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CharlieW

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Welcome everyone to -- BASIL THE DOG!

As we approach this last story that Charlie has scheduled, can we think of it as a story in five parts, and perhaps discuss one part a day and then our overall evaluation of the story the final two days of the week? Does that meet everyone's approval?

I must admit right at the beginning that I am a neophyte when it comes to reading short stories; I can't remember the last time I purposefully read one and had never heard of this collection of stories until Charlie introduced it, had all of you? If you had, or had not, please help me out here as this is not my usual cup of tea - it was more like a shot of brandy! It just picks you up quickly and you do not have the time to savor all the chapters and the characters that an ordinary book has, so I think we, or I should say I, have to be particularly careful and studious in examining the details of the theme and the characters.

It is hard to imagine that the Editor of this book read 2500 stories to find these chosen 21 that are presented in this book! Isn't that amazing! How would you go about picking and choosing. Well, some of them perhaps you could cross off after the first couple of paragraphs - just as I've laid a book down after the first 10 or 20 pages. But still.......

Perhaps you have discussed all the above before, but I've been busy elsewhere in the books and have not been following this particular discussion so you'll have to forgive my repetitions.

So let us proceed.

In this first part we have the generic family of four - are they ordinary people? Do you recognize some or all of the foods they eat? And what about these home remedies for everything, from becoming pregnant to using spider webs to heal cuts?

Those aren't any that I remember, but I did try burying a string in the moonlight to get rid of a wart on my foot? Or something like that when I was young. What are your memories?

Mrs. Rama is familiar enough to me in her daily routine, and Winston and Margaret sound typical except I've never heard of a cannonball tree, fried biscuits, and, boy, Tom Hanks in the movie "Cast Away" would have loved to know how to crack open a coconut as easily as the driver of the coconut truck did - did any of you see Hanks' frustration at opening up a coconut? And who knows what Spanish parang is, pray tell?

But soon the darker part of this story appears and we see the future in the present, so to speak. I was astonished to learn so quickly of Margaret's death weren't you? Do you like to know the "end of the story" at the beginning in this fashion?

But I must - I will - stop and am anxious to hear all of your comments!

I'm like you Ella in that I usually think of a short story as something we either studied in High School or something that over the years I read in many a magazine.

Is there some format that we should use to analyse a short story or is it still looking at the character description, place, time, theme and plot?

Didn't get to read any of the other short stories and only now realized this discussion has been active for a time - I guess it would be a good idea for me to go back and read the posts from the earlier discussion. I thought I would spend some time in B&N one evening this week and sit back with a cup of cappiciano and read this story - so I may add my bit later in the week.

Hi Barbara! We, two, shall stumble along together as I didn't get a chance to read any of the other short stories either. But I did enjoy this one - there's much to consider here and I would say that we think about the characters, the theme and the plot all and we have the whole week to do it. It is a short story - Hahaha

Hopefully, some of the folks that participated in the other short stories will drop by and clue us in as to what they liked about the last short stories and how this compares - if it does - in any way to the ones they have discussed - other than the length that is.

I'm off to an emergency run to the dentist - toothache over the weekend and that rarely happens to me, as I go every 6 months, but this cannot be postponed. Oh, oh.................

It's a shame people don't read short stories when there are so many good ones around. Not too long ago I read a short story by Margaret Atwood, which was excellent. Great bedtime reading just before you turn out the light; that's what short stories are. What about Dickens' Christmas Carol or John Cheever's short stories? Aren't they considered fine literature?

Basil the Dog is not the easiest story in the world to read because so much is unfamiliar. Frances Sherwood has described a place: Trinidad; a few of its people and their beliefs and superstitions through the simple things that create existence: birth, childhood, marriage, sickness, death. It is interesting that she uses food to help develop her scene and story in the beginning.

The starchy cassava root must be leached and dried before using as food in order to remove cyanide.

Pastelles are made with corn meal and meat or vegetable filling which are placed on pieces of oiled banana leaf with raisins, olives, sometimes capers added. Then the pieces of leaf are folded and perhaps tied, put into water and boiled. Not too different from stuffed cabbage in other societies.

The roti served with curried chicken is an Indian bread made with flour, water and salt.

Mrs. Rama keeps salt handy in case a soucouyant should come in the house. A soucouyant is an old woman vampire who comes in a ball of fire, sucks the blood or her victim and leaves her skin behind her. Salt is thrown because the soucouyant cannot leave the house until she counts every single grain. By then the sun comes up, and she is caught without her skin, becoming harmless.

An obeah man is mentioned in the story. Obeah is an African religious belief which involves sorcery.

Winston's Basil the Dog figure is not too different from La Diablesse. La Diablesse is a female devil with a cloven hoof, just like Basil, who causes all sorts of trouble. Basil is Winston's devil.

I like the description of Mrs. Rama's routine, especially the one of her at the foot pedal sewing machine.

Back with more later.

Mal

MaryPage - 06:58am Jan 22, 2001 PST (#878 of 878)

a Virginian living in Maryland

Basil

Beautifully told, this is a lovely, sweet, sad little story. I should add truthfully told, as well.

At the end, I found myself hoping Winston made it big time in life. I rather think the author hints strongly that he did.

Having been born female, I have spent a lifetime being amazed the the urge within the male of our species to kill. Winston shows this in his preparations to bring down other kites. My own instinct would be to hope as many kites would get up and stay up as possible. Lots and lots of darting kites way up there gives me a frisson of pure Joy. I would have really felt indignation and anger at Winston and his chums for wanting to bring one another down.

One sentence was superfluous in this most excellent story. If I had been the author (I wish!), I would have stricken the 1st line in the last paragraph on page 342: "The sickness had started because Winston and Margaret used the drainage ditch as a channel for cork-and-pin boats."

We already knew that. The author had already drawn that picture and made us stiffen in horror and want to drag the children away from that ditch.

- 07:36am Jan 22, 2001 PST (#879 of 879)

Basil

MaryPage, the story is beautifully told. I have never read a story with a setting in Trinidad. The setting increased my interest. As a little boy,Winston seems to experience a lot of painful situations.

At every horrible situation, Basil seems to appear. What does Basil symbolize? I need help with this. Well, I am anxious to go finish the story, and then come back to read the other posts.

HATS

HATS, read my post #4.

Mal

There are a lot of different foods mentioned in the story. Thanks Malryn. Now, I have a better understanding about these different foods. I am familiar with the Cocoanut. At least once a year, my father would buy a Cocoanut. He made a big deal over the milk inside. I did not like Cocoanut, and to this day I do not like cocoanut cake.

Malryn, it helped when you described Basil as Winston's devil. I had the same idea but thought I might be wrong. I don't know if I have a picture of the devil inside of my head. I just imagine him as I have seen or heard him described in movies or books. He has the proverbial pitchfork and horns.

Malryn, I love to read a short story before I go to bed. I do suffer with insomnia. Short stories are like a sleeping pill. They help me to relax. When I close my eyes, I do not count sheep. I think about the story that I have finished.

HATS

I've just found a smashing link to a very frank interview with Nathan Englander, you may want to include it in your reading today: Nathan Englander interview with Knopf...

ginny

I am starting the Nathan Englander interview, Ginny. It looks very interesting. Sometimes I still get lost on the Seniornet.

Thanks,

HATS

That's OK, Hats, we're leaving it there and visible and clickable so if he can get in, he will not have a problem.

this is a new thing, this discussion continues the Basil the Dog, you are fine!

ginny

Trinidad - so far away - yet so many similarities

I saw so many parallels in this story, for instance: the foods -- food for illness; food for wellness; food for celebration. We too have foods for all those instances; chicken soup for illness; when we had a congestive cough, my Mom would mix honey, lemon and a shot of booze to cure us; one of the "treat" foods we have is called capoon -which is like a stuffing made with bread, cheese, swisschard, garlic moistened, made into a shape similar to the size of a half sandwich,i and wrapped in grape leaves, tied with string and then boiled. They are a production to make but ever so delicious. Every ethnic culture has it distinct foods, mine is Austrian.

As for cracking open a coconut, if you have never had the luxury of tasting fresh coconut, believe me, it is a great. So moist and delicious. We lived in Florida a short while and the coconut trees were in the front yard; once stripping away the green tough outer shell, to crack the inner brown shell, I used those tools available to me. A hammer and a screw and that is a chore.

I loved the brother/sister relationship between Winston and Margaret. They seemed to totally enjoy one another.

The Mother's mention if the items she brought from the city to her Mother's house -- the razor blades, cigarettes (my Mom would do the same thing with any box -- use it to store stuff).

I believe the father was a good man, head of the household who loved his children but that he fell upon hard times and could no longer take pride as 'head of the household.' No so different in today's society. And the drink -- well, that's a man thing in the face of adversity as far as I'm concerned. Please voice opinion.

As for "Basil" - I believe Basil was DEATH! Death as opposed to a devil or evil spirit. Winston new the distinction between the devil and God and yet death had no identify save and except for Winston's interpretation. It seems that Winston had a "sixth sense" [as my Mom would call it] and seemed to know when death was near. And, he was right - death can be lingering anywhere evidenced by the author's words: "He came in sickness and in health, in age and in youth, in the midst of cheer or sorrow." And, isn't that how death comes?

MaryPage said there was no need for the reiteration of the author's words "The sickness had started because Winston and Margaret used the drainage ditch as a channel for cork-and-pin boats."

I interpreted the repetition of those words, as spoken by the doctor within the hearing of Winston, to be the primary force that caused Winston to realize he must leave the Island and "...go to university, learn to do serious battle."

Did anyone else get the impression that he was going to do his "serious battle" over basic sanitary change so that no other child must die as his sister because a drainage ditch existed in their own back yard?

Dolphindli

I enjoyed reading this story. The mixed cultures of Trinidad are a fertile source for stories. The folk-remedies and superstitions are extremely rich ground to till. The obvious connection is V. S. Naipaul, whose stories this very much reminded me of. Hats - I'd highly recommend some early Naipaul if you liked this story.

I think many times in short stories we hear of the ending abruptly, and then the storyteller takes us back over the ground that led up to the now familiar end. I like the technique. It is always interesting to see how the author springs it on us. As many times as we might read stories that use this technique, it's always a surprise. And then Sherwood breaks out each "sighting' into its own little section. I found this effective. Not only does she foretell "The Most Awful" event - but lists the other awful events leading up to it.

Winston's devil? I'm with Dolphindi here. I liken Basil more to Ferlinghetti's smiling mortician.

On the other hand. I must lodge a formal protest over this one: And the drink -- well, that's a man thing in the face of adversity as far as I'm concerned. YOW!
Charlie

Maryal - thanks so much for your post! I had never heard of cassava and now you are telling us that it is a root that must be " leached and dried before using as food in order to remove cyanide." And I notice that Mrs. R boils and sweetens it - would this be in the nature of a dessert?

And "The roti served with curried chicken is an Indian bread made with flour, water and salt."

You must stay with us throughout this story, Maryal, you're a font of knowledge and we need it!

Basil is the devil, yes, but why does he only appear to Winston in this story? Because he is young and needs an explanation for evil? But Mrs. R., who seems very supersitious, does not speak of the devil, so how does how Winston come up with Basil if no one has taught him about the devil? Here is the first time Basil appears to the boy:

"Yes, Winston, trying hard, knew that bottle had mouth, and he also knew that despite the modest measure of their island life, despite each day's knuckled vigilance, despite the fence his mother put up against dirt and disease, despite humility in the face of fate, empire, and God, there was Basil."

Bottle had mouth?????

I loved the words "knuckled vigilance." - fighting words!

But why Basil?

Oh, I agree, but I usually do agree with you, MARYPAGE. Women will never understand, were not created to understand, the instincts to kill that young boys and men possess. Have you noticed that for the most part it is the boys who are standing at these video games in arcades trying their luck at killing someone or something. Have you ever seen a girl at one of them? And even in books we read how anxious young men are to enlist in a war, afraid it may be over before they reach the correct age? Well, most young men and then there are the Clintons, of course.

I, too, would have thrilled to see so many kites in the air, we see loveliness and soft, gently breezes blowing, where the young boys see the thrill of being superior.

GINNY - I've never read a story about Trinidad either, but this story is set in the 1950's and it would seem to me that they would have had better sanitation systems - it was a British colony then and this family was not poverty stricken; the father had a good job at the start of the story.

I'll return later this evening when I have a chance to read all the other posts - THANK YOU ONE AND ALL FOR YOUR WONDERFUL COMMENTS! I DO SO APPRECIATE HOW YOU ARE RESPONDING TO THIS STORY - I LOVED IT!

My dinner bell is ringing, or my husband is yelling, take your pick!

-----------------------------------

I found recipes for cassava pancakes, noodles, cakes and tidbits. Tapioca is made from cassava flour.

I don't believe Maryal has been in this discussion yet today.

Mal

Oh, Malryn, I do apologize! Of course it's you! Please forgive.

My excuse, if I need one, is I have a terrible toothache and must go tomorrow for a root canal, the dentist just did x-rays and diagnosis today - oh, boy.

Dinner in the oven - I just want to say a couple of things yet today. If I get boring, please tell me so.

There is a comparison between La Diablesse and Basil the Dog. La Diablesse and Basil appear when something evil or terrible is going to happen. I am not sure Basil is death, or whether he is a portent of death. A warning to whoever sees him that death could be nearby. I am inclined to think the latter. Winston did not die when he fell through the roof, yet he saw Basil.

I found the reference to La Diablesse and other interesting things when I did a search for Trinidad supersitions. There is as much information available on your computer as there is on mine. Go to your favorite search engine when you have a question about a work of literature. Quite probably you'll find an answer by typing in a keyword or two such as those above.

I have also recently found Edith Wharton's House of Mirth in its entirety plus 19 other more or less classic novels on the World Wide Web. This certainly helps people like me who can't afford to buy books and can't get out to the library.

Mal

Ella, that's okay. I'm so sorry you have such a toothache. I know how painful that is, since I went through a very hard time with my teeth not too long ago. I hope you feel better after your root canal is done.

Mal

Doesn't Sherwood have wonderful descriptive powers? Especially when she goes on about the exotic fare the islanders eat:

"Breakfast was tea and fried biscuits, sometimes a piece of cheese. Lunch was the same, the biscuits wrapped in brown paper, and Winston had tea sweetened with a drop of canned condensed milk when he came home. At dinner, if he was lucky, his mother prepared pelau -- rice and pigeon peas, rice and salt pork, or rice with curried eggplant. At Christmas the treat was dark fruitcake saturated with rum, pastelles wrapped in banana leaf, ginger beer, and roti with curried chicken." Mal, thanks for telling us what these foods really are!

Another question: What do they mean by "Before Americanization?" Is that before all the tourists started invading the Caribbean islands? I didn't think that was singularly American, though!

Lorrie

MALRYN makes an excellent point when she said "Winston did not die when he fell through the roof, yet he saw Basil." What do the rest of you think about Basil?

DOLPHINDLI - Capoon - isn't that interesting! I know all the ingredients except for the grape leaves which I never tasted. Are they just ordinary grape leaves or a special kind? You must tell Ginny what she's missing if she's not eating them - she grows grapes on her farm! Sounds something like cabbage rolls only we put meat in those.

And I've eaten fresh cocoanut and even chewed on sugar cane in Costa Rica - and that is one sweet tasty chew!!! We went on a thrilling white water rafting trip there and on a stop at one side of the river to see a rare sloth hanging from a tree, one of the guides got out and cut us off some sugar cane in the fields, delicious stuff! Didn't do a thing to cure my "insides" during that trip though - whew was that frightening!

I will make this comment upon men drinking in the face of adversity - I've read and heard much more about men turning to the bottle for consolation than I have ever heard of women doing same.

How about the rest of you? How does a woman typically react when she cannot face misfortune. I would venture a guess that a woman becomes depressed, but that is merely an opinion. Wonder if any studies have been done in this area?

WHERE IS BETTY GREGORY???? She would know.

CHARLIE - As I said before I'm not a short story reader and I was startled to read about the daughter's death at the beginning of the story, and I'm not so sure I'm happy about it either. Why is this effective do you think? Do the rest of you like this technique

Malryn I took your advice about search engines! "Parang" is:

Parang are Spanish/Venezuelan carols traditionally associated with house-to-house visiting and hospitality. During the Parang Festival, held Sept. 30 through Dec. 16, the carols are performed by costumed bands throughout the holiday season in bars, concert halls and hotels, as well as at private parties. The festival culminates with a major national competition.

Lorrie - where is that phrase "Before Americanization?"

HATS - I hope you don't mind if I quote you - "I love to read a short story before I go to bed. I do suffer with insomnia. Short stories are like a sleeping pill. They help me to relax"

That is something to consider and I just might do that. I always read before I go to bed and with a short story there is not a continuation that might keep you awake later than you think, but an ending to close the day with. I like that suggestion!.

Good grief!

And on another subject. Literature is rife with examples of the physical presence of death....death need not follow.
Charlie

Good grief, CHARLIE BROWN!

Good point to consider!

Please click the link below to hear a parang song called "El Gavilan".

El Gavilan

CharlieW, I am unfamiliar with V.S. Naipul. Now, I am anxious to use Google and look him up. Thanks for the recommendation.

I am still confused about who or what Basil symbolizes. I am torn between the replies of Malryn and Dolphindli. Perhaps, I need to go read the story once again.

So, that will be my bedtime assignment tonight.

I am still thinking about Basil. Perhaps, Basil is a part of the Trinidad Folklore. I think Basil is the embodiment or personification of everything bad. If the child or adult did not have Basil, they probably would blame themselves for all that goes wrong. I know the family says their "Hail Mary's" and the mother counts the beads of the rosary, but I do not think their Catholicism has replaced all of their native myths.

I do wonder why Winston has to work at such a young age. He is only ten years old. He has trouble reaching the brown paper in the chemist's shop, and he cuts his fingers. What drove me crazy is that he had to buy his own Bandages! Are their some child labor laws being broken?

CHARLIE, CHARLIE, CHARLIE "And the drink -- well, that's a man thing in the face of adversity as far as I'm concerned. YOW!"

My statement was not directed AT YOU! But, in the story, the father lost his job -- he drank; he lost his daughter -- he drank ---- he drank and belittled his son. Whereas, the mother, suffering the same financial and emotional loss as the family, still had family responsibility and instead of tearing the family apart, she did everything to mend the "fences." She did appear to be the strength -- she took care of her dying mother; she took care of her sister; she took care of her daughter and she was proud of Winston. There was no father pride here for his son.

Charlie, I lived over a saloon and across from a major soda ash factory and what I observed from childhood was that during strikes the men were in the bar drinking; during domestic crisis, the men were in the bar drinking, during lunch hours, the men were in the bar drinking; on payday, the men were in the bar drinking. I was in the bar a lot during my childhood simply for the fact that my Mother was the barmaid. Is my observation any wonder? Help me out here Charlie! It appears I have a distorted image of the male as head of the household, but then again Charlie, I do not attribute my emotions to all males. I am just equating with the father in the story and expressing my opinion.

Marlin - no Basil did not die and here I must agree with Charlie's statement: ..."the physical presence of death....death need not follow." I believe Winston saw Basil during his fall because he had a "near death experience" and, although Basil (death) lingered, it/he was cheated by Winston.

To Hats' comment "I do wonder why Winston has to work at such a young age." I would say that because the father was unemployed, income, no matter how small was needed to help sustain the family obviously because Winston could not save his money for his bike -- instead he had to turn it over to his father! I also understand that the fact that Winston had to buy his own Bandages bothered you, but he worked in a pharmacy where one of the product being sold was 'bandages." Keep in mind, that the store operator was also the one who brought free medicine and sweet treats to Margaret. He couldn't have been all bad.

As far as labor laws in the 50's in Trinidad, I don't know and don't feel like researching; however, right here in the good old US of A, I got working papers at 13 years of age and believe it or not, my first job ever, was gifting wrapping at a downtown religious shop -- so I well know that big roll of paper and all the paper cuts. But, I must say, I turned into one helluva good gift wrapper. (PS - I too gave all my money to my Mother).

Ella: Hmmm - a little knock at Clinton there? I will attribute it to your toothache. lol. Hope you are feeling better. Also the grape leaves -- the Greek's have an appetizer made with grape leaves stuffed with rice and herbs and the leaf is eaten along with the stuffing. We do not eat the grape leave, it is merely to hold the shape of the stuffing. You mentioned cabbage rolls, Perrogi, I believe (probably spelled wrong, but I don't want to look anything up today). I love those.

Ella also mentioned she at sugar cane and experienced white rafting which must have been a great experience. Myself? I took a mule trip down the Grand Canyon which is something I will share with you when we speak of adventures. But, unlike you Ella, we had a full ranch house, family style steak dinner at the bottom of the Grand Canyon - what an awesome, scarry, invigorating, emotionally packed lifetime experience.

Some of the other things that were brought to light in the story: a form of birth control practiced by Mrs. Rama (p.332); offerings to the Sacred Heart to insure food in the house; the spider for healing a wound. I laughed at the spider part cause my Mom always said spiders were a sign of good luck so you shouldn't kill them. Instead, she used to flush them down the toilet. Was I missing something with my Mom's theory?

I also think I found of picture of Winston's Basil. I don't know how to add a picture, or I would have but hopefully this works. I'd like to ask each of you what you think of "Basil" -- in the picture below linked, sitting against a fawn?

Dolphindli

http://www.Ask Jeeves Answer:Folklore&LegendsofTrinidad&Tobago

Dolphindli, I understand what you are saying, but I just get really uncomfortable when I think of children working at such an early age. Ten years old??? My boys worked part time while in high school. It did not bother my husband, but it bothered me.

I think the bandages should have been given to Winston, but that's a small point. I think children should be children. The financial concerns of the family should not involve the children. They should not have to work to help. Of course, that's my small opinion.

I am anxious to look up that website. Thank you.

HATS

One of the things I most like about these Books discussions is that references in the books and stories we read lead to a search, which leads to another and another, thus giving me information I didn't have before.

I have yet to find anything that resembles Basil the Dog except La Diablesse in the searches I've done of African, Hindu, Caribbean, Trinidad and Tobago superstitions and folklore. Dolphin, the picture you found is an artist's rendition of Papa Bois, the father or protector of the forest and its inhabitants. He roams the forest in the form of a stag, and at one time it was said he caused the death of hunters. Click the link below for more.
Papa Bois
It's very difficult to pinpoint facts about Trinidad superstitions and myths because the cultures are so mixed. The majority of people there are African and East Indian. There are what they call "mixed", and there is a low percentage of European and Chinese. Because of this ethnic mixture, there are many different influences like Obeah, a religion based on sorcery from Africa, voodoo, plus superstitions from Europe and China. Perhaps if one studied the predominantly Calypso music of Trinidad, influences might become more clear. Calypso music and the tales in it are similar to what old minstrels did. There are also numerous different religions in Trinidad, not just Christianity.

HATS, Winston worked Saturday mornings to earn money for a bicycle he wanted that invariably ended up in his father's pocket to help with household expenses. I don't find this little job he had hard to understand. How many kids have worked as errand boys or girls on their day off from school?

Abuse of alcohol is not just a "man" thing. If you spent one hour in an Al Anon meeting, you would hear stories from men about how their wives or girlfriends are addicted to alcohol, the disease of alcoholism inevitably causing a family problem. Women generally drink at home, not at pubs and bars, so their drinking is more concealed than that of men.

I'll perhaps be back later with a comment or two about the grandmother's illness, the next part of this story.

Mal

Mal, Your right. Winston only worked on Saturday mornings. Now, I feel better. I got all excited about nothing.

HATS

Ella, I hope your root canal goes more smoothly and with less results than Sue's did in the last short story we read, hahaah, just as well you missed that one. Hope you are OK!

Basil reminds me of two things right off the bat,

1. As several of you have said, Death Itself, especially as used to be personified in those old paintings and drawings, hovering around the sick bed or the roof when a child fell off, perhaps, waiting hopefully. Those old hooded figures used to scare me to death, Death Itself was attendant on the sickbed, does anybody but me remember them?

The second thing is, as the current television show Touched by an Angel portrays him:

2. The "Angel of Death: " certainly in the show, when he shows up, you know somebody is bad off.

Except Basil is no angel, he's the antithesis of an angel, and it's very interesting in this first part in what guise he does appear and in how he smells and and when he comes: "Basil came when the world held its breath before break of day, and in rolling clouds of thunder." He also appraises the passers-by, looking for? Signs of weakness??

(The press reported that the actor who plays the Angel of Death on Touched by an Angel nearly caused great anxiety among the other passengers when the show first started, when he would board airplanes for a flight). hahahahaa)

He's in Father McCauley's breath of anise and gin, showing the darker side of the priest, as well. He's in the touch of mosquitoes and worms and in those things he symbolizes, maybe , the inevitablitiy or threat of death. But the fact that he is no comforting angel is really interesting.

I have enjoyed the explanations of the Trinidad foods and words, what an exotic locale this is for this story and a supersitious one, too, in which every single thing seems to have a soul or presence. So it's not surprising that there would be an angel of death, but that he would not be an angel. That's what surprises me in Part I. I wonder what it means?

That and Winston's name since my own husband is named Winston. Charlie, I now know how you felt in that other story. hahahaha

ginny

Mal is right on target about the difference between men and women drinkers. Men tend to need someone to drink with. One buddy, chum, wife, girlfriend, you name it; men usually prefer not to drink alone. That is why bars make profits.

Female alcoholics most often prefer to drink privately and at home. They buy the alcohol secretly, hide it, and sneak it when no one is around. I knew one who hid her liquor in the toilet tank! She would get up after everyone else was asleep and wander through the house in her nightgown drinking until ready to pass out in bed.

"In the midst of life, we are in death"---isn't that from the Book of Common Prayer? All I know is it is a sentence stuck in my head that "Basil the Dog" brings to mind. Death waits in all places for his opportunity--or maybe it is just his job--and young Winston has seen him three times before his sister's death.

Seeking escape in alcohol is not gender-specific. Women do tend to drink at home--or historically did--because that is where they are or were. Men drink in bars because they are Not at home--(boy am I generalizing).

Trinidad was part of the British Commonwealth until 1962. The story is set in 1950. I think of Winston Churchill, enormously popular at the time. And also Princess Margaret who was then in her teens. In 1952, I read a book called The Little Princesses. It was written by the governess to Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret. Margaret was far prettier than her sister. The girls called their governess "Crawfie," but I cannot remember her full name.

~Maryal

All this commenting on Death, and where it can be reported as implied in this short story, plus the interesting link of Mal's to Carribean folklore and religions, made me think of another religion that I've been interested in before---Santeria. The interwwining of the Catholic customs and the African rites makes a fascinating subject. Here's a link:

SANTERIA

Lorrie

Some of you have said Basil is Death itself, or the embodiment of everything bad, or the portent of Death and yet Basil is still a mystery to me. Winston's family is Catholic, he attends church, where does this little boy get his idea of Basil? This creature of his imagination is an evil thing, whether he be a dog or a bird, he's nasty, and why does Winston think that death is evil? And where does he even get the idea of "evil" itself?

And as was asked in the heading, why does Winston need Basil the dog, at all? What was the author attempting to do here?

Without exploring our own religious convictions, do you perceive death as an evil thing? Does Catholicism? I don't think so.

Another question asked in the heading was which of the two faiths described in the story, Catholicism and their native faith, was the stronger or the one most believed and how is this portrayed.

Let's begin a discussion about the characters in this short story which consists of the family of four, and the extended family of the grandmother "Nenin" and Auntie Elizabeth.

Which character seems to be the stronger? Which the weaker? Perhaps in examining each character we may discover the reason for Basil the dog, the title of the story.

Thanks so much for the clickables - they add so much to our discussion.

One thing I know to be true - root canals make it impossible to concentrate on any subject too long, the mind gives way to the pain of it all. Tomorrow may be better.

Ella----Use ice pack----10 minutes on, 10 off and so forth. It really helps. I have recently had oral surgery. So sorry to hear about the root canal. Ouch.

Maryal

Ella, so sorry about your root canal hurting! You and Sue in the last story, so sorry.

Now are we still supposed to be confining our remarks to a particular section? I may have misunderstood that direction.

I think supersition can exist right along with religion especially in places where there is already a flourishing native culture, we do see later a sort of witch doctor and the author is pretty clear from the outset that superstitions govern this family, I mean the paper in the shoe, it's endless.

And what is supersititon but an attempt to control the fates? I remember reading Pearl Buck and all the supertitions in China, and we have them here in America, too, although not as much. The "signs" being right for planting. How many times have you heard to plant your seeds on Good Friday? To cut your wild onions on a certain date so they will die in your yard? The "signs" being right for making jelly, for instance. If you read the old Foxfire books you will find people doing things by "signs" in order to influence the result just like the Romans examined entrails of birds to determine....the "signs."

I thought as the story went on that there was a real break between the religious beliefs of the characters and their Roman Catholicism, myself.

As to which religion is "stronger," I guess it depends on which one gives the most hope and comfort and which one they are more used to. I would say offhand that Winston's father had no use for any religion and just like the Devil in The Screwtape Letters, Basil enjoys that a lot.

Why couldn't you have Basil as representation of Evil? Don't all societies and religions recognize the presence of evil?

ginny

Personally, I do not think of death as evil. However, I am not looking forward to dying. I feel that it is a cessation of life. To me it is a loss of the people I love: my husband, my children, my friends.

Therefore, I look at death as an important part of my life. I feel that I must look at death an a stage in life, and each stage in life does not come easily. Each stage brings a different emotion. As I have looked at death, as not a monster, but something new that I have not experienced and must experience I have almost learned to accept it.

My acceptance has come by not focusing on death but on life. Then, when death approaches, as it does each day I grow older, I will not have any regrets.

HATS

In my first post in this discussion, I said that Basil is Winston's devil, evil with a D! Yes, there are supersitions in nearly every culture. It's funny, too, how they differ state by state and area by area in the United States. The superstitions in North Carolina and other places I've lived in the Southeast are not what I saw growing up in New England or when I lived in New York and Indiana. The Old Farmer's Almanac, which once was just a New England publication, used to be full of them.

Now back to the story. I have to convince myself that I like the sort of outline "format" in which Sherwood wrote.

Mal

This is a haunting story. Sad, in a sense, particularly when dealing with a child's death but overall there's a feel for the island life. Reading this story, one can almost hear a calypso beat and imagine the soft voices with the island patois.

I feel that Basil embodies the appearance of death, a figment of a boy's imagination--thus enabling him deal with the deaths of loved ones in the only way he knows how.

As to the existence of evil, many clergymen maintain that it's self-evident: If we believe there is goodness in the world, then there must also be evil.

Ginny: I, for one, still believe that there is a devil, and I remember vividly the former prayers after Mass, where the congregation prayed for the "repose of Satan, who roams through the world, seeking the ruination of souls, etc." Old habits die hard.

Ella: I know exactly what you must be feeling with that dreaded root canal stuff! My heart goes out to you!

Lorrie

Yes, Ella, I hope you're feeling better today, and that the antibiotic, if you're taking one, is working quickly. Teeth problems are no doggoned fun. Seems like the season for root canal work. Some people in the Café were talking about having the very same thing.

Back to Basil. It's interesting to see that when the roof of the abandoned Grill collapses under Winston, he starts to fall, grabs at air and says, "Hail Mary, full of grace." After he lands and opens his eyes, he sees the Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, in the shape of his mother, Dr. Woo, the Chinese doctor, and his sister, Margaret. Basil, meanwhile, "gnashed his teeth in anger and frustration" and left; the loser. A battle between good and bad, perhaps?

The scene the author describes is certainly primitive by our standards. Combine civilization, as represented by the Catholic Church, with primitivism, and the author comes up with the Virgin Mary and Basil. I think underlying this story is a commentary about a society which consists of both. It is possible that Basil is Winston's imaginative figure for all things bad. Basil is probably based on myths and superstitions he's heard about the Soucouyant from his mother, who keeps salt handy to protect her family from this vampire, and other creatures of myth and superstition.

I don't really think there's a conflict between the primitive and the civilized in this story. Rather, I think Sherwood is showing that in the particular culture she describes, they go hand in hand.

Mal

To answer your question, Ginny, I did post in my first message about discussing this story in stages, but as it is such a short story and all seem to be enjoying the "whole of it" let's just continue in this vein.

And several of you have said that the primitive religion and the organized religion of Catholicism do go hand in hand; but isn't it sad that while the mother, taking no chances, prays to Mary and the Saints and does homage to the obeah in the native rituals, she loses those most dear to her heart. Why we ask, as in real life, does not the good live and the bad die? Would you as an author, have sweet and mischievous Margaret live while killing off the father who drank and cursed? Do authors believe the readers enjoy such terrible misfortunes? Must the good die to illustrate those that are living?

I don't know. Those of you that have read the other short stories in this collection, are there always disasters of one kind or another?

HATS does not think of death as evil, but Lorrie says evil does exist and there is a devil. My own belief is that death is as natural as life and I also believe that birth was a death.

Ginny asks And what is superstiton but an attempt to control the fates? And Malryn mentions The Farmers Almanac - superstitions handed down through the generations. Do any of you practice any? Are they tempting or are we losing faith in the old ways, the old superstitions. The only one that comes to my mind at the moment is throwing salt over your shoulder, but, gosh, now I can't remember why we were supposed to do that? What the occasion was? I think I remember doing it and laughing about it - oh, and I do still knock on wood if I can find real wood around that is. For good luck, do you? I'm not about to abandon all of them, but do I believe it matters? No, not at all.

The very first misfortune that happens in the story is Winston falling through the roof and, as Malryn pointed out, Winston FIRST said a Catholic prayer and then thought of Basil. But in the next disasters to this unfortunate family Winston sees only Basil. Is this significant? With each death occurring in the family Basil or Evil becomes more real to the boy and I am wondering if Winston leaves his island home, not only to do "serious battle" with disease, but also with evil? Could he become a priest for example and find comfort in religion?

I'll be back later with a start into the characters in this story. Of course, Winston is the protagonist, but those surrounding him have a profound effect on the boy and the story.

Thanks for your good wishes on my tooth problem. The pain is gone, but the Post and Crown (sounds like an Irish Pub) are yet to be installed to the tune of $1400 for the whole thing! That's terrible when you have no dental insurance - my teeth are dying before the rest of me, and that's evil!! Hahah

I have to say here that Mr. Rama was not "bad".

He was the man "who wore a white shirt and a tie. He could add up numbers in his head as fast as Mrs. Rama could say her rosary."

He was the man who played with his children and gave them money, holding it in his hands behind his back and asking which hand it was in.

He was also the man who lost his accounting job, in which he apparently took much pride and was the way he supported his family.

He was beaten and broken, and the pain he suffered when his favorite child, Margaret, died was horribly severe. He took it out on Winston, his other child, in his terrible frustration about what life had done to him and his family, perhaps a self-identification here.

Mr. Rama was trapped and knew no way to get out or ease his pain except through alcohol, but he absolutely was not "bad".

His plight, which probably was not uncommon among men in Trinidad at that time, is, I believe, part of Ms Sherwood's portrayal of the society about which she writes.

Mal

Ella, I do hope you are feeling better. Your questions make me want to read the story again and again. I am like you I can not remember a lot of the superstitions that I grew up with as a child. It does seem that most of the ones I heard, I heard about during my growing up years.

I can get a good laugh out of the ones I remember now: for some reason, something would happen if you walked on the crack of a sidewalk, and I think my mother became screamish if you opened an umbrella in the house. I remember the one about knocking on wood, to this day, I hear that one. Of course, there was Friday the thirteenth. You had to be awfully cautious on that day or something bad would happen. Oh, growing up, we were not supposed to walk under a ladder. I can not remember what would happen. I know it was something undesirable.

Now, that I give it some thought I think my mother was more superstitious than my father. I do not know if superstition is stronger in one gender versus another gender.

HATS

Oh, Ella, and Hats! I had an Irish grandmother, who was seriously into old superstitions and taboos, and I can remember her admonitions about "a hat on the bed means disappointment," (also two in a mirror), the ususal warnings, like knock on wood, avoid walking under ladders, the significance of dropped silver, broken mirrors, etc. I still remember Grandma's insistence that she could hear the "wail of the banshee" every time someone close died! She actually believed in these things, and yet was a loyal and devout Catholic.

Ella, Sure glad the expensive root canal work is fini!

Ginny: I also feel that superstitions and organized religion can exist side by side! Your post made me think, thank you!

Lorrie

MALRYN - I agree, that was not a good word to use to describe Mr. Rama; however, despite the qualities you mentioned, he insisted that his wife's mother, very ill with cancer, had to leave the house because she was unsightly. What word to describe this? Cruelty? In contrast to the patience and the love of Mrs. Rama and Margaret, the father's actions before, and decidedly after, the rum took him were despicable.

Incidentally, in rereading about Nenin I noticed that she was given morphine at the hospital (followed by a dose of gin??) - I am reading at the moment this huge biography of Eugene O'Neill whose mother was addicted to morphine and she could buy it easily at any druggist without a prescription up until the year 1914 . To be sure I was correct in the date, I tried to find that part in the book but I am way past that point so for your information here is a site giving the history of opium.

History of Opium

Margaret is almost too good to be true - a child of twelve, a good student, a wonderful nurse to Nenin, she

helped to wash the old woman, stroking her face with clear, cool water from a bowl on the floor and soaping her neck and shoulders with a soft cheesecloth…..she boiled cornmeal pap with evaporated milk into a thin gruel.. when changing her grandmother's gown, Margaret did it quickly and gently.

What an angel! It rather surprised me to read that Margaret was banished from the room in which Auntie Elizabeth lay giving birth, I think Margaret could have been a help and taken it all in her stride. And what a courageous child she was in dying, giving her treasure to Winston and also trying to give him a little hope at the end when she tried to stand.

More later------eg

Ginny referenced: "Basil came when the world held its breath before break of day, and in rolling clouds of thunder."

Confusion does abound because Basil also came "...in health....in youth...in the midst of cheer... with the cool breeze of late not... r on days so hot that event the hummingbird stayed still...clean water...bicycle spokes...Alice in Wonderland...."

And that is why I contend that Basil is death -- not the Angel of Death but a cognizance that death is lingering. 0ooohhhhh ooooohhhh oooohhhhh.

And, Mal, thanks for that Papa Bois site -- very interesting. Sorry about my link to the "other creature." Guess I got so excited over the picture - I didn't read the words.

Yes, Laurie - my Mom was the same way with superstitions. In fact I think that some of it must have rubbed off on my 17 year old granddaughter, Jackie. They were all over for pizza last Saturday and my daughter operates a home day care facility - Pooh's Corner Day Care and loves everything POOH. Well, I bought and gave to her, with some other stuff, an umbrella with a Pooh insignia. WELL, when my daughter started to open the umbrella in the house, Jackie screamed like a banshee - I have never seen her so upset, crying and yelling that if she did that something very bad would happen. I couldn't believe it. Never, in my wildest dreams would I have imagined Jackie to be "the one" with the superstition. lol

I also just realized that if feminine spelling, a woman wrote the story. Isn't that funny - I just assumed it was a man writing? Wonder why?

It would be great on this story if we could get a hold of the author and ask her what she deemed Basil to be!I.

Caio for now Dolphindli

This is what I read:

"Unfortunately, Nenin's pain increased, and she wasn't always able to be taken to the latrine in the yard in time; she dribbled and had to wear a bib, and when she could, she smoked a rough country pipe, stinking up the house so that Mr. Rama said Nenin would have to go." It's a little hard for me to know whether Mr. Rama sent Nenin out of the house because of her illness or the pipe-smoking or both.

I am sensitive about labelling people addicted to alcohol in negative ways because I am a recovering alcoholic myself, a fact I have not hesitated to post in other discussions. I have also spent many years of my recovery working with alcoholics and people addicted to both prescribed and illegal drugs. Addiction to alcohol is as much a disease as the cancer Nenin had. There was no way or place where Mr. Rama could seek help for his disease apparently, just as medical help for Nenin was practically nonexistent at that time in that society, something else Ms Sherwood portrays in this story.

About opium. Laudanum contained opium and was freely available for over the counter purchase up to the end of the 19th century. Lydia Pinkham's compound contained opium and was freely available to any woman who wanted to buy it. Paregoric also contained opium. Ever use that for your child's gums when he or she was teething? I know that I did in my ignorance about what the medicine actually was.

Mal

Please click the link below for a picture of Frances Sherwood.

Frances Sherwood

Thank you for the photo of Frances Sherwood, Malryn, we'd looked all over the place! Glad to have it.

Lorrie and Ella and Hats mention superstitions and Ella asked if any of us still practice any, I know, silly and strange as it sounds, I only make jelly by the "signs," which happens to be the new moon. Have never had a batch to fail that way, and have had plenty of disasters on the full moon, but then again, it may be all happenstance.

But when you think about Hats's quote of the "step on a crack and you break your mother's back," it's not hard to extrapolate if you half way believed that, then if you got a backache, you might wonder who was stepping on a crack about YOU and then need to do a potion or something to off set it and after a while you'd be caught in a really untenable maze of stuff all over one natural occurrence, which is what I think is happening here.

Margaret died because they were playing in the polluted river, right? While their Aunt, who also died, was giving birth in the next room. Winston's young life has been full of strife and angst and adults behaving very emotionally and not of comfort for him for whatever reason, and it's not strange to me that he sees the opposite of happiness and health embodied in the Dog Basil.

I thought Ella asked some very provocative questions: why a dog, what does it really symbolize, why does the child NEED the dog?

I think the child needs the dog because by putting Evil in one package dressed like a dog, he can separate it from his own life. You say death is not evil? It sure doesn't seem peaceful to me, in this story? In fact it seems the opposite, much suffering, screaming, tumult, cursing, removal from house, loss of facilities which apparently nobody would attempt to deal with, it's an unhappy time in their household, it would take on the Spectre of Unhappiness to me, too, especially if I were a child.

Ella asked if all our short stories in this series had such dramatic events:

I don't know. Those of you that have read the other short stories in this collection, are there always disasters of one kind or another?

That's a good question, too. I would not say that there were disasters, per se, but certainly something on which the plot could turn. I guess The Fix had the possibility of disaster at the end, I didn't consider Charles's conversion to Judaism a disaster, but it was a startling event, The Thing Around Them certainly had the presence (not shown AS Basil but nonetheless menacing) of evil threatening constantly, emmmm..... what do you all think of the rest of them?

ginny

Mal, thank you for the picture of Frances Sherwood. It helps to see the person who writes the story, and I believe we honor them by showing their picture or showing their interview.

I have been thinking about why Winston left the island. He says to do "serious battle." I think Winston left because he felt smothered by the prevalent religion, Catholicism, and by the myths of the island. Like many of us, he grew up only hearing and seeing the traditions of his family.

Being an observant little boy and probably more aware as he grew to adulthood, he knew that tragedies happened to people whether they were good or bad. He knew tragedy had no rhyme or reason. Therefore, he knew he had to get away and discover new ideas. The best place to do that would be a place that offered higher learning, a university.

In the process of looking for new answers, he might have become a doctor, a priest or maybe a philosopher. Anyway, by this point, I think Winston became a questioner. He no longer wanted to be spoon fed the answers of his ancestors.

I like Winston because he left the island. I wish their were a second part to the story. I bet we would learn that Winston came back to the island with new ideas.

I found it interesting that in the back of the book Frances Sherwood wrote that Basil was a mystery to her. "Basil, of course, was and is a mystery to me, and that is why I made him so concrete." So, maybe we will never know what Basil represents.

HATS

It was interesting to me to go in Photos Then and Now and see photographs of raptors which Joan Grimes took. Among them was a picture of a barn owl. A man came in and posted that when his wife died a barn owl came to his house. There was mention that if a sick person hears the sound of an owl it means that death is nearby.

There are so many superstitions. Some I remember from my childhood. My mother became upset if an umbrella was opened in the house because it meant that someone would die. I never walked under ladders when I was a kid. Friday the thirteenth was something to worry about, and worry we did. When I had polio at the age of 7 in 1935, the aunt my parents gave me to refused to let me go to a hospital because she was convinced that sick people who went into hospitals always died.

Winston certainly learned a lot when his Auntie Elizabeth came to his house to have her baby. How many of you were born at home? I was, and what a risk that could be.

It was Margaret's death that affected Winston the most. When Margaret died, the nuns said, "God needed her more than we did." Winston's father said, "God's rump, God's face, God go to hell, you stupid, stupid." Winston "wildly agreed" with his father. The death of his sweet sister was too much, too much to bear. The author says that it was perhaps then that Winston knew he must leave the island.

Winston was a bright little boy. He used the encyclopedia in the library to look up things he didn't know. I have a feeling he realized early that there was more to life than what he saw. Primitive, meager housing, unsanitary, unhealthful conditions, lack of money for more than just existence, unnecessary death. The way to escape this was through education.

Mal

Mal asks how many of us were born at home. Winston's aunt did not have a good experience. I was born in a hospital. My boys were born in the hospital. I married in 1973 so, it was around that time when Lamaze was popular. My husband and I took classes. My births were not pleasant. I never could find the focus point and my breathing lapsed into yells.

I understood Auntie Elizabeth's need to make her feelings known through contradictory words: "She wanted to know if anybody had ever loved her, name one....She wanted a real doctor for God's sake, she wanted to die, to live, to die." I am thankful my husband does not remember everything I said during those days and nights of labor.

For me, this is the only humor in the story. Am I crazy? Aunt Elizabeth's words during labor really cracked me up. I knew how she felt.

On a heavier note, I do remember my sister talking about giving birth at home. She talked about boiling water and newspapers and the loss of a twin boy. It all sounded quite frightening. She was twenty one years older than me. Much younger, I had to eavesdrop. Therefore, I missed the whole story, and when grownups whisper around children, whatever they are saying becomes kind of discombobulating or causes discomforture.

HATS

Oh, I am just so thankful to all of you for bringing so much more to this discussion than I could ever have thought of and you have my eternal gratitude.

Malryn: Thanks for finding that picture, I don't want to know which Search Engine - I tried several and then gave up.

And HATS - I am going back to the story to read that part of Auntie Elizabeth over, because I don't remember that right now. You are so wonderful with all your comments and I appreciate having you in this discussion so very much.

And Ginny actually has proven that her jelly does better when she makes it under a new moon!! Perhaps there is more to these superstitions that we think, huh?

I'm on the run today, hither and yon, but tonight will be back for a more in-depth read of your comments and possibly have a few of my own. I've been watching Ken Burns' JAZZ series, which is just wonderful, but there is not a segment tonight, so I'll have time then to get back on the computer.

Until then………eg

Hats, I like your comments, all of them! There's a wealth of opinions being brought out with this short story, especially about the aura of mixed "pagan" and stereotyped religions.

There are two characters in this story that I like better than Winston. Mrs. Rama, his mother, who is such a hard-working, organized person, even though she keeps a pan of salt under her bed to to toss on the "soucouyant" (spirits) who appear at night, and Margaret, Winston's little sister, who was so caring with their grandmother, and who met her own death with such grace.

Lorrie

Lorrie, I love Margaret too. What a little girl! So kindhearted and giving. Reading about Margaret made me realize again that we can learn much from children. Perhaps, children have a lot of love to give because they are so innocent. Margaret's loving strokes must have helped her grandmother endure the awful pain of the cancer.

In this culture, we learn to protect our children from pain and death. In this culture, it seems to be different. When we protect our children from life's tragedies, do we protect them from the art of love? I just wonder.

Lorrie and Ella can you see Ginny's jars of jelly on a shelf in from of a sunshiny window? I can. Yummy!

HATS

Sure, what wonderful colors can we see there, right? Hope all the signs were right for her last batch! Wonder if she took any jam/jelly with her to her son's wedding?

Lorrie

Click the link below for a very interesting article about language and writing by Jhumpa Lahiri.
Scroll down for the link to her article.

Jhumpa Lahiri

Mal, I enjoyed the article. There are a lot of good tips about writing. I am glad you took the time to find the article. I will reread it. There is so much in it. I could not digest it all at once.

HATS

HATS, I just ran across it when I was looking for something else at that site. A lucky break, that's all.

Mal

Now to return to the story. I was born at home, in fact all six of us children (6 girls) were born at home; these were depression years and as MALRYN mentioned people in those days were frightened of hospitals. Perhaps they had a right to be - were instruments sterilized properly, were nurses and doctors wearing rubber gloves, were garments and bedclothes changed everyday, were there isolation wards for contagious diseases? I don't know all the answers to those questions, but I do know they were frightened as they all knew people who had gone and never came back alive. Even today there is danger of infections in hospitals and, heaven knows, they do what they can to prevent them.

The times I have been hospitalized, I was outraged at the beautiful little instruments, carefully made of stainless steel, that are thrown away! Just pitched! But when I asked if they could not be sterilized and used again, I was told the energy to sterilize would cost more than the product. Can you swallow that?

My babies were born in a hospital, but it was before the days of Lamaze. HATS you are just a young thing - Haha I was married in 1950 and the first one came in 1953. And Auntie Elizabeth certainly was not in a humorous mood when she was crying out - the poor thing! But if you thought it was funny, I say laugh it up. This story doesn't contain anything else that could be considered even light, except perhaps the love and affection between brother and sister. I did think that it was sweet that both wanted to buy the other a bicycle when they grew up and became rich.

GINNY said "I think the child needs the dog because by putting Evil in one package dressed like a dog, he can separate it from his own life. You say death is not evil? It sure doesn't seem peaceful to me, in this story? Death is not peaceful most times, Ginny, there is pain, there is suffering by the patient and the loved ones, but I do believe that is not evil. I looked up the word in the dictionary and here are a few meanings: morally bad or wrong, sinful, harmful, malicious, etc. Can we characterize death by those terms? But certainly I can understand how a 10-year-old little boy would think death evil and I agree that he needed to separate himself and that evil, and hence Basil.

And as LORRIE said Mrs. Rama was such a hard-working, organized person. More about her tomorrow. What did you think of her attitude toward Margaret's death? Is it believable? Can faith, whether it be Catholic or primitive, be that strong? Do you sense in this story that life is somehow reduced to a simpler fact of life than we know it in this modern world? I'm not stating that well, but perhaps you can understand?

Where is everybody today? The weather getting you down? We have about an inch of snow outside - may get more and it's just lovely!

Before we leave this discussion I would like to have your opinions about Mrs. Rama, the mother in this story. Let me quote a couple of things from the book pertaining to her and the remark she made concerning her daughter's death:

"Winnie, what do you think your sister will feel if she knows you don't even go to her own funeral, eh?"

To his mother, Margaret was walking up in the clouds, probably looking down and getting heaven ready for the rest of them, much like straightening up the house on Friday.

Did the author truly believe it was that simple for Mrs. Rama? The phrase much like straightening up the house on Friday struck me as very cold.

What did you think about it?

Oh, I am so glad to have found you! I lost you for a few days. I thought the link for Basil the dog was the place where you could read the story - I just realized now that it was a link to the discussion. Thank goodness there is a discussion going!!

Linda

Ella, I don't believe that Margaret's mother was feeling rather cold at her death. Witness her frantic attempts to help her daughter, first by giving her Mrs. Rama's bed, with all the interesting things underneath, being in constant attendance with her, calling in the obeah man, then finally turning to Father MacCauley, who gave her the last rites. This woman wasn't as demonstrative as her husband in her grief, but I feel that she felt just as big a sense of loss.

Lorrie

Linda, it's good to see you here!

Hi Linda: We are about through discussing this story, but do read all the comments. I think we have covered it very well with the theme and characters and I, personally, found the discussion fascinating. It's amazing to me, who is not a short story reader, that a few pages can contain so much that is new and interesting and yet complex.

Yes, Lorrie, Mrs. Rama did everything possible that she could in taking care of Margaret while alive, but not only did she express any feeling of loss herself, but did nothing to comfort Winston or her husband after her daughter's death. However, many people cannot express their grief and this may explain her lack of compassion for others that her daughter had shown.

Just a few words to express my appreciation and thanks to all who participated in BASIL THE DOG. It was a delightful discussion and all of you were responsible for making it so and I hope to see you all soon in another book discussion. Also my thanks to Charlie for suggesting the book to all of us!

I want to thank all of you for this fine discussion. I'm happy that I was able to access three of these stories on the web so I could join in.

To me, Mrs. Rama was one who accepted death and life as it came. She took things in her stride and helped everyone she could. In my opinion, the story belonged to Winston, Margaret and Basil, though each character was well-drawn and well-defined in this most unusual story.

I have an announcement to make. The February issue of The WREX Pages is now on the World Wide Web. In it can be found a very important essay by Dr. Robert Bancker Iadeluca, known to us as Robby. Robby's essay is called "What is a Minority?", and it is an essay which should be read by each person in SeniorNet. This essay will also appear in the March-April issue of Sonata.

The writers represented in The WREX Pages are all participants in SeniorNet and are members of the WREX Writers Exchange in the Writing, Word Play and Language folder. You will recognize some of them, I know.

To access the index cover of this magazine, please click the link below. Scroll down to find "What is a Minority?"

The WREX Pages

I think Mrs. Rama is a very strong woman. After all, she has to put up with Mr. Rama. Sometimes when a person has a strong faith, they can seem to be unemotional, but I think, because of their deep faith, they look at the death in a different way. Already, Mrs. Rama could see Margaret in heaven. If she did not see Margaret in heaven, she probably would have expressed the same outburst of emotion as Mr. Rama.

She cared about Margaret just as much as Mr. Rama, but everyone expresses their grief in a different way. Unfortunately, I do think Winston was left alone to deal with his feelings about Margaret.

They were so close; Yet, no one talks to him. When the author writes, "Winston squatted resolutely, wrapping his arms around his knees, holding on for dear life, because he felt that if he did not grip himself hard, he might float up, up and away, like Superman...." This is where I really feel Winston's pain.

Anyway, I do feel Mrs. Rama loved Margaret deeply and did all she could for her during her illness. I agree with Lorrie.

HATS

Hi! I'm new to this discussion. I read the story and the comments about it with great interest. I followed Winston through his experiences of growing up. He seems to have accepted everything, tragedy and good times, with a kind of curiosity and wonder that made me want to be the one to sit down and tell him I understood how lonely he must be. The ending was very satisfying to me. Now Winston will have the opportunity to attend college and find his own way in life and I'm sure he will be successful and perhaps return to share some of his good fortune.

Hi, bmcinnis: Welcome to the group! We're so glad you liked the story, and we welcome your comments on this last one, "Basil the Dog!" Why not join us in a discussion on any of the other books we are talking about, whether ongoing or a coming event. Check out the choices, there's something to suit everyone's tastes! Hope to see you in any of the book discussions, and soon!

Lorrie

WELCOME BMCINNIS!

I just now turned on my computer and saw your email to me - I am so sorry I did not see it before. However, you discovered all by yourself how to post messages and we are so happy to welcome you in the Books.

We are finished with this discussion but there are so many other wonderful ones just beginning - go to one of them - all of them and post a message. Many of us get our books at the Library, but some prefer buying them, that is up to you.

Again, Welcome!

First, I also say WELCOME BMCINNIS! And before I continue my discussion of Basil, I would like to ask Ella, who said: "...but there are so many other wonderful ones just beginning - go to one of them -- all of them and post a message" - WHERE do we go for our next discussion; what are we reading for our next discussion. Can you point me (us) in the right direction? Thanks.

On with Basil and Ms. Rama - It appears to me that we are all of the same opinion of Ms. Rama was not "feeling rather cold at the death of her daughter, Margaret. Laurie also said: "This woman wasn't as demonstrative as her husband in her grief, but I feel that she felt just as big a sense of loss." And, wasn't it Mrs. Rama who had to nurse and take care of her daughter when she knew she was dying by giving her the best comfort she know how? Wasn't she the one who had to be strong for her daughter? And, her belief in a hereafter help sustain her grief by being truly able to believe that her beautiful daughter was walking among the Angels. Faith is a powerful thing.

As for Mr. Rama - sometimes it is those who moan the most during a death are the same ones who did the least during a life. To me it appeared that the children were afraid of the father and that after the loss of his job he had no relationship with them. Evidencing that was the fact that "Margaret, because she was a girl was not allowed to go of the house at night and instead would listen to the BBC on her father's big Telefunken radio if he was not at home, SNAPPING IT OFF QUICKLY WHEN SHE HEARD HIS FOOTSTEPS." (emphasis mine).

Maybe Mr. Rama's running through the house, "beating his head against the wall, knocking things down with one swipe.... as if with enough destruction he would be released from GRIEF," was not in fact seeking relief from grief, so muh as seeking a release from GUILT!

Dolphindli

Reader friends,

because of severe time constraints I was not able to actively participate in the discussion of the wonderful story about BASIL THE DOG, nor even read the posts every day.

I did enjoy what I read immensely and admire the breadth of the research several of you apparently had done.

May I thank you all, especially Mal for her link regarding Jhumpa Lahiri. I found the author's detailed (in places slightly defensive) comments absolutely fascinating and very revealing; her intense preoccupation with the spoken word in ANY language mirrors my own.

Many thanks,

Traude

Thanks to everyone who participated in the 2-month long discussion of these short stories. Who woulda thunk it? This discussion will remain open for a time so if there are other stories from this collection that particularly interested you – why not leave your thoughts here? Tell us about it. Perhaps there are others who share your views. I’ll be back this evening with some thoughts of my own.

Charlie

Oh, thanks Charlie, for keeping this open! That sounds like fun! I think I'll take another look at the book and see what looks good. Yay!

Linda

I'll say one of the stories I really didn't care for was Walter Moseley's Pet Fly. I got the distinct feeling that he was having us on as readers and that (pardon the pun) bugged me. Did I miss something here? More than likely…

We had a lot of discussion about funny stories (with an undercurrent of seriousness) and Z. Z. Packer's Brownies sure fit that bill. I liked this story a lot. Extremely funny in the beginning, but the overall effect really hits home at the end of the story. From the opening line (which was a real grabber):

"By the end of our first day at Camp Crescendo, the girls in my Brownie troop had decided to kick the asses of each and every girl in Brownie Troop 909."

To the end with "Snot's" realization that:

"there was something mean in the world that I could not stop"

This was a story that was entertaining and had a lot to say to me. What about you? What other stories, if any, particularly stand out?

Charlie

I think it was a wonderful reading experience and of great benefit to anyone who has checked in here these past few weeks. Short stories were given their due ! Too many readers shy away from them- which is truly a pity. I am grateful for the opportunity to explore some of them here with you.

Other stories in this collection I found remarkable for different reasons are : The Ordinary Son by Ron Carlson, the only recently discovered/resurrected Call If You Need Me by Raymond Carver, and Blind Josef Pronek by Aleksandar Hemon.

Traude

Traude mentions Carlson's THE ORDINARY SON, which is based, as many of the stories in this collection are, on intense memories of an earlier period in their lives. Isn't it unusual how many of these stories had that impetus? Or perhaps, not. Interesting thing about short stories. Can we say that the authors often find themselves with a small and intense memory that they need to express - or a loss that they need to deal with (NILDA by Junot Diaz for instance)? The short story seems a perfect medium. An exorcism of sorts. In some ways, the short story lays bare the artistic impulse itself. They seem sometimes almost as if they are written of necessity. A working out. A coping mechanism. The short story seems a more appropriate vehicle for the intensely personal, the immediate. The novel form, lends itself perhaps to the longer view. The grander vision. Although not always the case, I wonder if the impulse to write one vs. the other cannot be layed right here.

There are, to be sure, other considerations. For one, when we started here, we talked about the monetary reasons for the short story form. It can put a little bread on the table more readily. That's always been the case. Something to tide the writer over. The other view, though, has given me a new found respect for the form. As Traude says, no one can say we didn't give them their due here.

Charlie