Author Topic: Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~  (Read 39986 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #160 on: February 23, 2018, 11:37:17 PM »



JOIN US AS WE DISCUSS


A GENTLEMAN IN MOSCOW

BY AMOR TOWLES.



During February and March, we will be filling cold, gray days by reading A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles in the Senior Learn Book Club.  Our pre-discussion will begin on February 7.  Let's introduce ourselves, and then perhaps talk about what we know of the goings-on in Russia in the early 20th century and our impressions of the Russian people. Those of us who grew up in the 50s and 60s could share how we learned of the Russians and the feelings we had about all of this.  This will also be a place for questions about the discussion, the assigned reading schedule and about each other.  Let's save discussion of the text until February 12 when we begin the actual discussion.


                           Discussion Schedule for A Gentleman in Moscow

February 12     Book 1

February 21.    Book 2

February 28. Let's start on half of Book 3.  In my book that is around 248

March 7. 248 to the end of book 3

March 14. Book 4

March21 Book 5

March 28 End Discussion


The author's website www.amortowles.com is a wonderful place to get to know the Amor Towles. He has a lot of supplementary information about the book.  There is even a delightful video, which you will want to watch.



Discussion Leader:  MKaren
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #161 on: February 24, 2018, 12:02:52 AM »
"The Overcoat" (Russian: Шинель, translit. Shinel; sometimes translated as "The Cloak") is a short story by Ukrainian-born Russian author Nikolai Gogol, published in 1842. The story and its author have had great influence on Russian literature, as expressed in a quote attributed to Fyodor Dostoyevsky: "We all come out from Gogol's 'Overcoat'." The story has been adapted into a variety of stage and film interpretations.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-overcoat-by-nikolai-gogol-summary-analysis.html

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #162 on: February 24, 2018, 12:03:39 AM »
The Kalinkin Bridge
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #163 on: February 24, 2018, 12:08:33 AM »
Ah so... maybe the explanation for my night owl life style - "If they wander the halls of night, it is not from a grievance with or envy of the living. Rather, it is because they have no desire to see the living at all, Any ore than snakes hope to see gardeners, or foxes the hounds. They wander about at midnight because at that hour they can generally do so without being harried by the sound and fury of earthly emotions...a little peace and quiet." Yep, fits - the phone does not ring late at night and there is no feeling of obligation to do what others expect - tra la...  ;) freedom by subterfuge
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #164 on: February 24, 2018, 12:22:53 AM »
Ahhh yep, how often have you had to pickup your 'garments, (indulgences) one by one' - these late nights catch up with me and then there is a rush to resettle my routine and take care of the damage to my lack of sleep - oh dear and how many other indulgences do we have to gather and reclaim, indulgences that are like the clothing with which we cover ourselves as if covering who we are.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #165 on: February 24, 2018, 01:39:57 AM »
Anonymity 1924 is a very sad chapter.  The Count is coming to terms with time, life, changes, reality and how he is being left behind.  Sweet little Nina is now fourteen years old and has a new partner to experiment with.  The Count is no longer needed to entertain her.  The waiter is now the Bishop from below promoted, the wine is no longer known by any name other than simply red or white.  All that kept him busy, happy, and feeling self worth, is fading away and the new Russia is now taking form.  I wanted to cry a few tears as I read this chapter.  Our dashing, fun spirited Count has diminished before our eyes.  My heart is saddened for him.  This is difficult to read:

pg. 131  Dreams of invisibility are as old as folklore.  By means of some talisman or potion, or with the help of the gods themselves, the corporeal presence of the hero is rendered insubstantial, and for the duration of the spell he may wander among his fellow men unseen.

The Count is no longer seen as important, he is bumped into by passerbys, Nina does not have time for him any longer, the waiter is condescending to him with responding "Of course, of course."  Mishka has cancelled their dinner and gone off to St. Petersburg to be with Katherine, and then he finds out the wine no longer has labels possibly due to his correcting the Bishop who had worked downstairs and has now been promoted.  He can not quite grasp everything.

These paragraphs are heart gripping and so very poetic:

pg 144 Yes, a bottle of wine was the ultimate distillation of time and place; a poetic expression of individuality itself.  Yet here it was, cast back into the sea of anonymity, that realm of averages and unknowns.

And suddenly, the Count had his own  moment of lucidity.  Just as Mishka had come to understand the present as the natural by-product of the past, and could see with perfect clarity how it would shape the future, the Count now understood his place in the passage of time.


As we age, we are bound to find comfort from the notion that it takes generations for a way of life to fade.  We are familiar with the songs our grandparents favored, after all, even though we never danced to them ourselves.  At festive holidays, the recipes we pull from the drawer are routinely decades old, and in some cases even written in the hand of a relative long since dead.  And the objects in our homes?  The oriental coffee tables and well-worn desks that have been handed down from generations to generation?  Despite being "out of fashion," not only do they add beauty to our daily lives, they lend material credibility to our presumption that the pass of an era will be glacial.

But under certain circumstances, the Count finally acknowledged, this process can occur in the comparative blink of and eye.  Popular upheaval, political turmoil, industrial progress__any combination of these can cause the evolution of a society to leapfrog generations, sweeping aside aspects of the past that might otherwise have lingered for decades.  And this must be especially so, when those with newfound power are men who distrust any form of hesitation or nuance, and who prize self-assurance above all.

For years now, with a bit of a smile the Count had remarked that this or that was behind him__like his days of poetry or travel or romance.  But in so doing, he had never really believed it.  In his heart of hearts, he had imagined that, even if unattended to, these aspects of his were lingering somewhere on the periphery, waiting to be recalled.  But looking at the bottle in his hand, the Count was struck by the realization that, in fact, it was all behind him.  Because the Bolsheviks, who were so intent upon recasting the future from a mold of their own making, would not rest until every last vestige of his Russia had been uprooted, shattered or erased. 

He remembers the embossed seal on the bottle of wine in the cellar and picks it up:

pg 145  On the twenty-second of June 1926__ the tenth anniversary of Helena's death__Count Alexander Ilyich Rostov would drink to his sister's memory.  Then he would shed this mortal coil, once and for all.

These paragraphs really hit home for me.  My hubby and I are constantly saying how things have changed and there is nothing we can do about it.  Our grandchildren are growing up, going on with their teenage years, sports, friends and activities not needing or wanting to spend the sleepovers at Nonnie and Papa's house anymore.  We still have our Zak and Zoey who can't wait to come, but I measured their growth and it made my heart leap at how my sweet Zak is nearing my shoulders.  Like the Count, I reach back into my memories of the kids childhoods and the grandchildren's and I just want time to stand still.  We went to an organized meeting last night to oppose having a new jail built, just a mile or so from our neighborhood.  The room was standing room only, and as someone pointed out the youngest in the room may have been around forty-five years old.  I looked around, and sure enough, I being sixty-five years old was among the rest of the elderly willing to fight to keep this jail out of our area.  Where was the younger generation?  Why aren't they concerned that a jail in this area will bring down their property values, increase crime, and cause families to move out of our neighborhoods to the outskirts of our town.  Like the Count, I realized last night, the County is hell bent on putting this jail in our area so they can revitalize the downtown area with a "green" project, and they do not want the existing jail downtown to remain.  Times they are a changing, and there seems so little we can do to prevent it.  We will join forces with this organized group called NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) and pray the levy for funding this project is voted down in November.  In the meantime, we are looking at houses listed in the county our son just moved to last summer.  It's not my first choice, even though it is a beautiful little town, but we will consider it if the levy goes through.  I am relating far too closely with the Count, in this chapter.

 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #166 on: February 24, 2018, 01:59:55 AM »
Yes, Bellamarie I agree - it seems to me things move faster in the last couple of years compared to the preceding 15 years - the aggressive rudeness not only in social media but the national news has me turning off all but our local news - and now knowing that children cannot go beyond their front yard without an adult in their presence for their own safety in addition to not even being safe using the internet - it is mind boggling -

As to moving, you remind me of my own dilemma - I know everyone in this area and shopping is really convenient but, the town has so changed and the house is too big - I just do not know - moving is like starting in all over which the older we get the more difficult. We do not see things ahead but knowing now what I know, I wish I had made a move back in my early 70s - what is done is done so I've decided to make the best of each day.

Thank goodness I still do work - not as I did at one time but the big benefit is as I've aged all my close friends have died and so there is at least some familiar faces among the other Brokers. Attending a training session a couple of times a month keeps me abreast as compared to the Count who is really like someone 'housebound' without either TV or Social Media. It gives a new appreciation for casual meetings on the roof sharing coffee with a stranger.     
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #167 on: February 24, 2018, 02:30:30 AM »
After being bummed out reading the chapter Anonymity I saw this and thought, just what we needed... Although, our Count appears to be on to this bit of wisdom and he lost so much more than the changes in our lives. I almost thought he would jump and wondered as I read what would be the remaining book - thinking maybe a recount of history as a memoir or his affect on others and what they did with their lives - never imagined bees returning from the orchards of Novgorod

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Mkaren557

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #169 on: February 24, 2018, 08:36:53 AM »
     Barb, not only were you up all night, but what you shared with us about the book and about your life was do insightful and clear.  You are helping me to see why a book about a man under house arrest in Moscow has so  become a part of my life.  You really managed to pick up on the power of change and the loss it brings with it.  This world that he has crafted for himself as his lifw changed from that of a priviledged aristocrat to confinement in an attic space in this hotel.  Now that life seems to be filled with changes and more loss.  The wine cellar filled with naked bottles is such an image of Anonimity and such a metaphor for what is happening in the Russia that Rostov knew:  Helen gone, his estate gone, his titles irrelevant, Nina slipping away, Misha disappearing, the Bishop intruding on the joy he has foung in the restaurants.
     I remember standing in my driveway sobbing as my youngest son went off to college. I can say tht I really enjoyed this child as he grew up.  Oh he was stubborn, used poor judgement, and never picked up anything he put down. I would even miss those things, but he was a wonderful conversationalist. quick witted, and full of curiosity and ideas.  He really never came home again except on vacations.  He now lives in Palo Alto, CA with my two incredible granddaughters and we text often and have a great phonecall once a week.  He is 45 now and I still cry everytime he leaves. 
     Any thoughts about when we move on to the first half of book 3.  No hurry, whenever you qll feel ready.  Happy Saturday.

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #170 on: February 24, 2018, 10:14:40 AM »
Barb, I love the picture..... it sums it all up.  I am feeling very melancholy this morning after being up very late last night.  For some reason I just could not sleep and was up til the wee hours.  I awoke to find a very close and dear friend has deactivated her Facebook account, which means we will not be able to stay in touch as often.  She like myself, married right after high school graduation in 1970, we had our 45th class reunion and all reconnected. We began having once a month luncheons and posted on Facebook daily to stay up to date and share family pics, etc.  She just revealed she has been living with an alcoholic husband for years and doesn't think she can continue any longer.  He has checked himself into a rehab, but she does not have much faith it will work for him.  So, this morning, like the Count, I am struggling with life changes.

Barb, as a real estate broker's point of view, are we correct in feeling neighborhood house prices will decrease once a jail is built within a mile or two from our area?   Reading, you wish you would have made a change back in your 70's, makes me wonder if my hubby and I are resisting a move that in inevitable, and are only refusing to see it because we love our house, area and it is close to driving to my home town I grew up in.  Unlike the Count, I'm not contemplating jumping off a rooftop, but I surely feel like a "jump" of some kind is knocking on my door.

Karen, Oh how I relate to your longing for your son to be nearer with those beautiful grandchildren.  My daughter chose to move to Florida and met her hubby, and every time they come to visit in Ohio I cry like a baby, knowing it may be a while before we see each other again.  She too was a difficult child/teenager, but she is my only daughter.  My two sons are very close in proximity and they have all my grandchildren, so I can be thankful for that much for sure. 

Well, I need to go get ready for our family birthday celebration, so hopefully I will get out of this funky mood, and have some much needed joyful time with the family I do have nearby. 

Ya'll have a great Saturday!!
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #171 on: February 24, 2018, 01:35:39 PM »
Bellamarie it is going to do nothing to increase values - not only do you have the jail but now a constant flow of folks on visitors day so that quickie grocery and chain restaurants will open near by - and do not think zoning in place will save you - it is too easy to get zoning changed.

It is difficult to leave what is familiar and holds so many great memories - from where the light switch is when you wake in the morning to where the check-out counter is located in your favorite grocery. Oh and the garden you have planted and tended these many years - when you do not 'have to ' move it takes a lot of self-motivation - and where you do not want to be dependent on your children having nearby family is security - if you do move close to family please have an understanding and lay out your wishes because as we age with the best of intentions they try to take over and make decisions for you.

I have learned aging is full of pot holes - the first being get used to loss - friends die or move away - you probably will have cataracts done and your eyes are never the same - various joints especially your knees give out limiting things like gardening and together eyes and knees limit how well you can even see when vacuuming or washing down kitchen backsplashes etc.

You'll find that fewer and fewer group celebrations happen in your home and so the bigger pots and good dinner wear are seldom if ever used. The deal is to stay relevant - that is the challenge - as long as the Count could guide folks sharing his expertise regardless, heeling dogs or recommending wine, even exchanging memories he could stay relevant but when no one either needs you or life has so changed you have nothing to offer then, you become irrelevant which leads to a change in behavior - alone, all you have is yourself for company and so your body becomes a companion and you notice every twinge and creak assuming the worst. I notice this phenomenon with both my sisters - one is two and half years younger and the other 15 years younger - they each are alone and have only their home and hobbies - at least the one, just younger has someone come in once a week who just chats with her but, her church was closed by the dioceses and to go across town is too much and she has no other affiliation. My other sister chose a windswept section of the outer banks that is deserted except during summer with all the summer houses nearby - she too is isolated. Nice at 65 after years of work but not nice at 70 and beyond.

Many of us who live in a single family home would have a time of it moving into a Condo but may do make that move - I have one acquaintance (we were never close and she still believes she is superior...ah so) who moved into an assistant living arrangement where she had her own one bedroom apartment that when she turned 90 she moved to a one room apartment with community dining and nursing staff available and then if she becomes dependent she will move again where she can receive round the clock care - all these moves are within the complex owned and run by the Episcopalian Church.

We hear from Pat here on these pages and it appears she lives in an apartment in Portland - not sure her arrangement on the East Coast.

Ideally a 2 bedroom either house or townhouse but finding them is not easy - I would make sure you go into a one story - and purposefully look into a new lifestyle that becomes an adventure - the worksheets available from AARP are wonderful for sorting out what is important and what you enjoy and still want to accomplish - hmm AARP no longer has theworksheets - here is a substitute http://documents.routledge-interactive.s3.amazonaws.com/9780415624534/Cutting_Down-worksheets-final.pdf

Yep, I can remember when my grands filled a great part of my life but then, they experience their most intense time of establishing their adulthood when your losses start piling in - so yes, you do finally wake up, and realize we experience the steps of grief with all these losses - add to your life to make up for what is lost by being the one to determine your elder adventure just as the Count bounded up the stairs to his.

 I have seen the difference among many past clients and please, please think being relevant - I've been in groups where some elders can only talk about their past successes and experiences, where they are wanting to help the host and hostess' grands in friendship, and cannot see the parent of the child has a different idea for their guidance - it is painful to watch someone showing their 'need' to be relevant offering only their past achievements.

We must be involved - truly as passionately involved as we were about bringing joy to our grands - even if the passion is not there at first but it is something that makes a difference - also, as we age folks are more apt to make decisions for us - my suggestion is, find a new stage (home/house) where you can manage and stay as independent for as long as you are able, knowing with health losses and if you can no longer drive, which does happen, you are not isolated and UBER is within your budget - also, remember SS does not keep up nor do fixed pensions - there may be an increase use of meds taking a hunk - PLEASE DO NOT consider a reverse mortgage until you are in your mid 90s - your fine taking out loans using your house as collateral till you are 85 and then they want a co-signer. Most states have a plan that after age 65 you can allow your property tax to ride and they are paid when you either sell or die. But NO reverse mortgage - if interested I will outline why...

Your future passion - If it is bird watching where you look forward to either an annual trip or seasonal outing to spot birds or you establish a new garden where all the ideas you saved can be tried and you can keep up with the latest strain of a plant or you can bake and cook in new ways your garden produce or you start woodworking or playing an instrument or any number of part time jobs or volunteer jobs where you are needed - something where you can contribute and are not spending more and more of your age limiting energy trying to keep a home tidy.

Yes, it means fewer family meals but, a living room can have furniture pushed aside for a large table a couple of times a year till even that is no longer a part of your life. And a one car garage makes sense or panel off half as a workroom using a space heater.   

Your neighborhood is about to change - it will take time and large sections could remain for the most part the tree shaded quiet streets you know but, there will be parts that change to accommodate the traffic of folks to and from the prison - plus there will be those who will not want to live near a prison reducing the number of potential buyers therefore sold prices will slide.

However, I'd sell not just to leave this potential change but rather, think, I need to change to accommodate a new lifestyle for the two of us... and get to work this next Spring clearing out while reading ways to live a full life in your 70s, 80s and 90s. You probably have almost as many years as an elder as you had as parents of grown children from the time they graduated high school, their collage years, then as young adults and their children were the center of your life.   

Great example in our book as the Count decided what to take with him - great intro for us as we age...  :-*
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #172 on: February 24, 2018, 03:09:55 PM »
Wise words, Barb.  I especially like your remarks on staying relevant, also the Count's problem.  He was something that doesn't exist anymore.  Who or what is he now?  One thing that stays is his code of conduct, rules of behavior.  I'm sure he'll die a gentleman.  This makes a neat little cameo in his discussion with Anna Urbanova about the dogs, where his remarks about breeding and behavior refer to both dogs annd people.

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #173 on: February 24, 2018, 05:14:38 PM »
Barb
Quote
Oh and the garden you have planted and tended these many years - when you do not 'have to ' move it takes a lot of self-motivation - and where you do not want to be dependent on your children having nearby family is security - if you do move close to family please have an understanding and lay out your wishes because as we age with the best of intentions they try to take over and make decisions for you.

Thank your Barb, you have given me much to think about.  We will fight this jail, and pray the levy will not go through in November, but should it, I know we have a lot of decisions to make in the next year or so.  I was talking to my little nine year old grandson today because he saw the NO NEW JAIL signs around our area.  I told him we will wait to see if the levy passes to decide if we will move.  His first responses were, "But Nonnie, what about your beautiful flowers you have worked on all these years, and the birds you love to watch come in the back yard?"  I told him I could plant more flowers, and bring my bird feeders with me.  He replied, "Oh Nonnie I don't want you to move from your house, all of our memories are here."  Out of the mouths of babes..... I thought, oh dear Zak, you sound like the Count, needing to find his identity in his memories.  It's not going to be easy.

Yes, we must stay active and relevant, I'm wondering what the Count will do to find his purpose in life now that he realizes the changes, and the people who have gone on with their lives, leaving him alone.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Jonathan

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #174 on: February 24, 2018, 10:40:30 PM »
What a strange book. I'm struck by the impact the plight of this connoisseur of fine wining and dining has on his readers. By the empathy aroused and the inclination to self-discovery.

'I am relating far too closely with the Count.'

'The book has become a part of my life.'

'Aging
(like house arrest ?) is full of potholes.'

Count me among the NIMBYs, Bellamarie.

Sure, Karen, on to Book III. Eight years have passed!

Mkaren557

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #175 on: February 25, 2018, 08:36:09 AM »
Let's try this reading plan.

February 28. Let's start on half of Book 3.  In my book that is around 248

March 7. 248 to the end of book 3

March 14. Book 4

March21 Book 5

March 28 End Discussion


I find that as I get near the end of a book I read faster.  Let me know if we need to speed up.  I hope you all are haaving as much fun as I am.  Thank you.

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #176 on: February 25, 2018, 08:57:37 AM »
I am the opposite of you Karen, as we read on I am taking it slower, more time to react to what is happening, feeling the emotions, and letting it all sink in.  As Jonathan so poignantly pointed out,

Quote
I'm struck by the impact the plight of this connoisseur of fine wining and dining has on his readers. By the empathy aroused and the inclination to self-discovery.

I don't need to speed up, not sure of others, but I am savoring this book like a great cup of my favorite hazelnut coffee with creamer, on a lazy Sunday morning......


“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #177 on: February 25, 2018, 10:45:43 AM »
Karen the plan sounds good -

Today been thinking on how he got into this predicament and tracking again to see if he is actually reacting to this 'house arrest' as he reacted to his sister's humiliation and death because, if we couple as Jonathan did, House Arrest with Aging and the potholes with both, than we are living vicariously with the Count. We are watching how he handles his 'Aging/House Arrest' - We are vicariously trying out what works and what does not work, feeling how the Count experiences his confinement -

While the Count was on the roof and before the workman pulled him over to see the returned bees it felt like being a kid at the movie when the lead actor was in desperate trouble and we pulled our knees up with feet on the chair as if by protecting ourselves and closing our eyes or peeking out from hooded eyes we could stop what we were seeing or at least be ready for the blow to our gut we were expecting.

I think we are unconsciously asking, What am I going to learn here that will not only help me survive, but prosper?

I think we are affected by the human need to belong, not just a social need but a biological drive as in our need for food, air and water. And for some elders, it is as if they were Steve Jobs, alone in that garage of his, assembling every Apple product he ever made, then getting the word out by himself and when orders came in, hopping on a truck and delivering them himself. So we see as most painful the Count's limited human contacts, for one reason or another, pulling back or acting as his enemy. Ouch...

And so I think we are all on the edge or our seats as we see how he handles his confinement with no family or friends, among people with which he has little in common.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Mkaren557

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #178 on: February 25, 2018, 11:26:24 AM »
Bellamarie, I think I read faster to find out what happens and unlike you,. miss things.  Thank you for giving me permission to slow down.

In 2011, I sold most of my possessions, put my house on the market, mailed several boxes of things that I thought I wanted to keep by UPS, and moved my life from my hometown in Maine where I had lived and worked all my life to Sarasota, FL.  I now think I was running away from being alone thinking that I would be living in a condo, make new friends, and live in paradise for the rest of my days.  Reality:  It took three years of paying house payments AND rent to sell my house which put a huge dent in my savings. Even with my brother and his family two blocks away, I am more alone than before.  My back is causing me to think a second floor condo wasn't a great idea.  I would like to live near my son and his family but his wife objects strenuiously.  I am in Florida and they are in California.  I fill my days with books and study which sometimes does not fill my days.  I hate the Florida summer so i stay in air conditioning from April to October.  So much for my tale of woe, but sometimes I feel as if I am under house arrest trying to make the best of it.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #179 on: February 25, 2018, 12:34:52 PM »
Karen I feel for you - part of your story is mine however, the one thing I had to hold me together was the house and since everything in it was my choosing and my earnings payed for it, my home ended up being my one constant - the thing is family does not always come through - that is where we have a common thread - that rejection after the pain of divorce feels like a double whammy as if there is judgement.

Just making myself get out now that my friends have all died is not easy - 3 of them within weeks of each other 2 years ago - if I did not work I too would be such the recluse - this is probably my last year - I have one client I am currently working with and after she finds her home, she too is downsizing as a single aging mom who was divorced a few years ago, I will probably not keep my dues to the MLS although I will keep my license so I can do referrals - stopping membership to the MLS means no notifications on training events which for me were as much social as information gathering.

I have to attend a few Senior group something or other - or just a group that is trying to accomplish something - I have always done better joining a group and then after getting to know a few folks, we end up having a closer relationship - most of my friends that have passed I met 40 and 50 years ago when I was so active in Girl Scouting.

I was involved with a group concerned with the ecology and growth near the river but while an active Broker there is no way to be consistent with other interests and so they have coalesced and would not be easy for me to re-join - it is so hard to get to that first meeting with any new group and from past associations I know I need 3 meetings to finally get past my desire to stay home where it feels comfortable and safe - and so onward.

I too like you Karen have to remake my social contacts - I guess it is part of being a senior - no one does it for us - the natural groupings as Moms is no longer and for as many reasons as there are seniors, our long time friends are not part of our life - where I do have a monthly group studying the Tao they are all much younger - realizing it is a biological need and I have had an easier time by continuing to work, it is time for me too to step off into the world of making new friends - hmm I can see now that the Count's casual friend on the roof shares similar memories since they both grew up in the same place in Russia - wow the connection is the bees who also have a memory to have traveled so far to collect and make honey from the apple orchards.

hmm maybe that is an answer - there is a Gynecology Group that meets monthly at the library and they have other meetings in town - nothing dull is there Karen about aging...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #180 on: February 26, 2018, 12:42:31 AM »
What I'm reading in all your posts is allowing me to see so much more in the book. We're looking for help or advice, for one reason or other, in almost everything we read, aren't we? To amend our lives. To enhance our lives. Acquiring the hard-won experience of the Gentleman.

More of what I'm hearing from you:

'Nothing dull about aging',
or in coping with new circumstances.

'Sometimes I feel as if I am under house arrest trying to make the best of it.'

'I am savoring this book like a great cup of my favorite hazelnut  coffee with creamer on a lazy Sunday morning.'


Bellamarie, have you read what just the aroma of that early, first cup of coffee does for the Count: 'In that instant, darkness was separated from light,
the waters from the lands, and the heavens from the earth. The trees bore fruit and the woods rustled with the movement of birds and beasts and all manner of creeping things.'
jPage 171. Creation morning!

In other words, the world is created anew. That's the Count's way of mastering his circumstances. The author has many ways in which he lightens the mood of his story.

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #181 on: February 26, 2018, 02:16:36 AM »
Jonathan,
Quote
'In that instant, darkness was separated from light,
the waters from the lands, and the heavens from the earth. The trees bore fruit and the woods rustled with the movement of birds and beasts and all manner of creeping things.' jPage 171. Creation morning!

This is a bit eerie, considering I had not yet gotten to that page.  I finished the last page of Book Two late last night, got up with the grandkids this morning, and was off for the entire day today, so I was going to wait til Monday morning to begin Book Three.

Barb and Karen you both have given me much insight. Karen, my daughter lives in Port Richey, Fla., my sister lives in Palm Harbor, Fla., we have been down to visit them in the summer and you are right, no one goes outside they all are inside with the air conditioning.  I could never adapt to having to stay inside my house for months at the time.  Barb, I am so sorry to hear you lost three friends in such a short amount of time.  It's good you are finding new groups to join, to meet new people.   

Our Opposed Jail FB group has topped over 3,000 members, and growing! We also have 12,000 members signed up in opposing it in our county, which means the word is getting out.  I just may not have to worry about moving at this rate.

Okay, it's late and time for bed.  I could not fall asleep from so much excitement spending the entire week end with our two youngest grandkids Zak & Zoey.  We picked them up after school on Friday and returned them to their parents around 3:00 today.  My son and his wife were sick, so we were thrilled to have the kids, to give them a couple days to rest up.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #182 on: February 26, 2018, 11:49:59 AM »
Its a bright sunny day here in Toledo, Ohio and I can not tell you how much it brightens my entire mood when I see that sun shining in my living room window.

I am beginning Book Three this morning, but before I do, it would be remiss of me to not include the very ending of Book Two, especially for those who have not been able to get their book, but are following along. 

I found it interesting how the Count has let two different times of humiliating men have such an adverse effect on him. First, the lieutenant back in 1913 when he got drunk lost his money only for the Count to tear up his IOU, then laugh at him when he falls on the ice, later finding out the lieutenant purposefully began dating Helena only to hurt her, to get revenge on the Count, resulting in him killing the lieutenant.  Secondly, the Bishop who he humiliated when he worked below, with the Count correcting him on his lack of knowledge with wine, who later is promoted, then later treats the Count in a condescending way, and is the result of all the wine labels being removed, as a revenge on the Count. 

Makes you wonder just how long a person is willing to hold a grudge, and just how much we ourselves may wrongfully hurt a person's feelings causing them to be humiliated, and then we go on without another thought, until it may come back around to bite us square in the face.

So, at the end of Book Two the Count has decided his exile in the Metropol Hotel is his destiny, and now is going to end his life, . 

pg 164  As long as there have been men on earth, reflected the Count, there have been men in exile.  From primitive tribes to the most advanced societies, someone has occasionally been told by his fellow men to pack his bags, cross the border, and never set foot on his native soil again.  But perhaps this was to be expected.  After all, exile was the punishment that God meted out to Adam in the very first chapter of the human comedy; and that He meted out to Cain a few pages later.  Yes, exile was as old as mankind.  But the Russians were the first people to master the notion of sending a man into exile at home.

As early as the eighteenth century, the Tsars stopped kicking their enemies out of the country, opting instead to send them to Siberia.  Why?  Because they had determined that to exile a man from Russia as God had exiled Adam from Eden was insufficient as a punishment; for in another country, a man might immerse himself in his labors, build a house, raise a family.  That is, he might begin his life anew.

But when you exile a man into his own country, there is no beginning anew.  For the exile at home__whether he be sent to Siberia or subject to the Minus Six__the love for his country will not become vague or shrouded by the mists of time.  In fact, because we have evolved as a species to pay utmost attention to that which is just beyond our reach, these men are likely to dwell on the splendors of Moscow more than any Muscovite who is at liberty to enjoy them. 


He is all set to jump from the parapet into the street when he hears: 

pg 165 "Your Excellency!"  Abram shows the Count the bees have returned, but not just returned, pg 166 Rather than the flowering trees of central Moscow, the honey had a hint of a grassy riverbank...the trace of a summer breeze...a suggestion of a pergola...But most of all, there was the unmistakable essence of a thousand apple trees in bloom. 

So what was it about these bees traveling to Nizhny Novgorod, bringing pollen back to make the honey, that gave the Count a new look on life?
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #183 on: February 26, 2018, 02:15:10 PM »
Bellamarie:
Quote
So what was it about these bees traveling to Nizhny Novgorod, bringing pollen back to make the honey, that gave the Count a new look on life?
I presume it was the perfume of home.  We've already seen at least two scenes in which the Count reminisces fondly about his childhood: with the actress, and a previous conversation with Abram about Nizhny Novgorod, where they both grew up.  Now he's overwhelmed by the apple tree scent of the honey, and his memories, and the thought that the bees traveled so far to bring back the honey, and this breaks the spell of his melancholy self pity and reproach.

Mkaren557

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #184 on: February 26, 2018, 04:00:15 PM »
Great, Pat.  Maybe it also presents that these bees overcame the odds that he as well will return to Nizhny Novgorad.

Jonathan

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #185 on: February 26, 2018, 10:21:41 PM »
Bellamarie asks: 'So what was it about these bees traveling to Nizhny Novgorod, bringing pollen back to make the honey, that gave the Count a new look on life?'

A beautiful reply, Pat.

What a memory of childhood and home. He  can taste it in the honey. What a romantic character. What a happy conclusion to a moving scene. Just moments before, with his right foot on the parapet's edge, he speaks his last words: "Good-bye, my country.' Preceded by such charming thoughts as he prepares to take the 'plunge'. Thoughts of kopeks, teacups and pineapples. And then 'lets out a sigh' as he gives his attention to 'Abram, my friend...all these years, the bees must have been listening to us', talking about the apple orchards of Nizhny Novgorod.

Better still, within a page or two the Count finds a new heaven and a new earth in the aroma of a freshly brewed cup of coffee. One can't help liking this gentleman. Such wonderful tastes, both sensual and aesthetic.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #186 on: February 26, 2018, 11:16:20 PM »
Interesting also that in both times his perpetrator of humiliating pain took the very thing he loved the most - His sister humiliated,  his actions to avenge her honor and she dies while he is away. After he lost his freedom to enjoy walking past gardens, enjoying sweet pastries while eavesdropping on conversations and his other moments of freedom, he looses his freedom and then in his confinement his joy is planning his wine to accompany his choice of meal, so much that he can even make suggestions to other diners and that joy is removed -

Little by little he looses what made him who he is, till he was prepared to end it, not seeing any other joys left to him till the bees bring the taste, the nectar, the memory of his childhood home, the apple blossoms from the orchards in Novgorod. 

Is that it - when we are confined after having lost our freedom of movement, our ability to share our expertise, lovers and friends, both young and old are no longer in our lives is that it, we are our memories?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Jonathan

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #187 on: February 27, 2018, 11:47:44 AM »
Very moving when told in that way, Barb. Count Rostov exiled in the Metropol, with much of his time spent in the elegant restaurant, the Boyarsky or the grand dining room, the Piazza, or in the bar, the Shalyapin, 'an American-style watering hole. And the years just fly away. We are kept informed of the passing of time in bold, black numbers: 1922, 1923...1924...1926...1930. Can't you hear it being played: "As Time Goes By'?

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #188 on: February 27, 2018, 12:17:22 PM »
PatH.
Quote
Now he's overwhelmed by the apple tree scent of the honey, and his memories, and the thought that the bees traveled so far to bring back the honey, and this breaks the spell of his melancholy self pity and reproach.

Yes, I do believe he was caught up in a self pity spell.  He realizes HIS Russia, is no more.  He can't return to the apple orchards of Nizhny Novgorod, where he found so much joy, he can't leave the walls of the hotel, he can't choose his choice of wine, and lastly which I suppose really brings him to his knees, or shall I say thoughts of suicide, is he no longer feels he is important.  He has only his memories to remind him of who he was/is.  Then the bees pollinate the honey and show him his apple orchard is still there, and can be reached even miles away.  New found hope!

Jonathan reminds us: 
Quote
all these years, the bees must have been listening to us', talking about the apple orchards of Nizhny Novgorod.

At a time the Count feels no one no longer listens to what he has to say, the bees show they have been listening.

pg 166  The Count and the handyman both looked toward  the roof's edge where the bees, having traveled over a hundred miles and applied themselves in willing industry, now wheeled above the hives as pinpoints of blackness, like the inverse stars.

I think about this, and how when I am out in my backyard and see a bee land on my flowers I have taken years to grow, sucking the nectar from the flowers, to take back to pollinate a hive or other food sources, and it reminds me of how important it is for us to continue to provide the flowers for the bees to come to, in order for them to continue to exist.  Who would imagine, or even care much about a specie such as a bee?  Who would realize how important it is to have the bees exist?  The bees not only help provide food for us, but in this case, the bees provided new found hope for the Count, actually saving his life.

Pollinators transfer pollen and seeds from one flower to another, fertilizing the plant so it can grow and produce food. Cross-pollination helps at least 30 percent of the world's crops and 90 percent of our wild plants to thrive. Without bees to spread seeds, many plants—including food crops—would die off.

Every year I plant more perennials to attract the bees.  I took this picture last August. 


Feel free to resize it. 

Barb,
Quote
in both times his perpetrator of humiliating pain took the very thing he loved the most

So in essence, he, himself was responsible for the loss of the things he loved the most, and can not seem to deal with knowing this.  Funny how they say be careful of Karma.  I love the Count, but he was arrogant in thinking he could humiliate and mock others and find not consequences for his actions.  Can he become a different man, now that he has chosen not to leap off the parapet?
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #189 on: February 27, 2018, 12:30:02 PM »
Time goes by, but there are a lot of hours between breakfast and lunch, lunch and time to sit in the bar, then progress to a leisurely gourmet dinner with mystery wine accompaniment.  What does he do for a life of the mind?  People watching is interesting, but not enough.  He has been a writer, a poet, but he writes no more.  He's a man of ideas stuck in a static place.  I would go crazy.

And for that matter, how does he manage to metabolize those fancy meals and all that alcohol and not get fat, without much scope for exercise?  Prowling the halls and running up and down the stairs?

PatH

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #190 on: February 27, 2018, 12:33:15 PM »
Bellamarie, we were posting at the same time.  I wonder if the Count's inner life will take a different turn now.  (Haven't started section 3 yet.)

Good for you, encouraging the bees.  They're in trouble, need all the help they can get.

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #191 on: February 27, 2018, 01:05:14 PM »
Jonathan
Quote
And the years just fly away. We are kept informed of the passing of time in bold, black numbers: 1922, 1923...1924...1926...1930. Can't you hear it being played: "As Time Goes By'?
Enjoy!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2GlVN2Gn3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxMeu34o_jQ


“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #192 on: February 27, 2018, 02:26:30 PM »
Funny till you pointed it out Bellamarie, I guess so - Karma - and I never thought arrogant but that too - I saw his behavior as if sword play with jabs and thought of him acting as we would expect from a noble - in fact, I thought him not as aggressive as some men with the expectation of military service because of their station in life - for instance I could not see him acting as the pretend suitor for his sister or even being as mean spirited as 'the Bishop' rather, it is as if he were collecting coup's - but then I also see not so much Karma in our lives as acting within the boundaries of social expectation and that is at times used against us -

Thinking a bit more, hmmm if it is Karma that brings on painful happenings than we have to blame victims for their experiences - what I see is the Count is caught in a major system change - if the new government had been another monarchy, his approach to life would have been appropriate, he would continue to have the freedom and the obligations of a gentleman land owner - for sure he would not be under house arrest, surrounded by hotel staff - where as, this approach to bring everyone down-to and up-from into a shared sense of life without any discrimination, even between the wines, seems to bring about a rather gray world - knowing as we do, the wonderful Cathedrals were used to store hay, is more color drained, just as writers and poets were drained of their freedom to tap their creative imagination and were obligated to write to please the new system's hierarchy.

Reminds me of the Enneagram system that is currently all the rage among, of all things, church groups, where you test to learn your basic personality trait that has both sides - the positive and the negative side of that trait. It appears, it is the negative trait that we utilize when we must stand up for ourselves or handle a difficult stressful situation - I'm seeing the Count was brought up in a world where the appropriate behavior for his station in life no longer works in the new governing system and so, slowly his 'light' is being extinguished, just by behaving as he was trained and educated to think and act in another system. Seems those who did not enjoy his education react as if signs of education should also disappear, so as not to chaff those who lack a similar education. Oh dear - is the world better off as if we are all unlabeled wine do you think? 

Bellamarie what is the name of the flower in your garden - beautiful - during the heat of our summer the bees in my yard go underground - they find a spot where they can buzz and hide under a tree root that protrudes above ground - makes it a challenge for Alejandro, the teen next door who mows my lawn - Have you read The Bees by Laline Paull - i have not read it yet, but I understand it is a novel that the bees natural way of life is made into a story of survival for this female bee. Such a nice idea to plant a garden with bees in mind - I remember you shared last year a nice photo of your entire garden - what a treat to walk out in the morning with coffee in hand and just breath it all in.

Ha I just thought - with swings in the weather living north during the winter months I bet it is easier to imagine yourself as the Count, pretty much shut off from the outside world except for your planned forays bundled up against the weather. You and yes, Karen who is inside most of the summer in order to stay cool.

Karen I think the difference is you are probably more like Houston with so much humidity but yes, August is like a northern winter in that the sun hammers down so the best of us try to get our outdoor activities completed by 9: in the morning and we are indoors till at least 7: in the evening when the breeze picks up and the sun is no longer breathing fire on us. I must say though I prefer the days when the temps are triple digit as compared to the days in the high 90s - that is when there is so much humidity that I feel drained where as triple digit temps burn off the humidity.

This is the first year in forever that we have been so housebound in winter - I can count the days on one hand since January 1 that we have seen the sun. Unusually cold, wet, thick fog, grey overcast - brrr and grrr Usually by early February I am out digging and planting - not this year - the Jasmin is only now starting to bloom, nearly a month late - I really need to take a chapter from your book Bellamarie and find out what plants grow here to attract bees that the deer will not eat - we have been so busy planting for the Monarchs that migrate through our area in the early fall since the unusual cold in Mexico a couple of years ago really knocked out the Monarch population. 

Well onward to Book 3 - let's see how the Count, who learned from generations of men before him to surreptitiously hide gold coins in the least suspected place, handles life in this new gray society, as Pat says, "I wonder if the Count's inner life will take a different turn now." .
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #193 on: February 27, 2018, 04:03:37 PM »
Just had to share this email notice I just received after the shared photo of a bee attracting garden flower and talk of bees

Tomorrow, February 2018 Lunchtime Lecture - Pastoral Nature: Agrarianism and Rural America

In 1785, Thomas Jefferson famously asserted that, “Cultivators of the earth are the most valuable citizens. They are the most vigorous, the most independent, the most virtuous, & they are tied to their country & wedded to its liberty & interests by the most lasting bands,” and he wanted to see America transformed into a democratic pastoral arcadia of farms and ranches.

This pastoral nature is the competing concept of American nature focused on farmland and ranchland in contrast to wilderness. Moreover, as American cities grew, rural life and nature in the countryside were seen as a cure for over-urbanized Americans who needed a weekend in the country to recover from the stress of city life.

Today, the American small family farm is still an idealized place of encounter and engagement with rural nature, best championed by Wendell Berry, who, like Jefferson, sees small farms as a cure for social problems and modern society’s mismanagement of nature. Thus, there is great cultural tension and a historic divide in the geography of the American mind between wilderness and pastoral nature. Join us as we explore the history of this idea of pastoral nature and its role in shaping contemporary agrarianism in America.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Mkaren557

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #194 on: February 27, 2018, 04:21:21 PM »
Funny, I don't see the Count as arrogant which all of you do.  I see him as a proud man who is trying to remain a person in spite of all attempts to force him into a "non person". To me he seems very resillant and strong even as he perches on the edge of the roof. He has lost his freedom, his titles, most of his possessions, his mustaches, his family, and childhood home.  I don't see him acting superior to others or demeaning those who were lesser born.  In fact his friends are employees of the hotel; he will soon be anemployee himself.  I am however open to being convinced.

Tomorrow we move on to the first half of book 3 which is about 248 in my book. 

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #195 on: February 28, 2018, 10:08:18 AM »
Karen, it's okay that you do not see the Count as everyone else does.  That's the interesting part of our discussions, we all bring our own perspectives. What one may feel and see, another may very well see quite the opposite, which is okay, and no one needs to be convinced to see it from another's perspective.

Barb
Quote
I'm seeing the Count was brought up in a world where the appropriate behavior for his station in life no longer works in the new governing system and so, slowly his 'light' is being extinguished, just by behaving as he was trained and educated to think and act in another system. Seems those who did not enjoy his education react as if signs of education should also disappear, so as not to chaff those who lack a similar education. Oh dear - is the world better off as if we are all unlabeled wine do you think? 

I do believe we are seeing this happening right here in our country today with the millennials.   They seem to want to throw out the baby with the bath water so to speak.  They don't want to follow what was/is important to the baby-boomer's generation.  What we find educated, proper, moral and tradition, they find confining.  I do feel like the Count, trying to figure out how to remain true to who I am,
 without seeming unimportant in today's society.

PatH.,
Quote
He's a man of ideas stuck in a static place.  I would go crazy.

He has always found his purpose in life by doing, thinking, traveling, being involved with people.  The hotel walls are closing in on him.  Then the bees give him new hope. 

Barb,
Quote
"if it is Karma that brings on painful happenings than we have to blame victims for their experiences"

kar·ma
ˈkärmə
noun
(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.
informal
destiny or fate, following as effect from cause.


My mention of Kama was implying the effect from the cause.  He may very well have not been intending his actions to be as the lieutenant and Bishop perceived them, but it was his actions, that did indeed cause their reacting to him later on the way they did. 

The name of my flower in the pic is Lavender, but the bees absolutely love my Rose of Sharon bush, more than anything else I plant.  I have not read The Bees by Laline Paull.  Interesting how your bees protect themselves from the extreme heat.  I recall my friend was mowing his lawn one summer, hit a mound of bees in the ground, they swarmed him so badly he needed to be taken to urgent care.  I do feel like a little bit of heaven is here on earth when all my flowers are in bloom, and I go out in the morning, sit on my patio, or walk around my pool taking in their beauty.  It really is the little things is life that bring you so much joy!  I am patiently awaiting to see how my Mom's rose bush survived the winter.  My younger sister lives on our homestead in Michigan, and gave me a shoot from our mother's favorite climbing rose bush last summer.  I went out every morning and knelt by the angel statue I placed in front of the rose shoot, and would say a little good morning to my Mom, and then pray for the rose to thrive and grow.  It was climbing the trellis wonderfully by the time Fall was over.

I began Book Three yesterday, and Karen I can see how the reading goes a bit more quickly.  The author is not taking the time to savor what is going on now.  Towles is bringing us forward much faster, and gliding over things, such as Nina is now a teen with so little time to spare to chat with the Count.  Anna has risen as a movie actress, fallen, and on the rise again.  Phew..... it sure is at a fast pace now.
 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #196 on: February 28, 2018, 11:02:35 AM »
I don't see the Count as arrogant either.  Some things which might seem so out of context, like his behavior to the Hussar who courted his sister, were just playing by the rules of his class at that time.

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #197 on: February 28, 2018, 11:26:49 AM »
I see glimpses of arrogance when he finds pleasure in another person discomforts and humiliation, such as how he was in the courtroom, when he dismisses the lieutenant's IOU in front of all the others, when he laughed at the lieutenant slipping on ice while with the Princess, and interrupting the Bishop about the proper wine to suggest to another table.  The entire chapter on his way he seemed to out maneuver the lieutenant with the Princess seemed a bit out of character, and immature. The Count overall, is a very likable man by most everyone, his manners in public are impeccable.  I myself am mesmerized by him. I think it was good for the author to show some of his less admirable qualities.  He is after all, a flawed human as the rest of us.  If the author would have made him a perfect man in looks, deeds and actions, I personally would have not liked him as much as I do, because he would seem unapproachable.  To the contrary, he is very approachable to the lowest, middle and upper class of people.  But know I am not trying to dissuade anyone, from how they feel about him.  I think we all can agree, we like him very much!
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Mkaren557

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #198 on: February 28, 2018, 11:41:56 AM »
So in books 1&2 we covered 1922-1929, nine years.  The next three books will cover about twenty-five years.  The older I get, the faster time seems to pass.  This period in Russian history is most violent and oppressive;  Joseph Stalin was a monster.  In ythe part we have read so far the events outside the Metropol haven't seemed to affect life inside.  Even the labels are back on the wine bottles. Let's see how much the outside impacts the daily goings-on as we read on.  Stalin remains in power until  he dies in 1953.
A very interesting new character will be introduced very soon. 
 

bellamarie

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Re: A Gentleman in Moscow~Amor Towles~Winter-Spring Book Club Online~
« Reply #199 on: February 28, 2018, 02:25:30 PM »
Jonathan
Quote
1922, 1923...1924...1926...1930

Karen
Quote
The next three books will cover about twenty-five years.  Stalin remains in power until  he dies in 1953

Since I am so awful with history, it's good to have this timeline.

PatH.,
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I wonder if the Count's inner life will take a different turn now.

Book Three 1930

pg 173 - 74  History is the business  of identifying momentous events from the comfort  of a high-back chair.  With the benefit of time, the historian looks back and points to a date in the  manner of a gray-haired field marshal pointing to a bend in a river on a map:  There is was, he says.  The turning point.  The decisive factor.  The fateful day that fundamentally altered all that was to follow. 

There on the third of January 1928, the historians tell us, was the launch of the First Five-Year Plan__that initiative which would begin the transformation of Russia from a nineteenth-century agrarian society into a twentieth-century industrial power.  There on the seventeenth of November 1929, Nikolai Bukharin, founding father, editor of Pravada, and last true friend of the peasant, was outmaneuvered by Stalin and ousted from the Poliburo_clearing the way for a return to autocracy in all but name.  And there on the twenty-fifth of February 1027, was the drafting of Article 58 of the Criminal Code__the net that would eventually ensnare us all. 

And it would be a decade before their effects were fully felt.


The Count is now employed with the Boyarsky.  He seems to be a waiter and overseer of what is being cooked, along with how the restaurant is running. 

pg 180  When the Count left the Boyarsky with his white jacket draped across his arm, there was a smile on his lips and a jauntiness to his step.  In fact, there was a brightness in his whole demeanor. 

The cold winter is coming to an end, the temps are on the rise, the Count has a purpose in life working at the Boyarsky,  Emile the chef has given him a double bravo something that has not happened once or twice in the last four years, he has bumped into Nina who is now an adventurous self-assured teenager, Marina is teaching him to sew, and he has a midnight rendezvous to look forward to with the willowy Anna, who has returned.

From the top of a parapet about to jump, he is now buzzing like a bee in flight of honey.  He seems to have taken to working and being called Comrade, which is a term used for all people of all status.  I would like to think the Count's, inner life has taken a turn.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden