Hound of Baskervilles by A. Conan Doyle

[ClassicsAdmin]

The Hound of the Baskervilles by A. Conan Doyle "Sherlock Holmes' most famous case, the Hound of the Baskervilles, was set on foggy Dartmoor, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle got much of the inspiration for the book from real-life people and places - as well as folklore. The first episodes of Sherlock Holmes' best known adventure - were published in The Strand Magazine starting in August 1901."   http://classiclit.about.com

Links: Free Online Version - The Hound of the Baskervilles Official web site ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate. Sydney Paget Drawings: Archive The Sherlock Holmes Museum Schedule: Jan. 2nd  --- Jan. 8th       Chapters: 1 -- 5 Jan. 9th  ---  Jan. 15th     Chapters: 6 -- 10 Jan. 16th --- Jan. 22st     Chapters 11 -- 15

Discussion Leaders:  BillH and fairanna

[BillH]

THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES

Welcome friends of CyberSpace and let us cross the moors to Baskerville's Hall but be careful of those treacherous bogs that could drag you down into their depths.  But, above all, beware of THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES, perhaps a guide, as in the schedule, will give us safe passage to the mansion.

Every time I think of Sherlock Holmes,  Dr. Watson springs to mind. After all, what would a Sherlock Holmes story be without dear Watson. I'm quite sure Sir Arthur Conan Doyle realized, as he continued to write these tales, that Dr. Watson contributed to the success of the novels as much as the detective.  I feel Conan Doyle used Watson as a sounding board for his stories the same as Sherlock used Watson to formulate his theories.

Dear readers, discussion leaders, and technicians,  if we can get a quorum, we will track the dreadful hound that caused so much trouble to the Baskervilles

[fairanna]

Well after reading the first three chapters I realised why this story always intrigued me....This is the first time I have ever stopped short of finishing reading the whole thing!  To me it shows what an excellent author Sir Conan Doyle was and why his books still intrigue after all these years.
I cannot remember how the story ended but I am trying to think what could the HOUND be! A horse was mentioned and so I wonder could it be a horse ? Could it be some insane person who disliked the Baskervilles ?
Any ideas from anyone?
One thing I have always loved about Doyles books was his language, It was very erudite and commanding and written in such a way you kept wanting to read on to the end ...
So shall we look at what we have read and make any guesses , comments, puzzles?
On we go with Sherlock Holmes as he explains his thinking ? his deductions ?
What think you?  fairanna

[Brian]

I would love to join in the discussion.  I'm off to the local library today and will pick up a copy of the book.
Brian.

[PatH]

You couldn't keep me away with an army of hounds.  I'll start reading with lunch, and it won't take me too long.  I've read the book before, and I agree that Dr. Watson is the key to the storytelling, and Doyle certainly knew how to tell a story properly.

In case there is anyone here who hasn't read the book before, I promise not to reveal plot points ahead of the assignment and spoil it for them.

[Phyll]

It is so good to see you again, Bill and Annafair, and to be off on another book adventure. 

I hadn't read very far when I was off and Googling.  Why is the walking stick called a Penang Lawyer?  This is what I found:

PENANG, LAWYER s. The popular name of a handsome and hard (but sometimes brittle) walking- stick, exported from Penang and Singapore.

It is the stem of a miniature palm (Licuala acutifida, Griffith). The sticks are prepared by scraping the young stem with glass, so as to remove the epidermis and no more. The sticks are then straightened by fire and polished (Balfour). The name is popularly thought to have originated in a jocular supposition that law-suits in Penang were decided by the lex baculina. But there can be little doubt that it is a corruption of some native term, and pinang liyar, ‘wild areca’ [or pinang layor, “fire-dried areca,” which is suggested in N.E.D.], may almost be assumed to be the real name. [Dennys (Descr. Dict. s.v.) says from “Layor, a species of cane furnishing the sticks so named.”
But this is almost certainly wrong.]

     1883.—(But the book—an excellent one—is without date—more shame to the Religious Tract Society which publishes it). “Next morning, taking my ‘Penang lawyer’ to defend myself from dogs. …” The following note is added: “A Penang lawyer is a heavy walking-stick, supposed to be so called from its usefulness in settling disputes in Penang.”—Gilmour, Among the Mongols, 14.

You all have hardly unlocked the door and already I've learned something.  Welcome back!

[JoanK]

PHYLL: how interesting! Please tell us where the quote is from.

I can't believe that with my love of mysteries, I've never read "Hound". Great to repair that omission with you all.

[Phyll]

I'm sorry.  I try to always post the source but I was in too much of a hurry today, I think.  Here is the link to the information about the Penang Lawyer:

http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/1283/20162/1/frameset.html

[BillH]

Brian, you are most welcome to join us in this discussion. I hope you can get the book, however, you can read it on line I'll post a link for the on line read.Thank you.

Phyll, thank you for the expanation and link.  It's pick ups on little things that make for a good  book discussion.

Pat and JoanK, so good to see you here. I know this is going to be GREAT.
Bill H

[BillH]

Folks, the following link will take you to a very good on line read of this novel. The font size is excellent with chapters names as a guide.

I have asked Pat to place it in the heading.

Below is the link for this fine read.

THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES

Bill H

[Ella Gibbons]

THANK YOU BILL FOR THE LINK!

I'll try to get it read, at least the first assignment tomorrow or this weekend sometime.  I was at the Library today and forgot to pick up a copy.  I love mysteries and can't believe I missed this one.  It's a classic. 

[BillH]

Ella! So good to see you here. I do hope you enjoy this fiction novel. Is this your first?

Bill H

[PatH]

I'm a Sherlock Holmes nut, and one of the things I love about the stories is the wealth of detail about life in Victorian England.  The Penang Lawyer is a new one for me, thanks, Phyll.  Holmes feels free to receive company in his dressing gown, which seems to be a sort of bathrobe, but he must be dressed underneath, since it only takes him a few seconds to be ready to go out.  And what is the "varnish" that Sir Henry had to have put on his boots before he could wear them?

Aside from all these trivia, look what a splendid setup we have.  A ghastly family legend involving a spectral hound, a mysterious anonymous letter, someone following Sir Henry, etc.  and we haven't even gotten to the mysterious moors.

[Ella Gibbons]

Hi Bill.  No, I read mysteries now and then; although I read nonfiction for the most part and am waiting to open the Nonfiction folder here on our Book site.

I believe I have read this book years ago, but what fun to read it again and I won't say a word about it at all, except to wonder who, what, where, when and why Sir Charles Baskerville was killed.

[Brian]

Dr James  Mortimer, M.RC.S. (Member of the Royal College of Surgeons), calls himself
"Mister" - - - at that time in England, all surgeons were proud to be called Mister to set them apart from the physicians, who were either F.R.C.P. (Fellows of the Royal College of Physicians), or, if they had gained their credentials from a university, M.D. (Doctor of Medicine).  Dr Mortimer was not a certified surgeon but a General Practitioner or as we call them nowadays, family physician.  A full surgeon would have to attained his F.R.C.S.

Brian.

[Gumtree]

Hi Bill & Fairanna- Isn't it great to have a discussion under way. Hope to join in though probably won't contribute much - I'm not really a Sherlock Holmes fan but this is one of the better books about him and his erstwhile companion Dr. Watson. I read it long ago but don't seem to own a copy - will read online until I can get to the library.

PatH mentions the dressing gown - it was the custom for gentlemen relaxing at home to remove their jackets and shoes and replace them with slippers and dressing gown - so they were fully dressed underneath. The dressing gowns were usually heavy silk brocade or something similar. The custom prevailed probably until WWII or later among the upper echelon of British society. The men would relax in their dressing gowns (perhaps with a drink?) and then dress for dinner - much more elegant than sitting around in one's shirtsleeves.

Brian: In Australia, we still refer to our surgeons as 'Mister' and what you term the family physician is still our 'General Practitioner' commonly called the 'GP'.

[kidsal]

Have the book and have watched the movie several times on PBS.

[Phyll]

A few weeks ago I stumbled across the "old" movie of The Hound....., starring Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce.  What fun to watch even though it is terribly outdated.  The acting in those days was far less subtle than it is in today's films, but vey enjoyable.  It's strange but when I picture Sherlock Holmes in my mind he always looks like Basil Rathbone!   

[Ella Gibbons]

"The devil's agents may be of flesh and blood, may they not??"  (Chapter Four)

Here is the list of characters I have found, so far, in the story:

Perkins the gardener
 Mr. Stapleton, a mutual friend 
 Mr. Frankland, of Lafter Hall,
Sir Henry, the heir

Perhaps I missed one or two? 

In most mysteries, we look for motive!

[fairanna]

Wonderful to see so many posts and such great observations  I finished reading chapters 4 and 5 and started on 6...I love all the convoluted thoughts ...I am not sure I can keep them all separated and mull over what I think could be made of the clues...but what fun to try.

Phyll like you I "see" Sherlock Holmes as Basil Rathbone...
I havent seen the movie since I was a young girl. My  library may have it but unless it has Closed captioning it wont help me...

I am reading it on line by the way .I am sure the library would have a copy but my left eye which is nearsighted has a cataract and I find print hard to read....my right eye was operated on 20 years ago and the implant was a farsighted one...now my mind has used both so well I have never worn glasses since...and they wouldnt help now but that is what is so wonderful about computers AND discussions..I am elated to be able to be part of a book discussion and such a wonderful one with such special people .

I will not read ahead but will be on tenterhooks until I find out who and why...and I know I will wonder if my guess will be correct ..when I make one...this is the best New Year GIft ..thanks for all the hard work that made it possible and for each of you that make it real and wonderful..fairanna

[PatH]

Characters: Don't forget the Barrymores, caretaker and housekeeper of Baskerville Hall.

It's very appropriate that we all "see" Holmes as Basil Rathbone, since Rathbone looks a lot like Sidney Paget's drawings.

By the way, Sir Henry is humungously rich.  740,000 pounds would be almost 4 million dollars, and inflation would multiply tthat by at least 10, more likely 20.

[EvelynMC]

Hi BillH., Fairanna, and everyone else,

I'll be reading along with you.

Evelyn

[JoanK]

What fun!

ELLA : "In most mysteries, we look for motive!"

Motive, means, and opportunity! But those alone don't establish guilt. You need something that links the suspect to the murder, or shows that they are lying -- the famous "clues".

A good mystery writer will give the reader the clues, too, but mixed with "red herrings" meant to send us down false trails. Much of the fun of mysteries for me is this puzzle aspect. Modern writers are often sloppy about this, and have the detective accidently stumble on the murderer. UGH!!

[PatH]

Hi, Evelyn!

[BillH]

Brian, yes, as you say surgeons were called "Mister" in England. I believe I read an explanation of that in the Dr. Jekyll and Mister Hyde novel. I'll try and find out  more.

Kidsal, welcome to the discussion.

Phyll, try as I might I always picture Holmes as Rathbone and Watson as Nigel Brue. Although Jermey Brett did a good Holmes also.

Ella  and PatH, Conan Doyle created mysterious  character depth in this novel. I feel this added to the gloomy atmosphere of Doyle's novel.

And, Pat, if I'm not mistaken in those days a British pound was worth about Five dollars in U S currency. And figuring in the humble cost of merchandise and labor in that period in England, as you say,  makes our Sir Henry fabulsly  wealthy.

I'm always amazed at the size of the mansions or halls built in those days. The cost would probably now make them prohibitive to build. Although Nelson DeMille, in his novel The Gold Coast, does a masterful job of describing the huge, ornate mansions built by the wealthy in the early 1900.  The fabled Gold Coast is  that stretch on the North Shore of Long Island that once held the greatest concentration of wealth and power

EvelynMC and Gumtree, welcome to the discussion. Seems as though we have quite a group gathering here. So glad you are joining us. 

Bill H
1.

[BillH]

My copy of the novel contains a forward by Bruce Brooks. What follows is an excerpt from that forward:

"The Hound of the Baskervilles" is the perfect mystery, possibly even the perfect novel. From the start it grabs one's full range of feelings and makes everything that happens seem big time. It grabs the mind, too–the story is scary beyond reason, yet tantalizing to the intellect.  And the  various possible endings to the tale threaten and inspire one's inner sense of justice."....

Folks, as you read the story, would you please express your thoughts as to the above written by Mr. Brooks?

Bill H

[fairanna]

Bill= Brooks couldnt have said it better...almost from the first page it has grabbed my attention....I feel darkly  spooky (the same the first time I read it)Doyle fills his pages with possible suspects, motives, hints at dark events  My mind keeps trying to struggle with how did it end..since I am refusing to read ahead I am going to feel that way until the end...a rather delicious spookiness...while my mind tries to rescue me while trying to recall the end I am glad it is failing because this is the kind of mystery I have always loved.

I am often disappointed in todays mysteries ...the story is too detailed for my taste I am glad when a mystery keeps me guessing until the last word and I dont wish a blueprint oh how to commit a crime...I want to be kept looking for clues in what the author says  so I can say at the end AHA I guessed right or alas he really fooled me....makes me want to read more by the same author...and of course the best part is DISCUSSING it with other readers ....are'nt we lucky? fairanna

[Brian]

My copy of the Hound ( from our local public library ) has an afterword containing the
same sentiments as those expressed by Bruce Brooks.

It is written by Anne Perry, who is one of the world's most famous mystery writers, and
she says : -

I think it is not only that Hound has all the elements of brilliant storytelling: mystery and
the supernatural, suspense, evil and innocence, intellect, romance, human villainy,
adventure, and the ultimate in terror are woven seamlessly into it.  It also has a deeper
symbolism of the elements of life that lie within the experience of all of us.  We
recognize them, consciously or not, and take a different kind of pleasure, which can be
repeated over and over again.

Well said both Bruce Brooks and Anne Perry.

Brian.

[Babi]

I know I posted in one of the "Hound" sites, but apparently it wasn't this one. Is this where the actual book discussion will take place, or do I need to be somewhere else.

 As a start, two thoughts were uppermost as I started reading the story again.
First, I feel that Holmes tends to be patronizing toward Watson, and it irritates me.  Not only that Holmes does it, but that Watson accepts it.
   The second thing that caught my attention was how skillfully Doyle evoked the mood of the moors.  I know that many people have loved the moors, both in fact and in fiction, but I would find it hard to spend much time there. I need trees!

Babi

[JoanK]

OK, I can't resist posting my Sherlock Holmes joke. If you've heard it, please skip this post.

Holmes and Watson went camping. During the night, Holmes said "Watson: look up, and tell me what you see and what it means".

Watson looked and said "I see millions on millions of stars, just like ours. It means that around those stars are millions and millions of planets just like ours. And there are millions and millions of other galaxies just like ours containing millions and millions of stars and more millions and millions of planets. So somewhere on all those planets just like ours there may be intelligent life, just like us."

No, Watson, you idiot" said Holmes. "It means that someone has stolen our tent."

[serenesheila]

Hi, all.  I just found this site.  I have never read Doyle, but saw most of the Holmes' movies.  I want to mark my place, here.  I am down with the flu, but will read along with all of you.

Sheila

[Brian]

I HAVE heard the joke, but Joan you tell it so well.

It puts me in mind of the story of the man who, on entering Jail, was handed the Joke Book.  The inmates just had to call out a number, and everyone laughed.

The newbie chose his favorite joke by number and there was a deathly silence.

He said ; "Why didn't any one laugh? They did when it was called by Joe".

And someone said; "he tells it better than you !"

Brian.

[Ella Gibbons]

CLUES, BILL SAID.

So, having just read through Chapter Four, I put forth the following:

Footprints (man, animal or man-made?)
Manuscript (who hated the Baskervilles so much and why)
Letter to Sir Henry (who knew his arrival?)

Sunday morning musings!

BABI, that relationship has been studied and discussed for decades!  But the phrase "My dear Watson" is used by many of us as a term of endearment of a friend with a quizzical look, perhaps?

YES, YES, I LEFT OUT THE BARRYMORES AS SUBJECTS AS POSSIBLE SUSPECTS!

Now, on to Chapter Five where I shall, undoubtedly, remove old suspects, clues and suspicions.

[Ella Gibbons]

"But we hold several threads in our hands, and the odds are that one or other of them guides us to the truth. We may waste time in following the wrong one, but sooner or later we must come upon the right." - Chapter Five

Another suspect?  "James Desmond is an elderly clergyman in Westmoreland."

[EvelynMC]

JoanK and Brian,

Thanks for the chuckle this morning.  That's why I love these book discussions. 

Evelyn

[BillH]

Anna, thank you for a  splendid reply for the Brooks quote.

Brian, thank you very much for posting the Anne Perry quote. It appears as though The Hound of the Baskervill's is the Grand Master of mysteries.

Babi , you are in the RIGHT PLACE. Thanks for your thoughts on the moors of England.  I have found the mere mention of that name brings a brooding mystery to any story.

JoanK, that was a  good one, but, like Brian, I have heard that before.

Sheila, welcome to the discussion. I  am sorry to hear you aren't feeling well. Did you get your flu shot?

Ella, thank you for pointing to some clues. They give rise to some thoughts.

Bill H

[BillH]

Holmes and Watson are often mentioned to be hailing or riding in a Hansom Cab.  I knew the name Hansom was derived from the designers name, however, I sometimes wondered how "cab" come into being.  Well the following  information answered both quite nicely.

"A hansom cab is a kind of horse-drawn carriage designed and patented in 1834 by Joseph Hansom, an architect from York. The vehicle was developed and tested by Hansom in Hinckley, Leicestershire, England. Originally known as the Hansom safety cab, its purpose was to combine speed with safety, with a low centre of gravity that was essential for safe cornering. Hansom's original design was heavily altered by John Chapman to improve its practicability, but retained Hansom's name

Cab is a shortening of cabriolet, reflecting the design of the carriage. It replaced the hackney carriage as a vehicle for hire; with the introduction of clockwork mechanical taximeters to measure fares, the name became taxicab. Hansom cabs enjoyed immense popularity as they were ....

To read the entire text click on this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansom_cab

[PatH]

That's interesting about the Hansom.  It sure doesn't look like a low center of gravity to me--it looks like all the weight is above the wheels, and it could easily tip backward or forward.

[Brian]

I have just discovered that the NOTIFY button works on this site - - - it did not always
work on the "old " (to coin a phrase) SeniorNet - - - and it dutifully sends me an email
when anyone posts a message to a discussion in which I am interested.   Bravo !!

Brian

[PatH]

The manuscript:  Holmes has remarkable eyesight.  He sees "an inch or two" of a manuscript sticking out of Dr. Mortimer's pocket, and is able to date it to about 1730 by such things as the "alternative use of the long s and the short".  Given what handwriting looked like then, that's pretty good.

But what a story unfolds!  The wild chase across the moor, the unearthly hound, and the family curse!  A good start for a gothic tale.