Author Topic: PBS Masterpiece Mystery! ~ Six by Christie (Read 76384 times)

JoanK · « **Reply #160 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:04:02 PM »

Six 90-minute mysteries — Sundays, June 21-July 26, 2009
"With grey cells firing and knitting needles clicking, Hercule Poirot (David Suchet) and Miss Marple (Julia McKenzie) star in Six by Agatha, a half-dozen whodunits by the greatest mystery author of all time, Agatha Christie." (PBS Masterpiece Mystery!)

Would you enjoy discussing these new PBS mysteries? Reading the books adds a whole new dimension, as we learned reading Henning Mankell's novels.
Thank you for promoting reading, Masterpiece! Are you interested?

June 21, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Cat Among the Pigeons
Something is amiss at Meadowbank School for Girls, where hidden rubies, kidnapping, and murder disrupt the term. View the episode online through July 5 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html

June 28, 2009 at 9pm
Hercule Poirot: Mrs. McGinty's Dead
A man is about to hang for a brutal murder. But did he do it? After learning about 30-year-old homicides, Poirot concludes a ghost from the past has returned. View the episode online through July 12 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/poirot/watch.html

	July 5, 2009 at 9pm Miss Marple: A Pocket Full of Rye A killer who seems obsessed with a nursery rhyme commits a string of murders. Miss Marple and a local detective (Matthew Macfadyen) join forces to investigate. View the episode online through July 19 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html.
	July 12, 2009 at 9pm Miss Marple: Murder is Easy (the book is sometimes called EASY TO KILL) Miss Marple investigates a string of "accidents" after a woman on a train tells her about murders in a local village. Benedict Cumberbatch co-stars. View the episode online through July 26 at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/marple/watch.html.
	July 19, 2009 at 9pm Miss Marple: They Do it With Mirrors (the book is sometimes called MURDER WITH MIRRORS) During rehearsal for an amateur show a murder occurs, and Miss Marple must decipher the elaborate conjuring trick played by the killer. Joan Collins co-stars.
	July 26, 2009 at 9pm Miss Marple: Why Didn't They Ask Evans? (the book is sometimes titled THE BOOMERANG CLUE) The last words of a dying man lead the sole witness and a socialite to investigate. Miss Marple joins them as they land in a hotbed of homicide and intrigue.

Discussion Leader: Babi

That description of the nursery rhyme was fantastic! Who knew? I know about "Ring around-a-rosy, and "This little piggy", but not others.

Babi · « **Reply #161 on:** July 09, 2009, 08:35:57 AM »

GINNY, what fun! I have also read that some 'nonsense' songs were really
ways of dishing out the society gossip. Everyone 'in the know' knew what
they referred to, but the offended party couldn't take offense
without acknowledging the rhyme as a reference to him/herself.
JOANK, please, tell us what "Ring Around The Rosy" and "This Little
Piggy" really meant.

I have "They Do It With Mirrors" sitting in the other room, waiting to
be read. I don't remember that one offhand, so I'm looking forward to
reading it. "Why Didn't They Ask Evans", now, was one of those that kept
me puzzled to the end. Comes the explanation, and it's "Ohhh, I see!"

Frybabe · « **Reply #162 on:** July 09, 2009, 09:25:26 AM »

When I mentioned the nursery rhyme to my best friend, he said he hadn't heard of the Blackbeard origin. He believed it originated as something else, but of course I forgot what. He is out of town, so I can't ask him again just now. However, I did find this in Wikipedia at the very bottom of the page regarding "Sing a Song of Sixpence":

Quote

An origin posted on the Snopes.com section The Repository Of Lost Legends (TROLL) - that the song was originally used by Blackbeard's pirates to attract new members - was actually created by Snopes, and has no factual basis,[4] but was an exercise, like the other Lost Legends, in advising against false authority.[5]

What a shame. I kind of liked this explanation.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #163 on:** July 09, 2009, 12:50:46 PM »

I am remembering this as something to do with - the King in the counting house counting out his money and the queen was in the parlor eating bread and honey and the maid was in the garden hanging out the clothes when along came a blackbird and snipped off her nose and then the bit about four a twenty blackbirds baked in a pie - so that I always thought that was the punishment for the bird snipping off the maid's nose - Because when I was very little my grandmother sung it in German and it wasn't blackbirds it was 'vier und zwanzig Buben backte in ein Pastete' and when we asked why were boys baked in the pie it was because they didn't do what they were told. And so of course to me the blackbirds got their just deserts.

What was the one - something a cook is chasing children to boil them in the pot - did it have something to do with the cow jumping over the moon - so many of these nursery rhymes have been sanitized in the last 40 or 50 years so that they no longer have the images that were - but I remember this image even being in a stage production - maybe a ballet - something where several nursery rhymes were pantomimed across the front of the stage and the cook with a wooden spoon was chasing a young boy round a large rounded pot, taller than the boy dancer, was made to look like it was steaming and the boy was going to be cooked.

Some place I read that many of these awful nurseray tales were as a result of the lingering memory from the Children's Crusades where the children never returned and they did not know what happened to them - the Pied Piper being one tale - turned out those children that did not die on route were sold into slavery in Constantinople.

ginny · « **Reply #164 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:06:14 PM »

hahaha, what a hoot, who do you trust, Wikipedia (please!) or snopes, the site of those who disprove Urban Legends? hahahaa

But there are MORE!! Check this one, out Henry VIII? Blackbeard? You can take your choice!

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1904/whats-the-nursery-rhyme-sing-a-song-of-sixpence-all-about

retired · « **Reply #165 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:34:05 PM »

I took the opprtunity to view the recent episode of Ms Marple " A Pocket Full of Rye "
a second time . I find I see and learn more ths second time . Reinforcement of information does indeed aid learning.
Ms Marple really does solve the case for Inspector Neely as he pays attention to her assessments and looks perplexed as she discusses the case with him .
The ending scene really hit the mark when Ms Marple reads the letter and sees the photograph of Lance and Myrtle together which had arrived in her absence from home .
What were your thoughts about the ending scene ? Anyone ?

JoanK · « **Reply #166 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:51:46 PM »

That is the way the book ends. I call it very effective.

Ring around the Rosie, I've always heard, refers to the Black Death. The first line describes the appearance of the rash that appears. The "Pocket ful of posy" is the habit of carrying bags of herbs to ward off the plague. Ashes, ashes are from the cremated bodies, and all fall down is death.

The "little piggies" refer to people of the day. I have to look up exactly who.

JoanK · « **Reply #167 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:56:54 PM »

OK, I can't find it. Someone explained an origin to me once (who each person was: obviously people being parodied in some political dispute, buit whoever it was might have made it up: I couldn't find a reference to it. Shame on gullible me.

Babi · « **Reply #168 on:** July 10, 2009, 08:26:36 AM »

Hmm..I suppose a 'bag' full of rye makes more sense than 'pocketful'. Other
than that, the idea of naughty boys baked in a pie is definitely horrifying.
One wonders if at some time there was a financial scandal involving rye
in which 24 swindlers got caught and punished. Hey, sounds as good as some
of the other stories, right?

The political dispute origin of 'piggies' sounds reasonable to me, JOAN.
How often do we hear greedy, corrupt persons referred to as pigs at a trough?
The reference to 'market', tho', makes me think it might have been a financial
boondoggle as well as a political one.

I've started reading "They Do It With Mirrors" for Sunday nights film. And oh
my, we can surely expect some trimming of the list of characters here. We
are simply teeming with possible suspects, with a background setting somewhat
similar to Poirot's "Cat Among the Pigeons" case.

retired · « **Reply #169 on:** July 11, 2009, 04:31:31 PM »

Babi :
Isn't there a nursery rhyme " Sing a Song of Sixpense and a Pocket full of Rye Four Twenty BlackBirds baked in a Pie " ?
I was confused about Christie 's use of the title of her book until I remembered some of the nursery rhyme after viewing the film.
I have not read the book .

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #170 on:** July 11, 2009, 05:08:10 PM »

http://www.cajuncookingrecipes.com/wildgamerecipes/black_bird_pie.htm

JoanP · « **Reply #171 on:** July 11, 2009, 05:59:47 PM »

hahaha, Barbara - an amazing recipe! Can't say I'm going to be trying it anytime soon though - that's a lot of game birds to keep in the pantry!

Retired - yes - the blackbirds, the pocketful of rye - the maid hanging the laundry in the courtyard when the bird nipped off her nose - and left the poor thing with a clothespin in its place. I think it will make more sense to you when you read the book.

This week I'm experimenting - won't read the book until after I view "Murder is Easy" tomorrow night. I want to see if I can follow the story - and THEN I plan to read the book to see what I missed. This will be a first.

This week I'm experimenting - won't read the book until after I view "Murder is Easy" tomorrow night. I want to see if I can follow the story - and THEN I plan to read the book to see what I missed. This will be a first.

Here's a link to an interview with Christie's son - and if you look to the left of the interview there's another link to Christie's biography. Some information about her marriages - the first ended in divorce after Archie Christie confessed his affair to her. Although the name of the woman wasn't mentioned in this biographcy, I've read elsewhere that her name was - Amelia Earhart!!! Do you suppose this is true?

Here's the grandson on his grandma -

Quote

"I suppose the nearest that any character came to being like my grandmother herself was Ariadne Oliver. Even she wasn't [completely like her — there were a few things that were similar, my grandmother liked apples and liked cream, for example — but I don't think my grandmother was as chaotically dressed as Ariadne Oliver was. I think members of the family that read the Ariadne Oliver novels recognize a certain twinkle in her eye, a sense of humor, and a love of the ordinary things of life that reminded them of my grandmother."

Agatha Christie's Grandson's memories

Babi · « **Reply #172 on:** July 12, 2009, 08:02:34 AM »

Oh,yes, RETIRED. I remember it from my own childhood.

A common modern version is:

Sing a song of sixpence,
A pocket full of rye.
Four and twenty blackbirds,
Baked in a pie.
When the pie was opened,
The birds began to sing.
Wasn't that a dainty dish,
To set before the king?

The king was in his counting house,
Counting out his money;
The queen was in the parlour,
Eating bread and honey.
The maid was in the garden,
Hanging out the clothes;
When down came a blackbird
And snipped off her nose.

Ignore the last part of my post #168. Tonight's film is "Murder Is Easy"; next week is "They Do It With Mirrors". It appears I will be doing the viewing/reading of this weeks offering as JOANP proposes to do! I got my reading out of sequence. :-

Frybabe · « **Reply #173 on:** July 12, 2009, 10:42:17 PM »

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed Murder is Easy. I haven't read the book so I can't compare but I did like how the cameras kept doing close ups of possible poisonable things. I was also more impressed with Julia MacKenzie's performance in this one than I was in Pocket Full of Rye. The other actors did well, especially the guys that played the policeman (uniform,forgot the character's name already) and Major Horton.

joangrimes · « **Reply #174 on:** July 12, 2009, 11:34:41 PM »

Well I have just read this book and then watched the PBS production. I wish that I had not read the book. I did not enjoy the PBS production because it was changed completely. I would never have recognized the PBS production as this book because it was changed so much. I thought the book was so much better than the PBS production.

Joan Grimes

marcie · « **Reply #175 on:** July 13, 2009, 01:28:18 AM »

Frybabe, I too watched the TV episode without reading the book and I enjoyed it. I thought Miss Marple was very good in this one.

Babi · « **Reply #176 on:** July 13, 2009, 08:06:44 AM »

Okay, one of the disadvantages of seeing the film without having read the book, is that it is so hard to get the characters straight. (The policeman was
Reed, FR6BABE......I think.) Anyway, we were introduced to a half-dozen
characters as soon as Miss Marple arrives for the funeral. That took all of
maybe five minutes, but over half-way through the film I was still trying to
get them all straight. Agatha Christie did like to have lots of possible suspects
for her stories.

I found Jessie Humbleby's (the doctor's widow) behavior very strange. It
never was explained entirely to my satisfaction, though obviously her new
freedom went to ther head. No grieving widow, this one. And I found it
hard to credit that five people were murdered so horribly by a woman you
would think could not possibly do such a thing. I had to suppose that her
brother was not the only one in the family with mental problems.

Since I missed the book on this one, those of you who read the book must
tell us. Did the book do a better job of explaining the character of the murderer? What insights did you find in the book that could not be..or were not...transferred to the film?

ginny · « **Reply #177 on:** July 13, 2009, 08:29:39 AM »

That's a good question, I'm, however, chiming in to say I caught the last 27 minutes of it, having not read the book this time and having only a vague memory of it.

It's instructive to watch the last of the show, you miss all the atmospheric beginning, you miss the murder and the build up, and you're stuck with a sort of denouement, so the performances really stand out. They, in my own opinion, were very bad.

THAT is not Miss Marple, I'm sorry. I know some of you like Julia McKenzie. She's better than Geraldine McEwan, that's true. She's too young, she's two years older than I am for Pete's sake, she's supposed to be in her late 70's, early 80's, made up to look old, there's none of how I envisioned her in the books, how Christie described her. I did read the interviews with her grandson, they are wonderful, thank you Babi.

He talks about the new actress and welcomes her to the stage, but if you notice he also mentions Joan Hickson as the "archtype," and that's what she is, she's the archtype, she's the personification of "Miss Marple," to me. And his grandmother liked her performance so much, she intended to write a play FOR her.

I have to be honest and say I did not finish it because the performances of the women were very odd and strange. Very poor acting. And to be honest, after watching about 15 minutes, I could not figure out who this woman was supposed to BE, I kept leaning in, watching for Miss Marple isms, they weren't there: she wasn't Miss Marple. Now I'm going to read the book and then see if Joan Hickson did this particular one, (* In Edit, she did not, so this is an open field for MdKenzie), as, being a dyed in the wool fan, I want to see it done properly. I'll watch another one of Hickson's so Miss Marple can come alive again. Everything old is new again? Sometimes they need to leave the oldies but goodies alone.

Can you imagine somebody other than David Suchet as Poriot now that he has created such a character in memory? I don't know why they keep making Miss Marple over. (I realize Joan Hickson has passed on, and she herself retired from the part in her 80's as she did not want to be "typecast ,") hahaha but why remake a character that was great to start with? In order to film episodes she did not make? I guess that's a valid rationale.

The motto of one of the big movie companies is Ars Gratia Artis (the one with the lion roaring). Art for the sake of art. Something that is good does not need to be constantly made over. Can you see a remake of Gone With the Wind? Who else could be Rhett Butler?

If I had to rate that one on the strength of the denouement, and acting, it would have a very low letter. If you have not seen HIckson in one of her performances, rent the tapes on Netflix.

ginny · « **Reply #178 on:** July 13, 2009, 08:45:05 AM »

Those who were asking about Christie's short stories, here is a list of some of them:

Short story collections
Poirot Investigates ·
Partners in Crime ·
The Mysterious Mr. Quin ·
The Thirteen Problems ·
The Hound of Death ·
The Listerdale Mystery ·
Parker Pyne Investigates ·
Murder in the Mews ·
The Regatta Mystery ·
The Labours of Hercules · T
The Witness for the Prosecution and Other Stories ·
Three Blind Mice and Other Stories ·
The Under Dog and Other Stories ·
The Adventure of the Christmas Pudding ·
Double Sin and Other Stories ·
The Golden Ball and Other Stories ·
Poirot's Early Cases ·
Miss Marple's Final Cases and Two Other Stories ·
Problem at Pollensa Bay and Other Stories ·
The Harlequin Tea Set ·
While the Light Lasts and Other Stories

nlhome · « **Reply #179 on:** July 13, 2009, 08:59:31 AM »

I watched the episode last night and enjoyed it. I know I read the book at one time, but it was in the past long enough not to interfere with my enjoyment of the story.

I agree, this current Miss Marple doesn't physically fit my personal image of her, but the nosiness came out quite nicely, I thought. My picture of Miss Marple is a little white-haired lady who is a little less mobile.

As for the number of "suspects" and the unlikely murderer, well, it is fiction. And I must say, now and then I read a news story that seems more like fiction than reality - so real life can seems just as "unlikely" as some of these stories.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #180 on:** July 13, 2009, 12:16:33 PM »

Something was missing and my take is none of them played their part with conviction - it was if they were all in a tableau, as if being superior to the story and the part they were playing in the story.

As to it not being like past versions or like the written story - I think it is best to just take the production for what it is rather than comparing - I am thinking back to all the discussion over who made the better king in Camelot - Richard Burton or Richard Harris. They each brought to the part their special stamp of acting - and while the argument raged the play itself was lost because folks wanted to make the play about one actor's interpretation and any change a new actor brings some see as a sacrilege rather than the play being a vehicle to allow an actor to show his stuff.

And so I am thinking we may be better off enjoying these productions for what is there - we are seeing an adaptation of a story and we know from the Movies, except for the Harry Potter books, no story is replicated.

I thought this was a difficult story to tell today – as much shame as there is with rape today it is openly talked about and there is acceptance for the victim rather than blame as there was as late as the 50s –

This actress has played wonderful parts but I do not think she showed the desperation to the point of seeming loony out-of-control that would be the situation for a young woman in the 20s, 30s and 40s so that her actions, although horrific would seem logical – At that time in history her actions would have been from a young women out-of-her-mind with no legal or socially accepted recourse or protection – a story that showed the emotional and mental state of a Natalie Wood in Splendor in the Grass - where as today there is no logical connection with her solution.

I do not think any of the caste were able to convey the dilemma of emotion as a result of the act of rape being revealed and her subsequent powerless desperate situtation where she uses the story of Moses as a guide for getting rid of her shame, the baby, and then to hide this shame she murders all those victims. The concept of outrage by everyone to cover their inadequacy knowing they would have blamed her for the rape and if alive the man would be left to rape again and again as the way it is, just did not come across.

joangrimes · « **Reply #181 on:** July 13, 2009, 01:06:01 PM »

This particular adaptation, if it can be called that, was so far from the book that it is rather ridiculous to have used the book to say it was written by Agatha Christie. Miss Marple was not even in this book. They just used a title of one of Christie's novels and the name of the place along with the names of characters and wrote a story. They took too many liberties with the book to be calling it by the name they did.

I agree that we do not need to make comparisons with Christie's books but just enjoy each production for itself. As for me I am not going to even try to reread the book of the same title as the production each time. I do want to reread the Christie novels but not along with these PBS productions.

Joan Grimes

marcie · « **Reply #182 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:53:53 PM »

Barbara, to add to your setting out of the motivations behind Honoria's cover up and then killing of all those people... "the man" who raped Honoria was her brother who was mentally retarded. It seems she also was trying to preserve his posthumus reputation as well as her own. For me, the understated way she played the part seemed in character. Her murders were not out of rage. They were calculated in her own delusional way. She felt she HAD to murder each of those people as her adopted daughter was getting closer to the truth and involving more people in possibly discovering her secret.

The plot is a sort of soap-opera "anything weird and bad that can happen, will happen" but, given that, I enjoyed the production and the acting.

marcie · « **Reply #183 on:** July 13, 2009, 03:30:09 PM »

Babi, I agree that Jessie Humbleby's behavior after the death of her doctor husband was REALLY strange. She said she was married "to a clod." It seems that she felt a great release after he died.

Maybe the actress was directed to be so off-the-wall so that we might think she was the murderer.

JoanP · « **Reply #184 on:** July 13, 2009, 03:45:52 PM »

, I found myself wanting to reach out to Honoria at the end. She was so terribly alone - as she must have been all those years with her brother, and then the rape, the baby. And the American woman was that baby! Come to find her mother and she had to meet her father's murderer - and her mother. I don't usually find myself in sympathy with a murderess, but this was an overwhelming burden to bear.

It WAS difficult to follow - there were too many women to keep straight. If I had the book in my hand, I would have been paging back to find out who was who. I'm beginning to think that the books transfer to the screen with difficulty. A. Christie spends more time in her books building up each character than the adapters do in the films...it seems to me.

I purposely did not read the book before viewing the film. Will read the book tonight. It is interesting hearing the different responses to the film - from those who haven't recently read the book.

EvelynMC · « **Reply #185 on:** July 13, 2009, 04:19:36 PM »

I did not read the book so I am not comparing the book to the video.

Once more I enjoyed the clothes, the cars, the make-up and hairdos, the scenery was beautiful, but the play was ....boring? sad? too many murders? I don't know what to say... The actors were not convincing, except for the actor who played Major Horton. He's a good actor and I have seen him in many movies. He's always good.

Oh well, there's always next week and the next play.

JoanP · « **Reply #186 on:** July 13, 2009, 05:31:58 PM »

Evelyn, next week I think we get Joan Collins in her fur coat and tennis shoes. That should be a treat. I read at the start of last night's episode - "based on a novel by Agatha Christie." I wonder if there is a difference between a story based on a novel - and on "adapted" from a novel. I don't know, I'm just asking.

Tell me, was there any character that you felt drawn to, or related to - or enjoyed?

Frybabe · « **Reply #187 on:** July 13, 2009, 06:03:15 PM »

The worst bit of acting in the show had to be, IMO, the American daughter. She showed a singular lack of range of emotion throughout the program. I would have thought that she at least would have registered some intense emotion at discovering her Mother/murderess. It was more like - eh, okay I found out what I wanted to know so I can go now. If the director of the production was happy with these portrayals, then I'd have to say that poor directing certainly didn't not help.

JoanR · « **Reply #188 on:** July 13, 2009, 06:47:22 PM »

Oh well, at least they didn't change the title!! I read the book before the TV show. Not too much resemblance really.

retired · « **Reply #189 on:** July 13, 2009, 08:16:01 PM »

I really forget some of the names of the various characters whwn there are so many.
Starting with the next episode I plan to write down the names of the lead characters so I will not find it as confusing .
What I really found confusing at first was what precipitated the entry of the American girl into the story ? Was she adopted by the first woman who was murdered ?
Could some one clarify this for me.
I think I will need to watch the episodes a second time by watching on line

Babi · « **Reply #190 on:** July 14, 2009, 08:47:10 AM »

GINNY, thanks is due to PAT for the interview with the grandsons, bless her!
As for Agatha Christie's description of Miss Marple, she is described as
having a pink and white complexion and white hair, easily leading people to
assume she was a sweet,fuzzy-headed old lady. That fit Julia very well.
That said, I must admit that Joan Hickson did better fit my idea of
what Miss Marple looked like. Or maybe I developed my bias as to what she
looked like after seeing Joan Hickson?

Here's a picture of her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Hickson

A very good analysis of the situation of the murderess, BARB. I found I
could readily understand her multiple motives for killing her brother, but
not the following murders. As you say, perhaps our modern minds cannot
grasp her desperation, but I am still unable to credit that she would
find four more murders an acceptable response.

" now and then I read a news story that seems more like fiction than reality.."
Ain't it the truth, NL!

JOAN, I'm not sure what you meant by "Miss Marple was not even in this book."
Can you explain that for me?

That's a possibility, MARCIE. Mrs. Humbleby grew increasingly erratic as the
story progressed, and I imagine she would make an interesting case for
psychological analysis. Suppressed wife to antic widow!

JOANP, I do think the Christie books transfer better to a full-length movie.
The 90 minutes framework simply isn't adequate and leaves the viewers more
confused than entertained.

Oh, yes,..Major Horton was good, wasn't he, EVELYN. I thought the young
man who played the ex-policeman and worked with Miss Marple was also good--and I've already forgotten his name! I have to agree with FRYBABE, too, that
the actress playing the adopted daughter didn't come across well, either. I
found it strange that she didn't react more strongly to learning that she was
the product of the rape of a sister by a mentally deficient brother.
I think we would all need a second viewing to get all this straight, RETIRED.
It was the American girl looking for her birth parents who alarmed her mother
into committing all those murders, to conceal the truth.

ginny · « **Reply #191 on:** July 14, 2009, 09:48:09 AM »

Babi, not to belabor Joan Hickson in the role, but here are Hickson and David Suchet on the occasion of Agatha Christie's 100th birthday, in 1990. Hickson was 84 when she and Suchet met for the first time and if you can make out what's being said (which is difficult) you can hear their mutual admiration of each other, and you can see her "deceptively delicate" ways.

You can also see her, born in 1906, in 1987, walking briskly down stairs.

Unfortunately the sound is poor and her fluting perfect pink and fluffy voice is often lost. If you have speakers, now is the time to turn them way up. All the Brits in this one are swallowing their words. The second clip below is clearer if you can't make this one out:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&oi=video_result&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOqp2Xu82PmQ&ei=u4hcSoOkIpHSNdC-sK4C&usg=AFQjCNEwL-7Ci2ft84IkePOcVSBQKl-rMg&sig2=V7uexiGZSlGe1qhlxidYFA

I guess what I like about Hickson is that she did something very few other actresses her age do: she still acted. And with her sharp mind and fluting voice she was Miss Marple, brought her to life. Sort of an inspiration for us in old age. Anglela Lansbury acts still on the stage, is she really 84? Amazing to be doing stage at that age, I am so glad she won a Tony~! She looks much younger.

Hickson looked her age and was marvelous, running up and down those stairs in her 80's, she is the part. Suchet says the same thing.

Barbara, funny you mention Richard Burton. As it happens, I saw his last Camelot performance at Lincoln Center, in fact he fainted on stage two days later, obviously not at all well. I think the producers replaced him with Richard Harris so the tour could continue. I did not know there had been a controversy about the musical over their performances. I have also seen Rock Hudson in that part in summer theater and Robert Goulet as well. Each with his own take, as one might say. The musical itself, in my opinion, would not depend upon the role of Arthur or who played him but rather the music. I can still hear Burton, however, say those lines, say rather than sing as I recall but I could be wrong. I know that Camelot kept being tweaked, but to me it was pretty much the same no matter who did it.

To me, and again I could be wrong, in a musical it's the music which carries the part, not the person singing, tho I have to admit Andrew Lloyd Webber's first casting of Sarah Brightman in the role of the Phantom of the Opera, which he wrote FOR her voice, I think she was his wife at the time, was incredible. Of course in live theater, it's the moment: what this or that actor does at this or that moment which he might not repeat, which makes for the excitement.

Here is a clip of Hickson IN the role of Miss Marple in Nemesis, you can see the strength of the supporting cast, and you can see how she appeared to people as somewhat fuffy and scatty, initially, so they discounted her: really well done in the scene shown here about 3/4ths of the way through (when meeting her niece, who said, "here you are Aunt Jane:" and her response, "Oh....... yes..... well , yes........ yes." Brilliant as Suchet says. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odN9mWXBCc0

Lovely discussion!

joangrimes · « **Reply #192 on:** July 14, 2009, 11:00:22 AM »

Babi,

You asked me to explain my statement about Miss Marple not being in this book. She is not a character in the Book "Murder is Easy". Christie did not put her in this novel. She was added to the story by PBS. I have just read the book. Miss Marple was only a character in 12 full length Christie Novels and numerous short stories.

Here is the list of the novels in which she appeared:

The Murder at the Vicarage (1930)
The Body in the Library (1942)
The Moving Finger (1943)
A Murder is Announced (1950)
They Do It with Mirrors, or Murder with Mirrors (1952)
A Pocket Full of Rye (1953)
4.50 from Paddington, or What Mrs. McGillicuddy Saw! (1957)
The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side, or The Mirror Crack'd (1962)
A Caribbean Mystery (1964)
At Bertram's Hotel (1965)
Nemesis (1971)
Sleeping Murder (written around 1940, published 1976)

Joan Grimes

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #193 on:** July 14, 2009, 11:20:19 AM »

Ginny, Camelot played at the Majestic Theater - I too saw the production and still have the playbill in my memory chest - my children were young and we were visiting from Kentucky and took them as their treat to a place called 'Freedom Land'. I do not believe the original musical played at Lincoln Center -

Richard Harris played Burton's part as King Arthur in the film. Burton only played Arthur for about 6 months and then was hired for Cleopatra - the rest was history of him and Elizabeth Taylor. I do not think it was Harris who replaced him on Broadway but I do not know who was the actor who did replace him.

There was a lot of talk at the time about the difference between Harris' Arthur and Burton's Arthur. Harris had a lighter touch as compared to Burton who was built like an oak tree and of course his distinctive voice while Harris was long and lanky who in comparison seemed like a poet. I guess the common element was they were both heavy drinkers.

And yes, the move production did not change the story however, they did add a few songs that were not in the Broadway play. I am not remembering as clearly but I think I read or heard the additional songs were written for the play and cut when it came to New York after tryouts in Boston.

There were scenes in the movie that could not have been done on stage - like the scene sitting on the grass 'Maying' and the scenes with Guenevere and Lancelot in the river and in front of the fireplace in winter.

I am remembering so often when a book was made into a movie it did not include the entire story or the story was slanted with a different focus and of course the biggie that many an actor did not fit our vision of the character - I remember that being true for Gone With the Wind - there were some of us that ritually read the book every year and when the movie came out we did not go to see it - we could not imagine chunky, rough and tumble Clark Gable as Rhett Butler - believe it or not to this day I have not seen the movie were as long ago I quit re-reading the book.

marcie · « **Reply #194 on:** July 14, 2009, 11:49:00 AM »

Retired, as Babi said, the American girl was looking for her birthmother, who turned out to be Honoria- the one who murdered the others because they might reveal her secret about being impregnated by her brother and giving birth.

When Honoria sent her newborn down the river in a basket, Lydia Horton (who later married the Major--the guy with the mustache), found the baby and gave her to an American couple who were vacationing in the area.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #195 on:** July 14, 2009, 01:01:34 PM »

When Honoria revealed that she had borne a child fathered by her brother, my first feeling was horror. The possibility of dire genetic consequences of a sibling mating are astronomical. Add to that the brother's feeble-mindedness and Honoria's own slender grasp on reality and I would picture anything but the poised woman we saw. Maybe Christie was more tolerant of in-breeding since it was not uncommon among the blue-bloods in Europe. I believe that we Americans seek diversity in our matings as a result of our forefathers' rejection of their narrow opportunities in the old country.

EvelynMC · « **Reply #196 on:** July 14, 2009, 01:30:54 PM »

Ginny, Thanks for the links to the clips of Joan Hickson as Miss Marple and David Suchet as Poirot. She was my all time favorite and when I picture Miss Marple, I always picture her. I never saw "Nemesis" and will have to see if our library has the video. It looks good.

It's a shame that Joan Hickson is longer with us.

JoanP · « **Reply #197 on:** July 14, 2009, 02:15:15 PM »

JoanG - I'm so glad to hear that the film is not based on the book - well, only loosely. And that PBS inserted Miss Marple into Agatha Christie's "Murder is Easy." That really helps me. I have only read the opening chapters of the book, and already was starting to react to the fact that Miss Marple did not meet Miss Fullerton on the train, that in fact, it was the retired police officer - Luke FitzWilliam who met her and heard her story about the murders in Wychwood. In the book he's an older retiree - in the film he looks like a possible suitor for the young American, Briget Conway, doesn't he?

But the real difference is Bridget Conway. In the book shw is a secretary to Lord Easterfield - (Gordon) She grew up on the property that he purchased from her family. Now she is engaged to marry him. That's one way to get back the family homestead! I have no idea where the story is going from here. Will she still be Honoria's daughter? Will Honoria still be the murderess?
Stay tuned!

Seriously, you can't really compare the two. When you read "based on a story by Agatha Christie" it does not mean the story has been transcribed to film as Agatha Christie wrote it.

ginny · « **Reply #198 on:** July 14, 2009, 02:26:21 PM »

Barbara, I'm not sure what you mean here:

Quote

Ginny, Camelot played at the Majestic Theater ....

I assure you Richard Burton's last Camelot, during which he fainted onstage two days later and had to be replaced due to ill health later, was, exactly as I said, at Lincoln Center. The original Broadway debut was 20 years before that.

I also took both my children, from South Carolina, who still remember it but not for the reasons one might assume, as is the wont of children.

Quote

Richard Burton reprised his role as Arthur in a revival that ran during the summer of 1980 at the New York State Theater at Lincoln Center. Christine Ebersole played Guenevere, and Richard Muenz was Lancelot.

Evelyn, wasn't she marvelous? I had thought Nemesis was Cristie's last book on Miss Marple, she wrote one {corrected here} for the last of Miss Marple and one [also corrected] for the last in the Poirot series,, but from what Joan G posted above, it appears she had another one come out as well. I think I still have the original first edition (not that that's anything, we're old enough for everything to be first editions) haha of Nemesis.

Speaking of first editions, I have two first editions (one as a gift from my children) of one of Stephen King's first books (I thought it WAS his first book but it is not! I wonder why it goes for so much)... The Stand, which I am told go for astronomical prices, we all better be careful what we throw out nowadays!

JoanK · « **Reply #199 on:** July 14, 2009, 03:13:07 PM »

GINNY: I don't think she ever killed of Miss Marple, although she did kill of Poirot.

Sigh, I seem to be the only one who can't understand a word Joan Hickson said. And my hering isn't bad! it's still true of that clip of her as Miss Marple, even though I turned the sound way up. I just gave up on even trying to listen to the Joan Hickson movies. And I'll still stick to liking Helen Hayes as Miss Marple in Nemisis!!

I didn't reread the book before seeing the movie, Sunday, and I kept thinking "I don't remember this book" until the hat paint. THAT I remembered! Minor glitch: Marple said the maid would never have picked red hatpaint because it clashes with her red hair. Unless the color is really off on my TV, the maid didn't have red hair!

Another glitch: Honeria looked younger than her daughter!

But I enjoyed the show.

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Author Topic: PBS Masterpiece Mystery! ~ Six by Christie (Read 76384 times)