trying to discern if the screen is not working as well, or if my touch is not as strong.......could be. ...
Jean
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Just started reading The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic by Mike Duncan. It covers the period between 146 and 78 BC and the events leading up to the more well known (more widely covered) personalities and events of the last years of the Republic.
Trivia bit: Cicero and Pompey the Great were born the same year (106BC), while Julius Caesar was born in 100BC. I didn't realize that Pompey and Cicero were the same age.
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This could be interesting: The Library Book by Susan Orlean. To be released on October 16, it is about the 1986 unsolved Los Angeles Public Library fire, called the most damaging library fire in US history.
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Frybabe,
Oh, I would love to know more about that one. 8)
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I've just started reading FEAR. How much can I believe? The president, it seems to me, is the voice crying in the wilderness.
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Jonathan in these parts there are a lot of damaged and crying trees - fear holds no candle to reality
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i’m reading “Louisa” about Louisa Adams, wife of John Quincy Adams, by Louisa Thomas. It’s very good reading. She’s a very interesting person and there is quite a lot of evidence that JQA would not have been president without her social skills, even though he was probably the most prepared to be president, of any, maybe before or since. JQ was as pompous and arrogant as his father. So many president’s wives were so important in their husband’s political career, we just don’t know about them. Of course, Louisa follows the famous Dolley Madison. Maybe Louisa learned from Dolley, as well as from her mother-in-law. I haven’t gotten that far into the book yet.
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There are so many good books out there, aren't there? The one you are reading, Mabel, sounds interesting.
Right now my nonfiction book is "Chicago Yippie! '68" written by a man who was in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic Convention. He was just a teen, 17, and originally went down to Lincoln Park for the music that was supposed to be performed. He thought it was an anti-war music festival, but there was little music. He got pulled into some of the protests. It's an interesting perspective of that turbulent time, with many pictures and memories, his and others who contributed to the book. It's slow going, though, as I started it before August, thinking I'd be reading what happened right during the 50-year anniversary, but here I am, still reading.
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Jonathan, let us know how you like your book Fear..... a voice crying in the wilderness. I just spent a day at one of our local parks yesterday, and I was in awe at how many trees were lined up together. I imagined myself in the midst of them trying to yell for help. Isn't that funny? A picture is worth a thousand words....
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45046207_10217956882937060_1314352248473518080_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=09b6cc1c08435de20e674a3ebab78155&oe=5C470C98)
Jean, As Mark Twain said, "Behind every successful man, there is a woman__" I love reading about the First Ladies in the White House. Wouldn't it be a great idea to have a book discussion on them?
Frybabe, A Quantum cat!!! Now that conjures up a few images. :o
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I woule love to read about First Ladies. The hardest part would be choosing which ones to read. Of course Carl Anthony has written two volumes that include all of them. Vol 1 is 1781- 1960 and the second volume is 1961 - 1990. They take us up to Barbara Bush.
Jean
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I found these books on Thriftbooks and am going to purchase them. There is also a book by Susan Swain that I am interested in that take us up to Michelle Obama.
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Bellamarie, I'm glad you asked. FEAR is an absorbing book. But then Bob Woodward is such a keen observer of presidential politics. His book, no doubt, will become part of the history of the times. What do trees have to do with it? I liked the photograph you found on your walk in the woods. But why the cry for help? You've been reading Dante, haven't you, the Inferno:
'I woke to find myself in a dark wood...this wood of wilderness, savage and stubborn...a bitter place!'
Can it be that President Trump will manage to drain the swamp only to find himself in the dark wood?
I have just the book on women in politics: Affairs of State, by Gil Troy...'the biographies of ten presidential marriages from the Trumans to the Clintons'. Bess, Mamie, Jackie, Betty, Nancy, Hillary, Lady Bird, whom have I missed? They were all more than First Ladies.
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Jonathan the cry for help in the trees was me imagining getting lost in the maze. No Dante.
As for Bob Woodward, I thought he and Carl Bernstein were fantastic journalists back in the days of Watergate, but Woodward has become so politically biased, and hates Trump, that I would caution in how much of his book to believe. I watch him on TV commentating, and Bernstein on CNN, and it saddens me to see such bias after they were such great investigative reporters back in the days.
I'm all for draining the swamp, it's long over due, and I think our president will find more sunshine than darkness in doing so. The American people are tired of the establishment's self serving, good ole boys behavior. I am not a Republican or Democrat, I am an Independent who is happy to have the change. Woodward says in his book Trump almost got us into war with North Korea, yet look who is the first American President to meet with their leader Kim Jong-un, and make headway to disarming nuclear weapons.
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Yes, I too thought Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein were fantastic journalists back in the days of Watergate - since, Bob Woodward has become a crotchety old man full of his own self importance where as, Carl Bernstein has the good sense to tackle his retirement - all these political analysts writing about a businessman is sad if not funny. None of them have ever been in, much less worked in a commercial real estate office to know this president is typical of a successful commercial broker who gets things done but comes across as a big blow heart - they are measuring his appearance and way of work to how politicians play the game and unfortunately the political game only allows them to get half as much done. Ah so...
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Thanks for the heads up on the bias in the book. I'll watch for it. I'm finding the book very informative. And there's such a fine picture of the author on the dust jacket, that I have a hard time seeing him as a crotchety old man. Rather more like a benign, kindly, elderly Benjamin Franklin in Paris. I give the President a lot of points for trying. Despite his style, there's change in the air. Korea is a good example. We're seeing the end of the war. North and South are considering reunification. But rumour has it that New York and/or California may secede. Steve Bannon is in town tonight, engaging in a debate with David Frum (speech writer to George Bush's talk to the nation about going to war in Iraq) "Be it resolved, the future of Western politics is populist, not liberal."
Time for a break. I've found an international anthology of gypsy stories on my shelves, including Ernest Hemingway's Finito. I think there may be a bullfight in this one.
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Jonathan, I am a political junkie. I follow everything possible, and I pretty much know the party each of the stations and their commentators are affiliated with. The lengths they are willing to go to in efforts to either impeach or discredit this president is shameful. The reason why the president was elected and will very likely get elected for a second term is partly due to his "style." Americans are fed up with the polite politicians who say what they think we want to hear in order to get elected and then serve their own lobbyists, and self agendas. Trump can't be put in a box and handled by the media or anyone else. We were ready for someone like him, in spite of his brash, sometimes crude comments. I'm not fond of his tweets at times, but I must say I LOVE how he has gone after the media and these news programs who purposely lie about him and show absolute hatred toward him. I was just hearing the other day how other presidents feuded with the press. One thing I can say for certain, Trump like other presidents have from day one "used" the press to his advantage. He has dominated attention from the press from the day he announced his intention to run for the presidency. Good or bad, like a misbehaved child, he gets the attention he demands.
Check out this:
https://www.history.com/news/presidents-relationship-with-press
Another thing I was listening to the other day was all the past presidents who were having prostitutes brought into the White House, having affairs and parties with their wives asleep upstairs. Bad behavior is not something Trump brought to the White House, he's just the one the media has decided target and make it look like his behavior is the worst ever. I still cringe imagining old LBJ having his ladies of the night brought into the White House while Lady Bird was asleep.
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Ohhhhh, didn't know about LBJ's little trysts.
I recently started the audio book version of Adrian Goldsworthy's Augustus. I would have preferred print, but I have just about run out of room on my shelves and I couldn't resist the Audible price. Goldsworthy is one of my current favorite historians along with Mary Beard.
One problem with audio books for non-fiction is that it is difficult to go back and double-check something you read earlier (is there a way to bookmark stuff in audio books? Hmm! will have to investigate). The other is that you miss out on all the photos, maps and illustrations in print.
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Agree frybabe - going back is a challenge because too often when you read something you do not realize later it is going to be something to double check and so even highlighting is nice but I never know what to highlight for future reading - I only highlight because I have a reaction to a phrase or few sentences.
Hadn't realized but I guess our phone numbers are charted by party headquarters - my phone was ringing off the hook - at least 7 or 8 calls a day about voting - most of the time I just let my phone ring - I've it set to ring 3 times and then my voice message that says to leave a message and I will get back as soon as I can - well no message from those calling about voting or any robo calls which was the original reason I was no longer answering the phone - but the annoyance of that phone ringing all hours of the day and night - they were calling here as late as 11: at night and as early as 6:30 in the morning - well I voted the other day - I think it was Wednesday - and ALL voting type phone calls stopped - peculiarly interesting - not even any over this weekend - somehow my voting stopped the calls - peculiarly interesting...
Found this on Amazon - unfortunately no used copies or Kindle copy available - but reading the excerpts I was surprised to see how much of the book is available - it appears the entire book except the first two chapters on online as a look see...
Voting and Vote-Getting in American History by Robert J. Dinkin -
Seems our early voters were swayed by parades and banners etc. and the idea of actually explaining issues was not a part of voting til the very late 1800s and then issues became more involved and folks had to be educated on things like Tariffs. I'm thinking that is what we need now, any explaining is so one sided from that parties point of view we are not really given a chance to sort out the pluses and minuses or trade offs much less the purpose of various legislature and who is affected. All you hear is those who see it as a negative give you every which way why it should not take place, which often has more to do with agreeing or not with a party who wants power and therefore, they will agree or disagree with anything that helps them attain power positions.
Now here is a winner - two books absolutely free for your Kindle on Amazon - I downloaded both - catch that there are two separate authors for each edition.
Building the American Republic, Volume 1: A Narrative History to 1877 by Harry L. Watson
Building the American Republic, Volume 2: A Narrative History from 1877 by Jane Dailey
I'd forgotten that property ownership was a must to be allowed to vote during our early history till I saw this - do not think I will buy it but it was a good reminder: Removal of the Property Qualification for Voting in the United States: Strategy and Suffrage (Routledge Research in American Politics and Governance) by Justin Moeller and Ronald F. King
So that is how women and the majority of blacks were excluded from voting - never put that together.
And evidently No political party has every won an electoral majority on a program offering a socialist transformation of society. The authors explain why. Explained and laid out in: Paper Stones: A History of Electoral Socialism – November 1, 1986 by Adam Przeworski (Author), John Sprague (Author)
Ha get this - the price of a new copy $3,053.01
Golly there is so much on Constitutional Law - fascinating -
Well I did it - was not going to add another book and could not pass up finding out more about Constitutional Law - Amazon and the Kindle make it too easy - a press of the button and I've now downloaded: A Short and Happy Guide to Constitutional Law (Short and Happy Series) by Mark Alexander - had no idea that Constitutional law was a separate study - I thought all law was as a result of our Constitution and therefore, it was the basis for all study - I guess in a way but it evidently Constitutional Law is a study of its own. The titles of information listed in the index sound interesting - let's see how these titles relate to our current national state of affairs. I wonder if there is anything said in our Constitution about trade. Since I learned that Trade is one of a nation's biggest sources of revenue I'm really curious to learn how that works.
Did you know that there is such a thing as, Gender Equality & Trade Policy - had no clue - Evidently issues like: Gender Equality in the Context of Globalization, Trade Liberalization and the UN Development Agenda, Gender Perspectives in Trade Policy, Effects of Trade on Gender Equality in Labour Markets and Small-scale Enterprises, Trade, Agriculture, Food Security and Gender Equality, The Global Economic Crisis and its Impact on Trade and Gender Equality, Implementing Gender- Responsive Trade Policies: Obstacles and Good Practices are areas of discussion at the UN. Wow...
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/feature/trade/The-Way-Forward.html
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/free-trade-or-womens-rights
Big question here - the more I'm reading on these various site the more I can see the benefit for those nations with a history of poor representation allowed for women and the limited economic benefits for women - however, what I also see is, in order to raise these women it appears, especially by the plans and assistance of the World Trade Organization, a flattening economic advancement for women who have enjoyed the economic advantages and more gender equality then they had during previous decades. Globalism has its feet in the door here and that is a plan for the money powers of the world to be the total power, overpowering national Constitutions and, a power in place without people participation through elections - hmmm there must be a way to raise the level of gender equality without depending on organizations like the WTO. Looks like lots to read here...
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An interesting link that...presidents and the press. It's sent me back to my TBR shelf, to a president who didn't make it to the list. The book is Lincoln And The Power Of The Press By Harold Holzer. 2014.
From the flap: 'But, as the nation was tearing itself apart, Lincoln authorized the most widespread censorship in the nation's history, closing down papers that were "disloyal," even jailing or exiling editors who opposed enlistment or sympathized with secession. The official telegraph, the new invention that made possible instant reporting from the battlefield, was moved to the office of the secretary of war to deny access to newsmen.'
As presidents go, how does Preident Trump fit in?To my mind he has something of both Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln. Woodward has Trump calling in four soldiers to brief him on the fighting in Afghanistan, as Lincoln did in the Civil War. And like Roosevelt, Trump likes to rise to the occasion.
Don't be to hard on 'old LBJ'. He needed sex as a stimilus. Lady Bird needed a good night's rest.
'Trump can't be put in a box.' I fear he may put himself into the box. As he seems to with his policy regarding the caravan of people walking to the U.S. border. Why not infiltrate them and persuade them to turn around and take back their country? Helping them to do it would get a lot of support around the world. Perhaps even solve the worldwide refugee problem.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...presidential/press controversy sells newspapers and 'gets the president the attention he demands.'
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Jonathan at the risk of turning this into a political discussion I need to share, your observation needs some updating - he had infiltrated the caravan and there was a lot of infighting with about half either turning around or taking Mexico's offer of jobs and housing - looked calmer for a few days except what the press was dragging back into the news that was all older news and repeats of their storming the gates so to speak when they got to Mexico but, a new kink today - seems out of no where scores and scores, transported by trucks, joined what was left of the 7000 (about half) so now the so called caravan has swelled to 10,000.
Think about it - Thousands of Honduran's decide to walk 1,500 miles at the same time. Over 4000 buy new back-pack, many get new cell phones, they arrange for food for 14,000 meals every day for 2 months, get money for travel expenses, have water for 7,000 every day for 60 days, get directions for the best route, have extra clothes and sanitary items, have medical care available, prepare for rain with tarps, sleeping bags and some tents, have new tennis shoes as flip flops wear out, although poor, push new, just under $400 baby strollers, as these inexperienced hikers attempt to cover 25 miles a day in order to arrive in time for our election. Since the caravan cannot keep that pace they pay for and hire trucks and buses to assure the timing of the journey - logic tells anyone this is a planned and paid for operation - and then along the way we see them waving their flags from Honduras as well as chanting 'down with Trump' and now they have a law suite filed against Trump -
The international community are being sold a bill of goods and all they have to do is watch the photos streaming out of Mexico that shows all of this including the destruction to towns that the caravan passes through, leaving behind extra and soiled clothing, unopened packs of food along with the debris that is typical of a 1500 mile hike.
Where I was emotionally caught by the stories of the last group in the Spring this group is not fitting that scenario at all and now we understand a second wave has started their so called caravan and a third wave is being organized now in El Salvador - this is all orchestrated. Many think Soros is behind it but that is just speculation.
And yes, I agree Trump is much like Teddy Roosevelt with a bit of FDR thrown in and yes, I can see Lincoln in there with an overlay of General Patton but more, he is so far removed from the ways of a modern politician that most do not get past his demeanor.
I am a Dem and a 3rd generation Dem at that, I did not vote for him or Hillary - it was my first none Dem vote that I can remember - Since, I knew we have a president, like him or not, the practical thing in my mind was to read the books he has co-authored. Then I watched with such embarrassment the reactions by the Dems and Hillary so I too walked away - I thought they treated very badly Bernie Sanders but since, I see he has buckled and supports the current Dems - actually, the Dem Party is no longer the party I knew - they walked away from me...
Then I've been holding in a rage - for Ford to admit nothing happened at this party, it was all a lie and she never even met Kavanaugh after what she and the Dems put that family through - Kavanaugh's wife gets death threats, he could not bring his children to the remaining Congressional meetings plus hearing this about their father, Kavanaugh's mother and father in tears, he and his name dragged through mud - and then at the confirmation his wife is still upset - all this as a political game??!!?? Beyond my ability to forgive - despicable.
Again, I cannot say it often enough - to get a none emotional view of how these things can happen please read the book written by the Greek minister of Finance - Adults in the Room: My Battle with Europe's Deep Establishment by Yanis Varoufakis.
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'a planned and paid for operation...this is all orchestrated....'
Thanks, Barb. You've given me so much to think about. I'm surprised at my naivite. So it's all just a dirty trick. As well as the Ford accusation. I'm going to look for the Y. V. book.
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Barb, I agree with everything you had to say in your above post. I have never seen myself as a one party person, but I can tell you in the past, up through Bill Clinton, I have voted for the Democrat for president. But..... becoming more and more involved and informed, I can tell you I will NEVER vote for another Democrat or Socialist. They have chosen to make hatred and divisiveness their agenda. I have heard many Democrats say the exact same thing you have.... " the Dem Party is no longer the party I knew - they walked away from me... " Bernie did cave, he ended up with two new million dollar homes as he bowed out and cowed down to make a clear path for Hillary. Just as Hillary bowed out and cowed down when she met with Obama and Feinstein, and then chose to take a hefty amount to pay off her campaign debt, and clear the path for Obama. Believe it or not, my hubby and I were actually active making robo calls FOR Hillary against Obama. I was a member of a PAC to help get her elected back then. Today, I can honestly say, I am thrilled she never got the nomination, and Obama did, and I am glad she did not become President of the United States. In my own personal opinion, with a ton of facts to back it up, she and Bill Clinton have used their power of position to make themselves millionaires. He used his foundation for their own personal gain, and their daughter Chelsea has become just as involved as the two of them. I suspect they actually imagined her in the future becoming politically involved, possibly climbing the ladder to run for positions. I'll take Trump any day over them.
Yes, the caravan is a highly political, organized, funded ploy, using the desperateness of these Hondurans and others. Sadly, the women and children are put in the front lines to shield the ninety-five percent of healthy young to middle age males. Trump is not ignorant, he sees it for what it is..... an invasion into our country, to cause an uprising and unrest because the Democrats have no policies to run on, so they continue to create situations so they can blame this president, just as the Kavannaugh opposition was meant to be. Their timing is what always gives them away. When will they realize with social media, Trump's tweets, and thank goodness for Fox News, their shenanigans are all for naught. Americans have awoken, and refuse to allow this to go unanswered. The media be it newspapers, TV programs, magazines, talk shows, late night comedy shows, and even award shows, have all been exposed for the bias and hatred they represent. The drop in viewers tuning in has drastically dropped, and yet they continue to push their agenda.
Jonathan, I just was listening to Levin talk about Lincoln the other day, and he said pretty much what you posted. I don't see Trump "in a box." I see him "in a White House." Trump is clearly going on with his oath of office, and to the United States, refusing to let these childish, immature, hateful op posers deter him from what he feels is in the best interest of this country, while upholding the Constitution of the United States. I voted for him, and will again in 2020, if he continues to Make America Great Again.... which he has been doing for the past two years. The numbers don't lie, we are at record highs in all the areas that matter to the average American. The Dems can't come up with any policies to beat what he has accomplished so far, so they incite hate and other tactics to disrupt and distract.
Barb, thank for the recommendation of the book, I will check it out.
No matter what your affiliation is..... VOTE!!! You can not sit out, and then complain about the results. Your voice IS on your ballot, no matter what the outcome brings.
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Here of late many of us wonder about the role of the news media - are they reporting or manipulating attitudes - many books written and some movies available usually about editors and reporters, their work, viewpoint and their integrity - so we have that view of the news media with expectations of impartial reporting as the reporters and editors goal.
After seeing this movie, I had not read the book, I'm questioning our trust and our, to use Jonathan's word, naivete over the real power of the news organizations.
It appears they are either partners with or in control of the CIA and its equivalent in Canada. Which may even included other nation's intelligence and national policing community - makes me see in a new light why the major news organizations are so heavily invested in reporting about the murder of a foreign reporter, Khashoggi. There have been lots of reporters killed in the past few years, mostly in the middle east plus, Khashoggi was not a US citizen - Is his murder opening Pandora's box of the media's relationship with the intelligence community in some way?
All this did not puzzle me till I saw the Christoper Plummer movie "from Ian Adams' book of the same name, "Agent of Influence" A very good movie available free with Amazon Prime, based on a real story of the intrigue surrounding the mysterious death of one of Canada's most accomplished foreign diplomats, John Watkins."
The role of an American News organization is startling - they seem to have planned this man's death without even confiding with the President and, they could expect the CIA to follow their demands. Amazing - however this is above the level of any department editor or reporter. Is this atypical I wonder - if it happened once, as this almost documentary shows then, it is not out of the ballpark to assume it happens - how often, who knows - but it sure puts a different viewpoint on the current news reporting slant by many news organizations. And it is even easier now to arrange and re-arrange national and international politics with only 6 major news organizations in this country.
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Your posts are scintillating. Democracy is alive and well in America.
'listening to Levin talk about Lincoln'
Is that the senator I met on Capitol Hill many years ago? It was in the eighties. President Reagan was in Moscow and had just concluded an arms deal with the Russians. The senator and some colleagues were on the lawn commenting on its significance.
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Not so sure he was a senator but I do know this:
Mark Levin hosts FOX News Channel's "Life, Liberty and Levin." The program aims to explore the fundamental values and principles of American society, politics, culture, and current events and the impact that these things have on the nation's future and the everyday lives of the citizens. Levin also hosts "The Mark Levin Show," and prior to joining FOX, he served as an adviser to some of President Ronald Reagan's cabinet members.
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Jonathan I think you may be talking about Carl Milton Levin (born June 28, 1934) an American attorney and retired politician who served as a United States Senator from Michigan from 1979 - 2015.
Bellamarie is talking about Mark Reed Levin (born September 21, 1957) is an American lawyer, author, and radio personality. He is the host of syndicated radio show The Mark Levin Show, as well as Life, Liberty & Levin on Fox News. Levin worked in the administration of President Ronald Reagan and was a chief of staff for Attorney General Edwin Meese. He is chairman of the Landmark Legal Foundation, has authored seven books, and contributes commentary to various media outlets such as National Review Online. On September 1, 2015, Levin became Editor-in-Chief of Conservative Review
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Thanks for the information on the Levins...both Mark and Carl.
Congratulations on the electoral wisdom when put to a vote. Pretty smart decision.
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Seems each party is declaring a victory, the Dems got the house back, and the Republican held the Senate, and picked up a few more seats. Now, just if they would work together for the greater good of this country. Ho Hummmm....
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Can't resist posting this - an account of wigmaking and barbering in 18th Century Williamsburg.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/58384
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I love villages. I think of Williamsburg as a village. I have always wanted to visit Williamsburg, Va. I suppose there were many people who needed wigs during that time. Oh, and let's not forget the candlemaker. Snap, Snap of the fingers, I'm there.
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TY Frybabe - that was interesting, I love Gutenburg!
Yes, Hats, Williamsburg is a fun and informative place to visit. I would love to go at Christmas.......someday........ Jean
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I finally finished The Black Count by Tom Reiss. The book wasn't as long as I expected. It finished at about 66% of the total number of pages; the rest was footnotes, bibliography and a rather long acknowledgement. The author sure did a heck of a lot of research. One of my take-aways from the book if that I like Napoleon even less than I ever did before. According to the author, Napoleon was supported by large land owners and slave holders. He paid them back by pretty much rescinding France's anti-slavery and equal equality laws, and stripped black officers of their positions while other freedmen were relegated to positions of servitude. I think I remember reading that some freedmen were even sold back into slavery.
Alexander Dumas father was a General, was captured and spent about 18 months in captivity in Italy. When he was finally released, the new laws were in effect. He never received his back pay nor his pension and his requests to be put back into military service were ignored. Napoleon apparently expressly told his bureaucratic underlings they were to ignore any correspondence from him. Napoleon did not like General Dumas but I didn't quite grasp why exactly. It seemed mostly like a jealousy thing to me. The adventures and trials General Dumas went through had a huge influence on his son's writing.
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Here is another short, but very interesting find in Project Gutenberg, The Apothecary in Eighteenth Century Williamsburg by Thomas Ford. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/58490
This one I have downloaded. It includes plenty of illustrations, and includes laws applying to the profession, at least one example of the fees charged, and a list of practitioners among other things.
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I started The Woman Who Smashed Codes by Jason Fagone, had to return it to the library but plan to get it again after New Year's. It's a fascinating story about a woman who decrypted codes in WWI and into WWII. I was listening to an audiobook, and the reader was a little too dramatic, so I'm hoping to get a hard copy of the book to finish it.
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For anyone interested in post Civil War history and particularly Washington, DC, I found this book of letters written by a newspaper correspondent. The Olivia Letters by Emily Edson Briggs http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/58604 The writing is a bit "stuffy" for my taste.
Emily Edson Briggs was one of the first female correspondents in Washington, DC and was one of the first to be admitted to the Congressional press galleries. Her columns, mostly categorized as social commentary, were written for the female audience. http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2016/07/emily-edson-briggs.html
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I was listening to an audiobook, and the reader was a little too dramatic, so I'm hoping to get a hard copy of the book to finish it.
Nlhome and Frybabe, do you often find audiobooks overdramatic? I have this problem a lot with things read aloud. Partly I think it's because whenever I read something I hear it in my mind too, and my voice is rather understated.
Frybabe, as a DC native I would find the Olivia Letters interesting indeed. As a small child I lived near Fort Stevens, now a little park, where Lincoln got his hat shot off while visiting the troops. (A soldier pulled him down, saying something like "get down, you idiot"). The bank I used until it was bought out by one of the big players had been Lincoln's bank, and my engagement ring came from the jeweler that used to clean Lincoln's watch.
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PatH, I haven't noticed a lot of overly dramatic voices in the audiobooks I've listened to, but this particular one was very noticeable. Sometimes I just don't like the reader. I tried twice to listen to Y is for Yesterday but the reader's voice distracted from the story. I listened to an Ian Rankin (Rebus) book and had to slow it down because of the accent, but that was fun to listen to. And some are boring.
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Wow Pat you are full of historical associations - how wonderful is that - not much along those lines in Portland or Seattle, some in California but not like the east coast -
Frybabe can you actually get anything done while listening to a book read aloud - while driving I used to listen to books on tape and then later they were CDs but there was another part of my brain used and it kept me not only awake but actually more focused on the Road - many a trip on I20 or I10 got me through the dark listening to a book on tape. I have tried at home and I have to sit and listen - do not know why the difference so I wondered how you listen - completely or while doing something else.
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Barb, I usually just listen to the audio books when my eyes are two tired and unfocused to read, or when I am doing my jig puzzles. My sister and her husband, on the other hand, do most of their listening when they are in the car. Sue says when she tries it at home, she misses too much because of distractions or concentrating on housework, or she falls asleep while listening if not busy.
The things I miss by not using a physical book, especially non-fiction, are the photos, illustrations, maps and such, and being able to easily page back to find something you want to recheck. I don' even know if you can bookmark a page in an audio book. I don't think so. Maps and such, I can usually find on the net and print out if I want, but that lack of ability to find and reread some passage or other can be a big disadvantage. My main reason for trying Audiobooks is twofold: lack of space for the books, difficulty of holding large, heavy books out of the way of the inevitable furry lap attacks. Lucy particularly likes to get up as close to my face as possible.
PatH, although I was born in DC, we weren't there long. I spent the first 10 months in an apartment (don't know where), my first birthday was in a little house in Suitland, MD. The only recollection of that I have is the woods behind the house and the porch (which Mom claimed I headed for with my ears covered every time a plane came in or out of the airport), and then we moved for a year or so to Silver Springs, MD. That one I remember the outside of the house and the woods at the end of the street. We moved up to PA by the time I was five. I was still five when I began first grade. I think you were quite fortunate to have been raised in such a rich environment of history, parks, and museums all relatively close by.
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Frybabe, I totally agree with you about my good luck in growing up here. The Smithsonian dinosaurs were my friends, and the National Gallery of Art was my home turf. The music scene is good too, though New York probably still sneers at us.
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This is the opening paragraph of Canterbury (part of the Beautiful Britain series) by Gordon Home.
t was on April 24, 1538, that a writ of summons was sent forth in the name of Henry VIII., "To thee, Thomas Becket, some time Archbishop of Canterbury"-—who had then been dead for 368 years—-to appear within thirty days to answer to a charge of treason, contumacy, and rebellion against his sovereign lord, King Henry II. But the days passed, and no spirit having stirred the venerated bones of the wonder-working saint, on June 10 judgment was given in favour of Henry, and it was decreed that the Archbishop's bones were to be burnt, and his world-famous shrine overlaid with gold and sparkling with jewels was to be forfeited to the Crown. Further than this went the sentence, for Thomas of Canterbury was to be a saint no longer, and his name and memory were to be wiped out. The remains were not burned, but throughout the land every statue, wall-painting, and window to the said Thomas Becket was rigorously searched out and destroyed, and from every record his name was carefully erased. And so it came about that the year 1538 saw the last pilgrimage to the shrine of St. Thomas the Martyr.
Okay, I knew a little about Thomas Becket, but I didn't know way after his death Henry VIII tried him way after his death, convicted him, and then proceeded to wipe out his grave and confiscate what must have been a boon to his coffers as well as a blow to the Catholic Church.
Lots of lovely illustrations and two maps, one of Canterbury and on of the cathedral layout.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/13890
Oh, Oh! I must pass this on to my sister. My Mom's Mom was a Clapham. Mom had said that her family had come from just across the border in England, and in fact, there is a Clpaham Creek near the Welsh/English border. She had also said there was family in Yorkshire, though she never had any contact with them. Our Aunt TaBitha lived in London when we visited, but I have no idea if she came from a family branch that stayed in London. Mom never talked of a Clapham in London. Something to look into, isn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham_Sect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham I am still looking into how the original land came to be named Clapham, but it wasn't (and isn't still) uncommon to name a founding town or homestead after the family that began it all.
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(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/welcome_2.jpg)
TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK
What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?
Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.
Let's talk books!
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Frybabe, I didn't know that about Thomas Becket either. Amusing--sounds like something Henry would do.
Ancestor tracking can be fun. I once found an ancestor's revolutionary war uniform in a New England museum--had no idea it existed until I saw it.
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Frybabe- i also have trouble listening to books for the reasons you mentioned. If it’s an author or series I know, I’ve got a “voice” in my head as to what the characters sound like. If it is a new story to me, I often don’t like the emphasis, or drama, they put on words or sentences. And Pat, I too have an “understated” voice in my head, altho I hadn’t thought of it that way. 😊
Jean
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Jean, I am pretty picky about the narrators. My favorite narrator is Grover Gardner, followed by Ray Porter. Gardner is overall excellent and Porter is really, really good with the books that have characters who are fast with the quips/snide remarks/smarty-pants comments and such. Derrick Perkins does a good job with my ancient history non-fiction picks. Carlton Clifton does a lot of interesting history, but as good as his readings are, they come with music and sound effects which, for me, seems a bit much, as in annoying and distracting. A few of mine are group narrations, which as far as the samples go seem good. The Perdita Weeks did a great job of reading Circe, with a breathy, seductive voice that seems to fit the character very well. She is the only female narrator I like so far.
One narrator that I don't care for, sadly, is Wil Wheaton. You may recall him in Star Trek: Next Generation. Will is a friend of John Scalzi's and does the narration for his books. I find his readings kind of flat. I remember thinking his TV persona came off like he never knew quite what to do with himself. His readings give me that feeling too.
Some of my library are multiple character narrations and seem good as far as the samples show. I believe some of them are old live radio performances. Generally, the listening samples are enough for me to get an idea whether or not I will like the book or not. Having said all of that, I have to agree with you about listening to some of the books that I have already read. They often don't fit with my internal reading voice.
Anyway, I am getting quite a collection of audio-books and have only actually listened to less than a dozen so far, and most of them have been library borrows.
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I just picked up two AudioBook Great Courses on Physics for non-Physicists, one on Particle Physics and the other on Einstein's Relativity & the Quantum Revolution. I am supposed to have access to extra materials, but I haven't looked to see how i access them yet.
I've just started The Battle that Stopped Rome by Peter S. Wells which is about the massacre of three Legions of Roman troops at the Battle of Teutoburg Forrest.
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Physics on audiobooks. You're a brave woman, Frybabe.
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I’m reading Notorious RBG: the life and times if Ruth Bader Ginsburg. It’s a short, 175+ pages and interestingly done. They print some of her most important decisions and annotate on the side how a comment relates to her previous arguments or decisions. It’s rather fun. It also includes quite a lot of her personal life especially her relationship with Marty. Sounds like they had a wonderful marriage.
I'm reading it for a book discussion next week,I’ll be interested in the comments of others. I’d recommend it to anybody who would like to know about her. What a genius she is.
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PatH, George shuck his head at that too. It is a Great Courses thing and get me access to additional materials. I have been looking at some of the YouTube SciShow programs, but most of it seems to require some knowledge of higher order mathematics. I got lost on imaginary numbers in algebra, in college. I am hoping these are a little more basic. I am a leg up on only electricity and magnetism, because of my early interest in HeathKits and Ham Radio. This is my summer project after Latin class ends for the summer.
Mabel, my sister read RGB a while back and has seen a movie presentation of it and has high praises for her.
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Frybabe, I didn't know you were a Heathkit maker too. I assembled a lot of them in my time, both for our home hi-fi systems and also at work in the lab. The fussy, picky attention to detail needed just suits my fussy picky personality. I learned a neat trick for keeping my co-workers from stealing my soldering iron. I found one with a pastel baby-blue handle--identical to the ones that kept disappearing, but it always came back. None of the men could stand the color.
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Mabel, you've convinced me to read RBG. She's so fantastic. Did you know she took part in an opera here a few years ago? It was a non-vocal walk-on part, I think in The Marriage of Figaro. Needless to say, she got a huge ovation.
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I didn't know about RBG's walk on part. I would love to learn about Opera. Maybe there is a Dummies book or Idiot's book for a person who knows almost nothing.
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Hats, I think I have a couple of books that would fit the bill. They are not "Dummies" books. I can't locate them right at this moment, as they are with a million other books in my "designated Junk room". I think one might be called Opera for Beginners. I have an appt. this morning, and can't go looking today, but when I find them, I will certainly be glad to pass on the titles! The best thing that ever happened to Opera was when they started using the closed caption translations on the screen. The Met does this, and I'm sure most local opera companies do also. My most favorite opera is "Carmen" with everything else in close second! Does a theatre near you have the Live in HD at the Met programs? Oh, the beauty of the music combined with the costumes, scenery and those beautiful voices!
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The best thing that ever happened to Opera was when they started using the closed caption translations on the screen. The Met does this, and I'm sure most local opera companies do also.
You're so right, Tomereader. It makes a huge difference to know exactly what the singers are saying. Carmen is one of my favorites too. Have you ever heard the recording of Jessye Norman singing it? Her gorgeous rich, warm voice is perfect for the part.
You know more than you realize, hats. There's a continuous line stretching from musicals to light opera to the real heavy stuff, and you're already somewhere along it. It's really fun to learn more.
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PatH, I've never heard Jesse Norman sing Carmen, I'll bet it's beautiful. However, I saw the Met Live in HD performance with Elina Garanca, and she is awesome. Notes that you wouldn't believe any human voice could sing. I got chills, goose bumps, and nearly fell out of my seat it was so gorgeous. Good actress along with the singing!
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Tomereader1 and PatH, That's what I need is a "junk room." Very long ago I did see Dorothy Dandridge and Harry Belafonte in the movie Carmen. I didn't realize it was Opera. What I did know is that the songs were emotional. Each one moved me in a different way. Now that both of you have helped my memory bank lighten up I remember hearing parts of Madame Butterfly. I cried only a few month ago after hearing a part on YouTube. I would have to ask around to find out about the Met programs in our town.
PatH, I have heard Jessye Norman's beautiful voice. That reminds me to get her autobiography or biography from our library. Thank you both for keeping my interest stirred up. Yes, I love the costumes too. Maybe one day I will see a performance on stage. My oldest son has a great love for Classical music and Opera.
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I doubt that I will read this, but we've talked about the topic of female emancipation here before, so I am giving anyone interested in the subject to a book titled Mary Wollstonecraft and the Beginnings of Female Emancipation in France and England. by Jacob Bouten. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/59448
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I probably won't read it either, but the subject is quite interesting--her unconventional life constrained by what a woman could and couldn't manage to do at that time.
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PatH, I love your memory of finding the Revolutionary War uniform of a family member. I can't imagine finding such a treasure.
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Now listening to Stealth War: How China Took Over While America's Elite Slept by Brigadier General (Ret) Robert Spalding. https://books.google.com/books/about/Stealth_War.html?id=xRaZDwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description It is a bit alarming, but as I listen, I realized that I came to the same or similar conclusions he did in chapter 2 of the book when I was reading volume 1 of Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
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Along those lines frybabe you may find worth reading these two books
Asia's Cauldron: The South China Sea and the End of a Stable Pacific by Robert D. Kaplan
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812994329/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Most interesting is the background of each nation involved that borders the South China Sea - I did not know that for thousands of years Viet Nam was always split in two, culturally and politically with the north always having close ties to China where the south has a rich culture and different artistic expression then the north.
China's Second Continent: How a Million Migrants Are Building a New Empire in Africa by Howard W. French
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307946657/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
How China is taking over in such a different way than how we influence and have our fingerprints all over a nation. Poor and low Middle Class Farmers who would have nothing in China emigrate and farm large tracts of land happy as can be for the opportunity. And China builds big national enterprises like dams and such then gives them to the nation but leaves some of their people there to help run things and train the locals which endears China to the nation without handing annual pots of money the way we do with our foreign aide.
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Remember our discussion of the Silk Road? I ran across this video this morning showing photos of Samarkand in 1911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByPWEwhi8OU
I've put Kaplan's book on my wish list. I want this one in hardcover. I do love maps. I'll pass on French's book for now.
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Interesting - thanks frybabe - I check out daily Radio Free Europe for my news and they often have current photos of the goings on in places like Samarkand or Uzbek or Tajikistan - all places we read about in the Silk Road - the current photos do not look that much different then these that are over 100 years old. From what I pick up the landscape makes it difficult for even roads to be built along with monsoons that the water washes away most new construction. Well finally the sun here today - we'll be back into the 70s next week and I can finally stop unconsciously hunching my shoulders -
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I am back to listening to Brigadier General (Ret.) Robert Spalding's book, Stealth War: How China Took Over While America's Elite Slept. Disturbing stuff. Having read some of how economics and trade shaped the ancient world and still shape it today, what is in this book is something of a warning. Some of the latest chapters I read discuss the Chinese push to put up super fast G5 networks and acquire telecom companies worldwide, the fact that parts for critical military equipment is manufactured and imported from China, coercing Radio Free American to modify an interview and then fire the reporter so as not to upset the Chinese government, the problem of Chinese students being coerced and encouraged to steal research info and told not to get too chummy with US students right here in the US, and schools that have Confucius Studies centers (88 as of December 2019, although some are soon closing) being "encouraged" to cancel opposition speakers as well as lack of transparency of the centers. This article doesn't state the problem of the cultural centers quite as alarmingly as Spalding does. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/27/china-college-confucius-institutes-1221768 He hasn't even touched on the Chinese military build up yet. Alarmist as the book may be, it is worth noting that the Chinese government has a long-term, multi-pronged plan to become the dominant world economic and military power. Some of it is publicly stated, while some is not.
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I have just read "Dream of Rome" by Boris Johnson. It is an interesting take on the first "European Union", i.e. the Roman Empire. He writes very well. I would recommend it. He thinks Rome succeeded where later efforts have faltered and discusses why. Of course the unifying character of the common language, Latin, was key.
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Hi, jep142, and welcome to the civilian side of the website. I had no idea Johnson had written any books, and that one sounds like a really good read. I see he's written other books too.
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I don't recall when there have been so many books out on the political scene...current and historical. I've bought one current one and am working my way through it.
I didn't realize Boris Johnson was born in NYC and was a former journalist.
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Another "read" that might be of interest. "Ad Infinitum, a Biography of Latin" by Nicholas Ostler. No politics here, just history and discussion about the origins and changes that have occurred in the Latin language. A bit heavy but I enjoyed it.
As for Boris Johnson, I listened to a debate on Youtube between him and Mary Beard about which was more influential, classical Greece or Rome. In that debate, he took Greece. In the end Beard prevailed with the audience (Oxford or Cambridge, I don't recall) but he can certainly hold his own as a classical scholar.
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I ordered the book (used) when you first mentioned it jepl42 however, it still has not arrived - it is coming from Britain and the blurb said it would be the end of March - I too was astonished to see the vast number of books who has written - never would have guessed. Now it makes sense why he has the respect of his voters other than just his politics.
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Another subject matter but there will be a lecture tomorrow at UT by this author and his book - never think of these things till it comes up
Here is the blurb
“What in heaven’s name is the reason that the sun never sets on the empire of the dandelion?” Al Crosby answered this question in his book Ecological Imperialism.
As Europeans colonized the globe from the 1400s onwards, they transformed the biology of the Earth as well. This transformation was a two-way exchange as Europeans carried with them domesticated plant and animal species which flourished in the lands of the “New World” and Europeans returned to the “Old World” with flora and fauna that filled collections and transformed agriculture and ecology at home.
This lecture will focus on the “scientific travelers” who practiced natural history for economic gain and for expanding “scientific” knowledge of the new lands in America and beyond before Humboldt’s epic journey which set a new standard for collecting, measuring, and comprehending the geography of nature in the New World.
Here is a fabulous YouTube short on Humboldt and what he accomplished - amazing - I had no idea...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMo7teauU9E
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Although it does not fit properly in this section, "Measuring the World" by Daniel Kehlmann is a historical novel about the relationship between, and the work of, Gauss and Humbolt. A good read, in any case.
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Goodness - one bit of new information leads to another and another - of course had to find the book you suggested jepl42, Measuring the World - both Gauss and Humbolt are Germans and it sounds like both have very opposite personalities. Intriguing is the bit about how after they meet they are embroiled in German politics which as I recall turned brother against brother as Germany reinvented itself after Napoleon. This I am anxious to read more about since whatever side my Great Grandfather was on he had to flee Germany and came to America.
Then I'm on the Amazon page where the list of published books with that title are included plus, the list always includes a few more that are close in subject matter or a near title - result, I find this little gem, The Measure of All Things: The Seven-Year Odyssey and Hidden Error That Transformed the World by Ken Alder. Now we have two Frenchmen measuring without traveling half way around the world to do it but, the big secret that continues to this day is there is an error that they alone knew about using the metric system.
Whow this error continues to this day - talk about a little tidbit, a come on, to read and find out what is this secret error and how does it affect all things mathematical or does it? or is it really just a marketing come on? Of course it is now on my reading list which gets longer rather than shorter with each book I finish. me oh my... and such is life...
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I have received and started to read "The Measure of All Things" by Adler and I regret to say than even though confined to my home and bored nearly out of my mind, I couldn't get into this book. It is agonizingly slow and after a few chapters, I simply didn't care. Too bad but I can not recommend it.
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Well, that's a disappointment, jep142. Thanks for the warning; I might have been tempted.
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I've been listening to Food: A Cultural History, a Great Courses lecture presented by Professor Ken Albala who is a Professor of History at the University of the Pacific. Not only is it informative, it is entertaining. The lecturer obviously is passionate about his subject and is great fun to listen to. I never ran across Mr. Albala's books, but he has written at least fourteen and edited at least eleven. He also has a YouTube presence. I am going to watch some of these later. https://www.youtube.com/user/kalbala1/videos
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I am now listening to The Silk Roads: A New History of the World by Peter Frankopan. It is densely packed with a lot of information not directly related to the Silk Road. This is about the ideas and trade that used the Silk Road routes that spread them. Right now, Chapter 2 is about Christianity.
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I just downloaded several non-fiction books from FLP and bought another.
The Great Railway Bazaar: By Train Through Asia, a travelogue by Paul Theroux. There are several others of his that are in my Wish List.
The Last Mughal and The Anarchy: The East India Company, Corporate Violence, and the Pillage of an Empire , both by William Dalrymple who is a noted and award winning historian specializing in the area. He lives part of the year in Delhi.
I am still reading A Splendid Exchange: How Trade Shaped the World. I am about a third of the way through and into a chapter about the explorations to find a sea route to India and the East. Vasco de Gama is writ large in regards to the violent and ruthless treatment of Africans, Indians, and Muslims alike as he sailed into history. Seems de Gama was a pretty nasty guy. I'll have to stop for a while to read the two borrowed books before my time expires.
I hope I can keep all this straight what with the different eras but in the same general areas.
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I have just read a collection of essays by Thomas Sowell in a book titled, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". While not all of the essays will appeal, or perhaps even be acceptable, to all, I found his "The Real History of Slavery" both interesting and topical. I certainly learned many things I did not know. His "Black Education" is also a bit of an eye opener, giving some heartening success stories, something we need right now.
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Jep142, I had never heard of Thomas Sowell before reading your post and looking him up. He sounds really interesting, and very good with a pithy phrase. Is that the book of his you would recommend?
One of my daughters is an economist; just for fun I'll ask her what she thinks of him.
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Really, Pat? You never heard of Tom Sowell? I used to read his newspaper columns, along with Tom Wolfe, Art Buchwald and George Will.
Jepl42, a friend of mine has recommended I read both of the books you mentioned. I haven't yet. I do have his Economic Facts and Fallacies, also needing read.
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Another fun non-fiction book is "The Brendan Voyage" by Tim Severin. It is the tale of Severin's attempt to duplicate the voyage of St. Brendan's legendary sailing from Ireland to the New World in the sixth century. There is a detailed diary of St. Brendan's voyage and Severin tries to duplicate as best he can the technology St. Brendan used (including a leather boat). So the Irish were the first Europeans in the North America??? By several centuries!
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I will have to see if my library has a copy of The Brendan Voyage. Sounds interesting.
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Hi, jep142. It's good to see you back. That book sounds interesting. I have an interest in the Norse voyages to North America, but didn't know about St. Brendan. It's not too surprising that Europeans got there before the Norsemen, maybe more surprising that they managed to get back to tell the tale.
It would be fun to read the practical details of sailing that primitive boat. I hope he used modern navigation methods. Back then you had no way of measuring longitude, and latitude was somewhat crude. You filled in with a keen appreciation of weather and ocean fauna, so your directions could boil down to something like "go straight to where the whales are and turn left".
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He tried to not use any modern assists. The aim was to see if he could duplicate St. Brendan the Navigator using his text as the guide. It was fascinating both from the adventure side and the history angle. I tend to believe that the monks actually did it. Would love to hear other reactions.
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A few years ago I read the life of St. Brendan that included the journey - life was so different - I find very little about every aspect of life that was pre-planned - willy nilly at a young age children were sent to monasteries that were not much more than an enclave of stone huts and so much seemed to have happened based on dreams and premonitions or signs in nature. I doubt navigation tools would have helped - it seems they followed stars and signs till they bumped into someplace new to them where as those who traveled east and south, although sailing on wide rivers they had more of nature to suggest they were safe.
Sort of a wow moment when I realized my family who emigrated to the US before the Civil War all came on Sailing vessels - I never put that together and where navigation and shipping lanes were known still to be on a sailing vessel for days and from the few I was able to identify from records they were not the huge vessels but smaller with maybe 100 passengers. Amazing... and so to be on an unknown sea in a currach ---
oh just found a photo of Brendan's sailing currach
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Stbrendanscurrach.jpg)
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Now I'm even more impressed. Such a frail thing for such a long journey.
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Here is a real cold weather book:
"Ordeal by Hunger; the Story of the Donner Party"
It's not a terribly well written book but the story is compelling. These poor people did everything wrong you could think of and paid dearly for it. My sister and brother in law lived in Truckee, near Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and of course the story was big there. Now, near where these poor souls were starving to death are fancy ski resorts. There is a large statue in their memory built to the height of the snow in that terrible winter which was well over 20 feet.
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oh my - that was a story wasn't it - at least we never got that cold or without food - the sacrifices of those who settle this nation are extraordinary aren't they
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Where are you all? I miss your recommendations and comments.
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One of my latest reads was, "Conquistador; Hernan Cortes, King Montezuma, and the Last Stand of the Aztecs" by Buddy Levy. It was very interesting and I learned a lot but they were quite a despicable lot overall. It was certainly hard to root for anyone in this mess but I guess Cortes would get the most despicable prize (Although human sacrifice was the Aztecs' horrible contribution to the list of awfuls.) In spite of all this it seemed worthwhile to learn more about this and I would recommend it if you have the stomach for the realities it lays out.
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Hi jepl42. We've been mostly hanging out in the Library discussion or the Books and Books into Movies discussion lately.
I haven't gotten very interested in Central and South American history yet. My focus is mostly on Roman history, the time period and areas included in what is known as The Great Game era, and the rise and spread of the Central Asians (think Kublai and Genghis Khan, and the Huns), and very early Chinese history and tales.
My most recent non-fiction reads were The Crusades by Thomas Asbridge and Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford. Currently I am reading Gladius by Guy de la Bodoyere.