Author Topic: Elegance of the Hedgehog ~ Muriel Barbery ~ Prediscussion (Read 32166 times)

JoanP · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2009, 08:38:30 AM »

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"Prickly and popular novel on class and culture" -

"Central to the book's appeal is the compelling voice of its main character, Renée Michel, a 54-year-old Paris apartment-building concierge who struggles to hide her self-taught erudition and cultivation from snobby, rich tenants. She disdains their élitist notions of class and social order, but she knows the residents would be outraged at discovering what a deep grasp the hired help has of art and learning. So Renée masks her intellect behind the persona expected of her lowly station." Time Magazine

The second narrator in the book is the precocious 12 year old daughter of one of the tenants, who hides her intelligence from a world she finds meaningless. The two characters neatly mirror one another in a philosophical tale of contrasts which succeeds in resolving some issues of life and death.

Discussion Schedule:

April 1-3 ~ Marx Preamble ~ pgs.17-27
April 4-10 ~ Camellias ~ pgs.31-129
April 11-14 ~ On Grammar ~ pgs.133-166
April 15-19 ~ Summer Rain ~ pgs.173-238
April 20-26 ~ Paloma ~ pgs. 241-315
April 27 ~ My Camellias ~ pgs. 316-325
Final Thoughts

Topics for Pre-discussion

1. What do you know of hedgehogs and their habits? Do you see anything "elegant" about these critters?

2. Can you find information about this first-time author? We could use a link if you can copy it here.

3. This has been called a "philosophical fable"? Intimidated? What is your knowledge of philosophy?

4. How difficult must it be to have one's first novel immediately become an international best seller?

5. What is a "concierge"? Wouldn't you love this job in a posh Parisian neighborhood?

Discussion Leaders: JoanP & Eloise

JoanP · « **Reply #41 on:** March 20, 2009, 08:53:32 AM »

Good morning, Jude - and welcome! Your travel schedule will work perfectly with ours...we will certainly look for you in ten days.
So, the hedgehog is "ubiquitous" in Israel...like squirrels perhaps? And children collect the quills... the quills rather than their elegance) are what I find fascinating about the hedgehog right now. We are told they are not like the quills of the porcupine, and yet in this site you can see that the hedgehog can use them to kill snakes!

The little fellow wrapped in quills in the heading does so as protection? When he is frightened? Hmmm, Is our concierge frightened of something? I'm surely going to be watchful for that when we get into the story.

Eloise, thank you for those photos of the author at her book signings. Gum - the photos don't match up with the philosophy professor image, do they? (are you disappointed?) From the book publisher, we learn that Ms. Barbery will be in the US for a mini book tour in April - but only CA and New York. I think she will be in Albany for a conference. Do we have anyone from upstate NY or San Francisco here? As Elegance of the Hedgehog climbs in the New York Times Bestseller List - March
perhaps she will extend the book tour while she is here!

ps - JoanK, that was quick service. I'm glad you have your book in hand. Jackie, I hope that your library hold list is not as long as ours is here in Arlington. I'm #82 on the list! (I did buy my own copy...) Will keep fingers crossed for you!

Eloise · « **Reply #42 on:** March 21, 2009, 08:26:56 AM »

Did you ever see a more elegant heading? I think it is absolutely perfect. We can thank Joan P and Pat who designed it. They did an exceptional job of balance and style. The book cover is classy and the first paragraph on the right explains but doesn't reveal and the second paragraph leaves you wanting to know what has made this book so popular. Thank you Joan P and Pat for your fine work on this heading you are both so artistic I am sure it will draw many more people to the discussion.

joangrimes · « **Reply #43 on:** March 21, 2009, 10:31:40 AM »

Eloise,

I am certainly wondering what has made this book so popular...I will admit that so far I haven't found anything that has really captured me in this book. I do keep plugging on because it is set in Paris. Of course what attracted me in the first place was the Hedgehog title. I will keep trying to find what there is to attract so many people to it.

The heading of the discussion is really quite elegant.

Joan Grimes

Eloise · « **Reply #44 on:** March 21, 2009, 01:05:38 PM »

Many authors dream of getting their books onto best-seller lists, but few pull it off with the panache of French writer Muriel Barbery. Her second novel, The Elegance of the Hedgehog, has been at or near the top of France's sales charts for 102 straight weeks since its September 2006 publication. It has been translated into a half-dozen languages and is being adapted for film. In South Korea and Italy, the book has generated the same sort of enthusiasm and devotion that made it a publishing phenomenon in France. Now, with the release of an English translation on Sept. 7, Elegance is pursuing a goal that has proved devilishly elusive for modern French novelists: success in the U.S. and Britain. Barbery acknowledges the challenge. "But given what the book has done elsewhere thus far, I guess I'm willing to believe anything is possible," she says. "It has been like a dream." underlining is mine

This is taken from the Times link in the heading. I don't utually agree with the gushing written about a popular book, but I have to make an exception for this one. It's not like other books where the locale and the character's culture make it hard to translate and be understood in other languages, this one is universal. There is a reason why it is so popular in the US and Britain. It is popular because Barbery has the key to undress people's facade and reaveal what's at the core of individuals.

I don't know if the author's Philosophy Professorship has anything to do with the quality of her writing, but, but, wait, I don't want to say too much before people start reading it.

Please continue reading it Joan, and I think you will agree later on that there is something special here. Don't read it too fast, wait for us, we haven't started it yet. We still have 10 days before we start for good.

Meantime for those who are undecided, do get this book, you won't be required to read it 3 times like I did.

straudetwo · « **Reply #45 on:** March 21, 2009, 07:18:33 PM »

Éloïse, I too saw that review, but attracted me originally was the Washington Post review by Michael Dirda. That's when I set out to get the book and proposed it to the local group.
The proposal was accepted in good faith. What happened at our discussion is not the issue, of course.
I bought the book and it is well marked (!). On the cover is a pre-teen girl. Cold this be a hint that there are two main characters?

Since the schedule has been laid out it is not a spoiler to mention the chapter on grammar. I may be forgiven for my curiosity, but this is my field and I'dLOVE

straudetwo · « **Reply #46 on:** March 21, 2009, 07:28:24 PM »

an iunwanted interruption here.
To continue.
...I'd love to see the French words Muriel used for the grammatical inaccuracies, because surely the translation could only be an approximation. There is much more to say about this when the time comes.

Eloise · « **Reply #47 on:** March 21, 2009, 08:49:09 PM »

Traude, I am afraid that I'd better not post in French here in case somebody would not understand it and we will be discussing the English version, but I will email you a paragraph in both languages if it would please you.

There is always something lost in translation as we know, but I still believe that this book will provide us with a lively discussion that I am sure we will all enjoy.

straudetwo · « **Reply #48 on:** March 21, 2009, 09:45:27 PM »

Éloïse, no, no, of course we don't need the French examples of inaccuracy here. Absolutely not. I am sorry, this is much too early to even mention this.

But since foreign languages, linguistics, translating and interpreting are my métier, I wondered what French verb forms that were objected to and how Alison Anderson rendered them in her English translation. My apologies for bringing this up; after all, we are only in the pre-discussion.

It is not a burning issue for anybody but me

and I have considered ordering the book from Schoenhof's Foreign Language Book Store in Cambridge, Mass. I know from long experience that they have absolutely everything

joangrimes · « **Reply #49 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:29:32 PM »

Oh , I would love to read the whole book in French, Eloise. I would probably enjoy it more in French. I think I will see if I can find a copy in French somewhere on the Internet and order it.

Joan Grimes

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #50 on:** March 22, 2009, 03:12:56 AM »

Hi - looking forward to the read -

Quote from: Eloise

There is a reason why it is so popular in the US and Britain. It is popular because Barbery has the key to undress people's facade and reveal what's at the core of individuals

Muriel Barbery may have the ability to reveal what is at the core of the human heart and soul but with sentences like these in casual response to a gift says to me she lives, thinks and breathes a way of expressing the common with joy, delight, innocent, courageous intuitiveness.

Quote from: Barbery at book signing

Touchée, coulée. Je fonds devant ce cadeau qui me touche beaucoup. [Touched, run. I melt in front of this gift, which touches me much.]

And how would we describe a hedgehog - based on the story of Lucy by Beatrix Potter, Brian Jacques's book series, Redwall and Kenneth Grahame's Wind in the Willows -

Quote from: from Wind in the Willows

In accordance with the kindly Badger's injunctions, the two tired animals came down to breakfast very late next morning, and found a bright fire burning in the kitchen, and two young hedgehogs sitting on a bench at the table, eating oatmeal porridge out of wooden bowls. The hedgehogs dropped their spoons, rose to their feet, and ducked their heads respectfully as the two entered.

'There, sit down, sit down,' said the Rat pleasantly, 'and go on with your porridge. Where have you youngsters come from? Lost your way in the snow, I suppose?'

The hedgehog/character expresses their common everyday life within a story with joy, delight, innocent, courageous intuitiveness. And yet, when we see a live hedgehog they are protectively covered in inch long stiff spines and (in relationship to their body) they have long legs. They usually move slowly but can run up to 6 feet a second.

As a result of the reference to the Hedgehog in both literature and in nature [yes, pet stores] I'm expecting the young girl on the cover to be a private person who is prickly on the outside while soft and endearing in her heart; who goes into her young life with courage and intuitiveness rather than as the smooth sophisticate who knows and does the socially correct like a well trained Beauceron or the popular Lab. This is not a young girl who will blend into the stonework but who will, in all her innocence, courageously walk into our hearts with all her spines in view. That is what I am expecting - we shall see what we shall see.

Eloise · « **Reply #51 on:** March 22, 2009, 08:36:44 AM »

Before I start my busy day I just wanted to say that I bought my French version of the book at Chapters Book store in Montreal and I believe Chapters is American based. I am sure you could get it online.

JoanP · « **Reply #52 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:22:26 PM »

Bonjour, tout le monde! Happy Sunday morning!

Oho - you have noticed - (so has the editor in chief of theUS version of The Elegance of the Hedgehog) - our selection of the international edition book cover! He wrote and even sent the gif for the US edition, which is probably more familiar to you all.

Eloise and I took a vote and thought the international cover was more "elegant." Another reason for the choice - I felt the U.S. edition cover spotlights the 12 year old Paloma as the protagonist of the story - when personally, I don't think that's at all true. We can discuss this in April.

Admittedly, we have two narrators.

Barbara, we are delighted to hear that you will be joining us - and I am marking you as one who has not yet read the book. Welcome!

Quote

"I'm expecting the young girl on the cover to be a private person who is prickly on the outside while soft and endearing in her heart."

We will certainly be looking to see if this is true as the story unfolds, Barb.
Do you suppose that we have two hedgehogs wrapped in prickly spines for protection from, from what?? The world? Society?

Barbara, quoting the Time magazine article -

Quote

Elegance is pursuing a goal that has proved devilishly elusive for modern French novelists: success in the U.S. and Britain

There are many levels on which each of us will respond to this book. I'm curious about its success in the U.S. - right now #10 on the New York Times Paperback Best Seller list. Philosophical fiction - how very French, delving into the meaning of life. This novel does so on a very personal level. I bet that it reaches each of us in a different way, no matter where we live. JoanG - will be interested in your response when the discussion gets underway!

Interesting comments about variations in translation - and grammar usage too, Traudee. Does grammar usage reveal something about social class? So happy you and JoanG are going to be in a position to compare Barbery's French and English , Eloise.

straudetwo · « **Reply #53 on:** March 22, 2009, 05:45:32 PM »

JoanP, in answer to your last question: No. IMHO proper grammar does not bespeak social class but rather a solid basic education.
It bothers me to I hear somebody say (and I have) "I shouldn't have DID this" or "He must have WENT the other way". Ohhhhhhhhhh.
Still, I brought it up prematurely and I apologize.

But yes, we do have two narrators, and the younger of them is pictured on the cover of the Europa edition - so this is not a spoiler.

JoanK · « **Reply #54 on:** March 22, 2009, 09:26:46 PM »

JoanP, Straude: I'm amazed to hear that language usage does not bespeak social class. It certainly does in England, and less obviously in the US. I can't believe that it doesn't in France. What do you say, Eloise?

Jude: when and where did you live in Israel? I lived in beer Sheva from 1963 to 66. We have another member (Bubble) who lives in Natanya.

Eloise · « **Reply #55 on:** March 23, 2009, 07:48:14 AM »

Quote from: JoanK on March 22, 2009, 09:26:46 PM

JoanP, Straude: I'm amazed to hear that language usage does not bespeak social class. It certainly does in England, and less obviously in the US. I can't believe that it doesn't in France. What do you say, Eloise?

JoanK, if you don't mind I prefer not to give an opinion about this subject until we have started reading the book because you would probably find that you are both right, in a way. - language is a tool and it's not only grammar that sends a message in every class of society. This book is going to shock you as it shocked me. Not morally mind you because it is very proper but shocking on other fronts. I think that this is why it has become so popular.

I better wait. I want to start at the beginning following the schedule, it will be much nicer because we will be more able to understand what the author means to say if we don't jump ahead. I guarantee that you will all benefit from reading this book.

Those who have read it like me could pretend that they are reading it for the first time and post what they really think and pretend that the action is taking place in your city or your area.

Steph · « **Reply #56 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:19:21 AM »

We have a dear french friend who would argue that language in France is definitely indicative of socil class. He used to mutter a lot when he visited with us and listened to the french around him in Paris. He does not live there, but will come and visit when we do.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #57 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:33:00 PM »

My high school French teach, though from Belgium, proudly claimed to teach us to speak with a Parisian accent.

ALF43 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:48:16 PM »

Oh dear! Maybe that is why my copy of the Elegance of the Hedgehog has not arrived yet. I ordered it the same day that I ordered Three Cups of Tea and I am already 13 chapters into that story.
Is it because it has to come from France, Eloise???

Eloise · « **Reply #59 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:36:00 PM »

Alf, I don't think it comes from France, I got my two versions at Chapters in Montreal from the shelf. They have it at Amazon I see in Google. Perhaps it's back order, I don't know. I had to wait for my French version from the library three weeks. They can't keep up with the demand.

Judy, I believe everybody likes to listen to Parisian French. They make it a point of speaking correctly and clearly, I love to listen to it and try to detect different accents from people on the street when I go there.

Lately I saw a movie of the life of Josephine Baker, an African American who became a star in Paris in the 1950s and she sang and spoke with the most delicious French/American accent. Do you remember that song? J'ai Deux Amours Mon pays et Paris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHrOV8YorHI

Hi! Barbara, so nice that you are joining us. Do you have the book?

I talked about Elegance of the Hedgehog at my book club today and none of the women had read it yet but they said they will after I said we were going to discuss it.

I am already in the comparing mode of the two versions and I can assure you that the translator Alison Anderson went to great lengths to transate the meaning of the original Fench text, but it's a big task.

ALF43 · « **Reply #60 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:05:29 PM »

eloise, you are sweet and such a lady. I was only teasing aout the book coming from France. I still don't know why it has not arrived. Perhaps today!!

JoanK · « **Reply #61 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:25:33 PM »

ALF: I'm ahead now in both Three Cups of Tea and Hedgehog. So different, but they're both hard to put down.

ALF43 · « **Reply #62 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:06:28 PM »

Great Joan, you'll be already with questions AND answers.

fairanna · « **Reply #63 on:** March 24, 2009, 08:18:41 PM »

When the new books were proposed I chose this one and purchased a copy..I haven't started yet as I had cataract surgery Feb 10th , It was a huge success and tonight I found the book because I want to discuss it ..I had no idea what it was about but the title appealed to me..this will be the first book I have read since my vision was restored...so I know I need to return to the schedule and see what chapters or whatever are required to start...after reading everyone's opinions if I didn't have something else I must do this evening I WOULD start NOW...it will be with a peculiar kind of joy to be reading again AND discussing it .....Bon nuit did I remember that correctly ..we lived in France for two years , just 60 miles from Paris I was not a linguist ( my husband did remember his High School French though) and while we saw as much of France as we could ,. Paris was near and there was so much to see...and of course the Louvre was my fave especially when I saw Winged Vicrtory at Thamathrace Gee that looks wrong .. but they had a copy at the Art Museum and everytime I went (often ) I would stand entranced never dreaming one day I would see the real thing WOW a very special event for a small girl from the midwest ....see you later

JoanP · « **Reply #64 on:** March 24, 2009, 08:49:53 PM »

Ah, Anna, Welcome! Bienvenue! We are delighted to have you join us - your first book to read since your successful surgery. We are honored! Don't worry reading it now - we aren't beginning to discuss the book until April...

I believe our French author - and our concierge herself must have spent much time admiring the Winged Victory of Samothrace in the Louvre - she is indeed elegant!

JoanP · « **Reply #65 on:** March 24, 2009, 09:08:08 PM »

A quick question - will you try this link and tell me whether you can hear anything? Not sure how many compters can receive sound...You need to click the title in the little screen on the right - and wait a few seconds...

Gustav Mahler - Symphony #6

joangrimes · « **Reply #66 on:** March 24, 2009, 11:07:39 PM »

I can hear it JoanP.

BTW, The book has really grabbed me now... I really like it.

Joan Grimes

Laura · « **Reply #67 on:** March 25, 2009, 06:35:33 AM »

I could not hear it, but have heard many other things on my computer.

Eloise · « **Reply #68 on:** March 25, 2009, 08:08:04 AM »

Is this our Anna who will be with us to discuss The Elegance of the Hedgehog? As JoanP said this is quite an honour from a lady who dwells in poetry almost exclusively. I am very happy about that and I remember that you mentioned to me you lived in France with your husband, you and Joan G can tell us so much about France. Did you every see a concierge while you were there? Because I am sure that when you stayed in France they still had many of them around.

JoanP. I can hear Mahler’s music Joan. Thank you for the link to the The Winged Victory of Samothrace, it seems to be as famous as Michaelangelo’s David, I have often wondered what her head would have looked like. I have been to the Louvre only once and it is so big that you have to concentrate on one area at a time, but I spent more time in the Musée d’Orsey with the Impressionsts.

Joan G. I am glad that the book is starting to ‘grab’ you, when I started reading it I felt the same.

Only 5 days before we start, I can’t wait.

ALF43 · « **Reply #69 on:** March 25, 2009, 11:49:57 AM »

Yes, Joan, Gustav's "gusty" music comes forth.

JoanK · « **Reply #70 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:45:57 PM »

I can hear it. I had trouble turning it off, though.

I remember from my one trip to the Louvre stanmding and staring at the Winged Victory forever. Do you remember that old movie where Audrey Hepburn was running down the steps with the Winged Vicory behind her?

Steph · « **Reply #71 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:58:42 PM »

I remember being startled at David.He is truly an amazing statue. Inside of course, but I think that he has to be. I love the Louvre and the old post office ( impressioists??) We do a different section of the louvre each time and are slowly working our way around. Last time, we joined a docent and she talked about only French painters of a certain period.. Way too many religous art, but she was interesting.. All in English yet. I adore the old post office. The architect truly did a wonderful rendition of a museum and the animal statues outside are wonderful. I have a picture of me and the
Rhino..

joangrimes · « **Reply #72 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:54:20 AM »

I always go to the Louvre when I go to Paris...I think I have seen all of the permanent collection more than once.

However the Louvre always has some new exhibition that is there for a limited time. So there is always something that I have not seen. I have seen some really wonderful exhibitions there.

The D'Orsay is one of my favorite places in the world with so many impressionist there along with Millet's the Gleaners which I love all displayed in that wonderful old train station, a marvel of wonderful architecture. I really love that place. Oh I love Paris. Click to hear the music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_yN1R2b5M.

I also spend time in L'Orangerie where I love to spend hours in front of Monet's Water Lilies. There are so many impressionist painting there . Then there is the Musee Marmottan which is also a place to see more of Monet's Water Lilies along with other wonderful impressionist works. Of course these museums all have visiting exhibitions too that are so interesting.

If your taste is in Asian Art , The Guimet Museum is another fascinating place in Paris.
there are so many that you are never at a loss for art to look at. All of these museums have web sites also. You can look at them right here on the internet if you so desire. Of course a trip to Paris is preferable.

I have really gone on about the museums but Art is one of my obsessions.

Links to some of the mentioned museums. Just clik on each one to visit http://www.guimet.fr/-English]Musee Guimet
http://www.musee-orangerie.fr/]L'Orangerie
http://www.musee-orsay.fr/en/home.html]Musee D'Orsay
http://www.marmottan.com/uk/claude_monet/index.asp]Musee Marmottan
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/commun/home.jsp?bmLocale=en] Louvre

Joan Grimes

JoanP · « **Reply #73 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:13:54 AM »

It was good to hear that you are beginning to enjoy the book, again, JoanG. I hope the rest of you heard what Joan said earlier. There are some rough patches - in which the professor of philosophy weighs in - DON'T Be Discouraged...keep reading - it will be more than worth it - the sun will shine again!

Wonderful links, JoanG. I could spend all day getting lost in the museums - and always love Frank singing of Paris...and Chicago too...

JoanK...you couldn't turn off the Mahler link - that's funny- but not a bad thing, is it? Try this one - it plays for 10 minutes...hopefully Laura can hear it - or see it -

Strains of Gustav Mahler

joangrimes · « **Reply #74 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:24:20 AM »

Joan P, I did not mean to go off the deep end with museums but when I get started on them I have a hard time stopping. I just discovered that the Louvre site has past exhibitions. This will be a time killer for me since my favorite exhibition of all time at the Louvre was the Ingres exhibition and now I can go to the site and spend more time.

I will shut up now.

Joan Grimes

Eloise · « **Reply #75 on:** March 26, 2009, 11:07:34 AM »

Don't shut up Joan G. these are wonderful links to the famous museums. I just saw n the Orangerie museum link why they named Blue Period Picasso's paintings of that time. We can spend hours browsing through in each link. One thing I liked was the dark paint on the walls bringing out the best qualities of each painting. Our museums here all have light colored walls with sometimes inadequate sombre lighting.

It's good to listen to Mahler while we are on the computer JoanP and even only for 10 minutes.

JoanK · « **Reply #76 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:06:58 PM »

I saw the movie version of "The DeVinci Code", even though I didn't like the book, because I thought with a background of the Louvre, how bad could it be? I found out!! They filmed it in the dark, with only flshes of faces showing. Except for a 2 second shot of the DewVinci anatomy drawing, you couldn't see a thing except the floor. What a waste!

JoanK · « **Reply #77 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:10:17 PM »

Oh my goodness -- with those websites, who needs Hollywood! If you don't see me for a couple of days, you know I'm browsing through them.

Laura · « **Reply #78 on:** March 27, 2009, 10:26:14 AM »

JoanP, I could hear Strains of Gustav Mahler. Computers have too many idiosyncrasies!

straudetwo · « **Reply #79 on:** March 27, 2009, 05:56:47 PM »

May I quickly respond to JoanK's # 76 about The DaVinci Code .
I did not like the book either because it contains inaccuracies, beginning with the title.

The famous Renaissance man was born illegitimate in the small hamlet of Vinci in Tuscany
and was (until Dan Brown's book came out) known in the world as LEONARDO.

Da Vinci is NOT a last name and means, simply, from Vinci; (da) = from).

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Author Topic: Elegance of the Hedgehog ~ Muriel Barbery ~ Prediscussion (Read 32166 times)