Hannibal is selling for 1/2 price on Barnes & Noble, since it is on the Times Best seller list. $27.95 reduced to $13.97.

Lorrie:

I have not read the book and, to be honest, do not have time at the moment to read it. But I did see the movie, "Silence of the Lambs" and I am a Clinical Psychologist. The combination of those two will keep me lurking, however, to see what develops.

Robby

Hey, Robby! It's good to hear from you. I'm glad you'll be here, whether lurking or not. Maybe from time to time we can get some input from you in regard to some of the psychological aspects of the characters. I haven't finished the book yet, but from what I can see so far, Dr. Lecter isn't the only one who could use a shrink. Keep posting, please! Lorrie

Lorrie, I hope to be able to join the discussion if I get the book in time from the library. However, don't wait on me if you want to go ahead with the discussion since I don't always get the books read.

Larry

Lorrie:

Would you make some comments about the book to help stimulate my interest?

Robby

I'm just finishing the Red Dragon and I'm not sure I want to read Hannibal, but I have my name on the list and it shouldn't be long till I have it.

Robby, we've decided to put off any in-depth discussion for a couple weeks, because so many people have to wait to get a copy of the book from their libraries. I would like to comment here, though, that the reviews of HANNIBAL have been very mixed. Personally, I'm only into the fifth chapter, and I'm fascinated. Harris has created a secondary character, (Mason Verger) who is almost as terifying, in his way, as Hannibal. I won't say anything more now, keep checking in here. It's good to hear from you. And welcome, Pat amd Larry!

Dino de Laurentis will be doing the movie, and it was announced that Anthony Hopkins and Jody Foster will reprise their earlier roles.

I started "Hannibal" last night and read about 35 pages. It gets off to a fast start and the main character is already in trouble. Am looking forward to further reading and our upcoming discussion beginning on the 13th.

Larry

Jackie, I was delighted to find out that DeLaurentis is going to do the Hannibal movie with the original stars! It wouldn't seem the same with anybody but Anthony Hopkins and Jody Foster. Larry, I'm so glad you finally got a copy, and Robby, I hope you can join in when we really get going on this thriller on Fridday. I'm just now finishing the book, and I have to tell you, I can't seem to put it down! Lorrie

Lorrie:

I haven't had time to read the book but I'm hanging around!

Robby

Robby, it's funny you should use that expression, because the Italian police Inspector who is chasing Hannibal believes that one of his ancestors was hanged along with an archbishop in 1478, for attempting to murder one of the de Medici's, but more about that later. Lorrie

What if I had said I'm just killing time?

Robby

That's a great response! I know I'll think of something witty to answer in a minute. To get back to HANNIBAL, I'm about three quarters of the way through, and I'm really impressed with Harris' research into the art and architectural beauties of Florence, Italy. It's obvious that he spent a great deal of time there, and despite the grim plot of the story, I do enjoy reading about all the medaeval history within those beautiful palazzos. I read somewhere that Harris is extremely publicity shy, and I have an idea that Italy was where he was hiding in that long time between books. Has anybody else heard about this? Lorrie

This is just a note to all you readers who have "peeked in" and are either about to read, or have read the new best-seller "Hannibal". We welcome you all and invite you to join in and tell us your impressions of this somewhat controversial novel. Come join us! Lorrie

I have just finished Red Dragon, since that was the only Harris book, that my library had.

Is the Hannibal in Red Dragon the same character in the book you are reading?

Does the author explain why the character is named Hannibal? Strange name?

Ginny

Pat, this is the same Hannibal from both "Silence of the Lambs" and the "Red Dragon". A very intelligent man, apparently, but a totally dispicable human being (if he can be considered human).

In this new book we are introduced to another sick mind, Mason Vector, who years ago was a victim of Hannibal Lecter. He has some unpleasantness planned for Hannibal if he can just find and capture him.

Lorrie, interesting observation on Harris. I certainly expect you are right in your feeling that he has spent a lot of time in Florence, Italy.

I think I learned more about swine that I really wanted to know and expect there will be more later in the book.

Larry

Larry, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the villain in the Red Dragon was an entirely different person from that of the Hannibal (Dr. Hannibal Lecter) of Silence of the Lambs and now its sequel.Hannibal. I thought the tattooed man with the mouthpiece who befriended the blind girl in the Red Dragon was a different person, albeit any less foreboding. Besides, wasn't he killed outright? I could be wrong, it's been years since I read that book. I guess another trip to he library is in order. Lorrie

Woops! I just checked out the reviews of Red Dragon and now I remember that yes, Dr. Lecter had a minor characterization in that book, although an evil one. What threw me off was that he wasn't the primary villain, although he did assist in his downfall, just as he did in "Lambs" with the Buffalo Killer. You know, for a man of impeccable taste (is there a pun here?) Hannibal sur knows some unsavory characters, doesn't he?

Yes, but Dr. Hannibal Lecter, in Red Dragon, was in a maximum security institution. How did he get out? if he did?

I am now #3 on the bool list at a different library. My own library has not purchased the book.

I have not read the book and, for the present, don't have time to read it but I am "lurking" because the topic is interesting.

Robby

Good question, Pat. How did Lecter get out of the maximum security prison? I think I'm going to have to go back and look at parts of that book again. By the way, I liked the movie version of that Red Dragon book. It didn't get as much hoopla as Lambs, though. Lorrie Lurk all you want, Robby. You're very welcome.

I bought the book today so hope by next week I can say somthing half way decent! hahahahah but will guarantee nothing. It's interesting what people say about authors as a result of what they write. I remember the uproar about Shirley Jackson's THE LOTTERY and she always maintained she was just an average housewife. I think she was a bit more than that, tho, if you read her biographers. Am interested now, in this Harris, and have not read the first book so will have to go on what I see in this one.

Ginny

Good to hear from you, Ginny! I know that this particular type of book doesn't appeal to many people, and I'm hoping we can hear from them, too. Not everyone has the steely nerves that we dyed-in-the-wool horror fans have, and with this story of "Hannibal the Cannibal" I think it all boils down to a matter of taste, if you'll forgive me a horrible pun. I personally like the characters created by Harris, even though I've never met anyone remotely like his villains, unless you count my high school math teacher who almost flunked me.

Hi: There is an excellent film version of Red Dragon that was made in 1986 titled MANHUNTER.

The director is Micahel Mann ( who was responsible for the TV series Miami Vice).

It's a gripping thriller that rubs one's nose in a sick criminal mentality.....It has a similar plot line that takes an FBI agent into the mind of a killer (sound familiar?)

I suggest it for anyone reading Hannibal. I know you'll like it.

Thanks, Lorrie,you're right, it's probably not to everyone's taste, but now having read half of it (it's a fast read, isn't it?) at one sitting I find it's not as bad as I had feared and I have a LOT of questions on the first half.

Keep in mind I neither saw the movie with Anthony Hopkins nor read the first book.

I think Harris writes very well, you're swept into the story at once.

Was this Mason character in the first book or series?

I stumble over his appearance: modern plastic surgery can do miracles, I dispute his having to go around like that, they have created whole faces for people with none, even a Phantom of the Opera type mask?

I thoguht this was an interesting statement on page 55: "There is a common emotion we all recognize and have not yet named--the happy anticipation of being able to feel contempt."

That's not one of my favorite emotions, seems strange to see it here?? What did you think of this? Is this the author peeking thru at us?

Having been to Florence last year, I, of course, was immediately caught up in the romance of the references, the book is a remembrance of so many images, will try to scan in Botticelli's Primaveraunless I can use one of Pat W's sites.

How about that gypsy with the wooden arm!! I didn't see any like that!

"I do not like thee, Doctor Fell." Thought the Dr. Fell was a bit unimaginative, did you?

Did Harris have to treat Gnocco the way he did to prepare the reader for Pazzi's treatment (trying to aviod spilling beans here)?

This is not what it's reputed to be, at least not so far, tho I'm half way thru. There's a dryness to it? It makes you breathless to go forward, but not frightened like King does?

At least I'm not, yet. Dr. Fell seems pretty dry, to me? Wierd, yes, sick yes, dry, tho.

Ginny

Wow, Ginny, you really have been absorbing what you have read! I can't remember any particular emphasis on the character Mason in any other of Harris' books, but he may have been mentioned briefly as another of Hannibal's victims. Yes, I agree about how he describes Mason's "face"--it struck me as being a little far-fetched, too. However, I personally liked the quote you mentioned on page 55. I think that Harris is showing a great deal of irony here, as he seems to do all through the book. More later Lorrie

Hi, Ed! Yes, the movie "Manhunter" based on the Red Dragon was very good! I sort of like that actor named Peterson? who played the lead, and in some respects, it was a little less virulent than the later "Silence of the Lambs>" I'm coming down the road to the ending of "Hannibal now, and I tell you, this is really unexpected! Can't say any more! Lorrie

Ginny, do you mean the name Dr. Fell? Yes, it does lack imagination. I'm surprised Hannibal didn't use an Italian name. After all, he was part Italian on his mother's side. In my opinion, Harris has a better grasp of words than King, but you're right, King is actually a little more suspensful, at least at the beginning of this book. Not to fear, it doesn't stay dry for long. And poor Gnocco apparently had to go in order to prepare the reader for the Italian policeman's demise. Lorrie

Lorrie, your post #26 had me chuckling. That was a "terrible pun" but great. It has been awhile since I read the last Harris book and had almost forgotten the the villians but you reminded me. If you recall Hannibal escaped when he was moved to Tennessee and managed to kill his guards and disappear.

Since I have never been overseas I am finding all of the descriptions of Florence distracting from the story but agree with Ginny that it is a fast read.

Larry

Thanks Larry, For telling about Hannibal escaping. That's what I asked before, if it was the same Hannibal and how did he get out of that maximum security he was in, in the first book.

Thanks, Larry, now I remember how this wily villain escaped the first time. I want to tell you, I finally finished the book last week, and I'm thinking that I'll have to change my opinion on this sequel entirely. I don't want to go into the details now, I'm still in a state of bewilderment.

Robby, if you happen to be lurking nearby, tune in. I have a question about this book I'd like to ask you. Meantime, I must admit that I really admire the way Harris can flesh out his characters. For instance, Krendler is so comletely oily, isn't he? Lorrie

I didn't read the book, Lorrie. At the start I indicated that I might not have time to read the book but was lurking because the psychological aspects of it interests me.

Robby

Actually, Robbie, the question I wanted to ask you was this: As a psychologist, is it your opinion that a writer, like Harris, who writes about such horrific people, has to be a little bit mad himself? Or is it simply the result of an extremely vivid imagination? I've read that Poe was almost a basket case, and what kind of a man was Lovecraft? Lorrie

Oh well, it's got plenty of psychological aspects, all right!! hahahaha, will let Lorrie phrase them! hahahahaha

Well I have finished the book, and am....not sure of the words. Larry, if you thought you read about pigs you ain't seen nothing yet.

I'll hold off till everybody is finished, tho I must say, in answer to Lorrie's post about Krendler, I'm not sure any of these people are what you'd want to meet on a dark street. None of them, save, curiously, Lecter, seem to have any redeeming values or saving graces, and his is mostly in the form of table manners and art appreciation.

You can tell the author likes Lecter and that the author is scared out of his shoes by the possibilities of terror in his life. At least that's the idea I get.

Remorseless characters remorselessly being hateful to each other. Except for the protagonist.

Stil a fast read, will be intersted to see what those of you who have seen the movie or read the first book make of it.

Ginny

Lorrie:

No, a person who writes that type of stuff does not at all have to be mad himself. However, there probably were incidents in his life that led to his being interested in that type of subject. And, as you say, a vivid imagination doesn't hurt a bit.

Robby

Yes, A good example of that is Stephen King, for instance. He writes about such macabre things and yet I understand he leads a perfectly normal every-day life with his novelist wife and children, except when he isn't recovering from an automobile accident.

I agree, Ginny. I also got the feeling that Harris, unlike the way he pictured Lecter in "Silence, etc" seems to have a real sort of sympathy for the evil psychiatrist. He certainly didn't pull any punches when he described Mason Verger. Ugh! Lorrie

I was interested in one of the statements in the book to the effect that (paraphrased, I thought I had marked it, but it seems I haven't) vampires kept to a particular territory but cannibals roamed freely.

Here the author, even though this is a book of fiction, assumes we agree that there are such things as vampires (other than the vampire bat) today and that cannibals also are roaming amongst us.

The sentence took me aback as until that point I had not made any connection with Dr. Lecter and Dracula, but I do now see some similarities in their depiction. What realm would we say this book inhabits? What sort of fiction IS it? Would you call it fantasy? Horror? What, exactly?

I was not aware there was a cannibal movement extant? I am not familiar with the history of cannibalism, though one has heard stories of African tribes (pygmy cannibals) and people under extreme duress (the Donner party). But as a way of life for a cultured person? Not hardly.

The mention of "Green Grows the Holly" had me humming all day, Henry VIII was actually quite an accomplished composer/ musician. Will try to find the midi and put it in here along with the other one ,"If Love now Reigned," which I didn't recognize right off the bat.

I'm not clear on the concept of "memory palaces," don't know what that means.

Isn't a "starling" a bird which pushes out the young of others and takes its place?

How about that mirror from Vaux-le-Vicomte? Doesn't that seem a stretch of the imagination?

Ginny

Yes, it does exist, just think back on the not too distant past history of Jeffrey Dahmer, or that soccer team from the Central American country who resorted to it after a plane crash? Still, Harris doesn't allude to that aspect so much until near the very ending, which I won't go into now. When I read this book, I became fascinated by the descriptions of the art treasures and palazzos of Florence. You're so lucky to have visited this lovely city, Ginny! I have this feeling that when Harris was out of the picture so long (ostensibly to write this sequel) he holed himself up in Florence, and immersed himself in medieval Italian history. I could be wrong. Whatever, I do admire the research. I feel that the chase by the Italian policeman to finally catch Dr. Lecter (Dr. Fell) was very suspensful and exciting, especially using the two gypsies. Lorrie

Lorrie, OK, just for the sake of discussion of this one point: cannibalism, let me ask if the incidence of one Jeffery Dahmer who is obviously very sick, means that there's an actual movement afoot? The soccer team thing would be, I would think, an example oft repeated unfortunately, in times of extreme distress? But, Robby, maybe this is in your ballpark, does this actually exist as a type of mental illness: cannibalism? I know there's some sort of necrology movement or fetish, but am not sure about the other.

Another example is Il Mostro who just shot at 5 year olds in a Jewish School. I note the papers are immediately starting with the racism and anti semitic movements as explanation, but surely this was not that sort of act, these were tiny children who could not have hurt anybody (and also who could not have threatened the shooter back?)

I think when some monstrous thing happens people become afraid and wonder how that might have occurred and need explanations, other than the fact that the person who did the act was insane. A nut is a nut. I think we have swung pretty far in trying to "understand" some of these people, I personally have no need to understand this gentleman, and I hope the jury won't, either.

Of course, I have no earthly idea how anybody could eat horse meat, so there you are.

Ginny

Ginny:

A person like Jeffrey Dahmer who cuts people into pieces and eats some of the meat would be doing what, in our society, is considered "irrational" and would probably be diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. On the other hand, people marooned as they were in the Andes mountains and were just trying to survive were doing something "rational." To try to stay alive makes sense.

Notice, I also used the phrase "in our society." Diagnosing a person with a particular disorder is often related to the society in which he lives. Someone in our society who is hearing the voice of his ancestor five generations ago might be seen as someone having a hallucination and therefore sick. In some primitive society, it would be considered as perfectly rational and therefore not sick.

I haven't read the book but I would suggest that as the actions are examined, it would depend upon who is doing the examining and from what perspective.

Robby

Robby, in your opinion is it possible for a trained psychiatrist to induce another person to do something horrendous? I believe that's what Dr. Lecter did to the patient in the next cell in Silence of the Lambs. A sort of induced auto-hypnosis? As Barney told the FBI agent, he did it simply because the other prisoner had offended Clarice. That was a very interesting point about what is and isn't acceptable, based on society's mores. Ginny, I tend to agree that too often, various reasons are offered to explain awful acts rather than the simple one that the perpetrator was utterly mad. Lorrie

Lorrie:

It depends upon the susceptibility and suggestibility of the person. Too complicated to give a simple answer.

Robby

Also in this book you'll notice that Dr. Lecter seems to have the aid of a lot of drugs, which he seems to steal with not too much trouble, tho how he'll know which drugs he may need for what purpose is sort of unclear: for instance, antidote for Starling? How, one wonders, did he know he'd need that?

I also note the author took pains to explain how and where Lecter got all his disposable cash, am not sure why the authorities couldn't catch on to that, they seem to be able to find him (the bad guys certainly did) easily enough. Withdrawls, the purchase of expensive automobiles, these ought to be able to be traced??

None of the characters in the book seem to me to be in good mental health. Of course, perhaps my own perspective is skewed, but feeding people to pigs or eating people as a delicacy isn't my opinion of good mental health. How FAR can we bend the parabola of normality to be PC???

Does it appear to anybody else that a sequel may be in the offing?

On the Florence stuff, I'm actually, having just been, not totally enamored of his writing there, did the author live there while preparing the book? Lecter seems to be able to slip in and out of various roles pretty easily, tho I believe several people in real life do the same.

Still looking for Green Grows the Holly midi.

As far as Harris himself being mad, I have a feeling that's not the case at all. I still get a sort of dry feeling about the thing, as if he's having us on. Stephen King said he wrote to exorcise his own fears, his own demons, his own imagination, it was better than a psychiatrist's couch.

In Harris' book I see a man totally fearful of the world around him, imagining what, to him, would be the worst thing anybody could do and then embodying it in Lecter or those who were against Lecter, and in creating Lecter, created a person who not only was not afraid any time, but who dealt with the horror in a civilized manner. I think Harris is as sane as anybody else, and is having a bit of a put on, myself.

Ginny

Good Point, Ginny. However, all those years as a crime reporter must have hardened Harris to a certain extent. Being exposed constantly to the underside of peoples' characters is bound to change our perceptions to a certain degree.

As to a possible sequel to this book, I have doubts. I suppose it could be done, but if it is I sure hope it has a better ending. Enough of that for now. Lorrie

Since Dr. Lecter was so interested in the music of Henry VIII, I thought you might be, too, if you aren't already. Here is his most famous tune, Pastime With Good Company , and a nice site where you can hear more (tho, alas, not yet the two Harris mentions): Tudor Music

I think you're right, Lorrie, I didn't know about Harris' background, I'm sure that affected him greatly. On the sequel, I sure can see it, but want to wait till everybody finishes.

Ginny

Ginny, thnk you for the link to the selection Tudor music, etc. To be perfectly honest with you, until I read this book I never even knew that Henry VIII wrote music. I always thought he was better known as the king whose wives all lost their heads, or most of them anyway. That's very interesting to know. I can see a comparison there somewhere. A madman who can murder on a whim, and yet plays Goldberg's Variations on a harpischord, and a monarch who beheads his wives yet composes lilting Enlish dance music.

They said that Hitler loved music and animals.

Robby

I'm thinking, and I may be totally completely wrong, but Henry VIII composed most of his more famous tunes BEFORE he started out on his reign of Wife Exchange. In fact, well, let me go look the dates up!

I've got the most marvelous CD of all his songs, will look and report back if dates are given, I believe it was in his youth that he composed so nicely.

Ginny

Ginny, it's so nice of you to share with us your knowledge about the kind of music that our infamous Dr. Lecter preferred. It's undoubtedly quite lyrical, but unfortunately I'm unable to hear it. I did want to mention, though, that I think Hannibal had wonderful taste in almost everything, except perhaps his choice of cuisine. (I'm going to have to quit making these awful puns) By the way, do you have a mental picture of Hannibal Lecter? The description given in the book wasn't that great except for the fact that he had "two great blackeyes." Even after had had plastic surgery, there wasn't much of a description. Every time I think of Lecter I think of Hopkins, because he portrayed him so well in the Lambs movie, I guess.

RED eyes! Harris is always referring to the red in his eye! Your mention made me think of that! What is that supposed to mean? Evil personified?

I can't say I do have a mental picture of him, but if I do he's frail and smallish. Not Anthony Hopkins type. Small, dapper, thin, aesthetic. Sort of a......Henry Kravitz type, but I can't think of an actor who fits the bill for the stage.

Interesting question, I can't think of an actor offhand who fits the picture I have of him: he'd need no disguise with me!

On the music, is your sound turned off? If it's on, does a window come up when you hit the clickable? If it does you can adjust the sound, look for either the symbol of a speaker or a sliding arrow on the right and move it to the right. Either Windows (sliding arrow) should come up or crescendo (speakers symbol) should display, something that allows you to adjust the speakers if your own speakers are turned on? Do you hear other sounds at all?

Ginny

Ginny, I had to smile when you gave me those instructions to get better performance from my speakers. Would that it were that simple. Some time ago I posted a brief note in the Chicago Gathering folder about going deaf. I had planned to cancel out of the Chicago trip because of this, but I got such heartwarming response I've decided to hang in there. It's no big deal, I've finally accepted the fact, but all I can say is THANK GOD FOR COMPUTERS! If I can just keep on fooling around with my new computer like I've been doing I'll be happy. It's wonderful to be ale to read---even books about mad psychiatrists who have a penchant for human brains. haha Lorrie

Lorrie: When no one's around... I can turn my volume way up.. or use the headphones when Charlie doesn't want so much noise.

Oh of course you did, Lorrie, so stupid of me, I myself have a terminal case of Hoof N Mouth disease!

I'm like Pat W, I just turn it up so high (when I'm by myself, of course)--sorry for the faux pas.

Don't you DARE not come to Chicago, you'll not regret it!!

What DO you think of the red eye effect?

Ginny

Pat, you've given me an idea. I live in a Senior Complex where everybody has his or her own apartment, and most of us go to bed fairly early. For that reason, I've been using cordless earphones when I want to watch the late, late movie. ( They're wonderful) I wonder if I couldn't use them on this computer. I'm going to ask a guru about this. Ginny, no problem. You have such an enthusiastic and generous outlook on life that no one could ever get angry with you. About Hannibal's red-eye. Do you remember what page? This will give me an excuse to retrieve my copy from my neighbor who is apparently a slow reader, unlike me. Lorrie

I finally finished this book last night as it needed to go back to the library today. It was really a refief to finish it as feel this book just didn't have "any redeeming values" and I doubt that I will ever read another book written by Harris. I can see why the reviews of the book were less than sterling. I haven't figured out what kind of message the author was trying to get across other than "evil personified". I am starting on the next Mitford book later tonight as need some uplifting reading after this book. My library had labeled this book as a part of their horror collection and feel it was properly labeled.

Not sure where we are in the discussion so won't discuss specifics toward the end of the book today.

Larry

FYI...NY Times Thurs Aug 26,...Fine arts Section.

Excellent article by Janet Maslin regarding the inter-play of books,movies,internet,etc and how some authors are writing books that they hope will become film projects.

Hannibal is mentioned fairly extensively plus some background info about T. Harris.

I remember in the early discussion about A Man In Full there were some comments about who would play the roles in the movies.

Is there a tinge of dishonesty if an author writes a novel with an inner eye as to how it will play as a film?

Larry, I have to admire the grim determination that drove you to finish this book. I know you didn't like it at all, but at least you did read it, which qualifies you to make an honest opinion. I know you won't be the only one who isn't too enthused about Hannibal, and we welcome their opinions, too. As we said before, it's interesting to hear any comment, be it for or against. Tell us which particular segments turned you off. Lorrie

Ed, thank you for your tip on the New York Times article. I'm going to try to get that piece, particularly if it has anything more about Harris in it. There's so very little about his personal life, I gather that he's pretty publicity shy. As to your comment, I am of the opinion that yes, authors do write with an eye to possible sales. Whether it affects the way they write or not, it's hard to say. I am a would-be writer, myself, and I can say in all honesty that there are times when I curb some dialogue, or temper some scene, for fear that I might be offending some future editor somewhere. Especially in the short-story genre, where I am. I'm sure that the great writers threw themselves into their stories without regard as to what others might think, yet I can't help feeling that some of them must have, at one time or another, cast a thought that maybe what they wrote might bring in a few dollars. Any thoughts on this, anyone? Lorrie

Well, some of the greatest writers of all time wrote for money, Agatha Christie for one, so I don't think it can be held against anybody but I do sense in Harris a sort of tongue in cheek (pardon the pun) attitude, it's just my own opinion, thanks for that notice, Ed, will go read the article, love the NY Times, back when I've finished it and noted all the "red eye" references, hope I marked them!

Ginny

Lorrie, the initial turnoff for me was the mistreatment of the children by Mason for the purpose of obtaining their tears to drink and the anguish he caused them. Totally depraved and what did it add to the story other than to further emphasize what an evil man he was. While the hate for Lecter would be understandable, just didn't feel this other aspect was anything but sensationalism. It just seemed that the book went downhill from there.

Regarding the casting of the movie they surely have to use the same main cast from "The Silence of the Lambs". For some reason I don't remember Mason and Margo from the other books, although suppose that brutality was described earlier. I suppose with computer editing they can create the hideous face that was described. (That reminds me of something I wondered about in the book and that is why Mason never had his hair cut?)

I expect that any author who has sold his book for a movie and seen it produced must think in those terms in subsequent writing. I know that I have often had the thought that John Grisham was writing for the screen in his books since he hit it big.

Larry

Larry, you're right. I really can't see any purpose in the segment about Mason's treatment of the children, unless it's only to emphasize what a despicable character he is. Perhaps he let his hair grow long as a symbolic gesture (Samson, whose strength lay in his tresses) as to his utter helplessness without the machines. Or is there a correlation between his long coil of hair and that repulsive eel that he keeps nearby? And I can't remember any mention of Mason or his sister in any of Harris' previous books, but I could have missed it. Lorrie

Ed was kind enough to send me part of the Janet Maslin article in the N.Y. Times, and I'll try to post some of it here. She certainly wrote a scathing article on Harris' motivation.

Here goes:

Title: Creative Cannibalism nibbles at the Audience's Trust... by Janet Maslin

When an author submits his most famous character to plastic surgery,the reasons aren't likely to be literary. So the most egregious thing to Thomas Harris's "Hannibal"--and this is a book with a major hanging-disembowling sequence, not to mention one in which a character is made to swallow a killer eel until "blood blew out"of his "nose hole and he was drowning"--is the face lift of Hannibal Lecter.

When Hannibal makes his entrance,disguised as an art expert in Italy,he is said to look dimly like himself but also different,thanks to the surgeon's knife. In her dreams Clarice Starling envisions "Dr Lecter's old face,"which he demolished at the end of the last installment,as opposed to his new one. Translation: Maybe Anthony Hopkins will want to do the movie,but let's keep our options open if he says no.

This is a tipoff to the hidden attitude at work in Mr Harris's amazingly nasty beach book and in so many other pop cultural successes of the moment. It either can't or won't stand alone. And it counts in other media,spinoffs or tie-ins to help make its connection with popular tastes.

The accumulated impact of this much stealth marketing,and of the cultural cross-pollination that synergy entails,is to foster an atmosphere of deep mistrust. All to rare is the pleasure of reading,hearing or watching something that doesn't seem to have an agenda.

Hannibal's nip and tucks are a tipoff to the kind of thinking that makes Mr Harris's latest Lecter thriller the kind of novel that generates its own waves of queasiness,so different from the others.

Mr Harris began thinking cinematically,to the point of devising loony but visually striking scenes (like the quasi-fantasy sequence that ends the book,setting it up for another sequel) and offering descriptions that sound like stage directions. ("Click of a switch and a low lamp comes on. Now we can see Dr Lecter seated at a 16th century refectory table in the Capponi Library.") Once a cinematic novelist,now writes like a director without a camera.

Lorrie, that's quite a review! I wonder if the disenchantment some people feel with the sequel has more to do with losing the tie in that people seemed to have with the first book (movie) and the acting of Anthony Hopkins?

For instance, I didn't read the first book and so have no idea how Lecter was portrayed there, was he, in fact, portrayed sympathetically?

The author of the review points out the extreme amount of blood and guts in this thing, and I agree. Was the first book like this?

I tend to skip over unpleasant things. I read them but I mentally don't dwell. So when I hit the children, I did stop, reread and pass over, thinking that was nasty. And of course it continued nastily till the end. Too much. A little is a whole lot more subtle.

And as far as the guy singing as they ate his brain, all I can say is that those must be some kind of powerful drugs!

Ginny

Now you have an idea as to why I chose not to read this book in the first place. If I want to experience horror, all I have to do is visit some prisons.

Robby

I didn't want to say anything before, because of maybe scaring people off, but it's beginning to look like there aren't that many to scare. I actually loved Silence of the Lambs, both the book and the movie. I thought the plot was neatly tied together, I liked the way Clarissa was brought into the story and developed, and I even liked the ending, with the predictable sense that we'd be hearing from Hannibal Lecter again. And I didn't feel that Harris treated him sympathetically, he was just as macabre as ever. When I bought Hannibal, after much anticipation, I expected more of the same, but I have to tell you now that I was bitterly disappointed. More about that later.

More reasons why I didn't like Hannibal. It started out fine, and the beginning was a real shocker, with Clarice and the baby episode. I even liked the Italian segment, Harris set the scene nicely--one had a real feeling for the ambience of Florence, and the chase along those crowded streets was exciting. It was only when the story shifted more to Mason Verger and his repugnant associates that I began to be turned off. In his former books, at least Harris used a little restraint with the gore, but in this book, he went all out. The ending was almost laughable, it was so far-fetched. All along I began to get the feeling that Harris was writing this whole thing simply to meet an obligation to his publishers, and perhaps with a tongue in cheek. I still think he's an excellent writer--the words seem to flow with style, but I just didn't like this particular book.

Lorrie, isn't that funny, now I had similar thoughts but no basis for comparison as this is the first book Harris wrote that I've read.

There IS a separation, I think, on the part of the reader, a drawing back. Maybe I'm not into disembowelment, I agree that he went overboard with the details. It was almost as if he said, well, let's see, what's the WORST thing I can think of, and then put it in.

I didn't see SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, nor did I read the book, but I get a sense from your posts that they were not as graphic? There are no end of disgusting passages in this thing, and you almost had to start skimming, going , "yadda yadda, " till he got through.

He did describe Florence well and I thought he dwelt lovingly on Dr. Lecter himself, his cultured educated interests, his love of music (can't find the text but strongly suspect If Love Now Reigned as a Harris joke). Green Grows the Holly is a real song.

Have one more source to consult, sorry it's taking so long.

Since we're at the end, want to know what you all thought of the ending of the book? Did you believe that Starling would join him in his ....well.....lifestyle? Was that believable for you?

Ginny

Ginny, you said it exactly. Harris treated Dr. Lecter in a much more sympathetic manner in this book than in Silence of the Lambs. In that one, he was more restrained about the graphic details, but very cold-blooded in his description of the doctor. He made him a much more sinister character, I think, and that was part of what appealed to me in that book. And yes, I simply can't see Clarice becoming his companion and lover---even if she was brainwashed, (is that what she was, at the end?) I feel that this would go against her innate sense of right and wrong. I think the ending was ludicrous. If there's a sequel to this one, I certainly won't buy it.

Lorrie and Ginny, good comments in summation. It also bothered me that Lecter couldn't be around anyone in the previous books without biting them or killing them and yet he could escape and live for several years in society and gain a position of prominence by eliminating his competition.

Larry