WELCOME, WELCOME, TO OUR NEW BOOKS INTO MOVIES DISCUSSION! FOR THE NEXT FEW DAYS WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE UPCOMING MOVIE "CAPTAIN CORELLI'S MANDOLIN" WHICH WILL BE OPENING SOON AT A THEATRE NEAR YOU!

To begin with, have any of you formed an opinion on the cast that was chosen for this movie? Are you a fan of Nicholas Cage? John Hurt? Penelope Cruz? Let us know your thoughts. Everyone is welcome here!

Lorrie

Yes, I'm a big Nicholas Cage fan. He's done some great stuff - at least up through (and including) Leaving Las Vegas. Red Rock West and Raising Arizona - both great and quirky movies. Wild at Heart and the ever popular Moonstruck.

Penelope Cruz? Didn't see All the Pretty Horses. Was just too turned off by the mis-casting to believe in the movie. Seems right for this part, though. Not really sure about Nicholas.
Charlie

Right, Charlie!

It's interesting. When he was being interviewed about his role in this movie, Nicholas Cage admitted that the story had affected him quite a bit. He also mentioned that he was surprised that it was so easy for him to do the part, because he had always considered himself to be a "contemporary" actor, rather than a "period" one.

I believe Penelope Cruz can be seen almost daily in Hollywood news articles and channels. I haven't seen any of her movies yet.

John Hurt, of course, is a much-respected and venerable film actor, both here and abroad. I keep remembering the enigmatic role he played in the movie about the decadent life of the British colonials in Africa a couple of decades ago. He was very good.

Lorrie

The Elephant Man was probably his biggest role, but I still remember him in the movie version of 1984. John always looks so tired!


Charlie

I love (truly) Nicholas Cage and John Hurt. I agree that The Elephant Man was hurt's finest. What role will John Hurt play here the father? I am about 50 pages into the book and I am enjoying it. It's quite comical with the Greek and Italian accents of each character weaving in and out of the story. I have neven seen Penelope Cruz in anything but I did view the coming attractions last week. She speaks with her eyes and that is enough for me.

I have kept my atlas nearby trying to find all of these places as I read.

Alf, she is lovely, isn't she? John Hurt plays the part of her doctor-father, and I'm sure he will be great.

Another treat in the movie that we're in for is the fact that they shot the whole of this film in the Greek island of Cephalonia, and I understand the the scenic beauty of these sun-drenched islands is a joy to behold. Have any of you ever vacationed or traveled to this area?

Lorrie

Alejandro Rey for the Doctor!!

Am waiting for the release of the movie on Aug 17 and hope it is not ONLY in Boston but applies to the 'burbs as well !

Never saw Penelope Cruz. PARADE Magazine, a supplement in some Sunday papers around the country including the Boston Globe, had an article on her last Sunday, which I read with interest because of her role as Pelagia in the movie. John Hurt as he wise father ?? Really ? Well, we'll have to wait and see.

Hello, Traude!

Good to see your name here. Does the thought of John Hurt as a father-type bother you? I think it might some people.

Another trivia fact I learned in reading about how this movie was made--Nicholas Cage actually played the mandolin himself. It seems he was taken to a nearby city for instructions shortly before they started filming, and the story is they were surprised that he became so proficient in such a short time. Incidentally, have you heard the background music when you click on the Unifersal Studios website, above? Beautiful!

Lorrie

I'm always skeptical of all of the instruments actors supposedly learn for their parts. Actors do amazing things for their parts sometimes, though. Putting on or losing large amounts of weight. Must be a strange life. Always reinventing yourself.


Charlie

That's an interesting way to put it, Charlie. Reinventing ourselves.

I must confess here and now that after reading a little of the book, I find it very difficult to picture Nicholas Cage as the mandolin-playing Italian Captain. I seem to think of Cage as a Las Vegas, lone-wolf type, strictly with it in the modern sense, and it's hard for me to envision him in a period piece like this one. But hey, I am no big authority on movie types, so we shall see.

In that cast of European and American actors, there is one that I know is genuinely of Greek ancestry. That is Irene Papas, and I have admired her in many great movies. Oh, those dark, soulful eyes!

Lorrie

Irene Pappas. Doesn’t she go back to Zorba The Greek?

The only think about Nicholas Cage is the quirky sense of humor displayed in some of his movies. That at least seemed just right for The Captain.

Charlie

Browsing here and wishing I could see the movie and join the discussion. Nicholas Cage was born Nicholas Coppola, nephew of Francis Ford Coppola. I can easily see him as the Italian captain. You probably know that he chose the name Cage because he liked the music of composer, John Cage.

Mal

Yes, "Zorba the Greek," and another one, (of many) that Irene Papas was in was some political thriller whose title escapes me, along with Yves Montand, sometime in the sixties, I believe.

Now that's a little nugget of information, Mal! I didn't know Cage was related to the famous director. Well, good for him that he apparently didn't try to sail in on his uncle's coattails. That certainly would make him believeable as an Italian, wouldn't it? Coppolla?

What about Christian Bale? He has a pretty significant role in the movie, does anybody know anything about him? All I know is that he had a leading part in "American Psycho."

Lorrie

In case you aren't aware of it, Francis Ford Coppola has a website called Zoetrope which encourages unpublished writers.
This has nothing to do with Nicholas Cage or the movie, but I do think it's interesting for anyone who would like to be
published bigtime.

Zoetrope

Thank you, Mal. I have also posted that link in the Authors Corner . It may also be of interest to some of the authors there.

Lorrie

Gee. Guess who Tom Cruz's (sic) new girlfriend is??
Charlie

Ha ha, Charlie. That's a joke. Couldn't be Penelope, could it?

Mal

Right-o. But it's no joke. Maybe Hollywood publicity, but no joke. Happened to see something on it on the tablod news shows after the real (?) news!

Charlie

As an avid reader I am interested in this discussion. Most of the time the movie is not the book as I remember it. However, sometimes there are pleasant suprises. It will be interesting to see what gets posted.

Lorrie,

I am really looking forward to this discussion and what people have to say this movie. I am also looking forward to seeing the movie as I am interested in what Hollywood does with it.

Joan

Hello, Ginny Anne, and Joan:

Yes, it will be fascinating to see how much the movie script stays with the plot in the book, won't it? I'll admit I am a little fearful that they may have skipped a lot in the movie---after all, it would be hard to get over 400 pages of script into a film that lasts less than two hours, wouldn't it? Ah well, we shall see, we shall see.

Tom Cruise and Penelope Cruz are a twosome, Charlie? Do tell.

Lorrie

Nicholas Cage, is such a versatile actor. I believe that he'll do an excellent job with this part, as he has in every movie of his that I've seen. He's a great comedy actor, ("Raising Arizona"), and also does a good job with straight drama. ("Leaving Las Vegas"). And - he has played an Italian, in another movie! Remember the brooding, but funny, one armed baker, in "Moonstruck"? I think I've seen all, or most, of his movies, and he has never diaappointed me.

Lorrie - Christian Bale, played the young boy in, "Empire of the Sun", who was separated from his parents and left to fend for himself in a Japanese prison camp, during WWII. Directed by Steven Spielberg. It's one of those films that I'll watch over and over again. He was a very young teen when he starred in that movie, and believe me, he did an incredible job! If you havn't seen it, it's definitely worth renting.

Yes, I did see that movie, Mal, and I never connected the two Christians. It was a great film, especially how it showed the young boy's admiration of the Japanes pilots, if I recall. Well, at least we can say he has had great acting experience. What a far cry from that grisly book, American Psycho!

Lorrie

Lorrie:

Re: Greek Actresses...are you thinking of Melina Mercouri in Never on Sunday

Yes, Ed, this movie reminded me of that wonderful movie Never on Sunday but the one I have been trying to remember was a political thriller with Irene Papas. I think it was titled "Z" or something like that. Gosh, I hate it when I can't think of a name of a movie like this! And I can't find it in the research. Anybody know?

Lorrie

Yes. The movie was Z by Costa-Gavras. One of his many political procedural movies (and the first that brought him to prominence in 1969) won the Best Foreign Language film at the 1970 Academy Awards.


Charlie

Oh, Charlie, thank you, thank you. I knew I had seen that movie before, and I remember vaguely that there was a sort of controversy over the message it was sending. I do believe Irene Papas played the part of the widow, if I'm not mistaken. Thanks, Charlie, I hate it when I have something like that nagging at me.

Lorrie

But to get back to our wonderful "Captain Corelli's Mandolin." Are you all ready to go see the movie? Has anyone reading these posts had any luck in winning any tickets at a drawing?

Oh me, Oh My! Today is the day that the movie will be released in many theatres all over the country, and it is also the day that so many critiques and reviews of the movie come out.

Ouch! So far many of the movie reviews are terribly critical of the movie for not sticking closer to the book's plot, which happens so very often in the transition of a book into a movie. However, all the reviewers have been unanimous in one thought----The scenery of this lovely Greek island is breathtaking! I will be going to see the movie Saturday, and can tell you more then.

Lorrie

******NEWS FLASH******

Nicholas Cage's new love......Lisa Marie Presley

from hehe reliable sources, no really, it's true

betty

You went grocery shopping today, betty??

Don't have to go grocery shopping, Charlie. Netscape has links to all kinds of tidbits like that on its home page. That's how I found out about Cruise and Cruz.

Mal

Hi, Shirley n!! Well, we are gtateful to Joan for getting you in this group, and thank you very much for your review of the movie. I am going to see it Saturday, but in the meantime, we want to hear from all of you who have seen the movie, even those of you who spend a lot of time in line at the checkout in supermarkets. hahaha

Lorrie

Shirley n: You mentioned that you had not read the book. Perhaps you can join us when we discuss that book on September 1. Either way, it's nice to see your name here. Many people are saying that they thought Nicholas Cage's Italian accent seemed phoney, did you think so?

Lorrie

BETTY: Let us know what you find out from the next issue!! hahaha

First of all I am new to this website, but very excited about the movie and book discussion groups. I just moved back to Texas after living in Thailand for 16 years.

Concerning the movie - WOW!!! I can't wait to start reading the book. After searching for some discussion guides on some other websites I see many of the deeper themes in the book are missing from the movie. That fact, however, doesn't lessen the movie experience. The setting of the Greek island is absolutely magnificent. We get a "taste" of a different culture with some insight to the roles of male/female. In addition, we experience more of the atrocities committed in wartime conditions.

The theme that caught my attention the most, however, was the difference in young and adult love as experienced by Pelagia so beautifully portrayed by Penelope Cruz. By the way, who could ever resist those eyes. Her father, gives her a definition of love that should make us all think about our relationships. It should make all of us "seniors" more aware and appreciative of our love that has gone beyond young romance.

The movie did have a few downsides. There were moments that seemed a little slow and there was some confusion about distinguishing the Italian soldiers from the German ones and then from Greek freedom fighters.

I think that after reading the book, the movie will seem a bit shallow. But at the moment, I would highly recommend seeing Captain Corelli's Mandolin to anyone. It is a movie that we should hear quite a bit about.

beth 2001:

Wow! What a wonderful insight you have added to how you felt about the movie rendition of this wonderful book! It's true that many of the critics are lamenting the fact that the movie didn't really do justice to the book, but they are all agreed on one thing---if, for no other reason, one should see the movie for the scenery alone! I have always wanted to sail off to some Greek island!

How interesting that you have lived in Thailand for so many years. I imagine one could chat with you for hours on that subject alone! Stay with us, beth, we will be discussing the book, In depth on September 1. Meanwhile, I can hardly wait until tonight when I see the movie.

Lorrie

My source....CNN news at Noon. Isn't it CNN's owner, Time Warner, who produced the movie?

Edit...Nope, movie done by Universal Studios (Vivendi Universal Co.)

Betty (I Spy): Right on the job, Kiddo!

Well, I saw the movie last night, and unlike a lot of the reviewers and some nay-sayers, I thought it was wonderful!

I think ?it's quite simply one of the most intelligent, effective wartime romances ever put on screen,with perhaps the exception of "Casablanca," carefully building Pelagia and Corelli's relationship with warmth, comedy, tragedy and honest emotion. Cruz and Cage are excellent in roles quite unlike anything they've done before, but Hurt, Bale and Morrissey (as a conflicted German captain) are the standouts, with colourful, more involving performances that continually surprise us.

The gentle love between Pelagia and her father, as one of our posters has remarked earlier, is something to admire, and the photogrophy of this scenic story site is fabulous! They have managed to capture the beauty of this island of Cephalonia, much to my delight, and the musical score is haunting, captured with all the magic of mandolin playing, appropriately enough.

I did have a little trouble with the affected accents of all the actors, particularly Cage and Christian Bale, but all in all, it was a wonderful evening for me, and I rarely go to theatres!

Lorrie

Well, I for one, agree with Shirley and Beth.  Welcome aboard to you both!  The scenery of Cephallonia is breath taking.  The water is astonishly clear and enticing.  On a scale of 0 to 5,  I will give it a 3 and a half.  As Shirley says, our paper graded it with a two star and I had trouble urging my friends to see it with me.  Any movie that can make me visibly cry in one scene, laugh aloud in another and become physically ill while witnessing  how man hurts others,  deserves a thumbs up.  The accents were heavy making it difficult to understand a bit of the dialogue.  One character, who is quite strong in the book is barely noticed during the movie.  It will be interesting as we read the book to make note of this.  The priest played an insignificant part  in the movie.  Mandras was cast just as I had pictured him.  It is well worth seeing, especially for the $4.50 price that I paid.

$4.50? Hey, Andy, I shelled out five bucks and consider it well worth it. It was a wonderful movie, and when it comes out for rental, I'm going to see it again.

I haven't even finished the book yet, but I can see where a lot of the characters were left out of the movie, or glossed over, sort of. However, it's been a long time since I cried at a movie, and this one was definitely weepable!

Did anyone else have trouble understanding the dialogue?

Lorrie

In the interest of being fair-handed here, I am posting a link to a scathing review of this movie by a contributor to Salon magazine. This person seems to find fault more with the politics of the story than with anything else, in fact, nothing about this movie pleases him. I personally think he was too harsh in his judgement, but after hearing and reading all these ooh's and ahh's, I thought it was only fair that we publish a contrary opinion. Read it and weep:

SALON REVIEW

Lorrie

Okay, all you Moviegoers! Let's hear it from you about what you liked or did not like about the movie "Captain Corelli's Mandolin!"

Lorrie

I'm just back from seeing it. It's a good movie, despite the bad reviews. It's a must for anyone reading the book, if only to put a face on the characters - the enigmatic face of Carlo, for example - and to get a feel for the setting, mostly grand and picturesque, but also quaint and even barren.

Thanks, Lorrie, for the link to the Charles Taylor's review. When he describes the book as 'well-nigh unreadable', one has to wonder if he got the movie right. The book is a super read!

The movie does have some gosh-awful shortcomings; but, on the other hand, the author is quite pleased with it. 'I think the film has got the heart of the book, it's got the spirit of the book. Having seen it five times, I've almost forgotten what happened in the book anyway.' (Quoted from an interview I read somewhere. I wrote it down.) Isn't that persuasive enough to make one want to see the movie?

I've only seen it once...yet. And with the book still fresh in my memory, I would like to make a few random comments. First...in saving Corelli's life, the brave Carlo did not turn his back to the enemy. He caught the bullets in his chest. Turning his back was out of character.

Mandras, the real hero of the book (the movie version of him impressed Taylor) did not carry the wounded Captain Corelli to Pelagia's house. Having him do so is a serious distortion of his character.

It is tiresome to hear the old lecturing the young about love - just adding to Pelagia's confusion - from a father who could not even see the true, Greek worth of Mandras...not Pelagia's 'social and intellectual' equal, in his opinion. Was Corelli? Mercy! he was willing to sacrifice his daughter for the sake of medical supplies.

The movie has a very unsatisfactory ending. I believe a NYT's review described it as laughable. Now the ending in the book...that's something...very realistic and plausible. All those years of longing and remembering. Strange, perhaps, but I had to think of Rudyard Kipling's Mandalay.

"By the old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' eastward to the sea,

There's a Burma girl a-settin', an' I know she thinks o' me;

For the wind is in the palm-trees, an' the temple bells they say:

Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandaly!"

Wasn't that the way so many of these war-time romances ended?

Jonathan

Hello,

Lorrie, unfortunately I haven't had time yet to see the movie but intend to go this Saturday. By and large the reviews I saw were not favorable - the latest in TIME magazine. But I like to make up my own mind; I want to see just how much of the dense, difficult, diffuse novel actually made it into the movie.

Interesting to see that Nicolas Cage is the nephew of Francis Ford Coppola; I thought I once read somewhere that Cage, who writes his first name without the 'h', is of Greek descent. Since I don't go to the movies often, I remember Cage only from his role in MOONSTRUCK with Cher.

Yes Lorrie, the thought of John Hurt playing Pelagia's father bothers me too, but I have to revisit this issue after I've seen the film.

In haste.

Jonathan:

What a great, meaty post! Lots of opinion and facts there. You hit the nail on the head when you said "enigmatic" about the character Carlo!

I also think Mr. Taylor's review was a little harsh---all those millions of people over in Europe can't all be wrong! They adored both the book and the movie, and another refreshing thing about the movie: instead of lamenting how the filmmakers "ruined" his story, the author instead declares that"I think the film has got the heart of the book---the spirit of the book."

Reading about that passage from Kipling's poem, I found myself wanting to chant, Oh, Din, Din, Gunga Din,
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din
etc. etc. etc.

Remember that splendid movie?

Lorrie

Here's a link to an interview with Nicolas Cage, done sometime after the completion of the movie:

Nicolas Cage Interview

Note how unassuming he is about teaching himself to play the mandolin.

Lorrie

CharlieW--

Placido Domingo actually played the piano in a performance of Tales of Hoffman at the Met. Impressed my pianist hubby no end.

Lorrie, thank you for the link to the interview. He is half Italian, he said, I wonder what the other half is.

Looking forward to seeing the movie tomorrow.

Traude, I hope you enjoy the movie. Tell me what you think of that great Greek actress, Irene Papas, who plays the mother of Mandras. She has a very small part, but i can remember some older movies where she was very dynamic!

With all the publicity for this movie, I'm sure the island is overrun by tourists now, and it does seem a shame. The one thing the film cannot be faulted for is its ability to capture the atmosphere of the setting. The Cephalonian heat practically radiates from the screen, and every shot tantalises the senses with images of long days and languorous nights spent on the shores of the Ionian Sea. If you close your eyes you can almost taste the ouzo and smell the salty breeze, and I imagine that any local residents who have grown weary of the influx of tourists will be wishing that the crew had taken their equipment elsewhere.

This scenic beauty is the kind to watch when we are sitting at home, wrapped in warm robes, a fire crackling, and the winds howling outside in their winter frenzy.

Lorrie

Well I've just come from the movie and I've read the book and I truthfully thought both would never end.

There's quite a bit of difference in the book and the movie in many ways, most especially the plot lines?

I agree with Jonathan on the turning of Carlo's back, and I think the movie would have benefitted from using some of the plot lines of the book.

---

If you haven't seen the movie but have read the book skip my post from here on in?

---

The movie's ending made no sense, Mandras is a hero in the film, and his mother does not cast him out, the father does not die in the film's earthquake, Mandras did not learn to read, that entire parallel thread was lost, the Resistance and the Italians did not work together in the book or did they? The book left me cross eyed half the time but to me it was better than the movie.

The best thing about the movie was that Psipsina was mercifully absent?

As far as the accents went, it would truly have helped if the characters agreed on how to pronounce Pelagia? Even the father occasionally pronounced the g as a y and then as a g, did you notice? Correlli pronounced it all over the place, began the piece as a Greek translator, when in the book he does not learn Greek till the very end. Mandras kept hold of the hard g most of the time, I only heard him slip once, all the characters were all over the place in the opening scenes of the movie (I was dying to know how to say her name that's why I listened so hard)....the whole movie I decided early on, was different? It had the same characters and setting, but bore very little resemblance, if any, to the book?

Do you remember how they pronounced Cephallonia? I've been trying to remember. Something with an F?

I read the footnotes in the back of the book about the massacres and the bestiality of the Resistance but even so the Germans in the film really were bad, and that second large truck arriving after the atrocities with the big Mercedes Benz star on it made me nervous about getting in my own German made car, I think it went a bit far.

I know the history of everything concerned I just posted to, as well, I'm saying that there were more than one set of bad guys in the book and should have been in the film, as well.

The priest was completely ignored, I don't remember the dancing or the town concerts in the book, I think the movie which was beautifully filmed, was one of the few I have ever spent staring longingly at my watch throughout.

Correlli's famous tassells on the mandolin were missing, there was no record in the book, but rather a walkman and the return of Correlli and the part Velasarios played by placing the rose on the grave site were changed/ omitted.

Carlo's love was not explained as well. Carlo was passed over.

And finally, I know everybody will shriek over this one, I don't find scowling frowning women attractive and am tired of hearing how gorgeous Penelope Cruz is? The Pelagia in the book is a harridan. The doctor is not a real doctor and neither is she?

If I had thumbs to do up or down that one's Two MAJOR Thumbs down.

Now let me tell you how I really liked it? hahahahahaha

ginny

Ginny - I'm sorry to hear that the movie was such a disappointment; but your opinions about it are so stimulating and provocative, that for that reason alone everyone should see it. If ever a post was designed to provoke discussion, your review of the movie takes the cake. It's marvellous. And the book offers even more scope for the expression of strong opinions, don't you think? Of course I care a great deal what you think, and what the others think. And others, if I'm reading their posts correctly, are hoping for forthright opinions on this book.

I'm just sitting here shaking my head over some of your statements. What do you think? Was the doctor a better historian than he was a doctor? Could other historians be as well served by a goat? I really missed Psipsina, the priest, and the other ninety percent of the book, so I was grateful to catch sight of the goat several times.

Jonathan

Thank you, Jonathan, I appreciate that, and you are so right, anybody who has ever taken a course combining literature and film learns early on to compare and contrast and we here in the Books do just that, keeping in mind that we're all entitled to our own opinions.

Haven't you ever left a movie and died to discuss some of the themes and how the movie director or editor brought them out or let them die on the cutting room floor?

The movie was not a disappointment, I had read my last negative review, something about even the goats looked bored, before I went in the doors, and having read the book, I was surprised, it was at least an hour before I stole the first glance at my watch. So in that regard it was not disappointing, tho the singing in the shower I must say was better than where singing occurred in the book.

Was the doctor a better historian than doctor? In which medium? I was, and I guess I need to keep this for the book discussion, extremely irritated by the book's conceit of using him as writer/ historian thruout, his tome became sort of a Greek (ouch) chorus. I guess I need to save that for the book discussion.

Hahahah, Jonathan, the other 90 percent of the book? I'm with you, there. Although I'm not sure I missed it.

What did you think was the film's strongest point, and was Carlo turning his back (or Mandras's saving Correlli) the weakest one for you or was there another?

ginny

GINNY:

Okay, okay, now I know you didn't like the movie, and you didn't like the book, but do you have to be so exuberant about it? I can see this is going to be fun---

Yes, you are totally entitled to your opinion, but just remember that, as I posted somewhere else, I'm a lot bigger than you are! Jonathan, I need your assistance here, and I can assure you that there is no yardarm from which you can be hung.Hahaha

Lorrie

Whatever happened to that darn goat, anyway? I don't remember.

Lorrie

Hope it is OK for anyone to jump in here. I have been reading all your posts with a lot of interest because I had not seen the movie or read the book. I saw the movie a few hours ago, and bought the book just before that. After listening to everyone, I am not sure if I like not having read the book before seeing the flick,but perhaps the movie would have seemed worse if I had. I have heard all the criticism and I agree with a lot of it. It was a Hollywood film! The accents were bad, and the plot often seemed thin, not developed enough. Although I highly regard Nicolas Cage as an actor, somehow he just didn't fit the role for me. I have been trying to think what actor would better portray an Italian hunk. I agree about Penelope Cruz, she is beautiful to look at, but as a passionate young Greek girl, I thought her passion was lacking in the role. My favorite character was her father, although I wasn't convinced about him either. I was constantly aware that they were actors, and usually that doesn't happen with me. I must read the book right away now to see what my opinion of it will be. Having said all this, I am glad I saw the movie, I could have just watched the scenery for the whole two hours. I think it must have been very true to the actual small island village.

This afternoon I fled from my paper-strewn desk and went to see the movie.

It's been YEARS since I've been to the theater in the mall. Tickets for seniors are now $6, I found. Moreover I did not know that umpteen loud commercials would precede the movie and, my patience wearing thin, I gritted my teeth through more than half a dozen equally noisy previews; none enticing. Next time (if there is one) I will arrive at the multiplex 20 minutes AFTER the indicated opening time, and, if it happens to be a movie based on a book, I will definitely take a note pad along.

While waiting for the film to begin already it occurred to me that many more people will see the movie than read the book, and that hence the movie deserves to be viewed and judged on its own, for itself --- to the extent that is possible for someone who has been reading the book.

So I tried to take in the movie as presented and to divine from it the subject matter and plot twists. Of course I watched the main actors very carefully. And I found that Nicolas Cage has expressive, actually beautiful hands, and wondered whether he plays the piano by any chance. His narrow-set eyes are haunting, and teal blue matching a civilian shirt he wore. Of course he could have been wearing contact lenses for all I know. Italians gesticulate a lot and I thought he might do more of that but didn't. The chemistry between Cage and Cruz, or the lack thereof, wasn't a consideration for me. Cruz did a lot of running hither and thither, a wonder she didn't break an ankle on these rocky paths, and there was a lot of gazing into eyes and such, but what else was there to do in view of the hopelessness of the lovers'situation ?

The best feature of the movie is the beautiful scenery, I think. It was filmed on Cephalonia (I wonder why de Bernieres has two lls throughout the book- in Greek it is Kephallenia). The pronunciation and stress of the names interested me : MandrAs, LemonI, PelagIa (with a hard g as in Ghandi), and no, I do not speak Greek. The accents made it hard for me to understand some of the dialogue. After a while the sparse audience no longer chuckled and then it became impossible NOT to think of the book.

As was to be expected, the movie focused on the love story between Pelagia and Corelli and eliminated some key characters from the book that gave the latter its special flavor. The beginning scenes were telescopically compressed and recognizable for readers of the book, but perhaps not quite comprehensible to viewers who had not read the book : for example the procession, the prostrate mad people, one of whom regained his sanity.

As the movie progresses, it becomes painfully apparent that the script is a significant departure from the core, shall we say, of the story. While the battle scenes are dramatic enough and the atrocities vivid (though they are much worse in the book ----- the funeral pyre), the movie appears to aim for a more palatable (if not a happy) ending. There is one inconsistency that struck me : when the earthquake begins, Pelagia, in white, is taking the BP of a woman patient in some kind of clinic; after the earthquake she is seen running to embrace Lemoni, but in a different smock. But where would she have found it ?

BTW, I have been trying to remember whether cigarette lighters were extant at the time. I smoked then and I remember using the special Italian matches made of wax that came in very small boxesx and were called "cerini".

Ginny has already pointed out how many characters were omitted and how much was changed. Mandras was anything but a hero in the book, he never did come face to face with Corelli, Carlo's role was minimized and quite beyond recognition. Communism and civil war in Greece were not mentioned in the movie; what Stamatis and Kokolios (with Stamatis' wife sitting betweeen them) were all about could not be gleaned from the film, the return of the Captain was incongruous (I expected him to disappear, like a ghost) and the ending - after the horrible earthquake - too light-weight.

Lorrie, Irene Pappas is still magnificent, in fact she is majestic !

A good thing the boys of La Scala congregated on the beach rather than in the location given in the book. (I am not a prude but I find some of the author's scatological descriptions 'over the top'; "de trop", as the French say.) And no, there are no dances described in the book, nor is there a pretty young girl who liked Lieutenant Weber.

Ginny, one utterance by Corelli in the book made it to the screen; just lost the page but will be back.

Basta, basta = enough already !

Lorrie, the goat was clubbed to death because it was tame.

The passage I mentioned is in chapter 26 on page 176, where Corelli says,

"Signorina, in times like this, in a war, all of us have to make the most of what little innocent pleasure there is."

Another visual impression from the movie : amid the heavy shooting and destruction in the town by armed vehicles, wouldn't it have been logical for Corelli to wear a helmet ?

Traude, Traude, that is a wonderful comment on your thoughts about the movie! Isn't it fun to watch for those litle discrepancies that so many of us notice in movies? Like the smock thing in one scene, and the fact that Corelli isn't wearing a helmet through all that fighting. It makes us wonder if the people who make these movies think we're all an unobservant bunch, doesn't it?

My biggest problem was with the accent. To me it just seemed all that much harder to understand what they were saying, but of course part of my problem is that I have gotten so used to seeing closed captioned movies of late.

I agree with the irritating aspects of attending movies in a theatre. I rarely go anymore (this one was an exception) precisely for the reasons you mentioned. (loud trailers, unending ads, etc). I much prefer to rent the video, where I can fast forward when I wish, or even pause to answer the phone, go to the refrigerator, and not miss any of the story.

Like so many of you people who have read the book first, I am afraid the movie was a great disappointment. It seems as tough too many interesting characters were left out.

Lorrie

Lorrie, forgive me but I got the goat's fate mixed up with that of the goat : the goat was stolen ; it was Psipsina, the stone marten, that was clubbed to death.

My apology.

babsNH - not only is it OK to jump in, but you did it in great style by sharing your feelings about the film. Enjoy the read. I'm convinced you'll come away from that saying: 'I'm glad I read the book'. I, for one, would really appreciate your help in convincing some people around here that the book...well, let's save it for the discussion.

In the meantime I'm going out to see the movie for the second time. LdeB said that during production, in the course of successive versions, his approval rating went from something like seventy percent to ninety-five percent. After the fifth viewing of the finished film, he was convinced that the movie had captured the heart and soul of the book, while admitting that he had forgotten what was in the book. Which book you might ask. I've heard that he rewrote parts of the Greek edition...to satisfy those among the Greeks who were unhappy with the original. Not surprising. It's difficult not to become embroiled in politics when writing about civil wars. By the way, are you reading the unexpurgated copy.

Traude - Captain Corelli's helmet, you will remember, was a favorite place of Psipsina's, in which to curl up. Perhaps it was reluctance to disturb her sleep, which sent the Captain off to do battle sans helmet. Then again, it may have been a case of 'once bitten, twice shy'.

Jonathan

Jonathan, we posted one minute apart just now.

I came back on line because I wanted to promptly correct my earlier error when I reported what happened to the goat and the poor tame stone marten in reverse order. (Psipsina is not in the movie.)

One more thing : in the book, Pelagia slept on the kitchen floor because Corelli had been given her bed; the movie shows instead a sort of daybed and the house looks quite a bit 'fancier' than the text of the book leads one to believe. Also, there is no trapdoor in the kichen floor in the movie, nor is there need for one because of the changed plot. It's a bit sad though that crucial parts were so radically altered. Still, a film is subject to time constraints and not every movie based on a book is a felicitous adaptation of it.

I feel confident that we will have fine discussion.

babsH:

Welcome, welcome! Of course you can jump in anytime at all. I am wondering also if it is such a good idea to see the movie first, then read the book. We're doing it backwards here as a sort of experiment, but I have to confess to you all that I read the book first (it was such a long wait for this movie to come out) and I find it much easier to compare the two.

When i saw the movie, I had read all the reviews on it, both negative and glowing, so I was prepared for the worst, so to speak, but I truly enjoyed the movie, even if "Grinch" around here didn't. God, I would love to be able to go to one of those fabulous Greek islands!

Lorrie

Traude, thank you for the correct information on what finally happened to the poor goat.

Thank you all for your welcome.

Jonathan, I just went to look up unexpurgated, and I'm sorry I didn't know there was more than one version. I just purchased the new paperback, and it seems that it is the Pantheon edition, not the original published in Great Britain in 1994. Perhaps you can explain to me the difference? I would like to know if I am reading an expurgated version. I might want to read another! Please tell me before I get too far into it. Thanks.

babsNH...I must apologize. I wasn't altogether serious when I suggested that there might be an expurgated edition of Corelli's Mandolin. But I can't help feeling that many readers will wonder about the uninhibited use of words and imagery which, until quite recently at least, would have been considered obscene or vulgar. Sometimes they're used to very good effect. Sometimes they seem pointless.

By his own admission (I believe I saw it in the link above to an interview with the author) LdeB wants to engage his readers, to get a reaction. And he certainly does that in an amazing variety of ways...even to the point, where basil has lost its appeal for me...haha.

Mostly I see the humor of it, as for example, in the town council's picturesque refusal to surrender to the Italians. But I was the only one in the theater who laughed. The others must have been too sensitively attuned to the scorn and contempt conveyed by the reply to the demand.

I'm looking forward to hearing the opinions of others to this aspect of the authors style. If, indeed, it's significant enough to comment on.

Jonathan

JONATHAN, or ANYONE:

Somewhere in my extensive reading about th making of this movie I read that there had been another ending to this story written. It seems, if I remember correctly, that deBerneres was upset about all the controversy over the way he described the partisans and the communists, and he rewrote another ending just to assuage his critics. I find this hard to believe, frankly.

Has anyone else heard of a second ending of this book?

Lorrie

No apology necessary, Jonathan. Just didn't want to think I was missing something, that would be bad for me! LOL I also found the scene with the town council funny, there were only about 4 other people in the theater, and I noticed my daughter didn't find it funny either. I think perhaps they should have added the bit about the herbs to the movie, don't you? I am not too far into the book yet, and guess I should wait for my comments about it until Saturday.

Lorrie, are you serious about de Bernieres, or any author, being upset because her/his book turns out to be controversial? That's the best possible thing that can happen to a book. Heaven forbid, a book that's not talked about.

Yes, I've heard about a revised Greek edition. Who wouldn't want the book rewritten? Whom didn't he offend? Certainly the Greek partisans and communists. How about the Greek lovers?

I believe it was Traude who said there was soul-searching in Germany, over the book. Actually, I thought there would be even more in Italy. Unless they're proud of the fact that the mandolin turned out to be more powerful than Mussolini, in shaping the national character.

And Ginny thinks Pelagia is a harridan! That's shocking. That's the unkindest cut of all.

JRRJ

no, no, no, babsNH. It would have robbed the good doctor of his dignity.

I was invited to join this discussion to give my thoughts on the movie which I saw a few days ago. I have never read the book but I liked the movie, though thought it moved slowly in parts. I found the council's refusal to surrender a humurous one but never understood why they would surrender to a German and not the Italians.

The Italians acted like there was no war, and they were just singing and having fun - maybe that really happened, I don't know. Having grown up in England during the war, and knowing of the occupation in Europe I quite honestly hadn't thought about Greece nor did I realize that they were also occupied. I also had no idea that the Germans shot so many Italians - their allies....I found that difficult and sickening.

I thought the island was beautiful and have heard that it has indeed become over run with tourists now.

I liked Nicholas Cage and Penelope Cruz...she looked very beautiful and could convey thoughts without words. (and yes, she is dating Tom Cruise and Nicholas Cage is dating Lisa Marie Presley).

Overall I would say it was not a great movie - no academy award performances - but it was interesting to me and a funny and yet sad love story.

JONATHAN:

Ginny thinks Pelagia is a harridan?? Really? Oh, well, she probably thinks Mother Therese needs an attitude adjustment!

ADRIENNE:

Thanks you so much for accepting my invitation to join us. When you commented that during the war not too much emphasis was put on the little country of Greece----I know we in America didn't pay all that much attention to what was going on there. At least until after the war when the Communists put up such a battle.

I still have difficulty with Nicolas Cage in that role, but then I had formed an entirely different picture when I read the book. I did like the love story, didn't you? I thought it was incredibly romantic!.

On September 1 we will be discussing the book "Corelli's Mandolin" at length, in our Book Club Online, and it would be wonderful to have you join us there, also. The book is available in paperback, or also at your local library, why don't you try? Thank you for responding so promptly to the invitation!

By the way, did I read that you had met Gregory Peck in person? You must tell us about that!

Lorrie

babsNH:

I'm so glad you have the book, isn't it a good read? I'm a bit disappointed that there weren't better reviews of the movie, but I still don't regret going. It's a good idea to wait until Saturday, yes, when we start talking about the book, etc. That discussion starts on September 1, with my esteemed colleague from South Carolina, Ginny, and I taking turns as leaders. In the meantime we will finish all this gabbing about the movie version and wind it down sometime after that. By that time we should all have a pretty good tan or sunburn from basking on the shores of that beautiful island!

Lorrie

Lorrie,

some of the negative movie reviews may have been written by people who compared it unfavorably to the book. Who knows ? Admittedly, it is difficult, if not impossible, for those who have read the book NOT to find at least some fault with the movie.

A question had been raised by Jonathan, I believe, as to whether Pelagia's father was more of a historian (or better historian) than a doctor (sorry, this may not be the exact phrasing). Now, I am not sure movie audiences fully realized Iannis's dual roles as doctor and historian. This valid question will be brought up again in the book discussion, I hope.

The movie represents only one brief period in the life of the protagonists, but the book "tells it all". And the script writers have taken enormous liberties by radically changing the character of Mandras. His elevation to hero makes sense (barely) only in the context of the movie; his meek acquiescence to Pelagia's returning his ring, and even saving Corelli, his opponent, is totally out of character.

Penelope Cruz, the Pelagia of the movie, is a lovely woman with expressive eyes and a generous mouth. And, contrary to what Ginny said, she didn't scowl all that much, actually, the courtship was a bit too sudden (compared to the book). I find no fault with her acting. Could any actress have done any more with this circumscribed role ?

The Pelagia of the book was a strong woman. How else could she have survived ? Of course she aged. Prematurely. But to describe her as a 'harridan' is harsh and a bit unkind.

Traude:

There was one thing about Pelagia that I'm not sure was brought out in the movie----her very deep love of the island where she lived. As her father had pointed out to Corelli, the roots were entwined very deeply around her heart, and her father did not think she could bear living anywhere else. Yes, I feel she was a very strong woman--just look at what she had to go through before she reached maturity!

Lorrie

I'm sorry you all disagree with my assessment of Pelagia in the book as a harridan? Sorry you think it harsh and unkind? It is, of course, my own opinion, and of course again, that's what we're here to discuss, perhaps without judgmental reflection.

In the world in which I live we don't throw things at each other, slap each other or generally express disappointment in a physical way, yes, "harridan," but I'm going to withdraw that one in favor of a better one I saw looking it up: Harpy.

And that fits, too, with the Greek theme?

hahahahahaa

Remember, we here are about respectful acceptance of the opinions of others, harpy it is for me, saint for others, de gustibus.

Lorrie, you hoot, I happen to think the world of Mother Teresa and have her book, has everybody read it? Her big point in the book was, when people said oh I'll come join you in India, she replied, no, look to your own neighborhood, there are people there who need love just as much as those in India, a great person.

And the Correlli will be a great discussion!

Achesis

I don't know about Mother Therese's attitude problem, a la Ginny, haha; but isn't life, and books, all about perception. Pelagia may indeed have been something like a harridan. The beautiful cover on my book predisposes me to judge her kindly. Judgeing be damned. I fell in love immediately. Sadly, I would no longer look like a Greek god, down on the beach, like Mandras. Nor do I play the mandolin, like Corelli; so I do have to wonder if my love would be requited...or worse. Suddenly Ginny's suggestion seems like an invitation to be realistic. And sure enough, there's Nicos, on page twenty-four, feeling threatened with being emasculated by Pelagia's sharp teeth, having already had his intelligence and honesty put into question by this teen-age vixen.

With caution, naturally, comes a lesser likelihood to overlook clear warnings. And just like that Pelagia, 'outside in the square...living up to her reputation as a scold', becomes something more than just the feisty and high-spirited girl I thought her to be.

But I can't believe that. We do have Dr Iannis' word for it, that his daughter Pelagia is a 'nice amenable girl'. And best of all, there's Pelagia herself with the disarming, lovely words, 'Come indide and we can have a cuddle'. Now there is a daughter to worry about! With all my worrying paternal instincts the book may prove to be too much for me.

I did not want to begin discussing the book prematurely, but just to allay my fears that Ginny might be thinking of withdrawing from the discussion.

JRRJ

I don't know what to say. I was busily typing, when you posted. I knew darn well why Lorrie put you in such good company; and I do remember that you concluded an earlier post by saying that you enjoyed the movie.

Jonathan

Jonathan, every post you make is of such value we could discuss it forever, never fear on any worry, just try to get RID of me, that's more like.

I liked your contrast in how her father saw her, how you see her, how she was "seen" in the square (thanks to the author's pen) and how I see her, this Corelli's Mandolin book discussion will be a really good opportunity to learn from each other and in the end, our consciousnesses will be raised, and I, for one, will have learned something.

Just that bit about her father has me thinking, now. If HE saw her that way, and the author chose to allow us to see that description, but then the other descriptions: I think I need to reread this thing again and thank YOU for your always wonderful thoughtful posts.

Cinematography in the movie is unparalleled, I'm sure it will win the Oscar, wonderful photography

ginny

Last week I had occasion to speak with the discussion leader of our afternoon live book group and told her excitedly about our discussions here of C.M., book and movie. She answered that she had seen "poor" reviews and "no interest" in seeing the movie.

She called earlier today to tell me friends of hers with whom she had lunch today DID see the movie and LOVED it. Well now !

Ginny, I had no intention to be disrespectful of your opinion. I was not and I am not quarelling with that opinion; I merely said that the term "harridan" seemed harsh and a bit unkind to me, as applied to the Pelagia of the book. And the term certainly does not apply to the Pelagia in the movie, in my humble opinion.

My big Random House dictionary defines 'harridan' as a 'scolding, vicious old woman; hag', and gives the following definitions for 'harpy' : '1. in classical mythology, a ravenous filthy monster having a woman's head and a bird's body. 2. rapacious grasping person. 3. scolding, nagging, bad-tempered woman; shrew'.

I am sorry to have offended you by not agreeing with your description of Pelagia. Would you say then that in your eyes I have failed to show respectful acceptance of your opinion SOLELY by saying that the term 'harridan' appears to me a bit harsh and unkind ? That hardly bodes well for my further presence in your midst.

Ginny, go right ahead and say whatever you like about this movie! We all promise not to chase you down the aisles throwing popcorn at you right and left!

There is one thing that perplexes me. This book was an instant best-seller in England, and the movie was a terrific success, much more so than here, in fact I believe somewhere they even made a musical of the story. Can you explain this? Is it because we only like to read about wars in which we have participated in the plot?

Lorrie

Traude, you'll have to allow me to share the blame for the fallout which has come with our being critical of Ginny's use of 'harridan', and now 'harpy', in describing Pelagia. I'm sure Ginny was trying to challenge us, and it does seem right that Pelagia should be the first to hold our attention. It's her story more than anyone elses. She's there in the beginning, and she's there at the end.

Lorrie asks an interesting question about the less-than-instant- best-seller reception of the book in America. Isn't that because it's essentially a European novel? For that reason I was really excited to find you eager to discuss it. Your views and your understanding of the issues and themes will add immeasurably to our appreciation of the book. How about the Proustian echoes, the Rabelasian exuberance, and the Dickensian sentiment and humor?

Jonathan

Ah, Jonathan, your enthusiasm is highly contagious! Let's hope you will bring it with you when we move over to the "book" discussion.

We invite all you readers who have read "Corelli's Mandolin" or not, to join in a discussion of the book, beginning tomorrow. (Sept 1) Here is the link to that discussion:

CORELLI'S MANDOLIN

Lorrie

I have yet to see the movie, or read the book, and tho I see only about one movie a year, I will see this one, if only to hear my new musical heart-throb, Russell Watson..Strange reason I guess, but he is really fabulous..

PUTNEY:

Well, why not? It's as good a reason as any. Speaking of the music of this movie, I must admit I certainly didn't know much about mandolins before reading the book and seeing the movie. They are fascinating instruments, and with a beautiful sound.

I really hope you enjoy the movie!

Lorrie

Jonathan, thank you for your #81.

The truth is that I really did not intend to be critical or judgmental ! I merely voiced my own impressions of both the movie and the book, well before we even began the book discussion.

I have always placed great stock in words and devoted much of my life to linguistics and to interpreting into and from foreign languages. As a result, I tend to take words and meanings literally and am very conscious of nuances. And I also listen carefully to what is UNSAID. On occasion I have been unduly fussy, and I have been accused (by my husband) of trying to split hair, which may well be a professional hazard <g>.

To all of that I plead guilty. And if my words here have been considered hurtful and offensive, I apologize.

Lorrie, can we continue to post here when we have more comments on the movie, or comparisons with the book, or should we do that in the book discussion ? Thank you

Jonathan, thank you for yur #81.

The truth is that I really did not intend to be critical or judgmental ! I merely voiced my own impressions of both the movie and the book, well before we even began the book discussion.

I have always placed great stock in words and devoted much of my life to linguistics and to interpreting into and from foreign languages. As a result, I tend to take words and meanings literally and am very conscious of nuances. And I also listen carefully to what is UNSAID. On occasion I have been unduly fussy, and I have been accused (by my husband) of trying to split hair, which may well be a professional hazard <g>.

To all of that I plead guilty. And if my words here have been considered hurtful and offensive, I apologize.

Lorrie, can we continue to post here when we have more comments on the movie, or comparisons with the book, or should we do that in the book discussion ? Thank you

Jonathan, my answer to your post # 81 was incomplete, I just noticed. Please forgive me. It's late. I'll get back to it tomorrow. Thank you.

TRAUDE:

Of course you may post here anything pertaining to the movie "Captain Corelli's Mandolin!" We will be coninuing to feature comments on the movie only on this page for another week or so, and then we will be re-opening the page for general discussion. At least until we have decided on which Book-Into-Movie we will be doing next. Any suggestions in that department, anyone?

In the meantime, those of you who have read the book come and join us in our related discussion:

CORELLI'S MANDOLIN

Lorrie

Despite the negative reviews and comments I have seen about Captain, I loved it. In the case of "strange accents" complained of, the problem went right by me; and since I was sitting with a WW II veteran when I saw the picture, and continually asked, "Are those the Italians?" Those are Germans, right?" "Are they the Greek partisans or the other Greeks?" I got all the right answers right away and found the action very clear and unconfusing. What I loved about the movie (twice) was the beautiful island and surrounding water and light, the portrayal of the island people and the ancient culture, the wisdom and bravery and just plain attractiveness of the story's characters, and the fact that the story was solidly based in history.................Elizabeth

Elizabeth:

You couldn't have said it more eloquently! I, too, was overwhelmed with the beauty of the scenery, and I wonder sometimes if it was really such a chore for all those actors and people who make a movie to work among such breathtaking sights! In the coming long Minnesota winter nights, I shall think about that with longing.

Lorrie

It was easier when the good guys all wore white hats, wasn't it?

Yes Lorrie, the white hats made it easier. My advice to everyone who wants to enjoy the film is to take a World War II veteran as I did........Elizabeth

Good advice, Elizabeth. It didn't work very well for me with the movie "Saving Private Ryan," though. I went to see that movie with my brother, and we left the theatre with him visibly shaken. He had been at Omaha Beach, you see, and the true-to-life way they depicted the allies landing and being slaughtered like that was too much for him. However, he still insists he loved that movie!

Lorrie

HELLO, EVERYBODY:

Does anyone have a favorite book that was made into a movie? Were there any such movies you saw that didn't do justice to the book? Please come in here and tell us all about them.

Also, we would like to hear from you about what book made into a movie you would like to see mentioned here, perhaps in full discussion? So far we have had suggestions on the book "The Shipping News" by Ann Proulx. Anyone else have a suggestion?

Lorrie

HOORAY! It looks as though our next selection of a book that was made into a movie will be "The Shipping News" by Ann Proulx. We seem to have spontaneously gathered a quorum over in the Library, and so we have decided to do a discussion of the book first, On October 15, then discuss the movie, which is being released later. Right now we will be working on the header for this, so please keep checking in here for more information! This is great! Is there anyone else lurking around here who would like to join in for a discussion of this wonderful book? Please let us know, we welcome everybody, absolutely!

Lorrie

All right, everyone! "The Shipping News" is being discussed on another page, and we will be talking about the movie version of that when it comes out in December, but for now we are back to discussing any recent movies that you have seen that were related to a book, or a play, or even a TV show.

For instance, how many of you people saw "Hannibal?" I was disappointed in the book, and didn't go to the movie for that reason, but I suppose I will rent the tape and then see what was different. Somebody told me the movie ending was different. Was it?

Lorrie

Hello, Hello!! Is anyone out there? I'm beginning to feel like the Maytag Man! Hasn't anyone been to the movies lately, or is everybody watching robots and dinosaurs these days?

Lorrie

ALAS! Because the number of posters who come in here is so drastically reduced, it has been decided that we will Archive this discussion. Thank you to all you people who posted here in the past!

Lorrie

Lorrie, "movies" and "books" seem to overlap "books into movies."

Elizabeth:

How true! However, it's not a complete loss. We are still going to have a book/movie discussion every month in the folder listed in the Books Into Movies main discussions. Right now we are doing "The Shipping News" whose movie will be released in Decemmber.

There are so many good books out there that have been made into movies, does anyone have any favorites? Is there some particular book you'd like to talk about, compare it with the film version, or whatever? Please post in the Suggestion box--we won't miss it!

Lorrie