North to the Rails ~ Louis L'Amour ~ 6/01 ~ Fictio Export

North to the Rails

The man who would become Louis L'Amour grew up in the fading days of the American frontier. He was born Louis Dearborn LaMoore on March 22, 1908, the last of seven children in the family of Dr. Louis Charles LaMoore and Emily Dearborn LaMoore. His home, for the first fifteen years of his life, was Jamestown, North Dakota, a medium sized farming community situated in the valley where Pipestem Creek flows into the James River. Doctor LaMoore was a large animal veterinarian who came to Dakota Territory in 1882. As times changed he also sold farm machinery, bossed harvesting crews, and held several positions in city and state government.

When Louis was very young his grandfather, Abraham Truman Dearborn, came to live in a little house just in back of the LaMoore's. He told Louis of the great battles in history and of his own experiences as a soldier in both the Civil and Indian wars. Two of Louis' uncles had worked on ranches for many years, one as a manager and the other as an itinerate cowboy. It was in the company of men such as these that Louis was first exposed to the history and adventure of the American Frontier.

From the Official Louis L'Amour Website

From the Publisher

Tom Chantry wore no gun and wished no man harm. French Williams was a ruthless cattleman more than willing to use his weapon. But Tom needed Williams to help him drive a herd north to Dodge. Setting off together on a trail alive with danger, soft-spoken Chantry and hard-bitten Williams faced storms, treachery, and Indian attacks. Now the man some call a coward and the man many call a killer have no choice but to trust each other with their lives—for both have enemies and both are pursued by a violence from the past.

Discussion Schedule
June 1 thru June 8 Chapters 1 thru 12	June 9 thru June 18 Chapters 13 thru 23

Have a book you'd like to nominate for a future discussion?

Click on the Suggestion Box and post your suggestion.

Your Discussion Leader is: Bill H.

Welcome, all you Louis L’Amour fans. Lets get ready to go on an exciting and action packed cattle drive. On which, we will meet up with thieves, gunfighters and Indians. How does that sound?

I found the biography of L’Amour to be almost as action filled as the novel “North to the Rails.” Louis must’ve been a real roustabout. He led quite an adventurous life. No hum-drum living for him; he lived his life much the way he wanted.

Don’t forget to use the link that our Nellie put in the heading to see all of the L’Amour goodies. By the way, this would be a good time to thank Nellie for the excellent work she did creating this fine heading and having patience with me. Aren’t we lucky to have such fine technicians. Thank you Nellie and I do hope you join us on our journey!

So come on, all. Let’s saddle up, round ‘em up, keep those lassos twirling, and move them out North to the Rails.

Bill H

Bill, have a fine ride, padner! With your enthusiasm, this looks like it will be a winner! One question? Who's in charge of the canteen?

See you all down the trail!

Joan

Thak you, Joan.

Mat Dillon and Doc were still in the canteen, when I left.)

Bill H

Bill, I'm ready to join you on the trail.

Good luck on your adventure, Bill. When you get to the rails I might join you, I just never learned to ride a horse. Have fun.

Welcome!!

Nellie and Ella!!

So glad you are going to join in.

Bill H

Our scene is set in the first paragraph isn't it Bill? He had never used a gun against a man, and did not intend to begin now. Our hero, Tom Chantry, stumbles into his first dilemma in the Wild West as he must match his wits against the rough and tough Dutch Atkin.

Welcome, Alf. Yes, Louis can set a scene very well. I could visualize some of the trails Tom rode the way L’Amour described them.

However, there is something I’m curious about, on page three of the book, Tom talks about getting steers from Las Vegas, New Mexico. Well, I’ve only been to one Las Vegas and we all know where that is!

Bill H

Hey, Cowpokes, wait for me! I know I'm a tenderfoot----caught my foot in my stirrup when we started out, and got tossed, but am reseated in the saddle now and ready to go! Howdy, Everybody!

Wow! Only the first few pages, and already our Tom is an a fracas. Enter the aptly-named "Sparrow" who seems to have some sway over Dutch Akins, right? This is starting out with a bang!

Bill,I can't imagine any other town named Las Vegas other than That One in Nevada, can you?

Lorrie

Hi, Bill. I'll be joining in on this ride. I read North to the Rails years ago, and will enjoy reading it again. As for Las Vegas, New Mexico, you know if Louis says there was one, you can count on it. His geographical & historical accuracy contribute so much to the interest of his books.

How did you come to choose this particular book? I find of particular interest the theme of the importance of personal courage in dealings between men in the Old West. You had to know who you could rely on. And my Daddy taught me about bullies long before I read Louis L'Amour. In his book, a bully was, by definition, a coward. You stood up to them. I am female, by the way, but in case you didn't know, there are female bullies, too. Even more today, from what I hear about today's schools. ...Babi

A tenderfoot amongst us heh? Hold on Lorrie, we are in for a ride.

There is a Las Vegas, New Mexico. I have a tee shirt from there. When we traveled from Phoenix to Cheyanne, we stopped in Las Vegas, New Mexico. It was a small little town off of the interstate. We shopped a bit and had lunch there.

Mr. Sparrow tells Tom that he noticed that the more organized our lives become the less attention we pay to such things as loyalty and courage. do you agree with that?

Welcome, Lorrie. glad you joined in. Hang tight, Lorrie, this book travels fast. Believe me. Tom gets into more jams in the first few days, than any one person deserves. He reminds me of Dick Tracy.

Welcome, Babi. we are always glad to have a new comer join us in all our discussions!

Babi, several of our readers said they liked this book, so I just went along with them.

Your dad was right. Most times bullies will fold when you stand up to them. Oh, yes, there are female bullies today. I see them driving cars every day. Such aggressive driving!

Hi, Alf.In answer to your question, I don't know about courage,but I've noticed that today there is for less loyality.

Thanks for answering the question about Las Vegas, New Mexico. I wonder if Louis put that in for us to look up? But you saved all of us the trouble.

Bill H

Hi, there, Babi, Welcome! You, too, Alf!

Bill, I'm only onto Chapter Two, but I'm confused about something. Why is Chantal so adamant about not wearing a gun? Is it becuse his father was killed in a shoot-out? It seems to me he would be a lot better off with a shootin' iron. When I left him there, he had just been horse-jacked, and I noticed the baddies took his horse after they realized he didn't have a gun. I know there must be a reason, but I don't know what it is.

Lorrie

I don't think easterners wore guns as a rule. at least not in belts hung on their hips. They might have hidden a little two shot thing somewhere on their person, but they were used to solving problems with discussion because laws and courts were established there. In the west anyone who wanted to be a judge only had to say so. I think the govenors had power but law enforcement was almost non existent. It took our easterner w while to learn that he had to protect himself with the going technology. Most easterners didn't know how to shoot well either, or draw fast. It was just strange to them to have to do it. easy to say no but hard to get along that way i in the wild west.

Claire

Welcome, Claire. glad you joined in. You answered Lorrie's question so well! By the way I'm enjoying Bear and Dragon, thanks.

Even in those days men changed and their personality took on the style of the time. Tom Chantry was dead set on carrying a gun. After meeting up with the Talrim boys, he still refused to wear one. Only after being dry gulched and having horse and boots stole and nearly perishing did he decide to carry a gun. He changed his mind about shooting also. I think this aptly describes how a person can only be driven so far before a change in their character takes place. Do any of you agree with this?

Bill H

Hi. Some interesting posts. On Alf's question about the effects of an "organized" life----I see Mr. Sparrow as talking about social establishments of law enforcement..police, courts, etc., that arise when an area is more settled and "civilized". We come to depend on others for protection, and personal courage is not as frequently demanded. Loyalty, I guess, means extending your courage to protect others besides yourself. We don't know what is in us until we are put to the test. I do believe that people with an easy way of life do become soft, physically, mentally, and every other way, which can make them an easy prey.

On Bill's question about changes in character if driven too far? I'm not sure character would change, but attitudes and formerly held opinions certainly can. Who was that character who used to say, "I'm a peaceable man", but was 'hell on wheels' when he got really riled? I don't think difficulties and pressure change character so much as reveal character. Babi

Tom Chantry's father lived for two days in considerable pain, after being shot, before finally dying. Witnessing that as a young boy must certainly have influenced Tom in the choice he makes about not carrying a gun and not facing Dutch Akins in a gunfight. He sees no point in hurting or killing someone just to satisfy his pride. But would he not also be a bit afraid of dying in pain as his father had?

It is interesting that Tom Chantry rides west instead of east, the direction of home, when he rides away from the gunfight with Dutch. The west was once home to Chantry and perhaps it is still home?

I've never read a western adventure story before and this one turned out to be quite good.

Very well said Babi.

Hi,Nellie.I'm so glad you enjoyed your first western. It seemed fate decreed Tom turning west, and later in the book how he "accidentally" discovers his boy hood home. I believe the west wanted Tom. Can such be?

Bill H

Bill: What a great thought! The west wanted Tom. We must consider what a contrast someone such as Tom would be in a "savage, gun-slinging, untamed wilderness." He was a man of character, strength, courage and integrity. Facets such as these were needed for harmony and synthesis.

Good morning. I was very interested to find Mr. L'Amour well aware of the amount of information received and stored by young minds. It is fascinating to read of Tom Chantry's gradual rediscovery of so much passed on to him by his father. I believe too few fathers realize how much of themselves and what they have learned can be passed on to their children, if they will only spend the time with them. Tom's mother played a large role in his feelings re. guns, but I believe his father's early lessons were more deeply rooted. It was the lessons about what a man should be that caused Tom to turn West, I believe, whether he realized it or not. ....Babi

It is also interesting to see important comments on the issue of guns, written thirty years ago. We tend to forget how long this argument has been going on. ...Babi

BaBi: You've got that right. I wonder if this discussion will urge the NRA proponents to visit us.

I hope not, Alf. We are no more likely to resolve the issue here than anywhere else, and it does get acrimonious. ..Babi

Didn't you just love it when French Williams cuts his deal with Tom to take the cattle to the railhead for expenses----- only if Tom accompanied them all of the way through ? The pressure mounts as our hero shows his colors of valor. 2200 head of cattle has got to be quite an enterprise.

What I got a kick from was Tom leading the 2200 herd by himself, when everybody else split the scene, just picture that in your mind’s eye, of course this is much later in the book. I hope I didn’t give anything away.

Yes, Tom was quite a man of courage. Just imagine riding all those solitaire trails without a gun, never knowing what danger the next bend or bush in the trail held. And riding into a savage Indian camp a lone, WOW.

Bill H

Bill, I think the West needed a man like Tom.

I thought that deal Tom made with French Williams added lots of excitement to the story because I kept wondering in what subtle way French was going to make sure that Tom would not be with the herd at the end of the drive.

What about French's trick of hiring Dutch Akins? Surprisingly the meeting between him and Tom went very civil. But knowing the type of man Tom is, I should not be surprised. However Akins was an unknown factor and could have reacted differently than he did.

Yes, Nellie, that deal did indeed add suspense to the plot. In a way I think that was the core of the novel. I felt certain when Tom and Dutch Akins met again Dutch would instigate a gun fight. Little did I think they would become almost friendly.

After reading L’Amour’s biography I feel L’Amour put a little of himself in Tom Chantry. Louis led an adventurous life himself, never fearing to try what he wanted to do, as long he felt it would benefit him. He didn’t mind being broke so long as he could write the stories of the west that he so loved. See how this shows in Tom.

Did any of you find L’Amour’s biography interesting?

L'amour brings out the little girl in me again. My dad used to love reading Louis L'Amours newest novels. Many mornings we would sit at the table, as he read aloud and fantasize what WE would have done had we been in the hero's predicaments.

Alf, you will cherish those memories for ever! This discussion, if just for giving you vivid memories of your younger days with your dad, was worth it.

From the biography of Louis L’Amour.

In the years after leaving Jamestown Louis had a sporadic career as a professional boxer. Having been well taught by his father and older brothers, Louis made extra money from an occasional prizefight and, in the year just after his family left Jamestown, he often fought in the ring for the money to buy gas so that they could move on. On more than one occasion a run of luck allowed him to box full time. Over the years he spent time in dim gymnasiums in cities all across the west, first as a boxer, then as second and finally as a trainer, seeing the world of fighters, managers, gangsters and gamblers first hand. Louis ended his fighting career by coaching several successful Golden Gloves teams; the first few in Oklahoma, the last, an army team that went to the Tournament of Champions in Chicago. Louis freely drew from this experience for many of the boxing stories in the collections

After reading this paragraph, I can ealily understand why Tom Chantry was such an execellent boxer and why he would rather fight someone than shoot it out. Thanks Nellie, for giving us all those great links to L’Amour’s biography.

By clicking on “the official Louis L’amour website” found in the heading, you can browse your way to The Sacket books Louis wrote and the best order in which to read them.

Bill H

One day I was speeding along at the typewriter, and my daughter - who was a child at the time - asked me, "Daddy, why are you writing so fast?" And I replied, "Because I want to see how the story turns out!" . . . Louis L'Amour

Alf, funny you should mention about "bringing out the little girl in me." One of my fondest memories, as a child, was of sending away (for a hard-earned quarter) for an autographed picture of Roy Fogers. I adored him, and for years after was intrigued by tales and movies about cowboys and the Old West, the whole schmeer.

Bill, you asked about Lamour's biography. What a colorful life he led! Mostly self-educated, apparently, he was an avid reader, and his library was said to be legendary.

It's interesting to note that, although he was raised in a farming area, Louis and his brothers often met real cowboys as they came through on the railway, traveling to markets with stockcars full of cattle. (Hence our title, perhaps?)

Also, Louis' father, Dr. L.C. LaMoore, was a state livestock inspector, which required him to certify the health of all the cattle that passed through that area. I'm sure this must have had an influence on his son's later stories.

Lorrie

You wrote: Yes, Tom was quite a man of courage. Just imagine riding all those solitaire trails without a gun, never knowing what danger the next bend or bush in the trail held. And riding into a savage Indian camp a lone, WOW

Most real cowboys of the old west carried guns, but not to shoot at each other. Riding alone in the wilderness could bring you in contact with a rattlesnake, a bear, and many other dangers. Occasionally a horse would step in a hole and break a leg. These were the uses the early cowboys had for guns. Only a few used them to shoot people.

I will admit that a rifle carried on a boot in the saddle would suffice as well for most of these uses, but many considered the hand gun easier to carry and more readily available. The problems arose (as in Saigon in the 70's) with having children walking around armed. A drink or two and judgement went out of the window. Guns are dangerous. They should be treated with respect.

camw

OOps! I meant Roy Rogers.

I believe Louis L'Amour put something of himself into every book he wrote. I haven't read his biography, but I understand he traveled throughout the areas he wrote about, and his details about the countryside were always accurate.

I think one of the things I like best about reading Westerns is the feeling of openness and clarity. It's stepping back into a time when the air was fresh, the water was clean, and people were expected to be responsible for their own actions, good or bad. If you had a rotten childhood, that was a sad and regrettable thing, but it didn't excuse preying on others once you reached the age of responsibility. People make their choices. ...Babi

Hey, you guys are making some great posts Very interesting reading.

I guess my favorite cowboy was Hopalong Cassidy. I'm sure that was an L'Amour character. On Saturday afternoon, when they had a Hoppy Matinee--or others as well you'd find me at the movies watching with great interest. Those matinee series always ended with the hero in a jam. We, of course, would wait patiently for the next Saturday to roll around to find out if our hero got out of the scrape.

Just think of all the suspenseful weely matinees they could’ve had with “North to the Rails.” I can see one week ending with the Talrim boys taking a shot at Tom, after telling him to dismount from his horse. The next week could open showing Tom just getting nicked in the ear.

Bill H

Hahah , good one Bill. What a climactic ending with all of us wondering if poor Tom has been "kilt."

I realize “North to the Rails” and L’Amour’s bio is the main theme of the discussion, but what other Louis L’Amour novels are your favorites?

Bill H

I realize “North to the Rails” and L’Amour’s bio is the main theme of the discussion, but what other Louis L’Amour novels are your favorites?

If you would like to view the postage stamp (33 cents) that was proposed by L'Amour fans, click Stamp I'm not sure if this postage stamp was ever offered by the Postal Service. Does anybody know?

Bill H

answer a need for HEROS. There aren't any except in books nowadays. And the action is always forthcoming. Never a dull moment and the Locations are REAL. which attracts me. The women are sometimes on a par with the men. Was Louis a feminist --even then giving us a chance to be active, and the romance was indicated but not the subject of everyones live. I tried Zane Grey and his books didn't even come close to satisfying me. The only other western (sometimes western) writer I like is Larry McMurtry (LOnesome Dove) and he writes in other genres also.

For a longer read there is one on the Comstock Lode. I have a box full of LL's books and I could go through and throw in some more titles but so does your local library I'm sure.

Claire

North to the Rails is the first L'Amour book I have read. It was good enough that I will read some more of his books.

This story would have made a good Saturday morning serial.

When Tom is shot -his head is hit, but I couldn't make out if it was just a crease or something more serious- I found all his later activities on the unbelievable side and thought he was impossibly tough. But a piece on the news about a young man who survived 8 days inside a smashed up car in B.C. Canada shows that human beings can be tough; and that made that part of the story more believable to me than it was at first.

That Sarah is one mean and nasty woman!

Re:North to the Rails What is wrong with this book? Can't get started. As I rule I enjoy his books and finish them in a few hours. Maybe the hero spent the first half of the book explaining why he didn't carry a gun. Enough of the preaching and get on with the action. Sorry bill, this one is a loser. Also if any reader in California could tell me what time I could get online to this site...tried morning, noon and night with no luck. I'm using the library computer today. Help

My all-time favorite L'Amour books are the Sackett novels, esp. the first. My memory doesn't always serve me accurately, but I think it was called "The Dawnbreakers". Books like these, and the Westerns of my childhood Saturdays (we must be of the same generation, Bill), had a lot to do with forming my early impressions about right and wrong, and personal courage. I think Tom Chantry's toughness only seems incredible because we don't often see it in our humdrum lives. But think of people like Audie Murphy. One reason his tough-guy movies were so believable was because you KNEW he could do it; he already had.

If the postoffice ever printed a L'Amour stamp, I haven't seen it. I wish they would. It would be a much better idea than some they have come up with. ...Babi

Hi I"m in southern California and I can get on here twenty four hours a day becuase it's really only a bulletin board, not a chat. Is that what's confusing you? No one will ever answer you directly unless they happen to be on and in this discussion when you are. Try ICQ or INSTANT MESANGER for that kind of contact, or a chat room devoted to whatever subject. BIG BOB has several. I like the 60's plus one myself. When I go there I'm "collygirl". But that's mostly happy talk. For substance here is best and then maybe Salon.

Claire

Kiyo, Welcome! I'm glad you made it to the discussion. What L'Amour novels do you like?

Bill H

On page 48, I think, when Tom is talking to Bone McCarthy (love that name!) McCarthy says,

"The Indian was whipped the first time a white trader came amongst them to trade with things the Injun couldn't make with his bare hands."

There's a lot of profundity in that statement.

Lorrie

Nellie, I agree. Louis did push the envelope of credibility a little far where our hero is concerned. For example, the part Tom is ambushed, creased in the head by a bullet, robbed of horse, guns, boots, supplies and left for dead. He regains conscience in the cold rainy, dark night and walks without shoes over rocky and hilly terrain in pouring rain, who knows how many miles, in a veak condition and magically regains his strength in short order. Now that did boggle my imagination However, after you pointed out the man who survied for eight days after a car crash, maybe Louis’s tale is not too far fetched.

Babi, I suppose the people who journed west had to be tough to survive the many hardships along the way, however, many did not. Tom Chantry brings this tounghness to mind again

Lorrie, I forgot about Bones McCaarthy. I liked the name Mr.Sparrow. Made me think of a bird.

Claire, I never participated in a chat room Are they much fun!

Bill H

are they much fun? Well, it depends. Sixties plus claimed to be one of the friendliest ones on line and it's true that everyone greets you as you come in especially if you're new. It's nice to be greeted because it's a form of acknowledgement. They also say good bye when you leave. Eventually you even get to know some of them. At sixties plus there have been actual courtships and weddings. . . a yearly bash (ge together) at Las Vegas, which I've never attended and luncheons where ever and whenever convenient. I went to one in Huntington Beach. There were twelve of us who had never met except ton line, but there were hugs and laughter and we had a good time. It depends on how outgoing you are and which chat. Some are not friendly and some are distasteful when it comes to contents. I still exchange e-mails with a young (forty) man whom I met in a WBS music chat. So on the whole it's a positive thing, but mostly hellos and goodbyes for a newcomer or newbee as they are called.

Big Bob has taken over the WBS crew since they went out of business. They are all free but hoping for donations because advertising is slow now. do a search and see.

There is one here at seniornet too, and Salon Magazine has them.

Claire

Ready-made goods, whiskey, and disease...that's what we brought to the Indians. I've learned a lot about the West from reading L'Amour's books, and he definitely used them to teach, even to lecture. I did find that in the last few books he wrote, the "lecture" almost entirely replaced the story, and the books ceased to be enjoyable. But we still have a large volume of really excellent Westerns from him, and I appreciate what he gave us. ...Babi

BaBi, and Kiyo: I can't help but agree, in some respects, with what you say about Louis Lamour's character, Tom. There is way too much emphasis on his not carrying a gun, in my opinion, and sometimes I sort of secretly wish Tom wasn't quite so upright and unblemished. It would make him a little more human if he had a fault or two. That's just my thinking, folks! I am enjoying this adventure of his.

Lorrie

The books ending gave me pause for thought. Five days after Sarah took off with the gold bags, Bones Mcarthy (there’s that naame again, Lorrie) and Mobile Callahan came upon the pack horse that carriied the gold bags. Mobile made the remark “Come on. Packin all this gold we’ll be lucky to make it back ourselves.” Now I find it hard to believe that two cowboys finding all that gold didn’t say. “Come on let’s take off with it.” Nobody knew they had found it. I wonder what they did.

Bill H

Hi, I'm a little late but this sounds like my kind of book. I'm a Tony Hillerman fan so I'll leave the Indians for awhile and try this one. Alf....... Does that T Shirt go with your white shorts????? I'll lurk for awhile but I shall return.

If Bones and Mobile were the type to take the money and run, they would likely not have done so well the jobs they were hired to do. They had money up front, and no one was supervising them. They could have strolled on down the road, taken life easy, and turned up with a "did the best I could" later. It goes back to the basic theme of the book...you had to be trustworthy to keep the respect of decent people in the Old West. Some, I know, lived right on the borderline of lawful and outlaw, but they were not trusted. It never once occurred to me that Bones and Mobile would do anything other than take the gold back to the Earnshaws. ..Babi

I have almost 80 books by L'Amour and wouldn't you know "North to the Rails" isn't one of them. Most of mine are paperback but they read the same. I shall try to find this one.

Welcome!!

CMac and Mommie D.

Glad you stopped in.

Bill H

The story line is a little less than believable. Anyone who grew up in his father's house and then whether he continued his education 'back east' or wherever (except maybe in a posh girl's school, and I doubt even there) would know what the challenge meant. That is so far the least believable part of the story. I hopre it gets better...

camw

But Babi, do you think Bones and Mobile were sorely tempted?)

CamW, wait till you reach the part of Tom leading the herd by himself. But, heck it is entertaining and wouldn't it make a good Saturday cowboy movie matinee?

Bill H

Mommie D. I think paperbacks are the best. You can carry them wherever you go.

CMac, I hope you get a copy, but, even if you don't, join in anyway.

Bill H

Tom Chantry seems too perfect until he has that fist fight with Koch and hits him an extra time even when Koch has already started to go down. Then after Tom has been shot from ambush and he knows that Sarah and Paul are out to kill him, he takes the gun from Sparrow fast enough.

I think the West slowly changes Tom from an Easterner who never needed to wear a gun to a Westerner who does need to wear one, if only for self-protection.

I don't know enough about the era to judge believability but I'm enjoying the fiction. Who believe what we read in other genres i.e. romance, historical novels, sci fi, etc. . . Not me.

Claire

True, Nellie, fear will make one change one's mind in a hurry. Tom did grab the gun in a hurry! )

True, to you too, Claire, we read fiction for entertainment and not for facts. One author I know of that writes fact and fiction togeather is Tom Clancy. His books give me an eduction as well as entertaimment. especially about the military.

Bill H

right bill....he taught us how to build an H-bomb in one of his long novels.. The CIA and FBI are very nervouse about him and his technology explanations. He's just too close to the truth.

Claire

His first publisher was the U. S. Naval Academy Press. Everything he has written has been vetted and approved. Even so, when I read Hunt for the Red October, I wondered how he was able to publish as many facts as he did. I worked on the AN/BQR-21 digital sonar system and knew some classified facts about it. There were things in the novel that *I* would not have mentioned to anyone. However, I guess I am just cautious.

I have read and liked every Clancy novel through Bear and Dragon.

camw

I agree that one man driving a herd is pretty nigh impossible. The only thing that made it even briefly plausible is that the herd was trail broken and accustomed to following that old lead heifer. Once the herd (and it was smaller at this point) began to realize they weren't surrounded by drovers,they began drifting away. So it is not entirely unrealistic. I think it is pretty clear that our hero would not have made it alone; only the help of the Kiowas got the herd through.

On Bone and Mobile and the gold...I don't believe there is a soul alive that would not at least have dreamt for a minute about what they could do with all that money. Who knows, if only one of them had found the gold, the temptation might have been too much. Still, from what I could see of the character and values of these two men, I don't think the gold would have meant as much to them as their self-respect and the respect of those they respected, if you follow me. Babi

There are degrees of honor. While Frenchy had a certain kind of honor, he would probably have kept he gold as 'finders keepers ...' On the other hand many people (even today) would return the gold to the rightful owners.

I believe that if the police acted differently, more people would return found money. For the most part a finder is treated as a criminal. I would prefer to hang on the the money and have the police refer claimants to me. If there were a way to trace the owner I would do so and not involve anyone else.

camw

In fact I would have been surprised if the two had tried to keep the money. The two had ridden out looking for it and when they found it they returned. Possibly some would have thought about keeping some or all of it, but not many. They would never want any discredit on their reputations. After all, that is all most of these men had--their reputations, a horse and saddle, and the clothes on their back.

Camw (again)

About keeping the gold. That was "the code of the west".

Camw..You are exactly right. A man's reputation was more valuable than gold out there. If a man's word was good, he could be wiped out and still find backers prepared to stake him to a new start, just on his word.

On a different note, I can't help wondering how Doris Earnshaw, born and raised in the East, in a wealthy lifestyle, is going to like the Wild West. She seems a steady, level-headed young woman, so I would guess she will manage. It would make another good story, tho. ..Babi

Babi, you wrote: On a different note, I can't help wondering how Doris Earnshaw, born and raised in the East, in a wealthy lifestyle, is going to like the Wild West. She seems a steady, level-headed young woman, so I would guess she will manage. It would make another good story, tho.

I would think that most--if not all--the women who came west were steady, level-headed young women. However once they arrived, things may have changed, changing how they lived out their lives. If a woman lost her husband on the way, she migh be forced into dance hall life or something else. Not every town wanted a school marm, and there were not a lot of options open to women then, and especially in the west. I am sure there were some of women who came west and decided it was just not worth it and went back east (assuming they could).

camw

New widows would attract ready souters and protectors if they wanted to stay.

Claire

I believe Doris Earnshaw would have adjusted to the West. She would be a lot better off than most women migrating from the East. Doris was from a wealthy family and her prospective husband was destined to be a very good business man. The Chantrys, therefore, could afford the amenities that would suit Doris.

This did not apply to other women settling the West, but Clair's answer was very well put.

Bill H

Cam, I don't doubt a good many women went back home, if there was anything/anyone there to return to. But as winsum says, women were in short supply and high demand. I doubt if any woman would have had a serious problem in finding a husband if she wanted one. Many men were willing to take a wife sight unseen, if she would just come willing to work. The many mail-order brides are evidence of that. And after the Civil War, when so many young men from the East were killed, many of the young women had to choose between taking a husband in the West or remaining spinsters. ...Babi

It was well for, Tom, when he spared Wolf Walkers’s life after killing the other two Kiowa Indians. Wolf Walker befriended him and helped Tom drive the herd, after the others departed. This makes me realize why other early western settlers befriended Indians. They had to inorder to survive the rigors of the wild country. What fortitude these people had!

Bill H

Hi' I love this book. I'm just trying to catch up.

CMac, we will all be more than happy to wait for you.)

Bill H

I thought L’Amour’s telling of Sarah trying to cross Llano Estacado...the Staked Plain was well written. I could only imagine the horror going through Sarah’s mind as she invainly tried crossing this wide expanse of Plains searching for water, water far more precious than gold now. Dwell a bit on this passage of the book and let us know what went through your minds about Sarah’s plight.

Bill H

I was at first a bit surprised that Sarah had not found out more about what she would need to take with her. Yet I could easily understand how she could look at that rough map and think her goal was not far off. She left in a hurry, wanting to put miles between herself and any pursuers before they realized she was gone. As to the plight she found herself in..I could pity her thirst and fear, yet I also felt she had brought it on herself. No one else was responsible for her being there. If I had been a character in the book there when she started out, I would have warned her, even knowing what she had done. BUT, I suspect she would not have believed or heeded me. ...Babi

I was not surprised at what happened to Sarah. However, it is one reason why many people perish. They go into something without knowing what they are doing. People will go out skiing, hiking, or sailing without knowing the full dangers. (Remember the idiot with the two women in Perfect Storm? He set sail for Bermuda from Maine without a look at the weather. I wouldn't set sail from my marina to the gas dock without checking the weather.)

However, Louis is providing a lesson (bad guys don't win). He also provided a lesson on Gun Ownership. There were a few sermons about the gun not being all bad. I happen to agree, but I am not a fanatic. I would like to have something like a shotgun aboard if I were sailing into foreign waters, but the benefits don't outweigh the dangers.

camw

It always amazes me that no matter what type of book you're involved in, you always learn something. I loved the explanation as to why the cowboys sang to the wild steer in order to reassure the animals and so that the cattle would become familiar with their voices.

Babi and CamW, your thoughts of Sarah going without checking on her Plains’ journey echoed my thoughts as well. But, now that I think of it, didn’t she believe that some of her group would be going with her? She probably never thought that all of them would either be killed or taken prisoner in the gun fight. But we all know what they say about “...the best laid plans”.

Alf, Im so glad you mentioned the cowboys singing to the steers. I forgot all about that Do you think that’s how Gene Autry got his start? )

Bill H

Bill, it says that Sarah is content when she starts out on what will be her final journey. She has all the gold, a rifle, a pistol and a map that shows where the place she wants to go is, but not the distance to it. I don't think that she was expecting to have others with her because I don't think that she wanted to share the gold.

I wonder why she kept on believing the map even after it was proven that it was pretty well useless? After the pack horse escapes and takes off with the gold she is only interested in staying alive. Yet she keeps going south. Turning around and going back the way she had come would most likely have kept her alive. It would also have ended her up in prison or worse. Perhaps she realized that death in the desert was preferable to what was waiting for her if she returned whence she came?

The land and the nature of it, the West itself, exacted its own retribution in the case of Sarah.

One of the more exciting scenes in the book is the stampede with Tom riding in the middle of it.

Sarah finally realized the town she sought was farther away than she realized, but by then she was already well into the desert,...about three days, wasn't it? Which was shortest, the way ahead or the way back? She had no way of knowing. If she could have known for certain that it was best to go back, I'm sure she would have. But after going as far as she had, she must have believed she had a better chance going ahead. And Camw is certainly right about people heading ignorantly into danger all the time. Another small lesson pointed out by Mr. L'Amour. ...Babi

Sarah thought of nothing but that gold. It was going to take her wherever she wanted to go and buy everything. She worshipped money and it didn't matter how she got it. Just proves money is the root of all evil. The love of money so narrowed her thoughts that she became money's slave. She lost all values and gave no thoughts to the conscequences of "what if?" I think she figured on her buddies getting her to the border then she would have ditched them someway. She thought she was rid of Tom and French and saw her way clear except she never thought she was going to be out on the Plains alone and wasn't prepared for being chased by the very people she thought she had gotten rid of back yonder. My huband would say women can't read maps anyway..... I was in New Mexico with my daughter and we were out in the middle of no where and very little gas. There is nothing out there.......

It's scary....and this is in modern times after the West was won. Sarah deserved all she got but you've have to feel sorry for her.

My husband and I were into cowboys and the West so much so that our son's middle name is Rex.

I loved this book. I guess because we spent so much time in the West.

We did most of our camping in the there. You can stand in those hills and almost hear the cowboys singing and smell the fires even now. The kids played cowboys and indians in the Badlands. We hiked trails in Wyoming lost our trailer in a ditch outside of Yellowstone, and stood on all four corners of New Mexico, Colorado, Utah and Arizona, stayed on the Navajo trail and did Rt 66 in our old yellow station wagon singing "Yellow Submarine".WE sang not the station wagon. It was fun and we had no gold......not even the green stuff.

Thanks for waiting for me, but I did ramble on....wow

Yes, Nellie, the stampede was an exciting part of the book .Another part I thought was very suspenseful was transferring the gold from one railroad car to the other. I thought sure something was going to happen. It would've been fun reading how Tom and his men would have fought off the attack..

I too wondered why Sarah didn't turn back. As you say, maybe she thought death on the dessert was better than what waited for her, if she returned.

Babi, I think the guy that drew up the map for Sarah should've pointed out how great the distance was, but it was an error of omission that cost Sarah her life.

CMac, it was worth waiting for you just to read your description of you western experience. I could visualize what you were describing. What a great time you and your family had on your camping trips trip. I visited a lot of places in the West, but alas they were by bus tours and not near the experience of your camping days. But, please, tell us what happened about the "very little gas" and in the middle of now where

That reminded me of the time my wife and I were returning from Florida in 1952, after our honey-moon. We driving up route eleven through Virginia at night.--no interstate highways then--my fuel gage was showing low. We were both worried and, since she was a young girl then, I know she was a bit scared. Then, after what seemed to be an eternity, oh how grand, off in the distance a fuel tank globe was showing We both knew it was a gas station. No problem, but I never let my gas tank get that low again on a trip.

Bill H

I enjoyed your description of your Western travels, too, CMac. Isn't it wonderful how yesterday's troubles and problems become adventures in today's memories?

Bill, you would think the map-maker would have mentioned distances, wouldn't you? On the other hand, Sarah had only asked for their relative positions, and I'm sure it never crossed the man's mind that this sweet little lady tenderfoot would take a notion to set off along across country. ..Babi

Babi, so right you are!

Bill H

A hand-drawn map is not usually done to scale. I know when people do maps on how to get to churches or wedding receptions you just get general directions with a few landmarks thrown in. It was probably the same then. Sarah was not accustomed to the expanse of a desert. It is not uncommon to see signs saying next services 50 miles. I love the west, mountains and dessert, but I know I wouldn't have had the courage to be a pioneer.

To give an idea of how differences in size can take you by surprise: I noted in a Time Mag. article that there is a school district in Laredo, TX that is larger than the state of Delaware. People from back East would simply have no conception of the size of the country and the distances involved in getting from one point to another. ..Babi

Now wait a minute. I have met our little imp, CMac. I believe she is capable of belting out a cowboy song just as loud as any cowpoke could as she rides thru the wild west. She's also capable of taking care of the likes of Sarah and sinking a "yellow submarine" where there shouldn't even be one. What a vivid picture she paints of that desert life.

When the cattle drive reached the railhead was their also a town there or just the railhead. I can’t seem to recall the name of the town being mentioned, if there was one there.

Bill H

Bill, there was a town at the railhead but it had no name because it was a temporary place that provided services to the railroad construction workers. Everything seemed to be portable and easy to move. The mention that the construction crew's camp has moved on to where the new railhead will be, indicates to me that soon the town will pack up and move on to join them.

Thanks, Nellie, I remember now the portability of the town. I do wonder, though, if any of these supply stations remained and grew in to a town with a name. However, before that happened a source of water would have to be available. Interesting just to speculate on the probability.

Bill H

Bill, I was thinking the same thing about a temporary town like that becoming permanent. There would need to be a reliable source of water, and there would have to be some type of 'industry' or something like it to bring people in and to make it worthwhile for the trains to stop there.

I don't know what to say about this book. It was't as fast-paced or exciting as his other novels. But for a few hours he transported us to the beauty of the desert and mountains. I wish he had a stronger and interesting character than the hero, Tom.

Alf, If I had to sing I would remain in the desert. I was thrown out of the church choir as the discord when in High School......

As for what happened when we were low on gas......We were on a brand new resort mountain road which was 10 miles long and no gas stations....so we coasted ten miles down the mountain to save what little gas we had and found a gas station at the foot of the hills...but it was closed... Ok this where you pray....Fortunately prayers were answered and a small out of the way gas stationed appeared about 5 miles down the road run by the Indians.We pulled in the motor conked out........

Never under estimate the power of prayer.We never did find the Resort.

Back to the book. I am on my way to the Libraryfor another L'Amour book so I can make a comparison as North to Rails is the first one I've read. Thanks Bill! Sorry I rambled on about my own experiences..... Clare

Sometime back you asked what our favorites were. The Sackett series were good but my favorite was "The Last of the Breed". It was not a western but had an indian as the main character. Another modern western that I liked was "The Broken Gun".

Are we going to do another one?

Babi, I have taken trips through the West and I was awed at the vast spaces of emptiness that we traveled through for hours at a time. I would think to myself, I would not want to be stranded here alone.

Alf, I'll turn my RealPlayer volume up if you can get CMac to sing.

Nellie, with the knowledge of the portable town moving on as often as it did, the thought of permanency and belonging somewhere, some place must have been upper most in the minds of the women.

Kiyo, I also thought L'Amour painted a beautiful picture of the West with his writing. But as to Tom's character, I thought Louis did a good job in portraying the man. He wasn’t giving us another Wyatt Earp or Matt Dillon. I thought he was describing a peace loving man, who, when needs be, could show a totally surprising strength of force. This made the story very interesting for me.

CMac, you didn't ramble on. It was interesting reading that story and I'm glad you liked "North to the Rails" well enough to try another.

Mommie D, thanks for giving us the titles of those two western's As to doing another, if enough of our readers would like another. I'm sure we will.

Bill H

Bill, those railhead camp towns were there wholly to make a buck serving the needs of the railworkers. They provided whiskey, eating tents/sheds, and entertainment (cards and women). The women were "soiled doves" who went wherever the money was, and had few hopes of settling down unless they were fortunate enough to make..and save...enough money. Sometimes a woman who was young enough, still healthy, and strong would be offered marriage by some lonesome young farmer or rancher who badly needed a wife and helpmate. You rarely saw a respectable woman in one of those camps; usually just passing thru'.

I was brought up in a railroad town and for many years used to ponder what it was like with the town's first inhabitants.

Would anybody care to comment on th biography of L'Amour (there are links in the heading)and the very active life he lead?

Bill H

Could someone tell me the difference between the Prairies and the Plains?

Bill H

Welcome, elitecc! and thank you for giving us that website. We would be more than happy to have you join us in all our discussions.

Bill H

Bill, I don't know if you have read it, but I came across this review of Lamour's writings and thought it was a very moving statement, and really apppropriate while you come to the end of your discussion:

"Louis L'Amour is one of America's most prolific and bestselling authors, writing more than One Hundred novels in a thirty year career. His novels of the old west have sold hundreds of millions of copies, and made him well known and appreciated around the world.

L'Amour wrote with a clean, flowing style that made his work a fast reading journey into the world of the old west, which he showed us in explicit detail. His detail of historical settings resulted from years of research and firsthand observation. He did not present the old west in the common, shoot-em up style that is evident in so many pulp western novels, but instead examined the often brutal effect of white culture on that of the natives, and created characters who endure conflicting feelings about the Native Americans' struggle. His heroes were often recurring characters from the Sackett, Talon and Chantry families, who held strong loyalties to family, had straightforward views on right and wrong, and believed in white Americans' destiny to spread their culture throughout the west. L'Amour's heroes consistently showed great respect for the environment, and an ingrained desire to pursue what they believed to be right and just, and to stand and fight for their values regardless of the odds against them.

L'Amour's skill as a storyteller and chronicler of white and Native American Western lore won him an amazing following of loyal fans. The high moral standards, the ideals and respect for all that he wrote of in his stories, were a great part of the attraction. The creation of the Sacketts and other families that appear throughout his books, brought the reader into the heart of early family life in North America, and the reader quickly became attached to these respectable characters, looking forward to their next appearance."

And the interviewer also writes:

"What I have to say about him is there in the books, all hundred-plus of them, even the potboilers. Nothing new or startling here, nothing the Sun or the Enquirer would spend a paragraph recalling. Just that Louis L’’Amour was the best of us, with our eyes lifted and our hands ready for work, without meanness in our hearts or laziness in our bones. He was the pencil sketch used to make all those great James Montgomery Flagg posters of the Spirit of America, with sleeves rolled up and honesty burning in the eyes. If I’’d known then, sitting and laughing and talking about books, as we wolfed down barbecued beef sandwiches, that one day someone would ask me to write about one of the greatest men I’’ve ever known, I honest to goodness swear I’’d have paid much closer attention.

But to tell you the truth, I was having too damned good a time.
Maybe you had to be there."

Harlan Ellis, from an inteview with Louis Lamour.

Lorrie

Interesting question about plains v. prairie. I had never really considered it. Both are mostly level land, with little variation. I think of the prairies as being more extensive, perhaps because some "plains" are small enough to be given individual names. The Plain of Jericho, for example. The prairies are pretty much treeless, but that may apply to plains as well. I'll run them thru' my Encarta, and see is I learn anything else. ..Babi

I could not find plains v. prairie on the net so I went my dictionary.

Large flat area of country.

Prairie,a grass covered plain in North America. So I would assume that a plain is not grass covered. My guess is that you can grow crops on a prairie but not on a plain. Just guessing

Hope Babi or someone comes up with some thing better.

From what I read in my dictionary, the plains were flatlands and prairies were grasslands. I have thought of Kansas and Nebraska as being a part of the plains but those states are not all flat. Neither is all of Oklahoma or the Dakotas. That would mean that a prairie could be a plain but could also be rolling hills. I think we need a better definition of plains.

Not much to add. Both are basically level, with some "variation", which might include low rolling hills. Grass is definitely associated with prairies. I found references to "short-grass prairies" and "long-grass prairies". So what grows on plains? I'm sure Louis L'Amour could tell us, if we could just find the right book! Maybe I can find some 'Plains' and see what I can learn about them. (Time permitting)...Babi

Lorrie, thank you for that very interesting review by Harlan Elis of L’Amour. I found his biography to be so interesting along with the L'Amour museum that the links in the heading take us to. By reading his bio, I found that Louis L'Amour lived his life to the fullest, doing what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it and never letting success go to his head. What fun he must've had.

Babi, Virginia wright and Mommie D, Your posts about the Plains and Prairies perked my interest in finding more about them. . I must delve in to that now just to satisfy my curiosity.

Virginia, I think your dictionary was very close to the truth about them. I know we can recall Sarah's plight while on the plains. She could find no water and, I assume, no vegetation to survive on. My guess is a Plain is a arid flat land not very good for crops and the like.

Bill H

Now that we come to the close of this discussion (a few days past the closing) of a very great Western writer and outstanding man, I would like to thank all of you who participated in the discussion. Your posts were so interesting and informative. I believe we all are somewhat more enlightened about Louis L’Amour, his life and his novels. I intend to read many more of them. They are so fast moving and adventuresome.

Once again, I do thank all who were kind enough to contribute to our discussion of L’Amour.

Bill H