---Science Fiction Clearinghouse Export

Welcome Science-Fiction Fans!
Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, Robert Silverberg, Arthur C. Clarke, Clifford D. Simak: are the authors from the Golden Age of Science Fiction your favorites? Or do authors like Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, David Brin, Sheri S. Tepper, Connie Willis, and Tad Williams catch your interest? Which book began your journey into the fascinating worlds of Science Fiction and Fantasy?

We welcome any and all comments about the wonderful world of Science Fiction.

Science Fiction Links

SF Site: authors | Fantastic Fiction: 10,000 bibliographies
The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey | Bibliography of Anne McCaffrey
Discussion Leader: Pat H

Click LAST above the first message below to see the recent messages. "Backtrack" by clicking PREVIOUS.

B&N Bookstore | Books Main Page | Book Discussion Guidelines | Suggest a Book for Discussion
We sometimes excerpt quotes from discussions to display on pages on SeniorNet's site or in print documents.
If you do NOT wish your words quoted, please contact Books.

I welcome everyone who loves Science Fiction; and everyone who loves Fantasy to our new home!

I thought I would begin with listing the Hugo winning novels for the 2000's, beginning with the most recent:

The Hugo Winners: novels

2002: American Gods by Neil Gaiman
2001: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
2000: A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge

I must confess that so far I have only read one of the books: the 2000 winner, which is very good.

Have you read any or all?

This year's winner of the World Fantasy Award is: The Other Wind by Ursula K. Le Guin

Have any Fantasy fans had a chance to read it?

More Hugo Winning Novels from the 1990's:

1990: Hyperion by Dan Simmons
1991: The Vor Game by Lois McMaster Bujold
1992: Barrayar by Lois McMaster Bujold
1993: A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge
1993: The Doomsday Book by Connie Willis
1994: Green Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson
1995: Mirror Dance by Lois McMaster Bujold
1996: The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
1997: Blue Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson
1998: Forever Peace by Joe Haldeman
1999: To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie willis.

How many of these have you read?

Nellie, does Kim Stanley Robinson's book "The Years of Rice and Salt" qualify as science fiction? It is a VERY well written book- I love his style. Have never read any of his others so can't compare. I thought this one was a staight novel of history as it MIGHT have been (that is, I didn't realize it was fantasy) until page 70. BIG shock!!! Things got wild from there on.

Hello highcedar, yes, the Years of Rice and Salt certainly counts as science fiction. It sounds like an alternate history SF type of story, and those can be very good.

Hugo Winning Novels from the 1980's

1980: The Fountains of Paradise by Arthur C. Clarke
1981: The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge
1982: Downbelow Station by C.J. Cherryh
1983: Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov
1984: Startide Rising by David Brin
1985: Neuromancer by william Gibson
1986: Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
1987: Speaker For the Dead by Orson Scott Card
1988: The Uplift War by David Brin
1989: Cyteen by C.J. Cherryh.

The only one of these I have not read is The Uplift War.

Has anyone read Under The Skin, by Michel Faber?

What a shocking theme! An alien species has established a technique of collecting and fattening human males to be processed as a food source. The collecting is done by a female alien surgically altered to look human and who drives around the Scotland countryside picking up male hitchhikers!

After she sedates the victims, they are taken to the processing plant which is secreted underground on an isolated farm.

Faber's writing style is an easy read. You probably won't want to put it down!

Peggy, I haven't read Under the Skin, but it sounds good. When I get it, I will tell how I like it.

I just finished an old fantasy book, but I loved it.. Mary Brown "The Unlikely Ones" I had read one of her books years ago and just recently ran on two of them at a used book store. This one was quite special. If you like quests, you will love this one. It isnt often that one of the heroes is a toad and another a carp.. Grat fun and a nice underlaying message.

Stephanie, it is fun to find old books that you read long ago; and to find that they are just as good as they were back then.

The Unlikely Ones sounds good.

Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas to all!

Was given two books I wanted for Christmas: Defender by C.J. Cherryh. and The Dragon Reborn by Robert Jordan. I'm slowly collecting the Wheel of Time series and once I have them all, I will begin reading.

I am beginning to read Terry Pratchett, but have only completed one.. Witches Abroad.. which is fairly new. I need to go on an internet hunt, since used book stores, never seem to have him in stock.. He has been writing a long time and I wanted the early ones to fill in the Disc world he writes about.

Happy New Year Nellie and all my sci-fi reading buddies. Sorry I haven't been around for a while but a lot has been happening in my life. However I found a book for all of you who are snow bound. "The Way of The Witch" by Jan Siegal. This will take you from Atlantis and decendants from there who have a gift for magic,to the streets of London and the moors of Yorkshire. This book contains a trilogy so you have dragons, witches, black magic and imortals. The heroine's name is Fern and you will find yourself rivited to her story and wondering what is going to happen next. Steph try http://www.sfbc.com they have many of Terry's Dis world books. When I can't find the scifi book I want anywhere else I try there. Plus you will find many of the new authors. Next reading Project for me is "The Mammoth Book 0f Comic Fantasy" a collection of short stories by many of our favorites. God Bless you all and God bless the American Vets.

LadyMerry, how very nice to see you again! The Way of the Witch certainly sounds interesting and is going on my 'books I want to read' list.

I have one that I just finished which you would enjoy: Once Upon a Winter's Night by Dennis L. McKiernan. It is a very good retelling of one of the fairy tales from the Andrew Lang books, East of the Sun and West of the Moon, which in part is a retelling of the Cupid and Psyche myth. I was much taken with the hero - or can one still use 'heroine'?- Camille.

I've got all the books in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series gathered together and now I will see if it is as good as I've been told.

Working on Practchetts "Reaper". Not as much fun as the Witches Abroad or the very first Disc world book which I read a few weeks ago. Is not going anywhere at this point. Possibly it will clear itself up.. I noticed that Practchett copywrites to himself and his wife.. Not on the cover, but on the copywrite page.. Interesting.

Stephanie, Pratchett copyrighting his books for both him and his wife, do you think that means she helps him with the writing in some way? Or maybe he is making sure she will retain the copyright in case he dies?

I think I'll have to tackle some Pratchett books after I finish with Robert Jordan...

I'm a Pratchett fan, too. Try "Pyramids"; it was a lot of fun. The Jan Siegal book sounds good. I'll have to look for that name.

I have recently read a series of four books by an author named Mark Anthony; fifth and last due out this Spring. If he can hold my interest (and my daughter's) through four books, you know he must be good. ...Babi

Hello BaBi! You have just given me another author to add to my list of authors I want to check out and read - I marked down his name, so I won't forget it by the time I get around to a bookstore or library.

Science Fiction and Fantasy writers sure do like to write series of books on the same story, don't they? I wonder who has the record so far for the most installments/books that tell one single story?

I won't make a guess on that, NELLIE. Still..I don't suppose you could call her books a series, or the 'same story', but Ann McCaffery has certinly written a lot of books featuring the same locale and groups of people. I am referring to her 'Pern' books, of course, which I have loved from the first.

I can't think of any 'series' that has gone beyond five books, but of course that doesn't mean there aren't some out there. I volunteer at the local library one morning a week, and I am constantly coming across prolific authors I know nothing about. I am beginning to wish heartily that I could read even faster, sit in one place longer, and read as long as I would like without tiring my eyes! ..Babi

BaBi, there are quite a few of the Pern books, which I think form a single story, but I haven't counted them all. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is up to 8 books so far. But I know there was another Fantasy author who had a long series going...but can't come up with his name.

Piers Anthony has as many as 27 on the same Xanth place and Marion Zimmer Bradley 19 with her DarkOver serie. I have 14 from the Pern story. Bubble

Thanks Sea_Bubble, Piers Anthony is one of the authors I was trying to come up with. With that many books in the Xanth series, he may have everyone beat hands down. I have many of his Xanth books, but not all of them.

I think I have almost all of the Pern books; but only have a few of the Darkover series.

If a book stands alone and the story is finished at the end, I don't consider it part of a 'series', even tho' it may take place in the same fictional locale of other books by the author. Some of Piers Anthony's books were part of a series, and others were not. I'm not sure if I've read the "Wheel of Time" series, NELLIE. Do you remember any of the titles? I'm sure I haven't read any series of 8 books. My daughter collects the Pern books; I don't know how many she has, but she thinks she has all of them to date. I'll have to ask her to make a quick count for me. ...Babi

I have all of the Pern and her other series as well. Anne McCaffrey is simply my kind of writer. Freedom is a wonderful planet as well. I have all of Marion Zimmer Bradley in the Darkover series, but did not like her other stuff at all. I like the Non Zanth books by Anthony. There was a small series.. Maybe 3.. that was something on the order of "Virtual Mode" Excellent and quite different. I am just now embarking on the Terry Pratchett series. Funny at times, full of puns ( not a pun person). The four or five books of the Lensman series years ago was wonderful. Anyone else besides me remember them? Also C.S. Lewis.."That Hideous Strength, Perelandra, etal.. Oldies and goodies.

BaBi, here are all the titles in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series -and it is a true series:

Book One: The Eye of the World
Book Two: The Great Hunt
Book Three: The Dragon Reborn
Book Four: The Shadow Rising
Book Five: The Fires of Heaven
Book Six: Lord of Chaos
Book Seven: A Crown of Swords
Book Eight: The Path of Daggers
Book Nine: Winter's Heart.

And each of those books is some 700 plus pages long. Can you imagine how much Jordan has written just on this one story? And I don't think it is finished yet.

Stephanie, I have all of E.E. (Doc) Smith's Lensman series; as well as his Skylark series, and am tempted to read both again. Those books are some great Space Opera!

Ah, yes, NELLIE. I remember reading The Eye of The World and I think two or three more, then couldn't find the next book. They were good. I'll have to try and find them again.

STEPHANIE, I am rather fond of puns, actually. (Since you are not, I'll spare you one of my favorites.) I also have the C.S. Lewis books you mentioned. Did you also like the Narnia series. While they are basically children's books, they also have a deeper underlying story that is sometimes missed. ...Babi

On the longest series in science fiction or fantasy: I asked some other science fiction fans that I know and they came up with E.C. Tubb's Dumarest series, which is up to 32 books and still going. And there is also Piers Anthony's Xanth series, which has 27 books in it so far - although they did not consider this a true series since each book is a stand-alone.

I don't know E. C. Tubbs. Would you really want to get into a 'series' that's still not finished after 32 books??!!! ..Babi

I remember seeing E.C. Tubbs , but I dont believe I ever read one. Incidentaly tried the scifi web page that was given me here, but it is just the science fiction book club.. I need an older source for most of the Prachett and the Mary Brown's that I am looking for.

My library has quite a few Pratchetts, but of course that is no help if you want the books for keepers.

I saw a series of three books in the library..not new...by an author I didn't know. Hunt was the name, but I'm not sure I remember the first name correctly. I want to say Katherine, but that may be wrong. When I get caught up on my reading, I intend to check out all three. Let you know what I find. ..Babi

Hi all! I'm finally making time to pop in here and make a post.

Babi, Katherine Hunt does sound like a name that is familiar to me. What did you find out about books of hers?

I am on the fourth book of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series. It is better than I expected it to be for I have read as many opinions for the series as I have read opinions against the series.

I have a hard time 'liking' his characters. I keep reading because I want to know what happens to them, but I don't cheer them on like I often do when I read a book.

I don't think there is any other writer who has had as many different story lines happening in the same story as Jordan. Sometimes I think his story lines are multiplying exponentially as I read because new ones keep appearing as I go along.

On his style of writing: I am often reminded of Stephen Donaldson - who wrote the Thomas, the Unbeliever stories and the Gap series - as I read these books, for the writing styles seem quite similar.

Has anyone else read the books of The Wheel of Time series? What did you think of them?

I was looking at a listing of the Wheel of Time series, trying to remember where I left off reading them. I'll probably have to go pick some up and browse thru' them a bit until I find something I don't remember having read. Kinda hit-and-miss, but what can I say. I've read so many books in my lifetime, I can only remember a small fraction of them. Haven't we all. ...Babi

I've read most of the Jordan books but find I get bogged down in the multiple story lines. I also find myself not being able to identify with the main characters except I want to see each one get their "comeuppance" because of their arrogance or blindness to events around them. I think I have quit reading them until the last one comes out and then I'll read the whole series. Now if David Eddings would just write a new series like the Mallorean and Belgariad books I would be a very happy camper.

Babi, I only remember the latest books I have read. But that is a nice thing isn't it? Because it means I can read my older books again and they will be just like new.

Brian, I thought of waiting until the Wheel of Time series is complete, but the way things look that may be never; so I just started reading. I figure by the time I finish book nine, book ten will be out in paperback.

I note that I feel the same way about the characters as I do. For instance, I find that Rand is not much of a hero; but neither is he much of an anti-hero - he is to me one of the most unlikable characters in the series; and as the main or pivotal character he should elicit the most sympathy/empathy from the reader.

What do you all think about that?

Now you have given me another author for my 'to read one day' list -David Eddings.

Working on Pratchetts "Weird Sister" Granny is my type of girl.

Pratchett is a favorite of mine. I just put his "Guards! Guards!" on the offering list in Book Exchange, if anyone would like to have it. ...Babi

Hi Stephanie! Hi BaBi!

I'm still working on Jordan's series.

I got a book by Orson Scott Card called How To Write Science Fiction because I'm interested in writing it as well as reading it. I think this is a good book for any science fiction fan to have, even if you don't ever plan on writing, because it tells a lot about the nature of science fiction and how it works.

I also picked up two new books yesterday: Fool's Errand by Robin Hobb, and The Pillars of the World by Anne Bishop -the latter is an author I had not read anything by as yet. I read the first chapter of the book and she has a nice style of writing.

More new books to report. I picked up my first Pratchett. There was lots of choice but The Thief of Time is what ended up catching my interest.

Also bought Hominids by Robert J. Sawyer.

And Collapsium by Wil McCarthy.

Pratchett has become a favorite of mine, Nellie. Hope you enjoy him as much as I do. ...Babi

Nellie. I have been reading Pratchett as well. Thus far, I adore the witches and death ( I know death should not be funny, but he is)

If any of you are fans of Orson Scott Card, I have one of his books, "The Songmaster", available on the Book Exchange. ..Babi

Hi BaBi, Stephanie, and all!

I started reading Pratchet's The Thief of Time last night and laughed out loud in many places -what great humour.

I am a Orson Scott Card fan and I already have Songmaster. It is one of my favourite books of all time.

I'm now on book five of Jordan's Wheel of Time series: The Fires of Heaven. What I'm finding about his books is that they are fairly enjoyable to read, but once read, the books are easily forgotten. There are too many characters and there is too much going on and too much switching from one thing to the other and from one person to the other to get me truly caught up in the story and feel some excitement while I read.

Nellie.. I know the feeling about Jordan. I am reading or trying to read the last Marion Zimmer Bradley ( it was co written). I loved her Darkover books and have read every single one, but this one just turns me off. I have tried for months and never get past about 50 pages. Darndest thing. No idea what the difference is.

Sorry for not stopping by for a while. Stephanie, I had the same problem as you when I was reading Stephen Donaldson's Gap series: I had bought the whole series like I always do when the whole is available -and I had read both of his Thomas Covenant series which I enjoyed - but I couldn't get past the second book of the Gap series and even the first two were hard going.

It was not that the books were badly written. It was more that he took the concept that the characters in a story must suffer in some way, too far. His characters in those books suffered too much; both physically and mentally. And the suffering never let up. After two books I had had enough.

Finished The Thief of Time and am going to get more of the Disc World books by Pratchett.

I am also having a good time writing my own science fiction story. You can read the first chapters in the WREX magazine -link follows.

WREX Magazine

Scroll down until you see Thistledown and that's my story.

I'm reading book six of the Wheel of Time series: The Lord of Chaos by Robert Jordan.

And I'm also reading Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card.

Both are pretty good books so far.

I found a new "Dune" series by Herbert that I'm going to take a look at. I didn't much like the follow-up books to the original "Dune", which seemed to get poorer with each book. This new series starts with "House Atreides", and continues with "House Corino" and "House Harkonnen". I picked up "House Atreides", and am hoping for the best. Let you know mho. ...Babi

BaBi, I'm in the process of reading the new Dune series also and so far I find it to be quite good. The books in the series are prequels to the original Dune series, if I have it figured out right.

Preqyels?? Might try them. I loved Dune, but the continuing books got further and further away from the original premise..

I am enjoying the first of the new series, "House Atreides", very much. It's much more like the original than some of the sequels. ..Babi

Hi Nellie and all my fellow fans. I really wish I had time to drop in more often I miss some of the best discussions. Anthony is a favorite of mine. I have read all the Xanth and Adept books of his and keep looking for more. If you want to read a good set of books try "The Death Gate Cycle" by Margerate Weis and Tracy Hickman. There are 9 in that series and the first 8 can stand alone but the last one pulls them all together. I am also a fan of Pern and the Dragon Riders. Make sure you read "Rescue Run" it is much shorter than the rest of the books about Pern. In this one a rescue team come to Pern and find the deserted south holds and think that everyone on Pern has parished. I won't tell the rest of the plot I don't want to ruin it for anyone. Death is also a favorite of mine from the Prachett Books. Prachett is a really gifted and humerous writer. I try to suggest new and different authors for you to try, so my last read, was a set of three novels by Eva Ibbotson "Which Witch". The story is about a young handsome wizard who decides to get married and all the "lucky" kooky witches who are canidates. (Better have some Depends handy.) "The Secret of Platform 13" The prince of Fantasy land is kidnapped by a rather rich and portly woman who wants to pass him off as her son and her old nanny who brings a strange child to her home. A really far out cast of wacky characters set out to rescue the prince. Last but not the least of the stories was "Island of The Aunts" Three rather strange sisters live on an island and help to heal injured creatures. They feel they are getting old so they decide to kidnap three children who won't be missed to replace themselves. (Just be prepared to laugh untill you cry.) I am now re-reading Hitch-Hikers guide to the Universe with quick trips on the side for the Mammoth Book of Comic Fantasy. Enjoy. If I don't catch up with everyone before then Have a Happy Easter and don't forget to say a special prayer for the president, our military and our vets. Love and God Bless LadyMerry (PA)

Hello LadyMerry! It is always a delight to see you visiting

And you always leave a nice list of books for me to look out for.

I have one for you: The Pillars of the World by Ann Bishop -excellent fantasy about a young witch named Ari and her importance to the continued existence of the hidden world of the Fae. Well written. I'm going to be looking out for more books by this author.

BaBi, the new Dune series is very good, I've found. I'm hoping that the latest instalment The Butlerian Jihad will be out in paperback soon.

Since I'm working on my own book, I haven't been reading as much as usual. LOL I guess I can do one or the other but not both.

For Nellie: Survival Tips for Black Hole Travelers

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/space/20030404/sc_space/voyage_into_the_vortex__survival_tips_for_black_hole_travelers&e=5

Bubble

Thanks Bubble, that is really interesting.

Finished the Marion Zimmer Bradley. It was about the Fall of Neskaya..I must say this one was written by the woman who has taken over the Darkover series. I did not like much of it.. Too many battles and not enough decent plot.. I was disappointed in it.

Hello Stephanie, I think it tends to spoil a series when another writer takes it over. Hopefully there will not be any more books added to the Darkover series. I don't think it is fair to the memory of the author. Do you?

I had to go out and mail a letter and ended up in the bookstore where I got Terry Goodkind's Wizard's First Rule, George R.R. Martin's A Storm of Swords, and a not read before author: Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Chosen.

I found out that Kushiel's Chosen is the second book in a trilogy, so I have to find the first book to read.

One of my brothers gave me a new fantasy to read The Runelords by David Farland. He liked it. I am only a chapter into it but some things in it remind me too much of a Dungeons and Dragons game and that distracts from the story.

Back from our rv adventure. It seems as if Darkover will continue. I think the author made a deal with the heirs.. Something like VC Andrews, who died years ago, but the books keep rolling out.

Hello Stephanie! I hope you had a great time on your RV adventure.

I'm hoping the new author of the Darkover series of books will develop her/his own style and not try to copy Marion Zimmer Bradley's style. To me a copied style always seems forced and unnatural.

I've reached book 9 of Jordan's Wheel of Time series. Not overly bad reading, but I don't think I have known any writer who uses as much repetition as he does. I think he breaks almost every writing rule, which novice writers are told to beware of, and is successful as an author in spite of doing so.

The Science Fiction and Fantasy Book List Site

Includes a list of works for each author, as well as links to official and fan Web sites. Browsable by author, with cross references to pseudonyms.

http://sfbooklist.users.btopenworld.com/

Hi Bubble, thank you for the link to that interesting site.

I'm reading a very different fantasy at the moment: Kushiel's Dart by Jacquiline Carey. Beautifully written and quite erotic. Not for everyone I would think.

Nellie, I have always much prefered real SF to fantasy which I read only when I cannot discover new SF. I wish I was in US to get all the variety! Taxes are too high here and second hand shops don't always offer what one looks for.

But I will see if I can find J. Carey there. Is it a newly published one? Bubble

Bubble, Kushiel's Dart was first published in 2001 so it is a very recent book.

Hi Nellie, just wanted you to know I am looking for the book you suggested. Bubble leave your name and address and I will send you some books that I have finished. I live in an apartment so don't have a lot of storage space. Always willing to help out a fellow reader. God Bless and hope to get back soon. Merry

I looked for it Nellie but douldn't find it yet and they don't have it at the American school library either. Nothing from that author yet. But I kept the details for later.

Merry, thanks so much for your kind offer. Did you click on my name to see my location? I am send you an e-mail.
Bubble

Hello LadyMerry! It is always so nice to see you. Have you read any good fantasies lately. I recently read all nine of the Wheel of Time books by Jordan. There is a tenth book but it is not yet in paperback and I have more room for paperbacks than hardcovers. Plus paperbacks are more comfortable in the hand.

I hope you find Kushiel's Dart. I have been getting so caught up in the story that at times I have tears in my eyes. I think Carey has created a most wonderful character in Phedre No Delauny -there are supposed to be accent marks over the first 'e' in Phedre and over the 'o' in No -but I don't know how to make them.

Jordan's The Wheel of Time. I like the story and the vast scope of it. Sometimes I like his characters and sometimes I don't -they all seem a little much the same to me. But he repeats the same descriptions over and over, both within a book and from one book to the other. LOL I have this picture in my mind of him saving all these different descriptive passages by category and number in his computer and then plugging them in as needed.

Hello Bubble!

I went out today on an errand and when I had to wait a longish time for a bus going in the direction of home, I popped into a nearby bookstore. Now going into a bookstore is a dangerous thing for me to do because I always end up coming out with books in hand. Today was no different. I got the following:

Shadows and Light by Anne Bishop
The Invisible Ring by Anne Bishop
The Visitor by Sheri S. Tepper
The One Kingdom by Sean Russell

Oh, I liked Tepper's!

LadyMerry, did the mail reach you?

I have been immersed in "The shelters of Stone" by J. Auel. Not exactly SF but I found it fascinating none the less. Wonderful descriptions too, although there are a few long repetitive passages.

I know exactly what you mean Nellie about bookshops and I am avoiding them at the moment: too many birthdays and celebrations in the family in June! Bubble

I just scanned the postings and was surprised that three of my favorites are not listed.

Heinlein's Time Enough for Love is still my all time favorite. Lazarus Long (who is several hundred years old) is the ultimate hero. I don't recall ever reading a Heinlein that wasn't tops.

Lois McMasters Bujold's Barrayar series is another great. The first two books deal with the parents, but the rest of the series is about the son who was damaged when his pregnant mother was poisoned. Miles overcomes his physical problems with daring and ingenuity and you can't keep from loving him. The most recent book is about what happens on his honeymoon - his bride is no violet, either.

Finally David Webber's series about Honor Harrington.

Will have to try Bujold..Sounds like an interesting series.

Dulsey, do you know any other SF books with disabled heroes as main characters? McAffrey's brain ship serie of course, but that is different... Bubble

Broad Universe "Broad Universe is a group of women and men dedicated to celebrating and promoting the work of women writers of science fiction, fantasy and horror." "Broadsheet," the sites centerpiece, features discussions in six areas: Think, Create, Sell, Read, Teach, and Gossip. Also included are archives, a catalog of works by Broad Universe members, a FAQ, an events calendar, membership info, statistics, links, and a list of ways to become involved with the group. http://broaduniverse.org/

Don't know if this qualifies, but Bujold also wrote a book (Quaddies, I think) about a race that was engineered to live in weightlessness. They have arms where their legs should be, hence Quaddies. The prevailing prejudice in this universe is against "mutants". Miles lives in this same universe and interacts with Quaddies from time to time.

Hello Dulsey!

I've got an old, well read copy of Heinlein's Time Enough for Love, and to think I never once mentioned it here. I think I have most of Heinlein's works.

I've not read much by Bujold, so shall have to give her Barrayar series a try so to speak.

Bubble, thanks for another nice link.

I have read all of Heinlin, but not for years. I liked Old Lazarus..but am not sure I still would.

It's odd, how people react to different writers. I have a friend who raved about Heinlein, but I never liked him. His whole attitude seemed to rub me the wrong way. What little I read of him I found unpleasant and irritating. I tried to explain that to her (my friend) but only made her angry. {From time to time I had to reserve my right to disagree without explaining my reasons to her satisfaction.}(*~*)..Babi

Reader Alert!! FYI: A new SeniorNet Poll:

Like to read and discuss books?
Here's a Poll just for you!
Click here for Poll

I think we all do that Babi.. We have dear dear friends who are truly conservative and we are not. We try hard to maintain a distanced relationship, but the male is intent that all agree with him and makes it hard on us occasionally. I keep begging him to not forward us very conservative email stuff since we just are not interested. Science Fiction.. Heinlen, who I liked at the time, when I reread has a bit more macho than I care for now.. But some of the stories are great fun. Its like Dune.. I loved the first book, but from then on they went rapidly downhill with the series.. Wish they had stuck to one book

Thanks Dulsey about the Quaddies. I also remember someone wrote about a Russian amputated of both legs who did great in weightlessness, with trays of food... I don't think the idea has been written about much.

I too enjoy Heinlein less than I used to do. But I did reread with some pleasure Stranger in a Strange land. Bubble

Couldn't agree more, Stephanie. DUNE was, to me, one of the all-time greats. He should have stopped there, but I suppose the temptation is too great to try and carry on such a great success. ...Babi

I honestly thought that the first Dune was written because he cared so much about the environment and what we are doing with it.. After some of the Dune books, however it is just the same old tired.."Money",Oh well. the beginning was wonderful and there are sci-fi authors who just keep going. I love Anne McCaffrey although am not too fond of the Damia series.

Hi all- Home from vacation in Florida - back to the grindstone now. One more trip this summer - Prince Edward Isles - what a contrast with south FL.

Someone mentioned The Ship Who Sang, et al - how about The Crystal Singer - I think this was two books, maybe three. Anne McCaffrey, I think.

I too, loved the first Dune and thought the rest were worthless.

Hello all!

I agree with you all that Dune was the best and the rest of the books so-so. But in SciFi it seems almost to be a requirement that a writer do more than one book set on the same world.

Dulsey, yes it was McCaffrey who wrote the Crystal Singer series.

Pern is still McCaffrey's best. I seem to remember that she wanted to start a new serie with sentient dolphins similar to the dragons. Did she ever started that? I think I saw that in an interview about 3 or 4 years ago. Bubble

The Dolphins are worked into the Pern series and it is a delightful novel.. I love The Crystal Singer series.. Also the Freedom one.. All of the Sentient Ships....and there was another small series.. about a planet that was sentient.. Very funny indeed. Some of this is written with other authors, but there is always a McCaffrey slant. Another favorite of mine was Marion Zimmer Bradley, although they are continuing the saga even though she died and that is not so good.

Nellie, I thought you would be interested by this.
Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, Inc. (SFWA)

http://www.sfwa.org/

Bubble, that is an interesting site. Thank you for putting up the link.

I'm rereading George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones and actually find it to be better the second time around. I think that I read so fast the first time that I miss a lot of things. After I finish with this one I'll read the next in the series A Clash of Kings. Then I'll be up to speed for A Storm of Swords, which I just bought.

I never read that? I wonder why but lately it is difficult to find SF in shops here. People apparently are less interested and buy more mysteries or just novels.

Just a guess Sea Bubble, but for a while we had the same problem at the library here. It was explained to me that people got annoyed because it was so hard to get all of the books in a series, esp. in the correct order, and nearly all the SF/Fantasy books nowadays seem to be in series. The library was about to stop buying series SF/Fantasy books, but people really got upset about that! I don't know if the shops had the same problem. ...Babi

This could well be it, but the section of SF gets smaller and smaller and there is almost no choice now except for the old classics like Asimov or Silverstein (sp?). Even the library does not buy them anymore, they say that there is no demand for it, in this town anyway.

Bubble, BaBi, the book stores here also have shrinking science fiction and fantasy sections, and even the library does carry much of the new stuff.

I buy most of my books online because I find that the choice is there.

I spend time at an SF&Fantasy writer's site and someone there said they won't even consider publishing you as a first time author unless you have a series going because readers of the genre expect a series.

I'm off to get some pizza from our favourite pizza restaurant...

GOOD HEAVENS!! They can't stop publishing and selling SF/Fantasy!! I'll pine away! After all, one can't spend all one's time reading classics, novels, mysteries, 'think' books, biography... Well, I can't, anyway. ...Babi

BaBi, I'd sure pine away too. But they won't stop publishing SF and Fantasy, there's too many fans of it for that. And there are all those long series like the Wheel of Time, which people who buy the latest book in the series, want all the other books of too. So they have to keep printing more of those.

They do a lot of sci-fi and fantasy, but by recognized authors.. and always series.. A shame in a way. There are subjects in fantasy, but one is quite enough.

Nellie, Marcie suggested you look for 'older' sci-fi books to read/discuss. I have one that is worth at least a few discussion questions, The Big Eye by Max Ehrlich, 1949.
Libraries, maybe Amazon, but never printed in paper-back.

Hello all! I just got back from holidays.

Dave, I had not heard of The Big Eye before this. Can you give me some idea of what the book is about? I'll see if it is in the library -although I can't recall seeing it on any previous visits. But I don't see things that I'm not looking for unless they jump out at me in some way.

I'm reading the third book in George R.R.Martin's A song of Ice and Fire series consisting of the following titles:

A Game of Thrones
A Clash of Kings
A Storm of Swords -which I'm in the process of reading.

Nellie, 'The Big Eye' tells about an astronomer who calculates that a huge asteroid is heading towards Earth, has numbers to show it will collide, and what amounts to panic-in-the-streets.
The 'intrinsic value' of such a story is how would otherwise sane people react to this type of event. Today it would be related to KNOWING an atomic attack on NY City was 'guaranteed', only to find at the last minute that it wouldn't happen.
Mysteries and text-books have been my reading material for years, so I'm not really into reading 'just anything' recommended. Anything else I might suggest has already been considered by your group. Kellerman, (both of them), Patterson, Diehl, and the classics fill in the gaps when I'm not involved in Math, Psychology, History, or lately, Harry Potter! (Light reading, most of it.)

Dave, I like those 'disaster scenario' type stories a lot. Have you ever read The HAB Theory by Allan W. Eckert? It is a very good example of that type of story. HAB is Herbert Allen Boardman, a scientist who believes that every so often the Earth literally flips over and that it will soon happen again. My copy is from 1976 and I don't know if it would still be in print. A library would be the best place to look for it, I would guess.

I'm reading Hyperion by Dan Simmons again. This book is at the top of my 'books I love best' list.

VOTE for the next BOOK CLUB ONLINE selection! We want to hear from YOU! Come on over to the BOOKS COMMUNITY CENTER this week and nominate titles you might like to discuss with us. NEXT WEEK, we'll VOTE and discuss the winner in November. Get in on the fun!

Have you read some good new science fiction or fantasy lately?

I'm rereading some of my favourites right now as I have mentioned. I do have my eye on some new fantasies and SF that I'll probably get soon.

I recently read "The Prince of Time" by McDermott. (forget first name, but a woman.) Very enjoyable. It reads as though there were earlier books, but the jacket says nothing about it being part of a series. I liked the characters. ...Babi

Hi Nellie and all my friends in SF land. I have found a new author for you to check out, Steven Gould. I read his book "WildSide" when I was on vacation and couldn't put it down. I also just finished the new Harry Potter book. I hope to find more by Gould. I am thinking of re-reading "Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever" As well as checking out the new DVD of Lord of the ring. The movies seem to be sticking very closely to the books. Have a good Day and God bless American , the American Troops and Vets.

CORRECTION The author of "The Prince of Time" was Glenna McReynolds, not McDermott. Sorry about that. My daughter found "Dreamstone", which came before 'The Prince...", and I'm looking forward to reading that one, too. ...Babi

BaBi, I think there is another author I will be checking out. Good thing you gave me the right name. I like books with good characters.

LadyMerry, I'll check out Steven Gould. I have heard the name but can't recall reading anything written by him.

I'm reading The One Kingdom by Sean Russell -the first volume in The Swan's War.

I'm also reading Rhapsody by Elizabeth Haydon -it's sort of difficult to know exactly what is going on...

Thank you both for posting.

I went out to the book store this morning to get a book on garden ponds, but couldn't resist looking at the science fiction and the fantasy as well.

Got Daughter of the Blood by Anne Bishop -the first book in the Black Jewels Trilogy from the fantasy section

Got Dune: The Butlerian Jihad by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson from the science fiction section.

A good fantasy: Swordpoint by Ellen Kushner

If you read any of my suggestions let me know how you like them. OK?

Hi! Do we have any Laurell K. Hamilton fans here? How about Anne Rice? Know any really good vampire books? Vampire books are the ultimate escape don't you think? Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

To me, vampires are beginning to rank up there with King Arthur and Jack the Ripper for being overworked. The last vampire movie that turned up on TV I watched for a few minutes and got very quickly fed up with the whole thing. Yeckk! Sorry, Anne. Don't let me spoil your fun. ...Babi

Fred Saberhagen has a good series on vampires, the first one takes place in the Chicago area,and this vampire is a good guy. Chelsa Quinn Yarbo also has a great series, the first book takes place in France before the revolution. P.E. Elrod, hope I spelled that right has a series that is sort of a private eye tpye vampire.

See what I mean? Everybody is getting on the vampire bandwagon! ..Babi

Hi jaysedai6! Are you a Fred Saberhagen fan too? I just finished re-reading "After the Fact". What an imangination this man has. I enjoyed Saberhagen's "Pilgrim", but this book is much more suspenceful. In "After the Fact" the hero has to reach back in time and save President Abraham Lincoln from assassination.

I must admit that I do enjoy P.E. Elrod's books.

Scrawler (Anne of Oregon)

Hello all

Scrawler, I haven't read anything by Laurell K. Hamilton but I have read almost everything by Anne Rice. Vampire books can be a good, exciting read but for me they're not quite the ultimate escape.

Hi BaBi! I half agree with you on vampires being over-used in literature.

Jaysedai6, I didn't know Fred Saberhagen wrote a vampire series. I love the series by Chelsea Quinn Yarbo, her vampire is so different from the usual.

I think that the best vampire book will always be the original: Dracula by Bram Stoker.

It was nice to see you all dropping in here!

I'm not sure this is the right place to post this but I just finished reading an interesting book: "The First Pet History of the World" by David Comfort. Here's an excerpt from the back jacket:

"Humans are haebrained when it comes to the little known field of pet history. Over the millennia, people have not merely lived with pets. They've worshiped them, elected them to office, persecuted them, sent them into battle, and even launched them into outer space."

"During the ancient ages pet proverbs and idioms were common. Here are some of the all-time greats:

He who lies down with dogs wakes up with fleas. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Every dog has his day. The leopard can't change his spots There's more than one way to skin a cat. etc, etc.

This book is full of quotes, puns, and short tales about animals throughout history. It seems we owe more than we know to our faithful friends.

Scrawler

Okay, Scrawler, I recognize most of those 'pet' incidents, but what pet got elected to what office? This I gotta hear!..Babi

Babi: "Divine pets of the Pyramid Period were given royal privileges, and some were even allowed on the throne. Though in later ages many were not even allowed on the furniture, much less the throne, there have been soem notable exceptions to the rule:

Rome, A.D. 40: Emperor Caligula appointed his racehorse, Incitiatus, consul of the Roman Empire.

Turkey, 1425: King Matyas ruled with his favorite kuvaz dog as co-regent.

Jabotao, Brazil, 1954: Smelly, a goat, was elected to the city council

Sao Paolo, Brazil, 1959: A female rhino was elected to the municipal council by a landslide fifty thousand votes.

Sunol, Ca. 1981: Bosco, a black Lab-Rottweiler cross was elected mayor. Every Halloween thereafter the retriever, wearing a red satin bow led the town parade.

United States, 1986: Morris the Cat, the former Animal Shelter stray, ran for the presidency as a Democrate. Former vice-president Mondale's daugher Eleanor, endorsed the candidate: "Morris realizes that prejudices exist, but he believes that, like records, they are meant to be broken. Morris gives teh examples of Harry Truman, who became the first haberdasher to inhabit the Oval Office, and John Kennedy who became the first Catholic."

"The First Pet History of the World" by David Comfort

Interesting isn't it?

Scrawler (Anne Of Oregon)

LOL That does sound like an interesting book, Anne!

In honour of the Books&Lit 7th birthday my list of seven of my favourite SF books:

Hyperion by Dan Simmons

The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge

Winterlong by Elizabeth Hand

Raising the Stones by Sheri S. Tepper

Lord Valentine's Castle by Robert Silverberg

The Doomsday Book by Connie Willis

The Wild Road by Gabriel King

What books are on your list of favourites?

Now that I see the list, ANNE, I do remember Caligula appointing his horse as a Consul. The rest are all new to me. For those actually elected to office, I can only suppose the community was expressing it's opinion of the available candidates. lol..

"Lord Valentine's Castle" sounds familiar to me, Nellie. I think I may have read it, but I'm not sure. I tried to find "Hyperion" at my library after someone spoke about it on SN (may have been you) but they don't have it. Leaving fantasy out of it, I would have to say my favorite SF book was "Dune". ...Babi

BaBi, Dune is on my personal top 100 list. Too bad they don't carry Hyperion in your library. Perhaps that is because the whole story takes place over four books of which Hyperion is the first.

I got money to buy books for my birthday and bought the following:

Stone of Tears by Terry Goodkind

The Isle of Battle by Sean Russell

Heir to the Shadows by Anne Bishop -2nd book in the Black Jewels Trilogy

Queen of Darkness by Anne Bishop -3rd book in the Black Jewels Trilogy

I highly recommend anything by Anne Bishop, she is a great fantasy author.

just startedthe alvin maker series by Orson Scott Card. read the first three books in two day, dishes did not get done, ate sandwiches and popcorn, going back to the library tomorrow for the next 3, the 7th book comes out in Nov. the title of the first book is Seventh Son

I can relate, Jay. I was enthralled when I picked up the first Alvin Maker book. It was also my first Orson Card book, which naturally put him on my mental list of favorite authors. ...Babi

Jay, BaBi, the Alvin Maker series is a good one. In fact, anything by Orson Scott Card is good. Have you read Ender's Game?

Not yet, Nellie. I'm about three books behind on my reading as it is. One of these days, tho'. ..BAbi

am reading 2 books by Anne Perry-Tathea and Come Armageddon. Could onlyfind the4th alvin maker book, have the other two on reserve.if you like big books,850 papes, Diana Gabaldon has a great series, so far there are 5 books about a woman on her honeymoon in 1945 in Scotland and somehow ends up, still in Scotland, but the year is 1743she goes back and forth between the times and finds true love in the 1700s. i know its not sci-fi, but it is fantasy

I read the Gabaldon Scotland series and I heartily agree. They are good. ...Babi

Hello all!

I've not read the series by Diane Gabaldon -though I may some day.

I've recently started reading Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth fantasy series -surprisingly good, but the books are thick tomes.

Sorry, Nellie... time seems too short nowadays for an entire series of large tomes. Too much else to be read. <bg> ...Babi

LOL How true, BaBi!

I'm enjoying the series and that's what counts, I think.

One of my favorite sci-fi authors is L.E. Modesitt, Jr. He has written the Recluse series, The Soprano Sorceress series, and several other series. I find his style very much to my liking, and his imagination and attention to detail outstanding. Are there any more Modesitt fans out there? Another one is Douglas Niles and his Watershed trilogy. There are a number of other authors I am fond of, but won't mention now. I hope someone out there has similar tastes in sci-fi.

Are they real SF or fantasy? I never saw books from either of them. They are not even listed in our local American shool General Library I found this on the net.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/9679/index.html

I just picked up an SF book by Andrew Greeley called "The Final Planet". I've liked his work in other genres; thot I'd see how he does with SF. ...Babi

Sea Bubble: You may be right. I read so extensively that I may not realize the change in genres. I frequent Barnes & Nobles Sci-fi section and all these books are found there. I do know that once you read either Modesitt or Niles you will enjoy them. I look forward to future discussions. Bad Dad

I believe Modisett has written in both genres. He did the Ecolitan series plus several others as well.

Hello everyone! I'm surfacing for a moment from the creation of my own book to see what is happening here

Bad Dad, L. E. Modesitt Jr. is one of those authors whom I've not yet read, but have on my mental list of authors I plan to read. The next time I visit the bookstore I'll get one of his books. Any recommendations? I've not heard of Douglas Niles before.

Hello Bubble!

BaBi, what is The Final Planet by Andrew Greely like?

Hi Brian!

I finished Shadow Puppets by Orson Scott Card this morning -it's another book in the Ender series. Not a bad book, but it wasn't one of his best either.

Sure, and Greeley's "The Final Planet" is another Irish story set in outer space and the far future. It's enjoyable, but predictable. It's pure Greeley, and only incidentally SF. ...Babi

Nellie: A good place to begin reading Modesitt would be: "The Magi'i of Cyador" and its companion "The Scion of Cyador." Hope you enjoy them!

Hello Bad Dad, I didn't see those titles in the bookstore, so I got Legacy -I can't check on the title because the book and all the other new books I bought is wrapped up until tomorrow as a gift. LOL I buy my own presents and it has been that way since my mother bought me duplicate copies of books in my collection.

Hi BaBi, I find that authors who usually write in another genre, don't do too well when they try writing science fiction or fantasy. It takes a lot of skill to write good science fiction or fantasy.

I wish everyone who visits here Happy Holidays!

Nellie. Check out Dana Stabenow.. She writes mostly mysteries, but has done at least two sci-fi.. Nicely done, space ship type. I liked them very much and love her conventional mysteries.

Thank you, Stephanie, I'll certainly check her out.

I just finished my first Modesitt book, "The Soprano Sorceress", with mixed reactions. It was very readable and held my interest, certainly. I just had problems with this singing sorceress who was knocking off people, singly or by the thousands (reluctantly, of course, and in a good cause), while insisting she had no other options. I could think of one or two other options, myself. Still, I will probably read the second book of this series one of these days. ..Babi

BaBi: I'm glad you read the Soprano Sorceress and will probably go on to read others in the series. You were very astute in noticing that there were several alternatives available to our heroine. Just let her go on for now and see what you think later. How about Anne McCaffrey and the Pern series? Anyone read them? I'm now reading an Orson Scott Card book called Saints. Not a sci-fi but interesting anyway. Good reading, and keep those pages turning. Bad Dad

BadDad, my daughter and I have read every Ann McCaffery book about Pern, and are devoted fans. Valerie (dtr) has saved every McCaffery book that came into her possession. I only wish Pern actually existed!

I am reading my first Sara Douglas book, "The Wayfarer Redemption". It is good, imaginative, and has some beautiful imagery. I recommend it. ...Babi

Count me in on the Pern books. I also liked several other series of Anne McCaffrey. Her characters seem to have a certain air , that I love. Killashandra was quite fascinating. The Freedom series was great. I loved them. All in all an interesting author.

Have you read McCaffreys 'living ships' series, Stephanie. They are fascinating. Children born with severe disabiities, but showing high intelligence, are given an opportunity to become part of a mind/machine symbiosis. The first were spaceships, and these damaged people were able to attain a freedom and independence they would never otherwise have had. A la Jules Verne, I can see the possibility of such a thing one day being attainable. ..Babi

Babi,, I especially like the Ship who Fought, although The Ship who Sang makes me cry every time. Anne wrote that she wrote it after her Dad died in his honor. A very moving story.

I finished Sara Douglass' "Wayfarer Redemption" and definitely like this author. It's fantasy, of course, and you have to be willing to take it as it comes. It draws upon the lore of more than one heritage. I've already picked up Book Two of the series, "Enchanter". ...Babi

Nellie: Have you finished reading Legacies by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. yet?I just finished his book Archform Beauty, which I really enjoyed. It is his first sci/fi mystery (At least that I know of), and was quite a change from the usual heavy stuff he gets into sometines. Also read Saints by Orson Scott Card, Sword of Fire by Ward Hawkins, and the 3 new Anne McCaffrey's (The Rowan, Damia, and Damia's Children.) All were very interesting. Keep on reading! Bad Dad

Glad you enjoyed the McCaffery books, BadDad, but they're not new. Rowan, Damia, and Damia's children have been around a while. I'm pretty sure there are later books in the Damia series also. ...Babi

Yes, Damia series has newer ones. I prefer the first three however. They got a bit complicated later as far as who was who.

I agree, Stephanie. Actually, I think that is true of most series. The later books are never as good as the first ones, IMO. ...Babi

Hello all! Just passing through quickly

Bad Dad, I haven't finished Legacies as yet. Lately my own book that I'm working on has precedence over everything else, and may for some time yet.

Have you given it a final title, yet, Nellie? When can we look for it in the bookstores? ...Babi

Hi BaBi and all

I'm working on the first draft of the novel and when I've finished that then I start all over again, revising and fixing spelling and grammar mistakes. It will be a while yet before I start sending out queries to agents and publishers.

Okay, Nellie, we'll be patient. (Need help with the spelling?) <bg> ...Babi

I've finished a Sci-Fi book that really was Sci-Fi! "Blood Music", by Greg Bear. I learned some more science, some intriguing 'what if's, but on the whole did not find the story plausible. Still, if you're looking for something that really is Sci-Fi and not fantasy, give it a try. ...Babi

Hello all!

I've resigned as DL since I'm much too busy with my own writing to do the position justice. I will still pop in on ocassion to see how things are going and to recommend some good books. I still read for one cannot be a good writer without reading.

Here are two books I commend as very good reading:

Hominids by Robert J Sawyer

Humans by Robert J Sawyer

They are the first two books in his Neanderthal Paralax trilogy.

Been working on a new vampire series. The author writes mysteries as well. Sort of light end vamps with a southern tilt. Fun.. When I get moved, will dig the first one out to tell you the authors name.. Everything is either packed or somewhere weird at this moment in time.

Hope the writing goes smoothly now, Nellie. Who will be leading Sci-Fi now, do you know? We'll give him/her a nice welcome. ...Babi

Good luck with the writing, Nellie. I miss your Jay a lot! lol Did you finish that story? where can it be read? Bubble

Hello all!

Stephanie, that vampire series sounds interesting and different.

BaBi, I don't know who'll be the new leader. Maybe no one at all. At the moment my name is still there.

Bubble, I did finish the version of the story you were reading in Malryn's group. I wasn't too pleased with it, and am in the process of rewriting the whole thing. It has changed a lot from the first version, but Jay is still his sexy self. It's funny that everyone who reads Thistledown likes Jay

Funny? He is huggable! Bubble

Thanks Bubble

Just stopping in to say "hello"

Hey, our Nellie, good to see you! How is your book coming along? (Nellie is writing a book). I see all kinds of people buying Sci Fi in the bookstores, but don't know much about it myself, except have just bought Shadowmancers which they say is one of the best books out to date I am not sure what category it's in, tho? Would it be Fantasy or? Not sure.)

For that matter I'm not sure what category Codex (by Lincoln Childs I think it is) is in but it sure is good. What are you all reading out there in Science Fiction?

Is the Stepford Wives Science Fiction?

How about R.U.R., have you all read that? It's the play that introduced the word Robot to the world.

What are you reading?

Fantasy does get lumped into the SF section of the library shelves, but if one wants to be purist about it, it probably should not be considered 'science fiction'. Science fiction should involve some elements of science, especially futuristic science.

Not that the dividing line is all that clear cut. Many novels involve both SciFi and fantasy. Then, too, one could say that much of today's 'science' was once considered pure fantasy.

Glad to have helped clear that up for you, Ginny. (*~*) ...Babi

Somebody needed to, Babi, hahaahhaah thank you!

Hello Ginny! Hello BaBi!

I read an hour every morning and an hour every night, and the book I'm reading now is Darwin's Children by Greg Bear. It's a sequel to his Darwin's Radio.

The novel is getting there slow but sure at times, and fast apace at others. So many things slow me down: not being able to come up with the right words, specially verbs. Did you know that adverbs are forbidden in writing? At least that's what 'they' or I think it was Stephen King who says that. Anyway, one is not supposed to write 'He ran quickly' but one is supposed to use a verb that means 'ran quickly'. LOL When you have a sieve for a brain like mine, it's hard to come up with the right verb.

Still it gets bigger each day one word at a time.

Hmmm,...I'd never noticed that. I'm sure some writers somewhere are using adverbs, but I see the point. It does make the writing more, I guess you could say, 'active'. On the other hand, "He ran full tilt down the narrow stairway" seems pretty energetic, too.

Break out the thesaurus, Nellie! : >) ...Babi

I love the Trek DS9 series and all authors who write them, my problem is locating the DS9 books for sale. Toni Maize

Hello, Toni, and welcome! We are delighted to find a Sci Fi fan here, have you looked on google for the D9books? We found that half.ebay.com which is not an auction, had a lot of books that you can't get anywhere else? What IS the DS9 series of Star Trek?

Are you a fan of the old series as well or the movies?

Welcome!

Hello, all. I've been away, but I'm back. I have been enjoying David Weber's Honor Harrington series - space opera with lots of books. Also, love Maxine McArthur, a new writer from Australia. She is writing what I call Hard SF, that is lots of science and a really tight story. Being an avid reader, I am always seeking the new, the unpredictable.

Hello again, our Jackie! How are you? We have missed you and are delighted to see you again!

Would you consider Michael Crichton Science Fiction? I know a lot of people wouldn't. But he sure has some creative ideas laced with science?

Hello, Ginny. I have missed you. Don't want to be cryptic, but my life got too complicated for a while. Michael Crichton is certainly SF in his wonderful Andromeda Strain. The movie is an excellent example of book to film, in my opinion. I haven't read his books in a while, but the definition of SF has become so loose that I think he qualifies. His sales have taken him into crossover territory so he has become mainstream. How do you classify him?

I don't know, he's certainly got a scientific bent, when you look at his latest books, they all have scholarship behind them. I can't seem to finish his very latest, because it scared me to death, it's appropriately titled, State of Fear. It's about Tsunamis and global warming but that's not what's frightening, it's the random and continual scariness of the opening pages.

For some reason I think of Sci Fi as space aliens, the older masters, Asimov, and Bradbury, where imagination soars and you never know what's coming. Crichton seems almost a new genre, and then there's Role Playing which I have no clue what THAT is, Sembia series, etc? I wish I had that R. A. Salvatore's royalties, I can tell you that.

And then how that fits in with the older classics, like The Invasion of the Body Snatchers and Heinlin or Dune, or Clark, I don't know. This is not a genre I can discuss with any confidence.

Are they still writing Sci Fi about men from outer space? What is Fantasy and does that always feature Extra Terrestials?

You know much more about this genre than I ever will, I am glad to see you back!

Thanks for the intro. to Maxine McArthur, JACKIE. I like SciFi w/ genuine science (how else am I going to learn?) and a tight story.

You're right, GINNY, about how vague the definition of SciFi has become. And after Star Trek and Star Wars, men from outer space are colleagues and co-workers!

Babi

Although Arthur Clarke once remarked that sufficiently advanced technology could not be distinguished from magic, the line between SF and fantasy is usually drawn between worlds extrapolating on known science and worlds involved with the material of fairy tales.

(for some reason I cannot figure out I am identified as winsum. I am Jan Sand and I correspond with winsum but we are different people)

I am extremely fond of alternate worlds.. IE.. Anne McCaffrey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Robert Heinlin. I also have a passion for a genre bender named Laurell Hamilton. Her books are vampires and witches and zombies and a funny murderous lady in the middle. The combination should be awful, but I adore them. I used to like Lynn Abbey, but have not seen anything by her for years. Hmm, I think I like female writers more than men. Did You know that Dana Stabenow who writes wonderful mysteries wrote at least two sci-fi.. The space opera sort of stuff. Ohh. that reminds. James Schmitz was great.. space opera, fantasy and know it all females, whats not to like.

Has anybody read "The Vang" by Christopher Rowley? It is the best SF horror story since John W. Campbell's "Who Goes There?".

Although Heinlein was a bit too libertarian in his philosophical outlook for my taste, he had a remarkable talent for seeing human potential. Many of his stories were placed within the matrix of a future history that he had devised. Chillingly he had predicted that a theological dictatorship would take over US government sometime in this era. The Bush administration with its enthusiasm for rigid Christian Right concepts to the detriment of science falls right within the Heinlein predictions.

I like Charles De Lint, eagerly seek for new books, or old ones I've missed. He writes urban fantasy, a really rich world beyond my words to describe. His center is a clone of Toronto; his street people are like you and I might be if we were 20/30 somethings today. People and spirits pop into and out of one another's stories; each new exposure adding layers of complexity to characters we thought we knew well.

Heinlen's world was quite complex and a little too male oriented to suit me, but I loved some of the stories. His early stuff was science oriented, but later he started building a world of his own. I loved the early Dune books b ecause of the complete world, but they just kept going further and further and ceased to be fun.

me too on the dune books the first two held my attention and then it wandered. I've been taking notes on all the books mentioned here. Most of them are new to me. I prefer the modern ones since I can then identify better with the characters. . . . . Claire/winsum

But the thing that I found attractive about Heinlein was his sharp preception of what things might be if extraordinary things occurred. He merely took the real genetic possibility that humans could be bred for long life and followed that string to remarkable conclusions. He stuffed it with odd geniuses, invented a space ship with a wonderful planetarium as its control room. a development from his Universe story where a mutiny had made the inhabitants unaware that the universe existed outside of the spaceship. The first version in Astounding Science Fiction contained religious texts on the history of the mutiny in strange analogy to the religious texts of Christianity and Islam. These were cut out of later book versions. The exploring families encountered the Jakeira who apparently worshipped a god in their temples but the families were astonished to discover that a real superintellect inhabited these temples and Heinlein had the perception to realize a real superintellect is not only incomprehensible to ordinary minds, it is horrifying. He did the same thing in "Goldfish Bowl" and "By His Bootstraps". And he made the encounters realistic enough to be frightening. Fred Hoyle did somewhat the same thing in "The Black Cloud" Although the sociology of Dune was interesting, the ecology of the planet was total nonsense. No planet with a breathable atmosphere could exist without much greenery to supply the oxygen.

No planet with a breathable atmosphere could exist without much greenery to supply the oxygen

that shouldn't be a problem. invent something else to oxygenise the system.

claire

I just copied it out and printed it but none of my current horror writers are there. . . . not even Tom Clancy or Koontz or King... claire

I forget the name but it has a young boy who doesn't know he's an alien in extra sensory connection with his dog. . . both running for their lives. sorta sweet.

I am not writing the novel, I am criticizing it. In Earth atmosphere there is a cycle that captures oxygen in carbon dioxode. The oxygen is then freed when plant material removed the carbon to form plant tissues. Dune has no such cyclic system. The entire planet is desert.

I'm not reading any SF right now; I'm waiting for the Latest Honor Harrington. She is an admiral in the "navy" (space, that is) in her borth country which is at war with a vastly bigger power. The stories are multi-thread as the action progresses, sometime centered on Honor, sometimes on the enemy power, sometimes on allies, etc. Honor is a genius at strategy, and her exploits are legend, as the cliche goes. Principally she lives on a planet that has a very male-centric society which owes its very life to her and its religious conservatives cannot adjust to her position, her power, and her very being. Lots of fun in an over-the-top kind of way. What are you all reading?

I have read some of the Honor Harrington books. I loved the Gray Lensman series.. Space opera at its best.. Oldies but goodies .. I am not a technical person,so too much tech stuff turns me off. I love the What if... type books. Just one small change and bang.. a different world entirely.

I love the sci-fi that opens up new vistas for me. No need to get too technical; just give me the over-all idea so I have a grasp on the possibilities. The kind of tech. that describes in detail some piece of machinery, or requires at least two years of physics--well, I skip over much of that.

I believe I have read an Honor Harrington book, but I don't recall which one. I'd like to sample some more of them.

Babi

with a setting in New York in the year 2059. In fact a whole series of them by J D Robb aka nora roberts who does romance novels which are boring. but the detective stories with EVE as a feisty detective are very well plotted and wwritten. J>D> invents gadgets for that time and it feels like it really is that time. . . convincing. . . . Claire

the series has a similar title throughout i.e. JUDGEMENT AND DEATH this and that and death. etc.

Me, too, Claire. I don't care much for romances, but I like Nora Roberts (Robb) mysteries. A good writer who can branch out to other genres finds multi-much more readers, Very profitable.

('Multi-much' is an invention of my own. No patent; feel free to borrow.)

Babi

I too love the Robb series ( tend to skip over the really graphic sex parts),but like the detective and her husband and coworkers. She posits a very interesting world indeed.

I'm presently reading a coupld of old Andre Norton books. I think I tended to neglect him; he deserves better. (Tho' I'm not sure it's a 'he'. He/she has written other books and I'm not sure which is the person and which is the pseudonym.

I was thinking yesterday a.m., while reading the stacks at the library, that there are so many mystery authors I had never heard of before, much less read. People must like them, since they've published so many books. I wonder if I could stick to a project of reading one book by each of them, to see how well I liked them.

Babi

BaBi, What a challenge! Would you have to complete each book? Some I have started but never could finish. Even when I was desperate for something to read,

Andre Norton is in fact a female type. She used to live in Winter Park, Fl, but am not quite sure she still does. Quite old actually. I have read a good many of her books, but years ago. Seems to me she did a series called "Witch World" There are so many detective story authors.. I agree. I try to read one of each type as I run on them and decide from that whether to read more. Some of the ones that are interesting and not well know.. Charlotte McLeod.. Now ther is a funny writer, not that well know and very very Northeastern. I love writers who use the area they are interested in or live in. Fun to read about different parts of the world or about different professions and what they do.

Stephanie, that is what I do, too. I have several categories I look for, and within those categories specific authors. But I'm always on the lookout for something new.

JACKIE, I never force myself to read a book that I'm not finding worth my time. If it can't interest me within a reasonable length of time I drop it.

Thanks for clarifying that for me, STEPHANIE. I believe the 'Witch World' series is considered one of her best. Charlotte McLeod is another I like; she has a flare for the ridiculous. She is a mystery writer, tho'. Has she done any SciFi?

Babi

No, NO scifi for McLeon. The two writers that I am sure of that do cross genre work are: Kate Wilhelm and Dana Stabenow.. and of course Norah Roberts.

If vampires count as SF, Charlaine Harris has a very funny series. In addition to her straight mysteries, the Shakespeare, Ark. series and the Aurora Teagarden. An author from waaaay back, Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, wrote in both genres.

The only way that vampires might qualify as science fiction is that there is established a scientific basis for vampires. Insofar as I have read, this has not yet been accomplished.

Isn't that an interesting thought! Would Dracula and Frankenstein qualify as SciFi, or would Science (they have SCIENCE) and Fiction (they have fiction) have to be about the future?

Love the discussions in here, welcome, Jan! I don't know much about SciFi, love Bradbury and Asimov, tho.

This is a discussion that is a permanant fixture amongst SF readers. Frankenstein is obviously SF as the current proliferation of organ transplanting witnesses. The difficulty of reviving dead tissue and the problems of compatibility of diverse body types may seem insurmountable today but discoveries in the field may even bring that closer to possibiity. Vampires, as presented in the genre, have strange powers which have no basis that I can see as potential in current or even predictable future science. They live forever unless pierced through the heart with a wooden spike, burst ito flame when exposed to sunlight, proliferate when they draw blood from victims, have super strength, can change into bats at will, have a hypnotic attraction for women and survive when buried with no known air supply. If there is any science, existing or potential, in these qualities, I have yet to hear of them. An analysis of these qualities once was made and the conclusion arrived at was that if vampires exist, the statistics of their feeding habits would long ago have converted all the humans existing today into vampires.

I think that vampires land squarely into the fantasy column.. I love Charlaine Harris.. Chelsea Quin Yarboro is also interesting although I like Laurell Hamilton more. I also have a book by Robin McKinley that is supposed to be good, have not read it yet. I also remember a three book trilogy about 10 years ago that did a neat sort of connection between Dracula and present day vampires in the US..Fun. Anne Rice used to be interesting, but her vampires got religon of all things.. Anyway there has always been a division between science type science fiction and fantasy..I tend to lean toward the fantasy side.Or also the sort of space opera,ie life in an enclosed space ship going to an unkn own star etc.

"division between science type science fiction and fantasy." I never knew there was one. My own division simply designated between known possible and probably and that which is not. It doesn't really matter to me as long as the story and the writing holds my interest.

Anybody who has explored imaginative fiction to any extent is well aware that SF is a universe larger than space opera or interstellar exploration. Stories if robots, of social and sexual differences, of odd creatures which explore biological possibilities not seen on Earth, of multi-dimensional explorations and parallel universes, of what might seem a minor change in technology that completely overturns current social systems, of looking at accepted social systems through alien eyes, all of these and more are science fiction and fascinating because they open new possibilities and novel viewpoints to present neglected opportunities and prepare the reader for a universe that is under continuous change. Distinguished minds such as the physicists Fred Hoyle and Robert Forward use the medium to open the minds of readers to new thinking. Social philosophers such as Plato,Edward Bellamy, Aldous Huxley, and George Orwell have explored social possibilities. The stories of H.G.Wells written about a century ago are still worthwhile reading.

Fantasy, on the other hand, has little to do with the possibilities physically available in our known universe. Fairies, elves, ghosts, vampires, wishes, magic, demons, etc. are great fun to read about and speculate with but they are basically evocations of fears and desires made solid and roam the realms of boogie men and angels and are useful in exploring our psychological selves but not to be taken seriously as concrete possibilities.

I read and enjoy both genres when they are well written. "Fancies and Goodnights" by John Collier and "The Cyberiad" by Stanislaw Lem are two collections of outstanding writing in both genres and are delightful reading.

The character of science fiction in distinction to fantasy seems to attract proto-scientists. Many people now involved in NASA and scientifically oriented disciplines have commented that their original motivation to enter the field came from their contact with science fiction. Although admittedly it is something of a stretch, advanced science and mathematics can be viewed as a form of science fiction. People in scientific fields abstract basic principles from known phenomena and combine these principles in a projected result if these principles hold true. In effect they are using the same methodology employed in good science fiction. They then carry it a step further and seek out areas where the existence of these phenomena, a step not taken by science fiction, can be confirmed. If the assumed phenomena are discovered to exist, then the projected fiction enters the realm of fact. The Greeks proposed atomic theory and it was a form of science fiction until modern techniques indicated that the theory is valid. Modern string theory falls within this speculative area. In many ways it explains basic atomic and cosmological phenomena but direct confirmation is still not available.

Jan, How lovely are your words! You articulated what has been unexpressed in my mind: advanced science and mathematics can be viewed as a form of science fiction. There is so much romance in the stories of great scientific and mathematical developments! SeniorNet Books is sadly lacking in discussion groups in this area. Seems as if Nonfiction means history & biography.

JAN, I am greatly enjoying your posts, and have made myself a note of the authors you recommended. Your thoughts on the subject are so orderly and well expressed, I find myself speculating that you are perhaps a professor of literature. Would I be right?'

Babi

Sorry. I am merely an industrial designer with a rather disorderly mind who has been reading SF and imaginative literature for a long time. I do write a lot of poetry for fun but am not formally published and have no real qualifications in literature. If you enter my name in Google you can see a couple of the poetry sites I have contributed to. Some of my poems deal with science fiction.

often enters the realm of science fiction? I put a page of it on my site have a look. He's very good. at least I think so. . . although he would argue with me about that.

see the table of contents for his poetry at my site available here under my name. . . . . Claire

a while ago and there is a short story about a household robot also on my page.

JUST LIKE ME

I like SF that seems like a plausible extension of what we already know or suspect.

Tom Clancy has done that in his many books and been investigated by the CIA and FBI because his imaginings are too close to the truth. He says that all the information is in the public domain and the additional is fiction but . . . . !!!

Claire

The Collier book is old and so very good. I read it many years ago and somewhere in this nest of books, I still have a paperback copy.. Just no idea where at the moment. I dont particularly like Lem, but he is a good hard science type writer. I like alternate worlds.. anne McCaffrey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, etc.

The Cyberiad is a very special book. It's a farce based on robots and it has all the depth of "Alice in Wonderland."

Being afflicted with a mild case of Seasonal Affect Disorder (SAD) which means I miss the sun when winter comes, I find I'm re-reading. And of course, I had to go back to Pern. There's something so satisfying about these folks in their almost post-appocolypse Pern and their dogged survival. Jan, I'm interested in your SF poetry. Glad you came by SeniorNet.

You would have a tough time in Helsinki in Winter when the sun rises at 10 am and sets around 4 pm. Luckily it has no effect on my emotions.

Here is one of my science fiction poems.

RETREAT

They spoke once of
The broken edge
Where world and sky
Made meeting
In catastrophe.
Where seas fell down
In steady roar
Into the sky,
Or pits of Hell.
What happened there
No one could tell.
No one had seen
Or cared to see
This horrific mystery.
When Magellan
Sought to find
This birthplace of infinity,
The Earth had sealed
Unto itself.
Grand horror fell
Back into the mind.

Once there were
Great man-shaped things
That lit the stars
And ate the moon
And rolled the Sun
Across the sky.
They shook the earth
And pissed the rain
And laughed with thunder
And disdain
At mankind's loss
And silly gain.
They told when
To plant and sing
And fear and die
And everything.
But, somehow,
Upon looking close
They proved far
Too bellicose.
The rules are calmer now,
It seems.
They've tumbled back
Into our dreams.

One God, at times,
Is still up there
Behind the stars
Somehow, somewhere.
He fusses on morality
And fiddles with
Our destiny,
But seems, most times,
If will is free,
Existing inconsistently.
His eyes are red,
His thoughts are tired.
His beard as white as snow.
The ovens in his antique Hell
Are burning very low.
The World, I fear,
Will soon dismiss
This Father of
Immortal bliss.

There is no longer
Any spoor
Of Moon creatures
Of Cavour,
And Mars has turned
To rocky dust.
Barsoom, it seems,
Is a bust.
And so the monsters
File away.
Locally
They've had their day.

But out beyond
Centaurus lies
The monsters
With their death-ray eyes.
There, around alien fires,
The spooks and gods
And monsters stalk.
The gods strum softly
On their lyres
While things
With twisty pseudopods
Drip acid slime and talk
In garbled yowls,
Soprano howls,
Of starships come
All filled with men,
That monsters reign
Supreme again.

Admittedly there are very few good funny books in any genre but SF seems particularly devoid of good humor. This is rather strange since the working elements of science fiction seem particularly adaptable to amusing situations such as a robot in love with its master or a Frankenstein monster coming to grips with the idiocy of humanity or the possibilities inherent in the mistakes inherent in creating artificial life. The films have done better here as with Mel Brooks' version of Frankenstein or The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy or the more recent Galaxy Quest. Woody Allen's "Sleeper" was nicely done.

Groundhog Day was a humorous adventure into parallel worlds not specifically indicated as science fiction. And the two versions of Flubber plus the series Back to the Future had a strong humorous element.

The books I previously noted, Stanislaw Lem's "The Cyberiad" and John Collier's "Fancies and Good Nights" both were very funny. To those two might be added Robert Sheckley's short story collection "Citizen in Space", a very funny book. Perhaps Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" might qualify.

Humor is a difficult medium which requires a high level of sophistication but when it is well done, it can do things no other emotional quality can accomplish.

Jan, about the poem: I am deeply moved by it. The images you create bring frissons and your use of words is awesome. Thank you for allowing me to experience your vision. About humor, how can you leave out Callahan's Crosstime Saloon? Or do you abhor puns? Humor, now I'm going to have to think hard. What an intellectual spark you have brought to us! So glad you are here.

And Piers Anthony play with words...daymares and nightmares come to mind.

Thanks for posting your poem for us, JAN. I have gotten out of the habit of reading poetry, and yours reminds me of what I've been missing. Great imagery.

Part of the problem is I don't know who the good modern poets are, and poetry I have picked up at random didn't really hold my interest.

Babi

Glad you liked it. I lean towards a variety of poets from John Donne and Shakespeare to Dylan Thomas, e.e.cummings, Ogden Nash, Dr. Seuss, Emily Dickenson, W.B.Yeats, Edgar Allan Poe, Wallace Stevens, Robert Frost, Carl Sandberg and a few others. It should be fun.

Here's another based on a future which continues our disrespect of the environment.

REQUIESCAT

There will come a day long years from now
When the sandy desert wind will whistle to itself.
No footprints dotting lines across the dunes.
All memories of Man put on the shelf.

No more the candy wrappers dance along the road
Nor empty beer cans glisten in the night
To softly clink and hoot in gusty breezes.
Cardboard boxes banished from all sight.

Brick will fracture, crumble back to clay,
Their trellises of steel will rust away.
No more apartments stacked like packages
In some mad marketing array.

Concrete roads will crack, becoming rocks.
Funguses and moss will fill the gaps.
Mice and birds scurry past the pole
Where an ancient traffic sign still slaps.

Tall trees erect their magic structure,
Sink sucking mouths to kiss the earth deep down.
Spread green eyes to meet the morning sun.
Seas of dandelions flood downtown.

Small reservoirs of elephants, big cats,
Re-infect the forests with their grace,
Forage in and out through columned aisles
While branches make cathedrals out of lace.

Ocean-wise the seagulls dip and rise
Like soaring eyebrows off in search of eyes.
The seas are full of carnivals of whales.
No hooks nor nets nor harpoons terrorize.

No oil that blackens seabirds' wings
To bury pleading eyes in gummy straw.
Blue water glints and flaps against the sun.
Gone, hulls that dive and slide and yaw.

Here and there an old reactor core,
Silent, lightless, tasteless, without smell
Inflames the skin of Earth with sterile death
Like splinters risen straight from central Hell.

The canisters that roll beneath the sea
Crack and split to spill their glowing gifts.
Dead blotches on soft muds and sands
Which slowly kills. Relentlessly it drifts.

These are the monuments to Man,
The zenith that he's left behind.
When Stonehenge and the pyramids are dust,
Small creatures will they maim and kill and blind.

The ship of Earth has heeled and slowly rights.
The disaster that was Man has passed away.
The tapestry of life reweaves itself.
Celestial Spring has come and it is May.

Predators still make their deadly hunts.
It's one on one by tooth and claw and wing.
Each creature kills by inborn skills.
Murder has become a home made thing.

No more millions die at one man's stroke
To make cosmetics, or, perhaps, a joke.
Forests do not fall for gossip's sake.
Life is blessed by human Ragnarok.

The strangest thing is that Man's demise
Was done by Man with no assist.
As if he knew the blight he was.

It's certain that he won't be missed.

JAN, that is a powerful poem! Have you had it published? I would expect any ecological magazine would love to print it.

That list of poets is 'old-timers', and I have enjoyed most of them. I haven't read Dylan Thomas;hadn't even heard of Wallace Stevens. I suppose all of the Dr. Seuss books are really poetry, tho' I had never considered that before. But when I am in the mood for poetry, the ones I know are the ones I pick up and read again.

Babi

Since senior moments are coming thick and fast today.. There is an English man who writes wonderfully funny science fiction.. I read several where Death is a character. .. Pratchett... aha.. thats it. Pratchett, Terry I think. Very funny man

I have had some of my things on sites on the net but never published in books. The obstacles to publishing poetry and the minuscle rewards do not seem worth my efforts.

Here's a poem based on the uncertainty of the universe.

GAME

I used to think that mystery
Hung somewhere out among the stars
Like silver bells and mirror balls
On the celestial Christmas tree.

But understanding changed my views.
To know how much you know reveals
That what is known is not too much,
And this is not too happy news.

So mystery crept here from night.
It rolled like mist up from the dusk
To blur and smear the sharp and clear,
Enticing with a subtle fright.

It did not hold out in the stars
But moved in close at breakfast time
To stare across the coffee pot
With one foot here and one on Mars.

Here its one-toothed finger points
To objects, thoughts, things solid, bright.
Sharp edges fuzz, ideas fall flat.
Frozen, I sit, world out of joint.

Yellow Eyes surveys my house
Where I have lived quite rigidly.
He turned construction into cheese
Transforming God to Mickey Mouse.

Now I play cards with Yellow Eyes.
The coffee pot has gone quite cold.
I sometimes, even, win a hand
To his chagrin and my surprise.

One should not ignore some of the Monty Python films which use science fiction themes.

When film first started using science fiction it was ill equipped to handle the visual enhancements that the pure imagination endows with the reader's mind. Nevertheless, some of the early films such as the Fredrick March "Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde and "Frankenstein" were effective and the former scared the bejesus out of me when I saw it as a kid. The effects in "The Man Who Could Work Miracles" and "The Shape of Things to Come" were not up to modern capabilities but were sufficient for the story. But H.G.Wells did not do as well with "The War of the Worlds" nor "The Time Machine". The novels were undeniably superior and full of depth and a good remake has yet to me done although Mars is no longer believable as a base for aliens. The film "The Day the Earth Stood Still" lost completely the magic and the mystery of the original story "Farewell to the Master" by Harry Bates. The John Carpenter version did capture the horror of "Who Goes There?" that the first version "The Thing From Outer Space" missed entirely. And "Alien" was finally well done.

"2001" was the gateway through which all subsequent good science fiction films emerged and the special effects when morphed into the Star Wars series were effective and entertaining although the original philosophical intent is almost entirely lost in space operas such as that and the Star Trek stuff. Some of the encounter with the strange and unknowable was present in the later version of "The Body Snatchers" but although the later versions of "King Kong" and "Godzilla " were great fun, the physics of such giant creatures is only marginally acceptable in physics.

"The Day After Tomorrow" may be dubious scientifically but it is not entirely unbelievable, especially after the recent tragedy of the tsunami. Speilberg's "ET" and "AI" are both good stories well done and good science fiction but "I Robot", although a good adventure story, has totally lost the thrust of Asimov's philosophy in his robot series.

A couple of books that should not be missed by SF readers are Kurt Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan" and Ursula Le Guin's "The Left Hand of Darkness". The first is an ironic farce which squarely faces the insignificance of humanity in the universe(it is handled with a deftness equal to that of Lem in his robot stories) and the second deals with a strange variety of humans that can be either male or female depending on largely psychological factors. There are animals on Earth that can manage this switch but the odd social culture that humans might form with this capability is nicely explored and very well told.

Jan, Left Hand of Darkness should be read by every adult in the world. The psychology of gender, as portrayed by Le Guin, left me breathless in astonishment. It changed me forever. Another revolutionary society Le Guin brought to life for me was the one, help me, Jan, about the totalitarian society. The grit and unending grimness she portrayed far surpassed the portrayal of a similar world in Orwell's 1984. Lois McMasters Bujold took me to a new understanding of alternative lifestyles with her Ethan of Athos. Having "lived" on Mars in Bradbury's Martian Chronicles, Sherri Tepper's The Gate to Women's Country, Niven's Wheel World, and on and on, I can hardly wait for the future.

Perhaps you mean "The Planet of Exile". You can reach LeGuin's own web site through Google with a good deal of material about her and her writing. I hate to become political but frankly the future here on Earth seems rather dim. I just heard a report today that almost all albatrosses are becoming extinct because the careless fishing practices of commercial fishermen are needlessly hooking and killing the birds. They just don't give a damn and it seems no one else who has any power does either.

Sherri Tepper delights and astounds me. She is a major write with womens themes in the science fiction universe.

Jan, thanks for the reference. The book is The Disposessed. Le Guin's background is fascinating. Her father was the anthropologist who became the guardian of Ishi, the last known Indian of his tribe. Found in 1912(?) he was taken to the University of California at Berkeley where Professor Kroeber taught. The U set up a laboratory where Ishi re-dreated hislifestyle, dwelling, etc. Very advanced for the time but no longer approved of treatment. He was more a pet than a fellow human. Sad to think of being the only one left of your kind.

Jan, my son, the Monty Python fan, would love you for that recommendation. I have been leery of Monty Python ever since I saw "Blazing Saddles". Andy (son) considers it a movie classic; my own reaction was 'ugh', with a blush.

Terry Pratchett is my love in that genre. I've only read one of his books that I didn't completely enjoy. That was the 'Hollywood' take-off.

Babi

Oh, Babi, how sad that you can't get into the fun that Monty Python's humor gives my family. Maybe today's TV is too "reality" obsessed; we need more wackiness!

I detest the new fad for 'reality' shows. I watched a couple of the earliest ones, strongly disagreed with the premises, and refuse to watch any more.

I think it was the campfire scene that did it for me, as far as Monty Python is concerned. I know...it's a classic...but to me it was really crude. I love a good laugh, but I just can't find farts funny.

Babi

No...no Blazing Saddles was Mel Brooks, etc, Not Monty Python.. Monty Python did several very english, very funny movies.. One was The Life of Brian.. Another a classic had the insult castle scenes, which still cause me to roll on the floor.. But Blazing Saddles, the Young Frankenstein and several others were Mel Brooks, the young Gene Wilder, et al.

Oh, dear! And I've been blaming that on Monty Python all this time. I must be sure and let Andy know about my confusion, and give Monty Python a test run. He'll be delighted...and in your debt, Stephanie.

Babi

I like Mel Brooks.. He also did the Springtime for Hitler that made such a hot on Broadway.. but he does love flatulence jokes.. Sigh.. The little boy coming out I would guess.

Stephanie, do you like Curb Your Enthusiasm?

Those of you interested in the current state of the art of humanoid robots might find this page interesting.

http://www.plyojump.com/hrp.html

Jackie, I love Curb your Enthusiasm.. I adore 6' Under.. My husband hates it, but I love it. I loved the sports agent on Sunday night that they canceled with the oriental woman agent.. Very funny indeed. Not fond of Carnivale. On Science Fiction and tv.. I love Star Trek, but the many many spinoffs have gotten away from me and I dont watch much any more. There was an old show called "V".. Sort of fun and Battlestar Galactia was a romp.

Do you remember "The Outer Limits?" Quite good.

I had forgotten Outer Limits and I did so like it. Dont think I missed a single one.Wasnt it Rod Serling??

No, that was "The Twilight Zone" which had some excellent shows but "The Outer Limits" came first.

I was rummaging thru' bookshelves today and found a book of short stories, Masterpieces of Fantasy and Enchantment. I no longer remember how much of it I originally read, but I suspect I would now recognize names I didn't know when I first got the book. It starts off with Ursula LeGuin's "The Rule of Names". Ray Bradbury is in the "Creatures" section, and L. Frank Baum is in the 'Worlds' section. Needless to say, I must read this again!

Babi

I even liked Deadwood! And Entourage! Outrageous, but funny.

Aha, Now I remember The Outer Limits.. I loved it. I keep a few Piers Antony on hand. He comes from Sanford , Florida and uses it in most of his series.. Sort of fun to recognize the area transported to yet another universe.

I'm getting antsy, too long between SF books. What I need is a nice long series, or an author who has written lots of book. Maybe I'll try Pratchett, although I'm not especially looking for humor, just something sciencey, and complex, and not predictable.

Pratchett is more weird than sciencey, JACKIE, but he definitely fills the requirement for unpredictable. Personally, I love him.

Babi

Pratchett is so neat, but science....no way.. Have you read the Gray Lensmen series.. Very space opera but great fun.. An old old series..

Never heard of the Grey Lensmen, Steph. Who wrote those?

Babi

The novel was originally published in Astounding Science Fiction written by E.E.Smith PhD. In spirit it was very close to the Star Wars film series. It was one of a series of novels dealing with the Lensmen who went through special training to acquire a gadget called a lens which was a complex semi-organic thing worn more or less like a wristwatch and enhanced the mental powers of the possessor and was keyed to the specific mentality of the individual possessor. They acted as a group to enforce the morality of an interstellar civilization. Their prime opponents were the Eich who had superior mental powers but were infinitely evil.

Sounds like just what I need. Thanks, Jan & Stephanie.

I cannot find them just now, but I had a 5 book series, creaky and falling apart of the Gray Lensmen.. Paperback yet.. So there are a bunch.. I loved them.

If you go to this source you will find several books in the series for sale.

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?bx=off&sts=t&ds=10&bi=0&an=E.E.Smith+PhD&tn=Lensman&sortby=2

writes a good detective series. I'm surprised it's not a tv series YET since there are at least sixteen of them. the IN DEATH SERIES strting with NAKED IN DEATH. I'm getting most of them from the library but they've had to scour the orange county system for them I own six, just picked up five and they have anther four waiting. I can read one in a little over a day so should be through by the end of the three weeks allowed. For those who like/don't like it she's got a lot of sex in there and a really good dective story in each one with the same characters mostly placed in the year 20059 with all sorts of life enhancements in regular use. . . . . Claire

Love the JD Robb, not fond of the Norah Roberts..line. I suspect it would be a hard thing to do a series of.. Science fiction and mystery is a hard nut to crack in the tv world.

would take a lot of special affects for sure. they could switch back and forth to animation as they do in other things though. .. . . claire

Planning to get started on collecting the Smith (Lensman) stories. What was his field? Sounds like an interesting man. When I started reading SF it was not something to brag about. Star Trek and Star Wars made it respectable. Many of the astronaughts, rocket scientists, etc. credit their youthful addiction to SF with their career choices. When I saw Star Wars for the first time (I went back 10 times) I was literally stunned, speechless.

The Lensmen are wonderful, but I truly know nothing about Doc Smith.. I think he was one of the oldies, but goodies years ago. He wrote a lot for the little magazines.. I loved those magazine so much as a teen.

Still haven't gotten to the Lensman series yet. Found a new Robin Hobb; now there's an addiction. Also read Sunshine by Peter Dickinson's wife, can't remember her name. That was definitely nothing like other vampire stories I've read! Maybe a sequel is in the offing. Are her other books as well sritten? Shall seriously seek Lensman stories this weekend.

Well, I'm going to pick up where I left off. Robin Hobb's Fools Fate is the latest in that rich tapestry which started with the live ships. If you have followed ththe tale this far, the plot has the requisite number of twists and turns. And that's only the first two pages! Hahahaha, to quote Ginny. Which leads me to the question I am posing today: How does a writer set out to create such a vast spectacle, literally a cast of thousands, ranging over so much territory. Threads twist and turn and kink and unravel. Part of what keeps us coming back for more.

I read Sunshine too, but dont think I would read any more by her. Did like the premise however. I love Peter Dickinson however./

Wasn't Anne McCaffrey the originator of the living ships? She wrote several books about these machine/human nergers. I've never seen it anywhere else. But then I've never read any Robin Hobbs, either.

Babi

Anne McCaffrey originated the ships.. I cry every time I read The Ship who Sang..I read somewhere she wrote it after her fathers death in his honor. It is a wonderful wonderful book

I also cry when I read the ship who sang. The ships Robim Hobb writes about are sailing ships made of a particular wood that allows the ship and its Master to bond. It is a vast, complex world Robin has created, described and illustrated in three trilogies. My daughter grew bored and stopped reading somewhere in the second trilogy, which involves the Farseer family, located to the north of the locale of the ships. Or is that the third trilogy? Amyway, you either like these books or you don't. I do!

I've been reading more of Cherryh lately. Her books have a solid sci-fi base that I find refreshing after large doses of fantasy. One can readily imagine her future science developments coming to pass. And wouldn't I love to be there when they do! ...Babi

I will have to look up Hobb. Sounds quite interesting. Cherryh interests me , but not all the time.

I've been alternating Cherryh with Bradley; works pretty well. And of course, I must have a good mystery regularly, too. Then I throw in an occasional good, informative non-fiction to balance my diet. :>)

Babi

Babi.. Ah a woman after my own heart. I do sci-fi,, vampire stuff, detectives, biographies and even a few general fiction.. Knee deep in books is my answer to everything.

a new bookstore opened here and the owner gave me all her paper back mysteries since she didn't plan to handle paperbacks. I'm still finding new authors I've never heard of. . . . claure

Claire, you lucky dog!! Hope you find treasure in there. ...Babi

Claire, Now you know how I felt when I bought a used book store and ran it for several years. I always felt as if I were in heaven. New authors every day, but at the same time, a lot of authors I realized quickly that I did not like at all.

I suspect that used book stores must be a labor of love and not too profitable. One of these is english and well written but I have trouble following the slang. . . and the setting is strange to e too. . . . claire

Never met anyone who actually made a living in a used book store. The rents are killers for the small profit retailer of any type.

Today I will make my weekly pilgrimage to B&N. The new books in the science fiction area will stretch on for three entire sections, and I will look and look and not find any thing that catches my eye. And I will be sad. Used to be I knew all about the authors, even if I didn't read them. I read Locus, and F&SF and Analog and, later, Isaac Asimov pulps. But now I have a handful of authors to look for and they do not appear very often. Still, there is a new Bujold, not about the further adventures of the Vors, but the second in a new series. Charlaine Harris has a new vampire book out. I wonder what Bubba will be up to now...Next, I will go the the used book store and look for Gray Lensman.

The only 'Grey Lensman' I could find had a title something like "The Grey Lensman, a History of Civilization". This I found somewhat off-putting. Is this a part of the Grey Lensman series you are talking about JACKIE?

Babi

Gray Lensman series by E.E. Smith in no particular order.. Gray Lensman, First Lensman, Second Stage Lensmen, Triplanetary and Galactic Patrol.There are more, but those four were in a four book series and I have kept them all these years. We are talking of boooks publisher in the 50 and 60's.. Reprinted at least until the late 60's and perhaps are once again. They were the policemen of the universe.. Very space opera and wonderful Good a new Charlaine Harris.. I also like Laurell Hamilton..Anne McCaffrey who is older and does not write much by herself anymore.. Marion Zimmer Bradley died, but there are some that they are continuing her series.. But her touch is lost.. I used to love Lynn Abbey, but have not seen much of her any more.. I look for the older authors in used books stores.. Much better.

When I looked for used books on the web, there were all kinds of Lensman books by authors I've never heard of. I think i will stick to the authentic Smith series that you are talking about, Stephanie.

As I remember a lot of the younger writers were heavily influenced by Smith and wrote in the lensmen worlds.. Sort of like all of the writers who write in Anne McCaffreys worlds, especially about the brain ships.

Hellooooooooooooo! The echo in here is awesome. I'm ordering the Lensman books tonight, haven't found any in local used bookstores. I sometimes think the search is as much fun as the finding. I'm waiting for my copy of Kite Runner to arrive. Picked up St Joan; that will be upcoming in Great Books, I guess. Why don't we SFers get together on a book? I'm game for any of the sub-genres. I miss SF!

This has never been one of the more heavily used groups. I would guess we just dont have that many fans of the genre. Since this was the first fiction that I started reading for love... I have kept it up all these years, but it seems that not many other has.

I think many SciFi fans, as well as fantasy fans, get tired of the series that go on, and on, and on , and on... As well as all the trilogies for which one can never find at least one book. Nevertheless, I love them, and persevere!

Babi

I noticed recently that there has been a reissue of the whole Lensmen series. That series like Eddings books,Tolkien and Moddiset(?)s make me wish I hadn't read them so I could read them again. I keep waiting for my "Old Timers" to kick in so they will be a new experience.

Curious Minds topic for March 15 is: Is there life on Mars? We SFers have been hypothesizing about life as is may exist in environments more hostile than Mars for 40 - 50 years and more. What are some notable life forms in your estimation? What locales stick in your memory? And, do you believe that life exists in places other than Mother Earth? I remember the day that I learned that Azimov himself did not believe that there was any other life except Earth's own. I went into a virtual decline that lasted for days!

is starting now? I have a subscription to the old one will it continue to work?

Life on Mars is a continuing question with small bits of answers as to what is below the surface and the possibilities of bacteria life forms already found. Whatever does come up may or may not be friendly. So all the old movies have enplanted in my a real caution as to the future relationship we may end up having with the Martians. Maybe they will see us as LUNCH? . . . . Claire

Lunch, as in bacteria food, maybe, One part of me is pulling for the rich tapestry of, say, Bradbury's The Martian Chronicles, another is thinking about tiny little microbes buried in the ice at the poles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/20/books/review/020JONASL.html?8bu&emc=bu

Science Fiction: Across the Universe By GERALD JONAS

Published: March 20, 2005

I recently finished a trilogy by a Kathy Tyers, called "The Firebird Trilogy". It's honest-to-goodness science fiction, and very enjoyable. It has an underlying religious theme, which often does not come off well. (I recently started a mystery featuring a 'born-again' Christian policewoman. Unfortunately, the police work side of it was very poor, and I didn't continue with it.)

Kathy Tyers turns out to be a very interesting person. She not only writes good science fiction, she has degrees in microbiology and education and is also a classical flutist, playing with the Bozeman Symphony Orchestra. (Her heroine, Firebird, is also an accomplished musician, in addition to being a trained fighter pilot.) Try it; you'll like it!

Babi

I'm reading the about the Lensmen, it is slow going. Dr. Smith sprinkles his text with lots of science bits, which take time to muddle through. While researching new SF I found that B&N has a really neat site for browsing for books. SF is divided into many different categories, such as space and exploration, social science, etc. etc. I realized, looking at the lists, that i had been overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of new books, and now I will have help in narrowing my search to what really interests me.

Babi, looked for Tyers' books at the neighborhood B&N but they didn't have it. I'll check the mega store and the Borders in Palo Alto next. There's always online ordering, too. I just finished an early Charles de Lindt, The Forest People or something like that. His theme so captivates my imagination, I find his books irrestistable.

There is a site called Abebooks that is frequently cheaper and more extensive than Amazon. This is from personal experience.

http://www.abebooks.com/

Thanks, Jan, I'll add that to my list. Glad to see you are still hanging around. I've missed you. What are you reading these days?

Not much, I'm afraid. I usually go through the annual collection "Best New SF". Currently I am going through number 13. My intense SF reading dealt with Astounding SF which became Analog from the years 1939 through the sixties. Since then I folowed a few authors such as Greg Bear and Ursula Le Guin.

Mra. Sherlock, I just found Kathy Tyers new book at my public library. I believe the trilogy I recommended before and this one, "Shivering World", are her first books. Which means I have a new author I like to look forward to.

If you don't find her, why not recommend her to your library? My library started getting Smith's "Ladies Detective Agency" series on my recommendation, and other books as well. I guess they figure if one old lady likes them, others will too. :>)

Babi

While looking for Tyers, I found Robin McKinley's Blue Sword. What fun! The review by Azimov's Science Fiction: "Any book that, at one point or another, reminded me of The Sheikh, Islandia, Gunga Din and The Lord of the Rings, can't be anything but a true original."

LOL!!! Now how are we supposed to take that?!!

Babi

Well, each of those references rang true. The story is somewhat predictable, but still riveting. The characters are entertaining and dimensional; makes me want to read more about them. All in all, I recommend this for its entertainment value.

Okay, I'm sold. I'll keep an eye open for The Blue Sword.

Babi

BaBi, how do you feel about reading YA (young adult) books? That's what Blue Sword is, Fun, but not deep.

There are some excellent books in the YA category. Some very good authors writing for the young adults. That won't deter me from enjoying "The Blue Sword".

Babi

NEW ON THE BEST-SELLER LIST of the NY Times:
Hardcover Fiction
#2) Revenge of the Sith By Matthew Stover
A new "Star Wars" novel, featuring Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Found a couple of books about alternate realities in the B&N Browse section of SF books. One is "1632", a small piece of present day West Virginia winds up in Germany in 1632. Interesting beginning. The other is Hominid, byt Robert Sawyer. A small bit of an alternate universe where Neanterthals are dominant appears in the middle of a physics experiment 4600 feet down in Canada; the bit is one of the Neanterthals, also himself a physicist. I'm readig both, so I'll keep you posted.

I'm partway through the two books; 1632, so far, is about social conflict: Ottoman Empire, Catholics, Germans, Jews, etc, but at the level of a small West Virginia town thrust into the middle of rapine and pillaging. So far more social comment than science. Lots of testosterone. Hominid is smaller scale, the effect, on both sides of the exchange, of a quantum physicist from an alternate universe being thrust into this one, a physicist who happens to be Neanderthal. The science is integral to this plot. What are you reading?

I am re-reading West of Eden trilogy by H. Harrison. It is as good the tenth time as it was the first.

Bubble, I know I've read that, but will you refresh my memory? I can't remember a thing about it. Thanks

What could have happened if physically weaker humans were in competition with sentient dinosaurs being the leading civilization.

Thanks, I've got to re-read that!

A report on 1632 and Hominids: both are first books in a series. Hominids is Science plus Social. 1632 is Politics plus Survival; it takes place during the Thirty Years Was, about which I know nothing. Interesting, large cast of characters, I got quite caught up in the different threads. I'm getting 1633 nest. Hominids has a smaler cast, but it includes both the people in our universe when the Neanderthal appears, and the people he left behind. Quite gripping, and I'm getting Humans, the second in this series, as well. I'm reading Burning Water by Mercedes Lackey; its a kind of mystery series about Diana Tregard, a genuine psychic. She is recruited by her old buddy, a detective on the Dallas PD, who is battling a mysterious series of cult-like murders. WARNING: They are not lovers! I'll also read more of these.

Is a story about what could happen if we really do radically change our envronment.

There is no longer any solid land . . the. entire planet is ocean and there are two different kinds of colonies. One, whose inhabitants live on great drifting islands of kelp which earlier was sentcent and are genetically altered in many extreme ways but who seem to live in their crowded environment as you might expect humans to and the mermen who live in comfort beneath the sea,who are technically more advanced, politically sophiticated and powerful. In apearance they are more human and certainly in the way they behave.

I'm usually more interested in books where I can identify so even though these creatures are odd, they act like us. I googled THE BOOKS OF FRANK HERBERT who also wrote the dune series and many other science fiction books. . . . Claire

I enjoyed The Lazarus Effect very much when I read it long ago. I'll read it again soon for sure. Thanks for reminding me of a good one.

Maybe each poster here could recommend their 3, 5 or 10 best reads over the years?

My three would have to be series:

The Pern series by Anne McCaffrey

The Ringworld series by Larry Niven

And the Dune series by Frank Herbert

Judy

I've read the first books (3?) of the dune series and I'm struck with wonder. How does Frank Herbert make this odd stuff so believable and interesting. . . It's not usually my bag. I like the J.D.Robb. series because it takes place in new York in some thing approaching my era and I can relate. put them on my list as well as the first two books of dune. he lost me after a while but I really enjoyed them. . . . Claire

oh yes, the Pern serie is tops for me too.

then Zenna Hendeson trilogy: The People.

I liked the Rama serie by Arthur Clarke, as most of his other books too.

I enjoy all I could find from Octavia Butler and C.J. Cherryh.

I haven't thought of Zenna Henderson's The People in a long time. In addition to those already mentioned: My three would have to include two by Connie Willis (actually everything she has written): To Say Nothing Of The Dog, and The Doomsday Book, not in order, and anything by Lois McMasters Bujold. Four and five would would include The Gate To Woman's Country by Sherri S. Tepper and (this is getting tougher) oh, anything by Charles de Lindt.

How could I forget Tepper? They are soo special.

The iniital "DUNE" is one of my all-time favorites. The longer the series got, however, the more it fell short of the original. I didn't like the last one I read at all; didn't look for any more.

Ann McCaffery's Pern series never fell short, however, IMO. Val and I still read everything we find by McCaffery. I'm so glad she is still writing.

Babi

Did she write any new one for Pern in 2004 or 2005?

Her son is writing them. His first one, Dragon's Blood (I think) was good, it whent back to the original gene manipulation era and followed an alternate line. I liked it, will read the next one.

Then I must look for it. What is her son's name?

His name is Todd McCaffrey, and the first book is Dragon's Kin. Dragon's Blood is his second book.

Bubble, I forgot Zenna Henderson! Thanks for reminding me. A few years ago I bought a hardcover book of a collection of all of her stories. It is one of my favorite books!

I will check out some of the others mentioned here that I have not read including Connie Willis.

Thanks for the interesting suggestions.

Judy

Stigler, could you give me the reference for that book containing the entire collection of her stories? I had three volumes and someone borrowed and never gave back the third one. I wonder if the book you mention is still available.

I will keep an eye open for Todd McCaffrey. Thanks!

I just read the Pern where Todd and his mother wrote it jointly. Nice indeed. I loved Zenna Henderson, but oh me, she wrote so little. I actually read somewhere that she was a teacher. The books are so very good. I also like Marion Zimmer Bradely, who is now dead, but her series was really good. I liked the first three of the Dune, but then they kept getting further and further. Anything by Sheri Tepper.. Any of the robot series by Asimov.. Lynn Abbey wrote a two or three book series on Horse clans that is good. I think that a man named James Schmitz.. wrote The Witches of Kares or some such. There were two or three in the series. Very funny indeed. I loved the Death books by Terry Pratchett. Longer and longer grows the list.

Bubbles, Here is the title and information: "Ingathering" by Zenna Henderson (subtitle) "The Complete People Stories" Published in 1995 by The NESFA Press, Post Office Box 809, Framingham, MA 01701-0203

I went into Amazon.com and see that the book is still available.

Judy

One of the most extreme eamples of series appeared in the writing of Robert Heinlein. Back in the early 1940's he laid out a future history and fitted many of his stories and novels to his plan. Later in his career he wrote many stories outside the future history but within that concept characters not only invaded each other stories but formed a coterie of historical personages to give the stories a framework of continuity.

Strangely, many of his predictions came into reality. One of his most disturbing predictions was the rise of a religious dictatorship in the USA early in the 21st century.

Has anyone ever read "Earth Abides" by George R. Stewart? It was written in 1949.

Not I, said the little .. Never mind. I'm not familiar with George Stewart or "Earth Abides", Jeane. What was it about?

Robert Heinlein I never liked. I tried reading a couple of his books, and then decided there was no point in spending my time aggravating myself. A friend of mine got quite huffy with me about it, as she thought Heinlein was great. Sor-r-r-ry...

Babi

A disease destroyed most of the world's population. The setting is the East Bay of Northern California. It's the story of one young man who survived, the people who join him, and their struggles to survive without all the modern conveniences.

A familiar theme earlier in the science fiction novels. Had to do with atomic warfare theories and there are several really good books written about lone survivors or groups and how they dealt with what was left of the world. Nevil Shute did one on Australia that was quite good.. Believe they also made a movie of it. There also was a really excellent one written by an author ( cannot remember his name) but he used Sanford, Florida as the place of survival. Interesting indeed. Sheri Tepper does a Canadian type survival with women.. REally really good. Just a really old and new theme.

Nevil Shute - The beach

I read that many years ago and it stayed in my mind because it was so well done. I even did a painting on it .. . naturally a beach scene. . . . Claire

Yes, I've read it, many years ago. Chelsea Quinn Yarboro also did one, takes place in Sacrament and the Sierra Nevadas. Always exhilerating to see mankind triumph over his own stupidity. That makes me think of something to get this discussion moving: Let's make lists of books by topic. Earth Abides is a good starting place, How many other good books with the same basic theme can we list? 20? What say you all?

Mrs. Sherlock, I'm thinking your memory must be way better than mine. I'm doing well if I can remember having read a book, if someone else gives me the title and author.

Or maybe it's just the ones I've read since my memory started going. I can remember fairly well the ones I read back when all my mental files were still accessible.

Babi

Another book in the 'Earth Abides' theme is "Alas! Babylon". I don't remember the author.

Judy

And the Alas Babylon ( I do love that book) was the one set in Sanford, Florida. Like Babi, I remember better the ones from years ago. I am lucky nowadays to remember the book I am currently working on. However I do like the theme stuff. I think of Anne McCaffrey who has written several series, but they mostly are alternate worlds of one type or another. She loves to mix in the celt heritage and has lived in Ireland for many years.

IMO, there have been no better alternate worlds than Pern and Dune. Both were created with not only a physical world, but a culture, a people, a history that are both convincing and fascinating. McCaffery remains peerless to me, tho', in that her books on Pern continue to fascinate, while the later Dune books became disappointing.

Babi

Babi, Darkover was pretty cool, too.

Remind me who wrote Darkover? I also enjoyed it much. Pern stil remain tops for me and I try to buy them all.

Marion Zimmer Bradley, who lived in Berkeley, CA, wrote the Darkover books. She died 2 or 3 years ago. Another woman author I devour is Lois McMasters Bujold. Her stories deal with a society which is feudalistic, militaristic, paternalistic, etc. Her Hero is a man who survived poisoning in the womb, is stunted, whose bones break if you look at them, etc. Remind you of women? Ther's spy stuff, SF stuff, romance, lots of different worlds. Important to read these in order, since the stories relate in chronology.

Yes Bujold is good! But I cold not find many of hers available in stores here.

Did you also like the Rama serie?

I could never get into the Rama series. I loved the beginning of Dune, but then it got too too complicated. I loved Zenna Henderson and her people.. They lived in our world and coped with being different. An interesting slant on science fiction. If you like to laugh really hard. Terry Pratchett writes a lot and does books with Death as the hero. They are hysterically funny. Would you be surprised to find that Death gets depressed? And sometimes goes on holiday. All in all a funny man.

I think Terry Pratchett is the funniest author I have come across in years. My favorite is "Men at Arms", but it makes more sense if you read "Guards, Guards" first. Some of his books involve some rather humorous witches--"Maskerade" is a good one of these. You have to be willing to put up with some crudity , though.

Glad to find some other Terry Pratchett fans. I've read everything my library has by him. I've read some of Bradley's books; they're good. I think I've read Bujold...sounds familiar. I'd have to hear some of the titles to be sure.

Babi

Oh good.. other Pratchett people. Yes, I love the witches.. Really personalities all their own. I try to collect all of the old stuff in used book stores, but not many people trade off his stuff.

Although the society was interesting, the ecology of a planet with no provision for transforming carbon dioxide into its components of carbon and oxygen struck me as a rather glaring omission.

Herbert was an early environmentalist and I dont think was a scientist. He was trying to set up a plan for long term changes in the atmosphere. That made the original novels quite interesting, but later it just got stupid. I am quite fond of sci-fi that postulates a closed system like a giant space ship that is traveling for centuries to reach distant civilizations and live. There used to be a whole series..Possibly Arthur Clarke..Anyway I loved them all.. One was about the city of Pittsburgh, which had been converted to a space going ship. Anyone else remember them??

Gosh funny you should ask, Stephanie! Got in and severely jet lagged, could not seem to think of anything that occupied my mind for 3 minutes, so picked up 2001, and just sat there slack jawed, had seen the movie but never read the book. Just spirited away, talk about distant lands and times. Could not put it down and finished it in one sitting.

I have to find out what happened, I have 2061 and somewhere 2010 and must go find it.

Sometimes you just feel like a special kind of book and sometimes SciFi really fits the bill.

I saw a LOT of Ursula Guin on my trip as well, is she still writing? She's a great writer but it may just be re releases.

See

http://templetongate.tripod.com/cities-in-flight.htm

For reference to the James Blish series of cities in flight.

Actually it was in a Big Little Book that Buck Rogers visualized a city in space in the 1930's. The asteroid Eros is a very peculiar elongated shape and the story fantasized that it was a city inside of a cylindrical envelope. Some of the history of Buck Rogers is at

http://www.mwotrc.com/rr2004_04/buckrogers.htm

Arthur C. Clarke in his novel "Rendezvous with Rama" wrote of a more believable artificial space environment constructed by aliens to travel between the stars and refuel at each star it stopped at.

James Blish.. I did love the series. Such a neat impossible way to go, but fun to read. Arthur Clarke is or was ( dont know which) an oceanographer or marine biologist.. A scientist in order words. ONe of the few people our older scientific son likes to read.

See http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Biography.html

saved in my "going to read some day" file. . . .Claire

Thank you, Jan, I've printed that out, what a remarkable life and man. My youngest and I were discussing him yesterday, 1917, what a remarkable person, thank you!

We have just lost James Doohan, who played the engineer Scotty on Star Trek. He was 85. He wasn't well established when he was cast for ST, and it colored how he was viewed for the rest of his life. Someone advised him just to accept it, and he did, and declared himself satisfied with the results. He also said he still got a kick out of people yelling "Beam me up" at him. I won't soon forget him lying on his back in the midst of a complicated mess of space-fiction type controls, with a monkey wrench in hand to fix them, saying I can't give you more than 15 seconds, sir.

Ave atque vale, Scotty.

Aha.. When out in the coach, found a great used book store in Montgomery, Al.. Found several older science fiction that I had wanted for year. Am deep into the second volume of James Blish.. Cities in Flight. Never read this one all the way through. Some of it was done in shorter segments in various science fiction magazines in the 50's.. Hurray for me. It is fun to be back with New York and Amalfi.

thanks for the trip down memory lane. I'll miss scotty.it's almost as if he were a real person. I'm an old trekki from he very beginning and all the way through to the new ENTERPRISE which I can't get into. My friends aren't there. . . . Claire

http://spaceshipradio.com/

must own science-fiction number 1

whre is everyone? read any good books latey. . .seen any good movies lately . . . anything scifi latey as in mousey chimeras . . .mice with human brains injected into their fetuses brains as stem cells. fact is stranger than fiction

I am reading Greg Bear sequel Darwin's Children, after having liked Darwin's radio. Evolution is in the air!

On Thursday 22 December you can hear on the net, on the BBC

Radio 9, 11.00-11.30pm GMT
The first of a comedy series set in a parallel universe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/radio9/pip/9wn2z/

It should be good! Bubble

Hello, out there. I've discovered a fantastic writer, Jack McDevitt. He writes space opera type stories, but his characters have depth and his story premises are very provocative. Space exploration is the theme, is there life out there? I remember when Isaac Asimov announced that he believed that there really was no other life except that found on Earth. I was devastated. Well, Jack McDevitt makes other life an enticing possibility.

another discovery I've madw at the Salem Public Library: Robert Charles Wilson's Spin. I can't remember when I've read a book that left me feeling like this one has. It left me breathless with its scope, its inventeiveness. It starts when three children, 12 & 13, are stargazing one night and the stars go out like the dial had been turned to "off". Where the story goes from there is impossible to guess, but it is a very satisfying journey. I've got to read more of this fantastic author. Anyone else read him? What did you think?

Robert Charles Wilson's Spin is spin the name of the book or the whole thing the name of the book or or or. . . .(S)

Hi, Winsum. Spin is the title of the book. Robert Charles Wilson has written other books each of which seems to have been nominated for an award. If you read the Pern stories, Dragon's Blood fits in rather nicely, even though it was written by Anne's son, Todd. Not a sequel to Dragon's Kin as I had expected. I seem to have finished the Jack McDevitt books. I could hardly put them down. What have you been readin lately?

I thought that Dragon's Blood was written by Jane Yolen. It is the start to a sci-fantasy trilogy.

I know that Todd wrote a dragon book and even read it, but dont remember it as being Dragons Blood.. He is not as good as his Mom.

That was Dragon Kin, by Todd. He will become good with time I suppose. Let's see with the next one!

I agree that Todd is not Anne, but she says in the introduction that he takes the Pern story to places she had never thought of. Certainly I never knew where the story was going. What is it about the Pern milieu that so attracts us? And is so satisfying?

I'll have to look out for the Jane Yolen books. Have you read them, Bubble?

I have read one only: Briar Rose. I intend to read more if I can find them.

http://www.bookhelpweb.com/authors/yolen/yolen.htm

At present I am reading the second volume of the trilogy by Robert Steward 1/ Hominids, 2/ Humans. The last one is Hybrids. Unfortunately I can't find it locally, I'll have to wait.

About Pern? We would all have liked to live there, to have that closeness to dragons and dragonets I suppose. There is so much about fairness, good feelings towards others, helping one another, it all talks to our heart. Bubble

a kind of scifi history I guess called STALLIONS GATe about the preparations for the first test of the atomic bomb fictionalized and told in the person of a native american sargent. spies and lies and indians. robt cruz smith the author..at least the cruz smith is. . .well written but somehow hard to swallow. Oppy and general grove are the good and the bad and the sargents captain who is using him as an informant since he is the chauffer and hears everything is the UGLY. remember tht movie from the L'Amour book. It's all too real we did kill all those people in Japan and the scientists were enjoying their work too much. Not sci fi enough. . .Claire

I enjoyed the Steward trilogy. I found those books listed on B&N SF where there was a category for alternate history. Another series I liked which I found there was: 1632, 1633, et al (can't remember the author). Imagine that a circle of West Virginia lifted up and deposited in 1632 Europe. Talk about culture shock! Fun. Anyone read Robert Stross? He's writing about an alternate universe, starts with a female light-house keeper in the Great Lakes. Lots of imagery, one can almost feel the cold sweeping off the lakes.

sounds interesting. btw author to stallions gate is MARTIN Cruz Smith not Robt. I'm making a list of your books Mrs. Sherlok sounds your taste sounds like my taste. . . Claire

Martin Cruz Smith mostly writes detectives. He originally started with a gypsy.. " Gypsy in Amber", then went to Arkady, a russian policeman. The Atomic one was sort of a bypass for him. Arkady is quite interesting. Pern ,, actually I like all of McCaffreys worlds. The Ships saga clutches me deep in my heart. PTB is a funny funny world and Freedom is a place where the great ingenuity of Humans is displayed. She has a gift for creating places that make your heart listen.

Stephanie, how beautifully you have expressed what I feel"...creating places that make your heart listen."

Winsum, I've found these exciting SF books at the B&N website where the various sub-genres are broken down and lists of those books are attached.

Just finished Blind Lake (I think the author is Robert Charles Wilson) and he continues to amaze me with his creativity. He can write characters so good you feel like you almost know them.

Mrs. Sherlock..My favorite characters are like yours.. Someone I would want to know.

Has anyone read this? I've enjoyed, found it hard to put down at times, what I read so far, I am almost done, maybe one more chapter.

If you like Anne Mccaffery, Pern series, this is really good for a first book from a kid. I am amazed this kid was 15 at the time he wrote it. My niece said she heard they were going to make a movie out of it.. New York Times, Best Seller

Loved it and it's sequel Eldest. It's great seeing someone that young do such a good job. Hopefully there will be more.

Thanks for another name to put on my list. 15! Gadzooks.

Paolini and Robt.Charles Wilson. Got it. Sheesh, ..where will I find the time?!!

Babi

Brian, I loved it also!! I finished it last night and can hardly wait to read Eldest!! Hope my niece has it.. she lent me "Aragon".

me too in southern C San Clemente. read your profile and share many of your interest. eleven years older and it shows on the outside not so much inside. . . .are you close enough for lunch? I can't do freeways though eyesight, but. . . ?

Have any of you started Sara Douglas new 'Crucible' series? I picked up books 1 & 2 at the library: "Nameless Day" and "Wounded Hawk". Valerie and I are both faithful readers since we first found her "Wayfarer" series. She is excellent.

Babi

Babi: Thanks, another new name.

Sherri S Tepper's first book, apparently, is out; called The True Game. What a concept. Boys of a certain class are raised in schools until the age of 25. The schools teach them how to conduct themselves in life which is a Game. Each boy develops his own talent and his talent gives his certain powers and constraints on his ability to function in the game. (Those not from a family with talents are pawns.) Glad I found this on my library's shelf of new SF books.

I made a note to look for that one. . . claire

"The True Game" sounds like a video game theme made into a book. Let me know how you like it, Mrs. Sherlock.

Babi

sheri Tepper has been around a long time. Do you mean this is the very first book she wrote years ago?

That's what the jacket blurb says. The story would have preceded the current electronic game frenzy, dating to the role-playing games so popular with college and high school kids twenty or thirty years ago. I suppose that the "string" could be traced back to Tolkein's books of the 50's. Remember "Frodo Lives"? BTW, I recommend the book.

I h ave probably read it, since I really like her and try to read all of her books.

Has anyone read Jig Johnson? I just finished Fudoki. It takes place 89 years after Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book and and Genji's Tale. The Emperor's half-sister is 70 and she is dying but she is disposing of her property, going through dozens of trunks, before she leaves for the seminary (it is bad luck to die in the Palace). Alternatively, as she sorts and discards, she decides to write a story - a story about a little cat. Cats at this time were rare in Japan, imported from Korea and spreading slowly out across the country from the capital. An earthquake and fire, destroying much of the quarter of the capital where the cat lives, chases her away from her home and family and her Fudoki, her family/life story. She is bereft, losing everything that defines her: "I am nothing; I am no one." The stories are told in parallel, the Princess and the cat. Very charming if you like Japanese literature, cats, fantasy. This is Johnson's second book; I've ordered the first, Fox Woman.

Anyone remembers/read The First Americans serie by William Sarabande?

http://rikkilee19.tripod.com/americans1.html

Bubble: That sounds so good! Did you like the series? How many books are there? Tell us more, please.

I have read the four first books and today discovered that there are 11 of them. You have all the titles on that site.

Have you read Auel's book about Ayla from the cave bear tribe? These books are similar but in America. I liked them very much. They tell a lot about the start of civilization, the fight to stay alive in a harsh nature.

My daughter loved the Jean Auel series. I'll be sure and tell her about Wm. Sarabande. I followed the Auel books thru the first four books, then I either tired of it or they just weren't as good as the earlier ones.

Babi

I'll look for this one when I have time to get involved. I'm a sucker for a series. . . have to read them all if I can. . . .claire

Well, I've had a computer glitch and couldn't log in under my previous name because, I'm not sure why. Anyway, her I am with a semi-new name. Same ol' me. Just finished Robert J Sawyer's Terminal Experiment which won a Nebula. I do like how this man writes. Solid science (I think) and good characterization. BUT, his premises are like no other SF writer I know of. I will read through all of his I can find.

Sawyer is fabulous. Do you visit his blog?

http://www.sfwriter.com/blog.htm

There today You can hear him read his first tale written when he was 7 years old...

Look at the links about his books

Ah, well, Mrs. Sherlock, 'Jackie' is shorter and easier to type anyway. It is odd, tho'. You might try contacting the "Webmaster" (see bottom of page on right) and tell him/her your problem.

Babi

Marcie fixed me up, my signon and password. I've got her email engraved on the inside of my eyelids. What a jewel she is. Anyway, Kij Johnson's first, Fox Woman, is another fantasy journey into Heian Japan. Un-put-downable if you are a fan as I am, but really stretches the imagination. There is another Heian fantasy in the offing. Then she's going to Samuel Johnson's England. Robert Sawyer's Calculating God has me "contemplating my navel" so to speak. Turns the current controversy between Darwin and Creationism on its head. Can't wait to see how it all comes out.

Thanks, Bubble, for telling us about this series. One of the libraries in our system has a copy of the first book of the series, Beyond The Sea of Ice, which is yellow with age and falling apart (copyright 1987).

It's easy to see why it has been so well used. William Sarabande tells a captivating story and I look forward to enjoying the rest of this series.

The harsh reality of life amongst ancient dwellers of the arctic that Sarabande describes is very similar to Jean Auel's Earth Children series.

I have reread it a few times too... and I am very careful not to have it fall apart!

I am always surprised how it is so little known, when Auel has so many fans.

I am also suprised so few have read West of Eden and its sequel. I loved it.

I also read Beyond The Sea of Ice... found it one of those books I couldn't put down. I think I started to read the second book, but for some reason put it down. What was its title?

I also loved The Earth Children series, except for some reason, I am not clear on, the last book Auel wrote (Passage) I didn't enjoy as much... maybe it's time I tried to read it again.

I haven't been to the Auel website in ages, does anyone have a clue when her next book will come out?

What is West Of Eden about?

Oh me, many many years ago, read that. Loved it.. I think that Jean Auen has been very very ill for many years. Not sure if she is still alive or not.

From her dedicated fans: She's alive and finishing her next book, thank G*d.. the rumors of her death probably started when Jean's step mother-in-law died.. Jean will be 70 on the 18th of Feb..

started when my son gave me CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR for xma since it was on the best seller list. The ones that followed kept me going but some were not as gripping as stories as they were in anthropological detail. I'd still read anything she writes though. . .now that's called A FAN. claire

Looking at the first part of the list of the Golden Age authors is looking at list of must read authors. I wish I had saved more of them. Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, Robert Silverberg, Arthur C. Clarke, Clifford D. Simak. Clarke wasn't as much of a favorite. The next names I am not familiar. I checked my 'Books Read' list and found Heinlein was listed the most.

Just goes to show ya', GINNY. Heinlein was the one I didn't care for. His whole viewpoint just turned me off. Asimov awes me just for his incredible versatility and genius. Is there anything that man can't do?

Babi

Heinlein could tell a story alright. Asimov had such creative ideas; his "Nightfall" still gives me chills at the sheer audacity of the concept. Why don't we create a list of our favorite stories by our favorite authors? I've always believed that Science Fiction created in my mind the fundamental concept that diversity is universal and paramount for the success of life in both the scientific sense and the intellectual and psychological senses. This belief has proven to be the principal building block of my political orientation also. There's another possible subject: What Science Fiction Means to Me. How say you all?

my political position grew with my wisdom teeth. . .I'm a yellow dog democrat which probably has nothing to do with my sci fi orientation except for a generally liberal mind SET. . . pun. they try to keep us out of trouble in the neutral discussions by providing political ones where we can trow things as each other if so inclined. . . keeping the peace. . . Claire

I have read and once owned a two volume hardback on the Masters of the Golden Age of Science Fiction. When I was young , I worshipped Asimav...When our older son went to Tufts in the 80's, Isaac came to the Intersession ( no credit, but great fun) to lecture. My son inquired and I went down and heard the lectures.. They had to transfer him to the largest hall on campus and even then it was mobbed. Students and all of us parents, who could get in. We all adored it.. He was funny and intelligent and just an all round good speaker. Now I am inclined toward Anne McCaffrey, who always gets my attention and keeps it.

I heard a sad story abvout Asimov: He actually died of complications of HIV, the result of surgery he had in the early 80's. His wife, or the publishers, depending on who is telling the story, wanted it kept quiet. How fortunate that you were able to see and hear this marvelous man.

A book that I can only remember snatches of maybe titled The Pictures of Pantane. The pictures were colorful light. A guy was plugged into some part of it. Sort of like a The Portrait of Adariane(sp?) Grey with portrait in the attic.

Ah Mrs. Sherlock,, that is sad. But he was in fact elderly by that time. He made a lot of jokes about his age at the lecture. His wife also came to it and a lot of professors. It was a magical night. Supposed to be an hour and lasted for 4 until they threw us out and locked the doors.. I hated the cold in New England, but there are magical things around the big universities and museums there. Miss that in my much loved Florida. We dont do culture well at all.

I couldn't agree more with your concept of diversity as universal. Good Lord, just think how many different shades of green there are, never mind all the other colors and their shades. Look at the diversity of plant life, animals, insects, birds.

That is why I am so confounded by people who think color or race or any other physical characteristic indicates superiority or inferiority. What? Are yellow flowers inferior to red flowers? The Creator made people different because he is, IMO, the master artist and he loves the variety he can create.

Stephanie, I'd have to pick Anne McCaffery also as the best of the living SciFi writers. Her books are all good!

Babi

I'd also put Anne up there in the top tier. But how can I leave out Connie Willis' great sense of humor? Kate Wilhelm? I could go on and on. How about our top ten authors? Maybe I could limir myself to only ten...

Should we limit a top ten to stricly sci/fi? It's so easy to wander over into fantasy when listing favorite authors in this genre. Sometimes they overlap.

Babi

I always have problems with science fiction and fantasy.. I know old timers who would argue that Anne is a Fantasy writer. There used to be fans, who were all for hardware etc. I like what I consider science fiction, but never cared for the highly technical type of writers.

Maybe we should change the name of this discussion to include fantasy. Looking over the books at B&N fantasy by sheer numbers dominates the field. I read back and forth; most aukthors today seem to be flexible. Perhaps the old rivalry is dead. I'll do some research; Locus, maybe, to start.

I never thought about it...just that in some of the fantasy area entire settings are created while in sci fi I think it's a development of a familiar or possible setting. I prefer the latter. . . claire

I remember when McCaffery went back, in one of her later books, to the early days of the settlement of Pern. There was some definite, and interesting, SciFi involved in the development of the smaller original dragonets into what they eventually became.

Mind over matter. That is a major theme in many books. Would you consider that fantasy or science fiction?

Babi

I think my favorites tend to be entire worlds.. They can be backed up with science, but the characters are what interests me.

and many sci fi and mystery theme writers use stock characters because they are more interested in the other stuff. . . I have to like the the characters to get involved. . .claire

And one of the things that made McCaffery's books so fascinating was the 'characters' of the dragons!

Babi

for me the dragons suggest that the books are more like fantasy than sci fi???

Me too.. I think McCaffery's books are more fantasy (the ones that I read that is).. unless I consider her first book, Pern series, where they traveled to Pern.

The only fantasy stuff is the presence of dragons and their telepathy... the rest of the Pern world is very earthlike. This is why I like it. I don't enjoy the real fantasy books with sorcerers, magi et all.

I agree much with Stephanie and winsum

Since I've only read three of her book and you guys are talking about it, I can see how people like Stephanie and Claire come to their conclusions. Dragon lore, of course, is the fantasy part. So the books are a mixture of both fantasy and sifi.. I guess I am not sure how I would classify them.. I've got to read more of them.

The dragons were given a biological reason for being in the book about the beginning, which was interesting. I like her Freedoms series. This is an interesting series, small but full of ideas. She keeps changing your realization on bad guys, which is neat and shows how the human races ability to make do can accomplish enormous things. If you havent tried it, do ,, It is fun and has some deep moments, when our heroine realizes that she is in love with an alien. There can never be children from this relationship, yet the new planet needs all of its citizens to produce.

These books always have a very human side to them, problems or dilemmas all of us could encounter. Maybe that is why they are so popular.

Fantasy can be summed up as Swords & Sorcery. There is usually some element of magic, sometimes spelled as magick. There can be intense character development, exotic locales, etc., but where science fiction requires a foundation (Pardon the pun, Isaac) in science, fantasy relies on wizards, magic wands, spells, etc. There was one series by Gayle Greeno about a feudal society which included 40 lb creatures called Gatti, much like my pet cats except they had telepathy amongst themselves and between their human partners. TThe bonding takes place sort of like MacCaffrey's dragon/human rite. Loved it! But there was no attempt at scientific justification except the gatti were indigenous to the planet and the humans were colonists. SOunds like we are all firmly in the science fiction camp, doesn't it?

I loved the Gatti trilogy! Did she write anything else? Strange... I never would call them fantasy!

An author I really like isCatherine Asaro. She writes science fiction series novels. She also has a series of fantasy novels. Sunrise Alley is the beginning of a new science fiction series. From her web site "Charon[bad guy] is experimenting with copying the minds of humans into android brains, implanted in human bodies to escape detection, and plans to make his own army of slaves that will follow his orders without question."

"Catherine Asaro ...received her Ph.D. in Chemical Physics and MA in Physics, both from Harvard, and a BS with Highest Honors in Chemistry from UCLA. Among the places she has done research are the University of Toronto in Canada, the Max Planck Institut für Astrophysik in Germany, and the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. Her research involved using quantum theory to describe the behavior of atoms and molecules. Catherine was a physics professor until 1990, when she established Molecudyne Research, which she currently runs."

Bubble, when I Googled Gayle Greeno I found nothing about her personally. She has not web site that I could find. Mysterious. gaj: I will check out Catherine Asaro. Always on the look out for new authors. Was in B&N tonight and couldn't find anything in SF that looked appealing. Too many choices.

MrsSherlock , Have you read Zenna Henderson? She wrote about The People. All her stories have been reprinted as one big volume: Ingathering- The Complete People stories. I received it from Amazon I think.

I loved Zenna, who was a schoolteacher. I never thought of her as fantasy of course. I did read a straight fantasy series years ago. Written by a woman.. The main characters could take on the characteristics of various beast.. Always the same one,,The gift was inherited, but the animal would vary by the person. Interesting, definitely fantasy.. I loved Marion Zimmer Bradley, but again, she designed a world.. connected it to earth, but gave it changes for one reason or another. She died and I do not like whoever is continuing the series however.

Bubble:Zenna Henderson - I haven't thought of her in years. Loved her stories, first read them in Analog, I think. Was thrilled when the book(s) came out. Stephanie, I like your criterion. Even if the "world" is earth, it is a new whole with its own logic. A good test. Simple yes or no. Example: Charles Stross' new series, The Family Trade is the first, starts with recent history and extrapolates into another whole logic set. Makes it science fiction?

The Family Trade sounds interesting. I have a son who likes alternate history. It is generally grouped with science fiction, but not sure why. Harry Turtledove writes a lot of alternative stuff and is something of a role model for it. I remember years and years ago reading "White Lotus?" By John Hershey. About life if the chinese took over the world. Fascinating book that I have not thought of for years.

Eric Flint writes alternate history, also. First is called "1632". Kind of fun. I'll look for Hershey's book. Thanks

White Lotus? Set in Korea, Hong Kong, and Macau, White Lotus is the story of Amerasian twins who were separated at birth and raised on opposite sides of the world. The twins reunite after twenty-four years only to be drawn into the deadly world of an undercover DEA agent investigating a Chinese secret society involved in illegal drugs, money laundering, and prostitution.

No,, the White Lotus may not be the real name then. Look up John Hershey.. Just did. White Lotus is the name, but it may be out of print. Maybe Amazon or the used book site could tell you if they have it. Wonderful book..So is Heroshima, which is probably his most famous book. I loved him as a writer and read most of his stuff. He is dead.

Hiroshima changed my life. Powerful. Didn't he also write A Bell for Adano? What a writer, he make me feel. Much writing lacks that emotional connection, doesn't it?

A Bell for Adano -( Hershey) An Italian-American major in World War II wins the love and admiration of the local townspeople when he searches for a replacement for the 700 year-old town bell that had been melted down for bullets by the fascists.

Yes it was a fantastic book!

I remember it vaguely. . .claire

I read Hiroshima as a late teen and like you, it changed my life. Until the book, I had not considered what had actually happened. Just to say.. bomb is one thing, to read of the devastation is quite another. Between the book and my being drawn to the Quakers, I ended up with alifelong hatred of war of any type. Righteous or not.

Today's political climate must cause you pain, as it does me. History must judge these events, but commentary by Daniel Shor on NPR today suggests that "Regime Change" is in the offing twice again.

I hope so and like stephanie I think of war as unnecessary and immoral...alll war. do we start it or defend ourselves..the latter is often necessary but this regime STARTED ONE. . .immoral in more ways than that. .

I remember my Father, after the Hiroshima bombing, being very grim and sad. He said, "That wasn't necessary! Truman could have set up a demonstration on some remote, deserted island, and invited the Japanese to send observers. That's all they'd need. They would have surrendered." America was, IMO, shamed by that decision.

If attacked, we must defend ourselves. That does not make the war less terrible.

Babi

Octabia Butler - I thought I had read one of hers but can't find which one. The San Francisco one I was thinking of was The City Not Long After. Which Butler should I start with?

The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde…

…has been moved to the UPCOMING and PROPOSED discussion table. I plan on doing a two week discussion of the Stevenson's classic, and I will post a schedule if it achieves a quorum. Please use the link below if you wish to sign on. With your posts, I'm sure it could develop into a fine discussion.

Jekyll and Hyde

You can use the link in the heading to reach the online reading web site that has included chapter numbers to help the reader to keep tract of the schedule pace.

Bill H

Why do we get the messages about a non sci fi book to be discussed. And not a book I liked the first time I read it either. Oh well. No help on Octavia Butler.. I read them off and on and in no particular order. A wonderful small series was Lynn Abbey.. She did two books on a female of the Horse Clan.. Sheer fantasy, but fun.. The women are warriers.

Discussion leaders leave notes anywhere you can find a book lover, Stephanie. Wouldn't want to miss anybody. <g>

Babi

Babi, guessed as much, but was feeling a bit testy about babble. I guess I feel that I know which discussions I want to join, but that is not fair to others.

Stephanie: Everyone has an off day now and then. Venyting here is better than taking a rifle out and shooting up the neighborhood! Besides, we dont mind.

The Poet of the Month is a new venture in the Poetry Discussion. How abvout we "pggy-back" on that idea and discuss one author each month. It is fun for us to discusswhat we are readeingt, but sometimes it is worthwhile to go into things a little deeper. Not only the what and who, but the why an author resonates, or doesn't. This is an important genre to me, accounting for many of my beliefs about life, the world, sicence, etc.

Sounds good to me.. There are authors who are interesting and that I have not read. This way I could learn a bit more.

That sounds like a wonderful idea, Jackie, I think you all should go for it. I'm leaving the country for a while but Patwest or Jane will be glad to help you put anything in the heading here you'd like.

I'll let them know, I love the idea!

I'll be happy to help. Just let me know who or what you would like added to the heading.

Fantasy is what I like best.

I like Fantasy. I think the conversation here is very interesting.

Shall we start with that fabulous combination of SF and Fantasy, Anne MacCaffrey's Pern? Her other worlds would also be welcome: Ships who sing, Acorna, Pegasus, etc. Or would you like to start with another of the great ones/ In any case, what we want to know about the author is: why is this author so memorable? What graphics and what text we have for this seminar is open for discussion, also.j I saw a tshirt which showed our galaxy and an arrow showing, "You are here". Sums it all up pretty well, doesn't it?

Link for Anne McCaffrey's Bibliography
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/m/anne-mccaffrey/

Another link.
http://mccaffrey.srellim.org/bibliography.htm

Anne McCaffrey.. I read and like her because her worlds have great appeal. I also fell in love with the Ship who sang. Makes me cry every single time I read it. I found out much later that she wrote it out of grief for her fathers death. She is an interesting woman who once lived in Wilmington, Delaware. This was of interest to me since I come from Delaware and not many people do. Such a small state actually. Anne has lived for many years now in Ireland however. Pern in the very first book of the series was subtly different from most fantasy. You could feel Lessa fear and distress and yet watch her straighten up to be brave and continue her families line. Very very significant to me since it was the female who was the stronger character in that first dragon book.

Octavia Butler, sadly, has died at 58. Here is a link to her obit:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/27/AR2006022701483.html

Staphanie: Thanks for starting being first to post in this segment. I have barely begun to think about McCaffrey's impact. Two things I know to start with: I like post -appocolypse tales, and the bond between dragon and rider is one which I envy. Her Ship series, again, the bond between ship and brawn is enviable. Acorna's stories are just light fun. The Pegasus tales seem dated now; have we given up on the idea that ESP is possible? The females in her various series are, as you pointed out, strong, human, striving, successful in their attempts to cope with the ins and outs of life. Her own life echoes this, she succeeded on her own.

Anne's Freedom series is an interesting variant on how to be an independent and free living human. It strikes me as a way to almost imitate the wild west in some ways. The cross species love affair contains a truth for us all. The colonists are fascinating and just when you think you know the villain, you discover that the answer is more complicated than that. All in all a nice small series.

I must have missed that series; will check it out because it sounds like just what I'm looking for. Winter doldrums require some nice escapism; fire blazing in the fireplace, hot chocolate, down comforter, nice book. Mmmm ...

MRS. SHERLOCK, I believe ESP is possible, I just don't believe it's accessible at an intellectual level, on demand. It seens, IMO, to occur at a more primitive emotional and instinctive level.

I remember a McCaffrey book calld "Freedom Landing", but I thought it was an early Pern story, a 'look-back' book. I wasn't aware of a Freedom series either. I'll check with my daughter; she's the McCaffrey expert. She may even have the series.

Babi

Mrs. Sherlock thank you very much for the link about Octavia Butler. It is a sad day.

Stephanie, thank you for your link also.

There should be a new Pern book soon, I think? That son of A. McCaffrey should practice more, to be as good.... lol

A variant on the Ship saga written in Anne's world was a brain that ran a small mining world. Cannot remember the writer, but it is quite good and a nice turn on the brains. Freedom is either three or four books.. I have three, but I keep thinking there was another one. PTB is another interesting series. It involves a sentient world and the government that runs the universe. Very funny and interesting. I would hate that cold a world, but it is fun.

In 2001 Octavia Butler wrote an essay for NPR in conjunction with a Un conference on world racism. You can read it at: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5245686

Mrs. Sherlock,

Thank you for the link. I am anxious to read "Kindred."

Dear BaBi. I hope this 'tweeks' your 'remember', lol! Freedom's Landing / Freedom's Choice / Freedom's Challenge are 3 books in Anne McCaffrey's 'Catteni' series. Below is a short synopsis of 'Freedom's Landing' the first book in the Catteni series :

It's the dawning of a new age for mankind when the Catteni descend to Earth and easily overcome the Earth's population. Thousands are herded onto slave ships headed for the intergalactic auction block. Kris Bjornsen is captured in Denver on her way to her college classes and wakes up on the primitive planet Barevi. Courageous and resourceful, she manages a single-woman escape from the Catteni and is living in the wilds of the planet when she comes to the aid of a Catteni soldier pursued by his own ranks. Recaptured together, they join forces with other slaves to outwit their captors and a hostile planetary environment.

And now since 2002 there is a new one 'Freedom's Ransom'.

They are all based on the 1970 short story 'The Thorns of Barevi' which appears in the 1977 collection 'Get Off the Unicorn'.

Now I have to dig out the Unicorn book, since I did not know that Freedom had a background.

Thanks, Solione. I am now sure I haven't read the Freedom series. Don't even remember having seen them. Now that I know they're out there, I'll alert my daughter Valerie and we'll go find them.

Babi

Solione, what a treasure trove of information. Can't wait to find the Freedom series. SOmewhere I have the Unicorn book, I'm sure. I'll be working on a table of McCaffrey's series, their themes, etc. She is really one of the major contributors to the state of SF today. And she meems to meet Stephanie's criterion of creating entire worlds for each series.

Mrs. Sherlock, there is a site called "Fantastic Fiction" that lists authors by last names, and then lists all their books by series and dates, as well as telling you about upcoming books. It's a gem and a great timesaver.

If you have any trouble finding it, let me know. I'll pull it up from my favorites and make a link for you.

Babi

Babi,thanks. Where have you been all my life! I looked ti up and here it is:

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/

Babi,, What a neat site.. Put it in my favorites list .

McCaffrey's bibliography is astounding. I wonder how the shared authorship works. Mercedes Lackey has many works that have other authors names on them, too. Marion Zimmer Bradley, in her Berkeley home, had something like a school for writers. Could it be economic? In the days of pulp (science) fiction, writers were getting 5 cents/word. A lesser name, paired with a name like McCaffrey, well, it beard thinking about.

I don't really know, but I imagine that the lead author, such as McCaffrey, has more ideas for stories than she can write. She finds another author whose writing she likes, and who can approximate or complement her style. McCaffery furnishes the story idea and outline, and the second author does most of the writing with input & final say from McCaffrey.

In other combinations, especially husband/wife combos, it has seemed to me that the husband carries the hero through, and the wife the heroine. This gives an added flavor to the story, to my mind, as you really do have two minds forming the progress of events.

Babi

lately in these books. I'm reading two of Donna Andrews books about a sentient computer who is the heroine. . .yes SHE is a woman. One of you referred me to it. tim and maude are her human helpers, but SHE runs the show. . . .claire

I would like to know if anyone here has read the story 'Enemy Mine', by Barry B. Longyear [A soldier from Earth crashlands on an alien world after sustaining battle damage. Eventually he encounters another survivor, but from the enemy species he was fighting; they band together to survive on this hostile world. In the end the human finds himself caring for his enemy in a completely unexpected way.] and what you thought of it? Also have you seen the movie of the same title? And what you thought of it??

solione I saw the movie of Enemy Mine and liked it. Who ever played the alien was very good.

In many cases another author wants to write in the more famous authors world. I think this happens to Anne McCaffrey. Elizabeth Scarborough, who also writes on her own likes to write in McCaffreys worlds..Petaybe for example. Also the Ships had several co authors. Marion Zimmer Bradley encouraged others to write in her worlds and there was also a fanzine that had stories written by fans in her world. After she died, her brother has been writing in her world ( Bradley), but he likes war and warlike things more than she did and I have given up reading them. A shame since I loved Bradleys world. Very creative.

Details about the movie, Enemy Mine can be found at the IOnternet Movie Data Base site, here:

Lou Gossett, Jr, played the alien. I thought both the book and the movie were outstanding, on my alltime favorites list. Wasn't there a TV series about aliens living among us, aliens who looked much like this alien? Can't remember its name; will ask my son. Another story that affected me deeply was James P Hogan's Giants series; Inherit the Stars was the first. Antiwar SF is an interest sub-genre. Joe Haldeman's Forever War was another one I recall. Anyuone read the Saberhagen series about Berserkers? I could go on and on...

Biography of Octavia Butler, "the first African-American woman to gain popularity and critical acclaim as a major science fiction writer."

http://voices.cla.umn.edu/vg/Bios/entries/butler_octavia_estelle.html

Bubble, thanks for the Octavia Butler web site. I like the way her books are linked into series; this will help me read them in order. Her worth continues to grow as I learn more about her. I'm eagerly anticipating my visit to the bookstore this weekend.

BTW, the television series which I was reminded of when we were talking about Enemy Mine was Alien Nation. The series was based on a 1985 movie of the same name, starring James Caan and Mandy Patinkin, a cop and his alien buddy respectively. The TV series was a spin-off of the movie.

I feel like Rip Van Winkle, waking up from a loooong nap. Has nobody been reading SF? I adnit that I've been lax, but I did start the Anne McCaffrey series about the planet Botany, Freedom's Landing. Thanks, Stephanie, it is a great new world!

Tom Clancy creates a world that is so close to the real thing he has govt agencies worried. This one is something like that. RAINBOW SIX. It's long and full of science and violence but I find I'm sticking to it . . ."aren't I?" a phrase he uses over and over thruout the book.

Winsum,. sounds like it truely is science and fiction. I'm reading Lois McMasters Bujold's Cetegandan again; it is packaged in one colume with Ethan of Athos and Labrynth (?) which must be a novella. While this is not quite a unique world, per Stephanie's definition of SF which I like more and more as I think on it, it is full of characters and intrigue, quite satisfying in my present mood.

science fiction is making up science to match the fiction of the characters and the settings. in this world. at least that's how I like it. I can't get oriented in a unique world for a while, can't identify except now and then as in the DUNE series long ago Frank Herbert manages to make his strange worlds work something like ours. the Lazares books where there is no solid land because of what the people of the world have done to the climate and odd shaped people because of genetic engineering makes sense. We're on our way to that now with global warming. . . .Claire

Found Anne McCaffrey's second Freedom book. Fans of McGiver will get a kick out of what these folks can do. WIll let you know what happens in book three when I can find it. What are YOU reading? Any Charles de Lint fans out there? My son gave me some SF annuals for a "brithday" gift. Fun reading the old short stories. I used to wait feverishly for each new issue of Analog and Fantasy & Science Fiction to come out each month. Then I was no good for anything until I had read them cover-to-cover. I felt like I chould hide them in a brown paper bag, cause they were not quite the stuff for a yound mother to parade around with. Addiction is a terrible burden. LOL

Jackie

There are 4 freedom books in the Catteni serie.

Oh, goodie! More fun to look forward to. Thanks.

I would love to read the 'Freedom's Landing' series, but I'm having trouble finding them. I'm thinking, tho', that I may have read one at one time, w/o realizing it wasn't an early Pern book. Was the book about the AI machine of the Catteni series? I really thought it was there to help out the early Pern settlers.

Babi

look here for the Catteni serie. I think they are available at B&N and probably Amazon as well.

Catteni

Thank you for your time and trouble, BUBBLE. Mostly, I try to find what I want at one of my libraries, first. However, since my daughter collects all McCaffery books, we could very well choose to buy these.

Babi

MrsSherlock, thanks for steering me to "Enemy Mine". I got ahold of it and thought it was very good. I've put the movie on my Netflix queue. I'll see what they make of it.

Glad to help and glad you liked it. It's probably time I read it again. too.

Lois McMasters Bujold had a comment I would like to share; it was in the Afterword of Miles, Mystery & Mayhem (combining Cetaganda, Ethan of Athos and "Labyrinth"). She is talking about the extra-uterine gestation: "Primary among my beliefs was that, given humanity as I knew it, there wasn't going to be just one way any new tech would be applied - and that the results were going to be even more chaotic than the causes." Love that thought!

Got the last 2 Catteni books at the library.

reading BAG OF BONES by Stephen King. this one is really well written and long. . .a serious effort. not all of his are. . . . claire

I liked the Early Stephen King, but not the later stuff at all. Been away and read no science fiction while gone.. Just light mystery to keep myself going..

We've missed you Stephanie. It's not the same with you gone.

all some seven-hundred odd pages of it, published in 1998. One of his best. I read it in two days, couldn't put it down. a convincing ghast story and then he handles kids well and theirs a delightful three year old in this one. My kids gave me the first four of the dark tower series which according to amazon reviewers are the best of the seven. I dont usually care for fantasies but will have a go at them. the first is GUN SLINGER. . .and I do like some westerns, those by Larry McMurtry and Louis L'Amour. have you read them and what do o think. . . Claire

I like Larry McMurtry who writes a wide variety of books.. Some westerns and some not.. An interesting writer, who happens to own and operate a used book store.. Lois Bujold.. Read a lot of her stuff. Always an interesting writer. I was in Italy and enjoyed the two weeks, but would never ever live there.

Finished the Catteni series. Seems like there was almost the promise of more, but guess she ran out of steam. Like the first one the best. Now have to start the search for someone who's writing and premise I can stick with.

Did you read the trilogy Neanderthals, Humans, Hybrids?

Yes, and loved it. In fact, that reminds me that I can search B&N's site for SF by theme, such as alternate reality, history, etc. Thanks! BYW, I had some Bubie's Dill Pickles with my lunch. They are the best. Any relation?

I have yet to read the fourth book in the Catteni series. JUst no time and a long long list of books to read. I would imagine there will be another PTB book as well. She sort of left them hanging.

From B&N list found Stephen Baxter's Evolution. It starts in the dinosaur age before the mass extinction, following a little mammal and its descendants through time. So far so good.

The little mammal, Purga, is a primate. She lives through the comet hitting the earth in Yucatan, and the subsequent horrors as life is virtually extinguished. The descriptions of the collision and its effects is fascinating. The thread of life from Purga's daughter skips some millions of years and picks up with first one descendant, more millions then another. In each interlude, the flora and fauna are realistically depicted. this is a great book.

Stephen Baxter's Evolution is so full of information. I learned why we have hair on our heads. Our primate brethren use grooming one another to build social bonds. Since we have "given up" our visible body hair, we developed head hair that can be groomed by others for social bonding! I'm so lazy I haven't looked up how a primate differs from other mammals. Does anyone know?

but he just grossed me out with his book DESPERATION. . . can't finish it. . . .claire

RE: Baxter's Evolution: He illuminates each stop on his travel through time with little vignettes. Along the way he introduces the climate, the social structure, the available foodstuffs, etc., in a very readable manner. In fact, I can almost picture the events as movies.

Katherine Kurz' The Adept is an exciting fantasy set in Scotland. First in a series. More later.

Here I am talking to myself again. Kurz' series still holding my interest; can she keep it? Evolution panned out. Not as much fun when it gets to more contemporary times which have been done by better authors, for example, No Enemy But TIme by Michael Bishop. Can't wait to read here what I'm reading next. Helloooooooooo?

I am not currently reading any sci fi, but I do like Katherine Kurz..Does anyone know if Lynn Abbey wrote more than the two books on the female horse clan series. The first two were excellent.

Stephanie, you've given me a new author to check out! Thanks.I Googled Horseclans and found the exciting series I used to read, written by Roberet Adams. Apparently they are being re-issued.

Robert Adams is the famous Horseclan author, but Lynn Abbey wrote at least two books that were sort of neat.. A female from a horseclan and how she survives and prospers when women were chattel.. Interesting indeed.

Found the Horseclan books by Lynn Abbey. 1. Daughter of the Bright Moon (1979) 2. The Black Flame (1980) These are the Rifkind Saga. The notation lists Rifkind's Challeng as being published in 2006.

Aha.. Will look for it. I loved the first two..

Talking of the Horseclans, I looked at lmy favorite used book store and found them. Bought #1 and #2. They are not as good as I remembered. For one thing, I am more interested in women writers today, and some of these male writers have too much testosterone too suit me. For another, knowing more of the details of Robert Adams'life, I can sense the author behind the words making it all too artifical. Scratch his name off my list.

Do you any of you know of some good alternate history books? And do you ever have a discussion of a book like some of the other discussion groups here?

Scrawler, I enjoy alternate history. Elic Flint wrote a series starting with "1632" about a piece of Sest Virginia which is transported to central Europe in 1632. It was a fun read and has sequels. Robert J Sawyer wrote a series about a parallel universi wherein the Crw-magnons because dominant; first book is Hominids. I just read a Robert Varley book called Mammoth, the search for viable mammoth DNA by a rich tycoon who wants to recreate the hairy beasts. This is B&N's webite for alternate history/time travel, etc., books. I haven't looked at ir for a while, but I did read the Sawyer and Flint books after seeing them listed here. In mainstream fiction there's The Time Traveller's Wife. I've read it but would love to read it again and discuss it. B&N's Alternate History SF Lists

I'd love to discuss a book here. All we need is three readers and a leader (and of course agreement as to which book we'd discuss) Also we could discuss an author's oeuvre.

Have you read alternate history? What did you like? Or hate? Let me know; I'm always looking for good SF.

a different world in south africa and with the legal pirates seeking booty. lots of action. I've read most of the courtney ones but there are lots more. . . .claire

There was a book about WWII England that was very good but I can't remember the author or title

http://www.asimovonline.com check out his page and see what you think. His works are classic and as I've just learned basic to robotics which are recently becoming fact. I'd be interested in anything he's written. . . .claire

The Robert Sawyers trilogy about the Neanderthals is very good: Hominid is the first volume, then Humans and the last is called Hybrids.

Winsum--Thanks for the Asimov link. The robot series is well worth reading, both the short stories and the detective stories involving Elijah Bailey and R Daneel Olivaw (the robot). I haven't seen the recent movie, which seems to have little relation to Asimov's stories, but I did read the older screenplay by Harlan Elison, and thought it good, but that it would be difficult actually to make a movie based on it. Apparantly, Elison messed up whatever chane he had of getting it produced by saying that the proposed producer had "the brains of an artichoke".

For getting started, I would reccommend either the short story collection "I, Robot" or the first detective story "Caves of Steel"

I, Robot is a very good place to start. The movie was good on its own if you could ignore any expectations of Azimov's humanity surviving. In fact, I, Robot would make a good book for discussion. When I read it it was carved on stone tablets!

Thanks for the link, Mrs.Sherlock. My library has "The Time Travelers' Wife", which was on the B&N list, and I have been wondering whether to try it. I checked into "What People Say" and it had some strong recommendations. I'll add it to my 'list'.

Babi

These are some of my favorite authors of alternate histories:

Harry Turtledove
Harry Harrison
L. Sprague de Camp [Let Darkness Fall]
Robert Harris [Fatherland]
Ward More [Bring The Jubilee]
Gregory Benford [Manassas, Again & We Could Do Worse]

"We Could Do Worse" was especially chilling to me. It is a short story in which the president of the United States is Joe McCarthy. This short story appeared in "The Best Alternate History Stories of the 20th Century."

Scrawler, the title, We Could Do Worse, is chilling in its implications. Those are all good names, many familiar. I'll check them out.

Footprints of Thunder, James F. David, is another take on alternate history. Very exciting, lots of "thud and blunder". Checking B&N shows a sequel out this year called Thunder of Time. I can't wait to read it and see what happens next.

Robert Harris might be the author I was trying to remember. His Enigma might be the book.

Ran into Dana Stabenow in the SF racks at my favotire used book store. Second Star is the first of two, great fun. Lots of hard science, but she has her characters well portrayed. Exciting. I've just received a copy of Spider Robinson's Callahan"s Crosstime Saloon for my sister. She loves funny books and I'm betting she will howl over the marvelous puns. Maybe I'll reread it before I give it to her. She likes Piers Anthony, but I'm not a fan. Humor is so hard to do right. SOme "humor" leaves me cold, but I still seek it out.

Piers Anthony's night-mare and day-mare lol. Isn't he the one who wrote a book for Jenny? He did help that girl regain a taste for life.

I like some of Piers Anthony, but the Xanth escapes me. Terry Pratchett who loves to write about very very odd people indeed makes me laugh really hard. Spiders Cross Time Saloon is too too funny.

Terry Pratchett is a great favorite of mine, Stephanie. I keep watching for something new from him. I didn't know Stabenow had written some Sci-fi, Mrs. Sherlock. Your review sounds good to me; I'll have to add her to my S-F list.

Babi

I think Terry Pratchett is the funniest writer I have come across in years. You have to have a tolerance for crudity, though, and it helps to be familiar with English culture. If I were advising someone starting out, I think I would start out with "Guards, Guards", then "Men at Arms", my absolute favorite. "Maskerade" is another good one. Of recent books, I thought "Going Postal" was poor, but "Monstrous Regiment" was excellent.

He has a wonderful sense of timing; he can throw in a joke he has used many times before, but because it fits in so perfectly and comes just at the right time, you laugh your head off again.

Dan wrote only two or three sci-fi early in her career. I loved them but wow are they hard to find. I like Terry on his Death stuff. Very silly indeed

Wow! have we been slow in posting here, or what? I confess that I haven't been reading much SF recently, but Octavia Butler has enticed me back into the fold. Wild Seed is the title, and it is like nothing, I repeate, nothing I have ever read. Has anyone else read this book? Please comment if you have. Her other books are on my list and I can't wait to see what else this remarkably talented writer had to say.

Mrs. Sherlock I will put it on my library list for this week. I have been wanting to read Octavia Butler.

Hats, be prepared. This is a very unusual premise. I'[m eager to see what you think of it.

I have read others from O. Butler, I enjoy them because they still make me think about issues long after I read them.

I read the trilogy Dawn, Adulthood Rites. Imago. Also Mind of my mind, Patern Master, and Parable of the Sower.

I think you will really enjoy her Hats. I think of them more as "serious SF books".

Bubble I am going to try "Parable of the Sower." I think that's the one about American slavery.

It is the story of an empath in the next century. Very powerful.

Parable

Wow! That's a powerful story. I am going to the library.

Bubble, thanks for the review. Butler's vision is very deep and the issues she raises are complex but her people are memorable. I can't quit thinking about the characters in Wild Seed.

I read "Wild Seed" a number of years ago and you're right, MrsSherlock, it's like nothing else. All of Butler's stuff is powerful, and it keeps on ringing in your mind long after you have read it.

I recently read "Kindred". It is the story of a modern young black woman writer who keeps getting transported back in time to a plantation on the Eastern Shore to save the life of the white son of the plantation owner. Eventually she figures out that this is her ancestor, father of the child of one of the slaves who was her ancestor, and her mission is to keep him alive long enough for the child to be conceived. Each trip back is more dangerous than the last. We get a very full picture of the life of the slaves plus a well-drawn picture of the white ancestor, who is weak and selfish. It's well-done and powerful, and, as with "Wild Seed", it stays in your head. It's kind of depressing, though, to be reminded in detail just how bad the life of the slaves was.

"Kindred" is the title I am thinking about.

You know what I would like to know? I would like to have an easy definition of Science Fiction. How is it different from Fantasy?

science fiction,
a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc.

Fantasy, Also, fantasia. Literature.
an imaginative or fanciful work, esp. one dealing with supernatural or unnatural events or characters: The stories of Poe are fantasies of horror.

So, it sounds as if Butler's work might almost be fantasy. Wild Seed is genetics with elements of ESP. Sci Fantasy?

I would not call O Butler's books fantasy: I don't remember any supernatural or unnatural happenings there: no magic, no fairies, no alchemistry. It always feels like very tangible plausible worlds.

Put Kindred on reserve at the library.

Bubble, I think your definitions of science fiction versus fantasy are the best I've seen. Telling the difference is often pretty fuzzy. I would definitely call "Kindred" and "Wild Seed" fantasy, since in the first there is time travel, and in the second the principal characters have powers that do not exist in our world. Some of Butler's other works are more science fiction. It's interesting that sometimes through fantasy you can make truer comments on our world than with conventional fiction.

In a sense SF has always been subversive. Truths which were not faced in real life were proposed and explored in SF. Having read about planets being terra-formed, I knew about ecology before it was a word. Reading about other sentient life, I knew that the peoples of earth are one. I was able to experience vicariously what it was to live in a society where there were more than two discrete genders, where socialism in its truest form distorted families, where mind spoke to mind, no matter the species. I've "seen" red suns, purple skies, blue trees. All these "realities" are subversive to one political entity or another, one religion or another. SF allows me to hope that the future will be better than the past or the present.

the second of a Frank Herbert Triligy was an extension of the idea that man can radically affect our environment. all land was gone the world was one of water through the experiments and mistakes of an irresponsible scientific community. But the same social, political,personal problems exist. I recommend it if you can imagine living on the ocean floor or an island made of kelp.

claire

There are many books that mingle elements of both science fiction and fantasy, further obscuring the defining lines. And there are books that are are simply novels in a futuristic setting. Robb's Eve Dallas series is an example. They are definitely police mysteries, despite the modern wonders that aren't quite here yet.

Speaking of modern wonders, have you seen the new 'pocket' computers that Japan has developed? They look like fountain pens w/ mini cameras.

Babi

Science fiction often contains the seeds of change that is important to the writer. Octavia Butler does this often in her books. Some of it is often for fun too, though since Terry Pratchett makes me howl with laughter in his Death series.

I'm almost done reading Gorge Orwells 1984. I absolutely love this book. It tells a story of the future in the past. It's an amazing book and I would defiantly recommend it!

Welcome, Yellow77. Orwell's Animal Farm is another good one, but very different from 1984. Have you read other SF books that you liked?

Animal FArm to me is amazing. When I was 12, I read it as a strightforward story.. Then in college, we reread it and I realized the allegory part. By the way I never liked pigs,, so empathized with the horse..

Boxer? me, too. "I will try harder."

If I am remembering correctly, I read, 1984, Animal Farm, Lord of the Flies and Brave New World around the same time. George Orwell, William Golding and Aldous Huxley understood human behavior. The good Sci/Fi authors usually had a message in their writing.

I have read Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm. I didn't think of these titles as coming from the Science Fiction genre. Why is Lord of the Flies considered Science Fiction?

Lord of the Flies isn't Sci/Fi. I just lumped it with the others because of the impact of the theme.

Oh, now I see Ginny Ann.

Lord of the Flies could qualify as fantasy however.

Lois McMasters Bujold's new series has caught me up in its strong characters and complex plot. Her mastery of political cross currents, so evident in the Vor series, is in full bloom here. The Hallowed Hunt (#3) features a tarnished man-of-all-trades, and minor noblewoman accused of murdering a royal prince, religious factions, sorcerors, etc., etc. Keeps me trying to read at night when my eyes insist on closing.

I agr ee that Lois seems to have a firm finger on political machinations. I have read several of her books.

Bujold is one I haven't read. Time to explore. Thanks, Mrs. Sherlock. Finding a good new Sci/Fi author is alway appreciated.

Babi

I heard a very funny audio tape on the radio..through my coputer yesterday by this great science fiction writer. here is an interview and in fact a whole page of goodies.

http://www.delos.fantascienza.com/ie/sheckley.html

this is his AMOST offical homepage. http://tinyurl.com/pwsh5

Sorry to have missed so much of your discussions here. I just thought I'd look at your board, although I dont read much fiction of any sort these days. I know I should. Gaj, I do agree with you that SF if it's good , has an important meaning. That goes for any fiction, but for SF the meaning is often a philosophic adventure. Star Trek comes to mind, even although i suppose it was inconsistent in parts.' Beam me up' is now part of the English language

Years ago I read C S Lewis's trilogy Out of the Silent Planet and i liked it a lot, especially the first book.

Has anyone read His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman?

Winsum, that author has some super-smiling answers

I will check out Pullman at the library. Thanks.

Mrs Sherlock I hope I have not misled you or anyone. His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman is more properly fantasy than sci fi. It certainly is packed with meaning though. One of the trilogy was re-titled for US readers, I dont think the trilogy title was changed

Thanks, Malllylee, but I read fantasy. Lois McMasters Bujold Chalion series has me enthralled right now. I snap up the latest Charles DeLindt whenever it appears. Anne McCaffrey and Elizabeth Scarborough have a series I've gottne into: Powers That Be is the first title. I've read some of Eric Flint's series, 1632, et al. As long as it is a good story I will read it.

Octavia Butler's Kindred is mindblowing. It tells the story of a bloack woman who has a psychic tie to an ancestor that calls her back to his time when his life is in danger. She saves his life but at great cost to her own peace of mind, until the next time, and the next time...Read it!

Mrs. Sherlock I have it on hold at the library. The library only owns one copy. I am the next person in line. I can't wait to read it.

I read a book a long time past that has stayed with me. The Second Conquest by Louis de Wohl This was a different book than he usually wrote. It was about a space trip. I tried to read it again a little while ago and had a hard time with it because it was so dated. But I wish I could because of the central theme. Has anyone read it? Looking for it at Amazon I find a copy they knew very little about was going for $99.

Never heard of it. Have you tried your library? I can't find it at my library, but bookfinder.com has several copies ranging in price from $45 on up. Alibris listed several titles under this author, suggesting stories with Roman Catholic themes.

My library has some books by Bujold, which I will have a look at. Nothing by Delindt. Is that the correct spelling of the name? It's an unusual one.

Babi

Whoops! I goofed. It is Charles De Lint. Good luck.

I thoroughly enjoyed Charles Stross' books; Family Trade is one of them. Glasshouse is an entirely different milieu. This is hard core science fiction: a 27th century society which is experimenting with the 1st dark age (1950 - 2040) by immersing "volunteers" into a simulacrum of that age. People are divided into 10-person cohorts and various elements of their lives are scored as they try to recreate lost history. An example: women are scored when they dress fashionably but fashion changes every week or so forcing them to shop incessantly of lose points for their cohort and prompting derision from the other cohorts. Our hero has been given a woman's body and must pair up with one of the men in his/her cohort since the basic social unit is termed a nuclear family consisting of husband and wife. I'm not sure if I like this book, but I'm not yet ready to pull the plug. I'll probably finish it.

Thanks, Mrs. Sherlock. I'll check that name. I picked up a Bujold today, the "Mirror Dance". The library only has three Bujold books, so I can't 'start at the beginning'. I'll just treat it like a free-standing story for now.

Babi

Her stories are somewhat freestanding. It is a tapestry they weave, but each can stand alone. If you have any questions about it, please ask here. Several of us have read her books, I believe.

There is a lot of reference in "Mirror Dance" to previous history, which always leaves me wondering what I've missed. But when an author writes an extensive series, it's very hard to find all of them, much less in chronological order.

My older daughter has two De Lint books, which I will be borrowing from her later. Now that she has moved back down here and is close at hand, I will probably be reading a lot of her Sci/Fi-Fantasy books. She has shelves full. She is just getting unpacked and settled in, so that's where I've been today. So wonderful to have her near again.

Babi

Babi,I know what you mean about having your children close by. Sounds as if you and your daughter have a good relationship. Enjoy.

Paladin of Souls, by Lois McMaster Bujold, continues the exciting story of the royal family of Chalion and its battles with coniving neighbors. Ista, mother of the ruling Royess, sets off on a pilgramage disguised as a mousy little gentlewoman but is soon caught up in the stealthy invasion of the dastardly northern kingdom seeking to divide Chalion and thereby conquer it and its riches and overthrow its heretical quintarian worship of the five gods (Father, Mother, Son, Daughter and Bastard). There's lots of acton, swords flashing, desparate chases by horseback, and always the swirling melange of political intrigue. As always, when I finish one of McMaster's books, I hunger for more. She writes SOOO SLOWLY!

Shucks, my library has only three Bujolds, all from the Barrayaran series,..and not consecutive ones at that. Is the Chalion series a new one, Mrs. Sherlock? If so, I might have a chance to start at the beginning on that one.

Babi

Yes, Curse is the first, Palladin the second and the third is something about Hunt. Don't read the second without the first. The groundwork for the religion is laid in the first one, but the third one could be read as a stand alont. The Vor books are not exactly sequential, but I suggest you go to this web site to learn more about her Miles Vorkosigan series: http://www.dendarii.com/; another interesting site is: http://www.scifi.demon.co.uk/bujold1.htm#top. Apparently she has a new series starting in October 2006. I have read many of her books more than once and will continue to reread them. She is that good.

My favorite "Fantastic Fiction" website has all the Vorkosigan books listed in order of publication. They're just not all available to me. I'm reading what I can of them, but I want to try and read the new series from the beginning.

Babi

What about an author named Barbara Hambly? I like her mysteries. She also writes Science Fiction. I haven't read any of the Science Fiction.

According to my 'Fantastic Fiction' site Hambly has written a lot of books. I'm surprised I haven't come across her before. I'd also be interested in hearing from someone who's read her books, HATS.

Babi

I've read Hambly's books about New Orleans. I don't remember reading any SF. She's a good writer, tells good stories.

I have started the New Orleans series. I am enjoying this first one. I am picking up "Kindred" from the library this Saturday. Our library owns one copy. I have been waiting for the Kindred's return.

I read the New Orleans ones, but she also did a witch series in sci fi.. A good writer indeed.

Charles Stross is back with another book about the world walkers. This one, Hidden Families, has our girl Miriam searching for the origin of the killers who tried to assasinate her. She finds World 3 and sets out to set herself up as a wealthy widow. What was it Churchill said about Russia? A puzzle wrapped up in an enigma, etc.?

Miriam must indeed be wealthy if she is able to do as she pleases in this fashion. Ah, isn't fiction wonderful?

Babi

Miriam has the wealth of the Merchant Princes on World 2. She has a platinum card with $1M. Yes, what couldn't we all do with that kind of juice? If you like to see a woman dynamo in action, Miriam is it.

I'll cheerfully dispense with the wealth of the Merchant Princes. Just let me have a $1M line of credit. I'll manage nicely with that, thank you!

Babi

I picked up "Kindred" by Octavia Butler from the library yesterday. It is just wonderful. It is hard to stop reading. Thanks for all the recommendations.

You won't even want to go to sleep, when you hold one of Butler's books in your hands

I know! It's beside me now. I can't wait to get back to it. Wonderful. In my library "Kindred" is listed under Fiction not Science Fiction. How is it categorized in other libraries?

Butler's books are SF in the Salem Library. I just picked up a trilogy, can't remember the name, lots of gooood reading ahead.

Elizabeth Moon's series about the vast Vatta shipping empire's downfall continues with Marque and Reprisal. Ky Vatta has a tiny fleet of two ships and tries to get organized to battle the pirates preying on shipping. Space Opera with a woman in the Han Solo role! Great fun.

I'm a relatively new member her on SeniorNet and just started looking around some more today. (Nice to see you here Hats.)My husband and I are both big science fiction/fantasy fans and have a pretty large collection of mostly older sci-fi. And I should also mention that I'm an avid advocate for BookCrossing.com (I'm LyekkaMarengo and SCOBCZ over there) I've also just found thelibrarything.com and started listing our permanent collection of sci-fi there.

The header asked how we found sci-fi, well, I think it was 3 or 4th grade when I found a book called "Star Girl" (not the modern one by Larry Spinella) or maybe I have the title wrong but anyway it was a standard alien gets stuck here kind of story but I loved it. Then the next one I remember was "The Forgotten Door" which I still have a copy of. Those got me started. Also when I was first in college back in the early 70"s sci-fi was all the rage. I actually had an English teacher that read us Kurt Vonnegut one day when she didn't feel like teaching. So my old time favorites are Vonnegut, Heinlein, Silverberg, Harry Harrison, Jack Chalker and the more current batch are Neil Gaiman, some of Ann Rice, Diane Duane, Dianna Wynne Jones and yes, J.K. Rowlings. Plus I've greatly expanding my range into tradition literature, biography, non-fiction etc, etc.

I also have read Butler's Kindred and found it very compelling and thought producing, as well as very disturbing and emotional.

That's about it for now I guess.

Susan Currently reading: The Reading Group by Elizabeth Noble and Bless Me Ultima by Rudolfo A. Anaya

Welcome Lyekka! Is BookCrossing a book exchange system? I wish I could find something like that around here.

I would not do that with my sci-fi books, I have over 250 of them and they are for keep. Most are old and out of print. I have to find new authors. Butler is of course very challenging in thoughts and can provoke heated discussions. Bubble

Glad to meet you, Susan. You've mentioned some names that are new to me in the 'current batch'. I'm always looking for good SciFi authors. My biggest complaint is that my library seldom has all of a series, and I'm left with annoying gaps in my favorites.

I've been reading Bujold lately; she is fun and an excellent writer. Also the Sharon Lee/Steve Miller team; loved those. Oddly, these writers shun the traditional 'hero' model, and present memorable leading men who are short and small. I was forced to acknowledge the prejudices and bias of my former expectations.

Babi

Hi LyekkaMarengo

Glad you are here. I am a beginner in Sci Fi and Fantasy. I did very much enjoy Kindred by Octavia Butler. What a book!! Have any of you heard of Neil Gaiman? I checked a book out of the library by him. It's called "Stardust." I think it's fantasy, not sure.

Welcome, Lyekka! How exciting to see so many posts here! SF is my first love; mysteries are the old dependable but nothing sparks my imagination like SF. Babi, I, too, expect my male heroes to be tall! But I'm partial to leading women now. Sherri S Tepper writes about women; her Gate to Women's Country is a thriller. So too does Connie Willis. See The Doomsday Book. Bujold's new series has a strong woman. This woman thing started when I saw someone reading a David Weber book about Honor Harrington. Now there is a woman to thrill you. These are truly space operas and I can't wait for another one. Just put Stardust by Neil Gaiman on reserve. Thanks.

I might like Neil Gaiman. "Stardust" is like reading a fairy tale. Is that how I am suppose to think of Neil Gaiman's writing? I would like to give an example here. I hope it is alright.

"...festooned with flowers: bluebells and foxgloves and harebells and daffodils....Each flower was made of glass or crystal, spun or carved....and they chimed and jingled like distant glass bells."

Aren't the words beautiful???

How evocative that is, Hats. I think I'd like to read that too...

Hats: I'm more eagerly anticipating the book than before. Thanks.

I am glad. Both of you will help me better understand any underlying meanings in the book. Already, I see one. Will wait to hear what you think.

Stardust sounds quite lovely.. Will put it on my look for list.

Got Stardust started. Also finished S M Stirling's Island in the Sea of Time. Nantucket Island is plucked from this time and arrives at 1350 BC. Oh, boy! What a ride! Unfortunately, my library does ot have the two following books.

I will have to look for that one.

I looked at him S.M. Stirling books at my library. The library didn't own The Island in the Sea of Time. The other ones look very advanced. Remember, this is a new genre for me.

I am enjoying Stardust.

Hats: These are not about rocket science. Mostly about people, how they meet their problems, how their characters develop, some stuff about military tactics when there is a battle, some stuff about sailing ships; I usually kind of skip over those parts.

Oh, that sounds good.

Mrs. Sherlock, I am enjoying the new experience.

Space Opera.. I loved Honor Harrington.. Dana Stabenow who writes about Alaska and mysteries now started out with two wonderful science fiction space opera types.. Anne McCaffrey has a small series cowritten that is really a space opera.. I loved James Schmitz.. he does a really really funny space opera.

which of McCaffrey do you mean?

An interesting site for Science-Fiction Fans:

http://scifipedia.scifi.com/index.php/Main_Page

Bubble: Verry Interesting! Thanks. What are you reading these days? I'm concluding the David Weber/John RIngo series with We Few. so far they've encountered skuduggery, corruption, inimical wildlife, hostile enviornment, and they keep going! However, the question is, will they make it back home? Stay tuned.

Not reading much SF these days, of late I can't affort the high prices ($13-16 a book!) although I would love to read more of Robert Sawyers after the Neanderthal serie that I enjoyed very much.

I received two Jody Picoult and started "Keeping Faith". After chapter 2 and I am totally hooked!

Bubble: Is there no library you can use? I quit buying books when I retired. I can reserve books online, library emails me when they're ready, once a week I go in and load up.

Bubble, thank you for the website.

Many book places are not accessible with a wheelchair, nor can I find parking near by. Life is not simple!

We don't work online yet. I manage a French library here, but none of our readers is interested in SF, so that it is not included in the budget. Most of our "new" books are donations and what I buy has to be according to the majority of readers tastes and as much as possible French authors.

I have been reading my way happily through Lois McMaster Bujold's books. She is a great writer; even McCaffrey says so! I'm glad she is still writing, as there are only a few of her output to date left for me to read. Then I will have to wait, impatiently, for each new one.

Babi

Babi: Isn't she great? Her newer stuff is more fantasy, but she still has that deft touch with political and emotional elements. Have you ever read Connie Willis?

Bubble: Do SF books ever get listed on the Book Exchange? If not, I can probably find some and list them. Name some authors you like, I have too many books and must cut back.

Connie Willis? Seems I've heard the name before,...probably here..., but I don't think I've read anything of hers. Remind me again when I run out of Bujold, hmmm?

Babi

You tell me when; I'll tell you what.

Mrs. Sherlock, I should have mentioned "Children of Men" here, not in the Book Nook. I haven't read this book. It's titled "Children of Men" by P.D. James. I just thought the title sounded very interesting. Someone posted that it's a very good book. Maybe Stephanie???? I felt very happy to know it's a good title. I bet some of you have read it.

I liked Children of Men very much. REad it quite a while ago. It was sort of a digression for P.D. James, but a good one. She mostly does psychological stuff.

I read 'Children of Men', because it was written by P.D. James. Personally, I didn't care much for it. I found it depressing. But that's just my take, HATS. Stephanie liked it; you may, too.

Babi

Babi, thanks for sharing your opinion.

There is another english writer female, who does feminist things and also did a future type book. Very depressing, but interesting. Cannot remember who, but know it will pop out probably about 2 in the morning..Let you know when I think of it.

Have any of you read "The Sparrow" by Mary Doria Russell? I have always seen and heard the title. I haven't read it. I might not understand what's going on in the story. The title attracts me.

Has anyone read Mary Brown. She writes simply fantasy's.. I read a small series of hers years ago and liked them. They are quest type with a young girl and accompanying animals.

Bubble have you checked to see if your local library has a homebound program that delivers books?

Another really great option I use a lot is to download books on the internet. It is possible to read books on a computer screen or a handheld unit. The first time I tried to read a book on my pda, (palm pilot), I thought there is no way I can read on that little screen. But, I gave it a try and found I could adjust the background and the size of the font and really liked it. Now I do 90% of my reading with the little device.

I love the Lois McMaster Bujold series with Miles VorKosigan. I read them all on my handheld. Fictionwise has them.

Bookjunky, you must be in US... we have no such facilities here, nor inter-library exchange. Maybe in another 10 or 20 years...

Yes I have tried downloading books in my palm device and have read or re-read some fine classics from the Gutenberg site. I used it when I travel. I have not found any free downloads for SF. I would need an international credit card for most of the sites I've seen. Even PayPal will not accept our local card. I much prefer holding a book in my hand... maybe with time I could get used to the palm if I had some good tales.

I'll find a solution when it becomes crucial. lol Thanks for the suggestions though. Bubble

Been re-reading the Ship books by Anne McCaffrey et al. Good clean fun.

all of McCaffrey books are a delight to read and reread again and again.

Would you accept/enjoy being a brain in such ship? As an alternative to a vegetative state?

In The Ship Who Searched the child was seven-years-old when she became a brain. And the alternative for her was a lifetime spent with conscious movement only of her head. And no promise of even that condition lasting. That was extremely heart rending. With infants there is no question they are better off as brains. I always thought I would prefer death to paralysis until I worked in a social agency which promoted independent living for those born with handicaps and those whose condition had occurred through other conditions: one was a para, resulting from a parachute jump that went wrong; another was a para who had been injured playing football on his highschool team. So I learned that life can be lived and enjoyed in many ways. Would I be able to become a brain? "Maybe" is the best I can answer.

Thanks for your honesty Mrs Sherlock. I had polio at age two, affecting my whole body except my head and one arm. I "recuperate" the use of the other arm but learned to barely stand only at age 7 and then with lots of surgeries etc, managed to walk and became independent. Now I battle anew with post-polio.

About the ship who searched, I thought, from my experience that it is easier for a young child than when an adult become a para and has vivid memories of another life. Accepting that new reality is not easy and for some it is apparently impossible.

In The ships.. I think that children probably adapted better than others. I think I would or could have done that when I was younger. The sadness in The Ship who Sang starts up the tears every single time I read it. I gave a copy to one of my daughter in laws who has a father who opted out of being one. She has always had an inner sadness at holidays at her husbands father who is everpresent and adores his sons and her absent one. I told her that this one always reminded me of my fathers early death and my grief at losing him. She told me later this year that the book had affected her greatly and she reads it over and over.. Anne McCaffrey wrote a powerful book about unspoken grief.

Isn't it one of the greatest thing about truly fine authors, that they can write the words that expand our horizons and touch our lives? I couldn't begin to estimate how much of my thinking and my beliefs, who I am, has been influenced by the books I read.

Babi

Very true BaBi. Books saved me from loneliness and despair during long stays in hospitals and before I found the outlet of internet.

I agree/ After marrying, we lived in a variety of places. I am not knocking it. We have had a great adventuresome life, but I did grow up in one spot and went to school for 12 years with my neighbors, etc. So,, I am somewhat shy and simply never got the hang of adult friends to any big degree.. Hence books for my life..and now the internet.

I have just finished moving more one-hundred boxes of books for the last time. I am so tired of moving them from one place to another (I've had three addresses in the past year!) so will be listing some SF on the book exchange.

How does that work MrsSherlock, when outside USA ???

I'll find out and get back to you.

Bubble: USPS has a website with international postage rates. Where in the world are you?

Didn't you click on my name? lol I live in Israel.

I hope posting does not mean FedEx. I have had the most terrible experience with them: books sent though them were heavily taxed for duty while others sent postal by Barnes and Nobel required no further pay. Go figure...

The exact postage for a PB book is too confusing for me to figure out. I will send you one to see how it works. Later today I will have a list of authors & titles so you can choose. Do you have preferences? If so i'll try to find one of them for this experiment. It won't be FedEx. It will be economical which means it will take longer to arrive.

Do you have any Robert Sawyer? Lois McMaster Bujold I haven't read that I remember...

You asked what I like. here is my SF collection:

http://www.librarything.com/catalog.php?view=so_P_bubble

http://www.librarything.com/catalog.php?view=Frogett

So by all means, let's try it. I'll find a way to reimburse you. Do you usually use those enveloppes with air bubbles?

STEPHANIE, I can top that scenario. For the first thirty years of my life I never lived more than two years in one place. I would meet people other kids, get to know them, then move away and never see them again. The only people with whom I had long-term ties were family. Needless to say, I also grew up without really learning how to make and maintain friendships. If it weren't for one or two out-going friends who made the effort to keep the relationship alive, I would have none outside my family. I'm very grateful for those forgiving friends, needless to say.

Babi

Bubble: Those envelopes sound like an easy way to do it, but I"ll check out all the different costs and let you know. More later, Jackie

Anyone heard or read this?

http://distantcousin.net/

New to me, BUBBLE. If you read them, let us know what you think of them.

Babi

Looks interesting. Let us know if you read it.

I am not reading them: I could not find them locally and here noone heard about it.

I found that link in a newsletter. I was hoping someone had read it.

My library doesn't have it.

It may be a self-promotional thing, BUBBLE. Someone trying to sell his books. He has my sympathy, but not necessariy my readership.

Babi

It might very well be... who knows.

I have read the Tales of the Otori series (except for the fourth book), Robert Jordan Wheel of Time (which is getting too long - he needs to quit!), Memory Sorry and Thorn series by Tad Williams, Kushiel series (the first three), CS Lewis (who hasn't), and some of the standards like Anne McCaffrey....

Anyway, what would be a good book to jump to? I don't want to read anything in the Dragonlance or a series that is fifteen gazillion books.

By the way, how many other females (like me) are out there reading fantasy and some sci-fi? And play RPG (Oblivion!!)?

I have read 3 of that series. I didn't know there was one after the 3rd one, Brilliance of the Moon. What is the title of the fourth one?

I have read a couple of the Robert Jordan, Wheel of Time series, but didn't continue. I guess I lost interest in his writings.

I'm back to mystery most recently.

Fish, try the Neanderthal Trilogy by Robert Sawyers.

Try another trilogy" The Gatti's Tale" by G. Greeno. This is more fantasy than sci-fi.

Try H. Harrison's trilogy: West of Eden, Winter in Eden, Return to Eden. I think they are brilliant!

If you liked McCaffrey, try Zenna Henderson. She wrote a few stories titled The People. Now they have all been reprinted togeter as "Ingathering - The complete People stories. They are tender, compelling and totally enjoyable, especially if you like books about young adolescents or children.

Welcome, Fishbowls. Shirley Rousseau Murphy wrote a great fantasy book, The Catswold Portal, in addition to her mystery series featuring Joe Gray, the talking cat. Robin Hobb has a series, The Liveship Traders, as well as two other series. Charles De Lint writes about contemporary urban scenes featuring characters such as The Crow Sisters, very young silly girls who love sweets and are/are not really crows part of the time. Strong ties to Native American myths. Lois McMasters Bujold has switched from her Miles Vorkosigan For universe to the Curse of Chalion fantasy series. If you liike alternate history Eric Flint has a series beginning with 1632, the year that a chunk of present-day America is plunked down into the Europe of 1632. I could go on and on. Never did RPGs but have read lots of SF and fantasy.

Fishbowls.. Try Terry Pratchett. His is pure fantasy and comedy combined. I especially like the ones that have death or the witches as character.. Very very funny indeed.

I was delighted to find a new Anne/Todd McCaffrey book at the library. Unfortunately, it is disappointing me. I'm finding the plot weak, the characters barely sketched. I hate finding a book like this from a talent like McCaffrey. I suspect she was not doing much of the writing herself, and despite the publishers' promotion, I don't think son Todd is her equal.

Bujold has another series starting also, Mrs.Sherlock. 'Beguilement' I think it is called. The first book just came out, "The Sharing Knife"; the next is scheduled for June or July. This initial book is primarily establishing the lead characters, the world and its customs, and the nature of the evil. I can see the Bujold mark in it, tho', and I'm looking forward to the next book.

Babi

BaBi, which MaCaffrey was that? so I'll avoid it! lol I think that Todd will improve with time, he is learning...

SF by K.W. Hogan. If you want to know why you are really here on Earth and how we came to be here, this is the book for you. There are twelve indisputable facts woven into the fiction book and when you are finished you will think about what we have been taught and what we really know. Go to www.veritasnovel.com and look. It is the logical alternative to evolution and divine creation. The good thing is, all the facts you can look up for yourself to see if they are true. All you need is the Internet, and a Bible wouldn't hurt. I would like to see what the rest of you think. It is on Amazon.com with a 5 star rating.

And who are you, K.W. Hogan? Your profile is rather dry...

Hogan sounds like someone advertising their own book, which is not allowed except in the authors section.. I too think that Anne is letting her son Todd write entirely too much of the new ones. I dont like them at all. Missing Annes gentle sure touch for sure.

Todd's books are more action driven. When I finish one I do not have the same feeling of satisfaction that Anne's books leave me with. That's why I can read them over and over. Acts are finite while interactions are variable. I can't quite put ot into words but there is something I am struggling to define which explains why I read more books by women than I used to. Granted there are more women writing books.

BUBBLE, AND MRS. SHERLOCK, I can at least report that I am now 1/3 of the way thru' the book and it has improved. The section I'm in now seems more like Anne McCaffrey. I am enjoying it enough now to continue with it, Bubble, so you might want to read it and form your own opinion. The Book is "Dragon's Fire".

Babi

I read "Dragon's Kin" and "Pegasus in Space" with Todd

Sorry to take so long to respond. The fourth book is titled The Harsh Cry of the Heron. See: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9781594489235&itm=2

Thank you for all of the titles. I copied/pasted the titles into Word and will start working on the list.

Thanks, fishbowls, for the link. I'll put it on my want list.

Thanks, fishbowls. I'll put it on my list.

I have "Harsh Cry of The Heron" sitting in the other room now waiting to be read. I was surprised to find it at the library last week, as I wasn't expecting another book in the series.

"Dragon Fire" is irritating me again. It was easy to tell when I moved from the 'good' section back to a poor one. There is a lack of continuity, for one thing. One character is now seen as doing something(?) which he was not doing for the first 2/3 of the book. And a description from a Gather featuring dragon & rider competitions is repeated from early in the book, word for word! Did they think we wouldn't notice such an obvious copy-and-paste? I get the feeling this book was not given the editorial overview it needed, or even a sufficiently close partnership between the two authors.

I'm going to finish it now, if only because the lead character disappeared and was apparently killed; nothing has been heard from him for at least half a Turn. (Pern readers will know what that means.) I can't believe he has actually been 'killed off', but it is definitely time we got back to what did happen to him.

I'm thinking of filing a complaint! (

Babi

Babi: Why don't you? My daughter, a rabid fan of Stargate1, writes what they call Fanfic and "Publishes" it online at a fan site. She loves/needs feedback from her readers and they aren't paying her for her work! The McCaffrey writing team should be alert for fan feedback since they have received so much support from fans both in book sales and in utilizing fans ideas.

Good thought, Mrs. Sherlock. Can I find the site by looking up "Fanfic"? I was also considering locating a McCaffery site, or maybe the publisher.

Babi

McCaffrey has her own official site, and also has fan sites telling about new books to appear

http://mccaffrey.srellim.org/links.htm

http://www.annemccaffrey.net/index.php

and of course McCaffrey's publisher's websites

If you want to access the SG1 fan site, I'll get the URL from my daughter. It is quite a close community, though geographically widespread. They have met at cons and had so much fun. THey talk several times a day. One thing, they are fascinated with Michael Shanks. And these are not kids but women with adult children ofr their own and grandchildren even.

Thanks for the links, BUBBLE. I added the first one to my favorites list, so I can go back there and explore more leisurely. Annd McCaffery's personal site is so pleasant and personal, I don't think I would want to criticize there. It would be like visiting someone's house and being rude.

Michael Shanks? Who's he? If your daughters group is fascinated by him, I ought to know about him, right, MRS. SHERLOCK? Yes, I would like their URL, and I'm going to check my personal favorite sci/fi link for more on Shanks. Thanks for the info.

Babi

Babi: Here's the URL for the SG1 site. Let me know if you have any questions. http://forums.delphiforums.com/ourstargate

Wow, that's a busy sie, Mrs. Sherlock. My daughter watches old Stargate show, but we don't have cable so cannot follow the SCIFI channel.

For some reason, once in there I could not go back into SN as we usually can from links. I had to close the Stargate site, and re-enter SN.

Babi

Here is a comment about Terry Pratchett that I put on the Book Nook.

I think Terry Pratchett is the funniest author I've come across in years, but you have to like fantasy and be willing to put up with mild crudity. He has the sense of timing that is so important to humorists, and he also has the ability to use the same joke over and over, and yet make it funny again each time. If you like him, you are in luck, because he has written a lot of books. My favorite is "Men at Arms" although "Guards, Guards" precedes it and it makes more sense to read it first--it's also a favorite. "Maskerade" is next, and after that a bunch of others. Among recent books, "Monstrous Regiment" was very good, and "Going Postal" was hopeless.

I am reading the fourth, and apparently final, book of the Otori series, by Lian Hearn. These have been exceptionally good books, strong on characters, texture, setting, excitement and drama. These are people I will remember.

Babi

Good news on the Otori series. I've read the first 3; They are hard to find in my libraries.

What was the title? Heaven’s Net is Wide or The Harsh Cry of the Heron>

From B&N site:

Grass for His Pillow Episode: Lord Fujiwara's Treasures (Tales of the Otori #2, Episode 1)
Lian Hearn
The Way through the Snow (Tales of the Otori #1, Episode 2)
Lian Hearn
Brilliance of the Moon: Scars of Victory, Episode 2
Lian Hearn
Brilliance of the Moon: Battle for Maruyama, Episode 1
Lian Hearn
Across the Nightingale Floor (Tales of the Otori Series, Epsiode 2)
Lian Hearn
Across the Nightingale Floor (Tales of the Otori Series #1, Episode 1)
Lian Hearn

The Barnes & Noble Review "The Harsh Cry of the Heron -- the much-anticipated conclusion to the bestselling Tales of the Otori saga (Across the Nightingale Floor, Grass for His Pillow, and Brilliance of the Moon) -- brings to a close Lian Hearn's epic fantasy chronicle of a feudal Japan replete with murder, myth, martial arts, and magic. "

"fans will be heartened to know that this "Last Tale" will be followed in 2007 by a prequel. (Sept.) "Copyright 2006 Reed Business Information.

My name has come up on the library reserve list for this book. I'm eager to begin it. I've been reading a series about post-nuclear California by Kim Stanely Robinson. Interesting premise: 2000 nuclear, low radiation, bombs go off simultaneously in the US, destroying the infrastructure. The story picks up 60 years later in a small coastal fishing village, very interesting social structure. One day two men arrive saying they have come from San Diego on the train! Apple-and-snake time, folks. Stay tuned.

I will look for the Kim Stanley Robinson book. I like the premise and love to read survivor type sci fi.. What if is always interesting.

I see BUBBLE has answered your question, PAT. "Harsh Cry of the Heron" is the last in the Otori series.

Anne McCaffrey has finally written the book that tells us what happens after that amazing feat of shifting the orbit of the red star. "The Skies of Pern" is supposed to answer the question: "What will dragons and riders do in a future without thread?" I will be finding out as soon as I finish the Otori book.

Babi

Bubble, I just read the messages in this Section today. I have just recently rejoined SN and am working my way through sections that interest me. I notced a while back you were looking for sources of books to download. One that I check frequently is "The On Line Books Page". It is sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania. There books are all free and can be downloaded or read online. If you haven't seen this page run a websearch for the name. The books are all free. My favorite authors are Marion Zimmer Bradley, Andre Norton and Isaac Asimov. Cheers. Ray.

Thanks so much Ray, I never heard of that site. (if you click on my name you can see a profile)

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/search.html

Your mention of Zimmer Bradley made me rush there. I found it easily as well as this title:

The Door Through Space (New York: Ace Books, c1961) (page images at durendal.org)

Unfortunately I haven't found how to download and save the text on my puter. I'll have to work on that and also how to change their fonts.

Thanks again! Bubble

Hi All, In reading the previous posts, I noticed only a passing reference to Andre Norto as the author of the 'Witch World' series. While she wrote quite a few books in that series, she also wrote several other series, including 'The Time Traders', 'The Solar Queen', and 'Beast Master'. She also wrote many stand alone books and several two and three book series. She also did some Gothic stories. Just thought I would mention this. I have enjoyed reading the discussions in this folder. Ray.

Andre Norton is kind of a figure out of my past, since my father knew her, and I think I even met her once at a sci fi convention. I didn't realize she had only recently passed away until your post, raycleve, led me to check. She wrote a huge number of books, and I've liked all of them that I've read. Some of them can be briefly summed up as: a human, mostly a young boy, learning how to talk to cats (or other non-humans) in order to solve his problems. I've liked everything of hers that I've read.

I've always like her writing, too. Haven't read any for years. I quit reading her when other authors' names began to appear.

I started to read Plague Ship by Norton last night. I never read her before but this story sounds so familiar... Did anyone else write about a scented planet?

Andre Norton ( not her real name) lived in Winter Park, Florida for many years. Never met her, but we lived there as well and I know she was a big devotee of the library. I have read mostly her witch world, but know she wrote an enormous amount of science fiction.

There has been a brief sci-fi/fantasy discussionin the Book nook starting with post 436 and ending, so far, with post 448, (with gaps) centered on Janet Asimov.

Thanks, Pat. I didn't know that she was a writer, too. Nere's a link to a list of her publications:

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/janet-asimov/

Hi, I have been lurking for awhile - following your interesting discussion about Andre Norton and Janet Asimov. Thought I would start jumping in. I just discovered a site devoted to readers who wish to trade science fiction and fantasy books. Thought I would pass it along:

http://www.sf-books.com

I have already exchanged several books there and received some good ones in exchange - ones I would not ordinarily have thought or reading.

I think I've met you in one of the other forums, GLENCORA. Did you know there is a book exchange site on SeniorNet also? Click on the 'Books Main Page' in the heading, then scroll down 'til you find it. Mucho books on offer, for only the cost of postage.

Babi

Another resource which was mentioned by Stephanie is listed below. Seems to work lik the SF exchange. I'm going to try them both as I have way, way too many books!

PaperBackBook.com

BaBi and MrsSherlock - thanks for the resource information. The SeniorNet book exchange looks great - I can't believe I didn't notice it before. I have already emailed a request for a book. The main advantage of sf-books.com is that all the books are science fiction or fantasy - which makes for interesting browsing.

I just recently discovered a scifi writer named Jack McDevitt - I had never heard of him before but am currently reading my second book by him "Seeker." He writes a good story - sort of combines the science fiction with the mystery genre.

I had forgotten McDivitt. Read two of his and loved them.

He is a good writer. I'll put him back on my list.

Oh, goody! I just checked in at the sci-fi GLENCORA recommended, and learned that Terry Pratchett has a new book out! Love that man. The new book is "Where's My Cow?" I must let my library know I want that one.

Babi

I'm a longtime Andre Norton fan and often re-read her books, especially the Witch World and Beast Master series.

Terry Pratchett is another favorite of mine. I have "Wintersmith" on hand and am looking forward to reading it.

Is anyone here a fan of Mercedes Lackey? I just finished her latest, "Fortune's Fool," a very enjoyable, humorous fairy-tale fantasy/romance.

I never heard of Mercedes Lackey, but if you like Terry Pratchett and Andre Norton, I think I would like what you do. I think Terry Pratchett is the funniest author I've come across in years.

joegreyfan - I enjoy Mercedes Lackey, particularly the books in her Valdemar Series. I recently read The Last Herald-Mage Trilogy(Magic's Pawn, Magic's Promise, and Magic's Price) which takes place in her Valdemar world - the characters and stories were very involving. I also read a stand-alone book by her from the Valdemar Series - called "By the Sword, Kerowyn's Tale".

In case you are not aware of it - she has a good webpage with her books listed: www.mercedeslackey.com.

I like Mercedes as well. She is interesting and has written a wide variety of sci-fi..

Lackey's Valdemar series kept my attention all the way through. I loved the Owl series. Checking her on Fantastic Fiction (website) I see that there is a new Elemental Masters book due in October. Oh, joy.

JOEGREYFAN, I found my library has the new "Wintersmith" by Pratchett, in the Young Adult section. I discovered that there are at least a half-dozen titles by him for the YA's, that I knew nothing about. I've read some fine books classified as YA, and Terry Pratchett would certainly fall into that category.

Babi

I think that Pratchett writes funny funny books.. ya or adult.. who cares.

Has anyone read the Chris Csejthe series by Mark Simmons? Lackey's website at Fantastic lists his series as one of her favorites. Starting with One Foot in the Grave his fiction: ". . . manages to combine enough wacky hilarity to satisfy a Terry Pratchett fan, and a plethora of puns guaranteed to make a Piers Anthony buff groan. . . . Mark might even have created himself a new genre-cybercafe."

MRS. SHERLOCK, sounds interesting, but I just did a quick check of my library's catalog and they don't have him. Darn. However, I have a couple other libraries in reach. I'll look some more.

BAbi

BaBi: Neither does mine! The description makes his work very tempting, doesn't it?

I'd wonder if he's an old-timer, if I hadn't seen the dates on his books. Oh, well, maybe he's just beginning to be well known, and he'll start turning up in our respective libraries soon.

Babi

I just reserved the One Foot in the Grave from my library. I looked by the title and found his name is Wm. Mark Simmons.

I think I may have seen a William Simmons in the list I pulled up from the library. I'll have another look. Thanks, GinnyAnn. .

Babi

ps. I found a 'William' Simmons, but I don't think it's the same guy. Maybe...

Neither version of his name is listed in my library database. Nor is the title of the book. The review I read calls him "Mark". Oh, well.

The first link takes you to One Foot in the Grave

http://www.sff.net/people/wm.mark.simmons/One%20Foot%20In%20The%20Grave.htm

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/s/william-mark-simmons/

http://www.sff.net/people/wm.mark.simmons/

http://www.baen.com/author_catalog.asp?author=wmsimmons

GinnyAnn, thanks for the links. I particularly like the list of ancillary services on Simmons' home page,including black holes filled, worms recanned, and plots thickened.

My library doesn't have his books either, but I think I'll have to try him.

MrsSherlock, I'm happy to hear that Mercedes Lackey's new Elemental Masters is due out in October (I love the title, "Reserved for the Cat"). The Valdemar books are my favorite of her series, and I also like her various books featuring Elves, including those co-authored by Rosemary Edghill and Roberta Gellis. I've just received "By Slanderous Tongues" and am looking forward to reading it.

There are so many Valdemar books! I love that series. Couldn't get enough of it. Elemental Masters is great; I'm eager to read the new one. Reserved for the Cat indeed.

Were you reading science fiction in the late 60's? Do you remember a writer named James Tiptree Jr? He was a recluse whom no one had ever seen but wrote knockout SF. Well, James Tiptree Jr was a woman named Alice Sheldon. His/her biography has just come out (no pun intended) and it is fascinating. Alii, as she was known, assumed a male persona for her writing for very complex psychological reasons. At the age of 6 Alii was tramping through unexplored (?) Africa with her parents, socialites from Chicago. Africans who had rarely if ever seen white men were enchanted by this blonde, blue-eyed little girl. Stay tuned...

I don't know if this is permitted - but I just finished The Light of Other Days by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter. If anyone would like to read it, I can drop it in the mail tomorrow. Just let me know.

Is it good? A Clarke is one big favorite of mine. I even have a puter game by him (Rama). I have 15 of his books but not that one.... Bubble

MrsSherlock, I am a fan of James Tiptree, Jr. I didn't know there was a biography out. I await the next installment eagerly.

It's easy to have 20/20 hindsight, since I knew she was a woman when I read her stories, but I can't really imagine "The Women Men Don't See" (short story) being written by a man.

However, I have a paperback of her short stories printed in 1975 with an introduction by Robert Silverberg explaining why it's absurd to think Tiptree could be a woman.

"I don't think the novels of Jane Austen could have been written by a man nor the stories of Ernest Hemingway by a woman, and in the same way I believe the author of the James Tiptree stories is male."

Yes, I remember The Women Men Don't See very well. The bio is titled James Tiptree, Jr: The Double Life of Alice B. Sheldon, by Julie Phillips. Phillips is a good writer, citing source materials such as letters, etc. She makes my heart ache for the poor little rich girl.

Oh me, I remember Tiptree and think I have read all of them, but I never suspected a woman. But I do know that female science fiction writers had a hard hard time way back.. Andre Norton was a woman, but used a male name..and several of the women used initials..Must look for the biography. Sounds interesting

I love the books by Sharon Lee and Steve Miller (husband and wife team). I find them hard to put down. I just got my hands on another one, and am progressing rapidly thru' it.

I probably did read some Tiptree books, but I don't really remember. I'll have to take a look at some and see if they are familiar.

Babi

Seems like I read many in Analog of F&SF, short stories. My library lists eight different titles. Her Smoke Rose Up Forever: The Great Years of James Tiptree, Jr., sounds like an anthology; it has 520 pages and was issued in 1990. By the time she was 15 she had been on safari three times, one trip lasted one year and circumnavigated the globe. (BTW, I read about this book in Bookmarks.)

Babi: Tell us more about the Lee/Miller books. That duo is new to me. What have you read?

I never heard of Lee/Miller either. Are they hard science fiction or more fantasy?

Yes, BaBi, tell us more.

Lee & Miller's Liaden series is "space opera," with adventure, romance, wonderfully subtle character development, humor, and lots of witty dialogue. The first three novels are contained in a large paperback titled "Partners in Necessity."

Fantastic Fiction has all the books listed: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/l/sharon-lee/

My library has a nice selection so I'm putting one on reserve. Looks like good reading.

Thank you, JOE & MRS. SHERLOCK. The Liaden series is all of the above and I've read every one of them. They have other books as well, and I am currently reading is non-Liaden..."The Tomorrow Log". That's not to say they may not develop a series from this one as well. It has references to past events that beg to be explored, as well as obvious capabilities for future development.

BUBBLE, the Lee/Miller books combine fantasy and sci-fi tech., but as joegrey writes, the character development is 'wonderful subtle'. I fell in love with the characters, and wish the books would never end.

Babi

Thanks. I'll see if I can find them here. It is always good to try and find new authors.

I recently read a sci-fi book that would amuse anyone who likes Tolkien-- "There and Back Again" by Pat Murphy. This is a re-telling of "The Hobbit" as science fiction. The Bilbo Baggins character lives on an asteroid in our solar system, which is a backwater in the galactic civilization, tending his figs and mining on other asteroids.

I don’t want to say too much about the book in order not to spoil it for anyone, but it’s a remarkable job. She has managed to find equivalents for about all of the people and events in the book, some of them quite ingenious. The Ring is in the form of a Mobius strip, and has different but appropriate powers from those in Tolkien.

It’s a light-hearted thing, told simply, as is "The Hobbit". I’m not sure what someone who hadn’t read "The Hobbit" would make of it. It stands on its own as a decent Space Opera, but there is a lot of fun in seeing how closely it matches the original.

It’s out of print, but used copies are available for a few dollars.

You sold me! I've got it on reserve now.

Back when the Trilogy of the Rings was popular, I remember my wife getting me a book entitled "Bored of the Rings." I read part of it, but I don't remember that it was clever enough to hold my interest. Did any of you happen to read it? Cheers. Ray.

Ray, I never heard of "Bored of the Rings", but I see that Amazon has it, and the excerpt I read didn't hold my interest either. Were/are you a Tolkien fan, or are you also bored of the Rings?

My son has it and loves to read it again and again.

I want to thank the person who recommended Wm. Mark Simmons. His One Foot in the Grave is a fun read.

I'll see if my library has Pat Murphy. I remember the rec. for Wm. Mark Simmons, but I don't remember what I found. Possibly just postponed it 'til I had fewer books to read already.

Babu

My library doesn't have Simmons; I think I'll buy the first one. It was Mrs. Sherlock who first mentioned him.

I read and enjoyed all of the Ring Series. I haven't read anything else of Tolkien. Cheers. Ray.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070412/ap_on_re_us/obit_vonnegut_23

There are some comments about Kurt Vonnegut's death and his books in the Book Nook.

I'm reading Pat Murphy's "The City Not Long After". It's hard to describe, very different. There are some fantasy and/or supernatural elements, but... The 'City' is San Franciso, and the setting is a world decimated by global plague, so that only a few people survived. The book is about these people, and how they live their new lives. After what they have been through, they are all somewhat crazy, and one is seldom quite sure whether what they see is real or their own delusions/hallucinations. But they are basically friendly and kind, and you like them. Intriguing book. May be a bit slow getting into it, but I recommend it.

Babi

I really liked Murphy's book. There is something about post-apocolypse books which attracts me. Perhaps it is the spirit of the survivors who seek to triumph over the limitations imposed by the collapse of their world. Hope for us all I guess.

The Murphy book is interesting. Must look for it. I love books about what if and the afters..All time favorite of the type is Pat Franks.. many many years ago.

I really must praise Jim Butcher's 'Dresden Files' series. I am reading "White Night" now, and it is a good idea to read these in order as there are on-going relationships and character development.

Butcher writes books with action, excitement, wry humor, and yes, quite a bit of ghouls and gore. Fortunately, one can always take ghouls, vampires, et al with a grain of salt. Besides the one-liners that make me laugh, tho', there are also quiet, thoughtful probes into deeper subjects. These are presented with a clarity and insight that inspires one to think, 'Oh, yes. That's exactly right. I've been there.

Babi

Babi: You've sold me. Thanks.

BaBi~ Have you seen the Sci/Fi channels Dresden Files? It is between (I hope) seasons. I fell in love with thepogram and hope that the execs at Sci/Fi pick it up and order more into production. Here is a link to the shows webpage at Sc/Fi.com

http://www.scifi.com/dresden/

I wish, Ginnyann. I do not have cable, but as the standard channels are presenting fewer and fewer new shows each season, I may be tempted to take the plunge. The SciFi channel is definitely one I would like to have. Babi

Thanks, BaBi, and also joegreyfan, for recommending Lee and Miller's Liaden series. I got ahold of "Partners in Necessity", and it sucked me in and didn't spit me out until I had read the whole thing, which was unfortunate, since I'm supposed to be preparing for a trip. Oh well, who needs clean clothes?

I don't know that I can add anything to what you said. The complex universe is well set up, and the suspenseful, shoot-em-up space opera holds your interest. The books have some resemblance to Anne McCaffrey (who wrote an admiring introduction to my edition) so I think the McCaffrey fans would like them.

Speaking of McCaffrey books, I had some doubts that son Todd would be able to carry on the Pern series adequately. The two I read that they co-authored I found uneven and repetitive. However, on reading Todd McCaffrey's DRAGONSBLOOD, I am convinced. He actually had me bawling...twice! He can do the job.

Babi

Pat Murphy's There and Back Again was hard to get into but really good after that. I'll look for more like this. I read about it here; thank you.

JACKIE, if you haven't read Pat Murphy's "The City Not Long After", it's considered her best. A very different post-apocalyptic approach, stirring and poignant.

Babi

Ah, that Pat Murphy. I try to read all I come across about San Francisco, my favorite city in all the world. It must be 30 years or so since I read City. I believe I've still got it somewhere in a box.

Yes, it's the same Pat Murphy. I haven't read City yet--just got it from the library.

I don't usually read science fiction, but my f2f mystery story group read a book that is both. It is "Time amd Again" by Jack Finney. The narrator travels back to Manhattan in 1882. Much of the book is taken up by describing what Manhattan was like then, so those in the group who had never been there found it boring. but the New Yorker loved it.

Time and Again was a lovely story. I"ve read it more than once.

Wasn't there a movie titled "Time and Time Again"? I seem to remember having seen a lovely, but rather confusing, movie by that name.

Babi

There was a 1980 movie, Somewhere in Time, starring Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour. Jack Finney is not named as writer on any movie about time. TIme and Again features the fabulous Dakota Apartments in NYC, overlooking Central Park.

I remember a movie featuring the Dakota Apartments, too. But then, I believe the Dakota has been a feature in more than one movie. I've seen so many movies and read so many books featuring time cross-overs, I doubt if I could keep them straight.

Babi

You might be interested:

http://www.lib.udel.edu/ud/spec/exhibits/scifi/

http://yearofvonnegut.org

Wow, Bubble, your first link led to all sorts of things I want to comment on, but my practical life is interfering, so I will have to talk tomorrow.

But for a start, have any of you read RUR? I thought it was striking that, at the point when the robots had started doing all the work but were still subservient to man, humans started becoming infertile because they felt there was no point to life if one couldn't do anything useful.

I read R.U.R, years ago, and loved it. He coined the word Robot. Seminal work! Would make a great discussion here, very short, play, but hard to find. Hard to spell his name correctly. Super thing!

Czech author: Karl Copek? Carl Kopek?

See: http://jerz.setonhill.edu/resources/RUR/index.html Rossum's Universal Robots would make a great discussion. Karel Capek wrote the play in 1920 and the word robot has become universal in use. Capek joins Asimov as molders of public opinion regarding the creation of humanoid artificial "servants". Asimov created the Three Laws of Robotics. Reading RUR along with an Asimov short story would be an interesting exercise.

PS: Acutally, it was a Capek who coined the word robot but it was brother Josef, not Karel.

I would be interested in reading RUR, but it's not in my local library. Ginny says it's had to find, which does make it difficult. I'll look some more, tho'. I read all Asimov's robot books, so far as I know.

Babi

RUR is available on Project Gutenberg. I don't know how practical it would be to try to read the download on the computer.

If anyone wants to discuss R. U. R., we could do it informally here, or make a formal mini-discussion of it, with or without some Asimov. It's too short (60 pages) for anything very elaborate. Or anyone who gets hold of a copy could just comment on it.

Getting hold of a copy may be a problem. My copy is a Dover Thrift Edition purchased new in 2002 for $1.50, but I think it isn't still available.

Thanks to your useful website, Mrs. Sherlock, I see that my copy is the original, shortened, 1920's version. The Capek reader "Toward the Radical Center" mentioned in the site, containing the longer 1990s translation, is available from Amazon.com, $14.95 for the paperback.

Alibris has it for $1.99 plus S&H.

Dover has it for $2.00

I am presently at book 5, the final, of David Eddings 'Belgariad' series. It's taken 5 books to get to the finale of the story, but I don't mind a bit. It's been a most enjoyable journey, even if it did wander all over the map...literally.

Babi

It's on my list. Sherri S Tepper has a new one, The Three Margarets; it's waiting for me to pick up tomorrow when the library reopens.

I haven't read any by Sherri Tepper. What kind of book does she write? (SciFi, of course, but more specifically.) I love well-developed characters doing bold things in alternate worlds.

Babi

My faborite Tepper book is The Gate to Woman's Country. Here is a review: "Since the flames died three hundred years ago, human civilization has evolved into a dual society: Women’s Country, where walled towns enclose what’s left of past civilization, nurtured by women and a few nonviolent men: and the adjacent garrisons where warrior men live—the lost brothers, sons, and lovers of those in Women’s Country. Two societies. Two competing dreams. Two ways of life, kept apart by walls stronger than stone. And yet there is a gate between them.... Tepper not only keeps us reading... she provokes a new look at the old issues.’" —The Washington Post

Tepper writes from a woman's perspective. Her characters are strong, her issues are universal, her imagination is fantastic. Her works fit neatly within your criteria but you will have to decide yourself about how well she meets your expectations.

BaBi, you will love her, she build a whole environment and one can get totally engrossed in the story. I always feel sorry to see her books end, I would love to read on and on. Gate to Woman's country is also one of my favorites. It had a sequel didn't it?

I hadn't heard of Tepper--she looks like someone I should try.

Try her Pat, and if you like her, you have plenty to look forward to. I have ten books by her and she wrote much more than that.

Here is the website for Tepper on Fantastic Fiction: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/t/sheri-s-tepper/ I don't see any reference to a sequel to Woman's Country. I see she has written some YA books. I've read all her mysteries; both series are very good with good characterization and intriguing puzzles.

I love Tepper.. Always wanted Womens country to go on and on and on..

I have 'Fantastic Fiction' on my Favorites list JACKIE. It's my handy-dandy reference for SciFi.

Women's country, men's country. Do you remember that old song, a musical 'duel' between 'Reuben' and 'Rachel'? "Reuben, Reuben,I've been thinking, What a grand world this would be, If the men were all transported far beyond the Northern Sea!" Reuben's response, of course, was very similar.

Babi

GOlly, I haven't thought of that song for eons. I needed a smile, thanks for sending me one.

BaBi and Mrs Sherlock, "fantastic fiction" is a great resource--thanks. I think I'll get it added to the heading.

Great idea, PAT. Any sci-fi fan would appreciate having it accessible.

Babi

I use it for all authors. It lists series in order. I especially like the listing of authors read by the one I'm researching.

This one sounds good!

A Walk Out of This World

InterWorld by Neil Gaiman and Michael Reaves

"Joey Harker has never been one to brag about his sense of direction. In fact, he's been known to get lost in his own home. But one day Joey gets really lost and walks straight out of his world and into another dimension — and a bundle of trouble. In InterWorld, master storyteller Neil Gaiman and award-winning science fiction writer Michael Reaves team up to catapult readers into a dazzling tale"

from B&N site

Tepper's The Margarets has not caught my interest and I am very disappointed. Margaret is a child, the only child, living on Phobos with her parents. Her "world" is strictly controlled: when she asks her teaching robot to define a word in the fiction book she is reading, that book disappears from the elibrary. She is imaginative and creates other Margarets who act out her fantasies. Do these alternate egos become flesh? I'm not sure I want to find out.

Zanybooks posted in the Book Nook, asking people which was their favorite Harry Potter book. This is the answer I posted there.

Zanybooks, I certainly agree that the Harry Potter books are serious writing. Not only do they speak to what adolescents feel, they have a good sense of the power and uses of myth. And the details! all those wonderful florid little squiggles she puts in! And most of the details are based on "fact" in the sense that she didn't make them up. Nicolas Flamel was a real person, most of her monsters are in the literature, bezoars were really thought to have the properties described, etc. The other day I saw a description of Kappas in an article about a museum exhibit. They are a Japanese water sprite, and have the characteristics she describes. Plus, she knows how to keep a story going, and does a remarkable job of avoiding inconsistencies.

I've read all the books several times, plus I read the first 4 aloud to my husband when he was sick and needed amusement (they read very well aloud, a good test) plus I read 1 1/2 books in Spanish when I needed to review my skills (all of "El Prisionero de Azkaban" and half of "El Caliz de Fuego").

I don't think the first is the best. She starts off slower and simpler, and really hits her stride in "Azkaban". From there on I'd have a hard time picking a favorite, leaving out "Phoenix". She needed an editor with a handful of blue pencils there.

If you really want to spark a discussion, you might try the Sci Fi site; I will repeat this post there. I am assuming that any discussion of the books will be taboo on SeniorNet starting toward the end of next week, to avoid spoilers. Certainly anyone who interferes with my chance to find out the ending for myself risks my strangling them with my bare hands.

PatH: I'll hold your coat. I like the first one because it was so novel. Meeting all the wonders, the suspense, the discoveries, etc., nothing can top my excitement as I accompanied Harry on his journey. It is only slightly ahead. I can't wait for the new one; it might become #1.

I am reading another Lois Bujold series; this woman is so-o-o-o good! The books are not following the same hero/heroine, but pick up a character from the first book to be center of the second, etc. The same setting, and some of the same characters brought forward and given bigger roles. I am in book two of three (so far): "The Curse of Chalion", "The Paladin of Souls", and "The Haunted Hunt".

Bujold tackles, with both depth and wry irreverence, the subjects of saints, gifts, Gods, and free will. This, mind you, is background to terrific stories. Actually, any one or all would make a stimulating discussion.

Babi

Bujold is one author I can read over and over, always finding new things I had overlooked on previous readings. I would welcome a discussion of her works or Connie Willis' major novels.

I am here again trying to hook on to some good, beginner fantasies and/or Science Fiction.

I might like Acorna, the Unicorn Girl. That seems like a good one.

Hats, Try the Pern Serie by A. McCaffrey. You will be hooked.

Acorna is good. Anything by Anne McCaffrey is good. She has a series about the planet Pern which has some charming stories. Dragonsong is one of my favorites. http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/m/anne-mccaffrey/dragonsong.htm She also has a series which ranks high; the first book there is The Ship Who Sang. http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/m/anne-mccaffrey/ship-who-sang.htm Michael Bishop wrote an award winner, No Enemy But Time, about Africa that is haunting. http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/b/michael-bishop/no-enemy-but-time.htm And Robert Sawyer wrote a series about our cousins, the Neanderthals, first book called Hominids http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/s/robert-j-sawyer/hominids.htm.

While verifying some of these titles I was scanning the list of Nebula winners. I haven't read them all and I've decided to read, at least, the winners. The Hugo winners also will be a fertile field to "plow". It has been difficult to find the kind of SF i really enjoy but this seems promising. Has anyone read Connie Willis' To Say Nothing of the Dog? http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/w/connie-willis/to-say-nothing-of-dog.htm It is one of my alltime favorites. Reminds me of Charley's Aunt.

I am listening to both of you. Thanks for the recommendations.

I haven't read either Connie Willis or Lois Bujold. It looks like I should try them. If anyone wants to discuss either author, we could do it here or try for a more formal general discussion.

"Plan B", the 4th of Lee and Miller's Liaden series, came in the mail yesterday, just in time for tomorrow's plane trip. This means exercising self-control for 2 days, though, since if I start it it will suck me in and not let me go. It'll make for a quick-seeming plane trip though.

PAT, you definitely don't want to miss Lois Bujold. She is a master! (Mistress?..anyway, one of the best!)

I've been wanting to read Connie Willis since Mrs. Sherlock so strongly recommends her. Right now, the only book by Willis in my local library is, by chance, "To Say Nothing of the Dog". I plan to check it out during my vol. stint at the library in the morning.

Babi

BaBi, Can you recommend a starting book for Bujold?

PAT, read them in order if you can. For the Miles Vorkosigan series, start with "The Warrior Apprentice". For the Cordelia Naismith series (Miles mother), start with "Shards of Honor". For the Curse of Chalion series, start with - aha! - "The Curse of Chalion".

I am also a strong fan of the Sharon Hill & Steve Miller books. For the great Liaden series, start with "Agent of Change". These characters really grab hold of you.

Babi

A different world again would be Marion Zimmer Bradleys. She died some time ago and I think her son writes in her world, but not as well. But Darkover was a fascinating variant on worlds.. EAch book is separate, but they do tie here and there with the characters.

I've read some of Bradley's, but long enough back that I'm not sure which ones. She is a very popular writer.

Babi

She is another author that I can read over and over.

Yes Marion is one along with Anne McCaffrey that I have saved since I can read them over and over. I am not sure just why, but I identify with Darkover. Such an interesting world.

Well, I did manage to hold off on Lee and Miller's "Plan B" until my trip. It's a worthy continuation of the 3 novels of "Partners in Necessity", a good shoot-em-up space opera, but with a lot of subtlety in characterization and where the plot is going. It ends like an old Saturday afternoon movie serial, with one crisis averted and another on the horizon. It makes no sense to read it out of sequence, since it draws so much from the previous books. Also, be warned, it has a lot of bloody battles in it.

As I recall, some of the books were more violent than others, depending on the characters involved. "Conflict of Honors", for example, I don't recall being particularly violent at all.

By the way, I should have listed "Conflict of Honors" as the first book, PAT, rather than "Agent of Change". The books were not written in chronological order of event, which causes me some confustion. However, since you started with the "Partners in Necessity" omnibus you got the first three.

Babi

Yes, and I read them in the order they are in the omnibus, which is chronological. I'm OK with the kind of violence in these books, since it isn't the main point of the book, but a lot of readers want to avoid such.

I am 1/4 through Connie Willis's "To Say Nothing of the Dog", and I'm really chuckling. It's been so long since I read "Three Men in a Boat" that it took me a bit to recognize where the title came from. I can't immediately lay my hands on my copy of Jerome's book, so I don't know how closely she is mimicking the plot, but her chapter headings are perfect. I probably won't finish it before I get sucked into the last Harry Potter, but I'll comment on it eventually.

It's a mere 26 hours before the release of the final Harry Potter book. Newspaper stories say that there are an unusually high number of spoilers around. There was a glitch resulting in mailing out a few copies early, and the New York Times has apparently already printed a book review revealing some plot points. Alleged facsimilies and plot summaries abound on the internet, along with spoiler emails. I think SeniorNet is an unlikely target, but anyone who cares a lot should be wary about any internet sites. JoanK will monitor this site for me until I finish the book, probably late Saturday or early Sunday, but of course there is always a delay before an undesirable post is removed, so the safest policy is not to look.

My personal plans involve going to sleep right after supper tomorrow night, waking up at 11:30, throwing on my clothes, and going over to the local Barnes and Noble to pick up my reserved copy, in the company of all the children who were already there for for the party and by then will be really, really cranky. I will then go home, go to bed with the book, and alternately read and sleep (mostly read).

My friends don't understand why this behavior is reasonable, but my children do.

PatH: Sounds perfectly sane to me. I'm not such a rabid fan but I will kill anyone who leaks the ending to me.

Oh no spoilers. my copy is coming from Amazon and I truly do not want to know one thing until I read it for myself..I hate spoiler types.

PAT, is your Barnes & Noble usually open all night, or is this a Harry Party Party? My library is having a Harry Potter discussion cum/ party this afternoon..it's already started...but I am obviously not attending. Valerie and I will patiently wait until the first flurry is over and then latch on to the first copy we can. I plan to ignore any references to the plot that present themselves before then.

Babi

I've finished it. Now I should try to get some more sleep, but I'm not sleepy yet. Maybe in an hour or so.

BaBi, the B & N usually closes at 11, but they had a huge Harry Potter party, then kicked people out of the store, and let them plus those who hadn't been at the party (including me) in in batches of 200 numerically by sign-up order. This was to keep under the legal occupancy limit. It was very efficient; I had my book by 12:15.

My book came in the mail from Amazon yesterday. I was amazed since I did not pay the extra shipping costs.. Good Amazon. Also decided to go and see the movie last evening. Poor husband, he is not a Potter fan, but dutifully went to the movie with me..Nice person..

My two daughters went to see the latest Harry Potter film, which is, I think, from book #4. I suppose it will be a year or two before the movie version of the latest is ready. I, of course, will wait until it's available in a closed captioned DVD.

Babi

terry goodkind ? and the sword of truth

I had not heard of Goodkind, but the Sword of Truth seems to be quite a series. This site

Tor Books

tells you the order of the series, and this

Goodkind

is his official site.

Has anyone else read him?

Pat H, thank you. I have never read this author. I read about the first book in the series. It sounds really good.

I've been looking for another good Sci-Fi author. My favorites simply can't write fast enough.

I'll check into Goodkind, and thanks for the lead, PAT.

Babi

It's not my lead, It's Bikerbowl's. Bikerbowl, would you care to tell us a little more about what Goodkind is like?

I've been reading the Liaden series by Sharon Lee and Steve Miller. Agent of Change, the first, has the standard damsel-in-distress formula, Lee/Miller's dialogue and situations sparkle with humor. This damsel is no shrinking violet, she sets out to deal with her problems, aquiring a cheering section along the way. I'm happy to say that while the body count may mount there is no gratituous violence. He shoots, the bad guy dies. A whopping good time! BTW, Anne McCaffrey's intro to the omnibus Partners in Necessity (Vols 1-3) reveal that she has read these books over and over and they are among her favorites.

I read the first 4 Liaden books, based on recommendations from BaBi and joegreyfan. When you get to the second book, you will meet a heroine who REALLY is no shrinking violet. I agree, they're good reads.

I started Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" while traveling, but haven't gotten around to finishing it since getting home. I'm not sure how much I like it. I'll write a review when I finish.

Anyone read |The Time Traveller's Wife? An intriguing concept. I have only started it...

I loved it, Bubble. Shall we discuss it when you've finished? How do you like it so far?

I do like it (I would not have mentionned, if not, lol) and I want to savor it by small doses because I think I will feel sorry when I get to the end. Is that a first book for the author?

There are more, she's an artist and has done a graphic novel and this one which is half and half, I guess: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/n/audrey-niffenegger/three-incestuous-sisters.htm Hope my library has it!

Thank you for the info. I don't think the library will have it though. And with a title like that , I doubt the American School library will have it either, unless the title is misleading. I'll just enjoy this Time Traveller for the time being.

What are you reading now?

I finished The Ghost of Hannah Mendes by Naomi Ragen. It is very different from her other books. Midway I was a bit disappointed, thinking it looked like one of those easy romance books. I changed my mind again: it made me think, has a message that I can relate to. Finally I also found that for me it clarified the importance of those traditions that I acquired rather late in life when I moved to Israel.

My library has several Ragen books; I've ordered Ghost. Have you read any of her other works? She has interesting titles: The Covenant, Chains Around the Grass. Right now I've just finished the first three Liaden Universe books, Agent in Charge, Conflict of Honors and Carpe Diem, in an omnibus edition. I've ordered the next titles in the series. Getting ready to read about Renoir, studying Poet Robert Service who wrote about Alaska at the time of the gold rush there, rereading Potok's Asher Lev books. Fantastic Fiction has lists of award winning books so I'm going to read the Hugo and Nebula ones I've missed; in addition to reading quality stories I'll find some new authors!

Yes I read almost all of Ragen and enjoyed them very much. There always is a dilemma involving women and religion or tradition, or way of life. Potok had the same dilemmas in his books, but not geared to women. He too is well in demand in my lending library. I wish I could find French translations of Ragen to add to my catalog.

Have you read the trilogy by B. Werber on ants? I have to find time for that... but it cannot be a priority as yet. It is S-F.

Werber is not listed in Fantastic Fiction. Have to do further research, maybe Locus. I've got the 2006 Hugo winner, Learning the World, by Ken McLeod, on reserve. Werber's Empire of the Ants is also now on reserve, thanks for the author's name. She is French? Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell (audio), by Suzanna Clarke, Hugo's 2005 winner, is also on reserve. Clarke's novel was nominated for the Booker, the WHitbread, and several other awards for that year. It is fantasy but the blurb calls it "Elegant, witty anc utterly compelling" so it sounds like it's worth a read. Will report back as I go.

I haven't read the Werber trilogy yet, It is in French yes, but I did not look to see if it was a translation or not: it was the last donation I received for the library before the holidays.

I only had time to see it was S-F, so I knew where to enter it in the catalog. I should print a new catalog for when we open again in September. At present it is closed for repairs and painting.

I am glad for the respite in this torrid weather. I haven't been out of the house for a few days now and don't plan to put my nose out this week end. lol

When it's hot I love to stay in my house in comfortable shorts and tank top, fans blowing, reading or knitting, napping, etc. It is usually cool at night here, mid 50s (F) these days, so sleeping isn't a problem. I can't sleep when it is hot, must have the fan blowing right on me.

Nights are almost as hot as days for the moment. ONly a long cold shower before bed helps to fall asleep, and keep all doors and windows open, hoping for a little breeze to blow in.

I can't knit right now for the heat, but I managed to finish those twins little jackets. I'll try to take a picture tomorrow.

My father was a twin whose sister died shortly after birth, and he had older sisters who were also fraternal twins. No generation since has had twins; maybe this generation coming up will be lucky.

As many of you know, I am the fraternal twin of JoanK. I hoped I would have twins too, but didn't. It's kind of nifty having a sister the same age. I see now that we were experts at working the cuteness factor for our benefit. When we read Diane Setterfield's "The Thirteenth Tale" here on SeniorNet, I realized that twin-ness was more important to me than I had thought.

Pat, are you alike in tastes and interests too? Even though you are not identical twins, you very much look alike in the pictures I've seen.

Research is wonderful. Have you heard about the people who have more than one DNA? It is suspected that this results when there are two fertilized eggs but one is absorbed into the other shortly after fertilization, resulting in different DNA in different places in the body. Sounds bizarre doesn't it?

Yes, I read that yesterday: hermaphrodite. It would make a good topic for a SF book!

You write it, BUBBLE, and I'll read it!

Babi

Ha ha ha ha I wish!

There used to be a member here NellieV, She would have the talent to do it, she is a great writer of SF.

It would make a good SciFi, but also a good mystery. Someone is accused because of matching DNA, but is able to show that he/she has two DNA strands. Or, a hermaphrodite commits murder. All the evidence points clearly to the guilty party,but the DNA test reading clears him/her. Our hero/heroine/detective must stumble across info. about hermaphoditic DNA. Not many readers would likely know about that possibility.

Babi

Two distinct DNA strands denoting an alien race... or the children of those who were abducted in UFO?

We're ona roll here, folks, maybe we could write it communally. Has Nellie Vrolek published books? Please tell us more. I remember her fondly, she is so intelligent! And very disciplined. I asked her once how could she read such a variety books? She said that she read one for an hour then she would read another, etc. She was always interested in science books, too. There were some great discussions on science when she was participating in SN. She is a microbiologist, or something equally as exotic.

I have lost touch of Nellie when she left SN rather abruptly, so I have no idea if she is published or not. I know she had some of her stories on her web site but I can't find that: I have changed computers three times and who knows on what floppy that info might be hiding. She was a most interesting woman.

Maybe we could try to write something all together on it if there is enough interest.

JACKIE & BUBBLE, It's an intriguing idea. But how would we go about it? We would need constant editing to maintain some continuity and major conferences to correlate the various strands to the story as contributing authors come up with different ideas. Partnerships have come up with some great books, but I have always been dubious about the results of 'committee' efforts.

)

Babi

Start with a general idea of what it will be about. Let say: hermaphrodite who suddenly is discovered in a family and the family doctor, or the dad, wonder about it. Then one of us volunteer to write the introduction or the few first paragraphs to launch it. Someone else after reading, will announce that they are doing the following paragraphs/ chapter. Reading it will inspire a 3rd who will say: I am next. etc. But it has to be real writing, not just a line or two, so as to give body to the story.

One might need some editing afterward to tighten the plot if there are extraneous details given that were not used at the end.

We could also discuss ideas from time to time, if one wants to keep to a general plan, but I would not make that plan definitive from th estart: ideas do come as the story develops and they are usually good.

Actually the new software will allow a separate discussion which would allow you to chat here about all things and create elsewhere if that's what you'd like.

Explain, Ginny, elaborate, please.

Do you mean like a temporary private chatroom for the purpose before posting in a discussion? Would it have voice possibilities too?

No that's not what it is, it's essentially another joined discussion, what we may need to use as an adjunct area for our headings and questions, I don't know about voice capabilities on the new site but it would be open to everybody who is posting here.

Sounds good. It might be worth trying if there is enough interest.

I think that writing part of a chapter, or many paragraphs to move the tale along would work better than what exists now in the Writing by group where it lacks cohesion because each contributes only a sentence.

My daughter is active in a website for fans of Stargate 1. They are very chatty and involved in one another's lives. There also is a section for "fanfic" where they create stories about the series and its characters. They work on the fic offline and post it when it is in readable form (beta) and ask for comments. I read all her work. She has participated in what they call "tagfic" where one writes something, a paragraph or whatever, then another picks it up. Their tagfic was fun and the situations became very weird, she says. But this method could be a good way to start, learning one another's styles, at least for the initial stages. Let's see how many are interested. Bubble, me(Jackie), and...? Sign in please. (PS Ginny, thanks for the info. By the time the new software is ready for us we may be ready for it.)

I agree that if you wanted to write a book it should be on a separate site, or the other Sci-Fi comments will get buried, and not be findable for non-writers. My writing and plotting skills being what they are, I could only be useful as a critic, but it might be fun for those who can do it.

PatH: Critics are essential to the writing process. They can spot holes in the logic, hear dialogue miscues, remember past limks, etc. In the movies they have what they call continuity people who are responsible for making sure that the black eye is the right one and not the left, etc. So hang around, you will be needed.

Path, even without writing, you might have cues and ideas for directing the plot when it is stuck...

I can write well enough on a given topic; I just don't seem to have the imagination to come up with fictional plots. I have a friend with a vivid imagination who kept coming up with story lines. Unfortunately, she couldn't spell or write. I tried doing some 'rewrites' for her, but nothing ever got completed.

I'm game for seeing what we could do with 'tagfic'. It sounds like fun. After we move would be a good idea.

Babi

BaBi, why don't you join us in WREX and write a submit? I am ready to give you a topic! The last one that was proposed was "SUMMER".

Ah, but, BUBBLE, that requires study and research. My teachers loved my essays, but that was on subjects I was studying anyway. You're talking about work now!

Babi

Babi, I don't want you to work, I want you to have fun! lol

A topic like Summer could be taken as textual of seasons, statistic of heat, etc, it could also be remembrance of a fun summer in childhood, or it could be a description of what goes on in town when there is a market day or a parade... Summer could be an age in one's life, it could be a flight of imagination of what it could be on the moon or in Tumbuctu!

Did you keep any of your old essays?

Heavens, no, BUBBLE. Our household moved about every two years for the first dozen or so years of my marriage. I definitely didn't haul around anything I didn't have to. I do have some things I've written since then, but they are mostly in the line of disputation on religious subjects and guaranteed to rouse ire in someone.

Babi

That would be very serious writing, one I would definitely consider as work It's a pity about the essays. From what you said I take that you do not keep a diary either.

Are you good at remembering and narrating anecdotes from when you were younger? That's the ones I like best to read because everyone's experience in life is so different.

Narrating true stories is within my range. No imaginative plots required. I wrote a story from my grandmother's life, too, as she told it to me. Some of what I have written I have backed up to a disc. Others were lost when our previous computer crashed.

What I regretted most in that crash was the loss of some letters my son wrote to me, that I saved. He can write the funniest, sweetest letters I've ever read.

Babi

Babi, then you must join us in WREX and tell us about it! I knew there were hidden great stories with you!

I wish my kids or my husband would write letters other than lists of facts. lol Even when I was abroad, Ben's phone calls were like the reading of a numbered list. ha ha ha.

My dad was a fantastic letter writer and after he passed away, many of his friends told me that they kept his letters even after more than ten years because they were such a joy to reread. I have the proof of it: he kept copies of all he wrote and I still have them here. I am a hoarder. lol Maybe one day I'll have them published?

Bubble: Your father left you quite a legacy. It sounds as if the letters should be published. I would buy a copy of the book.

Letters can make a wonderful book, as I have found to my great pleasure. Remember "84 Charing Cross Road"? If I could lay my hands on every letter Andy has written me, I believe they would make a most enjoyable little book, too.

Babi

Do you read French Jackie? Those letters are in French. I would be hard put to translate them, the language is so imaginative.

Babi, My parents "met" as pen pals in two different countries. At the beginning they wrote each other every week, then from the second year it became almost daily. Each kept all the letters of the other, this for about four years until they met and then for another year until they got married! I have the whole stuck of them in their tiny neat handwriting. That sure is a legacy of time gone by, a disappeared way of life from before WWII.

My French studies ended more than 40 years ago. I still know words but cannot read with any comprehension. Your parents' romance sounds like it would make a fine book. If it were published in France then the publisher might have it translated for the American and British reading public. Or make it a novel with excerpts from the letters to help carry the plot along. Those of us who can remember the war will be captivated by the nostalgia of it; it might even make a fine movie! Could you force yourself to take money for the film rights?

And now for something completely different. Mary Gordon has written a memoir about her mother called Circling My Mother. Her mother, a victim of polio when she was three, wound up supporting other people throughout her life. Gordon's father was profiled in The Shadow Man as she investigated his life and found he lived a lie(s). Publicationd ate of Mother is 8/14. I shall reserve it as well as Shadow Man.

MOst of the critics for shadow man are not that sympathetic and find it too long and repetitive as well as full of self pity.

critics

Think of all that's being lost to future researchers, BUBBLE. So much of our contact these days is by telephone and e-mail; hard to preserve those. When I think of how much historians rely on the journals, diaries and letters of people of previous generations, I fear we are losing a great deal.

Babi

BaBi, Blogs are replacing diaries these days. Some are arcchived securely.

I bet it's going to be harder to sift out the good stuff from blogs. It's so simple to rattle off thoughts on a computer, compared to actually writing by hand, that people aren't selective, and don't bother to compose carefully.

I finally got back to Connie Willis' "To Say Nothing of the Dog" yesterday, and finished the remaining 2/3. It's pretty darn funny. Thanks for recommending it, Jackie. Time-traveling historians, shell-shocked from too many time jumps, back in England in 1888, in the milieu of Jerome K. Jerome's "Three Men in a Boat", trying to cope with Victorian manners while accomplishing a dimly understood mission. Lots of parody and social satire along with a chaos theory of history.

PatH: Glad you enjoyed it. The university time traveler historians appear in some of her short stories as well as The Doomsday Book. She does short stories very well. Doonsday is short on her acclaimed humor ( maybe farce is a better word) but there are many examples in her other works.

Which one do you recommend next?

I tried to get it today at B&N and they were sold out but from what you all have said I should order it so I will, sounds like the very type of thing I love, thanks for the recommendation.

Here is the caveat: Not all her books are funny and she is not always as funny as in Dog. Her SS collections (Impossible Things) run the gamut from serious SF to wryly funny. The next most humorous book is The Bellwether; a statistician and a chaos theoritician gat tangeled up in beaurocracy. There are more Time Travel stories in her SS. Since I am a fan everything appeals to me. My all-time favorite is The Doomsday Book, another take on the TT university history department and its interface with the present.

I have been trying to read "Acorna" by McCaffrey. A lot of the SciFi terms aren't familiar to me like "asteroid, Khedive, payload." The story is really interesting. I might keep forging ahead. I put a book or two on hold by Ursula LeGuin. Is she familiar? I also want to read the book you and PatH were discussing.

Acorna is becoming very good. I like it. I hope her adopted uncles can save her from this woman psychologist who calls her differences "defects." She wants to surgically remove Acorna's horn.

Ursula Kroeber Le Guin is another pioneer woman in SF. She has written some memorable books; some of her fiction is for Young Adults. Her father, Alfred L Kroeber, was an anthropologist at Berkeley. He studied intensely the last surviving member of a local Indian tribe, the Yahi, named Ishi. Ishi in Two Worlds was written by Kroeber's wife, Theodora. A fascinating look at the extinction of a unique people. The Left Hand of Darkness won both the Hugo and Nebula awards; I have read this one several times.

Hats.. Acorna is not even the best of McCaffrey. Do go for the dragon series. They are her very very best work. LeGuin is a fantastic writer. She wrote wonderful fantasy.. Science Fiction is a what if field and is fun.

HATS, I definitely agree with Stephanie on that. The Dragons of Pern series is wonderful, and McCaffery is one of my all-time favorites. She and Bujold are, IMO, the best of the best.Oh, and I think you would also like McAffery's series on human/ship mergers.

Babi

I agree about the Dragon series. Hats, it might very well suck you in and not let you go. It's been a long time since I read them. Someone else, tell hats where to start. (Do I look like I'm trying to make a convert here?)

Hats: Here is the Pern series, in order. http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/m/anne-mccaffrey/ Dragonflight is the name of the first book. Enjoy!

Stephanie, Babi, PatH and Mrs. Sherlock, thank you for the link. I will definitely try Dragons of Pern.

Oh yes, Hats, if you are in the need for a fulfilling story that will definitely bring on the tears.. Her partnerships series is just that. I have all of them and it still brings tears to read the first one.. A wonderful book, written according to McCaffrey after her Dad died in tribute.

Stephanie, you sure know how to recommend a book. Thanks. So, the first one is Dragonflight????

Stephanie is talking about another McCaffrey series; The Ship Who Sang is the first one and is a tribute to Anne's father. I still cry, too.

That was one of AnneMcCaffrey's best book, apart from the Pern serie. I too have them and keep them preciously. They are always a joy to reread.

The new issue of Bookmarks gives "Acacia" by David Anthony Durham a 4-star review. I also read a great review of it in the Washington Post so now I have the book and am about half way through it. Trouble is that it's the first part of a trilogy!! How can I wait for the rest?? I've just started reading SF again after a 20 year hiatus. Connie Willis is a big favorite. Ursula Leguin, too. I remember liking Brian Aldiss's trilogy about Helleconia very, very much. Watch out, the phagors are coming!

Welcome back to SF, Joan! We'll enjoy chatting with you.

What's "Acacia" about?

I love flowering Acacia trees. That would already make me curious about the book

Here is what the publisher says:
"From the Publisher Leodan Akaran, ruler of the Known World, has inherited generations of apparent peace and prosperity, won ages ago by his ancestors. A widower of high intelligence, he presides over an empire called Acacia, after the idyllic island from which he rules. He dotes on his four children and hides from them the dark realities of traffic in drugs and human lives on which their prosperity depends. He hopes that he might change this, but powerful forces stand in his way. And then a deadly assassin sent from a race called the Mein, exiled long ago to an ice-locked stronghold in the frozen north, strikes at Leodan in the heart of Acacia while they unleash surprise attacks across the empire. On his deathbed, Leodan puts into play a plan to allow his children to escape, each to their separate destiny. And so his children begin a quest to avenge their father's death and restore the Acacian empire–this time on the basis of universal freedom.

ACACIA is a thrilling work of literary imagination that creates an all-enveloping and mythic world that will carry readers away. It is a timeless tale of heroism and betrayal, of treachery and revenge, of primal wrongs and ultimate redemption. David Durham has reimagined the epic narrative for our time in a book that will surely mark his breakthrough to a wide audience. "

Mrs. Sherlock, thanks. I will look for The Ship Who Sang. My library didn't have Dragonflight. I have put The Ship Who Sang on hold.

Bubble, I am coming back to read your post. It looks interesting.

Bubble, I never answered your question of 10 days ago, whether JoanK and I are alike in our interests. The answer is that we are both nerdy bookworms, similar but not identical. We like a lot of the same stuff. She has the better mind for basic ideas--can tease the main point out of a book, etc. I am the more practical one--better able to fix my windows. We read a lot of the same things, and have good conversations about them, but there are areas of non-overlap.

I do have to admit she has one fatal flaw--she doesn't like most science fiction. But we all have our weaknesses.

The Liaden Universe stories are quite engaging. I'm gobbling them up so will soon run out of them to read. Acacia sounds like a goodie. Hope my library has it!

Ha ha ha PatH, what a fatal flaw in your twin. Now I wonder what your fatal one is... lol

Mine is forgetting the world around (the husband calling, the pot boiling over...) when I am engrossed in SF.

Bubble, thank you for telling about Acacia. JoanRoberts, thank you for talking about it. I am new here. Everybody here is very helpful. I am beginning to enjoy this new genre.

I am reading a series by an author new to me,..David Gemmell. I'm finding him very enjoyable, with characters I really like. His people are realistic, with human flaws and weaknesses as well as the capacity for greatness. Then there are secondary characters who simply make one smile...or laugh.

I'm reading his 'Rigante' series, beginning with Sword in the Storm. With swords, you know it's of the hero genre.

Babi

I am re-reading the trilogy "The Gatti's Tales" (1.Finders-Seekers, 2.Mindspeaker's call, 3.Exiles' return) by G. Greeno. What a great story that is!

Anyone read Ann mcCaffrey's The Carradyne Touch ? I never heard of it and i t was printed in 1986!

The Locus Index to Science Fiction

http://www.locusmag.com/index/a1.html

Bubble: I loved the Gatti's Tales and have reread them several times. The Carradyne Touch has been published as The Lady, according to Fantastic Fiction. Sounds good. I've reserved The Lady and The Sword in the Storm.

McCaffrey wrote a few..very few straight novels. The Lady is one of them..They are good, although not as good as her sci-fi..

Thanks Stephanie, then I won't bother. I don't want to spoil the good feeling I have when I take one of her books in hand. lol

BUBBLE: Pat H's fatal flaw is persisting in believing that I would like science fiction if I only tried it. She keeps on trying, so far with little success.

Hey Joan, I am with Pat.. I am convinced that everyone would love science fiction if they find the right type. The category is so very very wide..

I am becoming converted.

JoanK, apparently I suffer from the same weakness: I am forever lending SF to a friend here and she gives them back muttering "so-so". Then she tries to induce me to read some of her beloved romances. lol

Let's see, SF vs. Romance, aren't they both "fantasy"? Vicarious living? Wonder what that says about each one's fans...

Well, our new home on SN's new website is now open. Here is the link:

SF Clearing House

If you don't use the link, you get to it by going to Discussions via the drop-down menu in the "Community" button at the top of the page.

In "Discussions" select "Books and Literature"

In B & L, select "General Book Discussions"

In G B D, you will find "Science Fictio9n Clearing House"

I think I've seen all the regulars on the new site one place or another, but for any lurkers or occasional posters, I urge you to get familiar with it as soon as possible. It's a pain in the neck at first, and it's easier to tolerate it in small doses at the beginning. In its heading, the Book Nook has a good set of directions to start with. The snag that most people hit at once is that you have to register again, even if you're registered here. Your user name can't have any spaces or punctuation marks (can have capitals) and your password must be at least 6 letters or numbers long. There is help available, and practice discussions for trying things out.

I'll keep this old site open to catch occasional posters until the end of the month, when old SeniorNet will disappear altogether. My understanding is that the discussion here will be archived in some form kind of like old book discussions, so we can still refer to it if we want. It's about time to archive it anyway.

See you in our new home!