Prized Fiction - Prize Winners/Nominees ~ 6/99 Export

Barbara - the Hugo awards are for science fiction, so unless you're into that genre (and I haven't been since I was a kid), you'd probably never hear of the winners. I haven't heard of the Orange awards either.

And you are so right about the Bookers. A short listed book for the Bookers is as good as (or better than) a lot of prize winners on other lists.

Prissy - that's a very nice list. I think they read Ladder of Years in (interestingly) the Romance discussion a month or two ago. Isn't that the one about the woman who abandons her family one day and starts a new life in a small town? I liked that book.

Haven't read Paradise but love Toni Morrison, so that would be a great choice too.

Loved The Short History of a Prince. Hated Accordian Crimes, I'm sorry to say, since I so loved The Shipping News, also by Proulx.

Haven't read the Shreve book although I too recall some discussion of it recently. Someone here will post something, I trust.

Love Amy Tan also. Can't recall if I read the book, however. I was on a Tan kick for awhile when she was really hot - not sure what she's doing of late.

All in all, some good choices.

The only prize winner I've [knowingly] read and actually liked, other than mysteries, was A Thousand Acres by Jane Smiley. It was wonderful but I haven't cared much for any of her other novels.

I am eagerly waiting to see what you choose here and hope to give it a whirl!

Jeryn - I agree that A Thousand Acres was great, and I just hated Moo, her next book. The something something Travels of Lidie Newton was a good book, however; have you tried that one?

I am really looking forward to having you join us. I think we have some great suggestions already and will begin the voting Sunday, June 20.

Prissy, there was a discussion of the book called "The Color of Water" some months ago. Don't think we have discussed "The Weight of Water" yet.

We have archived most of the previous book discussions in case someone was interested in reading the discussions of any of the books. If you haven't checked out that folder here is a clickable that will show you the listing: Archived Book Discussions

SarahT, I have a recommendation for your consideration. For the first book why not focus on one of the Booker Award books say in the last 3-4 years. This will narrow the field to help us get started and then we can go from there.

Larry

I'm game for Larry's suggestion. (By the way, Larry is a wonderful Roundtables host and has been incredibly helpful and welcoming to me since I started posting here. I remember joining my first discussion here and expressing some feelings of intimidation and he was really reassuring. So Larry's suggestions always carry a lot of weight with me!)

One of the Booker Prize winners you have suggested here is Amsterdam, by Ian McEwan. Here is a brief synopsis (thanks to B&N):

On a chilly February day, two old friends meet in the throng outside a crematorium to pay their last respects to Molly Lane. Both Clive Linley and Vernon Halliday had been Molly's lovers in the days before they reached their current eminence. Clive is Britain's most successful modern composer; Vernon is editor of the quality broadsheet The Judge. Gorgeous, feisty Molly had had other lovers, too, notably Julian Garmony, foreign secretary, a notorious right-winger tipped to be the next prime minister. In the days that follow Molly's funeral, Clive and Vernon will make a pact with consequences neither has foreseen. Each will make a disastrous moral decision, their friendship will be tested to its limits, and Julian Garmony will be fighting for his political life. And why Amsterdam? What happens there to Clive and Vernon is the most delicious climax of a novel brimming with surprises.

The second Booker Prize winner you suggested here was Possession, by A.S. Byatt. Here is a synopsis (courtesy of Amazon.com):

"Literary critics make natural detectives," says Maud Bailey, heroine of a mystery where the clues lurk in university libraries, old letters, and dusty journals. Together with Roland Michell, a fellow academic and accidental sleuth, Maud discovers a love affair between the two Victorian writers the pair has dedicated their lives to studying: Randolph Ash, a literary great long assumed to be a devoted and faithful husband, and Christabel La Motte, a lesser-known "fairy poetess" and chaste spinster. At first, Roland and Maud's discovery threatens only to alter the direction of their research, but as they unearth the truth about the long-forgotten romance, their involvement becomes increasingly urgent and personal. Desperately concealing their purpose from competing researchers, they embark on a journey that pulls each of them from solitude and loneliness, challenges the most basic assumptions they hold about themselves, and uncovers their unique entitlement to the secret of Ash and La Motte's passion.

A third Booker Prize winner (this one of my suggestions from an earlier post) was Last Orders, by Graham Swift. A synopsis (thanks B&N):

Graham Swift's first novel since the highly acclaimed Ever After is a subtle yet deeply felt exploration of the ways in which friendship and love are shaped by the past and by fate. At its center is a group of men, friends since the Second World War, whose lives revolve around work, family, the racetrack, and their favorite pub. Now, the death of one of them, and the survivors' task of driving their friend's ashes from London to the seaside town where they'll be scattered, compels them to take stock. Through conversation and memory they trace the paths they have followed by choice and by accident: through war and its aftermath, through the dramas of their family lives and of their shifting relationships with one another.

Our fourth and final Booker Prize winning selection for consideration when we vote June 20-23 (and commence reading July 1) is Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha by Roddy Doyle. Here is the B&N synopsis:

It is 1968. Patrick Clarke is ten. He loves George Best, Geronimo, and the smell of his hot water bottle. He hates zoos, kissing, and the boys from the Corporation houses. He can't stand his little brother Sinbad. He wants to be a missionary like Father Damien, and he coerces the McCarthy twins and Willy Hancock into playing lepers. He never picks the scabs off his knees before they're ready. Kevin is his best friend. Their names are all over Barrytown, written with sticks in wet cement. They play football, knickknack, jumping to the bottom of the sea. They shoplift. Robbing Football Monthly means four million years in purgatory. But a good confession before you died and you'd go straight to heaven. Paddy wants to know why no one jumped in for him when Charles Leavy had been going to kill him. He wants to stop his da arguing with his ma. He's confused: he sees everything, but he understands less and less.

Read most of ' Possession' and all of 'Last Orders' - Possession is a superior read and could equally be enjoyed by men as well as woman. There is so much Literature alluded to, it is a tutorial as well as, a mystery and a surge for the top among academics who are keeping research a secret, a race for museum quailty materials to be purchased before the cost is prohibitive to be included in the holdings of competing Universities, on top of which is a love story lurking between the chapters.

Last Orders reminded me of an English working class version of that movie from several years ago where 4 New York friends jam into a small car, talk of everyday as they meet to attend the funeral of a friend. The wife (Ellan May) in black, in her apartment prior to the funeral, solicits one of the men (George Segal) la la la. Last Orders has a few more plots, two generations and a pub visited in every chapter but, to me not much 'wonderful' or memorable drama.

I'm caught between Amsterdam and Possession.

Barbara, they sound like the pick of the four to me, too. I tried that Paddy Clark thing and found it was not my thing. If I can't stay awake, then it ain't worth the effort!

SarahT, thanks, I had not heard of that one. And let me tell you, our LARRY IS a prince among men! Thank you so much for posting the synopses [synopsises?]--very helpful.

Thanks for the nice comments. It is always a joy to help whereever possible. This is truly a team effort and it is the contributions of everyone that makes things happen here.

Sarah, the first and fourth book sound good to me from the synopsis but appreciate the comments from both Barbara and Jeryn on the books they have read and their reactions to them. Whatever book among these four that is selected should make a good beginning for the Prized Fiction discussion.

Larry

Sarah, you have discovered right off, Larry is a "peach"!!!

Listen, the Last Orders really appealed to me as my head is back in WWII these days with the Good War discussion. I find anything connected with it fascinating...although Barbara wasn't too enthusiastic...I think it would be a great tie-in with that discussion!

Joan, there really isn't much about the war in the story. They are pals because they are from the same area of London and drink together at the same pub every day. One guy fondly remembers how the other took him under his wing in North Africa but no real war story or really vet story.

It has some complicated relationships because of a boy that is taken in and raised and later, after the war, as a grown young man, he becomes one of these pals and some feel cheated because of a land deal after the war that benefits this young man. Another's daughter moves to Australia and his loss is wrapped up the lecherous eyes he had for his daughter and another's wife has a secret affair with one of the pals. The dead man had a daughter that he never visited because of her mental deformity. His wife refuses to attend the funneral.

They all care for each other almost out of habit in addition to a few long ago memories and their shared pride in being a part of the Smithfield market that is no more. There is lots of driving, stopping to drink and piss, individual inner conversations weaving the present with memories, jealousy and quarrelling, older men starring at their own mortality and middle age 'health'.

Boy, what richness. I think I'd go with the one with all the literary allusions for the simple reason that I need to learn all I can and I've heard nothing but good about it.

Amsterdam looks good, too, tho. Would be happy with any of them, what fun to actually be reading a BOOKER!

Ginny

For what it's worth, here's my take on the nominees (I've read all but Amsterdam).

Possession is the best of the three, but it is a very dense, "hard" read. AS Byatt is a great writer - if you've read Iris Murdoch or Anthony Burgess you'll have an idea of what she's like. She also wrote Angels & Insects, which was made into an excellent, very quirky film.

Last Orders is a much easier book to read, but it's quite moving. It is not linear in its narrative - pieces of the whole picture come in in what is initially rather confusing fashion. As the story starts to come together it is very rewarding and moving.

Paddy Clarke is also a "hard" read. I liked it, but not as much as the other two. It is written from a child's perspective; his is a life of hardship so it's not an uplifting book. I actually liked "The Woman Who Walked Into Doors," Doyle's subsequent book, better.

Sarah, this was your idea, is there ONE above ALL books that you really really want to read? Didn't you say you wanted to read Amsterdam ?

OR???

Ginny

'Amsterdam' sounds great to me.

Ginny - you are so perceptive!! I was going to wait til the voting, but Yes, it's true, Amsterdam is my choice because I haven't read it yet. I'd read Possession again too - it's actually one of the few books I own (I use the library for virtually all my reading and always have, but I bought Possession when AS Byatt was in town and she signed it).

Oh God Sarah - I am so jealous - she signed it! O my God Sarah.

I know, Barbara, it was such a thrill. She is a remarkably unassuming, warm, approachable woman. I think I've told this story but anyway . . . She was one of my father's favorites. He kept a list of everything he read, with a key next to it indicating how much he liked the novel. I made a list of all his "pluses" (marked by "+") and have been reading it ever since. I mentioned this to AS when I met her, and she was very enthusiastic about this inter-generational reading list!

I will vote for Amsterdam. Read it during the winter. Much to provoke discussion I think. Saw several tv interviews with author but have forgotten details.

God of Small Things is a fascinting book. Very intricate in the weaving of the tale. The evil, the personalities and possiblities for humor and good are scattered thruout.

Thanks, MarjV. Yes, that's another Booker winner that hadn't been nominated here but was supposed to be a wonderful book. What do you say if we put it on our list of nominees for our August read?

Sarah: I'll go for Possession, followed by Amsterdam. maybe we could add the votes, 4 pts for #1, 3 for #2, etc., and pick the one with the highest total? I will probably read both Possession and Amsterdam, and I suppose that is the ultimate purpose, to find good books to read. But I so enjoy the comments of others. All of you see more deeply than I and I learn so much by reading what you say. It is interesting to see you comment on the "August" selection. Are you anticipating that we will read a new book each month? That will be hard for me, as I am already committed to reading Science and History in July, and we are reading Lucia in the London tour, followed by Bryson's new one. Also, Poetry may take off again any day, and I have to try to revive Women. (It is my project for July 4 weekend, don't tell anyone, I want to suprise them.) Then there is my usual mystery and science fiction "light" reading, always ongoing. I was hoping for more time for such interesting books as Possession and Amsterdam, she whined, annoyingly.

Hi everyone - remember to vote on one of our four Booker prize winners between June 20-23.

Your choices:

Amsterdam by Ian McEwan

Possession by AS Byatt

Last Orders by Graham Swift

Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha by Roddy Doyle

Each is described in a separate post above.

Jackie - you make a VERY good point about selecting an August book. Possession, for one, is a very long book and may take more than a month to get through (I lent it to a friend recently and it took him about 2 months!). So why don't we play it by ear.

What does everyone else think?

Note - even if you haven't posted here yet, please vote on our July selection!!!!

Welcome

Am I the first to vote? I feel so privileged! I'll vote for Amsterdam. Why? Just because!

That's as good a reason as any, Jeryn!

Yes, that is good. Do place God of Small Things on August list.

And I vote for Amsterdam.

SarahT I am voting for Amsterdam based on the descriptions you provided above.

I would suggest we retain flexibility in the time frame for the book. Perhaps the minimum time could be a month and if the discussion is still active continue on for another couple of weeks or whatever is needed. If you see the discussion is winding down, then we can move to the next book. Perhaps we can choose the next book in this discussion while we discuss the current book in its separate discussion. Just some suggestions.

Larry

Yes, Larry, let's keep this discussion as the place to select upcoming reads. I also agree that we'll play it by ear on timing. Thanks, as always.

MarjV - yes, God of Small Things goes on the list for next time. It's another one I haven't read but want to. It was # 1 on our SF Bay Area best seller list for weeks and weeks, but now that some time has passed maybe I'll be able to get a copy at the library

'Amsterdam' sounds good to me. When do we start?

I'd like to read Amsterdam. It got great reviews and sounded very interesting. Picking a book for two months at a time sounds like a good idea and would help members who are away from home a lot, like I have been. They could get the books a long time ahead and get started wherever they are. June

We'll start very slowly on July 1.

Another new member who is having trouble registering sent me an e-mail voting as follows:

Thanks so much for the message but I still can't get in to register. My vote is for Amsterdam and I look forward to it. Many thanks, again. Louis

Although it sounds like we'll be reading AMSTERDAM I'll vote for POSSESSION, mainly because of all the nominees this is the only one I already have in my book collection. I haven't read it yet because the one time I attempted it several years ago I had trouble getting into it. Maybe the years have matured me to the point that I'm now ready for it.

Prissy - I too have only Possession in my collection! It is a hard book, but also very rewarding. I lent it to a friend from work and daily he would bemoan his fate trying to read it - but he also loved it at the same time!

Hi - When will you be posting the chosen book?

And listening to your few comments on Possession I will need to look at that novel. I read one this past winter that had a similar type of plot......will need to look through my book notes. I have been keeping a few thoughts of most books on 4 X 6 cards. Fun to look back or find something and it triggers a few thoughts.

MarjIV: Interesting that you make your notes on 4x6 cards. I did that in college. I'm thinking of setting of a computer database with my readings and my notes. Someone else mentioned that once, sort of like a journal of the books they had read. One thing about using the computer: it is so easy to search the database, and sort by different elements (author, or date, or publisher, etc.).

Today is the last day to vote on our July read! I'll get the results up tomorrow.

So if you haven't voted - please come on in. If some of you have just been reading posts without posting yet, feel free to vote too! You are all welcome here.

Sarah, I was thinking of Final Orders, but can see the choice here...so will choose Amsterdam (because someone hinted Possession is difficult...and it's summer....

I to would like join in it looks like Amsterdam for me too

The votes are in and the winner by a mile is Ian McEwan's Amsterdam. It had 9 votes; Possession had 2 votes. Last Orders and Paddy Clarke were shut out - but maybe they'll be winners another time.

Thanks to all of you who voted. Now go forth and find the book. Larry - would you open up our Amsterdam discussion now. Folks, the discussion will not take place here (this discussion will remain a generic "Prized Fiction" area), but in a new B&L discussion bearing the title "Amsterdam."

Welcome all - and those of you who did not get a chance to vote, or are shy about commenting - come on in too - the water's fine!!!

SarahT--Your wish is my command (LOL) I did establish the discussion for our first book in Prized Fiction. Just click on the following:

Amsterdam

Larry

Thank you my dear prince!

Since I am brand new to SeniorNet I am looking forward to dipping my toes into this discussion. Haven't been involved in any book group that really mashes ideas around such as I saw while scanning thru the Geish group.

MarjV, you will LOVE our SN book groups! We tells it likes we sees it!! Welcome and hope you stay!

Hi Sarah ----- could we choose the book for August by around the 20th of July. That would give about 10 days to buy or locate the chosen novel.

Marj, you are a mind reader. I was just thinking about that last night!

We can begin the nomination process right now. I would like to nominate Charming Billy by Alice McDermott, which won the National Book Award for 1998.

CHARMING BILLY sounds good to me also. Read it a couple of books back and enjoyed it. Lots of discussion elements in it too.

Sounds OK to me. I am reading Amsterdam, in fact nearly done. This is going to be SOOOOOO interesting, seeing how everyone reacts to THIS NOVEL!!!!!

Jeryn - we've begun discussing Amsterdam - come on in!

I'm not nominating this book, just commenting on it. The Novel Prize winner --- "Blindness" by Saramago. I heard a discussion on CBC radio this morning. My what a difficult and strange book. www.amazon.com has reviews and synopsis. I don't know when I will want to read it.....sometime I know.

Nominating "God of Small Things" for August. I think I already said that. But maybe we need something really light considering how hot the country has already been......and this is just the beginning of July.

Cheers!

MarjV - yes, I believe you did nominate it. I'll be getting ALL of the August nominees up into the heading in the next few days.

Hi folks. Since I was away on vacation, I was a tad slow getting the nominees up into the heading (they are there now). Barring any others, I suggest we vote on these during the period July 26-29, and begin reading our selection on AUGUST 15.

If you have other nominees, please post them here, and I'll put them into the heading too.

As you can see in the heading, I have left last month's nominees up (all Booker prize-winners) and added The God of Small Things, Felicia's Journey and Charming Billy, your other nominees.

I think we have a great list of books from which to choose, and I hope you'll all vote July 26-29 and join us in reading the winning book on August 15.

Cheers - Sarah

How do we vote? My choice is CHARMING BILLY. Neva

My vote--Charming Billy

My vote goes to CHARMING BILLY mainly because, with school beginning by the time we'll be discussing this book, it would be easier for me to participate in a discourse on a book I've already read. I think that it would lend itself well to an in-depth debate with all of you here.

Is it too late to vote for "Charming Billy?"

Lorrie

My vote is for 1. Last Orders 2. Paddy Clarke

I've read the others, and they are all worthwhile and also enjoyable. June

You're all voting just perfectly. Yes, vote here through 7/29.

Charming Billy. I'm on vacation next week and already have it to read - regardless.

I'd like to vote for Charming Billy (2nd choice = Possession)

I really want to read Possession, by A.S. Byatt But, I would rather not read it in August. I hope - I hope - I hope we could do it in September - Charming Billy sounds fine and I believe we would enjoy sharing the read.

I will vote for Charming Billy....and it is in paperback I see at Amazon.com.

One more day to vote. Charming Billy is the clear leader at this point, so speak up in hordes if you have other preferences!!!

I had an e-mail from Barbara P. as follows:

"I vote for the book by A.S. Byatt"

I'm torn, but I think I'll vote for Charming Billy too.

Any other voters? Today's your last day.

By the way, Ed Z, if you're around, I picked up Felicia's Journey yesterday. It's quite good. (Ed nominated this book awhile back)

Looks like I am late, but Charming Billy, followed by Possession in September sounds good to me. I especially like paperbacks. People who use the library have not had to pay my horrendous fines, so I might as well buy the books up front.

Our August read will be Charming Billy, by Alice McDermott. The vote was:

10 for Charming Billy

1 for Last Orders

1 for Possession (also had a number of second place votes)

We'll start our discussion on August 15.

Pick up your copy and come on over to the discussion bearing the Charming Billy name (I'll have it created in the next few days and put a clickable here).

Thanks all for your participation.

To click over to the Charming Billy discussion, which starts 8/15, see the clickable in the header above (just to the right of the prize ribbon). See you there!

I know we've only just begun discussing Charming Billy, but feel free to nominate September's book (which we'll begin discussing around 9/15) throughout the month of August. The current nominees are up in the heading.

Your only criteria are that the book be a work of fiction, and a prize-winner or nominee. Non-US prizes are welcome too.

I realize that ALL of our current nominees are British. Now part of that was by design, because we decided to have our first book be a Booker prize-winner. But we need some American award-winners/nominees here, too! Suggestions?

How about a short story collection: Ship Fever and Other Stories by Andrea Barrett - Winner of The National Book Award, 1996.

From Publisher's Weekly:
The quantifiable truths of science intersect with the less easily measured precincts of the heart in these eight seductively stylish tales. In the graphic title novella, a self-doubting, idealistic Canadian doctor's faith in science is sorely tested in 1847 when he takes a hospital post at a quarantine station flooded with diseased, dying Irish immigrants fleeing the potato famine. The story, which deftly exposes English and Canadian prejudice against the Irish, turns on the doctor's emotions, oscillating between a quarantined Irish woman and a wealthy Canadian lady, his onetime childhood playmate. In ``The English Pupil,'' Swedish botanist Carolus Linnaeus, who brought order to the natural world with his system of nomenclature, battles the disorder of his own aging mind as he suffers from paralysis and memory loss at age 70. In ``The Behavior of the Hawkweeds,'' a precious letter drafted by Austrian monk Gregor Mendel, who discovered the laws of heredity, reverberates throughout the narrator's marriage to her husband, an upstate New York geneticist. Barrett (The Forms of Water) uses science as a prism to illuminate, in often unsettling ways, the effects of ambition, intuition and chance on private and professional lives. (Jan.)

Sounds great to me. It might take us more than a month to discuss several stories, but so be it!

Just to mix things up, I'd like to nominate a National Book Award runner-up, this time from 1998: Kaaterskill Falls, by Allegra Goodman:

Kaaterskill is the tiny town in upstate New York where Orthodox summer people and Yankee year-rounders live side by side from June through August. It is the summer of 1976, and Elizabeth Shulman, a devout follower of Rav Elijah Kirshner and the mother of five daughters, is restless. Across the street, Andras Melish is drawn to Kaaterskill by his adoring older sisters, the only members of his family to survive the Holocaust. Comforted, yet crippled by his sisters' love, Andras cannot overcome the ambivalence he feels toward his own children and his beautiful young wife. At the top of the hill, Rav Kirshner is coming to the end of his life, and he struggles to decide which of his sons should succeed him: the pious but stolid Isaiah or the brilliant but worldly Jeremy. Behind the scenes, alarmed as his beloved Kaaterskill is overdeveloped by Michael King, the local real estate broker, Judge Miles Taylor keeps an old secret in check, biding his time . . .

I would propose that we vote from among the current nominees, and begin reading the next Prized Fiction selection on October 10.

Let's vote September 7-10. You may nominate books until September 6. We already have some wonderful nominees in the heading.

I'm reading Felicia's Journey and cannot put it down. A wonderful recommendation by our own Ed Zivitz. There are several others on the list I'm very interested in discussing with you as well.

Your choices thus far:

Possession (AS Byatt)

Last Orders (Graham Swift)

Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha (Roddy Doyle)

The God of Small Things (Arundati Roy)

Felicia's Journey (William Trevor)

Ship Fever and Other Stories (Andrea Barrett)

Kaaterskill Falls (Allegra Goodman)

I believe I'll vote for Felicia's Journey (William Trevor) because I know somebody sharp who is reading it who can't put it down, that commends itself to me. The eternal quest for a "good book." Of course the Irish theme may be redundant.

Ginny

I really feel the need to set aside for awhile all things Irish. This must be the decade of the Irish and the books are all beginning to blend together in my mind.

Want to read Byatt's so much therefore, for this month I will vote for Possession as my first choice. And if there is not enough interested then my second choice would be Kaaterskill Falls by Allegra Goodman.

....Ship Fever (story collection)... Perhaps you could choose 4 of the collection to be discussed over a month's time IF this book is chosen.

Marj

Any final nominations?? If not, let the voting begin (those who've already voted - take heart - your votes too shall be counted).

Lurkers, newbies - you too are WELCOME WELCOME WELCOME! Come on in and vote - even if you don't comment, you can read along with us. Won't it be nice to read along with a book of your own choosing?!

Please come on in and vote!! Your choices are in the heading.

I vote for Felicia's Journey.

FYI: A film version of Felicia's Journey has been made starring Bob Hoskins.

The film has been selected to open the gala Toronto Film Festival and should be released in the U.S. in November.

To anyone who is concerned about the book being "too much Irish",I can say that it's beautifully written with elegant prose with a large dose of tension that makes one desire to keep turning the pages.

I agree, Ed. Great book. Hoskins as Hilditch - perfect casting.

Any other votes???

oooh, tough choices. Ship Fever (have it, read it a looong time ago, loved it, love to revisit). Felicia's Journey also sounds good--my 2nd choice.

Slowly but surely the votes are dripping in.

Any others? - you have today and tomorrow left to vote!!

I have tabulated the vote, and the results are as follows:

Felicia's Journey: 2

Ship Fever: 2

Possession: 3

(nb: Barbara P. and oui2 e-mailed me their votes for Possession)

That doesn't count my vote. It was a tough choice but I think I would have voted for Kaaterskill Falls.

Hence, Possession is the winner by a hair.

We'll commence our discussion on October 10.

In the meantime, I'll be on vacation; see you when I return!!

Love -- Sarah

This is the perfect fall read - a few rainy days is all it will take - or a long walk among the turning leaves and then settle in with a book and cup of hot tea.

I started 'Possession' last winter and only read a forth of it, till the 'Green Knight' consumed me. It is a bit of a mystery, a very civilized book so far.

I have the paperback and the painting "The Beguiling of Merlin" is on the cover. One of the lacy ladies in rich earthy tones with flowing hair from the Raphaels.

Disgrace by J.M. Coetzee
Fasting, Feasting by Anita Desai
Headlong by Michael Frayn
Our Fathers by Andrew O'Hagan
The Map of Love by Ahdaf Soueif
The Blackwater Lightship by Colm Tóibín

Beginning October 10, join us for a discussion of AS Byatt's Booker prize winner, Possession: A Romance. There is a description in the heading, above. Click on Books & Literature, and on the book entitled Possession in the book stack.

You should have no problem finding the book in your library. It's also out in paperback.

Please join us on October 10 - and tell your friends.

Welcome!!

Charles, I've been wanting to read Michael Frayn's book. When will the prize be selected?

I believe it's the last week of this month, Sarah.

Oh, that's good. Maybe we can read the 1999 winner after Possession (if folks want this, of course). Thanks for the info.

Sarah I really hope y'all consider Günter Grass' pultzer prise winning book that will be available in english in November. I beleive it is called The Century Especially after reading MM last spring I feel we have a little background now to the German history. As I remember that discussion touched on some research showing the German's were alway conserned that their territory would not feed and house all their citizens and therefore, Germany believed it needed to enlarge their historical borders that included Poland in the First and Second Reichts. Günter Grass was born in Poland and coscripted into the war while his family was forced to move west back to Germany. He sems to have a platform that speaks about German guilt and the German and Polish differences. I would be most interested in reading the work that received the Pulitzer.

I've just purchased a copy of his The Call of the Toad Very readable satire envolving the new love between a middle age couple, in the cemetery business. He, the German, exiled after WW2 provides cash, know-how and she the Pole, provides the human warmth and political fervor. Many posting in books shared that they have seen the movie of his novel The Tin Drum another satire illustrating the affects of war.

Günter Grass has been refered to as a renaissance man. He plays music, is an illustrator, graphic artist, writes poems, plays, essays and novels.

Barbara - The new Gunter Grass sounds interesting - and very marketable.....I read that it's 100 tales for each year of the century.

Barbara - I will add the new Grass book to our list of nominations.

National Book Awards (Fiction) Nominees. Winners to be announced November 17th:

House of Sand and Fog by Andre Dubus III
Plainsong by Kent Haruf
Hummingbird House by Patricia Henley
Waiting by Ha Jin
Who Do You Love by Jean Thompson

The Booker Prize to be announced October 25th

This book Plainsong is getting so many accolades - and so much press in general - that I feel compelled to nominate it. I've had Haruf's The Tie That Binds on my "to read" list for months and months; has anyone read anything of his?

Incidentally, the Possession discussion may last well into the holiday season, so I can't tell when we'll be voting on our next selection, but stay tuned.

Thank you Charlie for the prize updates.

The Booker Prize winner will be announced today. It's exciting!! I'll keep you posted on the winner.

Please also note that I've added two new nominees up above, 1999 Nobel Laureate Gunter Grass' upcoming book My Century, and 1999 National Book Award nominee Plainsong, by Kent Haruf.

The Possession discussion should last through November. Please join us there if you're so inclined.

See you back here in November to select our next book.

Sarah:Coetzee has won for the second time. Looks like he now has proven himself to OUR readers....

J.M. Coetzee has become the only author in history to win the prestigious Booker Prize twice. Honored for his apocalyptic "Life and Times of Michael K." in 1983, Coetzee wins this time around for a searing novel about shame and responsibility in the new South Africa. The much-praised "Disgrace" concerns itself with history both personal and political, as professor David Lurie struggles with amorous scandal, his country's troubled past, and last but not least, the plight of unwanted animals. You can pre-order "Disgrace" through amazon.com.

about "Disgrace":

David Lurie is hardly the hero of his own life, or anyone else's. At 52, the protagonist of "Disgrace" is at the end of his professional and romantic game, and seems to be deliberately courting disaster. Long a professor of modern languages at Cape Town University College, he has recently been relegated to adjunct professor of communications at the same institution, now pointedly renamed Cape Technical University. Although he devotes hours of each day to his new discipline, he finds its first premise, as enunciated in the Communications 101 handbook, preposterous. "Human society has created language in order that we may communicate our thoughts, feelings and intentions to each other." His own opinion, which he does not air, is that the origins of speech lie in song, and the origins of song in the need to fill out with sound the overlarge and rather empty human soul. Twice married and twice divorced, his magnetic looks on the wane, David rather cruelly seduces one of his students, and his conduct unbecoming is soon uncovered. In his eighth novel, J.M. Coetzee might have been content to write a searching academic satire. But in "Disgrace" he is intent on much more, and his art is as uncompromising as his main character, though infinitely more complex. Refusing to play the public-repentance game, David gets himself fired--a final gesture of contempt. Now, he thinks, he will write something on Byron's last years. Not empty, unread criticism, "prose measured by the yard," but a libretto. To do so, he heads for the Eastern Cape and his daughter's farm. In her mid-20s, Lucy has turned her back on city sophistications: with five hectares, she makes her living by growing flowers and produce and boarding dogs. "Nothing," David thinks, "could be more simple." But nothing, in fact, is more complicated--or, in the new South Africa, more dangerous. Far from being the refuge he has sought, little is safe in Salem. Just as David has settled into his temporary role as farm worker and unenthusiastic animal-shelter volunteer, he and Lucy are attacked by three black men. Unable to protect his daughter, David's disgrace is complete. Hers, however, is far worse. There is much more to be explored in Coetzee's painful novel, and few consolations. It would be easy to pick up on his title and view "Disgrace" as a complicated working-out of personal and political shame and responsibility. But the author is concerned with his country's history, brutalities, and betrayals. Coetzee is also intent on what measure of soul and rights we allow animals. After the attack, David takes his role at the shelter more seriously, at last achieving an unlikely home and some measure of love. In Coetzee's recent Princeton lectures, "The Lives of Animals," an aging novelist tells her audience that the question that occupies all lab and zoo creatures is, "Where is home, and how do I get there?" David, though still all-powerful compared to those he helps dispose of, is equally trapped, equally lost. "Disgrace" is almost willfully plain. Yet it possesses its own lean, heartbreaking lyricism, most of all in its descriptions of unwanted animals. At the start of the novel, David tells his student that poetry either speaks instantly to the reader--"a flash of revelation and a flash of response"--or not at all. Coetzee's book speaks differently, its layers and sadnesses endlessly unfolding. --Kerry Fried.

The Prized Fiction discussions will probably be combined with the BC Online discussion in 2000 so that we discuss approximately two prize winners during the year, and in other months discuss best sellers, non-fiction, biography, short stories and the like.

I look forward to this schedule very much. Stay tuned!

Happy Thanksgiving to you all.

Much love,

Sarah

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, Sarah, and to everybody, I think we will have a blast in 2000 following Charlies innovative suggestions for reading. I hope so, anyway.

I am sure looking forward to it, scanned the list of the NYTimes bestsellers yesterday with dismay,this will be interesting!

Ginny

a delightful book, hated to put it down, by Tracy Kidder. Takes place, believe it or not, in a nursing home. Not depressing as you might expect, full of gentle humor, with characters you smile at as you get to know them. Addresses the "universal condition".

Margi38, Welcome, Welcome!! We ahre delighted to see you here!

I read OLD FRIENDS and thought it was quite good! Have you read his HOUSE, now that one really spoke to me. I'm dithering about his new one about the town in, is it, Mass? Have you read it? They say it's quite good. Anyway, THIS discussion will soon be jumping as we start voting on a prize winner for February in the Book Club Online please join us here, there and everywhere! We are so glad you came by!

Ginny

Margi38 - it's great to have you, and I hope you'll help us select our prize-winning fiction selection for February. Happy holidays, and please stay tuned.

In February, 2000, we will join with BC Online 2000 and read a prize winner. See the list of previous nominees above for ideas for our February selection, or nominate your own prize winner!

Sarah - I hate to nominate another book - I'd love to read My Century or a number of the others already nominated- but there's been some very good discussion elsewhere here about Waiting by Ha Jin...So.....Can I? Huh? Huh??

Most impressed with the Lehrer interview of Ha Jin on PBS Newshour. To become that capable in another language...wow...I'm impressed. As he said, it would be a very different book if Waiting were written in his original language, Chinese. Yes, I also would like to see Waiting considered as well as, the Günter Grass winner My Century. The recent articles and interviews I've read and heard have amazed me as to how the German people are aware of their role in the twentieth century and how they have become so humble and strong in their values that such a thing would not happen again emanating from their country.

I too saw the Ha Jin interview on McNeil-Lehrer and Waiting sure sounds like a winner. I'll add it up top.

In February, 2000, we will read a prize-winner with the BC Online 2000 group here on SeniorNet. If you'd like to read one of the books other readers have nominated (see list in heading), post that information here. If you'd like to nominate another prize-winning novel, please do so here or in the BC Online 2000 discussion.

If you're confused, let me know.

Happy New Year to all of you.

Much love,

Sarah

I hope that "Waiting" is voted as the February book. I liked that same interview on TV so much I ordered the book, to try to squeeze the reading of it in between computer time and cleaning up after the holidays.

Lorrie

Let's all try to see and hear this and see if we want WAITING I know I do!

UPCOMING AUTHOR CHATS

******************** Ha Jin on Waiting Tuesday, January 4th at 7pm ET

Tune in Then If you haven't yet, you shouldn't wait any longer to read Ha Jin's 1999 National Book Award winning tale of one man's struggle with innermost longing and centuries-old custom in contemporary China. Find out more about this surprise winner -- in a chat worth waiting for -- when Ha Jin joins us to discuss WAITING.

Ginny

I vote for Plainsong. I had this book in my hand at Borders, (I was on my lunch hour), and the line was so long I had to put it back. But this book gets my vote.

Giovanna

GIOVANNA - Thanks for your vote. That was almost nominated LAST month sp there is some sentiument for that one. I'm going to vote for MY CENTURY by Gunter Grass. Two reasons. I like the 'concept' and I want to see how that works. Two: For our NEXT month we'll Be nominating an AUTHOR in order to read TWO of his works in MARCH and in a suceeding month. If we all like the Grass, I might nominate him (Tin Drum has been mentioned in earlier conversations) - he certainly has a body of work that deserves attention. Might make a nice segue. So there's my vote. How about evryone else's???

I caught the Ha Jin interview and am going to vote for WAITING I believe, tho I will happily read anything you all select.

Copied the interview and was very impressed with him, tho the interviewer was awful, you'll see, I'll paste it here before long, just awful!

Ha Jin lives within about 1 1/2 hours from me, that surprised me, he must be at Athens at the U of Ga.

At any rate, I LOVE this way of doing the choices and will read anything next with glee, I love this!

Ginny

I work at the Folger Shakespeare Library in DC, home of the Pen/Faulkner awards...during the year, various authors donate their time and present readings from their works to help support this award, which is not too shabby - a $15,000 prize each spring. I came across this site while searching for this years schedule. Thought you might find it interesting, although it could replicate the sites listed above.

Book Awards

Boy that's some bunch of sites, Joan! What time of year do they do the Pen Faulkners?

I wish there were a site for Literary Gatherings!

Thanks!

Ginny

That IS a good site, Joan. Ginny, can you move it up into the heading, at the head of the list of other prize winner sites?

I've been home with the flu and slept through what promised to be a reallly good Ha Jin interview on The World, the BBC radio program that comes on our public radio station every afternoon at 2 p.m. Did anyone catch that? I seem to recall (in my slumber) that he talked a lot about his decision to write only in English, although he grew up under Chairman Mao.

I'm torn; this is a really good list. I'm reading The God of Small Things right now and it's breathtakingly good. I've heard only raves about Waiting. Ditto Plainsong. Oh, how to choose!!!

I'll vote for Waiting.

Truly a tough choice!

Sarah, I'm so glad you're back and so sorry you've been sick!! I only heard the B&N interview which I copied but he said the same thing there as well, maybe he has a group of questioners follow him everywhere, it was very interesting, and here he is only about an hour and a half from me if I understood him correctly!!!

I've got the book and it sounds wonderful, but they all do!

I don't think you can go wrong reading a good book any time!

So glad you're back, we sure have missed you!

Ginny

Everybody is sick!!! Come on, Sarah, get better! This is no way to start the new year!!! That's my way of saying, "Happy New Year", Sarah!

Ginny the Pen/Faulkner award is presented in May, but the readings go on all year. The readings are great and cheap (affordable- $15.00)!...

I found this year's schedule, but it only goes til May and Aurelie wasn't at the Folger today, so I couldn't ask her about the schedule for next fall...

But, scan all the way through this site, and you'll see just how good they are!

Folger readings to support Pen/Faulkner Prize

I can't remember if I voted already- so #1 Waiting and Plainsong a close second.

CURRENT VOTE TALLY

Waiting by Ha Jin…….4
My Century by Gunter Grass…….1
Plainsong by Kent Haruf…….1

VOTE THROUGH JAN 15!!

Oh my I want to read and discuss all three - this must be the hardest choice I can remember in books. Well at least we are down to the three I would love to read and therefore, what ever wins will be great. Just now, as much as Waiting sounds like a winning noval, I'm still Gaisha'd out with eastern thinking. Haven't read any Günter Grasse and I've been hearing many guests from Germany on PBS that sound so un-German with a real sense of owning their twentieth century history. That to me is unique and I would love to read an author as Grasse who is coming from that mindset. Yep, that is it - my vote is for My Century

LATEST RESULTS

Waiting by Ha Jin…….4
My Century by Gunter Grass…….2
Plainsong by Kent Haruf…….1

VOTE THROUGH JAN 15!!

Hello, after much consideration, and indecision, decided to vote for Waiting by Ha Jin. The book sounds interesting. Sariq

You have selected this year's NATIONAL BOOK AWARD winner, Waiting by Ha Jin. Discussion will start about Feb 7th.

Wonderful news. Now to get it at the library! (I cheated and put it on hold about a week ago!)

Looking forward to it!

Boy! That Felicia's Journey sounds like an interesting book. I'm going to keep my eyes open for that one.

Pat

Pat - I read Felicia's Journey on the suggestion of one of our readers (Ed Zivitz, I think) and I couldn't put it down. I highly recommend you check it out.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!

Welcome to this discussion. It's so good to be back and hear from you! Its been a long wait and we never gave up seeing you in here when the Books folder was repaired!!

It's great to be back. I really missed the Books! I think I'm going to be a bit creaky - out of practice - but I'd love to hear about the prize winners you're reading and what you'd recommend we read later in the year.

Do any of the books in the heading attract you? Or should we wipe them all out and start afresh?

I've read most of the books in the heading and the ones that most moved ME were The God of Small Things and Felicia's Journey. I liked The God ... so much I made all my friends read it too.

What prize winners do YOU think we should read next?

Hi Sara,

Great to have you back!

Pat

Hi Sarah T.: Good to see you. ttyl

Well, Sarah. I think you should make all your friends HERE read it too!!!

CharlieW - What a great idea! I really think people will enjoy this book. (The God of Small Things, by Arundati Roy - description in heading, above.)

Dear fellow readers: As you can probably tell, this discussion has gone a bit dormant. I'd like to revive it. It was primarily a place to nominate and vote on books we'd read on a monthly basis. However, several months ago, we "rolled" the discussion of prize winning fiction into the general BC Online discussions, leaving this forum without much to do!!!

However, there is plenty of prized fiction out there. Tell us what you have enjoyed lately. Talk about the latest nominees. Suggest books for future consideration. Shortly, I'll change the heading to reflect your suggestions.

Welcome back!

I adored Mating, by Norman Rush (1991 National Book Award winner). Courtesy of amazon.com:

Had Jane Austen been in the Peace Corps in Africa in the 1980s, Mating is the book she might have written. Set in Botswana in the days before the end of apartheid, Norman Rush's novel is, essentially, a comedy of manners played out in Austen's approved milieu: a country village. Granted, the village in question, Tsau, is a utopian society created by the great American anthropologist Nelson Denoon, and run largely by and for disenfranchised and abused African women. Still, the issue that interests Rush (and the one that fueled Austen's novels) is the age-old question of who mates with whom, and why? The unnamed narrator is a 32-year-old postgraduate student in anthropology whose dissertation has just gone south on her. Drifting around the edges of the expatriate community in Gaborone, the capital of Botswana, she first meets Denoon:

He was smiling at Kgosetlemang--the event was to be considered over with, clearly--and I could tell that his gingivae were as good as mine; which is saying a lot. I attend to my gums. People in the bush don't always attend to their oral hygiene, not to mention other niceties. There was no sign of that here. I of course am fanatical about my gums because my idea of what the movie I Wake Up Screaming is about is a woman who has to keep dating to find her soulmate and she's had to get dentures. I have very long-range anxieties.

The Shipping News by E. Annie Proulx

In this touching and atmospheric novel set among the fishermen of Newfoundland, Proulx tells the story of Quoyle. From all outward appearances, Quoyle has gone through his first 36 years on earth as a big schlump of a loser. He's not attractive, he's not brilliant or witty or talented, and he's not the kind of person who typically assumes the central position in a novel. But Proulx creates a simple and compelling tale of Quoyle's psychological and spiritual growth. Along the way, we get to look in on the maritime beauty of what is probably a disappearing way of life.

This darkly comic, wonderfully inventive work, winner of the 1993 National Book Award, transforms the lore of Newfoundland--including shipwrecks, nautical knot-tying, horrid weather and family legend--into brilliant literary art. It is the story of the rebirth of Quoyle, a hulking, inarticulate, misery-ridden widower who flees upstate New York to take up residence in Newfoundland. The island of his forebears, Newfoundland is a dreary rock in the north Atlantic beset by lousy weather. Proulx lovingly recreates this hardscrabble location in her vivid, distinctive prose and populates it with a cast of amusing, richly human characters. Quoyle, a "third-rate newspaperman," makes a hit with his "Shipping News" column, while his anguish at the loss of his faithless wife is slowly transformed by the strengthening ties that bind him to the place and to his fellow Newfoundlanders.

Sarah I've seen Shipping News in the bookstores and was hedging. It is so easy to load myself down with books, but I am glad to hear that you liked it. All of a sudden there seems to be so many seafaring stories available.

Shipping News lifted me up. It was a book I found hard to keep reading---at first---but then I caught hold of the promise of a changed life and that kept me reading. Also, by then, the writing itself had captured me. The drearinesss and foul weather and such a hard life in Newfoundland---what misery this fellow had taken on himself, and he was miserable to begin with! A book worth reading. Maybe even rereading.

Hi Sarah! Read your post in the Library and, although I'm aware you do not enjoy nonfiction, I'll post a book here - it is a Pulitizer Prize winner from (OH!OH!) - 1998 - l999, somewhere in those years. We discussed the book here on SN and it is archived - Katharine Graham's PERSONAL HISTORY. It is her autobiography and what a life! Sadness, tragedy, triumph and somewhere about my age (70 or so), this shy lady picked up the reins of the Washington Post (after her husband's suicide) and ran THE paper for a number of years until one of her sons decided it was what he wanted to do.

I mention this now as I am reading (at my daughter's house), Ben Bradlee's wonderful autobio entitled A GOOD LIFE and, if you don't recognize that name, you should. The wonderful editor of the Washington Post for years - through the Nixon scandal and resignation, plus, plus! In it he mentions Katharine Graham and talks of their wonderful friendship! Great read!

APOLOGY! Oh, gosh - I just noticed this discussion is entitled "PRIZED FICTION" - what am I thinking of? Fiction! Fiction! But I'm going to let my post stand! Haven't much time, Sarah, am doing all this typing and proofreading for my daughter - I'm her slave for a few days as she has a rush job! (My salary for this secretarial work is on a par with my salary of being a DL - certainly am not advancing in my career am I?)

I'm lucky she let me have a few minutes to look in on SN! Must run - now I know why I love retirement!

No apologies, Ella! I happen to prefer fiction, but if a little non-fiction creeps in from time to time, no problem!

Betty, your experience with The Shipping News was mine exactly! I've told a lot of people to read it - and always said that they need to stay with it until things start to turn up for Quoyle. His beginning is really pretty desperate. But it's one of the most uplifting books I've ever read.

Barbara, you MUST read it. It's one of those books you should NOT go through life without having read!

I'm going to get these beloved Prize Winners up into the heading (so DO suggest your favorites).

On the book Mating, which I know has a kind of off-putting title. My dad read it and recommended it to me. I've often met people who are in love with this book. There's just something special about it. It's probably my favorite book in the last 10 years.

Welcome back.

Ok, so it's not a prize winner. But while I was on the subject of my favorite books over the past 10 years, I had to add this one. When I went over to one of the online bookstores to get a description, a lot of the reader/reviewers said exactly what I've said about this book - one of the best I've ever read!

Weird - it was a mass market paperback. Usually those are trashy. But this book is a jewel.

Here's a description:

This is a first novel of exceptional subtlety and suspense, featuring a haunting cast of characters. Somewhat reminiscent of "Dead Poet's Society", a bit gothic, and inlaid with sophisticated psychology, it takes place on and around the campus of a small, private, Vermont liberal arts college. When Richard, a native of a small, dull California town, arrives at Hampden College to study Greek, he's startled by the changeability of the weather, the brooding skies, and brilliant autumn. Thoroughly alienated from his parents, he lies about his past, hoping to impress the tight-knit, wealthy, secretive, and tantalizingly eccentric group of classics scholars studying under the direction of influential mentor, Julian Morrow. Henry is tall, erudite, and frighteningly calculating. Francis is gay, sly, but affectionate. Bunny, an awful mooch but quite endearing, looks like Teddy Roosevelt and spouts a great deal of nonsense punctuated by exclamations of "old man" and "see here." Camilla and Charles are twins--cool, attractive, and charming. As Julian steeps his disciples in Greek thought, they become obsessed with an overwhelming desire to experience telestic madness, that is, Dionysiac frenzy. Their pursuit of this exalted, catastrophic state leads to conspiracy, subterfuge, murder, and suicide. Tartt's prose is flawless and enthralling: keyed-up, humming with detail, graced with nuance, and electric with the malevolence of self-righteous amorality and an insulated and heartless form of intelligence.

Sarah, Ella, Barbara, Betty, I've been eyeing Shipping News for a long time too. After reading the raves in this group, I immediately jumped in the car, went to Crown and bought it! I can't wait to start. While I was there, I also bought a copy of The Ladies of Covington Send Their Love by Joan Medlicott - the story of three woman who had pretty much given up and were settling for a lonely and useless retirement who rebel and "build a home for themselves and a future together." What else is everyone reading now?

Had so much fun the other evening at Borders - Found this only 200 page New book by M.C.Beaton called The fairies of Fryfam Started it and couldn't put it down. Sat with my cup of coffee and sandwich for supper and read the whole book in about 3 to 3 1/2 hours.

The book is just a delight. A soft mystery set in the Cotswelds and Norwich with a character called Agatha Raison. The play between her and her male co-slueth reminded me of a twenty-first century version of Miss Marple.

I am not a mystery freak although, I do love Mystery Theater on PBS thursday evenings. This would make a perfect Mystery Theater production. More scenery and people dialoge than grizzly events. Well the upshot, after I looked on the net I found that M.Ç. Beaton has 9 preceeding stories of this character Agatha Raison. I just got off line from ordering all 9. The author also has another detective series that is centered in Scotland.

Another book I read a few weeks ago, that I cannot stop raving about and have posted in another discussion is, Renato's Luck by Jeff Shapiro. Warm, funny, poignent, tender, noble written with a maturity of understanding, wisdom and love beyond what I would imagine from such a young author. Takes place in Tuscany among peasants in a small ancient community where the community, Renato and the others are affected by modern changes and the life changes that have always been with all families.

Susan Rose - Welcome!! Just a word of warning; stick with Shipping News past what seems like a difficult beginning, and I guarantee you'll love this book.

What else am I reading? Just finished the newest by Kazuo Ishiguro (who wrote Booker Prize winner Remains of the Day, and also The Unconsoled). The book is called When We Were Orphans. I enjoyed it, but it was far from his best (which, aptly, is Remains of the Day, although I also loved The Unconsoled).

Just started The Language of Threads, by Gail Tsukiyama. She also wrote Women of the Silk, about a girl, Pei, who was brought in to work in the silk houses of China at a young age. This is the sequel. It takes place just before and during WWII in Hong Kong.

(Incidentally, When We Were Orphans is set in the same time period in Shanghai. Just a coincidence.)

Next on my list is Nobel Prize winner Jose Saramago's Blindness. Several people have raved about it (including a friend who also loved Mating - see heading - and felt about as I did about When We Were Orphans)

And of course, I'll be reading Philip Roth's The Human Stain here on SeniorNet in September. Stay tuned for details.

Whew!

Barbara: I have put Renato's Luck on my must read list.

Don't know how I made all that red ink (I'm a bust at HTML).

Speaking of HTML, Jeryn, a wonderful SN volunteer, modernized the heading up above to include the latest recommendations. We'll expand the list as we go.

Many thanks to Jeryn - it looks great!

I do like the Block heading etc. So neat and clean looking.

White Teeth, by Zadie Smith. No prize yet, I know, but I must be destined to read this book. Seems like each thing I read lately is praising this first-time novelist. The list of who she's being compared to is ridiculously impressive. Nabokov and more. New York Times raved, as did all her other reviewers. Wish I knew more to tell.

Great job, as usual, Jeryn!

Looks nice, Sarah!

You guys are a terrible influence---had to go order 4 books online. By the way, for the book White Teeth, by Zadie Smith, Amazon.com has 13 customer reviews and 20 editorial reviews! A "serious and funny" book---I love reading that someone hasn't "laughed this hard in years."

Betty - Our local paper has a book club, and they read White Teeth recently. Probably as a consequence, the book is No. 1 on our best seller list (San Francisco Bay Area). I guess I'm going to have to add that one to my list. Tell me how you like it.

Just finished a book and it inspired a question. This book (The Language of Threads, by Gail Tsukiyama) told a great story. In that sense, it was a page turner. I'd probably read more by this author. On the other hand, there were occasional awkward turns of phrase that really distracted me.

Can a book be truly good if it tells a great story, has fascinating characters, and paints a vivid picture of the time in which it's based - but still has some flaws in the writing?

By the same token, is a book truly good if it's beautifully written, but dull?

Just a few questions to celebrate 4th of July with!

Pen/Faulkner Award

Named for William Faulkner, who used his Nobel Prize funds to create an award for young writers, and affiliated with PEN (Poets, Playwrights, Editors, Essayists and Novelists), the international writers' organization, the PEN/Faulkner Award was founded by writers in 1980 to honor their peers, and is now the largest juried award for fiction in the United States. The award judges, who are themselves writers of fiction, each read more than 250 novels and short story collections published during the calendar year before selecting five outstanding books.

2000 Winner/Nominees

Waiting by Jin, Ha --WINNER (and a book we recently read here on SN)

Night Inspector by Busch, Frederick

Amy and Isabelle by Strout, Elizabeth (loved this book)

Pu-239 and Other Russian Fantasies : A Novella and Stories by Kalfus, Ken (never heard of this one)

Siam : Or the Woman Who Shot a Man by Tuck, Lily

Has anyone read Night Inspector or even heard of Pu-239 or Siam?

Do you like English fiction? I do. Here's a list of Whitbread Award winners over the past several years. How many do you recognize?

The Whitbread Book Awards--Novel Award

1999 Music & Silence by Tremain, Rose/ Tremaine, Rose

1998 Leading the Cheers by Cartwright, Justin

1997 Quarantine by Crace, Jim

1996 Every Man for Himself by Bainbridge, Beryl

1995 The Moor's Last Sigh by Rushdie, Salman

1994 Felicia's Journey by Trevor, William

1992 Poor Things by Gray, Alasdair

1991 The Queen of the Tambourine by Gardam, Jane

1990 Hopeful Monsters by Mosley, Nicholas

1989 The Chymical Wedding by Clarke, Lindsay

1988 The Satanic Verses by Rushdie, Salman

1987 The Child in Time by McEwan, Ian

1986 An Artist of the Floating World by Ishiguro, Kazuo

Sarah: The film version of Felicia's Journey is now available on tape...Starring Bob Hoskins.

For me, a "great book" has to have outstanding narrative and that's why I suggest The Night Inspector... I don't think you'd be disappointed.

Jeepers I feel as if I have missed a LOT of good books, I just read my first piece by Salman Rushdie and he's a very good writer, I think I need to read more of his.

Here's another list, this one by Michael Cunningham, author of THE HOURS, of his favorite PUlitzer Prize Winning Fiction:

Rabbit is Rich...Updike (read that)
The Collectied Stories Katharine Anne Porter (nope).
A Death in the Family James Agee (read that)
To Kill a Mockingbird Harper Lee (saw the movie)
The Optimist's Daughter Eudora Welty(nope)
Elbow Room: StoriesMc Pherson (nope)
The Executioner's SongNorman Mailer (nope)
American Pastoral Philip ROTH!!!!!(nope)
Ironweed Kennedy (saw the movie)
The Mambo Kings Play Songs of LoveHijuelos (nope but I've got his latest one)

Looks like I need to get BUSY!!!!!

There's a LOT of good fiction out there!

ginny

Ginny - I've read about as many as you on that list - we BOTH should be ashamed of ourselves!! So many books, so little time! Don't you feel you'll NEVER read all you want to read?

Ed - thanks - you were the one who recommended Felicia's Journey many moons ago and I really loved the book, so The Night Inspector it is. Actually, it's odd to talk about loving a book as maudlin as Felicia, but it really was very intriguing. I'll have to see the movie. Did you see it? Did it live up to the book?

Someone posted in the Library about the book White Teeth that's getting a lot of press in the book world (written by a 21 year old British woman, who's being compared to the greats, including Salman Rushdie). I just watched a TV book club analyze the book for an hour - and it's the first book in I don't know how many that they all liked. I went online immediately and reserved it at my local library.

It's No. 1 on the best seller list here in San Francisco. Have any of you read it?

Ginny - you must read Roth's American Pastoral. A great read.

Interestingly, I was reading a book today about how to be a better writer (I write a lot in my work). It contained a quote from Goodbye, Columbus that was just masterful - about the protagonist holding a young woman's glasses while she dove into the pool. I'm thinking maybe we should do a Philip Roth bookfest!

I'm reading Blindness, by Jose Saramago (1998 Nobel Prize winner). It's about people who suddenly go blind due to a contagion, and the society's reaction, which includes quarantine, deprivation of food and medicine and more. It has a very Orwellian tone. It's also a page-turne

Rushdie, not Nabokov (thank you, Sarah)----I knew the minute I typed in "Nabokov" that Zadie Smith (White Teeth) was being compared to, that something didn't look right. She's being compared to Rushdie, who, by the way, has written a great review himself. Since Rushdie is known as a singular voice, no one like him, someone has written that Zadie Smith has accomplished the same.

I've ordered the book, too. What's on the schedule for September?

A Roth fest? I'll come.

Let's do one! Let's do a Roth fest, I have ordered American Pastoral which was only written in 1998, and White Teeth because of what you all said, let's do one!!!

You can't go wrong with Philip Roth, imagine, Sarah, their using that selection for a writing course, that was a great section to choose from but it's all good; the whole Goodbye Columbus is beautifully written.

I've also ordered that Blindness and feel very excited at what all is coming up!

Whee!

ginny

Betty - I'd forgotten it was you who brought up White Teeth - for all I know, they're also comparing Zadie Smith to Nabokov!

Ok - let's think about this. The Human Stain in September. American Pastoral in October. Goodbye, Columbus in November.

What do you think?

I had already planned on doing this: Reading American Pastoral and I Married a Communist prior to The Human Stain, since they are a loose "trilogy" - although they can certainly be all read independently.

....and ED are you there? - I really want to do The Night Inspector. What say?

Sarah T: I have not seen the film version of Felicia's Journey yet, but I will.

Charlie:Currently, I am innundated with reading. I would like to be involved with Night Inspector,but it would have to be later in the year.

Jeepers, if they are a trilogy, Sarah, we better get that up in the heading? Will we...how are we going to do this? Is this the Book Club Online? Will the Book Club Online want to read Blindness after they read FLU? Goodbye Columbus is a very quick read, is American Pastoral?

I Married a Communist? Back to B&N Charlie!!!

In which order? What to DO here? Nice to have decisions which need to be made, isn't it? The excitement of the possibility of a good read.

ginny

Where does Philip Roth live?

ginny

Two possible reading orders---Pastoral, Communist, Stain, in order of publication. Or---Communist of late 40s era, Pastoral 60s era, Stain present day. Am I right about Human Stain? The 90s?

Roth currently lives in Connecticut.

Betty, Charlie, Ginny, I am open to whatever order seems best, with one qualification: given that The Human Stain has been up in the Library as a Sept. 1 book for about a week, let's read that one first. Then, in keeping with Betty and Charlie's suggestion, let's read Pastoral second and Communist third. I had actually not suggested Communist initially - rather, I wanted to read Goodbye, Columbus (and still do). Where would that fit in??

American Pastoral is quite a big book - but great. Didn't like I Married a Communist nearly as much.

Blindness as BC Online in - what month - October? November? - would be fantastic. This is an incredible book.

wait...wait...don't count me in the selection of or order of....I'm just along for the ride here. Roth is one of my huge reading gaps, don't know enough about any of these to promote one way or the other. I was just glancing at Amazon.com prices, dates, reviews, etc. I did read Goodbye, Columbus eons ago and would gladly reread.

Sarah, Mating by Norman Rush, that you recommended, came in the mail today. I may have to interrupt another book to start this one. The comments, reviews---it all sounds so wonderful. And, uh, so does the book.

guffaw, chuckle

Betty - first of all - your vote counts!! Sorry, no getting out of that one!

Second - I think you'll love Mating. I've known so many people who do. And duh - why didn't I just mail you my copy??? After all, you sent me Presidential Powers (which I finished, and liked).

____________

To all readers in this discussion:

What are your favorite books WRITTEN IN THE LAST 10 YEARS?

What are your favorite prize winners/nominees?

Why do you love them?

What prize winners were overblown or, in your opinion, didn't deserve to win? Why?

Pulitzer for history, 1995, No Ordinary Time, Doris Kearns Goodwin, FDR's presidency during WWII. The author's love of history comes through in her style and meticulous research.

Pulitzer for fiction, 1992, A Thousand Acres, Jane Smiley. She managed to write of beauty (land) and horror (family) with equal facility. The silence of the land is mirrored in the family's secrets. The ambiguity of several relationships in the family is what I found so compelling---reminded me, unfortunately, of that feeling of discomfort just below the surface that you can never fully put words to. Smiley's writing is beautiful and haunting.

betty - I love Doris Kearns Goodwin. Could listen to her talk about baseball for hours. She lives in Concord (MA) where I work and I sometimes see her and hubby (Richard Goodwin - former JFK speechwriter (?) at a local restaurant/bar. Or is that bar/restaurant??

Jane Smiley ... I liked her latest book "Horse Heaven". But then I like books about horses.

I like hearing D. K. Goodwin talk, too, Charlie, (interviews, panels), so much so that I bought and loved her book on baseball, Wait Until Next Year, knowing virtually nothing about baseball. Loved all the stuff on baseball stadiums that are no more. What a cool childhood she had.

Two other favorites---both by Bill Moyers. The Language of Life: A Festival of Poets, 1995. Also, Healing and the Mind, 1993. Both were the written (and longer) forms of PBS specials.

Betty do you have the Bill Moyers Fooling with Words I just love it and I saw the TV special on PBS where the poems were read or in some cases chanted or sung. There is a woman Chinese writter-- I love every word she speaks.

Ahem - um, er, ah - how to say this without hurting feelings - hello??? Prized FICTION!!!

Loved A Thousand Acres. Just picked up her newest, Horse Heaven, today. PatW, tell me about it. I was a little shy of this book, because I really disliked her last one (Moo). Is it a serious book?

P.S. I love Doris Kearns Goodwin too. Too bad she doesn't write, um, er, ah . . . FICTION!!!

"What are your favorite books in the last ten years?"

I'm laughing, Sarah, as I remember looking at your separate questions---noticing that "prized" was a separate question from "favorite books" question, so I was feeling FREEDOM to think of favorites that weren't necessarily prize winners. Hehehe, forgot what overall category we were in. Let's see, we've got history, biography, poetry and, oh, yes, FICTION. Hey, I got one right!! And---THIS counts, don't you think---I actually had a conversation once about wishing Doris Kearns Goodwin would write a novel, since she's such a good story teller. Wishful fiction.

Betty - you are absolutely right. Ok, Miss Sarah, let's get those questions right:

To all readers in this discussion:

What are your favorite Novels WRITTEN IN THE LAST 10 YEARS?

What are your favorite Fiction prize winners/nominees?

Why do you love them?

What Fiction prize winners were overblown or, in your opinion, didn't deserve to win? Why?

____________

Feel free to discuss non-fiction. However, throw in your fiction choices first! Ahem!

As I finish Blindness, I have to say it is one of the most moving, horrifying books I've ever read.

When I read a book like this one, it is an experience that I can't imagine anyone else having. It's like my own bad dream - all mine. The idea that lots of others have read this same book is as hard to fathom as the idea that lots of others have had an identical nightmare to mine.

Browsing through the NBA winners since 1950......
I loved Walker Percy's The Moviegoer. I liked Barth's Chimera well enough but I enjoyed some of his other work better (The Sot-Weed Factor may be one of the funniest books I ever read). Gravity's Rainbow blew me away. That and Pynchon's V. I will never forget as reading experiences. From the 70's I note Going After Cacciato and Dog Soldiers, both of which left me unsatisfied. As a V-era-Vet, it's the movies thattalk to me more. The Deer Hunter is chilling. Sophie's Choice was phenomenal, as was, perhaps surprisingly, the movie. It's interesting to see that in the early 80's, the categories exploded to include hardcover and paperback fiction, first novels, etc. Marketing takes control. Then it seems they cut back. Interesting.

DeLillo's White Noise, was good - but again, I liked Mao II and Libra better. Underworld was a huge disappointment. All The Pretty Horses was teriffic. We should read some McCarthy here sometime. Great writer. I concur with The Shipping News. That book really took you away.

Looks like we've done 97-99, here. 1996 is our first miss going back in time - Andrea Barrett's Ship Fever and Other Stories.

I seem to recall that you nominated Ship Fever, Charlie.

Great list - I'd like to get some up into the heading. Sounds like The Moviegoer, Gravity's Rainbow, V and All The Pretty Horses belong up there, yes?

You're right about Cormac McCarthy. One of the greats. My dad loved him too. He writes word pictures, my dad always said about him. Perhaps toward the end of the year we might read the Border Trilogy - All the Pretty Horses, The Crossing, and the third one whose title escapes me.

Cities of the Plain....yes - that would be lover-ly (to read the trilogy). Hey! are we on a trilogy binge, or what?

I just reread All the Pretty Horses and would definitely join in a trilogy discussion because the other 2 are on my to-read list.

Any of those signed up for Flu might also be ready for Ship Fever. Don't know what it is about short stories, but I usually don't make it through a whole book---not so with Ship Fever. Content and great writing kept me reading.

My favorite bookstore, Powells, in Portland, often offers autographed copies of books. By the time I read today's email from Powells, offering autographed copies of Zadie Smith's White Teeth (a book, not her toofers)---an hour after the email was sent---all copies were sold out. Unautographed copies are still available---but "only one to a customer." Hmmm.

Received your email today. Am an compulsive and eclectic reader. Scanning prior messages seem to indicate that this site is only for official prize winners. Not sure I want to commit to just that. Will watch listings to see what "grabs" me. Thank you for welcome.

Meggo

betty/All: There is a proposed discussion of White Teeth which we'll do if there is enough interest.(Go to Coming Attractions)

Early favorite for The Booker, SarahT??

Meggo - lots of us find homes all over the Books. Hopefully you will too, but it's great to have you here. What are your favorite prize winning novels of the past 10 years?

Charlie - Wow - Zadie Smith, 23 years old, Booker Award winner. Can't imagine it could happen!

We've now talked about doing Philip Roth's The Human Stain Sept. 1, American Pastoral/I Married a Communist in Oct./Nov., White Teeth sometime in fall, and the border trilogy (Cormac McCarthy's All the Pretty Horses, The Crossing and Cities of the Plain) sometime before the end of the year.

Fellow readers - do all of those selections sound possible, as well as desirable?

To answer your question, Sarah, about what is possible---

I tried writing out an idea a few days ago but didn't post it, since it still sounds a little offbeat. But here goes, a suggestion only---that we agree to read X number of books by the same author but only discuss one or two of them. The discussion would include two groups of people, those that read the larger number and those that read only those slated for specific discussion. The specific discussion would be primarily about the one book, but comments comparing another book (if held to a minimum) would be welcome. Alternately, if enough people read all X number, a week or two week discussion could be done for each of the supplemental books. Just thinking aloud.

Similar to what I was thinking, betty. How about this: We've scheduled The Human Stain, as you'll see shortly. We open a general discussion of Roth and the other books in the trilogy for those of us who may want to read them, with no specific schedule. After - or at some point during - The Human Stain discussion, there may be sentiment to move on to one of the other books in the trilogy, or some other Roth, or move on altogether.

Ah, Sarah, just send me a reading list. I just minutes ago read the last words of Mating. (Started 2 days ago) In fact, from 4 this morning on, I've been reading. At a certain point, you can't stop reading. What moxie, what artistic freedom, what almost welcome conceit---he ended the book with her decision written IN FRENCH!! Not any other book I've read comes close to telling the way love is wanted, feared, gained, lived---and then reaches the time of questions and more questions. The last hundred or so pages I read one...word...at...a...time. I'm a basket case.

One quote at the end about returning to America---what, was this comic relief?? Anyway, I instantly substituted "Houston" and had the best laugh: "Being in America is like being stabbed to death with a butter knife by a weakling."

Oh, how I love this book. I knew it was a male author writing as a woman but I forgot it a thousand times. Beyond romantic love, he does perfect justice to intellectual love and to the periods of near insanity of romantic connections---where one is truly, if momentarily, out of touch with reality. The author also, obviously, has done his homework on group and social psychology---in fact, all of the evolution of relationships he attempts, group and individual, rings true.

I had such a strange thought half way through. I thought, this is the book that would cure someone's thinking that having to look up words in a dictionary would ruin a book.

What's my next assignment, Sarah?

betty - I substituted the word Houston and laughed out loud - for you - for a full minute!!

Betty - I'm thrilled you've joined the fan club for this book. My dad was actually the one who recommended it to me - he had amazing taste for books. Much of my to-read list in the last 10 years has consisted of books he loved!!

Here are two I loved - you'll either love them or hate them: Blindness (Saramago) and The Unconsoled (Ishiguro).

Sarah - Blindness keeps coming up. Might be an excellent choice for a Prized Fiction selection.

Charlie - we have The Human Stain in September, and White Teeth seems to be a selection for October. How about doing Blindness in November? It's pretty timeless.

Anyone else have any feelings about this schedule? White Teeth is not a Prized Fiction selection (although it probably will win prizes given all the accolades it's getting).

We used to vote on book selection; however, the process became somewhat cumbersome. Nonetheless, I don't want to read books that no one wants.

Thoughts?

I vote for Blindness in November, that way the Book Club Online will keep its cutting edge!

ginny

Anyone else want to read Jose Saramago's Blindness in November? It's not a happy book, but it's a great book. Everyone I know that has read it feels as I do.

Blindness whew, definatly a fear based book isn't it Sarah.

Blindness is a book to read with someone there to hold your hand. According to the reviews it's very scarey. Yes, I'd like to read it with you all.

My DIL left me over sixty books when she moved and I've been dipping into things I'd never have looked at before so I've been gone from here. But this looks like something I'd hate to miss.

Claire

WhysOne and Barbara - Yes, the Blindness discussion (I think we're talking about November) will definitely be chilling. However, the book is interesting on so many levels that I think it will be an amazing discussion. Would love to have you both with us!

Sarah, "Blindness" sounds like just my cup of tea! I'll be joining you all reading it in November, I hope!

Lorrie

Me too. Let's do it, Sarah!
Charlie

Blindness it is - November 1. Stay tuned for details . . . .

The Blindness discussion heading is now up and ready for your posts. We'll begin the discussion on 11/1/00.

Marjorie "---Blindness~by Jose Saramago~Prized Fiction ~ (11/1)" 10/1/00 11:50am

The Booker Awards short-list (SeniorNet's favorite award??) has been announced. Here 'Tis:

Margarret Atwood's The Blind Assassin. Sounds like an interesting if complicated book. Atwood was in town the other day on her book tour and in an obviously sour mood. This turned me off a bit. It's part of the game. Like an athlete having to sign autographs for little kids. Deal with it or don't go on tour (and, probably - consequently - forego that big advance. Still, I've been interested in reading this book and even more interested in reading her last one Alias Grace, but never got around to it. She just missed (1986) for The Handmaid's Tale. Make up time
The Hiding Place by Trezza Azzopardi. A debut novel, this one is not even available in US as yet (Jan 2001) - although, I'm sure you could get it from Amazon or B&N UK
Then there's Ishiguro's When We Were Orphans. I've read a number of "mixed" reviews on this one. Most people hark back to his earlier Remains of the Day (for which he did win the Booker. Sorry, Cazzie. You've already got yours (although Coetzee has a double)!
English Passengers by Matthew Kneale an historical novel with lots and lots (and lots) of characterrs!
The Deposition of Father McGreevy by Brian O'Doherty
And finally, another one not published in US as yet: The Keepers of Truth by Michael Collins. That'll be 9 lbs., please!

Awards are set for November 7th. No, Zadie. Boo-Hoo. Make your reservations now Marge.

Charlie

Charlie - a friend brought Ishiguro's When we Were Orphans back from England, where it was published several months ago, and I agree with the critics. It is not nearly as good as Remains of the Day, or The Unconsoled.

I love Margaret Atwood, and I've heard a lot of good things about Blind Assassin. Sounds like something we should read. How about in December?

Loved Alias Grace, by the way, Charlie. You really must read it.

I recently joined another book club and Atwoods books was one of the selections that I made.

The Nobel Literature announcements have finally been scheduled for this Thursday.

Charlie

Have any of you ever read A Fan's Notes by Frederick Exley? I saw it recommended on the Barbara Lane Booknotes show (she also interviewed Zadie Smith, whose White Teeth we're now reading at SeniorNet) and am really enjoying it.

Surely you've read it Charlie.

Maybe we should mix some Modern Library titles in with the Prize Winners?

Yes. I did read that years ago. Really, it was ahead of its time. I always think of this and The Moviegoer in the same vein. It's a fascinating book. The subject of the "spectator" I've always found compelling, and it's now considered a modern "classic."

Charlie

http://www.nobel.se/announcement/2000/literat_en00.html

Thanks, Sarah. I was going to say WOW - a Chinese writer. We have been reading quite a few Chinese writers or writers with a Chinese subject recently, and what would you think if....Well, it seems Gao Xingjian has only been translated into French at this point. Although I once read Sartre's Le jeux sont fait in French - that was in college and it's not going to happen again! The traanslations will comee though, I'm sure. If I remember correctly,, Saramago had very little in translation until he won the Nobel and therre's quite a but of his available now

Well, it Awards time isn't it. Bookers very soon and Nobel just announced. Now the National Book Awards finalist list has just been released:

The Feast of Love by Charles Baxter
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates
The Diagnosis by Alan Lightman. Read his Einstein's Dreams last year. Unique
Blue Angel by Francine Prose. Traude mentioned this one in The Human Stain, and would make a great follow-up to that one.
In America By Susan Sontag. Her On Interpretation was brilliant. She's on my list of the three women I most admire, along with Twyla Tharp and Laurie Anderson. Charisma + genius elevates you to the pantheon in my book.

Susan Sontag is terrific, isn't she. I have a very, very old article she wrote on stereotyping old and young people. It's brilliant and nothing newer comes close to its insights.

Well, Nobel Peace prize to a Korean, Nobel for literature to a Chinese dissident. Lots of recognition to Asian folks. Good.

You're right, Charlie, pretty soon, we can offer a survey course in Chinese literature.

Well...........not exactly. Although the B&N newsletter tipped me to the fact that titles by Nobel Literature Prize winner Gao Xingjian have not been translated. Copies of The Other Shore: Plays by Gao Xingjian are in traanslation - in paperback but difficult, it appears to obtain (altough ranked #15 on the Amazon sales list). I'm guessing that yesterday this was probably # 7,015 on the sales list.

Now I read that translations of his Soul Mountain and One Man's Bible should be available soon.
Charlie

Charlie - Amazon.com is no better. There just are no English language translations of Gao's work! Of course, that will all change. Just look at Jose Saramago.

I just had to copy Traude's wonderful post from the Welcome Center into this discussion.

On the Nobel Prize for Literature : It seems that the choice was a surprise, once again. That is nothing new. Who, after all, had heard of Egyptian Naguib Mahfouz when HE was the winner a few years ago ? One wonders whether his readership increased after the award. But I imagine is the universal honor that really counts.

The new recipient, Gao Xingjian, aroused the ire of the authorities in Beijing by writing about the excesses of Mao's infamous "Cultural Revolution" -- all schools were closed for a number of years - if that can be imagined.

He was born in 1940, the son of a bank employee and an actress, and developed an early interest for literature and the arts. At the foreign language institute in Beijing he studied French, was exposed to the French dramatists and became a translator of Ionesco's work, among other authors. Then he began speaking out of conditions in China. The authorities put him in an internment camp for "reeducation". The effort failed. After the massacer at Tiananmen Square he spontaneously quit the Communist Party. Eventually he made his way to the west. He has lived in Paris since 1988 and is now a French citizen. His work is banned in China because under a totalitarian system nothing that is critical in any way of the existing conditions and the established status quo is PERMITTED TO BE KNOWN !!! Similarly, the work of Ha Jin (author of WAITING) cannot be published in China either - even though it seems to western readers innocuous enough !

In my humble opinion there is a crying need for the west to know about the "modern" China -- any thing after Pearl S. Buck -- because we do need to know, badly.

Yes, that was good. Traude!! Come on down here!
Charlie

I know this is not about prize-winning fiction, but I wanted to let you know that Time Magazine has ranked SeniorNet as one of its top ten websites. Pretty snazzy!

Take a look

http://www.time.com/time/digital/thelist/

Just 4 more days to go until we begin discussing Saramago's Blindness - click here to join the discussion.

Marjorie "---Blindness~by Jose Saramago~Prized Fiction ~ (11/1)" 10/28/00 7:15pm

Here are this year's nominees. The finalists will be announced on November 15, so stay tuned. Have you read any of the following books? Enjoyed them? I'm a great fan of Joyce Carol Oates - have read as many books of hers as I can keep up with, although she's so prolific that it's hard to do that!! I've also heard good things about the Sontag.

Have any of you read the other three?

FICTION

Charles Baxter, The Feast of Love (Pantheon Books)

Alan Lightman, The Diagnosis (Pantheon Books)

Joyce Carol Oates, Blonde (The Ecco Press/HarperCollinsPublishers)

Francine Prose, Blue Angel (HarperCollinsPublishers)

Susan Sontag, In America (Farrar, Straus and Giroux)

We need some more "Favorite Prize-Winners of Yesteryear" up in the title. Tell me your favorites!!

OK I'm going to nominate So Big by Edna Ferber, Pulitzer Prize winner of 1924. It's about a mother's favoritism between her two sons and I think it would be stunning to revisit it again, in fact, I'd like to do GIANT too, a Ferber retrospective.

Here are some reviews:

SO BIG

Edna Ferber

Introduction by Maria K. Mootry

A best-selling writer from Chicago, Edna Ferber had great popular appeal throughout the world. She published nine plays, two autobiographies, eleven short story collections, and thirteen novels, including Showboat, Giant, and So Big--winner of the Pulitzer Prize--the unforgettable story of Selina Peake DeJong, her marriage, widowhood, and eventual success as a truck farmer, and of her son, Dirk. In So Big, Ferber simultaneously created a vivid picture of turn-of-the-century Chicago and dealt with the (still) contemporary issues of poverty, Americanization, family tensions, sexism, and success.

"A thoughtful book, clean and strong, dramatic at times, interesting always, clearsighted, sympathetic, a novel to read and to remember." -- L. M. Field, New York Times

"[Ferber] knows the power of the sharp, incisive phrase, dipping her pen into the blood of humanity, bringing us news of life as she sees it." -- International Book Review

"To Miss Ferber's narrative and descriptive powers I genuflect in homage. Her vocabulary is rich and vital; she sees material objects with a penetrating and delightful vision; she has portrayed aspects of Chicago more vividly and with greater distinction than any writer I know; she knows the history of the development of Chicago in the industrial age and she is able to convey in a few words the import of that development; she can describe flappers and debutantes, shop girls and stenographers, tell you how they dress, how they talk, what their working philosophy is, with illuminating flashes." -- Burton Rascoe, New York Tribune

"It has the completeness, and finality, that grips and exalts and convinces. By virtue of these qualities So Big is a masterpiece." -- J. J. Smertenko, Literary Review

ginny

Fantastic, Ginny. This one belongs in the heading for sure. I'd love to read So Big. Never have read anything of Ferber's.

Any other favorite prize winners out there??

Some favorite winners:

Love in the Time of Cholera, Gabriel Garcia Marquez 
One Hundred Years of solitude, G.G. Marquez 
Ship Fever and Other Stories, Andrea Barrett 
A Thousand Acres, Jane Smiley 
Beloved, Toni Morrison 
Stone Diaries, Carol Shields 
(Pulitzer, history) No Ordinary Time: FDR and Eleanor, Doris Kearns Goodwin 
Love of a Good Woman, Alice Munro 
Remains of the Day, Kazua Ishiguro

Sitting in my to-read stack:

(History) Gotham: A History of New York City, Edwin Burrows 
Writing and Being, Nadine Gordimer

Having lived as a white dissident in South Africa, she has said she never felt she "fit" where she lived and that she has always been searching for a place "that knows you."

I know the 2 histories and the autobiography are not fiction, but I thought I'd just throw them in.

Ginny - Hmmmm: "a mother's favoritism between her two sons..." We could do Steinbeck's East of Eden about a father's favoritism between his two sons and make it a matched set!!

Charlie

Betty - can you believe I tried to read Love in the Time of Cholera in Spanish? Loved that book.

Have you ever tried to read Ishiguro's The Unconsoled? Very weird - but, in my book, the most unique book I think I've ever read.

When I started on this most recent reading kick (about 10 years ago), I read a lot of Nadine Gordimer. My dad loved her books and I took most of my tips on reading at that time from him (he also was the one who put me on to Mating, which I know you loved). Have you read any of her fiction? She's terrific.

Tell me about the Munro. I'm embarassed to admit that I've read maybe one of her books, and yet I hear such great things about her writing. What am I missing.

All in all a fantastic list. Would you put all the fiction in the heading, or do you have some true true true favorites from that list?

Doris Kearns Goodwin is a true gem. She always manages to come up with the most apt historical analogy to a political issue that's happening in the present. I almost bought No Ordinary Time once, and then, for some reason, didn't. It's back on my to-read list! We seem to like a lot of the same books.

oohhh , Charlie, an "OLdies But Goodies" for the new year, re explore Steinbeck and Ferber: a matched set. I really like that one and of course there IS the movie.

Let's GO for it!

What do you all think?

ginny

I am new. Has a book already been chosen? If not, would you consider Waiting by Ha Jin? The author won the 1999 National Book Award for fiction.

So Big would get my vote too. I am ashamed to admit I have never read any of Ferber's books.

HATS

Hi Hats (hmmmmmmm - Hi Hats. I like that!) We read Waiting earlier this year - you can find it in the archives. Have you voted in the Suggestion Box? There is a list up and voting is open for next Prized Fiction selection (January) and next New Fiction discussion (February). Why not click the link below and vote for 1 each from the list in the heading of the page: CLICK HERE AND POST YOUR VOTES

Charlie

just briefly check in.

First to say that I have not been able to read each entry here. Even so may I briefly comment that Canadian Alice Munroe is known for her powerful short stories. She is masterful in that genre.

Second, have you seen the announcement that Margaret Atwood was awarded the Booker Prize for THE BLIND ASSASSIN ?

Third : Have been preoccupied with Saramago's BLINDNESS and promise to try and find my way back to the "Voting" folder and the Archives. Soon. I would like to see what was said about WAITING before I joined; I did check Archives when Charlie first told me but could NOT find Waiting. Thank you Traude

Traude, are you looking at "Previous Books Read and Archives" link at the bottom of the BOOKS & LIT page? Waiting is the 27th discussion listed. This list isn't exactly in alphabetical order all the way through, is it?

Many thanks, Betty.

Excellent. Traude

An interesting article on the major literary prizes that takes a look at their back-room maneuverings. Especially interesting is the politics of each prize. There's even a quote from Percival Everett - a name unknown to me until recently. His will be the first Short Story that we'll discuss in our collection on December 1st. If I read this right, his experience as a National Book Awards judge has become fodder for a novel he is working on!

I'll have to check out the Whiting Award, though. If only they had a web site....

And the Winner is...

Charlie

Chas: Thank you that url. What an interesting site that is. I have bookmarked it for future reading.

Many thanks, Charlie!

And...Professor Everett teaches in California and one just wonders when we all go out there in 2002, if he might be available, after Sarah gets Amy Tan, that is?

Thanks so much for that, Charlie, I think we may need to read more Everett, maybe.

ginny

Susan Sontag won the award this year for her NOVEL, In America.

The other nominees were as follows:

The Feast of Love by Charles Baxter

The Diagnosis by Alan Lightman

Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates

Blue Angel by Francine Prose

We're in the process of voting on January and February 2001 reads, and in February BOTH the Sontag and the Oates are in the running. (I voted for the new Kingsolver.) I think they'll be closing the voting on December 1, so if you haven't yet voted, go on over.

"---Book Club Online Suggestions & Voting"

The article Charlie provides a link to in post # 259 is truly interesting. It talks not only about the back-room maneuvering that goes on, but about the mediocrity of many of the books/authors chosen.

What do you think? Are these prizes bunk?

I did a truly informal survey of the last several years' National Book award finalists for Fiction. There are several on there that I truly loved. Most I've never read (and in all likelihood never will read). What do you think of this list? Are there some GREAT books here?

1999

Waiting by Ha Jin--Winner! (We read this here on SeniorNet. I did not love the book, but others seemed to)

House of Sand and Fog by Andre Dubus III

Plainsong by Kent Haruf (Read it, liked it, but, oddly, remember nothing about it!!)

Hummingbird House by Patricia Henley

Who Do You Love by Jean Thompson

1998

Charming Billy by Alice McDermott--Winner! (Another SeniorNet read. Most liked it but didn't seem to believe it was prize-worthy)

Kaaterskill Falls by Allegra Goodman (horribly written, I thought.)

The Healing by Gayl Jones

Damascus Gate by Robert Stone (liked this book a lot. Maybe even approaches greatness)

A Man in Full by Tom Wolfe (another SN read - I hated it; many loved it. I liked Bonfire of the Vanities 10 times better)

1997

Cold Mountain by Charles Frazier--Winner! (Couldn't finish it - nay, barely could start it. SN read it and many loved it)

Echo House by Ward Just (another book I couldn't finish, but have often thought I should give it another try)

The Puttermesser Papers by Cynthia Ozick (I don't think I got through this one either!! What a philistine I am!)

Le Divorce by Diane Johnson (cannot believe this was nominated. Light fluff a la Bridget Jones' Diary or A Year in Provence)

Underworld by Don DeLillo (excellent book, I thought.)

1996

Ship Fever and Other Stories by Andrea Barrett--Winner! (A perennial SeniorNet nominee but don't think I ever read it.)

Atticus by Ron Hansen

The Giant's House by Elizabeth McCracken

Martin Dressler by Steven Millhauser (Still on my to-read list)

The River Beyond the World by Janet Peery

1995

Sabbath's Theater by Philip Roth - Winner! (WHO has read this one? I haven't and would love to know your thoughts)

All Soul's Rising by Madison Smartt Bell

krik? krak! by Edwidge Danticat

Interstate by Stephen Dixon

The House on the Lagoon by Rosario Ferre

1994

A Frolic of His Own by William Gaddis - Winner! (Loved this book for some reason. Most friends I know who tried it hated it)

Moses Supposes by Ellen Currie

White Man's Grave by Richard Dooling

The Bird Artist by Howard Norman (GREAT read. Loved Norman's The Museum Guard even more)

The Collected Stories by Grace Paley

1993

The Shipping News by E. Annie Proulx - Winner! (One of my all-time favorites - see heading of this page)

Come to Me by Amy Bloom

The Pugilist at Rest by Thom Jones

Operation Wandering Soul by Richard Powers

Swimming in the Volcano by Bob Shacochis

1992

All the Pretty Horses by Cormac McCarthy - Winner! (fantastic book, movie coming out. We MUST read some McCarthy at SN)

Bastard out of Carolina by Dorothy Allison (another great one - but I thought this was non-fiction???)

Dreaming in Cuban by Cristina Garcia

Lost in the City by Edward P. Jones

Outerbridge Reach by Robert Stone

1991

Mating by Norman Rush - Winner! (Another of my all time favorites. A nominee for SeniorNet's January 2001 read)

Wartime Lies by Louis Begley

Frog by Stephen Dixon

The MacGuffin by Stanley Elkin

Beyond Deserving by Sandra Scofield

-----------------------------

All in all a good list, actually. I'd love to hear your recommendations from the list.

Well it looks like we are doing pretty well by the latest winnners, we're pretty au courant here for the last year or so, of those mentioned my own takes: (I'm beginning to worry about being a Phillistine, too, Sarah)...is it because we read SOOO much now? Is our taste better or worse? Not sure.

Anyway: Waiting: loved it
House of Sand and Fog: just bought it and it does look good, a new Oprah pick
Charming Billy : hated it
A Man in Full : disgusting
Cold Mountain : too pat, hated the ending.

But the good thing about our book clubs is you can enjoy the discussion even if you did not care for the book and it's OK not to like the book, we all have different tastes, and I do think all this reading develops our taste, too. It's OK not to like a book.

I'll read thru the second chapter of House of Sand and Fog and come back in, Oprah raved absolutely raved over it a coupld of days ago. No I do not watch Oprah but after seeing here there as I was preparing dinner I had to have the book. She's good and she does deserve the National Book award she got for...I guess furthering reading.

She's good at it and is doing great stuff encouraging.

ginny

Ginny, tell us what you think of House of Sand and Fog as you work through it, ok? I'm curious.

And others - Ginny's right - we can have great discussions without actually liking the book. Man in Full was my first discussion here at SN and I hated the book but will always remember the discussion as an excellent one.

Have any of you had good discussions of books you did not like??

Hmmm...yes, good discussion, bad book. My own fault, though. And the book wasn't really bad, but it was the third Phillip Roth book I'd read in about a month's time. I thought I was sooo cool, reading the first two of a trilogy just before the discussion of the third---Human Stain. That many pages of Roth wore me to a frazzle, though, and my patience with how he wrote about women was all but gone by the time we started the discussion. The discussion was particularly good, though. I ended up appreciating a few things about Roth but felt validated in my views of how he misses the boat on female characters.

I KNEW you'd say that, Betty. It was a frustrating book in a lot of ways, but a great discussion - added to immensely by you!!

TIMELINE, I really enjoyed our discussion of Timeline and by the time the book was over, hated the book, but I think I was the only one. People got caught up in the Romance of the thing, and ordinarily I love Crichton (who just had a dinasour named after him by a Chinese fan who discovered it) but not that time, that was a farce.

ginny

Sorry Ginny, but I too hated Timeline!!

Heckers, he was way off, too, in his research, heckers!

I have read one chapter of the House of Sand, House of Fog, which was short listed for the National Book Award in 1999, and if the rest of the book is like the first chapter it's fabulous.

Oprah kept saying just get past Chapter 1, but when Chapter 1 ended I wanted IT to go on and on, it's magic, and so I will hold breath because Chapter 2 takes us to an entire different milieu.

Chapter 1 is fabulous.

Will post this in New Fiction also, where I think we were discussing it.

Another wonderful discussion of a hated book was the perfectly awful The Liar's Club by Mary Karr. That is the first book I ever read that I hated. Hated it, disliked her with a passion but it remains one of our best discussions because of the participants. I will NEVER forget Eddie Marie Elliott's posts, never.

ginny

win
2000 Nobel Prize-winner
Gao Xingjian's novel

Soul Mountain

Soul Mountain won't be published in the United States until December 5, 2000,

About the book: Soul Mountain is an elegant, unforgettable and courageous novel; a picaresque journey of one man – part travel diary, part philosophy, part love story and part fable. Interwoven are myriad stories and countless memorable characters – from venerable Daoist masters and Busshist monks and nuns to mythical Wild Men; deadly Qichun snakes to farting buses. Conventions are challenged, preconceptions are thwarted and the human condition, with all its foibles and triumphs, is laid bare.

In 1982 Chinese playwright, novelist and artist, Gao Xingjian, was diagnosed with lung cancer, the very disease which had killed his father. For six weeks Gao inhabited a transcendental state of imminent death, treating himself to the finest foods he could afford while spending time reading in an old graveyard in the Beijing suburbs. But a secondary examination revealed there was no cancer – he had won "a reprieve from death" and had been thrown back into the world of the living.

Faced with a repressive cultural envirnment and the threat of a spell in a prison farm, Gao fled Beijing. He travelled first to the ancient forests of central China and from there to the east coast, passing through eight provinces and seven nature reserves, a journey of fifteen thousand kilometres over a period of five months. The result of this epic voage of discovery is Soul Mountain.

"An original voice, unlike any contemporary writing available in English... an extraordinary product of an imagination infused with European and Chinese culture; an exploration of individual identity in a society that exalts the collective; and a daring play with the voice that plunders ancient Chinese myths, philosophy, history, folk songs and memory." Sally Blakeney, The Weekend Australian

"An odyssey like no other, a magnificent monster of a book that takes us deep into China's unruly heart as no other work of contemporary literature." Nicholas Jose

"This fascinating book is the work of a painter, poet and philospopher and in its multi-faceted way it blinds us with its kaleidoscope of a cruel China." Diane de Margerie, Le Figaro

Barbara - thank you so much for that information on this year's Nobel Prize winner. We had talked about this awhile back and about the fact that Gao's books aren't yet available in the U.S. Now, it looks as if that will change.

Gao was a controversial choice, according to the article Charlie posted in post # 259.

If any of you buy the book and like it, would you let us know here?

Thanks again, dear Barbara!!

We will discuss Mating starting on January 1, 2001. Stay tuned for details . . . .

If you'd like details about the book, click on the link entitled "Mating" in the heading above.

Sarah: When I clicked on Mating above, Igot a message that said " The parameter is incorrect."

Hmm - it works on my iMac, ALF. Let me know your computer and browser and I'll have one of our tech experts look into it. (Check the link one more time; it does look a bit different from the way it looked yesterday, so it's possible someone has fixed it).

Thanks!!

Huh! Maybe it was my computer yesterday, it workds fine today. Thanks Sarah.

Hello Sarah - Came in to suggest that we schedule Boris Pasternak's Doctor Zhivago in the spring or summer some time, as you and I both were interested in reading and discussing it. Pasternak won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1958 for this novel, but relinquished the award under pressure from the Soviet government. So much has happened in the former Soviet Union since then; it all fell apart about 1990 wasn't it? When did the wall come down and the Union fall apart? We could discuss all of the recent history as we discuss the book.

Ella, what a wonderful idea!

Are there others interested in this? I sure am.

Oh, yes, to Doctor Zhivago! I have a first edition of it---purely by accident. My mother came to visit the coast of Oregon a few years ago and one of the things we did while she was there was wander among antique shops.

My mother, never one to pay full price for a book, always looks for used books at garage sales (most are questionable reads, in my opinion) for a quarter each. She was surprised, therefore, to see books listed for more than a quarter at an antique shop, but she relented and bought several for a dollar each. Later, when she was packing to go home, she insisted I keep the used copy of Zhivago, for which she had paid $1.50. It was only later that I saw that it was a first (American) edition.

Hey, three people makes a discussion! That's one of the laws here in the books - Yeah! Now the question is when? Sarah?

Betty, I bought this book at one of those consignment/antique shops not too far from me for $3.00, but it seems to be an old one. How can you tell if it is a first edition? On the inside cover there is just this "FIRST PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 1958" and it lists 5 different printings in that year, such as 1st-10th Thousand July 1958 and the final one is 51st-65th Thousand October 1958 and down below it shows a copyright date of "1957 Giangiacomo Feltrinelle Editor, Milano, Italy and another copyright date of 1958 in the English translation. Wm. Collins Sons & Co. Ltd., London. On the opposing page is "Translated from the Russian by Max Hayward and Manya Harari "The Poems of Yurii Zhivago" by Bernard Guilbert Guerney.

The title page has a lovely black ink drawing of an isolated house with a horse-drawn sleigh.

In the back of the book are all of the poems mentioned above.

So what do I have here - anything of interest?

This heading is really pretty. I am curious though. How come when I first come here I get a black background as the green is loading?

Louise - same here! It's beyond my technical expertise to figure out, however.

I'm thinking March-ish for the Zhivago?

No, Sarah, March won't do for me. That's when we will probably be discussing AMERICAN TRAGEDY. I'll be gone the month of February driving south, seeking warmth. I'll take Zhivago with me.

How about April?

April sounds great for Dr. Zhivago, Ella. Are others interested in this as a possibility?

We'll be discussing National Book Award winner Mating, by Norman Rush, starting Jan. 1, 2001. Here's a link in case you'd like to post ahead of time:

Mating by Norman Rush

Charlie (another DL for those who don't know him) gently reminded me that Prized Fiction is scheduled to "host" discussions every OTHER month. Since we have January, and March, we don't have April, but May instead.

How does that sound? Are others besides Ella, Betty and me that would like to read Dr. Zhivago in May. We can also pass around a videotape of the movie during that month to really get into the spirit.

And don't forget, only 12 more days until the Mating discussion begins. I've heard from a number of you that you'll be joining us. If you're on the fence, give the book a try. It's in virtually all libraries, I think.

Mating by Norman Rush

When I wandered into SeniorNet 1-1/2 years ago, I was wary. First of all, I am not a senior (I'm 41). Second, I'd never participated in any book discussion - online or off. I was just an avid reader curious about this "book club" phenomenon.

I was reading Tom Wolfe's A Man in Full and thought I'd like to discuss it with others. (As it turned out, the book wasn't all that good, but I'll always remember it since it brought me here.)

I tried a couple of other places, but the people didn't treat each other very well. There was a sort of intellectual one-upsmanship that turned me off.

Then I stumbled in here, because BC Online, SeniorNet's longest ruinning book discussion, had A Man in Full as its next featured discussion.

I tentatively uttered a few words about the book and myself - and was blown away by the welcoming response. People were so warm and friendly and respectful of each other and SMART and insightful. I "confessed" my "disability" (not being a Senior) and no one minded.

I realized virtuallly everyone I came into contact with who was "leading" discussions was a volunteer. No corporate monolith, no dot-com flash in the pan, no "bosses," just volunteers who loved books.

I have stayed because I feel a part of something here.

I hope you all feel the same. Sometimes I get mad about something. Some days I feel my posts are ignored. That's just the nature of an online community, I think. But most of the time, it's magical being here. I've met people and learned things I never would have done otherwise.

You are a part of this community of readers too. Without you, these discussions don't happen. I give thanks for each and every one of you, and for SeniorNet for bringing us all together.

Happy holidays!

With much love,

Sarah

Hi Sarah! Haven't been on SN for awhile - those remarks you just posted are dittoed (is that a word?) by all of us. We discovered Seniornet, by accident or word-of-mouth, but however we did it, we are grateful to have done so and discovered a world unlike any we have ever encountered before - it's a world where we can discuss our life-long love of books with others, take all the time we want and in whatever "mode" we find ourselves, be it pajamas and slippers or the first thing we do to start the day off in the right mood! It's grand!

I've been in book clubs before - haven't most of us? One met in homes and we worried about cleaning before and a dessert afterwards; another met in the Library for an hour - who can possibly cover a book in an hour considering there were about 10 of us? All of that was before computers, of course, how fortunate we are to have lived to be a part of the technology age.

About Dr. Zhivago, Sarah, can we wait until June or thereafter? A few of us are planning on a trip to Europe this summer and if it comes to pass it will be in May, or, at least, that is our plan as of now.

Hello all you Prized Fiction lovers! Here is what we've settled on for upcoming Prized Fiction discussions:

March 2001: House of Mirth, by Edith Wharton (just out as a movie, by the way!)

July 2001: Dr. Zhivago (Ella and I will "lead" the discussion).

So now - your mission if you choose to accept it: help select a Prize winning or nominated NOVEL for May 2001.

Please post your selections below, and we'll decide by consensus (I hope!!)

Thanks all!

Sarah, I meant to come back in here before now to say what a lovely post from you a few days ago---telling your history here, what drew you here and why you stayed. Telling how this book discussion site compares to other sites. Telling about ourselves surely makes us seem more accessible to potential newcomers, but even those of us who have been here a while (almost 2 years for me) like hearing the personal, how-you-got-here stories.

I had been reading several volumes of Virginia Woolf's letters and diaries two years ago in the winter and lurking for a few weeks here when I happened upon the scheduled start date for Mrs. Dalloway (by Woolf) and The Hours, two books for one discussion. When the discussion started, I crashed right in and declared that the reading schedule was backwards---that Charlie should start with Mrs. Dalloway, not The Hours. I think that may have been Charlie's first discussion to lead (is that right, Charlie?), so poor guy, the first few days of the discussion was sidetracked with a few of us approving or disapproving of the schedule. It didn't take me long to feel terrible and to apologize by email, but he doesn't let me forget about that inauspicious beginning, either. ---------------------------------------------

Ok, on with nominations for prize-winning fiction....and thanks for those good links in the heading that list award winners. I'll list four books, but only nominate the last two. I would read the first two happily, so if someone else wants to name them, great. A Thousand Acres by Jane Smiley, Pulitzer, 1992. A perfect book. The Stone Diaries by Carol Shields, Pulitzer, 1995.

I want to nominate The Blue Flower by Penelope Fitzgerald. It won the National Book Critics Circle Award in 1997. Ginny keeps talking about Fitzgerald, so I've been looking for a first book of hers to read. Wow, you should see the reviews listed in Amazon.com for this book. The New York Times and other reviewers can't find enough superlatives. This is Fitzgerald's 10th book----her first was written at age 59. This is an historical novel about a young, amazing, German poet in the late 1700s---but you must go read the Amazon reviews---I won't do them justice by trying to summarize.

The next book is Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry which won the Pulitzer in 1986. I still have an emotional attachment to this book, probably because of the circumstances of how I read it. A good friend of mine in Austin had started the book, knew that I had just bought it, and declared that it should be read aloud. So, he and I took turns reading the book aloud to each other---all 858 pages. We had meant to get together about once a week and just pick up reading from the previous week, but once we started reading, we found it was the kind of book that was impossible to quit reading.

So, every evening for about two weeks, we sat in the floor of my living room reading aloud. About midway through the book, we were both so attached to these characters!!! During a sad part, I was crying so hard I couldn't keep reading, so he tried to read and HE couldn't do it, either. Then it was funny, of course---both of us holding kleenexes and blowing our noses. McMurtry makes the reader care so much for his characters!! Oddly, the only other author who has made me feel that attached to the characters is Patrick O'Brian---and his Aubrey-Maturin series is about two men who are life long friends, just as the two main characters in Lonesome Dove are. Strange.

Betty - those are GREAT suggestions. Ginny will love The Blue Flower, since Penelope Fitzgerald is one of her all time favorite authors. I think she even corresponded with her toward the end of Fitzgerald's life. One of my favorites, AS Byatt, calls Fitzgerald's writing as close to perfect as writing comes!

Haven't read Lonesome Dove - but your story about it is amazing. Your throats must have been tired! What a great experience with a book!

I also loved A Thousand Acres - the last good thing Smiley wrote, in my view - and for you Shakespeare lovers, based on King Lear.

Ok - those three go up on the list, since I'm nominating A Thousand Acres along with your two, Betty.

_________________

I'll also nominate Susan Sontag's In America, which I'm reading now and just won a prize this year.

_________________

What about others out there? Do you have some nominations?

Sarah ... send me a list of books nominated and I'll put them in the heading... so they can be seen all at once.

I like the nomination of Penelope Fitzgerald. We've been talking about her here forever - and Betty has selected one that fits here in Prized Fiction. Good choice.

(No, Betty - that wasn't my first discussion - but I thought it would be my last!!!)

by the way I post things in the wrong discussion. Is THIS the gain 340 pounds in a day site?

If not, I think I'll just post this here in hopes that somebody will direct me to the correct place, honesly, too MUCH NUTRASWEET!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe my eyes! Are you REALLY going to try a Fitzgerald? And I don't own a copy of The Blue Flower as the subject matter, I thought, did not appeal to me.

Every one of her books is different. Her style is the same but the books are different. The Bookshop was shortlisted and I do think that would be an excellent choice, as well, for a discussion, being as it is about how people can turn nasty over the most humble ambitions of another. It's very short, and I think it's exemplary of her talent.

I don't know The Blue Flower but I ordered it this morning and the reviews are breathtaking, the word "masterpiece" used all over the place? Strange topic for a book.

Are you sure you don't want to read the Bookstore or Bookshop or whatever?

It's barely longer than a short story?

ginny

Ginny - I just happen to have a reader's guide to the Blue Flower! I was reorganizing some bookshelves and found it yesterday! That might add to a discussion of the book.

I really like the idea of reading something by Fitzgerald in May. Perhaps we could read two of her books - they do tend to be short. Are there any of her books that you especially adore?

Do others have feelings about what they'd like to read in May? Does Fitzgerald sound good to you - or would you join us if we chose her?

Penelope Fitzgerald seems to be gathering steam as our May 2001 Prized Fiction discussion. Ginny, the readers guide to The Blue Flower also contains questions about The Book Shop . Have you read the latter, and does IT interest you for May?

Betty?

Charlie?

PatW?

Others?

(Don't be afraid to post here even if you never have. This space is open to all, whether you've participated in these Book discussions regularly or not at all)

Blue Flower: 1997 National Book Critics Circle Awards
Offshore: 1979 Booker Prize
The Means of Escape: Her last
The Bookshop: 1978 Booker short-list
"Good as {Ms. Fitzgerald's} other books are, 'The Blue Flower' is better.It is a quite astonishing book, a masterpiece"...NYTimes reviewer!!
Charlie

The Bookshop would be a fabulous read as well, but I will be gone the last week in May but it won't make any difference. I liked Offshore too, I'd like to do the Blue Flower and the Bookshop.

In July. hhahaahaa

ginny

Ok, it's unanimous (I think?). We'll read a combination of The Blue Flower and The Bookshop as the Prized Fiction selection in May 2001.

Thanks Betty for finally giving Ginny what she's been begging for. And I hope others of you who like Fitzgerald will stay tuned for details.

We'll add this to the Coming Attractions list soon.

Looking forward to it!

Sounds good---2 Fitzgerald books for May.

Ginny has shouted the accolades of Ms. Fitgerald for so long now that I am in!!

Hooray ALF - you'll be a wonderful addition!

Wheee just found y'all again - Ms. Fitgerald YES! And Zhivago how woundful - I loved the movie but never did read the book. I remember when the book was "the" Book to read - I was pregnant with my wonderful Paul back in '58-'59.

Betty you have inspired me to the idea of reading something together with an adult friend which is different then reading to grandchildren.

Sarah you post about coming to seniornet and how it is you stay is so perfect. My coming may be because of a different book but yes, to all the rest. I remember lurking thru most of "Jude the Obscure" and finally having the courage to post with the beginning of "...and the Green Knight"

Thank you for your kind words, dear Barbara. It will be great to have you in our upcoming Prized Fiction discussions.

Did anyone see Susan Sontag on McNeil-Lehrer last night, reading from her prize winning new novel In America? I am just about to finish the book and have really enjoyed it. It is about a real-life aristocratic Polish actress and her extended family who come to America in the 1870s and establish themselves in southern California. She then returns to the stage after a prolonged absence.

It's a really good book.

I missed Jim Lehrer last night (visiting company)... but he does bring in some good authors... He's written quite a bit himself.

Yes Sarah wasn't it inspiring to see her so matter of fact talk about her cancer - what is the low down on the book Sarah? Was it an easy or difficult read? How does it relate to life today? - Sarah Victoian Ladies that are usually being controlled is just not where I can go so I think I need to skip the Edith Wharten but the others look great.

Barbara - it's an easy read except at the very beginning. I agree that Sontag's discussion of her cancer was very liberating. She mentioned that people are often afraid to discuss it - and continue to treat it as some terrible plague. Her openness was an inspiration.

Don't worry about the Wharton if it's not your cup of tea.

The new selections look very good. And Ginny finally gets to read Penelope Fitzgerald...

Look at the great books we'll be reading in March, May and July! Please stay tuned for details and plan on joining us for one (or all) of the selections.

Maybe this has already been thought about, but in case it hasn't, isn't there any way we could start our May 1st discussion a week early to include Ginny in all 4 weeks of the discussion of her Fitzgerald books? I'm almost sure we wouldn't be reading them if she hadn't "whined" (quoting her) about our reading this author for the longest time. (She'll be gone the last week of May. I think I have this right.)

I know the schedule gets tricky here and there and sometimes it doesn't work to change a start date, but I'm asking if it can be considered. It was Ginny who corresponded with this author for a long while---how rare that we would have a Books and Lit member who already knows the celebrated author. I guess a selfish part of me wants her to be here throughout the whole discussion.

I'm happy to do that, Betty. Great suggestion - just keep me honest and don't let me forget!

Just a reminder to everyone that we will commence the discussion of Edith Wharton's House of Mirth on March 1. Wharton fans, folks who saw the recent movie remake and want to read the book, people who have never read Wharton but would like to, folks interested in talking about the constraints on women presented by social mores - old and new - , please join us on March 1!!

aggg, I couldn't remember where I read this, oh dear, I'm torn between seeming more than I am, and telling the truth, (always a problem for me) hahahaha but the truth really is that I did not know Penelope Fitzgerald any more than any of you do, nor half so well as I would have liked to. I remain a total fan to this day like most people who read her, and she was gracious enough to answer a couple of my letters, as she probably did for anybody who wrote her, but that was it.

So I don't have anything to offer any of you don't and unfortunately it appears I will be leaving the 15th as well, so I guess we'd have to say this is not my finest moment, but I urge anybody who has not read Fitzgerald to read her books, she's totally different in each one.

I'll be here whenever you start it!

Esse Quam Videri

What a noodle you are, Esse Quam Videre (whatever that means). Of course you know more, because most of us haven't read even one of her books---and you have. None of us have corresponded with her---and you have.

Ahhhhh, leaving even earlier than we thought. Hmmm. Hmmmm. Well, I suppose we could vote on it and make you change your ticket. Or...since you're trying to back all the way back to "never heard of her," I suppose we could always begin the discussion on the day you leave, hehehehe. Nah, not tough enough. I think we should make you begin each post with, "From my expert opinion..." or "My friend Penny once said..." Yeah, that'll work.

-----------------------------------------

By the way, I happened across reviews (good) of the biography Fitzgerald wrote of her father and his 3 brothers (I think I have that right). Looks really interesting. Has anyone read this or heard of it?

My great friend Penny once said to me privately and for no other ears......hahahaha, Betty, you are such a trip! Well of course I can and will begin every conversation in a "Penny says" way and will try to sprinkle in some "insider' knowledge with every GASP!

Esse Quam Videre means nothing? hhahaha, it means "I'm too old to quote Latin."

Went to bed last night happily put down book and eyes banged open CRASH CRASH!.....DID you say videre? or did you put it videri? Surely you didn't put videre? (which is the correct infinitive form, but not wanted here)....

Nahhhhh nahhhhh GET UP and GO LOOK....nahhhh. nahhhhh. it's ok.... so the first thing I see this morning is videre (to see) when of course I wanted to see videri (to seem) and thought, hope hope nobody saw that....er....naaahhhhhhh

hahahaha

That really WAS a three strike evening! hahahahaa

Motto of North Carolina: Esse Quam Videri (just typed it wrong again!!!!!) It must be some Ancient Caesar Glitch that keeps possesing fingers.

"To be, rather than to seem to be." I like that.

Yes yes from my great perspective yes....er.....yes........

NO I had not heard of that biography, and I bet it's good, too. Darn I must go look it up. Ironically, we're going to stay in London in her neighborhood this time!

er....that is, what I perceived from her writings to be her old neighborhood?

ginny

Betty, that is hilarious! Ginny, so are you gone the entire month of May - at the beginning and again in the middle?

hahaha, isn't that Betty a stitch? hahaahahah

No I'm leaving May 15 for about a month?

Esse

I just remembered something. Ginny, you're in good company---Charlie, that scoundrel, did an wonderful sales job on several of us last year---got us to agree to discuss the novel History: A Novel (a wonderful book, as it turned out). First, because it was out of print, we all had to search for used copies. Then, about two weeks into a good discussion, guess who had to leave the discussion on extended, out-of-town business? Yep, 'ole DL himself. So, I guess Charlie still holds the record (begging, convincing, then disappearing).

You know, I see that book on my shelf (and saw it when I was packing) and know I'll read it again---and that's unusual for me. It had/has a haunting quality---someone else in the discussion said the same thing not too long ago. An incredible book, really. Ok, Charlie, you owe us half a discussion!

"The Bonesetter's Daughter" sounds interesting. It is written by Amy Tan. Could we try that one some day in the far off future?

I won't press my luck. You guys have already chosen "The Blind Assassin." I am so excited about that one.

HATS

Sorry. I just remembered this is only for prize winning fiction. Just forget I mentioned "The Bonesetter's Daughter."

HATS

Hats, Go to the Best Sellers page... that book is listed there.

...jane "---Best Sellers~" 3/4/01 6:01am

Speaking of prizes-- did anyone happen to read where several 17th century pipes were found on the site of Wm. Shakespeare's home in Johannesburg, S. Africa? They allowed researchers to analyze 24 fragments from these pipes and marijuana (which does degrade over time) was found in 8 of the pipe fragmnets. Also some cocaine was found, tobacco, camphor and a chemical with a hallucinogenic property. The Folger (are we going there in DC?)Shakespere Library said scholars had NO profof of narcotics used by Wm (1564-1616.) Pot was used as a medical remedy at that time but they won't go as far as to say Wm. indulged. I thought that was a bit much due to the fact that these fragments were found "around" where he lived.

Thank you, Pat.

HATS

There's a really fascinating article in today's' Boston Globe about Gao Xingjian, the recent Nobel Prize winner for literature. The author of Soul Mountain was speaking at Harvard a few days ago and accompanied by his interpreter and translator, Mabel Lee.

I don't think we can even begin to understand how controversial this selection was to the Chinese people, both around the world and in his native land. His works have been banned in China for some time and the selection was denounced again only recently as "ludicrous" and a slap in the face to the Chinese. This is the "official" stance, though it is by no means limited to the Chinese government. There are also those who resent him for his refusal to be a spokesperson for the anti-Beijing factions. Many of his fellow writers take his work to be "obscure". Many feel that he was chosen specifically as a political maneuver, to show up China. The rationale for this argument can only be understood in light of what has been said to be China's "obsession" to win the Nobel Prize as sort of a national badge of honor. When making the international head count, China saw winners in the last 10 years from: Mexico, South Africa, Jamaica, US, Ireland, Poland, Italy, Portugal and Germany and Japan. In fact, there have been multiple winners from Japan and the USSR, Germany and many others. An expatriate with French citizenship did not fill the bill! The Nobel committee has been accused of playing politics by those all over the political spectrum.

What a story, though. The personal one, I mean. The only real source of Western thought available to him as a young man was in French translation, so he became intimately familiar with Sartre, Joyce, Mann, Beckett, Kafka and Ionesco. A painter, a playwright and a poet!! During the Cultural Revolution he burned nearly all of his own manuscripts - only to be denounced by his wife and sent to a "reeducation camp." !!! Making his way back from the living dead in the 70's and 80's he was again blacklisted in 1983 - his works are still banned to this day.

The story only gets more incredible, though. Diagnosed with lung cancer (later to be proven a false alarm), word came down that he would be arrested, so he fled, in 1983, to a remote part of China. His 9,000-mile journey from the source to the mouth of the Yangtze eventually yielded his epic novel Soul Mountain. This book sounds like a difficult journey in itself - all 528 pages of it.

Gao says

"the book questions everything…all the paradigms of existence - history, society, politics. It raises doubts about consciousness, self, even the ability of language to express the self. It emphasizes how difficult it is for human beings to connect with one another."

Hello, Philip Roth. Ambitious, would you say?

Gao says that he asked his translator that the words 'us' and 'we' not be used in the English version of Soul Mountain. They don't appear in the original and, Gao points out, in China the "'we' has completely vanquished 'I'" The Chinese language rarely invokes the singular pronoun, I am told. My country 'tis of thee? A presumption to the Chinese. Many critics have remarked on the elusive narrative voice in his novel. Sometimes the narrator (an unnamed traveler) is "I" and sometimes "you."

What to make of all this? I don't know whether I'm ready to tackle a book of this scope. I don't know whether my Western sensibilities are ready for the challenges presented therein, but the man's story is certainly a gripping tale in and of itself.

Charlie

Charlie, I saw about 30 minutes of that interview! On C-span? I'm not sure of the location, so maybe it was another time and location. Interpreter, translator, and Gao. A little trouble at the first with volume. A funny line right at first from the interpreter (person who lives in the U.S., obviously). From a quiet, respectful tone in Chinese, speaking to Gao, she turned to the audience to say rather loudly in English and with a big smile, "Why are you so quiet? I thought American audiences were supposed to be loud!" Which did get a laugh. I guess that was her attempt to break the ice with the audience, or I don't know, maybe she sensed people were holding back the level of their response chuckling because of the quiet interaction among the three on stage.

He spoke quietly about the long walking trip and that the book held each piece of the trip. (remembered his words "each piece") It's strange that I retained so little of the interview...gave up watching, in fact. It was a slow process of interpreter telling us what she was going to ask, then turning to ask him in Chinese. Then the translator would listen to his answer and turn to us to "interpret."

It was from something else I read that I understood who he was and what the book was about...that's why I began watching the interview. I had no idea of all the personal details, though, Charlie. And only a vague understanding beforehand how much he tried to tackle in the book. Uh...you're a much braver man than I...if you do this. But, who knows, is there any way to see the first chapter, just to get a sense of the writing...no "us" or "we," huh...and the narrator might be "you." Oh, well, no problem, if you're the narrator, we'll read the book with you.

Barbara posted about your trip to Thailand...good grief, what a wonderful area...have you learned all the songs yet? Got the hands-on-hips stand of Yul Bryner yet?

Betty

Well, here's an excerpt from Soul Mountain - at least a part of Chapter 1. Excerpt from Soul MountainI don't think you really get much of a flavor for the writing. You certainly do get, though, a sense of the aforementioned 'you.'

Charlie

Ok, I've done my homework on Gao Xingjian's Soul Mountain. These are my first thoughts on why we might take the plunge.

First, the negative aspects that a few readers agreed upon....no plot, charactors did not have names (only "you," "I," and "she," used by narrator), typos that the publisher didn't catch, loss of subtle or multiple meanings in the original Chinese language, no map to track journey to Soul Mountain.

This would be a good place to say that all this is from memory after having read Amazon's reviews (from literary journals, newspapers and personal readers). I'm sure there are things I'm leaving out.

Here's what began to sink in as I read. Even though each reader began a review by listing what was wrong with the book, each then would say why this is a must read. This is a fictional character's journey to Soul Mountain, (Gao's?) search for meaning of life, meaning in life, for his soul. This is a spiritual quest for answers to life's toughest questions, but it is also this Chinese traveler's denouncement of the destruction brought by the cultural revolution---the destruction of the individual, the "I." (So, I'm wondering if this journey to Soul Mountain is a celebration of or a search for the "I.")

Gao's real life journey to Soul Mountain (and writing the book) was prompted by 2 events: a second set of x-rays that shows clear lungs (six weeks after x-rays showing lung cancer!!) and the knowledge that he is about to be arrested. I personally cannot imagine having to juggle the celebration of life (freedom from cancer) and the need to escape being arrested. Even though no reviewer refers to these two circumstances in Gao's life, someone does say that he addresses life's "contradictions."

Amazon lists other books purchased by those purchasing Soul Mountain. See if these ring a bell----Waiting by Ha Jin, Blindness by Saramago and books by Ishiguro (Remains of the Day? or When We Were Orphans?

If all the reviews had one thing in common, it would be praise for Gao's prose. In fact, if I could lump all those different sentences together, it would sound something like...."Despite the negatives I've listed, Gao's incredible prose in his search for meaning overshadows all else."

A thought or two....I gather that these chapters are like separate vignettes. If we decided to read this book (Nobel prize, afterall), then one possibility would be to choose a handful of chapters for discussion. Many reviewers said, "this is a slow read." That would be another reason to discuss portions instead of the whole. Those of us in the discussion would probably have read the whole book, then we could vote on which chapters to discuss.

It's slowly sinking in (with me) that some of the more troublesome books we've tackled, either the reading or the discussion being a challenge, are some of the books that are "staying" with me. So, the controversy and "negatives" of this book don't alter my interest in (1) subject matter: search for meaning, (2) Gao's beautiful prose (3) Nobel prize material.

The long trip across China, soul-search for answers and meaning, is the hook for me. Besides, when have we ever been sorry when we followed a suggestion from Charlie (ok, in this case, he's still wondering about the book, no firm suggestion yet, so maybe we can talk him into it).

Betty

We're pretty au courant here, as Ginny already says. Take a look at Betty's post just before this one.

"Amazon lists other books purchased by those purchasing Soul Mountain. See if these ring a bell----Waiting by Ha Jin, Blindness by Saramago and books by Ishiguro (Remains of the Day? or When We Were Orphans?"

We've read both Waiting and Blindness in the past year here at SeniorNet!

Powells (in Portland, OR), my favorite bookstore, has pronounced Soul Mountain a novel of immense wisdom and profound beauty. Also listed are several reviews of those who praised the author's work and found his journey illuminating. The Powells reviewer saw the "you," "he," and "she" as additional parts of the narrator, as others selves with the "I." He also found the stories of the damage done by the cultural Revolution quite painful.

This is sounding very interesting. Quest for truth stories hook me, anyway.

Betty, I'm really leaning toward reading Soul Mountain. We're kind of booked up in Prized Fiction through July (March is House of Mirth, May is Penelope Fitzgerald's two books, The Blue Flower and The Book Shop, and July is Dr. Zhivago), but I'm wondering if we can get a head of steam up to discuss Soul Mountain in some other forum.

I like the sound of it.

Sarah, here's my thought...we're already into the summer months planning for most forums, plus there is (just from my reading perspective) a dense schedule starting right now until first of summer. Summer vacations.

I'm wondering if September would be a good month, either as "prized" selection or ....how do they do it?...just one all by itself. Charlie, how does that work?

I'm also thinking....Brothers K starts April 1st....Dr.Zhivago, another that could take some time, starts July 1st. For those in either discussion who also wanted to do Soul Mountain, anything before September might not work.

Charlie, were you close enough to deciding IF to read, and if so, any thoughts about leading? Might I be so bold as to wonder if you and Sarah would want to co-lead?

hahahahahaha.....just cracked myself up with a joke. You and Sarah co-lead and I'll read....that's three!! A complete discussion!

betty

......actually, one of the best times I had in a discussion here was one in which we only had 3 participants and we led ourselves. A little sloppy, but we survived.

Very tempting. What about you, Sarah?? Anyone else?

Well, if you two will say a definite yes to each other by email?? or?? with particulars, or whatever?, then we can get it on the Sept. schedule officially, then begin a persuasion/periodic reminder campaign for others to join in. Wonder if there is a transcript of any of the interviews? Some of the Amazon/Powells/B & N?? reviews would be nice to drop into a reminder about upcoming discussion. ....getting ahead of myself here.

Oh, I do love search for answers (quest) books. Probably why I like some Woody Allen, though that is a whole 'nother universe. I'm so glad this is working out (counting chickens, one, two, three......).

betty

Betty- SarahT has agreed to co-lead a Discussion of Soul Mountain in September.
Charlie

Terrific!! So, September it is!

I just ordered a much-reduced price Soul Mountain from one of Amazon "sellers." $17.28. It will come by book rate post...3-4 weeks, maybe. I also ordered Feast of Love the same way for $6. One step removed from Amazon, but Amazon guarantees the "seller" and security. Payment is made to Amazon.

This is going to be great...can't wait to get my book and see what's in store. Thanks, Charlie and Sarah!!!!

betty

Big excitement this week at the Folger Library, home of the Pen/Faulkner Awards... nominations for this year were surprising to all of us because the list does not include new writers this year as it has in the past.

The judges made the announcement a few days ago. The short list includes Roth for "The Human Stain"; Michael Chabon for "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay"; Millicent Dillon for "Harry Gold"; Denis Johnson for "The Name of the World"; and Mona Simpson for "Off Keck Road."

Past winners of the fiction award include Tobias Wolff, Peter Taylor, T. Coraghessan Boyle, James Salter, E.L. Doctorow, Don DeLillo, E. Annie Proulx, David Guterson, Richard Ford, Gina Berriault and Ha Jin.

Here's an article from the Washington Post
2001 Nominations for the Pen/Faulkner Award

Thanks, JoanP.

Tobias Wolff is one of the best writers around today. I also adore Mona Simpson. We read The Human Stain here in SN, and while people were generally ambivalent about the book (if I recall correctly), it was also a great discussion.

The San Francisco paper sponsored a book club of the Chabon book, and it's on the top of my "to read" list. It technically qualifies as "Prized Fiction" now that it's been nominated (hint, hint).

Continuing in our series, we will commence a discussion of the great Penelope Fitzgerald's two very different novels, The Blue Flower and The Bookshop, on May 1.

A heading will be available very soon, and when it is, I will put a link to it here. In the meantime, please consider joining us for this discussion. Fitzgerald has won prizes galore, including the Booker (1995), and should be a wonderful read!

Come on over and join the discussion of Penelope Fitzgerald's The Bookshop and The Blue Flower. The discussion officially starts May 1, but if you'd like to join in now, and discuss Penelope Fitzgerald generally, please do. Also, let me know if you think you'll be joining the discussion.

---Blue Flower/Bookshop~by Penelope Fitzgerald~Prized Fiction~5/01/01 4/20/01 9:40pm

Hi everyone-

I had some trouble with my internet connection to SeniorNet, and was unable to gain access to the site for the May 1 start date of the discussion of Booker Prize winner Penelope Fitzgerald's The Bookshop and The Blue Flower.

I have finally fixed the problem, and the discussion resumes today, May 17. Please come on over and join us.

Jane DeNeve "---Blue Flower/Bookshop~by Penelope Fitzgerald~Prized Fiction~5/17" 5/17/01 9:26am

Would love to have you as part of the discussion. Don't worry - we'll start at the beginning of The Bookshop, and then tackle The Blue Flower starting in June.

Michael Chabon, winner of the Pulitzer Prize for fiction (The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay) has just won another, California-based prize. Is anyone interested in discussing this book later this year?

Here's information about this year's Pulitzer prize winner for Fiction, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, by Michael Chabon:

Book jacket from The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, published by Random House

With this brilliant novel, the bestselling author of The Mysteries of Pittsburgh and Wonder Boys gives us an exhilarating triumph of language and invention, a stunning novel in which the tragicomic adventures of a couple of boy geniuses reveal much about what happened to America in the middle of the twentieth century. Like Phillip Roth's American Pastoral or Don DeLillo's Underworld, Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay is a superb novel with epic sweep, spanning continents and eras, a masterwork by one of America's finest writers.

It is New York City in 1939. Joe Kavalier, a young artist who has also been trained in the art of Houdiniesque escape, has just pulled off his greatest feat to date: smuggling himself out of Nazi-occupied Prague. He is looking to make big money, fast, so that he can bring his family to freedom. His cousin, Brooklyn's own Sammy Clay, is looking for a collaborator to create the heroes, stories, and art for the latest novelty to hit the American dreamscape: the comic book. Out of their fantasies, fears, and dreams, Joe and Sammy weave the legend of that unforgettable champion the Escapist. And inspired by the beautiful and elusive Rosa Saks, a woman who will be linked to both men by powerful ties of desire, love, and shame, they create the otherworldly mistress of the night, Luna Moth. As the shadow of Hitler falls across Europe and the world, the Golden Age of comic books has begun.

The brilliant writing that has led critics to compare Michael Chabon to John Cheever and Vladimir Nabokov is everywhere apparent in The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay. Chabon writes "like a magical spider, effortlessly spinning out elaborate webs of words that ensnare the reader," wrote Michiko Kakutani of The New York Times about Wonder Boys --and here he has created, in Joe Kavalier, a hero for the century.

(From the book jacket)

The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, by Michael Chabon (see my previous post just before this one), will be the BC Online discussion topic for the month of August 2001. Stay tuned for details!

Hi Sarah! A lovely heading. I just stopped in briefly, am having a family picnic tomorrow - about 20 people and I have no idea where to put them as it's going to rain! Oh, boy! I may hide under the bed and listen to the gossip.

Hi, Sarah! I posted in your "working" discussion, but will put something in here. I just wanted to tell you how lovely this heading is, I love the colors, and it s very simple yet striking! Great job, Ladies!

Lorrie

Look at this! You just mentioned the Michael Chabon's Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay and we just read Philip Roth's Human Stain...look at the Folger Library's prestigious Pen/Faulkner nominatins...and award for 2001! Wow! SN Books are really with it! Count me in for Kavalier and Clay!

Pen/Faulkner Award 2001

I like all the Prize seals, Sarah.

Joan says: "Count me in for Kavalier and Clay!". OK, Joan, I've written that down and tucked it in a safe place! We've pulled up that special chair you like - you know the cushy one with the ornate lion paw feet and tapestry print.

My book arrived yesterday (and of course I couldn't wait). This is FUN to read. A fascinating story right from the beginning and just chock full of references that make you want to "know". August 1. Be there.

Although not a Prized Fiction selection - this is our BC Online read for August - it has been showered with nominations (Joan has just pointed out another one) and won this years fiction Pulitzer. Finally, I'm reading Chabon. I'm embarrased that I haven't up until now. Wonder if anyone has seen Wonder Boys, the movie, from an earlier Chabon book for which (I think) he wrote the screenplay. I missed it. Rumour has it that Chabon is working on the screenplay for Kavalier...
Charlie

Wonder Boys is out on cable right now, and I've heard great things about it. Didn't realize it was a Chabon project. Now I have to see it.

So glad to see you all here!

Today we commence discussing the second Penelope Fitgerald novel featured in the May/June Prized Fiction discussion. The Blue Flower was the most admired novel of 1995, chosen 19 times as "Book of the Year" in the year-end newspaper roundups.

Please come by today, and anytime in the next several weeks, to discuss this fascinating novel.

"---Blue Flower/Bookshop~by Penelope Fitzgerald~Prized Fiction"

Anita Diamant has won the Book Sense Book of the Year Award for Fiction (The Red Tent). This is an award given by a group of over 1,200 independent booksellers. The Red Tent was discussed here some time ago. She now has a web site and some of you may be interested in her progress on her new fiction: Good Harbor.

Charlie

You have one more week to discuss Penelope Fitzgerald's The Blue Flower. If you have read the book, please stop on over and give us the benefit of your final remarks.

---Blue Flower/Bookshop~by Penelope Fitzgerald~Prized Fiction"

I hope you will join Ella and me in discussing Doctor Zhivago, Boris Pasternak's novel, once banned in the USSR, that helped him earn the 1958 Nobel Prize for literature. Come on in!

"---Doctor Zhivago~by Boris Pasternak~Prized Fiction~ 7/01"

If you're a Prized Fiction fan, I wanted to let you know that the discussion of Michael Chabon's 2001 Fiction Pulitzer Prize Winning novel - The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay is now open for comments. The discussion of the book itself, our August Book Club Online selection, won't start until August 1st, so there is still plenty of time to get the book. But take advantage of the time until then to explore some of the links at the top of the page - there are interviews with the author and reviews of the book. There's even a link to the author's own web-page. Enjoy.

If you pick-up the book (the hardbound from your bookstore - local or online - from the library - or the paperback that is supposed to be released in a week or two - I know you'll enjoy the book. It contains some serious themes wrapped around a good story. In addition, there is something just plain fun about reading this one. It's a natural web-discussion book. It's chock-full of historical and pop references and you'll learn a lot - and remember a lot. Really, pure fun. I had a ball. So much fun in fact, that I decided to annotate the book. Click on the Roman Numerals for each Part at the top of the page and you'll be taken to pages of links for further browsing and reading - and viewing - and listening. Yes, there are even a number of songs available to listen to as you explore.

All of this is unnecessary, of course. The book stands on its own, but I think, if you're inclined, you'll have fun being taken back to the era of the novel through the sights and sounds therein. If you'll be joining us on August 1st for the discussion, why not take a minute to let us know here. If you're not ready for that, you can click on SarahT, or my name at the top and drop an e-mail. Let us know your preferences, if any for the discussion. As always, everyone is welcome - there is no club here - just friends gathering around to talk about their reading experience. We'd especially like to invite newcomers - anyone who hasn't joined in on a discussion here before. Hope to see you later.

CharlieW

Readers, wait until you see the wonderful work Charlie has done to prepare the discussion of The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay. You will be pleasantly surprised at the adventures he has in store for you!!

For consideration in November, I'd like to suggest Music & Silence by Rose Tremain. A Whitbread Award Winner.

Set in seventeenth-century Denmark, Rose Tremain's dazzling, prize-winning tale is a pungently atmospheric, richly provocative, and masterfully orchestrated romance of point and counterpoint: loyalty and deception...tenderness and violence...community and alienation...peace and conflict...Music & Silence.

Peter Claire is an English lutenist summoned to Denmark to join King Christian IV's royal orchestra. Designated the king's "Angel" because of the purity of his physical beauty, Peter falls helplessly in love with the lovely companion of Queen Kirsten, the king's adulterous wife. The young musician finds himself dangerously torn between loyalties, ensnared in the deep-seated unrest of a royal court where the forces of good and evil, of harmony and dissonance, are ensconced in a battle to the death.

CharlieW

I am torn, Charlie. I read the customer reviews of Music & Silence and they were so divided that I realized I too will either love or hate this book. If it's the latter, I will be really disappointed! Have you read anything by her?

No, I haven't. I hadn't seen any bad reviews. I was drawn to this when I saw it in the bookstore today, and because I really loved Vikram Seth's An Equal Music.

CharlieW

Charlie, let's see how others feel about the possibility of discussing Music & Silence. Anyone else have any thoughts?

ok, ok, ......since our reading histories are close, Sarah, and because Charlie comes up with the best, I went to read the reviews in a couple of places. Sounds wonderful.

I favor good historical novels (am just about to start Bonesetter's Daughter and am just finishing Borderland, a detailed history of moving the capitol of the new country Republic of Texas from Houston to Austin during 2nd President Lamar's 2-year term---passable fiction, great history. Comancheria, land of lakes, rivers and hills had been chosen as a plum spot long before the "men with hats" chose it and called it Austin.) I'm terrible...both books went to mother for Mother's Day...now I've borrowed them.

Music and Silence sounds wonderful, even the title has appeal.

I am reading The Restraint of Beasts by Magnus Mills, which was shortlisted for both the Booker and the Whitbread, chosen as one of the best novels of 1998 by the Los Angeles Times and won England's McKitterick Prize.

What can I say about it? I'm 3/4ths through. It's about fencers, not the swordsmen, but those who put up high tensile fence in England? Three of them?

Now we live on a farm, and I have had occasion to encounter fencers and even they pale with this bunch who are strangely affecting, I can tell you one thing, you don't forget the characters or the situations readily and you often, while trying to read it in bed, laugh out loud, but discuss it?

Nah.

ginny

I read that book recently - and remember nothing about it. Scary, huh Ginny!

HEY!! There's our Sarah, so glad to see you again!

I know what you mean about this one, Sarah, but I bet you remember what's under the gateposts? hahahahaa

ginny

Just a Note from the Hem of Reality....

I do not want this job. If elected, I will not serve. But, here I am again saying what's wrong with our line-up on the main page. I can't leave a message in the Soul Mountain folder, as requested, mind you, because the durn thing ain't open. I looked for the key above the ledge, under the fern pot and in the garden frog. Nothing.

betty

Did you say the magic words? Did you rap on the back window? Sometimes we're down in the basement and can't hear you. When we turn the light on, we usually leave the door unlocked. I switched on the light too soon and did't let the door ajar. Forgive me? Let me run up and let you in. (hope you brought a snack...)
Charlie

Longlisted for the Booker Prize? It's happened this year. The shortlist will be selected on September 18th, from the longlist of 24. The Prize itself is awarded about a month later, in October. Some of the more familiar names:

Beryl Bainbridge According to Queeney

Nadine Gordimer The Pickup

Nick Hornby How to be Good

Ian McEwan An Atonement

V. S. Naipaul Half a Life

Manil Suri The Death of Vishnu

Charlie

There has been some talk about doing a discussion of the book "The Shipping News" in December in the Books Into Movies folder, because the movie of that name will be released that same month, but I see that this book is a Pulitzer Prize winner. Does that affect the lineup here, by any chance?

Lorrie

Hi, Sarah! God, you must be tired!

Not at all, Lorrie. I think Proulx's novel was mentioned here a few times, but we never got around to it. Persnally, I think it would be great if you would do it.

Hokey Dokey. Sounds like a good one. Excellent cast, by the way, in the movie version. I always did like Kevin Spacey. December okay?

Lorrie

December is great.

Charlie

Loved this book - and, now that I'm back, I'd love to participate/assist in the discussion in December.

I've been away all summer, training for and since completing a triathlon, but I'm baaaack!!

Welcome HOME our Sarah, how we have missed you!!!

How did you do on the Triathlon?

Hope you feel better soon!

ginny

The triathlon was a wonderful experience - and also a fundraiser for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. I raised about $4000 for the cause and in the process, swam a mile in the ocean (Monterey Bay, California), biked 25 miles and ran 6.2 miles! Here's the message I sent around after completing the triathlon last Saturday, 9/15:

Friends, family and colleagues:

I finished the race Saturday. It was moving in so many ways, from the flags at half mast on the course, to the military planes overhead, to the candlelight vigil we held Friday night to the tunes of God Bless America, to the speeches we heard from people with blood related cancers who likened us - the triathletes - to those firemen in New York. (That one really got me.)

There were funny moments too. I was almost disqualified because I didn't have caps at the end of my handlebars - a goring hazard, I learned, for the first time, that morning. I plugged the ends with Clif Bar and covered them with duct tape, and voila - I was legal! After I passed out from fatigue that night after the race, my husband reports he heard a high pitched whining and then what sounded like a gunshot in our room. Turns out it was my rear tire (the HARD one to change) exploding. One of my teammates broke a bike pedal, went to a hardware store, had it fixed, came back, and finished the race!

I spent a lot of time gabbing and having my picture taken during my transitions (between the swim and bike, and bike and run), as you can see below (does that surprise you?). All in all, it was the best thing I could have done with my time last Saturday, after such a hellish week. If you're interested in doing something like this, see me (Team in Training's next season kicks off 11/10). If I can do it, anyone can!

There's still time to join the Soul Mountain discussion. This is a fascinating book in which the reader wanders through the Chinese landscape while the narrators observe man's effects on the natural environment, meet fascinating people, have fleeting relationships, and always carry on an interior dialogue about how change has affected the country and its people.

Come on over!!

The Shipping News won the Pulitzer Prize and is now the topic of discussion here:

The Shipping News~Books Into Movies III~" 10/30/01 10:38am

Please come in and join the discussion.

Hello, I'm new here, just signed in today. I was thrilled to find this section, "Prized Books" at Seniornet. I'm hoping that this discussion group will serve as a focus for my reading choices.

I recently read _A Home at the End of the World_ (1990) by Michael Cunningham, who won the Pulitzer for his _The Hours_, which I haven't read yet, but intend to.

_A Home at the End of the World_ tells its story from the point of view of several different characters. Different chapters are "spoken" by different characters, a very interesting approach. I found the book to be full of thoughtful observations about life in general.

A quote from p. 3: "We can see as he pulls up that the manic joy has started to fade for him."

What person hasn't had this happen to him/her? The book is full of universal feelings felt by its characters. That's why I liked it. To me, life is about feelings.

Rita Russ

PS-I read _The Shipping News_ a while ago. I'm going to look into the current discussion going on here.

Hello, Rita, and welcome, you have definitely come to the right place and we are delighted to see you here!

We've read Michael Cunningham and you will find in Sarah and Charlie some kindred souls in the world of good reading, I can't tell you how delighted we are you've come, and we hope you'll stay a long time with us!

ginny

Rita - I am SO glad to have another Prized Fiction aficionado! Welcome. I hadn't realized that Cunningham had a new book out - how did I miss it?? I have heard they've made his book into a movie and am very curious to see how it turned out. We read the hours and Mrs. Dalloway as a pair about a year ago - very interesting discussions as I recall.

In terms of upcoming discussions, we're definitely planning on reading a VS Naipaul since he just won the Nobel, but debating which of his books to read. I voted for A House for Mr. Biswas, but others are interested in his latest. Any preferences?

Please do join The Shipping News. It's about at the end, but I'd love to have your thoughts on this wonderful book.

Thank you, Ginny and Sarah for your welcomes.

The Cunningham book, "A Home at the End of the World" came out in 1990. I haven't read "The Hours" yet, but will try to get to it.

I haven't read any of VS Naipaul's work and I don't know much about it. So whatever you choose will be a step up for me.

I've been neglecting my reading lately because I've been spending so much time on the Internet. I hope this Seniornet Book Group will help get me back to my reading. The posts here are very interesting and this seems like an excellent group of readers. I'm glad I found you.

Rita

Welcome Rita- We have a proposed discussion of an as yet to be determined Naipaul book - which we hope to schedule to start on February 1st. We'd love to have you join us for that one.

Charlie

Thank you for the welcome, Charlie.

I'll certainly stay tuned to find out which Naipaul book you choose for February. It feels good to simply be discussing the reading of these "prized books"! I feel as if I've found an oasis in the middle of a desert. I hope it's not a mirage! LOL I've been wandering around the Internet looking for a place to hang my hat.

Rita

An oasis in the middle of a desert! I love that and that would be us. You will not be disappointed. We are delighted to have you join us here.

Thanks for the welcome, Alf.

As the lyrics to the song in the show, "Annie", said:

o/~ "I think I'm gonna like it here!" o/~

Rita

I asked this in the Romance section and now I'm asking it here:

Have any romance writers won any prestigious awards besides those given by Romance Magazines, etc?

Usually romantic novels are placed on a lower rung than other genres. I'm wondering if there are any writers who have managed to create a romance novel, not only noted for its good storyline, but also for its fine writing. Anybody know?

BTW, I'm speaking of the more readable writing styles, not the old-fashioned heavy stuff of Edith Wharton, George Eliot and Henry James, which one often has to "plow" through. "The English Patient" was a romance of sorts, but it was non-linear, ambiguous, and difficult to read. I guess what I'm wondering is: Does a book have to be hard to read in order to win a prize?

Come to think of it, an example of a prize-winner which was easy to read was "Catcher in the Rye". That surprised me.

Any comments on all of this?

Rita

I thought The Shipping News was a fairly easy "read" in a number of ways. Ditto several of the other prize winners we've read. This is not to say they've been easy stories, but the reading has not been difficult in the mechanical sense. I'm thinking of Saramago's Blindness, Norman Rush's Mating and anything by Philip Roth as examples.

As to the Romance genre, I don't read em so I don't know, but maybe someone else does.

Yes, Sarah, I agree that The Shipping News wasn't difficult to read or understand.

I found "The English Patient" difficult to read because it was ambiguous and non-linear. In fact, Time Magazine called it "unreadable."

While we're talking about it, let me put this question out there:
What makes a fiction book difficult to read, in your opinion?

Rita

The author who wrote it?

I'm with Time Magazine that The English Patient was unreadable - I stopped in the middle. On the other hand, many found AS Byatt's Possession unreadable when we did it here, but somehow that book just worked for me. Ditto Ishiguro's The Unconsoled.

Most of the time, however, I suspect there is an objective standard of "unreadability" that would have most agreeing about a particular book. Let's do a test:

Name 3 books you've read that you really had to work to finish (or that you abandoned midstream due to unreadability). Let's see if others agree.

My list:

Ondaatje, The English Patient

DeLillo, The Underworld (although I liked it)

Gaddis, A Frolic of His Own (ditto)

Good idea, Sarah.

"The Unconsoled" by Ishiguro:
I enjoyed Ishiguro's "Remains of the Day" immensely, but when I started reading his "Unconsoled", I just couldn't get into it. I was very disappointed. My notes show that I read up to page 98. Then I wrote: "Plot too slow-moving; too many flashbacks." The flashbacks didn't work for me. I was anxious for the story to move forward and instead it just looked backward. There was a sense of frustration about it for me.

"Beggar Maid" by Alice Munro: Although I don't remember anything about it, my notations just say "boring".

"The Green Knight" by Iris Murdoch My notations say: "wordy, dull, too many characters"

"Middlemarch" by George Eliot: I read this book and copied down 7 pages of quotes from it, but I remember feeling that it was too dense. I felt as if I were "plowing" to get through it. I had to refer to "Masterplots" (Magill) to help me decipher the plot which was long and drawn out, if I remember correctly.

Rita

What fascinating books you've read, Rita, I like the idea of taking notes, I think I'll start.

Of course my all time horror is James Fennimore Cooper, he of the Natty Bumppo hero, the Leatherstocking series. Now you talk about BORRRING. I can't read him, just can't.

I also can't get into the Palliser Chronicles, for some reason.

Three books hah, that you didn't finish because they were so bad....hmmmmmm

Need to think on that.

Came in here to announce the February Book Club Online's choice of A House for Mr. Biswas by V.S. Naipaul. Not a new book, but the Nobel is for the body of work and it may lead to our wanting to compare his latest with it. Please plan to join us in February for this super treat, everybody who has read it loved it. Please see the discussion above in the Proposed group (but not for long) for more details.

ginny

I'm so happy we'll be reading Mr. Biswas. Can't wait.

Rita, Ginny and anyone else - okay, enough about the HARD prize winners - now, how about the great, lovely, easy to read, joyful prize winners? The books you'll never forget?

For me, Mating, Blindness, Shipping News are three recent such books.

OK, SarahT, here's one. (I just posted this in another area (Bedside Books), but it bears repeating.):

Just want to mention a "must read!" I just finished reading "Waiting" by Ha Jin (1999). It's a compelling story, one of those books you cannot put down. Not difficult to read either. A fast read. It won The National Book Award.

The Chicago Sun-Times wrote of it: "Extraordinary...A remarkably austere love story, suffused with irony and subtlety."

Don't miss the pleasure of this book.

Rita

"Waiting" was an excellent book and we had a great discussion here about it.

Waiting By Ha Jin ~ National Book Award 1999" 10/24/00 7:25pm

Sarah - I've borrowed the Mr. Biswas book from the library and have it here for future reading. I hope I can get into it. I took a peek, but didn't get much further than the first few pages. Too many distractions and other books in progress right now. Well...I have until February, thank goodness.

All this motivation from SeniorNet Books and Literature is really taking its toll on the cluttered state of my house. Will I ever get to clear the clutter? Remember the Clutter Counselor from "Saint Maybe"(1991) by Anne Tyler? She made "her living sorting other people's households and putting them in order." She sorted everything into 3 piles: "Keep, Discard, and Query". The Clutter Counselor says: "I make it a practice to query as little as possible. Everything we keep I organize and what's discarded I haul away." She makes it all sound so easy. Of course, Anne Tyler won the 1988 Pulitzer Prize for her "Breathing Lessons." I wonder if Anne Tyler's house is cluttered like mine. I LOVE my clutter...until it starts taking over. LOL

BTW, I went back in my scribbled notes to find this info. I am absolutely *compelled* to take these notes. When I read something which I just can't bear forgetting or losing, I find myself unable to read further until I copy it down. This slows down my reading, but makes a wonderful hobby... an inexpensive collection which doesn't take up much space. Just some loose-leaf binders on a shelf, all the pages scribbled by me as I found unforgettable passages.

Rita, sitting among her clutter...all of it very organized...in my eyes...(grin)

Pat, I should have known! LOL
Thanks for the heads up on "Waiting", and for the link.

I will definitely go back and read the discussion of "Waiting" in the archives. I'm still trying to finish reading the discussion of "The Hours" in the archives.

My mind is in a whirl! But a wonderful whirl.

How does anyone keep up with all this?

Rita

Rita - my secret: I don't ever really keep up! I'm always juggling.

I love that you keep notes on books. My dad kept this list just of every book he'd read (all on one piece of paper and there were probably a thousand books listed), with a teeny tiny plus sign (or minus sign) next to the ones he particularly liked (or disliked). The ones he was neutral about had no sign next to them. I've spent 10 years trying to read all the ones with plus signs!

Sarah, What a wonderful and valuable list your Dad kept. He must have been a clear thinker. I probably save too much and it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

Sometimes I find that although I had copied quite a few quotes from a book, I never finished reading it. This is probably because the plot was too slow moving or too complicated, even though the prose was special.

I loved your "juggling" metaphor. Yes, we do seem like jugglers in life, don't we. Sometimes we're able to keep everything up in the air and sometimes it all comes crashing down around us and we have to somehow pick up the pieces and begin again. I often do this with books. My Books-To-Read List sometimes becomes so daunting, that I simply begin a new list and go on from there.

I must confess that although I try to keep my reading to "Prized Fiction", it's often the junk reading which keeps me going. Too bad it's so hard to find good "junk" reading. (g)

Rita

The details of your father's list really touched me, Sarah. (I hope you are working from a copy of the master and have preserved the original. Or...thinking as my Mother does, she would send out a copy of the list as Christmas presents.)

Rita, I, too, write in notebooks as I read, but yours sound more organized than mine. I'm not sure mine would make sense to anyone else.

How do we keep up with all the books and discussions? We don't!! I'm forever taking on more than I should or switching methods of attack. The only improvement I see (in myself) is that I've grown used to the chaos and have accepted a somewhat zen perspective...whatever condition that my reading is, is.

Betty

Betty - reading is like life - there's just never enough time to do it all!

Reminder that we'll be reading this year's Nobel Prize-winner V.S. Naipaul's great(est?) book A House for Mr. Biswas starting in February. Anyone planning on joining the discussion?

Yep, I've ordered that book Sarah? Are you leading it?

Ginny will be leading the discussion of A House for Mr. Biswas, so it's in wonderful hands, ALF!

Great! I love to pick Ginny's brain when we're discussing a good book. Her thoughts always seem to take a different trail than mine do.

Good Morning, This is my first visit to this site. I seldom can afford to buy new books and patiently wait until they are in the used book stores. The library in town carries what the people read the most, mysteries, westerns and romances, none of which is my choice. I found a charming book whose author I had never heard about. William M. Clark wrote stories of his home state of Maine. The only one I have is Tales of Cedar River which is composed of short tales of fictional citizens of the fictional Cedar River. Maybe it is my age but I truly enjoyed every word he wrote and bought another at Amazon's auction. Waiting anxiously for it to arrive. The archives won't open today so wonder if any other member likes his work as much as I do. Loraine

Good morning, Loraine, and welcome to the Books and to SeniorNet! We are delighted to have you.

We have not only not read but as far as I know have no knowledge of William Clark, you are the first person to bring him up that I know of, click on Search here and type in his name and see what you get, that's a good way to approach that.

So it's like...it's sort of like Sherwood Anderson's Winesburg, Ohio? Or Our Town? It sounds very appealing. I love short stories, myself, would you say the writing is spare or would you say he's verbose?

Thank you for bringing him to our attention, which of the short stories did you enjoy the most?

&ginny&

The discussion of Nobel Prize Winner V.S. Naipual's A House for Mr. Biswas begins tomorrow, February 1, 02. Please join us!

-House for Mr. Biswas, A ~ by V. S. Naipaul ~ Book Club Online~ 2/1/02

The VS Naipaul discussion I mention in my previous post has another 10 days or so to go. Please join in if you're game!

In our current discussion of Revolutionary Road, BabsNH posted a list of contenders for the Pen Faulkner Award I think it is and The Death of Vishnu was on it, and I've heard a lot about that and think it sounds super:

The Death of Vishnu by Manil Suri

A rich and poignant debut novel, which focuses on the inhabitants of a single apartment building and provides a deft portrait of contemporary Indian life.|

Manil Suri's comic prose and imaginative language transport readers to the petty squabbles and unrelenting conflicts of modern-day India. At the center of the narrative is the character of Vishnu, an aging alcoholic houseboy on the precipice of death, who lies, penniless, on the bottom step of a middle-class Bombay apartment house. While Vishnu appears to face his impending death placidly and philosophically, a maelstrom swirls around him. The residents of the building include a reclusive widower mourning the untimely death of his young wife, a Moslem family coping with the daily prejudices of their Hindu neighbors, and two families who unhappily share a kitchen. Worlds collide when the Moslem family's son elopes with the Hindu family's daughter, and Mr. Jalal, the Moslem family patriarch, apparently flips his wig, recognizing Vishnu not as their dying houseboy but as the deity whose name he bears, with the power to save. And when Mr. Jalal is found sleeping on the stairs beside Vishnu, he becomes the scapegoat for the building's many ills. In its frenetic and hilarious conclusion, The Death of Vishnu trumpets the arrival of an extremely gifted Indian writer, bringing to spectacular life the tempestuous chaos that is life in India today. (Winter 2001 Selection)

"Vibrantly alive...full of wonderfully rich and deeply human characters." --Michael Cunningham, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of The Hours

Jeepers that looks like it needs to be on some of our ballots, doesn't it? Has anybody heard more about it?

ginny

I haven't, interestingly enough, but I love fiction about/from India and will put it on a list soon to be compiled of our next Prized Fiction selection.

Folks, if you aren't already aware, the National Book Award finalist from 1961, Richard Yates' brilliant Revolutionary Road, is this month's fiction selection, along with a comparison read of Jonathan Franzen's current National Book Award winner (and now PEN/Faulkner nominee), The Corrections. If you loved Prized Fiction, please join us.

Ginny "---Revolutionary Road by Richard Yates and The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen Compared ~ Book Club Online ~ 3/1/02" 3/8/02 12:09pm

We're still reading the Corrections, and comparing it to Revolutionary Road (see link in previous post), but in case you're ready to move out of the American suburbs and over to England, join us in April 2002 to discuss the late, great Iris Murdoch's Booker Prize winner, The Sea, The Sea.

Pat Westerdale "---The Sea, The Sea ~ by Iris Murdoch ~ Book Club Online ~ 4/1/02" 3/22/02 7:01pm

Starting in July, I will co-lead a series of discussions of books by John Steinbeck, in this, the 100th anniversary of his birth.

Which books of his do you most cherish? Which should we read first?

Please post your preferences here.

I like Steinbeck... Travels with Charlie is my favorite.

Hi! I'm new to this discussion and so glad you mentioned John Steinbeck. My all time favorite is East of Eden.

Welcome, Brumie!!

This is exciting, isn't it? We have Sarah to thank for this, I was unaware that it WAS the Centennial of his birth.

And there are so many of Steinbeck I have not read, it's scary.

I loved Travels With Charlie, Pat, I think everybody should read that! I also had a wonderful time with East of Eden, Brumie, and took a course once in which we compaired the film (in black and white and James Dean no less) with the book, it was sooo fun.

And then there's the always famous Grapes of Wrath. I will admit I did not care for it much when I first read it as a callow youth, and would like to revisit it now that hopefully I have some...maybe not...hahahaha maturity.

I have always just loved The Winter of Our Discontent, have not read it for years, but every January the I think of it and this quote from Richard III which it's based on:

Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.

But I can't see, for some strange reason (and it's not about winter or Richard III) reading it in July. Maybe we can have such a long Steinbeck Series we are in January when it's over and we can read it!

OH and I've read The Red Pony too. LOOK at all these books he wrote, I have not heard of half of them, OH look there's Of Mice and Men, did you all read that?

It's amazing how many "famous" books I have missed, we will enjoy this, look: Books by John Steinbeck

ginny

Welcome Brumie - we'll use this discussion to choose our first book, which we'll read and discuss in July.

Being from Northern California, I also love Cannery Row (and often visit it!) Have never read Tortilla Flat - have meant to though. Has anyone else read it?

So, I'm hearing Grapes of Wrath, East of Eden, Travels with Charley (not fiction, but so what!), The Winter of Our Discontent, Of Mice and Men, The Red Pony, Cannery Row - lots to choose from. Let's keep hearing from folks, and at some point we'll vote!

My choice would be East of Eden.

Out here in California, a group called the California Council for the Humanities (with which I have no affiliation and which I'd never heard of until today!!) is urging all Californians to read The Grapes of Wrath this summer.

Kind of makes me want to do The Grapes of Wrath first!!!

Well, I have a fascination with the whole Monterey, CA area and took many weekend trips down there from Berkeley, a few years ago. For one thing, the color of the water there is a magical turquoise.....you can hardly believe your eyes when watching crashing waves of bright turquoise. On the subject at hand, I have a thing for cities with notorious pasts. The Cannery Row that Steinbeck chronicled (he lived there) came from a dark and wild era. Tourists that visit today come to see the world class aquarium (can't think of the name, Sarah), but can still see some of the older wharf area where fisheries once ruled.

For city size and coast placement, it reminds me of the island Galveston, TX, whose illegal gambling "joints" were owned and run by New York mobsters, before the entire city was under 10 ft. of water during the 1900 hurricane. Approximately 7,000 people died and it still remains the worst natural disaster in the U.S. Before the hurricane, it was called the "Wall Street" of the South, with many banks and the largest shipping channel of the south. After the city was destroyed, a more protected Houston was seen as a safer place to build a shipping business. As in Monterey, many come today to visit Galveston's beautiful aquarium and imagine a wild and raunchy past.

Betty

Sarah,

the prospect of doing a series on Steinbeck is really exciting.

The first book I read by this author was The Grapes of Wrath (in translation before we came here) and I remember being horrified by the arduous journey of the Joad family who left their former lives behind in dust-bowl Oklahoma to seek a decent living in California, only to find even greater trouble there. And who could ever forget Henry Fonda in the movie ? I have reread the book since and no longer feel quite the visceral outrage I had the first time; now I can see a ray of hope.

From then on I read everything by Steinbeck I could lay my hands on : Cannery Row and its sequel Sweet Thursday , The Pearl , Tortilla Flat , East of Eden and (long ago) some short stories from a collection Pictures of Heaven . It has been a labor of love for me.

Steinbeck felt for the depressed economic classes, especially the itinerant farm laborers in California, and portrayed them realistically and with compassion.

Some time ago I happened on a special TV program that featured him; I was greatly moved and also got a better understanding of the author, his background and his work.

This is just fabulous - I'm very excited you'll all be in on this "labor of love," as Traude puts it.

I'm inclined this way:

The Grapes of Wrath first

Then Cannery Row

Then East of Eden

And then, we see which way the wind blows!

Whaddya think, fellow readers?

I was fascinated by Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath," I think because it made such an impression on me during the Depression, and my second choice would be "East of Eden." this should be great!

Lorrie

I think we really owe it to any Steinbeck Series to read Travels With Charley, I think somebody who has not read that would feel that they were cheated, so I suggest that as a fourth and I would do it bi-monthly, I think, not sure?

Whatever the group and Sarah wants is super with me! So are we saying the July Book Club Online is Grapes of Wrath and that you will be leading that one, Sarah?

ginny

Yes, that will be our July 2002 selection. I'll lead the discussion.

And I agree Ginny, that we should add Travels With Charley to the list.

Folks, this is a democracy - so if you don't agree with the list (Grapes of Wrath, East of Eden, Cannery Row and Travels with Charley), speak now or forever hold your peace!!

Sound more like a marriage, Sarah! hashahahaha Speak now! I think those are splendid choices and well presented in order, too, it will be fun to revisit Grapes of Wrath again. I acknowledge I was not bowled over by it the first time, let's see if maturity adds some understanding.

(And then of course we could try the all time pinnacle: LOOK HOMEWARD, ANGEL!) Another one I didn't fully understand, but that one I loved.

ginny

The only Steinbeck I remember reading is Travels With Charley - and it's one of my favorite books of all time. I remember, in the 1970s, when our children were in high school and all had to read Travels With Charley in their literature classes - and, without exception, groaned and moaned, and hated it. And then had to listen to John and me and my mother talk about what a wonderful, wonderful book it is! I'll probably be lurking, but will look forward to Travels.

Mary

Super, Mary, please do more than lurk, now that's quite interesting because I felt the same way about Travels and can't imagine anybody NOT, but as you say the kids groaned when they read it, what's going on, I wonder!! I hope we can find out1

Wonder why it hit us so forcefully, I think it might be extremely interesting to revisit it!!

Let's DOOO!

ginny

Lurking tonight & checked in here. Well, there sure is an interesting gathering of folks here already!! Hi, Ginny, SarahT, bettyg, Lorrie, Traude and others that I haven't met yet!(Have only scanned last 10 or so posts Sarah, you're certainly taking on a big job here! Does this mean multiple titles to be read & discussed? My votes of preference would be in this order: 1. East of Eden 2. Of Mice & Men 3. Cannery Row (and the escaped frogs!) 4. Grapes of Wrath. Are y'all as happy as I am that a glorious spring is finally here!! Will look forward to final choice(s) selected for July.

Ginny, Lost my cue sheet. What am I missing from first prompt above to get that font I like w/o the serifs? Can ya help me again? Thanks!

Meg

Meg! So good to see you here and I agree with you on the Grapes but I think we're in the minority, the thinking is to take the series starting with the first book as the Book Club Online choice for July and then eitehr do a bimonthly thing or monthly thing starting after July! I'm so glad to see you!

Cheat sheet, huh? ahahah

Your fonts and colors look good to me, but here's what I use,just type this in exactly as shown:

<font color=green face="comic sans MS"> and VOILA!~

ginny

Ginny,

You've got to know by now that my mind's like a sieve!! (laughing) I have always been dyslexic when it comes to remembering numbers & codes! There are only 3 phone numbers that stay in my head!!! Phone book is heavily used in my house!

Know what's funny? I typed your "code" command in - except for one thing - I used a "?" instead of the word "face" & it caused my posting above to appear in a larger helvetica-style font! Go figure!!!

Anywhoo - Have placed all of my email addresses & code/print tips/tricks that you've taught me in a pocket sized spiral notebook as backup. Lost my address books when machine fliggibbetted a few months ago. This comic sans one now joins the others! (laughing!) Thanks bunches. Will check back to see what final decisions will be here later! Off to weed picking after some lunch!

Meg

When will you be swinging by the house? I need some major WEED PICKING going on! Helvetica, huh? Strange, that may be the default font on SN and it just reverted to that, I've seen the word Helvetica in the Enrichment Center page and that's probably why it did that.

I know what you mean, I've saved my email addresses on Floppy, have lost too many to crashes and also to new computers.

Good, hope to see you back when your yard is weed free and your fingers are green!

ginny

but her latest, SULA hasn't yet. it's a special at amazon books right now. I love her writing. . . . Claire

Just got back from vacation and read Steinbeck's To a God Unknown and Tortilla Flat, among other books. I am beginning to think To a God Unknown would make a fascinating discussion. Has anyone else read it (it's an early work, prior to Tortilla which got him his first major recognition, but very thought provoking - themes of religion, the natural world, moving west and the hardships found there, native Californians of Spanish descent, family relations, paganism - we'd have lots to discuss.

What do you think?

I thought I'd read ALL the steinbeck out there. favorite was sweet thursday and or Charlie. this sounds good to me. to a god unknown. . . . Claire

Sounds SUPER to me, never heard of it, let's go for it!!

Welcome back, Sarah!!

ginny

Okay, I'm now thinking of this lineup:

July The Grapes of Wrath

September To a God Unknown

November is a question. We could go with East of Eden or Cannery Row or Tortilla Flat or Travels with Charley, as we'd talked about earlier, but I was thinking it might be fund to do another of his lesser known works. Ginny, didn't you mention The Winter of Our Discontent as a good one?

I'm open to all of your suggestions!!

is the only one I haven't read.. while I recommend the others who are new to steinback, I'm not up for doing them again. got about ten books waiting for me to go into them. . . . claire

Winsum - I know the feeling - so many books, so little time! What books are calling out to you right now? (I'm trying to add some additional fiction titles to our summer reading schedule)

lot of them. not only the ones I got thru the book exchange but the six I picked up at the good will...fifty cents for hard backs and a quarter for paper backs ...all good authors i.e. grisham? good for me anyway. . . . Now my kid wants me to learn how to do cd's with my new mac g-4 so that I can send her large size art...650 mgs per....don't know what to do first really. . . . claire

To update: We will discuss Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath starting July 1, and To A God Unknown starting September 1. Once we've completed these two discussions, we'll assess interest in other Steinbeck novels, in this, the 100th anniversary of his birth.

I've spent the summer reading Steinbeck and his writing style is truly unique. He crams a lot of life and character into fairly small books. Tortilla Flat, Of Mice and Men and Cannery Row are all quite slender, and yet deeply memorable.

On other prized fiction topic, I've heard many say over the years - and just heard from a poster today saying it again - that certain books just didn't deserve to win one of the various literary prizes. I wonder if this topic interests you? Do you wonder what causes books to win? Are you interested in exploring the criteria of the various awards, who considers the books, how books are nominated and "short listed"? Please let me know. If there is enough interest, we'll have the discussion in this folder.

Found a nice clean looks like never read copy of Hotel du Lac at halfprice bookstore the other day for only $3.98 - I do not remember exactly what year it won the Booker but I think sometime in the 80s.

Well I'm enjoying the read - something about the rhythm reminds me of Amsterdam which won - was it two years ago - and we discussed it here in Books & Lit. And than again since it is story centered around women - discriptions of women that identify the various typical personality types - there is something about it that is reminding me of Mrs. Dollaway I'm about a third of the way into this slim book of only 184 pages. As usual as any Booker Prize winner Hotel du Lac is a good read.

Do you remember the (Nobel Prize winner) Jose Saramago book Blindness and what a thought provoking discussion it was? I went back and read the discussion in our Archives (you can always go back over a "closed" discussion by clicking on the Archives) and was reminded of his other good books, one of which I just started, called Balthazar and Blimunda. I've also heard good things about All the Names.

Have you read any Jose Saramago?

Speaking of Jose Saramago....

Did you realize that there is a new folder in the SeniorNet books called Books in Other Languages?

"---Books in Other Languages ~ New ~"

I am interested in discussing Love in the Time of Cholera in the original Spanish in October of this year. If you are interested as well, would you click on the link and let us know?

I thought Blindness was one of the most profound books we have read here on SNet. I would love to read another of his but unfortunately I do not speak nor read Spanish. (Other than Mucho dolor? Mucho dolor????)

How time flies! It is time to begin discussing The Grapes of Wrath. Please come on in and join the discussion by clicking on the link below:

Jane DeNeve "---Grapes of Wrath ~ by John Steinbeck ~Book Club Online ~ 7/1/02" 6/30/02 9:43am

The next selection in the Fiction Reader's Series here in the Books discussions is Wallace Stegner's Pulitzer Prize winning Angle of Repose. Please join Discussion Leader Traude in discussing this great author's novel:

Traude "---Angle of Repose ~ by Wallace Stegner ~ Book Club Online ~ 9/1/02" 8/8/02 5:13pm

In addition to Angle of Repose, we will be reading and discussing several novels by prize winning authors in the remaining months of this year:

October 1: Richard Russo's Empire Falls

October 20: Kazuo Ishiguro's Remains of the Day

December: Ian McEwan's Atonement and Ann Patchett's Bel Canto.

So please join us in these discussions, and in the September 1, 2002 discussion of Wallace Stegner's Angle of Repose.

Reminder - The discussion of Richard Russo's Empire Falls started October 1 and will continue through the end of the month. If you loved Nobody's Fool or Straight Man, join the discussion of another of Richard Russo's great novels:

Lorrie "---Empire Falls ~ by Richard Russo ~ Book Club Online ~ 10/1/02" 10/10/02 4:13pm

On November 20, I'll begin leading a discussion of Bel Canto, the 2002 PEN/Faulkner and Orange Prize winner by Ann Patchett. Combine Opera, a Japanese CEO and South American guerrillas and see what you get.

Come on in:

---Bel Canto ~ Ann Patchett ~ Prized Fiction ~ 11/20/02"

Bel Canto is reallllly good! I can't put it down. From the very first page when the lights go out in the Vice President's home in what feels like Peru (president descends from Japanese parents) in the midst of an aria performed for the CEO of a Japanese country that "Peru" is trying to court - you're hooked. There's plenty of time to start the book before the 20th - and it's in paper too!!

Care to join?

Jane DeNeve "---Bel Canto ~ Ann Patchett ~ Prized Fiction ~ 11/20/02" 11/8/02 11:37am

I totally agree Sarah. I am enjoying this "virtuoso performance" in Bel Canto. It's a great story, full of humor, pride and desperation.

Dr Adam Parkes's book Kazuo Ishiguro's The Remains of the Day is just full of super allusions to comparative literature and he mentions these in particular, since Julian Barnes is an author I've heard of continually and never read, and since he's a Booker Short Listed title, I think we should consider him for the new year, (AND Rushdie, AND Chekhov)

Here's what's said about a couple of his:

England, England, by Julian Barnes:

Description from The Reader's Catalog Sir Jack Pitman realizes his plan to concentrate replicas of all the principal national treasures (Stonehenge, Buckingham Palace, etc.) on the Isle of Wight. Barnes's latest novel, described by the Sunday Times of London as "a commanding imaginative achievement" was shortlisted for the Booker Prize

From the Publisher Picture an England where all the pubs are quaint, the Royals behave themselves (more or less), and the cliffs of Dover actually are white. Now imagine that the principal national treasures - from Stonehenge to Buckingham Palace are grouped together on the Isle of Wight. This is precisely the vision that Sir Jack Pitman seeks to realize: a "destination" where tourists can find replicas of Big Ben, Wembley Stadium, the National Gallery, Princess Di's grave, and even Harrods (conveniently located inside the Tower of London), and visit them all in the course of a weekend. As this land of make-believe takes on its own comic and horrible reality, Barnes delights us with a novel that is at once a philosophical inquiry, a burst of mischief, a hilarious romp, and a moving elegy about authenticity and nationality.

Flaubert's Parrot (Vintage Intl) Julian Barnes

Synopsis "Geoffrey Braithwaite, widower and retired physician, devotes his final years to a manic examination of literary 'factoids' (to borrow Mailer's term) concerning his favorite author {Gustave Flaubert}. Is Felicite's parrot, immortalized in Un Coeur Simple, the stuffed bird on display at the Hotel-Dieu, or the one at Crosset? Or is it one of several others stored in the attic of the Museum of Natural History in Rouen? Braithwaite ridicules scholars who pounce upon inconsistencies . . . but is caught up in the game himself." (Libr J)

Description from The Reader's Catalog A charming and digressive entertainment--erudite, ironical, and amusing--that hinges on a biographer's obsession with Flaubert. "A most brilliant and impressive book"--James Fenton

From the Publisher A kind of detective story, relating a cranky amateur scholar's search for the truth about Gustave Flaubert, and the obsession of this detective whose life seems to oddly mirror those of Flaubert's characters.

What People Are Saying "Delightful and enriching...a book to revel in!" —Joseph Heller

"A gem! An unashamed literary novel that is also unashamed to be readable and broadly entertaining. Bravo!" —John Irving

Just what sort of book is Flaubert's Parrot, anyway? A literary biography of 19th-century French novelist, radical, and intellectual impresario Gustave Flaubert? A meditation on the uses and misuses of language? A novel of obsession, denial, irritation, and underhanded connivery? A thriller complete with disguises, sleuthing, mysterious meetings, and unknowing targets? An extended essay on the nature of fiction itself? On the surface, at first, Julian Barnes's book is the tale of an elderly English doctor's search for some intriguing details of Flaubert's life. Geoffrey Braithwaite seems to be involved in an attempt to establish whether a particularly fine, lovely, and ancient stuffed parrot is in fact one originally "borrowed by G. Flaubert from the Museum of Rouen and placed on his worktable during the writing of Un coeur simple, where it is called Loulou, the parrot of Felicité, the principal character of the tale."

What begins as a droll and intriguing excursion into the minutiae of Flaubert's life and intellect, along with an attempt to solve the small puzzle of the parrot--or rather parrots, for there are two competing for the title of Gustave's avian confrere--soon devolves into something obscure and worrisome, the exploration of an arcane Braithwaite obsession that is perhaps even pathological. The first hint we have that all is not as it seems comes almost halfway into the book, when after a humorously cantankerous account of the inadequacies of literary critics, Braithwaite closes a chapter by saying, "Now do you understand why I hate critics? I could try and describe to you the expression in my eyes at this moment; but they are far too discoloured with rage." And from that point, things just get more and more curious, until they end in the most unexpected bang.

One passage perhaps best describes the overall effect of this extraordinary story: "You can define a net in one of two ways, depending on your point of view. Normally, you would say that it is a meshed instrument designed to catch fish. But you could, with no great injury to logic, reverse the image and define the net as a jocular lexicographer once did: he called it a collection of holes tied together with string." Julian Barnes demonstrates that it is possible to catch quite an interesting fish no matter how you define the net. --Andrew Himes

I think these sound fabulous.

I think we need to do some comparative lit.

I've ordered Rushdie's Midnight's Children, too.

I'd LOVE to do a series of Booker winners, have never read a bad one.

ginny