Three Cups of Tea ~ Mortenson & Relin ~ May 1st ~ Book Club Online

[Justin]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.

Three Cups of Tea by Greg Mortenson & David Oliver Relin "The first time that you share tea with a Balti, you are a stranger" a villager tells our author.  "The second time, you are an honored guest.  The third time you become family." ~ Three  Cups of Tea ______________ Three Cups of Tea is an inspirational story of one man's efforts to address poverty, educate girls, and overcome cultural divides.  This book won the 2007 Kiriyama Prize for nonfiction revealing the enormous obstacles inherent in becoming such "family." ~ Bookmarks Magazine

Three Cups of Tea -- Homepage. Ignorance -- the Real Enemy. Synopsis and Biography. Readers' Guide by the Author. K2 Mountain.

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Discussion Schedule May 1 - 7         Chapters 1 - 6 May 8 - 14       Chapters 7 - 12 May 15 - 21      Chapters 13 - 18 May 22 - 31      Chapters 19 - End

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1.  What made Mortenson particularly ripe for such a transformation?  Has anything similar happened in your own life? 2.  Is Mortenson someone that you would like to know, work with or have as a neighbor or friend? 3.  At the heart of the book is a powerful but simple poliical message: we each as individuals have the power to change the world, one cup of tea at a time,  etc.

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Discussion Leaders: Andy(ALF43), JoanK & Pedln

Yes, Mahlia,  the discontent that started between the Sunni and the Shi'tes just after the death of of the Prophet has unfortunately persisted till today and is one source of conflict in the Middle East. The problem with the Saudi, as I understand it, is the extremism of the Wahabi and the peculiar personality of the Prince who served as Ambassador. I think he was recalled at one point or is the proper term "left without portfolio."

[Persian]

I was in Washington during many of the years when Bandar served as the Saudi Ambassador.  Not only was he popular among the diplomatic community, but also with the American govt.  He was comfortable moving back and forth between the austere Saudi culture and the contemporary American and European cultures represented in Washington, as well as  the more conservative worldwide Islamic cultures (although many not as rigid as Saudi Arabia). 

Equally, Bandar was comfortable in the American West, especially at the ski resorts, and in areas where he owned property. He could be enormously diplomatic, but also extremely friendly and jovial in the Western sense, especially with potential business sources who might be interested in establishing a presence in the Middle East.  Bandar was popular with the Washington diplomatic and USG crowd, less so with some of the lesser-ranked officials in various embassies.  He visited the senior Bush households in New England and Texas on numerous occasions and was always warmly welcomed.  Yet it became increasingly clear that his time as a central force in D.C. was coming to an end and he "retired" from his long held position or in another sense was "redeployed" to other (less visible) responsibilities.

Mahlia

[Justin]

That's beautiful, Mahlia. You should have been a foreign service person.

[Babi]

  I found the description of the patience of the Balti's gave me an insight into
their view of life.  They are accustomed to waiting for what they want in life.
A Balti hunter may stalk an ibex for days; a bridegroom may wait years for his
bride; the Baltis had already been waiting decades for the schools the government had promised them.  Waiting another year or two for a school, while Mortenson raised money and they built a bridge, was nothing at all.
Can you imagine a Westerner being that patient?

  And then, that bit on Mortenson's departure from Korphe with "eleven Korphe men who insisted on seeing him off..."   I see two things here. One is an eagerness to participate in anything that breaks the routine and monotony.
The other is the right of the individual man to do as he pleases.  If he wants to go, he will go, even if it means a dozen bodies in one jeep,..including Mortenson's quite large one.

[ALF43]

I chuckled as Mortenson finally traveled in that rickety 350 foot cable car suspended on a cable over the gorge, a hundred feet above the Braldu .  He describes it saying it was “like a fruit crate held together with a few nails.”    Here's a guy who scales enormous mountain tops and jumps crevasses and he feels nervous contemplating the “plunge.” 

BABI- I quite agree with this:

I was surprised, tho', that it did not occur to Mortenson from the beginning
that the school materials could not be conveyed across that gorge w/o a
bridge.

I think he was just so focused on the task at hand the bridge dilemma never occurred to him.  The way that these Korphe men cheerfully worked shifting, lifting and hoisting is a testimony for Mortenson, isn't it? 

I love the way that our co-author injected George Schaller, the biologist's trek into our story which led to the amazing documentary The Snow Leopard.  He writes

The world's great mountains demand more than mere physical appreciation....mountains become an appetite." 

 (I love that and it helps me to better see through the eyes of the climber's.

We were once invited to a "dessert party'" when we lived outside of Phoenix.  When we trekked through the trails to get to this outing I was in awe!  It was one of the most spectacular scenery I have ever witnessed.
 There, just above us, we watched long horn sheep climbing these massive cliffs as if they were walking down a highway.  It was a glorious, sunny panoramic view and we stood there enjoying not only the breathtaking view but admiring the sure-footedness of the sheep.
I thought of that when DOR wrote of the alpine ibex so revered by the Balti.

[pedln]

Mahlia, I’m glad you told us about the mosque in DC.  I’m sure I’ve passed it many times as Mass Ave is my son’s favorite way to downtown from his home.  Next time I’m there I’ll be sure to look for it.  When I read your comments about the disagreements with the Saudis and some of the other Muslims my first thought was “other faiths don’t do that.”  But of course that isn’t true.  How often we hear about groups who break away from  their churches in disagreements over scripture or policy or what have you, not to mention differences within denominations.  But, for someone who knows so little about Islam it is difficult to understand the core of disagreement among the various sects.

Babi, like you, I’m surprised that GM didn’t consider the bridge in his planning.  Surely he  remembered how Mouzafer had crossed the Braldu R. in a rickety box attached to a cable.  Surely he didn’t think they would carry cement and lumber in that.

Here is the Braldu, without benefit of cable.  Does it dry up in summer, I wonder.  This doesn't look like water.

Braldu River

Here is a bridge at Skardu.  Not sure if the one at Korphe will be like this.

A bridge at Skardu

“Mortenson woke at first light.  . . .he stepped out into the damp street.  . .  .   . .18,000 ft peaks hidden behind clouds.  And without the mountains Skardu … .  .. .. seemed unaccountably ugly.”

 And he wondered if he’d made it into a mythical kingdom and had invented the Baltistan and it’s people that he believed in.  A pretty discouraging moment.

Skardu, not in it's glory

Can you picture the roads, the overcrowded vehicles.  Korphe is 112 kilometers from Skardu – my math is off a bit, but that’s about 60 miles, thereabouts.  And it was an eight- hour trip?

Getting off the main drag

The Skardu turnoff from the Karakoram Highway.  I think Greg would have been near hear on the ride up from Rawalpindi.  Click to enlarge the picture, then find that little road (left of the sign) heading west.

[Persian]

PEDLN - here's a link to the Islamic Center on Mass. Avenue in Washington DC.  Look familiar?  http://www.theislamiccenter.com/

Rivers in Central Asia like the Braldu, often dry up and leave the impression of an old gorge, which is rocky, but not wet.  Then when the snows begin to melt in the Spring and the water comes rushing down those vast mountains, the unassuming gorge (challenging as it may look when its dry) becomes a raging river in a very short time.  And if that happens at night, when visibility is unlimited (although the violent sound of the rushing river gives pretty good clues), the dangers to folks in the area are enormous.  On the other hand, there are rural mountain villages so separated from any others that inhabitants travel for miles to stock up on river or stream water and transport it many miles back to their homesites.

I've walked along many village streets like the one in the picture you posted.  The big challenge is to remain calm, not over-react, and not to "lose one's lunch" in the process . . . at least for a few days until you can assimilate.

Mahlia

[Babi]

PEDLN, that photo of the river is huge! However did they manage that
photograph, I wonder?  But to the subject, the rivers pick up so much
soil they are almost liquid mud thru' much of their length. I understand
the Ganges is a very muddy river.  I have to assume the people do
something to that water so they can drink it.

When I clicked on the Skardu bridge link, I got a blank page entitled
403 FORBIDDEN.  That makes you wonder, doesn't it? 

 Another clue to the outlook of the people in this country: "Inshallah."
'Allah willing.'  DOR calls it "the only realistic way to answer any question involving transportation in the Northern Areas".  Living like this, I would
think people really to learn to leave things in God's hands.

[Persian]

BABI -  Indeed, in the harsher of climates and communities, it is a BIG relief to await God's blesssing (or not) and when there is an answer, some folks tend to accept it with a quietly intoned Mā šāʾ Allāh , which means "God has willed it."  The answer has been given.  Others, of course, may become hysterical, screaming, tearing their hair and skin, acting absolutely "out of bounds" according to Western customs.

Many years ago, I knew a wonderful Egyptian family in Maryland, who happened to live only a few houses from a dear friend and former colleague of mine.  When my colleague's father died in her house of a sudden heart attack, she of course called for an ambulance.  When the Egyptian neighbors saw the ambulance arrive, they ran to my friend's home to see what had happened and if they could help.  By the time my friend called me a few minutes later and I also ran to her house, the Egyptian women were screaming at the top of their lungs in the driveway, creating all kinds of emotional havoc.  My friend was standing near the door of the ambulance and pleaded with me "PLEASE make them stop screaming!!"  First I tried talking to the Egyptian women, then embracing them and then . . . with a prayer in mind . . . I slapped all three on the cheeks - not a light tap, but very hard.  They instantly became silent and then I began the prayers, and the women joined in.  When I glanced at the ambulance driver and raised my eyebrows in question at him, he nodded and quietly said "the gentleman has passed." 

We then turned to the prayers which are said for the departed during the first few minutes after death.  All this was in the driveway of my friend's home.  As the ambulance drove away, we all embraced my friend, the Egyptian women returned to their home, and my friend and I followed the ambulance in my car on "a journey of love."  And - we still talk about this today - we stayed up all night in a 24 hour coffee shop, writing and rewriting the funeral service for her father.

On a happier topic - A WONDERFUL HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY TO ALL MOMS AND GRANDMOMS AND GREAT-GRANDMOMS!

Mahlia

[PatH]

Mahlia, thanks for the link to the Islamic center.  I see it was dedicated in 1957.  It must have been soon after that that Bob and I went to see it.  I was lucky enough to run into an acquaintance, and he graciously showed us everything that was open to us.  It was a long time ago and I don't remember details, but I do remember how impressed I was with the beauty of it.

You can see in some of the pictures on the site that the main building behind the facade is not lined up with the street.  It's even clearer on Google maps.  Put in the address, 2551 Massachusetts Ave, NW, Washington, DC, 20008, and look at the satellite view.  The main building points sort of northeast, which surprised me, because I think of Mecca as being east and just a bit south, but I worked out the great circle route on my globe, and indeed, as the crow flies, Mecca is northeast of here.

[PatH]

Oops, I said northwest when I meant northeast--now corrected.

[PatH]

Pedln, thanks for those links.  They add a lot.  One picture really is worth a thousand words.

[pedln]

Babi, I don’t know why you couldn’t get the bridge picture to open. (It works for me)

The soon to be built Korphe Bridge is almost a symbol of the price of progress, perhaps a symbol of contrasts and conflicts.  It will open up many doors, but what else will it bring.  Will it bring all the things negative from Skardu and Askole?  Will there be expeditions starting from Korphe, leaving all their human waste?  Or will it mean better medical care, better education, better access to the rest of the world?

While trekking through rain and mud up to Korphe, Greg thought much about Norberg-Hodge’s book that reflected much of what he was thinking.  Isn’t   preserving a way of life among happy people more important than improving their life?  Yes?  No?  My question would be, “ who are you going to let decide?” 


Are you finding the moral standards interesting?  Compare that rogue Changazi with Haji Ali’s son Twaha, who seems like a sweet guy.  (Guess I need new classes, I was reading handhok as handbook and thought the man had a list of available widows.)

But troubled as Mortenson was, he knew what his priority goal was, and so did the elders of Korphe.  Were y ou surprised to find that they had already cut the rocks from nearby hillsides rather than having to have them brought in?  And now every able-bodied man in Korphe was carrying coil – except for Mortenson, who was too tall.  Too much tilt.

Mahlia, what a touching experience with your friend.  You knew exactly what to do, but I imagine that many would be afraid to slap someone in that situation. 

[Persian]

PEDLN - Reading your comment about GM being "too tall with too much tilt" reminded me of what I thought was a large moving brush shrub while I was in a rural area of China many years ago.  I watched the movement for a few minutes and finally called one of my students to ask "what's making that move?"  The student started laughing out loud and called two other students to come and look.  They also broke into laughter, while one of them approached the moving object, called out something and stood back while the shrub stopped - "tilted" upwards - and a tiny woman appeared.  She glanced at the student who stood nearby, then saw the others with me in the middle.  She looked at me for a couple of seconds, then bent forward again and resumed her step-by-step journey of carrying what I later found out from the students was enough brush for her hearth for one day.  The woman traveled a great distance EACH DAY to hunt for brush to heat her home, cook her food and warm her tea!

Mahlia

[Babi]

"..thought the man had a list of available widows."

   Thanks for the grin, Pedlin.

“..who are you going to let decide?”

  I think you've touched on something very important here, PEDLIN. It is all too easy for those who want to be benefactors, to think that they are the ones to decide what people should have. Decisions made for others 'for their own good' are so arrogant, aren't they?

   Some more barriers are being dropped. Haji Ali's wife, Sakina, actually took
Mortenson's hand, the first time a Balti woman had ever touched him. And he, in a similar gesture, crossed over the 'threshold' into her kitchen, an area that
men stayed out of.   Jahan reports that Sakina was shocked that Greg went into her kitchen, but "she already thought of him as her own child, so she accepted it. Soon, her ideas changed, and she begin to tease my grandfather
that he should learn how to be more helpful like his American son."
   Ah, the dangerous power of new ideas!

[fairanna]

I just keep reading -the whole concept is almost unbelievable So many are willing to take a chance to see the children have a school and education   Doing a good deed is always special but the requirements and the courage in this book seems impossible and to make it happen certainly requires faith and bravery far beyond most///I am with everyone in the story and while M seems to face it with equanimity I am breathless I know it will turn out well but you have to think how much human endurance is being tried ....

[JoanK]

The pictures are wonderful. The river reminds me of the waddis I saw in Israel and the American Southwest. I guess it is the same in all dry climates. During the dry season, they dry up, and then when the snows melt: whoosh with very little warning. Tragically, someone seems to get killed almost every year, often children who have wandered out to play. I remember first going over a bridge over the Rio Grande and wondering why it was 10 times as wide as the river. That Spring, I understood.

The picture of the Mosque does not do justice to it's beauty, IMO. How tragic that it became the seat of such dissention. If you are surprised at such dissention in a religion, read about the middle ages in Europe. For centuries, people were killed for worshipping at the wrong Christian Church.

[ALF43]

Bless all of you and please do not think that I am ignoring any of your posts!
I have run into a dilemma today and have been unable to respond to your insightful thoughts. 

I have one thing to say before I adrdess the inherent problems of exchanging one value for another as has been posited- and that is to quote GM:

"the true maeasure of a nation's scuccess is not gross nations product, but "gross national happiness."

...."Mortenson felt sure that despite all that they lacked, the Balti stiill held the key to a kind of uncomplicated happiness that was disappearing in the developing world as fast as old growth forests."

Everything, absolutely everything is a trade off for something else.  Some one once told me that was true and that when it came to $, it was equally the same-- it is only a means for an exchange. 

[Persian]

Here's a link to an excellent article I just read in the June issue of the Good Housekeeping magazine, entitled "Teach a Girl,  Save the World" by Judith Stone regarding Mortenson's efforts in Central Asia and how his own children - 12 year old daughter,  Amira and 8 year old son, Khyber have joined him in helping to build schools and continue the Pennies for Peace Program.  Amira has traveled with her parents to Central Asia, joins her Dad at speaking engagements, and encourages youngsters and youth to participate.  It is an amazing story of family love, affection, encouragement and a great outreach by multiple generations to help others in an area of the world Not well-known in the West.

http://www.threecupsoftea.com/2009/05/05/goodhousekeeping-may-05-09/

In the hard copy of the article in the June edition, there is a note about Mortenson's forthcoming book, Stones Into Schools (scheduled for publication in December 2009).  This might be a follow-up selection for this discussion in 2010.

The link below is a slide show of the Mortenson family:

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/family/real/pennies-for-peace

Mahlia

[ALF43]

 Mahlia- wow, what a find you presented here for us. 
That slide show is overwhelming.  Thank you. I will attempt  to put that url above in our heading so that we can reference it as we progress.

What a beautiful family Mortenson has and how blessed he is to have their undying faith and assistance?
Says Greg, "

I'm very serious; my kids have taught me to see life as a child, and to have joy — that there's fun and beauty in little things. I consult with my daughter whenever I can."

 

We all can learn from the heart of a child.

What did everyone think about Greg's unlikely meeting on a trail with George McCown, another treker and an American sponser of another expedition?  That was a treasured moment for both of the gentlemen and I cracked up over McCown assuming the role of the "big shot" from America.

He became "one of Mortenson's most powerful advocates."

Back in the states he offered Greg 20 grand for himself, to live on.  I wish that I could impress someone to that extent.

What a diplomate this Mortenson turns out to be insisting that Korphe's chief lay the last plank for the bridge.
 

The completion of a swaying 284 foot span, with neat concrete arches on either end, the sturdy three-tiered stone foundation and the webwork of cables that anchored it all together.

What an awe-inspiring accomplishment for eveyone in attendance and our very first Korphe school teacher was chosen.

 

[Babi]

  I was so pleased when Greg finally find the woman he wanted to marry, and
was delighted to find MAHLIA's link showing us his family now.  What a terrific
example these kids have in setting their own goals for life. I also had a smile for the wry comment from Tara's mother, "Well, you're thirty-one and you've kissed a lot of toads. If you think he's your prince, then I'm sure he is."
  ALF, I also had a 'Yeah!' for the quote from Norberg-Hodge that says the
true measure of a nation's success ought to be "gross national happiness".
I suspect we would not far quite so well with that measure.

 Another aspect of a difficult life in this mountainous country. "I've seen men in the groom's family literally trying to pry the bride and her mother apart with all their strength, while the women scream and wail.  If a bride leaves an isolated village like Korphe, she knows she may never see her family again."  I remembered that later when DOR spoke of the bridge enabling
the women of Korphe to see their families again on a regular basis.  The use of the now 'in' phrase 'empower women' seemed odd, tho', to me.  The
bridge made their life easier and happier. Is that empowerment?

[ALF43]

I don't know Babi.  Empowerment means to enable or entitle.  Semantics, would be the problem here, I think. 
 It would give them the privilege or advantage to cross over the bridge and sanction their visitation wouldn't it?

[Persian]

In this context, I think of empowerment as encouraging the women to be more positive in their lives as they move ahead from day to day, remembering that they now have the physical means to "bridge" the distance between their birth families and their marital ones.  The isolation of NOT having any means to visit birth families after marriage is a horrendous thought.

I recall that my husband has spoken many times of the regular visits his Mother made to her family in Egypt and how they struggled without her, missing her every day, and his Father wandering from room to room, counting the days (perhaps the hours) until she returned .  She was always refreshed, happy, full of love for her husband, sons and daughters, BUT insistent that she "needed" the visits with her birth family and "of course she still loved them, you naughty little boys and girls."  That last comment sent everyone into peals of laughter!

Mahlia

[PatH]

Mahlia, thanks for the link to that excellent article.  I was especially heartened to learn that almost none of the schools have been destroyed.  The villagers worked so hard to get them that they defended them fiercely.  That reinforces what everyone has been saying about the importance of giving people what they know they want rather than what you think they should have,

[pedln]

Mahlia, a wonderful article and slide show.  And I hope to have a chance to read many of the other articles about Mortenson listed under each year in the sidebar.  That whole link is a real treaure trove.

Greg makes a good point when he explains why the CAI schools were not damaged -- they were schools that involved the whole community -- planned by them, built by them.  As was pointed out in the first section of the book, Greg was invited, almost manipulated into building schools in two other villages before he even got back to Korphe.

[Babi]

  Funny, isn't it, how Greg was wondering what to do re. a career once the Korphe school was finished.  It didn't seem to occur to him that he had found his career already, until it was pointed out to him.  And, of course, a way of making a living while doing it was found.
  Thanks for the replies about 'empowerment'.  I guess I think of it as having power in one's own hands.  But having the 'power' to visit family at will is a form of it, I suppose.
    I am bewildered by the warfare between Sunni and Shia followers, both of
whom are Muslims. But then, I am equally horrified by the hostilities that existed between Catholics and Protestants, both of whom are Christians.
One can become so discouraged at times over the behavior of people. Shucks, even God gets fed up from time to time.
   Then I read a statement like the one by Mouzafer, and I am encouraged
 again.  "I am poor, and can only offer him my prayer. Also the strength of my back. This I gladly give so he could build his school."

  Did you notice, that in the photograph of Haji Ali he is wearing the brown lambswool 'topi'.  It was his way of identifying who he was in the village, and he only wore it when he was functioning in that position. He strikes me as a simple and wise man, and one of integrity.  I found it hard to understand why he gave in to that bullying Haji from a neighboring village, who came trying to tell them what they could and could not do in their own village, and demanding
a bribe of their precious rams.  I suppose Haji Ali felt a fight between his people and the crew of toughs bearing clubs could only end badly, but it really goes against the grain with me to give in to bullies. An example, no doubt, of when wisdom is better than pride.

[ALF43]

I am with you on your assessment of HHaji Ali, Babi.

He strikes me as a simple and wise man, and one of integrity.

He was the nurmadhar, the chief, of Korphe that first escorted Mortenson through the gate with great hospitality. He is a wise man, as all chiefs must be, and he showed such kindness, didn't he?  His features are so strong in that picture that you mentioned.  He stands proud and imposing.

Babi you mentioned:

Funny, isn't it, how Greg was wondering what to do re. a career once the Korphe school was finished.  It didn't seem to occur to him that he had found his career already, until it was pointed out to him.  And, of course, a way of making a living while doing it was found.

Is it possible that when Greg witnessed one of his own personal heroes speak, the decision was then made?  He was enthralled listening to the 75 year old Sir Edmund Hillary, or "Ed from the Edge" as he called himself.   At this point in time   he met Tara as Hillary said.

"I have enjoyed great satisfaction from my climb to Everest.  But my most worthwhile things have been the building of schools and medical clinics.  That has given me more satisfaction than a footprint on a mountain."

That was like an epiphany to me- AHA!  With Tara's head practically on his shoulder and his hero making that remark, I felt that sub consciously his mind was made up.

[PatH]

  I found it hard to understand why he gave in to that bullying Haji from a neighboring village, who came trying to tell them what they could and could not do in their own village, and demanding
a bribe of their precious rams.  I suppose Haji Ali felt a fight between his people and the crew of toughs bearing clubs could only end badly, but it really goes against the grain with me to give in to bullies. An example, no doubt, of when wisdom is better than pride.

Haji Mehdi sounds like the equivalent of the local Mafia boss.  I imagine that Haji Ali knew perfectly that Mehdi had the power to enforce his demands.It's really frustrating, though.

[pedln]

I wondered about that too, Babi and Pat, and I think Pat’s assessment is probably correct.  From what I understand, Askole is also probably a bigger town than Korphe, and that may be why this thug thinks he’s the more powerful person.  It sounds like he and his henchmen have managed to control all the small villages in the Braldu River valley.  And now, of course, the bridge has made it easier for these people to up their demands.

I wondered if these demands had been made for years.  Did the porters like Mouzafer have to pay a percentage of their earnings.  We're learning, but what little we know of the life of these people.  Hard, hard, hard.

Askole or Askoly is a small town located in the Braldu Valley in the most remote region of Karakoram mountains in Northern Areas, Pakistan. It is the last settlement before the wilderness of the Karakoram. Askole is the gateway to four of the world's fourteen highest peaks known as Eight-thousanders (above 8,000m). Askole is located at 35°41′N 75°49'E.[1]
Expeditions to the following peaks are launched from Askole:
•   K2, 2nd highest of the world at 8611m
•   Gasherbrum I, 11th highest of the world at 8,080m.
•   Broad Peak, 12th highest of the world at 8,047m.
•   Gasherbrum II, 13th highest of the world at 8,035m.

(Wikipedia)

I was hoping to find a picture of the town, but no luck.  I guess most of the trekkers with cameras want only the mountain scenery, but this is near Askole.

Near Askole

[Persian]

A suggestion (in the style of Hajii Ali).  Think of him giving his topi to Haji Mehdi in the Afghan cultural manner - "I surrender to your wisdom," while thinking to himself ". . . at the moment)."  Which means - again in the Afghan manner - that "at the moment" is the key.  He could just as easily have bestowed his topi as a gesture (which was expected of him by Mehdi) and then whirled around and slit Haji Mehdi's throat on the spot.  The latter would also have been a recognized part of Afghan culture, meaning that a disgraceful demand had been put forth and accepted by Haji Ali (at the moment), but now the disgrace has been avenged.

Although GM writes of the hospitality and wonderful care he received, there is also the more horrific cultural behavior among many clans throughout the region.  And the papragraph above is only ONE example of very common and acceptable behavior when a Leader (especially one held in great respect by his clansmen) has been disgraced - thus meaning that his entire clan and often the entire tribe has also been insulted.

Three Cups of Tea is a wonderful look at a region of the world and some of the people who live there, but that region is overall extremely harsh in many ways, which is not to say that we cannot learn, understand and appreciate the positive aspects of GM's initial experiences.  He met wonderful people with whom he has developed a loving/respectful relationship and shared that with his own family.  That's what I really enjoy, while keeping in mind the reality of the region and its customs.

Mahlia

[Babi]

  Good point, Mahlia. We have read so much of the kindliness and hospitality of the Balti, it is easy to forget the harsh side of their culture. Where survival is so
'close-to-the-bone', it would be foolish of not to expect that kind of toughness.

  Now to consider a few shortcomings of our own. Mortenson points out that
"Our leaders thought their 'shock and awe' campaign could end the war in Iraq before it even started."  We've got our own brand of bullying, haven't we? Not as smart as we thought we were, either.
  I keep learning. I did not realize that the Taliban that invaded Afghanistan were primarily teenagers, fresh from the madrassas. When I think of teenagers, I think energy, idealism, ardor...and poor judgment.  I am also learning more and more of the responsibility of European and Western powers for the mess in the Middle East. "...the region..was... bands of tribal powers, shunted into states created arbitrarily by Europeans, states that took little account of each tribe's primal alliance to it's own people."
  We do seem to have an historical tendency to jump in, make a quick fix that suits our own priorities, and head back home ASAP.

[Persian]

BABI - Excellent point!  The more I read and refresh my own memories about the cultural tribal and clan customs of Central Asia, the more I think back to the devastation of the Native American tribes in the 18th and 19th centuries by Europeans,  Americans and some renegade Native Americans.  I've been watching the superb PBS programs featuring the segments on the original Cherokee Nation in the Carolinas, many of whose members were forced to relocate to the Western USA (an unknown area to them at the time).  I recall my deep interest in the Apache Chief Cochise, who was featured, along with Geronimo and others in one of the recent PBS segments.

What we have witnessed in recent years in Central Asia (especially among the ultra traditional residents, their clan and tribal elders) is so reminiscent of the battles fought with the Native Americans to usurp their lands and force their people into a European/American way of life totally alien to them.  I've talked about this topic many times with former colleagues in Washington - several of whom are Native Americans and two of whom are highly respected elders in their tribes.  Several REALLY interesting conversations I recall included these two elders AND several Afghans, who lived and worked in Washington DC.

Historically, the insistence of one culture and its people (i.e. Americans and European allies in this case) that another extremely different group (Central Asians) accept their customs at face value is continuous throughout history.  (Think of the Greeks and Romans; the Persians and Medes; the Mongols bursting out of Asia.)  There simply are regions of the world which are NOT prepared to understand, accept and change their lifestyles and ancient customs according to contemporary Western beliefs.  Yet that insistence is NOT always directed towards people extremely different from Western cultural norms.  Here I think of the Nazi insistence in Europe; and the KKK in the USA.

In GM's situation, where he took the time and patience to understand the local community AND offered his help to build a school - simple idea,  yet enormously helpful to the locals - is a clear example of "one step at a time," which often is successful, where force is not.

Another recent manifestation of the tremendously harsh side of the Taliban towards females and their absolute insistence that villagers cease and desist from interacting with Westerners (even when they offer assistance, food, education, school supplies, medical treatment and supplies) is the recent news reports about several small schools whose female students have been poisoned over the past several weeks.  I've read two articles recently, explaining that the youngsters (all of whom were students in local schools built for them by "foreigners") had suffered various stages of poisoning.  In one article, the attack was thought to be the result of wide-spread spraying by Taliban of the school building and surrounding grounds where the school was located.  The other article mentioned "direct spraying" of poisonous gas into small classrooms, resulting in groups of female youngsters becoming violently ill within minutes and needing hospitalization. 

Mahlia

[PatH]

Wow!  Poisoning schoolchildren is about as low as you can get.

[ALF43]

Our next chapter starting tomorrow opens up the conversation regarding the Taliban, one of the mujahiddeen (holy warriors or "freedom fighters" ) groups that formed during the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (1979-89.) 

They present themselves as a reform movement and have been criticized by Islamic scholars as being poorly educated in Islamic law and history—even in Islamic radicalism, which has a long history of scholarly writing and debate. Their implementation of Islamic law seems to be a combination of Wahhabi orthodoxy (i.e., banning of musical instruments) and tribal custom (i.e., the all-covering birka made mandatory for all Afghan women).

While Mortenson was in neighboring Peshaway  check it out
 Bin Laden led the movement against the US.


 

When the Taliban took Kabul, they immediately forbade girls to go to school. Moreover, women were barred from working outside the home, precipitating a crisis in healthcare and education. Women were also prohibited from leaving their home without a male relative—those that did so risked being beaten, even shot, by officers of the "ministry for the protection of virtue and prevention of vice." A woman caught wearing fingernail polish may have had her fingertips chopped off. All this, according to the Taliban, was to safeguard women and their honor.

from infoplease.com

 I am interested in this particular aspect of the Taliban.  Why in contrast to their strict beliefs, the Taliban profited from smuggling operations (primarily electronics) and opium cultivation. Eventually, they bowed to international pressure and cracked down on cultivation and by July 2000 were able to claim that they had cut world opium production by two-thirds. Unfortunately, the crackdown on opium also abruptly deprived thousands of Afghans of their only source of income.

Also, I was surprised to learn that most of the Taliban leaders were educated and trained in Pakistan

[PatH]

JoanK asked me to tell you that her computer is totally nonfunctional, so you won't see her until she can find out what's wrong.

[PatH]

One somewhat remarkable part of Mortenson's life is that he and Tara Bishop found each other.  They are so perfectly suited, and it's so unlikely for them to meet.  Just as his life prepared him for this work, her life prepared her to be enthusiastic about it and tolerate the sacrifices involved.  Not many people could take that sort of life.  I'm glad to get an update on their family life from that interesting Good Housekeeping article.

[PatH]

I'm off to Pasadena tomorrow morning.  I'll have 6 hours on the plane to read the next section.

[Babi]

  I wish I had known about the program on the Cherokees. I have some Cherokee ancestry, and have always been fascinated by all the native American cultures. I can well imagine that some of their elders and the Afghans would find plenty to talk about.
  It's only natural, I suppose, for those who are currently predominant in the
world to feel that this means their culture, technology, form of government, etc., is superior. (Perhaps that is one reason I enjoy reading fantasy novels, where all that has changed. Dreamland.   )

 

Also, I was surprised to learn that most of the Taliban leaders were educated and trained in Pakistan

  They were educated in madrassas school, ALF, which teach this very
radical form of Islam. I don't know how much 'training' they got, but they
were surprisingly well armed. And as I said before, they were mostly teen-agers
with the terrifying combination of passionate enthusiasm and poor
judgment typical of that age. Putting that kind of power in their hands and
ideas in their minds created monsters.

  PAT, I hope Joan's computer is working soon, or you will both be 'cut off'.
Good luck to both of you.

[JoanK]

I'm back, at least temporarily. I was fascinated and appalled by the section where greg travels into Taliban country. An area that no one has ever succeeded in conquering: Alexander the Great told his army to simply avoid it. Is this the same "Swat Valley" where the Pakistan government is fighting the Taliban?

One thing stands out. When I look at discussions of Pakistan on the TV, they talk a lotabout the Pakistan government. But in Mortinsen's account, the government seems almost irrelevant: it is the tribal and religious leaders who count. I think we are trying to deal according to our Western notions of "Nation" in an area where this idea has limited meaning. We forget how long it took in the West for the idea of nation to supplant that of tribe.

[mabel1015j]

Wonderful posts, everybody! I'm enjoying lurking and learning, as always on SN/SL/S and Fs. What a fabulous gift these sites have been to us. Thank you to all of you who got them going and keep them going.

We're off to the Jersey Shore for 8 days, i'll have a lot of great catching up to do when i get back.................no  internet connection there.............jean