Welcome everybody to our new discussion. Time to get a copy of "The Secret" so that on August 1st we can all come in, settle down, and start to gab about this book. Pull up a comfortable chair and enjoy a cool drink. We can look out at the trees and relax as we chat.

I'm going over to the barn today to see if I can find my copy of The Secret. I'm pretty sure we will all enjoy reading it. Our new banner is very well done, Marjorie, thanks. Sue

Hi SUE. Welcome to our new home. Romance readers get a new home often. Not like in some discussions where they wait for 1500 posts first. Any decorating you would like to do here?

Marjorie

Just popped in to the new room. I'm a teddy bear collector. I can bring a teddybear to stick in a chair, or corner. See you all later.

Hi RUTH. Glad to have your teddy bear.

Good morning all. I'm eager to get started on The Secret to see if others feel the way I do about Garwood's writing. But in the meantime, Sue: what is the barn? Do you actually have a barn full of books? I've seen your mention of it before and am curious if you don't mind sharing. Marj

Good morning M and everyone. Beautiful day today. I just found out my copy of "The Secret" will be sent to me Priority on Monday. I guess I will be late starting my reading this time. That is OK. You are all pretty good at keeping things going.

Marjorie

Good morning everyone. Has anyone started reading "The Secret" yet? How do you like the banner this morning? Looks pretty good to me.

I've not only started I've finished The Secret. This book is so readable I didn't want to stop. But I'll confine my remarks to the opening pages for those who aren't into it yet. Garwood sets the scenes so well I could see, not only the "punishment rock" Frances Catherine had to perch on, but the festival as well. The two girls are very appealing and their personalities seem to mesh so well, I wonder if Julie Garwood had a childhood friend like that. Their dialogue is typical of 4-5-year-olds and wonderful to eavesdrop on. More later. Marj

M(arj): It is nice to know that you really enjoyed this book. I should be getting my copy tomorrow or the next day. I am anxious to read it. Nobody should hold up discussing it for me. I will catch up when I get the book.

Marjorie

Good morning everyone! Have you all subscribed here?

SUE posted in "The Invitation" that she has read the book but probably won't post until she returns from a trip on Aug. 7.

M has also read "The Invitation."

Like me, NORTHERN JOAN doesn't yet have her copy.

Status anyone else?

I got my book this afternoon and started reading it. Thank you so much M(arj) for suggesting we read this one. I can see why everyone finished it quickly. I like the characters in the book. I haven't read many that made me feel good like this one did. I have only read a couple of chapters. I do agree that the description of the 2 little girls was beautifully done. I haven't ready any of Julie Garwood's books before. Are all of hers as good as this one?

Marjorie

Marjorie, I can recommend all of Garwoods early books.The Gift, Saving Grace, and her own favorite--Honor's Splendour, among others. I have to admit I didn't care as much for her Roses series. I just finished her latest "Heartbreaker" which was more about suspence and I didn't like it as much as her others.These comments are not meant to disparage her ability as a writer, they just didn't appeal to me. Discussing favorite books is great fun, isn't it? Thanks for providing ths forum. Marj

I am so far behind. I have been super busy and haven't been on the srnet. I think for the last two days. Shame on me. I'm leaving th 9th of August and won't be back til the 21st. So, won't get started in here, either. But......I'll be reading. I finally finished Tears on the Moon. It was good, but as I expected how it would end. Her last of this Trilogy will Heart of the Sea. It will probably be Darcy's turn. Bye for now, Ruth. Happy Reading!!!!!

imaknitter it is so good to see you here again. I do hope you will enjoy your time off from us. Will be waiting for your return.

Ginger

RUTH: Enjoy your time off.

GINGER: Are you reading "The Secret" to join in our discussion? How far have you gotten. I am almost half-way through the book and it sure draws me from chapter to chapter.

Marjorie

Got my copy today. Will take it along to our family bonding weekend at the lake. Hope I find some time to read!

Northern Joan

One of the little things I thought was interesting was the authors ability to provide insight into her characters so that the reader knows them before actual physical descriptions take place.One of the complaints in society I've heard over the years is don't judge a person by their appearance. In The Secret you don't have to. I think Judith Elizabeth is sensitive, loyal, and stubborn but has a sense of humor. Frances Catherine is also loyal and trusting.Has anyone else noted this author's ability to bring her characters alive? Marj

Marj: I was wondering what made this such a comfortable book to read. I think you have hit on it. The characters are very real. I can fill in the blanks of the description myself. What Julie Garwood writes about here is how her characters think and what is real about their decisions. Not just surface stuff. I hadn't noticed what it was but I imagine if I go back and look I will find you are right about the physical descriptions. I don't think I missed them either. They just weren't necessary. The scene of the two little girls certainly was clearly written so that I could imagine the place they were in and the way they were being with each other and with their own thoughts and feelings. I am close to the end of the book and still haven't seen any charactures only characters. Since I have been reading a lot of "throw away" romances lately on the treadmill, I have seen lots of stories with the sterotypes in different settings. I was getting quite bored with them. This is so refreshing.

Marjorie

Hope you don't mind me coming in to say HI - even though I'm not reading The Secrect. You sure are making it sound interestng. I'll see if I can get it, so I can enjoy it also. I'll be thinking of you all while I'm enjoying my 2 weeks with family. Finding some relatives I don't know at our reunion. Bye for now, Happy Reading!!! Ruth

RUTH: I don't remember any rule that says you have to be reading the book to post in here. Did I miss something? <G> Seriously, you are most welcome to say "Hi." Have a great time on your trip.

I just finished the book. I think maybe I will reread it and look for what Marj was saying about characters being introducted long before their physical description is given.

Marjorie

I didn't think there was a rule along that line, I was just being polite.

I don't see anyone in here today. Too busy reading, I guess.

It's nearing bed time, so will bid you a good-night. Maybe there will be someone to talk with tomorrow. Ruth

RUTH: I hope you had a good night's sleep. I plan to go to bed myself soon.

Nothing is being said about the book. Has she found her father? Has the baby been born? I just have tonight and tomorrow and then I'll be away for 2 weeks. Clue me in. Happy reading, Ruth

RUTH: I don't know if people are waiting not to spoil the story. Francis Catherine's baby is born safely. SUE said she had finished the book but would be away until today at least.

Marjorie

Thanks: When I get back on the 21st, you'll probably be into discussion on a different book. I'm reading the Sara Petrosky(sp?) I bought a week or so ago. I'll take the John Grisham book with me to have something to read. On plane and before I go to sleep at night. Happy Reading, everyone. Love, your friend Ruth

Hello all, I've been waiting, hoping others would join in. When I read a book with long travel on horseback in the story, I wonder how they did it. Necessity, I guess. I've been to the Highlands and travel through there could not have been easy. I think that trip Iain took Judith on was well-described. I kind of like the old men of the council. They're trying to be wise but sometimes act like children. Does anyone think the villagers are typically unfriendly to outsiders or is this exaggerated? Agnes infuriated me with her spreading fear in new mothers-to-be. Would this be common? I like to get a good picture of how life was in the time of the story setting. Maybe somewhere in this there's room for comments??? Marj

M: Good questions. Thanks. I am not a history buff and have no idea how realistic any of this is. I was reading a review of the next book and the reviewer said that "plaids" weren't used until hundreds of years later as identification for clans in Scotland. This may not be historically accurate. I do think that there is an Agnes in almost every group. I didn't like her, of course, and still felt she was necessary to the story.

I wonder how realistic it was that Judith was asked to help with three other childbirths after Isabelle's while Iain was away. I liked the way the women flocked around Judith at the end of the book.

I have never been on horseback and can't begin to imagine how the trip could have been made. I think I got on a pony for a ride around the block when I was little. That's about it. When they took that ride from England to Scotland, it didn't seem like they stopped for a noon meal or to take any "rest" breaks. They seemed to ride straight through until nightfall. I can't imagine that on or off horseback.

Of course, most of the action takes place when they reach Maitland land. I liked the way Judith "convinced" the elders to stay at the keep after she was married. She was able to make the keep into a home with Helen's help.

I have ordered the sequel to this book. I enjoyed it a lot.

Marjorie

I have not finished the book. I have only read to the part where Iain comes to get Judith to help Isabelle. The long journey was amazing. I hardly think in that time a woman would have gone with four men. I too have been to the Sottish Highlands and it could have been very rugged travel.

I think Judith is very 'modern' for a novel set in the 1600s! What do you think?

I am enjoying the read.

What is the sequel?

Northern Joan

NORTHERN JOAN: I agree that Judith is very modern. I just checked the book and it is the 1200's not even the 1600's. The sequel is called "Ransom." There is an excerpt from Ransom at the end of my copy of "The Secret."

Marjorie

I think Garwood didn't spend a lot of time on the difficulties of the travel as she needed to keep her plot rolling. But it doesn't take much imagination to see that it must have been very difficult. Once when I was small, my daddy was moving one of his farm horses from the farm to someplace 12 miles away. He and I walked along beside the horse and my 2 younger sisters rode on the horse. We started out about 5:30 in the morning. It was still dark. We didn't arrive at our Grandmother's house until very late in the afternoon. My grandmother was angry with him because I'd had to walk most of the way.

I also have several books on Medieval times and an especially interesting diary of American pioneer women who moved West in the 1800s. These times were really difficult. I don't think we can really comprehend just how primitive the conditions were in the 1800s, 1600s, and 1200s. We take too much for granted these days. Sue

SUE: I am sure we take a lot for granted. I have never lived on a farm and can't imagine even the walk you had to take to get to your grandmother's house in the 1900's much less the trip that Judith took with the Scottish warriors from England to the Highlands in the 1200's.

Marjorie

There's no question we have it easier with our travels, so why do we try to emulate old times. I rode a horse in Wyoming for three hours up into the mountains--the next day I couldn't move when I woke up.There goes my wish for time travel. I love the dialogue between Iain and Judith. It's witty and endearing. He's ever patient with her. I'm thinking particularly after she helps Isabelle with the birth of her baby.She's so scared but doesn't let down until after the fact. I think the storyline flows. Everything is sequential. Sometimes, only in contrast, is it easy to see how well some authors do things.I just finished a recent Deveraux book. It is uneven and characters pop up that I don't remember from early in the story, inconsistencies,etc. Anyway, Marjorie I have Ransom in hardcover which I haven't read in a long while. I'd forgotten it was a sequel to The Secret.Thanks for the reminder--I'll take another look. Marj

M: I think you have hit it on the head. I know best from contrast that I like one author better than the other. It doesn't always hold for all the books written by the same author though. Some of it may be my mood too when I am reading something. Seems like we have all agreed that this book was well written and is an enjoyable one to read.

Marjorie

I am enjoying the read, but I really don't think any woman would be so modern in her thinking back in the 1200s. I don;t think the historical accuracy of the book is real good, but I do like the characters.

Northern Joan

NORTHERN JOAN: When I read a romance novel generally I suspend belief and just go for a fantasy. I assume that nothing would ever really happen as it does in the stories. Maybe I am wrong, of course. That is just my approach. If I were reading something that was presented as an historical novel, I would have different expectations. I am glad I was introduced to this author.

I agree there tends to be a lack of historical accuracy in Romance novels but I think it's fun to go with the fantasy. I believe I read somewhere that Garwood has a degree in library sciences and that she does tons of research for her books??? Someone was questioning the tartans in one of the posts I just read--I understand that two Englishmen actually "invented" the tartan and its various color combinations and their connection to clans. But a tartan is different than a plaid. I suspect, and this is only a guess, that history gives way to storyline in many instances.I felt sorry for Judith's father. He obviously was a victim of female (wife) manipulation.Of course he didn't pursue her into England either thereby letting her get away with her selfish pursuits. Marj

M: How is a tartan different from a plaid? I just assumed they were the same. What do you mean 'two Englishmen actually "invented" the tartan and its various color combinations and their connection to clans'? Do you have a reference where I can read more about that? I don't usually care about history and still I find that interesting. I certainly agree that Judith's father, and her brother, aunt and uncle, were manipulated by her mother. Judith managed pretty well in spite of all of that.

Marjorie

I plan to read a more of Garwood. I enjoyed the book. It really took on quite a women's lib theme didn't it?

It was nice to see all the women and children supporting her in the end. She found a source of support and felt at home among them.

Northern Joan

NORTHERN JOAN: She sure did find the home she needed. Not at all likely given her circumstances and yet it is a necessary part of the story. I can't imagine making the changes she made even though her life was not a good one.

Marjorie

When I was traveling through Scotland I learned about the tartans. Plaids are rectangle-shaped pieces of cloth that are used by the Highlanders in many ways.They were made in dull colors to blend into their surroundings and according to the dyes available to the weavers in the area and date back centuries. The information is sketchy but maybe a pic of a man in a kilt was found dating from the 1660's.I read somewhere two Englishmen in later years pursued the idea of tartans and kilts with bright colors for specific occasions--dress, battle, etc and tied them into individual clans. These were banned after the Jacobite uprising in the mid 1740's. It's big business today. Perhaps other readers are more informed than I and will share their knowledge in this area. Back to the book. What do you think the "secret" is? Marj

M: I wondered about the "secret" and it seemed to me it had to do with Judith's birth. It seems nothing was clear to anyone about what happened. Certainly Judith grew up with a lie about it. Later when she was told what she thought was the truth it was only a partial truth because she didn't expect what she found when she investigated it.

Marjorie

was the lie that Judith's father left her and was dead. The additional lie by her mother and uncle was that he fought for the English and was killed, plus his supposed "bones" in the grave site in England.

Deception by her mother was necessary to the plot, of course. There seemed to be foreshadowing in the way Judith's mother treated and neglected her. Judith was told that it was because the mother loved the father so much that it was painful for her to see Judith. However, we know she loathed the father and Judith, too. The mother was really the wicked witch in this story.

BTW, I've almost finished reading Garwood's Ransom, too. It's pretty good, but we don't see much of Judith and Iain although they play a pivotal role in the plot. Sue

I agree the secret has to do with Judith's real father but I, also, thought, just for fun, it could be the way babies are made--Francis Catherine and Judith Elizabeths way! Never drink wine a man has spit in! :~) If you liked this book then I can recommend Judith McNaught's early books. Historical--Whitney, My Love, Kingdom of Dreams, Once and Always. Contemporary--Paradise and Perfect,etc.Marj

M: I hadn't thought of that for the secret. It is a great suggestion. I am sure the girls didn't tell anyone else about it and it was just between them.

SUE: I am glad you are enjoying Ransome. I ordered it and should get it soon.

Tonight I found out I have to report for jury duty at 8:15 am tomorrow. What an ungodly hour for me since I have been retired. Anyway, I don't know when I will get back here to post because I don't know if I will actually have to serve on a jury or just wait until I am told they don't need me. I imagine I will be very tired tomorrow night

Marjorie

I also thought part of the secret might be her brother. It all has to do with her mother's hiding her father from her.

I wish we had had a bit more insight into her mother. We are only hearing one side of the story!

Northern Joan

NORTHERN JOAN: I guess there were a lot of secrets in the book. I got home late and so far am sittng on the jury but they haven't finished the selection process so I guess I could be dismissed tomorrow. I believe I will need to find some time to get on SeniorNet everyday even if I do serve on the jury so that I can keep my sanity. Just kidding. This is a good place to come after a day of just sitting.

It would seem about time to select the next book. I have listed here a few historical romances that got good reviews in the Romance Reader and are available in paperback. I sent this to people in an email. Let me know if you didn't receive the email and want to be on my list. Please post or email your preference or another book you would like to read next. "The Love Charm" is not available at B&N in paperback but is available in paperback at Borders.

Adele Ashworth - "My Darling Caroline" (Winner of the 1999 RITA award for Best Romance -- Best First Book)

Lady Caroline Grayson had always wanted to study botany--until an arranged marriage threatened her dream. But she never expected her new husband to support her--and she never expected to fall in love...

Pamela Morsi - "The Love Charm " - a Cajun story -1996 ("fans of Jill Marie Landis & early LaVyrle Spencer will like it") *****

Aida Fachet is the prettiest woman on the Vermillion River and is accustomed to having everything her heart desires--so she has chosen to marry the handsomest man on the river. After all, it seems like the perfect match. The only problem is neither party seems too interested in actually tying the knot. Armand is madly in love with Aida, but how can he pursue her when she's already engaged to his best friend?

Patricia Ryan - "Wild Wind" - 11th century in Normandy (Over 150,000 copies of Patricia Ryan's books in print)

Fiercely loyal to the king, a rugged soldier has no desire for any other attachments or commitments - until he once again sets eyes on a beautiful woman from his past. With her future in jeopardy, and his passion burning for her once more, he is now her only hope for a life of happiness and eternal love!

Elizabeth Grayson - "The Color of the Wind" - 1800's Wyoming - 1999 - ***** (good characterization )

Let the acclaimed Elizabeth Grayson touch your heart as only she can...with a poignant, passionate story of a woman's sacred promise and a man's search for himself amid the dangerous splendor of the West.

A deathbed request...

To honor the promise she gave her dying stepsister, Ardith Merritt must take her niece and nephews to their father--a continent away from her comfortable life as a children's book illustrator. But the perilous journey will bring her face-to-face with her darkest fears...and the man who betrayed her so many years ago.

A chance for redemption...

Exiled to a ranch in Wyoming by his aristocratic British family, Baird Northcross is a failure, a scoundrel, a cad--a man with no future. Until the rugged beauty of the land, the unexpected satisfaction of hard work, and the presence of a woman like no other awaken him to the possibility of happiness...if only he can keep from destroying this last, precious chance to win her love.

I checked my local library and none of those books are available there. Only one is available in our library system. So guess it really doesn't matter too much which we choose. I will be gone a lot in September so may just skip the next one.

Generally, I do not buy fiction books. I see no point in buying them when the library has so many to read. If you buy them, then you have to figure out how to get rid of them.

Northern Joan

NORTHERN JOAN: I know what you mean about "finding a way to get rid of them" (books of fiction). I have quite a few waiting for me to do just that. I know people who save fiction and wonder if I should be doing that because I just picked up a book that I must have gotten sometime this year on eBay and realized I had already read it. I guess it before I started making a list of the books I had read because I was buying a lot of ones I had already read and "gotten rid of." Sorry you won't be joining us next time. Do you have a suggestion for October when you will have more time?

Marjorie

I'd like to address the way I "get rid" of books. We have some paperback (and one hardback) book stores where books can be traded in for others for 20% of the listed price credit. The books are also sold for half price. And the nice thing is, in one store, if you get home and found you've read the book you can trade it in on another. I never pay full price for a book unless it's a gift. Our church has a yard sale once a year where we can unload books. Or our libary has two annual book sales where they welcome donations.And I donate them to the Domestic Violence thrift store. And lots of people have yard sales where they sell their books.Lots of places to get rid of ...but also to stock up again.I manage to keep some of my favorites and classics. Marj

Marj....that works if you live in a large town or a city. In small town America that doesn't work....the library is always trying to get rid of old books. They are not overly crazy about paperbacks unless it is a popular author.

I know I could haul them to the Twin Cities to take to used book stores, but I don't wish to bother with that.

So, I don't buy them very often. I do buy non fiction books which I am apt to keep in my collection.

Northern Joan

Marjorie, on the new selections. I like the plot outlines for My Darling Caroline and The Love Charm. I'll call my library tomorrow and see if they have any of the four titles. If not, I'll try the used book store. Then I'll let you know what is available here. Sue

Well, now I have one vote for each of the four books I suggested. More votes please.

I'm back from my vacation and had a super time. Met with Pat, Carollee & Vicki at a luncheon in Tinley Park, Ill. We talked from ll:30 til 3. I'm not familiar with any of the authors you mention, but what ever you pick, I'm sure I'll like. I was in Senior Net, last night, but only for a short time. So, tonight, this is my first stop. Good to be back. Ruth

RUTH: Welcome back. Glad you had a good time.

Ok. The next selection will be "My Darling Caroline" by Adele Ashworth. MEM said her library has this book and the book got a couple of votes. I suppose we will start the discussion of "My Darling Caroline" around Sept 1.

I just found (and slightly edited) this description of "My Darling Caroline" in a review in the Romance Reader. It makes the book sound more interesting than the short description I posted before.

Caroline Grayson is the third of five daughters. All her sisters are either married or promised. Unlike her tall, blonde, and beautiful sisters, Caroline is short and dark and, with such competition, unconcerned about her appearance. Extremely bright and talented in science and math, Caroline has plans. She has represented herself as male and has been accepted to study botany at Columbia University in New York.

Before it's time to leave, however, she overhears her father bribing Brent Ravenscroft to marry her. Brent had left his estate in the care of a cousin while he was serving with Wellington on the continent. When he returned home, he discovered that Caroline's father now owns Brent's horses and will sell them to another unless Brent marries Caroline.

Caroline feels betrayed and decides that she will marry Weymerth but obtain an annulment when it's time for her to sail to America.

Brent is furious that he has been forced into marriage against his will. However, Brent wants a son and heir.

"This is only the first two chapters!"

The book sounds great. Lots of possiblities. I look forward to getting the book. Not much time to look for it, but I'll do my best. Had a good talk with Pat at our luncheon in Tinley Park. Saw the pictures she posted. As I told Vickie, glad I didn't break Pat's camera. See you all tomorrow. Ruth Lupien

I haven't got the book yet either RUTH. If we have to postpone the discussion a little for people to get the book we will do so. Let's just wait and see what happens.

I spent most of my afternoon looking for a copy of "My Darling Caroline." I started with the second hand book store. Not there. Then the library. Only one copy and that one has been checked out. Then the local Barnes & Noble bookstore. Not there either. Only a more recent book by the same author. I ended up back at home ordering the book over the Internet. I could have saved myself time and energy if I had just started with the Internet as I did the last time. Oh well!

Marjorie

SUE: I started reading "Ransome" last night. Julie Garwood is great with her descriptions. I enjoyed the scene with the little girls so much in "The Secret" and was hoping for a similar scene here. Everything was well described in "Ransome." It was just not a pleasant picture that was drawn. I think I will enjoy this book too.

Hi Marjorie! I'm glad you're enjoying Ransom. I'm reading Garwood's Saving Grace today and enjoying it as well. I own most of her books and take them out about once a year to reread.

I called my library yesterday and they don't have My Darling Caroline. We're going to the beach tomorrow morning for a few days. I will try thrift stores and used book stores as well as the library down there to see if I can scare up a copy. If I can't find it there, I'll order off the Internet. Sue

I'm glad to see others are enjoying Garwood books. She's one of my favorites. Our library doesn't have My Darling Caroline either.Nor could I find it at our used book place but I did get Jayne Ann Krentz's newest Eclipse Bay so I'd say it was worth the trip.....Except in line to pull out of the parking lot someone backed into my car.:~( Needless to say I didn't get to the next book store. Oh well...Marj

MARJ: I hope you weren't hurt when your car was hit and there was not any damage. That has happened to me and it sure stoped me in my tracks and interrupted what I was about to do next. I just finished "Eclipse Bay" and it was not as confusing as some of her plots. I hope you enjoy it. I found some elements from previous books in the story.

Marjorie: My car was damaged but I wasn't. Thanks for asking.Will we start the new discussion on Friday this week? I'll be looking for the book asap.Hope y'all had a good weekend. I personally am sick of rain but at least no hurricanes--shhh--as yet.Can anyone suggest some authors (romance) who know how to write? I've discarded two books in the last two days--the writing was so bad. Besides Garwood, McNaught, Krentz. I've read and enjoyed some of Lowell, Roberts, Lindsey and McKinney. Appreciate it. Marj

M: If everyone has there book we will start the discussion on Friday. The new place will be ready in a day or two for us to move in.

Any other comments about "The Secret?" "Ransom" is just as engrossing.

M: I was at our 2nd hand store the other day looking for "My Darling Caroline" and books to carry in the car. The store owner recommended Luanne Rice's "Cloud Nine" and gave me some romance novels by authors she said are all good. I don't remember all her comments about them. I think she said Peggy Webb always has some humor. I also bought Sandra Canfield, Barbara Faith,Maggie Shayne, and Cheryl Biggs. Let us know if you read any of them. It will be awhile before I get to them. I enjoyed Ciji Ware's "A Cottage by the Sea."

For those of you who are ready to go to our new home it is here:

"My Darling Caroline"

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