Author Topic: Classics Forum  (Read 351015 times)

PatH

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1000 on: January 19, 2018, 08:51:08 PM »
That really is super.  Thanks, Frybabe.

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1001 on: January 27, 2018, 07:25:22 AM »
 Yes, I also enjoyed that, FryBabe. Thank you. Of course it led me on to watching other videos about Pompeii and Herculaneum.

The following is animated but explains the different volcanic "steps".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY_3ggKg0Bc

.....and Professor Mary Beard in the following video talks about Life and Death in a Roman Town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnIY6AE4m6E

I am re-reading her book "Pompeii" at the moment. Fascinating!

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1002 on: January 28, 2018, 06:30:33 AM »
I guess Amazing Places is spending time in Italy this month. Here is the latest posting of Rome and the Vatican. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfGZUoG1H2E This is the first time I've watched videos where there were a lot (and I mean a lot) of people swarming about. He includes a few shots of the inside of the Vatican Museum. He seems to like the obelisks. Some of the fountains and a minor garden space or two, and the lovely shots of the Victor Emmanuel building, including shots from the roof.

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1003 on: February 08, 2018, 12:23:30 PM »
Beautiful, FryBabe. I shall never visit , so thank you for directing me to that video.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1004 on: February 11, 2018, 05:59:43 PM »
Ursula le Guin, best known for her SciFi, or as she preferred, Speculative Fiction, wrote a book based on a character from the last six books of Virgil's Aeneid., called Lavinia (published in 2008). https://www.tor.com/2009/02/27/reimagining-virgil-ursula-le-guins-lavinia/  I've just started reading it, and after only five pages, I am hooked. Has anyone read it?

In her Afterword, Le Guin worried over the death of the Latin language. She mourned, ahead of this possibility, over the silencing of Virgil's voice with the advent of "the true death of his language".  She believed that no one could truly translate Virgil from the Latin without losing a lot in the translation. In her estimation, no one could "capture the magic", that his poetry is  "so profoundly musical, its beauty is so intrinsic to the sound and order of the words, that it is essentially untranslatable".


PatH

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1005 on: February 11, 2018, 07:58:33 PM »
I got it recently (it was the Abe Books book I fussed about) but haven't had time to start it yet.  If it looks appropriate, it might do for a book discussion.

The problem of poetry that doesn't translate well is frustrating.  The old Icelandic poetry has it too--it uses extremely clever puns and wordplay that can't be translated.  No, I don't know Old Norse/Icelandic, but I'm interested in the poetry and it's frustrating.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1006 on: February 12, 2018, 05:55:14 AM »
I heard that Beowulf is hard to translate as well. Also, several years ago I found an article about a group looking into Shakespeare's plays. It seems that because of changes in word usage/meaning/obsolescence over the years, modern versions have missed some of Shakespeare's humor.

PatH

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1007 on: February 12, 2018, 10:38:04 AM »
It's certainly true about Shakespeare.  There is a series, Shakespeare Without Tears, which is essentially dual language books, with the original on the left, and a modern English version on the right.  I read one recently; most of the time it isn't needed, but I found several dirty jokes that had totally escaped me before, and there were lots of places where it made the language clearer.

I'm a Beowulf fan, and have issues with some translations, but didn't realize that particular difficulty; my complaint is they try to pretty it up.  I was going to talk about it in the library after I finished spouting off about Moby-Dick, but conversation was lively about other things, and I didn't want to cut anything short.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1008 on: February 12, 2018, 11:10:44 AM »
I tried reading Beowulf in Old English, once, without ever taking a class in Old English manuscripts. Had to give up rather quickly. Maybe I am remembering wrong about the difficulty, or what I heard was from someone who had trouble with it, too.

It must be hard, the farther from the original, for translators to produce a work that is understandable to modern readers without losing things in translation, like they discovered with Shakespeare. I worry about Latin translations for the same reason. Some things don't translate directly, others are victims of word meaning changes (my favorite is egregious) or just plain obsolescence. Sometimes, translating passages or words is a matter of just getting the gist of it and saying it in your own words. I can see where translations can diverge some having to do that. And if you've read a particular translation, could that color the way you think about the passage or book when you try to translate it yourself? In Latin, translating a word can and does depend on the context of the rest of the sentence or passage. You really have to be on your toes.  I never quite trust the accuracy of my translations, and on occasion, scratch my head at other translations.

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1009 on: February 14, 2018, 11:46:52 AM »
I gave up on Anglo Saxon because of lack of time. Maybe I should have another go!

In Welsh we have a word "hiraeth" which is not easy to translate. I suppose the nearest one can get to the meaning is to use the word "longing," but it still isn't quite right. Yet every Welsh...person....knows what it means!

PatH

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1010 on: February 14, 2018, 07:23:10 PM »
Hiraeth--Maryemm, that's a wonderful example of why I both love translating and am frustrated by it.  An outsider has to zero in on meaning as she gets more and more experienced with the language, and probably can never be sure she's gotten it quite right.

Frybabe and Maryemm, here's why you had trouble with Anglo Saxon Beowulf:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/21/AR2007112102353.html

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1011 on: February 20, 2018, 10:44:28 AM »
I saw the film on TV and wondered why Angelina Jolie was chosen to play Grendel's mother. Can't see the word "hag" applied to her.


PatH

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1012 on: February 20, 2018, 11:32:12 AM »
She was chosen because they totally ignored what the poem is really about and made the stupid movie they wanted to make.  Indeed, she's no hag--looks pretty good dressed in nothing but gold paint.

It was a dreadful movie, but in spite of all they could do, there were a few scenes in which they seem to have actually caught the spirit of the original, and you can imagine the movie they could have made.

The same is true of the movie Troy.  It wasn't very good, but occasionally the spirit of Homer leaks through and you get a good scene.

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1013 on: February 20, 2018, 03:31:30 PM »
A new production of "Troy" has just started on our TV. Helen has herself carried to Paris's ship in a large coffin-like chest. She is not "doomed by the Gods" to run away with her lover in this production : she chooses to do so to save her young daughter. Menelaus has offered her to Paris as a bride.

Have to say I did not take to the production but it is early days. Paris is reckless and, I thought, obnoxious.


Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1015 on: March 16, 2018, 03:51:26 PM »
Oh, my!That is exciting news MaryEmm. I hope we see more soon.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1016 on: March 17, 2018, 05:50:50 AM »
For those who are adventurous, here is Project Gutenberg's list of Latin Language texts. Not all are classical Latin; some are ecclesiastical or medieval texts. http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/languages/la

PatH

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1017 on: March 17, 2018, 11:30:04 PM »
Those mosaics look pretty fancy for a barracs.  I bet they're in the centurion's home.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1018 on: April 22, 2018, 07:34:03 PM »
Originally presented on  in 2013, this is a super look at Herculaneum. Very interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_wfTPdp3_k

I'm going to have to rewatch Mary Beard's program, which was released about the same time, to compare.

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1019 on: May 07, 2018, 10:48:06 AM »


          Hadrian's Wall: Roman cremation urns go on display for first time



Read all about it here at:


Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1020 on: May 07, 2018, 10:52:01 AM »

Hadrian's Wall finds suggest family life at Roman outpost


                                Infant's Feeding Bottle

Read all about it here at:


Tomereader1

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1021 on: May 19, 2018, 10:25:19 AM »
In case any of you visit "Atlas Obscura" there was this GIF Animation that is interesting.  I hope this copies here.

FROM OUR FRIENDS AT POPULAR MECHANICS
Ancient Animations
It can be hard to imagine what historical ruins looked like in their original forms, but GIFs can be powerful tools to explain their former glory.

READ MORE »
The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Tomereader1

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1022 on: May 19, 2018, 10:30:05 AM »
I think it didn't copy as I thought it would   Never can get the hang of transferring a "Link" to over here. anyway, it was the May 16th link   info@atlasobscura.com


FROM OUR FRIENDS AT POPULAR MECHANICS
Ancient Animations
It can be hard to imagine what historical ruins looked like in their original forms, but GIFs can be powerful tools to explain their former glory.

READ MORE »

The reading of a fine book is an uninterrupted dialogue in which the book speaks and our soul replies.


André Maurois

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1023 on: June 23, 2018, 07:01:59 AM »
Two more books that may be of interest which were published back in October of 2017.

The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic by Mike Duncan

The Fate of Rome: Climate, Disease, and the End of an Empire (The Princeton History of the Ancient World) by Kyle Harper. Harper's first book, Slavery in the Late Roman World, AD 275-425 won the James Henry Breasted Prize by the American Historical Association.

Has anyone read them?

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1024 on: July 02, 2018, 06:39:24 AM »
I watched several of these videos, including Pompeii. Altair 4 Multimedia is into historical reconstructions.

YouTube videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/altairquattro69/featured  If you click on Videos you will get a larger selection of videos to look at than what is featured on their main YouTube page.

Altair 4 Multimedia website: http://www.altair4.com/en/

Both are worth taking a look at. Enjoy.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1025 on: July 28, 2018, 05:11:12 PM »
I am now reading The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic by Mike Duncan. At Chapter 9, I am just past the Jugurthine Wars which I hadn't remembered a thing about except for the name.

The authors seems to take more to the side of the lower and business classes against the Republican aristocrats. I am more used to seeing the Gracchi's, their followers, and those who came after in their footsteps being the ones vilified as thugs, etc. Or at least, that is the impression I had. Now that I am much older, I can see and understand the frustrations of the lower classes and the whys of the civil rebellions against what appear to be a case of "the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer". You just know that something is going to explode eventually. The Roman version of election tampering included bribery, disruptions on voting day, and murder of candidates and/or their supporters.

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1026 on: August 28, 2018, 03:38:57 PM »
High status' Roman gold ring found in Somerset field


                                            Read all about it here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-45028623



Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1027 on: August 28, 2018, 03:46:29 PM »

Roman coins found in Yorkshire revealed after years of secrecy






                                        Read all about it here at:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/aug/26/silver-coins-detectorists-yorkshire-reveal-early-roman-settlement

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1028 on: October 18, 2018, 06:33:22 AM »
I've been watching a batch of Roman ruin videos on YouTube the last few days. I am curious to know if anyone has been to Jerash in Jordan or Merida in Spain. Jerash is listed by some as the world's largest Roman ruin site. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like much is very well preserved. Merida boasts the longest Roman built bridge that is still in use. The Merida site has a lot of interesting Roman ruins, including the hippodrome (not a lot of it left) which is also still in use.

Merida:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdAXnOKn85g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ZmFrOsGAM

Jerash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_7-XLVgA7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75L4v_CV0nM



Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1030 on: October 19, 2018, 12:00:47 PM »
My birthday, how about that!

ginny

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1031 on: October 19, 2018, 06:41:05 PM »

A very happy Belated Birthday to you,  Frybabe!   And many more!

Thank you, Maryemm, what a find! Thank you Frybabe for those great links!







Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1032 on: October 20, 2018, 10:52:36 AM »
A Very Happy Birthday, Frybabe, with lots more to come.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1033 on: October 21, 2018, 03:59:44 PM »
Thanks MaryEmm.

My sister just let me know about this, but she saw a clip on MSN. However, I chose to link the Daily Mail article of Oct. 9 instead.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6294375/Mysterious-Roman-villa-reveals-secrets.html

Maryemm

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1034 on: October 26, 2018, 10:36:07 AM »


Yes, I know about this as my nephew is one of the archaeologists involved in the site. He is supposed to be retired!!

I think I mentioned this discovery a few years ago.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dig-finds-romans-just-couldnt-1909898

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1035 on: February 11, 2019, 07:10:06 AM »

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1036 on: February 16, 2019, 09:39:59 AM »
I am a little excited about my current find. Right now, I am reading The Big Oyster by Mark Kurlansky which is about New York City and the oysters found around the Hudson Basin. You may ask what that has to do with things Classical. Kurlanksy, in Chapter Six, goes into oysters eaten and cultivated in ancient Rome. He talks about how a denarius was considered worth on oyster. He mentions that Emperor Vitellius, whose reign lasted all of eight months, eat huge quantities of oysters at a sitting and cited Apicius's recommendations for preparing and eating oysters and includes one of his recipes. My main interest, however, is what he says about one Sergius Orata, first century BC, who devised a method to construct and raise oysters in lakes around Naples. According to Pliny (I want to find the source material for this) Orata grew rich on his oysters and also on sea bream which he fed with oysters. His other fortune was made in the baths which he improved by inventing the pipe-heated floor system. I really have to look this guy up.

PS: There is some controversy over whether or not Orata actually invented the bath heating system (hypocaust). Kurlansky did not mention the controversy. Digging continues.

ginny

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1037 on: February 16, 2019, 12:49:34 PM »
How fascinating, Frybabe! You DO find the most interesting things in your reading! Thank you for sharing that.

PatH

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1038 on: February 17, 2019, 10:50:23 PM »
The hypocaust is a very nice heating system.  My house is heated that way--hot water flows through pipes buried in a cement floor.  It's a very even, comfortable heat, though slow-responding.  Of course I don't have to chop wood for it, or feed a fire;  the water is heated by gas.

Frybabe

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Re: Classics Forum
« Reply #1039 on: March 03, 2019, 04:22:24 PM »