Author Topic: Palace Thief (The) by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online  (Read 70772 times)

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Palace Thief (The) by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« on: June 13, 2015, 11:58:19 AM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

July Book Club Online: July 7-31

The Palace Thief
by Ethan Canin






" I tell this story not for my own honor, for there is little of that here, and not as a warning, for a man of my calling learns quickly that all warnings are in vain..."


So begins the stunning novella of only 50 pages...the Palace Thief by Ethan Canin, M.D.,  which is the basis for the Kevin Kline movie shown above, The Emperor's Club. The book is a little different, however.

On July  7 we'll explore this novella first  and see if we can answer some of the questions its quiet prose brings up, some of them quite profound. We may, if there is any interest, continue with a viewing the movie and seeing the differences in the way the two stories are expressed, and which one appeals to us more,  and why.

 "The worth of a life is not determined by a single failure or a solitary success."---William Hundert

Do you agree or disagree? Why would he say this? Let's talk!  Do  join us and share your thoughts starting July 7th. Just to be clear: we are only going to talk about the 50 page novella in the book  called The Palace Thief, even tho the book itself is called the same thing.

---"There is a great deal to examine, exchange views on and bounce off one another in this Novella.

It will present noble, righteous and moral behavior as opposed to conniving machination and politics, much like we are all faced with in 2015.
"---Andrea

Interesting Links:

Annotations for The Palace Thief from  Chulalongkorn University   *Spoiler: At the bottom of this list of annotations is a set of questions and a link to an interview with the author about what he intended, so if you don't like to see that type of thing at the outset and would rather think for yourself, don't read down that far. We can decide later if he actually did achieve what he intended to show or if he didn't.


Discussion Leader: Ginny


ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 12:45:36 PM »
A warm welcome in this hot summer to what I hope will be a cool exciting adventure discussing The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin, a book which proves that you don't have to have to write 8,000 pages to say something profound.

We can read the title story (The Palace Thief) in all of its 50 pages  at one sitting, and let's do, before July 7, so we'll all be ready to discuss what it means.

I am so glad we are going to get to discuss this because I have had no end of questions about it, just the opening lines raise questions: " I tell this story not for my own honor, for there is little of that here, and not as a warning, for a man of my calling learns quickly that all warnings are in vain..."

Now there's an opening to pull you in! What calling, what honor? Where is "here?" I can't understand why we've never discussed it before! And it's chock full of quotations that deserve a second look, like this one: "The worth of a life is not determined by a single failure or a solitary success."---William Hunderdt

Do you agree with that? Why would anybody say that?

Then there's the movie The Emperor's Club  with Kevin Kline which was based on this novella,  also wonderful,  but different. Subtly different. I'm just noticing how different. But what will YOU notice?

I'm really looking forward to this, as I have wanted to talk about this book for a long time, and I don't get to do many book discussions, which I have missed.

We need a quorum to offer it, so  if you're interested, please sign in.

Everyone is welcome!



PatH

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 03:16:18 PM »
I'm in.

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 04:40:23 PM »
Oh, Pat!! Wonderful!!!

I had been out grocery shopping in this  97 degree heat which I  have not been used to for these last few weeks, and staggered in with the bundles wheezing like an old horse to see your name, whoopeee!!

Now that just makes my day!!!  Let me see, which would I rather do, haul heavy groceries in boiling heat or talk books...Gee that's a hard one. hahahaa

Welcome!




Frybabe

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 05:33:07 PM »
Okay, count me in. The library has only one book, so I hope it isn't out when I want it.

Nice to have you back, Ginny.

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 06:28:01 PM »
Oh Frybabe, wonderful! So glad to have you!

Thank you, I am glad to be back, except for the heat.

Well, now,  this is exciting!

Welcome, All!

pedln

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2015, 11:54:07 PM »
I'm in too.  I watched The Emperor's Club last week -- glad my library had a copy, as Amazon is our of them right now.  Ginny mentions subtle differences between it and the story, so I'm sure I'l be watching it again after reading.  It was interesting to see a younger Jesse Eisenberg playing the part of one of the boys.

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2015, 07:48:18 AM »
Oh Pedln, super!! I like looking in here it's like Christmas morning! hahaha

I missed Jesse Eisenberg  in that, I will have to go back and watch that again, and there's another one, too, a young Emile Hirsch.   I will want to re-watch it  once we get through discussing it, because I am interested to see if the clever  minds here see what I did this time or if, perhaps, I am off the wall and totally wrong.   I also have a DVD copy  here I can lend which I was sent earlier this year, it's a good movie, I think, but it's different.

SO glad to see you! Welcome!

I tried to find a copy of the novella online but so far I haven't been able to do that. What I  DID find, however,  was a sort of annotated page  explaining some of the references which I think I'll put up in the heading so anybody scratching their heads over Shutruk-Nahhunte can find a quick reference.  (Be honest, when you first saw that you thought it was  made up, right? I certainly never studied HIM in school, I know that.)

That page is from somebody at the  Chulalongkorn University. Boy does that ring bells with me, do any of you remember where we've seen that name before?

Anyway, here's the link and I'll also put it in the heading: *Spoiler: At the bottom of this list of annotations is a set of questions and a link to an interview with the author about what he intended, so if you don't like to see that type of thing at the outset and would rather think for yourself, don't read down that far).

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~tpuckpan/Canin,%20Ethan-thepalacethief.html

Unfortunately they don't ask the one overriding question I have. Or answer it. :) I had no idea this thing was required reading in so many institutions!!!  Unfortunately for them they don't have our readership and this is a novel which depends on age, I think, for perspective. Or so I think.

Just in reading it over for this post I was thinking Ozymandias and behold, that's in the next line of the book!   This is very subtly written, very carefully done. I think that I have written more here than he did in the first chapter. hahahaa

I am SO glad to have this chance to talk about this book with you all,  because with the wealth of accumulated knowledge and life experiences here we will all probably have different takes on it: we'll each  see something different and we  can't help but emerge enlightened, whether or not we agree with each other.

Deems (the late Mary Howland who taught English at the Naval Academy and one of our former members) and I used to argue over themes. Not yet, ginny, she'd say, not yet...hahahaha Boy I wish she were here, because the themes are battling with me as I write this. All I see are themes at this point.

What fun!

Welcome, All!

 

pedln

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2015, 10:54:31 AM »
OZYMANDIAS  ?  Good grief, Ginny, what have you done?  Am I the only one who has never heard or seen that word before?  But parts of it have appeared throughout the ages in bits and pieces of pop culture.  Breaking Bad  !!    Mad Men  !!

As for Chulalongkorn University - founded by a prince who became king and wished to turn his country into a modern state.  I look forward to exploring that page after my Internet gets upgraded from 2 mbps to 60 mbps, hopefully by the end of the week.

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2015, 06:09:07 PM »
:)

This little quiet looking book is full of literary references, this should be a blast. We will really enjoy this. For my part I did NOT know that Ozymandias was mentioned on Mad Men, etc.

I may be wrong (and I usually am), but that Chulalongkorn, isn't that the same one mentioned in  The King and I?  

Frybabe

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2015, 09:01:21 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE

Now you mentioned it, I couldn't resist, Pedlin.

bellamarie

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2015, 11:16:44 PM »
Okay Ginny, you peaked my curiosity with "Ozymandias" I have never heard of this, so of course I had to google it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

Smith's poem[edit]
Shelley wrote the poem in competition with his friend Horace Smith, who published his sonnet a month after Shelley's in the same magazine.[7] It takes the same subject, tells the same story, and makes a similar moral point, but one related more directly to modernity, ending by imagining a hunter of the future looking in wonder on the ruins of an annihilated London. It was originally published under the same title as Shelley's verse; but in later collections Smith retitled it "On A Stupendous Leg of Granite, Discovered Standing by Itself in the Deserts of Egypt, with the Inscription Inserted Below".[8]

Comparison of the two poems[edit]

Shelley's "Ozymandias"

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."[4]

Smith's "Ozymandias"

In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:—
"I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone,
"The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
"The wonders of my hand."— The City's gone,—
Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.

We wonder,—and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

salan

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2015, 05:31:03 AM »
My copy from Amazon arrived yesterday.  I plan on being there for the discussion.
Sally

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2015, 07:54:10 AM »
Oh, how delightful to look  in this morning and see two new members joining us! Welcome, welcome,  Sally!

I am looking forward to your thoughts on this one!

Just to be clear for everyone, we are not discussing the entire book of  the same name, but only the 50 page novella called The Palace Thief.

Welcome, welcome also Bellamarie, and ditto on the thoughts.  And thank you for putting in two copies of the Ozymandias. I had never heard of the Smith version and I can see why, but the Shelley is splendid, isn't it? Thank you for putting it here. Already we've had two people who had never seen  it, that alone is worth the price of the book, it really is.

Frybabe, what an interesting take on the poem. At first I really did not like it, the over stagey narration and the sweep of...the buttes and the west, (where are the legs standing in the desert? The ancient ruins that time has erased? ) But then I began to see what they were doing with it, the symbolism, and I bet that's how it's used in all the modern mentions Pedln talked about. Thank you for that!

I love the images the poem evokes and what it means, or at least means to me. We might like to talk about it in the context of this story (why, for instance, is it mentioned so early in the book? Was that overkill with the Nahhunte?)... Since you've put it here, I probably want to put it in the heading later on, too.

I think we are really going to enjoy this one, and the very careful writing the author has done..... and to me, and perhaps me only, it has repercussions in every life, especially as we age,  not just the teaching profession although that, too, is what's talked about. There is a LOT being said here. And you all will probably see even more than I do.

But anyway, it's hard to wait for the 7th but that's what we need to do, so welcome, welcome, ALL!!

ALF43

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2015, 06:30:52 PM »
Well now- my interest is piqued. I have never heard of this book, have never seen the Emperor's Club, nor, like PEDLN, have I a clue what Ozymandis means.
So, with an open mind and open eyes, I will join you ladies for the discussion of the Palace Thief.
I love literary references and when Ginny mentioned Deems, well now---
 that was the icing on the cake.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2015, 07:45:20 PM »
And now we are three to  whom Ozymandias is new!  

That's so  tremendously exciting to me. Welcome, welcome, Andrea ( ALF) !!!

I'm so glad to see you here.

Yes, I actually think about Deems  quite a lot. We had some great discussions and fun arguments here.

I can't wait for the discussion to start to hear what you  have to say.   I  have wanted to discuss this one for a long long time.  

I can't think of a better group to do it with.  

And we can use  more. The more the merrier!

Welcome, All!




marjifay

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2015, 11:26:44 AM »
I'll be in.  Just got the book from the library and have started to read it.  I'll do my best to finish it and join the discussion.  (Not my usual type of book.)

Marj

"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2015, 12:41:27 PM »
Marj!! How wonderful to see you here! I look forward to your opinions!!

Remember, it's not the entire book we're doing it's just the last story also called The Palace Thief.  Only about 50 pages.

Well this is wonderful! Welcome!!

Welcome, All!


ALF43

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2015, 08:25:34 PM »
May I be ever so bold as to question WHY this book that has 4 short stories is called The Palace Thief and the last 50 pages of this book is the Palace Thief story?

I AM Confused to begin with when I picked up my copy this AM.
Welcome Marj. I'm so happy to see u are here with this one. I remember you always added so much to our discussions.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2015, 08:51:33 PM »
Alas still waiting on my book - with all our 'wet' the deliveries have been slowed - I know rain or sleet etc. but the streets have been raging rivers and nothing in that commitment to service talks about fording roaring waters. 

Just noticed Ethan Canin wrote two books with rivers in mind - Carry Me Across the Water and Blue River:D is our swollen landscape forshadowing reading this author  ;)

This is such a great group I cannot wait Alf and Marj - Sally and Pedln - Frybabe and bellamarie - PatH and of course our fearless leader Ginny - this will be wonderful...

Do not have Netflex and Amazon is not offering this Kevin Kline movie on instant video - just as well I can create my own mind-pictures of the characters.



“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2015, 09:31:49 PM »
Oh wonderful, welcome, Barbara! ISN'T this a great group! So glad to see you here!

I'm sorry you are having so much flooding and problems there, I just saw it on the news again.

The movie is different from the book, and I think it gives a different feeling about the characters. I originally saw the movie first and then read the book and to be honest, missed, I think, what the author was saying in the book. I had Kevin Kline in my head and the movie treatment.

Then when I just read the book again  recently I was surprised. Either I did not understand the movie or I did not pay attention to what the book was saying. At any rate to me the book said something else tho the plot is almost the same...almost.

 I can, if I can find my copy, mail the movie out to anybody who would like to see it.

Andrea, May I be ever so bold as to question WHY this book that has 4 short stories is called The Palace Thief and the last 50 pages of this book is the Palace Thief story?


That's a good question.   I don't know. :) Maybe we can find out in the course of the discussion.  Now that you ask, I am trying to remember if  I have ever seen this happen before, and I'm thinking I have, but I can't think of a title offhand. Surely  with so many intrepid researchers among us somebody will find the reason, but what a good question!  Perhaps it's common when one story seems to be more famous? Or takes precedent for some reason over the others. I have no idea!  And I'm excited to learn something I did not know coming in, thanks to you!

This is going to be a good one! There's still plenty of time to join us.

Everyone is welcome!


Frybabe

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2015, 06:25:43 AM »
I don't think it is uncommon to title a book of short stories or novellas after one of the stories of the same name. Some of the add "and other stories" in their title, but not all of them. Ray Bradbury has several including The Martian Chronicles. Other authors that had done this include Isaac Asimov, Neil Gaiman, Alice Munro, Jhumpa Lahiri, and Stephen King. I publishers have a lot of influence and/or the final say on book titles. What the author initially uses and what is actually printed are often different, not to mention the titles of the same book or sometimes printed under different titles in other countries.

bellamarie

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2015, 12:45:20 PM »
I just talked with the main library, and they will be sending the book to my library, so I will have it by Monday.  Looking forward to the discussion.

Barb, I really feel bad for the flooding in Texas, and the other states experiencing this overly wet weather.  We in Ohio have been getting some of your weather, and I for one and tired of it.  We are close to the end of June, and have had only one swim day with the grandkids in our pool.  The summer will be over before we know it.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ALF43

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2015, 02:56:44 PM »
   Oh my, this discussion is going to be a HOT AND HEAVY one, I am so excited for it to begin as I just read the first 20 pages and am chomping at the bit to get into a discussion.
 I love this site because our participants are never "right nor wrong" just true to themselves.  There is a great deal to examine, exchange views on and bounce off one another in this Novella.
It will present noble, righteous and moral behavior as opposed to conniving machination and politics, much like we are all faced with in 2015.

I've been reading and studying Ozymandias for over an hour and would love to discuss this sonnet itself. 
I am excited to renew some Roman history and get started.  We have a great group assembling and perhaps we will have more before we begin.

  I will be off line for a couple of days as we are heading up to NY for a grand daughter's high school graduation. We just returned from New Mexico for a grand son's graduation and at this rate I  should get a pilot's license soon. ;D
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

PatH

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2015, 10:24:06 PM »
My book came.

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2015, 09:19:29 AM »
Great, Pat!  And remember, Everybody, we want to be sure only to read the last story in the book, The Palace Thief.

Andrea, loved that post, just like the old days. Safe trip to see another grandchild graduate!! I hope you are racking up millions of frequent flyer miles. :)

What a good suggestion! I would very much like talk about Ozmandias at length, maybe as an addenda to this discussion, August seems to be free for a new book discussion. I was leaning towards Prufrock, (The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock), which I seem to be quoting  to myself these days...("do I dare to eat a peach?" ) Boy that one really resonates now like it didn't when I was 18. hahaaha It's summertime, we can just talk on if we'd like, I'm open to it. There are a lot of references in this thing.

 I have always loved Ozymandias. Inquiring minds want to know why he didn't choose IT for his classes  instead of Shutruk- Nahhunte. I am beginning to have  my own suspicions.

Thank you for that background on the titling of volumes of  short stories, Frybabe, I had forgotten the Asimov which whose I Robot I JUST reread and  should have remembered.

Bellamarie, I am glad your book is also going to be here.

I'll just quote Andrea again here:
 
Quote
There is a great deal to examine, exchange views on and bounce off one another in this Novella.
It will present noble, righteous and moral behavior as opposed to conniving machination and politics, much like we are all faced with in 2015.



My goodness what an interesting thing to say. I think I'll put that in the heading.  We're going to enjoy this one.

We have plenty of room at the table for more participants. In this book discussion there are  no right or wrong opinions.  We want to hear YOUR thoughts on the book. We're not seeking consensus nor some inside knowledge of what a critic thinks (tho those are always welcome as any other  opinion) nor what the author himself intended. We're interested in what it says to you on a variety of topics the author himself has raised. And the way he has raised them.

Really looking forward to it: everyone is welcome!

marjifay

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2015, 11:09:59 AM »
The Emperor's Club is available at Netflix.  I just ordered it.  I also ordered Shelley's Complete Poems to read Ozymandias of Egypt - had never heard if it.  But, then, I don't care for much poetry.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Halcyon

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2015, 02:55:36 PM »
I'm in.  I, too, had never heard of Ozymandias,  Thank you Bellamarie for the link.  This sounds intriguing and short!  Perfect for summer.  I ordered my book today and should have it by Tuesday.

Jonathan

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2015, 05:13:13 PM »
How much of London was left when you were there, Ginny? How sad to catch the poet's vision of 'the wilderness where London stood', with only howling wolves to be heard. How wonderful that London was there for Wordsworth when he wrote his sonnet on the view of beautiful London from the bridge...gosh, I've forgotten which bridge.

And don't you feel sorry for Ozymandias. He achieved so much and now...'nothing remains and level sands stretch far away.' It's not something one should teach at St. Benedict's, to the upcoming generation of movers and shakers, is it? It's better not to have heard of this guy's posthumous fate. Better to stick with the history of Roman emperors. Their memory is still fresh and alive.

Fantastic library service.  I've read the story and watched the movie. Great choice for discussion, Ginny. I've just remembered. It was 'The view from Westminster Bridge'.

ALF43

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2015, 05:49:39 PM »
I don't know Jonathan, about the teaching of Ozymandias being proper in the curriculum.
I say "go for it" and teach the young that no man is an island. I say acquaint them with the sad truth that no matter how great or small, you will fade in time. I don't wish to belabor this point but-- time is the controlling factor of life. How I would have loved to ponder that as a young lass instead of a "seasoned beauty."
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2015, 07:55:40 PM »
OH  WOW!! This just gets better and better every time I come in here!

Welcome, Everybody!

Welcome Halcyon, I had hoped you'd join us! And that's Four for Oxymandias being new, this is fabulous. Really, I mean if nobody gets anything out of the discussion but Ozymandias, it's worth it.

Welcome, Jonathan!!   London was booming when I was there,  absolutely loved it as always. Saw Jonathan Pryce at the Globe Theater  in the Merchant of Venice and he was spectacular and now I have a new Jonathan Pryce anecdote to tell, as well. hahahaa

 I really liked your statement after having read the book AND watched the movie that  it's a  "Great choice for discussion."

I had hoped so and am very pleased to see you agree. I hope you are joining us!! What a group! My goodness!

Marj, you're really getting IN it! Love it! Actually the entire poem of  Ozymandias was put here earlier by bellamarie. That's it. But there's a lot of background to it, too.  

That's an interesting statement, Andrea, and it suddenly made me realize something about the book itself I had never seen until this moment. THAT is one of the many reasons I so enjoy our book discussions here, sometimes we (I)  see  things as a result of our discussions that possibly we  (I) would  not have seen alone. I missed it completely and it's one of the most obvious things in the book. What else is in store, I wonder!! :)

Lots  of room for more to join! Everyone is welcome!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2015, 07:40:43 PM »
Tra La - book arrived - Would you believe more rain again today -

"The" poem - someone said they ordered or downloaded on their kindle the complete works of Shelley - I wonder if it was the Cambridge edition, edited by George Edward Woodberry... That is the edition I have and what I love about this copy is within the pages of poetry are excerpt about his life at the time the poems were written.

On page 356 is the Sonnet Ozymandias along with another sonnet from 1818 To The Nile that contains a similar message ( ;) starts off as if he were writing from Austin today)

Month after month the gathered rains descend
     Drenching you secret Æthiopian dells;
     And from the desert's ice-girt pinnacles,
     Where Frost and Heat in strange embraces blend
On Atlas, fields of moist snow half depend;
     Girt there with blasts and meteors, Tempest dwells
     By Nile's aërial urn, with rapid spells
     Urging those waters to their mighty end.
O'er Egypt's land of Memory floods are level,
     And they are thine, O Nile ! - and well thou knowest
     that soul-sustaining airs and blasts of evil,
And fruits and poisons, spring where're though flowest.
     Beware, O Man ! for knowledge must to thee
     Like the great flood to Egypt ever be.

* Girt - to surround, hem in.  -

Between these poems, both written in 1818 is a full page Bio of this time in Shelley's life

He was living his first year full time in Italy -  I Capuccini, in Este, near Venice, named for the Capuchin monastery that no longer stands there. He had recently married, (after the suicide death of his first wife) Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley daughter of, philosopher and feminist Mary Wollstonecraft who died 11 days after the birth of this daughter, Mary.

A vine-trellised walk, a pergola led to a summer house at the end of the garden which was his study, where he was writing long poems Prometheus and where he had finished Julian and Maddalo Nearby is the ancient castle Este where owls and bats "flitted forth at night, as the crescent moon sunk behind the black and heavy battlements." During the day he looked over the wide plain of Lombardy with the Apennines to the West.

This idyllic setting is marked by misfortune and sadness bordering on depression for Shelly. Their infant daughter suffers, they thought from the heat. She was also teething - so sick they became alarmed and headed for Venice (this is before Italy is a nation as we know it today) He forgets his passport and only by cajoling the soldier at Fusina are they finally permitted to enter Laguna - by the time they reach the Doctor the child is dead. They "return to Este to weep" - After a few weeks they head south for Rome and spend the winter in Naples. Shelly's suffers from ill-health and the Doctors regimen is more painful than his illness - he suffers through recurring period with "bursts of discontent and sadness. One looks back with unspeakable regret and gnawing remorse to such periods;" - Mary is full of remorse that she was not as attentive to soothing his feelings. He was in constant pain.

They lived in "utter solitude - and such is often not the nurse of cheerfulness; for then, at least with those who have been exposed to adversity, the mind broods over its sorrow too intently; while the society of the enlightened, the witty, and the wise, enables us to forget ourselves by making us the sharers of the thoughts of others, which is a portion of the philosophy of happiness... He sheltered himself against memory and reflection, in a book. But with one or two whom he loved, he gave way to wild and joyous spirits, or in more serious conversation expounded his opinions with vivacity and eloquence."

In the early pages of this book, you learn that Shelley, upon the suicide death of Harriet was denied by the courts custody rights and access to his children, whom he loved dearly, by the Westbrook's, the family of Harriet. Until recently there was much slander against Shelly published by the Westbroooks that is only now being sorted out - Harriet and he were separated however, they continued to see each other - during this time he met Mary who is 15 and he is 20 - later when Mary is 17 and he is 22 - after the death of Harriet they elope and secretly leave for France, then on to Switzerland before retuning to England penniless where Mary, pregnant has a premature baby that dies. During Shelley's young years lots happen that includes Harriet, father's debts, spending his estate, that is not enough to pay his father's debts, separation from his children, death of children, Mary's father disowning her - lots and lots of memory that while in Italy seems to plague him and that is expressed in his work. Both these sonnets, from the crucial year 1818, are about loss.  
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2015, 09:47:54 AM »
Thank you Barbara, that's quite an interesting background to Ozymandias and Shelley.

We can talk further about what the poem itself is about in the discussion when it starts, and what it's doing in the book.  I appreciate your putting the background here. I don't have that book.

Lots of room here at the table for more participants!  I think we're at a record for recent book discussions now, and I'm really looking forward to July 7th.

Everyone is welcome, pull up a chair and your opinions, too. :)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2015, 11:57:06 AM »
Here is a smiley  :) - my word for the day came in - I had not ever heard the word used however, the definition immediately reminded me of this book, a collection of artistic works by Ethan Canin.

florilegium
The Latin roots for this seldom-seen word mean "gathering of flowers." It refers to an anthology of songs, poems, or other short artistic works.

Not sure if the site will let you in but here it is and if you hit the word it should take you to where you can hit the megaphone and hear how to say the word. The gium is like jume as if June but with an m and the e preceding is like e in eagle.  

http://www.visualthesaurus.com/
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2015, 04:07:07 PM »
What a lovely word! :)

Cristalle

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2015, 06:53:11 PM »
Reading it now, was lucky to find it at the library.  It's large print, but that's ok. Actually my first large print book but enjoying it so far. Looking forward to sharing it with you all.

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2015, 07:30:28 PM »
Well, hello, Nancy, and welcome, welcome!

We are delighted to have you here, this is wonderful.  What a wonderful surprise!   I'm glad you could find it, and us, too.

And I'm really glad you persevered despite the large print so you could join us.I have read a couple of books also that I just could not get in any other format, and I  kind of enjoyed it.   I don't know why,  it kind of took me back when print looked big to me as a child.   It's really amazing, the connection people have to certain books or memories they invoke.

This is a wonderful group; it can't get better than this..... I can't wait for it to start.


As good as it is, we can always benefit from more opinions, so if anybody is reading this, and thinking well, I don't know.....get a copy of the book, pull up a chair,  and join us....I don't think you'll regret it.   I hope not anyway.

Everyone is welcome!



ALF43

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2015, 09:06:40 AM »
Welcome aboard Nancy. Be very careful, I warn you; this group is addictive!
I just returned to the fold, myself.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2015, 09:36:10 AM »
Wow - Nancy - welcome - looking forward to getting to know you - just wonderful that you found the discussion although it sounds like you and Ginny know each other - so glad to see you in this discussion.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: The Palace Thief by Ethan Canin ~ July Book Club Online
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2015, 01:39:37 PM »



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