Author Topic: Classics Forum  (Read 243163 times)

Gumtree

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2009, 11:27:51 AM »

Paestum, a complex of Greek Temples in  Southern Italy.

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Please share here news, clips, magazine or newspaper articles you find that would be of interest to those of us who love the classics world.





I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether it is the tomb or not. Intriguing....Love the bit about the cleft chin  :D  Thanks  for the link Ginny. So far, I've heard nothing further here.
Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2009, 11:18:36 AM »
Me either, but yesterday's Wall Street Journal here in the states has as its cover page for the Weekend Journal: The Next Age of Discovery: "As scholars race to digitize crumbling archives, they're unearthing new finds-- from lost gospels to an alternate 'Medea.'"

This is followed by the news that


Quote
This summer, a professor of computer science at the University of Kentucky plans to test 3-D X-ray scanning on two papyrus scrolls from Pompeii that were charred by volcanic ash in 79 A.D. Scholars have never before been able to read or even open the scrolls, which now sit in the French National Institute in Paris.

By taking high-resolution  digital images in 14 different light wavelengths, ranging from infrared to ultraviolet, Oxford scholars are reading bits of papyrus that were discovered in 1898 in an ancient garbage dump in central Egypt.  So far, researchers have digitized about 80% of the collection of 500,000 fragments, dating from the 2nd century BC to the 8th century AD. The texts include fragments of unknown works by famous authors of antiquity, lost gospels and early Islamic manuscripts.

Oh boy, what will they find of Roman Egypt in those records? Maybe where Cleopatra and Antony are buried?

It also says: Recent Breakthroughs: 


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Digitization projects are also bringing previously unknown manuscripts to light- and to the Web, where scholars and curious internet surfers alike can look at high-resolution digital images of new discoveries from the ancient  world.
 

Wow! Just imagine what they will discover in the yet unexcavated parts of Pompeii,  not to mention Stabiae, and thanks to the new technology, we also may be ready to peer on something never seen for more than 2000 years! WOW!!

Just imagine!  Talk about au courant!  Talk about Indiana Jones!


Here's our chance to enjoy  the same experience vicariously!  Pack your pith helmet and shovel,  and come on down to 
    The  Night Villa Discussion, we're off on a high virtual  adventure, which is making news today!

Everyone is welcome!





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Maryemm

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2009, 09:45:04 AM »
Interesting newspaper snippet.

Grace is said before formal dinners at Newnham College, Cambridge.
However the traditional version addressed thanks to Jesus Christ, our lord. This has now been replaced with a secular version.

"Pro cibo inter esurientes, pro comitate inter deselatos, pro pace inter bellantes, gratias agimus".
(For food in a hungry world, for companionship in a world of loneliness, for peace in an age of violence, we give thanks.)

Mary Beard, Fellow of Nenham College, has said that the "undergraduates' rewrite was a classical case of disguising a load of wellmeaning platitudes in some posh laguage, which was actually an insult to that dead language."

The College is non-denominational and, unlike other Cambridge colleges, has no chapel.

REPORT






DavidF

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2009, 02:26:28 PM »
Interesting newspaper snippet.

Grace is said before formal dinners at Newnham College, Cambridge.
However the traditional version addressed thanks to Jesus Christ, our lord. This has now been replaced with a secular version.

"Pro cibo inter esurientes, pro comitate inter deselatos, pro pace inter bellantes, gratias agimus".
(For food in a hungry world, for companionship in a world of loneliness, for peace in an age of violence, we give thanks.)

Mary Beard, Fellow of Nenham College, has said that the "undergraduates' rewrite was a classical case of disguising a load of wellmeaning platitudes in some posh laguage, which was actually an insult to that dead language."



An interesting story.  Although I personally like the older version better (i.e., "Benedic nobis Domine Deus et his donis quae de liberalitate tua sumpturi sumus per Jesum Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.), I don't quite understand why the students' newer version should be considered an "insult" to the use of Latin as Professor Beard indicates.  Does the only proper style for Latin usage by modern students of Latin have to be the classical style of Cicero or Ovid?  Ginny, would you care to comment on this story? 

David F.

DavidF

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2009, 09:26:47 PM »
Jane,

Thanks for the information about Ginny's fall and knee fracture.  I am very sorry to hear about it, and I hope that Ginny will have a quick and "uneventful" recovery. 

David

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2009, 11:33:32 AM »
Hello, David! How good to see you again, HOW did you find us?

What an interesting article, Maryemm, thank you for bringing it here. I am a great admirer of Dr. Beard.  This is quite interesting:


Quote
Mary Beard, Fellow of Nenham College, has said that the "undergraduates' rewrite was a classical case of disguising a load of well meaning platitudes in some posh language, which was actually an insult to that dead language."

Wow. I don't have a candle's watt to stand on against Mary Beard, she's the chandelier of Latin against my own often flickering candle. I do have some sympathy for her opinion of  well meaning platitudes in some posh language,  haha because it seems like any time anybody,  especially colleges want to posh (her words) something up, they turn to Latin. I myself along with a greater stellar Latin light was just asked to designate levels of giving in Latin terms. There's just something about Latin.

That said, we need to read her blog to find out what her reasoning really is.
 There's a bit more here: http://www.mercatornet.com/family_edge/


Quote
Brits attached to their traditions but without the faith that gave rise to many of them face some knotty problems -- like, whether to say Grace before (or after) meals. Some students at Newnham College, a women’s college at Cambridge University, have decided that they cannot stomach the Christian Grace said at the start of formal evening meals held once a week, so they have made up one of their own. Both versions are in classical Latin -- more or less.

The traditional version runs: “Benedic nobis Domine Deus et his donis quae de liberalitate tua sumpturi sumus per Jesum Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.” It will be familiar to Catholics in this or similar English versions: “Bless us O Lord and these thy gifts which of thy bounty we are about to receive, through Christ our Lord. Amen.” It was introduced into Newnham by a Catholic, Jocelyn Toynbee, an art historian and archaeologist who was made an honorary Fellow of the college in 1962.

“The debate got more complicated than this. Did the undergraduates want a secular grace or a multi-faith grace? If secular, then whom were they thanking in the new version? If it was simply a multi-faith version, then couldn't we just remove the "Jesum Christum" bit (presumably Jews and Muslims and almost every faith could tolerate a "deum omnipotentem"). After the meeting, we wondered if we shouldn't actually be thanking the cooks (or, to put it more crudely, those arguably exploited by us to bring us our nice food). But how would that go into Latin? 'Servi oppressi', suggested the Keeper of Antiquities at the Fitzwilliam. Hardly a tactful way of thanking the staff, piped up the bursar.”

hahaha, love it. We need to read her blog to find out more!

That said, it appears that (thanks to David's post here we can see the original) references to not only  has Domine Deus  been removed but also so has Jesum Christum Dominum nostrum. If that is correct the result of course, is as she says, secular, as it does not identify to whom we are giving thanks, so in that, she does have a point, (it is modern, as well as  secular).

If may be, and I would need to read more of her thoughts on this,  that like a  lot of Classicists she very much dislikes  "modern" Latin, and there is a LOT of "modern" Latin, out there, and I would expect particularly at Cambridge. I see her as holding up the bastion of the Real Thing.  Of course we won't find Cicero addressing the New Testament, either.  I am not sure why she refers to "undergraduates'," will have to research that article  more. I also dislike "modern Latin," because each ancient author has his own style if you will, and while I absolutely love the "platitudes" quoted here: (For food in a hungry world, for companionship in a world of loneliness, for peace in an age of violence, we give thanks.) I think they are beautiful, I do think that I understand her point, what little I've seen of it here.

One thing I do know is here those interested in Latin can learn that Deus has no Vocative in the singular, thus Deus Domine is correct! That's worthwhile in itself!


Yesterday's NY Times has a huge cover  Travel section on Roman France:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/travel/17romfrance.html 

Finding the Traces of the Romans in  Gaul. It's fabulous, do read it.

Thank you for these great comments and submissions!  Just what we hoped this discussion would be, let's try to find her blog on this subject.

DavidF

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2009, 04:26:40 PM »
Hi Ginny,

It's great to hear from you again, and I hope that you are recuperating well from your recent accident. I found SeniorLearn.org after a Google search, after first attempting unsuccessfully to find the Latin discussion group on the old Seniornet.   I believe Jane did send me a notice of the temporary switch over to a new senior Latin site sometime back, but with that email no longer in my possession, I had to do a bit of Google searching to finally locate where you are now. 

Thanks for your comments on Mary Beard's  article on the new Latin "Grace" at Newnham College.  I see what you mean about the confusion in the students' new version of the prayer at meals.  It's a prayer, I suppose, that could be recited by a Christian, Jew, Muslim, or even a secularist, with equal amounts of confusion as to whom or what is being addressed. 

I am happy to say that, after several stops and restarts, I am still with the LatinStudy list on the Internet.  Unfortunately I am no further than Chapter 8 of Wheelock at the moment, although I am enjoying it.  I'm also using the book "Thirty-Eight Latin Stories" by Groton and May to supplement my translation work, and have recently purchased the "Latin by Ovid" textbook by Norma Goldman and Jacob E. Nyenhuis.  Between the three books, I stay busy enough!

Hope your Latin courses are all going well!

Vale,    David


ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2009, 07:19:36 PM »
Congratulations on finding us at all, David, that's not easy, well done!

I am delighted you've continued your Latin study! Good for you! 8 chapters of Wheelock is super and a heck of a lot better than none, for sure! We have ...two I think.... classes using the 38 Stories this summer in summer session workshops,  and a LOT of our students employ Wheelock as a reference, and enjoy it too.

Funny, another student just mentioned the Latin via Ovid to me,  I've got it right here big handsome thing:  nymphs and bears,  let us know how you like it as a reader.

So glad to see you again!

ginny

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If You Can Read This Thank a Latin Teacher Dept. hahahaa
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2009, 06:38:16 PM »
I did find one of many of Mary Beard's many blogs on the subject: http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2009/05/christianity-banned-and-some-better-news.html

And she has given this super link to an article on why should college diplomas be in Latin? I had read almost the entire article (which is super) when I found that the elaborate script I had skipped over was, in fact, not a diploma from some college  at all but something every Latin student should be able to make out. So give it a shot, but don't put the answer  here, what fun!

(Also Mary Beard says her  new book on Pompeii has been "longlisted" for an award. Good for her.  I think it should have one, am enjoying it daily, it's good.)

Here's the article on Latin in Diplomas, don't skip like I did the illustration, it's not what you think, but can you read it? No spoilers here, let's let everybody have a go! :)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/opinion/15Francese.html?_r=2&emc=eta1


DavidF

  • Posts: 1
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2009, 10:43:30 AM »
ginny,

Yes, I was able to translate the diploma, and it's very clever.  I doubt that I would have attempted a translation if you had not suggested attention to it in advance.  It's Latin after all, and it must have some profound meaning.  No need to translate. 

My college diploma is of course in English (from the Univ. of Texas at Austin), but I probably have a rare college transcript in that the courses from my junior year were written on the transcript in Latin.  I studied philosophy during that year at the Catholic University of America, and no, I am not really that ancient!   :)

David 

catbrown

  • Posts: 152
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2009, 10:58:25 AM »
"Latin Via Ovid?" Is this the connection? A friend lends me the book and I mention it to Ginny and ask on the Latin List whether anyone else has an interest in working with it and it turns out that many people do have an interest and .... Am I correct David, that you're one of them?

And, the diploma translation is a hoot!

DavidF

  • Posts: 1
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2009, 11:57:00 AM »

Hi CatBrown,

You are right on.  That is how I got interested in the "Latin Via Ovid" book.  I saw the expression of interest in it on the Latin List, looked the book up on Amazon.com, and decided I had to have it. 

I will be following the discussion about the book on the Latin List, but I probably won't be joining the translation work on the schedule the group sets for itself, since my primary commitment is to finishing the Wheelock text first, and I am only on Chap. 8 so far with that book!

I am starting to develop an interest in Greek and Roman mythology, and I think that Ovid's "Metamorphoses" (the background text for study in Latin Via Ovid) is an excellent source for reading (either in English or Latin) about many of the classical, mythical stories of Greece and Rome.  I understand that Ovid is our only source for some of the mythical stories he relates in "Metamorphoses."   I also have heard that Ovid wrote a manual for the seduction of women ("Ars Amatoria"), but the authors of Latin Via Ovid wisely stuck to "Metamorphoses" to keep at least a PG-13 rating for their Latin text.

David

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2009, 10:50:43 AM »
Wonderful discussion here on the Latin Via Ovid and mythology! I am glad to see so much interest in the classics, and great minds run together: I've actually got another Metamorphoses in mind for the 201 next year,  but hold on to your seats!!! A spectacular stunning development worthy of any Indiana Jones movie  has just happened!


Photograph by Clay McLachlan, printed in the new  Smithsonian magazine, June 2009, and readable here on the internet at: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/Road-Warrior.html#

Where in the World Is This? Guess?

Did you guess Timgad? Spain? Africa?  Where do you think this IS?

Would you have said Gaul? Or rather southern France?!?

It's the Flavian Bridge on the Via Aurelia in Southern France! This article appearing in the just arrived Smithsonian Magazine for June 2009 contains some of the most exciting reading I have ever seen! Amazing!

Think one man and one not so young can't make a difference? Read on! Think that Indiana Jones is just a fairy tale? Read on!  You can probably get more out oif this one article (the Peutinger Table! The Ancient I-95 with 500 illustrations of rest stops noted and graded, even!  An "Amateur Archaeologist," (website in French: http://via-aurelia.net/) and his 9,000 mile quest!  A No Man's Land of Celts (the Gauls)  who cut off the heads of their enemies and attached them to their horse's harness!) Ancient ruins in danger of being forgotten!   What more could you want in reading!!!

Read Road Warrior at the link above, it's probably the best thing you'll read this summer. :)

Huzzah for this man! And for you and all those trying to keep the Classics alive!


Gumtree

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2009, 12:48:03 PM »
Ginny Thanks -  that article is just amazing. The guy's tenacity and dedication are way out there.  Have put the link on my favourites to read again at leisure...enjoyed the comment by someone called Ginny.  8)





Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

DavidF

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Classical Salutations and Closings in Ancient Roman Letters
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2009, 05:48:48 PM »
I found an interesting site on the Internet that I wanted to share.  The site describes the rules for classical salutations and closings in ancient Roman letters.   Greek salutations and closings are discussed as well, but you can easily ignore the Greek portions of each unit, unless you are also interested in the Greek.   The site can be found here:

     http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/OM/CSC.html

What I found interesting is how formal the ancient Roman structure was for greetings in personal letters.  In the salutation, the sender is designated in the third person, as usually evidenced by the verb ending (e.g., dicit).  The sender is shown in the nominative case, while the recipient of the letter is shown in the dative case.  In essence you have the sender (nominative case) sending greetings (salus) to his or her recipient(s) (dative case).  If a Roman named Marcus was penning a letter to his best friend Brutus, the opening greeting would look like this:

Marcus Bruto salutem plurimam dicit.  (Marcus sends (says) many greetings (or much greeting) to Brutus.)

There was usually a brief, common formula following the salutation that expressed a wish of good health.  An example, for instance, might look like this:  

     Si vales, bene est; ego valeo.    (If you are well, that is good; I’m well too.)

The closings for Roman letters could take a number of forms, but apparently very common were two often used examples:

Example 1:   Vale (sing.),  or Valete (plural)    (Meaning “be sound, vigorous, or healthy”; or meaning “fare well.”

Example 2:  Cura ut valeas (sing.), or Curate ut valeatis (plural)   (Meaning: “take care that you fare well.”)    The verbs in example 2 are in the subjunctive mood, something I haven’t gotten to in my Latin grammar study yet.

With these rules and examples in mind, here is my necessarily very brief letter to the members of the Classics Bulletin Board:

Davidus omnibus salutem plurimam dicit.  

Si valetis, bene est.  Quoque valeo.  

Nomen mihi est Davidus.  Sum discipulus linguae Latinae, in primo anno meo.  

Quid sunt nomenes vobis?  Estisne quoque discipuli aut discipulae linguae Latinae?  Quis est magister vester, aut magistra vestra?

Valete,    Davidus


P.S.:  Very definitely not the King’s Latin here, so I would be very open to any corrections or suggestions from Ginny or more advanced Latin students reading this.  

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2009, 04:41:53 PM »
Why David, what a great  website, love it, thank you for bringing it here.  I don't  know why my indicators did not show it as new, so sorry!

Your composition is excellent!! A few thoughts: The plural of nomen, a neuter, is nomina and you'd probably want vestra (your) to agree with it. And you'd want the interrogative adjective quae to agree also:  Quae  sunt nomina vestra?

Good work!



 I came in to say that although we can't see any of the Latin classes here or activities in the public eye,  we're quite pleased to say that even tho our classes are out for the summer,  many of the students in our 104, 200, and 201 classes  are in the process of doing readings in self directed workshops here on the site  to keep their hand in. THAT'S exciting!  They are really translating well, too.

David, we also have a Latin conversation area where people, should they desire, can practice just as you have, so good work, I like seeing it in public also. :)



The new issue of Newsweek, June 10, 2009  has a super article on the  Elgin Marbles: Who Owns the  Elgin Marbles? It is quite an interesting article, apparently it's not correct to call them the Elgin Marbles any more.  

http://www.newsweek.com/id/200852  




We're also learning a great deal about details of the Villa of the Papyri and all kinds of interesting classical stuff  in our exciting discussion of a mystery  by  former Latin teacher and award winning author Carol Goodman: The Night Villa. We're half way through the discussion and Carol is very generous in her responses to our questions. It's  an Author Event here actually.  Select Discussion Index from the buttons in the heading to find it  if you like and join us all there.

Lots of interesting stuff going on in the world of classics and those who love it!  Join us here if you like!

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2009, 12:06:01 PM »
I only have to be away from this section for a couple of weeks to miss all these great posts! That will teach me.

David, we have a Lounge where you are very welcome to come along and meet us. We talk about everything, really, not just the Classics. It's a way of getting to know one another. Here is the URL:


LOUNGE

and we also have a section where we try/tried to correspond in Latin. I think we found that rather daunting!

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=143.new

.................

EXCITING FIND IN DORSET THIS WEEK



BURIAL PIT
                      

DavidF

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Classical Salutations and Closings
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2009, 11:46:22 AM »
Ginny,

Thanks for your corrections to my brief Latin script.  I had forgotten that "nomen" was a neuter noun, and I was trying to decline it as a masculine, third-declension noun instead, as you can tell.  Thanks also for the suggestion to use "quae" as the interrogative adjective.  I have seen the idiomatic statement "Nomen mihi est Paulus" used in Traupmann's book on conversational Latin to mean "My name is Paul."  I was trying to do a somewhat similar construction with the "idiomatic" use of vobis in my question about names (instead of using vestra as an accompanying personal adjective), but I wasn't entirely sure whether that was correct grammatical usage or not.

I would be happy to try out (from time to time) some additional conversational Latin attempts in this public forum if it is appropriate, although no one should expect any kind of lengthy correspondence from this beginner.  English to Latin is much harder work than Latin to English! 

David


DavidF

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2009, 11:52:58 AM »
Maryemm,

Thanks for providing me with the URL address for the Lounge.  I will definitely have to check it out. 

If your Latin group has attempted to engage in actual Latin conversation,  I can well understand why they found it be "daunting."  It definitely is not an easy skill to master!

David

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2009, 12:34:43 PM »
Latin is so HOT, isn't it? Love all the excitement about it.

For those of you interested in Archaeological Digs, here's a site with on the spot updates:  Sagalassos!

You may recall that Sagalassos is the spot where they found several colossal Roman statues last year, it's in  Turkey but this site is just so engaging, interesting,  and compelling, it's hard to tear yourself away from it.  AND  you can be on the spot when they find something else:

 http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/sagalassos/

Enjoy!

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2009, 12:15:34 PM »
Good heavens, I don't know how to describe this one! Pete in the UK alerted me to this new cloud formation, they are thinking of calling it Asperatus! Everything old is new again?


Quote
Asperatus clouds over Illinois, US. The Royal Meteorological Society would need more information about weather patterns that form so-called aspertus cloud to define it as distinct from undulatus clouds, which means wavelike in Latin

I don't know about you, but if #2 here or #7 ever appears in the sky here, I'm heading for the hills, they look like the end of time OR like somebody has been fooling around with a Paint Shop Pro image, aren't they SCARY?

Golly moses.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2009/jun/01/2?picture=348217740

pedln

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  • SE Missouri
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2009, 07:11:52 PM »
Did anyone see this article in today's USA Today.  The ruins of Pompeii are getting ruined -- due to exposure to everything -- weather, tourists, excavations, etc.  Also some interesting figures here and comments by Mary Beard.

Archaeologists race to show Pompeii daily life

Pete7268

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  • Hampshire UK
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2009, 11:25:39 AM »
The URL is an article by Mary Beard with advice on visiting Pompeii.  Her book, now out in paperback is a good read for those interested in Pompeii, she does mention that a fair amount of the site is being lost by weather erosion etc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/italy/5834953/Pompeii-guide-A-trip-back-to-AD-79.html

Susan

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2009, 04:53:52 PM »
Hi all,

The following article took prominence on the front page of today’s
Toronto Globe and Mail.  Thought you might enjoy it.

Susan Latin 104a

Cogito, ergo Latin 

INGRID PERITZ

MONTREAL — From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Tuesday, Sep. 15, 2009 03:26AM EDT
 

.For students of a dead language, the undergrads in Initiation to Latin are a remarkably lively bunch.

They chat animatedly at the start of class before grabbing pens and laptops and turning to the teacher's lesson on the ablative, nominative and genitive. These first-year University of Montreal students are a small but emerging breed that had been given up for extinct on Canadian campuses: Latin lovers.

The Latin language may be dead, but rigor mortis has yet to set in. The language of Julius Caesar is finding renewed life among members of the Twitter generation, who are helping shake off Latin's long association with tweedy scholars and soporific high-school classes.

As a result, Latin is enjoying a marked, if modest, revival.

Enrolment in college- and university-level Latin is up across the country, according to the Classical Association of Canada.

The University of Montreal's introductory Latin class was so popular last year that students had to be turned away, and this year, enrolment swelled to 60.

York University, which doubled its number of introductory Latin courses a few years ago, is starting a course next year to train high-school Latin teachers.

Educators say the ancient language is getting a boost from glamorous modern allies - Hollywood blockbusters such as Gladiator and Troy, and the popular HBO television series Rome. (That Angelina Jolie has a Latin tattoo below her navel doesn't hurt).

"Latin is a bit sexy now, after the movies and TV series," says Prof. Jonathan Edmondson, chairman of the history department at York University and president of the Classical Association of Canada. "It has shed its slightly fusty image. And there's an awareness now that there are different ways of presenting Latin that are more interesting than it used to be."

In fact, the students at the University of Montreal grew up without the memories of rote repetitions of amo, amas, amat. Latin has vanished from Quebec's high-school curriculum. Once a staple of the province's collèges classiques, the church-run schools that groomed the province's elite, Latin was jettisoned during educational reforms in the 1960s.

Today, it survives in a handful of schools, almost all of them private.

"Quebeckers have a love-hate relationship with Latin," said Prof. Patrick Baker, director of Laval University's Institute of Ancient Studies.

"Latin was associated with men walking around with Roman collars and black robes," Prof. Baker said. "It was the language of the church, and the people of Quebec turned their backs on the church." But by abandoning Latin, he said, "Quebeckers threw out the baby with the bathwater."

Educators say Latin offers not only a strong base for Romance languages like French, but also a key to Quebec's past. The first history of Canada, the Historia canadensis, was written in 1664 in Latin, as were seminal Jesuit texts.

"When we lost Latin, we lost a very powerful link with Quebec's roots," said Jean-François Cottier, a Latin professor at the University of Montreal who has received a federal research grant to study Quebec's Latin heritage. "It's a piece of Quebec's own memory. And if you forget your roots, it's very sad."

Ontario high schools have seen an increase in Latin enrolment, according to the classical association. Yet high schools in Quebec say parents are more interested in getting their children into Chinese or Spanish classes.

Patrick Letendre, who teaches the Initiation to Latin course at the University of Montreal, said some students tell him they enrolled because they never got to take the subject as teenagers. "They never had a chance to study it in high school, so they're catching up. They feel they missed out."

True, several of the students who filed into Mr. Letendre's class say their choice of Latin confounded their friends. But the students said Latin not only helps their language skills, it also helps them understand the foundations of Western civilization. And it adds a certain cachet to a résumé.

"Some people say it's useless," said Nicholas Goudreau, an anthropology and classical studies undergraduate. "But I find it fascinating. And I know it will help me."

So Latin may or may not be cool, per se, in the digital age. But as any smart Roman knew, it helps to have a good curriculum vitae.

******

NEW WORDS, OLD LANGUAGE

The Vatican publishes a Latin dictionary, the Lexicon recentis Latinitatis, that offers translations for words that weren't in circulation when Julius Caesar was around. Entries include:

Barman

tabernae potoriae minister

Blue jeans

bracae linteae caeruleae

Cigarette

fistula nicotiana

Computer

instrumentum computatorium

Gang

praedatoria manus

Gas

gasium

Karate

oppugnatio inermis Iaponica

Merlot

vinum rubrum Burdigalense

Miniskirt

tunicula minima

Pizza

placenta compressa

Skyscraper

caeliscalpium

Taxi

autocinetum meritorium

Terrorist

tromocrates

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2009, 05:47:52 PM »
Thank you so much Susan, Latin is hot right now, and we're proud to have such vibrant, enthusiastic classes studying it here on SeniorLearn.

catbrown

  • Posts: 152
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2009, 10:40:09 AM »
Mary Beard has review a new bio of Cicero in the London Review. As seems to always be the case, what she writes is fascinating:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n16/bear01_.html


Pete7268

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  • Hampshire UK
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2009, 08:53:06 AM »
Check out the following extract from the new edition of the Smithsonian Magazine.
An article on a walk along Hadrian's wall in the north of the UK.  There is a video link on the first page with views of the wall.


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/Trekking-Hadrians-Wall.html#

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2009, 01:45:42 PM »
Thank you Cathy. I was so excited to hear of another Cicero book by Everitt because his first one was just so great,  but it appears the article is  on a British edition of the first one..the cover is different. and for a moment, hope sprang up, however it's a book everybody needs to know about....and, as you say, she's always incredible.  I've gotten a positive fixation for her writing. Thank you!

Thank you Pete, that is something else! If I lived in the UK I'd dig up everything in my back yard.looking for Roman ruins.

I love Hadrian's Wall, can't wait to read that. I wonder if they still offer those week long courses in Hadrian's Wall, what a trip that would be.

I can say one thing from having visited Vindolanda and Housesteads, (forts along Hadrian's Wall), the British really know their Roman history, I was very impressed with not only the breadth of  knowledge but enthusiasm of the volunteers there.


Maryemm

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2009, 02:02:47 PM »


Incredible Anglo-Saxon gold hoard, (over 1500 pieces),  found in Staffordshire. 





Quote
This gold strip carries the Latin inscription: "Rise up O Lord, and may thy enemies be dispersed and those who hate thee be driven from thy face." It has two sources, the Book of Numbers or Psalm 67, taken from the Vulgate, the Bible used by the Saxons



ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2009, 02:14:25 PM »
Good heavens, what a treasure! Thank you, Mary!

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2009, 05:22:14 PM »
 Just seen this!! You MUST have a look!

 

http://www.piurl.com/1uJw

 

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2009, 03:49:11 PM »

...............and another one!

 http://www.piurl.com/1uQC




Computer -generated image of the amphitheatre

Pete7268

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  • Hampshire UK
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #72 on: October 02, 2009, 03:31:54 PM »
I put this in the lounge yesterday, just in case you missed it, here it is!!

Interesting Roman finds, today's BBC news item.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8283195.stm

Make sure you click on  the Portus Project link on the right hand side of the above item.

briscoe

  • Posts: 241
    • Bill Briscoe
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2009, 09:58:10 AM »

First link works - next two do not.

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2009, 10:11:28 AM »
I'm sorry, Briscoe, they're working for me?

 Thank you, Mary and Pete, love the photos, very exciting time to be studying Latin.

briscoe

  • Posts: 241
    • Bill Briscoe
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2009, 10:19:45 AM »

Ok, I get a page not found - I will try my other computer. Maybe it is my line...

And I agree with your comment - getting cack to latin after 50 years is great and different. Although I do missing the sound of 50 boys chanting case endings!

:)

Thanks - Bill

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2009, 10:31:58 AM »
Oh there's nothing like the sound of 50 male voices chanting Latin. hahaha I agree with you there. And there's nothing like Latin in mature years, either.    You'll have to recruit more male voices and go about the campus chanting together? hahaha

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2009, 10:53:44 AM »
Cicero: De Senectute: On Old Age:

And I have done the same, for in my old age I have learned Greek, which I seized upon as eagerly as if I had been desirous of satisfying a long-continued thirst, with the result that I have acquired first-hand the information which you see me using in this discussion by way of illustration. And when I read what Socrates had done in the case of the lyre, an instrument much cultivated by the ancients, I should have liked to do that too, if I could; but in literature I have certainly laboured hard.

ginny

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Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2009, 09:31:17 AM »
If you live in the States, and you get the History Channel International, here are three shows coming on this Wednesday, October 7,  which may be of interest:


8-9pm -- Rome: Rise and Fall of an Empire - The Dacian Wars
Despite the Empire's successes, the extensive military campaigns begin to take their toll on Rome's finances. When Dacian tribes ravage Roman lands, the unpopular Emperor Domitian is forced to raise taxes. He has never been on the front lines himself, but one of his generals, a young man named Trajan, soon proves to be a worthy leader while battling Germanic tribes on the Rhine. After Domitian's murder, Trajan is proclaimed emperor and sets out to rebuild the troubled Empire. He solves its financial problems by attacking the Dacian chieftain, Deceblas, uncovering his golden treasures, hidden in a river. In 106 AD, Deceblas flees, but Trajan's men hunt him down, only to find that he has killed himself to avoid the humiliation of defeat. Trajan's victory is immortalized in Trajan's Column in Rome, and under his reign, the Empire reaches its maximum extent of power.

9-10pm -- Rome: Rise and Fall of an Empire - Rebellion and Betrayal
It is 162AD. Marcus Aurelius inherits the empire at its peak. Peace and prosperity have reigned for a hundred years, and the imperial boundaries stretch from the Irish Sea to the sands of Syria. But the greater Rome grows, the bigger a target she becomes. War breaks out on two fronts -- in the east and in the north -- just as plague takes a terrible toll on the empire's population. Marcus Aurelius would rather stay home and write about philosophy, but duty dictates that he save the empire. His German wars are a prolonged, bloody quagmire that seems to stretch on without end. But with his death, his long dream of conquering the German lands is lost, when his son, Commodus, fails to pursue the mission, preferring the luxurious life in Rome to the dangerous life of a soldier.

10-11pm -- Rome: Rise and Fall of an Empire - Wrath of the Gods
In the beginning of the 3rd century, Rome is in crisis. Ravaged by civil war and foreign invasions it now faces an even greater challenge, the new religion of Christianity. When barbarian Goths attack the Empire's borders, and traitors rise against Emperor Philip, his trusted general Decius blames Philip's leniency toward the Christians. But Decius soon becomes a traitor, as well, as he faces Philip in battle, taking the crown for himself. As emperor, Decius sets out to win back the pagan gods favor, and his reign's first victims are the Christians. Yet, the wrath of the gods only continues as plague strikes, and the Goths launch full-scale invasions into the Empire. Decius and his son, Herennius, are forced to meet the Gothic king, Cniva, in a deadly clash that will mark the first time a Roman emperor is ever killed by a barbarian in battle. Unfortunately, for the Empire, it will not be the last.




This appears to be somewhat dramatized, and, as with all things Roman, you may need to take what's said here with a judicious grain of salt.  If you get a chance to see any of these, let us know how they were.



Mippy

  • Posts: 3100
Re: Classics Bulletin Board
« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2009, 09:28:05 AM »
Herb Stein wrote in 1998, upon rereading De Senectute by Cicero:

http://www.slate.com/id/9139

And here he thanks his Latin teacher...

http://www.slate.com/id/9139/sidebar/42879/
quot libros, quam breve tempus