Political Processes - Can we talk?

[marjifay]

Someone here, I believe, mentioned they wanted to read Trump's book.  Re Trumps book, Art of the Deal, I listened recently to an interview with the co-author of that book who said Trump did not write it and he doubted very much if Trump had even read it.  He also said that as he got to know Trump, he believed the man is a psycopath and that his only concern is for himself.

Marj

[Frybabe]

Psychopath (or sociopath) is the wrong term. He may be a narcissist though. Do a search and you will find plenty of websites that explain both.

[marjifay]

Paychopath, sociopath, or whatever, I was just repeating what the co-author of the book said                                         about Trump during the interview. I have no knowlege of the accuracy of his opinion.

Marj.

[Frybabe]

I know, Marj, I was just pointing out that he may have used the wrong term. My limited education in Psychology doesn't give me the best knowledge background, and I certainly never met Trump, but from all the descriptions I've seen in the media, I'd say he exhibits some narcissistic traits. I can see, however, where the author might consider his behavior as psychopathic. I think there is some overlap in behaviors associated with both, like being egotistical and maybe a lack of empathy. It depends on degree and what other traits the person exhibits. You're going to make me drag out my old Psychology books (what is left of them), aren't you.

I see that the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual is up to version V. now, so some of the criteria have changed, possibly a lot, since I had my hands on a DSM-III.

[BarbStAubrey]

Regardless if he personally wrote the book he has a string of books - they may all be shadow written - but I want to find the essence of the man - all we have is what the campaign machine to make him appear unworthy has said about him. Sure he has flaws but then I look at his family and obviously he did something right - if in these books his tactics to get things done is explained than we have a better understanding of how he solves problems.

So I found used copies of - The Art of the Deal - Think Like a Champion: An Informal Education in Business and Life - Crippled America: How to Make America Great Again.

I did notice the 10 initiatives listed in the news yesterday to help Black Communities were the chapter titles for his book How to Make America Great Again. Had any of us read his books we would have picked up on it and picked up on lots of things he was saying at his various conventions instead of just all the ways he was not fit that the media cooperated with the Clinton decision; that was announced if you remember at the Dem Convention when they said everytime Hillary mention Trump was when she received the loudest and longest reaction and so, that was what they decided would be the focus of her campaign speeches - the result, none of us picked up on what Trump said other than his Paris Hilton approach for attention or how he was proving the focus for Hillary of his not being worthy that was supposed to highlight her worth. 

I am not trying to review who started what - only that this man is going to be the president - I do want to learn something about him - so far I see he has disdain for those in the GOP who did not support him and has disseminated the GOP - I also read that he was a Dem until about 5 years before he ran for office - so what does that mean - I may not be able to deduce what we can expect but at least I can learn how he goes about his decision making.

I am not willing to take sides and keep going with the vitriol of the campaign - its over - how I feel about this president elect is not helping me if I only evaluate him based on what was said by him to gain free attention and by his opponent to elevate her own voteability - I'm thinking it is time to go beyond emotion and start learning more about the man.

I am aware as the vote was split as the nation is split but I choose to learn rather than stay with my media affected preconceived opinions. 

[mogamom]

Trump talked about keeping those two provisions of Obamacare, if he can work it out, in his campaign speeches.  So, I wasn't surprised to hear it.

There were things he said that caught my attention:
           At his convention speech he said: "I understand the dignity of work."  Wow!  That was big!
          When someone accused him of not understanding the ave. American because he was a billionaire, he agreed that he was wealthy and stated that he wanted to help everyone do well.
          To the W. Virginia coal miners he said that renewables are not practical yet and that miners could be re-trained in renewables as they grew and be offered first dibs on those jobs (Clinton offered federal subsidies to families instead)

A black woman did a personal video from her car with her two boys in the back seat.  She was excited and said she was on her way to vote.  She said that because she was a woman and African American she was supposed to vote Democrat, but she was voting for Trump; she was not a slave and did not live on the Democrat Plantation; she cited a speech Micelle Obama gave on TV1? (a predominately black channel?) where viewers were told:  It doesn't matter what they said, it doesn't matter what they've done, you need to get to the polls and vote straight Democrat."  This woman said no one was going to tell her how to vote - that she was voting for jobs instead of the old rhetoric that has kept blacks down.  She even said that white people were not the only ones who had slaves - that blacks were often given authority over slaves and helped keep them in line, suggesting that that was what the Obamas were trying to do.

Whatever else this election has done, it is finally at least different in terms of the power grid in Washington, I think.  I wish Soros (MoveOn.org) would give up the rioting - but I suppose making 24 billion dollars as a  Hedge Fund Manager (weren't they responsible for the '08 recession?) isn't enough for him.  And I see that the NYT is vowing "to rededicate themselves to reporting honestly"!

I've known about Donald Trump my whole adult life (since I live in NY); he's often been in the tabloids, as you can imagine.  I never heard of any rapes or unsolicited attention to women; offensive talk was plentiful and was always meted out fairly among all - an equal opportunity offender, you might say.  But there are more stories than you can shake a stick at of his abundant generosity, willingness (eagerness) to learn and get feedback from his workers (and to use that information to improve the project), and generally to encourage everyone to do better.  I don't think his idea is to do things for people, but to 'unleash their potential' - that is, to help them to do for themselves and to experience the pride and dignity that comes from building something for yourself.

His claim to bring every job in "ahead of schedule and under budget' has pretty much rung true - even in this election.   I do think he values excellence and quality in work and in people, whoever they are.  That he sticks right now with people he trusts as he navigates largely unchartered waters is not surprising to me.   I'll wait and see in what directions he moves.  It may be that he felt that the Democratic Party had left him.   

PS  My last DSM IV would hardly show Trump as a Psychopath or Sociopath; terms loosely thrown about, I think.  If you'd ever worked with either group I don't think you'd use those terms to describe him.  And one man's narcissism is another man's pride of accomplishment?

[Frybabe]

Belatedly, I am reading a copy of Foreign Policy Magazine which had in its Feb. issue an article about insurance companies and slave insurance policies. I noted that the article says that the slave trade was banned in 1808, but I wonder if that meant bringing new slave in from overseas rather than within the country. I thought slaves were still being bought and sold within the country all the way up to the Civil War.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/16/decoder-slave-insurance-market-aetna-aig-new-york-life/

[BarbStAubrey]

The U.S. Congress passes an act to “prohibit the importation of slaves into any port or place within the jurisdiction of the United States…from any foreign kingdom, place, or country.”

The first shipload of African captives to North America arrived at Jamestown, Virginia, in August 1619, but for most of the 17th century, European indentured servants were far more numerous in the North American British colonies than were African slaves. However, after 1680, the flow of indentured servants sharply declined, leading to an explosion in the African slave trade. By the middle of the 18th century, slavery could be found in all 13 colonies and was at the core of the Southern colonies’ agricultural economy. By the time of the American Revolution, the English importers alone had brought some three million captive Africans to the Americas.

After the war, as slave labor was not a crucial element of the Northern economy, most Northern states passed legislation to abolish slavery. However, in the South, the invention of the cotton gin in 1793 made cotton a major industry and sharply increased the need for slave labor. Tension arose between the North and the South as the slave or free status of new states was debated. In January 1807, with a self-sustaining population of over four million slaves in the South, some Southern congressmen joined with the North in voting to abolish the African slave trade, an act that became effective January 1, 1808

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/congress-abolishes-the-african-slave-trade

The Slave Trade Act 1807 or the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act 1807, was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom passed on 25 March 1807, with the title of "An Act for the Abolition of the Slave Trade".

[Frybabe]

Thanks for looking that up, Barb.

[jelizondo]

I've just been looking through the SeniorLearn.org Discussions and found this website!  I'm loving it!  One thing I'd like to say is that the American People did not have much to choose from for President because so many people can only run if they can afford to run!  Way too expensive!!  To me it became the lessor of two evils.  Many stayed home and didn't care, but when it came time to complain they did.  All I know is that if we don't stand together we will surely topple!  As they used to say he may be a son of a gun, but he/she is ours.  We need to stand together as citizens and yes, he is OUR president.  Not sure Hillary would have been any better or worse.  We just all need to move on!!  It's time!!!  I enjoy all of the comments and I know there are many that are much more well educated than I am.  However, we all have an opinion and that is mine! 

[mogamom]

I'm agreeing, jelizondo!

Painful as the process is, I am grateful that we are seeing the direction the 'fundamental change in America' was headed.  I read a piece by George Soros where he states quite unabashedly that the Constitution of the United States is the biggest stumbling block to globalism - his ultimate goal - and where he prefers the changes be made.  I think citizens are quite divided on that - moving to embrace globalism and socialism.  Maybe there just isn't any place to come together?  I hope that isn't so, but that is the way it feels right now. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Agree and here I am a third generation Dem. but after reading a few books on banking and the Federal Reserve and then books explaining the impact of the IMF, World Bank etc and how they destroy and buy up the resources from nations they have financially destroyed and not only reading about Soros but the Bilderberg group - all I can say is, thank God for this administration that is using the chaos theory to plow up those who, behind the scenes within our government has been actively undermining this nation since we went bankrupt in the 30s so that we are now owned by the Federal Reserve, who calls all the shots - looks like we finally have someone, who was independently wealthy and did not need the office of presidency to do the bidding's of those who hold out wealth in exchange for tipping the US further and further away from its sovereignty and the Constitution.   

[mogamom]

When I was in my twenties, I caught a PBS special on WWII.  They were showing film of a liberated concentration camp in Germany (I believe, if memory serves) that everyone in the town was required to tour.  The line went around the block and was comprised mostly of women and men too old for military service.  A narrator explained the exercise in English -  the only voice you heard.

They stood outside the gates as a speaker explained how they were to enter and progress through the area.  I watched the three women in the front of the line.  They were jabbing each other and whispering, glancing at the soldiers waiting to escort them, gesturing, laughing - as though they were out shopping.  The narrator explained that the residents did not know what had actually been taking place behind the gates.

The gates swung open…a soldier stepped forward and led the women into the courtyard.  Long tables were set up end-to-end the full width of the area; on these were placed a variety of items carefully displayed and labeled. 

The women looked a little confused, then followed directions and began walking quickly along the tables.  They were instructed to slow down and to look and read.

They began to walk slowly along the tables.  They turned to each other in surprise….then anger….as they looked at the display and read the plain labels - rope, made from human hair…belt, made from human skin…denoting items made from teeth, fillings from teeth, bone, hair, skin, etc.

The women became agitated - yelled at the soldier escorting them.  At one point they refused to continue, but were quietly, gently but firmly, assisted along by the soldier.

Then their countenance changed to horror and shame.  They looked at the ground.  One woman appeared weak-kneed and turned to vomit.  The soldier was quickly at her side with a handkerchief and water.  Then, they sobbed.

From the tables, they toured the barracks…and the gas chambers…and the pit where German guards were now being forced to finish burying the dead, which resembled rigid skeletons.

Everything was explained…everything was seen.  I watched these three women as they were escorted back to the gate.  Much calmer…quiet…they appeared to thank the soldier, wiping tears from their eyes…and silently went out.

There are many things I would much rather not see or know about.  Yet - even though the waking up process is often so very painful - I just was determined that I did not want to be caught sleeping if and when things were being done to manipulate us here.  So, although I am seeing things that sometimes  make me shudder, make me wonder how I got caught napping, I am so very grateful to finally begin to see and, hopefully, understand where we are.  So I'm hoping they continue to bring on the light.

[BarbStAubrey]

opening a can of worms but this along with many other thoughts by professionals in medicine says so much...

Ohio Physician, Dr. Chuck Gbur. Dr. Gbur is a cardiologist and veteran and his recent post concerning Covid-19 is excellent.

“I have been dark for the most part since this pandemic thing started. I have seen enough now that I feel it is time to share my experiences and thoughts. I am not an “Expert” like you see on CNN.

However, I did earn a BS in combined sciences with an emphasis in biology and chemistry, a Doctor of Medicine degree, and completed an Internal Medicine Residency and Cardiology Fellowship.

I also did post graduate work towards a PhD in Physiology, completing essentially everything short of the final few experiments to complete my thesis. I did extensive lab work using molecular biology looking at heat shock proteins. I also spent 25 years in the military working on numerous staff’s, participating in exercises and courses covering the spectrum of CBR warfare to medical logistics, Naval War College, etc. etc. I have been a practicing Interventional Cardiologist for 25 years.

When this COVID-19 “pandemic” started, I was skeptical and felt that there were a lot of people and politicians overreacting.
By the end of March, I was asked to be part of our Hospital Incident Command System. At that time, I remained a little skeptical, but did my job to plan for the “worst case scenario”. I did this based on projections and models, realizing full well that no plan survives the first shot.

I watched the local and national news, I tracked data from numerous sources, I read peoples responses and comments on social media.

As time went on, the dots became less and less connected. Things didn’t and don’t add up. I am no longer skeptical, now I am convinced that this entire “pandemic" has been massively mismanaged and when this is looked at retrospectively in the future, nothing short of a massive Charlie Foxtrot.

Several comments/observations:

• First, I believe that this virus was not naturally occurring, but genetically manipulated. I still have not formed an opinion as to whether the release was accidental or intentional.

• I think this virus has been present at least several months prior to being recognized.

• People need to understand that the entire draconian response that we are witnessing was designed with a mission statement to “flatten the curve”. Not to save lives, reduce deaths or anything like that. Flattening the curve is like squishing a water balloon. You don’t change the volume in the end. You just spread things out over a longer period of time- thereby not overwhelming the hospitals.

• New York and Ohio are different. So is Wyoming and South Dakota and every other geographic area in the country. It made and makes no sense to develop blanket policies and apply them to a very big and diverse country. This includes nearly every policy developed by medical professional organizations, regulatory bodies, state and local health departments and the government as a whole.

• This virus is much more prevalent than reported or realized, some studies suggest that that may be 50 times or more people exposed than detected. I suspect that it is much larger than that. So, if we accept the 50 X number, for every diagnosed case, there are 50 people out there that have it. Of those diagnosed, 80-90+% have either no symptoms or minimal to moderate symptoms. A small percentage get seriously sick, and many will die. Those that die in general are old, have other medical issues and comorbidities.

 Yes, I know, there are the occasional children and young people that get sick, have other manifestations (Kawasaki like illnesses, strokes, etc., etc.), however you see that in most viral illnesses, such as the flu. It just receives absolutely no attention from the media or social media.

• This virus will run it course and we can’t stop it. We may change it’s velocity or trajectory, but in the end, the same number of people will die. Keep that in mind. The same number will die. We have destroyed the economy and in the end the only thing we will be able to show is an economy in shambles and policy changes that have far reaching and irreversible consequences.

• For those of you that argue that it is worth giving up “freedom” for “protection”- you are dead wrong. And in the end, you will have given up freedom and not be any safer.

• Again, we have done nothing to “cure” anyone. There is no FDA approved treatment. Hydroxychloroquine has been reported to be effective in numerous small trials. The drug is safe and cheap. Most of in the military have taken it at some point. The use of this drug has been affected by politics and finances.

The media and pharmaceutical companies do everything is their power to discredit a drug that cost $0.06 and is mention by Trump for another unapproved drug that cost $1,000.00 a day. Am I being cynical? Maybe. But keep following the money.

• “Herd Immunity” is the only thing that will really protect us. Either by vaccine (which doesn’t exist yet) or naturally occurring. By that people need to be exposed, infected and then develop antibodies and immunity.

• People should be allowed to social gather. We should not be under this ‘soft’ Martial Law. If consenting adults make a decision to gather, especially on their private property, they should be allowed to. In fact, they should be encouraged. If they become infected, most will not even know it. But they will be growing the herd.

• High risk people, the frail, the sick, the elderly - they should be social distancing, sheltering in place and wearing mask. Otherwise mask and gloves are stupid and largely ineffective. A huge waste of resources.

• Speaking of wasting resources - wiping down every grocery cart, limiting access to stores, and all of the other stupid things we are doing haven’t shown to really do anything. Just wash your hands.

• Closing the schools was a mistake. And all of the policies being made to reopen some time with desk 6 feet apart, not allow kids to eat in the cafeteria, etc. are not going to be effective, not protect anything, cost an immense amount of money and place a huge unnecessary burden on the school systems.

Kids for the most part do really well and account for a small fraction of the cases, despite what the media tells you. They are little vectors of disease. If they stayed in school, they would all have been exposed, immune and happy and healthy, and no longer be a risk to their grandparents and other relatives at risk.

• Life in this country will never be the same. The “new norm” isn’t normal at all. In fact it’s bullshit.

• The unintended consequences of our decisions have yet to be realized but will be far reaching. I am going to LMAO once the Sokolove Law commercial comes out looking for people exposed to hand sanitizer who have cancer. Just wait, it’s coming.

• There will be a “second wave” as we relax the martial law mandates. It’s is inevitable. Again, we didn’t do anything to stop the virus.

• If the government tries to tighten things up again, I do not think people will comply this time. Sure, the uninformed sheep will, but most people won’t.

• Yes, I know some of you have had this and were really sick, felt like hell. That’s what viruses do. That’s what the flu does too.

• Yes, I know this isn’t the flu. The major difference clinically though is that there is no immunity anywhere. So, it is much more virulent. But it also isn’t some alien virus like the Andromeda Strain.

• There is most likely going to be a major food shortage this summer and fall. Partially due to supply chain disruption, decreased production and panic buying.

• There will likely be a spike in violent crimes- hungry people do things like that. Plus, many communities are being forced to cut back on social services due to decreases in revenue. Our local community has cut 10% of the police force because of revenue shortfalls.

• If the virus gets introduced to a tight group of old and frail people with multiple medical problems and no immunity- many will get infected and many will die. That’s what happens in nursing homes. It happens with the flu too, just not as bad because some partial immunity and protection from the flu vaccine. But it still happens.

• All of the statistics are garbage. When the State comes out and instructs you to list COVID-19 as the cause of death on death certificates regardless of actual cause of death, something is wrong. The asymptomatic COVID-19 + person hit by a truck didn’t die from the virus. Then 2 weeks later you are instructed to count a suspected case as an official case- we will never be able to look at the data and draw reasonable conclusions.

• The sooner people get out and get on with their lives, the better we all will be. A flatten curved is just a long drawn out tragedy causing far more harm than good.

• There is going to be increasing polarization in society, it has already been pretty bad. But mix in an election year and throw in a pandemic, gasoline on the fire.

• Speaking of gasoline- when oil hit -$40.00/barrel (that’s negative forty dollars), think what that means. Yea, maybe lower gas prices, but it also crippled the American oil industry. The environmental extremist may be thrilled- but wait until they are hungry. The appearance of the virus during this glut is one thing that makes me wonder about an intentional release of the virus.

• The next war isn’t going to be guns and bombs- but economic warfare, cyber warfare and using viruses to wreck economies.

• The future isn’t really that bright.

[BarbStAubrey]

and this is over an hour long but an excellent explanation of viruses - life - and this virus from the doctor who actually predicted covid-19 - Dr. Zach talks about how local pollution and the way our food is grown as culprits making those who live with these twin pollutants as hosts for the virus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RAtFBvKrVw&fbclid=IwAR0oF8JAj0ULPzOWixpiEJ_oEfF_EGWbauT_QtERDS_wsZVEiUd7DjI76aw

[BarbStAubrey]

and this from Robert Kennedy Jr. a Democrat - about 10 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-5Zpmh6yPI&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2DbT9QSBkP6ZNEcaxP1818LI8SEf1zfvVUt4hLEGc927EIg1Y8j7yg0fI

[ginny]

Dr. Gbur's use of the word "sheep" and "herd" in relation to masks, etc., being "stupid" reminds me of a news clip from  two days ago,  where a woman accosted a group of people coming toward her in masks, shouting  something about "99 percent cure rate, and you are wearing masks: you are all SHEEP!"

It's amazing to me how people interpret "freedom." What business is it of hers  if people want to wear masks to help protect others?  What right has she to accost people in the street about how they dress or look?

Is it really  necessary for her or Dr. Gbur to liken people to sheep or say they are "stupid"  when they want to try to protect themselves and others? I don't see an absence of masks among those having to deal with the consequences in hospitals?

Hilary Mantel speaking at the Hay Festival in Wales, now on video,  talks about how the Tudors were  very aware of the need for distancing in the various plagues and were actually very good at it, at least the king's court was, they kept moving.

There are many people speaking out  with authority in this pandemic, not all of them constructively or nicely,   or even coherently, so what is the public worried about bringing it home supposed to do? Be insulted for following what was said by those supposedly in charge  to be effective?





                       

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, difference between what Dr. Gbur has to say compared to what Dr. Zach has to say - I'm thinking we will learn what works in two weeks after thousands in a city rioted without masks or distancing - one city in California had over 50K jammed together protesting in one spot - unfortunately all I see is everything that happens is politicized and then looses truth in order to create drama for media attention, further dividing the nation - divided we fall...

[Frybabe]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/jan/19/open-letter-calls-for-publishing-boycott-of-trump-administration-memoirs?utm_term=18728835c71552dc1c121582d672c11c&utm_campaign=Bookmarks&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bookmarks_email

Didn't want to bog down the general discussion with this, but I do think it is important. Everything, but everything seems to be getting politicized now. This kind of call for censorship from the publishing industry comes close to curtailing if not squelching or freedom of speech, a basic right guaranteed by our Constitution. Fortunately, self publishing is much easier these days what with the computer and internet. Well, almost. Posting or advertising an author's works to the internet could be cut off by those in power (whether political or in business). While I believe in the right of business leaders choose what they want to associate themselves with, I do not believe they have the right to bully others to do the same. I also think they should be taking a step back, calming down, and thinking things through before committing to what appears to be an over-board response to current rhetoric and emotions. Let the readers decide what they want to read or not, or for that matter watch. I do not have to buy or read a book or watch a show I am not interested in or agree with, but that doesn't mean I have the right to say, you can't if I don't. There are a few exceptions (ex: child porn), but this expanding censorship, and might I say hatred and vengeance, especially regarding political views is disturbing.

[BarbStAubrey]

Notice several books i had an interest in were taken down and one is now only available on the Amazon Japanese book site - it was available last week when I put it on my list but now not in the US - UK - France or Germany - All this does is make the books I'm interested in seem more important to read - if they are pulling it down it must have some merit rather than possibly a conspiracy theory - well now we know what folks in Russia and China have been living with all these years - need to read how they got around their censorship.