It's his middle name, his full name is William Wilkie Collins (I think), I think. So maybe its a family surname.

I love The Moonstone, one of my all-time favorite books, and look forward to reading this great author with everyone on SeniorNet.

Kleo

I would say The Moonstone is even better than Woman in White, although Collins liked Woman better. If you like one, you will probably like the other. Moonstone is more of a straight detective story, and moves faster than Woman.

I just ordered the book & hope to have it by January 1st. See you all there.

I have the book so will look forward to the discussion.

In October, I read The Thirteenth Tale, which mentioned The Woman in White, a book I had not heard of, but which I was eager to read.

In November, the very next book I read, which I just completed, was The Meaning of Night. According to the author, "The Meaning of Night draws on my long-standing love of the mid-Victorian period, which began when I first read David Copperfield and Great Expectations as a child. For me its fascination lies in the fact that it is both familiar to us, being relatively close in time, but at the same time alien in so many ways. I also wanted to write a novel that tried to emulate the narrative qualities of the great Victorian story-tellers, particularly Wilkie Collins."

This is no coincidence! I can't help but feel that I was meant to read The Woman in White at this point in my life.

I am looking forward to comparing The Woman in White to both The Thirteenth Tale and The Meaning of Night now!

I have The Woman in White in my library bag waiting to be read. A friend and I were in Target today and saw a copy of the Thirteenth Tale. We both both want to read it. She owns a copy of the Woman in White. I invited her to join us in the discussion.

I have my copy of the Woman in White, but haven't started reading yet. Are we expected to have finished the book when the discussion starts in January, or will we have some kind of schedule?

On the subject of other gothic novels, I've read The Monk by Matthew Lewis, which I remember enjoying greatly although most of the details escape me now (I think there was an evil monk, and much horrific suffering by his victims). I also enjoyed Jane Austen's spoof of gothic novels, Northanger Abbey.

Joan asked, "Do you sense that unexplainable coincidences are part of the gothic genre?"

Unexplainable coincidences could definitely fit in with the “exploration of the unknown or supernatural” listed as an element of gothic fiction.

We'll have to see what we find in this example of gothic literature. I am waiting a for a few more weeks before I begin the book so I stay in sync with the group.

Good morning, JoanP and everyone!
Well, I ordered the book! I'll try to participate if I can, as I do love long books! Gothics are not ordinarily my favorites, but this is such a good group of readers, I can't resist joining you!

Joan, I am confused about what you mean by chapters one through nine. My book is divided into epochs (The First Epoch), then into sections with word titles (The Story begun by Walter Hartright, of Clement's Inn, Teacher of Drawing), and then into sections with roman numeral indicators only. The roman numerals start over again in each section that begins with a word title. Are we to read the roman numeraled sections one through nine in The First Epoch with the word title The Story begun by Walter...etc.? That would be about 60 pages of reading for week one.

Give me a long book any day

"The gothic romance is easily recongnized on the book racks: dark cover, fleeing maiden; a house on a hill with a tower light; a storm whipping the waves, the heroine's hair and her cloak. Gothics are very much part of the "had-I-but-known" school of writing, and bring a strong element of suspense to the tale and, often a feeling of supernatural events. A young woman arrives at the kind of house she shouldn't enter and immediately discovers that there are very strange goings-on going on...and the handsome (relative/employer/owner) seems to be at the root of it all. And she is the target of whatever evil is afoot. Of course, nothing supernatural is occuring (though a minor haunting as a subplot can still work), and the danger - which is real - is coming from a different quarter, some enemy of the family, for instance." ~ "Novel Writing"

"In gothic novels the setting is as much a part of the story as are the characters and must, like the characters, be thoroughly delineated. Gothics are "mood pieces," which revolve primarily around the heroline's feeling that she or someone close to her is in jeopardy. Some may contain an element of romance." ~ "How to write romances"

"Gothics are less sensual than historical romances because the emphasis is centered around the implied or real threat of danger to the life of our heroine or someone to whom she is close. The setting is usually remote and isolated so that our heroine is left in the most vulnerable position possible." ~ "How to write romances"

So in short we can say that "gothic" is about "setting" and "mood" which in a since becomes another character in the story and adds to the plot of the over-all story.

SUMMER BEGINS ON SATURDAY ...bring on the long cool drinks, a shady tree and a long book...

As I look through My French doors it is blowing a gale and pouring with rain. Thunder is predicted and hailstorms. Snow down to 500 metres in the South Island predicted. Icebergs floating near Dunedin. Yesterday was hot and tomorrow we are promised back to warm again.

Meanwhile across the Tasman they have 30 bushfires raging with hot high winds and they are literally gasping for water in many places there. Weird so Weird!

Thanks for the clarification on the reading assignment, Joan.

I had to look up epoch and found this definition on dictionary.com: "a point of time distinguished by a particular event or state of affairs; a memorable date."

The word epoch reminds me of the word epic. It seems like epoch is almost like a piece of an epic.

Kiwilady: You're so right - bushfires are a huge threat this year right across the entire country - The Blue Mountains area has already had its fair share - and summer not yet started. Over here in WA water is very precious - bushfire danger everywhere - crops hit by hail - and now the locusts. As you say its Weird!

My copy of the book (from the Library) is a Borzoi Book, Everyman's Edition. It includes a 30 page preface as well as a Chronology chart that includes every year of the Authors life, Literary Context (What books were published that year) and Historical Events ,i.e., what important events were taking palace in the Western World in that year. I can't possibly give you all the info but I will copy out the years surrounding The Woman In White for those who might find it interesting.

1859-From Jan.,living for the rest of his life (with one interlude,) with Mrs. Caroline Graves. The Queen of Hearts (short stories) published. Literary Context:

Darwin:The Origin of the Species

George Eliot:Adam Bebe

Historical Events: Defeat of Palmerston, Derby becomes Prime Minister. India transferred to Crown. Jews admitted to Parliament. Property qualifications for MPs removed. Livingstone on Lake Nyassa.

1860:The Woman in White published in volume form. Literary Context: Dickens:Great Expectations George Elliot: The Mill on the Floss Ruskin: Unto This Last.

Historical: Cobden Treaty with France. Volunteer Movement. Garibaldi in Sicily and Naples.

1861: Collins resigns from the Magazine "All Year Round"

Literary Context:George Eliot-Silas Marner, Charles Reade- The Cloister and The Hearth

Historical: Victor Emmanuel King of Italy, American Civil War (to 1865).

I hope this gives some perspective on the times. I will add more details from the 30 page preface as we go along.

Judy

When "novels" first came on the market they were written primarily for women and most of the accepted writers of the day were men. The category "gothic romance" falls under the heading of "Romance Fiction." So although some "gothic novels" were written by such authors as the Bronte sisters and George Eliot the majority of the books in the 1800s were written in this category by men for women.

Why men wrote "romance fiction"? I believe the answer lies in that: "the romance market, publishers and readers alike, are hungry for [the] product, making the field extremely lucrative. Being lucrative, it is also highly competive..." This is as true today as it was in Collins time.

Oh, boy, I started the book! Won't be able to put it down! Enjoy, everyone!

thank you Joan for your invitation - I have started on a Collins biography and his short stories, and I am looking forward to the book - I love gothic!

Joan ~
Good advise! I stopped reading and put the book on a shelf ... hope I remember which shelf ...
and will read along with the group.

Now off to find some other long book to fill up some of these weeks in December (with no Latin class) ...

Happy December to all! Soon the days will be getting longer!

Jan 2 is my birthday!

Carolyn

No Joan I always have a very quiet birthday. Everyone is usually away on my birthday. Its the summer holiday period here at Christmas.

I have read Moonstone by Wilkie Collins with an online book group a few years ago.

Many of his books, including The Woman in White, are available through Project Gutenberg. I do about 90% of my reading on my pda and download many books from Project Gutenberg - convert them to pdb's and sync them into my palm pilot.

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext96/wwhit10.txt

Is the direct link for The Woman in White. It is a public domain book.

Pat

Hi Joan, I downloaded and synced The Woman in White today and began reading on my wait for my ride home from PT. Many people indeed read on thier handheld devices. My one online reading group called me a heretic at first. Now half the group reads this way!

My daughter asked me what I wanted for my birthday. I said "Woman in White" She and her family usually come home from their holiday just for the morning of my birthday. The only kid who does, and then they go back to the beach after they have had coffee with me and given me my presents.

Probably not The Thirteenth Tale Joan.

Somehow when I do a group read I either get the book read way before or way after everyone else.

Am away now on holiday until January so will miss most of the pre-discussion- Am taking Woman in White to read on the plane....

Maybe I'll be lucky enough to get a copy of this. I've a palm pilot..maybe I can download too.. haven't used it for that purpose yet. I'm hosting "Wigilia"( the Christmas Eve celebration)this year at home,in Chicago, expecting about 20 people. Not in California with my daughter this time. Greeting to all my SeniorNet Book Club folks Collette PS. Book is on order also, EuropeEast& West by Norman Davies which I'm treating myself to as a Christmas gift

I am getting "Woman in White" for my birthday. I put in my order with my eldest daughter.

Carolyn

Joan, Our family comes from the Eastern part of Poland so the menu is similar: At the first star, we will break the Oplatek, the blessed wafer and wish everyone good health& happiness. There will be:herring with onion in oil(maybe pickled too.)Clear beet soup (borsch) with "uszki" (tiny pierogi with mushrooms).Kulebiak..a puff pastry filled with savory cabbage & mushrooms or with rice &mushrooms. Galaretka of white fish..(fish in aspic, very tasty) served with lemon or horsradish. Rye Bread. Fried Fish, Vegetables of our choice,Potatoes w/dill. Salad. Dried Fruit Compot, Poppy seed Cake, Nuts & Candies & Cookies. (Traditionally one would serve Vodka)

I expect about 12-14 people...and of course there is always the place set for the " unexpected " guest and straw under the table cloth to represent the Christchild. Today would have been my husband's 88th birthday. Collette

Colette--You make me wish I could show up and be the "unexpected". I notice there is no meat, only fish. Is that deliberate?

Anniversaries for the departed are sometimes hard. One of my daughters always calls me up on such (my late husband's birthday, the day he died, etc.). She doesn't say why until I show that I remember the occasion, which I always do.

Previously it was an all meatless meal in accordance with the church laws. Today meat can be served...my family likes the old standard.. I do have Bigos (Hunters stew) which spent all day cooking in the oven for those who wish to have something else. Hunter's stew consists of sauerkraut, sweet cabbage, onion, dried mushrooms, leftover meats, sausage etc all slow cooked together. It's an acquired taste, but very delicious. Best Collette

I started to read "The Woman and White" and (not to give the plot away or anything) I thought you folks would be interested in learning about a real life "insanity" trial.

"...Anyone who over-stepped the bounds of acceptable conduct - particularly women - invited an accusation of madness." ~ Introduction: Insanity and False Incarnation ~ "The Woman in White"

Keeping these words in mind let me tell you what happened to Mary Lincoln. Mrs. Lincoln suffered most of her adult life from clinical depression and acute female "problems". In the mid 1800s the only remedy for either problem was to give the patient laudanum to relieve the pain. As a result the patient could experience "paranoid delusions".

In Mrs. Lincoln's case she told her friends and family that she thought she was being followed. At the insanity trial Robert Lincoln testified that he indeed had hired "agents" to follow his mother for as he testified "her own safety".

At another part of the trial a clerk at a clothing store testified that Mrs. Lincoln bought over $2,000 worth of black material even before her husband was assassinated. Considering that at that time almost every woman in Washington City was wearing black I don't see this as being anything unusual. She was after all the president's wife and probably couldn't be seen in the same dress twice. But the most interesting part about this clerk's testimony was that Mrs. Lincoln insisted on carrying the packages home herself.

Now today we wouldn't think twice about carrying our own packages, but back than it was unheard of especially for someone of Mrs. Lincoln's station. On the other hand during this time period many customers would be delivered of products they either they did not purchase or were added to the purchases already made by them.

If we look at Mrs. Lincoln's trial through the eyes of a woman, I don't think we can come to the same conclusion as the twelve bearded men who sat on the jury who in some cases were her husband's politician enemies.

At any rate Mrs. Lincoln through friends managed to get a lot of publicity for herself and as a result left the asylum and also got a new trial with the outcome that she was found "sane". She therefore managed to get full possession of all her property from Robert Lincoln and went into self-exile in Europe until two or three weeks before she died.

If she was guilty of anything, her major fear was that she was afraid that she wouldn't have enough money to live on [in the style she was accustomed to]. To me this isn't unfounded fear since she had just lost her husband and she really had no physical means of supporting herself. Luckily Abraham Lincoln left her a small sum of life insurance and congress later gave her an a small pension to live on as well.

In the end it was Robert Lincoln who not only inherited his father's melancholy, but his mother's clinical depression. After his mother's death he became an millionaire from the investments he made with her money by buying Pullman cars when railroads became a popular travel means to cross country. In the end he died an old man who was estranged from his wife and children and who could never quite live up to his father's reputation.

If you are interested in reading more about the case of Mary Todd Lincoln; read "The Insanity File" by Mark E. Neely, Jr and R. Gerald McMurty: Southern Illinois University Press, Carbondale and Edwardsville: Copyright @ 1986.

I signed up for Snow. I really want to read Woman in White too. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Decisions, decisions....

Joan and everyone - I am so glad to hear you are reading Wilkie Collins. I read him and Charles Williams after reading all of C.S.Lewis that I could find in the 60s. I will be excited to see how everyone likes "The Woman in White" .. and "The Moonstone" too. I will have to dig out my old thin-paper small volume of "The Woman...." I have not seen it for a while, but I know it must be around. If all else fails I will go to Half-Price Books. See you Jan 2. Peace isak

I have a copy of "Woman in White" to begin my re-reading. Surprisingly, the paperback copy had a larger font than the small hardback, so I selected that. The story is long enough that the somewhat larger print seemed advisable.

I was pleased to find that the paperback edition had addenda the hardback copy lacked, including a true story that was one of the sources of Collins "Woman in White". I'll share that story the next time I post. Unfortunately, it ended less agreeably than Mrs. Lincoln's story.

Babi

What a book! I'm really enjoying it! Great Choice!

Just another reminder:
Anyone who has the paperback with the notes at the beginning ...
Spoiler alert ... you will find the editor drops way to many spoilers in his introductory remarks;
I had to stop reading, to avoid them.

Wishing a Happy and Healthy New Year to All !!!

Another summer type joining in - I am very lucky with a large-type edition (ISIS CLASSIC) from the library - just finished Walter Hartright"s narrative - it is a real page-turner so I hope to finish before we start the modern book.

I've finished the Hartright narrative too, and am enjoying it so far. I love the way these long novels build up so slowly.

And Mippy, thanks for the reminder, you're so right! I've got loads of introductory stuff in my version of the book. It even looks like there's a script for a play that was written based on the book. Will be interesting to look at later--much later.

Christy

On further consideration, I think telling the story I mentioned in Post #51 might be premature. Those who are reading the book for the first time might have some of the 'mystery' spoiled by reading about the true events that are considered one of Collins' sources. Why don't I wait 'til the end of the discussion for that? Like MIPPY says, we don't want to spoil the fun with too much advance info.

Babi

I have a copy of WIW with a thirty page intro by Nicholas Rance. He doesn't give away any secrets of the book but he does plunge you into the Literary world of that time. I learned much from these pages and will endeavor to give you all some of the important facts of this period.

"Collins novel was part of a period known as" Literary Sensationalism.' However "what reviewers had identified as new about Collins ..was that he dispensed with haunted castles in favor of, in the words of Henry James, 'the mysteries that are at our own doors.'

"I have put my emphasis on the frequent complexity and the profundity of the suspense, belying the pejorative tag of melodrama which has often docketed the fiction in the past. It may encourage admirers of Collins that contemporaries found the fiction challenging and disturbing , often more so than than they were willing or able to acknowledge. Sensation Fiction belongs to the context of the 1860s. On the other hand , we are living in times when "Victorian Values" have recently been much trumpeted. The WIW wittily unmasks 'Victorian Values' as ideology, effacing with a moral gloss .......the inferno of misery , of wretchedness , that is smoldering under our feet. It is a tribute to the radicalism by Victorian standards of the WIW ....that Collins' novel is liable to seem curiously up to the minute to the modern reader".

I read about half the book before I read the intro but nothing is given away and I really was sorry that I didn't know some of the facts beforehand. Next time I will give some of the story about the intertwining of the Collins and Dickens families.

Judy

We were just commenting in another forum on books that bring frightening things "at our own doors". The comment that contemporaries found Collins' fiction "challenging and disturbing" is much like the effect of Stephen Kings' work today. I can read Collins and not be frightened, because it is at a safe remove. But having read Stephen King...and quit reading Stephen King...gives me a better idea of how WIW must have affected the readers of that day.

Thanks for that very helpful post, JUDY.

Babi

I have started reading the Woman in White on-line. The library wouldn't renew it for me. However, the text is nice and large on-line so I am finding it easier to read than the old copy I had had from the library.

Did I mention that I bought The Thirteenth Tale? I may buyWIW also.

I have been reading a bit as a bed time story. I am not sure how much to say now but I am enjoying the book. After the first meeting with the woman in the white dress I can't help wondering when she will reappear.

I'll see you all on January 2nd until than Happy New Year!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!! http://wilstar.com/xmas/auldlangsyne.htm