Author Topic: Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne ~ February Book Club Online (Read 141064 times)

JoanP · « **on:** December 12, 2010, 12:05:17 PM »

Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C.Gwynne

February Book Club Online

It's an AMERICAN STORY. THE U.S. ARMY, TEXAS RANGERS - SETTLERS- ALL AGAINST THE INDIANS

The year was 1871 and the final destruction of the last of the hostile tribes was just beginning after 250 years of bloody combat. The end of the Civil War had brought many new people to the west searching for land, adventure, glory.

By this time the Indians had seen the buffalo depart, they were cadging food, stealing horses and other useful artifacts or ornamental things from the white man. Some learned to speak Spanish or English. All loved clothing and blankets made of cotton or wool, and the accumulation of white man's artifacts. It was a sort of cultural pollution that could not be stopped.

And then there were the white captives; particularly a white squaw who had lived with the Indians, married, had a son named Quanah who became the last great Comanche War Chief. An epic saga! A fascinating book! Come join us as we discuss the integration of the Indians into a civilized world.

Please post below if you plan to join us in February.

Discussion Leaders: Ella & Harold

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2010, 01:31:13 PM »

Does it seem like "old stuff?" Cowboy and Indian stuff? John Wayne stuff?

If you think so, you are missing a large part of history. The Plains Indians were still fighting the white man during our country's Civil War.

I had no idea it went on this long, did you? And what was the tribe that fought on so fiercely out west, the most powerful Indian tribe in American history? And what happened to the white captives after they had been ransomed by their families?

That is the story in this book, written by a master storyteller that you will find irresistible.

JOIN US IN FEBRUARY!

JoanP · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2010, 11:03:56 AM »

I was just noticing this book is mentioned in the New York Times list of most notable books of 2010, Ella! There must be something new or striking about it to earn this spot!

The names Cynthia Parker and her son Quanah Parker sound SO familiar to me...dreadful memory these days. Are these names every Texas child grows up with? As I recall, Parker is Cynthia's maiden name - and her son has her name. I'm curious about his paternity, so count me in.

Our library owns 6 copies - I'm #8 on the queue.

ALF43 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2010, 03:58:17 PM »

Count me in for this one Ella.
I have always been a sucker for the "cowboys and Injuns" stories.
I must warn you beforehand, I always take the underdogs and that, IMO, has always been the Indians.
I will check it out to see if I can download it on my new Nook (which Santa is bringing) or if I can rent it from the library.

serenesheila · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2010, 07:41:24 PM »

ELLA, and HAROLD, please count me in! I am another one who has almost always rooted for the underdog. Even as a child I found it offensive listening to people referring to the American Indian, as savages! How arra. . gant of decendants of European settlers. I look forward to this discussion.

Sheila

Jonathan · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2010, 09:01:01 PM »

This does sound interesting. I couldn't miss this opportunity to learn more of the great saga of conflict between Cowboys and Indians in the American West. Count me in.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2010, 01:04:53 AM »

Welcome Alf, Sheila and Jonathan!

This is a great book about the Comanche Nation particularly its later years when it was led by a half bread Chief who carried his mother's family name, Parker. It is the story of the band of Shoshone who left their northwest mountain homeland to wander south and a bit east to the prairie where they became buffalo hunters expert horsemen, and the finest light guerrilla Calvary this word has ever known. Particularly it is the story of Quanah Parker the tragedy beginning with the 1836 massacre of much of the Parker family, the abduction of 9 year old Cynthia Ann Parker who grew up a Comanche, marrying a Comanche Warrior bearing his son Quanah who became the last great Comanche War Chief. It was he who in the end led his people into the reservation and a new life in 20th century America.

I am reading the book on my new Nook Color-Tablet. I think it will be an interesting experience reading this way, and as a tablet the instrument may be a bit better than I expected. It connected easily to the internet via the new wi fi net work that I installed myself, It is best connected to picture rich sites such as NASA, Hubble, and my Pictures From the Past family history page. These show up quite well with pictures enlarged to fill the full 7 inch screen. Also I can read the seniorlearn boards but I don’t think I will post much from it as the screen keyboard is a bit too much for my clumsy, stiff fingers to handle the texting of even moderately long posts..

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2010, 08:51:27 AM »

Isn't this great, HAROLD!
On opening day to have people interested in the EMPIRE OF THE SUMMER MOON!

Welcome, JOANP! Thanks for mentioning that the New York Times has taken notice of the book. I must look up other references and bring them here.

JONATHAN! So happy you are here, one doesn't have to take sides at all. Its's history, our history, Canadian history. History is alive and constantly changing! And always fascinating from a different viewpoint!

SHEILA! What is your definition of a savage? If it is the common one you will find that definition applies to both Indians and the white man. Welcome to the book discusion.

And ALF, we must have your viewpoint, I do hope Santa brings your dream! Otherwise, your library will have a copy! Welcome, Welcome!

THANK YOU ALL FOR POSTING!

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2010, 03:08:33 PM »

Every one please note the following post copied from the non-fiction board. (Nonfiction Board Reply #1488 by maryz

Harold, et al - on a whim, I checked BookTV.org to see if they had interviewed S. C. Gwynne (Empire of the Summer Moon). And indeed, he did speak at the 2010 Texas Book Festival this fall. It's about 45 minutes. Click here to get to the site where you can listen to the interview. Click the following URL for the interview
http://www.booktv.org/Program/12037/2010+Texas+Book+Festival+SC+Gwynne+Empire+of+the+Summer+Moon.aspx

maryz · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2010, 04:11:24 PM »

And I'll be checking in, too.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2010, 05:38:20 PM »

Oh, good, MARYZ! Thanks so much for that clickable.

Sorry we all missed that C-Span program where the author talks about the book. But we will have our opinions come February.

maryz · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2010, 06:25:31 PM »

Ella, I just listened to it this afternoon online.

serenesheila · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2010, 11:08:52 PM »

ELLA, my definition of a savage is: someone who is uncivilized. What is your definition? In the 1940's, and I went to at least one movie a week, being a savage was used a lot. I never liked it.

I never realized that it was also used about caucasions. In what context?

Sheila

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2010, 11:36:33 AM »

SHEILA, I think there can be several definitions of the word "savage" as in savage attacks on an woman by an abusive husband, savage attacks by caucasians against Indians, and vice versa, as described in this book. I think any abuser, whether it be a soldier against an enemy, stronger force against the weak, etc., can be both "civilized" and savage.

I suppose what we are describing as a word can be both a noun or a verb, right?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2010, 11:45:06 AM »

A remake of an old movie, TRUE GRIT - by Matt Damon, a tale of a Texan Ranger. I never saw the original version so I can not speak of any relation to the validity of its truth about the Texas Rangers.

http://www.truegritmovie.com/

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2010, 10:12:58 AM »

I have another interesting publication Entitled "Comanche Moon." It is a 120 page comic book account of the Cynthia Ann Parker and Quanah Parker story. It on 8.5 X 11 inch pulp paper, but quite adequately bound. I also have a similar Texas history comic book entitled "Los Tejanos” that tells the story of Juan Seguin one of the native Hispanic Texans who participated in the Texas revolution and the period of the republic that followed. Both of these books were published in the 60's or 70's.

In the 1930's on the occasion of the 1936 Centennial there was a much broader Texas History in comic book format outlining the history of Texas from Cabeze de Vaca in the 1520 through the then current 1936 period. I remember reading this book in Junior High School study hall. I still remember the dialog describing some of the frames. I have a copy of this original publication that I bought at a used book store in the 70's. All of these books were quite serious Junior High "School level histories in Comic Book format very effect in their attraction of early teen age readers. Actually I think that is a much to simple judgment; though they are unlikely to interest graduate level research in history, I think they would attract many general adult readers today. In fact I suspect a reader of the "Comanche Moon publication would be quite prepared for some participation in the coming discussion.

Frybabe · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2010, 11:35:59 AM »

I hope to participate, time permitting.

This is a book my Mom may want to read when I am done with it.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2010, 12:22:54 PM »

I hope you can join us, Frybabe!

The book, almost five months on the NYT bestseller list, is going to be made into a movie, possibly starring Robert Duvall as Quanah and if you put the title of the book into Google you can spend hours reading reviews, excerpts, etc.

C-Span's interview with the author is here:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/296792-1

And there are so many more; however, if you are, like me and many, many more on this site, you want to read the book and if you are from Texas, particularly, you will want to own the book and pass it along to all your younger relatives.

Of course, that statement is incorrect. Actually, if you are interested in how America became a nation, all the mistakes that were made with that process, you will want to read the book. It is American history.

CallieOK · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2010, 05:39:11 PM »

Quahnah Parker has Oklahoma connections, also. I'd like to read along.

Frybabe · « **Reply #19 on:** December 21, 2010, 08:01:19 PM »

I ordered the book last night. Hopefully, I can get started on reading it ahead of time to make sure I have a sporting chance of keeping up.

I mentioned my Mom in my last post. She is more interested in Indian culture and history than I, but her focus has been on Eastern tribes and the Seminole. Once in a while, I check to see if I can find any non-fiction books about the local tribes (Delaware of Leni Lanape) but haven't had much luck. Folk stories, etc. would be good.

My cousin in Florida taught the Lacota (spelling?)language. He lives in Florida. I asked him why he didn't teach Seminole. He told me no one was interested in learning it; they prefered to learn Lacota. I don't know if he is still teaching it.

Long ago, we had a neighbor who, after getting his PhD, taught in the Blackfoot schools for many years. I lost track of him and his family years ago. His brother went on to be a veterinarian until he had to switch to teaching because of arthritis. His mom and sister moved out to Texas.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #20 on:** December 22, 2010, 05:03:36 PM »

FRYBABE, what interesting stories, I never knew anyone who had any connection (teaching Indians or an Indian relative) with any of the native People. Don't read very far ahead, the discussion doesn't start until February.

CALLIE, wonderful. We are so pleased you are joining us; do you live in Oklahoma?

CallieOK · « **Reply #21 on:** December 22, 2010, 05:38:22 PM »

Ella, yes, I live in the Oklahoma City area and volunteer at The Oklahoma History Center, which has an entire Gallery devoted to the 39 Indian tribes associated with the state.

I'll try to do some research before February to see what exhibits include information about the Comanche and/or Quanah Parker.

marjifay · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2010, 02:35:23 PM »

I'll be reading Empire of the Summer Moon. Sounds good. Have had it on my TBR list.

Want to read True Grit by Charles Portis. I understand the Coen Brothers took their new film straight from this book. I hear the film is good, but would like to read the book first.

Some other Westerns on my TBR list:
Lonesome Dove by McMurtry
The Master Executioner by Loren D. Estleman (Western noir)
The Oxbow Incident by Walter Van Tilbert Clark
Treasures of the Sierra Madre by B. Traven
The Virginian by Owen Wister
Warlock by Oakley Hall

Marge

maryz · « **Reply #23 on:** December 23, 2010, 03:03:20 PM »

Our favorite family western is Monte Walsh by Jack Schaeffer. Schaeffer also wrote Shane, which is more well-known. We've read both books and seen movies made of them. In our opinion, Monte Walsh is by far the better book, but the movies made from it were mediocre (with Tom Selleck's being maybe the best). Shane was not nearly as good a book, but a much better movie.

marjifay · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2010, 08:45:57 PM »

Thanks, MaryZ, for your recommendation of Monte Walsh by Jack Scheffer. I've added it to my list. I already have Shane on my list.

Marj

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #25 on:** December 24, 2010, 09:10:16 PM »

Merry Christmas everyone. I am in North Texas (Dallas) for Xmas with Family. What a difference with rain and temperature in the 40's. It will be better tomorrow when it will be bright and sunny but cold and windy. I'll head back to San Antonio Monday at the latest. Again Merry Christmas to all.

It now looks like our "Empire of the Summer Moon" discussion will make, but it would be best if we could add several more participants. Any one out there who might be inclined to join us are welcome.

crescentwitch · « **Reply #26 on:** December 31, 2010, 09:18:43 AM »

hello, New here, I think this book sounds great, I'm just so excited to have found a book club.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #27 on:** December 31, 2010, 10:45:11 AM »

Welcome crescentwitch.

Frybabe · « **Reply #28 on:** December 31, 2010, 12:42:57 PM »

I'm happy you found us, cresentwitch. This is such a great group, I'm sure you will enjoy it.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #29 on:** December 31, 2010, 01:07:42 PM »

WELCOME CRESCENTWITCH!

We are so happy you have found us. We start our discussion of the book on February 1st. This is a nonfiction book, but we often, as you will learn when you click on our other discussions, have fiction to discuss. This month, January, is LITTLE BEE by Chris Cleave.

Both books are truly good reads.

Jonathan · « **Reply #30 on:** December 31, 2010, 01:30:25 PM »

It is a great book. I got mine yesterday, the last copy in the store, and I can't put it down. This is the best thing I've read since the ILIAD.

ALF43 · « **Reply #31 on:** December 31, 2010, 02:56:30 PM »

I was in Barnes & Noble most of the morning enjoying my "free slurpie" and reading free for one hour. I decided that i liked the ebook so I bought it online. While I was there I looked for Empire of the summer Moon just to see what maps, pictures, etc- what ever I will miss while I read it on my Nook. The book had completely sold out and the computer showed that they were awaiting shipment for more books. Now that is the beauty of my Nook.

Crescentwitch- I love your "handle" here- as I've been called a witch many times myself, it's good to have company. I know that you will be delighted with this wonderful group of readers that we have on Seniorlearn. Come on over for our January selection to Little Bee which Traude and I will be leading.
By the time I get ready here for Ella and Harold's selection, I'll be plumb-tuckered out chasing thru Nigeria with Little Bee and our readers.

Thank you Jonathan for the Kudos for the "Empire...." book, I haven't started it as of yet.

maryz · « **Reply #32 on:** December 31, 2010, 03:00:27 PM »

Alf, in the BookTV interview I saw with Gwynne, the only complaint that was registered about his book was the lack of maps - and I totally agree. There was only one map in the front of the book - and that not a very good one. Gwynne agreed and said he hoped that could be corrected in subsequent editions. So don't worry about not having them on the Nook - they aren't there.

ALF43 · « **Reply #33 on:** December 31, 2010, 03:22:56 PM »

Cool! Thanks MaryZ, now I don't feel so bad about missing the book then. I love maps, personally and learn a lot while reading with a map.

maryz · « **Reply #34 on:** December 31, 2010, 03:39:09 PM »

I'm with you, Alf. We grew up in Texas, so are familiar with a lot of the geography, but I'd still have liked lots more maps. There is a section of photographs, and I don't know how they'll show up for you.

Frybabe · « **Reply #35 on:** December 31, 2010, 05:36:21 PM »

I guess Google Maps (or Earth) is going to get a workout.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #36 on:** January 01, 2011, 09:47:43 AM »

Happy New Year everybody! It was a great new year here in San Antonio. I watched it on TV with a friend. After a chili supper we watched the PBS NY program symphony program, then the Time Square ball drop, ending with our new year here in San Antonio where there was a crow or 250,000 people downtown on S. Alamo street at the old Hemisphere site with spectacular fireworks that really lit the sky for some 30 minutes. It was an impressive evening.

crescentwitch · « **Reply #37 on:** January 01, 2011, 11:56:08 AM »

Thank you everyone for the wonderful welcome. My name is Kay, but the crescentwitch handle fits. I purchased both books yesterday, started them both. I will participate in the summer moon and little bee. I think these books will make me think in ways I have shut off for a long time. I am a counselor in a prison, lots of injustice and pain, so I have become hardened. I am looking forward to feeling again, even if it is uncomfortable.

ALF43 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 01, 2011, 01:23:54 PM »

Bless your heart Kay, you'll be fine. If you can admit to feeling "hardened" and shut off you will flourish in a book discussion. We all bring a part of our own selves into a discussion and that is what makes it work so well.
Heck, we'll be old friends by the time we finish these next two books together.

Jane or whom-ever. Thank you for fixing this spell check.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #39 on:** January 03, 2011, 05:25:13 PM »

KAY, we are happy to have you with us. And you are a counselor in prison!! How interesting, but, as you say, pain and injustice must be a part of life there. Welcome again!

HELLO ALF.

MAPS, YES, INDEED! We need them. How can this author write a book and just include this one map, showing Indian territory in the mid 1800's!

Don't you long to know just where in Texas it all is today? I know when deciding on the book we, Harold and I, said we definitely will need maps of rivers!! Where most of the Indians camped.

BUT DON'T READ AHEAD TOO FAR! WE HAVE A WHOLE MONTH YET AND YOU WILL FORGET THE BOOK BY THEN!!WAIT, WAIT! Tuck it away until then.

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Author Topic: Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne ~ February Book Club Online (Read 141064 times)