Science Fiction / Fantasy

[PatH]

Science Fiction / Fantasy

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Welcome to the whole universe!  This is where we gather to share our experiences in science fiction and fantasy.  We like everything, from Gregory Benford to Stephanie Meyer—hard science to magic and fantasy. Come in, sit down with us, and tell us what you are reading or have read, what you like or dislike.

Links: Fantastic Fiction, bibliographies of 30,000 authors

Discussion Leader:  PatH

[PatH]

I'm guessing they would have considered it magic, not something real.  Obsolescence is one of the problems for sci-fi writers.  William Gibson says his books start to be obsolete as soon as they're published.  A big strength for serious sci-fi is it's ability to change the rules--of the universe, current scientific possibility, or human society--and then examine human behavior from different angles than are possible in realistic fiction.  Ursula K. LeGuin is a master at this.

[Frybabe]

Dyson's Spheres have been popping up in SciFi books for a while now. This morning I watched on YouTube a PBS space short, one of a whole series, about the problems associated with trying to build and use a Dyson Sphere. The moderator had a few alternative, but similar constructions to show. Interesting info to keep in mind when reading

The other one I watched this morning was about the feasibility of colonizing Venus, or more precisely, the atmosphere above Venus, rather than Mars. Advantages included distance, gravity comparable to Earth, and radiation protection because Venus has a protective atmosphere. But what would you do floating above Venus? I guess mostly exploration and scientific endeavors, and maybe mining if one could build machinery to withstand the surface of Venus. I still like Mars, though. For a long time now I have thought that Mars is a key to our past and our future.

I am in between good SciFi books right now, concentrating on a spy thriller. The second Odd Thomas is waiting in the wings and I have four more Laiden Universe books ordered.

[PatH]

I hadn't thought about Dyson spheres for a while.  Here's a link for anyone unfamiliar with them.  I agree the engineering and construction problems are formidable, maybe unworkable.

http://earthsky.org/space/what-is-a-dyson-sphere

Another thing I haven't seen lately is O'Niell colonies.  They're the third type in this article:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11351/how-we-could-actually-build-a-space-colony-17268252/

This article has prettier pictures:

http://www.nss.org/settlement/space/oneillcylinder.htm

[PatH]

I agree with you about Mars.  There are so many of us now, that we're either going to trash our planet, regress to some dreadful repressive social system, or spread out into space, and I know which I'd choose.

[Frybabe]

I am reading something called Mars is My Destination by Frank Belknap Long. It was published in 1962 and reminds me of a forties or fifties crime thriller. He did a bunch of Gothic novels, some under the name of Lyda Belknap Long, so that is probably a close description of his writing style at the time this was written.
example: "A slow, hard-to-pin down uneasiness was creeping over me again, as if a pendulum were swinging back and forth somewhere close to me, ticking out a warning in rhythm..."

He was a close friend of H. P. Lovecraft. His awards included the Edna St. Vincent Millay Poetry Award, and two Lifetime Achievement Awards, The World Fantasy Award and the Bram Stoker Award.

I don't recall ever hearing of him or reading any of his works.

[PatH]

I never heard of him either, but I can see he got some of his style from Lovecraft.

[Frybabe]

Got a couple of interesting goodies to report today.

Two Sci-Fi movies coming out in 2017.
Ghost in a Shell is a remake (if you can call it that) of a 1995 animated film which is from a Japanese mange series back when I never heard of the word. This new one is not animated. Scarlett Johansson is in the starring role https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4VmJcZR0Yg

Prityazhenie (tentative English title, Attraction) is a Russian film. It will be released in January in China and Russia only. It looks good. There are several trailers, but this one has English subtitles. I hope it gets released here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bYzbzYOVYY

Two other promising movies out now Life and Passengers.

I gave up on Mars is My Destination. After a few pages, I lost interest.

I am now reading a Science Fiction Romance, believe it or not. Not great, but I'm reading it anyway. A decent alien invasion story, but with it comes with a lot of steamy, hot episodes. The lead guy is a just a teensy bit overprotective of both his girlfriend and his squad mates and blames himself for everything that goes wrong. That should be enough to make me gag and trash the thing, but I haven't. Go figure.

I haven't decided what I am going to borrow from the Lending Library yet. There are a couple of possibilities, including Evan Currie's latest in the Odyssey series and one that is an offshoot of the series. I think I saw something new from Hugh Howey; I'll have to check. Then, for print book reading, I can pick up the next Odd Thomas or go to the Liaden Universe.

[PatH]

I've now read another review of Hag Seed, very enthusiastic, leaving me with the feeling that I ought to try it, but will be totally unable to appreciate the subtleties that the reviewer loved.

[Frybabe]

The other day I got reminded of Two Steps from Hell, not a group but a company which does music for TV and movies, including advertising and trailers. The combo of the music and the art is just awesome in this clip, IMO. It must be the mood I've been in, combined with all the SciFi I've been reading. What an adrenaline rush!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwJj2EpC8vg


I love their logo and motto, "Music Makes You Braver." Their website: http://www.twostepsfromhell.com/  For a list of their movies, go to the menu and click on Credits.

[Frybabe]

Pat, Pat, Pat! I am so excited. Jack Campbell is back writing a new military scifi called Vanguard (The Genesis Fleet). It will be the first of a new series set prior to The Lost Fleet and centers around how the Alliance came to be. The book won't be out until May 16, 2017.

[PatH]

Yay!  I await eagerly.

[Frybabe]

I've just finished the first of the Crimson Worlds series called Marine. I had trouble putting it down. The author, Jay Allan, wrote the first book in the first person with the main (Erik Cain) telling his story. The background of off world fighting and space travel is incidental to the real story. This is mostly about the training, camaraderie, duty and honor, and of the battles and their toll in lives and on the psyche of the participants.

Next is Cost of Victory. Here he is switching up by writing in the second (or is it third) person and focuses on the fleet and Admiral Augustus Garrett. I will shortly find out if this picks up the story where Marine left off in time or it it goes back over the same time span but from the fleet perspective.

Allan has put some real thought into personal and political backgrounds, the dynamics of war and warriors, and the toll it takes on those who fight, both physically and mentally. I am surprised to find no mention of a military background. Instead, I find that his started his writing career in non-fiction, is an investor, and loves to read SciFi.

[Frybabe]

The Cost of Victory(Crimson Worlds 2) is slow going so far. I am not liking the political intrigue so much. All the sneakiness and backstabbing and power grabbing bothers me in this one, perhaps because of the more detailed focus. Politicians, power mongers, spying, and manipulation (and murder) of unknowing innocents is getting to me. Maybe it is a combination of the recent seemingly, undying election and recently finishing two Red Sparrow novels that make this a little too much right now. This series, it turns out, goes on for nine books.

[PatH]

Nine books--everybody can betray everybody else several times over.  I've  never had much taste for too elaborate political intrigues, and end up having trouble keeping the characters straight.  And like you, real life politics has been getting to me.

[Frybabe]

Fortunately, the author is flipping back and forth between the space battles and the political shenanigan's back home. Right now there is an assassination attempt. It seems that one of the power hungry jerks in intelligence deems the admiral and the general, who are considered heroes and have their troops' undeniable loyalty, a threat to the power base back home. The powers that be want to reign in the independent colonists and prevent the space navy and marines from defending the colonists if and when the time comes.

Does all this sound familiar? Shades of this kind of intrigue have been played out in real life over and over again. When I read that the troops were more likely to be loyal to their commanders than earth, I was reminded of the Roman generals and their armies. And don't forget the assassinations of various emperors and kings by their own inner circle and guards.

[Frybabe]

Well, I guess Mr. Allan is a history buff. In the forward to his third Crimson Worlds saga, A Little Rebellion, he says he took his inspiration from the American Civil War and the French Revolution. He hopes to convey the struggle between wanting to keep safe and wanting freedom and the fight for that freedom, the division between family and friends, the lengths people go to salve their consciences or rationalize their decisions, some wanting to believe in falsehoods rather than deal with reality. I must say that this series is well thought out and thought provoking.

[Frybabe]

Pat, I am now reading Little Fuzzy, the whole way through this time. The last time I couldn't get interested. I think reading Scalzi's Fuzzy Nation helped a lot with that.

[PatH]

I read Little Fuzzy eons ago, probably when it first came out, so after reading Fuzzy Nation, I dug out my father's vintage copy and reread it.  It's interesting to compare.  Scalzi modestly says that Piper's book is much better, but I don't think so; I prefer Fuzzy Nation.  I have one of the sequels too--Fuzzy Sapiens--but I didn't bother to reread it.

I've read one of Piper's unrelated books--Space Viking.  It isn't any better than you'd think, with a title like that, and is full of a very elitist political attitude toward the universe.

[Frybabe]

Oh? I didn't know there was a sequel, and I see there is listed in Google there is a whole series of Fuzzy Sapiens.

[Frybabe]

I am now reading something called Out of Edom by J. Patrick Sutton. It is a somewhat complex story that involves those who embrace new tech and those who would ban it beyond a certain level. This includes genetic manipulation and integration of bio-tech as well as A.I., advanced communications, and other advanced tech.

The rulers of the hegemony are split into three branches, civil government, military, and religion (as best as I can tell). Key governmental players are the Auspix (think Pope here) and several of his priests, the head of the Cabil (which I gather is similar to our Congress, but also seems to have something to do with the trade guilds), the Director of Intelligence and his assistant, the Lady of the Admiralty, and a woman who appears to be the of government. The other key players include a not quite normal little boy who is headed towards being the catalyst for what is to come, his uncle, and their small group of friends.

Aside from an unknown outside threat with superior tech, there is also a covert power grab in the works. Meanwhile, the priests are investigating a possible warning of doom to the empire for so many inhabitants falling away from the Proscriptions. The book is written with dialog and narrative interspersed with excerpts from journals, the Commentaries, and Proscriptions (religious book of no-nos), and other "historical" documents. Very interesting, long, a bit confusing as in, hard to keep straight with who is who and what is what. I suspect it will benefit from a second read in the future, but not right away. Did I mention the book is loooong?

[Frybabe]

An interesting quote from J. Patrick Sutton's, Out from Edom: "Every question is a ghost; every answer a chimera." 

I just noticed that Sutton also wrote an earlier series called Tales from the Middle Kingdom which is not medieval but listed, for some reason, as a technothriller/mystery rather than science fiction on Amazon. I recognized the planet name listed as the world setting from Out from Edom and the publication date is prior to Edom. BTW, Edom is another book that spends time with questions of morality, faith/beliefs, discrimination, and the perils and advantages of future tech.

[Frybabe]

More quotes that give pause for thought. From Dean Koontz's Forever Odd, I found these two gems.

"The joys of life can e found anywhere. Far places only offer exotic ways to suffer." For those who have not read Odd Thomas, Odd has very rarely set foot outside of his town limits and never outside of his county.

"This world, which has the potential to be Eden, is instead the hell before Hell. In our arrogance, we have made is so."

[Frybabe]

Just finished Raymond Lalonde's Origins (Spinward Fringe Book 0). Interesting story with lots of action, interesting, mostly likeable characters. I had to suspend my belief to think that a ship would be given to a group of gamers who hacked into fleet training exercises because the commercial games became boring. Some of the hackers were former military or fleet, while others were civilians. They were recruited via the "if you don't join up, you go to jail" pressure. The ending was a good one. I think there are seven books to this series. Unfortunately, the most of villains seemed rather flat, characterwise, and some of them "sounded" much in the same voice (tone?) as the lead character, making it difficult to get a real bad guy feel from them. The other books go off in a direction that in some ways I didn't expect. They appear, from the short descriptions, not to include most or all of the crew of the first book. This series is another with corporate run worlds at war with each other over resources and runaway technology (AI/Clones that have, you guessed it, decided that humans need to be eliminated).

Now I am starting Evan Currie's King of Thieves: Star Rogue which is a spinnoff of his Odyssey series. You might remember that Currie one of my top picks of newish authors. I say newish because he has written enough books now not to be new, IMO.

[Frybabe]

I am finding that I keep being haunted by the ending of Raymond Lalonde's Origins (Spinward Fringe Book 0. It left me somewhat sad. Now I want to know how the lead character fairs in his new life even though it looks like most of the characters in the first book are left behind. I expect the "bad" some of the "bad" characters in the first book will get filled out better in the second. Don't know when I will get to it though.

More on Evan Currie's King of Thieves: Star Rogue . I am a little disappointed with this one. He spends much time explaining gravitational issues like gravitational lensing, paying more attention to related technical and scientific issues than usual (not so much a bad thing, but kind of hard for me to follow, for some reason). More disturbingly, he introduces massive, nasty dragon-like creatures which are taking up a good bit of the story. I am not a fan of space monsters, so don't usually read or watch movies that include them in a major way. The beginning sequence of a rescue attempt to retrieve two marines looks like very like something I read before somewhere. Most of the action takes place in the interior of a man-made moon and in the dark. Bumping into scary monsters, in the dark is too close to childhood nightmares. Maybe that is why I normally  stay away from horror stories.

[Frybabe]

I went and bought the next Spinward Fringe book which has the next two stories in it, and two more of J. Patrick Sutton's Irredente Chronicles series. I really didn't want to add them to my once a month borrow list because I already have a bunch stacked up.

[Frybabe]

Okay, gang. I'm feeling mighty lonesome over here.

I just finished the second of J. Patrick Sutton's Irredente series. What a far ranging set of circumstances and characters that all seem to be intertwined. Sutton frequently uses words like obtuse, abstruse, and obfuscate which pretty much describes the whole. People and things are starting to come together, here at the end of book two.

Now I need to go catch up with Cranford before I dig into Sutton's third book, which is probably just as lengthy and  commanding of attention as the other two.

[PatH]

Mostly it's just the two of us now, and I'm mostly rereading things before going to sleep. 

I saw the new Star Wars movie, Rogue One.  If you like that sort of thing it's pretty good, a prequel to the original Star Wars movie, episodeIV.  It's hard to keep the factions straight, and the air battles are pretty confusing, but the story is good, and it has some of the feel of the early movies.  I saw it with my SIL, who had already seen it, and he found a lot of things clearer the second time.

[Frybabe]

Remember when I talked about John Scalzi's book, Locked In? BBC News has an article about new progress in helping people with Locked-In Syndrome. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-38761461 I am very excited about this development.

Also, I watched a YouTube video of a person operating a robotic hand via a band connecting his arm to his prosthetic lower arm.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk1NkWl_W2Y There are more clips of various robotic prostheses, including, if I remember correctly one about making these things on 3-D printers.

[Frybabe]

I have finally finished with the three tome Irredente trilogy. The author is/was a lawyer, so that probably explains his love of obscure, arcane, esoteric, obsolete words, as well as some Latin. I noted that many of the ships were named after Roman or Greek characters. One of the characters had a name very Welsh/Celtic sounding and some of the characters ended sentences with the word "like" just as my cousins did when I visited them way back when. The "sailors" often sounded like caricatures of old sea films. Vague references, mostly by other names, to our myths and religious history were sprinkled throughout. The last few chapters of the third book seemed a bit rushed compared to the rest of the story. The Epilog was mostly a fizzle and unnecessary as far as I am concerned. I am sure I missed a whole lot in the telling. If I really want to spend the time (my e-reader said about 33 hours per book at my reading speed) I think it worth rereading. Some of the ideas/philosophies taken up in the book include the use of technology so advanced nobody knows how it truly works, sentient or sentient-like computers, bio-mechanics, genetics and genetic manipulation (the promise and the abuse there of), compassion and tolerance of the others, some called non-conforms, from birth defects and accidents to the genetically manipulated. Bravo to Mr. Sutton for such an engrossing, and not tedious, story.

[PatH]

Locked-In syndrome seems like a truly terrifying thing.  I wonder if knowing someone with it sparked Scalzi to write the book?

The Irredente trilogy sounds like the sort of thing I like, but it's a formidable time investment.  I didn't know e-readers estimated reading time--useful.

In  the Cranford discussion we talked about sesquipedalian (using big words).  I'm definitely sesquipedalian, and have even used that word in conversation, though only with equally sesquipedalian relatives.

[Frybabe]

I can have my Paperwhite give me the time left in the book, the percentage of the book read, or the location of the book. It doesn't hold its setting very well though. I notice, especially when I change chapters, it wants to go blank or set itself to another setting. Don't know why it does that. The setting on my Paperwhite is in with the fonts settings.

I couldn't find any reference to Scalzi knowing anyone with Locked-In Syndrome when I looked it up a while back. I keep thinking the title to the book is Locked-In, but it is in fact, Lock-In. Anyway, I still can't find any reference to what inspired Scalzi to write the book. Someone probably asked that in one of the extended talks/interviews on YouTube, etc., but I am not going to watch them all to find out. I did, however, discover that he made his lead character gender neutral. I hadn't noticed, when I read it, that he never mentioned whether Chris was female or male. Oh, and I discovered that back in 2014 or 2015, some outfit called Legendary TV bought the rights to make thin into a TV show. Haven't heard a peep since. Will check it out on IMDB in a bit.

Well, I am all set for the next Amazon Lending Library scifi read, books 4-6 of the Crimson Worlds series by Jay Allan. In the next few books, the space Marines will be fighting robotic forces. This is a development which, the author says, was not in his original plans for the series. Meanwhile, I must catch up with Cranford - again.

[PatH]

Interesting--I didn't notice either. What does it say that I thought Chris was male?

[PatH]

We're going to read the remainder of Cranford,and talk about it as we want.  I still have stuff to say about this section.

[Frybabe]

I assumed it was a male too. The article I read, by Scalzi himself, I think, said that most men thought it the character was a male while quite a few women thought it was a woman. He chose the name Chris because it was ambiguous.

I thought I saw the Legendary logo before, this bunch has been busy with some good TV shows and movies under their belt, including The Great Wall and Colony but not a peep on their site about Lock-In since they bought the rights. I guess either they are sitting on it or no one was interested in it as a TV show.

[Frybabe]

I miss Steph! Today I drove down a road I haven't been on for a while. There, in front of the horse stable, instead of a sign with a horse on it was a Corgi, big as you please. Now I am wondering if the horses are out and Corgis are in. I will have to look carefully the next time I go by if there isn't any traffic to watch.

[PatH]

I miss Steph too.  I wish I thought she'd come back, but I don't.  SeniorLearn was a cozy comfortable place for her, and when it went through a short crabby phase she kind of got caught in the crossfire, and I think that spoiled it for her.

I enjoyed hearing about her corgis and her walks, and her house on the hill, and she had a different set of sci-fi interests that rounded out things here.

Horses to corgis is a big change.

[Frybabe]

I'll have to take a closer look next time. There weren't any horses or dogs out when I went by. The place sits on a rather rather steep slope that the occupants had been steadily modifying to make it more level,  or at least, less steep. I see they've added a gate at the road end, done some paving and generally improved the place for both horses and humans. I always thought it was a strange bit of land to put horses on if you wanted to do any training or real exercising.

Ok, back on to off-world interests. I ran across a quick rundown on Space Law, yesterday, on You Tube. When I did a search, I came up with a bunch more, so you know what I will be doing this morning. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Space+law The gist of what I saw was that the treaties and what have you have been around a bit longer than I thought (owing mostly to forgetting just how long I've been around  ). Anyhow, no one appears to have thought about private enterprise. All the treaties, etc. are geared to governments. While governments can't claim any of the property for their own, mining resources and such are either allowed or not addressed. Now that the likes of SpaceX and others are in the game, I am sure the implications and work arounds are not lost on the government. I expect that the treaties are going to have to be reworked and that we will regardless, as is with humans, have future conflicts leading to skirmishes, and it wouldn't surprise me, wars.

[PatH]

Yes, no sci-fi fan would be surprised at wars.

Frybabe, we're trying to decide on the next book discussion.  Can you think of any sci-fi books that would be of fairly general interest, and have enough meat for a discussion?

[Frybabe]

Well, let me think on it. But here are a few thoughts:

Remnant Population by Elizabeth Moon. You've heard me describe and heartily recommend this one before. Here is a review https://www.sfsite.com/05b/rem33.htm Still, I don't know if we can make a whole four weeks of it.

A Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood. I won't be surprised if you tell me it has already been discussed. Hulu is going to be running, beginning in April, a 10 part miniseries. I don't get Hulu, so won't see it, but I did read the book and saw the movie which starred Natasha Richardson, Faye Dunaway, and Robert Duvall. I actually liked the style of the movie better. The book is written like a diary which was found some time after the events.

Is Cloud Atlas too long and maybe a little confusing?

Too bad the Irredenti series I just finished is sooooo long. Each book is a tome. Lots to dig into regarding religion, morals, ethics, genetic manipulation and bio-mechanics, politics, tolerance, and such. Yes, there is some military conflict but it is not the main thrust of the books.

I don't think people are likely to want to read something like Ender's Game or The Dispossessed or Dune right now. Too much conflict, too much dark moodiness. So I am looking for something upbeat and or brighter future types, like some of Arthur C. Clarke's works.

This is not real easy is it? To find a book that has enough substance, too narrowly focused, and not with a lot of technical stuff, worthy of a month long discussion. Heck, there are people who couldn't get through The Martian because they thought it was too technical. They haven't read technical until they've tried to read Neal Stephenson's SevenEves.

Has anyone read The Speed of Dark by Elizabeth Moon? It is one I have been wanting to read and, thought I bought already, but I guess not. http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-345-44755-5 This will definitely be of interest to those who are interested in or have relatives or friends who are autistic.

I'll keep thinking.