Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 221050 times)

BooksAdmin

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Women's Issues
« on: November 16, 2012, 12:05:22 PM »
Women's Issues
If Art imitates Life, what does Literature show about the place of women in our society? From the Red Tent to the new movie Anna Karenina,  to Malala Yousafzai in the news, has the state of women changed? What IS the state of women today, in your opinion?

Let's talk about how women are portrayed in the press, and in literature, and how accurate it is.   How does advertising reflect, if it does, how women are portrayed?  (Remember heels and pearls to sell refrigerators?)

How does it seem to you that women are portrayed today?

Let's talk
!



National Women's History Project

BooksAdmin

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 12:14:16 PM »
Welcome to a new discussion area at SeniorLearn.  As stated in the header, this is the place to discuss the place of women in our society.


CallieinOK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 04:16:36 PM »
X   marking my spot. 

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 06:09:16 AM »
 Iwill be back. must run, just now.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

maeve

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 07:18:54 AM »
This sounds interesting.

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 08:36:59 AM »
Another new discussion - just things to keep our brains working!   ::)
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

dean69

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 02:44:36 PM »
Wow! Another new discussion.  Following the plight of women, it seems that throughout history women have always had to struggle to achieve rights that should be SELF-EVIDENT without having to fight for them.

jane

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 03:44:28 PM »
It does, indeed, seem to me to be that way, dean...and it raises my blood pressure to think about it.     >:(

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 04:18:30 PM »
The author of Running with Wolves has another book hitting the shelves

http://www.clarissapinkolaestes.com/

hats

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 05:14:51 PM »
Hi MaryZ and All, this is an interesting issue to discuss. Now that I'm older Women's issues are more important to me. I think in each decade and century women have made their voices louder. I don't know if our needs aren't met or whether it's because with new knowledge, new ways of running the world with technological goodies new problems are forced upon us. It seems we, as women, and men who love women can never sit down and relax. If we did, then there is the easy chance that our gains might become our losses. Women, I think, have to be risk takers.

hats

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 05:17:44 PM »
Dean69, I understand and like the way you have put your thoughts. "...had to struggle to achieve rights that should be SELF-EVIDENT..." I never thought of it all in that way. Like Jane, it does raise my blood pressure.

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 10:00:03 PM »
Hi Hats!  Nice to know you're still hanging around.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

hats

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2012, 01:52:15 AM »
Yep, I'm still here. Thanks for caring.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2012, 06:23:42 AM »
Hats, I am so glad to see you. You add to any discussion and I missed that.
I find womens issues more and more to the forefront, since muslims seem  to have a very strange idea of property, which seems to include women..and the idea that there are areas in the world ( Saudi Arabia) where they cannot legally drive or even walk without an escort. How sad and short sighted. I listened to an audio book..The Girls of Riadh, last year and it presented four Arabic young women through some years and marriage or not marriage. It was funny, but also sad. It was also banned in Saudi and some other arabic countries.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

JoanK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2012, 01:46:53 PM »
Marking.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 06:09:38 AM »
I have been thinking of how womens rights and duties have changed so drastically.When I married in the late 50's, all of the magazines and how to books talked of changing into something nice each evening before hubby returned home.. never bothering him with household items right away..went on and on.. Since we both worked, am not sure I ever did some of the things, but I do remember vividly somebody writing a book that included.. wrapping yourself in saran wrap and greeting him at the door to spice up the mariage. Not something I would  have done, but I do remember ernest discussions with friends on some such nonsense. We have changed enormously over the years.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

nlhome

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 09:33:15 PM »
This sounds like a good discussion.

My college adviser back in 1969 told me that if I wasn't going to teach (I dropped education courses and went for a straight BS) that I'd better learn to type and take shorthand, because if women weren't teachers or nurses, they were secretaries.

My first real long-term full time job ended when we moved - the personnel director had me take my money out of the retirement fund because there was no point in leaving it in since I'd just have kids and never go back to work anyway.
(after 5 years of work as a legal secretary, with a BS)

I did take 5 years off with my kids,  but other than that, I've been working.

kidsal

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 02:42:32 AM »
I was taking a geology lab course taught by a grad student in 1956.  He asked me why I bothered as I would only be a secretary for an oil company.  Hope this poor soul wound up working for one of us "girls."

salan

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 04:50:43 AM »
I graduated from high school in 1961 and promptly started college.  It seemed the only fields open to women were education, nursing or secretarial.  My sophomore year, I had a suite mate who was studying to be a lawyer.  We thought she was very daring and a little "odd".  Ah, if I only knew then what I know now......
Sally

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 09:25:39 AM »
 Iwas fortunate in college to be surrounded by friends who were mostly serious about their lives. Now one if a chemist,, another a psychiatrist, two teachers, one college professor, all mostly retired of course.. We had one red head who simply wanted a husband and he had better be rich.. She has been married three times and they were all rich.. Moo is a character.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

retired

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 04:05:34 PM »
Women were often portrayed in the past in stereotypical fashion ie; very too emotional in
behavior and decisions and dependent on a man for financial support .
How times have changed ?  But not completely.
Today women are represented in key leadership positions across the spectrum of
society .
However , they are often disrespected in consumer services by both professionals and business persons.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2012, 05:59:23 AM »
marking
Stephanie and assorted corgi

dean69

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2012, 07:18:47 PM »
A few years ago I read a biography on Belva Ann Lockwood by Jill Norgren.  Lockwood was the first woman to practice law before the U. S. Supreme Court, but the hoops she had to jump through to achieve that honor would have defeated a less determined person.  Born in 1830, she had to overcome objections at every effort to obtain an education.  When she applied for admission to law school, she was denied on the basis that she would be a distraction to the young men.  However, she was told that an exception could be made for a lady if she was on the shady side of forty, rawboned and wore spectacles.  She met none of those exceptions.  She did eventually earn a law degree, and besides becoming the first woman to practice law before the Supreme Court also ran for president twice in 1884 and 1888.

Today, there are women in all the professions formerly open only to men including the practice of law.  Three of the current Supreme Court justices are women.  I am of the opinion that there should be more.  Yes, Baby, we have come a long way, but every move forward has been met with a roadblock.  Why?

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2012, 01:29:34 PM »
It was still hard to become an attorney in the 50's.. I remember some of the roadblocks for a friend. She practices in a small family practice, so that worked, but could not even get an interview with the huge firms.. She was law review..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2012, 01:48:46 PM »
Marking.....great idea.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2012, 02:23:42 AM »
OK here we go - courageous women in history...

Louis IX. of France was captured by the Turks at the battle of Mansoora, during the Seventh Crusade, and his wife Marguerite, with a babe at the breast, was in Damietta, many miles away.  The Infidels surrounded the city, and pressed the garrison so hard that it was decided to capitulate.  The queen summoned the knights, and told them that she at least would die in armor upon the ramparts before the enemy should become masters of Damietta.

  "Before her words they thrilled like leaves
    When winds are in the wood;
  And a deepening murmur told of men
    Roused to a loftier mood."

Grasping lance and shield, they vowed to defend their queen and the cross to the last.  
Damietta was saved.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2012, 02:27:27 AM »
Charles V. of Spain passed through Thuringia in 1547, on his return to Swabia after the battle of Muehlburg.  He wrote to Catherine, Countess Dowager of Schwartzburg, promising that her subjects should not be molested in their persons or property if they would supply the Spanish soldiers with provisions at a reasonable price. 

On approaching Eudolstadt, General Alva and Prince Henry of Brunswick, with his sons, invited themselves, by a messenger sent forward, to breakfast with the Countess, who had no choice but to ratify so delicate a request from the commander of an army.  Just as the guests were seated at a generous repast, the Countess was called from the hall and told that the Spaniards were using violence and driving away the cattle of the peasants.

Quietly arming all her retinue, she bolted and barred all the gates and doors of the castle, and returned to the banquet to complain of the breach of faith.  General Alva told her that such was the custom of
war, adding that such trifling disorders were not to be heeded.  "That we shall presently see," said Catharine; "my poor subjects must have their own again, or, as God lives, prince's blood for oxen's blood!"

The doors were opened, and armed men took the places of the waiters behind the chairs of the guests.  Henry changed color; then, as the best way out of a bad scrape, laughed loudly, and ended by praising the
splendid acting of his hostess, and promising that Alva should order the cattle restored at once.  Not until a courier returned, saying that the order had been obeyed, and all damages settled satisfactorily, did the armed waiters leave. 

The Countess then thanked her guests for the honor they had done her castle, and they retired with protestations of their distinguished consideration.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2012, 02:36:41 AM »
In his book, Orison Swett Marden gives us this story:

One of the last official acts of the late President Carnot, of France, was the sending of a medal of the French Legion of Honor to a little American girl, who lives in Indiana. 

While a train on the Pan Handle Railroad, having on board several distinguished Frenchmen, was bound to
Chicago and the World's Fair, Jennie Carey, who was then ten years old, discovered that a trestle was on fire, and that if the train, which was nearly due, entered it a dreadful wreck would take place.  Thereupon
she ran out upon the track to a place where she could be seen from some little distance.  Then she took off her red flannel skirt and, when the train came in view, waved it back and forth across the track.  It was
seen, and the train stopped. 

On board of it were seven hundred people, many of whom must have suffered death but for Jennie's courage and presence of mind.  When they returned to France, the Frenchmen brought the occurrence to the notice of President Carnot, and the result was the sending of the medal of this famous French society, the purpose of which is the honoring of bravery and merit, wherever they may be found.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2012, 02:41:03 AM »
The Medal of Honor - the nation's highest award. The only female recipient.

Dr Mary Walker, a surgeon in the Civil War, was awarded the nation's highest honor by President Andrew Johnson. The citation reads, in part:

"Whereas it appears from official reports that Dr. Mary E. Walker, a graduate of medicine, has rendered valuable service to the government, and her efforts have been earnest and untiring in a variety of ways, and that she was assigned to duty and served as an assistant surgeon in charge of female prisoners at Louisville, KY., under the recommendation of Major-Generals Sherman and Thomas, and faithfully served as contract surgeon in the service of the United states, and has devoted herself with much patriotic zeal to the sick and wounded soldiers, both in the field and hospitals, to the detriment of her own health, and has endured hardships as a prisoner of war four months in a southern prison while acting as contract surgeon...."

Dr. Walker's Medal of Honor was rescinded in 1917, along with some 900 others. Some believed her medal was rescinded because of her involvement as a suffragette. Others discredit that opinion as 909 other medals rescinded were awarded to men. The stated reason was to ". . . increase the prestige of the grant."

For whatever reason, she refused to return the Medal of Honor and wore it until her death in 1919. Fifty-eight years later, the U.S. Congress posthumously reinstated her medal, and it was restored by President Carter on June 10, 1977.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2012, 02:47:56 AM »
In May 2012, Colonel Jeannie Flynn Leavitt became the first female commander of a combat fighter wing in the United States Air Force. She now commands the 4th Fighter Wing at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in Goldsboro, North Carolina. With more than 5,000 airmen and civilians, the 4th Fighter Wing is one of the Air Force’s largest fighter wing forces.

Leavitt joined the Air Force in 1992 after she earned a bachelor’s degree in aerospace engineering and a master’s degree in aeronautics and astronautics. During that time, some people in the military thought that women should not be allowed to become fighter pilots. In 1993, however, then Secretary of Defense Lee Aspin ordered that the military must allow women to fly in combat. Later that year, Leavitt became the first woman fighter pilot in the U.S. Air Force. She soon inspired other women pilots to train for combat flight. Today, the Air Force has 700 female pilots. Sixty of them fly in combat.

Before Colonel Leavitt became commander of the entire 4th Fighter Wing, she commanded the 333rd Fighter Squadron at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base. When she served in Afghanistan, she was deputy commander of the 455th Operations Group at Bagram Air Base. Throughout her career, Leavitt has logged more than 2,700 flight hours. Three hundred of those hours were in combat missions over Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now Colonel Leavitt trains others for combat flight. Flying in her F-15E Strike Eagle, she leads mock bombing raids in the sky above North Carolina. She believes that if someone wants to become a fighter pilot, his or her background does not matter. What matters is how well he or she performs.

P.S. Jeannie is my best friend's niece and Godchild - In October, Jeannie, her husband and two young boys spent time visiting Charlotte while they were here in Austin for a weekend that included watching a UT football game and driving to San Antonio so the boys could visit the Alamo.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2012, 06:05:51 AM »
Marking..Women have always been brave,, just not blustery. so men never notice.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2012, 12:24:23 PM »
Steph, that's so true. I worked for the Dept of Army for 13 yrs and the battles between the male egos were so useless, often a waste of time and dollars and unproductive. It was in the 80s and 90s and there were just beginning to be a couple of young women officers on the installation who were in "regular" military roles. They were so much better at people managing and more efficient then their male counterparts, in the main. I enjoyed working with all of them.

Some of the non-com men that i worked with mentioned that the best company officers they had had were women and one mentioned that the best helicopter training officer he had was a woman who wasn't allowed to fly in combat missions.

Of course, military and civilian women have often been in the midst of combat. There are thousands of those stories. ....... Jean

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2012, 12:30:12 PM »
Altho March is Women's History Month, December has a glorious history of women. Check out the women's history calendar from the Women's History Project.

http://www.nwhp.org/news/december.php

JoanK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2012, 03:36:52 PM »
Wow! As an  ex- mathematician, I loved seeing women mathematicians in the group. needless to say, I was the only woman in my class.

And of course, I'm named for another extraordinary woman, Joan of Arc!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2012, 04:02:22 PM »
Fabulous site Jean - thanks...! I am making a request it goes in the heading.

serenesheila

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2012, 04:17:42 PM »
Dear Jean.  Thanks much for the url to the National Women's History Project.  I just spent almost an hour reading from that site.  Very interesting!  I have added their sites to my fcavorites list. 

I

serenesheila

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2012, 04:28:13 PM »
I am appaled by the realizatio of how little women's contributions were taught during my first 12 years of education.  I am also appaled by the realiza tion of how little I was taught, and I did not realize!  The only two women's names I remember hearing, or reading about were Martha Washington and Clara Barton.  Sad!

Sheila

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2012, 06:03:39 AM »
I added the womans history project to my favorites and plan on reading it all later today.. Early morning is walk time and I have two small eager heads watching me steadily for when I rise from the machine and we all go outside..OH JOY.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2012, 10:51:38 AM »
I feel I have to take off all of my clothes, as it were, and bare my soul.

For I have suffered mightily all of my life because I was born female.  I do not mean that the soul of a man is in my head and body.  Not so.  I am WOMAN!

But my father did not want me once he heard I was a girl.  No point in burdening you with the rest of that story, but needless to say it scarred me for life and, with me now the oldest member of my entire clan, it hurts still.  He is dead, but retains the power to hurt me.

And boss after boss in my working life treated me just as Clarence Thomas treated Doctor Anita Hill.  I, too, had to refuse them and infuriate them and mortify them and try to remain friends in order to support my children.  The Men's Club of this world stand together and refuse to believe any woman, though they themselves have often copied this reprehensible behavior.

My main passion in the nearly 84 years of my life has been the discrimination against my sex.  My gender.  Only a few centuries ago we were legally the property of our fathers or husbands.  Lacking these, we could be owned by uncles or brothers.  Any property we inherited became our husband's to do with as he chose.  We could not vote in this country until 1920.  When we married in the Christian religion, the priest or pastor asked:  "Who giveth this woman?"  You see, legally we really were property to be passed from the one man to the other!

When we look at the Muslims, and goodness knows I deplore their treatment of women, but hey:  we have been just as guilty.  My first husband, right in my lifetime, saw no reason why we should waste money sending our girls to college!  I swear!

Yes, there is a rage in me.  A blazing hot rage.

My 5 daughters include 2 teachers, a nurse, a bookkeeper/artist, and a veterinarian.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2012, 11:41:14 AM »
I posted some of this in "fiction" but it goes here too.......


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Air

I got Sinclair Lewis' Free Air, an ebook, for free, from Amazon a week or so ago. If the whole book is as good as the first chapter, i'm in for a treat. Lewis writes great women protagonists. I was amazed when i read Main Street how he got into the head of the woman character in the 1920s. Both books have very strong and independent women.

In this book, a well-heeled, well brought up young woman is driving her father ( the book was published in 1919 so i assume it was supposed to be contemporary) on muddy, sometimes totally missing roads, from Minnesota to Seattle Washington. Getting to drive a car gave women, at the time, a sense of power and strength and it's clear that Clara is proud of herself even though she sometimes needs to be literally pulled out of the ruts.it turns out that it is supposed to be 1916. I also read somewhere recently how the bicycle gave women a sense of freedom and independence and power bcs it allowed them to go "on their own". Oh i know it was in Clara and Mr Tiffany. It is surprising in this day and age to think how important the bike and then the car could be to a woman's emotional feelings and her self confidence.

I put up the Wiki statement about the book at the beginning of the post.


Is there any benefit to Seniorlearn if we go to Amazon thru this site even for free books?

Jean

Just checked, it's now $ .99 for the ebook

MaryPage - i recently saw a list of the best and worse countries for women to live in. One of the comments about Indonesia was that 90% of women their said they had been the victim of sexual harassment! I thought"Huuuum, i'll bet if the term was explained and the question was asked correctly that 90% of women in the U.S. could say the same. Is their any of us who have not had to put up w/ negative comments about women, or had to figure out how to handle a leach in the workplace. If we told someone else the answer was generally "oh that's just Bob, ignore it," as if "men will be men and women just have to put up w/ them"

I'm so sorry that your father was so unappreciative of you, he certainly missed out on knowing an intelligent, interesting girl and woman.