Classical Mysteries ~ 8/03 Export

Hello

Welcome all of you old time detective story lovers. And also a cheery welcome to whom ever else would like to join our discussion and express there thoughts about these old time super sleuths and their authors.

Several months ago I had a discussion about them in Curious Minds. It was met with great enthusiasm and participation. Several of the readers were disappointed the discussion topic lasted only two weeks. That gave me the idea of having an on going general discussion of these wonderful yester-year authors and their brainy, tough and, sometimes, sarcastic detectives I do hope this topic meets with your approval and paves the way for a lively and interesting discussion.

My thanks to our Marjorie for creating this unique heading and to our Pat W for supplying the caricature figure of a detective holding the magnifying glass. Well done ladies.

Bill H

I am so excited! These are my favorite!

Do you all remember the Thin Man movies. I got a video from the library the other day. I had asked them to send a book of the Thin Man mysteries - guessing there were no books, just movies. Anyone know if there are books, and who is the author?

I remember reading Mary Roberts Rhinehart. I know now that her very ladylike mysteries are not popular. But oh how I loved her, especially the nurses.

Welcome FrancyLou and Stephanie so very glad to see you here. Please tell your other friends about it. Lets have a great old timer discussion.

FrancyLou, yes there are Thin Man book(s) the author is Dashiel Hammet. I saw a "Thin Man book last week at the local B&N in fact I sat down and read several pages.Here's a link.

The Thin Man

Bill H

Stephanie, I thought Rhinehart wrote some fine mysteries. I liked The Door. What stories did you read of hers?

Bill H

I asked the Library to send it/them to me. Thanks Bill

Your welcome FrancyLou. It's always better to get them from the lbrary.

Bill H

I love Dashiell Hammett, including his The Thin Man. Apparently the Thin Man films with William Powell and Myrna Loy(?) are quite popular with the younger generation, as well as myself, because video rental stores are almost always out of copies when I go looking.

I'm also fond of the Mr. and Mrs. North mysteries by Frances and Richard Lockridge. There was an old-time TV series for the Norths but I much prefer the books.

Marvelle

Rhinehart was quite popular in her day, tho' her stories seem very dated now. Too much upper class snobbishness, with the bad guys generally being of the lower class, as I recall. Sometimes the butler did do it. Her "Circular Staircase" is considered something of a classic, I believe, and a movie was made from it. ...Babi

Now that one I recall vividly ...scared myself reading it home along on a Sunday afternoon. My parents were out and it was almost dusk...turned all the lights on and then went next door to sit on the porch and wait until the family returned.

I would have to re read them to judge them but as a 12-13 year old I thought she was TOPS...later Mary Stewart held me engrossed...I cant think of one mentioned here I havent read and enjoyed. Loved Nero Wolfe and Archie...and Daphne du Maurier could keep me on the edge of my seat! will love to participate ...so remember to count me in! anna

This is such an interesting discussion.

I discovered adult mysteries by accident when I was in about 7th grade. I lived in a rural area with no library, just what was available in my 3-room school and a rotating collection. I started with Trixie Belden, Nancy Drew, etc., in a very limited way. On one trip to the nearest town, I purchased a Perry Mason paperback, and I was hooked. Then I discovered the old Carnegie library in that town. All the adult mysteries were in one small room. I read everything by Erle Stanley Gardner they had, then moved on to all the other old authors. This was in the late 50's to early 60's. Somedays, when I'm feeling the need for simpler times, I go back to the old authors like Mary Roberts Rinehart, but I confess, Perry Mason no longer holds any charm.

The Perry Mason books are pretty formulaic, aren't they, NLHOME? I liked them also once upon a time, but we do grow and our tastes change. But I still like Miss Marple, I still enjoy Sherlock, Nero Wolfe and Archie. Sam Spade became an archetype for a thousand other private eyes, I think. I did grow a bit tired of the hard-boiled, bottle in the drawer PI. ..Babi

Welcome Marvelle, Babi, Annafair amd nlhome.

This experienced group should make for a great discussion of the Classical Mysteries..

Marvell, I forgot all about the Mr and Mrs North mysteries thank you for reminding me of those. Do any of you recall that series.I liked the Maltese Falcon by Hammett best of all. I suppose it was because of tough guy Sam Spade.

BaBi I saw the movie of the Circular Stair Case but didn't read the book. Would you recommend the book much more so than the movie? I always want to call it the Spiral Staircase. I don't know why. Was there a book by the name of the Spiral Staircase?

Anna, when you mentioned Daphne du Maurier a couple of her most famous books sprung to mind e.g Rebbeca, My Cousin Rachel, etc. There was another I enjoyed very much and that was the House on the Strand I found it very intriguing. It seemed to keep me turning page after page. Did you read that one? If you folks would like to read about it here's a link.

The House on the Strand

Nlhome, you brought back a lot of memories with the Perry Mason stories. I read most of his from books borrowed from a lending library. Gosh! I forgot all about that lending library I used when I was a youngster. I'm not sure but I think I only paid something like three-cents a day for the books. That is taking me back to those cold winter days when I was just a kid and would read the mysteries at night with my dog. Duke--a German Shepard--lying in front of me. Weren't they grand days!

Babi, those authors you just mentioned are such favorites of mine especially Sherlock Holmes and Sam Spade. I got hooked on the Sherlock Holmes stories when I was in my teens and to this day they remain my favorite detective tales.

Bill H

Thanks to you folks we are off to a good start. I believe this discussion will bring out the nostalgia in all of us. Let's keep them coming because I like traveling down memory lane.

bill H

Bill, if you liked "House on the Strand", have you read DuMaurier's "Jamaica Inn"? It's very good.

There is more than one book with the title "The Spiral Staircase", actually. I have gotten the two titles confused in my own mind more than once. I think the movie might have been a bit scarier because of the visual effects. Of course, with a sufficiently vivid imagination, the book would also be scary, as Annafair can testify. Actually, it's been so long since I read it, I don't remember any of the details. Maybe I should read it again. ..Babi

BaBi, I did read "Jamaica Inn" so many years ago that I could read it again and still find it interesting. I enjoyed that story very much. I was supervising the midnight tour when I read that book and when I went to bed in the morning I would prop myself up on the pillows and read with the daylight coming through the window. Strange to read a drama in the daylight. I must say here please avoid ever working the grave-yard shift it tends to make one feel like Dracula.

By the way let us not forget those tales they were really weird.

Bill H

I loved Nero Wolfe and ARchie.. Like many others, once upon a time I devoured all of the Perry Mason stories, but oh me, they certainly did become a formula. I also liked Elizabeth Linington, who wrote under at least four names if not more. Dell Shannon, etc. She had a formula, but also gave personalies to the policemen that she mostly wrote about.Excellent procedurals. I keep thinking there was a mystery writer whose name was Cornell.. first or last.. I just remember liking the stories. My mother belonged to the detective of the month club. She would get three stories in one book every so many months. She let me read whatever I wanted when I was young and always passed them on to me. I think I still have a few somewhere around the house.

Stephanie,
I belonged to the detective of the month club, too. Everybody here is jogging my memory of so many good old things. This is really great.

Bill H

Muat have been very popular as I belonged to that and a mystery club as well one time..I started in my early teens and joined a girls organization , whose name eludes me, who asked us what books we had read recently< When I mentioned Rebecca the leader was surprised since she felt it would not be a book a 12-13? year old would read. I read the synopsis of House on the Strand and believe I read it but now feel I must see if the library has one. I still have several du Maurier books..The Flight of the Falcon I think is one..I know I was checking in the den library and saw several by her and I think one had that title. Most mysteries I found a real relief from being a wife and mother or a daughter...there are just so many things you are supposed to do and with a mystery my imagination was stirred and for a time I would forget where I was and who. It was a delicious feeling...anna

Bill, Thanks for starting this discussion. It's a great idea, and a wonderful place for us to discuss our favorites and get ideas from everyone else.

Marvelle, I love Dashiell Hammett, too. I have read three biographies about him and Lillian Hellman. Their life stories are as interesting as his fiction.

I also love Nero Wolf and Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple....

This is going to be FUN!

Welcome Horselover
Yes having fun is what this discussion is going to be all about. I'm just as anxious as you to hear about the old mysteries you folks have read and there are so many of them that are just outstanding and they were good without using any vulgar words.
Folks, don’t forget to click on the links in the heading. They will take you to sites where you can read mystery stories on line. The complete works of Edgar Allan Poe and Sherlock Holmes, both short stories and novels can be read there. Other links take you to where you can read other stories or read about authors. Don't miss out on them.

Bill H

Horselover, I also have found the Hammett and Hellmann life stories as fascinating as their writings. I have Hammett's five novels in one volume, found it at a garage sale years ago. It's one of my "keepers."

Babi, I was curious when you mentioned there was more than one book with the title of Spiral Staircase. So I looked in on our Barnes and Noble and you were right there are. Here's a link to see them
Spiral Staircase
I often confuse the two title--Circular Staircase and The Spiral Staircase. If you would like to read the difference in the two you can read a synopsis of the Circular Staircase by clicking.
The Circular Staircase
If I were asked what my favorite old time mystery story was, I'd be hard put to name just one. I suppose I have several favorites. However, the one that springs to mind just now is Conan Doyle's "Hound of the Baskervills." Perhaps later another will spring to mind. As I grow older it takes a little longer for things to spring to mind.) ever since I was a youngster the Sherlock Holmes' mysteries have always been great favorites of mine You see, at that time those stories were a popular radio serial, and as I read them I could here the voice of Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce. I suppose that is what influenced me.
Could some of you folks tell us what your favorite(s) are and why or how you came to favor them over others?
Bill H

BILL, I already checked the B&N listings, for just that reason. Great minds, you know....

NL, that is my kind of garage sale! My primary reason for stopping at garage sales is to check out the books and puzzles. ...Babi

Bill, I always liked Hercule Poirot because I wanted to see all the obssesive-compulsive things he would do while solving the mysteries (to see if they were the same as mine--haha).

I liked Sam Spade because he was my fantasy hero--tough, uncompromising, sexually attractive, smart, loyal.... Philip Marlowe was pretty cool, too.

I liked Miss Marple because she offered hope that, even as a senior, one could be intellectually sharp and a useful functioning member of society.

I liked Nero Wolf because he showed how much one could accomplish without ever leaving home (haha).

Hmmm favorite of old time detectives.. Or favorite mystery.. old style. THat is a tough one and I am going to have to really think about it. A very strong influence for me was Agatha Christie. I liked the non series ones she did the most.. Hercule did not really appeal, but the rest of her detectives did. Also Josephine Tey... "Brat Ferrar" and the one about the princes and their Uncle..Sigh.. Got to go look for some of my old ones.

Horselover, I really never thought of Hercule Poirot as being an obsessive compulsive, but now that you mention it I got to thinking about all the things he did and I'm inclined to agree with you. Do you suppose Agatha Christie had some OB behavior?
When you said this: "I liked Sam Spade because he was my fantasy hero--tough, uncompromising, sexually attractive, smart, loyal.…" I thought you were describing me )
Stephanie, I could never warm up to Hercule Poirot either. It seemed like his stories were all so complex. It reminded me of the saying: "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."
The private eye I got a kick out of was Sayers' Lord Peter Wimsey. At times he seemed so comic. Do you think he used that strategy just to dupe the suspects?

Bill H

I enjoyed the Agatha Christie stories with Tuppence and, I think it was, Tommy. I also enjoyed the early John D. Macdonald and Ross Macdonald books, but I'm not sure they are the type to reread. And Ngaio Marsh. And Ellery Queen. But I think my favorite "old time" mystery author is Agatha Christie.

All mentioned here are also my favorites...The wonderful thing about re reading a good mystery story for me is I wait so long between readings it feels like a new book. And sometimes I am surprised to find I dont recall the endings. As I have said I just enjoy a mystery..it is a relaxing read even if I scare myself or become tense before the the culprit is revealed. anna

Is John Dickson Carr (who also wrote as Carter Dickson) in the scope of the discussion?

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/jdcarr.htm

His books often had a supernatural leaning and one in particular, The Burning Court, could still scare me to death. I bought a copy a while back, but haven't had the courage to reread it.

For some reason, I simply never cared for Lord Peter Wimsey. Didn't like the man. No accounting for tastes, I suppose.

Much as I like Agatha Christie and Jane Marple, the Poirot stories often irritated me. Not the fussiness, (that was a great observation, Horselover) but simply that I felt the stories did not always play fair with the reader. You could arrive at the end of the story, and find the solution depended on some small detail casually mentioned early on, with absolutely nothing else to point to it! At least, that's how it seemed to me.

..BAbi

BaBi==

But that was the whole point.

You were supposed to be sharp enough to spot the event, and realize its significance. Needless to say, I never have been.

But the early mysteries were really more puzzles for the reader. And they used to consider that people who liked them were intellectually superior because they liked to solve the puzzles. I don't think that there are as many mystery writers today who think in terms of puzzles.

John Dickson Carr (mentioned in a previous post) wrote a lot of 'locked-room' mysteries where you had to figure out how the murder could have occurred when the room was completely (or so it seemed) inaccessible from the outside. Some of the solutions were very ingenious.

BBC America has a series called 'Jonathan Creek' where the young man works with a magician (which gives them a chance to do some really spectacular effects) and solves mysteries in his off time. And most of those mysteries are of the locked room variety. However, being limited to an hour, they aren't so intricate as some of the ones in literature. But, entertaining nevertheless.

nlhome, I enjoyed the Tuppence and Tommy stories also. I like stories that are set in the twenties or thirties. I enjoyed the TV series of them very much. I get nostalgic seeing the ambiance of those times such as the make up the women used them , the old time automobiles, and the clothing style of that period. Thank you for mentioning Ellery Queen he was one of my favorites.
Anna, sometimes I will reread a good mystery and I'm surprised to learn that I missed so many thing the first time around. When I read the story again, I see how the clues lead up to the solving of the crime. But, you know, sometimes the author takes poetic license with the clues and, at the end., bends them to fit the solution.
Welcome Jeanlock
Thank you for the link to the John Dickson Carr bio, and I once again remembered he wrote under a different name. I didn't realize he was born just a little over fifty or sixty from where I live in the Pittsburgh, Pa region. Thank you for telling me about THE BURNING COURT. I am going to get that book. I hope it's still in print.
Many of us have mentioned Agatha Christie and what we like or dislike about her books. I thought perhaps you may like to visit her home page. It is nicely done.
Agatha Christie

Bill H

Bill--

Yes I think Burning Court is still in print. But you can also try Amazon's used book feature. Another good one is The Emperor's Snuffbox about the French revolutionary times.

He could portray the English atmosphere like no one else. And I was astounded when I found out he was from Pennsylvania. (Martha Grimes is also an American, and there are a couple more who write British mysteries, but are really American.)

Yes, the Christie site is very good. I don't have time to go exploring, but will spend some time there soon. Thanks.

My father came from the Uniontown/Masontown area. He was born in one of the coal mining places "Leisenring #3". And I'm from near Youngstown Ohio, and used to come to Pittsburgh every December for a debating event at the Cathedral of Learning. NIce to meet a 'homeboy'.

Jean, isn't it a small world. Your dad was born in the Uniontown area and at one time I had relatives living in in your city of Youngstown, Ohio. I still have friends living in New Castle, Pa which is not too far from Youngstown. Was Leisenring #3" the site of that terrible coal mine disaster that took place so many years ago.?
If you haven't visited Pittsburgh for a quite a while you would be surprised at all the changes that took place in downtown Pittsburgh. Of course, Pittsburghers say "dahntahn" Pittsburgh. ) Do you still remember Pittsburghese?

Bill H

Bill--

Didn't know there was a Pittsburghese. I only knew Youngstownese. No, I don't think Leisenring was the site of a disaster. But the one where the miners were trapped underground was in the same area. There may not even be a mine with that name any more. I drove 'past' Pittsburgh about 6 years ago when I went back to Ohio for a class reunion. I knew it had been de-smogged.

I've been so disgusted with my sons who hate immigrants and have no hesitation in saying so. I went out on the 'net and found a LOT of information about the conditions in the coal mines in the late 1890s and early 1900s when my father would have been there. I'm going to assemble them in a notebook, and put on the cover, "Mommy, where did I come from?" so that they will realize that they are only 2 generations removed from being an immigrant. Sheesh!!!!!

(Incidentally, Dad didn't remain a coal miner; he went to business school at age 14 and eventually went to work for a local bank where he stayed for over 40 years until he died.)

There was a second English Detective in the Peter Wimsey vein. I wish I could remember his name ( ahh senior moments)Whoever wrote about him did not do as many as Sayers, but they were fun as I remember. John Dickson Carr wrote under two names. His own and Carter Dickson. He was quite prolific and known for his locked room mysteries. He had several detectives. I think I have read most of them. I loved the locked room and the historicals..But never ever could I solve the locked room stuff.

Oh Bill, if my description of Sam Spade really fits you, I would love to meet you!

Has anyone read the Brother Cadfael mysteries? The historical background makes them interesting.

Oh, Horselover, I wish I your description of Sam Spade did fit me, but no such luck.

Bill H

GOOD FOR YOU, JEAN! GO GET 'EM, GIRL.

I am one of those who liked who-dun-its, and trying to figure it out before the end. Sometimes I can figure a lot of it out, and still go wrong on the main question.

I do enjoy Brother Cadfael, but isn't Ellis Peters too recent to be consieered a 'classic'? BILL, define classic for us. Are we going by time frame, or popularity, or what? ..Babi

I would think that Judge Dee might be considered a classic mystery. I have not read about him in years, but I did love them. I would think it was the way I thought of the orient..

Arthur Hastings, the sidekick of Hercule Poirot, describes him as follows: "His moustache was very stiff and military. The neatness of his attire was almost incredible; I believe a speck of dust would have caused him more pain than a bullet wound." I would say that Hercule most definitely was obssesive-compulsive. But this was part of his charm.

I took the day off today and I just got home, but I have some thing I want to tell you tomorrow.

Bill H

Stephanie--

Babi--

Glad to find someone else who tries to solve the mystery.

------------

Oh, yes. Judge Dee. Very interesting books. One thing about a lot of the 'older' mysteries is that they picked a more or less esoteric subject, and in the course of reading the story one also picks up a lot of knowledge that he/she might not have come across before. A good example is the bell ringing in the Nine Tailors by Dorothy Sayers.

Bill--

But it IS tomorrow. And this is my only sojourn among the elite for today. And you're not here!!!!

Jean, sorry you missed my post. I apologize for getting here late. You mentioned The Nine Taylors." Do you remember the discussion we had about that book a couple of months ago?
Every time I visit the local B&N bookstore I am amazed at the sea of books I encounter. I usually make a bee line for the mystery department and browse the row after row of books in that section and then on to the computer book section where I am over awed.
I was looking over the Agatha Christie stories lined up on the shelf and I learned that Christie also wrote under another pen name: Mary Westmacot. Two of her books written under that name stood there on the shelf. The titles were Daughter's a Daughter and Absent in the Spring. Of course, they were a different genre from her mystery stories. If you would care to read the synopsis of Absent in the Spring click
Here
I'm not sure if Ms. P. D. James would constitute an oldie author, but I got to looking over her works also and the one that intrigued me the most was "Death of an Expert Witness"--an Adam Dalgliesh mystery. I suppose what whetted my curiosity of this book was the jacket design. I see so many books I'd like to read, but, oh, the time it would take.
I wonder if there is a books discussion groing out of all these old timers?
By the way Jean, I searched the B&N shelves for any of the John Dickson Carr books or Carter Dickson but they didn't have a single one. I was looking for the "Burning Court" novel.

Bill H

Bill, Adam Dalgliesh is another one of my romantic heroes--strong, sensitive (a poet), smart, authoritative--would like to meet him, too.

Bill, I still sometimes see a John Dickson Carr/Carter Dickson book in a used book store. They are out of print, I suspect, so you're not likely to find one elsewhere. ..Babi

Bill--

If you like, I'll look for B. C. whenever I'm in a used book store. Also, you might check on the internet used book sites. Or, on our own Book Exchange. You could say you're looking for it, and if anyone has it you can get it for the postage.

I came across the Westmacott novels a few years ago and read a couple. Not up to her mysteries. As for the Nine Tailors, I don't usually participate in online discussions. Just one, so far--A Lesson Before Dying. I'm finding that internetting is taking far too many of my functioning hours, and will have to cut back if I ever hope to really ACCOMPLISH anything with my time.

BaBi, thanks for the information. I will check the on line bookstores.
Jean, yes, if you come across B C in a books store please let me know.
Internetting does take up a lot of time, but isn't fascinating how much we learn?

Bill H

Bill H--

Oh yes. TOO fascinating. Here I am at 10:00 am, and haven't even finished my coffee or begun to read the paper. Which will make it at least noon before I start my 'day'. I never did have much will power.

Even my friend Alice who has shunned the PC for about 2 years, having been frustrated by the normal glitches is about to sign up for an internet provider, and I am (sigh) going to help her get it set up with everything she needs on her desktop so that she just has to click on the icon to get there. Hope that works. or else I'll be making frequent trips over the river and through the woods to sort it out.

Ah, JEANLOCK, but isn't it wonderful to have a friend like you who will trudge over the river and thru' the woods to help out us computer dummies? I am fortunate to have my younger daughter with me, who at least can figure things out better than I can.

Bill, it has crossed my mind that there are classics outside the specific 'mystery' genre that yet have mysteries included in them. And there are those that are mysteries, but not in the sense of murder mysteries. I'm thinking of books like Collins "Woman in White". ...Babi

Jean, after you introduce your friend to the Internet are you going to tell her about SeniorNet?) Just think you will have your friend to converse with when you are both on line. How about Instant Messages between you and your friend.?
BaBi, I was reading a synopsis of the Women in White and that sound like a good gothic tale. I will post here what I read about it.
From the Publisher
" Generally considered the first English sensation novel, The Woman in White features the remarkable heroine Marian Halcombe and her sleuthing partner, drawing master Walter Hartright, pitted against the diabolical team of Count Fosco and Sir Percival Glyde. A gripping tale of murder, intrigue, madness, and mistaken identity, Collins's psychological thriller has never been out of print in the 140 years since its publication."
Just imagine this book has never been out of print of 140 years. Oh, Babi, I think this more than meets the standards of the oldies
My poor mind is in a whirl thinking about all the books I want to read. Thanks for telling us about this one.
I'm going to write down all the books I've read so far here and see how many of them I can read.
Here are some more reviews about The Woman in White. I think you will like. reading them. They gave this tale a 5-star rating.
The Woman in White>

Bill H

Bill--

Alice knows about seniornet. She has attended a couple of our Virginia get-togethers. The problem is that we have waaaay different mind sets. She's the artistic type, I'm the analytical type. And she has always resisted my attempts to encourage her to learn some PC stuff so that when an extraordinary 'event' occurs, she can say, "Oh, that happened last week. Now how did we fix it?". Instead, she calls me.

Jean, again I have to say this is a small world. You said your friend's name was Alice. Well, that was my mother's name. Is your friend of English or Irish ancestry?

Bill H

Bill--

No, she's from Russian heritage. And boy, is she stubborn! And she knows it. Of course with my Scottish, English, and Slovak heritage, I'm no slouch in that department, either.

Jean, I know quite well how stubborn the Irish and English can be!

Bill H

As I read the posts here and the names of some of my favorite mystery writers of the past I really regret getting rid of my mystery books...I know this must sound awful but as I have said mystery books are like dessert to me...some years ago I went through a stage where I gave up reading fiction etc. I was into history, biographies etc but now I know I NEED some mytery in my life.

Right now I have a guest, a younger brother who lost his wife in February..He has had a lot of health concerns and so I am sort of busy looking after him. He reads westerns...tomorrow (SUN) we are going to Arlington to see the gravesites of one of our older brothers and my husbands. He wants to see the Wall and the Korean memorial since he served during those "wars".... as soon as he leaves I am going to the library and also scanning all my books for a good mystery I enjoyed in the past.

I am so glad you started this discussion ...makes me smile ..anna

Bill, I would like to thank you too. All of the posts are exciting to read and very helpful. I am reading Miss Marple again.

Hats--

And Miss Silver (by Patricial Wentworth, another of the oldies)

Anna, I know how you feel about giving your mysteries away. A couple of years ago I donated many of my paper backs and some hard covers to the brand new township library where I live. I wanted to help the new library get off to a good start and my books along with the books donated by other residents gave a tremendous lift to the new place. But, you know, even though it was for a worthwhile cause, I sometimes wish I had those books back so I could reread one every so often especially now since we started this new discussion. Do you live close to Arlington National Cemetery?

Hats, welcome to the discussion. I believe I have some ESP. I'll tell you why. Last evening I got to thinking Hats loves mysteries and I feel sure she is going to post here soon. This morning when I logged on sure enough there was a post from you. How about that!

Jean, you just mentioned a novel that I knew nothing about. I'm going to have to read something about that one.

Samuel Dashiell Hammett.

I just learned that Samuel was Hammett's first name. Do you suppose he was thinking a little of himself or hoping it was a little of him self when he wrote the Sam Spade mysteries?

You can read a brief bio of the man.

Dashiell Hammett

Bill H

Bill--

Patricia Wentworth wrote a series of mysteries featuring a Miss Silver. I'll see if I can find one of mine and post some of Miss Silver's distinguishing characteristics. I've always liked them.

Then, there's the HIBK style of mystery typified by Mary Roberts Rhinehart. (Had I But Known).

Off to the local dinner theatre this afternoon to see Show Boat

Jean, enjoy the day.

Bill H

Does anyone else remember the Father Brown mysteries. They were well done. I think mostly short stories however

Stephanie--

Yes, Father Brown was good. Isn't there one in that series about bee keeping? Or am I thinking of something else?

Stephanie, didn't PBS show some Father Brown stories?

Bill BH

To see an alphabetized list of just about all the mystery authors--some famous and some not so famous-- and their works, please visit this site. It's hard to believe there are so many of them!
Visiting this site and clicking on several of the authors names invoked a lot of fond memories when there books appeared.
Mystery Authors and Their Books

Bill H

Hi Classic Mystery Lovers, our Bill asked me to post something I put in the Mystery Corner over here for your interest and I am glad to, I also have a photograph taken IN the Sherlock Holmes Museum, I think you might find it amusing so I'll put that here asap, here it is:

This spring I finally got in the "Sherlock Holmes Museum" on Baker Street in London (there IS no 221B which I am sure you know) which is quite interesting, the most interesting thing being the lines of people waiting to get in and have their photo taken with Sherlock or the man dressed up like him or the affable bobby on the steps. The "museum" is made out to be what 221 B Baker Street would have looked like and there are figures of Holmes and Watson poised like Madame Tussaud's, but the thing which struck me the most were the letters, going back for decades, some of them with 2003 dates, of people writing "Holmes" for help with their problems, and they appear quite serious, amazing, isn't it? No wonder Doyle could not keep him dead.

I love Sherlock Holmes and have all the radio shows about him with Basil Rathbone, Tom Conway and even a couple of other guys, love them. There are all kinds of companies on the internet selling old radio mystery broadcasts but I like Crabapple Sound The owner, Hank Hinkel and his wife are retirees who set it up as a hobby and they are fantastic.

ginny

Bill, Thanks for the link to the short bio of Dashiell Hammett. What this sketch does not mention is that, although Hammett pretty much had stopped writing under his own name by the 1940s, he was responsible for many of Lillian Hellman's successful plays. He was a very handsome fellow, despite his bouts of ill health. Much better looking than Humphrey Bogart. In her autobiography, Patricia Neal says she had an affair with Hammett, and Hellman confirms that he was a womanizer who was not faithful to her. But he did live with her, and she did take care of him during his last illness. He was a fascinating man!

Ginny, thank you for the post. I'd love to see that picture of you shaking hands withh Sherlock Holmes;o)
Horselover, that was a very interesting post. I have heard of Hammett being a gad about;o)

Bill H

From all I have read, Lillian was not a picnic to live with. Strong principles, but very one way. Still being blacklisted cannot have been much fun.

http://www.transki.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm

Welcome to the Continental Detective Agency! Our files explore the works and life of Samuel Dashiell Hammett, the creator of the Continental Op, author of The Maltese Falcon and the originator of the hard boiled school of detective fiction.

Horselover, thank you for that great link!

Bill H

Most people connect Sam Spade with the radio program of many years ago. However, when I hear that private eye's name mentioned I always think of Humphrey Bogart playing the role in "The Maltese Falcon." I'm glad I watched that movie because it gave a me a face and a personality to assign to the characters whenever I read the Sam Spade Novels. Do any of you folks do that?

I don't recall to vividely that radio program and I'm trying to think of the actor who played the roll on radio.

Photo: Courtesy of IMDb

Bill H

If I can see the movie first then I will put the actor's face on the fictional character I read after that but if I have read the book first and my own imagination shapes a face then I am always disappointed in the movie actor chosen for he part. However----Humphrey Bogart as Sam Spade was a brilliant bit of casting, IMHO! He just will always be Sam Spade in my mind.

Howard Duff was the actor who played Sam Spade on the 40's radio show. He had a great voice that I really liked listening to and of course, since it was radio I could picture any face I wanted to go along with that great voice.

Bill, I love your ESP. I am enjoying all of this so much and learning more than I ever knew about mysteries.

Jean, thanks for the recommendation. I will try my library. I am very excited.

Bill, I love that picture of Bogie, and I'm glad it's in black-and-white. That is so much more appropriate!

Welcome Ginny and Phyll.
Ginny, I can hardly wait to see the photo of you shaking hands with Sherlock Holmes, but I repeat myself. What all does the museum contain of Holmes memorabilia? When I was in London many years ago I failed to visit it. I took a tour of the city and past by 221 Baker Street. I could kick myself now for not inquiring about it.
Phyll, thank you for telling me it was Howard Duff that played the roll on radio. Just imagine that was way back in the 40s. For some reason I didn't care for Howard Duff. I don't mean his speaking voice that was very good, but he never came across to me as a movie star.
Hats, that was true about the ESP bit. I really did think about you making a post here. Now if I could conjure up a winning lottery number what an ESP thought that would be!
Horselover, I share your opinion about the photo. Black and white adds so much more drama to mysteries. I wonder if the studio considered any other actors for the Sam Spade roll? Hard to imagine thatnow. Have to log off now it is beginning to storm AGAIN!

Bill H

Bill H.

I've been reading a very interesting mystery by Jane Langton, called "Murder at Monticello". At the beginning of each chapter, she includes an entry from the diaries of the men in the Lewis and Clark expedition. The 'heroine' of the book is a young woman with a grant to write a bio of Jefferson. Then yesterday, the Post published the following which I thought most timely from my perspective:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40354-2003Aug24.html

The Histories of Pittsburgh; A Lot Got Started There, Including the Journey of Lewis & Clark: By Joel Achenbach, Washington Post Staff Writer: Monday, August 25, 2003; Page C01

"PITTSBURGH

Andy Masich, perched on a tiny landing near the roof of an old warehouse, points out the historical landmarks of the Steel City. He sees with the special X-ray vision that a good historian has to have. He banishes the new and the superficial. He peels back the layers of concrete and brick and asphalt, all the modern stuff that's slapped on the past."

The article includes some nice pictures and I knew you'd be interested as you're a Pittsburgher.

My granny who was a gentle loving timid little Scottish lady loved nothing more than a good Agatha Christie or Ngaio Marsh story. The more horrifying the murders the better she seemed to like them. We used to tease her about this part of her personality. I was introduced to Agatha Christie at a young age as I would read the books when she finished them. (No wonder I used to have nightmares!)

Carolyn

Welcome Kiwi Lady,
Carolyn, many readers share your grandmothers love for the Agatha Christie and Ngaio Marsh stories. Hope your nightmares weren't to bad but look at the fun you had reading the stories.
When I was a much, much younger man, I share leased a horse at a county run stable and one of the horses in that stable was called "Nightmare." I wonder if the manager of the stable was having a little bit of fun with me.
Jean, there must've been a lot of traffic on the link you posted. It took me to the site just fine but for some reason it would not open.
What a coincidence you should mention the Louis and Clark expedition. The past several Sundays the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has been running the story of there expedition. It's very interesting reading and some of the memorabilia that is shown is quite interesting. I'm going to try again to get into the web site you gave us. I'm sure it is well worth visiting.

Oh by the way, the storm passed over so I came back on line. Bill H

Well, Bill, the Washington Post IS the Washington Post so there may well be a lot of 'traffic'. I had some problems myself. Including pasting information into a Word Perfect file so I could transfer it quicker to seniornet. And having WP crash, and I hadn't saved the page. So, had to do it all over again.

Jean, isn't it frustrating when your word processor program crashes and you lose your work. My computer came installed with WordPerfect 10 as the word processor and it seemed to crash or freeze ever so much. Finally I got so frustrated with WordPerfect, I purchased and installed the basic Microsoft Works for $35 after rebate and I've been more than pleased with the word processor. Mind now, I didn't get Microsoft Word that is much more expensive than Works. However, Works is all I need

Bill H

CHEERS, CHEERS Jean, I went back and tried your link once more and it opened up just fine for me. I can see how that article will make interesting reading for me!
You know, I don't think it was the fault of the web site that it didn't open. My computer had been running slow all morning. So I refreshed my AOL adapter and lo and behold my computer is again running at a fast speed. After I refreshed the adapter I went back and clicked on your link and the web site opened almost immediately. Thank you. That will make interesting reading.I should've thought about refreshing the adapter as soon as I realized the web sites were running slow I was even having trouble with our SN site.

Bill H

What's refreshing the adaptor? Is that peculiar to AOL? Never heard of it.

In my many years of tech writing, I used Word Perfect exclusively because it was far and away the best one around. Word had an inclination to be susceptible to the 'macro' virus that could trash your document in a second. Did it to me once while I was printing the final copy and the guy was standing there waiting to get it to the airport. And it trashed the entire document. I was not loved when I had to retype the complete file. And it happened more than once. MS has a document about it in their Help stuff.

Word Perfect has always been reliable, and I love being able to see the 'codes' and clean them up, etc. And I've been using this copy of 9 for a couple of years, and it's just recently I've been having problems. I've been thinking about re-installing it. Sometimes that helps. I also have Works, and Word tho I don't use them.

And this after I've been conscientous about defragging and cleaning up my drives, etc. Maybe I should have left well-enough alone.

Word is just too slow for me. And I've got used to some of the stuff in WP that I'd hate to do without. It was always better about doing documents with a number of chapters, and I'm going to use it to compile the recipe books I'm giving my kids for Christmas.

Jean, I believe you have a much more sophisticated WordPerfect program than what came installed in my computer. My WP was VERY basic and it didn't work as well as yours.
Yes.AOL does have a way of refreshing the there adapter, however I don't want to explain it here because I'm not a tech and I don't want to cause others problems What works for me may not work for someone else.

Bill H

Bill H-

You said you had Word Perfect 10. That's newer than my version (9), and there's a new version out. I talked to the Corel rep at the computer show I went to last spring, and he said that now you can print the codes out.

You DO know about the codes, don't you?

While you have a document on the screen, if you press Alt, F3 another window with a green background opens below your document. And you can see the codes WP has used for formatting, etc. Especially when I copy something into a document from the internet there are always a bunch of codes that I don't need. It's easier to just delete the codes than to try manually to fix it line by line.

Bill, now that you brought it up I do remember the Sam Spade radio shows. I seem to remember he called his secretary "Doll"; is that right? I believe there was a TV series also, which I recall as always opening with a view of 'Doll''s great legs as she answered the ringing phone. ...Babi

Jean,. When I open a blank page WP 10 page and hit Alt F3 and type something on the blank page a beige screen opens at the bottom of the page and it types what I'm typing on the blank page, but there is some sort of diamond thingy between the words.

BaBi, Yessssssss, I do recall the Sam Spade TV show especially the opening ) I liked that best of all. Did Sam Spade pay much attention to the "Doll?"

I suppose the Deadly Sin mysteries of Lawrence Sanders could qualify as an oldie. If you recall he wrote the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. deadly sin stories. The only one I didn't read was the 2nd. Deadly Sin. In most of these stories Sanders lets the reader know from the very beginning who the villain is, however, in the one I'm reading now, The Fourth Deadly Sin, he keeps the reader guessing until the last few pages of the book. Even though he kept throwing the reader of the path from guessing who the killer is, I had a hunch and only a hunch about who it was. It turned out my GUESS was right.
Lawrence Sanders portrays the retired Chief of detectives, Edward X Delaney (our hero), as a large, lumbering type of fellow and I formed a mental image of him that I connected with a fellow supervisor I worked with ) One of our readers pointed out that sometimes she forms a mental image of a book character only to be disappointed in the movie person of this book character. Well, I only remember one movie of the Deadly Sin novels and that being the First Deadly Sin, which I thought was the best of them all. In that movie Frank Sinatra played the role of Edward X Delaney. Now Sinatra was in no way a large, lumbering type of man, and even though he turned in a good performance I thought he was miscast as Edward X Delaney. I must add here that movie of the First Deadly Sin could not compare with the novel of that name.

Bill H

Ellery Queen is one more private eye that I enjoyed reading about very much and is worth mentioning here. This discussion is bringing to mind all the old favorites I read so long ago. Wasn't there a radio program of the Ellery Queen novels? Probably a TV show about them as well although I forget who played the roll of Queen. Isn't it odd that in years gone by both radio and TV had shows of the old time mysteries but today those media don't produce shows of the present day mysteries. Perhaps I'm just missing them I would like to see PBS show some of the old timers.

Bill H

I can even see Ellery now from the tv show, but darned if I can remember the actors name. I always like Ellery. Sort of off hand and fun

I can remember that my father liked Ellery Queen. There must have been a radio show based on his stories because my father would be on the sofa reading his Ellery Queen magazine and listening to the radio at the same time. When he had lots of magazines he took them to the VA hospital for those men to enjoy. Myself I still enjoy watching Perry Mason who was created by Ellery Queen. He is on the TV right now as I am typing this.

Stephanie, I found a web site that gives Hug Marlow as the detective that played the role of Queen in the TV episodes. If you would like to see the titles of the compete series Marlow was in, please click on
Hugh Marlow
Scroll down until you come to Marow's name and you will find a comple listing under it. I hope this is what you mean.

Bill H

Louise, wouldn't it be nice if we could just find out who played that roll on radio!

Bill H

…hmm, what can we talk about next?

Bill H

Stephanie, The father of Timothy Hutton (can't remember his first name) played Ellery Queen in several movies.

Bill, My addiction to mysteries started with Nancy Drew. I read every one, and still have them. Do they qualify as classic mysteries???

Jean, I have always preferred Word Perfect, too, and use it most of the time. Sometimes, I have to use Word when people specify that attachments must be in Word.

Love that animation Bill!

Carolyn

Horselover, you are thinking of Jim Hutton.

If that Felix, Bill? Okay... question! There are many mysteries written today incorporating animals, esp. cats. (Appropriate, I suppose, being associated with many things mysterious.) Offhand, I can't recall any</> oldtime mysteries that made animals significant characters. Anybody else recall any? ...Babi

Welcome Kiwi Lady, so happy you found us.
BaBi, I think Felix is as good a name as any. You just named the our thinking cat.

Bill H

Horselover, the Nancy Drew Mysteries are among some of the most popular old time mysteries. I never read any myself but others I talked to about them told me they are really quite good. I found a list of the Nancy Drew stories on our Barnes and Noble that sound very interesting. You can see them by clicking on
Here
Do we have any Sherlock Holmes fans?

Bill H

Bill--

That beige screen at the bottom of the page is where WP displays the 'codes'. Those little diamond thingies are spaces between words, etc. If you continue typing, and using some formatting such as a new font, underlining, etc., you will see that formatting written in that space. Also HRT for hard return, UND for underline, etc. Especially when I import something from the web into a WP document, it carries the original formatting and I have to look at those codes to delete the ones I don't want.

-------------------

I used to keep a Nancy Drew book inside my open geography book (the largest book we had) and read straight through class. I sat in the back row and got away with it. Being a man, who probably doesn't ask for driving directions, you also probably don't bother with Help information. But if you'll click on the Help menu and then on Help topics and type reveal codes, you'll probably find more information. Can't speak for #10 because mine is #9, but it should be there.

I love the animation. Back in the first PC days, whenever the PC was doing its thing in the background, there used to be just a blinking prompt at the top left of the screen. Your only indication that anything was going on. I always thought they should have just put "Thinking" there instead. Nowadays with Windows, they have lost of different ways to mark time.

I have been an ardent fan of the Sherlock Holmes stories since my preteens. I must confess that I first gained interest in these stories not from books but from the Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce radio program of those stories. If you recall they would air Sunday evenings and that made my Sundays a bit more special. I made sure I was home in time to listen to them.
Then my interest turned to the books of that super sleuth. I have two hard backs of the all the Sherlock Holmes mysteries and several video tapes of many of the stories. The tape I bought was the "Hounds of the Baskervilles. I suppose I watched that black and white tape many time. but I never tire of Rathbone's performancs of Sherlock. Some of those tapes I made on my VCR when either PBS or A & E television channels were showing them.
My township library is a member of the Electronic Information Network for pubic libraries in Allegheny County, PA. If they don't have the books or tape I'm interested in they can usually get for me within a couple of days, depending on the availability.
Many of the books or tapes are donated by residents of the various communities. Sometimes I think I should donate some of these Sherlock books or tapes, but I never do. I just don't want to part with old friends.
Do we have any Sherlock Holmes fans here?

Bill H

VOTE for the next BOOK CLUB ONLINE selection! We want to hear from YOU! Come on over to the BOOKS COMMUNITY CENTER this week and nominate titles you might like to discuss with us. NEXT WEEK, we'll VOTE and discuss the winner in November. Get in on the fun!

I just started reading Shadowland by Peter Straub. Didn't they recently make a movie of the book? If any of you read it, what did you think of it?Bill H

I have bought my first Patricia Wentworth mystery, The Grey Mask. Someone recommended it. Anyway, I will start it someday soon.

Hats, that sounds like a good one. When you get to reading the story will you please tell us a bit about it?

Bill H

Bill, I think every mystery lover is a Sherlock Holmes fan. I loved the books, and also the PBS Mystery series about Holmes as a young man working with his mentor.

Photo: Courtesy of Private Eye.

Horselover, I missed that PBS series of Holmes as a young man. However, I watched all the Jeremy Brett "Sherlockians" when they viewed on PBS and again on A&E and I never tired of watching them. Brett did a great job as Sherlock in that series. I wonder how many can remember him as Freddy in the movie of "My Fair Lady" with Julie Andrews and Rex Harrison. Gosh how young Jeremy Brett looked in that movie. Remember him singing (mouthing) the song "On The Street Where I live?" I don't know, maybe I got the title wrong, but you get the picture. I said how young Brett looked in that movie, however, I looked much younger then,too ) But the two I always connect with Holmes and Watson are the two guys on the left. They literally become Holmes and Watson. I don't think they need an introduction! I'm filled with nostalgia every time I see those two together.

Bill H

Bill, I think the song is "On the Street Where You Live." I wonder if Freddie would be considered a stalker today (haha). I have the tape of "My Fair Lady" and will watch it again to see what you mean by "young."

I'm sure PBS will repeat the series you missed. They always repeat everything.

Folks, I have to correct a mistake I made in my last post. It was Audrey Hepburn not Julie Adams that starred in My Fair Lady.
Yes, Horselover, you will see how young Brett (Freddie) looks

Bill H

I, too, read all the Nancy Drew books. Best Christmas of my childhood was when I got 12 of them for Christmas. My daughter still has them; however, the pages are all yellowed. In the old issues Nancy drove a roadster. The reprints have changed with the times.

FlaJean, I know how you feel about not wanting to part with treasured books. I also have several books whose pages have yellowed with time. My parents made sure I always received a book for a gift at Christmas time. We just don't want to part with old friends or should we call them family members.

Bill H

Bill, Your confusion about the star of "My Fair Lady" is understandable. It was Julie Andrews who starred in the original stage production of the musical, and was very disappointed to see the part go to Audrey Hepburn in the movie. Hepburn was much more well known at that time, but she did not do her own singing. THAT's HOLLYWOOD!

Horselover, I may be mistaken but I believe Julie Andrews did the singing for Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady. What do you think?

Bill H

Sorry Bill, It was Marni Nixon who did an outstanding job on the vocals for "My Fair Lady." Julie Andrews was filming "Mary Poppins" at that time, a role for which she won an Oscar and the fame she sought. Success is the best revenge!

Ooooops. See, I was mistaken:o)

Bil

I discovered a web site giving the top twenty-five mysteries as the choice of their book club. I'm going to list six of them now. Perhaps you would care to comment on them. In this way I can learn more about your taste in mystery stories and I may be able to develop a format to your liking.

1. Trent's Last Case--E.C Bentley
2. The Thirty-Nine Steps--John Buchan
3. Inspector French's Greatest Case--Freedman Wills Croft
4. The Benson Murder case--S.S Van Dine
5. The Murder of Roger Ackroyd--Agatha Christie
6. The Maltese Falcon--Dashell Hammet

These six were chosen from random but all were in the top ten stories. If you wish I will post more at a later time.

Bill H

Yes, list some more.

I tried reading the 39 Steps last year, but something didn't click.

I've read and enjoyed the last two on the list, have read others by Van Dine. I'd be interesting in knowing about Inspector French's Greatest Case!

I read "Trent's Last Case", but so-o-o long ago. I don't really remember it. I've read Christie's "Murder of Roger Ackroyd", but I've read so many of her mysteries I couldn't give you the details of that one either. Not sure about "The Thirty-Nine Steps". The Maltese Falcon I saw on film; have not read the book. I can see that the above will be totally unhelpful, Bill. ...Babi

nlhome, glad you liked the listings of the "oldies" I posted in a few days I will be posting others that were in the top twenty five old timers.
nlhome, writes: "I'd be interesting in knowing about Inspector French's Greatest Case!
Can any of you folks help by telling us something about that story?
BaBi, the listings I posted above also carry the names of there authors. Perhaps you would like to discuss them. Also, in the heading the top link that will take you to many of the popular old time authors. Or, since you do like the old time mysteries and the authors, perhaps you could tell us what you would like to discuss.
Hearing what all you readers would like to discuss will help make this discussion much more entertaining.

Bill H

Is anyone a fan of Inspector Maigret? It's interesting to see the difference in the way the French Police operate, and our own system of Justice. Also Maigret always gets so involved with both victim and suspect.

Horselover, thank you for introducing another character to our discussion. I haven't any books of his, but maybe someone else can answer your question.
For all those who may be interested in these books you can find them by following this link.Horselover, thank you for introducing another character to our discussion. I haven't any books of his, but maybe someone else can answer your question.
For all those who may be interested in these books you can read about them by following this link
Maigret
Let us know what you think of them.

Bill H

nlhome, These four novels will round out the top ten of the top twenty-five mysteries that were posted by an online book club. From time to time, I will post the remaining fifteen stories. Perhaps some of our readers who have not read these novels may be interested in reading these oldies or learning about the authors.

l. The Murders in the Rue Morgue--Edgar Allan Poe (1841)
2. The Moonstones--Wilkie Collins (1868)
3. Adventures o Sherlock Holmes--Arthur Conan Doyle (1892)
4. The Hound of the Baskervilles--Arthur Conan Doyle (1902)
As you can see these four are all over a hundred years old, but still remain popular as the some of the best of the old time mystery stories.
The following stories were listed in the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: "Scandal in Bohemia," The Red Headed League," "The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle," and "The Adventure of the Speckled Band." I quote."These tales are the best of Doyle or anybody else."
T.S. Elliot had this to say about "The "Moonstones:" "…the first and greatest of English detective novels."
Perhaps we could have your thoughts about these stories or the authors.

Bill H

Bill, When you posted your list of the top mysteries, I realized that, except for "The Maltese Falcon," I could not remember any of them very well, although I had read them all at one time or another. Now I will have to go back and read them again--an enjoyable project, but one I will have to struggle to find the time for. Perhaps it might be fun to have the posters compile their own top ten lists.

I know I have read all 4 that you just mentioned, but like horselover I don't remember them that well. Except for the Hound of the Baskervilles. That one stuck with me. Yet I don't really like it.

Last summer I printed a list of "The 100 Favorite Mysteries of the Century" from the Independent Mystery Booksellers Association and started to read them. Many I had already read, some I didn't remember reading before until I opened the book. It was a fun summer project. They were arranged alphabetically by author, and I didn't even get a third of the way before I ran out of summer. I hope to get back to the list before we get too far into this century.

BILL, maybe we could choose one of the titles from the 'top books', re-read it, since most of us have forgotten most of them, and share our thoughts about it. I suspect we would all have some insights now we didn't have the first time around, and gain more from talking about it with others. ...Babi

Good idea, BaBi! It would save me from having to reread them all right now.

Horselover, that is a good idea of having the readers post there favorite top-ten. It would be fun reading what they chose and how they differ from that book club's choosing.
BaBi, I like that idea of yours. Perhaps we can get together and chose one of them. That would be a lot of fun. We could have a vote on which one to discuss
nlhome,
"The 100 Favorite Mysteries of the Century"
That would be a lot of reading, but they would make for a good winter read, also. I like mysteries best in the winter. I suppose the cold weather lends itself to those kind of stories beside an open fire place.
Do you folks think we should wait for the readers to post there top ten before we vote?

Bill H

Are we posting our personal Top Ten or choosing among the list of 100 Tops and can I find the 100 list online?

Marvelle

Marvelle, we can either list our own favorite top ten or we can chose from the twenty-five I found on a book club web site. However, I can't find that URL again. I printed out--thank heavens- the twenty-five they did post. I have posted ten of the twent-five I found and I will ASAP post the remaining fifteen. Then we can start choosing what we would like to discuss.
But please let's all limit the ones of our own choosing or else we will have so many that we won't be able to see the trees for the forest ;O)

Biss H

Hahahaha, you have me pegged, BILL. Once I think of a favorite mystery, I think of another... and another... and another.... and .... Limits are difficult but 10 it will be. I'll start thinking of my Personal Top Ten list now.

Marvelle

OH, DEAR! MY FAVORITE TEN MYSTERY CLASSICS? WITH MY MEMORY? OH, DEAR! ...Babi

Folks, this was Steeler Football Sunday that's why I'm posting so late.
I just wanted to say it dosen't have to be ten. You can tell us just one, two or three of your favorite mystieries. In fact,perhps ten may be a little too much for us all here.:O) I just posted those I found on the Internet.

Bill H

Here are the other fifteen mysteries I promised you that I found from that book club. I'm going to see if I can find the URL again so that you see them for your self. There are notations after all of the novels and they are quite good.

• The Murder at the Vicarage by Agatha Christie (1930). . • Mystery Mile by Margery Allingham (1930). • Maigret Stonewalled by Georges Simenon (1931) . Malice Aforethought Margery Allen (1931)
• The Chinese Orange Mystery by Ellery Queen (1934). • The Nine Tailors by Dorothy Sayers (1934). . The Thin Man by Dashiell Hammett (1934) • The Amazing Adventures of Father Brown by G.K. Chesterton (1935). • Gaudy Night by Dorothy Sayers (1936)
. Hamlet Revenge! By Michael Innes (1937). • Artists in Crime by Ngaio Marsh (1938). • Brighton Rock by Graham Greene (1938). • Too Many Cooks by Rex Stout (1938). • The Crooked Hinge by John Dickson Carr (1938). . The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler (1939).

This rounds the the twenty five mysteries chosen by that on line book club. What do you think of these.

Bill H

GANG, I've got two lists. One is my selfish list of 10 favorites no matter how obscure the work/author. The second one lists 10 favorites that are available online or still in print, since we may choose from our lists for a discussion. Shall I post both or the latter list?

BILL, from the latest authors I found many old favorites: Chandler's The Big Sleep, Hammett's The Thin Man and Chesterton's The Amazing Adventures of Father Brown. I don't remember Artists in Crime and I hope I can find it at my library. Would like to try it. Anyone here with comments about it?

Too Many Cooks is the one book of Stout's that I cannot bear to read. I couldn't finish it. It's self-congratulating PC for its time, yet today reads like preening, smugly unknowing bigotry.

Marvelle

Not necessarily in order from highest to lowest, and subject to change upon input from others (and I'm going to the library tomorrow with names from Bill's extrapolated list and read madly). I like plot, character, setting ... a good narrative with strong writing. Any books of the below authors can be substituted for the titles I'm listing because their writing is consistently fine.

1 -- Arthur Conan Doyle, "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" any story

2 -- James M. Cain, "The Postman Always Rings Twice"

3 -- Dashiell Hammett, "The Maltese Falcon" The movie is truer to the book than any other book-to-movie I've seen.

4 -- Frances & Richard Lockridge, "Murder Has Its Points" a Mr. & Mrs. North Mystery; A fun and healthier relationship amongst the Norths than The Thin Man's Nick & Nora Charles. Pam North is smarter than Nora and holds her own and the couple is downright charming. Plus they have two Siamese cats (Richard L was a cat lover and Frances L was won over). The most accessible North anthology that includes this title is "The North Quartet."

5 -- Ross McDonald, "The Chill"

6 -- John Dickson Carr, "The Case of the Constant Suicides"

7 -- G. K. Chesterton, "The Amazing Adventures of Father Brown" I'm especially fond of "The Innocence of Father Brown"

8 -- Tony Hillerman, "Sacred Clowns"

9 --Raymond Chandler, "The Big Sleep"

10 -- Earl Derr Biggers, "Keeper of the Keys" Charlie Chan mystery I like this title because it starts on a train ride to Truckee, California in the Sierra Nevadas, the seasonal territory of my mother's Native American family. Charlie Chan handles prejudice with sublime grace while he solves murders.

_________________________

If Tony Hillerman is not a classic mystery because he is a contemporary writer, then I'd substitute Nagio Marsh (any book) or my childhood favorite -- the start of my passion for mysteries -- The Cripple Creek Gang series.

Marvelle

It's been a while since I've read the Charlie Chan books (different from the movies) and as a girl I tended to filter out anything objectionable in a story ... so I will look at some Charlie Chan this week to verify it's still a good read. Or does someone have a fresh memory of the books? Are they okay?

I made my usual slip with the children's series, it isn't Cripple Creek (another book entirely) but the Sugar Creek Gang.

Marvelle

MARVELLE, thanks for reminding me of the Lockridges. I had forgotten them, and I enjoyed every one of those books.

One of the Sherlock Holmes stories might be a good place to start. Being shorter than the books, it would allow us to dip a toe into the water before plunging in. ...Babi

Marvelle, good list choice of novels. They jogged my memory of some I had forgotten. I hope you find all of them the library.
I liked the Mr. and Mrs. North series of novels also, and your are right about the relationship between those two. Sometimes it was not as grand as the movde portrayed it to be. T hank you for mentioning the Charlie Chan books.
Would the Foo Man Chu stories qualify as old mystery stories?

Bill H

Here it is, all thirty chapters of it: The Insidious Dr Fu Manchu

I don't know if you would class it as a mystery or as a horror story, Bill.

Phyll, thank you for that link to the first Fu Manchu story. For now let's classify it as a mystery. I can see where it makes interesting reading!

Bill H

Bill, I'm glad to see Maigret turn up on your list of the remaining twenty-five. Also another by Hammet, and one of my all-time favorites, "The Big Sleep." Another of my favorites, although it isn't on your list is "Murder on the Orient Express." I also like Ross McDonald, who is on Marvelle's list.

By the way, we are doing "On The Street Where You Live" for "Last Man Standing." You might want to join in and see if you remember all the words.

HORSELOVER, I like Murder On the Orient Express and also the movies made from the book. I never get bored with the story. In the 60s -- I think it was the 60s -- I took a trip on the Orient Express because of the book; I had to have the experience and it was quite cosmopolitan and sinfully luxurious.

I'm not sure why (maybe its a moving locked room) but I'm a sucker for murder-on-the-train books, and I'd like to make up a list of titles. Does anyone else have a fondness for these mysteries?

Marvelle

Here I am and how busy you have all been. My brother left and then I spent the next week getting the house back into disorder..that is right ...I am not a good housekeeper so when I have company everything has to be displaced to appear neat.

Found an A A FAIR book when I was moving somethings around...and have put it aside to read when time allows.

I cant think of a mystery book I didnt like. Some are better than others but they are just my cup of tea. Murder on the Orient Express...how great you were able to take that trip Marvelle. When we lived in Europe we took a lot of trains and I have to say there was always something special about the little rooms we enjoyed. Even when I travel in the states I take sleeping cars...even took a bedroom once but couldnt see the improvement over the other accomadations. Even on our trains you could see a story being written there.

You all have jogged my memory regarding past writers and the detectives they portrayed. I guess out of sight out of mind. Is Mickey Spillane considered a mystery writer or just a detective story...

Back later ...anna

Babi, that is a good idea of selecting a short Sherlock Holmes story. As you said, it would give us a chance to dip the toe in the water.
By he way, folks, you can read the Sherlock Holmes stories by clicking on the link in the heading. You don't even have to buy or get the book from the library.
However, I'm going to have to find out if we can discuss a book or story in a general discussion. I may have to put it up as a proposed book discussion and have the ones that would like to discuss what we select sign on there. What do you folks think about doing that?

You see, this is a general discussion area and discussing any one story, book or whatever may brake the continuity of the general discussion for the others that are not discussing the selected story.

Bill H

Horselover, I thought of you as I was posting the Maigret novel. . Happy you found it there.
Marvelle, I know of another couple who took a trip on the Orient Express after either reading the book or seeing the movie.
Anna, I do the same as you. Every thing goes into cupboards or drawers when I have company to make my place look neat. Then, after the guests leave, I have to hunt for the things I hid and sometimes I can't find them till long after.

Sure Mickey Spillane qualifies. we talk about both mystery stories and detective stories. I'm glad you mentioned that detective. p>Bill H

Marvelle, How lucky you were to actually travel on the Orient Express! The only train I had a bedroom on was an overnight trip from NY to Chicago.

Yes, train mysteries are fascinating. The classic, of course, is "Strangers on a Train." This has given rise to so many plots based on this theme.

Sorry, but Mickey Spillane is one writer I detested. Read part way thru' one, tossed it, and never read another. I never saw the point of filling a good mystery with salaciousness. (Good word, eh?) ..Babi

Do you suppose we could all get together and chose a book or novel for a proposed book discussion from the list that several of us have put up? You see October is just around the corner and it is the perfect month for discussing one of the old time mystery stories.
Perhaps we could all select one, maybe two at the most, and then vote on the one of our choice? If you do so, I can then put it up for a purposed book discussion. Please let me know how you feel about that.

Perhaps we should all agree not to disagree but to vote on the ones that are purposed.Bill

That sounds great, BILL. I'll nominate E.A. Poe's short story "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" since this story invented the private detective genre and inspired Arthur Conan Doyle. I nominate also Conan Doyle's "A Study in Scarlet" which introduced Sherlock Holmes to the public.

I'd also love to see others post their personal Top Ten?

Marvelle

Bill, "The Ladies of Covington...." is scheduled for October, but I guess we can discuss one of our favorite mysteries, too.

No problem there, Horselover. Doyle, Poe, and the Ladies of Covington are all easy reading.

Either of the two Marvelle proposed sound like a good starting point to me, Bill. Whatever you all decide is fine with me. ...Babi

Marvelle, has suggested two very good stories and they both can be read on line by just clicking the links in the heading. As Marvelle pointed out, they started the love of the private eye detective stories. They are:
E.A. Poe's short story "The Murders in the Rue Morgue"
Conan Doyle's "A Study in Scarlet."
I believe either one would make a very good discussion. If no one has any other suggestions, may we bring this to a vote? Since the suggested will be for your entertainment I would like you to chose.
I apologize for not posting yesterday but I couldn't get on the web site.

Bill H

Is the EA Poe Story available online does any one know? If we can read online it will save trying to find it at the library if it was selected.

Carolyn

If you go up to the heading you'll see the clickable "The Works of Edgar Allan Poe" and other authors as well.

Marvelle

Welcome, Carolyn to the discssion and thank you Marvelle for pointing the way for Kiwi Lady. You can also read the complete Sherlock Holmes stories by clicking on The Complete Sherlock Holmes in the heading.

Bill H

I am fortunate to have a volume of Poe's Complete Works and of Doyle's Complete Sherlock Holmes. I can read at my leisure whichever the majority may choose. Poe's might be my first choice, for it's significance as an early (earliest?) example of the genre. ..Babi

BaBi, there seems to be a consensus for Poe's Murder in the Rue Morgue. Anybody else before we make the selection?

Bill H

Fine with me. I'll pull out the volume of Poe and start reading. It will be a good read, even if the selection does wind up being changed. Gruesome tale, as I recall. But then, it's Poe, isn't it? ..Babi

Well, with your approval and if there are no objections, I'll put E. A. Poe's "Murder in the Rue Morgue." in the Proposed Books discussions. It is a short story and can be read on line. However, I won't be able to schedule it until the last week in October. You see, I have my two week stint in Curious Minds coming up October 12 to October 25 and I would be stretched pretty thin trying to lead three discussions: Those three would be: Classical Mysteries, Curious Minds and Murder in the Rue Morgue.
Would those who are interested in discussing this story please let me know here?

Bill H

Hi Bill, I'd be interested. It could be a short discussion?

Marvelle

Maybe it's my computer, but when I click on Murders in the Rue Morgue,after clicking The Works of E, A. Poe in the heading, I get a lot of gibberish. Would one of you click Murder in the Rue Morgue and tell me what you get? The rest of the stories seem to be OK.

Bill H

However, I did find another site dedicated to the works of E. A. Poe and this time I was able to read Murder in the Rue Morgue on line with no trouble. Use the link below to take you to the site and then scroll down about a quarter of the way till you see "Poe's stories" and click on "M" that will take you to where you can find the story.
Murder in the Rue Morgue

Bill H

Bill, I don't get gibberish on the original Poe heading link, but I like the new link you've found. The format is attractive in the new link and the stories have a larger font which makes them easy to read. Thanks!

Marvelle

Marvelle, I like the format better on the new link, too. In the orginal link, I don't know why the Rue Morgue opens with all kind of squares circles and letters when I click on it.

Bill H

One of the books suggested that I read was "The House on the Strand--du Maurier. I got the book from half-books.com and started reading the novel. I’m only a few pages into the story but I can see it is going to be a very good read. I've never been disappointed by any of Dame du Maurier's books.

Bill H

Folks, I have a little quiz for all you E. A. Poe enthusiasts (and non enthusiasts) This is the first two lines of one of his poems.
"Ah, broken is the golden bowl!--the spirit flown for ever!
Let the bell toll--a saintly soul floats on the Stygian river--…"
All posters who give the correct name of the poem will receive ten Confederate dollars from either Confederate President Jefferson Davis or General Robert E. Lee )

Bill H

I'm just kidding about the Confederate dollars

Bill H

"LENORE"

(And I was already spending my Confederate dollars. How disappointing!)

Horselover, good for you. I can just see Jefferson Davis dispatching Rhett Butler with the ten Confederate dollars Be on the look out for Rhett, however, he has a long way to travel. Do you think he will be traveling by horseback?
Perhaps some of you could come with the first two lines in the first chapter of your favorite mystery story. It could be a novel by Christie, Sayers, Doyle, Poe or any of your favorite old time authors. Perhaps even another of Poe's poems. If you would like to do this just tell us the name of the author and the first two lines in the first chapter of the novel or poem you select. That’s a good way for us to find out what our favorite mysteries are. I think it could be fun.

Bill H

I'll start the ball rolling In Conan Doyle's collection of short stories "Adventures of Sherlock Holmes." One short story begins with this sentence in the first chapter.
"Of all the problems which have been submitted to my friend Mr. Sherlock Holmes for solution during the years of our intimacy…"
What is the name of that story? Now folks it's your turn to select one to make me and the rest hunt up the name of what you select.

Bill H

Do we have to do this from memory, Bill? I guess that would be the fairest way, except I doubt that our collective memory is all that hot. If I can go looking for the story, I might be able to find it. You'll have to establish the rules of the game. :>) ...Babi

BaBi, Gosh no. Don't even try to do it from memory. I couldn't even begin to do it. I think it would be a fun thing for all of us here. Well, I don't like to use the word RULES it sounds so regimented.
But there are so many old time mysteries by so many old time authors it may be a little too much for us to find. I think we should limit our opening lines to either Poe's stories or poems or the Sherlock Holmes stories. These can be found using the links I posted in the heading. The last two lines I posted can be found in the opening lines of one of the short Sherlock Holmes stories which can be found in one of the twelve stories of "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes."
Conan Doyle divided the works of his Holmes in several parts. The short stories are listed under "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes." "The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes," and "The Return of Sherlock Holmes." The first two contain twelve short stories, but the "Return of Sherlock Holmes" has thirteen..
Book Three, Four, Five, and Six of Holmes are novels or novelettes.

Bill H

Perhaps some of you can think of something you would like to do along these lines.

Bill H

Bill, Do we have to be limited to Poe and Conan Doyle? Perhaps we could give the author and the quoted lines, and see who among us comes up with the title.

I am looking out for Rhett, but if I'm not mistaken, he was living somewhere in the South, and has probably been blown off his horse by Isabel.

It's too easy if you limit it to just two authors. For example, your lines come from "The Adventure Of The Engineer's Thumb." You need to make us think harder.

Horselover, No, we don't have to limit it to those two. You folks can select any old time mystery and author you wish. That's fine with me. I just didn't want to make it too difficult for anybody, but let's try it as you suggested and see how it goes!
Congratulations! I see you found it again. Don't give up on Rhett. He's a very resourceful fellow.

Bill H

Hi Bill and Horselover, love the game. Congrats Horselover, now rich in Confederate bills! Here are some first lines:

"To the murder of _________________, and later the equally incredible crime in Cagliostro Street, many fantastic terms could be applied -- with reason. Those of _______'s friends who like impossible situations will not find in ___ casebook any puzzle more baffling or more terrifying."

Is this too easy or too difficult? Please let me know if I should name the author.

Marvelle

Hi, Marvelle, glad you joined in. Happy you did. We have been naming the author that gives us some clue as to what we are looking for. Some may not be familiar with what you posted and would have no idea where to look. However, someone may know it already.

Bill H

John Dickson Carr, aka Carter Dickson

Marvelle

Marvelle, thank you. Now we can start looking. I have to look my memory is not what it used to be. If it ever was. I remember reading what you posted but can't think of the story off hand.

Bill H

The Murders in the Rue Morgue is now a Proposed Discussion. Here's a link.
MURDERS IN THE RUE MORGUE
Will the readers that expressed interest in having this discusson please post there? I will need at least three readers besides myself in order to post a starting time and discussion schedule. For a short story such as this the discussion will not be much more than a weak.
Of course, you will be welcomed by these three hosts.
Bill H Thank you.

Bill H

While we are waiting for an answer to Marvelle's quiz (I must confess I'm having no luck in finding the title), I'll offer another: What is the title of the Raymond Chandler short mystery with these lines from the first paragraph: "George Millar, night auditor at the Carlton Hotel, was a dapper wiry little man, with a soft deep voice like a torch-singer's."

Bill H

Horselover, if you are still interested in discussing Ru Morgue it is now in proposed and will soon be moved into Upcoming Attractions along with the schedule very shortly

Bill H

I haven't laid eyes on a Raymond Chandler in years, but I see B&N still has them in stock. I wonder if my library still carries them? I guess I thought a lot of these old authors were to be found only in used book stores now. (Wrong again, Babi)

BILL, when I return home this evening I'll post the TITLE of the John Dickson Carr quote if that's alright with you? I also have some brief background information on the story. Let me know if you prefer that I keep the title to myself a bit longer.

I've been having a ball reading stories in the headings link and I'm on my second Charlie Chan. First I read "Keeper of the Keys" and it's as interesting as I remembered. It's a little dusty with age but has aged much better than the movies.

Marvelle

Warning. Spoiler re my previous quote of first-lines. Title of work is provided.

The quote is from The Three Coffins by John Dickson Carr, widely considered the master of locked room mysteries. The novel was first published in Britain as The Hollow Man and later published in the U.S. as The Three Coffins. Here's a more complete quote from the first lines:

"To the murder of Professor Grimaud, and later the equally incredible crime in Cagliostro Street, many fantastic terms could be applied -- with reason. Those of Dr. Fell's friends who like impossible situations will not find in his casebook any puzzle more baffling or more terrifying. Thus: two murders were committed, in such fashion that the murderer must not only have been invisible but lighter than air. According to the evidence, this person killed his first victim and literally disappeared. Again, according to the evidence, he killed his second victim in the middle of an empty street, with watchers at either end; yet not a soul saw him, and no footprint appeared in the snow."

Some consider The Three Coffins to be the best work of JDC while other readers prefer different stories. However, in the middle of The Three Coffins is a riff by Dr. Fell, famously known as The Locked Room Lecture, that's a classic. It's the lecture, I believe, that keeps locked-room mystery fans interested in this story.

For more on the creation of Dr. Gideon Fell and the locked room lecture he gives in the story see:

On Dr. Fell

Dr. Fell was an homage by the American author to GK Chesterton.

Marvelle

Marvelle, thank you for posting the answer to your question. I don't believe I was about to find that story. Come to think of it, I did read somewhere that Carr was considered the master of the locked room mysteries.Thanks, too, for the link you gave about Dr. Fell. I read it all the way through and discovered some things I never thought of about mystery novels. We learn something new every day. Thanks again, Marvelle.
You know, I'm learning about so many different myster novels here and I keep wondering if I'll be able to read them all ) Such an interesting title "The Three Coffins."

Bill H

Murders in the Rue Morgue has been advanced to Upcoming Attractions as a read only until Sept. 28. The schedule has been posted for it also. Here is a link.
Murders in the Rue Morgue

Hope you all join in.

BILL, I'm stumped for the Raymond Chandler first-lines but this gives me the impetus to take a look at some of his stories that I don't have on my shelves. Maybe I'll find the title before someone beats me to it.

I vaguely remember a wonderful PBS show about Dashiell Hammett and Raymond Chandler (I think other writers of the California scene were also included). It talked about Hammett's life, his influences, visited the tiny hotel room where he started writing in San Francisco and then about Raymond Chandler, the transplanted Englishman, who wanted to write hard-boiled detective stories like Hammett. Chandler was very moved to receive a letter from Hammett that praised his writing and, according to the PBS story, he kept the letter and re-read it many times. Golly, I wish PBS would run that story again.

Marvelle

Marvelle, that was a lovely post you gave us about Chandler and Hammett. Thank you. I hope you and the rest are successful in finding the title of the story whose lines I posted.

Bill H

Bill, Count me in for "Rue Morgue."

Horselover, you are counted in. I'm happy you decided to join that discussion.

Bill H

Hooray!! I've got the title, Bill! I had to look though, my memory isn't that great. I only had at home an omnibus of some of Chandler's more popular novels and the first-lines weren't there -- The Big Sleep; Farewell, My Lovely; The High Window; The Lady In the Lake.

The line quoted was: "George Millar, night auditor at the Carlton Hotel, was a dapper wiry little man, with a soft deep voice like a torch-singer's." I checked a book of Chandler's short stories and the story is

The King in Yellow

Is this one of your favorites? I'm hooked into reading these short stories and more.

Marvelle

Here's one to test your memory:

I first heard Personville called Poisonville by a red-haired mucker named Hickey Dewey in the Big Ship in Butte.

Ahh Horselover, I expect that, per Bill, you're providing the first-line of a classical mystery so we'll need the author too.

Marvelle

BILL, any special reason why you chose Chandler's short story "The King In Yellow"?

Marvelle

He's the author. I knew it immediately. Red Harvest

And now I will have to reread the book - because of course I remembered the first line but need to refresh the story.

Did I answer too quickly? It's just that these are some of my favorite books - perhaps the author's style is what attracts me. No wasted words, yet the descriptions create vivid pictures.

And I will also have to read The King in Yellow by Chandler. That's one I haven't read.

N

N, wow! No, you didn't answer too early. BILL requested that we list the author with the first-lines but you were able to guess it anyway. Congratulations! Red Harvest... I've heard that praised but haven't read it. I think this is another I'll have to add to my to-read list.

Horselover, is that one of your favorites?

I just finished The King In Yellow. Perhaps we can share our reactions after others here read it?

Marvelle

First I was off line yesterday that is why I didn't respond so quiickly.
Marvelle, good for you for coming up with the answer so quickly. The reason I picked that one is because I discovered an old books in my book case titled "13 Short Mystey Stories." Of course there were 13 short mystery stories and when I leafed through the book I randomly picked Chandler's The King in Yello. Now I'll have to read it.
nlhome,wow what a remarkable memory you have. Is Red Harvest one of your all time favorites. Yes as Marvelle pointed out, it is only fair to list the author.
Horselover is this a quote "I first heard Personville called Poisonville by a red-haired mucker named Hickey Dewey in the Big Ship in Butte." That sounds like a tough one. Perhaps you could give us the authors name.

Bill H

I am getting ready for Murders in the Rue Morgue by rereading it again. So many things I had forgotten, but once I started reading it all came back to me. After that I will read "The King in Yellow" How did you like it, Marvelle.
As I was looking over the table of contents for "13 Short Mystery Novels" I seen several of the old time authors we have been talking about., e.g. Leslie Charteris, Rex Stout, Erle Stanley Gardner, du Maurier,etc. I believe I have quite a few stories in this one to keep me reading all through the cold nights that lie ahead. I'll see if I can find a link for this book.

Bill H

Below is a link to the "13 Short Mystery Novels" that I was telling you about. However, they are in the B&N used book dept.
13 Short Mystery Novels

Bill H

CONGRATULATIONS, N!!! This is a very famous opening line, and I suspected it would be easy for any Hammet fan, even without the author being given.

Horselover, you're quite right that Hammett fans recognize the first-line of Red Harvest (although not my all-time favorite, it is considered a classic). But I give N high marks for discovering the title. Well done N!

As for not listing the author's name? Bill requested it as part of the game so I ended up complying with the first-lines I provided. I saw Bill's reasoning when, even with the author, no one came up with the title of this most famous of Locked Room mysteries, "The Three Coffins".

On the other hand, I can understand Horselover's reluctance to list the author's name (I initially had the same reluctance) and I respect anyone's right to to list first-lines only. IMO there's plenty of room in this discussion for different games.

I believe that Bill's level playing field -- of first-line and author -- is challenging (witness "The Three Coffins") while it helps us visit old and new favorites. So I choose to respond only to line/author combinations.

Line/author or line only, it's fun however you play it!

Marvelle

Horselover--

What's with the blue special symbols? I must have missed something.

Hey folks, I think we have a really great game going for us. Cheers to those who can came up with the title without the authors name I think that is remarkable. What great memories you have. But I must admit I'm at a loss without the author's name ( I have a tough time even with it.
How about this one.
"For a law-breaker, in the midst of his law-breaking, to be attempting at the same time to carry on a feud with a chief inspector of police, might be called heroically quixotic."
These are the opening lines from the first chapter of a short story by Leslie Charteris. This game is bringing to my mind all the great authors I had forgotten about.

Bill H

Bill, Did you know there are at least fifty "Saint" books?

Jean, Those aren't special blue symbols. Just a different font color, like this one.

Marvelle, You have a point about all of us sticking to one set of rules. I will give the author from now on.

I think I would have guessed Leslie Charteris from that opening line, Bill. The combination of a lawbreaker feuding with the police chief, and the term 'heroically quixotic', are clues that readily suggest the Saint. I didn't know, tho', until Horselover told us, that there were more than 50 Saint books, none of which I have on hand. I'll just sit back and watch for the answer to this one. ///Babi

Babi, I knew there were a lot of Saint stories but, like you, I didn't know there were fifty of them until Horselover told us. Did any of you watch the Saint programs when it was on TV?

Bill H

Murders in the Rue Morgue opens tomorrow!

Bill H

Tomorrow! Jeepers, I better start reading. I've read the story before of course but its funny how stories can change meanings over time, from one read to the next one, which really means that it's the reader who changes.

Whatever we may conclude about the story itself (like/dislike/neutral), Poe's "...Rue Morgue" was the start of the private detective story and it inspired the creation of Sherlock Holmes. I thought it would be a good intro into the detective genre. I'm quite fond of Poe because of his other stories with which I'm more familiar. IMO his real poems are the short stories with their symbolism and density and the meanings within meanings.

It'll be interesting to see what the group reading uncovers. I always get more out of a book that way because we put out collective heads together and each person contributes individual insights and perspective.

Thanks, Horselover, about the author's name.

Bill, I never read a "Saint" book but I do remember the television series which didn't attract me. Maybe that's why I didn't read the books (50 of them, Babi? wow). I have no idea about the title for the first-lines. It sounds, Bill, like you enjoy the "Saint" books so I'll add another him to my to-read list. This list is getting longer by the minute and is a wonderful problem to tackle.

For now I need to read Poe's "...Rue Morgue" for the 28th.

Marvelle

Bill, Next month for Halloween, our town library is presenting a one-character play about Edgar Allan Poe. "Edgar, holding an hourglass, paces in the office of theatrical agents in New York in 1848. He pleads his case for a lecture tour with readings of his controversial tales of murder and madness, all the while professing his sanity, reliability and fame. He needs the work. He carries a portfolio of his bizarre illustrations and excerpts of prose and poetry he proposes to read. Desperate to convince them, he steps to the podium and presents his dark, melancholy, spellbinding readings...as the hourglass measures his heartbeats."

What a way to spend Halloween! I can't wait.

Horselover, that sounds like a perfect Halloween. Enjoy!

Marvelle

Horselover, sounds like your Halloween is going to a lot of fun.
Marvelle maybe we can do a Saint story sometime.
Murders in the Rue Morgue is now open.

Bill H

Several of us are having an interesting discussion in "Murders in the Rue Morgue." It's not to late for others to join us in this classical tale of Edgar Allan Poe.

Bill H

In case any of you are still curious as to the title of the story I posted the opening lines of, it is the The Lawless Lady by Leslie Charteris.

Bill H

Lawless Lady now goes on my to-read list, Bill. Funny, I read so many mysteries but have never read a Saint. Was it Roger Moore who played the Saint on television?

Marvelle

I don't remember who played The Saint on TV, Marvelle. I do remember I found them disappointing as I felt the show never really captured the character Leslie Charteris created. Perhaps it was just a case of my having formed a firm mental image of Simon Templar, and the casting of the role just didn't fit for me. I read these books long, long ago, and The Saint really captured my imagination. ...Babi

I just googled for information on The Saint and his author. I only remember the Roger Moore television show but apparently other actors also played The Saint. Leslie Charteris was an interesting man and maybe what appealed to many of his readers was the image of the Saint as an outlaw Robin Hood.

Who Was Leslie Charteris?

The above link is to an Australian Saint Club that also has some good information on the Saint ('Who is the Saint?') and the books etc. Here's another link below that talks about Charteris and The Saint.

Leslie Charteris (1907-1993)

I include the above link because it talks a bit about the influences in the creation of The Saint. All this makes me interested in reading some of the stories.

Marvelle

Marvelle, good links!! I'm learning a lot from this discussion.
I remember Roger Moore playing the Saint on TV. Was it George Sanders (Saunders?) that played the role in the movies of the Saint. Sanders was sophisticated enough to play the role.

Bill H

I'm so busy jumping back and forth between Classical Mysteries, Rue Morgue and Horatio's Drive I sometimes forget which discussion I'm in.
By the way if you haven't visited Horatio's Drive, I heartily recommend doing so it's a lot of fun. I saw Horselover over there and I believe Horselover would agree with me.

Bill H

Apparently, Sanders and Louis Hayward and others played the Saint in movies. The sublinks in the Austrailian Saint Club has that info under 'Who Is the Saint' and I especially liked the sublink on the Stick Man about how he came about and his different guises on bookcovers.

Marvelle

Oh, yes, Bill! The discussion about wonderful "old cars" brings back many fond memories.

Here's another first line for those who would like to try guessing the title of another Hammet classic:

"Mr. Leopold Gantvoort is not at home," the servant who opened the door said, "but his son, Mr. Charles, is--if you wish to see him."

Folks, you can listen to a reading of Poe's story "The Purloined Letter" by using this link scoll down to see all the stories. You may want to bookmark the site for further listening an reading enjoyment.
Audio Stories
This link also has other audio stories as well as reading on line stories you can either listen to or read. I also posted this link in Murders in the Rue Morgue. However, I post it here for our Classical Mystery readers who may not have joined the Rue Morgue discussion.

Bill H

Marvelle, I forgot all about Louis Hayward! Didn't he also play the swashbuckling fencing hero in some of the old classic movies?
Horselover, now we have to put our old time dective brains to work again in order to find the answer to your clue!!

Bill H

I think Hayward was in some swashbucklers. I'd like to see him as The Saint to compare to Roger Moore's performance.

I love Hammett too, Horselover. There's a crispness to his writing and the stories are definitely noir.

"Mr. Leopold Gantvoort is not at home," the servant who opened the door said, "but his son, Mr. Charles, is -- if you wish to see him."

From "The Tenth Clew,"

a Continental Op short story. I was going to provide a synopsis of the story but realized I can't do that without giving away the puzzle and spoiling anyone's reading pleasure. Anything by Hammett is a treat to read IMO. Needless to say, the clue aka clew is crucial to the solution of the mystery.

Marvelle

Right you are, Marvelle!

Hi! I'm a big fan of Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett. Anyone read "The Glass Key" by Dashiell Hammett? Of course "The Maltese Falcon" has always been a favorite of mine.

I just recently read "The Mike Hammer Collection: I, the Jury, My Gun is Quick and Vengeance is Mine."

I also read a great collection of short stories entitled, "Fifty Best Mysteries". The book covers short stories from the forties, fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties. It's a great read. It was orginally published as "Fifty Years of the Best from Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine."

Scrawler (Anne Of Oregon)

I came across a small Raymond Chandler book in the library today that has both "Farewell, My Lovely" and "The Lady in The Lake". Naturally, I snatched it up! I don't remember if I ever actually read these, or just saw the movies. Wasn't Robert Mitchum in "Farewell, My Lovely? Loved that man! ..Babi

Scrawlwr, welcome to the discussion,now that you found us please don't be a stranger. We welcome the input of all our readers.
The heading of this discussion has this link Antique Detective Stories Does the book you spoke of have any of these novels?

Bill H

Murder My Sweet. aka Farewell My Lovely by Raymond Chandler.
Murder My Sweet,--1944-- starring Dick Powell Claire Trevor and Anne Shirley was the movie title of Chandlers novel. I have no idea why they changed the name. I got this information from the Internet Movie Data base.
However, in 1975 Robert Mitchum along with Charlotte Rampling and John Ireland did star in Chandlers "Farewell, My Lovely. The IMDb credits this one as following the book more closely than the Powell movie.
If you folks would like to use the Internet Movie Data Base, just type Keyword IMDB.

Bill H

Thanks for mentioning the IMDB site, Bill. That's a neat site. ..Babi

Hi BillH! I hope this is the information you needed: Contents: The Forties: The Clue of the Red Wing by John Dickson Carr Lost Star by C. Daly King The Bloomsbury Wonder by Thomas Burke Dressing-up by W. R. Burnett Malice Domestic by Philip MacDonald I can find my way out by Nagaio Marsh The Fourth Degree by Hugh Pentecost Midnight Adventure by Michael Arlen A study in white by Nickolas Blake The phantom guest by Frederick Irving Anderson

The Fifties: As simple as ABC by Ellery Queen Money to Burn by Margery Allingham The Gentlest of the Brothers by David Alexander One-way Street by Anthony Armstrong Murder at the Dog Show by Mignon G. Eberhart Always Trust a Cop by Octavus Roy Cohen The Withered Heart by Jean Potts The Girl who Married a Monster by Anthony Boucher Between Eight and Eight by C. S. Forester Knowing what I know now by Barry Perowne

The Sixties: Change of Climate by Ursula Curtiss Life in our time by Robert Bloch The Special Gift by Celia Fremlin A Neat and Tiddy Job by George Harmon Coxe Run - if you can by Charlotte Armstrong Line of Communication by Andrew Garve Danger at Deerfawn by Dorthy B. Huges The Man Who Understood Woman by A.H.Z. Carr Revolver by Avram Davidson The Eternal Chase by Anthony Gilbert

The Seventies: Reasons Unknown by Stanley Ellin Three Ways to Rob a Bank by Harold R. Daniels The Perfect Servant by Helen Nielsen The Marked Man by David Ely Flowers That Bloom in the Spring by Julian Symons A Nice Place to Stay by Nedra Tyre Paul Broderick's Man by Thomas Walsh When Nothing Matters by Florence V. Mayberry This is Death by Donald E. Westlake Woodrow Wilson's Necktie by Patricia Highsmith

The Eighties: The Jackal and the Tiger by Michael Gilbert The Fix by Robert Twohy One moment of Madness by Edward D. Hoch Loopy by Ruth Rendell The Plateau by Clark Howard The Butchers by Peter Loversey Burning Bridges by James Powell A Good Turn by Robert Barnard Clap Hands, There Goes Charlie Big Boy, Little Boy by Simon Brett

"Fifty Best Mysteries" Edited by Eleanor Sullivan Publisher: Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc. New York copyright 1992 Sixth printing 2001

Scrawler (Anne Of Oregon)

Anne, thank you so much for giving us the names of those top mystery novels and there authors that spanned the decades from the forties to the eighties. So many of them sound so intriguing. I'm writing down the names of some maybe my library will have them. Thanks, Anne, for going to all this work for us.

Bill H

Scrawler Anne, I'm drooling over those titles. Wonder if a reader can 'feel' the change in perspective/time/way of writing when reading the stories from one decade to the next, then to the next, then....? I'll definitely see if I can get the stories from my local library. The list is too good to pass by. Thanks.

Marvelle

Here I am in CA where it's harder to get to this discussion, but I managed to wend my way here on this strange computer. Glad to see you guys are adding to my reading list which is getting longer and longer. Raymond Chandler has always been one of my favorites. I read them over and over. And, of course, Hammet. I think I've read every biography about him.

Well, here we are. It's October the month for witches, hobgoblins and mystery stories. I love this time of year. Logs burning brightly in the fireplace (mine isn't as big as the one in the house on Rue Morgue) and reading a good mystery story in the evening, not to mention getting ready for Halloween.
Anne from Oregon, of the fifty mystery stories you gave us, which one did you like best?
I still belive my favorite mystery stories are the Sherlock Holmes tales. However, I continually think of "Rebecca" by duMaurier as one of my all time favorite reads. I think that qualifies as a mystery. How about you folks?

Bill H

You and I share a common love, Bill. But I don't consider Rebecca as "one" of my favorites but rather as "the" favorite. I have lost count of how many times I have read it and listened to it on audio tape.

Also, I enjoyed tremendously the audio site that (I think it was you) sent us to where Basil Rathbone recited "The Raven". It was wonderful to hear his voice again, with such perfect diction. Actors just don't speak like that, anymore. Maybe the last of that breed was Richard Burton, I think. Rathbone will always be the personification of Sherlock Holmes, both in appearance and speech. I remember him in the movie, "The Hound of the Baskervilles". Wonderfully creepy!

Phyl, good to hear from you. Great minds run in the same channel. You and I agree completely with both Rebecca and Basil Rathbone. I'm happy you enjoyed the audio site I gave. Yes Rathbone does have a distinctive speaking voice. I enjoyed all his movies but, like you, he will always be Sherlock Holmes. to me.

Bill H

Bill H: That's a hard question to answer. It's like having a bowl of M&Ms, or a bag of Lay's potatoe chips, you just can't pick one. I usually go with my favorite authors first and than strike out for new authors. "As Simple as ABC" by Ellery Queen was good. I also like "Big Boy, Little Boy" by Simon Brett and "Between Eight and Eight" by C.S. Forester. "Malice Domestic" by Philip MacDonald was also interesting. But you really can't compare these mysteries because they were written in different periods of time. The style of writing in the 40s and 50s is different from those written in the 80s. There have been so many good writers, it really is hard to choose. I guess I would have to say my all time favorite was Richard Chandler. He could tell a story. Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

Anne, of Oregon, thanks for the message of your top selections of the Fifty Mysteries. I would have a hard time selecting from that list which I would like the best. Anne, I left a message for you in Action/Adventure/Horror, etc. It is in regard to the title of a horror story.

Bill H

And here I didn't even know C. S. Forester wrote any mysteries. I just read all his Hornblower books. I'll have to look into this; I like Forester. .. Babi

Photo from the Sherlockian web site.

I apologize for not being here the past couple of days, but I had doctor appointments that took up quite a bit of time.

As you can see I posted a scene from the Sherlock Holmes story "The Bruce-Partington Plans." Before my hiatus Phyll and I were talking about how much we liked the Sherlock Holmes tales. I believe Horselover and others expressed an interest in doing one of the short Holmes stories. Perhaps if enough of you are interested we can chose one of them for a discussion. Who do you suppose the fellow talking to Holmes and Watson may be?

Bill H

I was clearing out some bookshelves yesterday, and discovered a forgotten "Treasury of Great Mysteries", in two volumes. All the old-timers from Allingham to Sayers! As soon as I get my current library books read so I can return them, I plan to bury my nose in these. Yahoo! ...Babi

BaBi, what a great find. Are you going to tell us the titles of some of the storie? Talk about Serendipity!

Bill H

Oh, boy. There are 19 stories in the two volumes. For starters, I have Christie's "Murder in the Calais Coach"; Chandler's "The Big Sleep"; Charteris' "The Arrow of God"; Carr's "The Incautious Burglar"; Sayer's "The Bone of Contention"; Carter Dickson's "The Man Who Explained Miracles". I picked authors we have discussed recently.

You will also be interested to hear that "Rebecca" is included, with the following note:"The editors believe that this story, originally published as a "straight novel", qualifies as one of the finest mysteries of all time - one of the true immortals." Talk about serendipity! ...Babi

BaBi, you found a treasurer chest when you found that book. Rebecca and the Big Sleep alone make the discovery worthwhile. Last month I felt the same way when I discovered a hard back-- way back in my book case-- called "13 Short Mystery Novels." These 13 short stores were also written by the old time authors we have been talking about. One of them is "Don't Look Now" by Daphne du Maurier. I never heard of that one. Did any of you read that story?
And, BaBi, I certainly agree with that quote about Rebecca. That is a classic. I'm reading a du Maurier's story right now called The House on the Strand. Very good. du Maurier was so blessed with talent.

Bill H

If you are interested in a Sherlock Holmes mystery, "The Surrogate Asssassin" by Christopher Leppek sounds like a good one. It's on my to do list, so I haven't read it as yet. Here's an excerpt from the jacket:

"The game is afoot once again as the world's greatest consulting detective, Sherlock Holmes along with his beloved friend and companion, Doctor Watson, is presented with a case of most singular proportions - unraveling the truth behind the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln - with ramifications that will change the very course of history as we know it!"

I got it from my local library. Write Way Publishing Copyright 1998.

Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

Anne, thank you for telling us about the Sherlock Holmes story.

Bill H

Very little makes me happy, to wit. A bout a month ago I visited the local Barnes and Noble bookstore. Passing through the audio section I spied a package of The Smithsonian Collection of "Old Time Radio Mysteries." The six discs, all in there own separate little Jewel Box, comprise stories from the famous "Inner Sanctum Mysteries," "Lights Out," "The Molle¢ Mystery Theatre," etc. There are twelve great tales in all but the one that really sold me was "A Much Expected Murder" by Gail Ingram and narrated by, now listen to this, Basil Rathbone. Well, that was all that was needed to sell me. I knew I would enjoy hearing that wonderful speaking voice. The collection includes a nice little brochure that explains the stories and has photographs of some of the actors--gosh how young they looked-- and how the sound effects were made and photos of the guy making these sound affects.

I figured since I have a nice little combination radio/CD player I won't have to use the DVD on my computer. October. The perfect month for listening to them. If you are interested in knowing the titles I'll post them also.

Bill H

Oh, how I remember the "Inner Sanctum" radio shows. We were all stationed in front of the radio with ears quivering for the first sound of that creaking door! ...Babi

PBS recently had a wonderful special on the era of the radio. It turns out that its heyday only lasted a decade, yet what a decade for us all to remember it so fondly. I think mysteries worked so well on radio because it added an additional layer of mystery and allowed the listener to use their imagination and become part of the story. That seems to be missing in television.

__________________________________

Bill suggested Sherlock Holmes as our next mini-discussion. I remember Doyle wrote a holiday mystery or perhaps someone can think of a story that interests them? I'm up for discussing any Holmes adventure.

Marvelle

Babi, I also remember those creaking doors. I was in grade school at the time, however, I was allowed to stay up to listen to them. What a treat. My imagination would do for me what TV can't. Can you remember what night that program came on?
Marvelle, I missed the PBS special on the era of radio, darn it. I suppose TV knocked those programs off the air, however, I think there are still some mystery stories on radio.
Perhaps we can all put our collective heads together and decide what our next short mystery discussion will be. Holmes or others. I mentioned Holmes because they can be read on line by clicking the link in the heading.
Hey, folks, don't forget to look in on my Curious Minds discussion going on right now. It's about Fall I think you will like it. Come on over to Curious Minds and tell us about your Autumn experiences. You'll find the link in the on going discussions.

Bill H

If you are looking for some tales of horror, look no further than "Edgar Allan Poe's audio collection featuring Vincent Price and Basil Rathbone. The audio collection includes: The Gold Bug, The Imp of the Perverse, and Ligeia performed by Vincent Price and The Tell-Tale Heart, The Pit and the Pendulum, and The Raven performed by Basil Rathbone. So turn off the TV and all the lights and curl up in your favorite chair next to a crackling fire and listen. (Ok, maybe you can keep a small light on.) I like to listen to this CD on Halloween night.

Scrawler (Anne Of Oregon)

Remember what night Inner Sanctum was on?!! You have go to be kidding. I have trouble remembering which night of the week my current favorite TV shows are on!

A Sherlock Holmes short would be great for our next discussion. What was the one you mentioned earlier, Bill? Was is "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton?" I seem to remember some such title with someone's name. ..Babi

Just a note for all of you fans of classic mystery writing, The Yellow Wallpaper is now up, it's not really a mystery, but it IS a classic short story available completely online. It's the first offering of our Women in Literature series, but not limited to or necessarily about women, I thought that as you appreciate the classics, you might like to join us for that short discussion time, starting November 1.

ginny

Bill, I also remember those radio mysteries with great fondness. My baby sister is seven years younger than I am (a large gap in those days), and I used to scare her when I was babysitting by turning on the creaking door and making all kinds of scarey noises. I was sooo mean!!!

My personal favorite radio show was "The Shadow" and I used to scar my younger sister too. Only she used to get back at me by turning the radio to another station. It usually took me awhile to figure it out, but her giggling used to give it away. Then we'd be off and running until my parents showed up and told us to be quiet, turn off the radio and go to sleep. I recently got those shows on tape from "The Radio Spirit" catalog. Great fun to listen to on a cold, wet night.

Scrawler (Anne from Oregon)

Annie. thank you very much for telling us about Poe's audio collection. I'm going to start looking for it right now. Just imagine Rathbone and Price!!
Babi, it was either The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" or The Boscomb Valley Mystery.
Ginny, thanks for the link. I must look in on that.
Horselover, I bet you had a lot of fun scaring that baby sitter. I can just see it now!
Annie yes, the Shadow. Remember the opeining "The Shadow is in reality wealthy young man about town Lamont Cranston and his lovely girl friend Margo Lane."Remember?

Bill H

Creaking door--

Was that "This is Raymond, your host"? I remember that creaking door well.

Anyone else remember Thatcher Colt? It came on Sunday afternoon just about when we were sitting down to our Sunday dinner (and where has THAT custom gone? Does ANYONE still eat Sunday dinner?) and we begged Dad to let us listen to it. And he did. Foreshadowed TV dinners, I suppose.

Not a mystery, but remember Lionel Barrymore reading Dickens' Christmas Carol? That's another one we heard during a Sunday dinner. He was great. And I had that old 33 1/3 record for years. Now, alas, lost along the way.

Jean, I remember Raymond saying: "This is your host Raymond welcoming you to…". However, I can't remember which program he welcomed me to ) Was it Inner Sanctum or Lights Out Everybody.
Ah, yes, Sunday dinners. I remember those well, and what a great family bonding that was. I suppose some families follow them. You ask what ever happened to that great tradition? . Well, how about Mac Donald's, Burger King, Wendy's, etc. Or just maybe having a couple of nice big pizzas delivered with gallons of soft drinks while watching the National Football Games on Sunday afternoon and evenings?

Bill H

A cold and rainy fall night here in the Pittsburgh region. A good night for reading a mystery. I read one of Poe's tales last night maybe I'll read another tonight. AACould the above been the house in the Rue Morgue?

Bill H

Bill, bite your tongue.

How can you mention McDonald's in the same breath as family Sunday dinner? It was the wonderful smell of the roast or chicken filling the house in the hours before the meal. And depression or no, my mother fed us well. She always said that maybe we didn't have as nice clothes as some of the other kids, but she never put bologna on the table---or even had it in the house. Dad worked in the local bank, and when FDR closed the banks, they kept him on because he was the only one there with a family. He kept the furnace going for the doctors' office upstairs, for half-pay until things got better. I remember when he had the phone taken out, as well as when they brought it back. But we had a good warm house, and good meals. I tried to do the same with my family, but when my husband took off and I had to go to work it tended to slip. And now there's only me.

Jean, do you mean the SeniorNet site took long to load or just Classical Mysteries? I didn't have any trouble getting on either of them. Sometimes it depends on Internet traffic in the location. Just a guess.
It seems like we all had the same idea of having a roast beef or chicken for Sunday dinner. Sometimes we would have a nice pork roast. Oh, how I loved the frickesey gravy I would put over the mashed potatoes when we had chicken. I never hear of that kind of gravy any more. I hope I spelled frickesey OK )

Bill H

Well, no, it isn't spelled correctly, but I can't spell it either, and I know what you meant. Tonight: Potato soup and corn bread. My comfort food. Used to be what I made the week before pay day.

Sounds good, Jeanlock. Personally, I put cheese in my potato soup, and do not put sugar in my cornbread. (It's a mystery to me why some eat sweet cornbread. Maybe it's a Yankee thing.) :>) ...Babi

BaBi--

I also put cheese in some recipes of my potato soup; as for the cornbread, I'm a Yankee. My father-in-law said my cornbread was that damned old Johnnycake. Some recipes are too sweet, tho.

Bill H--

Are you still interested in The Burning Court by John Dickson Carr? I'm working up to a jaunt up to the BIG used bookstore and have a bunch of books to trade, as well as some unused credits. Thought I'd have a look for JDC.

Jean, yes,I'm still interested in "The Burning Court" by JDC. I would like to read one of his books again.

Bill H

The above graphic is a clue to one of the short Sherlock Holmes mysteries. Can anyone tell what the title is.

Bill H

Bill-

Not the real title, but it does have the word 'pips' in it.

You know, you're really very imaginative and creative. That was a great idea. We might try that with other books or titles.

You got it Jean! It's "The Five Orange Pips," one of my favorite Holmes stories (but then they're all favorites). Jean's right too, Bill, your use of graphics is creative and fun.

Marvelle

You folks are so good. It didn't take you long to fnd the title of the story. GREAT!
Jean, thank you for the compliment.

Bill H

Hi, folks, are you keeping an eye on Classical Mysteries while over in Curious Minds?

Bill H

Now for a picture of a polka-dotted hair ribbon.

Just finished "Rebecca". Such a great story; DuMaurier at her finest. ...Babi

Babi, I just finished The House on the Strand. by du Maurier. It was good but it can't compare to Rebcca, however, not too many stories can.

Bill H

I just got back from CA and have been catching up on your mystery posts.

Scrawler, In #260, I hope you meant "scare" and not "scar" your little sister. Otherwise, I will have to report you for sibling abuse (haha).

Horselover, glad your back.

Bill H

BILL, have you read DuMaurier's Jamaica Inn? That one is also quite good.

I posted two quotes from Allingham's "The Case of the White Elephant" in the 'Mystery' folder. I had meant to post them here, and if I had figured out how to make a clickable link I'd insert one. Anyhooo, if you would like a couple of amusting quotes from a Mr. Campion story, check out the Mystery folder. ..Babi

Babi, yes I read Jamaica Inn and what a coincidence you mentioned du Maurier. I was just about to post this:
I just started reading "Don't Look Now," by du Maurier this is one of the sories in the 13 Short Mystery Novels hardback I discovered a while back in my bookcase. I forgot all about that book and I had it for many years.

Bill H

NOTICE:

To All Sherlock Holmes Fans--Sunday at 9PM, PBS will present a Masterpiece Theater production of "Hound of the Baskervilles."

ENJOY!!!

Horselover,

I hope the 'Hound' is better than the Mr. Chips they did last week. I was about ready to kick in the TV. All I could think of was the luminous Greer Garson as Kathy, and the wonderful Robert Donat as Chips.

One thing about the M.T. production that really caused me to grind my teeth: Whoever did the musical background for it must have been stuck in the forties or fifties. Whenever there was a particularly emotional scene, they'd start off with musical phrases from some of the old Tchaikovsky music that was always used 'back then', and then alter it as they went on. Leaving me still humming, "This is the story of a starry night...." Anyone remember waaay back when the music writers went on strike (ASCAP?), and they couldn't use any of the current stuff? They went to the classics and set them to words. And Tchaikovsky was a favorite. And in the dancing scenes, they were using Gilbert and Sullivan. Never thought of them for 'dancing'.

Apologize for putting the above here, but I thought of it at the mention of Masterpiece Theatre.

We had "The Hound of the Baskervilles" on PBS months ago. I had mixed reactions to it.

I saw "Goodbye, Mr. Chips" last Sunday, too. My first reaction to the lead was much like yours, Jeanlock. He didn't look anything like Mr. Chips! After I got used to him, tho', I thought he did the role well. I thought Kathy was very well done, too. (I wish I could remember names better; I would like to see more of the actress who played the part. Forgetting names I swore to myself I wouldn't forget has become an enduring senior 'moment' in my life.)--Babi

Jean, I did not see the version of "Goodbye Mr. Chips" that caused you to grind your teeth. But I did see a movie version of "...Mr. Chips" with Peter O'Toole that I enjoyed very much. I thought he was perfect for the part.

Here's a first line for those of you who like to guess: "At the Detective's Club it is still told how Dr. Fell went down into the valley in Somerset that evening and of the man with whom he talked in the twilight by the lake, and of murder that came up as though from the lake itself."

The author is John Dickson Carr.

Horselover, thanks for the tip on the Sherlock Holmes program. I do believe I saw it but I'm going to watch it again anyway. Good clue to the JDC mystery. I wonder if we can solve it.

Jean, about background music. I don't whether it's my hearing, but more often than not when they play background music I can't hear what the actors are saying. No use turning the TV up because the music just gets louder.Bill H

Bill--

I suppose it is your hearing; what a shame. And you're right. All turning it up does is increase the sound level of the music. Of course, you can do what I do when the actors are speaking in very broad dialects, turn on the captions. You can have it either with the regular sound, or just the captions without the sound.

Jean, thank you for that tip! I'm going to try that.
Now for some football. You see it's NFL Sundsy!!

Bill H

Using the tips Hallie Mae and Ginny gave us in The Books Community Center can you give us the title of this story using this clue
Laura, quick on cue
I just tried it and it worked perfectly.

Bill H

Hallie Mae and Ginny gave us these two fine tips for searching for a book title. This should help us in finding mystery titles .
Hallie Mae tells us "My son sent me this today. It is the first paragraph of a letter amazon.com sent to its customers: "Starting today, you can find books at Amazon.com based on ,every word inside them, not just on matches to author or title keywords. Search Inside the Book -- the name of this new feature -- searches the complete inside text of more than 120,000 books -- all 33 million pages of them. And since we've integrated Search Inside the Book, into our standard search, using it is as easy as entering a search term in our regular search box." Isn't that amazing??? Hallie Mae"
Ginny, gives us another tip
"Wow, it sure IS, Hallie Mae, wow, google already has that, did you all know that? You can type in any line from any book and google will tell you which book or speech or saying or play or who said that and when, and I guess Amazon thought well heck we may as well sell the book when people come to it, too, they're amazing.
How many times have I stood in a bookstore and said, well it's ABOUT and they SAID but could not remember the title (A LOT) and now ...wow!">

We can use

Bill H

It's interesting though that publishers and authors aren't as enthusiastic about the new search, according to a NY Times article by David K. Kirkpatrick "Amazon Offer Worries Authors". There's concern by publishers that the search will direct potential book buyers to non-book products and Paul Aiken, executive director of the Authors' Guild stated that "the publishers did not have to right to make the contents of the book available without the authors' permission."

See the full article for more comments.

Marvelle

I had better luck with finding the answer to your clue, Bill, by using Google. But then maybe I'll just need to get used to using Amazon's new search on the web.

By the way, "Laura, quick on cue" comes from Du Maurier's "Don't Look Now" which I have never read---I'll check the library for a copy. Was it as good as her other books? (Though I doubt anything could surpass "Rebecca", I think.)

Looks like the guy in the graphic is getting ready for Halloween.
Marvelle, that is interesting what you said about authors being concerned that buyers may be directed to another product or book. I suppose they worry the reader may find something better )
Phyll, "Don't Look Now," by du Maurier, is just a short story. of about 44 pages. It is in the "13 Short Mystery Novels" book I have. I started to read it then got sidetracked. But I had just the opposite luck. When I used Google I came up empty, however, when I went to Amazon I found it right off. I'm going to try google again and see what happen Oh, by the way, congratulations on finding the title. of the story.

Bill H

Actually, Bill, it's the publishers who worry that potential customers will be diverted to non-book items. Authors feel that excerpts are being made available to the public without their (the authors') permission.

Marvelle

Bill, Here's a piece of coincidental information for all Sherlock Holmes fans--when I began reading "Sixpence House," the November selection, I discovered that the town where the book takes place is the actual home of the mansion of the Baskervilles! Small world isn't it?

I would say both authors and publishers have a point. Won't they both lose income, if people can get the entire book on the net for free? Not that I would be interested in reading 500 pages on screen, so maybe they wouldn't lose all that much.

I noticed that 'Baskerville' bit in Sixpence House, too, Horselover. I'm finding a lot of entertaining bits and am looking forward to the discussion. ..Babi

Horselover, that tip on the Baskerville home makes me want to read the story "Sixpence House." I wonder how much detail of the house the author gives.

Bill H

Phyll,
You asked about the novella "Don't Look Now." by du Maurier. Well, by all means put this short story on your must read list! I read it last night and it was great from start to finish. A gripping, fast moving, and suspenseful tale. Daphne du Maurier. What more needs to be said. This would make a fine short story to discuss. The story was in a book I have had for many years the title of which is 13 Short Mystery Novels, edit by Bill Pronzini and Martin H. Greenberg. The book has 13 top-quality mystery stories (A Bakers Dozen) by some of the best authors in the field both past and present. The book is still available in the used books of Barnes and Noble

Bill H

For the past week or so quite a few of my neighbors have been covering their out side walls with spider webs and hanging plastic ghosts from their trees for Halloween.
Today I read in my newspaper that in long ago times spider webs were a symbol of age and decay and that ghost were symbolic of death. However, I don't believe my neighbors have this thought in mind. Further reading informed me that some European nations have November 1st --All Souls Day-- as a national holiday and do nothing on October 31st. The newspaper article didn't name any of the countries.

Bill H

I checked my library and they have the Du Maurier novella in a collection named "After Midnight" and it is on the shelf. I'll try to pick it up tomorrow.

As for celebrating Halloween, it wasn't the big holiday when I was young that it is now. In fact, I don't remember the custom of going from house to house for candy. I seem to remember that Halloween was more a night for getting into mischief--hopefully harmless. I can remember cleaning eggs off of my folks' front porch one year and if I retaliated the following Halloween, then my memory conveniently doesn't go that far. (I suspect that I did, however.) I do remember that our little eastern Kansas town had a big parade on Halloween with bands and costumed marchers. It was a lot of fun but when WWII came along it was stopped and never started up again.

Bill--

One country that celebrates the Day of the Dead is Mexico. I believe that it is Malcolm Lowry's "Under the Volcano" that describes it so well. I'll check later, and if that isn't the book, I'll find the right one. Whichever it was, Alan Bates (again, I think) played the lead in the movie.

Countries that celebrate Nov. 1 tend to be the mostly Catholic countries and on that day they visit the graves of their forebears and clean up the sites and remember their dead. It's a day of reverance instead of play.

Phyll, In my young days the night before Halloween was called either Mischief Night or Devil's Night. That was the night kids would do those nasty things. However, in my neighborhood, I don't see that anymore.
Jean, yes, the newspaper article I read said the same thing you just posted about all Soul"s Day. The article explained that the families start off by going to church in the morlning and then on to the grave sites where they clean the grave markers and tidy up the grzves. It said the children must go with the families, however the kids are not too pleased with this.

Bill H

Make sure you close your drapes tonight. You don't want to see him looking in at you.
Happy Halloween
If you are going to parties tonight, have a great time. If you are not going to the parties, then you might try a little door to door trick or treating.

Bill H

Bill, So far, the author of "Sixpence House" just mentions the location of the Baskerville mansion as he drives past it. There may be more about it later on, but I haven't read that much yet.

I think spiders and ghosts are simply forms of creepiness, not necessarily reminders of death.

I also remember Halloween as a time of tricking more than of treating. But I think there is less of that today because the mischief gradually got too destructive, and the police got more serious about catching the culprits. Now, parents are even afraid to let their children out at all on Halloween for fear of predators. Most neighborhoods here have parties where the attendees and the mayhem can be controlled.

Bill,

That graphic was REALLY clever. However do you find time to do those things. I'm neither tricking nor treating tonight. Too tired. Been out all day. And I won't be answering the door, either. Just gave up all that a couple of years ago. Figure getting old should have some perks--like not handing out candy.

Well, just got home about an hour ago. Been gone most of the day. The little Tots accompanied by their parents are going door to door trick or treating As I pulled in the drive way, I saw several of them making the rounds. They looked so cute in their costumes and some of the costumes were a little to big for them. I'm sure they were hand me downs from their older brothers and sisters.
Marvelle, what a coincidence. We were talking about the house in Sixpence House and today at the local Barnes & Noble I saw an audio pack that contained six discs . They are: The Hound of the Baskervilles, The Strange Case of Dr Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, The Cask of Amontillado, Time Machine, The Gold Bug and The Fall of the House of Usher. Well, when I saw that line up I bought it. I'll be listening to The Hound….to night.
Jean, Thank you for the compliment about the graphic. But it t doesn't take me too long to do those graphics. I was able to post the both of them, along with the text, about in a half hour or less. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy.

Bill H

Oh, I forgot to say I got my Flu Shot today at 6: PM.
Please, seniors, don't forget to get your Flu Shot.

Bill H

What a deal, Bill, about the audio. How perfect for Halloween and in audio. There are so many stories that are better in sound without pictures so we -- the listeners -- can use our imagination.

Here in New Mexico we also observe Day of the Dead. Lowry's "Under the Volcano", set in Mexico, is a pure masterpiece. Now that would be a fantastic discussion in Great Books or elsewhere (although not a mystery). I have the book and video and love them both. Albert Finney plays the lead in the movie and you really believe it's happening to him, Finney is that good, and that it's mere coincidence the camera is there to catch the moments of his life.

Marvelle

Marvelle, perhaps you could suggest that book in Great Books.
Thanks for the information.
Yes I love listening to the audio stories.

Bill H

Hi all! Spent last evening watching "Frankenstein" movies from the 1930s. They sure don't make movies like that anymore. I took a course last year in film noir and these movies portray it at its best. Although I liked the modern "Mary Shelly" and "Dracula" you can't beat the 1930 movies for suspense and drama. I also saw the British "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" which was very good. But as much as I liked these movies, you can't beat reading the books and using your own imagination.

Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

Here's a bit of movie trivia. When the American Spencer Tracy was tagged to star in "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde," he wanted to play Mr. Hyde and have Kathryn Hepburn as Dr. Jekyll. His suggestion wasn't approved.

Marvelle

marvelle==

Ah, it WAS Under the Volcano. That book and movie did make a deep impression on me although I had the wrong Albert as the star.

This was not only a beautiful fall day in the Pittsburgh area, it was a gorgeous fall day in the Pittsburgh area. I even cut the grass today, arthritis and all. I love the aroma this time of the year. I wish it could be fall all the time. I know I'll get an argument on that.
I started reading a new story in my Great Tales and Poems of Edger Allan Poe. This story is supposed to be a sequel to Murder in the Rue Morgue. Here is the title and subheading.
THE MYSTERY OF MARIE ROGET
A Sequel To
"The Murders In The Rue Morgue."
It is only 56 pages in my book and it starts out rather suspenseful. I'll let you know how I like it.

Bill H

Did the story of "Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde" by Robert Louis Stevenson take place in the Victorian era of England? It finally dawned on me why Stevenson named the villain of the story Mr. Hyde. It probably was because of the hidden personality that lurks in the human race. Most imaginative of the author.

Bill H

Stephen King's fifth and most recent novel of the Dark Tower series is now in the bookstores. I feel this series is about the most incredible and imaginative of King's books. For a flight of the imagination these novels are supremely enjoyable. Of course, they must be read with a grain of salt and just for the reading pleasure.

I started with the very first one in the series, namely: The Dark Tower 1: "The Gunslinger." I suppose each book could stand alone but I strongly suggest the reader start with the first in order to fully appreciate the ongoing adventure. I haven't read the latest, but I have a feeling this may be the last of them. Just a hunch on my part. To see the titles of all the Dark Tower novels please use this link.

The Dark Tower

Bill H

Bill, you interest me, but I am wary when it comes to Stephen King. I read two of his novels, and swore 'never again'. One becomes caught up in them and they are truly frightening. Is the Dark Tower series like his other books in this respect? ...Babi

I share my love of Corgi with Stephen King , but never ever try to read any more of his novels. I find everyone evil or frightening and dont like horror stories at all.

I don't think most horror stories are truly mysteries, and I don't think Stephen King qualifies as "classic." However, I do think he is an interesting person. I saw a few interviews with him after the accident when he was run down while running near his home. He was badly injured, but seems to have recovered now.

Bill, I like your theory about Mr. Hyde. This story is a genuine classic and goes to the heart of human nature. All of us need to beware of our dark side, and try to keep it hidden (unlike Mr. Hyde).

BaBi, I'm not so sure the Dark Tower series is truly freighting, at least not as much as The Shining or Rose Madder. Rose Madder was one of the King books I liked very much. It's about an abused wife that flees her husband and he pursues her. Oh my what all happens. The Dark Tower Series is more of a trip in to fantasy.
Stephanie, how did you fell about King's "The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon?" It is about a little girl who got lost in the forest of Maine. I did a discussion of that book about a year and a half ago. and it was received very well from all who participated in the discussion.
Horselover, No, I agree with you King's novels are not mystery stories I also posted the message in Action/Adventure/Horror and Suspense. I posted here to make sure the readers knew it was available. I usually wait until the book becomes available in paper back. I don't like paying high prices for a hardcover for a tory I read one time.

Bill H

Well, since I do enjoy fantasy, I'll give King's Dark Tower series a trial run. (After I finish my current stack of books.) ..Babi

Bill H:

"Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" was published in 1886. The story takes place in Victorian London. "Robert Louis Stevenson was tubercular during most of his adult life. "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" was written in bed in 1885 in between hemorrhages from the lungs. Hard up for money, feverish, he began the story of Jekyll and Hyde after coming out of a bad dream. Stevenson was a pale, sickly rebel who had defied his father. He chased after a married woman and wouldn't become an engineer. He was nothing more substantial than a "scribbler of words". Hyde is Stevenson's portrait of the artist as a bad little boy. He's that unredeemed child in Jekyll (and Stevenson himself), who stays asleep until Jekyll pushes him out. But Hyde "escapes" from Jekyll, walks about London doing harm. He's that saddest of monsters, the artist who can find no shape to please him. He is energy coiled in upon itself, energy turned to hate." - Jerome Charyn (Afterword).

The premise of this story is fascinating - if we could control our evil side we could stop crime. "Robert Louis Stevenson originally wrote "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" as a "shilling shocker." He then burned the draft and, upon his wife's advice, rewrote it as the darkly complex tale it is today. Stark, skillfully woven, this fascinating novel explores the curious turnings of human character through the strange case of Dr. Jekyll, a kindly scientist who by night takes on the stunted evil self, Mr. Hyde. Anticipating modern psychology, Jekyll and Hyde is a prilliantly original study of man's dual nature - as well as an immortal tale of suspense and terror." - Jacket cover of "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde"

Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

I don't usually read his stuff, but I did read and enjoy Rose Madder, and thought Dolores Claiborn was very good, too. But generally speaking I don't like horror stories or thrillers and don't really consider them 'mysteries' in the true sense of the mystery story. Of course there are several categories of mystery books: who-dun-it, police procedural, etc.

The only thing I loved and read after I had seen the movie was Shawshank Redemption. I loved the book and the movie. One of those few rare movies that did jusice to the book.

BaBi, if you do start the Dark Tower series, please begin with the "Gunslinger" I believe this is the first in the series, otherwise, the continuity won't be as much appreciated.
Scrawler, thank you for the information. Was it his father that thought of him as "a mere scribbler of words?" I don't know how critics could arrive at this decesion based on all the classics Stevenson wrote.
Stephanie, if you loved Shawshank, you will find King's "The Green Mile" far outpaces Shawshank.
Jean, you would like "The Green Mile" also. It is not fantasy but a drama about an innocent man on death row. It is a classic. A movie was made of this novel also.

Bill H

Yes, it was his father that thought of Stevenson as a "mere scribbler of words". Of course at that time, even Stevenson was unaware of his vast talent and in those days you did what your father said and became what he wanted you to be. I was glad that despite being very poor and ill he was able to do what he wanted to do and write. It shows what the human spirt can do in spite of everything life throws at them.

Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

Dern, I did it again! I posted something in the Mystery forum that I meant to post in Classical Mysteries. It was about a writer and a sleuth that I found in those old volumes of mysteries I told you all about. Edgar Wallace and Mr. J. G. Reeder, to be precise.

Oh well, if you read the posts here you probably read them there as well. I included a descriptive quote, and it's all too much to repeat. Do check it out, tho'. I thoroughly enjoyed Mr. J. G. Reeder. ...Babi

Annie, thank you for answering my question.
BaBi, I very seldom visit Mystery Corner. But I will look in to see what you posted.
A little more on Stephen King's "The Green Mile." This novel could, in the broad sense, be considered a mystery. The innocent man sits on death row waiting execution by the electric chair while one of the head guards of the prison tries to find the real killer of the little girl. Some critics consider this story to be King's finest work. If I'm not mistaken this story was a discussion on SeniorNet a while back.

Bill H

BaBi, Here's a link to more Edgar Wallace novels. When you get to the web site scroll down a bit to see all his listed works.
Edgar Wallace

Bill H

Hahahaha gee, Bill we had the same idea but at least our links are different.

BaBi, I've never read Edgar Wallace but will see if any books are available at the library. I enjoy hearing of authors new to me and you're so enthusiastic that I checked the web for information. Here are two links I found on the author:

Edgar Wallace Official Site

Biography: Edgar Wallace

His books are still in print!

Marvelle

Marvelle, great minds run in the same channel

Bill H

Bill--

I have The Green Mile movie on VHS. I thought it one of the best movies I've seen. As usual, Tom Hanks was absolutely perfect. But doubt I'll get around to reading the book.

Found another J. D. Carr at the library book sale Friday, but not Burning Court. And my trip to the BIG used book store has been postponed until after my cataract surgeries, and probably until after Christmas. The cataracts have taken over November, and then there's Christmas.

Jean, best of luck to you with the cataracts surgery. I'm sure all our prayers will be with you.
Also, if you liked the movie of "The Green Mile," you will love the book because it is so much better and the ending in the book has much more depth. However, I did see the movie and I agree it was more faithful to the novel than most King movies.
Good luck.

Bill H

BILL & MARVELLE! Thank you, thank you for the links. You just saved me no end of time hunting down info. on Edgar Wallace. I have just checked them out and jotted down numerous notes. Did you know that over a hundred of his books and stories were made into film? And Mr. J. G. Reeder seems to have been one of his best characters. One of the sites carried three quotes from his writings, and all three concerned Mr. Reeder. Bonanza! ...Babi

Babi, you are very welcome. We here on Classical Mysteries aim to please our readers. No, I didn't know that many movies were made from the Edgar Wallace novels. Now I'm going to have to satisfy my curiosity by finding the names of them.

Bill H

I found a great collection at a library book sale--"Sleuths of the Century." It contains stories by lots of the authors we have been discussing here:
Raymond Chandler
Agatha Christie
Ellery Queen
Rex Stout
Tony Hillerman
G.K. Chesterton
Dorothy L. Sayers
Georges Simenon
Erle Stanley Gardner
Ross Macdonald
Bill Pronzini
John Dickson Carr
And many other masters of the mystery craft.

I did not realize there was something called the "Golden Age of Detection." From this book, I found out that Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers are "the most revered, studied, and reprinted writers of Britain's Golden Age of Detection."

I don't know, Horselover. Maybe whoever coined the phrase feels that British detective writing after Christie and Sayers went downhill. Tho' I could hardly agree with that; there are some really good later mysteries. Or maybe it was just one of those things of the Madison Avenue genre...ie., hype. In any case, you found yourself a gem. ..Babi

Horselover, your collection of "Sleuths of the Century" sound like my "13 Great Mystery Novels" by many of the same authors you listed. Bill Pronzini and Martin H Greenburg were the guys that compiled the stories in my book.

Bill H

Bill, This collection was edited by Jon L. Breen and Ed Gorman. It consists of short stories by these authors.

Horselover, it must've been very popular and profitable for these short detective novels to be edited and collected for publication in the various books you and I have talked about. I suppose the original authors or their estates collected royalties on the sales of these books.

Bill H

Horselover--

It's the darndest thing! Some of your messages, including #340 show up on my screen as a series of symbols. I finally figured out that they are the character set 'Festive', so if I import them into Notepad, they show up as text. But I can't figure out why it's only your messages that show up that way.

Last night I finished reading "The Gold Bug" by Edgar Allan Poe. This story deals with three men William Legrande, his best friend and Jupiter--Legrand's man Friday. The story ends with Legrande telling the two men that Captain Kidd killed the two men who had helped dig for a treasure chest. I couldn't help but wonder if Legrande had the same ending planned for these two men. I sort of think he did. This story can be read on line by clicking on the Poe link in the heading.

Bill H

Bill, I had to stop and read "The Gold Bug". I can only hope that the speaker's reference to the presumed murder as an "atrocity" means that he would not be guilty of such himself. I hope. ..:>) ..BAbi

But, BaBi, it does make you wonder. Greed can turn any one's mind. Did you enjoy the story?

Bill H

I found the explanation of the clues/codes a bit stultifying; other than that I enjoyed it. And the ending does leave one with that tension one feels just before the fool in the horror film opens that door! ...Babi

"…just before the fool in the horror film opens that door! ...Babi "
That was the impression I got, too. I believe Poe intended us to think that.

Bill H

Several weeks ago it was suggested we do a Sherlock Holmes short story, as we did with the Poe story of Ru Morgue. I believe the reader suggested the Boscombe Valley Mystery by A Conan Doyle. This is the fourth story in The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and can be read on line by clicking on the "Complete Sherlock Holmes" link found in the heading. In my Sherlock book the tale is only 18 pages and would probably make for a short discussion of 7 or 8 days.

If enough readers express interest here I will try and find the best possible time for scheduling the discussion.

Bill H

Jean, I'm sorry you are having such a problem with that type face. Would you like me to try another one?

Bill, I also feel that Poe intended to leave us with that stulifying feeling. I'd like to discuss a Holmes or any of the classic masters.

Also, I'm gathering up classic holiday mysteries and my grand ambition -- already destined for failure due to over-reaching -- is to read one book a day during December. Some titles that I'll absolutely read are: Murder Can Be Fun by Fredric Brown; The Christmas Card Murders by Daniel William Meredith; The White Priory Murders by Carter Dickson (aka John Dickson Carr); The Finishing Stroke by Ellery Queen; and An English Murder by Cyril Hare.

Any suggestions for holiday mysteries to add to my list of to-be-reads?

Marvelle

My Sherlock Holmes "Treasury" doesn't have the "Bascombe Valley Mystery", BILL, but I would be interested to read in from your link. I'm agreeable, if you can find enough other participants.

Sorry, Marvelle. Offhand, I can't recall any holiday specific mysteries, tho' I'm sure I must have read at least one. I have a vague recollection of evergreen branch decorations, etc. ...Babi

MARVELLE, of course! A quick look at 'holiday mysteries' revealed Agatha Christie and "Murder for Christmas" and Simon Brett's "Christmas Crime at Puzzle Manor". (You didn't really need two more for your stack, did you?) <g> ...BAbi

Marvelle, The titles of the stories you are planning to read in December all sound quite good. I remember reading the White Priory Murders by Carter Dickson but it has been so many years ago.
I had a collection of Ellery Queen mysteries but I made a donation of many of the books I had to a nursing home a relative of mine was in and I believe that was one of the books.
Do any of you recall the private eye Michael Shayne novels by Brett Halliday. I read a note about them last night in The Smithsonian Collection booklet I have. The article went on to say that his private eye caught on with the readers so well that it made a fortune for Halliday and spawned a small publishing empire.
BaBi, you and Marvelle make two for Boscombe Valley Mysteries. I am sorry about you reading it on line. Will that be inconvenient for you? We could start things off with two and maybe pick up another when it goes into "Proposed Reading." I believe we had three or four in Ru Morgue. I'll try and find the best scheduling for the discussion.

Bill H

Count me in on the discussion. Haven't read a Sherlock Homes story in awhile, but it sounds like a great idea.

Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

Annie, (Scrawler) Good for you. that makes four counting me. I'll see how soon I can get it scheduled.Bill H

Yes, Bill H, I remember those books. I only read a couple that were in our small town library back then, and of course there was no such thing as interlibrary loan or even using another town's library. Haven't thought of them in years, but I did enjoy those books.

N

horselover--

Well, the cute little wreaths and stockings are great for Christmas; maybe after Christmas you can find something as pertinent.

The only way I can read those messages is to copy them into Notepad which is set up to use another font.

Do you set those up like that on purpose, or is it some sort of anomaly in your system?

Jean, I don't know why that happens on your system. No one else has mentioned this problem. How does this type face work on your computer?

A Program Note for all you mystery lovers: Tonight PBS will present a drama from Tony Hillerman's "Coyote Waits." Enjoy!

Nhome, here's an other interesting note about the author of the Michael Shayne stories. The author's real name was Davis Dresser. He created the Halliday alias to twit an editor who told Dresser to change a character's name from Halliday because the editor didn't think it was tough enough. I'm going see if my electronic library has any of his novels.
Horselover, thank you for the "Coyote Waits." tip. I'm going to tape it.
I always tape mysteries I think I will like. that way I can go rewind back to the parts I don't quite understand )

Bill H

Horselover,

I have no idea. In your new message, the green typeface, the middle line only displays the bottom half of the letters. Perhaps others don't happen to have the Festival typeface on their computers so the PC just picks another font. It only happens with some of your messages, and I haven't a clue. As I said, I can just copy/paste into Notepad and it uses the typeface set up in Notepad.

It's what they call an 'anomaly'. Meaning no one has any idea why it happens. But it does.

BaBi, thanks for the additional titles of holiday mysteries.

Jean, I can read Horselover's posts. I have a similar difficulty in reading a friend's emails and as you said, it's an anomaly -- like life.

Marvelle

It was suggested that the Sherlock Holmes' Boscombe Valley Mystery be started in January and I agree. There are five book discussions scheduled for December and I have my two week stint in Curious Minds also coming up in December. So I'll place the Boscombe Valley Mystery in Proposed Discussions and schedule it for very early January. Perhaps we can pick up a few more readers.

I apologize if any of you find this inconvenient. Bill H

What a find. I discovered an inexpensive book store in a shopping center close by. These books are not used. The buyer gets them from overstocks and out of print books. The shelves are just filled with books of different genre. The same with music Cds that range anywhere from one dollar to 2 for five dollars. I will admit the music and artist are from the senior era but so much the better for me and they sound just great. It was like finding a treasurer chest. They have audio books of so many of the favorite old novels but these are on tape cassettes. I'll have to hunt up my old radio/cassette player.

Bill H

Bargain prices of books on cassettes and music from our era. That is a find, Bill.

Marvelle

I just finished reading Ellery Queen's "Lamp of God" from my volume of old mysteries. I was surprised that the 'mysteries' were much more obvious to me than I remembered his stories being. I easily figured out how the house must have 'vanished', exactly who the churlish young man was, and where the missing inheritance was hidden. I guess if you read enough mysteries some of the old stuff looks simple. ...Babi

Rereading Ellery Queen makes you wonder how you could be mystified by him. I did like him so very much though.

BaBi and Stephanie, with your vast experience of reading mysteries you two could go into business and hang out your own private eye shingle )

Bill H

LOL, BILL. Just what a private eye needs,..poor vision and poor hearing! But then, who would suspect a couple of nice old ladies like us? <bg> ....Babi

Bill H--

After my surgery Monday, my daughter and I are heading for a big used book store for which I still have $18 credit. I'll be looking particularly for the John Dickson Carr "Burning Court". We thought it would make a nice pre-holiday-rush outing.

The left eye seems to be fine. Don't really notice much difference, but perhaps when both have been done---

Jean, If I read your message correctly, I understand you had a successful cataract surgery and thank heavens for that. I'm sure you are relieved that one eye had been taken care of. May God be with you on Monday.

Bill H

The Burning Court is a wonderful book. I envy you reading it for the first time. He was such a fine author.

Stephanie--

Burning Court scared me out of my wits (and I don't scare easily) the first time I read it. And that was when I had a family around me to anchor me in reality. Being alone now, I don't think I'd have the courage to read it again. Maybe next summer, on a looooong day.

Bill,

Thanks. Yes, the first one went well; so I don't expect any problems tomorrow. No one told me that what I would experience while he worked on that eye was a dazzling light show of brilliant aqua and rose colors with white. Was so intrigued that I didn't even think about what he was doing. That, and telling him I'd bring my own CD next time. It only took about 6 minutes. They schedule those ops 15 minutes apart, so if he begins at 8 and ends at noon, you can get an idea of the volume of his 'business'. And they sell the eyeglasses there, too.

Wow I am impressed. Had my eyes done in 1999.. Took almost two hours for the first and about 45 minutes for the second.. No lights, just tugging and people talking and laughing.. Never ever would go back there.

Yes, Oh yes..I've read them all..."Rebecca" ...."Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again..." the famous first line...! Rebecca, Jamaica Inn, Frenchman's Creek and one or two others were made into movies while I was still in England. Just now I've been having fun watching Miss Marple on Public TV on Sunday nights...great. Does anyone think that P.D.James's mystery books belong in this category...?I do... Colkot

I watched that last weekend and was so fascinated with the pace I did not want to move.. there's another one on tonight.. By the way, searching back into the dim past of the 40's I had the opportunity of reading some of the Sherlock Holmes in serial form in the Strand Magazines in London. The father of a neighbour had collected them and they had survived the Blitz. Colkot

Stephanie--

That's what I was expecting, and I was plainly terrified. But they told me he usually does it in about 6 minutes, and that's what it was. Isn't it amazing how technology has progressed in just a few short years!!!!

Can't wait to read Burning Court, it sounds like a good cold winter night read.
Jean, I am so happy all went well with you. I know that in the not to distant future I will have to have the same thing. Your post sounded so encouraging.
Colkot, I've read those stories by du Maurier, too. I just finished a short story by her called "Don't Look Now." Very good. Do you have still have the copies of the Strand Magazine.
Stephanie, tell me where you had your eyes done and I'll be sure not to go there.

Bill H

I was reading a synopsis of The Crooked Hinge by John Dickson Carr (1938). Allow me to quote here what I read.
In this tale of mistaken identities and survivors of of the Titanic, Old Gideon Fell (I forgot about him) offers "a perfectly logical and reasonable explanation of the impossible"- a crime that would baffle a Mensa member, as Carr's books do.
I think I'm going to have to look for that one.

Bill H

Had my eyes done in Orlando at the largest eye clinic in Florida. Just goes to show you cant always get the best from the biggest. Old books.. I recently reread a Nick and Nora story. Still fun, but more obvious now than when I first read it. Also rearead the first Fletch.. Whew.. talk about changing his style when he got older.

Stephanie, I always liked the Thin Man stories. Nick and Nora were the sophisticated private eyes more so than the rough and ready ones that were portrayed by the different authors. Yes, I include Nora as a private eye because she gave Nick so many good tips that went a long way in solving the case. They were so different from Sam Spade, Micahel Shayne and the sarcastic Nero Wolf. Don't get me wrong I liked reading the stories these guys were in, but don't you think Nero Wolf got a little bit scathing at times.

Bill H

But, Stephanie--

Didn't you say 1999? I would imagine things have changed considerably since then.

I had a conversation with the Dr. yesterday about putting the paper work in an electronic system. Had already given him the article about the government leaning that way-----reqiring such a system if the Dr. wants to collect from Medicare. I asked him if he got the real point of the article---and right away he said, "You mean Medicare?"

All expenses of the cataract surgery are covered fully by Medicare. Believe me, he'll switch. If I were younger I'd volunteer to help.

Incidentally, Bill: I can see! Do you know the Giancarlo Menotti Christmas opera "Amahl and the Night Visitors"? When the little crippled boy takes his gift----his cane--to the Christ Child, he suddenly discovers he can walk and launches into an aria, "Look mother, I can walk, I can dance ...." Well, look folks, I can see, I can drive .....

Nero Wolfe was undoubtedly scathing at times, Bill, but to me that was completely in character. A misogynist, of superior mind (and well aware of it), physically lazy to the edge of inertia and huge enough to border on the grotesque. I suspect he disliked or disdained everyone but the few people he had working for him and that may have been partly because he couldn't function w/o them. Scathing? You bet! ...Babi

Folks, the Sherlock Holmes short story "The Boscombe Valley Mystery" is now a Proposed discussion. Would the folks who expressed a desire for discussing this story please post there? When I get enough interested readers I can move it along to Upcoming Discussions and place a reading schedule. Here is a link
" Here's a link
The Boscombe Valley Mystery

Bill H

HAPPY THANGSGIVING

Bill H

Nero.. Rex Stout created one of the most memorable people of all time with him. Its amazing how many people who dont read mysteries can still identify him. There are occasional characters who stand all alone and are always remembered.

Stephenie, Rex Stout did create a memorable character in Nero Wolfe but we must not forget Archie Goodwin. his man Friday. When I think of Nero Wolfe, Archie come to mind also. I believe the Archie Goodwin character made these stories just as memorable. However, since I now have Nero as my burner software this is what springs to mind when I hear the name Nero )

Bill H

Forget Archie Goodwin? Never! Crusty old Nero couldn't have gotten anything done without him. ...Babi

Colkot, Scrawler, and Marvelle, if you are still interested in discussing The Boscombe Valley Mystery (Sherlock Holmes) would you be kind enough to post in this in the Proposed Discussions? BaBi has already posted her intentions of joining. When I get three or more I will be able to move it to "Upcoming Discussion" and give it a reading schedule. Here's a link
The Boscombe Valley Mystery

Bill H

Archie was the glue that made Nero human. I always thought it would be fun to meet an Archie..

Odd how several of the private eyes had to have their "Watson." For example, Wimsey and Bunter, Nick and Nora, Poroit and Hastings…. Who else?
Were the "Watsons" the sounding boards for them and do you think the novels would've been as good without them or not?

Bill H

I vote 'NOT', Bill. These supporting characters provide foil, counterpoint, help in time of need, to varying degrees. From the large and humorous role of Archie Goodman to the lesser one of 'the admirable Hastings', the stories needed them. ..Babi

I agree with Babi. The assistant, foil, whatever, adds a dimension to the stories. Albert Campion had his helper, too. If they aren't a sounding board, then they assist.

I neveer liked Nero Wolfe - without Archie, Wolfe might have had only one dimension, large as he was.

n

Bunter,, I did love Bunter.. He kept Sir Peter on the straight and narrow of a type.

I have to agree with all of you that the "Watsons" did add another dimension to the novels. I believe the author's of these stories were able to get their point across much more succinctly by having a partner for the private eye to discuss the case with. Just think of how much more dialogue would've had to be written without them.
I must give my vote to Dr. Watson. He was the complete foil for Holmes. However, the Sherlock movies made Watson to be somewhat of a bumbler but this is not the case in Doyle's writings. It is true Watson was not portrayed as being as observant as Sherlock but this pointed up Holmes' power of deduction.

Bill H

In the Proposed Discussion of The Boscombe Valley Mystery we have two readers who have said they would like to discuss that story. And we have one other who has said she would also like to participate. So I am going to ask that it be moved to "Upcoming Atractions" and set the schedule.

Bill H

NL, I got a chuckle out of your comment re. Nero Wolfe, that w/o Archie he "might have had only one dimension, large as he was". Good line.

I agree with you, Bill. The movies did make Watson inept and bumbling. Quite unfair. I think that is one reason I was glad when Watson married and resumed a separate life of his own. He still participated in the Holmes mysteries, but his competence, independence and courage were more in evidence. He didn't deserve the 'faithful dog Tray' image. ...Babi

Do you think the perception of Watson as a 'bumbler' might not have been hastened by the protrayal of him by Nigel Bruce in the Basil Rathbone movies. People were not nearly so sophisticated nor well-educated in the 30's 40's, etc. as they are today. Hence, often portrayals had to be broad to get a point across.

Jean, yes, Nigel Bruce did come across in most of his movies as an absent minded person-- not sure that's the right description of him. It carried over into the Sherlock movies. But, you know, it gave a little bit of humor to those screen plays. Perhaps that is what the director wanted to convey to the audience.
Scrawler, thank you for posting in the Proposed Discussion. "Boscombe" is a go. I'll have it moved to Upcoming and give it a reading schedule Thanks to all of you who are participating in the discussion.

Bill

You know, until today I've been doing so much running around and shopping since before Thanksgiving I haven't had as much time as I usually have to come in here and visit with you. But this past Monday I really lucked in. I stopped at the large discount bookstore in a shopping center not far from where I live. These are not used books but they are print and audio books that have been in publication for several years and this bookstore buys them from overstock.
For instance when I stopped in this past Monday the audio shelves were abundantly stocked with all kind of audio mystery Cds, and cassettes from famous authors and, of course, other stories as well. There before me was a CD of Stephen King's and Peter Straub's "The Talisman" that originally sold for $49. 95 but now had a price label of $9.99. Well needless to say I gobbled this right up. Looking a little further I saw cassettes of King's "Dreamcatcher," Ellery Queen's "The Dragon 's Teeth," and Dorothy L Slayer's "The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club." a Lord Peter Wimsey story. All the same price. Well, these also slipped into my shopping cart.
The next day I figured, well after all, this is the Holiday season I might as well go back to that bookstore because I had seen one or two more audios that I liked and I do have a radio/cd player sitting on my bookshelf and a radio/cassette player as well. So off I go to the discount bookstore. When I walked in I made a bee line for the audio shelves. Wow! I couldn't believe it the famous author's shelves were practically empty. I asked the manager: What happened, did you have so many customers buy these? since yesterday. "No" was the answer. She told me that a lady comes in every so often and buys hundreds of audios and print books then resells them. I said, I bet she sells them for a lot more than what you do. Her answer was: "Yes."

Bill H

The Boscombe Valley and the reading schedule has been placed in Upcoming Attractions. If you wish to see the reading schedule please click here
The Boscombe Valley

Bill H

One of the short storis in my "13 Short Mystery Novels" is Introducing Susan Dare by Mignon Eberhart. I must confess I never read any of the Susan Dare stories or any by Mignon Eberhart. How many of the Susan's stories did Eberhart write? Perhaps some may make for a good book discussion.

Bill H

I usually love Stephen King's novels, but I really didn't like "Dreamcatcher". I not even sure why I didn't like it, but it just didn't feel right. Did anyone else get that feeling? Perhaps if someone did like it, they could tell me what they liked about it.

Scrawler

Scrawler, that's exactly how I feel about Black House by King and Straub and I usually like reading both these authors. I consider Black House to be too fractious. And just too many characters in the novel! I enjoyed The Talisman by these two guys. I don't know, I just can't get interested in Black House.

Bill H

I have been away from here for a while, trying to keep up with all the other book discussions going on at the same time. I enjoyed all your posts about the sidekicks, and I have to agree that these characters are necessary not only as a foil for the ideas of the detective, but also as a means of recapping the events and clues periodically to help the reader keep track. They are also a way for the reader to learn more about the life and skills of the detective than s(he) otherwise would.

I've never read "The Boscombe Valley" but hope to get around to it in time to join the discussion. Thanks, Bill, for keeping up this mystery corner. I really enjoy it even though I sometimes drop out for a time.

I chanced to see the movie "Dreamcatcher" on TV; didn't know it was a Stephen King before it started. I don't know how the movie compares with the book, but the movie overdid the 'horror' to the point where it ceased to be credible. The thing that always caught me in King's books...before I stopped reading them altogether... is that they frightened me precisely because I could imagine those things happening. ..Babi

Horselover, I do hope you join us in the Boscombe Valley Mystery. We all had a good time in Ru Morgue. You said: "I have been away from here for a while, trying to keep up with all the other book discussions going on at the same time." Why would you want to do that? This is the really big show right here )
BaBi, The only two Stephen King movies I liked were "The Green Mile" and "The Shawshank Redemption." The Green Mile was a great movie it followed the book as close as possible for a movie. If you didn't see that movie try and rent a video. I'm sure you will like it.
One further comment. I still think of Stephen King's "IT" as one of my favorites but when it was on TV it really stunk.

Bill H

FrancyLou, are you OK? We haven't heard from you for ever so long. What are your favorite Classical Mysteries?

Bill H

I did see "The Green Mile", BILL, and "The Shawshank Redemption". I agree, the 'Green Mile' was excellent. "The Shawshank Redemption" was also quite good, and had the somewhat rare attribute of an outcome that surprised me. I didn't know either was a Stephen King book. I have the rather sloppy habit of simply watching a movie or TV show for enjoyment, w/o paying any attention whatever to who wrote it, produced it, directed it...etc., etc. I am the despair of any movie buff. ...Babi

Babi, If you liked the movie of The Green Mile you will love the book. However, I must say that the electrocution scene in the movie sort of depressed me. I do believe that was one of the most horrible of all horror scenes I ever watched. Maybe it's because I don't approve of capital punishment. I did when I was a young man but I have changed my thinking on that a bit.

Bill H

Bill,

I remember reading every word of the coverage of the Lindbergh kidnapping trial and about the execution of Hauptman. I was only 10 at the time, but the thought of someone purposely determining to end a life horrified me and I have opposed capital punishment ever since. Seems as though we could come up with some workable solution but our vaunted ingenuity seems deficient on that score.

And before someone jumps in, I don't approve of murder, either. But at least it isn't state ordered with my tacit complicity.

Law and Order did a very moving episode once in which the entire team of detectives and prosecutors attended an execution and then had to deal with their reactions. It was very interesting.

Bill, You are absolutely right. Not only is this the big show, it is certainly the most entertaining!

But I must say that I do not like Stephen King's horror stories, and do not consider them classical mysteries.

As for capital punishment, the major drawback (aside from the moral issues) is the lack of certainty of guilt which often occurs in our adversarial criminal justice system. When so many wrongly convicted prisoners are on death row, one wonders how many have been wrongly executed. Until we can find a more accurate way to determine guilt, we should probably follow the European countries, and give up the death penalty.

BaBi, in regard to capital punishment, we do have a workable solution and that is life in prison without the possibility of parole. Just imagine spending a lifetime in prison and all that it entails. It's unmanageable for me to understand the feelings a person must endure spending the final days on death row just waiting for that final hour. I compare that to cruel and unusual punishment.
Horselover, no, King's novels are not classical mysteries. However, the Action/Adventure/Horror and Suspense discussion doesn't seem to generate much interest. I believe most readers consider those novels to be part of the Mystery Corner discussion and place their post accordingly. If the readers would post the horror, etc. messages in Action/Adventure…I could do more with that discussion. You see, I head that discussion also.
I feel King, Koontz, Straub, Clive Barker etc novels to be horror stories and authors like Wilbur Smith, Zane Grey fall into the action novels. We used to have quite a good time discussing all the action packed sea stories of Wilbur Smith. Somehow these stories got sidetracked from Action /Adventure, etc.

Bill H

King and Koontz I avoid, Wilbur Smith is great, and Clive Barker I didn't like at all. His characters were so shallow and unrealistic to me. Of course, this is based on one book since I never bothered to read another of his.

Umm, that was someone else discussing capitol punishment, Bill, tho' I agree with what has been said. The problem with life imprisonment w/o parole, of course, is that society is carrying an increasingly heavy financial burden to support the guilty for life.

The old idea of a prison island has its appeal to me. Put those guilty of murder and violent crimes on an island by themselves with adequate resources to survive. Whether they make a life or kill each other off would depend on them. Seems fair enough to me. ..Babi

I know this is off the 'mystery' subject, BUT--

With reference to life imprisonment for convicted killers, would it be at all possible to make that life imprisonment in someway make restitution to the victim's family? In other words, not just be locked up for life, but given a specific raison d'etre?

Any ideas how, Jeanlock? I think restitution is always right, but offhand I can't see how a prison inmate could make any sort of substantial restitution. And, of course, the family of the victim might be greatly offended by the idea that anything the guilty party could offer would at all compensate for their loss. It's an idea with many facets to consider. ...Babi

BaBi

Well, prisoners usually work and are paid ridiculously low wages which is a great benefit to the industry they are working for; perhaps the industry could pay a more reasonable wage of which most would go into a fund for the victim's family--for college, etc. And if the victim's family refused it, then it could go to a designated charity. And there are probably other things a prisoner could do for a charitable organization from behind bars. To tell you the truth, I've been wracking my brain for years to find some other form of punishment than death. I don't make a big thing of my religion, perferring to be private about it, but it does seem to me that something along the lines I've suggested would be a lot more acceptable to the Almighty than commiting state-sanctioned murder. But then, I'm just peculiar. And getting more so every day.

I do like suspense novels, even though I don't like most horror stories. However, I did like "The Stepford Wives." I think it was because, for a while, I wondered if I was one of the "replaced" ones. )

Do you think there are men who would prefer to replace their wives with docile, mindless automatons who will do their bidding at all times?

People are still trying to solve the tough ones,JEANLOCK, and maybe some of them are unsolvable in this imperfect world. Doesn't mean we should stop trying, tho'. I think we at least took a step in the right direction when the law was passed that criminals could not benefit from their crime. That money they used to get from selling their story to Hollywood...that should definitely go to the victims. ...BAbi

Horselover, Yes, I do believe that some men do want the type of wife you describe. However, I am not one of them! My wife is deceased and I can tell you right off she was neither docile or mindless. No! Not at all!
I think the type of man or woman, for that matter, who is seeking a spouse who conforms to that description is an insecure person lacking in self confidence and seeking assurance in a partner who will be a "yes man or lady."
By the way, in that post, you let me know your gender. I had been wondering about it.

Bill H

I saw the other day that they are remaking The Stepford Wives, and Bette Midler will be in it. Her, as an obedient subservient wife I've got to see.

Jean, I don't know why they would want to remake "The Stepford Wives." The original film was pretty good. So many of the remakes are never as good as the originals -- "Miracle on 34th Street," "Charade,"...

Bill, I thought my name, Ann, gave away my gender.

Horselover, I don't recall seeing your signature "Ann" in any of your post. I cant see it in your post 417. Perhaps I'm having some trouble with your post like Jean has had.

Bill H

I've been reading holiday mysteries.

Fredric Brown's Murder Can Be Fun, first published in 1948. The plot revolves around radio mystery scripts which are kept secret until on the air - even from the actors. However, the Santa Claus Murder in one of the scripts is carried out ahead of the on-air performance, and then more murders from the 'secret' plots occur. The number one suspect is the scriptwriter who naturally looks for another suspect. There are tipsy scenes meant to be funny and probably were in the '40s-'50s. Then again, the characters are New Yorkers and take taxis to and fro. The writer's issues of creativity and revision are as relevant today as in the past. Nicely plotted, well-written, nostalgic behind-the-scenes radio tidbits.

David William Meredith's The Christmas Card Murders, published in 1951. In Stelton, NJ four men receive Christmas cards with the pre-printed message "Merry Christmas - Happy New Year" only the Happy New Year is struck out and added in type is "You will die before the old year ends." One of the four is stabbed to death on Christmas Eve while caroling. Murder and attempted murder follow while the narrator, Clarence Standish - a reporter who is dealing with his adult polio and is one of the four - investigates. The setting is well-done as well as writing and characterization. The chapter titles are taken from Clement Clark Moore's 'A Visit from St. Nicholas' and the chapters expand on the title nicely. Another enjoyable read.

Canine Christmas, anthology, Jeffrey Marks, editor, published 1999. The mysteries aren't cutesy-poo and the four-leggeds don't talk or think like human beings or reason out the crime. Short stories of varying quality.

I'm starting now on some of the "murder in the old isolated mansion" holiday mysteries.

Marvelle

horselover--

About remaking Stepford Wives: They didn't ask me; I agree with you. I hardly ever watch the remakes. Saw Miracle on 34th St. with original cast Sunday, and enjoyed it hugely. It was perfect, even in B&W.

Margaret... what was her name, that child actress of those days? I adored her. I never saw a film of hers that she didn't make me cry. I swear it was her greatest talent! (I know I could remember the name is only 'Thatcher' didn't keep getting in the way. Talk about irony!) ..Babi

YES! O'BRIEN! THANK YOU, EME.

EME, Welcome to the discussion and thank you for answering BaBi's question. Did Margaret O'Brien play in movies as an adult?

Bill H

My movie book lists, Glory 1956, Heller in Pint Tights 1960 and Amy 1981. I did see her on TV a couple of times in drama type shows. She was one of my favorites also.

Mary

Mary, thank you for sharing that with us.

Bill H

It wasn't Margaret O'Brian in 'Miracle', it was Natalie Wood.

Yes Jean, It was Natalie Wood in "Miracle...", and she was wonderful. It's so sad to think about her untimely death by drowning. I watch the original version at least once every holiday season.

Bill, You are not having any trouble with the posts. I have never signed my posts. I just thought the discussion leaders knew everyone's name because they generally use it in the e-mails they send to me.

Just so no one will think I'm dead, I'm letting you know I'll be off the 'air' til after Christmas. I'm planning a do-it-yourself Christmas, and am compiling recipe books of the recipes I've got off the internet. It's a lot of work, and I won't be out to play til the day after.

If anyone needs to contact me, my e-mail address (and soon, my picture) are on my personal page.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS, JEANLOCK

You've got a great idea for Christmas, sounds like fun but a lot of work. See you after Christmas.

I'm still in my reading project. Over the past year I've snapped up whatever interesting mystery bargains I could find to give as gifts. Now I'm deciding who gets what and writing clues on the gift tag.

Marvelle

Jean, yes,
Happy Hollidays

Bill H

Just got home. No TV tonight except the news. I'm so tired of the TV show JAG and Third Watch that I stopped watching them. JAG is the same thing over and over again . Third Watch is tiring. Instead I'm going to listen to an Ellery Queen audio. "The Dragon's Teeth." The back cover of the cassette case gave this interesting note.
"Ellery Queen was both the pseudonym and the detective creation of two cousins. Frederic Dannay and Manfred B. Lee, each born in 1905 and raised in Brooklyn. The Ellery Queen series was launched when Dannay and Lee entered a1928 writing contest using the pseudonym. The Mystery Writers of America named Queen Grand Master in 1961"
We should consider doing one of the Queen stories as a book discussion after Boscombe Valley, or perhaps you folks would like to chose one of your favorites.

Bill H

I read Stephen King's book "On Writing" which was very good, but he did mention in the book that he wrote "Dreamcatcher" while recovering from his accident. If he wrote "Dreamcatcher" under severe pain, perhaps this would account for the reason the book was not like the others.

Bill I like "Talsman" very much, but I just couldn't get into "Black House". This was bad because I was supposed to have reviewed the book for our library newsletter. I finally talked the folks at the library to let me review something else.

BaBi you are so right about the horror. Unfortunately, in today's world Hollywood and television tend to do "horror over-kill" as I am found of saying. But there's a danger in this because it makes us believe that horror isn't real. But that's not true. We have only to pick up a newspaper or watch the six o'clock news to know that there is evil and horror out in the real world.

Scrawler

Bill, I'm open to discussing any of the classical mysteries. I remember reading as a teenager the EQ short stories and EQ magazine but not much of the novels. Wonder which novels are considered 'his' best?

As part of my December reading project of old holiday mysteries I just read an EQ mystery The Finishing Stroke and, for comparison of similar plot treatment, a modern story by Marian Babson, The Twelve Deaths of Christmas.

EQ's The Finishing Stroke from the publisher's description: "It was Christmas and Ellery Queen was one of twelve people gathered for the hoidays in the immense and rambling mansion. That was the night the first message came -- but how and from whom no one knew. It was a warning of slow, deliberate murder. Night after night the warnings kept coming." On the twelfth night the message warns of 'the finishing stroke' and a corpse is found. I found it hard to suspend disbelief in a few critical areas of the story - for one thing how can 12 adults spend an isolated holiday for 4 weeks of Christmas and the New Year away from business and family? Enjoyed the writing and the set-up of characters and scene. The reader actually sees EQ age! (The story starts from the date of his birth in 1905, to the murder mystery of 1929, to the solution in 1957.) Overall a good read that I'd read again next holiday season.

I chose Babson's The Twelve Deaths of Christmas as a companion read because of the similarity in an old mansion, twelve guests for the holiday meal with subsequent tensions amongst the guests -- like EQ in that respect.

Babson's The Twelve Deaths of Christmas, from the publisher: "On the first death of Christmas, outside, the last-minute shoppers throng. Inside, Maude Daneson's rooming house is festive and cozy, the perfect setting for an old-fashioned Christmas. [But the murders start.] While the police scramble to find their man, Maude's unsuspecting lodgers are about to get a most unwelcome present: the killer is far closer than they know...and Christmas has only just begun." The plot is simpler than EQ and so is the characterization and setting. The ribs of the formula for the mystery genre are too visible IMO. It needed a bit or fleshing out. Not an engrossing read.

I think this is the first full-length EQ novel I've read but my memory could be faulty. Would be interested in hearing suggestions for an EQ novel as a group read.

Marvelle

Scrawler, I'm with you on Black House. I dragged myself half way through the story and then just completely gave up on it. Don't like it. I figure there are too many good books waiting to be read and there is no sense wasting my reading time on something I don't like.
Marvelle, I like the EQ stories you mentioned because I love reading mystery stories that take place in old mansions. I must read both of those. Did you agree with Babson's report about "The Twelve Deaths of Christmas"? I have no problem with a little disbelief -- The Finishing Stroke--as long as the story is entertaining. That is really what I want in a book.
I did most of my running around today because we here in the Pittsburgh area are supposed to have more snow late tonight (Saturday) on in to Sunday evening.
You know, I'm not really sure if I like audio books. They are entertaining but my mind has a tendency to wander while I'm listening to the story being read, and I will miss several paragraphs which necessitates rewinding the tape to find out what I missed. With a book I tend to concentrate more on what I'm reading and If I do daydream a little I only have to reread a sentence or two. Also, with a book I can skip over some lines that I really don't believe are vital for understanding the novel. The audio story reader goes over every line, at least I think the reader does.
How do the rest of you folks feel about audio versus book?

Bill H

Marvelle, I'm listening to the EQ story The Dragon's Teeth. Here is what acclaimed author and critic Julian Symons had to say, "Certainly among the best detective stories ever written." However, I like the big old mansions stories. Like I said, I'm going to visit our local B&N and see if they are in stock.

Bill H.

I prefer reading but when I have a mindless project to complete, like some needlework, then listening to a book makes the time go faster.

Mary

It is nice to have audio as Mary says when one's doing mindless work. How much I enjoy it depends on the reader-actor.

Bill, The Twelve Deaths of Christmas is written by Marian Babson, not EQ. I realize now that I wasn't clear about that in my post. The italics in my previous post were my personal responses to the two books I read. I'm just taking December to read holiday mysteries and some are familiar but many are new to me. I noticed as I read the Babson story how skeletal its story was compared to EQ's The Finishing Stroke. There's a world of difference IMO between Babson and EQ. On her own, without EQ as a standard, perhaps Babson's Twelve Deaths.... would be a satisfying read.

I think EQ wrote three holiday mysteries and I'd love to read them all. Anyone know the other two holiday titles?

Some EQ novels, mentioned in the Old Time Authors link in the heading here, that sound interesting to me for a discussion are 'his' first novel The Roman Hat Mystery (1929) which introduced the "Challenge to the Reader"; The Greek Coffin Mystery (1932) with its multiple solutions, perhaps EQ's most carefully constructed mystery and a favorite with readers & critics; The Chinese Orange Mystery (1934) where the corpse has clothes on backwards (and I think everything in the murder room is backwards too); and Cat of Many Tails (1949) which makes New York City itself a character in the mystery.

I'm interested in the above titles but also willing to discuss anything by EQ that strikes the group's fancy. We have a few EQ novels in our public library and there are also many inexpensive used paperbacks available online and B&N has some new reissued pbs.

I know we have some time yet for any choice. We have the Sherlock Holmes story set for January and that book is at my bedside table, tempting me to start reading.

Marvelle

Bill--

Although I don't listen to them much any more, they were a godsend to me when I had a long commute while I worked. I find that they tend to remain lodged in my mind long after I finish them, unlike those I read. Guess I'm more audio than visual. Yes, occasionally my mind would wander, and I'd have to rewind, but during the years I relied on them I listened to the complete Forsysyte Saga, the Dance to the Music of Time, All of the Palliser novels by Trollope, and the complete Strangers and Brothers by C.P. Snow. Also some more contemporary things I'd never have chosen for myself, but which were shared by the other women in our little subscription group. Someone named David Case read most of the British ones, and I "grew accustomed to his voice", and look back with fondness on those days.

One day, during the C.P. Snow series, I arrived at work just at a critical point in the story. So, unwilling to just cut it off, and wonder all day how it turned out, I circled the parking lot til it was resolved. Recently (during the Isabel hurricane) I bought a Sony walkman, and have picked up several books on tape at the library sale. Began to listen to one about ancient Rome, but put it away til after Christmas. But the tone of the book lingers.

BTW, how far are you from the PA turnpike? I may be driving up to Columbus in April/May, --maybe we could do lunch?

Mary, that's a good idea to listen to audios while doing mindless work, however, my mind wanders even when I'm doing mindless work ) For instance, I just finished shoveling snow off my drive way and I was thinking about other matters even then. ) The snow is still falling and I'm going to have to go out again pretty soon. But the names of the characters in the audio books tend to stick with me more so than book. I feel as though I get to know the feelings of charters better hearing them speak.
The name of the reader doing the audio of "The Dragon's Teeth" is Brian Fairman, he received a good review on the back cover of the audio case. He appeared in the film of The Great Gatsby and made a guest appearance in the TV movie "To The Manor Born." I saw both those movies but I can't place him.
Marvelle, congratulations! I see your post about the "The Twelfth Deaths of Christmas" made the ex Libris e-mail letter to SeniorNetters.

Bill H

Yesterday, my favorite mystery movie, "Rebecca" by du Maurier, circa 1940, with Olivia and Fontaine was shown on TCM. The fact that this movie is in black and white creates a more mysterious atmosphere I never tire of watching this movie. Do you feel this was du Maurier's best?

Bill H

Bill, I went to the library, but could not find "The Boscombe Valley Mystery," so I will have to read it on-line in order to participate. I hope it is not very long?

Movies that were made in black and white should be shown that way. That goes for "Rebecca," "Miracle On 34th Street," "Casablanca," etc.

Jean, I remember when PBS did "The Forsyte Saga." I watched it for weeks, and loved it.

Horselover, I have a library book which includes "The Boscombe Valley Mystery." It's in the anthology of short stories titled The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.

I agree about the black & white films which are especially effective for mysteries and film noir. Suddenly you see shadows and shapes. They become dim or fade away completely if a film is colorized.

Marvelle

Horselover, The Boscombe Valley Mystery is quite a short story. You can see for yourself by using this link I'm posting. here:
The Boscombe Valley Mystery
This is the best font face I found, and the print is much larger than the print in my book. for reading the story on line. However, your library may carry the "Complete Works of Sherlock Holmes" or some equivalent named book and I'm sure that story will be included. But anyway take a look at this link.

Bill H

Bill, Perseverence has paid off. I found "The Boscombe Valley Mystery" in a book called "The Original Illustrated Sherlock Holmes." This volume is filled with the most wonderful illustrations, as stated in the title, that I am sure you would love to see. According to the front flap, these are the original stories as they first appeared in the British magazine The Strand. This book also contains the entire "Hound of the Baskervilles." I'm looking forward to the discussion.

Horselover!
I have the very same book and I have had it for many years! Aren't the illustrations wonderful? These illustration make the story seem more real. I do believe this is about the best Sherlock book I have ever seen.

Bill H

Bill,

Is that the oversize 2-volume set with the original text? I used to have that but think one of the kids has it now.

Jean, no, my copy is not a 2-volume set. The stories are all in one large book that has a copyright date of 1984. I found this note on the title page--"With all the original illustrations by Sidney Paget plus additional illustrations by George Hutchinson and Frank H. Townsend.
I think the illustrations alone are worth the cost of the book. I'm sure Horselover would agree with me.

Bill H

I don't remember the publisher of the other set, but they were two large-format books, that is more the size of coffee table books. They had the illustrations, and lots of background material about Holmes, et al. They had dark green covers. I'll check and see if Janet has them. She does get upset when I attempt to temporarily repossess any of my books. But I'd really like to see those books again.

Jean, that sounds like a great set of books!! Are the illustrations large? Sherlock fans would love something like those.

Bill H

I too would love to know the publisher and date for that set; it sounds lovely.

I have the Heritage Press (publisher), 3 volume edition - Sherlock Holmes, The Final Adventures, The Later Adventures. The illustrators are Sidney Paget, William H. Hyde, George Hutchinson and many others from early printed editions of Holmes.

The Heritage Press books of Holmes are in slipcases, nicely bound with a black cameo inset into the front boards, speckled edges to the pages, and with largish print. They are inexpensive used books, each title - from A to Z - with a slipcase, and every book illustrated.

I'm gathering up the numerous Heritage Press titles and saving them for when my eyesight absolutely requires larger type. Right now they sit lovely on my shelves and I feel deeply satisfied looking at them, like a squirrel surveying a storeroom of nuts.

Marvelle

Marvelle, that was a beautiful description you gave us of your Heritage Press collection of books. Could you please share with us some of those other Heritage press book titles you have?
There are many Sherlock Holmes fan clubs and one is not far from where I live. I attended one of their meetings, the township chief of police was the president of the club, and I can tell you the members of that club really delve into the various stories including clothing, boots, canes, etc that was worn or used in that era. They even speculate as to why Doyle wrote a particular Holmes' story. This club would have Sherlock tours to England and visit, where possible, the various haunts of Holmes and Watson.
Did Conan Doyle ever write a story only about Sherlock's brother, Mycroft Holmes?

Bill H

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8950/holmes/paget.htm The original illustrations do a lot to bring the stories alive, and also to transport you back to the time when they were first published.

Hey, Horselover, thanks a lot for those illustrations. They are great! I book marked that website. Folks, the top illustration on the page showing Holmes lying on the ground examining the crime scene is from the Boscombe Valley Mystery. story.
I do agree with you that the drawings put you more into the story. They make me feel as though I were there with the characters. Again, thank you very much for finding that web site.

Bill H

After Horselover gave us those illustrations I did a little searching, too. I found the Sherlock Holmes museum. To visit it please click on
Museum
Found on the web.
"Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson lived at 221b Baker Street between 1881-1904, according to the stories written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The house was last used as a lodging house in 1936 and the famous 1st floor study overlooking Baker Street is still faithfully maintained as it was kept in Victorian Times."

Bill H

Loved the illustrations, Horselover. How very different Watson appeared in the early illustrations than the plump, bumbling movie Watson. Hollywood had just been playing the 'sidekick' for laughs for too long.

I've visited another Holmes site on the Net, Bill, but this one is new to me. Looks like a lot of fun. ...Babi

Here's another site you may find interesting. Scroll down the page to find pictures of actors who played Holmes. A little further down the page you will see the names of actors that played in the early movies. But strange to say I don't find Rathbone's name among them.
Erez's Sherlock Holmes
This page takes a few seconds to load but it does have a good bit of information.

Bill H

I apologize if I am overdoing this Sherlock Holmes business, but I just wanted to bring to your attention that you can listen to quite a few old time radio audios of the Sherlock Holmes stories. I am able to listen to them on the AOL audio player, however, I'm sure whatever your IPO may be it provides you with an audio player. I found the audios to be remarkable clear, but there is one or two that isn't so good. Scroll down the page for the story you like, and for a night of listening please click
Sherlock Holmes stories on Audio.
For an audio read by Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce please click the
The Bruce Partington Plan
Please allow time for the audio player to load after you click on the little horn besde the story. If you like these stories you may want to bookmark them.
I'll be listening to one of them tonight! Can you guess which one?

Bill H

I have an incomplete collection of Agatha Christie's books. She is a major factor in my early love of mysteries!

Bill this link didn't work for me. <Antique Detective Stories>

Welcome, GinnyAnn
I'm very happy you found us. I believe Agatha Christi molded the love of mysteries for quite a few of us. I enjoyed many of her works.
Thank you for bringing my attention of the link failure. I'll see if I can have it repaired. I tried it just now and it didn't work for me either. In the meantime try this one. If it works for you please let me know.
Antique Detective Stories
Are you going to join us in the Sherlock Holmes "Boscombe Valley Mystery" discussion?

Bill H

Bill, You are not overdoing it at all. The links you found will contribute to our enjoyment of the story when we start discussing it.

Not to give anything away, but in the movies I've seen Holmes and Watson were living together at 221B Baker Street. But in "The Boscombe Valley Mystery," Watson is living somewhere else with his wife. Do you know when he got married?

The link you posted in #464 worked for me. It is now in my Netscape Bookmarks.

Horselover, I don't know when Watson married. I'll try to find out

Bill H

GinnyAnn, I'm glad to hear the link worked for you ) After you called it to my attention I asked Marjorie to repair it in the heading also, so now that link in the heading should be a good clickable once more.

Bill H

I finally gave up and called my daughter because I thought she had the 2-volume set of S. H. I was talking about a while back. And she does. It's the Annotated Sherlock Holmes, in 2 volumes, published in 1967 by Clarkson & Potter. (an earlier edition was published by McGraw-Hill in 1947). So I looked it up via Google, and following are the first paragraphs of a review.

The Annotated Sherlock Holmes; by Arthur Conan Doyle; edited by William S. Baring-Gould Review by; Robert Wilfred Franson, August 2001 Clarkson N. Potter, New York, 1967; 2 volumes: 691 & 824 pages

----------------------------------------------------------------------

For Sherlock Holmes this is always the edition. The Annotated Sherlock Holmes is a full compilation, wonderfully loaded with extras for best enjoying Sherlock Holmes stories in their rich settings. The adventures center in huge and complex late-Victorian London and its environs, and range from affairs of state to humble mischances and odd disappearances, with related action from America to Afghanistan. Because of the British Empire's global reach, and so many new and strange people, customs, and creatures making their first impact on Western awareness in the Nineteenth Century, Doyle was able to suffuse many of his stories with a sense of new wonders from previously dark corners of the world.

The large-page, two-column format used by The Annotated Sherlock Holmes places the story text in the inner column of each page, and extensive notes and period illustrations in the outer column. This does not aspire to the grandeur of the multi-volume Interpreter's Bible, but the effect on enjoyability and even readability is more striking. Indeed, there is something Talmudic about reading the notes, many taken from The Baker Street Journal and other high-streets and by-ways of the Holmes experts, as they argue with each other's interpretations of dates, locations, genealogies, and so on. Facts and fancies of plot and technical details come in for a lot of cross-fire from the likes of Anthony Boucher, Christopher Morley, Dorothy Sayers, and other aficionados. But it's in good fun, and enlightening as well as amusing.

---------------

I knew I had it somewhere. I've told her I want to 'borrow' it back.

I have that two volume set. It is just wonderful.. A real keeper..

Jean and Stephanie, you two are so lucky to have that set of books. That edition sounds like something the Sherlock Holmes' fans clubs would love to have. Do you know if they are still available?
Oh, yes, are they large volumes, I mean, can they be held comfortably while reading?

Bill H

Bill, I was intrigued by the 2 vol edition of "The Annotated Sherlock Holmes" and found them at our public library today. The story we'll be reading is in volume two. The 2 books are HUGE! So huge that I regretfully didn't check them out because I was carrying books via bus and walking and the books weigh so much.

The "Annotated" boos aren't comfortable to hold in your hands and read - at least for me - however, if you had a book stand, either upright or the kind that are made in India that fold out, it would make them easy to read. I have a couple of the carved wooden book stands from India and they're quite cheap and useful for my larger books.

The print is rather small (not overly so, but definitely not large print) as are the pictures but the annotations are wonderful and the maps too. Love the map! What a wonderful set. I like my Heritage Press 3 vol set of Sherlock Holmes for the large print, attractive binding, and the many pictures by Paget and others - some illustrations are full page - yet I can't resist the annotated edition which is available used.

I've ordered the 2 vol set which won't get here in time for the discussion and I hope those who have "The Annotated Sherlock Holmes" will add tidbits of information as we discuss the SH story.

Marvelle

Bill,

You definitely couldn't read that set in bed, and I do ALL of my reading in bed. But sitting in a chair (recliner, easy chair, etc.) it's OK. I can hardly wait to get mine back this week. Both of my daughters have 3 5-shelf bookcases filled with books I've passed on to them, to say nothing of the hundreds I've given away. And still I keep buying them. That's what comes of being a born reader, and not having access to them growing up. It's a real part of my 'me' --the urge to have books.

Marvelle, thank you for that detailed description of the Annotated Sherlock Holmes. I had an idea they were very large and would need a book stand for comfortable reading. But what a treasure they are for mystery readers. However, you may receive them in time the discussion doesn't start until January 2. Come to think of it that edition would make a suitable holiday present.
Yes, I do hope the readers who have the Annotated Sherlock Holmes will share them with us when the discussion gets underway. I have had several e-mail letters from interested readers telling me that they are also going to join the discussion. This discussion should be very good. I hope

Bill H

Jean, I know what you mean when you say you have a lot of books. I had the same problem then I donated two full big boxes of books to the township library all in excellent condition and many of them were hard covers. The library volunteer had to use a dolly to take the boxes into the library. I even mailed some using our book exchange. But, you know, some of the books I gave to the library I sometimes wish I had back.

Bill H

This is actually a great site: http://www.sherlockian.net/

The original Sherlock Holmes stories

The world of Holmes and Watson

Arthur Conan Doyle

Sherlockian resources on the Web

Pictures, sounds, games

Actors: stage, screen, radio, TV

Books, journals and libraries

Societies and events

Sherlockian things for sale

Pastiches, parodies, new novels

Mysteries and more

England and the Victorian era

Of collateral interest

Frequently asked questions

What a great website, Horselover. Sherlock Holmes as Santa is ... shall we say odd? ... yet the two Holmes' I know, Basil Rathbone and Jeremy Brett, would make poignant and very human Santas.

The holiday is almost here and I still want to post some more info on holiday mysteries I've just read. Some of them have stayed with me and will definitely be re-reads next holiday. But I'll write on them tomorrow.

For now, I want to say to Bill, how much I appreciate your good nature and enthusiasm and work in making 'Classical Mysteries' a go. I've found a home here in CM with other enthusiasts.

Thanks to all the posters too. Jeanlock and Stephanie introduced me to a new (to me) edition of SH that I absolutely cannot live without. As you can tell, books are a weakness of mine as well as with others here at CM. Thanks to Horselover for the fab SH link and graphic.

Speaking of SH links, here's one which is an incredible replication of the Baker Street Flat .

Marvelle

I have been trying all day to get on to Senior Net I just now made it on to the web site.

Horselover and Marvelle, thank you both for giving us those two great web sites. I booked marked those.

Marvelle, thank you for your kind compliment, but I must say that the interest and enthusiasm of all the posters here have made Classical Mysteries a very "Classy Discussion" I am looking forward to more Classical Mystery posts and more short or long mystery discussions in the coming year. Many thanks to all of you.

Horselover, I do agree with Marvelle that is a great graphic and yes I would like to see Rathbone and Brett wearing that cap.What a picture Bruce would make in costume.

Can't you just picture Rathbone, Brett and Watson as those above dancing Santas )

Jean and Stephanie, thank you for making all of us aware of those two great SH editions and Stephanie I do hop you get your edition in time for the Boscombe discussion. I feel that is going to great discussion.

Bill H

Actually, no, I really can't see Rathbone, et al, as skating, dancing Santas. Lack of imagination, no doubt. I did enjoy very much the views of 221B Baker Street, tho' I was surprised to see so small a desk. All very homey; thanks for the links. ..Babi

Oh, BaBi, I can. I just mentally substitute their faces on each one of the Santa's, but who could we substitute for the fourth Santa? Maybe Nero Wolf, however, I can't recall the actor who plays his character. Wouldn't watching Nero dancing or skating be a delight? )

Bill H

I have been listening to the Ellery Queen story "The Dragon's Teeth." In this story EQ has Beau Rummel as an assistant. Does Beau Rummel appear in most of the EQ stories much like Archie in the Nero Wolf novels.

Bill H

You got me, Bill. I haven't read very many EQ books, and only one recently. Beau Rummel?? A take-off on Beau Brummel, I presume. ..Babi

BaBi, the first time Beau Rummel's name is mentioned the announcer says, "No, not Beau Brummel, but Beau Rummel. So I suppose it probably is somewhat of a take off on Beau Brmmel. Had enough of the Beaus?

Bill H

I had a cat named Beau, so I'm partial to the name. Actually, I like it better for cats than men; seem a bit too coy nowadays for men, don't you think? Actually, the parents surnamed Rummel who named their kid 'Beau' have a lot to answer for. ...Babi

Yes, Babi, they sure do. I just can't imagine me having a first name of Beau. Oh my.

Bill H

We have hardly mentioned the Father Brown stories by G. K. Chesterton, I enjoyed reading some of those stories. but I never got around to reading most of them. I found a web site that list some of these stories. If you would like to take a look at them just click here.
Father Brown
The story on this list that interest me the most is "The Early Years in Words and Pictures."

Bill H

I found a web site where you can read some of Chesterton's works on line. Although I did find the print to be a bit small for my liking. However, I found the Questia web site interesting They advertise themselves as the world's largest on line library. It may be worth visiting. Please let me know what you think of it? Here's the link.
Gilbert Keith Chesterton

Bill H

I guess you can include me in the discussion. It's only a few pages long, and those of us with the Annotated version have some interesting insights to contribute---just as if we had thought of them ourselves. I don't usually participate in online discussions because (to me at least) to do it right, I'd need to spend a lot more time on it than I have availabale. But a short story--why not!

Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas. Perhaps we should have read the Nine Tailors in December; it takes place at Christmas time in the area near Ely Cathedral.

I'm looking forward to the input from those with an annotated version, Jeanlock. Bound to learn something new. I'm reading the online copy, since my Holmes compilation doesn't include Bascombe Valley. On reading the first part, however, I find it vaguely familiar and suspect I read it at some time in the past. ..Babi

Jean, glad to hear you are joing in. Just like Babi I'm also looking forward to what those with the annotated version has to say. You know, if all the folks I've had e-mail from saying they are going to join the Boscombe discussion still plan on joining in, we are going to have a lot of readers there. Something tells me it will run over the eight day schedule. We'll have to see.
I had get a new surge protector today for my computer equipment the old one burnt out.

Bill H

What the Sunday Times, London had to say about Questia, The Worlds Largest Online Library may interest you. To read their report click
The Sunday Times, London

Bill H

"The Boscombe Valley Mystery" will open Friday, January 2, 2004, hope to see you all there.

Bill H

Have any of you read any mysteries by Simon Brett. I had never heard of him until someone gave me an audio tape of "The Body on the Beach." I really enjoyed its witty style, and got very involved with the characters. I'm going to look for other mysteries by this newly discovered author.

I just finished an old Ngaio Marsh classic, obtained thru' the Book Exchange. It was "A Man Lay Dead". This story is older than I am; the romantic lead is named 'Nigel', and actually says 'Yes, rather' and 'jolly'. I had great fun reading it, and it is still a fine mystery. I was not able to figure out 'who-dun-it'. My thanks to Ms. Marsh. ...Babi

Hi, Horselover. We were posting at the same time. I haven't read Simon Brett yet, but he is already on my list. In fact, I hope to pick up at least one of his books tomorrow at the library. Other people here have spoken highly of him. I'll let you know what I come home with. ...Babi

Yes I love Simon Brett and have always said his Christmas Crimes at Puzzel Manor is the perfect Christmas Mystery and like no other I have ever read, if you can get your hands on it, you'll love it.

ginny

Ginny, so good to see you here. Please don't be a stranger.
Horselover and Babi, thank you for telling us about those two stories. I have read here of so many stories I just don't know where to start first.
But isn't it great that WE DO have all these stories to read. I don't see how anyone has time to watch TV.

Bill H

On some more holiday mysteries that I read this month; these three all set in England:

Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot's Christmas has the highly particular and individual Poirot solve a murder in an isolated country mansion. One of Christie's better stories IMO>

A companion piece to the Christie story is Carter Dickson's The White Priory Murders, featuring Sir Henry Merrivale. While Poirot likes his tizane, Sir Henry loves his whiskey. Sir Henry is loud, physically large and bumbling, with a mind as cool, rational, and brilliant as Poirot's.

Then there is Cyril Hare's An English Murder about murder over Christmastide at a snow-bound country house. The 'detective' is scholarly Dr. Bottwick, a refugee from the Nazi concentration camps. His mental powers equal those of Sir Henry and Hercule. He is quiet, studious and considerate, constantly worrying about making social blunders. As an outsider - religion, nationality, culture, language - Dr. Bottwick is as individual as Sir Henry and Hercule Poirot. The difference is that he, unlike Sir Henry and Poirot, wants to fit in and he studies England, its customs and language. One of the more satisfying reads, particularly since readers learn something about English socieity from Dr. Bottwick's thoughtful, outsider insights. The only annoyance to the mystery were certain female characters - intended by the author I believe to be sympathetic - and wondering how they could be attracted to a man of distasteful political leanings. Different times perhaps when women weren't expected to take interest in politics? All things considered though, this is a book I'll read again next holiday season

Marvelle

Marvelle, I just discussed the Hare in the Mystery section and I agree totally, he's capable of creating in a few words an entire world, I particularly admired his ability to create a landscape or scene with only a few suggestive words and you don't want to leave, really, very similar to Christie. T hat's a masterpiece of a Country House mystery and actually reminded me of Poirot in some ways, as I see it did you, but with a twist.

Loved it.

I liked all those, they are not writing them like they used to, I think.

ginny

GINNY, it's been ages since I read the posts in the other Mystery discussion. I had to catch up to your post -- you even mentioned the Poirot book along with Hare's, just as I did. Great minds, you know.

I also read Simon Brett's The Christmas Crimes at Puzzel Manor recently. Loads of fun for the reader who interacts with the story, solving actual puzzles to the murders. One of the best.

I also recommend, although not a holiday read, Robert Harris' Pompeii a recently issued historical novel with mystery galore set in the background of volcanoes and the Roman water system; and the hero detective is the aquarius (aqueduct engineer).

Marvelle

The White Priory Murders is listed by Barnes and Noble as having a publishing date of November, 1990, but I remember having read that story way back when I was either in my late teens or early twenties and that is going way back. Is that a republication or could I be getting that story mixed up with something else?

Bill H

Marvelle, I love that thing, did you get all of the puzzles? I think there was one I had to look at the answer (and maybe two, they seemed to get harder or was that my imagination? Started out obvious and then, it was almost as if the author was toying with the reader, I loved it, and I'm thinking the answer to the last one is NOT in the book, is that right? I read it initially along with a friend and she got one of them, it was clear to her and not at all to me hahaahah but I'm thinking the last one I never did get, I'll go get it and reread it, I love that thing!

(We're talking here about Christmas Crimes at Puzzel Manor in which the author, with the requisite snowed in country house at Christmas, presents the READER a puzzle at the end of each chapter, which leads to solving the mystery, it's a hoot, by Simon Brett.)

ginny

BILL, you're right about White Priory Murders being a reissue. It has a copyright of 1934. Carter Dickson is also known as John Dickson Carr.

GINNY, no I didn't get the last clue and I'm still puzzling over it. I'd make a terrible detective, always wanting to freeze the action whether a dinner party or a hunt or...but while I'd be musing over clues, more dead bodies would clutter up the isolated mansion.

Marvelle

Marvelle, thank you for answering my question about The White Priory Murders. I knew I didn't imagine that I had read it a long time ago.

Ginny, now I'm going to have to read Crhristmas Crimes at Puzzel Manor. I love mystery stories that take place in manor or gothic houses those big old houses add more of a sinister effect to the story.

Bill H

It's amazing how one thing leads to another! A friend gives me an audio book that I enjoy, and Ginny recommends a book by the same author, and I am off on the trail of a whole new reading experience. I also got another audio book by Simon Brett called "Murder Unprompted." It's about an actor and amateur detective investigating a villain at work behind the scenes of a West End procuction in which he has a part. According to the forward on the first disk, Simon Brett had been involved in the theater himself and knows quite a bit about the subject.

Horselover, I'm listening to an audio book also. I didn't think I would like audio stories but I find my self caught up in this one and can't wait till I hear the cut come. Maybe I should fast forward and just listen to the ending ) Would that be fair?
Here is what the publisher says about Simon Brett:
Author Bio: "Simon Brett is a former radio and television comedy producer, who has been writing full-time for more than 20 years. Creator of the Charles Paris, Mrs. Pargeter and Fethering series of mysteries, Brett's psychological thriller, A Shock to the System, was filmed starring Michael Caine. Married with three children, he lives in an Agatha Christie-style village in West Sussex, England."
If I'm not mistaken, I saw "A Shock to the System" on TV. That was quite a thriller if that was the same one.

Bill H

Talk about one thing leading to another. My appetite for book lore was whetted when Horselover mentioned told us about Simon Brett, so I searched around for more of his works and I found this Amazon's review of "Mrs. Pargeter's Plot."
"Melita Pargeter, the genteel heroine of Simon Brett's series of whimsical cozies, is hardly your typical moll. Then again, the late Mr. Pargeter was considered (by his criminal cohorts, at least) a veritable prince among men. Now that he is gone (while his fortune lives on), Mrs. Pargeter decides to use some of her inheritance to build a country home. For such a large undertaking, Mrs. P. turns to someone she can trust, an old friend of her husband's who sports the moniker "Concrete Jacket." Despite his best intentions to keep on the straight and narrow while in Mrs. Pargeter's employ, it isn't long before Concrete finds himself in hot water when a corpse turns up in the wine cellar--to his dismay, all the evidence points to him. Before the cell door can slam behind him, the redoubtable Mrs. Pergeter is on the case, aided by the shadiest bunch of do-gooders this side of Robin Hood's Merry Men. Good writing, hilarious plot twists, and great characters make Mrs.Pargeter's Plot loads of fun. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title"
So many stories!

Bill H

Simon Brett's series about Mrs. Pargeter is a favorite that my husband and I both enjoy (which is surprising as our tastes are not that similar). They aren't classics yet but I'm sure they will be. Of all the classical mystery series my favorite authors are Dorothy Sayers and Agatha Christie. Every few years I go back and re-read some of their books.

FlaJean, I suppose Sayers and Christie are high on just about everybody's favorite list. We had a book discussion on Sayers' "The Nine Taylors" awhile back. If I'm not mistaken you took part in that discussion. Some folks don't care for the Lord Peter Wimsey series, but I always liked them.

Bill H

Tonight at 10:pm TCM is showing a Thin Man movie. "After the Thin Man" with Bill Powel and Myrna Loy--1936.. That was a long time ago and by the way:
Happy New Year!

Bill H

Happy New Year!

I'm devoting tomorrow afternoon to Sherlock Holmes so I can be ready to go on the 2nd.

Marvelle

OK, Marvelle.

Bill H

Well, I watched "After the Thin Man" last night and I can't believe acting was so bad in 1936. Some of the character actors were so awful that even I could have turned in a better performance. Jimmy Stewart was in the movie, too. Jimmy Stewart wasn't going to win an Academy Award nomination for his performance either.
But I did learn this from the movie: I believe my like for the classical detectives stems from the black and white films of those days. The atmosphere of the lighting makes the stories more dramatic, and I think that is what increased my desire to read the mystery stories of those days.

Bill H

The Boscombe Valley Mystery discussion is now open. Follow this link
Boscombe Valley Mystery

Bill H

We have said very little of Agatha Christie's Miss Marple. I must confess I have read only one of the novels. However, there is a considerable Miss Marple fan club.

What do you think of these novels?

Bill H

Miss Marple is my favorite Christie character. I've always preferred her to Poirot. Easier to identify with, I suppose. If I have missed one, it must be very old indeed. :>) ..Babi

I always enjoyed those books also. I like the idea of "a little old lady" who can outthink the rest. It doesn't pay to read too closely - some ideas expressed were a bit derogatory towards servants, etc., so I need to keep in mind the times.

N

Miss Marple is my favorite of the Christie stories, although I'm not overly fond of Christie and must be in the minority among mystery lovers. Loved Joan Hickson as the film's Miss Marple. She was perfect and brought Miss Marple to life.

Marvelle

I always liked the Miss Marple stories, and thought of her as a kindly little old lady. I kept reading things that had a different 'take' on the character, and Joan Hickson really brought out the fact that she was really a nosy little old lady. But those stories were good. I cut my mystery 'teeth' on Christie, and have always enjoyed them.

Joan Hickson really brought Miss Marple to life for me. When I re-read my Miss Marple mysteries I always have the picture of Joan Hickson in my mind.

Well, it seems we have quite a Miss Marple fan club right here. Perhaps one of Miss Marple"s novels would make a good book discussion. I found the one story I read a much easier read than the Hercule Poirot novels. I even find the Poirot TV movies hard to follow. How about you folks?

Bill H

I first saw Miss Marple as portrayed by Margaret Rutherford in films. Not a good beginning. Rutherford played her as comic relief and a pushy busybody. Joan Hickson played her as having an astute mind and a steel will underneath seeming diffidence; but she's still a busybody in her quiet way.

Bill, I'll join in any discussion. It's so pleasant to be reading the old mysteries with friends. I prefer the author you first mentioned, Ellery Queen - I became interested in mysteries through "his" mystery magazine - but I'm up for Miss Marple too.

Marvelle

Marvelle, I also enjoy discussing the old mysteries they bring back a bit of yesteryear for me. This is especially true of the golden oldie audio mystery stories. I was listening to a Sherlock CD featuring Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce of an old time radio program and there was even a commercial break. Can you believe the announcer was advertising "Groves bromo quinine tablets" as a cold remedy? This really transported me way back in time. I forgot for the moment I was living in the present )

I found a web site that features audio stories of programs featuring Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce doing Sherlock Holmes stories. I'll post the web site in my next post for you folks.<p.Bill H

The link I posted below will take you to the web site I found of the audio mysteries of Sherlock Holmes featuring Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce. After reaching the web site you have to scroll down about two thirds of the page and the stories listed in blue font are the audio stories, however, I did find some near the top, too
When you find a story you like click on the blue font this will take you to the audio page of the story. Then click on the little box beside the story to listen to it. Give it a few a few seconds to load. If you wish to download the story, right click on the little box and then click on "Save Target As…" I download it to my desktop for future listening or in order to burn it to a CD, for my audio library.
Basil Rathbone an Nigel Bruce
After Rathbone retired in 1946, Tim Conway replaced him as Sherlock Holmes. Nigel Bruce still plays Dr. Watson. There are a great number of audio Sherlock stories with Tim Conway and Nigel Bruce. Below is the link for the Conway, Bruce audios. Follow the same procedure for listening.
Tim Conway and Nigel Bruce

Bill H

BILL, I always found the Poirot books more difficult than the Miss Marple. I felt that in the Poirot mysteries, Christie was not entirely fair. The 'key' factor to the solution of a Poirot mystery often seemed to be something very obscure, mentioned once, early on in the story. More than once I would come to the climax, only to yell "Ah, come on!! No fair!" ...<bg>Babi

BaBi, I agree with your comment about the Poirot novels. These obscure clues are easily overlooked. Even the TV series of Hercule Poirot never went over too big with me. Perhaps there are just too many characters in the stories.

"And Then There Were None"
"Agatha Christie's most famous and acclaimed novel! Ten strangers are gathered together on an isolated island by a mysterious host. They share the darkest secrets of their pasts, and then, one by one, they die"
A student has this to say about the novel
Oh I love this book so much. My teacher had assigned us to read this book, before we have to read Murder on the orient Express, in my special reading group. I'm sorry to say this but I hated that book so much... So when I was assigned to read this book chapter by chapter, I had it done in one night I couldn't put the book down. I got in trouble but it was definately worth it. One of Agatha Christie's best.
The above is the synopsis of this novel on the Barnes and Noble web. I didn't realize this was her most famous novel. Who the heck was the detective in the story? I remember reading it many years ago, but from what I read, I'm going to read it again.

Bill H

It's been a long while, Bill, but I don't think there was a 'detective', per se, in this book. Not a Marple/Poirot/etc., anyway. There was a protagonist, of course, who told the story and and solved the mystery. I'm relying on an old memory here, so I am open to correction. ..Babi

Which is the Christie book in which the narrator turns out to be the murderer?

Was that a Christie book? I remember reading a book like that, but I don't remember it as being one of hers. Definitely a departure from her usual style, if it was. And I suppose it's also possible that more than one author has used that gimmick. ...Babi

The book I'm talking about was definitely a Christie book. Was it Roger Ackroyd? That name sticks in my head for some reason.

Well, I'm going to have to read "And Then There Were None." to find out what's happening. It has been so long since I read the novel it will be like reading it again for the first time.<p.Bill H

Jean, Barnes and Noble shows "The Murder of Roger Ackroyd" as being a Hercule Poirot novel.

Bill H

I think it was Curtain: Poirot's Last Case where Poirot returns to Styles.

Marvelle

Maybe it was "The Mysterious Affair at Styles". I must have it around here somewhere. But not going to go hoisting boxes of books around after just spending the afternoon at the orthopedidists. Not til after the physical therapy, at least.

Jean, I know what it is like to have physical therapy. I have hadphysical therapy on my back several times caused by strain and arthritis. Take care and don’t forget to ice down after you do the exercises they give you to do at home

Bill H

Bill--

Oh yes, I'll get the bags of frozen corn and peas as I did before.

Incidentally, A&E is broadcasting the Murder of Roger Ackroyd on the Poirot program tonight. I'll be watching. Sorry I haven't made it on to your Holmes discussion, but I've just been swamped with catching up on postponed doctor visits, major household chores, and the like that have engulfed me since Christmas. I finally dug down through the pile and pulled out the book, put in a bookmark, and will try to read it tonight (although I SHOULD finish knitting the scarf I began for my daughter's birthday LAST year)--it's only four pages, so perhaps I can manage it and then just knit fast.

Jean, thank you for the tip on TV A & E showing of The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. I'll be watching, too. Isn't it a coincidence that we just mentioned that story and here it is being shown on TV? It is too bad you couldn't make it into the Sherlock discussion we all had a good time there.

Bill H

Bill, Thanks for the Sherlock Holmes discussion. I really enjoyed it. Next week's TV Guide was advertising a Sherlock Holmes movie called, "Study in Terror." It's supposed to be about Holmes trying to solve the crimes of Jack the Ripper. Have you ever heard of this movie?

I got a book about Agatha Raison. This is a new detective character for me, but I understand there is a whole series about her. Has anyone read any of them?

Horselover
It seems like I remember Rathbone and Bruce doing a black and white movie with that title, but I'm not sure about that. Anyway, I'm going to watch for it, and thank you for the tip.
Last night or early this morning I watched a TCM movie called Lady in the Lake by R. Chandler. Robert Montgomery was Phillip Marlow and Audrey Totter costarred with him. Everything was seen through the eyes of Marlow (the camera) and after a while I found watching this type of filming of the movie to be a bit boring.

Bill H

That film technique was made famous through Orson Welles' "Citizen Kane." The difference might be the rich visual interest, great panning scenes, intricate depictions of dark light and shadow, and varied action of CK. I don't see "Lady in the Lake" as being so spectacular in scope. Did it give a claustrophobic feeling, Bill? That might have been part of the intention but no, it doesn't sound interesting to me either.

In Saturday's mail I received the Annotated Sherlock Holmes, a little late for the discussion but I was ill anyway so just as well. The set is used but has the original pictorial slipcase (beat-up) and dust jackets. At least now I have the edition to use as reference when re-reading SH. Maybe one story a week is a reasonable goal.

Marvelle

Marvelle, First I'm happy you received your Illustrated SH book.
In regard to what you asked about the Lady in the Lake filming. I really can't explain the feeling, other than to say I found it exceptionally boring. Audrey Totter came across, as well as the other actors in the movie, as carrying on a monologue with no one present but themselves. What could've been a good movie was ruined by faulty directing.

Bill H

The Big Sleep

I Mentioned that I saw the movie "The Lady in the Lake" with Robert Montgomery playing Marlow and that got me to thinking about the other novels with this detective. Here is one of them

From the Publisher

" Chandler's first novel, published in 1939, introduces Philip Marlowe, a 38-year-old P.I. moving through the seamy side of Los Angeles in the 1930s. This classic case includes as characters a paralyzed California millionaire, his two psychotic daughters, plus blackmail, murder, corrupt wealth, secret vices, family scandal, and more.

A review said that Elliot Gould played the part of Marlow in the Big Sleep.

AudioFile

"…. As difficult as it may be not to imagine Humphrey Bogart as Marlowe, Elliott Gould's performance resonates with truth. He sounds like the quintessential Marlowe. Lurking in his heavy baritone are just the right touches of mockery and cynicism. As Marlowe, he manages Sternwood's daughters with seeming disdain for their charms; and as the daughters, he switches from the troubled Carmen to the mysterious Frances with the sureness of the gifted actor that he is. S.J.H. (c) AudioFile 2002, Portland, Maine

Didn't they make a movie of this novel? Perhaps Bogart played the role in the movie? Whoever did star in the movie, I hope he did a better job than Robert Montgomery.

Bill H

REVIEW Rating: 5 (Superb) This was Chandler's first novel, and it introduced the tough, wisecracking character of Philip Marlowe, the model for so many hard-boiled detectives to follow. Going back to read it is a funny exercise, since it's hard at first to shake off the memory of Chandler's imitators. Chandler is good enough, though, that soon all is forgotten but his story and his own characters.

Marlowe is summoned to the house of the elderly and very rich General Sternwood, ostensibly to help clear up a minor embarrassment involving his daughters and some unpaid gambling debts. Sternwood's adult daughters are very spoiled and very badly behaved. Marlowe meets the younger one in the foyer before he has a chance to meet the General, and, unstable and apparently drunk as she is, she only has time to bat her eyes briefly at him before falling into his arms in a transparently intentional faint. Marlowe has to hand her off to the imperturbable butler before going on to get his assignment.

Although that assignment is limited, Marlowe soon finds out that the elder daughter was briefly married to an organized crime figure who has since disappeared, probably with the wife of another gangster. While investigating the case, Marlowe stumbles into the immediate aftermath of a murder, with the younger daughter an apparent witness, sitting naked, spaced-out and giggling on the couch. Soon Marlowe has been driven by a combination of curiosity and obligation to delve much deeper into the case than his employer ever wanted him to.

The complicated plot is resolved in a very surprising way before it's over, but most of the fun of this book is in Chandler's writing: the moody lead character, the skillful descriptions of delicate negotiations about to erupt in violence, the portrayal of a very dysfunctional family, and the self-reliant center of the Marlowe character. Some of the appeal is historical, but most of it is not -- the book wasn't written so long ago that Chandler can't still draw us in.

A remake of the same movie has an older Robert Mitchum playing Marlowe and General Sternwood is played by Jimmy Stewart. I didn't like as much as Bogart's movie. I think it was made in the 70s so it reflected the times and it was also in color.

Horselover, it seems that the heroine always falls in love with Marlowe ) In Lady in the Lake our heroine fell for Marlowe right off the bat. I may read The Big Sleep that sounds good, however, I didn't care for Lady in the Lake but I shouldn't let a movie cloud my judgment of a story.
I'm sure I would chose Bogart over Mitchum for the Marlowe character. But I would like to see Bogart and Jimmy Stewart together in a move. Although a lot could be said for the Mitchum/Stewart combination. They both could get pretty feisty. Bogart was a natural for the tough private eye parts.
Hey, folks, just for the fun of it how do you feel about Bogart playing Sherlock Holmes instead of Jeremy Brett, or Bogart as Nero Wolf with side kick Nigel Bruce as Archy ) What a scream that pair would make

Bill H

And how on earth would they make scrawny ol' Bogart look like door-wide Nero Wolfe? Nah,...wouldn't work. Can't really see him as Sherlock, either; not the English gentleman type. But if you want to play it strictly for laughs...yeah, why not? ...Babi

BaBi, yea, it was strictly for laughs. I really had a good chuckle when I thought about the switch, in fact, I'm still getting a good chuckle from thinking of it.Wouldn't Bogart as Sherlock shocked the Lords and Ladies of the English Realm!
But seriously, here's a link to the Raymond Chandler web site and it is really worth a look see. After I got to the web site I clicked on movies and was surprised at all the movies that were made from his books. I forgot about a quite a few of them.
Raymond Chandler

Bill H

Scrawler, Thanks so much for telling us who was in the remake. I could picture Robert Mitchum in my mind, but spent a whole day trying to think of his name. It's such a relief to stop trying to think of it. Whew!

Horselover
If you are ever again stuck for the name of an actor, actress, or movie just go to Internet Movie Data base and type in a movie that you know the actor appeared in or any combinations of movies or actors and you'll find it. Here's the link
IMDb
For example, I went to that web site and typed in the name of the movie The Big Sleep and I got a link to the 1946 movie with Bogart and a link to the 1978 movie with Robert Mitchum.

Bill H

I just picked up a new book at the library that looks really interesting. It's a collection of short mysteries, edited by Anne Perry, entitled "Much Ado About Murder". It features, and I quote, "All-new, Shakespeare-inspired mystery stories.." The roster of authors includes Perry, Jeffery Deaver, Margaret Frazer, Peter Tremayne, Edward Hoch, and many others.

If you see it, take a look at the cover. It features characters from Shakespeare's play. I readily identified the upper three, but I don't recognize the two at the bottom. ...Babi

Ann Perry

Simon Hawkey

BaBi, I found two books bearing the title of "Much Ado About Murder." The first, as you say, seems to be a collection of stories and the second book appears to be the story itself. Barnes and Noble gives 355 titles by Ann Perry but she seems to have coauthored quite a few of them. The story itself by Simon Hawke sounds very good.

Bill H

Yet another example of the same title appearing on two different books. It can get confusing. ..Babi

Babi, do you think Ann Perry may have gotten permission to use the title from Simon Hawkey for her collection of stories?

Bill H

I'm leaning towards closing the "Classical Mystery" discussion. Very few are posting here and I see the old time authors such as Agatha Christie, Earl der Biggers, and stories of Charlie Chan, etc are being discussed in Mystery Corner. Therefore, I know longer feel there is a need for the Classical Mysteries discussion.

Bill H

I'm sorry Bill if you feel this forum isn't visited enough to remain active. Between working and being ill over the holidays I know I haven't posted as much as I'd like but I've enjoyed this site. Reading classical mysteries is a passion of mine but I think there are few of us readers left in this pop-culture world of television soundbites.

I've been looking at Cornell Woolrich lately and have stockpiled some novels by Ellery Queen who I've found to be more complex and more concerned with the human condition that I remembered from my younger days of reading. Isn't that true though of much of what we've read early in life compared to later re-reads? I especially like the EQ collections such as The New York Murders, Hollywood Murders and Bizarre Murders and so forth which separate EQ into stages of development as a character, following the maturation and changes of his creators. I was so impressed with the EQ Christmas mystery I read that I just had to get more of his mysteries.

Marvelle

Marvelle, I do enjoy your always informative posts. With input such as yours there is hope for Classical Mysteries.

Bill H

Bill,

I'm afraid I may have been responsible for some of the problem. When I posted all that stuff about the 'rules' for writing mysteries. They really did belong in the Classical mystery category but somehow it came out of something in the other group and that's where I posted it. Maybe we could have a discussion of various classical mysteries and how well they followed those rules? The classical mysteries were really analytical puzzles and the reader was presumed to be pitting his/her detecting capabilities against that of the detective.

I'll try to reform and not do cross-over stuff any more. Mea culpa.

I just finished "An English Murder" by Hare. It's an oldie. I enjoyed reading it. I don't have time to compare it to those "rules," but the solution depended on knowledge of some fine points of British political history/law. The hints were there that it did, but I certainly didn't know that much about their government system from that era (1950's).

It's the English manor type of mystery, classic "snowed in" setting.

N

I just read that at Christmas, nlhome, isn't it fabulous? I had to order it from England, where did you find it? Loved it.

I've just gotten a marvelous shipment of Ngaio Marsh, I am a big fan of hers and recently decided to read all of hers, Barnes & Noble is reprinting them and they are cheap and fabulous and very pretty. I've got

Tied up in Tinsel which Marvelle mentioned but I'm saving for Christmas next,

When in Rome

Black as He's Painted

Vintage Murder

Last Ditch

and of course just finished Spinsters in Jeopardy.

I really like the way she writes.

Her first book was in 1934 and she wrote her last one just before her death in 1982, a 50 year career and 32 novels. I am planning to read all of them, just like I've watched all of the Sherlock Holmes movies and listened to all of the tapes available of the radio series (and there are a LOT of them!)

ginny

Even w/o the 'rules', Jeanlock, I'm sure there are times in reading a mystery when all of us have thought "NO FAIR!".

I like Ngaio Marsh, too, and thanks to a generous lady on the book exchange, I received three Marsh books before Christmas, and will be receiving three more one of these days. If anyone here would like the ones I've finished reading, let me know. ..Babi

I found this book on interlibrary loan, so I don't get to keep it. It came from a larger library, so maybe they have more space to store older books. I hope they keep it around so more people can enjoy it. It is an old copy, from 1951.

I also just finished Spinsters in Jeopardy, and I enjoyed it. Will want to read and reread more by Marsh, but I have such a long list....

N

Speaking of manor house mysteries, I have a Sherlock story called "The Manor House Case" that I can either read or listen too. That will make for a nice evening tonight because it is very cold and snowy here. Great night for mysteries. I'll tell you about later.

Bill H

Bill, I hope you won't close this discussion. It's a great group, and I have gotten so many wonderful ideas of mysteries to read from the posters here. We are all real mystery lovers. We could have some mini-discussions of favorite stories right here instead of merely mentioning them.

NLHOME, I just finished reading Marsh's Spinsters in Jeopardy too, however. I enjoyed it tremendously. I got it on GINNY's recommendation who also mentioned the Alleyn's son Ricky as being '3 years old going on 90.' (Or was he 6 years old? Can't remember now. Ah, the tricky memory!) Ricky is the best and the interactions between himself and parents were fab and made this mystery story a standout.

Marvelle

Yes Nlhome, I was coming in to ask what you thought of the child in Spinsters, I agree with Marvelle, he's the best and one thing I really need now and can probably find on the internet IS...I need a list of the books she wrote in order so I can read the next one IN series, she's on a roll with that precocious child who seems 90 hahaahah

But what I can't find on the internet and would really like to know from fans of Classical Mysteries IS.... I have never read ONE Nero Wolfe? And I would like to start since he and I have the orchids in common, but I want a recommendation for a good one. I like the country house atmosphere, the English Murder was just perfect for me, is there a Nero Wolfe which you all liked best which would make a good one for me to START with? The first book is often so important, it can turn you off the entire series in a heartbeat?

ginny

Ginny and Marvelle,

Yes, I did enjoy Ricky in Spinsters in Jeopardy. He reminded me of my nephew, who was also that curious mix of old and young. He, too, was the only child of professional parents and had a vocabulary and knowledge beyond his years, yet was still a little boy. I don't remember Ricky in any other of her books, but from the discussion here, I realize there are quite a few that I haven't read. Yet.

I can't think of a Nero Wolfe book that I didn't like. I would think that it would be good to start with one of the earlier books.

I enjoyed "An English Murder." The next one on my list is more comtemporary, but I too will be checking out the used book stores for some of these older titles. This summer I found a group of 4 by Ruth Rendell and several by Agatha Christie, at 50 cents each, so that's an incentive to look for more.

n

Ginny, Nero Wolfe didn't live in a 'country house', but I think you will like the atmosphere of his 'city house'. It's 3-4 stories, if you include the orchid greenhouse on the roof. Two servants, one of whom tends the orchids, the other tends the house and kitchen. References to marvelous meals, for those who enjoy food (who doesn't?). The inimitable Archie lives there, also...plenty of room. Big, comfortable.... Try it! You'll like it! ...Babi

This link has a bio, home information, and bibliography on:

Edith Ngaio Marsh

There's also some wonderful sublinks about other mysteries at the bottom of this first page. The next link has background information on the mystery structure of Ngaio Marsh which I skimmed briefly:

The Mystery Format of Ngaio Marsh

The part I loved best in Spinsters in Jeopardy is when little Ricky and parents are on a night train and Ricky wonders about the difference with 'being outside in a train' and 'being inside in a house' and if a train runs through a house, then which is outside or inside? And his father is struck by a disturbing thought that Ricky might grow up to be a metaphysician. Loved that.

I'm not sure how often Ricky appears in the Alleyn series because Troy isn't in all of them so I don't think Ricky would be in each book following Spinsters. He does appear as a young man in The Last Ditch and he's become something even more frustrating than a metaphysician.

Marvelle

"Spinsters in Jeopardy" sounds great. Will have to get a copy soon. This discussion comes up with such wonderful idea, if only my reading queue wasn't longer than the time available. )

Has anyone read any of the Agatha Raisin series by M.C. Beaton? Someone gave me "The Day the Floods Came." It appears to be about a middle-aged English lady who is an amateur detective. Like Miss Marple, she had better instincts than the police (this seems to be typical of all the British amateur detectives).

Anywhere you start on Nero is a great read. But I agree work with the oldest ones first. Nero is a real piece of work and one of my all time favorites. Archie has pizazz and the house sounds like a great place to live. All in all a series worth reading over and over.

Well, it is going to take me a little time to answer all the great posts in an appropriate manner. So many good books have been mentioned, and the links that Marvelle gave us belong in the heading. I'll see if I can arrange having it placed there. Many mystery readers can benefit from those web sites.
Jean had a good suggestion when she said,
"Maybe we could have a discussion of various classical mysteries and how well they followed those rules?"
That sounds like a good idea, however, it would have to be just a general discussion in this forum because the book discussion by it self would have to be given a reading schedule. Would anyone care to begin?
Just so many of you have mentioned "An English Murder" that I definitely will have to read the story. Perhaps I can get it through my township's electronic library.
Ginny, you said, " Tied up in Tinsel which Marvelle mentioned but I'm saving for Christmas next"I, too, like to read mystery stories at certain times of the year. My favorite time for mysteries is October through February and the gothic house type mystery I really enjoy between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Do you, folks, have a certain time of the year for reading mystery stories?
Great posts.

Bill H

I don't know what rules BABI has so I'll include here the link I posted in the Poe discussion:

Van Dine's 20 Rules for Writing Detective Stories

Here's a long essay by Carolyn Wells on the elements of detective stories. The "Structure" section is interesting but I think this might be too unwieldy to use:

Wells' The Technique of Mystery

Can BABI and others include links on the rules so we can select one to use?

Marvelle

I've corrected the links which should open now.

Bill, I forgot to thank you for the Internet Movie Data Base site. This is going to be a great help to me when memory fails. Thanx.

Where are "those rules" you were referring to in #574?

I know I don't post as much as I would like, but it's nice to just drop in once and awhile to see what you all been up to. You're all dear friends and I don't want to loose any of you. Between several discussion groups and my own research work for my novel - time is of the esence but I promise to visit you more if you'll only stay aboard.

Below is an interesting and artfully done website on Nero Wolfe. Be sure to check out the clickables, especially the one on orchids which includes a Rex Stout article "Why Nero Wolfe Likes Orchids." Also has a bibliography in the first sublink of the site ("series of mystery novels") and wrapped around the biblio is a chronology of Nero Wolfe's 'life':

Nero Wolfe Page

The sublinks that didn't work for me in the above were on food and the other on Rex Stout himself.

An interesting aspect of Wolfe is that the New York bownstone was his sanctuary, his ideal controlled life, a Shangrai-La of sorts, and he rarely left it. When Wolfe did leave, it was always with great reluctance and fanfare. Here's a list:

Stories where Wolfe Leaves-Doesn't Leave Brownstone

Fer de Lance is the first Nero Wolfe story and a good introduction to his rooftop plant rooms. The Stout stories use a genre formula and repeat elements in each mystery such as the round-up of suspects, Nero and Archie's attitudes towards women, etc. I'd say the attractive to these stories are the brownstone environment and the relationships of the recurring characters (esp. Wolfe & Archie), rather than any mystery puzzle. The one story that I suggest skipping is Too Many Cooks published in 1938 and seen from today's standards not as 'liberal' racially as Stout intended. It might undeservedly put you off Nero Wolfe.

Here's a straight-forward, unfussy bibliography of Stout's works if you'd like an easy to read list:

Rex Stout Bibliography

Lots more sites on the web but I particularly like the first link which gives potential readers a feel for the Wolfian World.

Marvelle

ANNE, I've been remiss in posting myself due to work, writing, and discussions on another site plus the holidays and catching the flu. I'm taking today finally to play on the Net. I hope that CM will continue. It's such a great place to visit.

Marvelle

Horselover, you are welcome for thanking me for giving the IMDb site. That site has helped me considerably over the year
You will find the "rules" you asked about in Marvelle's post #575 there she gives us the link to "Van Dine's 20 Rules for writing Detective Stories" and "Wells The Technique of Mystery"
Scrawler, Classcal Mysteries is not closing. I just needed some posts to make it a viable forum.

Bill H

Ginny, mentioned that she has listened to most of the Sherlock Holmes tapes and that there are a lot of them. Well, there is a web site were you can listen to most of the Rathbone Bruce stories. I know I posted this link before but here it is again.
Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce
The stories you can listen to are listed in blue font and most of them are found by scrolling about three quarters down the page. You can listen to them right there or, if you have burning software, you can copy them to the desk top (monitor) and then burn them to a disc for future use. That is the way I do it. Sorry to be redundant but I just don't any of you to miss out on them.

Bill H

I asked Marjorie to place one of Marvell's links in the heading. The top link, Alphabetic List of Mystery Writer, will take you to all of the writers. There you can click on the letter of the writer you are interested in. When you find the author's name click on it and up will come all of that author's novels.

Bill H

Thank you, Bill, that's a great site, if my printer was working I'd print those out in order, I wrote Tony who administers that site to ask if he knows the theme song to all the Sherlock Holmes stories, it's driving me wild.

Thank you all for the recommendations for Wolfe, and Marvelle, I've ordered the Fer de Lance one so we'll soon see (it's not a police procedural, I hope, I hate those).

What are the quailifications to BE a Classical Mystery? Is Margaret Yorke considered one?

ginny

Ginny, the web site of "A Guide to Classic mystery and Detection" gives this:
This is an educational site containing reading lists and essays on great mysteries, mainly of the pre-1965 era."
However, I don't suppose they are the last word on what constitutes a classic mystery. Here is the link to the web site
Guide
This web site is well worth the visit most of the old time authors are listed in blue font which provides a link to their works and a short synopsis of the stories. I believe you will like this web site. Scroll down the page for the author's names

Bill H

GINNY, Nero Wolfe mysteries are definitely not police procedurals. Wolfe and Archie put forth great effort to keep the police out of the brownstone and their private detective work.

It might be fun to come up with a consensus of what defines a Classical Mystery. What I got from the site BILL posted is that a Classical Mystery -

is a well plotted tale, whether a cozy or hard boiled, in which "the unraveling of a mysterious set of events is the central focus of the story".

The author of the site, Michael E. Grost, also says that work in any genre should provide aesthetic delight (be a pleasure to read), engage the reader in the action and characters, and studying it trains readers to express themselves well using language. (I'm condensing his thoughts to an extreme and may be leaving out something important.)

Grost excludes from mystery fiction many kinds of suspense fiction, tough tales of action, books about criminals, books inside the minds of killers, and thrillers. For instance the suspense story puts the hero through suspenseful situations; a crime novel is a mainstream like novel whose subject is crime

He lists the Big 3 of mystery writers as Christie, Carr, and Queen. These three form a canon with other writers. All three wrote a large number of "brilliantly puzzle plotted novels." A canon is the yardstick by which other works are measured and Grost is all for having a canon. He says that the Golden Age of Mysteries is 1910-1945 but there are contemporary authors who fit the criteria of classical mystery writers. The Golden Age tales are composed of impossible crimes (that turn out to be possible); or the rogue; or the detective.

The number one clue to determining if a work is a Classical Mystery, from what I'm getting from Grost, is the well plotted puzzle tale.

Well, the site is a start to finding a definition but I bet we could find something more concrete.

Marvelle

To me a classic is one that stands the test of time. The author influences future authors, and his/her books are still relevant and enjoyable for future generations. ...Babi

Bill,

Here are 3 sites with mystery writing rules. The first one is has the rules formulated by Dorothy Sayers for joining the Detection Club. The SS Van Dine rules are about the same period, but I suspect that the Elmore Leonard rules are more recent. Haven't read them all yet.

http://www2.sfu.ca/english/Gillies/Engl38301/oath.htm
Sayers' Rules for Detection Club

http://www.mysteryinkonline.com/twentyrules.htm
10 rules SS Van Dine

http://www.mysteryinkonline.com/writingrules.htm
Elmore Leonard (not the classic rules)

As for what constituted the 'Golden Age of Mystery Writing', according to this, it's from 1914 to 1950

http://www.sldirectory.com/mystery.html

What is the time frame for the 'test of time'? And what makes it a clasical mystery rather than a classical novel such as Don Quixote? What's the difference?

I think we're faced with combining two definitions to create a new one. What's 'classical' and what's a 'mystery' and what makes a Classical Mystery what it is.

Marvelle

Actually, I think what we're talking about here is the 'classic' mystery. And as to how to differentiate between mysteries and other types of literature, a mystery story is a mystery story. Since the end of the classic mystery period (after 1950) the lines have begun to blur. Check out the material at the sites mentioned above.

I used the identification of Classical Mysteries since that's the name of this forum but it doesn't matter to me if such mysteries are labeled classic or classical. I hoped people would provide their definitions and we could combine thoughts for a group definition. Perhaps then we could see the differences between many of the modern mysteries with those we discuss here.

For instance, what is a mystery? I liked the link BILL provided that said (paraphrase) a classic(al) mystery was a puzzle plotted tale with the focus on solving the puzzle; yet I feel there should be more to identifying the CM. It's fine if no one's interested in this; we can go on to other topics.

___________________________

Tonight I finished reading Ellery Queen's book The Greek Coffin Mystery which has a foreward explaining why the 'real' escapades of Inspector Queen's son are being recast as fiction and starts with a torn out obituary notice and the first chapter titled "Tomb":

"From the very beginning the Khalkis case struck a somber note. It began, as was peculiarly harmonious in the light of what was to come, with the death of an old man. The death of this old man wove its way, like a contrapuntal melody, through all the intricate measures of the death march that followed, in which all the intricate measures of the death was conspicuously abent. In the end it swelled into a crescendo of orchestral guild, a macabre dirge whose echoes rang in the ears of New York long after the last evil note had died away."

There are plans of the church grounds including the cemetary; floor plans of the dead man's house, a missing will, strange events, murders and attempted murders and EQ at his deductive best, and a tad over confident. EQ offers, 70 pages before the novel's end, a 'challenge to the reader' to solve the mystery.

I enjoyed this tale, one of the earlier EQ mysteries, and hope to continue with EQ over the next week or so.

Marvelle

BaBi, I agree with your statement that a classic mystery is one that stands test of time and I'm sure the same could be said of the authors of mystery lore.
Jean, thank you very much for the several links you posted pertaining to the rules for mystery writing. I'm sure they will be a sound platform if any of us here wish to discuss this topic.
Ginny and Marvelle, I think of a Classical Mystery" as very good mystery novels that predates the 1950s and stands the test of time. Also, the fine reputation of the author contributes to the "Classic" mystery. I feel the term "Classical" as used here is the same as in Classical automobiles, airplanes, etc. I realize the 1950s could be an arguable pre date time.
As far as "...what is just a mystery" I think of those as recent mysteries. You, BaBi and Jean gave us a very good explanation as to what you feel is classic mystery. .

Bill H

A mystery, surely, is a problem with no obvious solution. The challenge of the who-dun-it, of course, is to find the solution.

Not all of the books classed as 'mystery' on todays library shelves fall into that category. In many, it is known 'who-dun-it'; the tension is in catching the killer before he kills characters we like! ...Babi

When you say a classic mystery has to stand the test of time. How much time are we talking about? Can we really compare the mysteries written say in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s to those written say in our present decade? What makes a mystery stand the test of time?

Scrawler, for me, the time of the classical mysteries range from the Conan Doyle and Poe era to the 1950s. I would imagine for some this period could reach further back in time and extend to a later date. I suppose I am thinking of the popular old time authors of the bygone mystery novels.
The Online Merriam Dictionary gives this as one explanation for "classic."
Function: adjective
1. being of old, recognized, and enduring interest, importance, or quality "a vintage comedy from the silent movie era."
I suppose that is just about as good as any explanation.

Bill H

Bill, I like that comment about classic.

Since GINNY brought up Nero Wolfe, I've thought about the novels featuring NW and am uneasy with classifying them as classics. The mystery puzzle and solution are negligible and don't hold the story together. The draw for me has always been the setting (brownstone with plant rooms) and the relationship between NW and Archie. Plotting is rather plodding.

On the other hand, to play devil's advocate, the NW stories create an entire world that invites the reader inside where Velie and gang are denied admittance. So, while NW stories are not well plotted puzzle mysteries IMO, they are classical mysteries with the creation of a mystery world as real, and almost as well known, as Sherlock Holmes - NW stories being of old, recognized, and enduring interest. Maybe an illogical belief on my part.

Marvelle

Did a search for dictionary definition of 'classical'. -------------- CLASSICAL Pronunciation: 'klasikul

Matching Terms: classical architecture, classical ballet, classical conditioning, Classical Greek, classical haemophilia, classical hemophilia, classical Latin, classical logic, classical mechanics, classical music, classical mythology, classical scholar, classical style, Classicalism, Classicalist, Classicality, classically

WordNet Dictionary

Definition: [adj] (fine arts) of or characteristic of a form or system felt to be of first significance before modern times [adj] of recognized authority or excellence; "the definitive work on Greece"; "classical methods of navigation"

Synonyms: authoritative, classic, definitive, Graeco-Roman, Greco-Roman, Hellenic, neoclassic, neoclassical, standard

Antonyms: nonclassical

------------------- We usually refer to cars, etc. as classic rather than classical although as shown above, they can be used as synonyms. I usually think of classical as relating to cultural things.

In my last post I left out a name for the dictionary. It should read
"The Online Merriam Webster Dictionary."

Bill H

Nice definition Jean. I completely confused characters in my last post. Sergeant Velie works for Inspector Queen in the EQ mysteries; he isn't part of the Nero Wolfe stories and for the life of me I can't remember the name of the police (lieutenant?) antagonist in NW. Need to start reading NW again.

Marvelle

So what your saying is that "classics" refer to those mysteries written prior to 1950. But as time passes won't that time frame change too? In the year 2050 "classics" would than refer to any books written between 2000 and older. But is "time" the only critera for "classic" books? It seems to me that there has to be something more to describing a "classic"? Does a "classic" mean a best-seller? We say a classic is a "vintage" book like a silent movie. But can we really compare silent movies to today's movies. Or for that matter books written in the 40s and 50s to today's mysteries. I think one idea for describing a "classic" might be that it is more than just enertainment - it is something that everytime you read it - it touches you in some way. For example I just read "1984" again and it made me think that with everything that's happened in the last year or so that we are living what was described in "1984" right now and that thought really hit me like a sledge hammer. I think this is another way of describing a classic.

Do you know that the Ellery Queen Mystery magazine is still being published. I think it is the oldest such magazine in continuous publication. When Dashiell Hammett started his writing career, there were dozens of such "pulp" magazines, and this was where his stories were first published.

I read a book not long ago that defined a mystery story as a plot where the reader does not know the perpetrator of the crime and solves the puzzle along with the detective. This was contrasted with the "thriller," where the reader knows the perpetrator and follows the protagonist through a series of efforts to solve the puzzle.

Marvelle, you have a flair for words! "THE PLOTTING IS PLODDING." Beautiful!

By the way, I looked it up. It is Inspector Cramer that Archie keeps waiting at the door. ...Babi

Oh thanks for jogging my memory. Cigar chomping Inspector Cramer, and he had a sergeant(?) that was Archie's nemesis?

I've just returned from the public library where I ordered some NW books on intralibrary loan. Since I have to wait a week for the loans, to while away the time, I picked up a Rex Stout biography (fascinating man) and another book, what is called a 'biography of a house', The Brownstone House of Nero Wolfe: As Told by Archie Goodwin by Ken Darby (editor?).

ANNE, I think a book should be viewed sans consideration of whether it's a bestseller which has nothing to do with lasting through time. Bestsellers are the popular books of the here and now - for days, weeks or (rarely) months. Sometimes a bestseller stands the test of time but oftentimes not. This is true of award-winners too. Not many books do last through time.

I'd love to see something concrete, or as concrete as possible, regarding what makes a mystery a 'classical mysteries.'

Marvelle

Scrawler, in addition to being just old, as today's mysteries will be in 2050, I think the Merriam Webster dictionary hit it just right when the gave this definition of "Classical."
1. being of old, recognized, and enduring interest, importance, or quality.
If today's mystery novels meet these tests then, yes, I believe they will be "Classical" in 2050. Plese let me know in 2050 if you think todays mystery novels meet this description )
In the Ellery Queen Novels does the character "Beau Rummel" appear in many of these novels? I had listened to EQ story "The Dragons Teeth" that this character was in and I just don't care for the guy.

Bill H

THE ADVENTURES OF THE SECOND MRS. WATSON Michael Mallory Deadly Alibi Press (January 2000) Trade Paperback $15.99 Genre mystery ISBN # 1-886199-06-X Highly Recommended

Amelia Watson is the second Mrs. Watson, who is the main character and narrator of this wonderful collection of short stories. Much to the dismay of both her husband and Sherlock Holmes, Amelia often takes on the role of amateur sleuth, and does so with great success. The great Holmes even finds himself in a place to call upon her unique abilities and insight. As a former actress, Amelia is almost as good at disguise as her rival for Watson’s attention. Headstrong and opinionated, she is not at all typical of the women of this period, though she is deeply devoted to her husband and always annoyed when he runs off to “play” with Sherlock Holmes. The first story in the collection is also Amelia’s debut as a character, “The Left Behind Wife”, which first appeared in the Summer 1995 issue of Murderous Intent Mystery Magazine. One of her delightful stories has appeared in every issue since. This collection presents some of the best of these stories including one called “The Adventures of the Ripper’s Scrawl”, which provides a final showdown with Jack the Ripper. In THE ADVENTURES OF THE SECOND MRS. WATSON Michael Mallory has managed to stay true to the traditional feel of a Holmes story, and yet give the reader a delightfully new and refreshing twist on the Holmesian world. This book is a must for any Sherlock Holmes fan.

Horselover, thanks for letting us know about the 'Second Mrs. Watson". It sounds like something I wouldn't want to miss.

Marvelle, I definitely agree about 'bestseller' not necessarily making a book a long-term winner. I was startled, on reading a listing of prize-winning books (inc. Nobel and Pulitzer), to find I had never even heard of most of them!

..Babi

In your opinion, do you think that the old time authors such as Agatha Christie, Dorothy L Sayers, etc, and their stories reached or even exceeded the same classical achievement of Conan Doyle and Edgar Allan Poe? Are the last two authors the hallmark of classical mystery and horror stories?<p.Horselover, thank you for bringing that magazine to our attention and also mentioning Jack the Ripper I forgot all about him. I found an interesting web site of Jack the Ripper that is well worth visiting. If you wish to take a peek here you go.

Jack the Ripper

That link will you to a unique 1880's period which takes you into the dark world of fog, gas lamps ...

Bill H

Bill H

They were the first of the mystery writers as we know them today. So, yes, they had more of an impact than say Sayers who came at a later time. As in most cases when we go to compare things it becomes difficult, because each mystery writer brings his own untique persona to their stories. Most mystery writers reflect the times they are living in unless they are writing historical mystery stories. This adds to the difficulty of comparing them to others. Can you really compare the 1800s to the 1930s? Isn't it a little like comparing apples to oranges? Now on the other hand if we compare the characters and their motives than we have something to compare, because the short of it is - people don't change through the years. Their methods of murder may change, but their motives for doing the crime really don't change.

Scrawler,

I think the term Classic Mysteries will always refer to those of 1924-1950. Other periods will have other classifications.

HORSELOVER, I'll be on the lookout for that magazine. Sounds interesting.

BABI, I find lots of wonderful authors, writers I'd never experience otherwise, from the awards and best-steller lists (usually awards). I check out writers I don't know and sometimes find a true winner, like Orhan Pamuk's My Name Is Red. Following up on authors from lists can end in a satisfying read. It's similar to solving a mystery puzzle I think; first you have a list of suspects (potentially 'keeper' authors) and you track down clues (read books) and sort the clues out until you can successfully tag one suspect as being IT. Our of numerous suspects there are very few ITS, which I feel is to be expected. I enjoy the chase as much as the capture and it is so exciting to have 'found' a fine author who's new to me. (It's what I do too with the links in the heading here at CM -- follow up on certain authors.

ANNE, one trend I see in contemporary mysteries is that there is less puzzle plot and greater emphasis on the personal lives of the (usually) amateur detective. Even Nero Wolfe had the main focus on the mystery despite life in the brownstone. And I agree with JEAN that the general cutoff is 1950, although Poe and Conan Doyle were well before the start of the Golden Age they are the classic precursors of that age.

Yikes, BILL! That Jack the Ripper site is enough to keep me inside at night. Although at 5 victims our Jack is a small-fry mass murderer compared to today which is a sad comment on modern life.

Marvelle

Both Jean and Marvelle agree that the 1924 through 1950 is the era for classical mysteries and I tend to agree with that. But what should the era of Poe and Doyle be called?
Scrawler made an interesting assessment when she asked about comparing the detective stories of the 1800s to the 1930s. This made me wonder what comparisons could be made for those stories. Can any of you folks find any comparisons or the opposite for that matter for these novels?
Marvelle, I know you are am Ellery Queen fan and in one of his stories there is an assistant named "Beau Rummel" seems like he is to EQ what Archy is to Nero Wolf. Is this Rummel character in all the Queen stories?

Bill H

I'm sorry, but I do seem to have a wayward memory. In all the discussion of classic mysteries, I suddenly remembered that a long time ago (about 1965) I had read an article by Edmund Wilson in which he really took off on mystery writing. That article sparked a never-to-be-forgotten (by me, at least) argument with my boyfriend of the moment that nearly got me evicted. (We were parked outside my building in the summer, windows were open, and I guess we became somewhat overheated in our discourse.

Anyway, I figured Google had never let me down yet, so did a search on "Edmund Wilson on mysteries" and turned up the following link.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gjdemko/praise.htm

The article is a response to the Wilson article, but I think you'll get the gist. I'll keep trying to find the Wilson article.

Bill, Actually I had it wrong: it's 1915 - 1950.

And here are three more interesting-looking articles about mysteries.

http://www.mysterylist.com/declog.htm

http://www.mysterylist.com/whatis.htm

http://www.springfieldlibrary.org/stacks/

Jean, thank you for that first link I haven't gotten around to reading the other two you posted. However, I did read the Edmund Wilson: A Rejoinder. Well, Edmund comes across to me as not having ever enjoyed anything in life. I read detective fiction for enjoyment. I don't try to analyze the work or to solve the mystery as I read because that would make it work and not fun for me, however, I do sometimes form an opinion of who the culprit is as I read along. I don't think Edmund Wilson ever got that idea.
I agree with George Demko that The Nine Tailors was a superb novel. I do believe the landscape of that story was the real star! And the author's background information of that landscape with its dykes and gates gave me a real history lesson as to England's Fen country. Most of the stories Wilson disliked are classics and loved by millions of readers. I suppose he belives we are all out of step but him. Do you think it could be the other way around? )Although he does have one redeeming quality in so much that he likes Sherlock Holmes:o)
Well, I'll put those other three links on my must read list but at first glance they, too, look very good.

Bill H

Those are all great links. I'd love to see the Edmund Wilson article if anyone finds it.

BILL, as far as I know there was only one Ellery Queen story with Beau Rummel and that was The Dragon's Teeth, aka The Virgin Heiress published in 1939. EQ did introduce other characters to see how popular they'd be to his audience. Beau Rummel, probably an allusion to the historical Beau Brummell (1778-1840), was meant to be a crossover romantic figure that didn't succeed with the reading public. Below is probably more information than anyone wants about Brummell.

George "Beau" Brummell was a middle-class Englishman who aspired to fame and the society of the upper classes. He decided to become an arbiter of fashion and introduced the tailcoat, from its original use as a country riding coat, as town day wear. By 1860 the tailcoat was redefined as evening dress, rather than day wear, for the fashionable man.

Regency Men's Wear

Brummell rejected the expensive, sumptuous day wear of the upper class males - velvet pumps, silk breeches and hoisery, embroidered colorful silk coats, bicore or tricore hats - and replaced them with the tailcoat in dark blue wool, back leather boots, plain white shirts with starched white cravats, and top hats. This refined fashion became quite a romantic draw in the Regency Period.

1818 Cartoon of Dandies Dressing

The dandyism that Brummell made popular was a lifestyle that celebrated elegance, refinement and witty cynicism.

Marvelle

Welcome to Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine, publishers of the world's leading crime and mystery writers since 1941. Join us on our site for highlights of each month's print issue, including excerpts from our award-winning short stories, our book-review column The Jury Box, and The Mystery Crossword. It's the place to be if you love a good mystery!

http://www.themysteryplace.com/eqmm/

Marvelle, aren't many of those old Award-winning books out of print? (Especially the ones no one ever heard of.) I was curious about "My Name is Red", by Orhan Pamuk, since you praised it. A quick line check of my library catalog shows they don't have it. I wouldn't want to put a lot of time into tracking down an old out-of-print book, only to find that it is out-of-print because only the critics liked it! :>) ..Babi

If there is a web site for the mag, how about doing a search using the name Shirley Fay? A friend who once had a story published circa 1965 plus or minus.

Bill, maybe Edmund Wilson just got stuck at Sherlock and never got any further. I don't think the essay is available on the net, but I'll check the bookstores. PS, I've never got to the store to check out J. D. Carr's Burning Court, but still have a bag of books in the car to take there. When it stops snowing, etc.

"The mystery novel, the kind that sets forth a crime and its detection as a story, is not really very old. It began as a short story a little over a hundred years ago. Here then are a few comparisons of our early mystery stories:

Everyone knows Sherlock Holmes. He is first in the pantheon of crime-detectors and always will be. The amateur detective is usually male. Probably, because, until lately, men had the reputation of being brighter than women are. These masterminds usually follow the model as first laid down by Poe. They are, as a rule, of independent income or at least able to sample life's opportunities at their whim, due to a particular happy circumstance. And they are, almost by definition, eccentric in some intellectually superior way: C. Auguste Dupin, Poe's odd Parisian gentleman, for instance disliked the light of day to the extent of keeping all the windows shuttered in his "time-eaten and grotesque" mansion, lighting his interiors with "strongly perfumed" candles. Only at night did he willingly venture out to see as Poe writes: "that infinity of mental excitement which quiet obserervation can afford." You may find a more modern parallel in the aversion of Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe to stepping beyond the front door of his Manhattan brownstone, and in his passion for cultivating orchids.

Usually, too the amateur detective has an encyclopedia mind and wide-ranging interests. So, something peculiar and much extraordinary marks the genius amateur.

And these masterminds usually have a "Boswell," a partner or confidant who is the narrator and who, while humbling himself, extols the superiority of the mastermind, as the amateur detective pits his wits against the fiendish, almost-as-good mind of the villain of the story. The villain is usually "identity unknown" until the climax, and the villain's identity, by reader expectation, should be a surprise. In the late twenties there was the popular Philo Vance of Willard Huntington Wright, who wrote his mystery series as though each were reports of true crime. The narrator is Philo Vance's secretary, his Watson. He is called "Van," and S.S. Van Dine authors the novels. Later, in England, Agatha Cristie's Hercule Poirot had Dr. Hastings to tell his story.

It is interesting to note that when Dame Agatha gave us Miss Jane Marple, she wrote, most of the time, in the objective third person. Jane Marple, if not the first female mastermind, was the best of her time, and she is almost the opposite of the male genius-sleuth. Miss Marple is unpretentious. Therefore, she is underestimated by almost everyone concerned with the crime. She dithers about and says seemingly silly feminine things. Men rush to help her up from deep armchairs and to retrieve her knitting. She doesn't use bad language nor have fistfights, but Jane Marple, too is one of the immortals." - "How to write mysters" by Shannon Ocork.

Whheee!! We have had a bad snow and sleet and freezing rain storm and more on the way tomorrow. The snow is covered with a thin film of ice and driving is treacherous. I have been trying to rid my drive way of it all so I could go shopping but thankfully I have enough food stored up to last me a while. When I get squared away here I'll get back. However, in the meantime I was trying to find more on Edmund Wilson and I found a site that gives some of his writing and a caricature drawing of him. Click on this drawing to enlarge it.

Edmund Wilson on Writers and Writing

Bill H

Bill,

Thanks for that E. W. post. I'm printing it out ---all 14 pp-- just can't read that much online. I only have one telephone line and no one can ever reach me by phone because I'm online. I do give them my cell phone #, but they just don't use it.

"...Poe's odd Parisian gentleman, for instance disliked the light of day to the extent of keeping all the windows shuttered in his "time-eaten and grotesque mansion,…."
Scrawler, yes, we encountered that mansion in our discussion of Murder in the Rue Morgue. Would it not be dreadful to live like that? And thank you for that informative post.
Marvelle, I'm truly relieved to hear that "Rummel" only appeared in The Dragon's Teeth" for some reason I didn't like him. Perhaps it was because I listened to that tape and didn't care for the voice.
Horselover, did you say you receive the Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine? Using some of the links that it took me too I see there is an Alfred Hitchcock Mystery Magazine also. So, so much to read.

Bill H.

BaBi, Orhan Pamuk's My Name Is Red is in print, available in paperback and hardcover. One source is B&N.

Marvelle

I think Cornell Woolrich, James Cain, Earle Stanley Gardner, and Dashiell Hammett - the authors of hard-boiled detectives - are Classical Mysteries but many don't have a "Watson" accompanying "Holmes." How different they are from the 'body in the library' gentle CMs of Sayers, Christie, Chesterton, Wolfe and Queen; yet I enjoy both types.

Marvelle

Correction to my above post. I've gone and mixed up names again. I don't include Earle Stanley Gardner in the hard-boiled detectives but rather Raymond Chandler.

Marvelle

I'm not sure it would be so bad. I tend to shutter myself away when I'm doing research for my novels and short stories and the weather is rainy or snowy. That way I dwell on something positive instead of becoming depressed by the rain or snow.

I have a question. Do you know why Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe had an aversion of stepping beyond the front door of his Manhattan brownstone and why he had a passion for cultivating orchids?

Do you think Rext Stout and Poe had a similar aversion in their own lives or was it just something the authors created from their own imagination?

SCRAWLER, Archie repeatedly accuses Wolfe of laziness. I always attributed the latter's reluctance to go out to a disinclination to stir himself. He had enough to occupy himself at home, and preferred that everyone and everything come to him there. Exercise confined to walking from office to dining room to bedroom is a major factor in his need for outsize furniture. ..Babi

ANNE, Poe was an outdoorsman and before he had to earn a living, the unthinkable for gentlemen of his period, he was quite the athlete. While he spent the rest of his mature life working, he retained a love of nature and fellow creatures including cats and native wild birds. In his essays he stated that the stories set in darkness and/or with a claustrophobic indoor atmosphere were done for effect; to set the tone. From all I've read I don't believe that darkness and the shut-in atmosphere were abnormally present in his actual life - for a writer that is.

Marvelle

BaBi and Scrawler both commented on Nero Wolfe's aversion to leaving the Brownstone. Well, I got a little curious and searched the web for an answer. I found the Nero Wolfe web site very interesting. It lists the number of times Nero does not leave his home and gives the number of times he does leave. They are about equal! The following is one paragraph from the site.
"Here is a short piece about what to read if you're new to Wolfe:
To someone new to Wolfe, I would have to recommend starting at the beginning of the Corpus, which is Fer-De-Lance. This is the first book Stout wrote about Wolfe, but it's surprisingly detailed. In some other author's series that I have read, the characters develop over time and their worlds/fictions grow in detail. To some extent Stout does this with the world/fiction that the books and stories are set in because it does change to keep up with the mores and political environment of the times but over all the characters don't change that much from their beginnings in Fer-De-Lance. Wolfe is sedimentary and Archie is the leg man (in both senses of the phrase (G)). Wolfe drinks beer, is a Gourmet, loves orchids, and doesn't like to leave the Brownstone or ride in cars. Archie likes to be outside, loves to walk, eat in greasy spoons, drink milk, and is the chronicler of their exploits. Just to name a few of the facts about our favorite fattie and his Boswell that occur throughout the series. So if you can find a copy of Fer-De-Lance, that is where I would recommend that you start, BUT, if not, start with whichever one you can find. They ALL stand alone and are delightful reading. Some Buried Caesar, The League of Frightened Men, Too Many Cooks, The Black Mountain, Gambit, Death of A Dude, to name a few, are ALL good starting points. After reading a few and searching for the rest, I went back and started at the beginning and read them in order. And have done that several times. We read them in order on the Wolfe list and sometimes I read them with the list and sometimes just read the email postings. I envy anyone just beginning their exploration into the world of Nero, Archie, Fritz and Cramer and the gang. I hope you enjoy their companionship as much as I have."
Here is a link to the web site. Maybe you can find out more about his aversion to the out side world. One writer on that site claims he found the "in" "out" stories to be about equal )
Nero's Web Site
I also found a web site that offers a Guide to Classic Mystery and Detection. If you visit this site please scroll down the page a bit till you come to : Introduction: A Brief History of Classic Mystery Fiction..
A Guide to Classic Mystery and Detection
Perhaps we can give our own pro and con opinions of what the writer offers as his opinions to the guide of Classic Mysteries.

Bill H Bill H

Bill, I don't subscribe to the "Ellery Queen ..." magazine because I can get it at my library.

Scrawler makes a very good point that "these masterminds usually have a 'Boswell,' a partner or confidant who is the narrator and who, while humbling himself, extols the superiority of the mastermind, as the amateur detective pits his wits against the fiendish, almost-as-good mind of the villain of the story." It's through the narrator that we find out how the detective operates. On the other hand, there are stories, like those of Dashiell Hammett, where the detective describes the action in the first-person, and we must sift out his personality and values for ourselves.

NOTE: Ellery Queen was actually two men--Manfred Lee and Frederic Dannay. They chose "Ellery Queen" as the pseudonym they would use as a team.

I like the mysteries much more when the mastermind has his/her "Boswell." And that reminds me we haven't said much about the women private eyes. Did they have their "Boswells?"

Bill H

HORSELOVER, I hadn't thought of checking the library for the EQ magazine. I'll do that when I pay my weekly visit. BILL, Cyril Hare's An English Murder is a Christmas mystery and I thoroughly enjoyed it. You're in for a treat. It's going to be a yearly read for me.

__________________________

A "Boswell" gives readers more details of a detective's personal life and more description which makes it interesting. Yet I like the CMs of Hammett, Chandler, Queen etc who don't have Boswells; that alone can't be the determining factor of what is/isn't a CM.

Let's see - female detectives. I'm stuck on Christie's Miss Marple who was Boswell-less although she, Miss M, wasn't the narrator so there's an outside view of her. There also is usually an acquaintance or relative who explains Miss M to the uninitiated readers and characters. With the technique of narrator and acquaintance/relative we get a vivid personal picture of Miss M, her village life, and astuteness.

If the dating of CM is up to 1950, who are the other female detectives to consider?

Marvelle

Marvelle,

Miss Marple had a nephew (I THINK it was a nephew) who was a policeman and I think he sort of served the same purpose.

Yes, the nephew was with the police and sometimes he was in the stories and sometimes not. The explaining of her character was done by either the nephew or friends of Miss M's in addition to the omniscient narrator 'who' would fill in any remaining blanks. I don't think nephew/friends were her Boswells per se because they explained some basic facts of Miss M to another character(s) and then more or less faded from the story. It is perhaps a minor point that they aren't as present in the Marple mystery as Watson is to Holmes, Archie Goodwin to Nero Wolfe or Boswell to Johnson. I rather liked the fact that Miss M was a force unto herself and yet how Christie was able to explain Miss M with a creative combination of omniscient narrator and relative/friend which rolled into one makes for a Boswell-like character. In that respects there is a 'Boswell' in the Miss M mysteries.

There are many other CMs that don't utilize a Boswell character.

JEAN, do you know of other 'old-time' mysteries with a female detectivie? There had to be some, surely there must be, but for the life of me I can't come up with more names.

Marvelle

Marvelle, your question about female detectives in the classic period sent me 'search'ing. There were a lot of books in which a woman did the detecting, but no series I know of featuring the same character. Wilkie Collins wrote a number of books of that kind, tho' I think he would fall somewhat before the 'classic' dates that have been featured here. ..Babi

Well I started the Fer de Lance Nero Wolfe one but I have to say it wasn't Nero's day that day so switched to the new Ngaio Marsh, Last Ditch, and Marvelle has indicated it's the next after Spinsters, Ricky's grown up (darn it) she could have made a whole series out of him, but again it is fabulous, we're in a village called Deep Cove on the English coast in an old pub and it's so real, and atmospheric that you really feel you're there. I spent a whole summer on the coast of Cornwall, (but I think this is the West Coast in the book) but every word brings back a flood of memories. I am hooked enough to order as many of hers as I can, the Death in a White Tie looks fabulous. The writing hooks you immediately, it's elegant, assured and urbane, the way it used to be, and it's wonderful.

ginny

Horselover, maybe I can get the EQ magazine at my library. It is a member of the Electronic Library system they should be able to get it for me.I checked the Internet for old time female private eyes but couldn't find any other than the ones we talked about already.
Ginny, what is it about mystery stories that take place on the costs of England that seem to make THOSE mystery stories so much more fun to read? Perhaps Conan Doyle quickened our interest.
This web page lists old time mystery authors--found at the bottom of the page--that I had forgotten about or didn't know exsited.
Authors I Didn't Know About )

Bill H

GINNY, there's an interesting and well-written book on orchids, not a mystery but factual about orchid hunters and enthusiasts, called Orchid Fever by Eric Hansen. I enjoyed it although saddened by the life of one of the collectors in France. It gives wonderful insight into the age-long passion for orchids and the business that's developed from this passion.

BILL, there are some names on your list that are new to me. Hope I can find some of them at the local library. Chesterton was on the list and I think his first Father Brown mystery was published in 1910. I've put the Father Browns on my reread list.

Marvelle

Marvelle, I have Orchid Fever but have not gotten in it, for some reason, it does look good!

I am deep into the Marsh now and yesterday ordered 10 more of hers, I have determined to read all of them, she does not put a foot wrong and the writing is super, humorous, and atmospheric.

Bill I heard from your Sherlock Holmes first link, a Tony and he said he did not know the name of the theme song on the old braodcasts, it's driving me crazy, I hum it in my sleep!

haahah it may have been an original tune, but for some reason I keep thinking it's Mother MacREE or something.

That last site was interesting as it showed modern practitioners of the old art, I found that quite interesting KK Beck is a person whose books I have but that's a pseudonym and I can't recall who that really was!

ginny

We love puzzles. Give us an intellectual challenge and we rise to the bait. Crossword puzzles and bridge problems are staples of most newspapers, and countless other puzzle games are in evidence.

In the classical period, the puzzle was "all" and a great game of wits are played between author and reader. Because the Fair-Play rule required that the reader be given all the clues, authors tried to trick and mislead readers by misinterpreting, observing, even trumpeting clues, and by strewing red herrings along the way. Therefore, the resulting tales, intricate puzzles that they were, bore little relationship to real life.

Puzzle mysteries usually feature a series hero or heroine, and, in the essence, the whole novel is laid out to display the ingenuity of the "gimmick" used for the murder, which, in the best of them, also points indisputably to the villain's guilt. John Dickson Carr was famous for his "lock-door" puzzle mysteries. In his novel, "The Hollow Man," he has his hero, Dr. Gideon Fell, develop a lecture on the subject. In this now famous lecture, Dr. Fell reveals his choice of a prime example of this kind of mystery, Melville Davisoon Post's "The Dommdorf Mystery":

...and the long-range assassin is the sun. The sun strikes through the window of the locked room, makes a burning-glass of a bottle of Doomdorf's own raw white wood-aclcohol liquor on the table, and ignites through it the percussion cap of a gun hanging on the wall: so that the breast of the hated one is blown open as he lies in his bed.

Erle Stanley Gardner's Perry Mason made a consummate success of the puzzle. Besides Erle Stanley Gardner's Perry Mason, can you think of any other authors who write the "puzzle"?

Ellery Queen wrote 'puzzle' mysteries. His puzzler about the house that disappeared overnight is a classic. ...Babi

Ginny, that is awful when you can't recall the name of a tune. I have experienced that myself. I found another on line reader who didn't care for Fer-de-Lance either. Here is what he had to say
"I just today finished Fer-de-Lance, and I'd have to say that if it were the first Wolfe I'd read I don't know if I would have kept reading the series. As well-written as it is, and as indelible as the characters are, I found the plotline rather prosaic and simple…"
Apparently Fer-de-Lance was the first in the Nero Wolfe series. Here is what I found.
"So began the first recorded adventure of Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin: the case Archie called Fer-de-Lance. Wolfe was drawn into the case on Wednesday, June 7; he concluded it successfully just two weeks later, on Wednesday, June 21..."
.To read more click here
Fer-de-Lance
BaBi, would love to know the name of the EQ puzzler of the house that disappeared overnight.
Scrawler, I was never able to figure out John Dickson Carr's "locked door" mysteries but I had I did like reading the solution.

Bill H

Nero Wolfe mysteries are not puzzles which has always been a disappointment to me. Maybe that's why his plots aren't memorable and you can go back and reread a mystery as if it were totally new to you.

I prefer puzzle mysteries. I love the "Challenge to the Reader" that EQ put in his early mysteries about three-quarters of the way through, such as The Greek Coffin Mystery which I recently read. Here's EQ's challenge from which I'm omitting certain characters' names in case any of you haven't read this mystery yet (No Spoiler):

_________________________

CHALLENGE
To the Reader

It gives me more personal pleasure than I can say to inject at this point of the story of The Greek Coffin Mystery my customary challenge to the wits of the reader.

Pleasure, I should explain, because the problems of this mystery provided me with perhaps the knottiest tangle I have ever tried my hand at unsnarling. It is a joy - a very real joy to one who is constantly beset by the jeers of paying customers: "Is that a puzzler?" they demand. "Heavens, I solved it right off!" - it is a joy to say to such as these: "Now, my masters, you may solve to your hearts' content. You'll be properly fooled nevertheless!"

Perhaps I am oversanguine. At any rate the thing is done, and, ungentle reader, you now have in your possession all the facts pertinent to the only correct solution of the trinitarian problem: the identity of the individual who strangled _______________, shot _____________ to death, and stole ____________________.

I say with all good will and a fierce humility: Garde a vous, and a pox on headache!

--ELLERY QUEEN

_________________________

I relish this kind of challenge from a deliberately over-confident EQ who admits that the detective writer's true adversary is the reader and not the criminal. I like being thought of as 'ungentle' as if I too were a one-on-one danger to the detective. And EQ tells us that we have all the clues in which to solve the puzzle. And I have to love a writer who uses such words as 'trinitarian' in a mystery.

Marvelle

Marvelle--

Don't forget Patricia Wentworth's Miss Silver. I always just loved the description of her old-fashioned clothes, and the Stag at Bay picture she had. Quite good stories, actually.

BILL, the Ellery Queen mystery of the vanishing house was "The Lamp of God". While it is a classic, I must say I was able to solve it by simply applying logic.

Now, I've got to find EQ's "Greek Coffin Mystery"! How can I resist a challenge like that? ...Babi

I had the day off yesterday )
Jean, thank you for bringing Miss Silver to our attention. Do you remember any titles of her stories?
BaBi, Thanks for telling me about EQ's Lamp of God. I like to read mysteries when I don't have to task the senior brain too much. hahaha.
I must read Nero Wolfe's first appearance in Fer-de-Lance. I have read that this was his first mystery but most didn't care for it. Did the publisher ask the author to change her style of writing to make the stories more complex?

Bill H

Bill,

Remind me again. I've been busy today on some campaign work for Clark that I don't have energy to look up the Miss Silver things. I know I have some of her books packed away somewhere.

But it did feel good to be doing some 'real' editing for a change.

Maybe Stout's first book just needed the experience he brought to later books. It's the books in between 'learning the craft' and 'getting in a rut' that are the best of any author. ..Babi

That's a good point, BaBi. I'm going to the library tomorrow to pick up my ordered copy of Fer de Lance and I'll see what other Nero Wolfe's by Stout are available.

Marvelle

Never met a Rex Stout book that I did not like. Even the cookbook was fun, although the recipes did not work well.

I really didn't have anything AGAINST Fer de Lance, but the way it started out was not a way I wanted to go that particuliar day, the mood seemed to be leaning toward sort of a Sam Spade Private Eye type of thing, sent out for beer, etc., I didn't give it much of a chance, not yet, I was not into that particular mood at the moment. I really dislike Police Procedurals and Private Eyes, that Sam Spade type of thing is not what I want to read but that does not mean others wouldn't love it. Some of the new mysteries are cutsey pie things with lots of puns and again at first they were cute too, but lately it's so bad you groan your way thru each one. I'll give it another chance later on when I finish my current Marsh.

ginny

I just re-read Mickey Spillane's "I, The Jury" and the jury of one (me) is still out on it. I can't make up my mind if I like the book or not. I like the character Mike Hammer, but I'm not sure about the plot and some of the other characters. Perhaps it was the time period of the 1950s that encouraged such books. Would you consider this a classic?

I didn't read much of Mike Hammer; didn't like his books. The little I read of his work left a distinctly unpleasant impression and a bad taste in my mouth. The last book of his I picked up I looked at the last couple of pages (something I rarely do) and felt ill. I never picked up another. ...Babi

Scrawler, you asked if the Mike Hammer stories could be considered classics. Well, I think these novels could be called classics. I visited our on line Barnes and Noble to read what they had to say, and I found this about the above book.

"From Our Editors
Master detective Mike Hammer returns in three long-out-of-print mystery classics -- brought together for the first time in a single explosive volume.
"From the Publisher
In Mickey Spillane's classic private eye novels, the action exploded in a bone-crunching catharsis. Men and women didn't make love -- they collided. Tough brutes used their fists to drive home a message. Tougher broads used guile. And no one's morals were loftier than the gutter. No apologies. Little redemption. These novels rendered critics powerless, shocked intellectuals, inspired a new wave of pulp mayhem, and left the public hungry for more. Given their hot, fever-pitch prose and breathless pacing, Spillane's Mike Hammer novels quickly became one of the most successful series in publishing history -- an innovative, no-holds-barred, ultravisceral explosion of sex and violence that made Hammer a literary legend and Spillane one of the bestselling authors of all time. After fifty years, neither has lost his power to deliver a knockout punch. Find out for yourself in this first-time-ever omnibus featuring the first three Mike Hammer novels by the living master of the hard-boiled mystery."

They do make it sound like interesting reading. These novels caused quite a stir in the fifties--was it the fifties? I would like to add that I did enjoy the TV series of the Mike Hammer stories, but maybe they were plots just made for TV

Bill H

Stephanie, that cookbook of Rex Stout was it for real or just a parody for reading fun?

Bill H

No, a real cookbook, but full of recipes with some truly odd ingredients. A few worked nicely, but a lot of them were really too fussy.

Thank you, Stephanie.

Bill H

I'm with Stephanie about Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe Cookbook - it has 225 recipes but most are fussy; also not for the health or weight conscious with lots of butter, eggs and cream; some are truly strange (hedgehog omelet). It blurs fact and fiction. It has photos from the 30's and 40's of New York and various locales mentioned in the NW books as well as brownstones similar to the one owned by NW.

It's still available new in paperback, I believe, from B&N and other bookstores.

The foreword is written by the fictional Fritz Brenner, NW's personal chef. Each receipe is proceded by a quote from the story where it appeared. There's a chapter on meals that NW himself prepared; a chapter on the Kenewah Spa dinner; a selection of Rusterman's specialities.

Some of the recipes sound great like Archie Goodwin's breakfast favorite, griddle cakes, which he usually mentions in each book; Fritz Brenner's finest salad with Devil's Rain Dressing (from Poison a la Carte); Blueberry Grunt (from The Father Hunt).

"I went on by to the kitchen, and was served by Fritz and what do you think? Corn fritters with bacon and homemade blackberry jam, they were ambrosia." - Archie Goodwin

I have a few cookbooks derived from books or authors such as Cather's Kitchens by Roger Welsch and L. Welsch; Zane Grey Cookbook; Frieda's Fiestas (the Mexican artist Frieda Kahlo). My favorite such book is The Hemingway Cookbook by Craig Boreth with vintage photos of Hemingway and companions; food and drink quotes from his books; pertinent details of Hemingway's life; and chapters divided by locales and including ones on 'The Hemingway Wine Cellar' and 'The Hemingway Bar.'

"Wine is one of the most civilized things in the world and one of the natural things of the world that has been brought to the greatest perfection, and it offers a greater range for enjoyment and appreciation than, possibly, any other purely sensory thing which may be purchased." - Death in the Afternoon

There are a few Sherlock Holmes cookbooks too but I don't have any of those.

Marvelle

Marvelle, you have my watering from all those recipes you posted. Now I'll have to search for that Sherlock Holmes cook book. I wonder if Watson is the chef ) No, that would be Mrs. Hudson. Do you think Hudson the butler on Upstairs Downstairs was any relation to Sherlock's Mrs. Hudson?

Bill H

There are at least 5 Sherlock Holmes cookbooks:

The Sherlock Holmes Cookbook by Mrs. Hudson, Franny Craddock the compiler
Dining with Sherlock Holmes: A Baker Street Cookbook by Julia Carlson Rosenblatt & F. Sonnenschmidt
The Sherlock Holmes Victorian Cookbook: Favorite Recipes of the Great Detective & Dr. Watson, by William Bonnell
The Sherlock Holmes Cookbook by Charles Albert Mills
The Sherlock Holmes Cookbook: Or, Mrs. Hudson's Stoveside Companion by Farrell & Sean Wright

There's also The Sherlock Holmes Book of Wines & Spirits by Charles Mills

Here's an interesting site:

Biblio-Cookbooks

The following link disparages Sherlock Holmes' enthusiasts who think he's a living person when the (ignorant) reviewer says SH doesn't exist! but, aside from that sacrilege, it gives an extensive preview of one of the above mentioned cookbooks:

The Sherlock Holmes Victorian Cookbook

I don't know if these books are hard to find or expensive or out of print. Hopefully, at least one or two can still be found. I think the most popular titles are the Mrs Hudson/Craddock book and the Baker Street one.

Marvelle

Yes, it was the fifties which brings us to why at that particular time should these books become so popular? I don't remember a lot about the 50s, but what I do remember of the time period it seems like it was "squaresville". I often wonder if art, books, and music don't reflect what will hapen in the future. The 50s also gave us Elvis and later the Beatles. How much of an influence did the books, art, and music influence what happened in the 60s?

Marvelle, you are on top of things )
Scrawler, it may have been Elvis and the Beetles that influenced the Mike Hammer novels! Oh, you say what happened to the sixties. The sixties happened alright. We had the marches, the civil rights rebellions, the freedom of everything movement. Now I'm trying to remember that big rock concert bash of the sixties that took place in New York state. I believe it went on for two or three days.Yes, Mickey Spillane was a little ahead of the times. Do you think his novels would cause much of a stir now?

Bill H

The NY music bash of the 60s was at Woodstock, BILL. Hammer was very conservative 50s and he remained that way throughout the mystery novels. I never could finish one of Spillane's books.

I don't think Mike Hammer was ahead of his times but rather of his time. The times became more liberal and then turned in a circle towards more conservative. Now I think Hammer could be popular again.

Marvelle

Yes. WOODSTOCK. WOODSTOCK. I have been trying to think of that name for the past couple of hours. Thank you, Marvelle:o)

Bill H

About the Nero Wolfe cookbook--

I've never seen it, but have read comments here. Remember, Fritz was a chef par excellence so undoubtedly used ingredients that may not have been familiar to some of us. And ditto for complexity of the preparation.

Haven't been around much lately, too busy campaigning.

Although I liked the Mike Hammer character I didn't like the way he portrayed his other characters especially his female characters. Did guys really think of women the way they were portrayed in his novels? I don't mind having some guy calling me "dame or broad" but the physical abuse they portrayed turns my stomach. I doubt his novels would even make it in today's world.

Scrawler, some of Tom Clancy's novels would make Mickey Spillane's books seem quite tame. The Clancy novel I had in mind is "Without Remorse." I believe this to be one of his best. However, I realize it is not a classical mystery story:o)

Bill H

Our local library headquarters is having a book sale next week: limited to Romances, mysteries, and Westerns. Guess who'll be there pennies in hand on opening day.

Just an aside: I've made 18 cents so far this year picking up pennies and such in the parking lots. Had a real break yesterday, a nickel? But I just can't leave good money lying around.

Jean, the chnge you picked up was what I dropped: o)

Bill H

I picked up a dime the other day. When it comes to pennies, I have to consider whether it's worth the effort. <bg> ...Babi

Bill,

OK, come and get it.

I found this while I was looking at the list of authors I didn't know about. It seemed to good not to post here. I must add that Hume Nisbet was one of the authors I didn't know about. Hume Nisbet
"Hume Nisbet's "The Haunted Station" is a supernatural tale, not a detective story strictly speaking, although it certainly contains elements of crime. It is just too good to leave off my list. Between its Australian setting and authorship, and its fantastic elements, it serves as a reminder that not everything good happening in detective fiction falls into a single, narrow channel. The theme of murderous passion within a family circle, played out for maximum drama, does recall the works of Nisbet's contemporary Anna Katherine Green. So does the use of a vividly described architectural setting, one that seems to partner with the people in the story, as the protagonist of the tale. In Green's fiction, the setting often serves as the title of the tale: The Circular Study, The House of the Whispering Pines, "The Staircase at the Heart's Delight", and these unusual buildings co-star with the human characters as a focus of the tale. You also see this architectural emphasis in such Green-influenced work as Wilkins Freeman's "The Long Arm". This focus persists in such American writers as Mary Roberts Rinehart and Burton L. Stevenson"
Some of the books mentioned in the above paragraph sound really good. There's one or two I'd like to read, so I'm going to see if they are still in print.

Bill H

BILL, I researched a bit on Hume Nisbet (1849 -c1923) and found out he was born in Stirling Scotland. He visited Australia in 1865-72; 1886 and 1895. He was an artist and writer of travel books, novels, and poems. Here's a story from his collection The Haunted Station and other stories published 1894:

The Demon Spell

In case this works for you, here's a purportedly free audio site to download of

The Haunted Station

With my webtv unit I'm not able to check on the above link to see if the audio is actually free, but the story is well past the copyright period so it might well be so.

Hume Nisbet Biography

I'm interested in Nisbet's romance adventure book The Divers because of its tie-in to volcanoes. It sounds intriguing.

Anyone have information about or read Anna Katherine Green or Burton L. Stevenson?

Marvelle

Marvelle, thank you for the link to Demon Spell. That sounds like a nice little story. I'll read that this evening.
The Haunted Station is available in audio and you can listen to it free if you chose MP3 but you have to give them just about your life's history when you register. MP3 is checked marked as bearable quality. Other qualities continue up the scale from Tolerable to Very Good, however, you have to pay for the better quality and the price range is from three dollars to six dollars. I'm not sure if this is a one time charge or not. I didn't register because I don't like giving a web site that I'm not sure of my name, rank and serial number. ) And you know, the bearable free MP3 site will probably be just that.
Anna Katherine Green or Burton L. Stevenson. I don't know about them but they sound interesting. I'll see what I can find.

Bill H

BILL, I wasn't too sure about the a free audio site, it sounded too good to be true and apparently it was. Please do let us know what you find out about the authors Green and Stevenson.

I reread Rex Stout's Fer de Lance a few days ago and was waiting for my impressions to settle. I should say upfront that sometimes I like reading the Nero Wolfe mysteries and enjoy the eccentricities and sulks and other times I'm plain annoyed - so the pleasure of reading Stout depends on my mood. I must have been in the right mood because I liked the book overall.

This very first Nero Wolfe story begins in media res but the reader isn't lost. It's like being welcomed into a family who, despite their intricate past, accept you as if you've always been a family member. Wish there had been more of the orchids in this story. (Would like to read the one where the rooftop plantrooms are machine gunned, but I can't remember the title.)

While Nero Wolfe, Archie and gang were more or less presented in this first mystery as they were in the others, there were some differences.

-- I think there is less tension between NW and Archie than one normally finds.

-- Archie isn't as singularly an individual as he later becomes.

-- The story formula (action/plot) is pretty consistent with the later stories except in one important way which I won't mention here.

-- NW's solution to the crime (action? behavior? ethics?) is different from what I remember in later stories although my memory of past readings may be faulty.

I feel that Fer de Lance is a good introduction into the Nero Wolfe household. The writing is very good but missing that added snap to the dialogue that we see in the later Stout mysteries. Based on Fer de Lance I'd be inclined to read other Nero Wolfe stories -- assuming I knock on the door of the brownstone in the right frame of mind and that Archie lets me in.

Marvelle

You know, I believe I would like to read Fer de lance. As Marvelle pointed out it is a good introduction for the Nero Wolfe stories. Probably reading between the lines gives a good insight to the rest of the novels. And I must admit I do like the more simple mystery stories. You see, it doesn't tax my senior brain )
A little more on what I wrote about the free web site. You are able to download MP3 files for free, however, they give "bearable" for the MP3 file. But my Nero software is able to decode MP3 files and restore the full file for listening to either audio music or audio books. I'll post a link here to the website Marvelle and I are talking about. However, I am sometimes a little leery of these free sites because I just may be downloading spy ware. After I download anything from the Internet, I run both my Spybot and Ad Aware programs to rid my drive of any spy ware. Both Spybot and Ad Aware programs are free and come highly recommended by AOL and our own computer techs.
Audio Books For Free
Please be advised that I don't know whether or not this web site is free of spy ware.

Bill H

Marvelle, I found only one book by Burton Stevenson: "The Mystery of the Boule Cabinet. It is an out of print book with a publishing date of 1912. That is the earliest date I could find. B&N shows 3 used copies available.I haven't a clue as to what Boule means.
Alan Green wrote "What a Body"--1949. But I couldn't find anything at Barnes and Noble about it's availability.

Bill H

Here you go--

Andre C. Boule (French 1642 – 1732); elaborate inlay work distinguished by intricate often lacy, brass designs. Can be combined with various rare woods, ivory, and tortoise shell to form complex designs. www.art-conservation.org/GLOSS_furn_dec.htm

Since it's the Mystery of the Boule Cabinet, I'm assuming it's referring to furniture. Otherwise, boule is also a loaf of bread, so it could be a bread cabinet. You'd have to read it to get the context.

Jean, than you for the explanation. Perhaps the Boule loaf is kept in the Boule Cabnet )

Folks, would you pleae tell me your favorite Agatha Christie, Dorothy L. Sayers and Ellery Queen Novels. I can keep these in mind for future reference and book discussions.<p.Bill H

Christie: The Murder of Roger Ackroyd

If you add Josephine Tey to the list: Daughter of Time

Sayers: Nine Tailors

Jean, thanks for your selections. I'm hoping others will list their favorites.
To see a list of all the Agatha Christie novels visit here.
Agatha Christie
When I visited that web site I saw that Christie and Earl Stanley Gardner got together on these two novels: "The Case of the Worried Waitress and "The Clocks." Those stories should make for interesting reading.
I can't remember the name of the author who wrote "An English Murder"

Bill H

I would vote for any of these:

Dorothy Sayers:

"Unnatural Death"

Agatha Christie:

"And Then There Were None"

"Murder on the Orient Express"

"A Murder is Announced"

"The Body in the Library"

"The ABC Murders"

"The Thirteen Problems"

"The Case of the Worried Waitress"

"The Clocks"

Ellery Queen:

"The Hollywood Murders"

"The Roman Hat Mystery"

"The French Powder Mystery"

"The Spanish Cape Mystery"

"The Siamese Twin Mystery"

Whatever your decision - count me in!

Anne

There is no way I can pick out a favorite Christie book. I'm not really a Sayers fan, and I've only read one Ellery Queen story in the past umpteen years. I'll happily read or re-read any of them you want to discuss, tho. ...Babi

I defer to previous mentioned titles by Dorothy Sayers and Agatha Christie. I'll read whatever is selected.

ELLERY QUEEN: I do have favorites for EQ but a discussion would depend on what's available for each of us in libraries or used backs. Not much currently in print.

My choices in order of preference:

#1 -- The Greek Coffin Mystery (1932); I've discussed before; has 4 solutions

#2 -- The Dutch Shoe Mystery (1931) - rigor mortis has set in when Abigal Doone is wheeled into the operating room of the Dutch Memorial Hospital. It is clearly a case of preoperative strangulation with a picture hanger by a killer who couldn't wait. Now it's up to EQ - and you - to solve the murder. Of all the EQs this is one of the most carefully constructed; the clues lead simply and inevitably to the conclusion, and no mystery writer has ever played more fairly.

#3 -- The French Powder Mystery (1930) - French's department store was famous for the merchandise it offered its elite clientele. But no one in the store could be proud of the latest window-display; the blood-stained corpse of the owner's wife. EQ soon discovered that this place of commerce was a viper's nest of fear, jealousy, suspicion and hatred. And baffling him at every turn was a mastermind who was out to turn the store into a bargain basement of murder. Better then its predecessor [The Roman Hat Mystery] the logic follows more clearly and the plot is even more deliciously twisted. EQ himself is still rather stuck-up and more than a bit conceited.

These are my three suggestions for EQ. The above comments are from a website on EQ, in the section titled 'Q.B.I.' (or Queen's Bureau of Investigation) which lists the mysteries in chronological order. The section on the website called 'Floor plan' is also interesting as are the other sections:

Queen's Website on Deduction

Hollywood Murders is an omnibus of novels by EQ: The Devil to Pay; Four of Hearts; The Origin of Evil. Any preference there?

Can anyone recommend classic mystery novels - besides Nero Wolfe and the omnibus The New York Murders by EQ - which are set in New York? I just read a Cornell Woolrich short story which had the Statue of Liberty as the site for a murder and it's triggered a desire in me for more of the same.

Marvelle

No wonder I haven't read more EQ. I hadn't realized many of his stories are older than I am!

What did we decide on as a cutoff date for 'classic' mysteries? Lawrence Block and James Patterson wrote some mysteries with New York settings, but they are more recent. ..Babi

Marvelle, that is a FANTASTIC web site of Ellery Queen It gives the visitor so much information about EQ. I loved those graphics especially the chess pieces at the top of one of the pages. . I have been a chess player for more years than I care to remember.
Folks, when you visit the site Marvelle gave us please click on "Q E D" and then scroll down and click on "Ellery Queen Radio Lover. You will then be taken to a list of EQ audio stories that you can listen to. I bookmarked that web site and .I'll be listening to one of them tonight!! That site would make for a discussion by itself.
BaBi, I don't think we ever did set a cut off date for Classical Mysteries. I don't think we should because we can find many classics that go way back in time. Why limit ourselves.

Bill H

BILL, glad you liked the site on EQ. I can spend hours in there, scrolling through the different pages. Can you suggest any classic mysteries with a chess background?

Thanks, BABI, for reminding me of Robert Block. I like his "The Burglar Who..." series such as the one with Kipling in the title. Hope you have a public library with some Ellery Queen books. I think EQ mysteries are a treat. I prefer the early ones but also like seeing how EQ matures and changes as he ages.

The "Mr. and Mrs. North" books of Frances and Richard Lockridge, written in the 1940s-1960s, are frequently set in New York: in a penthouse, Broadway theatre, publishing house, discussion club, etc. Not quite as intriguing as a murder in the Statue of Liberty but still.... forgot I have about a dozen of the North books and I haven't re-read them in quite a while. Will need to dig them out. Also have the non-North book Quest of the Bogeyman (1964) which I've never read - waiting for an appropriate time and this may be it even though the mystery occurs in summer.

From the inside dj blurb of Quest: "This story of flight and pursuit and breathtaking escape ranges from a ratty Greenwich Village rooming house to the Sandersons' very much more elegant apartment uptown. The eminently satisfactory conclusion comes in an old Connecticut country house - the hero on this occasion being a black and white tomcat named Toby, who distinguishes himself - even among the distinguished gallery of Lockridge cats - by giving the police an indispensable assist at the last minute."

The dj of Quest is wonderful - black background with huge yellow cat's eyes and a much smaller outline of a man and woman.

Richard Lockridge was a cat person (Siamese) and the books generally have cats strolling through some of the scenes. Anyone interested could check out The Judge is Reversed - 'A North story with even more about cats than usual must surely be pure bliss to many readers besides me.' - New York Times Book Review; and Murder Is Suggested - "In addition to fascinating data on hypnosis, the novel features several feline actors . . . and an unusually well-characterized kller . . ." - New York Times Book Review

I like the bantering, loving, equal relationship of the Norths, both become involved in solving murders, and the cats are not too cutesy-pie. A nicely written series.

Marvelle

I remember the Norths, and always enjoyed them. There were some movies made of those stories, too, as I recall. Do not remember who played in them. I always thought the Norths were a wee notch above Christie's Tommy and Tuppence, tho' I enjoyed them, too. ..Babi

BaBi, William Powel and Myrna Loy played Nick and Nora Charles in the Thin Man movies. However Peter Lawford and Phyllis Kirk played those roles in a 1957 TV series of the Thin Man.
Marvelle, here is a web site I found of chess mysteries.
Chess Mysteries of Sherlock Holmes
Click "Back cover"--at the bottom-- to read a little about these mysteries.

Bill H

BILL, that's an interesting book. I'll see if the public library has a copy. I have to admit I don't play chess although I've wanted to learn. I admire anyone who can play the game. There's a collection of chess stories that I've read, not mysteries, called The 64-Square Looking Glass: The Great Game of Chess in World Literature edited by Hochberg. The authors in the anthology include Ian Fleming,Poul Anderson, Vladimir Nabokov, Lord Dunsany, Stefan Zweig, Lewis Carroll, Jorge Borges, and more. I haven't run across any chess mysteries and hope I can find the one on Holmes. That'd have to be a good one.

I love the Thin Man movies which had a fun partnership between Myrna Loy and William Powell. The Norths only had one movie that I could find, "Mr. and Mrs. North" released in 1941, starring Gracie Allen as Pam North and William Post Jr. as Jerry North. The below link says that George Burns starred in the movie but in this they are incorrect. He isn't listed in the cast credits, not anywhere. The rest of the information is good.

Pam and Jerry North

Below is a nice link from "Thrilling Days of Yesteryear." BILL may have posted this earlier but, just in case, here it is (scroll down the link for the article):

The Norths

There was a radio show which the links say emphasized the Norths relationship rather than the mystery. I saw and enjoyed the 'Mr. and Mrs. North' television series starring Richard Denning and Barbara Britton. It's out in video too.

Marvelle

I would never discourage anyone from learning how to play chess, but it takes years of study to play the game WELL. I read in one of my chess magazines that Humphrey Bogart played chess. One of the Grand Masters sat down to play Bogart a game of chess, however Bogie had the chess board placed the wrong way. There is an old chess axiom saying "White ( lower white corner square) to right and queen to color." Humphrey had the colors wrong, but the Grand Master said. Who am I to point out Bogart's mistakes." So they played the way Bogie had the board set up.
Marvelle, "The Norths" link you gave us brought back a lot of memories. Thank you.

Bill H

Tomorrow, February 16th I begin my two week stint in "Curious Minds." It is a very timely subject and I'm sure you folks will enjoy participating in the discussion. Hope to see you there but I promise that I will look in here every day.

Bill H

Thanks, Marvelle. I can't imagine Gracie Allen as Pam North! I think I must have been remembering the TV series; the name Barbara Britton sounds much more familiar.

Is anyone else having trouble lately with ads popping up from Explorer Internet? I thought Explorer was a reputable access network; now lately I have been inundated with nuisance ads, some of which gave me no way to delete. I can't even get in touch with anyone to complain about it! ...Babi

BaBi, try SeniorNet's Computer Quesions sections. I believe they can help you. Just tell them what you have been experiencing.

Bill H

I asked one computer forum, but got no answer. I may have been in the wrong slot. I'll check again. Thanks.

BaBi, in the Computer Questions and Answers folder, I they were giving information about those annoying pop up ads. Post your question again, but this time ask it of one of the techs by name. I usually ask Dave, Rammel or JTM. When they see their name they always respond.

Bill H

Here is a link to the new Curious Minds discussion.

The Road to the Whitehouse
In that discussion you can voice your opinion about what is taking place today.

Bill H

It was with a very heavy heart that I learned today of the death of our Lorrie. I cannot put into words the sorrow I feel of her passing.
Goodbye, Lorrie. We will miss you.

Bill H

Bill,

The rose is a lovely touch. I just had a notice from her niece this morning. I am saddened to lose such a good friend. She and I had e-mailed and I grew very fond of her.

I, too, am saddened by the news about Lorrie. Since I only joined SN less than a year ago, I did not get a chance to know her very well. But I can see she had many good friends here at SN, and she was much loved.
________________________________________________________________________

I am reading a mystery book now that is too new to be considered a classic, but I want to recommend it to all the mystery lovers here. "The #1 Ladies Detective Agency" is a wonderful story which tells not only about the cases of this most unusual detective, but also describes a whole way of life in a part of Africa that most of us know very little about.

Yes, Jean, I know you will miss Lorrie. Did you know that Lorrie was the person that urged me to become a DL? It was with her help and guidance that I prevailed. My first discussion as a participant on SN was in Lorrie's "Books into Movies." She was the DL in that very favorite discussion and we had so much fun.
Horselover, thank you for the heads up on this book Here is a Barnes and Noble review.
"The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency"
The Barnes & Noble Review
"The pantheon of brilliant detectives with great names -- Sherlock Holmes, Nero Wolfe, Sam Spade -- has a new member: Precious Ramotswe. As Botswana’s only female private investigator, Precious finds herself in some exotic situations -- flirting with wayward husbands in the Go Go Handsome Man’s Bar one minute, confronting witch doctors about missing boys the next. But cases and solutions here are only half the fun. Author Alexander McCall Smith, the leading authority on Botswana’s constitutional law, writes with such beautiful simplicity, he may actually give lawyers a good name. His slice of Africa is vividly rendered with an appropriately dry wit and an almost Dickensian array of characters, from the upstanding mechanic Mr. J.L.B. Matekoni to Precious’s humble assistant, Mna Makutsi, to an assortment of cocky con men and frauds. Precious, meanwhile, is one of the most original private detectives ever put to page: a bright, fallible woman who gets duped romantically and on the job but bursts with compassion for everything in her path -- especially Africa. Fans of transportive, literary mysteries have a reason to ululate. Loudly. Seth Kaufman"
Sounds like a good one!

Bill H

Bill, I hadn't seen that, or any review, before; I chose the book on a friend's recommendation. But from what I have read thus far, that review you posted is absolutely accurate. The story of Precious, her family, her childhood and how she came to be a detective, and her unusual cases, is just wonderful. Maybe this book could be a candidate for a separate discussion with you as DL.

I've read positive comments about #1 Detective from various SN posters, particularly in "Mystery Corner" and don't know if they're planning a discussion or not.

Did we as a group define the qualities of a classic mystery? What do you think - is #1 Detective a classic mystery?

Marvelle

Marvelle-

Which of Joyce's books is that quote from? When I lived on Long Island, some members of our book club formed a sub-group who got together once a week to read Ulysses aloud. We had such fun. And I believe that reading it aloud is the best way to 'read' it.

I read the "No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency" and really enjoyed it.

FlaJean, isn't there a sequel or prequel to #1 Detective? I haven't read that yet but am on the waiting list at my local library.

JEANLOCK, the quote is from Portrait..., Chapter 4, as Stephen tires of waiting for his father (pacing between a pub and chapel) and finally walks seaward, musing on his attraction to words and phrasing -

"The phrase and the day and the scene harmonized in a chord. Words. Was it their colours? He allowed them to glow and fade, hue after hue: sunrise gold, the russet and green of apple orchards, azure of waves, the grey-fringed fleece of clouds. No, it was not their colours: it was the poise and balance of the period itself. Did he then love the rhythmic rise and fall of words better than their association of legend and colour? Or was it that, being weak of sight as he was shy of mind, he drew less pleasure from the reflection of the glowing sensibile world through the prism of a language many-coloured and richly storied than from the contemplation of an inner world of individual emotions mirrored perfectly in a lucid supple periodic prose?"

I quoted a long part of the passage because I don't know what edition you might have of Portrait.... In The Portable James Joyce the quote is found on page 428, near the top.

All this reflection on 'words' was triggered by concerns of Stephen, his family, and the Church as to what he should do with his life; what was his calling. At this point in the narrative he is still unsure of his future.

Marvelle

marvelle

You've put your finger on just why it's so effective to read Ulysses aloud. The rhythm. And by reading aloud, and thus more slowly, we were able to perceive just where he had parodied aspects of the culture. Don't own a Joyce, but I'm long overdue for a visit to the used-book store. Like Joyce, I love words.

Last weekend I helped my daughter edit a paper for one of her classes. She used to work for me, and I did manage to teach her some of the basics of writing. This time, she ASKED me to help, and was grateful for the assistance. I re-iterated my oft-spoken admonition to read the paper aloud. Only in that way can one perceive the rhythm of a sentence. I love words, and writing. But right now, seniornet is my sole outlet. Save for letters to my government reps.

Marvelle, There are two other books to my knowledge: "Tears of the Giraffe: More from the No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency" and "Morality for Beautiful Girls: More from the NO. 1, etc.". McCall Smith also had a hard cover book published in Apr. 2003 entitled "The Kalahari Typing School for Men". That sounds like it might be interesting. FlaJean

"The No. 1...." is so wonderful, I find it hard to put it down when I have something else to do. The quirky characters are extremely well drawn, and the wisdom that Precious accumulates on her journey through life is worth heeding. I am already dreading having it end, and am so glad that there is a sequel as well as other books by McCall Smith. Thanks to FlaJean for giving us the titles to look for.

"hmmm…I can't find anyone. Where did everybody go…."

Bill H

THE MUMMY RETURNS... AND SO SHALL THE REST OF US!

I bought "The Kalahari Typing School for Men" and "Tears of the Giraffe;" can't wait to read more about Precious.

My library holds arrived and I read the series #1 Detective and other books by the same author. Couldn't get into them.

Just starting John Dickson Carr's The Case of the Constant Suicides, master of locked room mysteries. From the dust jacket: "[the case] involves a Highland ghost, a powerful drink called 'the Doom of the Campbells,' and the death by falling? or being pushed? from a sixty-foot tower .... Only Dr. Gideon Fell could come up with the answer."

Marvelle

Sorry to say I bought #1 detective and can't get passed the third chapter. I expected it to be a mystery and so far it isn't. It's reading like a auto-biography.

And I really enjoyed the three I have read from that series! They aren't very suspenseful and the action is slow paced, but the characters seem deceptively simple. Some of the comments made in the book are very thoughtful and appropriate for the world in general.

Basically a pleasant change from the gritty mysteries I usually read.

N

Everyone has different tastes in books (which is a good thing for authors). I have read all the "No. 1 Ladies Detective" books and loved them. It was so interesting to see a different perspective on life, however, I agree they aren't the usual mystery books. I don't believe they can be considered classics as they aren't old enough and perhaps traditional enough? I'm still an avid Agatha Christie and Dorothy Sayers fan and want to re-read some Sayers books soon.

Yes, the #1 Detective books, which focus on quirky characters and their lives, aren't classical mysteries which focus on the mystery puzzle. Need I say that classical = non-classical mysteries doesn't mean good = bad mysteries? They're just different types. I genrally prefer the classical type of mystery when I'm looking for something not deep and intense - as deep as works by great authors like Shakespeare writing on the human condition - but with good writing and a challenging puzzle to solve. I think BILL brought up that age itsef doesn't define a classical mystery but we're working with a loose definition at best.

FlaJean, Bill said tha he's in the process of selection a mystery each by Christie, Sayers, and Ellery Queen for discussion. So keep your eyes peeled. Did you list, or can you list, your favorite Christie and Sayers? I've read b both (of course, how could a mystery lover not read them?) but wouldn't know what titles would make a good discussion.

I'm still at the beginning of John Dickson Carr's The Case of the Constant Suicides. It's started out great. It's set duing the early days of WWII when air raids are infrequent over Britain and usually consists of one enemy airplane. An American professor in Britain boards a train, an air raid siren sounds, and all the lights on the train are shut off. Porters conduct passengers to their cabins, using a flashlight on the door to confirm the compartment number. There has to be a mixup somewhere.... so far so good.

Marvelle

Happy Leap Year 2004!

I read "Rebecca" for the second time and enjoyed it much more than the first time because in between readings I saw the black and white movie with Joan Fontaine and Laurence Olivier. As I read along, I could visualize and "hear" the characters in the book as they went through the pages. This visualization gave more meaning to the characters.especialy Judith Anderson as Mrs. Danvers. I remember her more than the rest.
A 1962 TV movie of this novel was also made staring Nina Foch as Mrs. Danvers, Joan Hacket as the Second Mrs. de Winters and James Mason as Maxim de Winters. I didn't know that. Here's a link to it.

Rebecca
Have any of you enjoyed a mystery more after having watched the movie.

Bill H

It depends on the book and the movie whether it is better in book form or movie form. In the case of "Rebecca" I think the actors had a lot to do with it. A movie of course is more visual - so if you have a book that gives you more of a wide-eyed camera angle say like "Gone With the Wind" than I think the movie will be better, but if the book goes indepth about the characters than I would like the book more than the movie. I generally like to read more than watch movies.

Scrawler, "Gone With the Wind" was another book I enjoyed much more the second time around after seeing the movie. However, I must agree that some movies barely scratch the surface of the novel. What a shame. This happens quite often in the Stephen King books. For example I really enjoyed King's "It" but the TV movie of it was a real bummer.

Bill H

For many years, we used to have a general discussion about "Books into Movies" where this was discussed in detail.

Bill H

I have tried to gather together most of the old time mystery stories several of you suggested for a book discussion. Perhaps you could vote or select one or two of these for our discussion. For now, I would appreciate you selecting a short story because I have to get ready for a PBS discussion. Oh, we did do "The Nine Taylors."

Dorothy Sayers: "Unnatural Death" Agatha Christie: "And Then There Were None" "Murder on the Orient Express" "A Murder is Announced" "The Body in the Library" "The ABC Murders" "The Thirteen Problems" "The Case of the Worried Waitress" "The Clocks" Ellery Queen: "The Hollywood Murders" "The Roman Hat Mystery" "The French Powder Mystery" "The Spanish Cape Mystery" "The Siamese Twin Mystery

Christie: The Murder of Roger Ackroyd If you add Josephine Tey to the list: Daughter of Time Sayers: Nine Tailors

Bill H

And here are a few more:
#1 -- The Greek Coffin Mystery (1932); I've discussed before; has 4 solutions
#2 -- The Dutch Shoe Mystery (1931) - rigor mortis has set in when Abigal Doone is wheeled into the operating room of the Dutch Memorial Hospital. It is clearly a case of preoperative strangulation with a picture hanger by a killer who couldn't wait. Now it's up to EQ - and you - to solve the murder. Of all the EQs this is one of the most carefully constructed; the clues lead simply and inevitably to the conclusion, and no mystery writer has ever played more fairly.
#3 -- The French Powder Mystery (1930) - French's department store was famous for the merchandise it offered its elite clientele. But no one in the store could be proud of the latest window-display; the blood-stained corpse of the owner's wife. EQ soon discovered that this place of commerce was a viper's nest of fear, jealousy, suspicion and hatred. And baffling him at every turn was a mastermind who was out to turn the store into a bargain basement of murder. Better then its predecessor [The Roman Hat Mystery] the logic follows more clearly and the plot is even more deliciously twisted. EQ himself is still rather stuck-up and more than a bit conceited.
The Norths
Christie's Tommy and Tuppence

Bill H

I'd like to read Christie's "The Case of the Worried Waitress", simply because I don't think I ever have. (How did I miss a Christie?) Tey's book, "The Daughter of Time" and EQ's "Dutch Shoe Mystery" sound good, too. ...Babi

Where could I find a copy of the Christie story "The Case of the Worried Waitress" - what is the title of the story collection?

EQ's "The Dutch Shoe Mystery" is a novel but a short one (less than 200 pages) and I can get a copy of that one.

The Lockridge's (Frances and Richard) Mr. and Mrs. North mysteries are frequently found in public libraries. There is an omnibus, titled "Murder! Murder!! Murder!!!" of the first three novels in the North series - "The Norths Meet Murder," "Murder Out of Turn," and "A Pinch of Poison." (But really, any North story we discuss is fine by me.)

The Norths live in NYC where Jerry North is a book publisher and Pam North is a homemaker, in the pre-women's liberation tradition of the 40's. There are many stories by the Lockridges with Mr. and Mrs. North. It just depends on availability for everyone.

Marvelle

"Murder on the Orient Express was a wonderful movie from the book. There were so many great stars in it, and they were all terrific--Albert Finney as Hercule Poirot, Lauren Bacall, Ingrid Bergman as the retarded Greta Ohlsson, Jacqueline Bisset, Martin Balsam, Sean Connery as Colonel Arbuthnot, John Gielgud, Wendy Hiller, Anthony Perkins, and so many others.

Another good movie from a classical thriller was "Jane Eyre" with Orson Welles and Joan Fontaine.

All your choices for discussion are good ones. I remember reading most of them, but can't remember offhand what some of them were about so wouldn't mind reading them again.

Horselover, Murder on the Orient Express was a good movie. I saw it in the movies when it first played. But until you just mentioned I didn't realize there were so many famous actors and actress in the movie. It is still making the rounds on TV. I can't explain why I never cared for Orson Wells. Do any of you share this feeling about Wells?

Bill H

When the Norths were mentioned I got curious as to all who played that team. Above is one team that played the parts. Do you know who they are?

Bill H

The guys face is familiar, but I don't know the name. I'm going to look it up, but I won't tell in case someone else wants to guess. ..Babi

Dorthy Sayers: "Unnatural Death"

Agatha Christie: Murder on the Orient Express

Ellery Queen: The French Powder Mystery

I have to agree with you Bill, I haven't seen any adaptation of Steven King TV movies that compare favorably to the books. Although I haven't liked many of his latest novels either. I did read "On Writing" which was an excellent tool for how to write as well as discussing his life and how he took several actual experiences and put them in his books. I think its just too dificult to do a story justice inbetween commercials. On the other hand some movies do help the audience to picture the characters of the book as well as the setting and mood. Horselover mentioned "Jane Eyre" with Orson Welles and Joan Fontaine. Now that movie followed the book very closed and besides the actors brought their own dynamics to the screen which brought the characters to life.

Antique mysteries??????

In case you are still curious as to the names of the actors in the graphic they are: Barbara Britton and Richard Denning (Lucille Ball’s better-half on My Favorite Husband)

Bill H

Bill,

Of course. The minute you gave the names I remembered. I knew it was Barbara somebody, but couldn't think of his name at all.

Jean, I would never of thought of Richard Denning's name either. I only found two movies the played in: An Affair to Remember, 1957 and Mary Queen of Scots, 1971, however, I don't think he was the top banana in either of them.

Bill H

Scrawler, it is hard to follow a mystery on TV with all the commercials, but I tape those and fast forward through the commercials and it isn't so bad.

Bill H

No, Denning was one of the 2nd string. Never got the girl. Like Jack Carson.

Bill, I thought Orson Welles was good when he was younger--in movies like "Jane Eyre" and "The Third Man." But in his later years, he became so fat, he could only appear on talk shows where he did not have to move around much.

I bought 2 sets of video mysteries from a garage sale at the ridiculously low price of $7 total. Both boxed sets were manufactured and distributed by Madacy Music Group. They're in great condition, apparently only viewed once, if that.

The Alfred Hitchock set contains 10 Hitchcock movies from the 30's (1930-37) and I think all were made before he left England. There's "Sabotage" with Sylvia Sidney, Oscar Homolka and John Loder, based on Joseph Conrad's The Secret Agent. Another movie stars John Gielgud, Madeleine Carroll, Robert Young, Peter Lorre called "Secret Agent" (not related to Conrad's novel) with a wonder of train scenes and a chase through a Swiss chocolate factory. Other movies in this set "The Thirty-Nine Steps" - Robert Donat, Madeleine Carroll, Peggy Ashcroft; "The Lady Vanishes" - Margaret Lockwood, Michael Redgrave, Dame May Whitty, Paul Lukas, Cecil Parker. Other titles: Juno and the Paycock; Number 17; The Man Who Knew Too Much; Young and Innocent; Rich and Strange; Murder.

The other set of 10 movies is called "Mystery Suspense: Hollywood Classics", with films by various directors/producers (none by Alfred Hitchcock) - six films from 1930 through the 40's; two from the 50's; and two from 1963. There's: Cast a Dark Shadow; A Shriek in the Night; Dressed to Kill (the last Rathbone/Bruce 'Sherlock Holmes'); Night Train to Munich; Diaboique; D.O.A.; The Night Has Eyes; The Terror (1963); The Trial (1963, directed by Orson Welles, retelling the Kafka story with apt disturbing of the nerves); The Red House.

I just finished viewing the Red House (1947) and it had a marvellously creepy Edward G. Robinson. Also starring Judith Anderson, Ron Mc Callister, Allene Roberts, Julie London, Rory Calhoun.

I guess besides loving classical mysteries, I love classical movies. B&W are best anyway for mysteries with the play of light and dark and everything so toned by age that it becomes timeless. Haven't watched all the movies of these two sets, sort of drawing out the pleasure by viewing a film or two a week.

Marvelle

P.S. I like to change my heading quote every once in a while (recently discovered- after all this time! - that the quote will then be changed on all previous messages). Wanted to ask if the quote I'm now using is OK or could it be offensive to some?

Marvelle

Marvelle, you lucky soul! I have got to make a habit of getting to more garage sales. Most of the ones I drive past seem to consist of odd pieces of glassware, gimcracks and old clothes! ..Babi

marvelle--

The James Joyce quote is great! The book IS funny. And that was part of what made it such a joy to read out loud.

I just wish the other 3 members of our little group were still alive to enjoy it with me.

Folks, I should've got back to you before this, but I have been a little busy this past week.
I never cared for Orson Wells even when he was young. I did see "Jane Eyre" and thought it quite good, but Wells came across to me as always being a little stiff. I suppose it was his style.
Marvelle, you made a grand haul when you got those videos I remember seeing a lot of them. A couple of nights ago TCM showed several of Sherlock Holmes movies. Some of them with actors I never heard of--British made. There was a Hound of the Baskervilles with Peter Cushing that was quite good but I suppose I'm partial to Rathbone and Brett they were both the Sherlock type--I still like Nigel Bruce as Watson. . They even had a black and white of "The Lady in Green" but it was on quite late and I had an early appointment the next day, so I didn't stay up to watch it.
Robert Donat. I suppose I will always remember him best in the role he played in "Goodbye, Mr.Chips" along with Greer Garson

Bill H

And STILL by far the best version of that story.

Jean, and that was another movie that made the book more enjoyable.<p.Bill H

I took a quick peek again at "Secret Agent," the 1930s movie that starred John Gielgud. I had to verify what my eyes thought they saw, that he played the young romantic leading man. Must say Gielgud wasn't believable in his dashing war-hero-turned-spy part. How glorious he became in his later roles!

Some movies do justice to the novel that inspired them; many don't but "Mr. Chips" was one of the finer adaptions.

Glad the quote I'm using is alright. Thanks everyone.

Marvelle

A couple of nights ago, in the wee hours of the morning, I watched a very early Basil Rathbone Sherlock mystery. I'm not sure of the title it may have been the lady in green but I'm not sure. The point: the movie was so washed out the actors looked pure white I just couldn't watch it. I guess film deterioration set in.

Bill H

Bill, I liked that version of "Goodbye Mr. Chips" and I also like the musical version with Peter O'Toole.

Did you know there is s new Inspector Dalgleish novel by P.D. James?

BILL, I hope someone restores that film, but doesn't sabotage it with colorization. I do love old movies. HORSELOVER, thanks for the heads up. I'll see if our library has the newest P.D. James.

I just watched another classical mystery movie - Alfred Hitchcock's 1938 "The Lady Vanishes."

The mystery was easy to solve but, to be fair, perhaps in 1938 certain plots weren't commonly used. Loved the phony, artistic sets especially the toy train used to depict real trains. It put me more into the mood of the film then if the train and set were real and not miniatures.

There were censors in those days but it's amazing how much Hitchcock got away with in this film. I hadn't seen "The Lady Vanishes" in a long time (since I was a youngster) and today I saw many subtle references that passed over me as a girl (and obviously got past the censors). Fine film even if the mystery wasn't so mysterious.

Marvelle

Bill,

Sometimes adjusting the picture controls on your TV helps. I have to do it quite often as there often seems to be a good deal of variation among the channels.

marvelle--

If I bump into James Joyce in the great hereafter I'll have to remember to tell him how funny I thought the book.

Just started a new (to me) Reginald Hill (Dalziel & Pascoe) book last night. "Death's Jest Book". Hill is really a joy to read. I just recently received my batch of 'almost free' books from the Mystery Guild and have new ones by P.D. James, Anne Perry, Elizabeth George, and the Da Vinci Code which manages to stay at the top of the bestseller list.

JEAN, looks like you've got your reading cut out for you; I wish you many lovely hours of reading.

I read Agatha Christie's novel The Big Four for the sole reason that it had something to do with chess and I thought about BILL. However, only one chapter dealt with chess and then indirectly. I think the best fictional writing with that as a background is by Vladimir Nabokov - that and butterflies - but he isn't a mystery writer.

Marvelle

Marvelle, I don't think the old time censors minded subtle stuff. It was the blatant stuff that got chopped. Some of the old-timers would have heart attacks if they were alive to see what is permissible today. ...Babi

Horselover, No, I didn't know that P.D. James had a new Adam Dalglesish novel. Do you think PBS will pick it up?
Jean, I thought about adjusting the brightness,, contrast control on my TV but I just didn't feel like it )
Marvelle, ahh, yes, chess. I played some internet chess the other day and won some games a lost some, but that's chess.
BaBi, I wonder what the old timers would've thought about the Super Bowel half-time show.

Bill H

Didn't see that, Bill, and from all the flak that went up I'm glad I didn't. Sounds like they should have been booed out of the stadium. I would like to know who was responsible for that high point in poor taste, so I could avoid anything they do in future. ...Babi

BaBi, I beieve Miss Jackson (I think that's her name) took full responsibility for her actions. The NFL and CBS were apologizing to everybody. It may have been MTV that put on the show, but they claim that wasn't supposed to be part of it.

Bill H

I notice everybody avoids being specific about what "that" was. Just as well; this is a polite forum. <bg> ...Babi

Bill, Was that a typo or a deliberate play on words??? Either way, I love it!

Yes, I think eventually we will see a new PBS series with Adam Dalgliesh. I hope they get the same actor to play the part.

Horselover, I must confess I have no idea what you mean?????

Bill H

Bill, From your post #753: "the Super Bowel half-time show."

When I get down to it on the pile of newspapers, I'll post a URL to a wonderful review by Jonathan Yardley of 'Rebecca', yes THAT Rebecca.

Horselover, that was just plain misspelling!!!!
Jean I would like to read that review. Rebecca is one of my all time favorites.

Bill H

Bill,

OK, coming right up. Or as right up as I can manage given the snail's pace of accessing and downloading.

OK, Bill, here it is. Quite interesting. He classifies it more as a gothic novel than a mystery. But I do like most of his essays. And he's always coming up with something such as Rebecca which has long been a favorite. Would sure like to meet him and talk books.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61821-2004Mar15.html

Jean, thanks much for that link. I bookmarked it for future use. That essay would make a fine discussion in itself. Other than the ghost of Rebecca, would you say Dame Judith Anderson was the dominant figure in both the novel and the screen play? When I think of "Rebecca," Judith Anderson springs to mind immediately. The other dominant entity was the mansion Manderly.
I wish du Maurier would've written a squeal to the story telling us the 2nd Mrs. de Winters (she of no first name) and Maxim came into a fortune, thereby rebuilding Manderly to the exact scale and introducing another story plot. What do you think, folks? Perhaps it couldn't equal the first.. However, we will never know.

Bill H

I don't think the DeWinters would have returned to Manderley at any price. If they had any children, maybe the children would rebuild; no terrible memories for them.

Dame Judith Anderson, IMO, would probably dominate any show she was in. The second Mrs. DeWinter struck me as somewhat on the wimpy side. ..Babi

If Judith Anderson hadn't played the part of Mrs. Danvers, who else do you believe would have been suited for the part? Anna Massey played that part in the 1978 TV series along with Jeremy Brett and Joanna David.

However, Mrs No Name de Winters was supposed to be wimpy.Bill H

We have talked about liking old time mystery stories better than the movies that were made of these stories. But do we like any of these movies better than some of the novels?

Bill H

I liked "Thirty-Nine Steps" better as the 1935 Alfred Hitchcock movie, than the original mystery novel on which it was based. The film starred Robert Donat, Madeleine Carroll, Godfrey Tearle, Wylie Watson, and Peggy Ashcroft. The interactions between the characters, and the period sets were superb while the black and white photography added a layer to the mystery.

Marvelle

I'm posting this here as well as in the Library Section because I thought it might appeal to the wits here.

This looks like a hoot

This URL is for a book review from the Washington Post. I think the book would make for a 'fun' discussion as we see how many of the references we pick up on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6480-2004Mar18?language=printer

The first part of the review reads:

THE WELL OF LOST PLOTS; By Jasper Fforde.

It's a little difficult to describe the Thursday Next novels without making them sound precious and twee. In fact, they are somewhat precious and twee, but also great fun -- especially for those with a literary turn of mind and a taste for offbeat comedy in the tradition of Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams, Norton Juster and Lewis Carroll. Indeed, one of the pleasures in reading the three installments of the adventures of Thursday Next lies in recognizing the myriad bookish allusions, some obvious, some very sly indeed

Since I love Terry Pratchett, I'll definitely have a look at Jasper Fforde. That ought to be an easy name to remember! (Now watch me forget it.) ...Babi

ajfroms, I am going to start referring to you as Alice. You see, that was my mother's first name.)
Alf, King and Straub got together and wrote the Talisman and I thought it was a pretty good book. Did you like the way they wrote the Talisman?
Jean, an interesting link. I often wonder where these writers get these outlandish idea!!

Bill H

Folks, I'll be off the rest of the week. Please take care of Classical Mysteries for me till I get back.

Bill H

Have any of you read any Inspector Banks mysteries by Peter Robinson?

I just brought home "Dedicated Man" from the library, Horselover. It was recommended by one of the library staff who is a mystery reader. I haven't started it yet, though. Have you read any of Robinson's books?

I'm offering a Donald Westlake mystery (sorta) on the Book Exchange, if anyone is interested. It's "Good Behavior". Westlake does a great job of combining mystery and humor. ...Babi

I like Donald Westlake's humor so recommend him to anyone looking for a pleasant read. Haven't heard of Robinson - classic or modern mysteries?

Marvelle

Phyll, I recently read "Close To Home," another Inspector Banks mystery. I enjoyed it very much--interesting characters and lots of twists and turns. I believe "Dedicated Man" is an earlier Banks mystery, so you are reading them in the right order, while I will be going backwards in time. )

I looked up the information. Peter Robinson is a modern mystery writer, rather than classical, and different sites I explored call his books mystery-suspense, or suspense, or thriller, or police procedurals.

You get a lot of the personal life of Inspector Banks in Robinson's books; in one book he's broken up with a police-girlfriend and goes to Greece and I think his recently divorced wife comes into the picture. In "Close to Home" - published 2003 - Inspector Banks has by now broken up with his police-girlfriend but has another police-girlfriend and works with both of them (I think) on a case. Here are two of the sites I found, with the first one having a enthusiastic endorsement by Stephen King:

Inspector Banks

Peter Robinson Interview

Robinson is a top-selling modern writer however his books are classified - suspense, thriller, police procedurals, mystery.

Marvelle

I just checked B&N for Peter Robinson books. For at least his two latest, "Playing with Fire" (2004) and "Close to Home" (2003) you can read the first chapters.

Marvelle

Marvelle, Thanks for all the info on Inspector Banks. I've gotten hooked on this series and will probably eventually go through all of them.

Inspector Banks, "Gallows View", yesterday at the library so I stopped reading "A Dedicated Man" immediately and I started on "Gallows View" last night. I want to start at the beginning and try to find all of his books in order. I think I am really going to like Alan Banks. And I love the Dales area of England that he writes about.

Sorry that this is not really "classical" mystery but just consider that maybe someday--in a couple of generations--it will be. <grin>

Every classic once was new,
And built a large audience from a few.

I looking for a gift for my dad. He likes mysteries, so I'm taking a survey of what your favorite classical mysteries are? Thanks.

I nominate "The Nine Tailors" by Dorothy Sayers. Still my all-time favorite. Partly because I have been to the locale and partly because I'm fascinated by the art of bellringing.

Scrawler, I liked Michael Malone's "Uncivil Seasons", and all of Minette Walters books. ..Babi

My absence was do to hernia surgery. The morning after surgery the doctor told me that all went fine. After leaving the hospital I stayed at a very fine assisted living complex for a week before returning home. I feel OK, however, I tire easily and I plan on taking it easy for a while.

Bill H

By all means, Bill, take it easy and get back into stride gradually. No hurry around here.

I got a tape from CMP, "The Thirty-Nine Steps", B/W with Robert Donat, and Madeleine Carroll. I enjoyed it thoroughly, incl. the slightly stiff movements one sees in films of that period. Donat seemed much taller and bigger than I remember him from "Goodbye,Mr. Chips". ...Babi

Bill,

If I'd know you were going into the hospital, I'd have mailed you my copy of Burning Court to read. Glad you're on the mend.

Jean, thank you for the offer and I am feeling better. But, you know, even if you had sent that book to me I don't believe I could've read it. You see, ever since the surgery reading makes me very drowsy and I want to go to bed shortly after I start reading.
Several years ago a doctor told me that reading lowers the blood pressure and maybe that is why I get sleepy when I read.

Bill H

I rather think Burning Court would have you sitting up straight in your bed, with your hair at attention.

Jean, I'm going to have to read that one. But, you know, with all the anesthesia they had pumped into me I don't think anything would have had me sitting straight up in bed. I tried watching TV but I would get so sleepy I had to lye down. Anesthesia is a good cure for insomnia.

Bill H

Jeanlock, now you've got me wanting to read "Burning Court"....but not at bedtime, I think. <bg> ..Babi

There are some used copies of Burning Court available at Barnes and Noble
Burning Court

Bill H

You can bet I never paid that kind of price for a used paperback. I guess I'll just have to FORCE myself to get over to that bookstore. It's about 30 miles away, and I've just been too lazy. And I think I'll reread my copy again. Perhaps it won't have the same effect some 40 years later.

"...Pardon me, Bill. I didn't mean to turn this into a forum on etymology. But I guess you might call these words mysteries. <bg> ..Babi "
That’s OK, BaBi, you can turn Mystery into a etymology forum. I'm over here in Classical Mysteries )
I am starting to feel much better but still lack the old zing, however, it seems to be coming back.

Bill H

While rummaging around the Internet I found a mention of these two stories by Ellery Queen
The House of Darkness" (1935) and "The Treasure Hunt" (1935) show EQ's skill with elaborate, surrealistic backgrounds for his fiction. Both stories are also good mystery puzzles, not too realistic, but imaginative in their plotting"
Do any of you know anything about them?
Ever since I saw the movie The Picture of Dorian Gray--Oscar Wilde--I was interested in seeing the picture Wilde had in mind of Dorian Gray. Well, I found it. If you would like to have a peek just follow <p
Dorian Gray

Dosen't look much like the actor who played the role in the movie.<p.Bill H

Bill,

The only picture I found when I clicked was a picture of Oscar Wilde. Which link has the picture of the character in the book?

Did it again, did I? This isn't the first time I've posted a message in the wrong mystery slot. They usually come up back-to-back on my subscription list. (Like thats an excuse. snort)

...Babi

Well, Jean, I suppose the anesthesia is still working )

Bill h

Bill,

What the heck did they give you? And can I have some?

Jean, you don't want any it makes you feel tired and played out. I'm still felling drained from all of it that's why I haven't been posting as much as I usually do. I understand that it takes a few MONTHS before your system is cleared of it.

Bill H

Bill--

So, you just lie back and enjoy life. You'll return to normal, but I've noticed that it takes me longer now.

Doesn't everything take longer now, Jeanlock? <bg>

Whatever happened to Marvelle?

Bill H

I have had no luck in trying to find some Ellery Queen short stories that we can read on line. This would be for a book discussion probably in June. Do any of you know of any on line EQ stories?

Bill H

Is anyone interested in doing another Classical Mystery story?

Bill H

Did we ever make a decsion on Sayers, Christe & Queen? Or am I a day late and a dollar short. I'd love to do another classical mystery. My vote is for "Unnatural Death" by Dorthy Sayers or "Murder on the Orient Express" by Christie or "the Hollywood Murders" or okay I'll stop now. Actually any classical story would be fine with me.

BILL, there are scads of short stories by Ellery Queen under various titles, as of course you know, but I gather you want one that can be read on-line? Do you think the short story collections might be hard to find w/o buying a copy?

"Murder on the Orient Express" is so well known, I hardly know what one could say about it. The others SCRAWLER mentions would be good. There are some good Nero Wolfe short stories, too. ..Babi

I was trying to find something on line to save everyone one the expense of buying a book. However, I believe that is going to be difficult to do. The only ones I can find are the Poe and Sherlock stories but we did one of each of those. I'll see what I can find about those that have been mentioned. Thank you both for replying.

Bill H

You might check amazon.com in their used sections. I've picked up a few mystery books for as much as $1.00. The ones I've got have been in good shape.

Bill,

Great literature in the public domain is available from several places . Here is a sampling. A more complete list can be found at Etexts Online

The following is a list of web sites on which you can read (and download) books for free. Perhaps one of these sites might have some of the Ellery Queen stories. (Note: These are not links; you'll have to do a 'google' to get the links.)

Project Bartleby Archive
The Online Books Page
Electronic Text Center
Bibliomania
The Internet Public Library
Project Gutenberg

Bill, I haven't been here for a couple of weeks, and just found out about your surgery. Glad it was for nothing more serious than a hernia, and hope you'll be your old ebullient self very soon.

I'm in the middle of "Cold is the Grave" by Peter Robinson. Inspector Banks has been separated from his wife for a year and she has just asked for a divorce. He is working with DS Annie Cabot on a new murder case, but their affair is supposedly over. Also read some stories from the latest Ellery Queen magazine.

Any mystery for discussion is fine with me. I'm always glad to reread a good one, or find a new one I haven't read.

Back in January I asked Lorrie if she would colead du Maurier's Rebecca with me. Of course that gracious lady said yes. I imagine this was before she took a turn for the worse.
I've had discussing this classical mystery in the back of my mind ever since. I realize it is not short story but I truly believe it would make for a wonderful discussion. I'm sure the book is easily obtainable from the library or the used books stores If you folks would like to do this classic, I'll put it up in Proposed Discussions and if I can get at least three participants I'll try and schedule it to begin the first week in June and then set a schedule. June will give everyone a chance to obtain the book in whatever way is best for them.

Bill h

My thanks to Scrawler an Jean for giving us those online stories.
Horselover, I'm beginning to feel like my old self but the anesthesia lingers in the body for a spell and keeps one from being very ebullient and I still feel a bit sluggish from it.

Bill H

Yes, I'd love to discussion "Rebecca". I haven't read in years.

Here is a little more I found on Rebeccal that may interest some of the readers. I didn't know it one the Anthony Award for Best Novel of the Century!
From Our Editors
It's no wonder that the woman who becomes the second Mrs. de Winter (whose first name we never learn) eagerly accepts Maxim de Winter's offer of matrimony. She's young, orphaned, and employed as companion to a mean-spirited fading beauty. The handsome widower simply sweeps her off her feet. In a matter of days, the new bride accompanies her seemingly devoted husband to Manderley, his isolated home on the Cornish coast. From the first, the sinister housekeeper, Mrs. Danvers, frightens the new bride with her chilling devotion to the dead first Mrs. de Winter, Rebecca. And, all to soon, the second Mrs. de Winter realizes that Maxim married her for her youth and warmth, hoping to use her as a shield against Rebecca's malignant presence -- a lingering evil that threatens to destroy them both from beyond the grave.
First published in 1938, this classic gothic novel is such a compelling read that it won the Anthony Award for Best Novel of the Century.

Bill H

Scrawler--is it Alice? I hope we can get some more readers interested in the Rebecca discussion.

Bill

No, it's Anne. I hope we do to.

I re-read Rebecca a few months ago. It had been so long since I first read it, I was surprised at how little I remembered of it. It is a book that offers quite a bit of material for discussion. ...Babi

I need some one to talk to in order to keep this discussion open. It is up to you folks to determine if it stays or goes.

Bill H

It seems as thought there is much less conversation in the discussions I subscribe to - maybe it's spring weather?

Anyway, I did not like Rebecca - too intense maybe?

I read it for the first time about the same time as I read Jane Eyre, which is more gothic, and maybe it was just too much of all that dark and mysterious passion. I don't know. That was many years ago, and I have had occasion to reread Jane Eyre, but I have no desire to reread Rebecca.

n

My memory of the movie overshadows my memory of the book, which I read first, so maybe I should read the book again.

Bill,

Don't give up. As I may have said before, this year's resolutions were to get out and meet some 'real' people as opposed to my seniornet buddies. I've tended to be somewhat of a recluse the last few years, and was getting pretty stale. So I don't spend as much time here as I used to. But I do check it out every day and only post when I feel I really have something to say.

Jeanlock, I go over to the 'Adult' Center q. Tues/Thurs. mornings and play bridge. There are usually four tables on Tues., and we change partners/tables every half hour. This gives me a chance to mingle with other people at least twice a week, which is good for me. I could very easily become a recluse, as I've always tended to be a loner. SeniorNet has been good for me, too. Makes me think! ...Babi

Nhome, it is true that the novel Rebecca is very intense and suspenseful, these two qualities are what grips the reader long after the reader has finished the story and I believe these have made the novel an outstanding classic all these many years. A novel that has withstood the test of time.

Bill H

BaBi, we have a group that plays Bridge at the Adult Center not far from me they too meet once a week. However, I never learned how to play the game. I did try to get a Chess group started there but there were no takers.
Chess has grown in popularity in the United States, but it has never reached the level it enjoys in the European nations.

Bill H

I don't do bridge.

Tea parties are more my thing. And the Newcomers club has a lunch and movie program, a lunch program, and a needlecraft group. That should keep me moving. The Red Hats "just wanna have fun"

Jean, my late wife loved needlecraft, but I don't do tea parties )

Bill H

Bill,

I've begun rereading "Burning Court", but can only read it during the daylight hours. Don't remember just what frightened me so the first time I read it, but I had a family around me, and I was still scared. So decided to just take it slow and only when there's daylight. Hope to get to that bookstore Tuesday. My car's on the fritz and have to take it to my son the mechanic to fix. Then stop in Manassas at the bookstore on my way home.

I did learn how to play Bridge last year, but this is such a complicated game that it's difficult for a relatively new player to keep up with the "professionals" who have been playing for years. The players at the Bridge Club are very patient, but it is hard to play at their level and I always feel as if I am making foolish mistakes.

It was much easier to learn to play Mah Jongg and become as proficient as the long-term players.

Mah-Jongg?? That game was so fast-moving I got dizzy just watching some players! I need a game that allows me some thinking time. <bg> ...Babi

BaBi, Well then, you should try chess. I guarantee you will do a lot of thinking )

Bill H

BaBi, I know what you mean by the dizzy pace of some Mah Jongg games. But I try to play with those who like to talk and think when they play. And I never play for money. For me, it's fun, not gambling.

Are we still on to read Rebecca for the June discussion?

Bill, I learned basic chess moves from my Dad when I was a kid. I then taught them to my younger brother, who shortly thereafter began to defeat me easily. He had the mind for it; I don't. I'll take you on in Scrabble, tho'. ...Babi

Scrawler, yes we are going to do the Rebecca discussion. I have been asked to do the PBS series FUTURE CARS starting about May 16th I will try and find out if I can do the Rebecca discussion as soon as I finish with that, however, it may have a little later starting date than June 1. Let me find out.

Bill H

It would be fun if we could figure out a way to play Scrabble online together.

Does Pogo have Scrabble game rooms? Maybe we could figure out a time when three or four of us could play and reserve a room. Question: Do we use a legitimate dictionary or the 'Official Scrabble Dictionary", which allows things no English teacher would tolerate. And totally ignores the standard game rules, like no foreign words (exc. those that have become standard in English usage) or obsolete words. ..Babi

Daphne du Maurier's "Rebecca" has been moved out to proposed. Here is a link:
REBECCA

Bill H

I will join you for this. There are many webpages where you can play scrabble online! Go to www.playsite.com and www.games.com

I have finally read a Ngaio Marsh book that included the Alleyn's son, Ricky. He appears in Spinsters in Jeopardy, at age 6. I would like to read any earlier books that include him. Does anyone know which book introduced him, and any interim appearances? I found him an enjoyable character. ...Babi

Bluebird, thank you for joining the Rebecca discussion.
Babi, I'll try and find out.

Bill H

Thank you kindly, sir. ...Babi

The classic mystery novel "Rebecca"--Daphne du Maurier--has been moved to the "Coming Individual Book Discussions." Please join us in this timeless classic.

Bill H

Last night I read the House of Secrets by Daphne du Maurier. This was a very short story but I found it to be so relaxing. I could relate to the theme of the novel because it reminded me of the house I was raised. Did any of you read this nove?

Bill H

I'm not sure, Bill. There seem to be so many books with titles similar to "House of Secrets", I can't keep track. Briefly, what was it about? ...Babi

BaBi, the House of Secrets, by du Maurier, is about a young woman discovering and becoming obsessed with an old English house called Menabilly. She keeps pursuing her goal of living in the house till she finally realizes her dream. The story takes place during WW2 England and is a very, very short story. I could not find the story by doing a Barnes and Noble search.

Bill H

Nope, haven't read that one. (I'm sure I'd remember a house called 'Menabilly'.)

I've been deep in some Sara Douglass fantasy/sagas lately, and haven't read a mystery in over a week. Imagine!

...Babi

I happen to run across this passage about Menabilly while reading about du Mauier:

"University was not, at the time thought fashionable for a young woman of her standing, so du Maurier continued her own education, working daily on her writing and reading extensively. In addition, she was learning the ways and the lore of the people of Cornwall. In particular, she was learning about the history of Fowey and of the old Rashleigh family and their seat, Menabilly. Coming across the house one day, she immediately fell in love with it and formed an obsession that would last until she occupied it herself during the Second World War."

"As she later wrote in Daphne du mauier: Myself When Young, "the place called to me." Hidden from view and overgrown with ivy, Menabilly had been empty for years and was full of dust and mold. But du Maurier was intrigued by the atmosphere of secrecy and decay that enveloped the house and grounds. Visiting the estate stimulated her vivd imagination and left her wondering about those who had lived and died there. Menability eventually served as the model for a number of her fictional locales, most notably Manderley in "Rebecca".

So Menabilly was also Manderley!! Scrawler, that's wonderful. We will have to see if we can't come up with a picture of Menabilly for the Rebecca discussion. There must be one! It would add so much to the visualizaion of the story. ...Babi

I found a picture of Menabilly at this site, but could not 'copy' the picture to paste here.

www.dumaurier.org/memories

Babi, is this the picture of Menabilly? And thank you for the link to the graphic. Perhaps we can work it in with the Rebecca discussion in some way.
Wartime Menabilly

Bill H

Scrawler, thank you for that passage from "The House of Secrets." That is the short story I read. And, you know, while I was reading it I thought du Maurier was writing about herself or something she wished to do.

Bill H

Babi, thank you very much for that web address I believe it can be used very well in the Rebecca discussion.
Daphne du Maurier

Bill H

Rebecca's Tale
by Sally Beauman

April 1951. It is twenty years since the death of Rebecca, the hauntingly beautiful first wife of Maxim de Winter. It is twenty years since the inquest, which famously - and controversially - passed a verdict of suicide. Twenty years since Manderley, the de Winter ancient family seat, was razed to the ground.

But Rebecca's tale is just beginning.

On the twentieth anniversary of her death, family friend Colonel Julyan - who also presided over the notorious inquest - receives an anonymous parcel in the post. It contains a black notebook with two handwritten words on the title page - Rebecca's Tale - and two pictures: a photograph of Rebecca as a young child, and a postcard of Manderley.

Julyan's conscience has never been clear over the official version of Rebecca's death. Was it really suicide, or was it actually murder? Was Rebecca the manipulative, promiscuous femme fatale her husband claimed, or the gothic heroine of tragic proportions that others had suggested? The official story, the 'truth' has only ever had Maxim's version of events to consider. But all that is about to change.....

Sally Beauman has taken Daphne du Maurier's celebrated twentieth-century classic, Rebecca, and crafted a compelling companion for the twenty-first. Haunting, evocative, mesmerising, Rebecca's Tale is for anyone who has ever dreamt of going back to Manderley again.

Published by LITTLE.BROWN in the UK

There is a webpage at http://www.dumaurier.org that you can go to when we start Rebecca

That is the picture I was trying to copy, Bill. Isn't it a beautiful place? Please tell me how you copied it, so I can figure out what I wasn't doing. I could copy the printed text easily, but not the picture. ...Babi

BaBi, I am going to ask one of our techs to teach you to post graphics in a message box. It is easy to learn but it is done by using HTML and it would be a little much to do here and they could explain it to you far better than I.

Bill H

Bluebird, thank you for the link. I liked it and now it is in the heading.

Bill H

BaBi: If you want to save a picture from a site, you can right click on it, usually, and then save image as and save it as a jpg to your desktop.

To post a picture, requires uploading it to a third server...like Webpost or your own webpage directory and then linking to it with the HTML coding below:

<img src="URL OF YOUR PICTURE">

I hope I've understood what it is you want to know?

jane

BaBi, Go to the following SeniorNet page. It explains very clearly how to do exactly what you want to do.

Displaying a Photo or Image
http://www.seniornet.org/php/default.php?PageID=6268

Yesterday's post had an article by Gail Godwin about Jane Eyre. I've decided I'll to read it again. It's been years since I last enjoyed it.

Here's the link to her discussion:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25709-2004May13.html

And, along the same road: There's a novel "Wide Sargasso Sea" which purports to give the story of Mr. Rochester's wife's early life. I listened to it on Books on Tape once, but wasn't too impressed. "Jane" is better.

Thanks, everybody. I think I've got it. We'll see if I've got it right the next time I see a picture I want to copy and post. ...Babi

Jean, thank you for the link. I have to register first. I lost my password and I think I'll just regeister again.

Bill H

The reading schedule for REBECCA has been posted.
Rebecca

Bill H

It's going to be difficult to reread "Rebecca" in the same way as the first time. It is, after all, a mystery, and I now know the answer to the mystery. It's now clearer why Maxim married the second Mrs. DeWinter, and his feelings about Rebecca have been revealed as well as his involvement in and attitude toward her death. So much of the original suspense is disipated. Still, I can now see many things that I missed when I was caught up in the mystery and suspense. I hope we will be discussing some of those things together.

Horselover, I have been rereading Rebecca (for the third time) the last few days and I'm enjoying it again. I, too, see things more clearly. now that I missed the first time maybe it is because I'm preparing for the discussion, and I'm looking forward to your posts. Perhaps you can bring some of these things to light.

Bill H

I love to read especially mysteries. I hope all of you can give me some good suggetions for some of the older ones (scary) or even some of the new (scary) ones. Have any of you read the Shaker Mysteries? Thanks, Lee Ann

angelk, for 'scary' new writers, I can recomment Minette Walters. She is GOOD!

For old and scary, you can't beat Henry James.

Stick around. You'll hear lots of books and authors recommended. ..Babi

I see a classic as a book that you can read again and again and each time you get something new out of it. I see Rebecca as just such a book. I'm not sure how many times I've read this book.

Angelk, welcome to the discussion. I'm happy you found us. If you would search back through the previous posts here, you will find a wealth of old time mysteries that we recommended and talked about. You will find most of them very interesting. Also, click on some of the links in the heading especially the link called "Antique Dective Stories" found in the heading they will take you to a wealth of oldies.
Scrawler, I'm reading Rebecca for the third time, and last night I discovered some things I didn't pay attention to the first two readings. Daphne du Maurier's word painting in this novel is a wonder.

Bill h

"Jamica Inn by du Maurier was another Cornish coast novel by this author that I enjoyed very much. And who can forget her "My Cousin Rachel"

Bill H

"Jamaica Inn" I read and remember with pleasure. I don't think I've ever read "My Cousin Rachel". What was that about? ...Babi

When I took out "Rebecca" to reread for the discussion, the librarian was gushing about what a wonderful book it is. She thought I was reading it for the first time and told me how much she thought I would enjoy it. It seems to be a universal favorite. Of course, I already knew how good it is.

BaBi. Here is the review of My Cousin Rachel from the Barnes and Noble website.
From the Publisher
"My Cousin Rachel is the gripping story of a Victorian young man whose placid life in the English countryside is turned inside-out by an older woman. The young man is Philip Ashley, the novel's narrator. Orphaned at an early age, he's been raised by his bachelor uncle Ambrose, who falls in love and marries while traveling in Florence, then dies there in suspicious circumstances. Shortly after her husband'1s death, Ambrose's widow turns up in England, setting the stage for the unfolding of a relationship between the callow Philip and the beautiful, sophisticated, mysterious widow. And while Philip impetuously embraces the role of the moth flapping full-tilt toward the flame, the widow never puts a foot wrong. Is she designedly luring Philip to his doom? Might she even have had a hand in Ambrose's death? Originally published in 1951,My Cousin Rachel was made into a film in 1953"
Synopsis A "thumping good read" from a 20th-century master
Folks this review or synopsis doesn't even begin to do justice to this VERY dramatic novel. If you haven't read this story, you are in for a great read when you do. Don't miss out on this because it takes its place alongside all the great Classical Mysteries.

Bill H

As was explained in the synopsis, My Cousin Rachel was made into a movie. The black and white filming of this picture with the dramatic shadow and lighting effects adds more suspense to the tale. If you wish to see the very fine cast of actors in this movie please click
My Cousin Rachel

Bill H

Here is how the Internet Movie Data base rates the top fifty movie mysteries. This rating is based on how movie fans voted.
Top 50 Movey Mysteries

Bill

No, I haven't read that one, Bill, and thanks for the synopsis. I'll see if I can find it. I would like to read it. ..Babi

Babi, I hope you can get a hold of My Cousin Rachel. You will find it VERY suspenseful as well as dramatic. Good read.

Bill H

I like the Agatha Christie novels, however, I find her Hercule Poirot mysteries very difficult to follow. Even though the clues are give--hmmm--I can never figure them out. Is it just me or do some of you feel this way also.
I thought the Poirot stories were the most widely acclaimed Christie novels but Barnes and Nobel says this about
"And Then Their Were None"
"Agatha Christie's most famous and acclaimed novel! Ten strangers are gathered together on an isolated island by a mysterious host. They share the darkest secrets of their pasts, and then, one by one, they die."

Bill H.

BILL, I always felt the Hercule Poirot stories did not entirely 'play fair' with the reader. I remember particularly the time I found one solution hinged on a single off-hand remark someone made early in the story. I can't remember which story it was, but you wouldn't want to read it anyway. Aggravating! ...Babi

Babi, I must in all honesty say that I never did like any of the Hercule Poirot stories. I even avoid the TV shows like they had the plague.

Bill H

Hmmm... and I thought I was out of step about the Poirot TV shows... The enunciation is poor and I never cared for the plots. He was too egotistical for me.

Pat, I never could understand the enunciation ether. In fact, I'm not ashamed to say, I didn't understand the movies. By the way, I'm so glad you stopped in.

Bill H

Movies and TV shows are different medias from books. Sometimes they don't transform as well because of exactly what you've been saying. While Pirot comes off very well in the books, his character loose alot because we are trying to understand what he is saying. And since he is the main character - what he says is important. I liked the movies and TV programs though because of the scenery and period costumes. But I always have enjoyed books much more than movies and TV shows. You can use your imagination with books - the characters seem to step right off the pages.

I enjoy the Poirot movies better than the books and especially liked the actor who played Poirot, which is unusual for me as I normally like books better than movies. Didn't have a problem with the accent. However, between Poirot and Marple, I much prefer Miss Marple. I don't believe I have heard anyone mention Harry Kemelman's Rabbi series--"Monday the Rabbi Took Off", "Tuesday the Rabbi Saw Red", etc. I enjoyed this series and occasionally re-read them. The first one was published in 1972?

FlaJean, I read all the Rabbi series and enjoyed them very much. In addition to interesting plots and characters, they taught me a lot about the Jewish religion.

I must admit I did enjoy the time frame of the Poirot movies. However, the movies of this period I really enjoyed watching were the Agatha Christie's Tommy and Tuppence series because of the wearing apparel styles--both men and women-- and the make up the women wore! Wasn't the lipstick really red!? And how about those big padded shoulders of the ladies dresses ) I think what made all this stand out even more was the high key lightning effect of the Tommy and Tuppence movies. Was that time frame more the twenties or thirties? <p.Bill H

Here's a link to some of the Harry Kemelman novels.

Bill H

There are Miss Marple stories online. I will give Bill some webpages.

I have read some of the Tommy and Tuppence stories and enjoyed them. I didn't know any movies had been made. The stories I read were during the early years of World War II and had to do with espionage. Would love to see the movies.

Bluebird, I'm looking forward to that link that takes us to online reads of the Miss Marple stories. One or two of them might make for a good discussion.
FlaJean, I believe the Tommy and Tuppence movies I spoke of were made for TV. If my memory serves me correctly PBS carried the series.

Bill H

I'm trying to remember if the Tommy and Tuppence novels were published around the time of the Nick and Nora Charles Thin Man stories.

Bill H

Tommy and Tuppence were my favorite Agatha characters. Did not know they did movies however. I loved the books.. Mostly short stories, but fun./

Stephanie, the movies of Tommy and Tuppence I spoke of were made for TV. PBS aired the series. I'll see if I can locate anything for you on the Internet Movie Data base.

Bill H

I'm going to Ohio today; be gone 'til late Sunday. I may not be able to get on the net while I'm gone. Didn't want y'all to think I didn't love you anymore. :>) ...Bobbie

BaBi, have a nice trip.

Bill H

Just borrowed the movie of "Jamaica Inn." Will watch it tonight.

Horselover, watch the movie, but by all means read the book you'll love it.

Bill H

For those of you who are fans of Alexander McCall Smith and Precious Ramotswe, the latest installment is available. "The Full Cupboard of Life" continues the saga of these charming and funny characters and the odd mysteries which occupy their lives.

Horselover, thank you for the heads up. Here' is a link if any of you would like to read more on the
The Full Cupboard of Life

Bill H

I have been searching the Internet for a reasonable facsimile of an English mansion that could depict Daphne du Maurier's Manderley. As you all know, Manderley was the mansion used in the novel Rebecca. Do any of you know of a website showing English mansions?

Bill HA

Bill, Here's a photo of the movie version of Manderley:

http://www.geocities.com/angel_tear99/manderley.html

BILL, Manderley was based on a home that DuMaurier loved and eventally bought as her home. I remember we had pictures of it posted here not too long ago. It would probably be the most accurate representation of 'Manderley'; more so than Hollywood. ...Babi

Horselover, thank you for the link to the graphic of Manderly. I think that may prove useful later on. I see that link also makes it possible to read Rebecca on line. Ordinarily that would be great, but I hesitate to post the link in the discussion because it may serve to trigger more posts about the movie than about the book. I'm sure there is going to be enough ot that as it is ) I hope not.
BaBi, yes that house that du Maurier liked so much was Menabilly but I'm sure Manderly, as the author described it, was a great deal larger than Menabilly. I do remember that graphic quite well. I'm sure I posted it not too long ago in here in Classical Mysteries. My thanks to the both of you for helping me.

Bill H

Bill, I understand your apprehensions about the movie intruding on our discussion of the book, although I think this movie was pretty faithful to the book. I reread the book and watched the movie again, and I was quite surprised at what a good job they did.

Horselover, the movie of Rebecca with Fontaine and Olivia did do a faithful job of recreating the book, and so did the TV series that aired on PBS that starred Joanna David and Jeremy Brett (I hope I spelled their names correctly) but I fear that if those movies are discussed the readers will have a tendency to jump ahead of the scheduled reading. This would spoil the reading for those who are keeping to the schedule.
A few years ago I was in a discussion where I was guilty of jumping ahead and one lady really took me to task for doing so. She said: "Now you have spoiled the story for me," and she dropped out of the discussion. However, I was not the DL in that discussion. I did apologize to both that lady and the DL, but I made very few posts in that discussion afterwards.

Bill H

Bill, Joan Fontaine and Sir Lawrence Olivier starred in the movie.

I agree with you about keeping to the schedule as closely as possible, but I also think we need to be patient with one another if a slip is made. Sometimes enthusiasm overrides restraint. )

Horselover, OK.

Bill H

There are many stories online but two that are good

http://christie.thefreelibrary.com/ Mysterious Affair at Styles

www.gutenberg.net/etext98/secad10.txt Secret Adversary Tommy and Tuppence!

Bluebird, thank you for the link it opens up many ideas for me. By the way, Leyube is just my e-mail name and why I chose it is beyond me.

Bill H

Bill: Les Roberts would not be included on your roster of classic mystery writers I don't think, but if you like your P.I., cop, or whatever to ply his trade in a city you are familiar with, here is one I would recommend. Les Roberts was a Californian transplanted to Cleveland where he penned a series of maybe a dozen books with the hero being a blue collar Polish former cop turned P.I. Milan Jacovich. I've read them all and I think I enjoyed them so much more because he goes to places, eats at places, talks about places I know. The sad part is that he is not going to write anymore Milan Jacovich novels, at least for now he says. Try him if you haven't. If you like it, you have a bunch more to read and you never know, he may start writing more of them.

www.cnajs.com/english/murderannounce

Murder is Announced

Jim, so glad you found the Classical Mystery forum. I hope you find these old detective stories and their authors interesting. To find more about these stories and authors just click on any of the links in the heading. Oh, by the way, thank you for the tip on Les Roberts. I'm going to research some of his novels because I'm always open to new suggestions.

Bill H

Bluebird, thank you the link, however, I am having trouble opening it in English. Is this an on line read?

Bill H

We start the discussion on "Rebecca" tomorrow, right? >>>Babi

The "Rebecca" discussion opens tomorrow, June, 15, 2004. Hope all of you join in.

Bill H

I realize this novel is not a classical mystery, but I just started this book last night and the first few pages really grabbed hold of me and wouldn't let go. I stayed up reading until almost 3:00 AM.
I can't believe I never read any of Mary Higgins Clark's novels, but I will now! Does she always write this well? From what I've read, this story seems like it would make a good book discussion.

Bill

It can be read online.

www.book999.com/agatha/announced/

The "Rebecca" discussion is now open for your posts. Please follow this link:
REBECCA

Bill H

Bluebird, thank you for the link. I can read it now!

Bill H

BILL, IMO, Mary Higgins Clark is one of the best of the modern mystery writers. I share your amazement that you've never read any of her books before now. :0) You are in for some good reading! ...Babi

BaBi, yes, I can see I am in for some very good reading. Oh my, so many good books to read. Are we not lucky.

Bill H

And leisure to enjoy them! Indeed we are... Babi

BaBi, I'm very happy you post here, otherwise I'd be talking to myself.

Bill H

SHUCKS, BILL, THEY'RE ALL OVER AT "REBECCA", POSTING LIKE MAD!! ..bABI

I read most of his books as a teenager some fifty odd years ago. My father was reading the and renting them from the rental library . . . I picked up on it then. He had a pseudonym to that I forget now, but I read all of those too. . . . . "ve got four books going right now so will pass on Rebecca, but will stay in touch. . . . Claire,p.PS thanks for the tip on jumping ahead. I can't help reading ahead sometimes but I don't have to talk about what's there. will beheave after this.

was as far as I got. I didn't realize gardner was so prolific, the perry mason books pre eced by pulp featuring "Ed Jenkins and Patent Leather Kid stories ". I do remember the DA ones though forgetthe name he wrote them under. I followed the link in the heading here to all the mystery writeers. . . . yummy stuff. thanks bill.

Claire, heck yes, Earle Stanley Gardner's books are all great old classics. Thank you for bringing him to our attention.
BaBi, yes, you are right they are all over at Rebecca's house )

Bill H

Folks, today is NOT THE LAST DAY OF THE REBECCA DISCUSSION. Please continue posting in Rebecca.

I finished "On the Street Where You Live"--Mary Higgins Clark.
I had a hunch who the killer was--just a hunch mind you-- and it turned out to be right.
Very enjoyable reading. I'll have to read more of her work.

Bill HA

she surprised me too. I think it's her mother(?similar name, related?) who wrote romance books and I confused them. .. she's good. I liked her, forget the name f the book though. . . . . claire

Mary Higgins Clark has written oodles of mysteries. Her daughter is the new writer on the scene, and is also writing mysteries. She may also write romances, I don't know. The name is very similar, but at the moment I can't pull it up on my mental screen. Sorry....Babi

BaBi, Did you mean her daughter Carol?
They co authored this one. "He Sees You When Your Sleeping."

Bill H

Well, ladies and gentleman, what did you think of the Classical Mystery "Rebecca" discussion?

Bill H

YEAH, CAROL. That's the one.

Great job on Rebecca, Bill. So what's up next? (Okay, take a couple days rest, first.) ...Babi

I want to second BaBi's kudos to Bill for a great discussion of "Rebecca." Looking forward to the next mystery discussion.

Thank you BaBi and Horselover for the compliment. I may be doing another Classical Mystery in a few weeks.
Rebecca took up so much of my time that I need some time to catch up on yard work. Stay tuned.

Bill H

My daughter is currently reading Henry James' The Turn of The Screw, and is highly critical of the 'Great Man'.

She says his sentences are so long and convoluted, that you find yourself at the end of the sentence wondering what the h___ he just said! [TRUE] He takes a page to say something that could have been said in two sentences. [TRUE] No modern English instructor would let him get away with this for a minute, ..never mind an editor or publisher. [SHE'S RIGHT, YOU KNOW.]

I guess if you are going to enjoy Henry James, you simply have to love elegant verbosity, and be willing to parse sentences to follow the sense. But, I enjoyed that sort of thing much more when I was young, and felt like I had all the time in the world. :<( <bg>Babi

I happen to love Henry James, but you're right by the time you get down to the end of the paragraph he's either lulled you to sleep or you have to start over again because you're not sure what he said. But his characters are so down to earth and real that I can forgive him for his repeating plots in book after book.

Great job, Bill! I could not get the book but I did read what other people wrote. I can't wait for the next one, too!

I'll pass on your point about Henry James' characters to Valerie, SCRAWLER. Perhaps it will give her a pleasanter focus for her reading. There must be something holding her interest, as she has not abandoned the book. ...Babi

In Rebecca we never really saw the ghost, but in Henry James: Turn of the Shrew, not only can see the ghost, but you can also feel the ghost. I think what gave me the chills about this book is what happens to the children.

Hehe.. I think that was a screw turning, Scrawler, not a shrew. <bg>

Babi

TCM showed the movie "Dangerous Lady--1931. This was an early version of the Maltese Falcon. The top stars in this movie were Bebe Daniels--remember her-- as Ruth Wonderly and Ricardo Cortez as Sam Spade. I don't know Ricardo Cortez.
The acting was so bad it was amusing )
Maybe the Maltese Falcon would make a good book discussion in the fall.

Bill H

I've heard of Bebe Daniels; don't know if I ever saw her in a film. Never heard of the other two.

The Maltese Falcon would be fun to discuss...if we can find copies of the book to read. Is it still in print?

Babi

I got my copy from Amazon.com last year sometime. I too think it would be fun to discuss.

I think we could get copies of the Maltese Falcon from Banrnes and Noble. I'll check and see.

Bill H

If you would like to see and read a mini bio of Bebe Daniels, please click
Bebe Daniels
It's interesting.

Bill H

Our Barnes and Noble have quite a few copies of the "Maltese Falcon." Click here to see them
Maltese Falcon

Bill H

It seem Dashiell Hammett could be very diverse in his writing For example he wrote both the Maltese Falcon and The Thin Man. One was so heavily dramatic and the Thin Man, too me, seemed the complete opposite.
Do you agree with this?

Bill H

Yes, I agree. The Thin Man is light and a little tongue-in-cheek.

FlaJean, I think the Thin Man movies made the books popular.

Bill H

I think of the two books the "Maltese Falcon" had a more siniser theme to it and so it had to be handled differently from the "Thin Man."

Scrawler, Oh yes, the Thin Man has an altogether different theme than the Maltese Falcon. The Maltese Falcon seemed to deal with a bunch of hardboiled rogues. While the Thin Man dealt with more sophisticated people. In the book I don't think the North's got as long as well as the couple portrayed in the movies.

Bill H

In those days, Bill, I don't think Hollywood considered realism a selling point. Romance and 'happily ever after' were the keynotes. How many of us poor young souls were filled with unrealistic expectations? Even the mysteries had to have their romance, and today's mayhem and gore were strictly verboten. Now, I think so-called 'realism' has been carried to the other extreme.

I think of the North stories as the 'Cole Porter' of mystery fiction. Light and sophisticated. For the purposes of a discussion, we can choose light and sophisticated, or hardboiled yeggs.

(Sorry. My penchant for puns overcomes me at times. ...Babi

Just a quite note about horror. I watched the movie "Rebecca" directed by Hitchcock on DVD and the DVD went into details as to how Hitchcock was able to divert the censors so he got away with more horror. For example in the movie where Judith Anderson shows the 2nd Mrs. de Winter Rebecca's night gown, her hand is in the sheer material for less than a second when the camera focuses on the "snake-like" eyes of Anderson and we forget the skimpy gown. Also in the scene where de Winter tells his 2nd wife about Rebecca's killing, Hitchcock slowly moves the camera around the room, focusing on de Winter when he is crouched in the corner or when he is in shadows, while we listen to what he says. It shows him as being trapped and this makes it more sinister, but again the censors didn't pick it up.

Scrawler, thank you for mentioning Dame Judith Anderson. I always get her and Agnes Morehead mixed up. Do you think Agnes Morehead would have made a good Mrs. Danverfs?

Bill H

IMHO, Agnes Moorehead would be great in anything she chose to do! ...Babi

If I'm not mistaken I think Agnes Moorehead was in one of the radio broadcasts made by the Lux Radio Theater. Also, Lawerence Olivier wanted Vivien Leigh to play the part of the 2nd Mrs. de Winter, but Selznich and Hitchcock didn't like her in the part. She adventually played the part on radio with Olivier in the 1951 Lux Radio Theater production. I could see why they didn't want her.

One other note that I found interesting. On September 1, 1939, the German Army invaded Poland. England declared war on September 3rd. Hitchcock and his predominately British players were tormented by the fears about their families and friends. On September 8, in an atmosphere of gloom and anxiety, principal photography of "Rebecca" commenced. Hitchcock used this "atmosphere of gloom and anxiety" to his advantage as well as the actors fear to better portray their characters.

Scrawler, I did read that Oliver wanted Vivien Leigh to play the part of the 2nd Mrs. de Winter. I agree with Selznich and Hitchcock not wanting her for the part. I just can't see Leigh as the demure young woman that du Maurier wrote about.
By the way I loved those old time radio shows like the Lux Radio Theater and I love a Mystery, etc.

Bill H

http://www.radiolovers.com

There are free old mystery radio shows online!

Olivier used his influence to promote his (by then) wife's career. She made a great Scarlett O'Hara, but I don't recall that she accomplished anything of importance after that. Maybe the role of Scarlett was just perfectly suited to her. ...Babi

Bluebird, good to see you again, and thank you for the link to the old time radio mysteries. If you like, I'll see if I can still find my link to the old time radio Sherlock Holmes Mysteries with Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce. If I still Have them I'll post them here.

Bill H

BaBi, Vivian Leigh did turn in a good performance as Scarlet. But the performace of Leslie Howard was actually sickening.

Bill H

BILL, I didn't like the character Howard was playing, but I thought that was intentional on Howard's part. I didn't read the book. Was it the acting or the role? ...Babi

Babi, I think it was the acting. The character in the book didn't come across as wimpy as what Leslie Howard did .in the movie.
If you can find the time, please read "Gone With the Wind. Since you did see the movie, you will enjoy the book so much better. All the characters in the books will have faces.

Bill H

Yes! Please post the Sherlock Holmes webpage.

Yes, I'd have to agree Howard didn't really come across as the character in the book did, but I think the director down-played his part to make Gable the star. Although I liked the movie, I thought the book was much better than the movie. Than again they are two different medias. In the book you can go into greater detail about the characters' background and motives, while in the movie it's more action. The author herself was disappointed in the movie when she saw how they portrayed the dying soldiers in Atlanta. She said that if she had known they were going to do that, she wouldn't have sold the book to Hollywood. Speaking of sale. It still blows my mind that the author only got $500 for the book. I realize it was the 1930s, but look at the millions Hollywood have made off of it and still are!

Bluebird here is the link to the Sherlock Holmes radio shows. These are the programs staring Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce. The audio is very clear in mos. but some some of the real old ones are a bit scratchy. I downloaded several to a CD for future listening Those old stories brought back some fond memories.
Sherlock Holmes Radio Stories

Bill H

And here are some Sherlockian links.
Sherlockian Links
Scrawler, when you said the author only got five hundred dollars for the book (Gone With the Wind,) did you mean for the movie rights. If that is the case she really was taken to the cleaners.

Bill HBill H

Yes, she only got $500 for the movie rights. She was a small town girl that was grateful for the money. Hollywood took a chance in making the film. They were competition with another studio (can't remember which or what film they had made)but they were able to get Gable because he'd been a "bad boy" and his studio loaned him out. Studios back than really did "own" you body and soul. I liked Gable and even Howard, but I think they were mis-cast in this movie. But what do I know? I didn't make millions!

Scrawler, I think Gable and Leigh were OK, but I do think Howard was miscast.
I read the book after I saw the movie and I kept seeing Gable and his rakish ways in Rhett Butler. I enjoyed the book much more after seeing the movie.

Bill H

I have asked that "The Maltese Falcon" be placed on the Drawing Board for October 15th. The discussion will be just in time for Halloween. If Maltese meets with your approval please let me know.

Bill H

By all means! ...Babi

Bluebird and BaBi, I 'll be moving Maltese to proposed soon. I hope we can find one more participant to make a quarom. Keep your fingers crossed.

Bill H

I'm also interested in The Maltese Falcon. Count me in.

FlaJean, GOOD, GOOD! That will give us a quorum. I'll move it out to proposed. Maybe we can pick up some more and then I'll move up to "Upcoming Discussions. "

Bill H

Ok! You guys twisted my arm. I'll be there on Oct. 15. See you all soon.

Scrawler, thank you! Hey, Maltese is really rolling along!

Bill H

FrancyLou, great! Now we have five. The Falcon is flying. I better get started on the heading so I can move it up to Proposed. Maybe we can a lot more. You know the old saying-"The more the Merrier."

Bill H

I'm making a heading for The Maltese Falcon. Maybe someone can find an on line reading of this novel for those who can't get the book.

Bill H

Folks, would all of you who said they wish to participate in the Maltese Falcon discussion please sign up in the PROPOSED so that I can have it moved to UPCOMING? Here is a link for you
PROPOSED MALTESE FALCON

Bill H

Hello, is there still anybody at home here.
We have a quorum for the Maltese Falcon, so I'll ask it be moved to UPCOMING.

Bill H

Has anyone read any of the "Thin Man" stories?

Bill H

Don't remember reading any. I remember seeing most of the movies at Saturday matinees. ...Babi

I think I have only seen the movies. I tried to order books from the Library. All they had were videos.

BaBik and FrancyLou, You know what. I have only seen the movies myself. I'm going to have to read one of the books.

Bill H

I also have only seen the movies. I haven't checked at the library to see if they have any copies.

I was reviewing the top 50 Mystery stories. The first ten are:

The Murders in the Rue Morgue--Poe The Moonstone --Wilkie Collins Adventures of Sherlock Holmes--Conan Doyle The Hound of the Baskervilles--Conan Doyle Trent's Last Case--E.C. Bentley The thirty-Nine Steps--John Buchan Inspector French's Greatest Case--Freedman Wills Croft The Benson Murder Case--S.S. Van Dine The Murder of Roger Ackroyd--Agatha Christie The Maltese Falcon--Dashiell Hammett
We had a book discussion of The Murders in the Rue Morgue last year and, now, the Maltese Falcon is coming up in October. Just imagine two of our discussions made the all time top ten.
Have any of you folks read some of these.

Bill H