Hi: Great banner,but you'll have to read the book to find out what RATKING means. It's interesting that some of the things in the book have some relation to some of discussions that have recently appeared in other SN postings. There is some interesting points about the relationship of our hero , Mr Zen,to both his mother & his girlfriend. No Ginny,he does not eat at the Roman equivalent of Arby's ( I have been a "lurker" in that site,but discretion keeps me from commenting on what happened )..I'm really enjoying the book,again,and look forward to the discussion.

I'm looking forward to it, too, Ed. I have heard SO MUCH about Didbin that I can't wait to read it, don't tell me we've got the Arby's situation again!!! Oh well, life imiates art or is it the other way around?? Post wherever you'd like!!

I'm really ready for something new, and did you see that we're to do the Haunting of Hill House in the Horror if it doesn't win in the BC Online?

Ginny

Some questions for your consideration: (1)Does "passing the buck" flow from the top down or move from the bottom up? (2)What is the real reason Zen is on desk duty?

ED, I can't help but remember Harry Truman and his maxim:"The buck stops here!" He was our president and Commander-in-Chief and you just couldn't get any higher. He was the top so the buck flew up to him. As to Italy. I shall have to read and find out.

Carol

Comments about regional differences appear early in this book. The reference is to the perceivied differences between Northern Italians and Southern Italians...When you travel around the USA,do you look for regional differences??Do you enjoy the differences??Do you ever feel apprehensive about the differences??

Good Morning Ed,

I am looking forward to the discussion really getting started in here today.

Joan

I'm running late, but have dashed in to say "thank you" to Ed for one of the more enjoyable reads I have EVER encountered, loved the book from page one to the end, never knew who did it, not even when the author had Zen know, never. I do think he could have left some of Silvio's more shall we say decadent pursuits out, but that was only one page or so, nothing in a tremendously well written, wonderful book. It makes you wonder if reviewers ever READ the books they comment on.

Immediately turned to the end papers and found 2 more of his I want, an English Country House Mystery and one on Venice: the Lagoon something. The man writes like a champ. He's obviously British tho he lives now in Seattle, keeps saying come over for "a" coffee, which we don't say.

I think this is the most inventive beginning of a book I ever read. How clever. I wonder why this book has not been optioned for a film, it reads like one. You are caught up immediately, yet there's nothing uncomfortable about it. Very slick writing.

Did you notice the italics when the other person was speaking into the phone?? Very effective, very well done.

Now the business of Zen's being on a desk job was nicely handled, too. It remained, for those of us who had not read any others in the series, a mystery almost to the end, nicely tied in with the other plots. In fact, one amazing thing to me was that even at the denouement, the new plot twists went on, but they were not objectionable, rather clever.

So often when you read a sequel in a popular series, the author either explains it from the first page or just assumes you know, both are obvious. THIS book is different, in many many ways, I loved it and that's the truth.

Apparently, in the eyes of the Italians, there is a big difference in Southern Italy and Northern Italy. My recent trip all over Italy didn't reveal much of that to MY eyes, but our friends living there were full of denunciation of the Southern Italian way. Crime, louts, laziness, corruption. Thought Dibdin did a good job of mentioning all of those, too. I had not realized romantic decaying Venice was considered Northern, but so it is. Quite different from Milano, that's for sure.

As far as regional differences in the US, I think prejudice exists on the part of persons NOT from a particular area toward the area they may be travelling in, and some people love to play up on those preconceptions: sometimes to the hilt. People are the same everywhere, all the same, the customs and language may be different, but I think people are basically the same. I have noted however, that some regions seem to have their own "language signals" by which a native can understand immediately, communicate immediately, while an outsider may still be going on the surface words. This is a drawback sometimes to effective communication, when a shrug means Yes in one region and NO in another.

I did note a strong mention always of accents and how important that seemed: very much like the British. I don't know whether the Italians are as cognizant of upper and lower class accents as the British are, and Dibdin is British, so one can only wonder if he has pushed here his own opinions over.

I'd like to know more about Dibdin, how long he spent in Italy, wonder how we could find out? He's a wonderful writer.

More later, my book is heavily underlined!

Ginny

Hi everyone: Welcome to Ratking. Ginny..thanks for your great post. I think this is the first of the Zen series.. I sent a letter to Mr Didbin via his publisher,inviting him to join us,but I never received a reply...but you never know.. I believe that the reason Zen is at a desk job is because he botched the Aldo Morro case.. Interesting how the author took a real life event & weaves it into fiction..I guess this is a case of art imitating life.. There is a line that I especially like..when the young Roman on the train (in the beginning)pronounces that there are worst things that chaos and the loud-mouthed Veronese says "And what might they be?" and the Roman says"Too much order," and then there is an exposition about how too much order would never be enough for Italy...If he (the Veronese)were an American he would probably be a Republican ,bemoaning big gov"t..although I think his remarks have a slight faschist tint.

>>>>>Regarding regional differences..In younger days I never appreciated the differences..I recall being at Ft Jackson, S.C. and having a pass to go into Columbia and being appalled at the way people were speaking ( I was a very naive Yankee from the "effete" North East). I went some place and ordered a sandwich & the guy behind the counter asked me "Do you all want a Po Boy?" and I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. Of course, now i love the differences and when we travel,we love to explore various neighborhoods in the cities & especially the different regional food..In fact, I learned to adore grits during my stay in the South & they just never taste the same up here..Also,the first time we drove to Florida (with the kids)we stopped for breakfast in North Carolina and were totally intimidated by the waitress when we ordered eggs without any "meat"...She just could't believe it and insisted that we have bacon or ham..and breakfast has never been the same since..

>>>> Anyway,speaking of chaos vs order Mr Zen seems to be a " cool" guy,but I think his relationship with his girlfriend, Ellen and his mother put his personal life in a lot of chaos...What do you think?

The relationship between Zen & his mother is very strained.Mother has moved in with Zen with all of her worldly possessions, "possessions laden with dull memories and obscure significance." I know that there are posessions I had that had unhappy memories so I trashed them and started fresh...He also is uptight about her birthday and she is always telling him that he should have gone to work for the railroad like his father did...Do you think there are generalities regarding advise that mothers give to their sons? I don't know but I think we all have to find our own way.

Ed: that's another set of good questions, the crashes are taking stuff away. I didn't quite understand the Mother sequences, that's actually a kinda weak part of the book? Why are they there? Why is the mother introduced at all? Is this from a prior book? How OLD is this Zen? I'm not understanding the mother here at all, tho I can understand how certain pieces of furniture hold very unpleasant meanings.

As for advice, that's all I've had lately to my two sons, who seem to think they can actually manage without MOM's marvelous advice in their Engineering careers. But MOM knows so much!!! However I would never say you should have gone into thus or so after a child had BEEN in a particular field for a long time.

I think you have to get to a certain AGE to appreciate some kinds of furniture? Says the woman who just bought a room full. Fearfully.

Ginny

Hi: I'm not sure of Zen's age,but he seems to be reduced to jelly by his mother or even thinking about her.... His girlfriend ,Ellen, is a divorced American and we really do not know how he met her,but she seems to be having second thoughts about their relationship and she doen't really know much about him..Ellen is quite disturbed that Zen's mother calls her his mistress..Ellen questions Zen why he gives his mother so much power over him, and he tells her that mother's are the only people that can be trusted with that power...It msy be a genetic thing.

Hi; ANYONE notice that there is a dark side to Zen regarding his father? Any comments?

Ed: I think there are a LOT of dark sides to Zen. I was fascinated by the description of him early on: he's distant, a cold fish. Slightly sinister (p.10). We never do warm to him, do we?

Where does Dibdin talk about the father? I don't remember seeing that? Dibdin drops SO much into little descriptions that it makes your head spin: you'll be hearing about a railway car and all of a sudden a woman pulls out her "identity card which was her only poor talisman against the dark powers of the State," and your mind whirls on another course. The book is full of these moments, and you really end up learning a great deal about something you knew just a little of.

In the first 15 pages he mentions "Italian time," which, if you've been there, is not the joke people say it is. IN fact, last summer, we had NO trains run late, and several leave early!

You learn that "the police these sdays are a bad joke" That the country is divided into the South and the North, and lots and lots of mottoes, "It's better to travel hopefully than to arrive,"

On his mother, he said, "That was the trouble with living with someone you loved more than anyone else in the world, but had nothing in common with now but blood and bones." That's powerful, and just thrown in to the plot.

Now, I had several questions about the book?

For instance, what, really did the ratking concept (did he make that up?) have to do with anything? I realize what it was supposed to symbolize, but somehow it didn't connect for me? I think it's actually been shown that rats, when confined, turn on each other? So thirty of them by the tail wouldn't exist together, I don't think? So here I have a problem reconciling fiction with what might be fact? This is found on pages 76 and 77, and I don't know where he got this?

And how would those tails get entwined?

Looks like it's you and me in here, Ed, and that's OK, I apologize for being off for a while, but was kinda sad.

Did YOU guess who done it ahead of time?

Tell you one thing: I sure won't have any problem finding a good read next time I go to England, his books are everywhere and he's a very good writer.

Where did you see that about his father?

Ginny

Hi Ginny: I've tried to track down "ratking" but have no success. Maybe it has something to do with the final result of something being greater than the sum of its parts?...or,because all the rat's tails are intertwined and the result is this bigger than life creation maybe it's a metaphor for the destructive symbiotic relationship that exists in the Miletti domain....or the Miletti's are so powerful in Perugia and their hands (tails)extend into every phase of Perugian life and society ,that everyone lives in fear of them.

Re: Zen's father..Check page 115 & 116 and the railroad tunnel. Also,the first two paragraphs of Chapter 7..Actually, I suggest re-reading Chapter 7 & you find out what happened to Zen's father and how it scarred him for the rest of his life.

Ed, of course you are right about Zen's father! I plan to reread that when I get back in this afternoon, I do, however, remember the tunnel. I think that's a perfect example of how personal reading is to each one of us, something that one person might really react to and glom on, another might say, OK, yes, trauma with Father, so? What's that doing here, OK, this is a grown man, OK, moving on. Which is what I did?

The father trauma: has this been mentioned in prior books? It's quite well done but extraneous to the plot, I think. Or is it? A grown man going on about Mom and Dad?

As far as the Ratking, I think Dibdin meant it to be all the things you state, (and you stated them very well) but unfortunately, it's my personal take on a book that if I'm learning something new, like the concept of the Ratking, it needs to be true or factual? Now maybe new studies have been done that disprove the last ones I read about on rats and stress and overcrowding, but when you have to reject the premise and title of a book out of hand, something suffers.

I like the metaphor, but it's strained, that's what I'm saying.

He still writes well and I will definitely read another.

Ginny

Hi Ed and Ginny,

I am in the process of reading this book. I am just slow getting it done. I used to be sucha fast reader but now I find that I will put a book down at the slightest excuse and I find many. Sorry I started this one so late.

Joan

Terrific, Joan, we await your incisive mind!

He's got a new one out, too, I just saw it yesterday, and i