Books Into Movies: Part I ~ 6/00 Export

How many of you have read a book, then watched a movie that was based on that same book? Were you disappointed? Or elated that they hadn't made any significant changes? Or even surprised to discover the movie was even better than the book?
Join us in an ongoing discussion of this very popular subject right now. Pull up a chair, take off your shoes, pour yourself a cup of coffee or hot chocolate, and just join in!

“A novel is a narrative that organizes itself in the world. And the cinema is a world that organizes itself into a narrative..”
French film critic Jean Mitry

Your Discussion Leaders: Lorrie Gorg and Bill H.

FAMOUS MUSICALS----THEN AND NOW
RODGERS & HAMMERSTEIN

BROADWAY	HOLLYWOOD
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum	Victor/Victoria
Annie	The Unsinkable Molly Brown
Annie Get Your Gun	Gigi
Beauty and the Beast	High Society
Bring in 'Da Noise, Bring in 'Da Funk	Meet Me in St. Louis
Chicago - The Musical	Show Boat
Clue	Seven Brides For Seven Brothers
Damn Yankees	Anchors Aweigh
Doctor Dolittle	The Great Caruso
Gypsy	An American In Paris
Into the Woods	Easter Parade
Les Miserables	The Harvey Girls
The Lion King	Ziegfeld Follies
Lord of the Dance	Singin' In The Rain
Miss Saigon	Thousands Cheer
On The Town	Deep In My Heart
Peter Pan	Naughty Marietta
The Phantom of the Opera	The Gay Divorcee
Rent	Maytime
Riverdance	The Barkleys Of Broadway
Sunday in the Park With George	The Great Ziegfeld
Sweeney Todd	Sweethearts
West Side Story	Girl Crazy
La Cage Aux Folles	On The Town
Crazy for You	Les Girls

GREATEST MUSICALS OF ALL TIME Everyone is welcome!

How about Titus? Anyone seen this? I may try and get to it this weekend. One of the few Shakespeare plays I have not read, though.

Hi, Charlie! Welcome to our new discussion! "Titus" sounds good, let's make it one of the selections to talk about. p.s. How do you like that popcorn thing? Great, isn't it?

To any newcomers here, this will be a general discussion of books that have been made into films, not just one particular film but we hope to comment on many of them. Have you ever read a book you liked and then discovered you hated the way Hollywood depicted that book? Tell us about it! Everyone is welcome!

Lorrie

WONDERFUL topic, Lorrie. Congratulations and I can't wait!

Lorrie - this is great! Love the heading!

Is there enough popcorn for a crowd? It is so expensive to buy in a movie theatre - not that I go that often, but recently went to see the Cider House Rules. Would recommend it for the issues involved - plus a good old-fashioned movie - no sex or violence and Michael Caine is great, as always.

Now I want to read the book but when I stopped in the Library I am 50th on the list to get it.

There's a new site on the Web at www.half.com - books are cheap there but they just have a paperback copy of the Cider House. Paperbacks are getting harder for me to read, so I think I'll wait.

Welcome, welcome, Mary Page and Ella! Yes, Ella, we'll have plenty of popcorn to go around. My job is really that of popcorn-minder, you know. There's been a lot of talk about Cider House Rules. We'll have to look into that one.

Ella, you're the opposite of me--I always wait for the paperback edition, if any. I've been bombarding our local library with suggestions about recent best-sellers. I suggested that they could put one or two copies of a book on a rental basis--I'm sure many people wouldn't mind paying a couple dollars to rent a popular book. I realize it would be hard for slow readers, but those waiting lists are soooo long!

It's good to see you in here! You, too, Charlie!

Lorrie

Please don't sit next to me. Can't bear the smell of pop corn! Lorrie, there have been SO many movies that upset me because I had read the book and then felt Hollywood really messed it up big time. There have been one or two movies that really got it exactly right and one that changed the book, but made the movie better than the book. Can we talk about these as well? eating chocolates i've slipped into my purse and into the theatre on the sly, Marypage

How about the other way around? I saw the movie, Barbarians at the Gate, and immediately went out and read the book on which it was based. The movie was interesting (if you're interested in business) -- it was about the leveraged buyout of Nabsico, and it starred James Garner (in a role unlike his usual screen persona -- he was swearing and everything!). However, I think the book was better.

Oh, and I know it's not Feb. 1 yet, but since other people are posting, I figured it was OK!

Mary Page: Well, really! And I can't stand the smell of chocolate. So there!

Yes, yes, to your question. In fact, Hollywood has goofed up so many good books, that it's refreshing to hear about one they got just right. We're also going to look at some famous books that made it into films way back when, including some of Jane Austen's books. Did you like her books? For instance, Louisa May Alcott's Little Women, just for an example.

Lorrie

Sure it is, Texas Songbird! We're having a pre-nuptial shower here! hahaha You know, I've done the same thing myself! Saw the movie and then bought the book. It's interesting to see what Hollywood left out or changed in some way, isn't it?

I wonder how many people bought Gone With the Wind after seeing the movie. Plenty, I'll bet!

Lorrie

Lorrie, count me in for this new discussion, only if you promise not to throw a bag of popcorn over my head! (grin)

I will set between you two that way I can have chocolate, then can share the popcorn also. Ok

Okay, Ginger, youre on!

Oh, yes! I've not only Seen them all, I Own every movie ever made of every book! Three versions each of Emma (my favorite) and Pride & Prejudice. Because I never get tired of them, I tend to admire the longer versions most just because they give more detail. I have not yet seen the new Mansfield Park, but I will purchase it when the video is for sale. There is, to my knowledge, only one Northanger Abbey. Have some of my truffles, Ginger, but don't let me Hear you crunching that popcorn!

Mary Thanks for the Delicous Truffles. O my how do I keep the popcorn from crunching. Guess I had better move.

I was looking for Joe Coomer books at Amazon and local movies at DIGITAL CITY when and I came across a bunch of books that are current movies. They are a separate category at my MOVIE site. I thought I might rather read them because they are usually better than the movies. Here they are

GIRL INTERRUPTED by susanna kaysen

TIS by frank McCourt

SICK PUPPY by Carl Hiaasen

THE POISENWOOD BIBLE by Barbara Kingsolver

THE CIDER HOUSE RULES by John Irving

THE TALENTED MR. RIPLEY by Patricia HIghsmith

HURRICANE by James S. Hirsch

MONSTER by Jon Kellerman.

So a successful novel gets to be a movie and offers twice as much recompense to a writer. It pays to write for the screen as we noticed in TIMELINE and GREEN MILE. I just finished the book PRINCE OF TIDES by PAT conroy and it was MUCH better than the movie.

Claire

If Prince of Tides is better than the movie, I better get it. I really enjoyed the movie with Nick Nolte (one of his best pieces of acting, I think) and Barbra Streisand. I watched it recently, as a matter of fact, but came in after it started. I remember thinking just before the credits (I'm an inveterate credits watcher, and it makes me so MAD when they don't run the credits at all or shrink them into a tiny box so they can plug something coming up. But I degress.) about who wrote the movie, and I had decided before they said it that it was Pat Conroy. He is such a fine writer. Incidentally, here's a neat biography on him: http://www.fusiondesign.com/books_unbound/conrybio.htm

Shirley, what blabbermouth told you about my past transgression? I gave up throwing popcorn all over nasty theater patrons when I grew up and reached maturity. Like last year, maybe?

Ginger: What, no scones?

Mary Page: Yesterday we had lunch at a new place here called "the Victorian Tea Room" and after your post I thought of you. It was simly charming, an old mansion renovated and turned into an authentic Victorian home, where they just happen to serve tea. Complete with cherubs and angels in the bathroom, stained glass windows--the whole period piece. You would have loved it, especially if you like Jane Austen.

Claire: Thanks for the link. I always liked Conroy, especially the book about life in a Southern military academy, can't remember the name of it--I think that was another movie made from a book.

Lorrie

Lorrie, looks like everyone is chomping at the bit or rather the popcorn to get this discussion started! I'm in (:

Eileen

Lorrie, the Conroy book was actually about The Citadel in Charleston, SC, although the name was changed. And the name is flickering in and out of my so-called brain faster than I can see it when it flickers in.

The Victorian Tea Room sounds just my cuppa. We have a wonderful old home in downtown Fairfax, right across from our ancient Court House and right in our About-A-Zillion-Lawyers-In-These-Office-Buildings part of the old city, that has been renovated and is now called The Baliwick Inn. You can make a reservation on 2 afternoons a week and dress up fit to kill and go to an AFTANOON TEA there for $20 apiece. Veddy fancy, but a tour of the mansion is thrown in and it is To Die For! I went with a friend a couple of Christmasas ago, and their decorations were wonderful as well.

My twin first cousin and I (same age, she deceased now) used to make a hobby of checking out all the tea rooms in New York City. She lived there. We never got to all of them, but sure had heaps of fun in the ones we experienced. The Plaza has a particularly satisfactory one: piano, violins, famous people scattered about, linen cloths, full individual pots of any brew you desire, and teensy pastries on a trolley, just like in the New Yorker cartoons! I had the Most Minute chocolate eclairs ever made. Oh, and there is the portrait of Eloise to top everything off.

I just ate dinner so I THINK I can survive all this FOOD talk!!! [LOL] I agree with whomever said Conroy's Prince of Tides is better than its movie. I don't recall The Citadel featuring in it?

I read Girl, Interrupted which is a memoir, autobiographical rather than a novel. It seemed when I read it like a young woman telling of an experience she deeply resented and wanted the world to know about it. It disappointed me and I have no interest in seeing a movie based on it.

I'd like to see Cider House Rules; it was a pretty good book although a little longer than it needed to be.

I had read Snow Falling on Cedars and went to see the movie eagerly as I had liked the book a lot. Movie drags a bit but otherwise very well done with excellent actors chosen for the main characters.

This is such an interesting topic, Lorrie, discussing books made into movies! I, too, am a great fan of Jane Austen and have always enjoyed the movies made from her books. Was "Pride and Predjudice" the first? The one with Greer Garson and Laurence Olivier? I own that one, an alltime favorite movie.

Jeryn: I was not speaking of Prince of Tides. I was talking about another Conroy book that Barbara mentioned but could not think of the title of and then neither could I.

I adored Snow Falling on Cedars, and it was so soft and mutedly tender and precious a book that I was afraid they could not carry over those qualities into a movie. Did they?

Yes, at least as far as My collection is concerned, which I believe is complete, the Greer Garson Pride & Prejudice was the first. And the most fun one; although Hollywood did deviate from the book quite a bit. The mother in the book was not nearly so jolly and likable and the aunt in the book never, ever took Lizzie's part on behalf of her nephew. A lot of very famous actors and actresses were in that one, though. OLD Golden Days of Hollywood stuff. And in Black & White!

I had read Little Women six or seven times before I ever saw any version of the movie, so NO version has ever come close to the pictures in my head. Katherine Hepburn was a good Jo, I think (and was it June Allyson who played her in the later version?) But Beth? Ah, Beth. No. No. No. In fact, I can't even think of anybody who would make a good Beth.

By the way, according to the Internet Movie DataBase (my favorite trivia source), there have been 10 versions of Little Women! Even more, the version starring Katherine Hepburn was the THIRD one (1933)! And there was a musical version in 1958!

The Conroy movie about the Citadel was called Lords of Discipline, and yes, they did make a movie of it. It's been quite a while, though.

Texas Songbird: Wasn't Elizabeth Taylor in one of those early Little Women movies? As Beth?

Mary Page: That trip to the Plaza sounds wonderful. And to think I missed it when I was there!

I finished the, Green Mile, by Stephen King. I will not see the movie as I don't think I could bear it after reading the book. It sure causes one to think about capital punishement.

Sage

Hi what about "The Horse Whisperer's" good book and Robert R played a good part as did the others especially the young girl,sorry i'm not good with actor and actress's names. I think the horse was the best of all.The scene where RR waits for the horse to come to him was very well captured, as well as the ending!

Rich, The Horse Whisperer is the very one I was thinking of where the movie was actually Better than the book.

Lorrie! That's the book! I have a messy file system in my mind; just could not find it!

Texas Songbird & Lorrie: Yes, Liz Taylor did play Beth, and I thought she was ghastly, but I still enjoy rewatching the old movies just to see them all young again. Yes, it Was June Allyson, and she was a good Jo, I thought. And Kathryn Hepburn was good as well. The Worst Beth was Margaret O'Brien. Just did not match the Beth in the book at all.

Rich McC: Welcome to our group, Rich! Pull up a chair, take off your shoes, help yourself to the popcorn! We aren't officially started until Tuesday, but we've been getting a lot of very good comments already. I like your suggestion about The Horse Whisperer. It's going on my list of books into movies right now. I loved that book!

Lorrie

MaryPage, have you seen the newest "Little Women" with Winoa Ryder? She also stars in "Girl Interrupted". I like the Little Women version and I have seen the main three that have been made. I always liked June Allyson, in all of her movies. Especially "Meet Me In St Louis". But back to books in movies, how about "Angela's Ashes"? Haven't seen it yet, but I will. With Ella, no doubt. We saw "Cider House Rules" last week and its very well done. I have read McCourt's "Tis" and liked it a lot as he is a good story teller. His word pictures work for me. What did anyone think of "A Thousand Acres"? We read that in our book club and saw the movie. It was hard to capture the flow of language from the book to the screen. But, the movie was well done, I thought.

Where's my popcorn? I didn't put the butter on mine, just a little salt! Oh, is that what's down here on the floor? Who did that?

Lorrie throws popcorn. Shhhhh!

Hi, Ann! Welcome! Pick up that popcorn, mama don't allow no messin' around in here!

You hit the nail on the head, Ann. It's very difficult to turn a "wordy" book into a great movie, but it can be done. I have in mind, "The English Patient" that I thought was wonderful in both versions.

Mary Page: Blabbermouth!

Lorrie

Well, I must say, I’m really delighted with the response this discussion is generating! I want to warn you all, first of all. I’m still a newby at this being a Discussion Leader, so I’ll ask you to please forgive me in advance for any boo-boo’s I make, or toes I inadvertently step on. I’ll need all the help I can get, so, dear readers, I’m counting on you.

Right now we’re just sort of warming up–the discussion doesn’t start officially until Tuesday, but I’m really enjoying the comments we’ve heard so far. Isn’t it fun to just sort of natter away? I know I’m not very dignified in leading this group, but I figure, what the heck, this is supposed to be a relaxed, informal discussion, isn’t it? Here we are, all sitting around with our shoes off, munching popcorn and chocolate. (Mary Page is sitting off in the corner where she can’t smell the popcorn) and just chatting in general.

Lorrie

Lorrie

EXACTly where I gravitate to in Any gathering. Best seat in the house for observing what everyone else is up to! Besides, I can always stand up to see the picture if someone's head gets in the way.

Stop by the corner if you want some Really good chocolates. Don't offer popcorn, pulleezzzze!

Lorrie, you are hitting Just the right chords for My appreciation and I think we are going to have a blast. All Aboard! Whoops, you are the Conducter. I've just always wanted to yell that.

One of the movies that disappointed me the most as a movie was "Prince of Tides." Pat Conroy wove such a beautiful story and the movie completely refocused it, cut crucial parts of the plot and while as a stand-alone movie it wasn't bad, as a depiction of Conroy's story, it was a very big disappointment.

Hello, Bev. S--Welcome! I think we're going to make up a list and Prince of Tides is definitely on that list, we'll be talking about it.

When Mary Page talked about tea at the Plaza, it made me remember the one time years ago, when I went to Radio City Music Hall, and for the princely sum of $2 (if you went before 11: a.m.) we saw a first-run full length movie, a newsreel, two cartoons, then that magnificent stage show, complete with the Rockettes! It was sheer enchantment!! Remember the old movie houses back then? Some of them were like palaces.

LORRIE

Most books made into movies have disappointed me but three that made the books for me was Kenneth Branach Much Ado About Nothing Gerard Depardieu's Cyroano De Bergerac and the vidio series of Benson's Mapp and Lucia

Those old Movie Houses were special weren't they - we alway went to a movie as a treet with my children the night after Christmas. It was all dress up time and downtown with often a cold wind and once while we lived in Lexington we drove all the way over to Louisville to the new wide screened theater to see How the West was Won Now that was an epic on screen.

Mary Place: Thanks so much for the vote of confidence!!

Barbara: It's so nice to see your name here! Yes, I simply adored Kenneth Branagh in that version of "Much Ado About Nothing," and his wife at the time(can't remember her name, terrific actor) was wonderful, also, I thought. I was so sorry to hear they'd broken up, that couple was so good together!

Lorrie

Emma Thompson! Yes, they made an all-time classic, and no one will ever come that close to perfection with Shakespeare. It was one huge romp.

I agree, too, with Barbara, about the perfection of that Cyrano.

But I was hugely disappointed with the Mapp & Lucia. They did not come anywhere close to the characters as I had imagined them.

I went back to check for sure, and I was right. Elizabeth Taylor played AMY in that version of Little Women. That was the version where June Allyson was Jo and Margaret O'Brien was Beth. Janet Leigh played Meg. (And Peter Lawford was Laurie, the boy next door).

MaryPage, I'm glad to hear someone else that was disappointed in the Mapp & Lucia series made-for-TV. The person playing Lucia was pretty good but I just HAD NOT pictured that man [senior moment--what WAS his name?] as such a priss! And Mapp looked the part but garbled her speeches and failed the obnoxious test!

I just went to see the new movie of Mansfield Park [Jane Austen's novel] yesterday. What a delight! I recommend it. However, like many modern movies, things you know from reading the book--relationships, for example--are never made clear. One would not have known as far as I could tell that Fanny and Edmund were actually cousins! Not much of that done these days but I believe it was rather common in England of 1806.

When we get started officially on Tuesday, we're going to have a list of suggested books/films and we'll try to follow that list. We'll be starting with some classics and older book/movies first, because a lot of the people posting here will not have read some of the newer books or seen the movie. Claire, for instance, posted an excellent list of possible subjects, and they will be on the list, only later, because most of them are quite recent.

Because I really dislike going to theaters I usually rent any movies I see to view at home, so I personally haven't seen many of the "new" ones, but that's only temporary.

I have a question for all you movie buffs!! Can you tell us what was the first movie made from a book? And that includes silent films, too! Okay, all you researchers out there, start clidking that mouse!

Lorrie

RE: Old movie houses... (it's still Sunday--we don't have to be "on topic" yet, do we? <g>), I grew up in SF and those old movie palaces were the norm for me. 25 cents to get in, 10 cents for popcorn, and you got a serial, a couple of cartoons and a double feature...and the movie houses were ornate places with gold everywhere, and beautiful chandaliers and wonderful murals on the walls. Most of those theatres still exist, but they have been pared down to remove all the glitz and are now multiplexes. Very utilitarian and absolutely no charm whatsoever.

Here in Ohio, several towns have totally renovated and restored those gorgeous old movie theatres. They are now used for operas, symphonies, and similar performances. Wonderful to see!

Specifically, the Ohio Theatre and the Palace in Columbus, the Renaissance Theatre in Mansfield, the theatres at Playhouse Square in Cleveland [were they movie houses? anyone know?] and I believe there is a restored theatre in downtown Akron too. There are probably others I don't know about.

Bev, San Francisco always Has been an expensive place to live! In my home town in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, I went at ten thirty on Saturday mornings and paid ten cents. This is what I got: TWO full features: usually cowboy movies, but sometimes Nelson Eddy & Jeannette MacDonald and such. Also a cartoon, a news reel, a comedy or travelogue episode, and a Serial! Sometimes the serial was Flash Gordon or some Sci Fi running story and sometimes it was some other scary thing where each week left the hero or heroine falling off a cliff or having a train bearing down on them, etc. Grandma always gave me a quarter on Saturday mornings, and I bought a pound of jelly beans for ten cents at the five & dime first. Took it into the movie with me. Sat through TWO WHOLE GO ROUNDS OF EVERYTHING and then staggered out into daylight to spend my last five cents on an ice cream cone that was HUGE!

Jeryn, yes, first cousin marriages were very common. A lot of them on my family tree, too; shudder!

Yes, Elizabeth Taylor DID play Amy!

And sometimes we got dishes or other give-aways.

Robby

Oh, Robby! That was on Friday Night! Family Night! NOT on Saturday mornings in Winchester, Virginia!

We had the Palace and the Capital. I think Everyone had a Palace!

MaryPage:

I forget which nights (or afternoons) they were. And sometimes there were glasses.

I haven't caught all the postings here but we have mentioned vaudeville - right?

Robby

Now THAT'S before my time, Robby! <LOL>

I think Jeryn is being coy, Robby.

Not mine!! My father and I would go to the beautiful ornate theatre in Bay Shore, Long Island on Sundays where prior to the Movietone News and the feature there would be a vaudeville of about six acts. I was about 12 years old then.

Robby

I don't remember Winchester ever having vaudeville. I don't think we were important enough. Washington, D.C. had it, however, and I took it in a few times there. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure it was the Palace on F Street that Was like a Palace and always had the vaudeville with their movies. F Street used to be Heaven to spend a day on! Back in the Forties!

I'm with MaryPage as to what we got for ten cents - the kids waited outside the theater in droves and it opened at noon on Saturday. When my sister and I went, we paid by returning to the grocery on the way, 2 pop bottles each and a milk bottle worth two cents so that we could go into the ice cream parlar next door and get two cents worth of candy. Many of the kids stayed to see parts of the feature a second time or sometimes it all ran long but all the Catholic kids scrambled out of the theater by 4:30 to run like crazy to get to confession that stopped at 5:00. If the feature had a lot of talking or love scenes the kids would all be talking and the din was so loud that ushers would try to quiet us with flashlights or sometimes they would yell from the back "Quiet" - of course we just filled the front seats.

Except me, Barbara! I was one of the very few who kept the seats UP and sat on the front edge of that seat in the UP position in the back row. I would lick those jelly beans first to see what flavor they were, and if I did not like one, it got thrown as far as I could throw it with the hope it stuck in the hair of those rotten chatterers down front! So how many of my jelly beans stuck in Your hair?

Mary Page, Jeryn, Barbara, Robby: Ah, the memories this talk about old theaters brings back! In Chicago there were several huge theatres, Balban & Katz, I think they were, that were absolutely magnificent. They even had fake stars in the ceiling where you could look up and pretend you were out on a desert somewhere.

I think those Saturday morning movies for kids were all over the country. In one city, you could get the whole shmeer for a buffalo nickel. It was a great way to have a good time with hardly any money.

Robby, of course they had vaudeville when we were children. But my parents would never have allowed us anywhere near them. It's a shame, too, because I've read where vaudeville was the start for many a well known star in later years, especially comedians. Like you, my husband used to go to "vodvil" shows when he was about 11, and he and his brothers adored them. He thought those comedians' routines were the funniest things he'd ever seen.

Lorrie

Incidentally, Robby, those dishes they gave away are real collectors' items now! Worth some money, so if you still have some, hang on to them.

a cousin of mine, Leon Harris , aka Lee Harrison ( I guess an Irish name worked better than a Jewish one) was in vaudville with folks like Lillian Russell and ilk

My Mom had a folder full of their professional photos. I still have them and thought to put them on a page. The large ones, too big for my scanner, can now be handled with my new digital camera. I searched the web but found very little information about these people. So such a site might serve a good purpose. I thought they might be worth something too, but didn't see anything on them although autographs of theatrecle celebraties from the twenties on up are standard collectables

Claire

Claire: What an intriguing idea! But do you think perhaps some of the people who post in these discussions might be a little too young? Even now some of my contemporaries reply, when I talk about vaudeville, "Oh, that's before my time!" And these people are in their seventies!

Lorrie

Claire, I tried to reach you by email but my letter to you was kicked back. I wanted to ask you something as our unofficial "artist in residence." It's okay now, but do you have a stopper on your email?

I have always hated to sit at the front of a movie theater -- and never do. Too loud and too close. I always sit as far back as I can. Oddly, this is contrary to everywhere else I go, where I always sit as close to the front as I can (church, school, meetings, etc.)

A couple of old movie memories for me -- I have always looked younger than my age, and I am probably the ONLY kid in the history of the world who would march up to the ticket window and say, "I'm 12 years old -- give me an adult ticket"!!!

Also, we had a movie theater less than a block from my house -- as the crow flies, it was really just kind of kittycorner from my home, but you had to walk through a field in which a cow resided to get to the theater. I was really afraid of the cow, but I'd do it in the daytime. But never at night (this was in part because you never knew where the cow was -- or anything else it might have left behind!). Anyway, I always took the long way around at night and I can remember after seeing a Fred Astaire movie or one with Gene Kelly or Debbie Reynolds dancing my way home -- not that I could dance, but I'd sing the songs and try the tap steps and just glide rhythmically along. My, those were the days. And those were the movies.

I just realized that those comments have NOTHING to do with books into movies or movies into books -- I just got carried away.

Incidentally, speaking of movies into books, I saw something the other night -- oh, I remember, it was The Long Hot Summer -- and they said it was a case where the book came out after the movie. The movie was actually based on several William Faulkner stories and there was no book per se. However, the movie was so popular and people wanted to read the book it was based on, so they put the stories into a book after the fact. Don't know how true that is, but it sure was interesting.

Lorrie, Oh well do I remember the theaters in Chicago. I was 12 and my brother was 14 in 1942, housing was scarce so we had to live in a hotel for 3 months and went to the movies every day@! I remember the big theaters had stage shows as well as the A movie. I saw Marie McDonald (the body?) at one theater, no one will remember her (:. Sometimes we would go to the cheapie theaters, (10 cents) and see a couple of movies in a day.

Eileen

As some of you know or found out by clicking onto my name, I returned to full-time studies at the age of 52 and was a student until age 59. I used to go to a movie house in East Chatham, New York, outside of Albany which had special rates for students. There is no one poorer than a grad student and so I wasn't in the least embarrassed when I first presented my student ID at this house. At first they thought I was kidding but got used to my going to their movie each week and receiving a discount.

Robby

Texas Songbird: Not to worry. Chatter on all you like. We aren't starting officially until Tuesday, anyway. Besides, this is going to be a very informal discussion. Can't you tell--everybody's sitting around here with their shoes off. And that's Mary Page in the corner--she can't stand the smell of popcorn.

Robby: you have such a deadly serious expression that I'm sure the ticket takers at the theater could believe you were a student. They probably thought, "Well, this can't be any con man!"

Seriously, though, I'm making a sort of list for books/movies to be discussed, and I need your suggestions. I'll post it later this evening, so feel free to name a book.

By the way, hasn't anyone tried to find the answer to the question I asked in an earlier post? DO YOU KNOW THE NAME OF THE FIRST MOVIE THAT WAS MADE FROM A BOOK? And that includes silent films.

Lorrie

Lorrie:

I didn't know I had a "deadly serious expression." All the pictures of me sent back from Chicago showed me laughing.

Robby

Well it seems like everyone here went to the Sat afternoon double feature. Face it there was no where else to go,until the summer came.Back then only hoodlums went to pool halls and who could afford bowling alleys at 10 cents a string? As someone mentioned we would collect bottles all over the neighborhood to get the 25 cent price of the movie and the nickle candy bars. Does anyone remember the "phantom series", "buck Rodgers", and "Tom Mix" with his big white hat, and "Buck Jones" and the thousand riders on horseback all throwing there bullets and never reloading. The serials were always the big attraction But back to books How about the Tom Clancy novels..."The Hunt for Red October","Patriot Games" and others. those movies only vaguely resemembled the books. Right down the street from me was a place called "Tommy Colton's" and every vaudville star worth their salt started there. Remember "Crazy Gugenhiem"...This is getting too long later Rich

RichMcC - Yes, I remember the Saturday serial of Buck Rogers, that was run at our local little neighbor movie theatre. Particularly, how they would have strapped on their back, the belt that would aid them in flying through the air. Many years ago, I attended an air show here in Dayton and saw a man who was lifted into the air with just such an apparatus. Of course, it was just air pressure that elevated him, I think; but, it was still a memorable thing to see.

I also remember, the 1/2 hour vaudeville shows at the larger theatres downtown. I remember seeing Ozzie Nelson, and Harriet Hilliard (I think her name was at that time) - he had a good band and she was the singer. I believe we all have happy memories of those earlier movies. Does any one remember "The Last Days of Pompeii"?

Oh, Robby, just kidding, of course! Were you smiling in those pictures? I thought maybe you were in pain. hahaha

Rich Mc and Mary: It sounds to me as though everyone who posted today must have had the same childhood memories of Saturday mornings at the movies. Of course I remember Flash Gordon, and those heroic cowboys! Later on, i can now admit my first crush was Roy Rogers. I saved up a quarter and sent away for his picture, a big one showing Roy sitting on his beautiful Trigger. I kept that picture until it was in tatters.

Lorrie

the mention of the WIZARD OF OZ in the library forum reminds me that there are many OZ books. I read most of them sitting on the floor in a corner of the temple library when I was supossed to be in Satuday school. It was the subject of a movie though. How about Dickens and David Copperfield or even some of the greek myths. They've made them into movies too.

Don't take me seriously. I don't think I want to go that far back.

Trouble with Tom Clancy's novels I think I've read them all. my favorite the first. The Hunt for Red October.

Claire

How about the recent "Last of the Mohicans"? Leave it to Hollywood to utterly trash a story. It has been made over before, and most versions, like the recent one, had the title right, and that was about all. What makes those people think they can improve on a book, wheter a classic or not?

Claire... My grandfather was in vaudeville, in California. He had a scrapbook of photos too and it kills me that as a kid I never asked him about his career, so I have this book where no photos are identified and I haven't a clue who is who. I also have a book of newspaper clippings. I am probably going to donate the lot to a performing arts museum in San Francisco.

Texas Songbird, I adore your memories. Please Don't quit sharing them. There are a number of movies which started as a film script and then were made into books because the movie was popular.

Eileen, I Do, Too, remember Maria McDonald! So there!

Yes, Mary, I remember The Last Days of Pompeii, too; but I think I first (and second) saw it on early television.

Lorrie, I was in love with Randolph Scott, while we are sharing. Go away for a minute, guys! Shoo! Now, in addition to Roy Rogers and Tom Mix, there was someone else who passed in just the last few years and whom I was very fond of. Name just flew out the window. Now, here is my BIG confession. Be fair and let me know The Truth from each of you: I get nostalgic for the Music from those Saturday Mornings. So I have a CD I bring out from its hiding place and put on when I am by myself and remembering: it is called THE VERY BEST OF THE SONS OF THE PIONEERS and is put out by RCA and has "Cool Water" and "Tumbling Tumbleweeds" and "The Everlasting Hills of Oklahoma", etc. Puts a big smile in my heart.

Lou D: You are right on about that one! Ghastly! Made you wonder if they were On something!

Claire and whoever else has pictures or scrapbooks of old movie stars!!There are numerous places on the net to find out about the values and where you can trade them. Or where you might donate them! Just type in Silent Movies to get started.A plethora of old movie sites, collector clubs,too, old movie festivals where people trade and sell their collections and at the same time they run old movies!! Its great!I am looking up a URL for you as soon as I get done with the TH site. Be back!
Robby, have you looked at that picture of you that I have on the Chicago site? In Kitty O"Shea's? Biiiig scowl, there!! But we know you are a pussycat in real life!!
I didn't like the Saturday movies very much and my dad thought you shouldn't be shutting yourself in on a nice day. But, we did have big bands many time in downtown Indianapolis where I grew up. Three of our theatres in Indy have been renovated for quite a long time.The Circle, Indiana and the Keith. I haven't seen the Indiana Ballroom since its renovation but we danced there for grad dances and according to the pictures that I have seen, its just as beautiful now as then.
Jeryn,

you forgot to mention Columbus's best kept secret of The Southern Theatre. Its our best for wonderful sound.I don't particularly care for the Ohio unless I get a loge seat. Feel like I am falling out of the seats up higher. I swear they tilt forward about 10 degrees. Very uncomfortable! And the stage is almost as far away as where we sat in the Chicago Auditorium. In Atlanta there is the old Fox theatre which is an incredible place. I took a group there for a tour and was just amazed at what that building held. Many ballrooms plus that huge theatre.

Ann:

I thought I saw all the pictures that were taken of me in Chicago but I don't remember a "scowling pussycat."

Robby

Robby,

Its there!! I took it! and you scowled!! The pussycat part of your personality is not showing but we all know its there!!

Claire,

here is that

URL:http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/indexold.htm

Inside that site are many other sites linked. Thought you might like to peruse it.

Oh,rats, I tried this URL and it doesn't work, although I have the correct address so I suggest you try this:Type into your location space in the upper bar " The Silents Majority." That will take you to a search results page and you can just click on Silents Majority and bring the page right up.

Lorrie, is the book into movie,"Uncle Tom's Cabin"? It was first made into a movie in 1913.

This is such fun recalling old movie houses and favorite movie stars of old, let's keep it going! Talking about big-name bands, does anyone remember the old Aragon and Trianon ballrooms in Chicago? Those were the days when people danced! In each other's arms, of course!

Okay, let’s talk about some Books Into Movies! In order to keep a sort of sense of continuity, we’ll be discussing books that will be listed in different categories, starting with books written in the past by famous authors. Who can forget some of our best movies from authors like Henry James, Emily Bronte, H.G. Wells, etc.? Here’s a tentative list we’ll be following, please feel free to add your suggestions at any time.:

OLDER BOOKS By authors Jane Austen....................................Pride and Prejudice, etc. Henry James....................................Turn of the Screw (The Innocents) etc. H. G. Wells......................................War of the Worlds, etc. Count Tolstoy..................................War and Peace, Anna Karenina Mark Twain.....................................Huckleberry Finn, etc. Louisa Mae Alcott...........................Little Women

In the following weeks, we will discuss other categories, such as Books of the South, next, with comments about books by William Faulkner, and, of course, the gorgeous Gone With the Wind!

Then Books of Mystery, then Great Romantic Novels, and last, most recent novels that have been made int movies. I left the more modern books to the end because many of us are still in the process of either reading or on the waiting list of all these books.

I welcome any suggestions, and promise faithfully not to throw popcorn on you if I don’t like them.

Lorrie

Lorrie, don't forget the books of these authors which were made into movies: Daphne Du Maurier, John Steinbeck, the Bronte sisters, Mark Twain. Are you considering plays that were made into films like The Little Foxes by Lillian Hellman, I think it was?

One of my favorite movies when I was a kid was The Enchanted Cottage. If you've seen it, Lorrie, you will understand why.

Mal

Good suggestions, Mal! I think they did make a movie from Hellman's play, "The Little Foxes," with Bette Davis?

I haven't thought of "The Enchanted Cottage" for years! Was that the one with Dorothy McGuire and Robert Young? There was a real moral to that story, if I recall. Yes, I liked it., too!

Lorrie

Saw both of those. The 2 thought each other to be absolutely beautiful, and they really were not, in The Enchanted Cottage. We did not find out the truth until the end. Someone came by to visit them, did they not? And then we saw that we had been seeing each of them through Their eyes and not our own, as it were! I thought it was Tallulah Bankhead in The Little Foxes; but I have a messed up file up here in my memory banks!

has anyone read this book? it is very good

Oh, yes! I listened to the audio and the beauty of it took my breath away! It was like one long, quietly spoken poem.

And of course there's "The Secret Garden," which has also been made into a movie several times.

And none of them perfectly! But here, I have to admit, Margaret O'Brien did a better job as Mary than those who came after.

http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/indexold.htm

Mal, I loved "The Enchanted Cottage" when I first saw it as a teenager--but didn't know it was based on a book. Who was the author? Was the title the same?

In 1943, when I was 14 years old, I saw a movie that led to a lifetime of reading pleasure: "The Constant Nymph" (starring Charles Boyer and Joan Fontaine), based on the 1920s novel by the English writer Margaret Kennedy. Because I enjoyed that movie so much I wanted to read the book and found not only that one but many others by the same author, altogether 15 published between 1923 and 1961, all different, all good. I have enjoyed every re-reading through the years, and am always looking for, but never finding, someone else who has also read and enjoyed them.

I may not remember any vaudeville [I led a sheltered youth] but I do remember "The Enchanted Cottage". WAS it a book before? I want to know too.

Welcome, rebecca j! Yes, I read Snow Falling On Cedars and enjoyed it very much. I also saw the recent movie and thought they did a pretty good job with the story and especially the characterizations, but it tended to drag a bit in the middle.

I have a picture of you, Robby, which is ve-ry serious. But I have not published it here in SN! Did not think you would like it and it certainly does not reflect your pleasant personality!

Ann, do you know I have never been in the Southern Theatre but I do recall it went through a big rennovation a few years ago. I love the Ohio Theatre but agree, you do not want to sit too high! The loge is great; we had second row seats for the symphony for many years.

One of the movies that people seemed to love was Walt Disney's "Bambi", which was really nothing like the book, by Felix Salten. Disney made a cutesy movie out of a really dark allegory. The original should be read to find out what the author really meant.

Ricki D: Can you possibly find out a little more about those books of Margaret Kennedy's? I searched a little, but I don't think I'm using the right search engine. The Constant Nymph rings a faint bell somewhere. I'll bet other people have heard of this author. Anyone?

Ginger: Thank you for the link. I'm going there now.

Lou D: I'll bet that original Bambi was a treatise on the bloody sport of hunting, am I right?

Lorrie

I remember that wonderful movie The Constant Nymph, but do not recall the author at all. What are some of her other titles?

Lorrie, hunting was a minor part of the story, and hunters were not portrayed in a good light. Disney took a great many liberties with the story, but there were no light-hearted moments that I can recall. (It has been many years since I read the book.)

Movie Review: THE CONSTANT NYMPH

Starring: Joan Fontaine,Charles Boyer Released: 1943 Star Rating (of 4): *** Director: Edmund Goulding, Rated ? Fontaine is in top form as a young girl in love with a sophisticated musician, played smartly by Boyer. Top-notch performances by other cast members enhance this well-produced drama. Also with Alexis Smith, Brenda Marshall, Charles Coburn, Dame May Whitty, and Peter Lorre. Academy Award Nomination-Fontaine, best actress. 112 minutes b&w Copyright 1994 by Cineman Syndicate

Hmmmm. This is interesting. According to the Internet Movie DataBase, there were two versions before the Boyer one. The first one was in 1928. It was directed by Adrian Brunel and writing credits went to Adrian Brunel and Alma Reville. Only two characters are named: Louis Dodd and Tessa. BUT, if you go deeper, it gives two more writing credits, to Basil Dean (play) and Margaret Kennedy (also play) and(also novel)!

Next is a 1934 version, this one directed by our friend Basil Dean. The writing credits say Basil Dean and Dorothy Farnum. But then, when you go deeper, it says Basil Dean (play) (dialogue) and Margaret Kennedy (play) (novel) (dialogue). It's apparently the same story, since there is a Louis Todd (played by Brian Aherne) and a Tess Sanger.

Now the 1943 version was directed by Edmund Goulding. Writers are shown as good old Basil Dean (play) and Kathryn Scola. When you go deeper, Margaret Kennedy is added, but just for (play) and (novel). And the characters are Louis Dodd and Tessa Sanger.

SOOOOO, it sounds to me like Margaret Kennedy wrote a novel, Basil Dean adapted it into a play, and all these different people worked on the screenplay(s).

Jeryn:

Go ahead and publish the serious photo. I do have my serious moments you know!!

Robby

the url works if you type in only the address but it's limited to motion picture stuff.

Robby I've never seen your face with or without scowl or meow. Where does one go?

BEV my mom or someone labled some of these pics and almost all are autographed. Maybe we could identify yours by comparing them...the vaudville pics. Do you have a scanner or difital camera? I do. It's just a time consuming project but we could open a site together on it.

Do you know who this is -- in vaudville?

Claire

Please folks. Tell Claire how to find the photo of me (or of others). I don't know how to link her there.

Robby

I read them in droves as a child and then the movies took over. There were two by Jack London Call of the Wild and "White Fang" although the latter may not have been a movie. I wonder if Will James Smokey the cow horse ever made it to the screen. Of course LASSIE did, but how about LAD A DOG and other Terhune classics, now twenty bucks a piece at Amazon and elswhere. My daughter collects them and gave me FURTHER ADVENTURES OF LAD for xmas.

I remember Bambi. . . really anxiety provoking for a kid. I read it over and over.

Dickens OLIVER TWIST became OLIVER and of ORPHAN ANNIE a comic strip, became a theatrical musical and a movie..

I don't think I'd be interested in revisiting any of these though.

Claire

I got in on the tail end of this discussion and am not sure what photos Robby is talking about but here's one and you can see he's a very handsome man.

Robby .

I apologize if that's not the right one.

Ginny

That's a good one of Robbie... The one that I saved from the Gallery.

I found the site and entered the pics at Futures a whole batch of them, but they didn't have this one up. He really does look great here. a real cutie. (S) . . . . Claire

CLAIRE--

Yes, I do have a scanner. Right now I'm kind of swamped, but I've saved your e=mail address. Let's really think about this. I have both professional photos and snapshots. It would be fun to do a "do you know this person" page. I wonder if anybody would even notice!

I just skimmed back through the posts, and was happy to see my favorite book mention by more than one person. The Prince of Tides, by Pat Conroy, was an awesome book! I finished it, and immediately read it over again, and enjoyed it even more the second time. Unfortunately, the movie did not follow the main theme of the book.

As much as I like and admire Barbra Streisand, I will always be disappointed about her buying the rights to the book, and then changing the story. Obviously, she knew she wasn't right for the part of the Southern mother, so she inflated the role of the psychiatrist for herself, and made that as part central story--- whereas it was only secondary in the book.

Another book I enjoyed alot was, The Bonfire of the Vanities, by Tom Wolfe. The movie was a total catastrophe! Painful to even watch it, knowing that it could have been great film.

To Lorrie, MaryPage, and Texas Songbird: Margaret Kennedy's novels are The Ladies of Lyndon (1923), The Constant Nymph (1924), Red Sky at Morning (1927), The Fool of the Family (1930), Return I Dare Not (1933), A Long Time Ago (1932), Together and Apart (1937), The Midas Touch (1939), The Feast (1949), Lucy Carmichael (1951), Troy Chimneys (1952), Act of God (1955), The Wild Swan (1957), A Night in Cold Harbor (1960), and The Forgotten Smile (1964). (The English-edition title of Act of God is The Oracles, and that of The Wild Swan is The Heroes of Clone.) She also wrote some nonfiction: The Mechanised Muse, Jane Austen, The Outlaws on Parnassus, and a World War II memoir called Where Stands a Winged Sentry.

I don't know how many of the books are still in print, but some may still be available in libraries or in second-hand book stores. I've always been grateful to that 1943 movie for introducing me to this excellent author (wish I could see the two older movies as well, but don't know if they were preserved).

Texas Songbird, and Ricki D: Wow! That was some research! Now we know, and I think we'll be mentioning Kennedy's books/plays later on. Thank you both for your great informative posts. Tomorrow we're going to start talking about some books written years ago that were made into movies. I'm makeing a sort of index that I'll put up above with several names, just take you pick!

Lorrie

Some critics have always ascertined that it's almost impossible to make a really good movie from a book, and many directors agreed. Otto Preminger might have been right. The legendary film director once said that great novels can only be turned into bad movies, and bad novels can be turned into great movies. To wit:

Look at the American Film Institute's recent list of the 100 Greatest American Movies of All Time, and compare it with the Modern Library' s picks for the top 100 English-language novels published in this century. Of the 100 titles on the Modern Library's list, 70 have been made into films, either for theatrical release or television. Granted, some won Academy Awards in various categories: "The Grapes of Wrath" in 1940, "All the King's Men" in 1949, "From Here to Eternity" in 1953, "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" in 1969 and "Howards End" in 1992. But only four titles - "The Grapes of Wrath," "The Maltese Falcon, " "A Clockwork Orange" and "From Here to Eternity" - made both the film and novel lists.

Okay, everybody! See that list of authors above? Every one has had a movie done from a book they wrote, and we'd like to get your reaction to it, or them. Pick any name or names, and let us know what you think! We'll be changing the categories every few days, so have at it, all!

Id like to start with Henry James. Did any of you ever read "The Turn of the Screw?" When it was mad into a movie, it was called The Innocents" but I've never been sure that the movie carried over James' subtle horror and sense of impending evil. I think I liked the book better in this case. Anyone?

How about Pride and Prejudice, Little Women, or one of my all-time favorites, Wuthering Heights! Let's hear from you all!

What about To Kill a Mockingbird? I think that was an outstanding book and an even more extraordinary movie. And the movie follows the book perfectly. AND it was perfectly cast. What more can we ask?

Although I do have to admit that I had seen the movie several times before I ever read the book. I was substitute teaching one time and the kids had stuff they were doing and didn't need my help. I found a copy of To Kill a Mockingbird in a bookshelf and read it -- like in a couple of hours! I was amazed at how closely it followed the movie (or to be more accurate -- and chronological -- how closely the movie followed the book).

Actually, I haven't seen very many of the movies on the list, Lorrie, and (I'm ashamed to admit) I haven't read ALL of those books, either! I guess my contribution will have to be movie trivia that I bone up on.

I think Catch 22 fits into that same category of good books that were the basis for good movies- but often they are good in different ways- each is a art form unto itself but using the same or similar material creates exceptional work in both genres.

All Quiet on the Westen front- another one.

The Good Earth

The Yearling

Tortilla Flat

A River Runs Throught IT

The Razor's Edge

Lost Horizons

The Last Picture Show

Lots of them

But I don't think any movie should try to recreate the book or that we should judge them on if they do or not.

We ought to judge them as books and as movies- separate entitiies.

One of my favorite books The Heart is a Lonely Hunter

was also a good movie

But I couldn't really enjoy it as I saw the movie after reading the book and couldn't forget the parts of the book not stressed or left out of the movie- parts that appealed to me so much when I read the book but didn't really fit into the movie producer's and director's vision of the work.

Texas Songbird: Mockingbird was a a great movie, I agree, one of the few that seemed even better than the book, to me. I think it was Gregory Peck's understated performanc, don't you?

Jim, all of those are excellent suggestions for a discussion like this. How do you feel about teachers who use a movie as a substitute in the classroom for the book itself? Incidentally, didn't Carson McCullers write The Heart is a Lonely Hunter?

So far nobody has been able to tell us what was the very first book to be made into a movie?

Lorrie

Henry James's The Turn of the Screw was dramatized on TV back in the late 1950s in a version that I found really frightening--more so than the book itself.

Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights has never been successfully turned into a movie, in my opinion, but there is one recent version, starring Juliet Binoche (I think) that struck me as less bad than the others.

If you read a scary book and Then see the movie, it does not seem too scary. But if you see the movie First, then it can scare you to death! I find, in these years of my dottage, if I have a scary video and have not read the book (if there is one), it helps to turn the sound off in the worst parts. That way I can See what is going on without hearing all the music that makes my heart pound so hard and threatingly. There has never been a Wuthering Heights made that came anywhere close to what I was feeling all through the book. Hollywood does not do Jane Austen properly, though certainly entertainingly, but the British do very well with her books. I do not favor Henry James, Joseph Conrad, or H.G. Wells. I read both of the Tolstoy books And later saw each movie. I thought the movies extremely well done, but, of course, the books Could not be completely reproduced on film and the books had much greater educational value, in addition to the entertainment features. I NEVER recommend seeing a movie Rather Than reading a book. I think Huckleberry Finn and Little Women have been very well done. Again, nothing beats the books themselves. I do not understand the uproar over Huckleberry Finn. It was my reading that Twain was Despising those who did not think of Afro-Americans as human beings and fully the equals, if Not The Betters, of whites! Maybe I fail reading comprehension! Lorrie, I do not Know the answer, and cannot hazard a guess. As to the first movie made from a book, I mean. Lovely site, though!

I am just reading Angela's Ashes. I understand it is now a movie. Has anyone read the book and/or seen the movie?

Shirley n. You can bet your boots we're going to have Angela's ashes on our list coming up!

Mary Page and Ricki D: You didn't like Laurence Olivier's "Heathcliffe?" I thought he was great, and I felt the movie caught the moodiness of those moors well. Of course, it had been a long time since I read the book and saw the movie.

Conrad was what I call a heavy writer. Many people rave over his Heart of Darkness, which Coppola made into Apocalypse Now, also acclaimed as a great cinematic achievement, but I found it too depressing.

Oh, well, different strokes, and all that. I don't understand all that uproar about Huckleberry Finn, either. It seems like nowadays everybody is so politically correct, we're losing a sense of honesty.

Lorrie

Hey!!! I almost missed it! I was checking back through some of the postings, and I notice there was a very brief one from Ann Alden. She was the first person to find out what was the first book made into a movie!! It was Uncle Tom's Cabin, by Harriet Beecher Stowe, as you all know, and was made into what was known as a "moving picture" in those days. (1913)

Well done, Anne, I'm so sorry I didn't notice that sooner! You win the extra-large jumbo bowl of popcorn and you don't have to share it with anyone. You can eat it all yourself!

Lorrie

That is the thing. I don't do depressing if I can help it.

Oliv1er Was a great Looking Heathcliff. But there was Something about the incredible PASSION between those two that just never shows up on the screen. And I am Not speaking here of Sex. They not only do, but they far Overdo sex these days. No, I am speaking of something far, far beyond the sexual. And the moors themselves, and of course, I HAD to get myself to Haworth and See the very moors and the parsonage and the whole 9 yards, well, the moors themselves do not do justice to the emotions regarding those moors that run through the book. I believe Emily Bronte was the great genius of the 3 girls, and her romanticism cannot be matched Anywhere! I read the book when I was 13 and was quite, quite overcome by it. With it?

Personally, I don't think that is much of a prize, Anne. But you may have some of my special truffle chocolates!

I noted your response earlier, but assumed it was wrong since Lorrie did not say it was right.

Well, she must have had her head in her Monster bowl of popcorn.

Speaking of Olivier, does anyone here remember Rebecca? By Daphne Du Maurier? Now there was a movie even better than the book, I thought! Laurence Olivier was a wonderful Max DeWinter, and oh, that creepy Judith Anderson!

Lorrie

Pat: I've been looking back for your suggestion. I missed it? Mind saying again?

I'll second that, Lorrie! I just loved Rebecca the movie. Started me reading du Maurier's books and I think I read them all after that! Still think Rebecca was the best.

Wuthering Heights... I must have been about 13 when I read that too, MaryPage! I just adored it. The Olivier/Oberon movie is good but I have to agree, somehow doesn't really capture the total mood and essence of the book.

What about Jane Eyre? Seems they make a movie of that about every year. I know I saw a made-for-TV [I think] version just last year? It wasn't too bad. I still see Joan Fontaine as the best Jane but George C. Scott made a super Mr. Rochester.

Do you ever read novels and try to picture the characters by choosing movie stars to fill the roles?!

Angela's Ashes.....I read the book and saw the movie. I thought the movie was well done, it didn't quite capture the wretchedness and humor of Mccorts written word.

Wuthering Heights.....Athough I do think Olivier and Oberon somewhat brought Heathcliff and Cathy to life, I agree that the chemistry was a bit off. Oberon's Cathy seemed to lack passion. I think Vivian Leigh would have made a wonderful Cathy. The sparks between them would have ignited for sure.

Oh, by the way, I've brought the chocolate covered raisens. They're in that great big purple bowl in the corner.

Suzy

MaryPage, I agree 1000 percent with all that you wrote about the moors and the passion between Heathcliff and Cathy--just not there in the Olivier version of Wuthering Heights. The newer versions tried harder, and also included the next generation that the Olivier version ignored, but were still not up to the book. I first read the book when I was 14 and still remember the thrill.

Jeryn, you asked about reading a book and thinking of the appropriate actors and actresses for it. It always seemed to me that Gone With the Wind was written for Clark Gable, Vivien Leigh, Leslie Howard, and Olivia de Havilland. I simply can't imagine anyone else playing their parts!

Re Angela's Ashes, I read the book but haven't seen the movie yet. I gather that it's a pretty accurate adaptation of the book (according to Frank McCort), which critics have found very dismal. I would think (I do plan to see the movie, but haven't yet) that telling the story would remove from it that charm that made the book work--that Irish story-telling that can make the bleakest situations "entertaining."

Phooey! I thought this was going to be modern movies and books. Silly me.

Sage

Jeryn: I think everybody makes those conjectures when they finish a book that they liked. I hought Orson Welles was pretty good in the original Jane Eyre, he made a good Rochester.

Ricki D: I agree about Clark Gable and Vivien Leigh. It's almost as though the movie was written fpr them!

Suzy Q: Wow! Chocolate covered raisins!! I get first dibs! C'mon in and pull up a chair!

Purple sage: Hang in there--we'll be talking about "modern" books in a while. We'll be replacng the list above every few days. Okay?

I didn't realize we were discussing just those books and movies in the heading- thought they were only examples.

It does seem to help if we narrow the discussion down but that is quite a large list.

If we are doing War of the Worlds we really need to throw in the Orson Welles Mercury Radio theatre production.

I recall hearing it at the time and I imagine other SeniorNetters do too.

Jim, that list above is not written in stone. it's simply a tool to keep the discussion a little more focused. We'll be changing that list anyway, every few days. You made some excellent suggestions which I'm going to post later.

But that Mercury Theatre thing by Orson Welles: Remember it? We lived it! I remember seeing our neighbors on their knees praying because they were sure the end had come--and I can't recall any group of people being so terrified, unless you count the times we'd listen to "Lights Out" on the radio. That program of Wells' was talked about, and still is, for years!

Lorrie

Talking about how hard it is to make a good movie from a great book, in an interview in The Village Voice, author Russell Banks says:

”When a filmaker adapts a novel he usually borrows part, or all, of only three aspects of the book—plot, characters, and locale. What he leaves behind is the moral center of the novel, which, for the serious novelist, is the only truly essential element; it’s what gives meaning to character, plot, and locale.”

Banks goes on to say that that is probably why novels without a moral center make easy and often entertaining movies. Witness the films made from books by Michael Crichton, Tom Clancy, Stephen King, et al. “Novels with a moral center usually fail in films," he goes on, “because they tell us what we know is true but don’t want to hear,and make difficult and often depressing films. One need only to recall Bonfire of the Vanities, for example.”

How true!

Oh, Lorrie and Mary, I am stuffed with all that popcorn and truffles. There goes my diet? Thank you, thank you! I had wondered if anyone saw my guess on the first book into a movie and then, just forgot about it. I think I will put some butter on this popcorn. That will make the truffles even taste better than they do. Are your truffles from Sees Candies in California? The best there are!! Yum,yum, munch, munch! What movie is this?

About movies failing to follow the book. Its hard to put in every inuendo that the author does with words. I too read "Wuthering Heights" around age 13 and thought the movie just didn't give us the depth of the writing. I have also read "Angeles Ashes" and heard McCourt interviewed about it. He is satisfied with the outcome of the movie. Why not! All that money! After such abject poverty! I also read "Tis" which I loved just for the Irish story telling genius of this man. I grew up in an Irish Catholic family and I could just identify with all of his shenanigans and their repurcussions. A riot! Especially the one about using his neighbor's electricity. That story was a classic and had me laughing aloud. 'Nuff said, now, where are those chocolate covered raisins.

I heard the Orson Welles radio production of War of the Worlds the last two Hallowe'ens because WAMU in this area gives four hours of old time goodies every Sunday night.

Robby

Ann: I'm so glad you came in here. I feel like an idiot having missed your answer about the first book made into a movie! There's been so much talk about 'Tis and Angela's ashes, I think we better put those on our list that goes up again this weekend.

Lorrie

Jim Olsem you are quite right a book is a book and a movie is a movie. They are different,and have their own merits, but its a good subject to have a friendly discussion. I've read 5 of the above books but some so long ago I can't recall them vividly. For some reason most of the authors and characters names do not stick with me very long.The book "pride and the prejudice" helped me to better understand the movie. No producer or director could possibly afford to include all of the parts in a book. It would be too long as well. You can fold up a book and go back to it when you have the urge but to watch a movie more than 2 hrs would get most of us antsy. If a director is capable of capturing the jist of a book then it is usually a great success. Movies and books are made to educate and delight the mind. Would someone make some more popcorn! Rich

>Are your truffles from Sees Candies in California? The best there are!!<<

AMEN!!! Sees is definitely the best.

Good Heavens, Rich, are we out of popcorn already? We'll make some more but in the meantime have some of Suzy's chocolate covered raisins!

I think you said it well when you compare reading a book to attending a movie. As you said, you can always put the book down for a while if you tire of it temporarily, but you're more or less stuck in a theater for 2-3 hours!

Lorrie

We need an official popcorn maker! Ginny, can you undertake that job? I'd ask Mary Page, but she's got her face in those truffles of hers, and besides, she can't stand the smell!

Robby, do you remember the original radio broadcast of Orson Welles' War of the Worlds? If so, did the people in your area believe it implicitly? In some areas there were near traffic jams because people were fleeing! It was that real.

I saw the movie, and I was bored stiff. But then sci-fi has that effect on me. I think Raymone Massey was in that movie.

Lorrie

Yes, Lorrie, I remember the original broadcast (I am that ancient, you know) and some folks believed it but I lived in a rural area. There were no traffic jams, etc. and we only knew how it had affected the populace when we heard the news the next morning. The odd part was that all those people never had the presence of mind to move the dial to another station and would then find it was only a play.

Robby

Perhaps people were a lot, lot more gullible then! I think many of us had a tendency to consider the newpaper and the radio news as impeccable sources and wouldn't dream of questioning them.

Lorrie

Now we're sceptical about everything.

Robby

RichMcC -- Your statement that "a book is a book and a movie is a movie" is also true for plays and movies. I usually like the play better, but not always. (And of course, it depends on who the cast was/is in each of them.) But I just look at them as two different animals. That's what I think we have to do with books and movies.

Does anyone remember The Caine Mutiny? THAT certainly had a moral "center" but turned itself into a pretty terrific movie. Why not, with Humphrey Bogart!

The difficulty of capturing the moral "center" of a story may be why the movie made of Snow Falling on Cedars, while VERY well done, seems to drag--especially to those who have never read the book. I am sitting here dying laughing! As a typo, I wrote Snor Falling on Cedars! Wellllll, it cracked ME up! Hahahahaha!

[Now if I can just get out of here without touching the dern food...]

Lorrie, yes, I Adored Rebecca, and still do. I felt the first movie was the better one. Jeryn, yes, all of the Jane Eyre movies have been grand, but I liked the last one, was it on A&E, best because it was quite a lot longer and gave her early childhood, as well. No, I have never read a book and thought of a movie star for the hero or heroine, but I sure have figured which stars should which roles whenever I hear that a book I have read is being made into a movie. Unlike the rest of you, I never thought Vivian Leigh was Scarlett as I knew her, at all. I thought she played her as a rather trashy Southern Belle. Maybe she was meant to be just that; but I preferred Olivia de Haviland as Melanie. Oh, and I was Madly in love with Leslie Howard! Never could stand Clark Gable: he looked such a con man. Anne, my chocolate truffles are Not from Sees! Sorry about that. I am remiss, it seems. Mine are from Belgium. The rum and brandy ones are Really good, though! Don't you want to try them?

Jeryn: What an interesting sound that must make, snores falling on cedars!

Texas Songbird: Yes, I'm more and more of the opinion that a book is a book and a movie something else again. Still, it's interesting to see how the treatment of a novel in cinema form differs. Also, I wonder about how successful movies have been that were taken from stage plays--Shakespeare comes to mind immediately, I think that most of his plays that were filmed were very successful. I'm thinking of Julius Caesar, and of course, Hamlet!

Mary Page: And another thing---Vivien Leigh told someone she hated doing love scenes with Gable in GWTW, because he had such bad breath!

Lorrie

SONGBIRD: You said, "Your statement that "a book is a book and a movie is a movie" is also true for plays and movies. I usually like the play better, but not always."

Have you noticed that it's easier to tell when a movie is from a play script than if it's from a book. There's just something...different and unique...about movies that are from plays...even if you don't know originally that it was a play first.

I think Russell Banks may be right when dealing with some popular and even run of the mill movies but great films like great books do have a moral center as Jeryn points out.

In terms of the books listed above the Heart of Darkness

and the modern film adapted from it Apocolypse Now do have strong moral centers.

Hey Jeryn, was that a freudian slip or was that a freudian slip? You just told us it was boring or draggy and then you titled it Snor Falling on Cedars I love it! LOL!!
I once served as a "prompter" for several plays after helping one of the main characters learn her lines. I remember doing "SNAFU" the play and then seeing the movie later on and yes, they were very different. I, of course, liked the play better. Can't remember the titles of the others but I will if I stay in here long enough. Later!

My popcorn has dissappeared once again. Do you suppose I ate it? Nooooo! not me! Yes, SEE'S Candies are the best!

>Hey Jeryn, was that a freudian slip or was that a freudian slip? You just told us it was boring or draggy and then you titled it Snor Falling on Cedars I love it! LOL!!<<

ROFL. Great catch!

Yes, Jim, and if you want to go way back, both the book and the movie "ALL Quiet on the Western Front," a decidedly anti-war statement, had a strong moral core.

Bev S: Do you think maybe it's easier to tell a movie from a play beause there's so much more dialogue? Out of necessity, perhaps.

Ann: More popcorn on the way! You are actually in the home of the bottomless blue bowl! Wish I could say that about Mary Page's truffles!

Lorrie

Maybe it's because a play is already set up as a visual form, whereas a book is more of a mental form. It's true that the writer is wanting to have the reader "see" things in his head; he/she does that by describing things. The play or movie shows things. A book can also be much more interior -- that is, getting into a person's head and telling the reader what the person is thinking. Unless it's a break-the-fourth-wall kind of thing, that doesn't happen in plays or movies. The actor must show, through his/her skill, what is happening in the mind.

Lorrie...I think Songbird has a good explanation for it. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but yes, the author of a play already has it in visual form. There's also something about the dialog which just seems different to me and I know that on more than one occasion I've been watching a movie and thinking to myself "I'll bet this was a play first." I've been right every time.

Me, too, Bev. And how many times have you come in during the middle of a movie on TV and said to yourself, "I bet so-and-so wrote that," and IF they show the credits you find out you're right? Some writers, like Tennessee Williams and Truman Capote just have a style about them -- and often write about the same kinds of subjects -- so you can recognize them when you see something they've written even if you're not familiar with that particular work.

I agree that some of Tennessee William's plays dwell on a repeated theme.

My favorite "Night of the Iguana" I think is set off by itself more than the others and is a good example of a Movie that did as well or even better than the play in terms of its artistic merits.

Hey- the popcorn is all over the floor- whose turn it is to run the carpet sweeper around?

The hostess?

Not my job vacuming, just eating.

Hey, Jim, don't give anybody any ideas! Besides, proper guests don't spill their popcorn! Lorrie

Ginger: Oh, yes, it is your job! You have also been appointed official popcorn=maker, and when you've run the sweeper around, you can keep filling that blue bowl. Mary Page, who is over there in the corner stuffing her face, will pay you off in truffles! hahaha

Seriously, Jim, Texas Songbird, and Bev. S: I like what you wrote about plays into movies, and recognizing playwrights, etc. Here’s an interesting note: One of my favorite books, “Catcher in the Rye” by J. D. Salinger, was never made into a movie, although some of this author’s works were adapted for the screen. “Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut” was made into a 1949 movie, “My Foolish Heart,” with Dana Andrews and Susan Hayward. In 1995 an Iranian film titled “Pari” combined Salinger’s novel “Franny and Zooey” and “A Perfect Day for Bannafish.” Surprising! But Salinger has never sold the film rights to “Catcher in the Rye,” to the dismay of many who believe it would translate well to film. He zealously guards his privacy and his work, and he sued, and won, an Internet Web Site devoted to Holden Caulfield, and also successfully brought a suit against Random House for a biography. A very private man, indeed!

Lorrie

Stephen Birmingham, in his book THE REST OF US: THE RISE OF AMERICA'S EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS, tells the story of young Samuel Goldfish, a successful glove salesman, who married Blanche Lasky, a vaudeville player, and one day early in the marriage they went to the movies which were "shorts." Samuel was captivated by Mary Pickford and made a decision to make movies himself; however he wanted to make a long one (4 reels or longer). With his $10,000 savings plus some savings of his wife's family, he hired Cecil DeMille, a friend,to direct, bought the movie rights to a stage play called The Squaw Man, and boarded a train for Flagstaff, AZ where they planned to film the movie; however, no one had informed them that Flagstaff was in the mountains and arriving in the middle of a snow blizzard, they returned to the train and headed for Los Angeles, rented a barn, bought cameras, put Cecil's wife and daughter in the film with an actor by the name of Dustin Farnum (from whom Dustin Hoffman got his name) and made their film which, at first, was disastrous as the images jumped chaotically all over the screen. However, the film was taken to a Philadelphia filmaker who corrected it and the movie was a huge success when it premiered in NYC.

Humorously, DeMille journeyed to a studio in upstate NY to learn how to direct a film and reported back to the team that it was a snap - all one needed were jodhpurs, riding boots and a megaphone!

As Goldfish said to his wife early in the adventure, "We've never produced a picture, DeMille has never directed one, We should be great!" That was the birth of Paramount Pictures and the Squaw Man came to the screen in 1914 - predating the Birth of a Nation --which is considered the first "long" movie ever produced.

Ella: Wow! Now that is interesting. Didn't you just love that anecdote about Cecil D. DeMille? Great research there, Ella!

Lorrie

Fascinating story, Ella! Thanks! Lorrie, I feel certain I saw SOMEthing by Salinger done on television. Not Catcher. Not Franny and Zooey. But SOMEthing about the, wasn't it Glass?, family. I used to read all of Salinger in The New Yorker decades ago, and I remember being surprised when I saw the, as it remember it, small bit on tv. Gosh I wish I had a half way decent memory!

Boy, you all have such a lot of interesting comments! This is a territory ripe for discussing, evidently. I'm glad you all enjoyed my typo: "Snor Falling on Cedars!" I want to reiterate, however, I really DID enjoy that movie a lot but it helped to have read the book first.

I've been racking my brain to think of a book-into-movie where I enjoyed the movie MORE than the book. I've thought of two. The 1969 [approximately] version of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet for one. Vivid vivid movie brought that play to life like nobody's business! And Not Without My Daughter by Betty Mahmoody [sp?] which was a so-so book but a real attention getter as a movie.

I'll sidestep the popcorn on the floor since I don't eat it... heh heh

Tomorrow or Saturday were going to put up another list, this time a list of more contemporary books made into movies. But before we do, doesn't anyone rmember seeing the movie Anna Karenina? I thought Vivian Leigh was so good in that, and of course Ralph Richardson was a menacing husband. such a tragic story!!

Lorrie

Jeryn: I liked Shakespeare's Hamlet, with Laurence Olivier, too!

Mmmmmmmmmm, I'm sure I saw that Hamlet but don't remember it. What year was it made? What did you think of Mel Gibson's version? Kevin Kline's version?? Is there anyone who hasn't done Hamlet?! <laugh>

I did see Anna Karenina with Vivian Leigh... a looong time ago. I liked anything with Vivian Leigh in it; such a super actress she was. Would like to see that movie again...

About enjoying the movie more than the book: first, Cold Comfort Farm was one where I learned of the existence of the book from seeing the movie and really enjoyed them both equally. Both are great fun! Then I watched a movie on cable called Haunted because Kate Beckinsale (of Cold Comfort Farm) starred in it. That was an entertaining movie (amazingly solid ghosts), so I got the book from the library--and it was awful, as well as very different from the movie. I was really surprised.

Does anyone remember the name of the actor that played the first Fletcher Christian in the old black and white Mutiny on the Bounty with Charles Laughton?

I though Peck did an admirable job as Ahab. And having, as a young high school student, read Captain from Castile I was amazed to see the movie only did the first third of the book and then stopped, just dead stopped.

I also was a fan of Catcher in the Rye to this day I pin rather then write quotes etc. on the back of one of my bedroom doors. Seems to me I am remembering that most schools baned the book...maybe that is why they never risked making it into a movie... there was already contraversy and the movie could therefore loose money.

Wasn't Clark Gable Fletcher Christian in the 1930s Mutiny on the Bounty?

That's what I remember, too. Clark Gable in Mutiny on the Bounty with Charles Laughton as Captain Bly.

Today i was talking to a neighbor, and she (knowing that I sometimes watch old, old movies on TV,) asked me to tape anything I saw on clara Bow and Jean Harlow. My Gosh, she must think I'm more ancient than I am! Jean Harlow I could remember, but Clara Bow??? Isn't that going way back?

Lorrie

Honestly Clark Gable! I know it was in black and white but somehow I remember Fletcher as having blond hair and a piece fell across his eyes. It must have been a very young Gable before he got so hard looking with all those lines in his forhead.

OOps, looks like that post I did previously got lost -- the one about Charles Laughton and Clark Gable being in the 1935 version of Mutiny on the Bounty and Trevor Howard and Marlon Brando being in the 1962 version. I wonder what else was lost that I posted today?

It looks like a lot of our posts got lost! Ah, well, such are the vagaries of Fate. Anyhow, I wanted to let you all know that we'll be changing our list above tomorrow. Because so many of you wrote asking about more recent books made into movies, I thought we could discuss some of them now. This is not a complete list,, by any means, only very recent books. Pick one or two, or all, and post your opinion on it, even if you haven't seen the movie yet. Remember the list is not permanent, we'll be changing categories from time to time. Keep checking in.

Lorrie

Okay, all you wonderful readers! We've got a brand new list to choose from, a list of recent books that were made into movies. "Prince of Tides" isn't as recent as some, but it was such a good book, I thought I'd mention it. I was very disappointed in the movie--I think they left out some very significant parts, and overplayed the part of the psychiatrist too much, as somebody in here has already remarked. But what a good book! Conroy also wrote another book into movie, all about the Citadel, a southern military academy. Conroy's way of describing the marshy, wind-swept sand dunes and the beach area where most of his settings are, is superb! Comments?

How about the others up on that list? Take your pick, and let us hear from you!

Lorrie

Oh, I agree with you on Prince of Tides, Lorrie! Book was fascinating in a psycho kind of way but the movie was tame and colorless, disappointing. I kept waiting for that tiger scene, ewwwwww!

I've read Angela's Ashes and can't imagine a movie capturing that essence of light heartedness in the face of abject misery. I hope someone else will go see it and report back; I just don't really want to see that one. I pick and choose my movies but will read most anything... hahaha!

I did not see The Great Santini, another Conroy movie, but did see Conrack a long time ago and thought it was brilliant.

I have just read excerpts from Tuesdays with Morrie, but thought the TV movie of it was superb. If Jack Lemmon doesn't get an Emmy for his performance, there's no justice!

I too thought Conrack was brilliant and would like to see it again.

Of the new list above, I thought The Horse Whisperer was a simple story with a happy ending and gorgeous scenery. Was extremely disappointed with the book, which I read because I had enjoyed the movie--and wish I hadn't. IMO, this is certainly one case where the movie was better in all ways

Jeryn, Songbird, and RickiD: hi, again, all you faithful followers. It looks like we're all in agreement with the movie version of "Prince of Tides," I wish I could comment on some of the others, but frankly, I haven't seen some of these movies. I usuall wait and rent them, but they're still pretty new. I am watching a tape of Tuesdays with Morrie, and so far, I love it!

Lorrie

Ricki D. I enjoyed Horse Whisperer also.

when making the movie the horse whisperer. In the book the stallion kills the hero in the end. not so in the movie. . . only the end of a love affair.The masses like a happy ending.

Claire

Horse Whisperer......Yes, the movies ending was changed. My take on the ending of the book was that our hero allowed the horse to trample him. The movie was beautiful to watch, and the dance beween Redford and Thomas was lovely. IMO the movie was a story about the horse, the book was a love story. I liked he movie, but LOVED the book. My imagined chemistry between the two characters was so much more believable in the book. I do believe when you see a movie before reading the book, it always spoils it just a little.

Suzy

Ricci D As far as "The Horse Whisperers" I read the book quite a while ago and I told my wife they should make a movie out of that book. I have to say that I enjoyed both the movie and the book. The movie's ending was better! Being of Irish descent and poor with an alcoholic father I can relate very well with McCourt in Angele's Ashes,a truly sad and repeated tale. I didn't enjoy"Tis" if he mentioned one more time about his bad teeth and eyes I was going to throw the book away. He made a slight inference to a dentist while in the army but he never said if he ever got them fixed.I think Angele's Ashes was a far better book. One thing someone mentioned before was stealing electricity! Well, I can remember as a child in a South Boston tenement. I was the youngest of 11 children.We lost the first girl in child birth and John died of blood poisening at the age of 7 yrs.We got evicted and had to move because my older brothers were useing my fathers table saw to make wall lamps to sell on Broadway. They would plug into the landlords hall light to run the saw and got caught. I have yet to see the movie.Did any one ever read"1916" by Morgan Llywelyn it is a fictional,but very plausible account of The Irish Rebellion and I recommend it if you would like to try to understand what is going on over there....Rich McC

I vote The Horse Whisperer as the only case I can remember Ever where I liked the movie Better Than the book! The book seemed much more immoral and I kept wanting them to Stop! The movie was more decent. As for Prince of Tides, I enjoyed the movie, but the book was much, much better. And Conrack was my favorite of all the books he has ever written. But wasn't the book titled "The Water is Wide", or something like that? The movie was GREAT, but the book was one of those that really should be immortal. I have read 3 of the other books listed above, but not yet seen the movies. Saving up for the home videos!

I agree 100% with Prince of Tides. I loved that book so much I read it in the car while we were doing sightseeing in Hawaii because I just couldn't put the book down! The movie as a stand-along thing was a good movie, but as an adaptation of the book, it was a tremendous disappointment.

It was the same with Tuesdays with Morrie. I thought Jack Lemmon was superb. I wouldn't fault a single thing with the movie, except that there was something about Morrie's message that came across more forcibly in the book.

As for Angela's Ashes, I haven't seen it yet. I am prepared for a long, bleak look at life in abject poverty in Northern Ireland. I know Frank McCort is pleased with it, but I also know that a movie that simply depicts the incidents that happened can't possibly bring the kind of cock-eyed Irish humor and optimism that McCort brought to the telling of his story.

I may be out of line here because I'm not adhering to the list above, but... One of the best movies I've ever seen taken from a book, that is, was The Day of the Jackal about a plot to assassinate DeGaulle. It followed the book exactly. There was a remake of the movie with Bruce Willis, which I didn't see, but I'll bet it wasn't as good as the first. One of the worst movies (from a book) was The Deep. Actually it wasn't such a bad movie, if you hadn't read the book by Peter Benchley. My complaint is that they changed the character played by Eli Wallach from a "good guy" to a "bad guy". Now, I say, what nerve. These are rather old movies, but does anyone remember them?

Mem - I'm sorry, I haven't seen any of those movies mentioned.

Recently I saw The Cider House Rules and can recommend it highly. The location was beautiful, like stepping back 75 years or so and I understand it was made in Vermont! I always have liked Michael Caine's movies though and I think I've seen just about all of them. I am 50th on the list at my library to get the book, so people are interested!

I did not like the book Tuesdays with Morrie - we read it here together in one of our discussions. I thought it was full of sentiments we have all heard before and I didn't like the same old, same old stuff; nothing new there. I doubt if I go to the movie.

Both the movie and the book - Horse Whisperer - were enjoyable!

WELL!! I feel like I was late for my own tea party! This is absolutely wonderful, to see you all posting here! Mary Page, I have to confess something. I didn't read The Horse Whisperer! But I loved the movie, so from what you say, I didn't miss much.

Bev S. I couldn't agree more about The Prince of Tides. I was so disappointed in the movie. And I also like Jack Lemmon, but think the book was better.

I haven't seen Angela's Ashes yet, but I loved the book.

Lorrie

mem: You're not a bit out of line here, any and all books that were made into movies is what we talk about here. I just put the list above as a sort of guideline. I saw both versions of The Jackal, and the first was by far the better of the two. I liked it a lot, I think it was Edward Fox who played the lead. Stayed right with the book plot. Lorrie

Rich McCall: What a sad, sad tale of your childhood in South Boston. I think when we start to talk about the Depression days, some of the stories we could tell would match somewhat the things McCourt wrote about in Angela's Ashes.

Lorrie

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!

Welcome to this discussion. It's so good to be back and hear from you! Its been a long wait and we never gave up seeing you in here when the Books folder was repaired!!

Ok, everyone, here's the best line in one movie that I saw recently. Does anyone know what the movie is?

Every family has its ups and downs!

The line was just delivered perfectly and just rolled me on the ground!

Oh, Ann, thank you so much for the welcome back letter! I was so afraid we'd lost our Books Into Movies forever, but no fear! Could that line have been from "The Munsters?" hahaha

Lorrie

One of my favorite movies that was made from a book is The English Patient. As far as i could see, the story line ran identical in the movie to the book, and in some ways, the visual impact was greater! I loved them both! Anyone else?

I loved McCourt's Angela's Ashes when we read it, here in the Book Club. Saw the movie recently and thought they did a wonderful job with it. (I did not like the casting of Angela...she just did not fit in the mind picture I had drawn of her.) The movie followed the book very well, for the most part. The music score was fantastic and I have it on my wish list!

I too, was very disappointed with the movie made of Prince of Tides. The book was marvelous...but I didn't feel the depth of it was carried over in the movie. The best part of the movie was Nick Nolte...I could spend 2 hrs just looking at him! (BG) Have always loved his work!

Eddie

Hi, everyone...just stopped by to put my head in and got stuck in the popcorn on the floor.

I think books are better than movies. Sometimes I think they just use the title from the book and stick it on a random movie! Forrest Gump, for example: the book is hilarious. The movie is sentimental. Circle of Friends rewrote the ending and removed too much of the backstory of the characters. But I love the book.

On the list, I haven't read anything, but I have seen Prince of Tides. I felt that the Barbra Streisand character was tacked on at the time, even though she was one of the main characters. So, now I know why.

I know these discussions more or less wrapped up while we were all waiting for the folder to come back, but I thought I'd add a little old-movie-and-book trivia. Birth of a Nation was also based on a book, but the author's name slips my mind. He wrote lots of books along the same lines as that though. When Woodrow Wilson (president at the time) saw the movie in the White House theater he had installed, he said that it was "like writing history with lightning," and went on to say how true he thought it was. This quote begins to explain why I (a former history teacher) vote for Wilson as one of the worst presidents ever.

Gone With The Wind: Leslie Howard wanted nothing to do with this movie. He thought it would increase his problems with being typecast. Incidentally he was in another of my favorite books-to-movies, The Scarlet Pimpernel.

Thanks for the chocolate-covered raisins, but I have to be running along...

Sorry, Lorrie, it wasn't The Munsters!Guess again! I would bet good money that it is a stumper! Do guess again!

As to the English Patient, I loved it and have seen it twice. Just for the visuals!

I just saw "Prince of Tides" again and liked it if I didn't try to put it together with the book which I read. As to the others listed above, I have seen "Cider House Rules" also and really liked it. I am a repeat movie watcher as I don't always catch EVERYTHING the first time and can take the time to appreciate it more with a repeat viewing. Have read all titles above except Green Mile and Tuesdays With Morrie. Can't wait to see Angela's Ashes as I think that Frank McCourt is a premier storyteller.

EllenM I knew I should have swept up that popcorn I was told it is my job (BG). I love chocolate-covered raisins, Where did you find them I thought I had eaten all of them Glad you found some.

Ups and Downs reminds me of my all time favorite movie, "Mame" or "Auntie Mame," remember that one with Rosalind Russell? The nephew's fiancee's parents had named their little pretentious "estate" Upson Downs. hahahahaha Wasn't their name Upson?

I think I'll watch that one again.

Ginny

Ginger, you missed a little spill of chocolate-covered raisins over in the corner! And here we had such a nice clean little sitting-room all spruced up for when the Books returned!

Ginny, I've got a feeling you've hit on the answer! Upson Downs, really!! Ellen M. Great post! I'm always fascinated by these little nuggets of information about flms made from books. Come back and see us! You can share in the chpcolate-covered raisins if Ginger hasn't eaten them all!

Ann, I read somewhere that because Streisand was one of the producers of Prince of Tides that she rewrote her own role as much bigger. I didn't especially care for her part, but like you, loved Nick Nolte!

Lorrie

Have a video of Catherine Cookson's TILLY TROTTER.

The Brits do a good job of making her books into movies, but I agree that the books themselves are almost always much better.

I did think the movie The Horse Whisperer was actually better than the book.

I have quit the chocolate truffles. Too Messy while sitting here watching movies! Am into miniature Heath bars now. Want some?

Mary Page: Heath bars are one of my favorites!

Has anyone figured out the answer to Anne's question in Post #181? I think Ginny may have gotten it, but I'm not sure! Anybody else?

Lorrie

Don't know the answer to Anne's question. Have not been to the movies since last October.

There is a Wonderful catalog of videos of movies that were made into books. THE VIDEO CATALOG. Comes out 4 times a year. You can call 1 800 733-2232 to get a Free catalog.

Mary Page, what a great idea! Thanks for the info about the video catalogue, I'm going to send for it.

Ann: I can't bear this suspense any longer? What's the answer?

How many of you readers remember "The Great Gatsby?" How many read the book, then saw the movie? Or vice versa? This is one of F. Scott Fitzgerald's finest books, but even though there were two different versions of the book made into films, the movies never seemed to garner the same praise. I think it was because Fitzgerald was a really visual storyteller. He had a strong sense of atmosphere, and what he says in the book with words would be difficult to express on screen.

Does anyone else remember the movie, the most recent one, with Robert Redford and Mia Farrow?

Lorrie

I remember it, Lorrie.

Sigh, Redford ...........

There were actually three different movies made from the book "The Great Gatsby." One in 1926, with Warner Baxter as Gatsby, and Lois Wilson as Daisy. Then another, in 1949, with Alan Ladd as Gatsby and Virginia Field as Daisy. But critics agree that the 1974 version with Redford and Farrow, stayed the most faithful to the book's story line and yet became a sluggish, langorously paced story that runs almost an hour longer than the 1949 version. The reviews were lukewarm.

I remember the Alan Ladd movie. He was gorgeous, but short.

Very, very, very short.

I read once that they had to put him on a box for all of his shots with women.

Really!? Alan Ladd!? How short was he? Now there's a research project for you! Gosh, he always looked so tall in the saddle!!

I think I remember reading that he was shorter than I! I think I read 5' 2".

But I must tell you that I am NOT TO BE TRUSTED. I did not read that recently, but eons ago, and my memory is Ghastly!

Maybe there is a biography of him on line. But then, do they usually give measurements?

Mary Page, you are not out of line! Alan Ladd was notoriously short, and yes, he did have to stand on a box for some of his love scenes. I read somewhere that a lot of the Hollywood actresses wouldn't work with him for that reason. Isn't it disgusting the most inane facts that stay with us in our memories? I can tell you that Alan Ladd had to stand on a boxx when he made movies 40 years ago, but I can't tell you who won the World Series last year! Hahahahaha

Lorrie

Hey,Lorrie, I will tell you who said it. Katherine Hepburn! and its an old movie! But, not too old! I have seen this movie four or five times and never tire of it.

Yes I hear about The Prince of Tides and Barbara Streisand's plumping of her part,too.

My mother, who was 5'2', met Alan Ladd and said she was looking down on him! She was so disappointed! Said she could never forget it and didn't go to many of his movies after that. LOL!

Well there you are, Lorrie! We are not senile. Yet.

Anne has put the cap on it. I think Hollywood tried to keep it hush, hush. I know I was SHOCKED when I read the tidbit somewhere. Apparently you read the same bit.

And yes, I could Not agree with you more; it is Ridiculous the things we remember. But seriously, I think it was the very real shock we felt upon reading that about our Handsome Hero that was the very thing that kept it in our minds.

Yes, and I remember reading somewhere that when they were making "Gone With the Wind" that Vivien Leigh dreaded the love scenes with Clark Gable because he had such a bad case of halitosis! See what I mean about rembering silly facts? But somehow, I never liked him as much after that.

Speaking of which, in a day or two we're going to be looking at a list of Famous Love Stories from books that were made into movies, and of course,"GWTW" is on that list! Stay tuned! Popcorn is endless, and somebody, Mary Page(?) has some Miniature Heath bars.

Lorrie

Ann, would that be Katherine Hepburn in Philadelphia Story?

Lorrie

Maybe most of our movie heroes were short so they could get them on that(then) little screen and in that little camera! Hahahaha!

No, Lorrie, not "The Philadelphia Story"! Try again!

Ann: I'm starting to get mad. (At myself!) Was it "Bringing Up Baby?" C'mon, everybody! How about some guesses? See Post #181 by Ann Alden.

Lorrie

Okay. I really haven't a clue, but I'll guess

Guess Who's Coming To Dinner

Ann, did you say a recent movie or one you'd seen recently? I haven't got a clue either.

Sometime, let's talk about old Alec Guiness movies... anyone else remember them fondly? I'm not into slapstick and most "humorous" movies leave me cold but I guffawed my way through these!
"The Lavender Hill Mob"
"The Man in the White Suit"
and "The Horse's Mouth" spring to mind.

The reason I thought I could get by with bringing this up is that last one, "The Horse's Mouth" is also a novel by Joyce Cary, which I've never read. I can't imagine it would be any better or funnier than the movie but I guess I should try it. Have any of you read it?

Oh, Jeryn, I always thought that "Lavender Hill Mob" was a classic. I really laughed at that one--Alec Guiness was hilarious! And that little old lady! There was another one he did, where he played several different roles in the same movie---was that "Kind Hearts and Coronets?"

Lorrie

Didn't he play a total of 8 roles in that last one, Lorrie?

Jeryn, I have never read The Horse's Mouth.

Yessssssss! "Kind Hearts and Coronets" was one of those great ones I'm talking about! I think there's more even..... Alec Guiness was such a great talent.

Okay, all you moviegoers! Let's clean up the popcorn, pick up the candy wrappers, trash the soda cartons, and get ready for our new list. Which will be up by tomorrow. Now we're going to do a segment on Famous Love Stories that were made into films, and I'd like you all to rack your brains when you see it and suggest something I may have missed! Okay?

Lorrie

Aw, Lorrie .....

I thought Ginger was the one to stay behind and clean up.

I just got here. Surely I can't be expected to clean up. Besides I ate all my popcorn and was careful to put the container in the large trash can by the door.

Great love stories, hmmmmmm. How about Wuthering Heights? The Ghost and Mrs. Muir? Gone with the Wind (obviously)?

maryal

PIGMALION

Which became MY FAIR LADY when it became a musical.

Maryal: As long as you're such a neatnik, you're excused from clean-up duty. Gone Withthe Wind and Wuthering Heights are on the list, also Casablanca, we'll consider the others, too.

Mary Page: And Pygmalion, of course!

I just had a message from Lorrie and she's having trouble getting into SeniorNet. She'll be here as soon as possible though!

Pat

The Web Crossing was up from 8:30 pm CST to 9:10pm or so.. Maybe Lorrie will be here soon...

The elves will clean-up here when they finish in the Cafe.

Hah hah! Thought you were rid of old blabbermouth here, didn't you? Well, no such luck. I'm back, and we're now going to put up a new list of "famous love stories" for you all to comment on.

Lorrie

Okay, here's our new list of great love stories made into movies. some not so recent, but still memorable, and still in demand on video. I didn't include many that I' sure you'll all feel should be mentioned---I wanted to keep the list less cumbersome, but please feel free to mention any you think would fit in that category.

You'll notice I deliberately left out some books into movies that starred some of our more popular stars like Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, and many others, but that's because we'll be talking at length about these stars in a later discussion.

"Casablanca" is iffy--it wasn't actually written as a novel or even a short story, but in my estimation, this film is one of the all-time great love stories ever filmed. and it would be a shame to ignore it!

So refill your popcorn, or have some more Heath bars, take off those shoes, and let's talk!!

Lorrie

Yikes! How could I forget? There is one couple who made more than one beautiful (at the time)love story. In fact, for many years they were "America's Sweethearts!" How could I have possibly forgotten Jeannette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy? Does anyone remember "Naughty Marietta," "Maytime," or that perennial stalwart Mountie singing the "Indian Love Call" to Jeannette? How I used to thrill to those songs! Anyone else?

Lorrie

Pat W: I am thankful for those elves now I can get down to business.

Mary P: Ha Ha I lost my job to them there elves, am I not the lucky one, my lucky day is this one. Ha Ha.

Lorrie: Now you are speaking to me for sure Jeannette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy, Indian Love call. Tramp, Tramp Tramp. Never,Never can be Love. Neath the southern moon.

Naughty Marietta. Live for today. I'm falling in love with someone and my all time favorite, AH Sweet mystery of life. You my friend have struck a nerve for me and then Nelson Eddy sang with nadine conner. But there was no one, I mean no one like Jeannette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy, oh do I remember can you tell. I have the record in my hot little hand, Naughty Marietta but this one is 1951 Nelson Eddie with Nadine conner. But it was better with Jeannette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy OH shut my mouth. OK

Ginger

What great memories, Ginger! Naughty Marietta! I loved those two together. The music is simply beautiful! Who wrote most of their stuff? Was is Franz Lehar?

Here's another clue, Lorrie and others! The movie was nominated for an Academy Award and both of the stars were, too. Oh, and I watched it recently but it is not a recent movie. I watch some of the old stuff on TMC, Bravo and one other that I can't name right now.

Want to know about Franz Lehar? Lehár was the leading composer of operetta in the 20th century and played a great role in its revival as a form of international entertainment. He was educated in music at Sternberg and played horn and violin in various military and civilian organizations. After completing his military service, he began conducting and producing his own operettas at theatres in Vienna. In 1905 he set the libretto for Die lustige Witwe, which enjoyed the greatest success in operetta history. Lehár has been compared to Johann Strauss II because of his ability to make melodies that sounded right but were unconventional in their construction. He incorporated social dance rhythms into his work and made special use of a gentle waltz in his pieces.

Sorry, Naughty Marietta was written by Victor Herbert. To read about the opening in San Diego in the early 1900's click here: http://www.gothere.com/SanDiegoHystericalSociety/page47.htm

I was interested in why Du Maurier wrote Rebecca so I looked it up. Du Maurier, Daphne (1907-1986), British novelist and short-story writer of tales of adventure and mystery. She was born in London. Commercial success came with Jamaica Inn (1936). However, it was her novel of suspense Rebecca (1938), and the subsequent motion picture of the novel (1940) directed by Alfred Hitchcock that brought both critical and popular acclaim. In it du Maurier described the imbalance of power between the sexes and the innate subservience of women within marriage. Du Maurier's work attracted literary attention because of her gift for telling a gripping tale. The short story The Birds (1952) was turned into a horror film (1963) by Hitchcock, and Don't Look Now (1971) was produced as a film in 1973. These stories began to show the more unnerving side to du Maurier's ability as a mystery writer, and are attracting increasing literary attention.

Was Hitchcock the only producer of it? I can't remember.

Ginger, my first exposure to operetta was probably "Naughty Marietta" but I also remember going to the light opera company shows in Indianapolis in the summertime and see such things as Sigmond Romberg's "Blossom Time" plus Franz Lehar's "Student Prince". And the "Merry Widow"! What fine music that was. I loved it!

Oh, Ann, these are such wonderful posts of yours! I wondered also why you hadn't mentioned Victor Herbert, although I've always loved the music of Franz Lehar, too. Are we hopelessly outdated? Those wondeful moments with Nelson Eddy and Jeanette! How I sobbed, and thrilled when they sang "Ah, Sweet Mystery Of Life" on that stairwell. Got that one, too, Ginger? Kids today say those movies are "sappy." Well, "sappy" they may be, but they gave countless people many happy moments, especially during a time of such economic upheaval. Pure escapism, and I loved it!

"PHILADELPHIA STORY", Ann?

Remember Nelson Eddy dressed up as a Canadian Mounted Policeman and singing "I am Calling You, oo, oo, oo, oo, oo, oo"?

Or when they walked arm in arm among all those beautiful apple? blossoms singing, "Sweetheat, Sweetheart, Sweetheart
Will You love me,eeeeverrr?
Will you remember the day?
Lorrie

Lorrie! WHY is my bag of Heath bars empty?

I think Ginger ate them all up when our backs were turned! Never fear, I'll get some more and take it out of her pay.

Ann: Is the answer "Lion in Winter?" "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" But didn't someone already guess that one?

Lorrie

By the way, did you know that those great lovers, MacDonald and Eddy, were reputed to be at each other's throats too often. Rumore were that they couldn't stand each other. Strictly Hollywood gossip. Some said it was because Nelson Eddy was reportedly gay, but I don't really know, or care.

Lorrie

I guessed Guess Who's Coming For Dinner a number of posts back, Lorrie. I presume it was not correct.

I think she's got it!! Yes, Lorrie, its

The Lion In Winter!!!I knew you could guess it eventually. I love that movie and usually get a chance to see it every two years or so. Eleanor of Aquitane(Katherine Hepburn) and King Richard?(Peter O'Toole) have a stupendous argument which ends with her on the floor leaning against a wall and after all that quasi Shakespearian dialect that is throughout the movie, she says,"Well, every family has its and downs." I nearly fall on the floor everytime I hear it! ROF!!!

Jeannette McDonald always drove me nuts. To me she looked older than Nelson Eddy, and really had a hard time being cute and coy and adorable. Was it her acting or her face? Beautiful, but...

My dad sure loved those songs from their movies! Bought me the sheet music for more than one of them, and with me playing the piano and him singing out with gusto, those stout-hearted men told the whole neighborhood about the sweet mystery of life.

Love...Katie

Ann: I'm ashamed that it took me so long to get the answer. I saw that movie, but for the life of me can't remember that line. But then that's why I stopped going to movies. I missed too much because of my hearing.

Katie: The picture of you accompanying your father belting out some of the old Nelson Eddy songs is a very endearing one. Treasure the memory.

Mary Page, I remember now you had guessed "Coming to Dinner!"

Looking over this list, I keep coming back to "Gone With The Wind." I think because it made such an impression on me, and because the love affair between Rhett Butler and Scarlet was so intense, and hardly smooth.Many people liked Leslie Howard in this, but I always thought he was even more of a wimp in the movie than in the book, and I think Rhett thought so, too. But with all the controversy around the selection of Vivian Leigh to play Scarlett, I believe she did a magnificent job of acting. That one scene of her gripping the lone turnip and swearing she'd never go hungry again remains with me. Superb!

Lorrie

Had to be the crowning glory of Vivian Leigh's career--that movie. I certainly agree that she WAS Scarlett O'Hara.

I see you have one of my alltime favorite movies in the list there... are you referring to the Romeo and Juliet made around 1968 with Olive [Olivia?] Hussey as Juliet? Don't remember who acted Romeo. That was such a vibrant, lively, REAL rendition of the ageless story. Still watch it occasionally. I think Shakespeare would have approved...

Yes, Jeryn: For one thing in that version you were talking about (with Olivia Hussey) the actors were much young than wehen played by Norma Shearer in the old version. After all, Juliet was only 14 years old in Shakespeare's story! Yes, I too think the Bard would have approved.

Lorrie

Lets see if I can remember what all was asked.

Ah sweet mystery of Life, I do have that also. What I have is a 331/3 record I bought in 1951 that has all the songs that I listed on it.

I got caught eating heath bars, by who? I must have got carried away, they were so go. Piggy, piggy ginger I Remember Nelson Eddy dressed up as a Canadian Mounted Policeman and singing "I am Calling You, oo, oo, oo, and It was great. Ginger

I can't choose one of these movies, as to me, they all had their particular charm and climatic moments. Remember when Humphrey Bogart tells Ingrid Bergman to get on that plane with Paul Henreid? What a scene! And, I didn't particularly like Bogart as an actor. It was his choice of pictures that I liked. He made some goodies. He did register emotional pain well. Again, a black and white picture where the scenes are so well lighted. I think what fascinates me about black and white films are the mood setting scenes using special effects. The lighting people were geniuses, capturing the mood of the scene so well. When you think of how young movies were at the time, its amazing that that talent came to the fore so quickly. What fun it must have been! Just working out how to do all of this newfangled stuff. I wonder if they were formerly lighting directors and stage decorators for NY plays.

Ann: Yes, that farewell scene in "Casablanca" could only be effective in black and white, with that plane gunning in the background, and then Bogart and Claude Rains walking away in the mist! You have to admit, even though he wasn't the most handsome man you ever saw, there was something about him! I always suspected he had a sort of speech impediment, and he was gettting really bald, but I still thought he was geat!

Lorrie

Happy Happy Birthday, Sing right along!!! Our Lorrie, and MANY many more!!!

I didn't know.

Sorry if I've been giving you the usual bad time today. You have a Free Pass for the remaining hours.

We sneaked in frozen custard cones over here in the corner, and there is One for You!

Hurry on back here before it drips all over the carpet and Ginger writes us up.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, LORRIE!

Eddie

HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAYDEAR LORRIE!!!!

You may have my share of the goodies!

Happy Birthday, hap hap happy birthday to our leader, Ms Lorrie!Now, where's my ice cream cone? I have baked a cake with lots of chocolate fudge icing. Mmmmmm goooood! Raise your hands if you want a piece! Am cutting it right now!

Jeeeeez Louise! One can gain weight just READING in here!! I'll take a glass of water...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY LORRIE

WEEEELLLLL!!WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT? LOOK AT WHAT ALL YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING WHILE I WAS DOWNSTAIRS PARTYING! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT---I THINK YOU ARE ALL THE GREATEST, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH! At this rate, I'll be so fat I'm afraid they'll throw me out of the Weight Watchers Honor Guard, and at the rate you guys are going, you won't be far behind! Hahaha

Lorrie

Okay, now that I've finished with my frozen custard, (and I didn't drip any on the floor, Mary Page) let's get back to our favorite subject! Books that were made into movies!!

Hi, Aquarius 67: (that's an intriguing name1) Did I miss you before? If not, we were discussing great love stories from books, and I think we were talking about Casablanca, and I said I thought it was one of the greatest love stories made into a movie. A lot of people probably won't agree, but that's what this discussion is all about, really. By the way, Casablanca was not from a book, but a play called"Everybody Goes to Rick's" and written by Murray Bernet. In fact, Ingrid Bergman told many people later that, while filming that picture, half the time they never knew what the ending would be--they kept changing it, she said. Interesting. Anyone?

Lorrie

What's scary is that neither Ingrid or Bogie were the first choices for the leads. Can't imagine anyone else in their roles, ever!

I am not as nostalgic about the movie as I am about the night I went to see it. Christmas vacation 1942. After Christmas Day. Cousins together that night. We went to the Uptown Theatre in Washington D.C. Cold, snowy, starlit night. We were 13, 14, 15, 15, & 16 years old. Laughing. Seeing our breath as we chattered away while trudging back to the home of one of the cousins. Two are dead now. Much later, when the movie became famous, we began reminding one another that we had been together when we saw it.

I've had this secret fear that someday, somewhere in Hollywood, some idiots are going to try to "re-do" Casablanca. I shudder when I think about this, judging from their past flops on re-makes! I understand they did do a similar one, with David Soul as Ricky. David Soul? And apparently it also was a flop! I hope they just leave it alone!

Lorrie

We haven't said much here about "Wuthering Heights." I know some of you probably didn't like this movie, but I thought it was even better than the book. I could see Heathcliffe a lot better in Olivier's portrayal, and seeing the movie made the moors seem even more real, especially that scene with Cathy standing on the moors, clutching the heather, the wind blowing her hair back! To me, their love affair was such a bittersweet one, with Heathcliffe, bitter to the end, still pining for his lost Catherine. Did anyone else like this book?

When I was very young I ADORED the book. I did not think the movie (Any of the movies) really conveyed the tone of the book.

I was a total romantic as a young girl.

Have no desire to read the book or see the movie again. I still revere Emily Bronte, though. And her Poetry!

Oh my, the Talent in that small family!

Speaking of the Bronte family, I've been doing some research into that really withdrawn group of people. They were riddled with talent, and their whol biography is fascinating! Did anyone else here get that same feeling about the rivalry between Charlotte and Emily?

Lorrie

I suppose there must have been sibling rivalry, but I did not sense it when I went to visit the old parsonage in Haworth, Yorkshire. I got the feeling they were totally supportive of one another. To me, Emily seemed the greatest talent of the four.

The parsonage is now a museum. I saw the couch Emily died on. I saw one of Charlotte's dresses. She was a short Twiggy. So tiny in the shoulders it was Unreal. The most incredible things there are the miniature books they wrote. They have them under glass, but you can read them. Teeny, tiny little books with teeny, tiny little lettering. Whole stories in each little book! Great stories! And they did these things When They Were Children!

Mary Page: What an incredible tale! You were actually there! How I would have loved to see that parsonage. And your story about the tiny little books made me think of the incredible Coleen Moore dollhouse in the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. There was this tiny little stand, on it this little Bible, and every book and chapter complete! One could barely read it with a magnifying glass!
The Bronte children must have been unusually talented.I can't help but feel sympathy for Charlotte-----the motherless childhood at the bleak parsonage at Haworth on the Yorkshire moors; the stern, reclusive, half-mad clergyman-father; the semi-starvation at the Cowan Bridge School for Clergymen's Daughters (model for the ghastly Lowood School in Jane Eyre); the deaths of her two elder sisters from consumption in 1825; the lonely sojourn in Brussels and unrequited love for a married man; the stagnant, empty years as a school-teacher and governess; the alcohol-sodden death of her feckless brother, Branwell, in 1848; the deaths of her sisters Emily and Anne, their literary dreams mostly unrealized, and only a few months later her own brief fame as a novelist cut short by illness and depression and an agonizing death during pregnancy--less than a year after her marriage to her father's curate--just when happiness seemed at last within reach. It's a life i certainly wouldn't envy, fame or no.

Lorrie

I’m glad that you chose Rebecca as one of the subjects to be discussed. I enjoyed the movie as much as I did the book because of the great actors and great acting from each of them And the lighting in the black and white film help dramaize the plot more. I saw the movie before reading the book; I’m glad I did because it helped me visualize every thing more when I did read the book..especially Mrs. Danvers running from room to room as Manderly burned --I got her name right this time: over in Horror and Dracula, I called her Mrs. Danville. How kind and courteous no one brought this to my attention

But, please, some one tell me the name of the actress that played the part of Mrs. Danvers. I just can’t think of her screen name. Was it Gale Sondergard?

Ann Alden, Thanks for all the information regarding Rebecca.

Mary Page, that was a marvolus rendition of "When I'm Calling You."

I think it was Judith Anderson. I think she was Dame Judith Anderson. And she was one of the all-time great character actors.

I THINK that is who it was. Mrs. Danvers the first, I mean.

Just looked it up...yes, it was Judith Anderson who played Mrs. Danvers. Only she wasn't a Dame, yet. The movie was made in 1940...can you believe 60 years ago?

60 YEARS AGO? It seems like only yesterday that we watched the "mousy" little heroine, the new Mrs. DeWinter, cower before the housekeeper! Yes, it was Dame Judith Anderson. Remember the episode when she broke the vase or whatever and was afraid to tell her own servant? I thought Lawrence Olivier as Max deWinter was the handsomest thing I ever saw, and he oozed charisma! I loved that movie!! Bilsom, it's good to see you here, and I'm so glad you liked Rebecca, too. And don't worry about any little goofs you might make. We tend to ignore them, because we all make 'em. hahaha

Lorrie

Lorrie: JUST A quick note to say a belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY. MY mobile home park suffered a complete power outage for two days and I'm just getting caught up now. Been reading all your posts and am anxious to get back in the fun.

Gail G.

We just watched REBECCA again too. It was such a good movie. We had listened to an unabridged recording of it on a long car trip and I couldn`t resist renting it again--It was the best!! I also enjoyed the sister of Max de Winter. I can`t think of her name right now. She was Rebecca`s friend from the start--

Gail G: Welcome back! Those power outtages kill you, don't they?

May Naab: Yes, I know what you mean? Max's sister right when she needed a friend badly. I can't think of that actor's name--she was in so many British movies. Those first words of the book, (and the voiceover in the movie) are haunting, aren't they? "Last night I dreamed I was at Manderlay again," or something like that. My sister did a reading of that first paragraph one time, years and years ago, and her girl-friend played "Clair de Lune" on the piano softly in the background. It was very effective!

Lorrie

Thanks Mary Page and Lorrie.

Yes, I remember now; it was judith Anderson--what a remarkable performance she gave.

Last night I dreamt I went to Manderly again. The fictional charcter Mike Noonan in King's "Bag Of Bones" writes: "If there is any more beautifull and haunting first line in in English fiction, I've never read it."

Several years ago, there was,on PBS, a four-part series of Rebecca. Jeremy Brett gave a powerfull performance of Max deWinters and Joanna David played a very humbling role as the second Mrs. de Winters

I thought it was very good, however, since the series was done in color it didn't have the dramatic atmosphere of the movie. But it was still a compelling series.

Bilsom, I'm sorry I missed that one! It probably was good; I have always liked Jeremy Brett. I thought he made a fine Sherlock Holmes!

Lorrie

I was so crazy about Jeremy Brett, starting with his Freddy, in "My Fair Lady", and ending with his performance as the very best Sherlock Holmes on film. He is greatly missed...

Tomorrow is the day of my annual viewing of "The Quiet Man", which started as a short story, rather than a book. As you old timers around here know, it is my all time favorite movie. I do so enjoy reciting the dialogue right along with those lovely actors. You are all invited to join me, and I'm happy to tell you that I finally have it in DVD. Ireland never looked so good!

Love...Katie

Katie, what a wonderful chore! Now that's a job that will be fun for you, because THE QUIET MAN is a movie that has everything! Where can we go to see your review?

Lorrie

This was another great movie inspired by the book. Photographed and directed beautifully, and the cast--Lancaster, Sinatra, Borgnine, Deborah Kerr, etc. . . . all had such an outstanding performance.

I saw this movie before reading the book, and I’m so glad I did (can’t say that about all movies from books). Because, when I read this outstanding book, it helped me “see” the faces and mannerisms of the characters I was reading about And “seeing" these characters gave them so much more being and substance. Also, I could visualize in my minds eye the different scenes portrayed in the movie when described in the book It gave, for me, more life and strength to the book.

I give this book into movie a 4-star rating.

Yes. Jeremy Brett was my favorite Sherlock also. and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is one of my favorite authurs. . . especially his Sherlock Holmes stories.

Lorrie, You may be able to rent that "Rebecca" series with Jeremy Brett and Joanna David from one of the Block Busters video stores or from another video store.

May Naab, I think you meant to say that De Winters' sister was a good friend to the SECOND Mrs. De Winters.

Rebecca was the FIRST wife and the villainess of the piece.

My husband and I visited Fowey in Galant in Cornwall. That was where du Maurier was from and her own home was there, on which she based her description of Manderly. A beautiful part of the world; we loved it.

Mary Page: How wonderful to visit the places where these famous authors live. You can see where they might have gotten background for some of their stories.

Bilsom, I always felt that the movie FROM HERE TO ETERNITY was just as good as the book. It was even a bit shorter, that book was long! Do you remember the scene on the beach with Burt Lancaster and Deborah Kerr? WOW1 And in her quiet little way, Donna Reed did just fine playing the part of a prostitute. In fact, they had a stellar cast in that movie. They were all good!

Lorrie

HAPPY ST.PATRICK'S DAY!

Lorrie

Mary Page, you mentioned "Pigmalion" in an early post. I saw that movie on the silver screen. Leslie Howard had the lead role, but could you tell me who had the female lead.

Lorrie, I'm glad you mentioned Donna Reed's name; I wracked my brains trying to think of it. Too bad she's gone. You talked about not forgetting the beach scene. That's what I ment by visulizing scenes in the book better by seeing the movie first

BILSOM...Wendy Hiller had the part of "Pygmalion". I remember it, too. It was in the late 30s, wasn't it? A British movie.

Happy St.Patrick's Day!

Shoot, Bilsom! Katie beat me to it. Good for you, Katie!

It was Dame Wendy Hiller. The last time I saw her in a movie was in that wonderful MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS. She played the very ancient dowager. And to think she was so young in Pygmalian! She also had the lead, as a young actress, in Major Barbara. Or was it Barbra? Anyway, she was a very great actress.

Bilsom, I believe it was 1939 and was a British movie. But am not certain of these facts.

Truth is, I am never certain of Anything my mind believes to be fact any more!

Didn't any of you movie fans like "An Affair to Remember?" We're talking romantic novels here, but even though it wasn't actually a novel first, I thought it was a wonderful story. Of the two versions, one with Charles Boyer and Irene Dunne, the other with Carey Grant and Deborah Kerr, I think I liked the Carey Grant one better. How aout you? Remember that scene with the grandmother high on the hill in that little coastal town? Wasn't that music enchanting? Talk about romantic!!!

Lorrie

Bilsom, Mary Page, and Katie: You guys are a wellspring of information!! Walking encyclopeias! Hahaha Or is it encyclopeiae?

By the way, remember "Sleepless in Seattle?" This movie with Carey Grant and Kerr was mentioned all through it. Remember?

Lorrie

Glad to hear someone mention those wonderful old British movies with Wendy Hiller! Pygmalion was super! How do you all think it compared with the later rendition we know as "My Fair Lady"??

HAPPY ST. PADDY'S DAY TO ALL THE LOVELY IRISH PEOPLE AMONG US!!!

I remember the name An Affair to Remember, but do not remember the movie at all. Someone would have to recall the plot to me.

I thought My Fair Lady was heaps of fun, and, of course, the music was superb; BUT, Pygmalion was my all time favorite movie and I do not feel it can be matched or surpassed for erudite wit.

My cup of tea, as they say. And I ADORED Leslie Howard.

Thanks Katie, and Mary Page for giving me the name of Wendy Hiller, I would never have thought of it. The picture could not've been made later than l939, I connect that year with an important happening. Another good picture that was released abut that time was Of Human Bondage" with Leslie Howard and Betty Davis. Did Leslie Howard have an accidental death?

Yes, Leslie Howard was killed in a plane crash. Somehow I think it was connected with WWII and was over the channel; but am not certain of any of this. Just fragments of memories ...... that get all mixed up sometimes.

MaryPage - I think that you are right about Leslie Howard being killed in a plane crash during WWII. That is what I remember about him. Also, I seem to remember that Glen Miller was another one that was lost in a plane crash during WWII. So many good men lost their lives during that tragic period. Mary K.

Mary Page--Thanks--of course, I meant the second Mrs. de Winter having a good friend in Maxim`s sister!!

What an interesting discussion this is!! I am off to Blockbuster tomorrow for some good weekend rentals--definitely From Here to Eternity!!

MARY PAGE...You don't know about "An Affair To Remember"????? Gracious! It was the story of two people meeting on a ship, falling in love, and agreeing to meet again in 6 months, after they had worked out their problems. The meeting was to be at the top of the Empire State Bldg., and she is hit by a car while hurrying to get there. She refuses to let anyone tell him that she can't walk, yet, because she knows she'll get better some day and will walk into his arms. He finally finds out why she didn't show up and they all live happily ever after.

Any other plots you need to know about? I think it's only fair to tell you that I have one of my trusty movie guides right at my elbow. It was no problem to find Wendy Hiller, altho I do remember that she had the lead in "Pygmalion". Just needed to confirm it before I posted it as fact. I preferred "My Fair Lady", but music will get me every time.

I really liked "Murder On the Orient Express"! They were all terrific in that!

Love...Katie

Mary Page, Katie, Bilsom: Wow! You people are treasures of information! I like it, I like it! Yes, Dame Wendy Hiller is a fine actress. ORIENT EXPRESS is an all-time favorite of mine, too.

Jeryn, when you compare PYGMALION and MY FAIR LADY, I keep thinking that the only common ground is the plot. While Lady is a rhapsodic gem, there is a certain wit and grace in the way Shaw wrote PYGMALION. Actually, it's difficult to compare them.

May Naab: By all means, rent a couple good movies, then come back here and let us know how you liked them. We never run out of popcorn, and sometimes generous souls bring chocolate treats of some kind.

Mary Koerner: Like you mentioned, many entertainers were killed during the war. Wasn't Clark Gable's wife, Carole Lombard, killed in a plane crash while making a trip to sell war bonds?

Lorrie

Yes, now that you tell me the plot line, I remember "An Affair to Remember" very well indeed. Redone several times, wasn't it?

Actually, when my brain answered that Howard had died in a plane crash during WWII, I questioned it saying: But you Know Glenn Miller did, and maybe that is what you are thinking of! Hate appearing completely duh-----. But too lazy to attempt to find the correct information.

I'll count on Katie to keep me straight.

Hello everyone:

There is an article in the N.Y.Times today, Sat March 18 in the Arts & Ideas section titled How the C.I.A. played dirty tricks with culture.

It's a fascinating piece about how the C.I.A. changed the endings of the films ANIMAL FARM and 1984 to fight the cold war.

The article quotes a new book "The Cultural Cold War: The C.I.A. and the World of Arts and Letters" by Frances Stonor Saunders, a British journalist. The book was published in Britain last summer & will be published in the U.S. next month.

After reading the article,one might wonder about the various pressures brought to bear when a book is made into a movie.

Ed: That is extremely interesting! Somehow the idea of the CIA messing around with movie presentations doesn't surprise me! Yes, it does make one wonder. The same applies to some TV shows. There was a weekly show made a couple seasons ago about a Catholic priest, that as a Catholic, I found very good. I think it was called "Nothing Sacred," but I may be wrong on the title. Anyway, so much pressure was brought by the Church and various Catholic organizations that they finally cancelled it. I was furious! This was an exceptionally good program, without all the sanctimonious drivel usually found in some religious stories. It makes you wonder, again, just how much actual censorship is practiced in what we read and see!

Lorrie

I don't think that was the name of the series, Lorrie, but I cannot remember the name. Maybe it was. It was something like that. It was a Fabulous show, and the young man who played the main character, who was a priest, was magnificent. I e-mailed ABC and complained when they gave in to pressure from the church and cancelled it.

My daughter who teaches languages in a Catholic High School says all of the faculty there, including the dear sisters, thought it was wonderful as well.

Well, everyone knows there are the do-gooders and the hard liners in the entire body of Christianity. The show was full of do-gooders.

MARY PAGE...Aw, no fair! I do remember that Glenn Miller was lost in the fog over the English Channel, probably, and that Leslie Howard died in a non-military way during the war, but I've totally forgotten the circumstances. And, boo hoo...it doesn't have that info in my Movie Guide.

Maybe someone who knows better than I how to find things on the net will fill in the details?

When we get to the most over-rated movies we've ever seen, have I got a list for you! (Including a whole bunch of Woody Allen's.)

Love...Katie

Okay, Katie, it was unfair of me to put the burden of proof on you.

So I searched for "Leslie Howard" and immediately got his biography.

He served in WWI and suffered shell shock.

His passenger plane was shot down by the Germans on 6/1/43 at the height of WWII.

The same method for Glenn Miller tells us he was lost in bad weather over the Channel while flying in a small plane from England to Paris in December 1944.

Katie: That's a wonderful idea! Let's all mention some of the movies we've really hated, or thought were terribly over-rated, and we'll put up the list for everybody to pick over. I, for one, would like to mention some of the historical movies that were made that I thought were complete flops, with the exception of THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL, or TALE OF TWO CITIES. I'm talking about movies like FOREVER AMBER and yes, even CLEOPATRA!

First, though, I've got a new list that I'm putting up tomorrow night. It's all about books from movies that starred Bette Davis. This woman made so many, I felt she deserved a seperate category. The list has only ten names on it, but I'm sure you will all sense a feeling of recognition when you see it. Whether you loved her or hated her, we'd like to hear your opinion!

Lorrie

I see that Gone With The Wind, Margaret Mitchell, is one of the selections for books into movies. And a such good choice. The movie as we all know is a classic. I saw this movie shortly after it was released, but I didn’t read the book until much later; I believe I saw the picture for the second time before reading the story.

This was another movie I was glad I saw before reading the book. Again, I was able to visualize all the scenes Mitchell described, including the battle scenes, as I read along, and “seeing” all the caracters she wrote about in her book as their movie screen counter parts was great! How could it help not be....seeing Gable, Leigh and all those other fine actors would make any book a great read. Not to mention “seeing” the scenes the movie makers photographed so brilliantly. I can see it all again as I sit here typing away. Good choice!

Has anyone seen this tidbit? Since a movie is planned on one of these novels, I thought you all might be interested. In the Friday, 3-17-00, Cleveland Plain Dealer, this item appeared in a column of news tidbits from around the nation under the heading “Philadelphia”...

“Harry Potter author sued over plots
An author is suing the writer and publishers of the Harry Potter books, claiming plots and characters in the popular children’s series originiated with her. Three books about Harry Potter, a young wizard, have sold 19 million copies in the United States, and a fourth is due for release in July. The author, J.K. Rowling of Scotland, has become a cult figure among the novels’ readers. A movie based on the first book, ‘Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone’ is in the works. But Nancy K. Stouffer of Camp Hill argues in her federal lawsuit that ideas for the Potter series were lifted from her 1984 book ‘The Legend of Rah and Muggles,’ which includes a character named Larry Potter.”

JERYN...there was a much longer article in our paper about that, wherein Stouffer quotes all those ideas. Want me to go dig out the paper? I think it is wishful thinking on her part, but haven't read any of the Potter books yet to know what she is talking about.

MARYPAGE...thanks for the Leslie Howard info. By non-military, I meant that I didn't think that he was in the fighting. Had no idea he was in WWI!

Love...Katie

It would be interesting to learn some more, Katie, if it isn't a lot of trouble. I read the first one of those books [before giving it to my grandson] and now have the second.

OK, JERYN...will follow thru, but maybe not tonight. I have to borrow the books from Andrew one of these days. He and his dad are reading a chapter a night, which I think is really neat. (He's my favorite redhead, the 10 yr.old.)

Love...Katie

Jeryn: Interesting note on Harry Potter. I'm not surprised that this author is being sued. When you're as famous world-wide and becoming as wealthy as she is, it's inevitable that people will be coming from all over to cast their claims! Proving it in a court is another thing, entirely! It seems to me she waited awfully long, hasn't she been reading about the success of these books?

Lorrie

Well, yes, Lorrie! Katie steered me towards some more detailed news articles and it does sound pretty spurious. For one thing, this author tried to settle out of court last year. For another, the book this author claims had been plagiarized has been out of print for some time! Hmmmmmmm!!

Anyone interested, go see what Katie wrote out of her newspaper in The Library...

Here is the link, JERYN...

http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/fc/entertainment/harry_potter

Click on the BBC report...it has the best coverage.

Love...Katie

Hahahahaha! Now YOU can delete YOUR message! Hahahahaha! Thanks again, Katie! Those articles were much more detailed than the one we had in our paper.

OK, JERYN...got my messages all tidied up, I hope! That tag playing was fun, tho.

Whew! Think it's time for me to start the "Inspector Morse" book!

Love...Katie

Bilsom, when you mentioned GONE WITH THE WIND, you really struck a chord. You're right--there is one case where it was better to have seen the movie before reading the book. I think the reason for that is because the movie followed Mitchell's story almost exactly, and it's amazing how the Hollywood characters were so like the ones in the book. Although I thought Leslie Howard's "Ashley" was just a teeny more lukewarm than in the book. But Vivien Leigh as Scarlett seemed exactly as she was written. What a book! And those love scenes!!

Lorrie

Lorrie: And those love scenes in "GWTW" didn't have all the explicit stuff we have to watch today. Remember the furor over Gable's use of the word "damn"!

The series you mentioned was "Nothing Sacred" and in addition to the lead role, which presented the Catholic priest as aa warm human being who from time to time questioned his own faith, I loved the woman whose one wish was to be allowed to preach a sermon, and maybe even one day becoming a priest. I haven't seen either of these fine actors in anything lately. Another wonderful series about a small town in Ireland and its new young priest was a BBC series called "Ballykissangel".

Gail G. Yes, that was it! "Nothing Sacred." And yes, I remember the woman who worked so hard and yet all she wanted was to be able to become a priest. Didn't he allow her to give the homily one Sunday?

If they only had more quality programs like this one instead of these inane situation "comedies?" I'm sure they would have the viewers, at least in time.

Lorrie

And there was even talk of censoring that scene in GWTW where Gable picks Scarlett up and carries her up to the bedroom, and in the story they were married, for pity's sake!

I think it was because the program portrayed the church as it really IS here in America, as opposed to the way the ultra conservative Vatican Mafia want it to be. They bitterly resent the American tendency to be living, breathing congregations practicing the Faith as though every individual were an Apostle of Christ rather than a simple-minded robot popping up and down every time the bell rings.

Can you tell I am a feminist? No, of course you can't ...........

I have to disagree about seeing Gone With the Wind as a film before reading the book. I saw Gone With the Wind when it first came out. I was just a child, but it made an enormous impression on me. The book made a much stronger impression when I read it a few years later.

I re-read it not too long ago and was struck at how much things have changed. If an author wrote some of the things today Mitchell wrote then, he or she would be called not "politically correct". It will be interesting to see how many of you have noticed this, or will notice it when you read it now.

Incidentally, I'm disappointed that Daphne du Maurier is not listed with the writers above. She wrote some excellent books that became movies. What was the one in which there was a marvelous estate called Manderley? She was a master of suspense, and her books were wonderfully romantic, too.

Mal

Hi Lorrie, finally getting back to checking out this great folder.

Malryn, I'm glad you said that. Several years ago I read "Gone With The Wind" and thought that some of her descriptions of black characters was very demeaning.

I recently found a book "Mrs. deWinter" by Susan Hill - described as a sequel to "Rebecca". I just started reading it.

"Murder on the Orient Express" brought to mind a picture that I loved called "Islands in the Sun". Peter Ustinov was Poirot, Noel Coward music was played throughout the movie, clever plot.

Eileen

Hello, I am new to Senior Net, and am really enjoying meeting so many nice people. Reading is one of my favorite hobbies, ans I usually try to see the movies too. I agree, that it is best to read the book first in most cases. I re-read Gone With The Wind a while back and enjoyed it a lot more. Have a good day.

Eileen, I think it's Rebecca that Manderley is in, isn't it? Terrific book. I must read it again. By the way, I'm originally from Haverhill, MA., am in NC now, I do love New England and miss it. I had a cousin who lived in Brockton.

Hi, Grani! Welcome to SeniorNet! What a small world! I see that you're from Indiana. I lived in Indianapolis five years when I was married.

Mal

"Jane Eyre" is one of my favorite books into movies. I think I prefer the Orson Wells version. There is a wonderful book called "Wide Saragasso Sea" by Jean Rhys, that tells the story of the first Mrs. Rochester (the mad woman in the attic). I would reccommend this book. I believe a movie was made of it but as yet I haven't come across it. Has anyone seen the movie or read the book?

Mal, how can you say that? "Rebecca" (listed above) was the story of Manderly, the estate named in the book by Daphne du Maurier, and a story we discussed a great deal some postings back! I'm sure, also, that there are many books,popular some years back, that are certainly not "politically correct" in our present society.

Mary Page: Feminist? You? Whatever makes you think we'd assume that? haha

Eileen: I didn't even know there was a swquel to Rebecca! I'm always a little leery of sequels because I've been so disappointed with them in the past!

Lorrie

Judy Klapper: WELCOME, WELCOME!

That's very interesting about a book about the madwoman in Jane Eyre! This is the first I've heard of it, and you can rest assure I'll look it up! Nice to see your name here!

Lorrie

GRANI: WELCOME TO OUR DISCUSSION! PULL UP A CHAIR, TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES, AND HELP YOURSELF TO THE POPCORN! WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR OPINION ON BOOKS THAT WERE MADE INTO MOVIES, OR VICE VERSA!

Lorrie

If you don't like popcorn, look in the back right corner. We have miniature Heath bars, miniature Mounds bars, Hershey's soft caramels and Dove dark chocolate bits in today's mixture. Yours for the asking; just don't bring any popcorn back here.

Lorrie: goodness me. The first MRS. Rochester was the cause of the fire in the house That was how Jane knew she couldn;'t marry him.(cuse me for butting in) I wonder no one mentioned "Pride and Prejudice" Now that to me is the best of bests. I have the video and every once in a while I bring it out and watch it. sure it take hrs, but oh so nice to listen to the words. I Enjoy your conversations here, Babs

Sorry, Lorrie. Guess I missed that. I apologize. I haven't been around the Books for a while.

So long.
Mal

To all you newcomers: Mary Page, from the beginning, has been more than generous with her constant supplies of Heah bars, Dove chocolate, Mars bars, and all kinds of goodies! But Mary Page doesn't like popcorn---that's why she sits over in the corner, amidst all that chocolate, so she won't have to smell the popcorn! Hahahaha Lorrie

BABS: We talked a little bit about PRIDE AND PREJUDICE when we first started this discussion, in fact, I think all Jane Austen's books were mentioned. But it's worth discussing even further, because so many of those books are showing up these days as movies, especially on the A&E channel.

JUDY..."Wide Sargasso Sea" is a 1993 Australian movie. The book (Leonard Maltin's) says, "altho attractive, the movie is a failed attempt to build real drama out of humid tropical passion." It is a prequel to "Jane Eyre", and has no one in the cast that I ever heard of here in Northern Michigan.

Lorrie, I’m glad you mentioned THE TALE OF TWO CITIES it brought back a lot of good memoirs. first, it was a book discussed in our English Lit. class when I was still in the last year of grade school.

When the picture was released I had too see it. I remembered Ronald Coleman immediately, but others came to mind as well: Edna May Oliver--what a great character actress she was, Reginald Owen, who was so popular in those days, Basil Rathbone--nothing need be said about him, Donald Woods, and, of course, Isabel Jewel of “Gone With The Wind” fame.

Thank you . It brought a lot of good memories back. Edna May Oliver, with that wonderfully strong- featured face.

Bilsom! There you go again, with your encyclopedic knowledge of ll these sometime bygone movie stars! I am in awe at your memory! Yes, TALE OF TWO CITIES had a fine cast, and I've always remembered those opening lines,"It was the best of times. It was the worst of times."

Lorrie

Here's a book/movie that probably none of you have seen but I loved the movie. Actually, it was a short and it won honors so when I saw the book, I was elated. The Circle and the Dot. Can't find the book now but I'll hunt for it and tell you briefly who fell in love with whom.

Lorie,

I think my memory failed me on Isabel Jewel. On second thought,I don't think she was in "Gone With The Wind." I got her mixed up with another actress. I suppose I was carried away with the Wind.

But the line I liked best from Two Cities was Sydney Carton thinking: "It's a far, far better thing I do today...

"Carried away by the wind!" Bilson, you're a hoot!

yes, and"it's a far, far better place I go,' etc.

Hi, Shirley! Good to see you here! I give up---I never heard of that book. Tell us, tell us.

Lorrie

Okay, all you book lovers! Now we’re going to talk about one of the best-known an memorable actors the screen has ever known! Controversial, talented, independent almost to a fault, this woman spent a lifetime entrancing viewers with her performances, ranging from a bald Queen Elizabeth II, to a slickly sophisticated Broadway star in “All About Eve.”

I have put up most of the movies Davis made that originated with books or plays, with the exception of “All About Eve,” a screenplay written by Joseph Mankiewicz. Of course there are many more, and I hope you all will take the time to remind us of any that were your favorites.

I think I saw the movie,”Now, Voyager!” more times than I can remember, and I love that movie to this day. I found the book to be exceedingly dull, it didn’t capture Davis’s hard-won independence from her domineering mother at all, and was really quite boring. But Oh, that romance with Paul Henreid! The shipboard love scene, the bittersweet farewell, her head -on confrontation with the matriarch, and oh, that music by Max Stein! A two-hanky show, for real!

Lorrie

LORRIE...yesterday I saw two Bette Davis movies and I see from your list that only one of them was from a book. First was "Mrs. Skeffington", were she finally looked almost as bad as she did in "Baby Jane", and the other was the always lovable "Pocket Full of Miracles", her Apple Mary thing. I enjoyed them both, but "Dark Victory" and "All About Eve" are still my BD favorites.

Love...Katie

Hi, Katie: Ah, yes, DARK VICTORY, with the ill-fated Judith Traherne doomed to go out brain tumor and all. Do you remember the cast in that movie? Geraldine Fitzgerald, George Brent, Humphrey Bogart!, Ronald Reagen! What a cast!! This is really a three-hankie job!

The same goes for NOW, VOYAGER! The woman who played the mother, Gladys Cooper, was superb. It seems to me that Bette Davis always managed to surround herself with fine actors. That is, if she had anything to do with it.

Lorrie

When I first “discovered” Betty Davis I didn’t care for her too much. But as I grew older and a little wiser, I came to realize just how good an actress Miss Davis was. And I tried not to miss any of her movies. Therefore, I was pleased to see Betty sitting amongst the Kennedy Center Honorees in 1987, and I enoyed watching as the Center ran clips of her old moviies and some of her more recent ones as well.

The first movie I seen Betty Davis in was OF HUMAN BONDAGE with Leslie Howard. She received an Oscar nomination for this. Then went on to win two Oscars later.

She had a real tiff with Warner Brothers because they wouldn’t loan her to the studio that made “Gone With The Wind.” She wanted to play Scarlet O’Hara. I’m sorta glad they didn’t; I don’t think she would’ve made the Scarlet that Viviian Leigh did. But then, maybe I just got used to Leigh’s playing the role.

A few days ago I watched Betty Davis and Joan Crawford in WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE. She and Miss Crawford were fierce rivals. I think in this movie the rolls came naturally to each of them. But I think her movie DANGEROUS could be included; she received an Oscar for this one. But they are all good choices

Malryn, the book I have, although supposed to be a sequel, was NOT written by DuMaurier. So far I don't find it too interesting.

Lorrie, yes, sequels are so disappointing, did you read the sequel to "Gone With the Wind" that came out a few years ago? What drivel.

I never heard of a book about "Mrs. Rochester", how intriguing!

My mother saw Betty Davis in "Of Human Bondage" and hated her, then realized that it was the character she played that she hated. A tribute to Ms. Davis' skills as an actress. (:

I think my favorite was "All About Eve" a wonderful cast and, if anyone remembers, it was supposed to be a takeoff on Tallulah Bankhead.

Eileen..

What was the movie in which Gary Merrill plays the survivor of a plane crash, who goes to see the families of some who died in the crash. BD was wonderful as the wife of one of the victims - played a paralized woman. Does anyone remember this one?

Judy: Yes, yes, PHONE CALL FROM A STRANGER! I always thought this was an excellent movie, and terribly under-rated. The story was superb, the acting fine, and it had a genuinely touching ending! A very good movie.

Katy: I think, but not sure, that Mr. Skeffinton might have been a play, first. Many of the titles you don't see up here were books---we just don't have room for them all!

Bilsom: I agree. I'm glad Bette Davis didn't get the role of Scarlett. I don't think it would have worked. She was much better as a Southern belle in JEZEBEL.

Eileen: I'm intrigued by that book about the first Mrs. Rochester, think I'll get it. I'll probably be sorry. And yes, I thought Bette Davis was superb in OF HUMAN BONDAGE.

Lorrie

Your responses are great, everyone! Keep them coming!

Good morning. Excuse me, but,,, Eileen who wrote the Book the "First Mrs Rochester" I must have missed that. Please forgive me.

LORRIE: as a new comer to this folder. I had not realized you had discussed "Pride and Prejiduce".I shall be more careful in the future in asking. Babs

Oh my, Babs! We cannot discuss Jane Austen or any of her books too much. So do not apologize. We tell what our all time favorites are over and over here.

Me, I own videos of every movie Ever made of Austen's six books.

Babs: Just because the list above has a certain type of heading on it doesn't mean that other books cannot be discussed here. I'd like to stress that we're interested in any book that was made into a movie, and Jane Austen's books certainly fits into that mold! I, too, tried to watch all her books on A&E, weren't they wonderful! So please feel free to discuss any topic that comes into your mind, Babs! If you liked Jane Austen, then I'm sure you must have liked the Bronte sisters, too.

The book about the first Mrs. Rochester, if I'm not mistaken, is by an Australian author, and is called "Wide Sargossa Sea," by Jean Rhys, if I'm not mistaken. See Post #329. Anyway, that subject interests me, and I've just come back from the library where I reserved it! Again, I don't want you to feel that we must stick "strictly to schedule." Just look over at that bunch devouring chocolates in one corner and chomping popcorn in another! We treasure your participation, truly!

Lorrie

Absolutely LOVE Bette Davis. At one time I thought we might have been related cuz of similarities and the fact that I have Davis ancestry but not to be.

The book I mentioned that I absolutely loved was "The Dot and the Line" by Norton Juster. The dot was in love with a wild and unkempt squiggle. The line went on to become more than a straight line. It made squares, triangles, hexagons, and an infinite number of other shapes. Please realize this is a condensed version and imagine this on a movie screen. In time, he was dazzling, clever, mysterious, versatile, erudite, eloquent,profound, complex, and so many more. Its a mathematical fable.

Sounds like something I would love!

Shirley: What an interesting idea!! I can visualize a romance between the squiggle and the dot, in fact, it sounds a little Disneyesque to me. What an imagnation you have, our clever, complex, dazzling, mysterious, erudite, profound Shirley!

Lorrie

We talk here about atmosphere. How about the wonderful cast that supported Bette Davis in "The Letter?" I thought Gale Sondegaard was wonderful in that movie. It was even better than the book, in my opinion. Davis was wonderful as the bespectacled, calmly knitting wife who admitted killing her lover, and Herbert Marshall as her betrayed husband did a fine job. The ending was especially dramatic!

Lorrie

Good morning. I know these authors may be a little different, does anyone else enjoy books and movies from Louis L'Amour, and Larry McMurtry? I watched Lonesome Dove, several times on TV partly because our grandson liked it.

Have a good day

Margie

MARGIE...I love "Lonesome Dove" and own the video. I really woke up to who Tommy Lee Jones is in that movie, and ever since then I'm thinking that he doesn't look like he should without the white hair on his face and head. What a guy!

Love...Katie

Hi Katie, My husband and I both think Tommy Lee Jones, is great. He was perfect for the part in Lonesome Dove. Did you see the movie "The Fugitive"? We saw it at a theater and then on TV. He played a great Joker, in a Batman movie too. Love Margie

I believe George Brent and Herbet Marshall could help make any movie superb.

I was asked a Trivia question today on another website. It was about a famous book that was later made into a movie.

Question: What was the first novel ever written on a typewriter? I'm sure many of you know this, but just in case I'll give the answer and name of the web site in a later post.

Grani, and Katie: I can't imagine why no one has thought of "Lonesome Dove" and its sequel before this! Yes, grani, I loved that movie, and I have tried to watch Tommy Lee Jones ever since he appeared years ago in a movie where he wore a big, round black hat. I think he was portraying a Native American, I'm not sure. But he was also very good in that movie about the fugitive, remember?

Bisom, that's an intriguing question. I haven't the remotest idea of the answer, and breathlessly await your reply. First, tho, can you give us a clue?

Lorrie

Someone mentioned Louis Lamour - the first book of his that I read was "The Haunted Mesa". Its about the Anasazi piople in the prehistoric Southwest. I thought it was spell-binding. If it hasn't been made into a movie, it should be. Since reading this one I've become a Lamour fan -thought he was a good writer and a great storyteller.

Judy, in the West, the name Lois L'amour is treated with respect and admiration. His books are very real, and people living in that area say they are very true to life. THE HAUNTED MESA sounds very good. Another title I'll have to look into. Thanks for the tip, Judy!

Lorrie

Hi Judy, I have Haunted Mesa, in my collection. Have you read Education Of A Wandering Man? I think that Tom Sellek, Sam Elliot and Ben Johnson were perfectly cast in the movies made from his books. Margie

Someone here on SeniorNet is related to Louis Lamour...by marriage or genes, can't remember which. HELP, you old timers here!!! Who is it that I can't think of because of rampant CRS?

Love...Katie

Hi Granni, I saw “ Lonesome Dove” on TV and I thought it was a great series, untill it came to the episode where Robert Duvall was bringing his friend’s body home on a horse encased in plaster. Now, this scene and following scenes of this trip back (was it Texax?(depresed me so much, I could never bring myself to watch it again.

I saw a very good movie many, many years ago with George Brent and Dorothy McQuire (she played the part of a deaf mute) a real thriller, but I can’t recall the name.

The name of the trivia question I posted earlier is: TOM SAWYER and the web cite I was visiting was: www worldwideseniors.com

Bilsom, I think the movie with Dorothy M. and George B. was "the Circular Staircase". Also had Ethyl Barrymore in it. The book may have been by Mary Roberts Rinehart.

Bilson: THE CIRCULAR STAIRCASE was indeed a scary movie. Can you imagind George Brent, of all people, as a psychopathic murderer? By the way, congratulations on winning the trivia question! Did anyone else guess it?

Katie: I'd like to know who is related to Louis Lamour, also, and I've mentioned it in a couple more discussions. Told them if they knew to post here.

Ginger: Well, that was a great post!! Did i forget to tell you that you're doing such a good job keeping this viewing room all tidied up, that starting now, your pay will be increased 50%! Seriously, though, we all love to see you here and hope you can come back often.

Grani: It's good to have another books/movies lover, and like to hear from you at any time. If your memory ever needs refreshing about books and movies, just ask Bilsom here. She's a walking encyclopedia. hahaha

Lorrie

Bilsom, I thought Robert Duvall was the one who died in Lonesome Dove and that Tommy Lee Jones carried his body all the way back to Texas from Montana on a horse.

Ginger: A Girl of The Limberlost was one of my favorite books as a child. The book I had belonged to my Mother when She was a child! It was by Gene Stratton Porter, I think. Have not looked this up, am just going by a faulty memory, so am not sure. I can still never look at a butterfly without thinking of that book.

I read an interesting interview in the new People (agg, she reads People? I read everything) about Michael Caine who said in essence that the reason he acts is that somebody can call "Action," and 60 bored people standing around a set somehow combine to make people say, Oh yes, that's an orphanage in 1943. That's why he does it, he creates something out of nothing.

Ars Gratia Artis, Art for the Sake of Art.

I got thinking that that is what we're doing here, in the Books, we're creating something out of nothing, and if I may say so, you all have done a bang up job of it, too!

I've not read THE CIDER HOUSE RULES, and having seen the movie, don't think I will. The acting was fine but the themes are a bit overpowering and for the most part, negative. Didn't come away with a good feeling after that one and the little boy, Curley, just broke my heart with that smile and that suitcase! He looked just like my youngest son with that smile except my youngest did have curly hair. Broke my heart, surely they didn't go about adoptions in that way.

Ginny

Ginny, I didn't see the movie, but I did read the book, and it was a long one! I liked it very much, and I have to admire Irving for condensing it down the way he did in order to write the screenplay. Somewhere I read that he'll be nominated for an Oscar in the Writing category for doing just that.

Lorrie

Lorrie,

Thanks for THE CIRCULAR STAIRCASE. I wouldn't have come up with the title. Yes that role was a complete departure for George Brent. I didn't win the trivia question; The question and answer were both given on another web.

Mary Page, I think you are right about Robert Duvall being the one who died in "Lonsome Dove." I just thought of the gruesomeness of it and typed away.(that body encased in plaster)

I read "To Kill A Mocking Bird" and saw the picture, both many years ago. I'd like to hear what all of you thought about these.

Hi Ginny and thanks. I read in the car, when we go on long drives and in the evenings watching TV with my hubby. I read Cider House Rules, a while back and saw the movie on TV. I enjoy reading biographies too, especially historical ones.

I read Louis L'Amour's Education Of A Wandering Man. Margie

With all our conversation about other books, we forgot about our star of the week, Bette Davis! How many of you had the good sense to tape "Now, Voyager" from the movie in the wee small hours last night on Turner Classic Movies? I see in the reviews, it is given a four-star rating, and that's to be expected! There was a stellar cast in that one, also, as were so many of Bette Davis' movies. And the background music! Davis even said herself that many of the scenes she dis would not come off as well without the music of Max Steiner, who wrote many of the melodies.

Lorrie

Raina: I think the people you might be looking to hook up with can be found in the WRITER'S EXCHANGE Writer's ExchangeThis is a group of published and unpublished writers---I'm sure they would love to hear from you.

Lorrie

One small correction, the Dorothy McGuire movie was "The Spiral Staircase" made in 1946.

I read the "Mrs. deWinter" book by Susan Hill, supposedly a sequel to "Rebecca" - very disappointing.

I think I'll wait on the "Mrs. Rochester" book until after someone else has read it. (:

EM

To Kill a Mocking Bird, book and picture, both great. Book, as is usually the case, the best. But I think the movie won all sorts of awards, did it not?

AND...IT'S ON TONIGHT!!!

8:00 EST on TCM.

One more Betty Davis movie worth mentioning is "Hush...Hush Sweet Charolete" Olivia de Haveland co-starred in this with Miss Davis. Some how I get this movie mixed with "What Ever Happened To Baby Jane."

I read an article some time ago, or else heard it on TV that Miss. de Haveland was related in some way to the manufactuers of the de Haveland bomber of WW11 fame.

Eileen: Wise decision! Cheap as I am, I've decided to wait for a library copy rather than buying the book about Rochester's first wife.

Katie: Thanks for the announcemment! And I'm still looking for whoever it is that's related to Louis Lamour!

Mary Page: I simply loved "Mockingbird," and yes, it won all kinds of awards. Especially at a time when the Civil Rights Movement was just beginning to take hold.

Bilsom: Funny you should say that. I always confused the two Bette Davis movies, too, until I remembered that Joan Crawford was in "Baby Jane." It's really amusing----both Bette Davis and Joan Crawford hated each other with a vengeance. They sure didn't have to act much in that movie, but act they did!!

Lorrie

Yesssssss Eileen! The SPIRAL Staircase!!! Will never forget it--don't remember how old I was but it abso-bloomin'-lutely scared the pants off me!!! A Mary Roberts Rinehart novel but there's a case where the movie was even more effective!

I never cared much for Bette Davis, so sorry; mostly lurking here while you all talk about her. I do think she made a marvelous Queen Elizabeth I.

Here's my pert and pithy review on the book about Rochester's first wife, The Wide Sargasso Sea... don't bother.

Jeryn: Thanks for the succinct tip! I'm always grateful if someone tells me not to waste my time or money on a book, because they're usually always right. Besides, I think reading some poor adaptation of a former character in Jane Eyre would spoil the re-reading of the book.

Lorrie

I've just been reading some of Bette Davis' biography, and do you know, if she were alive today, she'd be 92 years old??? To tell the truth, in her last few movies, she looked that age and more, but who cares? I've always admired her resolute spirit, and fierce independence. She never let anyone push her around!

Lorrie

I found "The WIDE Sagarsso Sea" very interesting and enjoyed it - a very short book and not "a poor adaption of a former character". Rhys is very imaginative in developing a story about a minor character in Jane Eyre.

Jeryn, thanks for the tip - after reading the awful "Mrs deWinter", I had a feeling that "Mrs Rochester" would be another waste of time.

The only sequel that I can think of that was pretty successful was "The 7% Solution" a Sherlock Holmes mystery written by, I think, Nicholas Meyer. . . .that I did like.

Lorrie, i admired BD, gutsy lady, but I think like many of the greats, she had an enormous ego and probably was difficult to be around.

Eileen

Judy: Now that's interesting! Nothing like two different viewpoints on the same book. I've reserved it at the library, so I'm holding judgement.

Eileen: You're absolutely right! With Davis, her career came first, above all else, and she even admitted it played havoc with her personal life!

Lorrie

Some time ago, we mentioned Joan crawford. Another had-working actor who played in a lot of films that had been books. One, in particular, was a mmovie that i thought was much better than the book---"Mildred Pierce." Did any of you ever see it? Ann Blyth was excellent as the hateful daughter, and the whole cast was good!

Lorrie

Lorrie, oh yes, indeed, I do remember "Mildred Pierce". I thought Ann Blythe must really be a nasty person because she played her so well - of course she wasn't - she was actually a very sweet lady. This was one of the few movies that I remember Joan C. playing a victim you sympathized with. There was one other movie that she was in that she was a sympathetic character, she had a scar and ended up in prison? I also loved Zachary Scott in MP at the time. Egan, what year was that? I must have been a teenager. (:

Eileen

Mildred Pierce! The year was 1945, and the movie was based on a book by James M. Cain, who wrote a lot of books that became films. You know, I live in sn apartment complex here for seniors only, and I had volunteered to show a movie downstairs evey Wednesday night, which I rented from the nearest video rental. But do you know, it became increasingly difficult to find a movie that wasn't full of obscenities and gratuitous sex--none of us wanted that, so I found myself more and more turning to the Ted Turner Cahnnel and taping old movies, like "Mildred Pierce" and old Bette Davis films, Clark Gable, all the old stars,and these people love them!! Many of these older people had seen the movies years ago, but were overjoyed to watch it again. Says something for our times, doesn't it?

Lorrie

Okay, everybody! With all the interest shown in this year's choice of Academy Award winners, I thought it would be good to discuss them, for a change of topic. Ginger has straightened out our "viewing room, and tidied up the candy wrappers and loose popcorn, and we're waiting for Mary Page to bring her good chocolates, so while we're waiting let's talk about the "Oscars!"

LORRIE...I'm always willing to talk about most anything, but I think it's only fair to tell you that I'm not really qualified to discuss the Oscars, since I haven't seen one single picture or actor that has been nominated. Can you tell that I wait until they are out on video before I get around to seeing them? I certainly am interested in what everyone else here has to say. I've read all the "experts"!

Love...Katie

Katie: Dang it all, I wanted to stress that we'd be talking about all Oscar nominees, not just this year's. Of course you haven't seen them all. I don't know about you other people but, because of my hearing, I don't go to theatres any more. I wait and then rent or buy the tape, and then I can control the volume at home. I should have made that clearer in the heading! What about movie you saw that you thought should have been nominated? I sometimes wonder myself how they get to their decisions.

Lorrie

All stocked up in the far right corner. No, no, we are not the "conservative" corner. Actually, we have a huge pile of vanilla, chocolate, peppermint, peanut butter and maple fudge fresh in from Stone Harbor, New Jersey, and this we will "liberally" share.

So what's showing?

p.s. no, no nuts. sorry. don't like nuts in MY fudge!

MARY PAGE and MALRYN...we in Northern Michigan, famous for it's fudge, LOVE nuts in it! We call the tourists "Fudgies" because they all buy some before they go home. It's possible some of them don't like nuts...you CAN buy fudge without...but I wouldn't call them connoisseurs. Hehehe! Sorry 'bout that! I realize nuts irritate some people's throats, but I could live on nothing but walnuts and pecans.

Love...Katie

Okay, it looks like we've got three groups going here. On the far left, there are the popcorn lovers, in the middle are the fudge-with-nuts crowd, and in the far right, the chocolate lovers and eaters of fudge-without nuts. I'll be sort of half-way in between the popcorn people and the lovers of fudge-with-nuts. Yes, Katie, I'm with you. "Fudge without nuts ain't no fudge at all--Cain't help lovin' those nuts of mine" tra la la

Lorrie

This group may sound like a lot of things, but one thing it does not sound like is a meeting of Weight Watchers. hahahaha

That's okay, Ginger, you've earned it! Help yourself! And let us know which movie you saw and how you liked it!

Mal: Hi, there! Just spotted your name in with the refreshment planning bunch! Come and join us--would you like to sit in the corner with the non-nuts fudge crowd? I have to warn you, keep any popcorn away from Mary Page, she can't stand the smell!

Lorrie

Speaking of Oscar winners, how many of us actually remember some of the previous winners? Here's a comment from a reviewer from Movie Reviews: No one was seriously surprised when Titanic won the Oscar for best picture. But now it's time to ask the next question: Will it be remembered? Will we still watch Titanic 10 years from now, or 20, or 30? Or will it become, half a century hence, as forgotten a winner as Cavalcade or Cimmaron? One way to test the timelessness of the Academy's choices for best picture is to look back at previous winners and judge whether or not we still recognize and watch them. In order to cut the list down to manageable size yet still consider a representative sampling, we can borrow a concept from wine snobbery and perform the video equivalent of a vertical tasting -- call it a "vertical viewing" -- by skipping back from the present in 10-year increments to test the longevity of these earlier-honored classics !

1997...............................................”The English Patient”
1987..............................................”The Last Emperor”
1977...............................................”Annie Hall”
1967...............................................”In the Heat of the Night”
1957................................................”Bridge Over the River Kwai”

1937................................................”Life of Emile Zola”

Lorrie

LORRIE..."Heat of the Night" and "Bridge" are my choices for being still watchable. Never did see "English Patient" or all of "Annie Hall", and I can't tell you why...they just didn't sound like "my" kind of movie. I enjoyed "Last Emperor" and own the video, but have only seen it twice. "Emile Zola" was before my time. HAHAHA! That's a joke. I do remember it, but it's not one I'm running to the store for. I'll pick "In the Heat of the Night" for my favorite. How can we ever forget, "They call me Mister Tibbs!"?

Love...Katie

I do go to the movies with my pal, Joyce, but the pickin's are poor and the crop is lean. We did see "American Beauty" and we thought it stunk to high heaven - if that is even a skewed mirror of life in suburbs we are in a lot of trouble.

We saw "Runaway Bride", a movie that proved you don't have to have graphic sex scenes and foul language to entertain. It was a great romantic comedy with two stars who don't need to use those crutches.

We did see "The English Patient", scenically quite beautiful but we did not enjoy the story.

Eileen

Lorrie, I like popcorn a heck of a lot better than I like fudge. I'm in the opposite corner from my friend, MaryPage.

The other night my daughter, her friend and I watched a video of "The Buena Vista Social Club". Has anyone seen it? I loved watching those old guys play their music in this different kind of a documentary. Ruben Gonsalves, the piano player, was over eighty when the film was made. Could he bang out those tunes! One of the guitar players was 90. As I posted somewhere, (I hope not here!) it made me want to sit at the piano and play for hours.

I think Bette Davis was born before her time. A very strong woman and a feminist, I think. She's someone I'd love to have met.

I was going to talk about movies I liked in the past, but just pulled a blank. That's what Spring in Apple Chill, NC does to me.
Mal

Last night I watched the video cassette movie “ Dark Victory”--it’s great we have these good old movies on tape. I can well understand Bette Davis receiving an Oscar for her acting in this movie.

But I was impressed with the role the young Humphrey Bogart played as “Michael” the stable manager. I was amused with Bogart using an Irish brogue; At first, I found it almost comic for him. But as he got more immersed in the role, I soon realized here was the versatile, fine actor that we knew and appreciated. If his part in the movie had been any larger, he’d of stole the show. He almost did.

Lorrie, I think the 1957 BRIDGE OVER THE RIVER KWAI will be the one of that group to last forever.

I believe I saw every movie on that particular list.

Katie: Yes, and they even made another movie, and called it "They Call Me Mr. Tibbs!" Not as good as "Heat OF" of course. Did you like the TV series with Carroll O'Connor as well?

Eileen: You're not the first one to say that about American Beauty. To tell the truth, I think this is one that I'll do without seeing.

Mal: "Buena Vista Social Club" sounds wonderful! And that would be right up your alley as a present-day pianist and former entertainer! Personally, I think the love of music is ageless. I watched a foreign film once, a strange one, about a young Austrian peasant who loved music so much, he was able to make the pipes for his own organ, and play it, and without ever being able to read a note of music, wrote some really magnificent hymns! Astounding!

Bilsom: Now you're talking about one of Bette Davis' authentic tear-jerkers. A four hankie movie, at least. I liked Bogart, too, that man really had something, didn't he?

Mary Page: Even Alec Guiness, in one of his interviews, said that "Bridge" was one of his favorites. I read the book, but the printed word didn't have the same impact, for instance, as the scene where William Holden was setting the bomb. Great!

Lorrie

I'll clean up while you are off to all those fab places, Ginger.

But we are getting a bad rap over here in the far right corner: we Always bring a trash bag and throw everything in it and take it out with us when we leave. Any and All candy wrappers you find are from something Someone Else has brought in.

Probably those Nut cases sitting in the other corner!

Humphrey Bogart was never a favorite of mine until I saw "The African Queen" - he was absolutely marvelous in it. After seeing him in that movie, I started to pay attention to what a really fine actor he was. I finally appreciated his work in "The Treasure of Sierra Madre" and so many others.

I can think of several movies that couldn't possibly do justice to the books. "Hawaii" is a good example - that would be a ten hour movie if it were done properly. I don't think you could have enjoyed watching "Dune" unless you had read the book - it was way too convoluted. I'm a scifi fan so I did like it. (:

Eileen

In 1994, a 73 year old man named Alvin Straight learned that his brother from whom he had been estranged for 10 years had had a stroke.

Alvin had no car, his eyesight was extremely poor, he needed two canes to walk, and no busses went to his brother's home. But he did have a lawnmower, so he set out on the 350 mile drive from Iowa to Wisconsin on his riding lawnmower, Alvin Straight towing a small wagon.

And though everybody thought he was crazy, didn't understand what he was doing or why, he persevered. And made it.

Disney has just made a movie about this true story of courage and perseverance, called The Straight Story, filmed on the very same roads he drove with some of the very same people he met. You can read more about it here: The Straight Story .

Richard Farnsworth, the 79 year old actor who played Alvin Straight, is up for an Oscar tonight for Best Actor.

When I saw it, it reminded me of the Books, of all things? Do you ever have to EXPLAIN what you're doing here, not only to friends or family, but even to others who are on the Internet and who ought to understand. but don't?

Alvin's example was of the overwhelming dignity of man and the worth of the smallest effort. It was a beautiful if very quiet paen to believing in yourself no matter where you are or in what circumstances you find yourself, no matter how small your effort may seem to others.

I want to keep his example somewhere always in the Books as a Mascot, if you don't think that's too hokey, because he sure as heck inspired me.

Ginny

Two books worth mentioning: “Centennial” by Michner. I read this book many years ago and what a great experience I enjoyed when I was reading it!! If you decide to read this story, get ready for a real entertaining education in how our country was developed and in good story form, too. But as you know, Michner goes into a lot of detail. I saw the video of this story on TV with David Jansen. It was very good, but, of course, not like the book.

The other book was “Once An Eagle” I can’t remember the author. Sam Elliot played in the TV adaptation. Good, but not near as good as the book Itis about Army life and war that spanned many years and many wars. And the life of an enlisted man that rose from the rank of Private to Four-Star General. This was one of the few books I read twice. For those that like this kind of story, do your self a favor and read it. And even if this not your cup of tea, do your self a favor and read it. Tremendous. You’ll like it.

Eileen, I liked DUNE as well. The movie no where near did it justice, but I enjoyed watching the movie to see how they would portray the various regions and peoples, etc.

ginny, I haven't seen "The Straight Story" yet, but I'm going to make sure I do, because every single review of this book has been glowing! It's such a relief to find a simple, heartwarming story these days, isn't it? I'll be watching the Oscars tonight, but I'm not really enthused about the nominees. I would really like to see Richard Farnsworth win an award. He deserves it!

Okay, you guys, 'fess up! How many of you people watch the Academy Awards just to see what everyone's wearing? Tell the truth, now!

Lorrie

I just finished watching "Shadowlands" on USA channel and it was wonderful! Of course, in my opinion, any movie that Anthony Hopkins is in is wonderful! Anyway....I was interested to hear him quote the line from which the movie title came.

"We all live in shadowlands. The sun is always shining around the bend in the road or over the brow of the hill."

Does anyone know if this movie was taken from a book about Lewis? I used to study some of his writing in college--The Screwtape Letters is the one I remember right now.

Phyll

Phyll: Yes, Shadowlands is a wonderful movie! The book was called "Shadowlands---The story of C.S. Lewis' Life with Joy Grisham" by Brian Sibley.

A wonderful story, and a true one, to boot.

Lorrie

Loved "Shadowlands" also and I stayed up to watch the Oscars - my husband even got involved and stayed awake - but I always watch them no matter how late they are on. Yes, of course, I like to see the gowns, but I like to see how Hollywood does their own thing also.

The only movie I saw that was nominated was "The Cider House Rules" - I thought it was good. Tried to read the book, but put it down after a truly terrible sex scene in it and just never picked it back up. Was packing for a trip anyway and it was one that didn't get in the car - back to the Library it went later unread.

Glad to know American Beauty was not worth seeing - I thought I might go to see what all the hullabooloo was about! What about the Insider and the Sixth Sense - anybody seen those?

I saw The Sixth Sense and I highly recommend it.

It was a word-of-mouth winner as a movie. The makers did not expect much of it, and it has beaten all sorts of records in the percentage of profits to cost.

The Sixth Sense has a Most unexpected ending, and the beauty of it is that I have read much reference to this fact, but Not Once have I run into anyone, Anyone!, telling what that ending is. Everyone appreciates it just too much to want to spoil it for anyone else. It is sort of like this huge secret everyone is mutally keeping.'

I did not watch the Oscars, but I heard this morning on the news that there was not much to the gowns to see. That is, the gowns were very skimpy and not even barely covering. There seems to be an "I Can Be More Naked In Public Than You!" thing going on. So glad I am not a part of it!

I didn't see American Beauty." It sure would've had to be very good to finish ahead of "Green Mile." I can't help but feel that favoritsm plays a big part in the Oscar selections.

Another good book made into movie was "The Caine Muteney. I can still see Humphrey Bogart, as Captain Queeg, rateling those metal balls during the courts martial. Van Johnson also stared in this picture.

I was so disgusted by the Oscars program!! I didn't agree with any of the awards, and even though I haven't seen "American Beauty" I've heard it's not all that great. I would have liked to see "The Green Mile" win something, and as far as I'm concerned, Richard Farnsworth should have been the best actor recipient. He did such a wonderful job in "The Straight Story." The program was way too long, and those acceptance speeches boring as could be. I think the only redeeming part of the whole program was when Burt Bacharach led the group in a medley of past Awards songs. Anywy, that's how I felt about that lousy show! So there!

Lorrie

Well, that's a great review, Lorrie, and makes me just delighted that I spent that time finishing the Potter book and
s-l-e-e-p-i-n-g!!

Well, maybe that was a little strong, but I did feel that it was a waste of time. However, I did learn that over on cable, where they had the annual Independent Filmmakers Awards, that Richard Farnsworth was granted their best actor prize, so that makes me feel a little better>

Lorrie

Well, I didn't spend time watching the Oscars Awards, But my daughter did and she was very taken with the tributes Michael Caine(sp) gave. could any one ask for a more sincere individual.? Babs

Babs: You're absolutely right! I mean your daughter is. I forgot about Michael Caine's acceptance speech. It was wonderful. He was self-effacing, generous in praise to his co-stars and other nominees, and simply exceedingly charming. I had forgotten about this redeeming part'

Lorrie

Lorrie, I guess all this nice things about him is why he is now "SIR" Michael Caine. Babs

I didn't know that he'd been knighted!! That's wonderful. I've always liked him. You should have seen his expression when Bacharach and crew were doin their rendition of "Alfie." You could see it brought back memories. Did you ever see Michael Caine in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels? With Steve Martin? That was one of the funniest tales of two con men I've ever seen. Hilarious!

I've seen every movie Michael Caine has ever made. I even have his autobigraphy. I love him to pieces, and as soon as Shakira gets outta there, if ever, I'M MOVIN'IN!

I haven't seen any of the Oscar movies yet, but definitely will see "American Beauty". Not for the plot, which, from what I heard is not very endearing, but for the performances of Kevin Spacey and Annette Bening. He is one of the greatest actors ever, and I learned to love Annette in "American President". Sorry she didn't win the award, but I guess the actress who did really deserved it, too.

I've not made up my mind whether to see "Sixth Sense" or not, but MARY PAGE's comments are luring me. I can't stand Bruce Willis. I saw The Kid interviewed several times on TV and he was just plain obnoxious, I thought...so "full of himself", as my sainted MIL used to say. Will think on it some more.

I will definitely see "The Straight Story". I've been racking my brain trying to remember all the other shows Richard Farnsworth has been in, and driving myself crazy! Help!

Love...Katie

I don't know, I've been wondering that, too, Katie, I hope somebody can tell us, I know he was a stuntman for a long time, maybe in Westerns. I'm delighted to hear from Lorrie he did win something, can't take away from Kevin Spacey, he's really good, but so was Farnsworth, I expect they all were.

I was astounded to turn on the TV at midnight and see Roberto Benigni giving out best actress, I hate that Bening didn't get it, it must be bittersweet for the ensemble.

I did see American Beauty and found it very dark and strange, very strange.

In fact I thought (not having seen The Green Mile) that the Farnsworh movie was the only one I saw including Cider House Rules which actually left you feeling good about issues and people. You felt good about the Caine character (hate I missed his speech) and the young man I guess who he trained in more than one way to take his part kindly with the children, but there was much too much underlying that one and American Beauty to linger in the mind.

TV Guide picked Farnsworth as "shoud win." But he didn't.

If the movie had been edited better it might have been up for Best Picture too.

I can't stand to watch Joan Rivers, especially knowing how her remarks hurt, witness Edie Falco's upset at being ridiculed at her appearance. She didn't even COME to the last one, SAG where The Sopranos walked off with it all once again including Best Ensemble Cast. I hope it wasn't because of Mrs. Rivers.

Ginny

GINNY...glad I didn't see MISS Rivers (she was MRS. something else, whatever Edgar's name was.) last night. The last time I saw her, on QVC, she looked almost Oriental, due to her last face lift. She can be so hurtful! She has said things on QVC that I couldn't believe came out of someone's mouth.

It bugs me that HBO shows win so many awards, because I refuse to pay for HBO for maybe one show a week worth watching. Let's hear it for awards to free shows only!

HOLD IT!!! I looked in my movie book for Richard Farnsworth...we sure have seen him in lots of non-stunt roles! Like in "Anne of Green Gables", "The Natural", Lassie", "The Grey Fox", "Independence Day", "Havana" and many others that are unfamiliar to me. There! Now I feel better. I can visualize him in those movies.

Love...Katie

I didn't think the Oscar show was well done at all. Not near as good as two-years ago. Warren Beaty almost put me to sleep with his honory acceptance speach. I thought Jack Nicholson tried to hurry him up bit. However, Billy Crystal's opening comedy was very good. He usually is.

Ginny, thanks for saying "American Beauty" was strange I'll avoid that. Don't like those "strange" ones. I thought the "English Patient" was like that. Couldn't watch the video in it's entirety.

The young actor in The Sixth Sense is truly an outstanding and astonishing actor. If you see it, you will be well and truly amazed. I am a big fan.

Katie,

You beat me to it! Richard Farnsworth was wonderful in Anne of Green Gables and darn it! I can't remember the name of that great actress who played in that movie, too. She was also Murphy Brown's "mother" on t.v. when she died. I loved her deep raspy voice. Anyone remember her name?

I'm not sure that Michael Caine has been knighted. Charles Gibson said on GMA this morning that the queen ought to get off her duff and make him SIR Michael! If he isn't knighted already I expect he will be soon, don't you?

Phyll

She was married to the actor who played Patton, George Scott. Married him twice and divorced him twice. Had two sons by him. Was my favorite actress. Died a couple of years ago.

The name has Flown out of my head. Back later!

MARY PAGE...25 years or so ago I saw Colleen Dewhurst and Jason Robards on Broadway in "Moon For the Misbegotten" and we were in the second row, right on the aisle. I almost reached out and touched her bare feet in more than one scene. She was SO wonderful, and he was, too, for that matter. And I loved her in "Anne of Green Gables" and "Murphy Brown"! I think she was vastly underappreciated, except for her stage work.

Love...Katie

Katie, I absolutely adored her.

I think smoking killed her, but I am not sure.

nyway, they recognized Farnworth as a true artist, and named him Best Actor of the Year at their annual awards. This event is deliberately scheduled "laid-back" so you don't see all the evening gowns and glitter you do at the Oscar awards. Most of the recipient accept in jeans and sweaters, etc, and Farnsworth came up to the podium in his usual "farmer" garb. It was refreshing to watch, without all that hoopla!

Lorrie

Darn I hate I missed that, would liked to have seen him!

Ginny

Bilsom, could you click on my name and write me, please??

Ginny

I received a letter from a lady who asked me why we didn't talk about books on cooking, etc. Well, I was trying hard to think of any cook books that made it into movies, unless you want to count "The Galloping Gourmet" who was on TV some time ago. Maybe there's a mystery somewhere titled something like "Murder 'Mongst the Pots and Pans," or "Who Strangled Julia Childs!" or my favorite,"I Was Ordered to "Hit" Martha Stewart!" hahaha Anybody knoe of any cookbooks that Hollywood grabbed up?

Lorrie

Ginny, in regards to "American Beauty", I can't believe that the middle-aged generation in this country is remotely like anyone portrayed in this movie . it apparently is a satire of suburbia . . . heaven help us . . . definitely Hollywood style.

MaryPage, I agree the movie "Dune" didn't do justice to the book and I think unless you read the book you would have been completely baffled by the movie. BTW, I didn't enjoy the following "Dune' books as much as the first one - they seemed to get far more convoluted.

I'll have to rent the Farnsworth movie, it looks really good.

Eileen

There is a movie about "Who Killed the Great Chefs of Europe", or something like that. Have no idea if it was a book or not. It was a goodie, as I remember.

Katie Sturtz, I have to agree with you. Hallie--The Kid--comes acros to me as being a real "phony."

I saw him on the Larry King show several weeks ago--blinking eyes and all. Not my idea of the typical American youngster.

But I think I will see the sixth sense the plot and the various prevues I've seen look prety good. I'll just have to ignore the blinking eyes.

I recently saw "The Sixth Sense" and thought it very good. The ending was such a surprise I wanted to see it again to verify my feeling that I should have guessed what was coming. Have also visited several web sites about it; some mention various clues.

Lorrie, are you sure that person meant Books into Movies? There is a book discussion of cook books and I think it is Home on the Range. Will take a look to see if that is it.

Lorrie, are you sure that person meant Books into Movies? There is a book discussion of cook books and I think it is Home on the Range. Will take a look to see if that is it.Yes, that is the name and it is in General Discussion in the index.

Yes, Shirley, I do believe she wandered in here by mistake. But it's okay, I gave her some popcorn and some of Mary page's chocolates, and pointed her in the right direction. And you're right--it is "Home on the Range."

Lorrie

I am currently reading John Grisham's "THE Chamber" and I AM quite sure I saw it as a movie on TV some time ago. I"M trying to remember who played the old man = GENE Hackman, maybe? And who played his grandson and lawyer? Anybody out there seen the movie? It's a very interesting character study as well as a sharp criticism of the death penalty.

Eileen, I agree, the sequels to DUNE just did not measure up. This is so Often the case.

Which reminds me, speaking of sequels, is anyone anywhere near as old as I and can remember the JALNA books (Canadian) and the movie that was made, I believe, of several put together. In fact, I think there was more than just the one movie and there were about 20 books. The Whiteoaks of Jalna, etc.

Katie and Bilsom, I am crazy about the little boy in The Sixth Sense. He is an extremely bright youngster, way ahead of his years, and is used to the company of adults. Therefore, he tends to speak more as we do and less as one of his years. He has a marvelous sense of humor and was a riot when he explained how he got his name. I have already forgotten how it was, but remember it was very funny. I think he wears glasses normally, and not in film or when being interviewed.

Gail G. You are absolutely right! The movie The Chamber was made in 1996, with Gene Hackman as the grandfather in prison, and an actor named Adam Hall played the lawyer and grandson. Faye Dunaway was in it, too. I didn't see the movie, but the reviews are terrific, and I did enjoy the book. Ilike most all of Grisham's novels. Incidentally, readers, that Internet Movie Data Base is a godsend: http://www.imdb.com/

Lorrie

Mary Page, I haven't thought about those Jalna books in eons! I used to love all the sagas about the Whiteoaks, and I fell in love early with the main hero, I can't even remember his name. At that time I thought they were the greatest books ever written, but I suppose today I'd sneer at them. I hope not, because I tried not to miss reading any of the Whiteoaks family problems. Golly, do you realize how long ago that was? I think we're both giving away something here! hahaha

Lorrie

MaryPage and Lorrie, I can join the "Jalna" club too. Only problem is as much as I liked them, I can't remember a darn thing about them!

Gail, I think that boy is charming too. I've seen him in several interviews and thought he acquited himself very nicely.

Eileen

Jalna: Wasn't there an Irish girl named, I think, Adelaide? And she married this Handsome Englishman named, what? Philip? Whiteoaks. And they bought this property in Ontario. I think Windsor was the nearest town? Very near the Great Lake that is there. And they built a house, and we went all through the house building and the tree planting. And they had 5 or 6 children. Piers was one, and I think it was he who had a daughter named Pheasant. Augustine was one and Louisa, I think. Handsome died, but she lived to be 100 I think. Anyway, the uncles were Quite old when she died. I think they actually had a family reunion for her 100th. The youngest grandson inherited the property. His name began with R. Robby? Something like that. Ricky? I think it was more inventive than those 2, but cannot remember what it was. They had Horses. Quite a lot of them. That's about it, for my memory. But LA, how I loved those books. The writer is on the tip of my tongue. De La Mare? Help, someone!

MAZO de la ROCHE. I looked up "Jalna" with the search engine. She wrote of the period 1852 to 1954! 102 years of the Whiteoak family! She won a literary prize for Jalna.

Lorrie: Adam Hall was the name of the character in "The Chamber". He was Sam Cayhall's (the old man played by Gene Hackman) grandson who became his lawyer. Would you believe I checked that link you gave for the movie database and asked for the name of the actor who played that role they came back with "no one named Adam Hall was in "the chamber". Next to Hackman, HE was the main character!

PBS is currently airing a more recent Rebecca. It's a two parter the first part was on Sunday night while the Oscars were on. Thank goodness for VCRs. The second part will be on this coming Sunday night. Dianna Riggs plays the part of "Danny" Danvers.

Gail G. Wasn't that a ridiculous answer? For Pete's sake, all you have to do is scroll down where they list the cast of The Chamber and Adam Hall's name is right there!

Eileen, can you believe this Mary Page? Like you I remember the Jalna books but can't remember anything like the charcters' names or anything. Did you get all that from research, Mary? If so, good job!

Bilsom, I saw the rendition of Rebecca Sunday night and I wish I hadn't. Even though I like Charles Dance and admire Diana Riggs' acting, it just didn't seem right to me. They did follow the book exactly, as far as I could see, though. I just can't picture anyone but Lawrence Olivier as Max deWinter, Joan Fontine and Judith Anderson, also. Remakes are seldom as good as the original.

Lorrrie

Just popping in to check on the status of the popcorn, Hershey bars and pop! Looks like everyone has plenty to eat. Don't forget to clean up after yourselves.

Was so surprised to see "Jalna" discussed as I started them years ago but never finished. So glad MaryPage can remember all that! Wow! Some memory!

Has anyone mentioned the R.F. Delderfield books? They were interesting and historically correct but I don't think that they were made into movies.

Yes, Casablanca was a special movie but, in the remake, David Soul, for pete's sake? What a blunder for casting! The man can't act!

Ann: How true! I never did think David soul went beyond the boudaries of his performances in Starsky and Hutch.

It's encouraging to see how many of the Oscar nominees and winners were from books. I'm still disappointed in the choices, but in all fairness, I haven't seen "American Beauty," and it may be as good as they say. People I've talked to didn't like it, however.

Lorrie

Ann, I thought A Horseman Riding By was made into a movie by the British some years ago and appeared on public tv. I believe this is so, and that I thought it not a very good job!

Did anyone read WEST WITH THE NIGHT by Beryl Markham? She wrote 2 books, actually, and they were quite wonderful; especially this one. They made a movie about her; I have forgotten the name of it, but it was on either public tv or A&E. There was also a bit about her, or an actress playing her appeared, in Dineson's OUT OF AFRICA. Let's see, I think Markham was the woman Dineson's husband was having an affair with.

Yup, Mary Page, that's right! Beryl Markham was played by that actress who was such a good friend to William Holden, right to the end, what was her name, Stephanie something? C'mon, Mary Page! And yes, there was mention of The Baroness from Out of Africa. Beryl Markhame's biography was a wonderful book!

Lorrie

LORRIE...Stephanie Powers.

How nice to have support during these "Senior moments," Katie. haha

Lorrie: Duh.....I still don't know who played Adam Hall in The Chamber.

I just found a listing of Books Into Movies on the net. Here is the URL: http://shaw.hhpl.on.ca/library/hhpl/ra/MOVIES.htm

Try it!

Movie=The Chamber

Starring as the grandfather=Gene Hackman

Playing the grandson=Chris O'Donnell

Ann, that link is priceless!!! Thank you so much. Up until now, whenever I mention a good book and wonder if it was ever made into a movie, I had to go through three different steps to fine out. This way i can tell at a glance. You're a sweetie! Somebody give this lady an extra box of popcorn!

Lorrie

Last night at Bridge, somebody mentioned that "Cider House Rules" was about abortion. Now I haven't read the book yet, but is that true? Funny don't remember reading that anywhere, and that usually causes a storm of controversy.

Lorrie

I read that Michael Caine thanked Planned Parenthood and the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) at the end of his acceptance speech. I have read many times that the movie had an abortion theme in it, though it was not the main story.

Have not read the book or seen the movie, so cannot report first hand.

Hi, gang! Where's the popcorn? I'm celebrating today! The WREX Pages and the Writers Exchange WREX are listed as featured discussions on SeniorNet's home page, and both are listed in the New Discussion area. Hooray, and thank you, Marcie! I hope you'll take a look at The WREX Pages and see what SeniorNet WREX writers can do. Lorrie has a fine story in this WREX magazine, now published under the auspices of SeniorNet. Go see!

Yes, The Cider House Rules is about abortion and a doctor who sniffs ether to manage the load he carries. I read it when it first came out and must dig it out and refresh my memory. A most marvelous book, well-written. John Irving is a masterful writer, in my opinion. I have not seen the movie, but will when it is a video.

Mal

Hi, Mal! It's great to see you in here! I think I can ssfely say that a lot of our posters in these and other discussions will be watching every issue of the WREX pages, I know I will because you were kind enough to run some of my stories. I missed that part of Caine's acceptance speech, but I thought the first part, where he acknowledged all the other nominees, was very gracious! Somebody give Mal here some popcorn, and help yourself to some of Mary Page's wonderful chocolates. She's over in the corner because she hates the smell of popcorn!

Lorrie

We are eating "dusty" sundaes this afternoon.

Vanilla ice cream with chocolate sauce liberally sprinkled with malt powder. Remember jars of Horlick's malt powder? Remember real chocolate MALTED milkshakes?

We always called those sundaes Dusty Millers, MaryPage. They are delicious!

Mal

Mary Page, where do you find all these goodies? Sounds wonderful.

Well, Lorrie, there is one with your name on it. Try it! You'll like it!

Why not, dear heart! What's another 20 lbs. or so?

By the way, did any of you folks actually see "American Beauty?" I've hear so many comments about that movie, very mixed. I didn't actually see it, but I'm not sure I want to. Maybe it's my disappointment that Richard Farnsworth's movie wasn't chosen.

Lorrie

If I see American Beauty, it will be by video so I can quit if I choose.

I love going to the movies, but did not want to see that one.

I saw American Beauty, Cider House Rules and The Straight Story as well as Wonder Boys.

Cider House Rules was about many things including abortion, incest, fake medical credentials and kindness. It had far too many disturbing messages for this viewer.

American Beauty was strange. hahaahahah

Wonder Boys, I thought, was pretentious.

Not a very good year for movies, but The Straight Story won handily in my opinion, at least for the theme and the acting if not the movie itself, (and this is from a fan of The Sopranos, so I do know DARK!!) hahaahahah

Congratulations, Mal!

ginny

This morning's Akron Beacon-Journal had this interesting information contained in movie reviewer-columnist Chuck Klosterman's column:
"The general rule in filmmaking is that every page in a script equates to one minute of screen time, so a two-hour movie comes from a script that's approximately 120 pages long. Novels tend to be around 250 pages, so it's hard for any film to contain even half as much content as its original source."
Sooooooo, that's my quote-without-comment for today folks!

Interesting thought, Professor. It makes you wonder how much of the story was lost in the fight to compress it, doesn't it?

Who me? Professor indeed! <LOL> But, yes, cutting is part of the art of Books into Movies. I think we all knew that.

I saw "Cider House Rules" but not "American Beauty". I liked the John Irving movie and the book. Did not want to see Beauty as it just sounded weird and about dysfunctional people. But, hey, so was Cider House Rules. So, what does that mean? Yes, Cider House was about abortion, and incest and other sins but the love just shone through. Besides, how can "what's his name"(Kevin Spacey?) compete with Michael Caine? No contest!

I liked two other Irving books into movies,too. "The World According to Garp" and "The New Hampshire Hotel". Maybe, I just like the author!

Ella, I like Irving's books, too! Especially "Garp!"

Here's an interesting note:

Out of 100 Greatest American Movies fo All Time, compared with the Modern Library's picks for the top 100 English-language novels published in this century, 70 of the Library's picks have been made into films, either for theatrical release or television. But get this---only four titles "The Grapes of Wrath," "The Maltese Falcon,""A Clockwork Orange," and "From Here to Eternity" made both the film and novel lists.

Remember "Catcher in the Rye?" J.D. Salinger has never sold the film rights, to the dismay of many who think it would translate well into film. And he zealously guards his work. And his privacy. His lawyers once threatened action against an Internet web devoted to Salinger's protagonist, Holden Caulfield. He also took Random House to court over a biography, and won.

A great book does not aways make a great film. On the contrary.

Lorrie

I like John Iriving but several of the images in the movie were very disturbing to me. Yes, the Caine character and others showed the children love and the women in trouble love, yes they did. Yet studies have shown that children raised in orphanages in that era were actually very well adjusted and even turned out better than those adopted into single families and that's the unfortunate fact.

I was very uncomfortable with the incestous area of the movie, and the implicit "understanding" of those surrounding it, the "respect" accorded the father there, and the....I was not happy with the resultant images.

My grandfather WAS such a physician in such an institution altho he did not perform abortions nor overdose on ether (tho a lot of physicians did), nor did he produce fake medical credentials for a successor.

That movie raised more issues than it solved for me.

IN many ways it was more disturbing than AMERICAN BEAUTY which was more about infidelity and dream life and midlife crisis and dysfunction (jeepers how much more dysfunctional can you get than INCEST?) than anything else.

Likewise I believe Cider House Rules was stereotypical of Blacks, especially migrant workers. Having worked shoulder to shoulder with black field hands for I guess 17 of our 20 years in the vineyard business I find them to be exactly like everybody else, no different and certainly not as portrayed in that film.

The film bothered me, but you know, de gustibus, it's only an opinion.

Ginny

Yes, and what a wonderfully candid opinion it is, Ginny! You're very forthright in what you say, and isn't that what these discussions are all about? Personally, I enjoy reading what our readers have to say about these books. Sometimes their remarks are more insightful than the professional reviewers we read about everywhere.

Lorrie

Not to change the subject, dear Readers, but I do think we have just about chewed over this Academy Award thing long enough, don't you? Next week we'll be discussing a new subject-----Movies that were made from books about the South. Should be a change of pace. More on this later.

Lorrie

Ginny, I appreciate and respect your remarks. Having seen neither movie, I cannot comment for myself.

As I said before, I think The Cider House Rules is a very, very good book. I loved The World According to Garp. Remember "the undertoad"? That's a catchword around this house. The movie was good, but the book impressed me more. I have videos of many of the movies you mentioned, including Shadowlands. I happen to think Anthony Hopkins is a really great actor. What is there about the Welsh that makes for actors like him and Richard Burton?

Does anyone remember The Ghost and Mrs. Muir? That's one of my favorite old movies. I wonder if that was written as a screenplay or a book? I'm going to try to find out.

People I know who have seen American Beauty thought it was great. I'm sure it would remind me of a time that didn't please me too much.

Remember that the young actor in the Sixth Sense is always acting when you see him on TV. Child actors don't live what one would call normal lives. They develop much faster than other children because they must. I raised two sons who are actors. Both have appeared in stage plays, on TV and in films. They were not exactly what one would call typical kids.

Actually, it pleases me that American audiences have progressed enough that a movie like The Cider House Rules would be as popular as it was. Steinbeck also wrote some very dark books about issues that were not easy ones. It's interesting that the 30's brought some fine literature and marvelous serious films as well as really great musical comedies, isn't it?

I wonder what treat MaryPage has in mind today? This beautiful Spring weather makes me think of lemonade and strawberry ice cream sodas bought at old time dime stores, made with real strawberry ice cream and soda water with real whipped cream on top. I forget what they cost in my hometown in Massachusetts, but I don't think it was more than a dime.

Dare I say I added a story to The WREX Pages last night? It's about farming in old time Wisconsin and is by Carson Simak, who is 90 years old. The name is "Plain Dirt", and it's a really good read. There's a lot of talent in SeniorNet. Believe me, there is. Bob Haseltine of WREX has a story, the rights of which are being negotiated for a movie right now, for example.

See you, guys. I think I've got a touch of Spring fever.
Mal

I am planting 2 rose bushes today. Both Pink Osiana, which I highly recommend.

After the sweat, I'll race you to the Drug Store. First one there buys strawberry sodas all around. Slurp! Slurp!

Will you two stop it already with all that food talk! I'm getting so big now I won't be able to get in the door, even sideways! It's all your fault, Mary Page.

Mal: Of course you may dare. We look forward to reading some of these wonderful stories in The Wrex Pages. I couldn't agree with you more about how good some of the Welsh actors are. Aren't they also noted for their ability to sing in choruses? I saw the original Ghost and Mrs.Muir and loved it! There was something about the way Rex Harrison played that irascible Captain that was really sexy, I thought, but then I was a lot younger then, also!! hahaha

I believe I've already commented on "American Beauty", I didn't like it at all and am horrified at the thought that suburbia is even remotely like it is portrayed in this movie..

I didn't see "Cider House Rules" because I knew the character Michael Caine played performed abortions which I did not want to see glorified. I have read some Irving books "World . . ." and "New Hampshire Hotel" and enjoyed them very much.

I recently saw "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" on AMC - a wonderful film. I also saw excerpts from it in a biography of Gene Tierney which was very interesting.

Eileen.

Ive just been catching up with all the comments from March 19 forward. It took a while, believe me, but it was interesting, too. Someone mentioned Tale of Two Cities, and the great actress Edna Mae Oliver-- how about her role of Aunt Betsy in David Copperfield? Now, that was a movie! Then you moved on to Bettie Davis -- my all time favorite was Dark Victory and the quote I can't remember about "the stars". Anybody remember those words? A real tear-jerker! The Oscars were next under discussion -- no comments, since I saw none of the movies. I did watch the show and thought Billy Crystal was mahvelous!! I hope he gets and award for that opening skit. Look forward t more of everyone's comments.

Thank you, Ginger. I'll tell Carson Simak what you said.

Mal

I discussed the comments here about "American Beauty" with my DIL today, and she was surprised, since altho she hasn't seen the movie yet, she understood that it was a satire on suburban life. Also heard that Annette Bening was absolutely brilliant. I am determined to see it, but will probably wait for the video.

I did finally see "Tea With Mussolini" and it was just super! All the actresses were wonderful, and it would be difficult to single out one as the best. Have no idea if it was a book, but whoever wrote the book or screenplay had a very unusual imagination. I highly recommend it!

I also loved the TV version of "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir", but darned if I can think of the names of the leads. Help!

Love...Katie

Hello, all you Rebels and Yankees!
Some of the listings above are fairly new, others real classics of yesteryear.
How many of you have read Stephen Crane’s immortal “The Red Badge of Courage?” The film version of this book was made twice, first in black and white, then in color. Have any of you seen either version, or read the book, or both?

Don't let that list scare you, I'll bet every one of of you has seen those movies, even if you haven't read the books!
Speaking of "The Red Badge of Courage" by Stephen Crane, I'd like to remind you that this was one of the finest Civil War books ever written, Any war, for that matter. Audie Murphy was in the first movie, and that seems apropos when you remember that he was the most single decorated serviceman in the Second World War. The book was written with a psychological insight into the thoughts and feelings of a young farm boy who is siddenly thrust into battle. It's not so much about patriotism as it is about cowardice, and ego, sometimes. Both book and movie were absorbing, the book more so.

Lorrie

The Ghost and Mrs. Muir:

Rex Harrison
Gene Tierney
George Sanders

Ginger, I think the movie you saw yesterday must have been ERIN BROCKOVICH. Julia Roberts. A true story, and the real Erin says it was absolutely right on.

The Family channel is carrying a Brand New 2000 version of THE SPIRAL STAIRCASE tonight.

I saw "Erin Brockovich" last week, I enjoyed it very much, Julia Roberts is getting to be a favorite of mine.

Katie, I saw "Tea with Mussolini" too, about a year ago - it didn't get much publicity was a very enjoyable film - as you said, all wonderful actresses.

The TV "Ghost and Mrs. Muir cast:

Hope Lange = Mrs. Muir

Edward Mulhar = Captain Gregg

Charles Nelson Reilly = Claymore Gregg

Martha = Reta Shaw

Eileen

Tea With Mussolini was what I can only describe as "My sort of Movie".

Beautiful scenery. Beautiful acting. Marvelous human interest stories. Great costumes. Sweet happily ever after, or at least as near as can be. Oh, and bad language ONLY where you knew it would have been impossible for the speaker to have said anything else. For the most part, exquisite manners and lots of art, music, literature and civilized culture.

These are usually called "women's" movies. Like my favorite, Great Britain village setting murder mysteries, they could be called "cosies", these movies. As for sex, you know it is going on, but they Never allow you to suffer the feeling you are a peeping Tom.

MARY PAGE...perfect description! Thank you for saying so well what I didn't get around to expressing.

EILEEN...and thanks to you for remembering/finding the TV cast for "Mrs.Muir"! Edward Mulhare I could recall, but Hope Lange just escaped me...and I love her dearly, in anything she does.

Love...Katie

Oooops! Forgot to mention that "The Red Badge of Courage", the black and white Audie Murphy film, was a staple in the English Dept. of the high school where I subbed. And, being a sub, I was in lots of different English classes and therefore saw the movie many times. It was so good, and really held the kids attention, which is not an easy thing to do. I'm sure they got much more out of the story by seeing it on film.

Love...Katie

Katie, I wonder just how long ago that was when you taught. I know both my brothers loved the book, and the movie with Audie murphy, but in one of the reviews I was reading, several teenagers, when asked about their opinion of the story, said that they were bored to death. Could that be because of the present day saturation of violence everywhere, do you suppose? Of course, they were talking about the book----they hadn't seen the movie.

Lorrie

Do any of you readers think that Margaret Mitchell gave a really true account of the Civil War? When I read the book as a young girl, I was truly impressed, but through the years we wonder how much of that history was seen through prejudicial eyes? Perhaps from stories handed down to Mitchell from her grandparents and their parents? Anyone?

LORRIE...I subbed for nearly 30 years, ending about 1986. It definitely was before all the nasty movies we have now...that I refuse to see. The kids (and I should add that, of course, not all of them were entranced) liked The Red Badge of Courage, I think, because it was not only a book they had read, but also quite a bit different from their usual movie fare. Maybe I'm all wrong. I just remember there was no groaning and horsing around. They paid attention!

Of course "Gone With the Wind" was prejudicial! Margaret Mitchell had to have been influenced by her whole background and surroundings. How could she not have been?

Love...Katie

Prejudicial or not, that one scene in the movie showing all those dead and wounded lying on the ground just when Scarlett was getting to realize that her whole way of life was ending, was one of the most vivid I have ever seen---far more descriptive than the book. The camera work in that scene was masterful.

Lorrie

LORRIE...did you ever read the logistics of filming that scene? Fascinating! After a good night's sleep, perhaps I'll be able to find the whole story...unless some dear, sweet soul comes and does it for me?

Love...Katie

"Of Mice And Men"

I don't know if this was a story that took place in the south. But I read Lorrie's post of B&W films and a remake of the story being done in color--not colorization of the movie, but a new one with different actors.

Last week on AMC this was done with Of Mice And Men with Burgess Merideth and Lon Chayme Jr. And immediately following there was one in color, I can't remember just now who the actors were. But the second movie about which I speak was not near as good. However, fair to say I only watched brief glimpses of the second. But any actor would have rough going to compete with Lon Chaney Jr's "Lenny." And Burgess Merideth's speaking voice over rides any one else.

Yes, Bilsom, I saw both versions, too, and I thought Lon Chaney was better. It goes to show that simply because a movie is colorized, doesn't mean it's going to be any better. If they stick to the story, it will hold its own.

Lorrie

Another story that was very, very popular when it was made into a movie, was "Friendly Persuasion," by Jessamyn West.. In this story, there was conflict right in one Quaker family, and the soul-searching each boy had to do to choose a side, I don't know about the rest of you readers, but I thought the movie was excellent. Superb cast, and a wonderful song by Pat Boone! Anyone remember that one?

Lorrie

Who could forget Gary Cooper.

And "Thee I Love!"

And the way hey sneaked the new organ in to surpise the mother!

My favorite memory is of the goose who was always chasing the little boy.

I attended a Friends' meeting at one time with a cousin, and the service they had was exactly like the one they had in "Friendly Persuasion." Everyone sat in quiet contemplation, until now and then someone would give a quiet recitation. It was one of the most peaceful and moving hours that I can recall. I have often thought about those wonderful peace-loving people, and wonder if they still cling to those same beliefs and style of worship as they did then.

Lorrie

Last Sunday evening I watched the final part of "Rebecca" with Charles Dance and Diana Riggs

At the close the cmmentator told an intresting story. At the close of a stage show production Judith Anderson gave such a great performance she was made A Dame.

Five years later Diana Riggs played in the same stage show and played the same role that Dame Judith Anderson did. When the stage show closed Diana Rigg was also made a Dame for her performance of the roll. I can't think of the name of the stage show.

That is a coincidence, Bilsom. Both of those ladies are fine actresses.

Does anyone remember "Laura?" I'm not sure that movie was a book first, but it was a very good film. And Judith Anderson had a good role in that along with a sleazy Vincent price. Of course Clifton Webb stole the whole show, but who can forget that haunting music?

Lorrie

LORRIE..."Does anyone remember 'Laura'?" What a question! I saw it on TV not too long ago, actually. Because of the music I doubt if anyone has ever forgotten it.

Last night I watched "Cookie's Fortune", which was wonderful! Glenn Close was just outstanding, as was Charles Dutton...and all of the actors. It was a very different plot, but such fun.

Love...Katie

Dumb me. Katie, I've got that movie mixed up with "The Fortune Cookie." Different movie? The one I'm thinking about had Jack Lemmon in it, I think. With Walter Matthau.

Lorrie

Just watched a "ladies" movie over the weekend and really enjoyed it. "The Making of An American Quilt" with many fine actresses. 'Twas so good that I think I will include it on my list "cozies". Loved "Tea With Mussolini", another "cozie".

Spent an afternoon seeing "Witness For the Prosecution" with Charles Laughton and his wife plus Marlene Dietrich and Tyrone Power. Wonderful movie with a surprise ending. And then the request from the theatre managers at the end of the credits which is so funny. Can you imagine them doing that today?

I have seen most of the movies at the top and probably liked "The Color Purple" the most. Thought they did a wonderful job of translating the book into a movie. I liked "Gone With the Wind"(the book and the movie) in the 50's but hated its rerun in the 70's. I changed, it didn't!!

LORRIE..."Cookie's Fortune" just came out last year. I had read such good things about it that I bought it in DVD, sight unseen. Loved it! Not a boxoffice hit, of course. No violence, no sex, no four letter words. YOUR kind of movie!

ANN...have you seen "Enchanted April" or "Widow's Peak"? Both truly wonderful Chick Flicks!

My favorite Book into Movie above is "To Kill a Mockingbird". I loved all the John Jakes books, but not that crazy about the movie.

And how about "Cold Comfort Farm" and one of my very favorites, "Cold Sassy Tree"?

Love...Katie

"Cold Comfort Farm" is one of the most delightful, amusing movies I have ever seen. After seeing it, I got the book by Stella Gibbons and thoroughly enjoyed that as well. Usually I like one, either the book or the movie, better than the other, but in this case I think both are great. However, I have also seen the original BBC production (a 3-video set from PBS) and didn't like that nearly as well.

Kate Beckinsale, the leading lady in "Cold Comfort Farm," also gave a wonderful performance in a production of "Emma" that I taped a few years ago--I think from A&E. I like it better than the Gwyneth Paltrow movie. And she starred as well in a cable movie called "Haunted," which had amazingly solid ghosts. That was another one where the movie led me to read the book, but in that case the movie was much much better than the book, IMO.

Ann, I am in Absolute agreement with you about The Making of An American Quilt.

Enchanted April was another such. Have you seen it?

One that I loved, too, was Dangerous Beauty. Very naughty, but absolutely historically correct and I really, really recommend it if you can handle the courtesans parading down the main canal in Venice half naked and very suggestive in their behavior in the very beginning of the movie. The movie is set in a time when Venice was Famous Big Time for its courtesans.

Whoops, there's Katie mentioning Enchanted April, too.

I agree, Katie. Widow's Peak DOES belong on the list of womens' cosy movies.

I have 3 versions of Emma, and I love them all because each has some things in it the others lack. I am speaking of the videos, of course.

I think Friendly Persuasion was my favorite of the above list. I like feeling happy and romantic at the end of a movie. Color me escapist, I don't mind a bit!

Yes, I saw "Enchanted April" when it first appeared on the scene and thought it 'enchanting', hahahaha! Remember the husband taking a bath while the Italian's were trying to tell him he had turned up the water heater too far. Very funny! I will almost always watch any movie with Joan Plowright as I think she chooses the best parts. But I haven't seen or heard of "Widow's Peak" so will be looking for it. There is another Canadian movie about older women traveling across Canada and their separate stories about the past. Very good but I can't remember the title. They were traveling in a school bus with a nun doing all the driving.

Lorrie, "Laura" - that movie can still grab me. It's been on AMC recently, I think they had a Gene Tierney week. Remember her in "Leave Her To Heaven".wasn't she awful..

Speaking of chick flicks, does anyone remember "To Each His Own" with Olvia DeHaviland, a 3 hankie movie. I just loved the song too.

Eileen

Eileen: If we had gone togeher to those movies we would have out-bawled each other in both of them. haha

Ann: I love Joan Plowright. There was gossip that when she and Laurence Olivier were married that he was making so many little "B" movies because he told someone he didn't want to leave her broke when he died. It's a touching thought, if true. I saw that Canadian movie, they show it every so often on the Independent Film Channel, but for the life of me I ca't remember the title? Isn't that aggravating?

Lorrie

I am old enough, m'dears, to remember when Joan Plowright was a beautiful young blond with a very interesting face and lots of marvelous facial expressions. She played sort of character and comedy pieces, just as she does now, but she was Very young. Then Olivier divorced Vivien Leigh and married Joan and she stopped working and raised 4 children! She did not go back to acting until after he died.

EILEEN...I can't remember if I saw "To Each His Own", but I sure will never forget that dumb song! Excuse my description, but it was the ONLY popular song while my husband and I were courting, and I hated it! Everyone else we knew had beautiful, danceable, singable, memorable songs to remember the rest of their lives, and we didn't! To each his own, I guess...sniffle.

Love...Katie

How about "The Enchanted Cottage" with Robert Young and Dorothy McQuire.

I don't think this was a book.

I can't believe this! Does nobody ever read any books about the South? Or is Gone With the Wind our only criterion? Doesn't anyone remember the horrendous scene of the hillbilly rape in Deliverance, with Burt Lancaster? Or the "duelling banjos" bit? Didn't anyone like Toni Morrison's Beloved? Or the sleazy politicians in All the King's Men? So far only Alice Walker's Color Purple and To Kill a Mockingbird have been mentioned. Oh, well, at least this list is interchangeable. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have an open mind. Empty, but open. haha

Lorrie

LORRIE...I certainly did like both "Deliverance" and "All the King's Men", but they are not among my favorites. Can we call "Giant" a Southern book? I loved the movie so much that I then read the book, which was different in several ways. Still like them both.

Love...Katie

hahahaha! Lorrie, you are so funny and quick! I liked all those movies for different reasons except "Beloved" which I detested! It was so subtle that I had to read about it to understand it! Or maybe it was my mindset at the time. "Deliverance" is the most referred to movie in our family as we have a "Deliverance" contingency that has just married into the family and well, you can guess what comments that brought forth. Had a DIL who played the Dueling Banjos music with her brother at politically incorrect times like just before church started. They would be sitting up there with their guitars not connected to the mics and fingering the notes to the banjo music. They were a laugh a minute!

Hey, Lorrie! The kinds of Southern type books I like haven't been mentioned here. Clyde Edgerton's Walking Across Egypt made me stay up all night reading it, laughing all the while. I heard there was to be a movie made of it, but don't know. Clyde's a native of the country hills near Durham, NC, and is often around this town performing with his Bluegrass band.

He's a Ph.D. professor of English, you know. I don't know if or where he's teaching now, but I know my daughter met him at a function in his honor at Duke University and said he's the kind of regular guy you'd expect him to be. I probably have passed him on the street and didn't recognize him. That's my style!

I also like Michael Malone. Anybody here ever read any of his books?

What about Alan Gurganus? What was his book that was turned into a TV special? Last Confederate Widow or something. Wasn't that it? Gurganus lives in Raleigh, or was the last I heard, also not far from here.

This area of NC is loaded with writers, many of whose books have been made into movies. Lee Smith is another writer here. I am very fond of her books. Anybody ever read her? Of course, Thomas Wolfe was an NC native, lived in Asheville, and went to the University of North Carolina right here in Apple Chill.

Mal

Well!! That's more like it. Mal, I should have known you'd be well-versed 0n the subject of Southern writers, being from North Carolina! How Dixie can you get? Edgerton I've heard of (I must get that book) but I'm afraid Alan Gurganus is a unknown to me, which doesn't mean anything. Thomas Wolfe, of course, how could we forget him?

Ann: I would love to have been in church when they were picking away at their banjos! Always loved that instrument, anyway!

Katie: I still think the music from To Each His Own was very memorable,although I can see your point. Look at it this way--at least that song was more romantic than, say, "The Jersey Bounce!"

Lorrie

Lorrie, I'm a New Englander, born and raised in Massachusetts, who's lived in 7 states above and below and West of the Mason Dixon line. Try to get one of Alan Gurganus's books. I know you'd enjoy it.

Mal

Katie, Katie, Katie - that song was singable and danceable don't you remember the mother and son dancing at the end of the pic???? boo hoo

"A rose must remain, with the sun and the rain, or its lovely promise won't come true" To each his own, to each his own, for me there's you" Sigh . . .

When Dick was acourtin' me the song was from 'Picnic", the movie had just come out - I never liked it! My Mom and Dad had the most romatic songs "Always" and "Remember".

Lorrie, I loved the movie GWTW but did not like the book - I thought it was very racist, which is not surprising considering the author and the times. Wasn't "Tobacco Road" considered a "dirty" book at the time? Although I saw several of the above named movies, I didn't read the books. I enjoyed the memorable performances of Broderick Crawford in ATKM, Oprah and Whoopi in TCP. I've loved Gregory Peck since I was 14 - he ALWAYS gives a great performance.

Eileen

LORRIE..."The Jersey Bounce" wasn't romantic, but it sure was a lot more fun to dance to!

Allen Gurganis's "The Last Confederate Widow Tells All" is a really super book! I loved it! Can't believe that I seem to be the only one here who has read it...so far. It was very popular just a few years ago.

EILEEN...you didn't like "Moonglow" from "Picnic"? When Bill Holden and Kim Novak danced to that it turned into the sexiest scene I ever saw! I will hereby trade you "Our Song"s. OK? By the way, any news about Tom? Are you still sending cards?

Love...Katie

If I may insert some humor here,a cartoon from way back shows two clerymen walking past a theater that is showing"David and Bathsheba". One says to the other, "No, but I've read the book". It is from the Saturday Review of Literature.

Katie, I read The Oldest Confederate Widow when it first came out. It's great, isn't it?

Shirley! That was great!

Mal

Shirley, that was hilarious!! Every time I pick up a New Yorker mag, like the Sat. Review, I find myself skimming through just to see their cartoons. Does anyone remember when the "club ladies" were so popular?

Katie, we used to jitterbug better to "String of Pearls!"

Eileen, I think we should put you in charge of "lyrics for the oldies-but-goodies." "Moonglow" could make any dancers sexy.

Good, we all agree! "Oldest Confederate Widow" was great! Popcorn's on the house!

That was Helen Hokinson, I believe, who did those "club ladies" cartoons, Lorrie, wasn't it? She was a fine artist and funny, too.

Mal

Okay, okay already!

My favorite romantic tunes were Serenade in Blue and Dancing in the Dark. Does anyone remember dancing to Those? Uuuummmmmmmm.

Now, when thinking of my deceased darling, I hum Together and music from his favorite South Pacific.

Remember I'll Get By? I'll Be Seeing You? (a big time favorite of mine, that was!) It's Been A Long, Long Time? Snowfall? (another favorite of my husband's) Moonlight Serenade? My Buddy? Now Is The Hour? There Are Such Things? Daybreak?

I never could dance to any of those tunes because of my "gick leg", MaryPage, but I've played and sung all of them. I bet there are almost as many songs in my head I've played for myself, on my radio shows, and on the stage, and could sit down at the piano and play right now as you can name. That was how I earned my living for a while, you know, and those melodies and harmonies just won't go away! Come on over, y'all and we'll have a little sing along. Wouldn't that be fun? That's what my kids and I do. Believe me, they know every one of those songs, too, because they've been exposed to them so often.

Mal

I think everyone has their own special music. I am speaking of "popular" music of their teenage and very young adult years here. My music was that heard from about 1938 to 1950. I cannot imagine being romantic to the "popular" music of today! I doubt any of us here can.

Since I'll be 72 in a couple of months plus a few weeks, I figure your popular music was the same as mine, MaryPage. I will say that I know some really great jazz that's being written and played today. Today's music is not all punk, funk and rock, you know. I even like quite a bit of that and can see why it's so popular. Romantic songs? I've heard a good many of those in today's music, too!

Mal

Since I have our Oldie's radio station on all day, I am beginning to think I am living in the 30's, 40's, and 50's. This music plus a live good announcer and my day is made! If I didn't dance to it, my parents did. We always had my grandmother around to play anything we could hum. 'Twas great! I will be down to your place, Malryn, for that sing a-long, any day you name. We did a lot of that when I was growing up and even after I had my children. Grandma left us when I was 35 or so and she could always play for us until she was up into her late 80's.

We watched a super olde movie last night on TCM, "Judgement At Nuremburg" with some outstanding scenes and actors. I guess Maximillian Schell won an Academy Award for his part as the defense attorney. What a great movie! A classic! Anyone else watch it?

Ann, I saw it, too, and it was superb! I had seen "Judgement" once before, but hadn't really absorbed much of it. Last night it was a pleasure to sit through an excellent movie on IFC without being subjected to loud commercials. The cast was outstanding, even Judy Garland id a fine job, did you notice all the familiar faces? I've always been of the opinion that Spencer Tracy was a much under-rated actor, an opinion that was shared by Lord Laurence Olivier, no less. Olivier said once that "of all the fine actors in Hollywood that he'd met, Spencer Tracy was by far the most gifted." And Maximillian Schnell was brilliant.

MARY PAGE...my husband's favorite was "Opus #1"!!! Great to dance to, but sure wasn't lyrical.

I only know about one radio station here, and it's the one from Interlochen and plays nothing but classical music. Have it on right now, as it's the best background music. My grandkids program the other buttons for my car radio, tho, and imagine my surprise when I discovered the 10 yr.old's favorite station is the one that plays the Golden Oldies...from the 40s and a few years later! I think he's been influenced at home. Hehehe!

Love...Katie

How did I get so far adrift? Sorry! I always thought Spencer Tracy was great because you never knew he was acting! Wasn't he the one who said the secret to being a good actor was to "know your lines and find your spot"?

Love...Katie

You know, this is an amazing coincidence! Everybody seems to be on a music nostalgia trip, so why don't you click on the blue banner down on the left-hand corner of this page? It will only be up for 24 hours, so join in! They're talking about some really neat music of the past.

Lorrie

Katie, OK, I'll trade ya songs (: Yes, I still send Tom monthly cards but haven't gotten any replies since last (1998) Christmas. I skipped March but will be sending one for Easter.

Lorrie, I'm only good for one liners in song (:

Let me add one of my BIG favorite songs "The Very Thought of You".

Another goodie was in "The Great Gatsby" with a gorgeous Robert Redford (was she nuts???) the haunting melody "What'll I Do" sigh, so sad. . .

I saw "My Dog Skip" today which was set in the WWII years. It was based on a book by Willie Morris. Nice, sentimental little movie, teary in the end of course.

Eileen

Oh, EILEEN! Now there is a book into a movie that I never tire of! I'm so glad you brought it up! I was reading an article, not an hour ago, which I haven't finished yet, about "The Great Gatsby" and the fascination it still holds for us. Will let you all in on it after I finish the article.

Love...Katie

"Gatsby" was beautifully done in the prodution by Francis Ford Coppola, was visually beautiful, the music was haunting, but I'm not sure this adaptation captured the sensuality of Daisy, or the general melancholy that was gleaned from the book.

Lorrie

I did like "The Great Gatsby" with Redford better than the one with Alan Ladd. The sets and the photography were just outstanding. And the costumes, especially the big party with all those marvelous dresses. I just watch it every once in awhile, just to see the scenery.

ANN...ALAN LADD!!! You mean to tell me there was a movie about Gatsby with ALAN LADD??? You gotta be kidding me! He wasn't much taller than I am, and you know how tall that is! So happy that I missed that one! Whew!

Love...Katie

Yes, Katie, Alan Ladd played Jay Gatsby, and of course he had to stand on a box to do the love scenes! I kid you not!!

Lorrie

ANN and LORRIE...I just looked it up in my movie books, and there was a third "Great Gatsby" in 1926! Maltin says **½ for each of these later ones and that Alan Ladd was "pretty good" in the 1949 one, but that it is misguided and too talky and literal-minded, whatever that means. About the 1974 movie he says it is bland, opulent, and faithful to the book, but lacks substance and power. The Golden Video Retriever, with 2½ Bones, says the acting was fine, but also said it lacked the power of the book. Any movie with both Robert Redford and Sam Waterston in it is tops in my book!

Love...Katie

Okay, all you movie and book fans! Brush off those popcorn kernels, lick your fingers of Mary Beth’s chocolates, clean up your mess, and then settle back while we discuss famous men detectives.
(Ginger, where’s that vacuum?)

You’ll notice we’re emphasizing the male gender this particular list. (We’ll talk about women detectives at a later date)I would like to have included that bumbling character in the wrinkled raincoat and with a soggy cigar, but from what I can find Columbo was never a book first. Or Auguste Dupin, the detective in Edgar Allen Poe’s “Murders in the Rue Morgue."

So let’s hear from you all!

Lorrie

Lorrie, I found the vacuum cleaner and am woking on getting things cleaned up for tonight.

Ginger

Good for you, Ginger! I might have known you'd be on the job! Hey, everyone, I think we should nominate Ginger for the Housekeepers World Wide Honorary Award! What say you?

Speaking of detectives---(who was?) One of my favorites was Charlie Chan. My father even liked him; he always laughed at Charlie's long-suffering patience with his eager sons, #1 Son, and #2 Son.

Charlie Chan, as depicted then, would be considered politically incorrect, definitely, and even ethnically offensive, by today's standards, But, as children, we could see no harm in this rotund, wily Oriental man who solved difficult cases where not a drop of blood was shown.

Lorrie

LORRIE..."children", my foot! I watched him less than a week ago on AMC or TCM. I may check the listings for tomorrow (Sunday) morning...seems to me that's when one of those channels runs Charlie Chan movies. He's still delightful even if he doesn't quite fit anymore.

Love...Katie

Katie: Sure, it looks like some of the cable channels have regular "Charlie Chan Festivals" for a week at a time, sometimes, so he must still be popular. Look at the myriad of actors who have played that role besides Warner Oland. Boris Karloff, Sydney Toler, Roland Winters, Peter Ustinov, and yes, even J. Sarroll Naish. I always liked the pearls of wisdom he dropped every so often. Like: "Confucius say that man who eat beans and go to church sit in own pew." hahaha

Lorrie

I am having my daily "senior moment", except that right now it's become much longer than that, so please help me. Who was the French detective featured several times on the Public TV channel, (Simonov....something like that). He had a wife, was large and used a lot of psychology, always wore a Fedora hat. Anyway, I think the TV filmd were based on a series of books. Am I on the right track here?

Gail,

The French detective is Inspectir Maigret. The books were written by Georges Simenon, who died several years ago. Maigret is one of my favorite fictional detectives. There quite a number of books about Maigret as Simenon was quite prolific. All of Simenon's writings are heavily psychological. I enjoy his books very much.

Lorrie,

Yesterday I attended a writers' conference here in town. It is a yearly event and is very good. This year the main featured writer was Ernest J. Gaines. He spoke at the luncheon. Then the last event of the day was the film of his book A lesson before Dying. after the movie there was question/answer session with Ernest J Gaines. When asked about the differences in the movie and the book, he stated that he had nothing to do with the screen play and that those differences were just the way that the person who wrote the screen play saw things. He also said he did not worry about that sort of thing. He just took his money from Hollywood. The whole discussion was very interesting.

A Lesson Before Dying has also been adapted as a stage play. It was recently performed by the Alabama Shakespeare Company. I did not see it.

Joan

I did see Alan Ladd in that movie and even though Mr. Shrimp was a big favorite of mine, I know I didn't care for the movie.

On the other hand, the Gatsby with RR was beautiful and sad. I believe the dance scene was done in the Marble House in Newport and other scenes were shot at The Breakers...I love to visit these fabulous old houses.

I think Hercule Poirot is my favorite, and David Suchet was splendid as Hercule on PBS. But the movie I enjoyed the most was "Island in the Sun" with Peter Ustinov as Hercule - they played a lot of Noel Coward music throughout the movie - wonderful. Also "Murder on the Orient Express" was outstanding. Oh, and "Ten Little Indians" also known as "And Then There Were None" - guess I'll stop there.

Eileen

Joan G. That must have been a really interesting session with Ernest Gaines. Apparently they showed the film, " Lesson Before Dying" and I wondered what your own personal opinion of the movie was. I didn't read the book, but I'm certainly going to. Wonderful reviews!

Eileen, isn't it wonderful how so many fiction detectives can be portrayed by so many different actors? Look at how many have played Sherlock Holmes, for instance.

Lorrie

Roderick Alleyn ( Ngaio Marsh)

Antony Maitland ( Sara Woods )

Adam Dalgliesh ( P.D. James )

Gervase Fen ( Edmund Crispin )

Andrew Dalziel ( Reginald Hill )

Peter Pascoe (Reginald Hill )

The above are the male detectives I adore. I am still, sigh, in love with Alleyn. Too bad he loved another! In my opinion, all of these writers are great, but Ngaio Marsh was the greatest, with Crispin right behind her.

I really enjoyed those old C. Chan movies. Quite a few of them took place in large old gothic type mansions with suits of armore standing in the cornors,eyes looking out of portraits hanging on the walls and spying on the room occupants.

Number one son would hide in these suits of armore and would invariably tilt them over and fall to the floor in front of Chan. A favorite quote by Charley: "When number one son open mouth he put foot in it.

But I don't know. I don't think they were that politically incorect. I can't remember any ethnic slurs or racial remarks in those pictures. If they were too bad I don't think TV would run them today.

Mary Page, did you see your very number one favorite detective, Ngaio Marsh, on TV a couple of weeks ago. It was a two parter and had a sort of sad finish.

By the way all you Sherlock Holme's fans,that little picture of Sherlock placed in the headings, wearing his deer stockers cap and smoking his pipe, would be great to put in your e-mail.

Saw this movie years ago, Eileen, and loved it. Is it still around? Ngaio Marsh is a favorite, but I don't remember any movies from her books. I like theTV movies about Inspector Morse, although sometimes everything is so dark that I have difficulty following the action!

Well, I think you all know my favorite detective, Inspector Morse! And following him closely...and I have most of his books, which are even better than the TV shows...Lovejoy! Reading the books, by Jonathon Gash, is a great way to learn about antiques!

Love...Katie

Bilsom, I have seen movies made of Marsh books, but none at all recently. What was the name of it? Who was in it? What channel carried it? Perhaps it was local only.

I like Morse, but I do not adore Morse. He drinks too much, is too melancholy, and has an unreasonable temper. I love the music that he loves, and suffer fools to about the same degree he does.

Last month I read Irving's Cider House Rules. Last week, I saw the movie. Yuk!! I was so disappointed and as dearly as I love Michael Caine, I can't believe he won an academy award for this portrayal. I was distraught to say the least. Has anyone else seen the movie? I apologize if this has been discussed before, just point me in the right direction, please dear posters.

Alf: No, it's okay--it was on our first list, and we did have quite a few comments about Cider House Rules, and I will tell you this. Most of the viewers were in agreement with you for various reasons. Here's another case of where the movie fails to live up to the book, in most readers opinions.

Attention, all you faithful readers: Our own Bilsom, whose name you see so often here in our posts, has very kindly agreed to act as co-leader in this discussion Needless to say, I'm delighted to have him aboard. Please welcome him, and save some of that popcorn for him, you guys!

Lorrie

Mary Page, Mary Page! Are there no American private eyes you admire? Those look to be mostly British names. Granted,they're very good, but I still sort of like to read some of the hard-boiled guys. Mickey Spillane, for instance. His Mike Hammer was a real "gumshoe!" And Sam Spade! Remember Humphrey Bogart as Sam Spade in "The Maltese Falcon?" What a movie that was! With slimy Peter Lorre and slippery Sydney Greenstreet?

Lorrie

No, Lorrie. Quite honestly, I am a softy. I do not like hard language, fisticuffs, drinking, drug taking, smoking, macho behavior, violence, guns, etc.

In the books I like, there is sometimes a little of that. But not too much or too often.

I like pretty. "God don't like ugly."

I could go on and on. I don't like depressing, seedy, sluttish, beer guzzling, etc.

I just like Nice.

Oh, and I don't like a lot of sex in my books. Just a hint, nothing precise.

Don't like anything set in bars or having to do with gambling. Prissy, prissy me!

MARY PAGE...you are not alone! Much as I loved Bogie, Sam Spade was not my kind of guy. That's why I like the Brits...no guns!

LORRIE...Whew! BILSOM being on the job means you get to play a little, I hope. Nice to be able to share, too.

Love...Katie

Mary Page, I am sorry, but I can't remember the name of the Marsh TV movie. It was on a Sunday evening 8:PM, about 2-or 3-weeks ago. I believe ABC aired it.

Maybe I can find out from one of the local TV critics.

Sorry ladies, I like Ellery and Mike Hammer. Ellery isn't so bad in your terms, but Mike, like him alot. The book versions however. Another favorite of mine is Nero Wolf.

I find I'd rather read the books than watch the movies, I have a vivid imagination and like the looks of my characters better than the director's versions.My vision of Hercule is no where near the one on tv. A book holds my interest, while my mind tends to wander watching on screen, I get easily bored. The web of words appeals to me.

Ruth Warren: Thank you, thank you! I was afraid I was surrounded here by a group of Anglophiles, and had to say something on behalf of some of our own American "private eyes." And yes, have you noticed how often a director will put somebody in a part that isn't even remotely like the one in the book?

Mary Page: Among your "I don't likes" don't forget to include the smell of popcorn!

There you are, Bill! Good to have you here!

Lorrie

Lorrie,

Yes they showed A Lesson Before Dying . The movie was excellent but according to those who had read the book it was very different. I haven't read the book either but I am certainly going to read it. Ernest Gaines was just wonderful. He was so interesting.

Joan

Joan G.: Those sessions live with the actual authors of a book are really interesting, aren't they? I don't know if anyone has ever read any books by the Israeli author Amos Oz, but I met him once when he came to an interview session at our nearby Community Center, and it was fascinating to hear him! Apparently he's very well known in his own country, but less so here. Wonderful writer, though!

Lorrie

Instead of just liking the British detectives, I just like mysteries of any ilk if they aren't too violent. Love Adam Dagliesh, Inspector Morse, Sherlock Holmes, Nero Wolfe, Perry Mason, Ellery Queen, etc,etc. Its the not knowing how its going to end that I like, even though, many times I figure it out long before the answer is given.

Welcome, Bilsom! Glad to have you aboard!

I am bringing popcorn, peanuts and Dr Pepper to this party. Maybe something fudgy,too?

mem, I saw "And Then There Were None" on AMC. I think Barry Fitzgerald was in it-wasn't he the last one left?

What about Lord Peter Wimsey - another Brit not mentioned, Dorothy Sayers. the PBS series was comical but good.

MaryPage, I don't like gory books either but I know in the past I have enjoyed Ross McDonald and John McDonald's books. I also remember reading the 87th Precinct books way back when and liked them at the time.

Lorrie, should we mention the "Cat Who" books which are now a BIG favorite of mine and ones that MaryPage should enjoy.

Eileen

Now THERE'S a fantastic thought... what if they made a movie based on the Cat Who books?!?!!! Boggles the mind... Who would make a good Qwilleran?

John D. MacDonald's books, the Travis McGee series as well as many others, bordered on the sadistic at times but never failed to hold my interest. Does anyone know, were any of them ever made into movies?

Eileen, I'll try to remember to look for And Then There Were None on AMC. I'd really like to see that one again -- I can't remember who was in it, it wa many, many years ago. I watched Five Came Back (with Lucille Ball, Chester Morris, and C. Aubrey Smith) a short time ago on AMC. I don't know if that was also a book, but it was a good movie -- I remembered liking it years ago ('40's I think).

Travis McGee was a great character! My sons enjoyed John MacDonald too. I remember a movie on TV with I think, Sam Shepard as Travis didn't fit my image of Travis. I always wished Clint Eastwood would play Travis. He would be much closer to how I imagined him!

Ann; You're a real sweetie! Everyone, Ann has just replenished our dwindling supply of "goodies."

Jeryn and mem: Wasn't Travis McGee the guy who lived on a houseboat, and didn't all those novels have a different color in the title? It's been a while since I read them.

Jeryn: Interesting thought about The Cat Who!

Eileen: Yes, I like Peter Whimsey, too. By the way, is the cat in The Cat Who a detective? A sort of feline flat-foot? hahaha

Lorrie

I like the fudgy things, Ann.

Halaluya, Halaluya, Halaluya.

I have been babtised for the second time in my life. Marcie canged my name from Bilsom and babtised me Bill H. I know my sainted mother, who I know is heaven, will always hold Marcie in high regard for restoring my name to me

Bill

Mary Page, I have e-mailed one of the local TV review reporters and ask him to e-mail me the name of that Marsh TV movie we talked about Hopefuly, I'll get a reply from him.

Of all the Sayers stories about Lord Peter Wimsey, and, of course, Bunter his man Friday, I liked The Nine Tailors (or is it Taylors> best)of all. As I remember, the story took place in the English North country and was centered around 9-church bells. I remember reading how fatal it would be if one got caught in the bell tower when they would peel. They all had names but the only one I can think of Is Taylor Paul. What were the other names of the bells and were they named after the apostles?

Some of you people will probably think me insane, but of all those English detectives, there's one that really grabbed my attention. That was Roy Marsden, who plays the part of Commander Adam Dalgleish. For some reason, I find this man terribly attractive---there's something about him.....................

Lorrie

Bill, didn't the man who had hid in the tower go deaf and mad? I think they were named for the apostles. But it has been a long time since I watched the movies on tv (high time for them to bring them back for another generation to watch, I think) and even longer since I read the books. Wasn't it all about money having been hidden in one of the bells?

LORRIE...ah, another nice man, that Dalgleish! I really like all those Brits...except Robbie Coltrane. Didn't care for him, at all! And it still tickles me that Eliza Doolittle's Freddy grew up to become my very favorite Sherlock Holmes.

Love...Katie

Mary Page, It's been so long since I read this story (a teen ager or early 20s)but I think some one did go mad or died in the bell tower while the bells were peeling. There was somthing important in the bell tower that the story centered on. It probably was money.

Katie, don't let me hang. I'm a Sherlock Holmes fan. Who was Eliza Doolittle's Freddy that grew up to be your favorite Sherlock Holmes? Not Jeremy Bret!

Lorrie,If you like Roy Marsden and I know you like Jeremy Brett, then you'll love watching them act togeather in "The Last Vampire." A Sherlock Holmes TV movie.

I first became interested in the Sherlock Holmes stories by listening to these stories on the radio. In the mid or late or 1930s, the stories would be broadcast late Sunday afternoons. Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce played the part of Holmes and Watson. These two made a great pair. Oh, how the family would group around and listen, using our vivid imagination as the story would unfold and each of us trying to “detect” the conclusion. These stories and others like them brought the family so close together.

Later in life I purchased my first complete Sherlock Holmes book. The pages now are so brown with age. Then many years ago, I purchased an illustrated complete Sherlock Holmes book. Oh what a difference these illustrations made. They put you right in the story.

I saw Don Quixote on TNT Sunday night and was so disappointed!!! I had really looked forward to it but didn't even stay till it was finished. They took a wonderful book and turned it into a B grade comedy with terrible acting by the main characters. It was adapted by John Mortimer who has done some good work for Masterpiece Theater so I was surprised at how bad I thought this one was. Perhaps Mr. Mortimer had no control over how the movie was directed. I hope that was the case---otherwise, what could he have been thinking!

Phyll

Bill: "The Last Vampire?" Has that been on already? Don't tell me I missed it! Oh, no. I'll bet it was one of the A&E presentations with Jeremy Britt as Sherlock. H passed away not too long ago, by the way. Jeremy, I mean.

Katie: I'm curious, too!

Lorrie

Phyll: I saw it, too, and was disgusted. Yes, one would expect more from Mortimer. Remember his "Rumpole of the Bailey?" Wasn't that a gem?

Here's an interesting fact, Bill: All of these following people have played Sherlock at one time or another:
Basil Rathbone
Jeremy Britt
Clive Brook
Anthony Higgins
Hans Albers (The German Version)
John Barrymore
Frank Langella
There was even one comedy version of Sherlock Holmes played by Gene Wilder!

Lorrie

Basil Rathbone was MY favorite Sherlock.

Lorrie and Phyll, I thought the Quixote very well done! Different, due to the wonderful new computerized images. I thought that made it all the more delightful.

OK, all you guys! Jeremy Brett most definitely played Freddy Lynsford Hill in "My Fair Lady"! I saw an interview with him not long before he died in which he said his singing was dubbed in the movie, and how interesting it was to do that. Evidently he didn't push to do his own singing, as Audrey Hepburn did. She failed, as we all know. That's OK...she made it on her looks! He must have been 30 years older when he did Sherlock Holmes.

Love...Katie

Mary Page: Tha's what this discusssion is all about! We want your opinions even though others may not agree wih them. As for Don Quixote, I like John Lithgow as an actor very much, and was a little disappointed in his performance. That's not to say the rest of the film was not ok.

Okay, Katie, you've eased our curiosity. Heck, i can't even remember what "Frddy" looked like, it's been so long since I saw the movie, but then i couldn't remember what my husband looked like from one day to the next.

Lorrie

LORRIE...come over! I now have it on DVD...and it is super! They re-mastered the whole thing and it looks brand new. Beautiful! I keep pictures around of my husband...it helps!

John Leonard, in New York Magazine, said "Don Quixote" was OK, but wondered why they bothered to do it. The musical was better, he said.

Love...Katie

Lorrie Yes. I'm sorry to say "The Last Vampire" aired all ready. Jeremy Brett did play Holmes and Roy Marsden played "the vampire." Blockbuster video caries some of those TV Holmes movies. That was a great list you put up of all the Holms actors I would've like to seen Barrymore.

Katie, I'm going to have to rent the movie of My fair lady just to see Brett playing Freddy. I didn't realize 30-years passed from when I first saw "My Fair Lady" untill watching Brett as Sherlock.

Mary Page, I can't seem to find out the name of that Ngaio Marsh movie that aired on TV about a mont ago on Sunday evening. Can any one help?

Katie,

I almost never agree with John Leonard--maybe that is because half the time I can't figure out what he is saying--but in this case I agree with him. The musical WAS better. I was lucky enough to see it on Broadway with Richard Kiley. It was wonderful!

Jeremy Brett also played Max in Du Maurier's "Rebecca" on PBS some years ago.

Phyll

PHYLL...re: John Leonard...he is the reason I get up on Sunday morning. Love his stuff, except that I plowed thru a book he wrote, which took me forever and was good, I guess, but am quite sure it won't happen again. I don't think he is a true believer in the "brevity is the soul of wit" maxim. I find his tastes and mine are pretty close, altho he is not a fantasy lover as I am.

I envy you, seeing Richard Kiley in DQ on stage! I think he is/was a vastly underrated actor...so good in everything he did.

Love...Katie

katie, i agree that Richad Kiley was a fine actor, never given his proper due. I saw him one time in a movie with Joann Woodward, and he was superb! It was the story of a man whose wife develops Alzheimer's Disease, and the way he coped with it. Without being so stupidly maudlin like some of the current movies, this one really tugged at your heart!

Lorrie

Phyll: I think i could have put up with Jeremy Brett doing Max DeWinter.

Bill: could that movie have been one of these?

Surfeit of Lampeys
A Man Lay Dead
Artists in Crime
Death in a White Tie
Death in Ecstasy
Final Curtain

Keep in mind that Ngaio Marsh was a woman..Although the inspector Allenby was definitely a male, and we are talking about men detectives here.

I didn't know that Ngaio Marsh was a woman! I always thought it was a man with a silly-looking name!

Lorrie

I believe the name is Maori.

I think Marsh was a New Zealander.

Like Kiri Te Kanawa.

I think they were both made Dames of the British Empire.

Kiri is actually half Maori. I believe Marsh was not.

LORRIE...I saw that movie and have never forgotten it. Can't believe it has not been repeated over and over. Now that people are beginning to talk about Alzheimer's, out loud, you'd think there would be interest in this excellent movie. Maybe it's one (?) showing had something to do with present day understanding? I'd like to think so.

Very interesting about Ngaio Marsh!

Love...Katie

mem, "And Then . . ." was made in 1945 - Barry Fitzgerald, Walter Huston, Louis Hayward, Judith Anderson, C. Aubrey Smith and more were in it. I looked up "Five Came Back" and it looks like it was just a screenplay, one of the writers was Dalton Trumbo and Chester Morris(Boston Blackie) was in it too.

Lorrie, hmmm, is Koko a gunshoe??? You'd better read one of the books and make up your own mind. (:

MaryPage, Basil Rathbone IS Sherlock, all the others are imposters.

Katie, My Fair Lady was just on AMC, darn it, I wish I knew Jeremy played Freddy - a fascinating fact.

No one has mentioned Helen Mirren's excellent portrayal of a British police detective - can't think of her name in the story, darn it.

Eileen

Eileen,

Jane Tennison is the police detective played by Helen Mirrren. Also, Mirren has done many fine classical plays. She's an excellent actress.

Phyll

Eileen and Phyll:

Helen Mirren is on our list for our next set of female detectives. In the meantime, we're concentrating on mostly male gumshoes. I notice we haven't said much about Columbo. I always liked that character!

Lorrie

The modern version of The Spiral Staircase"(2000) is on the FAM chanel tonight. The actors are not familiar to me. I suppose I'll watch.

Phyll, I saw REBECCA with Jeremey Brett and Joanna David. I think he gave a better performance than Olivia.

Lorrie, I didn't know Ngaio Marsh was a woman.

A Light bulb just now went on in my head. Folks, I'm so sorry, The movie I saw a few weeks ago weeks ago was not a Ngaio Marsh movie. It was a Nero Wolf movie. No wonder the local TV critic and reviewer couldn't answer my question. Oh, lord, I led him on a wild goose chase!! Ha, Ha! I'm not going to tell him. If I tell him, he might not answer my TV questions again.

Lorrie, that's why none of the movies you mentioned peel a bell

I notice that no one has commented on books written by John Sandford, the author of the "Prey" series. (All his book titles have the word "prey" in them.) This man is a wonderful writer, and his main character, Lucas Davenport, a police lieutenant in Minneapolis, is quite unforgettable. Besides being a top-notch crime fighter, Lucas is independently wealthy from selling and producing a lint of internet software. His stories are taut, with a great deal of suspense.

I'll admit I am prjudiced because I live right in the middle of all the book's locale, the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. I know exactly where he's coming from when he describes a certain place, and it's a real thrill to go along vicariously with him on a murder chase.

Lorrie

Eileen, I am so happy you have the sound wisdom to recognize the real Sherlock Holmes.

Bill H, yes, Ngaio Marsh was a woman (deceased) and one of the very, very best authors ever. She had the MOST divine of all the detectives, too. But he loved Troy, the artist. Sigh. He was of noble birth. And handsome. And rich.

Her best was A Clutch of Constables. You can get her used paperbacks at all the used book stores, but she is still in print in the regular book stores as well. And the on line stores have all of her stuff.

Sherlock Holmes continues through the ages. Thanks to the masterful writing of Sir Authur Conan Doyle. There are many Sherlock Holmes’ fan clubs in the USA and other countries of the world. Unfortunately I never joined any. I did attend one lecture of a local Holmes’ fan club the chief of police of one on the suburbs of the ‘burgh carried on the dialogue. Now these people really got with it. They would pick these stories apart in great detail--what kind of pipe did Holmes use; what was the name of the haberdasher that made his hats and caps, what was said on what page in what story and what stories did Mycroft Holmes--Sherlock’s older brother--appear in. I think readers you get the idea. This club was planing a trip to England to visit the many haunts of Sherlock Holmes. But I didn’t have the time to go with them back then. I wonder if there really is a 221 B Baker Street?

Bill H,

I used to live in the Hudson River Valley area of N.Y. and worked at Adriance Library in Poughkeepsie. The then District Attorney of Dutchess County was an avid Sherlockian. He had many momentos pertaining to the great detective and was a member of a group called the Baker Street Irregulars. He allowed the library to display a few of the things he had collected. I always thought it very interesting that someone who's livelihood was in law enforcement was so involved in Sherlock Holmes in his leisure time.

Phyll

Yes, there is. And it is now a museum to the glory of this fictional detective.

The "Baker Street Irregulars" (I think that is their name) maintain it. Or they used to do.

Here's an interesting note about Sherlock Holmes: There's a book out, called "The Napoleon of Crime," written by Ben MacIntyre, which tells the true story of Adam Worth, a notorious Victorian age criminal master-mind, and on whom A. Conan Doyle reputedly based his version of Professor Moriarity. Such a person actually existed, and the book is on our "possible" list for True Crime discussions. Apparently this Worth had an ongoing feud with William Pinkerton, founder of the famous detective agency.

Lorrie

Phyll, it was interisting to read that another law enforcement officer to Sherlock so serious. The same could be said about the chief of police whose lecture I attended. All of these dedicated Sherlocians take this very, very seriously. I think it's far more than just a game to them. The Hudson River Valley. Wasn't that the haunts of Ichob Krane?

Mary Page, where is this museum? Is it in Poughkeepsie? I'd like to see that.

Lorrie, I think I'd like to read that book! Could you tell us if it deals with Sherlock or mostly other crimes

Phyll, thanks, I just couldn't think of her character's name and I agree she's one terrific actress.

MaryPage, when we're right, we're right! Wasn't the book "The 7% Solution" by Nicholas Meyer supposed to be a Holmes story written by Dr. Watson? I seem to recall I liked it.

Lorrie, whoopsi, I didn't know we were dealing with the sexes separately. (:

Eileen

Eileen, I recall the title, but not the substance.

BillH, I know nothing about Poughkeepsie. The BAKER STREET address in London was the museum I was speaking of. If you go to London, look up Baker Street and then just go there.

Eileen: No problem. We'll get to the lady sleuths later. And the 7% Solution was about Sherlock Holmes--his addiction to cocaine and how Dr. Watson tried to cure him, I believe. A very good book by Nicholas Meyer.

Lorrie

Bill H.

Yes, the Hudson Valley was the setting for Ichabod Crane (The Legend of Sleepy Hollow) but it was a little farther south of where I used to live. The author, Washington Irving lived near Tarrytown, N.Y.

Lorrie, Nicholas Meyer also wrote another book about Holmes called, "The Canary Trainer."

I read MOST of a book by Laurie R. King named "A Letter for Mary" in which Holmes in his later life has married and has sort of retired fron the detective business. The book is written from the viewpoint of his young wife. I didn't like it very much. King also wrote three or four more books about Holmes and his wife. I don't know, I just couldn't get past the style of writing---too modern and obviously not Conan Doyle.

I was just checking the public library catalog and came across a non-fiction book named "Dining Out With Sherlock"....a Baker Street Cookbook. I am going to pick it up the next time I get over to the library. Sounds like fun.

Phyll

Sherlock Holmes married?? Somehow i just can't picture that. What about poor Dr. Watson? No, i don't think that's how Conan Doyle would have written about Sherlock, either.

A Baker Street cookbook for readers! What fun! In that book, I'll bet they don't eat crow! oh oh

Lorrie

Here's a book that I think all of you Holmes fans will like.

Its titled NEVERMORE, by William Hjortsberg...It's a novel that takes place in NY City in the 1920's... It opens with a double murder in Hell's Kitchen & as more murders happen,the unknown killer recreates grisly scenes from the pages of Edgar Allan Poe's fiction.

In the meantime, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is touring America to promote Spiritualism, and he becomes plagued by visits from Poe's ghost.

Doyle then is befriended by Harry Houdini, who along with Doyle,get involved with a high society clairvoyant,who believes she is the reincarnation of Isis,the ancient Egyptian fertility goddess.

I found the book to be highly imaginative and absorbing.

Ed: Of course! "Nevermore" from Poe's Raven. Wherever do you find these books? It sounds like a real winner. I've already made a note of it. Thank you for the tip.

Lorrie

I read the "Seven-Percent Solution". I liked it.

I made a note of the "The Canary Trainer" and "Nevermore" Thanks. Thanks Phyll and Ed.

If I ever do get back to London, Mary, I'll certainly visit that Holmes museum. I wish I'd thought about it the last time I was there.

Yes, the book "Nevermore" was, I think, made into a movie,too, but the title wasn't the same. Good mystery!

We,too, didn't make it to the Holmes Museum. There is never enough time to do it all when you visit England!

Lorrie, Koko is a siamese cat in the CW books by Lillian Braun. He is supposed to be a helpmate detective cat for his owner, Qwilleran. Fun reading!

I am still a fan of Hercule Poirot and his "leetle gray cells" and really like David Suchet who protrays him. Watched one last night (after the baseball game) on A&E. We always get a laugh from his shananigans.

I picked up the cookbook, "Dining with Sherlock Holmes" at the library yesterday. It is a neat book. The recipes are great if you are into gourmet style cooking--which I am not! Simple peasant food is more my style these days. Anyway, there are little notes and quotes all through the book taken from all the stories about Sherlock Holmes that Conan Doyle wrote. I was surprised to learn that he had written 60 "tales", 56 are in the first person of Watson; 2 are in the words of Holmes himself; and 2 are in the third person.

Phyll

I got an e-mail from Lorrie, telling me she can't get out of a progrqm she has running on her computer and can't log on to the internet. She asked me to post this for her in the DL discussions and Books/Movies. Lorrie may have to wait till Monday to call the manufacturers for help. I told her about a procedure that has worked for me in the past about getting out of a frozen program.

Horrors!! Our Lorrie, TRAPPED in the computer!! I hope she can get out, thanks for that, Bill!

I wondered where she was!!

Ginny

Hi, folks. Lorrie still cannot get on the internet or the Web. At the moment she is sitting with her ear glued to the phone waiting for some tech help, which she could not get over the weekend. I know she'll be back as soon as she can. Just thought I'd come in and tell you.

Darn! Last night in bed I thought of a movie I really liked made from a book I liked, too. Do you think I can remember it in broad daylight? Nope.

Let's keep this discussion going for Lorrie, okay? Any more ideas about male detectives? Want to start on the female ones? I can't remember one of those, either. I'm in great shape today! Well, I'm concentrating on getting two of the electronic magazines I publish on the web. I'll use that as an excuse!

Mal

Well, how about the terrific Book Into Movie (for TV) that was on Masterpiece Theatre last night? I so very much enjoyed David Copperfield even though it has been done so many times.

This production has a really tremendous cast and the best one of course, was Maggie Smith playing the part of Aunt Betsy. She is wonderful. The lst part was last night and the second is on PBS tonight.

Sorry that Lorrie is temporarily disconnected from SrNet. Waiting for technical help is the most aggravating pastime in the world!

Phyll

I agree with you about David Copperfield and Maggie Smith, Phyll.

It's not too bad if the tech help has a toll free number. But if not, WOW!!

If you can get through to Lorrie. Tell her to try pressing the CTL,ALT AND DELETE keys simultainiously. This has allways worked for me. It shuts down the computer by allowing you to chose commands from a dialogue box. Then you can restart the computer and do what you want. After the computer shuts down I remove the disk and restart it.

I rented the video "My Fair Lady." I have to see Jeremy Brett's "Freddy." I remember him of "Rebecca" and Sherlock Holmes fame.

It's going to be a real treat watching him play "Freddy."

Bill

Help. I've been lurking in the shadows but must come forward now that I see Lucas Davenport listed in the detectives. Does anyone know if any of John Sanford's books have been made into movies? He's one of my favorite authors. I'm enjoying your interesting comments. Marj

Mary Page and Phyll: I thought that was a good rendition of David Copperfield, didn't you? Sometimes a movie can actually improve a book's appeal.

M: I love Lucas Davenport, and I've real all Sandford's books! I feel as though I know him personally, because he's right from here, the Twin Cities area, and i used to read his newspaper column daily in the St. Paul Pioneer Press. I'm familiar with all the places he writes about, but unfortunately, I don't think they've made a movie yet on any of his books, but I did read maybe a TVSpecial?

Okay, everybody, I'm baaaaaack! Thanks Bill and Mal, and everybody else for keeping the fort. Someday I'll tell you about the horrible nightmare of the past five days tring to get out of a simple little program.More later, when I get caught up.

Lorrie

LORRIE...me, too! Only I was just plain hung up with a cable connection that wouldn't let me on the net or into email. My cable guy called this morning with instructions for me on how to re-do all my settings, and here I am! Got some dusting done over the weekend, tho!

BILL...My neighbor and I watched Freddy Thursday night. She hadn't seen "MFL" since it first came out, so it was fun to see her become enchanted.

I see "they" are doing "The Lord of The Rings" as a movie. I can hardly wait! That horrid animated version of a few years ago was the pits!

Love...Katie

Katie: Yeah, I not only cleaned my aprtment twice, but I finally cleaned out one of my closets! Isn't it awful that we have to wait until we're forced off the web to do our housekeeping? hahahah

M: Which one of John Sandford's books did you like best?

Lorrie

Okay, all you book lovers and movie watchers, time to clean up our viewing room and change the titles again!! Wipe up your messes, clean up that popcorn, snd settle back for a discussion about feminine crime-busters, FEMALE DETECTIVES! Look above to our new list and pick one or two, and let's talk about them!

Let’s start with Nancy Drew. Imagine my surprise when I found, after a little research, that the Nancy Drew books are still going strong! After 70 years, no less. How I loved reading about this intrepid young woman when I was a child! What adventures she had, and how wonderful to see how weell everything always turned out in the end.

Lorrie

LORRIE...I actually know one of the "Nancy Drew" authors! Her name is Millie Benson and she still writes for the Toledo Blade, where my dad was the Outdoor Editor for 57 years. She's in her 80s now, and no longer "becomes" Nancy, but she did for many years.

My favorite female sleuths are Patricia Anne and Mary Alice, the sisters who do a hilarious job of solving mysteries, as written by Anne George! Just ask JOAN GRIMES! She knows!

Love...Katie

Katie, Mary Page, Bill? I've been racking my brain trying to rememberthe girl whoplayed Nancy Drew in the movies way back when. Was it Bonita Granville?

Lorrie

LORRIE...you got it! Bonita Granville was Nancy, just about her only friendly role. Remember all the nasty girls she played in other movies?

Love...Katie

Yes, I often wonder if she was as nasty in real life as she could be on screen. But those books were great, weren't they? And they must have had something---look how long that character has lasted!

"The plucky sleuth has evolved into a '90s cultural icon, beloved by feminists and generations of young girls who identify with Nancy. Over the years, she has been locked in closets and car trunks, beaten up, choked and frightened by scurrying rats. She's inspired countless women to be aggressive, independent and curious. It's difficult to keep up with the incarnations of Nancy, whose first adventure, "The Secret of the Old Clock," was published in 1930. The books are the best-selling juvenile series in the world - more than 80 million books sold - and there are 18 new titles every year, written by various authors under the pseudonym Carolyn Keene. There are Nancy Drew books targeting 8-year-olds (Nancy Drew Files) and junior high students (Nancy Drew on Campus) and original Nancy Drew mysteries and modernized versions for 10- year-olds."

Lorrie

 
Miss Seeton  .............   Heron Carvic 

Miss Silver  .............   Patricia  W ? 

Miss Marple  .............   Agatha Christie 

Charlotte Pitt ...........   Anne Perry 

V.I. Warshawski ..........   Sara Paretsky 

Cat Marsala ..............   Barbara D'Amato 

Jemima Shore .............   Antonia Fraser 

Amelia Peabody ...........   Elizabeth Peters

Mary Page: Impressive list there, Mary. Some of them I don't recognize, but hey, that doesn't mean anything! Outside of some of the Miss Marple stories, do you know if ay of these ladies ever appeared in movies or on TV? They might have, but with a different title. Anybody know?

Lorrie

Back to Nancy Drew, I loved the drawings of the cars in the 1930s books, those big beautiful roadsters. I imagine everything's been steadily modernized as the years have passed.

Yes, Lorrie, I remember Jemima Shore in a couple of TV shows -- Was it Mystery Theater?? Very good books and shows. V.I. Warshoski was played by, I think, Melanie Griffith in a movie-- but MG was far from my mental image of V.I. I remember it was not well received by the critics. Too bad, because the books are great. I enjoyed last night's David Copperfield very much. Not a mystery, but certainly worth viewing!

They have made the very first Charlotte Pitt movie from the story before she became Mrs. Pitt. Her husband is actually the detective, but Charlotte does all the detecting. I think the first book was called " Cater Street Hangman" and was on either A & E or PBS.

I have heard there are more Anne Perry books to be filmed.

Don't know whether Miss Silver ever has been or not.

Miss Seeton has not, but SHOULD be. If you love to laugh along with your mysteries, try her!

I do not know about Cat or Amelia. They could very well be done, though doing Amelia would probably be expensive because it is all Egypt.

I can't believe my eyes, you are talking about BONITA GRANVILLE! When I was a child I loved the books written about HER! SHE was the detective, like Nancy Drew, and Cherry Ames, Student Nurse, but Bontia Granville solved mysteries. Used to love those books, would give anything to find one today, think I'll go look on Bibliofile just for the heck of it!

Ginny

Sorry about that. It was Kathleen Turner who played V.I. Warshawski not Melanie G., but I do tend to be confused about those two AND Michelle Pfieffer. I can never keep them straight!! Senior moments galore!!!

You know, mem, I agree. With the mental image I have of Warshawski, I just can't see Melanie Griffiths there. I didn't see the movie, and apparently didn't miss much.

Mary Page: Cater Street Hangman? I think I saw it advertised on A&E, but darn that's one I missed.

Attention! They are showing a Hetty Wainwright story on Public TV Thursday night, I think it's 10:00 EST. Check it out!

Lorrie

Even Kathleen Turner and Michele Pfeiffer don't seem quite right, in my estimation.

Ginny! You mean Bonita Granville had her own detective stories, outside of playing Nancy Drew? Let us know what you find!

Lorrie

Lorrie, glad to see you back where you belong! Housekeeping we always have with us but not fun discussions. Ahem, I think it should be Jane Tennant played by Helen Mirren. (:

Katie, those two ladies you mentioned by author Anne George wouldn't be the Snoop Sisters, would they? I remember Mildred Natwick and Helen Hayes in the TV series many years ago. I'm waiting with trepidation to see how "Lord of the Rings" will be done this time - it's supposed to be live.

MaryPage, Charlotte Pitt - something is teasing my memory - are the books set in a previous era? Maybe 1890s or so?

Eileen

Yes, Eileen. Am not certain of the years, but eighteen nineties sounds about right.

Katie, I'm going to watch "MFL" tonight. Can't wait to see Fredd.

I watched "Sleuth" for the first time Sunday evening-AMC aired it. I missed it when it first came out. It was great.

I can't explain why, but I didn't like the "Prime Suspect" series. I think it may of been that I didn't care for the "Helen Nirren" character. There's some English detective TV series I just can't warm up to. However there are some I like very much.

Eileen and Lorrie,

You both are close but not quite right. It is Jane Tennison played by Helen Mirren.

I have been trying to think of female detectives that have come from books to movies and other than the ones already named I am having a hard time coming up with anyone. Compared to all the male detectives there sure aren't very many, are there?

Phyll

EILEEN...no, Anne George's sisters are not the Snoop Sisters, but they are lots more humorous. I loved "The Snoop Sisters" and was so disappointed when they stopped the show. Try "Murder On a Bad Hair Day", "Murder On a Girl's Night Out", or "Murder Runs In the Family". There are a couple of others, too, but one of these will get you started...$6 at my bookstore.

Love...Katie

Eileen, and Katie: Thank you, thank you! i was trying so hard to remember the name of those two goofy lady detectives who were so much fun to watch, and now you come up with the magic answer. The "Snoop Sisters!" I knew Helen Hayes was one, but wasn't sure of the other.

You're right, Phyll, compared to male detectives, our list is rather short. And Eileen and I get ten lashes with a wet noodle for not getting Jane Tennison's name right!

Bill, I can see why you wouldn't care too much for Helen Mirren in "Prime Time." I think she's a little too aggresive for most men, and the way she handles her job as Chief Inspector antagonizes a lot of men, including the ones she works with. You must admit, tho, that she's a fine actress. By the way, I enjoyed "Sleuth" too, with two very fine actors.

Lorrie

MaryPage, then I did read one of the books, ah, but which one, excuse me while I have a "mental" pause. (:

Phyll, whoops, I stand corrected - well at least I was right about the actress's name.

Katie, thanks for telling me about Anne George, I definitely will go to "Paperback Junction" and look her up.

Lorrie, wasn't that a great series, I loved it.

Eileen

Hey, Everybody! Don't forget to watch Hettie Wainwright on Mystery! tomorrow night on Public TV about 10:00 EST(?) check the time where you are.

Lorrie

I never, ever miss Hettie.

The music alone is worth the watch.

Just got my copy of Orbit and a charming article on Richard Farnsworth, who played Alvin Straight in The Straight Story? And was nominated for an Oscar this year?

He did win, as Lorrie reported, an Independent Spirit Best Actor Award. He says his recent success hasn't changed his lifestyle, that he's happy just being home on the range. "None of this has really affected my life," he says. "I have this ranch in New Mexico and I get up and feed the cows in the morning and watch them feed all day. That's the way I ranch. So success hasn't changed my life a bit." The article reported also that the producers of The Straight Story gave him a tractor at the wrap party so he may be doing a bit more plowing in the future. Charming, the entire project and man are charming.

I'm a big Hetty fan too but can never get her last name right!! I loved her in Keeping Up Appearances!

Ginny

Ginny, thanks for the update on Richard Farnworth. Ive always liked that man, in whatever movie he was in. To me he looks like everyone's grandfather, and he always seems to down to earth and full of common sense.

Lorrie

Well! Aren't you all the polite ones! No one commented on my horrible blunder in Post #658 when I mispelled Hetty's name in a big way. It's Wainthropp, not Wainwright! I just love the diplomatic way you tried to bring it to my attention, Ginny! Hahaha This calls for free popcorn all around, and I don't think mary Page would mind if you all helped yourselves to her chocolates. Just keep the smell of popcorn out of her direction!

Lorrie

Keep the popcorn off of the floor Please?

NO!!!???!!!

No no, not being diplomatic or anything else!! Didn't notice how you spelled Wainwhatever but I know I personally canNOT remember the end of the name, seems to combine several names so rather than look back at YOUR post (jeepers I'm so lazy) I just said the truth: can't remember her name@@!!!!

And I still can't!

But I do like the show!

Ginny

You can add me to the list of those with computer woes over the weekend. My modem burned out on Sunday, and it wasn't til last night that my daughter got me a new one and got it set up. I told her she had sure learned a lot since I taught her to spell computer. She bought her first PC to keep up with me while I was on the west coast--she did some subcontracting for me. Now she's the one who is doing things for me. Anyway, I'm back, and at 56K yet.

MaryPage

You are so right about the music. I was just thinking the other night watching one of my tapes of an A&E mystery how very much the music adds to the British productions. It's always distinctive and really fits the mood of the story. And I think that's true across the board of the British stuff, especially on Masterpiece Theatre.

MaryPage

Miss Silver was created by Patricia Wentworth.

And the Cater Street Hangman was an A&E production, and --I thought-- really true to the spirit of the books. I can hardly wait for the next one. A&E has such good mystery stuff, but not enough. I'd be glad if they never repeated one, just a brand new one every night. But, I can dream, can't I?

Jeanlock: How lucky you are to have a daughter who can help you now. I know what a bad time you must have had all weekend, mine was strictly the Weekend From Hell. Good to see you back!

I never particularly noticed the background music for those programs, guess I sort of took it for granted, but I'm sure going to take note in the future.

Ginger, I promise we'll all try to be careful about spilling stuff here. We don't want to lose our faithful housekeeper!

Ginny: We all love you, honest!

Lorrie

Hey there! Doesn't anyone remember the Avengers? How could we forget that really stylish Emma Peel, and her partner John steed? Now that was a mod-type program that became immensely popular during the 60's (?) That same intrepid Peel was played by Dame Diana Riggs, who is now also the host of Mystery Theatre, and a fine actress. John Steed was so quirkily suave, wasn't he? I loved that show!

Lorrie

Do you know, I never ever watched The Avengers with Diana Rigg as Emma Peel!

What I must have missed.

JeanLock, I thought the name was something like Wentworth, but did not want to appear the idiot you know so well I am! Glad to have you at 56 whatever. Are you getting around faster with it?

The music in Hetty whatsername is kind of lilting when she is about to take off on another adventure, and that is when I most particularly love it.

Patrick McNee was John Steed, I always enjoyed him too.

Is Hetty plaed by the same actress who does "Keeping Up Appearances"? If so, she is quite an accomplished actress, they had a bio of her on PBS fairly recently.

Eileen

Yes, it is the same actress, Eileen.

I do not care for the silliness in Keeping Up Appearances, thus do not watch it. But I do love the actress and am so glad she is Hetty.

I know we moved on. But I have to talk about "Freddy." I watched "MFL" last night and if some one hadn't told me that Freddy was Jeremy Brett of REBECCA and Sherlock Holmes fame, I would never of recognized him. He must not of been much older than the late twenties. I don't think he could of been older than 30, The longer I studied him the more I could detect his later life image. The eyes and the deep laugh and some of his manerisms came accross. But, again, if I hadn't of been told it was he, I would've let it zip right past. God, talk about change. I'm reminded of what Kirk Douglas recently said on the Larry King show when he looked in the mirror one morning: "This is all a mistake"

Bill H

BILL...yeah, but wasn't he neat? Jeremy as Freddie, I mean. Kirk Douglas is not one of my favorites, so I would've definitely agreed with his remark. Hehehe! The only thing I liked him in was "The Man From Snowy River", and he even overacted in that! I really like his son Michael, tho. Back to Jeremy Brett...one of the things that endeared me to him as Sherlock Holmes was the moués with his mouth. I may not be saying this right, but I hope you know what I mean.

Katie

Speaking of the Avengers, I used to love to watch the show just to see what kind of an outfit Emma Peel would be wearing. I think it was in that role as Emma that I first saw a complete, all-leather black outfit for a woman! She and John steed worked together with such aplomb and grace, didn't they?

Lorrie

LORRIE...she was sensational! We all wanted to be Emma Peel, I think, and she still looks great, as we can tell...in fact, I thought she looked better last night than the last few times I've seen her. A new hairstyle, maybe? Yesterday I received a British PBS video catalog and it had ALL the old Avengers episodes, including one that was considered too risqué for American audiences. This was in 1966...have we matured since then? Just looked them up in the catalog. You can have them for $30 a series, and each series has 6 episodes. There are eight series all together, and cover the years '65,'66, and '67. You can even get them them in DVD, for $45 each. Shall I take orders? HEHEHE!

Love...Katie

Dear Katie: That's an attractive offer, but you know what? I think I'll just be a pest yet and borrow some copies from my neighbor who is also of a fan of the Avengers. Katie, I have to hand it to you and Mary Page. You certainly know where to find information.

I just discovered a real treasure! In researching women sleuths I discovered a book written by Laurie King, with a character named Mary Russsell, who becomes a sort of protege of Sherlock Homes! But I'll quote this from the publishers: "Imagine Sherlock Holmes retiring to a Sussex farm but keeping his hand in by occasionally investigating cases for the British government. Imagine further that Watson was not so much Holmes' helpmate and confidant as a kindly bumbler who proved more a hindrance than a help. Then picture Holmes, walking on the Sussex Downs, literally stumbling across a 15-year-old girl whose brilliant intellect, caustic wit, egotistical personality, and gift for detail rival Holmes' own. Finally, envision the stirring adventures Holmes and his protegee could have as a detective duo. King has used these fanciful possibilities to create a wonderfully original and entertaining story that is funny, heartwarming, and full of intrigue, with Holmes and his young apprentice, Mary Russell, matching wits with some of the finer criminal minds of the times, including the brilliantly diabolic daughter of Holmes' old enemy, Professor Moriarty. Everything about this book rings true, from the ambience of World War I England to the intriguing relationship between Holmes and Mary to the surprising final confrontation between Holmes and Moriarty's daughter. Holmes fans, history buffs, lovers of humor and adventure, and mystery devotees will all find King's book absorbing from beginning to end." Wow! I'm going to hie right over to the library and see if they have this book. It's called "Beekeeper's Apprentice," and this Mary Russell sounds just like the kind of person who should be on our list up above. The reviews have been very good, also! Has anyone else ever read this? Lorrie

MaryPage

Yes, the 56K does help a lot getting around. I had 67 messages waiting for me, and they downloaded in just a couple of minutes. I figured it would be 10-20 minutes and prepared to go do something while I waited. And before I could get out of my chair (I move slowly these days), they were all there.

I think my favorite BBC music was for Brideshead Revisited. I sometimes put the tapes on just to have that music. Oh how I loved that show! Someday I will get around to reading the book.

Bill

I didn't see the Kirk Douglas appearance, but I identify completely with the thought. I'm ROFLOL!!! That will cheer me up the next time I see that old lady in the mirror.

MaryPage, I did see part of the show last night on PBS. The biography and interviews with the actress were very interesting. And she was slim and pretty as a young actress too!

jeanlock, yeah, who IS that old lady in the mirror? (:

Lorrie, o my, another book to look for - my list is getting too long!

Eileen

Lorrie, I think the Snoop Sisters were played by Helen Hayes and Mildred Natwick.

I have read your quote somewhere but just didn't think it looked too interesting for a serious read. Too contrived? Maybe?

I forgot that the Nancy Drew mysteries were movies. I remember reading all of the books that were available in '47 in one month. My mother insisted that I would ruin my eyesight!

I,too, am getting tired of Keeping Up Appearances and the lady's name is Patricia Routledge or Ruttledge, something like that?

Speaking of music, does anyone remember a three-part PBS Mystery called "Brat Farrer" that was on some years ago? It was a great story and had delightful background music.

No, but if we're going to go back in time, and since we seem to have this mutual admiration of British mysteries, does anyone remember Rumpole of the Bailey? My husband, rest his soul, hardly ever missed one of those segments, and Leo Carey, I think it was, who played Rumpole, cracked him up. Especially when he referred to his wife as "She Who Must Be Obeyed!" I believe it was John Mortimer who wrote the books.

Lorrie

RICKI...I do remember the name, "Brat Farrar", but I sure don't remember the music!

LORRIE...of course! Rumpole! How could we have passed him by? The thing that always amused me was when he donned the solicitor's wig. What a ratty thing to have to wear on your head. Hehehe!

Love...Katie

Oh yes, Lorrie and Katie, "Rumpole of the Bailey" was one of the best shows. We get the videos free from the library plus when we are traveling we listen to the audios of his shows. My husband and I are big fans of his. Such fun listening to his moaning about the office and his wife. "She who must be obeyed!"

Adored Rumpole, that old scalliwag! He was always fixing things by pulling off outrageous schemes.

I am at my youngest daughter's home near Annapolis, Maryland for the long weekend. It suddenly occurred to me there is no reason why I cannot contact you via Her computer!

Arts & Entertainment is showing a Reginald Hill book tonight at 9:00 o'clock. A Dalziel & Pascoe murder mystery. I read the book, thus can hardly Wait! My daughter & I are going to watch it together. Her husband and daughters are in the Florida Keys for the holidays, but she wanted to catch up with grading papers, getting rested, etc., while they are gone. They, on their part, cannot imagine how she could give up being out on a fishing boat all day with them. SHE, on the other hand, finds being home alone with their dog a REAL vacation!

MARY PAGE...been there, done that! My best vacations were when my husband took the three boys fishing. Hope your daughter and you have a nice, relaxing weekend. And thanks for the prompt about the show on A&E tonight. I'll be sure to watch, since Dalziel and Pascoe are real favorites.

Love...Katie

Lorrie, I looked up "Rumpole's" real name - it was Leo McKern. Wonderful actor, I enjoyed that series.

HAPPY EASTER, EVERYBODY!

Eileen

Jeanlock and Eileen, instead of us looking in the mirror, what we should do is get a young photograph of ourselves and let the photo grow old. I'm trying to remember the name of that picture I saw were the guy's photo grew old and not him. That is untill the end. I think Dana Andrews played in it but I'm not sure. Does any one know the title of the picture.

It's hard to believe that the "avenger" series first aired in '66. There is no rocket ship as fast as time. I watched the avenger series faithfully; I enjoyed seeing Emma Peel in those short mini skirt that were so popular in the '60s

Lorrie, what was the name of that Sherlock book that you just talked about.

Bill H

Eileen: How glad I am that we have these wonderful fact-finders here to do some research! Thanks, Eileen, Leo McCarey it was, and how well he played that part! What was it that Rumpole called that cheap wine he was always drinking? Somehing like"............on the Thames?" And when he would sass that judge in court with his muttered asides, all with that silly-looking wig on, he was priceless!

Bill, the story you're thinking about could be "The Picture of Dorian Gray," about how a man's portrait relentlessly grew older and more evil through the years, yet he stayed forever young. It was a haunting story, with Hurd Hatfield in it, and I think it was written by Oscar Wilde. It's on tonight, on TV. That's two we have to see, along with Pascoe and Dalziel. Thank Heaven for VCR,s!

Lorrie

OOps! Bill, you asked about the book about Sherlock Holmes' protege, called Mary Russell. The book is titled "The Beekeeper's Apprentice," written by Laurie King, and it got very good reviews. I'm thinking it might be a good book to review, if they haven't already done so here. There's another one in regard to Sherlock, called "Napoleon of Crime," which is a true story of an arch-criminal on whom it is said Conan Doyle based his Professor Moriarity character.

Lorrie

A Very Happy Easter and Passover to All!

Yes, Lorre, "The Picture Of Dorian Gray." And what a conincidence that it's on tonight. I didn't know that when I posted. Thanks for the two Sherlock titles. And of course

HAPPY EASTER AND PASSOVER TO ALL

Bill H

Yes, I remember that. The book is by Josephine Tey. However, at this late date I'm afraid I don't remember the music. But you're right--it's a good story.

Lorrie--I do remember the Rumpole series. I taped a lot of them and enjoy them every time I watch them. Yes, it's John Mortimer who wrote the books. All of the cast was wonderful. I perk up every time I see one or the other of them in other productions.

And tonight--Recalled to Life by Reginald Hill, on A&E. I just read the book a short while ago, so am really looking forward to the movie.

See you all tonight at nine! My daughter and I went to the Amish Market at Harbor Place here today, and I am Loaded with their homemade chocolates. Please do have some before I eat them all!

love from marypage

For all of you who celebrate it, I wish you a

Very Happy Easter!

Hmmmmm. Sorry to report that I was less than thrilled with Dalziel and Pascoe tonight. It seemed to drag terribly, and I almost resorted to reading an article about Groucho Marx while trying to maintain interest in the show. I was tickled to see one of my favorite actors as the Chief Inspector, tho. Can't tell you his name, since the credits are unreadable at the end, but he was the snooty antiques dealer on the Lovejoy series.

And may you all find a big chocolate rabbit in your basket tomorrow!

Love...Katie

Thank you, Mal, and the very same to you!!

Mary Page, leggo those chocolates! Save some of them for here, please!

I was thinking of you, Katie, and Mary Page, as I watched Dalziel and Pascale tonight, and I have to confess I switched it off to see the tail end of "Picture of Dorian Gray," actually a much better movie!

Lorrie

I've been sitting here thinking, and having re-watched the movie, or part of it, "Dorian Gray", I finally remembered something. An actor I've admired for years and more so even as she grew older, is Angela Lansbury. She's been in countless very good movies, but she's mostly well known for her TV series "Murder She Wrote!" How could I have been so remiss to leave out that intrepid female author-detective Jessica!! And all her cohorts up there in (is it Cabot Cove?) There were many disappointed people when CBS cancelled her show, including myself.

Lorrie

A very happy Easter to all.

Bill H

LORRIE...oh, is my face red! You're not the only only one who forgot about Jessica!!! She was, and is, so super...and she is on A&E every day in re-runs. What a very special person Angela Lansbury is! I was privileged to see her in person on Broadway in "Sweeney Todd", and I swear that she has more talent in her little finger then any of the so-called "stars" in Hollywood can muster up in their whole beings.

Love...Katie, who will no doubt live on chocolate today. Happy Easter!

I love the Lauri King series.. She has done two.. One is the Mary Russell/Sherlock Holmes and the other is a west coast policewoman... Both fascinating.. Mary Russell is quite interesting, but I dont think the series has hit tv.. I would watch if it did. Never could get with the program for Rompole and I love English mysteries..

Stephanie: Was it because you didn't care for the character or that you just couldn't get it on the TV? (Rumpole, I mean) I go to the library tomorrow to get some of Laurie King's books. They look interesting.

Katy: Take your mouth away from that chocolate bunny for a minute. I understand the of all the actors and performers in Hollywood and on Broadway, Angela Lansbury is considered one of the most gracious, and I understand she's very well liked by her peers. You were lucky to see her in N.y. Did you see the role she played in "Picture of Dorian Gray?" Sheer sweet innocence, and she has a lovely singing voice, too!

Lorrie

LORRIE...I haven't seen "Dorian Gray" recently, but I do remember her. It always perks me up to see Angela in an old movie, as Liz Taylor's older sister in "National Velvet", as the nasty in "The Harvey Girls", plus "The Three Musketeers", "Samson and Delilah", and so many others. It's amazing how many movies she has been in! So good, but never trusted with a true leading lady role, in movies, until fairly late in her life. And yet, Broadway knows how good she is! She is a true star there, with how many Tony awards?

Love...Katie

Katie, and Ann Page, too: What was the name of the movie that Angela Lansbury was in with Frank Sinatra and Lawrence Harvey? It was a real thriller, with the playing card Queen of Diamonds featured prominently. It's right on the tip of my tongue, but I know one or both of you will tell me.

Lorrie

Ha! I beat you to it!! I just remembered. It was "The Manchurian Candidate," and Lansbury was super in her evil role.

Lorrie

Hi! Back from a wonderful weekend vacation. I never saw that movie, Lorrie.

MARY PAGE..."The Manchurian Candidate" is a classic! Rent the video or watch the listings for AMC. They run it every few weeks.

Here I am, reading the posts, coming up with answers to questions that are answered before I can get here!!! Oh well, I agree, Angela Lansbury is wonderful.

Lorrie, the only thing that really stood out for me on "Rumpole" was "she who must be obeyed" - love it, love it, love it!

Eileen

Welcome back, Mary Page! Yes, you'll love Manchurian Candidate! They seem to be showing it all over the channels, too, as Katie says.

Hi, Eileen! Yes, Rumpole is a gasser, isn't he? Like somebody else here mentioned, I cracked up every time I saw him in that silly wig! John Mortimer, the author, once said he saw himself in the character he'd created. Mortimer was also a barrister in real life.

Lorrie

Oh, I love the lady detective, Jessica! And Angela Lansbury! Seems to me that she might have played Auntie Mame on Broadway,too. Is that right? If she didn't, she should have! Did you know that she and her husband moved to Ireland when their sons were in their teens and were having problems. She said that she didn't want them raised here where our value system was slipping and where drugs were just too available. Looks to me, when the credits roll on "Murder She Wrote" that her whole family is involved in producing and writing the scripts.

ANN...Angela definitely played "Mame" on Broadway. One of her Tonies, I think. I remember reading all about the family moving to Ireland, and she dropped out of acting for several years until her kids were raised. The pictures of their home there were fascinating...as far from any Hollywood decorators as you could get! All very basic and very plain. She also was one of the first to talk about her frequent facelifts. Which explains why I look OUR age and she doesn't!

Love...Katie

Here's a trivia question: What was the name of the actor who was featured in so many of "Murder, She Wrote" scripts. I believe he played the part of the local Chief of Police, and wasn't there some talk of a romance between him and Jessica?

Lorrie

Katie Sturtz

Yep, I do agree with you about that show. I think the real problem was the way they tried to adapt the book. The book was a twisted read, and the plot convolutions difficult. I kept having to repeat to myself a sort of mantra when picking it up after laying it down for a while. It could almost do with a sort of diagram showing the relations among the characters. And, unless I misremember (it's possible), the ex-con woman came to the states, and so did Dalziel. I just think the fault lies with the adaptor. Fortunately my VCR knew better than I and refused to record it. (Actually, I had the setup wrong)

Lorrie

There were a couple of actors who played against Jessica occasionally on that show. Both had my heart going pittypat and I could never understand how Jessica could so cooly turn them down. Keith Mitchell (remember him--Henry the VIII on the PBS series) played the reformed jewel thief; Len Carriou (sp) played the British intelligence guy who kept turning up at odd times. They both had oodles of appeal.

Ann Alden

And, she also played in Sweeney Todd which I saw in SF. She was really good. In my opinion one of the great ladies of our theater scene.

About the facelift. I read back then that her husband threatened to divorce her if she didn't lose some weight. I thought that extremely cruel, and felt so sorry for her having to go to extreme measures under such a threat. I'm not condeming cosmetic surgery, maintaining weight, just the fact that her husband threatened to divorce her for her appearance rather than for --as they say-- who she is.

JEANLOCK...did he really threaten her with divorce? I remember her saying that she got a facelift so she wouldn't lose her husband, but I was thinking "another woman", not threats! How old do you have to be before you are too old for a facelift? Just curious...

Love...Katie

Katie Sturtz

I'm not aware that there is an age limit. My point is that it should be a free choice. Not because the hubby wants a younger looking wife. Where's the shared-life concept in this? You're fat and have wrinkles--never mind that we've been together for umpteen years. I'm sure glad he wasn't my husband.

Lorrie, I believe the Police Chief was played by Tom Bosley (also the father on Happy Days) Murder She Wrote was a great series -- not many that good, in my opinion. TB also was in the series, Father Dowling Mysteries which were good, but didn't follow the book that I read. Possibly the series was just "inspired by" the books.

mem: you're right---Tom Bosley. I like him and have seen him as the priest in the other series, too.

Jeanlock, and Katie: What an atrocious thing to say to a wife! Lose weight or I'll divorce you! When my husband and I went to his nephew's wedding to a lovely girl, who also had a charming personality, Nephew said to us after the ceremony, "I told her if she ever got fat, I'm out the door," and he was serious! I was disgusted with him.

Lorrie

mem got here first, I agree that the police chief was the adorable Tom Bosley. . .there was another one but he was much younger, don't know his name.

If my husband told me that, I'd say here's your hat, what's the hurry! (: Angela Lansbury may have been just kidding - actors, especially women, have to keep their appearance up so they won't be relegated to the dump heap. It can be a cruel world out there.. Good thing my job doesn't depend on looks!

Eileen

We were speaking of British mysteries, and particularly mysteries that featured women detectives. Does anyone remember the name of the British murder mysteries that featured the wonderful talents of Dame Margaret Rutherford? She was hilarious, in her sort of "tweedy" way, and I always loved her in those stories.

Lorrie

But of course. Joan somebody (and much more Miss Marple than was Margaret Rutherford!) played her to perfection later.

But the Margaret Rutherford movies, I believe there were three made, of Agatha Christie's MISS MARPLE were Wonderful just for the superb Miss Rutherford.

To all you readers, and movie fans! I have a question. I'm curious as to why British mysteries are so much more popular here than our own home-made genre? Is it the understated humor? The lack of violence as compared to American mysteries? I'm curious. Your opinion, please!

Incidentally, does anyone else have the same difficulty I have deciphering what those British actors are saying? Even with my cordless headphones on, it's difficult for me to understand their speech, and I know it's not just my hearing.

Lorrie

MaryPage,

It was Joan Hickson who played Miss Marple on the t.v. Mystery and she will always be the only Miss Marple for me. We also have several books on tape in which she reads the part of Miss Marple. I just love it when she says, "Oh, dear!"

Lorrie,

I think you hit on why I like some English mysteries--the lack of graphic violence. However, I don't really care for the more gritty ones. I watched Helen Mirren for her acting not so much for the stories. And yes, I have a lot of trouble understanding the British regional accents, sometimes. The so-called public school accent I can deal with but when they get into London street accents or Yorkshire, etc. I get lost and have to hope that eventually I can figure out the story line as it goes along. My husband and I both can not figure out why the British audio is so terrible. It would seem that eventually they would learn how to improve that. At least as far as quality of audio, I think the Americans win hands down over the British.

Phyll

Hear, Hear! Phyll! Well said.

Lorrie

Does anyone remember the detective series with a Scottish detective - now he was one I could barely understand - sometimes not at all!

I do NOT like to read books with mayhem, foul language, graphic sex scenes, brutality - I want to escape into a book and enjoy myself! So, hurray for Christie, Sayers, Marsh etal!

Eileen

Oh, come on, now! How can you beat Margaret Rutherford in anything??? I liked Joan Hickson, but speaking of not being able to understand what the Brits are saying, she was the worst! She spoke so low and with such little inflection that she was very difficult for me to catch. I do think, tho, that the more you hear it, the easier it gets to figure out those English accents. You know...about the time you begin to think with a British accent.

I say now...Love, Katie

Oh yes, Margaret Rutherford was wonderful but I thought she was Dame May Whittey, so what do I know. I just know that we have enjoyed getting those old movies of her from the library.

As to accent, Lorrie, yes, I do remember one from Scotland and I couldn't understand it either so I turned it off. But I do try, because I love and English mystery.

The quality of the audio is very important and for years, I have believed that British movie sound was not as good as American. Neither is Australian or New Zealand. We are the best in the sound department.

Lorri, Gary--

This section appears as Books into ovies on my screen. It's dropping letters again. Just to alert you.

Eileen--

It wasn't a quote from Angela L about the divorce threat; it was something that was written about her. And if you watch the series (I see it every day on A&e) you will notice that there were some episodes in which she really didn't look at her best. Later ones she looked better.

I agree with Phyll that Joan Hickson (thank you, Phyll!) was THE Miss Marple.

At the same time, I adored Margaret Rutherford in ANYTHING! She was a treat to watch just for herself alone; didn't matter what she was in.

I rarely have any trouble with any of the accents. But have been reading the books and watching the movies and videos for years. Also, I watched EASTENDERS for, oh, 15 years or whatever. If you can get to where you understand what THEY are saying, you can understand anything! I enjoy the work of deciphering what they are saying.

I prefer the British mysteries because they are more civilized. The writers seem to take more time to make them delightful. They rarely ever have anything to do with guns. The murder usually takes place off scene, in or close to Chapter One. There are not all those ghastly chase scenes. You get to know the people better, and most of them are people you quite like. Americans tend to gross things up and put them in places I would not be caught in (Vegas and other gambling pits, etc.) and the whole scene is more often guns, sex, drink, drugs, violence and thuggery. Yes, I KNOW there are exceptions, and I read a number of those. But taking the whole of each country's output into consideration, and allowing myself only one or the other on a desert island, I'll take the Brits anytime!

Jeanlock: I don't know what you mean by "dropping letters." Is anyone else having problems?

I say, old chaps, shall we have a spot of tea about now?

Lorrie

Lorrie,

Could we perhaps have a scone with that tea?

No dropped letters here----not even "aitches", as the Cockney's say.

Phyll

Oooooo yessss, I like the British mysteries too. British anything, ackchewlay. Jean Hickson was marvelous but then so was Margaret Rutherford. The accent CAN be a bit offputting.

I watched a delightful British movie just the other evening on TV. "The Full Monty" I probably missed half the dialogue in that bludy Yorkshire accent but the acting was good enough to tell the story which I found hilarious! Anyone see that one?

Among my all time favorite movies are the early comedies starring Alec Guiness. "The Lavender Hill Mob" "Man in the White Suit" etc etc

Oh, Jeryn, I laughed my head off at the movie "The Full Monty." Of course, they didn't really do it until the very end, but I didn't see a thing, really, and I thought it was done in such a hilarious way that it offset aany possible salaciousness.

When you mention "The Lavender Hill Mob," it brought back fond memories. I liked the little old lady who thought she was renting to a very nice group of chamber-music lovers. Alec Guiness was perfect in that part!Just another plus for British mysteries!

Everyone, don't forget Hetty Wainwright Thursday nite on Public TV!

Lorrie

Oh Jeryn & Lorrie, I adored The Full Monty. Thought it was not for me after reading the first review, but then a trusted friend told me I would love it, so I got the video. Wonderful! And no, you do not really see the full monty: only the audience in the Movie does. But it is Such a Romp!

Friday night starting at 8:00 p.m. EDT, the Turner Movie Classics channel ( TCM ) is showing a marathon of Nancy Drew movies with Bonita Granville. I think I read every Nancy Drew ever written; at least, all that were written up until I was 13. I expect there may have been more after that, but I was then too old for them.

MARYPAGE...they are still writing the Nancy Drew mysteries, so there are probably quite a few since you were 13. Do you plan to try to play catch up? ;0)

Rats! I noticed that The Full Monty was on TV the other night, but watched something else instead. I might have known I missed something!

Love...Katie

No, Katie, I'll give that challenge a pass!

If you enjoy things British and enjoy their comedy, you will enjoy The Full Monty. I am very choosy about my comedy. For instance, I hate silliness and slapstick. This movie is neither, it is just plain funny. There is also a lot of sad reality in it. But you grow to feel close to the characters and to care about them.

Nancy Drew movies? Shades of bobby-sox and saddle shoes! I'm going to tune in just to see if I'm really that much older. haha

Yes, I think the charm of The Full Monty is the meaningful way the characters are depicted. You actually care about these guys!

Lorrie

You make me want to watchTheFull Monty,,, will try and catch it next time I see it listed.. I like some English mysteries.. But loved some of the longer stuff. The Forsythe Saga years and years ago was wonderful. My husband immediately fell in love with Nyree Dawn Porter who played Irene... Watched it faithfully for any and all appearances of her. I loved Margaret Rutherford, although I am sure that Dame Christie would not have been fond of the portrayall Miss Marple above all was a lady..

Stephany,

Yes, a very very proper lady. That is why I can see Joan Hickson as Miss Marple much more easily than I can accept Rutherford. Although, I think MR was a truly wonderful character actress I just couldn't be comfortable with her as Miss M.

Phyll

jeanlock, yes, I see Angela's shows from time to time , I remember she also had lost some weight as well as getting a face lift and you could tell in the different shows.

I thought "The Full Monty" was hilarious - I really did have a hard time understanding all the dialogue but my pal, Joyce and I loved it.

Stephanie, the Forsythe Saga was wonderful - wasn't that the first of the masterpiece theatre shows? I started out hating "Soames" (Eric Porter) and ended up liking him. And who can forget "Upstairs, Downstairs". I have to say the English really know their stuff, the settings, clothes, everything is always perfect.

Eileen

It has been DECADES since they showed The Forsythe Saga. I would think they would show it again for the younger generations. The books were HEAVENLY. One of those series that never got tiresome and you wanted them to go on forever and ever.

Not that it matters any, but it's The Forsyte Saga, not Forsythe, and it was written by one of my favorite writers, John Galsworthy. I've read that book several times, and I loved the TV series. Can anybody tell me who played Soames? I've forgotten his name, and I loved that guy.

Woops! I see by the post above that it was Eric Porter. Thanks!

Mal

Mal, it was more than one book. I've forgotten how many, but would guess at least ten and probably more.

Hi, Everybody: I think you all should know that Mal, who just posted here, is the publisher of two very successful emagazines on the 'net. One is called WREX Pages, and the other is Sonata Magazine for the Arts. Check out these two. This issue of Sonata has stories by many of the people who post in these discussions. Like me, for instance (ahem!) abd a very good story by Robby, with whom most of you are acquainted. And our own Charlotte, too! Come read these delightful magazines!

http://www.sonatapub.com/

Lorrie

"The Forsyte Saga," "A Modern Comedy," and "End of a Chapter"--the first two tremendous favorites of mine and re-read many times throughout the years since I was a teenager. And yes, I'd like to see that series again.

Oh...Thanks, Teach.
Well, let's just say I've read those books.

Thanks for the plug, Lorrie. You're my pal and one of the most popular writers in Sonata magazine for the arts.

Don't forget the m.e.stubbs poetry journal!

There's one thing I'm curious about. In England, there are many female detectives written about, and male, but I can't remember any particular man-woman team of detectives, can you? Outside of The Avengers, I mean. Here in the States we had Nick and Nora, and Asta, their dog, then MacMillan and Wife, and the Moonlighting duo with Bruce Wills and Cybil Shepherd. Can anyone think of any English husband/wife detective teams?

Lorrie

Agatha Christie wrote about a husband and wife detective team, but I can't seem to remember their names - something like Tommie and Tupence. Anyone remember them?

Hello, there, jsnubbin! Let's hope somebody knows Agatha well enough to respond to your question. Do you have a favorite female detective? Or are you partial to british mysteries like so many of our posters here are? Let's hear from you!

Lorrie

jsnubbin is correct, and what fun they were! But how about Anne Perry's Charlotte Pitt? Her husband is the detective policeman, but She does all the detecting!

Malryn--

Forsyte Saga: Two books; Man of Property and In Chancery. Each book has a number of parts. Total pages in a Scribner's 1-volume version is 878. The TV production was in black and white and I guess that's why they don't replay it. I really wish they would. It was my all-time favorite of their productions. Every tiny detail was absolutely perfect. There's also a movie, "That Forsyte Woman" with Greer Garson.

jsnubbin--

Yes, the Agatha Christie pair were Tommy and Tuppence. Amusing, but never cared particularly for those books/stories.

JeanLock, there were a lot more than 2 books. I do not know how many books, perhaps there were only 2, he wrote ORIGINALLY. But then he went on to write several more about the family, and that group had a name of its own but was still part of "The Saga", and then still later he wrote some more about them and That set of books had still another name. Your library will have a shelf full of them. Count 'em.

And I just found this out by looking him up with my search engine. The first 5 books about the Forsytes were, after being published separately as he wrote them, in different years, later published together as a set which was TOGETHER called: THE FORSYTE SAGA. These 5 books were: The Man Of Property, Indian Summer of A Forsyte, In Chancery, Awakening, and To Let. Then he went on to write More books about the Forsytes: The White Monkey, The Silver Spoon, and Swan Song. After he wrote those 3 further books, they too were published together as a set in addition to having been published separately as single novels. These books when put together were called: A Modern Comedy. Finally, he wrote still 3 more about this family: Maid In Waiting, Flowering Wilderness, and Over The River. After Those 3 came out, they too were put in a set together titled: END OF THE CHAPTER. But most people just refer to all of these books together as The Forsyte Saga.

I hesitate to post right after the lowdown there on Galsworthy's three great trilogies; I step softly and speak in hushed tones in reverence to his memory! Really.

Just wanted to mention yet another book made into a movie. Today was opening day for the movie "Where the Heart Is" [Billie Lett's novel] and on a lark I went to see it. It's sweet. It's at least a 2-hankie chick flick but sweet.

Ihave never seen videos offered and would buy them in a minute. For both my husband and I, they were one of the very very few DONT MISS shows. There was another about the exploration of the South Pole about 15 years ago.. The one about the race for the pole by Amundsen ( spelling is probably off) and the englishman who died. Excellent and never reshown that I know of. I wasnot quite as fond of Upstairs-Downstairs. A sort of example of husband and wife detectives could be Lord Peter and Harriet...

I just threw out, not two days ago, a catalogue of all British TV videos. There could have been an offer of the Forsyte Saga in there. I can't swear to it, of course, but I seem to have a fleeting black and white picture floating in my memory cache. Hmmmmm. can't even remember the name of the catalogue. NOT the one with all the PBS stuff, including sweatshirts and knick knacks. Is there a list on the net about such things?

Love...Katie

Katie, I swear I get every video catalog out there, including the British one, and I have never, ever seen the Forsyte Saga offered. I think someone else said probably because in black & white, and I think that is probably correct.

But speaking of video sets of movies made from books, how about Robert Graves' " I Claudius". THAT was another of my all time favorites. Beautifully acted, with every gruesome detail included. An unforgettable way to learn about a bunch of the Emperors of Rome!

Stephanie, I liked Lord Peter, too.

Well, Katie and Mary Page, if you two can't find anything in regard to Mal'e question about where to find the videos for The Forsyte Saga. nobody can!

Lorrie

Stephanie: Was it possibly "The Red Tent" that you were thinking of? About the South Pole? With Peter Finch and Sean Connery? If so, that was a very good movie! Also from a book.

Lorrie

MaryPage, I remember the, I Claudius, series very well. Derek Jacobi did such a fine job and speaking of detectives, he plays a medieval monk who solves mysterious deaths - Brother Caedmon, I think? Patrick Stewart aka Jean Louis Pickard, was in "Claudius" too.

I looked up the "Saga" in the movie database to see if there was any information on a video for sale and couldn't find anything.

I don't know how to put in a link but here is the address for the movie database for anyone who is interested.

http://us.imdb.com/search

Eileen

MaryPage--

Let's see what we can find at McKay's next week. My 1-volume collection says, "This edition contains the complete Forsyte saga, including the three original novels--The Man of Property, In Chancery, and To Let--and their connecting interludes--Indian Summer of a Forsyte and Awakening. I'll try to see if any others can be found in the Virginia libraries. Our local libraries are online and I also have the link (or did have, until I upgraded Netscape) for the big library in Richmond. Believe me, if there are more out there, I'd like to track them down and read them.

Okay, all you book lovers and movie buffs, it's time to say farewell to all our female detectives and move on to another category!
Time to clean up the popcorn again, wipe off the chocolate, empty the trash, and just tidy up.
Let's talk about that favorite American subject for years, Great Western Novels/Movies!

Lorrie

Hi, all! We will shortly be putting up a new list of Famous Western Novels Into Movies, and will be discussing some of the more obvious ones. In the meantime, try to remember some of the Westerns you've read in the past, and whether you liked the movie. We're hoping to attract a few men into this discussion---this seems to be a genre popular with the male sex, although I must say I've thrilled right along with the guys at a lot of them!

Lorrie

LORRIE...guess what I got just yesterday? "Lonesome Dove" in DVD! All 6 hours on one CD, if you can believe that. I haven't looked at it yet, but am looking forward to seeing it again.

Love...Katie

Riders of the Purple Sage----Zane Grey. The girl was played by the actress that was much later known as Della Street, Perry Mason's assistant. The male lead was played by her real-life husband at that time. Darned if I can remember their names---anyone else know?

May I please have a Heath bar along with my popcorn? Can't watch a movie without them.

Phyll

Katie, and Phyll: You may not believe this but both those movies are on the list of Great Westerns, if I ever get it up there! So hold those thoughts. Katie, you're in for a real treat to see Lonesome Dove! I especially liked Tommy Lee Joes in that.

Phyll: Of course you may have Heath bars! Our chocolate lady, Mary Page, will be along shortly to take your order! For anyone else, fresh popcorn is comin' up!

Lorrie

Phyll: Barbara Hale, or Della Street. She was married to Bill Williams, and they had a son William Katt, who also played in the Perry Mason series.

Lorrie

LORRIE...thanks for that. I looked up "Riders..." in Maltin's book, and he only listed the one made in 1926 or so, then mentioned that it had been made 2 or 3 more times and the dates, but not a mention of who was in them. Swell.

The first time I was ever concious of Tommy Lee Jones was in "Lonesome Dove" and I immediately fell for him. I've seen him in many movies since...loved "Men in Black"!!!...but he just does not look right without his white hair and mustache and beard! And I doubt if I'll still be around when he really HAS all that white stuff...

Love...Katie

Did you know Tommy Lee Jones and Al Gore were roommates in college? They are still great good pals.

Phyll, we have huge piles of Heath bars, but only the miniature size. Hope they will do.

Mary Page: That's very nice! Miniatures, you say? Well, that means Phyll can eat twice as many!

There's one Western that came out several years ago, and with not too much fanfare. But in my estimation it was one of the best Westerns ever made, and has always been a favorite of mine. I'm talking about "Shane," with Alan Ladd and Jack Palance, and the young Brandon de Wilde. Some reviewers called this story "a towering masterpiece," and I agree. Typical tale of good versus evil, but very well done!

Lorrie

LORRIE...Yeah, if you can stand Alan Ladd. I could never get past the fact that he was not much taller than I am, and that is SHORT! Maybe I should watch it again to see if I might like it more, now that I'm mellowing a bit. Hehehe!

Love...Katie

There you go again, Katie! Just forget the fact that Ladd was short and had to do his love scenes while standing on a box, but at least in Shane he spent most of his time on a horse or behind a gun, never that close to anyone, except the boy, who wasn't very tall, anyway. Didn't that final scene get to you, with "Shane" riding off into the sunset, and the little boy chasing after him, tears running down his face!

Lorrie

I think I have two "all-time favorite" western movies (You know me -- I can never have just one "all-time favorite" anything!). The first I'm pretty sure is not based on a book, but I still recommend Angel and the Badman (John Wayne in a very uncharacteristic role and Gail Russell). The other, and it is based on a novel, is The Ox-Bow Incident with Henry Fonda. It's hard to watch, but it is an excellent story.

(A runner-up is The Shepherd of the Hills, which is also based on a novel.)

You'll probably die at my choice for favorite Western movie...not based on a novel, I don't think. It's "The Sons of Katie Elder", with John Wayne, of course, Dean Martin, Earl Holliman, and Michael Anderson, Jr. as the four sons. Lots of action, some humor, and a whole bunch of poignancy. Don't ask me why...I just love it!

Love...Katie

Hey, Lorrie, that new Western heading list is great All those titles are excellent choices.I think a lot of guys will respond to those.

Good shot, Lorre!!

Bill H

Texas Songbird: Very good choices, indeed! Critics have always given high marks to "The Ox-bow Incident. The acting in that was superb, and it's the kind of story that haunts you for years.

And yes, The Angel and the Badman was a little different. I liked it a lot.

Katie, was the movie "Sons of Katie Elder" considered a comedy, or just another Western with a few humorous spots?

Lorrie

Hi, Bill! Which Western did you like the most?

Lorrie

Of that particular list

HIGH NOON stands out.

Oh me,, never ever watch a western willingly. When I was a kid, I adored Roy Rogers, but thats it folks..Never understood the big commotion about John Wayne either.. Just a hopeless person for the western or even the action type movies.

I know one we forgot----how could we?

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Paul Newman and Robert Redford are still two of the sexiest stars around.....maybe even more so now that they are older.

Mary Page-----Yum--Yum!!! Love Heath bars, whatever size they are.

Phyll

Lorrie, I woul pick "The Ox-Bow Incident." Mainly because of Henry Fonda. Fonda could make any movie good. But he did play a great part in this movie. There was a naturalness to his acting. His walk and voice set him apart from the other actors. John Wayne was another good western actor. He had a disticntive walk, but not the naturalness of Henry Fonda.

I know we moved on to westerns, but last night I watched "Sleuth" on AMC. What a good movie. Laurence Oliver and Michail Caine were the only two actors in the movie. But what a performance they gave. Before the movie started, the narrator exlained that Michal Caine--a novice actor at the time was in awe of olivier. But as the movie developed the narrator said "It didn't take long for the director and producers to realze there were TWO genius on the stage.

Sorry to interrupt...but a technical problem has arisen....

Are ALL of you seeing the listing of FAMOUS WESTERN FILMS FROM NOVELS

in the header above???

We have some folks who are still seeing the female detectives. If you're still seeing female detectives, please click on the REFRESH/RELOAD button on your browser and see if you see the FAMOUS WESTERN FILMS FROM NOVELS

Thanks...
Projection Lady jane

Yes, I saw Sleuth last night. It was wonderful. I knew right away the cop was Michael Caine, but couldn't figure out what happened until Lawrence Olivier explained it. And then I really thought Michael Caine had done what he said he had done. I didn't realize it had been a play for sure until this morning when I looked it up on the Internet Movie DataBase, but figured it was -- the way it was just set in a couple of places and only had a couple of characters.

It was very reminiscent of Deathtrap in that regard. And of course, Michael Caine was in that one, too.

OK. Back to movies. And to add to Projector Lady Jane's reminder, officially speaking, it is movie westerns that came from books, not just any old movie western (although I am guilty of starting us down that path by mentioning Angel and the Badman). Incidentally, Stephanie, try to watch that movie if you can rent it or something. You might change your mind about John Wayne. The other movie I mentioned, The Shepherd of the Hills is another non-traditional western you might like.

And did anyone ever see the movie of "Paint Your Wagon"--or maybe that wasn't first a book?

Dances with Wolves is my favorite Western from the list above. But there are lots of winners there... High Noon was super; Treasure of Sierra Madre; ho boy. How can anyone pick a favorite??!

Query: was The Sting a Western?

What about "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" - I think that was the first movie that I decided I liked John Wayne - and he played an older man in it too - probably wasn't a book though.

"Duel in the Sun", how could I forget Jennifer Jones scrabbling up the mountain to Gregory Peck (be still my heart) after shooting at each other. Wasn't he just a stinker in this one? I can't remember him playing any other bad guys.

Eileen

Eileen: I don't think "Sting" was a Western. Wasn't that movie about some Prohibition caper?

Texas Sonbird is right. Of all the movies listed above, I tried to make sure that they were either from a book or a TV program, like Lonesome Dove, but I'll admit I took a chance on "Cat Ballou." Still, that one was too funny to omit!

Lorrie

But HIGH NOON had Gary Cooper and Grace Kelly.

And won ALL the awards.

And was just THE outstanding classic Western of all time.

IMNSHO

Sorry, I was wrong. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was a screenplay by William Goldman. Though there have been books written about them the movie was from the screenplay.

Guess that doesn't count.

Phyll

Well, Phyll, I agree with you that it was a terrific yarn.

And the sex appeal from Butch and the Kid!

I still get ripples .........

(is this too racy for SeniorNet?)

MaryPage,

Ah, be still my heart. As for being too racy----well, we may be old but we're not dead!

Phyll

LORRIE..."The Sons of Katie Elder" was not a comedy, by any means, but I did smile warmly at a few scenes.

Gee, some of my favorite Westerns were not books at all, but golleeee...how 'bout "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" and "The Cheyenne Social Club", which starred both Henry Fonda and James Stewart? Terrific!

Love...Katie

Strangely enough, although most of these Westerns were novels or TV programs originally, I wonder how many of you actually made a point of reading the book first and then seeing the movie? I must admit that of them all, the only one I read first was "Riders of the Purple Sage," by Zane Grey.

I have another confession to make. When I was 8 years old, I sent a precious 25 cents away to get an autographed picture of Roy Rogers. I had that picture for years, along with others of Trigger, and Dale.Roy Rogers was definitely my hero!

Lorrie

I liked any movie that had the Sons of the Pioneers in it. I loved (love) their singing. Have a CD of them that I play when overwhelmed with nostalgia for that era.

Not everybody cared for it, but I think the most hilarious scenes in a movie were the ones depicting that drunken gun-slinger, Lee Marvin. Even his horse was cock-eyed! I never knew that Lee Marvin could do comedy, he always had such tough-guy roles, but he outid himself in this movie. And the background singing of Nat Cole and Stubby Kaye was a delight! I'm talking about "Cat Ballou," of course!

Lorrie

Lorrie,

That scene from Cat Ballou is a classic! Remember how the horse had his legs crossed and was leaning up against the fence? Obviously, just as pie-eyed as his owner. I still laugh when I think about it.

Phyll

I'm a little late. Any popcorn left? Cat Ballou was great.

For a few minutes I had Sleuth confused with Deathtrap with Michael Caine and Christopher Reeve. When I lived in St. Augustine, there was a Little Theater production of the play Deathtrap by Ira Levin. My son, Rob, played the role Michael Caine played, and I was Helga ten Dorp, the nosy psychic who lived next door.

It was May and hot when we did this production. I remember in one scene I wore a heavy wool sweater I had knitted. In the next scene, I wore a long-sleeved, slim, sheer black silk gown. I was so wet with sweat when that scene came up that the young woman who was helping me do a quick change behind the scenery on the stage had a terrible time getting it on me. What fun it was to do that play!

I'm fond of Paul Newman, but never liked Robert Redford. Is there something wrong with me? Don't answer!

Is True Grit considered a Western? I always liked that movie.

Mal

Lorrie, dear, the movie I posted was "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" not Sting. (: It was made in 1949 and starred John Wayne, Joanne Dru and John Agar.

I think the Robert Redford was yummy in "The Way We Were" and "The Great Gatsby", other than that, poof. Paul Newman's last movie, "Where the Money Is" came and went so fast, Joyce and I didn't get a chance to see it!

Eileen

As long as you have feeling for Paul Newman, Mal, there cannot be anything wrong with you!

You would probably like Redford if Newman were not so much yummier a choice.

Phyll: Yes, I still laugh when I think of that scene in Cat Ballou. And what was that goofy thing that Lee Marvin (in one of those roles) had on his nose?

Mal, of course there's still popcorn, and chocolates from Mary Page, yet! "True Grit is definitely a movie, and it was also a novel first, although in the synopsis of the movie, when they mention writer, they say "uncredited," whatever that means. That was one of those movies where you'd swear it was written exclusively for the actor in the lead, in this case, the pernnial favorite, John Wayne!

Lorrie

EILEEN...didn't you see "The Natural"? That's my favorite Redford movie. And it was from a novel by Bernard Malamud, altho not a Western. And how about "Three Days of the Condor" and "All the President's Men"? That's my guy you're "poofing"!

Love...Katie

Ahhh, Katie, someone else who liked "The Natural"! That was such a good movie! Of course, it was about my favorite subject, Baseball!! But it wasn't a Western, so back to that subject. But, neither was "Giant", as far as my Western movies idea goes. I liked "Cat Ballou" for all the same reasons above. Lee Marvin was a scream! And, of course, "The Cheyenne Social Club" which is a classic, to me!

I am still recovering from the new grandson arrival so haven't been in here very often. Just spent two hours trying to get caught up in my favorite discussions and also, popping the corn and making fudge for this one. How about a "Coca Cola" with that? Anyone? My favorite combo! Makes you feel better than you really do!

Ah, the generosity of all you movie fans! It will be a wonder if we can all stagger out of here with less than 20 pounds gained! haha Ella, you're excused---being a new grandma gives you leeway!

One time with my litle nieces and nephews we played a game of "Cowboys' Horses." Can you match up the name of the horse made famous by its famous rider? See how many you get right!

Roy Rogers...................................
Tom Mix.......................................
Hopalong Cassidy..............................
Gene Autry.....................................
Lone Ranger....................................

p.s. Ask any of your grandchildren! hahaha

Lorie

Well, the first was was Trigger and the last one was Silver.

You have no idea how close I came to saying Tonto. Had to catch myself!

Mary Page: Well, you got two out of five, not too bad. I almsot wrote Tonto, too. He was the Lone Ranger's Indian sidekick, wasn't he?

Hopalong Cassidy's horse...........................Topper
Tom Mix's horse....................................Tony
Gene autry's horse.................................Champion

Now, haven't you wondered how you've managed to get by all these years without this important information?

Lorrie

LORRIE...Oh, I'm sure at one time in my life I had that information and you probably can tell what I did with it. HAHAHA! Thanks for the research, tho. You're a good girl!

Love...Katie

Have any of you noticed that out of that list of Books/Movies, there are only two that deal with the subject of Native Americans in a sympathetic light. I'm probably missing some other ones, but at first glance, that's what I see. I'm talking about "Broken Arrow" with Jimmy Stewart, and of course, "Dances With Wolves." The story in "Broken Arrow" deals mainly with the efforts of one white man to bring peace to the Apaches, led by the legendary Cochise. I thought it was a very good movie, especially from the Indian point of view, with a heart-breaking ending. And of course, Dances With Wolves is almost a legend, by now, right?

Lorrie

Wasn't Tonto's horse named Scout?

Phyll

I think you've got it!

KATIE, sorry I dissed your favorite actor, I just thought Redford was at his handsomest in "The Way We Were" and "Gatsby" (:

Did I mention that everyone used to think my husband looked just like Roy Rogers when he was young? He did, too. One of his wise guy friends called me Trigger, grrr

ANN, thanks, I'd love a coke and some of that popcorn too, please? How's Noah?

Eileen

Just in case anybody is interested, Shane is going to be on TV tonight. AMC (American Movie Classics, I think) is showing it at 7 p.m. central time. Here's the description: AMC - SHANE **** (Western, 1953) -- An ex-gunfighter sides with Wyoming homesteaders against a ruthless cattle baron. Directed by George Stevens. Alan Ladd, Jean Arthur, Van Heflin, Brandon de Wilde (120 minutes) (Violence, Adult Situations)(TVG)

By the way, another good western (and yes, it did come from a book) is The Big Country with Gregory Peck, Jean Simmons, Burl Ives, and a host of others. I saw it fairly recently.

By the way, several commenters on the Internet Movie DataBase rank The Big Country as one of the best westerns ever. Some put it in the top 10, some rank it even higher. You can read the comments here: http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?51411

I'm late tonight because I was watching "Shane". Alan Ladd is will always be one of my favorites but I didn't give Van Heflin a fair shake in the "olden days". He was a great actor!

Jane S. Didn't you just love "Shane?" It's one of my favorites. The ultimate story of good versus evil, and I think that last scene with Ladd riding off and the little boy following, crying "Shane, Shane!" was a stunner.

Texas Songbird: How could I have missed "Far Country?" You're absolutley right, and I had forgotten all about that great movie. Mea culpa, mea culpa. And here it's been called an anti-western Western, with unusually good reviews. Thanks for the link.

Lorrie

Actually, Lorrie, it's The BIG Country. <GRIN>

After reading the synopsis and the comments, I think I maybe have never seen the movie from the beginning. I really liked the points in the comments that talked about the director and the way he kept painting the BIG country aspect -- taking long, broad shots, etc. I do remember that, especially in those last scenes of the final confrontation, etc. And wasn't Chuck Connors wonderfully weaselly?

Texas Songbird: Woops! Big Country it is! I think I must have had tee many martoonies when I wrote that post! I especially remember the scene where Peck rejects his fiancee, (good for him) and the quiet way he proved his bravado without resorting to theatrics. Chuck Conners was a perfect villain! I always thought he had a mean face.

Lorrie

We haven't said too much about "Treasure of the Sierra Madre." This was also from a fine book, and the movie was much better. Humphrey Bogart did some fine acting in this, but the old man Walter Huston stole the whole show. The little dance Huston did when they discovered gold is a classic, and the way greed changed them all is so symptomatic of men's frailties.Did anyone else enjoy this movie?

Lorrie

Okay, then, what about "The Magnificent Seven?" I was curious, because I knew this story was adapted from Akira Kirosawa's book. "Seven Samurai," I rented that Japanese movie, and I can tell you I wasn't a bit disappointed. The story line is the same, and the excitement gathers just like the American version, but of course they didn't have that magnificent background score!

Lorrie

Lorrie, are you the only one here for the last two days? Oh, poor thing! You don't have the benefit of all our many opinions of the movies that you have mentioned. Well, we must make up for that! You can give us two whiplashes with a wet noodle for that!

I didn't know that the Mag 7 was a Japanese story. I will be looking up that movie.

I did enjoy the Treasure of the Sierra Madre but since I was mere child when I saw it, I can't remember that much of it. I saw "My Darling Clementine" later in my life(as a rental) and truly enjoyed it. Of course, I loved Henry Fonda in all of his movies. How about "Who Shot Liberty Valence"? Was that a book? Very good movie!!

The floor is covered with popcorn and sticky fudge spots, so out with the mop here. Guess its time clean up! Where's my mop and bucket!

Okay, all you movie fans! It looks like we've just about had it with the Westerns, so we can now saddle up, put out the campfire, and ride slowly out into the fading Western sun, singing "Don't Fence Me In," all the way.

Do any of you readers remember the TV series "Masterpiece Theatre?" This will be our new listing here in Books Into Movies, and we'll be talking about some famous American and British authors whose books and plays made it to the screen, whether it be the big screen or TV. Do you have a favorite? Remember "Upstairs, Downstairs," some years back? Let's talk about it, the new heading will be changed shortly

Lorrie

Thank you, Ann, what a nice lady you are! It will be a day or two before I can get my new listing up, so we'll have a chance to clean house, the part you haven't already done! I'll steam-clean the carptet, Ginger's running around London and won't be able to, and I think our popcorn machine needs overhauling! Spring cleaning at this old Bijou theatre!

Lorrie

Lorrie, what a treasure trove you'll open up with Masterpiece Theatre. Of course I think everything I see on PBS is MT.

Upstairs Downstairs, as much as I loved it, I don't believe was a book. I think the actress who played "Rose" the maid, Jean something and someone else wrote the screenplay.

Eileen

Was it Jean Marsh??? That name just popped into my head from somewhere....

šjane›

Jane, I think the reason the name Jean Marsh popped into your head was that she received an Emmy Award when "Upstairs, Downstairs" first came out, for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series. Wasn't that a fascinating show? As far as I can tell, no, it wasn't a book first, and it looks as though each segment was written by different authors, but it was too popular a series to ignore in this discussion. Anyway, a book was written after the series was shown, sort of a reversal here!

Lorrie

Ahhhh...that's why the name popped into this brain.

Thanks!!

šjane›

The very best in TV viewing!! The Brits certainly know how to produce fascinating shows. About Jean Marsh : I believe she did help write Upstairs, Downstairs and maybe also came up with the original idea for the show. I gathered this from an interview with her years ago. She also wrote The House of Eliot which was a televised series, but I'm not positive it was on Masterpiece Theater. It was a good book and good adaptation in the series. This was about two sisters in the '20's, I believe. They made high-fashioned clothes, which developed into a very successful enterprise (The House of Eliot).

MEM...I remember that about Jean Marsh, too. "The House of Eliot" never grabbed me the way "Upstairs" did, tho. I was/am such a Pauline Collins fan, which is one reason I enjoyed it so much. She was the naughty upstairs maid who had the affair with James, and I can't think of her character's name to save me. Can I come back in awhile, when it flashes into my brain?

Love...Katie

Oh, Mem and Katie..THE HOUSE OF ELIOT ....I couldn't remember the name of it this morning when I wrote about Jean Marsh...I loved that series on PBS. I've never seen it repeated, but thought it was terrific.

šjane›

Katie, you're right House of Eliot was not nearly as good as Upstairs, Downstairs -- which was just the best ever! Was the maid's name, Daisy?? There have been reruns which I haven't watched --wrong time or forgot to watch, etc. I've also seen the videos for sale, but the price was a bit much! Maybe I should try a big video store for a rental.

I really enjoyed A Town Like Alice. "Hudson" (Gordon?) was in this but he wasn't nearly as sympathetic a character as Hudson in Upstairs... I remember the sense of "heat" when the heroine came to Alice-- it fairly leapt from the screen. I've never visited Australia but this film made me want to despite that sense of extreme, burning heat.

mem, Katy, and Jane: Upstairs, Downstairs was one of the biggest TV hits in all television history, and people still talk about the series: "It wasn't a huge budget that made this series great, immensely popular, much honored, and the biggest hit in PBS history. It was the fabulous writing and the rich characterizations presented to us every week. All these people we cared about, even negatively in the case of James."

Incidentally, Daisy's last name was Peel!!

Lorrie

A TOWN CALLED ALICE was also one of my all time favorites, and I liked "Hudson" in that role even better than in Upstairs, Downstairs because he was so obviously hopelessly in love with the heroine. Remember his bringing her her ice skates? Oh, how he looked at her.

And I liked HOUSE OF ELIOT better than Upstairs, Downstairs. I think because it was more upbeat about the role of women.

HOUSE OF ELIOT never appeared on PBS here in the Washington, D.C. viewing area. It was on Arts & Entertainment.

IMO, the Brits and the Scots do so much better a job of filming good stories than we do, for the most part, in this country.

A recent book into movie I was nuts about was MY LIFE SO FAR. I have already forgotten the name of the book, but the title of the book was changed for the movie. The name of the book appears at the end of the movie, along with notes as to what happened to various characters in the movie. The movie takes place on a vast Scottish estate, and at times the dialect is difficult to understand. But that is alright, because you always understand what is going on and the story is a hoot.

I loved the Six Wives of Henry VIII when I saw it years ago, and have long wished it could be on again.

MaryPage: A&E...it may have been on that here, too, instead of PBS...I don't know one channel from another!

šjane›

JANE and MARY PAGE...A&E usually runs shows that have first appeared on PBS, but I sure can't swear to anything about The House of Eliot. Did see it offered in a catalog I got today, tho. You can have 6 videos for $99.95. Think I'll pass.

Love...Katie

Doesn't A&E usually have commercials, as opposed to grants on PBS? Speaking of which, here's an interesting note:

"There is history in the use of brand names in TV program titles. But never before on commercial-free PBS. Until now. On Sunday, the venerable "Masterpiece Theatre" - home to such acclaimed TV productions as "The First Churchills," "I, Claudius," "Upstairs, Downstairs," "The Jewel in the Crown" and this year's "The Politician's Wife," the series that has aired dramas based on Charles Dickens, Henry James and Jane Austen - will become "Mobil Masterpiece Theatre."

On the eve of "Masterpiece Theatre's" 25th anniversary earlier this month, Henry Becton, president of WGBH-TV in Boston, the station that packages the British productions for presentation in the United States, said the title was being changed "to recognize Mobil's ongoing support to the program and to public television. Mobil's commitment is longer and at a level unparalleled in public television history."

"It's PBS' way of acknowledging the sole underwriter," said "Masterpiece Theatre" executive producer Rebecca Eaton. "They are the longest continuous sole underwriter" among public TV supporters."

How do you feel about corporate demands to be front-named in these productions? Do you think that this will tarnish the Crown Jewel of PBS, Masterpiece Theatre?

Lorrie

My 2¢ worth....We've had what I'd call "ads" following PBS productions for years...listed as "sponsors"...their names prominently displayed and oral recognition given to them. I suspect that if the corporations aren't given more "recognition," their advertising dollars will go where they are given more bang for the buck...and things like Masterpiece Theatre will disappear.

Corporate names are on everything...including sports areas these days...United Center; Quaalcom (sp?) on a stadium, etc.

šjane›

Well said, JANE, and I agree. We even have ads here on SeniorNet, and as long as they are relatively unobtrusive, I think I can stand to look at a company's logo for a few seconds. If they use up 20 minutes of the show, then I call it quits!

Love...Katie

The problem with letting the sponsors who donate large sums to PBS have "front and center" visually, is that they are now running rather long commercials on some of the shows, not just lising the names. I believe the most recent one is about a car. Disconcerting, to say the least! Especially, when they always begging us donate to PBS.

Lorrie, one of my favorites is not listed up at the top but maybe its not a MT series? Evelyn Waugh's "Brideshead Revisited"? It was outstanding! I have the whole things on tape as I was out of town when it was shown and my husband taped it for me. Where I was visiting at the time didn't have but two channels and PBS wasn't one of them.

In the above list, I have seen all but two and enjoyed most. I didn't particularly like The Duchess of Duke Street because the cockney accents made it hard to understand the actors. Along with the" Wives of Henry the VIII, they put on a special all about the making of the series and showed how the main character put on his makeup which was extensive. Very interesting! That same actor played Winston Churchill and also Edward VI, later on other shows on PBS.

Didn't the actor who played "Hudson" on "Upstairs, Downstairs" also play in "The Jewel in the Crown"? And, with Maggie ???, in "The Prime of Miss Jean Brody"? I have always liked him. He seems to choose such good roles for himself. The story in England about "The Jewel" was that when it was shown in Great Britain on Tuesday nights, all traffic ceased because everyone was home watching it. They were interesed in learning the history of the English occupation of India and then letting India have their independence.

Really enjoyed A Town Called Alice" with Bryan Brown. That was an Australian movie, I think, and Brown has become one Australian well known actors.

My husband was quite taken with "The Flame Trees of Thika". I would have to watch it again to remember it as we watched it 20 years ago and its out of my cache!

Jane, how true! In fact, "Masterpiece Theatre" is officially known now as "Mobil Masterpiece Theatre!" But I tend to agree with Katy--as long as they're kept unobtrusive, I can put up with commercial messages in order to be able to watch quality programming.

Ann Alden: My, you have watched a lot of MT! I'm so glad you mentioned "Brideshead Revisited." That was also one of my favorites, and I hated it if I had to miss a segment. That particular novel was my introduction to Evelyn Waugh, and when it was made into a movie I was delighted.

Now that you mention it, Australia is certainly not lagging when it comes to first-rate movies and TV. "A Town Called Alice," "Picnic at Hanging Rock," the one about the court-martial and execution of those three men during the Boer war,and of course "The Thorn Birds." Although that latter wasn't a Masterpiece Theatre production.

Just because you don't see the title in the listing above doesn't mean we should ignore any of the other productions put on by this group. There are far too many listings from past dramas alone to properly show in this discussion.

Lorrie

Flame Trees. Oh I love Elspeth Huxley.. That was one of several , she wrote about her early life in Africa.. I wanted to rush right off and live there myself.. The tv show was done really well... "The Common Reader" just arrived and I found the name of my all time favorite pbs show.. "The last Place on Earth". The book has been reissued by them. It is about Amundsen and Scott.. Was on on Sunday nights years and years ago and I dont think was Masterpiece Theatre, but I did love it.. I think it went on for 6 episodes, but am not sure.

Stephanie: It's good to hear from you. I'm afraid i missed "Flame Tree", but so many people have said they liked it! I think I saw that story about Amundsen and Scott, it was a great show to watch on a hot summer night!

Lorrie

Don't miss the helpful links we have for you up in the heading here, as we discuss this subject!

Lorrie

Here are some more comments about commercial sponsorship vs. public financing for Public Television:

"Some public television observers question whether "Masterpiece Theatre," a jewel in the crown of the noncommercial system with four Peabody Awards and 26 Emmys - or public broadcasting itself - will be tarnished by having the oil company' s name out front. There is also the question of whether this will open the door to other such changes: "General Motors' Civil War," perhaps, or "Southern California Edison's Puzzle Place"?

Ken Burns, PBS' renowned filmmaker of "The Civil War" and "Baseball," called the name change "a step in the wrong direction."

"Public television's future lies in distinguishing itself from the rest of the pack - not trying, chameleonlike, to become like everything else," he said from his home in Walpole, N.H. "The best news, the best history, the best children's, the best arts programming still is on public television. All we need to do is make our case. We don't need to put up a billboard."

Hear, hear!

Lorrie

I loved "Lillie" "Poldark" "Aristocrats" "Cider With Rosie" "Frenchman's Creek" "Rebecca" "The First Churchills" and all 4 of the "Prime Suspect" series

a complete listing of everything Masterpiece Theatre has ever done can be found at:

www.wgbh.org/wgbh/pages/masterpiecetheatre/pastprograms

PBS is putting more and longer "credits" before all their shows. The food shows, garden shows, home improvement shows etc. all have their "credits" listed at the beginning or ending. It doesn't bother me, it can't come anywhere close to the mind numbing load of commercials on regular TV.

Another MT offering was Poldark - a swashbuckler.

I remember the Charles Laughton movie as Henry VIII - way back when! Binnie Barnes, Elsa Lancaster there's more I know but can't remember all of them.

Eileen

Lorrie--

Like you, I deplore the horrible trend to name everything after a commercial enterprise. It used to be that we named things to honor a person etc., now it's just a sales pitch. I stopped contributing to public radio and TV when they began cutting back on the 'good' music, and showing things that could be seen elsewhere and dropping the things I enjoyed. That'll show them.

As for the name--when you think what a great job Alistair Cooke did for so many years, why not the Alistair Cooke Masterpiece Theatre?

In the meantime, why don't I get out my tapes of Up/Down, pour us all a glass of sherry and cut the seedcake I just finished baking. Not quite up to Mrs. Hudson's standard, I'm afraid. Can't you imagine her reaction to a cake mix?

One Masterpiece series I liked very well was "Piece Of Cake." It was the story of an English fighter squadron of Spitfire figter planes, of WW2. These were the planes and men that were credited with "saving" England.

It had a quite a bit of drama connected with it as well as "dog fights." The air combat flying scenes were spectacular and in themselves made the series well worth watching It centered on one pilot and one squadron in particular and all the misfortunes this fighter-pilot had and his long rehabilation period,following his flaming crash. After this crash he suffered extensive burns and received a long period of rehabilatation. After his rehab he had a tough time convincing his very senior R A F superiors that he could once again fly a Spitfire.

As Winston Churchill said: "...was so much owed to so few."

Bill H

Mary Page: Thanks for the link. It didn't work for me, but it might on other computers. There are a couple of hlpful links up in the heading here too that you might find useful.

Eileen: Every Thanksgiving, for years, when we ate our family turkey my brother and I would remember that scene in Henry VIII with Charles Laughton tearing a piece of fowl out with his teeth, and waving a ham-bone around! Who could forget?

Jeanlock: Seedcake and sherry! How delightful! Well, I must say we're getting up in the world, we seem to have graduated from buttered popcorn and Mary Page's Heath Bars!! I say, old chap!

Bill: No wonder I couldn't find that segment about the planes. I kept looking for "Spitfire", and here the title is Piece of Cake. I didn't see it, but it sure sounds exciting!

Lorrie

MaryPage: Your link also does not work for me, but it's to a part of the same site as the Masterpiece one in the header already. People can click on Past Programs at the website and get to that part of the website just fine. Sometimes websites won't let you skip past the opening page to get to subdirectories and additional pages, etc.

šjane›

Jeanlock: Speaking of Alistair Cooke, I found this to be of interest:

LONDON - "He is the Dorian Gray of journalism, looking today almost as he did 25 years ago, when he was 65 and first entitled to retire. But with Alistair Cooke, age is irrelevant, because it was always the voice, the delivery, the inflection and the mind that mattered, all of which are extraordinary and seemingly immune to age. For 52 years, he has sought out and often found the nuance of his adopted country, the United States. On Nov. 20, he turned 90 and that night delivered his 2,597th Letter From America, his signature radio dispatch for the British Broadcasting Corp. It is heard in more than 50 countries and is the longest-running radio show in the world.

Mr. Cooke is Walter Winchell, Walter Cronkite and Walter Mitty rolled into one. He revered H.L. Mencken, idolized Franklin Delano Roosevelt and wrote a biography of Douglas Fairbanks. Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall were among his best friends. Nonetheless, he is the world's best-known Englishman who isn't in a rock band. Most Americans know him as the man who sat in an armchair and introduced Masterpiece Theatre on PBS for 22 years.

But while he loves America, Mr. Cooke never sought American-style fame, and when he retired from his PBS gig, he simply continued doing what he began in 1946: his Letter From America. Cooke is a throwback, a journalist whose flawless delivery in the King's English made him and his program an institution here. Last month, BBC listeners voted him the best living speaker of the English language.

He has outlasted 11 U.S. presidents, 17 British prime ministers, 65 armchairs on the set of Masterpiece Theatre, and countless producers at the BBC who assumed he would go long before they did. While PBS dumped him for a younger man, the Brits would never dream of putting him out to pasture."

Lorrie

Oh, dear, LORRIE...did Alistair Cooke really get dumped by PBS? I thought he retired of his own volition. And Russell what's-his-name isn't all THAT much younger! I guess I punished them, since I haven't given money in a pledge drive in 10 years. Our PBS station is the absolute pits! I hardly ever watch it anymore. It is not located in Traverse City, where our tastes are 'way up the ladder from those in Mt.Pleasant, evidently. Hehehe!

Love...Katie

A very good example of how different sources of funding affect the programming of certain show, is the BRAVO Channel on cable TV. At one time, with grants and private funding, this was a wonderful, commercial-free source of quality plays and foreign filsms, but all that has changed now that they've gone commercial. A numbing series of crass commercials one right after another, and the types of programs are not as good. Moonlighting!! For Heaven's sake!

Lorrie

Lorrie,

Alistair got "dumped"!!! Outrageous! I too thought he retired, humpf.

Oh yes, that's just the picture that comes into my mind, Charles Laughton as Henry VIII, tossing the turkey, duck, goose?? leg over his shoulder. ha ha

Let's all give thanks for AMC, my husband watches all the old movies, commercial free, on this station. Of course, sometimes they have a run of "Tarzan" movies, but these can be fun too because they are so corny.

PBS drives me nuts with their pledge programs . . . it used to be once a year, now you never know when their going to have them. The regular shows are off and we're subjected to every kind of "feel good" guru they can find. One of them does make me laugh, she is local so I don't know if any other part of the country sees her, Loretta Larouche.

Eileen

Eileen: Loretta LaRouche? The name sounds familiar. Could she be any relation to the "Letty" LaRouche who was the madam of the local "house of ill-repute" in my home town? Naaaw! Can't be the same one!

Lorrie

And don't ask me how I knew Letty!

EILEEN...don't you get TCM and the Disney channel? They are both free here, and I like TCM better than AMC. More variety and they don't repeat the 8:00 at midnight!

I've just recently started to watch BRAVO, and it still shows some VERY different movies! Last night was "Playing in the Fields of the Lord", which was most unusual. You'd sure never see that anywhere else on the tube! And I have become a master at channel flipping and hardly ever see a commercial any more.

Love...Katie

Disney costs here. That, in fact, was what the whole Disney/Time Warner brohaha was about -- Disney wanted Time Warner Cable to run the Disney channel for free, without a premium charge, and Time Warner said Disney charged too much for it to make it free.

TCM is on the second level here, but is not a premium channel. Another one, on the third level in Austin, I think, is Encore. They run lots of movies, too.

Katie: As long as you're talking cable, did you ever try the Independent Film Channel? Talk about some wonderful movies, all commercial-free, too, but on the other hand they have their real garbage, too. Some of them are so far out I can't even see them, but if you pick and choose, you can find some real gems.

Lorrie

LORRIE...we have 50 some channels, but not the Independent Film one. I tried some of the Pay Channels for a month, and gave them up in a hurry. Very expensive for the dumb old movies they run, movies I wouldn't watch if they were free.

Love...Katie

Another good Masterpiece presentation was “Flambards.”. “Flambards” had a very catchy theme song--”Christina of Flamabards.” This was another good series about men and airplanes, both before and during World War 1. It was a sight to behold watching these vintage air crafts of the first world war in Ariel combat. These fighter planes --R A F DeHaviland Bombers, German Foker fighter planes and Americas fighter plane the “Spad.” Sometimes I wonder if these vintage fighter air craft were model planes --made real by special effects or were they very well preserved air craft of that era.

”Flambards” was the name of large English country estate, albeit in the first stages of decay There were many plots to the story and it did hold the viewers interest. I wish Masterpiece would bring back some of these old presentations.

I don’t watch Masterpiece very much any more. I, too, was turned of by their many pledge times and I was really bored by the amount of time used up by the “breaks.” The host would say. “Only two more minutes remaining in this break.” And then the break would go on for another half-hour.

Bill H

Lorrie--

Thanks so much for the info. I always wondered what became of him. Wasn't he also on the VERY Omnibus program that used to come on on Sunday afternoons? Altho Baker is OK, he just doesn't have the same flair.

JEANLOCK...have you ever read any of Russell Baker's (thanks!) books or columns? He has a very droll sense of humor and is quite witty at times. He said right off the bat that he wondered how his performance would come across...whether people would be expecting humorous introductions to the programs, when that wouldn't do most of the time. I like him very much, but he's no Alistair Cooke!

Have both of Baker's books, Jean, and can loan them to you while you are recovering from your surgery. GROWING UP and THE GOOD TIMES. Like Cooke and Baker equally well, but relate more to Baker. Am incensed to hear that Cooke was sacked.

Lorrie, no, I don't think she's your local "madam". (: In her talks she says things like "why not have a well day off, call your office and tell them you are not going to be in because you are taking a well day off".

Katie, I don't know what TCM is, not the Ted Turner network is it? We do get that and we do get Disney, but Disney has commercials. I'm pretty adept at changing channels to skip the commercials - sometimes I wind up watching 3 different shows - miss a lot of endings that way though.

Bill H, don't think I saw that one. Yes, those so-called minute breaks seem to last forever.

Eileen

EILEEN...TCM is Turner Classic Movies, not to be confused with TMC, The Movie Channel, which is a pay channel. Disney's commercials are for Disney things, tho, aren't they? Haven't paid that much attention. Commercial comes on, I click to elsewhere...where there also commercials, usually. Groan!

Love...Katie

Lorrie, I was pleased to see the info on Alistair -- he was tops. How about To Serve Them All My Days, about a schoolmaster -- I was so sad when the series ended. I wish they would rerun it! Also, I enjoyed The Barchester Chronicles so much, that I started reading Trollope. Another great one (another schoolmaster) was Goodbye, Mr. Chips. I wouldn"t have remembered these if I hadn't looked at the list on the clickable in the heading -- thanks for that.

Mem: Your range of favorites is far-reaching,isn't it? I seem to share the same likes of some of those wonderful programs.

All of you: I hope you're not going to tell me that any of you missed what I think is one of the finest productions that Masterpiece ever put on---I'm talking about "I, Claudius," and this story about the Roman Empire is about as good as it gets! I was mesmerized for weeks with this one, and I'll never forget John Hurt, a fine actor, as the evil Caligula. And that mother of his!!

Lorrie

Lorrie, I Claudius still haunts me. I think of it ever so often and still admire that Sir Derek Jacobi, whom I still think of as Brother Cadfael, for his incredible job of acting. This is a show that desperately needing repeating, because my grandchildren are in their twenties now and have NEVER seen it! And remember how Absolutely Evil poor sweet old Augustus's wife, was her name Lydia?, was?

I believe you can rent I, Claudius. I rented a video of a movie with a similar title, and I'm almost sure it starred Jacobi. (But I COULD be wrong!)

It's for sale for big bucks, but you get lots of video tapes. Most any video catalogue has "I, Claudius" listed. I have not seen the whole thing myself...shame on me!

Oh, Katie; it was truly wonderful! DO treat yourself sometime. Possibly they will not show it on the tv again since it is out in video.

Texas Songbird: Yes, it was Derek Jacobi, who was marvelous in that role, and I. too, still think of him in those brown robes as Brother Cadfael, solving all those monkish crimes.

It is said that Claudius himself was a stutterer. I don't remember Jacobi stuttering in his portrayal, but heck, that was 20 years ago or so, wasn't it? With all this talk about that program, I think I'll rent that tape, thanks Texas.

Mary Page: Sian Phillips played Livia, and very well, too. In some ways she made me think of Shakespeare's Lady MacBeth.

Katie: Lots of drama in this one!

Lorrie

I've been reading about Sir Derek Jacobi's career ever since "I, Claudius," and it's been a stream of successes. However, when he played the part of Francis Bacon in a film made in 1998, there was a storm of controversy. Jacobi was lauded for his acting, and received acclaim, but many Britishers didn't like the idea of profaning one of their historical icons, even though his private life had been well known.

The subject is a dismal episode in the private life of the painter Francis Bacon (who died in 1992), told with images of extreme sexual depravity and blood-stained violence.

Derek Jacobi DID stutter in the role of Claudius, and did so most convincingly. Ever since, I am always prepared for him to stutter. But, of course, Derek Jacobi does not stutter; Claudius did!

Katie, I do get the Turner Movie Channel but not the other one. My husband watches tv in one room and I'm in another room with my tv - good thing because we're both clickers!

The awful mother in I, Claudius, was played by Sian Phillips who once was married to Peter O'Toole. And Captain Picard (Patrick Stewart) also played a part in it, soldier? John Hurt is a favorite of mine too. I also remember a fine performances by Jay Robinson playing the evil Caligula in some epic movies.

Eileen

Readers, readers, my faith in you all is restored. I don't think anyone missed seeing at least part of I, Claudius. Movies about the Roman Empire have always fascinated me, especially after seeing so many epic stories of Nero supposedly fiddling while Rome burned. (He wasn't fiddling--he was playing the lute!) Did you ever have to read that awful book, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire," by Gibbons. One look at the size of that thing threw me off when it was assigned to us, once. I would much rather have read all the lives of the saints who were martyred in the Roman Amphitheatre during the days when they used to throw the Christians to the lions. Some of those stories were pretty graphic, indeed, along with the lurid pictures to go with. They fascinated us in parochial school.

Lorrie

Oh, Lorrie, my grandparents had a huge edition of "Lives of the Saints" in their glass bookcase which I perused on a regular basis. But, I did love "I,Claudius" with Jacobi. He was just superb! Didn't know that Patrick Stewart was in it but I bet I would spot him now since he is so popular. Talk about a looker and a way with dialogue! Whooooey! He's terrific!

I didn't see "Flambards" but always wondered about it so now I have to see if its in our library on video. Lots of PBS stuff is there.

Missed this one completely! Now, how could that have happened? I've been thinking about why I've liked books made into Masterpiece Theater pieces, and of course, one of the main reasons is they can do a much more complete job because of the time available in multiple parts. I think that's the reason a movie seldom does a book justice--there's just not enough time available.

Ann: I didn't know Patrick Stewart was in I, Claudius, either. Apparently he played the part of Sejanus, whoever that was. It must have been a small part, his name is way down on the list of credits.

Hi, mem: It's easy to miss any of these MT mini-series. And besides, this was way back in about 1976, almost as far back as the Roman Empire. Ha!

Lorrie

LORRIE...HAHAHAHA! That makes me really old!

Love...Katie

Me, too, Katie! Oh, to heck with ancient history, and age, too! Let's sit down and have some of that lovely seed cake and sherry, and talk about another one of these Masterpieces. I adore books about the British Colonial rule in India, and when they put on "Jewel in the Crown" I was mesmerized. They say that all traffic stopped over in London on the nights they showed this film, and I believe it. There was a young soldier in that picture named Charles Dance, and I've followed his career with interest. What a guy! Be still, my heart! He's not exactly smashingly handsome, but there's something about this man..................... And do you remember that nasty character played by Tim Piggot-Smith? Marvelous, marvelous show. Better by far than the book, I thought.

Lorrie

Don't forget that I, CLAUDIUS was first a book, and a very wonderful one at that. I think the author was Robert Graves. I know I read it eons ago and was thrilled and fascinated to see all of the gory details brought to the screen. In fact, I am pretty sure Graves wrote 2 great books, but cannot for the life of me remember the name of the other one. Help, anyone!

According to my favorite source (Internet Movie DataBase), the I, Claudius mini-series is based on two novels by Robert Graves (I, Claudius and >i>Claudius the God). Graves also wrote The Great War mini series (memoir Goodbye To All That) (uncredited) ... aka The Great War and the Shaping of the 20th Century.

Thanks, Songbird!

Speaking of books into movies, I've been reading SHRUB and shuddering. Poor you!

Mary Kay, I'm going to change the subject before we're surrounded by a million irate Bush followers here, probably led by Texas Songbird.

Did either of you read "The Raj?" That was the name of the series of books on which the wonderful mini-series "Jewel in the Crown" was based. zIn my estimation this was one of MT's finest. I had been remarking on Charles Dance, Rrrrruuuuuuuuuuuuuffffff! Did you see him as the Earl of Something in "White Mischief?"

Lorrie

Charles Dance was also in a fairly recent remake of "Rebecca". Was that a MT offering? He played Max DeWinter but I'll always see Laurence Olivier in that part.

Eileen

Lorrie, I'm sorry to be so long answering your post. I admit it. I kind of, sort of forgot to come back. I was in the romance section and got stuck in the heroes arms--not a bad place to be! I don't think I have a favorite prey book, I like them all. The news is John Sandford has a new one out--Easy Prey. Haven't read it yet but plan to when the library gets it. Did anyone see Sharpes Rifles? It was on Masterpiece in several episodes about three years ago. It was well done. I met the author and he said he had nothing to do with the movie. Wonder how often that's true? Marj

Katie Sturtz

No, I have not read any of R. Baker's books, but I see that MaryPage has kindly offered to lend them to me to read after my surgery. Thanks, MP.

Mem

I'm a devoted Trollope fan. Back when I was commuting, I listened to the complete set of Palliser novels on tape, as well as the Barchester novels. I also taped the Pallisers from the MT presentations. One Memorial Day I took the whole weekend to watch the Pallisers. The actors were so perfectly true to Trollope's descriptions. Have you ever come across any books by Angela Thirkell? She has written some novels (I think) about Barchester brought more up to date. They are amusing, too.

Hi, M: I must say, your excuse for not coming back sooner is a pretty good one. I don't think any of us could fault you there. You met the author of Sharpe's rifles? That is one program that Bill here mentioned that he liked. Are you there, Bill?

Eileen, yes, much as I like Charles Dance, I feel that nobody can play Max DeWinter like Olivier. But he role Dance played in "White Mischief" was almost made for him. What a cad he can be!

Lorrie

Jeanlock: Surgery? What surgery? When? Are you okay? Please let your fellow book/sharers know so we can all comiserate with you at the proper time.

After leading a discussion or two on this wonderful SeniorNet, a person gets the feeling that they know each poster pretty well, just from reading their comments and referrals. I feel that way about all you lovely people here who have been so faithful in clicking on. An English professor once told us, "if I could be left alone for just 20 minutes in a stranger's "library," I could tell you a great deal about that person simply from his choice of books." I think that could apply here. You readers have eclectic tastes, but you all know exactly what you like, and it's surprising how many of us seem to agree on opinions. Or is that simply politeness?

Lorrie

LORRIE...not at my age it isn't! I've earned the right to be contrary, and I probably won't come right out and tell you that I wouldn't read your favorite book for anything...the politeness you mentioned...but I sure won't hold back if I agree with you about something. As you may have surmised! Hehe!

Love...Katie

Katie, you made me laugh! A dear friend of mine here in our building had he 90th birthday about six months ago. She was one of the sweetest, most considerate people you could ever meet, and she would die before ever hurting your feelings. But for some reason, she decided when she hit 90 that all bets were off, and she could do and say what she pleased. It's actually hilarious. That sweet-faced, gentle little lady has turned into an incorrigible old lady who is fast losing any friends she's made through the years. I crack up when I hear her insult someone she has detested for years but was too polite to say so, and in a way it's refreshing to hear complete honesty in someone's speech these days. Yes, I haven't been left out--but I still love the old girl, and still see the good heart underneath. I don't agree, but some people feel that extreme age gives a person the right to be rude. At least no one can say they're hypocritical.

Lorrie

People must get tired of saying what others want to hear instead of speaking the truth. Makes life a pain in the ---------, doesn't it? How do they remember what they have said to each other? Oh well! My mother used to speak her mind more openly as she aged and sometimes it was frightening. But most of her friends loved her for it! Probably because she did it with a touch of humor most of the time. Back to books and movies!

Why do I know Angela Thirkel? Please someone, refresh my memory! I wish I could refresh my whole mind!

This seed cake is delicious! I believe I will have a cup of English Breakfast tea with mine!

Ann:
"The problem with being fond of nineteenth-century British novels is that you usually devour the canon before reaching your 21st birthday. No more Dickens, no more Trollope, no more Austen. What is the anglophiliac bibliophile to do? I had sustained several years of being doomed to re-reading these and other august writers for genteel comedies of manners with biting wit and characters I actually cared about, when a bookseller friend asked me if I'd ever heard of Angela Thirkell."..... Booklist Fiction review

Booklist Fiction Review

Lorrie

Angela Thirkell sounds like an author I would enjoy reading. Will have to check her out with my local sources.

LORRIE...your neighbor sounds like she's really getting her kicks! My mother-in-law used to tell the boyfriends of her granddaughters that they needed a haircut...this was in the Hippie Era...or that they looked just terrible with that beard! Her 8 kids used to remind her often that "age is no excuse for rudeness", but it didn't slow her down for long. She mellowed a bit by the time she was 93.

Love...Katie

Thanks Jeanlock and Lorrie: Angela Thirkell sounds like somebody I'll like. I'll definitely keep an eye out for her. Jeanlock, certainly hope all goes well with your medical problems. Please keep us posted.

An aunt, long deceased, introduced me to Angela Thirkell back in the sixties. I managed to read every book she ever wrote, buying some hard to find ones in second hand book stores when I was in England in 1971. She is really, really great. I recommended her to someone here last month. Cannot remember who, but she is supposed to get back with me and let me know how she liked the 3 authors whose names I gave her. Thirkell writes English Village romances, basically. But does it with great talent and intelligence. These are not your pulp fiction novels. She really is, as they call her in England, the successor to Trollope.

Before I forget it, for all those who like Mystery Theatre as well as Masterpiece Theatre, tomorrow night they're showing a film all about how A. Conan Doyle got started. I'm a fan of Sherlock Holmes stories, and don't want to miss that. Thursday night, Public Television, around 9 o'clock Central time.

Sorry to interrupt, let's all settle back and have some more seed cake and shery, or Earl Grey tea! It's delicious!

Lorrie

Earl Grey is my tea of choice as well, Lorrie. Lapsang Souchong a close second.

Earl Grey is my favorite, too, but I also like both English and Irish Breakfast teas. Not quite as smokey tasting as EG. Just don't offer me Constant Comment when a want a cuppa! I don't ever drink coffee and TEA is what I want...not a spicy substitute for coffee. Now off my indignant soapbox.

Did anyone bring scones and clotted cream?

Love...Katie

Well, I may not be a tea drinker, I swill coffee down like water, but i must admit that the subject of tea seems pretty appropriate during this discussion. I think I'll join you for a taste of the scones, at least!

Lorie

Here's a sort of a litle trivia quiz about Masterpiece Theatre. Let's see how well you do!!

Trivia Quiz

How many of Charles Dickens' novels have been adapted for ExxonMobil Masterpiece Theatre?
3
6
9

Which ExxonMobil Masterpiece Theatre series is based on the life and loves of novelist Vita Sackveille- West?
Sunset Song
Lillie
Portrait of a Marriage

Sean Bean, who protrays the honorable romantic hero in the Sharpe series (and plays the dishonorable rake in Clarisa), is perhaps best known to American audiences as the villain of what popular action film?
Die Hard
True Lies
Patriot Games

In I, Claudius, whom does Livia not kill?
her husband
her son
her grandson

What is the "UXB" in Danger UXB?
unexploded bomb
a Russian spy
radioactive fallout

What is Middlemarch?
an estate
an aristocratic family
a town in northern England

Which non-royal British family is the subject of two ExxonMobil Masterpiece Theatre series?
The Rothchilds
The Bellamys
The Churchills

Who plays the title role in The Mayor of Casterbridge?
Alan Bates
Jeremy Irons
Richard Harris

Which ExxonMobil Masterpiece Theatre heroine is not portrayed by Susan Hampshire?
Becky Sharpe
Elizabeth Bennet
Sarah Churchill

In Upstairs, Downstairs, what is Mr. Hudson's first name?
Charles
Ernest
Angus

Well, Lorrie, that was a very helpful site. I also looked up Angela Thirkell on Bibliofind and found many titles at all prices from $2 to $55. But first, I will try my library to sample Ms Thirkell.

Trivia? Trivia? Knowing those answers are of special importance. Makes one think she or he is getting ahead of the game.

My English Breakfast tea is cooling and my orange scone and clotted cream is awaiting, so will sign off for now.

The only one I can answer with confidence is Sean Bean was the villain in Patriot Games. And a fine one he was. But I liked him better in Sharpe's Rifles! I'll guess Middlemarch is a town?? I've really enjoyed Jane Austen's books into movies. I don't remember Pride and Prejudice being that good in book form. Maybe it's the talent of the performers. Hello to Gahanna Ann from a former Ohioan. Marj

Lorrie, good questions, now if I only had a good memory . . .

I did look up a few:

#6. Middlemarch is a town. (George Eliot)

#7. I'm guessing the Churchills.

#8. Mayor of Casterbridge was Alan Bates.

#9. Another guess, Susan Hampshire did not play Sarah Churchill? She is currently in a show on PBS and darling she looks maarvelous.

10. Upstairs, downstairs - Angus Hudson.

Re the tea talk, my grandmother always had me buy orange pekoe tea - there was a pot of tea on the stove all day long at her house. "Tea 'n toast" was the proverbial cure all for whatever ailed you.

Eileen

Have any of A. Thirkell's books been made into movies? I did know that Hudson's name was Angus. I don't think S. Hampshire played Eliz. Bennett. I do remember that Greer Garson played her in the old movie, but not sure about MPT. The rest of the quiz was thought provoking but alas, no answers!

My memory tells me that at least one of the Thirkell books was made into a movie. It was one of the earlier ones, the one with the twin babies in it. That is about as far as my memory goes.

Boy, is this embarrassing! You'll never get through teasing me about this! When I posted those trivia questions, I copied and pasted them, along with the answers, into a file in my word processor. However, a few days ago my computer crashed, and i can't find the file!

So I don't know the answerw to the questions----hahaha Your guess is as good as mine. I'm so sorry, readers! I get ten lashes with a wet noodle on that!

Lorrie

Well, I'll bet you thought you had me there, didn't you? Well, Ann, and M, and Eileen, and Mary Page, I found the answers! And here they are: see how well you did! ANSWERS

1..Six Charles Dickens' novels have been adapted for Masterpiece Theatre.
2..Portrait of a Marriage is based on the life and loves of novelist Vita Sackveille-West
3..Sean Bean, who protrays the honorable romantic hero in the Sharpe series (and plays the dishonorable rake in Clarisa), played the villian in Patriot Games
4..In I, Claudius, Livia did not kill her son.
5.."UXB" in Danger UXB stands for "unexploded bomb.
6..Middlemarch is a town in northern England.
7..The Churchills is the non-royal British family featured in two Masterpiece Theatre series.
8..Alan Bates plays the title role in The Mayor of Casterbridge.
9..Susan Hampshire did not portray Elizabeth Bennet.
10..Mr. Hudson's first name is Angus

Lorrie

Shoot, Lorrie.

I thought it was funnier when you gave us an exam and then didn't have the answers!

I mean, that was one for the book!

Now why did you go and find them?

We would have had SUCH a marvelous way to tease you ad infinitum.

Well, I had to save face somehow, didn't I? That was too good an opportunity for you clever gals to miss!

Okay, now can you all stop slurpping tea and nibbling scones for a minute? I have been informed that I'm about to get house-guests for a long weekend, so if you don't seem me posted here you'll know I haven't fizzled out somewhere in cyberspace. You all behave yourselves----just think of how you can talk about me now behind my back. See you Monday.

Lorrie

Well, gee whiz, four out of ten ain't bad, is it?

Eileen

LORRIE...enjoy your weekend! We'll miss you...

EILEEN...it's sure better than I did!

On the subject of movies, but not Masterpiece Theater, has anyone been watching the ones on BRAVO? In the past few days I've seen "Six Degrees of Separation" with the gifted Stockard Channing and the wonderful Will Smith, and "My Father's Glory", an absolutely delightful little French film, with subtitles. I was really smitten with that one.

Katie, I think Stockard Channing is great as well. Hope they never replace her as the President's wife on The West Wing. I read that she is too busy to give the show her full time attention. Most of her work is on the stage and we just do not get enough of her on the Silver Screen.

Do you have the same trouble I do in remembering her name? I keep having to refer to: "You know, that gal that played in Six Degrees of Separation. Remember, she was Rizzo in Grease?" Usually everyone says "Oh, Yeah", but then cannot remember her name either.

I have tried association, and the best I can do is Stockyard, Chicago. That usually gives my brain: Stockard, but still have trouble with the Channing. Any suggestions.

( new brain doesn't count )

Well, shucks, MARY PAGE...a new brain is what I was going to suggest! ;0)

My problem with Stockard Channing is I know I'm trying to think of an unusual name and can come up with Blyth Danner and Swoozie Kurtz, but it takes awhile until Stockard (her maiden last name) Channing (her ex-husband's last name, which she kept) pops into my head. Do you remember years ago when she had a sit-com that lasted barely one season, about newly-weds. It was cute, and I was sorry to see it go.

I do not remember that, Katie.

Have no problem remembering Blyth Danner, but have a terrible time remembering Swoozie's name as well: "That red head who is such a great actress and has such a Weird name!"

Well, you have helped by telling me stuff about Stockard Channing's name. 'Haps those tidbits will help make it more indelibly inked into my register.

Merci!

Hi, everybody! It's so nice to see that you all were perfect little ladies while i was gone.Ane the viewing room here is immaculate! Someone's been busy cleaning up. Wonderful.

On the subject of name associaion: we had a very nice cleaning lady named Mrs. Erickson, whose name I could never remember. She used to talk about the country she came from (Sweden) often, and so mentally I tried to connect "Sweden" and "Erickson," but the next time I greeted her I called her Mrs. Sweden!

Lorrie

Lorrie, that's a good one. We used to get our wood from a gentleman I used to call Mr. Woodman until I found out that wasn't his real last name - I felt like an idiot!

Eileen

I just saw The Music Man, which is on my list of three favorite musicals (I can't decide on just ONE favorite!). I go through the same process as ya'll have been describing everytime I try to remember the guy who wrote it. I always remember Meredith, but then I think Burgess Meredith and then I think, no, that's not right, and I put my thinking cap on again and I finally come up with Meredith Willson. I go through this process EVERY SINGLE TIME! Incidentally, Meredith Willson (and yes, there are two L's!) also wrote one of the other musicals on my top 3 list (The Unsinkable Molly Brown; the other one on the list is Guys and Dolls, just in case anyone is wondering.)

Oh, yes, the "Music Man" is one of the best musicals. I also love "Oklahoma" and "Guys and Dolls". And, "South Pacific" and "Les Miserables" and, and, and!!! There are so many good musicals out there.

And, speaking of remembering names, what about Faye Bainter? Does anyone remember her besides me? I asked several OP's around here but no one knew who she was. She played everyone's middle-aged aunt in all the old black and white movies back in the '30's and '40's. Her name just stuck in my mind for years.

And, on Bravo, Katie, I watched a strange one last night titled "Picnic at Hanging Rock", an Australian film made in '75. Very peculiar movie! Sorry that I missed "Six Degrees of Separation". Had heard such good things about it,too. I like Stockard Channing and Wil Smith a lot.

I am down to describing words for remembering things. Its the pits!

Ann A,

I'm afraid I am old enough to remember Fay Bainter.

One of her best and most famous movies was "Jezebel" with Bette Davis. Also, "The Virginian" and a bunch of others. She was never a leading lady that I know of but one of those great character actresses that were supporting actors in many, many well-known movies.

Phyll

Eileen: That was cute! Shows how dangerous it can be sometimes wih "word association!"

Ann and Phyll: I remember Fay Bainter well. A wonderful actress, and yes, I loved her in "Jezebel! Have you noticed that there aren't very many memorable character actore as there used to be? There were so many in those days that their names were instantly recognizable, and each one had a unique personality.

Ann: I'm so glad you mentioned that movie "Hanging Rock" on Bravo. I saw it too, and I've been too embarrassed to mention that I didn't get it at all. Makes me feel sort of stupid, but I couldn't make any sense of it. It was a very well done Australian movie (that head-mistress was exceptional) but I'm afraid the point escaped me.

Lorrie

Texas Songbird: They say great minds run in the same channel, and you must have been reading mine. I had planned, starting next week, to start a new category here all about famous movie musicals. What do you guys think? There aren't a lot of them that were made from books, but many were made from stage dramas, and they count. Now don't jump the gun here, save your comments until we post the list.

Lorrie

Am I prescient or what! I watched about 5 min. of "Hanging Rock" and decided it wasn't for me. Glad I saved myself some time. When "My Father's Glory" comes back...and on BRAVO, everything comes back...do catch it. I'll try to post ahead of time if I see it listed. I'll watch it again, for sure!

ANN...I certainly do remember Fay Bainter! Character actors are the greatest, and mostly unsung, sorry to say!

LORRIE...can hardly wait till next week! Boy, do I love musicals!

Love...Katie

I remember Fay Bainter as well.

Mildred Natwick was another great character actress.

As for Picnic at Hanging Rock, whew! Quel relief! I thought maybe there was something important I missed, because it just seemed to END. I gather the girls never appeared again? What think you? Did the narrator ever SAY SO?

Ann, I remember Fay Bainter too! She was in the musical "State Fair" with Jeanne Crain and Dana Andrews.

Several ladies come to mind along with Fay, Billie Burke, who was married to Florenz Zeigfield, is one. She was the good witch Glinda in "Wizard of Oz", another musical. There's another lady that's at the edge of my mind. Sort of a cross between Fay and Billie, not as serious as Fay and not as silly as Billie. She had a TV show years ago something with "bride" in the title. Oh well, it'll come to me.

Lorrie, sounds like a lot of fun, talking up the musicals.

Eileen

Eileen, I think the lady you're thinking about was a sort of sweet-faced woman who sometimes played the role of a vague, sort of forgetful character? Not Vera Vague. I know whom you mean, but i can't think of her name offhand. Yikes, that bothers me! I'll probably think of

SPRING BYINGTON!!! I just remembered. Hallelujah!

Lorrie

Hahaha I was going to call her Autumn Somebody!

Do you ever see movie stars and wonder why in the world 2 of them have not been paired off as family members in a movie?

I find myself doing this constantly.

And Billie Burke and Spring Byington would have been Perfect sisters. One all burbly and girlish and daft and the other sweet and motherly and daft.

Actually, I'll bet they both were smart as whips!

(hmmm ... whips smart, but Are they smart?)

Did any of you see this past three-parter of Masterpiece Theatre? Monsignor Reynard, I think. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised to see our old friend, John Thaw (Inspector Morse) in the lead. He looked pretty good with that much shorter haircut. At first I couldn't quite picture him as a priest, but he seemed to handle it quite well.

Lorrie

Lorrie -- I LOVE the idea. I've presented it somewhere else, but I'll give my list of favorite musicals (WHEN we get to that point!)

LORRIE...much as I love John Thaw, I just couldn't get into that play. Maybe I had too many other things on my mind, but the story didn't grab me as I thought it would.

Shucks!

Love...Katie

I watched it. It was bleak and slow moving, but a quite accurate picture of those days in that place.

The acting was most excellent. It was much, much more like real life than most stories, which are fiction. It was most definitely not entertainment.

In addition to John Thaw being a realistic priest, the lad who plays in Hetty Wainwright mysteries (as her fellow detective) played the French boy who was a typical smart ass youth and wound up getting shot to death by a German firing squad. This young man is an outstanding actor as well.

Yes, I saw the John Thaw series and recognized the French boy also. He's coming along, isn't he? The series was better than anything else that night and there was no baseball game so we watched it. Glad to hear that no one else liked Hanging Rock. Yes, they did announce that the girls and their teacher were never found. Maybe a dingo pack got them all!!! Did you ever see the movie with Meryl Streep where she played the mother whose baby was stolen by a dingo? And no one believed her? Good movie, better than Hanging Rock, believe me!

I am a musical fan too and would enjoy the discussion of them. I grew up going to them at our outdoor theatre, the local civic theatre, and the athenaeum in Indianapolis. My first was, "Bittersweet", an operetta by Franz Lehar or another writer? Can't remember just now!

Mildred Natwick was one of my favorite actresses. Loved her in "Barefoot in the Park" and will never forget her lines after she climbed the four flights of stairs to her daughter's apartment. " I didn't know it was so far up here, and if I did, and the hardware store downstairs had been open, I would have bought a gun and shot myself!" And she was so great with the Frenchman, Charles Boyer. The UZO scene when she couldn't open or close her fingers. Hahahahaha!

I just finished reading the strangest book. It's called "The Wide Sargasso Sea," by Jean Fhys. The reason I'm mentioning it here is because it's the story of Rochester's wife, (remember the madwoman in the tower in the book Jane Eyre, which has been presented on Masterpiece Theatre, I think) Anyway, it's a story of what the young bride was like when she met Rochester, and how he slowly but relentlessly drove her to madness, there in the lush Carribean atmosphere where he met her and brought her to England. It's an interesting read, but I don't think I would ever buy the book.(I picked it up at the library) I was curious, of course, but to me it seemed a little disjointed, something like the heroine in the book. Has anyone else read it?

Lorrie

Lorrie, no I haven't read it but it reminded me of a book I read recently which was supposed to be a sequel to "Rebecca" - it was dreadful and the writer should get 30 lashes with a wet noodle.

Thanks for remembering Spring Byington's name - it would have driven my crazy trying to remember!

The first musical I saw was the operetta "The Student Prince", I was about 14 at the time and was disappointed the Prince didn't marry the waitress - ah, youth!

I saw drips and drabs of the John Thaw, although he is, as always, excellent, it just didn't grab my attention.

Mary Page, what a clever idea - pairing up actors and actresses - I'll have to think about that one - Ned Sparks and Buster Keaton???

Eileen

We had outdoor musical performances in a lovely park ampitheater, but the first one I ever went to, that I remember, was in a huge indoor auditorium. It was a recital by Rosa Ponsell! Beat that, music lovers!!! This was in Toledo, in the 30s, and I can't tell you the year or what she sang, but I was impressed!

Many, many years back, when I was very young, (yes, even I was young once) there was a program that came on every Monday (I think)evening after supper,(that's what we called dinner then)called "The Firestone Hour," and I can still hum the lovely theme song they had, which I read somewhere had been written by Mrs. Firestone, the sponsor's wife. Anyway, it was a lovely program, with a full orchestra and talented guests. One I can remember was Rosa Ponselle, others were Lily Pons, Patrice Muncelle, Richard Tucker, and Yehudi Menhuin. Oh, the talent on that program! I'm afraid it's a little before your time, all you young whippersnappers!

Lorrie

Lorrie--

I thought that MaryPage had posted a message here awhile back about my 'surgery'. I'm having rotator cuff repair done on June 13. It's the second time I've had that done on the same shoulder and the doctor says that the best possible outcome will be if I have 80% of normal range of motion. What is so frustrating is that I went to the doctor last fall because I was having pain in that arm. He had my record which showed that I had had the surgery in 1994 but apparently overlooked that. He sent me off to physical therapy which I went to off and on for about 3 months. Then I got sick with some other problems and had to quit the therapy. Once the other problems cleared up (almost--I'm still getting tested for some of them), the arm was in pretty bad shape and it was only in Feb. that he thought to do the x-ray and MRI which showed the deterioration in the shoulder. The therapy I was taking was exactly the WRONG thing for the actual problem I had and probably made it worse. I asked him the last time I saw him how come when the record plainly showed I'd had previous surgery for that arm he didn't think of that before sending me for the wrong therapy. His response, "I guess I just missed it." Great!!!!!

I'm 74, and have never had any of the typical problems associated with being 'elderly'--that is, heart, etc.---I just get these darn other things. I'm not used to being out of health, and find that being on the sick list for most of the time since October is depressing. Anyway, maybe we'll finally get to the bottom of things and I can begin to think of feeling better.

It's much more fun to talk about books and things. But thanks for asking.

Lorrie--

And did you notice that the young man who was executed in the last episode was none other than the person who plays Jeremy in the Hetty Wainthorp series? I thought he did a good job, but it seemed to be pretty much the sort of person he plays on Hetty. And, I couldn't be sure (when the credits roll by they are too small for me to read--even when I've taped it and can stop the frame), but I thought that the sort of reddish haired woman looked a lot like Alex Kingston who plays on ER, and she certainly sounded like her.

I thought Thaw was completely believable in that part. I wasn't sure I could erase the 'Morse' figure from my mind but found that I didn't even think of it. And then there was that other thing he was in recently where he took over the upbringing of a young boy--again, there was no 'Morse' there, either. Guess he's just a good actor.

And speaking of actors, have we had a memoriam for John Gielgud? I'm planning to get out my tapes of Brideshead and watch them as a memorial. I shall miss him. There was a fine obit article (as opposed to an obit, itself) in the Post yesterday and mentioned the play "Home" by David Storey in which he played with Ralph Richardson. I saw that in New York and I am here to say it was a truly magical theater moment when at the end of the play just Gielgud and Richardson were standing there looking out at the audience. I literally had goose bumps. And talked my husband into taking me again the next week to see if the spell would hold a second time, and it did. But, I digress----

Lorrie--

Yes, I 'read' that book by listening to the Books on Tape version. It was interesting, but I didn't think it really had the same 'flavor' as the other.

Lorrie--

Wasn't that the program that had Jessica Dragonnette (sp?), too? My dad used to listen to any and all 'good' music programs. There was the Carnation Contented Hour, Radio City Music Hall (Sunday, at 12:30 pm)--there was a song that used to be sung back then called, "The Greeneyed Dragon with the 13 Tails" usually sung by a man, and Dad used to come upstairs and wake us up so we could come to the top of the stairs and hear it. Did anyone else ever hear that song?

WELL!!! I must say, Jeanlock, when you post, YOU POST! No, I didn't know about your physical problems, and I'm so glad you let us know. What a bummer! Couldn't you just murder some of these doctors? I know what you mean---having been relatively healthy for that age for so long it's doubly frustrating to get on the sick list. What's the prognosis on the shoulder? Will it improve more now with time? I hope it won't interfere with your ability to work your computer--if you're like me, it's a great lifeline to others.

I'm glad your read Wide Sargossa Sea, then you can understand why I couldn't get too enthused about it. And I liked Morse in Monsignor Reynard, too. Like you, after I quit thinking of him as inspector, he came across very well as a priest.

I was saddened by the death of John Gielgud. That must have been a magic moment when you saw the two drama giants side by side. I will always remember the role Gielgud played once, as a fairly inept kind of teacher whose wife betrays him with another man, can't think of the name of it, something like "The Browning Version" maybe? Anyway, I was so moved I wept.

Yes, Jessica Dragonette, those were the "quality" programs then, and really they gave many people an opportunity to become acquainted with good music---people who couldn't afford concert tickets or even phonographs then. Because that Firestone program had guest artists from the Metropolitan Opera who sang popular arias, I learned about opera, and gained a lifetime love.

I truly hope you'll be cooking on all burners now, and will look for you here. Next week we're going to start talking about "Musicals", bothe Broadway and Hollywood, in fact it might be sooner, I'm working on the listing now, so stay with us. God bless.

Lorrie

Lorrie--

I never saw Gielgud in that play, but there is a British movie of it that is absolutely wonderful. I've watched it many times. It is one of the very best movies I've ever seen.

As for 'posting', I've not been around much for awhile, so it's all built up.

Jean, I am So relieved to hear from you again. Have been worrying about you.

Lorrie, this old crone remembers the Firestone very well, but wasn't it Firestone Theatre, or am I mixing, as I often do, it up with something else? Anyway, Lily Pons was a Great favorite of mine.

Jean, I never heard "The Greeneyed Dragon With the Thirteen Tails". Do you remember the words? Sounds like great fun.

MaryPage--

That's all I remember. Maybe I'll try GOOGLE search and see what they turn up.

I've been very busy getting the place ready for my brother and his wife next week; and we're having a family cookout at Janet's. And having tests, etc. for pre-op stuff.

I think the music program was Hour rater than theatre, but I could be wrong. Of course, the last time I thought I was wrong, I was wrong.

You think maybe you've got problems? Consider this. I opened my big yap again this year and volunteered to do the picnic for the building, which means I have to do allmost 100 lbs. of potato salad! When will I ever learn!!

Lorrie

Probably not.

I (superior tone here) however, have finally adopted NO as my favorite word.

Lorrie, remember when you are in charge of anything, to DELAGATE, DELAGATE DELAGATE!!!!I don't remember the Firestone Hour but I do remember some of the performers. I loved Lily Pons and Richard Tucker.
I also saw, along with Bittersweet, the Student Prince and The Merry Widow at the outdoor amphitheatre in Indy. All, in one summer! And, then, I was hooked!

Jean, we will keep you in our good thoughts when the surgery happens. Boy, couldn't you take some of these doctors and shake them? The answer here is to take someone else with you as an advocate because although we are in charge, we are not feeling well, and someone else needs to ask all those necessary questions and know our history before we get to the doctor. Life is a beach, and then you die! A direct quote from "Hill Street Blues". Ain't it the truf?!!!

Mary Page, and Ann: Yes, I'm really lucky in one respect. As soon as I volunteered for the job, it wasn't long before the phone was ringing with offers to help. Also, Jean here gave me a tip. So it won't be too bad. To tell the truth, because I don't have any family nearby, except for a brother over in Wisconsin, and holidays are usually pretty lonely here. Most of my neighbors are busy with their children and grandchildren, and the picnic is for those of us who will be staying home alone. There were many days like that for me before I discovered SeniorNet. Speaking of operettas, it was my mother's love for Rudolph Friml, Sigmund Romberg, and other composers that led me to appreciate that kind of music. I'm having another memory thing--who was that composer who wrote so many lovely operettas? It's right on the tip of my tongue..................Mary Marin was in a movie about him once. Dh, drat it!

Lorrie

LORRIE...Victor Herbert, maybe? I think Romberg and Friml did the bulk of them, didn't they? Such lovely songs from all of them!

"Almost 100 lbs of potato salad" for only the people who are not going anywhere? Wow! There must be quite a contingent staying home. How many are in your complex? We have only 22 condos here, and that much po salad would feed us all for a week! Can you see the TV from the kitchen? You could watch a video while you are peeling spuds, you know. Sing along with Jeannette and Nelson!

Not envious...Katie

Katie: If i burst into song while peeling potatoes I'd wind up eating the whole batch of potato salad alone! There are 165 apartments in my building, but in the area there are five different buildings spaced intermittently here and there. Some of them are for "assisted living" residents, some are for families, and others are just for more active seniors. I made it sound a lot worse than it really is, I've got a whole committee to work with. Anyway, I don't really mind.

Victor herbert!! Now why couldn't i remember that name. Wonderful music---my mother loved his music and said that any of his productions were very popular in her time.

Okay, I'm finishing up the list for "Musicals' and will put it up shortly. I think we should start with any and all of Rodgers and Hammerstein's music. If there's anyone out there lurking who says they've never heard any of R & H's music, I'll eat my hat!

Lorrie

All Right!! Would you believe that this is only part of a list? I think this just show how popular musicals are everywhere, don't you agree? Okay, let's all tidy up our viewing room, plump up the sofa pillows, I'll run the vac, and this time I made some tiny petit fours to gobble up along with the popcorn and Mary Page's chocolaes.

Let's talk about the musical theatre! Many of these shows were actually adapted from books, but I've taken liberties in that respect with the others. The first one that comes to mind, to me, anyway, is "The King and I." Taken from her book "Anna and the King of Siam" by Anna Leonowens. I still love to watch that movie!

Lorrie

High Society is a musical remake of The Philadelphia Story, which was a non-musical play on Broadway. And, I might add, the High Society movie is an almost word-for-word version of the play (except for a little updating and for working in the Newport Jazz Festival so Louis Armstrong and Bing Crosby could do what they did in the movie).

LORRIE, LORRIE, LORRIE!...You forgot the Queen of them all!!!

MY FAIR LADY!!!

How could you??? And where is one of my favorites, "1776"??? Both of these started on Broadway and then became wonderful movies, as did some of the others on the list.

All teasing aside, that is one great master list, Lorrie. My hat is off to you!

Love...Katie

Lorrie,

That is a prodigious list!!! Did Rogers and Hammerstein really write all of those---what a team!

Speaking of teams----when we get to Lerner and Lowe, don't forget my favorite of all time----CAMELOT. I saw it on Broadway and I loved it----much better than the movie. However, Robert Goulet was such a disappointment. He apparently didn't feel like acting the day I saw the play---he merely showed up and walked through his part. Very, very poor performance. I think the entire audience was ready to boo him.

But, I remember we are talking about Rogers and Hammerstein. I just saw the road show revival of Chicago in Raleigh last year. I also loved it but some of the people around us objected to the "bad" language and left during intermission. Their loss, I think. I went around singing "All That Jazz" for days afterward!

Phyll

Katie: Mea Culpa, mea culpa! I knew there was a big one somewhere I was missing. Ah, well, at least you mentioned My Fair Lady!

Phyll: You jest, of course! There was no way i could list all of R&H's big hits singly, so I just put up the one title. I didn't see Camelot, but i did drag my husband to a concert in Chicago to see Robert Goulet, who was awful, then, too. His wife Carol Lawrence was supposed to be onstage with him, but she cancelled out, and they were quite embarrassed. They substituted Foster Grant, who actually was better than Goulet.

And Texas, if that be the case with Philadelphis Story, the Jazz addition was a big attraction. Was that the movie where Bing sang "True Love?"

Lorrie

Yes, Bing and Grace Kelly. It is my understanding that is her real voice (unlike most cases where they put Marnie Nixon in for the big star, like when she sang for Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady), and I think Bing and Grace won a Grammy for it (or some big music award).

Incidentally, I couldn't remember Marnie Nixon's last name, so looked it up. Did you realize she also sang for Natalie Wood in West Side Story and for Deborah Kerr in both An Affair to Remember and The King and I?

Another bit of trivia -- that was Grace Kelly's REAL engagement ring from Prince Ranier that she wore in High Society!

"Evita" is wonderful as a movie from the Bio. of Evita Perron-- Banderas shocked me, he was so good-- I only thought of him as a spaghetti western type actor. I was fortunate enough to see "Evita" in London, New York and here in Austin. It was such a telling experience to see a London production, so audiance intimate as compared to, the large extravaganza produced in New York with more flash and sound in a theater two or three times larger then in London. Here at the Performing Arts Center we had a traveling group that did an admirable job with more emphasis on the stylized movements. And yes, I own the vidio.

My all time favorite is "Ryan's Daughter" but it truely isn't a musical is it. The accompanying score is wonderful-- I just have always loved that movie. The symbolism of her escaping her life starting when the English officer has his flashback and both unite under the table in darkness untill the sun sets and in darkness the explosion that kills him seems so symbolic of a dream state rather than the reality of a love affair. It was not made for the theater either that I know about. Just love the movie what can I say!

How about "Mary Poppins" - I read that and "Mary Poppins Returns" to my children - and of course "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"-- I still pull it out and watch it from time to time. Oh yes and what about the Van Trapp family. I read that book when I was in high school and then with Julie Andrews it was a smash and then there have been productions of it in high schools. I do not know though if it was actually on Broadway.

TEXAS SONGBIRD you bet not in that order!!

Ann Alden

I appreciate the advice, but actually, there is no one who is more up on this stuff than I. My kids, bless them, think I'm invincible (I sure did brainwash them)and they look to me to know what's going on. If I take one of them with me, it's just for morale.

Barbara, what a wondeul post! I like your description of the differences between a more audience/intimate production in London and the big deals they put on here. I didn't see Evita, because I frankly can't stand Madonna, but I'm told whe was very good in that role. And yes, several people have mentioned Antonio Banderas--always with a sigh and a leer. Evidently he's quite a hunk!

Jeanlock: At least when you take your kids to the doctor's with you you know where they are.

Lorrie

And Texas Songbird: I like all the trivia that goes with movies, and plays, and even best-sellers!

Lorrie

Don't forget Franz Lehar who wrote, "The Merry Widow" which was a great success in Austria in 1901 or thereabouts. He sort of kickstarted the rest of this type of theatre musical. Operattas came along about then I believe his was the first.

Thought you might enjoy reading about Musicals and how they are made into movies. Musicals

After reading some of this most interesting site, I stand corrected about when the operettas may have started. I thought that I read that "The Merry Widow" was a different and lighter type of opera and that it may have been the first. But in reading this site, I find many other musical theatre genre started much sooner than than that, like 1859 or thereabouts. Oh well, this site is an education and I am enjoying it.

Ann, yes there were lots of "operettas" - Sigmund Romberg's "The Student Prince" is showing locally in Boston now.

Barbara referred to the wonderful "Sound of Music" with the Von Trapp family.

"Meet Me In St. Louis" is one of my top favorites, I saw it on Tv fairly recently and appreciated Judy's wonderful humor all the more.

Eileen

Ann: Thank you for the link. That's very interesting, and I'm marking it. Those operettas were a wonderful way for people who couldn't afford live theatre tickets to become acquainted with really good music. I know in our neighborhood we saw several wonderful musicals at out local parks; their summer entertainment was a great way to spend an evening under the stars. It was there that I first heard some of our local talent sing excerpts from all the operettas, and I'll never forget the thrill I felt. There has to be something to those melodies---why else would we be able to hum the songs 50 or more years later? I can even quote the lyrics almost verbatim from "You Are Love" from Showboat! ta de da, da de da dum!

Lorrie

In case you haven't read this page at that Musicals site, this was an eye opener to me.

A History of The Musical The First Broadway Musicals: 1796-1879

The American musical was born before European operetta crossed the Atlantic. The only question is how long before?

In The American Musical Stage Before 1800 (New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press, 1962, p. vii), Julian Mates tells us that "America's early theatres were essentially lyric theatres . . . In America, no earlier dramatic forms existed, and the musical stage became our only tradition." According to Mates, the first known musical written and performed in America was The Archers, written by William Dunlap and Benjamin Carr.

While the music had an operatic flavor, The Archers was designed as a popular entertainment. It premiered on April 18th, 1796 at New York's John Street Theatre. Documentation is incomplete, but The Archers was well received and went on to performances in Boston and other cities. Sadly, it started no trend. During America's first hundred years, its favorite musical entertainments were the variety and minstrel shows discussed in earlier chapters.

Most theatre scholars agree that the first American musical appeared about seventy years after The Archers. And it all began on a street whose name became synonymous with musical theatre -- Broadway.

Don't forget Gilbert & Sullivan. Theirs were considered musicals, though today some call them operettas or even operas.

One other good musical Gene Kelly played in was "Brigadoon." This movie co-starred Van Johnson and Cyd Charise. This was one of my all times favorites I'm sure this was a Broadway stage production,also.

"Finian's Rainbow." The movie starred Fred Astair and though I'm not sure, I think Cyd Charise co-stared in this, too. I know "Finian's" was a Broadway musical. The singing in the stage production was superb.

Who, dear readers, do you think was the better dancer: Fred Astair or Gene Kelly? I don't think one could go wrong picking either of them. I've pondered this question for years and I still can't make up my mind.

Bill H

I vote for Fred Astaire

He was the more romantic dancer

Bill, in my humble opinion, it's hard to really differentiate. They each had a unique style of dancing, were equally graceful and full of verve when they danced, but if it were a straight-out call I think I would vote for Fred Astaire simply because he did so much of his own choreography. Anyway, I used to love to see them dance. Another thing, Astaire had a sort of deboanair sophistication in that top hat and tails that Kelly didn't. But Kelly was magnificent in "An American in Paris." What to say?

Lorrie

MARY PAGE...you're right about Astaire being the more romantic dancer, but I have been seeing him a lot lately in his old movies, and I am really getting sick of his mannerisms. Too much of a good thing, perhaps!

I've been reading the posts but musicals were never my favorite kind of movie,however that won't stop me from offering my opinion

I liked Gene Kelly better than Astaire. Maybe because he was younger but he had a more casual approach to the dance and he was every bit as inventive. Remember his number with a cartoon mouse? And I think the story part of his movies was more entertaining.He certainly was a more romantic lead. Brigadoon just played the other night here. I also liked Donald O'Conner better. Marj

M Donald O'Connor was always a big favorite of mine too. I thought his singing voice was wonderful as well as his fabulous dancing.

Let's see, some other male dancers - Gene Nelson, Gower Champion, Dan Dailey, Bob Fosse, Russ Tamblyn. O my goodness, let's not forget James Cagney as George Cohan in "Yankee Doodle Dandy.".

Bill In my opinion, Astaire and Kelly were entirely different in their approach to dancing. Astaire was the elegant one and Kelly was the macho one. I liked them equally for their own unique styles.

Eileen

Ann -- Thanks for that great link. I'm going to spend more time there when I have more time to spare!

Here are a couple of other good links:

http://www.execpc.com/~suden/music.html and http://musicals.net (you don't need the www)

Hi, everybody! Sorry I'm late getting back in here, but I've been wallowing around in potato salad for two days, and I just now had a chance to rest my feet. Our picnic was a huge success, thank Heaven.

but to get back to the subject of male dancers---let's not forget Ray Bolger. I thought he was pretty good, too. And George Murphy? And did you know that Caesar Romero had been a professional dancer, also? Remember all these oldies?

Lorrie

And Buddy Ebsen. I've never seen anyone with such rubbery legs!

Lorrie, I am so glad your picnic was a huge success as I knew it would be with your potato salad, Got any left for us or is it not allowed in here and no I do not want to have to clean the carpet's soooooo no potatoe salad here just slip me some. LOL I love musicals TRAMP, TRAMP, THE BOY,S ARE MARCHING. I also like great dancer,s all it is hard to pick as they all have there own style and all are special in there own way. I tapped danced as a child and was offered one thousand dollars for me in the 40ies but sure are glad my folks refused as God only knows what might have happened to me. it was offerd in Peoria, Ill.

You sure do have a good thing going here. I read all the post but have been on vacation and sick with the flu but I am back.

senior net sister, Ginger

Oh, Ginger, it's so good to see your post! We have missed you, but I'm so glad you're feeling better. Do you know I actually had to tidy up here and run the vacuum myself? Gracious!

Potato salad!!Please! Don't even mention it---I don't care if I never see another potato!

This discussion is fun. We've got a great group of musical lovers and film critics here, some of your comments are quite witty. And some half-witty, too! Hahaha

Lorrie

Or did you mean half-wits?

Ginger: Did you mean someone offered a measly $1000 for you? Good heavens, prices were low in those days, weren't they? At that price, my parents could probably have made around $4000 for me and my sister and two brothers. If they were asked back then, I'll bet they would have hesitated a long time. Hahaha

Lorrie we are both back and glad to be for sure. I had a good day went out to eat after chicken soup for a week and the beef veg for another. That stuff you made sure sounds good to me at this time but I will not mention it. OK.

Senior net sister, Ginger

Lorrie, I think my parents hesitated for awhile as that was a lot of money in 1940.

Sammy Davis, Jr. was a great dancer as well.

Some years back, while I was visiting my sister out on Long Island she treated me to a ticket to see a Broadway musical. I had heard nothing about what was currently playing, and left the decision up to her. Fortunately, she picked a musical that was all the rage at the time, and presented me with an orchestra seat at a matinee of "La Cage Aux Folles." I can't begin to describe how enchanted I was---the costumes were dazzling, the story very funny, and the music truly memorable. I came out of that theatre humming the show tunes and with a feeling of pleasure that I have never felt after a live performance since. At that time, Peter Marshall had one of the leads, and surprisingly, sang everything in a very pleasant baritone voice. That one musical is one whose memory I treasure, as I told my sister repeatedly. There is nothing that can compare with a live performance of a musical comedy!! Do you agree?

Lorrie

I agree ABSOLUTELY. And it doesn't even have to be Broadway quality. As a reviewer of live theater (musicals AND dramas) at one time in Austin, I saw a lot of stuff ranging from college productions to Little Theater -- ones that ran the gamut from atrocious to awesome. Most were local productions, but I saw a few touring shows. I even saw a number of outstanding (and less than outstanding) high school productions. And with just a few exceptions, I would say that most were credible productions. But except for those few exceptions, I got that feeling of LIVE THEATER that can't be beat. I just LOVE live theater.

Incidentally, speaking of live theater, there is a folder called "Talke About the Theater" in the Arts, Crafts and Entertainment folder. Be sure and come over and visit.

LORRIE...absolutely! Nothing can compare! I taped "Into the Woods" when it was on PBS some years ago, complete with Bernadette Peters. Not long after, our local Playhouse did it, and it was so much better! Truly! I don't know how much the "being live" had to do with it, but we were enthralled with the professionalism and pure talent displayed by our amateurs.

Now I'm in the mood for another, but will settle for "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat" in DVD. It arrived this afternoon. I bought it sight unseen, so if it's not up to all the raves I read here, you guys are gonna get it! I really doubt that you'll have to worry. Hehehe!

Lorrie, I agree 100%, there is nothing like a live performance. I saw "Oklahoma" in Chicago when I was 15 and when they sang the title song I can't describe the feeling I had!!! What a foot stomper!! Incidentally, in the show was a performer my Aunt Liz and I went backstage to see. He was from Charlestown, MA and Aunt Liz knew him and his brother, Jack Donahue and Walter Donahue. . . .what a thrill it was to meet someone in the show!

Eileen

I guess it's a matter of taste, but I really did enjoy Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. Let us know what you think.

My son and his family watched it with me the other night, and they all loved it. Even the little ones (18 months and 3 years) watched it in parts. One of the things I like about it is the different styles of theater that are represented. "Those Canaan Days" reminds me of Fiddler on the Roof, while "One More Angel in Heaven" is a foot-stomping Texas hoedown (complete with twangs!). There's an apache dance (and guys singing with French accents), and then you've got the whole rock 'n' roll Egyptian sequence and the Jamaican-beat stuff. A little something for everyone!

Bit of trivia -- as best as I can tell, the show never actually calls the coat of many colors "the amazing technicolor dreamcoat"! Especially not the "technicolor" part.

Bill H--

Actually, it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Astair wss the end of the tap dance era altho he did go a bit into more balletic styles at the end. Kelly was actually from the ballet type of dancing. So, you can like them both, equally. Unless, of course, you have a preference for tap over ballet, or vice versa. Kelly really had a lot to do with familiarizing the great public with ballet type dancing which became very popular.

Katie, "Joseph, etc." was everything Texas Songbird says it was, and more! A really wonderful variety of different show-stoppers--she describes it so well in her post!

Eileen, we saw "Oklahoma" live here at the then brand new Ordway Theatre, and at the beginning, when he came out on that horse on the stage, everybody held their breath, wondering if the horse would...... And he did, right in the middle of the second chorus of "O What a Beautiful Morning!!" It brought the house down, you can imagine. I swear that poor animal actually looked embarrassed! That's one live performance I won't forget.

Lorrie

Oh, LORRIE...that is hysterical! And the poor guy singing...how did he do? Laughing thru his tears?

Well, I invested one hour and 18 minutes in "Joseph and the ATD" tonight, and almost did it all over again! I loved it...every minute, just as you all said I would! My thanks to every one of you, you musical lovers with the terribly good taste! It was money well spent! Can hardly wait until the 10 year old comes over...now that he has memorized all the lyrics to "The Music Man".

Love...Katie

Jeanlock: You're right, comparing Astaire and Kelly is like matching apples and oranges. Everybody has a different opinion, I can see that.

What about female dancers? Do you have any favorites? I was always partial to Cyd Charisse. Oh, those lovely long legs! Some people thought Shirley MacLaine was a real hoofer, How about you all?

Ginger Rogers, Leslie Caron, Ruby Keeler!, Ann Miller...

And I agree about Cyd Charisse. She was probably the best of the bunch, I don't care what Ann Miller thinks!

Lorrie--

Leslie Caron, hands down. Again, I tend to lean toward the balletic. Remember her and Kelly in American in Paris, dancing along the Seine to "Our Love is Here to Stay" (I think)--even just typing this gives me goose bumps.

You know, actually, I think the term used for some of the other dancers was "hoofers" which implies a totally different effect. Donald O'Connor, Dan Dailey, et al. ??????

Lorrie, that's a knee slapper! What a lovely aroma must have wafted off the stage. (: You mentioned Ray Bolger, how could I forget him, he was from Boston!

Women daners - excuse me - the best, the late, great Eleanor Powell with legs up to here! I so wanted to be like her, on my little stumpy legs. Let's see, I can think of Vera Ellen, Mitzi Gaynor.

How about favorite female singers??? Jeanette McDonald, Jane Powell, Katherine Grayson for starters.

Eileen

I agree with JeanLock (as I frequently do) that Leslie Caron was the finest female dancer. Also loved Cyd Charisse and Ann Miller. Cyd was the sexier. And yes, Eleanor Powell was fabulous.

But I was absolutely bowled over by Fred Astaire and Rita Haworth dancing to "Moonlight Becomes You". Knocked my socks off, as we used to say. I liked her best of all of his partners.

I agree. Kelly and Astair did have differn't styles. Both excelled in their type of dance. I guess I liked Fred Astair the best because of Ginger Rodgers. When I was a youngster, I fell in love with Ginger.

I think all those other names you selected were great, both male and female I forgot about all those great female dancers. They were all so good.

I don't think Donald O'Connor ever got the credit he deserved. He was a very good dancer and contributed much to every movie he played in, but Dan Daly, I don't know, to me he seemed like a big hoofer, which, of course, he was. He made up for it though with his acting. I liked the movie he played in with James Cagney. Was it "No Guts No Glory?" It was about a Marine Batalion in France, during the First World War.

Female singers: Let's not forget Kate Smith. Nobody ever sang "God Bless America" like she did.

If we were to take a vote for the best dance scene in a movie, I would have to vote for Gene Kelly's dance scene in "Singing In The Rain." Their still runing clips of him dancing in the yellow rain coat with the umbrella while the rain poured on him and the police officer looked on. Wasn't that great?

Astair and Kelly different but equally great.

How about you folks. What dance scenes did you like the best in the movie musicals. I'm sure you all could jog my memory of some great ones.

Bill, I have to agree with you, the Gene Kelly dance in the rain is my favorite scene from all the musicals. That scene just gives you a lift, doesn't it? I never tire of seeing it!

Except that he wasn't wearing a yellow raincoat! That was Debbie Reynolds in the yellow raincoat!

He did that dance while running a high temperature...104°, I think...and his suit jacket was wool. It had to be replaced several times before they finished shooting the dance sequence, because the wool got so wet it shrank!

It certainly was the greatest dance scene, ever!

Bill, you are right about Kate Smith.

My favorite dance bit was the Astaire/Hayworth I mentioned, but I also loved that Kelly dance in the rain and Shirley Temple dancing with Bo Jangles Robinson in The Little Colonel. Am I the only one old enough to remember that one?

Oh, Mary Page, that was a wonderful scene, with Shirley Temple and Bojangles dancing down those steps!! There was another one, with Fred Astaire and Cyd charisse, I can't remember the name, but she was a ballerina who somehow got into a chorus girl act in Vegas and had to do what was almost a strip tease--it was hilarious!

Lorrie

Or Leslie Caron in "Lily," was it?

Ohhh and the roof top dance scene among all the chimmey pots in Mary Poppins... Oh yes and "Step in Time" at the fair with those long sticks.

How about Donald O'Conner in "Singin in the Rain" where he danced up the wall and around all the furniture. What was that music? Something about a clown or friends? Very well done! He was not only a good dancer but a good comedian. I always liked him. Remember him in the Francis movies? So silly, but entertaining!

I vote for Gene Kelly's dance to Singin in the Rain. He was such a good interperter of music. Remember when he danced with the cartoon character. That was the first time that was done. Live performers and cartoon characters together. Very invative at the time. Now we take it for granted. And all the dancing in "American In Paris"? So charming!

Went to an annual Senior Celebration today. We had a wonderful concert by the Columbus Symphony featuring a new young pianist who is only a freshman at the Gahanna Lincoln HS. What a talented young man. He is Russian and has been studying piano since he was five and has won all sorts of worldwide awards. I have not idea what he doing here in Gahanna, unless its just where he landed while studying with well known professor, Glaser, at Ohio State University. I bet he will be in the Van Cliburn finals someday! After the concert, we had our lunch and then saw a wonderful movie, titled "Music From the Heart". If you haven't seen it, do! And, have a big box of tissues available. Super story and true! All about a lady who started a program in the East Harlem schools teaching the children to play violin. Sniff, sniff! Where's my tissue? There is a preview of it on here somewhere and I had to grab the hankie just watching it.

Back to the musicals, I think that most of the good actors and actresses could all dance, even Jack Benny! But there were only a few professional dancers such as Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly plus Cyd Charrisse, Ann Miller and Mitzi Gaynor.

A friend of ours was in the army during WWII with Dan Dailey and just didn't like him as a person. Said he was a rich boy from Dayton,OH and a spoiled brat. The best thing that I ever saw him in was on TV where he played a comedic role as the Govenor in "The Govenor and JJ" or vice versie! He did not dance. Was just a funny man!

I loved Gene Nelsen in "Oklahoma". And I recall that scene where they all danced at the hoedown. The grandma, what was her name? Charlotte Greenwood! What a super movie!

Well I am off to the health club and the babysitting and then an afternoon High Tea at our Senior Center. Where's my straw hat?

Ann, wasn't "Music From the Heart" the movie that starred Meryl Streep? I know it got some very nice reviews.

I must say, all you people have some vivid memories of famous dance scenes in past movies, Some of them are so memorable that it's hard to really pick out the "best" of any of them.

Maybe it's just me, but in my estimation, the modern day "stars" just don't seem to have the talent former entertainers did. For one thing, every one of the people we're talking about here had a unique sort of style, and every one of them showed the results of very hard work and rehearsals. They used to say that Fred Astaire was a perfectionist, and would rehearse over and over until he got what he thought was a perfect performance, and it showed. I just don't see that kind of dedication any more. I could be wrong.

Lorrie

Just about my favorite "dance" scene is in "Seven Brides For Seven Brothers", the one with six of the guys bemoaning their lack of women while chopping wood. The timing of those axe strokes, the body movements, and the lyrics was simply tremendous! I liked it even better than the famous barn-building dance number.

I remember when Dan Dailey was arrested for wearing clothing unbecoming to a grown man, while he was hanging around downtown Hollywood.

Oh pooh, I'm disappointed, I liked Dan Dailey and thought he seemed like a regular guy - humpf, guess not!

Katie, "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" dance with the "townies" and the brothers pitted against each other, I thought was the most thrilling dance I'd ever seen! When they had the MGM musical tribute one scene was a tap dance with Fred Astaire and Eleanor Powell - wowsers!

Eileen

How about John Travolta in his black pants and satiny shirt. I cannot remember the movie's name but he was electrafying.

Oh, yes! That 7 brides dance routine was MARVELOUS. Pure enjoyment.

And how ABOUT John Travolta! Wish he would dance more. I will always remember that Princess Diana asked to dance with him at the White House.

I expect he will always remember that as well.

BARBARA...do you mean "Saturday Night Fever"? I loved the dancing in that movie! He wore a white suit in the number I remember the most fondly. Slinky, I guess is the word that fits his dance routine.

Sigh!

ATTENTION! I'VE JUST FOUND OUT THAT THEY HAVE STARTED A NEW DISCUSSION OVER ON THIRD AGE THAT IS TITLED, YES, BOOKS INTO MOVIES!! TALK ABOUT COPYCATS! Well, anyway, I'll bet they don't have half the fun we do here, and I'll bet they don't even have popcorn, much less Mary Page's lovely truffles. Sniff, sniff!

Lorrie

Someone gave me a huge box of truffles for my birthday, and I have eaten all the ones I like. Anyone want some peanut butter filled ones (ugh!) and some white chocolate covered ones (again ugh!)?

Slinky is a good description, Katie. I think he seems very liquid and loose jointed. He reminds me a bit of Raggedy Andy when he is dancing. I cannot figure out just what it is about his dancing that fascinates me, but it truly does. Travolta just strikes me as a very decent sort of guy who I would like as a friend, but he most definitely does not "turn me on" or anything of the sort. His DANCING, however, does turn me on!

All right, Ladies and Gentlemen, to bring the subject back to what our discussion is really all about, I have a simple quiz for you. Of all the titles or musicals listed above, many, but not all of them, were originally from books or stage plays. How many of these can you name? The one who picks the most titles of the musicals made from books or plays wins a prize. Take your time--the quiz does not officially end until next Monday. That will give you research time. Hahhaha!

Lorrie

Oh and another more recent than our beloved 30s, 40s and 50s movies-- what was that movie where the young woman works in a steel mill and practices on her own in a large room with only a recording to help her. She dances without a teacher and to a quickening beat. I think the more educated foreman falls for her and somehow she gets her audition for either Juliard or Broadway. She was a cute brunette that was all the rage in several movies at the time. Talk about 20 questions but I can see parts of the movie in my minds eye and she was dancing a feeling I remember of 'I am woman.' I remember feeling so empowered 'to be' after seeing that movie.

And yes, thank you, it was "Saturday Night Fever." Yes, John Travolta seems such a nice man. Many of his roles seem such a departure from the man I think he is.

I just happened upon this site and I'm thrilled.I've only spent time on the computer folder, so far. I love musicals and worked in community theatre as a producer and one time director for many years here in Canada. In London, Ontario, in 1981, HBO shot a film in our beautiful Grand Theatre titled The Last Great Vaudeville Show with Donald O'Connor and Debbie Reynolds and a number of other lesser knowns. I was Donald O'Connor's production assistant (read gofer) and he and his wife Gloria were lovely to me. He talked about that dance number he did in Singing In The Rain. The music was "Be A Clown" and he said when he asked Gene Kelly if he could try a few things with it and was given the go-ahead he worked very hard on that number. When they finished shooting it he went home, exhausted but happy. The next day he showed up on the set and was told that the colour on the film was bad and he had to do it all over again with all the aches and pains left over from the day before. Ah, the glamour of show business, hm? My wonderful family haas given me tickets to see The Lion King in Toronto in August and I'm really looking forward to it. I live on the east coast now, hence the nickname Maritimer. I loved Cyd Charisse and Gene Kelly best, but I loved all the old dancers. Nice to meet all of you. My name is Fern.

The name of the young dancer you were just talking about is Jennifer Beals. I can't think of the name of the movie right now (senior moment?) Ah, I think it was Flashdancing or something like that.

Welcome Fern so glad you found us. How wounderful to have known some of the very icons of dance we admire! Aha Jennifer Beal-- ah so-- I really do not think I would have rembered her name but yes, "Flashdance" it was-- Thanks!

WELCOME, WELCOME, FERN! WHAT INTERESTING TALES YOU MUST HAVE TO TELL. PLEASE STAY WITH US AND TELL US MORE ABOUT ANY PERSONAL CONTACT YOU HAD WITH THE "stars." WAS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT YOU MET PERSONALLY EITHER THEN OR NOW? I THOUGHT THAT ANECDOTE ABOUT DONALD O'CONNOR WAS GREAT!

LORRIE

Thanks for the warm welcome. I think I'll stay for awhile. O.K. Debbie Reynolds was in that film as well. She was doing her Mae West impression. She was a hoot to work with. I remember petite Debbie standing in the wings, waiting to go on. She was all padded up to look like the voluptuous Mae and kept us in stitches while pretending to adjust her very large fake bosom. We always had an audience during the filming and during the warmup she made several unflattering but funny comments about Eddie Fisher and Liz Taylor. There was one comedian, who shall remain nameless, a Canadian, unfortunately, who kept sending out for bottles of Scotch. Needless to say, he disappeared from the film. I noticed in earlier posts that Robert Goulet, another Canadian, was not well received in his early days. The critics blasted him for his "wooden" performance in Camelot. He used to have a TV show in Canada and I had a big crush on him. (Hey, people change.) I was staring, moony-eyed at him one evening and my father was laughing so hard at me.As for the intimacy of English theatre,yes. The first time I went to England in the 70's, I was pleased to see that we could have a little tray of lemonade and "sweeties" in our seats.I saw Claire Bloom in A Doll's House, Lauren Bacall in Applause, Jesus Christ Super Star and two others I can't retrieve at the moment. Five years ago,in England, I saw Buddy (the Buddy Holley story) and it was great. We had ice cream while watching the show. People were dancing in the aisles, my daughter was bouncing in her seat, singing along. Interestingly, the actor who played Buddy was on the underground (subway) on his way home. He said, "Oh, yeah, I'm just a working bloke, like everyone else." I've been to Stratford in England and used to go to the Stratford Festival in Ontario, every summer when I lived 40 minutes from there. Well, haven't I opened up the floodgates? There is quite a time difference, I notice. It's 12:48pm, Atlantic Time, here.

Maritimer, Fern Welcome to Books & Literature! This marvelous folder is just one of many wonderful discussions we have in Books and Literature. If you look down the Index you will see "Library and Bookmobile" which is a general discussion area. Plus we discuss all types of books, please feel free to "lurk" or drop in and comment in any folder, you will be welcomed!

Donald O'Connor was one of my all time favorites, what a thrill it must have been to meet him. I second Lorrie in asking if you have any more stories like that, it was fascinating.

Eileen

And look whose picture is here.....Lorrie!

šjane›

Hi pretty lady, Lorrie! You are as delightful in person, even more so, as you are in this folder. (:

Eileen

Thank you, thank you, everyone!!

Fern, this is great! Like all movie buffs and novel readers, we're all anxious to meet anyone who has had personal dealings with celebrities. Your posts are really eye-catching. Have you ever met any authors?

P.s. I had a crush on Robert Goulet, also, much to my husband's disgust!

Oh, Lorrie! You are SO pretty! Boy, am I going to keep My ugly snout out of and off of these postings! I'd better stay away from any gatherings, too. The competition is just Too fierce!

Fern, instead of saying "Welcome", as we do to all new voices, I feel I want to say Thank You for Honoring us by joining our group and PLEASE stay with us! You are a Blessed Event for us.

After my picking the names for our first 2 daughters, I felt it only fair my husband pick the 3rd. Oh, I had a name for her alright, but I wanted him to choose it. Well, he did not. He chose to name her Debbie for Debbie Reynolds. So I made her Deborah Jane (he could not come up with a middle name for the life of him!), the Jane being one of the names I had chosen, and of course there were FIVE Debbie's in the nursery that week: 2 Debbie Janes, 2 Debbie Jeans, and 1 Debbie Ann. When she was on her High School Drill Team, there were 5 Debbie's as well. So we changed her to Debi, since their names were embroidered on the front panel of their uniforms.

I have often wondered at this phenomenon of naming babies for famous people instead of giving them family names. Well, we all do it.

MARY PAGE...maybe if your name is PAGE you can get away with naming your baby after a famous person, but if it is STURTZ, you tend to be a bit more circumspect. HEHEHE!

How could I not stay with such hospitable people? Have I met any authors? I didn't actually "meet" these Canadian authors but two of them, Earle Birney, the poet, and Graeme Gibson, Margaret Atwood's POSSLQ (persons of the opposite sex living together) lectured at an English class I was taking at university,called, what else? Canadian Literature. I got Alice Munro's autograph but I was so in awe of her that when she asked me what I wanted her to say, I blurted out: "Just your name." Mary Page, I devoted my life to berating my mother for calling me Fern. She always said, "I thought it was cute, I almost called you April." Of course it made for a good knock- knock joke for my sister: Knock,knock. Who's there? Furniture. Furniture who? Furniture your turn to do the dishes. Triple groaner.

Ladies, ladies!! At the risk of sounding like a prissy schoolmarm, I think we should bring our thoughts back to the subject that we are ostensibly discussing here---Books into Movies.

I had asked if you could name any of the listed musicals that were taken from books or stage plays, but as I look that list over I can see that almost all of them had a literary source of some kind. So in the interest of brevity, can you name the productions that were not taken from books or plays? I'm not counting animated stories like "Beauty & the Beast,"etc.

By the way, Fern, wasn't Margaret Atwood the author of "The Handmaid's Tale? Anoter book into movie, by the way!

Lorrie

Well, well! I've just been informed that the Spring issue of an online magazine is just out, and there's a story I wrote in it! The magazine is called "The Wrex Pages, and it's edited and published by one of our more active SenionNetters, Marlyn Freeman, a frequent contributor to these discussions. Go on over and tell me what you think of my story. I thought it was a little grim for a "Springy" issue, but what do I know? There's also a very good essay by our own Robby, another Discussion leader. The name of my story is "Deja Vu" and it is not autobiographical!

THE WREX PAGES

Lorrie

You're right, KATTIE, Gene didn't wear that yellow rain coat. I only realized my mistake in the evening long fter I posted. I think it was the polce offcer who wore a rain coat and it was not yellow.

Bill H

Hello, Fern! So what's your date to see "Lion King" in Toronto? My husband and I will be there from August7 to August 11 and have tickets(already in my trip folder) to see "Lion King" on August 9 at 8pm. If you are there during that week, we should be meeting for tea and crumpets at least. SN'ers never miss a chance to get together when they are in the same town or county or country! Please! please! let me know!

Back to the Books Into Movies, I am working on your list,beautiful, beautiful Lorrie, and its a hard one but we can do it. Have to return to the Braves game tonight but will return here tomorrow.

Here is part of my list: Cabaret, Camelot, Jungle Book, The King and I, Les Miserables, Seven Brides For Seven Brothers, Sound Of Music, Wizard of Oz, Ragtime, Cats, West Side Story. Looking for more!

Lorrie, yes, Margaret Atwood is the author of The Handmaid's Tale. Her poetry includes The Circle Game, The Animals In That Country, The Journals of Susanna Moodie,Procedures For Underground, Power Politics, Selected Poems, Two-headed Poems and Interlunar. Her novels are The Edible Woman,Surfacing,Lady Oracle,Life Before Man, Bodily Harm, Murder in the Dark,The Handmaid's Tale,Cat's Eye,The Robber Bride and Alias Grace. There have been two collections of short stories in recent years, Dancing Girls, Bluebeard's Egg,Wilderness Tips, Good Bones, as well as Second Words: Selected Critical Prose. She is one of our most prolific and respected writers internationally. I've read most but not all of her work. Congratulations on your story. I'm going to that site right now to read it.

Ann Alden: My tickets for The Lion King are for Tuesday,August 15 and my tentative arrival in Toronto is August 10. It all depends on my daughter booking the flight...she who has all the frequent flyer points and must be regularly reminded to book. Since she is postally challenged, she must also be reminded to mail the ticket to me. What time are you leaving on the 11th and where are you staying? I'd love to meet you and your husband. I'll be staying right downtown with friends.

Isn't it great when people can converse with each other via discussion groups here on the 'net, and then even arrange to meet in person? Even as we speak there is a group of people from my state who are making arrangements to have luncheon together somewhere nearby.

I must remind you however, gentle posters, to please use emails to make plans for meeting in person, or exchanging addresses or mutual friends' names. Seeing all these exuberant plans being made only makes the rest of the readers who never get out feel that much more wistful, and I'm aware that there are many such stay-at-homes who post not only here but in other discussions, too.
I hope i don't sound like a real spoilsport here.

Lorrie

Email it is, Lorrie. I knew that!! I forgot! Must be "string on finger challenged"! Sorry to all who are housebound!

I didn't realize that we had changed horses in the middle of the stream, Lorrie. Guess I better read the posts more better! So, back to the drawing board for "Titles that were not taken from books." Got it!

Lorrie, our resident author!I read your story when it was first in WREX so was pleased for you that it is in the SN publication. How thrilling for you! Keep up the good work!

Ann, thank you so much for your kind words. I can't begin to tell you how much encouragement I get from all these wonderful posters in many discussions. It gives impetus, that's for sure!

You are doing well on the questionnaire. When i saw that most all of the musicals above were taken from books or stage plays, i thought it would make it easier to simply list the ones that weren't taken from books.

By the way, did anyone else see "Singin in the Rain" last night on the Turner channel? That musical is as much fun to watch today as it was years ago. I think a lot of these musical shows are timeless, don't you agree?

Lorrie

When I was watching "Singing in the Rain" last night I kept thinking about what Fern here told us in regard to Donald O'Conner. To look at him doing that scene, you think how effortless it seems!! Right, Fern?

Lorrie

The Tony Awards will be on t.v. tomorrow. I was really glad to see that so many of the nominated shows were musicals. I would love to be in NY and see some of them.

Phyll

Lorrie, your story was terrific, you should send it to M.A.D.D (mothers against drunk driving) if there is a chapter in your state. I tried to click on Robbie's story but my computer froze and I'm not taking the chance it will do it again.

Today I'm not going to have time to look up those stage and movie productions that were not books and tomorrow is graduation day for grandson, Dan, so I'll be back Monday to try!

Eileen

Eileen: Take your time, we're on summer hours now, so we'll be taking a more leisurely pace here. It's funny about those shows, though. I was really surprised to see how many of them were actually taken from books or plays. We all know about My Fair Lady, and Sound of Music, and all the long-running shows, but it's surprising how many of the lesser-known ones were also books or plays once.

I like to watch the Tony awards far more than the Oscar shows. It seems to me there isn't so much "glitz," or maybe I didn't notice it as much. One reviewer wrote a very scathing remark once recently about th dearth of good new shows. He seemed to think that Broadway was becoming synonymous with remake after remake. What do you think?

Lorrie

Right,Lorrie, about the hard work Donald O'Connor put into his dance numbers. I have a couple of more anecdotes about that filming but I'm tired and I'm going to go to bed with my book "Home From the Vinyl Cafe" by Stuart McLean. He's had me laughing so hard I was in tears. I do agree with you, Lorrie, about the Tonys being more enjoyable to watch than the Oscars. As for that critic...how many times has Shakespeare's work been repeated? They can't recycle that too often for me.

Did anyone get to watch A&E's repeat of The Life of a Geisha which was on Saturday afternoon? I saw it when it was first on and really enjoyed it. At the time, we were reading a book about geishas so our knowledge was expanded.

Didn't see "Singin' In The Rain" as there must have been a ball game on, yes, there was!

I heard the article about Broadway plays being repeated on PBS Radio on Saturday and was interested in the fact that there are very few new plays on Broadway this year and all of the theatres are active.

While I was looking for which musicals were books, I was surprised to see that 7 Brides for 7 Brothers was a book titled "Sobbin' Women" by Stephen Vincent Benet. What a surprise that was! I must look for a copy at our library. Also, read that "Cats" comes from book of poems by T.S.Elliott titled "CATS". And, also, "Cabaret" is from "I Am A Camera".

Wow! Anne, you really have been doing your homework! Now that surpprises me. I didn't know Cabaret was from I Am a Camera! And who would ever dream that Cats is from a book of poetry? All this is narrowing our search down for musicals that weren't made from books, plays, or poems!

Everybody, don't forget to watch the Tony Awards show tonight!

Lorrie

Oh! Oh! Oh!

And I thought EVERYONE knew about Cats!

You must, you simply MUST get a book of T.S. Eliot's poetry and read the ones about cats. I had read them eons ago, but went and bought a paperback before going to see Cats. The songs in the show are almost word for word the poetry that Eliot wrote. Beautiful. Exquisite beyond words. AND reading the poetry first makes you appreciate and understand the whole performance.

Sorry; don't mean to sound uppish here. It is just that (1) I adore those poems and (2) I am all excited this morning about the news that we have created light and changed the laws of physics as we have known them, including Einstein's Theory of Relativity. I always thought we would, but was absolutely crushed because I did not think I would live to see it! This is a Great Day!

I suppose the sports shows, etc., will go on as listed; but in my humble opinion, all broadcasting should cease it's scheduled broadcasts and go to scientists all over the planet to explain and marvel at this development!

Mary Page, what are you talking about? Is the world going to be better from this discovery? What were you watching anyway?

Can't believe that Cats was from T S Elliott poetry but I will be looking for that book,too. Along with "Sobbin' Women" by Stephen Vincent Benet from which 7 Brides For 7 Brothers comes. Amazing, isn't it!

Ann, it might help your search for the basis for "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" to remember Stephen Vincent Benet was using a word-play when he wrote his story. He was actually referring to Roman legend that told of the rape of the Sabine(Sobbin') women. There's a famous painting of this by Nicholas Poussin, I saw it once at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. Here's a short note:
Rape of the Sabines [sayb'eyenz]
. This refers to the Romans' scheme for populating their city. Most of the early inhabitants of Rome were men, and when neighboring peoples refused to marry their daughters to the Romans, the Romans invited the Sabine tribe to a festival in the city; then, at a given signal, they seized the Sabine women. The Sabine men fled, but later they launched an attack: Tarpeia, the daughter of the Roman commander, showed them a path to the Capitoline Hill, but they were unable to take the Forum, because Janus caused jets of boiling water to spring forth at the entrance to the Forum. The war came to an end when the Sabine women walked between the battling forces and pleaded for peace. The Sabines became citizens of Rome and their leader was named Romulus' colleague.
Lorrie

"Cats" is based on fourteen poems of T. S. Eliot's Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats with music by Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Site with sketch and cliquable link to David's Rape of the Sabine Woman housed in the Louvre

"I Am a Camera"...A Play in Three Acts By John Van Druten. Adapted from the Berlin stories of Christopher Isherwood Greenwood Press Reprint. . 1952. 182 pages

GOODBYE TO BERLIN, 1939 - Cabaret - Jäähyväiset Berliinille - the story's genesis in the film Cabaret (1972) was based on this book, which on turn inspired Fred Ebb-John Kanders' Broadway musical from John van Druten's play I am a Camera, filmed in 1955

Ann, any library will have the T.S. Elliott with the CATS poems. You can also buy it in paperback on the net or in a used book store, as well as brand new.

As for the latest scientific discovery, well, I am still very excited, but have heard not one peep on the tv news. And I have clicked from news channel to news channel.

My son called me around 11:30 p.m. Saturday night to say that he had heard it on his car radio while driving home that night. He knew I would be thrilled because, while I have been expecting a break through in the laws of physics as we know them, I did not think it would come in my life time, and that was a huge disappointment to me. Very excited, I got up and checked the tv. Nothing. Checked the morning tv and paper. Nothing. In mid day yesterday I went out to return a video to my local Blockbuster's and flipped on my car radio on the way home. There, on WTOP news, (CBS), was the word that this has been done in Britain and confirmed and announced by our Princeton University. I just caught the last part of this announcement, but the spokesperson said this will definitely put a dent in the Theory of Relativity, although not do away with it, and that space travel will take a while yet, as will time travel, but we are on the way. Again, I expected the news to hit the tv last night and this morning. Again, nothing. I haven't a clue as to why this is so. I can only surmise that the news desks have so little interest in Science that they don't know BIG NEWS when they hear it!

MaryPage: We've seen nothing either on the tv news. Maybe you need to get to the cbs.com website and email the "news" folks...and tell them to wake up and get with it!

šjane›

Okay, everybody! As far as I can tell, out of that horrendous list of musicals above, I counted only 21 that were not produced from either books or stage plays. I'm not sure of the total, see if your estimate is the same!

Annie Get Your Gun
Miss Saigon

Bring In Da Music, etc.
Rent
Ziegfeld Follies
Chicago--The Musical
River Dance
Singin' in the Rain
Clue
Crazy For You
Thousands Cheer
Into the Woods
Anchors Aweigh
Barkelys of Broadway
Lion King
Great Caruso
Great Ziegfeld
Lord of the Dance
An American in Paris
Sweethearts

Lorrie

Lorrie, this site is like a class room! Thanks for all the facts about "The Sobbin Women". I knew about the Sabine women but didn't put the two together. How many of us would? And, from this, they got 7 Brides? I remember the movie being very cheerful, no war, no rapes, nothin' untoward! I must look up this book also. That makes two!

No, no rapes in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, but it is Jane Powell's reading the story of the rape of the Sobbin' women to the brothers that gives them the idea of stealing their brides. They just forget to steal a preacher!

Barbara, thank you so much for those links. You are always so wonderful about supplying pertinent data to ongoing discussions!!

Ann Page: I'm afraid science was not one of my better subjects in school, but I think most everyone knows about Einstein's theory of relativity(?) My question is,like what someone else asked: How will that affect everyday life as we know it now?

Texas Songbird: See, I didn't remember that scene with Jane Powell reading to the seven brothers. This is why I'm so glad to have all you wonderful, faithful readers coming in here. Besides, i feel that the relaxed atmosphere here creates more more fun, don't you?

Lorrie

All right, I think we have milked the subject of Musicals pretty much, don't you? In my looking up stuff for something else, I noticed that many of the previous Oscar winners were taken from best-sellers, historical novels, or plays. (One exception is the most recent winner "American Beauty," whose selection I didn' agree with, but that's a whole new subject. Anyway, I'm going to put up a list of Oscar winners, so let us know which ones you liked, and which ones you hated.
Time to clean up the popcorn again, throw away the candy wrappers,run the vacuum, and make fresh tea! O, where is that Ginger when we need her?
Also, I think we have reached a sort of plateau here!!We are over the 1000mark, and will be shifting into a new discussion, so don't forget to subscribe!!

Lorrie

I went to my grandson, Dan's, high school graduation yesterday and he had a t shirt on that said:

"And God said" followed by some complicated equations - then "and then there was light"

Hope I described that clearly, I just loved it! One of Dan's friends Joul (spelling?, he was named for a unit of energy by his parents, honest!) tried to explain the equations to me, ha ha, lovely boy but way over my head!

This has indeed been an informative and fun folder, I'm looking forward to our next discussion.

Eileen

You're the boss, Lorrie, but I'd like to see the discussion continue. Or maybe we could just move it over to "Let's Talk About The Theater" -- we've had more discussion in here about theater than over there!

Lorrie, I do not believe it will affect our lives in our lifetime, but it does mean that the human race will possibly be able to get out there and populate other solar systems and even other galaxies before we either wipe ourselves out on this planet or our sun goes super nova and wipes us out. In short, it is, to me, the difference between our species becoming extinct and it not doing so. I have always been interested in this, even though we are talking about eons of time far, far after I am dust. For physics, the laws that seemed immutable have been changed. It is bigger than splitting the atom or breaking the sound barrier. What a lifetime to have lived!

One last word about T.S. Eliot and CATS; he is given credit on the playbills, CDs, videos, etc. Take a peek if you own one of these items.

Never fear, Texas Songbird: We're just going to change the heading a bit, we have to anyway because we're over 1000, but let's keep right on talking about the theatre. Later on I have a couple comments I wanted to make about Broadway plays and I would certainly like to hear some more comments from Fern, wouldn't you?

Lorrie

Mary Page, you've got me hooked on T.S. Eliot! It's on my list for the next library stop.

Eileen, what a cute idea for a T-shirt, isn't it?

Also, Mary Page, I'm really impressed with your grasp of these scientific matters. And here I thought you were just another pretty face!

Lorrie

Lorrie, YOU are the pretty face!

I used to be the Elephant's Child, but now am the old matron elephant. The intense curiosity has not dimished, however, as the waistline has expanded.

A physicist cousin (well, son of a cousin) tells me the whole story with this capturing light thing will appear in Science News and he will give me an opinion when it does. This cousin is retired.

I have a confession to make. All my life I've been lousy with math, I barely escaped flunking trigonometry, and science courses left me absolutely cold! In college I majored in all those useless (?) English courses, which I loved and in which I usually got high grades. Literary stuff turns me on, but when it comes to scientific know-how I'm really intimidated. That is why I have the utmost respect for anyone who follows this path, and I think it's marvelous that you're that interested in this new discovery, Ann Page, where most of us haven't the vaguest idea of what's happening here.

Would you believe that at one time I had this tremendous crush on Carl Saigon? Did I spell that right?

Lorrie