Lady of Shalott, The~ by Alfred Lord Tennyson~ February 9-28

[ginny]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

February  Book Club Online:

The Lady of Shalott
by Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809-1892 )

The Lady of Shalott by John William Waterhouse, “I am half-sick of shadows” (1916)

We've all heard of it, but what's it about, again? People have been enjoying arguing over the message for 150 years.   When's the last time you read it?

 Why not join us February 9?  Read it in 5 minutes, talk about it the rest of your life. What does  a 150 year old poem by Tennyson have to say to us in 2015?   Come tell us your thoughts about the many issues it raises: a woman who looks at life literally second hand, not only through a window but through a mirror as well, not daring to take part. What does that mean or say to us? Is the Internet in some ways a mirror freeing us from the closeness of face to face interaction?  

We'll have a great time with this one! Do  join us and share your thoughts starting February 9.
   



DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:


February 9-28

Interesting Links: :

~ Enjoy this haunting rendition of the poem in  ballad form  by Loreen McKenna with many beautiful illustrations

~A comparison of editions:  1833 and 1842 by The Camelot Project at the University of Rochester

~ Elaine of Astolat links

Elaine of Astolat is the maiden who dies of unrequited love for Lancelot and floats in a barge to Camelot with a letter for Lancelot clutched in her lifeless hand. She appears in Malory and in Tennyson's idyll of "Lancelot and Elaine." The figure of Elaine in the barge became one of the most popular Victorian images.

~ SC Edu Library Online Text

~ A wonderful page on the Lady by a pathologist with a very clever way of comparing the editions.

Discussion Leader: ginny

And there are knights in shining armor, too!! How up ARE you on your knights and armor? Take This delightful quiz from the Metropolitan Museum of Art and enjoy finding out!

[ginny]

Happy New Year and welcome, welcome, to something old to go with the new year: Tennyson! What could be better for a discussion than a short old poem that nobody agrees on?  What could it possibly have to say to US in 2015?

Let's find out. Please join us February 9 and let's talk about the issues the poem raises today. We have tons of historic gorgeous art to share and loads of side issues to chew on, and with the backgrounds of our astute readers here, we'll have a feast,  for sure.

We'll each have our own take on the story and what's happening. Why Camelot, for instance?  I am very interested, personally,  in her choice (or was it, and if not why not?) to look at the world outside not only thru a window but through the reflection in a  mirror, and what a modern parallel might be. Do you know anybody like that?

This is going to be one  for the books!

Please  let us know if you're in so we can put it officially on the schedule! Nothing to buy,  no right or wrong answers, read it if you like when you like, just come armed with your ideas or your questions on the 9th and let's see what happens.

Everyone is welcome!

[Frybabe]

Oh this is great. The Lady of Shalott has been in the back of my mind and pops  back up now and again. It's one of those things that I get reminded of and then promptly forget for some reason. I remember seeing part an an old movie with Katharine Hepburn called The Madwoman of Chaillot. It seems I confused that with the poem. Was the poem an inspiration for that film I wonder? I'll find out in February because I will be here.

[nlhome]

Sounds like an interesting discussion.

[ginny]

Nlhome!!! So glad to see you! Oh I think so, there's so much here and I know our astute readers will make it one. I'm hoping it will be like our former The Yellow Wallpaper, that was sooo much fun!

And here you are, the first one on the first day of the year! How much better can you get?

Welcome! I hope you will join us!

[nlhome]

I watched/listened to the ballad while sipping my coffee. Now I'll have to read it more carefully.

[ginny]

Isn't that a pretty thing?

[PatH]

I'm in--wouldn'miss it.

[JoanK]

I remember reading the poem in high school and being chastised by a teacher for reading ahead of the assigned schedule. What a joy to read and discuss it with friends, knowing that you won't be tested on whether you "got it" or not.

[Venia]

What a lovely piece to read again...I'll be there!

[ginny]

Oh WOW!! What an exciting thing to look in here and see so many assembling!  A new year's gift! This is so fun!  I must admit I am quite excited about it. It's been a long time since I did a book discussion here and I'm half scared to death and half running off on tangents.

Frybabe!! I am so sorry,  I somehow missed your post!! You said, " I remember seeing part an an old movie with Katharine Hepburn called The Madwoman of Chaillot. It seems I confused that with the poem."

Oooo another element already enters the mix!!  I just read the plot of that one...golly....I wonder if there is any connection, however obscure? I mean, the theme? Surely that can't be a coincidence. Don't forget about it? We may need to talk about it! Welcome!

No fear of chastisement here, Joan K!!!  Welcome, so glad to see you here! We'll need all our smart hands on deck to help us with this one.  hahahaa won't this be fun?

Oh and Pat H!! How marvelous, well we can't lose now,  and we're in no difficulty of missing anything. I am becoming obsessed with the Camelot/ myth/ legend  thing for some reason.

Venia!  Welcome, welcome! We are so glad to see you here. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it.  It is lovely.   I'm really loving this entire experience, so far, and so excited to see so many people here to share it with!

(Have any of you tried the arms and armor quiz? It's really fun!)

Welcome, All!!

[ginny]

And to be a tiny little poem there's an awful lot to this thing. The two versions alone by the same author are quite different.... this is really going to be fun.

[salan]

Count me in.  I don't think I've read the entire poem since high school & yet parts of it still stick with me.  Looking forward to reading it again & discussing it.
Sally

[kidsal]

OK

[ginny]

Sally! (Salan) Welcome, welcome! So glad to see you here. Reading your post made me reflect on  What We Read in High School.  That alone would make a fabulous discussion. Should, in fact, our youth be exposed to wonderful glorious prose?

Or is it wasted on the young? I am positive Caesar is, just a total waste, and worse, they hate it.

Sally! (Kidsal) you folks in Wyoming are of few words! hahahaa  Reminds me of John Wayne. I hope that means you will join us? (What is your opinion of Caesar for the high school student?)

So now we have, among our wonderful participants, two sets of pairs:  The Two Sallys, and the Dynamic Duo Twins, PatH and Joan K! It will be double the fun!

Everyone is welcome, even if they don't like Caesar...well, maybe we can change their minds.

Salan is so right about parts of it sticking with you.  Stuck with Agatha Christie who called one of her books The Mirror Cracked... hard not to comment, isn't it?

For memorable lines, Tennyson is the best. Think of Judy Dench in  Skyfall, that marvelous quote.

Welcome, All!

[bellamarie]

If it's Camelot, you must count me in!  I have read this awhile back, and found it very confusing, and intriguing.  I can't say much of it stayed with be then, but then I wasn't really looking for it to, since I came across by accident, it while searching for more of Tennyson's works. 

When I think of Camelot, I immediately think of the Kennedy family.  John F. & Jackie, they did make Camelot all come alive once again, if only for a little while.  Then of course John Jr., and his beautiful bride of such a short time, Carolyn Bessette.  She seemed so regal, and he so dashing, you could easily mistake them for a Lord and Lady.  I suppose you will have to label me as the hopeless romantic of the discussion Ginny.  Feb 9th, just in time for Valentine's Day, the day for lovers to express their undying love for each other.

[ginny]

Welcome, welcome, Bellamarie!~ So glad to have you. Good point!

Camelot. What images that brings up! Romance, knights in armor, castles, chivalry...Is  the original Camelot, Arthur, Lancelot, etc.,  a myth or legend, or perhaps a folk tale?  Or do people think it is true?   I must look over the definitions again, because it makes a difference. I hope some of you who are interested in the Arthur and Camelot story will help us by doing some research (please not on  Wiki anything) and enlighten us as to what Arthur is now considered. I remember standing at what is thought to be the  " original round table" (it was big and it was round and in a huge barn like meeting hall),  and going to Tintagel, and being told it was all a myth, that he did not exist. This was by the people in charge of the sites.  And if it is a myth, what did it represent to last so long? To last long enough to be applied to a U.S. president?  Why was it told and why is it in this story? What does it symbolize? I have, as always, millions of questions and NO answers.

Of course I'm still trying to get over laughing at Dan Stevens, formerly of Downton Abbey in his role as Lancelot in the movie Night at the Museum 3. Man is a HOOT.

But I like your romantic view of Camelot, and it seems that The Lady of Shalott seemed to share it. Or possibly not? What fun this will be! I hope we all can take a different point of interest on this one, in that way we can figure out what we think it says, anyway.  There's plenty of room for Camelot/ Arthur scholars/ enthusiasts,  and Tennyson scholars and we need you ALL!

Welcome!

[Frybabe]

Oh my, Ginny, you've thrown down the gauntlet. You know I can't resist researching stuff.

[nlhome]

Way back in the very early 1970's, while living in California when my husband was in the Navy (and we had no money, but that is another story), I read Mary Stewart's Crystal Cave, the first of her Arthurian books. I remember really enjoying that book, and I think I read the other two in the trilogy. While I don't remember much about the books themselves, what I do remember is telling one of my husband's sailor buddies about how great it was but that I didn't think he would like it. He came back a week later and flicked me on the arm lightly and said "That's for saying I wouldn't like The Crystal Cave." Truth, fiction or a bit of both, it's a fascinating legend.

[Frybabe]

I've started looking into the legend. It is just as tangled now as it was when I was young. One of the he latest findings involve structural features. One involves a feature called the King's Knot on the grounds of Stirling Castle. The description of which leads me to believe that it was an old garden (perhaps fountain?) feature what with the old drainage channels mentioned. The other is that the Roman Amphitheater in Chester may have been used as Arthur's "roundtable".

I found a reference that said that the term 'Welsh' is a corruption of a Saxon word, 'weala', meaning 'foreigners'.  And referred peoples covering a much larger area than the current country of Wales.

Where-ever King Arthur was born, he certainly got around and everyone seems to want him for their own. In one of the newest books out, author and amateur historian Adam Ardrey (one of those who believes King Arthur was a Scot) believes that he died at battle of Camlann, near Falkirk, and was buried on Iona. The books (yes, he wrote one about the real Merlin too) look interesting. http://finding-merlin.com/

Dr. Caitlin R. Green, has also written fairly recently about the Arthurian legend. She is an historian and author who specializes in late Roman and early medieval Britain. http://www.caitlingreen.org/

I suppose I must actually read the poem to zero in on what is pertinent to it.

[ginny]

Frybabe, super, I am glad you are IN!~! Lovely research, and  you make a good point too, the History Channel, while labeling Arthur a myth and a legend, does point out that there is no way humanly possible that he could have been everywhere his legend depicts him as being. When we start we can bring that here, too.  Thank you for that link, too. I'll put it in the heading once we get started.


Nlhome,   hhahaa Yes, those are wonderful books! And Ivanhoe of course, who could forget Ivanhoe.

The deal is, it's the concept that the legend or myth  perpetuates, the attempt of a people who are "pre literate," that is, not everybody is reading about this man when he lived, to convey their own culture, their own validation of social institutions, their own explanations for what matters to them... since we have no living representative of that time to ask.

We have our own myths. it's like saying to an American " George Washington."  That brings up a million images, and he was a real man. However if you say George Washington and the tree, everybody knows which tree and if you say George  Washington threw a coin across..... then everybody knows what river and what  happened, or they think they know, those two bits are apparently apocryphal,  and so with Arthur and the sword in the stone and Camelot, and the round table, who is to say that some of that is not right? Who is to say which is false?   Legends grow with time,   and the telling, too.

And Frybabe is right, it's confused. And that's one thing I like about the Lady of Shalott, her poem is, too, it's confused. It's almost a fog.   I LOVE what he's done with it because it gives US the delight of trying to unravel it...just like her loom.....We will enjoy this one!  ( I already enjoy it).

Everyone is welcome to join!

[bluebird24]

Will we do 1832 and 1842 poems? This is new. I want to learn more.

http://www.kingarthursknights.com/etc/pictures.asp


Frybabe
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phq_lW4-Q2E

[bluebird24]

www.fanpop.com/clubs/anjs-angels/images/33378986/title/camelot


click castle picture

[ginny]

Welcome, Bluebird! Yes I think we will need to include both versions. I like the way some websites post them parallel to each other, it makes it clear what the differences are. That's a good point: we will enjoy seeing the difference.

And of course we'll want to learn why there are two versions, good points!

I am not able to get anything in the Camelot link?

[Frybabe]

Thanks for the links, Bluebird.

Years and years ago, we went through Stirling on a tour trip up to Loch Katrine. I remember Stirling, Callander and the boat trip on the lake, but that is about it. I do not remember any references to Sir Walter Scott or The Lady of the Lake. Loch Katrine: http://www.visitscotland.com/info/towns-villages/loch-katrine-p662921

Unfortunately, we did not get to tour the castle at Stirling, only seeing it from the town. I am a bit surprised that the King's Knot feature is so far from the castle and on the plain, not up on the ridge with the castle.

While looking into Loch Katrine, I ran across these nteresting, and totally unrelated to our poem, articles about Gregor MacGregor, master con artist http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21568583-biggest-fraud-history-warning-professional-and-amateur-investors and Rob Roy. http://www.incallander.co.uk/rob_roy.htm

Does anyone know if Shalott represents a real place? Or did Tennyson just come up with something to rhyme for his poem?

[bluebird24]

http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.co.uk/king_arthur.html

pictures

[bluebird24]

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33300000/Camelot-Castle-anjs-angels-33378986-1248-704.jpg

Ginny,try this page.

[ginny]

Thank you for those  links, Bluebird. The first one of Tintagel is very pretty.

Frybabe, I have no idea, I hope to discover that, too, when we begin. What interesting things you unearth!

[bluebird24]

http://landoflegendslv.com/01library/01archives/03maps/Maps.html

[Frybabe]

What fun, Bluebird. I like maps. And, look there is Tenby. I've been there visiting relatives. If I remember correctly there was a little island you could walk over to at low tide, St. Catherine's Island. I don't remember a fort on it. I see from a history that they closed the island in the 70's, and that recently some developer wanted to open it up again and put in a suspension walkway. I do not remember the lovely harbor or the colorful houses. I do remember my relative's house; look out the back window and there was a huge open dump. That is also where I became acquainted with a huge cat (and it wasn't just fat) who quite literally knocked me onto my back while I was sitting on the floor.

Some nice pix on Tripadvisor:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g191253-Tenby_Pembrokeshire_Wales-Vacations.html#photos
Click on the big pic and it will bring up a slideshow.

[ginny]

Oh how lovely. Thank you Bluebird for those gorgeous maps. Just really what we think of when we think Camelot...Beautiful.

Frybabe, what a lovely link!  Thank you for that, too.

There's a wonderful article in the History Magazine put out by the BBC for last month on Geoffrey of Monmouth who, in the 1100's  recounted in his History of the Kings of Britain all these legends and lore. They say he invented Arthur and that his contemporaries didn't believe a word he wrote. But hark!! NOW they are saying that a lot of what he wrote must have been true after all...giants monsters and all, it was all part of the oral history of the times. It's absolutely fascinating. There's a lovely Penguin book out on him and I've got it and I am going to thoroughly enjoy my dip into the water of this fabulous time.

I remember reading Ivanhoe and almost never got over it. I haven't looked at it in years, what wonderful magic these stories hold! And of course who has not seen Camelot in some form? I have seen...believe it or not, Rock Hudson in summer theater in Camelot and Richard Burton in his last performance in Lincoln Center too.

In short, there's simply not
 A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here In Camelot.

I have to say that the idea of Camelot is certainly more appealing than the current news!

Join us February 9!

Everybody is welcome!

[Ella Gibbons]

GINNY, ditto, anything is better than the news.   I'll be following along, may not have anything to say, but this is a unique offering here in the books; should be a grand discussion.

My maiden name is Welsh - EVANS - and years ago we had a  90-year-old aunt who flew from California to visit relatives she had never met and she knew all those people who immigrated from Wales.  If I looked hard enough for the book perhaps among all my stored junk I could find the book she wrote about them  - it had  a blue hardcover on it.

I can't write it here but we had such a laugh when she told us the difference between a man and a woman in Wales.  But I can say she stated that in Wales you either were a preacher or a farmer.    Best to be a preacher because the farmers see to all your needs.

Loved that castle, wouldn't want to live there though.

[JoanK]

ELLA: are you familiar with the mystery series about the Constable "Evan Evans". He lives in a Welsh village where everyone is named Evans, and people are called by their job (Evans-the baker etc).

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/b/rhys-bowen/

[ginny]

Ella! Welcome, welcome!

Oh I'm betting you'll find plenty to say....I hope so, anyway, because we always benefit from your thoughts!

We begin February 9th with a bang up question!

Joan K, how neat!   I am not familiar with those books, I'll get one and see how I like it.

Everybody is welcome!   

[Frybabe]

Ella, Evans is very common, I know, but my Mom was also an Evans, from Merthyr Tidfil.

[Steph]

Hmm, am here, but not quite sure what I will contribute. I am not fond of digressions.

[ginny]

Why, Stephanie! How nice to see you here!  I  will bet you a lunch you will enjoy this one!! Welcome!

[salan]

marking

[Halcyon]

I'll give it a whirl.

[ginny]

Halcyon! Fabulous!! So glad to see you here and Salan as well! Wonderful!!

I'm really looking forward to hearing what everybody thinks about the issues we'll bring up here. That's often the MOST fun, because we're all so different. So many different lifetime experiences, theoretically we should all see something different.

We'll find out Monday the 9th! Everybody read it before Monday, if you can, it's in the heading. Although I have to be honest and say that I doubt I'll ever think of it again without that song running through my head, she really nailed that, I think.

But I've got a million questions with no answers, so I am very excited to finally get to do this!

Everyone is welcome!