Welcome to the discussion Depths of Glory. I don’t know about you but I have always loved paintings by one of the Impressionists. This book is not only about the work of the famous painter Camille Pissarro, but it also opens a window on his personal life.

”Irving Stone took his place as the world-acknowledged master of the biographical novel” we read in the Glossary at the back of the book:

The French Landscape

The artist was an isolated character, ‘outré’, exaggerated and outside the mainstream of French life whether that of the Parisian ‘bourgeoisie’ the conventional middle class, or the working class, and completely apart from peasant understanding. His contact with the public at ‘salons’ exhibits was minimal and rare. Artists generally lived in their own ‘arrondissement’ district, gathering at the local café where they drank a ‘café au lait’…

The life of Camille Pissarro was similar to that of other people of the time in certain aspects of it. He had the same expectations, the same concerns, the same ambitions, the same tragedies, except that his compelling artistic drive took him on a different path. Nothing could prevent him from painting from dawn to dusk throughout his long life, whether it was starving, taking his loved ones along with him to the brink of despair, disease, or grieving at the death of a family member. He painted everywhere and everything he saw in all kinds of weather conditions outdoors or in all kinds of desperate situation indoors. When he died in his seventies, he had painted around a thousand paintings.

His work has remained at the forefront of artistic excellence and we can still see his masterpieces hung in the most prestigious museums of the world.

I guarantee that you will enjoy reading Depths of Glory by Irving Stone and hope to see your participation in the discussion in December.

Éloïse

Everyone is welcome to join Eloise and me in this discussion as we learn about Camille Pissarro and his influence on Impressionism.

To indicate that you plan to join us in this discussion just post a message here in this proposed discussion.

We are really looking forward to reading this book with other SeniorNetters. There are many links to information about Pissarro on the Web. We will be able to see many of his paintings on the Web. WBeing able to see these paintings as we discuss the life of the artist who painted them without leaving our own homes is a wonderful opportunity.

Looking forward to seeing you here,

Joan Grimes

I would love to learn about the life of Camille Pissaro. When the book was first mentioned in the Book Nook, I bought a cheap copy of the book. You can't go wrong with Irving Stone. He wrote wonderful biographical novels. I can't wait to see all the wonderful paintings both of you will show us. I bet you will give us information and paintings showing Paris too. Plus, all the artists who were involved with Pissaro during that time. I am really very excited!

Welcome Hats!

I am so happy to see you here! This is going to be such a wonderful discussion with participants like you.

Click on the links in the heading here and you can begin looking at Camille Pissarro paintings. They are truly wonderful.

We do plan talk about all the Impressionist painters and fo course about Paris scenes.

Joan Grimes

I will certainly try to join this discussion. I'll be away during December but should be able to look in regularly enough.

Thanks for putting up the links - the paintings look superb. Will take my time to enjoy them during this coming month.

Now to find the book!

Count me in!It looks fascinating.

I'm in too - can you tell me when the book was published? I'd like to check our library before buying a copy.

Hats, Gumtree, Scrawler welcome. You don't know how happy I am to have you join us, we are going to enjoy this discussion so much, the Paris scene, the French landscape, the museums where the paintings are shown. I have read the book already and couldn't get enough of it, I was sorry it was over.

We are in for a treat to soothe the eyes after what we see in the news. December is a time for rejoicing and we plan on doing just that.

If you have already been in France and would like to talk about your trip there, what you have seen and loved or not loved, or if you would like to go, please join us, everybody is welcome.

Éloïse

P.S. Joan P. Youpie, you too. It was published in 1985 according to my paperback copy.

Welcome Gumtree, Scrawler ,and Joan P. Looks like we have a quorum. So the discussion is a go. I am so happy that we are going to be able to do this book discussion.

Joan Grimes

I ordered a used copy of the book online as soon as I saw that it would be discussed. I, of course, haven't received it yet. I don't know what my schedule will be but hope to join you. It has been many years since I read a book by Irving Stone.

I can picture a pissarro landscape in my mind He was one of the foremost impressionists and I've always enjoyed Irving Stones novelizations of real people. This should be great. I'll have to find the book. . . maybe amazon?

Welcome Marjorie and Windum, we are going to be spoilt with your artistic knowledge with such a wonderful group of participants.

While searching for something about Baron Haussmann who renovated Paris in mid-19th century by tearing down unsanitary and downgraded districts to rebuild a modern city, I came upon The Bourgeoisiefication of Paris "which culminated in Baron Haussmann's renovation of the city". It shows what was going on at the time of Camille Pissarro.

Baron Haussmann started his renovation of the city by building the famous Paris Sewage system, visited by hordes of tourists even today (well I didn't go and I know you will understand) and laid down the famous Boulevards in the formation of a star, all converging to monuments such as The Arc of Triumph. This link also has sublinks showing Impressionists paintings. His 'beautification' certainly became determinent in making Paris what it is today.

Éloïse

Wonderful link Eloise. I have added it to the list in the heading. It is one that I am sure that we will want to look at many times during this discussion.

Joan Grimes

Place de L'Etoile et L'Arc De Triomphe at Dusk

I never saw Paris at night and when I was there I couldn't make myself go out at night alone. Now I wish I had seen this.

Another beautiful link, Eloise! I have seen it like that many times. The Arch of Triumph is a lovely site at any time but at night it is especially lovely. The most wonderful time to see it is just at dusk when the lights go on. It is nice to sit in a sidewalk cafe on the Champs Elysees and wait for the lights to go on. I have done it several times. Everytime I have been to Paris with a person who has never done this I have made sure that I took the person to see the lights go on at the Arch de Triomphe at dusk. It is an unforgetable experience.

Joan Grimes

Yes Joan, sitting down at a terrace restaurant on the Champs Élisées is nice to say the least. When I was there 5 years ago I told myself I would just walk down the boulevard from the Arch of Triumph to the Louvres. I was not on a tour, so I could take my time to do it slowly and rest every once in a while.

It was in May, so it was not that very warm to sit outside but it was lunch time and I found an Italian terrace enclosed in glass panels and sat down, I was scared to look at the prices, but they were not bad at all, so I ordered 'moules frites' Mussels and fries with a glass of wine and just enjoyed listening to the noises around me, people talking etc. A woman came in who looked like a tourist and sat down besides me and she ordered her lunch. Ahah I told myself, a French Canadian and we started to talk. It's funny how you can easily talk to strangers on the street when you are visiting a foreign country.

Did you know that before 9/11 there were 2 million Americans who visited Paris each year? After the number came down to one million, but it is starting to go up again. Paris is Paris, but if you go for only one day and you don't have good weather, or good experience with the locals and it might spoil your memory of it. It needs to be taken in slowly to be able to enjoy it.

Éloïse

Camille Pissarro was born in 1830 and died in 1903 but he was 25 when this story begins with his coming to France where he will be spending the rest of his life painting. I don't know why there are so many painters in France.

Eloise,

I have taken that walk from the Arch de triomphe to the Louvre many times. I really enjoy doing that. It is a very long walk though. There are many beautiful gardens to see on the wayas well as interesting and beautiful buildings.

I don't know why there are so many painters in France. However I do think that French people appreciate art more than most people in other places.

Joan Grimes

I've heard it said that there's something about the light in France - that draws painters. Have you heard that?

at least that's how I've understood it's appeal to artist and then eventually with the louve and the beauty f the city itself an attraction became a kind of artistic mecca.

MY daughter returned from a visit to France and told me that I would really appreciate the south of france. she said nothing about paris, but the south of france is where many of the landscape painters went to paint. She loved it. I probably would too. but not in this lifetime.

I read the book at least 15 years ago, guess i'll need to brushup.....teehee.....what a good group, this should be fun.....jean

Welcome Jean! It is wonderful that you are joining us here. So you have read the book. I wonder how I missed this one when it was published. Of course I was still working then and had many things going on in my life. It was published in 1985 and that was a year before I fell in France and fractured my hip. So I really did not look ofr things about artists and art at that time in my life.

Joan P, yes the light is wonderful in Northern France. Of course these partists went to Paris to study painting with people who were famous. It seems from what I have read that all of them preferred to live either in the country or the suburbs of Paris. Of course all of those places are cities too now and those suburbs are certainly part of Paris now.

Theron and I used to drive around the areas of Northern France in which Pissarro lived and painted. We would remark on the light. I will never forget the first time that I drove to Normandy myself, (long before I met Theron) and how I noticed the change in the light. The light in the area always impresses each time I go to France.

On my recent trip I spent a couple of days in Paris before our ship left for the cruise on the Seine. The cruise on the Seine took us right through the towns and villages where the impressionists lived and worked. We stopped at many of the places.

I really must go now as I am spending the day with my son. He will be picking me up at 7:30 AM and it is 5:43AM here in the central time zone right now. So I must eat my breakfast and get my shower. I will be back tonight. Eloise will be here soon I am sure. She is in the Eastern time zone. So she is an hour ahead of me.

Joan Grimes

I didn't see the difference in the light of France from elsewhere Joan, but then I am not a painter so I don't have that keen sense of color and form they have. I have some sense of it otherwise I wouldn't like to go there so often, but I don't actually see pink leaves on trees. When the Impressionists turned away from conventional genre, they wanted to be free of conventions and expected the salons to accept that, which they didn't.

Where I see a bit of difference in light is in the South of France Claire, it is so crisp and pure I think because the wind coming from the Mediterranean sea pushes the pollution north, away from the shore, I am not an expert it's just a guess. But painters too go for the climate, where it's ideal, the vegetation, the architecture, the fantastic view

The French don't easily give up their old systems and as far as language goes, for a new word to go into the dictionary, it has to go through "L'office de la Langue Française" and the word is only accepted by the committee after long deliberation. It was the same for painting, the official Salon didn't accept the new painting genre of Impressionists.

Jean, what did you think of the book when you read it?

Éloïse

Doing some research for this discussion, I think I will learn more than everybody in our group. I wish some of you would volunteer to say why you wanted to join this discussion, if you are an artist, which artist you like best and why or which genre of paintings you prefer. It might encourage others to want to read and discuss the book.

Éloïse

in it's day i would have been a romantic and may still be. I've been told I'm an abstract expressionist which now that I see this explanation of roantisism fits except that it allows me even more freedo in that I can use abstraction to express the inner romantic me.

I don't have enough definitions for what I know and this is probably what I hope to find here. How do non artists view these matters. Some are polite but negative and others simply curious and open minded. Ihope we have mmore of the latter.

I imagine the book has nice color plates??? does it????

the air here in southern CA two blocks fromt he beach like Laguna ten miles to the north is clear of smog most of the time..which as in the south of france attracted what was called here "pleine air" artists who worked outdoors on the spot. something like that in france too. I think of Cezanne and his mountain from so many different places a combination of abstraction in that he altered perspective but essentially representaional and cool. not really romantic. maybe an extension of the classic.. . . .called by my old teachers "post impressionist".

the early pissarro paintings don't use the expressionist technigues for painting light which defines them I looked. but the ones of the city painted from his window do I think. the images on line are very bad . . .mosttly yellow and black and don't give one an idea of what all those closely placed multicolor spots do when viewed from afar where they turn into a luminous grey. the impressionists paint LIGHT. or at least that was their intention. claire

Eloise,

You said," but I don't actually see pink leaves on trees. "

I don't see pink leaves on trees either. Neither did the Impressionists. They tried to paint light. The colors that they saw with changing light were reflections. The predominate color used by them was blue. Blue is reflected from the sky. I know I am not explaining this well. However the thing that we really look at is how The Impressionists did this. They did not mix their paints to make colors. They applied brushstrokes of different colors side by side. When this is done the eyes of the viewer will blend these colrs if you move back from a painting. If you stand very close to an Impressionist painting the individual brush strokes show and you do not get the impression that the painter is depicting. Also these painters would apply paint and while it was still wet they would apply another layer of paint of different color over the first one. This caused the blurring of the outlines and thus gives an impression rather a definite outline of something.

I don't think we need to get off onto painters in other parts of France at this time. Of course Cezanne was from Provence. However he came to Paris to study. He became close friends with Pissarro. These painters were from different places. Mary Cassatt was one of these painters and she was an American. She wanted to study in Paris. Pissarro was born in the West Indies. If you read some of the links that are given you will find this background material. The Impressionists came to Paris to study painting. They all wanted to be accepted by the Salon. This was necessary because that was the way to sell your paintings. They all needed to make a living at painting, even those who came from families who were financially well- off. Impressionism was revolutionary. It brought about change in methods of painting but it also changed the subject matter of paintings. It was revolt against idealised subject matters. These Impressionists wanted to paint things as they were. They wanted the people that they painted to look like real people, the scenes to look like real places. They began to paint working men and women and real scenes from nature.

The links are essential to understanding all this. I have some more that I will try to post some more links. I will post them as I get time to do it.

Since this is the preliminary discussion before we begin the book then lets try to get some background on this revolutionary movement. Remember that this movement was not confined to just painting. It spread to literature and music also.

what would be some examples. I thought of Debussy but he was more of a romantic. . . I grew up in a home where we all played piano. . . classical piano. my mom was a singer of lider. but I never understood music in a historical way. only that bach played a harpsichord because there were no pianos and preceded Mozart etc. etc.followed by beethovan who was deaf in his old age but kept producing. when did the impressionism begin in music and how long did it last. a link would be nice . . . claire

ps. I have been visiting the links in the heading. my computer must have a problem with color right now. everything is very yellow.

like this hot link thumb nail or larger.

I love this painting by cezanne but found it hard to see details even at the the show so took it into photoshop where I could alter the darkness and see it better. the composition reminds me of . . . would you believe . . .franz Kline . . . and me. especially when I reversed it for dark and light. I hope so. and lightening it lets us see the detail. lost a lot of that and color in optimizing the image. oh well. you get the concept. doing that with pissarro's work would produce something entirely different I think. more horizontals and verticals, fewer diagonals.

hi hats. here is the reversal

claire

Wow! it enlarges. It's beautiful.

How interesting Joan and the impressionist movement is starting to make sense to me. "They did not mix their paints to make colors. They applied brushstrokes of different colors side by side. When this is done the eyes of the viewer will blend these colors if you move back from a painting" and I never thought of looking at an Impressionist painting this close to see the colors applied to the canvas that way, or else I didn't know that it was a different technique in painting. The book describes it but not in so much detail. Thank you.

Claire I couldn't answer that question about music, sorry, but perhaps someone else can. About posting photos, I will ask the powers that be and will come back to you on this as this is not a photos discussion, we will see.

I just came back from a video conference on Venice, I still have those images of gondolas, palaces, history in mind. When I went in 1976 I didn't see everything I saw tonight, but it brought back wonderful memories. The narrator had a deep well modulated voice and his text was of the purest French, a delight.

Éloïse

Glad you had such a good time Eloise. Sounds like a lovely presentation.

Since I brought up the music I will post some links for answers to questions about it.

Impressionist Music.
Impressionism in Music

Joan Grimes

I followed up on them and it looks like that's pretty much what I like impressionist music and Debussy most of all. I collect from CLASSICAL MUSIC ARCHIVES and have everything they have also a lovely Ravel sonatina I loop and play it over and over. then the others too now and then. odd.Now I have a name for it.

moving on I like the Russians prokofioff shostikovich a chldrens choir doing folk mustic. . .even that old romantic stowkoski...can't' spell any of these but you get the idea. sibelious, grieg. and then back to mozart and bach. just discovered mendelsohn lately. . .fast fingers. so on with the impressionist age.

I've done some improvising myself and always with "dirty chords" on both piano and guitar.

I like disonence too and that's the moderns of the twentieth century probably not familiar but samuel barber for that lovely aria etc. etc. better quit. . . .claire

I was wondering why I didn't care for modern music and abstract paintings doesn't appeal to me either and couldn't come up with an answer. What we like in music and painting is a personal choice. One sister of mine does abstract portraits in collage which are quite striking. I think perhaps that when a painter has done a genre for many years, he/she wants to move on to something new, that is fine, but it might take generations before the vast majority of people can understand it.

We have been exposed to art in our house very early on by our art loving mother who played piano, she loved art books and literature and my love of Impressionists dates back to when I was a child. I like to recognize something when I look at a painting, it could be a landscape, a person, a bowl of fruit, something tangible, even if it is very loose or hazy and the color is important to me. I was in a museum one day and there was a large frame around a white canvas that looked like a wall and coming close to it I could see a faint gray horizontal line. That is what they called "art". It must have appealed to someone or else why was it hanging there?

How do you all feel about art in general? We have time to think about that before the discussion starts on Depths of Glory.

Éloïse

by the time I was thirty I was bored with representational art. I could draw and paint reasonably well landscapes, people fruit in a bowl. now what.

that'is exactly what happened. these were all THINGS. so I started to paint ABOUT things which was not only a challenge but gave me a mode of expression.

I agree abot that white line. . .pure bull. . . luv, Claire

I just want to say that anyone who wants more information than what is posted here can very easily find the information for themselves by putting going to Google and entering Impressionism. There are many places on the Internet explaining this movement and also many showing examples of paintings by the Impressionist painters. Of course we will be most interested in the painters because the book we are reading is a biography of Camille Pissaro.

if you find more information you wish to share then just post a link to it here in the discussion.

Joan Grimes

Just having seen La Traviatta by Guiseppe Verdi (1813 - 1901 on TV, I can't help but compare this opera with Impressionist paintings. It was filmed in Paris and some scenes were almost identical with Pissarro's paintings and other impressionists. A true romantic opera and the composer was living in Italy when Pissarro was painting in France.

Guiseppe Verdi

Éloïse

Eloise asked how i liked the book......it was a long time ago, keep that in mind, let me go into the vault and see if i can drege up my tho'ts.....hahaha.....I do recall liking it very much, but i've liked all of his books. He puts you right into the scene. As i recall he writes about Pisarro's relationship w/ others of the time and the difficulties they had getting people to accept their work as impressionists.

I am always in awe of people who persevere against great criticism, who feel they have something and just stay w/ it. Claire, have you had to fight that battle? Any of the rest of you? .....jean

As for recognision and sales. . . they aren't really the issue for me since I don't need them for income. just going on and on and on and trring different things and giving the gift I have for creativity a chance to operate makes a life for me. ir's been a month or so since I've done any art. but the head is always busy. that's part of it. thank you for asking.

Jean and Claire, I agree that to keep working towards a goal against all odds deserves a medal and especially artists who have to be constantly asking for money, that can be so humiliating but if they wanted to stay with their art, they had to do it. I am sure that artists today go through the same struggle and there are so many good ones too.

I like to compare 19th century artists, painters, musicians and writers who all shared a common creative goal that was brought about by the tremendous economic and cultural frenzy happening at the turn of 19th century, after the Napoleonic wars. Everything evolved at a fantastic rate, the industry was starting to boom, new discoveries were invented and the recent war between Prussia and France did not stop progress, it only pushed it harder.

It will be interesting to see the interaction between artists in Depths of Glory and we can easily recognize each painter's personality because we have read about each one before and have seen their beautiful paintings.

I invite everyone who is interested in the Impressionist Movement to join us in December, we already have a wonderful group and I am looking forward to a great discussion.

Éloïse

I was married to an artist so over time I learned to appreciate the way an artist works. He was a landscape artist although he could do portraits as well. There were times when I thought he was insane because of his various mood swings, but when the picture was complete I could see his passion within the frame work of his art. It is sad that the Vietnam War caused him to loose his passion for his craft - he was never the same after his return home and he never painted the same after he returned either. His paintings reflected the saddness and frustration that was in him as well the physical pain he was suffering at the time.

Scrawler, I an sorry about that, a soldier suffers far more than people back home can imagine, it's not surprising that sequels remain long after they come home, it shows perhaps not so much outwardly but inwardly it is bound to show up in what artists produce. I have not seen everything the Impressionists painted by far, but what I have seen is always so peaceful. Could you give us a link of your husband's paintings?

We still have three weeks before the start of the discussion and I wanted to share a link about the EIFFEL TOWER.

There is a virtual tour included and it is quite interesting.

I'm sorry my husband never posted his paintings on the Internet, he died about ten years ago. But he is remembered by family members through his oil paintings. His earlier paintings show the softness of his work, while his later paintings show an emotion and depth that can not be explained even though they were of the same subject matter.

Scrawler, it must have been wonderful having a husband who loved to paint.

I have begun enjoying the paintings in the heading. The Powerpoint display with the music is more than wonderful. I am not familiar with Pisarro's paintings. So far I love his domestic paintings.

1. Girl Sewing


2.Madame Pisarro sewing near a window

3. Washerwomen

I did think of Van Gogh. I see a lot of yellow in his paintings. I like the brightness of the paintings. Then, I noticed some paintings that seemed predominantly blue.

I have my book. I can not wait to start it. This is very exciting.

Eloise, this link, Place de L'Etoile et L'Arc De Triomphe at Dusk, given by you is gorgeous. Thank you.

Joan and Eloise it is very enjoyable reading about your trips to Paris. Your descriptions of Paris are very vivid for a person, like me, who has never been there.

Claire, thank you for showing that reversal technique. I am reading every single post and learning so much. Claire, I see a lot of yellow too. That's why I thought of Van Gogh. Was Van Gogh an Impressionist? Did Pisarro paint mostly landscapes? Did he paint Still Lifes too?

Eloise, I am about to take the virtual tour of the Eiffel Tower. The first page is just spectacular.

pissaro's impressionistic paintings are grayish from a distance a warm gray almost pik. at least as I remember them it doesn't show here in the links. I've looked at a lot of them. the landscapes from his window are the kind of thing I remember. the earlier stuff does look a little like van gogh. . except that it's much calmer. and I like the colors. they are not what I wuld call impresionistic though.

the most impressionistic painter that I knowof is Monet with his haystacks painted at all different times of the day to study the way light changed. we really should have some monet to go with pissaro.

http://tinyurl.com/snz83

claire

that's a great collection not all impressionism. .. picasso isn't but this is the technique here.

http://tinyurl.com/yfag33

Thank you for your posts, I am going to keep looking for more links, so we can get a feel of the country that the Impressionists fell in love with and transmitted through their paintings. How it has changed from one hundred and fifty years ago when they painted compared to the past 20 years.

I loved my train travel experiences when so many things happening that was unpredictable, sometimes scary, sometimes fabulous, let's say that I don't like routine.

Éloïse

I usually travel to and from La Gare de Lyon because it is where I take the train to go to Lausanne which is about 3 hours away. I know the station very well, where the ticket counter is, where the luggage handling is etc. etc.

So many things happened in that station, some were funny, some were tragic, some were just fun watching what is going on around you. La Gare de Lyon services Eastern France, it is very close to The Gare d'Austerlitz. The Gare du Nord services Northern France and Belgium.

When I travel alone, I have to ask for directions from perfect strangers, otherwise I might as well stay home because signage is so different from here. I recall one incident when I couldn't find the indication to go from the air terminal to the Gare de Lyon and as people were rushing by, I stopped a man and asked him which exit to take for the metro, he said "I don't know, I come from Montreal, but I am going to la Gare de Lyon too", I followed him and we got there without any problem.

Every time I took the train something unexpected happened, but I loved it anyway.

Éloïse

Claire, thank you. Thanks for the link too.

Eloise, hearing about your rides on the train at Le Gare de Lyon are exciting. Since I have never seen the station, thank you for the link.

I too have ridden the train out of the Gare de Lyon and also back into Paris from other places there.

Eloise, Have you eaten in the famous restaurant there. It is very expensive. It is in th style of the Grand Epoque. Here is a link for you all to see photos of it. It was too expensive for me to eat much there and also I di not find much that I could eat since I am diabetic. However it is a place to see when you are in Paris. Le Train Bleu

Hats there are many impressionist painters. Van Gogh iwas strongly influence by the impressionist painters. he met all of the early ones and all of his work is not impressionist He is classed as a post-impressionist. He is a very interesting artist. On my last trip I visited Auvers Sur Oise, the place where he died and is buried. Here is a good link to read about Van Gogh. Van Gogh also a link to read about Aivers sur Oise

I really enjoyed going to that place and seeing the church that Van Gogh painted. Also it was interesting to see the place where he is buried and the room inwhich he died. He was such a tragic figure. In fact I chose the trip I took because it had this side trip to Auver sur Oise. I will try to show you some of my photos of the area if I can get time to upload them to my computer.

I am really enjoying reading this book.

Joan Grimes

Joan, what a wonderful trip! I would love to see those photos. What a treat.

Yes, Joan P, I do think that the author's choice of depths is significant. However I am not sure that I won't to discuss that significance here in the pre-discussion. I will wait to see what Eloise thinks about that since I have not finished the book yet.

Joan Grimes

Yes, of course Joan, it was Claire who asked about color prints, you know my poor memory, sorry I didn't answer that, but no my paper back edition doesn't have any artword. It is a much used copy, but lots of art reading the novel.

I am so anxious to see your photos of Auvers sur Oise Joan G, for someone who has lived all your life in touch with art, it must have been a thrill. On day I was invited to a wedding that took place in the City Hall in the town of Menton in the South of France. All the walls and ceiling had been painted by Jean Cocteau and that lone was quite a thrill. \

Quite à propos Joan P. about the word "Depths" in the title, at first I thought how strange that word was, but the author had a purpose, what was it? then I thought it meant how deep the roots of glory go. It certainly doesn't just happen, bang, you are a famous artist, its a lifetime's work and pain. My own brother who has become quite famous in these parts as a watercolorist showed us his very first attempt, it was laughable. He said he had painted about 4 hours a day, seven days a week for the past 30 years. One day I will give you a link of his work, but you can search him in Google, Olivier Toupin, he has a web site. We all dabble in art in our family.

About Cousin Bette Joan P. I love Honoré de Balzac and if I joined in the discussion it would have to be in the original, I couldn't bear to read him in translation.

I am getting back to my former self after a year of intense activity with some health problems, it's about time, but I still have to wait a bit before I take on too many things. Right now I just want to relax and do fun things, like discussing Depths of Glory, but who knows what the new year will be like.

Éloïse

no need to read only to look at your brothers fine work. . .claire

http://galerieentrart.com/collectif/oliviertoupin.htm

Claire, I just had a shock at seeing my brother's face on that link. hahahaha I didn't see him face to face since a few years, Oh! yes, that happens you know. It says here: "et (il) fut élu président de la Société canadienne de l’Aquarelle pour un terme de 3 ans." and (he) was elected President of the Canadian Watercolor Society for a term of 3 years. He now lives in a remote area near the Gaspé Peninsula, hundreds of miles away. We look very much alike he and I. Thanks for the link.

Éloïse

Ginny,

I am reading that new book that you mentioned along with Depths of Glory. In fact I started it before I did Depth of Glory. I had ordered Private lives of The Impressionists to be delivered as soon as it was out and I received it before I did Depths of Glory.

Private Lives of the Impressionists is a very good book. I thought that I had mentioned it in this discussion but I guess that I didn't.

Joan Grimes

Joan G just mentioned that we don't want to jump ahead too much before we start and I think she is right. Also I encourage you to read 'A Group Portrait' by Sue Roe that Ginny just mentioned.

Music, painting, sculptures, literature all provide mind stimulation, for some it is only one of those, others it is a few of them, but it is there to describe the world we live in and this world is not always how we would like to see it portrayed by artists. We all have different world view and a painting is so personal, the painter's soul is there for all to see.

Impressionists softened and romanticized the world in their paintings, by avoiding scenes of war, extreme violence, starvation unless I am not familiar all of it, please remind me if they did.

Why did Impressionists only paint harmony? Women were most of the time young and beautiful, scenery was never ugly, even gray skies and storms looked peaceful and soft. Who can tell me why? Joan G perhaps who teaches art history.

Éloïse

now Eloise the word depths in the title caught my imagination too and that's all it is. No mind reader here but to me it's like this.

,when you are painting and suddenly it all comes together there is this AHA moment that is a kind of glory. It comes from the depths of your own mind, heart soul, experiences whatever. It makes it all worthwhile. And it's almost addictive . .

claire

"The new November 20 issue of People Magazine has an article on a new book called The Private Lives of the Impressionists by Sue Roe, a new book, a "group portrait" of the artists who founded the Impressionist movement in mid-19th Century Paris. Roe takes reader into the studios where Manet, Pissaro, Cezanne, Cassatt and Moristo met, honmed their craft, and struggled to make ends meet...."lively, required reading."

Thought you might like to know, I did not know that Monet was so "depressed about his family and failing finances that he threw himself into the Seine but was 'too good a swimmer to drown.'"

Looks like something that might add to your reading pleasure and background information if you could find a copy, FYI. We are always SO au courant here in the Books & Lit!"

Joan mentioned it and I tried to find it but didn't. I wish I could get my hands on it, I would read it along with this one.

Although Irving Stone mentions something about Monet, I don't remember him throwing himself into the Seine. We are going to get a good glimpse of each and every one in this discussion as Pissarro was in constant touch with them throughout their lives. Those who moved away, Stone explains why and where they were, so we are never at a loss as to what was happening during that time period about other painters, not only painters, but the gallery owners, the salons exhibits, their elusive popularity.

Claire, "it's almost addictive" I guess you might say it that way. But it's an addiction that everybody can enjoy compared with other addictions.

Éloïse

Ginny, thank you for telling us about the article in People magazine. Also, thank you for the title of the book about Impressionists.

LA SEINE A PARIS

There are 32 bridges that cross the Seine river, I was surprised to read in this link. The river flows at 30 feet below street level, not much you would say, about 3 stories. It's nice to walk on the river bank, you hardly feel that you are in the center of a big city as the buildings are never more than 6 stories high in the center of Paris. The tall buildings are in another "arrondissement" or district.

You can enjoy a slow walk trying to remember the songs written about the river, the novels and the movies with famous actors and actresses playing in them. The "bateau mouche" sails under several bridges full of dreamy eyed tourists. Someone from your own city can be sitting right next to you and you recognize their accents. You can chat with them or not depending on your mood because when you go to Paris for the first time, I don't know about you but I don't want to chat, just take in all you can, so much history surrounds you.

Tell us about your experience of the city, it would be nice to know how you all felt going there for the first time.

Éloïse

This painting was shown at the "Exposition Universelle de Paris in 1900"

Ancient Paris

It's hard to imagine today that sailboats navigated on the river Seine, but we see a bateau mouche similar to the ones in use today, at that time it was probably used for public transportation. Interesting.

I wanted to share this link about THE HISTORY OF PARIS.

It started as a little village, as we know, called Lutecia. The Louvre as a fortress first and started to be built in 1180 and the construction of Notre Dame de Paris started to be built in 1257. Robert Sorbon, chaplain of St. Louis founded the Sorbonne University.

800 years of history made Paris what it is today, I wonder how New York will be like 800 years from now?

Is there any interest in this I wonder?

Éloïse

I came across this poem by Anna Akhmatova which my interest this group:

To an Artist:

Your work that to my inward sight still comes,
Fruit of your graced labours:
The gold of always-autumnal limes,
The blue of today-created waters -

Simply to think of it, the faintest drowse
Already had led me into your parks
Where, fearful of every turning, I lose
Consciousness in a trance, seeking your tracks.

Shall I go under this vault, transfigured by
The movement of your hand into a sky,
To cool my shameful heat?

There I shall become forever blessed,
There my burning eyelids will find rest,
And I'll regain a gift I've lost - to weep.

~ 1924 "from Reed" ~ Anna Akhmatova

"Anna Akhmatova was the pen name of Anna Andreevna Gorenko, the leader and the heart and soul of St. Petersburg tradition of Russian poetry in the course of half a century.

Akhmatova's work ranges from short lyric poem to universalized ingeniously structured cycles, such as "Requiem" (1935-40), her tragic masterpiece on the Stalinist terror. Her work addresses a variety of themes including time and memory, the fate of creative women, and the difficulties of living and writing in the shadow of Stalinism." ~ Wikipwedia

Eight hundred years of French History makes America seem like an infant. We are so much younger. Eloise, thank you. Scrawler, thank you too.

Thank you Scrawler, lovely poem. It made me think of what an artist might feel after he/she has finishes a piece. Will it move others as much as it moves him/herself. There is more than technique or rhythm, or balance in artwork, I think that great artists are intensely moved by what they are doing.

"Where, fearful of every turning, I lose
Consciousness in a trance, seeking your tracks."

Painter, poets, musicians and writers all have to feel more intensely than others. Their elation and their pain is in their work for all to see.

That is why sometimes it's hard to understand Europeans I think Hats, how they have suffered with one war after another, it has taken a toll on the personality of these people, they are less joyous, (we used to say gay) than North Americans who have not gone through all that.

Éloïse

and to begin with england was sending us all her misfits. we're extremely diverse in every way. It keeps us on our toes. we're territorial and aggressive, but not exactly happy about it.

Claire

I love the impressionists and enjoy Irving Stone's books, so count me in

Juanita Millican

I am happy that you have decided to join this discussion. Did you read Depths of Glory before or are you going to be reading it with us in December?

I can't wait for November to end, it is the one month I don't like very much. Very wet and damp here, but not that cold. Soon, the hill in front of the house will be white for the next 6 months. I love it at first, but in the end it gets to be too much white.

I am sorry to hear about the tornadoes and wind damage in the US, I hope everyody is all right.

Éloïse

Waiting for December to start with the Depths of Glory discussion, HERE is a short but good description of what preceeded Impressionism. The Baroque period with Rambrandt, Vermeer, Valasquez, Rubens, Van Dyck.

Éloïse

Are we going to have a schedule for the chapters we are to read or will people have read the entire book before December 1? I haven't started reading the book yet.

Marjorie, thanks for the reminder about the schedule, definitely we are going to have a schedule much like the other discussions I will start working on this today and send it to Joan for posting with the new fabulous heading that she is doing for us right now.

I recommend that you start reading the book to absorb everything the author is telling his readers about this great man that was Pissarro. Irving Stone is a wonderful author of biographical novels, if you have read The Agony and the Ecstasy you know what I mean.

The prose is not just a description of everyday life, Irving S did extensive research on each painter's personality, not straying too far from Pissarro's life. It is full of emotion, exactly how a great artist would feel about his passion and it breathes life into the story.

Éloïse

Lovers of Impressionists painters I hope you are reading the Depths of Glory, the life of Camille Pissarro and you are as anxiously waiting to start the discussion as I am.

Éloïse

I am reading Eloise but my eyes are not doing well. So I have to take it in small bits. I love the book though. It is really interesting.

Joan Grimes

I wish all Americans a Happy Thanksgiving. I hope you will enjoy this holiday with your loved ones with all the good food that comes with it. We have already had our Canadian Thanksgiving in October, but I will be thinking about all of you my friends south of the border.

Éloïse

ELOISE: I started reading the other day. However, I have a paperback book and the print is very tiny. I guess because it is such a long book that was the only feasible way to create a paperback. I am starting Book 2 and enjoying the book.

Marjorie, I have the pocketbook edition too and the print is tiny, true. There are 14 books in all in Depths of Glory, but they are usually called chapters.

I am reading another biographical novel, this time it is the life of Honoré Balzac the author Joan P mentioned before who wrote Cousin Bette. This biography is written by Henri Troyat and it is interesting to read the life of a famous writer. It is well documented and as good as Depths of Glory about Camille Pissarro and the Impressionists.

Éloïse

The more I read of this book the more I like it. I am really enjoying it.

Joan Grimes

When I went to college, one of my courses was Humanities and I studied some of the artists at that time. I have not been one to go to art museums after that however. Reading this book I do recognize some of the names of other artists and, if I have the time, I may look up some of their paintings. It is really great that they are only a click away. I don't have to get dressed and go to a museum to find them. Some of the names are not familiar. I will leave more comments until we start discussing the book on December 1.

Marjorie, we will be posting links when we come across the names of other Impressionists and there are at least 20 of them to admire as we go along in the book. Several writers and sculptors are mentioned. I put several in hold until we start next week. I can't wait to start with Depths of Glory to enjoy them all.

I am amazed at how great artists have similar personalities. I am reading the life of Balzac a famous French writer, whose biography was written by Henri Troyat and both Pissarro and Balzac were consumed with work. Not only are artists workaholics and spend more hours working than resting, but everything else in their life takes a second place including their loved ones, and they usually have many both legitimate and others.

A lot of people have unsung artistic talent if I go by what my family has done over the years with music, painting, dancing and writing. One of them is making a good living with his painting, another is writing for television. Several family members play an instrument but few have the determination to stick with their art at all costs and they have had to look elsewhere to earn a living and are putting art on the back burner.

Television and movies have taken a stronghold on creativity it seems, it all ends there. Is this where it will all end up I wonder?

ELOISE: To me there is a lot of creativity on the Internet. It may be in the way a web page looks but more often it is in the availability of the many artistic images from all over the world. Some of our SeniorNetters do paintings on the computer so computer art is another new art form. I guess it all started with the paintings on the walls of caves didn't it. And the drums and/or flute-like instruments of early man. Everything evolves. But I don't think that anything completely disappears.

Marjorie, yes it's true and I tend to forget it perhaps because I haven't seen computer art very much except on Seniornet perhaps you could help us understand it as we go along in the discussion. Thanks for reminding us.

IRVING STONE, from the time he was a boy, knew he would become a writer. But after failing as a short story writer and a play writer, he found his calling as a biographical novelist. Traditional biographies lack convergence and emotion, he says. His biographies transport the reader to another time. The reader becomes the subject. Stone’s most popular novel Lust for Life, which tells the story of Dutch painter Vincent Van Gogh, was an instant page-turner when it was published in 1935.

Stone emphasizes, however, that he bases everything he writes on facts. For example, he spent five years researching the life and times of impressionist painter Camille Pissarro before he published Depths of Glory. He even enlisted the help of his wife, who spent just as much time editing his work as he did writing it, and two secretaries, whose jobs were to organize all of his research."

I have read The Agony and the Ecstacy the life of Michaelangelo by IS and that is why I wanted to read Depths of Glory. You will be amazed at the extent of his research about the other painters he mentions in this book. When I look at a painting I always wonder about the person behind the artist. I think the book will make us more aware of impressionists style after reading and discussing it.

I look forward to reading what participants will say because many have seen original paintings in museums and I hope they will tell us what impression they had when they first set eyes on these masterpieces.

Éloïse

Eloise, I have started the book. Thank you for giving such a wonderful introduction to Irving Stone's "Depths of Glory."

Marjorie, your post is packed with thought. Thank you.

I was never much of an Impressionist fan, but having read "Depths of Glory" I have began to understand the art because I now can relate to the men who produced it.

Hats, Scrawler and Marjorie, and everyone, we start in only 5 days now, are we ready?

Before we start with Impressionists we can look at the Renaissance paintings, this LINK is a well of information about artists we all know, Michaelangelo, Boticelli, etc and looking at their paintings, I am searching for the difference between genre in painting. It's not all that obvious to my untrained eyes. I usually like a painting or I don't, if I am indiferent, it means I don't like it enough.

Speaking of Renaissance, the discussion on the fifth volume of Story of Civlization by Will and Ariel Durant, called the Renaissance, will start on December 3rd. We can participate in both discussions, after all we are old pros aren't we?

The Renaissance movement started in Italy, meaning rebirth, the movement started in the 15th century and ended in the 16th century, it lasted a millinea and like any movement, it wanted to do away with the old ways and start something new. In fact nothing is new according to Will Durant, everything comes from something in the past. Oh! well.

Éloïse

I read "The Agony and the Ecstacy" many, many years ago. Went looking for the "Depths of Glory" today and was unable to find it. They didn't even have it in their database ? Is this a fairly new book ? I'll keep trying as I'd like to join this discussion.

My favorite Impressionist has always been Monet. I also like Degas. I've several books on Impressionist Art that I've never really read all the way through. I also have Monet's Table which is a beautiful book. Also love my book "Impressionists In Winter".

By-the-way, if you've seen Disney movies or Pixar you have seen "computer art". Actually I would go so far as to say any images (including computer enhanced) on any website could be considered computer art.
Emma

I was hoping that you would join us here in this discussion.

To answer your question, Depths of Glory is an old book. You can order the book online. Barnes and Noble and Amazon both have it from their used books dealers. I hope that you get the book. It is very well written and well researched. I have almost finished it and have enjoyed reading it very much.

Thanks for your answer to the query about computer generated art. Since you are so proficient with it, I am sure you are better qualified to answer that question than most of us here.

I have been a little under the weather with a cold. So have not posted here much. I have just been resting and reading the book.

Joan Grimes

I never heard of Lucy Bacon mentioned in the Wikipedia article. Was she not that good, or is this a result of the discrimination women faced in the art world? Do any of you know of her?.......jean

Joan P. I used to confuse Monet and Manet too, at one time I thought that they were one and the same until I saw some of their originals.

I am not sure that we will be discussing about art history per se Jean (Mabel1015J) because I.S. is a writer, but because his bibliography is so extensive and thorough, we cannot but absorb the historical facts mentioned in the book. Between historical data, he creates situations that could certainly have taken place between characters, because the dialogues are so plausible that we can easily relate to. It is normal interaction between people and families but the narration about painting and painters is genuine and true I am sure.

Jean, I love your mentioning women’s size 2. We have to smile at some old masterpieces where only slightly overweight women were painted in oils, I guess because women in real life at that time were so thin. Overweight people were the leisure and high-class, all the others were hard at work making a living on the farm from dawn to dusk eating very little because they were poor.

There are a few women painters mentioned in Depths of Glory, I didn’t have the impression that they were discriminated against because of their gender, but rather that not many women felt the urge to paint at that time in history, probably because women were all so busy with domestic chores that it left them very little time to paint. Those who did paint probably didn’t have a family to take care of. Remember that household chores use to take a lot more time than it does now.

Éloïse

Joan Grimes ~ thank you for the suggestion to find the book and thanks also for the welcome.
Just resting and reading sounds like a great idea...especially if one is not feeling well.

I prefer Monet over Manet (just a personal preference) but I think I read somewhere they were good friends.

Joan Pearson ~ The Internet is amazing isn't it. I mainly use it to view art and art websites as you probably have noticed in the SrNet discussion "Visual Art on the Web" (opens in a new window so you don't loose your place here).
Emma

EmmaBarb, I am so glad you are here. Thank you for the link to Visual Art on the Web.

EmmaBarb, thank you for the link, I enjoy increasing my knowledge in art.

" Pissaro makes impressionism happen!, January 2, 2006 Reviewer: Reading Fan "Romans 8:1" (Baltimore) -

This is another good book by Irving Stone, who also gave us Michelangelo in The Agony and the Ecstasy and Van Gogh in Lust for Life, both of which were made into major movies a half-century ago. The movies were good and had great actors, but the books were even better. This book would make a pretty good movie too, probably a psychological drama.

Stone's books are a chance to see great artists up close and behind the scenes. Since he is doing historical fiction, Stone takes you right into Pissaro's home and right up to his canvas as he is working, and right into his conversations with Monet, Renoir, and the rest at the local pubs. You are even in his head as he creates his art, which is a bit risky, but seems to work. You are there at the birth of Impressionism. It was exciting, at least for me, to get close to these legends.

Surprisingly, it was Pissaro who was the prime mover for the Impressionists exhibitions as a means to expose and educate the hostile audience of that day. The word Impressionism was like a dirty word in those days when the public only wanted clearly executed, classical or romantic paintings of such artists as Delacroix or Courbet. It's really hard to imagine today what made the critics and the public so angry in those days. Was it a bad idea to be innovative? Was it worth almost rioting over? What was the deal with being creative or a little different with your expression?

Organizing anything among this wild group of Impressionist bohemians was almost miraculous, but Pissaro possessed exceptional people skills (always a rare quality, then as now) that made it happen. It is very unlikely that anyone else at the time could have done it. At the same time he and his family were living hand-to-mouth, and you have to wonder how his wife put up with him (just barely, I think).

Almost a century after his time, Pissaro finally gets his due, at least in this book."

Éloïse

Emmabarb and Joan Grimes - thanks for that wonderful website of the visual arts. I can spend a lot of time there....

yes, many women were too busy to spend any time painting, but there were some and often they didn't get credit for what they did. Often they were dgts or wives of painters/sculptors/metalsmiths who actually had their own talents, but because women were not supposed to be active in the public sphere, their works were presented as those of the men in the family. And when historians went looking for artists, they didn't look for women, but documented only men's art. Women's art was often seen as a pasttime or hobby, not a career.

Of course, even those busy women were often artists of quilts, rugs, clothing, painted furniture, etc. All considered "Housekeeping" not "art.".......thank goodness, some of those arts are now being appreciated and some of those hidden artists are now being recognized......jean

He lived near some friends of mine in Santa Monica Canyon why back when my kids were small and we were involved with a coop nursery school which met there at rustic canyon park. Their opinion was that he was a difficult person. I never met him, but have always enjoyed his novels. I look forward to reading this one but am put off by the small print in the paperbacks. will lok for a hard back even though those are hard to hold. aging makes even reading a good book problematical.. .claire

are still at a disadvantage when it comes to beingshown and collected. claire

I have a problem too with very small print, even a magnifying glass doesn't make it easier.

I think I said I'd join this group earlier on - I still have doubts as we will be away for much of December. I'll have access to SN but finding time might be difficult. Anyway I picked up the book today at my library - just walked in and plucked it off the shelf - it's hardbacked and heavy - took it with me into the hairdresser and read a little while she 'did' me.

I won't be able to do it justice but will try and probably lurk around the discussion if you don't mind.

I've enjoyed everyone's pre-discussion comments and the links will keep me busy when I should be packing etc.

WINSUM: You are so right about women in art still being disadvantaged especially in the marketplace - my own work sells better when it is signed with a male sounding "nom de brush" - even comments from people who should know better have a different slant and emphasis when they're viewing my 'male' work than when they discuss work shown under my real signature. 'Twas ever thus.

I have started the book. I hope we are going to have a schedule in the heading. Without a schedule, I might linger on one chapter too long.

Schedule for Depths of Glory by Irving Stone

December 1st to 8th – Book 1 to book 4
December 9th to 15th - Book 5 to book 8
December 16th to 22nd – Book 9 to book 11
December 23rd to 31st – Book 12 to book 14

Hats, this is the schedule and Joan will be putting it in the heading. I am so glad you have started the book and I am looking forward to seeing your comments on it. It is so interesting to read about the life of people who have brought so much to the world and most of the time, they didn't even know that they did because for some of them their life was so dismal.

It's the same old thing about women being unrecognized for their talents outside of the home Jean. Do you think that it is because women can bear children and men can't? Well I don't want to start a discussion on feminism at all, but it is just a thought that came to my mind. Perhaps men are envious of women for this and want to dominate the scene elsewhere, what do you think?

Claire , Irving Stone lived in California and he was a neighbor of yours? When we read his books, he doesn't seem to be difficult, but I noticed something about how he writes about women in this book after reading it and I won't mention that until we reach the conclusion and ask what you all think about it and if you noticed the same thing.

My sister told me how she reads hard cover books and I don't know why I didn't think about it sooner. She sits in a comfortable chair with arm rests and puts a cushion on her lap and rests the book on the cushion. I just tried it reading a heavy book last week and believe me it works. I could read a big book for hours with this method. Oh! yes, I also have a wooden rocking chair with arm rests like hers.

One friend told me she ordered the book from Amazon for one dollar and it is hard cover.

Éloïse

Eloise, thank you.

I have a leaning board (used mostly for drawing) which fits across the arms of my chair and rests on a small table in front of me - heavy books are no trouble. I must say the man of the house made it specially to fit - the incline suits my eyesight perfectly for reading - and drawing....

I've just started reading "Immortal Wife" by Irving Stone. Has any one here read? And what did you think of it?

Gumtree, what a wonderful invention! I bet it's awfully comfortable.

not at either of my local libraryies or my usual paperback exchange. will follow along here and see what eve4ryone who is reading has to say. I did collect a nice pissarro image sometime ago will look for it. it was luminous but . . . there is a but.

claire

I read "Immortal Wife" it's my favorite STone book so far. Maybe because I didn't know much about either of the Fremonts and i learned alot by reading it, but probably more so becuase i just loved Jessie Fremont, and also her Father, who treated her so respectfully, as tho she was smart and capable of doing anything, especially politics. The story of JOhn and the state of Calif is fascinating also.......

(I just can't get my finger off that caps key fast enough).....LOL....jean

I was just here which is contemporary art much of it in new york somhere in CA.

http://lx.tv/?gclid=COmyvNuh7YgCFSdIYQodanTEjg

several movie clips. makes me want to go visit my daughter again. shes' thirty five miles from manhaten and last time we did the STORMTHING and soho. I wasn.t very mobil then and even less now but where there is a will???

Scrawler and Mabel thanks for mentioning "Immortal Wife" by Irving Stone. I would like to Know about the Fremonts. Winsum thank you for the link.

When I look at beautiful paintings, I never see all of a painting the first time. If I return to the same painting, there is something I missed the first time: a bush, a window, a musical instrument, etc. I know we are going to enjoy beautiful paintings while reading through Depths of Glory. Is there a right way or a wrong way to enjoy Art? Are there certain rules we need to carry along with us in order to fully appreciate the beauty of art?

Hats you have asked wonderful quesions to start us off- You asked "Is there a right way or a wrong way to enjoy Art? Are there certain rules we need to carry along with us in order to fully appreciate the beauty of art?"

I am thinking of some basic things we teach as docents . Among these thing are the following: as you look at a painting remember the Elements of art which are Line,space, color, texture, and shape. Ask yourself questions about these elements. There is a difference in looking and seeing. You are realizing that difference when you realize that the first time you look at a painting you do not see everything.

We will talk more about this kind of thing as we get into the discussion.

Joan Grimes

Gumtree, you are lucky to have someone to make a board for your reading comfort. My husband used to be very handy and after he died I learned to handle hammer and nails but I don't do any of that any more and "make do".

Hats, I don’t follow rules as a rule, I am a rebel since birth to my mother’s regret and I am by far not an expert in art, I just enjoy it but I want to learn.

Lets look at this Pissarro painting we now have in the heading, click on it to enlarge. Starting from the top left corner, the blue of the sky is veiled by clouds painted in a semi circle bringing in the sky closer. On the top right side, some of the trees are farther away because they are darker green, black, yellow, perhaps blue also. Let your eyes slip down the right side and the dark green of the trees at the top are bluer and they look closer because the leaves are more clearly defined.

The road at the bottom is PINK, what a pink road? We have to admit it is exactly right the right color making it soft and cushy. Streaks of yellow across the road indicate sunlight peeking through clouds. Shadows in the trees, on the road and on the farmland beyond the road gives the painting depth. The woman walking on the road has no face, but that is how Pissarro saw the woman from far away on the river shore.

Oh! How pretty that river is, the white on the left bottom corner makes us feel as if we are standing at that very spot. So many colors in that river, notice the triangle. That scene covers perhaps half a mile long of landscape. We can see farmland beyond the trees, with its yellow crop and next to it a green crop, it must be Spring there because the crop is not quite ripe, I don’t know, it’s just a guess. The trees are reflected in the slightly shimmering river. How many colors do we see in the river? I count 10 and perhaps there are 20 colors. So much more to see and not enough time to stand looking at it.

How do you all see this painting in the heading?

Tomorrow we will start discussing the novel, are you excited?

Thank you for answering my questions. I am a beginner at appreciating art. Your answers are perfect guidelines. I am looking forward to learning more about Art as we travel along.

I am totally excited about the book, Depths of Glory. I feel a part of the world in which Pisarro lived.

Joan, right, there is a difference in looking and seeing and seeing is what we must learn to do in order to really appreciate art to its fullest. I admit that I am looking more than analyzing and 'seeing' as you say and after we have gone through this discussion I am sure we will all appreciate art much more. Keep informing us.

Éloïse

The Pisarro painting in the heading is beautiful. Marjorie, thank you for placing the painting in the heading.

I love the variety of greens in this painting - I find I have to get back further from the screen to view - then when I take off my glasses the colours tend to meld so that the little patch of green grass or field in the distance becomes a true emerald colour and the whole painting becomes more realist in style. The effect of sunlight in the foliage on the right and across the road is pretty awesome.

I have barely started the book so am not really ready to begin the discussion - so already I'm in catch-up mode!

the colors are distorted in that they are like bright colors and not at all subtle as the artist itended. I checked to see if the program is ok and it is but the colors are not..reds too bright same as greens blues too simple disappointing for me.

hats when I go to a gallery or a museum I scurry around looking at everything first and then go back and take my time with what caught my eye. everyone has their own way of looking at art.

Joan as a docent analysis it, I as a artist feel it and place it in whatever I happen to know of it's historical group to see if the artist belonged there or was influenced by the others there.andf what was personal about it. and somewhere along the line I wonder if I had painted it would I like it, m own personal assessment of it's success. Of course the artist had different goals in mind and it's ONLY my OPINION.

just go look and see and feel. personally I think analising is like tearing the petals off of a rose to see how it's made.. . .claire

I like the vagueness of impressionism art, the fact that every detail is not delineated. I'm not sure why, maybe because that's the way we - I - see the world. When i look down the road i don't see every leaf on the trees or every stone in the road, or every muscle on the body as the realism period shows us. I have to focus on something small to get the detail. So, especially in landscape pictures, the impressionistic style seems more "real" to me, but it also gives me a chance to use my imagination and bring the scene into "focus" in my mind. It may also be the colors. i prefer muted to bold colors, altho i like some of the bold-color paintings of Pisarro's of the houses and the individuals' clothing.........yeah, o.k, i'm confused......but i do know i like looking at them! ......jean

Joan, if we are going to learn to understand art from another perspective we should start with the basics that you posted which are:

"As you look at a painting remember the Elements of art which are Line,space, color, texture, and shape. Ask yourself questions about these elements. There is a difference in looking and seeing. You are realizing that difference when you realize that the first time you look at a painting you do not see everything."

It is like going to school, before we learn physics and chemistry, we have to learn how to read and write. Imagine that we are all new to this exercise, but willing to learn. We will be making lots of mistakes at first, we will not see the forest for the trees and what lies behind the brush strokes. So next time, I will try and look for "Line,space, color, texture, and shape" even if that is still obscure to me. I will need a lot of help.

Why don't you put your sentence in the heading so we will not forget?

What fun it's going to be, we will come out with a lot more knowledge, I might even get to like modern art.

Claire, you said: "personally I think analising is like tearing the petals off of a rose to see how it's made.. . yes, it's true but analyzing it doesn't destroy a painting does it? It might even have more value in our eyes.

Jean, I think you said it like a Impressionist art enthusiast, to me it is "soft" and "sweet". Boy how corny can that be but I don't know how to say it differently.

Éloïse

I am so glad that a discussion is not a class, it is just talking back and forth as if we were sitting in our living room with friends. We want to enjoy each and everyone's post choosing our words carefully so as not to offend anyone. I hope that this discussion will follow the wonderful Seniornet practice that has kept it the most pleasant site on the Internet ever since I have started almost 10 years ago. I hope that this discussion will not be different because:

TOMORROW MORNING WE WILL START, DEPTHS OF GLORY BY IRVING STONE

Please join us,

Éloïse

In Pisarro's painting, the one in the header, my eyes focus on color first. I love the water. There are so many colors in the water. Whatever is on land I see reflected in the water: orange, blue, browns, pinks and greens. I feel like the Impressionists style or technique of painting might have given them a better chance to catch the beauty of water.

Question #1.

I think some parents today are the same as Pisarro's parents. A few parents might think of their child's financial well being first. This is what Pisarro's parents felt. Think about money first, not whether you are happy doing the work that makes the money. However, Pisarro felt he was born to paint.

My son found the joy of both worlds. He loves cars. He loves money too. So, he builds transmissions. Thankfully, he always has money to spend too. Of course, not all of my children were so lucky.

I am glad the Elements of Painting will go in the heading. I have written the list down.

Welcome to the discussion Depths of Glory everybody. I am so glad that we are finally in December.

I have to go out for a few hours, I will be back around noon with more about this great Impressionist painter that was Camille Pissarro, I will enjoy reading your comments.

Éloïse

"The identifying feature of the [Impressionists] work was an attempt to record a scene accurately and objectively, capturing the transient effects of light on colour and texture. To this end they abandoned the traditional muted browns, grays, and greens in favour of a lighter, more brilliant palette; stopped using grays and blacks for shadows; built up forms out of discrete flecks and dabs of colors; and often painted out of doors, rather than in the studio. They abandoned tradional formal compositions in favour of a more casual and less contrived disposition of objects within the picture frame, and their subject matter included landscapes, trees, houses, and even urban street scenes and railroad stations." ~ answers.com

To me one of the things that was always difficult to realize the full text of the paintings of the Impressionists was that in order to grasp the painting you had to stand at a very far distance. So you really needed a place like a museum to really feel the depth of the painting.

After reading "Depths of Glory" I began to understand the concept of using the lighter colors such as "pink" for the road in the painting in the heading. Is there really a "pink" road? Perhaps not and yet it all seems to fit together somehow and does I think show colour, light, and texture in a very soft pleasing way.

If I am seeing correctly, the woman's dress is also pink. Could Pisarro have used the pink color of the road to bring our eye back to the woman? Otherwise, because of her size she is almost lost among the trees and nature.

When I look again at the painting, I notice the road first. Then, my eye follows the road and meets the woman. Maybe the woman is meant to be more significant than I first thought.

I like this painting as it is serine, peaceful with the light colors it makes me me comfortabe, peaceful at ease in this troubled world. I would display it hoping it would do the same for others.

Scrawler, when I stood in front of large paintings by Impressionists, in fact, I did have to stand back to grasp the whole ensemble, because nearer I could not help but concentrate on one detail of it and I think the computer, perhaps because it is so much smaller than the painting, gives us a further look. "Is there a pink road?", perhaps color to us means something else to a painter. I have never seen a pink road.

Joan P, using a sponge to paint huge pictures must be so much fun and it covers a lot more ground than using a fine brush. But seriously, anything is usable in painting I think. I would say also that the painting in the heading was certainly done in his later years, here: is an example of how Pissarro began a painting

"She is lot among the trees",Hats and did you notice that often the face is just an oval with nothing inside it as if the woman in the picture is not the main focus point? What is the main theme here? perhaps Joan Grimes could tell us what it is.

It is very serene and soft as everybody seems to agree with Ginger, look at other paintings by him by clicking on the links above and you will see later why I think his work matches his personality. Pissarro was a very gentle man.

Hi JoanP! I just had to say hello. I am glad you are here too. Eloise, thank you for the very interesting and helpful website.

Well, this is the supposed to be the first day of the discussion of the book which is about Pissarro's life. Since this is supposed to be a discussion Of Shaw's book, it seems to me that we should be discussing that.

I will say one more thing about the painting in the heading. I do not see a pink road. I see a road which is an orangy color to me. That is ta common color around the Southern US. It is what is called red clay. They have dirt that color in the South of France too. I know that for a fact. I just supposed that they must have it too in Northern France in some areas. So lets look more closely at Eloise's questions in the heading.

I certainly don't think that parents today would be any more satisfied with their children becoming an artist than Pissarro's were about his choice of careers. Money really means alot to most people today and they would not want to educate their children in something that would not make money.

What do you all think about that question?

What do you think about Stone's presentation Of Pissarro early in the book?

Joan Grimes

Oh! zut, windows updates has removed my favorites and have added things I don't know anything about. I don't like that, but I will have to look for them, they must be somewhere. !!!!

The author gives us so much to think about it boggles the mind. In the first pages the cab driver who talks about the renovations of Paris by Baron Haussmann comments that "Napoleon III wants to make Paris a marble city, as beautiful as ancient Rome. He wants to build wide boulevards where his troops can shoot down protesters..." well Paris has the grandeur of ancient Rome with wide boulevards and monuments that compare with Rome.

Camille arrived just at the right time didn't he? Down with the old, on with the new and with the 1855 first Exposition Universelle, Camille was awed by its grandeur.

A lot of ground was covered on the first day I think and thank you all for your comments.

Éloïse

I followed them al and the links to which they led as well. it seems that pissarro was something of a father to the young ceznne who was post impressionist but used the impressionist color within his interest i shapes and composition and perspective. it's a broad field. I haen't read the shaw book and don't feel the need so can't discuss it. in fact I'll pick this one up someday but as for the information it's really available in all those many links. claire

it's still true that if you are male and do that you'd better have a "day job" and if you are female expect to be discriminated against and either be supported by some willing male creature or get a day job as well. the market for art relies on the taste of the times which is a moveable feast. Best to not count on it for sustnenece.

claire

and the story is that a "Pisarro" is stolen from a museum, the most expensive piece in the museum. It's the seond time it was "stolen" "the first time the Nazis stole it" - i assume the story is going to be that it was taken from a Jewish family.......How ironic is this???.....jean

I'm really only a lurker for this discussion.So far, I've only read the first two books. - Am a bit overwhelmed by the amount of information Stone is giving us not only about what's going on in France and in fact elsewhere as well in the rundown of the papers Pisarro is reading - but also the number of artists, literary figures and their lives,work, foibles etc which are presented seemingly one after the other - This book could take forever to discuss...I love it but it is a lot to consider fully in limited time.

As for Pisarro as he is presented - he seems a well mannered, well brought up young man - perhaps a little too mature for his age - he certainly knows what he wants to do and simply perseveres. As a side issue - he's made me determine to do more sketching - much more!

At this point in the book Pisarro seems the most well-adjusted of any artist i've ever read about. He has passion, but he seems rational about it, figuring out what he ought to be doing to improve on his work. Having read about Michaelangelo and Van Gogh, this guy seems almost tranquil in comparison.....LOL.....jean

Painting in the heading: I see the path shadow more lavender than pink. The lady is not alone. There is a young girl to the side of the path with the lady. I see a face in the larger painting of the lady.

Impressionist painting is more about color than about detail.

The finer art schools in my area are very expensive and hard to get into. You end up with a studio arts degree.
If you are selling around here expect to be part of a group of artists and exhibit with them.

I've not found the book as of today so will just be reading your comments.

Book One: Paris:Chapter 2:

"Though the French people had previously talked animatedly to strangers on the long, lumpy coach rides, in these new railroad carriages they were reduced to a numb silence, their expression seeming to say: "What a relief to be done with the rolling, pitching coaches crashing over mud and rock-strewn roads, locked into smelly boxes with an opaque window the size of a kerchief, and obliged to stop at still another inn for a change of horses."

I thought this was a beautifully written paragraph. The railroad at this time period represented the "new" world just as someday the "Impressionists" would represent the "new" world of art.

I also thought it interesting that the "French people had previously talked animatedly to stangers..." while riding the coach, but in the "new" railroad they rode in numb silence. Doesn't it seem to you that we have lost some of that friendship previously found while riding stagecoaches.

What do you think of the reason that the author presents of why they were "reduced to a numb silence"? Can we relate to this idea? Even though we get to places today quicker by plane, don't we by flying loose some of that friendship and perhaps the romantism that goes with that kind of travel.

I just have time to read your interesting posts this morning because we had power outage and I had to go downstairs where my daughter lives as they have a fireplace and I am going to see a play this afternoon. I will get back here this evening, this icy weather seems to be over now but it's very windy still.

JOAN P: To me the painting in the heading has a lyrical quality. It seems to move gently. The painting you posted is more static, rigid, and dark. In the painting you posted the difference between the sky and the rest of the picture is dramatic. In the one in the heading the sky appears to be part of the picture. I don't know if that is because of the bit of sky between the trees, the colors used, or the reflection of the sky in the water. I know I could spend a lot of time looking at the one in the heading but not the one you posted.

Also, JOAN, you said "then left their Jewish faith" because of the trouble getting the marriage recognized. I don't think that is quite true. They may no longer have attended the synagogue but to me (with a Jewish upbringing) I see many things that are part of being Jewish. I don't know what chapter it was in but in Paris Rachel lights the Friday night candles and says the blessing. That is definitely a Jewish tradition.

EMMA BARB: Thanks for pointing out how much more can be seen by looking at the larger version of the painting in the heading. I didn't see the face that you mentioned but did see the other person.

Ohhhhh! look at this? wonderful Marjorie, Joan P. I just came home and had dinner, but I will be back again here with my reaction this evening. I just love this.

Jean, a Pissarro was stolen? How can anyone sell a stolen masterpiece? It will always be recognized, it’s not like steeling a car when they can dismantle it and sell the parts. Does it go into a private collection? Perhaps.

Gumtree, that’s right, Stone gives us so many details about not only the painter, but what goes on in the world in Camille’s immediate surroundings, his family, his friends, the government, the environment, history, the works. Page after page is a treasure to read. He talks about painting too, but it seems to me that Irving Stone was not an avid art collector, I can be wrong.

I love the train part. I traveled so much on French trains and it is the most interesting place you can be. People don’t talk to each other on short distances, but when we had train compartments with each six seats let me tell you that nobody can be ignored or ignore others in there. I like France for that. If you speak the language, you are not lonely.

The Jewish faith is transmitted through the mother. If you mother is Jewish, you are Jewish, but if the father is Jewish and the mother is not, no wonder Camille’s parents didn’t approve of Camille marrying a Catholic. It is just not done and even if the Pissarros didn’t practice their religion that much, they still had a deep love of their faith and Rachel never forgave her son for this ‘treason’.

L'Exposition Universelle of 1855 was probably the kick start of the Industrial Revolution that shook the world at the time. Machines would replace muscles for the mass production of products.

There were new locomotives and luxurious railway carriages on display; gas street lighting as a recent industry. Electric batteries, exploratory light bulbs.

My grandmother was born in 1840 and my mother had never even seen an automobile until she was a teenager, can we imagine what life would be without a telephone or even a car? There would not be suburbs as we know them, sprawling far and wide outside of the city core. I even remember ice being delivered by a horse drawn carriage. I must tell that to my grandchildren because they probably think it happened centuries ago on another planet!!!

"At the ‘Palais de l’Industrie’ experimental machines were exhibited….Another novelty from America was an invention called a “sewing machine” next to which a sign read: “In the coming era nothing will be done by hand.” I sew and I love it. I know you do too Joan P.

How true that turned out to be, sewing by hand is a craft, almost an art but a century and a half ago all the sewing was done by hand.

Joan Pearson ~ I love Pissarro's clouds don't you. That painting really shows how he painted clouds in a circular motion (as well as the street below) to give it perspective. He has more than one focal point though. No doubt an earlier painting.
Oh I love that St. Thomas painting when he was only 26.

Those stolen masterpieces are usually in private collections (I've read). A thief would be a fool to sell it on eBay What bothers me is I doubt the thief handles the painting with the delicate care it deserves and the paintings are often ruined...especially if they're cut from the frame and rolled up.

JoanP, A Creek in Saint Thomas is very beautiful. It is very exciting seeing all Pissarro's paintings. Emmabarb I am glad you wrote about the painting of the clouds in a circular motion. You also wrote about more than one focal point. That is very interesting.

I also felt sorry for Rachel because five of her children died. She had a lot of strength to survive such inconceivable pain. I can't imagine losing one child. It must take great strength to go on living through another hour, day, month, years.

I think it is very interesting to read how countries and governments steal famous works of arts from other countries. While reading about the theft of the art from China, I felt very sad. It's really sad when these stolen pieces are not taken back or given back to the rightful countries. The art of a country is a part of their heritage.

Irving Stone describes the types of art stolen from China: folding screen inlaid with ivory and quartz, cinnabar and lacquered vases, porcelain figurines, scrolls depicting Chinese village life.

What is "cinnabar?"

Hats ~ I have a couple carved red braclets made from "cinnabar". It's a gemstone. Go to http://www.google.com and click the "Images" tab...type in cinnabar and you should see some beautiful specimens.

EmmaBarb, that' great! Going now. It's spectacular!!! That color red just jumps off the page. I have never heard of cinnabar. Believe me, I won't forget seeing it.

My post about Rachel is a few posts past. I did want to write down the words Rachel uses in the book to describe her pain.

"Death must be my friend, he is so constantly by my side."

Book 1: Chapter 3: "...Whole rows of buildings had been demolished, narrow winding streets had disappeared in the rubble...It looks as though an invading army has destroyed the city."

"...Our crazy Emperor Napoleon III - he's an emperor like my old nag is a race horse at Amiens - with his new commissioner brought in from Poitiers. Name Haussman. They're tearing down the whole city."

"...A game easy to cheat at. The Emperor says, 'To make Paris a marble city, as beautiful as ancient Rome.' He says he wants to be another Augustus. It's a lie. He wants to get rid of the narrow streets so the people can't tear up the cobblestones and revolt like in 1848. He's going to build wide boulevards where his troops can shoot down protestors..."

"Nobody in power does anything good for the people. Look at my half-dead horse and rotted cab. How in a miserable lifetime - look at my mug, can you tell if I'm old or young - could I save the money for a new horse and carriage?"

I love the way Stone wraps his thoughts around what is happening in Paris at the time that Camille arrives in Paris. "Whole rows of buildings had been demolished, narrow winding streets had disappeared in the rubble." But out of this rubble will also come Camille's "new" art form symbolic like the Pheonix rising from the ashes.

"He wants to get rid of the narrow streets so the people can't tear up the cobblestones and revolt like in 1848..." Camille replies: "...Even as a youngster here I remember that parts of Paris were wretched slums, proverty-stricken, traps for tuberculosis."

This is another reason I like Stone's writing. He gives us two sides of the same coin. Perhaps Napoleon III did want to widen the streets of Paris in order to "shoot down protestors"; keeping in mind that during this time period there were several revolts in Europe. But in doing so he also improved the conditions of the slums. We also have to keep in mind that Napoleon III was a "modern" man who believed in science and art and who on some level tried to understand all his people.

"Nobody in power does anything good for the people." In some ways this statement brought me back to the present. I suspose depending on where you are on the ladder you could either think that the "powers that be" are doing something for you or that they are doing nothing for you. I think by this statement Stone was foreshadowing what was to come for Camille in his own life.

I don't know that I agree that Camille's art needed the city of Paris to produce his art, but I do think that he progressed from the art he did on the islands to the art he produced later on in Paris. Just as we all grow in our creativity; he needed new and interesting motifs to make his art come to life.

JoanP, I can not see this last painting, Jalais Hill, Pontoise. What am I doing wrong? I see it now. Thank you.

Scrawler,This is your quote below. I did find it interesting to learn more about Napoleon. If this is the right Napoleon, I have always read about his conquering spirit, his relationship with Josephine and his exile to the island. I didn't know about his deep desire the modernize and change France and/or Paris.

"But in doing so he also improved the conditions of the slums. We also have to keep in mind that Napoleon III was a "modern" man who believed in science and art and who on some level tried to understand all his people."

I'm not sure what's wrong, Hats - try this one - the smaller version

If you still can't view it - try this link right to - the Metropolitan Museum of Art and then you can enlarge it from there...

Have a super Sunday!

JoanP, I can see it. I posted too soon.

Hats this is not the Napoleon who was married to Josephine and who was exiled to the Island of Elba . That was Napoleon Bonaparte, who was NapoleonI. To read about Napoleon III you might want to click on the following link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III_of_France

Joan Grimes

Joan Grimes, thank you. I am confused by the Napoleons. Thank you for the link too.

Hats to be confused by the Napoleons is not at all unusual.

One of the best things about this book is that we are learning so many things. We are not just learning about one artist but many artists as well as alot of history.

I really love this book.

Joan Grimes

I love it too. Irving Stone' s writing style is wonderful.

CINNABAR

"The term "native mercury" is used for natural mercury found associated with the mineral cinnebar. Mercury was named after the planet Mercury that was named after the Roman god of travel. Mercury is also known by the popular name of quicksilver, derived from the Greek words, hydros meaning water, and argyros meaning silver, because this silvery mineral occurs at room temperature as a liquid. The symbol for mercury, Hg, was derived from the name, hydrargyrum.

Camille meets Gustave Courbet at a brasserie and they discuss the politics of Napoleon III and Baron Haussmann for their Herculean undertaking in Paris.

Courbet was a Realist painter, I guess that means that he paints as close to what he sees as he can and I wonder if he is one among the Impressionist painters because I see a very big difference in their style.

Camille and his brother Alfred were close, but Alfred seemed to be a spoiled brat, "Camille knew that his brother was a dashing figure in his outward appearance but a quivering one inwardly, given to moodiness, bouts of melancholy. He was good at business but became bored by it..... I fear that something will happen with Rachel's children.

Look at this: Alfred confides to Camille about having an affair with Antoinette who was a 'bonne' a maid,... and Camille warns her that she might expect him to marry her and he replied: "Oh! come now! Does one marry a bonne? No, one did not marry a bonne in high society 150 years ago.

Has that changed do you think today? Does anyone in high society marry below their station? Do you think that today there is such a thing as a 'bad match' a 'mésalliance'? Or is it a thing of the past?

In Chapter 8 of Book 2 I found an interesting passage. It is particularly interesting because that was supposed to be about 1857 and pictures (as JOAN posted) both before and after that date had more black than color (at least to my eyes).

Here is the section I mean right after Camille describes the countryside:

"... The luxuriant patches among the ripening fields were a dozen different shades of green.

"'More than I can mix on my palette?' he wondered. 'From the lightest yellow-flecked green to the darkest olive. This Seine Valley was apportioned and planted with a palette knife.'"

This passage makes me think of the painting in the heading.

Joan Pearson ~ Wonderful clouds again in the early painting by Pissarro. The lady in the lane appears to be carrying a parasol. I've always loved Monet's parasol painting "La Promenade"

Something interesting I happened onto, Cezanne & Pissarro Exhibit. (They want you to register to see the larger images, I didn't feel like doing that.)

Emma Barb,

That is one of my favorite Monet Paintings too.

I think there is a link in the heading to that Cezanne/Pissaro when it was at the MOMA. You do not have to register to see the larger views of the paintings at the MOMA EXhibition site. I saw this exhibition at the Musée Dorsey when I was in Paris last March. It was just wonderful.

Joan Grimes

The link in the heading called Power Point Presentation of some of Pissarro's paintings with music, is the same as this one HERE. It is great to look at Pissaro paintings to the sound of a great French singer, Charles Aznavour singing "Il Faut Savoir". The link takes about 3 minutes to download, but by seeing each painting filling the screen you can see details clearly. We see Madame Pissarro sewing by the window also their daughter mending socks.

I don't know if the colors on my computer shows the same colors on other computers, or if they are the same colors as the original, I don't know, but we have to be content with what we find. Hearing Charles Aznavour whith the presentation is nice. I urge everybody to take the time to wait for the 3 minutes download when you click on the link "Press to View", it's well worth it.

Pointoise is where P painted so much of his work. Because of the considerable number of paintings that have become a masterpiece he had a good life.

I am so glad that the author included Julie in the book, not only because of the romantic side in the life of Pissarro, but a woman is also responsible for the success of her man, or his downfall sometimes. I like Irving Stone for that, I feel he truly understands women.

Eloise, I really enjoyed the link you have just mentioned. The music is beautiful, so enjoyable while looking at the paintings. I thought it so interesting how Pissarro could paint Julie nude while she wore all of her clothing. Pissaro must have been familiar with the human anatomy.

I loved Julie's memories about Passy, her village.

EmmaBarb, thank you for your website too.

I found Stone's not specifically mentioning that Camille's father was Jewish when he first described the mother and father, as an interesting tactic. He lets us in on that info by subtly talking about the sabbath candles, not eating tref or pork, etc. Or that Alfred was "half in love w/" a Rothchild or a Levi. Is he telling us that that was not an important part of Camille's life? Or not the MOST important part, just a piece of his life?

On pg 56 of my book Camille "talks" about painting portraits and all the differenct kinds of features and goes on to talk about voices. It has always amazed me that of the thousands of voices that we "know" we can distinguish almost immediately who is talking, a voice is so distinctive.

Can someone tell me the translation of "bois?" I think i remember from high school French that "pont" is bridge, but i don't know if bois is street, or road, or what?

Rachel really is a negative person, she would annoy me.

In book 2, section 8 Stone says "there were complaints that France was Americanizing itself....in the worst ways." The more things change, the more they stay the same....tic. In that same paragraph he talks of Flaubert being arrested for Madame Bovary. That certainly was surprising, my perception of France was much less prudish!

I loved Stone's method in Book 2, chapter 9 where he has Camille take "Rachel shopping" and in the process of the conversation bringing out the points of Franklin having lived in Passy, of the family not eating tripe and keeping kosher and her opinion of artists not making any money. In a few short paragraphs w/out stating these issues directly, he again subtly tells us about the place and the people.

Have loved all the sites that people are providing and your conversations, and am enjoying the book......jean

Hats if I'm not mistaken you were thinking of Napoleon Bonaparte, I believe Napoleon III was his grandson.

Book Two: "The Young See Visions" Chapter 1:

"...Hardly a week passed that he did not receive some helpful instruction from Corot or Melbye. And hardly a month passed without an admonishing letter from his father in St. Thomas warning him that no success was possible unless he enrolled in a prestigious Beaux-Arts school and took the Salon-approved road to acceptance."

"...What he did not add was Corot's disclaimer,"...if you have to submit to an academic discipline."

Like you Joan I was surprised that the older artists were willing to help the younger ones get started:

"Anton Melbye offered something more practical than technical advice. He had already granted Camille the use of his studio. Now he said:

"I don't know how you are fixed for money, Pissarro, but all of us are pinched when we start. When I first came to Paris I would have starved if a friend hadn't loaned me one hundred fifty francs. Now I have more commissions than I can handle. Why not paint in the skies for me? I'll pay you well."

The fact that another artist would "paint in the skies" surprised me.

Which brings us to an interesting question. Does one have to have God-given talent to become an artist or can it be taught or do you need a little of both to become a success.

I know for myself when I was a child we were all supposed to draw a picture for our mothers for Mother's Day. Everyone in my family admired my art but nobody could tell what it was - [a palm tree]. Needless to say my talent lay in another creative way. While my husband had no instruction what so ever. He would see something and paint it.

Jean,

You asked for a translation of bois. It means wood , forest.

Joan Grimes

I don't know. Maybe it's me. It seems like everybody is talking about something different, including myself. Are we on one track? Are we on the same track?

Scrawler, you are right about my mistake about Napoleon. Joan Grimes explained in another post the differences between the emperors.

I am impressed by the sensitivity with which Stone handles the development of the love affair between Julie and Camille. He manages to make it plain from the start that they didn't intend to fall in love, that this is a genuine lasting love, rather than a temporary lust.

I am also enjoying learning about the artists' community in nineteenth century Paris. I don't remember this kind of detail in 'Lust for Life.' Could it be that Van Gough was a loner, but Pissaro was a more social being?

HATS: I have a similar impression. It seems to me there is a discussion of art with links showing the wonderful paintings and there is a simultaneous discussion of the book. It is almost like there are many people in the room and more than one conversation but I go into each discussion for a bit. I do not pass judgment on that. As I see it this book has two themes -- art and biography.

Jean. ”Is he telling us that that was not an important part of Camille's life? Or not the MOST important part, just a piece of his life?” I have often felt that authors do this deliberately to make the story more mysterious and make the reader turn the page to find out what comes next.

We discussed Madame Bovary by Flaubert a few years ago on Seniornet. France was very prudish at that time in certain circles. Flaubert’s novel is not particularly sexually explicit, but it deals with the infidelities of the wife of a respectable doctor, a positive scandal.

Hats, “I don't know. Maybe it's me. It seems like everybody is talking about something different, including myself. Are we on one track? Are we on the same track?” We are definitely all on the same track. Is it because we talk about the paintings too that you are wondering if we are "on the same track"? I see Marjorie answered, thanks.

Joan P. Thank you for bringing the painting Hill at Pontoise here, I find that in your version, the whole painting is so different that the others. I see all shades of green and practically no other color and I keep wondering if our computers don’t all show the same colors and wondering which one is the closest to the original. For instance Joan Grimes said she saw a more orangy color for the road on the painting in the heading and the color I see here is definitely a pink with streaks of yellow, which makes me think that colors are transferred different from one computer to the next. It would be interesting to post one more painting and we could all comment on the color we see in a specific detail.

Juanita, right, I read the Van Gogh novel and The Agony and the Ecstasy by Irving Stone. Van Gogh was certainly a loner and perhaps was also mentally ill, according to Stone’s novel, whereas Camille Pissarro was very much a normal sociable man with normal expectations of life.

ELOISE: It would be interesting to find out how many different colors we all see looking at the same thing. I am certain that different computers show different colors. The monitors will display colors differently and the browsers will also show colors differently. I also realized today that two people see colors very differently. A friend and I were looking at the same color and my friend saw green and I only saw brown. She said "khaki green." I still couldn't see green.

P.S. I suppose the same hold true for how light/dark something is.

that's an interesting statement about colors, because when people were talking about "pink" in the road, i saw small bits of pink, but i would have said most of the road was in lavenders/purples, as well as browns,yellows and greens.......I like Hats tho't that making the woman's skirt a similar pink/lavender he draws your eye to her....jean

Marjorie, I understand your answer. Thank you.

I am familiar with the names of some artists. Other names are unknown. When Pissaro meets Monet, Monet mentions an artist named "Daubigny." Daubigny lived on a houseboat. Did he become very famous? Will we see some of his paintings? Daubigny painted the Seine and Oise. Were these rivers his motif?

I know Leonardo Da Vinci is not an Impressionist. I just have a few questions. Was the smile of Mona Lisa Da Vinci's "motif?" Also, the beautiful painting EmmaBarb showed of the lady with the parasol, was the parasol the motif? What are some of Pissarro's motifs?

Do artists change their motif from time to time or stick with the same one? Was it Monet who painted the Waterlillies hundreds of times? Are the Waterlillies his motif?

When Julie and Pissarro go out to eat together at a restaurant, one of the soups is mulligatawny. Would you someone describe this soup?

Joan Grimes ~ of course there's a link to the MOMA Cezanne/Pissarro exhibition in the heading...I wonder why I didn't see that

Gee I'm reminded of how I hated mending socks when I was in the orphanage in my younger days. They had to be just perfect or they'd give me a blister on my heel.

Scrawler -- Corot is one of my favorite artists...his paintings are impressionistic yet so delicate. I've not heard of Anton Melbye before. The fact he let Pissarro paint in the skies for him may explain to me why they are so different than the rest of his paintings. Artists often have students paint the more boring parts of their paintings...Reubens did quite often and then signed them as his own.

There's a book that may be a companion to this book "Letters of Lucien" (Camille's son) by Lucien Pissarro et al. Since I'm not yet able to find Depths of Glory I'm going to try to find this one. I won't give up though.

Edit: I just found some of Anton Melbye's painting of the sea on Google. Seascapes are one of my favorite motifs. I just love them and now will look for a bio.

JoanP, the soup looks soooo delicious. Thank you for the explanation and photo of Mulligatawny soup. I always take notes while reading for a discussion. I have seen the word "motif" maybe three times between Book I and Book IV. Sadly, I might not have written the passages down. I find the idea of "motifs" fascinating.

Hats,

Daubigny was a very famous painter. Here is a link to many of his paintings. Just click on the title of of the painting and then on th thumbnail of the painting to see the larger one.

http://www.the-athenaeum.org/art/detail.php?ID=21638

Motif Eloise has defined motif in one of her questions as " A motif is a dominant theme, an idea, or a pattern in a work of art". SI do not think Mona Lisa's smile is the motif of that painting nor do I think the parosol is the motif in Monet's painting that you mentioned. I think those things are devices used to achieve the motif. As for the water lilies, Monet did paint them over and over. He was experimenting with the effect of changing light on the water lilies.

Thank you for the link. I am slow. Would someone give examples of a motif in a painting or paintings?

Joan Grimes, I tried. The link didn't come up for me.

Hats,

I could not get it to work either . So I put in another link.

http://www.the-athenaeum.org/art/detail.php?ID=21638

Thank you. Sorry about that other one.

Joan P ,

We were posting at the same time.

You mentioned Stone's statement, "He (Pissarro) had to search for "motif". The forest taught him not to copy, but to develop a growing sense of selection, to rearrange the scene before him to achieve a more particular harmony." I have discussed this book and these ideas with my brother who is an artist. He explained to me that a place that an artist paints may not be recognizable to a person if the visit the place because the artist may change things around to achieve what he sees there. So I assume that is what Stone meant. So I think that a motif maybe a feeling that the the painting gives viewers, it may be something like the luminosity of a painting. I probably have not made this clear but I think each painting has a motif. I do not think the motif is the place that is being painted. I think that Stone said somewhere that Pissarro had to find his motif in each new place that he moved.( Don't have time this morning to hunt the reference in the book.)

Of course that is just my opinion on this. Come on people tell us what your opinion is on this.

This book is so involved and has so many interesting things presented to us for our exploration and discussion.

Joan Grimes

Scrawler, “Does one have to have God-given talent to become an artist or can it be taught or do you need a little of both to become a success.” I have often thought that in each person there is a God-given artistic bend. I can’t go into long details but my brother who worked as an accountant until his late fifties became quite a successful artist selling hundreds of paintings and when we were kids he did not demonstrate the least little bit of drawing or painting ability. To me it’s artistic intelligence that is inborn and even there artists still have to pursue art relentlessly to become immortal like the Impressionists became.

Mulligatawny Soup looks delicious Joan P. I might just try it one day. Thanks for the image. It is surprising what I learn in this discussion. I will never look at art in the same way after this.

Art was the populace history book before the 19th century when only the erudite could read and write. The Renaissance brought out aspects of history like nothing could do before. How would an illiterate person become aware of the beauty of nature, of women, of conquerors and heroes if artists had not painted them? From then on, art flourished and I guess because the Aristocrats and wealthy people commissioned works of art for their palaces, it encouraged artists to produce art in the hope it would sell. Talent at reproducing the High Society people and possibly political influence, induced a style of painting hard to dislodge while changing that style, like the Impressionists did, could not possibly have happened without the persistence and determination of artists.

I think the motif is whatever the artist sees as being the essence of his subject whether the subject is the forest,countryside, a river,the sea, a town. a still life,a portrait - whatever. It is something that is intrinsic to the subject and to the artist as well. He/she then tries to depict that motif or essence as only he sees it and in a way that has not been achieved before so that we as viewers become aware of something that is new and yet eternal.

I found the book slow to get into but once past the first two books I can hardly bear to put it down. It is so filled with France and the life of its people so much so that the country itself comes to life as a living breathing entity. I'm reading a library copy but will find my own - I have to have this book.

Gumtree,

I agree completely with your idea of the motif a painting. You put it so well. I also agree with you about the book. It is just a marvelous book and I keep recommending it to people.

Eloise, I aree with your statement, "To me it’s artistic intelligence that is inborn and even there artists still have to pursue art relentlessly to become immortal like the Impressionists became."

I was discussing the way we see colors and the way that the Impressionists saw colors. He explained to me that since they were painting light that they trained their eyes to see the colors of light reflected on things. He said and I have read that light has certain colors and if you know these colors then you can train your eye to see these colors in the reflections of light. This could be an explanation for each of us seeing the colors differently. Also we do know that each computer presents colors in a different way.

Joan Grimes

Book Two: "The Young See Visions": Chapter 6: "Within the week he started the self-portrait in oil. He drew cautiously, careful not to flatter or romanticize himself, creating a profile as reflected in the oblong glass over his bureau. He first indicated the long hair worn over his shirt collar, waving over his close-fitting ears; the slight side-of-face beard, the long, thin nose humped slightly just below eye level, veering at a mild angle to the right; then the full sensuous lips. But it was the depth of his brown eyes that dominated the face: wide-set, perceptive, looking out at the world a little skeptically, yet warm and friendly...

When he had finished he was not pleased with the portrait: it contained a touch of querulousness, a sideways gleam of wariness that he did not recognize. He had his hair trimmed shorter, then painted himself full face. It came out with a milder look, the eyes softer, more accepting an uncritical, unassuming study, without protest or challenge."

If I'm not mistaken this is the first time in the book that Stone describes Camille physically. What can we learn about the artist through this physical appearance?

What struck me were his description of his brown eyes: "But it was the depth of his brown eyes that dominated the face: wide-set, perceptive, looking out at the world a little skeptically, yet warm and friendly." You might say that it was Camille's eyes that painted the picture of the man himself. I see Camille as being a little skeptical of the world and yet a warm and friendly person who had a passion for painting.

I also thought it was interesting how Stone described the artist painting "cautiously, careful not to flatter or romanticize himself...". To me Impressionist paintings give me a feeling of not flattering or romanticizing their moltifs, but rather portraying them not necessarily in the harsh reality of life but the impression of what life could be.

There are lots of copies of this book at http://www.half.com (part of eBay, but immediate purchase rather than auction). They can be had in both paperback and hardback and from 75¢ on up for either, plus $3 or a little more for shipping.

A motif is a dominant theme, idea, or pattern in a work of art. It could be a spring motif, or a motif of shape, line, or color(s). For instance, you could say that Picasso's paintings from his blue period had a blue motif, and you could also say a painting has an abstract or surreal motif. Gaugin did many paintings with a south seas motif. Some artists use the same motif for many paintings (Thomas Kincaide and Gorman also come to mind) but no one is required to repeat a motif over and over. Some do; some don't, and most artists change their styles, subjects, motifs, and palettes over time. And yes, Monet's waterlilies had a waterlily motif, but they also had a light motif, a water motif, and several others. He studied waterlilies in much the same way that Van Gogh studied haystacks.

A motif in wallpaper is a certain design element that is repeated over and over.

In the painting in the heading, you can see how the color motifs unify the composition.

So motif is not something that is easy to classify or comprehend and the use of the word depends on what one is talking about and who is doing the talking.

this is how I think of Pissarro's paintings. is that considered a motif? cityscapes with specks f people and light the dominent subject. . or so it seems to me.

a street scene from above probably from his window.

claire

Several times the book mentioned that Camille Pissarro wanted to depict the light in the scene (or the way the light reflected in the scene).

I have been thinking about some of the images that seem to me to be very "dark" or have a lot of black rather than a lot of color. There could be a couple of things going on. Once could be that the darker the dark areas are the brighter the light ones will be. Another that came to mind today was his poverty. He didn't have much money so maybe he didn't by a wide variety of colors.

The picture in the heading certainly shows the light sky and the light reflected in the pond but the contrast is not as sharp as it is in the link CLAIRE provided.

as I recall had lots of contrast in his landscapes and was not an impressionist but was into nature. I wouldn't count on the net for good color. it could lead you to your library and their best art books though. the prints would be better than what we have here. . . claire

corot landscape is stronger heavier. I like it . . .claire

When the painting gets its title, I feel that is the motif for that particular painting. Sometimes these titles don't come about until they are put in an exhibit (mainly for ID purposes). Sometimes they're grouped as seascapes, landscapes, still life etc. One can start out saying they're going to paint a particular motif or subject and end up with something entirely different than they started. My computer painting takes on a life of its own and what's interesting to me is how it developes without my help.

Joan Grimes ~ thanks for the link to some of Daubigny's work.

Good morning. How is the book going?

Gumtree, I am glad that “you can’t bear to put it down” that’s the way I felt about it too. I like what you say here too: “only he sees it and in a way that has not been achieved before so that we as viewers become aware of something that is new and yet eternal.” Something that is new and yet eternal, that’s right, even if in Story of Civilization, Durant says nothing is ‘new’ because everything came from something in the past. The Impressionists then could have been ‘adjusting’ their style from old masters to give it new life, do you think?

Joan, I will try and see color in light, but as you say I have to train myself for that. Why do painters say that France’s light is what draws them there to paint? Isn't there ‘light’ everywhere? When I go to France I don’t see that light, except in the South of France where there is practically no pollution because of the Mediterranean sea wind pushing it north. Do you see that light when you go?

Thank you Zinnia for this complete explanation of the word motif. Then you can recognize a famous painter is by how he chooses his motif, do you think it is part of his personality then? A painter will habitually choose similar motifs in a way.

Yes Claire, Pissarro mentions this painting in the book, in fact he painted it several times in different lights.

Eloise,

I see a difference in the light in France in different places. I do not see colors in light. You say that you see it in the South of France because there is less pollution. I think that the pollution adds to the recognition of the light being different. The atmospheric quality is different as the light must travel through the pollution. I feel that if you concentrated on the reflections from the light you would see colors. Try looking at reflections in a river or creek.

I am not going to be around for a few days. I will be going to Asheville, NC to visit the famous Biltmore House. Going to see it all decorated for Christmas. I will be back in Alabama on Sunday night. Keep up the wonderful discussion of STone's wonderful book.

Joan Grimes

Here is COROT

There is a lot of difference between Corot and Pissarro it seems to me. Is it because Corot had not yet become an Impressionist painter, I wonder?

Young Pissarro finishing Julie's portrait in her room had taken the decision to call it an end, but... "One could easily fall in love with her, but this is all it is going to be. When this portrait is completed it will be the end." but it didn't end did it?

Thanks Joan and have a wonderful trip, come back all ready for Christmas.

Book Three: "I with trembling soar: Chapter 1:

"...He watched her come in and out of the room, her well-shaped head held high on a sturdy neck, her arms and slender but strong legs moving harmoniously as she brought in the tureen of soup, then a sweet and sour pike with raisins, lemon, gingersnaps. He was intererested not only in her graceful carriage but in the look of alertness on her face; she knew what she was doing and was enjoying the task. Her features had been cast in a skilled workman's mold.

A mass of fine chestnut hair under the white cap, combed forward on a smooth modeled forehead; deep green eyes which never lingered; a smallish nose with the tiniest uplift; full lips, red with the color of robust life; small regular teeth that showed when she faced an instant of perplexity; a moderately rounded chin that matched the curve of her brow, and a smooth skin with pink coloring.

"Not a beautiful girl," but an attractive one. She'd make an interesting character study,"..."

I have to wonder do all artists see other people as a prospective "character study"? I think Camille fell in love with the "model" of Julie before he fell in love with the person. Don't you think because of his background that he saw Julie at first as one of the "invisible" people in his life, but once he started painting her; she grew on him and he saw her for who she really was - a whole person. If Julie had not become pregnant, do you think Camille would have continued their relationship?

Pissarro in the early part of his life lived through the Crimean War. I think Florence Nightingale nursed the men during the Crimean War. Did Pissarro ever paint war scenes?

"...a crowd in front of a newspaper office reading the latest posted bulletins about the Crimean War, he stopped at a Swiss milk shop for a cup of hot chocolate and a patisserie. "

It is very hard to read Rachel's feelings about Julie. Rachel decides not to ever see her grandchild. I hope she will change her mind. It is also sad to read Rachel's feelings about Catholicism and the Jewish faith. Rachel does seem very, very stubborn. She has worked out her son's life in her mind. She can only see him with a girl from a prosperous Jewish family.

It is also sad to read about the life of a bonne in France during that time. It was so easy to lose a job if the maid found herself expecting a baby. Some women were driven to destroy their babies.

Scrawler, I think Pissarro would have loved Julie whether she became pregnant or not.

HATS: I agree with everything you posted about Rachael cutting herself off from Julie and how Camille feels about Julie.

Marjorie, I am glad.

Éloïse De Pelteau ~ thanks for the link to Carot. Some day I'd like to learn more about him.
Edit: I get not found on that link. I will try again.

Many students of art copy the Old Masters in Museums. One thing that happened in the Impressionist era was that the "formula for black gold(medium mixed with pigments)" was lost and they kept trying to reinvent it. This resulted in more pigment applied to an unprepared canvas and less transparency.

Disappointed after checking today -- my local library does not have this book

EmmaBarb, I am sorry you haven't gotten the book. I hope you will continue to make comments about painting and the Impressionist era. I learn a lot from your comments.

I am really enjoying the Impressionists. In the book, the Barbizon School is mentioned. Who were these artists? What did they paint?

Barbizon School art history. Carot was one of the leaders of the group. I would think this falls in the category of Old Realism. Someone correct me if I've wrong.

That's a very interesting article about the Barbizon School. I see some of the names, like Corot, Rousseau and others who are mentioned in Depths of Glory.

Scrawler, I don’t know if Julie had not been pregnant he would have continued with her. This usually depends on the perception some men have of women. There are men who respect a respectable girl, if he was brought up that way like Camille was, then, there are men who think women are all the same and go from one girl to another regardless. I have respect for a man like Camille who takes his responsibility at heart. Julie is the type of girl he wanted for a wife and I think must have been true to her all his life.

Hats, I don’t think Pissarro painted war scenes, but I haven’t seen all his paintings.

Yes, rather I think that a painter like P would see Julie, and other women too like good character subject for painting. Artists, I guess, having that very much in their mind all the time, like writers taking personal experiences to write about them in future novels.

EmmaBarb, I don’t know why you don’t get the link about Corot because I just tried it again and it worked for me. Sorry, but I don’t know about other artists in the Barbizon School, I will look it up though. Thanks for mentioning it.

Rachel said to Camille: ” You cannot marry a servant. No one marries a servant. Except other servants. You have your whole life before you. We will never consent. Never” That doesn’t augur well for the future rapport between the young painter and his pregnant wife, we will see.

Corot, Jean-Baptiste-Camille - 1796 - 1875
Daubigny, Charles-Francois - 1817 - 1878
Diaz de la Pena, Narcisse-Virgile - 1807 - 1876
Harpignies, Henri-Joseph - 1819 - 1916
Millet, Jean-Francois - 1814 - 1875
Rousseau, Theodore - 1812 - 1867
Spitzweg, Carl - 1808 - 1885
Troyon, Constant - 1810 - 1865
Corot, Jean-Baptiste-Camille - 1796 - 1875
Daubigny, Charles-Francois - 1817 - 1878
Diaz de la Pena, Narcisse-Virgile - 1807 - 1876
Harpignies, Henri-Joseph - 1819 - 1916
Millet, Jean-Francois - 1814 - 1875
Rousseau, Theodore - 1812 - 1867
Spitzweg, Carl - 1808 - 1885
Troyon, Constant - 1810 - 1865


THE BARBIZON SCHOOL PAINTERS

"Jean-Baptiste-Camille Corot: The art of Corot: Corot was the leading painter of the Barbizon school of France in the mid-nineteenth century. He is a pivotal figure in landscaping painting: His work simultaneously references the Neo-Classical tradition and anticipates the plein-air innovations of Impressionism. Of him Claude Monet exclaimed "There is only one master here -- Corot. We are nothing compared to him, nothing." His contributions to figure painting was hardly less important; Degas preferred his figures to his landscapes, and the classical figures of Picasso pay overt homage to Corot's influence.

In his final 10 years he became the "Pere (Father) Corot" of Parisian artistic circles, where he was regarded with personal affection, and acknowledged as one of the five or six greatest landscape painters the world has seen...

Corot approached his landscapes more traditionally than is usually believed...

In addition to the landscapes, of which he painted several hundred...Corot produced a number of prized figure pictures. These were mostly studio pieces, executed probably with a view to keep his hand in with severe drawing, rather than with the intention of producing pictures for the market place...

Corot learned little from his masters. He visited Italy on three occasions, and two of his Roman studies hang in the Louvre. A regular contributor to the Salon, in 1846 the French government decorated him with the cross of the Legion of Honour, and he was promoted to an officer in 1867. His many friends considered, nevertheless, that he was neglected, and in 1874, a short time before his death, they presented him with a gold metal. He died in Paris and was buried at Pere Lachaise." ~ Wikipedia

"Book One: Paris: Chapter 10: A couple of afternoons later he [Pissarro]went with Melbye to visit Corot's studio.

"He is the most loved painter in Paris because there is no harshness in him, no fierce competitive spirit, "Melbye told him. "Delacrox said about Ingres: 'He has always condsidered himself the world's greatest painter. In some limited ways, he is. But this overweaning conceit has led him to fantasy that he is the Emperor Napoleon of Art.' Corot could never say anything so abrasive."

It was said of Corot: "He needed nothing but nature, and he had her in his studies. He did not have to wander in search of his muse, for she was always with him in his neighborhood, in his pocket, where he was consult her whenever he chose."

Corot was sitting near the door, singing an aria from Ghick, a large meerschaum pipe, he called Pipette, in his mouth. He appeared short, even sitting down, but it was evident that inside his blue peasant blouse were a powerful chest and shoulders. On his head he wore a striped, tricolored cotton cap. His hair, turning white, fringed out of the cap like tufts of hoarfrost. His eyes were of a placid blue; slight lines angling from the middle of his short nose demarcated his cheeks.

For Pissarro it was no ordinary face, but one of the most unusal he had encountered: a mildness toward the outer world, and a stalwart inner force that kept him working at the only job he wanted."

It seemed to me that Corot did become more a father to Pissarro than his own did. Corot's father also wanted him to become a merchant the same as Pissarro's father wanted Pissarro to become as sucessful business man.

'love the discription of him sitting and singing.

My art history teacher agreed with Ingres, considering him the most Perfect of painters. there is a kind of abstract quality in hIs work especially the nude ODALISQUE WITH SLAVE which we saw in class. he linked it to Manets Picnic in the park which he considered to be LUDE expressing his admiration for the classic quality of it.

I'll look for it if anyone is interested. we go afield here but isn't it nice? I still don't have the book and do appreciate the occasional quotes.

claire

edit: here is Odalisque with slave but the color is so bad here . it's really very subtle.

HERE

While a nude painting in a traditional setting was acceptable by the critics and the population in general, one in a contemporary setting was not for the Salon des Refusés.

Luncheon on the Grass by Manet

Auguste RenoirMoulin de la Galette

How often we have looked at this painting and fell in love with it.

where the faces are clear it seems to be the same woman thru-out and also the same dark man. They are evidently generic figures for him even as there were in gothic times. It's a beauty though . . .works for me.

CHESTNUT TREES by PISSARRO

Notice how big the trees are, in the painting and the land beyond, beautiful painting.

is that tiny white thing on the right a person put in there for scale? I' most impressed by the composition strong verticals and a group of diagonals which merge us into the distance by changing angle slightly as they go. did Cezanne have an impact on him at this point. what year was it?

FREDERIC BAZILLE

His parents wanted him to become a doctor, he was from a wealthy family and if he agreed to read or study medicine at the same time, they supported him financially, and he helped his fellow impressionists often.

Claire, what I see at the bottom right is a man picking chestnuts. I don't know what you mean about putting it there for scale, the man is bent down while picking chestnuts. I don't know if Cezanne or any other had an impact on Pissarro, rather because he was one of the first impressionist painters to paint that way. I think Cézanne came after that.

I don't see the man but just a white speck, probably my eyes. but to make the tree large he would put in a small figure. Cizanne looked up to him and developed an impressioist palete because of their relationship pissarro began to be interested in structure of the page itself. all this about their relationship I got from pursuing your links and their links. interesting isn't it. Stone doesn't make aything of it I guess but he' seems to be into the story line,the romance etc. more than the art.

claire

the figure small to make the trees seem huge. there are a couple of tiny figures i the field as well hard to see but the right size for their placement. He seemed to use figures to emphasize the attributes of the landscape not the other way around.

stillife with several horizons

look at the table edge on the right and the flattened appearance on the left. . .my left and right not the paintings left and right.

claire

The man seems to be bowed over, searching for something. Maybe fallen chestnuts. Also, there are to very small figures at the near edge of the plowed field.

So many of Pissarro's paintings contain plowed fields, and roads that seem to actually be going somewhere. He seems to be very aware of people's lives going on in nature.

Juanita

CLAIRE: The book says in several places that Pissarro puts small figures in all his landscapes. I don't think it is just for scale. I think it is to humanize the landscapes and show the landscape as a real place where real people live and work.

ELOISE: Thank you for the links. I enjoyed them.

P.S. JUANITA: I just saw your post. I agree with you about Pissarro's use of figures.

he does people his world with figures. many landscape paintings by other artists don't have them so they must mean something to him.

Love the info about Carot and the links. I've wanted to know more about him but other artists seemed to have taken precedence with me.

Claire ~ I'd never seen that Odalisque with slave painting but have seen Manet's picnic in the park. Thank you for the link but it led me to Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres ? Edit: Oh ok, I see found the Odalisque with Slave by Ingres. Some lovely images of Odalisque: Ingres in Rome....French Visual Culture Course at Berkeley. Not sure what this has to do with Socrates.

Renoir is another one to enjoy.
Love Pissarro's trees don't you ?

Éloïse De Pelteau ~ I have a book devoted to Monet & Bazille..."Impressionism in Winter" I believe it's called.

Thank you Joan P, it's that those painters all encouraged each other. I don't know if they tutored lesser known painters, the book doesn't mention those and I tried to find a link for David Jacobson, but I didn't.

In the following link, we see "The Artist Studio" by Frederic Bazille, we see the vast space, a piano, a couch, a staircase, an easel. The artists were Manet, Monet discussing a painting with Bazille, Maître at the piano and Emile Zola, in the staircase discussing with Renoir. So we learn that the group was very close, Pissarro was less gregarious painting furiously.

L'atelier de Bazille rue de la Condamine

In the book at the beginning we read that Pissarro does paint nudes, but I haven't seen any yet. The painters met at the cafés and in galleries supporting each other's work.

Emmabarb, when I go to the municipal Library I love to browse in the art books and linger there. These paintings are a thrill to see.

I don't think Irving Stone was a collector, he might have been, but his novel is a litterary one where he tells a story putting the art in second place. I think it is wise because it's not easy to be an art critic.

Eloise, I love "The Artist Studio." It seems like so much is going on in this one painting. Is this type of painting considered more tedious to paint? Thank you for all the links.

has nudes on the wall. whose studio is it pissaro's? the paintings are large so they take a while with all the detail and finishing.

my own are over almost before I know it. Started a fairly large one last night, thought about how to go on with it while waiting for sleep, and in the morning light realized I should leave it alone. abstract expressionism can make a crowd when you're not looking and that's what's there.

This is a novel and as eloise says is using the art scene as a setting. For those who are reading it to LEARN more about art , followingt the links is really the way to go and a trip to the library's art book section with better reproduction as well. The author is more interested in the people's stories and the relationships as he sees them.

My own opinion about artists helping each other is that they do but now adays many are running workshops and getting paid for it not only for money but for exposure. No one is GIVING IT AWAY anymore except to friends.

But that's just my experience. I've learned from friends and taken workshops and classes. Friends will talk about their own approach without requiring that you do it only sharing in a generous moment. classes and workshops you do as you're told because your buying the artists time and expertise.. I've learned the most from those.

somehow friend's styles belongs to them and I wouldn't want to intrude. just my opinion though. . .

claire

"Paul Cezanne was a French artist, a Post-Impressionist painter whose work laid the foundations of the transition from the 19th century conception of artistic endeavour to a new and radically different world of art in the 20th century. Cezanne can be said to form the bridge between late 19th century Impressionism and the early 20th century's new line of artistic enquiry, Cubism. The line attributed both Matisse and Picasso that Cezanne"...is the father of us all..." cannot be easily dismissed.

Cezanne's work demonstrates a mastery of design, colour, composition and draftsmanship. His often repetive, sensitve and exploratory brushstrokes are highly charactistic and clearly recognisable. Using planes of colour and small brushstrokes that build up to form complex fields, at once both a direct expression of the sensations of the observing eye and an abstraction from observed nature, Cezanne's paintings convey instense study of his subjects, a searching gaze and a dogged struggle to deal with the complexity of human perception.

Pissarro lived in Pontoise. There and in Auvers, he and Cezanne painted landscapes together. For a long time afterwards, Cezanne described himself as Pissarro's pupil, referring to him as "God the Father" and saying, "We all stem from Pissarro." Under Pissarro's influence Cezanne began to abandon dark colours and his canvases grew much brighter." ~ Wikipedia

"When I judge art, I take my painting and put it next to a God-made object like a tree a flower. If it clashes, it is not art." ~ Cezanne

To me art is an interpretation of what the world is like or what the artist believes the world is like or should be. I agree with Cezanne, art should compliment a God-made object like a tree or a flower; not clash with it. Than again we must leave the interpretation up to the artist to decide what "clashes" and what does not.

We see this interpretation in Cezanne's work: "using planes of colour and small brushstrokes that build up to form complex fields, at once both a direct expression of the sensations of the observing eye and an abstraction from observed nature..." The combination of these gives us what the artist not only saw, but what he felt as well.

I think that cinnabar red is gorgeous. The red seems so deep. I tried to compare the cinnabar red with ruby red, don't know if that's possible. Ginny, now to learn of the rarity of cinnabar is very interesting. I would love to see a photo of the banker's house in Pompeii.

Scrawler, thank you for Cezanne's quote.

it is a beautiful color a soft red neither bluish or brownish. I wondered at the name because I was expecting something with a brownish tint. thank you. my monitor probably distorted it but it does show it as well as we can expect.

about Cezanne. Dr. With loved him but didn't like his draftsmanship. He was quite critical of it in THE CARDPLAERS. I like it though. this is much darker and reder than what I remember The placement of forms is something that Cezanne always does well. but I think this has been cropped.at least that is part of the code here.

the card players with pipes

I wonder is it going to be possible to preserve the cinnabar. I can see the streaks very clearly. Ginny, thank you for going to the trouble to find and share the photo.

Winsum, I like the bright red color.

Wow!

Ginny, thank you so much for bringing this link for us to enjoy.

Thanks Ginger for the Cinnabar rose, it is so lovely.

Éloïse De Pelteau ~ I love L'atelier de Bazille, rue de la Condamine - 1870. Looks like a typical picture studio in the City of Baltimore. I've seen Bazille sign some of his paintings just F.B.

Ginny ~ that is interesting about the "rare pigment" cinnabar. I've only ever seen red cinnabar. Alizarin crimson is pure ground cinnabar (one of my favorite oils). Are there cinnabar in any other colors ? I also love Lapis pigment as well as the jewelry made from it. Lapis has a history stretching back to 5000 BC.

Degas, like many artists, had failing eyesight as he got older and took up sculpture. I'd love to own one of his bronze sculptures of a young ballet dancers. I did not know Edgar Degas by any other name ?

I connect Degas with painting ballerinas. I would love to see one or more of Degas' sculptures. I do wonder what are the plans for preserving the rare cinnabar. Will future generations see the cinnabar?

Many years ago I tried to paint. I would love to try again. I remember the names of the colors. I remember Alizarin crimson. It is not a "flashy" red. It is a deep, deep red. By the way, a baby could draw and paint better than I could do it. First I used oils than I began to use acrylics. The acrylics if tried on the palette had a plastic feeling. I never tried watercolors.

degas_sculptures

Click them to enlarge

Your welcome Joan. There is also many horse sculptures on line, if you wish to see them I will get them for you or you can as they are beautiful. .

"...Degas helped to organize the first Impressionist Exhibition. The Impressionists subsequently held seven additional shows, the last in 1886, and Degas showed his work in all but one.

As the years passed, Degas became isolated, due, in part, to his belief "that a painter could have no personal life." He never married and spent the last years of his life, nearly blind "aimlessly wandering the streets of Paris before dying in 1917.

...He urged other artists to paint 'real life' instead of traditional mythological or historical paintings.

Art historian Charles Stuckey has pointed out that the viewpoint [of Degas's paintings] is that of a distracted spectator at a ballet, and that "it is Degas' fascination with the depiction of movement, including the movement of a spectator's eyes as during a random glance, that is properly speaking 'Impressionist'.

Degas made no important contributions to the style of the Impressionists; instead, his contributions involved the organization of their exhibitions. His work was considered controversial, and Degas was ridculed by many, including the critic Louis Leroy. However, towards the end of the Impressionist movement, Degas began to gain acceptance, and at the time of his death Deagas was considered an important artist." ~ Wikipedia

Book Eight: "These Fragile Moments": Chapter Three:

"Durand-Ruel was buying one picture a month from Camille, Monet and Sisley. When they were in Paris together Camille and Monet took Degas and Renoir into the Durand-Ruel galley, with several of their latest canvases. Durand-Ruel, who turned down a half dozen conventional painters a day, fell in love with Renoir's "The Pont Neuf", buying it for enough money to enable Renoir to rent the very first studio of his own, on the Rue St. Georges. From Degas, who had never sold anything, he purchased "The Orchestra of the Opera" and "The Banker." He told Camille:

"That was a fine thing you did, bringing in your two friends because you thought they were good enough for me to buy. It cuts down on the amount of money I have for your work and Monet's. Like Rousseau with Millet, it's an act of brotherhood. Another reason I believe your little group will not sink into the sea like thousands of painters in Paris today."

I think what Durend-Ruel said about Camille is really what saved the Impressionists. They were for the most part a brotherhood of artists who were willing to help each other. Other artists might have been jealous of each other, but these men and women not only helped each other as Camille did by giving advise to the younger artists, but helped each other find buyers for each other's paintings at the expense of making less money for themselves.

Hats I haven't been able to find a pure alizeron crimson for my acrylics. they offer something mixed with cadmium but we used that lovely transparent red to glaze like a water color wash a lot.

this is the online source of oils right now that I looked at. I'd like some that are water soluable. I hear they exist.

oil colors Daniel Smith I'd be painting a lot smaller than I have because they are really expensive. 16 by 20 an average size for portraits. might do a self portrait the way I am now.

actually titanium white, a black and about five colors are enough to start. I was looking for a red like the one we've been talking about here. cinnebar? didn't see anything that dense thugh.

back to the book. I really will get it. . .someday soon. . . Claire

The French revolution was not very far behind for this group of painters, aristocracy had just been ousted, but in the minds of the people, it had certainly not been completely wiped out. In France, class distinction is palpable still and it is better that one does not to try to seek the company of someone of a higher standing, it doesn’t work.

I feel that Pissarro was the cement that kept this group of high voltage painters together, because without each other’s support they could never have come through this mass rejection by the public and the press. Pissarro never got upset or angry even if his painting was criticized, even when his wife complained that he was was not making enough to support the family.

When Camille showed Julie the painting L’herminage at Pontoise, Julie wanted it for herself , “she picked up the picture, prepared to take it into the bedroom. Camille shook his head in amazement” because she was so discouraged about the lack of money, he said: “Ventre affamé n’a pas d’oreille’ (a hungry stomach has no ears) but it has eyes”. How beautifully put that is. Hungry people don’t listen to reason, they just holler, but still have eyes for beauty. This one is hanging in the Guggenheim Museum.

THE HERMITAGE AT PONTOISE click to enlarge

ELOISE: Thank you for posting the link to the painting The Hermitage at Pontoise." I can see why Julie would have wanted it in her bedroom. It is a very pleasing painting (to me at least). It had me thinking again about something I posted before -- the difference in color/quality of the sky and the rest of the picture. Then I looked out the window. It is a grey day because it has been rainy and there is little definition in the sky. The sky is mostly clouds. I think I would like to see and live with such a blue sky.

I was looking at the questions in the heading and don't know if people still copy paintings in museums. My guess is they do. You asked if Pissarro was right not to copy. He felt strongly about developing his own style and for him it was the right thing. He needed to draw/paint outside and to draw/paint what "he" was seeing. He certainly worked hard.

Eloise, thank you for the link to The Hermitage at Pontoise. It's very, very beautiful. Ginger, thank you for the Degas' sculptures. I like the Dancer at fourteen the best of all. JoanP, thank you for explaining the size of the scultures. I bet it's more difficult to sculpt a small piece rather than a big piece of sculpture. I am just guessing. Winsum I can tell you know a lot about art. I enjoy your posts. Scrawler, I especially like one statement you made in your post. If I may, this is your quote.

"I feel that Pissarro was the cement that kept this group of high voltage painters together, because without each other’s support they could never have come through this mass rejection by the public and the press. "

Marjorie, your post is very descriptive. I must go back and look at the Hermitage at Pontoise again. The sky is a very beautiful blue. The blue seems to reach down to the curving gold road making the whole village seem at peace. I see maybe two people lying back on the grass just enjoying their day. I love the winding road. To me, the road seems to wind downward from a hill.

I think artists observe skies and clouds closely. How many ways do skies and clouds change? I don't know. I do know the atmosphere, with our willingness, can manipulate our emotions.

For awhile I would always check how to paint books from the library. There are books written just on one subject: books about how to paint trees, how to paint clouds, how to paint the sky, how to paint water.

“is there an artistic temperament?” JoanP, among the artists I know who live for art, one has a volatile temperament meaning she flares up at the most unexpected moment. One has lived his entirely life mad at the world and would like to live alone in the woods far from civilization, but can’t afford it. They don’t mind being poor, abhor the rat race and live life intensely constantly in a highly emotional state. According to Irving Stone, there is not one who seems to be happy.

Me too Marjorie, I think Pissarro was right in not copying in the Louvre, it would take the time away from painting his own. Perhaps that is why he did not socialize as much as his painter friends.

Hats, me too, I like watching ‘how to paint’ programs on television. It is amazing how fast they arrive at painting a landscape with just a few brush strokes, but I wouldn’t call their art exceptional though.

I didn't know the origin of that expression, but apparently it comes from a painting by Whistler who was one mentioned in the book.

At the Piano

In this section Napoleon III will have another another Exposition Universelle in 1867 and our little group was hoping to have one or more paintings accepted. Whistler's "At the Piano: was selected because" the jury wanted the visitors to see France as sober, solid and respectable; believed that if the Salon exhibited any of its wild men the foreigners would think France had become unreliable, night even refuse to buy the new machinery being shown in the Palais de l'Industrie." Hilarious isn't it?

Eloise, I remember reading about Whistler in Irving Stone's book. Didn't he describe him as sort of eccentric? I will try to find the pages. Thank you for the link to At the Piano. It's odd I always hear Whistler connected with Whistler's Mother. Is this his most famous painting? Why? I don't really care for Whistler's Mother.

I really love Symphony in White and At the Piano.

I love how Irving Stone describes James Whistler. Here is the quote from the book. Eloise, I think this is "hilarious" too.

"Whistler was mischievous, droll, recognized in Paris by his two extremities; an enormous floppy straw hat covering a mass of black curls; and thin-soled ballet dancer's slippers...trying to live la vie de boheme to entertain himself and the world about him, all of which he considered his stage."

Claude Monet said that Whistler oozed "talent."

I was surprised by Whistler's series Nocturne. They could be painted by modern artists in my mind.

it could be the monitor or the computer which is new or the isp but all the colors I see are primary plus black white and green. that's ALL. so much for pursuing links to paintings. they do show the composition but that's about all.

Yes hats. art is my lifelong practice. I take it seriously and have a huge body of work stored. So who sells art when they don't have to. It's another enterprise entirely and not usually something I enjoy. As for the artistic personality. I was called a CREATIVE EXPLOSION by my very kind mentor but otherwise am a very ordinary person in pursuing my life.'wish it were more interesting.

whistler's mother is I think a kind of joke since I read that he didn't like her very much and used this very static arrangement by way of commenting. It was somewhere in the links I was chasing a while back.

shoot. my monitor is very untrustworthy these days. when I put everything to sleep it wants to sty there. have to turn it on and off to get it started again, so I may disappear for a bit if it becomes crucial. THEN maybe I'll get the book and READ.

Claire

Ginger wright ~ I'd not seen those Degas sculptures "the bath" before. The one I would love to own is a young ballet dancer (not shown there). I also love his horse sculptures.

Joan Pearson ~ that's interesting Degas changed his name from de Gas. If it had been me I think I'd have changed my first name

I don't think I'd have liked having one of my paintings stamped with an "R" for refused by the Salon.

Mercy I just opened my acrylic paint box and the cover is full of dust. I have cadmium red, cadmium orange and cadmium yellow light in my box. Also nathol itr crimson and nathol itr red light. The alizarium crimson is one of my oils.

Claire ~ thanks for that Daniel Smith website link. It's been sooooo long since I've purchased any paint tubes I didn't realize how expensive they are now. There's one used book store I haven't checked out yet...maybe I'll find the book there.

Éloïse De Pelteau ~ thank you for the link to Pissarro's "The Hermitage at Pontoise". The large view is very impressive, I prefer the Realist style.
The one I'm more familiar with is "Whistler's Mother". "At the Piano" is only faint in my memory (probably in one of my art books). Isn't the young girl in white sweet looking ?

By the way, when I mentioned the way Whistler dressed, I in no way meant the word "hilarious" in a poke fun attitude. To me Whistler's garments described in the book, I think, show his creative rebellion, in other words, I have the right to be me whether today, tomorrow or yesterday. I think artists are brave people. Some people wish for a way of life, others take risks and enjoy their life.

It must have taken a lot of courage for the Impressionists to go against the status quo of art. Without their willingness to stand by their choices of how to use light, etc. we wouldn't have the beautiful paintings. EmmaBarb, I think the "R" must have been very hard to swallow without throwing in the brush. These artists had determination born out of love for Art.

It is interesting to learn that Napoleon III opened another Salon for those artist's paintings which had been refused by the jurors. Pissarro was very happy about Napoleon's intervention in the artists affairs. Without Napoleon III's interest in art, what would have happened to the rejected artists?

"The emperor had issued a royal decree in their favor. They would be shown, they would be reviewed in the press."

Book Five: "Children of Fleeting Time": Chapter 1:

"Camille had decided that David Jacobsen must be a prototype of Shakespeare's melancholy Dane. His work was good; he was self-disciplined; he completed every painting. To no purpose. Allegorical and historical paintings done with a Danish accent might have sold if he had remained in Denmark where he had family and friends... Camille was able to steer him toward more modern themes. Jacobsen completed two paintings, one of an old man with flowing white hair under a high black hat, sitting on the stone parapet of the Pont Royal, a white begging placard around his neck. The second was of a black and white cat lapping milk from a bowl. Camille thought them sensitively realized...

...Camille did not realize the extent of the man's despair, since few of their young friends sold anything, had exhibitions or backers, until David left a letter to his brother Edvard on their eating table:

"...This winter the draft has made me ill several times during the night. I have not had more to cover me in winter than in summer. As you know I do not want debt...I work, but am stopped by need. Oh, I am almost tired of everything. To have to write you like this. But on the other hand it was almost a promise that you would do a little so I could pass the four months Oct., Nov., Dec., and January without worry. Maybe I would have sold 1-2 pieces here if I had had gold frames...But without frames nothing can be shown. To suffer like this..."

David's letter almost feels melodramatic in a way. I think David is a good example of an artist who continues to paint in spite of his misery and bad health. Does his melancholy come out in his paintings?

I think an artist's emotions flows through his/her paintings in much the same way that a writer's emotions come out in his/her writings. Are artists unhappy? David appears to be on the brink of starving and yet for all his problems he continues to paint. Does painting make him unhappy? I don't think so, but I think living in the real world does.

MAYBE in three hundred years. the stoneware will probably survive but we never know if paintings on paper will make it. will acrylic hold iup as well as the old oil paintings did? So if I make art for anyone atall it will be for posterity. That's why we try to use good ingredients that will last. vbg

Claire

They are perhaps less conventional because they have more choices but one of them is certainly to fit into whatever community supports them.

I cringe a little over stereotypes, too close to racial generalizations. People have much in common but it's amazing how individualistic they actually are. All these assumptions concerning the personality types make me uncomfortable although I indulge also having criticized military TYPES as being willing to resort to violence and being control freaks. With artistic types it's just FREAKS. not nice at all is it.

claire

I understand that you can learn a lot by doing it but it is BORING to me. I'd rather make my own stuff. Claire

I think "all" painters are inspired some when working side by side, be it studio or out-of-doors or wherever. I know when I was in class I was painting with others around and when at home I seemed to have other things to take care of with more priority. There was noone in class I wanted to copy from but there were a couple that tried copying from me. I don't think you can actually keep someone from copying from you in a class environment. Don't know when it's a studio/salon group.
I have found jurors often have their favorite artists when selecting paintings in an exhibit. Even in exhibit or sale-fairs those favorites get the best spots for their paintings.

Louis Napoleon III

Louis was the nephew of Napoleon Bonaparte whom he clearly modeled himself after… It is easy to confuse the two of them, but he did succeed in ruling France for a short while, never achieving the status of his glorious uncle.

He undertook the industrial modernization of France and proved himself to be a true benefactor in this regard…Louis was born the last of three sons of Louis and Hortense Bonaparte, king and queen of Holland during the regime of his uncle Napoleon I. Napoleon I had given kingdoms to several of his siblings.

His downfall was the area of diplomacy--which began to fail him beginning in the late 1850s. The grand catastrope came when he was seduced by the Prussian Chancellor Bismarck into going to war with Germany over their mutual borderlands (1870)--and had himself and his army captured by the enemy. The Paris political crowd at home quickly deposed him. The next year he was released from German captivity and made his way to England where he died two years later. As ruler over the Second Empire he began to push a vision of rapid industrial and urban development in France--to make it the military equal of Britain to the West and fast-rising Prussia to the East. He pushed for the development of a national network of trains needed to unite the country commercially. He redesigned the banking system to facilitate capital development of the nation's economy. He redesigned much of Paris (with a number of new boulevards, squares, parks, bridges) in an effort to make it the most attractive capital city in Europe. (underlining is mine) This is where he encouraged the arts and even ordered to have another Salon for the Refusés whom he considered as good as those who were accepted at the Official Salon.

I believe it's important to note the political context in relation to the arts. During a war, everybody is involved in either their defence and safety or in fighting the war, but in times of peace such as after the Napoleonic wars, people turned to more peaceful activity and the arts flourishes, but the economy had not yet caught up and people were still in dire needs. Napoleon III, Louis Napoleon beautified Paris, encouraged industry and the arts and was influencial in putting France again on the cultural and economic map of Europe.

LOUIS NAPOLEON III

JoanP, I am reading the article about Poussin. It's very interesting. I will need to read the article more than one time. The article is full of good material. Eloise, thank you for the material about Napoleon III. I wanted to know more about him.

So far, there are two women mentioned in Depths of Glory. One is an artist, Berthe Morisot. The other is the Queen of French Ballet, Emma Livry. I would love to know more about these two people.

Irving Stone must have loved France. It's impossible not to appreciate the beauty of the countryside, the talented writers, artists, dancers, etc. I know it's impossible for us to touch on all the wonders of France in such a short time. At least, in the process of reading the book with all of you I have come to appreciate a country and its art. Baudelaire and Emile Zola are also mentioned.

JoanP, I don't know much about being an artist. Like you I don't see any harm in beginning as a copyist. I think the hands will ultimately begin to separate from copying and take on their own style.

This place really interests me. Here is the quote from the book.

"Camille saw that at every one of the frequent crossroads there was a life-sized wooden Christ crucified, with an abundance of red paint beneath the nail wounds. The tall figures dominated the area....Camille had never seen so many "Agonies of Christ" gathered in so compact an area."

Does Montfoucault look the same today? What does Montfoucault mean in French?

Claire, I see the same as you about primary colors, on my computer, with some links the paintings are ALL green and black, hardly any other color at all for me. Perhaps it’s the ISP that does it, those paintings could never be so dull. I will look into it to see what is wrong here.

Joan P, “I wonder how true Stone is painting him. He doesn't seem to be really down ever –“ yes, isn’t that true? In his other biographical novels, he describes artists most often in a positive way. In your link the Poussin painting is almost entirely brown, black, blue sky. Impossible that this is the color of the original painting. I will search for another one to see if I can get better colors. Thanks for bringing it in for us.

Hats, Montfoucault has no meaning as such, it’s just a name. Mont in French is mountain. Beaudelaire and Zola are among the greatest in French literature.

Montfoucault

I suppose Montfoucault is named after Piette's estate. I don't know. I do know mont means mountain. Due to a bad memory, I don't mention it. However, I did take two years of French in high school. Then, two years more in college. I went back to school as an old lady and received my degree. I also did take one year of Art History.

Due to my poor memory, I don't like to discuss my past and late education. I love to come to any discussion as a beginner, looking at what I am learning with a clean slate. Then, knowledge doesn't become hackneyed.

"Mary Stevson Cassat was an American painter. She lived much of her adult life in France, where she befriended Edgar Degas and exhibited with the Impressionists. Cassatt (pronounced ca-SAHT) specialized in painting the social and private lives of women, with particular emphasis on the intimate bonds between mothers and children.

By 1872, after studing independently in the major European museums, her style matured, and in Paris she studied with Camille Pissarro.

The jury accepted her first painting for the Paris Salon in 1872. The Salon critics claimed that her colors were too bright and that her portraits were too accurate to be flattering subjects.

Upon seeing pastels by Edgar Degas in an art dealer's window, though, she knew she was not alone in her rebellion against the Salon. "I used to go and flatten my nose against that window and absorb all I could of his art," she wrote a friend. "It changed my life. I saw art then as I wanted to see it." She met Degas in 1874, and he invited her to exibit with the Impressionists and her work hung in the 1879 Impressionist show. As active member of the Impressionist circle until 1886, she remained friends with Degas and Berthe Morisot. Like Degas, Cassatt became extremely proficient in the use of pastel, eventually painting many of her most important works in this medium.

The 1890s were Cassatt's busiest and most creative time. She also became a role model for young American artists who sought her advice. Among them was Lucy A. Bacon, whom Cassatt intorduced to Camille Pissarro.

She took up the cause of women's suffrage, and in 1915, she showed 18 works in an exhibition supporting the movement.

She died on June 14, 1926. As of 2005, her paintings had sold for as much as $2.8 million." ~ Wikipedia

Book Five: "Children of Fleeting Time": Chapter 7:

"Napoleon III arrived at the Salon in his gold carriage with the four matched bays. Comte de Nieuwerkerke had been ordered to have his assistant set up the rejected convases still at the Salon so that the Emperor could view them from his comfortable throne chair brought in for the purpose. Baudeclaire secured an accurate acount of the proceedings from a Beaux-Arts workman. The Emperor spent two hours reviewing the rejects, then, after a luncheon in an apartment in the Louvre, returned to study the accepted canvases on the walls. Bauldeclaire reported the conversation between Napoleon III and Comte de Nieuwerkerke, his longtime friend and one of his favorites, in part because he was the adored lover of one of Napoleon III's cousins.

"Monsieur le Comte, the paintings that have been refused are as good as the ones that were accepted."

"Not in the opinion of the jury, Your Majesty."

"The jury be damned! They're as full of prejudices as a stray dog is of fleas."

"Doubtless so, Your Majesty. But they were chosen by the Academie as our offical body to decide the fate..."

"Nonsense! There must be something you can do. Why else have I appointed you Superintendent of Fine Arts?"

"Your Majesty, forgive me, but there is no room in the Beau-Arts for all these rejected ones."

"Then hang them somewhere else. I'm not going to have a revolution on my hands because a few hundred paitners have been cast aside."

The Comte de Nieuwerkerke, a polished politician, knew when it was time to retreat..."

Do you think Napoleon III helped the Impressionists group or do you think he did more harm to them by giving them special treatment?

As far as stero-typing is concerned I believe that creative people have a special passion for what they do and their emotion flows forth when they are creating. This might seem "stero-type cast" to some people, but I think it isn't as simple as that. We all have mood swings, some more than others, but creative people seem to have more than most and from this is where their creativness flows from. I know for myself I'm happiest when I am writing and my husband was happiest when he was painting. And if I'm not careful the real world seems to slip a

Ted Gillian was my most influential technical artist. I first saw his work on an album cover and my neighbor was studying with him at a workshop. I really couldn't afford it but I went for six weeks and it changed my life. I FINALLY learned how to use oil paint properly without making mud. We used glazes to unify the color and that made all the difference. one of our exercises was to make up all the light areas with pastel triangles, small ones. essentially an impressionist tool. they simply glowed. it didn't work well in the dark areas though which may be why the impressionist's painting were for the most part mid to light, never dark and dramatic.

the system worked more formally for the pointelist Seurat in his large Sunday at the park painting. )_spelling?

as for mood swings and work. . I'm high when it's going well working fast, all but driven but it only lasts an hour or so and provides energy more than an actual feeling of happiness. I just go with it until I have to stop. it is exhausting these days when I'm not so energetic. But in general I don't have the kind of mood swings that bi-polar person would.

claire

Hi Everyone,

I am back and am trying to catch up on your posts.

Copying: Copying was indeed the accepted way of studying painting. I was considered necessary as someone here mentioned.

Was Pissaro ever down?: If he had let himself get down or depressed he would not have been able to produce so many wonderful paintings. He was driven to produce and to improve his painting.

Manet's Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe , Luncheon on the Grass,: The people laughed at this painting when they saw it. They were not offended by seeing nudes in paintings as they were used to seeing classical nudes. However they did not like seeing women who were presented as real women without perfect figures. They wanted classical lines like Ingres painted. The men were pesented in ordinary clothes that would be seen anywehere. Manet was painting things as he saw them, as they really were not idealized classical figures. That was what shocked the people. So they made fun of what they saw and giggled about it. Link to inofrmation and the painting Click on the thumbnail to see the larger version of the painting.

These painters were rebelling against theold styles of painting. Pissarro as well as the others had a cause for which he was fighting a s did the other impressionists. Pissarro was more committed to this cause than most of the others were.

In my opinion Stone has presented him well.

Joan Grimes

From another site I found the same painting JoanP posted, The Funeral at ....

This one is so different and as Claire said, the computer doesn't give us the original colors and we have to imagine what it would be like.

ELOISE: Thank you for that link. The colors are definitely better.

I find Luncheon in the Grass interesting because the women are nude or in filmy garments while the men are fully clothed. Are these supposed to be artists and their model(s)? In other images of artists and their studios most are dressed as these men are dressed.

If you're going to copy (as a student or whatever) you should copy from the best...if you don't you're just copying their mistakes...the Old Masters were considered the best.
I only ever copied two still lifes. While walking around an old art museum in Munich, Germany a number of years ago I was so excited to see one of the paintings I copied hanging there big as life. It brought me to tears.
Also on that trip I saw some people copying paintings and I watched for awhile. I was told it required a special permit for you to copy one of the museum paintings.

Eloise, thank you for the link to The Funeral.." Without the "special permit," I bet a person would have to pay a very big fine.

At the Art Museum where I am a docent we often see art students copying paintings. They come with their teacher. She gets a permit for her students to come and they must come at an appointed time so that they will not interfere with scheduled tours of the galleries where they are copying works of art. They usually come when we have a special exhibition of great painters. The last time that I saw them there was last Spring when we had a visiting exhibition of wonderrul French drawings from the Baltimore Museum of Art. They were there several days copying the drawings of artists like Ingres, Millet, Pissarro, Manet, Cassatt and many others that are mentioned in this book we are discussing.

Marjorie, I have read that people were shocked by the way that the men were dressed in Luncheon on the Grass because it was ordinary everyday dress and that was part of the reason for laughing at the painting when it was shown at the Salon des Refusés.

Joan Grimes

"Edouard Manet was a French painter. His early masterworks "The Luncheon on the Grass" and "Olympia" engendered great controversy, and served as rallying points from the young painters who would create Impressionism -- today they are considered watershed paintings which mark the genesis of modern art. One of the first 19th century artists to approach modern-life subjects, his art bridged the gap between Realism and Impressionism.

One of Manet's early major pieces is "The Luncheon on the Grass" (Le dejeunner sur l'herbe). The Paris Salon rejected it for exhibition in 1863 but he exhibited it at the Salon des Refuses (Salon of the rejected) later in the year. (Emperor Napoleon III initiated The Salon des Refuses, after the Paris Salon rejected more than 4,000 paintings in 1863.) The painting's juxtaposition of dressed men and a nude woman was controversial, as was its abbreviated, sketch-like handling - an innovation that distinguished Manet from Courbet. However, Manet's composition is derived from Marcantonio Raimondi's engraving "The Judgment of Paris" (c.1510) after a drawing by Raphael.

As he had in the Luncheon on the Grass, Manet again paraphrased a respected work of a Renaissance artist in the painting "Olympia" (1863), a nude portrayed in a style reminiscent of early studio photographs, but whose pose was based on Titian's "Venus of Urbino" (1538). The painting was controversial partly because the nude is wearing some small items of clothing such as an orchid in her hair, a bracelet, a ribbon around her neck, and mule slippers, all of which accentuated her nakedness. This modern Venus' body is thin, counter to prevailing standards; thin women were not considered attractive at the time, and the painting's lack of idealism rankled. A fully dressed servant is featured, exploiting the same jutaposition as in Luncheon on the Grass. The black cat at the foot of the bed strikes a rebellious note. Manet's uniquely frank (and largely unpopular) depiction of a self-assured prositute was rejected by the Paris Salon of 1863. At the same time, his notoriety translated to popularity in the French avant-garde community." ~ Wikipedia

Book Five: "Children of Fleeting Time": Chapter 3:

"In the glow of the cafe's oil lamps, Camille saw that Edouard Manet was a man of broad shoulders, yet flatly lean throughout his superb figure, and wore near white trousers trimly buttoned about his lean waist. He had what was called a Gallic head, an open and expressive face. His lustrous almost black hair was beginning to recede on both sides of the part: his soft beard and mustache were handsomely groomed. He was exuberant of nature, using many gestures to amplify his speech. For his social life among the elegants he wore a lavishly cut long black coat but, as a sign of independence, a brightly checkered vest; and eschewed the traditional bow tie for a long necktie of a rich fabric.

To Camille he was the most attractive man in the Guerbois, bold, self-assured, upper class, with penetrating eyes that proclaimed, "I know who I am and who I intend to become." There were no uncertainities, anxieties, repressions. He seemed warm and friendly, did not judge one's abilities yet favored the few who he thought were exceptional. Whether it was their youth, sense of fraternity, or the fact that as artists they were removed from the mainstream of society, they seemed grateful to find a common ground, readily talking about themselves..."

To me the artists that painted prior to the Impressionsts group glorified the historical and religious subjects they painted in much the same way that Sir Walter Scott glorifed war in his writings.

The Impressionists painted what they saw rather than glorifying their subjects and at the same time they reminded their audience of the reality around them. So is it any wonder that the general public rejected such reality. Do people really want to be reminded of the poor and the prositutes? Note how Manet puts ordinary people such as the servant in "Olympia" with the nude prositute or the waitress drinking her beer behind an eleganty dressed couple in "The Cafe Concert", 1878.

One of the most interesting aspects of Manet's paintings was that he deplicted people at leisure. His subjects were lunching on the grass, reclining on sofas, listening to music, enjoying racing, or simply seated at a restaurant sipping a glass of beer. If you look closely there seems to be a sense that the subjects of his paintings are looking outside the frame of the canvas as if their life continued on past the pose of the picture. I suspect that all this Realism was too new for the people of Paris at the time these paintings were exhibited.

Louis Napoleon seized absolute power in a coup d"etat in Dec 1851 and declared himself Emperor Napoleon 111 in Dec 1852. England staged the Great Exhibition in 1851 and Nap wanted to establish France"s cultural and industrial superiority by mounting a Universal Exhibition in Paris in 1855, The main art awards went to two history painters, Ingres and Delacroix, but also included two painters of scenes of everyday life - Meissonier and Decamps.

Hi - sorry I haven't been posting - 'things' have intervened and now (tomorrow) I'm off on holiday for the rest of the month and really should be packing right now!

This book is wonderful for the insight it gives into Pisarro's life and so many of his contemporaries as well. For me, Irving Stone has brought Pisarro to life as a living breathing man and with such a determination to follow his dream. I find Julie is less well realised but nonetheless she balanced his life in many ways.

As for copying the great artists - yes and no - one learns so much about their art but inevitably one must find one's own way. It is also possible to copy the mistakes - errors in perspective are a bugbear and sometimes appear in the most unexpected artists canvases!

I must go - but will look in if I can over the next few weeks - back in January....

France went through the Franco-Prussian war over the Alsace Lorraine Territory that kept being shifted from one country to the next. Germany occupied Paris and the Pissarro family had to leave for England. There he painted the famous London Crystal Palace too bad that photography was in its infancy because it must have been quite a monument.

”Both Camille and Claude Monet were rejected by the Royal Academy; of the French artists the English liked only Gérôme and Rosa Bonheur. Corot and the Fontainebleau School did not yet exist for them. English painters were unsympathetic; the art market was small.” Whisler and Sisley were unreachable to help the expatriate painters.

Julie was understandably unhappy in a country where she didn’t speak the language and she became unconsolably homesick until some of their painter friends rejoined them in England. Their house in France had been used as a stable during the war. Oh! Dear. Fortunately the precious paintings were preserved. Someone predicted that this war of 1870-71 was the precurser of a bigger war that would involve the whole world. How true that turned out to be with the war of 1914-1918 and another war in 1939-45. No wonder the French are very protective of their territory.

At last the Pissarros were married. His family was invited but didn’t come.

JEAN LEON GEROME

ROSA BONHEUR

Exactly Joan P. Napoleon III was not Napoleon I but he did completely overhaul the “downtown” of Paris and in a way and in my opinion, immortalized the city. He certainly took chances like his famous uncle, but it’s only by taking chances that civilization can move forward, I think. Among the risks he took, opening a Salon des Refusés changed the way people looked at art forever and today we are grateful he did. Oh! Sure, eventually the genre would have come through, but it would have taken a lot more time.

Wainey, welcome to our group, are you reading the book too? Thank you for telling us about Meisonier and Decamps, two painters I don’t know about but I will look them up.

Joan G. How interesting it must be to work as a docent in an Art Museum, that’s one thing I would have loved to do.

Theodore Duret, another one I don’t know, told Camille in 1872 ”Pissarro, there is something of godlike tranquility in your paintings. No matter how distressed I may be, when I gaze at your beautifully attuned Fair at St. Martin or Road across the field I feel a sense of peace. I maintain that rustic nature with animals is what suits your talent best.”

Isn’t that what Pissarro’s paintings are all like, his tranquil nature comes out in everyone of his paintings. That is an inborn quality, not something he tried to achieve. A lot can be said about what genre of art moves you, this is where the difference is in one’s character and personality.

"...It attracted many thousands of visitors from all levels of society. The name "Crystal Palace" was coined by the satirical magazine Punch.

The Crystal Palace of London became the prototype for several other buildings including but not limited to the New York Crystal Palace and the Glaspalast in Munich.

Original Hyde Park building: The huge glass and iron structure at the top of Sydenham Hill was originally erected in Hyde Park in London to house The Great Exhibition.

The Crystal Palace was built by about 5,000 navvies who worked very hard for very little and completed their tasks quickly. Their welfare became the concern of Catherine Marsh, who noticed the poor conditions they were working in and treatment they received: she spared no effort to see that they received fair and just treatment. She made sure that meals were provided for them.

Attractions: The exhibits included just about every marvel of the Victorian Age, encompassing the products of many countries throughout the world. There was pottery and porcelain; ironwork and furniture, steam hammers and hydraulic presses; perfumes and pianos; houses and diving suits; firearms and barometers; fabrics and fireworks - and much more including a walking stick containing an enema.

Queen Victoria loved the place and said she found it 'enchanting'. This was to some extent due to the degree of esteem in which she held the ultimate architect of its fortunes, her beloved husband, Prince Albert.

Decline: The mass of people who would gladly visit the Palace were unable to do so because the only day on which they could get away from work was Sunday, and Sunday was the day on which the Palace was firmly closed. No amount of protest had any effect: the Lord's Day Observance Society held that people should not be encouraged to work at the Palace or drive transport on Sunday, and if people wanted to visit then their employers should give them time off during the working week. This, naturally, they would not do.

Destruction by fire: On 30 November 1936 came the final catastrope. Within hours, fire consumed all that stood for a mighty empire and boundless imagination. The Palace was destroyed, the fire was seen for miles and thousands of people saw the night sky light up by the flames.

Winston Churchill on his way home from the House of Commons said: "This is the end of an age". ~ Wikipedia

Book Seven: Cape of Tempests: Chapter 5:

"The Paris journals of the early months of 1870 had been filled with the question of an impending war with Prussia. The problem had arisen in 1861 when the French sided with Poland in its demand for national identity. Bismark of Prussia sided with the Tsar of Russia, crushing the Poles and diminishing French prestige. Prussia and Austria then invaded the Danish provinces of Schlewig and Holstein and, in 1866, Prussia subdued the Austrians, becoming the dominant force in Europe. Napoleon III asked Bismark to cede to France the left bank of the Rhine. This was considered an act of aggression against Prussia. France became isolated. When in 1870 Bismark attempted to install a distant cousin of the Prussian royal family on the Spanish throne, the French were outraged. They declared war on Prussia on July 19, 1870, confident that their army would be victorious.

In L'Univers, Camille read:

The war in which we are about to engage is, on the part of France, neither the work of a party nor an adventure imposed by the sovereign. The nation undertakes it willingly.

La Liberte' wrote:

For several days we have not ceased to call for war. We have asked for it in all our prayers. The future...our soul and our conscience tell us that, in acting thus and in demanding war, we have obeyed the duty which, outside of all other considerations, the dignity and the honor France imposes upon us.

In the streets of Paris dense crowds forced the omnibuses off their usual routes; the "Marseillaise" was sung at cafe concerts. An observer noted:

"Not only the capital, but every city, every village of France, was seized with military enthusiasm; and there were but few Frenchmen who were not carried away by the popular excitemen."

Manet, Degas and Bazille enlisted; Manet and Degas in the Home Guard. Alfred fled to London with his wife Marie and their infant son Frederic.

"What about us?" Julie demanded, close to term. "Don't we have to get the children away?"

What can I say - some things never really change. I do however think that War effects creative people differently than others. I saw the same passion and hunger that Manet, Degas and Bazille must have felt as my husband felt toward Vietnam. It was when he returned home that he had trouble adjusting. His artistic work suffered and than ceased all together as the memories war took over his mind.

To me it doesn't make much sense to become enraged over something like putting a Prussian royal family member on the Spanish throne. And I think Napoleon III was unreasonable about insisting that Bismarck cede the left bank of the Rhine to France. Was it enough to declare war on Prussia? Let's face it; it doesn't take much for our politicans to Declare War; unfortuantely its the rest of us that must suffer.

What will become of Camille and his family? I can't imagine what it must have been like to be almost full term and have an approaching war so close: "By mid-August Paris was besieged by the German army. It was then that Camille heard the first artillery fire..."

Ginger, thank you for sending a welcome email to Wainey, we much appreciate your thoughtfullness.

Éloïse, Your welcome and thanks for the kudos.

this leaves me leaning strongly to my right because the vrticals on the paintings left side create an arrow or something. anwa it's probably true that pissarro's interest was essentially in light and not in form.

Dulwich College London 1871

Later Cezanne had some onfluence even as a younger artist in that his focus was ion FORM.

"'Don't paint bit by bit, but paint everything at once by placing tones everywhere, with brushstrokes of the right colour and value, while noticing what is alongside. Use small brushstrokes and try to put down your perceptions immediately. The eye should not be fixed on one spot, but should take in everything, while observing the reflections which the colours produce on their surroundings.' (Camille Pissarro)"

http://www.cafepress.com/philosophy_shop/1263171

I am not a painter but if I ever wanted to paint, I would try and learn from a great painter. OK but how do you paint “everything at once”? Then I would have to know what my “perception” is. “Take in everything? But How? Reflections the colours produce on their surroundings?” I think I will stick to discussions on Seniornet Books.

"About the painting, 'The Red Roofs' (1877) This painting is certainly one of Pissarro's masterpieces and an illustration of some of the essential aims of Impressionism. It gives a dual sensation--of truth to a particular region and aspect of nature so exactly realized that the spectator seems transported to the scene; and of color that, while creating this effect, has a vibration and lyrical excitement of its own. Pissarro has been described as an unequal painter but if this was from one standpoint a shortcoming it had also an advantage in enabling him to attain exceptional heights from time to time. Pissarro Impressionist Painting: The Red Roofs" I love The Red Roofs

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/pissarro/redroofs/redroofs.jpg

Is buying a painting a luxury or is it necessary in your life?

Do you have paintings in your home?

Where is it hung? How often do you look at it?

Did you buy it or is it a gift?

Is it a painting that once belonged to your family?

Does it matter to you who painted it?

Do you buy a painting for the painter or for the scene?

Would you buy a painting as an investment?

Do you like reproductions of famous paintings?

It would be interesting to share about paintings in our home. Why don't everybody answer some of those questions for fun?

Éloïse

I've been lurking (as a painter) - not reading the book.

"Painting everything at once" means to work over a whole painting at one time; not completing one part (i.e., an apple in a still life) and then moving on to the next (i.e., an orange). You need to work on the whole piece, so the colors will work together, and the sections will progress together and as a whole. Does that make sense?

Re your questions: Paintings are a necessity in my life. Art is a necessity in my life. We have paintings in every room in our house. We see them every where we look - at any section of wall. We have them standing on the floor leaning up against the wall because there is no more room on the walls. We have both bought paintings and received them as gifts. We have some that belonged in our family. It matters who painted it, especially if we know the artists - but mostly it matters that we like the piece of art. It would not necessarily be a scenic painting - we have all types of subject matter, as well as nonrepresentational works. We never buy art as an investment - we buy it because we want to live with it. I do like some famous paintings, but I'd rather have original work than a reproduction of a "famous" piece.

sometimes I buy from artist friends or trade but these aren't necessarily on the wall even if framed. as an artist though I have a bodyof work to choose from. not typical I'm sure.

if I were not I'd buy good prints either in the media that I like or of fine art reproductions. I have a marc Chagall on canvas that was done that way and I love it. It doesn't have to be an original. After all I just want to look at it. . . Claire

We have prints in our house. None of them are by famous artists. They are things that we enjoy. We have even more needlepoint than painting because they are needlepoint that PURPLE SAGE and I have both done. Our walls are filled with things to look at. There are several rows of framed pictures/needlepoint. Sometimes there are things leaning against the walls but we try to get them up off the floor. The floor is for the cats.

Like Marjorie and Purple Sage, not all the "art" in our house is painting. We have sculpture, stained glass, rugs, pottery, needlepoint, you name it, we probably have some of it. "Art" is not limited to paintings.

I can't imagine ever living in a house without lots of paintings and art objects around me.

MaryZ, welcome. Thank you for telling us how you like art in your house. It is interesting that you have art on all the walls of your house. Then, I imagine when you walk through the house your eyes are constantly moving from one piece of art to the other. Have you ever been tempted to remove one art piece in an important spot to replace it with another that you have fallen in love with? When you say: “I do like some famous paintings, but I'd rather have original work than a reproduction of a "famous" piece.” Is it because you are a painter?

Claire, Are all your walls covered with art too?

I used to do a lot of needlework before Marjorie, I have done several fairly large ones and I gave one to each of my daughters and kept only one. One of them is a reproduction of a Renoir, girls at the piano and I love it. I like reproductions too.

EmmaBarb, can you describe some of them for us?

As you say Mary, art is not only about paintings, literature, music and anything creative is artistic. A scientist in an interview once said that scienctists and artists should work together because artists have more imagination and can draw abstract ideas, is that what you all think?.

Eloise, I do like original art because I'm a painter, but we were more interested in original art even before I started painting (which I didn't do until my mid40s).

We do change the pieces around from time to time. Just this year, we acquired several more Navajo rugs, and decided to dedicate a whole wall to them and to our other pottery and Indian art. So other pieces came down - and are currently homeless leaning against the wall in our dining room.

When I said, original art was not just painting, I have to admit I wasn't thinking about literature and music - although that was my error. I was thinking in terms of sculpture, pottery, basketry, fabric, needlework, etc. In truth, I believe everyone is artistic in some way - cooking, interior design, sewing, gardening, etc., etc.

There have been courses offered to engineers, etc., (definitely left-brained people) to teach them to use their right-brains (the creative side) more effectively. My husband, retired electrical engineer, is an excellent critic of my art, because he can see balance, etc., with his organized side that I might miss. This is especially helpful with the nonrepresentational work that I do.

Joan, if you want to buy original art, look no further than your home town. I'm sure that Arlington has a wonderful art community, with plenty of weekend arts & crafts fairs, and local art shows. That's a great place to look and learn what you like. We have a cousin in Alexandria, and I love to go to the Torpedo Factory there - another great place to look. The thing to do is just look and look at all different kinds of things, until you find something that you love and that fits your budget. That's wonderful that you have your son's work to hang - and some that you've inherited and that have family history. Always a treat! I love the story about your MIL cutting the figure out of the painting.

Pearson, Your wish is my comand. Pissarro, Camille Red Roofs

I have some original art on my walls that is very precious to me. These are paintings done by my late husband , Theron Boyd. I also have a painting done by Theron's sister who is an artist. She gave it to me. Then I have a beautiful painting of Cardinals done by an Alabama artist that Theron gave me once for my birthday. On my recent trip to North Carolina I bought a painting of an Indigo Bunting at the Folk art and Crafts center near Ashville on the Blueridge Parkway. In the orignal art I own I have a sculpture of a Puffin that Theron and I bought from the person who did it. We acquired it on our trip to Canada where we saw Puffins. I also have a piece of Glass that hangs on my window in the kitchen that is a puffin bought on that same trip. I have just ordered a piece of stained glass that I saw in the conservatory shop at the Biltmore House. it is a Cardinal. I saw it while there but did not see how I could possibly carry it home. So I went to the website and ordered it. It is by a North Carolina artist. I also have photographs that Theron took that are enlareged and framed pn my walls.

I have other art that is not orignal also. I have two prints by Pissarro that I really love. One is Boulevard Montmartre, morning, cloudy weather 1897 . You can see it by clicking here Pissarro Painting. The other one is The Banks of the Voisne at inn gray weather winter. However I cannot find a picture of it on the web. There is supposed to be one on the National Gallery of Victoria website but I get a broken stamp when I click on it.

Other art that I have that is not original are two tapestry panels. I have a panel from the Bayeux Tapestry that hangs over my mantle in the living room. I love it. The colors of it go with my furnishings in the room. I also have a Lady and the Unicorn tapestry panel that hangs in my bedroom. The Lady and the Unicorn series is one of my favorite tapestry series.

I have something else that many might not consider art but I do. It is a huge framed poster of the I.M. Pei Pyramids at the Louvre at nigt. I really enjoy having it on my walls. It is huge and Theron made the frame and framed it for me.

I also have a print of a painting by Vigee LeBrun called Marie Antionette surreounded by her trois children in 1787. I bought it at Versailles where the original hangs. You can see it by clicking on Marie-Antoinette

Those are the main things that I have on my walls.

Joan Grimes

I have a few oil paintings that my husband did & I've hung them in the hall way along with my daughter & son-in-law's photos and paintings. It's a sort of museum to my family.

I inherited my grandmother's maghony furniture so my living room and dinningroom walls are hung with posters from Picasso's Cubic period & other French posters deplicting Paris in the 1930s which was when the maghony furniture was bought. It all seems to go with my Art Deco glass tables and my reproduction of the Crosby radio popular in the 1930s. The radio plays tapes and I love to sit back and listen to old time radio shows like Lux theatre & Mercury theatre.

Book Seven: "Cape of Tempests": Chapter 6:

"He had already made out his will before leaving for London for Emma's funeral, "bequeathing all I possess of worldly goods to Mademoiselle Julie Vellay." He had no worldly goods aside from his paintings. As his patriotism to France's new republican government grew he realized that there was one thing more he must do: marry Julie so that their three children would become legitimate. He wrote to his mother with care and zeal the most eloquent letter he had ever written. It must have been, for by return mail Rachel gave her tentative permission:

"I don't approve of your marriage. I never shall. But if I must have three grandchildren they should be legitimate. Marry, if you must. Then let me hear no more about it."

This paragraph made me chuckle. My husband and I did the same thing in 1967. My parents wanted us to wait until he returned from the war, but we couldn't wait so we got married two days before he was to return to Vietnam.

Claire, Are all your walls covered with art too?

walls and surfaces and patio and stored on shelves build for it in the garage.

some of my friends hang my art either because they want a piece of me and bought it or I gave it to them. They were quite happy to have me do that. . .give it to them framed it ad lived with it forever. I often wondered, if they liked it so much why they never offered to buy any. I guess some people never BUY art. It just doesn't occur to them a la Joan P. The ones who do honor it and me and I appreciate it.

I am/was also a ceramist/potter and am loaded with that as are my friends who did buy that at sales. somehow it's ok to buy pots if not paintings and prints.

and when I taught folk guitar, they sent their kids or took lessons from me themselves, so it's not the money. IT'S JUST THAT THEY DON'T BUY art. STRANGE.

I DO WHEN I CAN AFFORD IT PHOTOS AND LITHOS AND ETCHINGS AND SERIGRAPHS SOME OF WHICH ARE TRADES WITH ARTIST FRIENDS.

WHEN I WAS YOUNG THERE WAS AN ENORMOUS PAINTING CALLED saint cecelia OVE THE FIREPLACE IN OUR TWO STORY LIVING ROOM. ONE OF MY FATHERS CLIENTS HAD PAID HIM WITH IT. STRANGE IN A JEWISH HOUSEHOULD. MAYBE THAT'S WHY MOTHER DIDN'T LIKE IT. . .THE HALF PARTED LIPS. SHE ALWAYS SAID THE I SHE LOOKS LIKE SHE HAS ADNOIDS.

OUR HOUSEHOLD SAINT WAS STRANGE TO ALL OF US. WE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT HER. Please forgive the caps I was typing with my head down. I wasn't looking because the screen hurt my eyes. they mean nothing.

CLAIRE

I forgot that I have pottery and sculpture from Arizona also along with little enameled boxes from many places I have traveled.

Joan Grimes

So many interesting posts here about art and where it is hung in your home. I love it.

Joan P. RED ROOFS PAINTED IN 1877 and this time a full size image, it fills my screen. I just wanted to see why it was one of his most illustrious piece. The blue above on top could even be the river it seems to flow, but if there is a hill (probably the hill at Pontoise) then it is the sky I believe. Little touches of white here and there adds luminosity to the painting.

Oh! Joan Grimes, I too love the Montmartre and the Marie Antoinette painting, so elegant. It’s easy to imagine her in Versailles entertaining her guests. I didn’t know Theron painted.

Scrawler, Love prevails, if your husband was going to fight in the war, you wanted to get married before he left, not wait until he came back. How romantic, but also so sad that he lost his spirit, in a way, and could never forget the atrocities he saw there. Such useless pain and suffering, I mean what for? What did it accomplish?

Claire you mean to say that your mother never liked a painting that hung over your fireplace? That must have been hard to live with every day though.

Going out for dinner tonight, I have to go. I am tearing myself away from this discussion. Please continue I will come back this evening perhaps.

Éloïse

If I had, I would certainly join in this discussion. Amazon said it was not available......!. Love the impressionists, on one of my visits to Paris many,many many years ago went to the Musee de la Paume. The first hotel I ever stayed in Paris.(about 1948).my small room had a Degas print on the wall...! Greetings to you all Collette

Colkot - Try half.com for a copy. They have several listed. I bought my copy from them and it is quite satisfactory. Just keep an eye on the ratings for the dealer you're using!

I have been lurking since this is a very, very busy time for me but I am interested in the book and in the wonderful discussion you folks are having!!

I don't have it and probably won't get it now that I know more about it. this discussion has been so good I could participate without it. . . claire

I have my own original art works all over the house. I have a few prints I like that are framed, four of my brother's original paintings, and a collection of large Christmas cards from The White House that are framed. I also have several horse sculptures, two marble busts, and lots of glass art. I have a dolphin collection and some oriental art pieces. Oh and some dried flowers that are framed and a peacock embroidery on silk. And last but not least my collection of art books.
This is only the inside of my house, on the outside I have all of nature to look at.
Right now there is a very dense fog and it's pretty looking across the way at the trees and street lights with some Christmas lights in the background. The whole scene takes on a sort of orange and silver glow.

I am usually ellen c but I went back to my wartime nickname for archives! I am loving the book about Pissarro and his friends and relatives. My grandmother was a bit like Rachel, she never approved of my father. What a pity Camille told her about the money he earned, and she had an excuse to chop his allowance - I can see my Granny doing the same! I have a lovely little book of Mary Cassatt, great paintings but wasnt she lucky to be an American and have wealthy friends.

Collette, So nice to see you again, this time in Depths of Glory. I still think about the Bash in Montreal and the fun we had and the photos. If you went to the Musée du Jeu de Paume, it no longer exists in that spot, it was moved to the old Gare d'Orsey, it is called Musée d'Orsey. It is very grandiose, I have been to it about 5 years ago to see the Impressionist painters. If you manage to get the book, you will love it I am sure. We would love to hear from you again.

Joan Roberts, You too, my friend. I bet you go to Museums often if you live in or close to New York City. Tell us what art you have at home if you don't mind doing that.

I belong to a book club near my home and we went out for dinner last night. It's nice to be able to talk about books with people who enjoy the same books as you.

Joan Grimes, could you take a photo of the tapestry you talked about so we can enjoy it too? I would love to see it.

EmmaBarb, Isn't it wonderful to see nature in all its splendor just outside your window. I have a big park with huge trees. Strangely enough, this year we still don't have snow. It will come soon enough though.

Wainey, Is this the book about Mary Cassatt that was discussed here last or two years ago that Joan G was leading? Yes, Americans helped their painters abroad, that is nice.

Éloïse

Last night we had a frightful wind storm with gusts up to 60 miles an hour. The old oak trees across from me were banging their skinny skeleton-like branches as if they were in some kind of horror movie trying desperately to get into the apartment. This is the other side of nature - as if she is reminding us all just where We human beings stand. When I went out to go to the store early this morning there was an obstacle course that I had to go through in order to drive out on to the main road. Trees were down and when I got to the stores several people were saying they had been without power all night. I watched downtown Portland in the news where several of the main streets were flooded - and now its clear and sunny as if last night had all been some terrible nightmare. I wonder if the Immpressionists ever painted storm paintings.

impressionist and storms? hmmm don't know Turner did but he's not an impressionist. However, writers do. . .paint storms with words. vbg

claire

BERTHE MORISOT

is one of my favorite painters. The paintings you see here are all superb. They ooze with tenderness and meaning.

They exhibited their work again and again in spite of the public's reaction to their art. In 1874 a new group of painters is formed, The Society of the Independents and opened with their first exhibition on April 15. At last they could be free to exhibit their work freely far away from the hated Official Salon. The press would have a field day yet they would still go ahead with it.

The public came in droves, they stood in groups crying out "Absurd! Insulting! Desecrating!. A group circled in front of a Degas's Dance Class; Renoir's The Loge; Monet's Impression Sunrise: Cézanne's Hanged Man's House; Sisley's The Seine at Port Marly, Camille's Hoar Frost, Berthe Morisot's The Cradle, (which is shown in the link).

Funny how people are, they copy each other, further on Sisley said: "How can landscapes, pictures of the theater, of ballet dancers, of laundresses, or the racetrack arouse such bedlam. People are pointing and shouting at our canvases, as though there was something indecent about them." They were not indecent, they were just NEW.

"Through buffoonery a new name was coined; Impressionism. Thus Monet and Camille, who, sitting before Camille's fireplace in Pontoise had formed the Société Anonyme, and were responsible for the showing, were also responsible for the birth of their new name. The public picked it up.

Today, you would have the army protecting these treasures as they are worth several million dollars.

I can see the colors in the one at the top. . .lovely. can't wait to revisit the links and see everything as it should be . . .yehhh. . claire

I have put the questions for the third week in the heading.

I love Berthe Morisot's painting also.

Joan Grimes

John Constable was another artist who painted storms. Lots of artists paint stormy skies and thunder clouds (I love them).

I did follow constable to Olgas gallery and noticed that all his skies seem to be where he gets to hang loose. most of them are like paintings in themselves.. . very cloudy even stormy.

a painting some sky on this one.

claire

Thank you Joan for posting the questions, food for thought here.

Like after any war the French Economy had stopped for a while before moving forward again. Painters as well as others were suffering from the aftermath of war. Once more the Pissarros suffered hardship and privation. The depression even brought down the group's best supporter, the gallery owner Durand-Ruel.

What plagues poverty stricken artists is when the chips are down financially, they can't easily fall back on some other line of work, they don't have one. Their only expertise, usually is art and go starving if someone doesn't rescue them from starvation, that is why they need each other for moral support.

"Corot was the leading painter of the Brabizon school of France in the mid-nineteenth century. Historians somewhat arbitrarily divided his work into periods, but the point of division is never certain, as he often completed a picture years after he began it. In his early period he painted traditionally and "tight" - with minute exactness, clear outlines, and with absolute definition of objects throughout. After his 50th year his methods changed to breadth of tone and approach to poetic power, and about 20 years later, from about 1865 onwards his manner of painting became full of mystery and poetry. In part, this evolution in expression can be seen as marking the transition from the plein-air paintings of his youth, shot through with warm natural light, to the studio-created landscapes of his late maturity, enveloped in uniform tones of silver..." ~ Wikipedia

I myself think that the painters of the Barbizon school where not that much different than some of the more traditional artists of the time. The public accepted historical and religious more so than some of the subjects of the Impressionists paintings. I think that is really the key - traditional painters romantized or glorified their subjects, but the Impressionists painted what they saw. I think for example that the general public accepted the nudes of the Romantic period, but they didn't want to be reminded of the nude women that "Oylmpia" for example reminded them.

JoanP, your father-in-law was quite a hunk! Excuse the impression. Thank you for posting this photo. I was going to mention the drapes next to the painting, but I didn't dare.

Scrawler, it's interesting how Corot changed his style, probably through the younger painters influence.

I am following Story of Civilization discussion, as usual and we are discussing the Renaissance movement in art I wanted to compare art in the 14th century with the 19th century.

LAMENTATION BY GIOTTO AT THE UFFIZI PALACE IN FLORENCE

Justin's post in S of C.

"There are several new techniques at work in this painting. The figures have volume which is achieved by elementary chiaroscuro. Shadows can be found in the drapes which help to depict depth. The figures farthest away are smaller than those in the foreground indicating a position of depth. There is a diagonal in the painting also creating an illusion of depth. If you look for things of this nature in Martini , for example, you will not find them.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Justin - 12:39pm Dec 16, 2006 PT (#320 of 338) Yes, Eloise. That's the one. Look how he employs gesture. The Mary at Christ's feet is expressing tenderness that cannot be missed. We are looking at the beginning of the Renaissance in art right here. This is a seminal work. The palette is lighter than those of others of his time. The sky is blue. Not Gold. Figures stand on a level. They do not "go up the page" for depth. Faces are round and shadowed and full."

Joan Pearson ~ what a terrific painting ! I'd hang that painting in my house any day.
Sometimes if you photograph a painting out-of-doors in natural daylight you can eliminate those light spots.

I don't know what it is about Carot, but I love his landscape paintings around the river. He knew just where to place his dabs of color.

I kept looking for the "Café de la Terrasse à Arles" but couldn't find one large enough to really get the feel of it enough to put it here. It is one of my favorites, BUT THIS ONE is a Pissarro I don't remember seeing before. I noticed that his models must have been his wife and daughter Minette, who died. The depth of this painting is remarkable. The house, instead of being on the same plane or about, is far above like if it was on a hill, yet, it also seems to be on a level plane as the figures. How do you see this?

Cloudy, dark skies, humid, still no snow on this mid December day. Let's hope for a white Christmas. I love to hear the snow falling on the ground while walking at night.

I see the top of a tall house two or three stories. not a perspective problem . I love what he's done with the flowers and the sky. . the daps working here as light not dabs. trees are not working quite as well as the dabs want to hop off the surface.

why do painters of this period keep putting their women and girls in filmy white dresses. they must love to paint them. I call it the "pretty girls in white dresses" school. Renoir did it the best.

claire

is this it?

the Cafe Terrace on the Place du Forum Arles at Night?

There are several versions at the poster place one of them looks cropped and the colors are greener this is the warmer version.

Claire

EmmaBarb, thank you for the link to JOHN CONSTABLE. When I went to England, there were so many paintings by him. Several of his are depicting storms it's true. He came before the Impressionists, Pissarro being only 2 when Constable died. But he left his mark in the art lover's world.

Claire, thank you for the Café de la Terrasse, I think? I saw the original in Paris, but not sure anymore having seen so many either in reproduction or on the web. I feel familiar with Impressionists, especially having been in Depths of Glory for one month.

How is Pissarro making out now that he is quite settled with his family, Julie always patient and giving. You know Claire I saw many paintings of women dressed in other than a white dress. Both his wife and his daughter mending and sewing were dressed in black, sitting by the window. With a ten dollars sale, Camille paid two months rent, bought supplies and with Julie's cooking gained weight????

Do you realize that his paintings at that time ranged from 25 by 30" to 45 by 60 inches. Durand-Ruel exclaimed: "Pissarro, my friend, these paintings are as beautiful as any you have done. They should all sell." Camille even tried selling his oils door to door without success.

Just read in our daily newspaper that according to demographers, the oldest woman on earth now is Miss Winnifred Bertrand, she was born in Coaticook about 100 miles from Montreal but she now lives here. My mother was born in Coaticook too. Miss Bertrand never married, maybe that is why she lived so long, hahahaha.

How old is she?

Pissarro's garden at Pontoise reminds me of Monet's garden. The house does appear to be on a hill unless it's a three-story house. I don't see any steps leading down from the house to where the two figures are.

We've been having unseasonably warm temps for this time of year...surely it won't last.

Éloïse De Pelteau ~ I just love the sea and the clouds in that Constable link you posted.

I can't imagine going door-to-door to sell your paintings, but I guess they did what they had to to survive.

Miss Winnefred Bertrand I believe is 115-yrs old.

EmmaBara, Thanks for answering. 115 years old gives us hope. I wonder how she achieved living this long.

Thanks EmmaBarb.

Ginger Miss Bertrand was born in Coaticook, the same town as my mother in the Eastern Townships of Quebec. Apparently she was always careful about what she ate, according to her sister-in-law. She looked after her parents until they died and worked as a salesclerk in her small town for 35 years.

I'm going for my water aerobics exercises, will be back this PM.

Everybody busy with their Christmas shopping? Me too.

Today's NPR Morning Edition had a feature on the effect the invention of paint tubes in France in 1841 had on painting. Looks like it led to the impressionists, or at least helped them.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6640315

I hope I got the link right and you can look at the transcript of hear the sound.

Juanita Millican

Book Eight: These Fragile Moments: Chapter 1:

"...The library room off the living room had been used as a stable but the books on the shelves were undisturbed. Would the inhabitants of the land of Goethe not harm a book?

...Digging around, he uncovered an oil painting from Pontise. In a half-demented frenzy he dug out with his hands more canvases that had been subjected to scuffing, rain, mud, decomposure. He clutched the bundle to his chest, ran to the house...

"More of my paintings half buried in the garden," he cried to Monsieur Ollivon. "Destroyed as though by some pounding machine."

"The soldiers used them as mats on which to wipe their boots."

He found a number of blood-soaked canvases which had been used as aprons when the soldiers killed the sheep. When he walked to the river for a respite, some of the washerwomen were also wearing the canvases as aprons wrapped around their waists. He went among them, saying nothing but appraising each painting for damage. They were watersoaked, the mositure unfastening the sizing glue and making the paint peel off. They were mangled at the corners where they were tied with string. The women looked up at him without expression. They somehow knew they were wearing his paintings, but they had not stolen them, they had found them in the streets and the woods. When he returned to the house through the village, men who had availed themselves of his absence to loot the house and descrate his work stared at him as though he were a stranger.

"Ravages of war," Ollivon commented when Camile told him of the unpleasantness.

"Why do they sneer? The women at the pool, the men in the streets and shops?

Partly because you were able to flee to safety while they had to remain here; partly because they never really accepted a man who putters with paint.

...It was not wise to harbor bitterness. Soldiers from all nations at war looted and destroyed. Was not the Louvre filled with paintings the conquering Napoleon had taken out of Itlay? Statues, ancient and inscribed monuments, out of Egypt? Frederic Bazille's parents grieved for their tall, loveable son. What sense did it make to mourn the loss of drawings and paintings?

An end to somber regret and recriminations. Creativity was in him. He would double his output.

When I first read this chapter I was saddened by it. But Stone's words: "Soldiers from all nations at war looted and destroyed," put it in perspective and than I think Camille had the right idea: "An end to somber regret and recriminations. Creativity was in him. He would double his output."

Do you suppose that the Germans didn't touch the library because they too loved books; where they were uncertain of Camille's paintings and felt they were not worth saving?

Juanita, thanks for the link to the NPR story. That was fascinating. I knew about some of the story, but not that much.

yes that explains it. I remember now she was holding scroll and there may have been a lute. my father had a huge classical record collection much of the three B's and branching out. both he and my mother played classical piano often together. big collection of sheet and book music some of it duets. for a while we had two grand pianos until one disappeared. as I understood it they had "words" while playing . They never argued so I didn't see it. a very calm space between them. He was super busy. . .another story. and listening to music and playing it calmed him. in our family all played.

one of my problems now is that I can no longer sight read since I see three horizontals for every one. . .I never memorized but sight read everything. I gave away most of the difficult stuff to someone here whose daughter? was happy to have it. three file boxes full and about forty buck to mail.

Mom a graduate of chicago musical college in voice. yep music meant something. and does.

I graduated to classical and later folk guitar after moving from my parents house to a small apartment -- marriage and sans piano. . .for a while. saved my money and bought a chickering grand. not like the family steinway but. . .a PIANO.

Joan you let loose a torrent. I collect music on line from the Classical Archives, a wonderful source for those of us addicted.

thanks again. . .claire

Joan P. In my humble opinion painters often paint a woman wearing a white dress because it stands out best against a dark background and the eye quickly gravitate towards that. I feel it’s the same thing about Constable’s white horse. A white horse stands out, I enlarged the painting and could see several horses, some in the river, some on the opposite bank. Constable’s paintings are somber, the cloud formations are stormy in almost every one of his paintings, perhaps this was his temperament.

In Book 9, Camille’s nine paintings and watercolors were bid in for a total of eighty dollars, not even ten dollars each. Monet’s twelve painting, Berthe Morisot, Renoir, Sisley fared no better. Only Manet’s paintings reached one hundred sixty dollars. Camille feels that “Julie receives no fulfillment from the painting. I cannot understand how she gets through the days….I have let her down, he says” We can feel his anguish at not being able to provide for his family, not because he couldn’t find any other work but because his passion for painting left him no respite, there was nothing else he could/would do with his time. It was an obsession, an addiction, but this time an obsession that the art lovers would appreciate for centuries but he didn’t know that.

Do you all think that if he had been more appreciated by the public and his paintings sold at high prices, he would have been as productive?

Juanita, I think you are right, when paint tubes were invented it became much easier for painters as they could put only a dab of color on their palate, making painting much less expensive.

Claire, I would have loved to live in a house where everybody played the piano and sang. I tried transmitting my love of music to my children, but as both my husband and me didn’t play, the kids didn’t either. Two grand pianos? That must have been a big living room, yes? What do you mean that you collect from Classical Archives? Do you download it on CDs? I want to go and see this.

http://www.classicalarchives.com

you can download five titles a day for free or join for twenty five dollars a year the first year. I now pay twenty and download more than you'll ever need or can imagine a hundred a day a thousand a month . I have lots of the romantics debussy for one and the clasics chopin ad mozart etc. there is even some sam barbor a twentieth century modern composer and more new ones coming in all the time as people send in their versions that they have from records or . . .

it's a marvelose place run by an individual.

go see. luv, claire

Joan Pearson ~ You never want direct sun (or the heat of a lightbulb) to shine directly on or over an oil painting. Actually this is not good practice for any painting be it oil or whatever.
Thanks for that link to the Constable exhibit...I wish I could get to downtown D.C. to visit all the art museums like I did when I was younger and working down there.

jbmillican (Juanita) ~ that's interesting, unfortunately I'm not able to hear the story. Is there a link to reading the entire story ? I didn't have any luck finding anything.

I have always loved Mary Cassatt's paintings of children...I can't imagine her painting anything else.

Claire ~ I love jazz piano and classical piano music. My aunt was a music teacher and tried teaching me but I had a problem reading the sheet music and tried to play by ear. I also took singing lessons...light opera...but later lost my voice. I love to sing but my voice cracks and I cough a lot.

This has been a fascinating discussion. I will make a serious search for the book after the holidays.

EmmaBarb: MARY CASSATT PAINTINGS

You will see 18 paintings by MC and the one I remember most is the "Girl in the Blue Armchair". She didn't have children of her own, is that right? but her paintings reflected the mother and child theme so well.

Book Nine: "The Meditations of my Heart": Chapter 1:

"The Impressionist Exhibition had closed, after a full month. As far as visibility was concerned, the show had been successful, with thirty-five hundred viewers attending, five hundred of them in the evening. The sales had ranged from dismal to devastating. Camille sold one canvas for twenty-six dollars. Cezanne sold his "Hanged Man's House" to Comte Doria for twenty dollars. Alfred Sisley proved to be the star attraction, selling two hundred dollars' worth of canvases. Monet and Renoir sold one painting each for forty dollars. Degas and Berthe Moriso sold nothing. Neither did Boudin or Bracquemond. Nor did the conventional paintings, whose canvases were ignored in the hullabaloo. The painters trundled home their pictures, a symbolic R provided by the public. The abuse showered upon the Society had done an effective job of souring the collectors on the so-called Impressionists. His own dealer, Martin, joined the chorus when he said publicly:

"I was wrong about Pissarro. He is doomed by his heavy approach to nature."

Do you think that the general public came out of curiosity rather than with any intentions of buying anything at all? Perhaps the few paintings that were sold were not bought because the buyers felt they held any legitimate value, but rather were conversational pieces. And what do you think Martin meant when he said that: "he [Pissarro] was doomed by his heavy approach to nature?"

Since Eloise quoted Monet about his gardens I am going to post some photos that I took in his gardens at Giverny in May of 2002.


Bridge covered with Wisteria in the Japanese garden at Giverny


More Wisteria


Standing on bridge and looking through Wisteria to bridge at the other end of the pond.

Eloise, thanks for the quotes. I enjoyed reading each one. Now, with JoanGrimes posting Monet's gardens I am really excited. I can't imagine standing in Monet's gardens, too beautiful. What a luscious memory. I love the last photo best. The Wisteria hanging over the pond and the bridge in the background take my breath away. In one photo, I see rhododendrons. I call those azaleas. Is that what the deep pink flowers are? Each photo is taken at a different angle. So, I just love all of the photos. With the bridge, It's like being in a Japanese garden, I think.

Hats,

Thanks for your nice comments. The deep pink flowers are azaleas.

Joan Grimes

Éloïse De Pelteau ~ good link on the Cassatt paintings. Yes I remember the "Little Girl in a Blue Armchair". Don't you love "The Toreador" ! I seem to recall the children were not hers.

Joan Grimes ~ thank you so much for the photos you posted that you took in Monet's gardens at Giverny. Wisteria reminds me of my young years in the orphanage. We had a lovely arbor of about 24 ft. or more that was covered in vines of different colors. I used to climb on those vines to smell the flowers.
Your photos are wonderful. I can understand why Monet spent so much time there painting what he saw. He spent many hours painting from memory after he lost his eyesight.

EmmaBarb, I love Mary Cassatt's paintings too. I kept the book, Lydia Reading the Morning Paper. Joan was the discussion leader. The book tells about Mary's relationship with her sister. Mary's sister died of Bright's Disease. Mary Cassatt, in her paintings, catches the importance of babyhood, childhood and a mother's love so well. You can almost feel the gentle love jumping off the canvas. I can't imagine how it must feel to see Mary Cassatt's paintings in an exhibit. Didn't Mary Cassatt and her sister share a friendship with Degas? I think this has already been mentioned in earlier posts.

Eloise, thank you for the link to Mary Cassatt's painting. I love Children on the Beach.

I have been in and out shopping. I am behind in my reading. I got up tonight to do some catching up.

It's difficult to read about what happened to Pissarro's paintings during the Franco-Prussian war. I don't know how he survived such emotional pain. His willingness to continue to paint after seeing so many of his works destroyed for no reason shows Pissarro's passion for painting. I think he was truly born to paint.

The house in Louveciennes was full of horse manure, canvases wiped with the blood from soldiers, etc. The books were left untouched. I think Scrawler asked why the books were left untouched and the paintings destroyed. I may be repeating what has already been posted. I am catching up on posts.

"Would the inhabitants of the land of Goethe not harm a book?"

"There was a good two carloads of manure in your place...."

I have no knowledge about Goethe. He wrote very fine literature.

Goethe

I love these thoughts.

"It was not wise to harbor bitterness. Soldiers from all nations at war looted and destroyed."

If this were truly Pissarro's way of thinking, he was a wise man.

Joan, such lovely lovely photos of the Monet's garden that he loved so much and painted over and over. This little Japanese bridge we are so familiar with, can it still be used, or is it corded off now to prevent it from wearing out? I am wondering because it must be over one hundred years old now and it looks the same as when Monet painted it. I bet you must have stayed there a long time in his garden just to bask in its loveliness.

We are all going to be very busy until the Holidays and we can post some Impressionists art. I like different genre of painting as long as it represents something I can recognize. Perhaps too when it is not representative, it is just emotion on canvas and that is what art is supposed to do. When the public rejected the Impressionists, it brought out hidden feelings in them that needed to come out in the open just like a therapy session.

Today when highly emotional people get carried away, they see a therapist, in the previous century artists were declared mentally ill sometimes if their art was too far out of the accepted genre, but it was a way to bring out their emotions.

Goethe

What you don't feel, you will not grasp by art,
Unless it wells out of your soul
And with sheer pleasure takes control
Compelling every listener's heart.

Thank you Hats for the link on Goethe.

"Johann Wolfgang Goethe, later von Goethe was a German polymath: he was a poet, novelist, dramatist, humanist, scientist, theorist, painter, and for ten years chief minister of state for the duchy of Weimar.

Goethe was one of the key figures of German literature and the movement of Weimar Classicism in the late 18th and early 19th centuries; this movement coincides with Enlightenment, Sentimentality, "Sturm and Drang," and Romanticism. The author of "Faust" and "Theory of Colours," he inspired Darwin with his independent discovery of the human intermaxillary jaw bones and focus on evolutionary ideas. Goethe's influence spread across Europe, and for the next century his works were a primary source of inspiration in music, drama, poetry, and philosophy. He is widely considered to be one of the most important thinkers in Western culture, and is often cited as one of history's greatest geniuses." ~ Wikipedia

Hats ~ I haven't read "Lydia Reading the Morning Paper" but I have a book of Mary Cassatt's painting and remember that painting and the fact her sister was very ill. She was in a lot of her paintings. I agree, you can almost feel the love between mother and child jumping off the canvas. I recall something about Degas and that he later became friends with Mary after her sister died. Degas and Renoir greatly influenced her painting.

I tried finding this book again at the local book store but the salesperson couldn't even find it in their database. Usually they offer to order books for me when they don't have them in one of their stores. After the holidays I'll try again.

PISSARRO AND POINTILLISM

POINTILLISM

Camille tried Pointillism, but was never enamored with the method preferring his short brush strokes. Had he given this enough time and effort, he certainly would have improved it, but I think that at the age he was he didn't really want to do something new, I guess, just because another painter seemed to have success with it. Pissarro has done several Pointillism paintings.

I have to admit JoanP that Pointillism seems to be more static, I don't know if it is because Seurat didn't feels movement as well as Impressionists do. Seurat's style, as a Post-Impressionist painter, was totally different and new. Is this a more modern approach? Seurat explained Pointillism to Camille:

Camille: "Now...please explain how Pointillism, or the dot system, enables you to put your theory into practice?"

Seurat: "Brush strokes do not achieve pure color; they change the intensity of all surrounding shades. Even large flat washes are varied in hue and hence imperfect. The dots that I take from my pure pots of white, vermillion, black, red, blue, yellow violet, touched by totally separate unadulterated brush tips, give me fields of absolute color."

Do you think he achieved his goal? It seems to me that Pointillism paintings has never been a favorite of the public. Do you agree?

"Pointillism is a style of painting in which small distinct points of primary colors create the impression of a wide selection of secondary colors. The technique relies on the perceptive ability of the eye and mind of the viewer to mix the color spots into a fuller range of tones, and is related closely to Divisionism, a more technical variant of the method. It is a style with few serious practitioners, and is notably seen in the works of Seurat, Signac, and Cross. The term itself was coined by art critics in the late 1880s to ridicule the works of these artists, and is now used without its earlier mocking connotation.

The practice of Pointilism is in sharp conrast to the more common method of blending pigments on a palette or using the many commercially-available premixed colors.

Theory:

Viewed from a certain distance, the points or dots in a pointillist painting can no longer be distinguished, and blend optically into each other. This means that with the same set of primaries, pointillists generate a different range of colors when compared to artists using traditional colors or color-mixing techniques. The result is sometimes described as brighter or purer since the eye does the mixing and not the brush. An explanation for this could be sought in the subtractive and additive theories of color, but more reasonably in the simultaneous contrasts.

If red, blue and green light are mixed (the additive primaries) we get something close to white light. The brighter effect of pointillist colours could rise from the fact that subtractive mixing is avoided and something closer to the effect of additive mixing is obtained even through pigments.

The brushwork used to perform pointillistic color mixing is at the expense of traditional brushwork which could be used to delineate texture. Color television receivers and computer screens, both CRT and LCD, use tiny dots of primary red, green, and blue to render color, and can thus be regarded as a kind of pointillism.

Paul Gauguin, who had disliked Seurat ever since a quarrel, referred in a derogatory manner to Seurat's technique as 'petit-point'." ~ Wikipedia

To my way of thinking Pointillism paintings would take some getting used to. I would think that you would have to stand at a far distance from the painting in order to really see the blending of the primary colors and than it really would be up to each individual to see it through his/her own eyes. I don't know though that I would go so far as to call it 'petit-point' the way Paul Gauguin said of Seurat's work, but than again perhaps it was the "quarrel" that the two artists had rather than the actual art itself that prompted this reference.

not only interesting color but design wise as well. the purpose of impressionalism is brought to fruision in his work,m letting the eye blend the colors and preserving their luminence.. . .claire

Pontillism is interesting, reminds me of newspaper print and computer images (pixellism ?).

If you click on this link you will see a slide show of Pissarro's Paintings while listening to Debussy's Clair de Lune. It is slow but soothing.

Book Eleven: "The Depths of Glory": Chapter One:

Paul Gauguin came out to Pontoise to spend his summer vacation when the stock market was in the doldrums. It was six years since he had begun attending an artists' academy at night with his associate Emile Schuffenecker, training himself in the rudiments of drawing, and later working with oil paints with Camille. Camille had no doubt of Gauguin's talent, his strong hand and eye for color. Yet a deep-lying problem was coming into focus.

"I'm being torn apart," Gauguin cried. "When I am selling securities I want to be painting. When I am painting I never want to see the Bourse again."

Camille had watched Gauguin's dilemma taking shape.

"Can you afford a leave of abscence?"

Gauguin snorted. "I've made a lot of money but what I've made we spent. Isn't that the normal way?"

Camille sighed. "With me it's been the other way around; I've spent before I've earned. I gather that Mette disapproves?"

"From her point of view she's right. She married an ambitious and prosperous stockbroker. She comes from government bureaucrats whose income has never been challenged. All these years we've lived very well. I've encouraged that. Now she's frightened the money will be cut off."

"So it will be, if you give your job short shift."

"I want to give up my job, spend full time painting. Mette says I owe her and the children an ample livelihood."

Camille was sillent."

This is a dilemma. Do you think Paul Gauguin owed it to his wife and children to continue working at the stockmarket? But what about his own desires. Was Papa Corot right in his advice he gave to Camille when he advised him not to marry? Or do you think Mette was being unreasonable.

Eloise, Thanks for that link. I really enjoyed that.

Eloise you asked if the Japanese bridge at Giverny could still be walke over or was it cordoned off. It is walked over by thousands of people each year. Most people who visit want to pose for and have a photo taken there. That is probably the most photographed spot in the gardens. While on that subject, I will mention that the pond there is the lily pond where the water lilies in Monet's paintings grew. Of course they were not blooming in early May when I took the photos that I posted.

Thanks to all who commented on the photos. I have some taken in October that I will try to post soon. That way you can see the change in flowers at different times of the year. The gardens are open from April 1 until October 31 each year.

Joan Grimes

Hats you said: Why were the books left untouched and the paintings destroyed? I don’t know but it shocked me too when I read that soldiers wiped their feet on Camille’s paintings and women using them as aprons. How sad he must have been, I am quite sure that is in fact what has happened. It reminds me about all the things we throw away that later become invaluable.

I don’t think that Monet’s behavior leaving his wife of many years and having an affair with the mother of six children was as you said,JoanP accepted behavior, but when you hear of something like that, it is always shocking especially for his legitimate wife who has given so much of herself in a marriage.

Among the Impressionist group I think Pissarro was the best husband, the best father and he also was a good son despite what his parents thought of his choice of career. He always respected them and didn’t get angry with his mother for never accepting Julie and worst of all her own grandchildren, for disinheriting Camille and ignoring their poverty when she could very well have helped them financially.

I certainly agree that were it not for Pissarro pressing for exhibits, while ignoring the press and the public’s harsh treatment of Impressionists work, they could not have reached the level of success they did. There are many good artists in the world that never get recognized, but the gallery owners, the correct economic situation in France at the time, the bad publicity they received all contributed to the Impressionists rise in popularity and we can say thanks to Camille Pissarro for this.

I don’t think I will be able to have the luxury of visiting Monet’s garden Joan G but I enjoy the photos you took from the very spot where he painted it. I also like Monet's painting slightly better than Pissarro's and I am trying to understand why but can’t put my finger on it for now. I have not seen as many Pissarros as I have seen those of Monet.

We will be discussing the last chapters of Depths of Glory next week and I will do my best to visit the discussion as often as I can during the Christmas Holidays. I hope you will all stay with us even if it is for a brief comment.

Eloise, thank you for the link to Pissarro's beautiful paintings. I also enjoyed the quiet music of Debussy playing in the background. I have definitely enjoyed reading the book with all of you. There have been so many extra Art offerings along the way. I will miss the discussion.

I still don't know why I like Monet better than Pissarro. Is it because his colors are more vibrant? because his figures are nearer? because the subjects are prettier?

CLAUDE MONET

Take a look at those and perhaps you can say which of the Impressionists you like best.

Of the Impressionists, I like Monet best. I've done his lilly pond is pastels. I'll never get to visit the garden but do appreciate Joan Grimes photographs and look forward to some more.

I also like Monet's paintings better than Pissarro's works of art. From the clickable I love each painting. My favorite is Jardin a Giverny and the deep blue one. Are those lily ponds? Could someone give the French translation of the blue painting? I also love Field of Poppies. The red isn't red. It's different. I love the color. The color is lush.

I am anxious to see Joan's other photos too.

Book Twelve: "Plant Virtue in Every Soul": Chapter One:

"In Paris in mid-January 1886 he received a note from Lucien in Eragny which would foreshadow the rest of the year.

"They have come for the rent: Mother found a pretext. If you can get the money to pay the landlord, return here. Mother claims that it's absolutely pointless for you to be in Paris and she adds that you're just annoying the people you asked to sell for you. Mother is very worried..."

Do you agree that Julie had a right to be worried? And do agree with her that it was pointless for Camille to be in Paris? But what choice did Pissarro have? Do you think he was at a low point of his life at this time?

Joan Grimes

Joan!!! what a beautiful wreath !!!! I love it. Thank you so much my friend. Christmas is a great time of the year when we can all STOP doing what we are doing and start preparing for the CELEBRATION.

I am cooking apple pies right now but we will have them for Christmas dinner, my meat pies are cooked and I will make the dough on Christmas morning before everybody gets here. My grandchildren are either teenagers now or all grown up. No more Santa Claus here, boo hou. Instead of that we decided we would get all dolled up in our best fineries.

I'll see you tomorrow

What a beautiful wreath!! We have just about finished shopping. We have grandchildren. So, the search and shop goes on.

Book Thirteen: "An Artist Family": Chapter One:

"Collectors, like every other segment of society, have their fads," Van Gogh explained. "It could be a trapeze artist at the Cirque d'Hiver, and actress at the Comedie Francaise. All Paris is talking about Monet today. Who can tell about tomorrow?"

Monet's canvases were being bought in America for eight hundred to twelve hundred dollars each. Degas declared that Monet created nothing but beautiful decorations. The critic Feneon charged the paintings with being more vulgar then ever. Renoir found them retrograde The Durand-Ruels declared them of poor quality, a judgment Camille suspected was caused by Monet's having given them to Theo Van Gogh to sell."

I couldn't help wonder if all art goes in cycles. Were the paintings of the Renaissance also considered "fads" by the general public or since they were commissioned where they not considered for the public's viewing until a later time. Could we say that with the beginning of Impressionists that we were entering into our "modern" day philosophy of Art - where art was painted with the general public in mine rather than one particular person who commissioned a specific piece of art.

Scrawler, I wish I had time to answer some of your pertinent questions today, they are so interesting but I would have to have more time than I have right now. Just remember that what you are asking is exactly what I was wondering. Sometimes I keep thinking that the author is just writing fiction and sometimes I think how right he is. Who knows what the artists were thinking or even saying, but I like to think he was right.

Later this week I want to talk about Julie who helped Pissarro so much by her patience and intelligence. I really like that woman. Do women in painters lives influence their art that much? I don't want to say my thoughts about that right now, but I would be interested in knowing what others think?

Eloise, I like Julie too. Living in unpredictable circumstances, never knowing when the next money would come in to feed and house her children had to take a great deal of strength, determination to go through another day. Plus, not all of her children lived. Even Pissarro wonders at her ability not to give in and fall apart.

"Julie works only to feed and clothe her brood. She receives no fulfillment from the painting. I cannot understand how she gets through the days. She should hate me. Perhaps she does at times..."

Is it possible for a woman, wife to watch her husband create beauty and not wish to do the same in her own way?

If I am not mistaken, Julie's great love is her flowers. To own a flower shop, I think, is her deep desire. Probably, Julie understands Pissarro"s need to create because she also is creative.

With all of Julie's goodness, I don't see her as a wife, mother who is afraid to speak her mind. She is gentle and firm all at the same time. She is a strong woman.

My Smithsonian magazine (Jan '07) arrived yesterday and there is an interesting article about the influence of Paris on American painters of the late 19th century, many journeyed to the epicenter of the Impressionist movement . The magazine is online, however, this current issue won't appear for another couple of weeks.

Merry Christmas !

I will try to comment on Scrawler's question tomorrow but today I am just snowed under with cooking.

Thanks for the information on the latest issue of Smithsonian magazine Emma Barb. There is even an American Museum of Art at Giverny , just doen the road from Monet's home. There is usually a wonderful exhibition of American art there. It centers around American painters who came to France to study art. I have beent here quite a few times. Msybe I will post some photos taken outside it sometime this week. I will try, although my week is going to be very busy.

Have a wonderful Christmas day everyone!

Joan Grimes

Book Fourteen: "Harvest": Chapter One:

"Anarchists in such journals as "La Revolte" and "Le Pere Peinard" had advocated the destruction of the oppressive French government. The building at 136 Boulevard St. Germain, where lived a magistrate who had taken part in trials in which anarchists were condemned, was blown up. A few days later a bomb exploded at Lobau barracks. Toward the end of the month a bomb destroyed another building in the Rue de Clichy. Although no lives were lost, Paris was in a state of terror. Camille was disheartened, abhorring violence in any form, and deeply regretted the blasts, believing that direct action was as destructive for the perpetrator as for the victim. He contributed to a fund to help feed the children of the men being held in the Parisian jails."

Do you think that his feelings for "non-violence" were reflected in Camille's art?

Scrawler, Had I been Julie, I would also have been worried thinking about feeding and clothing the family, but I think that a woman who loved her husband as she did trusted him to take his responsibilities however his painting seemed unreasonable to her at the time. She understood Camille's total devotion to his paintings and couldn't bear to see him unhappy doing anything else than paint. Painting was in his blood and even if she had moments of despair - and he understood her frustration but didn’t hold it against her - his tenderness and love could make her forget her bitterness.

I think that without Julie, Pissarro COULD NEVER had become the great painter he became. She held him up for 50 years, posed for him, raised their children, put food on the table. Yes Julie was rewarded with comfort at the end of her life as we see in the last pages of the book. Her work was not in vain.

I think Camille often felt discouraged, but he didn’t see an alternative to the money problems. The walls of his house was full of the other Impressionists paintings as well as his own. Imagine the wealth hanging there not bringing in any money. ”They (his children) had grown up with artists; each had taught them a little, as well as leaving sketches and watercolors behind on their walls. Cézanne had been generous in giving the family portraits of himself and Hortense, as well as a painting ‘Wine Market’ all hanging in the living room, along with Monet’s effect of snow’ and several paintings by Guillaumin and Gauguin, who had stayed with them so often.

Félix, his son coming out of the Louvre one day commented: ”We have our own Museum”

I have to laugh at this: ”Their denigrator Gérôme printed in the Journal des Artistes: We are in a century of decadence and imbecility….The whole level of society is declining visibly. {This legacy} includes the painting of Monsieur Manet, does it not? And of Monsieur Pissarro and others? I repeat, for the state to accept filth like this would mean a tremendous withering of morality….Anarchists! And fools! People joke about it and say: “It’s not important-wait.” But no! (Gérôme says) it’s the end of the Nation of France”

Was that written Before the 19th century? Or was it written today in the 21st century? The more things change, the more they remain the same.

I hope you all had a nice Christmas holiday. I had a nice time. We celebrated during 3 days. Thank God for Christmas and dinner parties both my two single sisters said. Dinner downstairs on the 24th and a Nativity movie for the 8 of us afterwards. Everybody came up to my house for brunch on the 25th and then we opened our gifts. Christmas dinner and wonderful traditional Christmas dishes. My three teenage grandchildren, one grandson with his wife, two daughters, one son-in-law and my two sisters. The other 9 live far away and I had just seen them at my son's wedding.

Now we continue with our life and with our discussion on Depths of Glory by Irving Stone. I still enjoy rereading it and every paragraphs is food for thought. What a lovely story that is, I learned so much about art with all of you and thank you for your fine comments and please continue to post your thoughts as I assume that you have all read to the end.

I was anxious to know if Julie was finally rewarded for her life with this famous painter and I am so glad she did. I wonder when she died, it doesn't say does it.

It's nice to read about your holiday with family and friends. I have a small family but we're very close. They were here with me and we had a wonderful time. I'm a bit sad now they've all gone home.

"Julie Pissarro 1838-1926"...more Pissarro.

Two days ago, I discovered this discussion. I read this book years ago, and no longer have it in my possession (I've downsized several times, and furnished a ton of books to several libraries along the way).

I decided to go back and read from the beginning..399 postings, and it took a while, but I wanted to see what had been discussed.

I also wondered if any of you had seen the PBS series on Art about a week or ten days ago. (Channel 13 comes out of Dallas in my area of East Texas), I tuned in about 15 minutes late on the program titled EXPRESSIONIST. It was wonderful, covering most of their lives briefly (starting with Pissarro) but concentrated on so many of their paintings, and the photography was close up, and wonderful. It also covered their disappointment of the first big show.

I noticed it came on again, at 3 a.m. so I set my VCR to catch the full hour, only to find out later, that it was a second part of the show. This one covered the Impressionists after they were finally accepted in Paris. I knew about these Exhibts....but I didn't know as much about success of their Exhibit in New York.

A couple of days later, I taped a 3 a.m. hour on Van Gough. These programs were very well done, and you would have enjoyed seeing them. I hope they were or will be available in your area. Watch for them.

Now Eloise is trying to get the discussion going again after the Holiday. So time to get back to the subject.

Sun

"Pissarro's letter to Théodore Duret

In early 1871 Pissarro wrote to his friend, the critic Théodore Duret.

"I am only here for a very little time. My intention is to return to France as soon as possible. Yes, my dear Duret, I shall not stay here, and it is only when you are abroad that you realise how beautiful, great and hospitable is France. What a difference is here. You only get disdain, indifference, and even rudeness; among one's confreres jealousy and the most selfish mistrust. Here there is no such thing as art; everything is treated as a matter of business.

As for selling, I have done nothing, except that Durand-Ruel bought two small pictures from me. My painting does not catch on, not in the least, a fate that pursues me more or less everywhere.

Please give père Martin a good handshake from me, also his wife. How I long for everything to be settled and for Paris to come into its own again."

That is so sad, it brings tears to my eyes. Why do we appreciate what's good only after it's gone?

JoanP, You said: "No talk of Christmas - or Chanukah - ever. I wonder how they managed. Maybe they didn't celebrate either one - that would eliminate some of the stress!! Julie doesn't seem to regret leaving behind her Catholic upbringing".

Perhaps the author didn't want to dwell on that subject. Probably because the couple had a different religious background it would have been difficult to transmit a deep and durable faith to the children if Julie was Catholic and Camille Jewish. Although French people claim to belong to a religion, they don't attend church very much.

Thank you Emma Barb for the link and as you see some letters reveal the accuracy of Irving Stone's writing and how documented he was.

Sunknow, I didn't see the PBS program you mention but I will watch it if it is comes to Montreal.

We have discussed the kindness and gentleness of Pissarro. I think Pissarro can also be called wise.

"When you put all your soul into a work, all that is noble in you, you cannot fail to find a kindred soul who understands you, and you do not need a host of such spirits."

I suppose the many rejections Pissarro faced at the exhibitions gave him this insight. Perhaps, these are the type of words or thoughts that gave him the determination to continue and not give up.

I am overwhelmed with the kindness of Durand Ruel throughout the years. He was always there to give his help to the artists. He never became fatiqued with sacrificing to help the Impressionists.

I am still behind in my reading. I am enjoying the book so much. My book print is small. I think this has slowed down my reading. There are posts I need to catch up on too. Please excuse my slowness.

one not only gets used to it but comes to expect it. that's why artists should all have good agents to take some of the heat. the biggest problem is the ignorance of the possible buyers. They buy for really dumb reasons, the color of the new couch , the size of a frame they already own and I've know a person to trim a water color to fit. . .the public is ignorant about what it takes to make art and not interesting in learning. The only way to really learn is to try to do it , deal with the attributes involved. We, artists, appreciate each other because we deal with similar problems which makes us something of elitists when it comes to viewing the field. That can't be helped but makes us arrogant. Unlike Pissarro who was community oriented

It's easy to dislike an artist except for the ones who have learned to sell themselves as interesting characters. . .and I guess we are . . .characters .. .it takes some individuality and shrugging off of the cultures expectations to even stick with it.

I expect to be discovered in three hundred years. at least some of the ceramics may last that long.

claire

I agree with Claire the "general public" really doesn't know what they want and if an artist tried to keep up with what they "think" they want the artist would be insane by the end. That's why I think that the artist or writer etc has to create his craft for himself and not anyone else.

Having been an artist's wife I did understand my husband's desire to create because I had it as well in wanting to write, but I also understood that if we didn't put food on the table we might starve. Sometimes you have to put aside your own desires for the sake of the family especially when there are children involved.

Paul Gauguin was a successful stockbroker during week-days who spent holidays painting with Pissarro and Cezanne until he was driven to paint full time. This of course frustated his wife Mette who expected Gauguin to provide for his family like her parents did for their own children.

But Julie did not have the same background as Mette so she didn't really get frustrated by not having anything because her own childhood was like that. She did however put aside her own desires in order to raise her children and provide for them in the best way she could. When they were first married she worked making flowers to make money something I doubt Mette would have done.

Do you suppose that Pissarro would have left Julie if she had acted like Mette?

I've often been grateful to be a woman because my husband although he was a teacher and we didn't have much, took on the responsibility and I could do as I pleased. Nowadays it takes two such incomes to get bye.

I did turn it to commercial use as in architectural illustration and drafting but too late for me as I was almost fifty when I left my husband, possible because I inherited income. If not for that I'd be clerking somewhere even now. STARVING artist is very much to the point.

Scrawler, yes of course you know what it is to live with an artist don't you? Are they constantly looking for motifs? Perhaps as a writer, (I know you have published a book) you often see story material everywhere you go. We discussed Paul Gauguin by Sumerset Maugham a while ago and even if I like his Tahitian paintings, as a man he was very different than Pissarro in every way. He left his family, perhaps because his wife didn't like her husband to be a painter, who knows, but also he reminded me of Vincent Van Gogh. There was something very strange about their extreme behavior.

JoanP. You will enjoy the grandchildren I know. Julie reprimanded all the men in her house for choosing such unpaying employment, but wait, you will see that she will be rewarded for her efforts and patience in the end. When I went to Paris I didn't have enough time to go to Père Lachaise cemetery unfortunately. I guess you can spend a day there visiting the illustrious last resting place.

Claire, I know how frustrating it must be for an artist not to be able to sell their work, but I think people buy art when they are in abundance, but if the budget is tight, it's not a priority.

Safe travels, Joan P - where in TN do you go to visit your grandchildren?

Seurat

Have any of you seen the original La Grande Jatte in a museum? The way it's described I picture it as taking up a great deal of wall space. I find myself looking closely at the painting trying to see dabs or points of color, one pure color lying beside another pure color. To me it seems as though it would take a very long time to paint in such a way. I get the impression that Pissarro was fascinated with Pointillism. Is it a scientific way of painting?

JoanP, have a grand time with your grandchildren. I made a gingerbread house from one of those kits for my grandchildren. It really looked like a gingerbread house. I will do better next time. My chimney was a bit crooked.

Hi MaryZ.

Hello MaryZ and Hats, I don't remember if La Grande Jatte was in the Musée D'Orsey when I was there, I saw so many large paintings of the Impressionsts and I was overwhelmed by them. But, looking at several La Grande Jatte images I can see all the minute dots of color. It does look like a scientific method, I don't look at art that way, I can only rely on my gut feeling about art and I don't wish it to go beyond that because that is the method that works best for me.

Seurat died young, in his thirties, so he could have gone beyond Pointillism had he lived longer because if we look at Picasso who died in his 90s progressed constantly during all his life and so did Pissarro.

An American bequeathed A Sunday in the Park on the Island of La Grande Jatte to the Louvre.

Eloise, Seurat died a very young man. I could never use a scientific method either to look at a painting. I like your method, Eloise.

"...rely on my gut feeling about art and I don't wish it to go beyond that because that is the method that works best for me."

La Grand Jatte is not in Paris. It is in the permanent collection of the Art Institute in Chicago. Seurat died at the age of 31 from diptheria.

I am still having Christmas at my house. So I am very busy and do not have alot of time to spend here. I am sorry for this but my family has had difficulty in all getting together at one time this year . So I will be having another big party at my house this coming weekend.

Will try to get back here later today. Have a wonderful time with the grands in TN, Joan P.

Joan Grimes

I loved that link and the article that accompanied it. I'd love to see that show. All I have to do is to go to Chicago? shucks. . .not likely but I'd appreciate all the accompanying material. her it is again.

http://tinyurl.com/y69tup

Claire

Joan, don't give it back to the French, they already have enough Impressionists (I think).

When I first saw a print of La Grande Jatte it sort of jarred me because the people represented were standing straight as a dye, were well groomed, those standing still were stiff, those apparently moving like the dog, still looked stiff. It's not the dots that bother me, I have seen other Pointillist paintings that have movement but this one seems unfinished, too sharply defined, the shadows are not all aligned to the sun, not enough shadow under the trees, I don't know, I can't explain it very well.

I don't think Seurat can be compared with Michaelangelo, but selling it to America certainly helped ALL the Impressionists who were so destitute, America recognized their value because America is YOUNG, they aren't doubtful and contrary like the French are.

Pissarro had to try Seurat's Pointillism if he wanted to earn some money, but his long method of applying paint to canvas his own way could not be dislodged just because someone else was having success with a new style. Can we blame him for trying.

Many Impressionists who weren't happily married like Pissarro died young, the stability of a good marriage kept him healthy into his old age.

the very thing that you disliked about that painting appealed to my professor who pointed out the attention paid to design and form and as a result brought it closer to Cezanne and the post impressionists.

It depends of what you are looking for. realism isn't the issue here although it works for that. I love Sondheim's song SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE, what is that show? That may be the title even. I've just heard it all on TV. He's so clever.

Claire, are you asking me if I know that song? No, I don't know it.

I really like some of Cézanne paintings and Gauguin, less Van Gogh though and very very few of Picasso. I guess that says it all for my taste in art, I don't care for modern music either unless it has no drums.

PAUL CÉZANNE 1839 - 1906. " Moi vivant , jamais une oeuvre de Cézanne n'entrera au Musée" déclara Pontier, le nouveau conservateur du Musée d'Aix. Et il tiendra parole !. Nous sommes en 1901. "While I am alive a painting by Cézanne will never enter the Museum, declared Pontier, the new 'conservateur' of the Aix Museum. He kept his word! We are in 1901."

When Lucien wanted to get married even if he was penniless Camille thought: "His own fear was that Lucien had never made a living, nor had he created a volume of work which showed promise of future earnings. He would have to support Lucien and Sterbee, as Rachel and Frederic had supported him. His mind filled with an irony turned more against himself than against his son."

Like father like son, I am wondering if he was surprised that his children wanted to be like him. But in the end, Camille's work would support all his family provided he continued his paintings which sold at higher and higher prices.

First of all, thank you for all the warm Xmas and New Year greetings, I am glad I am part of this family! I would never have read the book if it wasnt on our list and I am so glad I did. I have always loved their paintings but I had no idea they were in such dire financial straits and to think of what you would have to pay for one now! Julie was an absolute saint, he was so lucky to have found her. Another thing I liked - the writers of that time -Baudelaire (never liked him, he said horrible things about women) My very good friend Zola and his defence of Dreyfus George Moore - I reread Esther Waters recently and I have a small book of Manet with plates of Zola, Moore, Berthe Morisot, Theodore Duret etc. Thank you for a great experience

Wainey, I have enjoyed this experience too. Irving Stone wrote about so many great artists in this one book. Irving Stone also included the wives, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons of these artists. Including the family and friends of these magnificent artists gave me a wider view of their lives.

I did read Lust for Life years ago. I enjoyed the movie too. So, I had some familiarity with Vincent Van Gogh. Unfortunately, too often I have only heard about the cutting off of the ear. I didn't remember him committing suicide.

I do love Vincent Van Gogh's paintings. When I look at any of his paintings, I can feel the intensity and fierceness of his spirit. Too work so hard with his illness is another example of passion and great determination. Pissarro also continued to work while his eye grew steadily worse.

Vincent Van Gogh

The relationship between Theo Van Gogh and Vincent Van Gogh also struck me. Such deep love between two brothers is wonderful and worthy of remembrance. Unfortunately, Theo couldn't live without his brother Vincent. Not long after Vincent's death, Theo would have a nervous breakdown leaving his wife, Jo, to go on alone. I have always wanted to read the letters of the two brothers.

I found CAFÉ DE LA TERRASSE À ARLES in your link Hats one of my favorite paintings. I went through some sub-links and found a large collection of works by Van Gogh and have to admit that I had only seen very little of this painter before. Most of them about sunflowers and self portrait. Yes, the cutting of his ear is always brought out when someone mentions him, fascinating artist.

Eloise, I am glad you liked the link. Many of those paintings are new to me too, no surprise there. I have only a few pages to read. I hate for the book to end. My thanks to you and Joan.

Eloise, I love that painting too. It looks like a friendly cafe I could visit on a starry night.

Good Morning Everyone,

It has been a pleasure to read and discuss this wonderful book.

Since you are talking about Van Gogh, I thought that I would post a few photos that I took on my trip to France this past October.


The graves of Vincent Van Gogh and his brother.


The church at Auvers sur Oise.


The same church as Van Gogh painted it.

The photo of the painting of the church is just a photo of a poster. Here is a link to the painting on the Web

Painting of Church at Auvers sur Oise

JoanGrimes, thanks very much for posting the photos. I happened to see the church painting on a link. At the time, I thought it was just a house or building. Thank you for showing the photo of The church at Auvers sur Oise. The architecture of the church is beautiful. I can't imagine how you felt standing before the graves of Theo and Vincent Van Gogh. Just seeing the graves here gives me goosebumps. Thank you so much. I am glad the two brothers are buried so close to one another.

When we are close to genius Hats it affects me too even at their grave sites. Thank you JoanG for posting your photos of that great artist. How thrilling it must have been for you.

I have to get back to bed, I have a slight flu, very unusual for me, so I might not have the energy to send this discussion off on a grand scale, but I will try. We still have 2 days left.

You have all been so fabulous I can't tell you how much I loved this discussion with all of you. Please continue on and I will try my best to follow you.

Happy New Year and may 2007 give you good health and happiness throughout the year. Thank you my friends for sharing this time with me, I loved every minute of it.

"Van Gogh spent his early life as an art dealer, teacher and preacher in England, Holland and Belgium. His period as an artist began in 1880 and lasted for a decade, initially with work in sombre colours, until an encounter in Paris with Impressionism and Neo-Impressionism accelerted his artistic development. He produced all of his work, some 900 paintings and 1100 drawings, during the last ten years of his life. Most of his best-known work was produced in the final two years of his life, and in the two months before his death he painted 90 pictures. Following his death, his fame grew slowly, helped by the devoted promotion of it by his widowed sister-in-law.

Largely self-taught, his work was startlingly innovative from the begining. Neither his early realist work, though close to the Dutch tradition, nor his later impressionist phase met contemporary expectations. His depictions of everyday life showed a highly personal use of media, marked by a bold and distorted draughtsmanship, and visible dotted or dashed brush marks, sometimes in swirling or wave-like patterns, which are intensely yet subly coloured. Since his death in 1890, van Gogh has been acknowledged as a pioneer of what came to be known as Expressionism and has had an enormous influence on 20th century art, especially on the Fauves and German Expressionsts, and with a line that continues through the Abstract Expressionism of Willem de Kooning and the British painter Francis Bacon.

The central figure in Vincent van Gogh's life was his brother Theo, an art dealer with the firm of Goupil & Cie, who continually and selflessly provided financial support. Their lifelong friendship is documented in numerous letters they exchanged from August 1872 onwards, which were published in 1914, by Johanna van Gogh-Bonger. Theo's widow, who generously supported most of the early Van Gogh exhibitions with loans from the artist's estate also supported the artists.

In May 1890, Vincent went to the physician Dr. Paul Gachet, in Auvrs-sur-Oie near Paris, where he was closer to his brother Theo. Dr. Gachet had been recommended to him by Pissarro, as he had previously treated several artists and was an amateur artist himself. Van Gogh's first impression was that Gachet was "sicker than I am, I think, or shall we say just as much."

...There is no direct evidence that he [Vincent van Gogh] ever took digitalis, but he did paint Gachet with some cut flower stalks of Common Foxglove, the plant from which the drug is derived. Those who take large doses of digitalis often report yellow-tinted vision or yellow spots surrounded by coronas, like those in "The Starry Night." ~ Wikipedia

Here's another example of a brother who was willing to support his artist-brother in helping financially.

I was surprised to learn that Van Gogh painted 90 pictures in just two months before his death.

I think of all his paintings my favorites were "The Starry Night" and "Cafe Terrace at Night."

a complete show. the colors just smack you in the eye. fabulous. I like the song to written during the the folk period of pop music.

claire

Claire, the colors do "smack you in the eye." Scrawler, thank you for more interesting material about Vincent Van Gogh. Eloise, I hope you will feel better soon. Thank you JoanP and Scrawler for telling about Van Gogh and Expressionism.

I am so glad to have read this book and participated in this discussion. It has been a joy to do this review of impressionist painters.

I was surprised by the portrait of Julie. As I always do, I had visualized the characters in the book. I saw Julie as a much larger woman, probably because she was so such a strong, industrious person. Instead she was really very dainty.

Julie was certainly a wonderful woman. raising vegetables, rabbits and chickens to nourish her large family and making artificial flowers to bring in extra income. My hat is off to her, as it is to many working woman of today.



Juanita Millican

I am glad that you liked the photos. I have some more taken at Auvers sur Oise and will try to post them too. I also want to post some more of Monet's Gardens. I would like to post some of those I took on the October trip. I will try to do that later.

Joan Grimes

Joan Grimes ~ how wonderful those photos are you posted re Van Gogh, especially since I will never get to visit there in person. Many thanks.
It's interesting that Vincent and Theodore are side by side in death. I believe Theo died shortly after his brother.
I have never seen the Van Gogh painting of the church at Auvers sur Oise.

I've always enjoyed Van Gogh's "Sunflower" painting. I have an enamel sunflower pin that was fashioned after his painting and I also have a silk scarf of this painting. I enjoy wearing them both. Oh and I almost forgot...I love his "Irises" painting.

Éloïse De Pelteau ~ I hope you get better soon from the flu. Hope you're able to rest and get your energy back. Take care.

I like the song "Starry Starry Night" after Van Gogh's painting.

Hi Emmabarb, I missed you. I thought you might have caught a bug. I bet that silk scarf is lovely.

JoanP. how absolutely lovely the Starry Night and the Yellow House are, thank you, thank you.

JoanG, you too, it is very rare that two brothers are as close as Theo and Vincent were. Theo knew about his brother's illness and also about his genius, protected him and helped him all he could even if Vincent was a very difficult man.

In the end Pissarro could see the light at the end of the rainbow: "Portier was selling a painting to an American for the astronomical price of three thousand dollars. The prices for all of their works had risen to a respectable level." I am so happy that at least Pissarro disn't die penniless.

I wish I could have posted many more of those fabulous painting by Impressionists, but I have seen several of them I had never seen before thanks to all of you. My understanding of art has been enriched, thank you.

There is so much I don't know about Art. I didn't know about Monet's Cathedral series. Irving Stone writes about Pissarro's trip in May to see the paintings by Monet.

"In May he had gone to see a show of Monet's Cathedrals, a series from Rouen, and was carried away by their extraordinary deftness."

Almost all of you have personal experiences with Art. I have enjoyed seeing the photos, hearing about your experiences as artists, etc. I am glad you allowed me to be a part of this forum. I could bring nothing to the table accept the world opened to me by Irving Stone.

Monet's Cathedrals

Claire

EmmaBarb, I have seen "in person" the Van Gogh irises that you pictured. It is smaller than I would have imagined, but absolutely incredible. And what makes the painting great (to me) is a tiny drop of red under the iris leaves in the lower right center. I had never seen it in any of the reproductions, and it truly makes the painting glow.

One question that I have was brought up by the Sunflower pin that was mentioned. What do you suppose the Impressionists would have felt about all the "things" that have been made from their art work. Especially, Monet's paintings can be seen in various forms from apparel and accessories to serving trays etc. I also have a few of these items since sometimes they are cheaper than reproductions of the paintings.

"Emile Zola was an influential French novelist, the most important example of the literary school of naturalism and a major figure in the political liberalization of France.

...As he described his plans for the series, "I want to portray, at the outset of a century of liberty and truth, a family that cannot restrain itself in its rush to possess all the good things that progress is making available and is derailed by its own momentum, the fatal convulsions that accompany the birth of a new world."

Zola and the painter Paul Cezanne were friends from childhood and in youth, but broke in later life over Zola's fictionalized depiction of Cezanne and the bohemian life of painers in his novel..."The Masterpiece" 1886.

He risked his career and even his life on 13 January, 1898, when his "J'accuse" was published on the front page of Paris Daily, L'Aurore. "J'accuse" accused the French govenment of anti-Semitism and of wrongfully placing Alfred Dreyfus in jail. Zola was brought to trial for libel on 7 February 1898, and was convicted on 23 February. Zola declared that the conviction and transportation to Devil's Island of the Jewish army captain Alfred Dreyfus came from a false accusation of espionage and was a miscarriage of justice. The case, known as the Dreyfus Affair, had divided France deeply between the reactionary army and church and the more liberal commercial society. The ramifications continued for years, so much so that on the 100th anniversary of Emile Zola's article, France's Roman Catholic daily paper, La Croix, apologized for its anti-Semitic editorials during the Dreyfus Affair.

Quotes:

"Let us never forget the courage of a great writer who, taking every risk, putting his tranquility, his fame, even his life in peril, dared to pick up his pen and place his talent in the service of truth." -- Jacques Chirac.

"Zola descends into the sewer to bathe in it, I to cleanse it." -- Henrik Ibsen

"Civilization will not attain to its perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest." -- Emile Zola

If I remember correctly the anti-Semitism by some of Pissarro's fellow artists when the Dryfus Affair came up greatly disturbed him.

there were wonderful things to paint. Nothing is old here. the missions perhaps but they are redundant not to interesting and not too different from one another. Claire in CA

the women who don't have to support themselves with it care but the men are for the most part either a-political or conservative. . . cna't be bothered. but these are the ones I know personally in this time and this culture. Other times and other places generalizations can't be made.

I like the rosy glow and it's nicely painted but something about it bothers me. At first from the other print I thought an sixth grade kid could do this it's naive but it's technically too good for that I can see in the second version so what is it. It has that very dark curve from left to right I guess bothers me and the whole thing feels somehow much weaker. the fathers work hangs together more, is more unified or something. anyhow if this were his it would be one of his less successful efforts, IMHO. Claire

and blocked out that dark curve on the pictures riht. the whole thing came together, so that's the problem. hmmm. . .claire

Someone looked at my page and sent me a very well structured analysis of one of my computer art efforts that was never ever meant to be but worked out very nicely for him. us viewers have our ways of looking and enjoying. At lease he cared. . .Claire

The Dreyfus affair was a major issue and most people took sides. It divided Degas and Mary Cassatt forever, a friendship of 25 years. WW11 gave us an example of what racism causes and we shall never forget it.

Claire, I thought that too about Lucien's Snow Scene, it's the curved dark hedge that doesn't seem right. Perhaps Lucien did not work as hard as his father did and one thing too, I find that he tries to imitate Camille's style instead of finding a style of his own. His nude scene seems fine though. As an aside, artists models were all well rounded in those days, not like today's fashion models who have to look anorexic to be chosen to walk on a runway.

I am glad to see the painting of Lucien. When Lucien had the stroke, it was very sad. Then, Felix contracted Tuberculosis. Julie couldn't help but think of her mother in law, Rachel, she saw the death of six children.

The Dreyfus case is very interesting. I am glad it was decided to Pardon Alfred Dreyfus. The Jewish people suffered greatly during this time becoming a scapegoat for French problems. It seemed odd because there weren't many Jewish people living in France at the time. This was a hard time to live through for the Pissarro's.

was eclectic. got bitten by Cezanne and Renior but did it very nicely. He had ability as I see it. Did he ever get a style of his own?

claire

Scrawler, thank you for all the quotes.

Alfred Dreyfus proved to be a very strong man in principles. He didn't take the pardon.

"Captain Dreyfus refused the pardon, demanded the restoration of his military decorations and the right to march in the courtyard of the Ecole Militaire in renewed uniform and rank before the men previously under his command. It would be done."

We have gone through 50 years in the life of Camille Pissarro. I truly believed that Irving Stone was fond of his hero not just because of Pissarro's contribution to the arts, but also as a person. Irving Stone was also Jewish and we can feel the affinity he had for the painter, most often describing him in a positive light.

The novel starts as young Camille arrives in Paris and aside from a few flashbacks in the Carribeans the rest of the book takes place in France. Irving Stone knows the country very well and his description of life in Paris makes you feel like if you were sitting down with the Impressionists at the café and at the galleries. We could feel the painter's fatigue, discouragement, happiness and finally contentment towards the end of his life.

Camille goes to the Exposition Universelle in 1955 when he was 25 and how can a painter not be overwhelmed by all the art that was displayed there. He was immediately hooked. 45 years later he goes to the 1900 Exposition still awestruck by the artwork displayed there, but by this long and arduous time, his paintings instead of selling for a few dollars now brought in thousands. A just reward.

How many paintings had he painted during those years? Does anybody know?

MaryZ ~ you have me curious, now I must look for the tiny drop of red in the Van Gogh irises painting as I don't recall seeing it. Van Gogh did another painting of a vase of irises that I love (I did a pastel of it) click here
Monet's poppies is another painting I really like and it's not as popular as his lily pond.

Joan Pearson ~ That's a wonderful photo of the medieval streets of Rouen...all the different architecture is amazing.
Thanks for the painting by Lucian Pissarro and I do think his father influenced him a great deal. Do you know how old he was when he painted it ? His second son reminds me of his father's work. I think I've seen that bather before...by another artist ?

Scrawler ~ I'll bet those Impressionists would be really wealthy if they still had the copyright to those commercial reproductions of their art. I wonder who does...have the copyright ? It comes to mind that if it's over 100-yrs then the copyright has run out. Does anyone know about this ?

I have enjoyed reading all the posts and seeing the wonderful photos in this discussion. Thanks to everyone !

EmmaBarb, in this reproduction , there's more red in the background flowers and in the lower left "dirt" than I remember seeing in the original. The spot that I was talking about is just below and to the right of the center, in the small triangle formed by some iris leaves. In the original the bit is quite a bright red (as I remember). Does that help?

yes those colors are all wrong. the blues are soft and greyed as I remember and the whole thing much lighter. poster galleries really mess with the colors. Joan's picture of the bridge has nice colors in it. . . . claire

MaryZ ~ that appears to me to be background dirt as in the rest of the painting but perhaps a bit more of the red color was used.
As Claire said, the gallery posters and reproduction colors are quite often all wrong.

It's amazing what you see for sale from catalogs, the Chicago Art Institute for example. Apparently they have permission to reproduce original art they have in their possession into all kinds of merchandise. Their last catalog even had a Starry Night silk tie. It bothers me that they take privledge with adding a santa-claus to an original painting and make it into a Christmas card for sale.

”The Franco-Prussian war began in 1870. The Germans captured Paris and claimed the Alsace and Lorraine regions of France. Following the defeat, Napoleon III was exiled. The Third Republic emerged in France in 1871, indicating the end of monarchy in France. Industrial expansion continued during this time, and a portable movie camera was invented. The Eiffel Tower was constructed during the Universal Exhibition of 1889 in order to commemorate the centennial of the French Revolution. Its construction was very controversial at the time, although now the Tower is one of the most well-known and frequently visited monuments in France. The nineteenth century in France is also renowned for its cultural contributions, including the paintings of the Impressionists, the Art Nouveau style, the novelist Flaubert and the satirist Zola.”

FRANCE'S HISTORY TIMELINE

At the time of the Impressionists, France had only just ousted the hated Monarchy ruling France for a century. The ground was fertile for a new beginning, the Industrial Revolution was breaking the chains of a greedy and corrupt monarchy. People felt free to create and invent, artists felt the urge to paint, writers the urge to write and industrialists the urge to produce. People were getting ready for a new beginning, they went to the Exposition Universelle in droves, observed the new inventions, admired the works of art.

The obvious American Democracy was a role model for the Old Country where Monarchs had fallen deep into corruption. It’s no wonder that Americans were one of the first to purchase paintings by Impressionists. They could understand the shedding of old movements in art to embrace the new one. Still it’s more than an ocean that separates the continents, it’s a whole way of life.

HAPPY NEW YEAR DEAR FRIENDS

Thank you for your wonderful participation in Depths of Glory, you can't imagine how I have enjoyed this discussion. You were all wonderful, I hope to see you again in other discussions and don't forget to log onto "Women in White" that Joan P mentioned.

The discussion will still be open for a couple of days if you want to post.

I'm not an expert in art but I felt Lucien's "Snow Scene" seemed off-balanced and not in harmony. Camille's paintings always seemed to be in harmony and thus they were pleasing to the eye. George's paintings I thought also showed harmony and balance.

I've learned a lot about the Impressionists from this discussion and I appreciated all the wonderful posts. I still, however, prefer the art of Picasso and Van Gogh. To each his own I guess.

The times in which Camille Pissarro lived were reflected in what Emile Zola described as his plans for his writing: "...I want to portray, at the outset of a century of liberty and truth, a family that cannot restrain itelf in its rush to possess all the good things that progress is making available and is derailed by its own momentum, the fatal convulsions that accompany the birth of a new world." A new world that owed itself partly to the art of the Impressionists.

Thank you for a wonderful discussion.

Happy New Year!

I too have enjoyed this discussion. All of the comments, the lovely photos and beautiful paintings are unforgettable. The month of December, a wonderful month anyway, became more delightful as we read and talked about Pissarro and the other Impressionists.

At the end of the book Irving Stone writes Camille Pissarro was completely satisfied with the ups and downs of his life. Pissarro had no regrets.

"He was content. In July he would celebrate his seventieth birthday. Fortunate is the artist who finds beauty in nature."

EmmaBarb, I don't disagree with what you say about the commercialization that a museum makes of the art it owns. On the other hand, a museum has to get enough money from somewhere to keep its doors open, so we can enjoy looking at the art. It costs a whole lot of money to keep that art on display. I guess it's a balancing act.

That card is so lovely Joan, thank you so much for your New Year's Wishes.

I wish all of you my friends a HAPPY NEW YEAR, may it bring you health and good cheer. Let's hope and pray for PEACE ON EARTH and for soldiers to all come home to their family.

Joan, thank you for such a lovely card. The colors on your card are like a painter's palette. I am partial to bells too. I had a wreath of bright green bells hanging on my front door for the holidays. I have used those bells for three years.

JoanP, I love your word "sparkling." The discussion did sparkle, unforgettable.

Thanks Hats. I came across a photo that I had taken about four years ago and decided it would make a nice card. So I opened my paintshop spro 8 software on my computer and with a little of matching colors for the Happy New Year text and border for the photo and then adding the text and border I had what I decided was a passable card. I love doing that kind of thing, although I have not done much of it for the last two years since my husband passed away but think I might devote some of my time to doing that again.

This discussion of the book about Pissarro has been such a pleasure to me. I really enjoyed the book and the discussion. I wish that it could go on for longer but know that it cannot. I was so busy with the three Holiday parties that I had at my house for my family that I was not able to spend as much time making comments here as I would have liked.

Thanks to all who took part in the discussion.

Joan Grimes

I will miss this discussion, it was nice to talk about nature, painting, art. I keep clicking on the painting in the heading to enlarge it and look at details, the hill, the woman with her little girl, which was not so obvious at first, the colors on the water. The perspective is superb.

Marjorie did a good job on the heading, thanks Marjorie, thanks Joan G and participants, we shall do it again some day yes?

Éloïse

Hi - am back from holiday just in time to say HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL and to start reading a couple of hundred posts!!

Saw a small collection of paintings at the Art Gallery of NSW in Sydney by some of the artists Stone writes about in Depths of Glory. Wonderful stuff - only one Pisarro though- 'Peasants Houses at Eragny' (1887) is just full of light ( and air). Also on display were Fantin Latour - La Toilette antique (1902) and Flowers and Fruit (1866) - these two could have been by two separate artists so different from one another - Courbet's Landscape with Stag (1873) was stunning - several others eg Monet, Salle, Lautrec etc. One by Pisarro's first 'master' Corot 'Le Vieux pont'