This looks like a good one - I haven't read it yet although I bought the book about a year ago - looking forward to a great discussion just before the holidays take over our lives.

Had a great cup of pumpkin spice coffee the other day - sounds strange but it was really good and so I will pull up my chair with my cup of pumpkin spice coffee and hope a few of you join me as we visit Sweden.

Have any of you ever visited Sweden? I have a great book that is years old about the various crafts of Sweden and I was always going to knit one of those wonderful sweaters with the black pattern on white with shots of red - although it could be the pattern is from Norway - maybe this book will get my juices going and I will knit that sweater this month as well.

When I was researching the turn of the century Sweden I was suprised to learn that Norway only broke away from Sweden at the turn of the twentieth century. I love a book in a setting that I do not know much about - it gives me an opportunity to learn about another area of the world - it is like an adventure.

Come to think of it I really do not know of any authors or poets from Sweden or Norway. There is that artist Lars something or other - that painted delightful interior scenes - I get the impression there isn't much light hearted delight in this book but we shall see as we read won't we.

Looking forward to our adventure - come on pull up a chair and join us --

Hi Barbara, I'm glad we're going to be discussing this book. My daughter gave it to me for Christmas a few years ago and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I then passed it back to my daughter, but have retrieved it again -- my copy has traveled, lots, believe me.

I must admit, I'm a better lurker than poster -- not sure if it's because of intimidation, procrastination, or inertia. However, I do get a lot out of the discussions that accompany a second reading.

How many do you need for a quorum?

Also, I like the picture you have put in the heading, and think it is a good choice for parts of this book.

Pedlin how great to see your post - I had purchesed the book with all good intentions but didn't delve in at the time as you did - good to hear you say it was a good read - all the reviews are very positive - Pedlin we do well to have at least 2 more or else the conversation dries up - to me this seems like a women's story and so I have not sent any e-mail to the men among us - I think we will end up posting some of our own experiences and feelings about some of the issues raised in this story. I gather that it will really give us a timeline of woman's emancipation.

Barbara, what a beautiful heading. I read some very good reviews of this book awhile back, and will try to join, albeit somewhat belatedly as I'm in the middle of reading anothor book right now.

I don't think we've discussed any book about Sweden here, and, come to think of it, I can't recall ever reading a book about Sweden.

Are other folks planning on joining us?

Hi Barbara,

I have the book and would like to join for the group read. I love the heading above too. I am anxious to read and look at the information you have given us.

Hello Barbara,

Pumpkin Spice Tea sounds great, but then so does pumpkin pie and coffee.

I have never been to Sweden and can't imagine wanting to go to a country that is just as cold or colder than the state I live in.

I have read the book as it was a pick for one of the book groups I belonged to. I don't remember much from our discussion as we also read Simon's Family and I remember a lot from that one.

Hopefully I can find my book or borrow one from the library; I don't want to buy another one even though I am anxious to get started on it.

I got the book today and want to join. I'm a very slow reader though so I may get behind.

Hats, showdog, Anna3 how wonderful - this will be great with all of you - found my book and I will start reading tonight - no trick or treaters but it is cold and wet which for us is a problem since we are usually warm and dry - I wonder why the book cover in the US features these embrodered pillows - the cover in the UK is a more earthy look of women in a field - I'll be interested in figuring out if I can what the perspective of women's history is that the publisher thought that these white embrodered pillows would say so much.

Stopped at another coffee shop today that featured chocolate and cinnamon flavored coffee - not nearly as good as the pumpkin spice was last week. I must say though they had some chocolate rum meringue kisses to die for - it has been years since I baked for the holidays but this year I am in the mood - I used to love to bake breads - the real yeast kind with raisens and nuts worked into the dough - hmmm I just might be giving all my neighbors a gift of bread this year.

Well lets hear what your drink of choice is as you pull up a chair and we start to discuss this book this weekend - I am running over to Collage Station for the day on Saturday but I will post before I leave and than be back sometime Sunday afternoon.

Anna is the swing character it seems in Marianne Fredriksson's book - Anna introduces us to the story and later is the interlude between Hanna and Johanna. Let's start this weekend simply speaking about the Introduction as given by Anna - for those still scrambling to get to your book the Introduction by Anna is linked as an excerpt above.

Now if you continue to read that is fine but lets not pick up on the discussion of Hanna till Monday. This gets us going and gives those a chance to find their book and ease into this -

So choose your chair - your drink - and lets start Friday night or on Saturday what your thoughts are about Anna as she introduces us to Hanna and Johanna the women of her family in Sweden.

I'm reading, though I may not be able to be here very much, or at all. Many interferences this month.

A word of caution....that I mean to be helpful to the reading. I think the translator has done a very poor job. Sentence structure and runaway pronouns...what a mess, in places. HOWEVER, once I realized it was the translator (I think) and not the author, I relaxed a little and concentrated on the story.

Betty

ahh thnks for the tip Betty - and any post from you will be a wonderful addition -

Reading this makes me feel a renewed motivation to get the family photos in order and accompany those photos with the story of at least what was happening when the photo was taken. Interesting when I was a child I always wanted my grandmother to tell me what it was like when she was a little girl or when my mother was little where as my grandboys do not seem to have any curiosity about my childhood nor for that matter is it something my own children ask me to tell them.

What I do hold precious is the last time I visited my mother - she was in the hospital and although she had temporarily gone home with a friend a few weeks later, she died during that visit home. During our visit I had one of these 'Memories for Grandchildren' books that together we started to fill out. I learned so many more things about my Mom during that all day visit. Filling out the pages of that book made for a wonderful visit as we could focus on her without simply going over and over her latest treatment. I never did have the responsibilty for an aged father since he died of a sudden heart attack 10 years before.

Do any of you still have parents or are you now the oldest generation in your families?

Talking about getting the photos in order -- last year, within a few months, my DIL lost her father and my brother lost his wife. Two different groups, but as each family drew together in their grief and mourning they sought out the family albums and spent hours looking at and talking about pictures that had not been looked at in years.

Photos bring back happy memories, and I thnk that even the kids and grandkids who ask about family history want to know about the people in them.

Now it's late, and I think I'll get in bed with a cup of hot cranberry and orange juice, my late afternoon or evening drink of choice once the weather turns cool.

I have just finished reading the book and relate to it in many ways. My husband and I are both from immigrant families, my mother's family,from Finland, came to the US in 1891, and my father's family came much earlier, so he was first generation American. My husband's family came from Norway in 1929, just a few months before the big stock market crash, so they worked hard to house and feed their family of 7. Another personal connection with the book is that his mother was Hanna and my mother was Anna - if we'd ever had a girl we threatened to name her Anna Hanna! Family stories from the past reveal that all was not rosy and moral - they all had their human failings but also possessed the strength to succeed in most of their endeavors. I plan to re-read the book in a day or so to clarify the relationships of all the members of each generation. I must also brag a bit - my volunteer work at the local library earned me a dedicatory bookplate in the book before it was placed on the shelves for others to read. Ain't that sumpin'?

Welcome to you Clara! It sounds like you'll add a lot to this discussion. Lovely to have you.

Well, WOW! Thanks for your welcome with my name in big red letters. Sure hope others will contribute so that this will be a lively exchange. There's nothing so pleasing as reading a good book, especially during this campaign season when TV is almost worthless. Good reading, y'all!

I'm looking forward to this discussion, but here's a little tale, while we're waiting.

One of my aunts married a man whose father came from Sweden and he would tell us this about his father. Claus Johnson came to this country as a young man in, I guess, the early 1900's. As the new arrival walked the streets of the city where he landed he saw lots of street vendors selling wonderful-looking bright red apples. He thought they looked delicious, all red and juicy, and couldn't wait to taste one. So he bought one and took out his pocket knife to cut it open --- and immediately threw it away. It was an awful apple, all soft and runny and not like any apple he had ever had. Claus Johnson had just met his first tomato .

Welcome ClaraO We are pleased you are joining us - pull up your chair and introduce yourself - most of the participants have participated in a book or two with seniornet and if you click on their name there is a short bio of each of us - now I cannot guarantee everyone has filled out their bio but we will share as we go along.

Pedlin funny...evidently there were no tomatoes shipped to Sweden in the early 1900s. Or if there were your friends family was not familiar with them - I need to look - when I think of the Vikings and all their expolits on the high seas I think of both present day Sweden and Norway - I wonder if Swedish sailors were less adventurious and therefore had less trade with places like Italy and Spain where the tomato was a staple food source.

Just popped in and I must take a nap - driving in the rain is not fun. My leg, shoulders and fingers are cramped as I drove with such intencity. I good hot cup of tea is what I am after and a bit of a nap. I will be back later this evening. Lets plan on discussing the chapter on Hanna - had you noticed the individual chapters are not numbered - interesting - there are two guides in the links and to start off we may want to at least look at those guides and see where they have placed the focus of this chapter on Hanna - I am sure as we read and discuss this part of the book making it our own other issues will pop up for us.

ClaraO you will notice we do not discuss the book as all of a piece - we take it bit by bit - some participants do not read the entire book but rather read based on the discussion schedule - this may be a bit different than other discussions you have joined but this has been the system used on Seniornet Books even before I became involved back in '97. Hope it doesn't throw you since you have shared you have read the book - I blieve Alf also read the book - I know I have just started the book last week.

Thanks Sarah and Ginny for slipping in here while I was gone for most of the weekend - hope you will stick around and share your thoughts with us about this family of women.

Just had my 75th birthday, been married to Ole for almost 50 years, earned a BA cum laude at a Norwegian Lutheran college and did some graduate work after that. Raised five sons, all nice guys once they matured, and have three fine grandchildren who love to read. Was a working mom for many years. Now retired, living in Florida, and loving it. No longer Lutheran, just a lukewarm Presbyterian. My husband has dementia but remains as sweet as ever and will be kept at home as long as possible with the help of our youngest son. I could write a whole chapter but I won't.

Hello all! I am here because of the note from Barbara in Geographic Sweden folder. This book looks very interesting because we recently returned from Sweden - three of my grandparents came from Sweden (the other side is Mayflower material). Visiting the village and farmhouse where one grandmother was raised was a very emotional time for me - her church was built in 1699 and she and two brothers left only because there was absolutely no work for them in the early 1900's. Now, the family (67 in total) is very successful and we had a wonderful visit. It is so interesting to see some of the same traits shared although we have never met - work ethic, love of family, interest in education, travel, and so many similarities that it has been fascinating to finally meet.

I will try to check in on this discussion - we are in the middle of trying to sell a house at this time. Oh, yes, I bake many of the special Scandinavian breads and cook as well - we have relatives in Minnesota (and I was fortunate to live there for 9 years) and Seattle (that is my hometown). I am in a converstational Swedish class at our local university and not learning very well - but it has been fun. That is all. Carol

ClaraO, I enjoyed your bio. Was your college St. Olaf by any chance? We have a few things in common. All my grandparents came from Norway, and I was baptized Lutheran, (confirmed Methodist) and am now a member of the Presbyterian Church.

Carol, I enjoyed seeing your pictures of your visit to Sweden -- the church, especially. You should put a link to them here in Hanna's daughters. It's interesting that you call your grandmother Mormor. My mother and her six siblings (all born in Scandinavia, Wisconsin) called their grandparents Mor and Far (mother and father.)

My mother and aunt would speak a pidgin Norweigian (that no one else could understand) whenever they didn't want me to listen in. The only Norweigian I ever learned was a hymn to sing at Norweigian services, and a nasty expression about excrement that the minister's son in Scandinavia taught my brother.

Where in Minnesota did you live? I love your hometown -- it's my favorite city. My daughter lives in Wallingford and her children were born at Ballard/Swedish.

Thanks for asking. I attended Augustana at Sioux Falls - wanted to get far from home in N. Mich. since I spent two years at the Finnish Lutheran junior college that was only four blocks from home and I knew a few people at Augie. 24h travel by bus and train each way but I was young and adventurous then. Now I drive or I don't go! Our oldest son is a grad of Concordia at Moorhead but the rest of our sons went to state colleges nearer home.

Oh this is exciting - to have all these Swedish and Norwegian connections - how wonderful - my only connection to this northern land is when I was in High School I worked for a summer in a small restaurant that was owned by a Norwegian and Swedish couple who had no children. What I thought was fascinating was he had been the master of a square rigged ship in his earlier days. Austin was originally a Swedish community and there are still ties with some of the old organizations.

ClaraO you must be able to make some connections than with Anna in our story when she speaks of her father whose memory is fadding and time seems to run together.

I am so glad you posted here Carol - and yes please link us to your photos - and Pedln you also have Scandanavian heritage - this story will have real meaning won't it.

It will be interesting to hear how the story reflects some of y'alls own memories of families and remembered heritage.

All of you that have recipes please would you share them - what I'm thinking is, if you would share them and then we could have a special page that we would include as a link in the heading to these recipes. You may not want to include anything more than just the recipe in the post because after we create the HTML page with all of your recipes we will delete that post - this would be so great especially with the holidays coming when we all like to cook a bit more than in the heat of the summer.

Hmmm just remembered when my daughter was 14 she was one of 20 girls chosen from a 13 state region to attend an art workshop in Kansas that was steeped in Swedish Culture. She spent two weeks there and came home having made a heart shaped wrought iron candlestick holder and a tiny wooden horse painted red that we often see at Christmas time. She made a few other things as well but, these two objects I remember because I still have them among my Christmas decorations.

My oh my we are a spread out bunch - Florida, Seattle, Wisconsin, Minnesota - I believe Alf also lives in Florida - Betty and I are both here in Austin - Ginny in South Carolina - Sarah in San Francisco -

Hats, showdog, Anna3 where are you from - any Swedish connections in your lives?

You have all brightened my day - it has been raining here with only a two days of weak sun between bouts of 10 day straignt rain with this pattern going on now for over three weeks. Today it is not only raining but it is cold again - we are just not used to this dreary weather. The town feels like it is floating away. The west side of Austin is built on rock, limestone, with no place for the rain to go except to run off onto the east side of town which is clay. All the many creeks that are more often than not dry creek beds are overflowing. I am having a difficult time keeping my spirits high and this discussion is like a bright light for me - thank you - you have no idea the warmth I feel as I read your posts.

No, no Swedish connections at all until I joined this group. I'm up here in Wisconsin. I am enjoying this book very much and would never have found it otherwise...thanks!

The New York Times must have known we are reading "Hanna." Check out today's article on the evolutionary importance of Grandma.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/05/health/aging/05GRAN.html

Interesting Pedln - and so our role as grandmothers can actually add tø the life span of children - amazing - I know I thought highly of my mother's mother but than I thought it had to do with my mother not liking my father's mother very much and her visits always seemed strained - I can see that her ways were very different than my mother's mother but I think there may have been more going on there than simply a difference in cooking and cleaning.

I really have a problem though with this idea of which relative or grandmother a child better relates to - we do what we do and are what we are and sometimes it makes a difference and sometimes it does not - and if someone else makes a difference - fine - as long as the difference is made.

I do agree though, the article seemed written for those reading this book! Did you have special feelings for your grandmother Pedln?

I am printing the first part of this book and just realized that it has 18 pages of print.

pedln: I have a cousin in Wallingford - two cousins went to Ballard High - our family was at Queen Anne. In Minnesota, my mother's family is from Spicer and father's family settled near Elk River. We lived in Maplewood for three years and Centerville just north of the Twin Cities. But - our family has been transferred or moved to Colorado four times and we know this state very well.

Barbara: A Norwegian and Swede marrying - that would be a mixed-marriage!

I'll try to do that link - very plain pictures I am afraid.

In the beginning of the story, I am sadly reminded of my mother and the viscious Alzheimer's Disease that took over her mind. Carol

Sorry - I cannot get to the link of pictures. Carol

It's interesting what we remember or pick up about relationships, re Barbara's mother's feelings about her mother-in-law. My maternal grandmother died when I was eight, and altho I didn't see much of her,I remember her as a warm person who would tell me stories. I really did not know my paternal grandmother, saw her only a few times, but I remember asking, when she was due for a visit, if she would tell me stories. (My father died when I was eight, and we saw his family only rarely. I remember only the one sister who lived near us for a while.)

I think the impact or influence of a relationship is governed a lot by proximity and availability. There were no relationship's between Hanna and the children and Broman's family in Varmland.

ahhh let me see what I can do about getting us some help with a link to those pictures - who would have guessed - a mixed marriage hmmm - I wonder if that is why they emigrated to the U.S.

Eighteen pages - wow I had no idea but then I have been able to read on line without any trouble - is there a half price book store in your area that you could call and see if they have the book - I know Amazon.com has used copies that they find and sell at a discount. You pay Amazon but the bookstore ships the book. I just bought one that new was 18.95 and the used copy, which came from a shop in Maryland cost only 6.75 plus shipping - the total was 9.75 with shipping - not bad for an 18.95 book quoted without shipping added. The whole thing took 8 days.

In the chapters entitled Hanna - So much of Hanna and her mother's hardship reminds me of the stories my grandmother told - the concept of not loving because an illness or accident could take your loved one away sounds vaguely familiar - no wonder there are so many in our generation who just accepted a coldness from our parents and saw we were loved only when we were older. The generation just after us are in therapy because of feeling unloved although we loved them with all our hearts we did not have any experience how to show it. How easily our actions or lack of them are passed down to the next generation and with enough people having similar experiences it affects society. Seems to me this is still an issue for most guys where they do not think it is manly to show emotions or for that matter to talk about feelings. I am sure it comes from not having seen their father's showing or talking about feelings.

It is hard just now to connect this vibrant young Hanna with the old Hanna in the first bit entitled Anna. I am struck at how we look at our parents and grands as they look when they are old and we do not have priviledge to their visions of how it was when they were young.

Barbara and Carol,

Here are links to the photos that I think are the ones Carol wanted to show.

Carol maybe you could come in and tell everyone about them.

Carols Photo#1
Carol's Photo #2
Carol's Photo#3
Carol's photo#4
Carol's photo#5
Carol's photo#6
Carol's Photos#7
Carol's photo#8

Those are the photos I found Carol. Hope they are what you wanted.

Joan

Hurrah - thank you Joan - Ok Carol spin away and let us share in your adventure.

Carol your pictures are wonderful. I love the painted blue table and kitchen and the great spinning wheel. Is that a distaff on it, is it a castle wheel and do you spin with it? Please do tell us about all the pictures.

I'm struggling with the first discussion question, trying to get a profound answer to it, but I have none. We are mixtures of our parents, and in every "transplantation" from one area to another the new situation commands so much of our attention that the past is not so much forgotten as filed away in our memory banks, rarely to be retrieved unless triggered by seeing someone from the past, or, sadly, when dementia creeps in and recent experiences are really forgotten.

To answer the second question, I now am more like my mother than I ever was (in the early morning, just awakened and without my glasses, I see her kind face in the mirror), but I'm really my father's daughter - much more interested in the outside world of politics, finance, etc., and also much more objective than sentimental about life in general. In other words, I'd rather read, follow world and local news and have discussions of all kinds with friends who are on the same wavelength as I, than do housework and cooking.

Carol, your pictures could have been taken during my trip to northern Norway with husband and two oldest sons in the 60s. We visited his birthplace on a fjord and the thick morning fog each day almost made us believers in the trolls that are such a part of Norwegian culture.

My major Christmas baking is down to one loaf of julekage (recipe in the Betty Crocker cook book that I've had for 50 years) for my husband's sake and I expect my son from western Colorado to bring us some lefse when he comes to Florida for Christmas. Since my husband is diabetic we don't go overboard with all the goodies that used to come out of our kitchen.

A good day to all!

Having lived in a Swedish community for 55 years, I think I am more Swedish than English... Our family traditions are basically Swedish and Having lived on a farm we enjoyed all the rich recipes.

Charlie's grandmother was born on the ship, Caledonia, as her parents immigrated to the US in 1868. Her parents, Adolph and Stina Katrina brought 2 children, a boy and a girl with them. But the little girl, age 2, died on the ship, and not knowing the language, they carried the dead child to western Illinois before she was buried. They lived their first winter in an outbuilding, granary, on a farm belonging to a cousin.

The cousin had a wild Jersey heifer, that no one could catch to milk when she had her first calf. He told Katrina she could have the heifer's milk if could milk her. She csught the heifer, tamed her and moved the heifer into the granary where she also provided some heat from her body... They survived that first winter on milk and potatoes. Adolph and Katrina went on to accumulate a section of land, 640 acres, which was considerate a very large farm at that time.

Pat -- That must have been terrible for Charlie's great-grands to have to carry their child's body all the way to Illinois. Her death would have been hard enough by itself.

Does anyone remember a movie about Swedish immigrants from several years ago? I think it may have been called "The Immigrants."

Barbara -- " I am struck at how we look at our parents and grands as they look when they are old and we do not have priviledge to their visions of how it was when they were young."

My parents and their siblings were always "older," to me, or perhaps without age, but never young. But also, I never categorized them as "elderly" in the old and frail sense. They were just themselves, interesting people. "Old" were the others their age whom I didn't know.

I also think of my in-laws, particularly my husband's aunt. Looking back, I realize she wasn't even 40 when we first met, but to me, a college student, she was so wise and understanding, but definitely not young.

I remember the books and movies called "The Immigrants." They were indeed a Swedish family, and the first book related their experiences in coming to the USA, and the second told of their life in America - it was arduous, at best, but in the end they had a good home and family.

Hello from Sweden. Hej Barbara! If you go back to Sweden page I have found some page to you (to all). I have to se movie done of Wilhelm Mobergs book Immigrants.

Hello everyone!

I put just a few of my Sweden pictures in photos and noticed that they seem to be family members

#1 - My cousin Gerd (she is 67, does accounting for two business, weaves, has a huge garden and cares for husband

#2 - Gerd's hand-woven draperies ( I don't know what the amber hanging is in the window and it would have taken too long to ask about it )

#3 - Grandma's (mormor's) church est. 1699

#4 - spinning wheel, yes, it is still used (I don't know anything about them other than my grandmother had a spinning wheel.

#5 - I am standing by mormor's family farmhouse.

#6 - Kitchen in mormor's farmhouse - seven children lived there and three came to America

#7 - cousin Gerd with husband Villy and her Audi - their son is internationally known race car driver for Audi - she taught him to drive. Isn't that great!

#8 - my father's cousin - 90 plus years. She lives alone in another farmhouse, and just finished handweaving the blue and white table runner as a gift for me.

Joan Grimes: Thank you for posting the pictures.

ClaraO: I used to help my mother make lefse.

Annie3: Thanks, I love everything about the family and can't wait to make a return trip.

In answer to a question - I am the oldest generation with the passing of my parents six years ago (28 days apart). They were always young and vibrant, very enterprising and businesslike - both parents. No one talked about hardships - they just forged ahead and as I looked over the peaceful and beautiful place that my grandmother left at the age of 19, I knew that she privately mourned for her home but she never spoke of the loss of family in her life. Swedish relatives still have her letters written fifty or more years ago and she did write about missing the little farmhouse. These pictures are from the Varmland region.

Carol

Claro and Carol, I love lefse, but haven't had any for years. When my aunt in Scandinavia (WS) bought her first gas stove after WWII, she also bought a small wood stove, just so she could make lefse.

I grew up in Racine (WS), best known for its Danish kringles (and Johnson Wax.) On Christmas Eve we would always have lutefisk and lefse. My mother's family would have lutefisk with melted butter, but my aunt always made a mustard sauce for my Swedish uncle. And the sweets.

Does anyone have a recipe for Futemon (poor man's cookies)?

As proud as I am of my Scandinavian heritage, I find I really know very little about the history and social customs or either Sweden or Norway. From the reference above and from the novel, one gathers that there were conflicts. But who governed whom, was there a history of wars? In the novel it seemed to be settled peaceably.

I am also curious about the inheritance laws. Was Broman expecting an inheritance before the death of his mother? Was the horse and cart to be part of that inheritance? Sigun, perhaps you can help us out on this.

I've found lefse in supermarkets in Minnesota and my son gets it from his supermarket (name forgotten by me!) in Grand Junction, CO. A search of the 'Net will probably find the product available from several sources. Pretty expensive for a potato concoction but the sentimental gratification is fantastic!

I had lefse when we visited my sister.. who's husband is Norweign.. I think it is primarily a Norweign thing.

We like potatis korv (potato sausage), smoked herring, spritz cookies, Sandbakkelse (sand tarts), and osta kaka with lingonberries at Christmas. We pass on the lute fisk, but had it when my MIL was still alive... But we still have eggarora and pana kaka for breakfast year round.

Getting hungry... There is a Swedish food market at Bishop Hill, IL, a tourist place for Swedes. That is where I get most of our supplies for Chjristmas cooking and baking.

Edit: I forgot BondOst the cheese rounds with caraway seed..

Ingmar Bergman movies, Swedish meatballs, and Abba is the extent of Swedish culture that I am familiar with-other than reading a couple of novels. So I'll more or less hang out and pay attention to those who have closer ties.

Hanna's story as told is universal. I can relate to it because as a child I grew up in an extended family. For several years it included my graeat grandmother, my grandmother, mother and myself. The men in our family kept dying off a lot sooner than the women.

I left the fold as soon as I could because I didn't like living in a farming community and I didn't like doing what everyone else did. Life had to be more than celebrating birth, marriage, children and death. So, I left and had a lot of adventures. What's forgotten is the underlying anger for not having the support and guidance I needed from the family I was born into.

I can now safely say I have made the transistion that entails breaking away from family expections and being a person of my own choosing. At this distance in time I not only feel love for my family but I examine the details of our brief time together-as it was-and end up loving them all the more. Breaking away is messy and never clean. I see myself as Johanna when Anna visits (in the opening pages) having a clear mind and a sense of what another suffers; but, nevertheless, powerless to do anything more.

Showdog, It is good to see You Posting Here. Enjoy

Ginger

Ohhh I will do a better job of responding and welcoming tomorrow - yesterday woke up with such an awful sinus infection - antibiotics and chills and pain you name it - all now when the sun finally came out after 20 days or rain with only two days of sun in between all that mess - this probably started with the high mold count during all the rain - gotta hit the pillow again - just a quicky to let you know I have not forgotten you.

Welcome

Showdog

Please Remember we all are Human being and Senior's. No one is perfect, Not even Me. Smile. Please keep Posting Here or any where you choose and Know that your Posts any where will be much apprcieated by me.

Barbara, I wish You Well soon.

Ginger

BarbaraMy sympathies to you. If I didn't know better, I'd think you lived in Missouri, especially the no-sun bit. (Finally here yesterday and today). Just keep hitting the pillow and get lots of sleep, and drink lots of your favorite tea and chocolate. Get someone to make you Swedish pancakes. (Is that your pana kaka, Pat?) We called them egg pancakes, and that was always our special treat when we were sick and had to spend the day in bed.

When I've been wakeful at night this week, I lie in bed and try to figure the chronology of Hanna, but there are gaps. Help me out, please.

1871 -- Birth of Hanna
1884 -- Birth of Ragnar (Hanna, age 13)
1888 - 89? -- Hanna and Broman married
18?? -- Birth of Little John
18?? -- Birth of Erik
18?? -- Birth of August
???? -- Ragnar goes to Norway
1902 -- Birth of Johanna
1905 -- Into the caves
1910 -- Death of Broman

Somewhere along the line, there is a timeline gene in my family. In any discussion there were always questions like, "Well, how old was he?, how old is she?, what year was that.? Probably a necessary thing because some members really didn't know how old they were. One of my uncles said, " My dad said i was born in '97 and my mother said'98."

Bond Ost (means good cheese) and I will take it without the caraway seeds, please. I can find it at a specialty store in Denver and a place in Estes Park where but German woman who runs that place never orders the cheese plain. I thought it might even be made in Chicago. Also, try http://www.andersonbutik.com for Scandinavian imports.

Oh, I wish that our house would sell so I could begin working on holiday things.

I should have a copy of the book in just a few days.

Barbara: Take care!

Would you believe that I have a tape of Stan Boreson (Seattle Swede) singing "Ragnar the red-nosed reindeer" - it is just a bunch of silly songs & we have played it for the kids for years at holidays - the first time we played the songs was on a long ski-trip drive from Texas to Colorado - they just moaned and groaned but secretly like the tradition of hearing it every year. He sings "I'm Glad it's Time for Lutefisk Again" - alright - that is enough of this drivel. Carol

WELCOME Sigun
so glad you found us -

And Pat you also lived among families with Swedish heritage - Your story reminds us of how difficult life was not only for those in the nineteenth century but for those that pioneered this nation. How easily we forget -

In fact last night I watched on PBS the 1940s House - they had a 1900s House where the family found it difficult and of course they did that 3 night saga of several families homesteading in Montana but 1940 is during my childhood for heavens sake - no I did not grow up with bombs all around me as those in London and all over Europe experienced but there were so many memories of food stamps and walking and bike riding and playing without store bought toys and making clothes last by mending or passing them down to the younger one and women volunteering and the housework that women did - it was all so amazing to realize how much more was accomplished in a day and how there was no processed meals - I remember when using cake mixes was a mark of a lazy housewife - now no one even bakes from a box much less from scratch - and we have all sorts of prepared meals - I thought it was interesting that when the younger grandmother was home, after the nine week experiment, she decided to walk rather than take her car shopping and to shop in the small stores for fresh foods that she cooked rather than fixing prepared meals. Evidently the money she saved was 50% compared to her old bills.

When in our story Hanna is such a compulsive cleaner because it was learned it was her only protection against the plague it makes me think if that is the origination of the kind of cleaning my grandmother practiced. I still remember her washing down the front steps to the house with a scrub brush. And every evening after dinner the chairs were wiped, placed on top of the table and the floor was scrubbed.

Wow showdog looks like you were a pioneer in the 20th century - I imagine many a family felt the loneliness you speak of - the difference I think many a family idolized the old country for the benefit of the children - or chose to remember only the best parts of life in the old country.

Ginger Thanks for the 'get wells' - at least the pain is gone but a stuffy clicking head is still with me.

Pedln yes, that was what was so unusual about having all that rain - it is not typical of Austin to be floating away as we had been. Thanks for your thoughts - and hot tea it was - I love your timeline - I need to re-read and see if I can figure out when he left for Norway.

Carol Shovein I love caraway seed - I remember caraway seeds always in the sauerkraut my mother fixed. Carol I love the site you shared - especially like the tiles - Carol tell me a bit about the Dala horses - I didn't realize they came in anything other than red - what do they symbolize - what started them as a symbol to use for decoration - or anything else you may know about them.

The big thing for my mother during the holidays was to bake and bake and bake mostly cookies - the goal was to fill this bushel basket we had with cookies that a few days before Christmas would be sorted into blue tissue paper and tied with a white ribbon and I would be the one who delivered the precious cookies. During the war all the more precious because Mom used her ration of sugar and other foods to make these cookies. We had chickens so eggs were no problem. But some of the cookies I remember included 'Sanbakkelse' baked in these little molds; 'Pepparkakor' that smelled wonderful and a fried cookie done on the last day or so 'Jortitog' and these fired Rosettes done with a little shaped iron on the end of a long handle that attached to the rosette mold - we often had these in the summer as well with strawberries and whipped cream topped on them.

Although most of us associate pancakes with Tuesday before Lent, one Friday night during advent we always had tiny Swedish pancakes with applesauce that Mom made and canned earlier in the fall. If she could swing the expense there was cranberries made into a sauce in addition to the applesauce. Since those years, I learned the Swedish Way would have been with loganberries. I never tasted loganberries till I was in my 40s and found them at a specialty shop.

Cucumbers were so easy to grow that we had cucumber salad often from a recipe that Mom had from a Swedish lady who lived nearby. We salted and drained the cucumbers is the part I remember. Mom made all sorts of things including face creams from those cucumbers. And when she peeled them we always put the skins on our foreheads and eyes.

Most of our other foods were of German origin which is where most of my family came from during the 1850s and 1860s - Had one great grandfather from Ireland and one great grandmother from Holland. The other's were all from Germany - they came from both the Rhineland and the Black Forest area.

This site has many Swedish recipes - have fun! Recipes

Hello from Sweden. We like to much in me family swedich pancakes. And we to done some likes pancakes " våfflor".I wonder if you know whot it is.And when the Cristmas come we to have pepparkakor and lutfisk.For long time ago me and my child trying done " pepparcake-house.

What fun to read about folks' memories of the foods of their younger days, especially around the holidays. My Norwegian born mother-in-law and her oldest daughter baked enough sweets to last until Easter, but the year I remember best (an interloper in the family because my background is Finnish) is the time they were making fattigman requiring frying in deep fat and I was in an early pregnancy. The whole scene made me sick! However, I recovered, ate way too much stuff and gained way too much weight that has been a problem ever since. Old traditions die hard, but now, living in Florida and away from the Scandinavian areas of the midwest, and with a diabetic husband, only token amounts are baked - and, horror of horrors, I actually buy some things. But back to Hanna, Johanna and Anna, I don't think any of them really found fulfillment in their marriages. Consciousness raising for women came a lot later, and most women of their era did what was expected of them and tried to make the best of it, and seldom knew real deep down happiness.

Barbara, hope you're feeling better. Many thanks for the Recipes link. I have bookmarked it for future browsing.

Claro, I think Hanna knew she was with a good man, that she was better off as his wife, than as a "whore." And no doubt the best thing for her was that he legitimized Ragnar. As for fulfillment, I don't think she thought about it. She accepted, as most women of her time and circumstance did. She was also very concerned about keeping up appearances -- what would people think. Ex. --If they took the wrong newspaper folks would think them socialists; what would people think if they knew Johanna could read before going to school.

Fulfillment! Hmmm - Not having any legal status was an issue that seldom came up but when it did I chaffed - I know I raised my children, all born in the 1950s before women were fully able to make choices and when women seemed to be blamed for every mishap in a family but, for the most part, I loved being a full time mother and homemaker - now there were some that would have preferred I simply be a housewife - I rebelled at that idea and believed I was creating a home. No I did not experience the hardships that some of our fore mothers experienced nor did I experience the freedom to work at any job or to expect my family would educate me beyond High School - that was something I had to do on my own since I was a girl - but fulfilled - yes, Clara I believed I was fulfilled and not just doing what was required.

I also think my grandmother was fulfilled - she had a sense of pride about herself, her garden, her long long walks, her social groups, she even had a job, not much but she took pride in it. Since my Grandfather died in a fire as a fireman she not only received a small pension but could earn money by fixing food and cleaning up at the station. No not remarkable job that todays women would have but within the area of her life she practiced the most.

Now today a young women would look at me and my grandmother as having sold out but then maybe that is our strength as you mention Clara - we adapt to what life offers and most of us face the sun rather than moaning in despair.

As to keeping up appearences - I guess I see we still do that - maybe not the same appearences - but have you noticed certain subjects are silently taboo among various groups - subjects that are usually about the brutilization of women. It seems distasteful and yet if a man is in a war experience or an altercation on the streets it is OK to publically go into all the details. Women are still shamed for many of the experiences they endure. And so where I agree we have come a long way even in my lifetime there are many miles to go.

The whole scene of Hanna running and shouting in the yard was a wonderful example of a release that today we are not supposed to feel - to get over our bad experiences we are supposed to forgive - hmmm I wonder - do we forgive or just bury and then not even have a full release because we have buried much in order to be socially pleasing. Folks do not want to see women angry or carrying an emotional burden for a long time. Oh I could go on and on about how I think society is still not opened to the plight of women regardless of the work Ophra does on TV -- We may no longer call a women a 'whore' if she is raped but we still have this concept that to be ligitmate we need to be married.

I have several friends who are dreading being alone - not the part of being alone that bothers them it is knowing they loose some of their independence and freedom. That they will have to almost fight with their children who believe they have their mother's best interest at heart but their view of her life and what she can do is different than the view my friends have of their life. They are aware they will loose some of the lifestyle and freedom they have enjoyed while they still have a husband alive and see his death as more than grieving the end of their relationship but also the end of a lifestyle they love.

And don't let me get started on the financial inequities when a women is harmed or, divorces late in life much less the average women's payscale during her working years.

Wow Pedln your and Clara's posts hit a button in me - please - I just need to rant now and again - that is a difference though - during my family years there was no ranting allowed even among women. Aha and that is still my issue that society does not like or want to hear women rant - they name them the dreaded name, 'women's libbers'

Aha Sigun I think you are speaking about what we call gingerbread houses - dark spice dough baked in the shape of walls and towers and them put together with icing. Fun to make but so hard to eat after they have been on display for a week or more.

Sigun have you read this book in Swedish?

I am in awe that you write English so well compared to my not knowing any Swedish at all - I wish Babel did a translation of English into Swedish and Swedish into English as they translate other languages.

Barbara: Hi - I will look up the meaning of the Dala horse - it is known to have originated in one area of Sweden.

I wrote a very long post and find that it didn't appear here - I now have the book so will get down to business and read. Carol

Carol isn't that just maddening when you loose a whole post - it happened to me the other night - I was so disgusted I just didn't try to capture any of what I had said in the lost post - GREAT and HURRAH you have your book - nothing fancy as to her story telling - rather straight forward without a lot of symbolisms - I bet you get right into it.

I did a bit of research and evidently this author is well known and well published in Europe.

Sigun found this nice site about Swedish History: 1914 - 1945

Thank you Sigun and Barbara for the new Swedish site. I found this information on the Dala Horse http://www.moramn-chamber.com/dala.html

Yes, I am getting "into" the book. Carol

Nice to read about the Dala horse... Yes, it is certainly a Swedish symbol wherever you go.

I have cousins still living in Sweden and now with Internet we can email so much faster than the old mailing. The children of one cousin write me to practice their English and the youngest is 7 and has been studying English now for 18 months.

They live near Linkoping and raise chickens much like our large chicken farms in this country.

Well, I better get back to the book and Ragnar makes out when he goes to serve in the military.

What a great group here! Lots of new faces too! So glad to have all of you. I have put a "hold" on this book at the library and am really looking forward to it. I am from San Francisco and know absolutely nothing nada niente rien about Sweden. We have a Swedish community in Northern California but it is not a culture that I ever have been exposed to. That makes this book all the more intriguing to me.

Want to learn about Sweden. A search in the 'Net will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about it!

or, perhaps, ClaraO, the great group assembled here will educate me! You among them, perhaps???

Sorry if my last post sounded a bit snippy! I've been having such a good time searching the 'Net on miscellaneous topics in my early morning hours that I'll bet google will come up with thousands of sites in an instant. I just used a bit of Thanksgiving humor for a women's group here and they loved the story about how Martha Stewart will not be a part of their Thanksgiving dinner - could relate to it well because there was little gracious living while we were raising our five sons, and now I'm just too tired to bring out the good silver and dishes for any meal. Actually, I couldn't get a balanced meal on the table for my husband (Alzheimer's) and son without the help of the modern food industry. Anyway, back to Sweden and Hanna and such, I'm Finnish, my hubby came from Norway, and all I can say is that some of my best friends are Swedish. Have a fantastic day!

can't help myself, gotta say, "I like being recognized as a liberal, and a libber"

We have a right to be who we are. That right was won by all the women before us who insisted on being treated like human-beings.

Now I will get off my soapbox, go directly to the library or book store and get "Hanna's Daughters". maybe I'll slip in here again...

Nnnoooo, ClaraO - didn't find it snippy at all!

Now where's our Barbara? I was just notified by the library that my copy of the book is IN, so I'll get it tomorrow and join in.

NB: I'm leading the discussion of Bel Canto starting on the 20th, so I'll be back and forth a bit, but hope to do my best!

Love that, catbird!

I had to finish the book because we are so busy this week, so, I do hope that I can remember the story.

It was interesting to read about the Swedes in WWII and Germans in the area. I have been trying to find more information on that era. If anyone knows of a better book, please let me know.

Also, it is considered very bad manners to be boastful and talk about self and accomplishment - although there are exceptions to every case. It is just expected that a person does everything perfect and says "no big deal" or, "it was nothing" when complemented. That is part of the culture and how Hanna was with her daughter - I suppose especially true of the feelings toward girls. Carol

Hanna had a hard life, to be sure. What gave her pleasure, what made her happy? Anything? I think that Ragnar was one bright spot in her life; it sounds like he had the gift of making those around him happy. Broman was a good man, and I think she appreciated him, but did he bring her happiness?

Carol, I found the Swedish/German relationship interesting, also. I knew Sweden had been neutral during both world wars, but I guess I'd always thought all the Scandinavian countries were pretty much the same, especially politically. Guess not. Had never really thought about Sweden's vulnerability and closeness to both Germany and Russia.

Good Saturday morning, all! Y'know what? I've come to the conclusion, after reading the book for the second time to get it more firmly into my head, that I really prefer to read for pleasure if I don't have to analyze too much. It is a good read, and I've enjoyed the messages that were posted, but I must confess that I live in the present, try not to dwell too much on the past, and just take each day as it comes. When my sons were in school I had the feeling that the pleasure of reading anything was somewhat diminished because of the need to analyze so much. Fortunately, they are all good readers to this day, as are my grandchildren. Just my opinion - but in my old age I feel free to express it! Reactions, anyone?

pedln: What made Hanna happy? A sense of accomplishment and work - I know just how she felt when she had some of the living room furniture stored so she could keep active in the winter working a loom.

ClaraO: I enjoy reading for pleasure at and also hearing another interpretation.

This is off the subject, has anyone read "The Dress Lodger"? Don and I really enjoyed the story - I cannot remember the author but she has written at least two other books and it is an excellent read. Carol

I am enjoying the book very much but read slower than most as others seem to be far ahead. I try not to read some of the posts that give away the story. It reminds me somewhat of a book I read a long time ago called April Snow. I will be looking for the book The Dress Lodger the next time I'm at the library.

Sorry I've been away for the last 5 days - my heart is breaking and my head is in a muddle - a long time young friend has some serious family problems with her 12 year old son and in today's world that means regardless of your education, desire to do the correct thing, the fact that you have isolated the boy, arranged for counseling for him, his sister and the family, have the resources to take care of the family when there is a crisis - if you go to a therapist they are obligated to report and the child welfare society removes your children even the 4 year old - Oh the trauma to the girls, especially the little one - the legal cure is now more traumatizing and re-victimizes the victims whose power is taken when they are abused.

Of course reading our book where women are raped by family members and now this along with so many of my own issues - My head has been in a muddle since my inner rage over abuse is like a time bomb, always there ticking -

Now I see there are so many more shades of pain and abuse. The relationship you have with the perpetrator and where the amount of self control we expect because of age does not make the behavior tolerable, it sure allows for a belief that with proper training a cure is possible in one so young. I guess I believe a 12 year old can learn how to handle both his desire for power to get what he wants and his immerging sexuality. Where I know there is no cure for perpetrators of sexual abuse which does not decrease with age, where as, a rapist has different issues and, without treatment, a rapist no longer offends when they are old.

I also see that mothers with good intentions, who regularly attend 12 step meetings and not only attend but are volunteers for parenting classes cannot control their sons, and like any of us, we do not dream we must protect our daughters from family members. This is when I wonder if our social services are really helping or, are we all reacting emotionally to what has only recently been spoken about so publicly and featured on every other TV show - that we want a fix and we are making demands on child welfare who are not acting humanly as they are so concerned that someone would be further injured they have these sweeping rules that end up traumatizing children.

Then on top of it all I had to be "on" or as the women in our book, "secretive" as I worked since Thursday at the Texas Book Festival held each year using the State Capitol and its grounds.

With all of this I am in a muddle - I did finish reading the book early last week - the issues at hand make me wonder if the legacy of women is more brutal then any of like to admit therefore we hide it with our sentimental talk of what is good.

The sentences etc. sounded almost like my family talking - until WW2 German was their first language and sentences in English were always backwards. I remember having such a hard time in my early grades trying to write out compositions that came from my experience and my head but on paper were all backwards. I too had children laugh at some of my sentence structure during my early years in school. Now I have forgotten just about all my German but what I find interesting is when I visited Germany and Austria about 15 years ago - I could understand most of what was being said directly to me but I could not translate it or answer back in German.

I thought each of the women's story was told in such a way that I really had a feel for the time in history they lived. What did amaze me is that Johanna had not until her middle years even visited as far as Stockholm and even Anna had not visited other cities in the world. I wonder if that is more an American thing that most of us have traveled across this nation and many of us have visited other nations if only the country from which our families emmigrated.

The story brought up another issue I do not hear as much about any longer - there was always this issue of suicide in the Scandenavian countries - it is brought into the story so matter of factly - I remember in my family there being conversations trying to deduce the cause - the long winter without sunlight was one mentioned that caused depression followed by suicide and the other was that Scandenavian people had a reputation for drinking that seems to go hand in hand with depression.

I had an uncle that committed suicide - amazing how it was never discussed - I am thinking most secrets are attached to shame and then the habit of secrets spills over into other aspects of living.

Well I am back and will look at the focus questions suggested in the links but I am thinking there are a few other questions I would love for us to chat about - like -

• Was there a statement by any of these women that would stay with you -
• Is there an idea in the book, new to you that would make a difference in your life in your place within your own family -

Barbara, welcome back -- you have been missed. I'm sorry for the trauma you and your friend have been through. It sounds dreadful, and without easy solution. I hope for your friend's sake, that something can be done without going to extremes.

I haven't finished the book, not wanting to get ahead of the discussion. As for "statement" or "new idea" I can't put my finger on any right this minute, but one thing I've been thinking about and probably can't explain, is that as daughters we take our mothers as they are, and do not consider what has molded them. At Ragnar's birthday, all of a sudden, as she did the math, Johanna realized that her mother gave birth at age 13, was impregnated at age12. She knew then that the stories of how much Hanna had loved Ragnar's father were untrue, that 12 year olds didn't develop that kind of passionate love. As she questioned Hanna and talked with her, she developed a better understanding of her mother, altho it did not necessarily bring her closer.

Sometimes moments like that just jump out. I had never really noted or thought about, until recently that my mother lost both her husband and mother in the same year.

Yes, pedln that was an instance that jumped out that for me also, which I thought tied to one of the last thoughts in the book, when Anna realizes she was not interested in her mother as a person, only as a mother. This bit bowled me over.

I realized that is an issue between me and my grown children - an issue that now that I've read it here helps me sort out my children's reactions toward me - how they brag on their children as if I am supposed to give them a gold star - rather than just sharing a wonderful event or the achievment of one of the grandboys that they are happy about they say it in such a way that I am supposed to react - I usually become confused as if I am put in a postion that I am offering approvel to them because my grandboys did this or that, as if my congratulations is me sitting in a stadium cheering them rather than being on the field playing and being happy with them - It is as if they were children and still need me to watch as I did when they first swam or rode their bikes, only it is now, watch what their children are achieving - now I understand why - I am only their mother and that is also why they have shown little curiosity about my childhood or young adult life.

Hmmm somehow I need to say something - maybe they are simply wanting encouragement to think of me as a person - I hope that is all and it is not because they still have issues that they are still playing out - if so, I am dense and have no clue - ah so and the family goes on...

Barbara: Per your e-mail questions, I liked the book, I did complete the book, the worst part was when Hanna was raped and then ignored, or, villified by the village. I cannot say if this book is useful or not.

I will be interested in other comments. Carol

Carol I also liked the book - but it left me with a mixed reaction - I liked the view of these women since they seemed to me to profile how the difficulties of being a women was handled by each of them based within the time they lived and societies reactions to their plights -

But it feels like we are being bombarded with stories of the sexual misconduct by men that women have been experiencing. Where I wish society had a more confident attitude that did not include opinion making or hysteria or being so uneducated to the issues, and I realize this will only happen when society accepts this degradation as a constant therefore, they begin to understand; I guess I find it hard to really enjoy a book with this thread running through the story. Or maybe it is because I judged this book by its cover literally, as well as the reviews - I was not prepared for the theme to include women contending with sexual misconduct generation after generation although it appears to be more true to life than I am still comfortable admitting.

I think the author did a great job of including some of the corner stones of literature for the various generations - the nineteenth century being so much about the mass move from country life to city life and the industrialization of those cities and here we have Hanna experiencing this move and how it affected her life. It seemed to have a greater negative affect on her boys.

And the whole issue of having words to express what is within - several of the characters including Hanna and to a degree Johanna were described as without words - they have been saying how those who name things are part of the power process as opposed to going along without a sense of ownership over their lives. And yet, in spite of having or not having words I thought Hanna especially was a real judge of character - in her simple descriptions she nailed it where even I would have had difficulty seeing the inner core of some of these other characters.

More than ever I wonder about the choice of graphic for the book cover of the American version - it is as if the publisher is keeping the secret alive by showing this pretty and intricate embroidered handwork that yes, women accomplished during their 'free' time but it is so deceptive to the experiences in their lives. hmmm maybe that is it - so many women had to play a role of deceit which was their big secret from the world. And secrets never get fixed. I guess If I knew the subject matter I would not have purchased the book...

Barbara, thanks for the e-mail with all the questions. Now that the book is back at the library it's messages linger with me. My favorite question in the whole book is the one about what happens when one truth bursts into a thousand truths (or something like that) because there are so many facets to every situation, from the simple negative opinion of Hanna about God thru the generations when each faced new and different circumstances. My life has been that way big time from a pious and devoted Lutheran, religion major, church worker, etc., through years of active involvement as our sons grew up in a Presbyterian congregation in a suburb north of Chicago. My feelings about religion ranged from active inquisitive study to lots of doubts to near atheism after attending the Parliament of the World's Religions in Chicago in 1993 - such an eye opener to see folks from all around the world representing their own beliefs - thousands in attendance representing about 700 different religions. There really are thousands of truths - so we celebrate our diversity. I'm just thankful that I wasn't born a few generations ago when life was really tough for women - it's been good to become an assertive and questioning woman in an age that was almost ready to give us our due. After all, we hold up half the sky! Hanna's Daughters is a good read - now I look forward to Bel Canto which will be waiting for me at the library in a day or so.

Maybe that was the reason the book was written, as an encouragement to women to open up more, be more assertive.
I have read up to the automobile...not a lot of reading time. I would never have chosen this book if I hadn't come across this discussion, so I'm happy to have come across this discussion. I am enjoying the book and can find pieces of my life in it.

ClaraO sounds like you are on the road to spiritual discovery - Hurrah - what a wonderful journey you are embarking on - there are so many religions as you have become so acutely aware - and they all seem to say they have the key to a good life and a good after-life - it is hard finding the right key for your door - I too had too much disagreement with my religion that I soon realized it was the organization that is and always have been in the power game - I have found though reading and reading in addition to other devotions from a variety of sources that bottom line, each religion is built on the past with each religion adjusting their version adjusted by those in power at the time.

I remember doing so much more research when we read the Red Tent and learned how even early Judaism was in reaction to the many gods celebrated by what we now refer to as pagan religions. And amazing still is, how the symbols for these older gods were still used by even Moses whose staff is a symbol for a goddess whose name I have forgotten, but a powerful and very acknowledged goddess. That since Judaism followed by Christianity there is a heavy patriarchal bent to all western religions. And each group conveniently denies various Bibles and they all are going to have to adjust since finally money has been put into archeology and they are learning through digs and other research what really happened during old and ancient times.

In my spiritual journey I've done a great deal of reading of the eastern religions and have chosen to dwell on Taoism for the past 16 years. It was so easy since there are so many similarities with the contemplative side of Christian religions. We know Jesus studied in Asia Minor just as some of the apostles preached in Persia and other areas of Asia and so, it is easy to see the eastern influence in Christianity.

Good luck on your journey - CarolO at times I find it very lonely since most folks practicing their faith within a certain religion want to justify their choice and do not want their faith shaken.

And yes, your point about a truth being a 1000 truths - so true isn't it - a great thought that I had not picked up while reading - without getting to philosophical, just the simple telling of a story within a family and we soon observe how we each tell it with a different slant since we had observed it from a different perspective. I am so glad you shared these views CarolO.

Annie3 great point about women opening up more - was with a group of 5 women last night and it is interesting to hear how they either gloss over the hurts in their life or say something sarcastic that we all get the gest of without any explanation. Maybe we would be served going through the uncomfort of using our words and having a proper reaction to the injustices so many of us have experienced. But I have learned that folks do not like it when a women shows her anger or her pain and sadness. We have a difficult time accepting it among women and so we cannot blame that one on collective society can we.

It is hard isn't it to imagine what it as like to have no other sounds day after day through out your life other than the sounds of family voices and nature - I doubt if Hanna even had the ticking of a clock for company. I have shut everything off in this house and still there is a low drone from refrigerator motors and a distant low hum of vehicles on a busier through fare in town. Now if I do travel to a place of utter quiet - it is only for the time I am there not my daily relationship with living. I think of this as I imagined Ragnar's vehicle coming through the forest as a sound that only brought up fear of danger for Hanna, her family and neighbors. Annie3 lots of good reading ahead for you -- and thank you for sharing! I was so impressed not only with your garden site but that you are part of a cycle of sites dwelling on gardens - hurrah for you!

Had an e-mail from Hats - she has really enjoyed reading our posts but found she was not able to keep up the reading pace - other things in her life left her less time - it was nice to hear from her.

We will leave the discussion open till just before Thanksgiving - if anyone has any more thoughts please just post them - but I Think we have all shared about as much as we can after reading this book and many of you are on to reading and discussing Bel Canto. In addition I know holiday preperation is beginning to poke holes into my reading time -

Thank You for your participation - and thanks again to those of you who shared your Swedish heritage - the photos were a treat for us to see.

Barbara: Thank you for inviting me in here. It has been so enjoyable. I don't know if I can keep up with the house still up for sale - actually, no one has been here for two weeks so I should just put my feet up and relax <LOL> Carol

Carol I am so glad you joined us - and yes, it is horrible to have your home on the market isn't it - everything is in ready waiting and you feel like you are half living because the phone could ring any moment with someone wanting to see the house - I feel for you- I am a Real Estate Broker and I feel for all my sellers - the holidays here are usually slow - with such low interest rates though who is to tell this year if will remain this slow till after Christmas or not - I suspect it will though - low rates or not I think everyone wants a homey Christmas this year and only after the holidays will folks think about buying a house. The worst part of having your house on the market is trying to take a nap - hope you can take your lockbox inside for that hour - until Chirstmas you might ask your agent if she could fix it so that you can take your lockbox in for an hour in the afternoon so that there are no suprise visits.

Just wanted to say thank you for noticing my web site and the nice words. Still enjoying my book which is due back at the library on the 29th so will have it read by then. Then I will look back again at all the posts regarding the book. So happy to have found such and interesting, book to escape into. ...and Happy Thanksgiving all.

Barbara: Well, it all evens out - we have sold three homes in record time in the past and the last one was within 22 hours - before the sign was even up and I had a quilt I was sewing for son's wedding present spread out all over the floor because I thought I would have a couple of days = they walked around the quilt and three couples were bidding for the place. This was 3 1/2 years ago in the same town. Worst part has been the slip ups from the RE company and we have had people show up without appointments 4 times - we are always ready because we have been through this before but it is not easy and today a gal phoned to cancel an appointment because of weather and I told her that I did not have any message and she said, oh yes I called you. We will take it off the market in Jan Feb & then start all over again. Thanks - I understand very well about selling houses but can always learn something new. I'll just nap in January.... Carol

Barbara, thanks so much for leading this discussion, and many thanks also to all of you who posted. The book discussions at SeniorNet Books are like none I've ever participated in before, and I truly savor them. I enjoy not only the discussion of the book itself, but also learning about the backgrounds and experiences that everyone brings to the discussion.

Happy holidays to you all. Hope to see you again soon on Books.

Carol, good luck with the house. I hope a buyer turns up real soon.

Annie3 the suggestion is to archive this discussion by Thanksgiving Day which they will probably archive it on Wednesday - and so be sure to share any last minute thoughts that may come up for you as you finish reading the book - interesting how this book stays with me - just sort of hanging out in a corner of my mind and heart - I cannot put my finger on it yet why - it certainly is different than the usual fair - somehow it reminds me a bit or Rosemary Pilcher's work.

Carol when you said you would withdraw your home from the market in January and February my instinctive reaction was - what are you thinking that is the best time - till I realized you are in snow country aren't you - and so like a bear you could hibernate - we have the same thing going on here, houses that sold for more than asking price within hours of being placed in the MLS are now taking months to sell and the prices have slipped - not badly like the mid-80s, more like '94. We are so tied to High Tech which is not hiring - I wonder if that is your story as well - I'll be thinking of you and good luck.

Pedln I've been curious - what 'cape' is on the Mississippi? And yes, I agree with you, our understanding of a book is so much greater isn't it as we read other's perceptions of the same words that we have read one way and another because of their life experience can read something else into those very same words. Amazing - Aren't you reading Bel Canto? - I have the book and just have not started reading it - so much to do just now and on the First of December I am to start Atonement -

So many books and so many I really want to read - this is pledge week on PBS so maybe I will get caught up reading since my favorite shows will not be on. Although, they brought in a few additional half hour episodes of some of my favorite Brit Coms. - If I just had the will power to shut PBS off I would get so much more accomplished.

Looks like we are going to have pouring down rain and cold temps during this holiday week - I drive over to my sons in Collage Station on Wednesday and there is a 60% chance of rain with the temps in the 40s and 50s - brrr - after over a week of sunshine in the mid 70s this will be quite a change. Stay warm folks and wishing for you that y'all can create a wonderful holiday.

Barbara, -- to answer your question

THIS CAPE --

http://rosecity.net/river/

I'm reading both Bel Canto and Atonement and enjoying both of them.

Ha - Wonderful I had no idea Pedln - and so you are up north on the Mississippi - can you actually walk across it - that seems amazing to me - the web site is grand with all kinds of information - great, I love it -

Looking forward to your joining us during our read of Atonement Pedln - I do believe we are going to hustle on this one - and we may get a late start as well, although, I will be there on Sunday, probably in the afternoon. MmeW and Alf are out of town for Thanksgiving and will be back early next week and there has been mention of wanting to be finished discussing this before Christmas. We will leave the site up for more comments but, the lions share of the reading and discussing will be scheduled to be completed by the weekend before Christmas. It is an interesting book with some author twists that shake, rattle and roll many that have read the book.

Ok folks, in light especially of our graphic above "Washing Day" - PLEASE pleeeaaassseeee - would you call 1-800-457-8739 and ask them when they are going to remake La France -

I do not know how I will wash my white curtains - I have used La France since 1953 when my first baby was in diapers and used La France on his delicates than the other babies clothes and even my own whites too delicate for clorax. They quit making La France over a year ago and I only learned of this when I tried to replace my near empty giant box two weeks ago - **I want La France back** - they say Borateem is the same but it isn't...plus, it doesn't have the blueing -

They say the demand is not there - well today's young homemakers do not know the glory of La France much less Borax or Borateem. The Dial company never advertise any of it. The young homemaker of today does not wash loads of diapers nor many whites that are delicate - they do not even wear slips for heavens sake so how could they know to buy La France. I do know white Tshirts look spectacular when washed in La France.

IF YOU CALL - FOR YOUR EFFORT - YOU WILL RECEIVE ***FREE... coupons for 50 cent off 20 Mule Team Borax and 50 cents off either liqued or dry Borateem and a great little 20 Mule Team Guide that even includes how to dry flowers with borax.

Barbara- just got this book and Atonement from the library. Am trying to read both at the same time - while leading the Bel Canto discussion!

So far, liking both of them - and loved Bel Canto!

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Thank you all for your participation. This discussion is being archived and is now Read Only.