Author Topic: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?  (Read 23190 times)

ginny

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Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« on: May 14, 2010, 10:45:17 AM »
Talking Heads #9

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.


A two week  forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.

Our Ninth  Selection is: A Duty to Die

Is this what we've come to now?


Don't miss this very  provocative article titled  Higher Ed Can Lead to Lower  Values  in the  Columbus Dispatch on May 14, 2010,

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/05/14/higher-ed-can-lead-to-lower-values.html

 and let's talk about some of these issues,  because there's a LOT here he covers, including escalating solutions for the elder generation, education, the virtues of poverty and a lot more!

Let's discuss!.



ginny

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 10:47:41 AM »
I guess of all the topics we've covered, this is probably the most controversial.

And this article hits all the buttons: education, the value of poverty and the lack of education, and what we heard in the arguments about health care reform early on: stay healthy or die.

Probably one of the most provocative articles ever written, what's YOUR take on it?

The floor is now open for your opinions!

mrssherlock

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2010, 11:49:05 AM »
My family recently suffered a medical emergency when my sister's nose started hemorrhaging and she was unable to stop the bleeding.  On the way to the ER the EMTs found no BP and no pulse due to the rapid loss of blood. She said that she was prepared to die, it would be just a very long nap to her. She has survived but it was quite a scare.  She and I were discussing the potential effect that the age of the patient may have on the medical care provided.  She is 73 and I am 75.  As I told her, it isn't if it's when.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 12:48:18 PM »
YEs, an interesting article!  It WOULD BE better for society if all people - let's say - at the age of 75 just died.  Easier on Medicare, doctors, families, etc.  There would be money in Social Security for those just getting to the age.

How to accomplish this??   Hahahaaaa  

Throw Grandma from the train, comes to mind.  

I know, when the "talking heads" on TV were discussing the health care bill that has now passed into law, they hinted there was language in it that perceived the elderly as excess baggage and prohibited care for them.

Did the rest of you hear any talk like that?

Has Congress read the entire Healthcare bill yet?  I understand it is pages and pages long!

It's probably hidden in there someplace, but I do believe there is a difference in doctor's attitudes since the bill was passed.

maryz

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 01:12:14 PM »
Good topic.

Ella, we all heard the talk about the so-called "death panels", which never existed and were never proposed.  Anyhow, I'll be reading the article, and coming back in to talk. 
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mrssherlock

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 02:28:20 PM »
I'd like to think that limited medical resources would prioritize aiding the young over the old.  I have lived my "three score and ten" and, while I'm not lining up to suicide as I read in a SF story once, I'm also ready to trade in this body for a new one as in John Scalzi's series which begins with Old Man's War whose premise is that, at 75, one trades in one's old body for a new one, 20-something, colored green, with enhanced senses and physical attributes, then serves in the space army defending earth from aliens.  Maybe this attitude which allows me to think of the mass rather than the me, is a result of higher education.  While writing this I pausedto watch the launch of the Atlantis space shuttle on it last mission and I pondered what would be the state of technology if we lived under a libertarian regime instead of a democratic one.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

ANNIE

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2010, 07:05:25 PM »
My gosh, Jackie!  How glad you must be that your sister is still alive and kickin'!  Well, I would say that the EMT's tried to relieve her fear at that time, in the only way they knew to do so.

When I read the column, I immediately thought of Chief Dan George, in "Little Big Man",  as he walks out of his village telling Dustin Hoffman, his grandson, that its a good day to die.  That tribe also believed that the elderly had a choice as to when they wanted to die. Then he starts talking about his wife and he thinks maybe they have some good days left in their life together so he starts walking back to the village.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

ginny

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2010, 07:28:16 PM »
What great comments here!

Quote
Maybe this attitude which allows me to think of the mass rather than the me, is a result of higher education.


I think what struck me the most about the article was actually the idea that those with more education have somehow lost any values, and those who are poor and without education are somehow more superior in terms of knowing what's right.

I am not sure that these issues have anything to do with a "duty to die."

I found it quite strange reasoning, but it's reasoning (no fool like an educated fool) that a lot of people make.

I thought that part of the argument was specious.


mrssherlock

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2010, 08:05:26 PM »
Ginny:  "Ignorance is bliss?" 
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

nlhome

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2010, 08:21:28 PM »
What struck me more was the thought that we put a price on people's lives. Wow.

CallieOK

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2010, 10:46:17 PM »
Marking a spot.  I read the article but have no thoughts or comments...yet!

pedln

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2010, 11:28:18 PM »
My first thoughts when I saw that article when catching up on Library posts -- consider the source.  And second thoughts were -- shades of Clarence Thomas and Rush Limbaugh.  And lo and behold, they're all part of a mutual admiration society.  Thomas Sowell is one of the most ultra-conservative journalists around and I for one take anything he says with a grain of salt.
His comments below are just more of the same "death-panel" scare techniques that have been batted around for the past several months.

 
Quote
Already the government-run medical system in Britain is restricting what medications or treatments it will authorize for the elderly. Moreover, it seems almost certain [Why do you say that] that similar attempts to contain runaway costs will lead to similar policies when American medical care is taken over by the government.

Quote
Much of what is taught in our schools and colleges today seeks to break down traditional values and replace them with more fancy and fashionable notions, of which "a duty to die" is just one.

Your proof, Mr. Sowell?  What are the facts?

People like him scare the heck out of me because they make these positive sounding statements  without having anything to back them up.

Steph

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2010, 06:10:12 AM »
Whew.. Shades of Rush and Clarence. What a conservative human and what a cynical one.. Aunt Nance Ann my foot.. He is talking about a common thing before medicare.. Families and friends took in the needy and they all tried together to struggle to get along. Nothing to do with education or money,, just the once connected life we led.
At 72, I am healthy enough.. I still look forward to my grandchildrens growth and my childrens lives.. I am interested in a lot of things.. But and this is a big but, just recently I have had two conversations with friends, who insisted that certain things were not done medically because of their ages.. Both are in their 80's.. I was indignant, but then when I thought of it.. A heart transplant at 82.. Hmm.. I would think that transplants should end at some point.. Who knows.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ANNIE

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2010, 02:57:57 PM »
Steph
Since I have a lot of heart care stories because of Ralph's heart problems, I think I know it all.  :D   But, I do know that Medicare will not pay for a heart transplant in anyone over 70 or 72 and its been that way for the last 10 yrs.   Even the heart pump that Ralph has is not put in everyone.  At first they were installing it for patients who were awaiting a heart transplant.  Ralph was in a study for deciding if the pump was appropriate for older patients who couldn't get a transplant. And it was approved last fall. He was 75 when it was implanted and he feels like a kid most of the time.  He says with ObamaCare, he probably wouldn't have gotten one.  Too expensive.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2010, 05:01:13 PM »
OBAMACARE!  Haven't heard that, Ann!

But like Ginny I was startled at Sowell's idea that those higher-educated (the elites) men/women are the ones that are attempting to downsize Medicare and Medicaid. 

None of you believe this?


maryz

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2010, 06:18:17 PM »
I certainly don't believe that.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

Steph

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2010, 06:04:04 AM »
The only thing medicare ever turned down on the accident was the stupid ambulance service.. They billed for an ambulance..( we were helopcoptered) instead of the advanced life support for my husband ( which they did). I ended up paying them personally, but I am still annoyed at the office staff there for not billing for the correct item.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ginny

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2010, 07:42:59 AM »
I think this article, written by an apparently intelligent man in an intelligent manner points to what's wrong in a lot of our current thinking in this country and maybe in others, I don't  know.

We have facts and then we have Aunt Nance Ann or whatever her name is. We have two different sets of time and we have this or that person who has advanced the theory that without the elderly things would be better for the young workers.

That alone begs credulity. I mean there are so many leaps of reasoning here, and conclusions made  going from A to Z without looking at D or E.

It's those over 55 who have paid in the most of the social security for the longest period of time, and if the current demographics are right, made the most money,  what happened to it? Fraud, bad investments, I don't know, but it's running out. The dangerous (in my opinion) shift of blame to those who actually dare to live past 50 is monstrous, when the blame belongs on those who failed to administer it properly.

And then because this or that person, of whatever education,  has made some asinine statement, for the writer here to leap to the conclusion again specious reasoning, that ALL educated people (and who would THEY BE? What degree of education makes you fall into this area?) ascribe to this theory is just....at best, specious reasoning. At worst it's dangerous.

 We know Rush Limbaugh, cited as an admirer,  is singularly lacking in education, as his own father asked once at the dinner table "where does he GET this stuff?"  But to lump ALL people with more than a GED, say, into this category and then say all educated people have lost touch with the values that matter and throw in the emotional Aunt Nance Ann, of a bygone era and time when most of us, (gasp,  even the educated) found themselves caring for extended family is just outrageous.

He's entitled to his opinions and his points, but his reasoning is repulsive.  It's this type of rabble rousing thing (to his defense, he's not advocating the "duty to die,")  but his bringing up this obnoxious  reasoning is just the exact type of thing that is about as helpful as a soccer riot. And makes about as much sense.

Too many talking heads. Have you noticed CNN lately? Call in with YOUR opinions. Facebook, Twitter,blogs, YOUR opinions, What happened to the news? YOUR chance in the sun, YOUR thoughts, whether or not they make sense or are even coherent, YOUR chance to be heard. YOU engaging with this "radio or tv personality." It's all about YOU.

 The radio rants, call in, Long Time Listener,  First Time Caller. BS on the air. But this is nothing new. Years ago there was a,  was it Father Divine, not sure that's the right person,  on the radio who ranted and blasted and of course there were the McCarthy hearings.

The percentage of college graduates in 2010 is quite a bit higher than it was in the days of Aunt Nance Ann, (whenever those were, I assume it was in the author's childhood and he's not a young man by his photograph). Ah the good old days. Everything and everybody was so pure. Till you read the newspapers of the time, such depravity among some of our pure citizens, it makes you blanch. And I'm talking about all the way back to the 1800's, surely before Aunt Nance's time, when most of the country lacked this college degree (or whatever the criterion is here).

The world is a different place. Is it because people went to college? I thought that the current state of unemployment, particularly of unskilled jobs,  had led to more domestic abuse, more child abuse, among those with less education and resources than ever before. We must be reading different statistics. Even tho domestic abuse can happen at any level, I believe the statistics will bear me out on this one. So it would appear that the "poor" (or was it those with a lack of higher education, what a swamp this reasoning is),  are not upholders of virtue after all.

But it's good enough for Rush and Ilk to milk for a talk show for a week or two). How on earth that man with his own addictions could rant and rave about addicted people is beyond me.

Things like this, this type of "play to the emotions, things were better, people cared, it's all the fault of the educated fool," thing, just drive me WILD and it's a lot more prevalent than people think. And I do think it's dangerous, hopefully somebody out there can think for themselves.

CallieOK

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2010, 10:48:10 AM »
Ginny - AMEN and AMEN!

There are plenty of people "out there" who feel the same way but, IMO, we are completely overrun and overshadowed by the Ranters and Ravers - so our voices are seldom heard.  And, if they are, there might be one positive response allowed - but it will edited (if written) or interrupted (if spoken) so that responses touting the R & R viewpoints will overshadow the disagreements.

A long time ago, I became very concerned about the age group who would be in charge as I reached my elder years.  Well - now they are and I have...and my concerns have not been soothed.
There is a reason why that age group is called "The ME generation".

CallieOK

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2010, 11:20:28 AM »
OMT  :)

I wonder how Aunt Nance Ann felt about her situation? Was she consulted? Were there options other than having her move in with relatives?  If so, were these considered?
Did she actually have a place in the family routine or was she simply expected to be as unobtrusive as possible?

Is it different today - from the Elder perspective?


mrssherlock

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2010, 12:57:34 PM »
We live in a world complex beyond any imaginings of our forefathers and mothers.  Connections between stimuli and results are obscured by the multiplicity of variables, especially as they relate to we humans, leaving us feeling impotent and of little value in making our lives' decisions.  So, when someone comes along and tells us that all this is happening because people are living too long, and we see in the obituary pages of our newspapers (if we read newspapers) that so many are aged in their 80s, it must be true.  Surely Social Security was not designed for people to live so 20 years after retirement.  I remember hearing as a young woman that men should plan their retirements so that they would have interests and activities which would occupy them and keep them from bothering their wives who were running the household very well, thank you, and didn't need their advice or assistance.  Else the men would die within two (2) years of retirement.  Hard to believe that the world for people of our generation has changed so much in our lifetimes.  Oh the appeal of the simple answer, especially when it includes a target to blame.  The rantings of Father Coughlin  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin) were so extreme that eventually he was silenced by the Archdiocese but his audiences were reckoned to be in excess of 30 million.  Who'd a thought we would be seeing a virtual network of hate mongers 70+ years later.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

Steph

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2010, 06:08:50 AM »
When you think about it.. Wonder what this man and Rush and Glen Beck plan on doing as they get older.. or are they old enough already>> People are amazing.. I suspect they would assume that they are the exceptions. Age has so little to do with how people are and how they react to life..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ginny

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2010, 07:22:28 AM »
What wonderful thoughtful posts here, I agree with all of them.


Callie: so true:
 so our voices are seldom heard.  And, if they are, there might be one positive response allowed - but it will edited (if written) or interrupted (if spoken) so that responses touting the R & R viewpoints will overshadow the disagreements.


THAT says it all.

What IS it, does anybody know, that's so appealing about the Ranters and Ravers? I have noticed on CNN the proliferation suddenly of ranters about crime or outrage. Nancy Grace. We all know that heinous crimes are heinous, but why do we need to glory in every detail? Stephen King has said some awful things about "Nancy Grace," apparently she caused thru her badgering, and ranting the suicide of a suspected murderer or something. Issues with Jane Velez Mitchell, have you seen THAT thing?  A panel of 6 ranting heads, ...there is no...calmness, it's all Media Media Media, gasp, breathlessness look at this awful thing, too awful to talk about, let's give it prime time and talk for hours on every detail, and, Caller, YOU call in, we need your "opinions."

(Caller: Why, I just think it's awful!) There you have it, Listeners, let us tell you how awful it is. On the night of the 10th.....

And this from Callie, so true again from those who remember this type of situation or are living it now:


I wonder how Aunt Nance Ann felt about her situation? Was she consulted? Were there options other than having her move in with relatives?  If so, were these considered?

Did she actually have a place in the family routine or was she simply expected to be as unobtrusive as possible?

Is it different today - from the Elder perspective?


That's an incredible point. I think it is. I think the Elder Perspective now is completely different. What do you all think and what do you think has happened to make it so?  Is 70 the new 50? If so how did that happen?

_______________________

Mrs.Sherlock, that's a beautiful post.

Connections between stimuli and results are obscured by the multiplicity of variables, especially as they relate to we humans, leaving us feeling impotent and of little value in making our lives' decisions.  So, when someone comes along and tells us that all this is happening because people are living too long, and we see in the obituary pages of our newspapers (if we read newspapers) that so many are aged in their 80s, it must be true.

Yes. Where IS our voice? Who speaks for us? Who listens when we do speak?



The rantings of Father Coughlin  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin)


YES! That's him, Father Divine did not have a radio program, good for you, Jackie, I could not remember the name. But I do remember having heard him.


We have our local equivalent of Rush Limbaugh and Don Imus in the local talk shows here. There are two hosts, male and female, and they take turns playing bad cop good cop, the woman is usually the "righteous cop," they are always both outraged at something, but they are anything but righteous, it's a miracle they have not been sued, character assassination, the same breathless hypocritical righteousness. Where is all this anger coming from?

And you can find these people easily by just  turning the radio dial in your car.  They all have the same outraged voices. Thank goodness most of them are confined to the radio (possibly because in person they are so singularly unattractive, I mean LOOK at Don Imus who now has a TV show [mistake]  and Rush Limbaugh).   And I don't think the majority of people listen to radio in their homes. Ditto heads. Long time Listener, First time Caller, my foot.

Do people feel that helpless and disembodied today, and if so why?

Could this be the true origin of the "Tea Party," and what exactly, can somebody tell me,  IS the Tea Party? There's a new interview with Willie Nelson in, I think , the new Time magazine and they ask him about it. I guess they figure Heartland Willie will really be on board.  His answer was  he doesn't know what they stand for who they are (paraphrasing here) or what they want, so he has no knowledge of it. I don't either.  What or who are they? Who do they speak for? Is this a Sarah Palin ("how's that hopey changey thing working out for you?") vehicle for the next presidential elections?

Do we really feel so little empowered that we need the Tea Party?

ginny

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2010, 07:46:48 AM »
Stephanie: I suspect they would assume that they are the exceptions.


Everybody does, that's the irony of life. Everybody is an exception (and they are). Maybe that's the rationale behind the hate mongers.  I have never seen Glen Beck but I've heard enough about him to avoid him. What's his shtick? What's his particular hobby horse he rides in on? I've heard Limbaugh.

Pat

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2010, 09:49:07 AM »
From Pedln
Quote
My first thoughts when I saw that article when catching up on Library posts -- consider the source.  And second thoughts were -- shades of Clarence Thomas and Rush Limbaugh.  And lo and behold, they're all part of a mutual admiration society.  Thomas Sowell is one of the most ultra-conservative journalists around and I for one take anything he says with a grain of salt.
His comments below are just more of the same "death-panel" scare techniques that have been batted around for the past several months.

I sure agree


I've been away since the 13th getting a repair to an artery, and missed this opening.  I live alone, am independent, financially and physically, and with the stent the Dr. put in, I'm good for a bit longer, and will quit falling down.

I'm facing death, but we all are--- I just not ready.  I have too much to do.  My HMO is getting "chintzier" all the time about paying for my Dr. I have read what I can about the new Health Care law, but don't have a clue how it will affect me.

But with others, a nursing home or assisted living is the answer and that is costly both for the person and medicare.  When I get to that stage and I hope I know what is going on and the quality of my mind is good.

*Quote from Ginny that I copied many years ago, and is pinned to the top of my bulletin board:
Quote
*By, gum,when you come to the end of your days,
*if your genes held out and you are alive in your 90's and your luck held out and you are in your right mind,
*there better BE something of quality and substance IN that mind or it's not worth the journey.

*That is my opinion.   ...... Ginny Quote




pedln

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2010, 11:11:48 AM »
Pat, thanks for putting in that Ginny-quote.  I love it.  I had an uncle who lived to 102, mind intact. He didn't look it, but mainly I don't think he ever thought of himself as old.  When he was 90 he put up earnest money on a retirement condo that would be finished for 18 months. (I thought that was a real act of faith, but my aunt - his sister -- did the same and she was in her late 80's.) So, when he was 92 he and his wife DROVE from DC (he'd worked at the SEC from Joseph Kennedy days until he retired) to settle into "the rest of his life" in Wisconsin.

Sometime in his 90's the doctors wanted to perform surgery on his carotid artery. But a grand-nephew, also a doctor, said, "Don't let them do it. It'll kill him."  So he didn't and stayed around to celebrate more birthdays.

mrssherlock

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2010, 02:00:14 PM »
Pedln:  What an inspiration.  ;)
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

CallieOK

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2010, 03:32:15 PM »
When my Aunt Esther was 90, she had two problems:  Her new girdle was too tight and she couldn't decide where to plant the petunias. 

I don't think 70+ is the "new" anything!!!!!  I think these Baby Boomers just want it to be so.
(Loved a recent cartoon in which a woman standing on a scale said, "I just read somewhere that 160 pounds is the new 135".  Now THAT, I can relate to!  :D)

I also saw a recent t v clip about a local orthopedist who has developed some kind of new hip joint replacement.  The thrust of the story was that Baby Boomers who are developing joint problems can "simply" have surgery - and be "good as new". 
I guess this joins Botox and facelifts as aging "solutions".   ::)

Steph

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2010, 06:14:12 AM »
I think that Seniorlearn proves over and over that the older generation are thinkers and doers. The baby boomers tend to be whiners and do over types.. Oh well. We have fun, use our brains and  learn new languages.. They could take a few lessons from us. I know my sons feel that they hope to learn as they age to enjoy life and travel as much as their Dad and I did.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ANNIE

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2010, 06:46:19 AM »
Callie
Those hip replacements won't be so easy to get when Obamacare kicks in.  I would suspect that age will have a great deal to with whether you can have it.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

pedln

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2010, 10:48:28 AM »
Quote
Those hip replacements won't be so easy to get when Obamacare kicks in.

Well, I'm from Missouri and you know what they say about us -- SHOW ME!

I'm not sure I agree with that.  I'd have to hear someone say, "Well, the doctor told me I was too old.  I have to endure a life of pain instead."


ANNIE

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2010, 11:05:12 AM »
Pedl'n.
One cannot get a heart transplant after age 70 or 72 and that's been true for the last 15 years.  I believe Canada and England have some of these refusals already recorded but I will go 'google' that and let you know!
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

pedln

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2010, 11:46:03 AM »
Remember back when kidney transplants were first attempted?  There weren't very many available and they went to those who had the best chance of survival.  I remember a magazine article that interviewed a man who had been refused one because he was diabetic.  I have no idea whether that would be true today or not.

Regarding the heart transplants, and other organ transplants, is it strictly a matter of age, or does availability and chance of survival figure in?  If there was one organ available and a pool of 5 patients of varying health who needed it, should it go to the sickest or the one who had the best chance of survival?

maryz

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2010, 12:58:43 PM »
Frankly, at my age (74), even though I think I have many good years left, if my organs were diseased enough that I needed an organ transplant, I think I would much rather have the organ go to a younger person, perhaps with dependent children, etc., who had a longer life ahead.  It would be a no-brainer for me.  And my living will (and instructions to John and children) is very specific about the "no heroic measures" stuff.  Of course, this is MY choice.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

ANNIE

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2010, 06:06:28 AM »
Pedl'n,
Well, I 'googled' about transplants for the elderly and up came a plethora of sites.  Just read this list of links to how well the elderly are receiving transplants even stem cells!  Amazing!!
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=transplants+for+elderly%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Do read about the drs using less than perfect transplants for the elderly and better organs for the young.  Very interesting.  I know that they were doing this with heart transplants back about 10 yrs ago but it wasn't working very well.

Mary,
Both my husband and I have final wishes spelled out but these stories might make one think about a transplant.  
We just want to have quality and dignity to our life's end.

Yesterday my 76 yr old husband had an abdominal aortic aneurysm repair, using a wall graft/stent, and although they were fairly sure that he would not need the usual big surgery for this procedure, they prepared him as though that was what was going to happen.  Heart/lung machine was present plus blood for transfusion and they put him out with regular anesthetic.  Thanks to lots good thoughts and prayers and a terrific surgeon (a lady doctor with much talent and experience) he made it through.  :) :)
 
If one were a true cynic about these things, one would wonder if we are being used as the lab rats.  
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

maryz

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2010, 09:00:56 AM »
Adoannie - wonderful news about your husband's successful surgery. 

Many of us are living longer and better lives with all the new technology - but it does come with a price.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2010, 03:26:22 PM »
Annie:  Great news about your husband's surgery.  i have been reading novels co-written by William Bass, head of U Tenn's famous Body Farm and have been musing about donating my body for that kind of research.  It feels like I would be doing something noble.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

ANNIE

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2010, 05:10:37 PM »
Jackie,
Did you join us about 2 yrs ago when we discussed no longer fowling our nest but do everything as natural as possible---like your burial???  Here's a link about  to links about eco burials:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=eco+burial+pods&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

The Body Farm sounds like a good idea and I noticed that there are others in US. 
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Pat

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Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2010, 06:21:52 PM »
Donating one's body to science -- a university med school is what my family has done. 
My mother gave hers to U of IL Med School in Chicago in '86;
My mother-in-law gave her body to U of IA Med School in Iowa City in '88;
My husband donated his body to the U of IA in '03;
And I carry a card that on my death, my body will go to the U of IA.
Several members of our church have donated their bodies following the decision of my mother-in-law

The ashes are returned to the family after about 18 to 24 months.
There is also a Memorial service to attend at the med school.

Arrangements are made prior to death with a funeral home, who will be alerted to transport the body as soon as possible.
(Saves the cost of an expensive casket.)

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: Talking Heads ~ A Duty to Die?
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2010, 06:57:01 PM »
Pat:  An expensive casket is what I'm striving to eliminate. 
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke