Horror ~ 8/99 Export

Ginny: I haven't seen the new Stephen King book yet. But dracula by Bram Stoker has to be one of my all time horror favorites. You can tell how much I enjoy a book by how many illustrations I do for it. I do these solely for my own pleasure, and did a lot for Dracula. Frankenstein is another good one. And how about Poe? The House of Usher, and his short stories?

Is the theme of modern horror different from that in the old? I think the main theme in any horror story is the battle between good and evil. Secondary in the older horror stories is the theme of man usurping the role of God,such as when Frankenstein creates his "man"; or Dracula who has inherited or found a way to cheat death. The modern horror stories have the theme of the little man overcoming tremendous odds. Both King and Koontz are very good at that type of story.

There are so many things to discuss...vampires for one; there are quite a few different types in horror literature.

Jackie: who knows, maybe we'll get you interested LOL. What type of work did you do for the private detective? I worked for a detective agency too in my youth. I trailed people and found out things about them. Was good at it too. Got to know some pretty shady characters that way, including a very nice gentleman who was of all things a "hit" man. Yes I have had an adventurous life, but only for a short while.

Nellie

Nellie,

Thanks for starting this discussion. While I can't admit to being a big fan of horror books, have read a couple of the Dean Koontz books a long while ago and did enjoy them. I really have never been able to read Stephen King and don't even like to see the movies made of his books. I have always wondered how the author could come up with some of these really wierd things.

I will also be lurking (which on the Internet has a whole different meaning than it does outside the Internet).

Larry

Larry: you are most welcome to lurk. I find that while I like to read King's books, I don't care for the movies made from them for the most part. I did like the mini-series made from Salem's Lot, and the more recent one made from The Shining.

King's The Shining is IMO one of his spookiest. After reading some of the scenes that take place in the hotel, especially the ones in the bathroom...well your own bathroom will scare you at that point. But what draws me into King's books is the characters; he gets you to care for them, and care what happens to them; which makes the dangers they find themselves in all the more exciting.

In general, is it important that there be sympathetic heroes or heroinnes in a horror story? To me it is not the "horror" per se that is important, but the characters and the situation they are in and how they handle it.

Nellie

Nellie: While I may no longer read Stephen King or Ann Rice, I may be reading horror and not know it. How is horror defined, other than the chills criterion? I do read some fantasy, in addition to SF, mysteries, etc. Would Charles de Lint's work be horror?

I totally agree with Nellie's assessment of Stephen King and his characters. I remember the first story of his I read, something about a father and son in a supermarket, but everytime somebody went outside they were killed or vaporized and it was so REAL!!

Yes, that Shining is almost impossible to read without a million lights on, it's simply scary! I got as far in the movie as the opening scenes where the mother is washing dishes at the sink and the little boy says something in this....was it a deep voice? THAT was it, up and out of the theater.

You know Stephen King hated Jack Nicholson's portrayal of the character, said he looked too spooky to start with when the whole premise was that a normal man had gone insane. I do agree Jack Nicholson looks spooky, too. Something about him

I think one of King's best books was the one about the vampire in the town? Can't remember the title. THAT thing is so scary you can't read it alone but you also can't put it down.

In Frankenstein the reader really cares about the monster and feels sorry for him. I think I'll nominate it for the GB, since there's so much going on with cloning etc.

So I'd say that character is important, but then what makes it HORROR instead of a love story or historical piece is something it will be fun to hear opinions on.

Ginny

Hi:This is a very interesting subject.It lends itself to some speculation,in particular,is "terror" the same as "horror"?I think of horror as more graphic violence sort of blood and slash.But "terror",now that's delicious,especially when the little hairs on the back of your neck stand up.I'm not much for vampires,personally they turn me off (Although.I loved reading Dracula). Now, Poe,that's great terror,I remember burrowing under the covers after finishing "A Cask Of Amondillado". I'm somewhat fond of this genre in film,but I suppose that's another discussion,but I would recommend an old British, Black & White film titled "Dead of Night".Also,anyone interested in horror books might enjoy a book called "Dark Carnival" by David J. Skal and Elias Savada. It's biography of Tod Browning,who was the director of Dracula with Bela Lugosi and also the director of Freaks and he did a lot of work with Lon Chaney Sr. I'll look forward to the postings on this site.

Here I am, reading Stephen King again. Last one I read was Firestarter. Some one at work gave me Rose Madder. It is tough reading about Rose's husband. And that mysterious painting! How did those crickets and the clover blossoms get into the backing of the painting? How is the scope of the picture expanding without losing any of the details? Why must innocent victims die so horrorificly? (Is that a word?)

Welcome to Ed and tell us more about the movie aspects of horror. Is there a difference between horror and terror? The latter seems to me to inspire more fear and the former disgust. Most books termed horror are a mixture of the two, they can have passages that make you feel disgust, unease at what is happening, and passages that inspire fear.

Ginny: Salem's Lot is the one with the vampires living in the old house and taking over the town. Another King book I enjoyed was The Tommyknockers where they find the alien ship buried underground.

Jackie: I haven't read many De Lindt as yet but yes his writing could be thought of as horror in a way. And you are reading a King book I have yet to get around to.

Has anyone ever read any of the Michael Slade books? I'm reading the newest Primal Scream. All the books involve the same characters a special force of the RCMP and all the stories have their main setting in Canada. Since Michael Slade is the pseudonym for two criminal lawyers, I wonder how much of their fiction is based on true life cases?

I've been away a while and am glad to be back, Nellie

Last night I watched Boris Karloff in "The Mummy" on television, would that be horror? That old black and white film really had me going! You note the strange, what I think of kinescope type of sound? The high class tinny British accents, the hokey sets, the tremendous effort they made in some of the scenes, but the MAIN plot was Inhotep's desire to reunite with his loved one...it was good.

There were a lot of threats, but no blood, "murders" but no, they were only stunned!

Yes, Nellie, Salem's Lot,. Now that is a very well written book.

I will be intersted in what definitions you all come up with on "thriller" and "horror," as that one last night sort of did both?

Ginny

I watch Night of the Living Dead, the original with the 50's cars, and was scared out of my gourd!. That was truly horror. Have finished Rose Madder. I was full of gore; Unfortunately my disbelief was never fully suspended. Funny, I can believe in ESP between species, like Pern's dragons and the dragonriders, but Rose Madder didn't hook my emotions enough.

A definition of horror: a book or movie that has you afraid to turn off the lights after you finish it. Usually contains elements of the supernatural such as ghosts or vampires; also can contain lots of blood and guts.

Definition of thriller: a book you can't put down; which has exciting things in it but not necesarily blood and guts or even much violence. I consider the Robert Ludlum books thrillers. You can have spy thrillers, or my favorite type the medical thriller such as those written by Robin Cook or Michael Palmer.

Those are my own defintions and I don't know how right they are. Interesting that you also need suspension of disbelief to really enjoy horror, just like you need to for reading SF and fantasy. Perhaps that is why the same people who like SF tend to like horror?

Nellie

I am a great Stephan King fan,too. What an imagination that man has to write so many books with so many different topics. I especially liked The Stand and the only book I ever read by anyone that truly frightened me, The Shining (because people insane scare me to death). I also really liked The Talisman It was a very hard book to get into but once you were there, you can't put it down. For suspense, try Cujo. Almost forgot that the topic is Horror. I agree with Ed that the Master was Poe. Having read him when I was a lot younger, he could make you tremble in your boots!

Lovecraft is another good horror writer of the old school; his Culthu mythos books are still some of the best. Of Poe's stories the Pit and the Pendulum is one that always gets to me.

Since we sooner or later do favorite books: here are my 5 favorite Stephen King books: The Shining, The Stand, The Tommyknockers, Salem's Lot, and Cujo. I also like the Dark Tower series a lot.

Nellie

So, to have horror we need to have something which shocks us or contains something of the supernatural, while to be a thriller we just need suspense? I think those are pretty good guidelines.

So a book of horror might not be thrilling? In the case of Dracula for instance, that would be??? horror, as it's got a vampire, but not thrilling.

How would we classify the newest Stephen King? Bag of Bones ? And what of his book about Pet Cemetery which I think he spelled differently?

I love Frankenstein and Dracula both, for their writing and their themes, which focus not on the surreal characters, a monster, and a vampire, but on human emotion.

If you try to identify the themes of horror, you see some recurring ideas? For instance, in Frankenstein and Dracula the idea of immortality is presented? Also in Pet Cemetery ?

Thinner which I absolutely could NOT put down, is about a curse, but it's supernatural, too. Where would we put that one?

The Picture of Dorian Grey? Supernatural elements, immortality. Where would IT go?

Have never really thought about horror as a particular form of literature, this is fun.

Salem's Lot is about immortality, another vampire.

Is there another recurring theme in horror that you have noticed that I have missed?

Ginny

Ginny: Interesting ideas! But I think every horror book also has suspense in it too. Dracula certainly does. Are there themes in horror? I think so too and most seem to be based on the supernatural. Certainly most of King's books seem to have that aspect to them. But Koontz who writes equally good horror has more the theme of human evil. I would see the very basic theme of any horror story as the battle between good and evil. And then there are subthemes such as the supernatural aspect, and evil things done by humans.

What I find interesting is that the vampire is such a basic horror character. I wonder why? Perhaps it is the idea of gaining immortality at the expense of another's life that both fascinates and repels us at the same time. I think that is the essence of good horror; the evil must both fascinate us, draw us into to it, and repel us; a good horror story reveals to us our own nature, and forces us to face what we would really like to keep hidden.

Nellie

An excellent book on the nature and meaning of horror is Danse Macabre by Stephen King. I just started reading it again and one of the things he says is that horror literature and movies work on two levels: one is the more simple gross-out level with the blood and guts; the other is a deeper level which seeks out the phobias we have hidden deep inside us. The best horror has none of the first level but all of the second level; and it then becomes a literary art form.

I will be sharing more from this book as I continue reading...

Nellie

Nellie, is that a new one? Why doesn't it ring a bell? What's it about?

Ginny

Ginny: Danse Macabre is probably not familiar to you because it is not one of King's novels but a book about horror in literature and film that he was asked to write. The copy I have is a Berkley trade paperback published in 1982 and the ISBN number is: ISBN 0-425-05345-8 just in case you want to find it at the library. King not only knows how to write horror stories very well, but when you read this book, you come to realize that he has a deep understanding of the subject. And that is perhaps why his tales of horror are so well done.

"All tales of horror can be divided into two groups: those in which the horror results from an act of free and conscious will -a conscious decision to do evil- and those in which the horror is predestinate, coming from outside like a stroke of lightning." From Danse Macabre by Stephen King. Page 71

It would be interesting to see into which of those two categories King's own stories belong; as well as other stories of horror by other writers.

Nellie

Nellie, how interesting, I've ordered it from our Bookstore, am interested in the whole concept of horror vs. terror vs. suspense vs. thrillers.

I looked up "horror" in my little paperback dictionary and found "the strong feeling caused by something frightful or shocking."

That's interesting, can't wait for the book to come, nor for his Bag of Bones to come out in paperback.

Ginny

Yes I'm waiting for Bag O Bones in paperback too. I have neither the money nor the room for hardcovers

King says an interesting thing in Danse Macabre, and that is that horror movies and literature increases in popularity in times of uncertainty. I think that is true because horror movies do seem to be very popular again; more so than they have been. And there seem to be a lot more titles in the horror section in the bookstore too. Even TV reflects this trend with shows like Millenium, X-Files, and Brimstone which debuts this Friday. He also says that fictional horror helps us to cope with the real horrors that can exist in life.

Nellie

I JUST got it, Nellie, boy that was fast from our Bookstore. Wow, it looks marvelous, even IF his eyes are red on the cover!!

I don't know that we've ever read a book of criticism here in the books, but I'm going to now. So many good books, so little time. How afar ahead of me are you?

Ginny

Ginny: I'm reading it somewhat slowly, so I'm in chapter 3 at the moment. And what a neat idea to go through it together. LOL pretty soon we'll have a horror book discussion going on Danse Macabre without ever officially setting it up.

Am also reading Primal Scream by Michael Slade. Lots of gross out stuff in this book, but also good suspense. And I like that he blends fictional horror with accounts of real life horrors. I wonder if this would tend to fictionalize the true horrors? Or perhaps make the fictional horrors seem more true and real?

Nellie

Nellie, that's a good question, am racing to catch up, I love the way he writes. I would think offhand that the real horror would be worse than the fictional one, as truth is always stranger than fiction.

This is fun,

Ginny

Ginny: I haven't gotten much further in Danse Macabre because I've been making changes on my Web pages; just little cosmetic ones. I'm using all my own little graphics now instead of borrowed ones.

I'm thinking that real life horror can be all the more horrible because it can be so hidden from our view. Like the fellow who is arrested for beating his wife and abusing his kids; and all the neighbours say: " he was such a nice guy. Always ready to help. We just didn't know." And that is the true horror "that we just didn't know".

Which leads me to another question. Does reading horror stories and watching horror on TV or in movies, make a person more sensitive, more aware of real horror?

And you are right...this is fun!

Nellie

Nellie: The things I read about, like the fellow who confessed to the police that he had killed women, and gave them a woman's breast, are more chilling to me after having read The Silence of the Lambs, for example. And, horrors like that make books more chilling. Frankenstein's monster does not seem real, even though we have the reality of transplanted body parts (that fellow in Australia who has someone else;s hand at the end of his are--two sets of fingerprints!) But Thomas Harris' s tells us that a man wears the skin of his victim--that's scarey.

I think the most frightening horror stories are those like Silence of the Lambs which could happen in real life; and if you consider people like Dahmer, or Gacy, have happened in real. Frankenstein is a scary read but we know that no one will ever bring a corpse to life (not anyone human anyways) nor will anyone ever create a living being out of dead parts. So for me that lessens the impact of the horror.

Nellie

Well, I'm up to Chapter IV of Dance Macabre and I absolutely love it, love it, LOVE IT!!

It's like a course in Literature, a little shaky in parts, but makes some wonderful points.

You didn't tell me it had photos of the old horror movies, too, Nellie, just LOVE it.

I was feeling pretty smug about all the authors mentioned, had read almost all of them with the exception of Dennis Etchison's The Dark Country until I got to Chapter III and he just hammered me with stuff I haven't read, so a pause is in order till I get some of them, but will slowly begin Chapter IV. It's too good to rush, isn't it?

He says a lot of provocative things: "I believe that we are all ultimately alone and that any deep and lasting human contact is nothing more nor less than a necessary illusion---Feelings of love and kindness, the ability to care and empathize, are all we know of the light. They are an effort to link and integrate; they are the emotions which bring us together, if not in fact then at least in a comforting illusion that makes the burden of mortality a little easier to bear."

What about THAT now??

He says "Horror, terror, fear, panic: these are the emotions which drive wedges between us, split us off from the crowd, and make us alone."

Now I HAVE seen the movie Donovan's Brain but have not read the book, have you? And he makes a wonderful case, with all his literary references, (The Hook, the Monkey's Paw, etc.) as to what horror IS, while at the same time telling us what it isn't. The three levels: "terror on top, horror below, and ....revulsion beneath."

But best of all is his explanation of the archtypes of horror: the Tarots of the literary genre: the Thing Without a Name, The Vampire, and the Werewolf. I loved his treatise on the three books Frankenstein, Dracula, and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and his exclusion of The Turn of the Screw and the possible fourth archtype: the Ghost.

Good good stuff. A little less plausible on the sexual references? A little strained, perhaps. I'd sign up for a class of his anytime.

The immortality thread in The Monkey's Paw and Frankenstein are what get me, the secret desire for immortality.

I love his take on horror providing "allegory and catharsis," because the creator of horror fiction is above all else an agent of the norm."

Do you agree with him that the reason horror appeals is that "monstosity....is a reaffirmation of the order we all crave as human beings....and let me further suggest that iis is not the physical or mental aberration in itself which horrifies us, but rather the lack of order which these aberrations seems to imply."

Fabulous stuff, Nellie, you have great taste! Now I've got a new list, starting with John Wyndham's The Chrysalids and there was one other he said that was "stupidly" out of print, have to look back.

Boy, this is a great read!!

Which of the three: Dracula, Frankenstein or Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde (I know you weren't moved by Frankenstein , which I liked best), did YOU prefer??

Ginny

I guess I'm hokked, will have to read this one, too.

Jackie, you'll love it, it's marvelous, we'll wait for you. I need to go get the books he's mentioned and read them, am slowly moving into Chapter 4, barely moving.

Ginny

But what do you think of his statements? About being alone??

Ginny

I'm only just starting chapter IV too, so we are poking along at the same rate. I like your idea of finding the books he mentions to read them. I have read them all at some point but could read them again. The Chrysalids by Wyndham is good and read some other titles by him too; I know I have read everything he wrote.

You and I pick up on the same quotes, I like that one about us being ultimately alone too. I think he is right in a way. Have you never had the feeling of being totally alone even though you were in a room full of people you like and love? I have. Love and kindness and empathy bring us together; horror and terror separate. I would think that horror and being terrified would drive us closer to others, because being close to others would make us feel safer. Or is it that when one person attacks us, or terrifies us we then distrust all others? That could be true. Just imagine if one day a young fellow grabbed your purse. You would have a healthy fear even of young fellows who really were no threath to you.

Which book do I like best of the three? I would rate them in this order: Dracula, Dr.Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and Frankenstein. Each book corresponds to one of the three main archetypes of horror literature. Dracula/vampire; Frankenstein/The Thing Without a Name; and Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde/The werewolf.

I'm not that sure about the sexual aspects either but there is one author who has a very good series out with a vampire as the central character, and her vampire is very sexual. It is the St.Germain series by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro. (Must reread these)

Nellie

Nellie: I love Yarbro, but haven't been able to find many of her books. Did you read the one about the two people fleeing from the Sacramento area? They are survivors of a plague, and seeking refuge, but are being pursued by bands of madmen. Some of her descriptions of their struggling through the snow and cold in the Sierra Nevada mountains lent new meaning to horror. She has also written about a Native American who gets involved with murders. (I thought you were talking about Ann Rice.) I shall look for these. Tell me, is it because you read such interesting books and can transmit those qualities when you describe them, or is it that I am a "copycat"? Who cares?

Jackie: yes I did read those books and now I'm trying hard to think of the titles of the books. Since you don't give titles either we must both be having the same problem, not recalling the name of the book LOL.

I'm thinking of what King says about children and horror; about everything being frightful to children. And then I thought of fairy tales in their unDisneyfied versions as they were told to children for hundreds of years; and how much horror there is in fairy tales. Just think of the story of Little Red Ridinghood. The wolf eating grandmother and taking her place, Red Ridinghood being eaten too, and being rescued by being cut out of the wolf. Pretty horrific stuff when you think on it.

And what King says about parents being so eager to let them know that Santa doesn't exist, made me think of our Hard Times discussion; because we have here the same attitude towards the things of fantasy. that fantasy and make-believe should be outgrown as fast as possible. Fantasy and horror go together as fairy tales show.

Nellie

Nellie, yes, that struck me, too, and he seems to think that the excitement of these fantasy worlds keeps the thing in the closet at bay?

Jeepers I hate it that I never really honed in on Santa, really from the first sort of didn't. Yet, I'm also not the person letting the tv do the baby sitting. Did not read Mother Goose, but sure did read everything else under the sun and both kids like Science Fiction, so, (doesn't he curl your hair when he says, well, sir or madam, I just MIGHT?) be talking about YOU?? Love the man.

My theory was that if you lie to a child about something as important as Santa Claus then what will the child think about other things you've espoused when he grows up? Seems a bit stupid now, but that was my thinking then, about 30 years ago.

Have never understood the popularity of Where The Wild Things Are, never liked it myself, and the children never seemed to care for it, wonder if that kind of thing makes more problems than it helps?

Ginny

Interesting thought I think that the creatures of Fantasy can keep the horrors away which also are parts of a child's fantasy world. And for adults do the imaginary horrors keep at bay the real horrors?

A bit more on Santa Claus: the lie is that he is real, not that he exists in the collective fantasy of the world. We never claim that Snow White, Cinderella, or Sleeping Beauty are real but we do claim that they exist in the world of Fantasy. And that world is as real to the child as the actual world we live in. Santa has been taken out of the world of Fantasy where he belongs into the real world; and that is why parents feel uneasy when they don't tell their children that Santa is not real. Another thing I find interesting is that Santa brings out a darker side of us all; the side that is greedy and grasping, that thinks only of me, myself, and I, and how much can I get; but never give a thought to others.

I haven't had a chance to read much farther in Danse Macabre; but hope to get at least a few pages read over the weekend.

NV

Library books are taking precedence over Danse Macabre for the nonce. I started reading a good spooky type of book by Charles Grant called Raven. It is about a small group of people in a country restaurant in winter who are terrorized by a mysterious stranger. First they see this very large raven flying around in the night, which is strange; and then they see the Stranger; somehow I think the raven and the man are related. Perhaps they are one and the same. The protagonist of the story are Neil MacClaren, an ex-cop, Julia SAnders the barmaid, Willie Ennin the chef, Hugh Davies, a talk show radio host, Ceil and Mandy, who claim to be Davies' sisters; Ken Havvick, the local richman's son, his fiancee Trish Avery; and Nester Brandt who is the first to get killed by the Dark Stranger.

Nellie

Ruth Rendell says that the Mystery Book Club choice for January 15, Ratking, is subtle horror! I myself am fascinated by the Stephen King, can't put it down! He has so MANY points, sometimes laugh out loud in bed at night!!

Ginny

Hi: I m enjoying the posts about horror and terror.Is there anything more terrifying than reality? And what is reality anyway? And is your reality the same as my reality?Is there a "dark side" to all of us?Is it conscience or fear that keeps this dark side in check? I keep wanting to discuss this in the Book Nook Chat Room, but no takers yet.How about horror and terror in "classic literature".Lots of questions,perhaps no answers,but it keeps the gray matter in shape.

Ed: That is a fantastic idea! We'll have our first Online book discussion about horror, when shall we have it? We'll give plenty of notice and go for it, you to Host??

Ginny: Want to write Stephen King and ask him??

Ginny: the last thing I have read in Danse Macabre is that we are all insane but most of us don't know it. That is quite something to ponder over, and I have quite a bit. I don't know if I agree with King on that one or not.

A chat with Stephen King. What an idea!

If you get a chance to find a copy of Charles Grant's Raven, do so. An excellent book. The horror is so subtle; there is no gross out type horror in this book. It is about the evil inside all of us; perhaps the "insanity" King speaks about; and how the small group of people, one by one, give into murderous urges.

An interesting thought about whether we all have the same reality. I have read that we may not even see the same thing in the same way. Each of us exists only in our own mind when all is said and done. I think our realities are in part shaped by the emotions that the things we see and hear elicit.

Nellie

Here is something from page 115 of Danse Macabre to think about:

"The thing is - and a pretty good thing for the human race, too, with such neato-keeno things to deal with as Dachau, Hiroshima, tht Children's Crusade, mass starvation in Cambodia, and what happened in Jonetown, Guyana - the human consciousness can deal with almost anything...which leaves the writer or director of the horror tale with a problem which is the psychological equivalent of inventing a faster-than-light space drive in the face of E=MC(squared)."

Are we actually hard to scare? He talks in this chapter about the "closed door" behind which could be anything we can imagine; but which when opened reveals something which is never quite as horrible as what we imagine.

And he points out a bit later that imagination is very important both for the writer of horror fiction and for the reader as well. That is so true. Don't you find yourself imagining yourself in the place of one of the characters in the story? I often do. It adds to the story, makes it more scary in a way.

Nellie

I have it--Danse Macabre, that is. Will be catching up to the rest of you soon.

Jackie: it will be nice to have another viewpoint to add to mine and Ginny's.

Nellie

Yes, good, Jackie, will give me an excuse to slow down. Actually the book slows down where I am, he's bogging down in horror theories. Or maybe I'm tired.

Either way, I'm still reeling over his suggestion that people who talk to themselves are crazy. I don't think that's true. Do you??

Ginny

Ginny: Talking to yourself is not crazy,it' a conversation with an intelligent person.What's the difference between between thinking about something & talking about it to yourself.Is the verbal process any different than the thought process?..Anyway,I don't know if you got my message about regretting not being able to get to NYC,because my wife had broken foot,it sounds like a great time was had by all & I look forward to being able to make future gatherings. Re: Post #41 in this category..I'd love to host a Book Nook Chat on horror,sometime after the holidays,on some dark & cold night,let's see if we can set it up. I got a very nice e-mail from Marcie Schwarz,it was very kind of you to do what you did.

I for one don't think people who talk to themselves are crazy; I disagree with him on that. I talk to my computer when it is not doing what I want...wonder if that counts as crazy behaviour? But isn't it true that when you meet up with someone on the street who is talking loudly with no one else around, that you automatically assume the person has (pardon me) a "few screws loose"?

Nellie

Ed, I did get it, and I do appreciate it. I am sorry about your wife's foot and definitely hope to see you at the next one, I do believe you'd love it, and we would love to meet you, too!! It does look like those who came in just for the day really enjoyed themselves, but with those rates at the Leo, it's a shame not to stay over and see at least one show!

Of course the Leo sold out in a heartbeat and I can see why, having stayed there. Must write them.

I have seen women in the grocery store talking to themselves, but the problem is that once you START, it's hard to STOP and you get used to it. You can pretend you're on the phone in the car and talking to the dogs on a walk, but in the store it does look a bit bizarre.

I agree with Ed, you're talking to an intelligent person!@!!

Ed the horror thing sounds great!! Let's see if we can get up some publicity for it, thanks so much for that!

Was reading in the King last night and on page 267 he says that, "It doesn't hurt to emphasize again that horror fiction is a cold touch in the midst of the familiar, and good horror fiction applies this cold touch with sudden, unexpected pressure."

He's about to cite two old favorites of mine, The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson, one of my favorite authors and one I wish we could do a continuing study of her works and the biography of her. Hubby doesn't come out very well in the bio. And the other is Anne Rivers Siddon's The House Next Door which has always been one of my all time favorites, even tho it IS x rated in spots, I guess. If you think you don't like her, you haven't read that thing. It's marvelous.

I must admit I was a bit startled by King's seeming waspishness toward Rod Serling, and his sort of attack on "The Twilight Zone," but I expect he's correct. He seems to have made quite a study of it, and I never like to argue with somebody who knows more than I on a subject,(which should render me speechless 99% of the time!)but I WAS surprised, as I remember it with fondness.

Ginny

I read Shirley Jackson's "The Haunting of Hill House" back in the 1950s and thought it the absolutely classic example of s ghost story. Then some years later I saw the movie made from it and felt really frightened afterwards to sleep with my hands outside the bed covers.

I think Shirley Jackson was a wonderful writer. Also enjoyed both the old Twilight Zone and the newer one that ran more recently. Have a collection of episodes from both on videotape.

Is anyone reading this familiar with the novels of Charles Williams? He was one of the "Inklings," a group that also included Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. His novels are unlike any others that I know of.

Ricki!! Welcome, Welcome!! What a joy it is to see you here, another Shirley Jackson fan. Have you read the Biography of her life? It wasn't what you would think, surprised me, anyway, after reading her comments on "The Lottery." Also have you read her Life Among the Savages or something like that, there are two of them and they are just hilarious and heartwarming.

I didn't buy the latest collection of hers, cobbled together by her children after her death. I'm sure they know better than I do what she'd have wanted.

Her mother was SO hard on her, all her life.

Hope you'll take a seat here or in any of our more than 360 folders on SeniorNet and stay a long long while. You have come to the right place!!

Ginny

I don't know Charles Williams, have you tried the Sci Fi discussion? Nellie Vrolyk there is very knowledgable on all types of imaginative fiction. What does Williams write about? Must go look him up.

Ginny

Ginny, there is one passage in particular in "Life Among the Savages" that has delighted me for years, where the parents and all the children and all the children's sleep companions moved from bed to bed during one night. It's hard to believe that the author of that is also the author of "The Haunting of Hill House," "The Lottery," etc.

Charles Williams died in 1945. I think most of his books were written during the 1930s and early 1940s, but they are truly timeless. Try to imagine a mixture of the supernatural, religion, science fiction--you really have to read them, and will still find them hard to describe. I think any that you can find will be enjoyable as well as unusual; my own favorites are "All Hallows Eve," "Descent Into Hell," "War in Heaven," and "Many Dimensions." Do let me know what you think of them if you can find and read them.

An interesting thought from Danse Macabre: that horror touches our phobic pressure points. There are things we all fear: death, dismemberment, being closed in, heights, and creatures of all kinds to name but a few. Don't you find horror stories that contain some aspect of what you fear most to be more scary? I have a book called The Dogs by Robert Calder which I find scarier than most because I have a fear of dogs. Yes I have a little dog, but strange dogs frighten me so much that the sight of one down the street will have me walking a block around; and when I go for my morning walk I have a "safe" route where I know there are no dogs.

Nellie

I'm still reading Danse Macabre, too, am at the part where he compares The Haunting of Hill House and The House Next Door . Even in this innocuous book King says things that keep you up at night, at least me!

I had forgotten quite a lot of Shirley Jackson's book, it might make a good book for discussion, I'm going to see if it's available still and if so nominate it for the BC Online, you all come, too.

When do you start,Nellie, she asked whiningly?

Ginny

Ginny: I read the Haunting of Hill House so long ago that I have forgotten most of it too. It would be a good one for the BC discussions; I would certainly join in.

When do I start on the course? Not until July. I have to wait that long, it will seem like forever. But they only take 30 people at a time, and during the interview the prof said he was going to cut that down to 20 or even only 15 people, so that there could be lots of one on one teaching. Each module in the course is being taught by experts in that module. When studying databases then database experts teach us and so on.

Nellie

Nellie, I nominated it, don't know if it will win, but it sure would be fun, and different!

July, and I have no clue about modules and stuff! This will be so exciting and then when you're thru, where will you apply it? In what area? Says the woman who knows nothing!

Ginny

Ginny: If The Haunting of Hill House is not selected we could always read it together and discuss it in an informal way here.

Part of the course consists of a 4 month paid internship with a company that usually will hire you full time. When the course is finished I will have a diploma in Information Technology, and will know Object Oriented Programming in a number of OOP languages; I will know about working with databases, setting up computer networks, more about the internet...and will most likely end up writing custom programs for whatever company I work for. If you want to know a bit more, look here Program in Object Oriented Software Technology and look at the curriculum. Then you'll know everything you wanted to know. I sneak a peek at it once in a while and get all excited just thinking of learning that.

Nellie

Well,we certainly could!! I just ordered another one he raves over the Finney about the Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and want to look at both of the movies again, only saw one. Stephen King is such a good writer and so enthusiastic that it makes you want to go buy them all and reread them.

I'm really in the mood for something different!

Ginny

DEAR GUSSIE!!! Er....I mean, Nellie! $12,000+ dollars?? Good grief!! And you're to be full time? And then at the conclusion of that you'll be off programming up a storm??

You know, of course, the entire thing is so far over my head it's beyond Greek, but it DOES look exciting! I can see excitement! I will vicariously enjoy every thrilling moment of your achievement!!

SO does this mean you'll be full time working when you conclude this?

I don't think very many people know how to do this, do they?

Ginny

Hi: Haven't been around for a while, my puter was sick. OK now. Barbara Hambly's series about vampires is interesting, although not especially horrorific. Those Who Hunt the Dark, I think. What do you think causes vampirism? It was always a given to me, get bitten by one and presto, you are one. Maybe not...

Jackie,we sure have missed you, you've been the object of frantic Lucia Tapes correspondence! Is your email up and running?

Ginny

GInny: Yes, I'm fully Internet functional, given my (lack of brain) handicap, of course. My son got as new CPU. Since my hard drive is small, he was going to install his old one in my MAC. The transplant didn't take (IDE vs. SCSI) but there were some things left over when he put it back together. To quote: hahahaha. So a trip to the MAC hospital was needed. I am happy to report that he is not the dunce it may sound like--those items are not used in this particular machine.

WEll, we're glad you're back we've missed you and Marge is about to write you, so all's well!

Ginny

Ginny: All those questions LOL. Yes it is lots of money and lucky for me that my own bank is involved in the project; they are providing interest free loans that don't have to be paid until after the course is finished. And if I apply the money I make during the internship and what I get back from the tax man, then I'll only have about $4,000 to pay back.

I will be learning full time and afterwards programming up a storm full time. I do have some programming experience so it is not totally new to me. Knowing how to program gives a great respect for the folks who write big complicated programs such as the Windows 95/98 that run our computers. True it doesn't always run as well as we would want but it is a wonder that the OS runs as well as it does on so many different machine configurations. I have a book on the Simcity 2000 game in which the maker of the game tells about programming it, and he states that 10% of the program code ran the game, and the other 90% of the code was to handle user error. And that goes for all programs, a lot of the code is related to how a program handles whatever errors you make.

And I'm getting miles away from horror...I just began rereading Brian Lumley's House of Doors because I read that he has a follow up to that one out soon.

Right now I'm in the chapter on horror on TV in Danse Macabre. King says there is little good horror on TV. I don't think that is as true now as it was when he wrote the book. I think Millenium is very good horror, and the X-Files certainly fit the category too. Have you ever watched either one?

Nellie

Shirley Jackson's Haunting of Hill House would be good for this discussion. Looking forward to it. Finished Barbara Hambly's Those Who Hunt The Night. She has taken a post-victorian professor of philology who is a retired spy, his MD wife, and mixed in vampires who are both revolting and charming. I didn't care much for Ann Rice's version of vampires. Hambly's are much more interesting. I recommend these two books.

This will be fun, also several did vote for The Haunting of Hill House in the BC Online so they may want to chat here too. Let's choose a good date at least a month away, it's no fun to have to push thru a book.

I'm so impressed with our Nellie, I can't even express my admiration!

Go, GIRL!!

Those look good, too, Jackie. One very NEAT thing about this folder is that I'm reading new stuff I've never read. I did see, of course, both movies of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and now my copy of that has come, thanks to Stephen King, and so I look forward to that, too.

I'm almost thru the King, keep falling asleep with it in the bed and finding it on the counterpane when I make the bed in the morning! hahahahah

Nellie: No, I truly don't watch TV any more since I now have this glowing BOX to look at, but will try to tape the Milennium one, it looks good. The kids watch X Files, which also looks good.....

Have you seen the new Star TRek? I will see IT this weekend, in an extravaganza of movie watching!

Ginny

I haven't seen the new Star trek movie yet and I usually wait for the video since I don't care too much for going alone to a movie.

I should gather up all my horror books and see what all I have. Quite a few that's for sure.

Do you remember some of the TV shows he mentions? Alfred Hitchcock Presents was a favorite around our house, and I recall watching Thriller too. And The Twilight Zone. I missed out on the original Outer Limits but do watch the new version on and off. I have a limited tolerance for TV; I only watch about two hours maximum a day. LOL this bright little box is much more fun, I can't talk back to the Tv and get an answer.

It will be nice to have a cheering section once I actually get going with the course.

Nellie

Nelie, Yes, I watched all of them! Now, The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson did NOT win the BC Online, tho tied for second, and so it's one we said we'd look at together, and there are several more people.

Let's give it a bit of time, tho, what do you think??

Yes, we'll cheer all the way, full of admiration, even tho we don't have a CLUE as to what you're doing!

I only lack a few pages now of the King.

Ginny

Ginny: there is no hurry with discussing The Haunting of Hill House. For one thing I either have to get a copy or find a copy I might have somewhere in a ton of books

and I like to do it in a very informal, relaxed way; a bit like we did the Stephen King Danse Macabre book. And you are getting ahead of me in that one; I think I try to read too many books at once LOL and then none of them get read. Usually I find one in the bunch that really catches my interest and then I read that one until it is finished. But sometimes I'm not sure just what I want to read and then I read one chapter in each of about six different books until I hit the one that says "I'm it!"

So last night I read the first chapter of House of Doors, and what an intrueging beginning; a castle that appears where no castle existed the day before and it has no windows and no doors, not only that, it grows. I would have read more but was getting too sleepy.

Nellie

Finished the Stephen King, marvelous book! Now let's just give a date for our meandering start for The Haunting of Hill House ? What about April 1??

or the Ides of March??

Nellie, how is the House of Doors? I've also got The Invasion of the Body Snatchers and all the Ira Levin books (thanks to Stephen King).

Ginny

Ever since discovering this folder I have been trying to remember where I put a 1980 book that I read just a few years ago, and today I finally found it. It's "The Girl in a Swing," by Richard Adams, and I fully agree with the quotation printed on the front cover of my paperback edition from the New York Times Book Review: "Beautiful, haunting, erotic love and an absolutely terrifying ghost story." It gets off to a long slow start, establishing the narrator as a thoroughly nice man, then it moves into a fiercely romantic love story punctuated with what the reader later recognizes as warnings of the horror to come, with which it ends. I recommend the book but definitely not the movie that was made from it.

Hello and welcome to RickiD; Girl on a Swing by Richard Adams is not one of his I've read before. Another one to add to my must read list.

Ginny: I see you have put Haunting of Hill House in the upcoming discussions list. It will be interesting to see what type of turn out we get.

The House of Doors is interesting in that it is a blending of horror and science fiction. The strange castle is really an alien machine that is studying the human race; and it was sent by an alien species called the Thone, one of whom Sith is disguised as a human named Bannerman.Sith is in line for the leadership of the Thone but he has competition and figures if he presents Earth as a place for the Thone to colonize he will win. He has one problem and that is the human race. Sith's people have one rule: no colonizing a planet with an intelligent indigenous species. Sith is in the process of "discrediting" the human race by testing a small number of them in his machine.

The people being tested are: Spencer Gill, a young man with special powers over machines; Jack Turnbull, a bodyguard/minder for David Anderson, who is with the Ministry of Defense; Angela Denholm, who was fleeing an abusive husband; Jean-Pierre Varre; Miles Clayborne; and Alec Haggie who was already inside the machine. And what a machine! It contains whole worlds and in each world is a House of Doors. Interesting!

For Stephen King fans: Next week the miniseries Storm of the Century will be showing on ABC Sunday, Monday, and Thursday (10pm mdt-my time) King wrote the story direct for TV and says it is the most frightening story he has ever written for film. It pushes the envelope as to what can be done on TV. I'm looking forwards to this one.

Nellie

Nellie: Larry put it up and I hope we do get a great turn out, then I think we need to read your House of Doors, it sounds fabulous.

This Stephen King TV one has a stranger who knows each person's inmost sins apparently, another "exposure" of the beast within King talked about in his book. I'm so glad I read that and would NOT have had it not been for you.

Ginny

I find the King TV story Storm of the Century very well done. The fellow who knows all about the sins folks have done is a real spooky chracter, specially when he is carrying out actions in his jail cell and others are doing them in real like they are his puppets. The last installment is tonight and I can't wait to see how it ends.

House of Doors would be interesting to discuss. Or how about one of Stephen King's books? Lots of choices there.

Nellie

IT WAS ON??? IT WASN'T, HERE!! I can't believe it was on~ will know more tonight, if it's episode I or III~! I can't believe I missed it, I looked everywhere for it in the listings Sunday!

Yes, let's do House of Doors and then the Bag of Bones thing!

Ginny

I picked up Hill House at the library; they don't have House of Doors, but do list other Lumley books. I can't find Danse Macabre! Brought it home, but someone must have picked it up, because it has disappeared. Do you suppose one of the cats is reading it?

Talk about chills! I went to the library, which didn't have House of Doors in its online catalog, and there it was, right on the shelf! Loved it; it was a romp. Thanks, Nellie.

I ordered House of Doors and am looking forward to it!

Ginny

Hello Ginny and Jackie: I'm glad you are or will -hopefully- enjoy House of Doors. And I found a copy of The Haunting of Hill House in the bookstore, so I'm all set for the discussion.

Don't want to make too long a post just in case it disappears. When that message about the corrupted database disappears, I'll know it is safe to let loose. It is no use my saving the posts because I forget I have them and when things are back to normal there will be no place to put it because the conversation continues on.

Nellie

Nellie, Do you want a separate discussion for House of Doors and if so when will the discussion begin?

Larry

Good GRIEF, my copy of House of Doors arrived and it would scare Hulk Hogan! WoW~~~

So Nellie, how will we take the Haunting? In other words, should we have it read before April 1 or read it along then??

Ginny

Ginny: I like the idea of us all reading Haunting as we go along but it won't hurt if we read ahead. I find I discover new things in a book when I read it the second time around. Maybe that is because the first time I'm dashing along wanting to know what happens next and the second time I can linger and enjoy the scenery of the book.

And we should do one book at a time, don't you think?

Nellie

Yes, it suits me to read along slowly very well~ and YES please one at a time!!

Would House of Doors make a good present for a young man? Do you think??

Ginny

I thought House of Doors was great fun.

Ginny: House of Doors could make a nice present for a young man if he likes that type of literature. And don't forget there is a second book coming out which will continue the story.

And if you get a chance take a look at Lumley's Necroscope series which begins with The Necroscope. I enjoyed the books very much, nice and creepy.

Nellie

Dead and Buried, by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro. A novelization of a movie, circa 1980. Never saw the movie, loved this book. Didn't give me nightmares, but I never know what was coming next.

I did give the book, my own copy, and now have ordered another!

So when we start the Haunting of Hill House, how much shall we take at once?

Ginny

Ginny: How much we do at once of Hill House would depend on how fast or slow we want to go. I would tend to go one chapter at a time, but as to how much time to give a chapter, I couldn't say. I have been reading ahead some and it is very good right from the start. There should be lots of good discussion for this book.

Jackie: Dead and Buried, yes I have that one too. And have you ever read her St.Germain series with the very different vampire? Another good horror book by the same author is Sins of Omission.

I dug up my Needful Things by King because I want to see if the proprietor of the store in that story is the same person who becomes Linoge in Storm of the Century; they seem so alike to me in the power to know about people and in the way they control things.

Nellie

Nellie, great, a chapter at a time, great, that way we can read along and do the others, too, if we like. Will mail out a note for it soon!

Ginny

Ginny: how long should we take on a chapter? A week? Or just take how ever long it takes us? I like the how ever long it takes personally because of the other books that are also being read. Not long before we begin...I've been sneaking ahead of course; but just a little bit.

Nellie

Let's do the however one! I can't read too far ahead or I'll have to reread so I like to just natter along and keep up with everybody else. I'll follow your lead, let's take it slow.

Ginny

I must admit, however, to having read the book several times years ago, but I find now I have a different perspective on things, so "everything old is new again."

Ginny

Ginny: I have a question I suddenly thought of: Are we discussing Hill House here, or in its own section?

I can't remember reading the book before, though the name was very familiar.

Two good writers who write in the horror vein are Robert McCammon, who wrote such book as Wolf's Hour, Swan Song, Mine, and Boy's Life; and Graham Masterson who wrote The Manitou, The Sphinx, Charnel House, and The Walkers.

Nellie

Nellie: Larry has already set us up a neat discussion for Hill House, so let's all convene over there on April Fool's Day: The Haunting of Hill House

Ginny

I'll be there with bells on!

Nellie

I'm savouring Hill House, sipping at it very slowly; at times reading something twice just to get the feel.

I treated myself to a few new books to read: Survival of the Fittest by Jonathan Kellerman; The Green Mile by Stephen King; and Fear Nothing by Dean Koontz. Now I can't decide which one to read first! LOl they are all good.

Nellie

I added another book to my ever growing pile of new books to be read: Pandora by Anne Rice. I've read the first four pages and it promises to be a pretty good one with an interesting character.

Nellie

There is a follow-up book to Brian Lumley's House of Doors out in paperback called Maze of Worlds. It begins where House of Dorrs left off, has all the same characters, and seems pretty good from the first few chapters.

And I have discovered another horror writer Stephen Law. I'm reading a book called Chasm by him in which there are some strange and spooky things going on. There has been an earthquake and there is a strange dust cloud surrounding the city and some sort of slimy oily stuff which eats people...

Nellie

Oo Nellie, that does sound good. How do you hear of these authors? I gave my son my House of Doors and my new one hasn't come yet!

Ginny

I find out about them mainly in the bookstore and just by reading in general...I see I didn't hit the "s" key hard enough last time because it is Stephen Laws and I already have another book by him waiting in the wings: Gideon which sounds excellently creepy from the blurb.

In Chasm the dust cloud is gone and some of the survivors have just discovered the chasm...as exciting as it was, my eyes were too tired for me to read any further...

Brian Lumley has written a lot of horror books; I saw a few more I want to get later on. If you can find them get his Necroscope series of books; his wampyry or vampires are some of the most horrid creatures ever imagined. The actual vampires are slug like creatures that invade humans and change them into beastlike creatures. Good horror stuff. But I'm after his Titus Crow book and some others I saw.

Nellie

Ginny: when you see Maze of Worlds by Brian Lumley in the bookstore...grab it! So far it is just as good as House of Doors. Most of the original characters are back, including the nasty Sith who is now with a group called the Ggyddn. Good stuff!

Nellie

They never sent me the second House of Doors!! I'll go back in and see what's up and order the Maze right now while prices are SO low on B&N on our Bookstore!

Thanks,

Ginny

If you haven't read it already, Dean Koontz's Fear Nothing is very very good. He has a great character in Christopher Snow, who has a rare genetic disease which makes him very vulnarable to light; hence like a vampire he rarely comes out in the daylight. A forgotten photo that is supposed to be buried with Snow's recently deceased father leads him into a deadly mystery which may ultimately involve the whole world and will change all living things.

Koontz always has a wonderful dog character in almost all his stories, and this one is no exception: Orson is a superintelligent black lab mix who occasionally goes into periods of deep depression. Snow does not understand why this happens to Orson until he realizes that Orson has an almost human intelligence in a body that neither allows him to speak nor handle tools.

Nellie

Nellie: Jackson is hard to find in Used Book Stores around here, but did pick up We Have Always Lived in the Castle.

Hi, everybody! I'm a brand new netter at Senior Net, and I noticed this folder, because I love horror stories,etc. I'm afraid I don't care too much for sci-fi, does that mean I'm in the wrong place? What book are you reviewing now, and what will be the next choice? Incidentally, I try to do a little writing myself, and there are several seniors who have stories published, like me, on the WREXPages.Check it out sometime: http://www.sonatapub.com/pages.htm Lorrie

Hi Lorrie, welcome to our group...we just talk about our favorite Horror books in general here for the main part. There is a discussion on Shirley Jackson's Haunting of Hill House going on -a stand alone discussion -I'd make a link but that is hard to do when one doesn't remember the URL of the thing LOL.

We'd love it if you would review one of your favorite horror books for us; or even a list of some of your favorites. I'm always on the lookout for new titles I can add to my collection.

I don't quite understand what you mean by being in the wrong place because of the sci-fi?? The science fiction discussion is in a different place. I suppose it is the Lumley books which have a decided SF component that have you thinking this is also an SF discussion?

Nellie

Hi, Lorrie: Welcome. If you will read over the previous comments in this discussion, you will see it is pure horror. Nellie is a fan of both genres, and she knows horror! I am mostly a fan of SF, but do drop in occassionally here. Jackson is a fantastic author. Castle is deceptively "cozy", with little flashes of something dark and nasty. The narrator is a young girl of indeterminate age who lives with her older sister and her uncle, an invalid. She seems to be the only member of the family who leaves the grounds. She drops cryptic little comments, I'm not allowed to wash the dishes, but I can carry them into the kitchen. (?) The villagers show lip-service respect when she does the family's errands, but the facade has lots of cracks. Gradually, we learn that the entire family were poisoned by arsenic in the sugar bowl at a dinner six years ago, except for these three--our narrator had been sent to bed without dinner, the uncle barely survived the poison, and the elder sister did not use any sugar, she did not eat the dessert: fresh berries.

Jackie, thank you for the precis of Hill House--it sounds like just my cup or tea. I get most of my books from the library, and I'm on the waiting list for that one.

Nellie: I just started Dean Koontz' "Fear Nothing" and I can see I'm going to like it. Already I'm in love with Orson, but then I'm a dog lover, anyway. Like you both, I was appalled to learn that Millenium will be no more--they'd better not monkey with Profiler and X-Files. My neighbors at this Senior hi-rise here think I'm nuts. They don't like my choice in literature. haha Lorrie

Hi Lorrie, Do you have a favorite horror author? I'm very partial to the two K's King and Koontz...but I'll read any horror books I can get my hands on.

Jackie, that Castle book by Jackson sounds good. Similar in a way to Haunting would you say? I'll have to see if I can find it.

Nellie

Nellie: There are similarities, let me see. The family has been ostracized; isolation is a similar theme. There is the kindly older man. Our narrator, Mary Katherine, aka Mericat, is obsessive/compulsive, somewhat akin the rigidity of Hill House' housekeeper. So, the cast of characters is familiar. There is the menacing younger man, also. A long-lost cousin turns up and turns his charm on to Constance, the older sister. Both Mericat and Uncle Julian are uncomfortable with him and the changes his presence brings. In Hill House, the horror is overt. Here is is subtlly hinted at in throw-away lines. My imagination was much more engaged in Castle. However, I am not the aficianado of horror you are. My copy is very old, the cover price is $0.60!

I'v been waiting for the news that Thomas Harris' new book is finally out, and I saw Sunday in the Book Section that it's now ready! It's called "Hannibal," of course, and it's a sequel to Silence of The Lambs," one of my favorites. Who can forget Hannibal Lector, the evil psychiatrist. I've been a fan of Harris ever since I read "The Red Dragon," remember that one? They tell me at the library they'll only be offering "Hannibal" on a rental basis, at first. They expect a great demand, I guess. It's so nice talking to you! Lorrie

Lorrie: yes I remember The Red Dragon, and the first book I read by Harris was Black Sunday. I might read both again one of these days.

Jackie: I'll have to see if the Castle story by Jackson is in the library since it is so old.

Seems the Hill House discussion has died out for the moment. I left a post a while back but no one has replied to it...not that anyone has to mind you LOL.

Nellie

OH oh, I'm so sorry ,Nellie, I'M still there, but running behind always. Going right there right now. Are you intending to read the Hannibal new book??

Ginny

Ginny: I won't be reading Hannibal until it comes out in paperback since that is all I can afford. I just got the paperback of King's Bag of Bones...it is very good so far.

Nellie

I just finished reading King's "The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon" and I was truly disappointed. Does anyone else feel as I do that the reader was really short-changed here? I've always been a fan of King's, but this one seems like nothing more than an overblown short story. Frankly, I was glad I got it at the library--like you, Nellie, the hard-cover best-sellers are out of my budget, even at Amazon. I'm on the waiting list for Hannibal, and think that would be a good one to discuss. Any other opinions? Lorri

I just read that Stephen King was serious injured when struck by a car as he was walking along a road near his home.

Pat, thanks for letting us know. I haven't heard anything about it myself. I hope he will be OK. I see him as a nice guy in spite of the stories he writes. If you find out anything more...let us know?

The latest re: Stephen King: broken pelvis, broken leg, contusions; he has had surgery twice. Stable condition. The car that hit him, a minivan, contained a loose dog, distracted the driver.

Jackie: I saw on the news that King will have a long recuperation period ahead of him; as much as nine months of physical therapy.

Nellie: Someone announced that his injuries were all below the neck, his mind was as good as it ever was!

Jackie: that's good! And I believe his arms and hands are alright too, so He'll still be able to write. I wonder if he thought for a moment of his own book Misery when the accident happened?

Last night I finished a very good horror book called Gideon by Stephen Laws. It is the story of three women who come together to kill the man who has a hypnotic hold over them and is somehow slowly 'loving them to death'. Gideon turns out to be a form of vampire and the rest of the story relates of how he takes his revenge and at the same time prepares his seven sons who must kill each other until only one remains and that one will then be inhabited by Gideons spirit. Very creepy with some gross out stuff here and there.

OOOH, Nellie! I've got to get acopy of "Gideon". Sounds just like my cup of tea. Like you, I'm still waiting for a orrowed copy of "Hannibal".. These modern-day book prices, even on the Amazon, can kill you. Especially if you're like me, on a very fixed budget! Lorrie

Lorrie: I, too, must budget my book purchases. We pass books around at work; that's how I got John Saul's Guardian, a good read. Not at all what I expected. Has anyone read this author?

Yes, Jackie, I 've read books by John Saul. I can't remember the name of it, but one was something about children, maybe "Suffer The Little Children" or something like that. Anyway, it was very good. Lorrie

Jackie: I have a stack of John Saul books, and he's a good writer. His main character seems to be a juvenile most of the time. I'd have to look them up to see what all the titles are. I know Suffer the Children is there, and The Blind Fury, Nathaniel...

I'm starting to collect some more Stephen Laws titles too. Books sure do cost a lot! Even a paperback rings in at 10 bucks most of the time.

Are we going to be reviewing "Hannibal" soon? I got tired of waiting at he library and have ordered a copy. Anybody know?

Lorrie

Lorrie: I don't think we are going to be formally discussing Hannibal as yet, but you can do a personal review of it right here in Horror Books when you have read it. I can't afford hardcover books so I have to wait for the paperback version which should be quite a while yet.

Look forwards to your review...if you do one. I'm sure others who have read the book will join in with their own opinions, and before you know it you will have a nice conversation going.

Okay, Nellie, that sounds like a good idea! By the way, are any of the readers who post in this folder going to the Chicago gathering in November? I am, and I'd like to meet some more horror fans, because I won't be knowing anybody there! Lorrie

Lorrie... not to worry.. You'll find lots of people you know in Chicago... It just might take a second or two to read their smile, hug and nametag

Lorrie: There has been many mentions of Hannibal in Mystery, and I believe that there will be a discussion posted for those who have read the book. Several have finished it or are in process of reading it. This is where there is a little overlap, I guess, between genres. Look Mystery over, you might enjoy it also.

I was looking through my books and found The House Next Door by Anne Rivers Siddons, and ended up reading it. You might recall that it is one of the haunted house books King mentions in Danse Macabre. It is a very good read.

Nellie: If you say it is a good read, I'll vote for it. Glad to see your computer survived the LINUX experiment. I was wondering if it had gone down for the count!

I think THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR is the best book I've ever read, bar none, but it's not for everybody. I stopped lending out my copy as I never got it back.

A masterpiece, but with some very questionable sections?

Ginny

Jackie, it has survived because so far it -the Linux experiement hasn't begun yet. But it was the beta testing of a program that gets very cozy with the hard drive that had me worried, unnecessarily mind you because it worked beautifully.

Ginny, now you are going to have to enlighten me about the questionable parts in The House Next Door...my curiosity has been piqued.

Ginny: Now you've whetted my interest, too! Who wrote THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, and what's questionable? Tell me all. Lorrie

I'm reading another book by Stephen Laws called the Chasm about a city that is shaken apart and the different pieces are 'suspended' over a bottomless chasm out of which a strange black oily stuff comes which animates dead bodies; and there are also childlike creatures that look like cherubs but are nasty murderous little things. The story follows different sets of survivors who are each on different cliffs, or ledges might be a better term. Excellently creepy book.

Ann Rivers Siddons wrote THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR. Questionable? Well let's see, there's a homosexual act, and wasn't there, if not incest a hint of incest? These are, if possible, tastefully done, but they're there, all the same.

I hate to say this as it might spoil the suspense, and now you'll be looking out for them when you read, but they are really incidental to the plot.

Or did I read the wrong book? I could be remembering it incorrectly, too, and don't have time to go back thru?

Ginny

Oh, boy, Nellie CHASM sounds just creepy enough to suit me-- and Gnny, I'm going right out to get EHE HOUSE NEXT DOOR. A few outre passages never bothered me, especially if they're germane to the story. Lorrie

Ginny, you have the right book. Those incidents were so central to what is happening in the story that I never thought of them as questionable.

I got a copy of The House Next Door by Anne Siddons, and I'm into the second half now, and I gotta tell you, it's fascinating!! It all starts out so casually, and then a certain sense of menace creeps in, until you fight yourself to keep from peeking ahead. Im really enjoying this book. In my estimation it's got Hill House beat a mile. Thanks for mentioning it! Lorrie

Lorrie, GREAT!! Nellie, it looks like we've got an interested bunch here for The House Next Door, what do you think?

Ginny

I think we could discuss that one next. I'm thinking that we'll be discussing all the books King mentions in Danse Macabre, if we don't watch out. But then they are all excellent examples of the genre.

In case anyone's interested, and if you're fond of truly scary suspense novels, come join us in a discussion of the new best-seller "Hannibal" over in Upcoming Books--Hannibal in the Books/Literature section. We've just started, and many of us haven't finished reading the book, so please feel free to join in anytime! Lorrie

Finally found my copy of Stephen King's Danse Macabre; what it was doing in the living room bookcases I'll never know. It's my bedtime reading this week, as I finish packing. What a treat! So exciting, and I love the way he integrates movies and books, back and forth. When he sneers at one of my favorites, the original "Thing", I get testy, but on the whole very thorough. (He sounds like a graduate student, doesn't he?) I wonder if he were to update it today what changes in the past 20 years would he find favor in. Nellie: Thanks for the gift of this book.

Your welcome Jackie!

I'm not sure but I think he might have done a new book on the same thing not that long ago...I saw something about it somewhere, but can't recall where...

I got started reading Anne Rice rather late in life. I think her best books was "The Witching Hour" and I recently finished "Violin". Some of her books can be a bit offensive. I never really got into "Interview with the Vampire" as it flirted too much with the subject of homosexuality and child molestation (with Claudia). What's your favorite Anne Rice book?

Greeny: one of my favorite Anne Rice books is the Mummy. I also like all of the Vampire series, and the Lasher series which begins with Witching Hour. A non-horror book I enjoyed was Cry To Heaven, which is the fictional story of the life of a castratto.

"Violin" is the only Anne Rice book I've ever read, but I really enjoyed it, all except for the beginning with the dead body. I was delighted when the heroine stole the ghost violin and became effortlessly famous as a violinist herself,

I agree about "Violin". I had tried starting it three times but couldn't get past the part where she sits with her husband's dead body for three days. However the fourth time I got beyond that and really into the story. I felt so sorry for Stefan (even though he started out trying to drive Triana mad through his music - every time he played his music, it brought back all the memories she was trying to suppress. I liked the line in the book about the persistence f memory being a curse because your mind is never really at ease) As to "The Mummy", I enjoyed the book and when the movie came out not too long ago, I went to see it thinking it was based on her book. Unfortunately, it turned out not to be the case. It was a stinko of a movie. If you haven't seen it, don't waste your time. I heard that Anne Rice is coming out with a new book soon called"Angel Time". Has anyone read an advance copy of it?

Like the recent movie version of The Haunting (of Hill House)--not worth seeing unless you're a fan of special effects. One shouldn't be laughing at a horror movie, but that's what I was doing. My daughter and I agreed that Shirley Jackson should come back and haunt the producer and scriptwriter for associating her name and excellent book with such nonsense. Has anyone else here seen it? Would be interested in comparing reactions.

Ricki, wouldn't Stephen King make a grand book out of that concept? The writer haunts the film producer! hahahaha Love it!

Ginny

Ginny, what a thought!

I haven't seen the new Haunting movie but I did watch the older version and I found even that not up to the level of the book, although it does remain true to the book as much as is possible. I don't think I've seen many movies made from a book that I liked as much as the book itself; the only exception is Silence of the Lambs.

Just wondering where everybody is.

I haven't been reading much horror lit lately but that will change since I've seen some new books I want to pick up. There are at least 2 more Stephen Laws books that I want to get and some by Brian Lumley.

is a very good writer who just happens to write HORRor books. I think I've read most of them but can't remember titles. Micheal Critchton writes a good horror book or would you put him in that catagory. I read everything he writes too. and dean Koontz although I think he's getting tired, winding down a bit.

I like contemp horror better than the old fashioned kind. I'm kinda jaded now. it takes more to horrify me but at the same time Stephen Kind is almost TOO horrible. i.e. I read the Haunting of Hill House and kept waiting to be horrified. It did happen years ago when I read it for the first time.

Claire

Just noticed in my cable guide that the 1963 movie "The Haunting" will be on Turner Classic Movies this coming Saturday evening, the 30th, so anyone who missed it earlier this year has another chance to see how much better it is than the new one.

Thanks for letting us know, Ricki!

I picked up another book by Brian Lumley; it is a series of stories based on Lovecraft's Chtultu(sp) mythos.

And speaking of Lovecraft, I notice they are reprinting his books again; there was almost a whole shelf of them in the bookstore. I used to have them all but might have to recollect them.

Also bought Violin by Anne Rice.

I enjoyed Violin after getting past the beginning; hope you do too. (But the beginning is really something else!)

Ricki: you are right about the beginning of Violin being 'something else'...

Yesterday I picked up The Bone Collector by Jeffery Deaver and from the first chapter it promises to be a good thrilling one. It begins with a man and a woman returning home from a business trip and catching a taxi at the airport. They soon realize that the taxi is not taking them where they want to go and that there are no doorknobs on the inside so they have no way to get out...later the police investigate an anonymous tip and find the body of the man buried standing up with one hand stripped of its flesh sticking out of the ground. (That get's us horror fans interested.)

I also got Jonathan Kellerman's Billy Straight but haven't looked at the first chapter yet to get the feel of the book.