Hey guys, where is anyone? Its almost the end of the month of Sep. and there isn't anything here. Guess I'll find a host to ask about this situation. Thanks. Shirley

Shirley, thanks for posting in this discussion. The original intent was to start this discussion on September 1 but there were some delays in the current discussion of "The Scarlet Thread" and the discussion leader decided to delay the beginning of this book. In looking at the heading I see that I had failed to change the beginning date in the narrative above (have done so now) and that it still read to begin on September 1. This discussion will begin soon and we sure hope you will join in. In the meantime feel free to join in any of the other discussions here on SeniorNet, especially those in the Books and Literature area.

Larry

Thanks Larry - I contacted Ginny Anderson and she sent me just about the same info. Really appreciate it. Will keep my eye on this spot. Shirley

I have already read this book, so will have to get it out and refresh my memory. When one reads a lot, and I don't read nearly as much as some do, it's hard to separate books and characters. But, I'll be ready when the time comes.

This looks like a great group, and you'll all enjoy Carole, this will be great.

We've pushed the beginning of the discussion to October 30th, and hope everyone will enjoy the discussion.

Ginny

Hi guys, would you believe when I got to page 459 in the paperback edition, the page was missing? I got the book at a resale shop in the library. Had to go to neighborhood library to see what was missing. Now I have to go back and copy the page. Duh. Glad to see a date has been set. Shirley

Hello everyone!

I am back, and I am looking forward to discussing this wonderful book with everyone. I am in the process of reading it, and am really enjoying it.

We will start October 30, and jump right into the story. If you have comments, discussion topics, or general thoughts and feelings, get ready. We will have an open dscussion, so feel free to say whatever comes to mind.

See you soon!!!!!

Carole

HELLO!!!!!!

Here we are, finally, ready to discuss this wonderful book by Rosamund Pilcher. I have just finished it, and wish I hadn't, as I feel like I lost contact with good friends.

I had a difficult time with the beginning of the book, as I slowly got to know the characters. I knew they would eventually come together, but I found myself going back and forth trying to remember where I had met them. I immediately warmed to Violet,and sensed that she would be the glue that held the family together.

I was transported to Scotland from the start, and felt as if I was part of the village. The countryside was so realistically portrayed that I felt at home even through I have never been there. I will definitely correct that fault. Perhaps we can talk Ginny into having the 1999 book reunion in Scotland.

First Question - Do you think the title was appropriate? Second Question - Who do you think is the strongest character? Third Question - Who did you like the best?

Can't wait to get your thoughts and comments on this wonderful book.

Carole

Hi Carole and all lurkers,yes, I too felt as though I were in Scotland and wouldn't we love to be there. I really felt that the story kept building to the month of September and at one point, wondered if the story would get there in time for the dance! Even tho I read it once and am on the second reading just for this discussion, I'll have to think about questions two and three. I thought it was a good story with no strong love or sex in it and was surprised to find it a romance.I thought romance stories were the strong passionate emotions.I just learned they can be gentle feelings too.

Shirley,

I work in a bookstore, and Pilcher's novels are listed as Romances, but I truly think they should be fiction. If Sandra Brown and Danielle Steele are catagorized as "fiction", then this author should truly be so. She writes such a wonderful story of families and their ties, and her characters have much more going for them than just a romance, but since we are lucky enough to have them listed as "Romance", we can discuss her here.

I felt that "September" was more than just the month. It seemed to relate to many of the characters and their personal lives. The month not only was full of social interaction but it also was considered my many as the most beautiful month in Scotland. It was appropriate that the story began in May, when the long isolated winter was over, and ended with September, when the winter was about to begin again. I thought that many of the family members went through the same process in this story.

I felt that the introduction and mystery of Pandora (how appropriate a name) throughout the story was almost irritating. She somehow overshadowed all the characters by her absence and the feeling of threat that I felt from her. What did you think of her?

See you soon,

Carole

Carole, how interesting that you felt Pandora overshadowed the others. I thought it was interesting that her brother kept in touch with her and kept sending reminders of home. Have thought about who is the strongest character and must say thatmost of them are strong people. But I have decided that Edmund is the strongest one. He is use to giving orders and taking charge. By arranging to send his son off to boarding school before telling his wife he was making the arrangements shows this. Of course, he turns out to be wrong in sending this too young boy off to school. But by admiting it, he shows he is human, as his wife wished he would be. Actually Henry was wise beyond his years when he took the bus schedule out of his mothers purse. And saving his money too, for the bus.Could an eight year old actually make all those plans? Who did I like the best? Alexa and Henry. Who did you like the best and why? Your choice of the strongest character? Shirley

As I had stated earlier, I read this book when it first came out, and am having to skim back over it. Appropriate name? Yes, I think so, for apparently in this local, things of importance seemed to be planned for the month of September; strongest character? I haven't really determined that yet, but agree with another thzt perhaps Violet might be; and third, who do I like best? Well, at the end of July, I feel for Henry for he is being sent awaqy, for Edie for it seems her life style is going to be changed because of her cousin, Lottie and for Archie, not able to make love to his wife....

How interesting! I am enjoying the feedback, and am rethinking some of my first impressions.

I still have to say that I find Violet the strongest, as she accepts the ups and downs of the family, and still participates in all the family functions in her effort to hold it together. Her own personal history was not glamorous, but she found a love so strong that it is still felt throughout the family and the story. Then again, Archie is terribly strong; Isobel- a pillar of strength in her effort to hold her family together; Henry, in his ability to cope with his father; Edie in her steadfast calm and support of Violet and Henry, etc. etc. Each and every character, except Lucilla, Jeff and Noel, were exceptionally strong in their own way. I think it would take that kind of strength and endurance to cope with the climate and the country.

My favorite has to be Alexa. She is so simple yet so complex in her acceptance of the affair with Noel, acceptance of Virginia, etc. Then again, they were all very likeable, except Pandora. I developed a strong dislike of her from the beginning, and it was appropriate that she was not a physical part of the family for all those years. She is so self-centered and selfish, she could not have coped with the hardships of the lifestyle in Scotland.

I also did not care for Edmund. I felt that he came in a close second to Pandora in his self-obsession and single minded pursiut of his desires. His treatment of Henry was really cold,even though this was common for children in England and Scotland at that time. It was a surprise to me that Virginia would marry him, much less stay with him, when she could have had a much fuller life. It was almost too coincidental to have "The Sad American" show up. What did you think of that? What did you think of Noel? So many wonderful characters in this story, it is hard to concentrate on one or two!!!!!

Carole

Seriously thinking about this story, isn't Pandora the basis of it? What kind of a story would it be without her? I have different feelings about her because I have a daughter who has cut off almost contact with our family and we don't know why.Pandora admits she was too weak to handle her errors. As good as the story and characters are, I still remind myself that they all serve a purpose in the story. Right? Would like to comment on the words used. This is a Scotish author and of course she uses words familiar to herself. I have an Australian e-mail penpal who was born and raised in Scotland and have asked her to explain a few things from the story. I also realized that the words (aren't we all descended from England- our language, that is?) must be in the dictionary. At one of the Sunday dinners, they had "fool" for dessert! Now what is that? So glad I finally replaced the dictionary that went to college a number of years ago. Some words can be figured out such as carrier bags and my favorite, toes up.Any comments on these thoughts? Thanks, Shirley

Most recipes that I have for a "fool" include: a cooked puree of fruit with appropriate spices or wine, sometimes stirred into a custard and the whole combination folded into heavy whipped cream. This is spooned into individual glasses and served chilled. The matinee jacket for the baby is described by someone in our arts a crafts forum as a baby saque or as I would call a short kimono. Wouldn't it be lovely to be able to download the sound that the curlew makes? Had to look up perfidy.

I notice the tensions hinted at between the characters start rising, wheezing, spiting out all over after, the steps to Pandora's Majorca house are described. In my Encyclopedia of Trad. Symbols, steps symbolize grades in the hierarchical world and communication between these grades or levels.

And Lottie, she works as the perfect "fool". The lowest place in a court and the extreme opposite of the king, who symbolizes law and order. The fool is frequently the scapegoat and symbolizes chaos, can say or do what he pleases and represents unregenerate man going blindly to his downfall. If Lottie does represent the fool does that make Vi, described as a wise old lady, the king? Violet surely is in the September of her life.

Soon into the book I saw the descriptions of countryside and interiors not only describe time and place but often, is humanized. Every character not only is placed on this background and therefore, describes better their character but also, relates to the surrounding as if the countryside is another character. I've started to highlight description of countryside, houses and rooms and need to go back and highlight these passages in the early chapters. So far my impression is, the background is as important to the story as the speaking characters. For me that makes this whole like a tapestry. Something like a picture in which an object is not placed on a background but, that the background and the object have the same importance. This is truley a lovely read and I agree it ought to be among books of serious fiction.

Barbara, thank you for the definition of "fool". I had looked it up but didn't know that wine could be added or that it was in heavy cream. If they didn't serve wine at noon, do you think it was in the dessert? Thanks also for "kimona". I couldn't think of that word when I read it in the other discussion. I enjoyed the descriptions of the counrtyside but didn't realize the rooms were also being described. It all sets the stage for whatever will happen. I don't remember much from English/Lit in school as to how to understand what an author is telling us so I really read for the enjoyment. It helps to read what others have to say about a story. It is interesting how we all have different viewpoints about the characters. Talk to all of you later. Shirley

Rosamunde Pilcher has a talent for fully-rounded individual characters and gives enough information that we can pretty much know where each 'is coming from'. Barbara, you mentioned the background -- the countryside and houses -- as being a part of the story, the "whole like a tapestry". This seems to sum up her talent well.

SHIRLEY....Here I am, you provoked my interest.

I don't know that I've the wherewithal to add any stimulating input into your discussion as I've not read the book. Was she trying to write authenically Scottish, or just in a general British vein, as in the use of her words.? Up till now I haven't recognised anything that's authentically Scottish.

You mentioned stumps Shirley to me prior. 'Stumps' as in cricket ..is more English.

When you first asked me, my initial thought was "What!!! Cricket in SCOTLAND!!!!! MMMM, this sounds high-brow." My hubby concurs. It was not a game you'd expect to see being played as regularly as you'd expect to see it in England. Not a normal "scene" in every day life in Scotland.

So how did I know how to answer you about stumps. Well......cricket is not considered an upper-crust game here in Australia. No class distinction(hooray). I first learned about cricket terms here in Australia.

"fool" pudding (dessert).......not familiar to this Scottish ear. Sounds English though????

Perfidy.....I understood, but not as a word uniquely Scottish....so why did I know......agh, yes.....I bought an instrumental rock record in the 60's in Scotland, by the Ventures from Seattle, a classic, and a favourite of mines....it was called "Perfidia". (Latin).

CORRECTION....I realise it is not being suggested that perfidy or any other word up for discussion might be Scottish.

Cheers.

I cannot believe it - look what I found - a web page from the UK for Rosamunde Pilcher! http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Parc/3567

Thanks for the web site on Rosamunde Pilcher's books. It looks like a good place to spend some time.

From her writing, I get the impression that Scotland has some raw weather and is far from the bright lights, yet it is a place to live. This is not expressing it very well, but I can't think how to do it better.

It would be nice to have people from Scotland, and Ireland and England, participate in our discussions. Many of the books we read are English rather than US authors. And Pauline from Australia, hope to hear more from you.

HI EVERYONE...Och Aye!!! "raw weather indeed"....ha ha ha! I'm not laughing at the choice of words, hardly, but at the MEMORIES. I found the following words re Scotland's coastline:-

"Scotland's edge is only here and there rounded off and soft with sand. Mostly, it is an abrupt off-cutting of land in rearing cliffs, with the shelving shore a jumble of broken rock, hidden at high tides. In the seas around is a scattering of almost eight hundred islands - some merely vicious little points that mark the summits of hidden reefs, and all stretching the country's boundaries northwards towards the Arctic Circle and far westwards into the Atlantic. These are the regions the earliest geographers called Ultima Thule - the northmost places in the inhabited world, they thought - and round the islands swirl and buffet ocean and sea waters, creating some of the most dangerous tide races and sea storms on earth.

Since unrecorded time, ships coming to battle or to trade have braved these seas, and the Scots, that hardy mix of Celt and Viking, developed a special relationship with the sea. It was their only route to the world beyond, bypassing their 'auld enemy'(i.e. England) to the south."

I am in the process of thumbing through this book and finding it very entertaining. I find myself not skipping great portions of it. When does the discussion start? For some reason, I thought it had. I guess someone must have been giving their opinion on the over-all book.

It's been awhile since I have read "September"...over 8 years, in fact, but I have never forgotten it. Really sticks with you, just like "The Shell Seekers". I've read all the comments here and it has been interesting to see which characters have impressed other readers. I will NEVER forget Pandora. When the discussion is over I will tell you why. Keep reading and ENJOY!

WOW! I am overwhelmed by the responses in this discussion! I disappear for a week, and come back to pages and pages of comments. How fabulous. Welcome to you all, and I hope you will continue to share your comments with us.

I have learned so much just sitting here reading all the posts. I also wondered what "fool" was, and it doesn't sound too horrible. I am not a huge fan of traditional English cooking, though. I am interested to hear Pauline say that most of the references throughout the book appear to be English rather than Scot. The blurb in the back of the book states that Ms. Pilcher lives in Scotland, but most of her other books are set in England. Maybe she hasn't fully transplanted yet.

The above description of Scotland by Pauline is right on the money. This is exactly the impression I got from the book,and from a recent visit. It is true, as Barbara pointed out, that the characters were always portrayed in settings that spoke volumes about them. I am thinking of a scene where Edward is driving back to Corriehill, the description of the passing countryside was bleak and dreary, and that is just exactly how he felt. The very ruggedness of the land imbued the strength to all the characters in different ways, even little Henry.

Barbara, the book of symbols you referenced is really cool. I will depend on you to help me with this, as I, like Shirley, didn't concentrate too much on that in Eng. Lit. It is amazing though, how it opens the door to another level of the story.

Betty, we are deep in the discussion of this book, and hope you will join us. Go back to the beginning and catch up on all the threads, as this is one of the best discussions we have had. I am picking up on the fact that my Pandora is striking a bell with two of you. My heart goes out to you Shirley, as I know it would be very hard for me to lost touch with my daughter. I am curious if this has happened to Katie?

OK, more food for thought = did you think that Virginia truly had reason to have an affair? What was your reaction to Archie's miraculous recovery?

My favorite person is still Violet. She was so caring, understanding and strong, that I felt that I would like to have her around to turn to. Do you think that Violet was Rosamund herself, or perhaps modeled on her own Mother? She certainly was the embodiment of the universal Grand Mother.

Off the topic a little here - I have just finished "The Saxon Shore" by John Whyte,and he throws out a fact that I am still researching to see if it is true. He states that the Celts that settled Scotland originated in Ireland, and moved to "Caldonia" when population pressures grew too strong. They supposedly displaced the Picts in this move. Hmmmmmmm - & what happened to the Picts??? That tie with Ireland was a surprise to me. Anyway - - - it doesn't affect this story at all, just the quote that Pauline shared set me to thinking.

Boy, I can't wait to check back in - so much is happening here. See you all in a few days!

Barbara, thanks so much for the website. I just had to go there for a few minutes and I will return. It was a delight for me to see her publisher (?) was named Curtis as that is my maiden name and I always liked it. If we had had a son, that would have been his name. Pauline, my uncle said we had Scottish heritage so that must be where I get my endurance for the weather of northern USA. Family history says we came from Isle of Man and when in this country, they settled in Maine and were sea captains. The love of the sea must have been born in Scotland. Back to the book - must think about your new questions. Good to have you back, Carole. Where were you? Shirley

Referring to Edward 'feeling' bleak and dreary like the countryside around him, perhaps he could've also 'looked' the same way and in turn classified as your typical "dour" Scotsman.

CAROLE - Re Picts check out:-

Celtic and Medieval Histories

Wow! Great Pauline - don't you just love researching this stuff. I wonder if youngsters have this much fun is school these days with computer access? Although, I think the difference is we can learn what interests us or peaks our interest rather then "having" to abide by a state defined curriculum.

I went to the Pilcher web site and wrote in the Guest Book something that may bear repeating here. Two years ago for Christmas my son gave me, at my suggestion of course, a coffee table book, "The World of Rosamunde Pilcher". It is just beautiful...pictures and text of her world, literally, both past and present, with some quotes from her books. Read it in the bookstore, if nothing else. I cherish my copy.

Hi Barbara...glad to meet you too. Yes, I agree! This is a wonderful time of life, who'd have believed it 30 years ago we'd all be right where we are now. I'm about to do what I should've done BEFORE entering this discussion....to get the books in question at the library. Which was impossible for me to do without transport and until now. Cheers everyone, happy reading.

Sometimes when reading a book, I used to think it would have been great to be in college and have that book under discussion. Now we do it here, on the Net. The best of two worlds!

Loma: go look here: Loma

Ginny

Hi,

I just finished reading The Shell Seekers and then started September. I then realized I had already read September and therefore just skimmed it. What I found interesting about September was how likeable Noel became inasmuch as he seemed to be a lazy, selfish, son in The Shell Seekers. Perhaps he matured after meeting the lovely Alexa. Alexa seemed to be "every man's dream girl"--kind, non-demanding, excellent cook, a unsullied virgin--I am glad that Noel matured enough to decide to marry her! I liked September, but I loved The Shell Seekers--I just thought that Penelope Stern Keeling was one exceptional gal!

Phyllis, now you have me wanting to read The Shell Seekers. I don't think I read it, but saw the movie. Now, like you, I went skimming through September, since I had read it some time ago.

Back to Caroles' questions. Did Virginia truly have reason for an affair? Absolutely not. She might have thought she did and others might think so too, but I do not believe in adultery. Never. Now, as part of the story, well, her husband was a real stinker.Did he really and truly HAVE to go to New York then? He could have missed the dance or what? He said no one else could handle the problem. Was he trying to get out of an unplesant situation of taking his son to school? Now Archie needed someone understanding to discuss his problem with. If that is what kept him from loving his wife, the stranger was a good excuse. Love in a sexual sense can take many forms and many women would be satisfied with kisses, caresses, and being held. I didn't realize Noel was the son in Shell Seekers as I read it so long ago. Guess I'll have to reread it before I get the books Santa will bring me. So many books and so little time. Shirley

Just checking in after a LOOOOONG day at the store. I am so surprised to learn that the Shell Seekers is part of the same story. Is anyone interested in haveing this as the next book, or am I putting the horse after the cart???

I will read the posts in depth tomorrow and join this EXCELLENT discussion.

Carole.

Shirley - to answer you previous question of "where were you", it is a long story. I took early retirement from my company so that I would have more leisure time to enjoy my various and assorted book clubs, etc. I took a part time position at Barnes & Noble ( where I host two book clubs) and it grew into full time - 35 to 40 hours a week. I am also being trained to take over all the book clubs at this location, and help with the author signings, events etc. Meanwhile, my city library contacted me and asked me to start some book clubs for the local branch. To top it all off, I am seeing the other side of Christmas shopping, and I am already bone weary!!!!!

Needless to say, I have less time than when I took early retirement, but I am trying to stay in touch with this group, because you all are the most interesting and the most thought provoking. My other clubs meet once a month and we talk for about two hours. Here we talk all month and the discussions are much more in depth and much more enlightening.

Pauline, thanks for the web site link. I have bookmarked it for future reading. Wow, are you up on this or what???

See you tomorrow, everyone!!!!!!

Carole

Carole, how do you ever find time to read and/or conduct book club discussions? Are you a fast reader? I have some friends that will read a book overnight, and I wonder if they are really reading or just skimming the surface.

Our Carole!! Leader of many book clubs and Leader of Men, but one notices she likes OURS best cause WE are more in depth!!

Carole, are you telling them about us??

YAY!!

Carole has always been busy, burns candle at both ends, makes me ashamed of sloth.

Ginny

Carole,thank you for your answer as to where you were. I didn't mean to get personal, but I hoped you had been on a trip somewhere and would tell us briefly about it. You really are a busy person but I bet you love it. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. Shirley

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!

I can't help comparing this day to the gathering of the clan in our book. Oh how I wish our Thanksgiving was in September - then we could avoid the madness of the day after Thanksgiving.

I am fortunate enough to have all of my family within driving distance this year, and thereforem,we are all gathering at my daughter's house. Isn't it truly wonderful when they grow up and help take on the family responsibilities? My sons have very lovely and caring wives, so we all mesh beautifully. I have SO much to be thankful for.

Shirley - you didn't ask anything personal at all. I am bothered by the fact that I don't have more time - but most of all, I wish I had taken a wonderful trip. I think I have forgotten how to take time off just for fun.

Ginny - you are the one who holds this whole thing together, - up at the crack of dawn checking in on all the groups, the whole SeniorNet. Everywhere I go, there you are, giving advice, helping others. You are really someone to be thankful for.

Have a great holiday everyone, and I will try to survive the "after Thanksgiving Shopping Madness" and check in with you on Sunday.

Carole

Well, I feel like Violet after her birthday party. I survived the day after Thanksgiving!!!!!! It wasn't very bad, and the customers were nice. Of course, book people are nice, which is why I work in a book store.

How was everyone's holiday? Were you able to be with family or are they all spread out? I joined my daughter at her house, and my oldest son joined us also. It was really nice to see her doing all the work!!! I then went to my other son's house and joined his family in dessert. What a wonderful day. I had dreamed of this ever since they were small, and finally got to do it. I hope to do the same at Christmas. It really is great to have the whole burden of the holiday off my shoulders, and have it shared by all.

I have started to read Maeve Binchy's "Circle of Friends" and was wondering if anyone would be interested in reading this as our next book. I have not read any of her works, but they are highly praised and I thought they would be as good for discussion as Rosamund Pilcher. Oh, speaking of Mrs. Pilcher, she has has a beautiful Christmas book out. I have not had time to browse through it, but as she lives in Scotland, I thought it might have some pictures that would relate to our book. If you get a chance, check it out on the internet or in the store and give us your impressions. It looks wonderful.

We are having fun in our store - we have chosen the book "Siblings" as our recommended book for the holiday. It is a wonderful book by Anna Quindlan and we all have shirts with our siblings on them. It makes the holiday a lot more fun.

I hope you all will share with us your holiday traditions and let us share with you.

Bye for now.

Carole

Carole, what a nice thing to say, and your description of your Thanksgiving sounds great!

We had a good one, too, I love Thanksgiving, everyone comes here, my sons, my Mother, and we have a great time. It was a great day!!

I really enjoy cooking on Thanksgiving and Christmas, but not every day of the year. Of course, one would not eat like THAT every day of the year. Am going to try one new dish at each of those holidays from now on. I really like Helen's Brie en Croute recipe she gave in the Book Club Online and think I'll make it for the Tree Trimming!

I HAVE that book!! Maeve Benchy's Circle of Friends !! Have not read one of hers, think you've got a great group here, will be interested to see what everyone wants to read next with our LEADER PAR EXCELLENCE, Carole Davis!!

Ginny

Carole Every year, I seem to be amazed as this season of gratitude and memeories decends too quickly but, with such satisfaction. I wonder how many celebrate the feast of St. Nickolas on December 6? For more generations then I could count, including our non-german daughter-in-laws, we write our notes to Santa, leave them on December 5 and on the 6th there is always; a new Christmas Book as well as, the books from the past going back now 50 years(the books are devided up among the new generation), and the boxes of lights and decorations.

A personal note. I feel anti-climatic about our discussion with September


1. I really appreciate, as the holidays approach, there is less time for pulling apart a story and then writing down our thoughts.
2. I accept completly that everyone has a different joy when reading and is affected differently by a story.

Some of us look at a cast of characters as though a bus load of potential friends. The words and actions of each character are queues as to if the character could be a friend.
For me the characters are almost like chessmen, illuminating and building toward checkmate. For me the checkmate is a new insight to life or myself. As a result I have picked up September again and, I am going thru chapter by chapter noting the interaction each character has with the others, paying particular attention to the final changes in their lives. As September is the beginning of a seasonal change, I think that is symbolic of the characters experiencing change.
I need a few days and then I would like to share here what I find. Hopefully someone will feel OK with giving me some feedback. Who knows, we may even start talking all at once again.
And yes, I love Maeve Binchy's work. Since Circle of Friends was a recent movie, would another one of her many books do?

'Morning. My Thanksgiving was a very good one. All of my family were here at my house except my son-in-law who had to work. He's the house drummer at the Ritz Carlton, Buckhead. The rest of us had a great time. Christmas will be my two sons and theirs for daughter cannot come back then.

I am ready to proceed with "September." Does it start tomorrow, on the first? I also have "Circle of Friends" and will be glad to enter into the discussion. As I remember, it was not one of my favorite books of Benchy, but I'll join in,regardless.

I'm ready!!

Betty Allen, I believe this descussion started the 1st of October. If you scroll back using the "Previous Message" button or start from the beginning with "First Message", you can read what everyone's thoughts were. We were going great guns till about 2 weeks ago and then Carole, our discussion leader kept the fire burning and then, just an occasional post from someone else. As my earlier post eludes I feel like we are hanging in mid-air. But, I also want and need to reread in order to add something to this diologue.

Glad you are posting and will be anxious to hear your thoughts.

Hi everyone. Thanksgiving was nice - on Friday for us so youngest daughter could be here. Two of the four girls are close enough for visits. After many took a walk to the park, I had a tea party with my little grandchildren with help from the 21 year old gdau. Several years ago, Barbara Bush said that "Cirle of Friends" was the best book she had ever read, so I had to read it too. Can't say that I agreed with her or did I miss something? Barbara, I am learning from your comments & look forward to reading your post after you have reread the book. Betty, I checked the time of your posts and you are a fast reader. Wow.in one day. Yes, let's get this discussion back on track.Shirley

Hello, everyone. I had read September several months ago, and do not remember all of it that well. It is well written, the author always has well-developed people. One thought keeps lingering, why did Pandora pick that way to die? Or that time?

When does this discussion start?

I think they did some last month. Am looking forward to hearing your views!

I think I must have missed out completely. I have written two messages, but did not "send" them but they disappear. First, I was not aware we were discussing the book, for at the top, it said we would do so soon. I dare not look back at the outline for fear I will lose what I have written this time:

I thought Alexa did not seem to be an appealing person, though she could entertain and fix great meals, and I felt like perhaps this was the way to Noel's stomach. Personally, I cannot imagine sleeping with someone you do not care about, and even at the end, it was not my impression that Noel actually knew he lovcd Alexa enough to marry. I felt sorry for Henry being sent to school at such a young age. He did not seem to get the love and affection he needed at home and therefore, he went to visit Edie.

What a shame Edie felt she had to take in this cousin. It was clear the cousin was batty, yet she tried not to see that. If Edmund had not been such a stuffy fellow, he and Virginia would have had a better marriage, and Pandora was apparently quite the one to be put on a pedestal. She was lucky she married into money to aid her in living the lifestyle she craved. I liked Violet so much and was surprised at the size of her body as described over in the book. I would not have thought her to be "bulky."

Lucilla was certainly a care-free young woman; Jeff likewise (care-free, not woman!!), Isobel and Archie a very likeble couple; Verena a person wanting to put on a show, with the great help of others,

I'm going back to the outline now, but shall post this so it won't go flying away with Lottie.

Barbara, thanks so much for calling my attention to the fact that the discussion had started. So, now I have ripped through the thing entirely. I am lost, so will wait until the next discussion and try to be more attentive. I kept seeing that "discussion to start soon" at the top of the page and thought the comments were just that, comments. Oh well, win some, lose some.

Betty you are doing great - Please do not disappear on us - I think the holidays have slowed our computer time and we are slower sharing. I'm still sorting thru these characters and for me many of them are shadows of or combinations of charecteristics of legendary literary characters. I agree with you - poor Henry - yet when all was said and done it appears Henry is what holds that family together. Dad seems to be an example of the sin of ommission and Mom is the sin of commission.

I researched Pandora as in the Greek myths (Pandora's box), it just didn't fit and then, bingo with our author living in Scotland and her childhood in Cornwall the Arthur Stories. Of Course Pandora had to die in the lake, she seems to fit the combination of the Lady in the Lake and the Lady Shalott. The Lady Shalott loves Lancelot and her love was not returned so she orders her dead body be floated down the river (with a note declairing her love and that part Pandora does not do although, the story hints at that being the underlying cause of her unhappiness). Arthur as he lay dying orders his sword to be thrown in the lake where it is caught by the Lady of the Lake. The Lady of the Lake in various versions of the Arthur stories is Arthur's foster mother. Well it seems to me when Archie comes out of his darkness he is finally thowing the sword away. His darkness was his being overwhelmed by his part in the war and Pandora's nurturing attention helps him see another source of income as well as her present of dress pants etc. helps him see himself as attractive man again. In effect the death of his darkness. His holeing up in the basement was not the same light room with a view that Isobel choice.

And Isobel seemed to me to play the perfect "Martha" to Pandora's "Mary" She was always cooking or sewing or helping someone.

Betty is absolutely right, so sorry, the heading slipped by me, we hope to get a little more organized in the very near future!!

I love the "Lady of Shallott" poem, it's one of my all time favorites!

Will go find pieces of it, thanks so much Barbara for that neat background info.

In the poem, the Lady lives in a castle, and only looks at the real world thru the reflections in a mirror. One day she sees her knight glittering on his way to Camelot, and turns and looks full at him. And that's her undoing.

Something like:

"Out flew the web and opened wide
The mirror cracked from side to side
'The curse has come upon me!' cried
The Lady of Shallott."

That's from memory and may not be perfect. It's amazing how some supposedly light reading books refer to some very important old myths and legends, and you end up learning a heck of a lot!! Especially in our groups.

Ginny

I finished SEPTEMBER last week. How interesting to compare parts of it to The Lady of Shallott. It is one of my "all time favorites" too. I came upon this discussion half way through November--I had read The Shell Seekers so long ago and thought I would read September too. The only copy I could get was a large-print edition. I assume it is not abridged (it didn`t say anything about it either way). Anyhow, as I read your comments, I feel as if I missed something about the ending--Does anyone know--is a large-print edition abridged?

Barbara, what insight. I never learned to relate stories together like that. It all makes sense the way you put it. Thanks. Has anyone noticed that on one answered Caroles' second set of questions? Perhaps the holidays are taking most of our time. Do hope there will be more comments made. I look in here every time I'm in SR.Net.Shirley

Hello again - I am so sorry that I am unable to be here more often. As I have said before, I did not realize that my post-retirement job would take up so much time. I really do not feel retired.

I am absolutely overwhelmed with the insights that you have all come up with. The comparison to the classics is awesome, and I feel that you are 100% right. Actually, I am discovering that most of our favorite stories,films, TV stories, etc, all follow the Arthurian legends. It must be a necessary part of our psyche, or a mandatory part of our cultural assimilation. HMMMMMM, very interesting.

I, too, am having second thoughts about "Circle of Friends". I feel like I have to work to finish it, but it certainly is full of ideas for discussion.

If I survive Christmas in retail, I will promise to be more active in future discussions, but I need your help. Please share some ideas for a discussion that we can start in January.

Thanks for keeping this so interesting, everyone. This is the best discussion we have ever had.

Carole

I read "Circle of Friends" some time ago and remember that I did not particularly care for it. I am presently reading a book by Anne Tyler named "Saint Maybe." It is so-so.

May, that's a good question about books being abridged, in general. Those large print editions are SOOOOOOO big, some of them, and I've never had both editions to compare!

And if they ARE abridged, what's left out? Not everybody is as careful a reader as you are, wonder if anybody else noticed missing things?

Ginny

Astonishing as it may seem our dear sweat Henry grows and adapts some of Edmunds ways. (I do not see Henry a rebel do you? He proves he is as strong and capable as his father at such an early age.) And as Edmund could never imagine being wrong or allowing others to read his feelings, at one time he was a sweat young boy wrapping his arms around both Violet and his father. And so we have made what we have of 1998 and have the sweat youth of 1999 to look forward to. I know the older I get the harder to retain the sweatness but then both Edie and Violet seem to do a good job don't they. Merry Christmas everyone
wishing you sweatness
and the dignity of Violet
in the New Year.

Violet and Edie's sweetness is a lot about being aware of and caring for others, and their lives are such that they can interact a lot. It is interesting how important Edie of the little house is to the ones in the big houses. Barbara, I agree, Henry does not seem to be a rebel.

Rosemary Pilcher creates solid characters and then she has them work out their daily lives. Have we lost something by being more mobile, belonging to more groups, being more fragmented? It that why we like her stories, because they have such a 'core'?

I picked up the book, The World of Rosanne Pilcher for a good price the other day at a bookstore. It has interesting evocative photographs together with quotes from her books, including September.

I think most of her cvharacters had a sweetness under the layers of civilization. The oldest and youngest are more able to show it to others, but each and every one was caring in their own special way.

I do agree that with society and families fragmented and isolated, we have lost the security and trust that a family or small hometown gives to us. The automobile and telephone were wonderful inventions, but did seem to break the mold. Yet, I also see families trying to pull together more, and the growth of communities, whether on line, in the book clubs at the libraries, in guilds, charity organizations, etc.

I, too, hope that as we approach this holiday, and as we approach a new millenium, we try to gain back the trust in basic human goodness, and that we can all make an effort to be more like Rosamund Pilcher's characters.

Happy holiday to all.

Carole

Oh, Carole, what a good statement you made about approaching the holidays and the new millenium! I'm going to copy it and put in my book The World of Rosamunde Pilcher. Incidentally, sorry, I hadn't noticed mis-writing Rosanne before.
Seasons Greetings to all.

Carol, does this discussion become archieved somewhere? there are a few clickables I love and I have not bookmarked. If this is not archieved can you leave it on till about January 4 please. I return home on the 3rd and I could then bookmark the clickables. Of course I came away neglecting to copy down my password to my server.

Barbara, When this discussion is finished then it will be moved to the Books and Literature Archives so no need to worry.

Larry

Are you all thinking of a new selection to read?

Did somebody mention a Maeve Benchy?

Ginny

Thank you whew that is a nice present.

A new book? Maeve Benchy? Not my favorite but ok. Would Anne Rivers Siddons qualify? Or Belva Plain? Why don't you pick a book and we can all agree? Happy New Year. Shirley

Love Belva Plain's stories - other groups offer a selection and then everyone votes till one is finally chosen - I like that idea
or maybe Carol you give us 3 or 4 choices to vote on.

Another group of stories I like is "Ms. Read" forgot the author but, will find it when I return home on Sunday - every year I must read Ms. Read and the Christmas Mouse.
And of course, as everyone else is mentioning Maeve Binchy. She has written so many - the Lilac Bus and is it October that is one of hers? I still have not read Pilcher's Coming Home so there is another one.

OK Troops. I will return with a list to choose from. I have read one of Anne Rivers Siddons, and loved it. I am fighting my way through Maeve Benchy's Circle of Friends, and finding it slow going, although good. I have never read Belva Plain but am willing.

We read Coming Home here a while ago and it was wonderful.

Here is the preliminary list, but no titles yet.

1) Siddons 2) Plain 3) Benchy 4) Pilcher

Now I need some ideas.

See you later!

Carole

Well, as to our next book, I would really appreciate some nominations. I researched a little bit and here are some ideas.

1) Belva Plain - Homecoming 2) Anne River Siddons - Colony 3) Mave Binchy - Circle of Friends 4) Rosamunde Pilcher - Shell Seekers Please, Please Please give us your imput so that we can get a discussion going soon. Let's shoot for the 15th, ok?

Thanks, all,

Carole

Carole, all your choices seem good. The Shell Seekers was even read and liked by my son when he was aboard ship in the Navy. Right now I am reading Belva Plain's Eden Burning which is good so far; it seems to require rather leisurely and thoughtful reading. It is an old paperback.

I wonder if authors realize how important paperbacks are -- they are the ones that get recirculated at such things as garage sales, and often are the ones that enable readers to read a number of each author's books.

I'll vote for Siddons' Colony this time, but will go with any that is selected.

Happy New Year. May the oncoming year bring to all of us more adventures and enrichment with books!

Happy New Year everyone. Have read all but Homecoming. Will start Belva Plains Random Winds tomorrow and have two more of hers waiting. Went to the Book Cellar at the downtown library and got four more books to read. Colony was a very good book with a lot going on. It was my introduction to Anne Rivers Siddons and would love to reread it. Of course I gave the book away so will have to find another copy. No problem. I liked Shell Seekers too but found Circle of Friends wanting. Shirley

Happy New Year everyone. Thanks for your good wishes Loma! I agree with you Shirley, Circle of Friends is BORING!!!!! I am going to give up on it.

Well, so far we have:

Belva Plain - - - - - Homecoming - - -2

Anne Rivers Siddons - Colony - - -- - 3

Rosamund Pilcher - - -Shell Seekers - 2

We are open for more nominations, and/or votes on the above. I personally like all three, and am ready to get going. I hope that by the end of next week, all our friends will be back with us and we can get started.

If you have trouble finding these books at your library, check out your local used book stores. We have one called Half-Priced books that has huge quantities of books. It is hard to sift through them all to find a book, but I am sure we can. Also, Like Loma says, garage sales, library book sales, etc. I love Shirley's Book Celler. We don't have that at our library.

See you soon - let's get the word out that we are nominating and voting.

Carole

I'll vote for 'Homecoming' Belva Plain - have never read Siddons and would be interested as a 2nd choice

Thanks, Barbara. That makes 3 for Belva Plain Homecoming and 3 for Anne Rivers Siddons. We'll give this a few more days, and then we'll start reading. How about we close this vote on the 8th, and start talking soon thereafter?

Thanks all,

Carole

S0rry, Carole, but I just got here. "Ladder of Years" by Anne Tyler is a fine book which I'd like to nominate. A perfectly ordinary Baltimore house wife is on vacation with her husband and children at the seashore. One day, feeling unappreciated by her family, she takes a long walk vy the sea and keeps right on going, clad only in her bahing suit. I'd like to ominate this book 'cause, boy, have we all been there! Cheers, }Carol

I like Belva Plains and read her last book as she is retiring now. It was a tear jerker in the first pages and wouldn't dare take it with me as never knew when I'd start crying. ha ha Read Circle of Friends but forget what it was about and will have to refresh my memory and get it again from the Library if I participate here.

Carol, Ladder of Years sounds good and have never read an Anne Tyler book. I'm always open to reading a new Author (to me).

Today, just started "The Jewels of Tessa Kent" by Judith Krantz, another favorite author of mine. Due to the weather, not sure if I'll join you for a book in January. I'm in the Midwest and as you know we are having bad weather right now.

I do favor Romance books.

Just finished "Bag of Bones" by Stephen King which was a Christmas gift.

Vicki: How WAS Bag of Bones, ? Should I wait for paperback?

Ginny

Carol, thanks for the nomination. I haven't heard of Anne Tyler either, but that sure sound like a good book. I know that I have been there many times, but thankfully, I always come out smiling!

Thanks for your input, Vicki. I have totally given up on Circle of Friends, and am not even putting it on the list.

Here is where we stand:

Belva Plain's "Homecoming" - - - - 4

Anne Rivers Siddons' "Colony"- - - 3

Rosamund Pilcher's "Shell Seekers"-2

Anne Tyler's "Ladder of Years"- - -1

I hope you can dig out of the snow and join us Vicki. I have just started reading Judith Krentz in her present day form (rather than her Amanda Quick or Jayne Castle form) and I like her in all three personas. I love the futuristic Jayne Castle books, "Orchid", "Zinnia" and "Amaryllis", and her Regency romances as Amanda Quick are wonderful. She is truly talented.

I got the "Bag of Bones" book for my daughter for her birthday, and I think I will sneak a peak at it before I give it to her. I saw Stephen King on a talk show and he said that he tried to write like Daphne Du Maurier's Rebecca. Was the book like that? If so, I might even get my own copy, as I LOVED Rebecca.

My Daughter-in Law gave me a Danielle Steele book for Christmas, and I do not seem to be able to get into it. It is called "Jewels" and it reads like a Soap Opera. I am definitely now a fan of hers.

Just a few more days, and we will tally the final vote. I work Friday and Saturday, so I won't be able to get back to you all until Sunday, so let's make the 10th our cut off date - ok?

See you soon,

Carole

Carole, switch my vote to Homecoming please. Haven't read it yet and as we all know, with so many books to read, why reread.Belva Plain is a good author. I too like Stephen King but sorta gave up with his choice of words and long drawnout stories. The Stand was my favorite. As to the other books on the list, maybe after we do the next one. Anne Tyler is new to me too. Shirley

I vote for Ladder or Homecoming. Is Homecoming about a widower and a nun? I read so much at times that I get mixed up on the books.

Shirley, The Stand was a very good book but don't usually read Stephen King books. I seem to get bored by his books and find them to long.

Ginny, if you are a fan of Stephen King then you may like this book.

I also vote for " Ladder of Years ".

Just wanted to take a quick peek before going to work. I think it looks like "Homecoming" for the next book. I would like to seriously consider "Ladder of Years" for the following book, though.

I have two book clubs to oversee tonight, as last weeks was postponed. I will try to check with you on Sunday (before I go to 2nd Sunday Book Club. I am seriously rethinking my position with Barnes & Noble!!!!!!!

Bye for now,

Carole

I also vote for " Ladder of Years ".

Carol, I also vote for Ladder of Years.

Carol, when you make your final decisions on the next book or books, please e-mail me and I will create the new discussions for you.

Larry

Hello Everybody, Discovered this folder through a bit of accidental browsing. I'm host of the Author's Corner and usually only visit a couple of other writing folders, plus the New Zealand and Australian folders. But they all kind of slowed down over the Christmas break so I went lurking and found this one. And would like to tell you about Piers Paul Reid. Have read three of his books and want to read everyone he has ever written if I can. Started with *A Married Man* then *The Third Day* followed by *The Free Frenchman*. To say that his stories are interesting and compelling would be putting it mildly. Plus thought provoking. And definitely worth your consideration.

Have now added this folder to my Bookmarks, but wonder if I am in order in saying the above. Realize belatedly that I should be voting for a book, not nominating. Sorry if that is so, but I'm learning, albeit slowly.

Betty

Betty, are you from New Zealand? Welcome. We need world-wide people here. Our city library has the 3 novels you named by Piers Paul Read, and 6 more books beside, some being non-fiction. It is always good to get recommendations.

By the way, I love your using the word 'albeit'. My mother always used it, quite naturally. I never could. I worked with a lady who loved the word 'ergo', but she never could use it naturally either.

We will look forward to your input.

Welcome, Betty. Thanks for your nominations, they sound very interesting, and I am putting them in my suggestion folder. It looks like the finalist for the next book is Belva Plain's Homecoming. I would like to put "Ladder of Years" down for the book after this, if everyone is in favor. I would like to try to get a book ahead on our voting so that we can get the next book and read it before the discussion starts. Therefore, let's all get our thoughts together for the book after Homecoming. So far, we have three nominations for "Ladder of Years" and one nomination for a book by Piers Paul Reid. Give this some thought, and meanwhile, let's all get reading Belva Plain's book so we can start discussing it soon. I would like to get up an running on this about the 17th, if everyone can obtain the book.

Let me know if this is too soon, and if so, when would you like to start?

See you later,

Carole

P.S. How do you pronounce albeit. Is is all-be-it, all-beet or all-bay-it? I love the word but am afraid to use it. There are so many words that I read, understand and am unsure of how to say them without sounding stilted.

Carole, That sounds great to me! Don't if I can lay hands on the book that soon but no prob. I'll catch up. Cheers, Carol

Belva Plain's Homecoming to start about the 17th? Looking through our city library catalog, I am surprised at how many books Belva Plain has written.

Albeit is pronounced with 3 syllables, something like all-be-it, said smoothly.

Betty Fry, I read through some of your link given, your biography and a couple of the essays. I really like your way! Please come here often and visit with everybody.

Hey, everyone- Larry Hanna has put our new home up and we are going to be up and running on the 17th. Carol, I don't have the book yet either, so I think I will be posting chapter by chapter. I have Jury Duty tomorrow, and I am going to the library tonight to try to get the book. I can sit in the Jury Room and read, read, read!!!

The synopsis sounds very exciting - I am looking forward to this!

See you all soon in our new home!

Carole

Thank you for your welcome Loma and Carole . Yes I am now living in New Zealand, came here in 1986 from England on a Polish Container ship. Wonderful journey.

Nice of you to take a look at the Nitelinks site and glad you liked what you saw of my writing. What about my book ? Did you take a look at that too ? It offers two chapters for free. If you want more after that, you have to buy the whole book .

Is there any chance of an electronic book (like mine) being considered for discussion ?

Intend to get Belva Plain's Homecoming next time I am in town. How do we go about discussing it ? In this folder as is, or in a different format ?

Nice to meet you all. Good to be here .

Betty

I just sent a delightful, restful evening watching the movie of "September". What a joy! To sit back and put myself into the hands of the British once again and be i that world for awhile. It was on cable early this morning so I taped it. I read the book some time ago but was too late to join in the dicussion. Oh Where do they get those great British characters? The ones you recognize instantly but never know their names? And the scenery! And the comfort of knowing no gratuitous sp? violence is going to erupt any minute. Poor doomed Pandora! She was gallant.

Carol, that is a glowing report you give the movie "September"! I don't know much about searching movies on the internet, but finally found it: 1996; 3 hours; cast: Mariel Hemingway, Jenny Aqutter, Jacqueline Besset, Edward Fox, Judy Parfitt, Michael York. It says it is not on video. Was it 3 hours on TV?

It didn't SEEM like 3 hours, Loma. Of course it never does if you're enjoying yourself. I was interrupted twice, for brief periods only. It was over much too soon as far I was concerned! I sat there in a glow. I wanted it to go on forever! I would say that perhaps it was the mood I was in. but it wasn't. I am ALWAYS in the mood for a well produced, well acted, beautifully filmed, British movie. Actually. I meant character ACTORS. Was horrified to find I'd left the above word out. Loma, this is only my own reaction and not meant in any way as an objective critique. The ballroom scene was delicious. The clothes! The elegance! Better stop now before I write anmentire essay. LOL, Carol

Well, does this seem like the end of this discussion of September? I was rereading the posts as I had to find out what I said about adultry. Yes, it shows up in Homecoming too. Katie Sturtz said she would tell us why she would NEVER forget Pandora when this discussion is over.Are you telling, Katie? Shirley

I am SOOOOOOOO disappointed that the movie "September" is not on video. My strange work hours don't allow me to schedule TV watching.

Yes, Katie, let's hear why you will NEVER forget Pandora. Loma - who played Pandora? Darn, I would have loved to see that movie.

"Homecoming" has a strikingly close similarity to "September", and the characters fall into the same traps that their Scottish cousins(literary only) do.

See you in the new folder.

Carole

Carol, where is the synopsis for the new book? Belva Plain's Homecoming. Went Fri to the Library to get it and their computer showed it was on the shelf but we couldn't find it anywhere. They took my name in case it shows up in the next few days and if not, I can go to the next town's Library as they have four copies on the shelf.

Vicki,

Here is the new discussion: Homecoming

Larry

Goodby Septemeber it was great getting to know all of you - and sounds like most of you are going to the Homecomeing. By the way if any of you looked in on Pilcher's web page - look again - allthe background has changed and a floral print of Lady Di's is now being used. Lovely but, I really liked the small petit wildflower look.

Jacqueline Bisset played Pandora in the TV movie, which I taped, also. It was wonderful!

I hear you're all looking for me! The reason I'll never forget Pandora is very personal, but I don't mind sharing. "September" came out not long before our wonderful oldest son died. When I called an old friend to tell her, she told me she would send me something she thought I'd like. What she sent was a copy of Pandora's suicide letter...the part about the words she wanted read at her funeral. Sue was right; I liked it immensely and used it as the preface to a memorial book I made for Peter. I still read it often, as it gives me solace. I especially like the last two lines..."I am but waiting for you, for an interval, somewhere very near, just around the corner. All is well."

Love...Katie

Thank you Katie for sharing. All will be well. Shirley

SHIRLEY...Thank you! So glad you came before they closed this shop...

Love...Katie