Non-Fiction

[Babi]

 

TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK

What are you reading?  Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?

Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it. 

Let's talk books!

Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold

 "Klein's gem" does at least tell us your comments will be positive, JIM. I'll be interested
to see more on the subject...at least who the 'amateur' is.

  Thanks for the tip, TOME. It had not been at all clear to me precisely what kind of book
"Adventures..." was, but if it is primarily commentary on the books of 'everybody' I will
not bother. By the way, I think the proper pronunciation if 'fuhgiddaboutit'. Pure Brooklyn!

  I have often found I get a clearer view of the history of a period through fiction than
non-fiction. A good historical fiction writer can give you the contemporary perspective as
well as make the history lesson more enjoyable.  It just happened again, with Anne Perry's
recent book, "Dorchester Terrace".  The book is set in London in the waning days of the
Austro-Hungarian Empire. I now have a much better grasp of the situation in Europe at that
time and Austria's importance as a central core where many varying peoples, cultures, religions
and languages could deal with one another. As it collapsed, WWI was almost inevitable.

[mabel1015j]

The review from the NYT of The Amateur was strange. It told very little about the book, talked mostly about the author, so i didn't get a sense of how positive or negative it might be. Of course, knowing about Klein does presuppose that it's negative. My belief is that every president is an amateur, there is just no job like it and it's an "on-the-job-training" situation. I think some presidents have more of a knack for politics than others, or personalities that lend themselves, for better or worse, to the job.

I'm amazed at how opponents of Obama can be totally blind to the fact that the Republican House has not just opposed Obama but has blocked everything he's tried to do, that they appear to have no concern for the country, only concern for their party. I understand their belief in a different agenda, that's always been true of oppositions. But the moderates of both parties have generally continued to allow the goverment to operate, that's just not happening. I think the voters must try to figure out what the administration has done outside of the tact of law-making and judge the administration from that small perspective.

Jean

[Babi]

  I appreciate that post, JEAN.  I am very much at sea in the world of politics,  so I haven't been
aware that the Republicans had a large enough majority to impede the President in everything.
I have been aware that the focus of today's politicians seems to be 'power to the party' rather
than true commitment to the welfare of the country.   The obvious solution, for those of us who
support Pres. Obama, is to see that he has more support for the next term.  I have never voted
along strict party lines,  preferring to take a more independent approach in my choices.  However,  this might be one election in which support for the President might be the #1 priority.

[marjifay]

Does anyone besides me read The Borowitz Report by Andy Borowitz in the New Yorker? Radical Republicans probably won't find the satire of it amusing, but as a Democrat I often find it hilarious.  Speaking of the Republican Convention, today's report was "War on Women Postponed to Tuesday due to Hurricane Isaac." 

Speaking of the politcal conventions, today's are so boring.  No suspense.  You already know who's going to be the nominees.  I remember when they were fun to watch.  When it took maybe five votes to decide who would be the presidential or vice presidential nominee. 

Marj

[JoanK]

On a completely different note, I'm reading "What the Robin Knows" by Jon Young. It is a primer on how to watch nature in such a way that you become part of the world band understand its rhythms, triumphs and tragedies.

[Babi]

  That sounds really interesting, JOANK.  I can easily sink into a contented contemplation of
trees and be hypnotized by the sunlight and shadow on the leaves as the breezes blow through.

[BarbStAubrey]

Never did finish it but read it most of it in a book store - I thought the bit about the porpoise gathering fish next to a boat disrupting the sea and the birds following the tractor for plowed up goodies was the animal kingdom's version of Shock Doctrine 

Any book about birds always reminds me of an appointment years ago with a women wanting to sell her deceased Aunt's Condo and in the middle of chatting at her kitchen table I hear birds - look around and cannot figure it out since it was dark outside and the birds were definitely not the sound of a house bird - she noticed my reaction and laughed - she had one of the clocks that on the hour a different bird song fills the air. Later I realized what a great way to learn the song of at least 12 birds.

[dbroomsc]

No one has posted to this site in some time, so I thought I would tell about a book I'm currently reading.  The title is "Manhunt" subtitled The Ten-Year Search for Bin Laden From 9/11 to Abbottabad by Peter L. Bergen.  Peter is CNN's national security analyst and a director of the New American Foundation.  He has written three previous books on Bin Laden and al-Qaeda.  The title "Manhunt" is not to be confused with an earlier book with the same title by James L. Swanson about the search for Lincoln's killer.  I can recommend both books as excellent reads.

[marjifay]

I haven't read Manhunt yet, Dean, but put it on my TBR list after your review. And I also have Swanson's book about the hunt for Lincoln's killer on my list.

I read a very good book not long ago about the bin Laden family, GROWING UP BIN LADEN; OSAMA'S WIFE AND SON TAKE US INSIDE THEIR SECRET WORLD by Omar bin Laden and Najwa bin Laden.   Fascinating story told by Osama's cousin who became his first wife, and their 4th son, Omar.  Osama was a very strange man.  17 children by 4 wives.  Kept his home very bare and without any "luxuries" like electricity (Mohammed lived without it, he said).  He allowed no toys for his children; took his sons on long hikes in the desert with no water to toughen them up; denied them medical inhalers, altho the boys all had breathing problems with asthma.  Yet he bought himself the newest Mercedades-Benz cars to satisfy his craving for fast driving.  

Marj

[marjifay]

Hasn't anyone read any good nonfiction books lately?

I have a couple I plan to read, once I get finished with Hilary Mantel's Bring Up the Bodies (very good historical fiction):

THE REVENGE OF GEOGRAPHY; WHAT THE MAP TELLS US ABOUT THE COMING CONFLICTS by Robert D. Kaplan.  I found his BALKAN GHOSTS very interesting.  Keplan talked about his newest book on BookTV last weekend.  A very interesting speaker, he made me want to read his book.  One thing I remember was his telling why Israel is so determined that Iran doesn't get the ability to deploy a nuclear bomb.  Kaplan said that a nuclear hit on an Amercan or Iranian city, although devastating would not be the end of these countries.  However, with Israel about the size of New Jersey, it would not recover from such a hit.

TEARS IN THE DARKNESS; THE STORY OF THE BATAAN DEATH MARCH AND ITS AFTERMATH by Michael Norman.  This was recommended in another group.  However, I just finished Laura Hillenbrand's book, Unbroken, about a man's horrific trials in a Japanese POW camp, and while it was a very interesting booK,  it will be a while until I'm up to another about the Japanese in WW2.

THE LOST BANK; THE STORY OF WASHINGTON MUTUAL--THE BIGGEST BANK FAILURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY by Kirsten Grind.  I heard the author on BookTV, and the story was a fastinating one.

Marj

[BarbStAubrey]

I've been reading several books about the ancients so to speak - I became curious when I realized and wanted to know why Germany was only unifying in the mid-nineteenth century when France not only unified a few centuries earlier, I'm still scrounging for exactly when, but more, France already had in the late eighteenth century a major revolution temporarily changing the system from a monarchy - how did France become a unified nation with its own identity centuries before Germany, an adjacent land and people, and they were only attempting to do this in the mid nineteenth century.

Quickly it became apparent that the difference in being part of the Roman Empire as opposed to those who most of us were taught were the Barbarians was a factor - so back to the time in history when these so called Barbarians were breaking down the so called gates of Rome.

That was an eye opener in itself that the fall of Rome took over 100 years - and so I have been reading books - and more books -

The Cambridge Illustrated History of Germany -
Gregory of Tours The History of the Franks -
History of the Goths -
The History of the Lombards -
The Carolingian World -
The Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Fall of Prussia -
Before France and Germany: The Creation and Transformation of the Merovingian World -
The Austrians: A Thousand-Year Odyssey -
Early Medieval Europe, 300-1000 -
Western Society and the Church in the Middle Ages -
The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity -
Religious Poverty and the Profit Economy in Medieval Europe -
The Knight, the Lady and the Priest: The Making of Modern Marriage in Medieval France -
God's Crucible: Islam and the Making of Europe, 570-1215

I know - how can she be reading that many books at one time - weelll - I read and there is something I need to know more about and so another book is ordered and I read - then go back to the first book and read more and back and forth between these books as I piece it all together - I didn't want an overview provided by an online article or one history that hits just the author's idea of the high spots plus most authors I find are writing from a viewpoint of their research and chronological history where as I was trying to follow a thread of how did lands located next to each other within the borders we associate with these two powerful nations come to unify and then become democratic with such a dramatic difference in timing.

Of course the early history quickly gets into the Holy Roman Empire and the as I call it the pimping by the Monarchs for the Church and the Church for the Monarchs - interesting when we read The Elephant's Journey, King João III of Portugal suggests he cannot read a message from the Archduke Maximilian that at the time I thought it meant he could not read Latin, the language of Art, Law and the Courts - well it turns out he may not have been able to read at all - that was one of the reasons all these monarchs, up through the seventeenth century, had churchmen running their chancelleries, cabinets, especially the office that collected taxes. The monarchs could not read! Fight wars, yes - Read, no!

Turns out many of the monasteries were set up by the monarchs as places for tax collecting, sorting and building the war chest. Another bit, the Church from its conception believed in education - I could go on and on with new knowledge how and why -  and so they were needed to write laws, and run the government - and yet another, I finally found the first and reason for a monarchs to be crowned by the Roman Church and actually in partnership with the Church, in many cases their relationship was like a protectorate (think Puerto Rico) by the Church.

Goes back to the magic believed to be breed into the Merovingian royals and in order to top that magical blood so that a more 'with-it' group could take over, Pepin a Carolingian gets Rome to crown him as king - then he gathers other areas so he could be more important and called Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire therefore, he could be on equal footing with the Byzantine Empire. During the Middle Ages the whole of the powerful in the west was in competition and at times at war with the Byzantine arm and beliefs of the Church. Was Jesus God and Man or just God or just Man - based on your belief you were either in the Roman or Byzantine branch of the church or if you lived in the west and believed God either just God or just a man you were a Heretic doomed to be extinguished. This is state stuff not just church stuff.

This concept of church being the state and the state being the church is so foreign to us that it is difficult to grasp until I start looking closer at the news coming out of the middle east - that has been my benchmark to understand. I had no clue how culturally rich, distinct and intelligent were the group we lumped as Barbarians. The Celts are another whole branch of all this but they moving west across northern Europe did not put as big a thumb print on the land today we call Germany.

This is fascinating stuff and I love knowing how come and when and how did that happen and where did that come from.

[JoanK]

WOW!

I'm browsing through a book called "The English Wars" about the development of the English Language. too much detail to hold my intersest, but the subject is interesting, first in how English replaced french as the official language in Britain (I'd like to read more on that. He treats English as if it was a given language at this point: I always thought it was a mix of the languages before the Norman Conquest and french from the Normans. I wonder what proportion of English words have french (Latin) roots.

He also discussed attempts to reform English spelling (he's against it) and grammar. With grammar he argues that grammarians teach English grammer as if it was Latin. But since English is not an inflected language like Latin (E relies on word order rather than different endings to tell you the function of the word) you don't need all that analysis to make a clear sentance.

[marjifay]

Interesting posts, Barb and JoanK.  I know what you mean, Barb, about one book or subject leading to another and pretty soon you have a whole bunch of them you're looking at.  I wish I'd had a better background in world history. Can't believe I didn't take one course in it in high school or university.   Right now I'm taking a long time reading Bring up the Bodies because the Tudor period is so interesting, and I keep looking things up.

Joan, I'm for changing some English spelling too, but I'm afraid it will not happen.  One word that irritates me is "read," being the same for present and past tense.  And a whole bunch of others that must confuse people no end who are trying to learn our language.

Marj

[JoanK]

" And a whole bunch of others that must confuse people no end who are trying to learn our language."

Oh, yes! I would hate to have to learn English as a second language!

[marjifay]

I'm currently reading an interesting nonfiction book, BAILOUT by Neil Barofsky, (236 pp) re Barofsky's appointment as special inspector general in charge of oversight of the spending of the government bailout money, and how his efforts to protect against fraud were met with outright hostility from the Treasury officials in charge of the bailouts. The stories he tells are fascinating, about his former job as a U.S. Attorney, where in Colombia he was putting together a case against the FARC narcotics terrorist group and how he missed being killed when they put a hit on his life, and stories of his job Washington  What an eye opener about what goes on there in Washington!   A page turner.

Marj

[Babi]

 Hardly surprising, tho', MARJ.  Wouldn't it be a wonder of miraculous proportions, if we could remove greed
and the lust for power from the halls of government.  Of course, that removes any motivation for most of
humanity to take on that heavy chore.   

[mabel1015j]

I'm reading two very good non-fiction books.

Coco Channel:an intimate life by Lisa Chaney and Setting a Course: Amer'n Women in the 1920s. ed. Dororthy Brown which turns out to be one of a series about women in each of the decades of the twentieth century, a project of the Schlesinger Library at Radcliff. I know our library doesn't have them all, but i will be asking for them to do an interlibrary search for me - one at a time, of course

 Interesting bit of onfo: Chanel had started to make her "practical" less ornate clothes in the pre WWI era, they were generally considered "sporty". When WWI began and materal was less available and rich people wanted to dress with less ostentation her clothes were perfect, so she made a bundle of money during the war and her reputation exploded.

I'm also reading Clara and Mr Tiffany - don't know how i missed the discussion a few months ago, altho i'm reading thru the discussion now -  it is fiction, but of the similar time as the two books above. One of the links that is in the discussion was how bicycles brought women a feeling of control and freedom. Isn't that an interesting thought?

The 20s book is talking about how the pro-protective labor legislation for women was disputed by women's groups in favor of equality w/ men. The pro legislation group feared an Equal Rights Amendment would take away labor rts that women had won - 91/2 hr day, no working between 12:00 and 6:00 am, etc. the pro ERA people argued that some of thse jobs were the best paid and women may lose jobs if the protective legislation was in place. It was an interesting dispute, i'm not sure which side i wld have been on at the time. Of course, much of the protective legislation that was first put in place for women was eventually applied to all workers.

[Babi]

 JEAN, I wonder how they managed to decide in which decade each woman should be featured.
After all, most of them must have had active lives spanning more than one decade.

[mabel1015j]

Babi - it's focused on events and individual woman are discussed based on their involvement in events of the time. I.e. the first chapters were about women and politics after having won the vote; the next section was about women and work; the current section i'm reading is about women and domesticity. I think it's very interesting.

 I know most of the info on a superficial basis and in some depth due to my women's history studies. But every book i read, i learn something new or a new perspective on what i know.

Jean

[Babi]

 Ah, I see. That's a sensible way to approach it.  How did you first become interested in women in history and society, JEAN?
It appears to have been a lifelong interest.  I've noted how many of the very intelligent people here have some particular
subject or venue that is a paticular focal point for them.

[mabel1015j]

I think my interest in women's her-stories is innate, if that is possible. I use that term "herstory" because i really see history as stories of people. As i think back, my first "women stories" were read in the Nancy Drew mysteries. I remember during my sophomore year in high school reading a novel about Josephine - Napoleon's wife. I was very interested in history. My parent's were 50 and 42 when i was born, so my father had been in WWI, They survived the Depression, and talked a lot about FDR and Truman and what was happening in politucal events. I majored in history in college.

The distinct time of my interest in women, of course, began in the 60s. My husband(whom i met in 1961) says i was always a feminist, but i began to hear the swirl of info around me from the media about the contemporary women's movement. Specifically, in 1970, i had to quit teaching at four months of pregnancy - altho i strung it out to 6 months - and was at home, bored to death. I went to the county library and began to read through the bios of women. Here i was, a graduate w/ a degree in history, had taught high school history for 7 years, using the typical high school history texts and other than wives of presidents knew only about a dozen names of women in Amer history.

I found women i had never heard of - Emily Green Balch, the first Amer'n WOMAN NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER, along w/ Jane Addams who i knew as the founder of Hull House, but NEVER heard she was a NPP winner !?! I learned about Elizabeth Blackwell, first woman graduate of medical school in the US, i learned abt two Josephine Bakers - one a famous self-made singer/dancer of the early 20th century, the other another early women physician who started the concept of school nurses, princably to catch epidemics as they began, and on and on. And i've never stopped learning women's history.

Fortunately i've lived my last 4 decades in a time when historians have been digging up and writing, or rewriting about women throughout history. How wonderful!

Jean

[serenesheila]

Jean, thanks for your post.  I discovered women's history in the 60s,too. It was never taught in my education classes.  What little I did know was acquired from reading, and movies.  A few years ago my grandaughter wrote a paper on Alice Paul.  I had never heard of her.  I think it is disgraceful, that until the 1960s, women's history was totally ignored, in our educational system.

Sheila

[JoanP]

Jean, while reading your post - on how your interest in women's history was born, researching biographies during your pregnancy, my curiosity makes me ask - was the baby a girl?

[mabel1015j]

Yes, Joan, as a matter of fact it was, a beautiful, good, baby girl who sleep thru the night at 3 months, was never seriously sick, didn't go thru the terrible twos.......i was afraid to have a second one, i just knew i'd have to pay my dues.  That one was a boy and other then having some allergies and not sleeping thru the night for almost a year, was a pretty good child also.

Our daughter, JoEllyn, grew up to join the Alice Paul Institute Board of Directors and since she is in banking became the treasurer of the board - made Mom very proud that she would follow my interest. As a Senior v.p. at her bank she mentors young women in their careers. BTW, both children went w/ me to the press conference of our first big event in 1985, Alice Paul's centennial year, where Sally Ride was one of the honerees, and they met Sally Ride.

Our son is a high school teacher and football coach and two years ago had a girl on his team who he played in two of their games. Even though he coaches football, basketball is his first love and he is a big fan of Pat Summit, coach of the Lady Volunteers of Tennessee, Maryz' favorite team.

We're Very proud of both of them.

[JoanK]

You should be. (I'm a big fan of Pat Summit, too.

I've been watching the women's pro basketball playoffs. One athelite, when interviewed, said that when she was a child, before the pro league, she had no one to look up to as a role model. So she was very proud when she looked in the stands and saw so many young girls with their basketball shirts on.

[JoanK]

A book that gives wonderful stories of women who have succeeded against incredible odds is "Half the Sky". It's proposed for our November book. I really recommend it! It talks about the unbelievably horrible conditions that women face in some developing countries, but does so by telling stories of individual women who overcame those conditions to help other women.

[maryz]

And we got to watch two of our favorite Lady Vols in the WNBA playoffs last night - Kara Lawson and  Tamika Catchings.  It's a shame one of them had to be on the losing team.

Hooray for your son, Jean - having girls on his teams. 

[Babi]

 My first baby, also a girl, was also easy to care for.  Unlike you, I did not have the
sense to fear this wasn't a norm. I thought,  "Hey, there's nothing to this!"  Then I
had two more children and became a wiser woman. My second...also a boy...was colicky to
the point my husband threatened to go to a hotel so he could get some sleep.
  Today, however, I am blessed with three loving, caring children.  Worth every minute of it.

[JoanK]

Babi: and it was my girl who was colocky. I remember my husband and I congradulating ourselves that we had had three hours sleep the night before -- the most we had had in two weeks!

If he had said "Bye, I'm going to a hotel, I would have either divorced him or murdered him! the only thing that saved me is that he could spell me sometimes.

[Babi]

 He didn't actually go, JOAN.  He was just griping. I could certainly sympathize with that!
 

[maryz]

I'm reading an interesting book about the Dust Bowl.  It's The Worst Hard Times: the untold story of those who survived the great American Dust Bowl by Timothy Egan .  I knew there was such a thing, of course, but this really brings this to life.  I had no idea how much of the whole thing was man-made. 

[mabel1015j]

Mary can you explain a little about it being "man-made"?

Jean

[maryz]

The prairie had lasted forever through winds,drought, floods, fires, etc.  When the settlers came in and started to plow up the prairie grasses, at first they had good crops.  Then as prices went up, speculators got involved and got people to plow up more and more of the prairie.  Once all the native grasses were gone, there was nothing to hold the soil in place when the inevitable droughts happened.  And then there was a terrible multi-year drought, and all the soil blew away. 

This was the stuff of John Steinbeck's book, The Grapes of Wrath; when a lot of those folks fled to CA, etc. 

[mabel1015j]

Thanks for that info, Mary. I thought that's what had happened, but just wondered if there was new information.

Jean

[marjifay]

Timothy Egan's book, The Worst Hard Time, (340 pp, 2006) will be discussed in November in the Yahoo book discussion group, All_Nonfiction.  They always have a lively discussion.   I'm planning to read it.

Marj

[maryz]

The book mentions a documentary that was made called "The Plow that Broke the Plains".  It's available from Netflix as part of a series of documentaries about the Depression.  I've ordered it and moved it to the top of my list.

[ginny]

Thank you for that, Mary,  it's on YouTube,  too and is most interesting.  I've been wanting to read that book for ages.  They keep saying another Dust Bowl is coming.   I hope your surgery goes well, I hate to think of you in pain all this time since your accident.

[maryz]

Thanks for the good wishes, ginny (and everybody else).  It doesn't hurt most of the time, but I'm very careful about what I do.  And my range of motion is very limited.  The replacement should increase the motion - not to what it was before - but at least better.  Anyhow, I'm ready!

[mabel1015j]

I finished the Coco Chanel book, what an interesting story. Chaney jam packed it with detail, writing in small print for 400 pages. Coco had very different responses to the two WW's. As i said earlier she was well positioned with her clothes to make money during the 1st WW. In the second she, of course, had to move out of Paris, so she closed her clothing shop, leaving only a shop for her jewelry and perfumes, even though the authorities begged her to stay to give her employees jobs and basically shut down business, making little money.

She was an interesting woman who would be called independent, but it was
an independency of societal mores. She was smart about using male friend's, often lover's, money to get her business started and then to expand. I guess if she was a man we would call it capitalism and good use of invester's money.

She knew many interesting European people of the mid-19th century - Stravinsky, Picasso, etc. some of whom were lovers of hers.

Jean

[mabel1015j]

Just another note on Coco Chanel......one of the most interesting parts of the book was the description of occupied France in WWII and the decisions that people made, whether to stay or leave, whether to have interaction with the Germans particularly a problem for business people, whether to give info to either the Nazis or the allies. And then there was the reaction from the rest of society, which could be positive or negative, regardless of which decision was made. Coco rode sort of a middle road, i won't spoil it for you in case you want to read it. But it is interesting to contemplate what decisions i would make to survive.