Hi, there! Welcome to you all!

Is everyone prepared to watch this series about famous American Writers, and then comment on what they’ve seen? After viewing each program, let’s all meet here afterwards and all through the week, to rehash and comment on what we’ve seen.

For those of you who missed the opening sequence, it will be repeated this Friday (the 23rd) at 8:00 ET, as each weekly program will be all through the scheduling.

All participants are welcome, and I strongly advise you readers to videotape any and all programs for future reference.

Now, did any of you see the original program, featuring William Bradford, who wrote the Mayflower Compact? Frankly, this was a man I didn’t find as colorful as I had hoped, but it was interesting to see the Puritan Plantation in the back ground. Do you suppose that the fact that Bradford was in the printing business had anything to do with why he was designated to write the “records” for the Mayflower travelers?

Lorrie

Oh, here you are!! Hi, Lorrie! Great heading, whoever did it. Looks wonderful, just right.

I'm looking forward to the series....have always loved to see the "where" of writers. One of my favorite books is a huge Writers' Houses with many, many photos of the room or desk or place a writer did her writing. A picture of Isik Densen's (Karen Blixen) desk in Denmark is my favorite.

So, who's on the schedule for next Monday...I must go see....ah, Benjamin Franklin. Go click on the link, then schedule, then...so many links. You can read Franklin's biography. Click on the Roman Numerals at the bottom of the page for more.

I love the heading! And I am really looking forward to this series. I won't be here next week, however, so I'll have to tape the show and watch when I get back. The Siren Song of the Sea is calling me. We're off to the beach for a few days.

TTYL

nice website

Ok, I stayed at the site longer this time (link above in the heading: Great American Writers on C-Span) and am impressed. C-span and Merriam Webster (co-sponsors of the series) have worked to make this an easy-to-use resource. Just the fact that Elizabeth Cady Stanton was chosen (instead of Susan B. Anthony, her life long best friend and for whom she wrote almost everything spoken [by Susan]) should have been a clue how well chosen these authors.

I'm becoming somewhat of an amateur critic of websites (function, fun, depth, ease) and this website is wonderful. It is still probably geared to high school and early college students, but the "look" of it is particularly nice and the function is highly intuitive (you know just what to do instantly). Lots and lots of information about each author in a small space, well organized. (I just found a detail about Edith Wharton that I can't wait to report to The House of Mirth discussion.)

betty

I will lurk but will have nothing of substance to offer as I do not have C-Span.

Robby

Well!!! That's a wonderful endorsement, Betty! And wow, what a great early response! This should amuse you a little: I wrote an email to a person connected with C-Span inquiring as to alternate sources on TV for people who can't get C-Span, and this is the answer I got. "C-SPAN is also always streamed live through the Internet.

Check out http://www.c-span.org/ <http://www.c-span.org/> . Thank you for your support of our network."

Perhaps this will help some of you.

Lorrie

Robby, it distresses me that you are unable to get C-span. So many of these featured writers are connected to American History this would be right up your alley. From what I can see, though, it looks like an awful lot of the program will be shown on the 'net here, so keep hanging in. We'd like to hear any perspective you can offer.

Lorrie

Lorrie I watched the Wm. Bradford show last monday.I was going to talk about it in Whats on TV but I now find this great beginning discussion.Your were way ahead of me.

The link to the website wet my appetite. I will be joining you and am subscribing. Love your heading. Faith

Welcome, Faith! We'll be looking forward to hearing from you!

Lorrie

Let's not forget! Tonight (Friday, Mar.23) there will be a repeat of last Monday's program. Tune in if you missed it Monday! I believe it's at 8:00 E.T. You will have to find C-Span in your TV schedule.

Lorrie

Hi, Lorrie, looking forward to this great discussion. I’m getting my VCR all warmed up. Going to record tonight's program, don't think I could take 3-hours all at one sitting.

I remember the guy in the heading!!!!It looks very good

Bill H

I'll try to remember to watch on Fri. nights--I suppose Providence is into reruns and lately it hasn't been so interesting, anyway.

MaryPage-

Thanks for offering up your son, but I'm sure Carl will be glad to do it. One just has to give him PLENTY of lead time. Right now he and his wife are having difficulties and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Well, I watched the rerun of GW-CSpan last night to see what I had missed, and I want to say this: Once you get past the "talking heads", IMHO, it turns out to be quite interesting. The actor who protrays Governor Bradford is quite good, and the Religion Professor gives some really pertinent answers. I felt that we could have done without some of the callers seeking their genealogical roots, or did that interest you? All in all, I'm looking forward to hearing more about old Ben Franklin next Monday! How about you?

Lorrie

Yes,Lorrie, Ben should be interesting.

The History Channel had a documentary about him a few weeks ago. Our Ben was sort of a scalawag)Bill H

Lorrie, I have yet to watch my recording of this past Friday’s Great Writers. However, from what I have read, Bradford’s efforts as an organizer started at the young age of 19 as a member of the Separatist movement within Puritanism.

His remarkable tact, honesty, and political ability proved indispensable in keeping the Mayflower group intact and assuring the colony’s survival, and he did all this without formal education. I have often wondered if our founding fathers had been endowed with spiritual gifts in order to form this great land of ours.

Bill H

Bill, your comments about Governor Bradford were right on target, and I noticed even some of the "experts" agree that, for a group of people unlearned in political skills and many without formal education, to be able to put together a document like the Mayflower Contract was quite remarkable. That small piece of paper that Bradford composed stood them in good stead later.

Did anyone notice the questions about his clothing? Everything seemed quite authentic, right down to his socks and garters. Hahaha

Lorrie

Yes, even to the British dialect!

I watched it for a little while last night, Lorrie, but I had seen it before! Truly! Remembered the way they spelled Plimouth, instead of the way it is usually spelled - Plymouth.

Do you suppose they have shown all these at different times on C-Span which I watch on weekends (when they have book tv both Saturday and Sunday) and just collected them to make a weekly series?

Will watch next weekend to see if I've seen Ben - don't remember him but have read much about him during the colonial era where he was in France most of the time squiring the ladies around.

Ella, you may just be right. I have a sneaky feeling that perhaps one or two of these segments just might be repeats from the companion program C-Span 2, or their Booknotes, which I watch occasionally. Well, even so, it's an interesting subject. I'm anxious to get on to the more modern writers. Stay with us!

Lorrie

This is just a reminder to everyone to be sure to tune in on C-Span Monday morning at 9:00 ET to watch the next segment of Great Writers on C-Span. And remember, if you miss it, it will be repeated on Friday night at 8:00!

Lorrie

What a ditz I am. I programed it for time but neglected to program cpan channel. I left it on 3 instead, oh dear. I'll have to catch it on Friday.

ALF, I think that's why they reprogrammed it.

I watched this morning's sketch of Benjamin Franklin, and I learned a lot. One interesting thing I noted was that Ben had promised to marry his wife before he left for England the first time, but then completely forgot about her while he was there. Deborah, the woman whom he abandonded, then married a "poor" fellow, and had two children by him. She later left him after discovering that he was a polygamist.

When Benjamin returned to Philadelphia later, he again took up with Deborah, and had her and her children move into his home as his common-law-wife. From what I can see, they never did go through a marriage ceremony, probably because she was still legally married to the polygamist. Who knows?

Benjamin also had an illegitimate son, William, whom he raised from birth, and never divulged the name of the son's birth mother, although many people thought perhaps it was Deborah.

WELL! For someone who came from a strait-laced religious community and who often published the benefits of a decorous and sanctified life, our Founding Father had quite a personal history! Also, in French circles, when he was there, Franklin was known as quite a ladies' man, and at that time he was even in his 70's!

BIOGRAPHY

Lorrie

Lorrie, I am so excited about these programs. I missed Ben Franklin this morning. So, I will have to remember to tune in on Friday night. I can get my husband to tape it for me if I fall asleep.

HATS

THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION

Hats, if I didn't tape it, I would never remember, either. Besides, it gives one the opportunity to watch the program at a more convenient time, perhaps..

Actually, I saw this thing begin with a sinking heart. Oh no, I thoought. What a bore this is going to be! But once you get into it, you soon discover all kinds of things about these people. Things that make them seem all too real.

Be sure to tape it Friday. One good thing, this is a really leisurely-paced discussion!

Lorrie

I saw maybe 15 minutes of the whole program Monday. I'd had a rough Sunday night, pain wise, so I slept right through the 8 o'clock beginning. Then, after rushing to get orange juice for me and cat food for Mr. Loud Meows (I'm coming, I'm coming), I only saw a short section of it when my son called from Alabama. He's struggling with Major transition stuff (divorce, moving to Austin...Yay!!, depression), so I didn't say, look, could we cry about this later? So, I will definitely watch on Friday.

betty

Betty, you Sweetie, and Hats! Hey, don't worry too too much about catching this program later. To tell the truth, I seem to get more out of this by clicking on the links--for some reason those darn "talking heads" make my eyes glaze over. So much of this reminds me of stuff we had in school, too.

Still, I'm looking forward to hearing about Thomas Paine. I don't remember too much about what we learned about him. Talk to you all later!

Lorrie

Lorrie, thanks for your post to the History Book Forum telling us of this discussion. I'll try to catch the C-Span program next Monday morning. Is this a C-Span series? If so who are some of the other characters that will be discussed?

HAROLD!! It's so good to hear from you! In the heading up above, just click on to the"Great American Writers on C-Span" and it will take you to the page giving out all the information we need about this series. I have found that using all the myriad links we're given in these discussions is very helpful, and I've gotten some pretty interesting data about early American writers already.

Monday's program, at 9:00 ET, will be live, also, and if you like, you will be able to participate online. They will be discussing Thomas Paine, and I'm anxious to see that one, because in my case, our teachers sort of skipped over this man. The whole series is ongoing---every Monday up until December, with a different subject each week. And with a repeat telecast every Friday evening. Come join us, I'd like to read your reactions!

Lorrie

TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT, RIGHT??? I will try to remember.

HATS

Has anyone read "The Autobiography of Ben Franklin?" Would someone like to talk about it?

Did he set specific goals about "How to Live?" I am talking about character choices.

HATS

Hats: Yes, tonight at 8:00 ET they will retelecast the Benjamin Franklin episode on C-Span. I read a fairly amusing biography (see Post #21) about Franklin. but I regret to say I have never read his "Autobiography" except for little snatches here and there. I understand, however, that in that autobiography Franklin gives all kinds of advice on how to live a good life, etc.

Comments later, we hope?

AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF BEN FRANKLIN

Lorrie

Thanks for the link, Lorrie.

HATS

Lorrie, I started looking at Ben Franklin today. It is interesting, but I did not finish. It is very lonnnnnnnnng.

I did not know Franklin and his son, William shared different viewpoints during the Revolutionary War. William remained a Loyalist, and Ben F. took the side of the soon to be Americans.

HATS

Hats: Yes, the length of this piece was one that made my eyes glaze over at times.

Yes, the fact that Franklin's son didn't share his views was interesting, and i thought the whole story on Ben Franklin's later days in Paris was really interesting. I had always thought this scene was Jefferson's bailiwick, but apparently they shared that site.

I really am looking forward to Monday's segment. We had very little knowledge of Thomas Paine when I was in school, and I wonder now if it was because I was taught at a parochial school, and I have now discovered how hard Paine was on the clergy in his writing, particularly "Age of Reason." That would account for why the nuns sort of glossed that over in History class.

Lorrie

Lorrie, I am looking forward to learning more about Paine too. All I really know is that he wrote "Common Sense."

HATS

Boy, I am really enjoying this program. I am still looking at my tape about Franklin. I do have a question.

Franklin did not have his son inoculated for smallpox. That surprised me. He was so progressive in his thinking. Anyway, his son died at four years old.

Does anyone know why Franklin did not have his son inoculated?

HATS

The AP News had an article in yesterday's NY TIMES about the bones of Thomas Paine -- they are apparently scattered over the world -- in buttons in England, a rib in France, and the skull in Australia. The community of New Rochelle, NY would like to see them gathered and returned to the place that claims him. You can find the article by running a Thomas Paine search on the NYT home page.

HATS: I like your enthusiasm! I couldn't find anything about Franklin's refusal to have his son inoculated!

PEDLN: What a fascinating thought! There was something else I found about the relationship between Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine.

Apparently they were friends, having met in England, I believe. It seems that Ben Franklin was appalled when Thomas Paine wrote "The Age of Reason" that caused so much controversy, and wrote Paine to burn it. Here's his letter:

Benjamin Franklin To Thomas Paine Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine maintained a friendship throughout the Revolutionary age. In fact, many believed that Franklin had authored Paine's Common Sense. When a concerned Franklin read the first draft of Paine'sAge of Reason in 1785, he urged Paine to burn it before anyone else read it. This was Franklin's advice: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For, without the belief of a Providence that takes cognisance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion that, though your reasons are subtle, and may prevail with some readers, you will not succeed so as to change the general sentiments of mankind on that subject, and the consequence of printing this piece will be, a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits against the wind spits in his own face. But were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? You yourself may find it easy to live a virtuous life, without the assistance afforded by religion; you having a clear perception of the advantage of virtue, and the disadvantages of vice, and possessing a strength of resolution sufficient to enable you to resist common temptations. But think how great a portion of mankind consists of weak and ignorant men and women, and of inexperienced, inconsiderate youth of both sexes, who have need of the motives of religion to restrain them from vice, to support their virtue, and retain them in the practice of it till it becomes habitual, which is the great point for its security. And perhaps you are indebted to her originally, that is to your religious education, for the habits of virtue upon which you now justly value yourself. You might easily display your excellent talents of reasoning upon a less hazardous subject, and thereby obtain a rank with our most distinguished authors. For among us it is not necessary, as among the Hottentots, that a youth, to be raised into the company of men, should prove his manhood by beating his mother.

I would advise you, therefore, not to attempt unchaining the tiger, but to burn this piece before it is seen by any other person, whereby you will save yourself a great deal of mortification by the enemies it may raise against you, and perhaps a great deal of regret and repentance. If men are so wicked with religion,what would they be if without it?"

Lorrie

Lorrie, I found a link that tells about the smallpox inoculation: Here it is:

http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/autobiography/page47.htm

Lorrie, I did not know how to make it a clickable link.

HATS

Thank you, Hats! I found the link okay, but it still doesn't tell us why Ben didn't have his son inoculated. It does say he regretted it terribly, though.

Everybody, don't forget tomorrow morning at 9:00 ET on C-Span! I hope everybody set their clocks ahead today.

Lorrie

Thank you for clickable, Lorrie. I will have to catch up on all the posts.

I am looking forward to Thomas Paine.

HATS

Did anyone see that riveting piece on Thomas Paine on C-Span this morning? I thought it was much more interesting than the previous writers. Here is an impassioned essay written by Thomas A. Edison in 1925, in which he vehemently supports Thomas Paine:

The Philosophy of Thomas Paine

Lorrie

Damn! I forgot it Lorrie, I must set the VCR for Friday night.

Lorrie, I just started my tape on Thomas Paine tonight. Like you said, it is very interesting. I want to read the piece you have given us by Thomas Edison so I need to get started.

HATS

In those early days, if all the clergy and church hierarchies could have had their way, all traces of Thomas Paine would have been obliterated. And when it comes to what happened to his remains, there is a load of interesting information:

Since Paine had criticized the Christian religion so openly in his book The Age of Reason, his name had been wiped almost completely from the history books even though he had played such an important role in the American and French revolution.

. On September 29, 1974, Paine's cottage was dedicated as a national historical landmark. It is safe to say that the contributions of Thomas Paine are going to be remembered now despite his criticism of Christianity, and despite the best efforts of the churches to hide him in obscurity and infamy.

Thomas Paine died in 1809. He was buried in New Rochelle, New York where he had spent the final years of his life.

Ten years later, a man by the name of William Cobbett exhumed the remains with the intention of burying Paine in England. He did not have an official mandate to do so. En route, the remains were lost. The search for the rest of his remains is quite interesting. More about that later.

Lorrie

Lorrie, it seems that Thomas Paine is misjudged in history. From what I understood on t.v. he believed in God. He just did not believe in organized religion.

Did you get the same understanding?

HATS

Absolutely, Hats! I'm afraid everyone at the time misunderstood his actual beliefs something terrible. He was not an atheist, as so many of his detractors labeled him, he was a Deist. He just didn't believe In organized religion, and I'm not sure, but I think he rejected the idea of Jesus Christ.

I often wondered why, when I was in American History classes, that we had so little mention of Thomas Paine. I think now it was because the fact that I was in a parochial school and we used their approved text books. Could be.

This is a marvelous article on how they are trying to "rehabilitate" Paine:

http://www.thomas-paine.com/tpnha/track.html

Lorrie, I am hoping that the Thomas Paine Society will be able to retrieve his bones. Those bones are all over the place.

HATS

Hi All,

Someone just attacked the Liberty Bell with a small hammer. The person who hit the bell was a part of the tour group.

Since this series, I feel really patriotic.

HATS

Hats, I don't know what I'd do in here without your quips! Love your sense of humor! Yes, it seems as though we should be doing this on the 4th of July, doesn't it? Hahaha

Lorrie

Lorrie, your right. The Fourth would have been wonderful.

HATS

Hi Everyone,

Saturday night I finished Thomas Paine. I am looking forward to Madison and Jefferson.

HATS

Well, I finished watching most of "Thomas Jefferson and James Madison," this morning, and it was all I could do to stay awake! With the exception of showing their actual houses and a few significant facts, I'm afraid I found the program a little repetetive. I'm sure there are many others out there who feel this part is fascinating, but I have a feeling right now that I am going to just lurk until we get on to some more recent American writers. However, if anyone wants a true in-depth analysis of our original Constitution and how it was all put together, this whole program will be repeated Friday evening.

Lorrie

I am looking forward to "Lewis and Clark." That should be interesting.

HATS

On Today show last week, Matt spoke to the author of "Undaunting Courage." I might have the title wrong, but anyway, he spoke about how much the Missouri River has changed.

HATS

Hats: I didn't think this would have much that we hadn't learned in school, but I'm finding lots of facts about this whole expedition that are fascinating. For instance, their reception was not always sweetness and roses, as the host is telling us.

I missed a lot of it this morning, but I will recap it Friday on the reun.

Lorrie

I was able to watch bits and pieces of the whole presentation on Lewis and Clark Monday....

I was able to watch bits and pieces of the whole presentation on Lewis and Clark Monday....my son was walking in and out, phone to ear, doing laundry, then other things. He was busy but also talkative, so we must have had 10 or so small conversations as I watched. I couldn't quit watching, however, because the Lewis and Clark "fort" on the Oregon coast from which the series was broadcast live, is about 18 miles north of my cottage of 5 years, through 1999. Homesick big time for that area, I oohed and awwed, said hello to the trees.

I enjoyed the parts of the program I was able to see. Even the live phone calls didn't bother me as they had previously, or maybe they happened to be better questions this week.

The old, faded maps shown (at the fort museum and ??) were absolutely beautiful, such detail and even strangeness of shape...love those old maps. I could look at old maps for hours.

Good information throughout the program. The answer to a caller's question about life lost to "hostile" Indians was answered....none of Lewis and Clark's large group died at the hands of "hostile" Indians, but two Indians died from hostility from the Lewis and Clark group.

Even though this series still feels geared to high school students (lesson plans available to teachers, too), I do like seeing the historical settings and listening to some of the very qualified guests. I was thinking of the criticism often heard about history...how dry it is. This format, live and interactive, is terrific for learning.

Right, Betty, whenever I think of some of those eyes-glazed-over American History sessions, I never realized that what had bored me to tears could actually be entertaining.

As to the loss of life in the fort by members of the expedition, none, and to the "hostile" Indians, two, maybe someone there should have explained to Lewis and Clark and their friends about casinos.

Personally, I'm looking forward a little more to the contemporary writers, Why, I'm not sure. They may not be half so interesting.

Lorrie

This episode about James Fennimore Cooper was really quite interesting. At the time Cooper's books were published, people in this new country were definiely ready for books about our own patriots and frontiersmen, and the Leatherstocking Tales and all the adventures of Natty Bumppo were more than welcome.

Has anyone else noticed how strong an influence the Quakers had with these early writers? Cooper was one, also.

He was also incorrect in depicting the Huron tribe as bloodthirsty and warlike. Most historians agree that that particular tribe was not as menacing as Cooper depicted them in Last of the Mohicans.

Lorrie

I hope everyone had the good sense to tune in this morning's showing of Great American Writers. I saw the early part, but then I had brains enough to tape the rest, so will play it later. This is an interesting segment, to say the least. I've always had admiration for the writings of Thoreau, and his whole "quiet desperation thing."

Lorrie

I watched about half or more, Lorrie, and Thoreau-ly enjoyed it. Pun intended...because I learned that Thoreau's name is pronounced just like the word thorough...with emphasis on the first syllable.

The setting was wonderful. Waldon Pond is beautiful. I might have chosen something even further from town than Thoreau did. Most people think he had little contact with folks in town, which was not the case, or that his homemade cabin was in deep wilderness, which it was not.

Wish I had written down the line that appealed to me from Emerson's Civil Disobedience. Something about equating "being a man" with questioning norms, or being a nonconformist. I need to go find it.

I hope schools are taking advantage of this series....there is something for all ages. The website is a little meatier than the televised programs, but there is enough offered to invest the time.

Wasn't that a wonderful segment on Thoreau and Emaerson? In my mind's eye, Walden Pond looked very similar to what we actually saw, although I hadn't realized that little house was so small, or that close to town. Apparently Thoreau wasn't quite the hermit so many people had thought him--he went to town often, and was seen on many occasions.

I had never read much of Emerson, but on looking these references over, I was struck by this remark, from an early essay of his.:

'Man,' he writes in his first book "Nature" (1836) is the dwarf of himself.' Along with these vast ambitions, however, lies a dire portrait of humankind's current condition: 'Men in the world of today are bugs or spawn, and are called "the mass" and "the herd".

Lorrie

Well, I'm very much afraid that I won't be watching this wonderful program any more on TV, I don't get C-Span any more, but I will be peeking in on the website. Has anyone else been following? Betty? Or does this remind you too much of teaching days?

Lorrie

Dr. Bill Bright, Campus Crusade for Christ was an inspirational person to get introduced to.