Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 362920 times)

MaryPage

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PITY THE CHILDREN
« Reply #2680 on: June 22, 2016, 09:46:14 AM »


bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2682 on: June 22, 2016, 11:23:17 AM »
Jean, 
Quote
I bet if we were in a room together we could find more things that we agree on than disagree on.

I think so too.  I love that we can have different views and still respect each other.  How boring life would be if everyone had the same ideas, ideology, beliefs etc.  For me differences are like a color wheel....bursting with strong beautiful hues, and also soft pastels, all making the wheel exciting and interesting.

Quote
Much of the anti-Hillary sentiment is because she is a women, and it would be true of any strong, powerful woman who would run for president in either party.

I disagree with this and it seems to give so little faith in people to be able to see beyond gender.  I talk with so many anti Hillary people and their largest concern about her is she is not at all trustworthy, she has been caught in so many lies, she is also not likeable, unlike her husband who has a charismatic personality that draws people to him even when he has lived a life of adultery.  Hillary avoids people, media, questions and laughs a lot when she doesn't want to answer questions posed to her.  She gets angry when asked about her decisions as SOS, it's as if she feels she does not have to account to anyone, just like with her personal server.  She knows she did wrong, she knows there is classified emails on that server, she know her email to her daughter on the night of the Benghazi attacks proves she lied to the American people about the attacks and she stood in front of those four dead Americans coffins in front of their loved ones, on national television and boldly lied.  I can not get that image out of my mind.

It's got so little to do with her being a woman, even though that is the platform she herself wants to make it about.  We Americans are so much more brighter and better than that, and it is an insult for her to think we are less intelligent to not see beyond her sex gender.  As a woman who worked to help her get the Democratic nominee back in 2008, not because she is a woman, I am not supporting her today, not because she is a woman, but because as SOS she did not show me trustworthiness, or strength to be president of the United State of America.  Sadly to say for me as an Independent, I am sad to see the two candidates we have to choose from in November.

For the record Jean, I can think of a few strong, powerful, trustworthy, capable women that I would vote for. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

mogamom

  • Posts: 9719
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2683 on: June 22, 2016, 02:50:56 PM »
MaryPage, I read an article not too long ago (I wish I had kept the site) that spoke of an Islamic web site explaining the medical reasons for female circumcision.  I immediately went to the site.  It does promote the practice though I am more than a bit skeptical about the science they base it on; but then I need to explore their claims. 

mabel1015j, welcome back!  I agree.  Our experiences are different.  And we probably would find much more that we agree on if we were face-to-face; this forum has its limitations.  I do believe, though - as it has been my experience - that much of what people object to about Hillary has nothing to do about her being a woman.  Even a strong woman.  I wonder how Margaret Thatcher managed to be elected in Britain.  She surely was a strong woman.  And I have heard plenty of negative comments about her - as I'm sure I have about any and all of our current presidents.  Still, many admired her.


MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
Female Genital Mutilation
« Reply #2684 on: June 22, 2016, 03:36:39 PM »
Well, I can testify to having read whole books on the subject, and OUR scientists state unanimously that it is very BAD for women.  Some of the little girls die from it: from botched surgeries or too much bleeding or infections from unsterile knives or razor blades.  All women suffer ever afterwards from it.  The pain and discomfort never stop.  And all seem to believe that there can BE no reason for it other than the one the majority of the men will tell you: i.e. that it is to keep the women from enjoying sex and therefore making sure their wives have no inclination to cheat on them.
The really insidious thing, and the main hurdle Molly Melching had to get over in order to get town by town by town of women to stop doing it, is that a girl who has not been mutilated is considered UNMARRIAGABLE in these societies!  It has become a traditional FEMALE ceremonial procedure, insisted upon and carried out BY women.  And if the mother or grandmother or aunt or whomever is the female guardian of a girl cannot assure the female relative of the boy who is seeking a wife that their girl has had FGM, the girl will not be considered as a possible bride!  Imagine!  That is such a difficult mind set to overcome, and Molly and others have been extremely good at doing it!

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2685 on: June 22, 2016, 10:55:08 PM »
Mogamom - I had that perception of people being anti- Hillary because she is a strong woman based on what I've heard mostly men say about her. That is a narrow sample to make a decision about the situation. I haven't heard as many women saying negative things.

Jean

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2686 on: June 22, 2016, 11:59:14 PM »
I've heard many women talk about Hillary, including those interviewed at the polls in the primary.  And the article citing young feminists I posted earlier.  They all said they didn't trust her.  Some who voted for Sanders spoke specifically about her dealings with big banks (the money she was paid for speeches which she has repeatedly refused to disclose), the special interest groups and big business/big bank groups that give to her campaign, funding that has come in from other countries to the Clinton Foundation while she was secretary of state and expected to be the next president, etc.  Hillary has a long history that people can point to.  They've watched how she operates.  I really have never heard a man describe Hillary as a 'strong woman'?  Men I know don't think she's honest, that she's self-serving.  That's interesting.

For me - I have spoken before about my objections to her regarding women's issues; but also, I can't believe how easily she lies.  I cringe.  How does she ever expect to get away with it?

(I actually favored Kasich as I thought he had the best qualifications - a real breadth and depth of public service.  Oh, well.)

-----------------
The obstetrician I read on the Islamic site said that the procedure done on women was for hygiene reasons, just as circumcision is performed on men.  He said that it helps prevent multiple UTI's and prevents mouth cancer in men who engage in oral sex.  He also said that it heightens a woman's pleasure during sex.  He complained that women in the west favor male circumcision simply because that is a Jewish custom.  In other words, our objections to the procedure is simply because we are bigoted against Muslims.  Isn't it just so easy any more to simply dismiss a person's legitimate  concerns with some reference to some phobic label?  It'd be funny if it weren't so hurtful.

I have never heard of any of these explanations before.  As for hygiene, I did have an eighty year old male patient who had had a circumcision for hygienic reasons.  I've never heard the same for a woman.  I'm much more inclined to agree with your post, MaryPage.

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
WOMEN IN POLITICS
« Reply #2687 on: June 23, 2016, 09:22:46 AM »
Fascinating history in the June 27th The New Yorker titled The Woman Card.  I think I have said many times previously in posts in this forum that I was born and raised a Republican and spent many years of my life avidly working for the party.  But I am also my own person, a principle dear to the hearts of we Virginians, and when my party did a huge flip-flop, it had betrayed me and so I had to leave.  So sad, because I can remember so well listening to the Republican convention in the summer of 1940.  I was eleven years old, and chanting “We Want Wilkie!” along with the crowd.
Well, here are some facts.  Each one can be confirmed with research:
Hilary Clinton used to be a Republican.
Donald Trump used to be a Democrat!
The Women’s Rights movement was founded in 1848.  The advocates of women’s rights were closely aligned with THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!
They wanted the vote for women and Negros.  Eventually they got it for negro men, but not for women of either race.  Why?  Charles Sumter said: “We know how the Negro will vote, but are not so sure of the women.”  Yep, the guys inserted the word “male” into the 14th Amendment, and that, My Dears, made all the difference.  Women were disillusioned, dismayed, and disappointed; but as it points out in this article, their influence in matters political were felt first and longest in the Republican Party.
Teddy Roosevelt was the first candidate for President to aggressively court women.
Black women worked only for the G.O.P. in order to fight the Democrats, which had become the party of Southern Whites.
The EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT was first introduced into Congress in 1923, six years before I was born.
In 1940, the Republican National Committee endorsed this amendment formally in its platform!  Did you KNOW that!?!
By 1960, the majority of Republican Party workers were female.  I was one of them.  Avidly, I might add!
In 1968, for the first time since 1940, the Grand Old Party DROPPED its endorsement of Equal Rights from their platform!  I was beyond horrified! 
At the 1972 Republican convention, Republican feminists demanded the E.R.A. to the platform.  They won.
But in 1976, the platform committee defeated the E.R.A. by a single vote.  Just one.  That’s all it takes.
By 1980, I knew my party had done a huge flip flop on me, and I have not voted Republican since.  The whole history astonishes me.  The party of Lincoln abandoned all of his principles

Hilary Clinton is far from untrustworthy:  she is precisely the opposite of that.  When Bill Clinton was first in the public eye, Hilary was on the American Bar Association's list of the 100 outstanding lawyers in the United States!  She and Bill were married, but she had not taken his name for professional reasons.  She was Hilary Rodham.

Immediately, when she started speaking up, men cringed at her assertiveness and started with the nasty remarks.  The people of the United States have heard these for a quarter of a century now:  a whole generation, so of course they associate those traits with her.  Brainwashing, is what it is.  Blatant and anti-female propaganda.

mogamom

  • Posts: 9719
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2688 on: June 23, 2016, 10:27:55 AM »
That was a very interesting history, MaryPage!  I think it's fair to say that people in both parties feel betrayed - at least that's what I keep hearing.  The Democrats as I remember were always portrayed to me as the party for the common man and Republicans were for the wealthy and powerful.  Now I hear that no one is for the common man.  They are all in it for themselves.  They wheel and deal, court special interest groups, live high-on-the-hog.  Money gets doled out to friends and supporters.  One of the things I've heard Trump rail about is cronyism; he's seen plenty of it in NY.  And the crooked bidding system.

But Hillary I know has lied so many times.  That she was fired on in Bosnia, that she was named after a man who climbed Mt Everest.  Silly lies that just seem so demeaning while appearing to be attempts at self-promotion.  And that's not propaganda - it's what we've all heard from her own mouth. She has betrayed us, but still is happy to use us.

I've no doubt that she's a brilliant lawyer.  They both know the law.  That in itself is also problematic since they're seen as using the law to serve their own purposes and not having to face the consequences.  A woman for president?  Certainly - no reason not to have a woman as president.  But not this woman!


bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2689 on: June 23, 2016, 12:28:25 PM »
Mary Page,
Quote
Hilary Clinton is far from untrustworthy:  she is precisely the opposite of that.

Have you been seeing and listening to the voters.  Even those who are voting for Hillary will say they don't feel she is trustworthy.

https://www.americarisingpac.org/q-poll-hillary-clinton-not-trustworthy-doesnt-care-about-voters-problems/
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/287775/gallup-poll-democratic-voters-opinion-hillary-clinton-new-low/

The public’s impression of Hillary Clinton leaves much to be desired. The words that first spring to mind when the public hears Clinton’s name are “dishonest/liar/don’t trust her/poor character.” Clinton’s only saving grace is that she is seen as “capable and experienced.”

“Overall, 29 percent of Americans offer a positive observation about Clinton while 51 percent express something negative,” said Gallup.

The Gallup data appear to mirror research done by British-based pollster YouGov, which found Clinton to be the least honest and trustworthy of all Democratic and Republican candidates.




Read more: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/43445-2/#ixzz4CQ4nTIJw
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MaryPage, I just finished reading about the Grimke sisters, abolitionists in the 1800's.  I had heard of these events regarding the two parties.  I am an Independent and hear from both democrats and republicans on how their party's ideology has changed and they are disappointed and discouraged. Mogomom has posted, the primary reasons for the party's change.  They have become self serving and care very little about what Americans voice they want.  They have become indebted to lobbyists and special interest groups to the point they owe their body and soul to paying them back for their donations.  I heard yesterday Hillary has 42 million left in campaign funds and Trump has 1.3 million.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/republicans-cash-crunch-donald-trump/

Trump refused to accept major donations during the primaries so he would not be indebted to those big donors, instead he used his own money.  Imagine the favors Hillary will have to fulfill to those HUGE donors. 

I am only stating facts, not favoritism to either candidate.  Being an Independent gives me the objectiveness and capability to see both parties without being attached by a loyalty. Neither party is what it was centuries ago.....change can be good at times, and bad at times.  In politics today, I think it's a dogfight and the biggest bite will possibly win.  Sad times we are in.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
IN TODAY'S PAPER
« Reply #2690 on: June 23, 2016, 12:38:10 PM »
This is the sort of thing we are up against.  Insidious, and born in a hatred of women and a deeply innate urge to keep them "in their place," which is to say, subservient.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/23/opinion/hillary-gossip-redux.html?login=email&ref=todayspaper&_r=0

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2691 on: June 23, 2016, 01:09:06 PM »
I don't see where you conclude this book amounts to:

Quote
This is the sort of thing we are up against.  Insidious, and born in a hatred of women and a deeply innate urge to keep them "in their place," which is to say, subservient.

It's just a tell all book by someone you can either believe, or not believe, it is insignificant to what has already been exposed of her.  I don't see where it has anything to do with keeping a female in her place or subservient.  We all know she can lose her temper, she did it at the hearings when she sat and lied.  She knew it had NOTHING to do with a video, her email to her daughter Chelsea proved she knew it was a terrorist attack. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka0_nz53CcM

Hillary lies so much, she does not even realize she does it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uT68riwrFI

Why won't she release the transcripts for all her speeches to Goldman Saks?  What is she hiding?  She knew she was running for president in 2016, it was a done deal when she stepped aside for Obama to be the nominee in 2008.  Does she honestly think the American people are that ignorant? 

Geez Mickey Mouse would be better than either of these candidates. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2692 on: June 23, 2016, 01:29:22 PM »
What amazes me is how Hillary said leaving the White House they had, "two nickels to rub together." The Clintons left the White House in debt and are now,  Forbes analysis of the Clinton family's holdings suggests that their net worth is somewhere in the range of $45 million. Splitting the value of the shared assets in half suggests that Hillary Clinton has a net worth of roughly than $22.5

Famously, the Clintons left the White House in debt, owing to a range of legal expenses. Disclosures from the period suggest that the pair had as much as $1.8 million in assets and as much as $10.6 million in legal fees.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/02/27/what-is-hillary-clintons-net-worth.aspx

She and Bill became millionaires off of speeches they made in regions who abhor women.
http://gawker.com/yeah-ok-i-m-just-pointing-out-she-is-not-in-fact-wo-1757135053

I don't believe for one instance Hillary is a feminist, and has women's rights forefront, or in the back of her mind. 

http://www.mintpressnews.com/hillary-clinton-is-no-friend-to-women/206996/
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

nlhome

  • Posts: 984
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2693 on: June 24, 2016, 08:40:11 PM »
Hillary is much more a friend to women than any of the Republican candidates who had the most press in this pre-election times. I find it hard to believe that anyone would think Donald Trump would do anything for anyone unless it helped him first.

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
THE AWFUL VOTE IN GREAT BRITAIN
« Reply #2694 on: June 25, 2016, 09:11:53 AM »
Trump will once again profit from the pain of those not blessed with billions.  It was the retired folks in Great Britain who yearned to go back to "the good old days" and voted to leave the EU.  Weirdly, none of them understands economics, and now it is they who will suffer as their incomes plummet and the cost of goods soars.  The worst of it is, all yearnings are useless, and what they have done over there will affect us adversely, as well.  Had so hoped that interest rates might rise soon and boost my personal income a little, but now am doubtful there is any hope of that in the lifetime left me.  Well, I am accustomed to adapting to the whims of this world, and so will continue to pinch myself so as to know for certain THIS is what is really happening, and will punch another hole in my belt and pull that ever tighter.  Hold on there, MaryPage!  The day will come when you will no longer give a hoot!

We thought we had seen the waning days of the mighty British Empire, and certainly that is true, but what will take place now will break our hearts.

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2695 on: June 25, 2016, 06:46:49 PM »
I just don't know how Trump can profit from the UK becoming a sovereign nation.  This has to do with the UK wanting to get a handle on the immigration.  The EU is allowing anyone in, and the so called refugees are not being vetted whatsoever, they are refusing to  assimilate, and are causing horrific crimes.  The pundits didn't see this coming so of course the stock market dropped drastically, but I listened to many experts and they say it will all balance out.  Trump did see this coming, and if he benefits at all it will be in votes at the polls in November because Hillary and Obama did not see it happening.  Trump has given much to the lower income class by hiring them in all his hotels, casinos and resorts.  I'm not a huge Trump fan, but I do think it's unfair to blame Trump for what the people of the UK voted and decided they want in their nation. 

I'm not ready to take on an Eeyore attitude about this.

I'm glad the Supreme Court voted to put a halt to Obama overreaching his authority with his executive amnesty, and stopping the immigration plan he had in mind.  It is incompetent and irresponsible to continue to allow refugees from areas that hate us into our country without proper vetting.  Not to mention how it hurts the economy, they receive benefits from assistance programs, which our country can not afford.  The United States does not have jobs for who is already here, let alone try to provide jobs for the millions Hillary and Obama want to admit without vetting properly. 

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
THERE WAS NO RULING
« Reply #2696 on: June 25, 2016, 07:47:12 PM »
Let's get real here.  The Supreme Court only has EIGHT justices now, and the vote was split evenly in the matter of the President's executive order.  ANYtime the Court splits evenly, the matter automatically is thrown back upon the authority of the court that last ruled and caused the case to be sent on to the Supremes.  So the Supreme Court DID NOT rule against President Obama.  The facts on the table are that they were unable to rule either way.  There was no ruling.

Because the Republicans are refusing to follow the law of the land and vote on the President's nomination to fill the 9th and empty spot on the Court.

mogamom

  • Posts: 9719
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2697 on: June 25, 2016, 10:03:53 PM »
Do all of you want open borders?  It is not working well in Europe - or here - is it?  Our borders are not being protected because this administration refuses to enforce the immigration laws we have, even though they swore to do so.

To Clarify:

The law of the land does not require either party to vote on any president's nomination for Supreme Court:

The Washington Post explains the Constitution regarding Supreme Court nominations (see site below).  Here it also says:
 
"Both Democrats and Republicans have often blocked judicial nominations by filibustering them or otherwise preventing them from coming to a vote. In one well-known case, the Democrats held up George W. Bush’s nomination of Miguel Estrada to the DC Circuit for over two years, until he was finally forced to withdraw without ever getting a vote of any kind. They did so because they had concerns about Estrada’s judicial philosophy – exactly the same reason why Republicans might end up blocking Obama’s Supreme Court nomination today."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/02/17/the-constitution-does-not-require-the-senate-to-give-judicial-nominees-an-up-or-down-vote/

And Obama has made erroneous claims about his nominee.  There's enough blame to go around I think.

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2698 on: June 26, 2016, 12:52:02 AM »
A 4-4 vote clearly showed the Supreme Court is letting the ruling stand.  It is common practice to NOT allow a lame duck president nominate and get an approval for a new Supreme Justice.  This is crucial to this election in just 5 months, why would they vote on Obama's nominee? 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2699 on: June 26, 2016, 01:00:03 AM »
No!  I do not want open borders.  UK is taking the lead and I see other nations to follow.  Trump had the foresight, he has legitimate concerns for protecting our borders.  Democrats want to allow millions more in because our population has decreased and they know favoring refugees in, giving them state help will assure them more votes.  This is why Obama wanted to use his executive over reach on the immigration/amnesty plan.  Hillary is in favor of his plan as well. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

kidsal

  • Posts: 2620
  • Howdy from Rock Springs, WY
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2700 on: June 27, 2016, 05:09:16 AM »
I have never understood what is meant by a closed border.  At what point do we consider it closed?  Why haven't they developed a system to ensure ever one entering on a visa leaves the country when the visa expires?  More people enter that way than through the desert.  It is impossible to build a fence across the entire southern border due to terrain constraints, agreements we have with Mexico on wildlife concerns (water, migration) and ranchers who exchange grazing land and access to water with Mexican ranchers.

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2701 on: June 28, 2016, 09:17:11 AM »
I don't think any country can actually "close off" their entire borders.  The idea is to prevent anyone and everyone from crossing over into your country illegally.  Visas are great, but the problem is, the United States is no longer enforcing the laws.  I would more than welcome any and all who go through the proper legal procedures to enter our country.  They must be vetted, and the problem we are having today is that there are those from terrorist nations who have NO proof of who they really are.  Today is a different world, we must protect our borders/country from those who want to do us harm.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
MICHAEL MOORE'S LATEST
« Reply #2702 on: June 28, 2016, 01:58:17 PM »
Have just watched a DVD of Michael Moore's WHERE TO INVADE NEXT.  It has nothing to do with war or any previous wars of ours, lost or won.  Basically, it is a tale of how a variety of other nations treat their citizens.  Very elevating to the spirit, especially for women.  When he gets to Iceland, you will want to stand up and cheer.  Very enjoyable.  Full of optimism and Hope!

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4089
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2703 on: June 29, 2016, 11:03:07 AM »
One more attack by what they are attributing to ISIS.  They seem to be coming more and more closer and now they are warning airports are seeming to becoming main targets.

http://www.ibtimes.com/list-recent-isis-attacks-islamic-state-group-hits-targets-belgium-syria-2016-2388059
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Mkaren557

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2704 on: July 02, 2016, 03:46:22 PM »
I have listened to Hillary being criticized for everything from staying with her husband when he was caught cheating on her to not caring about her friend under attack in Benghazi to using  private email.  I have listened to her being called a liar, untrustworthy, a shrew, and a bitch.  I get it.  Many people do not like Hillary.  I do not have to like Hillary to believe that she is extremely well qualified with both the experience and the intelligence to be President of the United States.  I admire her for finding her way through the male-dominated world of politics to become a US Senator, Secretary of State, and the Democratic nominee for the Presidency.  I appreciated the grace she showed, as a defeated candidate in 2008, not only supporting, but campaigning for and with President Obama.  I am amazed by the courage, and patience she demonstrated as she testified before a Congressional committee that in the name of investigating Benghazi for the 9th time, was a partisan political attempt  to destroy her as a candidate.  I will vote for her in November, not as the best of two bad choices or as a vote against Trump or because she is a woman,  but because she is the best person for the job.   

kidsal

  • Posts: 2620
  • Howdy from Rock Springs, WY
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2705 on: July 03, 2016, 05:04:02 AM »
YES!

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
AMEN! AMEN!
« Reply #2706 on: July 03, 2016, 08:18:50 AM »
Oh, well said! I am just so sick of the obvious, blatant, overwhelming lies told about Hillary.  Told and told and told and told, repeated ad nauseum, with the sole propaganda ploy of making them stick; of causing people whose lives are too frantic from day to day and week in and week out to allow them the luxury of seeking the truth to doubt their instincts to trust her.

The Truth is she has been a good and faithful servant to her God, her family and her country from childhood.  She does not deserve the vile ingratitude piled on top of the realities she has had to work through. I am with her, anyway, but the truly scary thing is she is our only Sane choice!  We have just seen the craziness of bumper sticker mentality make the once great UK vote to leave the United States of Europe, their last hope.  Russia is grinning like the Cheshire Cat, and hoping voters here will fall for the same disastrous carnival act.

FlaJean

  • Posts: 849
  • FlaJean 2011
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2707 on: July 03, 2016, 01:05:25 PM »
I agree completely with Mkaren and MaryPage.  Hillery has my vote!

Judy Laird

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  • Redmond Washington
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2708 on: July 03, 2016, 08:15:34 PM »
I am so sick of people trashing Hillary. Think I will stop reading

ginny

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2709 on: July 04, 2016, 11:45:33 AM »
People trash everything and everybody. That's the reason I quit watching a lot of the news and get mine from three apps, the BBC, because they are 5 hours ahead of us and up on more of an international slant, CNN, which  has literally hundreds of stories between them, you can sift thru the bias, and blatant breathless sensationalism, and one for Spanish football, which is more interesting than either one of the others.

Today there's a film (can't remember if it's CNN or BBC) on aspirin in soluble form, not the way we get it or a pill in suspension,  actually demolishing brain tumors in a petri dish, very exciting news.

I've been reading the comments here about "feminism." I don't know what a "feminist" is. I know a lot of people claim to be one. To me, and it may be only me, I kind of tense up at that  announcement, because  they seem to harangue and rant to   the wrong audience. I guess it's hard to tell who is with you and who against, so one blast suits all? Establish your position? And then once established, what? I'm not sure what preaching to the choir accomplishes.

Yes the situation on women's rights in some foreign countries is horrendous, lots and lots of instances and links. Outrage. Truly awful and horrible. I notice when the discussion here has any desire to disagree on one point,  they come flooding out rather than discussion of the actual issue.

I haven't done any of those things to anybody. Frankly the human rights situation in the same countries is horrible and awful, too. The world is an awful place sometimes. Everybody agrees. I wonder if there is some way to put our outrage into positive steps or  organizations trying to positively  stop the atrocities, and if this could  make more of a difference.

I guess I'm saying I don't feel victimized in America as a woman, and if I've had a problem as one, I don't know it. 

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2710 on: July 04, 2016, 12:08:34 PM »
'Tis true, to my way of thinking.  There are often monologues in duet.

Mkaren557

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2711 on: July 04, 2016, 01:34:11 PM »
Ginny,
I agree with all you said.  While women were heavy into feminism in the 60's and 70's, I really didn't pay much attention.  I very self absorbed in myself, not untypical of late adolesence, I think.  Then I got married and was consumed with by life of  giving birth and caring for my husband and children.  After all, as a child of the 50s I was taught that that was my role.  To make a long story short, one day I picked up a novel at the library, The Woman's Room by Marilyn French. I could see my life in the pages of a book and that was the beginning for me. I never protested or actively campaigned because all I saw in "those women" was a constant discounting of the lives of women who were not part of the movement.  But I did keep reading and learning and as part of my career as a high school history teacher, I even taught young women about the oppression and the courage of the women who fought so hard for the choices they now have. 
     Secondly, I wonder how we became a nation ranting, raging, name-calling, and violence have become the way we communicate with each other.  When did it become ok to make accusations with no facts to back them up? When did it become ok to say whatever is on your mind no matter who you hurt?  Why do we now have to hate anyone or any group we disagree with?  We no longer discuss, seek compromise, or show respect for others who we differ with.  I too have turned the news off, cancelled the paper, and keep myself current by going to many sources on the internet.  On New Years Eve 2014 I decided that kindness was going to rule my life. Please don't think that I don't fail.  I do, but I start again.  I am trying to be "the change I want to see in the world." It's a beginning.

bellamarie

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2712 on: July 05, 2016, 08:34:27 AM »
MKaren,
Quote
I appreciated the grace she showed, as a defeated candidate in 2008, not only supporting, but campaigning for and with President Obama.

I worked on Hillary's campaign and learned of inside knowledge to that meeting that took place at Diane Feinstein's house between Hillary and Obama, and trust me, she had NO choice, and NO grace, where I and her millions of supporters were concerned, when she caved to the male democratic dominating decision for her to step aside, give her votes and support to Obama. The deal was sealed with the Democratic party backing her all the way in 2016.  She was a huge disappointment to me and millions of others who worked tirelessly to see her win the nomination, which she would have done had she not caved in.  I never was a one party loyalist.  I never vote a one party down the line ticket.  I have always been an Independent, capable of seeing the best, and worst in all the parties ideology and policies.  For me personally, Hillary has done some corrupt and criminal things that I refuse to turn a blind eye to.  Ambassador Stevens was considered her friend, yet when they called for help she did nothing to aid those four Americans who died.  Then she stood in front of their coffins, and in front of their loved ones, on national television and blatantly lied to those families and Americans, and said the attacks were due to a video, when she knew it was a lie, she had emailed her daughter Chelsea and the Libyan leader that very night and said it was a terrorist attack.

She has earned every dishonest and not trustworthy vote the polls show.  I ask myself over and over again, when did this country deduce itself down to expecting so less in a candidate?  When did we come to the point we are upholding and admiring a woman candidate because she is a woman, and yet know she is under criminal investigation by the FBI?  One more week and one more scandal, and yet her supporters turn a blind eye.  I suppose the only thing that will wake them up is if, and when the recommendation comes down for indictment, and this DOJ Loretta Lynch has the decency to do the job she is suppose to do, and prosecute her for her criminal acts if by the court of law she is found indeed to be guilty of, which in my opinion when she decided to destroy any of her emails that were on that private server, that had anything to do with her government dealings as SOS, she indeed committed a crime.

As to her capabilities she has failed in every area as SOS, from resetting the red button with Russia, to refusing help in the Benghazi attacks.  She is the last person I would find competent or capable to be the next president.   God help us because we have to choose from two candidates that should never have been nominated.

I am not a Hillary basher as some like to see those who see her for what she is, seems to be labeled.  I am not a feminist who thinks a woman MUST be president, and it's Hillary's time.  I am not a one party loyalist who will support the party's choice no matter what.  I a woman, Independent voter, independent thinker, who refuses to bury my head in the sand, and support someone who I can not trust and who does not share the same ideology as I do.  In 2008 she was a very different woman.  Today she is entitled, and has built her wealth since the white house years and during her SOS, on the backs of denigrating women, by taking millions of dollars from nations who demoralize, and abuse women.  Like any other criminal who breaks the law, the only house she needs to go to is the jailhouse.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/04/huma-abedin-admits-that-clinton-burned-daily-schedules/
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Mkaren557

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2713 on: July 05, 2016, 10:07:06 AM »
I respectfully disagree. Hillary is a politician who has a history.  I do not interpret her withdrawal from the 2008 race the same way.  I think she made a deal to work for Obama and he agreed to give her a position in his administration.  It was a good deal for both of them.  That's politics!  When she "caved in" it was June and it was clear that she could not win enough delegates to get the nomination.  Hillary asked and the President ordered troops to Benghazi, but for some reason the military never sent troops or support. The rest of the story that you seem to choose to accept is a Republican smear campaign.  They really have done a good job at that, by the way.  One is not a criminal until a court finds you guilty of committing a crime.  Hillary has made mistakes; she does not walk on water. All of those who work in defending the security of this country have not always told the whole story.  Secrecy is part of the job.  So here I stand.  As I said before, Hillary is the most qualified person to be President of the U.S.   


 

bellamarie

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2714 on: July 05, 2016, 12:05:31 PM »
MKaren, like I said I worked to help get her the nominee, she in fact had more delegates than Obama, they stripped her of delegates and gave some to Obama.  I was learning inside info the media refused to report.  She in NO way wanted to give up her position.  Think about it, why would she?  It was a deal she was forced to make.  She and Bill resent the Obamas to this very day because of how he was the favored candidate they had groomed, and very wealthy backers refused to back Hillary at the time.  I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinions or votes, just informing.  She has committed a crime by destroying government emails.  Those did not belong to her just because she decided to use her private server so she could do secret dealings for the Clinton foundation along with being SOS.  It's a fact she and Bill made their wealth after leaving the White House off Saks & Goldman speeches she refuses to release, and from nations who abuse women and deny them any rights.  The Ambassador was making deals with selling weapons to terrorist nations with the approval and knowledge of the administration when the Benghazi attack occurred.  That is what they did not want the public to know so they invented the "video lie". Her email to her daughter and Libyan leader clearly stated it was a terrorist attack. 
Like I said when did we as a nation decide to be okay with any person under FBI criminal investigation being able to run for the presidency?  No wonder we have lost respect around the world, they see we have lowered our standards. 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/real-benghazi-story.html
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2715 on: July 05, 2016, 01:52:39 PM »
Nothing to do with today but something that always stuck in my mind pictures were the various photos showing Congress at work before Obama ever announced and he was contently sitting next to the leaders of both the Senate and the House, especially next to Ted Kennedy. At the time and after his speech and the Democratic convention I had a feeling he was going to run for office.

Hillary never courted Congress - she is not today courting Congress - the idea of coming up through the ranks of first a party leader which is how the 'in' support is gathered, Hillary skipped - the old saying - it is not what you know it is who you know is kingpin in a good ol' boy system that regardless the few women in Congress it is still a good ol' boy system - from what I see, Hillary is currently and in the past has turned to others for her support and hopes to gain office by not dabbling in the in the system. 

Notice Kerry who was close to Ted Kennedy (who ran things regardless if he had the leadership officially or not) - Obama befriended Ted Kennedy who went to bat for him - and today Kerry who is close to Obama and a friend of Ted Kennedy is not saying anything for or against Hillary - neither is Harry Reid and worrying, according to your politics is that since Obama has been in office the Dems have lost 13 Senate seats and 69 House seats and 12 Governorships - his machine to win was successful however, he also had the support of high ranking Dems. - he could not successfully transfer his support to other Dems running for office.

But back to 2007 - the lack of Democratic support not courted by Hillary may have been how they could get her to step aside - she had no alliances - typically you are a leader in the party before you run for any national office - Hillary skipped that when she ran for NY State Senator - by being strongly affiliated with the party is how you make contacts and build alliances - politics is not a one man show - if you noticed the Congressional support Obama had in 2008 either died or was voted out of office soon after and he has shown us he could not get things done as a one man show.

This time Hillary is attempting to win without the traditional support of the Democratic leadership other than saying to Obama, 'You owe me' - Instead she has turned to leaders in the women's movement, wall street bankers and other corporate leadership - she and Bill have courted these folks since they left the White House and they appear to be turning to them for their political support and they appear to be ignoring Congressional leaders.

What is strange and all sorts of gossip on facebook is how she and Huma Abedin are best buddies - she is the wife of Anthony Weiner - both these women were wounded by their husband's indiscretions, both decided to stay married and the talk is, Huma will be running the White House as Hillary's Chief of Staff. I see two women sharing the same history and two women who are not the darlings of the Democratic party establishment.  Rather than courting party leadership Hillary got her pick, Debbie Wasserman Schultz as leader and she is being made the scape goat for all the ills during the primary.

So if we stop thinking one vote to a political picture, I'm thinking these notable associations may be a window to what is really going on and what happened that the Dems could set Hillary aside in 2007. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Mkaren557

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2716 on: July 05, 2016, 02:45:24 PM »
I guess, Bellamarie, we are going to see Hillary through different lenses and that is ok.  I respect your positions and opinions about her, but I will vote for her enthusiastically and that is all right too.  Thanks for a great discussion

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2717 on: July 05, 2016, 03:31:59 PM »
Ginny - I have been a feminist all my life. I saw around me women and men along a broad spectrum of feminism. Of the group I knew here in South Jersey, none of them were bashing women who "stayed at home", in fact several of them were women who were staying at home, nor were they bashing women who went to work outside the home. All were concerned that women have all the rights and opportunities that were available to men and that they had the opportunities to make those choices for themselves.

I knew a woman whose husband refused to let her have a driver's license, one of the many ways he controlled her. She had 4 children by the time she was 30 and her doctor refused her birth control pills because she didn't meet some formula of his about number of children and her age. I knew women who didn't shave their legs on the principle that women were just fine in their natural state, and I knew women who did shave and each had no problem with the other. I knew women who wore make-up and women who didn't. I knew a woman who as a student at Rutger's Law School petitioned for, and successfully challenged Rutger's to start a daycare program. This list could be a long one, but I'll stop with reiterating the point that except for extreme radical groups, generally in the large cities, most feminists are just pro-women and want to help women be all that they want to be. Unfortunately, as usual, the media wants drama, and extremists create more drama then middle of the road feminists, so they got a lot of the press. Almost everybody I know thinks women should have equal opportunity, but the Rush Limbaughs of the world have made "feminist" a radical, shrill, dirty word. I still am proud to voice my feminism, and for that matter my "liberalism", which has also been kidnapped by hatemongers

I consider NOW to be middle of the road feminists, but they also have a broad spectrum of philosophies. which I have taught in my history classes is a good thing. Extremists, altho I might not agree with their terms or tactics, push the boundaries so the moderates can move forward. Am example you might remember is that when MLK met with Pres Kennedy about having a march on Washington, the Kennedys were concerned about the development of the Black Panthers, so they agreed they should "give something" to the moderates - King, Lewis, NAACP,etc - and they agreed to allow the March and to float a Civil Rts Bill. We need extremists to push the barricades, but I will never be one.

As I have said to many classes and to many groups "I am what a feminist looks like."

Jean

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2718 on: July 05, 2016, 03:56:52 PM »
You rock, Jean!!
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #2719 on: July 05, 2016, 04:23:31 PM »
Your fortunate Jean - I have seen so much of bashing home-makers with awful grunting sounds and just plain 'we are better because...' - I have also seen a lot of bashing of men as well - when things got like that and they still are - it is difficult to respect a movement even though my life is far better because of the movement - reminds me of politics today where your viewpoint can only be shared among others who share your viewpoint - but the homemaker bashing started back in the late 70s and I have only seen it get worse including from some relatives who made it big on wall street as women. Sad. I did not like the power over control that homemakers experience but I still like much about the job and the older I get the more I find it has to be a secret because age and being a homemaker is like digging yourself an early grave.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe