Author Topic: Non-Fiction  (Read 254171 times)

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8494
  • Life is finding the magic that makes our soul soar
    • Two Sisters and a Hound!
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2920 on: March 01, 2017, 12:00:48 PM »
I hope I did this correctly - here is the link to our discussion for Clara...

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=2234.0

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8613
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2921 on: March 02, 2017, 03:47:56 PM »
JEAN: ". The people who say they don't like [Hilary] .. seem to be in the political opposition, or have gendered comments to make about her like "she's aggressive.."

  had the opportunity to see Hilary in person. She walks like a man, long, confident strides (actually, few men I know walk that way now). I remember thinking "I'll bet a lot of men react against that, feeling she's aggressive." We women are supposed to take little mincing steps in our tight skirts and high heels.

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8494
  • Life is finding the magic that makes our soul soar
    • Two Sisters and a Hound!
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2922 on: March 02, 2017, 05:20:02 PM »
Oh my - I guess we all have our reasons - the way she walks was the least of my concerns or that she was aggressive - for me it was how the party ignored the 48% of the elected delegates to the convention last summer - seeing it directly from hand held cameras floored me that anything like that could even happen - so I ran from Hillary and the party that I voted for even when everyone went for Reagan - all my life and my mother's life we stuck to the Dems like glue but last summer I ran - the Green got me only because I did not know what to do... aggressive is one thing but that was beyond even my imagination and then to learn what other party heads were up to - whow - so no, nothing as what I would consider petty like how she walks or sits or talks or tweets that seem to catch the attention of so many. 

rosemarykaye

  • Posts: 2631
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2923 on: March 06, 2017, 11:23:44 AM »
I have heard the same thing here - a friend really quite surprised me when she said she would never vote for Nicola Sturgeon 'because I'd never vote for anyone who dresses that badly'.

I must say I was shocked. I didn't for one minute think that this particular friend would ever be pro-Scottish National Party, but I never expected that to be why! She also said she had no time for Angela Merkel (German Chancellor) for the very same reason. And this friend is a highly educated professional person.

i hope I've taught my daughters to make their minds up - whatever their conclusions may be - by considering policies and behaviour, not appearances and 'dress sense'.

Rosemary

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 9472
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2924 on: March 12, 2017, 03:18:36 PM »
For the next book discussion, we would really like to do Hidden Figures, the story of the invisible Black women mathematicians whose work was crucial to the space program, getting men to the moon.

The problem is availability.  The libraries we've checked have long waiting lists, though shorter for ebook and big print, and used availability is low.  Amazon has the paperback for under $10, kindle for 11, and a few "new" books for $5.  Abe Books and Alibris were no better.

Would anyone who might want to discuss the book take a look and see if it's available to you at acceptable terms or wait times and let us know?  (Watch out for the Young Readers edition, which is mixed in with the regular one.)

We were aiming for April 1, but can shift later if needed.

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8169
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2925 on: March 12, 2017, 05:35:13 PM »
Wow! I just checked my library system. We have 13 copies with 40 on hold of the print version, the eBook version has 68 copies on hold, there are two more print versions and one CD version on order.

rosemarykaye

  • Posts: 2631
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2926 on: March 12, 2017, 06:55:38 PM »
It is still on order in our libraries, so no copies actually available.

Rosemary

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8494
  • Life is finding the magic that makes our soul soar
    • Two Sisters and a Hound!
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2927 on: March 12, 2017, 09:45:45 PM »
Next thing to calculate is how long do these borrowed books stay in the hands of one person - there are 6 weeks till May - how many on the list of waiting do you think could have read and returned the book in the next 6 weeks and are we willing to purchase the book resale which is usually fewer dollars, even with delivery than buying new.

Please be hones on the idea of a purchase - to join I think I would according to how much the resale costs but not willing to pay full price because I do not see the book as a keeper - could be wrong but that is where I am now without having read the book.

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8494
  • Life is finding the magic that makes our soul soar
    • Two Sisters and a Hound!
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2928 on: March 12, 2017, 09:53:02 PM »
hmmm the paper back on Amazon is $9.59 with Prime free delivery - the least expensive resale is $4.99 + shipping that is $3.99 adds up to 61 cents less than buying new with a longer delivery time - hmmm

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 9472
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2929 on: March 13, 2017, 12:55:11 PM »
Oops. I meant to say we were aiming for April 1, not May 1.  That doesn't look likely now, given book difficulties.

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3549
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2930 on: March 13, 2017, 01:17:30 PM »
I would be interested, but am very busy thru May. Maybe June 1 would give readers an opportunity to get on the lists and get the book? I would be willing to buy a copy.

Jean

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2818
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2931 on: March 13, 2017, 02:47:28 PM »
I just ordered the PB book from the Book Depository for $8.04 and free shipping. Its in UK and takes 8 days to get here.
We could put this info with the announcement in the Library? I will have it by Mar 20th. About 253 pages. We could start it on April 1st?
 I will check on their ebooks. I had already ordered my PB when I saw that they had ebooks. Annnnnd, they no longer offer Ebooks!😢It seems that Amazon has some kind of agreement with them about that.
 
So the URL is: booksregistry.com or you could try Alibris?
 
So I looked up Hidden Figures on Alibris and they have it for $4.51(for young adults) plus shipping probably around $3.99.  I listened to the audio preview for young adults and it didn't seem to be any different from an adults audio.😋😋

"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2818
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2932 on: March 13, 2017, 02:48:22 PM »
Oops. I meant to say we were aiming for April 1, not May 1.  That doesn't look likely now, given book difficulties.

Annie, I would be wary of the young readers edition without a chance to compare.  Comparing tables of contents on Amazon, it has almost a quarter fewer pages, and the chapter headings have been simplified.

"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2818
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2933 on: March 13, 2017, 02:50:28 PM »
Well,Alibris does have the adult book of Hidden Figures for $8.50 or so plus $3.99 shipping charges. The young age book also has #3.99 shipping.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8169
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2934 on: March 20, 2017, 02:08:11 PM »
I haven't ordered Hidden Figures yet, but I did order Rise of the Rocket Girls: The Women Who Propelled Us from Missiles to the Moon to Mars by Nathalia Holt. While Hidden Figures concentrates on NASA, Rise of the Rocket Girls is about the women of the JPL Lab in California beginning way back in the 40s. The price was a lot better than what Amazon wants for Hidden Figures.

Oops! JPL is part of NASA. However, it grew out of the work at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory at the California Institute of Technology in 1936. "Rocket Girls" begins with Barbara Canright who was the first woman human computer on the pre-JPL team.  BTW, one of the early woman human computers, as far as I can determine, still works at JPL. Popular Science recently published an article about her. http://www.popsci.com/planets-and-prejudice

Jonathan

  • Posts: 1344
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2935 on: March 20, 2017, 04:20:22 PM »
Thanks, Frybabe. I must look for Rocket Girls. I'm almost throughHidden Figures, and would like to know more. And I've also acquired Rocket Men, by Craig Nelson, which came with the highest reccomendation. Wasn't it amazing to watch it all happen back then. Why weren't  we told that women were playing such a big part in the science and mechanics of the achievment?

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8169
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2936 on: March 20, 2017, 05:22:08 PM »
We weren't told a lot of things, or misinformed through error or on purpose. Some of it was simply that there is too much to learn in the limited amount of time they have to teach the young. That is why I think it is important to read and self-educate all through life. Then there are all the things we have forgotten over the years that get re-remembered with a little prodding.

I'll look into Rocket Men. I am getting a kick out of discovering that the word "rocket" was looked down upon by many pundits as pure science fiction, impossible, not to be taken seriously. That is why the JPL was called Jet Propulsion Laboratory and not Rocket Propulsion Laboratory. The early days of JPL are an interesting subject in their own right. Werner Von Braun and the rest on the East Coast got most of the glory, I think, even though we had people working on rockets and jet engines before he arrived.

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2818
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2937 on: March 20, 2017, 06:37:57 PM »
Very interesting article, Frybabe.

I just finished listening to story about Rachel Carson during the writing of Silent Spring. She so believed in her findings concerning pesticides and what they caused to happened to our bodies. It took decades after her death for science to act on her findings. In fact, some still don't want to admit she was correct. My mother read and spoke often about eating organic foods. Unfortunately, Carson died shortly died after her book Silent Spring was published. Another problem that she saw, involved how nuclear fallout could make changes in our DNA. 

Carson was well known for a series of books about the sea around us. People loved the beauty of
her books and they were on best seller lists around the world.  She was an author rock star!

Here is a list of women scientists and mathematicians who died in 2016.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/gone-in-2016-10-notable-women-in-science-and-technology/
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8169
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2938 on: March 21, 2017, 05:42:38 AM »
I read both Silent Spring and one of her books on the shoreline (New Jersey, I think). The book on the shore was indeed a lovely tribute to the ecology of the shoreline.

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3549
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2939 on: March 24, 2017, 12:54:21 PM »
I am reading a fun book titled "Wonderland: how play made the modern world" by Stephen Johnson. In the first scenario he theorizes how the development of the wish for cotten, calico and chinz as opposed the the uncomfortable, drab woolen garments and underwear of the 17th century, led to more exploration > to a greater need for growing cotten > to the growth of modern history slavery > to the Industrial Revolution > to the department store > to the shopping mall!!! He has also written "Where Good Ideas Come From", "How We Got to Now",  and. "Everything Bad is Good for You." Sound intriguing.

I'm also reading The Way We Never Were"  by Stephanie Coontz, an expert in the history of families. She wrote the first edition in 1992 about how we have mythologized marriage and family, how we think of those as having been so much better in the past. She gives facts and figures of the myths. She has updated it as our contemporary attitudes are changing quickly about such issues as gay marriage and interracial marriage. I.e. in 1991, 48 percent of American society approved of interracial marriage with 42 percent disapproving. By 2013, 87 percent of people said they approved while only 11 percent disapproved. She does good research and proves her theories to me.

Wow, Annie, that was a great article, I've filed it away in my STEM women file to use in a future presentation. 2016 was a bad year for society losing many great people.

And thank you Frybabe for posting the article on Rocket Girls.

Jean

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3549
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2940 on: March 24, 2017, 02:21:09 PM »
Some more books from the bibliography from my women's artists presentations at the library.

Candace Wheeler: The Art and Enterprise of American Design, 1875-1900 / Amelia Peck,  Carol Irish, 2001. Wheeler along with L.C. Tiffany decorated many of the most “signigifcant” houses in NYC. She was a textile artist, particularly interested in embroidery and supported craftswomen by founding the Society of Decorative Arts in NYC and similar exchanges.  You can find Candace Wheeler’s books How to Make Rugs and The Development of Embroidery in America, and Principles of Home Decorating for free at www.gutenberg.org. Remember they were published at the beginning of the 19th century and read as such and the pictures are in black and white.

Julia Morgan: architect of beauty/Mark Wilson; 2012; designer of over 700 buildings including the “Hearst Castle” at San Simeon
The Dinner Party: Judy Chicago and the power of popular feminism: 1970-2007/ Jane F Gerhard,

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 9472
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2941 on: March 26, 2017, 09:17:46 AM »
The Hidden Figures discussion will start April 1 (not fooling).  The pre-discussion is now out.  Come in and get started

HERE

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8169
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2942 on: March 30, 2017, 06:45:31 AM »
Sometimes non-fiction books aren't. I wonder how many books written as non-fiction really are fiction. I know a few authors who do let you know that their work is, although written as if non-fiction, are actually novels. I wonder if, perhaps, so many authors these days state right in the title "A Novel" so there is no mistaking it for non-fiction. Some, however, actually wrote and promoted their books as non-fiction. Here are four. http://manybooks.net/articles/4-non-fiction-books-that-turned-out-to-be-fiction
I only knew about one of these being exposed as fiction.

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 9472
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2943 on: March 30, 2017, 10:18:50 AM »
Interesting.  The only one of those books I've read is Go Ask Alice, and though I didn't know it had been exposed, there were enough details that didn't seem quite right, that I felt sure it was partly or wholly fiction.

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8169
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2944 on: March 30, 2017, 03:20:06 PM »
I didn't read any of them, but I do remember the big stink over The Amityville Horror.

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8613
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2945 on: March 30, 2017, 05:57:02 PM »
that's really bad. the publishers should get a rap on the knuckles for not doing more too verify the honesty of the books.

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3549
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2946 on: March 31, 2017, 12:31:35 PM »
I understand what they are saying about those "fictional accounts", but we readers must know that it's good to read more than one source about a person or event. Some writers make assumptions that might not be factual, especially when writing/reading about communities who have been somewhat lost to history. I've often cautioned my students/audiences about that.

Recently in my presentations about women artists I came across one source that said Anna Peale, dgt of James Peale, was the first professional woman artist in the country; another source said that her younger sister Sarah was the first professional woman artist in the country. Anna was 9 yrs older than Sarah and it was said that she sold her first paintings when she was 20, meaning Sarah would have had to have sold her work at age 11!!!!! 😊 But I also know that Patience Lovell Wright and her sister were sculptors with studios in NYC and Philly before the American Revolution - Anna Peale was born in 1791! PLW also sculpted prominent persons in London and Paris during the Rev, 15 yrs before Anna was born. Because women's history has often been lost, it's possible the authors never heard of Wright and just made an assumption.

Even as esteemed an historian as Stephen Ambrose in his book about Lewis and Clark's trek through the Northwest kept saying they were "the first white men " in some parts of the country. I kept thinking maybe he should have qualified that as "may have been the first white men..........". European trappers, who didn't write down their travel experiences, could very likely have already been there.
We are learning so many more history facts everyday, particulary about communities that haven't been documented, that good historians need to be cautious about being so certain about what they write and readers need to also be skeptical.

Jean

evergreen

  • Posts: 55
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2947 on: April 18, 2017, 10:59:25 PM »
Recently finished Ron Chernow's bio of Alexander Hamilton.  All I can say is WOW!  Excellent book.

I am of the opinion that the author was at times overly fond of the subject.  I'd like to hear the opinion of anyone who has read it.

Frybabe

  • ..
  • Posts: 8169
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2948 on: April 19, 2017, 07:53:55 AM »
Jean, your point is well taken. There is also the possibility that, in addition, the authors may not have researched any further than women painters. If your sources were just talking about painters rather than all art forms, they were too narrowly focused and made the mistake of using the word artist instead of painter or assumed the reader would know they were talking about painters only.

It really is a wonder that most history isn't distorted (or maybe most is and we don't realize it) by the lack of precision in wording, not to mention thoroughness in research. I think that is especially true today with so many contract authors on deadlines that make it difficult to be so thorough. Oh, and then there are the errors of previous authors that get compounded when they are used as sources. We could go on and on about errors in language translation and changes in word use that skew things if a more modern author is not aware of them. Ex: Egregious. When you hear that word you automatically think negative. The word means extraordinary, distinguished, outstanding. In Roman times, it was a positive word, now-a-days it is most definitely negative. A complete flip on the meaning/intent which, if you didn't know that, you might think of some ancient action being related as something awful rather than something that was positive or praised at the time.

Even worse, these days, is the lack of precision in speaking. I am sometimes guilty of same. I believe our current President suffers from imprecise language and a lack of proper word usage.

And don't start me on the hidden agendas of some writers and how they slant their wording, while preserving the actual event itself, toward one or another personal belief or world view regarding a person or event.

Uh, Oh! I got on a soapbox. Off it now. 


Jonathan

  • Posts: 1344
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2949 on: April 19, 2017, 06:26:09 PM »
Great soapbox observations, Frybabe, on looking for historical accuracy and honest language. And a great example of setting the record straight from Jean.

So I got a great chuckle out of Evergreen tossing Ron Chernow's bio of Alexander Hamilton in for comment. History writing doesn't get more thorough than this comprehensive book. I read it about ten years ago and just recently decided to reread. No doubt the author took a great pleasure in researching his subject and its truthfulness is surely beyond question.
 
The president is making a great effort at communicating, but he is, after all, a man of action.

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8613
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2950 on: April 20, 2017, 03:19:04 PM »
A friend was reading a bio of Hamilton that she said was excellent, but very long, and I forgot to get the authors name. I'll bet that's the one.

I never realized how crucial Hamilton was to the development of our economy, until a friend lent me a short biography. He was pitted against Jefferson, who had this vision of America as an agrarian (i.e. farming) society. But Hamilton, by putting the American economy (and our money)on a sound international basis, made our development into a trading and industrial giant possible.

If Jefferson had had his way, rather than the rural paradise he envisioned, we might have been more like many South American countries, with a few rich landowners and many poor peasants.

Jonathan

  • Posts: 1344
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2951 on: April 20, 2017, 06:42:40 PM »
'Egregious' is such a super word. To use it (see Frybabe's post #2948) one should know what one is talking about.

Now Ron Chernow's bio of Alexander Hamilton is a very readable book. Thanks, Evergreen, for reminding me. He certainly does feel very warmly about his subject. Just reading the Prologue convinces one of that. And there, on page 5 is that word. I want to quote it:

'I have tried to gather anecdotal material that will bring this cerebral man to life as both a public and a private figure. Charming and impestuous, romantic and witty, dashing and headstrong, Hamilton offers the biographer an irresistible psychological study. For all his superlative mental gifts, he was afflicted with a touchy ego that made him querulous and fatally combative. He never outgrew the stigma of his illegitimacy; and his exquisite tact often gave way to egregious failures of judgment that left even his keenest admirers aghast. If capable of numerous close friendships, he also entered into titanic feuds with Jefferson, Madison, Adams, and Burr.'

And what a romantic picture of the widowed Eliza Hamilton, carrying the torch for fifty years, making a shrine to her husband out of her home and finding comfort and companionship in his bust. A very handsome sculpture.

Jonathan

  • Posts: 1344
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2952 on: April 26, 2017, 09:07:13 PM »
My newspaper today features a picture of President Trump at his desk in the Oval Office. Can someone tell me, which president that is in the large frame on the wall at President Trump's shoulder. I think it may be Andrew Jackson.

maryz

  • Posts: 2332
    • Z's World
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2953 on: April 26, 2017, 09:17:42 PM »
Yes, it is Andrew Jackson.  Trump is a great fan of Jackson's.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

kidsal

  • ::
  • Posts: 2606
  • Howdy from Rock Springs, WY
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2954 on: May 09, 2017, 05:47:30 AM »
Just starting City of Light, City of Poison -- Murder, Magic and the First Police Chief of Paris" by Holly Tucker

kidsal

  • ::
  • Posts: 2606
  • Howdy from Rock Springs, WY
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2955 on: May 09, 2017, 05:58:28 AM »
Also Last Hope Island by Lynne Olson.  Stories of forgotten souls from seven countries who found refuge in England.  King Has of Norway, Queen Wilhhelmina, Earl of Suffolk who rescued two nuclear scientists from France, Polish pilots and code breakers.

hats

  • Posts: 329
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2956 on: May 09, 2017, 06:09:38 AM »
I would third, if there is such a thing, "Clara And Mr. Tiffany". :D

hats

  • Posts: 329
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2957 on: May 09, 2017, 06:10:24 AM »
I would third, if there is such a thing, "Clara And Mr. Tiffany". :D

kidsal

  • ::
  • Posts: 2606
  • Howdy from Rock Springs, WY
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2958 on: May 09, 2017, 06:10:25 AM »
"Lilac Girls" by Martha Hall Kelly.  Story of New York socialite who championed a group of concentration camp survivors known as the Rabbits.

Annie

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 2818
  • Downtown Gahanna
    • SeniorLearn
Re: Non-Fiction
« Reply #2959 on: May 09, 2017, 06:48:06 PM »
I recently read an opinion of Lilac Girls which said it was not a very well written book which lead to a dissatisfying story.

Hats, is that really you?? What a welcome surprise!  I believe we have already discussed Clara and Mr Tiffany.
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey