Talking Heads ~ Salt: You Can't Live Without It, Can You Live With It?

[BooksAdmin]

Talking Heads #8

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.

A two week  forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.

Our Eighth Selection is: Salt!

You can't live without it, but can you live with it? Salt of the earth, a man worth his salt...take what he says with a grain of salt…. below the salt at the table…throughout history salt has played an important part of every life.   .....Salary…..(from sal, salt, salarium, the  Roman soldier was paid money so he could buy salt). ......In 1924 Iodized salt saved lives when the addition of iodine to salt addressed  iodine deficiency related diseases

......The Salt March: In early April, 1930 Mahatma Gandhi, 61 years old, reached Dandi after walking 241 miles in 24 days. He then defied the law by making salt.

...... National Salt Reduction Initiative of 2010 seeks a crackdown on the salt added in restaurants and processed foods.

Don't eat salt, you say? Bet you do! Do you know where most of it lurks and that you can't taste it?

Do you know the recommended salt intake?

Have you looked at a can of tomato soup lately?

Too much fuss over nothing? Can't eat watermelon without salt?

Read the one page briefing  article in Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1975316,00.html Salt in US Food of April 5, 2010 and let's discuss: is this just another fuss over nothing or is there a hidden killer in our midst?

Let's discuss!.

[ginny]

Welcome to a strange sounding topic but it's suddenly in a lot of prominence due to the realization that  hidden salt in our food, in restaurants and in processed foods like TV dinners,  soups, etc.,  may provide us with more salt, even IF  we may not be able to taste it, than a bowl of salted peanuts.

Is this just another hysterical fad? Are "they" telling us what to eat again?  Do YOU like salt and eat a lot of it? What is the recommended salt intake for persons  per day and what would happen if we each took out one of those handy prepackaged meals or soups  and looked for the sodium content? (Try soup if you want a shock).

The new issue of Time Magazine has a very short very interesting article of some of the highlights of the history of salt, and the insidiousness of its prevalence in our food,  but there are a lot of things they might have included and didn't. What about those who brine a turkey?  One thing for sure: it's in everything!

Or is it?

Is this just another fad or  is it worth thinking about? Do YOU watch your salt or eat out with abandon? My doctor told me the restaurants don't care about your health, all they care about is trying to make the food taste good. Does food taste bad without it?  The heading (thanks to Pat for that beautiful arrangement) says it all.

You can't live without it and it's been the focus of some major events in history but can you live with it?  How much salt is too much? Does it affect you at ALL?

What about salt substitutes? Some people claim they are poison.

Let's discuss the newest health focus and one of the oldest: salt!

[mabel1015j]

I recently read Kurlansky's Salt, a World History  - or i read half of it, it got to be a little too much, but the beginning was interesting. Salt is so important to so many aspects of life, including our own, so having it available was very important and some communities had none and in other places towns grew up around salt mines, or salt ponds.

Interesting topic, Ginny............i'll be back after reading the article.......jean

[Frybabe]

Ahhhhhh, I lost my post. Oh, well.

I read Kurlansky's  book one or two years ago. More than you ever thought you wanted to know about salt, but really, really interesting most of the time.

I don't add salt to my cooking and try to buy products which are lower in salt. Just try finding something that is low salt, low fat and not full of sugar that still tastes decent and isn't way, way expensive.

Sea salt must be the in thing again. George has been making fun of it the last several days. My current favorite potato chip is made with sunflower oil and sea salt.


PS: I can't get to the article. I get an error message, article not found.

[ginny]

Oh you're right! Thank you for mentioning it, Frybabe, here's the article:; http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1975316,00.html

Must have cut something off the one in the heading I'll fix it now.

I've not even heard of that book, Jean,  and Frybabe,  did you finish it Frybabe?

I forgot about salt mines!

[ginny]

Hah! The article online leaves off this info running down the right side, while including some interesting sub articles including one on there being so much fat in food it's like cocaine according to one doctor. I do think that eating foods high in fat produces a craving for more (or if I'm any judge)

But here's what's left out:

1948:  Lithium chloride is introduced as a salt substitute: the following year the FDA calls it a "dangerous poison."

1970's: Campbell's introduces a no salt added soup. It flops.

1978: The Center for Science in the Public Interest dubs salt "the deadly white powder you already snort."

1982: Some 40 percent of Americans report trying to cut back on salt.

2010: The New York  City-led National Salt Reduction Initiative launches a campaign to crack down on salt in restaurants and packaged food.

[JoanK]

I don't use any salt in cooking or at the table, and buy low salt when easily available. But I eat enough commercial products and eat out enough, I probably get as muchsalt as I need and then some. When you first start eating food with no salt, it does taste bad -- flat. But once you're used to it it tastes better. I now can't eat some restaurant and commercial foods (especially soups: they taste like pure salt to me.

Yesterday, there was a local program about Death Valley. There was an unusual amount of rain this Spring, so the lowest point had become a lake. It was so salty, after wading in it, the hosts legs were white. And the hills had a "salt bloom": the rain had released te salt, which covered the hills. They were salt-white.

[Frybabe]

That's interesting JoanK. I'm going to see if I can find any pix on the net. There are bound to be some.

Ginny, yes I did finish it. One of the many interesting items was the differences in chemical makeup (impurities) in salt from different areas and what they were used for. Some salts were considered condiments while others were considered medicinal, for instance. Avery Island, home of the famous Tabasco Sauce, rests on a salt dome. Very interesting Avery history here. Also, I never thought about Southern salt mines as strategic targets during the Civil War, but they were.

[Frybabe]

http://www.desertusa.com/wildflo/ca_dv.html

Here is something, Joan. This is the Desert Wildflower report for Death Valley. Pix and blogs. Someone has some rainfall stats for this year, and there is one picture of Lake Manly which they said was 8 inches deep on Feb. 10.  On March 3, someone reported kayakers on the lake, but an entry on March 12, said the lake is evaporating now.

[nlhome]

Our salt shaker gets dusty, because we don't use it, just have it for guests. We use a lot of other flavorings, especially pepper, garlic and lemon. We also read labels in the grocery store - not an easy feat with the small print and aging eyes!

[maryz]

I rarely add salt to my cooking - unless the recipe calls for it, then add less.  And almost never add anything at the table.  But I love fresh-ground pepper.  You're right - the sodium content of canned and any processed food is amazing. 

John's read the Kurlansky book, "Salt".  He found it very interesting.

[JoanK]

Fry: the Death Valley blog was interesting. When the TV crew was there, the lake was 3 feet deep, and they went kayaking on it. Others were floating in the water. The wildflowers were spectacular: seeds that had lain for many many years, waiting fot the one year where there was enough water to grow.

I have been to the Dead Sea where again the water is so salty that you just float on the surface. I don't know which is saltier.

[kidsal]

Rode along the Great Salt Lake in Utah this fall.  Blinding white salt deposits in the Salt Flats.

Don't they put iodine in salt?  Where do we get our required portion of that now if we don't use salt at the table?

[maryz]

kidsal, we get enough iodine from a regular balanced diet.  I'm 74 and have never used iodized salt.

[Ella Gibbons]

It's difficult isn't it?  I read the labels occasionally but try to eat a lot of fresh vegetables and fruits.  We always had salt on our table, my husband was too liberal with that salt shaker and would not stop it.  I'm 81 and trying to eat right.  I use Morton's Salt Substitute and it probably has awful stuff in it.  I don't know and I am not going to even read about it, I like the taste of it and Morton should know something of what they put out.

[JoanR]

I use very little salt in cooking and none at the table, but my husband is incorrigible, using it liberally to say the least.  However, I suppose that when one is 87, he could do just about as he pleases since a lot of the ill effects from diet take some time to build up!  He's a big candy fan too - no end to his dietary sins.  Amazingly enough, he's quite healthy.
I picked up a Japanese udon noodle soup packet the other day and nearly bought it until I noticed that it contained 70% of the daily salt requirement!!! WoW!!  I make a lot of soup myself and have had to be very careful about the different kinds of broth to use - almost all of them have too much salt.

By the way, I missed the Skype discussion.  Everyone seemed to think that it is always video - not so.  All monitors don't have Webcams on them - in that case you would be making a voice-only call.  If you do have a Webcam, you can choose whether or not to turn that particular feature on.  I love visiting with my far-off daughters on Skype - the one in DC has her computer in the kitchen right now so I can see the comings and goings of family and pets.  Skype calls are computer to computer unless you sign up (and pay) for the phone feature - otherwise free - anywhere!
Sorry to go off-topic - do forgive me!

[JoanK]

I love my Skype. My nephew fixed me up wit it and the camera; now I can talk to PatH and see her, too. If any of you all have it, we can meet. But don't be like Fairanna -- I told her we could see each other, and she said "O, no! I have to fix my hair and put on makeup, get my best outfit, etc. etc." I said "Forget it" Since I dont wear makeup, alwaays dress in tees and pants, and my hair's always a mess, I don't have that problem. You always see me the same.

You dont turn on the camera unless you want to. In my family, we do a regular call first and agree to skype: we don't get caught at awkward times.

[mrssherlock]

I love pickled anything (except herring). 

[PatH]

Jackie, I'll eat your herring.

[maryz]

Our son-in-law is a terrific gardener - with a huge garden.  Our daughter learned to can many years ago (not from ME), and puts up the most wonderful pickled green beans, pickled okra, pickled beets, spiced peaches, and spiced apple rings.  We do enjoy!!!

[ginny]

Herring? Listen I could eat  a pint of herring in sour cream with onions right out of the jar without blinking an eye.

Thank you, those of you talking about Skype, for this additional news, I absolutely know nothing about it and enjoy hearing from the experience our readers have.

Sally I don't know about iodine, isn't it in vitamins? And I see it's in natural foods as well. I wonder why there was such a problem with it once, does anybody know?

Here's an eye opener, you hold back on the salt shaker but did you know that 77 percent of the salt you get comes from processed and prepared foods. Don't eat any of those you say?

Check these out, this is from the excellent Mayo Clinic site, I trust them, they are good and non hysterical about health matters:



http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/NU00284

They say we get salt from.

   " *1.  Processed and prepared foods. Most sodium in a person's diet comes from eating processed and prepared foods, such as canned vegetables, soups, luncheon meats and frozen foods. Food manufacturers use salt or other sodium-containing compounds to preserve food and to improve the taste and texture of food.

    *2.  Sodium-containing condiments. One teaspoon (5 milliliters) of table salt has 2,325 mg of sodium, and 1 tablespoon (15 milliliters) of soy sauce has about 900 to 1,000 mg of sodium. Adding these or other sodium-laden condiments to your meals — either while cooking or at the table — raises the sodium count of food.

    * 3. Natural sources of sodium. Sodium naturally occurs in some foods, such as meat, poultry, dairy products and vegetables. For example, 1 cup (237 milliliters) of low-fat milk has about 107 mg of sodium."

They also say:


"So how do you identify foods high in sodium? The best way to determine sodium content is to read food labels. The Nutrition Facts label tells you how much sodium is in each serving. It also lists whether salt or sodium-containing compounds are ingredients. Examples of these compounds include:

    * Monosodium glutamate (MSG)
    * Baking soda
    * Baking powder
    * Disodium phosphate
    * Sodium alginate
    * Sodium nitrate or nitrite"

This last one is in all deli meats unless you get those labeled without it, they call it plain or...something, you don't want to eat any kind of nitrate or nitrite. There was an article recently about how stupid and silly it was to eat 'designer" cold cuts, they are not anything of the sort, ha ha on the fools that buy them,  but the turkey slices I eat have no nitrites in them, I can't recall and am currently out, what they are called, "plain," or something, but most stores carry them. Nothing, no additives, organic,  no hormones and no nitrites, no nitrates. Surely the hot dog is the bane of human existence, being a veritable cornucopia of salt, nitrates and nitrites.

If one reads the label (assuming one can  SEE the label, which is always a threat) one will be astounded at the chemicals they put in food to preserve it.

How much sodium do you need? Again from the Mayo Clinic:

"Various organizations, including the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine, have published recommendations on daily sodium limits. Most recommend not exceeding the range of 1,500 and 2,400 milligrams (mg) a day for healthy adults. Keep in mind that the lower your sodium, the more beneficial effect on blood pressure."


Since this is a holiday weekend and there is going to be a lot of eating going on, let's take a minor challenge,  set a goal of your own for salt intake, say  1500 or whatever  milligrams and let's keep a sort of whimsical notebook and see what we're really eating.

For instance I can put aside my Campbell's Tomato Soup today,  serving size 1/2 cup, sodium 710 mg, listed as 30 percent of your daily requirement, so that means that they are looking at the 2130 range of sodium per day. 1/2 cup of soup.

Feeling sick? The chicken noodle soup is 1/2 cup 660 mg which is 28 percent of what they say is a  daily dose of sodium.

But if you're sticking to 1500 then the 1/2 cup of tomato soup is half your daily sodium and you haven't even started your meal yet. Italian salad dressing 260mg in 2 T for a fresh salad.

If you look at the menu online of fast food you will be absolutely shocked at the sodium and fat in some of the entrees.

It actually seems you can't get away from it.

[maryz]

I've found the best way to avoid "unseen" sodium is to skip any prepared or processed foods.  I never use canned soups - my own are better - or canned chicken broth (I never have chicken or turkey without making broth from the bones, skin and other left-over parts - put it in zipper bag and put it in the freezer - skim the fat off first).  We eat a lot of ramen noodle soup, but never use the seasoning packet that comes with it - almost pure salt.  I use a low sodium boullion cube instead, plus some onion flakes and garlic powder.  I rarely used canned vegetables - or if I do, I pour off the liquid in the can and rinse the veggies before heating.  It's also generally cheaper to prepare your own things.  

[JoanK]

"77 percent of the salt you get comes from processed and prepared foods". That's discouraging! I can't eat canned soups or vegetables -- they taste like pure salt to me. I go lighter on the salad dressing: if I use too much, the salad tastes too salty. But I'm off to check the turkey lunch meat I eat. (I love Nathans hot dogs, but don't eat them often because they're expensive).

[JoanK]

OK, usual breakfast: Cheerios (190 mg) nofat milk (130mg) banana (?) =330.

Great, but here's where I get into trouble:

Lunch: 2bread (300), turkey/cheese (500!!!) fusion (20) tomato. lettuce(?)(no dressing)=820

So far 1150! AND I THOUGHT I WAS EATING A HEALTHY DIET! Guess I have to find a different lunch.

Dinner is usually home cooked, so should be better. But we'll see!

[Fran]

Just happened to check this out this a.m.--I enjoy my bread also, but use only (light) bread

whch is 50 calories per a slice and occasionally raisin bread which can be from 50-80-calories

a slice, also use light cheese--30 calories a slice. I do not like to cook so for lunch I often

have a "Healthy Choice" All Natural Entree-no preservatives--270-300 calories  and the sodium

is 580mg. Enjoyed reading your posts this a.m. now back to Latin class.  Fran

[mabel1015j]

What is it w/ men putting salt on everything w/out even checking to see if it's needed?..............do you think there is a genetic component to that, or are women just more careful about what we're eating? ..........jean

[serenesheila]

I just found this topic.  All of your comments are very informative.  I am a woman, and I know that I have a high intake of daily salt.  My attitude has been that as long as my blood pressure is normal, I will enjoy my salt.  However, this discussion may change my mind.

When there was a "scare" about pork, I gave it up.  My grandmother often served it.  She grew up on a pig farm.  She said they ate pork 3 times a day.  She lived until she was 98 years old.  I realize that her attitude about pork, colored my attitude about such "scares".

Eggs are another good example.  Remember when we were told that we should restrict our egg intake to 3-4 a week?  Years later, we were told it was OK to eating more, each week.

Sheila

[Steph]

I stopped adding salt in my 30's. I was diagnosed with high blood pressure and the doctor recommended it. I added lemon at the beginning and now have problems with certain foods that contain too much salt for me. There are some restaurants as well. I try to buy low salt products, but that gets tougher and tougher.. Still I never add salt.
One sterling exception. If I make homemade popcorn I add a little garlic salt. But I never eat movie popcorn,, the salt level is always sky high.
But it is hard to really know how much salt you get in processed foods.. All bread always has salt.. Even my homemade needs it. I can make bread without salt , but it lacks a certain lightness when you do it, plus it takes maybe twice or three times as long to rise.
Interesting topic.. Ginny.

[ginny]

It's amazing, isn't it? I wonder if Campbell's is reading this, the new issue of People Magazine which came out yesterday has a full page ad with the whole page a photo of a  can of Campbell's tomato soup saying we looked all over the world.... there's a photo of a seashell and salt in it..... for the best sea salt and added only a little to our soup, so you can have less salt. But they don't say what the result is or I did not read closely enough.

Sea salt apparently uses less salt? But does that mean you get less sodium and the same taste? I know that's a stupid question but I have sea salt here and it seems "saltier" to me, maybe with it, less is more?  Is anybody here a chemist?

I haven't seen the new labels on the new soup but there's nothing on the front of the can in the photo which says LESS or LOW anything.

I think in a lot of foods you're really tasting the salt.

I like what Joan K did above. What about fast food? Is there anybody here who has NEVER been thru or to a fast food restaurant of any kind?  Most of the fast food restaurants have their menus online where they spell out what's in each burger or fry.

McDonald's is good about that, tho you have to do theirs one at a time so you can't compare like you used to, the salt content of the whole menu but if you're sitting down (you may need to after you read this) one of their nice Quarter pounders with cheese will give you 1,190 mg of sodium.

In one sandwich.

Then add a large French fry  But it's only 350 mg! Not what you'd thnk. Kind of reminds me of the books:  Eat This, not That!

Have you seen them? I always always pick the wrong choice. Always.

Burger King's BK Triple Stacker which is not the most egregious thing on their menu but which is something I doubt any of us would care to eat has 1, 390 mg of sodium and 145 mg of cholesterol.

So you can literally eat yourself into a heart attack by driving thru a window in about 10 minutes of eating time.

 I used to wonder why I could finish a whopper with cheese and fries and still be hungry. You're not hungry you're desperate for something to drink.

And as far as chicken goes, the Tendercrisp chicken sandwich has
 1, 640 mg of sodium in it, care for fries with that?

But we're hungry, we're on a trip and in a hurry, let's drive thru and  have a Triple Whopper with  Cheese!

   1600mg sodium, 225mg cholesterol, 1250 calories, 84g fat

And that's before fries and dessert.

It's just astounding what is IN our food!

[pedln]

What an interesting topic that has sent me to the kitchen this morning looking at cheese, and those nifty little snack items.  I love the way the amounts of fat, salt, etc. are given for 1 oz. portions.

So, the goat cheese, and baby swiss I bought at Trader Joe's the other day -- 1 oz. is 130 -- 160 mg --- 5--6% of the daily  (and you know they base that on 2400, not 1500.)

Those little mustard flavored pretzels -- 1 oz.   18%,  430 mg
Sweet potato chips --  1 oz.  50mg, 2% of the daily.

I guess it's sweet potato chips for me, but who stops at 1 oz.

[JoanK]

Yes, you have to watch the "serving size" on those labels. It's often less than you would eat, especially on bad actors.

[mabel1015j]

Reese's Peanut Butter Easter Egg - 135mg!!!!

[PatH]

Twenty years ago, my husband was told to limit his sodium to 2000 milligrams a day.  Given that the allowance is 2400 milligrams or less a day, that doesn't sound too hard, right?  I was amazed at how ingenious I had to be to keep it that low.  And I'm a chemist--it's easy for me to weigh or measure things and do the calculations.

A couple of things helped, though they meant more work.  The big one was no processed foods unless you have done the arithmetic and know you can afford the sodium that day (often the answer was no).  The other one was eating to a pattern.  I divided the allowance up, 400 mg for breakfast, 600 mg for lunch, and 1000 for dinner.  Then I could see for each meal if it fit, and figure out what menus were easy.  It also meant I could think one meal at a time, which was less complicated.

Sodium isn't specially a health issue for me, but I try, in a sloppy sort of way, to keep to the same habits.

One super important thing: NO GUILT FOR OCCASIONAL FAILURES.  It messes you up if you agonize over something, and the most of the time pattern is what's important.

[PatH]

Ginny, I guess I'm the resident chemist.  Salt is sodium chloride, and the same WEIGHT of any kind of salt should be the same.  But other things aren't equal.  First, salts have different impurities, which affects the taste, making them seem different.  Second, different salts have different shape crystals, which means that teaspoon measurements don't correspond.  Kosher salt has larger crystals (that's what makes it kosher) so a teaspoon has less salt in it than a teaspoon of Morton's.  Third, if you are sprinkling it onto something, the shape of the crystals affects how salty it seems.  So it's definitely a moving target.

[Steph]

Sea salt is ground a bit coarser than regular salt.. Makes it taste a bit more intense, but it is really just another version of a fad.
Besides soup is a huge offender in the salt race.. So is canned boullion and chicken broth. I try very hard, but it is amazing the number of everyday things with way too much salt. The soft cheeses.. Tomatoes according to a dietician friend have natural salt affinities..

[pedln]

PatH, it’s good to know we have a resident chemist on board.  The more one hears and reads and understands, the more difficult it seems to stick to the guidelines, even when eliminating the table shakers and additions to cooking.

From the American Heart Assoc, January, 2010

Sodium: Frequently Asked Questions

What are the American Heart Association’s new (January 2010) sodium recommendations?
The American Heart Association recommends that all Americans reduce the amount of sodium in their diet to less than 1500 mg a day. This is a change from previous American Heart Association recommendations for the general population that set the limit at no more than 2300 mg a day. The new recommendations are one component in a suite of cardiovascular measurements developed by the American Heart Association to determine if Americans are improving their cardiovascular health by 20 percent by 2020.


How much sodium is in salt?

1/4 teaspoon salt = 575 mg sodium
1/2 teaspoon salt = 1,150 mg sodium
3/4 teaspoon salt = 1,725 mg sodium
1 teaspoon salt = 2,300 mg sodium
1 teaspoon baking soda = 1000 mg sodium

The article has more.

[serenesheila]

On the International History channel, "Modern Marvels", the topic will be salt.  It will be shown at 9:00 p.m., PDT, on Wednesday, April 7th.  The ad for it says:  "Salt is a versatile substanc with 14,000 known uses.  Visiting a salt mine under Lake Erie."

Sheila

[pedln]

But this is good news -- from Ginny's Mayo Clinic link, above

Your taste for salt is acquired, so it's reversible. To unlearn this salty savoring, decrease your use of salt gradually and your taste buds will adjust. Most people find that after a few weeks of cutting salt, they no longer miss it. Start by using no more than 1/4 teaspoon (1 milliliter) of added salt daily, and then gradually reduce to no salt add-ons. As you use less salt, your preference for it lessens, allowing you to enjoy the taste of food itself.

[maryz]

As I said, I use very little salt.  I started using pepper for seasoning.  That's all I put on eggs now.  I keep a pepper grinder on the table, and use different kinds of peppercorns (a mixture).  So good!

[Steph]

I agree that I dont use extra salt at all. What I get comes from the prepared or canned or frozen stuff.
But have you ever sat and watched in a restaurant. I have seen people salt McDonalds French Fries, which are wonderful, but absolutely overwhelmed with salt to begin with.. Amazing.