Author Topic: Non-Fiction (Read 416043 times)

maryz · « **Reply #600 on:** November 01, 2009, 04:49:14 PM »

TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK

What are you reading? Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?

Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it.

Let's talk books!

Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold

.Thanks for reminding me about that one, Marcie.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #601 on:** November 02, 2009, 10:00:06 AM »

My PBS station is showing that program also, MARCIE. We renewed our interest in FDR's programs of the Depression when we discussed Frances Perkins recently.

After that program, is one about the trial of Leo Frank which also looks interesting.

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That was an interesting site, Marcie, about the clothing industry. Here are two paragraphs of the article:

unless you're a 19-year-old with a closet full of American Apparel (amex: APP - news - people ) items, it's very rare to see the words "Made in the U.S.A." stamped on the tag of your shirt. Or "Made in Italy" sewn on the inside of your luxury handbag. Or "Made in France" imprinted on a perfume box, for that matter. It's all about quality and price, not where the product was made.

Why? For one, cheap labor doesn't always spawn cheap-looking clothes. "There are manufacturers in China that employ highly-skilled workers who can produce goods that measure up against what's made in the U.S. or Western Europe," says Josh Green, chief executive of Panjiva.com, a Web-based service with offices in New York and Shanghai. Panjiva provides detailed information on over 40,000 apparel and textile manufacturers in over 140 countries, as well as a ratings system that measures everything from efficiency to ethical codes

Many years ago (how often I have said those two words) Americans were urged to buy only clothing with the label "Made in America." There was a labor union promoting either that or a similar slogan.

Jonathan · « **Reply #602 on:** November 02, 2009, 04:31:59 PM »

'the mills of yesterday'...would that make a good title for something on the huge industry in the New England of a hundred years ago? They haven't all disappeared, Ella. Many are there still to be seen, some looking pretty desolate, others converted into condos or business sites.

Thanks for the PBS/CCC doc tonight, Marcie. I had it marked on my calendar, but I probably would have forgotten it, what with all the new reading I've acquired in the last week or two, at the annual bookfairs here in town. At least fifty new titles, all over the bibliomap. I've made a start on half of them.

I've just put down FREUD'S WIZARD, a biography of Ernest Jones, who did so much to make Freud acceptable to the English speaking world.

Two more biographies of fascinating characters, Dante and Savonarola, both of Florence fame. That's why the suggested Florence book mentioned here caught my eye. And wasn't Florence the U.S.A. of Europe five hundred years ago, providing capital and culture to all the world. Even provided someone like Machiavelli with plenty of material for a manual on politics.

How about something with the title, Captain Bigh's Portable Nightmare, with an account of his adventures after being thrown off his ship by those nasty mutineers? Naturally he saw them all hanged when he eventually got back to England.

Law and the courts always fascinate me so I got From the Diaries of Felix Frankfurter, as well as the The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection. These two kept showing up in Frances Perkins life, and they did pursue an active political life, exerting considerable influence in politcal affairs. I also got a bio of Learned Hand, such a prominent name in U.S. legal matters. And a recent book by Jeffrey Toobin, The Nine; Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court. I should be able to practice law if I finish all these.

For distraction I got Ulysses S. Grant's Personal Memoirs, and Goethe: Die Reisen, to brush up on my German. I believe he takes his readers to Florence and Rome.

I'll be back with the other 37 titles another time. How about, A Short History of Tractors in Ukrainian? It's hilarious. The 80-something widower who is snared by a young golddigger, which really complicates the lives of his two daughters. Hey, you gotta have some light reading too.

marcie · « **Reply #603 on:** November 02, 2009, 09:10:06 PM »

Jonathan! What an intriguing list of books. I'll be looking forward to seeing the other 37 titles you bought!

mrssherlock · « **Reply #604 on:** November 02, 2009, 09:24:19 PM »

Jonathan: Some of us are having serious trouble with our compulsive book buying. We'll be starting a twelth step program soon. Care to join us?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #605 on:** November 03, 2009, 09:50:40 AM »

Compulsive book buying! Yes, I need to stop that also. When I decide that I have been exceptionally good (done a few things I don't want to do), I drive to B&N, look and buy, and have lunch at P.F.Chang's, sometimes with a glass of white wine.

A few of those books were not worthy, sad to say.

JONATHAN, let us know if you find one we could spend some time with.

The young men on the CCC program looked healthy and happy didn't they? Food, shelter, clothing, cleaniness makes a whale of a difference; how degrading it must have been for many of them to hit the road, leaving their family behind. ONe young man said his father had put him out of the house, sad.

The Hoover dam was built by CCC? Why was it named for Hoover then? Or was it? My husband went to a convention in Las Vegas years ago and was awed by its size and splendor.

LIkewise I loved a swimming pool in one of W.Va. parks built by the CCC. What could be different about a swimming pool? This one was surrounded by a low stone wall with plantings all around, as I remember it, it was just lovely and I inquired about it. Would like to go back soon and see it all again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oglebay_Park

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #606 on:** November 03, 2009, 10:38:22 AM »

Did you watch the Leo Frank documentary? I had never heard of this case before and was horrified by it. The racism, the southern attitude toward the north; perhaps left over from the Civil War? The trial led to a re-emergence of the KKI, and the leading townsmen were in on the lynching?

Unbelievable! Were they ever interviewed later I wonder to see if they had regrets over the hanging of this poor fellow?

Frank, it seemed to me, had very poor defense; the family and the Jewish community could have afforded the best but this Rosser fellow certainly was not in that league.

Has anyone read about the case in the book mentioned. I believe the title was AND THE DEAD SHALL RISE.

JoanK · « **Reply #607 on:** November 03, 2009, 03:37:06 PM »

Jonathan: that does sound like quite a haul. I'd love to read a biography of Dante: all those enemies of his that he's thinking up horrible punishments for in The Inferno. I always wondered what they did to HIM!

But we definitely need a book-buyers anonymous. It's too easy to click on Amazon. Worse, my local Barnes and Noble carries double chocolate cheesecake from The Cheesecake factory, so buying books is not only expensive, it's fattening!

PatH · « **Reply #608 on:** November 03, 2009, 04:39:06 PM »

Jonathan, I'll be interested to hear what you think of the Bligh book. We read his journal on the old site, and it was quite a remarkable feat sailing that little boat 3600 miles to safety.

ANNIE · « **Reply #609 on:** November 03, 2009, 08:36:56 PM »

Ella,
I lived in the county and the town where the Leo Frank affair occurred and we have seen a few documentaries plus movies based on it over the years. It was just a horrible thing to have happened and inexcusably defended by the KKK and many others when it happened. I can't remember the names of the movies that I saw while living there. But, it was all true. They hung the man in the Marietta Square, where 50 or 60 yrs later, we attended many festivals, on stage theatre offerings, music in the park, plus all of the restaurants.

If you click on the link below and go to Page 37 (if it isn't what comes up) of that book of photos, I think that might be the swimming pool that you mentioned but I don't see any pictures or an island in the middle, (mentioned in another site else that I uncovered). I must say that I was just pulled right in to this book of photos of Oglebey Park and spent a bit of time just perusing them. And, I note that Dr Alan Fawcett was the first lifeguard. Is that the Fawcett that the OSU Fawcett Center is named after?

http://books.google.com/books?id=Fho584EEKzYC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=Oglebay+Park%27s+swimming+pool&source=bl&ots=ceSjOBplI7&sig=0Kws6WLdb4pQbbWOAGA-eYJ8N2c&hl=en&ei=GbPwSsTeEtG6lAenzMD6CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Oglebay%20Park%27s%20swimming%20pool&f=false

Babi · « **Reply #610 on:** November 04, 2009, 08:55:16 AM »

You remind me of old stories from my Dad, ELLA. He wasn't in the CCC, but he 'hit the road' as a teenager, following the harvests. He said things were too tight at home with four kids, and he wanted his twin brother to be able to finish high school, so he left. He had a few good stories to tell.

As for the Southern attitude toward the North, no 'perhaps' about it.
The Northern carpetbaggers made things even worse after the end of the war, and the Southerners retreated into a bulwark of resentment that
lasted for a century or more. One can still find the remains of that
attitude toward a 'Yankee'. For a long time the word down South was
'damnyankee'. I remember hearing of a judge presiding over a divorce
trial who stated he had never known of a Southern woman marrying a Yankee who didn't live to regret it.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #611 on:** November 04, 2009, 10:08:17 AM »

BABI, such attitude of southerners are understandable. It was a dreadful war and I'm sure that each family has handed down stories of the northerners both during and after the Civil War. A little similar to veterans of WWII hating the Japanese and the German, and the same with the Vietnam veterans. Wars are not easily forgotten and, in fact, the shelves of any library or bookstore would look much emptier without books about them.

HELLO ANN! Did you watch the program on PBS? I was absolutely amazed by that site you gave us about OGLEBAY PARK and its history. The pictures are not very good and you simply cannot get the beauty of that pool but the park is a lovely one and is famous for its Christmas lights. I think I will just have to go down there soon! Wanta come?

bellemere · « **Reply #612 on:** November 05, 2009, 10:48:11 AM »

My husband remembers his sister dating a CCC boy and having to meet him on the porch; he was not invited into the house.
In Western Mass. the main CCC project was Quabbin Reservoir, for which 4 towns were leveled and "drowned" by a river diversion to form a water supply for Boston and environs. The CCC boys worked demolihing the buildings, cutting down the trees and moving coffins from burialgrounds to new ones in another town. The surrounding area is rapicly returning to wilderness but for years you could see, from a boat, the layout of the streets below the water. You can still see some old cellar holes and the cement plinth that held the Civil War monumental cannon.
On the last night in the old town, the day before everybody had to be out, there was a dance in the town hall; the band played "Home Sweet Home" ; lots of tears.
Once a year, descendants of the the town residents are allowed to drive through the grounds, otherwise, no cars are allowed. Beautiful hiking, and wildlife photo ops ; some fishing from boats and a trout stream allowed; the whole area is a favorite outdoor spot. So thanks to the boys of the CCC.

marcie · « **Reply #613 on:** November 05, 2009, 11:00:16 AM »

Bellemere, thanks for sharing that wonderful story of the good work done by the CCC. The idea of seeing the layout of the streets below the water is haunting. I'm sure some authors have used that image in their books.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #614 on:** November 05, 2009, 12:16:45 PM »

Another government dam project, not CCC, was the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) which displaced 15,000 families. This was an extremely bold experiment by FDR creating an entity which encroached the states of Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi. Kentcky, Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia. Historically its impact is stupendous; the Coen Brothers movie, Oh, Brother,Where Are Thou, uses the creation of a fictional dam as its foundation. See more at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

maryz · « **Reply #615 on:** November 05, 2009, 12:20:44 PM »

And most of the folks who live here in the Tennessee Valley are very glad that the TVA was created.

PatH · « **Reply #616 on:** November 05, 2009, 08:22:00 PM »

Quote from: maryz on November 05, 2009, 12:20:44 PM

And most of the folks who live here in the Tennessee Valley are very glad that the TVA was created.

All except the ones that were displaced. I don't really mean that as a criticism, it was a tremendously good thing. Another CCC project was Shenandoah National Park (Skyline Drive), which also displaced a few people. But I've enjoyed it all my life.

maryz · « **Reply #617 on:** November 05, 2009, 10:36:42 PM »

You're quite right, Pat.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #618 on:** November 06, 2009, 09:10:14 AM »

Whole towns destroyed by the CCC? Imminent Doman? Is that how they did that? It's understandable that sometimes it is necessary but think of the families being displaced. Much legal work involved to obtain that land I would think.

Years ago, we had a slice of our acreage taken by the government for use as an exit ramp for a freeway. My husband was furious! We didn't want the freeway to begin with and then to take a bit of our land?? He fought it for months and got legal help over the whole incident. Well do I remember that! As many of those families did I am sure.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #619 on:** November 06, 2009, 09:21:55 AM »

Apparently the TVA lands were owned by what could be termed hard scrabble poor whose families had farmed there for generations. What could those families do in the midst of the Great Depression without their farms to grow their food, scanty though it might have been. Where could they have gone but to cities and towns where they became statistics of unemployed, homeless. Tragic.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #620 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:47:02 PM »

The TVA has an interesting history, and apparently still is controversial. Note at the bottom that Ronald Reagan's criticism helped propel him into politics and the governorship of California.

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_valley_authority

mabel1015j · « **Reply #621 on:** November 06, 2009, 03:00:27 PM »

I am reading a very interesting bio of Marjorie Merriweather Post by Nancy Rubin. Their are many facets of interest in this book - the reason Post began the cereal business and how General Foods developed; Christian Science; Marjorie's husbands (the first one became the grandfather to Glenn Close, the second on was E.F. Hutton who was a great financier, but also uncle to Barbara Hutton, the third one was ambassador to Russia); the life of the VERY rich - her houses, her yatchs, her philanthopy, etc.; her dgt Dina Merrill.

I reccommend it, altho it is stuffed full of detail and sometimes gets tedious..................jean

JoanK · « **Reply #622 on:** November 06, 2009, 09:11:47 PM »

I bookmarked the TVA for later reading. My husband and I had (and still have) a lot of our savings invested in TVA bonds. I don't know if it's a good idea, but it's been a good investment.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #623 on:** November 06, 2009, 11:26:05 PM »

JEAN, I read a book about her not too long ago, aren't those heiresses fascinating? Ginny was reading about Mrs. Astor.

From a library visit yesterday, I brought home a bio of Henry Kissinger by Walter Isaacson (whoee! a heavy book); Bruce Feiler's book AMERICA'S PROPHET, which we are discussing in February (looks very good); Homer and Longley by E.L.Doctorow, and What Else but Home by Michael Rosen (the story of a family who adopted five older children from urban homes (looks excellent).

What would you read first?

Babi · « **Reply #624 on:** November 07, 2009, 08:29:30 AM »

People are reimbursed in those 'imminent domain' takeovers. How fair the payments are I wouldn't know. And of course, if it's land that's been in the family for generations, no payment would be enough to compensate for the loss of a beloved home.
It's the old standard, I suppose. What is best for the majority?

Jonathan · « **Reply #625 on:** November 07, 2009, 05:53:14 PM »

Ella, read the Feiler book first. I'll be dying of curiousity waiting to hear what that's all about. Moses as the father of modern America? Absolutely unconstitutional. Moses was too undemocratic for that.

ANNIE · « **Reply #626 on:** November 07, 2009, 09:59:10 PM »

Jonathan,
Why don't you join us in February when we read and discuss "America's Prophet"? You would be a welcome addition to what promises to be an eye opening history of our country, our leaders and citizens who quoted much of the Moses' sections of the Bible.

Babi · « **Reply #627 on:** November 08, 2009, 08:21:31 AM »

I won't be at all surprised. The Commandments and biblical teachings
are at the very root of much of America's laws.We forget how firmly
rooted in Christian beliefs and ethics that generation was.

ANNIE · « **Reply #628 on:** November 08, 2009, 12:14:55 PM »

Can't wait to start this discussion and would really like to see people such as Jonathon in there with us. I am really looking forward to your sharing your formidable knowledge concerning the Bible.

Babi · « **Reply #629 on:** November 09, 2009, 08:21:44 AM »

Talk about serendipity! I turned on the TV yesterday morning and watched as Charles Stanley talked about the influence of the Bible and Christian beliefs in the formation of the Declaration of Independence.
There have been many claims in recent decades that the 'founding fathers' were Deists and that religion had no role in the formation of our
govenment. That, frankly, is a bunch of hooey. About half of the men who assembled to write that Declaration had seminary degrees. Four of them,..or was it five?...wrote translations of the Bible for various purposes. Some were active ministers.
The session opened with prayer...about three hours of it!...and Bible reading. Stanley quoted a letter from John Adams to Abigail on how strongly Psalm 35 had altered their approach to their issues with Britain.
During the months of deliberation, days of prayer and fasting alternated with days of prayer and thanksgiving whenever those present felt the need of them. About 15 times, according to Stanley.
Those writers who wished to downplay the role of faith in establishing our government concentrated on Franklin and Jefferson, ignoring the rest of the assembly. I won't even try to comment on all Stanley had to say
about the background and lives of some of those others, but their firm religious stance was unmistakable.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #630 on:** November 10, 2009, 09:49:51 AM »

YOu are so right, BABI. Feiler gives us numerous examples of the influence of Moses on our founding fathers. Forever on our Libery Bell there is this: "Proclaim liberty thoughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof."- Leviticus 25

Recently, Hillary Clinton in a speech during the recent presidential campaign remarked: "every bit progress you try to make there's always gonna be somebody to say 'You know, I think we should go back to Egypt.'" President Obama, in 2007 in Selma Alabama, said "We are in the presence of a lot of Moseses. I thank the Moses generation, but we've got to remember that Joshua still had a job to do. As great as Moses was....he didn't cross over the river to see the Promised Land."

The Pilgrims were searching for a promised land - the settlers at Jamestown likened themselves to Moses - for centuries European explorers had set out for new lands without using similar expression, but the founders did and, consequently, we can state that Moses became the story of America.

I'm learning much in Feiler's book; all of which will make for a good discussion in February.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #631 on:** November 10, 2009, 10:08:05 AM »

The Walter Isaacson book is difficult to put down - and hold up; all 900 pages of it.

Why is this brilliant writer not able to condense his books a little in order to make them manageable by readers? I love his writing. The KISSINGER biography is the book most of us would love to write if we could write. Kissinger, a man who Isaacson states over and over is brilliant, conspiratorial, furtive, sensitive, prone to rivalries and power struggles, charming, deceitful, maneuvering, ambitious, secretive and on and on. He did, indeed, pick a good subject; is this why no one has attempted a bio of the man before?

Have any of you read any of Isaacson's books before? The Benjamin Franklin one, the Einstein? All similar in weight!

JoanK · « **Reply #632 on:** November 10, 2009, 03:01:19 PM »

No, but both Benjamin franklin and Einstein were very interesting men. I can see why the Franklin biography would almost have to be long to be good: he was into so many things and did so much. (Did you know he discovered the Gulf Stream?)

Einstein, unless a lot of detail was given as to his phisics and math, would be shorter, I would think. Is Isaacson a physicist?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #633 on:** November 10, 2009, 06:58:14 PM »

No, JOAN, Isaacson is Assistant Managing Editor of TIME magazine (as of the printing of this book, 1992) and has written several books. He writes very well!

Wait until you read AMERICA'S PROPHET and meet the Old Colony Club where the old and older men meet.

http://oldcolonyclub.org/

mrssherlock · « **Reply #634 on:** November 10, 2009, 07:54:30 PM »

I read the Einstein bio. Isaacson is very good. This was a different man than the one I thought I knew. Einstein became someone I would like to meet rather than the god-like figure that is the popular conception of him.

JoanK · « **Reply #635 on:** November 10, 2009, 09:34:17 PM »

No godlike perception for me. Friends who were at Princeton when he as there told me he was so absentminded, when he would go out, he would forget which house was his. neighbors got tired of him showing up in their houses, thinking they were his. They got together and painted his door red, so he could remember it.

If he hadn't always had a woman devoted to taking care of him, I don't know if he would have survived. But he abandoned the one who took care of him when he was poor and struggling.

ANNIE · « **Reply #636 on:** November 11, 2009, 05:57:18 AM »

Hmm, is that a person of interest here in non-fiction? I have a book that Einstein himself wrote. Can't remember the title. Do you remember the movie that was made about his granddaughter and him plus his genius cohorts? Quite funny and droll!

ANNIE · « **Reply #637 on:** November 11, 2009, 11:40:21 AM »

Lest we forget:http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/taps.html

We are getting ready to attend the Vets Day celebration at the elementary school where two of our grandchildren attend. They have added a new feature, coffee and donuts before the ceremonies. Ralph didn't expect to be here this day so its a double celebration for him. He's a Vet and he's alive!! Thanks to many prayers from all of you and a heart pump. Wow!!

JoanK · « **Reply #638 on:** November 11, 2009, 03:57:48 PM »

Annie: I have that book, too. He wrote it to explain the theory of relativity to children, and adults gobbled it up. But I don't know the movie. Do you remember it's name?

ANNIE · « **Reply #639 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:56:54 AM »

The movie was "IQ" with Walter Mathau, Meg Ryan and Tim Robbins and here is a link to a cheap copy of it, should your library not have it.
http://www.amazon.com/I-Q-Tim-Robbins/dp/B0000A2ZO0

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Author Topic: Non-Fiction (Read 416043 times)