Old Filth by Jane Gardam ~ June Bookclub Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

June Bookclub Online  Everyone is welcome!

Old Filth
 by Jane Gardam

"The opening pages of the book find Filth (Sir Edward Feathers), a retired but still unassailable old barrister whose reputation has grown to such mythic proportions that it obstructs the hard truths of a man so damaged by his past that he has found himself forever unable to love. It's only as Filth toddles gracefully into old age that he can begin to rediscover the parts of himself that he has locked away and come to terms with the dark secrets that made him the man he became."   (Reviewed by Maggie O'Farrell) The novelist,  Jane Gardam was born  in Coatham, North Yorkshire on July  11. 1928. Her title character's late-in-life questions about whether his life has had meaning are especially moving—and universal, given this author's own experience and age. “Both witty and poignant, this work is more than a character study; through her protagonist, Gardam offers a view of the last days of empire as seen from post-9/11 Britain.  Borrowing from biography and history, Gardam has written a literary masterpiece that retraces much of of the 20th century's torrid and momentous history.”   Library Journal

click on map twice to enlarge

Discussion Schedule for next week:

June 1 - June 5   ~ Part I  Scene:  Inner Temple; The Donheads; Kotakinakulu; Inner Temple  pgs.  1 - 48  (up to the Wales Chapter)

Some Topics for Consideration
June 1 - 5

1.  What did you learn of Filth's career in Hong Kong from Jane Gardam's economical dialog in the first chapter?  Where  is "The Inner Temple"? Who are the Benchers?  The Queen's Remembrancer?
  
2.  How do you picture Filth?  Does anything stand out in Gardam's description of the man?

3.  Does Filth seem depressed to you?  How did his wife's death affect him?  

4.  Why did Filth and Betty choose to retire in Dorset after a lifetime in Hong Kong?  Why would long-time foe, Terry Veneering, choose to live right next door to him?  Is there anything else that seems mysterious?

5.  Why would  Alistair Feathers  resist sending his motherless son away, since he has had no contact and shown no feeling for the boy?Why does he resist sending the boy away, he has no contact with him?

6.  Why does Auntie May participate in these "hateful kidnappings if she detests them so much?  What is her concern for the boy in Wales?  He will have relatives nearby.


Related Links:
 UK Legal System  (rosemarykaye);
 The British Empire;
 A Brief Biography of Rudyard Kipling;
 Kipling's "Baa Baa Black Sheep";

Discussion Leaders:   Traude  & Joan P

[JoanP]

A big warm welcome to all newcomers to this discussion -

...and to those who are still waiting for your copy of the book, it won't be difficult to catch up, as we've scheduled only the first 50 pages or so for discussion this week. Please keep an eye on the heading - we promise to keep it up to date and ask you to try not to move ahead of those scheduled chapters in your comments. (In other words, don't set foot in the Wales chapter yet.)

There's so much to talk about - we know you are eager to get started!
We learn a lot about Filth in the first chapter - but there are also questions raised.  Eager to hear your thoughts!

[straudetwo]

It's after midnight, and I'm here to second JoanP's Big Warm Welcome.

You have the floor and we are looking forward to hear your thoughts.

[Steph]

Just checking in early since I need to go for my walk. Dogs are calling.. I have just begun the book, so will wait to read some other comments.

[JoanP]

Off for my terrier walk too, Steph...  There's quite a bit to talk about -  Jane Gardham has said so much in just the first two pages!

What questions about Filth are raised in these opening pages?  (Are you having trouble referring to this man as "Filth"?)  

 Do we need our UK solicitor,  rosemarykaye to explain some of these legal terms? Can you guess who the Benchers are?  The Queen's Remembrancer?  Where to you sense they are having this conversation?

[Babi]

 June 1st.   I'm here; book's not.   

[CallieOK]

Good Morning.   I'm looking forward to seeing what each participant has to say.

[MaryH]

I just finished reading up to the Wales chapter. Wow, so much to think about presented in so few pages. 

My first impression is that Betty and Old Filth are quite a team.  (By the way, do we have to call him that? How about Sir Edward or just Edward.)  And while they are perfect for retiring in Hong Kong, they don’t.  It’s as if it is so out of the question that they don’t even discuss it.  Something big must have happened for them to leave a place they for which they are so well suited.

Then there is the long standing rivalry between Old Filth and Veneering.  On this topic, Betty is quiet and uncomfortable.  When Old Filth learns that Veneering is living next door his first thought is, “Well, thank God Betty’s gone.”  That seems like a protective response.  I wonder if the big thing that happened in Hong Kong is why Old Filth would want to shield Betty from Veneering?

[Ella Gibbons]

Hi MARYH!  Yes, I think there is a mystery here.  What happened between Filth and Veering in Hong Kong?  Just rivalry at Court, do you think, or something else?   

But I remember reading that Filth has painful memories of Hong Kong - "I am trained to forget, otherwise, how could I function"  he says.  He condemned men to death there, 50% of his cases had gone wrong, he lived in an enclave behind steel gates "guarded night and day."

Betty and he felt safe back in England.  She gardened, he read mysteries and biographies and was admired, was remembered by his peers.

I have no idea what or who the Benchers were or the Queen's Remembrancer.  Something to do with the court system  etc. in Great Britain.

[bellamarie]

RosemaryK~Thank you so much for all the info in the pre-discussion I do hope we can have it copied into our present discussion. I am totally ignorant to anything and everything British other than I am a bit fixated on the Royal family so I found it fascinating. You always come through for us when our books are based in some region near or in England.

I am not someone who reads ahead so up to Wales is where I stopped!  

I felt so sad for Edward when he returned at the age of four, and his father gave him no attention.  Then when Alistair says, "I say you can. I am your father." As the saying goes out of the mouth of babes when Edward replied, "You can't be....Because you've been here all the time without me."  Children are so much more aware than we give them credit for.  

I've always felt British people to be a bit detached from emotions, and it makes me wonder if being sent away from their family at such a young age, and for such a long time is the effect of this.  It is intresting how the mother stays back with the father.

I rather like the dynamics of Veneering and Old Filth, anxious to see if we see more of them.  I was a bit confused and disappointed how we were in present time with Old Filth and Veneering and then all of a sudden we jump to his past, giving us his birth etc.  Wasn't quite prepared for that.

Egads....I decided to listen to the interview with Jane from the link provided  in our heading, I had to stop because it gives away too much from chapters I have not read yet.  I would like to suggest placing a warning beside it for those who don't want future chapter information.

Ciao for now~

[Gumtree]

The Queen's Remembrancer is an judicial office that dates from medieval times - it's fascinating to read of the Remembrancer's duties etc.

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Remembrancer

[JoanP]

Eddie?  Teddy?  Fevvers?  Edward?  What shall we call him, MaryH?  Does he refer to himself as "Filth"?  Or is that the narrator?  What does he call himself?

I'm still puzzled at the meaning of FILTH... does it imply that Sir Edward had some bad luck in London that caused him to "fail" and flee to Hong Kong?  To me, that's something of a mystery.  Everyone seems to be calling him "Filth" at the Inner Temple.

And Ella, I agree, Veneering is a mystery too, isn't he?  I love the way Gardam drops little mysterious  comments that must mean something.  I feel we're in the good hands of a master storyteller - confident that she will circle around and fill us in later - and not leave us hanging.  Why would he move next door to Filth?
I don't know what to make of Betty,   Isn't she rather tweedy -maybe even dumpy - compared to Filth?

Bellamarie - how about we table the BBC interview with Jane Gardam for a later date - and put the page with Rosemary's information on the legal system in the heading in its place.  THanks for pointing out the problem with the interview.

Gum, today is Bruce's birthday - we're on the way out for the evening.  I am really interested in reading what you found about the Queen's Rememberer.  The way I'm forgetting things lately, I'd love to have my own personal "rememberer."  Had you ever heard of this term before reading it here?  I find myself wondering if Gardham's UK readership is more familier with her vocabulary.  How did you know that "conkers"  were shiney horsechestnuts.

Will be back later tonight.  Do tell, are you enjoying this book?  Do you find it humorous - in any way?

[Jonathan]

What are we to make of that inscription on the statue of a child, in the Inner Temple Garden?

Lawyers, I suppose, were children once.

It's the first thing we read after being stopped short by the strange title. Old Filth. Who, we are soon told, looks like he must be a hundred. It looks like we're promised a 'life'. It sounds like a success story. At my age I certainly don't need another cautionary tale.

But I'm wondering what the old Benchers get out of contemplating that inscription. Is it a comfort to them? Or an admonition? Or a wistful remembrance of lost innocence? I take it that the general public is not seen in the garden. Perhaps some misguided traveller looking for a room at the Inn sees some symbol in it.

[Jonathan]

I've just read your post, Joan. Yes, I'm enjoying it very much. So much so that I'm already into Gardam's next book: The Man in the Wooden Hat. Ha! It's Betty's side of the story.

[Jonathan]

My guess is that the title refers to his wealth. Like in 'filthy rich', when Benchers call a spade by its proper name.

[PatH]

Hi, everyone, I'm with you after all.  I didn't say anything before because I had trouble getting the book, and didn't want to commit until I'd looked at it and seen whether I liked it.  But I finally got it, have read up to "Wales"' and am ready to join in.  (Still have to read the pre-discussion, though.)

Back later.

[PatH]

We start right off knowing that O. F. has many suppressed memories.  "I am trained to forget.  Otherwise, how could I function?"  And although he has brought his wig back, and displays it for a while, he "had not brought the Black Cap home."  Rosemarykaye, correct me if I'm wrong; the Black Cap is put on by a judge when he pronounces a death sentence.

[straudetwo]

We were under a tornado warning from 4 p.m., when the sky suddenly turned dark and heavy thunderstorms began.
We watched continuous TV weather coverage for yours. At least two tornadoes touched down in the western part of the state and, at 8 p.m., our Governor declared the state of emergency.  The fast-moving system was especially disquieting because it spawned s handful bands toward the east and south.  Another thunderstorm is grumbling, and I need to post in a hurry.

Thank you for your posts and thoughts about our book. At first glance the title is off-putting but it explained by the author in the first chapter.
But we haven't yet discovered why Edward Feathers invented the acronym and form whom it was meant. Since we meet him late in his life, the possibilities are endless - until Gardam tells us. She briskly leads us through various ages of the main character, making us curious about his past and a mystery or mysteries.

On Question 1 I believe that The Inner Circle may be the Hallowed Halls of the Court, specifically the lunchroom where the jurists marvel and gossip about O.F.;  the name seems to be an honorific. I also seems to date back to his days in Hong Kong.  
His and Betty's decision to return to England apparently had to do with the changes  to be expected after the return of the colony to Chinese rule.  They had noticed that English was being spoken less as the years passed, and less well.  Betty, whose passion were jewels, was no longer given first choice when new gems arrived. There is mention of 1997.

Bellamarie,  I agree. The custom of sending a young child back to England for years is impossible to fathom.  Five or more years would elapse before the officers and their wives could take a "long vacation" in England. And even though such visits extended over a few months, the years of separation took their toll on the children. On the other hand, a daughter or son in boarding school can come home for school vacations.

Thunder is getting louder, I better quit for tonight.

[rosemarykaye]

Hello - I still don't have the book, because I thought the library had it but it appears it's still in transit from another branch 

Yes, the judge in a criminal court (eg The Old Bailey) would put on the black cap when pronouncing the death sentence.  Capital punishment was abolished in the UK in 1969 (I think), although in theory it could still have been meted out for some rare offences like treason until the 1990s. 

Rosemary

[rosemarykaye]

PS - a propos of sending children away, I know someone who was actually left at a boarding school aged 2, so that her parents could return to the husband's posting abroad.  Presumably she was left with the housemistress or something, as obviously she couldn't have attended classes.  I don't know her well enough to know all the details, but she does come from a very "upper crust" family.  She must be in her mid 50s now.

Rosemary

[Steph]

Way  behind because of the real trial I am w atching. Hopefully will have some time today to read..

[Gumtree]

JoanP:  Hope you and Bruce enjoyed his birthday... I've always known about 'conkers' - and thought everyone else would have too. It's a game played by small boys (well mostly). We used to play it but didn't always have the chestnuts so used the nuts from - guess what - gumtrees 

I must have learned about The Queen's ( or King's as the case may be) Remembrancer at school as the general gist of the position is 'just there' in my mind - like conkers.

I felt that the nickname 'Old Filth' is used affectionately and is in no way derogatory. He seems to be known by many names depending upon which character is talking about or to him. I like 'Fevvers' - it's almost like an Australian diminutive.

Traude: Stay safe.

[JoanP]

Good morning!

On this good morning, I just opened my email and find this good news from Jane Gardam's publicist/agent -
"Though she deep into writing a new novel, but she [Jane Gardam] would be happy to answer a few questions via email."

Goodness - she is "deep into writing" - another novel!  I'm really impressed, aren't you? She was born in 1928!  I wonder if she is writing more of Sir Edward. Does anyone know the title of her last book?  Jonathan, when was The Man in the Wooden Hat written, do you know?  You say this is Betty's story.  What can the title mean?

Let's start a page with questions you'd like to put to the author.  Just type them in your posts and we'll scoop them up.  Since she did say she had time for a "few" questions, we will have to be selective -but we can try to condense as many as possible into the few questions that we do send.

As soon as I read your posts this morning, I intend to write to the author and thank her for the  generous offer of her time.

[Ella Gibbons]

What a good "lot" of posts.  TRAUDE, my sister lives in MA and was worried about it all also, but it has gone, these tornadoes are frightening. 

JOANP, I, too,  very much need a Remembrancer; am thankful for postit notes which are on my kitchen counter for the week!  Even at that, I do forget, but what the heck, I'm older than FILTH, I believe.  Isn't he just 80?  I must go look. 

I want to put my arms around Filth and give him a hug, I know what it is to be lonely and have lost a spouse.    He talks to Betty, he even talks to the little boy he used to be -

"Edward, Edward, stop these fantasies!  You are too old, You are no longer seven......Good God, I'm going senile."

He calls himself EDWARD, so we can, of course, but I rather like Old Filth, it's an affectionate nickname as GUMTREE remarked.

The inscription, JONATHAN, a guess.  Lawyers were once upon a time innocent?  But I have no idea, really.

[rosemarykaye]

Wow Joan, that is fantastic!  Jane Gardam does always seem to come across as a Good Person when you read any interviews with her.

The only questions I can think of so far do not really relate to Old Filth, so you may not want to put them - what I would like to know is, how much do her two novels "Bilgewater" and "A Long Way From Verona" reflect her own childhood in the North East?  Bilgewater is my absolute favourite of all of her novels that I have read.

Rosemary

[JoanP]

Many of yesterday's posts centered on "THE INNER TEMPLE" - which Traude suggests  may be The Inner Circle, "the Hallowed Halls of the Court, specifically the lunchroom where the jurists marvel and gossip about O.F.;  the name seems to be an honorific dating back to his days in Hong Kong. "
(terrible storm, Traude.  Is it my imagination, or have there been more numerous and more deadly tornadoes this season?  I heard that hurricane season started yesterday and they are predicted to be more numerous and dangerous than usual as well.  Mercy!)

So.  You are coming up with a number of possible meanings for the book's title.
  "An honorific name given to Sir Edward, dating back to his days in Hong Kong."
   "refers to his wealth. Like in 'filthy rich"
There was a reference in the opening pages to his reputation for his Pollution Law - "Filth on Filth," they called it.  I wonder when he became known for that - before Hong Kong?
I wonder if we will hear more about that.

Jonathan, can you point me to the child statue in the garden - somehow I read right past that - and would love to read it again. "Lawyers, I suppose, were children once."  A curious inscription, I agree. Is it a comfort to the Benchers, you ask - "or a wistful remembrance of lost innocence?
Let's talk for a while about the idea of lost innocence.  

Ella - "He condemned men to death there, 50% of his cases had gone wrong, he lived in an enclave behind steel gates "guarded night and day."  ?  50% had gone wrong?  Whoa!  For some reason, I thought Veneering was the Judge - and Filth, a barrister.  I must have misunderstood that...

PatH  (Welcome, welcome - so glad you will be joining us!)  -  

"I am trained to forget.  Otherwise, how could I function?"  And although he has brought his wig back, and displays it for a while, he "had not brought the Black Cap home"

Rosemary - "Yes, the judge in a criminal court (eg The Old Bailey) would put on the black cap when pronouncing the death sentence."
So, Filth WAS a judge, then.  And if he did not bring the Black Cap home, he is trying to forget as Ella wrote - "I am trained to forget, otherwise, how could I function"
Ella, it seems that our man Filth has a lot to forget, doesn't he?  Lost innocence."

Gum, thank you once again for the information about the Queen's Romancer -  "the oldest judicial position in continual existence
whose purpose was 'to put the Lord Treasurer and the Barons of Court in remembrance of such things as were to be called upon and dealt with for the benefit of the Crown', a primary duty being to keep records of the taxes, paid and unpaid."  It will be interesting to see if the Remembrancer will have a role as the story unfolds.

Do you see the important role you are playing as our translator? First "conkers" and now "remembrancer" - terms you take for granted that we in the colonies are familiar with!
How about "Donheads" - does the term mean anything to you?   It seems to be the name of Sir Edward's country estate.   Is it a place?  A town?

[JoanP]

Rosemary - great!  Will start the page of questions for  Jane Gardam with yours  - on "her childhood in the North East."   (rosemary - "North East"? Can you explain that to us?)

Let us know when you find Filth's exact age, Ella.  And see if you can tell how long ago Betty has died.  I thought it was interesting that the two of them were in London to change their wills in the opening chapter and the next thing we know, Betty is gone.  I wonder what they intended to do that day with their wills?  

Yes, he brings out our sympathetic response... thank you for bringing those examples of his talking to himself.  Not only does he talk to himself - he's starting to hear voices, did you notice that?  Maybe he's just imagining things.  He's very much alone, isn't he?  His whole life.  .  

Hmmm - he's calling himself "Edward."  Have you noticed what Betty used to call him? (I'm quite sure it wasn't "Filth.")

What did you think of Jane Gardam's manner of describing Filth? Did you find anything unusual or surprising about his apppearance?

[rosemarykaye]

By North East I meant the north east of England (not Scotland) - I think Gardam was brought up in the Middlesbrough/Redcar area, and that is where those two books are set.  In A Long Way From Verona, the heroine is a young girl at a school that is visited by an elderly writer.  When he is leaving, she rushes after him and thrusts her own writing at him.  If memory serves me right (which is unlikely!), he then writes to her, saying something like "Jessica Vye, you are a writer beyond all possible doubt" - one assumes that this is at least partly biographical.

Rosemary

[Jonathan]

'The "Donheads." It seems to be the name of Sir Edward's country estate.'

Actually, Joan, Sir Edward's country estate is an 'excellently modernized old farmhouse.' I got that from her most recent book (The Man In The Wooden Hat, 2009). The opening paragraph goes like this:

There is a glorious part of England known as the Donheads. The Donheads are a triangle of villages loosely interlinked by winding lanes and identified by the names of saints. ' There is Donhead St Mary, Donhead St Andrew, Donhead St James and among yet others, Donhead St Ague.

I think we are also told that this is in Dorset country. Outsiders, however, call the Donheads 'Thomas Hardy country.

What's in a name? Everything, I guess. Each one chooses the aspect of  our main character's adventure through life as reflected by the variety of names. I like Sir Edward. For a start.

So many questions come up reading Old Filth.  And I can hear the answer to all of them. Read my book, The Man In The Wooden Hat. But it's something on the cover flap of TMITWH that gets a question from me. All her rewards are richly deserved; but how does she feel about being awarded the OBE in 2009?  (Order of the British Empire) Didn't the evacuation of Hong Kong in 1997 spell the end of the Empire? I suppose if the Remembrencer is still around after 800 years, in this digital age, why shed the imperial glory.

The inscription, 'Lawyers, I suppose, were children once,' is on a page by itself, preceding the dedication page, with its 'To Raj Orphans and their Parents.'

[Ella Gibbons]

Dorset in the Donheads - where Betty and Filth retired - looks lovely:  http://www.thedorsetpage.com/Dorset_Home.htm

What title are you looking for JOANP?  Do you mean Failed in London, Try Hong Kong.   Why, do you think, he failed in London?  Did I miss that?

Yes, he was a judge; he put off "making judge for as long as possible so that he hadn't to live on a salary."  But Betty had money.   They lived well in both places it seems.  No children, servants, lovely home.

I read the Wooden Hat book sometime ago, how quickly I have forgotten the details as there have been a few books in between. 

 

[Babi]

 Just got my book and have started reading it.  So far I gather Sir Edward
is called that, affectionately, because he was the originator of the acronym.
I also gathered that they did not retire in Hong Kong because they were very
aware of the changes coming and that Hong Kong would not continue to be the
place they had come to love.
  One thing that raised a question in my mind, was the description of Chinese
values and characteristics by Sir E.  Most of them were familiar to me, but
what do you think he meant by the "sudden thrust"?

[BarbStAubrey]

Having read along the pre-discussion posts I wasn't so sure I wanted to read this after all - my impulse was to dig out all my books on abandonment issues and the affects of childhood abandonment in adults - not fun stuff - however, from these posts so far abandonment issues do not seem to be the major focus although, if the author was one of these sent-to-public-schools-away-from-family-at-a-young-age - then the abandonment characteristics are going to be a part of her story and characters - ah so - nothing that can't be understood - and so I hope I am not shooting myself in the foot but I will get into the book this weekend along with another that Marcie and I are putting together for July.

I've never traveled to the east however, I have helped some Asian folks from Hong Cong as well as a family from Taiwan - it could be personality or age but I remember the two I helped separately each were very confident and held themselves almost like they were graduates of a military academy which is different than the posture and way of the others I have worked with from China, Indonesia, Viet Nam and Taiwan. I do not think either of the two from Hong Cong were mixed race but there was a difference.

[straudetwo]

JoanP, yes, as Jonathan said, Gardam wrote The Man in The Wooden Hat in 2009, five years after Old Filth, and that is her last novel to date. It is marvelous to hear she's working on a new novel !  And yes,  TMITWH is  Betty's story. I'm anxious to read it.

It's wonderful that Jane Gardam has generously agreed to answer a few questions. One of them could be about the meaning of the inscription "Lawyers, I suppose, were once children once".  We are bound to have more questions as we continue. our reading.

Barbara, it is good to have you aboard. In reply to your post let me say that both the main character and his wife were British children born to parents stationed in British-administered colonies. Both were sent to England as young children (at different times) because that was the practice, the norm, and an accepted custom. It was considered necessary to ensure  the children's health and their education. (There were no schools for English children in India, for example, and absolutely no fraternization.) The separations were long, and those children were called "Orphans of the Raj" for good reason,  but  it was not abandonment in the minds of the parents.

The historian Margaret MacMillan (Paris 1919) has written a highly informative book about the memsahibs, as the British wives were called, titled Women of the Raj, and I recommend it.

This book is about the life of the character Old Filth, and we do learn about the years he spent in Wales with foster parents,  followed by  periods spent in schools, and beyond. Within the framework of the story, the narrative is factual and objective, and no arguments are made about the practice itself of sending young Anglo children Home.

I hope you'll stay with us and will enjoy this book.

Gumtree et al,  thank you. There was more damage in western Mass. than first reported; heart-rending stories of survivors, a visit by Senator Kerry, and the Governor's promise of help to rebuild. 

[Steph]

I am now reading, but am not quite finished with this weeks assignment. Thus far, it is all introduction.

[rosemarykaye]

I still haven't got the book  but it did occur to me that another writer who would give you some idea of how the Inns of Court work is John Mortimer.  He wrote all of the Rumpole (of the Bailey) books (which were televised with Leo McKern in the title role), and was a barrister himself - in fact when I used to work in the Middle Temple I occasionally saw him tottering across the courtyard.  His father was also a very successful barrister, the subject of Mortimer's play "Voyage Round My Father" - his father was in fact blind, but the family never mentioned this, and he continued to practice, with his long-suffering wife reading the briefs (instructions to counsel from solicitors, which traditionally come tied up in ribbon) to him every day.

Rosemary

[JoanP]

"Lawyers, I suppose, were children once" - quote from Charles Lamb

"Lawyers, I suppose, were children once. They are awakening images to them at least. Why must every thing smack of man, and mannish? Is the world grown up? Is childhood dead? Or is there not in the bosoms of the wisest and the best some of the child's heart left, to respond to its earliest enchantments?"OLD BENCHERS OF THE INNER TEMPLE

"I had a mother, but she died, and left me,
Died prematurely in a day of horrors -
All, all are gone, the old familiar faces."  Charles Lamb, essayist, poet

If you were to take a walk on the Inner Temple garden today, you would see the boy  with his book-  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/saltation/173712193/sizes/m/in/photostream/

And if you looked at the book close up, you would see the inscription -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saltation/173712296/in/photostream/

I think we were not far off in our conclusion that the statue represented the lost innocence of childhood, were we?  But Lamb's essay, from which the inscription was taken, seems to go further...

"...is there not in the bosoms of the wisest and the best some of the child's heart left, to respond to its earliest enchantments?"

Jonathan, I think you're right - the inscription is probably a comfort to the strolling Benchers.

Barbara, I think you will be pleasantly rewarded, as the story unfolds... Will bet you lunch that you'll say you are glad you read it at the conclusion...

[bellamarie]

JoanP[/b

]~"I'm still puzzled at the meaning of FILTH... does it imply that Sir Edward had some bad luck in London that caused him to "fail" and flee to Hong Kong?  To me, that's something of a mystery.  Everyone seems to be calling him "Filth" at the Inner Temple.

According to Jane in her interview Edward's "friend's from the bar called him  Old Filth, not out of irony--because he was considered the source of the old joke, a very bad joke, Failed In London Try Hong Kong.  He fled the bar at a very young age, very poor, he did magnificently well in Hong Kong from the start"

I see his colleague's snubbing their noses at Edward because he chose to go to Hong Kong rather than practice law in London, and they may have been a bit envious of the fact he was indeed very successful.  Edward did not actually fail in London, more so he chose to forego London.  I think the Brits would feel a bit insulted, and so in their inner circle/Temple the joke was to call him Old Filth, an old inside joke with the bar.

"Lawyers, I suppose, were children once" - quote from Charles Lamb

How interesting you found Lamb's quote, Jane in her interview when asked about the statement said, "I tend to see in people's faces the child's face. The child's face is the most important face we have."  She made no reference to Lamb's quote, yet it is so ironic they are the exact same. 

Joan when you compile the questions for Jane I would love you to ask her if she realized her quote and Lamb's are indeed the same.

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

Thanks, Bellamarie, that makes sense.  Failed in London, does not actually mean that he failed in London.  But why did he leave? Because he was poor?  Was the only reason he went to Hong Kong because he wanted more money?

 Steph, yes, the first 50 pages all seem to be one big introduction to get us up to the present day.  First we have to understand where these characters came from to get to the present.  I think.  What do you think of this going back and forth in time?  Do you find it puzzlng - or do you understand why the author is doing it...can you follow her logic for it?

It seems the present is this Christmas - Betty has been gone for two years now.  Yet he still speaks to her as if she is there.  Is this in character?

I'm enjoying her brief character sketches - so clear though, that I can see each character as if she presented the details of a photograph.  Filth's cleanliness is stressed to the extreme.  Certainly Filth is not "filthy."  And he's disciplined.  He's trained himself to forget unpleasantries.   Whatever happened at the Didd's in Wales, whatever happened in Hong Kong between Veneering and Betty (if anything did)...he's trained himself to live a routine.  Has he really forgotten the 50% of cases he misjudged?

Have to run...so many good posts - back later this evening~

ps. Rosemary, forwarded your question on to J.G. - curious to see her response...

[bellamarie]

JoanP~ Filth's cleanliness is stressed to the extreme.  Certainly Filth is not "filthy."  And he's disciplined.  He's trained himself to forget unpleasantness.

I like how you pointed this out, Jane really took the time to make certain we saw Edward as NOT filth in the sense of uncleanliness.  In her interview she talks about Edward being, "Spectacularly clean, established and elegance of the 1920's"  She goes on to list the brand names of his clothing, the stores he bought them at and even the expensive material they were made of.  She wanted the readers to see him very distinguished.  

Maybe in the next chapters we will find out why Edward decided to leave at such a young age to go to Hong Kong.  Was there more opportunity in Hong Kong with the ending of the war?  It will be interesting to find out.  

I found it very confusing going back and forth in his time frames.  I can appreciate his loneliness for Betty, and yes after you lose a loved one it is believable to find one thinking the person is still there, or even talking out loud to the person.  Personally from losing my mother, I found her spirit to be about daily and found myself responding to things I felt she was saying to me.  I feel Jane did a great job in making us feel Edward and Betty's closeness, affection and love for each other.

Thank you for the links to the pictures how neat to see them.  What do you suppose this meant, it is under the pic in the second link....(Nasty vicious spiteful children of limited intellect)


Ciao for now~

[salan]

I am back from grandson sitting in Dallas and the library has my book.  I will pick it up on Monday and hopefully catch up.  I am waiting to read posts until I get the book. 
Sally