Science Fiction Clearinghouse ~ 8/97 Export

Top 100 =================================================================

Pos | Title | Type | Author/Editor | Score

=================================================================

1 Lord of the Rings J.R.R. Tolkien 8.82

2 Ender's Game SA1 Orson Scott Card 8.45

3 The Vorkosigan Series S Lois M. Bujold 8.40

4 Flowers for Algernon Daniel Keyes 8.37

5 Dune S1 Frank Herbert 8.36

6 The Black Company Series S Glen Cook 8.27

7 The Discworld Series S Terry Pratchett 8.25

8 Way Station Clifford Simak 8.22

^ 9 The Stars my Destination Alfred Bester 8.21

^10 Hyperion S1 Dan Simmons 8.21

11 Lord of Light Roger Zelazny 8.21

12 Tigana Guy G. Kay 8.20

13 True Names Vernor Vinge 8.18

14 1984 George Orwell 8.16

^15 Liege Killer S1 Christopher Hinz 8.16

16 The Anubis Gates Tim Powers 8.14

17 The Wheel of Time Series S Robert Jordan 8.13

18 The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Robert A. Heinlein 8.12

19 First Chronicles of Amber S Roger Zelazny 8.12

20 The Intervention S Julian May 8.10

21 The Demolished Man Alfred Bester 8.09

^22 Something Wicked this Way Comes Ray Bradbury 8.08

^23 The Gormenghast Trilogy S Mervyn Peake 8.07

24 The Chrysalids John Wyndham 8.07

25 A Fire Upon the Deep Vernor Vinge 8.06

26 Doorways in the Sand Roger Zelazny 8.06

27 The City and the Stars Arthur C. Clarke 8.04

28 More than Human Theodore Sturgeon 8.03

29 Neutron Star C Larry Niven 8.03

^30 The Gap Cycle S Stephen Donaldson 8.01

31 The Hobbit J.R.R.Tolkien 8.01

32 The Foundation Trilogy S Isaac Asimov 7.98

33 The Fionavar Tapestry S Guy G. Kay 7.97

^34 A Canticle for Leibowitz Walter M. Miller 7.96

^35 Dying Inside Robert Silverberg 7.96

36 Tau Zero Poul Anderson 7.95

37 The Chronicles of Narnia S C.S. Lewis 7.95

38 The Riddlemaster of Hed S Patricia McKillip 7.95

39 Lest Darkness Fall L. Sprague de Camp 7.95

^40 Persistence of Vision C John Varley 7.95

41 Ubik Philip K. Dick 7.94

42 The Book of the New Sun S Gene Wolfe 7.93

^43 Tales of the Continuing TimeS Daniel Keys Moran 7.92

44 A Wrinkle in Time Madeline L'Engle 7.91

45 A Wizard of Earthsea S1 Ursula Le Guin 7.90

46 Memory, Sorrow and Thorn S Tad Williams 7.90

^47 The Empire Trilogy S R.Feist/J.Wurts 7.87

^48 Player of Games Iain M. Banks 7.86

^49 Second Chronicles of Amber S Roger Zelazny 7.85

^50 Replay Ken Grimwood 7.84

51 The Cyberiad Stanislaw Lem 7.84

^52 Startide Rising David Brin 7.84

^53 Snow Crash Neal Stephenson 7.83

^54 Alice in Wonderland Lewis Carroll 7.83

^55 City. C Clifford Simak 7.83

56 The Door into Summer Robert A. Heinlein 7.83

57 Timescape Gregory Benford 7.82

^58 Green Hills of Earth C Robert A. Heinlein 7.80

^59 Witches of Karres James Schmitz 7.80

60 Past Through Tomorrow C Robert A. Heinlein 7.80

^61 Clockwork Orange Anthony Burgess 7.79

^62 Tea with the Black Dragon R.A.MacAvoy 7.79

63 Speaker for the Dead SA2 Orson Scott Card 7.78

64 Hitchhiker's Guide to GalaxyS1 Douglas Adams 7.78

^65 Watership Down Richard Adams 7.78

66 Stormbringer S6 Michael Moorcock 7.77

67 Bridge of Birds S1 Barry Hughart 7.76

^68 The Once and Future King T.H. White 7.76

^69 Futurological Congress Stanislaw Lem 7.76

70 Burning Chrome C William Gibson 7.76

71 The White Dragon S5 Anne McCaffrey 7.76

72 Protector Larry Niven 7.75

73 Gateway S1 Frederik Pohl 7.75

74 A Song for Arbonne Guy G. Kay 7.75

^75 The Day of the Triffids John Wyndham 7.75

76 The Dispossessed Ursula Le Guin 7.74

^77 The Rolling Stones Robert A. Heinlein 7.74

^78 Time For the Stars Robert A. Heinlein 7.73

^79 The High Crusade Poul Anderson 7.72

80 Space Cadet Robert A. Heinlein 7.72

81 Good Omens Pratchett/Gaiman 7.72

^82 The Shockwave Rider John Brunner 7.72

^83 Creatures of Light and Darkness Roger Zelazny 7.72

^84 Marooned in Realtime Vernor Vinge 7.71

^85 Red Planet Robert A. Heinlein 7.71

86 The War of the Worlds H.G. Wells 7.71

^87 Starman Jones Robert A. Heinlein 7.71

^88 The Diamond Age Neal Stephenson 7.71

89 The Forever War Joe Haldeman 7.70

^90 Into the Labyrinth S6 M.Weis & T.Hickman 7.70

^91 The Vampire Lestat S2 Anne Rice 7.70

92 Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Philip K. Dick 7.70

^93 Diamond Mask S2 Julian May 7.70

94 To Your Scattered Bodies Go S1 Philip J. Farmer 7.70

^95 Jack of Shadows Roger Zelazny 7.69

^96 The Phoenix Guards S1 Steven K.Z. Brust 7.69

97 Stand on Zanzibar John Brunner 7.69

98 Expanded Universe C Robert A. Heinlein 7.69

99 Prentice Alvin SB3 Orson Scott Card 7.68

100 I, Robot C Isaac Asimov 7.68

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Nellie, All -

Just lucked out and found two new books at our library:

a new Hyperion Series, THE RISE OF ENDYMION, by Dan Simmons, and a new Larry Niven book, DESTINYS ROAD.

My cup runneth over!

Peggy

I have at least 95 of the 100 books listed on favorites list. Won't say which ones as yet.

Peggy: is the new dan Simmons book set in the same universe and on the same planet?

Not much time...Nellie

Nellie - From the fly cover info, it is the year 2730 on the planet Destiny where 250 years ago a group of colonists were cut off from Earth when the ship Argos deserted them. The landing craft, Cavorite, also disappeared mysteriously leaving a wide swath on the planet's surface which the settlers of Spiral Town call the Road. Following the Road and its mysteries seems to be the plot. No particular universe mentioned on the cover.

Peggy

What do you know? People in the sci-fi section. I had missed this entirely. I have been reading any sort of science fiction since about age 12. Right now am working on a 8 volume series by Jennifer Roberson.. About the Cheysuli (shape changers with a twist). Love all of the usual with one addition. Elisabeth Van Arsburg.. French Canadian , have to read her in english translation. She is just wonderful. I look everywhere for her. Have only found two books so far, but they were worth it.. Does anyone besides me remember Zenna Henderson. There was a wonderful author

Finally, here I am again. Hello all!

Peggy: I was at the bookstore yesterday and spotted 'Endymion'; naturally I had to buy it. Read the first chapter last night. What an interesting method of sentencing someone to death, using a Schrodinger box. An intreging start to the novel.

Stephanie: I not only remember Zenna Henderson, I have two of her books: Holding Wonder, and The Anything Box. I also have two books by Elisabeth van Arsburg, The Silent City, and In the Land of the Mothers. Like you I always have my eyes looking for more by her.

A few more favorites: Dragon's Egg by Robert L. Forward, Dreamsnake by Vonda N.McIntyre, and Stardance by Spider and Jeanne Robinson.

Does anyone read Asimov's Science Fiction magazine?

Have many other places to catch up on...see you all later

Nellie

Nellie - I just now realized that I had told you about the Larry Niven book, Destiny's Road, when your question was really about Simmons' Endymion! Guess I must have been out of body!

Anyway, glad you found it at the bookstore and know you'll enjoy it.

Stephanie - Many thanks for mentioning some new (to me) authors and titles, as I seem to be running out of worthwhile sci-fi these days.

Peggy

It seems we are all too busy reading our good books to come here very much. I'm enjoying Endymion...not too far along since I read other books as well.

Another remember this: does anyone remember E.E.Smith's Lensman series? I'd love it if someone made a T.V. series or a movie out of it. Classic 'space opera' lots of excitement and marvelous heroes and heroinnes(?). Another good author who writes anthropological SF stories: Michael Bishop...books: A Little Knowledge, Stolen Faces, No Enemy But Time, and Eyes of Fire are my favorites. More well liked books: The Snow Queen, and The Summer Queen by Joan D.Vinge. I think her World's End also is set on the same world but not sure if it is part of the same story.

Nellie.

Nellie:

So many of my old favorites are on your lists. I just finished Memory by Lois McMasters Bujold. I couldn't put it down! Have you tried her yet? Will try to get Simak's City at a used book store in Mountain View, it has lots of sci-fi. I used to read analog, F&SF, Locus, etc. to keep up with all the authors and coms. Now, I have this wonderful website. When I find a new author, I check it out at amazon.com

Jackie: I don't have any books by Bujold as yet but have read a number of her short stories in Asimov's magazine; they are always enjoyable to read.

Some more favorites: C.J.Cherryh's Faded Sun series. Way of the Pilgrim by Gordon R.Dickson. Courtship Rite by Donald Kingsbury.

I'm listing favorite books because I'm not sure exactly how much of a discussion I can have about a book or books. Like I was doing with City but then that list of 100 top S.F. books came up and I took it as a hint that was the way we were to go as it was the official leader who posted it.

Two interesting books written at the same time by different authors on the same subject. The Web Between the Worlds by Charles Sheffield, and The Fountains of Paradise by Arthur C.Clarke.

Let me know more of your favorite books and new ones that are good.

Nellie.

Nellie: This is a learning experience for me. The person who says that such-and-such is the best is clearly putting a damper on an exchange of ideas. I thought that was the purpose for this meeting place, a forum for ideas. (There is a book listed in Barnes & Noble's sci-fi newsletter, I think that's where I saw it, which calls itself The 100 Best Science Fiction Books.)

I'm interested in what you tell me; you are a thoughtful, analytical reader. The whys are as important as the whats. Do you see a pattern in your favorites? Sometimes I like the really way out themes. Did you ever read the Riverworld books? Another theme I like is animals, expecially when there is an element of cross-species communication.

My life has been complicated lately,so I have not been as prompt as I would like in my responses. It will be better soon. Take care.

Oh, perish the thought. The listing was just something I had lying around. Of course, discussion is the most interesting way to go. I try to find things off the web, like the list, that offer just one more way of looking at it (reviews, etc.). Feel free to find things off the web yourself and post them if you wish.

Totally flexible here. Nothing formal. I've been trying lately to start Orson Scott Card's four volume, and just can't find the time to get started on the first book!

Gary

.

Just found this section reg. sci fi books. Finished reading the series of books by arthur c clarke Rama and brought the computer game and found it for once amazingly like the book. I've read the Riverworld series also. Most of the other authors here I have'nt tried but will now thanks to your mentioning. I love sci fiction, even dreamed of flying in space when i was a kid before they really did it. My kids tease me that I was dropped off my aliens. Looking forward to reading more. Maru chicago

My enjoyment of the Rama series diminished with each volume, although I would have to say that my enjoyment of the fourth volume was 55/45. I think it would make a good scifi movie.

I'm waiting for the Asimov follow-ons, Benford's Foundation's Fear initially in paperback.

Gary

.

Hi, fans!

The old-fashioned science fiction writers, like Larry Niven and whoever wrote the trilogy about the giant in the space suit our guys discovered on the dark side of the moon, was he called Charlie? used to be among my favorites. Fantasy I usually leave alone. However, Gayle Greeno has written a trilogy about a creature called a Ghatt who can form a mental bond with a human (like the dragons of Pern). Just finished Book 1 of the Ghatti's Tale: Finders - Seekers, which I have enjoyed very much.

I, too, found my interest in Rama fading along about the third book. My favorite Asimov tale has to be Nightfall. What an imagination the good Dr. had. I have spent many delightful hours in Majipoor. There was another series about a desert planet and lions who were telepathetic with humans. Randall Garrett, maybe?

Hello fellow SF fans:

At last I'm back again. There were quite a few messages for this discussion. And new people joining us. Welcome!

Jackie: I have read the Riverworld series; liked the concept of everybody who ever lived reincarnated on the banks of that endless river and having actual people not made up chracters be the heroes. I have a nice book with the animal human interaction theme: Medicine Show by Jody Lynn Nye. The story is about the adventures of Shona Taylor and her alien friend Chwirl, an otterlike being, a very inteligent dog, and cat, rabbits, and mice.

Gary: Which of Orson Scott Card's series are you trying to get started on? The Memories of Earth series or the Ender series? I find the Ender series the better of the two. Found the first couple of books in Earth series had to much of the fantasy like elements. I like fantasy too mind you, but thought it was like Card couldn't make up his mind if he wanted to write SF or fantasy. It took me a long time to read those books which means I didn't find them to be too exiting; the more exciting the book the faster I read.

I believe it was James P. Hogan who wrote the Giants series in which they find the bodies( or skeletons) of gaint alien beings on the far side of the moon. Going by memory here, its been a while since I have read it.

More good books: Hiero's Journey by Sterling E. Lanier and Unforsaken Hiero by same author. I think the hero has a moose for a friend.

Just finished rereading Jack Williamson's The Humanoids book. Did not care for the ending of the second story. He admits himself in the postscript that he painted himself into a corner with his perfect robots. They were simply unbeatable by ordinary humans. I would have ended the story that way, with the robots serving man and keeping man enslaved with their solicitude.

Almost out of space so will stop...see you all soon again...Nellie

Ender series, and from the sound of your "review", it'll probably make a good lunchtime read.

Gary

.

Nellie:

Thanks for the tips. Found only one Jody Lynn Nye: Don't Forget Your Spacesuit, Dear. An anthology. Will try Barnes & Noble. Haven't had a chance to get to the used book store yet, but have quite a list. It was Hogan, thank you very much. I have reread that trilogy several times. The books I find most memorable have characters I would like to know. They're intelligent, full of human foibles, funny, vulnerable, caring, imperfect. And, of course, the problems in their lives have neat endings! The science attracts me, too, because I like all that stuff. Other elements necessary to my enjoyment include striving to reach goals, and solving a puzzle through assorted clues. The plot elements will not keep my interest if the characters are jerks, or have no "life". There, I feel better now. The soap box can go back into the closet.

Nellie, did you get my E-mail?

Jackie: No I didn't get your e-mail. I think there may be a number of e-mails addressed to me that are 'Lost in Cyberspace'. I agree with you that any book must have interesting characters, and in case of SF believable science, even if it is something that expands on what we know now. I like books in which the characters are given a challenge to overcome. Specially like ones in which other worlds are presented in great detail, so you almost feel like you are there. The Majipoor books are a good example.

Am reading Dan Simmon's Endymion, very good. I'm not far into it yet because I read a number of different books during the day and I'm reading this one slowly to savour every word and image. A good book will become as much pictures in my mind as words. At times the book may totally disappear and just the pictures are there. Do you have that happen?

An interseting book: The Disappearance by Philip Wylie. The men disappear from the woman's world and the woman disappear from the men's world. Tells of how each of the sexes reacts to similar situations in different ways.

Be on my way now....Nellie

Nellie:

What a tantalizing phrase: I read a number of different books during the day.

Images do remain with me, seldom the words themselves. Yet, when an author is particularly adept with words, I relish the reading experience. Perhaps that is why I like poetry so much, the mental images are so sharp because the words have been so well polished. When the scene of a book is a locale I am familiar with, there is additional enjoyment in my pictures. I have just realized that those images are responsible for Asimov's haunting "Nightfall" sticking in my mind some thirty years or so after I first read it.

I remember that I liked Wylie when I read him. Of course, shuffling those stone tablets was a chore. Seriously, doesn't he date from the WWII era, pre- or post-?

Have you read Sherri S Tepper? Some of her books are also examinations of the societal differences between the genders. I really like her.

Nellie Vrolyk, Hi, I have also read and enjoyed the Riverworld series by Philip Jose Farmer (lives in Peoria Illinois). I haven't been able to find any of his recent books, if there is any. Does anyone know of any? I love Si-fi of any kind, but books or movies about time travel really gets to me. Thanks for listening. Bill Donelson The TROY FLASH

Hello Everyone who loves Science Fiction:

Jackie: I have a lot of books by Sheri. S. Tepper. I like her writing style and her stories a lot. The interaction between the sexes is especially emphesized in her 'The Gate to Women's Country' in which men and woman live totally apart in different societies. Other books by Tepper that I have are: Raising the Stones, Grass, Sideshow, A plague of Angels, Beauty, and After Long Silence. I'm thinking I might have more but can't come up with the titles.

I think the two authors most reprented in my collection are: Piers Anthony and Jack L. Chalker for SF/fantasy writers, and Stephen King and Robin Cook for other types of stories. My reading habits? You'd think I had none the way I hang onto the 'net lately. In the morning I read an article in each of six different magazines. While I eat breakfast I read the Reader's Digest or Prevention Magazine. I'm not a newspaper reader, surpringly. At lunch I read one of my library books, usually on scientific subjects or computer things. And from 11pm to 1am is book reading time. I'm currently reading the following: A Heritage of Stars by Simak, StarGate by Pauline Gedge, The Final Encyclopedia by Gordon R. Dickson, Endymion by Dan Simmons, The Regulators by Richard Bachman(King's alter), The Throat by Peter Straub. Lots of variety as you can see.

Bill, welcome to our group. I haven't seen much new by Farmer but then I haven't been out to a bookstore lately where they have a good supply of SF books.

Favorite book: The Persistence of Vision by John Varley.

Nellie

Hi Nellie:

I Finally got to the used book store; they had City. They also had lots of early Charlotte MacLeod. No Hyperion, which I guess I'd best read before Endymion. I remember Persistence of Vision as a title, but have no clue to the plot.

If you are interested in science, I heard an interview with the author of Born to Rebel; his name is Suloway. The book is about birth order. His hypothesis is that, for instance, Darwin's observations weren't unique, but his placement within the sibling order allowed him to make that intuitive leap where others had merely observed. That is only a capsule. Sounds fascinating to me.

Hi Bill:

Have you read the Timewar series, by Simon Hawke? There are twelve in all. Time travel, very good. Also, if you want to see what Farmer has written lately, go to Amazon.com. I always check out authors and books before I buy.

Hello!

Jackie: I'm going to see if I can find the birth order book by Suloway at the library because it sounds really intreging. I'm a first born, the eldest of seven, and wonder what type of special characteristics that would give me. I'm still reading Endymion, you must find it because it is really good and yes do read the two previous books first; they are Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion. Sometimes they are in one volume called the Hyperion Cantos. Simmons version of the Web which consists of worlds connected together in hyperspace is wonderful. The whole idea of people having a living room on one world, a bedroom on a totally different world, and the kitchen still some where different is simply mind boggling. One of the very best thought out and imagined future societies I've ever read about.

Simak's A Heritage of Stars which is one of the books I'm currently reading and enjoying. It is one of my older books, I've had it around for quite a while and like to read it again once in a while. It is the story of a young man on a quest for 'the place of stars' a place where men once set out to go to the stars. Earth is in a dark age after some cataclysmic war in which all technological knowledge was lost. At the point in the story I've reached he has met a wonderful character named Meg with her horse Andy. Meg claims to be a witch and does seem to have some psi powers. I like the description of the horse as being a humble gentle animal, willing to serve and being not a proud steed but somewhat of a nag.

I think I've given everyone enough to read about, and my pecking finger is tiring...so see you later. I'll try not to be so very long.

Nellie

Nellie: Sorry you had to wear out your finger, but your messages are never long enough for me. I can't seem to read more that one book at a time these days, and that only after I go to bed! My web time has two foci: 1) I signed up with Geocities for a free home page, so now I'll have to learn how to create one; 2) watching the earthquake and other geological info at an ancient caldera called Long Valley, on the California-Nevada border just east of Yosemite. Swarms of tiny earthquakes and occasional biggies of 3.0 or more. The caldera has a recurrent dome(!). What has Mother Nature planned?

I, too, am eldest, but of three only. My ex-husband was an only. not a good combination. Let me know what you think of Suloway's book, it is definitely on my list.

These days I am spending lots of my non-work time visiting my 83-year-oold aunt (my mother's older sister and my surrogate mom since my mother died). She had to have her hip prosthesis removed, massive infection caused by bad teeth, and on and on. She is hale but fragile, and has more surgery coming up: extracting her remaining teeth and, later, replacing the hip.

Enough gabbing. Later…

Hello!

Jackie: In regards to making your Web page, have you checked out the On-line Classes folder here at SN? You'll find lots of help there. If you've seen my Home page you know I can do the HTML stuff but I'm not good at explaining how. Are you close to that earthquake area?

Now that the somewhat off-topic stuff is out of the way...I just spotted some books on my favorites shelves I will share. They are: West of Eden, Winter in Eden, and Return to Eden all by Harry Harrison. The books all take place in an alternate history, or should I say prehistory, in which intelligent dinosaurs rule the earth and keep men as slaves. The intelligent dinosaurs called the Yilane have a technology based on biological systems rather than mechanical or electronic ones and are more advanced in that respect than men. Understandable since they have at the time of the story existed for much longer than mankind. The whole tale begins with the idea of "What if that asteroid had not hit earth 65 million years ago?" If you have not read these books try to find them, and if you have read them let me know what you think.

More on Simak's A Heritage of Stars: The hero, named Tom Cushing, has just rescued a robot named Rollo who was pinned under a fallen tree. Rollo is rather talkative, he never shuts up. Tells Tom he talks to himself when there is no one else around, and here's what he says about talking to yourself: "Talking with oneself it's possible to find many areas of precise agreement, and one need never talk on subjects that are not agreeable." He is right when you talk to yourself there is never an argument, is there? Interesting thing to think about. We are also introduced to a place called Thunder Butte(which our intrepid hero is trying to find) and the sentient trees which guard it..."They gloried in the sun and knew all that went on around them and talked with one another..." What a different concept, intelligent plants. I look forward to seeing more of them in the story.

Am forgetting my snack time...must speed away for now...

Nellie

Hi, Nellie: Harry Harrison, ah, yes. Better known for the Stainless Steel Rat series. I've read those books. When you talk dinos, though, Raptor Red lives on in my mind most vividly (Bakker ascribes intelligence to this species which was so menacing in Jurrassic Park). This dino question in its magnitude is akin to the recent announcement that the Milky Way will collide with another galaxy in 2 billion years. Each is too much for me to grasp. Mankind's history encompasses a mere one million years, and dinosaurs were around for hundreds of millions of years! Neanderthal, another book I read recently, explored the discovery of a pcoket of this cousin-to-man species in the remote Afghanistan/Russia border area. Very provocative ideas about communication without words. Cooperation instead of competition. How might the dinosaurs have "ruled?"

If you like Piers Anthony, you may like Charlotte MacLeod's mysteries. Two series, one about Boston Brahmins and the other is about a small agricultural college in Maine, Balaclava College. The humor is not as broad, and puns are absent, but slyly humorous it is. I found a mother lode of the early ones at the used book store.

Sherri S Tepper's newest, Gibbon's Decline and Fall, is a scary extrapolation of some social trends into the very near future; another look at how far apart the two genders "really" are.

I live in the SF Bay area and Long Valley is aprox. two hundred miles away, on the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. But we are literally surrounded by faults here, so we keep a watchful eye out for increases in activity. The volcano chain is a very long one and no one wants another Mt. St. Helens, especially so close.

The coffe has finished dripping and there's a luscious sour cherry danish to go with it waiting for me. 'Voir!

Finally back to Sci-fi.. I have been having problems with my subscription forms and did not miss this one until I was checking out some other stuff. I just finished the 8 volume Jennifer Roberson series on a lovely medeival type fantasy world.. A race who can change into animals and also has an animal of the same type as a permanent companion. Witches and bad omens and a type of manifest destiny.. This had a wild collection. Fun though.. Noone mentions Anna McCaffery and I do love the dragons and the sentient ships..

Hello everyone!

Stephanie: I have a stack of Anne McCaffrey's books a mile high; I've just not gotten around to telling about how much I enjoy her books. My all time favorite is: The Ship That Sang. It brought tears to my eyes the first time I read it, and continues to do so with each re-rerading. Love the Pern series, naturally, and the stories of the people with the psi powers; The Rowan is one that comes to mind, and To Ride Pegasus is another. Have you read any books by Elizabeth Scarborough? She writes more fantasy type books that have a lot of humor in them. Here are some of her books: Song of Sorcery, The Unicorn Wood, Bronwyn's Bane, The Christening Quest, and The Harem of Aman Akbar. I believe she also wrote a couple of books set in a Lost Horizons type setting but can't come up with the titles at the moment.

Here's an interesting question to ponder. Is technology important to an SF story? Even though the technology the characters in a story use might be in the background, it seems to me to be important and part of what makes SF. A story could be set on a far away planet with colonists at a pre-tech level, and yet there was technology which delivered them there in the form of spaceships. What do you think? And does the fact that we read stories in which technology is so commomplace put us more at ease with the new technologies around us, such as computers?

Haven't had much chance to read lately...too much good stuff on TV.

Nellie

Nellie, Years ago in the 50's when I started with sci-fi, I did love technology and hard science books. However over the years, I have grown to love alternative worlds and just recently have read a few by young sci-fi writers, which are wonderfull. All about fantasy, but they anchor them in malls and such. Just so much fun. Yes I do love Elizabeth Scarborough. Her people are so charming. However she has written a book on Viet nam ( I think she was a nurse), that is heart rending. The Ship who Sang according to Anne McCaffrey was written after her father died to help her cope with the grief. I never reread it without crying and thinking of my own Dad..

Hello SF fans!

Stephanie: I still tend to like the stories that are heavy on physics and technology. I do enjoy all types of SF; the main thing is that it have good characters and an imaginative story.

Did get a bit more reading done. Endymion keeps getting more and more interesting. Also found the final book in Stephen R. Donaldson's Gap Cycle: Now All Gods Die. I enjoy his books but do find that things are sometimes a bit over-dramatized. Another new book I got is Space Odyssey 2061 by Clarke, look forwards to reading this one.

Simak's A Heritage of Stars: our hero Tom has found a map left behind in the camp of nomadic raiders which shows the existence and location of Thunder Butte. I don't think he really believed the place existed until now. Have also been introduced to another strange being called Glittering Snake by Rollo the Robot. This is a being in the shape of sparkles of light which communicates with Rollo and is his friend. So now there is quite a varied little group heading for 'THe Place of Stars'; Tom, Meg, Rollo, Snake, and Andy, the horse. Simak has a great love of nature and it shows in his lovely descriptions of natural things. That's what I enjoy most about his writings, the way he shows people living in a simple manner in harmony with the natural world.

later....Nellie

Hi etc. New guy on this board. Been reading and collecting for 40+ years. What-no Jack Vance? Also try "Merchanter" series by C.J.Cherryh, "Cyteen" being best to start. Wonderful lady!I belong to SFBC and get new offers every month. they're on line too (sfbc.com). Amazon.com's got lots of the old stuff too. cheers. arney(arneymus@pathwaynet.com)

Has anyone else tried Piers Anthony's... Mode.. There are three or four.. Fractal,, etc. They are really neat. A girl, a hero and striding across parallel universes. Such a fun series.. Not sooo cutsy as xanth

Hello everyone!

Glad to see new posters!

Arney: I have read the "Merchanter" series, enjoyed it very much. Have you read Cherryh's "Faded Sun" series? I have some books by Jack Vance: Araminta Station, and Ecce and Old Earth.

Stephanie: I have all of the "Mode" series except for the final book. Will have to keep an eye out for it. Also need to look for the latest Xanth books. I think I have pretty well everything Piers Anthony ever wrote. My most favorite of his series is the Incarnations of Immortality one. Second one is the Cluster series, because of the imaginative aliens.

Simak's A Heritage of Stars: First I made a booboo last time with the name of the sparkle creature, it is "Shivering Snake". More strange characters have joined the group, shadow creatures called the Followers. Tom makes an interesting remark to Meg about what will happen when they come to "The Place of Stars"; he says that just being there may not be enough. He is beginning to yearn for something more. It will be interesting to find out what will happen, and if my guess about Shivering Snake and the Followers is correct; that they are aliens who have been stranded on earth.

See you all later,

Nellie

I'm a visitor dropping by. For something fun to do with your computer, build a database that has a list of all of the books you have read in your life and the year you read them. I started building the list over 40 years ago when I could still remember. When I bought my first computer in early 1989 it was one of the first things I did. I don't list text books or technical books. Just fiction and non-fiction. Since I started reading real stuff like Treasure Island when I was 8, I now have 61 years worth of reading on the list. I have averaged over three books a month for the 60 + years. Personally I have gotten a bit fed up with the extended series that go on an on. I have a signed copy of "Something Wicked This Way Comes" and also a signed copy of Prelude to Foundation.

For those like me who are always looking for something different, my son-in-law is a friend since childhood of Roger MacBride Allen. I personally consider most of Roger's stuff a bit too techie, but his third book, published in 1988, "Orphan of Creation," is quite unusual and quite good. When I read it, I expected really great things of him. The stuff he has written since doesn't do much for me, but I think most lovers of the classic science fiction of Clarke, Azimov, Heinlein, etc. will like it. I believe it is still available although you may have to special order it. It never appeared in hardback and was published by Baen Books.

Happy Thanksgiving to all "USers". Haven't taken the time to post in a while. Families sure keep us hopping, don't they?

Has anyone read the Mars trilogy? Reviews at Amazon were good, piqued my interest.

Found a Twice-read Van Vogt anthology; I'd forgotten him. Null-A I read, but of course, as my kids say, that was on clay tablets. Catch you later.

The oldies are definitely the goodies in many sci-fi cases. I sell double the amount of old stuff to newer types.. Except for Terry Pratchett, who is a popular favorite with the high school crowd . Also Robert Jordan, who writes truly looooooong books.

Hello all!

Been away from here a while.

Jackie: Who wrote the Mars trilogy? I have one book by Kim Stanley Robinson which I think is the first in a series, so could he be the one?

Finished reading Simak's A Heritage of Stars. Tom and friends meet two more odd characters: an old man who speaks to plants and his granddaughter whose mind travels the universe. They reach Thunder Butte and are allowed in by the guardian trees. The butte is a place of many wonders, of aliens studying the human race, of robotic probes returned from journeys to far away stars and worlds all eager to tell of where they went,and of an old robot who guards all the knowledge but has no way to access it without the help of men with psi powers. The people with Tom all have such powers but more are needed so in the end he is on the way back to the university he left so long back for help.

Simak is always very philosophic and makes me think. He does seem to believe that technology causes man to lack something that he might otherwise have. A closer tie with the natural world. He could be right, in a way. I wonder how many people live in apartments and barely get out into any sort of nature; who only see nature via the technology of TV? We're not like that I know. We garden and spend time outdoors; and we sit at this computer a lot too; but I for one can't garden in the winter, and plowing through six feet of snow out in the country is not my cup of tea. We may not get close up and personal with nature but through technology we see more of nature than we ever would without it.

Enough of my preaching on this subject. Am still reading Endymion. Great book!

Nellie

Nellie: Yes, that's the Mars trilogy. Did you like Red Mars?

Technology in the time when Simak was writing his stories, what, 30 years ago, was big and impersonal. A computer could fill a small building, and it required a bevy of "servants" to keep its tapes changed, etc. What I call the tyranny of illogical beings, meaning things you can't "reason" with. The main frame computer where I work is being replaced by a slew of modules and will be sited in a large closet-like space. Expansion and upgrading is not much more difficult than my buying the new Joy of Cooking, although I will keep the old one right next to it. I don't fear my Mac, it is as friendly as my coffee-maker, more so. But the time I spend staring at its screen is time I could be tending my miniature roses, if I could keep the blasted things from dying!

Yet, Simak is responding to the isolation which we share (?) when we interact with technology. Two hundred years ago, we would spend our days in labor which involved fellow humans, and the objects we would be laboring on would be things which lived as well. Horses, chickens, etc. I do not even speak to my fellows when I am communing with my computer! Its enrichment of/to me is internal, and invisible. The turning point was when humankind ventured away from the concrete into the abstract.

Nellie, you make my thoughts turn into unexpected channels. I'm pretty pragmatic, but following your thoughts sends me into such interesting new chambers. A book club might be fun. There's too much on my agenda right now to do more than hold the eraser, with work and daily visits to my 83-year-old aunt as she recuperates from her hip surgery. (They may be able to try a new the hip prosthesis in another two months or so; until then she has very little mobility.)

Sure would be fun!

Hello fellow SF fans:

Jackie: you have some interesting thoughts on technology and man's interaction with it. It is most true that a hundred or more years ago there was more of people working with other people and other living creatures. The industrial revolution changed all that; people worked in factories in which noisy machines would preclude conversation to a great extent. Then came computers, TV, radio, cars which tend to a large extent to isolate us from others. Cars do give us the ability to travel more easily to visit others who live far from us, but while we are travelling in the car we are separate from others also in their cars, and even somewhat separate from others in the car as we must, if driving, keep most of our attention on the road. The telephone unites us to others for it lets us talk to people who are far from us. The Internet has added a new twist to using the computer because we can be in contact with others all over the world while sitting isolated at our computers. And we are meeting people we would never have met, if it were not for the 'net. So technology can be both bad and good, if you think of it. Makes me think of what mom was saying last night about television; that it gives us the ability to see things that might have been around for millions of years and that people a hundred years ago would not even have known that these creatures existed. Her remark was occasioned by a nature show on kelp forests shown on PBS last night.

I have two of the Rose Carpet roses and they do wonderfully here in spite of the harsh winters. At the moment the weather is very mild but I know from experience that won't last. Though at the rate things are going we may have a snowless Christmas.

Yes.I did enjoy Red Mars. I am going to see if I can find the other two books and then read the whole series from the start.

I'd better stop here before I run out of room. Oh, yes, the book club.Were you thinking of a Science Fiction book club?

take care of yourself,

Nellie

Anyone read, Voice of the Planet, by Michael Tobias? I found it while scouring the sci fi shelves for something new to read. Apparently it was made into a TV series in 1990, but I don't recall seeing it. It's about an ecologist who finds himself engaged in a dialogue with a talking computer who turns out to be none other than Gaia, Mother Goddess of Earth. She wants to help him write a book that he has in progress with the aim of preserving the planet for succeeding generations of our species.

Peggy

Peggy: Sounds very provacative; does the blurb give you any clues to the context that the author is speaking from? I don't know the TV series.

Nellie: Yes, a science fiction book club. There are so few of us here, though. And I don't have much time for reflective reading, mostly it is as I'm getting ready to sleep. I'll wake up in the morning with my glasses on and the book on the floor!

I just finished City. It is still percolating through my mental filters. Too soon to talk about.

The Best of A E Van Vogt is another deep book. He writes passages between the individual items (some are stories, at least one is a speech, etc). He describes being personally converted to Dianetics by L Ron Hubbard. I will quote a snippet from his Final Comment: "Reading science fiction lifted me out of the do-and-be-and-have world and gave me glimpses backwardand forward into the time and space distances of the universe. I may live only three seconds (so to speak), but I have had the pleasure and excitement of contemplating the beginning and end of existence. Short of being immortal physically, I have vicariously experienced just about everything that man can conceive will happen by reading science fiction." In another place, he speaks of the process of reading as being interactive, claims he leaves room for the reader's brain to fill in bits in the text. I haven't finished it; one doesn't read this book from cover to cover in an hour or two, at least this one doesn't.

Bye!

Jackie -

Michael Tobias, the author of Voice of the Planet, has the ecologist coming from a place of compassion and empathy for all the suffering and misery on Earth. He is appalled at mother nature's apparent disregard for the pain and suffering of the individual--her sole aim seems to be keeping an optimum gene pool in existence on the planet. The clash between these viewpoints is food for thought and can be very frustrating.

I'm nearing the end of the story and Gaia has admitted that her main concern is that humans will destroy the planet, and she wonders quite frankly if she will have the energy to start the entire process of its recovery again (she has apparently had to go thru the process many times in the past).

A very good read.

Peggy

Hello!

Ah! Two interesting books for me to look into and lokk forward to reading; Voice of the Planet, and the Best of A.E.van Vogt. Am visting the library tomorrow and shall see if I can find either one or both.

I agree with Van Vogt's idea of having the story be interactive. In SF especially the reader's imagination should be given full rein so to speak, not verything should be spelled out in great detail; there should just be enough there that you can fill in the blank spaces with your own visions. There are many different types of futures in SF because the future is very fluid by nature and in the future anything is possible but not everything will happen. And the future arrives day by day without our really being aware of it. I was reading in the December issue of Yahoo! Internet Life about how Science Fiction was in a way the cause of the Internet and the Web existing, and that we now have in the form of flip-open cell phones the communicators used in the original Star Trek series. When you look closely we have so many things that most people would have expected to be impossible or just dreams in the '50's when I was young(As were we all), the personal computer being just one example; others are: microwave ovens, color TV, videorecorders, videocameras, digital cameras, cell phones, faxmachines,CD's, and probably many more things that I'm not even aware of. We don't think of these things as futuristic, they just are.

Lot's to think about...Jackie would like to hear more on your thoughts about City...Peggy do visit here often, maybe we'll turn you into a Science Fiction fan like us.

Nellie

Hello!

I found Voice of the Planet at the library and am almost halfways through the book. It is very interesting to read and to find that Gaia's viewpoint on many things are different from what we would expect. Like her viewpoint on manmade polution; she just sees it as one more natural process. I think we don't see the things we humans do as natural processes because we don't see ourselves as part of nature. We either see nature as something to be cared for and protected or as something to be conquered and used. I do agree with her on that we are not using the land and growing things in the best way. I don't have a vegetable garden but do have a mixed flower garden with single plants or small groupings of the same plants all mixed up with each other. I went to this because I found the monoculture lawn type planting boring; and I had to fuss over it too much. I don't fuss over my garden and actually have fewer weeds than when I had grass. What I would love to do is to plant vegetables right in amongst the flowers; I think that could be really beautiful.

Speaking of the garden: if you go and visit my Home Page again, click on Pathways(bottom of Home Page) and you will find links to my new picture pages; there are two pages with pictures of the front garden, and one with pictures of my poodle Daisy.

Have started rereading Piers Anthony's Macroscope...again. I was looking in it because someone asked me about it, and before I knew it I was at chapter 3...It is such a fascinating book(at least to me).

see you later!

Nellie

Yes, me again! At this point I feel a little like I'm talking to myself. I know others are around...somewhere's.

Finished reading Voice of the Planet and while everything said in the book is certainly true, how many of us would be willing to take up a very primitive lifestyle with none of our creature comforts or our computers and our Internet? Not many, I'd say. I sure wouldn't! I found Gaia to be too changable in opinions for my taste; first polution doesn't matter to her, nature will survive in some form. Then suddenly polution is the worst thing ever and everything is being destroyed; a total turnaround from before. Book was sometimes on the raunchy side, that's nature for you, I guess.

Have now started reading the next library book: Up the Walls of the World by James Tiptree. Jr. It has some interesting characters both alien and human. More as I advance in the book...

Just finished reading the part of Macroscope that I like the best. It is grand and powerful when the characters use alien technology to shrink Neptune down to a singularity to use as a jumpgate to another part of the galaxy. The way the whole process is described is just wonderful. The macroscope-spaceship being embedded in the moon Triton, then the great alien machines pushing Triton out of orbit and spiralling it down into Neptune, right into the solid center. And two more machines change the ship to a gaseous state with all its contents and shrink Neptune to a singularity or black hole. Here's a few quotes from the section I just told about: "Now the immense field generators came into play elsewhere on Triton. Three new null-G collumns developed spearing out from the advance side like the prongs of the Neptune symbol. The athmosphere, augmented by cubic miles of rock pulverized into dust and voluminous byproduct polutants, rushed into the breach and shot outward in ten-mile diameter thrusts." Gives you some idea of what is happening and a good picture of it.

Must be on my way...Nellie

Nellie -

I, too, found Tobias' presentation of Gaia to be on the capricious side. But then, in reality, she does do some wild things what with her El Ninos, random earthquakes, etc.

Her lack of concern for our pollution surprised me, also. There and again that fits with her disinterest in whether our species can breath or not--she just wants new mutations of species to keep some form of life on the planet. I was impressed with her suggestion to somehow jettison our nuclear waste to the core of the planet to be recycled. Very clever! But, how to do that?

Peggy

Nellie: No, you are not talking to yourself. I'm looking in even if I don't say anything. And your comments are always most entertaining and thought provoking.

I'm still mulling over City. Being the romantic that I am, the decline of humankind was very disturbing, especially the Loper aspect. One reason I enjoy the post-holocaust type tale is the triumph-over-adversity theme. Simak was sounding an alarm, to be sure, but my fear is that there aren't enough who are paying attention. Gaia/Nature is an implacable force. And humans can be seen as equally iumplacable in their mad drive to dominate. Maybe it is this gloomy, rainy day that is affecting my mood. Sorry to be so down. Will post again soon.

Jackie: I thought you and Peggy were probably lurking around here and reading what I write. Rainy days do make one feel gloomy and sad at times, I do agree on that. And thinking of the demise of mankind can be sad too, even if he does leave behind intelligent dogs. But in City I don't think man is totally gone, he is only gone from Earth, but is still dwelling all over the galaxy.

Up the Walls of the World...some of the characters so far, and a bit of what is going on so far. There are three major groups of beings in this story: the nameless, giantic black cloud creature, who destroys whole solar sytems; a criminal among his kind; the Tyree, manta ray type beings who live in a world of violent winds; and a group of human telepaths. Among the Tyree(also the name of their world) the males take care of the young and the females have the more traditional male roles. They talk by using light and can pass some part of their personalties to others, to share memories and knowledge. They become involved with the humans when two of them Giadoc and Tivonel send their consciences into two humans. Tivonel is frightened by the fact that there is no wind and flees, followed by Giadoc. At the point I am now, the conscience exchange has been attempted again by Giadoc and another male named Terenc. And we are getting the viewpoints of the humans who suddenly find themselves in strange alien bodies in a very alien environment. The character I find most interesting is the doctor who helps out in the ESP experiments: Daniel Dann. He is very sceptical about the experiments, but I can tell from the way he feels everyone's pain, mental and physical, that he too has psi powers, though he won't admit it to himself. He is one of the people who ends up on Tyree.

More to come...Has any one read this book? It is not a new one, that I know.

Nellie.

Just read a new ( to me) Alan Dean Foster. This is another about Flynx and his flying snake. For some reason, they appeal to me. He is aging him up now and the boy is 19. Still a mystery as to why or who he is. Steph

Hello!

Stephanie: what is the name of the Alan Dean Foster book? I have most of his Flynx books but might be missing the latest ones. I have a lot of books by Foster. Besides the Flynx book my favorites are the Spellsinger series. Have you read any of those?

I finished Up the Walls of the World by Tiptree. A very enjoyable read! The book became very grand and powerful with the characters becoming disembodied intelligences and part of a larger intelligent creature with very godlike powers and abilities; the creature we first met at the beginning of the story, that was destroying all the suns and worlds. It turned out its motive was not evil but it and its people were making a fire break around the galactic center to prevent the total destruction of the galaxy.

Am also still reading Macroscope by Piers Anthony. Our intrepid galactic travellers are trying to reach the source of the mind destroyer and have discovered there is more than one. Also Ivo's alter ego Schon is trying to get control. Actually Ivo is a subset of Schon; that is Schon created the personality of Ivo when he became bored with life at age five. There is one problem, the Destroyer will destroy Schon's mind if he takes over because the memory of it is in their shared mind. At the point I am at now they have just jumped outside of the milky way galaxy and Anthony is beginning a beautiful description of our galaxy.

Just started another library book; a story set in Australia called the Drowned Towers...sorry name of author escapes me at moment and looking it up means running up and down stairs...so will give the name next time. Story involves rising waters due to icecap melting because of greenhouse effect. The towers of the title are giant tenements each of which held over 70,000 inhabitants; though at the start of the book they are deserted and being studied by archaeologists. It is books and writings they find in one of the apartments that leads into the next part of the book, the memories of people who lived just as the rising of the waters was beginning.

I'm going to say goodbye for now...Nellie

Nellie -

I'm trying to find Up the Walls of the World at our library . Is the author Tiptree? Is it a new book?

Peggy

Peggy: yes, the author is Tiptree and I don't think it is a new book, my library book is dated 1978 so that's quite a while back.

Boy! I was really off with my "Drowned Towers"...the book is "Drowning Towers" by George Turner and it was also published under the name "The Sea and Summer"; it's dated 1988. If you see this one at the library grab it! It is very good. Gives you lots of things to think about just like voice of the planet does. There are two classes of people in the story: the Sweets and the Swill. The Sweets are people who have a job and earn their income and the Swill are the majority who live off welfare because there are no jobs for them. There is also a small group called the Fringe which is made up of Sweets who have lost their jobs but still have savings or other income to live from. The story is mainly about a Sweet family who become Fringers and learn that the SWill are not the monsters they always were told they were but people much like themselves. When they first come to the Fringe area near the Towers they are taken under the wings of a Tower boss, who though married grows to love the widowed mother. And one of the most moving pieces in the book is when there is no more money all over the world because the world economy has broken down and the government gives out coupons that can only be used at a Swill store. While Billy, the Tower boss leads a terrified Alison, the widow, through the crowds milling around the bases of the Towers, she slowly begins to see that these are people just like her. And as the story goes on you learn that the Swill are not at all forgotten by the upperclass Sweets but are helped by them in many ways. There is an interesting remark made about revolutions, that though the poor may become involved it is well-off intellectuals who start revolutions and usually only after talking about it for years; he gives the French and Russian revolutions as examples. One of the characters says an interesting thing about the nature of authority; that authority should not just come from the threath of punishment but should involve understanding, correcting, be gentle, and be needed. There is also a discussion on population control. The point is made that in the end it does not work, and that preventing people from having children defeats the purpose of family and causes the breakdown of society.

I've given you lots to think about...so will go for now...have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Nellie

Nellie, I believe it is Flynx in Flux.. It is relatively new and I liked it. Some of the Spell Singers were better than others. I also loved Piers Anthony Mode series. I think I have read three so far and someone said recently there is another one out.. Making your heroine a suicidal teenage girl is a bit different, but Piers carries it off. He lives quite close to Orlando, although I have never met him. Steph

Merry Christmas from Jackie to Nellie, Peggy, Stephanie, and all you sci-fi fans!

Give Yourself The Gift of Reading!

And a bright good morning on what the British call "Boxing Day," in which small gifts are commonly given to friends! Here are TWO gifts for you this morning:

1). We've a new folder in the Books and Literature. Have you got some books at home you no longer have room for? List them with us, in the Book Exchange! There they will appear until somebody might want them....the entire cost: within the US, $1.25 book rate for up to a pound (that's a BIG BOOK)....

The Book Exchange

List what you have you'd like to see go to a good home. List what you've got. Let's share. I've put a few in the heading to start us off....Here's a chance to read some new ones for a dollar, and make some more room on your shelves!!

2) Starting on New Year's Day, the Book Club Online will begin a practice of having a contest (this one is guess the number: but wait till you see WHAT NUMBER??) and win a Book! (Many thanks to Marie Click for this clever idea)...This New Year's Day, the prize is the wonderful Road From Coorain the March Book Club Online selection about a childhood on a sheep farm in Australia. It's about dogged courage and determination. It's short, and well written, and explains those huge Austrailan farms. Do try, and join us there!!

So come look in, list or select a book, guess a number on New Year's Day in the Book Club Online, and a very merry season to you all!

Ginny

Hello All:

I hope everyone had a nice Christmas and received lots of new books to read and tell us about.

I finished Drowning Towers which ended on a very upbeat note in spite of the fact that the flooding due to global warming was getting worse. It turns out for one thing that most of the scientist come from the Swill ranks, and the Swill are seen as the hope of humanity by Sweet in the know who train the Swill how to survive and how to provide for the future. One character who is involved in this is Ted a son in the Sweet family previously mentioned, who goes from despising the Swill to being their champion and helper.

This book tells us an important thing, that even people we may have written off and look down upon can have a purpose and have dignity and meaning.

I have just begun reading Gordon R.Dickson's The Final Encyclopedia. Has anyone read it? Does anyone have any of Jack Chalker's books?

Nellie

HAPPY NEW YEAR SCI-FI FANS!

Movie critics on TV seem to be giving the movie, Postman, short shrift!

I find this incredible, as I thought the book was excellent. Maybe it's the 3hr length of the movie that is the problem--way too long for me to sit still!

Peggy

Peggy: I share your evaluation of the book. My son saw the movie and he and his friends disagreed with the critics. It is pretty faithful to the book, he said. The plot thickens rather more quickly, and the jeep incident is more dynamic, no doubt reflecting the action plot element as reconceptualized for the movie. My atention span is too short, these days, for such a long movie, also.

Nellie: Drowning Towers sounds like something I read in Analog years ago. Maybe it was published there in short segments. Right now I'm immersed in the Cheysuli saga. Plus, there was a new Darkover, Shadow Matrix, at the libary. My reading time is so short, I can't be as disciplined as you. Your comments arouse my curiosity and provide me with titles to look for.

To all you sci-fi readers, may you have more and better books to read in 98!

Am reading a wonderful Jack White.. Its in the series on the intergalactic hospital he does. Only this one is about a famous chef, who comes to make hospital food good. Hows that for a full time fairytale.. Steph

Happy 1998 everyone!

Jackie: Who wrote the Cheysuli saga you are reading and is the Shadow Matrix part of the Darkover series? I've never yet read any of the Darkover books though I have read other books by Marion Zimmer Bradley.(hope I have the right author). You may be right about Drowning Towers being serialized in Analog, it is an older book which I found at the library. I'm making lots more use of the library now that they make us pay $12 a year for the library card. I've discovered a new to me writer by name of M.J. Engh and just finished a good book by her called the Rainbow Man. More on that later...I don't think I'm that disciplined a reader; more a fast one. I do love it!

Stephanie: What is the name of the new Jack White you are reading? I thoroughly enjoy his "hospital" series and have quite a few of them. I find there is a lot of humor in them, though they often treat on serious subjects. I also think the series would make an excellent TV show, specially with all the advances in special effects as shown in Babylon 5(favorite show) and the Star Trek shows.

I wish to everyone the discovery of wonderful books and the fantastic worlds therein.

Nellie

Nellie: Jennifer Roberson writes the Chesuli series; Chesuli are "shapechangers". The first one was not terribly well written, though the story was riviting. Her writing improves with each one.

How have you avoided reading Darkover stories? I am surprised. You have such depth, but to have missed reading Darkover is like saying your've never heard the Beatles sing. Alright, I'm exagerating. Yes, Shadow Matrix is the latest in the Darkover line, and I can hardly wait for the next one.

Stephanie, I remember reading some books about an exotic hospital setting, and the author was named White, but I had no idea he was still writing them. The cantina scene in Star Wars made me feel right at home, after reading those books! Plus, I can't resist books about chefs. I don't suppose that he includes any recipes?

Are there any Callahan fans here? I love Spider Robinson stories, but the Callahan Crosstime Saloon series, or whatever its called, is so special. My whole family has read them; if some one says, "Sure and begonia" we break up.

Oh I do love Spider Robinson.. The bar sounds like such a nice place to be. I will get the name of the Jack White book.. Its at the store. I always have several books going and at least half are in the store at any given moment. I like the Cheysuli, and I adore Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover. Will look for the new one. Such a wonderful and complete world.. Dont like her other stuff much. Steph

Nellie: I take it back; you don't have to read Darkover to be a true sci-fi fan. My son won't read anything with swords!

Stephanie: While reading Shadow Matrix (Bradley) and Dragonseye (MacAffrey) back to back I was struck by the ease with which each milieu functions: food is always available, as is shelter, clothing, transportation. No effort is required by our heros and heroines, except for minor chores such as dragon riding and matrix manipulation. Wow, what a comedown to have to write my first-of-the-month checks for telephone, heat, light, shelter, etc. No wonder these books are so popular.

Well McCaffrey has done a few that do not follow on that pattern. The part of the series about Menolly ( the girl who plays the instruments.). She has trouble finding shelter and food. She did another about the people who did not have a keep and it was also about the necessities of life.. Bradley does not show much about day to day living.. But its still fun The James White book is "The Galactic Gourmet". Published by TOR and came out hard back 96, paper 97. Quite fun.. Has some interesting comments on what is important to people. Have not read either the McCaffrey or the Bradley yet. Generally wait until paper.. Steph

Stephanie: I wait for the paperbacks, also, except when I can find them at the library. Then I forget I've read tham, the paperback comes out, and I've spent my hard-earned money on another book I've already read! I'll have to round up some of the duplicates for the Book Exchange, won't I?

Will look for the Galactic Gournet. Thanks.

Happy Birthday, Stephanie!!

And Many More!!

Ginny

Hello? Operator, Hello? Is anybody there? Hello? Hello?

Oh, well, I'll talk to myself. Haven't had any SF to read lately; ran out of second-hand mysteries. All I have is the History bookclub selection, King of the Confessors. Interesting, but it is boring to have to read, over and over again, what a brilliant fellow Thomas Hoving is! Enough carping.

Operator? Hello?

Jackie -

I'm still here! Sci-fi selections at our library have been slim pickins of late. Off track somewhat, I just finished RAPTOR, by Gary Jennings--all 780 pages or so, and what a story he can weave.

Is UFO stuff every discussed in this group, do you know, i.e., Whitely Strieber, Zecharia Sitchen, etc.?

Peggy

Jackie I'm still coming around too. Sometimes I see no new posts and wait until someone else does one, so that if I was the last one to post I don't feel like I'm talking to myself, and sometimes I want to finish a book first.

Read A Million Open Doors by John Barnes. Very good! Another library book, I'm finding a lot of good books at the library lately. Another was Rainbow Man by J.M.Engh in which the rainbow man is not a man at all but a sterile woman who wears brightly colored clothing. She is a starshipper named Liss who comes to a very religious planet called Bimram where there are no laws only a few God given commandments to follow, and where the people wear dull colored clothes. Liss is considered a man because she cannot bear children. This causes problems for her when she falls in love and the object of her affections cannot reciprocate because she is of the same sex by Bimram defintion. The people of Bimram, even though they believe in God and his revealed word, have decided that they can't trust God to punish people for wrongdoing after death and hence choose certain people for either bliss or punishment. The people are chosen by Selectors. Liss thinks the whole process as being an abstract thing until she goes to the Selection Centre and sees first the people in Bliss, who are sleeping in cloudlike beds in beautiful rooms and look very happy in their sleep. Then she sees the horrors of Punishment where hundreds of people are layed out in rows on wooden tables, screaming in agony. And the Punished are only released from their pain by death which is delayed as long as possible. Even though she had planned to spend the rest of her life on Bimram Liss ends up leaving to take up the life of a starshipper again. There is an interesting point made in the book about the nature of star travel, that whatever place you leave you will never come back to the same place because of the time factor. The starships in the story do not have faster than light drives or even go at the speed of light, so people like Liss are born on board and may live out their lives on the journey. Engh's future universe is very different from the usual one with ships with warp drives and so forth. Perhaps her vision might be a lot more realistic. I can see spaceships that travel at sublight speeds more easily than one's that go faster than light.

Peggy: UFO books? I don't mind but the final decision would be up to our moderator Gary. The Raptor book sounds from the title to be interesting. Is it about dinosaurs as I might expect from the title? Have you read Aztec by the same author?(not SF I know)

Have a good evening everyone!

Nellie

You are there! Great! I must admit that this electronic correspondence has become very important to me. When no one is posting, I feel lonely. Silly me.

Raptor Red, by Bakker, was a great read about dinosaurs. I had no idea so many had read Aztec, also. Did anyone read Neanderthal? I forget the author. That was very provacative: a major premise was that Neanderthals (who did not develop speech, anatomical limitation, but should be as intelligent as homo sapiens) would be able to communicate. When a pocket of the N's is discovered, a handful of scientists go in to the remote valley to "study" them. It turns sort of melodrama-ish there, but still a good read.

Nellie, I just got Rainbow Man out of the library, looking forward to it. Have you read Arslan also? I also got an Elizabeth Vonarsdale. Brought home a mystery I've already read. Darn.

Please keep posting,folks. I promise to do so, even if it is to say I haven't read anything!

Nellie & Jackie -

Can't wait to see if our library has Rainbow Man!

Raptor, by Gary Jennings, is not about dinasours, but rather takes place in early Christian times. Jennings unique twist is that the man telling his story was born with both male and female plumbing! And Jennings weaves a tale like no other! It's incredibly long (the book must weight 10 lbs.), but is a good read.

I did indeed read Aztec, just recently. That's what got me on the Gary Jennings kick that I'm on. Now I'm reading his sequel, Aztec Autumn, which picks up where Aztec left off.

Jackie - I read Neanderthal also and found it remarkable. Might make a good movie.

Did either of you see the movie, Postman? Movie critics pretty much trashed it.

Peggy

Peggy: My son saw it. He liked it. The story was tweaked to rbing the conflict in sooner, for dramatic effect. The jeep incident was changed to a more active plot element, he said.

I didn't know there was a sequel to Aztec. I'll add that, and Raptor, to my list. Recently, on NPR, I heard an inteview about those poor folks whose gender identification at birth is ambiguous. Pitiful how the medical profession treats them and their families.

I work, right now, with the local AIDS Planning Council. The world of the homosexual, the transgender, etc., is no longer the same to me now that I know real people who have to live with these issues. One young fellow, just began work as a clerk in our office, was relating his painful experience in "coming out" to his family; they were supportive and loving to him, but he suffered before the fact for his secret. He is HIV+, but is not able to receive some of the benefits under the Ryan White CARE Act since he doesn't have AIDS! This job has been stressful because of long hours and not enough staff. That's getting better, but I've decided to move on to something else, I feel burnt out.

I loved the book.. "Postman", but generally wont read the star turns type of movie. Costner just does not leave stuff alone. I have been reading some Mercedes Lackey.. Some of her stuff is silly, but just read one about a Indian detective in the future that was really quite nice. Steph

Steph: What's the name of that Indian detective book? Sounds like a blend of my two favs, sci-fi and mystery.

Nellie: Just finished Rainbow Man. Wow! What a lot of story she packs in 250+ pages. And such powerful stuff. Tepper's Gate to Women's Country affected me as deeply, although not as viscerally. Also, Ursula K LeGuin's Left Hand of Darkness. LeGuin's book about a collective society was also deeply moving; I felt, for the first time, I had a real glimmer of what it would be like to live that way. Thanks for telling us about this book.

Jackie & Peggy

I'm here! Just for short visit mind you. Jackie I'm hoping to find other books by Engh at the library; if Rainbow Man is anything to go by she is an excellent writer.

Found a couple of new paperbacks to add to the collection. One is a new Pern story Dragonseye and the other is a new Xanth story Yon Ill Wind. I'm looking forwards to reading both. Also got a book by an author I'm not familiar with Susan R. Matthews called Prisoner of Conscience. The book blurb makes the story sound as intreging as Rainbow Man...will have to read it first to find out...will let you know what it is like.

I won't see The Postman until it comes out on tape as I'm not much of a movie goer; simply no fun to go alone and with having type 2 diabetes I often have to dash to the toilets at the most inopertune times. With a tape I can just hit the pause button and then I don't miss anything.

It is nice to see all the posts here, usually I don't see any and then I don't know if I should just post, but feel like I'm talking to myself if the previous post was mine too. Or I have visions of lurkers saying 'look at this woman, she sure has a lot to say' and at rate I'm going here they'll wonder what I mean by long since I said this was going to be short.

Nellie

Will try and find the Mercedes Lackey title . Sold it right away the day I finished it.Generally do in the store since my customers always love to see what I am reading. Engh is a new one.. If you like Sheri Tepper, you will love Elizabeth Von Arsburgh. She is french canadian, so we are reading in translation, but she makes me want to be in her special world.. A New Pern..BOY OH BOY.. I DO LOVE PERN. Steph

Nellie: Your posts are never long enough for me. And I've not only seen it, but done it - two posts back-to-back. Remember, it is one thing to be a lert, we always need more lerts! But leave the lurkers to fend for themselves.

Stephanie: Von Arsburgh is slowly drawing me into her net. I'm bouncing now between her, Lewis and Clark's expedition (for the History Book Club - just finished the Hoving book) and Dick Francis. I'm beginning to sound a little like Nellie!

Jackie, I am always reading more than one book. Just now, am working on some short stories in mysteries. Julia Child's biography, a collection of interviews of women on being in their sixties and an Island cookbook.Its much more fun that way.Steph

Have you s-f readers looked in on "Book Review Publication"? Imagine writing a knock-your-socks-off review for a great book, then pairing it with a great recipe, your own or another SeniorNetter's. Sounds like fun on both ends, submitting and consuming (in all senses of the word). Check it out!

Not too much time tonight...will look in on Book Review Publication, sounds interesting.

Haven't gotten too far into Prisoner of Conscience as yet, so far it involves an inquisitor who works for an organization called the Bench. When the story begins he is reasigned to work at a prison where new prisoners are processed into the legal system. The prisoners he has to work with are prisoners of war and not criminals, and his duty is to find out information using torture. That is as far as I've gotten but it promises to be a good thought provoking book.

Not reading much fiction in last while; I'm trying to study my Visual Basic and Visual C++ programming and so am immersed in my text books and armed with a highlighting pen to mark important passages.

Am almost through The Final Encyclopedia by Dickson for second time around. I can't really get into the main character for some reason. Sometimes there are books which have good stories but the character who is the major part of it just misses something that makes him or her a fully rounded human. I suppose this could be caused by the fact that the character is more than human. I can't feel for Hal Mayne at all...too perfect...maybe that's it. Dickson has some interesting ideas about the whole human race evolving as if it were one single organism.

will say goodnight to all...Nellie

Nellie: What fun! I don't know those languages, but I took FORTRAN 20 years ago. Programming, tome, was like solving a puzzle. Using symbols (words, punctuation marks, etc.) to make the computer jump through my hoops. I'm still struggling to get to learning HTML. But I just found ZD University, which may be an answer of sorts.

Hello everyone:

I found Arslan by J.M.Engh at the library and am deep into reading it. In Arslan, I think Engh has come up with one of the spookiest characters ever; a suicidal megalomanic madman who plans to rid the world of human kind. But in some strange way he is both cruel and just or fair at the same time. He punishes infractions of his imposed rules instantly, but the punishment is never more than what is necesary. It will be interesting to find out what the resistance is planning to do and if they will succeed in it.

Also found Wheel of the Winds by Engh but have not yet started reading it. Had a good haul at the library, besides the two books by Engh, I found Icarus Descending by Elizabeth Hand, and a new Pohl...title escapes me...something eternity...don't feel like going downstairs to look it up...lazy me.

Prisoner of Conscience is certainly interesting with a society that is totally based on the legal system. The whole society is called the Bench and it is run by judiciaries which issue Writs which allow the recipients or holders to carry out the actions indicated in the Writ, but no more. The main chracter in the story is Andrej Koscuisko(I won't worry about the spelling) who holds a permanent Writ that allows him to put prisoners of the Bench to "the question" which carries the same meaning as it did during the time of the Spanish Inquisition, namely to get people to confess under torture. He has just arrived at the prison to begin his new job and discovers that one of the prisoners has been tortured without benefit of a Writ. He doctors the poor man and gives orders that he will be free from future torture. Andrej is also a medical doctor because he must keep his victims alive, unless ordered to do otherwise.

So I've got some very good books going...ones that make one think and have main characters that are not so likable, at first that is. I don't think I could ever like Arslan but Andrej K. inspite of his job, I could like...

night all...Nellie

Attention, Spider Robinson fans: I just picked up User Friendly. Brand new paperback. More later.

Hi All -

I'm having problems finding Rainbow Man, by Engh, or anything else by this author. There is a The Rainbow Man, by Ted Pollock, which I just brought home. Seems to be about biological weapons, an odd coincidence since I'm also reading The Cobra Event, by Richard Preston, and it, too, is about chemical and biological weapons. Extremely scarey!

Peggy

Oh Jackie, I do so love Spider Robinson. Tell us more. I have been rereading "Renegades of Pern" since I know there is a new Pern and I was trying to put all of the Pern pieces together. She writes different books of the same period. Main characters become peripheral at times.. Needed to catch up. I can never finish an Engh.. Just too too something for me. Steph

Stephanie: I'm disappointed; the Spider Robinson is short stories instead of a novel. I hunger for denser stuff. Do you like Sherri S Tepper? The last one I read, Gibbon's Decline and Fall, was dense. She writes mysteries as B J Orde and also as Oliphant, can't remember the first name.

Nellie: My first Darkover book, more that 20 years ago, was Heritage of Hastur. I devoured it and all others I could find. Then I discovered Anne McAfrey (?). At times I prefer Pern novels, others I'm in the mood for Darkover.

My son and I fight over the latest Lois McMasters Bujold. We all used to read Stainless Steel Rat; those were fun.

Later ...

Are Spiders short stories about the Bar? They are truly enormously funny. I like Tepper and did not know she wrote mysteries.. Will look them up in the store. I believe I have read B.J. Oliphant. I like both McCaffrey and Bradley. However Bradley seems to have gone off on a long tangent on the Arthur legend, etc. Get the feeling she is bored with Darkover.. McCaffery on the other hand,,seems to never tire of her worlds. I am really passionate about the Brain ships.. Such a neat idea for all of those people trapped in useless bodies. Steph

Hello!

Stephanie: is your favorite story of the "brain" ships "The Ship Who Sang"? It is my favorite and brings such tears to my eyes that I usually have to stop reading because I can't see any more. I also enjoy McCaffrey's series with the telepathic family.

I like the books with some depth to them too. Finished Arslan yesterday. Was a very well written book with the two alternating narrators, each of whom was affected by Arslan in a different manner. One is Frank the school principal who becomes leader of the town underground and at the end grudgingly begins to like Arslan. The other is Hunt who is taken as a young boy, very cruelly treated and grows to love his captor (there's a phycological term for that I think) Surprisingly Arslan becomes a likable character in spite of his cruel, high handed ways. That's what I call good character development on the part of Engh, that she can make you feel something other than dislike for a not very likable character. She makes Arslan human with faults and virtues. And the things he orders done such as no electric power plants or factories, and each area having to be self sufficient do make the world into a simpler and perhaps better place. His second plan of ridding the world of humanity by making women sterile through a viral disease does not seem to work because at the end of the book there is news from another town that someone is pregnant.

The new Pohl is called Siege of Eternity and is a follow up on another book. So now I'll have to find the first book too. It has an intreging start with a group of people who came back from a spacestation with strange alien implants in there heads, and at the point I've reached now they've had a message from the station from the same people who are already back on earth.

Hope everyone is keeping in good health!

Nellie

Oh my yes, I do cry each time for The Ship who Sang, but McCaffrey does admit that she wrote it after the death of her father to help her grieve. I like fully realized universes in Sci-fi. Not entirely strange, just somewhat different. I also like to laugh and some of the Science fiction writers are truly very very funny. Robert Aspirin makes me laugh and I hate puns,, but love his.

Nellie: You write so well, I would love to see your review of Rainbow Man in "Our Book". Every book you post sounds like I must read it.And your views held up when I did read one you had described.

Another author whose books I like who has developed a well realized universe is Ursula LeGuin. My favorite book of her's is The Left Hand of Darkness and second choice would be The Dispossessed both of which take place in the same milleu.

Jackie: I'm trying to think what kind of recipe would fit in with The Rainbow Man...hmm.

short today...haven't read much in fiction but more in programming texts...finally got the "reader" program to read the instruction book on the Visual C++ CD-ROM; I couldn't get it to install from the CD, so I downloaded from the 'net...where there's a will there's a way, as they say.

'night all...Nellie

Has anyone tried L.E.Modisetts latest series, The Spellsinger? His previous books are somewhat low key but his character development is superb and by the end of a book you feel like you know the individual and the society they are in. I may even break my usual rule and buy his second in this series in hardback!

Brian: Welcome. Sounds like I have a new author for my list! Thanks.

Hello all:

Welcome to our little group Brian!

I too am adding Modisett to my library list. Can you tell us a little more about the series? And which other authors you enjoy reading? As you might have noticed I'm the one who goes on at great lengths about the books I read; sometimes too lengthy I think.

Started a new Engh book, The Wheel of the Winds: she has a really different world there; an earthlike planet which does not rotate, so that one area is always in light and the other in total darkness. The whole planet is covered by a thick layer of clouds so that the most that is seen of the sun is a brightening of the cloud layer. The main characters are: Lethgro, the warden of a prison, Repnomar, the female captain of a ship called the Mouse, and the Exile, an alien who escapes from the prison and ends up leading Lethgro and Repnomar on an epic journey of discovery. The journey starts with them sailing the Mouse across the river Sollet and finding there is another side - which no one was certain of - and that the other shore is an awful place with midges so thick people cannot breathe and pirates. They escape from both and travel on down the river which becomes more and more narrow. The ships part of the journey ends at the edge of a giant waterfall, where the crew remains on an island and Lethgro, Repnomar and her dog Broz, and the Exile continue on by hang-gliding over the falls. At the point of the sory where I am now they have come through marshes of reeds, gone into the dark and climbed a mountain to get to the Exile's possessions; the Exile has disappeared and they have been taken prisoner by beings they call the Crystal people...

Nellie

Hello, Folks:

Nellie, what an exciting story! That one is definitely on my library list. I'll probably read Arslan eventually, but this one sounds more appealing.

Stephanie: My daughter lent me Mercedes Lackey's Sacred Ground; it is about an Osage woman who has the Medecine Power. Her grandfather is teaching her its use. She is a Private Detective in contemporary Tulsa. Her medecine power allows her to enter the spirit world; she uses this gift and other parts of her talent in her investigations. I recently learned that I am one-eighth Creek so am triply interested. Thanks.

Hello:

First I was not going to post here today...but changed my mind. I won't say more about Wheel of the Winds so that you can find out what happens further...Whoops! a booboo, Crystal people was supposed to be Quicksilver people - don't know where my mind wanders off to at times. I have only found three books by Engh in the library so she did not write very many. And each one is different on a different theme which really makes you think. Wheel of the Winds is of a less serious nature than Arslan, or Rainbow Man; and the theme is more hidden in the background. The theme of this book is: what happens when a technologically superior people meet with a less technologically advanced people and how do you prevent that from happening. The Exile is a member of a technologically advanced race who came to the planet to set up probes to study the weather and never meant to stay or become involved with the natives. And although he does not have any of his technology with him, he nevertheless has a great effect on the lives of the people he comes in contact with; because by travelling with him they learn new ways of looking at their world. And here I wasn't going to say more about the book...!

Nellie

Nellie: Started Wheel. The Exile is still shadowy, vague, but his presence has produced extraordinary effects in the others. The glimpses of the life of the planet are more provactive because of their lack of definition! What talent this writer has. But only three books, each one unique. I would like to know more about her. I wonder if Locus has a web site?

Jackie, I did love Sacred Ground.. Wanted another right away and she has not written any on that theme since. Darn..Just finished Freedoms Landing by McCaffrey.. Somehow it escaped my notice until now. What an interesting premise for a series.. And it certainly sounds like a beginning to me.. Dont care.. Liked the developement very much.

I guess since I use sci-fi and fantasy as an escape mechanism I'm always drawn back to authors like Eddings, Angus Wells, and "the Rat". Some like Slan I've reread so many times I can almost repeat them word for word. Being brought up on the "juvenile" Heinlein,EE Smith and John Campbell has probably warped me for the rest of my life but I still enjoy them. The more modern genre of twisted psychologies and agonizing interpersonal relationships remind me too much of what I retired to get away from so they hold little interest for me. Anyway Modesitt has written about 20 plus books, the most notable series of which are about Recluce, black ordered magic and white chaotic magic. Fun reading.

Hello:

Jackie: What I liked a lot about Wheel is that you find out things as the characters find them out. So you are learning about the planet with them. Let us know if you find any Web site about Engh, too bad she seems to have written so few books. The only thing it says about her in the book is that she lives in Washington state; but that was in 1988 when the book was published.

Brian: I've read E.E.Smith's Lensman series dozens and dozens of times. Have you by any chance read Glen Cook's Black Company series?

Read a powerful piece of writing in Prisoner of Conscience last night. Very emotionally draining. The main character Andrej has five bondslaves who work as his bodyguards and aides. Bondslaves are criminals who are under the control of a computer chip installed in their brain which keeps them loyal to their "master". They serve sentences of varying lengths according to the crimes they have commited and one way of getting out of a sentence is if they are hurt in the process of doing their duties and it would take lots of time and money to heal them, then they can claim the Day and elect suicide. But only the "master" can grant "The day". Anyway, one of Andrej's bondslaves is deathly injured in a bombing attack as they are going to the new prison and he asks Andrej for The Day, and it is so hard for Andrej to grant his wish for Andrej has grown to deeply care for all his bondslaves over the years but this one especially; but he does grant the wish and is the one who finally puts Losien(Not sure of this name) out of his pain and misery and gives him the freedom of death.

Finished Pohl's Siege of Eternity but I think I'll have to find the first book of the series to grasp better all of what was going on...and so much was going on, almost too much at times. I sometimes lost track. And interest in a way. Couldn't feel any emotional attachment to any of the characters in the book. I do like technology but it is the characters I grow to care for in a book that make the story for me.

Nellie

Prisoner sounds quite interesing. Will Put it on my list for sure. The lensman comment brought back so many memories. I did love the lensman.. Of course when I was a teen.. I also adored the Gor series.. Loved the C.S. Lewis series.. Perelandra, etc. did not know they were allegories until much later than the original read. Ah to be discovering them again. I went to space with Robert Heinlen and reveled in the original Dune..

I remember the first time I saw Star Wars. Went with my daughter. I was so caught up in the movie, seeing those wonders treated so matter of factly, I was on a high for days. Driving home, we couldn't remember if there was any music on the soundtrack! Suddenly, my guilty secret love of s-f bacame respectable. Til then, reading Analog each month gave me a feeling of community - those wonderful letters. Ah, youth.

Brian, do you read Bujold? Her Vor series is exciting.

Jackie, loved every one of them. I continue to wonder what pickle Miles Vorkosigan is going to get into and what sneaky trick he will use to extricate himself. I hope more are coming. I imagine the authors get somewhat bored but I don't. I still enjoy the puns in the Xanth series and the author keeps saying "this is the last one". At least until the next one.

Nellie: I did a people search. Locus listed her as Mary Jane Engh (she was born in 1933, so she could be posting on SN). Then, I searched in Washington state; there is a listing for Mary Jane Engh in Garfield, Washington. When I looked at email listings, no match.

Hello all my fellow SF fans:

It is getting busy here, I'm not used to seeing four posts at one time and only a day missed by me. Great!

Jackie: too bad you couldn't find an e-mail address for Mary Jane Engh. Maybe she's not on the 'net, or just keeping her e-mail private. I laughed when you said "she might be posting at SN" and thought she'd get a real kick out of all my raving about her books. I would have loved to have sent her an e-mail though. Was a snail mail address available or just the name of the town? I would like to tell her how much I've enjoyed reading her books. Wonder if there are more?

Started reading the new Xanth book "Yon Ill Wind" The hero is the demon(Xanth)-sorry can't do it the way it should be- in the form of a dragon ass named Nimby and the heroinne is Chlorine, and her magic is poisoning things in water. A most promising beginning.

I used to do a lot of illustrative drawings when I read the Lensman series; just for my own pleasure. Haven't done anything like it for a long time. Another book I liked illustrating was Merwyn Peake's Gormenghast. The characters in that book are so picturesque. I thought of this because I found my pictures and the comic strip I used to write and draw...SF of course. About a group of young people who go for a hike in the mountains and end up transported to an immense alien spaceship named Starfire. It is so interesting to find old things one did in one's younger days, isn't it?

Bought the last of the Space Odyssey series by Clarke: Odyssey 3001.

Time to go...hope to see lots of posts when I return.

Nellie

Nellie: I sent her address to you via email. Hope it works better this time. Keep us posted.

Hi, folks: Have you been in the SN Library lately? Ginny is saying such nice things about us - how well-read we are. I am just following behind Nellie's excellent book reviews; she makes them sound irresistible. Irresistable? Where is the spell checker?

Jackie: Got your e-mail. Haven't been able to get on site here for a couple of days. Always seem to have that problem on the weekends.

No review today. I just came back from the library with a stack of fresh books that look very interesting and I think promise to be good.

Legacies by Alison Sinclair
Evolution's Shore by Ian McDonald
Vector Analysis by Haldeman
Eternity Road by Jack McDevitt

Has anyone read any of those books? I'm going to start on Legacies because it intregues me the most. And I'm always reading all my other books in the reading pile. There must be another book coming up in the Hyperion series by Simmons because I'm getting close to the end of Endymion and it doesn't seem like the story will be in any way resolved in the chapters that remain.

Nellie

Happy Valentine's Day too all SeniorNet s-f readers!

Just had an interesting book come in the store.. The Goldcamp Vampire ( or some such) by Elizabeth Scarborough. I do like her very much, Her Brownwyn series is a wonder to behold, so will try this one. Steph

Nellie & Stephanie: Five new books for my list! I'm falling behind, guys.

I'm not getting much reading done with the Olympics being on. Did finish Vector Analysis by Haldeman. A not bad story about an alien disease on a research space station. Also finished Endymion and I think there definitely will be another book in the series. Have to see if one is out already. Bought Gibson's Decline and Fall by Tepper, so another book to add to my reading pile.

Nellie

The Goldcamp Vampire turns out to be the second in a series. The first was something like The Dragon of Draco, Texas. It is very funny, a parody of the old victorian type novels and has so far... coffins being carried all over Alaska during the gold rush. A mysterious illness that people are laying off on mosquitos, A mountie dying from a mist and what seems to be a beginning werewolf.. Hows that for complications.. The heroine is triumphant throughout however. Only half done.. Steph

Hello all:

Have you ever started reading a book that you just could not get into? From the cover blurb Legacies by Alison Sinclair sounded like a really good book; but when I started reading I didn't catch my interest at all. For one thing there was no character I could be sympathetic to; the character doesn't have to be likable necesarilly but should catch my interest and hold it enough that I'm willing to find out what happens next. Only read about four chapters and decided that I couldn't give a hoot what happened next in the story and quit reading it.

I am enjoying Eternity Road by Jack Mcdevit. The whole premise of the story is inventive with our civilization existing only in the ruins of our cities and the highways; and our descendants call us the Roadmakers. Two or three hundred years before the story takes place in twenty odd something most of the worlds human population died out in a terrible plague, and the decendants of the few survivors live in an old pioneer type society. The story is about a small group of people who set out from near the Mississippi river in the south to travel north to find a place called Haven where it is believed all the books and knowledge of the Roadmakers has been hidden away.A group has gone before and only one member of that group returned and he never told what had happened or if they had found Haven. Upon his death it is found out that he had a complete print copy of Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, which he willed to the heroinne of the tale Chaka whose brother died on the first trip. It is she who decides a second trip to look for Haven should be undertaken, if only to find out what happened to the others who did not return. With her go Avila a lapsed priestess, Quait, Silas the scholar, Jon Hanson a guide, and Flojian the son of the first party's only survivor. At the point I'm at now only Chaka, Quait, and Flojian are still alive; the other members having been killed in various accidents;Silas by falling off a windy bridge, Jon in an explosion, and Avila in a fight with river pirates. After the last death Chaka is determined that they should turn back home but a meeting with a hologram of Mark Twain in an old theatre changes her mind.

more later...Nellie

Hi, Nellie, Stephanie, et al. Just wanted to say HI! Haven't been reading sf lately; it is so hard to find goodies. I'm poor, besides, so have been digging into the Lynch Library which is mostly mysteries. When I moved out of my house, I got rid of lots of books: 40 boxes with approx 60 books per box, so no longer have my sf treasures of yore. Too hard to haul around when home is an apartment. Housing here is expensive, and the vacancy rate is less than 2%. Throw in two cats, and ...

Thanks to all of you I have some great new titles to look forward to reading.

Hi - another sci fi lover! Enders Game by Orson Scott Card is my favorite book and I also loved Dune and Chapter House Dune. Read all the Dune books, of course, and liked them but those two I liked the best. Absolutely love the Darkover series. I could live there! I just noticed that those are very different kinds of stories. Interesting.

Loved the Gray Lensman series, and I liked the Gap Cycle by Stephen Donaldson. Love Mercedes Lackey and Julian May. Intervention was fascinating. I like Greg Bear, Donald Brin and Roger Zelazny - especially his Amber series.

Who is the knife fighter who wonders all around the Universe looking for the planet Earth? I can't think of his name but the books are very interesting. I read them two decades ago and would like to re-read one and see if I would still be intrigued. There are many of them and there is a network of intelligences - brains - who are pursuing him and want to make him a part of the network. He is always escaping from them and going to a new planet and a new adventure.

I'll be back later. Glad to have discovered this site. Hope someone knows my knife fighter!

Nellie, The McDevitt looks really interesting. i am reading an old Pohl.. Books at work and cannot remember the title. About returning an earth boy to the earth. He was orphaned in space and has never been anywhere but on the alien ship. Has started like gangbusters. We shall see. The knife fighter does not ring bells... Your not talking about the Gor series are you?

A very hearty welcome to Babette9 to our little group of SF afficionados. You like all the same authors I do. At the moment I'm reading Greg Bear's Queen of Angels for the second time. I read a book really fast the first time because I just have to know what happens next, and then I put it aside for as much as a year or more and then read it again but slowly to get all the things I might have missed. A really well written book or series of books can take a lot of re-reading without ever losing freshness because I am always discovering new aspects. Or the characters become like old friends that I like to visit again.

Stephanie: you are reading Pohl's Homecoming, yes that one is good but then I like Pohl and have a lot of his books. You must be asking by now whose books I don't have as I seem to have every SF writer under the sun represented in my home library. McDevitt's Eternity Road is enjoyable and a book with a happy ending. But won't say more since it is more fun to read a book when you don't know the actual details of how it ends; and I'm hoping you'll get the chance to read it.

Jackie: reading about you having to get rid of all those books sent a "frison" up my spine. That would just about kill me, I think. Actually I once had my whole book collection, and it is as large as yours was, with me in a one room bachelor apartment and I also had 30 birds but no dog or cat. And yes there was room for me and other furniture besides bookcases LOL

Good book! Ian McDonald's Evolution's Shore. I'm trying to find out if there are sequels since the book ends in midair so to speak in that many of my questions are not answered. This book has some of the most alien and advanged technologies ever. Living nanomachines that make immense structures using existing materials. These machines land in various places on the earth as meteorites and grow immense alien structures that remind people of coral reefs. The machines also alter Saturn's moon Hyperion into what becomes an immense cylindrical spaceship in orbit around the earth. It is also the story of Gaby a newswoman who is fascinated by and later obsessed with the alien growth and tends to pass over the line of fair play when it comes to getting a story. But the reason I think there must be more books on the same story is because it stops just as humans are beginning to explore the "spaceship" and to interact with what is called the "Chaga" on earth.

Nellie

Yes Nellie, the title is Homegoing by Pohl.. Am three quarters through and just enthralled. I had forgotten how much I always enjoyed Pohl. Have several McDevitts in store, but not Eternity.. Steph

Hi, fellow s-fer's. Check out the new folder, Book Groups Tour of New York. Sounds fabulous! I'm going to try to make it. My daughter has already mentioned that she would like to see a Rangers game. I hope they are in town then. Gretsky! Wow!

Just a quick hello: I have a number of books in progress such as the new Xanth "Yon Ill Wind" and the last of the Space Odyssey books. Am almost finished with Prisoner of Conscience and will comment more on this one after I am done reading it. Very different and good.

Nellie

Nellie, et al.: There is a discussion in the History folder about patriotism, WWII style, and how we have changed from those innocent days. Those people have not read much s-f, or they would know that thousands of scenarios have been played out in its pages, and permutations beyond count have been described. I think that the serious study of s-f, which surely we have been embarked on for lo these 20, 30, 40 years, allows us to have a longer view of the vicissitudes of the present. It gives me a measure of comfort; I do not seriously believe that Homo Sapiens will destroy itself, although I can believe in a deadly plague, or a comet hitting the earth, etc. I hope we are learning the futility of war, even though there are probably more than two hands of wars going on right this minute.

Oh, dear, I'm on my soapbox again, aren't I? Sorry.

Water on the Moon

(Comments and challenges are welcome. I'll probably need to respond with a shrug and an "I don't know", but others might have ideas worth considering.)

The news media widely reported on March 6, 1998 that scientists say there is evidence that frozen water exists on the Moon. The water is scattered in craters over vast spans of the Moon's north and south poles.

The report goes on to say that "Rather than being entirely a dry wasteland... the Moon may have enough water, in the form of small ice crystals mixed in loose dirt, to sustain lunar colonies and provide fuel for rockets exploring the solar system.

**

IMO, the *Water on the Moon* discovery has the potential to further justify a permanent space station in Earth orbit, and to encourage multinational programs for robotic and manned voyages to Mars and beyond. Humankind, in general, has accepted such ventures as seemingly in its destiny, and has committed vastly of its intellectual and material resources toward these objectives. Whether interplanetary manned voyages are made and human colonies materialize among the planets during the first or last century of the Third millennium, or in the Fourth or a subsequent millennium, it is of no real consequence; what is important is that the gears are in mesh and turning.

**

From the mid-'70s into the early '90s my efforts to *write* included a sf story that may be relevant to the above: For my story, I speculated how space habitats which were constructed by and colonized by Earth citizens from diverse and inherently competing societies might organize themselves to interact and collaborate peacefully in the attainment of common infrastructure objectives, to develop commerce and, generally, to meet mutual and vital needs for human survival in the extraordinary hostile environment of interplanetary space. For their societies to evolve in an orderly manner, what might be their principles of governance?

**

I learned, in the late 1980s, that governance of space societies of the future had been a study project conducted under the auspices of the Smithsonian Institution. The study group represented a broad array of disciplines and interests including engineering, biomedicine, law, economics, psychology, bioethics, philosophy, etc.

The Smithsonian study group's report, as I recall, was issued during the bicentennial of the United States Constitution and included a *Declaration of First Principles for the Governance of Outer Space Societies* I corresponded with the Smithsonian and they provided me with a copy of the Declaration. I used as a stepping stone toward drafting *principles* to support my vision of societies in the far distant future in which my story was set. For those interested, the draft my *Declaration* follows the Smithsonian's study group's *Declaration*, which I quote:

Quote: Smithsonian study's title: "Declaration of First Principles for the Governance of Outer Space Societies"

Preamble

On the occasion of the Bicentennial of the Constitution of the United States of America and in commemoration and furtherance of its values, we the undersigned petitioners,

Bearing witness to the exploration and inevitable settlement of outer space;

Recognizing the universal longing for life, liberty, equality, peace and security;

Expressing our unshakable belief in the dignity of the individual;

Placing our trust in societies that guarantee their members full protection of the law, due process and equal protection under the law;

Reaffirm our faith in fundamental freedoms;

Mindful, as were our nation's founders, of the self-evident truth that we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights;

Recognizing the responsibility of a government to protect the rights of the governed to exist and evolve;

Do assert and declare in this petition the intrinsic value of a set of First Principles for the Governance of Outer Space Societies and, at the beginning of this third century of nationhood under our Constitution, resolutely urge all people of the United Sates of America to acknowledge, accept and apply such First Principles as hereinafter set forth.

ARTICLE I

A. The rule of law and the fundamental values embodied in the United States Constitution shall apply to all individuals living in outer space societies under United States jurisdiction.

B. Appropriate constraints upon and limitations of authority shall be defined so as to protect the personal freedom of each individual, such as the right to reasonable privacy, freedom from self-incrimination, freedom from unreasonable intrusion, search and seizure, and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment .

C. Toward this end, the imperatives of community safety and individual survival within the unique environment of outer space shall be guaranteed in harmony with the exercise of such fundamental individual rights of speech, religion, association, assembly, contract, travel to, in and from outer space, media and communications, as well as the rights of petition, informed consent and private ownership of property.

D. The principles set forth here should not be construed to exclude any other such rights possessed by individuals.

ARTICLE II

A. Authority in outer space societies, exercised under principles of representative government appropriate to the circumstances and degree of community development, shall reflect the will of the people of those societies.

B. All petitions to the United States Government from outer space societies under its jurisdiction shall be accepted and receive prompt consideration.

C. The United States shall provide for an orderly and peaceful transition to self-governance by outer space societies under its jurisdiction at such times as their inhabitants shall manifest clearly a belief that such transition is both necessary and appropriat

D. In response to aggression, threats of aggression or hostile actions, outer space societies may provide for their common defense and for the maintenance of essential public order.

E. Outer space societies shall assume all rights and obligations set forth in treaties and international agreements, relevant to the activities of such societies, to which the United States is a party and which further freedom, peace and security.

F. The advancement of science and technology shall be encouraged in outer space societies for the benefit of all humanity.

G. Outer space societies shall protect from abuse the environment and natural resources of Earth and space.

UNQUOTE

**

(My story was set about two millennia into the future. Adversarial relationships prevailed among independents nation-states beyond the Asteroids, and there was unrestrained competition among space colonies for vital nonrenewable industrial minerals of which accessible reserves were approaching depletion. Battle fleets roamed the Outer Regions and a war had been fought. It was reasonable that I (as author) offer the antagonists a *peace treaty* in the concluding episodes. My "peace treaty," I felt, had to be compatible with the Smithsonian's *Declaration* of the distant past. I titled my draft "A Declaration of Principles to Govern Relations Among the Nations of the Solar System". The Declaration states:

QUOTE

Preamble

In order to:

Create and foster an environment that will bring to an end gestures of belligerency, and acts of violence and aggression between and among the Nations of the Solar System;

Establish the framework for peaceful coexistence within which all Nations in Space will respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity, and political independence of each other;

Recognize the mutuality of interests among all peoples and Governments of the Solar System in sharing the benefits of (the story's unique method to replenish it vital industrial minerals),

and

Prepare ourselves for expanding the human experience into a new Interstellar Era;

We agree to the following:

Text

ARTICLE ONE. We reject and renounce economic and military aggression and acts of war, and the threat of economic and military aggression and war to attain National objectives. We will settle all disagreements and disputes through peaceful means.

ARTICLE TWO. We affirm that all human beings in all nations, states, colonies, settlements, communities, howsoever they may be designated now or in the future throughout the Solar System and, eventually throughout the Interstellar Realms, share a common physiological origin and therefore, unity. Their harmony is such that none are truly independent of the others.

ARTICLE THREE. We affirm the Solar System is the common heritage of Humankind, and all of the resources of the Solar System, now and in the future, are part of that heritage. We agree that each Government representing the people of a planet or satellite, or a legally constituted collective of planets and satellites, is entitled to its share of the natural resources which are indigenous to the Solar System or which were acquired from Interstellar Regions. Such resources will be available, proportionate to entitlement, from the Common Reserve in conformance with a member Nation's verifiable needs and its administrative and technical capabilities to utilize the substances for peaceful and constructive purposes.

MORE

ARTICLE FOUR. In furtherance of ARTICLE ONE, we most solemnly declare the retention of organized military forces by any Government of the Solar System can serve no useful purpose. We manifestly recognize that the existence of military weapons, systems, and facilities increase the likelihood of their utilization to resolve international and political differences or jurisdictional disputes, with consequent destruction of human lives, properties, and civilizations. We, individually and collectively, agree, without reservations except for the EXCLUSION stated in this ARTICLE, to the phased reduction of all military spacecraft, weapons, facilities, personnel training systems, and other supporting systems and technologies to the point of their complete elimination not more than five Solar Standard Years from the date affixed to this Declaration.

EXCLUSION

We exclude from these accords those spacecraft, weapons, facilities, personnel, training systems, and their supporting systems and technologies that are, or will be, required by a legally and democratically constituted Government to exercise normal internal constabulary powers and authority on, and in space contiguous to, their planet, satellite or region, and between and among planets and satellites as mutually agreed to among the Parties concerned.

ARTICLE FIVE. We recognize that precise delineations of spatial jurisdictions are essential for the orderly processes of government and international relations. We agree that jurisdictions to be defined and delineated include:

(a) the outer limits of any one nation's spatial control and administration. Such delineation shall take into account the irrevocable right of any Government which exercises legitimate controls over a natural or artificial planet, satellite, planetoid, space station, planetary or satellite ring, or other celestial body to ensure absence of interference with that celestial body's free, unfettered and unencumbered passage through space.

(b) the control and operation of space communications booster, relay and terminal stations and their supporting research, development, manufacturing, and logistics systems and technologies. The intent of this definition and delineation is to ensure safety for all experimental to standardized status, and economically operated and serviced conventional and nonconventional communications systems throughout the Solar System and in interstellar space.

(c) traffic control, flight safety, and management of inter-regional, interplanetary, and inter-satellite space lanes. Acceptance of responsibilities shall not exceed the Signatory Party's existing technologies or other operational resources or capabilities.

(d) and the roles and responsibilities of each Government's participation in the (resources acquisition program).

ARTICLE SIX. We commit our Governments to financial, material and technological assessments for our utilization of the common space lanes. We agree these assessments are for the purpose of defraying the expenditures of any one Government toward maintaining and upgrading those common space lanes which fall within their borders, or other mutually agreed upon jurisdictions, and for performing such services for the common good as:

(a) removal of artificial hazards in space to innocent passage;

(b) traffic control;

(c) search and rescue;

(d) acquisition, deployment, operation and servicing of communications and navigational aids;

(e) construction, operation and maintenance of space and surface ports of entry and departure and related infrastructure for the shared use of all spacecraft that come in Peace;

(f) trained, equipped and urgent-dispatched investigative teams to assist Governments of Primary Concern in determining the facts of "incidents-in-space" that occur in proximate international areas, and

(g) emergency logistical capabilities for performing emergency essential repairs to damaged spacecraft of any other nations. Such repairs shall be to internationally accepted standards that will permit the craft to make a one-time flight to a location designated by the Government having legal authority to dispose of the spacecraft or to ensure that the craft and/or its debris is not a hazard to space traffic. Each nation is responsible for removal of man-made space debris from its areas of jurisdiction and for notifying SpaceTrack and solar space-mapping agencies of new artificial and natural hazards to space traffic and human habitats.

ARTICLE SEVEN. We announce the formation of an international apparatus, with representation from all Governments, to assemble within xxx Solar Standard months from the date affixed hereto. The primary purpose of this Assembly is to facilitate implementation of this Declaration. They shall also provide a forum leading to recommendations to Solar Governments for expansions to this Declaration towards:

(a) promoting the free, unencumbered, and unfettered passage of surface and aerospace vessels, people and commerce between and among the Nations of the Solar System;

(b) encouraging cultural, economic, and scientific research, and exchanges of scholars and information for the betterment of humankind;

(c) enhancing the understanding of all peoples regarding the positive values which have evolved over the centuries since the beginning of the Great Migration from Planet Earth,

and

(d) organizing an entity that will commence planning for humankind's reaching out to the endless frontiers of the Interstellar Realm.

ARTICLE EIGHT. We declare and affirm we act in concert with the letter and spirit of this Declaration of Principles in the interests of international cooperation, interplanetary peace and security, mutual understanding among our far-flung peoples, humanitarianism, and the survival of our species.

ARTICLE NINE. We encourage all Parties to expand on these accords through separa

ARTICLE NINE. We encourage all Parties to expand on these accords through separate negotiations and agreements for mutual benefits to themselves and to all Governments and peoples in the peaceful use of space.

UNQUOTE

** Well now, with water being found on the Moon, who can say? One small step....

Mike Moldeven (mikemldvn@aol.com)

I must be lost. Thought this was on books, not politics.

Hello everyone:

Welcome to Mike Moldeven. You have some interesting thoughts that are well planned out as to laws and rules to govern colonies in the rest of the solar system, flowing out of the fact of the discovery of water on the moon. But aren't you presupposing that it will be Americans who do most of the colonization? Part of the charm of SF is that it allows one to look at many different possibilities or scenarios. Water has been found on the moon, so what can happen? First maybe nothing happens and life goes on as before because there are too many pressing problems here on earth for anyone to think of setting up a moonbased colony. Second, your scenario in a way, in which the USA gets all gungho on the idea of a colony on the moon and starts the ball rolling so to speak. Third, some other nation which does not subscribe to the same laws and rules we do gets there first. Fourth, it is decided by all world governments to turn the moon into another Australia and send all the criminals there(this one is least likely). Then there is the question of how easy it will be to live in an closed environment of limited size. Here on earth while our homes might be small in size we can walk out of them any time we feel like with little trouble. On the moon going outside will mean putting on a space suit and all that entails. And how will people get along with others they see every day and cannot get away from? A moon colony will be a very elitist place in that only people of a certain very narrowly defined psychological profile will be able to go. I'm getting carried away here...

Jackie: war may be futile but as long as there are people trying to force their ways on other people war will exist in some form or another. It is a dominance thing. Trouble is, Homo sapiens has no dominance rituals like wolves or other animals. That would be an interesting story idea; the establishment of dominance rituals among humans to prevent war.

Without further ado a bit on books. I finished Piers Anthony's Yon Ill Wind and like all his Xanth books a fun and light read. He does have a nice bit on love towards the end of the book in which he points out you can have sex (summon the stork in Xanth terms) without love and you can also have deep love without sex being part of it.

Also finished Susan Matthew's Prisoner of Conscience. The main character Andrej Koscuiko is "something else" very honorable in that he goes by the law with exactitude; weird and spooky in that he enjoys his work of torturing people immensely. He is one of a number of different hominid races in the galaxy that seem to be at war with each other; and overall everything is controlled by the all powerful concept of The Law. I hope Matthews writes some more stories set in this milleu as I want to know more about the various societies she just hints at. Like one group of hominids called the Nurail do something that is called Singing the Weave which involves the history of their families and their people; and it is something done when they are dying so that history will not be lost.

My finger is running out of pep, so will stop...

Ginny, I notice Gary Moore's name is no longer at the top...

Nellie

Nellie - Thanks for your warm welcome! I'm glad you enjoy Greg Bear, also. What a brain! Did you read Moving Mars yet? I think he is the author of that one! I notice I called David Brin - Donald - I'm always doing that! Forgive me! Am reading David Brin's (got it right, that time) ;} Sundiver. What fun. I love his Uplift series.

Stephanie - The knife fighter is Dumarest! My son happened to remember his name. He had read the entire series and loved it too. Well, that's good. I don't like being unable to recall a name when I want it!

Talk to you later, Babette9

Nellie: Dominance rituals instead of war. I like that better than the hackneyed champions fight, or duel, or some other euphemism. A ritual needs to be part of the social contract, so that all may live with its results, winners achievements are clearly understood and losers can still function. Has anyone read Lives of the Giant Dogs, or whatever it is called? It will be interesting to compare that perception of dog/man interface with Simak's creation, City. Dogs came to mind as a logical offshoot of wolves' dominance rituals. Nellie, you sure do make me stretch my brain cells! Thanks, I think.

What? Nellie, you're right! What does this mean? I'll go see! Thanks!

Ginny

Hello everyone:

Babette9: have you read Brin's Earth? I really enjoyed reading it. I like the idea of all the seniors constantly videotaping everything with very small cameras attached somewhere on a hat or cap or other area of the body, so that the younger generation can't do anything of a nefarious nature without it showing up on tape. And the whole concept of the planet having a personality is wonderful.

Jackie: more on dominance rituals: of course we already have a lot of special rituals and behaviours in place that tell us how we react with our superiors at work; or how to behave should we meet the President in your case, or Prime Minister in mine, or the Queen of England; we wouldn't go up to her, slap her on the back, and shout out " how's it going, Lizzie!" An aside for a moment: I did actually meet a Prime Minister; Lester Pearson who came up with the idea of using the army as peacekeeper's for which he won the Nobel peace prize. Let me tell you how I came to meet him, and it was not in the usual way. I was working as nanny for a doctor and his wife and we had gone for a shopping trip in Edmonton, I think it was in 1965(I'm bad with dates). While we were settling down in our hotel the youngest girl became ill and I was sent out to a drugstore for some medicine. When I came back to the hotel, I saw an open elevator door and a big crowd of people surrounding it; being in a hurry I dove between and under what turned out to be members of the press and RCMP and into the elevator, almost colliding with the PM . you can imagine the consternation of the poor souls who were supposed to be guarding him. He told them very graciously that he didn't mind at all if I rode up with him. So I had a nice chat, very informal. Now back to rituals...the big problem we have is war. How do we stop it from happening? and what do we do when someone decides to invade our country? I think we react with force with force, for it is very hard not to. So no weapons of any kind would have to be part of the social contract. I'm stretching my own brain cells here. I'm thinking there can never be any type of world peace as long as there is one nation, or one person who has a weapon capable of killing large numbers of people; because others would want the same thing to defend themselves and so on. Though there was an interesting article in the paper recently which said that the next war might be a cyberwar, fought with and on computers, and would target our financial system and communications systems.

As usual I'm running out of finger pep...poor index finger is getting stiff...

Nellie

Nellie - No, I haven't read that one! Sounds great. I'll look for it. I've got Asimov's The Robots of Dawn to read when I finish Sundiver. I understand it is the third in a series. Rats. I haven't read The Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun but came across this one at the Library so will read it first!

It's about a roboticide on the planet Aurora and the Detective Elijah Bailey has to find out whodunnit. The murder is tied to a power struggle that will decide who will be the next interstellar pioneers in the universe. Should be lots of fun!

Babette, Oh they are just wonderful. I loved Isaac's robots. To just start them.. I do envy you. They are quite wonderful creatures. Steph

Hello Everyone!

As you can see I am now the "leader" of this discussion. I will just be me as always; very longwinded at times.

Babette: I agree with Stephanie the Asimov Robots are the most wonderful creatures; especially Daneel. And Asimov later ties the Robot stories into the Foundation series: I think in Robots and Empire. I'm proably getting ahead of you here. If you can find Caves of Steel, and The Naked Sun you must read these for sure. Caves of Steel is one of my all time favorites.

I finished Clarke's 3001: the Final Odyssey and was rather disappointed with it. This book cried out for grand technological pyrotechnics of the kind that Gregory Benson does so well in his Galactic Center series. But it was so hohum. The major threath comes from the TMA(black rectangular alien structure) which turns out to be an alien supercomputer which is being reprogrammed to destroy the human race. It is stopped by being infected by a very nasty computer virus program. And that's it. And somewhat unbelievable in a way. The virus they download into the alien computer is one which causes it to go into an infinite loop, doing the same calculations over and over, until it can do nothing else. I for one would think that an alien made supercomputer would be able to easily sidestep or take care of a virus such as that.

Will say bye for now...Nellie

Nellie: How exciting! Congratulations.

The two grand old men of sf, Asimov & Clarke, so different. Clarke i liked better in the short story mode. His books never reached me on an emotional level. Asimov could write anything, with both hands tied behind him. The early Foundation books were fascinating to me. And, I agree, the robots were the best. I wonder if there is a division in social attitudes between those who read sf and those who don't. More than read: when Star Wars came out, my daughter & I went to see it. We were so carried away we couldn't remember if the sound track included music! I persuaded my then husband to go with me to see it, and he thought it was a waste of time. That was not why I divorced him, but it is an indication of how far apart we were.

Hello everyone:

Jackie: What kind of social attitudes are you thinking of? I like SF because I tend to be very future oriented and it is the literature which attempts to prepare us for the possible futures that can come into existence given the conditions in the present. Contrary to what people who do not read SF think, Science Fiction does not predict the future.

Do you watch any of the Science Fiction shows on TV like Babylon 5, or Earth:Final Conflict?

Since I have books just started, books in progress, and one almost finished I don't have much to report bookwise for today. Except that we are remodelling the living room and moved all my books into the garage cum hobby room and into my bedroom. Since I have a couple of thousand books you can imagine what a job that was.

See you tomorrow...Nellie

I have always read science fiction. Probably my very first for pleasure type reading starting in Junior high. But I do know I have changed in the type over a long period of time. I dont think it predicts the future, but does give you a feel for what if.. and that is so important in this day and age. Oh Nellie, I have books everywhere, whenever I move the moving men go crazy on the books. However just now on the reading, have run into a woman whose last name is Kalogridis.. She did a three book series on the family Dracula.. starting with Vlad, etc. Marvelous and horrid.. Am just driven to keep reading. Great fun,, not however sci-fi.. Possibly would qualify for Fantasy.. but I guess more likely Horror,, even though I dislike the conventional horror writers.

Hi guys, Been a while. Just re-read Jack Vance's Planet of Adventure. (Reissue 4 in 1). Do it every winter when it looks like it's never gonna end. Michigan is wonderful in the summer tho.....

Nellie: also reissued of late are the "Telzie" books of James Schmitz (sp?) great telepathy stuff and 20 yrs ahead of his time in the treatment of the SF heroine. Gotta go, haven't retired yet. looks like too much work... arney

I loved the Telzey books! Thanks, arney, I'm going to look for those.

Nellie, what I meant was that readers of sf know that there are many futures, not The Future. Therefore, I believe, they are more open to exploring alternatives. Maybe I am speaking more about myself, or maybe people are more accepting of sf if they have certain attitudes already. Sf, to me, is more like history than it is forecasting. Ecology was seen as a threat by sf readers long before it became popular(?), because we had "lived" through ecological disasters. We had seen horrors - remember Haldeman's Forever War? We knew that cetatians were intelligent because we had vicariously lived with them, courtesy of David Brin and others.

Telzey is so neat. I do agree that Schmitz was years ahead of his time. He also did the Karres stuff which is some of my all time favorites.

Hello Everyone:

A hearty welcome to Arnie, (or is that welcome back?). Like everyone else I love the Telzy stories. They used to be in Analog Magazine, and as I have Analogs going back to 1967 I must have a look and see if I can find them and enjoy reading them once more. And speaking of Jack Vance: you made me thing of his Star Lords series books, have you read those?

Jackie: I remember Forever War. Another good book on ecological disaster is Nature's End by Whitley Strieber and James Kuneta. More about the character of SF readers; do you think we as a group or personally are more tollerant of people with different lifestyles and beliefs because we regularly "visit" with aliens in our reading?

Didn't get around to doing much surfing yesterday since I discovered, by accident, that there is a 16-bit version of Communicator available and decided I would give it a try. So downloaded and started to install the installation program. Not enough room on the little hard drive. So delete all the unzipped files the extraction prgram had already put on, deleted more stuff, moved stuff to floppies, and defragged the hard drive; and room to spare. And here it is, I'm using it and I like it. And I wonder how it manages to work on my weak 486 at all. I think it is the fact that I'm connected to the 'net with an EtherNet card that makes the difference as I did read recently that the Netscape browsers are much more stable and work better under that condition.

See you all tomorrow...Nellie

Hello everyone:

I'm not getting too much reading done what with trying to learn this new browser with no instruction manual. I am almost done with Pauline Gedge's Stargate, which by the way, has nothing to do with the movie or TV show. It is more a fantasy than SF but beautifully written and an interesting story. The main characters in the tale are the Sun Lords who are born of their individual suns, partnered with those suns, and have been put in charge of planets with intelligent life. The supreme being is called the Lawmaker and the Lawmaker has created a being called the Worldmaker who created everything including the sun lords, and who as the story begins has become the Unmaker who is trying to destroy all that he has created. The book is the story of how many of the sun lords fall and have their worlds destroyed, and how others fight him(I have not yet reached the end so don't know yet if they win). The sun lords travel via the stargates on each of their worlds from world to world. One by one the stargates of the sun lords who fall to the Unmaker are closed in the hope that the evil will not spread.

Jackie gave me an interesting idea to think of in an e-mail; and it isof us all reading the same book or maybe short story and discussing it. It could be fun. We don't want to do a Book Club type thing because I believe that was tried for SF and didn't work. But just amongst ourselves and anyone who wanted to join in. And we could still talk about other books and other things as well. Something sort of very free wheeling. I'm also thinking of a little quiz now and then. Perhaps an opening line quiz in which one of us would quote an opening line from a favorite book and the others would try to guess what book it is. Let me know what you think?

Nellie

Hi Arnie, Stephanie, Nellie: Dug up an old Telzey, The Lion Game. Great stuff!. Piggy-backing on my earlier suggestion, we could choose a theme and compare notes on how different authors treat the subject, interjecting our own thoughts as well. An example: Simak's City traces the interaction between man and robot, with a sidebar about dogs. Lives of the Monster Dogs, which I haven't read, deals with manipulation of dogs' genes and the consequences thereof. Another theme (courtesy of Telzey): telepathy.

Jackie: an interesting idea of taking a single theme or idea and seeing how different authors have used it in their writings. I like the telepathy theme. Makes me think right off of Alfred Bester's The Demolished Man. And it makes me think of the Pern books because of the telepathy between the dragons and their riders. It is interesting to look up just how many authors did stories using telepathy. If I remember right, even Asimovs robot Daneel turns out to have telepathic abilities.

Till tomorrow...Nellie

Telepathy is one of my great interests for a number of reasons. Anne McCaffrey approaches it with a great idea..Her people with talents books are outstanding.The ideaof discussing how different authors handle things sounds like fun.. Lead on.

Hello everyone:

One of the interesting things to look at is how the different authors think society will react to people with telepathic powers. After all there is something a little frightening about the idea of having some other human know what you are thinking or feeling. I know God knows everything I think or feel but that is a whole different thing altogether. There are levels of telepathy in the different author's stories too. Some have characters that can only read minds, while others have characters that can also control the minds of others. A very interesting subject. I've been digging around in my piles of books to see how many books I have that involve telepathy and there are quite a few.

Another fascinating subject is Time Travel. Some good stories have been done on that too. H.G. Wells' The Time Machine has always been one of my favorites.

For discussing telepathy do you think we should each pick an author or authors and tell what our choice does with the subject?

Nellie

I found two books I have with stories involving telepathy. One is Brother Jonathan by Crawford Killian in which the main character become telepathic because of a brain implant; the other is Telepathist by John Brunner which is about a natural telepath with healing powers. What is interesting about these two books is that they both have heroes who are disabled: Jonathan of Brother Jonathan has cerebral palsy, and Gerald Howson in Telepathist is born crippled and deformed. I just started reading both last night. It is fascinating that two authors come up with a similar concept; that of having the powers of the mind increased because of an physical lack.

I also finished Stargate by Pauline Gedge. It was a nice ending with the time of immortals being over and the time of mortals beginning. I liked the way the forbidden book of the things that will be tied the whole story together. One by one the sun lords were looking into the book and reading what was to be, and then they would do precisely what the book said; once they knew what the future was they had no choice but to do the things which would make their future turn out that way even if it destroyed them in the process. At the very end of the story the last sun lord Danarion who has become part mortal and who was the only sun lord who never tried to look in the book, is allowed by the Lawmaker to look in the book and all he sees are blank pages. And the Lawmaker tells him the future will be what mortals make of it and will last until he, the Lawmaker, spoke the word that would end all things. Another interesting idea or thought in the story was that change and sometimes imperfection are better than unending perfection; which Danarion came to realize when he lived a while as a mortal and found that his not so perfect mortal life was better than the somewhat cloying perfection of his immortal life.

Nellie

I am fond of McCaffreys telepaths since they have unique talents. Some are pure mental, others physical, ie moving objects with their minds. Some are empaths, others can find things. This makes some sense to me since each is a little different from the other and It does seem that this would be a logical way to develop talents. Later of course she developed the idea into a small series and those telepaths literally bridge worlds and move space ships with their minds. The idea is cleverly developed. Even to the claustrophobia given to some of them because the original telepath had it..

It is slow getting in here today for some reason. I have read a bit more of Brunner's Telepathist. In his story it is telepaths who run the world and prevent things like war and terrorism. The hero Gerald is not at all aware he is a telepath. He thinks he overhears conversations when he is really hearing people's thoughts. So now I have to find out how he finds out the truth.

Stephanie: now I'll have to look up my pile of MacCaffrey books and see if I have the telepath stories; I know I have some of them but forgot which ones.

Nellie

Nellie, The original short stories connected to a theme were something like "Get off the Unicorn"There were two or possibly three in this vein. Them she started on the Damia.. series. That is the family.. Steph. Still looking for more James White hospital stories. Just cannot find the old stuff at all.

Schmitt's Telzey story, The Lion Game, is filled with action, menacing monsters who are telepaths but also can teleport (600 lb gorillas). I much prefer MacAffrey's gentle telepaths. Get Off The Unicorn, indeed!

Jackie, Stephanie,

We all seem to be reading some very different books involved with the theme of telepathy. I'm alternating between two books; so last night read more of Brother Jonathan. In Killian's future world everything is run by a small number of giant corporations and people belong to the corporations and are in a way like slaves. Jonathan and a small group of other handicapped youngsters are part of a research project in which a new biocomputer chip designed by AI programs called Turings are to be tested. The idea of the chips is that these will repair brain damage. The chips are first tested in a dog and two chimps. And have been installed in the human test subjects with spectacular results. There are no natural telepaths and none of the characters have telepathic abilities as yet. But they are all in danger because the scientist in charge of the project is considering "sacrificing" them to find out exactly how the computer chip intergrates with the brain; and being disabled they are all what is called "non-status" and on the same level as the dog and the chimps as far as the company is concerned. There are various levels of status within a company: with executives and stockholders having the highest status; then the Professionals, the Technicians; and the lowest being the Patronized or Patrons who live on company welfare; and lowest of all are the Non-status. I find this view of a future world very interesting and Killian has developed it very well.

I think that may be what I like most about reading SF, being able to visit in my imagination those wonderful and new worlds created by the author. And the world must be described as part of the ongoing story flow, which is not always easy to do. I admire those who have the skill to do it.

See you tomorrow...Nellie

Marion Zimmer Bradley is another author who handles telepathy and variants very well. Someof her special talents are terrifying..Storm Queen is a good example.. To kill by thought is a nightmare to most of us.

A bit more about Brother Jonathan: the description of what happens when the telepathy aspect of the implants kicks in is just the most wonderful I've read in a long time. I was overcome by the beauty of it. The way the two characters totally became one in both body and mind and yet still individual as well; it is what I would imagine telepathy to be.

Nellie

I didn't have a chance to get here last night, I got sidetracked by CNet's Builder Buzz Forums. I've been thinking about Stephanie's observation that it is a scary idea being able to kill someone with thought as in the Marion Zimmer Bradley books. It's a good thing no one really has that power or people would be dropping like flies. Or we would have to control that aspect of our power. I can come up with all kinds of interesting thoughts on this subject. For instance, in a world with both telepaths and non-telepaths who would be the ruling class? In Brunner's Telepathist the telepaths would appear to be the ruling class; but I have read other books in which the telepaths had to hide from the normals.

And speaking of Telepathist: Gerald Howson has found out he is a telepath. He thinks he overhears a conversation and realizes he is much too far away to overhear people talking. The whole idea of telepathy scares him and he runs and hides in an old ruin, where he is found by a deaf and dumb girl. He uses his telepathy to communicate with her, and that is the way the other telepaths find him, for it seems he is the strongest telepath that has ever existed.

Does anyone know if anyone ever wrote a story of a world where everyone is telepathic and due to some mutation one person is born without telepathic abilities? Strikes me that long ago I read a book like that but can't remember the name or author. I can imagine the utter loneliness of the non-telepath in that situation; for in a world with all telepaths there would be no need for speech. Perhaps these beings would not even have speech organs. If no one wrote a story like it, someone should; it could make a very good story.

Nellie

Oh Nellie, you are right. I do remember a book like that,, just cannot remember which one.. Everyone felt so sorry for him, because they could not imagine now being able to communicate all the time. Was a very sad book, or possibly a short story. I have read so many of those over the years..Wish I could place the book for you.

I've had a hard time getting in here and Senior Net in general; yesterday I kept getting the WebX server is gone or moved messages; today had to wait ages before I got any reply.

Stephanie: Strange that we both recall reading the same story but can't remember the title. I was looking through my old Analogs for Telzey stories of which I found a nice pile, and while doing so found a story by Anne McCaffrey called a Womanly Talent, but it had similarities to what I'm remembering but was not the same.

In Brother Jonathan war has broken out between the company that owns him and his friends and another company that is attempting a hostile takeover. And this is a truly hostile takeover with bombings of crucial factories and other sites.

And in telepathist, Gerald has been gently persuaded by the other telepaths to learn how to use his power for the common good, and how to control it.

Its getting close to supper time, so must go...Nellie

Just dropping in to say that Quicker Than the Eye Ray Bradbury's latest book, is available in The Book Exchange for the postage!

It's a hardback.

Ginny

Nellie, Ginny, Stephanie, and all you others here in the sf outpost: I haven't been holding up my end of the discussion lately, and I apologize. Have you ever had one of those spells where complication piles on top of complication? You say to yourself: "I can deal with that. I can deal with this. I can deal with the other one." And then you get more and more. Well, that's been my March, 1998. No major calamities. Just too many. April is going to better, I know. So, as soon as I can get to the library to get some great stories about telepathy, I'll be back!

Hello Everyone:

Jackie: I'll look forward to learning what books with stories on telepathy you find. We do sometimes have things pile up on us, that's for sure

I read one of the Telzey stories; it is called Child of God and is about her run in with a rather deadly telepathic alien. She can kill with mind bolts and is a more warlike character than the characters in the other two books I'm reading.

Speaking of which the Killian book Brother Jonathan while still an enjoyable read is beginning to stretch the limits of my suspension of disbelief. Now the main characters not only have computer chips in their brains but they also have the Turing AI programs resident in those chips. How did the computer programs get there? They downloaded themselves when the computers they were originally installed on were under attack by rogue programs from the company that is trying the takeover of their company. I suppose I should imagine that computer programs in the future might have a different nature from programs today. Maybe computers will in many ways emulate the human brain. For one thing we don't run out of memory space nor do we stop thinking because the system is overloaded.

Nellie

Nellie, sounds more like Hal from Arthur Clarkes books or possibly Isaac's robots.. Telzey had some interesting adventures, although most were short stories. She was sort of a superwoman actually, but fun. I really liked the Witches of Karres better. They were funny and had such odd talents. Steph

Hello everyone:

It sure has been troublesome getting on here lately. Much better today. I think it is/was more the Internet itself rather than SeniorNet because all the sites I usually visit had the same problem; I could connect but then it took endless ages for anything to show up. Anyways I'm here!

Brother Jonathan had a nice upbeat ending. By the end of the story all humans have had the computer chip implants and they and the Turing AI programs become a new entity: a "supermind" composed of all the human and computer minds on earth. And they are ready to expand out to the stars.

I'm also reading Tepper's Gibbon's Decline and Fall. Right now I'm at the part where everyone has lost interest in sex. There is so much of interest in this book.

My post is not too long today as I spent some time installing the "dreaded" MSIE4.01 for Win3.1 because I thought I'd better look at my Web pages in IE as well. I'll be in for a shock most likely.

See you tomorrow,

Nellie

Hello:

Didn't do much reading the last couple of days. Well, not SF but have been reading in a magazine style book on MSIE. So far have learned that the program should in no way whatsoever run on my system; but it does as my using it for two full days in a row with no trouble will testify to. I was pleasantly surprised to find that my Web pages look just as good in MSIE as they do in Navigator.

I did find a book of Darkover short stories at the library yesterday. I've never read any of the Darkover stories so look forward to it.

this was mainly just a "hello" so I'm away...Nellie

Nellie, Be careful. Lots of the Darkover short stories are written by others, not Marion Zimmer Bradley. Not to say they are good or bad, just not authentic. Steph

My first Darkover book was Heritage of Hastur. I've re-read them all again, and another good one is Thendara House. They are not in chronological order. Like the Pern series, a mere thread in one book can later get full treatment on its own. Enjoy!

Hello everyone:

The first darkover story I've just read piques my interest and I'm going to be looking for more of the Darkover books on my next library visit. It does seem to be a book of short stories by Bradley as she introduces each story and what it meant to her.

The story I read was one involving a member of the Renunciates and the whole concept of a group of women who give up both the strength and comforts that living with men can bring is intreguing to me.

Nellie

Oh Nellie, She enlarges on this theme and it is wonderful. The whole thing has been so popular that there are several groups of women who have sworn oaths and tried to live like that. Its rather amazing actually. The renunciates are really wonderful. She has written at least two books on this theme.

Thendara House is the first of a "bilogy" about the renunciates. I'm just beginning to read it. How I missed it all these years...

Thendara House: Magdalena Lorne, daughter of Terrans, has lived her entire life on Darkover. She is studying language, is in Terran intelligence. As her marriage to a fellow Terran ends amicably, she is thrust into peril. The renunciates are active in her salvation, but the price they demand is that she take their vows. Other threads are: her ex-husband has married a Darkover woman who is beginning her medical training at the Terran base; Magdalena's Terran Intelligence boss is also a woman. When she tries to re4sign from Terran Intelligence, her boss persuades her that she can help evaluate the renunciates who will become candidates for medical training from the Terrans at the Terran Base. I can hardly wait for page two! <<grin>>

Hello everyone:

We are really getting into the Darkover stories. I loved the second story in the short story book. Actually it was a story fragment which was supposed to turn into a novel but never did. It too takes place in one of the Renunciate houses and tells of two of the women, one older and one younger: Camilla and Rafaella who are forever fighting and eventually come to serious blows involving knives. As punishment they are chained together at the wrist on a very short chain. At first they keep fighting but then see the uselessness of such activity when both realize that neither can really get at the other to do any harm. At that point they agree to work together to help each other; and through the forced closeness the two women become caring friends. This was a touching story to read.

Nellie

More on Thendara House: Margali, Magda to Terrans, is undergoing her "apprenticeship" and it is rough going. Rafaella and Camilla, from your short story, Nellie, are residents of Thendara House, but they are older now. Camilla is an Emasca, that is, a woman who has had a voluntary hysterectony. She is one of the swordswomen. Rafaella is Jaelle's partner in a business: they provide guides, consultation, etc., to travelers. Jaelle, married to Margali's ex, is serving at the Terran base. She is advising the Terran diplomatic corps. This is a book that is hard to put down.

I've just started a story which involves Jaelle, and she was also in the Camilla, Rafaella story in which Kindra sent her away from the Thendara House to live a year in the outside world. In the story I'm reading Kindra has come to where Jaelle lives but not I think to take her back to Thendara. Jaelle, of course, can't wait to go back...

The short stories are in sections: the first was the Amazons section with the stories about the Renunciates; Then the Keeper section with the three stories about Hilary who was to be a Keeper but was both too ill and not emotionally suited for the task. Then everyone is trying to marry her off to a bunch of boorish louts, and in the end she marries a man of her own choice in a very simple private ceromony. The section I'm in now is called Rohanna, and it is her family Jaelle lives with. Jaelle despises Rohanna for being a weak woman because Rohana is pregnant only to please her husband.

Doesn't Bradley have very well written female characters?

I'm still reading Brunner's Telepathist. There is a problem the telepathists run into and that is the desire to set up what is called catapathic groups in which they will set up a fantasy world in which they will involve a certain number of nontelepaths. In their fantasy world they forget about the real world and don't take in nourishment, nor do their audience take in nourishment with deadly results. And only strong telepaths like Gerald Howson can break up a catapathic grouping. Brunner describes one such grouping which was found to late and they were all so motionless for so long that they were covered with dust. And now a very powerful telepath has set up a fantasy grouping and Gerald must break it up; but he has already been drawn into the fantasy part ways, and he fears the task he must do.

Nellie

The Rohana story had me leaking a few tears at the end. She wanted so badly to leave everything behind and join the Renunciates but in the end her duties to the Domain and her family won out and she stayed where she was. One of the most beautifully done and strongest female characters I've read. Can't you tell I really like the Darkover stories? Now I wish I hadn't dismissed them as just "one more fantasy" series when I first saw them. And they are more SF than fantasy IMO. I found the newest Darkover book at the bookstore and of course took it home with me( bought and paid for). But I'll have to read some of the older books in the series from the library.

Nellie

Darkover is a powerful world. One of those where any number of people want to and do write about it. She had a fanzine for years and some of the stories were quite remarkable. Her females are quite powerful and evoke strong emotions. When you find Stormqueen,, prepare to be amazed.

Stephanie: I'm sure I will be

I finished Brunner's Telepathist. Gerald goes back to the place where he was born and find his future. He meets a group of young students among whom are Clara a receptive telepath(though she does not know it) and Rudi, a brilliant but frustrated artist. Gerald helps Rudi achieve his artistic vision with the help of Clara. And Gerald learns a way to share his gift with large audiences as he shares the thought and stories of other people.

Nellie

Finished City of Sorcery, sequel to Thendara House. I must comment on the craft of writing. In this one, the poor writing interfered with the story. Generally dissatisfied with this book. Thendara House was much better.

My daughter is a Charles de Lint fan, and when I'm out of books, she will lend me some of hers. He is a good writer, and also has strong women characters in his books. The villains are too often simply evil, not much sympathy for them. Not that I am an outlaw, just that the conflict is black-vs-white, and I prefer more complexity. However, I always finish them. Right now am reading The Little Country. His plots are complex, even if his villains are not!

Jackie: I agree with you about complex characters. I don't like pure evil or pure good characters. Characters in any type of story should be "well rounded".

I just finished reading Greg Bear's Queen of Angels last night. A favorite character in that story is a minor one: a computer program named Jill who towards the end of the book becomes self aware and appears to go insane as she cannot process the concept of how to handle guilt, or even the idea of feeling or not feeling guilt. She feels guilty over the fact that she has done nothing to be guilty of. I wonder if that isn't the human condition also? Perhaps I sympathize with Jill because I often feel the same way. I , of course, have done not so nice things in my lifetime; but strangely enough I don't feel half as guilty for those things as I do for things I haven't done. This is a concept that is hard to put into words.

Another little book I read was Le Guin's The Lathe of Heaven. In which the main character has the ability to dream what he calls effective dreams, in that what he dreams literally happens. He is put under the care of a psychiatrist who comes to believe him after a few demonstrations and who decides to use George's dreaming ability to make the world a better place by suggesting what George should dream about. But the results are never quite what are wanted or come about in undesirable ways. I especially like where Haber-the psychiatrist-has George get rid of racial problems and everyone in the world turns into a grey colored person. It does get rid of the problem but makes things terribly dull and boring. And George dreams up alien attackers to stop the constant warring among humans. Haber has invented a machine that can copy the state of George's brain while he dreams and at the end of the book he uses it to try his own effective dreaming so that he can get the world to be as he wants it to be; with very disastrous results. The world is almost destroyed, and is saved only by George's actions. But the world that remains is a mishmash of all the worlds George dreamed.

Nellie

Am finally reading McCaffreys "Dragonseye" It goes back to the second pass period.. They are trying to show the developement of the various crafts and the disintigration of the high technology. They of course have a holder who does not believe in thread. As always fascinating.] Yes,, City of Sorcery is not one of her better novels. I suspect that she did not think through the characters in this particular novel. The Amazons are hard to get clear. The short stories in many ways delineate the Amazons better. Still there are patches which make them truly remarkable.

Charles de Lint's Shadows and Dreams is very good. His milieu is contemporary urban Canada. This book is about a group of young artists, writers, etc. They all live around the university, but have a sort of enclave of their own. One is granted the privilege of working with a local who is renowned as a genius; he is reclusive and her privilege is so rare few know even what he looks like. Their relationship becomes stormy, he abuses her, hitting, kicking, etc. But she sticks with him because her art is advancing under his tutelage. Then, things start to get weird.

Everyone is reading such interesting books! I have dragon's Eye but with the exception of looking at the back cover blurb haven't started reading it yet. And the Charles de Lint story sounds very fascinating. I must see if I can find it on my next library visit. The way things are going I'll be looking for so many books at the library, I'll empty it out

I'm working on Stephen Donaldson's This Day All Gods Die. I say working because I find his books a chore to read; and yet his story is interesting enough that I can't stop reading. I wish he would not go in for all that over-dramatization! Everyone of his characters is constantly in some state of agony over what is happening to them.

Nellie

I cannot get into Donaldson. He is just one of those that I never enjoy. Had a customer the other day, just discovered Gordon Dickson.. He was reading all of the Dorsai in order. We had such fun discussing them. The Dorsai are one of those remarkable one of a kind inventions. Larger than life, but fascinating.

Dorsai! Sure brings back fond memories. And what of Miles Vorkasagian )sp?). Haven't heard from that quarter recently. I sure hope her well hasn't run dry. Poor authors slave away for months, years, and I can gobble up a book in one day if I don't ration myself. I don't go for Donaldson either. Used to see him in Analog of F & SF. It is rare that I do not read something that is right before my eyes, but it was easy to pass him by.

Hi Sci-Fiers -

Our library finally got a new sci-fi book by Dennis Danvers, CIRCUIT OF HEAVEN, that you might like to check out. The scene is 2050 and most humans have 'uploaded' their personalities to a silicon utopia where they never have to die. It's a small 5 X 7" book that is well written. I'm about 1/3 thru it and the plot thickens, i.e., it appears that if someone doesn't want to remain in circuit heaven, one can 'download' into one of the physical bodies of someone who is in the process of 'uploading' to heaven. Hmmmmm.

Peggy

A hearty welcome to Peggy kopp. I do hope you'll visit us more.

A lot of good and interesting book are being talked about. And it seems I'm not the only one who has a dislike of Donaldson's writing. I've decided to just sort of skim to the parts about the Amnion because I like the aliens. It is not the story I dislike but his style of writing. And yet there must be many people who do like his writing because he does sell books after all.

No new book to report on as I've been catching up on the SF TV shows I diligently tape and then forget to watch until I've got a whole horde to look at.

Nellie

Am reading Azimov's Fantastic Voyage II. It seems that the first Voyage was a novelization of the movie, and he was merely a recorder, except, as he notes, where he had to clean up the scientific boo-boos. This one is entirely his, and his sense of humor is running rampant! Very good characterization, good story line, very enjoyable. Speaking of Azimov, I was crushed, one day in the early 80's, to read in the newspaper that he did not believe that there was intelligent life out there. If a man of his intellect and scientific background ... He would be the first to argue that a high IQ isn't always paired with good sense, though.

Isaac always loved a good heated discussion.. so perhaps he was causing it by that statement. Saw him speak once and he just threw out ideas by the dozen. Fascinating man.. Wonderful speaker. It was at Tufts University and he held the students ( and all of the parents who snuck in) absolutely spellbound.

Wish I could have heard him live. This voyage is fantastic. Great characterization and the complex story is satisfyingly suspenseful. High level science but one of the story elements takes care of that for the rest of us: know-littles.

Jackie: now I'll have to dig out my copy of Fantastic Voyage II and read it again!

I finished Tepper's Gibbon's Decline and Fall. I don't know if I can agree totally with her concept in the story of the "female" being wise and the "male" being totally evil. But it is a good book with some interesting twists and turns, like the presence of the descendants of intelligent dinasaurs. But the choices of the possible futures for the human race interested me. It is not said which one Carolyn chose. Which would you choose? The choices were:

1. Only pairs mated for life would breed once every ten years and a woman would have at most three children in her lifetime. World population would be low, and there would be more than enough of everything needed for everyone.

2. A world of parthogenic females with males being born infrequently to add genetic variety to the race. Would have none of the male and female conflicts.

3. Things as they are but a woman has total control over when and if she conceives.

4. Only the mature can have offspring but people mature only after thirty years but then very quickly.

5. the world as it is but without the influence of evil.

Which of those would you choose?

I haven't chosen yet; though I'm leaning toward the world as it is. But it is so interesting to try and imagine what things would be like in some of the scenarios she puts forth. In the first one I could see children becoming totally pampered and perhaps even worshipped in some way because there would be so few of them.

Nellie

There are some interesting extrapolations in that list. I, too, lean towards randomness as the most ultimately stable, genetically speaking. Evil is a concept that I really cannot understand. I am basically a positive person; of course I have a temper, and I react to perceived threat. There has not been an instance where I have ever had to deal with real violence so how can I know what it is? Same with evil. We all know people who are not quite "right", psychologically speaking, but that isn't purely evil. And intellectual concepts are one thing, knowing something from experience is another. If I could vote, I would eliminate evil.

Tepper's point is not so far out when we think of what the Taliban stands for. Some of the world's religions today are quite uncomfortable with notions that do not align with their age old teachings. Modern woman doesn't have a chance if people (men) who think like that get in the majority, as Tepper showed. Tepper's world and Aslan's world are not so far apart, in some of the effects. I'll have to think more deeply on this.

Your comment about spoiled children is interesting. I don't have the data at my fingertips, but several cultures have raised their children with no punishment. Children are not worshipped, but they are universally loved. One of these cultures, I believe, is the Inuit. These are small, homogeneous populations, and the social contract is clearly understood by everyone. Life is so harsh that the contract is geared to survival, and an individual would have no trouble deciding how to act. Punishment could interfere with the bond of trust which is required. Before I get cause and effect mixed up here, I must note that natural selection, no doubt, has resulted in amiability being a survival trait.

I've been running off at the keyboard, haven't I?

The discussion about the inuit is quite interesting. The harsh life I am guessing has a lot to do with the behavior patterns. As a quaker, I have always had problems with violence. I tend to not believe in it even when it is happening. I love the choices and since I have been in dispair about all of the children having children, would probably lean toward the first choice. Have found an old Marion Zimmer Bradley.. anthology.. Leroni of Darkover. She only introduces and chooses, does not actually write the short stories. Still the skill level is high. Some interesting uses of telepathic behavior.

I found the first of the Darkover books at the library. It is the one where the ship crashes on the planet and humans first come to Darkover. So far they've had some strange things happening. And the main character Rafael MacAran keeps thinking he can hear other people's thoughts. There was an incident in which everyone seemed to be in a delirium of some sort; and during which a young woman named Judith Lovat saw a strange humanoid figure. Very tall, thin and pale. Later she finds a beautiful cut sapphire hidden in her shirt, and a small flint knife. So an interesting start...

I recently finished a supergood book by Carolyn Ives Gilman called Halfway Human. The story is about Tedla who is by his own people not considered human because he is a neuter, or a "bland" as they call the neuters. On his home planet of Gamadis there was, long before he was born, a population problem, which was solved by chemically altering most of the population so that they would never develop any sexual characteristics and hence could not breed. The story begins on Cappela where Tedla is in a hospital after attempting to commit suicide. There he meets Val who is a Xenologist and has come to find out about him. It is to her he tells the story of his life. How he and many other children, all neuter until puberty when some become human, live in a gestatory under the care of the blands. He tells of that terrible moment when he realizes he will not be human. And of having to adapt to life in grayspace as the hidden places where the blands live and travel through are called. He tells of learning to be a personal servant to the humans. And of being abused and degraded. Of being rescued by a kindly old man whom he comes to love and who loves him. He tells of meeting Magister Gallele from Cappela who does not believe him to be unintelligent and gets him enrolled in university. There is so much in this story about what it means to be human. It is a very deep book that gives you lots to think about.

And speaking of "running off at the typewriter"...I too must go

Nellie

Nellie: I have never read that Darkover book. What is the title? I'm fascinated by the Ives book. I had read the reviews and was intrigued. That is one I will have to read.

Lives of the Monster Dogs is now in paperback. Has anyone read it? This one sounds really different, too. So much imagination; how do they do it?

I must get the Ives book. Sounds like my cup of tea. The Darkover book that Nellie is speaking of is not the first written, but the somewhat later book explaining how Darkover was settled. She writes out of sequence filling in as she is interested. Makes for fun, but confusion occasionally. You lose beloved characters or never return to them.

Jackie: the book is called "Darkover Landfall" and does primarily tell how the humans came to be on the planet. There is also a rather mysterious alien people living on the planet, who at some point in the far distant past travelled all over the galaxy leaving colonies and descendants behind. The book indicates that the humans could be some of their descendants. And the humans and aliens can interbreed as witnessed to by Judith having a child with one of the aliens. It says at the very end of the book: "A century later they named the planet Darkover. But Earth knew nothing of them for two thousand years"

Stephanie: Do you know which is the first Darkover book? I guess since they don't really seem to be in order, it doesn't matter which one I start with. I started reading Thendara House last night but only read about four pages before my eyes felt too tired and sleepy; so I went to bed for the night.

Nellie

Yes, the first published was The Bloody Sun, but she later revised it rather extensively.. Mostly to make things fit.. It was not intended to be a series originally.

Run, do not walk, to your nearest bookstore and buy Sherri S Tepper's The Family Tree.. I cannot say enough about this book! It is two parallel stories: one is about a woman police detective who is investigating murders of geneticists; the other is about a primitive world, apparently in the far future, with a quest, collecting travelers as they go along, stories twining and intertwining. The two parallels are also twining and intertwining. On each page, Tepper is delighting me with her prose and her wit. Go go go, don't tarry, they may be all sold out before you can get there!.

Jackie: I'm not quite running to the bookstore because at this time on a Sunday they are all closed but I'm going to have a look see tomorrow. I love everything Tepper writes; so I'm sure I'll like this.

I'm reading Thendara House. Magda who works for the Terrans is acclimatizing herself to life in Thendara House. And Jaelle is becoming used to life on the Terran base. It is a major struggle for both women to adapt to their new lives. And I just realized something! A light just went on! I've always wondered where the word "nun" came from and I think I have it: it comes from "renunciate". Am I right? Of course there is no similarity between Christian nuns and the Renunciates of the Darkover stories but I think the word renunciate applies to both.

I'm not enjoying the new Pern novel Dragon's Eye as much as I usually enjoy a Pern book. Not enough dragons and riders and their interactions; and too much politics.

I also finished a short story collection by Greg Bear called Tangents, which had good stories in it. I especially liked "Sisters" and "Sleepside Story". Sisters is about a young teen in high school who is different from everyone else in that she is a natural born, and all the rest of the students are genetically designed. So everyone is beautiful and very smart. She feels alienated and doesn't like any of her classmates. But then her classmates start dying from heart attacks and it is discovered that there is a serious genetic fault in their design. She feels guilty at first and tries to interact with them; and as she interacts with them forms friendships; and eventually becomes to care for them all deeply. It is a moving story.

Sleepside Story is a twist on the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale. A young man's mother steals a piece of sheet music from the house of a mysterious Madam who insists that he or his sister must come to live with her if they want to see their mother again. He goes, first on a very odd subway train and then in a limousine. The lady in question lives in a large old house with invisible servants. She is not beastly looking but she does tell him she is looking for someone to love just for herself. To make a long story short: he does come to love her and rescues her from a strange psychic web that keeps her trapped in her beastly past. As he does so she changes into a sweet young girl and he marries her.

Nellie

Just started a two book series.. Definitely an adventure.. Anne Lesley Groell,, Vol. i is Anvil of the Sun.. Great fun. professional assasins.. They work either singly or in teams and the world is a mixture of current, past and future.. There are Mages.. although not particulary active in this book. They do perform a service like a telephone only face to face, which is interesting. One of those relaxing type books. No thinking just laughing and enjoying the pace

Stephanie: I like that term: a relaxing type book. I know just what you mean though. I find Piers Anthony's Xanth books to be of the relaxing type, and that's why I enjoy reading them so much. And maybe why so many others enjoy them too. Another relaxing book series is John deChancie's Castle Perilous series: about the castle the doors and even windows open up to alternate realities and worlds.

Started reading the Bloody Sun and I'm beginning to see a certain repetitive theme in Bradley's darkover stories. In each there is a Darkover native who is half human who has in some way to acclimatize themselves to living on Darkover. In Thendara House it was Magda; in Bloody Sun it is Kerwin, and in Exile's Song it is Margaret.

Does anyone read Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine? There is a marvelous novella in the June 98 issue called The days of Solomon Gursky by Ian MacDonald. A must read IMO. Yes, you must stretch the imagination faculties of your brain to the utmost; but that is the enjoyable part for me at least. What MacDonald reveals in his story is grand and wonderful. If you watch Star Trek at all you know of the Borg who use nanomachines to change people into half machine and half flesh. Well MacDonald takes that concept much farther: with the aid of nanotechnolgy humans become spaceships and other things; they can take on any shape they desire. Nor do they ever die for the most part because the nanomachines simply rebuild them.

Nellie

My reading of the Darkover books has spanned twenty years. I do not recall the theme of the half-Terran as one that appears often. And, it is not one of my favorites. I much prefer the all-Darkover stories. You are making me stretch my mind again, Nellie. I must re-examine my assumptions.

I used to read Analog, F & SF, Locus, but never got in the habit of IASF. This sounds like my loss. Thanks for the tip.

I've finished dragonseye and it did get a little better once they exiled Chalkin to the little island and threadfall began. I liked the reaction of the dragons when they first see thread when everyone had gone to the Southern hemisphere to see what thread looked like. All the dragons were like; well let me at it. A real instinctual reaction. But overall I still did not enjoy this book as much as most of the others in the Pern series. Do you thing that McCaffrey might be giving in to fan pressure and is trying to come up with Pern stories when she really doesn't have much more to tell?

I'm hoping that some of the all Darkover books will be in the library when I go tomorrow (maybe).

Well I'm going back to working on the Web pages in a little while. Busy as an old beaver adding new pages and making changes.

Nellie

You have just been hitting the half Darkover books. There are some splended ones that have no relationship to that theme. I like the all Darkover ones. Anne McCaffrey is getting older, but I do agree about Dragonseye. More of a short story I thought. However the newest one is Master Harper and I did love him. Cant wait to read it. On the second of the Assassin stories, Lovely off hand types and am just having a ball with them.

I made a run on the library yesterday and came away with a good haul of science fiction books. I found three darkover novels I haven't yet read: The Forbidden Tower, Heritage of Hastur, and City of Sorcery which I have started reading. The story has many of the same characters as Thendara House and is set in a time about seven years after the events in Thendara House. So far Magda has been asked to use her psi powers to find out what happened to an Earth operative who while flying over the Hellers reported seeing a city where none was marked on the map. The plane crashed and then the woman mysteriously appeared at earthbase with her mind totally wiped. Such an intreging start to this story.

Other books I picked up are: Maze World by Jack Williamson, Day of Atonement by Walter Jon Williams, and Endangered Species by Gene Wolfe. So I have lots of reading ahead to enjoy.

Nellie

Hi, All. Have been riding the merry-go-round again, haven't had much time to talk,, but I do check in every day before work - I drink my morning coffee at SeniorNet. Re-reading Emergence by David Palmer. Nothing new. Nellie, read your email!

Jackie: What a surprise, I just started to reread Emergence as well. I guess great minds think alike!

I'm really enjoying City of sorcery. It has adventure and mystery and all the major characters are female; strong independent females at that. Thus far Rafaella and the terran woman Alexis have gone off to try and find the City that Alexis saw before she crashed. Rafaella left a message for Jaelle to meet them on the trail to join them. She doesn't go alone how ever; Magda, Camilla, and two terrans Choyalana ans Vanessa go with them. Having had problems crossing the mountain passes they missed the rendezvous with rafaella's group and have come to Nevarsin the next meeting place where they meet a supposed Leronis named Acquilaria who tells them she knows of Rafaella's whereabouts. Needless to say she is not trusted.

Sorry, I have read the e-mail but am just forgetting to answer. Will do as soon as I finish with SN...thanks for reminding me.

Nellie

Just starting Trader, by Charles de Lint. Urban fantasy, it is called. In this one, a man wakes up one morning in a strange room, and comes slowly to the realization that he is inhabiting a stranger's body, as well. de Lint is a Dutch-born Canadian who writes about Toronto and environs. His characters are adults in their 30's who live ordinary lives, our hero, Trader, is a luthier. Then, wham, they are exposed to the world of fantasy which, unaware, is going on all around them. My daughter gives them to me when I have read all mine. He writes well and his people are very likeable. The fantasy elements are believable, too.

Emergence was hard to put down, so I raced through it. The early parts were better than the ending, I thought. Sometimes it seems like an author takes a premise and flies with it. Suddenly the story must be ended within fewer than 100 pages, and so, deus ex machina comes to the rescue once again.

I've been busy the last week testing out Forum software which meant spending time at many different Forums - 7 of them to be exact. lots of fun and I've found one or two I'll actually go back to. So haven't had much time to read.

Am only so far in Emergence where she finds the farm and is moving in. I finished City of Sorcery and found this the best of the Darkover novels as yet.

I'm also almost finished with Walter Jon Williams' Days of Atonement. This is a murder mystery with a time travel twist; the murder victim died twenty-five years earlier in a car crash. I find the main character Loren, the police chief who is investigating the crime to be somewhat of a "nasty person" (word starts with b) He is corrupt and has his own ideas of how the law should work and regularly beats up the people he arrests, if he thinks they need it. And at the same time he is a good family man and a devout church-goer. The title of the book comes from a church ritual called the "days of atonement" in which for one week the members come to church every day to reflect on one of the major sins. Anyway, one day a car drives up to the police station and a seriously wounded young man stumbles in; Loren goes to help him and the young man speaks his name. Loren is surprised and then recognizes the dying man but thinks he is a son of his old friend who had died in the car crash. It is only later that he begins to realize that the young man who died in his office and the young man who died 25 years ago are the same...

More later...there is a major rainstorm going on and I must check the basement...never seen so much rain coming down in my life!!!

Nellie

I'm back to darkover, reading Heritage of Hastur, and The Forbidden Towers. Interestingly enough Heritage of Hastur is an all male book, just like Thendara House was mainly female. It tells the story of Regis of Hastur, and of Lew Alton in alternating chapters. Regis wants to go to Earth but has been persuaded by his grandfather to spend the required three years in the Cadets first. Regis agrees and when in the cadets becomes friends with another young man named Danilo. after a time Danilo becomes very hostile towards Regis only because he(Regis) is a Comyn. It later turns out that the reason for Danilo's hostility was the abuse, mostly mental, that was being heaped upon him by the Cadet-master Dyan Ardais, a real slimeball IMO. Any ways a good start to a good book.

Nellie

Ah, but in another book entirely, you learn that Dyan has his own problems.. Thats what I like about her.. She gives you different takes on people depending on the characters point of view..

Hello, Nellie & Stephanie: Have been lurking, again. My "Mom" (Aunt) is in the hospital; she's been failing since her gall bladder surgery 3 weeks ago. No word from the Docs to explain. Anyway, it is nitely visits to the hospital, get home late, bed, work, hospital. That's why I call it the merry-go-round. Still reading: Groell's assassins are fun; thanks, Stephanie. Decided to re-read Tepper's Gate to Women's Country; is it as good as I remember it to be? Nellie: will look at your new pages; I keep an eye on your creativity fairly regularly, even though I may not mention it. Bye, for now.

hello everyone, i went to the library this morning and ask for the darkover novels, gave three of the names[of books] that you mentioned and my librarian said they didn't have them.would someone please e mail me some information. i picked up charles de lints trader, and memory dream. i'm anxious to read them.

Barbara: Hi! Welcome to our little group. Darkover is the name of the planet; the author is Marion Zimmer Bradley. I hope you like Charles de Lint. Stephanie mentioned a "bilogy!" by Anne Lesley Groell about an assassins guild. The first one, Anvil of the Sun, was very enjoyable. Another one I'm enjoying is Galactic Gourmet by James White. Nellie: what was the name of that book you enjoyed so much about the person who was neuter and therefore, not human? Sounded good.

Jackie, I do love James White. It is hard to get the older ones about the galactic hospital, but I keep trying. The Marion Zimmer Bradley Darkover books are in every single used book store.. So who ever tried the library, try there. The Gate to Womens country is a wonderful book. I felt a special closeness to any author who could write so concisely about things that had always troubled me about the male female dichotomy.

Hello everyone:

It's been busy in here since I've been away a while.

Jackie: the book is Halfway Human by Carolyn Ives Gilman. One of the best I've read recently.

Heritage of Hastur: Dyan ends up to be less of a slimeball than first impressions give him to be. That Sharra matrix was very interesting, the way it controlled them and used them to destroy Caer Dom, and the way it affected each of the personalities involved in the "ring" that tried to control it, so that they became evil. They were talking about sending the matrix off planet. Do they do that? Or does something else happen? There is a book I haven't read as yet called Sharra's Exile which seems to follow on The Heritage of Hastur.

The Forbidden Tower gave one of the best pictures of what it would be like to be a telepath that I've read so far.(forgive me if I don't get these names quite right, I'm terrible with names) The closeness of the two couples, Damon and Ellemy, and Andrew and callisa is really something and somewhat daring on Bradley's part when you imagine what it involves. Andrew, being an Terran at first has many difficulties with some of the things going on. But a very good book which had me at times shedding a tear or two.

I'd like to get the whole Darkover series for myself. According to the back pages of Exile's Song they all seem to be available since they give an order form. But I think that is only for in the US. I'm going to keep an eye out in the bookstores starting next month. This month I have other plans. Another senior forums place is having a get-together in Cedar Key Fla. on June 18-21 and I'm going! Yeah! I've never been to Florida so it will be a nice little holiday. I haven't had a holiday since five years ago. It's about time I think.

Nellie

Nellie, you mad impetuous thing you! Go to Florida and have a wild time. We'll miss you, but you'll tell us all about it when you get back, right?

once you read a Darkover book, you want them all, same with mccaffey,tepper,and brooks. use used books mostly so i don,t go bankrupt. like heinlen,isamov,niven,benford,brin sheffield and more. read both sci-fi and fantasy, don,t consider horror part of genre. belong to the sci-fi book club for that book i gotta have now and the budget allows. thanks

Hi, Judy, welcome. Lots of familiar names in your list. I don't care for horror, either. I have a reserve order in at library for Masterharper of Pern. What are you reading now?

Hello and a big welcome from me too Judy!

Just read another Darkover book: Rediscovery. In this one the planet is "found" again by Earth. Not a lengthy book, but nice and we meet many of the characters who will star in later books.

I just haven't been reading as much lately. Sometimes I do get into a reading slump for a while. I'm also trying to think of something different to do for this discussion; something fun. I have an idea brewing and when it is fully finished, you will all see it here. I can tell you this much: it will be a sort of a contest. Very unofficial and no prize; except how good you feel when you get it right.

See you all later! Nellie

Nellie, like you, I have not been reading sci-fi,,, but have been working on mystery with a twist. Bring on the funn....

Maybe a "perk me up" like Elizabeth Moon's Once a Hero would cure the summer slump. Honor Harrington has a new challenger in Esmay Suiza.

Brian,, Thanks for the hint. I like Elizabeth Moon

Hello Everyone:

I've got a few Elizabeth Moon books around, and perhaps it is time I read them again as well as the new one. I haven't quite figured out my fun thing as yet. I'm torn between two different ideas. When I make up my mind, you will know. And what would you think of us discussing one particular book? Or was that tried before and it didn't work?

Books just started: Hot Wind at Midnight by Robert Silverberg, and Venus plus X by Theodore Sturgeon. The former book is about Earth and increasing air polution and heating and the plans that are being made to alter humans genetically so that they will be able to survive. One of the characters involved realizes that changing the blood means in essence changing the whole human organism; and he thinks that they would not be human any more. Which leads to an interesting question. Is what makes us human external appearance? Or is it something internal? I see it as something internal, something of the mind and soul; and if we all suddenly had the outer appearance of bears, we would be no less human.

Interestingly enough Venus Plus X is also about a changed human race. Male and female have been blended into one. But things are not well in this paradise where there is no conflict between the sexes.

Nellie

Just a short message to let you know that I'm on my way to Florida in the morning of the 17th. I won't be near a computer for a while, but will pop in if I get the chance.

Understandibly I haven't been doing much reading, what with getting ready for the trip. I am taking a few books along: Exile's Song by Bradley, Castle Perilous by DeChancie, and Slant by Bear.

Hope everyone will keep visiting here. See you all on the 28th or so.

Nellie

Nellie: Have a great time! I miss you already.

Nellie, have fun... I have been rereading an Elizabeth Moon. The one about the career captain who had to resign and ended up as Captain of a very wealthy womans space ship. Great fun, all in all. I understand there are two more in this series,and will look for them. However a New Anne McCaffrey came in.. The second in the Freedom series and I did love the first one. So.. will put Moon on hold.

Stephanie: I amnot familiar with that new Anne McCaffrey series. Tell us more.

First was "Freedoms Landing" Second is "Freedom something else. An interesting premise. They take slaves and populate difficult planets with them. Due to an error, a slave (earth woman) is picked up and so is a native of the ruling race. They are deposited along with many others on a planet.. The story is settling the planet and getting the attention of the ruling race. Fascinating and has series written all over it. Do look for them.. Also of course the Masterharper of Pern is out in hard back.. Have not read that one yet.

Just finished "Beggars in Spain" by Nancy Kress. She won both the Hugo and Nebula for the novella.. Then expanded the novella into a book. Wonderful postulation... Genetic manipulation on purpose turns up the Sleepless. IE No need for sleep, learn at a rapid rate, etc. Then the Sleepers.. cannot deal with this. A wonderful book that makes you realize how pointless prejudice of any type is.. Loved it.

Haven't been able to find Freedom's Landing yet. Just finished Master Harper of Pern. Now I'll have to go back and read them all again. This is one series that never gets stale.

Nellie: Are you back from Florida? Really missed you. Stephanie is to or from Alaska Ginnie has been in Rome for one month, Ros lost her computer for one month, It has been quiet around SN. Please, Nellie, don't desert us for that other group.

Jackie: I'm back! I got home on the 27th but needed some time to unwind from the long plane trip. And of course I had to tell my family all about everything that happened on my trip. Then I ended up having to install a new version of Communicator because for some reason my other one wasn't working right any more. Mom said my younger brother was playing around with it and had a spot of trouble. Anyways, downloading and installing Communicator 4.05 was a major undertaking. To make room for the installation files I have to move non-critical files to floppies and then delete them from the hard drive; in the process of doing that I found out I had somehow ended up with a ton of vesa(video) drivers, about 10Mb worth. So those went, except for the one I know I need. After all that deleting I had to defrag and that takes more time. but Finally here I am!

Managed to read Greg Bear's Slant which is a follow up on Queen of Angels. He has developed a very interesting future world and I hope he will do more stories set in the same milleu. This was a good tale, technical at times but kept me page turning far into the night. It is primarily a story about what can happen when people are turned partly into machines in order to keep them mentally at their peak. Most people in his future society are "therapied" which means they have nanomachines installed in their brain and other body systems to control hormones and unwanted emotions. There is also a very elite group of people called "Naturals" a group of whom have introduced a "virus" which is destroying the nanomachines inside the therapied. They have done this so that they will end up to be the only people on earth living in luxury, tended by intelligent machines.

Just finished "Exile's Song" a Darkover novel. Enjoyed it. I liked Margaret Alton, feisty and stubborn at times. She has been brought up Terran and so knows a lot of freedom; and that brings her into conflict with her Darkovan family because the women are expected to demure to the "better and wiser" judgement of the men. I like how Bradley always keeps in view her original premise of the colonists who were on Darkover by accident and had to breed new colonists in order to become viable as a colony. The whole of darkovan society is based on that fact.

Don't have too much time...glad to be back!

Nellie

Nellie: So Glad you're back. I note the books you report, and add them to my list. Picked up the Kress book. Can't find Freedom's Landing. I'm probably going to start the whole Pern cycle again, after reading Master Harper. TTFN.

I bought the final book in Dan Simmons' Hyperion series: Endymion Rising. It promises to be a good one if the first chapter is anything to go by. He does not talk down to people which I like; expects his readers to be intelligent. And a future society in which a religious group - that is the Catholic church- is a power to be reconned with is different and refreshing. I look forward to reading more of this book with great relish.

I did see all of the Freedom books by McCaffrey but didn't buy. Will probably look them up in the library and just borrow them. I can't buy every book in the world. Though I would love to

For one thing my house is to small.

be back soon, Nellie

Stephanie: Somehow I got the wrong Beggar book. The sequel to Beggars in Spain is Beggars Ride. It was quite a ride, all right, but I wish I had started at the beginning. Nancy Kress' has powerful themes.

Aha,, Beggars Ride.. Will check with Amazon on that. I did love the first one so much. Freedoms Landing is just great and there is a third one out. I suspect Anne wrote them all together. Havenot read MasterHarper yet... Just back and getting caught up.

Stephanie: You will doubtless learn, as I did, that Beggar's Ride is the third book. Welcome back. It has been so quiet with you gone, Ginny gone, Nellie gone. Now all of you are back I can log into SN and not feel like I'm talking to myself.

Hi All -

Ann McCaffrey's Freedoms Landing, Freedoms Choice and Freedoms Challenge are excellent! The series is a light, easy read, and as the plot unfolded I couldn't put it down.

Hello everyone:

Am still reading Endymion Rising and it is very good. I won't talk about it until I finish it, I think.

Am also reading two very different books from the library which were mention in a discussion in another forum. One is Marooned in Realtime by Vernor Vinge. This is a time travel story with a difference. People have the technology and ability to place houses, and even cities, or any piece of Earth in a bubble of time that runs at a different speed from the rest of time. In that way they make as much as million year journeys one way into the future. And to be left behind in "real time" can be terrifying.

The second book is Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson. The story is set in a time when everything is made using nanomachines, and concerns a book called A Young Lady's Primer which is made for a princess and falls into the hands of a common girl named Nell. Only read a few chapters but it is a good picture of a future that might be possible.

Jackie: I always feel better when I see new posts in the discussion; even though I would leave a small post anyhow seeing as I am the leader. But knowing someone else has been around is more heartwarming. Seeing a couple of posts in a row with my name on them does make me feel like I'm talking to myself, that's for certain.

Nellie

The Third,, must check the Amazon file for what the sequence is.. Love Kress...

Does anyone remember the name of a book written by A.E. VanVogt, I believe, in which society was devided as HiQ and LoQ. I vaguely remember the premise about an individual masking his intellectual ability so he could lead his own life. I'd like to revisit it if I can remember the name.

Brian: I remember that; I can almost see the cover! There are some SF links; Locus had a database of titles and authors. I'll do some digging among my bookmarks and get back to you. Deja vu all over again.

Here's something I hope some of you remember. I wish I could remember the title of the anthology, but it was a child's book, I guess, about people who were molded into the same physical shape? They would enter some sort of machine, and it would press their heads into a square shape, I remember that.

Gave me nightmares for years.

Does that ring any bells?

Ginny

I've been out of touch with the Sci-Fi world for a few years.. If I try to pick the habit up again, where should I start.Recommend one fairly recent book which is a MUST.I look forward to the suggestions. Jeff

Jeff, The problem is "Do you like fantasy, alternate worlds or hard sci-fi" Makes a real difference in what to reccomend.. Try any of Anne McCaffery. She is a true marvel. Steph

Jeff: If you like the hard stuff, McCaffrey's Freedom series of three is good space opera. Also, Nancy Kress, Beggar series of three, extrapolation into Earth's near future. I have enjoyed Charles de Lint's urban fantasy novels, contemporary Canada. It is never a waste of time to revisit old favorites. Welcome!

To Stephanie Hochuli and Jackie Lynch, thanks for the suggestions. I'll let you know what I think, but be patient, please. Jeff

Hello everyone!

Jeff: I can recommend without reservations Dan Simmons' Hyperion series. And anything by Sheri.S Tepper is usually a good read.

I'm afraid I haven't done any reading at all lately. It is nice to be away from the computer once in a while. And I've been having browser problems. I installed ICQ which, unbeknownst to me, replaced some files used by Netscape with a different version; as a result Netscape Communicator will no longer even start up. So I'm mainly using Opera which is nice and fast. And MSIE which crashes a lot. I have been searching for another alternate browser but no luck finding a good one yet.

For those who are interested my ICQ #15482456

Hopefully next time I will have read a book or so

!

Nellie

Nellie: Sorry about your troubles. I'm a dummy; what is ICQ?

Stephanie: Wow. And wow again. Beggars is Spain - I'm stunned. So much to think about. At first, I though, oh, no, Ayn Rand again? But this is heady stuff. Are the other book by Nancy Kress also so excitingly deep?

Jeff: I'm always months behind the recommendations I've seen here. If I can't get them at the library or the used book store, Barnes & Noble have moved on to something else by the time I get there. So it is like playing the lotto, lots of effort, some cash outlay, few rewards.

Jackie, I am still on the track of the other Nancy Kress. She has just stunned me with the one I read. I have called the other used book stores, but noone has anything. I am also looking for some of the older James White Space Hospital series. They are such fun and I just read a brand new one.. Steph

Jackie: ICQ(I Seek You) is a chat and messaging service similar to AOL Instant Messenger. You have people on a buddy list and you see when they come on line. You send messages back and forth, or chat with up to four persons.

Found another book by Susan Matthews with the same characters as in her other book, it is called An Exchange of Hostages and appears to be a prequel to the story told in the other book Prisoner of Conscience.

Marooned in Real Time by Vernor Vinge is a nice read. It was essentially a murder mystery in which the victim died of old age. Isn't that an interesting concept? The victim Martha is marooned in real time and lives out her life there away from the rejuvenation technology and the time slowing/travelling Bobbles that make people all but immortal. The perpretrator of the crime is also marooned in real time but with an added twist; he is provided with the best of robotic medical care to keep him alive for a long time. That is his punishment to spend an eternity on a world empty of people with only animals for company. There is another interesting idea in this book; that the human race at some point reached a new level of being, that of "energy being" more or less implied by what characters talk about. They call the disappearance of the human race "The Singularity"

Nellie

To Nellie,Jackie, Stephanie and anyone else who answered my Sci Fi query a big thanks. I've found a book club here in the UK that specialises in Sci Fi and Fantasy. I'll give it a whirl for a year, should put me back in orbit. I'll follow all your suggestions whenever possible

Ta.....Jeff

Jeff: Does this mean we won't be hearing from you for the nex year? How will we recognize you. I, for one, have an advanced case of CRS. Seriously, we hope you will stay, and share your reading with us. We rely on one another for good titles.

Stephanie: I hope you fond theother Nancy Kress' Beggars titles. I found one at the library and bought #3 in paperback. What a talent!

Jeff: do keep visting us, and share with us the good SF books you will be reading.

The Rise of Endymion is getting exciting! Raoul Endymion who has been sent out by Aenea is staying ahead of the Pax "creature" Radamanth Nemes just by a hair's breadth. I say "creature" because while she looks human Nemes is far from it. She seems to be a cyborg or robot; I haven't quite figured out which yet. Where I just left off last night Raoul has gone through another farcaster gate in his kayak and is plunging down to the next planet's surface from very high up. How's that for a cliffhanger?

Nellie

Nellie, Stephanie, and all:

This is my first visit to the SciFi forum. I haven't read any scifi in 40 years, I guess, but was not surprised to see Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, and some of the other greats mentioned in the top 100 list. What did surprise me was the absence of Edgar Rice Burroughs on the list. I read a scifi book by him in the thirties, which was very good (in my child's eye). Don't remember the title. Was it a Tarzan variant? Isn't he considered a viable contender? In 287 posts he was never mentioned. Please bring me in line with current thinking.

Oscar

Brian, I remember the story about the cultures being divided into high and low iq where the low iqs were the officials of the country and the high iq had lowly jobs and were running the country behind the scenes, sounds familiar in the not too distant past? Anyway I think it was a story by Pohl and Kornbluth..though the name escapes me..a good story was THE SPACE MERCHANTS and it might have part of the story in it..just go to an on-line bookstore and request to see the books by Kornbluth and you might remember the title if you're lucky. My favorite all time novel was MISSION OF GRAVITY by Hal Clement. Have read it 3 times and won't lend it,since this one is the 3rd copy I had to buy because others weren't returned..I am running out of space for my books and my husband swears the house (100 years old) is slowly sinking because of the weight of the books.

Welcome Oscar: I haven't thought of Edgar Rice Burroughs for a long time. I did have all his John Carter of Mars series at one time. Sad to say I lost them during a house move in which we lost a lot of nice things. I also had the Pelucidar series about the world inside our world. More books to find!

Welcome Fran: I like Mission of Gravity too, have read it a number of times; and it is in a stack of books I call my "to read again" books. There was also a sequel to it but can't come up with the name...

The Van Vogt book that was asked about previously: could it be The World of Nul-A?

Nellie

Nellie, thank you very much. It was John Carter of Mars. There was another book a friend of mine loaned me as a child that helped interest me in science fiction, but I can remember neither the title or author. Of course, I remember reading all the Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers comics and Big Little Books.

Oscar

To Class Clown (and othersa). Of course I'll keep in touch. What is CRS? Books that are my favourites, The Martian Chronicles, ( I have all three episodes on video and watch at least once a year), Stranger in a Strange Land, and Many, many years ago, when I was a young man I read Limbo '90 ( I think by Bernard Wolffe) I keep meaning to find if it's still available, I'd love to refresh my memory and would it still be as good, it seemed on a par with Brave New World. Jeff.

Jeff,

Can't Remember S***. Also sometimes CMS for Can't 'member S***.

Oscar

Jeff: CRS is shorthand for "Can't Remember S___". Glad you will be hanging around the old SF neighborhood.

The Van Vogt story was Slan, I think, which is being reissued, or something. (See above.) Heinlein also wrote about the divergence of the species into those with more effecient mentation and those with less. Can't remember the name of that one, though (see above).

Nellie: Didnt realize there was a sequal to Mission of Gravity ..so went to an on-line bookstore and put in an order for several of his out-of-print books and can only hope they can find some of them. It's surprising how many books they can locate for you. If they can't I go back at a later date and try again. Thanks for letting me know.

Hello everyone!

Fran: I think the sequel is called Starlight but am not totally sure. it is nice when you can find books by a favorite author even though they are out of print. Every year a local charity holds a very big used book sale in our nearby mall and I always go to see what's available among the SF books and the cook books; I have found long lost favorites that way, and interesting old cook books.

Have you ever read a book that has so many things happening and is so richly textured that you find it impossible to tell others exactly what it is about? I feel that way about The Rise of Endymion. I think this is in great part because it is a final instalment in a four book long story, and what comes before has influence and provides background for what happens in this book; and you do need that background. Simmons has created such a beautifully developed and detailed imaginary Universe filled with marvelous creatures and planets. His descriptions paint pictures in your mind. And any book(s) that can make the words disappear tend to be favorites of mine.

Aside: reminds me of time I read a good book as a young girl and saw the marvelous picture in it; but when I went to show it to someone else, the picture was not there: only words.

Am also reading another very interesting book: Darwin Among The Machines by George W. Dyson...it is not SF but chronicles the evolution of the machine/computer. There are some very interesting concepts in it. And did you know that someone already envisioned something like the Web in the 1600's? Samuel Butler did.

Very nice to see all this activity...thanks all of you! Nellie

I had a lot of the Mars and John Carter series in the store. They are collectibles in the original sci-fi editions. I feel very sentimental about the Gor stuff. I know it is old silliness now, but oh my as a teen, I did love the stuff.. Also the CS Lewis... Perelandra, etc. Of course when I originally read it, I saw it as Sci-fi and later discovered it to be an allegory.. Oh well.

Stephanie,

C. S. Lewis was a famous Christian apologist. Most of his books were allegories about good and evil. I'm not certain if I remember correctly, but I think he was a Church of England cleric.

Oscar

Oscar, Yes I discovered this later. However I stick to my original thoughts. The books were excellent as science fiction. , OK as allegories and I would guess, christian in atmosphere.. Although as I remember they were heavy on the darker side of life.

Hello all:

First an "ooops!" Butler lived in the 1800's not the 1600's. One of those moving keyboard keys again LOL!

I remember reading the C.S. Lewis books long, long ago. To me they were just good fantasy and science fiction stories. I never could see the Christian alegory, even after it was pointed out to me.

Read The Peace War by Vernor Vinge. Sounds like a real oxymoron doesn't it? Peace War! Actually the "Peace" is an organization that runs the world by suppression of technology. They came into power at the end of a set of major wars through the invention of the "bobbler" a device that places objects and people into their own little universe in which time stands still. But the Peace is opposed by an underground of people who have developed very advanced technology with the help of the original inventor of the bobbler. But after many years the underground is finally discovered by the Peace and has to fight for its life.

Nellie

I got some old Heinlin in trade onSaturday. Spotted one that dealt with the period before Stranger and have put it back. Dont believe I ever read it.. It is on the religious tyranny that preceded Stranger.. Odd.. but looks good.

Folks, if you drop by The Library, you'll find a discussion going on about that 100 Best list. Some are naming their top five, the ones they liked, remembered, etc. , not the "best" in literary terms. So, I started a list. 1. Left Hand of Darkness; 2. The Uncommitted(?) (le Guin's chilling life in a truly socialist society). When I got that far, I began to see a pattern! I will finish my list, and I will post it, but it gives me pause to realize how completely "corrupted" I am by science fiction.

Jackie: I'm just like you, most of my top books are SF or fantasy.

I'm busy working on something special to do with this discussion. You will find out what it is by and by. But it means I'm not getting much reading done.

Library book read: Eva Fairdeath by Tanith Lee. A dystopian world in which a young woman Eva drifts through life in the company of two young men; one a killer and the other a thief. She is as sullen and dark as the dreary world she inhabits. How her world has come to be in the state it is, is never explained; though it seems to be a very poluted world with places with lots of radiation, because there are many mutants and disfigured people. Eva herself and her two lovers Steel and Sail also seem to be a sort of mutant with their white hair and pale faces. I found her a sad and an immoral character; not entirely likable. As a result this was not a book I enjoyed much;although it is very well written.

Nellie

Recently I've discovered an author, L.E. Modesitt, Jr., who wrote the Recluse fantasy series, as well as Adiamante, what I would term a true science fiction novel.

This author is of particular interest to me because in his Recluse series he has established a world where the forces of Order versus Chaos, or Good v. Evil and the struggle to achieve Balance between the two forces is dealt with. So far I've read the first two volumes in this series, The Magic of Recluse and Towers of the Sunset, both of which were well done, except that in Towers he seems to have switched his writing style completely to one which seems far less professional. If anyone else has read these two books and noticed this differing style, I would be interested in your comments.

I've just begun Adiamante, which is very well written and deals with a very futuristic Earth trying to live nonagressively and in harmony with the planet after millennia of conflicts with technologically advanced forms of humans that have spread out over the universe.

Anyone else discovered this author? What are your impressions?

Peggy: I've heard of Modisett but haven't as yet read anything by him. At this point I have a list a mile long of good books and authors I simply "must" read. LOL I will need to live a long time to read them all. And I have to hope they are available in the library. I'm finding that the SF selections at the book stores we have here are very limited and sparse.

Just finished a rather neat story in the September issue of Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine called Market Report by Alexander Jablokov. I liked the concept of people from online virtual communities coming together to form a real community that was a duplicate of the online one. Which the central character's parents and their friends have done. Their hobby is restoring ancient, long extinct animals, including a sabertooth tiger, and living in a primitive way in a very modern neighbourhood.

Nellie

Hello all:

Paid a visit to the library yesterday and came back home with a few interesting looking books. Two are by Melissa Scott, whom I've never read before. The books are: Shadow Man, and Dream Metal. I couldn't find some of the other authors I was looking for which either means that they are not around or are very popular.

Just now finished a very good book called Machine Beauty by David Gelernter. Yes, it is factual; but some of the concepts in the book are those found in SF; such as the Lifestream program/concept. A very good book.

Nellie

I haven't been doing too much book reading lately; most of my reading seems to be on a computer screen as I go from one online community to the next. So I have a number of books in progress as always.

One is Shadow Man by Melissa Scott In which the human race has mutated into 5 different sexes. The story takes place on a planet where only the two basic male and female sexes are recognized. But there is tension and conflict caused by the presence of other humans from other planets. I love the different pronouns and nouns she uses for the different sexes. Unfortunately I can't show them here because they use characters not found in the normal alphabet, and I have no idea how I would make them show up or if I even can.

Another is The Age of Intelligent Machines by Raymon Kurzweil. While this one is not SF, it does stray into the realms of science fiction by the nature of its subject matter. A most fascinating book!

It has been very quiet in here lately. Everyone must be busy in their gardens? Or just out in the shade of a lovely tree relaxing with a good book they will be sharing with us on bad weather days.

Nellie

I'm starting to feel very lonely in my SF discussion. Where is everyone?

Peggy: I found at least one Modisett book in the library; one called Tangible Ghosts. I have read the first few chapters and it is an interesting alternate history in which ghosts are "real". In this version of history the Dutch still own and rule the northeastern states, and that is where the story takes place. I'm going to borrow more books of his because he does seem to be an interesting and different writer.

Nellie

Sorry Nellie.. My computer and i are quarreling.. It got struck by lightning and has a bunch of new stuff and does not like the old stuff, etc. The new mother board is not a lady at all. Altogether what a mess. Anyway I am reading yet another of the James White,, ingalactic hospital series. They are very formula, but I still enjoy them. This has a three part setup.. Three different rescues.. I think it is called Ambulance?? Sorry it is in my book bag for the store and am too lazy to go look. Steph

Stephanie: Poor you and poor computer! Sounds like its had some major transplant work done and there's some rejection going on.

I recognize the book you mean but can't come up with more than Ambulance either. I find he has quite a bit of humor in his stories. Now I can't think of the name of it; but have you read the one of the Earthling who becomes an intergalactic dentist and his first patient is a giant whale-like creature? Lots of humor in that one too.

Finished a rather odd book this morning. Odd in that all the action occurred in the last twenty pages or so. It was Shadow Man by Melissa Scott, and while her world and society was very well thought out and developed, I found the first couple of hundred pages a little on the boring side because that needed tension and excitement was not there.

Coming Soon:
THE GREAT SCIENCE FICTION:
SCAVENGER HUNT!

Nellie

I suppose I now have everyone busy going through their books and memories to find the items and books for The Great Science Fiction Scavenger Hunt?

I think I may have found a new author to like Nancy Kress. I really like Maximum Light. It has a somewhat different concept of the future, and a mystery: chimps with human faces, the face of a young dancer who has had all his memories erased. Very good.

I'm thinking of the book list for The Library. Trouble is that most of the books that have affected me are SF ones and I don't know if they count. There is one though that has affected me the most...not SF; I should nominate it for the list.

Nellie

Nellie: My lisat will have SF books on it. I grew up in a household where prejudice was rampant. Somehow, it didn't seem "right" to my child's mind, ,maybe because prejudice is illogical. But SF, when I found this exciting genre, allowed me to see life in a way that celebrated its variety. So prejudice went away. So also did a lot of my careless attitude towards resources. Big changes, so far. MAN's need to control and remake, his competiveness, his wars, I could see permutations and results carried out to the nth degree. Simak's dogs, for example. Anyway, SF will be on my list and very prominently featured. I like to think that the person I am is the better for SF.

Yes, Nellie, Sci-fi is always on my best list. I know people dont understand, but the genre lends itself to thinking of what if and does it magnificently.

The recent "Best" list by Michael Dirda in the heading of the Library lists a book called Tik Tok about a mannerly robot who goes about killing people by John Stadik?

I am unable to find this book anywhere, even on the used book sellers, is this one you've all read?

Ginny

Ginny: No I haven't read that one. But then I can't read every book there is...though I would love to ;-]

I will be adding to the list of books I love; as soon as I narrow it down a lot more. Most will be SF; what else gives you more insight into what it means to be human than that?

Do you think if they did not call SF books SF and placed them in among the other novels that more people would read them? I think people are thrown off by the word "science" which they associate with people who are some sort of technological genius. But is more about imagining what our future society might be like, than it is about science. Science fiction does require more effort from people because it needs you to use your imagination to a greater extent than a mainstream novel; you need to form pictures in your mind of things which may bear some resemblance to things that already exist; or you have to picture worlds and things never seen. And that is just what I love about it.

Nellie

My brain is cottage cheese these days, but I think that may be John Sladek. I'll look it up in the Locus data base.

John Sladek wrote Tik Tok; he is the author of the Roderick books, about a robot growing up. I have read Roderick, it is funny. Tik Tok won the British Science Fiction Award. I shall have to put his name on my used book store list!

JACKIE!! Thank you, it's possible that the search engines of the various sources I use have thrown it out because of my spelling?

Thanks so much, with new hope I go forth,

Ginny

I found it! On Bibliofind, hope it's still available, have written the Bookseller, thanks so much, now if I can only find RUR I will rest!

Ginny

Nellie: Nancy Kress is the author of the fantastic Beggars trilogy. I will look for this title; I really like her ideas.

I paid a visit to the library yesterday and had to control the desire to drag half the books in their vast collection home with me. I found a Michael Bishop book that looked good; and Andre Norton, another Modesitt, and a new author named Barton- well he's probably not that new but I haven't read him before so he's new to me.

I'm going to find more of Kress, there was nothing there so I know she is popular. I know she did lots of stories in Asimov's Magazine; I'll have to see if I can find some of my old copies and reread.

Nellie

Nellie -

Some years ago when I was a "shelver" at our library, I noticed that some books were being designated as Science Fiction, when it seemed to me that they would be read more widely if they were in a general Fiction category. So, I asked our librarian how books are designated as to category and by whom, and she told me that she, herself, was the sole designator! I would have thought that maybe the author would have the say as to how their book is categorized, but not so. I noticed that if a book had any use of "magic" in it, she would stick a sci fi label on it. Too bad, because some books in the fantasy/magic realm graphically illustrate complex metaphysical/philosophical/moral issues and would be enjoyable to general fiction readers.

Just finished "Eon" by Greg Bear. Good story! I too have noticed that anything about "magic" gets a book thrown into F/SF category. Not always fair.

Nellie, still trying to find your Virtual Town, and not having any luck. Oh, well--keep up the good work here! (I'm vsop somewhere else.)

Tik Tok was just great. But Sladek is quite difficult to find. So is Nancy Kress. Since I am in the business, have been looking for Nancy Kress locally ever since reading the first Beggars which I adored. No luck in 22 used book stores.. How about those odds. Steph

Nellie: The scavenger hunt is neat. but I dom't know any of them! Thanks for giving us until December 1 to work onit. (Broke my glasses, so forgive my typos.)

PEGGY KOPP -- re: your "shelving category" info -- I remember being stunned to find "The Journal of the Plague Year" by Daniel Defoe in the medical section of my local library!

Has anyone here read "The Ship Who Sang" -- a very early book by Anne McCaffrey (before her less memorable joint writings with others) It's been a true favorite with my whole family.

A::" This is my natural home, I think, but I read contemporary Horror books too and find none of them here. In fact this is a whole new list for me. I'll check-em out though and see if I can find them. I'm still a faithful TRekki and X-Filer, but that's TV. Did anyone mention the DUNE series? I liked the first two, after that it bored me.

I think I want a portion of credibility to be there, or I can't identify with the characters. Anyone else on this issue? Startrek is about relationships=my meat and potatoes. I keep expecting us to have their capabilities too.

Claire

Hello everyone!

I have added a clue to the Scavenger Hunt to help in finding one of the books!

Welcome to Suzanne, Patria, and Claire. I love to see new faces!

Patria: Yes I have read The Ship who Sang. In fact it is on my list of top ten all time favorites. Always brings tears to my eyes when I read it.

Claire: I too like and read contemperary horror such as that written by Stephen King. Maybe I'll suggest that I start a horror book topic for those of us who like that type of literature. I love the Star trek shows too, and X-Files, and adore Babylon 5, and Millenium.

Suzanne: Hi vsop! Eon is a very good one. And there are a couple of other books that take place in the same setting: Eternity, which is labelled a sequel, and Legacy, which is labelled as a prequel to Eon.

The Virtual Town square? Can you get to Netscape's Netcenter? http://home.netscape.com/ is the URL. Then click on discussion groups. You will most likely have to register as you can't see the discussions unless you do. Once you see the discussions, find Working the Web, look for Web Culture and click it; then just look for The Virtual Town Square...Hope to see you around there. Since you can take the weirdness at our Star trek discussion, you can handle the weirdness there! LOL.

Nellie

I just finished reading an old Andre Norton which she co-authored with P.M. Pilgrim called Redline the Stars. It is one of her Solar Queen Free Trader stories. A fast read and very enjoyable.

Very quiet in here. LOL I can see us all busy with piles of books trying to narrow down our favorites to ten choices.

Wonder if I should suggest a whole separate list for SF in the Library?

And I've been putting up clues in the Scavenger Hunt to help you out with finding the books.

Nellie

Nellie: Top ten sf? Great idea. I've been re-reading Gael Greeno's Gatti trilogy. Still coping with no car; it sits there but it needs at least one more trip to the car hospital. Cuts down on my access to different books, so been using my own library. The Scavenger Hunt is very entertaining. Takes serious work, and I haven't been serious in a long time! Keep it up Nellie.

Jackie: So you are trying the Scavenger Hunt? I was not sure if anyone was doing it, or at least attempting it. I didn't want to make it too easy but don't know if I made it too hard. That's why I started adding the little clues. I do one a week because it takes me that long to come up with the clue and rhyme. LOL my brain does not work that fast any more. Actually it never worked fast. I've always been a very slow thinker; mainly because I have to look at everything twenty ways from Sunday. I'm a person who can argue both sides of an argument. LOL I've been known to drive people up a big tall wall, since as soon as they come around to my point of view, I start arguing their side.

You have heard that my grandmother passed away last week on Friday? We buried her ashes in the backyard yesterday and planted a pretty potentilla shrub on top: grandma's bush we call it now. We had a little private family remembrance ceremony. All in all simple and nice.

In progress of reading L.E Modesitt's Parafaith War. Not bad so far. Is about a war between Eco-techs who are in the business of terraforming planets and the followers of THe Prophet called Revenants who seem to obey the biblical dictate "be fruitful and multiply" greatly to heart; who attack and take over the planet when it is at the stage that people can live on it without having to wear special gear.

Nellie

Nellie: I'm so sorry. I did't know that you had lost your grandmother. My grandmother, GiGi, died in 1984, and I still miss her. She was 90. We were close, I was her first grandchild. Grandma's Bush sounds so nice. Does it bloom? How comforting to be able to do visit grandma when you want.

Thank you, Nellie, for the Scavenger Hunt and the clues. I downloaded the list to my desktop, so I can work on it in spare moments. Only two more months!

Nellie -

No, I hadn't heard that your grandmother passed on. What a wonderful way to remember her with a "grandma's bush"! I'm very happy for you that you had the experience of knowing your grandma. Mine had both passed on by the time I was born and so I missed out on the opportunity to know the relationship with a "grandma".

Peggy

My grandmother lived just one week beyond her 100th birthday. So she had a long life. The bush is a yellow flowered potentilla, full of flowers in the summer.

Jackie: The time limit is not totally set in stone but I thought since a real Scavenger Hunt usually has a time limit mine should too.

Parafaith War gives a person something to think about. The question of "blind faith" in a system. The hero of the story has as much blind faith in the system he fights for as the people he fights have in theirs. And yet he is totally unaware that he has this blind faith. He is also in a study being done by a group of aliens called Farhkans and the alien who interviews him asks some odd questions; such as does he consider himself a thief, and a liar? So far he has answered neither question. And the alien considers merely using resources that someone else could have used as theft. It will be interesting to see what answer our hero will eventually give.

Nellie

Love the Grandmas bush.. That sounds as if the sort of thing that I would love to have when I die. My grandmothers were fond of boys and not girls, so our relationships were a bit rocky. One at least started me on the way to cooking. I am trying to do that for our 3 year old granddaugther. She and I are enjoying our cooking sessions and she always is very enthusiastic about our cooking ( and as a byproduct eats what she cooks)

Stephanie: and with your great love of books I'll bet your little granddaughter is gaining a love and appreciation of books as well.

Visited the bookstore today. If I ever win one of those big lotteries I'll clean the whole place out LOL. Did come away with three new books, all that I could afford. One is Tad William's Otherland which was highly recommended to me by someone who is reading it at another site. One is by a new author, Gabriel King called The Wild Road, more of a fantasy than SF, and one totally non SF Primal Scream by Michael Slade (a good one to discuss or mention in my soon to debut Horror books discussion)

Parafaith War: in the final section the hero is sent to the main world of the Revenants to assasinate one of their leaders. While there he learns that the Revs are not quite the inhuman monsters he imagined but just regular people. So instead of just doing the assasination he comes up with a plan that will lead ultimately to peace. He still does assasinate the general because he realizes the old must go before the new can begin. And the question the Farhkan asked him? He answers in the negative.

Nellie

Nellie: Your reviews are so good. You make each new book seem like it is the best one ever. Thanks for sharing them with us.

I think I have four of the Scavenger Hunt names identified. And glimmerings for some of the others. Do you want them all at once, or name by name? Seems like it would be easier on you to do them all at once.

Jackie: All at once for the scavenger hunt is best; it has to go like a real scavenger hunt and I think people only return when they have found as many of the items on the list as they possibly can. Also in case two of you find the same number of books, the one's whose complete list came in first would win.

Going through books can be hazardous <G> I rediscovered my Chalker's Flux and Anchor series and have so far read the first book. I'm not totally sure what Flux is, but it is something that is changable by people who have the powers to do so. These people are called wizards. The main aspect of Flux seems to be change. The Anchors are places where things do not change.These anchors are controlled by the Church which is run by priestesses and based on the worship of the Great Mother. The story begins in Anchor Logh where a group of young people come to the capitol for the Rite of Paring. Our heroinne Cass is among them. The rite is a form of population control in which a number of young people are given to Stringers to be used or sold as slaves in the Fluxlands. Cass and her friends are given to a Stringer called Matson. And in their journey into the Flux they become embroiled in a war between wizards, one of whom is attempting to open one of the Hellgates, a portal to another dimension. In the process Cass discovers that she is a powerful wizard and that she carries a being called a Soul Rider within her; and she spreads the influence of the Church into Flux.

This book was called Soul Rider by Jack Chalker.

I have many of Chalker's series, all good to read.

Nellie

I have had the greatest week and birthday ever! This is not very science fictiony but have to tell it somewheres where my friends can see it, so...

On Monday I was at the Book Clubs party looking at the pictures and trying to see if I could figure out who was who, when mom asked me if I would like to upgrade the RAM in my computer. So off to the place I know of where they upgrade computers. But nothing could be done for my old one, so I got a half new one. I got a new motherboard with a Pentium 233Mhz CPU, a 4.3G hard drive, 32MB RAM and then my CD-ROM, sound card, network card all stayed the same, also got a new case. And went from Windows 3.1 to Windows 98; some change isn't it? Now I'll finally be able to take advantage of all those hints and problem solving in Computer Q&A for Win 98.

So on Wednesday I had my new computer but had to install the new drivers for the network card. They wouldn't install. So called the computer place and they said bring the computer back in and they would help. So they did get them installed and I happily returned home, eager to get on the internet again. You can imagine my disappointment when I couldn't get connected. So I called my ISP and we checked everything out; all was fine. But no internet. I tried everything I could think of without success. Until this morning when I read in the Win 98 help that if you cancel the Windows login it does not allow you access to the "network". So setting myself a user name and password and restarting and logging in solved my problem. And am I ever glad. As you know I have a cable modem and Windows thinks I'm on a very large LAN. And it is so fast now!

So with all the thinking about the computer and trying to learn Win 98 which is different from my old windows and yet not so different to make things impossible. I have those desktop themes and am using the science one at the moment. I love the busy signs especially the bubbling beaker.

glad to be back!! Nellie

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, NELLIE {{^.^}}

You've just done what I've been wanting to do for a while now....upgrade! I have a P100 and I've got my eye on 300 to 450 mhz CPU, but they're a little expensive hahahahaha. Also desperately need a larger hard drive. I started with 800mg then added 1.7g and it's almost full. Sure seemed like enough space at the start LOL

Windows 98 I'm not too sure about yet. I started with Win95 OSR2 and I know the major benefit of Win98 is the OSR2 system. Let us know how you make out with 98....I see a lot of tech questions about problems and MS is constantly issuing patches and upgrades for it.

It's Thanksgiving weekend here in the frozen north and I'm off for a turkey dinner at my ex's. First time in years I haven't cooked my own! I'll miss the leftovers

Have a great weekend !

Happy Happy Birthday, Nellie!!

Windows 98 to me is like a BRAVE NEW WORLD, almost Science Fiction! Going to rely on you for advice when I get a new computer right after Thanksgiving when prices will doubtlessly be rock bottom! hahahahahah

Ginny

Nellie: Happy, happy birthday. Only we computer nerds can appreciate what a wonderful way to start a new year of computing.

I am particularly fond of Libra people, having given birth to two of them myself. My son's birthday is October 3 and my daughter was born three years and one week later on October 10. There's one more good reason for you to be one of my favorite people!

How's it going, Nellie? At work I have Windows NT; it is just enough like my beloved MAC that I can limp around in the system. Hope you are faring well with Windows 98.

I just re-read Fire Rose, by Mercedes Lackey. A fantasy, takes place in San Francisco bay area, at the time of the earthquake. Held up well the second time.

A previes of another book was titillating: Glen Raven, by M arion Zimmer Bradley and something Lisle? Heather Lisle? Any one read that? Glen Raven is a small pocket country between France and Italy, who has had its borders closed for the last 400 years. However, for a brief time, it is allowing tourists to enter. Wow! A look at society as it was lived four hundred years ago!

WOW, Nellie! Some B'day present! Many, many more Happy ones to you.

So, are you 40-something, now?

HAPPY BIRTHDAY.. HAVE A WONDERFUL TIME. I married a Libra , he will be a birthday boy on Thursday. I think it is Holly Lisle. If so she is a young SF writer, funny, witty and fantasy.. I like her a lot. Mary Brown is another young one with a true sense of skewed events.

Wish I were 40-something LOL but those days are behind me, it's 50-something; see I'm over the hill already ;->

Thank you all for the birthday wishes. I just love my present, the best one ever. I like Windows 98. Do have lots to learn though because things are a bit different from Win 3.1 but it should not take me long. So far it is behaving very well but I've only had it a week so it may be to early to tell. I long ago came to the conclusion that the less you fiddle around with a program the better it works for you; though you sometimes have to discover by trial and error which settings the program prefers.

I use what is called the Active Desktop, I think. Anyways everything is like a Web page and every window has the back and forwards buttons like in the browser. I have both NEtscape and IE(that one is part of Win 98 of course) and I even run both at the same time with no trouble. Maybe I have some sort of special power that works on computers which makes them work so well for me?

Am halfway through Manhattan Transfer by John Stith. In this book the whole island of Manhattan is literally ripped from the Earth and taken aboard a giantic alien ship and placed among a collection of other domed cities. The humans are soon going out exploring. They first come to one alien city in which all the inhabitants have commited suicide because it turned out only one sex had been kidnapped. In the part I'm reading now the humans are with an aborial people who live in giant trees and are telepathic and very sensitive to radio signals. While the one group is exploring there is an uprising brewing in the Manhattan dome. I have to read more to find out what happens, and if they find out more about the aliens who kidnapped them. They did learn one very disturbing thing from the telepaths and that is that all the remaining population of the telepath's planet was destroyed after their city was taken.

Nellie

Finished Manhattan Transfer this morning. After finding out that the aliens seemed to destroy the planets they kidnapped cities from the humans send out a sabotage party to disable the alien ship so that it cannot destroy the earth. They do succeed in their mission but discover in the process that the aliens which look like giant spiders, are on a rescue mission to save at least a part of the population of planets targetted by another alien ship called the Planet Shaper. Of course the humans don't want to give in without a fight for their home planet, so they convince the Archies as they call the aliens to help them destroy the Planet Shaper. Do they succeed? Yes but I won't say how and what other things they discover: a liitle must be left for you to find out.(smile)

Nellie

Have been rereading some old Heinlen . He did such neat planet space men type at the beginning of his career. This one is about Thorsby and his adventures. Very space opera and fun.

Stephanie: one of the first Heinlein books I bought was The Star Beast which I enjoyed a lot. And didn't he do Destination Moon? I read so many things by so many different authors that I sometimes have trouble remembering who wrote what LOL

I have most of his older stories in a big fat book called The Past Through Tomorrow. Wonder if some of the stories you are reading are in there?

I must have hit the wrong key because my Africam window just popped up. Have you seen that? They have cameras set up at a watering hole and another that roams; if you are lucky you will see animals. So far I've not had the luck...

Nellie

Nellie: Please post the URL of your Africam. How neat to watch African wildlife! SeniorNet has made my life so much richer, I can hardly believe what wonders I've learned about here.

Jackie: here is the URL for the Africam:
Africam and I'll write it out too: http://www.africam.mweb.co.za

You have to be on just at the right time. People who live in the eastern end of the country seem to have more luck in seeing animals than I do...They've seen elephants, lions, zebra, antelopes, wild dogs, and hyenas. So you can see lots of interesting things.

Let us know if you see any interesting animals.

Nellie

Nellie, Thanks for the URL. Put it on my bookmarks.. Nothing doing just now.. late at night. Heinlen had a tremedous output and loved short stories. I have the collection you are talking about. Some of fun.. Others nada..

Nellie: Thanks. When I visited the waterhole, it was 4:44 am there, 7:44 pm PDT. Maybe I'll have better luck after we go off daylight savings time this weekend. Still, it was such a thrill to "be" in Africa, live, real-time!

Found an old series written by Piers Anthony and got into reading it again. The books are Cluster,Chaining the Lady, and Kirlian Quest. I am reading Cluster and it is about Flint of a planet called Outworld who has a very powerful Kirlian aura and hence his aura is able to be projected into the bodies of other creatures that are hurt or dying. The task he has been given is to pass on the secret of Kirlian transfer to other sentient beings to prepare them for the possible destruction of the galaxy.

Nellie

Stephanie: Looked up Holly Lisle; no Glen Raven, but she co-authored When The Bough Breaks with Mercedes Lackey. It is about Elves; some of them drive race cars. This is apparently a series, SERRAted Edge. Good writing, wit, good characterization. Can you recommend one Holly Lisle has written alone?

Jackie, Will have to check. She may have written in Anne McCaffery's ship world,,not sure just this minute. The old PiersAnthony sounds good. Dont particularly like xanth... Love the Mode ones however...Also the computergame one,, cannot remember the name, but it was good.

I found Glenraven, one-word. Will let you know how it goes.

I paid a visit to the library with my younger sister last week and left loaded with books as usual. I always promise myself I'm only going to check out one, maybe two, but then I keep seeing more and more books I know I want to read or that look interesting...you know how it is when you love books and reading. Found two Nancy Kress books which promise to be good reading if the first chapters are anything to go by. One is Beggars Ride, and the other Brain Rose.

Another book that has begun very well and caught my attention is Wyrm by Mark Fabi - not an author I've heard of before. The story involves a computer virus or more properly speaking a "worm" program that infects and eventually brings to a halt all the computers in the world with all the resultant chaos that brings. But things are not yet at that stage where I'm reading now. So far the hero, an expert on computer viruses and worms has taken on the job of finding and removing a virus from a chess playing program. One mystery is how the program got the virus since the computer it is on was specially built for it and it was never in contact with the outside world. So sabotage by someone on the inside is suspected...

I couldn't get on yesterday at all...everything situated on the U.S. west coast seemed "unreachable". That's the Net I suppose; doesn't always work the way we want it to (smile)

Nellie

Nellie: Wyrm sounds like a real treat. Have been lazing away the weekend reading. Glenraven is a fun ride. Typical bodice ripper, except . . .

OK.. Holly Lisle wrote Curse of the Black Heron ( newish) and older Bones of the Past and Minerva Wakes.. The last is pretty funny. A good example of the younger generations fiction is Rick Cook... "Mall Purchase Night" Oh my I did lol...

You are both giving me a long list of book to look out for LOL. But I guess I do the same for you, don't I?

I haven't done very much reading lately; well not books anyways, I'm trying to get caught up on a big pile of magazines...National Geographic, Discover, PC Computing, PC Computer, Yahoo Internet Life, Martha Stewart, Bon Appetite, Canadian Dogs Annual, Horticulture, Canadian Gardener...lots ansd lots.

Nellie

IMy daughter picked one out that I liked: Taliesin. I think it was written by Stephen Greenleaf. Survivors of Atlantis find shelter in Britain near the end of the Roman occupation. The book is part one of four parts, and it ends with the birth of a child named Merlin. A good read, lot of threads so its intellectually involving, good character development: I really cared about them. I hope the author can sustain these qualities. Let you know.

Enjoy the mags, Nellie.

Began reading Brain Rose by Nancy Kress last night. This book is about the main characters all having an operation done that allows them to experience memories of past lives; at the same time their is a plague going on in which a slow virus destroys the memory abilities of the brain, so that there are many people who live in a single day, or even the same hour over and over because that is all they can remember.

Kress comes up with such imaginative futures; so different from the "everyone has left Earth and is galivanting around the Universe" stories. Not that I don't like those mind you. I do consider SF the literature of "what If?" and there can be many aspects to consider as to what the future holds; or what may exist elsewhere in the universe.

Jackie: I'm lurking in your Symbolic Species discussion, and if I can find the book in the library, I'll try to join in...

Nellie

Nellie: Thanks. I need all the help I can get on this one. Such a deep book. I wish I had more time.

Nancy Kress is truly an original thinker. I'll put Brain Rose on my list.

Brain Rose sounds wonderful. So far on Nancy, I have found only one of the books. Nellie. Could you click Africam for me..I had a hard drive disaster, lost all of my bookmarks and cannot figure out how to retrieve that one. Got a new hard drive, etc, but today I have managed to lose my ability to find my email. Whew.. Somedays I hate technology.

Jackie--are you sure the Taliesin book wasn't by Stephen Lawhead? If so, it and the other three are darn good reads! Then go to The Mists of Avalon, by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Then---whoops! I'd better not get started, or I'll be going on all the day!

suzanne: You are right, it is Lawhead. The other three books are up to the standard of the first one? Great. I've read Bradley, of course, but missed Avalon. Thanks.

Nellie: I dropped in to your home page. Those graphics are charming. Maybe I should "hire" you to do my home page. I can't seem to find the motivation. Maybe because I spend most of my workday on the computer I avoid serious activities at home? Right now I am beginning intensive study on Access, Microsoft Office's database. I have been working on my own, trial-and-error, but will spend 32 hours in the next four weeks in class. I really enjoy the versatility of database software. Not much reading, except for Symbolic Species. That is enough for an entire semester. Drop in on us. We'll be getting into the evolution of the brain next.

I'm not ignoring my poor SF discussion. Just have had trouble getting into SN, as usual it seems. I finished Kress' Beggars Ride. Loved it. Now I need to read the other books in the series. But first I'm reading Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun series.

Jackie: I could be available for making a home page. I need practice and more samples; sort of like an online portfolio. I just got Symbolic Species from the library and read the first two chapters so far with copious note taking. But when I read the discussion I'm not sure I'm reading the same book. Somehow the things that catch my interest in the book don't seem to be the ones catching everyone else's interest. But after I read some more will attempt to join in as best I can. I will say this the book does make me think about language.

Nellie

Nellie: That is my feeling, too. I'm trying to really "get" Symbolic Species" and it is taking me a long time. So, if you want, let's poke along at our own speed. Tell me what you are thinking. I know how you think and I'm eager to hear your thoughts. LJ and Ros can spped through if they want, I need to go more slowly. Glad you are joining in.

Jackie: I left my first little post in the Symbolic Species discussion. I wasn't sure I dared to at first. LJ is so brilliant it scares me; her posts are so intelligent.

Finished the first book in the Book of the Long Sun series. It is titled Nightside of the Long Sun. In it we are introduced to the hero Patera Silk an Augur in a poor parish who runs a school; and who has had his home and school sold out from under him at the start of the story. Silk goes to the home of the rich person who bought his home to break in with the idea of forcing him to give back the house; but it ends up with Silk being given a month to find enough money to pay for it. The people of Whorl as they call the place they live seem to have an almost medieval lifestyle. Though the rich have aircars or floaters; and there seem to be androids called Chems. Silk has three female chems who work for him; they appear to be much like nuns. And everywhere there are "windows" through which the gods used to speak to the people.

very good start to the series...Nellie

Nellie, Written by who?? Sounds neat..

Nellie: LJ is a man. He is a neurologist, so he knows about brains. But he is also an educator, therefore encouraging us to think and speak. A good interpreter of Deacon. Have you been to The Library lately? We are talking about setting up a new group on Woman's Issues. What do you think?

Stephanie: Gene Wolfe is the author. IMO he is one of the best in SF. The story continues in Lake of the Long Sun. Patera Silk is given a new possible way to get the funds to redeem his house. That is by getting them from a Doctor Crane who works for Blood the new owner of the manse and church, as I will call it; and who appears to be a spy for some other city in Whorl. Silk goes with the woman Chenille, and the man Oak to Limna Lake where he hopes to find Crane. He learns that Crane often goes to a shrine to the goddess Schylla. Silk goes there and ends up in an underground tunnel by accident where he is attacked by a war robot called a Talus. He manages to destroy it using a laser sword. He cannot open the door back to the outside, and as I left him was traveling further down the tunnels...I have also learned that Whorl was once ruled by someone with the title of Calde, and that the last one had had a frozen embryo brought to term but that no one knew what happened to the child. ( I have a very good idea as to whom it is)

Jackie: For some reason I was under the impression that LJ was female. And now I understand his interest in the brain; he's a neurologist. But he has made me feel most welcome in the discussion. No I haven't been to the library lately, have over a hundred posts to catch up on. I was having trouble getting into SN or staying in if I got in. Also I tried bookmarking both the Forums front page and the login page but when I click on the bookmark in the browser or on the desktop I get this strange page that asks only for my password, and when I give the password I get the real login page. I wonder if that is some new security thing?

Nellie

I finished the Book of the Long Sun series which was very good but so full of different characters and things happening that it is hard to recap. Suffice it to say that the story is about people living in a multi-generational starship, and who must be driven from their home, since they have arrived at last where they were going.

I've been busy lately. On Monday I went to an information seminar on a new course of study being offered at the university called Object Oriented Technology. It is a diploma program consisting of six months classroom study and four months paid internship. And I'm applying for it. Tomorrow I'll write up my resume and print it out (got a new printer at last) and then I have to see about getting a transcript from the university from my old sojourn there. All that must be done by the seventh of December, so I don't have much time. If I get in I'll really be exercising my brain.

Nellie

Nellie!! How fabulously exciting, keep us posted!!

Ginny

Nellie, good luck on your education effort! Think of the things you will be able to teach us! WHeeeeee! Must read the Long Sun books; they sound wonderful! Found a MUST HAVE for all dragon afficionados on your Christmas list: A Diversity of Dragons,by Anne McCaffrey (who else?) is a historical overview of Dragonkind in literature and religion. It is told in the form of a story, and really lovely illustrations combine with the text for a wonderful book. It is outsize--very large--but well worth getting. The text is probably a little advanced for anyone under High School reading levels, but younger readers will be enchanted by the illustrations. If you have a dragon lover on your list, look no further!

My reading is going by the wayside for now I fear. I'm poking along in various books and getting nowhere fast. Often I will be reading and thinking about all the things I have to do to apply for the course. I prepared my resume and printed it out, so thats set.

Found a "new" Sheri Tepper book called Weed. Haven't yet started reading it but it looks interesting.

I will keep an eye out for the dragons book. I do have a book on dragons but not by McCaffrey; mine is called Flight of Dragons by Peter Dickinson.

Nellie

Errandum: the Sheri Tepper book is not Weed but The Family Tree. LOL I knew it had something to do with plantlife.

I'm reading an interesting series by Octavia E. Butler called Exogenesis which has one of the most fascinating alien species I've come across in SF: the Oankali, traders in genetic materials, who want to change what remains of the human race into something both human and Oankali.

Nellie

I've read Octavia Butler, but not this one. I'll add it to my list.

Ive read Octavia Butler, but not that one either. She is usually interesting. I just finished the Stirling,, that is a sequel to one of the ships he did in the Anne McCaffrey world. This one is about Joat, who was the feral little girl with Simon. Not as good as the Simon book, but not bad.

"Test y'r memory m' deary . . ." There are a couple of books in the old Space Oprey tradition that deal with a race called simply "the Others," who are not perceived as benevolent, and who are highly advanced. I can't remember who wrote the darn things, but I know it was someone who also wrote a lot of other books. The titles have nothing to do with the Others. Can anyone remember?

Did anybody see the movie, Starship Trooper, and was it anything like the book? Was it any good? Thinking about renting it. What say you?

Suzanne: Now I will spend the rest of the day thinking about "THe Others" and which books they were in...sounds so familiar, so I know I have read the books at one time or another.

Everyone: maybe we should put together a list of the most interesting aliens in SF? I think that would be fun. There is no hurry with it, we can take as much time as we want. I have a few in mind already but will keep mum for now...

Nellie

Nellie: Great idea! What fun we will have.

Suzanne: I, too, have vague memories of The Other race. Will wrack my brain. What else are friends for?

My Dear Nellie: My thoughts and my prayers are much on you these days. Waiting for news can be so difficult. I so hope that you are accepted into the program you have applied for.

Nellie -

You mentioned Octavia E. Butler's, Exogenesis, and I'm wondering if it is a new publication. I had read it some time ago and checked without success at my local library to see if she had published anything new.

It is a very good story of a unique species.

Peggy: Exogenesis is not new; the books I have from the library date from 1987 to 1989. Our library has quite a good SF collection as I'm discovering. While not kept separate from the other books, most are marked as SF, but sometimes I find ones that have not been marked.

Jackie: I got a call yesterday morning from the university to set up an appointment for the interview part of the application process. I go on Monday afternoon. The interview consists of a programming aptitude test, and a face to face interview. So I'm a bit closer to getting into the course. I'm feeling very optimistic at this moment.

I have been doing something very different the last couple of days; different and daring. I've been trying out a new browser program, and this one is so new it is not even really a program as yet. It is one of course but not in the way we usually think of one. This one does not install and runs through a special viewer program; it is the alpha builds of what will become the next Netscape. I'm going to download todays build to see which things have become functional and what other little changes have occured.

Nellie

Nellie, You are sobrave.. So far both Outlook Express and the most advanced netscape both turned my computer screen black and non functioning.. I have given up on new stuff just now.. I remember The Other, but cannot remember where from. The starship trooper did not get good reveiws.. It was a fun book that I read years ago, sort of an older juvenile type. I personally loved "The People, No Different Flesh" by Zenna Henderson. She only wrote a few things many years ago and if you run into them.. Read them.. She was a teacher and the books are just wonderful.

Zenna Henderson: What a delight her stories were. One of them made it to TV with, I believe, William Shatner. The Gathering, it was called. I must reread her.

Well I did the test and the interview. The test was timed and had very little to do with computers; the first section was words and I had to pick the best defintion; that was not hard. The second part was lots of math stuff; much harder. Then was an alphabetical series thingie where you had to say which comes next; so so. The last part was the only thing that resembled anything to do with computer programming; and that was filling in parts of flowchart diagrams; I think I did quite good on that part. Now I have to wait until next week to finally find out if I'm chosen as one of the lucky 30 people or not.

I love the Zenna Henderson stories too.

Stephanie: I can understand you not wanting to try some of the newest browsers etc when all you get is a blank screen. I would find that disconcerting too. I often wonder why everything works so well on a computer for me. It's not because I know more than others; I think most other people know a lot more about computers than me. Maybe it is because I don't fool around with my computer very much? Some day I will figure it out LOL. Meanwhile I won't look a gift horse in the mouth, figuratively speaking.

Nellie

Nellie: I bet you aced the exam. I know that you are an omniverous reader, so nothing about words can cause you problems. Plus, I know you are a computer whiz kid. More talent than we can shake a stick at (What in the world does that mean?) Besides, SeniorNet is on your side. Did you tell them at the University that they have a potential audience of millions of militant seniors if they don't take you?

Stopped for milk tonight; there is a "new" used bookstore there. Right in the window was Pinkney's book, so I grabbed it ($5). While the book is being rung up I spot Zenna Henderson's complete collection of People stories. The will hold it for me til payday, Friday. What luck!

LOL Jackie what a picture I get of millions of irate seniors e-mailing the university and marching upon it in droves. I must be patient and just wait for the news. Of course I'm indulging in the famous game of second guessing...but I had figured that based on my very sparse resume they would never call me in for the interview part and they did. At the moment I figure I don't stand much of a chance because I did not talk the interviewer's ears off. But then I never talk anyone's ears off. But I have this idea that in a good interview you do just that. On the other hand computer programmers work with computers and don't necesarily need to be brilliant conversationalists on the job.

Isn't it nice when you spot a book you have been looking for at a very reasonable price?

Nellie

Ah, Nellie, you are a shoo in. The only reason you may NOT be chosen is that you are going on to even bigger and even better things!! MATH section? Dear me. When I HAD a mind, I couldn't do maths. I do remember very clearly failing the first course of Algebra for Non Majors in college. There I was, in the professor's office, crying my sweet little eyes out, and he, a very handsome young man, looked up and said, "If you keep on crying, I will, too, but you still failed."

That dried them up! hahahahahahah What a sense of humor. Here I came in to see when our Nellie starts up and find we're to take our militant shoes to town! I'm ready. They don't know what they're missing, but I have a strong feeling they are about to find out in our Nellie! I'm willing to bet she scored the highest score on the verbal they have ever seen!!!

Ginny

Ginny: You are a one woman cheering section! One more day and I will know one way or the other-that is if they let me know on Monday. I must suppose I did not that badly at the math stuff; after all I took 3 years of calculus when in university and while I was not a genius at it, neither was I a failure.

But I'm not getting much reading done because understandably I can't concentrate very much.

I'm trying out the beta IE5...but not with seniornet because for some odd reason every time I use it and sign into SN the browser crashes. There isn't that much difference between this new one and IE4.01; just some little improvements here and there. There is a nice article about it here: IE5 beta

From what I can make out it doesn't intergrate with Win95 the same way IE4 does- but I'm not totally sure about that. It definitely intergrates with Win98.

Now to click with my branch on the post msg box. I downloaded the falling leaves desktop theme and now have a branch with leaves and everything as a pointer.

Nellie

Nellie: (Pretend that this next sentence is written in large, purple letters.) Three years of calculus? You must be a genius. Three years of calculus? I can't believe it. Three years of ...

She IS a genius, and if she thinks for ONE moment she is going to leave us all in the lurch while she tears them up at University, she's got another think coming!! We're in this with you, Miss Nellie!!

Ginny

Nellie, I am like Ginny,, three years of Calculus? I would have been permanently installed in the booby hatch. I have a math freak for a son and he wants to meet you. He adores calculus and took all the extra math he could in college as he was an Environmental Science Engineering major. Now he is doing accounting for fun in night school. FUN.. Oh well. The gypsies brought him. Am reading Callaghan's Lady by Spider Robinson. Never saw this one before. Very very funny.

I'm not "that" much of a mathematician. I can get caught up in it though; a while back before I got on the Net, I was looking up formulas for a little program I was writing for myself. So I got out the old math books and next thing I knew I was really getting into them. Never really cared for math but loved physics, which is a lot of math too. The course I liked most was the one on Einstein's Theory of Relativity. I was the only female in the class and the prof tried to scare me off by filling four blackboards with math. As if that will scare me off.(got the highest mark in class too)

Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis (I've been spelling it wrong LOL) is really getting good. Akin the Oankali human construct baby is kidnapped and taken to live with humans. He is not rescued for many years because the Oankali want him to learn about and become a spokesman for the humans. We also learn that the "real" Oankali are shaped like large worms; and that the humanoid shape is for the benefit of humans. It is also interesting that they have repaired the Earth but are growing another living spaceship and when it is finally big enough to take off, it will take every bit of the living surface of the Earth along, leaving the planet a barren, rocky ball. For those humans who don't want to Join the Oankali Akin has suggested terraforming Mars as a home for them.

So far the Oankali top my list for most interesting aliens.

Nellie

Just stopping by to wish everyone a MERRY CHRISTMAS

And to tell you I got accepted in the course! But I have to wait until the next session in July; which is just right because it will give me a chance to save up for the big expensive program I'll have to buy, and to learn to type for real, and not the hunt and peck I do now.

So I've had my best Christmas present with that news

Nellie

Nellie: Congratulations! Best Christmas present I havd had, too. Shall I cancel the SeniorNet March?

Merry X-mas SciFi Fans!

Nellie - congratulations on being accepted for that course! WAY TO GO!!

Seems Octavia E. Butler has a talent for creating unusual aliens. Just finished Clay's Ark, where her alien is an organism brought back to Earth by infected astronauts. The infection spreads tenaciously causing pregnant women to produce a new species that is more animal than human. More than a little spooky!

Jackie: yes you can cancel the senior's march LOL. And here is a link to information on the course: Info on Nellie's Course

Have a look at the curiculum...quite the thing isn't it? My brain will get a real workout :->

I've thought of another alien species to add to the list: the Moties from Niven and Pournelle's The Mote in God's Eye.

Nellie

Nellie~!!!!! Congratulations!!

Good heavens, what a curriculum, what entrance requirements, I believe it would be easier to get into the FBI.

Wonderful achievement!!

On the typing? One of the small things I'm really pleased about was finally, after years and years of papers and such, thanks to the computer and the internet I finally learned to type!!! REALLY type!!

I used Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing and love it. I'm still a little shaky on the numbers, and the parentheses, but you really CAN learn to type with a computer program. IN fact, I was shocked that at the local technical college, they USE a computer typing program to teach typing!!

I used to be a very fast hunt n peck artist, but it's nothing compared to the real stuff. Challenged my son to a contest, he's another fast hunt & peck typist with his own system, and he really IS fast, but I won!! Nearly killed me but I won!

Sometimes the smallest triumphs are the best!

Ginny

I knew you'd get it, woke up yesterday sure of it!!

Ginny

Nellie: I agree with GInny. Although I learned touch typing, I was very slow. I went back to school when I was 32, to finish my degree. Well, that was BC, before computers, and I got so sick of making mistakes on my papers, having to type the whole page over, especially at 3 AM, that I learned to type fast and accurately, sort of, out of sheer necessity. The mind is powerful when we let it have its way.

LOL "easier to get into the FBI!" what a thought. And they had so many applications that two of the sessions are already taken. I feel proud to be in that elite group though.

I have had more people suggest Mavis Beacon to me; so I'm going to look into it. And I'm another fast hunt and pecker. How did you ever overcome the urge to hunt and peck when you first took up learning typing?

I'm getting a bit of reading in too. Just started the third book in Jack Chalker's Soul Rider series: Masters of Flux and Anchor. One of the Anchors has been turned into a male paradise in which all the women are almost brainless sexpots who exist only to please men, and when married to have children. The women have been made that way through "magic" spells. But both Cassie and Suzl are women of very independent characters and I have the feeling those magic spells are not going to hold for long in their cases.

I wonder if Chalker is not trying to say here that a woman can be well educated and independent but when she marries she puts all that education and independence aside in order to concentrate on her husband and her children? It will be interesting to read further.

Nellie

I found some very interesting new books by Peter F. Hamilton called the Reality Dysfunction part one and two.

I'm trying to read to many things at once and as a result seem to get nothing read at all. And it doesn't help that I've been caught up in the NGlayout source code from Mozilla.org.

I don't have much time as I'm logging off the net early tonight since there is a good SF show on TV at nine...

Nellie

The Reality Dysfunction:Emergence is very good. It is what might be termed hard SF with people who have intergrated nanomachines to augment their senses and bodies. There are living spaceships with symbiotic humans. So far I've only read two chapters so am not too far along, and the only complaint I have so far is that there does not seem to be a central character as yet. Perhaps it will be the young Syrinx and her spacehawk Oenone.(A spacehawk is one of the living spaceships). In the first chapter one of the ships is at the end of it's life and as it dies releases nine "eggs" which are both future ships and also contain the embyos of their human symbiotes. After a year the human children are "born" and taken to be raised by their human parents until in their teens when they rejoin their ships. The whole scene takes place in the rings of Saturn and all the other spacehawks are there to assure that the "eggs" find the proper safe orbits in the rings where they can get nourishment and energy to grow.

I have been negelecting these discussion a bit as I'm getting caught up in so many different things. Now I'm volunteering as an editor for the Open Directory Project. It is something much like Yahoo! is the best way to explain it, people surf the net and find links in different categories which they add to the database. I edit in the Pets section and do Bichons, Chinese Crested, Poodles, and Pet Dogs. I add links, delete broken links, change links if pages have moved. Also have to check out links other people leave in my area. But finding links means surfing the Net or at least using search engines and then checking out the site to see if it is "good" enough to our personal taste.

But it is a good place to look for things and they have one very handy feature: when you are in a category and you want to do a further search at the bottom of the page it will say "search for bichons" in and then a clickable list of search engines. When you click on any of the search engines the bichon search has already been done and the results are right there for you. Here's the URL if you want to have a look(actually a link) The Open Directory

Nellie

I'm still reading The Reality Dysfunction: Emergence. And while there is no one central character as yet, there are recurring characters whose different stories are being followed; and whom I expect will meet up sooner or later. Syrinx and her ship Oenone have joined a space naval police force and I expect that she will run into Quinn Dexter, a nasty young man who has been sent to a colony world called Lalonde as an indentured servant, and who is planning an escape. He has already murdered a colonist and stolen his money and clothes towards that end.

Not too much going on in here, but there are many interesting discussions and I must admit that even I don't have time to look at them all...and I have the bad fault of waiting for a new post to show before I will look or post myself.

Nellie

Has this become a one woman show? LOL it seems so...this one is to continue a post I made in How The Mind Works which has been archived and may soon disappear, so I thought I had better continue here.

Jackie: I agree with you, those books about the mind are sure interesting. I wonder if there are any good books on Artificial Intelligence that we could discuss? I have seen lots of books on the mind and brain but I'm thinking it might all get to be the same after a while.

I'm even tempted at times to suggest that we discuss a book we all like here in SF. And do it slow and easy with no set time limit. I found the How the Mind Works discussion actually went much too fast for me. I think that is because I don't come here every day.

Nellie

Nellie, I like your suggestion but finding a book everyone could agree on might be a monumental undertaking. I was brought up on things by Schmidt, Heinlein,Smith, Campbell etc. I guess I've never grown beyond that genre. After 30+ years of picking away at the inner workings of the human mind thats the last thing I want to do for a quiet evening of enjoyment. I'm drawn now to authors like Weber, Drake, Eddings, Brooks and Aspirn. I have to admit though that a couple of Hamiltons books with more clearly defined characters were pretty good. Everytime I hear that Angus Wells and his ilk have something new I get really impatient for the paper back to come out. It's been months since I posted. Somehow my computer was in conflict with SenNets log in program. Works now and its good to be back.

Nellie, Brian, et al. I've been reading more fantasy lately: Barbara Hambly's those Who Hunt The Night; The Arthur series, can't remember his name (Pendragon, Arthur, Merlin, Taliesin); Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Light" series. But I'm always lurking. Good names to add to my list. It seems that the library frequently is out of what I'm looking for, so have to take what I can get.

I am reading another one of Elizabeth Moons and since it is at the store, dont remember the title. All about spaceships and women in the space cadets. Interesting, but very light. Still fun.

I'm just sticking my nose in here. I am out of my depth. I don't know the authors you mention and I have not read any science fiction for years. I am interested, however, in the way science fiction gradually becomes fact in our changing world so I'll just be a listener.

Robby

Well I will agree that the fiction written mostly in the 50 and 60's certainly had roots in reality.. However the great majority of sci-fi written today tends to be alternate worlds and fantasy, so I cannot see much of it becoming true. There are some interesting what if type stuff. Nancy Kress "Beggrars" series certainly had an interesting idea as the basis.

Welcome to Robby: you are most welcome to just read what others say, but I hope you join in too. There were a lot of things mentioned in the older Science Fiction that later became "fact" or came into existence for real, but they also missed at least one important thing and that is this Internet we are all using. No one wrote about anything like it. By the time someone did it already existed in a rudimentary form. I think Science Fiction does not predict the future so much as extrapolate where certain new inventions may take us.

Brian: nice to see you back again. Annoying isn't it when you can't get onto a site. I've had the same thing happen but not at SN luckily. It probably will be very difficult to get us all to agree on one book, and some borrow from the library so there is availabilty to take into account. A Heinlein book would be interesting, or an Asimov...maybe I should start by asking for favorite author suggestions...there is no hurry with this.

Stephanie: I'm trying to think of what book I have by Elizabeth Moon but can't come up with it.

Jackie: do you have any titles to go with the Marion Zimmer Bradley "Light" series?

It was nice to see all you nice folks in here. It was getting rather lonely

Nellie

Stephanie, I enjoyed the Capt Serrano trilogy and have started her latest trilogy as well. Have you read the Deed of Paksanarion. It was a good read.

Nellie: I found only four in an internet book store which shall remain nameless. They are: Ghostlight, Gravelight, Heartlight,, Witchlight. I have read one, Heartlight, I think, which seems to be the last of the series. It is about Magick, both black and white. The good guys are followers of the "Light". They battle against, among others, Nazis in WWII ( there are flashbacks). This one was hard going, since there seemed to be lots that I didn't know about, but I rarely put down a book until its finished, so I studk with it. I'm eager to read the first one, to see if its any good!

How is the touch typing coming along? Well, I hope. You will have to find time, when things get busy, to send us reports on where you are in your studies. Sounds like so much fun, but lots of work, too. I rarely spend more that two or three consecutive seconds thinking about going back to school. I really admire your spunk.

A trilogy?? Well So far I have read by Elizabeth Moon Once A Hero and Hunting Party.. And of course the ones she did in Anne McCaffreys world. If there is a third in the Serrano, etc. stuff, I will track it down, I truly loved borh the hero and the hunting.. Space Fleet is downright interesting and there are some good battles for the battle freaks.

Jackie: Alas and alack, the touch typing is getting no where fast. I tried learning before about 30 years back when I was upgrading my high school to get into university. I agreed to tutor a lady in math while she tutored me in typing. Needless to say the poor thing got nowheres with me, I just couldn't do it. I did have much more success in the math tutoring. But I found a free program called Letter Chase which is supposed to help teach typing and improve your typing if you already know how; so will give it a try and see how it goes.

Nellie

I'm re-reading John de Chancie's Castle Perilous series. These are light and easy reads. The castle is a magic place with doorways that lead to 144,000 different worlds. Most of the chracters in the stories are those who have accidentally ended up in the castle after stumbling upon one of the doorways. And once in the castle most people seem to have some magic skill.

Also started reading Tad Williams' Otherland...very good so far.

Nellie

Just popping in a moment to say hello. Don't want to do a major post until the problem has been solved. I figure as long as I see that corrupted database message on the front page the problem hasn't been solved.

Bought the third book in Jeffrey A. Carver's The Chaos Chronicles series: The Infinite Sea. Book one is Neptune Crossing, and book two is Strange Attractors.

Nellie

Hi All -

Was complaining to a fellow sci-fier that I couldn't find anything to read. She suggested Brian W. Aldiss' HELLICONIA SPRING, SUMMER, WINTER series.

In the first of the series, SPRING, although the planet, Helliconia, and it's life forms were somewhat interesting, I was just about to give up when Aldiss introduced the fact that an observation satellite from Earth was circling the planet.

The SUMMER book follows the orbit of the planet around it's two suns, and the effects of the orbit on the various species of life. All while generations of humans are watching and studying every detail.

And so, I'm beginning WINTER, as they enter a long ice age. I'm thinking that Aldiss was pretty clever to introduce the Earth observers, because I find myself more interested in them than the species on Helliconia. All in all, a good read.

Just saying hello as usual. I thought I'd better have a look see if the discussions were back up and yes they are but now everything shows as new.

Peggy: the Helliconia series sound like it might interest me. But then I give everything a chance.

short stay today...Nellie

Just received a huge trade today inthe store.. Several hundred all sci-fi stuff. The complete Andre Norton... many man Marion Zimmer Bradley including some old stuff I had never heard of.. Cherryh... Anthony.. Just so many old ones.. Having a blast and reluctantly putting out for sale about half... The others I am dragging home to pig ... Lovely lovely feast.

Stephanie: Lucky you!

Stephanie: I positively glowing green with envy. Couldn't you live a lot closer to me? I would love to have all those SF books to "pig out" on LOL.

I found an interesting -if somewhat dated- book on SF called The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction. I especially like the concept of "Themes" that are used in SF stories. The themes listed in the book are: Spacecraft and Stardrives, Exploration and Colonies, Biology and Environments, Warfare and Weaponry, Galactic Empires, Future and Alternative Histories, Utopias and Nightmares, Cataclysms and Dooms, Lost and Parallel Worlds, Time and Nth Dimensions, Technologies and Artifacts, Mutants and Symbiotes, Telepathy, Psionics and ESP, Cities and Cultures, Robots and Androids, Computers and Cybernetics, Sex and Taboos, Religion and Myths, and Inner Space.

Looking at all those different themes makes me realize that Science Fiction literature encompasses all of literature in a way. And the book gives examples of stories that fit into each of the themes. but I will continue with that another time.

Nellie

I have always been interested in the universal themes n Science Fiction and intrigued that others who say.... " Oh I only read serious stuff" do not understnad that much of the genre is quite serious... What if.... is serious, but also different.

Stephanie: Yes "what if" is serious because it arises out of "what is" and are not most serious novels based in "what is"? I think Science Fiction expresses our dreams, our hopes, and our fears of the future in story form. And there are many different stories set in many different futures because each moment there are many futures possible.

And the book also breaks each Theme section up into different types of stories that fit into each theme. I haven't had a chance to go further in it, so can't say much more. I got caught up in the oldest SF section where all the Jules Verne, the H.G.Wells, Arthur Conan Doyle, Edgar Rice Burroughs, and M.P.Shiel stories are listed; among others.

Nellie

I am currently reading a very old Frederick Pohl.. It has several novellas and is about New York City in the not too far future and the changes made in order to survive.. Domes, Anti grav devices, etc. Has some interesting postulations based on Science from the period it was written.

I find that the future as imagined in the very old SF stories is so different from how it actually turned out. In the stories by 1999 there are colonies on the Moon and Mars, and climate controlled domed cities, and everyone has robot servants. So far we have none of those things. And if and when we do have robot servants I want mine to look anything but human. I watch this very good new series called Total Recall 2070 and the very human looking androids who are nothing more than "slaves" in that future society, give me an uneasy feeling. I think it is because those "machines" look so like us.LOL I don't think I need to worry too much about having a humanoid robot doing the dishes and sweeping the floor any time soon.

Nellie

I have always been extremely fond of Isaac Asimovs Robots.. They simply feel right to me.

Hello all: Not much time, I'm working on something but thought I'd take a bit of a break. I'm almost at the end of The Wild Road by Gabriel King. The "wild road" is a secret road that only cats can see and travel on. In this story cats are the stars. There is Majicou the one-eyed magic cat whose life goes back hundreds of years and who is a guardian of all cat-kind; who protects them from the Alchemist an evil being who desires the powers that cats have. Tag is a young cat who is Majicou's apprentice. The main thing they must do in the story is save the King and Queen of cats: the queen is an Egyptian Mau named Pertelot and the king a Norwegian Forest cat named Ragnar. Tag is given the charge of getting them to Tintagel Castle in Wales. And he has a motley crew of cats and a couple of other animals to help him. I love the names the author gives his characters: like the fox is named Loves a Dustbin, and the magpie is called One For Sorrow; and there is the calico female named Sealink for her travels, and Cy or Cybercat because she has a sparkplug in her head, and Mousebreath, and Pengelly the old seacat.

Nellie

A very good, enjoyable book is Sheri S Tepper's The Family Tree. It is the interweaving of two stories: one taking place a couple of years from now and being concerned with Dora and a mysterious, intelligent tree that takes over her town and her tree hating ex-husband: and the other taking place three thousand years in the future in which the world has many different tribes of people and a small group goes out on a quest. Their quest leads them to a journey through time into the past...and for the reader of the book a most delightful surprise is in store as the two stories become one.

Nellie

I love Tepper! She reminds me a little of "James Tiptree" or whatever her name was. "Tiptree" wrote a S/S, was it "The Women Men Don't See"? About ordinary women who don't attract notice, but can and do perform extraordinary tasks. Wasn't she with the NSA or the CIA or something like that? Anyway, Tepper has a slightly different spin on things, makes me think, makes me squirm sometimes, but really connects.

I'm glad to find this "string" on science fiction. I have enjoyed it for most all of my life, but have always been a little afraid that it wasn't socially acceptable. Most librarians treat sci-fi readers like methadone addicts -- poor things, let's cater to their baser needs, and maybe they will learn to appreciate real literature some day!

Nellie, I think you hit the nail right on the head in your posting about "what is" and its relation to "what if."

Let me ask a question: years ago I read a story about contact between our species and another much older species which was energy-based rather than matter (carbon) based. I made the mistake of lending it to a relative and...you all know the rest of that story. Do any of you recall such a story? I would pay real money to get it back, but I can remember neither the name of the author nor the story... I had bought it at a garage sale about ten years ago and it wasn't new at the time, so I guess it had been written in the 70s or 80s.

Nellie is our expert, Tom. She has a vast library, and better, she remembers things like author, title, theme. (Maybe she's too young for CRS?) Sounds like one I'd like to read, so hope your question is answered. Have you looked at the Sci-fi contest? IThere are only four or five I know; maybe you can do better? What are you reading right now? I'm waiting for the new Lois McMasters Bujold paperback, due out in May.

Welcome to the discussion Tom! I don't have the answer to your question about the book you are looking for right off; but there is something familiar about what you describe; I just have to let my brain percolate until the answer or a hint to the answer appears.

In the library you go to do they have the SF lit in its own section, so as not to contaminate the real literature? Our libraries mix all types of literature up together, but they do mark the books with symbols so you can tell what type it is. I find having the SF mixed in with all the rest makes one feel a lot less like a literary outcast.

Nellie

Libraries here have Fiction, Mystery, Science Fiction. Never felt like an outcast. I always thought it was for the reader's convenience. Same as the book stores; in fact, I was quite annoyed when I found that some book stores put favorite mystery quthors in with the other fiction. Makes them much harder to find.

Jackie: I know what you mean about the bookstore mixing everything up together. One of the bookstores I go to has begun doing that and I don't care for it at all. Does yours also mix paperbacks and hardcovers all higgeldy piggeldy?

Nellie

Nellie... higgeldy piggeldy? ... I haven't heard that since I was a child.

Reminds me of the first time I saw a supermarket called Piggly Wiggly. Still don't know the etymology of that name. But it makes me laugh.

For Science Fiction fan, a new poster in the Books Wanted discussion indicated he had several Sci-Fi books that he wants to dispose of as doesn't have room for them. He listed several different authors. Just click on the following to see his message:

Sci-Fi Books Available

Larry

Larry thaks for the info regarding the SF books. Much as I love them, I'd better pass on the offer; I have a hard time finding room for all the books I do have.

I have to sneak this in here somewhere: I was just, five minutes ago, interviewed by a nice young woman from Salon Magazine. The interview was about the sudden shut down of the Netscape Professional Forums, and my thought on the subject. I'm not sure when the article will be on line. She did say she might call me again. But isn't it exciting?

Have a Happy Easter!

Nellie

Nellie, that is exciting and when the article appears please be sure to let us know with a clickable. First Ginny in the NY Times and now you on Salon.

Larry

Jackie--- Bujold's is out at Barnes and Nobles. Got one today.

NELLIE on Salon!!! WOW WOW WOW, YAY!! Let us know, how exciting, our Nellie's quoted on Salon!

Ginny

Brian: Thanks. Pardon me while I run out and get it. I'll be reading for a while now, so will get back to you later. Bye. . .

LOL!! I didn't quite know salon was that exciting. I shall be sure to let everyone know when the article is up.

Nellie

Nellie: I'm ashamed to say that Salon has been on my must read list for quite a while. LJ said he read it, along with Wired, and I thought if it interested him, it was worth looking up. But I didn't. Now I will.

Brian: I am disappointed in Barryar. Bujold seems to be running out of gas. I hope I am wrong, but reading this is like trying to run in water. Maybe I was expecting too much.

Hi all! Here is a rather interesting piece on Vernor Vinge's newest book at Salon:

Vernor Vinge Article

Can't find anything on the article that is being done on the closing of the Netscape forums as yet.

I found a couple of new books to read: The Infinite Sea by Jeffrey Carver third in the Chaos Chronicles; and Illegal Alien by Robert J. Sawyer.

Nellie

Nellie: Finished Gabriel King's Wild Roads. As a cat lover, I enjoyed reading about their "secret" lives. Sadly, my 12-year-old male cat, Hudson, collapsed and died before our eyes the other night. We are still in shock, and Sherlock, our 13-year-old female cat, seems to be likewise numbed by his loss. Still, he had a very good life, and we know he is playing, now, at the Rainbow Bridge, waiting for us.

Jackie: that is sad news about your cat Hudson; I'm sure he had a wonderful life with you. My little poodle Daisy is back in the doggy hospital with the same intestinal problem.

I popped in to leave a link to the Salon article which quotes me:

Salon Netcenter article

Click on the story about Netcenter...

I'm looking out for the follow up book The Golden Cat by Gabriel King. I'm reading Standing Wave by Howard V. Hendrix. It is very deep and metaphysical. But quite good. Makes me think about a lot of things.

I'm being ICQ'd so better go and see who it is. Probably my young (37) friend...Nellie

Nellie: I'm impressed. There is an online computer community (sort of) here in the Bay Area. It is The Bridge. Based in Marin, across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco. Supposed to be the movers and shakers. (Costs $10/mo). The demise of the community saddens me as well. AOL is lowest common denominator junk, in my opinion. You must be devastated.

Jackie, I'm so sorry your cat died, it's been quite a year for you, hasn't it? So sorry. Our old Missy died, too, about a month ago, she was 16, a Black Lab, so it wasn't unexpected, just found her in the morning, looked peacefully asleep.

Ginny

Jackie: it was certainly unfair of them to pull the rug out from under us that way. But all the people who participated at Netcenter have set up their own forum. It is private right now but it might become public and then there will be a press release put out about it. And I'm getting invitation to join other communities, one of which is Brainstorms which is run by Howard Rheingold. The other lady mentioned in the article -Elizabeth Lewis -invited me there. She does work for Amazon as a tech book reviewer. Too bad she is too young for Seniornet.

Nellie

Nellie: How lucky SeniorNet is to have our own internet computer luminary! I shall be looking for ways to drop your name in my conversations: " As I was telling my good friend, Nellie Vrokek, the Internet boffin, you know, ..." Really, isn't life a trip? Speaking of trips, I have embarked on a wild one in the literary sense. Robin Hobb" Ship of Magic places the reader among folk who live in BIngtown, folk who have unique sailing ships. Ships made of wizardwood. Althea Vestrit, daughter of the ship Vivacia's owner, has sailed whit her father on everyone of his voyages. Vivacia was captained first by her great-grandmother, then her grandfather. When her father's reaign as captain ends, the ship will "quicken" as Althea assumes command. Wizardwood ships become liveships after three captain's lifetimes. Althea is sailing, this trip, with her sister's husband, Klye, as captain; her father was ailing when the ship left Bingtown. The ship returns to home port at last and Althea is devastated to learn that her father is near death. . . And the story takes off. Other threads follow a rogue pirate captain's ambitions, and semi-sentient sea serpents who are called on a mysterious migration. More later.

Brian: Komarr turned out to be a good read. She left me panting for the next one, though. I was afraid Bujold's well was running dry, but now am reassured. Thanks for the tip.

Vivacia has a painted firgurehead. When Captain Verstitt is dying, he is brought aboard her. A wooden plug is removed from the figurehead, and two Verstitts hold it, the Captain and his heir. At his death, the plug is reinserted into the figurehead. The paint starts flaking off her, and she begins to move. Still wooden, but also living. The ship has quickened! She talks, her hair moves, her face pinkens. Instead of the daughter, Althea, inheriting, the Captain names his elder daughter, who is married to a sea captain. The plot begins to thicken as Althea is forced to leave the ship, the ship she has spent most of her life loving. The new captain is not from the old trader families, and he begins to reveal his own agenda; he is now the man of the family, and all must obey his commands. Meanwhile, the pirate captain spins his threads, and the serpents embark on a mysterious pilgramage to . . .

Hey, Everybody! Nellie has written that she can't get in at all, it took 1/2 hour for the main page of the B&L to load so she's going to try tomorrow!

It's slow for me, too. She wanted you all to know!

Ginny

Made it today! I must confess to not having done much reading -what else is new? But I am almost finished with Standing Wave which is just a little too much metaphysical for me to totally enjoy it. There are no characters to really get emotionally involved with.

Jackie: the story you are describing sounds really good. I must remind myself to look for it when I end up in a bookstore.

Nellie

Nellie: You may want to start with Robin Hobb's first trilogy, something about Assassin's. It is the same "planet" but about a bunch of folks who live in another part of their world. I'm partway thru book 1. In this one, a 6-year-old boy is brought to a keep by his grandfather, and left there, as he is the bastard son of the heir to the throne. His arrival creates all kinds of backlash; the prince's wife has not been able to bear a child, and her health is very fragile from all the miscarriages. The child has no name, has been called "Boy". He is put into the care of the Prince's principal man-at-arms, who is also the keeper of the stables and the dogs. The boy grows up, sleeping with puppies, caring for horses, skimming along the edges of the society of the palace, until, one day, he attracts the attention...to be continued.

Jackie: I wrote down the name of Robin Hobb so that next time I'm in the bookstore I can look out for the assasin trilogy. I was in the bookstore today but couldn't recall the name. I did find a new book by Susan R. Matthews who writes the Andrej Koscuisko stories, with again the same character. And one by an author I have not read before: Murder in the Solid State by Will McCarthy.

Nellie

Nellie: It is the Farseer Trilogy: Assassin's Apprentice, Royal Assassin, and Assassin's Quest. Hard to put down reads, all. Let me know about Murder in the SOlid State; sounds techie and mystery combined. An update on Lois McMasters Bujold's newest paperback. It is called Komarr. Slow starting, but then she hits her stride, and gallops away with the story. Miles is settling into adulthood, not quite as impetuous as he was in his 20's. Auditor is not as easy a job as mercenary, he finds. I am already salivating for the next one.

Well I found Robin Hobb's Ship of Magic but not the Farseer trilogy as yet. Haven't begun reading it yet. The cover of the book is certainly lovely.

And if you can find it, this short fantasy story is such fun: Petronella by Jay Williams...The main character is a namesake of mine.

Nellie

Ship of Magic stands on its own as a great yarn. Having read the Farseer trilogy - Assassin is in the title of each one - I am going to reread Ship. Since all share the same geography, and presumably the same physics and chemistry, etc., the one should enrich the other, I'm thinking. How was Murder in Solid State, or whatever the title was?

Jackie: I've just read one chapter of Murder in the Solid State so far. The story begins at a science convention which our hero, David sanger, and his greatest nemesis Otto Vandergroot, both attend. At one point David finds himself face to face with Otto, gets into an argument and finds himself facing an irate Otto armed with a sword. Someone presses a sword into his hand, but he soon casts it aside as he realizes he knows nothing about sword fighting. He takes care of Otto by using something like ju-jitsu. He goes back to his hotel room and is woken by the police who have come to arrest him for the murder of Otto who was killed by a sword that has David's fingerprints all over it.

Nellie

Nellie: All that in Chapter One? Sounds like a good read. I'll look for it.

Jackie: I have to laugh at myself, it seemed like only one chapter but it was more a series of short chapters. But whether one or a bunch it is very good. David has been interogated by an FBI agent called Puckett and has contacted his friend Bowser who is a part time lawyer and full time Rennaiscance man. David has taken a futurized version of a lie detector test and they believe his protestations that he is not guilty. But the killer has not yet been found...

Nellie

Sherri Tepper's new PB, Dance of the Six Moons, is starting off well. A capsule: Mouche, a boy of Newholme, has been sold by his family into Consort training. It seems that a woman, after she spends 10 years producing, hopefully, daughters for her husband, has the right to her own Consort. These lads need careful training in manners, conversation, dueling, amatory arts, etc. Men have to wear veils in public, so as not to inflame women with the sight of their hair sprouting bare faces, but Consorts wear the flimsiest of veils. More on that later.

Jackie: that new Tepper sounds good. If you can find it get Murder in the Solid State by Mike McCarthy(sp) it is a really good little book with lots of excitement.

Right now I'm trying out the various books I have to read by reading little bits in each until I hit the one that says "keep reading". They are all equally good which is why I can't make up my mind.

Nellie

Another good read is Shaw's Illegal Alien. In this book an alien is put on trial for the murder of a human. The aliens professes to be innocent but that might not be true. They have such a different outlook on things that they do not have a concept of murder. They believe that everything happens according to the will of The God. So that if you kill someone it was obviously The God's will and as such not murder. The same with stealing, lying...a very fatalistic view of life. I'm at the point where jury selection is taking place and then the trial begins.

Nellie

Errata: the author of Illegal Alien is Robert J. Sawyer. Sorry sometimes my brain goes on a holiday it seems. Still it is a very good book with an original concept.

Nellie

Thought I'd pop in and say "hi!". I haven't read enough of any one book to do any reports but will say that Greg Egan's Diaspora is rather good and different. There are three types of beings in his mileu: machine intelligences, Gleisner robots which hold the minds of humans, and Fleshers -those humans who have opted to remain wholly human. The first few chapters are about the "birth" and growth of a machine intelligence named Yatima and vis life in the virtual city of Konishi.

Nellie

Found Cat Scratch Fever by Tara Harper at Poor Pat's used book store. Basic premise: after years of training, aspirants to Guidehood are dosed with a virus which leaves them attuned mentally to local biota. (?) Our heroine, at 37, is almost 2x the age of other novice guides. Just when her virus is beginning to "take", evidently her link will be with the forbidden felines, she is kidnapped. Graphic descriptions of the violations (mental and physiucal) committed on her are a turn off. But I stuck with her tale--non-stop action. Not much thinking required of the reader.

Well, yesterday was "Saint" Lucas Day, and it was a big thing here in Silicon Valley. Traffic was light, the high school parking lot was only half full. My son went to the movie last night at 10 pm. He's still asleep. I heard that the first showings were at 12:01 am Wednesday, or some such hour. I CAN'T WAIT! Have any of you got Star Wars Fever, too?

I have more of a Star Wars slow simmer which means I'm interested in seeing the show but I'm willing to wait a while until the longest line-up are gone, which may not happen since all the people who already have seen it will be going for a second and third time or more. I remember going to the original Star wars show ten times or more...I also want to see The Matrix and the Mummy...I love shows with good special effects.

I have a book by Tara Harper called Wolfwalker which also has the theme of human animal telepathy in it.

Nellie

Nellie: Let me know how you like Harper. I'm getting the second of her "Cat" books, and I'm curious about the wolf stories. About movies: my son reports that the technology is interesting but the story we've seen already. He loved Matrix, and enjoyed Mummy. I sat thru Star Wars 10 times, also. It will be a while before I see The Phantom Menace, also. I can't stand in those lines like I did 20 years ago.

I agree,will go see the new one,, but not for a few weeks. Do not like or deal well with crowds. I hve read some of Harpers stuff. Sort of bubble gum, but fun.

Hi Stephanie. How are you doing? Is your surgery taking place before the retirement or after? Glad to have you posting. Nellie: Didn't you tell us that you read a book by Susan R. Matthews about Andrej Koscuisko, an Inquisitor? I am reading Prisoner of Conscience. This is quite a writer. Who would imagine such a "hero"? She has written An Exchange of Hostages (not in the bookstore) and there was another Andrej book on the shelf, can't remember the title. Sherri S Tepper just get better and better, doesn't she? Six Moon Dance--what a book for a women's group to discuss. Won't happen, though. I can just imagine some of the comments.

Jackie: I read both An Exchange of Hostages in which Andrej Koscuiko learns to Inquire, and Prisoner of Conscience. He is a very different hero and I think her books are not for those who are squeamish. I find them very well written with lots of background detail worked in. While I found both to be very good books; I thought Exchange of Hostages was the better of the two because of the powerful subject matter that the reader is introduced to, such as Andrej making the horrible discovery that he gets sexually excited by pain; that makes him an excellent Inquisitor but drives him to drink. This book also builds the close relationship between Andrej and Joslire Curran his Bond-involuntary aide. Andrej Koscuiko is such an honorable person in an less than honorable system.

I have been on the lookout for Six Moon Dancing but haven't seen it yet...I will sooner or later. Tepper always has very strong female protagonists.

Nellie

And the newset book is Hour of Judgment of which I've read the first chapter: Andrej is finally at the point where his eight years as an Inquisitor are over and he is looking forward to returning home when he is asked to consider staying on as Inquisitor. I don't yet know what his answer will be.

I found Exchange of Hostages. Matthews writes a compelling tale. When an author creates a milieu, I am intensely interested in how well it hangs together. This one has a fascination in its baseness, almost like Ursula le Guin's The Dispossessed. After reading about that socialist world, I felt that I really could feel a little of what it is to live with socialism. No more romantic notions! Matthews' universe is still shadowy, insubstantial. The bones are still hidden. So I am enticed to read on. . .

Hi,

Another fantasy fan here. McCaffrey and Lackey especially interest me. I haven't discovered Tepper yet, but with the mentions here I will have my librarian wife on the lookout. Just read The Last of the Dragon Lords, by Bertin, a good read. Just discovered the SeniorNet and am enjoying it immensely

Welcome to our little group, Walter! I hope you will share your insights on some of your favorite books with us, and lead us to ones we've not yet read.

Nellie

Finished Illegal Alien. Seems almost like a movie script. At work, I just finished analyzing data collected over one year. Sort of went AWOL from my book discussions, but really needed my escapist reading. TIme to get back to the real world, alas.

Hi Nellie,

Thanks for the welcome. I've noticed an interesting thing in the recent new books I've read. The authors, some of them, are putting their e-mail addresses in the back. And, they answer mail!! How neat.Had a chance to speak with Izaac Asimov on the phone some years back and was totally tongue-tied when he answered. Anne McCaffrey and the Dragons of Pern forever!! Wally

Wally: You spoke to Isaac Asimov! He is one of my favorite authors and I have most of his books. That's interesting information about the e-mail for authors; I haven't really paid much attention to that as yet. Have you e-mailed any author yet?

Jackie: you are right on Illegal Alien does remind one of a movie script; its a nice easy read and doesn't require much brainpower, which is just what I need once in a while.

Nellie

I never thought that I would feel sympathy for an inquisitor. In spite of that, Andrej is a sympathetic "hero". Twice, while reading these two books, I have wept. Matthews evokes powerful emotions in this reader. She gets into the minds and souls of her male characters, but her female(s) are cardboard, aren't they?

Well , I am having surgery right along on the eyes. Had the left eye done with the cataract surgery and it went perfectly, so now I have a functioning left eye. The right one is still problematic.. I had surgery and one yag laser treatment. I am having a second one tomorrow. I can see dimly at this point our of it, but need clearer vision and especially lighter vision. Hopefully I will get it. Still far far behind on my books.. Can only read with magnifying glasses just now.. When I get new glasses, should be able to read again comfortably.. ( she says with her fingers crossed).

Stephanie: Great news. We have felt the cosmic lack of your turning pages, along with the rest of us. Our team needs all its members, so we'll all cheer when you get off the disabled list.

Stephanie: I'll cheer for you right along with Jackie when you are able to join us SF readers again. You must miss reading terribly. I sure would; I'd be bored stiff if I couldn't read, whether on the net or books.

Jackie: I don't find Matthews' female characters to be cardboard figures neccesarily but they are awefully cold hearted and selfish. One feels no pity for them because there is no pity in them; at least not in Noycannir, she's one heartless woman (didn't want to use the female dog term, not sure if that is polite). There is a woman who is with Andrej in Case of Conscience who seemed rather kind and nice. Can't recall her name right now and I'm too lazy to run down to the basement to find the book at look it up.

You must get Hour of Judgment the next Andrej Koscuiko story. His troubles are not yet over; he thought he would be able to retire and go home but Secretary Verlaine has asked Andrej's father that Andrej be turned over to work for him; Andrej does not want that so he is stuck remaining on as an Inquisitor with the Fleet. What a society in which the father has such power over a full grown son! A new character is introduced in this book: a batlike alien who goes by the name of Two, who so far appears to be close to Andrej and gives him advice.

And now I'm going out to look at my garden and stretch my legs a bit.

Nellie

I started reading a new book by an author I've not read before. It is Leap Point by Kay Kenyon. So far it involves a woman Abbey McCrae who is investigating the death of her daughter Vittoria; a mysterious cult led by one Zacharia Smith (shades of Lost in Space!); aliens; and a very addictive game called Nir...

After I had mentioned that some author's e-mail addresses were in the back of their books you asked if I had sent e-mail to any. Sorry the answer is long in coming; I've been reading too much I guess. I sent an e-mail to Allan Cole. He wrote The Last Dragon King, among others. He did reply and we exchanged a couple of messages, cordial, interesting, and funny! His address is 75130.2761@compuserve.com

Sorry I haven't been by for a while. I'm the leader so I should be here more. Trouble is I'm catching up on some non SF type reading and thus have not much to talk about for the moment.

Nellie

Nellie: Physics of Star Trek discussion folder is open. We'll have some Trekkers lurking, looks like. I finished Matthews trilogy. So much was left out between books 2 and 3. I kept looking for familiar names, and there were so few. Still, it was not to be missed. Thanks for recommending it.

Jackie: from the way Hour of Judgment ended I expect that there might be another Andrej Koscuiko story coming in the future.

There well could be. In our late early-adulthood, when we have to come to terms with some of our own frailties, we go through a middle period when we can accept that we, each one of us, has secrets and hidden pain. That is when we truly become adult, I believe. That resignation: the mills of the gods do indeed grind small. Andrej is getting to that place in his life, isn't he?

In the middle of Anne McCaffreys third Freedom book. I do like them, they are fun and as always a fully realized world. She has a gift for this.

Somehow I always like her books, whatever series she is in. The Freedom series sure had a great start, didn't it? When I was young, I was given a beautiful copy of Robinson Crusoe, illustrated by Wyeth, I think. Anyway, it has marked me for life. Those stories whose theme is having to learn to survive with only your own resources to help you, I can't resist them. Some of them, in SF, are post-holocaust type (Palmer's Emergence), others are like McCaffrey's Dinosaur Planet series. The Bounty story was another which caught my adolescent fancy. The other side of the coin of survival is escape. Also, the actor is forced into acting. (Well, Dr. Freud, what does that suggest to you?)

Jackie: yes, I think Andrej is at that stage too. I think everything he is going through is going to make him a better ruler of his people.

I'm slowly reading Niven's Destiny Road: where I am now Jemmy has set off down The Road with the Merchants working for them as cook. I like the exploration and discovery type stories most of all I think. That's what this one seems to be.

Robinson Crusoe was a favored book of mine also in childhood. I do like those 'survive against all odds' type of books too.

Nellie

I like the nuts and bolts of survival... Alas Babylon is a timeless favorite for me.. Also of course The Postman... Wont see movie,,, dont ask.

The Disappearance by Philip Wylie is another very good book about survival. In this case men have to learn to live without women, and women have to learn to live without men. I like Alas Babylon too. When you think of it most SF literature is about survival: survival in space; survival on a new planet; or survival on a greatly changed earth -to name but a few off the top of my head.

Nellie

Yes,, actually all of McCaffreys series seem to be about survival of one sort or another.Freedoms Landing, etc. certainly is. And theDragonworld was on how to slightly change your world to make it work for you.

Nellie:

Do you get sci-fi cable channel??? They are having a Twilight Zone marathon...but I don't remember when...They are going to show every episode.

Also,are you familiar with a film called Dark City...stars Rufus Sewell...Keifer Sutherland...William Hurt...

If you haven't seen it,I think you might enjoy it ( It's available on tape)it's both retro and futuristic and an intriguing plot line.

Ed: No I don't get the Sci-Fi channel here in Canada, we do have something similar called Space but they show different shows. I've heard of Dark City but haven't seen it. sounds interesting.

Nellie

I haven't been doing much reading lately. I'm concentrating on a project I'm working on with a group of other people. I can't say anything about it other than that it could result in some good income for me. I have my fingers crossed. When things are more public, I will let you know more.

Nellie

Dear Nellie: May I pray for your success? I will anyway. When you do read again, a fun read is A Point of Honor, by Dorothy J. Heydt. You are a woman named Mary, and you are a world renowned player of the VR game, Chivalry. So good that you have been knighted, and you are addressed as Sir Mary. You win the Championship at the Winchester Lists where one of your conquests cannot pay his ransom and he offers you his estate, which you decide to accept. On you way home, your plane nearly crashes; you are sideswiped by a bus and your vehicle wrecked. One-thirty AM your security system wakes you with the warning: an intruder was in your house. You begin to wonder . . .

Jackie, that does sound like an interesting read. I began a book called Priam's Lens by Jack Chalker. It is about an alien race called Titans who 'terraform' planets to their own taste but totally ignore the presence of humans. They turn planets into beautiful but deadly Edens as far as humans are concerned. A small group is coming together to search for a weapon called Priam's Lens which may help them to fight and defeat the Titans.

I came by to tell I'm going to be beta testing new software and it might cause my windows to go phhtt. So If I don't show up here in a couple of days or more, you'll know what happened <VBG>

Nellie

Nellie: How exciting! I want to hear all about it, when you are able to reveal something. Windows in the internet sense, rather than the OS? What do you think of LINUX? Should I start learning that? I really enjoyed FORTRAN, so much fun, like a puzzle. GOod luck, my dear Nellie.

Jackie: here I am again and happy to say that so far the program being tested has done nothing bad as yet, and hopefully won't do so. I can't say what it does because that would tell you what it is. The reason the company is so secretive is because of copyright and patent laws.

I'm planning on getting Linux, not sure of the version as yet; Red Hat is supposed to be good and so is Caldera. I prefer one that is free and downloadable from the 'net. I have a thought! Maybe we could venture into Linux together and call ourselves the Linux Lassies? or the Linux Ladies?

You do have to partition your hard drive to have a place for Linux. Someone suggested I get something like Partition Magic to do so. I get conflicting reports on it though: some folks I know have nothing but praise for it, and others say it 'hosed' their hard drives. That makes it hard to decide if to get that.

Nellie

Hosed their hard drives? Do they mean it brounght Windows to a crashing halt? I use a MAC, and I will have to check out what happens to MAC OS, but I believe that it is compatible. Yes, let's be the LINUX somethings. Does Lassie sound too much like a dog? And Lady is not politically correct, if you are a feminist, and I am, though not the bra burning or put all the men in concentration camps kind. I love men! Lollapaloozas? Legends? Lionesses?

Linux Lionesses. I don't know...too many esses. Maybe linuxees? I downloaded the linux kernel sourcecode which is the heart of the whole thing. All I have to do now is learn more about it and figure out how to get it onto that new partition that is ready and waiting for it. I don't think Windows would take a liking to having another OS share its partition. I did see a book on Linux I wanted which has a CD with a copy of Linux on it.

Began reading THe Black Sun by Jack Williamson which is about a group of interstellar colonists on the last Quantum drive ship to leave earth who end up on a frozen planet circling a 'brown dwarf' sun. There is a mystery for from orbit they saw building-like structures and a strange rainbowlike light flash which came almost like an answer to their probes.

Linux is pronounced, around here, with a short "i", so it rhymes with lynx. Also, I am told that it is an Operating System. So, Nellie, what will we be doing with it when we master it? Is there software available? Still, as an intellectual challenge is should be enough by itself, n'est-ce-pas?

Jackie, I knew Linux is an OS, that's why you have to partition the hard drive; it won't co-exist with Windows or whatever OS you have on a Mac otherwise. I have my drive partitioned and the second partition is setup for the Linux file system. I also have the files needed to begin the install. The only thing I need to be able to do is boot into DOS by hitting the F8 key before windows begins to load...LOL, that may take a bit of practice. There are lots of programs available, and most are free. The place I downloaded my installation files from have a listing of over 2000.

Who knows? If I feel really courageous I might give Linux setup a try in the morning. I'll let you know if I did...this is Star Trek like...I'm going where I never went before LOL.

Since a lot of Hewlett-Packard users use both Windows and Linux, their computers come with 2 hard drives. Hewlett-Packard uses linux for a lot of the internal work.

There is shareware for MACs which allows the user to switch between operating systems. I use an HP at work, and it always starts its boot in DOS. Windows NT has a neat switch to DOS on its main menu. What does one do with LINUX? (I still want to say line-ux!)

And now for something completely different: I am readin a book that is hilarious! COnnie Willis, To Say Nothing of the Dog, is keeping me awake at night. I can't fall asleep when I am laughing so hard. Time travellers in search of The Bishop's Bird Stump travel to WWII Coventry, Victorian Muchings End, and various way stations. Check it out!

I finished reading Niven's Destiny Road. A nice story though at times I was a bit left asea especially as regarded the experiment going on for which Spiraltown seemed to be a control group. It was not totally clear what the experiment was -not to me at least.

I'm still getting prepared for installing Linux. I printed out all the instructions and one of the things it says to do is disable any shadow RAM. But I first had to ask some more knowledgable techies if that will do anything bad; it doesn't. So will disable tomorrrow and then see if I can hit that F8 key at the right time and see if it will install. Wish me luck.

Nellie: I wish you luck. Where you lead, I will try to follow. But not for a while--I am moving at the end of August, so my time is even more restricted than it was. I do look in at least once a day, so keep me posted, and I'll jump back in after the dust settles.

LOL I was hoping to finally get the Linux installed today but ended up spending all day away from the computer and didn't turn it on until after 4pm my time. I plan on having a whole day to do the deed.

I found To Say Nothing of the Dog and I was chortling and snorting right away. I was trying not to laugh out loud because I was reading in a foodcourt at the Big Mall while out with my sister Joan. The field of marshmallows really got to me. Though technically speaking there could be fields of marshmallows because the word can also refer to a plant. I found something on it in one of my Supercook Books:

"The name [marshmallow] is taken from the plant, the marsh mallow, a relative of the hollyhock, which grows in marshy places. A gum extracted from its roots was formerly used to make jellied sweets [candies]."

Interesting isn't it how a passage in one book can lead you to learn something in a totally different book?

I never thought of the etymology of the word marshmallow. How fascinating! Remember the old fashoned marshmallows? Someday I will try making them. These we get today make me want to barf.

Jackie: I have made my own marshmallows from a recipe I have and they are delicious.

I'm no closer to having Linux installed than I was before. I was all set to do it today. I hit that F8 key while booting up and got into DOS without Windows loading OK but then ran into a snag; when I gave the command to change to the directory the files I needed were in dear old DOS retorted with Invalid Directory. "What do you mean?" I ask it and retype the command with the same result. Now I look in my DOS for Dummies book to make sure I'm entering the command right; I am. So I give up and start up Windows. Then I check to see if the directory exists; it does, but not under the name I thought it had. I thought it was 'downloads2' because that is what I thought I typed in when I made the folder/directory but I must have not hit the 'n' key hard enough for it turned out to be 'dowloads2'.

Oh, Nellie: So funny, I have done that. You want to cry, but you have to laughh, too. We just got new computers at work, new system (Windows NT) and new software. I had been using NT and Office 97, but the new computers are nice--300mh, 4 gig, 128Mb of ram. However, my Access 97 program has a glitch--when I do a merge to print out the new psych admissions, it goes to S drive instead of the Word form I created. Who knows what is going on in its pointy little head?

LOL Jackie: those computers have minds of their own! I finally got DOS to do what I wanted and change the directory. Then happily I entered in the 'install.bat' I am supposed to run to install Linux...and got nowheres. Only got a rather cryptic message and that was it. But I haven't given up yet! Other people get Linux installed and so shall I.

I haven't done much reading for the last while since I'm more busy writing things for the secret project and doing graphics for character prototypes. LOL Now I'll have everyone even more curious as to what we are doing or making.

Nellie: Where is your sense of drama? Please, it has to be "Secret Project"! I'm getting some glimmers, here, could the SP possible be a Senior's version of D&D? Oh, Nellie, you are a card. BTW, I'm seeing more software for LINUX. My attempt will have to wait for a while.

I'm just barely reading, only when I fall into bed those few minutes until my eyes close. I am moving to a little house on August 28. No more almost-three flights of stairs. It even has a fireplace. So I'm am packing, have set up a very logical plan, a goal for each week until M Day. I'll be taking the week before Labor Day, Sept. 6, off from work to unpack. I can't wait.

Jackie: LOL a senior's version of D&D! No not quite that; it more leans towards a younger generation and will be educational and fun. We want it to be for children of "all" ages. Only I'm doing 'content development' which means interactive stories on certain themes, and I'm more a reader than I writer, so it is not easy going. I get lots of good ideas but it is executing those ideas that is hard. I also do all the prototype sketches of the characters involved and others are doing 3D animations from my sketches. I have to keep track of the hours I work on the Secret Project because when money comes in I will get paid for what I do. Also the two characters I created myself are my property and any money made from them goes to me too. There are some ten people working together online on the Project.

And now to books and reading: I found the most marvelous little book - about 300 pages by Robin Mckinley called Rose Daughter. It is a retelling of the story of The Beauty and the Beast. What a retelling it is! This is a lovely book and the author has woven her own love for roses and gardening into the story. You can almost smell the roses as she describes them and their different scents. I most love the ending in which Beauty has to chose between having the Beast become a handsome man and live a rich life and rule a kingdom, and having the Beast as he is and living a quiet life in a country cottage near a small village. Her choice is the latter because she loves the Beast as he is and could not stand to have him be something else. But get it if you can, it is such a good book!

I'm no further with Linux than before. I can't get the most important part to transfer over as a binary file, and it needs to be in that form for it to work. I follow directions exactly but each time it comes over as an HTML file...so I'm doing more studying and may have to wait until I can splurge on one of those books with a CD in the back.

I'm getting CDs with more of the same program I'm beta testing. I downloaded it from their server as well because my CD-ROM is so old most programs won't install using it. So I will install the downloaded one when the CD arrives and begin testing again then.

Nellie: BOok sounds good. So does Secret Project. There is a LINUX Conference and Expo here, beginning today. When I win the Lotto, you will have to come and stay with me for a few months, get the feel for this Silicon Valley area. I'd invite you now, but you probably wouldn't like sleeping on the floor! I'm so tired today, went to the Gift Show in SF yesterday, must have walked MILES. The most fabulous new stuff, my daughter works in a stationery store, actually it's social stationery, they print wedding invitations, birth announcements, etc. The last day, which will be Wednesday, everything is for sale. Next time we go, we'll bring a truck, filled with money, the money for the stuff, the truck to cart it all home.

Jackie, do they print napkins? We were wanting some for Chicago??

Ginny

Jackie: I'm laughing at the thought of sleeping on your floor. I'd never get up again without help, and I can just picture you trying to help me up.

If I ever win a lotto ,or make enough money to travel, then I can spend the rest of my life visiting all the people who have invited me to come and visit for a while. Or I could have them all come to visit me in my new mansion LOL.

Nellie: I'm not seriously crazy, just a little bit, hardly shows. But, I can't decide on the style of architecture for My Mansion, the one I'll build when I win the lotto. Spanish? Monterey Colonial? Queen Ann? California Ranch? (I need a life!)

Jackie, they all sound nice but I would tend to go for a modern California ranch with lots and lots of windows. Though I'd love something Victorian with all sorts of towers and lots of gingerbread trim with a big yard for gardens. It would not be Victorian inside though; inside it would be totally computerized; in fact I would literally have the house hooked up to the internet with very highspeed lines, so that I could be on the net no matter where I was in the house. LOL it needs to be a major lottery win!

We both sound just a little bit 'crazy' now don't we?

You know who Lady Schrapnell in To Say Nothing of the Dog reminds me of? Hyacinth in Keeping Up Appearances! And don't you love Tossy with all her quivering lace and her childish wilfullness? I wonder at this point what type of havoc bring the cat into the future has done to the timeline?

I have a job! I will be hosting a forum and getting paid for it. Not here of course, and not at Third Age -I work for free at both. Fun doing what I like and getting paid for it! It's part time -10 hours a week, so I'll have time for my other places too.

Tomorrow I will do the great Linux installation. I got a book with aCD in it to install from. I changed things in my computer BIOS so that it will boot from the CDROM drive when there is a bootable disk in there, so I'm all set. I want the day free for it because I have no idea how long it will take.

Nellie

Nellie: Congrats! A job, great. Also, best wishes for LINUX. Mac's will boot from "a" drive, if it is "occupied", before the hard drive; I don't know what drive my Mac's CDROM is, but at work the CDROM is "D" drive, and the hardrive is "C" drive so I can see your problem.

Our Nellie, always leading us in the new technologies!

Dear Sci Fi fans, we're about to have an EVENT on SeniorNet, a book discussion which features the AUTHOR too! Since it takes place in 2006, I wonder if you'd all like to join in? It starts September 15th, right here: The President's Astrologer .

Why not get a copy and join us, it looks like FUN!! A FIRST for SENIORNET BOOKS& LIT!!

Ginny

Life is funnier that fiction; imagine the "great" Reagan, consulting an astrologer. Not what I think of when I think Republican. The President's Astrologer sounds like fun. We SFers can add a touch of whimsy to the sober discussion. Hey, Nellie, are you still in LINUX Land? Come backkkkkkkkk.

No, I'm more still in Windows land, hahahaha! Not that I haven't tried installing Linux...and things go great up to a point -screens of text flash by too fast for me to read- and then they come to a halt with this rather neat little message: "Kernel panic: VFS: UNable to mount root fs on 08:11". The most I know is that 'fs' is 'file system' and the kernel is the heart/guts of the linux OS, but 08:11 that is a whole other question.

I have been given a place to ask or I can even e-mail the person and ask them privately. It will probably turn out to be something easy to fix, but when one has no idea what is going on it is more difficult.

I've recently started reading, for the first time, 2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY and I must say it's surprising. It starts out with a long foreword by the author and I must say it's pretty self important, perhaps would have been better as an afterword?

Then it begins, as I expect you all know, with a pretty heavy handed but well written account of Ape?Man? Moon Watcher and his brood? Kind of a hitch trying to bridge the gap between man and ape there at the very last if you noticed. Kinda slurred over the development of speech in favor of using tools. But Chimpanzees can use tools, not sure he made his point there, but it doesn't matter. It's interesting. I intend to read the entire series, did see the movie, am hoping the rest is more believable then the first.

Ginny

Ginny: it's been a long time since I read the Space Odyssey series. I'm not sure they ever become totally believable...suspension of disbelief is very neccesary when reading this, I think.

I started a good new book called Darwinia by Robert Charles Wilson. It begins in 1912 on the day the hero Guilford Law turns fourteen. During the night a strange light is seen all over the world, and a ship named the Oregon sails into what is supposed to be Cork Ireland and finds a whole new world, an alien world where Europe used to be. The story then fast forwards to 1920 and Guilford is arriving at the new continent of Darwinia with his wife and daughter to explore the mysteries of this strange alien place.

Very good so far...

Picked up two new books today: a paperback copy of The Masterharper of Pern by McCaffrey, and Bloom by Wil McCarthy; so I have some good reading to look forwards to.

I haven't given up on the Linux thing yet. I found a nice fellow to ask questions of, and he has given me some good hints to get me started. Maybe tomorrow I'll have it installed which is the most important step. I'll keep notes and that way I might be able to help others too.

The new job is going very well; I love doing it. LOL who wouldn't like getting money for doing the very thing I'm doing at this moment?

Well, must be on my way once more, see you all later.

Nellie, I just loved all the Ann McCaffrey "Pern" books, I think I've read them all. Just re-read one of her crystal singer books, "Killashandra". Also re-read a C.S. Lewis book too, I guess they are meant for children but I enjoy them too.(:

Eileen Megan

Eileen: I started just a few pages into Masterharper...and it promises to be very good. I like the Crystal Singer series too.

I finally did it! Installed Linux! Didn't keep too many notes because the whole process of what installs as to drivers depends upon each individual computer. I'm not using it yet because it stubbornly refuses to recognize my network card, and I can't get my xwindows system setup...so I left a message for my online guru and shall wait patiently for answers. Once I actually got going, the actual installation is not that difficult but it does take time and you spend a lot of time choosing which thing to do or add. It is of primary importance that you know everything about your system in great detail. I had mine printed out and put away in a 'safe' place, and then forgot where that was; but I did find it. I also spent a lot of the time furiously paging through my Linux book. But it did get done. Finally whew!

Congratulations, Nellie. I knew you would do it. This is definitely the way to go.

LOL Jackie, some poor guy at E-Minds gets daily messages from me about the newest thing that is not working. I tell you one thing Linux is not yet the OS for the new computer user, at least not if you have to install and configure it yourself. Working with a command line interface is hard when you are used to Windows. It does have a windows system but I haven't got that set up yet. But I'm having fun learning it and that is what counts...

Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy

Started as a comody series of 6 1/2hr radio shows.

Became a best selling book, which become a four part trilogy.

Also a 6 part TV series.

Also a web site Http://www.h2g2.com

We are now threatened with a big screen Disney version.

To me It works best as a Radio Play - the strange play on words and concepts still slay me - eg

"It's unpleasantly like being drunk" -- "whats unpleasant about being drunk" -- " You ask a glass of Water"

Another trilogy they are going to make into a movie is "Lord of the Rings", good luck to them!

Eileen Megan

Eileen: I heard that they were filming a live action Lord of the Rings. If done right it should be very good. I didn't like that cartoon version that was made many years ago. But they can do such spectacular special effects nowadays and with a lot of the magical stuff in the story that is needed...

I was going to say more but it slipped out of my mind, maybe it will reappear later.

Nellie,

I agree the previous attempts were very poorly done. And, yes, this one is supposed to have real live actors. They can do remarkable things these days. When I saw "Forrest Gump", I was sure actor Gary Sinise didn't have legs - how'd they do that!

Eileen Megan

I found another of Connie Willis' time travel stories called The Doomsday Book. It is the story of a young woman who travels back into the 14th century and becomes trapped there. It has some of the same characters as in To Say Nothing of the Dog.

But the book I am devouring at the moment is the second in the Otherland series by Tad Williams called River of Blue Fire.

Just thought I'd peek in and say "hello"...I haven't been reading any SF lately as I'm catching up on piles of magazines.

Hello back to you, Nellie. Still busy with settling in the house. So many boxes of books and not nearly enough shelves for them. Have you read Branch Point, by Mona Clee? I found it in one of my boxes, would swear I'd never read it. Quite entertaining. Time travel, with US history, political type, both stimulus and vehicle for the story. TTFN

Hi Jackie: No I haven't read Branch Point; I must keep a look out for it next time I visit the bookstore. On a recent visit I finally found Tepper's Six Moon Dance...they had put it in with the regular books and I kept looking in the SF & Fantasy section. Also found a book with a number of stories on the internet of the future called Web 2070.

Sad to read of Marion Zimmer Bradley's death. Strange how a series of books, like her Darkover stories, becomes part of your personal landscape. Her imaginings have brought so many hours of pleasure to my family and others, we will be the poorer for her passing.

Jackie: that is sad news you pass on about Marion Zimmer Bradley, I very much enjoy her books.

I 'type' this courtesy of my new keyboard which is attached to my new computer. My old one died on Sunday morning, leaving me with two days of no internet since it was a long holiday weekend. I figured a dead old computer was a perfect excuse for a new one.

The Doomsday Book by Connie Willis is a must get. It is as good, if not better than To Say Nothing of the Dog. She is fast becoming one of my favorite writers and I'm on the lookout for more books penned by her.

I am truly sad about Marion Zimmer Bradley.. I always thought of Darkover as going on forever and now it is forever ceased... Such a wonderful world...

Perhaps another writer will keep Darkover alive. It is possible. I bought a new book in Asimov's Foundation series called Foundation's Fear written by gregory Benford. It uses Asimov's characters, ideas, and worlds.

Reading is falling more and more by the wayside lately. I did finish reading a technothriller with SF undertones called Icefire by Judy and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. Fast and enjoyable read about a series of nuclear explosions which literally 'shoot' the Ross iceshelf from Antarctica into the ocean setting in motion a soliton wave which threatens to destroy most of the Pacific Rim coastal areas and all the islands. The hero and heroine are in a race against time to warn people that the wave is coming, and to find a way to stop it. When they do find a way to stop the wave, there are two parties who try everything in their power to keep the wave going. Nevertheless, in the end the good guys win.

Sorry to be around so infrequently, but time seems to fly and I never have time in the day for doing everything I want to do.

Nellie....Do what you like ... and like what you do.... makes happy retirement.

Now if I could just follow that prescription. Our retirement so far is extremely hectic.. But then my husbands 97 year old mother is alive and she does create problems all on her own.. Then various illnesses from friends and we seem to run all the time.

Pat, I do exactly that...do what I like *smile*

I am reading a very enjoyable book at the moment called Web 2070: it contains a series of novelettes written by different authors which all have a common setting and common characters.

Do you consider Harry Potter as Sci Fi and Has anyone read them.. Am considering since I love separate worlds and magic..

I read the first one I ("borrowed") it from my GDaughter. I thought it was light and fun. My kind of genre. Certainly nothing EVIL as some sorry folks seem to preceive it. I'm reading Lawheads Dragonking trilogy now. I love clear cut good and bad guys. Guess thats why I always liked John Wayne and Disney

I haven't read any of the Harry Potter books as yet, although I would like to...from the sounds of them they have both aspects of Sci-Fi and Fantasy in them.

Clear cut good guys and bad guys...I think we all like that. Perhaps that is why the Lord of the Rings trilogy by Tolkien is such an all time favorite?

Got the first Harry Potter.. Will let you know how I feel at the end.. Also found the latest Freedom book from Anne McCaffrey.. An enjoyable series thus far.

I haven't read any of the Freedom series; I should start collecting it and reading because I do like everything McCaffrey writes after all.

I bought SimCity 3000 for my new computer which means I'm getting caught up in city building. I have two started but since neither one satisfies me, I'll start still another one.

I picked some new books which all give promise of being good reads:

Proxies by Laura J. Mixon
Rift by Kay Kenyon
Moonseed by Stephen Baxter
Inversions by Iain M. Banks

I'll have to read something by McCaffrey just so I'll have something to summarize here. The book I'm currently reading (Fairyland by Paul J. McAuley) is very good but for me at least totally impossible to summarize because so many things happen and so many new concepts are introduced.

Ahhh Sim City. I have a slightly earlier version than yours. I started a long time ago with the first type. I also have Sim Farm, but do not like that one nearly as much.. My current version is confusing with the water works .. Makes it difficult to plan, but then I am sure that this was true originally with adding water and sewer to houses.. Freedom..The third in the series is wonderful. Anne McCaffrey has always had the capability of making me think, She has quite a lot to say in the Freedom books about prejudice.. The nature of it and how it happens.. Lovely books...

Deart Nellie, Good to see this thread still going strong. Two new real good ones to report. CRYPTOMONICON by Neal Stephenson and SOULS IN A GREAT MACHINE by Sean McMullen. Both mind strechers. One yr and 42 days to retirement and counting.

Hi Arnie: I haven't read Cryptonomicon yet but I did read Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson and enjoyed it a lot. I've not heard of Sean McMullen before but shall see if I can find the book you mention.

I've noticed that there are two major 'themes' in SF nowadays: one is nanotechnology and the other is virtual reality. What do you think?

Stephanie: I started off with the original SimCity now called SimCity Classic; then I got SimCity 2000 -which must be the one you have- and had trouble with that water thing too at the first. In SimCity 3000 they have added garbage disposal - you either have to zone for a landfill or build an incinerator or the sims will dump garbage everywhere. It also has agriculture as a form of light industry - but it takes some very special conditions for a farm to show up.

I have found two books in what looks to be an interesting new series by C.J.Cherryh called Cloud's Rider and Rider at the Gate respectively. The story is set on a world where the indigenous life is telepathic and a special group called Riders works together with the alien Nighthorses.

Just stopping in to say "hello". I'm wishing I could think of ways to make this discussion a bit more interesting. Any ideas?

How are things going in the new job, Nellie? I've often thought of you and wondered how things were?

Ginny

Dear Nellie, Nanotechnology is hot! And I think Playstation II and it's ilk will probably do away with having to buy a PC or Imac to get on the net. And I understand the VR already in it will be spectacular. I also think that Nano will in the not too distant, be used for seniors and medicine.

Hi Ginny! The new job is going fine. Essentially I do the same type of thing as I do here - only more often - keep conversations flowing, and add new conversations when I think it is warranted. Only we hosts can start a discussion. The hardest thing is to find a topic folks want to talk about, and getting the lurkers to join in and post. I always have this feeling that those of us who do post are just too interesting so that our regular lurkers follow our conversations without joining in.

Arney: I've read about nanomachines being injected in future times in the body and doing such things as keeping the arteries clear of plaque. It is also interesting that you think people will access the Internet more through machines such as Playstation than through computers...I think it will be both for a long time though, because I'm sure a lot of folks are like me and use the computer for more than just the Internet.

I'm finally getting into Tepper's Six Moon Dance. What a fascinating place Newholme is with its society in which men have to wear veils, birth is a sacred ritual, women have consorts called Hunks, and the natives live invisible lives inside the walls and the hidden spaces of the building, and take care of the young children and do chores. I must not forget the Questioner; the machine sent out to make certain everyone is following the edicts of Haraldson; who is on the way to Newholme...and Ellin the clone who dances ballet in one of the History Houses; and Bao who dances female roles in Kabuki in the Asian History House...both have been chosen by the Questioner to join her on Newholme...where something strange, mysterious, and very dangerous is happening...and Mouce who is training to be a Hunk, somehow stands at the center of it all...though he does not know it yet.

Dear Nellie Before going to work... Tepper makes this old MCP very uncomfortable:-) Try Nanoflower by Peter Hamilton. 1st of a trilogy in the near future. VR, Nano - good stuff.

Must get that Tepper.. Sounds like a keeper. Still struggling with the Doctor who keeps a small zoo and travels around.. Just too too fraught.. May drop it, although the idea is certainly interesting. The execution is not good.

Hi, just popping in....I read 6 Moon Dance when it first came out and I loved it. I've also just read Singer From the Sea; this one was a little weird but I enjoyed it too. Don't want to give anything away but there was a twist that should have been obvious to me. I think Raising the Stones was possibly the best book ever written.

I read Anne McCaffrey for the first time when I was in junior high school. I have to say the more recent Pern books are quite awful; The Masterharper of Pern was more of a summary than a story, and the Dolphins book was just dreadful. It was nearly exactly the same story as Dragonsong. But I still love the earlier ones, and Dragonsdawn is probably my favorite. I'm also enjoying the Freedom series.

Connie Willis--I'm really enjoying this author too. Has anyone here read Bellwether? A scream. I liked To Say Nothing of the Dog, but Doomsday book was too dark for me.

Arney: I've read Nanoflower and found it very good. I've got a number of books by Peter Hamilton.

Stephanie: that doctor with a zoo sounds familiar - is it written by Jody Lynn Nye?

Welcome Ellen: I haven't read Connie Willis' Bellwether as yet but it sounds like it will be one I would like. I also saw a new book by her of a collection of Christmas stories.

Raising the Stones is very good but I couldn't tell you which Tepper book is my favorite - in a way they all are.

I'm into a good exciting book at the moment called Moonseed by Stephen Baxter. It is about something alien that crashes into the Earth during the time the Earth is forming and causes the moon to come into existence. Then this alien thing lies buried in the moon until a little piece of it is brought back by one of the Apollo astronauts who thinks it is nothing more than a moonrock. Many years later when the rock is being studied in Scotland one of the lab workers sneaks out some of the dust to show to his sister - she is not interested so they throw the moondust away, and it promptly begins to eat the rock it is on...the end result is a growing pool of a strange silver dust and a major volcanic erupton...I must not forget, there is also Venus blowing apart and being turned into some sort of engine for a starship perhaps. But the alien thing -nanomachines some suspect - have eaten their way into the Earth. They must go to the moon to study the alien thing there and find out what keeps it from being active there.

That's as far as I have gotten, but it is a real page turner...

Nellie, Yes it was the Jody Lynn Nye.. first one,, there is a second one for sure in the series.. I will put off reading the second just now. The first was slow... developement was boring.. I was not that fond of the ones she did with McCaffrey and I adore McCaffrey

Stephanie: I know the book you mean: it is called Taylor's Ark, right? I remember half liking it and half not; I found it one of those ambiguous books, and I don't think I bought any more books by Jody Lynn Nye.

C.J. Cherryh has always been a favorite author of mine and I've recently discovered some new series she has done. One is set on a planet where all indigenous life is telepathic; the other involves a ship full of human colonist who become lost and end up on an alien planet with intelligent life. The first book of this series is Called Foreigner.

Cherryh did some interesting things. It took me forever to discover it is a woman..

Stephanie: Did you ever read the Faded Sun series by Cherryh? I'm reading her Rider At The Gate right now - which turned out to be the first in a series of two books, so far. It is the story about the planet with the telepathic wildlife which includes the very intelligent horselike Nighthorses. There are people called Riders who are able to work together with the nighthorses. The telepathy of the nighthorses and the other animals is a danger to humans who must constantly control their emotions. In the beginning of this story uncontrolled anger and hatred set off a wave of the same emotions through the town. I like the way that is done.

like the idea and think I read it some time ago.. A reread is in order..Now to catch up on the thousands of set aside books.. When we closed our store, I kept anything that interested me.. You can imagine how many books I have tucked away in corners.. Will probably never read them all. They are old stuff , that I just never read.. Oh well... Hoarding books makes me feel safe to never run out of reading material.

Stephanie: you are like me; I too keeps books around that I plan to read or reread but probably never will; but I like to have lots of books around 'just in case'.

Did you know a Pern TV series is being worked on? I read that in a short interview with McCaffrey in the back of her newest book -paperback version -called Nimisha's Ship.

Well fellow Science Fiction fans, some of you are already in the year 2000 AD and some like myself still have about 1 hour and 20 minutes to wait...Happy New Year for those who are already there...

Soon I too will be in the millennium in which so many of the stories we have read take place, and in which the SF TV shows like Star Trek take place as well...The Future is finally here!

Happy New Year! I'm now officially in the year 2000...the beginning of the time when all the SF stories are set!

Hi, all--I've been reading lots of sci fi over the holidays. I read Card's Ender's Shadow. I liked it better than the last three Ender books, although it still didn't live up to the original. Of course maybe nothing will.

Next I found Connie Willis' Uncharted Territory. This was pretty funny (especially to me--I live in New Mexico); also turned out to be romantic.

And I read Octavia Butler's Dawn. Has anyone else out there read this one? I raced through it and kept expecting a plot twist that never came. It was a bit unsatisfying. But this is one of those books I've been keeping around to read someday--I guess someday finally came.

By the way, how has Voyager been lately? We lost our UPN station and all I can see are the reruns!

Ellen: Welcome to the discussion! I read Dawn and found it fairly enjoyable, mainly because of the concepts involved.

I'm getting a lot of Voyager reruns right now also...so I can't tell much about it.

I've been reading Kurzweil's The Age Of Spiritual Machines which is not Science Fiction although it has many predictions about the future of computers which are very SF in nature. This is an interesting and very good read - I highly recommend it.

I'm also rereading some of my old books - am into Glen Cook's The Black Company series: The Black Company, Shadows Linger, and The White Rose.

Just stopping in to say 'hello'. I haven't been doing that much reading in the last week: I finished Cherryh's Rider At The Gate, and am now reading the sequel Cloud's Rider.

Cherryh has created a very interesting world - a world with no name. It is a place of great danger for humans; there are creatures that strip a person to the bone in minutes, if not seconds. Every creature is telepathic and broadcasts its viewpoint of the world around it to every other creature including humans. So it is a world where humans can never be sure that what they see is real because the creatures of the world will show false visions to trap their prey. At the top of the world's food chain stands the horselike Nighthorse -a deadly carnivore instead of a herbivore, and the most intelligent species on the planet. The nighthorses are there when man arrives in his spaceships. They are attracted by the minds of men and choose those who have the ability to hear them telepathically as companions; these companions become known as Riders.

The nighthorses and their riders are the only thing that allow humans to survive on the world. The nighthorses keep away the dangerous animals because all other animals fear them. Only nighthorses which have chosen human riders are willing to be near humans. The whole human population lives in a few walled towns and mining camps. Each town or camp has a separate walled enclosure for the horses and riders, there for the town's protection. No one ever travels without the presence of a rider and his horse. But according to the religion of the settlers the riders are evil because to listen to the beasts of the world is an evil thing.

One of the worst things in this world is a nighthorse whose rider has died, such a horse turns rogue. In Rider At The Gate a rogue horse causes the destruction of a whole town and destroys the mind of a young girl who believes she can 'hear' the horses and that she has been chosen as its rider. In this story we also meet Danny Fisher and his horse Cloud who go up into the High places to help a friend and find danger and adventure that will try them both to the utmost.

I like the way everyone in close range of the nighthorses has to control their emotions because the horses react to those emotions and pass them on. We get the sense of this in the beginning of the book when there is a conflict between the riders and their anger is broadcast by the horses into the town of Shamesey, so that even those who live in the most protected center of town are affected.

Anyways a very good book...and so far so is the sequel.

I always love Sci Fi, but haven't read much, in fact I think I have only read two books, I think one was made into a move, but can't remember the name, I remember it was about a small town that had visitors and the goverment hid it from the public, it was a true story I remember that, anything new ever come out of that? Years and years ago, I read and still have Majestic by Strieber. I usually read historic adventure and that's kept me busy, but now it's time to get back to SCI FI, can anyone please recommend the top SciFi authors, please.

Welcome Maril! Two authors I like are Sheri S. Tepper and Anne McCaffrey - both write some very good stories. For Tepper I would recommend Gibbon's Decline and Fall, The Family Tree, and Raising the Stones; and for McCaffrey I would go for the Pern series, and her newest paperback Nimisha's Ship is very good. Greg Bear is another writer I enjoy -I'd try his Queen of Angels and its sequel Slant. Connie Willis -especially her To Say Nothing of the Dog -is another good writer. There are also the old standbys such as Orson Scott Card, Piers Anthony, Gregory Benson, Asimov, Clarke.

Books like Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age, Snow Crash, and Cryptinomicon can also be good reads. Peter F. Hamilton is another excellent author - try his The NanoFlower for starters.

I hope these give you some idea of what Sci-Fi authors and books to look out for.

Thanks Nellie,

I'll check them out.

Your welcome, Maril. I hope you will share with us about the books you enjoyed the best, and also about those you did not enjoy.

I bought a couple of new books yesterday while on my usual weekly outing with my sister. One is Avalance Soldier by Susan R. Matthews, and the other is Earth Made of Glass by John Barnes. Both show promise of being good reads.

Hello everybody: I'm new here although I do a lot of posting in several other Roundtables. Just finished Harry Potter and The Green Mile. I've never been much into Sci-Fi but I like Isaac Asimov so picked up a book by him and Robert Silverberg called The Ugly Little Boy published in 1992, based on a short story by the same name Asimov wrote in 1958. It's about a time travel experiment in the 21st Century to "scoop up" an inhabitant from the world that existed 40,000 years ago. What they "scoop up" is a frightened 4 year old boy still covered with roots, pebbles, leaves, dirt and everything that came up with him and then try to discover if he is an ape-boy, or a human child. The story of his development, the woman who was hired to care for and nurture him and their eventual destiny is fascinating. I'd like to suggest this for a read someplace.....where do I do that? I've enjoyed going back and reading all of your postings.

Gail

Welcome Gail! You just recommended 'The Ugly Little Boy' to me, it sounds good. Do you mean recommend the book for discussion? So far we have never tried discussing any science fiction book. It is something to think about.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!

Welcome to this discussion. It's so good to be back and hear from you! Its been a long wait and we never gave up seeing you in here when the Books folder was repaired!!

I suppose I can safely post something in our science fiction corner...I am rereading Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast and I just love all the excentric characters and the descriptions that paint word pictures in your mind. Then there are the names he gives his characters...names such as Titus Groan, Steerpike, Flay, Barquentine, Prunesquallor, Bellgrove, Perch-Prism and Opus Fluke to give but a few examples.

I also bought the second of the Liveship Traders series by Robin Hobb called Mad Ship in which the tale of the Vestrids, the liveships and the pirate Kennit(sp) continues.

So has anyone else been doing some enjoyable reading of SF lit?

I am, I just finished INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS and liked it very much, a bit different from the movie, different angle, especially on the fire at the end.

I really enjoyed it. I'm trying to CATCH up reading these older books but I'm enjoying the experience.

Ginny

Hi Ginny, nice to see you! I've been reading a number of my old books too. This comes as a result of moving books from the garage hobby room to the basement. Every time I look through the piles I find books I suddenly want to read again.

I'm also reading a good new McCaffrey book by name of Nimisha's Ship.

I didn't care for his "Domes Of Fire", found it slow without much excitment, actually found it boring. I didn't even finish the book, although, I finished more then 3/4 of it. Maybe I didn't enjoy it because I didn't start from the beginning of the series. Not sure I liked the way the author writes, but I am willing to give it another try if you think it's worth reading. What say you all?

Received two of her tapes on Saturday, "The White Dragon" and Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern, but waiting for all of the Pern Series so I can start from the beginning. I am getting excited, hope they are as good as I have heard.

Hi Maril, are the tapes read by McCaffrey, or by someone else? I can't comment on David Eddings as I don't think I have ever read anything by him. I have looked at his books in the bookstore but none has caught my interest that much; so I would think that your reaction to the Domes of Fire was not off the mark -so to speak.

Started on Jack Chalker's Sea Full of Stars -(hope I got the title right; I'm too lazy to run downstairs and get the book)

PLEASE, can anyone list the Pern Series in order.

Ever so greatful,

Maril

Nellie,

They are read by someone else, I have never come across a tape that was read by an author. I have a learning disability and it's hard for me to read, so I am eligible for the Braille Institute Library Services.

Maril, here comes the list of all the Pern books I know about, in order (I hope).

Dragonflight
Dragonquest
The White Dragon
Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern
Nerilka's Story
Dragonsdawn
The Renegades of Pern
The Dolphins of Pern
All The Weirs of Pern
Dragon's Eye
Masterharper of Pern

and there is also this little series:

Dragondrums
Dragonsinger
Dragonsong

Hope this is of help to you.

I found a couple of sites that fans of Anne McCaffrey may find of interest:

Dragonhold: McCaffrey's own site

about Anne McCaffrey

The latter one gives a listing of all her books.

I'm reading a very good book by Jack L. Chalker named The Moreau Factor. It can best be described as a science fiction mystery thriller. It begins with Chuck Vallone, an old fashioned type newspaper reporter, arriving for a meeting with a genetisist who has promised him the story of the century, only to find out that his source has been literally turned into mincemeat by some mysterious creature. Further investigation is leading him more into danger, and increases the mystery that is going on.

I'm only a few chapters into this but it is good!

I picked up a couple of new books today: Ghost of the Well of Souls by Jack Chalker, and Flash Forward by Robert J. Sawyer.

I'm reading Aftermath by Charles Sheffield. It tells the story of what happens to the Earth after Alpha Centauri goes super nova. This has some devastating effects on Earth such as weather changes and an EMP that destroys all computer chips and knocks everything back to a more primitive mode.

One of the things that I find an interesting concept in the story is of criminals being put on ice in what is called Judicial Sleep. But this is a sidebar to the story, although two people who have been put away for hundreds of years feature prominently in the story itself.

The story follows the adventures of three groups of people, and the president of the U.S.A. One group is made up of three people -Art, Dana and Seth-who were receiving experimental cancer treatments that must be continued if they are to survive the disease. They meet at the treatment facility only to discover it has been attacked and everyone in it killed. Then they come up with the idea to wake the creator of the treatment method from judicial sleep so that he can give them what they need. This brilliant doctor and scientist is also a mass murderer.

The second group are a militant religious cult whose female leader is also rescued from the sleep facility...

The third group are the seven astronauts who went to explore Mars and are on their way home when the supernova occurs. When they arrive back at Earth orbit they have to find their own way down as all those who would have handled that are dead and none of the electronics work. Using parts from their Mars spaceship they fit out two shuttles found at one of the orbitting space stations. The first shuttle carying three of the astrnauts burns up in the athmosphere because of an unexpected error in the re-entry calculations. The second shuttle makes it down safely. But the four on board end up in the clutches of the religious sect, and their leader considers space exploration to be the invasion of heaven and totally against the word of God.

That's as far as I have gotten...

Back when I read Brave New World I thought it was Science Fiction, but it,s not far from fact now.

Welcome Butch, it is nice to see you here. It is true that a lot of the things in the old science fiction stories such as Brave New World have now become reality or are close to becoming real.

What other science fiction have you read or like to read now?

Hi everyone:Back in 1980, the first public-television made-for-TV movie, The Lathe Of Heaven based on the novel by Ursula K. LeGuin,was broadcast.

It's never been available on video,and it's the most requested program in public TV's archives,more people have asked for it than Three Tenors.

Finally,the rights and clearances have been untangled & the tape has been digitally remastered,and some public TV stations are showing it this weekend.

Lathe, is a multilayered meditation on the nature of reality.It has an outstanding script,terrific performances and a mind-blowing ending. Some critics call it the lost link between John-Luc Godard's "Alphaville, Ridley Scott's "Blade Runner" and 'The Matrix".

The film takes it's title from a quotation by the Taoist philosopher,Chuang Tzu: 'To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment. Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe oh heaven."

If you miss it on PBS,it will be available on VHs & DVD in the fall.

Ed, thanks for letting us know! I have the book and read it again not that long ago; it would be interesting to see how true the TV version is to the book.

I have a lot of books waiting in the wings waiting to be read, but right now the sunshine and the garden exert a strong pull on me.

Has anybody read The Earth Chronicles by Zecharia Sitchin. He has already written five books. Book I is titled The 12th Planet. Book II is titled The Staiway to Heaven. Book III is The Wars of Gods and Men. Book IV is The Lost Realms. I am now reading Book V titled When Time Began. I found it very thrilling and educational.

Welcome TohernarA! Zecharia Sitchin is an author I have not heard of before But the books do sound interesting; and I'm always eager to read authors who are new to me.

I hope you can tell us a bit more about the books. Do you have any other books or authors that you enjoy reading?

I picked up three new books on my once weekly raid on the local bookstore:

Biting the Sun by Tanith Lee
The First Immortal by James L. Haperin
Circuit of Heaven by Dennis Danvers

Finished a very good book by Greg Bear last called Darwin's Radio. It was about a retrovirus which exists in human DNA and which expresses itself only at times when the human race needs to evolve. The virus regulates the needed changes. But it is considered a disease that must be cured and eradicated until the stories hero Kaye Lang figures out what it really is. She meets and falls in love with Mitch an anthropologist and since both he and she are infected with the virus, undergoes the strange pregnancy of the sheva virus as it is called. There is a first fetus which is always female and consists mainly of an ovary that provides the material for the new human baby and is then rejected. But there is a problem, all the sheva babies are born dead -why is revealed towards the end of the book - and it seems that the new humans or homo sapiens novus may never get its start on Earth. The parents of the sheva babies also undergo many physical changes so that they will be able to communicate with their own children.

A nicely done book and a most enjoyable read!

I just started reading The Golden Cat by Gabriel King which continues the story begun in his The Wild Roads. I love the way that the cats and other animals are the protagonists and humans mainly exist in passing with the exception of the very evil Alchemist who wants to be like cats and because of that tortures them by experimenting on them to find out what makes them tick...some of the lab scenes are horrific, like Cat-X and his 'cellmates' who are kept standing in a small box with their heads sticking out of a hole so that they cannot lie down or move in anyway, and occasionally are removed to have something mysterious and painful done to them. I am glad it is only a story and hopefully those things don't really happen.

I will say this: there is an explosion in the lab and Cat-X, Stilton -a cat who talked endlessly on the pleasures of Stilton cheese, and the golden kitten who had been recently brought there have escaped from their cages at least...I haven't read further, but I'm rooting for them to escape altogether.

This poor discussion is rather quiet and deserted. Even I don't visit much...but I don't like to talk just to myself; I do that enough at my work. Maybe I jinx discussions?

I am working on something to spice this place up but it is in the think and scribble stage.

Have you ever struggled through a book that is both boring and yet not boring enough to put aside? I have such a book in Iain M. Bank's Inversions - it is very highly rated by the critics; but for me it is overall boring with individual highlights that do keep me going. It tells two stories by alternating chapters and while the one story is quite enjoyable the other is boring.

Has anyone read some good SF lately?

I have another good read to recommend: This Alien Shore by C.S. Friedman.

Hi, Nellie, I haven't visited here in a while but I have been reading! In particular I'm re-reading Mercedes Lackey's Heralds of Valdemar books. Technically I suppose they're fantasy rather than sci-fi. In any case, I enjoyed her Tarma and Kethry books and I liked Valdemar the first time I read those. The problem this time is that I'm really finding them dull. The first six books were haunted by a lack of suspense and incredibly lucky characters. Also, who needs politics in fantasy?

So, I don't know if you've read them, but they are incredibly popular (I think there are 16 separate books now) and I can't figure out why! Is anybody out there a fan, could you tell me why you like them?

Hello Ellen, nice to see you again. I have looked at some of the Mercedes Lackey books in the bookstore but never got around to buying as there was always a book that seemed more interesting further along. I can only afford one or two books a week and thus must be picky.

Since you are finding that the books don't read well the second time around, that may explain why I don't find them good enough for reading the first time around.

Have you read books that did not seem very good on the first reading, but that were much better upon a second reading?

Sheri S. Tepper's Singer From the Sea is one of the best books I've read in a longish while. I very much recommend it to all SF fans.

Another book recommendation: Earth Made of Glass by John Barnes. Two diplomats are given the task of finding a way to integrate the planet Briand with its two warring cultures into the Thousand Cultures.

Nellie, I loved that book! I was not at all ready for the ending, were you?

I've read many books that were much better the second time around. Huckleberry Finn leaps to mind--not Sci Fi, I know, but I didn't get it the first time I read it. The Discworld books, in particular anything with Granny Weatherwax in it--they get funnier every time I read them. Connie Willis' short stories are better the second time around. In general, though, if I didn't enjoy it the first time, I don't read it a second time.

I'm getting ready to sell off the Valdemar collection (mine runs to 11 terrible books) tomorrow. We have a used bookstore here that gives credits that can also be used in an affiliated new bookstore. I think this is a terrific deal--old books for new! I'll keep your recommendations in mind, as I'm having a terrible time finding new books to read lately.

Hello Ellen! Were you surprised by the ending of Singer From The Sea, or disappointed that the book was finished? I was disappointed that it was finished myself; I was enjoying it so much that I wanted lots more.

Have you read any of the Otherland series by Tad Williams? The books in it are: City of Golden Shadow, River of Blue Fire, and Mountain of Black Glass. There is at least one more book coming. The story is very intricate with many characters but it is well written and the adventure and mystery keep one reading to find out what will happen next.

Another book I recommend is a first novel by Marc Matz called Nocturne For A Dangerous Man.

Who writes the discworld series? I can't remember having read it.

Nellie:

Are you familiar with the magazine, BOOK...the Magazine for The Reading Life.

You can usually find it in large bookstores like B & N or Borders

The September/October 2000 issue ( Anne Rice on the cover) has an article about Ursula K. Le Guin....quite an interesting person.

Le Guin's The Lathe of Heaven is now out on video tape...I saw it in Blockbuster last week.

Ed, I'm not familiar with the magazine but I've made a note of it and shall see if I can find it. Le Guin is one of the better writers in SF imo.

Each of the three books in the new Foundation Trilogy does a good job of adding to the original Foundation stories begun by Isaac Asimov. The new story as told in the three books is set in the life time of Hari Seldon and relates about his work on psychohistory and the creation of the Foundation.

Each book can stand on its own and yet the three writers have created a single coherent story that takes place over three books.

What books by Asimov do you have? Which one do you consider the best?

Enchantment is a faery tale set not in the deep past but in our own modern time. It tells the story of how first young Ivan -a mere boy- see a beautiful woman asleep on a high pedestal surrounded by leaves...and in those leaves is something unseen; something which terrifies him so that he runs away.

Many years later he returns to the place and that is when the tale really begins.

Now back to Asimov for a bit: my favourite books are The Caves of Steel, The Foundation Trilogy, and The Gods Themselves -which is I think the few times, if not the only time that Asimov wrote about alien creatures.

The Family Tree is a delightful read with a marvelous surprise. It is set both in our own era and in the far future. The stories are told separately until the charcters from the future use a time machine or time magic is perhaps the better word, to go back into the past to defeat some evil that escaped into the past.

Feel free to express your thoughts on the recommended books or on any other sci-fi book you have read or are reading.

This week's book is a lovely and different retelling of the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale. The descriptions of roses growing are so lush and sensual that you can almost smell the aroma as you read.

Again, I extend an invitation to join in and talk about your favourites or to comment on the weekly suggestions.

A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge is a novel of first contact. Two human groups, the Emergents who use people as tools, and the Qeng Ho who are an alliance of free traders wait for the chance at first contact with the spiderlike natives of the planet Arachna which orbits the OnOff sun. As the sun relights there is treachery on the part of the Emergents which leaves the humans trapped in the OnOff system and now they depend on the Arachnids developing a space faring technology in order to get home.

If you want this book, Search at B&N doesn't seem to find it. You will have to go to the Science Fiction & Fantasy front door and it is for now listed under Recent Features.

I would love to hear what you think of this or any of the recommended books.

This week there are two books I have chosen as the Book of the Week: Both are by Paul J. McAuley

Child of the River: First Book of the Confluence.

I'll let the Publisher speak about this one since he gets the gist of the book so much better than I do:

From the Publisher
Child of the River is the first book of the end times; the beginning chapter in the final great epic of a mysterious civilization. In it, a singular young man named Yama makes his way from a ghostly city of the dead to a metropolis of living wonders, and through the labyrinthine country of the mind, in search of a lost past and a destiny that is both his and his world's. Every path Yama follows - each hairbreadth escape and unanticipated adventure - brings him a step closer to the staggering truth about his heritage and his purpose. And exposes, bit by bit, the astonishing reality of his world, which is not what it appears to be.

Ancients of Days: Second Book of the Confluence.

Again I'll let the Publisher speak:

From the Publisher
On an artificial world created and seeded with ten thousand bloodlines by the long-vanished Preservers, young Yama's ancestry is unique, for he appears to be the last remaining scion of the Builders, closest of all races to the worshipped architects of Confluence. And on a day near the end of the world, Yama must finally acknowledge the power he neither anticipated nor desires.

In the dust of many crumbling bureaucracies, Yama searches for an identity and a history-awed and fearful of his ever-growing capacity to awaken the terrible machines of destruction that his world's absent gods left slumbering. To the common folk-the unshaped and aboriginal—he is the fulfillment of age-old prophecies. To the functionaries of the Department of Indigenous Affairs, he is a weapon to be molded and used in the bloody civil war raging at the planet's midpoint—a seemingly endless battle that pits those who revere the Preservers' laws against the dangerous Heretics who would obliterate all antiquated values and codes of conduct.

But there are still others who have taken notice of Yama as he pursues the hidden secrets of his past. Intelligent powers older than the Builders-as old, perhaps, as the Preservers themselves—are pursuing Yama in turn. And they will stop at nothing to control his present—and, as a result, the future of everything that lives—in anticipation of the ultimate triumph of the Ancients of Days.

Both books are excellent examples of science fiction epics and most excellent to read.

I would like it if other SCience Fiction fans would recommend favorite books or authors for the Book of the Week.

The book A Game of Thrones is the first book in the A Song of Fire and Ice series by George R.R. Martin. At the center of the story is the Stark family of Winterfell. They are caught up in the intregue and battles for the thrones of the seven kingdoms in a world where summer goes on for years and winter lasts lifetimes. Winter is coming and brings with it the supernatural powers from beyond the Wall that protects the kingdoms.

I have just begun reading this book but enjoy it so much that I recommend it highly. I find I care about the characters and what happens to them and to me that is always a sign of a good book.

Again, I invite you to share your thoughts, if you will.

This week's book of choice is by an author I have enjoyed reading from the time I first discovered science fiction. The stories collected together in I, Robot are still some of my favourites. The two stories I like the best are Robbie, and Little Lost Robot. Which of the tales in I, Robot are your favourites?

What other books by Asimov have you read?

I have read Hyperion and the books that follow it, The Fall of Hyperion, Endymion, and The Rise of Endymion and enjoyed them immensely, but as there is so much to these books that I personally lack the words, I will let the publisher speak for me.

Hyperion

From the Publisher

On the world called Hyperion, beyond the law of the Hegemony of Man, there waits the creature called the Shrike. There are those who worship it. There are those who fear it. And there are those who have vowed to destroy it. In the Valley of the Time Tombs, where huge, brooding structures move backwardthrough time, the Shrike waits for them all. On the eve of Armageddon, with the entire galaxy at war, seven pilgrims set forth on a final voyage to Hyperion seeking the answers to the unsolved riddles of their lives. Each carries a desperate hope--and a terrible secret. And one may hold the fate of humanity in his hands.

The Fall of Hyperion

From the Publisher

In the stunning continuation of the epic adventure begun in Hyperion,Simmons returns us to a far future resplendent with drama and invention. Onthe world of Hyperion, the mysterious Time Tombs are opening. And the secrets they contain mean that nothing--nothing anywhere in the universe--will ever be the same.

Endymion

From the Publisher

The multiple-award-winning science fiction master returns to the universe that is his greatest triumph--the world of Hyperion and The Fall ofHyperion --with a novel even more magnificent than its predecessors.

Now, six years later, Simmons returns to this richly imagined world of technological achievement, excitement, wonder and fear. Endymion is a story about love and memory, triumph and terror--an instant candidate for the field's highest honors.

The Rise of Endymion

From the Publisher

The final chapter of this saga begins with two momentous events: the death and resurrection of Pope Julius XIV and the coming-of-age of the new messiah. Her name is Aenea and she is the only person who can counter the pope and his plan to unleash the Pax Fleet, the Church's military wing, on a final genocidal Crusade to gain total dominion over the universe. The Church is allied with the infamous Al Core, which has offered immortality to humankind - or at least to those faithful who pledge total obedience to the Church - but at what terrible price? The Core has its own dark motives and secrets, and only Aenea knows what they are. Aenea, too, has an ally. Her protector, Raul Endymion, onetime shepherd and convicted murderer, finds her in exile undergoing a strange apprenticeship on Old Earth. Here she has gained access to an information matrix created by the Others - the same mysterious Others who moved Old Earth to save it from the Core. But who are these Others? What has Aenea learned from them? And why has Old Earth been turned into a stage upon which cybrids from the past - from John Keats to Frank Lloyd Wright - repeat historical dramas of human genius for purposes known only to the Others? The answers to these questions must wait. Together with the android A. Bettik, Endymion and his beloved Aenea embark on a final mission to find and comprehend the underlying fabric of the universe.

I would love to hear thoughts and opinions on any and all of these books.

The Star Trek Encyclopedia

Annotation This must-have book for every Star Trek fan includes entries for every character, ship, planet, star, and alien race from every episode of the original Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and the first six Star Trek motion pictures. Illustrated with more than 750 photos, using computer video imaging techniques pioneered for the Star Trek Chronology.

From the Publisher The Star Trek Encyclopedia is the definitive reference book to the minutiae of the first three Star Trek® series. Exhaustive information on the characters, alien races, planets, weapons, medical equipment, etc., of the Trek universe, with technical diagrams and appendices on the timeline of the show's production and the writers of each episode.

While I have not perused this book as yet myself, it is one I would not mind finding under the tree on Christmas morning.

There are many series of Star Trek books out there. As a staunch Trekkie how many have you read? Strangely enough, while I have watched every one of the TV series, I have not yet bought one of the books based in the ST universe. I would like to hear some opinions on whether they are worthwhile reading and which ones are the better ones.

I haven't read too many of the Star Trek books because there have been times when 3 or 4 of the series were on at the same time. But now that the tv showings are winding down I find myself reading more of the books. There is a new Star Trek called the New Frontier. It will only be in books. There are new characters although Captain Jean Luc Picard made an appearance.

Hello Louise! Which of the Star Trek books have you read and which would you recommend as good titles to start reading with?

I'm going to look out for that New Frontier book series.

Which of the Star Trek series did you like the best? I liked Star Trek: The Next Generation, and Deep Space Nine - loved Patrick Stewart in the former and Avery Brooks with his gorgeous voice in the latter.

Does anyone recall a story, long or short, in which the Earth's population was thoroughly mixed up and transplanted around the world. I don't even remember the mechanism that caused this but suddenly people had to learn one anothers languages and mores to get along. I'd like to read it again but don't know where to start looking.

Brian, I read the same story not that long ago, but can't get the title to come up right now. I shall look through my pile of recently read books to see if I can find it.

Brian, I still cannot think of where I read that story or the title. I'm not certain, but it could be that I read it in an Asmimov Magazine.

Rose Daughter
by
Robin McKinley

is this week's book of choice: This is a very lovely book, full of wonder, magic and the beauty of growing things. But I will let the publisher and others speak:

From the Publisher

"It is the heart of this place, and it is dying," says the Beast. And it is true; the center of the Beast's palace, the glittering glasshouse that brings Beauty both comfort and delight in her strange new environment, is filled with leafless brown rosebushes. But deep within this enchanted world, new life, at once subtle and strong, is about to awaken. Twenty years ago Robin McKinley enthralled readers with the power of Beauty. Now this extraordinarily gifted novelist retells the story of Beauty and the Beast again—but in a totally new way, with fresh perspective, ingenuity, and mature insight. In Rose Daughter she has written her finest and most deeply felt work, a compelling, richly imagined, and haunting exploration of the transformative power of love.

From B&N:

From Our Editors

One of the biggest problems for the fantasy-reading world is that Robin McKinley doesn't write enough. The other is that her books are often published as young adult novels in hardcover, so they might be missed. This one shouldn't be missed. It's a return to the fairy tale "Beauty and the Beast," the story that underlay her first published work, Beauty (available in a HarperCollins YA edition), and as such it's a story that offers no genuine surprises. That said, it offers a wonderful, deep sense of magic, a warm affection for characters that's almost unparalleled, and a love of growing things, of gardening, that's probably -- in this genre -- just as unique. Beauty and her sisters, having had their lives destroyed by the tragedy of their father's financial misfortunes, travel to the countryside and there find and make a home for themselves in a lovely cottage where roses once bloomed. Roses are McKinley's symbol for magic here, but they're also her symbol for love -- and they take careful work, thorns and all; she doesn't imply that either love or magic comes easily. Highly recommended. —Michelle West

I heartily agree with that 'highly recommended'! Truth to tell, this is a book I would love to discuss with someone else, slowly, savouring every bit of it.

This weeks book of choice is a trilogy which in the paperback versions comes in the form of six books - two books for each part of the trilogy.

The story begins in:

The Reality Dysfunction: Part 1: Emergence.

The Reality Dysfunction: Part 2: Expansion.

Then continues in the second part:

The Neutronium Alchemist: Part 1: Consolidation.

The Neutronium Alchemist: Part 2: Conflict.

And concludes in:

The Naked God: Part 1: Flight.

The Naked God: Part 2: Faith.

The Fellowship of the Ring

The Two Towers

The Return of the King

Are the three books that make up the story that is The Lord of the Rings, one of the greatest fantasies of all time. If you are a lover of Fantasy and you have not yet read these books, then you are in for an enjoyable time; even if you are not into fantasy you will enjoy the timeless adventure in this tale.

Flash Forward by Robert J. Sawyer is my book recommendation for this week. I quite enjoyed this story in which everyone in the world gets a look at their future.

From the Publisher

Robert J. Sawyer brings us Flashforward, the story of a world-shattering discovery at the CERN research facility in Switzerland. The research team of Lloyd Simcoe and Theo Procopides is using the particle accelerator at CERN, in pursuit of the elusive Higgs Boson, a theoretical subatomic particle. But their experiment goes incredibly awry, and, for a few moments, the consciousness of the entire human race is thrown ahead by about twenty years. While humanity must deal immediately with the destructive aftermath of the experiment - thousands were injured and killed as every single person's body was left unconscious in the here-and-now - the greater implications take longer to surface. People who had no vision of the future seek to learn how they will die, while others seek out future lovers. Lloyd must deal with the guilt of accidentally causing the death of his financee's child, while Theo gets caught up in the search for his own murderer. As the implications truly hit home, the pressure to repeat the experiment builds. Everyone wants a glimpse of the future, a chance to flashforward and see their successes ... or learn how to avoid their failures.

Earth by David Brin is one that is well liked by me - if four readings so far are anything to go by.

Synopsis
In this novel set in "the mid-21st century, as the world is attemptingto reconcile humanity's furious technological progress with its depletion of the planet's vanishing resources, the discovery of a pair of singularities (miniature black holes) deep in the Earth's core abruptly transforms an ongoing struggle for preservation into a desperate battle to prevent the Earth's imminent destruction." (Libr J) from B&N

A good book deserving of more than a single read.

Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card: I enjoyed reading this book which is not a sequel to Ender's Game but more of a story that takes place concurrently. Most of the major characters are children and yet at the same time they are not children at all; they are adults in children's bodies.

I found the superintelligent Bean to be almost beyond the suspension of my disbelief at times. Specially those bits that occur when he is still a baby.

Have you read this story? Any thoughts on it?

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin is at the top of my ten best and most favourite Science Fiction books and second only to The Lord of the Rings in my combined Science Fiction and Fantasy list.

From the Publisher

...In Winter, or Gethen, Ursula K. Le Guin has created a fully realized planet and people. But Gethen society is more than merely a fascinating creation. ...When the human ambassador Genly Ai is sent to Gethen, the planet known as Winter by those outsiders who have experienced its arctic climate, he thinks that his mission will be a standard one of making peace between warring factions. Instead the ambassador finds himself wildly unprepared. For Gethen is inhabited by a society with a rich, ancient culture full of strange beauty and deadly intrigue - a society of people who are both male and female in one, and neither. This lack of fixed gender, and the resulting lack of gender-based discrimination, is the very cornerstone of Gethen life. But Genly is all too human. Unless he can overcome his ingrained prejudices about the significance of "male" and "female," he may destroy both his mission and himself.

Other books by Le Guin that are also excellent:

The Lathe of Heaven

The Dispossessed

Gordon R. Dickson who is best known for his Dorsai series of books, passed away recently. I read it yesterday on the special channel that prints out bits of interesting news but it didn't say when he died. I can't find anything in the online newspapers.

I thought SF fans here might like to know.

Way of The pilgrim by Gordon R. Dickson is my choice for book of the week.

On an Earth conquered and dominated by an alien race, in which humans are no more than cattle; Shane Evert discovers the key that may free mankind.

Here are some more books by Dickson which I have in my collection:
Necromancer
Dorsai
The Dragon and The George
Soldier Ask Not
The Final Encyclopedia
Arcturus Landing
The Far Call
Spacial Delivery
The Pritcher Mass
The Space Swimmers
Home From the Shore
Time Storm
Wolfling

Any thoughts on the books or the author are ever welcome.

This is to annouce the upcoming discussion ~May 1~ of

Rose Daughter by Robin McKinley.

I would love it if you would join me

This week's pick is to me a book that is powerful and disturbing. As usual I will let the publisher speak as to what the book is about -they also spell the protagonist's name better than I do

From the Publisher

A promising young surgeon, Andrej Koscuikso has come, with great reluctance, to study at a military orientation center adrift in black space. Against his will, he will train here to serve as a "Ship's Inquisitor" - a vocation that runs counter to his deepest moral convictions.

During his tenure, Andrej will earn the devotion of his personal slave. He will gain the grudging respect of the Station Administration. He will make a deadly enemy of his fellow student. He will learn a frightening truth about himself. And ultimately, he will be forced to sacrifice all that he holds dear...

Other books in this series are:
Hour of Judgment
Prisoner of Conscience

Two other books by Matthews are:
Colony Fleet
Avalanche Soldier

Gateway by frederic Pohl is the first book in the Heechee Saga. The other books in the Saga are:

Beyond the Blue Event Horizon
Heechee Rendezvous
The Annals of the Heechee

Here is something more on the book from the publisher:

From the Publisher

Gateway opened on all the wealth of the Universe...and on reaches of unimaginable horror. When prospector Bob Broadhead went out to Gateway on the Heechee spacecraft, he decided he would know which was the right mission to make him his fortune. Three missions later, now famous and permanently rich, Robinette Broadhead has to face what happened to him and what he is...in a journey into himself as perilous and even more horrifying than the nightmare trip through the interstellar void that he drove himself to take!

I think this is an excellent read for any SF fan

Dune by Frank Herbert is on my list of books to be read again.

Here is a bit about it from the publisher of the book:

From the Publisher

...It is a tale as vast as Dune itself, a motherlode of mythic invention. It is a saga of messianic adventure, of god/heroes, archevil adversaries and mile-long sandworms; of immortality-imbuing "spice," of soldiers and lovers and wise witch-women with the power to see far beyond history, to feel far beyond emotion. It is the undeniably epic, yet universally affecting, story of the young prince Paul Atreides, scion of a star-crossed dynasty, and of his great journey from boy to warrior to rule to the very godhead of a dying planet destined to become a paradise regained.

Other Dune books:
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune
God Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune
Chapterhouse Dune

And the new one, or there may be more than one, by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson Dune House Harkonnen

These are books all SciFi fans can enjoy

I just happened in here today doing some "housekeeping-type" stuff. NELLIE's last post about Dune caught my eye. Back in the early '70s I spent some time putting at least part of Dune into braille for blind students. I don't know if I did the whole book or not. Too far back to remember.

I am not a big science fiction fan. There was a time I enjoyed Marion Zimmer Bradley and read everything of hers I could get my hands on. I have one of her books on the shelf now and can't get myself to open it.

I guess taste in books shifts like everything else in life.

Marjorie

Marjorie, nice to see you dropping in here! Interesting about you transcribing at least a part of Dune into Braille. I have a number of books by Marion Zimmer Bradley but I don't think that I have everything she has written. Do you have one book of hers that is or was a very favourite one?

I would open that Bradley book you have sitting on the shelf and look inside and see what happens...don't think of it as science fiction which you no longer enjoy, but think of it as a book that you once enjoyed reading and which you kept on the shelf because you considered it good enough to read again in the future.

Now just a general thought on book genres like science fiction or horror or mystery and so on: I like science fiction and other genres as well. But I read a book because it is a good story and not because it belongs to a particular genre. In fact, I wish that bookstores would do the same as they do in the public library where I live and simply put the sci-fi and the other segregated books in among everything else. Any thoughts on this?

Remember that when all is said and done all books are about people.

This week's recommended book is a good adventurous story that I enjoyed reading. As is usual I shall let the publisher of the book tell about it:

From the Publisher
There is a fine line between transformation and ruin....

Twenty-four-year-old Reeve Calder has spent his life on a high-tech space station, watching as terraforming gradually fails on his home planet of Lithia--a failure that has doomed the colonists stranded there to short, brutish lives. Reeve's dream has always been to rebuild Lithia. But when a mysterious explosion destroys the station, forcing Reeve to crash-land on Lithia's blood-hued soil, he soon learns that the reality of saving a dying planet is quite different from what he imagined. For Gabriel Bonhert, former captain of the space station, has set in motion a world cataclysm, using a fatal probe that will travel down the fiery pathway of a deep mantle plume.

Now, to save the homeland he has never known, Reeve is caught in a race against time to reach Bonhert's base in the Rift Valley, a remote volcanic gateway to the hidden heart of Lithia. His staunchest ally may be a feral girl who alone seems enthralled by what Lithia is becoming, and whose enigmatic past holds the key to startling possibilities. As the old Lithia struggles to be reborn in a tide of toxic red flora creeping across the oxygen-starved planet, Reeve forges onward, coming into conflict with savage enclaves of colonists, a doomsday genemorphing cult, and a mysterious alien race with its own intentions for the planet--intentions that may include humanity's slavery or their terrible transformation....

Other books by Kay Kenyon are:

Leap Point
Tropic of Creation
Seeds of Time

I just bought the last named one yesterday (March 19 2001) and it looks like a good one.

NELLIE: I remember liking the Darkover series. But I tried reading one recently and got impatient with the story. It was not one I had read before. I haven't kept any of my science fiction books. I have given them away or originally got them at a library or something.

I also liked a series by another woman author (first initial of last name M I think) about a world on another planet where they use dragons. It is all on the tip of my tongue.

I never thought of putting all the books together in a library it is an interesting idea. A lot of the romance writers are incorporating mystery into their stories now. I can think of a couple whose early stories where "throw away" romances and the current ones are complicated mysteries.

Right at this point I am reading to relax and not have to think much about what I am reading. Just be able to react to it and not worry much about it.

I have part of what I was thinking of. The dragons of Pern are the dragons I was thinking of. I am sure you know the author. Crystal Singer was the name of one of the books I think. I suppose I could look her up that way.

Marjorie, I believe it is Anne McCaffrey you are thinking of. Is Crystal Singer the only book of her's you have read, or did you read some of the Pern series as well?

You said you became impatient with the book when you tried to read one of the new Darkover novels. Do you think that was because science fiction and fantasy ask for an extra effort when it comes to our suspension of our disbelief?

NELLIE: Yes, Anne McCaffrey is the author. I have read most, if not all, of the books about Pern. I don't know why I am impatient with Darkover right now. Your guess is as good as mine. I am just going to "go with the flow" and wait for my tastes to change again.

I'm rereading the Trigon Disunity series - Emprise, Enigma and Empery - by Michael P. kube-McDowell and I find that I like it better the second time around.

I read somewhere that science fiction is the only genre in which the old classic early books are still being read as avidly by fans as the newest offerings. I wonder if science fiction readers also tend to reread their books more than readers of other genres?

I often find that if I have a new book that is part of a series and it has been a long time since I have read the previous books in the series that I will have to reread at least the book that came just before the newest installment or the whole series; which is one reason I don't like to read through a series that goes on and on such as Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

NELLIE: I do that with series books that I read that are romances. I didn't do that when I was reading the Darkover series or the Pern series. That was many years ago. Maybe I have more time to read now that I am retired.

Marjorie, it is nice to have more time to read

This week I recommended Rift by Kay Kenyon as a good book to read and I have been thinking of what the Theme of the book might be. I am not that good at picking up on a book's theme, but I consider the Theme of this book can be summed up in the word 'change'.

Reeve Calder's life changes completely when he escapes in a shuttle from the explosion of the space station where he lived his life so far and crashlands on the planet he has always considered home.

The planet Lithia is changing back into a place where humans cannot survive from the terraforming humans have done to it. To survive on Lithia humans must change into something new and the wild girl Loon may be the sign of what they are to become.

Finally, there are the alien Orthong who might be the authors of the changes going on in the planet and in humans.

But this is also a story about one man, Captain Bonhert, who wants to destroy the planet and a young man's, Reeve Calder, quest across the planet to stop that destruction.

The pick of the week is Halfway Human by Carolyn Ives Gilman. Here are a few tidbits from the backcover of the book to whet your appetite:

"Tedla is young, beautiful, and blond - but it is neither he nor she... There an asexual class of "blands" exists to serve their fellow humans, protected and isolated from contact with the rest of the universe. ...Val is an expert in aliens cultures who has never seen a bland before. ...There are reasons Tedla's world keeps its face hidden - and Val is about to discover them."

This book is about slavery and freedom and racism. It is well written and makes one think when reading it. I like that in a book.

Unfortunately the book is only available through used bookstores when you do a search for the title at B&N. You may also be able to find it at a library.

The Godmother by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough is this week's pick. I found it to be a fun book to read, and one of the things I found myself doing is seeing how many of the fairy tales I recognized in their modernized form...and as usual I will let the publisher say its piece:

From the Publisher

For everyone who's ever wished for a fairy godmother, acclaimed author Elizabeth Ann Scarborough has spun a magical tale that's the next best thing. Like her award-winning novel, Healer's War, which drew on her experiences as a nurse in Vietnam, The Godmother bridges the gap between high fantasy and grim reality. An adult Mary Poppins for the nineties, with a sly touch of whimsy and more than a spoonful of grit, The Godmother delivers what Scarborough fans have come to expect: the unexpected. Rose Samson, a frustrated Seattle social worker, dons a crystal pendant from her friend Linden's vintage clothing shop and makes a wish - for a fairy godmother for "the whole damned city." Enter Felicity Fortune, a silver-haired, funkily dressed fill-in for the suddenly absent Linden, and a card-carrying member of "Godmothers (Anonymous): Fair Fates Facilitated, Questers Accommodated, and Virtue Vindicated. True Love and Serendipity Our Specialty." Felicity's magic net falls far and wide over Seattle, reining in a cast of characters that make up a modern-day volume of the Brothers Grimm. There's Sno, the runaway teenage daughter of a rock superstar, whose aging supermodel stepmom has plans for her "fairest of them all" stepdaughter; seven-year-old Hank and his little sister, Gigi, dumped in a shopping mall by their drug-addict mother; Cindy Ellis, a stable keeper with two abusive stepsisters...and more.

This is the first book in a series of three. The others are: The Godmother's Apprentice and The Godmother's Web

If you read any of the recommended books or have read them, leave a little post to let me know what you think.

NELLIE: Godmother sounds like an interesting book. I may get a copy. If I do, I will let you know what I think about it after I read it.

Thank you Marjorie. I found it a delightful book to read. I think you will enjoy it if you do get it. It is available at B&N. I always check to make sure that they have the recommended book there. Most of the time I do, only last week's offering was not directly available but could still be found through B&N.

This week's book is by an author I very much enjoy reading and I think that Time Enough For Love is one of his best. Here is what the publisher has to say about it:

From the Publisher

The capstone and crowning achievement of Heinlein's famous Future History, Time Enough For Love follows Lazarus Long through a vast and magnificent timescape of centuries and worlds. Heinlein's longest and most ambitious work, it is the story of a man so in love with Life that he refused to stop living it; and so in love with Time that he became his own ancestor.

Nellie, I have never read science fiction. Maybe one book. I think the author's name is ....Zimmer Bradley. I will have to look up the title of the book, but I loved it. It might have been fantasy.

Anyway, your posts make me feel like I am missing out on some delightful reading. Do you suggest these for a beginner reader of science fiction.

Is science fiction different from fantasy?

HATS

Nellie, the name of the book is "Firebird" by Mercedes Lackey. It has been a long time since I read the book that is why I had the wrong author and title. I remember enjoying the book.

HATS

Hi Hats! Marion Zimmer Bradley has written some good books, specially her Darkover series. I'm interested in learning which one of her books you have read.

Any one of the books I recommend each week are good to read for anyone who is interested in Science Fiction. I shall look around for some more titles that could be good for a beginner to the genre. Anne McCaffrey's Pern series is a good one for beginners. So is anything at all by Isaac Asimov.

Piers Anthony's Xanth series is a wonderful and humourous introduction to fantasy.

Yes Science Fiction and Fantasy are two different things. Fantasy contains the aspects of fairy tales, the things you find in fairy tales. Science Fiction is about the creation of worlds - alien or our own in some future time- based on the latest knowledge in the sciences. I think that both genres are ultimately about people and it is the characters in any science fiction or fantasy book that make it a good read.

Why not join me for the Fahrenheit 451 which is classic science fiction in June (I think) and for Rose Daughter which is a nice example of fantasy in July?

Thank you for visiting!

LOL we were posting at the same time. I can't recall reading that one by Lackey. If I did it was borrowed from the library since I know it is not in my collection. I'm going to look out for it.

HATS: I found the Pern series by Anne McCaffrey and the Darkover series by Marion Zimmer Bradley to be good reading. I do not often read science fiction. I read almost all of those two series however.

Anything written by Sheri S. Tepper is sure to be good. I especially like Raising The Stones.

Hi Marjorie!

I found an interesting book on sale for less than half price called The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Science Fiction. I have glanced through it but haven't gotten into it at any depth. The pictures are very interesting.

NELLIE: That sounds like an interesting book. Does it list different authors and the worlds they have created?

Marjorie, it lists some of the more well known authors and the books they have written. It begins with the history of Science Fiction and how it changed in focus according to the time period it was written in. The book also goes into movies and television shows.

Just finished Timeline... good book !

NELLIE: I guess Buck Rogers is considered Science Fiction. I remember him from when I was growing up. Pretty tame stuff now and much of what he did has happened.

FrancyLou, I thought that Timeline was good too. I read it not that long ago. I kept wondering if they were all going to be stuck in the past. I believe that one of the team members did stay behind by choice, but can't recall his name right off.

I was reading an interesting bit on Time Travel stories in the SF Encyclopedia that said that most time travel stories in SF are about time travel into the past, and that H.G. Wells The Time Machine is a one of a kind story that has never been repeated.

Marjorie, yes Buck Rogers is early Science Fiction. I enjoy reading some of the ealier stories to see how much of what the writers thought would exist in the future really does exist now and to see how dated some of the ideas are.

I call Eon by Greg Bear science fiction at it most imaginative and adventurous. As usual I will let the publisher speak about the book -mainly because I am too lazy to run downstairs to get the book right now, and because I am not sure I could find it, though I know where it should be. But books have gotten moved around since my younger brother is replacing water pipes in the basement.

From the Publisher

Perhaps it wasn't from our time, perhaps it wasn't even from our universe, but perhaps the arrival of the 300 km long stone was the answer to humanity's desperate plea to end the threat of nuclear war.

Inside the deep recesses of the stone lies Thistledown: the remnants of a human society, versed in English, Russian and Chinese. The artifacts of this familiar people foretell a great Death caused by the ravages of war, but the government and scientists are unable to decide how to use this knowledge.

Deeper still within the stone is the Way. For some the Way means salvation from death, for others it is a parallel world where loved ones live again. But, unlike Thistledown, the Way is not entirely dead, and the inhabitants hold the knowledge of a present war, over a million miles away, using weapons far more deadly than any that mankind has ever conceived.

This week's book is one of Larry Niven's most well known ones and possibly one of his best: Ringworld

I'll let the publisher speak both from the B&N Web site and from the 1977 copy of the paperback I own:

From the Publisher

A new place is being built, a world of huge dimensions, encompassing millions of miles, stronger than any planet before it. There is gravity, and with high walls and its proximity to the sun, a livable new planet that is three million times the area of the Earth can be formed. We can start again!

From the Book:

Four travelers--

Louis Wu -human and old, old; bored with having lived too fully for far too many years. Seeking a challenge, and all too capable of handling it.

Nessus -a trembling coward, a puppeteer with a built-in survival pattern of non-violence. Except that this particular puppeteer is insane.

Teela Brown -human; a wide-eyed youngster with no allegiances, no experiences, no abilities. And all the luck in the world.

Speaker-to-Animals -Kzin; large, red-furred and carnivorous. And one of the most savage life-forms known in the galaxy.

Why did these disparate individuals come together? How could they possibly function together?

And where, in the name of anything sane, were they headed?

Other books in the Ringworld series are:
The Ringworld Engineers
The Ringworld Throne

Other books by Niven I like are:
Destiny's Road
A World Out Of Time
The Mote in God's Eye -with Jerry Pournelle
The Gripping Hand -with Pournelle

While I have just begun reading this week's book, I thought it good enough to feature it. Here is what it says on the back cover of Brain Plague

"Brain Plague is the story of Chrysoberyl and her awesome psychological and moral struggle to adjust to an ambitious colony of microbes living permanently in her own body and sharing her consciousness. The colonists can talk to her and she to them, producing an uncanny and powerful internal drama that counterpoints the external action." (From the Publisher)

Other books by Slonczewski are:
The Children Star
A Door into Ocean
Daughter of Elysium
The Wall Around Eden

Sad to hear of the untimely death of Douglas Adams. He took sci-fi into a whole new dimension. Before he came along it seemed as if (s-f) was taking itself too seriously. I am new, here. Do you talk about Connie Willis, Sara Zettel and S. L. Viehl? It seems that I like to read women authors these days.

There is only one more episode of Star Trek's Voyager. It is a very sad thought be we can be comforted by the tons of fans who continue to put the characters into books. I don't know how many there are but it could make quite a large library.

Welcome to the Science Fiction discussion. I was saddened by the fact that Douglas Adams died at a relatively young age. I don't think I ever had a chance to read his books, or at least I can't recall if I did. I shall have to rectify that oversight

We have talked about Connie Willis but I have not heard of the other two writers. I am a Sheri S. Tepper fan and have books by Joan D. Vinge, Vonda N. McIntyre, C.J. Cherryh, Ursula Le Guin, Susan Matthews, Anne McCaffrey, and Elizabeth Scarborough and a few more I can't come up with right now.

Do you have a favourite book by Connie Willis?

Hi Louise! Every science fiction show on TV seems to be ending. Voyager, as you say, will soon be over. Roswell is on its last shows. First Wave ended a while ago; I did like the way a complete story was told and that the ending fit the story rather than just being stuck on because the show had to end. It was planned. X-Files is at the end of what I think is its final season.

Not only are there many books based on the Trek universe, but there are Babylon 5 books, and X-Files books, Doctor Who books, Earth:Final Conflict books...almost every TV series seems to have a series of books connected with it.

I'm still in the process of reading Eater by Gregory Benford -which is probably a good thing since that way I cannot reveal the ending, even if it would be by accident. I'm finding this book to be a 'I have to know what happens next' type of page turner. Here is a part of what it says about the book on the back cover:

"...For Benjamin and Channing have discovered "Eater," an eons-old black hole anomaly that devours stars and worlds. Yet its most awesome and devastating secrets are still to be revealed...and feared.

Eater is intelligent. And eager to communicate.
Eater is curious...and hungry.
Eater is rapidly heading our way..."

If you read this book let me know and I hope you will enjoy it as much as I am

Nellie: My favorite Willis book is ALL of them. However, Doomsday Book and To Say Nothing of the Dog are tied for first place. Zettel I discovered by reading about her in the Barnes & Noble sci-fi flyer. I pick this up each month, as well as the mystery one, because I find new authors and new releases by old favorites. Her latest, can't remember the title, is about the conflict between the colony on Venus with an earth which has had to severely limit colonial powers after Mars tried unsuccessfully to become independent. There are two parallel stories. My human-centric thinking puts that one first, but equally compelling is the coming tragedy of a sentient race which is looking for another home. Their race's salvation appears to be, suprise, Venus. Sounds like a typical shoot-em-up, doesn't it? Ah, but what twists a talented WOMAN can bring to such a tired plot. Each new Willis and Zettel book is a delight I look forward to eagerly!

Hello again Mrs. Watson!

I have but a few Connie Willis books but do have The Dooms Day Book, To Say Nothing of the Dog, Bellwether and Firewatch. Which other books of her's would you recommend? She has a new one out -Passage- that sounds really good. I may be tempted to get it.

Is the Sarah Zettel book called The Quiet Invasion? I just looked her up on B&N and the description of that one fits what you just said about what you are reading. All her books sound quite good.

I wonder if anyone ever put together an online list of female SF authors?

Nellie: What a great idea! For so long SF was a guy thing, but my memory/feeling of the great men writers, Azimov, Clarke, Bradbury, etc,. is of ideas. With women such as Tepper, Jo Clayton,Tiptree, etc., it is less the central idea of their milieu, but the feelings aroused that last with me. Azimov's Nightfall is pure feeling, to me. Some of Bradbury's MartianChronicles, also. But RIngworld, it is the idea, the structure he creates, that stays with me. Willis wrote a short story about a future where women menstruate only by choice. One young woman shocks her family and her friends when she announces that she will choose to experience this womanly "rite:. It is hilarious! I think it is called, Even the Queen.

Mrs. Watson, do you think that over all female SF writers tend to appeal more to our feelings and emotions in what they write? Do male SF writers tend to deal more with ideas?

I like what it says in my Illustrated Encyclopedia of Science Fiction: that SF is the art of creating worlds that are logically consistent. That is the world -whether it is an alien planet or a future Earth- the author creates must be believable and give one the sense that such a world could truly exist. I like this description of SF because it takes us more into the heart of what it is and away from what it has never been, and that is a predicter of the future. To me Science Fiction is not prophecy, it merely reveals to us many worlds of possiblity.

I don't read a science fiction story with the idea in mind that some day things might or will be as they are in the story; I read a science fiction story because I am fascinated and caught up in the 'world' created by the author and by the people who inhabit that world.

Shall we start on that list? I haven't really searched on the Web as yet since I'm not sure what search terms to use. Anyways, I might add this list to my Web site and I think that it should not only be the author's name but also a bibliography of the books she has written. LOL this may become a major project!

It is nice talking with you

And I extend an open invitation to all who may be reading along to come and join us. Feel free to ask questions or to add comments about books you have read. While I haven't read everything in SF nor have the time to read everything -who does?- I do like to hear about authors and books I have not heard of before so that I can check them out.

Nellie: No one else seems to be here. Is this typical? Maybe they are not interested in this topic? Oh, well, this is what we have so may as well get on with it. You have not asked me the question, but you have made me think it--why do I say that women writers are "Venus" and men writers are "Mars", to coin a phrase. I will have to research this, analyze my assertion, and come up with some quantifiable results, won't I? Sounds like fun. How shall we compile our list? Alphabetical? Author's name, bibliography, evaluation "Venus" or "Mars"? That could spark some interesting discussions. Also, SF covers a wide area (Pardon the pun) these days; some parameters may be in order. If we limit ourselves to recent, we will leave out people like Tiptree, Yarboro, Jo Clayton (Has she written much besides the Diadem series?). And we need to define our terms--ideas? emotions? This could turn into a Frankenstein's Monster (Whoops, almost forgot Mary Shelley!). Help me, Nellie!

I am here.... just not talking much. I can not remember Authors names, much less the titles of the books... so it makes it very hard for me to add a comment. But I am paying close attention to you both and am going to try to add to the discussion.

Hello Mrs.Watson! Most of the time I am the only one here. I think there are lurkers but not many folks seem to read science fiction or if they do are not very inclined to talk about it.

I've been looking up female SF authors on the Web and writing down their bibliographies. I think I have been getting mainly the newer ones. It is interesting to see how many there are and how many I have never read. I think alphabetical is the way to go. As for rating the books, since not all are still in publication and not everything is in the library either, that might not be easy. I am also collecting the urls of websites of those authors who have one.

I definitely want to have the older authors like Tiptree, Bradley, Henderson, Le Guin etc in the list. It would be interesting to see if the older female authors tended to write more like the male authors because they were breaking into a male dominated field?

Now I'm sure that we both have books by the older female authors, so why don't we start with those?

According to her bibliography Jo Clayton wrote some 34 novels including the Diadem ones and a goodly number of short stories as well. But so far the author on my list who is the most prolific is Anne McCaffrey -although she does write a lot of books with other authors.

One thing I want to look at is, if female authors tend to have strong female protagonists more than male protagonists.

FrancyLou, you are always welcome to join in and if you only feel like lurking, that is fine too.

FrancyLou: You're like me, I can't remember the suthors or titles. Usually, the story rings a few bells, though. So, why don't we synopsize the major works, award winners, etc? Those I haven't read will entice me.

Mrs. Watson, major works by women authors only, or those by both genders?

LOL I'm terrible at writing synopses; I always end up with a book of a book.

Shall we each pick a favourite author whose books we have read and provide a synopsis of each one?

Nellie: I meant a synopsis of ONE. Ursula K Le Guin's Left Hand of Darkness: "Takes place on a planet which is much less temperate than the Earth. The sentient species has a unique method of reproduction. The political climate is extremely diverse." Doesn't that make you drool in anticipation? (lol) Maybe our favorite book(s)? Certainly not all of them. I wouldn't know where to start with Tepper, although that book about the horses, that still lingers strongly. Those mental images, i guess.

smile*

Mrs. Watson, I'm not sure that synopsis would even get me to read the book...

I can't recall any book by Tepper with horses. There were two I read by Cherryh with the night horses that had psi powers and weren't really horses at all, but intelligent aliens. I think the books were: The Rider at the Gate, and Cloud's Rider.

Now to think of which author and which book to begin with. My problem is too much choice and indecisiveness. I suppose that we won't quibble about whether the book we provide a synopsis of is available at B&N? I just thought of a good one that I recently reread for the third time, which may not be in print any more.

Didn't Tepper write something about a planet called Grass? If she did, it had horses in it, but they weren't really horses, or something. I'll have to look it up. Nellie, "start at the beginning and go all the way to the end" is good advice I've been told. go for it! You won't hold that "Darkness" travesty against me, will you?

Mrs. Watson, I won't hold that example against you

Sheri S. Tepper did write Grass which did have creatures in it that called themselves 'horses' but as I recall were anything but horselike. I guess that is why I didn't make the connection.

Now I'm going to give this book synopsis thing a try.

A Gift Upon the Shore by M.K Wren

The setting of this story is the Pacific Northwest at a time when nuclear war has devastated the world. The survivors have to contend with the icy cold of a nuclear winter, earthquakes, tidal waves, bands of violent looters, and a horrifying plague.

Two of the survivors are Mary and Rachel whose stories we follow in the book. Mary is determined that some pieces of our culture will survive, and sets out to collect and save every book she possibly can with the help of Rachel.

For many years Mary and Rachel believe themselves to be the only survivors in the area, and maybe even the world, until one day Mary finds a man named Luke on the shore near their farm...Luke who is a member of a fundamentalist religious group called The Flock; a group that believes books are evil and must be destroyed.

What do you think?

Now I need to find a new book of the week LOL!

I decided on one of my favourite books by my favourite author as my pick of the week:

The Family Tree by Sheri S. Tepper

This is a most enjoyable book to read and as usual I shall let the publisher tell you what the book is about...

From the Publisher

As a police officer, Dora must investigate the bizarre, seemingly unrelated murders of three geneticists. In the course of her inquiry, however, it becomes clear that the scientists were killed by the same person, for reasons that are frustratingly obscure. Meanwhile, strange things are happening everywhere Dora turns: weeds are becoming trees, trees becoming forests, a city is transformed almost overnight into a wild and verdant place inhospitable to what humankind has become. Within days, Dora's hometown has come to a veritable standstill as the thoroughfares are choked by foliage, and its citizens are forced to employ bygone means of transport and communication - walking and talking. But stranger still, Dora discovers that she herself can somehow communicate with the rampaging flora - and is, therefore, perhaps the only person presently living who holds the key to averting an unthinkable catastrophe to human life. As Dora tracks the elusive murderer, the mystery of the trees begins to unravel as well. For the two seemingly disparate events are intertwined, much like the branches of an oak. And, as Dora gets closer to the truth, she comes to realize that the answer she seeks today may lie in the future - a future which is much closer than anyone dares think.

Nellie, the Family Tree sounds really good !!!

FrancyLou: It is good. Tepper is right at the top of my list of authors. Can't decide which book to start with.

FrancyLou, Family Tree is an excellent book. I love the suprise in it! I won't say what it is, but when you read the book I am sure you will know what I am talking about

Mrs. Watson, I went eeny meeny miny mo with all my Tepper books to pick the Book of the Week. It was the only way I could make a choice!

Tepper has a new one out called Fresco and it is supposedly her best ever. I can't wait for the paperback version. I am being tempted by the hardcover though.

I am also being sorely tempted by Connie Willis' newest book 'Passage'. It sounds so very good.

I loved Doomsday Book so fiercely that I lent it to a friend. She is having trouble with it, because the story has more than one thread. She'll probably give up. Oh,well. Willis has a new one coming out? Hooray! I, too, have to wait for the paperbacks. As it is, I spend way too much on books. But when I use the library, I forget to take them back. The fines are huge, and I might as well buy the book. Then I wind up with stacks of books everywhere, can't remember where a certain book is...

There are places you can buy used books. Even on the Internet. I can try to find some more if you wish. I am not allowed to buy over the internet, so don't know if this is a good deal or not.
http://www.exbook.com/

FRANCYLOU: I will check out the site you recommended in a few minutes. I get lots of used books at http://www.half.com . I have also gotten books at auction on http://www.ebay.com . Sometimes the auction is fun. Sometimes I am too impatient to wait for the auction.

Marj, that is a good one - Half.com. I have a couple of friends who get things from e-bay, and have very good luck.

FrancyLou and Marjorie, I bookmarked the links for later perusal of the sites. Both look interesting

Thanks much.

Mrs. Watson, when I got books from the library, I didn't forget to return them in time. But I always hated to give the good ones up. I wanted to keep them for myself! So like you, I prefer to buy rather than borrow.

The Doomsday Book being hard to read because it has more than one thread: I'm thinking of some of the SF novels I have read and most SF books seem to have more than one thread. I wonder if that is more common in SF than in other genres of literature?

Nellie: That is a thought. That suggests that somehow SF readers are "serious" opposed to "Light" readers. It does take dedication to get into some of the meatier SF books. It is well worth it. Still pondering. I'll try to make up my mind this weekend. Had a big rush project at work, and my brain is tired.

NELLIE: I have found many books that seem to me to have more than one thread and are not science fiction. Most of Jayne Ann Krentz' books are romances with a heavy mystery component that involves many characters before they come together at the end. I don't know if that is what you mean by "thread."

I just started reading Godmother by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough and found myself having trouble following the story. It seemed like "stream of consciousness" rather than following anything to the end. I seemed to get a piece of something and then a piece of something else with no connection between them at all. The pieces were not enough for me to really understand the first thing before I was over to the next. I don't know how else to describe it.

Marjorie, you are right, other genres like Romance, Mystery, can have more than one thread. I think that Blind Assissin has many different threads from what I gather by reading what others say about it.

To me threads in a story is following different characters or groups of character through the same story. The charcters may or may not meet at some point in the story. For example I am just starting a book called The Bridge by Janine Ellen Young -a new SF author-and so far there are four story lines or threads involving characters living in different places. The story is roughly about an alien virus that causes what is called The Pandemic and each thread tells how the pandemic affects the different characters in the places where they live.

Now I will have to skim through The Godmother again because I didn't perceive it to be stream of consciousness at all. I'm getting some thoughts here but I can't get them clear enough to express as yet. But let me sort of 'think out loud' and see where I get.

Judging from the number of people active in this particular discussion, and the totally inactive SF discussion at Third Age; as well as very little or no activity in other forum places I have visited over time; judging from that Science Fiction and Fantasy are not very popular genres. I thought this was mainly because of the subject matter. But maybe it is both because of the subject matter and the way it is presented? I don't know. Perhaps SF is something that one must learn to read. At the least one needs to suspend one's disbelief -as Tolkien said in one of his essays (I believe it was Leaf by Niggle)-and allow whatever is in the story being read to be true, for as long as one is in the story.

When reading a science fiction story of any length, one cannot say 'this doesn't really exist' or 'this could never happen' or 'I don't believe such things could ever exist' because at that point has lost the ability to be 'in' the story and the story will no longer make any sense.

Now to a certain extent all types of books, except perhaps non-fiction ones, need a suspension of disbelief but I think both Science Fiction and Fantasy need a greater amount of this mental activity than books from other genres. Horror is maybe the only genre that comes close to SF and Fantasy in its requirement for suspending disbelief.

Another thing. I am one who likes to picture in my mind the characters and the scenes I am presented with in a story; and I'm sure that most other readers are the same. When reading SF one has to picture things that in reality exist only in the mind of the author of the story and within the story as descriptions of places and things. This can add still another level of difficulty.

Does any of this make sense?

Mrs. Watson, can you help explain this threads thing? Have a cup of tea and a nice rest first though.

More thoughts on this tomorrow...

NELLIE: I think you did a fine job explaining about threads in a story. I like to picture the story also when I am reading. I am sure that what I am picturing and what the author wrote about don't match. Even reading romances, I never think of the characters as young as the author says they are. I sometimes look at the cover picture and realize that the picture represents the author's intent pretty well. However, I have an altogether different image in my head of what the people in the story looks like. I certainly is not as difficult as imagining things that are in SciFi or Fantasy, however.

Nellie & Marjorie: The suspension of disbelief is the first factor, but I am wondering abour something suggested by your comments Nellie. I have a very visual mind--I think in images. Maybe it is easier for me to be "in" the story because of that. Someone who lacks that quality may not be able to immerse oneself into the author's creation. Marjorie: The covers of books, from what I've read, more likely are part of the publicity rather than the author's images. Many times, after reading a mystery, I find gross mistakes on the cover. For instance, there is a black and white cat, but the cover shows a tabby, etc. Nellie: your description of threads is right on. Doomsday has a very complex milieu, and links between the threads are subtle. However, caring about the characters sucks me right in. Perhaps my friend has not made that emotional attachment and the threads are impedments rather than richness of detail.

MRS. WATSON: You are certainly right that covers are more for publicity than to reflect the actual story. The covers I like best leave the most to my imagination. I prefer covers with symbols on them rather than people.

Marjorie, Mrs. Watson, I think in images as well. Maybe all avid readers do? I've had times when I wanted to show someone with me the pictures in the book I was reading, only to realize there were no pictures there.

I like it when the characters in a story are described with just enough detail to make them individuals and I can image the rest. Marjorie, do you imagine the characters in a book you read as being more your own age?

You know what is really odd? Reading a book where you know the area it takes place in very well. I just finished two mysteries written by a local author set at the university I attented and a part of my city I am very familiar with. I find every time there is a mention of a familiar place I'm off on a tangent thinking about it or wanting to go to it.

Bookcovers are there to lure you into reading the book and may have nothing or little to do with what is actually written in the book. The cover may present the essence of the story but does not illustrate it.

I wonder if there are sometimes too many different main characters in one science fiction story? Or is that something that happens in other genres too?

Nellie: What are those mysteries? I love books about my part of the world: San Francisco, Carmel, Silicon Valley, etc. But I've read books that make me want to go to that place. Charles De Lint is good at creating an atmosphere. L. R. Wright wrote mysteries about a part of B.C. called The Sunshine Coast. Alaska is the setting for some great books. Kate Wilhelm's books about a woman lawyer in Oregon, I can feel the fog, smell the ocean, feel the crackling fire, almosst taste the food in her favorite hang out, etc. I feel the pull of those places. I'll have to think of what sf locales I've wanted to visit...

NELLIE: I suspect I think of the characters in the books as the age I feel I am. I know they are not retirement age. I don't feel like I am in my 20s -- which is the age of the characters in many of the books I read. I do like books where the women are presented as being in their 40s or 50s.

MRS. WATSON: It sounds like I might enjoy Kate Wilhelm's books. I will look for one.

Marjorie: May I recommend one I recently re-read and found delightful? "Welcome Chaos" is not the lawyer, but it is about a woman who comes to a choosing place in her life and finds herself a part of other people's agendas while she is trying to follow her own path. It made me feel and smell the Oregon coast, taste the delicious seafood, cuddle up to the fire. It is part mystery, part something else.

MRS. WATSON: Thanks for the suggestion. I am making a list of everyone's suggestions.

Hi Mrs. Watson! Hi Marjorie!

An SF place one would like to visit? One place I would like to visit is the virtual world found in Tad Williams' Otherland series. Also Bradley's Darkover and of course Pern.

The two mysteries are The Next Margaret by Janice MacDonald Mant and Sticks and Stones by Janice MacDonald -same person, only with the first book she was using her married name. I went to the local launch of Sticks and Stones. Janice and I live about a mile or so away from each other and know each other from that Brainstorms place online. Unfortunately the books are only available locally.

I know I have a couple of Wilhelms in my collection: one is Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang and the other I can't think of the name of.

Looked up Wilhelm at B&N and found the second book: The Clewiston Test.

This week's book is not Science Fiction but it is about Science Fiction. I recommend it to anyone who loves SF and to anyone who is interested in learning what SF is all about.

Here is what the folks at B&N have to say about it.

From Our Editors

This stunning visual adventure through the history of the science fiction genre covers it like never before. Illustrated with color images from books, films, magazines, comics, and graphic novels, this book presents a decade-by-decade study of influences, authors, artists, ideas, more. Full of rare book-cover classics, movie stills, archival photos, period graphics, timelines, and biographies. A Hugo Award winner.

Read toward the bottom... I had to read this a couple of times. Francy

http://www.conelrad.com/

In 1951, President Truman established the CONELRAD [CONtrol of ELectronic RADiation] broadcast system in case of an atomic emergency. These days, CONELRAD is something completely different -- a site "devoted to ATOMIC CULTURE past and present but without all the distracting and pedantic polemics." This fascinating look at a sobering subject includes dozens of Real Audio clips with advice on what to do when bombs fall; the CONELRAD 100, a list for the atomic-film connoisseurs that features titles like "Atom Age Vampire" and "Day the Earth Stood Still"; and Atomic Platters, a sampling of music that celebrates, satirizes, or laments the atomic age. It's an eerie and electrifying slice of postwar atomic culture.

Hi! I am the poster formerlyknow as Mrs. Watson. SeniorNet took umbrage at my use of the title "Mrs." since I am not now married, so i coundln't log in. Call me Mary. Here is the best critique of Connie Willis' new book, Passage: From Library Journal When psychologist Joanna Lander agrees to join Dr. Richard Wright's experimental study of near-death experiences, she embarks on a mental and spiritual journey to an unknown but eerily familiar "place" the borderland between life and death. With each successive session, Joanna's sense of fear and uncertainty grows, sparking a sudden insight into the nature of human consciousness as it approaches the end of life. The author of The Doomsday Book and To Say Nothing of the Dog continues to expand her storytelling repertoire, achieving new dimensions in subtlety and irony while simultaneously constructing an unforgettable tale of courage and self-sacrifice. Highly recommended.

Dear SeniorNet: The above posting was meant as a joke. I never meant for anyone to think SeniorNet would be so petty, but I neglected to indicate thati was trying to be facetious. Please forgive me.

Hahaha! Nice to meet you under your new guise, Mary Watson! That new Willis book sounds good. But we paperback buyers won't see it until next year, I'm sure of that.

FrancyLou, that is an interesting site. I'm going out so bookmarked it to look more at later on.

SeniorNet fixed my password glitch, so I'm back under my original nom de plume. Sanity, too, has returned. I'll wait for the PB of Passage. Besides, I'm buying the new John Adams bio this month. As far as visiting an SF world, does anyone remember another creation that was a wheel shaped "planet"? Not Larry Niven's Ringworld. This was empty of life, I believe. Eons ago I read it. That one sounded intriguing - not so much the site itself, but the exploration. No menace, as I recall, just the wonder of it. The Riverworld sounded exotic, too, but dangerous.

SeniorNet fised up my password glitch, so I'm back under my original nom de plume. Sanity, too, has returned. I'll wait for the PB of Passage. Besides, I'm buying the new John Adams bio this month. As far as visiting an SF world, does anyone remember another creation that was a wheel shaped "planet"? Not Larry Niven's Ringworld. This was empty of life, I believe. Eons ago I read it. That one sounded intriguing - not so much the site itself, but the exploration. No menace, as I recall, just the wonder of it. The Riverworld sounded exotic, too, but dangerous.

Mrs. Watson, I know there was a Diskworld but that had people living on it -was it L.Sprague De Camp who created that world? I can't recall a world similar to Niven's Ringworld without any life on it. I wouldn't mind paying a visit to Ringworld. Another place that would be fascinating to visit is Silverberg's giant planet Majipoor.

I should get back to working on my list of female authors before I get distracted into making a list of alien planets as envisioned in SF.

There is a fantasy series about Gatten, "cats" which are about 40 lbs, and shaped accordingly. Impression (a la Pern Dragons) allows them to form a bond with a human. They have truth -seeking powers and some other neat things. I wouldn't mind living there. Picked up Fahrenheit 451 for $2! 1976 edition.

Mrs. Watson, I've heard of the Gatten fantasy series but have never had the chance to read any of the books. Can you give me a title of one and the author?

Just for the fun of it, here is a partial list of female SF authors, most of whom I have books by in my collection: Marion Zimmer Bradley, Sheri S. Tepper, Alison Sinclair, Elizabeth Ann Scarborough, Julian May, Connie Willis, R.M. Melluch, Kate Wilhelm, Kay Kenyon, Vonda N. McIntyre, Vera Chapman, Zenna Henderson, Elizabeth Hand, Patricia C. Wrede, Mary Gentle, Elizabeth Boyer, M. K. Wren, Roby James, Paula Volsky, Andre Norton, Suzette Haydn Elgin, Tara K. Harper, Tanith Lee, Pamela Sargent, Joan D. Vinge, Carolyn Ives Gilman, Joan Slonczewski, Patricia Anthony, C.S. Friedman, Robin Hobb, Janine Ellen Young, James Tiptree Jr., Nancy Kress, Lois McMaster Bujold, Octavia E. Butler, C.J. Cherryh, Ursula Le Guin, Anne McCaffrey, Robin McKinley, Elisabeth Vonarburg, Laura M. Mixon, Thea Von Harbou, Mercedes Lackey, Pat Cadigan, and Catherine Asaro.

That is about half of what I have so far. There are more female SF authors that I expected there to be. Anyone else surprised?

Nellie: An impressive list. Some of them I recognize, others are new to me. You have been busy! I, however, have hit a slump, or "block". A temporary drought in my flow of creative juices. Still reading, though. Picked up a copy of Kate Wilhelm's Crazy Time--funny, sort of a combination of a romance, sf, mystery. Dripping with atmosphere, Seattle this time (if you know Seattle, you will realize that I have punned - forgive me).

Mrs. Watson, LOL dripping with athmosphere...I like that. Seattle is sort of famous for its rain, isn't it? Oddly enough the few times I have been there it was always sunny.

Here is a question for you: who was the first female SF author?

*******************

Now the recommendation of the week: Factoring Humanity by Robert J. Sawyer.

I'm still in the process of reading this, but I like the way he tells the story of a real world family with real world problems within the greater things that are going on.

Here is what the publisher says:

From the Publisher

In 2007, a signal is detected coming from the Alpha Centauri system. Mysterious, unintelligible data streams in for ten years. Heather Davis, a professor in the University of Toronto psychology department, has devoted her career to deciphering the message. Her estranged husband, Kyle, is working on the development of artificial intelligence systems and new computer technology utilizing quantum effects to produce a near-infinite number of calculations simultaneously. When Heather achieves a breakthrough, the message reveals a startling new technology that rips the barriers of space and time, holding the promise of a new stage of human evolution. In concert with Kyle's discoveries of the nature of consciousness, the key to limitless exploration - or the end of the human race - appears close at hand.

I find it good reading so far.

Mrs. Watson...Yes! I'll have to check if she is considered to be the first science fiction writer period.

MRS. WATSON: In an earlier post you mentioned liking Kate Wilhelm's books about an Oregon detective. I just finished reading No Defense and I definitely agree. I haven't read a mystery (that wasn't also a romance) in a long, long time. I just ordered two more of her books about Barbara Holloway. Usually I am reading at least two books at the same time (one in bed). With this book I just kept picking it up until I finished it. Thank you for mentioning her.

Marjorie: So glad you liked the book. Wilhelm is one author that stays on my list. You may also like her SF. All: I have the name of the first book and author of the series about the large cats, called ghatti. It is The Ghatti's Tale, by Gayle Greeno. I'll quote the blurb: Their technological resources destroyed, a colonizing expedition from Earth has been stranded on the world of Methuen for over two hundred years. Their continued survival is largely due to the organization of healers know as the Eumedeicos and to the Seekers Veritas, a unique group composed of pairs of bondmates, one human and one ghatti - a telepathic catlike being native to Methuen who bonds with a specific human for life. These Bondmates travel from town to town, settling disputes by truth - reading the minds and emotions of plaintiffs and defendants. While most people respect the Seekers,there are those who fear the ghatti's powers. And now someone has begun attacking the Seeker pairs.

Thanks for the information about the first book of the Ghatti series and the name of the author. I'm going to look out for it at the library and maybe with luck I'll even find a copy to buy somewhere.

Kate Wilhelm's Nomads (1986) is one heck of a read. Very scary--almost horror genre.

Mrs. Watson, Nomads sounds familiar and good. I do like spooky books.

The Alien Years by Robert Silverberg is this week's recommended book. Here is a bit of what it says on the back cover:

"Fifteen feet tall, the Entities land in cities across Earth. Ignoring humankind, they wall themselves up in impenitrable enclaves, enslaving a few willing collaborators with their telepathic PUSH. Then they plunge humans into a new Dark Age without electricity, allowing us to live-but no longer as a dominant species..."

Book is published by HarperPrism.

Another good book is The Seeds of Time by Kay Kenyon. The Earth is dying and space/time ships dive into the far past to alien planets to find plants so the Earth can be regreened.

Nellie: I like the sound of those two. Will look for them. Nomads begins as a "street person" is brought to an LA hospital trauma center, spouting nonsense words and bleeding from multiple lacerations. After his death, he is identified as a distinguished French anthropologist who is lecturing at UCLA. In his death throes, he has accidently bitten the ear of the trauma physician. When she begins to have "blackouts" and seems to be dreaming the frenchman's last days, the plot thickens with a vengeance. How was he wounded? Why? Her physical and mental responses (the blackouts) seem to put her life in jeopardy and her medical colleagues attempt to reverse the downward spiral. Meanwhile, the anthropologist's home is being stalked by a mysterious black surfer's van. Are they the ones who are spraying graffiti on the walls of the house?

Mrs. Watson, Nomads sounds good. Doesn't sound like the one I read though. I shall see if I can find it for reading.

Attention: I have had a Rolling Blackout! (That's what we call Senior Moments here in the West.) Nomads was not written by Kate Wilhelm, but Chelsea Quinn Yarbro. Sorrrrrryyyyy.

Mrs. Watson, I think I have the Yarbro one of Nomads. LOL I just thought there were two books with the same title.

Have you read any of Yarbro's Saint Germain series of books?

Yarbro is one of my favorites, I'm always looking for her name; I don't recall those, however. Tell me, what have I been missing?

Mrs. Watson, here are the titles of the books in the series:

Hotel Transylvania
Blood Games
The Path of the Eclipse
The Palace
A Flame in Byzantium
Crusader's Torch

Saint Germain or Sanct Germane is a vampire: the only one of his kind. He is one of the more romantic characters in stories of this type imo. Begin with Hotel Transylvania because that is the first book in the series. I'll have to check which one comes next as I don't think that I had them put in order on the shelf.

I have been busy bring books from the garage to the house.

Thank you, Nellie. I have books stacked everywhere, in boxes, on shelves, etc. I'm addicted to reading.

LOL, so am I, so am I -addicted to reading!

Now to think of a book I can feature...there are a number of possibilities and I have trouble making up my mind.

This week's recommendation is a story in three parts but each of the parts takes up two sizable paperback books. The three parts that make up the trilogy are: The Reality Dysfunction, The Neutronium Alchemist, and The Naked God

The paperbacks that make up the whole of the trilogy are:

The Reality Dysfunction: Emergence
The Reality Dysfunction: Expansion
The Neutronium Alchemist: Consolidation
The Neutronium Alchemist: Conflict
The Naked God: Flight
The Naked God: Faith

Here is what the Publisher has to say about the trilogy:

From the Publisher

The Reality Dysfunction and The Neutronium Alchemist chronicled an epic, far-future struggle set in a universe of thrilling complexity. Multiple worlds, alien races, two types of future humanity, and uncountable forms of fascinating future technology make up the universe created by Peter F. Hamilton. The "reality dysfunction" is a break in the fabric of reality that allows the dead to return to our world, where they possess living bodies. Gradually, it becomes horrifyingly clear that all of humanity is at risk of being taken over by the minds of those long dead. More and more of the dead are stealing the bodies of those still living, grouping together into powerful consortiums led by leaders from history.

Opposing this development is an increasingly desperate Confederation Navy. Joshua Calvert is assigned to chase after Alkad Mzu, who is trying to recover the "doomsday weapon" that might possibly blast the dead back into oblivion. Mzu is hunted not only by Joshua, but also by various intelligence agencies and the possessed themselves, all of whom are desperate to lay hands on the weapon.

In The Naked God, the Confederation starts to collapse economically and politically as more star systems fall to the possessed. On Earth, Quinn Dexter plots to bring about the Final Night for the human race. Opposing him is Louise Kavanagh, who unknowingly teams up with the universe's most powerful and secretive policeman. In the midst of all this chaos, Joshua Calvert and Syrinx take their ships in search of an alien god which may hold the solution to the current crisis. Unfortunately, it was lost in space ten thousand years ago on the other side of the Orion Nebula, and the Tyrathca, the only ones who might know where it is, aren't telling.

To me this is a powerful and expansive story and I enjoyed reading each of the books and got quite caught up in the adventure and in the detailed worlds Hamilton has created.

A thought on something I read lately in my Illlustrated Encyclopedia of SF: It said something about that SF is the only genre of writing in which the old classics are constantly being reprinted. I think this is because in some way one must grow into SF and that is best done by reading the best of the earlier works. What do you think? I thought of this in conjunction with the recommended books which I think might overpower anyone not familiar with SF.

I'd love some other thoughts on this

This week's recommendation is a book by a more 'modern' author: The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson, who also wrote Snow Crash, and Cryptonomicon. Here as usual is a small publisher's blurb.

From the Publisher

"In Snow Crash, Neal Stephenson took science fiction to dazzling new levels. Now, in The Diamond Age, he delivers another stunning tale. Set in twenty-first century Shanghai, it is the story of what happens when a state-of-the-art interactive device falls into the hands of a street urchin named Nell. Her life-and the entire future of humanity-is about to be decoded and reprogrammed...."

The state-of-the-art interactive device is a book -a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer-and a book like no other. It sees and hears what goes on around it and only activates in the presence of a young girl, or in the presence of a specific young girl. It bonds with the girl interacting with it and through the use of fairy tale and myth teaches the girl how to live and survive in her society.

Can you imagine a book like that? One in which you become part of the stories and there are an unending number of everchanging stories.

This is a good book.

How perceptive of Stephenson. Of course we are all reading books where we are involved in the action, we become who we are reading about. But the interactive part, that is really seductive. And, to have a handle on the events/people that we are always puzzling over - should I have said/not said yada yada, why did she/he do that, will I get the job, etc., all I can say is WOW! Thanks, Nellie, that one is on my list.

Hi Mrs. Watson! I think you will enjoy Diamond Age. I certainly did. I got a kick out of the little girl being called Nell...I am a Nell in a way after all.

Your remarks about having to "progress" from the old masters, whose themes may be assumed to be less complex, to the present range of SF is interesting. The OMs were writing, in large part, for adolescent boys, weren't they? That describes the competition at the library when I started in SF in the 60's. These are the guys who grew up to present us with ET, Star Wars, etc. (The first time I saw Star Wars, I was stunned. Here was vintage SF but played straight, not parodized or camped. When I left the theater, I couldn't remember if there was a sound track with music! The second time the music was right there where it belonged.) SF had little legitimacy for a long time. It took Star Trek to make it a cultural icon. The movie producers capitalized on all the Trekkers' interest. Today, there is less Gee Whiz about SF. Maybe we all need some of that sense of wonder to enhance the more prosaic treatments we get now.

Mrs. Watson, I'm thinking that the OM's writings were less complex not only because they mainly wrote for a readership of teenage boys -and the occasional girl-but the 'science' behind what they wrote was also less complex than the 'science' of today. We have discovered so much more in the realms of science since those days and have technologies that did not even exist then.

Is the sense of wonder gone from Science Fiction because our 'sense of wonder' about the future is gone?

First,let me say that Seeds of Time, by Kenyon, is one humdinger of a space opera. I couldn't put it down! Second, I can not judge the loss of wonder as the frontiers of science have expanded, since I have always been a science "groupie". Also, I live in Silicon Valley, where much is taken for granted in the technology realm. To me, science is still catching up to SF. The wonder is still there, but it is slipping farther and farther ahead. Welles'Time Machine is a far cry from Kenyon's Dives, but still the same end. The means have changed from a wind-up clockwork to something more akin to something that runs on invisible force. One can see the spring in a clock unwind, but nothing shows in the battery clock on the wall. In one sense the battery is more wonderous than the spring. The wonder of "seeing" the core of the universe, seeing stellar events which occurred billions of years ago, leaves me speechless, so to speak.

Mrs. Watson, I'm glad you are enjoying The Seeds of Time! I found that I could hardly put it down. I have a couple of other books by Kenyon -The Rift, and Leap Point-that I find very good also.

Finally got a book of the week recommended. I have been busy with offline things and haven't had the time. I chose an old classic which I read ages and ages ago:

The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury

I'll let the publisher's blurb tell what this is about.

From the Publisher

Bradbury's Mars is a place of hope, dreams and metaphor - of crystal pillars and fossil seas - where a fine dust settles on the great, empty cities of a silently destroyed civilization. It is here the invaders have come to despoil and commercialize, to grow and to learn - first a trickle, then a torrent, rushing from a world with no future toward a promise of tomorrow. The Earthman conquers Mars...and then is conquered by it, lulled by dangerous lies of comfort and familiarity, and enchanted by the lingering glamour of an ancient, mysterious native race.

I think it is time that I read this book again

Nellie: Martian Chronicles was so vividly portrayed, so lyrical, that it still haunts me. I, too, will read it again. In some way, though, I'm afraid to put it to the test of my own changed awareness. When I read it first, second, etc., Mars was mysterious. The hint of hidden civilizations there and on Venus... Now I know what is there. When I watched Swartzenegger battle the bad guys in that movie, can't remember its name, it was to concrete to be a fantasy, it was just plain ole' shoot-em-up time. But Bradbury's Mars was a romantic dream. I hate to give it up!

Mrs. Watson, the Swarzeneger movie was Total Recall. Yes a different sort of Mars from the one in The Martian Chronicles. Have you read any of the Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson? I think they are Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars, and The Martians. I keep wanting to get them, but when I see them I don't have the money and when I have the money I don't see them.

I do have Moving Mars by Greg Bear but have to read it again because I can't really recall what it is about.

I used to enjoy Edgar Rice Burrough's John Carter of Mars series a lot. Now there was a truly different Mars. Although it was based upon what our perception and knowlege of the planet was at the time.

I was browsing the web and found an interesting website.

Author Pseudonyms

One of the things I found is that Marion Zimmer Bradley has also written under the names of Lee Chapman, John Dexter, Miriam Gardiner, Valerie Graves, Morgan Ives, and Elfrida Rivers.

Marjorie: THat's a great site. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Marjorie! That is an interesting site.

I just finished reading this week's book and very much enjoyed it.

From the Publisher

The planet of Prokaryon is harsh and alien, uninhabitable for normal humans - accessible only to those willing to be genetically altered, a long and painful process. This marks it as the perfect site for a colony of orphans. Founded by Brother Rod and his fellow Spirit Brethren, the colony offers them a chance to forge a new home in relative peace. But all is not as it seems on Prokaryon. Sudden, fortuitous rainstorms quench forest fires and then rapidly dissipate. The entire planet's ecosystem is highly structured - too structured to have been formed by the randomness of nature. But decades of research have turned up no real evidence of any "hidden masters" of Prokaryon. So when Proteus Unlimited, a greedy interstellar corporation, plans to terraform Prokaryon, first mining it and then making it habitable by normal humans, thereby netting huge profits, the search for native intelligent life becomes a frantic race against time. Lost in this shuffle of bureaucracy and greed is this simple colony of orphans, whose settlement will be wiped out if the entire surface of the planet is boiled off.

Joan Slonczewski is one of the leading writers of biological SF -I think this is because she is a biologist. I am wondering if most writers of science fiction have work and education in the Sciences?

It wasn't until a couple of days AFTER the TV show that I thought to mention that I saw "The Mists of Avalon" on TNT and enjoyed it very much. I understood the story better than I did years ago when I read the book by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Is story fantasy? What is the difference between fantasy and science fiction?

Marjorie: THat's a good question. Used to be that fantasy had swords and SF had phasers. Charles de Lint's urban fantasies eschew swords, but fantasies they are. I don't know how to define the difference. Maybe we can have a contest, or something.

Marjorie, Mrs. Watson, that is a good question. What is the difference between fantasy and science fiction? Maybe it is magic? In Fantasy there is magic that provides the backbone for the stories, and in Science Fiction it is science that provides the backbone. Keep your thoughts coming on this.

The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge has recently been reprinted and is my choice for Book of the Week. Here is a bit From the Book/Publisher:

The Winter colonists have ruled Tiamat for 150 years, slaughtering the gentle sea mers in trade for off-world wealth. But soon the gate to the galactic Hegemony will close, Tiamat will be isolated, and the 150-year reign of the Summer primitive will begin. Unless Arienrhod, the ageless, corrupt Snow Queen, can commit a genocidal crime - and destroy destiny...unless Sparks Dawntreader, the Snow Queen's companion, can survive sea and city palace and slums - and find destiny....unless Hegemony Commander Jerusha Palathion, and Snow Queen's victim, can find one ally on Tiamat - and change destiny...And unless Moon Summer, a young mystic, can break a conspiracy that spans space - and control destiny. Because Moon is the Snow Queen's lost weapon. The Snow Queen's lost rival. The Snow Queen's lost soul. Moon is the Snow Queen's clone...

If you have not read this before this is a good book to read. Tiamat is a fascinating planet.

Nellie: I loved Snow Queen. And, thanks for picking such interesting books, I am loving The Children Planet. This author has even me interested in biology! Triple strand DNA...

Mrs. Watson, you might also like Door into Ocean, and Brain Plague both of which are by Slonczewski. Brain Plague is a follow up to The Children Star.

I'm reading Cherryh's Morgaine series which has a lot of the trappings of heroic fantasy and yet the gates that once took the alien race, of which Morgaine seems to be a member, from world to world throughout the galaxy seem to add more a quality of science fiction; as do Morgaine's weapons. I'm reading The Gate of Ivrel and am about halfways through.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a choice for this week's book. I can think of some good ones but none of them are in print any more. I like to suggest books I have read myself and ones which are available at B&N.

I found one! I was thinking of featuring a book by Michael Bishop and found one that is available, if only as an ebook. I guess you might find it in a library as well.

No Enemy But Time by Michael Bishop.

I remember this being a good book when I read it a long while back, and it is waiting its turn in my 'to be read again' pile of books. Here is a synopsis provided by the publisher or B&N:

Synopsis

John Monegal, a.k.a. Joshua Kampa, is torn between two worlds — the Early Pleistocene Africa of his dreams and the twentieth-century reality of his waking life. These worlds are transposed when a government experiment sends him over a million years back in time. Here, John builds a new life as part of a tribe of protohumans. But the reality of early Africa is much more challenging than his fantasies. With the landscape, the species, and John himself evolving, he reaches a temporal crossroads where he must decide whether the past or the future will be his present.

Some other books by Bishop:

Eyes of fire
A Little Knowledge
Transfigurations
Blooded on Arachne
Stolen Faces

Bishop writes or wrote what I would term anthropological science fiction. I enjoy what he writes and wish there were more of it.

Nellie: You've done it again. What a story line! I'm rushing off the used book store as I write. Thanks.

LOL It seems I keep adding to your book collection with my suggestions, Mrs. Watson!

Yes, you do, and I wish you would stop it. I don't have room for the books I have now, much less adding more each week based on your recommendations! Stop! Stop, Please! I'll never read all these in ten lifetimes. You're a fiend, Nellie Vrolek.

Ah, but you are supposed to clear out the old books to make way for the new, Mrs. Watson

Of course my advice about clearing out the old does not apply to myself since I keep every book I have; and the few times I have gotten rid of an old book, I promptly went out to see if I could find another copy because I missed its presence.

If you'll tell me what kind of SF books you don't like, then I shall recommend a few of those LOL! Otherwise I shall just have to continue being cruel...hahaha!

As if there were SF books I didn't like! Seriously, I had some problems with Bishop's book; I kept saying "Prime Directive! Prime Directive!". I know, Joshua is not visiting an alien planet with sentients, he's, well, you know what I mean. Still, it took me quite a while to get used to his interacting with the sentients. This book will be with me quite a while. Thank you, Nellie, for the profound experience.

When you saw man walking on the moon for the first time, what feelings did that evoke? What were the circumstances surrounding your experience with the moon walk? If you remember the moon walk, we here on the ECHO Project (Exploring and Collecting History Online) at George Mason University's Center for History and New Media would love to have you share your memories. We invite everyone to come to the Memory Bank on the ECHO website and record your memories of the moon walk. http://echo.gmu.edu/memory

--The ECHO Staff: Roy Rosenzweig, Dan Cohen, Jim Sparrow, Greg Goodale and Chris Gegenheimer

Mrs. Watson, I had to smile at your "Prime Directive!" as I've used that same phrase while reading an SF Book more than once. If you can find Transfigurations or Eyes of Fire by Bishop. Both are older books and excellent on human and alien interactions.

I want to read 'No Enemy But Time' again, and I saw it among my books very recently. But do you think I can see it now? No way. I see books when I'm not looking for them and when I am looking they hide.

Dan, nice to see you visiting. I bookmarked that interesting site and when I have time will share my memories of the first moonwalk. I hope you come back and spend some time in our book discussions.

Dan: I shall be happy to respond. I will also make sure that my friends and family are aware of your research and the opportunity to share their feelings and thoughts with your team. Thank you.

If anyone has any questions about the website or comments you can send an e-mail to echo@history.gmu.edu --Chris - ECHO staff

This time I'm recommending a book that I have on my wishlist for when it comes out in paperback. Anything by Williamson is usually good and this sounds good going by the publisher's blurb.

From the Publisher

"Jack Williamson, the dean of American science fiction writers, has written some of the most imaginative and exciting speculative fiction published during the nine decades of his extraordinary career. With Terraforming Earth, this Grand Master of the field tackles nothing less than the fate of the earth after a catastrophic impact by a huge meteor." "Unlike the scores of novels, films, and television miniseries that dwell on how humanity might deal with such an event, this novel takes us past the terrible collision and far into the future, with a group of people who escape the debacle to establish a safe harbor on Earth's Moon." "From Tycho Base they can monitor conditions on the devastated earth. Years pass, then centuries, and then millenia, as they, their cloned children, and their children's children through successive generations undertake the enormous challenge of restoring life to a barren planet."--BOOK JACKET.

Sad the hear of Poul Anderson's death. I shall have to dig out some of his books and re-read them. Didn't he write about the blue event horizon?

Mrs. Watson. I heard about Poul Anderson's death. He did not write about 'the blue event horizon' that was Frederic Pohl.

The last book Anderson wrote was Genesis. I have a book by him called 'The Boat of a Million Years' and one called 'The Avatar' and I know I have more but can't recall the titles right now.

Thanks, Nellie. I got those two mixed up, obviously. The Willaimson book sounds good. I shall have to look for it, as well as Anderson. I wonder how Blue Event Horizon holds up after all these years? Hmmm...

Mrs. Watson, now I'm tempted to read my Heechee books by Pohl again. I think the series begins with Gateway and Beyond the Blue Event Horizon is the second book. I would think that all the books should still be an enjoyable read even after a long passage of time.

I want to finish Dune: House Atreides first though.

I thought it would be only fitting to recommend a book by Poul Anderson this week and Genesis seems like a good one, if this synopsis is anything to go by:

Synopsis

Astronaut Christian Brannock has lived to see artificial intelligence develop to a point where a human personality can be uploaded into a computer, achieving a sort of hybrid immortality. He welcomes that because the technology will make it possible for him to achieve his dream and explore the stars... A billion years later, Brannock is dispatched to Earth to check on some strange anomalies. While there, he meets Laurinda Ashcroft, another hybrid upload. Brannock and Laurinda join forces and investigate Gaia, the supermind dominating the planet, and learn the truth of her shocking and terrifying secret plans for Earth.

I haven't read it yet, but plan on getting the book as soon as I can.

Wow! What a concept! That one is on my list.

May I intrude? I was one of those young boys that the Early writers wrote for. I cut my teeth on Heinlen, Asimov, Kornbluth, Poul, Pohl and Bradbury to name a few. I first found Sci. Fi in 1949 when I entered High School as it contained the first Library I came in contact with. I lived and breathed Sci. Fi. Naturally. I was the butt of jokes and what all. It was with immense pleasure that I saw Man land on the moon and it was shown shown T.V. something that would have been considered Sci Fi when I was 14. Star Wars was also a big thrill mostly because the people who used to laugh at me for liking Sci Fi. were babbling things that they laughed at when I said them when I was young. And, of course, the Computer. The "electronic Brain" of Sci fi. A bit of revenge in a way. What gets me is that those who laughed back when deny it that they did it, now. they claim that they "Knew" that what has come to be would come to be. I don't read Sci Fi any more mostly because the modern stuff is so unlike that which I read as a youth.

Me again. I thought I would go back over the previous post in this discussion group. Imagine my surprise that the starting date was 1997! I have been loggin on to the Sernior Net since the early part of this year. So, I have missed much of what has gone on in the past years. I will try to read all of the past posts but it is going to take a while. My daughtr is a real Sci Fi and Fantasy Fan. However, with two young babies she has little time to read anything. I will tell her about this discussion group and will keep her posted on any books or authors I read about here that she might be interested in.

Hi, Tiger. Hice to see you over here is this neck of the woods. We talk about the oldies, and re-read them occassionally, too. Glad you'll be lurking. Tell your daughter to drop in any time. It's not required that she be an old fogy, only that she read SF and fantasy.

Hello Tiger and welcome to the SF Clearinghouse! I cut my SF teeth on those same classic SF authors -Heinlein, Asimov etc.- but at a slightly later time. They will always be my favourites because of the memories they bring back. But there are a lot of good stories being written now as well and I think that you would enjoy any of the books I recommend in Book of the Week.

As Mrs.Watson says your daughter is welcome to join us when she has the time.

Thanks for the welcome. I love(d) Sci Fi when I was young and probably still do. I cannot remember a time when looking up at the Moon and the Stars didn't cause a yearning in me to see them. When I was in the third grade the school I atteneded had a "Library". I would go in and get the Astronomy book it had and read it, a few pages at a time. One day one of the teachers saw me sitting reading and asked what I was reading. Me, being innocent, showed her the book. It was immediately taken from me and I was told that the book was for 6th grade on up. Not for my age. Never mind that I could read it and understand what I was reading. I kept trying to sneak back in to continue reading the book (even tried to check it out, no luck) sometimes I was successful and most times not. So too with Sci Fi, I was too young for that stuff and I was not allowed to lay hands on it. Stupid, but that was the way it was in the early 40's. Fortunately that did not diminsh my interest in Astronomy or Sci Fi although it did put a crimp in my liking of school. BTW, I tested out as being able to read and comprehend seven levels above my age, i.e. senior in college when I was a sophmore in high school. I spoke to my daughter on th telephone last night. I told her of the seniornet and of this discussion group. She was interested but just doesn't have the time. Her daughter has a "Syndrome" (Wolf-Hirshorn) and she needs quite a great deal of attention because of it. It may be in future when things get a bit better my daughter might be able to log in a contribute, who knows.

Tiger: Can you tell us more about your granddaughter's health problems? How old is she? Please convey to your daughter my understanding and support. I, too, had difficulties with my children when they were small and it seems as if it's just one thing after another, never ending. But she will get better at managing.

Mrs. Watson. My Grand Daughtr's, Aidan (means little fire in Gaelic,) syndrome is Wolf-Hirschorn. The name is from the two Doctor's who first identified the Syndrome in the early 1970's. It is also called 4P minus. this is because the syndrome is caused by a deletion on the forth Cromosome. The severity of the symdrome depends on a) the location of the deletion and the size of the deletion. Although, the location is the most important element. children with this Syndrome can have a whole range problems from the very mild to the very serious. In Aidan's case she is probably nearer the mild end. She was born with a cleft lip and pallett eye problems and a mild case of "Greek Helmet Face" She will always be very small, right now she is three and a half, weight about 18 pounds. she does not talk, can only walk with help. Is mentally (retarded, challenged, slow, your choice of tems) and always will be. Like all 4P minus children she loves Music and is a very happy child. She will always need help. the best we can hope for is that she will one day walk a bit and perhaps talk a bit and take care of herself a bit. However, the really serious cases of this syndrome are little more than vegetables. Many die in the first three years of life. Aidan dodged a good deal of the bullet. She is the Apple of my Daughter's eye. Did you know that there are over 2000 "Syndromes?" I am always in awe of the fact that most people are a) born, and b) born normal. the odds against both of those are enormous. BTW, one boy with this Sydrome was considered completely mentally deficient. He couldn't talk, didn't seem to be aware of his surroundings or of people. For some reason his parents gave him a computer. He taught himself to read and write and to date has written three books. Simple books but books never the less. One never knows.

Tiger Tom, I think your daughter is a most courageous and loving person. Who knows what time will bring for Aidan?

I remember wanting to go to the Moon and to Mars when I was a youngster...and I still do. I have two books that I look in once in a while called Challenge of the Stars and New Challenge of the Stars which have in them beautiful illustrations of what one might see on other planets in our solar system and in other stellar/solar systems. I imagine being in the places in the illustrations.

In a way we are living Sci-Fi everytime we use our computers to communicate via the Net like I'm doing now. If someone had shown me a picture of the computer I'm using now when I was twelve and told me that I would be using something like that on a daily basis; I would have been fascinated but I wouldn't have believed them for one minute.

I was going to say something more, but it has flown out of my mind.

Because my Grand Daughter was born with a Syndrome, I did a little scratching on the internet. I found That the cases of Syndromes are increasing and new ones are being identified frequently. Some, myself included, attribute this to what man is doing to his invironment and what he is dumping into his food. For Instance, we are all being exposed to more and new forms of radiation which could knock off a chunck of a Chromosome in a developing fetus. New medications can do the same thing. I first read "Space Cadet" and the Red Planet" by Heinlein, when I was 14. MAN, did I so want to be a Cadet I even tried walking in the way that was described in the book so that if I were in a space ship that turned upside down I would land on my feet. Got a lot of looks out of that one. I guess it is because I read Sci Fi when I was young that I accepted so much that has come down the pike in the past 30 or so years so easily. How I wish I could have had a modern day computer when I was 12, heaven. Of course I would have needed all of the software, games, etc. SIGH. Anyway, I am glad that I have lived to see them. Think of what may be coming that we are going to miss.

Living Science Fiction is right on the button. That boy who taught himslef to read and then wrote three books, were would he be without this marvel, the computer? Aidan is lucky to have a mother like your daughter, and a loving grandfather like you. With unconditional love, we can survive anything, I believe.

I think I've got another good book to share in Robert J. sawyer's Calculating God. Here is some of what the editors at B&N have to say about it:

From Our Editors

Alien Intelligence
In the engaging and thoughtful Calculating God, Nebula Award-winner Robert J. Sawyer (Frameshift, Flashforward) gives us yet another novel full of deeply insightful speculation on the universe at large and humanity's place in it. Sawyer toys with the conventions of the hard SF tale brewed with meditations of philosophic and spiritual significance. Setting the pace and tone for a new kind of enriching blend, Sawyer's work proves to be an electrifying mix of old-fashioned alien contact as well as pertinent, enthralling conjecture. Calculating God is an offbeat and highly informative novel that shows a provocative understanding of man's need to grow closer to his creator.

When an alien ship lands in the courtyard of the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto and asks to speak with a paleontologist, most people believe a big budget movie is being filmed nearby. That is until the chief paleontologist, Tom Jericho, meets with a large spider-like being named Hollus and learns it is a scientist who's come to Earth to study fossils pertaining to the five great planet-wide extinctions, including the one that destroyed the dinosaurs, which helped shape the evolutionary scale of the Earth. Hollus stuns Jericho by explaining that his own distant world, as well as that of another intelligent alien race, suffered the same cataclysms during the same five time periods. Hollus believes that these universal designs and patterns irrefutably prove the existence of God. ...

I'm still reading this one but enjoy it a lot.

How do you find them? Is this in PB?

Mrs. Watson, I find them in the book store. This one is in paperback and is available at B&N.

You all have got to read Left Behind. It is the first book in a series by TimLaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. Looks like there are at least 8 books in the series.

I belong to a SiFi book club so ordered it.... now I want them all. So if anyone has them I am willing to read them and return them.

Hi FrancyLou, nice to see you again. I've not heard of Left Behind, so could you tell us a bit of what it is about? Sounds like it could be a good series from the title.

I decided it was about time that I took myself away from this computer for a while, so I went out and poked around the bookstore where I found many books that I would have wanted, but satisfied myself with a few. I got...

The Depths of Time by Roger Mcbride Allen
Alpha Centauri by William Barton and Michael Capobianco
Tropic of Creation by Kay Kenyon
Genesis by Poul Anderson
24 Hours by Greg Iles (not SciFi)

I started reading Genesis in the restaurant while eating lunch. Definitely good!! After that I went to the German store to pick up a bunch of yummies and home again with all my loot.

One needs to have a change once in a while

Nellie: Why is it we get such a lift from shopping? I find that I crave it if it has been too long between outings. It isn't the buying, it can be simply looking.

Mrs. Watson, I did a lot of looking at books; and a lot of picking up, carrying around and putting back, as each time I would see another book I liked even more. I suppose you do that too? I don't have money of my own, but once every couple of months my mother will hand me fifty bucks and tell me to treat myself to some new books. So I have to be picky and choosy because I can only get so many for that amount of money.

I like shopping alone, but it is even more fun when you do it with someone else. What do you think?

I finished Calculating God by Sawyer and the only complaint I have is that it ended before I wanted it to or expected it to. I wanted more.

Now I've begun Poul Anderson's Genesis and so far it is excellent.

I found a personal website for Kay Kenyon -Seeds of Time- who is fast becoming one of my favourite authors.

Kay Kenyon Web Site

I am about halfways through this week's recommended book and I would say it is one of those 'must read' type of books.

Tropic of Creation by Kay Kenyon...and as per usual I will let the publisher articulate what I would like to say:

From the Publisher

In the bloody war that ended between The Congress Worlds and the alien ahtra, Captain Eli Dammond had distinguished himself as an officer who could no wrong—until his last catastrophic battle. Now, with his shining reputation tarnished, the commander finds himself assigned to a grimy kettle of a ship making basic transport missions. Routine work -until he arrives on Null: a barren, scorned world at the mercy of two suns. Here, a marooned human outpost has survived for three years until their rescue by Eli's ship. But on this austere planet, the human newcomers are about to learn a harsh lesson: that nothing is quite as it seems. For soon a new season will call forth a hidden ecology both exquisite and deadly. And Null will test the survivors in a fight no soldier was ever trained for, and few can predict - while a young the survivors in a fight no soldier was trained for, and few predict - while a young woman of privilege may well prove to be their finest warrior.

Yet for Eli Dammond, the worst struggle will unfold below the surface. There he will discover a threat to all the settle human worlds, even as he matches wits an adversary both familiar and alien. The odds are against human survival on null's surface or indeed, in the galaxy— unless Eli succeeds in bringing home the hard-won secret that neither human nor ahtra can hear.

This book is hard to put down once you start reading it

My younger sister wanted to go out with me today, and that usually means a visit to Chapters. There I got two new books: Spindle's End by Robin Mckinley -a retelling of the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale, and the other is Dune: House Harkonnen by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson.

Both promise to be pleasant reads.

Spindle's End begins much like the familiar fairy tale of the Sleeping Beauty. There are a king and a queen to whom a little princess is born, and on the baby's name-day/christening and twenty-one invited fairies give fairy gifts and there is an evil fairy by name of Pernicia who pronounces the curse about pricking her finger on a spindle and dying...

And then it all becomes wonderfully different. There is no other fairy hovering in the background to alter the curse. Instead a maybe-fairy named Katriona with the help of a magic medallion she was given by a passing man, manages to reach the cradle and snatch the baby princess away.

On the three month long journey home the baby is fed by animals of all types who offer their milk for the purpose. Katriona and her Aunt, Sophronia will discover that Rosie -from the last part of her full name-as the princess is called by them, will not be anything like they expect. She is not pretty or beautiful. She hates her hair and cuts it short when four years old. She is a tomboy who never wears dresses, if she can help it. Rosie is the most unprincess like princess one could ever run into.

For twenty years she lives an idyllic existence in Foggy Bottom. She has grown up to become the village horse leech or vet. Katriona too has married and has three children of her own. They share a yard with people who have a daughter named Peony, who looks like the princess Rosie is supposed to be.

Rosie and Peony become good friends. Such good friends that at times they seem like one person; and that gives Katriona and Aunt an idea for a ruse that will deflect the spell on Rosie that will happen on her twenty-first birthday and cause it to fall on Peony instead. Because the spell is not meant for Peony, when she pricks her finger she will just fall asleep instead of dying.

Anyways, I'd better stop before I give the whole story away. Like all Mckinley's books it is very enjoyable to read.

Nellie: I've put that one on mylist. Here's one for you: Mindly L Klasky is writing a series starring Rani Trader. First was Glasswright's Apprentice, next Glasswright's Progress. My daughter read these, and so did I . Great space opera stuff (without space, aliens, technology--what would you call it?)

THanks, Mrs. Watson, those books sound interesting. I'm trying to think of what you would call a space opera without space, aliens or technology -sounds more like fantasy than SciFi to me.

Terrible thing those planes hijacked and crashing into the World Trade Center in NY which now no longer exists, and the attack on the Pentagon also. This is like something one reads of in one of those thrillers...but this is the real thing.

Nellie: The feelings of numbness are wearing off. Yesterday was sleepwalking. Quiet at work. That was a day when the world forever changed.

I should get another book of the week up, but just can't think of which one would be good; or rather I can think of too many that are good. Unfortunately not all of the books I really enjoy and would like to share are still in print. I often look at the bookshelf that is near my bed on which my most favourite books reside and then I think 'now that is a nice book that I should share about with fellow SciFi readers.' But then I see how old it is and I think it is unfair to get people excited about a book they may not be able to get.

I found a new author whose books I have not yet read...here is a link to her website:

plaguetales.com

The books sound really good. She also does some beautiful beadwork and writes books on beading and sells kits.

I've got Spindle's End. Looks good. Nellie, what is the name of the Sherri S. Tepper book about a religion like Islam? Something about men vs. women? My books are in boxes, and I don't have any idea which of the twenty or so boxes it is in, nor can I get to them easily. It was about 5 or 6 years ago, I think. Seems like it was prophetic.

Mrs. Watson, are you thinking of The Gate to Women's Country? In that one men and women live totally separated for the most part. But I don't recall any type of religion in that one. One of the more recent books seemed to have an Islamic type religion in it. Possibly Singer From the Sea?

Some of my books are nicely out on shelves but others are piled in stacks at abut each other and finding one in that is as hard as finding them in boxes. Actually for me it would be easier if I did have the piled up ones in boxes because I would put them in alphabetically by author and lable the box accordingly.

I'm thinking of changing Book of the Week to Book of the Month -that way I will have a longer time to agonize over which book is coming next. Since we were speaking of Tepper, maybe a book by her?

I think I'll go snoop around B&N and see what is there of interest. I like recommending books to myself too. I have a whole list of books that I want to get and read.

Nellie: What an excellent idea. Alphabetizing the books BEFORE you put them into the boxes! Wish I had thought of that.

In answer to your questions, the Book of the Month sounds ok to me. Also, I enjoy seeking out old books. The search itself is enjoyable, and the rewards are many. So, recommend what ever you like. Old, new, a good book is a good book.

Mrs. Watson, I have been praised more than once for my organizing abilities in places I worked at.

I decided on a Tepper book. This is one of her older ones -mine was printed in 1994.

Plague of Angels can best be described as a blending of fantasy and science fiction because it contains elements of both. The book starts with:

Moonset, just before dawn; swollen moon collapsing into a notch between black mountains; river talking quietly to itself among the stones; pine and horsemint scenting the air as Abasio brushed by them on his way down the farm lane.

The story involves an orphan girl growing up in an enchanted village into a lovely young woman and her name is simply Orphan. It involves Abasio who is looking for adventure. It involves a witch hiding in a fortress; and a prophecy that brings all three together.

I have this one in my 'to be read again' pile. I'm slowly reading all my Tepper books again to catch nuances that I missed in my first, rushed 'I must know what happens next!' reading of the books.

Have you heard or read any of the Mageworlds series by Debra Doyle and James D. MacDonald? They seem interesting from what I read at B&N.

My choice for this week's book is one I am in the process of reading and find quite good. Here is a bit from the back cover of the book:

The settled universe is filled with terraformed worlds linked by timeshafts -temporal wormholes in deep space. These timeshafts are the only way to travel the vast distances between the stars

Another set of books I very much enjoyed reading more than once is the Ozark Fantasy Trilogy by Suzette Haden Elgin. The three books that comprise the trilogy are:

Twelve Fair Kingdoms
which begins like this:

I should have known that something was very wrong when the Mules started flying erratically.

The Grand Jubilee
And Then There'll Be Fireworks

These are older books of mine and may not be easy to find. But, if and when you do find them, I'm sure you will enjoy them as much as I have.

HaHaHa! I checked at B&N and Elgin's Ozark Fantasy Trilogy is available and I discovered that she wrote a number of books on verbal abuse and one on grandmothering, plus a bunch on how to speak gently to others. Interesting isn't it?

I was thinking this morning that Science Fiction could be called Technology Fiction or Technological Fiction because most SciFi books involve future technology much more than they do science.

Anyone have any thoughts on the above?

I went out with my younger sister and we ended up in the bookstore as usual where I picked up two SciFi paperbacks, both by Charles Sheffield: one is Transvergence and the other is Starfire and both promise to be good reads.

Have you read Dana Stabenow's mystery series about Alaska born Kate Shugak? She creates memorable characters, including a wolf-dog named Mutt. Well, Stabenow has written SF. I''m reading Second Staf and the characters, again, are great--three dimensional. Interesting story of creating a colony/habitat at Lagrange Five. Interesting science,skulduggery, romance, suspense.

Mrs. Watson, this is the first I've heard of Stabenow, so I've not read anything by her. I'll keep an eye out for her SciFi books. I don't read that many mysteries -though I do like them. There just isn't time for everything.

I started reading when I was young but didn't appreciate Sifi and Fantasy untill I was much older. My sister was visiting and she was reading something by Piers Anthony. I picked it up started reading it and became hooked. I've been reading everything I can find by every author Including Wicked, Confessions of the Ugly step Sister, Foundation, Lord of the Rings ,Thomas Covenet, Ill Earth, I could go on and on and on. Now this type of fiction is my preferance and Anthony is my favorite.

LadyMerry: Welcome! Always glad to meet another fan. We SFers are literally out in left field, way way way out, to readers of "serious" fiction, so we have to stick together. Nellie keeps me salivating with her Book of the Week,always interesting, many times new to me authors,always worth the time.

Hello LadyMerry, and welcome to the SciFi discussion! Since Piers Anthony is your favourite author you must have a lot of his Xanth series in your collection?

He is one of my favourite authors too and I have most of the Xanth series and a lot of other books by him. My very favourite book that I have that was written by Anthony is Macroscope -I love the imagination and the grandness of it.

Hi Mrs. Watson! I do think that I still have to provide a book of the week -sometimes I forget or simply fall behind. I have a good idea for one right now since we are speaking of Piers Anthony...shall go poke around B&N to see what books of his are there.

This week's recommendation is A Spell for Chameleon by Piers Anthony. This is the book that began what is perhaps one of the longest book series ever. And it shows no sign of stopping, which delights all of us Xanth fans IMO.

Here is an exerpt from the publisher:

From the Publisher

Xanth was the enchanted land where magic ruled—where every citizen had a special spell only he could cast. That is, except for Bink of North Village. He was sure he possessed no magic, and knew that if he didn't find some soon, he would be exiled. According to the Good Magician Humpfrey, the charts said that Bink was as powerful as the King or even the Evil Magician Trent. Unfortunately, no one could determine its form. Meanwhile, Bink was in despair. If he didn't find his magic soon, he would be forced to leave....

I think the Xanth books are just the thing to be reading when you are feeling a bit down because if they don't make you laugh out loud, or emit the occasional chortle, then they are sure to make you smile.

Oh I loved that one. I think I read every one he ever wrote. Did you read "Orn"? It was a little different from the rest of his work. It is hard to believe he was a dentist at one time. My favorite of all of his is "Crewel Lye". Right now I am reading "Artemis Fowl" by Eoin Coltier. If you like Harry Potter you will like this one. With all that is going on in the world today Nellie and Mrs. Watson Escaping to another world is a must and so what if people think we have lost our minds when we are reading and ROFLMAO. Have a great day and I am so glad I found this site.

Hello again LadyMerry -I like that name! Yes I have read Orn. I'm going to see if I can find a bibliography of all of Anthony's works and maybe I'll list them all here.

I've not heard of Eoin Coltier before, nor of Artemis Fowl. Can you tell a bit about the book?

SciFi and Fantasy allows us to escape to worlds that thrill, worlds that amuse, worlds that awe; what could be better?

Eoin Colfer is fairly new to the fantasy. He is an elementry school teacher and this is his second novel His first "Benny and Omar" went to the top of the Irish charts. I haven't really decided if I like this book yet or not. Artemis is a 12 year old master mind and decides to regain the family fortunes by kidnapping a fairy and holding her for ransome. Only the Fairys and leprechons in this book are not like the ones in bed time stories they are armed and dangerous, they deffinately don't play by our rules. I am about half way through I'll let you know what I think when I am done . If you like fairys, unicorns, trolls and leprechons you will find this an enjoyable read but don't expect the characters to be as colorful as Anthony's ot Tolkins.

Hi LadyMerry! The book does sound quite interesting. Let us know how you liked it after you finish it, please? I'm going to keep an eye out for it when I snoop around the bookstore.

Hi Nellie, I finished Artemis last night and I must tell you. This book has a lot of twist for as short as it is. It has a good story line and leaves plenty of room for follow-up stories. On the whole it is a good book. I just think Eoin should have taken a little more time to develope his characters and settings. Miramax must see a lot of potential in it, they are planning on making it into a movie. Well, Nellie, have a great day. I am off to start reading "The Two Princesse of Bamarre", By Gail Carson Levine. Before I go I wanted to tell you the only book of Anthony's I didn't like was Anthonology, some of it was down right Disgusting.

LadyMerry, I've read Anthonology, but such a long time ago that I can't remember much of it. I'm curious: what did you find disgusting in it? Have you read Anthony's book Firefly? That one is really different!

Hello Nellie, I consider myself openminded but in this particular book human females were breed as cattle for meat and milk. the way he discribed what was done with and to those women was sick. I mean we are talking like foreign men and sheep. No I don't think I did read FireFly. I have read so many over the years. someone recently asked me if I had read the Gut Bucket Quest and I couldn't remember so I special ordered it and guess what I had read it. My problem being my grandson gets his love of si-fi and fantasy from me and takes them as soon as I am done. He is another Anthony Lover. Chatt with you again soon. Mary

LadyMerry -Mary, I was remembering that the book had something like that in it. Not very nice to think of, that is for certain.

I've done that too, buying a book because I thought I hadn't read it, and then coming home to see the same book sitting on the bookshelf. I keep promising myself that I will make a database of all my books on the computer so that I can check for things like that. Somehow I never get around to it.

Did you ever read anything by Charles Sheffield? He writes what they call 'hard' science fiction. I have a number of books by him and do enjoy his writing.

Hi Nellie,

To be honest with you I don't know if I did. Could you tell me some of the things he has written. I tried to find him under sifi authors but couldn't, am I spelling his name right? Have you read all 7 Death Gate Novels? They were excellent and each one could stand as a story by itself, me I had to read them all. have a great day. Mary

Mary, I don't think that I have read the Death Gate novels, since the name doesn't ring a bell. Do you have the name of the author for me?

I have the following books by Charles Sheffield: The Web Between the Worlds, The Mind Pool, Hidden Variables, Divergence, Proteus, Sight of Proteus, Summertide, Transvergence, Aftermath, and Starfire.

Hi Nellie, I did read "The Mind Pool". I just had to read the name to know I had read that one. The Death Gate Series was written by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. Each book takes to you a different world and piece of the machinery to join the worlds together again as one universe. It has alot of Science for the ones who are hard core and just as much fiction to make it bearable and keep the reader going. I couldn't wait for the last one it started as a trilogy and ended up as 7. these books are well Written and the characters and worlds that they take you to are fasinating to say the least. Each Book is a world of its own. Not over lapping into the next. I wish they had added just one more. These two write well together. Have a great day. Love Mary

Mary: Thanks for the recommendation. Ihave added these names to mylist, as well as Sheffield, Nellie. My sister just adores Piers Anthony, but I am not as enthusiastic as she and you two are. To me, Connie Willis' To Say Nothing of the Dog is hilarious, but it makes others yawn. Humor is so subjective, isn't it?

Mrs. Watson, yes humour is very subjective. Although I found To Say Nothing of the Dog to be just as humourous as any of the Xanth books.

I've got one of my old favourites Hiero's Journey by Sterling E. Lanier up as book recommendation of the week. Hereby a bit from the backcover of the book:

Per Hiero Desteen was a priest, a telepath -and a highly trained killer. Together with his great riding moose and the young bear who was his friend, he was on a mission that seemed beyond even his extraordinary powers.
Hiero's task was to locate and bring back a lost secret of the ancients which might save the humans who were ruled by the Abbeys. But his path lay through the very heart of the unknown territory ruled by the Unclean and their hordes of mutayed, intelligent, and savage beast followers.

This is a good read. I don't think the author is well known, nor was he a prolific writer. According to the author's blurb at the back of my book "When he was an editor at Chilton in the 60s he published Frank Herbert's Dune..." and he is/was also a well known sculptor who has his work displayed at the Smithsonian and other museums.

Another book by Lanier Unforsaken Hiero is also good.

Hello Mrs Watson and Nellie. Yes, I do believe humor is like beauty in the mind of the beholder. I to have read To Say Nothing of the Dog and found it a chuckler. How ever have either of you read Splitting Heirs. I can't remember the author . Wish I could, would like to get it again. It has to be the single most helaroius book in this vein I have ever read. If you know the book or the writer please let me know. It is ok if you don't care for Anthony. A lot of people have trouble following his xanth books because of the puns.Did you ever try any of the Adept books by him. This man is good at most of his taletelling but I do not care for his horror stories. Hope to hear from you soon Mary

You startled me, I did'nt think anyone other than myself had ever read Laniers three books. Loved them each time I read them.

Mary, yes I've read the Adept series by Anthony. Have you read his Tarot series that takes place on a planet called Tarot?

Brian, I only have the two Hiero books. Can you tell me what the title of Lanier's third book is? I wish he had written more because his books are enjoyable to read.

Lanier's name is on my list. Thanks.

Hi Nellie and Mrs Watson, Yes Nellie, I did read the Terot series.I like the stuff he writes on his own but some of his personality seems to get lost when he teams up with others. On a more serious vein I just finished "Blue Gold"by Clive Cussler,and "A Friend Of The Earth" by T.C. Boyle. Both of these books have their moments but Blue Gold was riviting in that it can happen but that is what makes great si-fi isn't it. It is about an attempt to control the Earths fresh water supply and the NUMA team trying to stop them,and a Goddess in Venezula that changes the course of history. In A Friend of the Earth. you travel back and forth between time periods when the ecologists were trying to save the trees and in the future to try to save the animals and one mans fight to survive when his only daughter becomes Martyr to the Trees. They are both exciting if you get a chance check them out. Mary

Nellie, it has been so many years ago I can't remember the title. I had it in one of 60 or so boxes of sci-fi and fantasy I recently gave away and or sold. I couldn't bring myself to look at the contents because I would have never gotten rid of any of them.

Hay Brian, I can sympathize with that, I live in an apartment and have books scattered everywhere just can't seem to part with old friends. Mary

Brian: I got rid of 40 boxes of books several years ago, and I still find myself looking for something that is prbably gone. I'll never do that again!

LadyMerry, I've marked down those two books. Yes, the posibility that it could happen makes any science fiction story exciting. I like to think that all the stories I read could happen. I also like to put myself right in the story with the characters. Do you all do that too?

Brian, you were smart not to look at those books before getting rid of them. I plan, once in a while, to give some books away; but then I look at them and can't part with a single one. So I decided that I'll let others handle the 'getting rid of' after I die.

Mrs. Watson, I've given away a lot of books over my lifetime and I still keep thinking of books that I had and which I would love to read again. I was recently thinking of an old SF book that I liked -The Purple Cloud by M.P. Shiel and if I still had it I would read it again. Maybe one day they will provide the text of books like that for download from the net for a fee. Hmmm, I wonder if Alexlit has it?

I found the one book I was missing from the Dune series yesterday: I needed Chapterhouse Dune to make the series complete. Now I'll have to read the whole series from the beginning again

I'm reading the Hiero series. Interesting that Lanier was responsible for publishing Dune. I can still recall my feeling of awe as I read the serialization in Analog. I couldn't wait for the next issue/chapter! Lanier's story really rolls along, just one brink after another.

Nellie: I love crawling into my books. We like the never ending story. I try to be come one with the story I am reading and sometimes I even think of how a would have done a scene differently you what if we do this instead. I always wanted to be a writer. Now I have carpel tunnel and some times I can't hold a book but you will see me going with a headset on and an audio book playing at those times. Did you ever hear of Isobelle Carmody? Are her books any good?

Mrs. Watson, I'm happy that you are enjoying the Lanier story. I find them very exciting.

LadyMerry, I had not heard of Isobelle Carmody before but I looked her up at B&N and find that she has written a series of books that sound quite good: Obernewtyn, The Farseekers, and Ashling.

HI Nellie, sorry I haven't been back for a couple of days. the wrists were giving me some trouble but it didn't stop me from listening. Just finished Moonlight by Suzanne Foster. (run of the mill cursed warewolf love story) It is rather tame by todays standards but a fun story. I ordered the books of Isobelle Carmody I'll be starting them as soon as they arrive. Untill then I will be reading Anthony's GutBucket Quest. (who ever thinks up these names????????????????) Have a good day Mary

LadyMerry, yes who does think up those titles? But with a title like Gutbucket Quest you know right away that there will be lots of humour in the book.

I'm reading Starfire by Charles Sheffield which is a follow-up to his Aftermath. In Aftermath Alpha Centauri goes nova with devestating results. In Starfire they are building a space shield to protect the Earth from the stream of heavy particles that is on its way from Alpha Centauri. The shield may not be ready in time for the deadly particles are coming faster than expected, and a dreadful discovery has been made of the possibility that someone caused Alpha Centauri to go nova and that they mean to destroy all life on Earth.

I'm not so far in my reading that I have an idea yet as to whether the cause of Alpha Centauri going nova is a powerful group of nasty aliens, or if it was someone from Earth itself.

Don't be concerned when you can't post because of sore wrists, LadyMerry. I'm happy to see your posts when they appear, but quite understand that no one can come and post all the time -and that includes you and I. I was away too, by coincidence, with computer problems; my mouse didn't want to work and as a one fingered -hunt&peck-typist doing things using just the keyboard is impossible.

Must dash off for now. Tomorrow I will have another interesting book to recommend as Book of the Week.

Marrow by Robert Reed is about an unbelievable large alien vessel that appears out of the dark between the galaxies and is soon boarded by spacefaring humans who finding it utterly deserted, decide to use it for a trip around the Milky Way galaxy. Soon many alien species have taken up residence and new discoveries are made about the strange ship. One of those discoveries is that there is a planet the size of Mars hidden at the core of the ship -that planet is given the name Marrow.

The people in this story are as close to being immortal as anyone could be. Reed does a good job of showing how immortals think and feel about the passage of time: things which take hundreds and even thousands of years to accomplish do not phase them in the least.

This is a good and exciting to read book. Other books that I have by Reed are The Bright Way and Black Milk

Desecration, by J. Jenkins & T. LaHaye is due out Oct. 30. I found it at Half.com for 17.48 (total, which includes the 2.99 shipping)!

Thank you FrancyLou!

I bought a book today by an SciFi author I have not read before -it is always dangerous when I have to wait for something in a shopping center because I inevitably end up in a bookstore. I had to wait to get my hair done and the inevitable happened LOL!

The book is In the Company of Others by Julie E. Czerneda. I'll let you all know how good or bad it is after I've read it.

Hi Nellie, Have been staying at my neices so didn't get a chance to tell you about this book. If Anthony's name had not have been on the book I would not have read it.Toward the end I only inished it because I didn't have anything else with me. It had a good story line but needed more action and less sex. The story was about a man who wanted to sing the blues and a magic guitare made from the bones of the greatest blues singer ever with a little gris-gris and magic thrown in and of course the lady love who helps him to be the best. Have to find a new book to read am going home today. Mary

LadyMerry, it sounds like I can give Gutbucket Quest a pass by. Perhaps Anthony is starting to wear out as far as stories go, specially the ones which are part of a long series. What do you think?

Have you ever read John De Chancie's Castle Perilous series? Also very amusing books.

Hi Nellie and friends, I have a must read for all of the ladies. "The Summrehouse" by Jude Deveraux. From the Book jacket "Three best friends, all with the same birthday, are about to turn forty. They plan to share the occasion together at a summerhouse in Maine, taking stock of their lives and loves, their wishes and choices. But none of them expect the gift that awaits them at the summerhouse: the chance for each of them to return their "what might have beens" into reality...... This is not your regular time travel type book as they have the choice to change to what they want and remember what had happened. Stay the same and remember, or totolly forget the past and be what they had always wanted to be. Each makes the choice but the choices will surprise you. I couldn't put this one down. Have a good day. God bless Mary

LadyMerry, that sounds like a good book. I'll keep a look out for it.

I have just started reading the book recommendation, but it is good right from the beginning so I thought I would share it.

Bright Messengers by Gentry Lee is set in the universe of the Rama stories and tells the story of Sister Beatrice, a priestess in the order of St. Michael, who sees the cloud of tiny white particles as a message from God; and of johann Eberhardt, who sees the particles as an anomaly of physics; and of the Rama Society which thinks that the particles are the long awaited sign of an alien intelligence.

Nellie that sounds almost like "dust" in the "His Dark Materials" trilogy by Philip Pullman. Have a great day, Mary

LadyMerry, tell me more about the His Dark Materials trilogy by Pullman. Sounds interesting.

I picked up a couple of new paperbacks yesterday on my outing with my younger sister. Shrine of stars by Paul J. McAuley -the third book in his Confluence series; and Colony Fleet by Susan R. Matthews.

Hi Nellie and fellow readers, His Dark Materials trilogy consists of thee books of course. "The Golden Compass" starts out in a world like ours but different as it is ruled by the Church. The members are not the religous as we know them and everyone has a counterpart called a demond that has an animal shape. The heroine finds a window in her world that lets her pass to the next alternate world. She finds the Golden Compass the by studying it and concentrating tell her where and when and who she must find. The next is "the subtle knife" the knife is in the possession of the hero and is used to kill ghosts and evil spirits like vampires. there is a village of people who are mining dust and the people here don't have demomds and don't understand them.The hero and the heroine meet up in this book and set out to find her father and the meaning of dust and why the church is tring to gain power by seperating people from theit demonds before they reach puberty. With the knife they find they can cut windows into other worlds. "The Amber Spy Glass" is the last book in it the children must make the spy glass, battle the church, journey into death. Which is another world where people who are dead because their demonds were stripped from them are in a limbo.Rescue them take them to their own worlds then learn what to do with the dust and to close the windows between the worlds. I am trying to keep the narrative short because of space but the books are well worth reading. I couldn't wait for all of them to be printed. There are angels, fairys, talking bears, magical creatures, the whole regiment is here and they are all out to restore order between the worlds. If you have the time read these. You will not be disappointed. Have a good day Mary

Thank you, LadyMerry, for that synopsis of all the His Dark Matter stories. They do sound good, and if I remember right I did see those books in the store.

I was looking through my ever growing book collection and thought that I would share some of the ones I like most. I'm just going at random with whatever one catches my eyes as I look over the bookshelves, and this morning this book caught my eyes:

The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge

From the back of the book:

Arienrhod. As beautiful as she was ancient, she ruled Tiamat, a world linked only by the Stargate to the galaxy-spanning Empire. But soon the Stargate would close, the offworlders and their high technology would be banished, Winter's rule would give way to Summer's. Arienrhod's reign -and her artificially prolonged life- would end.

This is a rich and satisfying book to be read slowly.

Lois McMasters Bujold has a new Vor book coming out! I am really enjoying the Weis/Hickman series! Thanks for recommending it!

Thanks for letting us know about the new Vor book, Mrs. Watson

Another one of my favourites today. This time one that has humour in it: The Harem of Aman Akbar by Elizabeth Scarborough. This is the tale of Aman Akbar and how a djinn procures for him three wives and then turns poor Aman into a donkey so that his three wives have to travel to the sinister land of Sindupore to lift the enchantment from their husband.

Other favourite books by Scarborough are:
Song of Sorcery
The Unicorn Creed
Bronwyn's Bane
The Christening Quest

To name but a few.

Mrs Watson, I am glad you are enjoying them. They are two of my favorite writers and together they the magic come alive. Have the new Vor book now am going to start it next.

I don't know how easy it will be to find this week's recommended book; but this is one of my top ten best liked books and I just had to share it up at the top.

A bit about Songmaster by Orson Scott Card from the backcover:

Ansset was the Emperor Mikal's beloved Songbird, the most skillful singer in the galaxy. Trained in the legendary Songhouse, he had the power to read men's hearts - and translate their emotions into unforgettable song. But he was only a boy, and the Emperor had many enemies. The people Ansset loved best would die before he learned to use his voice as a weapon. And the price he would pay for revenge would be terrible.

There are passages in this book that put tears in my eyes because of their loveliness. If you have not read it before, then I am sure you will enjoy it.

Nellie: a recommendation from you become a must read for me. You have given me such pleasure over the time I have been "talking" to you. You are on my Thanksgiving list, things/people I am thankful for. God bless you and yours this holiday season.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of you and am thankful that I found you and that I have found others who appreciate the relm of Si-Fi and Fantasy. Best wishes to all of you and remember to te thankful for the vets also today.

Mrs. Watson, thank you for thinking of me that way! I hope you are having a wonderful thanksgiving day!

LadyMerry, it is very nice to have another sci-fi and fantasy fan around. I hope that you are enjoying your Thanksgiving day!

*****************************

I was going to suggest the following fantasy books to someone at another place; but thought that I could share them here as well:

First is The Unbalanced Earth series by Jonathan Wylie
Dreams of Stone
The Lightless Kingdom
The Age of Chaos

Second is The Servants of the Ark series by Jonathan Wylie
The First Named
The Center of the Circle
The Mage-born Child

Third: two books by Gabriel King (a two book series)
The Wild Road
The Golden Cat

Fourth: a series by Dave Duncan (I may not have these in order)
The Magic Casement
Faery Lands Forlorn
Perilous Seas
The Emperor and Clown

Fifth: a trilogy by Tom Deitz
Soulsmith
Dreambuilder
Wordwright

Sixth: two singletons
Hart's Hope by Orson Scott Card
The Dragon and the George by Gordon R. Dickson

Seventh: Circle of Light series by Neil Hancock
Greyfax Grimwald
Faragon faringay
Calix Stay
Squaring the Circle

Eighth: Wilderness of Four series by Neil Hancock
Across the Far Mountains
The Plains of the Sea
On the Boundaries of Darkness
Road to the middle Islands

Ninth: two singletons by Neil Hancock
Dragon Winter
Fires of Windameir

The books by Neil Hancock are good, but I don't know how easy they will be to find. It might be a real challenge.

Just dropping in to ask 'how is everyone doing? Busy with Christmas shopping yet?

I thought I might leave another title of an old favourite. It is More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon. I've always liked this story about a group of people, each of whom has a special gift in the realm of esp, who together form a totally new human.

I'm going to put together a wish list of books that I don't yet have but would like to get at some point or another. Do you have a wish list?

I love that book! I remember reading "And Baby Makes Three" in Analog, I guess, and the idea was so charming. Then the book came out, and more than lived up to the promise of the earlier story. Thanks,Nellie, I'll have to dig that one out and reread it. A wish list sounds like fun. I'll give it a try.

Hi Nellie, I am working on a wish list of books for the children and grandchildren to get me for christmas. There are so many i would like to have I don't know where to start. Have a lot of things to do for the holidays. I want to get the things I have to mail ready first then I will decorate. It is just hard to get in the spirit when it is 60 degrees out. How do people in the south do it without snow? Have a great day Love Mary

Mary: From the sunny San Francisco Bay Area, I might ask, how do people in the north do it with snow? Haha.

Mrs. Watson, I had More Than Human out while I was posting about it and next thing I knew I was reading it again. I have to be careful with the book since it is just a paperback from back in 1968! LOL it only cost 75 cents -says so right on the cover. That is sure a far cry from the $9.99 cnd. plus tax that I pay for most paperbacks now.

LadyMerry, did you get snow yet to put you in the Christmas spirit? We've got lots here!

Mrs. Watson, I think that "it" is usually done in the warmth of the inside of one's home so snow is no problem, LOL!

I haven't made my wish list as yet but I know it will be a long one

Nellie: Hahaha! My wish list will start with the rest of Kay Kenyon's books; I just finished Tropic of Creation. Wow, that woman can write! ALso, Mary, the rest of the Weis-Hickman Death Gate series. More great writing. Nellie: Hope to find Broca's Brain on my next used book store expedition.

Mrs. Watson, Kay Kenyon does write good stories and I wish there were lots more of them for me to read.

I've got a growing wish list in progress:

The Wooden Sea by Jonathan Carroll
Terraforming Earth by Jack Williamson
Declare by Tim Powers
Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card
Passage by Connie Willis
Silver Moon, Black Steel by Tara Harper
The Redemption of Athalus by David and Leigh Eddings
The Amber Spyglass by Philip Pullman
The Golden Compass by Philip Pullman
The Subtle Knife by Philip Pullman
The Black Jewels Trilogy by Anne Bishop
Hope's End by Stephen Chambers
The Song of the Swan by Arthur D'Alembert
Gravity by Tess Gerritson
The Black House by Stephen King and Peter Straub
The Stars Dispose by Michaela Roessner
The Stars Compell by Michaela Roessner

And I want the following photography books!

The National Geographic Photographic Field Guide by Peter K. Burian and Robert Caputo
John Shaw's Closeups in Nature by John Shaw
Complete Digital Photography by Ben Long
How to do everything with Your Digital Camera by Dave Johnson
The Art of Digital Photography by Tom Ang.

LOL I told you my list is lengthy! I'll probably find tons more books that I want to have.

I think I"ll save your list. I haven't heard of any of those books and here I am a sci fi lover.

Claire

Hi Winsum! What books do you have and what type of SF do you like to read? Any favourite authors?

I started rereading Greg Bear's The Forge of God. The disappearance of Jupiter's moon Europa caught me all over again

Hi Nellie, what kind of sci fi -- ??? the kind that feels plausible, as if it were really possible, i.e. Tom Clancy 's highly technical and made up but based on fact. The CIA was all over him. just started another jStephen King book that's been waiting roe me for a few months on my shelf. I collected a bunch from the book sharing discussion we have here. . . also HORRER which sounds plausible. catcha later, (S) Claire

Hi Nellie, I read all of the Greg Bear books. you can't read Fordge of God without Anvil of Stars. Winsum have you read any of Clive Cussler's books. I just finished Valhalla Rising. His work is becoming a fast favorite of mine. Give him a try if you like true to life veryyyyyyyyyyyyyy possible Si-fi. Have a good day. Am reading Take a Thief by Mercadese Lackey right now have 2 chapters to go it is a relly good one. Hope to see more of her books on wish lists. Have to go promised myself no baking cookies untill I finished this book. have a Great Day and a better night. Love Mary

Mary: Clive Cussler is a guilty pleasure of mine. I can't put his books down. Loved Valhalla. What a twist at the end!

winsum, you are just the opposite of me when it comes to reading science fiction because I love the really implausible stuff; although I read all of it.

LadyMerry, I have Anvil of Stars too and will reread that after I finish Forge of God. I'll have to look up Mercedes Lackey -I have heard of her-and see what titles of her's I can add to my wish list. Take a Thief will be on it, naturally!

Hi Mrs. Watson! I have one or two books by Clive Cussler but can't recall the titles right off.

This week's recommedation is Colony Fleet by Susan R. Matthews.

This is a story of plans gone awry. A fleet of asteroid ships has been launched towards the stars; towards five earthlike worlds that would be settled by an homogeneous mixture of creators, facilitators, workers, and inteligensia. All would live together in harmonious equality.

But four hundred years later things have changed; there is no longer equality between the colonists. Now there is a ruling elite known as the Jneers (Engineers), and their servants the Oways, and the lowly Mechs. This is the story of Hillbrane Harkover and of how she loses her place in her elite Jneer caste and is exiled to the Mech ship DeeCee; where she learns that neither people nor things are as she believed them to be.

Another good enjoyable book to read.

a life long trekki and currently THE X FILES even though it's in reruns. I missed it the first time. . . scarey stuff. for light hearted sci fi (not quite) Ally McBeal. Been watching more tv than reading books lately and doodling along with the TV. Some of my doodles are decidedly sci fi.

Mary thanks for the reference will check on it. I just paid a two dollarrare library fine though, for only one day. But if they have Clive Cussler I'll chance it. The book exchange here might have something by him too.

Claire

Nellie: Didn't Susan Matthews write a trilogy a while back that you recommended? I remember that the story was complelling, even though it was very dark. She has a unique way of looking at things. WIll have to check this one out. As for TV, we like The Pretender, Stargate, the new Star Trek, and all the old ones too. Another one about psy stuff, can't remember the name, has Matt Frewer. It's good!

Winsum, you are a fellow Trekkie! What do you think of the newest series Enterprise? I watch The X-Files, Andromeda, Earth: Final Conflict, Lexx, Stargate: SG-1, Roswell, and 24 -the last is not really sci-fi but is very good.

Mrs. Watson, are you thinking of Psi Factor? You are thinking of the Matthew's trilogy about the fellow who worked as a torturer. I find Matthews to be very good with character and it is no different in Colony Fleet. Another book of her's that you might check out is Avalanche Soldier -again a story that is character driven. Interestingly both Colony Fleet and Avalanche Soldier have strong female characters as the main protagonist.

I'm dropping off a link to a hoax warning from Symantec:

Symantec sulfnbk.exe hoax information

Hi Everyone, Been buisy, buisy, buisy. (first) Take A Thief if you like the herold mage books you are going to like this one, I don't think I ever read of a least likely hero than Skif. He was amusing and loveable, you could actually feel sorry for this character. He learned to be a master thief and thought he was stealing a white horse and it was his Companion. The Companion ended up stealing him and taking him for the ride of his life. This is a fun read. For those who are still waiting to find out about Isobelle Carmody. I just finished the first 2 of het books in her futuristic trilogy with no name that I can find.

the first book is "Obernewtyn" In this book we meet Elspeth who is to be the savior of man kind. she is a misfit. Misfits are people who have esp powers after the great white. Obernewtyn is a farm where they send misfits to experiment on them to see if they can find the old time machines. The anilams have a prophsy that the seeker will come to find the machine and if she fails the second great white will be total distruction of earth. In the second book "The Farseekers" we find Elspeth recovering from injuries recieved when she destroyed one machine and saved Obernewtyn now the council is out to destroy it and the misfits as possible dangers and sedationists. The misfits set out on a Quest with three objectives. To find an old time library. Find a misfit with stronger mind talents than any other and set up a spy in the base of the Council. If caught the penelty will be death by burning. I could tell you the whole story but then why read it. If you like books like firestarter or scanners you will like these. i can't wait for the last book "Ashling" It is on the top of my wish list along with the Last Herold Mage. I grew up with Star Trek and Blue Book. I am addicted to all the star Trek series as well as Tec Wars but mostly I love the movies. Cant wait to see Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. Loved the books so know the movies will be great. Hope you all have a Merry Christmas. Love and Holiday wishes to all. Mary

LadyMerry, I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas and the happiest of New Years!

Nice reviews of some good sounding books

I have tickets for The Lord of the Rings tomorrow afternoon and will be going to see the movie then.

Hi, all. I'm the victim of a crazy, mixed-up hard drive and so am borrowing someone else's puter just to say hello, Merry Christmas, and I miss SeniorNet! Love, Jackie

Thanks Mrs. Watson. I hope that your mixed up hard drive will soon be in its right mind again and give you no more trouble.

Funny how the machines in scifi stories seem to work perfectly for the most part.

Bought two books today: one is The Lord of the Rings with all three books of the trilogy together in one book -I needed a new copy because the books I have from '78 are giving up the ghost and dribbling out pages as I read. I also discovered that there is a big series of ten to twelve books all on the history of Middle Earth put together by Christopher Tolkien from his father's notes.

The other is Reflections on Middle Earth and contains essays by various fantasy writers on how Tolkien influenced their art.

The Book of the Week -or to be more truthful: The Book of the Month- is At Winter's End by Robert Silverberg, and its sequel The New Springtime

From the back of the book:

For 700,000 years the falling death-stars have locked the Earth in an endless winter of sorrows. For 47,000 generations Koshmar's tiny tribe has survived beneath the ice. Now prophecies proclaim the time has come to emerge and inherit the lost ruins of a new world.

And from the back of The New Springtime:

The People came forth from eons of ice to rebuild the world... But the horrifying insect hjjks-led by an immortal telepathic Queen-also wish to rule the New Springtime, and they are learned, united, and powerful, while the People are ignorant, tribal and split into warring factions...

I looked at these books and remembered how good they were, and of course started rereading them.

I hope you have all had a nice Christmas day

I just found this discussion. Since I haven't read all the back posts, but loved reading the authors of the Golden Age. My favorite author from that period is A. E. Van Vogt.

Welcome Ginny Ann! What books by A.E. Van Vogt do you have and which is your favourite?

My favourite -much read and reread-is The Voyage of the Space Beagle.

I like a lot of the authors from the golden age too. First there is Asimov and I have a lot of his books; and there is E.E. Smith who wrote the Lensman series and the Skylark series. Who else is there from that period?

I wish everyone a Happy New Year!

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONe!!!!! Just finished A book and I had to tell you about it. "Forever" by judith Gould. Judith is not normally considered a si-fi writer but this book is in the genere on Clive and Koonz. That is what makes it so good and so scarey at the same time. Ask your self what adopted children, a biography writer and a deceased vocolist. all have in common then read the book. You will love it. Have a Good New year and remember to pray for my Heros the vets. Mary

I am not sure I still have an Van Vogt books left. I should sill have some by Simiak and Heinlein. My oldest son also liked Sci/Fi and I gave him my books. However, he still stores much of his stuff here, so Iwill have to look to see what I can find.

An author that I like from todays Sci/Fi contributors is Morgan Llywelyn. Her Silverhand is a terrific read. I own the second of the trilogy and may still have the first one, which is Silverhand. The second one is Silverlight Anotther author who writes Sci/Fi is Glenna McReynolds. Her Prince of Time is one of my 'best reads' of 2001.

Viehl has a new Stardoc out. something Ball, A great read. Robin Hobb (Ship of Destiny) and Anne McCaffrey (Skies of Pern) also have new PBs, which I have but haven't read yet.

LOL you've all made me add to my list of books that I want to read!

Hello LadyMerry, nice to see you again!

Ginny Ann, you just mentioned another favourite author of mine: Simak. His City is on my top ten list of science fiction books. Of course I like Heinlein too and his Time Enough for Love is somewhere on my list.

I haven't heard of either of the newer authors but shall give them a try as I do like to see what new authors can surprise me with.

Hello Mrs. Watson. I've been waiting for the Robin Hobb book to come out in paperback. I wonder if the next to latest book in Tad Williams' Otherland series is out in paperback yet? There is one more series I'm waiting for the next paperback version in -the one by George R.R. Martin...but I can't come up with the name of the series.

Just a thought to ponder and a question to answer: do you think that the future, which we have somehow ended up in, is anything like that depicted in science fiction books or movies like Space Odyssey 2001?

Nellie: It is amusing to realize, as your question made clear, that we are past "2001". What a hoot. That dreamy sequence, on the ship to the moon, compare that to our brave astromauts in the space station. I guess this is as close as it gets! That would be a fun list, what elements from science fiction have become reality. Brave New World's 16 and 32 identical clones? Ha! Even Dick Tracy's wrist radio-does a cell phone count?

I think they have computers that fit on the wrist - pretty close !!!

Mrs.Watson, maybe we are not far enough into the future yet for the things envisioned in science fiction stories and movies to exist. Mind you, I don't think that sceience fiction writers necessarily set out to predict the future. But I remember as a child back in the early 1950's reading magazine articles that would tell about all these wonderful things that would exist in the future; but somehow none of the things those articles predicted we would have, have come to be-we don't have flying cars or fully automated houses or robot servants. And for some reason I cannot recall that any of those articles spoke of everyone having their own computer; although I suppose an automated house could count as one.

If I live to be exactly 100 years old then I will live until October 8 2044. A lot can happen between now and that time.

I picked up a book that had been held in reserve for me. I don't remember asking for it, but it sure looks interrresting. Has anyone read A Red Heart of Memories by Nina Kiriki Hoffman?

Well folks, I'll tell you. We all laughed at Max Smart's shoe phone and shoe bomb and look at what we have in the news. My grandson got a wrist tv for christmas and granted it isn't color but I am sure with time it will happen. All the tecnology around us was yesterdays si-fi and just to set the record straight we don't have flying cars yet but there are real hover cars in existance. Just started reading "Ascending" by James Alan Gardner about a race of people made of glass. Looks interesting. Have a great weekend. Looks like some snow for us. Remember my heros the American vets. Mary

Ginny Ann, I've not read A Red Heart of Memories. I think there are more books being printed than I will ever have the time to read LOL!

Hi LadyMerry, you also bring along the titles of interesting books!

I do mark down every book mentioned because I will never know when I might run into one and then of course I grab it.

Nellie I am seriously thinking of boxing up all my si-fi and sending it to you. I live in an apartment and am running out of room for all the new ones I want to read. I have "Legacy of Drow" laying here on my desk and keep promising myself to read it as soon as I finish all the smaller ones here. Has anyone read it. Looks good, but can't find any reviews on it. I know it is from the Forgotten Realms collection. If you don't hear from me for a while you will know I have started it. Have a great Day. Pray for the vets. Mary

Mary check this out - might be what you are looking for. Page down for the reviews. It sounds great!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786918004/202-8163509-3546213

LadyMerry, I have the same problem as you: too many books and too little room. My house is very tiny and four other people live in it as well.

I checked out FrancyLou's link (Thanks FrancyLou) and Legacy of Drow sounds good. I expect that it will soon be read

Let us know how good it is after you are finished.

Viehl's latest StarDoc is called "Shockball".

Thanks Mrs.Watson!

More things to add to our book's wish list

These came via an email newsletter I get:

Vitals by Greg Bear
Details by China Mieville
A Fatal Exception Has Occurred At...by Alan Dean Foster

I have quite a few books by Foster and enjoy his writing style. Any one else read him?

I went to my data base of books read and saw tha I have read Allen Dean Foster'sThe I Inside. His name was familiar enough to me, so I may have read more of his that have not been added to my personal Books Read Data base.

Ginny Ann, do you have a special program for your books read database? I would sure love to start something like that.

I have The I Inside too. I'll have to check on my bookshelves to see what other titles I have. If I remember right another one I have is Slipt.

I am using the data base that came with Microsoft Works 2000. It has a template for inventoring a personal library. Before computers I used to keep the titles of the books I had read on notebook paper with a page for each letter of the alphabet. Since I gave up my old Mac LC3 I am tackling the job of entering all the book info I had stored on it to my current pc. What a job! But it is a labor of love because I love books and reading so much.

Good luck with getting one started.

Thanks Ginny Ann! I have Works sitting on my computer but don't know the version. I'll have to check it out and get started on listing my books...

...after I organize my digital pictures LOL!

Here are some of the books by Alan Dean Foster that I have:

For Love of Mother-Not
The Tar-Aym Krang
Orphan Star
Bloodhype
The End of the Matter
Flinx in Flux
Quozl
Cachalot
Codgerspace
Cat-a-lyst
Dark Star
With Friends like these...
Who Needs Enemies

The book of the week -or better said, the book of the month-is Pamela Sargent's The Shore of Women

From the back cover of the book:

"A catastrophic nuclear war has destroyed civilization, and women have rebuilt a new world on the ruins of the old. They live secluded in vast, walled cities, controlling all science and technology, dtermined to keep men from ever regaining the power to destroy the Earth. Here love between the sexes is strictly forbidden, procreation is an impersonal biological duty and men roam the wilderness in nomadic bands, worshipping the psycho-kinetic images of females as goddesses."

Bantam Books 1987

This book is in some ways similar -certainly the idea of men and women living separate lives is the same- as Tepper's The Gate to Women's Country; but the treatment of the idea is totally different. Of the two books I think that this may be the better one.

If you can find it, I'm sure that you will enjoy reading this book.

I added to my pile of new books to be read today with the following books:

Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card
Ship of Destiny by Robin Hobb
The Skies of Pern by Anne McCaffrey
Dreamcatcher by Stephen King

Nellie: Just finished Pern and SHip. Pern was fun, but SHip is so intense, it was hard leaving it when I closed the book. Let me know how you like them. Happy reading!

Thanks Mrs. Watson! LOL I don't know yet which book I'm going to read first!

Since I was holding off on reading Hobb's Mad Ship until I had the final volume in the trilogy; I'm reading that first.

I also read the first chapter of each book with the exception of Ship of Destiny to get some idea of the feel of the book.

The new book of the week is one of my older favourites and here is a bit from the back cover of the book:

"Allelliph. She was as beautiful as her name. She left her peaceful planet for her coming-of-age, and love was to lead her as far as it was humanly possible to go.
To the Universe's dark heart. To the dying, drifting man-made world that had once been the jewel of the galaxy...to the wondrous lost planet that held a secret and a power beyond all imagining.

This is very much the type of adventure and discovery story that I tend to like.

****************

I'm almost finished with Mad Ship which is very good and then I'll start on Ship of Destiny.

Mrs.Watson, I'm reading Ship of Destiny now -about halfways through-and a lot is happening. Very good book!

Hi all, I know it has been a while but a lot is going on. I just finished Ashling and don, know if i should be disappointed or scream. The plot is thickening but the trilogy has now been expanded so the end is not in sight yet. Ashling is great though if you read the first two you have to read this one to keep from getting lost with all the new characters and mental abilities. Athe end of ashling Elspeth is traveling in the world and trying to find the meaning of her Ashling (dream) and Poor dragon is in a self induced coma. Hope the next book comes out soon I have to know what happens next. What is the connection between the Gypsies and the technoguild and will Dragon wake up? this so frustrating. Have to run. have a good day. Mary

Hello LadyMerry, very nice to see you again! Ashling sounds like a good book even though it leaves you with a lot of questions. Can you tell us who wrote the book?

If you have not read them yet I highly recommend the Liveship Traders series by Robin Hobb. The books are: Ship of Magic, Mad Ship, and Ship of Destiny.

Hi Nellie, Sorry about that. call it anxiety about the story. "Ashling" is book 3 in the Obernewtyn series by Isobell Carmody. I guess it is as Piers Anthony said "Some stories are just to big for a trilogy" If you start reading these you will become hooked on Carmody's writing and storytelling ability. She just has that way of leaving you wanting more. I have a feeling that this author will be around for awhile. Have a great day. Mary

Thank you, LadyMerry!

I like to try out new authors and recently I bought In The Company of Others by Julie E. Czerneda. I began reading it and must say it is quite good.

Today I added a couple of paperback science fiction books to the Book Exchange. I haven't read them. They are brand new. If anyone is interested, Click Here for my post.

Thanks Marjorie! I see someone already got them

For everyone who is interested in Sci Fi, I am proposing a discussion of Bradbury's The Martian Chronicles.

Jane DeNeve "---Proposed Discussion: The Martian Chronicles~ by Ray Bradbury~TBA" 2/25/02 4:50pm

Nellie, the next time you have a discussion group eamil me so i can be there i love to chat with otheres who have read the same books I have and discover what their likes and dislikes are aabout a character, story etc. have a good Day. Mary

I certainly will LadyMerry.

Have you read any interesting books lately?

A visit to the bookstore netted the following finds:

Reunion by Alan Dean Foster -a new Flinx and Pip novel. Here is how the story opens:

"When bad people are chasing you, life is dangerous. When good people are chasing you, life is ackward. But when you are chasing yourself, the most simple facts of existence become disturbing, destabilizing, and a source of unending waking confusion."

I like the Flinx books anyways, but reading that opening paragraph sure grabbed me. I always read the opening paragraph of a book before buying because I know when those first words get me, that I'll love the book.

I also got Beholder's Eye by Julie E. Czerneda -I was impressed by the other book of her's that I just finished.

And I got the sequel to another book I have: Double Full Moon Night by Gentry Lee.

Finally, I picked up a book by an author I have not yet read: Ascending by James Alan Gardner.

I went out with my youngest sister today and found four books which I had been looking out for:

Passages by Connie Willis

The Fresco by Sheri S. Tepper

Maximum Ice by Kay Kenyon

Eternity's End by Jeffrey A. Carver

Passage by Connie Willis is a book I enjoyed a lot. Here is a bit about it:

From the Publisher
A tunnel, a light, a door. And beyond it ... the unimaginable.

Dr. Joanna Lander is a psychologist specializing in near-death experiences. She is about to get help from a new doctor with the power to give her the chance to get as close to death as anyone can.

A brilliant young neurologist, Dr. Richard Wright has come up with a way to manufacture the near-death experience using a psychoactive drug. Joanna’s first NDE is as fascinating as she imagined — so astounding that she knows she must go back, if only to find out why that place is so hauntingly familiar.

But each time Joanna goes under, her sense of dread begins to grow, because part of her already knows why the experience is so familiar, and why she has every reason to be afraid.

Yet just when Joanna thinks she understands, she’s in for the biggest surprise of all — ashattering scenario that will keep you feverishly reading until the final climactic page.

It kept me turning the pages to find out what was going to happen next.

I don't often read fantasy but I just finished a book I thought I would mention here. Daughter of the Forest is the first of the Sevenwater trilogy by Juliet Marillier. This is her first book and I found it very engrossing. I like her style. I am finding it difficult to describe my response to this book. I liked the images she painted with her words. There were a lot of tales/legends told by a few of the main characters. The story of the book became a legend for the next generation.

The cover reminded me of Mists of Avalon. The book is very different. Daughter of the Forest centers on healing where the other book seems to me to be more about battles and maneuvering.

I just started the second in the trilogy and it, apparently, is about the next generation. The second book is Son of the Shadow.

Marjorie, thanks for letting me know about what sounds like a good series of books! I have marked it down in my 'good books I want to get and read' notebook.

The Fresco by Sheri S. Tepper is one of the most fun books I have read lately.

In it Benita Alvarez-Shipton, a soft-spoken bookstore manager is approached by a pair of aliens and given a message of peace to take to those in power; and she becomes the sole intermediary between the alien Pistach and the human race.

The Pistach have come to offer Earth a membership in a Confederation of Worlds, but first the human race must become more 'neighbourly' and how the aliens go about helping humans become such is an utter delight.

I think that any Tepper fan will enjoy this, and so will others!

Hi Nellie and all my si-fi friends. You probably have given me up for lost but not so. I am still here and still devouring every si-fi book I can get my hands on. Today I would like to share with you Rescue Run by Anne McCaffrey. This is how it starts out. The distress call was sent by Pernese settlers who were experiencing their first Threadfall. A federation ship answered the call-but not until 49 years later.....I am sure anyone who read Pern knows the settlers are never rescued but this is definately not what you would expect from a rescue mission. Give this book a look see.

Hello LadyMerry! I like McCaffrey as an author and like her Pern books so I will be sure to get Rescue Run to add to my collection.

Today I renewed my library card and picked up a few books to read: Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler; Stars over Stars by K.D. Wentworth; and The Farthest Seeking by Gayle Greeno. Sometimes I like to check out authors I've not read before by reading a library book of their's and then if I like what I read, I look into buying.

What other good books have you read lately?

HI Nellie, Haven't had much time for reading with my daughter and daughter-in-law both expecting. I am how ever still working on "The Legacy of the Drow" the book is so huge and it is slow reading but I am determined not to read anything untill I finish this. How ever for a quick read you might want to check out Dinatopia by James Gurney. Another quick read for those that have short attention spans is A Dragon-Lovers Treasury of the Fantastic. Edited by Margeret Weis. This is a collection of short stories by many of our favorite authors:Dickson,Orson Scott Card, Zelaney,Drake,deCamp, and Benford to name a few. I like keeping this on hand for those times when I need a quick fix to my fantasy realm after being in reality to long. Have a great day. God bless America and please God bless the American Vets. Mary

LadyMerry, thank you for sharing those book suggestions with us.

Just began reading The Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler. Quite good so far.

I am now reading Maximum Ice by Kay Kenyon, and it promises to be good.

Here is a bit from the publisher about it:

From the Publisher

Zoya Kundara has lived on the space vessel Star Road for two hundred fifty years. As its Ship Mother, kept alive in a state of pseudoimmortality, she has provided wisdom and counsel to succeeding generations of its crew, self-exiled survivors of earth’s great plague.

But now, to escape the ravages of space radiation, the giant starship has returned to earth, only to discover a world on the verge of extinction, its barren surface blanketed in a crystalline substance that resembles ice and that is slowly, inexorably encapsulating the planet. Zoya is chosen as emissary to this strange new earth, and now she must approach its denizens and find a suitable home for her desperate crew among the shrinking lands.

But what she finds shakes Zoya to her core: groups of humans huddled like moles in underground techno-warrens called preserves, and a pseudospiritual order known as the Ice Nuns, who seek control of the physics-defying crystals and enslave their disciples in their crazed quest for truth. For on this once green land, Ice and the science behind it are now the only God–and mastering this grand ecology of information the only higher calling. Allies are few and far between, but somehow Zoya must uncover the secrets of Ice and halt its expansion.

That is, if the snow witches don't get her first...

I thought I would do something new and look at the books I have by one author, and I will call this Author in focus.

The Author in Focus is Michael Bishop

The first book I will look at is Stolen Faces. It begins like this:

On his second morning as kommisar of the Sancorage complex on Tezcatl, the "lepers" brought Yeardance their god.
When the shaveskull apprentice came up behind his desk and touched him on the shoulder, he had been thinking of St.Croix rum and the instance of slip-fix. He'd also been thinking, for reasons that were unclear to him, of Yaeger, his birth planet. Lucian Yeardance had been recently demoted, all the way from a ship-board astrogation-and-engineering position to this anonymous kommissariat on Tezcatl....

And this from the back cover:

The Muphormers had been reduced to utter depravity. Cursed with a mutilating, leprous disease, the Long Quarantine had condemmed them to a life of hideous poverty and degradation. Or so Lucian, newly appointed kommissar had been led to believe.

The next book is A Little Knowledge. And from the backcover there is this:

2068 and America has been "saved". Shouting, shaking, speaking in tongues -fundamentalist sects rule a born-again America of domed cities and stern laws. The Cygnusians, Earth's first visitors from the stars arrive on a world swept with the fever of Revival, and they are kept hidden by the authorities until...
A compulsory municipal service in Atlanta. The preacher makes the "call" to the altar. A hinged, hourglass-eyed being starts down the aisle to be saved.