205 (5) Northwest Native American Cultures: Totems and Cedar  
GER-HM  

Using the academic principles of art and symbology, course will examine totems, canoes and paddles, clothing, houses, masks, baskets and hats in an attempt to understand the physical, intellectual, aesthetic, spiritual and pragmatic interconnectedness and wholeness of communities and individuals living with cedar at the center of their lives. 

I know of three books regarding Opus Dei:

The Tapia and Walsh books are critical of Opus Dei while the Messori book is positive about and officially approved by Opus Dei. IMO the Messori book is too blindly reverent and is deliberately vague on policies and issues; but at least it is in contrast to the two more critical works. I always like to see differing opinions, to research and review facts, and make up my own mind.

The Way was written by Escriva and is a type of rulebook for the lay members of Opus Dei. This link also leads to some other writings of Escriva.

The above super website has pro/con arguments re Opus Dei although it is ultimately critical of the organization. It also has numerous links including one to the official organization's homepage which is obviously totally pro-Opus Dei.

I'm ready to tentatively put forward that the Priory of Sion is not an ancient organiztion but one that came into existence in the early 20th Century. I can only be tentative about this. So far the hundreds of sites I've looked out, when you follow the threads, turn out to be rather excitable whatever their argument? Excitable if pro-ancient PoS and excitable if anti-ancient PoS.

Dr. Steven Mizrach is an Adjunct Lecturer at FIU (Florida International University). He believes in UFOs and the paranormal. I'm repeating sites already posted from him but he originally accepted the ancient idea of the PoS and in the following site -- also listed by ANNE in her first link above, and I think previously by HORSELOVER -- Mizrach now says 'I'm not sure it exists. I don't know.'

I'm repeating ANNE's link again with Richardson, to be followed by a new article that disputes some of his and Mizrach's facts.

_________________________

Here's some info (among the many available) from PAUL SMITH, another excitable gentlemen as they all seem to be, with the first link being a warning history of PoS Mailing List:

_________________________

I apologize to ANNE and HORSELOVER for repeating any links they posted. I think it was just the two but I wanted to have them all together for my own reading purposes. I think SMITH may be closest to the history of the PoS as being conceived around WWII. Some of the people putting forward have been influenced by a book called "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" which I've briefly looked at and found to be speculative with no serious attempt at research. Not a reliable resource IMO.

__________________________

I doubt then that the PoS is ancient which immediately knocks out the concept of historic figures being members of PoS. But the idea of an ancient organization like PoS does make for good fiction and The Da Vinci Code is a fictional work. So hard to separate fact from fiction here because there is fact in the book alongside the fiction. Remember JOAN and HORSELOVER, how The Dante Club had a preface which purported to be fact? but the novel's author Matthew Pearl, bless him, fessed up that the preface was fictional by a fictional persona.

ANNE, did you read all the thousands on PoS? You're a dedicated researcher. Have you reached a tentative idea about the PoS -- ancient or modern? hoax?

I didn't do as much reading. I read all the links on about 60 pages of Google and then read more using different search criteria including edu sites. I'll keep searching, and hope to find a solid edu.

Please let us know if you find anything further?

- "Perception is Truth in the eyes of the perceiver." (The perceiver= Dan Brown?)
"Declared facts may also be fiction also."

There's a Dan Brown website with his research listed for this book. The site opens slowly for me. On the left side of the webpage, click on "Resources" and then click "Dan Brown's Bibliography" top of the next page.

One should, of course, always question the reliability of any author's stated sources as well as questioning the reliability/authenticity of any web link. I believe I said this earlier.

The book quotes the Opus Dei contract agreed to by its members: "This spiritual plan of life comprises: an intense sacramental life, hinging on daily Mass and communion, weekly confession, the habitual practice of mental prayer (up to one hour per day); daily reading of the New Testament and of a spiritual book; daily recital of the Rosary; nightly examination of conscience; a monthly day of recollection and several days of retreat yearly; frequent spiritual communions, acts of atonement, ejaculatory prayers, etc. To this is added the daily exercises of the spirit of sacrifice and penance, not excluding corporal mortification...." (148)

"The term not excluding corporal mortification refers to the cilice, which has a high profile in the legend that the Work is the last haven of medieval obscurantists .... The famous 'instrument of torture' is a band of rough wool worn around the waist or the leg, with knots or dull points of wire that press on the skin without penetrating it." (149)

Books critical of the organization Opus Dei also mention mortification practices.

I researched into the author of the site and also posted the same link you had as well as some other web pages he authored. He's a Fortean, believer in UFOs and the paranormal, is an adjunct lecturer at the FIU, etc. In the above link he mentions that he was perhaps too gullible about originally accepting "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and its speculations. I posted that link along with others re the author in post 74.

"Holy Blood, Holy Grail" is not well researched and it accepts secondary sources at face value; it's wildly speculative. I cannot accept it as factual. This doesn't mean that its speculations aren't worthy material for a work of fiction such as Dan Brown's.

-- Perdue "The Da Vinci Legacy" 1983

-- Perdue "The Linz Testament" 1985

-- Brown "Angels and Demons" 2000

-- Perdue "Daughter of God" 2000

-- Brown "The Da Vinci Code" 2002 or 2003

More ....

Warning re the above link -- it slams The Da Vinci Code so you may not want to read the news article. It does mention the charge of plagiarism by Lewis Perdue and that QUOTE "Brown employed a striking defence; that the points of overlap [between Perdue's work and Brown's] were cliches which were part of the genre of the thriller and therefore belonged to no one writer." END QUOTE

I was unable to call up the entire Newsweek article, although I had done so before, but the above link has a quote from Newsweek.

The Lewis Perdue Page lists the similarities between the contested works and also has other items.

Who knows how this charge of plagiarism will end?

Yes, I'm more than ready to move on to the novel itself!

I also haven't found a site on 'Sauniere' that can be verified as legitimate.

It's a fun game for some to create games and brave new worlds in cyberspace. So not only do we have to question fact or fiction within DVC the novel, but we also have to question statements and stories on links that claim to be fact. I assume it's fiction if the site looks fishy and, with tongue in cheek, I enjoy the inventiveness of the website author. <smile>

"President Mitterand explicitly demanded the pyramid be constructed of exactly 666 panes of glass - a bizarre request that had always been a hot topic among conspiracy buffs who claimed 666 was the number of Satan..." page 21

Now I apologize ahead of time if I'm repeating old news here about the Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception is an important idea in the Catholic Church and it pertains to Mary's own birth. This is what I was taught in Catholic School, and I know they kept the idea simple for us children but taught it we were:

This concept -- which I consider to say that if you toe the line of Church and Man you'll be honored -- is patriarchial crock IMO, but there it is; the taming and subjugation of the feminine divine.

The reverence of Mary has been subverted however by some cultures (and people within the CC) into the original feminine divine and they acknowledge more power in Mary than the CC would like.

_________________________

In belated answer to the question of is DB's nobel "historical fiction" I don't quite know what historical fiction means? I suspect it means that readers can trust and accept as fact, what's purported to be history and fact, and that the author doesn't mislead readers by claiming historical fact when it isn't so. Therefore, I'd say it isn't historical fiction, but fiction. The writing isn't strong enough for me to want to ferret out truth from invention. There are instances of deliberate manipulation of readers which annoys me at times. Does anyone else feel this?

This last is a prayer that shows the status of Mary within the Church. There is the Feast of Conception in December 8-9th, celebrating the IC of Mary, and many different celebrations of the new woman Mary. This concept of Mary is not found in any gnostic or aprocryphal writings but began I think about a millennium after the historical life.

St John Damascene says of Mary's parents that "during the generation, they were filed and purified by the Holy Ghost, and freed from sexual concupisence. Therefore, even the human element of her {Mary's] origin ... was pure and holy." There are similar stories, with variants, throughout the origination of the idea of the IC -- my Catholic School story being a popular one.

Yet Thomas Aquinas argued against the Immaculate Conception, saying "Certainly [Mary] was conceived with original sin, as is natural ... if she would not have been born with original sin, she wouldn't have needed to be redeemed by Christ, and, this being so, Christ would not be the universal Redeemer of men which would abolish the dignity of Christ." (Aquinas Compendio de Teologia, Chap CCXXXII)

Some of this resistance to holy virginity and the IC remains within the Church members but the Catholic prayers to Mary are to the Virgin Mary, one who can speak to Christ on the supplicant's behalf. Here is perhaps the most frequently used prayer:

Perhaps the final, offical approval of the IC was in 1854 in The Declaration of Immaculate Conception of Mary:

The last link from New Advent, the Catholic Encyclopedia, explains the practice and history of churching according to the Roman Catholic Church. I believe it has pagan roots and there was suspicion of witchcraft which required churching. I'll check further into this.

"The early Christian insights into women's equality in the grace of baptism that ('if anyone is in Christ s/he is a new creation' [2 Cor 5:17]) soon became obscured in our tradition. Theology, therefore, needs to look at a tradition that identified the fullness of the image of God with male persons and evil with women. In such tradition, woman had to be redeemed either by marriage and procreation or by virginity, by which she was virginally freed from her body in transcending her own sexuality. This tradition, based on a misunderstood biology and deeply ingrained in our psyche, is still supported by theology."

Sister Kathleen has much more to say, including comments on Eve. It's a long essay and you may not wish to read it in its entirety. For example, I pushed the 'scroll down' button 14 times to get to the above quote. With that caveat, here's the essay:

_________________________

Another link about women, Christianity, witches, churching:

Note the praise by Alice Walker, among others, about this book. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "Chapter Eight: The Witch Hunt" which covers the period of 1450 - 1750 CE.

Some quotes from Chapter Eight --

"Woman is a temple built upon a sewer."

"If [women] become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth that is why they are there."

"Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman."

"You [women] are the devil's gateway."

_________________________

ON CHURCHING, Ellerbe writes: "Orthodox Christians believed the act of giving birth defiled both mother and child. In order to be readmitted to the Church, the mother should be purified through the custom of 'churching,' which consisted of a quarantine period of forty days if her baby was a boy and eighty days if her baby was a girl, during which both she and her baby were considered heathen.... Some thought that a woman who died during this period should be refused a Christian burial."

_________________________

These statements by Sister Kathleen Coyle and Helen Ellerbe aren't the official Catholic Church's version of the practice of churching.

Since I've realized that certain 'facts' in the DVC are actually fiction, I'm content now to consider all of the book as fiction which makes for a much more pleasant read. It isn't worth the stress to me to try to separate fact from fiction, I haven't the interest in do that, but I applaud anyone who does so.

To me DVC is in the fictional thriller category and I read and ultimately evaluate it by that standard only.

"It’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived "by the power of the Holy Spirit," in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means". Immaculate Conception of Mary

JOAN, first I love your humor. Lately I just smile when I see your posts in Books Community Center, here, and elsewhere. What a pleasure!

I didn't mean to be confusing regarding the Immaculate Conception. Mary was conceived in the usual way but the parents were so pious, so filled with the holy spirit at the time of conception (hahahaha, this is really hard for me to say with a straight face, but this is the Church's teachings) -- anyway, so pious were the parents that Mary was an Immaculate Conception, undefiled by lust and original sin. She was the Virgin Mary even though she had sexual intercourse for reasons in the links.

Yes, the links contradict each other. Catholics understand that one can contradict the Church's teachings -- as with Sister Kathleen -- within very lenient limits. Most Catholics take certain teachings and practices with a grain of salt and feel that the "churching" was not originally as benign as the Church would like us to believe. Note that the Church downplays "churching" and I think it would like to see it disappear out of memory.

I didn't want to rock the boat too much about fact vs fiction and am happy to see that I'm not the only one who's firmly placed this book in the realm of thriller fiction.

O Draconian devil!
O lame saint!

Leonardo DaVinci
The Mona Lisa

" On page 181 the police agent Collet is talking to Fache and says, "Any leads yet on what Sauniere was trying to tell Agent Neveu and Robert Langdon?" What have I missed? When did the police start thinking Sauniere was trying to tell them something, rather than that Langdon committed the murder?"

DIANNE's link from "Crisis" magazine was interesting and mirrors much of what I feel.

MEG, I think we're not responding strongly to the story because there isn't much there? DB has written a sensational thriller in order to gain attention (meaning sales). That's where his talent lies. His research isn't to be taken seriously, and the quality of his writing is poor but his skill -- and it is a skill -- is in his sensationalism, vital for selling thrillers.

"When he (Aringarosa) attends that meeting(in Chapter 34) and learns "Shocking News" that will happen in six months I thought back to the beginning of the story when we learned that at some time in the future the Priory of Sion will reveal the secret of the Chalice and thought "this is what propels the Bishop to work with an anonymous person known only as Teacher and to bring bonds that would point to the Vatican if the Teacher and The Bishop were caught doing what ever they were going to do."

#4. What are we supposed to believe about the Knights Templar and the Sangreal (Holy Grail)? Is there a clear link between the Knights and the Priory of Sion? Do you consider both of these groups "Christian"?

Apparently Leonardo da Vinci (LDV) (1452-1519) died in France and was buried there. Another bit of information I found was that the Pope forbade dissections of corpses and LDV had to steal them from morgues. He studied a total of 9 bodies this way. Another bit of info is that he was basically not a Christian -- or was lukewarm at best -- but professed his belief and received the last sacraments on his deathbed (according to biographer Vasari and others). This last minute declaration of belief happens quite often with "fallen away" Catholics.

Lots of fine links about Leonardo da Vinci. Here are some to consider:

These first two links are probably the most useful general information about LDV's life. The following links are also interesting.

In my web search I read about how LDV created huge mirrors and the speculation is that he was attempting to see the stars. I'm consumed with an interest to read his notebooks (not the mirror-reversed writing) and also more about LDV's life.

Funny, but Brown's book isn't making me question my beliefs since I don't take DB seriously -- Dante did make me question myself 100 times over -- yet I have developed this interest in Da Vinci, not from how he's presented but in the mention of his name and what I've found out so far.

"Leonardo was more a scholar than a philosopher, nevertheless his wholly naturalistic science implies a certain philosophy, which if it is neither the kind of paganism nor the materialism in which the Renaissance so often resulted cannot be called truly Christian. Either through prudence or through scorn of abstract ideas Leonardo seems to have avoided declaring himself on this subject. Nevertheless it is easy to see that the idea of miracles is repugnant to his imagination. He admits or would logically admit only an immanent Providence, a God who refrains from intervention in the universe like to God of Lucretius or the Stoics. It is also certain, and he does not conceal it, that he did not like the monks. However, as an artist, he accommodated himself perfectly to the Christian tradition. His art, though not at all mystic, is in its forms certainly less pagan than that of Raphael or even Michelangelo. He died a very Christian death."

"The portrait full of mystery and secrets is painted on a 77x53 cm large poplar-wood. It is the most famous work of Leonardo da Vinci.

Originally the painting was larger than today, because two columns, one on the left the other one on the right side of Mona Lisa, have been cut. That is the reason why it is not easy to recognize that Mona Lisa is sitting on a terrace.

It is also mentionable that many details are not visible today, because they are partially damaged and some parts of Mona Lisa are painted over.

However the characteristic of the famous painting is still existing. The characteristic consists in the detailed background which disappears in the misty atmosphere (this is called "sfumato" technique), the perfect portrayed Mona Lisa and of course her hypnotically smile."

Thanks for noting the Catholic Encyclopedia entry. That particular part fascinated me in that a Catholic publication (truly Catholic) would so fully and eloquently explain LDV's religious convictions and philosophical orientation.

I wonder too about cutting down a masterpiece, Horselover. Maybe it wasn't seen as a masterpiece at the time? Curious....

I agree that we can't go through this particular book with a fine-toothed comb looking for fact/fiction discrepancies. Having seen how much in DVC is proclaimed to be fact, yet finding so many discrepancies and limited research, I long ago stopped accepting that anything in the book could be factual, nor do I care. I only delve deeper into a subject in this discussion if I'm interested in the general subject matter; and I do enjoy the research and learning process.

Dan Brown's writing doesn't make me question, nor does it challenge or enrich me, and I don't fault him for that. His book is a thriller after all. I've questioned, been challenged and enriched by other authors such as Dante, a completely different sort of writer; master of arguments, complex ideas, beautiful words, and self-reflection.

Since I don't depend on DVC for facts, I can read it and judge it as a a single work within the thriller fiction genre.

(I had to return DVC to the library a bit ago and am posting about the book from memory and a few notes that I made.)

the Mystic Cross and its meaning

"The rose represents the perfected, fully realised human being. It is the result of the process of moving from acknowledgement of the supremacy of Christ within, through the opening of the spiritual centres, to the point where the real self is revealed like a rose.">

"The painting showed a blue-robed Virgin Mary sitting with her arm around the infant child, presumeably Baby Jesus. Opposite Mary sat Uriel, also with an infant, presumably baby John the Baptist. Oddly, though, rather than the usual Jesus blessing John scenario, it was baby John who was blessing Jesus...and Jesus was submitting to his authority. More troubling still, Mary was holding one hand high above the head of the infant John and making a decidedly threatening gesture - her fingers looking like eagle's talons, gripping an invisible head.

Finally, the most obvious and frightening image: Just below Mary's curled fingers, Uriel was making a cutting gesture with his hand - As if slicing the neck of the invisible head gripped by Mary's claw-like hand.

...DaVinci envually mollified ...the watered-down version of Madonna of the Rocks - now in London's Tate under the name, Virgin of the Rocks...although Langdon sitll preferred the Louvre's more intriguing original." p. 138-139

"Does the Priory's worship of Mary Magdalene as Goddess, Grail, Rose, Divine Mother seem to overlook the importance of Jesus? Why this omission in their worship, and what does their emphasis suggest?"

8. Why is Opus Dei looking for the Grail now? Does Opus Dei know the Grail is not a chalice? What are the "Q" documents? Why the sudden fear that the Priory will reveal the Grail secrets after all this time?

" Once you get past the wonder of looking at a page written in Leonardo's hand, there's not much you can do. Few of us read Renaissance Italian, and fewer still can decipher the curious right-to-left mirror script in which the codex is written."> ~
Codex Leicester - Da Vinci notebook pages

I tend to bypass reviews, MEG, until after I've read a book. Then I may look for intelligent reviews to see if there was something in a book I missed. I think it's easy to spot the reviews that merely repeat the publisher's promotional blurb; and that's most reviews unfortunately.

Well, shall we do this? - look back at the closing chapters, before we continue to evaluate the merits of the book as a piece of fiction? Even before we pretend that it is all true and whether the secret of the Grail should be exposed once it is discovered, IF it is discovered...(horselover - A good point..."Everything that happens is based on the Church's fear that this truth will be revealed... that's premise on which Brown is operating.")

It is clear now that Teabing agrees with you, BaBi, Faith...the secret must be revealed to the the world once discovered. Does Sophie agree with this? Robert Langdon is an historian...where does he stand on this issue? Teabing asks him this question at gunpoint!

Was it clear to you how Robert knew the password, "apple" before he tossed the black cryptex into the air when Teabing was forcing him to decide whose side he was on...did that part work for you? If so, will you explain to me how he suddenly knew the password, set the letters on the cryptex, removed the message all in those seconds BEFORE he tossed it into the air???

Let's finish the story itself before we evaluate the book as a whole? You have all been great keeping quiet about the identity of the TEacher. I'm really interested to hear how and when you reacted to that!

"You seek the orb that ought be on his tomb,
It speaks of Rosy flesh and seeded womb."

"Marie told the story of Sophie's late parents. Incredibley both had been from Merovingian families - direct descendants of Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ....Sophie's parents and ancestors, for protection, had changed their family names of Plantard and Saint-Clair. Their children represented the most direct surviving royal bloodline and therefore were carefully guarded by the Priory. When Sophie's parents were killed in a car accident whose cause cound not be dertermined, the Priory feared the identity fo the royal blood line had been discovered."

"Raymond Brown has likened the quest to identify the author of the Fourth Gospel to a good detective story (1966: lxxxvii). A good detective sifts through evidence which is relevant and discards that which is not. When the evidence begins to point in a certain direction, he or she pursues leads and explores all of the various explanations and alibis. When one theory emerges as plausible and more credible than any other, the detective draws a conclusion that usually involves the naming of a suspect or suspects. The evidence supporting authorship of the Fourth Gospel by Mary Magdalene is much stronger than that which established John of Zebedee as its author for nearly two thousand years. After careful consideration of the evidence cited herein, I respectfully submit that the "prime suspect" in any quest to identify the author of the Fourth Gospel should be Mary Magdalene."

"the Pope and Cardinals are spiritual men and would not condone assassination regardless of the stakes." (Dan Brown has Langdon tell Sophie.)

Louvre Interior

What effect, if any this book has had on you.

Has it changed your ideas about faith, religion, or history in any way?

Did our discussion help you to understand or enjoy the book any more than if you had read it yourself?

Did the discussion help me understand or enjoy the book more than if I'd read it alone? I didn't enjoy the book but enjoyed the discussion which spurred me on to finish the book. The enthusiasm of the other posters, the wonderful links and graphics you all provided, and the combined knowledge that was shared -- that kept me going with the book. It's through the discussion that I learned about Leonard DV and his paintings (and his famous stash of mirrors) or Mary Magdalene etc and that's a real gift.

What effect, if any, has this book had on me? I'd never finished a thriller before so now I know what they're like.

Here's one possible answer to JOAN's 'why is this book a bestseller' which is something I've also questioned.

Marvelle