Traude and I look forward to this discussion, and hope that you will join us. Although this winning selection received many votes, we still need a quorum. This discussion is open to all SeniorNetters; it's not limited to those who have participated in RATW.

Ladies, I'd like to point out to you some real fine print -- if you look at the bottom left of the photo. It's clickable and it takes you to the website of the man who took the background photo for our heading. He has given us permission to use it. If you then click on "My World" you'll see all the places where he has travelled, including India. Some wonderful photos there.

His name is Pini Vollach and he is from Haifa.

Muddyknees -- A BIG welcome to you -- so glad you have found your way to SeniorNet. We're looking forward to having you take part in our discussion.

For those of you who do not yet have the book, you might luck out with a used book store. We only have one used book store of any merit in town, and by golly, they had two copies -- one for $4 and one for $5.50. Both in excellent condition. If anyone likes, I can check when I get home again -- this coming week -- and see if they still have the $5.50. Postage would probably not exceed a couple dollars? Let me know.

Please feel free, all of you, to comment as much as you like this month, as long as it is not about the actual happenings in the book. I'll be in and out, as will Traude also, but it seems September has brought many new beginnings that must be attended to.

We will be putting up a schedule shortly. It may be that we will run into November a bit, due to the length of the book. For now we'll play it by ear.

I'm a little confused and perhaps you can straighten me out. Are Zoroastrians the same as Parsees? The article states that Parsees are descendants of Zoroastrians. Can one use the names interchangeably

In order to fully understand the characters in "A Fine Balance", their lives, their actions and reactions, we may also want to check, briefly, what India was like in 1975, historically, and socially, and examine the class system.

No doubt many of you have already visited the site below, which gives an overview of the history of the republic of India. It's easy to narrow your reading by clicking on the 1970s or Emergency, in the box on the left of the page. The suggestion was made earlier, a good one, that we might want some background on the events of 1975. Please don't hesitate to share other links you may have found. If need be, we can always attach a links page.

History of the Republic of India

Traude, I loved the God of Small Things, although it's been quite a while since I read it, and the things I remember are rather strange. Like the little boy's "puff" which was so carefully arranged each day. I've seen that again in another book -- was it AFB? The other thing I remember about Small Things is reading it in tandem with Poisonwood Bible, which I started while visiting my daughter in a Mayan village in Guatemala, where she was involved in community development. In the two books and the country, they all wore these horrible plastic shoes. (I said my memories would be strange )

I'm rereading it because, along with Traude, I'm one of the discussion leaders. There are others here, who, like you, are reading it for the first time. Enjoy.

Jackrussel -- so glad to see you here, and looking forward to your participation.

Glad to see some familiar faces popping up again. I'm really looking foward to this discussion. You all should have received an email from me by now, EXCEPT, that I haven't finished or sent it -- yet. It will be coming, has some thoughts for the beginnings of our discussion. I'm sure you all have questions about this first section coming up. Bring them.

This first week we'll limit our discussion to the events of the prologue and books I and II. In these chapters we first meet the four principals of the novel, with the focus on the one female, Dina Dalai.

What are your first impressions of these people?
Dina especially. What strikes you about her family relations and her relations with the three men who come to her apartment?
Do you know enough about them to have any strong feelings?
Why do you suppose the author does not tell us the name of the "city by the sea" or of the "prime minister?"
What about the historical background of novel? Anything you can share will be welcome and will aid in our understanding of the story.

__________________________________________________________

This evening's news had a recap about the July bombing of the trains in Mumbai (Bombay) which in turn brought to mind the films I've seen about India showing people on a very crowded train -- remember Passage to India -- showing a very slow moving train with passengers literally hanging out the windows? That's the scene I envisioned at the beginning of the Prologue, where Maneck meets Om and Ishvar, on this very crowded train that is barely bumping along, which is then stopped because "another" body is on the track. Mistry lets us know very early on that there are problems in the government , an emergency.

Maneck is a "nice Parsi boy," who quickly understands his new impoverished, but proud friends, has concerns about taking over Dina Aunty's bedroom. What's your take on Dina -- we see her as a defiant teenager, as a young woman who spurns her brother's plans for her marriage and chooses her own groom, and now as a rather fearful woman, nevertheless determined to be a survivor.

"What had once seemed a remote possibility took place on June 25, 1975: the president declared an Emergency and the government suspended civil rights. Because the nation's president, Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed (1974-77), and Gandhi's own party members in Parliament were amenable to her personal influence, Gandhi had little trouble in pushing through amendments to the constitution that exonerated her from any culpability, declaring President's Rule in Gujarat and Tamil Nadu where anti-Indira parties ruled, and jailing thousands of her opponents. In her need to trust and confide in someone during this extremely trying period, she turned to her younger son, Sanjay, who became an enthusiastic advocate of the Emergency. Under his watchful eyes, forced sterilization as a means of birth control was imposed on the poor, increased numbers of urban squatters and slum dwellers in Delhi were evicted in the name of beautification projects, and disgruntled workers were either disciplined or their wages frozen. The Reign of Terror, as some called it, continued until January 18, 1977, when Gandhi suddenly relaxed the Emergency, announced the next general election in March, and released her opponents from prison."



INDIRA GANDHI

"14 August, 1947, saw the birth of the new Islamic Republic of Pakistan. At midnight the next day India won its freedom from colonial rule, ending nearly 350 years of British presence in India. During the struggle for freedom, Gandhi had written an appeal 'To Every Briton' to free their possessions in Asia and Africa, especially India (Philips and Wainwright, 567). The British left India divided in two. The two countries were founded on the basis of religion, with Pakistan as an Islamic state and India as a secular one."


THE PARTITION OF INDIA
Note the timeline

What surprised me about this book is Mistry's totally detached, matter-of-fact narration of horrible human suffering, age-old prejudices, patronizing attitudes and grave civil injustice.

We don't know why Mistry did not name the city or the Prime Minister, about whose identity there can be no doubt. Perhaps he wanted to first describe the characters and their background and how it influenced their thinking and their actions.

So far Parsis/Parsees were mentioned; we have yet to learn that Ishwar and Om are Untouchables and what life was like in their village before they set off for the city. The author merely shows and tells and leaves the analyzing to the reader.

To summarize again : Indira Ghandi was riding the crest of popularity after India's triumph over Pakistan in the war of 1971. The explosion of a nuclear device in 1974 helped to enhance her reputation among middle-class Indians of a tough and shrewd political leader.
But soon demonstrations began in Delhi and Northern India because of high inflation, rampant corruption, the poor state of the economy, and extremely low living standards. There were demands for Gandhi's resignation.

Her response was to declare a state of emergency. Her political foes were imprisoned, constitutional rights abrogated and the press placed under strict censorship.
Meanwhile, the elder of her two sons, Sanjay Ghandi, started to run the country as though it were his personal fiefdom, which earned him the fierce hatred of many who were victimized by his policies. He ordered the removal of slum dwellings and, in an attempt to curb India's mushrooming population, initiated a highly resented program of forced sterilization.

In early 1977, Mrs. Gandhi called for new elections, confident that she had debilitated her opposition, but was trounced by a new coalition of several political parties. Her own Congress party lost badly at the polls.
Many thought her days were over, but three years later she would return as Prime Minister of India. The same year, her son Sanjay was killed in an airplane crash.

" What surprised me about this book is Mistry's totally detached, matter-of-fact narration of horrible human suffering, age-old prejudices, patronizing attitudes and grave civil injustice."

Maryg. for sure, I think living by water has an impact on us. I grew up across the street from Lake Michigan and now live in a town on the Mississippi. I'd definitely miss the water if it were not nearby.

" . . . . since Zoroastrianism enjoined equality between the sexes - an imperative which sharply distinguishes it from other eastern religions - Parsi women tended to be at least as well educated as Parsi men. They can also be combative, and it is said that Parsi plays typically depict women as the dominant sex."

Judy S -- if you aren't the sharp one to pick up on that quote fromBalzac -- "this tragedy is not a fiction. All is true>" And what a good point about watching old societies turn into modern ones -- birth pangs and growing pains, always inevitable.

Hats, interesting point about the people from the villages beinglessnumb to their surroundings than those who live in the city.

Mrs S, I can understand Dina standing up to Nusswan every chance she gets, but I don't find him totally inhuman. I don't like him, but I would peg him as being very unsure of himself. He's suddenly in charge of the family, his mother is becoming a mental case, when his sister disobeys him he remembers his father as a strong disciplinarian and tries to emulate him. On top of everything else, he has a horde of relatives always looking over his shoulder.

Laura, that's interesting -- do we need to know about the Emergency? My first reaction is "yes," I'm glad to have that information. But I think I understand what you're asking -- correct me if I'm wrong. Do we really need specifics, or is it enough to know that the author is writing about troubled times, the government is making new rules, people are reacting, and life is becoming harder? Many of us will say, "this is India and I want to know more about it," but you pose an interesting question. Time will tell.

Andara and Judy, thanks for your input about Hinduism. I don't remember. Are Ishvar and Om Hindu?

I am puzzling over the 'verandah.' It's a porch? But I'm thinking it was enclosed years before, to make a playroom for Rustom when he was a child. But Dina has great concerns about people seeing in, finding that she has workers in the house.

And the apartment itself. The same family (theoretically) has rented it for over 40 some years, has even made and paid for structural improvements, yet the toilet will not flush correctly, running water and electricity are only sporadic. This is the face of poverty, to pay and pay, yet never to get or have. Dina seems much better off financially than her two tailors, yet all three live hand to mouth.

Hats, wasn't that a horrible experience for Dina, for Rustom's bicycle to appear 12 years after his death. An example of how this book is such an enigma -- not much thought given to the feelings of the poor widow. Yet other scenes show wonderful examples of caring and compassion. Something to watch for.

Mrs Sherlock, I don't get to see many big screen films, but was fortunate to see Water when visiting the big city. Not a happy show, but definitely worth watching.

Mal, I did not know how different the Parsi religion was, especially in their treatment of women.

Page 39

". . . . set out every Thursday from his small apartment in Prabhadevi on the 45-minute trip to Kala Ghoda, Bombay’s arts and commercial district, and sit there writing, drinking tea, meeting up with friends from the advertising world he was once part of. When, to everyone’s dismay, his favourite café, the Wayside Inn, was replaced by an upmarket Chinese restaurant, he moved to the Military Café, not far away . . ."

From: The View from Malabar Hill

Mistry's decision not to identify the city and the Prime Minister may well have been deliberate, I suspect, because the poverty, suffering and the effects of gross mismanagement were not felt solely by the protagonists in the story but shared by all people in every part of the large Indian subcontinent. They could have happened in any other large Indian city under a different Prime Minister. The story is universal, and it isn't all grim but has its lighter moments too.

Gumtree, what a fascinating analysis of Ibrahim and the folders, comparing both with the history of modern India. We will want a link to your post so we can refer to that again.

Mal, many thanks for your links. I'm sure many will want to read about untouchables before we get into the next section. The tech people are working on getting a links page. It will be coming soon.

Are all Parsis Zoroastrians? Mrs. Sherlock, someone addressed that question some time ago, before the actual discussion even began. I THINK, don't know for sure, that the answer was that all Parsis are Zoroastrians, but not all Zorastrians are Parsis.

No doubt we are all at different stages in our reading here, but I don't think anyone is deliberately trying to jump the gun. Sometimes questions pop out and just as quickly get answered. We know that Dina and Maneck are both Parsis, and will no doubt learn more about Om and Ishvar and their status among the Hindus.

My question goes back to Ibrahim and his "fez." There are times when he feels it is not prudent to wear a fez, especially in a Hindu neighborhood, and I have assumed he is Muslim. He, or the author, also talk about the turbans and the white caps. So, who wears what?

Judy, I think we are posting at the same time, with similar thoughts.

I think the story of Bapsy Aunty, told earlier, was more of an example of how MIstry enriches his works with tales that are important in the moment, but will never connect again. (She was the aunt who forever believed her husband still alive, after he was killed in a WWII explosion.) In this respect MIstry reminds me of Annie Dillard and her novel The Living. Many colorful characters, with minute colorful histories.

"Languages: The most important Indian language, though it is only spoken as a mother tongue by about 20% of the population, mainly in the area known as the Hindi-belt, the cow-belt or Mimaru, which includes Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh. This Indic language is the official language of the Indian government, the states already mentioned, plus Haryana and Himachal Pradesh.

Urdu is the state language of Jammu and Kashmir. Along with Hindi, it evolved in early Delhi. While Hindi was largely adopted by the Hindu population, the Muslims embraced Urdu, and so the latter is written in the Perso-Arabic script and includes many Persian words. An ancient Dravidian language at least 2000 years old, and the state language of Tamil Nadu. It is spoken by 65 million people.Spoken by nearly 200 million people (mostly in what is now Bangladesh), and the state language of West Bengal.

Developed as a language in the 13th century.Kashmiri speakers account for about 55% of the population of Jammu and Kashmir. It is an Indic language written in the Perso-Arabic script.A product of British rule, English is still widely spoken and written in most Indian states 50 years after independence.Over 2000 years old, Kannada is spoken by over twenty million people worldwide and is the official language of the state of Karnataka. Telugu is the Dravidian language spoken by the largest number of people, it is the state language of Andrah Pradesh.

An Indic language dating back to around the 13th century, Marathi is the state language of Maharashtra.State language of Gujarat, it is an Indic language.A Dravidian language, and the state language of Kerala."

80% Hindu, 14% Muslim, 2.4% Christian, 2% Sikh, 0.7% Buddhist, 0.5% Jains, 0.4% other

Currency: Indian Rupee (Rs)

GDP: Approx. Rs2200000000000

SOURCE: LANGUAGES IN INDIA

Mal, your explanation cleared up something for me, regarding URDU. I watched the film Syriana recently, and as always, used the closed captions and/or subtitles. The main languages were English, of course, and Farsi or Arabic -- not sure, but whenever a certain pair of characters appeared, the captions would state -- speaking Urdu. I'm not sure where they were from.

Mary from Seattle, yes, we do see a difference between Maneck and Ishvar and Om.(your post #112) The uncle and nephew are a little leery at first, that Maneck might also be a tailor, ready to do them out of a job. There seems to be a bit of distrustfulness all around. Om thinks Dina is trying to cheat them out of proper wages, Dina worries that Om and Ishvar may be sluffing off, or that they will drop her like a hat if someone offers them better. Fear is governing a lot of their behavior.

What about Om's and Ishvar's behavior when Dina goes to the factory. I thought it was kind of nervy on their part, and not quite trustworthy. They were being paid to work, not to lounge in the living room. Perhaps it was the only way Ishvar knew to settle Om down, to let him goof off a bit.

YOu may have noticed the links have disappeared. Things were getting crowded, so Pat W has put them all on a separate page easily accessed by clicking links. Thanks Pat.

What is difficult for me to understand is if so many different cultures could exist and obey the same laws -- they had the laws of their state, but then another set of laws for their religion.

From Hats," After one country rules another for so long, I would think the people, after gaining their freedom and the power to rule themselves, would have many struggles. "

That seems to be what Mistry is showing us in his writing.

And, no doubt, we could name other examples in the world.

Traude, thanks so much for your further explanation of the caste system. I did not realize that supposedly it had been outlawed in 1947. As you say, the stroke of the pen does not eliminate the system. And Malryn, you are so right when you speak of the hidden castes in the US. I am so sorry about the rejection that you have felt throughout the years. What is it in the nature of man that wants to exclude or mistreat groups. Do we all need someone to beat upon?

Even Roopa, who had suffered so much as one from a lower class caste looked down on the Bhunghi man who wanted tailoring services from Narayan, and she says to her son (p.133) -- "How can you even think of measuring someone who carts the shit from people's houses?" Apparently the stink of tanning was above that of the other. And Dukhi -- it was because the HIndu tailor in the village would not sew for him that he became friends with Ashraf, the Muslim tailor. How fortunate that friendship was for both.

I've been browsing in the links (above) about the caste system, and even now, in the 21st century, there are 160 million Untouchables in India. And still, many of them, especially in rural villages, subjected to the outrages that we have seen in A Fine Balance. Mistreatment during elections, if they don't vote for certain candidates, is still common. Those in the cities escape some of this, but even still, as Laura mentioned, like new immigrants they are the ones with the most menial and demeaning jobs.

One can't help but wonder if the mega outsourcing that is going on in India now, will help this situation. If the opportunities that come with the development of a middle class, will break down some of the barriers.

The hour is now late. More tomorrow.

We have to wonder who provided such a different portrait of the Prime Minister to the West, and how it is possible that the egregious abuses by an army of goondas , = arm-breaking muscle men with a killer instinct, were known only to those who were victims (if they lived) and their suffering families. And they were silenced by fear.

Such misery is inconceivable and unimaginable to us.

P.S. I am again experiencing the uncontrolled wandering of the text toward the right. It makes reading posts extremely difficult. The "fit window" option in the upper right corner of the screen provides no relief. Am I the only one who has that problem? Please help.

Ginger and Traude, I agree with you both. Reading this book cannot but help make you aware of how much better off we all are in comparison to the poor souls we've met in A Fine Balance. I think this is what Mal and Hats alluded to when they spoke of the tough times they have seen, living within the "castes" of this country, but escaping the extreme hopelessness and despair experienced by Mistry's characters.

Judy, that is a shocking story about the cattle truck and its drivers. One wonders if this horrible incident was motivated by religion, by fanatic Hindus obsessed with harming anyone who markets cattle. As you say, "there is still much to do." And as Andara asks, "will we ever learn?"

Hats, what a wonderful thought -- "Once we touch base with the goodness of a country there is a desire to save that part of the world from the clutches of whatever or whomever would destroy it." And as many of you have pointed out, goodness was exemplified in the caring shown to Ashraf and his family by Ishvar and Narayan and the Hindu neighbors. But it was also Ashraf's goodness coming full circle, for it was he, a Muslim, who encouraged his friend, the untouchable, to send his children to him.

Judy, that's an interesting comment about the village being idealized when compared to life in the city. I can't imagine either Om or Ishvar wanting to return, after what happened, but yet that is just what Om wants to do. Mrs. S, it's interesting to compare your take on city life with Laura's. One of you speaks of the anonymity and the dependence on strangers and the other of the need to establish ties and build a network. Probably you're both right.

Laura, I hope your husband has a successful trip to Mumbai and that he has a chance to see something of the country. My son goes to Bangalore two or three times a year, but when I ask what he's done there, all he says is "work." I'm visiting him next week, and am going to pin him down a bit more.

Gumtree, we hope you're having a good trip in the forests. Is this Spring for you now?

Life in Mumbai

"The city had 50 per cent slums even in the '70s. But today the situation is slightly different because the government has started accepting the fact that it alone cannot solve the problems of these people and so it has started working with non-governmental organisations (NGOs) like ours."

Perhaps some of the hopes will take place.

This morning's news had a short sound bite about water finally being returned to New Orleans' Ninth Ward -- after a year! And it made me think of the evening scene when water surprisingly and unexpectedly erupts from the pipes. THere was joy then as the children played, much like ours did in the sprinkler, and mothers washed off babies who would have gone to bed dirty. OM was going for the bucket, but Rajaram said, "let the little ones enjoy." There wasn't much for them to enjoy there.

Warning --- it's a little slow with dial-up. There's also a good b and w street scene on the India page. Click it and it will enlarge.

What is being balanced here? So many wonderful thoughts on that. We need a list --
From Mal-- A fine balance between life and death, between finances and cost of living
From Hats -- the Untouchables balancing their lives as on a tightrope, Dina -- the balance of survival, living as a poor widow, balancing between money and sanity, When tragedy strikes, balancing between grief and control
From Andara -- a balance between survival and annihilation, everyone living on the edge, clinging to what they have
From Laura -- a balance of interdependence -- from the tailors to Dina, from Dina needing the tailors, Dina needing Maneck's rent and Maneck needing the room

All wonderful examples. And someone earlier said something about a balance between hope and despair. How true.

Are Om and Ishvar a balancing act? Hats spoke about Ishvar holding himself together, for Om's sake. Ishvar always seems to show his positive side, where Om so often wears his "sour look."

Traude says, "For westerners this book is an eye-opener because Mistry tells us what really went on under Indira Ghandi, how people were dragooned and bused to political rallies, and it is not a pretty picture. We have to wonder who provided such a different portrait of the Prime Minister to the West. . ." That makes me wonder -- how long have books by Indian citizens or those who have emigrated from there been part of Western literature. I have not read that widely about India, but it seems that much of what I read in earlier years was written by Westerners.

And there will be three more added to the page soon, including Mal's page and Hats' link to Indian Cuisine. Last Christmas one of my daughters wanted an Indian Cookbook. So I got that for her, and my granddaughter and another daughter went through the recipes and fixed up little bags of all the spices (many) that she would need. We were all gathered together for the holidays, so Judy cooked us an Indian meal. She spent FOUR HOURS in the kitchen, preparing it.

Who enabled his woman to inflict such harm on her own people for so long without reproof from the world ? What possessed her? Was it vainglory ?

Many years ago when we were still new in this country, my husband and I were invited to a gathering in Washington. I can't remember any details, nor the host of what I think was an important "event" under the auspices of the World Bank. The only thing I clearly recall is a feeling of awe. We sat on cushions low on the ground while silent, turbaned Sihks carried in a continuous procession of alien dishes. There were few other women, I remember, but the men caied he conversation.

I made a point of staying informed about India, or at least semi-informed, and took notice of the fact that Indira Ghandi's second son, Rajiv, married an Italian, Sonja. Sonja herself was running for office at one time but later gave up politics. Her two children are now in the politial limelight - or should I say "business" ?

Some time ago, when trying to research a little about Mistry, I came across articles about how he had frequently been stopped and questioned by airport security -- am assuming this was after 9/11. Have any of you encountered any of this?

Someone just mentioned Family Matters. I haven't read it, but am curious to know if he shows his wonderful story gathering and story-telling ability in this novel too.

More tomorrow evening. (I have doctors' appointments both in the morning and afternoon.)
Thank you.

According to PEDLN's discussion schedule, we'll begin our third week tomorrow with chapters VIII, X and X.
Good night.

None of these, no matter what their motivation or reason, suffered like the masses , that is safe to assume. Nor did they care. The people who suffer are always the innocents, the helpless, the voiceless, the uneducated.
But they suffer pain just as keenly as everyone else.

JUDY, does Nusswan fits in that group ? I think he does. He has no financial worries and there's no evidence of a conscience. But how many Haves in this world are seriously interested in the Have-nots, or why they are unemployed and homeless ?

Both India and China took measures to curb their population explosion, each nation by their own devices and starting at inception.
China introduced the one-child-only rule for parents.
India heavily promoted the forcible sterilization of men and women - enhanced by bribes (satisfying the qota system) for the 'enforcers', never mind if some of the "beneficiaries" were beyond the age of child-bearing, or - worse yet - underwent (voluntarily or not) the same procedure again, simply because they were promised a radio, or the like ... Mercy!

This is distasteful and incomprehensible for Westerners and goes against everything we believe in. But can we unilaterally condemn the practices of another country in any given matter ? Do we have the right to dictate what they ought to do or not ?

HATS, almost forgot. No, we don't have to agree to any philosopher's findings. We can decide that for ourselves as we wish.

ANDARA, thank you for posting. All of us have personal concerns, and I hope yours will be resolved satisfactorily soon.
I had a personal problem myself and could not post here for two days. But I'm here and on the job now, wishing everyone well.

The SN Conference and Celebration in Arlington, that ended yesterday, must have been memorable. Marcie was honored, and no one ever deserved it more than she did.
PEDLN is going to spend time with family in the D.C. area but will be with us again soon. I'm sure she wants us to go, and so we will.

Thank you and Good Night.

Nisswan's jumping to unwarranted conclusions would be almost comical if he were not such a loathsome character. He says, "... at least two hundred million people are surplus to requirements, they should be eliminated ..."


"Yes. You know -- got rid of. ... What kind of lives do they have anyway? They sit in the gutter and look like corpses. Death would be a mercy."

What gross, inexcusable insensitivity and cruelty. It is even worse to consider that Nisswan was by no means alone in believing that the poor are superfluous. He mentions "a multinational business".

More tomorrow, on chapter X.

No, I don't see hatred expresed or implied; for my part I am increduluous that people would hold such opinions in 1975 -- or even now, for all we know.

It might be remembered, though, that in the Victorian age and beyond, women were very rarely admired for their own deeds or merits; they only reflected the glow of their father's or husband's glory.

Chapter X, Sailing Under the Same Flag, begins with Ishvar's and Om's return from the labor camp, late at night. Om wonders why shanty towns on both sides of the highway are still standing. Beggarmaster explains that it wasn't that simple; everything depended on the long-term arrangements betwween each slumlord and the police (!) "That's not fair", says Om, and who could think otherwise?

Beggarmaster insists on taking the tailors to Dina's house, wakes her and meets her and Maneck. Then he leaves with the other human cargo in his truck, the new prospective beggars he has bought, but not before saying that he'll be back to collect the tailors' rent. Imagine !!

The reunion of the four is touchingly described. The foursome stays together, and there is a period of adjustment. The tailors resume an easy fellowship also with the owner ad cook of the Vishram Vegetarian cafe, who think the tailors could produce a modern Mahahbarat(a) , the Vishram edition. (More about that in another post.)

Orders are filled for Mrs. Gupta, everything runs smoothly, there are more remnants now for Dina's quilt. Sharing her home, especially the bathroom, does not come easily to Dina, but her worst fears are not realized.
First Om, then Ishvar begin cooking their specialties to general appproval. What it took the ordinary Indian at that time to get his/her apportioned raion of grains milled is vividly described in this chapter.

Ishvar shares more of his and Om's background with Dina, cautiously and little by little. As a result, her understanding deepens.

There's question in my mind but I haven't formulated it yet.

Remember the earlier question raised here as to why Dukhi's sons and grandsons were trained in the leather tanning trade ? Well, there's an answer in this chapter, when Ishvar says, "Learning about leather was to build character ... and to teach Om his history, remind him of his own community."

A new assignment begins tomorrow, as per PEDLN'S Reading Schedule, and encompasses chapters XI, XII, XIII, XIV. Please bear with me. Believe me, it is worth it.

And I hope you all will not judge me too harshly for disappearing for two weeks. It was a fantastic conference and I only wish that everyone here could have been there. Our people from Books and the Classics program -- Joan P, Pat W, Ginny and Marcie -- presented our activities here to a captivated audience and made a very favorable impression on those from the Learning Centers who weren't familiar with the online program. They were terrific. And I think that we, in turn, learned a lot about other aspects of SeniorNet. I was very glad to have been there. And now, after visits with family in DC and Virginia, and 2000 road miles, I'm very tired, but happy to be home.

This is not and has not been an easy book to read. But the posts, from all of you, have been marvellous. They raise questions and make us think about what we have been reading. And Traude's wonderful summaries of what has been taking place, such a help.

Juanita, your comment -- "It seems that just as soon as these unfortunate people manage some sort of stability in their lives, that gets snatched that away" -- always a balancing act, like the scales tipping first one way and then the other.

Traude, I finally had a chance to read the January Magazine interview with Mistry. Cannot believe the comments of Germaine Greer. I'll have to join MIstry with his labels for her -- asinine and brainless. Though he seems to be quite capable of standing up for himself, knowing what he wants and going after it.

And the other links about Mistry -- very helpful. I'm not quite sure I understand what "neorealism" is, but this novel takes on the quality of a nightmare. Only when one wakes up, nothing is changed; the horrors of the night still remain.

Judy, it is hard to believe (your post#278) that things have not changed that much since the time of this book. "Even in the most prosperous neighborhoods of cities like Delhi and Mumbai, water is available for just a few hours each day" Shocking, unbelievable. So sad. All I could think of was all the water shortages, deprivals, that MIstry wrote about -- the people so dependent on the whims of the bureaucracy for something so necessary for life. Not just in INdia, but as some of you also said, in Africa and other developing countries.

While reading, I'm continually reminded of a recent translation in Latin class -- actually the Motto of South Carolina -- "Dum spiro spero" -- While I breathe, I hope. (Traude, no doubt you can give a better translation) But that seems to be the philosophy of so many of the characters here. No matter what happens, life goes on.

Hats -- re: goiters -- when I was in third grade I lived for a few months with an aunt and uncle in a small town. It must have been an area where people developed goiters because every week someone, most likely from the county health dept., came to our two-room school house and gave all the children "goiter pills." I assume they contained iodine.

Thank you all for the explanation of the chess game. As I read this earlier, I felt that the chess had to be symbolic in some way, as it had such a deep effect on Manack. Judy, your comments make a lot of sense – “The peons are not important, the Kind and Queen reign supreme."

Hats, I loved your comments about Dina. "I almost want to say R. Mistry wanted to start his journey with Dina. Dina seems the main person to whom all the other characters are attracted. Dina is the main body of the "constellation." The other characters are drawn to her home. Dina is the magnet." Hats 10/16 -- That’s really an interesting statement about characterization. Do you think he has picked Dina as the protagonist? You make a good case for that when you say that she is the constellation and the others are drawn to her.

I look upon Mistry as an observer, who writes about what he sees or imagines. Surely he would have kept up with the news of the country of his birth, kept in touch with family members, would have been aware of specific events, even if he had not been in the country itself. I'm reminded of the Balzac quote at the beginning of the book, which ends with "But rest assured: this tragedy is not a fiction. All is true."

I'm wondering if we will hear any more about Monkey-man's nephew and niece. "They'll have to get used to their new life." Is Beggarman cruel or practical?

All the other characters, major and minor, are arranged around the four main protagonists and touch their lives in one form or another. Mistry deftly shows us some religious practices; what happens during the Divali holiday (without explaining why it is celebrated); refers to the Mahabharata (though without the 'a' at the end); and paints vivid scenes of Indian families (the children of the drunkard in the slum who are sent begging; the family whose two girls are to be measured for dresses, and the tailor Jeevan cheats on the measurements).

Time and again Mistry shows how consistently one hand washes the other, and how prevalent deceit and dishonesty are. Even so, decency is not totally gone even in the work camp: when Monkeyman makes his sister's small children perform a dangerous, dizzying act, the workers protest.

Dina and her housemates come dangerously close to being evicted but Beggarmaster prevails over the landlord, which none of them had believed possible. For a while all goes smoothly, the tailors are saving money, and Dina repays Nisswan for the earlier loan.

She is a realist and often caustic, but as the intermezzo with the kittens and her affection for Maneck show, she has a softer side too. One character who is hard to define and understand, I believe, is Maneck. What makes him so undecided, lethargic and irresolute, I wonder ? His grades are poor and now he plans another three years of study ...

P.S. The Mahabharata is one of two ancient Indian epics; it is a large compendium, eight times longer than the Iliad and Odyssey together.

Gumtree, we're glad you're back. Hope you had a wonderful vacation in the forests. And you express most eloquently, what I just tried to say. Your comments -- ". . .the human spirit is not easily extinguished, that no matter what is inflicted upon them there are those who will rise above it and become ennobled. Another theme of this book.

All of your posts raise many interesting questions, but Traude, you mention the very first question, and that too, is one that could be debated for ages. I read a review some time back where the reviewer stated that perhaps this story is outdated or no longer pertinent because it is has been several years since the Ghandi regime. And I wonder if that's one reason why Mistry purposely did not put names in the setting. There is much that is pertinent, atrocities against mankind still continue, much of the world lives in dire circumstances and we are all forever seeking that fine balance. I think one of the themes of this book is man's inhumanity to man.

Laura, I'm glad you mentioned the humor. How typical of teenaged boys -- it's good to see them showing that side of themselves. Om has had so few chances and even Maneck has not had much chance to experience being a teen. I was happy to see Om want to get into the act of playing with the kittens. And why did Mistry bring in the kittens? Again being the pessiminst -- to show how quickly things can change? The sweet babies are now scavengers fighting for their survival?

Maneck returns to the hostel, intent on returning Avinash's boxed chess set. His old room is exactly as he left it. Then he hears voices next door - and finds the parents of Avinash removing his possessions. They tell him of his cremation. It is clear that Avinash had been tortured before being dumped on the railraods tracks.
How could an impressionable, basically unhappy youth not be davastated by the loss of a friend he had cherished -- and, shortly thereafter, by the death of another friend, Shankar ?

This week's assignment covers chapters XI to XIV. Several chapters contain un-numbered "segments", for wont of a better word.
HATS, you had earlier referred to a quotation by Dina about 'symbols'. Sorry I can't find it. Would you please elaborate?

You see, I found that the pages of my paperback do not correspond to those in the hardcover, which was long returned to the library. That has stopped me from quoting some interesting passages by page numbers.

Ellerbee is taking her show to India, although the program did not say when.

Traude, thanks for alerting us to Bob Herbert's column. I just finished reading it, most of it shocking, even actions against women in the Western world -- A study of young, female murder victims in the U.S. found that homicide was the second leading cause of death for girls 15 to 18. And I'm reminded of another book discussion, Alexander McCall Smith's novel of Botswana, where the average life span was 34 years, and women were so frequently victimized. If they did not submit to their husbands and boyfriends they were beaten, and if they did, they frequently became infected with HIV. Certainly a no-win situation. At the same time, regarding India, I am reminded that there is a growing middle class, and that many young adult Indians, including women, are entering white collar professions that were previously unavailable. However, that does not eradicate the current injustices.

But may I briefly explain that (1) each volume of the # One Ladies' Detective Agency is self-contained - in other words, you need not have read each successive volume before - and (2) the tales provide an authentic, wonderful, hopeful picture of post-colonialist Botswana. (Please imagine this in very tiny font - which I can't do : I confess to have read ALL 7 volumes of the above.)

PEDLN, please forgive me - I got carried away here.
Let me add that Alexander McCall Smith is a wondrously prolific author and has several other series going - which I'll mention in a more appropriate place.

GINGER - thank you for the very timely reminder. I already voted by absentee ballot - not because I'm absent but because I can't stand in long lines any more. I'm glad for this opportunity becaue I wanted my voice to be heard.

Judy S, I'm with you when you say you would never have finished it on your own. This has been my second reading, having read most of it late summer. However, there were parts of this last section that I could not bring myself to read with any depth then, just did a quick gloss-over. This time I did really read it, knowing that others were doing the same. I think that having read all our previous comments and being aware of each other's sensitivities towards the horrors of this novel helped in reaching the end.

What brought on Maneck's demise? I think it was what he perceived were the revelations of all the shams and hypocrisies in life, the unfairness of it all. According to him, his life had been unbalanced since he was eleven years old (and sent to boarding school). Why should he expect it to change -- he was always going to be the slow coach.

It's been a while since I've read a book that so frequently touches on life today. Or someone says something and it makes me think of A Fine Balance. Like the minister's annual stewardship sermon today, when he said "the poor man knows how many shirts he has, the poor woman how many pairs of shoes. How many do you have?" And I thought of the victims of the Family Planning Clinic, the tell-tale signs of those with only one pair of pants. Or the terrible bureuracracy -- a parallel in yesterday's NYT. Newborns, of illegal immigrants, are not eligible for Medicaid until they can prove US citizenship -- which may take days, weeks, or months. This is a book that will stay with me for a long time.

Ishvar was a wonderful, positive character, and Om a good complement (a sidekick perhaps?).

Dina's independence was ultimately unsuccessful - but was that surprising, given the tenor of the book ? She celebrated a small personal victory every time she served the tailors food on the same china from which Nisswan ate in the evening.

But I keep wondering about Maneck. Why did he capitulate ? Was his final act selfish ? What made him so detached politically (the oppsite of Avinah), and so unwilling to take charge of his own life earlier and more forcefully?
Whatever that was, it was caused his death. And what a waste ! He certainly could have done SOMEthing for his country when he returned from Dubai with savings ...

7. I would tell people who ask me about this book that reading it is an emotional experience and definitely not for the faint-hearted.

Your steadfast company has made my task easier and I thank you with all my heart.
I'd like to share with you one more thing, namely the opinion of this book by a good friend of mine - and I'll do so either later tonight or first thing tomorrow. Right now I'm waiting for my CA daughter's Sunday night call.

But this am -- Emergencies -- how much will society put up with before it rebels?
-- Can the suspension of civil liberties ever be justified?
-- Aside from being grateful, can you apply any of this book to your own life?

Can this book be called "Kafkaesque?" I ask because I've heard the term applied to other situations where people find themselves in horrible situations without understanding why. I've read little Kafka, but the term ran through my mind often as I read.

Nowhere is there any measure of the despair found in AFB. As PEDLN said, this book will stay with us for a long time.

Once again, many thanks to PEDLN and all of you.

Traude, thank you for sharing your friend's comments. I have not read Suitable Boy, so cannot say whether it gives a better picture of life in India. From what you say, she is comparing apples and oranges. It does sound like she agrees with Germaine Greer, and as far as SHE, Greer, (not your friend) is concerned, I agree with Mistry.

But is it important -- whether all that is described really happened in the real India. It is written so that we are caught up in the events and have feelings for those who experienced them. I found this book to be full of horrors, with the balance pole forever waving, never achieving that fine balance. But it was beautifully written, with a style that (in my opinion) can't be faulted. Perhaps at some time, somewhere, someone will want to discuss whether a work of fiction that makes no claims to veracity, has to be true to fact -- but probably not now, or here.

Judy, thanks for your explanation of Kafkaesque. And Gumtree, we're not tallying up, but I don't think you're alone in your feelings about which way the scales are balanced here. It was difficult in many places, frequently negative, but well worth reading nevertheless.

Laura and Hats, your positiveness is very welcome. Your most recent post ,Laura, is a wonderful summary and you build a strong case for showing us the fine balance.

I'm driving to Springfield, IL tomorrow morning to spend a few days with Lincoln, at the new Lincoln Museum and other historical places in the area. I'll be looking forward to your final comments. It's been said many times, but is always true, this discussion would not have been possible without the thoughts and comments of all of you. Thank you.

About the recognizing -- perhaps it was simply a case of each (Ishvar&Om and Maneck) waiting for the other to speak. And when the moment passed by, it was too late.

And so we come to the end of A Fine Balance, perhaps none of us agreeing on whether such a balance was ever achieved, but knowing that life is a series of balances and we all do our own act.

Many thanks again to all of you for your excellent posts, your time and your perseverance. You have all helped make this a book that will be long remembered.