Author Topic: Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online  (Read 55800 times)

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2014, 08:27:39 AM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

November Book Club Online  Will you join us?

The Hot Zone: A Terrifying True Story
by Richard Preston
 
It reads like a detective thriller, but it's a true story--how the Ebola virus was discovered, and what happened when it turned up in a research lab just a few miles from Washington, DC.

"When Richard Preston's novel "The Hot Zone" was published in 1995, it was, for many, their first introduction to the deadly Ebola and Marburg viruses.
 Nearly two decades later, Ebola has infected hundreds of people in three countries across West Africa, in what is considered the worst outbreak in history. As fear over the deadly virus grows, we need a reminder of what we learned so long ago from Preston." British Broadcasting Corporation BBC
 



                              

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

PART ONE: The Shadow of Mount Elgon
Nov. 1 - 5~  First three chapters--Something in the Forest, Jumper, Diagnosis (Africa, 1980)
Nov. 6-9~  Next three chapters--A Woman and a Soldier, Project Ebola, Total Immersion (Maryland, 1983)
Nov 10-13~ Last three chapters--Ebola River(Africa, 1976), Cardinal(Africa, 1987), Going Deep

PART TWO: The Monkey House

For Your Consideration
Nov. 6-9


1. We are going to see a number of people risking their lives, either for research or patient care.  Do you understand their mindset?  Can you see yourself doing this?
2. What do you think of the Jaax family lifestyle?
3. What problems did Nancy Jaax have because she was a woman?  How did she handle them?




RELEVANT LINKS:
Prediscussion
BBC Ebola Primer
Mt. Elgon National Park

  


Discussion Leader: PatH

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2014, 11:58:29 AM »
I've been puzzled about the Ebola Zaire virus - and the cure rate.  In Preston's book, he writes the kill rate of Ebola Zaire is 9 of 10 and the Marburg virus 1of 4.

And now we are hearing of the 7 of 8 persons to survive the virus in the US as well as fewer cases in West Africa - in Liberia anyway.
How to explain this?

Those two articles you just posted are most helpful, Pat. -

Quote
"Doctors say the key to surviving Ebola, and what has saved the patients in the United States, has been a higher level of “supportive care” to treat deadly symptoms like severe fluid loss and organ failure. That means the patients received intravenous fluids and salts to replace what they lost through vomiting and diarrhea, a fluid loss that can reach five to 10 quarts a day during the worst phase
Fluid replacement is done routinely for all sorts of illnesses in the United States, he said.
"

Hysteria tells us "way before the current ebola scare, we had universal precautions in place in the hospital."   

Apparently not true in Africa...
 “It’s much more challenging in Africa.”Dr. Bruce S. Ribner, who directed the care of patients evacuated to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta, said his medical team was surprised at the amount of fluid and potassium lost, and alerted doctors at treatment centers in Africa that patients there might need more replenishment than expected.

He also mentioned that some of the sickest patients in the United States were saved by ventilators and kidney dialysis. Those treatments are not available in the field hospitals in West Africa where Ebola is being treated."

...so how to explain the declining numbers of cases now?  Does anyone know that?

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2014, 12:26:58 PM »
Quote
"Did Dr. Silverstein have Marburg?   I must go back and read a bit. Ella 


As far as I can tell, he did not, Ella.  It was the young Dr. Musoke who treated Charles Monet, who contracted it.  I was certain that Dr. Musoke was going to die after that exposure.  Dr. Musoke's doctor was Dr. Silverstein - who had never heard of Marburg.  (Most didn't.)  Dr. Silberstein did research and then brought him back - Did Preston's book say how he managed to do that?

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2014, 01:01:54 PM »
Monet and Musoke both had Marburg.  Silverstein gave Musoke the best care he could, but the book doesn't say, probably because no one knows, just how come Musoke managed to fight the disease off.  You're right, JoanP, Silverstein didn't get sick.

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8685
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2014, 02:50:23 PM »
PatH: very interesting.  trolled around in the references, and found this: If you like statistics, this is the article for you.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/31/world/africa/ebola-virus-outbreak-qa.html?action=click&contentCollection=US%20Open&region=Article&module=Promotron

Gives a lot of detailed facts about ebola, including all the cases in the US and Europe. All of the US cases have recovered except Mr. Duncan.

Of the 700 workers that Doctors without Borders has sent to the area, only three have contracted ebola.

Also shows the number of treatment centers planned by WHO. Given the problems with staffing PatH's article mentioned, I don't know if it's a reality, though.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2014, 05:32:01 PM »
Treatment centers:  a newspaper article I can't find now says that if the cases continue to decline in Liberia, they will probably set up more, smaller (but expandable) centers.  Don't know if that will mean fewer staff or not.  Staff is certainly the bottleneck.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2014, 05:38:24 PM »
According to the schedule, we start on the next section tomorrow--three chapters, as listed in the heading--and it looks like we're ready.  Of course we can continue to say things about this section, too, and talk about the current news.  It's worth thinking--what have we learned from the book so far, and what have we learned from current news and our fellow discussers.

This section is quick-moving, and four days should be enough, but we can extend it if necessary.

hysteria2

  • Posts: 592
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2014, 08:31:46 PM »
I went to the doctor today, and a sign was posted on the clinic door stating that if you have traveled to Africa to please wear a mask and tell the receptionist. (Hellooooo! Ebola is not transmitted through the air!) This hysteria has to stop!
If only I could be the person my dog thinks I am!

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2014, 08:56:51 AM »
I just read the next three chapters...and now I get why those introductory pages to the inner levels of the Lab occur at the start of the book.  Thought it was a little odd when they appeared before the Monet Chapters.  Do you think these chapters - Nancy Jaax in the lab with the Ebola virus infected monkeys - will be Preston's main theme?  They certainly were exciting!

Hysteria2 - every time I see your name and then your posts warning against hysteria, I have to smile.  I will connect you with your warning in future posts! :D


Quote
"Ebola is not transmitted through the air!" Hysteria2
 I've just finished reading the last lines of the Chapter - Total Immersion - and now have more questions about the transmission of Ebola.  Will hold the question until everyone finishes these chapters...
 




ginny

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 90391
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2014, 10:01:17 AM »
I'm getting an awful lot out of this discussion and your wonderful posts, even tho I am swamped and not able to contribute anything. That will change I hope tomorrow when I have a free day to read the next 3 chapters.

But on the previous thoughts, Pearson, that's just amazing, your son in Africa! And I did not know that Bruce had been in the Peace Corps there, too. Does Africa have the hold on Bruce it seems to have on everybody else? Has he been back?  I can see Will is very happy there. Is he there on business or a service corps, or?

When you first said would we be worried if he were our son,  my first thought was he's more likely to get it in the Newark Airport than where he is, and then I read all your posts, saw the monkeys, paid attention to hysteria's post and after reading the link put here about the replacement of fluids, I'd say I was wrong there.

The splitting of the disease from Ebola Zaire (which apparently authorities disagree on as the latest version, as  late as last month, some say it's not Zaire, this latest one, some say it's a new strain, some say it IS Zaire).  You can seemingly find experts to say both.

Do we think it's this replacement of fluids, golly moses what volumes given per patient, that makes the difference?   They would be most unlikely to have that in Africa unless helped.

When I read the Flame Trees of Thika and saw the film I understood vicariously the hold  Africa has, I'd love to see it. But MONKEYS? Everybody has something they are...afraid of? Dislike? I'm not sure what the word is. I hate monkeys, just hate them. Nasty nasty things. Can't look at them in zoos.  Wouldn't want one anywhere near me and look at them in the photos there behind Will!! I'd rather walk thru 100 caves with bats than be anywhere near a monkey.

Would I be worried if my son were over there? Are you kidding?  Heck yes. Even IF it is a gigantic country nobody has told the monkeys.  Preston says with the advent of air travel... "All of the earth's cities are connected by airline routes. The web is a network.  Once a virus hits the net, it can shoot anywhere in a day-- Paris, Tokyo, New York, Los Angeles, wherever planes fly."

   But he doesn't mean it's airborne... (My doctor has the same notice up,  hysteria)... You are not going to get it standing in line in Newark for 2 hours trying to get thru Customs, with the people around you coughing, or does he mean that? He  means these infected people can then infect others, right?  With bodily fluids. Except coughing being a bodily fluid? Coughing in your hand, putting your unprotected hand on one of those posts and leaving... and then? Right behind you comes a child. He puts his hand on the posts, it's still wet, he rubs his eyes, is he then infected? Which bodily fluids, do they know?

Entire villages wiped off the map around the shores of Lake Victoria, because this virus has moved from those disgusting monkeys to humans. The host.

Love the photos of Lake Victoria and the sunset, thank you Ella, I had no idea the thing was so huge!!!

Looks like a sea rather than a lake.

Pedln, I"m glad to see you here, I've missed talking to you in book discussions. Good point on Mr. Jones and his guilt. I think some people have an overdeveloped sense of guilt about things really beyond their control. Did anybody here think he was to blame? Or not? I may have missed that discussion. I hope not.

Anyway, this discussion, your links,  Pat H, and what you're saying, Joan K, are  very helpful and calming, to me!

Back when I've read the next three chapters, I am enjoying  the book.


Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2014, 11:11:41 AM »
The TIME magazine article about Ebola accuses WHO OF not handling this epidemic in Africa.  That's their business, it's what it was created for, among other things.  WHO says it is lacking in funds and personnel and hopes the USA and the European Union will help with financial difficulties.  No one has THE ANSWER, if there is one, for the spread of this disease, or am I missing something.  I know the media said the Africans took care of their dead, no doubt handling the bodies, cleansing, being esposed to their bodilly functions at that time.

Thirteen thousand monkeys were exported to Gernany; they were given a visual inspection by Mr. Jones, a veterinarian.  The sick monkeys were to be destroyed, but later were found to be let loose  on an island in Lake Victoria.

So it makes sense don't go near Lake Victoria, at least don't stop at any island!!!!  You must tell your son, JOANP.

Ginny, I hope you don't have a nightmare thinking of that.  I don't mind monkeys, part of the world as is birds and squirrels, etc.   I don't want any animal in my house.   For years, I had to have cats and dogs, a bird (which just would scare the bejesus out of me when my husband and the kids would let it out and it would perch on my shoulder or fly around the house.)  I hated that, it was frightening. I ran around batting my hands and the kids laughed until I got in a room and slammed the door.   I would chastise them later and they were good until the next time; the bird finally got out the window and we never saw the thing again!!!!!

We all have something that frightens us don't  you think?   Snakes?


PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2014, 01:25:57 PM »
Ginny, you're right that Preston means that air travel means the virus can be transported around the world, in carrier victims, on planes, not that the virus is airborne.

I put up some questions about this section, but the main thing is to enjoy the good story and say what we think about it.  Remember, though, that this section takes place thirty years ago, and don't draw too many conclusions about what the characters think is going on with the science.

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2014, 07:10:07 AM »
I have to admit that having my Will in Zambia has colored the way I'm reading this book. It makes a difference, really. An experience I hadn't anticipated.

This, from an email he sent last night -

Quote
"I'm in the Copperbelt (northern Zambia) doing a few work meetings with my former colleague xxx xxx. Tomorrow night we're going to a chimpanzee reserve before returning to Lusaka on Saturday. I'll send some more pictures then!"

What frightens me, Ella, is not so much the animals I can see - and run from, or avoid...but those I can't see - and wouldn't expect to do harm.  -Like the virus that lurks in the blood of dead monkies.

No, I don't understand the mother of two, putting herself in harm's way.  Do you regard her as a heroine, one who risks her life for medical research?  Or is she trying to prove something else?  Even her husband objects to her entering the Level Four Lab...with no vaccine protection...and he didn't know about the open, bleeding gash on her hand.  Wasn't she supposed to report something like that?

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2014, 09:02:31 AM »
JoanP,  it's so hard on you having a son in Africa right now.  I truly believe he is not in danger, and will come home safe and sound, but I would be just as worried if it were my son.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2014, 11:14:59 AM »
Quote
No, I don't understand the mother of two, putting herself in harm's way.
Suppose the Jaaxes hadn't had children?  Could you imagine why she might take such risks?  Or suppose she were unmarried?

ginny

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 90391
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2014, 11:19:03 AM »
:) Now I see why Ella said hope you don't have nightmares. I read the second installment and enjoyed it tremendously, it's hard to stop.  I got up thinking there are no monkeys here and then I read the three chapters, EEK EEK, he's a good writer.

It reminds me of those old Walter Winchell voice over programs on TV..."Bill did not know it, but today would be the last day of his life." I hated that omniscient voice pontificating about this poor man's life and here we have another omniscient narrator and Nancy Jaax.

I agree with Pearson, not sure why she would not report that injury or dismiss herself till it was healed. I think also she was out to prove something to others.

Lots and lots about her hands, her nervous hands, her quick hands,  and let's face it:  if she tried to open a can with a knife, and then slashed herself down the palm, perhaps that concern is justified.

At any rate, I'm not sure I agree with her that Ebola spreads thru the air, I think that may be dated but it's her own opinion and she's entitled to it. Especially since she mentions monkeys throw things and spit it would seem to me that there might have been other ways for it to have been transmitted, including human error in the care of the animals.

Just what we need!!!  Why don't we all get a monkey? hahahaa

Ella I did not know that about you and birds. It's just birds in the house, right? Or is it any bird?

I love the book. Love the way it's written and the suspense.  Is it OK to discuss this part now?





bellamarie

  • Posts: 4076
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2014, 11:45:32 AM »
I have not read the entire chapter, so I will only say I think Nancy Jaax has acted very irresponsible, going into the Level 4 zone with an open cut, with only a band aide on it.  She has children, she could not only be putting herself at risk in contracting the virus, but also risking the possibility of infecting her husband and children. 

JoanP., I can understand your concern for your son being in Africa, around monkeys.  I hope he is safe from any possible risks.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

hysteria2

  • Posts: 592
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2014, 12:04:22 PM »
Like it or not, Nancy Jaax had additional burdens going into that position because she was a woman. Unfortunate, but it's a reality which exists even now. She did not help her cause by knowingly going into Level 4 with an open wound on her right hand. The wound on a hand is much more likely to get contaminated than a wound elsewhere. The minute she cut her hand trying to open that can, the reader just knew the open wound would play a role while  she was doing the necropsy. There wasn't even any suspense there. Those who objected to her working with ebola had valid points. She didn't just have herself to think about. She had children who depended on her. Motherhood changes things. After she was possibly exposed to ebola, she reviewed everything that would change if she were to be isolated. That was not the time to analyze the consequences of contamination. She should have done that before she ever entered Level 4 with an open wound. I think she used poor judgment.
If only I could be the person my dog thinks I am!

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2014, 05:27:47 AM »
Quote
"The minute she cut her hand trying to open that can, the reader just knew the open wound would play a role while  she was doing the necropsy."

Hysteria, why do you think we knew the open wound would play a role a role, but Nancy Jaax didn't, didn't seem to realize the danger, didn't hesitate going into the lab that day?  I'm going to reread those pages again, but don't remember calling in sick that morning an option.  
Maybe she just had complete confidence in the protection of that space suit?

I'll tell you the moment I knew Nancy was taking a near-fatal risk.  When I read that she was in such a hurry to get into that lab, she did not inspect the space suit as closely as she should have..  Now we know that she's in real danger...the open wound...AND a tear in the space suit, about which she is totally unaware.

ps. Have you ever opened a can like she did?

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2014, 10:55:34 AM »
No, JOANP, i have never opened a can like Nancy Jaxx did, how dangerous.  The woman does not have common sense, is impetuous, tense, and, furthermore, somewhat hysterical when she broke into tears on learning that she was going to be working with Ebola.

"At that moment, to hold Ebola virus in her hands was what she wanted more than anything else in the world.

Is this the author getting too dramatic in the tale or does it really portray this woman's love of working with viruses?  Crazy! 

A simple bandaid!   Wonder if it, at least, was a waterproof one!  Definitely, she did not show good judgment, but she was too anxious to get in that lab.

ginny

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 90391
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2014, 11:23:42 AM »
He may have exaggerated a bit: Here's an interview with now Colonel Jaxx.  Nancy K. Jaax is chief of the pathology division at the U.S. Army Medical Research...

 https://web.stanford.edu/group/virus/filo/jaax.html

She's quite pretty:


PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2014, 11:43:45 AM »
I wonder if Nancy Jaax was violating Level 4 lab regulations of the time by entering with an open cut?  Probably not, as it was only her second time, and Lt. Colonel Johnson was watching her like a hawk to be sure there were no problems.

I can't imagine trying to open a can with a knife.  It's hard enough with those little spike things that you punch in and then lever around the rim.  And it shows a total lack of respect for your knife, which will surely be ruined.

pedln

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 6694
  • SE Missouri
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2014, 01:56:42 PM »

Quote
I think it should focus on the pathogenesis and mechanisms of infection, as well as finding the host reservoir. Until we know where this virus lives and exactly how it interacts with the human host , we will be handicapped in our search for an effective treatment.

When she talks about the "host Resevoir" does she mean its source?

This has all been fascinating reading, though for me it cannot be at bedtime.  I tried it and had to switch to something else before turning out the light.  I thought the chapter about N Jaax's "leak" with the blood was almost as horrifying as Preston's depiction of the innards of Kitsum cave.  It was a great relief to see his (RP) comments about a conversation with Jaax held several years later.

As we learn more about her we find Jaax to be very focused about the Ebola virus itself - really quite driven to be part of the explorer team.  I'm with all those of you who questioned her doing this at a time when she had young children.  She wasn't just risking her health and safety, but theirs as well.  I can't imagine her NOT having thoughts what she might be bringing home.  Especially after finding the healthy monkeys infected and thinking that the disease could be airborn.

Sorry to have been so light in participation for such a good book.  Have been spending much time researching changes in Part D and Medc. supplement insurers, and on the ASL class homework..

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2014, 04:25:04 PM »
Turns out to have been true that the Ebola virus in its present form DOES NOT carry through the air to infect others, but only through bodily fluids.  The present day thinking is that it did not do so in Reston, Virginia in 1989 between those monkey cages, but was transmitted through fluids when they cleansed the cages by hosing them down, the person with the hose spraying back and forth and forth and back between the cages and body fluids being caught up in the spray.  Makes sense to me!
A host reservoir is the place the virus began its "life," as it were, and where it can be found forevermore.  For instance, the Hanta virus, named for a river in China where it was first reported as infecting humans and causing a most awful panic in this nation when it hit New Mexico and the Navajos some years ago, has been discovered to reside in field mice and deer mice.  As of this writing, it has not yet been established what the host is for Ebola;  and yes, bats have been strongly suspected.  If you have a fascination with this book, THE HOT ZONE, do please follow it up by reading another thriller that is extremely easy to read and crammed full with information, VIRUS HUNTER, Thirty Years of Battling Hot Viruses Around The World by Dr. C.J. Peters.  Peters was, when this book was written, Chief of Special Pathogens at the Centers for Disease Control.  He is retired now, but still putting his oar in, and is mentioned by Richard Preston in his latest The New Yorker article.  When you read VIRUS HUNTER and if you can get hold of and read The New Yorker, you will weep for the lack of money and manpower to fight these terrible viruses.  And yes, we do have a cure for Ebola, but we have lacked the money to
grow it.  So far it has been 100% effective, but it takes Time and Money to get together.  We grow it in tobacco products, of all things!  So you see, there is a future for THAT industry in saving, as opposed to killing, lives.  But we lack the money, lack the money, lack the money.

hysteria2

  • Posts: 592
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2014, 07:06:35 PM »
JOANP, it's possible I knew that open wound would play a role because I have way too much time on my hands and spend a great deal of that excess time reading all kinds of mysteries (both general and medical). Now I have no idea why Nancy Jaax didn't even think about going into Level 4 with an open wound, unless she assumed that all that protective gear would work flawlessly. Anyone in the medical field should know that Murphy's Law is alive and well in any laboratory (and in many other situations)! She should have known better, and she certainly should have told her boss about the wound before going in there. 
If only I could be the person my dog thinks I am!

pedln

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 6694
  • SE Missouri
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2014, 11:59:51 PM »
Thanks Mary Page, for the info about Peters' Virus Hunters,which sounds like a good source for those of us who want to know more these dangerous diseases.  A book like The Hot Zone pushes one to learn more about the events and the characters, and it has pushed me to learn more about the Jaax', especially Nancy Jaax.

25 Years After Reston  -- another very recent (11/8/2014) interview and article about Nancy and Jerry Jaax, by Kelsey Ryan of the Wichita Eagle.  N Jaax seems to have a knack for explaining scientific and medical terms in a way that is easy for laypersons to understand.  Such terms as "resevoir" and "droplets."  They too bemoan the lack of funding, MaryPage -- if we don't maintain these research facilities now we will lose our talent base.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2014, 07:54:59 AM »
SPOILER ALERT!
Pedln, that's a great article, and explains a lot of things very clearly, and I'm glad to find out where the Jaax' ended up--I figured they would have retired from USAMRIID by now.

It does, however, give a brief synopsis of the main story of the book, which is the battle against the Reston outbreak, so if anyone wants the most suspense, they should wait to read it.  Of course we know already that Nancy doesn't come to grief, since Preston has interviewed her--the suspense is mostly in the details and how they handle the situation.  So it's a toss-up; read now or later.  It's a really good article.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2014, 08:13:02 AM »
Welcome, MaryPage, it's good to see you here.  Thanks for the Virus Hunters book.  I have several others ahead of it in line, but would like to read it.  And thanks for the very clear explanation of host reservoir.

JoanP put a link to Preston's New Yorker article in the prediscussion.  Here it is again.  There's a link to the prediscussion in the heading for anyone who wants to look back at it, but I'll try to find time later today to repeat the links people found over here.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/27/ebola-wars

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2014, 12:29:01 PM »
"What problems did Nancy Jaax have because she was a woman?  How did she handle them?"

For one thing...Nancy's own husband spoke against her suitability for  the dangerous lab work - not just because she was the mother of his children, but because he was concerned about her temperament.  I tended to agree with him.  But the powers that be decided to take her on anyway, despite her  husband's  observation.  It seems that her supervisor did not give her bad marks for going into the lab with that gash in her hand.  Did he know about it?  Did he know that was her own blood in the glove?  How closely was she examined after that incident?  He did note in his report that she was NOT exposed to EBOLA!

Did Nancy continue on in the Level4 Lab after that?  Or was she replaced?  From what Ginny and Pedln posted of her advancement, she continued as if nothing had happened.  I guess her determination to conquer the virus - and willingness to risk her life were enough to impress her supervisor and allow her to continue on...

Do you think we just don't understand a scientist's determination to stop the virus, even when her own life is at stake?  Such determination was rewarded here.   I was heartened to read of the experiments going on back then, to come up with a vaccine stronger than the virus.  Not sure how close anyone has come.  Something must be working, either vaccine or treatment, because some who have been exposed are recovering.  Maybe it's simply because there was no exchange of bodily fluids.

In today's Washington Post magazine, there's an article about the doctor who accidentally jabbed himself with a needle while treating Ebola patients in Sierra Leone.  Three days later his fever reached 103 degrees.   He  was flown back to NIH.   Since then, he's recovered and has gone home. It was a deep needle wound.  Did you read about him this morning, Pat?

During the panic here, I read the best thing people  can do to protect themselves...is to get a flu shot.  I remember being skeptical of that, it seemed so minor - until I read in this chapter how Ebola is related (distantly)  to  measles,  mumps, rabies, pneumonia...influenza

So, did you get your flu shot yet?  Did Nancy Jaax get hers?

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2014, 12:46:17 PM »
That was a long, but informative article in the New Yorker.   Thanks for that.  

Please correct me if I am wrong, but a virus mutates when it makes a mistake in copying itself.  Am trying to put this "mutation" in simple laymen's terms.  The mistake then copies itself; later makes mistakes and the mutations continue.

And growing the "cure" in tobacco!   An article in TIME states this:

"The process involves growing tobacco plants, not in the acres of fields earmarked by tobacco companies for their cigarettes, but in a controlled environment in a greenhouse, for six weeks. Then, the leaves of the plants are injected or infused with a plant bacterium that carries a valuable payload — the genes for the antibodies that can bind to and neutralize the Ebola virus. The plant cells treat the new genes as one of their own, and start making the antibody.

GINNY, no I am not afraid of birds outside as long as they continue to fly at the distance accorded them (by whom I don't know, but they seem to).  It was a bird inside that house within the confines of a room, flying into the window constantly, poor thing, but it frightened me very much, as is obvious by my recollection of it.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2014, 01:49:22 PM »
Yes, Ella, that's exactly what's happening in mutation.

The tobacco-based treatment is still in a stage where you wouldn't normally start giving it to patients; they have done so because the disease is so serious, and there isn't a better medicine.

Nancy Jaax certainly continued her level 4 work.  Parts two and three, fully half of this book, show her and Jerry six years later, fighting the outbreak in monkeys in a lab in Reston.  Whether or not Nancy's boss knew of the cut beforehand, I'm sure it came out in the accident investigation afterwards.  Maybe the protocols of that time allowed you to do that work with a cut, if you were properly gloved.

Although Nancy lost her cool when her glove was breached, she wasn't any worse than a lot of others.  She didn't panic when she first put on the suit as some do, running around screaming that they can't breathe.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2014, 02:12:42 PM »
Yes, JoanP, i did read that article in the Washington Post.  The doctor turned out not to be infected with Ebola.  The fever was apparently a reaction to the experimental drug he was given after the accident.  The accident was Murphy's Law at work: someone had left a needle dangling at the end of a used IV line.  The doctor disconnected it, and found the sharps discard container overflowing.  He stuck himself in the process of clearing up this mess.

Flu shots: that's not irrelevant to Ebola, since it starts off with similar symptoms, and too many people demanding Ebola testing would swamp the system.  I got mine in September.  Nancy Jaax had bad reactions to immunizations.  She might not have gotten one.

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2014, 02:59:48 PM »
I'll tell you what would get to me about that space suit - not being able to hear anything - or anyone! I remember going to a concert at Wolf Trap once - an outdoor venue.  I did notice a high wall of speakers on the right half of the stage, but was unprepared when the music started.  It was SO loud I was unable to hear anything but the music.  Tried to tell Bruce I couldn't hear him...and nearly panicked at the feeling we couldn't communicate. The band was the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.  Will never forget that! I can understand why others would panic in the roar of that spacesuit.

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8685
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2014, 03:55:56 PM »
HYSTERIA: So you read mysteries? So do I and many of us. Would you like to join our mystery discussion where we share what we've read, and get new ideas?

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=807.msg237737#msg237737

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2014, 07:24:00 PM »

Are you watching 60 Minutes?  

Focus is on Ebola outbreak in Liberia.  Heartbreaking...the little kids, being cared for...and then buried.
One doctor tells the Liberian people the virus is being spread by bats - since they are not getting sick.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2014, 07:26:39 PM »
We're scheduled to move on, to finish Part One, with the last three chapters: Ebola River, Cardinal, and Going Deep.  These describe the first known outbreaks of Ebola in 1976, Sudan and Zaire, plus another instance of Marburg in 1987, and a revisit to Kitum Cave.  They needn't take long, since we've already discussed some of the issues, four days at most, and while we're reading, we can also finish up our conversation about the Jaaxes.

After that, we'll move on to Part Two, where we'll read bigger chunks, since it's a more connected story, back to the Jaaxes and the Reston outbreak.

I put the timing in the heading.

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2014, 07:27:34 PM »
I hope some of you saw 60 Minutes tonight.  A wonderful segment with Lara Logan reporting right from inside a unit of American medical people in the heart of the epidemic in Liberia, Africa.  It shows exactly what they are doing.

pedln

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 6694
  • SE Missouri
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2014, 10:29:07 PM »
I watched that 60 Minutes segment tonight and it raised a question for me.  It said that little William's father had survived Ebola and now had immunity against the disease.  And it showed him caring for his sick child while not wearing protective covering.  I had not heard that about immunity before.  Have any of you?

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2014, 11:20:36 PM »
Yes, I have read that in several sources.  I am not medical at all, nor am I a Scientist, so I can tell you what I have read, but not explain it.  Apparently you ARE safe from being reinfected with Ebola right after you have recovered from it, but they have no assurance, since they do not have enough History, as to whether this lasts indefinitely.  Something about antibodies against the disease building up in your blood; and this is the time when they are now collecting some of that blood to infuse the sickest patients with.  But apparently there are viruses we have all had and do not seem to catch again, and others that people have had more than once.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10917
Re: The Hot Zone by Richard Preston- November Book Club Online
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2014, 07:13:10 AM »
I'm sorry I missed that 60 minutes.  Someone who saw it--could you tell us more about what was in it?