Welcome to the Books on Science and Technology discussion!

This is the place to tell about those interesting books you have in your collection on scientific or technological topics.

Do you have books that span all the branches of science? Or books that concentrate on just a single branch? What technologies do you have books on? We like to hear about them all.

Let the discussion begin!

I'm getting my Thinking Cap on as I expect some sharp brains to participate in this forum.

Robby

Hello Robby, nice to see you with your thinking cap on. I think I shall put mine on too.

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My own collection of science books represents most of the branches of science with an emphasis on physics and astronomy. I shall not list all the titles all at once but share them bit by bit.

An interesting science book I read recently is About Time: Einstein's Unfinished Revolution by Paul Davis. On the back cover it says:

An elegant, witty, and engaging exploration of the riddle of time...

The chapter titles will give you some idea as to what this book is about:

Chapter 1: A Very Brief History of Time
Chapter 2: Time for a Change
Chapter 3: Timewarps
Chapter 4: Black Holes: Gateways to the End of Time
Chapter 5: The Beginning of Time: When Exactly Was It?
Chapter 6: Einstein's Greatest Triumph
Chapter 7: Quantum Time
Chapter 8: Imaginary Time
Chapter 9: The Arrow of Time
Chapter 10: Backwards in Time
Chapter 11: Time Travel: Fact or Fantasy?
Chapter 12: But What Time Is it Now?
Chapter 13: Experimenting With Time.

Does that whet your appetite for reading? Not yet? The book begins with these words:

Everybody loves a hero.

Not a beginning you would expect for a book about Time, is it?

This is a fascinating book that gives one's brain a good mental workout.

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I love to hear what other interesting books on science and/or technology are being read.

I have always been intrigued about Time. That book sounds great!!

Robby

THE QUARK AND THE JAGUAR by Murray Gell-Mann

THE DANCING WU LI MASTERS by Gary Zukav

BILLIONS & BILLIONS by Carl Sagan

THE MIND'S EYE by Timothy Ferris

and there is a brand new one coming out titled EVOLUTION, author I have already forgotten, but I read a review and will be looking for it in my book store. I mostly read history, but have a lot of books about viruses, too.

Nellie, Robby, MaryPage: Hello! So glad to be here! Plan to read The Map That Changed The World. Also, there's one about women who study apes, sounds good. I'll dig out my list. Einstein is an excellent choice to begin. Thanks, Nellie.

Nellie, I received an email this morning about this new discussion and I am happy that you thought about it. I am sure that Robby and MaryPage will contribute to it in an interesting and stimulating manner because we know them from other discussions. Just wait and see.

When I read a book, I never think of it as scientific or technical yet most good books are in their own way. When a stone age woman!!! wanted to sew animal skins to make clothes, she!!! invented the needle and that was technology.

To me the functioning of the brain is the most important part of our body. We are lucky when we have the capacity to reason correctly while so many people cannot.

Some of the great books that I keep is a series called "The World's Great Thinkers". I can't say I understand everything in there, but the portion that I understand satisfies my curiosity and I can use the wisdom. Space is a relatively new interest for me and the videos I have of that are so revealing. The scientists interviewed make it easy for us to understand what they are doing.

I will avidly follow the input of sharp brians in this discussion it will feed my ever searching one.

I thought I had read somewhere that a stone age MAN had invented the needle and had sewn animal skins after having brought back the animal he had just killed. He did this after having cooked a meal for the woman who was nursingthe children.

I was hoping I could find a forum to participate in here at Senior Net where MaryPage would not find me and constantly harass me. She is everywhere!!

I believe SNetters from Virginia are meeting in Charlottesville a week from today. Perhaps she will not be there.

Robby

MaryPage, nice to see you here! That is a good list of science books. I have The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Zukav but none of the others. I do have The Red Limit by Ferris, and while The Mind's Eye sounds familiar, I can't recall if I have it. I have Broca's Brain by Sagan and also The Dragons of Eden

Mrs. Watson, welcome! I look forwards to the many interesting titles/books you have on your list. Can you tell a bit more about The Map That Changed the World? I'm intreged by the title.

Welcome Eloise! I hope that we can give your brain and our own brains some good exercise here.

I give here a quote from About Time pages 32 and 33:

Einstein's theory of relativity introduced into physics a notion of time that is intrinsically flexible. Although it did not quite restore the ancient mystical ideas of time as essentially personal and subjective, it did tie the experience of time firmly to the individual observer. No longer could one talk of the time-only my time and your time, depending on how we are moving. To use the catch phrase: time is relative.

to think about.

Robby, yuch, I'd hate to be wearing clothes made out of a skin cut freshly from the animal. Now that makes me wonder how people came up with the idea of curing hides and animal skins to make them suitable for use as clothing and so forth?

Again, nice to see you all here

The Map That Changed The World is written by the same author who wrote The Professor and The Mad Man which was about the OED. This time, a man named Smith in the early 19th century noticed that coal mines were laid out in strata and that different strata had different fossils. From that observation, he went on to develop the science of geology, and Darwin's Theory of Evolution is one result. (My son is reading it now, so this is my memory of the book jacket description and may be wrong. The book jacket, btw, is a copy of the hand-drawn map of England he produced. We love maps, and I'm wondering if we sacrifice the jacket so we can hang the map, or vice versa.) Robby: you and MaryPage stop flirting!

Mrs. Watson, that book does sound interesting to me. I shall have to see if I can get it and read it.

MaryPage, I very faintly remember hearing about both the annus horribilus and the annus mirabilis but shall have to think a while about your question.

Another good book: A Brief History of Time by Hawkins.

Mrs. Watson:

Is that what it is? Men are the last to know.

Robby

Mrs Watson - It is the first time on SeniorNet (4 years) that I address someone as 'Mrs'. It is usually a first name or a handle. Somehow it feels very dignified.

I just wanted to tell you that I share your love of maps. This afternoon, I looked in a very recent huge dictionary and it is full of colored maps. They tell you about history, archeology, sociology, wars, topography. geography, geology, etc. by just looking at it as it evokes thoughts about the people living in the countries on the map. I would like to read the book on 'The Map that Changed The World'. Thanks for telling us about it.

Eloïse

Eloise: "Mrs" is part of my nome de SeniorNet. I have found that masquerading allows previously undiscovered whimsical parts of my personality to emerge. "Mrs. Watson" is the second wife of Dr. John Watson,Sherlock Homes' biographer. I have decided that her first name is Esme. You may address me how you wish, but be warned, I'm never sure what will appear on the screen when I'm typing in this box! BTW, what is the title of that dictionary you describe so enticingly? Sounds sort of like an atlas I used to have, which graphically displayed the world in terms of relative size of various things; esoteric things like chromium production where the major producer would be portrayed as very large, and the US would be tiny, tiny. Fascinating to browse.

Mrs Watson - Really!!! I knew about Dr Watson, but not a Mrs. W. Cute.

On Sunday I spent a few hours picking apples, they are like grapes on the trees this year, near my student's house on the South Shore of Montreal. After, we went to her house. She is an avid reader. All the time, she works with "Le Grand Larousse Illustré 2001" it is a pernanent fixture besides her computer. I had told her I was looking for a proper name dictionary either in French or in English. In this one, there are full color maps, famous people and politicians. I could spend hours just browsing through. She is looking to get me one in French because they don't have one at Capters Book store. Its not quite like an encyclopedia just a complete dictionary made in France.

Eloïse

Eloise, my eyes perked up at reading your mention of Larousse because I have two books from them. I have The Larousse Encyclopedia of Animal Life and The New Larousse Encyclopedia of the Earth and both provide interesting information on their subject matter even though my copies are somewhat dated.

I had a dentist appointment this morning, from which I just returned, and while waiting for my turn I was looking through a book on the history of dentistry. There is a lot of technology involved in dentistry. There are a lot of interesting books of a science and technology nature on the bookshelf there. I'm always disappointed when I hear my name called and have to put down the book I'm looking at.

{{{hugs}}}

Nellie - I didn't know that a Larousse was available in English? I never saw one in Montreal.

MaryPage - OK now we all know. So how about telling us what Annus Mirabilis is for crying out loud so I can sleep at night? I'll see you in Williamsport soon my far away cousin, it is going to be so exciting that I will not recover from that trip for weeks afterwards.

Eloïse

Eloise, MaryPage: Will you have Lobster Rolls when you get together? I mentioned LRs to some of my friends, we were trying to imagine how they would taste, but first, they had to learn I was not talking about sushi! Annus Mirabilis, 1667, wasn't that the year of the London Fire? I remember it well.

MaryPage - Could you tell Mrs. Watson where we are all going on the 11th of Oct. so she will know what we are talking about. I don't know anything about Annus Mirabilis, so better spill it out or I will BASH you over the head with it.

Mrs. Watson - I have never tasted Lobster Rolls here in Montreal I guess because its too expensive here. What made you think of that I would like to know. Better get used to MaryPage, she is always like this, impossible.

Eloïse

Eloise: MaryPage is always rushing off and meeting people who sit on the dock/wharf with her and scarf lobster rolls and drink, I forget what. Anyway, as a seafood lover who can't remember when last I tasted lobster, I am covetous.

MaryPage - There are geniuses on this planet and Isaac Newton is not the only one. I will retract my BASH and won't hit you now that I can sleep. But who decided that that year should be called it Annus Mirabilis, do you know? Do say hello to Maryal whom I was going to meet in Washington Bookfest but I might see her in the Spring God willing.

I love lobster too Mrs. Watson and a lobster roll sounds just scrumptious but without potatoes though.

John Dryden named the year. I think he was actually referring to the period of 1665/66, but he wrote the poem in 1667, and ever since that the year has been so called.

Eloise, I bought the two Larousse encyclopedias that I have some thirty years ago in a small bookstore in Red Deer where I lived and worked at the time.

MaryPage, all along I had been thinking that the 'annus mirabilis' had something to do with Isaac Newton because at some point I had read about it or heard it mentioned. Nice to know that my memory is not as bad as I think it is.

Did you ever read the Principia? I haven't. It is one of those books which I keep wanting to read 'one of these days' and somehow never do.

I have The Origin of Species in my collection also.

My mouth is watering from reading about that delicious lobster roll. I have eaten only one of those in my life -so far- at a place in Nova Scotia -I think it was called The Lobster Shack- which looked like an old shack inside of which was a big tank of seawater with hundreds of lobsters crawling around in it and long wooden tables with benches to sit at. We went there twice: the first time I had a whole lobster and the second time I had a lobster roll.

MaryPage: Where does it say that we have be knowledgeable about what we read? That clause isn't in my contract! I never would have signed such a thing. I read them, knowledgeable or not! And nobody better try to stop me!

I agree with Mrs. Watson and would add to that that I would read a book like the Principia or other science books to become more knowledgable.

Good conversation, all of you!

A discussion about "Time" was originally mentioned. I still like that idea. Also, wouldn't Darwin's "Origin of Species" fit in here? I would like that too.

Robby

Me Three!

I don't mind at all when we discuss either topic or book. Both the subject of time and the subject of evolution are very interesting. But I have one question: are we going to discuss books or just the topics?

Does everyone have a copy of Origin of Species by Darwin? If so then we could begin with that?

Robby, do you want to discuss 'time' or the book About Time? It will be easiest if everyone had a copy; but I could quote bits for us to discuss.

We can discuss anything that is of interest

I got a fascinating new book today as sort of an early birthday present: The Secret Life of Dust by Hannah Holmes. From the front flap:

Humble dust, we discover, built the very planet we walk upon. It tinkers with the weather and it spices the air we breathe. Billions of tons of tiny particles rise into the air annually - the dust of deserts and forgotten kings mixing with volcanic ash, sea salt, leaf fragments, scales from butterfly wings, shreds of T-shirts, and fireplace soot. And eventually, of course, all this dust must settle.

I have Darwin's book so can discuss the book. I do not have your book on time but have other books about time and could discuss the topic.

Robby

Robby, I'm thinking that discussing 'time' as a topic and refering to the books that we have would be the best thing to do. We could save Origin of Species for an actual book discussion because this is a general book discussion and it would seem strange to me to be doing a specific book -not something I have seen done in any of the other general discussions.

Let's wait and see what the others say.

Well, I have neither book, but ignorance has never stopped me before. Seriously, I would be interested in reading both books, and discussing them as well. Time is more general than evolution. I hope we would not be debating evolution pro and con? Not having read about time, I'm not sure what encompasses this subject. Would this be Einstein's theories about time? The physics of time? What about the 4th dimension and dimensional theory?

I agree about not discussing evolution "pro and con." If we ever get to that topic, I would want to go through Darwin's book and discuss his thoughts and activities. In that way we would get to his "conclusions" about evolution.

Robby

Mrs. Watson, we could discuss all those aspects of time. The book About Time is mainly about Einstein's theories on time; but the other aspects interest me as well.

Robby, Mrs. Watson, I wouldn't want to discuss the pros and cons of evolution at all -too great a chance of a flame war. It would be interesting to discuss the book and Darwin's thoughts presented therein. If you have not read The Origin of Species then you are probably in for a surprise because it is different from what you would expect. But I don't think that this is a book that could ever be discussed without it degenerating into an evolution pro and con discussion.

Shall we begin with time in a general way?

Maybe we could do a Darwin biography, wherein evolution would be incidental. It galls me to have my choices dictated by negativeness. I certainly understand your feelings, MaryPaige. I guess you are right, though. Mutter, mutter, mutter...

There is such a thing as a few of us serious people discussing with each other, responding to each other's posts, and COMPLETELY ignoring their comments.

Robby

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to ignore senseless sounds, like coyotes yapping at the moon. Does everybody get to pick on Robby, or does MaryPaige have exclusive rights?

Robby, you are the sensible one. Of course serious people like us, and even ones with a sense of humour and mischief, can discuss a book like The Origin of Species and not pay attention to comments unrelated to the book.

Did you know that the full title is: The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection?

But I thought we were going to discuss something less contoversial -like 'time'?

You mean "time" is not controversial?

Robby

Hey, we got a topic, Time, pro and con!

We'd better move fast before we run out of time.

Robby

As many of you know I am giving away about 90% of my home library of some 2,000 books in the Book Exchange folder. Most of these are non-fiction and many many years ago I bought a book called "The Book of Time." I have been hunting through the remaining books and cannot find it. I know -- I just KNOW -- I didn't give that one away as the subject has always intrigued me. The chapters are entitled "Astronomical Time," "Chronological Time," "Biological Time," etc, etc. With this discussion about to begin, I sure wish I could find that book. I'll probably find it after we have ended the discussion.

Robby

There should be more words than one to describe 'time' but there isn't.

I have transcripts of scientific, fascinating information in a recent space television series for which I transcribed about 20 interviews of scientists. They mention that time was a major element hard to define with accuracy. Those interviews were very thought provoking.

I am very interested in a discussion about 'time' especially with such an interesting group of people.

Eloïse

MaryPage, explain, please, your saying that 'time does not exist'. Do you mean that it does not exist as a stand-alone entity? I'm just curious -more or less.

Eloise, yes it is strange that there are not more words to describe time, or even more words for time. The only word I can think of, off the top of my head, that could mean time is duration -but that is more how long a time something lasts or takes.

Robby, could 'time' be a controversial subject? I think that any discussion of 'time' eventually leads to Einstein's theory of relativity and, believe it or not, that can lead to controversy - and not of the scientific kind.

That book of yours sounds really interesting. I hope that you find it in time.

Some thoughts from About Time: in Prologue, Davies says that time was first seen as being part of nature; that it was organic, subjective, cyclic. Then Newton came along and took time out of its place in nature and gave it an abstract, independent existence. Finally, Einstein in his turn put time back at the heart of nature.

He also says that no one has really been able to say exactly what time is: St. Augustine of Hippo said that if no one asked him, then he knew ; but if someone asked him, then he could not give an answer.

Can we say what we think time is? Let's give it a try!

Let me share what is a common conversation with some of my patients.

They say: "I would have done it but I didn't have time."
I say: "Let's say you start off the morning with 12 things to do. At the end of the day you have done 8 and you tell me you didn't have time to do the other four."
I reply: "Yes, you could have done those four. How could you have done them?"

What would your answer have been? How could you have done those four?

Robby

Robby - When I was really strapped for time was when I had 6 children in 8 years, twins and a baby in cloth diapers, no washer, no dryer no dishwasher. I was an extremely fast worker and I had a schedule as tight as in the army. If there were 20 things I had to do on that day I did NOT just do things as I fancied first but I prioritized. I developed a system to save steps and always made room for moments of pleasurable things to do, like getting together in the afternoon for tea with friends. That way all my work got done because I had a nice BREAK.

But we can't be too organized, or else our personality becomes rigid and nobody want anything to do with us. We have to be also flexible. But who's perfect?

The most loveable people I ever met were disorganized and never went by a schedule. It takes both kinds to make a world.

Eloïse

Eloise says: "I prioritized."

And that's exactly it. I would say to my patients. Just put those four on the top of the list and you can do them. Of course, you might have another four not done at the end of the day. But you DID have time for those original four.

This is all low-tech stuff (far below what we will probably discuss here) but my point is that we often use the term "time" when we mean "priority."

Robby

Robby, Eloise, Nellie: Funny, sounds as if all of you are saying that time, subjectively, is equal. I have times at work when the brain is dead, so I switch priorities, and do something right brain for a change. Is right brain time equal to left brain time? Not to me in my scheduling of tasks. Subjectively, my times are different. Objectively, well, that is the question, isn't it?

In French the word "time" can mean: 'le temps', the weather. 'En temps normal', in normal circumstances. 'Dans mon jeune temps' in my younger days. 'Le temps d'un verbe' verb tense. 'Dans le bon vieux temps' in the good old days. The English language finds different words to express such a vast concept. That is why it is such a vibrant and exact language.

We use the word 'time' broadly when we should be searching for a better one. What I understand when one says "I don't have time" is a short cut for saying "I can't do that right now because I have to do something else instead".

Mrs Watson - Do you mean "is left brain 'thoughts' equal to right brain thoughts?".

Eloïse

Eloise: Not thoughts; more like brain capacity, or mentation. When I've spent the day intensively in left brain activity, I reach a point where it feels like the brain doesn't work anymore. So I switch to right brain things, and it is like a battery recharge. Calling this "time" is a misnomer, as you point out so charmingly in various French phrases.

In this forum, can we relate time to aging and/or development? Is THIS something we can sink our teeth into?

Robby

"Old-old" is 85 and by the time I reach that, the definition will have changed.

Robby

Exactly MaryPage - Time is an earthly invention. But to say it does not exist, I would have to try to understand how you explain this. I agree to the rest of what you say and for a person living on another planet out of our solar system, time would not have the same explanation of the word as we do. Time exists in a certain form of measurement of what goes one between one moment and another.

Bring out the experts but make it easy to understand for me. I would have to read Einstein's book to see what he writes about it.

I don't know why you say that you don't have the expertise and we need to consult scientists about 'time'. I heard them say exactly what you just said in an interview except that it is perfection or exactitute which does not exist even for scientists when it comes to the concept of 'time'.

In time, I will look up my transcripts but for now, I am happy just to watch us groping our way through.

Eloïse

This was a posting from Marcie in another forum:--

Marcie Schwarz - 01:06pm Oct 3, 2001 PDT (#111 of 112) SeniorNet Director of Education

"The Origin of Species sounds like a great selection. I watched the recent series on Evolution on PBS and was wondering if anyone was going to propose discussing the topic. I think that you are right that you may get some arguments from those who believe in the literal creation. You would have to plan how to respond to that. In the Evolution series, they left that discussion to the last part of the series. You might indicate that, if there is any interest, the group would address the controversy in the last part of the discussion but not before."

I'm for either. Just wanted to share Marcie's thoughts.

Robby

Robby, you ask if we can relate time -shouldn't we be using 'Time' with a capital T here?- to aging and development? Of course we can. After all, isn't that what Time is all about: duration and change?

I think that every object in the universe, organic or inorganic, living or not living, has these qualities in common: the physical dimensions of length, width, and height (or depth); every object also has a set of coordinates associated with it that denotes its position in the universe -these change as the object moves or is moved; and finally every object in the universe has 'duration'.

OK I'd better post this while my modem light is on...

A few more bits from About Time by Davies:

So, as we go about our daily toil, the Bonn cesium-beam clock keeps the time. It is, so to speak, a custodian of Earth time. ...But whose time is the Bonn clock telling anyway? Your time? My time? God's time? Are the scientists in that cluttered laboratory monitoring the pulse of the universe, fastidiously tracking some abstract cosmic time with atomic fidelity? Might there be another clock, perhaps on another planet somewhere, faithfully ticking out another time altogether, to the joy of its makers?

I think it might be interesting to attempt to answer some of the questions in the quote. What do you think?

Nellie: it seems we will be exploring the interface between science and philosophy when we discuss those topics. We can explore Darwin, also, when we get to him, in light of the interesting comments in The Curious Mind. Mind's discussions range far and wide with more than one thread. My mind has been less than sparkling lately, and I have not followed these easily. But the synapses are firing again, slowly, so I'll try not to be a drag. Time knits up the raveled sleeve of care,doesn't it?

Mrs. Watson, I guess your mind goes to sleep once in a while like mine seems to do?

The interface between science and philosophy is an interesting place, don't you think?

While we all take the time to let our minds rest and refresh, I have a must read book to suggest -and if I mentioned it before, forgive me; I can't always remember where I mentioned what. The book is The Secret Life of Dust by Hannah Holmes and has to be one of the most fascinating books I've read in a long long long time. Actually I'm still reading, but it is super interesting.

Sleep. Sleep. Sleep knits up the ravelled sleeve of care. So, when are we tackling Einstein? Darwin? I'm not doing anything much right now, just reading Shipping News, John Adams, Edna St. Vincent Millay's poetry, Captain Bligh, not counting my ususal bedtime reading of mysteries and science fiction. I'm ready.

Good heaven's Mrs. Watson! I would like to see your reading list when you are busy!

We can tackle Einstein and his ideas on time or anything else any time you wish. Maybe I should see if I can find my copy of Spacetime Physics by Wheeler and...in fact I have a whole bunch of good Sci-Tech books that I want to find and read again.

I don't know about Darwin. There is not much interest in Origin of Species but we could discuss it here in a general way, if we want.

MaryPage, I noticed that -so I don't think that we need to talk about him or his ideas in here. Do we?

Does anyone have some good books on technology that they can share with us?

The discussion group on "The Story of Civilization" has not yet come into the planning stage. We are just talking about it and it depends on how many people are interested.

Robby

We have to sell the idea to Marcie and Ginny and they will consider how much interest there is.

Robby

This is not about a book, but this is a fantastic website: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html. It is a fantastic view of the entire earth at night, made from a series of satellite photos. I could stare at it for hours, so much to see.

I once read a remark in a long ago book, that time has two aspects: Time as trend, and Time as mere duration. That intrigued me. Has anyone else considered time in this way?

Time as duration. One can set any instant as the zeroth instant, as when measuring an athletes race time with a stop watch etc. The duration is measured by 'adding all the instants together' to get the elapsed time taken for the race to be run. This elapsed time is arbitrary, and the measurement can be taken at anytime of day, year, century, or whenever.

Time as trend. This aspect of time is measured with a calendar, and we give each day a fixed number, or date like 2/10/2001, etc. In this way, time as trend is subtly different from durational time. The year 1666 is quite different from the year 2001. The universe has aged during the passage of those intervening years, it has evolved. We cannot tell one instant from another while using a stop watch, but we see clearly the difference between 24 Oct 1666 and 24 Oct 2001. It is as if the trend aspect was set by the Universe, while duration was determined by purely local influences.

I think of time as trend as being Darwin's time, and time as duration being the time that Einstein grappled with. To me these two aspects look quite different. I wonder if this could be the explaination for the paradox of the Relativistic Twins, where one remains at home, the other takes a journey at high speed in a rocket. The duration that each measures for the journey is according to Einstein, quite different for each twin. The question is, would they be the same age when they met after the flight. Einstein would say no. Many others would say yes. What do you folk think?-- Trevor

It seems as if our vocabulary is inadequate. These are two very different qualities. And the answer depends on which quality, aspect, of time one measures by.

Mrs. Watson, interesting link -I saved it to my favourites to look at some more of the pictures later.

3Kings, you have presented some interesting thoughts on time. I think that time as duration is merely about the passage of time as measured with a clock or a stopwatch. But I think that time as trend is time as duration plus the changes that happen in space-time during that period. For instance in the race example: for the duration of the race the spacial position of each racer, or even one racer -if he races against the clock-will change with each passing second or tenth of a second. So while there may be no discernable difference in those moments of time as counted by the stopwatch or clock, there are very pronounced differences when one takes the larger viewpoint.

I have to think about that twins one -need to refresh my memory before I can comment sensibilly.

While digging through a box full of books looking for a photo album, I found a bunch of my old science books. Here are the titles in no particular order:

Spacetime Physics by Taylor and Wheeler.
Our Turbulent Sun by Kendrick Frazier
Doomsday: The Science of Catastrophe by Fred Warshofsky
A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawkins
The Ambidextrous Universe by Martin Gardner
The Weather Wizard's Cloud Book by Louis D. Rubin Sr. & Jim Duncan.

What science books do you have in your collection?

Recent: Gallileo's Daughter, The Map That Changed The World, The Measure of Reality, some books on: codes & ciphers, astronomy, geology (plate techtonics, volcanoes, earthquakes).

I found an interesting link to a site that, while it is not about a book, fits in with our discussion topic:

Cambridge Relativity

The site touches on Cosmology, Black Holes, Cosmic Strings and so on. Here is a quote from the site that makes me think:

If we see light coming from a distant source one million light years away, we are seeing the object not as it is now, but how it was one million years ago.

Makes one wonder what the universe really looks like at this point, and how different the night sky would appear to us?

I found a couple more books from my science and tech collection: both are by Carl Sagan:

The Dragons of Eden
Broca's Brain

Any thoughts on a book we could discuss? There is always Darwin's Origin of Species but there might be others that are equally as interesting.

Nellie: I have not read it, but one of the holiday book catalogs listed a book called Go To - The Story of the Math Majors, Bridge Players, Engineers, Chess Wizards, Maverick Scientists and iconclasts - The Programmers Who Created the Software Revolution. Author is Steve Lohr. That aroused my curiosity, since I am a computer nut who took one course of FORTRAN IV twenty years ago! Another listing: E=MC2: A Biography of the World's Most Famous Equation. NPR has a show called Science Friday which each year around this time reviews the year's science books; listeners also call in with their favorites. The list is available on the internet. I always listen, and get may interesting suggestions.

Mrs. Watson, those all sound like interesting books. Would you by any chance have a URL for that NPR list of science and tech books? I'd love to have a look at it.

Nellie: I'll get you the URL and send it to you. Another book we will be reading in this household is Tsunami. We are all avid amateur geologists, living in a valley bracketed by major earthquake faults, and so close to several active volcanoes, so we read everything about those subjects we can. Will report back on Tsunami later.

Mrs.Watson, do you by any chance have Broca's Brain by Carl Sagan? -and that goes for everyone else too. Since it contains a variety of essays I thought it might be fun to discuss one or two. What do you think?

I used to have it, but haven't seen it in years, so assume that is has gone bye-bye. But I will pick it up. What essays would you like to discuss? Was this about the part of the human brain that is reptilian? Or am I mixing up another brain book?

The Science Friday Bookshelf can be found at: http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/biz/books/index.shtml

They have a summer list of books, and the holiday book show will be upcoming. Nellie, do you have access to NPR? The homepage for NPR lets you choose a station near you. I know nothing about radio in Canada. You would probably enjoy the two hours each Friday. You can see the schedule at the website. Tomorrow they present the broadcast of the annual Ig Noble Prizes, a laugh-a-thon presented by MIT, and including many nobel winners among the announcers of various "prizes". I am checking to see if Broca's Brain is hidden in one of the stacks of books in my house. Will get back to you on that.

Mrs. Watson, I think it is Sagan's The Dragons of Eden that is about our reptilian brain -if I remember right. Broca's Brain contains an eclectic collection of essay grouped together under the following subject headings:

Science and Human Concern
The Paradoxers
Our Neighbourhood in Space
The Future
Ultimate Questions

Thanks for the link. I'll peruse it at more length later on. I don't think I can get NPR and am not really much of a radio listener. Now I'll have to decide if I want more RAM in my computer or new books for Christmas...not an easy decision to make.

I want more RAM, too, but not enough to give up books!

Mrs. Watson, I want both! Books will be cheaper because when I get all the RAM I want, I will be seriously tempted to get the new Windows XP. But I also have to decide if I should leave this computer as it is and then later on get a newer one -I like that idea even better I think.

Decisions, decisions.

On my Science and Tech books wish list are the following books -so far.

The Universe in a Nutshell by stephen Hawking

The Botany of Desire by Michael Pollan

The Fabric of Reality by David Deutsch

What books are on your wish list?

That will take some thought. Already mentioned is Tsunami. Also the Hawking book.

Your reading lists sound so interesting. This afternoon I received an box of books I'd ordered as Christmas gifts. The Botany of Desire is among them, for my mother, as well as The Beak of The Finch which looks to be fascinating.

Judy/CA

The Beak of the Finch! IS that about Darwin? Isn't that how he began to think of selective breeding, by realizing that a finch's beak differed according to the type of food it ate? Tell us more, please.

I haven't read the book so I can't offer much in the way of a review. It is a gift for my mother and when she finishes it I know she will pass it on to me. One of my sisters traveled to the Galapagos Islands a few years ago and our family in general is interested in this genre. The book is written by Jonathan Weiner.

Condensing some of the back cover remarks; two scientists spent almost two decades proving that Darwin did not know the strength of his own theory. Among the finches of one of the islands (Daphne Major) natural selection is neither rare nor slow: it is taking place by the hour, and we can watch. They watch Darwin's finches and come up with a new understanding of life itself.

In the beginning of the book it states that during that almost twenty year period scientists, Peter and Rosemary Grant, observed about twenty generations of finches and watch as nature alters the beaks of the finchs from generation to generation to help them survive.It suggests that Darwin spent only about 5 weeks in the Galapagos developing evidence that evolution has happened but he "never saw it happen."

I don't want to bend the pages so I'll just have to wait to read it. Unless I order another for myself. <G> It has marvelous reviews and looks enticing.

Judy/CA

Welcome to the discussion Judy! I've already added The Beak of the Finch to my wishlist and it sounds like a must get book to me!

What other interesting books do you have in your collection on the subjects of science or technology?

I just realized that I have lots of science books but not one single technology book. Do you think it is time for me to rectify that situation? Any good ones to recommend?

Nellie: It is an oldie but it was a goodie. The Soul of the New Machine, about 20 years ago, was written by a reporter who observed the development of a new computer from the engineer's viewpoint. It was so exciting! I'll have to find it, I lent my copy and never got it back. There is another one, can't remember the name, about how engineers turn ideas into products. Sounds good. Another one, I'll do research on this, about the design of the products the engineers develop written by a designer.

Mrs. Watson, I've heard of The Soul of a New Machine but can't remember ever reading it.

Mom and I are always fascinated by the machinery in the factories they sometimes show on This Old House. It would be interesting to find a book that tells how they come up with those machines.

I haven't had a chance to look around the online bookstores like B&N to see what titles they have.

LOL my mother was saying to me that when we win a big lottery I could just go and buy a whole bookstore and keep the whole thing for myself. I told her I might invite my friends to come and enjoy some of the books

Your momknow how to dream! I never thought of a whole book store. I do fantasize about being able to order all the books I want to read, but how would I keep track? Tiger Tom says he has stacks of unread books, and others say the same. When I get new books, I have to read them right away, but I get them only in ones and threes.

I have quite a stack of unread new books too. I like to have books in reserve just in case there is a time I can't get any more new ones. I usually read at least one new book and one old one.

I've recently signed up for Seniornet because the book department was such a wheelbarrow full of surprises - & everybody reading anything & everything. This exchange of views on scientific books has been rivetting reading - especially as I had only read a few of the books everybody mentioned. I have started making a list of wants already.

The best book I read recently - with only a minor yuk-factor - was Carl Zimmer's "Parasite Rex". After reading Annie Dillard's desriptions of parasites in "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek" a long time ago, I kept thinking I should get a book about them if I was that fascinated. Parasites evolved along with everything else which accounts for there being so many of them. After reading Carl Zimmer, I think if I reincarnate, I'll come back as a river fluke - a life of pure bliss.

You make that subject so enticing! Have been waiting for Science Friday to do their book show, so far nada. Maybe this week.

Welcome viogert! I've never thought of reading a book on parasites. Yet they are interesting creatures living as they do off other living things.

So a river fluke lives a life of bliss? I know I wouldn't want to come back as a tapeworm because the living quarters don't seem like some place I would want to be, even as a tapeworm.

Some more books for the wish list:
Rare and Elusive Birds by William Burt
How Stuff works by Marshall Brain
Totally Absurd Inventions by Ted VanCleave
The Invisible Future by Peter J. Denning.

I can only choose one or perhaps two of the books on my wish list.

Where reading is concerned, I'm in favour of opportunism & greed. You must find more books for your list Nellie & add them on - there is often magic in midwinter that will bring books zooming towards you. You have to guide Fate a bit. Har har.

I am reading "The Seven Daughters Of Eve" by Professor Bryan Sykes. In it he tells the story of how he showed that 95% of the 'white race' is descended from only 7 women. He explains how the lineage can be traced through mitochondrial DNA, back through our female ancestors.

I find the book very interesting and easy to read. I recomend you add it to your list for winter reading.-- Trevor

Trevor: Seven Daughters of Eve sounds as if it might be a good one for a discussion group. I'm definitely going to read that one. Thanks.

LOL I think my list is growing longer already by at least two more titles! One is Seven Daughters of Eve recommended by 3kings -thank you for that!- and the other is The Forgiveness of Nature: The Story of Grass by Graham Harvey.

viogert, sooner or later I will have quite a few of the titles on my list

Hark: Science Friday, on NPR, has its book show this week. The two-hour program will consist of : [Science Friday Home] [NPR Online]

Call in! 1-800-989-8255 1-800-989-TALK

Write us! scifri@sciencefriday.com

Science Friday c/o WNYC Radio 1 Centre St New York, NY 10007

Coming This Week: Friday, December 14, 2001

Tune in this week and you'll hear about the debate over mammography, about using bacteriophages to fight antibiotic resistant bacteria, a discussion of the basic goals of physics research, and our annual holiday rundown of science books and gifts.

This excludes me - I can't tune in - being in England, but I have spent a good part of today trying to hunt down a lay person's guide to 'Structure of the bacteriophage phi29DNA packaging motor', (Nature 407,745-750. 2000) & Self-assembly of regular hollow icosahedra in salt-free catanionic solutions' (Nature 411, 672-675). There is a lay-person article in my daily paper about research into 'phages because they are - he says very simple structures but very ingenious. They are parasitic viruses that prey on bacteria. They are not alive as such & are highly symetrical crystalline structures. There is a picture of them - taken with an electron microscope with their five-sided heads, stalk necks & six spindly legs bouncing about on a bacteria. They are self-assembling & spring to life in the presence of a host bacteria. The researchers hope to make their own self-assembling machines from proteins & silicon chips using DNA & ATP or synthetics very like them.

This research is being done, it says here, at Purdue University, Indiana under Michael G Rossman & his team, I looked up the papers in Nature, but there was a lot of jargon - as you'd imagine. Anybody interested in this stuff or know of a book about self-assembling phages? An elementary introduction?

I emailed the paper, I rang the paper - the department had gone out for a drink so I got tired & had a lie down.

viogert, I have books that have bits on biophages in them but they are not at a layman's level. Those sound like interesting articles -I'll have to see if I can find Nature online to read them. I have my Bsc. in Microbiology so I studied this subject while in university.

Thanks for stopping by here viogert and Mrs. Watson, your posts are always interesting and enjoyable to read.

Sorry you can't listen, viogert, but the web site offers iinformation about the shows each week. I will post the books recommended, and the section of the show on 'phages might include book info. Authors frequently drop by to tout their science/technology books. 'Phages may be an interesting area to invest. Hmmm...

It would be lovely if either of you found anything on the subject of phages (with pictures)& the progress of the research into making near-live predators of bacteria. Or found an author looking for an enthusiast who talked a lot & would tell everybody about his book on his research. When people ask what is the greatest invention of the last 100 years, I think it's the electron microscope. I always felt there was more of the universe to be found looking inward - if we could - than outward to the galaxies. Is it Blake "..the world in a grain of sand"?

Viogert: Sorry, I heard only parts of the phages portion. However, sounds really exciting. The article in Science, you said, was hard to understand? I'll email the show and see if they have any suggestions on reading about phages.

The sources Peter Forbes gave at the end of his essay were: Structure of the Bacteriophage phi20 DNA packaging motor. 'Nature, 407, 745-750(2000)

Self-assembly of regular hollow icosahedra in salt-free catanionic solutions. Nature,411, 672-675 (2001)

I found the relevant pages alright, but it looked like I would be looking up the meanings of all the words one at a time. In fact it might be right over my head, but the article in The Guardian wasn't.

I have just enough time to leave a link to a warning about a hoax:

Symantec sulfnbk.exe hoax information

Science Friday's Book List:

The Science Friday Bookshelf Books Discussed Dec 14, 2001 "City of Stars: A New Yorker's Guide to the Cosmos" edited by Neil Tyson

Stephen Hawking, "The Universe in a Nutshell," by Bantam Dell publications.

J. Richard Gott III's "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe: The Physical Possibilities of Travel Through Time," from Houghton Miflin.

Martin Rees, "Our Cosmic Habitat"

Frederick Ordway "Visions of Space Flight: Images from the Ordway Collection."

Jennifer Ackerman's "Chance in the House of Fate: A Natural History of Heredity," out from Houghton Miflin.

Mark Ridley's "The Cooperative Gene : How Mendel's Demon Explains the Evolution of Complex Beings"

Sue Hubbell's "Shrinking the Cat: Genetic Engineering Before We Knew About Genes,"

"Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" by Richard Feynman,

Oliver Sacks, "Uncle Tungsten: Memories of a Chemical Boyhood"

Joanna Burger's "The Parrot Who Owns Me: The Story of a Relationship," out from VillardBooks.

Robert Sapolsky's "A Primate's Memoir"

Bill Weber and Amy Vedder's "In the Kingdom of Gorillas: Fragile Species in a Dangerous Land," out from Simon & Schuster.

"This Organic Life : Confessions of a Suburban Homesteader" by Joan Dye Gussow

Michael Pollan, "The Botany of Desire: A Plant's-Eye View of the World."

John Avise, "Captivating Life: A Naturalist in the Age of Genetics."

Alan Rabinowitz's "Beyond the Last Village: A Journey of Discovery in Asia's Forbidden Wilderness," out from Island Press.

"The Sibley Guide to Bird Life and Behavior" by David Allen Sibley

As the Future Catches You Juan Enriquez

Germs Judith Miller

Fast Food Nation Eric Schlosser

Pocket Ref Thomas J. Glover

Where Is Baby's Belly Button? Karen Katz

Marshall Brain's How Stuff Works Marshall Brain

The Art of War Sun Tzu









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check Out This Book By Our Host, Ira Flatow!









Science Friday® is produced by Samanna Productions, Inc., in association with NPR member station WNYC/New York, and is a registered service mark. Copyright 2001 Samanna Productions, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Thanks for providing that list, Mrs. Watson!

I want them all!!!

Me too Mrs Watson - just stuff them all in my stocking - especially the one called "GERMS". Sounds lethal ha ha

I was hoping to find at least one book on that list for Christmas but try as I would I didn't see any on the book store shelves. I suppose I will have to get them online when I can. The first one I want is The Botany of Desire since I'd like to know how all those plants I have in my garden are manipulating me.

Did you get the books you wanted for Christmas?

I got books for Christmas. And a gift order for Barnes & Noble. How about you, was Santa good to you?

I was very impressed with your pre-Christmas list - apart from the "Germs" book that was attractive, I yearned for several others. So you can imagine how pleased I was to find a list in the paper this morning that give me a chance to reciprocate. It's from the (popular)technical pages of the Sunday Times. I can recommend Steven Johnson's "Emergence" & Robert Kunzig's "Mapping the Deep". I'd fancied the David Hockney book for Christmas but it's expensive.

http://www.SundayTimes.co.uk/article/0,,9015-2001584881,00.html

Thanks for the link viogert!

viogert: What a nice surpirse. Clicking on yourlink brought me to the London Times sign inpage, so now I am registered there! The process went awry before I got to the list, however I bookmarked the site, so will have lots of fun exploring it. Thank you very much. Is everyone reading The Anatomy of Desire? If so, might be a good one to discuss.

Mrs. Watson, I'm not reading Anatomy of Desire yet, in fact I still have to get it. I'll see if I can sneak it from an online place. I would love to discuss something like that.

Looked in Amazon for this - two titles the same with different authors & both hard to obtain. It would be an odd choice of book for me - I'm one of the old bats who was delighted to get a bed of her own & her body to herself again. But I generally read anything about pheramones & their public distribution because it involves the subliminal effect of animal scents on crowds. For instance - the quickest way to get men to bond & intimidate everybody else, is to salute with many straight upward movements of the arm like "Sieg Heil". It wafts the armpit pheramones into the surrounding air - a massively homoerotic display of machissmo. To distribute the scent of male experience & intention, goose-stepping pervades the streets with a sense of disciplined violence-in-the-making. (And also the sight of men looking pretty silly, but not very funny.)

Alternatively, the old guys who sat in the very front rows of the Folies Bergere were not there for the sight of frilly pantaloons, but for the exciting hormonal scent distributed by the high-kicking ladies.

I'm laughing at myself because I got that title wrong -you can tell I'm not all here with that cold I have.

Viogert: it is supposed to be The Botany of Desire...I think...OK I checked at B&N and that is what it is. Although I imagine that a book called Anatomy of Desire might be an interesting, if racy, read also.

I'm making a note to myself to see if they have it at a Canadian bookstore -the old exchange rate and all that- but I'll do a bit of figuring to see which way I'll get the best deal.

That's better for me Nellie - I prefer the sound of Botany. I'd bet the younger members might have liked the anatomy though. I AM sorry about your cold - nothing seems to go right until it's gone, so I hope it goes soon.

Nellie: Thanks. Botany sounds right. Sorry about your cold. So far this year I've escaped any viral infections! I'm in no rush, have Bligh and Tales of Genji to read next. I don't know how others do it, I can find only about 1 hour for reading and 1 hour for internet. Ginny seems to be reading about 15 books at once! You read many books at one time, also, don't you Nellie? How about you Viogert; do you read more than one at a time? I can read one plus my addiction reading, either SF or mystery as I fall asleep at night. That's about it. Even though I read very fast, my recall is very poor anymore.

Mrs.Watson, I do read more than one book at a time; sometimes as many as six but not as many as some.

If we were to do a discussion of The Botany of Desire, it would not be until much later this year. I've still got one more book of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy to do in February and then I'm in on the Great Books discussion, and I'm fairly tempted by A House For Mr. Biswas. But first thing I'm going to do is get it and read it. I need to know how interesting and good it is before proposing it for possible discussion.

Spotted another one of my science books way up high on the shelf: The Red Limit by Timothy Ferris.

Since you asked Mrs Watson - I hadn't thought about how many books I was reading at once, but it depends at Christmas on having the discipline to make a tempting thriller wait, while I finish something else. (Maybe we are alike there?). Occasionally I read several fast books & then tackle a non-fiction that I hope will fill gaps in my ignorance. But sliding from a riveting-read to a careful-read isn't easy at my age, so I wipe the brane a bit in between, reading poetry. At present, Anne Carson's atmospheric "The Beauty of the Husband" is brilliant for that.

viogert, that is interesting that you clear your brain by reading poetry. I watch a favourite TV show when I go from one type of book to another; I guess I'm clearing my brain in that way.

I've a friend who turns out cupboards to insert a parenthesis between one book & the next but she says it's guilt. She makes herself work to earn another read. In 1981 I thought I was being got-at by television so got rid of it. I've missed a lot of good films & lost a generation of folk-knowledge, but I missed pictures of 9/11 & probably cried less over Diana's funeral. In the book "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman, he wrote that the alpha waves that occur in the brain during hypnotism, also occur when watching television. If it's true, it's frightening. Family & friends think I'm just cranky, but it leaves me more time to read.

viogert, the only shows I tape and watch are Enterprise (the new Star Trek show), Andromeda, Dark Angel, X-Files and 24; and then only new episodes, never reruns. LOL I read scifi and I watch scifi!

What is a 'wodge'?

Found an old Scientific American book called Cosmology +1 and another on human nutrition. Once upon a time, very long ago I subscribed to Scientific American magazine and also Discover magazine; over the years most of the SA's disappeared but I still have most of the Discover ones. I also get National Geographic.

Do you read any science magazines.

For 33 years I subscribed to Scientific American (1960-1993) I can't say I read all the articles, the medical type ones did not interest me, but I was interested in Physics and Cosmology and such. When we retired and shifted house, there was insuficient room for storage, so I sent them all to the recycled paper firm. I always looked forward to receiving my monthly copy, though it was 3 months behind by the time it arrived.-- Trevor

It's a sort of padding I suppose - looked in the dictionary & it seems to be 'British informal'; "a bulky mass or chunk, a lump. Probably an alternative to wedge."

I thought afterwards you might have thought I was rude quoting Neil Postman so I will apologise for clumsiness. I wasn't as fastidious as you when I watched television - I'd get goggler's paralysis & watch hours of tripe, so there wasn't much room for reading. People like me shouldn't have a set.

I don't subscribe to any scientific magazines - except an independent monthly called "What Doctors Don't Tell You". I get "The New Statesman" which is literary & political, "Private Eye" which is political & satirical, "Mslexia" - women & writing quarterly - three Sunday broadsheets & The Guardian daily - & my American neighbour who lives above, lends me his New Yorker. It's the books pages of the newspapers where I find scientific books, & the environmental pages where there's a lot of science - well - science at my level.

3KINGS - there is quite a lot of NZ scientific research into the Antarctic isn't there? NZ owns quite a slice of the land. There is another Kiwi over in the Mystery books just joined called Cobr. Things in threes - someone sent me a picture card of the Farewell Spit on the South Island that was breathtaking. It's like Spurn Head at the mouth of the Humber in Yorkshire - only bigger - & with a long white cloud.

VIOGERT Land of the Long White Cloud. One of the Maori names for the South Island could be translated to mean that. Others claim it refers to the long twilight there in summer, compared to the North Island. Still another claim is that it refers to the snowy peaks of the Southern Alps, running almost the entire length of the island.

Yes, NZ and the US have combined to do a lot of drilling in Antarctica. They are particularly interested in both the ice cores, which hold evidence of climatic changes and changes in atmospheric gasses, and also under sea cores of silts and gravels stripped by glaciers from the land. In the latter there is sign of plant life, coal etc. that shows Antarctica once had ancient forests growing on land now buried far beneath the ice. This world has seen many changes hasn't it?-- Trevor

If you look in www.drudgereport.com today there's some info from Antarctica saying they are finding it's actually getting colder there. The ice-melt reports were from land closer to S.America, & they were heating up quicker there than anywhere else. People who have been to Antarctica are obsessed with the place. I have never been there but I can easily get obsessed from books - Sara Wheeler's "Terra Incognita" for a start.

The card I had of Farewell Spit - a huge sandy claw of land in a blue sea, you must have seen pictures of it yourself - really did have a very long white cloud running along almost the whole length of it.

I looked up Mary Leunig in Google & discovered she was Australian & the sister of Michael who is more famous. Doesn't seem to cartoon any more though.

This came early this morning - it looks absolutely brilliant. It's like we are getting closer to making phages than I thought.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/15jan_nano.htm?list135094

Thanks for the link to that interesting article, viogert!

Three interesting-looking books on books pages today:


Fingerprints:Murder & the Race to Uncover the Science of Identity by Colin Beavan 243pp Fourth Estate £14.99 ($?)


Time of Death: Forensic Science & the Search for Death's Stopwatch By Jessica Snyder Sachs 288pp Heinemann £14.99 ($?)


A Fly for the Prosecution: How Insect Evidence Helps Solve Crimes By M.Lee Goff 240pp Harvard £10.50 ($?)

Viogert, all three of those books sound very interesting.

Viogert: SPeaking as a mystery fan, I would love to read all three! I heard something on NPR about that fingerprint book--it seems that fingerprints are not the sure-fire identifiers we have been led to believe. Compared to DNA, fingerprints have a large margin of error.

I ordered The Botany of Desire today and expect it in my hands ready to read in a couple of days.

Mrs Watson You are right about DNA taking over, but I think the lab work (if the crime books are right), takes ages - like 3 weeks. Fingerprints (at least in USA as far as I know from crime books, again), are on computer & can be matched fairly quickly. We'd just hope any misdiagnosed perp was on live tv at the time of the murder & could prove the fingerprint machines wrong. I fancy the book with the maggots - a bit like Kathy Reichs & Scarpetta?

Nellie Vrolyk It looks a really good book - I went to Amazon to see what kind of jacket they'd given it, & it's brilliant - a decent price too.

I'm still patiently waiting for my copy of Botany of Desire to arrive at my door.

Here is another book that sounds like it could be interesting: The Future of Life by Edward O. Wilson.

NELLIE -- I had a look at "The Future of Life" & it looks fascinating - the reviews are good as well. Bit expensive for me - but it IS a h/b & new - maybe we could find a reviewers copy going cheaply if we wait a bit?

viogert, we just might find those reviewers copies if we wait; and I imagine that later on they might put out one of those trade paperbacks at a slightly lower price. The good books always tend to be pricey it seems.

I'm trying to remember...didn't Wilson write a book on ants?

Nellie I remember that one - it was EVER so expensive wasn't it? I can't remember if it came out in p/b, but it certainly had some great reviews. I remember coping with great aches of desire for the book though. Other people picked up where he left off describing the all-female, socialist communities they build where they govern from the bottom-up. Maybe I shouldn't see if I can't find a used copy at an affordable price.

I wonder what else interesting Wilson wrote? I'm going to have to look around and find out.

I just got notice that my copy of Botany of Desire has been shipped. So I should have it in a couple of days and then shall enjoy reading it.

The Botany of Desire arrived this afternoon. How's that for fast? And doesn't this bit from the dustcover flap sound fascinating?

"An Idaho farmer cultivates Russet Burbank potatoes so that a customer at McDonald's half a world away can enjoy a long, golden french fry. A gardener plants tulip bulbs in the fall and, come spring, has a riotous patch of color to admire. Two straightforward examples of how humans act on nature to get what we want. Or are they? What if those potatoes and tulips have evolved to satisfy certain human desires so that humans will help them multiply? What if, in other words, these plants are using us just as we use them?"

I can't wait to start reading!!

Nellie . It sounds like a jolly good read - I might send for it - especially as I often wondered why chestnuts are designed aesthetically to please the human eye. I always pick them up (& carry them far from the tree.) Is this what we are meant to do? Please tempt me more. . .

viogert, carrying the chestnut far from its parent tree and then dropping it on a piece of fertile soil is just what the tree would like you to do.

In Botany of Desire the author looks at four domesticated plants: the apple, the tulip, canabis, and the potato. And each plant is linked with a certain human desire: the apple with the desire for sweetness; the tulip with the desire for beauty; the potato with the desire for control; and I'm not sure of canabis but it must have something to do for a desire for intoxication -although I don't think that is the word the author used.

I'm just a bit into the first chapter but it is very interesting. He tells about John Chapman who was know as Johnny Appleseed and about his spreading the apple into the American frontier.

I'm still reading The Botany of Desire and find it to be one of the most interesting books I've read in a while. I like author Michael Pollan's conversational style of writing.

I think this could be a nice book to discuss. Your thoughts on this?

Nellie. Have you finished it yet? Did it hold up all the way through or peter out - because some of them do. Can you remember a couple of unmissable things we'd like?

I read a review today of "The History of Salt" (480pp!) by Mark Hulansky who wrote a book about cod. I was attracted until the critic said the author was so enthusiastic - he was all over the place in no order whatsoever. Why does it put me off? Is it going back & forth round nearly 500 pages. Oh bother - I am so crabby these days.

viogert, I'm not finished with Botany of Desire yet but don't have too many pages left to read. I can assure you that the author does not wander all over the place but keeps to the topic at hand in each of the chapters.

Shall tell more when I have more time to spare.

Found an interesting but somewhat old book on one of my bookshelves: Origins by Richard E Leaky and Roger Lewin. it says further on the cover "What New Discoveries Reveal About the Emergence of Our Species and its Possible Future"

I'm proposing a discussion of Botany of Desire:

Jane DeNeve "---Proposed Discussion:The Botany of Desire~ by Michael Pollan~TBA" 2/25/02 4:47pm

Just looked in on this discussion.

Don't know if it has been mentioned before:

Today, I bought a copy of Stephen Hawkings book "The Universe in a Nutshell."

Has anyone read it? Is it as good as Hawkings other books?

Tiger Tom

Hello Tiger Tom. I have the book you just mentioned on my wish list of books I want to read but I haven't gotten around to getting it yet.

Do let us know how you like the book. OK?

Nellie,

Will do. read Brief History of time and liked it. I have a book on cosmology written by Hawkings with a man named Penrose. Talk about hard. The math is such a bear that I am only in chapter one after quite a long time. Doubt if I will ever finish it much less understand it.

Tiger Tom

Galileo's Daughter by Dava Sobel is a very interesting book to read. While it is more biography and history, it does show us the beginnings of what we now call 'Science' and Galileo certainly deserves the appalation of Scientist in the modern sense of the word.

I was digging around in my books and found a old paperback which fits this topic:

The Red Limit by Timothy Ferris: the astounding story of three generations of astronomers and physicists who embarked on a modern odyssey of science -which led to the discovery of galaxies, black holes, quasars, the 'echo of creation'...and the edge of the universe.

From the Preface

"In the time it takes to read this sentence, the earth will travel 200 miles in its orbit around the sun, the sun 3,000 miles in the rotation of our galaxy, and 350,000 miles more space will open up between our galaxy and those of the Hydra cluster, as the universe goes on expanding."

An interesting start to an interesting book.

Anyone have a favourite science magazine?

Mine are Scientific American, and Discover Magazine. I also enjoy The National Geographic.

All,

I have finished "The Universe in a Nutshell."

As usual a well written effort by Dr. Hawkings.

He lost me a few times but then, this is just the first reading. Second time around I should do better.

I highly recommend this book.

BTW, I have a new discussion: "Why do we Read?" Please drop in and tell us why you read.

Tiger Tom

Thanks Tom. The book is on my list of books I want to get.

Two interesting titles:

Flesh and Machines
Cambrian Intelligence

Both are by Rodney Brooks.

You can learn more about the author and his books here:

Books of Rodney Brooks

Nellie,

Re book Origins by Leakey and Lewin.

I found a copy on my book selves. Cannot remember if I bought it with an Anthropology course or at a Library Sale. Have yet to even open it.

Sorry If I am late on this but just checked on some back posts and found yours on this book.

Tiger Tom

Tom, Origins is an interesting book -I've put it on my read again pile.

Two interesting biotech titles:

Lords of the Harvest: Biotech, Big Money, and the Future of Food by Daniel Charles.

Our Posthuman Future: Consequences of the Biotechnology Revolution by Francis Fukuyama.

Nellie,

YOU DO read some interesting books!!

Not down my alley, however.

Tiger Tom

I haven't forgotten this poor old discussion -it is just that the outdoors and a growing flower garden get most of my attention.

Looking around on my bookshelves I spotted another of my old books: The Dancing Wu Li Masters: An Overview of the New Physics by Gary Zukav

If you enjoy fiction and classic fiction at that, check out the Book Club Online's offering for July:

The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck

Have you seen the great news?

Our Seniornet Bookclubs are a Participating Organization in the National Book Festival in Washington DC in 2002, put on by the Library of Congress and Laura Bush!

Participating Organizations

Scroll down to see the list.

And now an excellent and most fascinating book: Visual Intelligence: how we create what we see by Donald D. Hoffman

From the bookcover/publisher:

...yet there is another fundamental dimension of intelligence that shapes our experience, engages roughly half of the brain's cortex, and largely goes unnoticed: our visual intelligence. Far from being a passive recorder of a pre-existing world, the eye actively constructs every aspect of our visual experience-from the strut of a peacock to the nuances of light in a forest at dusk.

In an informal style replete with illustrations, cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman presents the compelling scientific evidence for vision's constructive powers, and in so doing he unveils a grammar of vision-a set of rules that govern our perception of line, color, form, depth, and motion.

This is a book that is on my 'I want to read this' book list:

Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid Douglas R. Hofstadter.

Have you found any interesting Science and Tech books that you would like to read?