Author Topic: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll (Read 40918 times)

marcie · « **on:** March 25, 2014, 01:49:56 AM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

April/May Book Club Online ~ Starting April 15

Alice in Wonderland
by Lewis Carroll

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (commonly called Alice in Wonderland) was written in 1865 by English author Charles Lutwidge Dodgson under the pseudonym Lewis Carroll.

We can enjoy the novel as a fantasy as well look for the amusing examples of logic contained throughout. Whether or not you've read the story as a child or adult, we welcome you to share our adventures in wonderland.

Let us know you'll be joining the discussion when we begin on April 15.

You can read the novel online

Discussion Leaders: PatH and Marcie

marcie · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2014, 02:04:06 AM »

Welcome to our "prediscussion." We look forward to seeing who will be interested in joining the discussion in mid April. It should be lots of fun to talk about all of inhabitants of Alice's wonderland and make our own adventures unravelling some of the logic puzzles contained in the story.

PatH · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2014, 10:36:56 AM »

Welcome to all. I remember how much I liked the book years ago, and can't wait to share it with everybody, and get your ideas on it. You always have such good insights into things. This will be fun.

bellamarie · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2014, 01:48:05 PM »

I have never read the book, but seen the many adaptations of the movie. It happens to be my 18 yr old, and 9 yr old grand daughters favorite movie. I introduced it to both of them when they were just 3 yrs. old, and they still watch it when they come for visits and sleepovers. Yes, my 18 yr old still graces us with her presence even though she works two jobs, is in her freshman year of college and was accepted into the KD sorority. I played the movie for my sweet little 3 yr old Zoey, just a couple of weeks ago on a snow day, and now she can't stop talking about in her words, "The rabbit movie." My son had no idea what she was talking about when she went home and kept asking to see "the rabbit movie." He called me and asked what on earth is she asking for.

I begin my spring break April 14th - 22nd, so I will try my best to check in. I am so happy to see I can read it online!

Ciao for now~

Jonathan · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2014, 03:03:50 PM »

I'm not too strong on logic puzzles, or insights, good, bad, or indifferent, but I feel young enough and curious beyond reason to check out a rabbit hole. Never been down one. Never been there, done that.

bluebird24 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2014, 04:40:17 PM »

I will read this. See you april 15.

JoanP · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2014, 08:32:12 PM »

I intend to participate...I've always found the story somewhat confusing - felt I was missing something others found amusing. I'm interested in delving into the annotations, though I've read that Louis Carroll wasn't happy when people started delving into what was behind the tale he had spun for little Alice Liddell.

I received this annotated copy as a gift years ago...this seems to be the perfect time to dust it off and discover what Lewis Carroll based these delightful characters on...

ps Bella, your little granddaughter might love one of the wonderfully illustrated Alice in Wonderland books available.

marcie · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2014, 08:56:38 PM »

What a nice group we have already, bellamarie, Jonathan, bluebird and JoanP. We should have at least as much fun as our collective grandchildren falling down that rabbit hole together.

bellamarie · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:39:16 AM »

JoanP., What a beautiful copy of the book! This does seem like a classic, I should have on my shelves to share with my grand daughter.

I am very claustrophobic, so I hope I don't experience one of my anxiety attacks, falling into that rabbit hole with y'all.

I do look forward to it though, after all, tis the season for bunny rabbits, Peter Cottontail and all...we just spotted one in our yard the other day!

JoanP · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:47:58 AM »

Oh Bella, I wouldn't overwhelm the little one with the Annotated copy, though. TOO much "scholarship." Just a book with Lewis Carroll's charming story that appeals to her so much...with illustrations to add to the experience!

Jonathan · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2014, 05:20:32 PM »

Too much scholarship? Impossible. Alice in Wonderland is a mainstay of western civilization when you think about it.

bellamarie · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:42:03 PM »

I wasn't thinking of using the annotated copy for my grand daughter. I was commenting on how wonderful JoanP.'s copy is. Illustrations would be a must for my little 3 yr. old Zoey.

marcie · « **Reply #12 on:** March 27, 2014, 11:03:46 AM »

Jonathan, we'll have to explore that angle of "mainstay of western civilization" as we talk about the book!

The original illustrations, by John Tenniel, were in black and white but they are terrific.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/114/114-h/114-h.htm

bellamarie · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2014, 12:34:39 PM »

Oh Marcie what a wonderful link you have provided us with. I love illustrations!

bookad · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2014, 07:51:19 PM »

hi there

just dropped in to see what the next month's read was....interested to hear its 'Alice In Wonderland' ...at a garage sale got an old copy of the book...then I realized it was in Ontario......we leave next week heading north from sunny North Fort Myers, am really sad to go, but we have to be out of the country by April 15...so this will work great and meanwhile will read from the online copies of the book....great choice, have never read the book though know the story of course and have seen a movie version....will try and ask the library up north for an annotated copy of the book as it sounds like it will add a lot to the read....good to hook up with you guys again as so many perspectives and thoughts to add to the ones I have when reading and it gives so much added scope.

please count me in

all the best

Deb

PatH · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2014, 06:48:41 AM »

Deb, it's good to see you here. My library has many annotated copies--hope yours does too.

Bellamarie, it's impossible for me to think of Alice without seeing Tenniel's illustrations in my mind.

bellamarie · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2014, 10:53:23 AM »

So excited, just ordered my hard copy of Alice In Wonderland Annotated Definitive Edition. Got it used and should be here by April 4th. I hope one day one of my grand daughter's will be as excited as I am to read it! JoanP., thank you so much for sharing your copy, I would not have known the differences. I really believe some books are great for ereaders, while others are a MUST own copy.

marcie · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2014, 09:50:16 PM »

Deb, it's wonderful to know that you will be joining us in mid April. I hope you have a good end to your travels.

Bellamarie, I'm glad that you found a used version and that it will arrive soon.

bookad · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2014, 10:45:07 AM »

looking thru books to do with 'Alice in Wonderland', in the 2 libraries I use in Ontario, there doesn't seem to be an Annotated copy of the book; but came across these & will look into when I get up there

Alice In Wonderland-philosophy curioser and curioser....ed by Richard Brian Davis
The Mystery of Lewis Carrol discovering the whimsical thoughtful and sometimes lonely man who created Alice in Wonderland by Jenny Woolf
Alice in Wonderland notes by Carl Senna---------------I think this is the Norton's critical edition

if I time things right I can request an annotated copy but I'd better be there to pick up the book when it comes in

ironically am reading "An Uncommon Woman, The Empress Frederick Daughter of Queen Victoria, Wife of the Crown Prince of Prussia, Mother of Kaiser Wilhelm by Hannah Pakula
and among the pictures in the book is a cartoon picture titled "Dropping the Pilot"--the famous "Punch cartoon by Sir John Tenniel (illustrator of "Alice in Wonderland) about Wilhelm II's dismissal of Bismarck, March 1890"

interesting how when one reads quite often a coincidence like this can happen where something about the reading crops up in a 'subject unrelated ' book!!

Deb

bellamarie · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2014, 11:06:31 AM »

Deb, I think we are noticing those little coincidences popping up, more and more often as we read. Especially how certain authors knew each other, and you notice they have similar writing styles, and use characters from others stories, to base some of their characters on. It's really fun finding those little treasures along the way.

marcie · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2014, 11:35:30 AM »

Deb, those books sound good. I'll look in my library for them also.

Jonathan · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2014, 03:38:23 PM »

Deb should have a fine journey's end. Spring has returned to southern Ontario. The sun has come out. The snow is nearly gone. The robins have returned. My neighbor is busy in his garden. All's well with the world. I'm eager to follow any rabbit that comes along.

How are you enjoying the book about Vicky and Fritz? I have the book and have been meaning to read it. That is a famous cartoon of Bismarck leaving the ship of state with the Kaiser looking on, showing great dignity and determination, just as there is a hint of that on the face of the mad Hatter on page 75 of my Alice. Illustrating Alice must have made John Tenneil famous. He is Sir John with the Bismarck cartoon, twenty-five years after Alice.

The whole photo section of An Uncommon Woman does suggest anther wonderland with all that royalty.

bluebird24 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2014, 05:54:22 PM »

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/CarAlic.html

marcie · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2014, 05:13:21 PM »

Interesting note, Jonathan, that John Tenniel was knighted. I discovered he was knighted by Queen Victoria in 1893 for his artistic achievements. I'm glad you'll be joining us down the rabbit hole.

Bluebird, thanks for the link to a version of the text with the illustrations.

bookad · « **Reply #24 on:** April 02, 2014, 10:58:51 PM »

Jonathan: thanks for the info about Ontario, a friend phoned a couple of weeks ago and our garage roof caved in from accumulated snow, apparently we weren't the only one around our area, others have fallen to the snow load as well.... the tires on my car burst from the pressure on the roof on the car during the fall....will be interesting when we get home they had to plow out the driveway, put a tent up and a number of things are stored there, bit of a downer---good news is now it will be easier to put in a cement floor when we redo the garage

as to Vicki and Fritz, amazing read, learning a lot from reading this, what a person Vicki was with her move to Germany on her marriage what with the change in customs for her, so many 'rules' to follow what with her father-in-law and mom-in-law being the type of people they were, lucky for her to find a man like she married that she could love and who would listen to her and respect her for her ideas and not lord over her....unfortunately am only 200 and a bit thru the book and will probably not be able to finish...no library near me in Ontario seems to have it; maybe they can locate a copy for me though outside our county. It's woman's month here in Florida and they have copies of books about amazing women of today and yesteryear (many books out on display) and hence found this book in Fort Myers library.

it is a fascinating read....didn't know much about Bismark before...

Deb

bellamarie · « **Reply #25 on:** April 03, 2014, 09:59:54 PM »

Today I got my copy of The Annotated Alice The Definitive Edition with Alice's Adventures In Wonderland & Through the Looking Glass. When I opened it I was shocked! I bought it used "LIKE NEW," and it was a mess! There are highlights, notes, lines drawn through sentences, and just scribbled opinions all over. I called the company and they said they were sorry and would send me another one immediately. Good thing is, it only took them 3 days to get it to me, and I can keep this one until I receive my new one. No extra charges, and they pay the shipping to return it.

I started reading, Introduction To The Annotated Alice and must share this with all of you, Gardner sates, "There are two types of notes I have done my best to avoid, not because they are difficult to do or should not be done, but because they are so exceedingly easy to do that any clever reader can write them out for himself. I refer to allegorical and psychoanalytic exegesis. Like Homer, the Bible, and all other great works of fantasy, the Alice books lend themselves readily to any type of symbolic interpretation__political, metaphysical, or Freudian."

Now with a group like us, can you only imagine where we are going to be going in our discussion? I fear we will be going far more places, than down a rabbit hole, and oh how I look forward to it! Sweet dreams until then.....

Ciao for now~

kidsal · « **Reply #26 on:** April 04, 2014, 01:25:20 AM »

Annotated Alice arrived today!

Jonathan · « **Reply #27 on:** April 04, 2014, 02:57:51 PM »

Are the notes and scribbled opinions' legible, Bellamarie? Sometimes the marginalia stuff is quite interesting. And then the highlighted lines. What better proof than that, that we can and should take this book seriously. Most amazing to read thatAlice can be classed as one of the great literary fantasies, which include Homer and The Bible!

I must find an annotated copy of this wonderland book. I did pick up a beautiful, gold-embossed, gift copy for a dollar. Inscribed: 'Christmas, 1975, to Buck, love from Kim - hope you enjoy it.' Buck, according to his bookplate stamp was a registered professional engineer. Alas, he left no notes or opinions in the margin. Tunneling may not have been his thing.

I remember all the lost opportunities. The greatest place in the world in which to meet up with rabbits, is the very nice walk around the Nauset marsh on Cape Cod. At Fort Hill. The narrow path is edged by high, dense grasses. One after the other these little bunnies appear on the path, do their bows a few feet away, and then disappear into the the dense vegetation. Never did I think they might be an invitation to adventure - physical, metaphysical, psychiatrical, whatever.

Closer to reality, thanks to Deb, I've enjoyed the christening of Queen Victoria's first child, Vicky, on February 10, 1841. What a glittering ceremony and banquet. I can't resist quoting from the book: Prince Albert was exceedingly proud of his firstborn, who did not cry but remained awake during the ceremony and 'seemed to crow with immense satisfaction at the lights and brilliant uniforms.' From this behavior, the baby's father concluded that his daughter was 'very intelligent and observing.' The Prime Minister, Lord Melbourne, also venturerd to say that Vicky looked as if she was 'quite conscious that the stir was all about herself!' adding portentously, 'This is the time the character is formed!'

We get to meet the queen in our book, don't we?

bellamarie · « **Reply #28 on:** April 04, 2014, 05:19:37 PM »

Jonathon, I have to admit, once I calmed down about seeing all those markings, highlights and scribbled notes and talked to the company and they are sending a new book, I started going through and reading the notes. I'm thinking just maybe I should have allowed this person to be a part of our discussion....oh drat I have to return the book, so I won't be charged for it. You MUST get your hands on the Annotated copy, it is so insightful! I can barely wait for this discussion to begin. I never imagined there was so much in the creating of Alice's story. Some things about Lewis Carroll have me going huh???

Jonathon, what book of the Queen's family are you and Deb reading? I have read many books about them due to my love of Princess Di and her two sons.

marcie · « **Reply #29 on:** April 04, 2014, 05:53:24 PM »

kidsal, that's great that you have the annotated version too and will be joining our group. Bellamarie, I'm glad that you'll be getting a "like new" version. Maybe you'll have time to read more of the owner's notes before you have to return the copy you were sent. It will be fun to share our thoughts, whatever their origin.

Jonathan, your wit will fit right in with our adventures. I'm laughing at your picking up on the excerpt from Gardner in the Annotated Alice when you say "Most amazing to read that Alice can be classed as one of the great literary fantasies, which include Homer and The Bible!"

bookad · « **Reply #30 on:** April 05, 2014, 11:00:24 AM »

I can't believe it. Now I'm not satisfied that I have an old copy of Alice ....but have had to start looking into getting an annotated copy as it really sounds interesting and would make the story 3 dimension interesting outside the scope of the original story. Apparently the definitive edition is by gardener after 'another annotated edition published by him 1990, the origional published by someone else ....was written in 1959.....someone who wrote a review online is so keen on 'Alice' they stated they can't go more than 2 weeks without delving into the book!!!!!!!!!..............so now with my house in an uproar, and only 3 days till we leave I need to find a copy of this book as my compulsion insists I do.

oh well, hope to have it to read on the trip

Deb

marcie · « **Reply #31 on:** April 05, 2014, 09:19:31 PM »

Deb, even if you don't find the "definitive" annotated version before your trip, I'm sure that we'll all enjoy Alice together. Those with annotated versions can provide additional information to our discussion. Since several of you indicate you have Martin Gardner's annotated version, I'm thinking of reading a Norton Critical edition, just to provide another perspective.

bellamarie · « **Reply #32 on:** April 06, 2014, 08:57:20 AM »

Deb, If you can get your hands on an Annotated Definitive Edition, you won"regret it. Gardner combined the first Annotated copy and all the updated letters, pictures, etc.,into this final edition. There is so much information For every paragraph of the book, it really sheds so much light onto the story. If you can't get one no worries, we will have plenty sharing. Good luck

I just typed this on my newly purchased iPad Air! Still learning it, thank you to everyone for guiding me in my decision making.

Ciao for now

marcie · « **Reply #33 on:** April 06, 2014, 03:29:21 PM »

I'm envious, bellamarie, on your iPad Air. I hope you have lots of productivity and fun with it.

Frybabe · « **Reply #34 on:** April 08, 2014, 02:11:39 PM »

My copy is waiting to pick up at the library. The listing didn't say "the Definitive", but it did list Martin Gardner.

Jonathan · « **Reply #35 on:** April 08, 2014, 05:00:16 PM »

'someone who wrote a review online is so keen on 'Alice' they stated they can't go more than 2 weeks without delving into the book!!!!!!!!!..............' from Deb's post.

I can relate to that. The dandy little hardcover book of Lewis Carroll's imaginative writing is giving me more enjoyment than I could have imagined. It's almost shocking. Have I reached that late stage in life that is compared to an early stage? I most definitely am going out to look for an annotated copy. And I hope it isn't a spoiler to suggest that reading Sigmund Freud's Interpretation of Dreams might make Alice even more meaningful. Someone suggested Freud's book as one of the best things ever written. I'm looking at my copy right now. Can you believe it? Alice isn't even mentioned. I can only conclude that Freud missed the boat on this one.

I've also discovered that my cat is eager to converse. We've just spent a deligthful half hour in which he patiently tried to teach me to meow properly. More lessons to follow on purring and caterwauling.

bellamarie · « **Reply #36 on:** April 08, 2014, 05:31:58 PM »

Oh Jonathon, Gardner did not leave out the Freudian prose on our dear Alice. He includes a few psychiatrist's analysis on Alice. I have not gotten to reading it, but can't wait.

I have to chuckle, when you say, "someone" suggested Freud's book as one of the best things ever written." Could that "someone" have been Freud, himself?

Good luck on those meow lessons, my cat had his purr down purrrrfectly.

marcie · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2014, 01:33:57 AM »

Frybabe, even if you have the earlier "annotated version" that should be fine. LOL, bellamarie, re Freud lauding himself.

Jonathan, we'll have to consult your cat as we get to the Cheshire's appearance in the book.

Frybabe · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2014, 07:17:01 AM »

On the whole I do not care for Freud except for his categorization of defense mechanisms. However, I have not read his Interpretation of Dreams so my knowledge of Freud's work is not complete. I have read some Carl Jung, including his work on archetypes and know a little about Myers and Briggs who built upon Jung work. Perhaps it is time to read Freud on dreams.

ps: I just checked my psyh book shelf. It appears I no longer have Jung's book on archetypes. Oh, well.

bellamarie · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2014, 03:57:21 PM »

Got my other Alice book, and have returned the marked up one. The notations in the first one by the owner was not legible enough to read, so as much as I would like to have used them for our discussion, I could not make out most of them. So, now the new "used like new" copy has NO markings whatsoever, but it is not the hard copy I ordered, instead it is a heavy cardboard. But at this point I just don't care to bother calling and sending it back to get yet another one.

I have to giggle when I think about how much weight people put in what Freud had to say back years ago. Now my go to person is Dr. Phil Magraw. While he is not a psychiatrist, he does have a degree in human physiology, and sociology, and who knows what else. He sure does call it like it is and does not let people use excuses for their behavior. I love his, "Take accountability" advice, and especially his, "What's YOUR payoff?"

LOL

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Author Topic: Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll (Read 40918 times)