Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 220434 times)

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2012, 11:51:18 AM »
Women's Issues
If Art imitates Life, what does Literature show about the place of women in our society? From the Red Tent to the new movie Anna Karenina,  to Malala Yousafzai in the news, has the state of women changed? What IS the state of women today, in your opinion?

Let's talk about how women are portrayed in the press, and in literature, and how accurate it is.   How does advertising reflect, if it does, how women are portrayed?  (Remember heels and pearls to sell refrigerators?)

How does it seem to you that women are portrayed today?

Let's talk
!



National Women's History Project
I was only 13 when my father died, but I do know about his attitudes.  My sister was 6 years older.  One of her friends in highschool and college wanted to be a doctor.  Since my father was a doctor, she asked him for advice.  He told her that she should go for it.  That she might not be big enough, or smart enough, to do something, but just because she sat down to pee shouldn't keep her from doing anything she wanted to do.  I was lucky.  And this woman went on to have a long productive life/career as an ENT doctor.

And John's the same way - and basically told our four daughters the same thing.  
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2012, 05:58:44 AM »
Yes, I was lucky with both father and husband.. Both encouraged me to be the best I could be. Do the things I considered important and look the world in the eye.. I had discrimination in the work place off and on, but not all the time. I am sorry Mary Page.. You have accomplished much. Be proud and strong.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2012, 04:54:44 PM »
Thank you, Steph.

The rage remains in every fiber of my being.  It is such a relief on the rare occasions when I see young women on TV speaking passionately about women's rights.  Of course, they are so courageous, because the loud, barking chauvinists immediately name them in huge voices and make sure their names reverberate from every mountainside and from sea to shining sea, along with such names as slut, whore, prostitute, sex-crazy female, man-hater, and so on.  It is such a sickness.

But from my perch on top of nearly 84 years, I have seen men from every ethnic, religious, racial and economic background join forces to try to stomp upon the teeniest sliver of notion that women should have equality.  And while I was one of those who worked so hard and tirelessly to get the ERA passed, it did not happen.  Why not?

I'll tell you quite simply and truthfully why not.  Because we never became united as one multitude of women with one mind set about our equal value as human beings.  Too many of our dear demented sisters listened to the words of their fathers, brothers, bosses, politicians and pastors and caved to the belief that women are not meant to aspire to the wonderful perfections of men;  we just cannot get there and we should admit this and and bow to our betters.  It is just not womanly to do otherwise!

The Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution of These United States, known as the ERA, was said to be so very dangerous for our nation.

Here it is in its entirety:

Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.

Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2012, 05:04:32 PM »
MaryPage, John always said that any woman who was opposed to the ERA was like a black who was against the Emancipation Proclamation. 
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2012, 05:17:38 PM »
Problem - The many "dear demented sisters" who "listened to the words of their fathers, brothers, bosses, politicians and pastors and caved" have to live with and are dependent upon those "fathers, brothers, bosses, politicians and pastors" - they have a family to raise and as difficult as it is now they can only see more hardship - plus let's face it most of those who were nationally championing the cause did not have an appearance many women emulated - they grew up believing it was only laziness that keeps you from looking your most attractive.

In the 1970s Marshall McLuhan wrote the classic, The Medium is the Massage saying,  "societies have always been shaped more by the nature of the media by which men communicate than by the content of the communication."  May not seem like the stuff worthy of sending down in flames a Constitutional Amendment but it is the kind of thinking that gets president's elected.

No one likes loosing especially a major bit of Justice but we could learn our lesson and adapt a more successful approach - I do think folks like Oprah are doing their best to help women look at their choices but we have lots of women in the  upper middle class that will loose with their marriage their station in society - no small matter - I made the choice and where we were not among the real wealth I lost tons including who wanted me to associate with their brokerage - so I lost my job.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2012, 09:28:04 PM »
In the ancient Greek play Lysistrata by Aristophanes, Lysistrata gets ALL of the women of Greece to agree to withhold sex from their husbands until the men come to an agreement and end the Peloponnesian War.  Even the old women take part in the action and the strike.

By holding together, the women win.

I believe if ALL the women of our nation acted as one, there would be no marriages destroyed because of the ERA passing.  I mean, the whole point is, when they have NO WHERE ELSE TO GO, the men will give up because they cannot do without the sex they so crave, and then turn around and tell us we are from Satan and have seduced them and sex is evil and we, not they, are to be punished.

But then, I dream, I dream.  Women will never stop being hypnotized by men.  Aristophanes was a dreamer, as well.  I like his style!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2012, 10:23:35 PM »
ah yes MaryPage dream because you need to take into consideration the abusive spouse and the women who believe that is all they deserve or the women who have no one to help them out or the women who cannot afford on her own to take care of the children and especially the women whose female family members blame her and take sides with the men - lots of folks who would be hurt - just go to a battered women's shelter to help out and your eyes are opened to how this is not a small or simple problem affecting only a very few nor is it a problem that just affects low income. You will find many a minsters wife among the group and many a women whose husband make six figures and even some women who make six figures themselves. As long as we think they have a choice and it could not happen to us then we are not as close as we need to be to bring around the law that will bring greater justice for all women.

salan

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2012, 04:46:25 AM »
I have never understood why women prostitutes are arrested, jailed & fined; and their male customers go free without even a slap on the wrist.  I am not condoning prostitution; but it has always seemed a "little" unequal to me!
Sally

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2012, 06:04:02 AM »
Just think of the women who fought against the ERA.. Phyllis Schafly for one. Oh me, That woman drove me nuts. The nonsense out of her mouth and the number of women who believed it. But there were some republican women in this last election who spouted some pretty awful things . Women are not good about sticking together.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2012, 08:12:27 AM »
Don't you find it interesting, though, that 2,500 years ago a famous playwright recognized that it was WOMEN who wanted a war to end and MEN who wanted to have a state of war?

Throughout History, it has often been our creative men who have lit a pathway towards our recognizing the more practical, civilized and prudent truths about our society.

I remember well a once extremely popular American writer:  Philip Wylie.  He seems forgotten now, but he wrote a novel that was actually the same exact story in two parts:  one in which all the women of the world disappear in an instant and what happens as a result and, in the other part, the story begins in the same instant of the same day only all the men disappear.

I cried at the end of the second part.  Instead of nuclear holocaust, the female heads of the two superpowers meet in battleships out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean and sign a Peace Treaty.  It just seemed too beautiful for mere words.

The name of the book was The Disappearance.  If you never read it, check out your used books stores;  you just never know.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2012, 02:21:35 PM »
The fight for an Equal Rights Amendment to the constitution is still going on. A friend of mine is being honored in March (women's history month) in Washington, for her work on it by the Women's History Project (previously mentioned). Here's the blurb about her from their newsletter......


Roberta (“Bobbie”) W. Francis, a nationally recognized leader and strategist for the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA), is a 30+ year advocate and activist for the ERA. Honored for her ERA leadership in 2004 by the Business and Professional Women/ USA and by the Alice Paul Institute in 2008, Bobbie serves as Chair of the ERA Taskforce for the National Council of Women’s Organizations.

She's the second of my friends who has been given an award by the WHP. My very good friend Barbara Irvine who was the volunteer, full-time, president of the Alice Paul Institute for 15 yrs, and organized the National Coalition for the Preservation of Women's History Sites. was honored by them several years ago. Ironically, they are both nicknamed "Bobbie". They are often in the same room and sometimes they and their husbands vacation together, it can get very confusing. :D

Here's a link to the ERA newsletter giving the latest news. As you can see it is still being introduced in Congress.......


http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/

I have been very lucky to have known several women who have been real activists for women's history and women's rights, some on the national level. I recently sat next to Eleanor Smeal for the evening when she was given the Alice Paul Award for Women's Equality. No one has worked harder for women's rights than Ellie and now she has taken up the cause of the Afghan women. It's been an interesting and fun (don't let anyone perpetuate the stereotype that feminists have no sense of humor) life.
Jean

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2012, 02:37:37 PM »
Thank you, Jean.  I have been aware that some have not given up the fight, albeit it seems quite stalled.  It is just that MY day is done, as I am now old and ill and unable to assist.  I just hate it that it has not happened in MY lifetime.  

I realize that is very selfish of me.  One day, when all of this generation of old white men are dead, it will be a different story.  Today's, my great grandchildren's, generation is much more tolerant and equality minded.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2012, 03:36:33 PM »
Write to your senators and Congressperson, MaryPage, especially if they are likely to be in opposition. We can still be a voice.

JoanK

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2012, 03:59:13 PM »
" I just hate it that it has not happened in MY lifetime."

No, but a lot has. The glass isn't half full yet, but maybe a third. As a young woman struggling in a man's profession, I know how much those who succeeded had to give up of themselves as women, proving that they could be more macho than the men. I delight in the professional women now, able to be both professional and feminine.

kidsal

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2012, 05:38:43 PM »
I found when I was working that sometimes women could be their own worst enemies.  Jealous if a woman was promoted to a job previously held by a man.  Didn't realize that this would someday be an opening for them.

salan

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2012, 04:39:05 AM »
Yes, women can sometimes be their own worst enemies.  When I was interviewing for a teaching position in Pasadena, TX in 1966; the superintendent asked me if I would mind working for a woman principal.  I couldn't imagine what the problem would be and he told me that many women would not work for a woman "boss".  In 1985 we were starting a new small business association and were told by the woman helping us organize to elect a man as president because if a woman was president, we would not be taken seriously!
Sally

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2012, 06:17:38 AM »
Oh Sally, how sad, but sometimes women are their own worst enemies.
Philip Wylie, oh wow, I have not heard his name in years. Yes, I read several things he wrote. A very very cynical man as I recall..Oh me,, I must look him up..
Life has changed so very much since I was a teen. I think that nowadays women are startled if they listen to women of our age.. I remember the abortion fights before Roe..People actually spit on me when we marched.. Almost as bad as Viet Nam, but then that was women as well as men..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2012, 07:06:43 AM »
Steph, did you ever march in D.C.?  I marched in every Pro-Choice demonstration in Washington, D.C.  I have all the buttons to prove it, too!

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2012, 01:40:46 PM »
Yes, in some businesses attitudes have changed a lot, especially as more women are in corporate decision-making positions. Out dgt is a senior v.p. at Wells Fargo. She has several married women and single women w/ children in her hierarchy. Her time is very flexible and they are all very sympathetic to the needs and time of mothers. When it was a Wachovia Bank, this was also true. I think the merger pushed Wells Fargo into Wachovia's way of thinking. The women appear to be supportive of each other, in general.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2012, 06:09:33 AM »
 MaryPage,, for abortion rights.. in Delaware... against the war.. Mostly Philadelphia, but twice at the Pentagon.. Quit when I realized that getting arrested would take me away from my sons and my husband traveled for his company, so they needed someone to count on.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2012, 06:45:27 AM »
You know, I just hate it when folk insist on concentrating on the foetus and not the life of the mother.  Then those very same folk don't give a rap once a child is born.  They vote down school meals and Head Start and help for dependent children and all the rest.

I sent an email to the Head of the Faith at the Vatican when that nun was excommunicated in Phoenix a few months ago.  Did you read about it?  A young woman was 11 weeks pregnant.  She had 4 little ones at home and a husband and the whole shebang.  She went into that, oh, Senior Moment - - - - - what is it called when your body seizes up and the foetes is quite literally killing you?  I think it begins with an E and I know a woman who had that happen years ago.  Anyway, they rushed her, dying, to hospital.  A Catholic one.  And the doctors had a conference and agreed she had to be aborted or die.  And they told the nun who headed up the hospital  And she agreed and it was done and the woman was sent home to the babies she has.  And the Archbishop took away the hospital's credentials as Catholic and excommunicated the nun.  The Church felt the woman should die.  Go figure.

I love the Faith, but mine has compassion and common sense.

And then there is that young woman in Ireland who just died.  Thank God the women in Ireland have had enough of this nonsense that says we women are just vessels to carry the seed of the men!  They will, I think, now fight to get things changed.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2012, 06:14:49 AM »
I saw on my IPAD that they have killed another woman who is in politics in one of the arab countries.. Pakistan or Afghanistant.. It seems the Taliban is now into being so brave that they send multiple assassins after women.. Amazing.. their own Allah should have a lot of words for them when they die.. I am sure the man did not imagine that his religion would cause this much pain. I read somewhere that he revered women.. These men are simply afraid someone else is better than they are. So sad and horrible for the women.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2012, 08:29:59 AM »
I tell you, the instinct in men is that women have no voice.  MEN RULE!

The shooting of that little 14 year old proves the whole thing.

All she wanted was that girls could learn to read and write.

So KILL HER!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2012, 06:16:20 AM »
Half of the world is women,, I find muslims who are conservative and consider women as second class at most to be extremely unpleasant.. I was reading the other day that China has a real problem in that so many peasants still will get rid of girl babies for the treasured boys and now there are not enough girls to go around. Sigh.. Can you imagine what sort of slant there is to do this??
Stephanie and assorted corgi

jane

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2012, 07:05:53 AM »
All I can think of...and also in India..is DUH!  Didn't that enter anybody's head?

Jane

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2012, 11:28:04 AM »
The irony for me, is that some of those countries have had women leaders for many years, or years ago and the "most progressive country" - US or U.S. - hasn't. Who can explain that?

Jean

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2012, 06:16:37 PM »
In both India and Pakistan, with Indira Gandhi and Benizir Bhutto, each inherited her father's political position and each was brutally assassinated.  A wave of grief and sentiment put each in office (though in each case they were totally competent to hold that office) and the usual hatred of women and refusal to be led by women led to their deaths.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2012, 06:06:29 AM »
Bhutto also had husband problems. He was believed to be corrupt and a lot of even her own party did not like him, although I think he is now a prominent politician.
We hang back on the Presidents, but Secretary of State seems to be a lock for women..Odd.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2012, 10:13:29 PM »
Have been watching the news all day and feeling sick to death.  I can honestly say I have been fighting to help prevent this for years, to no avail.  I am all for hunting and we always had shotguns and rifles in our home when I was young (I have given away the ones I inherited and have none at this writing), but I see no use in anyone not in the police or the military having assault rifles.  These are only for killing a lot of people AT ONE TIME;  they are not for hunting.  And I am opposed to gun shows not being required to run background checks.  Debi and I went to Washington, D.C. and demonstrated in the huge Million Mom March back in, oh, was it 2004?  I remember My Darling Bob was still alive.  I've given to the Brady Gun Control outfit and written my congressmen and voted accordingly and the whole nine yards.  All to no avail.  Sad that our nation has more guns than people.  Sad that money rules and innocent little children are shot in their classrooms.  I can't think what else I can DO!!!!!!!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2012, 06:11:34 AM »
Americans are the only country with these archaic laws that permit all sorts of gun.. I agree that some guns should be permitted, but not these guns made only to kill people..I am sick of the thought of those innocent little ones. I cannot imagine the illness and hate that started this.. Kill yourself, not the innocent ones. We must do a better job diagnosing the dangerous..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2012, 12:04:04 AM »
He had 2 hand guns and an automatic rifle that they said on the news tonight was capable of shooting off somewhere between 30 and 100 rounds.
When the Supreme Court came down with their decision on the Heller case in June 2008, it sounded to me from the wording that they were saying it is against the Constitution to enact any laws regulating the use of fire arms in these United States.  Ergo, we now have the right to carry concealed weapons into our churches, our hospitals, our schools.  We have the right to purchase any type of weapon for sale.  Manufacturers may make and put out there guns designed to kill as many people as possible in the shortest time.  For some reason, the matter of Homeland Security trumps that, and we cannot carry weapons on airplanes.  Me, I think the lives of six year olds should be secure, as well.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2012, 10:02:31 AM »
His Mother supplied the guns.. and then he shot her..
I think a disfunctional family indeed.
Six very brave women lost their lives defending the children that they taught.. I am so very proud of them.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2012, 12:45:33 PM »
South Korea elects woman president.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2012, 06:21:17 AM »
The South Korean woman is the daughter of the long term dictator. Why do most of the Asian countries prefer to elect members of long term political families..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2012, 08:31:35 AM »
It has seemed to me for ages now that this is the only way a woman gets her toe in the door in most societies.  In Great Britain they have gone out of their way, indeed bent over backwards, to make sure there is a legitimate male to claim the throne before taking a queen.  Yet History has shown their Queens to be among their greatest monarchs!  Well, they have finally publically admitted to this and passed a law allowing the first born, male OR female, to be the heir apparent.  'Bout time!

JoanP

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2012, 09:03:58 AM »
MaryPage...we had a funny discussion just yesterday - speculating on the possibility that Kate and Wills have twins.  The heir to the throne would be the first-born, even by a few minutes, right?  Think about it - if the first-born is a daughter, followed by the heir spare - a male! :D

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2012, 06:11:47 AM »
Why are they speculating on twins?? They do not run in the royal family at all.. and yes the first born is the new heir..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2012, 12:07:09 PM »
Right after the Duchess went into hospital with dehydration due to all day morning sickness, the tabloids, blogs, and all that public stuff burst forth with speculation that perhaps she is pregnant with twins because, the story went (and I am not an expert on at all), morning sickness is worse when you are having twins.
My doubt is based on a close family member who had twins and almost no nausea whatsoever, but she had a obvious pouch at only 2 months.  Kate shows no physical sign of pregnancy;  or at least, did not as of the day prior to her going to hospital.
Catch Doonesbury in the Sunday comics if you can.  It is just too, too delicious this week.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2012, 06:47:04 AM »
I love Doonesbury and love this particular week..What fun he has sometimes. Now I see why the twin stuff. I have a friend who had triplets and still did not have morning sickness, but oh me, she did show early.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2012, 08:44:01 AM »
Well, Steph, exactly!

Christmas Eve Gift!