Suggestions for Book Discussions Export

Welcome everyone and thanks for all of your suggestions. Please keep 'em coming whenever you read something that you feel that others really must read - or even if you've just heard about a book that piques your interest. We promise to take all of your suggestions seriously. It takes a considerable amount of time and commitments from Discussion Leaders to put a discussion together - so we'll need to consider that aspect also. In some cases a suggestion made here will be an obvious future discussion - just from the buzz about the book from everyone. In some cases a Discussion Leader may gauge that there is at least some interest, that THEY are interested in the book, and that it would make a great discussion and take off with it. In some cases we may even have a vote, again, given available time and commitments from available DL's. We're having growing pains - but grow is what we want to do.

For example: Mating is suggested and a few of you sound interested. That could very well be a Prized Fiction selection for January. It qualifies and we've committed to a Prize winning selection every other month. East of the Mountains also seems to have some interest. It would seem that this is also a natural for discussion here on SeniorNet, given it's themes. Age of Innocence has been mentioned on and off for a long time. It keeps coming up, so obviously to offer a discussion of that would seem to make sense. Now we have a Great Books section that is "in-between" books at the moment. One of the things I'll do here also is forward your suggestions to the DL's that might be the most interested and to the discussion (History, New Fiction, Prized Fiction, Romance, Great Books, Non-Fiction, etc.) where it would make the most sense for them to be offered. Anil's Ghost and The Mourner's Bench - also good suggestions. And Jim's suggestion of Kingsolver's new one also has something going for it. It was suggested awhile back in New Fiction - and the discussion of The Poisonwood Bible was one of the best we've ever had (in my opinion). Kingsolver has proven herself here to be a writer that engenders passionate discussion. Obviously that is important.

So, once again - thank you very much for your ideas. That's what this Discussion was opened up for. Ideas which might lead us to vibrant discussions and pleasurable reading. We won't be able to offer Discussions of all suggestions that appear here - but every suggestion will be received in the spirit with which it was given. And we'll try to provide you with forums to discuss those books YOU care about and strive to become THE best Book Discussion site on the Internet. Thanks.

Charlie

should we be voting? or continue to post some ideas? is it possible more than one book would be selected for discussion, perhaps within different subcategories?

and among the questions- i don't think i'll have to wait too long for Mating, there did not seem to be a lot of holds ahead of me, but interesting, a lot of books lost or not available- ?

Yes, YiLi , a couple of book discussions may come out of the suggestions here. If not immediately, perhaps at a later date.

Charlie

I hope that we'll have time to have a number of titles discussed/offered/suggested...and that may indeed lead to more than one discussion.

How will the voting/deciding/scheduling be done, Charlie, when the time comes?

š ...jane›

See my earlier post, jane, but another way of looking at it: Suggestions, ideas will be thrown out here and some of them may be snatched up immediately. Others may take a little time. Two or three people may express interest in a particular book and one of the volunteer DL's may become interested. That's a discussion! Five or six people may express interest in a book and we'll need to get a DL interested in that case. Suggestions will remain here and come arond again, perhaps at a better time - and with different people involved - sort of like a carousel of ideas that keep comng round in our view. We've got a number of variables: the amount of interest expressed in a book or books, the availabilty of time and energy of our volunteer DL's, or available "slots" in our on-going series (like BC Online, New Fiction, Prized Fiction, etc). So I don't see any one answer, jane. This is an admitted hybrid. We've tried other formulaic methods which were less than perfect, so we'll gice this a whirl.

Charlie

Sounds good, Charlie...

š ...jane›

[i notice that my message said "'gice' this a whirl". I've just coined that one (and you probably thought it was a typo). It means to give the roll of the dice a whirl: hence the word "gice". You all are free to use it in concersation...]
Charlie

hahaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa, Charlie!

"Gice" means to give the roll of the dice a whirl? haaaaa

I can't even think of a rejoinder!! ( I drink too much Nutrasweet.)

oh, hahahahaa

g

aside from posted interest, are there any specific things about a work that suggests it is ?discussable?, e.g. complex characters, particular theme, setting, time, political relevance, etc.

I would like a discussion on Double Victory by Ronald Takaki. One perhaps we read together chapter by chapter giving a week say for each chapter less time if people can read faster.

Carolyn

ooo what interesting posts this morning, that sounds fabulous, kiwi lady, as do all the suggestions made here so far.

YiLi Lin, that's an excellent question, I'm going to defer to our Fiction Coordinator and Originator of Original Words, the one and only Charlie Wendell, because he writes better than I do, but I would like to address one issue here this morning: the problem of honest communication.

I hope none of you were put off in any way by my own remarks on the Guterson book. That certainly was not my intent. It's very hard, when you talk about Books, and you want to be a REAL books site, to walk a line between total honesty and "making nice." If you visit Salon, you will find they pull no punches, and since we here in the BOOKS are only about our own opinions, then we have to voice those opinions. Hopefully nicely and with a nod to the opinions of others. That was my intent. Certianly the Guterson book has been nominated here many times, if we decide to read it I will certainly read it as a loyal Book Club Online member and since I usually disagree with the critics I will probably love it, but if something has been said, we do need to voice it.

We here are dedicated to providing a safe, friendly environment in which the true reader can speak his mind about any and all books, and the ideas in same, whether his opinion is positive or negative, he needs to be able to cordially express it.

Need I once again mention we are always listed in the top 5 bookclubs on the Internet, and now SN itself, this site, is listed in the top 5 in Time Magazines new Digital issue. There is a reason for all this, and it's, to a large part, YOU. In the Books sites, YOU make the difference, your literate intelligent opinions are what counts, positive or negative (but always cordial and always sticking to the issue and not the person posting that issue).

THIS nominating area is really the place where, if somebody has misgivings about a particular title, it's important to voice them. In the last four years , having read more than 150 books together, we as discussion leaders often find ourselves saddled with a dog.There's no other way to put it. What happens then is that the readers, disgusted, or disappointed in the book, say to themselves, "life's too short," and move on, leaving the poor DL talking to self.

This has happened many times. That does not mean that we should not read a book which has been panned (who are the critics to say, anyway?) I ususally never agree with a critic in the first place, but it DOES mean that we must somehow find a way to be honest about what we've heard and take that into consideration.

We may put a disclaimer or two into the heading next week, stating essentially that we do welcome all nominations and comments thereon, and that you should feel free to say if you want to read a book or if you don't and why. Let's keep on aiming for that gosl.

ginny

Big News!!

First reported by our own Ella Gibbons and seconded by Maryal, TIME MAGAZINE has named SeniorNet to it's
Top Ten Websites!

WHEEE!!

Look look and you will actually SEE the word "literature!" Proud of Time, proud of you all, proud to be associated with the BEST, SeniorNet, which is mentioned more than once, back with the other mention shortly!

ginny

YiLi - That's probably a discussion in itself. All of those things that you mention certainly would help to generate good "book-talk". But in some ways it's hard to put your finger on it. Sometimes it can depend as much on who is in the discussion as much as on how the author handles characters, develops relevant themes, etc.

Thanks, Carolyn for that suggestion, also.

And, Ginny - good points as always.

Charlie

With the publicity we are getting maybe one of the considerations for a good book to discuss would be one that would attract some new people to the discussions.

I think the club sometimes over extends itself with so many books under discussion and a limited number of discussants available. I know there are many lurkers and the problem is how to lure the lurkers into the discussion.

I'd suggest cutting back on the number of "insider" comments- that is comments directed to the regular stable of discussants that tend to make lurkers feel like outsiders. This is really a minor problem- but it is a problem.

I'd also like to suggest that Kingsolver's new book would be a good one to catch lurkers with.

Jim - I would tend to agree with your "insider comments" statement. But could you tell me what you mean by that? Please e-mail me if you'd rather. I'd appreciate the feedback.

I think you mentioned a PB edition upcoming for the Kingsolver earlier. Did you see a tentative date somewhere?

Charlie

Ginny- great post! I have been and certainly expect to continue to be involved in many discussions where we don't all hold the same opinions. To me that's discussion. I have never yet seen a post that was rude or insensitive where i've been. In fact, often I see people over-extend themselves when disagreeing to be particularly sure no one takes offense. And this is good. We all live in different regions with different mores and bring unique experiences and viewpoints to these discussions- it is great. I think what happens sometimes is when it is ones own opinion disagreed with, that disagreement evokes a lot of personal stuff that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand and we set up our defenses as if under attack. I believe that we do keep a supportive environment here and those who are having a bad day, feeling slighted or whatever would benefit from seeing this "place" as a respite from whatever goes on outside of here and hopefully will trust all our good will toward one another.

On another note, if the site gets really crowded from all the publicity, I would suggest we think of more than one arena for books that attrack a large number of people. I think that sometimes when there are 30-50 who start out, we lose our threads and each person cannot get a feeling of participation and then drop out- what's left are the "seasoned" posters and then it looks like we've become a clique. ?

Good HEAVENS, YiLi Lin! Talk about a GREAT post! Oh what you say is sooo true and how can it be overcome? That's a real dilemma. Take, for instance the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, concluding Monday. OK there we had 25 people who were signed on and took on 5 more.

Now think for a minute on that one, if the Discussion Leader (who happened to be me) even ONLY acknowledged each person if they posted daily, and said a one phrase response, that would STILL be 25 lines in one post!

Even if the DL only said, YiLi Lin, what a GREAT point? There you are, a post with 25 lines in it. What's a discussion leader to doooo?

People tend not to want to read long posts.

Alternately, the Discussion Leader could make several constant and continual posts of only a few ideas brought up and the people bringing them up, but that would require the DL in a very popular discussion, to sit on it hourly and that's not (while exciting to think about) the way a lot of people want to go for a long discussion of a month or more.

'Tis a puzzlement, I'm happy to discuss it here, we are interested in all approaches and answers.

Thanks for your comments!

ginny

Terrific posts, all. And such a valuable discussion. Ginny, the responsibility can't ALL be on the discussion leaders to keep people feeling included. Maybe short reminders at the beginning (and middle?) of discussions---as I think I've seen you do somewhere---reminding all that responses TO each other is crucual to a good discussion. Many of us could help, by remembering to respond, especially, to newcomers.

Jim, your comment on "insider comments" is well taken. Part of feeling like an insider comes naturally from length of time participating, of having experiences with each other, but I know (or think I do) that you mean something beyond that. I know it's a little easier for most of us to respond to someone we feel we "know." The extra effort, though, to include newcomers will pay off in many ways.

Thought-- seems to me only in the beginning of a discussion do those, especially new posters look for leadership from the announced leader and feel unsure until they do get a nod from the leader. After everyone has their "sea legs" than folks feel included and Ok with chatter and recognition coming from other posters and not just from the Leader. Just like a party or meeting, until everyone is comfortable with one another and with what their role is in making the party or event successful, they look to the hostess or chairman for direction. So maybe one or two long posts are in the cards and the quicker those of us that have been around can acknowledge in our posts something from another's post the quicker we can get everyone feeling included. With all that effort though sometimes folks do not feel included unless they hear something directly to them from the one they have desided is the "leader."

According to the BN site the PB edition of Prodigal Summer will be out in November 2000 at $13.00

Now there are two very good additions to ideas for leading book discussions, the part the group plays and Barbara's suggestion for after the initial acknowledgment the group has the burden, just as Betty said, to carry that ball. I really really like that.

That way when a person made a point he would not be looking to the "leader" of the discussion to provide any sort of affirmation. After all, the "leader" of the discussion is just a member like the rest of us, with his/her own opinions and ideas, and often times people get confused about that fact, and when the moderator states an opinion, they get fussed, thinking that they have been reprimanded by the teacher, which of course is not the case. The leader of the group is there because he/she, too, wants to express an opinion about the book.

Those are two very good points, Betty and Barbara, and I sure appreciate your bringing them up. It is very useful for people who do take on the responsibility of leading discussions here (all of whom desperately want to do a good job) to know what sort of techniques make it a good experience for the group.

Great thoughts, keep em coming.

Thanks for the update on the Kingsolver, Jim, I rememeber that you saw her, I believe, when out for dinner once when we read an earlier book of hers which was one of the best books we have read here, I think Kingsolver is definitely in our future, she's SUCH a good read always.

ginny

This is somewhat connected to the above and, in my opinion, directly related to retaining newcomers. The stated age for "joining" is 50, can't remember where it's written. So many posts, though, are by people older than that, into late 60s to late 70s, and many, many posts assume that all other posters are in the same age range. Assumptions are made that most of our children have grown children, or teenage children or that our childhoods were spent during similar times.

In one particular discussion, comments were made to several of us "young people," as if we were visitors to the discussion and our elders had important things to say---albeit kindly said and respectful.

I just would like to remind everyone that "Seniors" include people who are 52, 56, 92, 74----so there is a really wide range of experiences to offer. That makes me think that we would sometimes feel banded together in experience and sometimes not at all.

Have been away plus I don't believe I have ever posted here.....Several posts back someone mentioned East of The Mountain....I read it and liked it very much.....So much that I then read "Snow" and of course liked it equally as much if not more......Both very good reading....I am allmost finished with the Atwood Book , "Blind Assasin" and will soon place it on the Book Exchange list so if anyone is interested keep an eye out.......

Hi, Nancy, welcome here and thank you VERY much for contributing to our Book Exchange, we're nearing 800 books exchanged in snail mail and that's a statistic anybody can truly be proud of. I love it, myself, and thank you for your recommendations!

Betty, AGAIN with the salient points: thank you SO much! I have a news flash for YOU, too!!!!! Guess what? We have all ages here? Would you believe our youngest Bookie is 32 years old? Would you believe we have quite a few people here in their 40's? THEY also are a bit nervous about the age thing and afraid to reveal all, so all I can say to each and every person reading this is that we HERE are a Community of Readers and we don't CARE what your age is, and Betty is right, let's make no assumptions about age, because some of our members are well into their 80's and, you know what? Half the time you could NOT tell who is the 40 year old and who is the 80 year old.

It's a true meeting of the minds, and is what it's supposed to be.

All ages are welcome here in the Books.

Great point, Betty!

ginny

There's a new book out about the largest voluntary black westward migration in the nation's history and includes stories about "Rosie the Riveter" during WWII. It is authored by Dr. Shirley Ann Wilson Moore, a history professor at California State University in Sacramento and it is entitled: "To Place Our Deeds: The African-American Community in Richmond, California 1910-1963.

Robby

BAck to voicing my thing about those jump start questions- if there is a large group, perhaps posting a few early on discussion questions - in a sort of lateral mode if you know what I mean- then some people may wish to play out as a thread an indepth discussion on that theme for awhile- each poster would have the opportunity to contribute to other threads, but if he/she wanted to concentrate on one aspect for awhile a smaller subgroup would be formed- without it being "insiders only". This would provide more opportunity for the DL to visit a thread rather than individuals and he/she could devote his/her expertise to generating questions or isolating good points from the discussion to keep the book moving.

For example, at one point in the Ancient Mariner I think there were about 13 questions or points raised, something like this could be collapsed into perhaps 5 mini-discussions. I am picturing in my mind a flow chart tree kind of thing that I don't know how to draw here..

you know box 1-- book, chapters x-y; box two 1-3 discussions items, box three etc. People would sign on and click into one of the boxes which would take them to that thread. The boxes can change content as we move through the books. So rather than a linear show all kind of thing, ....- am I making sense. anyway perhaps this would be a challenge for the technical way the board is set up. and of course, if there is not a large number of people, I would hate to see the intimacy lost....anyway rambling because I did NOT win millenium millions but hey the yankees won!

YiLiLin:

You speak of "generating questions" and "isolating good points from the discussion." That is what I have been doing for months and I was under the impression that was what all DLs do. Am I missing something here?

Robby

Whoa, Robby, if I could defend YiLi a moment.

We've all been answering some general questions from Ginny----centered around keeping newcomers, and, in general, the pros/cons of DL's carrying the entire weight of responding to 14 posters every day (time-consuming long posts), etc., etc. Before that (somewhere) Ginny wrote a wonderful post on the inevitability of different perceptions of books, during selection of and discussion of them.

Jim added thoughts on "insider comments" and Barbara, YiLi (and ?) added insightful comments on several related issues. I wondered about assumptions made about ages of posters and how "younger" seniors (and now Ginny tells me just plain younger, period) posters can feel left out---if we make assumptions about age.

Some of these comments, too, came as responses to YiLi's wondering if discussions had been/ could be chosen around themes----and what the discussion would look like if attempted.

All comments (so far, hehehehe) have direct or indirect references to the UNQUESTIONED hard work of DLs. Breathe easy.

Betty:--But this is where I become confused. If, for example, I have 14 long postings every day, I don't necessarily respond to each of those posters. I don't carry that "extra weight." My procedure has always been to let the various participants interact with each other and spend most of my time in the background unless, as indicated earlier, "generating questions" seemed appropriate or "isolating good points from the discussion." I don't believe YiLi needed defending as no one was attacking. I was merely saying that I thought this was how most facilitators avoided the "extra weight." Perhaps my assumption was wrong.

Robby

Oh, ok, thanks for explaining.

Robby - I need to post a comment to your msg above....not always do participants interact. I have noticed that. I wish there was a way to promote that.

~Marj

Yeah, I think this is a particularly valuable discussion and I wrote Charlie to apologize for sort of getting off the subject and volunteering to open a new "Feedback" discussion when he wrote and said he thought it was GREAT and so we can continue to nominate books and also give SUGGESTIONS in this BOX on how we mount our discussions and so I think this is all very valuable.

I've really been thinking over YiLiLin's ideas here of taking the threads out and making them separate little rooms. I think Charlie tried this once in the Red Tent and it seemed to work. It would seem to me that you would need lots of participants, for instance, if you started with 30 different people and they all kept UP chatting, that might be a way they could divide off and conquer, so to spesk, I think it's worth trying. But it would need more than one DL there, I think??

Robby does not let this responding to each person be a burden but relies on the participants talking to each other (which is the goal in the first place) and he's very good at what he does.

My personal preference in leading a discussion is to only post once a day. If I come in and find 30 new people posting, I personally have a lot of angst as to how I can acknowledge EACH one. The IDEAL would be for the other group members to chat amongst themselves, but as Marj says, that doesn't always happen. Maybe we need more "facilitators" (have always hated that word) in big discussions, to make sure NO person is overlooked.

BUT I have found that when I DO do the:

Betty: great point
YiLi Lin: Well said
Robby: that's interesting
Marj:I never thought of that

And so on and so on and then invite each person to expand by asking them a question ON those points, they DON'T!!!!!

They just don't. It dies. So what's the DL to dooooo?

If you don't mention them at all, then it dies too. I will never forget that Crichton book we did Timeline. My best friend was in that one and I thought I'd try a trick, so I said to myself, OK, instead of saying,

Sandy: wonderful point, then that means.....

I would talk about the IDEAS that were raised, thinking surely that each person would recognize their own ideas?

Wrong?

IN fact, my best friend actually said to me later, well, I posted and nobody answered me so I just gave up. And I said, what do you MEAN nobody answered you, I used up three paragraphs on your idea, and she said, I felt ignored.

Now there you have it.

Plus you have the additional burden of my longwindedness, look at THIS post, and so it's something we worry about because we do care, and we DO want to put on the best, most cordial most electric most meaningful discussions there are.

THAT alone is what makes this so valuable: your input.

I definitely would like to read the Kingsolver in the new year.

ginny

I believe that a DL reacting by saying; "Great point," "well said," "that's interesting," etc. is making "nothing" remarks. While I occasionally may make those comments, I try to stay away from them as they are just another way of saying: "Yes, I was here and I read your post but I have nothing to say." I try to relate to a particular point that the poster said and if I find that difficult, I say absolutely nothing at all.

Very very rarely have I had a poster say: "You didn't react to my remark." I believe that is so for two reasons:

1 - They have learned by working with me that I don't always react."
2 - I encourage interaction among the participants so that they ask each other questions rather than expect a reaction from me. There are times when I have been away from the discussion for two days and have come back to find a plethora of comments and interactions without my having to be there. I like that!! I see the job of a DL as being a facilitator, not a "leader" as is implied in the title.

Robby

From the Peanut Gallery

Oh, yes, it does matter! Ginny, when a DL writes, "Great point on the inconsistency in Chapter 3, Betty," that's often all I need to feel heard. If someone else (or the DL if particularly interested) takes the idea and goes further, fine. Any feedback at all, no matter how short, feels like a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. It also sets a model for others to follow---and many of us do. Many of us give short, one-line responses because we understand how much that means.

It's even ok if a DL writes, "Barbara, Betty, YiLi, appreciated your thoughts on the conflict between ___ and ___. I missed that."

Two recent new-ish things that two DLs have done that I thought worked particularly well and I really appreciated:

First, Charlie has been doing a short synopsis at the beginning of each new section (4 sections of White Teeth? 5?). Even more than posted questions, the synopsis has helped to orient me. I would guess that those of us that finish a book sometime before the discussion begins really benefit from these summaries. However, it looks like a lot of work to me, so it may be well beyond what a DL would want to offer. Even something as short as, "This chapter introduces the divorce, the bankruptcy, the trip to Iowa....." would be helpful.

Second, this seemed new to me, but maybe it wasn't. In Rime of the Ancient Mariner, as Ginny responded to comments and gave reactions of her own, she told us over and over that she "disagreed" with some overall proposed themes, but would hold off 'till the end to explain thoroughly. Maybe this was done for this specific piece and was specific to this discussion, but I wondered if she knew what a great model that was for all to read---not about deferring the comments but about disagreeing. I think she wrote about "disagreeing" 5 times, 10 times? The tone it set was that disagreeing is an acceptable/important? part of the discussion. Also, her straightforward but respectful choice of words modeled "how-to." That kind of example-setting is far more powerful than a rule-type reminder at the beginning of a discussion.

Robby- where I was coming from in my post was kicking around ideas to help DL's feel more comfortable handling what might be an onslaught of posters as a result of some recent excellent press for the book site. I hear you and agree that the DL's have done super jobs, at least for the discussions wherein I have participated. But I think the original concern is valid. If a book were to have 40-50 posters early on, I think everyone would benefit from tossing out some plan b's. The thinking had been when there are so many people, after awhile either threads get lost or people do not feel they have been acknowledged and that might contribute to a feeling by some that a few "insiders" carry the show.

But swinging wide here- I just finished a surprisingly amazing book- not necessarily suggesting it should be a discussed book, but wanted to share with any of you who need "more to read"

Sue Miller, The Year I was Gone.

Started off 'odd' but the writing was good enough that you just keep reading, then all of a sudden you figure hmm i think something is going to happen here, then the plot plays out quickly and rather than a tidy let's get it over, it is one of the few books i have read lately that really puts a giant punch all the way to the last page. Just so many interesting things to think about.

Books with a punch right to the end are rare, aren't they? And I love Sue Miller, I think we need to definitely consider that one. I'm reading A Certain Age by Tama Janowitz and while it's ostensibly about Sex and the City Meets the Hamptons, there is another layer underneath and her zingers just nearly knock you over, it's definitlely a book with a punch.

We appreciate all the ideas on what makes good discussions from the point of view of the group: it's very valuable feedback. (I particularly am chuffed to learn my repetitiveness has found a home!!!) Every book discussion is different, it's a living thing, and depends on the people participating to make or break it. Every DL is different, too, and everybody learns from new ideas, so it's a win/ win situation here in our Suggestion Box no matter how you look at it. Thank you all for your comments, all suggestions are welcome.

I would really someday hope we could read a Penelope Fitzgerald. The Bookstore is short and snappy but with her customary economy of words and a lot said beneath the surface. She began writing late in her 50s, and until her untimely death this spring won much acclaim, and reviewed books for the New Yorker Magazine.

We're also thinking that perhaps we might open an "Oldies But Goodies" section and actually discuss a book fondly remembered (not a Great Book) but something that didn't quite make the Great Books grade: Ferber, for instance, or Steinbeck's Travels With Charlie. It might be fun to see whether or not our old faves still appeal.

There are two books in that category I would like to revisit: Revolutionary Road by Richard Yates, and The Winter of Our Discontent again by Steinbeck.

We have a flourishing new fiction group here and perhaps we can get an "old" fiction group started. To do this we need lots of interest and participants, so don't be afraid to jump right in to any discussion you see building, you are welcome and needed, and we appreciate you!

ginny

I don't know if this would make a good discussion or not. When I was a my mother's this weekend, I picked up Alice in Wonderland. It was different than what I remembered and I didn't realize the Alice Through the Looking Glass was a different story. I didn't read that. The choice of books at my mother's house is quite limited. I was looking for something on the lighter side.

Marjorie!!! Welcome back! Hope you had a good trip! We did Alice some time ago but never the other, that's a good suggestion for those Classic Children's Lit areas, thanks!!

And we've had Guiiliver's Travels recommunded, too, great suggestions from everybody here.

WE have such a wide range of interests here in the books and we want to grow to accomodate all tastes. Even diagramming, which some of us love, believe it or not.

ginny

This is a great idea, Charlie. And, Ginny, I would love to revisit some old favorites - particularly any by Edith Wharton. ETHAN FROME comes to mind and we can all rent the movie starring Julie Harris (unless it's been done over in more recent times). I'll think of more old favorites when I go to the Library tomorrow for my weekly pleasure trip - wandering up and down the stacks and reading the authors' names . I get such pleasure just remembering. I'll admit something I don't mention often, but I browse the Large Print Books and have even brought a couple home - they are easily read in bed and it seems to me that just the good ones have been reproduced in this manner.

I love large print and Ethan Frome hooray one of my all time favorites.

Yep that Year I was Gone sure sits well for a bit- and for many here it might have appeal as we engage in the internal dialogue of a marriage- no not sappy this is really a neat book.

yeah yankees (again).

Now, YiLi. Here's a question for you. What was the last book Roger Clemens read?

Charlie the Suffering Red Sox Fan

How to Win Friends and Influence People ?

Don't want to appear pushy, but just heard from another very satisfied reader (Nick: Trish-D) about the new novel THE GRIMMS PALACE which she considers one of the best books she's ever read. That sort of commentary encourages me to remind all SeniorNet members to at least check it out on the net. If you punch up the home page for <iuniverse.com> and then get into their bookstore, you can read the whole thing for free. Of course, I'd rather have you buy the book. For questions, my e-mail is <fredbauman@peoplepc.com> Thank you

I don't know if I suggested this book before or just thought I did. A brand-new non-fiction book is Bonnie Angelo's book entitled: "First Mothers: The Women Who Shaped the Presidents." I heard her on NPR and the stories she tells are absolutely fascinating. She talks about the mothers of FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and some of the earlier presidents. I believe that this book would stimulate lots of conversation here.

Robby

Hi, Chiefphotog13, and congratulations on your book. Here's another place you might want to visit: Author's Corner where you can find other authors talking about all the things pertaining to writing and selling books.

Thanks for the suggestion, and Robby, that does look good also, I"ve seen several reviews of it.

We simply MUST read the new DiMaggio biography, I've never read anything like it. If you can get a copy of Newsweek, the October 23rd issue, read the excerpt there, you will never forget it, whether you know a bat from a ball, you'll not forget DiMaggio. I would love to read this with somebody!!!

ginny

First Mother's I love the idea! Just got a notice from the library that my reserve for mating has arrived- so hopefully tomorrow.

For those of you who want to read the piece about Joe DiMaggio that Ginny has been talking about - you can find it here:The Loneliest Hero
Charlie

I have a feeling I'd like the DiMaggio book, too, Ginny. Haven't read the link yet (will in just a minute), but even though I haven't any history as a baseball fan, I loved Ken Burns' PBS series and I loved Doris Kearns Goodwin's Wait Until Next Year. In fact, it was Burns' series that inspired me to get Kearns Goodwin's book. There is a certain nostalgia evoked when that game "was a game" that included us all. Every little boy I knew traded baseball cards. My aunt and uncle that I idolized (and wished I was THEIR kid) were baseball fanatics. Anyway, I'll go read the link.

I love how excited you get about a book. I'm looking forward to the Boukreev (?spelling?).

Oh fabulous, Betty, I'm so glad you're going to be in the Boukreev, wait till you READ that DiMaggio!!!

ginny

In the same link in Charlie's post above (the link for story on DiMaggio) is a review of Barbara Kingsolver's new Prodigal Summer. (Click on Charlie's link, then click on BACK TO NATURE) This is the second good review I've read of her book in 2 days. Someone else has recently mentioned her book, too---New Fiction folder? Anyway, the plot sounds good and the natural surroundings sound great.

Read the review, anyway, just to get to the last paragraph's sentence when the reviewer says he got tired by the end of the book of the women always being right and the men always being wrong------oh, I'll let you read the punch line.

The link on DiMaggio. Now I'm curious, Ginny---is this an authorized biography? How can it be, given how private he was? But, my goodness, all the intimate details that obviously came from very intimate, everyday friends, like what pictures were on his walls, the trophy on top his refregerator, etc.

My favorite part, of course, of course, was what was in the black plastic bag that he was carrying around after the San Francisco earthquake!!! TOO FUNNY!!! See what I mean about private details?

Oh, the BACK TO NATURE link is at the very bottom of the DiMaggio article.

My husband sort of agrees with you, Betty, but I think there must have been enough "semi friends" who were dismissed to give testimony, my husband went on about the bag, too, but didn't he then take it to the bank? I need to reread that one.

Yes, the Kingsolver looks great and I just read another huge review in Time last night, I think we'll surely have to do that one!

ginny

Charlie: I'd recommend we read any of the following novels, most of which are up for some award or another:

Sontag's In America

Ondaatje's Anil's Ghost

Atwood's The Blind Assassin

Oates' Blonde

Kingsolver's latest (I see there's a fair amount of enthusiasm for this already).

I own The Blind Assassin now, so I vote for that one.

Kingsolver, Sontag, Oates, Ondaatje----in that order. Oh, let's just read them all.

Okay if we are voting gotta say Anil's Ghost- so many layers, and so much information online to give us insights and background.

read up to page 18 of Mating- thank you whoever recommended I read this book.

Yes, the Kingsolver seems to be a must. I've never read any of Sontag's fiction, to be honest - just her critical works which are brilliant. And it must be time for an Atwood here. But is this the one?

Charlie

What an embarassment of riches - so many good books to choose from. Charlie, do you want to take a formal vote?

Did I vote yet? I'm starting to sound like Ginny, here. vote for Atwood. It oculd not possibly be it is because I have this hot little book in my hand this week, could it?

I second ALF. Or did I already?

Thanks for all of your suggestions. We have committed to offering a discussion of Prize Winning Fiction every other month. In the alternating months, we will have a discussion of a work of "New" Fiction. See the discussion heading for a list of the books mentioned so far. Vote for one book in each category (one book for January and one book for February). If I have left any out (that are appropriate for these categories), please let me know. There's no reason why you can't still nominate other books at this time also. I haven't counted any votes yet - so if you've already cast your ballot - please do so again. Thanks.

Charlie

Have belatedly found my way here, but not thoroughly digested everything that was said before.

If it is not too late now, I would like to vote for THE BLIND ASSASSIN.

I understand that THE POISONWOOD BIBLE was a fairly recent choice here; and in one of the off-line groups to which I belong we have JUST discussed it. Now, the reviews of PRODIGAL SUMMER I've seen so far are positive and seem to indicate that the new book is more like her previous books (Animal Dreams, Pigs in Heaven, e.g.) than like TPB.

Don't misunderstand, I do like her, esp. also her nonfiction essays contained in HIGH TIDE IN TUSCON, which tells much about the author herself. But might we try a different "flavor" - for want of a better word - first before returning to her so soon ?

Guterson's EAST OF THE MOUNTAINS is very good, moving in places, though quite different from SNOW...

I have not been with you very long but I do enjoy the company, the range and depth of your interests. So many books, so little time ... Traude

Traude - Not only are you not too late - you're casting the first vote for our FEBRUARY selection. Would you like to vote for, or suggest a book for our PRIZED FICTION series - the next one scheduled for JANUARY?

Charlie

January is easy---Mating by Norman Rush. A great book and one that is meant to be discussed.

February is another matter. Each blurb and list of reviews read make each one sound better than the last. How can we possibly choose? Since Mating is nicely complex and involved, I think I'll go with an intriquing sounding "mystery" Blind Assassin by Atwood. It will be a completely different pace from Mating.

Mating for January, because it is the only one I have not read, and I really, really do not want to participate in going over the other 4 again. Hated The Shipping News, though it was terribly well written misery. Disliked Age of Innocence. Adored So Big, but have read it thoroughly. Still mad at Steinbeck for the name of his book, because I had used the title as words of my own that year, using "my" instead of "our", and thought I had invented them. Was so chagrined when his book came out; I think it was Book of The Month. THEN I found out the same words were in Richard III and Shakespeare owns them. Phooey, say I, and I did not like the book much either!

The Blind Assassin for February.

Great comments, MaryPage . That's a funny story about the Steinbeck. While taking part in a discussion of East of Eden at another site, Steinbeck's daughter-in-law came on board. Whoah! Did she ever light into papa!

I'll vote for Prodigal Summer (which will be out in PB by then - next month I think). I'll pass (at least for the moment on a January vote, as I don't know if I'll be able to participate in that one.

Charlie

Prodigal Summer for Feb.

Charlie, you mean as in e.g. the Booker Prize ?

Thanks, Jim.
Traude - yes, the Booker, or any of the other major prizes (Nobel, Pulitzer, NBA< Circle Award, Whitbred, stc.)
Charlie

Jan - Mating

Feb - Prodigal Summer

Oooh what to do what to dooooo.

Okay Mating- I am reading it now and it is soooo good (but I did read the Shipping News and it is extraordinary- sometime, somehow.....)

Feb- Anil's Ghost hands down!

Sorry---I've got to go with my original thought and change my vote back to Prodigal Summer (from Atwood's Blind Assassin). I really hated the last thing of Atwood's I read and have wanted to give her another chance---some other time.

P.S. Hope While I was gone runs a close second for Feb or we think about March. Can we keep this site alive even after we vote, this might be a nice forum for informal sharing of good books and mini discussions among folks who've read the same book that is not a current discussion item???????

YiLi Lin - That's exactly what this Discussion is for and it is a permanent discussion for that reason.

betty - Changed your vote. (Don't try this on Tuesday)

Charlie

YEs, Betty, and don't sign your ballot

Thanks- did not realize that. So it is okay to expound a bit on some thoughts re these books- okiedokie.

New to or Books & Literature Discussion pages? Here's an easy way to get in on the ground floor of a new discussion: Staring December 1st, we'll be reading and talking about short srories from The Best American Short Stories 2000 collection. Check it out of the library. Buy the paperback. You can even read a couple of the stories on-line! Short stoires are....well - they're short. We'll be taking these at a very lesiurely pace through (at least) January. What better way to get your feet wet. If you've not joined us here before - this is the perfect opportunity. Check it out!! Short Story Discussion

Drop in. Introduce yourself. And join us on December 1st for one or all of the continuing short story discussions.

Charlie

Now I will hold true and not attempt to change my vote- but gotta admit Mating is starting to get on my nerves. I am not sure what it is, I think perhaps I am having trouble with a "man" depicting a woman character----- for so long---- and imbuing her with characteristics, observations and behaviors that suggest to me that he (author) is mirroring his own issues or how he thinks women see men- plus I hope "something" happens soon, something true to a woman's reflection on her experiences.

I don't think I have ever had this problem in the past, male authors I have read often have multiple characters in various stages of development- some of whom are women, or like in the book Geisha it was such a remarkable and "open" characterization I was so amazed at the sensitivity the male author used to create the character.

Is this just me?

Margaret Atwood won the Booker award for The Blind Assassin.

that one has my vote, Betty.

Me too. Can't wait for it!

I don't think I have ever had this problem in the past, male authors I have read often have multiple characters in various stages of development- some of whom are women, or like in the book Geisha it was such a remarkable and "open" characterization I was so amazed at the sensitivity the male author used to create the character.

I think these issues about how an author of one gender portrays a character of another are interesing and should form part of the discussion of a given book.

Whether concerns about this issue should determine whether we read a book or not is another issue.

As a male I can't really judge from the inside if a male writer portrays a female accuraetly as I'm not female as a great majority of discussants here are.

Attempts on my part to do this are doomed to failure (but that doesn't mean I won't try). I thought Geisha was very poorly written from this perspective and Poisonwood Bible had the opposite problem- ie a female writer not doing male characterds as well as she did female characters.

I liked Wolfs satiric novel. A Man in Fiull, we read recently and while again I can't be sure- I do think he did a very poor job with his female characters- but who knows in a satire? That doesn't mean we should not have read the book. I liked it and enjoyed the discussion we had about it- but that raises still ,another gender related issue as I think most of the women in the discussion disliked the book- and Wolfe. Still it generated an interesting discussion.

I'm not really willing to just give up judging these issues and turn them over to the female discussants because we always have the possiblity that they are reacting to the author's portrayal of the characters from the persepective of what they feel are the ideal characteristics of that gender rather than what they are in reality- which, of course, is easier for a man to judge and accurately portray. Ha.

In any case such issues as well as related issues such as a young writer's characterization of older characters, a "liberated" female character vs a subjugated one, a "macho" male vs a wimpy one, are interesting aspects of a novel to discuss. Could Truman Capote portray "real men?" I think he could and did.

Whatever- lets decide on our choices , read them, and then judge how the author did on these aspects of writing.

I agree Jim and hope you read in my post that I certainly will continue to read Mating and participate in the discussion- just sharing some preview angst.

And I am looking foward to the gender aspects in the discussion- to open that door wider, I think you have touched on an intersting aspect of what disturbs me in Mating- I wonder if it is in fact because of gender ideal expectations that the author chose to show these particular emotions and needs through a woman.

Well said, Jim, and I agree with pretty much all you wrote. Don't know about those "ideal characteristics of that gender rather than what they are in reality" section, although you finished up with a funny, so I'm not sure how much weight to give the middle section. I'll bet you agree that authentic characterization (of women, in this case) may not appear very "ideal," may, in fact, include those things not so easy to divulge or admit to (by the female reader).

What I find fascinating recently is the not uncommon occurrence that women may not like a particular book but are hard pressed to say why. It's still a fairly new undertaking---and not so easy---to say just HOW a male author got it wrong. I think I know of such things and still find it VERY difficult to explain with any clarity what's gone wrong. We faced this in the last Roth book. I had even read others' words of how he misses the mark on female characters and still found it difficult to explain myself.

Well, here's a news flash. In the book Blindness currently under discussion, the male author Saramago writes with horrific, graphic wretchedness on rape, and as I'm prepared to say later in the discussion, does justice to the brutality of rape like no male or female author I've ever read. I didn't think it was possible for any author to get it this "right," but he does. I guess I'm better at explaining how a male author gets it right than when he doesn't.

Betty------I agree about the rape scene in Blindness. What a job he does with it. The only parallel I can think of is in the film, Two Women, which initially caused me to truly understand what rape must be. Sophia Loren and a younger actress playing her daughter. Both women are raped by soldiers.

Maryal

.. I do realize that I should hold my peace until I have observed "the scene" - for some time. But I am impatient by nature. Also, I tend not to heed such precautionary warnings, however wise, where books are concerned. Instead I become passionate to the extent of even talking out of turn, as in this case. May I count on a general pardon for these transgressions.

I am not sure what the issue is here and now, other than casting a vote for the books mentioned. Jim does have a valid point, though, and I believe that there are indeed books which appeal considerably more to women than to men. One only needs to look at Oprah and her disciples. And no, I am not one of them. Conversely, there are books that appeal more to men than women and, from the reviews I read, I fear that MATING is one of the latter.

Irrespective of that, however, my own (book) plate is too full at this time to accommodate MATING. My first (and only choice so far) remains with THE BLIND ASSASSI

While I am at it, may I respond to Jim and say that I liked Tom Wolfe's MAN IN FULL, immensely. From every aspect. The portrayal of both women and men was realistic, I thought (the young trophy wife, the adulation lavished on talented sports figures, among many other things).

Too bad Messrs. Irving, Mailer and Updike raised such ponderous complaints. I understand, Wolfe has answered those in his new book. However, I have not read it and hence can make no comment. Traude

I understand The Blind Assassin is a prize winning as well as a recent book. That is what my wife tells me. She is an Atwood fan and I suppose I should read at least one so I can communicate with her, although she claims the success of our 51 years of marriage depends mostly on a healthy lack of communication.

I think I would prefer it to the other books nominated in the December category while I still like the Kingsolver book for recent fiction for January . I imagine it will also garner a prize if it hasn't already.

Maryal- I remember that movie and agree - I thought it also extra- ordinary in its impact by having a mother and daughter experience the same trauma, war or not.

Last night I saw American Beauty- mostly because I have wanted to keep track of Kevin Spacey's growth as an actor- when I'd seen previous and box covers of the video the movie had no real appeal- until I saw it. Quite good, almost "literary" video.

Betty, I wonder if those authors who write good characters across gender have balanced their male/female aspects or have had receptive relationships with gender opposites- I am not limiting relationships to romance or only sexual- friendhips, parents, aunt, uncles, etc. almost like having a gender mentor who infuses understanding or a cross gender way of looking at things, perhaps even early in life----or are they simply androgenous.??

Can I just defend the book a little? It's one of my all-time favorites. Betty loved it too, didn't you? I have three or four female friends who also count it among their all time favorites. My best female friend didn't like it at all, however!! It was also one of my dad's favorites - he's the one who got me to read it! It's definitely one of those books that people are passionate about, one way or the other.

That said, I agree with Jim that it's good to read books that push our buttons even if we don't agree with the author's portrayal of character.

Charlie - are we still voting? When will we pick the winners?

Jim: LOL at your wife's analysis of the success of your marriage. My husband and I agree!

š ...jane›

Yes, I do love the book, Mating. It's a courageous author who will tackle the complexity of romantic relationships. If the woman yearns to be with the man (the word dependency is far too convoluted and over-used and has lost any one meaning), then there are bound to be missteps in writing of it--from both male and female authors.

I'm sure you're on to something, YiLi, in that male authors who seem to do justice to female characters are probably comfortable in many real life relationships with them. Empathy is what I look for. Empathy for a range of women's experiences. As if the male author has sat comfortably and listened carefully to what women are saying, and believed them. On the other hand, sometimes I sense that a male author has a thing or two to prove about women, that he's having his say.

Sarah - Yep. We are still voting. Let's leave it open until December 1st - hopefully there will be some more votes - and then make the selections then.
Charlie

My wife and I will be attending the Miami International Book Fair this coming weekend.

Several of the authors we have read will be there.

It will be interesting to see and hear from authors we have only experienced through print before.

For details go to http://www.herald.com and click on the book section.

On the plus for mating, the most recent chapter I read I thought hmm this woman is saying "out loud" what most of us keep behind sealed lips.

Looked at Barnes and Noble and what cheap books!

New Books in hardcover average about $25-$30NZ. We have small wages so it is quite a lot. However saying this even if I bought at Barnes and Noble with the exchange rate and shipping it would not be any cheaper!

You must all go crazy buying books at such good prices!

I have no idea what to vote for. Remember when choosing books we are about a month behind in release dates for new publications! I will go with the flow and hope I can procure the choices!

Carolyn

The Miami Book Fair will be on live this Sunday on C-Span 2

Jim Olson, Thanks for the infromation on the Book Fair. I was down town a few days ago and saw the "flags" on the posts informint us that it was that time. I won't be able to enjoy the side walk exhibits because I have another obligation for that weekend. The weather prediction is for lovely weather so it should be most enjoyable. They should be done with "counting Ballots" by that time. The train station ends right at the government center. The public library and art and history museums are located near by.

Hi from the Miami Book fair, I'm here with 250 authors, 300 exhibits, half million other visitors. Very hectic but interesting.

Lots of info to mull over in coming weeks.

Hey there Jimbo! Keep us informed and have fun.

Smart idea... Miami now ... Soak up the sun ... The Midwest is really chilling out.

"This was definitely one of the best books I have read in ages....." (Pat from Carrollton TX). "I couldn't put the book down, I read it all night...."(Gail, from Las Vegas NV) "This book should be on the best seller list, I told all my friends about it...." (Joan from Port Huron, MI) It is comments like these that give me the courage to post this message about the book my wife and I have written, and which has delighted readers, albeit a very limited group. We cannot afford a major marketing campaign, so word of mouth is paramount. THE GRIMMS PALACE, a Fairy Tale for Adults, by Fred and Vivian Bauman, is available on line from <iUniverse.com> and can be ordered from Barnes&Noble, Borders, Amazon, eCampus and others, and most bookstores around the country. The story deals with the kidnapping of a baby belonging to the owner of a casino, and is a page turner from start to finish. It would make a great Christmas present.

This is a suggestion from a very active participant in our "Lies" and the History discussions, Henry Misbach:

"I'd like to toss out another suggestion for a book to discuss. The one I have in mind is Crane Brinton's "Anatomy of Revolution." The reason this book got published was that it fell between the McCarthy furor and the huge Thermidorean reaction of the '70's to which I have already alluded. It came out in the middle '60's.

Before you say one way or another, I would suggest looking at reviews of the book conveniently available at amazon.com. It baffled some people, so we know it has some meat to it. Yet one reviewer was struck by the parallels to everyday life. I can assure you that the terminology in it, though it may be strange to you at first, was most of it already stock-in-trade for historians long before it was published. The first assumption Brinton sweeps aside rather early is that revolutions happen when conditions are terrible.

I don't believe that our prosperity is what assures it, but I do consider contemporary US virtually immune from a full fledged revolution. I also consider this country always in a swing one way or the other, and the overall trends sometimes match up in surprising ways with those that have attended upon revolutions or their aftermaths.

Check it out and see what you think. I certainly would not object to a book by Ted Koppel, either instead or in addition to Brinton."

Ted Koppel was one of the featured speakers at the Miami book fair as was David Gergen, both with new books out. I was a little disappointed in Koppel, and impressed more with Gergen who appeared to me to be a little more thoughful.

From the point of view of recent history the outstanding speaker was Loung Ung, a Cambodian who discussed her book, "First they Killed my Father," recounting her experiences as a child in Cambodia during the US bombing and later the Kymer Rouge and the killing fields.

One of my personal disappointments at the book fair was the reading session with Jane Smiley reading from her new novel. Horse Heaven.

The writing seemed trite an unispired- a pot boiler by an author capable of such sharp and witty satires as 'Moo" and the deeply philosophical prize winning "A Thousand Acres".

At the same session a discussion by an author I had never read but intend to was witty and fresh.

She was Paula Sharp and the novel was, "I Loved you All." I wonder if any one has read it and has an opinion of its value to us as a possible selection.

I would not care to discuss Horse Heaven.

I

Jim, it sounds to me as if you got a lot out of that Miami Book Fair and I've noted that you attended some sessions...with authors you had not read? Were these all free? Could you speak to the authors personally?

I know our Ed Zivitz usually always goes to the Miami Book Fair and usually has glowing reports about it, my one and only objection to it is the time: the weekend before Thanksgiving, that's just too close for a lot of people and it's always the same time.

Did you do an Elderhostel?

I saw your report in Problems and I wish we had thought...we really ought to put up a booth or something there, you know it? Wonder what THAT costs, what an opportunity to get more, hopefully, as you said, bookies. Thanks for trying anyway.

The turn around time, those three days, is really not enough, heck, people complained in NYC when we went December 7th that it was too close to Christmas.

Anyway, I have not read that author but will be interested in hearing about her and it makes it sound very attractive to learn of new people.

I've read A Thousand Acres but bummed out on Barn Blind and so have not continued with Smiley.

ginny

Ginny,

We went to the fair as part of an elderhostel presented by Barry University.

There were question and answer periods after each reading and signing sessions so there were chances to talk to the authors.

One problems was that we didn't really have enough time to talk with our fellow participants to compare notes since no person could attend more that a handful of the many sessions- all were free.

I think November was choosen because it is after the hurricane season and before the snow bird invasion that makes housing a problem.

Jim - I'm with you - hated Horse Heaven (as did everyone else, including the critics). I read somewhere recently an article by Smiley in which even she ridiculed the book. Odd that she's still reading from it - it's hardly new.

I also hated Moo - couldn't finish it nor Horse Heaven.

Another one here who thought Moo was highly overrated...finished it and thought..."is that all there is to this book?"...was so thankful I hadn't spent any of my$$$ on it.

š ...jane›

And Horse Heaven was worse ... and I did spend $$ on it.

Moo is dated now and I would not recommend it for the club, but I did enoy it.

I think you have to have a taste for broad satire to enjoy it.

Perhaps I like it because the satire of the academic community hit home for me in many respects, having spent a teaching and administraive career in a midwestern university.

As I mentioned Jane Smiley appeared with two other women writers, Mary Morris (Acts of God) and Paula Sharp (I Loved you All).

Of the three, Paula was the most interesting, Jane the most intelligent and also the most arrogant.

Hello: You’ll notice that, by popular vote, we have made selections for two of our ongoing series of book discussion: PRIZED FICTION and NEW FICTION On January 1st, we’ll begin a discussion of the National Book Award (1991) winning novel by Norman Rush: Mating. You’ll not want to miss this one, as it is a book that has been highly recommended by our own SarahT (who has volunteered to lead the discussion).

Then, our New Fiction selection for February will be Barbara Kingsolver’s Prodigal Summer. Anyone who was with us when we discussed her The Poisonwood Bible (pre-Oprah) will certainly remember that discussion. These should both make for fine commentary.

Charlie

OK, here is a book we have GOT to somehow fit in this spring, it's called House of Sand and Fog and it's by Andre DuBuss III. I first saw it mentioned in the last 5 minutes of the Oprah show the other week, and she went on about it so, that you HAD to read this book that I ordered it and she is right.

She said just get thru the first two chapters but I didn't want Chapter 1 to end, and now having finished Chapter 2, I'm not reading one step more till I have somebody to talk to about this, it's THAT good, it really is.

It appears to be about the American Dream, home ownership, from the vantage point of two disenfranchised people: a former Colonel in the Iranian army who now works on a road crew but who maintains life in a nice apartment and changed clothes every day to a business suit to keep up appearances, his desire burns deep, it's hypnotizing.

The second person is a woman whose husband left her and who is evicted as the book opens, from the house, which she inherited. The writing is absolutely....I have no words, but somehow you manage to BE both of those people and to feel that you understand them perfectly.

I really really hope we can read this book, it's now on the NY Times bestseller lists and it should be. I don't watch OPrah and I don't read her selections, but she was dead on right this time!

ginny

Here are the details and some reviews, it's in paperback, it's $8.40, maybe we can give one away here in January if we do decide to read it:

B&N Discover Great New Writers

In his novel House of Sand and Fog, Andre Dubus III writes about the American dream and the inalienable rights promised to us all: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The dream takes the form of a small house in northern California, put on the auction block over an unpaid tax bill. For Genoub Sarhang Massoud, a former colonel in the Shah of Iran's Imperial Air Force, the house represents his opportunity to become an American homeowner. Genoub has worked as a road worker and a convenience store clerk in America, while maintaining the façade of prosperity his family enjoyed in Iran. When he purchases the house at auction for the bargain price of $45,000, Genoub sees a chance to enter the world of real estate with a plan to re-sell the house, make a good profit, and buy another property.

Kathy Lazaro is beginning a dismal day. Her husband of one year left her eight months ago, and as she is rousing herself for a day of housecleaning for pay, a locksmith, two cops, and a guy in a suit arrive to advise her that she is being evicted. The home her dead father left her is being auctioned by the state over a $500 tax bill, and she desperately wishes she had not thrown out all those unopened envelopes from the county tax office.

Through the experiences of two characters, one on the threshold of realizing a dream and the other on a downward spiral to utter desolation, the dramatic fate of a house serves as the foundation on which Dubus builds his modern fable. As relevant as the early work of Clifford Odetts, and as penetrating as the novels of Theodore Dreiser, House of Sand and Fog fearlessly explores the meaning of fairness, dignity, and success as they relate to our lives today.

--Kelle Ruden, Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers

Synopsis A proud immigrant family betrayed by the American dream. A recovering alcoholic dispossessed by a bureaucratic error. A handsome deputy sheriff haunted by desire and remorse. In his breathtaking new novel, Andre Dubus III portrays the simple choices made by ordinary people that doom them to sensational destruction. House of Sand and Fog is a uniquely American tragedy in which a traditional story of immigrant success and a modern love story are turned upside down with brutal, heartrending consequences -- a compelling chronicle of good intentions gone awry that is impossible to put down.

Annotation 1999 National Book Award nominee for Fiction.

From the Publisher On a road crew in California, a former colonel in the Iranian Air Force under the Shah yearns to restore his family's dignity. When an attractive bungalow comes available on county auction for a fraction of its value, he sees a great opportunity for himself, his wife and children. But the house's former owner, a recovering alcoholic and addict down on her luck, doesn't see it that way, nor does her lover, a married cop driven to extremes to win her love and get her house back. These are people with ordinary flaws, people just looking for a small piece of ground to stand on, driven by the same needs into inevitable conflict - a conflict in which even the reader, rooting for all of them, has no safe haven. House of Sand and Fog turns both the traditional immigrant success story and a modern love story upside down with a heartending outcome, in a masterstroke of American realism and Shakespearean consequence.

What People Are Saying No one who reads this novel will ever forget it. — Author of Heartwood —James Lee Burke

House of Sand and Fog is a novel of terrible truths. Everyone here wants what we want -- love, justice, a home -- and all their good intentions collide, violently, inevitably, in a story of remarkable power and veracity and tenderness. Andrew Dubus III has a keen and generous eye, and a great gift of bestowing dignity on even the most confused of his people. I cared for them all, and mourned their fates. — Author of A Man in Full —Tom Wolfe

House of Sand and Fog is one of the best American novels I've ever read. —James Lee Burke

From the Critics From Publishers Weekly Dubus's chronicle of the American Dream gone awry is distinguished by his sympathetic delineation of lower-middle class life.

From Bill Sharp - The New York Times Book Review [E]xamines what happens when ordinary men and women move across the tenuous barrier between the normal and the irrational....a story...about how people...are repeatedly trapped by circumstances and transformed...

From Mirabella Unputdownable...a page-turner that's a mind-opener...a thriller with moral complexity.

From San Francisco Chronicle A craftsman of character and dialogue, Dubus has dared to push his limits.

From The Philadelphia Inquirer This is exceptional storytelling, true to life....A remarkable book. Andre Dubus III has crafted a searing and insightful chronicle of aspiration and desperation.

"House of Sand and Fog" is 25% off at Kmart.. $6.20... And I'll vote for it.. I'm half way through and it's a good one... Wonder what else he has written..

Does it keep on as well as it started, Pat? Is there any let down?

I really think we would make something out of this, what do the rest of you think?

ginny

House of Sand and Fog is # 1 on the San Francisco Bay Area "Quality Paperbacks" list this week.

I'm game to read it, Ginny. We're looking at March, right?

So far... I think it's good... But I like books no one else does... ha ha

Thanks to Charles we do have the author Jeff Shapiro all ready to join us in February as we read his book Renato's Luck

He seems from his email to be a delightful man and the book is a wonder in my estimation - it has humor and hope and pathos and sadness and love and tenderness and the outragious bubble of the Italian spirit all laced with this incredable wisdom. The place is Tuscany where the soil tastes of history. This was one of the best books I read last year bar none. I do not know what catagory it fits certainly not Prize winning books but please remember the book for February.Thanks

Editors' Choice for Best Ten Books of 2000. New York Times. Click here.

~Maryal

Thanks, Barb, that book discussion will be totally fabulous, what a coup, and you're the one who originally brought it to our attention, I have heard nothing but good about it, and am thrilled!

Everybody PLEASE try to attend this one, they say it's fabulous, not to mention THE LOST LEGENDS OF NJ, which is on the rave lists in the NY Times!

ANd the New Yorker!

Speaking of the NY Times, thanks so much for that article, Maryal!

Looking at it I see we here on SN are totally UP on the 5 fiction nominees, we've read The Human Stain and White Teeth and voted on or considered, as Joan P says, Beowulf and Gertrude and Claudius or vice versa hahahah and thus empowered by our very skillful "with it" Coordinator Charlie Wendell, and our Great Books maven, Joan P, are up on current best reading!

4 out of 5 is not bad!

Unfortunately our Non Fiction area suffers a bit on being au courant at the mo, and we missed all those cited here but someday our prince will come, the Prince of Non Fiction, and take over that area for us!

Meanwhile our non fiction discussions are fabulous, and are really some of the best we've ever had, and we have on tap Stephen Ambrose's new bestseller Nothing Like it in the World, and the new Joe DiMaggio biography as well as American Tragedy which was just a made for television movie a week or so ago, so stay tuned!!!

The Ghost of Christmas Present

Ginny - I was thrilled to see that House of Sand and Fog has received such enthusiastic support from the posters at this site. I know several men like the Iranian Colonel who tries to keep up "appearances" for his own dignity and that of his family, as well as former colleagues and friends. But I also can emphasize with the female owner of the house and her inattention to public notices of what will happen to the house. Who says a heart can't be split in half? Mahlia

I'm a big Updike fan - Gertrude and Claudius is on my list to read. Is anyone interested in reading it next year?

It's on the list that Maryal provided the link to above of the best reads of 2000.

Sarah----I'm interested in reading the Updike.

The Updike is pretty slim - I'd love to read it along with Tom Stoppaad's play Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. Funny, Funny, Funny

I read each review on the list of 10 best that Maryal provided, and yes, Gertrude and Claudius looks wonderful. Sounds like Updike outdoes himself on a beautiful setting. Capturing a period always captures me.

Sounds like we're forming a quorum on nominating the Updike for the next time we vote. Charlie, how will we work the voting for the March and thereafter books?

Several of the titles chosen by the N.Y. Times Editors (see link, Maryal's message #137) as among the best for the year 2000 might be of interests as the subject for future book discussions. Two that I would find interesting are “Genome” by Matt Ridley, Harper Collins, publisher, and “Beowulf,” a new verse translation by Seamus Heaney, Rarrar, Straus & Giroux.

I remember a most impressive 1990 book also entitled Genome by Jerry E. Bishop (A Wall Street Journal Science Editor) on the human genome project then just beginning, now nearly complete with a working map of the entire human genome. This is of immense importance to researchers for it opens the door for the beginning of research to actually develop new genetic medicines. I see from the B & N catalog there are many other current books on the genome project including a new one by Jerry Bishop. B&N Genome Project (B&N reviews and other information on the Matt Ridley book and some of the other books by clicking the book title icon)

As to the Beowulf title, it would be a fitting continuation of our recent “Canterbury Tales” project.

Harold---I also think the Genome book sounds very interesting and I vote for Beowulf also. We have considered it before for Great Books.

Here's the New York Times Editors' Choice again for those who missed it.

Maryal

I like the Updike book, also.

Lorrie

OK People---I realize that we will have to wait on this one, but I have a strong recommendation to make for Margaret Atwood's latest novel, The Blind Assasin. My daughter got it for me for Christmas and it is superb!

I know, I know, we need to wait until it is available in paperback, but this one is a WINNER. You have my word on it.

~Maryal

Oh, good. I have it UNABRIDGED in audio tapes. Will listen while ya'll read.

Maryal, no we don't need to wait for paperback, not all of our Book Club Online things are in paperback, Timeline certainly wasn't.

I think that's a fine suggestion and I think a lot of people might want to read it, too.

Thanks!

Here's another one, we have spoken of Edith Wharton many times but a new movie starring Gillian Anderson is coming out soon of The House of Mirth and that might make a great series, see the movie and read the book or vice versa.

I could certainly go for both of these books nominated, Blind Assassin nearly won the last time.

MaryPage-----Oh gooooood!!!!!!

Ginny-----OK, in that case, an even stronger recommendation!

G- I was thinking the same thing about the movie and the book.
Charlie

House of Mirth - me too. Just read a review of the movie, and it made me want to read the book, which I've never done.

That's THREE!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's get it up?

ginny

I'm with Maryal, The Blind Assassin. I have read 3/4 of the way thru this book and agree that it would provide some stimulating exchange here.

ALF----How good to have a companion! I am only about eighty pages in, but I do so admire this book. I have to force myself to read Hard Times, which I am teaching next semester. WHY can't I read two books at the same time? And read all the fine messages on SeniorNet? Multitasking indeed!

~Maryal

Oh, good. Nice to know I'm not the only one who has trouble reading two or more books at the same time. I do it, but the experience is not as satisfying as reading one book at a time.

Maryal... We read Hard Times a while back... There is an archived discussion. Hard Times

Might have some thoughts there for you. Joan Pearson was the discussion leader and a good one.

PatW---Thank you, thank you. I'm sure I will find some interesting comments in the Archives. I taught Hard Times once before--but that was years ago. I find that I am remembering little parts of it and then being surprised by sections I have no memory of.

~Maryal

I’d like to see the Sherlock Holmes’stories discussed. Somebody expert in Holmes would have to lead the discussion. I lack time. If we could be sure of a group of Holmes’ fans discussing the stories, we could probably bring a lot more readers into SeniorNet. There are quite a few Sherlock Holmes clubs throughout the country. To interest them, the discussion would have to be just about the Sherlock Holmes’stories. If they became aware of the discussion, they’d love to join in and show their expertise. They take all this quite seriously

Bill H

Bill H., I did a whole week of Sherlock Holmes once with an Elderhostel group, and have had my fill.

I read all the books eons ago, and quite enjoyed them, but I simply cannot get into that mania for trivia regarding every iota of every book and of Holmes, Watson and Doyle in particular.

On House of Mirth, I thought you'd be interested in the following tidbit.

For Wharton fans, this book has been made into a movie. I read a review (can't recall where) that talked about how hard it is to make her books into film because of Wharton's reliance on word (and word play) to get ideas across. When Martin Scorsese made Age of Innocence, he solved this dilemma by having Joanne Woodward voice over much of Wharton's text. The latest film doesn't do this - and yet, according to the one critic whose piece I read, it worked somehow.

As the "Prized Fiction" book discussions for March and July, we have chosen Wharton's House of Mirth (March 2001) and Dr. Zhivago (July 2001).

Please help us select the book for discussion in May 2001. Criteria: Must be a NOVEL and a prize-winner or nominee. It probably be a book of recent vintage since House of Mirth and Dr. Zhivago are both oldies but goodies.

Come on over and make some suggestions. We'll try to decide by consensus. PRIZED FICTION

Oh, dear. How did Zhivago get scooted all the way to July, Sarah? Had you thought we needed some distance between the beginning of the (Russian) Brothers Karamazacough-cough and Zhivago? Or did you think we needed some Mirth in our lives?

Zhivago moved to July to accommodate Ella (another DL), who will co-lead the discussion with me but has another book discussion to lead in March and will be away in May!!

MaryPage, I know what you mean! I attended one of the Sherlock fan club meetings several years ago, and it was it was a bit much.

But if the clubs got interested, we could let them do it. Then we could just look in "lurk," see what interesting comments their making and, if we wanted, we could make some of our own.

Bill H

Bill, I love the idea. I am going to be traveling so could not help at this time...

Perhaps some of you remember the book PRIMARY COLORS by Anonymous? You couldn't get near the book in libraries when it first came out, but I've read it lately and mentioned it somewhere in the books. Jane and Jeryn were both interested, so that makes three of us.

Charlie - this is your terrain I believe. Although touted as fiction we all know to whom the book has reference and it might be fun to guess who is who, although some of them are very obvious.

Here's a thought: La Maravilla by Alfredo Vea. It was recommended to me very highly by an incredibly voracious reader.

La Maravilla

Synopsis "A forceful vision of the vibrant, symbiotic co-existence of colliding cultures" (San Francisco Chronicle), this much-praised literary debut by Mexican-American author Vea spins a lyrical and largely autobiographical tale of life in a squatter's community outside Phoenix in the 1950s.

I don't know if it has won any awards or been up for any. I will check further. Linda

Ella- I put this book into the Book Exchange some time ago. I never read it but my wife had - and she enjoyed it as I recall. If there are others interested in reading this, post here - or let Ella know. This was made into a John Travolta movie, too, I think.
Charlie

That does sound good, Linda - as long as it's not too heavy on the magical realism!! It reminds me a bit of a southwest trilogy I read some years ago…what was the name of that??? Author John something…Nichols? Ahhhhhhhh! They made a movie out of one of them…Redford??

Charlie

Yes!! Thank you, thank you!
Charlie

Redford directed it. I loved that movie. The music, particularly.

La Maravilla is just a thought that's been bobbing aorund in my mind. I haven't read it yet. The magical realism aspect is not exactly my cup of tea usually. I keep hoping some book may chage that.

I am almost finished reading House of Sand and Fog, by Andre Dubus III which I would like to recommend as a future selection. This book was a finalist for the 1999 National Book Award for Fiction. I am very near the end, and could hardly tear myself away to post this message.

Oh don't go away JeanBS. We are slated to read that come spring I think. I've just borrowed it and will start it next week when we go to the islands.

Jean BS----I am reading House of Sand and Fog also and loving it. It is going to be discussed although the time hasn't been set yet. But it is up there as a future attraction. I look forward to discussing it.

~Maryal

THE MEDUSA AND THE SNAIL by Lewis Thomas

LATE NIGHT THOUGHTS ON LISTENING TO MAHLER'S NINTH SYMPHONY, also by Lewis Thomas

Mary: How are those published? Are they on-line, or are they in a collection?

They were published as hardback books. The essays in Medusa, mostly science-related musings, but NOT science per se, were printed in other publications beginning in 1974 and were printed together for the first time in 1979. As far as I know, these are still available in paperback, but I am not certain. Will have to go into Barnes & Noble and put in Lewis Thomas and see what they have of his!

He is a fabulous writer, but the really great things are the number of new facts you learn from him that you never, ever heard before and the new pathways of thinking upon things that you find yourself taking.

Late Night Thoughts likewise is comprised of essays written all during the early eighties and published elsewhere and put together in one book in 1983. Again, I think all of his books are still available. Here is a bit from the essay "On Matters of Doubt":

"If you are looking about for really profound mysteries, essential aspects of our existence for which neither the sciences nor the humanities can provide any sort of explanation, I suggest starting with music. The professional musicologists, tremendous scholars all, for whom I have the greatest respect, haven't the ghost of an idea about what music is, or why we make it and cannot be human without it, or even ---- and this is the telling point ---- how the human mind makes music on its own, before it is written down and played. The biologists are no help here, nor the psychologists, nor the physicists, nor the philosophers, wherever they are these days. Nobody can explain it. It is a mystery, and thank goodness for that."

I checked and, yes, Barnes & Noble still has ALL of his books (he has written quite a number of others, and some of them, as well, are collections of his essays) in trade paperback. By that I mean, book size paperbacks. They sell for between 10 and 12 dollars each. He is a truly wonderful writer and his works will be published for a very, very long time to come.

I read a book called The Case of the Mid-Wife Toad some years ago by this same guy, I think - but I can't come up with it in a search anywhere? Am I dreaming this?

Best American Essays 2000 might be worth a shot. In the back of the book they also make a list of others that were very good and the magazines or wherever they can be located.

Linda

Charlie...Is it possible it was a Short Story and perhaps Short Story Index would have a citation?

š ...jane›

Charlie, that sounds like an essay that Lewis Thomas would write. He writes about all sorts of unusual things, and many of them touch upon science in one form or another, frequently biological. Thomas is a doctor.

"Night Gardening", a novel by E.L.Swann, I thought was a delightfully written book. It may be a woman's story but I thought the prose and the descriptions of plants, etc. was delightful.Well woven into the story. It's a love story about older people too.

I tried suggesting a book before, but I guess I was overly enthusiastic. I still the same about feel "that book" and the discussion it would generatem especially in this group; however, I am in the middle of reading "AS NATURE MADE HIM" - (non-fiction ) by John Colapinto. Let me give you a review as follows:

"Reading over interviews and reports of decisions made by this doctor, it's difficult to contain anger at the widespread results of his insistence that natural-born gender can be altered with little more than willpower and hormone treatments. The attempts of his parents, twin brother, and extended family to assist Brenda to be happily female are touching--the sense is overwhelmingly of a family wanting to do "right" while being terribly mislead as to what "right" is for her. As Brenda makes the decision to live life as a male (at age 14), she takes the name David and begins the process of reversing the effects of estrogen treatments. David's ultimately successful life--a solid marriage, honest and close family relationships, and his bravery in making his childhood public--bring an uplifting end to his story. Equally fascinating is the latest segment of the longtime nature/nurture controversy, and the interviews of various psychological researchers and practitioners form a larger framework around David's struggle to live as the gender he was meant to be. --Jill Lightner"

This is one of the saddest, anger provoking, bringing to the surface such overwhelming saddness' a book which will truly make us realize how much our generation did not question a medical authority - and the blind trust and faith so many placed in the hands of those whose objection was not to cure a patient, but for simple curiosity, and status.

So guys, that's my recommendation take a look at it.

Dolphindli

Dolphindli - I read that book a few months ago and had the same reactions. It provokes many questions, worthwhile to be discussed. It was sensitively written and I think at the conclusion, I was angrier than the victim was! Despite it all, it's incredible what an adjustment he made.

You've got my vote!

Dolphindli, wasn't the book you were so fond of POPE JOAN? I finished it and sent it on to a granddaughter, who is to read it and pass it on to my daughter, and so on and on.

I loved the book and highly recommend it to anyone. I would cringe from a discussion of the book here, however, for fear too many people might be unhappy with the revealed history in it.

Hi Diane -

Re: "AS NATURE MADE HIM" - (non-fiction ) by John Colapinto

Yes, I too truly admire David for all he suffered and the strength he found to overcome such adversity - my heart hurt for him as a her - and I actually cried so many times during the reading of his life.

I cried for joy however at the line he gave his wife when she asked (after he had met with the girl who befriended him as a girl in school) "What did you talk about? she asked. His answer just made me burst with emotion as if I had just participated in a re-birth. Those simple words to his Wife just seem to make everything "all better" for David." Needless to say, I won't give his response for those who have not read the book. But, Gosh, I get teary just writing about it.

I didn't realize that he was on Oprah -- my daughter told me after I read the book. She hasn't read it yet and now can't wait to get it back. I read the book in one day and night!! I just could not stop reading it.

He is a remarkable individual and his reality will remain with me the rest of my life.

I am so glad you also read the book and share the same emotions.

Dolphindli

Yes - it was Donna Woolfolk Cross' Pope Joan and I still feel the sameway about the book. I know your granddaughter will love it; mine certainly did. Now, the next granddaughter in line, age 13, will start reading it.

Thanks for remembering. It is a very worth and discussable read.

Dolphindli

This is the first time that I've come across other people who've read the book. It was a tragic and shocking story, and it is a testament to his strength that he didn't kill himself along the way. I heard a couple of years ago of two males born in a Georgia hospital, *both* of whom were horrifically mutilated during circumcision, and their parents were talked into "reassigning" their gender and raising them as girls. I simply could not believe the grotesque arrogance of the doctors.

I've known three males in my life who voluntarily pursued surgical and hormonal "sex changes" in adult life. One was a woman I worked with for many years before I found out she had been born a male, and we became pretty good friends at work. While I don't have any strong feelings about *voluntary* sex changes that arise from religious beliefs, I do, nevertheless, have doubts and feel that it is something that may have been too enthusiastically embraced by the medical community. I am not at all convinced based on the people I've known first hand, and from what I have seen in the way of documentaries that the touted successes have truly made for happier people.

In any case, I'm sure the book would launch some interesting discussions on sex and gender and the medical profession, far beyond David's story. I think, however, men especially have quite a difficult time even beginning to move away from stereotypical conceptions of what it means to be a man or a woman and to start asking questions instead of having answers. Jack

Iman and Dolphindi: Thanks for your suggestions (and kexvu for your comments). I have also made all DL's aware of these two books. If anyone is interested in helping select our New Fiction book for April - please do so here: New Fiction
Charlie

Has anyone suggested Huxley's "Brave New World?" To me, this is more the direction in which we are going rather than "1984."

Robby

kevxu - I thought I'd lost you in the email ether - so great to see you back!

Sarah

John Le Carre's new novel, "the Constant Gardener" has two things going for it, in my estimation: I. It's set in Africa, which I find interesting, and it concerns the issue of corporate greed, particularly in the field of pharmaceuticals, a very topical subject to these older readers! Let's consider it!

Lorrie

is also about murder and post-cold war Britons in Kenya (I think it is).

Traude

I have been a avid, rabid reader in the past but for the past few years I have read less...I did read The Perfect Storm, Snow falling on Cedars, The Great Hunger ( the story of the Irish potato famine) and The Greatest Generation...there were several others but the names elude me now...however you inspire me to go the library and see what I have missed ..thanks one and all for that push...anna in VA who has been a lax reader for too long

Anna, what a wonderful statement! I agree, we are all spurred on here to more reading by the others in our group, one spark ignites another and soon a real fire develops, thank you for that statement!

ginny

I'd like to suggest "An Empire of Women," by Karen Shepard. This would be an excellent book to analyze both the author's motives and its story. Although I found it difficult to understand or enjoy, it might be just the type book that would appeal to our accomplished SeniorNet literary readers.

JeanBS - Thanks for the suggestion. It does sound like a difficult and complex book - though challenging. Has anyone else read this one? This is a debut novel.

Charlie

The fiction nominees for the National Book Critics Circle Award for the year 2000 have been announced. Neither B&N nor Amazon have put these up as yet. Slackers! They call themselves book guys? Of the 5 nominees, we have discussed one here in the late lamented New Fiction series: Zadie Smith's White Teeth. Three others have at one time or another been mentioned there as possibly worthy of discussion, but drew no interest:

Jim Crace's Being Dead
Amy Bloom's A Blind Man Can See How Much I Love You
Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay

The final book, like Bloom's, a collection of stories is David Means' Assorted Fire Events: Stories

The awards ceremony will take place on March 12th in New York, at NYU. If you live in New York, the nominees (for all categories) will read from their work on March 11th, also at NYU. Quite an opportunity.

Charlie

I have the Chabon on my list as a must read, so I'm definitely in favor of it.

I would like to reiterate that if you are looking for an excellent, highly discussable novel, I suggest "Pope Joan", by Donna Woolfolk Cross (http://www.popejoan.com. I know that I previously suggested this book, but

1. You ask for favorites 2. You ask for best sellera 3. You ask for a book that will generate discussion.

In response I say Pope Joan:

1. Pope Joan was my favorite book this year 2. It's number one in SEVENTEEN COUNTRIES 3. What could be more discussable than (as taken from the synopsis):

As its title reveals, the novel is based on the life of one of the most fascinating, extraordinary women in Western history--Pope Joan, a controversial figure of historical record who, disguised as a man, rose to rule Christianity in the 9th century as the first and only woman to sit on the throne of St. Peter.

Brilliant and talented, young Joan rebels against the medieval social strictures forbidding women to learn to read and write. When her older brother is killed during a Viking attack, Joan takes up his cloak and identity, goes to the monastery of Fulda, and is initiated into the brotherhood in his place. As Brother John Anglicus, Joan distinguishes herself as a great Christian scholar. Eventually she is drawn to Rome, where she becomes enmeshed in a dangerous web of love, passion, and politics. Triumphing over appalling odds, she finally attains the highest throne in Christendom.

Pope Joan is a sweeping historical drama set against the turbulent events of the 9th century -- the Saracen sack of St. Peter's, the famous fire in the Borgo that destroyed over three-quarters of the Vatican, the Battle of Fontenoy, arguably the bloodiest and most terrible of medieval conflicts. The novel is a fascinating vivid record of what life was really like during the so-called Dark Ages, as masterwork of suspense and passion that has as its center an unforgettable woman, reminiscent of Dorothea in George Eliot's Middlemarch, Jane Austen's Emma, and other heroines who struggle against restrictions their souls will not accept.

Sorry - hit "post" before I concluded my message, so in conclusion I would like to post an earlier response post from MaryPage regarding Ms. Cross' Pope Joan, to wit:

"MaryPage - 12:07pm Jan 19, 2001 PST (#190 of 204)

Dolphindli, wasn't the book you were so fond of POPE JOAN? I finished it and sent it on to a granddaughter, who is to read it and pass it on to my daughter, and so on and on.

I loved the book and highly recommend it to anyone. I would cringe from a discussion of the book here, however, for fear too many people might be unhappy with the revealed history in it.

I can only hope that MaryPage's posting will likewise peak your interest in this historical fiction novel.

Thanks -

Dolphin

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dolphindli

Yes, Charlie W., this is a debut novel by Karen Shepard, and the copy I have is "Uncorrected Manuscript For Limited Distribution," and it was due to be published in hardcover in September, but I don't know whether that means 2000 or 2001.

Dolphindli: Did you really mean to say that Pope Joan is the #1 bestseller in 17 countries? Or did you mean to say that publishing rights have been purchased by seventeen foreign countries (as quoted from the official Pope Joan website).
Charlie

I responded favorably umpteen months ago to the idea of reading Pope Joan. I remember writing that it doesn't look like a grand piece of literature, but, hey, neither is Into Thin Air or The Climb (great discussion, folks, go check it out) or Ambrose's railroad saga, but we're having a wonderful time with those.

There's another book published around the same time that lays out the historical research of Pope Joan. I'm not committing one way or the other on Pope Joan (although my interest is high, just don't know if I can add to my own commitments), but reading both the historical novel (Pope Joan) and the book of historical research might be interesting for those who DO fall under Dolphin's spell. (She might even mail the book to 5 of us.)

Hi, Everybody.

In order for a book to be one of our SeniorNet Book discussions, there are a couple of needs which need to be met: one is a Books Discussion Leader willing to take on the book and the other is a quorum of three readers committed to reading it.

If the book satisfies those criteria we schedule it? We have just finally, after almost 5 years of my whining, scheduled a Penelope Fitzgerald for May (when I leave with the Bookies to Europe)...but 18 days of Fitzgerald is better than none, so it often takes quite a while.

I remember what a time Fran O had getting us to read Tuesdays With Morrie but eventually it paid off and was a great discussion, tho inexplicably deleted from our Archives.

So I'm saying that....sometimes people can't understand why we don't select the book they suggest and sometimes they get discouraged, but we have all suggested hundreds of books, literally, in the past going on 5 years, and we can't read them all, tho it would be nice to try.

I'm not far enough into the Ambrose to comment on its literary worth, but if there were ever a book with more historical fact packed into its pages I hope never to see it.

The Climb, as Betty has noted, (as is the Ambrose discussion) is a surprising gift, due to the enthusiasm of the participants. The Climb was intended only as a refutation of charges made against the author: the discussion is better than the book, due to the enthusiasm of the participants.

ginny

would like to suggest "Falling Leaves" by Adeline Yen Mah The memoir of an Unwanted Chinese Daughter Excellent reading

Hello, Bessbess, and welcome to the Books & Lit! I have heard a lot about that book, and appreciate your mentioning it here. It DOES look wonderful.

Please look all around our Books & Lit and make yourself right at home!

You are in good company here,

Welcome!

ginny

Welcome bessbess!! It's great to have you with us. The memoir sounds great. Is the daughter living in the U.S. now? Tell us more about it!

bessbess, we have a wonderful list of places/discussion boards to visit. Click HERE to take you to the Books & Literature Index

Welcome bessbess

Glad to see you posting. Keep posting,

Ginger

The Memoir of an Unwanted Chinese Daughter---it's already on my list of want-to-read. Did I see an interview with her or am I thinking of something else? I think I saw the tail end of it.

JeanBS- Karen Shepard read tonight in Cambridge from her book An Empire of Women

Charlie

I didn't have the time to read all of the previous posts, so do not know if "The House of Sand and Fog" by Andre Dubus III has been recommended yet? Just finished it last week, (it was an Oprah selection) and it seems to me to be a book that would raise a lot of discussion, pro and con. It is also a page turner right to the end, I thoroughly enjoyed and learned from it.

babsNH... Glad you asked... House of Sand and Fog is scheduled for discussion March 1st.

See the reading schedule here

Are we reading The Constant Gardener by John Le Carre?

The Constant Gardener is schedule for late spring or early summer. I haven't read it, but it looks to be a good one... But I do like John LeCarre.

Good, Pat! I'll look forward to the discussion. I bought the book but haven't read it yet.

Just a reminder to everyone that we will commence the discussion of Edith Wharton's House of Mirth on March 1. Wharton fans, folks who saw the recent movie remake and want to read the book, people who have never read Wharton but would like to, folks interested in talking about the constraints on women presented by social mores - old and new - please join us on March 1!!

Click on "Books & Lit Menu" or "Welcome Center" at the top of this page to get to the discussion, which will be listed there.

Has anyone read This Much I Know by Wally Lamb? I, for one, would love to get others' opinions and ideas on this. I loved it-read it twice!

How about "The Blind Assassin?" or any of Atwood's books? I have heard there are many layers to "The Blind Assassin."

HATS

Linda, you will be delighted to hear The Blind Assassin, by popular demand, IS on the Upcoming schedule, the heading is being prepared as we speak and our very own Maryal, she of the GROG will be leading that one, and NOBODY wants to miss Maryal!!

So that's a GOOO and as soon as the header is ready, up it goes!

Great suggestion!!

ginny

HATS--I have agreed to lead a discussion on The Blind Assassin. Not sure when it will be scheduled, but as I remember May or June.

Maryal

oooops---that'll teach me to read more carefully. Ginny's post above. Oooooops.

Hi, everybody. Wilna, I read This Much I know Is True, and it was wonderful. I sent it to my daughter, and think of one particular part everytime I'm in the left turn lane at a red light. March 1 is Sand...lookin forward to the disussion. Maris

Maryal, I am so gladByou will be the discussion leader for "The Blind Assassin." You will make it an exciting read.

HATS

Why thank you, HATS, but I believe Margaret Atwood has already made it an exciting read!

Maryal

I am interested in reading and discussing EL Doctorow's CITY OF GOD. I have read most of his work, and really like it, but find this one hard to get a handle on.

gaga32

I have just finished one of the best books ever - Ice Bound by Jerri Nielsen. You've probably heard of her, the doctor who spent the winter in Antarctica and part-way through discovered she had breast cancer and had to be air-lifted out.

First of all, Jerri is just a neat person. She has lead an interesting life and comes from a devoted family which is enviable in its closeness and loyalty. Next, she undertook a most unusual challenge at the South Pole. It's so crazy and wonderful what goes on there. Finally, there's the cast of characters, "Polies" that are her close (only) companions while "on the ice". I wish I could do a better job of conveying my enthusiasm here. But as I was reading this, I also kept thinking what great discussions this book might stimulate here. It's about so much more than braving the isolation and extreme elements at the Pole - it's about relationships and about humor and, oh, so much.

Whether or not this is chosen for a discussion, I really hope that lots of you will decide to read this.

Diane, that looks wonderful, could you also put it in the Non Fiction Area, (as people are saying nothing has been said there)....hahaaha... I have heard so much about this woman and am glad to find somebody who has read her book, what courage she must have had!

It might make a great group read from the issues you describe, sounds like what we need! Thank you for bringing it to our attention, let's see who all is interested!

ginny

Diane and Ginny,

I've heard GREAT things about that book. Did you know that doctor had to operate on herself with the assistance of all her colleagues? For a biopsy, I think. I saw an interview of her recently. Will comment in non=fiction.

I look forward to reading your comments there, Betty and Diane!

Grateful thanks to our Marjorie who has provided that wonderful chart for us here so we can see what all is coming up, and who also maintains it, thanks so much Marjorie!

ginny

Marjorie...I like the white alternating, Marjorie, rather than the other colors that were there. This one is so much easier to read for me.

š ...jane›

Marjorie---The chart is much easier to read here also. Good work!

Ginny and Betty, thanks - I just posted over in Non-Fiction about Ice Bound.

I had heard about this book and decided, oh heck, another adventure-on- ice tale. It just didn't grab my interest, unusual though the circumstances were. Then I saw Jerri Nielsen interviewed on television and was so impressed with the kind of person she is and knew I DID have to read her book. I was lucky to get on our library's reservation list early, ahead of the swarm of reservations that came later. But now, boo-hoo, I have to return the book. Time's up. I hope this comes out in paperback.

I just love it that I think you guys might be reading it.

Diane, I had the same thoughts until I saw the same interview (or one of them?). There they were, cut off from the world for 5(?) months in Antartica, and the one physician on the team, Jerri Nielsen---prepared to do whatever medical care became necessary (and that included everything)---became seriously ill herself.

And interestingly, Betty, the surgery and evacuation were not (to me) the key points of the book. What will really stay with me will be the people, in all their differences, and the things they did to survive the polar winter. Just imagine an array of people, each with a specific job to do, stuck together and unreachable for nearly a year, in an environment that is hostile, even savage in its beauty.

I suppose I'll eventually get this book out of my system but I find myself regularly thinking about the "Ice", how winter has now set in there and the summer folks have left. Never thought I'd feel such an affection for a bunch of people far away and doing something I never would have dreamed of doing.

You must have had the same reaction to Jerri that I did. I wish I could see the interview again and try to figure out what it was that made me feel I had to read her book.

Here are som more very good suggestions from various posters:

Bonesetter’s Daughter.......................................................................Amy Tan
Body Artist..........................................................................................DeLillo
The Painted House...............................................................................Grisham
A Biographer’s Tale............................................................................A.S. Wyatt
First Counsel........................................................................................Brad Weltzer
Feast of Love..........................................................................................Charles Baxter

NON FICTION

IBM and the Holocaust..............................................................................Edwin Black
Galileo’s Daughter....................................................................................Dava Sobel

Lorrie:--Some time ago I suggested a book about the mothers of the Presidents. I forget the name of the book.

Robby

Robby, do you remember in which folder you put the book suggestion? Was it in Best Sellers? I cannot find it in the outline for the posts there, back to about February of 2000. Or was it in here?

Lorrie

I suggested it about five months ago. I had heard the author interviewed on the Diane Rehm show.

Robby

I applaud the ongoing trial and error process in creating an understandable Books and Lit filing system (and subject folders that meet our needs)....thank goodness people here are willing to keep changing as we learn what fits and what fits even better.

An indirect benefit of this (growing) process is the number of members who now can manage just about any kind of folder...like Lorrie and Andy of "Best Sellers" folder.

Lorrie, you were the first to grab Feast of Love off the table. Where do we stand with that one? (I was just seconds behind you, Miss Quick Fingers.)

betty

This book is an excellent resource for book club members and other avid readers. It's a paperback from HarperCollins that gives brief, vivid descriptions of 200 fiction and nonfiction books that 70 reading groups in six different state have recommended with great enthusiasm. There are a few questions following each book's profile, to serve as food for thought. The author is a book reviewer in northern California and a long-time book club member. Book Magazine has recommended it a couple of times in its regular reading group feature. (Book Magazine is another good source of top picks by book clubs.)

Betty, sorry to be delayed in my response.

Let's see if we can't get up a quorum for Feast of Love! I tend to put a lot of credence in Charlie's recommendations, and this book seems almost too good to just pass by for an in-depth discussion!

How about it, all you good readers? Anyone out here interested in putting this wonderful book up for discussion?

Miss Quick Fingers

"One of the reasons that “women’s fiction” has been scorned in the past is that the ladies seemed intent on sanitizing and prettifying their stories. As the title suggests, there’s nothing cutesy about Jo-Ann Mapson’s “Bad Girl Creek” (Simon & Schuster, 336 pages; $24, May). Mapson, a native Californian, gained a wider audience when her novel “Blue Rodeo” was made into a TV movie starring Kris Kristofferson and Ann Margaret. Mapson is into women with gumption and grit, and her latest is no exception. As the novel opens, Phoebe Thomas looks for all the world like the quintessential victim. She’s wheelchair-bound and a recluse in the bargain. At 38, Phoebe would be generously described as diminutive; she’s been in her chair for the last three decades thanks to a spine twisted at birth and a heart damaged by rheumatic fever. Up to now, she’s been content to make a sort of living by sculpting amusing female nudes in clay and to live with her eccentric aunt. Aunt Sadie’s death is a shock, but there’s a bigger shock to come. The old woman has left 40 acres of prime land on California’s Central Coast not to her nephew James, the wannabe financial whiz, but to her crippled niece instead. “If you dig deep enough in the garden,” Sadie’s whimsical bequest to Phoebe begins, “you’re likely to come across my red cowboy boots. I wore the soles out, dancing with no-good men on sawdust-covered floors, and regret not a moment. . . . The reason I buried my shoes, you see, is that I never understood the point in throwing leather away when it could be used as mulching material.” Big brother James is furious and unnecessarily cruel when he points out the obvious — a woman in a wheelchair has no use for a farm. But Phoebe has other ideas: She’ll use the rich soil to grow flowers for the wholesale market. “Even if some parts of me don’t work so great,” she says, “I know I have excellent floral taste.” Such a daring project, of course, is easier said than done. Phoebe reasons that she needs abler bodies than her own, as well as some regular source of income. She solves both problems by taking in roommates/employees, three women who have also found themselves at loose ends. The bonding that occurs in this mismatched quartet feels genuine and never smacks of man hating or strident feminist hype. “Bad Girl Creek” is a brave, deliciously funny novel. And it’s good news that Mapson says it’s the first of a trilogy." BAD GIRL CREEK by ANN MAPSON

FrancyLou

Bad Girl Creek sounds good to me.....

Is anyone familiar with Ann Patchett? I read a book by her called "Taft." Quite a book. It never lost its pace.

Ann Patchett has a new one called "Bel Canto." It's about hostages and their captors. It gets into how their roles change throughout the ordeal.

It's fiction.

HATS

This new suspense thriller has a 2-fold premise based first on scientific evidence that a soul exists, and second that some invention of man could destroy it. Not just a thriller but very thought-provoking -- a real "think piece" that can generate deeply philosophical questions. The soul is discovered to be an energy form subject to eradication by a new form of radiation. The story line involves an Army officer who intends to use the radiation as a weapon and a protagonist who wants to believe a God exists. Story locations include Los Alamos and Washington, DC. Author finds way to resolve story with ending of "God's still in heaven/all's right with world."

Sandy

Hi, Sandy, thank you for that recommendation, is that your own book? We have an Authors's Corner where published authors meet, and you are welcome there any time, as well, just click on the main B&L Menu and look for it among the general discussions, and thank you, it does look good!

ginny

Lorrie- have not dropped by here in awhile, just read the body artist and thought in the reading how much more I would have gotten out of it if we were discussing it. In fact a few parts I particularly recall saying to myself- hmm wonder what the seniornet folk would say about that!

right now i'm reading bad timing, i am enjoying the book but not sure it would have wide appeal- anyone else read this one?

Yili, would love to hear more about Don Delillo's The Body Artist. I liked his last book immensely - tell me more about your thoughts on this one.

Feast of Love keeps cropping up in email literary newsletters and I see that Powells Bookstore (my favorite bookstore in Portland, OR and online) is promoting it on their home page. I've ordered it for $6 from an Amazon "seller"---one step removed from Amazon, though guaranteed by Amazon. It will come by book rate mail, 2-3 weeks.

I'm so excited by this book that I may not be able to wait for a discussion to begin. It looks hilarious, moving, instructive (how writers do characters and story) and is sure to touch a sad nerve or two...well, it is about love. Most reviewers also mention Charles Baxter's other wonderful books, so I have a feeling that two authors (both new to me), Penelope Fitzgerald (Blue Flower and Bookshop, both for May discussion) and Charles Baxter, are two that I want to read more of. That is one of my favorite things to do...to read a body of work, starting with the earliest book...fascinating, watching a writer's progression.

betty

Betty - I love doing that too. I'm trying to read the Pat Barker books - she is fabulous - although I keep getting distracted by all the other GREAT books you and others bring to my attention here at SeniorNet.

This is a book that is one that can be read with so much pleasure! The story is interesting,it has suspense and is amusing,too. You'll like it,I promise.

Miss Julia is such a kick. It's amazing how the author has something hilarious going on, on each page.

Has anyone enjoyed Sandra Dallas' Alice's Tulips as I did? It's about newlyweds during the Civil War. While he goes to war, she's left behind to cope with her MILaw and ever so many others since she's an outsider. The women are strong, and you realize they absolutely had to be. The author weaves in a mystery. It's told through letters to her sister. Just a great read. Dallas wrote The Persian Pickle Club. I've read all of her novels and this is my favorite.

Reading Boris Pasternak's Dr. Zhivago has stimulated my interest in all things Russian. At the Library today, I picked up a book entitled THE LAST TSAR by Edward Radzinsky, an acclaimed Russian playwright, and trained historian, published in 1992. He has been working on this book for the past 25 years and the book begins:

....As now, the century then was living out its last years. And as now, .....young people were living with a presentiment of what was to be. The two happiest of young people, Nicky and Alix, in love, joined in marriage and rulers of one-sixth of the world were also living this happy future. The day of their coronation, set for 1896, promised to be the prologue to the even happier life that awaited them in the new century. May 14, 1896. Moscow, the Kremlin. In ancient Assumption Cathedral, the sacred coronation rite was in progress. Candles burned...cherubic singing a cappella, .........

(2nd paragraph) July 17, 1918. Ekaterinburg. The bodies were put in the hole and the faces and all the bodies generally doused with sulfuric acid, both so they couldn't be recognized and to prevent any stink from them rotting (it was not a deep hole).......

Gives one chills doesn't it? Were their deaths justified by what came later? I hardly think so, do you?

I would like to suggest the Canadian writer Alistaire MacLeod who wrote several marvelous short stories; this is his first novel and recently it was nominated for the world's righest literary prize, the Kirchhoff $172,000 IMPAC. MacLeod traces the histoy of a Scottish family from the highland to their present day trials and tribulations in Cape Breton and other parts of Canada. It's a finely crafted novel, sometimes funny and often heart-breaking. ine

ine- I think that is an excellent suggestion. For those who have never read MacLeod, though, would you suggest this, his first novel (paperback to be released this month) or his collection of short stories - Island: The Complete Stories?? I would really like to read something by him. How much Macleod have you read?

Charlie

I just finished a brief and charming novel - #6 on the NY Times paperback list.

GIRL WITH A PEARL EARRING

by TRACY CHEVALIER

The book vividly describes the world of 17th Century Delft through the eyes of a young girl. One of it's main characters the painter Vanmeer. We also have a peek at the inventor Van Leeuwenhoek.

The title of the novel is taken from one of Vanmeer's most famous and most enigmatic paintings.

It's a fast read - and a delight!

Louise- I agree. I read the Chevalier last year and found it thoroughly enjoyable.

Charlie

Ine and charlie mention Alistaire MacLeod.

I'm reading the MacLeod short stores "Island..". Decided on those first before I read his novel. Have heard him several times interviewed on CBC radio.

His short stories take you right into Atlantic Canada. I am thrilled with his work. Sometimes I get restless reading short stories. MacLeod has a richness that draws me in.

I like this quote from Amazon.com

What makes the writing sing, though, is the specificity of his descriptions of rural life. He tells you exactly how things work: "The sheep move in and out of their lean-to shelter, restlessly stamping their feet or huddling together in tightly packed groups. A conspiracy of wool against the cold." The people here are ultimately defined by the physical world, and MacLeod has a farmer's visceral feel for geography.

Louise: I agree, Pear Earring was a delight to read.

~Marj

One of the off-line book groups to which I belong discussed this book last month. At length. Two people brought in art books, and we tried to actually pinpoint which of the paintings shown had been mentioned in the book.

We always have a good time, but this discussion was especially enjoyable, especially satisfying. One of the participants, an artist (it must be mentioned), said afterwards - in wonderment - she never expected that this "slim" book would generate "that much" of a discussion.

There's another book on the best seller list - also about a Vermeer painting - called Girl in Hyacinth Blue I think. How odd and interesting that they're both listed at the same time?

Has anyone read both, and if so, can you recommend one over the other (so many books, so little time!!)

I've read both books. The authors come at their story lines from entirely different angles. TGWTPEarring is actually about a picture Vermeer painted and how possibly life was at that time. The model was portrayed as a servant girl in the family home.

The author of Girl in Hyacinth Blue uses an unusual method of telling her story. This portrait is of a fictional Vermeer. The stories are of the various owners. It begins in the present and works backward to the time when it is painted. Each chapter is such a contrast from the others.

If I recall correctly, both authors were inspired by a showing of a Vermeer collection, I believe in NYC. Both make you yearn to see such a collection yourself.

I enjoyed both books and the way the authors told the stories. Both are fast reads. di

Yet a third "Vermeer Novel" is by Katherine Weber: The Music Lesson, also features a plot-line driven by a Vermeer painting - this one housed at Buckingham Palace - IRA stuff and all that. Girl With Pearl Earring is the only one of the 'Vermeer Trilogy' that I have read - but I can highly recommend that one at least. Katherine Weber is a sometimes regular at Salon.Com and her novel was discussed sometime ago over there. The Vreeland book is supposed to be very good also, so I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. All three novels were inspired in some respects by the huge Vermeer exhibit that visited New York a few years ago.

Look for more books next year!!! The Met has a "Vermeer and the Delft School" exhibit thru May 27th. The Delft school figures prominently in the Chevalier book. Some of the paintings that come up in the Chevalier book are featured, although not the Earring one, which is in The Hague.

Here you can view all 35 of Vermeer's extant paintings. The Concert was one of the paintings stolen from our Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston, which is a great little setting for the art it houses and for the Chamber Music concerts it sometimes has. Enjoy.

Charlie

The Vermeer Show was also in Washington, DC, and somewhere else, I think. I saw it in Washington. Such exquisite paintings including the Girl with the Pearl Earring who had a whole wall to herself.

I finished "The Girl with a Pearl Earring and "The Girl in Hyacinth Blue." Could not resist either book because of the Vermeer paintings.

Charlie, thank you for mentioning "The Music Lesson." I read that review last week, and it sounded like delicious reading. I will either buy it or get it from the library.

I prefer buying books than I don't have to rush and get them back to the library. I am reading "Wish You Well" by Baldacci. His setting is very breathtaking. The story takes place in the mountains of Virginia. It's a light read. This is the first book I have read by him. Aren't his other books a heavier read?

HATS

I just picked up "The Music Lesson" today. Thanks Charlie, for the update on the Vermeer Tiology books now available. Amazing that he completed so few paintings in his lifetime and how now, they are so prized.

HATS---I've listened to several of Baldacci's books on tape while commuting. None of the ones I've heard are "heavy."

Maryal, I'll have to try another one.

HATS

Hats: I too have read Wish You Well by David Baldacci. I read Saving Faith and enjoyed it. Right now I'm reading Simple Truth and really really like it. I encourage you to read all of David Baldacci's book because he is a good writer - seems to be a "clean" writer.

Good Reading,

Brumie

If you're a fan of British fiction, Booker Prize winners, or Penelope Fitzgerald - or would like to be - please join me for a discussion of the late, great Fitzgerald's two very different novels, The Bookshop and The Blue Flower, starting May 1.

Click on the link in the heading at the top of this page now, come on over, and let me know if you're considering joining the discussion!

WELCOME!!

Brumie, I will read Baldacci's other books. I enjoyed "Wish You Well" so much that I did not want it to end. I fell in love with the children and the adults helping them. I felt like the mountains of Virginia were calling to me. That is how real Baldacci made the setting.

HATS

I think I just mentioned in an e-mail a "think-book" I'm reading in bits that would really incite discussion, I think :-} that is Thomas Moore's CARE OF THE SOUL. Has anyone read it already?

Blurbs from the back of the paperback which was on the New York Times Best seller list

THOMAS MOORE is a leading lecturer and writer in North America and Europe in the areas of archetypal psychology, mythology, and the imagination. He lived as a monk in a Catholic religious order for twelve years and has degrees in theology, musicology, and philosophy.

QUOTES: JOHN BRADSHAW:

From Time to time I've been jolted by an extraordinary Book which stops my world. It forces me to look at reality in a different way -- a more expansive and meaningful way. I t has provided a missing piece for me.
JAMES HILLMAN:
The sincerity, intelligence and style -- so beautifully clean of Tom Moore's CARE OF THE SOUL truly moved me. The book's got strength and class and soul, and I suspect may last longer than psychology itself.:
ME: I find myself nodding and agreeing time after time although, some items elude me and I think a discussion would cast light on them. This from an avowed atheist.
Claire aka winsum

One of out WebTV'ers has suggested a book, but has been unable to access this discussion, so I thought I'd pass it along. She recommends a book entitled Victoria's Daughters by Jerrold M. Packard. It's a "group" biography of the daughter's of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. Did you know that, of Queen Victoria's daughters: one of them was the mother of Kaiser Wilhelm?; one of them was the mother of Alexandra, later the Tsarina of Russia?; one of them was the progenitor of the Mountbatten clan? Who knew?

Don't forget, that if you want to post in a discussion - and you are encouraged to do so - you just need to "register" if you have not done so before and "login" each time you visit. These words (register and login) can be found at the top of each page. Just click on them and follow the instructions.

Charlie

Hooray, Charlie is back. We've missed yu.

Hello, Andrea. How've you been???

Hi, Just dropping in to see what the future holds...

Andy, I find you everywhere.

I'd like to recommend books by two Native American writers that I would like to study in a group discussion. Is anyone interested?

House Made of Dawn by N. Scott Momaday, a 1969 Pulitzer Prize novel which tells the feeling of growing up Native American in the southwest today. It shares with the reader a sense of place and belonging.

Excerpt: "There was a house made of dawn. It was made of pollen and of rain, and the land was very old and everlasting. There were many colors on the hills, and the plain was bright with different colored clays and sands. Red and blue and spotted horses grazed in the plain, and there was a dark wilderness on the mountains beyond. The land was still and strong. It was beautiful all around."

A nice companion piece to this book (or a stand alone selection) is Momaday's very, very slim book The Way to Rainy Mountain. The book is an experiment in family myth/autobiography and it invites all readers to try their hands at this very accessible form. Wallace Stegner commented, "I know nothing quite like this book, and nothing of the Indian that is at once so authentic and so moving."

The third book that I recommend is the novel Ceremony by Leslie Marmon Silko. The book itself is a virtual healing ceremony for every reader and is austensibly about Tayo, a young Native American, returning from World War II whose experiences have almost destroyed his will to survive. He starts a quest for healing. I especially recommend it for a discussion following the reading and discussion of a sad, difficult, or violent book.

Abbreviated excerpt from the book's beginning:

CEREMONY
I will tell you something about stories,
(he said)
They aren't just entertainment.
Don't be fooled.
They are all we have, you see,
all we have to fight off illness and death.

You don't have anything
if you don't have the stories.

He rubbed his belly.
I keep them here
(he said)
Here, put your hand on it
See, it is moving.
There is life here
for the people.

And in the belly of this story
the rituals and the ceremony
are growing.

Like Pushkin and Dostoevsky, there is poetry but it is wholly integrated into the book which is part healing and part beautiful story. I feel it is important to connect to our own country and you definitely get that connection from these three books.

Marvelle

Thanks for the recommendations. Are any others interested in Ceremony by Leslie Marmon Silko?? Please let us know. I have asked those discussion leaders who primarily read non-fiction to also comment here.

Charlie

Hats- I have just finished David Balducci's "Saving Faith" and have enjoyed it. "Wishing You Well" is waiting patiently. He is a new author for me-I like what I read so far-sort of a little history and politics in an easy to take form! I am always looking for new, (to me) authors and I like the genre. Someone told me that Wishing You Well was somewhat different-I think it was one of the librarians. I looked for David Balducci's novels on one of your recommendations and am glad to report that I like him! I have not joined the Blind Assassin discussion-I could NOT get into that book at all. I have liked Atwood's previous books, but not this one. I just couldn't stick it! I also would like to recommend 'UP Island" for a discussion group-I read it twice! It is by Anne River Siddons and very enjoyable, I think! Thanks-Bye-Wilan

I think those books would be lovely to own and dip into many times. Count me in. . . . Claire

We read Up Island in Spring of '99..

Here is the Archived Discussion of Up Island

marvelle9, winsum, everybody: Stay tuned. We hope to put together a discussion of House Made of Dawn and possibly even one of the other books along with it. Possibly sometime in August. Thanks for the suggestions.
Charlie

Hello everyone. I'm not much of a message board type, but I had to share this. My daughter bought me a book called "What's Wrong With Dorfman? by a writer named John Blumethal. I couldn't put it down, laughed out loud about 50 times and was real sorry when it was over. It's about this crazy character who wakes up oine morning with a mysterious disease. FIVE STARS in my book!!!

So, what WAS wrong with Dorfman, anyway??

Can't tell you what's wrong with Dorfman. I'd spoil the surprise.

You may find the reviews of WHAT'S WRONG WITH DORFMAN here:

http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=1PUO3G8BAX&mscssid=E5W3C0QTM30J8NWAXFARK56GEHS78J01&isbn=0967944406

Thanks, Jack! Reminds me somewhat of the crazy antics of Woody Allen.

I wondered if people were interested in discussing Michael Chabon's 2001 Pulitzer Prize winning novel, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay.

I've included a description of it in the Prized Fiction discussion here:

sysop "---Prized Fiction - Prize Winners/Nominees" 5/17/01 10:40am

Here's my vote for East of the Mountains. Critics or not, it is a good read - I thought the charagterization of the main character was incredibly good.

My suggestion is "Scarlet Feather" by Maeve Binchy.

Her books never fail to entertain me. I've never been to Ireland, and she makes me want to vis

Marilyn

Yes, I plan to read Chabon's book.

Linda

I'd like to suggest David McCullough's new biography, John Adams. Just bought it last night and so have only started, but I know a winner when I see one.

I think the book would appeal to people who love biographies as well as people who love history.

Maryal

I second John Adams.

We've been talking about this book in History. Some have already committed to reading it; I am one who will be interested in talking about this book.

A definite yes on the John Adams' biography. I watched an interview of, then a long presentation at the Library of Congress from, David McCullough. I've ordered it.

That is more than a quorum.

Yep, we have plenty of people and we haven't even advertised yet!

I saw McCullough speak at the Library of Congress also (on CSpan2) and was so moved when he said that had Abigail Adams not been the wife of a president and the mother of another, she would still be known today because of her correspondence. She had NO formal schooling and was still John Adams intellectual mate. He discussed everything with her.

Maryal

Hi Wilan,

I am glad you enjoyed Balducci. I have read "Up Island," and enjoyed that one too. I like Anne River Siddons. I have trouble spelling her name. I finished "Chocolat," and I want to read "Five Quarters of the Orange." Both of these are by Joanne Harris. I want to read her other book, "Blackberry Wine." I love that title.

At the moment, I am trying to finish "Bee Season." It is written by Myla Goldberg. I just walked in my bedroom, and there are books flowing off the bed onto the floor. I will have to pick them all up before my husband comes home from work. Perhaps, I can convince him to stop by the library and pick up a copy of "The Ice Child" by Macgregor, on second thought, I better drive there myself this weekend.

Marvelle, I have a copy of "Ceremony" on my bookshelf. I have read it and would love to reread it.

This is a book that I would like to read with a group because I am afraid that it is beyond my understanding. The title is "Sophie's World." The author is Jostein Gaarder.

It is a book about philosophy. Supposedly, it is told in layman's terms. I have begun it, and it is not hard to read. I just need help.

"Sophie's World" is the #1 international bestseller that has captivated millions--a wondrous journey of intellect and imagination that will make you look at life through the eyes of a child again."

"First, think of a beginner's guide to philosophy, written by a schoolteacher....Next, imagine a fantasy novel..."

"A comprehensive history of Western philosophy as recounted to a 14-year-old Norwegian schoolgirl....The book will serve as a first-rate introduction to anyone who never took an introductory philosophy course..."

by Jose Saramago, the 1998 Noble Prize winner for literature. This book was banned in Portugal, but I'm not sure if it still is. I would love to discuss this book with a group, as it will make for quite an intense happening. It's a compassionate book, even if it's a defiance of the authority of the Church. It's not a denial but he makes us look at weaknesses in our beliefs and thoughts. ine

INE. I would love to read another selection of Suramago. We read Blindness last year and it was one of our finest discussions. Hats, thank you for the referral. Sophie's World sounds interesting to me.

Thank you, Alf. Yeahhhh!!! Still, I won't get my hopes too high.

Penelope Fitzgerald's novel The Blue Flower was the most admired novel of 1995, chosen 19 times as "Book of the Year" in the year-end newspaper roundups that year.

If you'd like to discuss this fascinating novel, please join us for the discussion, which commences TODAY, June 3, as part of our continuing conversation about two of Fitzgerald's novels.

Come on over!

"---Blue Flower/Bookshop~by Penelope Fitzgerald~Prized Fiction"

Wonderful, Hats! You've read "Ceremony" and would like to read it again. I hope we can read this together at SeniorNet. And I am definitely interested in a discussion on "Sophie's World". I'm going to look for the book today.

I've been reading the posts for Fitzgerald's two books. Really nice insights, so much more can be found in a book if you take time to discuss it with other booklovers. I read the "Bookshop" a while back and found it very sad. For anyone who wants to feel that bookshops can succeed, I suggest the nonfiction book by Sylvia Beach, "Shakespeare and Company," about opening her bookshop in Paris, her trials with censorship, and the incredible community of writers she encouraged. I'm not thinking of Beach's book as a discussion suggestion, just as a cure for the 'blues' of Fitzgerald's beautiful but sad novella.

--Marvelle

I should have said that I love Penelope Fitzgerald (which I do) but I couldn't squeeze discussing "Bookshop" into my schedule. She is a beautiful, lyrical writer. She writes the kind of books I like to read curled up in an armchair, a hot cup of mint tea on the side table, and muted music on the stereo.

Hats, if you like "Ceremony" I bet you'd like N. Scott Momaday's "House Made of Dawn". It is a complex book but -- IMO -- not as demanding as "Ceremony."

--Marvelle

--Marvelle

Hi Marvelle,

I won't be able to join the discussion about The Blue Flower, but I did enjoy The Bookshop. House Made of Dawn, I love the title and will check at the library this week for it.

You have gave us a lot to think about in Bros. K.

Hi Hats-Have been out of touch lately-busy 'stuff'! Ijust finished David Baldacci's 'Wishing you Well'-loved it! Listened to a book-on-tape. It is quite a different genre for him-a story of the Appalachians and their people. There was an interview with him at the end. He wrote of his people so that his children would know who they are and be proud! I am listening to 'The Winner' now. Normaly, I tire of the same author (if read all at once) but I really like him-he seems so down to earth! I listen to a great many UNABRIDGED versions-seem to have more time for them. Can listen and do other things at the same time. I still love to read, though. There is somnething about the written word! Perhaps, because we can put our own 'spin' on the book! If for no other reason, to see how the words are spelled!!!

I love Anne River Siddons. I just listened to Low Country by her. It was not as great as 'Up Island', but I liked it! I am not as familiar with the South as I am with the East Coast and that is probably the reason I did not relate to the story as well.

I do not seem to be interested in any of the books that the on-line club is reading at present, but I still lurk (waiting my chance!) Right now, I am waiting for Maeve Binchy's Scarlett Feather. I think I am 57th on the list at the library!

Wilan

Hi Wilan,

I am lurking too. I have become too involved with other books. I would love to read Scarlet Feather by Maeve Binchy. I like all of her books. I liked Tara Road, an I liked Evening Class. When I finished Evening Class, I wanted to learn how to speak Italian. What a laugh!!!

I would like to nominate my book, Shipmates for discussion. If you would like to take a look, please go to http://www.shipmates1.com. You can view a sample chapter there. It's a true story--written with novel techniques. Readers have put it in the same category as Kearnan's Crossing the Line. I hope you'll take a look.

I'm not sure what TITLE above means. I'll give it the name of a book for discussion. IMO it is one of Louis L'Amour's best. It is the story of U.S.Air Force Major Joe Mack. When his experimental aircraft is forced down in Russia and he escapes a Soviet prison camp, he must call upon the ancient skills of his forbears to survive the vast Siberian wilderness. Only one path lies open to Mack. It is the path of his ancesters, overland to the Bering Strait and across the sea to America. But in pursuit is a legendary tracker, the Yakut native Alekhin, who knows every square foot of the icy frontier--and who knows that to trap his quarry he must think like a Sioux. The suspense is outstanding, you can't put it down.

I'm looking forward to reading the Adams biography. They have always been a fascinating couple.

I would like to recommend Anne Perry's Half Moon Street. I have read her books before, but this one surprised me with the broadness and effectiveness of her social commentary, in the midst of a quite good murder mystery. She explores censorship vs. unprincipled artistic license, the long term effects of hidden sexual abuse, the lead the arts and media take in forming public opinion..... Lots to discuss in this book. And her viewpoints are beautifully expressed in the growing insight of one of the lead characters, Caroline Fielding. ...Babi

This is a remarkable book. Even more remarkable when you realize the hours and hours of research that went into writing the book by author Laura Hildenbrand. It really brings the history and people surrounding this famous race horse to life. Once started I could not put it down. Has anyone else read it?

Just wanted to share two of the several good books I've read lately- Lost Daughter of Happiness and The Bonesetter's Daughter. At first I thought Bonesetter was getting rather formula, but then I kept going and saw a wonderful pattern- a really good cross generation work.

I've been having trouble getting the selected books from the library- or they do arrive just about when discussion is over. I will try to get on the list for Momaday and Silko early, I would not like to miss that discussion.

Hi YiLi. Haven't seen you around for awhile.

YiLi - I saw Amy Tan read from The Bonesetter' Daughter a couple of months ago and was very inspired by her presentation. She is a fascinating woman. I too have resisted her recent books as somewhat formulaic, but I am eager to read the book after hearing her.

Yes Sarah, go for it. I don't want to give it away, but it takes to about 2/3 to really get the BANG. We start out in present time- 'the daughter' it is so real life you wonder where was the challenge, then we do 'the mother' ah so of course its a mother/daughter book- but then....then...we get the STORY set in an historical perspective. Great read. I would not finish it today while waiting for car repairs, I am saving the very last for a lemonade read in the yard ...alone.

YiLi and Sarah, I bought and sent the Bonesetter book to my mother for Mother's Day, hoping that she would loan it to me. What a reader she is. I sent 4 books, that one, 2 of history and (?) one other. About a week and a half after Mother's Day she said she had finished them all. When I was in Berkeley and she visited, we rented and watched Joy Luck Club...remember (if you've seen it) how long it was...3 1/2 hours, I think. The minute it ended, Mother said, let's watch it again. I nearly fell out of my chair. SO unusual of her to want to do that. So, I remembered that she liked Amy Tan.

Betty, what a great mom you have! Sounds like my dad!

As the author of "Born Of War," I respectfully offer the book for your reading group, and myself for participation in any discussion thereof.

Based on a true story, "Born Of War" is several love stories, as well as a tale of a unique friendship that sprang up between several American servicemen in the Flying Tigers in WWII and a handful of Chinese University students and their friends who lived in the area.

The friendship grew until it became a central part of all their lives, eventually bringing them all to Mao Zedong's dinner table (hence the cover photograph of one of the GIs standing next to Mao).

Written from many hours of taped interviews, the book also gives a rare look at the hopes and dreams of both Chinese citizens of that era, and a variety of American servicemen.

For more information, press coverage and a look at several chapters, visit http://www.bornofwar.com or contact me, Dave Feldman at dave@eface.com

Best regards, dave feldman

This book, by Michael Cappuzzo, is a fascinating social document about life among the wealthy vacationers at the glittering NJ beach resorts in 1916, and a rogue, killer shark that terrorized them that summer. It's at least as fascinating as "Jaws," and happens to be true. Cappuzzo's style of writing is very detailed and well-researched, and is never for one second boring. It makes great summer reading!

Hannette

During WWII I sent home over 300 letters to my family in Chicago. My mother saved every one of them and these letters have now been compiled into a book entitled “Seeds Of Hope”. This book is published by the Purdue University Press and is available on the Internet from amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, borders.com or the Purdue Press.

This book I suggest for discussion. It's his 4th book but his other three were wonderful also.

Thanks, d.lou. I'll put that on the list.
Charlie

I vote for Back When we Were Grownups and Sophie's Choice.

I simply cannot vote for 2, as there is only one I would participate in reading and I would feel hypocritical voting for a second choice! I mean, how can NO CHOICE be a second choice and how can what really amounts to a NO VOTE be counted as a vote?

I'm puzzled, MP. Say Again??

Can you trust me for now to just cast one vote - for Back When We Were Grownups? I love Anne Tyler's books and eagerly wait for her next each time I finish her latest. I did read the reviews and the excerpt to make sure this book sounds as wonderful as the others. I can hardly wait.

I'd like to take the time to read reviews, etc. on the other "nominees" and come back with my second vote later. OK?

Sure, Diane. Plenty of time - no rush. I'll put you down for Anne Tyler for one pick.

By the way, if someone only wants to vote for ONE book - go right ahead - just one book one vote (or is that one man, one vote...)

I would like to read Back When We Were Grownups. ....elizabeth

Yes. I knewAnne Tyler would be a popular choice...You can vote for two if you want to Elizabeth. Remember we're voting for TWO selections (October and November).

Back When We Were Grown-ups, and Sophie's Choice.

Lorrie

Girl With A Pearl Earring

I'd also really, really like to read SAVAGE BEAUTY by Nancy Milford. Note, that is MILford, not MITford. Confused me utterly for a bit. This is a biography of Edna St. Vincent Millay.

Not to be published until September, there is a fascinating excerpt in the AUGUST 2001 Vanity Fair.

Thanks, Mary [EDIT: Mary Page - see. I remembered]. I'm keeping a list of new suggestions for when we have the next go around of voting, so will add the Milford. I'll also alert Ella (remember - I'm the fiction guy - don't confuse me with reality)

Back When We Were Grownups and Girl with a Pearl Earring

My votes: Back When We Were Grownups, so glad to see this on the list! Also Girl With a Pearl Earring.

Your votes are in , Paige!

I think this is going to make for a very exciting Fall season here in the Books, and you can see that the suggestions of you, our valued participants, ARE being listened to. The John Adams book and the Icebound are directly from suggestions given in our discussions and now you have the opportunity to pick TWO more for the Fall.

Sarah, I agree we will want to look at that book, of course you know we are expecting you to get Amy Tan to come to our CA Bookfest next year, right? We have full confidence in you! hahahaha

That one we will revisit in the future as well as several others, I just got in the mail the one Northwest recommended, Close to Shore, which is a true story that rivals Jaws, and is very readable, we may want to look at it again, too.

So many good books, so little time, but what a Fall Season we have to look forward to!

I think I'll vote for Back When We Were Grownups, Chas, and for my second selection, Bee Season, just for the heck of it, I like the premise and understand it's very discussable.

ginny

Just checking in.....not voting because I will be up to my ears in Henry IV and a bunch of other plays come the end of August. But I will get to that discussion of the Adams book.

Maryal

Ok, Ginny. Recorded. Thanks.

Charlie

If you do not read Bee Season,you will denying yourself of one on the most incredibly satisfying books of the past few years.

The characters are etched with such exquisite detail,that they live and breathe on every page. There is nothing two dimensional about the plot or characterization,and the pathways that your brain and feelings go down,as you read,are nothing short of revelatory.

This was a book that I could not wait to get to the next page and I felt so bad when it ended (not because of what transpires)but because I wanted the story to keep on going.

My wife and I and several of our friends and relatives read this book a few months ago,and we still discuss it all the time.

It's not a "classic",but,for me,it really touched a deep part of some inner working.

Well, isn’t it nice to hear from Ed Zivitz! Long time no hear from, Ed. And I’ll tell you. That’s recommendation enough for me. I’m voting for Bee Season. I’ve read three of the other books and would recommend very highly (and my second vote): The Feast of Love. A number of memorable quirky characters, all of whom you come to care about in some way.

Girl With…was a very nice book also – with a memorable central character, and would make for a good discussion. Sophie’s Choice, read many years ago, I’ve always felt was a great, great book. Wonder how I’d find it today?? Very discussable – would make a good comparison to The Reader by Bernard Schlink, I think (…..groan).

Charlie

Okay, sold. My second vote (I still have one, Charlie!) goes to BEE SEASON.

See? That came in handy.

You're right, as usual.

I'm sold, too! Thanks for the great review, Ed. My second vote goes to Bee Season.

From the Central Coast of California to the Bay of Annapolis - BS picks up Mo.
(That's Bee Season gathers momentum...)

Charlie

Hats-I just re-read 'The Glass Lake'-Maeve Binchy's books remind me of 'Gone With The Wind'! I get something new from them everytime I re-read them and I never tire of her. I loved 'Evening Class'-will probable re-read it some day-there are SO MANY books! I remember reading somewhere that President Truman read every book in his library. It must have been a VERY small library-there just doesn't seem to be enough time. You will like 'Scarlet Feather'. She does such a good job bringing all of her character together in a most absorbing story. Wilan

Well, Charlie, BS picks up mo as well.

sorry

no, i'm not

For my second choice, I would like The Bee Season (more MO)..........elizabeth

Hey!!!, that's not fair, Ed. A passionate review in the middle of voting??? Why didn't I think of that!!

p.s. People who bought Bee Season also bought (according to Barnes and Noble): White Teeth, House of Sand and Fog, Poisonwood Bible, Prodigal Summer and Drowning Ruth. We've read the first 4 together.

betty

Thanks, elizabeth.

Betty- I always get the eerie feeling when reading those B&N "people who bought" things that they get all their purchase data from SeniorNet!

PS- I've finally got my purchase of a kid's Xmas book from B&N some years ago expunged from my record, or something. For the longest time I had the darndest book recommendations...

Charlie, I've given up on my Amazon-produced recommendations after buying toys, coloring books and books for two nephews and niece. But, hey, anytime I'm yearning for the latest star-fighter from Star Wars, it's right there on my list. (Jar Jar is my favorite character.)

No Fair!

Just chill off, Betty!

Jar Jar is MY favorite!

Sorry, I had'em first!! Jar Jar and I go waaay back.

Chicago Author Seeking Bookstores & Presentation.

My 1st. book: RETURN OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN ( A true experiences of an American born Black man who traveled to and lived in Ghana, West Africa, for eleven years, 1965/76..)

Second book: WHAT'S A COMMIE EVER DONE TO BLACK PEOPLE? (My Korean war memoir)

PS:You can check me out here>> http://home.talkcity.com/BookmarkBlvd/kojoman/MySankofa.html

Sincerely. Curtis James "Kojo" Morrow

the Author.

John Adams kept me enthralled for all 700 pages. The grandchildren were in the pool and I read for 3 days while watching them. Can't wait for this discussion!

Joanmarm: Thank you for your interest in the David McCullough, “John Adams” biography and our discussion scheduled to begin Nov. 15th. There has been much national interest in this book and it seems to be emerging as a major American historical work offering new ideals concerning the early leadership of our nation. I think it will make an exciting Senior’s Net discussion. You and all other readers of the book are welcome to participate. Also you might want to check out the History Book Form where some of the early debate leading to the scheduling of the discussion occurred.

ED!

It's so good to hear from you again! Your description of Bees was so stirring that I'm going to buy the book. I've already voted or I would change my vote. I trust your opinion.

Lorrie

This was a post from Mary Page in Nickel and Dimed, has anybody read this book?

"I read about another book we ought to look into as a follow up to this one we have just read. It is called THE BROKE DIARIES and is by Angela Nissel.

Nissel has been very, very impoverished and came up with a lot of things to do to survive. Sort of the Heloise of being poor."

Lorrie

Ed, I read a very glowing review of "The Bee Season". Looks like a winner. Maybe some of our other readers might consider this one, too!

Lorrie

speaking of "Bees"- I just finished a book called the Honey Thief.> It's a sweet first novel about a woman and her child who find that they can't move ahead with their lives until they can look clearly back at their past. the father/husband has died and they move from Manhattan to a quiet little town in upstate NY to live a "normal" life. Tensions mount between the two and the 11 yr old makes friends with a reclusive beekeeper who lives down the road who ultimately helps the two find their way back to each other. all kinds of stuff about bees, honey combs, queen bees, etc in this one. The other one has to do with spelling bees, correct?

One of my all-time favorite books was about bees. Written by a woman, Sue something, and I think I read it in 1989.

What happens when you have read, dare I say the forbidden words here?, perhaps too many books, you remember the subject matter, much of the tale, all of the pleasure, and not much more!

Why, MaryPage, it only means it's time for another best seller.

MaryPage, you're thinking of Sue Hubbell, a professional beekeeper and self-taught naturalist. She's written a number of wonderful books including "The Country Year" and "A Book of Bees." It is a fluke that I even remember her. So many books and so little time!

-- Marvelle

Marvelle, you are a wonder!

That's the VERY author! Wonderful book that made my all-time top favorites list. If any of you missed it at the time, go back and find it!

Would like to give my vote to BACK WHEN WE WERE GROWNUPS, which I have read, with immense pleasure. But I am hesitant about vote # 2.

I have read GIRL WITH A PEARL EARRING; it was discussed at length in one of the LIVE groups to which I belong. One member, an artist, brought books with portraits by Vermeer; we explored, she explained, and we all guessed who was who in the book. It was an unusual, visually-enhanced experience. Still, I hesitate.

Is there a deadline ? Traude

Traude- We're looking at August 15th for the vote deadline. However, we may call the October winner at that time and extend the vote for #2 (November) for a bit. I added your vote for Tyler. Plenty of time. P.S. - They're making a movie out of Pearl...

Charlie

this is the first time that I have actually read two of the choices before submittal. I have read Back When We were Grownups and would love to discuss this book and am now into Sophies's World- a crash course in Philosophy 101.

Unfortunately, there has been some misunderstanding about one of the books up for voting:

Sophie's Choice, William Styron's masterpiece about holocaust survivor Sophie, made into a wonderful movie starring Meryl Streep in the title role. This is the book up for selection
Sophie's World: A Novel about the History of Philosophy, by Jostein Gaarder. Philosophy 101, as Alf says. "Designed for young readers, this novel is an entertaining story about a young girl who attempts to unravel a puzzling mystery by applying the theories of various philosophers--from Berkeley to Kant" - according to the Publisher.

Sorry for the confusion.

CharlieW

If this is a fiction group, guess I'm in the wrong group. Just finished reading a fascinating book entitled: Noah's flood. It discusses how the Black Sea was overwhelmed by the Mediterranean and how the story of the flood spread through Russia, Anatolia, the Middle East etc. Supposedly started in 6700 BCE.

Fiction and non-fiction and everything in between. Thanks for the suggestion
CharlieW

Holy smokes Charlie. Sophies Choice? I can't believe the number of times that I have looked at this page and saw Sophie's World. Oh bother!!!

Confused and Contrary

And presumably old .............

We allow that here. In fact, we encourage it.

Let me be more explicit. We DEMAND it!

My first vote is for "Back When We Were Grownups" Have just started it and am completely engrossed.

I think the second is 'Sophies Choice" Have never read it-I think I saw Meryl Streep's movie-not sure, but intend to order it from library Book and video! Wilan

Thank you, Wilan. I've added your votes to the total.

This is easy: Anil's Ghost #1- those of you who have not read it will be really surprised. and #2 Feast of Love- any review that likens a work to that of Tim O'Brien must be good and I too can relate to an author who has digested the Man Without Qualities.

Yi Li- Your votes have been addded. You mention A Man Without Qualities. On the back burner is the possibility of offering that book(s) for discussion. You game?

Charlie

Bonjour vous. Hi! MaryPage my friend.

It's my first time in this discussion. My reading is about 50% in French so my knowledge of American authors is limited but I have enjoyed quite a few good reads. I'm surprised that I know that many listed in these discussions. Some of them I read in the French translation (Brothers Kamarazof) and others.

What I have missed that I enjoyed tremendously are books by James Michener. I think I read all of his books once and some of them twice. I like the style of Russian authors.

Since I am looking for a good book discussion, I still have to "lurk" around for awhile before I make a choice and take the plunge.

In Montreal, my library has a very small section for English books. A larger section for translated books. But I have several second hand book stores to go to. We also have Chapters that I think is an American Book Chain.

Don't be surprised with my English writing. Its better than my spoken English.

Hi all: Like my friend Eloise I, too, am here for the first time. I have always loved books and have been a voracious reader all of my life. "John Adams" is one discussion I am anticipating with pleasure. Although I customarily read more non-fiction than fiction I, as does Eloise, enjoyed all of Mitchners' books--particularly his earliest ones. Among my most favorites were "The Source", "Centennial" and his book about Hawaii from which "South Pacific" was taken. There are others the titles of which I can't remember at this moment. Figures, doesn't it? A book i am enjoying right now is "Washington", the memoires of Meg Greenfield who was a journalist and writer for decades in New York. She was the closest friend of the late, great Katherine Graham. I believe her Biography "Personal History" was discussed before my time with Senior Net--a pity--it's a terrific book.

I'll talk with you again, Mary W

Welcome Mary W. The John Adams discussion will begin in November. I have it sitting here on my shelf, staring me in the face, begging to be opened.

Eloise and Mary W., thrilled to see you both. I'll be part of the JOHN ADAMS come November. So far, I have just been cutting out book reviews and sticking them in my copy of the book.

Wow what a challenge, yep man without qualities would be a challenge- but perhaps an amazing discussion. i finally got nickel and dimed but way too late for the discussion, seems i am really down on the lists lately for the various books.

are we limited to one a month?

There is Carolyn G. Heilbrun, the author of WRITING A WOMAN'S LIFE. I would like to suggest her last book THE LAST GIFT OF TIME, life beyond sixty. The book has 16 essays about different subjects. Several are on the poets and authors she has taught and written about, and she not only talks about the rewards of aging, but of feminist battles fought and won. One of the sayings in this book is on the Book and Literature Website. ine

I would like to pick ANIL'S GHOST by Ondaatje, because I found it hard reading on my own and feel i might get more out of it with a group. Also BEE SEASON by Myla Goldberg because a friend suggested it strongly. thanks! ine

YiLi Lin - Musil's The Man without Qualities is one of the projects I have tucked away that I'd like to do someday if there was enough interest in doing it.

ine - Betty Gregory here, is a big fan of Heilbrun - have you talked to her about Heilbrun's work? Your suggestion is actually a very good one, I think. I'll add it to the list for future consideration. I've added your votes to the tally. Thanks.

Please vote for October up until August 15th. We'll keep the vote open for November a bit longer. Thanks.

Charlie

I vote for Anil's Ghost and Girl with a Pearl Earring . I loved Sophie's Choice when I read it when it came out. Find Tyler to be too much of a one-note singer & don't even want to consider that one. Have no knowledge of Goldberg or Baxter books at all. Thoroughly enjoyed Anil and Girl. Found the latter to be an interesting writing exercise that was extended.

Thanks, Meg. I've added your votes to the tally above
(read Feast of Love if you get a chance)

Charlie

Has anyone read The Novel by Michener? That revs up that reading addiction to much higher rpms!!

Linda

Not, I - but did't I just see some Michener fans about??

Hairy - Surprised myself that I read "The Novel" by Michener and I am I right when I think this is a biography. I loved it.

Could anyone tell me what "John Adams" is about?

Hey I can do that one Eloise. John Adams is a biography by David McCullough, about John Adams our 2nd president, one of our "founding fathers."

I did read Michener's Novel, thinking I'd enjoy learning how he did historical research, etc. The book was a disappointment, much as some novels of his I'd started. I think it was Hawaii or maybe Centennial that I really loved, eons ago, so I kept expecting to like subsequent books.

Glad some other's of you have read or are interested in reading Anil's Ghost- there was so much to learn in that novel, both through characters and setting. Books like that remind us we are part of a much bigger world than we sometimes imagine.

So Charlie, perhaps we need a site just for mini projects in the back of our minds ?

Who knows it might be a good idea that would provide opportunities for wider participation.

Say more, Yili, about what you mean by "mini projects." Please.

Since Bee Season seems to have several admirers, I just saw it listed on the Book Exchange, if you hurry over there you might be able to get it for a buck and change?

ginny

Betty I was thinking that we go with consensus for the major discussions each month- and that's a good thing and probably one of the main reasons seniornet book discussion is so great. but i also think we miss out on additional shared reading- people often comment on, make reference to or propose some amazing books. i was thinking we could perhaps set up some 'alternative reading' discussions, they might not be filled and maybe won't last as long but would give us a chance to share insights about additional books.

also appreciate that it would be difficult for discussion leaders to commit to more work, but perhaps these alternative sites could gather around some focus questions- only requiring facilitation every now and then rather that constant attention from a discussion leader. we could announce the guidelines- especially about courtesy and respect for diverse opinions- and also exhort participants to not enter the discussion seeking lots of attention and recognition from a leader- they do a wonderful job with that but i venteure it is time consuming -

and my overall philosophy is that you don't know if something will work or not until you try it? so perhaps you can toss the idea around, talk to charlie et al, see what people think.

Back again after a trip to the hot north woods of Wisconsin. While there I finished a book titled IN HARMS WAY by Doug Stanton, which I found hard to lay down. It is the very interesting story of the sinking of our Cruiser Indianapolis in the last days of WWII. It was the ship that carried the atomic bomb to the island of Tinian for its final run to Hiroshima. It's heart wrentching story of the 300 survivors, and the after effects of their experience is a story I really never knew, even though I was right there on Tinian at the time. I would like to suggest it as a book for discussion in the future.

I last participated in the discussion on Stephen Ambroses latest book,"Nothing Like it in the World", and occasionally look in on American Democracy by D'Toqueville. and I look forward to the John Adams discussion.

Thanks. I've made a note of that one and added it to the list for future consideration.
CharlieW

Williewoody, so glad to see you again, I've taken the liberty of copying your post over to the History Forum, we have some very keen WWII buffs there and they would love to hear this and you may be interested in our latest historical thing, too, do join us there.

YiLiLin, what an interesting proposition, I defer here to our Fiction Coordinator and we'll see what the DL's think, thank you for your innovative ideas!

ginny

I would like to nominate the novel EVENSONG by Gail Godwin as a possibility for book discussion. Although it is a sequel to FATHER MELANCHOLY'S DAUGHTER, the reader does not need to have read the earlier book to understand EVENSONG.

From one human bean to another. Thanks. I've added that to our futures list.

I'd like to vote for "Girl with a Pearl Earring." I just know that I'd learn a lot about history and the art of that period, and the concept of the novel is intriguing. Plus, it will be nice to compare the movie to the book. For my second choice, I would say "Bee Season."

I like the idea of shorter projects. It could be a very creative arena. What about comparing short stories with a similar theme or subject but by different writers? Or is this too limited? For instance, Isaac Babel and Frank O'Connor's stories influenced by Maupassant's life and art. There's another excellent writer on this subject but I've forgotten who she is at the moment. Or how about reading short novellas. Other projects?

-- Marvelle

Marvelle---Are you thinking of short stories by Flannery O'Connor, maybe? She is awesome--and very odd.

Or if you are thinking of a he, and a writer of books of mystery involving art treasures, with a lot of history thrown in, by a very excellent contemporary writer, how about Iain Pears?

Thanks, marvelle9: I added you votes to the list. Final few days to vote for October selection. We'll go until September 1 for the November book. I appreciate people coming here with ideas for projects, too. I'm keeping a list of those also, to kick around with Discussion Leaders who might be interested in picking up on some of them.
Charlie

Maryal -- Actually not Flannery O'Connor who is awesome and strange. She's an earlier and very Southern version of Oates. No, I was thinking of Frank O'Connor, Irish writer, whose most well known story is "Guests of a Nation" but I also like "The Drunkard" and "Confession." His stories, like these last two, are often told from a child's viewpoint (but in mature language) and are hilarious and serious at the same time.

--Marvelle

Marvelle---I thought the "she" whose name you couldn't remember might be the other O'Connor. Let's see---are you thinking of Eudora Welty? I didn't think Frank O'Connor was a mistake. I was going for the author of short stories you couldn't remember the name of.

Ahhh. Well now I will definitely have to look up the author of the third Maupassant inspired story. "Her" name is on the tip of my tongue. How frustating that is. I'll be back in a couple of days with the name, I hope. But I was thinking of "themes" for short projects. Maybe a few short stories like the Maupassant types and an essay somewhat along the same line for comparison/contrast? The short projects is an exciting idea but my Maupassant concept unfortunately is too thin.

-- Marvelle

before the polls close, I would like to give my second vote to Anil's Ghost.

Short stories are a favorite of mine, and so is Canadian author Alice Munroe.

Charlie, what is the standing now for future books to be discussed? What about "The Bee Season" which got a hefty number of votes? A later date, perhaps?

Lorrie

IF you have not already voted - PLEASE VOTE FOR NOVEMBER's SELECTION until September 1st. The Book Club Online selection for October will be Anne Tyler's Back When We Were Grownups.

I just ordered Corelli's Mandolin. Even though I was more or less aware that the discussion was coming up, the name of the book was not yet on the main Books page Coming Attractions list. I see that list every time I come into Books, but I scroll past the lists in the welcome folder and others. Maybe other people see the in-the-folders New and Upcoming list as the place to look and the main Books page as the official, just-days-before-opening list...but I never have. My habit of looking on the main page might be in the minority, don't really know, but I probably would have ordered Corelli's Mandolin earlier if I'd seen it on the main page. I don't use subscriptions, so I see the main page...do those who use subscriptions skip the main page? Where do most people see the Coming Attractions lists? In the welcome folder? Are there reasons that the lists are different?

Betty- You have a good point. We are talking about ways to make it clear what discussions are coming up when, in a more uniform manner. Thanks for the heads-up.

Charlie

That's one of the first ones read here, yabanjin (but before my time). You can find the discussion in the archives (I hope).

Yabanjin should find the discussion that centered on Cold Mountain when it was read and discussed here back in 1998 by clicking on the link below to the Archives:

"Book Club Online: Cold Mountain" now in Archives...click here to go to that discussion

Yanbanjin- I see that , originally from Kentucky, you have read Offut. I read The Same River Twice awhile back. Have you read it? You may be interested in our discussion of Soul Mountain starting on Sep 1, also. You're welcome.

Charlie

Charlie W. Yes, I have read Same River Twice, and enjoyed it, though not so much as The Good Brother. The area Chris Offit writes about is within 40 miles of my old home place, and I imagine I've met a number of his characters personally. I'm looking forward to Soul Mountain. Thanks Yabanjin

Marjoriemary voting for "Girl with a Pearl Earring". A delightful book.

Thanks, Marjoriemary. I added your vote to the totals.

A couple of posters have suggested a book for future discussion, called "The Blue Diary" by Alice Hoffman. Has anyone heard of it, or read it? Sounds like a good one!

Lorrie

Thanks, Lorrie for bringing that here. I'll add that to the list when we consider new selections again. It's in the top 5 bestsellers in Boston at the moment.

mrubadue(kelli) i was just getting ready to read a book by james patterson "along came a spider". i had heard that his books were good. however i have not seen his name in readings tonight. any words on this? also i'll be hitting the sack soon - i'm trying to break a sleep cycle.

nite all i'll check in tomorrow. if i don't go now 12:25am i won't break cycle.

Rubadue du due
Do due due do do do due
do do do do due
Strangers in the night
exchanging glances
Wond'ring in the night
What were the chances
we'd be sharing love
Before the night was through
dueeeeeeee

Oh.
Sorry. I just had a Strange Interlude.

Hey Kelli! Have you checked out this discussion?: Action, Adventure, and Suspense/Horror

Charlie

mrubadue@rr.columbus.com

Please check you email address as when I emailed you it was returned saying mrubadue@rr.columbus.com>: Name service error for domain rr.columbus.com: Host not found.

Thank you.

Ginger

Charlie, I hope this is the proper place to say that I would like to do lead a discussion about S. King's "The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon" about the middle of October there abouts. Let me know how you feel about this. You can e-mail me if you like.

Bill H

Bill- Being a Red Sox fan (I'll leave out the obligatory "long suffering"), I shiver whenever I hear this title. As all Sox fans know, the downfall of Gordon as a Sox pitcher seemed to eerily coincide with the publication of this book! Creepy. If there are people that want to discuss it, Bill, that's all we need to know!

Charlie

This was suggested to me on Senior Chat, doubt if I can get it in UK Is it good?

Trudelight, I believe that is by May Sarton. Just a thought! If not, she has a book with the same title.

Several suggestions from a lurker. If you read a great book like JOHN ADAMS you should follow with FOUNDING BROTHERS by Joseph J. Ellis. It is an illuminating story of the intertwined lives of the founders of the American republic. Another suggestion for condieration, FLAGS OF OUR FATHERS by James Bradley. It is not only the story of the six men who raised the flag on Iwo Jima but of the terrible war and it's staggering cost in human life. Every American ought to read this book. So far as I know both are in hard cover. A third book well worth reading (in paper) is AHAB'S WIFE by Sena Jeter Naslund. Disguised as a boy Una earns a birth on a whaling ship where she enounters the power of nature, death and madness and gets her first glimpse of Captain Ahab. "A new perspective on the American experience--a bright book of life."

Suggestions only, delete if desireable. RUSS

Racer Russ Oh do stick around and read John Adams with us which is scheduled for November. Ahab's Wife has been suggested before. Maybe we should look into this. Have you read the other 2 books that you have suggested post John Adams?

I'd be interested in participating in a discussion series on and about this book with those who have read it. It can be slow going, but if it's in tune with your thinking, we all ought to exchange views. If you haven't yet become fascinated with its potential for thought and creative thinking, figure on about a month to get through it. Use your highlighter, and then toss your hat in the ring! -Walt.

Walt, I've added that to our list. Thank you.
Charlie

Yes, ALF, I have read the three books I suggested

Anyone who is interested in the life and times of queen victoria will enjoy this book. for all their wealth and position Victoria's daughters did not have an easy life, I have other titles on this subject if anyone is at all interested. Miriam Wolff.

ALF, I should have added that I have also read JOHN ADAMS, a truly great book. I'll try to hang in for some of the discussion.

RUSS

Great! I am in the middle of that one as we speak. I truly think it is one of the finest biogrophies I've read in years. It has been well received and rightly so, IMHO. I have an appreciation of Adam's courage, erudition, perseveance and dedication to republican ideals, that was long overshadowed by Goe. Washington, and Jeffereson. Amazing how their lives were all entwined. McCulloghs storytelling hides his painstaking scholarly research behind this book.

Hi Everyone: I have a couple books I'd like to suggest. One is by Rebecca Wells, Little Alters Everywhere. It is the first book to, Divine Secrets of the Ya Ya Sisterhood. The other book is by Effie Leland Wilder. The author ( Effie ) is, in real life, in a nursing home. She writes about being in "Fair Acres". Shewrites a fun, funny, positive view of being in the nursing home.It is fun to read her books. There are 3 or 4 of them. The first one is called, Out to Pasture,but not over the hill, she wrote this one in 1995, at 85 yrs.old. She has also added to this, Over What Hill, notes from the pasture, and Older but Wilder, more notes from the pastures. I sincerely think everyone would LOVE these. Thank you, Leann

I read the Rebecca Wells books, and loved them. Every female in my huge family full of females (3 daughters, 7 granddaughters, etc.) read them!

Thanks, Leann. My wife also passed YaYa around to quite a few of her friends.

Hi, LeAnn:

Those are very interesting suggestions, especially the one written by the 85-year old lady in a nursing home. That would surely appeal to all the little ladies in this building where I live. I've made a note, and will look into these books. Thank you!

Lorrie

I'd like to suggest "Bel Canto" by Ann Patchett. What a writer---style, story, psychological build-up--it's all there. She tells the ending at the beginning, but when it comes, what an impact!! Even if you don't select it for the book club, read it and wish you had. This is a writer who's been around a while, but I just discovered her and am checking out her other books too.

Just finished reading Caravans. I found it to be a very compelling book and very timely. The setting is in Afghanistan and although it takes place in 1946, it is nonetheless a book which gives great insight into the minds of the mullahs (similar to the Taliban), and the mores and taboos of the Afghanistan people. Michener takes you into the countryside of deserts, mountains, and nothingness. And because I feel that the author is a writer of integrity and dilligently researches his subject matter, I highly recommend this book for discussion.

Thanks, tryxsie. I believe MaryPage also suggested this book earlier, perhaps in another discussion. A worthy suggestion. Thanks for bringing it here.

Yes, I did, Charlie. And I heartily concur with Tryxsie. Am just back from the SeniorNet International Bash in Williamsport, and have to catch up with everything in SeniorNet itself. Will be back later!

Oh, we had a Terrific Bash! Met 72 of the greatest people on this planet!

A very sweet book by an Irish author

Thanks, treasa, for the suggestion - and welcome to Books & Literature. Can you tell us a little more about this book?

Charlie

Good grief, I thought that they cancelled that bash.

Andrea - Go straight ahead for about a quarter-mile, make a right at the flagpole and you're almost there!!

Does anybody else feel like they're on "short circuit, besides me?"

What happened to the discussion on John Adams? I thought it was scheduled for November! Now, the schedule is telling me Bee Season-is John Adams scheduled later? Wilan

Wilan: John Adams is right on the Main Books and Literature page:

http://www.seniornet.org/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee6eef3

under Upcoming Discussions

and is opening on Nov. 1.

The specific URL for it is: Ella Gibbons "---John Adams~by David McCullough~Biography~November 1st"

I believe Bee Season is also starting on Nov. 1

Sorry. I found John Adams-am planning to join discussion, got the book after being 36th on the list at the library and sort of panicked when I saw Bee Season listed for November. Searched a little more and found Mr.Adams Wilan

I finished reading Caravans by James Michener not too long ago September maybe. It would make a good book discussion - REALLY WOULD AND REALLY GOOD!

Several people have mentioned Caravans, I wonder if there is some way we could find out how many people might join in a discussion of it? We would need, (our criteria here in the Books is) one Discussion Leader interested in leading it and two or more participants to make up a quorum??

I wonder also if anybody would be remotely interested in reading something by the new Nobel Prize winner V.S. Naipaul?

I have not read any of his books, and found the description of this one, A House for Mr. Biswas, to be fascinating? Is there any interest? It's not a new book.

Anthony Burgess called "a work of great comic power qualified with firm and unsentimental compassion." (We've read Anthony Burgess in the Book Club Online, too).

A House for Mr. Biswas follows the life of Mr. Mohun Biswas, a protagonist inspired by Naipaul's father, as he struggles to find his freedom and a house of his own. The son of a poor laborer in Trinidad, Mr. Biswas is forced to live as a guest in one crowded, inhospitable house after another. After his father dies, his family moves in with his mother's sister, Tara, and he is humiliated and beaten by Tara's brother-in-law Bhandat. Mr. Biswas vows, "I am going to get a job on my own. And I am going to get my own house too. I am finished with this" [p. 64]. He goes to work as a sign-painter for the Tulsi family, and there he begins a flirtation with Shama. After his love letter is discovered by Mrs. Tulsi, Mr. Biswas is bullied into marrying Shama, thus beginning a long and unhappy marriage that produces four children, a constant struggle for money, and countless bitter quarrels. After a brief and failed attempt to run a dry goods store in The Chase, Mr. Biswas and his family return to live with the Tulsi family, a pattern that recurs thoughout the novel. It is in Port of Spain that Mr. Biswas comes closest to happiness, working as a journalist for the tabloid Sentinel, writing outlandish stories, and achieving a degree of local fame. Here, too, his son Anand excels in school and shows signs of talent as a writer. But Mr. Biswas's fortunes suffer several reversals, and it is not until the very end of his life that he is finally able to buy a house--only to find the experience much different than he had imagined.

A vivid portrait of a man who fights to free himself from the entanglements of family, custom, and religion, A House for Mr. Biswas is also an unforgettable look inside colonial society at the beginnings of great transition.

I'm a fool for books on owning land or houses, is anybody remotely interested in reading this book?

ginny

Re Naipaul: Depending on the timing, I'd be interested in reading something I haven't read by Naipaul. Since I read Biswas many years ago, I might be interested in reading that, but can't commit.
Charlie

I agree that CARAVANS is great and timely reading, but will people be able to get hold of a copy?

I am more than a tad upset that JOHN ADAMS has been moved up to start at the same time as BEE SEASON, as I bought both and wanted to join both groups. Reading as fast as I can, but have not been able to even begin BEE SEASON yet! Not ready to take on more, but have promised to do OUR ORIENTAL HERITAGE with Robby. He speaks of the end of December, but I am hoping for January 3rd! We're going too fast for me!

Ginny/Charlie, I loved A House for Mr. Biswas and would be interested in discussing it here - maybe early next year?

Oh Sarah, I've been wondering where you were!!!

Well the Book Club Online does not have anything scheduled for December (or January for that matter) and I was thinking of it for December, or the Caravans depending on who all wanted to read it.

I think we need to send out a Book Bytes and see who all might be interested, let me go see if any DL, depending on time constraints, might want to try? We might do Caravans since there seems quite a crowd for December and Naipaul in January?

ginny

Ginny, sounds like a plan, if others are agreeable. Caravans is a Michener? I'm also intrigued by the new Jonathan Franzen, especially since he wants the Oprah label off his books!

I'm in the middle of my third Franzen book in a row and it's fascinating to see the progression of his writing. Clearly he has, from the first, had an ability to draw characters of great depth. What he has added in The Corrections is an unmerciful sense of humor.

Charlie

I have the Corrections but have not started it, I think I also have read something other of his, his name is very familiar, do you recommend it, Charlie, for a future discussion?

ginny

Not necessarily. I haven't finished it yet.

Caravans, as a fast read, might work well for December. Easy to read, if not fast. I suppose it's thick like the usual Michener? MaryPage said there was nothing outstanding about the story/plot but that the setting/history/flavor was wonderful. I think our reading it would provide a good backdrop to the more unsettling articles we're reading daily. Her one concern was availability. With enough lag time between a firm decision and a start date, I think we could find enough copies.

betty

CARAVANS is not one of Michener's usual over-long ones. I own the hardback, and it is 336 pages long, plus a 5-page :Note to the Reader" at the back. I strongly urge everyone to read that note at the back first. You will want to reread it after finishing the tale.

We are hearing more and more stuff about what Afghanistan is and is not, has been and has not. This book will set a lot of the lore straight. Going back to old National Geographics is extremely useful, as well.

Bottom line, there may be heaps of other books available, but this one sure puts you THERE in a very short reading time. It was published in paperback as well, and you might find it in a used paperback book store. It is old, having first come out in 1963.

Caravans is also available on our SeniorNet Barnes & Noble Bookstore in paperback, for $7.16, I think it is, click on the link in the heading here and type in Caravans. If you buy two books the shipping is free, and very quick?

AND Senior Net gets 7 percent of every sale.

We now have a Discussion Leader for Caravans and will somehow put out feelers as to if we can get a quorum for December 1. Charlie, what's the best way to do this?

Thanks to you all for your interest and recommendations.

ginny

My recommendation is - as always - to put up a temporary header in PROPOSED DISCUSSIONS section.

OK thank you, Charlie, it's up.

ginny

I just finished a compelling first book by Ronald E. Baird. Although the book is listed as a mystery-suspence novel, it's not the usual who-done-it. Set in a Colorado mountain town, the story focuses on an ex cop turned journalist who searches for the killer of a local activist who was attempting to keep a proposed gold mine from operating in their community. The locale has divided loyalties, and Baird depicts his cast of characters with a great depth of understanding. We feel he has fished every stream and hiked every trail mentioned within the pages. And his descriptions of an encounter with a mountain lion are frightening and poetic. Here is a gifted writer and his readers are anxious for a sequel. Dark Angel can be found on www.iuniverse.com or in Barnes and Noble. Rhoades

I'd like to suggest "Bel Canto" by Ann Patchett. Even though she clues us in to the ending, the psychological build-up is intense and the end has incredible impact. Think about it.

I would suggest Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry.

Linda

Thanks, for the suggestions LadyC and Linda.

Jon's Odyssey is an interesting account of a Norwegian 20 year old who signed on as a messboy for a cargo ship in 1939. WW II broke out and he was stranded in Africa for the duration in a prisoner of war camp. After WW II, Jon traveled the world and eventually settled in the USA. He is currently living in Raleigh, NC.

A wonderful, and magical story about a young Irish-American kid in Brooklyn, who befriends an immigrant rabbi from Czechoslovakia, and tells of how the two come together at a critical time in both their lives. How they learn from each other - and how the pairing triumphs over the evil wrought by Brooklyn street toughs - and how the various threads of their lives and their pasts are woven into a fascinating fabric produces a fast, fascinating and meaningful read, and touches quite wonderfully on the morality of our society, and how people relate. Hamill is a masterful story-teller, who draws liberally on his journalistic background in spinning this tale that combines tradition and mysticism with Brooklyn-tough realism.

Parman...we must lead parallel lives. I recently "read" Snow in August by Pete Hamil. It was terrific, although I got lost in the mystic ending.

Actually I listen to unabridged Books on Tape while I run. As I get slower, I can listen to longer and longer books. But I had to renew "A Man in Full" by Tom Wolf (25 tapes about 1 1/2 hour each.) Any suggestions for good sports books which are unabridged on tape.

Wonder if Lance Armstrong's new book is out in tape. That might be a good one for you.

Kathy

Thank you, Art33, parman, MortKail, and Kathy, for the super suggestions! They all sound really good.

Another one, Mort, might be the DiMaggio book, we once considered reading it, but apparently it's a bit of a hatchet job, the Lance Armstrong is reputed to be very inspiring, I'd like to read it myself and we have also discussed the possibility here as well.

Thank you for those suggestions, our Non Fiction Coordinator, Ella Gibbons, is always looking for good non fiction so visit the Non Fiction forum too, soon!

ginny

I read the Lance Armstrong book (he's from Austin, too) and think you'd really like it, Mort, if it's on tape yet. Iffy as a discussion book, but fine as an individual read.

Betty

Can I suggest "Mosquito" by Spielman & D'Antonio? They really love their subject & say things like "She is very beautiful". Everything they describe about the insect is graceful & subtle, even though she wreaks havoc wherever she lives. It's other agencies that use her to spread diseases, they report - but it's not a complete whitewash. They found that sickle-cell anaemia was probably the start of our body's attempt to prevent malaria developing, but there was a huge movement of people & change of climate so it was only half-finished.

Hi, viogert---You will most likely want to suggest Mosquito over here Ginny "---Non Fiction" 12/12/01 8:59am in the nonfiction suggestions. It certainly sounds like an interesting book.

I move myself over from here to the non-fiction department, click on the suggestions box & land back here again.

Where am I going wrong? Will I have to write out the stuff about "Mosquito" over again?

Viogert, that sounds like such an interesting book, I can think of several areas in the Books where people might enjoy it, including the Non Fiction area and the Scientific area, I agree with Maryal it sounds fascinating.

We do all kinds of books in the Book Club Online, so it's really a toss up, the Non Fiction folks are always wanting new titles suggested and anxious to know what people are reading in Non Fiction, (we're fighting over you! ahhaahah)

If you are happy with it here I will alert both Ella Gibbons (now on vacation till the 17th) our Non Fiction Coordinator and Nellie Vrolyk, who does the Scientific books to come here and look, up to you!

ginny

May I modestly suggest my own new novel, HITLER'S SON, a political thriller published by iUniverse.com. Since it is a POD (print on demand) book, it is best ordered over the internet but can be had from Barnes&Noble if ordered, though it will take a few extra days. Briefly, a cabal of unrepentant Nazis use Hitler's frozen sperm to impregnate their idea of the ideal German woman, to create an "Uebermensch" whom they intend to become President not of Germany but of the USA.They succeed, until a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter digs into the man's background at the risk of his life. That's all I'll tease you with today. Good hunting

Mosquito does sound like a very interesting book. I already have added it to my wishlist of books I want. It would make a good science book discussion but I'll wait to see what Ella says.

Thank you, Fred, for that nomination. We wish you all the best with it, is it the first book you have written?

Thank you, Nellie, for noting Mosquito, it does sound quite intriguing, doesn't it?

Would like to mention to everybody the two upcoming Book Club Online selections, in January it's the Books Into Movies series: An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser and a look at the movie too, it should be wonderful.

In February the Book Club Online tackles a Nobel Prize winner, V.S. Naipaul, in his "trademark" book, not a new book but one of the best, I'm told, A House for Mr. Biswas, about a man's struggle to have "The American Dream." Except that he's not American and when he gets it, well...see for yourself, it's based on Naipaul's father's own story.

If you have somehow missed this Nobel Prize winner, please join us in February, we'll leave the light on for you.

ginny

I am just new to Seniornet but would like to suggest this book for all the gentlemen who like to read about the age of steamengines. This is a story of Oscar P. Orr who operated a steam engine throughout Central Pennsylvania and South Central New York from 1904 to 1949. It tells of his life and the life of his family and was written by my husband (now deceased) John W. Orr. It was published by Penn State Press and came out in March of 2001. It will interest not only the railroad fans but general readers as well. Enjoy! Reviews have been posted on Amazon.Com if you are interested.

Hello, Melo47 and welcome. Your husband's book looks very interesting and we thank you for its nomination, stick around, if you like, and join in, you have come to the best spot for readers anywhere.

ginny

Greetings all. Just joined seniornet. I would like to propose a discussion of spirituality books, as there have been some fantastically uplifting books come out recently on the subject of spiritual reality, near-death experiences, angels etc. Where do I find this on SeniorNet?

I'd like to suggest discussions on A Course in Miracles, Conversations with God, The Urantia Book, Journey of Souls, Saved By the Light, Embraced by the Light, Life After Life, to name a few.

Can any guide me to where these books might be discussed. Perhaps they are already here but I cannot find them.

And a big thanks to all of you who participate.

Vince

Welcome VINCE.

I do not know of a place on SeniorNet that is discussing spiritual books. I am sure someone else will be along to give you some suggestions. There might be a place where they are discussing some of the topics in the books you mention. I am not sure just where that is.

I hope you have a great holiday. I am pleased you have joined us in SeniorNet.

Marjorie

This is one of the the titles in The Saga of Recluse series, and is a sci-fi readers delight. There are 6 other titles in the series, and once you read one, any one, you'll want to find them all. Bad Dad, Florida

Thank you for those suggestions, Vince and Bad Dad, we appreciate them, let's see if they "take off," so to speak here with our readers and one of our Discussion Leaders, that's our procedure, thank you for bringing them to our attention, that's great!

Bad Dad, I see you are interested in Science Fiction! Please immediately go to Science Fiction Clearninghouse and post there, our Nellie Vrolyk of Canada, has held out the lamp there of Science Fiction for a long time and you will find, now, several people interested in talking about Sci Fi, and maybe some who have read this series.

ginny

Hello. My name is Kate Stormer and I recently completed a book about my "adventures" trying to return home from New York City to Madison, WI during the September 11, 2001 tragedy. My book is called "From the Edges of 9-11" and will be available in printed format very early in January (it is currently available electronically). At this time, my publisher is taking "preorders", which are already accumulating. A portion of the proceeds from my book will be donated to the Wisconsin Canine Search and Recovery Association, which is a nonprofit group of volunteer dog handlers formed in 1998.

I am very eager to share my story with others and I think book clubs like yours would really like the timely discussions this book can offer. Do you think the SeniorNet Book Club would be interested in my book (it's humorous in some places, sad and exciting in others)? Although I'm not officially a senior yet (I'm 48 years old), I would be honored to talk to you and your group, if you are interested. It's a very quick read at only 126 pages and those that have read it said it was hard to put down (one avid reader is 86 years old and said she stayed up until 2:30 a.m. reading it

). Here is the URL where you can read about my book online and preview the first couple of chapters.

http://www.katestormer.com/

Thank you for your consideration and possible sharing of my book with others in your group. You can contact me at kstormer@charter.net. I will eagerly wait for your thoughts.

My Best,

Kate Stormer Madison, WI 53719

Wonderful account of a woman's adventures across the world alone. A truly amazing person. Releases one's imagination like nothing I have read lately.

Thank you, Kate, and covemember, those both sound like very interesting books.

Our prodedure here is to see if we have a Discussion Leader interested in leading a particular book discussion and then if a quorum of interested readers develops, it's a GO.

You have both posted in the right place! In addition, Kate, we have the Author's Corner where authors often bring their new books to our attention, thank you both for these nominations, they certainly sound interesting.

ginny

Oh, this is very frustrating. We are in the process of moving to a new home, 400 miles away, doing several stages ourselves before letting the movers take over.

In particular, I would enjoy books with a spiritual bent - Conversations with God and A Course in Miracles grab my interest. And also Kate's book, From the Edges of 9-11.

But I just can't commit to participating until after we get settled which may not happen until as late as February. So, I'm just letting you know of my interest for now.

Thank you, Diane, we do not have at present a Discussion Leader interested in leading a general discussion of religious / spiritual books, but we can certainly ascertain if interst arises in leading an individual book of the titles you suggest?

I wish you good luck in your moving, always a most traumatic thing, at least it has been for me, and look forward to your resumed participation with us after the move!

ginny

I believe that the requests for the more "Spiritual, all knowing, healing" Literature has come to the fore front due to the 9-11 catastrophy. The appeal toward the jocks and the Hollywood "Stars" has dissipated and what we are left with is a greater sensitivity and sense of reality. We have this need to reach out, to feel and explore the more important and delicate issues of life.

Thank you, philosopher Andy.

Thank you Ginny and Kate for your suggestions. I read the Lance Armstrong book "It's Not About the Bike" and reviewed it for the Cancer Institute library where I do volunteer work. I was impressed and he is an inspiration to patients and their families. I'm interested in reading, (or listening to) Armstrong's new book. As for the Dimaggio book, I read the reviews and I wouldn't want to read a book which tries to destroy one of my childhood heros. I'd rather remember him as the great ball player, than as a failed human being. I'm sorry that I read the books which tell what terrible human beings Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were. I'd rather keep my illusions.

I'd like to call your attention to TWO new book club discussions forming now, one is a book by the newest Nobel Prize Laureate, V.S.Naipaul, called A House for Mr. Biswas, about longing and the desire for the "American Dream," but he's not American. If you saw the 60 Minutes catch up piece on the "Lost Boys" of Atlanta, you will be in the right frame of mind for this book, it's not long, and you can then say you are reading the work of a Nobel Laureate, who knows, you may want to read more of his.

Likewise, another new book just out, the very controversial (I'm sure you have heard of the guy who refused Oprah's designation as "An Oprah Book," The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen, has just gotten a quorum of readers, and will be moving to the Coming Attractions very soon.

Please do click and read and plan to join us, since Roslyn's class I already have tons o new ways to think about these books, do post and join us!

But anyway, the thing that is going to make OUR Franzen sweet is the comparison of it that B&N made with Richard Yates's Revolutionary Road. They apparently think you have read that? Have you? If not, you have missed one of the best books about the suburbs ever written, about dreams and longing and what they do to a marriage. Here's more from the discussion:

Revolutionary Road is, for me, one of those books that you hold in your mind as a "masterpiece" for years? And then you reread it, and have to ask yourself it if has stood the test of time. It was written in 1961, is it still vital, or is it just the darling of the literati?

Yates, of course is famous for other things, as well. There is a new book, just out, just published, a compilation of his short stories, The Collected Stories of Richard Yates, and includes some of his unpublished ones. The cover says, under his name, Author of Revolutionary Road.

Yates has been called "a writer's writer," a phrase which, in the introduction, Richard Russo suggests Yates would consider an insult: the implication that "only other writers are sophisticated enough to appreciate his many gifts... Yates is not a sophisticated writer....He doesn't need to be, he's far too talented to leave much use for either smoke or mirrors."

Yates is extraordinary, he writes many times of the dreams and longing we all have, no matter who we are, he's a talent beyond measure.

In addition, Yates wrote Eleven Kinds of Loneliness, and seven other books.

I would kill to do a Yates retrospective here in our Books, just like I would love to do the Shirley Jackson biography. Maybe once we read Revolutionary Road, there might be enough interest to pursue Eleven Kinds of Loneliness, he was a unique talent.

Now HOW he compares to Franzen, we will have to decide for ourselves. We are not the people saying this, the B&N reviews are, so let's see if we agree.

It's like calling on the name of the Troll under the bridge with famiarity and then when he actually appears, thinking better of it, let's try it!

ginny

I ran across a New Yorker interview of Franzen (author of The Corrections): http://www.newyorker.com/ON-LINE_ONLY/ARCHIVES/?011224on_onlineonly01

Caution - may contain spoilers if you have not yet read the book.

Linda

Thank you for that, Linda, spoilers don't bother me, but I'll note that when we link it in the heading, appreciate that.

& ginny&

May I offer two books for possible discussion? One is "April 1965" and the otheris "America Afire." the first is about the end of the civil war and the events that took place. The blurb on the book claims that this country came as close to coming apart as any time in its history during that period. The second book is about the Presidential election of 1800 between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. the book claims that it was the dirtiest election ever fought in the history of the U.S. (that is saying a lot) this book might be a logical follow on to the Bio of Johns Adams that has just recently been discussed.

Tiger Tom

Both of those sound wonderful, Tiger Tom, thank you for those nominations, many DL's check in here daily and perhaps somebody will want to lead a discussion of one, many thanks!

&ginny&

Tom...oh, thanks for mentioning: April 1865 My husband has become interested in the Civil War and that sounds like something he'd enjoy. I'll look for it at the Library for him.

š jane›

I am currently reading a book by Anne Rice called "THE FEAST OF ALL SAINTS", about the "gens libre de coleur" (the free people of color) of New Orleans. It's another world of which I had only had glimpses before. Rich, colorful, sad....I learn something with every page. I highly recommend it. ...Babi

I would like to suggest the book "The Joy of Not Working" by Ernie J. Zelinski (ISBN: 0898159148) for discussion. This is an excellent book on the non-financial aspects of retirement. Covered in depth are topics like preventing boredom, finding what you like to do, making the break from the world of work / employment, finding new friends, etc.

Recently at another book discussion round table there were two SeniorNetters from Sweden and Norway. That brings to mind Scandinavian writer Marianne Fredrikson. I thoroughly enjoyed two of her books, Hanna's Daughters and Simon's Family, and think that either would be a good discussion book. Also, they are both available in paperback, which makes them more affordable.

Those are intriguing suggestions, Pedln, could you tell us more about either or why you think they might be good? I've not read too many Swedish authors and have always wanted to take that plunge!

Thank you for that!

ginny

Ginny -- to answer your question;

Hanna's Daughters is about three generations of women and the relationships they had. It says a lot about families, much about Swedish/Norwegian history. There would be a lot to talk about, and also, there is a lot of background material available -- witness an iLor.com search. It was a best seller in Sweden and Germany.

Simon's Family also deals with family relationships. Set in Scandinavia during the period of the Holocaust and after.

This book by Caradog Prichard reminds me of the book Angela's Ashes. However I like it better. It is a story about a family in Wales. The young son is the main character. It is poetic; the writing has a beautiful rhythm. It is available in paperback. I think it is very worthy of consideratian.

dont know where this east side mountains lie

Thank you, Pedln, for that explanation, and Moom and Ashokk for those nominations, please visit all our books discussions, we'd love to have you!

Just to let you all know, we sent out a ballot today to everybody on our mailing list for the Book Bytes Magazine?

If you are not on that list and would like to be, cllick on my name and email me and I'll see you get on it.

If you did not receive the ballot for some reason, here it is, and you may either post your two choices here or you may email them to me?

As you know when we began 2002, we said we wanted to develop a new Fiction Reader's Series and vote on what the group wanted to read?

We'd like your vote on the April and June selections and include here a ballot taken from the list of finalists our Books Discussion Leaders have winnowed down, for your use, simply hit REPLY and indicate your choice of two books below that you might like to read with us? Those two, in the order of your choice, will be the April and June Book Club Online selections.

And the Nominees are (sounds like the Oscars. hahaha) in alphabetical order:

1. Any Small Thing Can Save You: a Bestiary by Christina Adam
2. The Bonesetter's Daughter by Amy Tan
3. Claire Marvel by John Burnham Schwartz
4. Empire Falls by Robert Russo
5. The Fall of Light by Niall Williams
6. The Good Husband by Gail Godwin
7. The Last Time They Met by Anita Shreve
8. Perfect Recall: New Stories by Ann Beattie
9. The Sea, the Sea by Iris Murdoch

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1. Any Small Thing Can Save You: a Bestiary by Christina Adam ~ hardback

Raved over by the New York Times, this small short book of short stories about every day life, in the conceit of a Bestiary, is a stunner. The first short story, " A is for Asp," is 7 pages long and about a snake in the kitchen and what it reveals about a marriage.

"Like the richest classical paintings, the entries in this engaging bestiary treat those unexpected moments when we are suddenly awakened from our daily routines, surprised and restored by the beauty of the natural world and our capacity for love within it. Any Small Thing Can Save You casts a wise eye on the kinds of simple intimacies we all long for, and on the truest opportunities for real salvation."---"spellbinding in its vision"

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2. The Bonesetter's Daughter by Amy Tan ~ paperback

Set in contemporary San Francisco and in a Chinese village where Peking Man is unearthed, The Bonesetter's Daughter is an excavation of the human spirit: the past, its deepest wounds, its most profound hopes. This is the story of LuLing Young, who searches for the name of her mother, the daughter of the famous Bonesetter from the Mouth of the Mountain. The story conjures the pain of broken dreams, the power of myths, and the strength of love that enables us to recover in memory what we have lost in grief. Tan has a master's degree in linguistics from San Jose State University and worked as a language specialist to programs serving children with developmental disabilities. "A rich, fascinating novel."

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3. Claire Marvel by John Burnham Schwartz ~ hardback

A love story that begins in the rain, "Moving between Cambridge, Massachusetts, New York City, and the hushed, timeless countryside of France, John Burnham Schwartz explores the many aspects of emotional commitment and the fear of giving oneself to another -- in father-son relationships, in marriage, and in the ecstasy and elation of an elusive but compelling passion. Here is a novel that plumbs with wisdom and compassion the hidden regrets, enduring hopes, and guiding mysteries of a bond stronger than reason. Masterfully written, Claire Marvel is a love story for our time, and a brilliant achievement."

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4. Empire Falls by Robert Russo ~ hardback ($20)

What your friends are reading in their book clubs: After Gary Fisketjon edited and published Richard Russo's powerful first novel, Mohawk, in 1986, he eagerly awaited the day he would have the opportunity to work with Russo again. He got his wish 15 years later, and Fisketjon, vice president and editor-at-large of Knopf, had this to say about Russo's Empire Falls: "More panoramic than Rick's earlier work in its social ambition, yet achingly personal, Empire Falls reveals our worst and best instincts and transfigures both our most appalling nightmares and our simplest hopes, with all the vision, grace, and humanity of epic storytelling."

"In Empire Falls, the inhabitants seem so real that the smallest incidents are engaging, and the horrors that erupt will catch your breath. Try reminding yourself it's only a book while praying their dreams somehow break into life."

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5. The Fall of Light by Niall Williams ~ hardback $20

Beginning in Ireland in the early years of the 19th century, the four Foley brothers flee across the country with their father and the large telescope he has stolen. Soon forced apart by the violence of the Irish wilderness, the potato famine, and the promise of America, the brothers find themselves scattered across the world. Their separate adventures unfold in passionate and vivid scenes with gypsies, horse races, sea voyages, and beautiful women. An epic narrative on the meaning of love and home and family, The Fall of Light is a dazzling novel by one of the most promising novelists writing today.

"Filled with magical realism, this book is an allegory of Ireland and its people. "

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6. The Good Husband by Gail Godwin ~ paperback

"Mates are not always matches, and matches are not always mates," pronounces Magda Danvers, the magnificent central figure in Gail Godwin's wise and affecting new novel. With The Good Husband, one of America's most gifted novelists creates a portrait of two marriages and four unforgettable characters that travels beyond the usual questions of love and domestic comfort to explore the most profound consequences of intimate relationships. It is also, in its deepest sense, a novel about how we influence and transform - and sometimes complete - one another. " "... a winner"

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7. The Last Time They Met by Anita Shreve ~ paperback just out January 2002.

In this mesmerizing novel, Anita Shreve, author of the international bestseller The Pilot's Wife, Shreve examines the resilience of emotion and the extraordinary repercussions a single choice, even a single word, can have over a lifetime.

At a literary festival in Toronto, Linda Fallon encounters the man who was once at the center of her life: Thomas Janes, the famous poet. Since last seeing him, she has married, given birth, and been widowed. Thomas' appearance rocks Linda, raises questions she had long abandoned, and inspires new dreams. "...a mystery, and one so astonishingly well-constructed that when you're finished you'll want to reread it at once."

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8. Perfect Recall: New Stories by Ann Beattie ~ paperback

Beattie is one of the most highly acclaimed and prolific prose writers of the last three decades (her work includes six novels and six previous story collections, three of which have pieces included in O. Henry Award anthologies). Her new collection is truly a literary event. These 11 stories are unsentimental portraits of unique characters in the crystal moments that define or unravel their relationships. The title story highlights an unconventional extended family and the bumpy lives of two sisters; "Hurricane Carleyville" is an almost mythical tale of a grand loser; "The Famous Poet, Amid Bougainvillea" is the humorous and compassionate rendering of two men whose lives are winding down with age and illness; and "Women of the World" focuses on the lives of two women who juggle to retain their equilibrium as their husbands attempt to keep reality at bay. Truth resonates deeply in each of these stories...." A brilliant collection: recommended."

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9. The Sea, the Sea by Iris Murdoch ~ paperback

Iris Murdoch is in the news again, you've heard of her husband's memoir about her struggles with Alzheimers, you know Judy Dench is playing her in a movie. The Sea, The Sea, is one reason why everybody cares. Charles Arrowby, leading light of England's theatrical set, retires from glittering London to an isolated home by the sea. He plans to write a memoir about his great love affair with Clement Makin, his mentor both professionally and personally, and to amuse himself with Lizzie, an actress he has strung along for many years. None of his plans work out, and his memoir evolves into a riveting chronicle of the strange events and unexpected visitors - some real, some spectral - that disrupt his world and shake his oversized ego to its very core."-- "It's one of the best "Booker" winners I've read lately"

Cast YOUR vote and help us select the April and June Books we would like to read!

ginny

GINNY -in your next suggestion roundup for books to consider, I'd like to suggest Fatema Mernissi's SCHEHERAZADE GOES WEST.

Mernissi is a distinguished Islamic scholar, sociologist, feminist and professor at Mohammed V University in Rabat, Morocco. Her latest work, profiled in the Washington Post (3/23/02 - link below), gives an ample view of not only the misunderstanding of the word "harem" in the West, where it had been used out of context by Hollywood, but how Western women (whether they realize it or not) have been kept in "burqa-esque" seclusion, particularly by the entertainment and fashion industries. Mernissi writes of the womanliness of a female body which is "full," as opposed to the Western concept of being beautiful only if a woman is a certain (prescribed) dress size.

Because she is well known and highly respected in the Muslim and Arab academic world, Mernissi's work carries considerable weight. Her comments to a Western reader may be surprising, but with a bit of reflection, should not be overly so. I recommend Mernissi and her latest work very highly. It will be an interesting and eye opening title for Western readers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5712-2002Mar22.html

I HAVE THE WHOLE SET OF WIL&ARIEL DURANTS HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION I'M READING THE RENAISSANCE I JUST FINISHED CROSSING OVER BY JOHN EDWARD PHYCHIC MEDIUM HE HAS A DAILY TV SHOW HERE IN NY I'VE BEEN WATCHING THE SHOW AND I'M STILL A SKEPTIC I BELIEVE THERE IS SOMETHING AFTER THIS LIFE ENDS. ANOTHER DEMENTION?

Hi, Beercrop, and welcome to the Books and Literature folder. I hope you've seen that there is an ongoing discussion of the Durants Story of civilization here in the Books folder.

You might wish to join in the discussion: Click here to join the Story of Civilization discussion

š jane›

I assume everyone here knows that Judy Dench has made a movie, "IRIS", about Iris Murdoch, author of "The Sea, The Sea". Problem is, I haven't seen anything about it's being released here. (Filmed in England.)Of course, a lot of things slip by me unnoticed, so I could have missed that,too.

My library has a number of Murdoch books, but as yet does not have "The Sea..." ...Babi

BaBi: I believe it's an independent film so is not shown at all of the cinemas. My " Great-books discussion leader" also leads discussion of movies in Sarasota, Fla. She has just finished with Iris and In the Bedroom with her group. If the movie is half as good as the Sea, The Sea, I'm taking a trip to Sarasota.

ALF and BABI: I watched part of the Oscar's last night and Best Supporting Actor when to one of the actors in "Iris."

I would like to know if there is or was a translation of a French classic ever suggested or discussed in the Books and Literature folder because ever since I come to Senior Net, I have not seen any. Perhaps too because I don't look into every suggestion. I don't know. There are so many just wonderful translations of French classic, I won't name one right now, but I certainly would like to join such a discussion.

Beercrop - I am presently active in the discussion of "Story of Civilization" by Will and Ariel Durant. You are further advanced than we are because we are discussion 'India' right and now just starting with Alexander the Great. Why don't you join us? It would be interesting to know your views. Just click on the link that Jane de Neve has provided.

Eloïse

Thank you ALL for your wonderful suggestions, Beercrop I hope you have heard from Robby, he was most anxious for you to join him and the others in the Story of Civiliation, and I hope you can!

Eloise you must have ESP! One of our goals here in 2002 is to mount a discussion of a book IN French? Not a translation but the original. If we do I hope you will be right there to join in. I'm looking up likely texts now, am remembering with great fondness one particular small book with the Chanson de Roland in it and a good bit about Alsace-Lorraine, but we could do anything, do you have a suggestion?

I think it would be a FABULOUS innovative HOOT!

ginny

Yes, I emailed a Link to Story of Civilization to Beercrop. The welcome mat is always out.

Robby

Ginny - I forgot who wrote 'la Chanson de Rolland' remind me. it was a classic. I know there are many Senior Net people who know French, Robby, Sharon Ede, Fairwinds, Marguerite, Bubble, ET, many many more and they might come up with some great books to discuss. So I am so happy that you are seriously thinking about this.It would be good for those who can read French but are not comfortable writing it but they could discuss the book in English if they wanted. I struggle in French too, it's such a demanding language, but OH! so beautiful.

Graziella de Lamartine is stamped in my memory. Madame Bovary de Gustave Flaubert, Marcel Proust, Prosper Mérimée. Victor Hugo, and a great love of mine is Henri Troyat who writes about Russia, the country of his birth but educated in France. He wrote non-fiction too, Tolstoy's biography, La lumière des Justes, (historical novel about the Russian revolution).

Eloïse

How about some of the short stories by de Maupassant? Jongleur? Boule de Suif?

Robby

Ginny - Jean-Paul Sartre, a philosopher and existentialist wrote a small book called "Huis Clos" about three people living in Hell and trying to form an alliance. Would you like more suggestions?

Eloïse

Eloise, so sorry to be so late in getting back to you, am totally energized by this new idea and are about to open up a new discussion called something like Books in Other Languages or something (need a catchy title), and I love all your suggestions for book titles, particularly that last one.

When we get this discussion up, hopefully tomorrow, we'll move into the heading all of the suggestions for a reading in French.

What we need in the Books in order to mount any discussion is a Books DL willing to lead it and 2 other people who say they will discuss it, (a quorum). That's what all those Proposed discussions are, waiting for a quorum?

WE need to get out the word to those who can read French and/or those who might enjoy trying out their old French lessons, I think it would be fabulous, myself.

As soon as the new discussion, Books in Other Languages, is up, I'll put a link here, and we'll send something out in our Books Newsletter too, can you alert those you know can read French when the discussion goes up and see if they might be interested?

Thank you for this marvelous idea of reading French books (either in translation or the original). I personally think it's an idea whose time has come, let's go for it, WATCH THIS SPACE for the new link to the new discussion, and thank you very much!

ginny

Books in Other Languages

Please come and make your suggestions/recommendations.

Hi! Any one read "A Cup of Tea"?

Hey, Frogie and welcome, I love that name, we used to call one of our little boys froggie or he called himself froggie, can't remember, it was cute. I do remember his godmother seriously telling me to quit calling him froggie as he would be a grown man called froggie, I still thought it was cute and now he's grown and nobody remembers froggie but his old mother.

But I digress!!

No I haven't even heard of it, what's it about and who wrote it? Do you recommend it?

Welcome!

ginny

This book is so good. I asked our library to get it for me as an inter-library loan when my sisters recommended it. It has bees in it, but is not a bee book. It would be fun to have a discussion about it.

Beth, you've caught my curiosity. What IS Bees about?

Beth will you report back on The Secret Life of Bees? I agree, I'd like to know more about it!!

We read Bee Season too maybe we're becoming apiary fanciers here, hahaha (it was not about BEES either)...maybe we need one ON bees!

Thank you for that recommendation, when you have read it we would like to hear more.

As you may notice I have changed the chart in the heading, The Grapes of Wrath is for July's Book Club Online and the September slot is now open for consideration (up for grabs).

I am very pleased with the tremendous participation we are having in our Fiction Reader's Series, the quality of the discussions and the number of participant in each is at an all time high, we invite you into any or all of them, it's a very exhilerating thing we're doing here and those of you reading this are invited to get one of the books above in the heading and join us in that discussion.

ginny

How about a Daphne Du Maurier novel. There is plenty to sink your teeth into in her work. Pleeze!

Carolyn

I suggest Hungry Hill as the Du Maurier novel. I think she is a very good writer and lots of historic fact in Hungry Hill about the copper mining industry in the early 1800's. This is a book set in Cornwall I think.

Carolyn

Thank you, Carolyn, DuMaurier is an excellent suggestion! You might say an "Oldie But Goodie," and I've not read DuMaurier in years and NEVER read Hungry Hill and the subject matter is quite intriguing! We will be gettting up a slate before too much longer, our current listing for the Book Club Online goes thru September so in July we'll be sending out a ballot, keep all the suggestions coming and our Discusion Leaders will pare the list and present a slate to our readers.

I'm going to order that one, just for myself, in advance, know nothing about copper mining but love Cornwall. While visiting the moors there I bought her book written about the inn we stopped at and have still not reread it. Let's try an oldie but goodie! I'm game! Ballot coming in July, everybody get in suggestions!

ginny

Another DuMaurier book with a lot of meat for discussion would be "THE PARASITES". It describes three members of a family, a step-brother and sister, with a third who is half-sister to both of them. They are charming and talented people, each of them different, yet all three in some way are getting thru' life with as little trouble to themselves as possible. It's a thought-provoking book. ..Babi

I think I saw Rebecca on the shelf at my mom's house - what do you folks think of that DuMaurier selection? I'm liking the idea of reading one of her books.

Hungry Hill is full of good characters for us to dissect. It has love intrigue, industrial relations - politics of the age. Its a wealth of material for good discussion.

Carolyn

I've several books that I am reading that I can heartly recommend - this first one is non-fiction and was given to me by a perfect stranger - While flying home the woman seated beside me struck up a conversation about books and of course seniornet - she had purchased the book she was reading in the Atlanta airport and it was not at all what she imagined. She didn't have room to cart it around knowing she may not even read it and so she gave it to me -- I am in awe - it is a book I find I cannot read in one fell swoop - it was a finalist for the Pulitzer by Susan Griffin and called A Chorus of Stones - The Private Life of War A lot of revelations about the experimentations in atomic energy and the cost to lives - the secrets of our past wars and how all this is carried in the psyche of man.

The next is also non-fiction and I only started it - a true story written by Joan Hoff & Marian Yeates The Cooper's Wife Is Missing the murder of Bridget Cleary in 1895 County Tipperary, Ireland. Her death is just after she was subjected to ancient "Fairy Trials" where they were trying to prove Changlings inhabited her body - lots of Irish folk legend and religion and the trail procedings are layered with politics and gossip - it reads so far as a good yarn.

And than the Novel that I mentioned earlier this winter - I ended up buying the book and I am enchanted - Irish again but the book reads like a poem/prose/novel - it is so beautifully written with references to the stars and the stories of the gods and gypsies and horses and mists and swans - 4 young boys, the oldest is 19 and the youngest is 12, and their father are seperated by a freak accident while crossing a river. They are on the run after a lifetime thwarted dreams - this is a truely magical story that is about the power of a families love by Niall Williams The Fall of Light

Thank you, Babi, Sarah and Barbara, for those super nominations and suggestions!

We are in the process of refining this discussion a bit but rest assured your nominations will be counted.

Sarah, on the Rebecca, I believe I would personally prefer to read something of DuMaurier's that is a little less known, who knows, maybe we might spin off a DuMaurier series, she can certainly write.

I really liked Carolyn's take on the characters with a lot to dissect, sounds like my kinda book!

I'll know more when Hungry Hills arrives, maybe we should do a whole DuMauirer series, both Babi and Carolyn have nominated books of hers I've not read and I read Rebecca so long ago I could not tell you what it was about, so am up for that too.

This is exciting, bring 'em on, Folks!

ginny

I don't know if any of you are familiar with Ferrol Sams. His fictionalized 3-volume autobiography constitutes a wonderful look at rural Georgia during the depression and WWII era. The names and dates are

Run With the Horsemen (1984) - growing up during the Depression

The Whisperer of the River (1986) - college years

When All the World Was Young (1992) - medical school and WW II.

All books are probably available in any library and are also available at amazon.com in paperback and used books.

Just a possibility.

Mary

Thank you, Mary, for those three intriguing suggestions, I have heard of him but could not recall just why, we're going to consider all nominations in many of our areas of offering and we'll be sending out a ballot in July, I hope for some of our areas, anyway, including the Fiction Reader's Series and the Book Club Online (currently running concurrently).

Many thanks!

ginny

This book is a must read for any parent. It's at www.amazon.com. After over 20 years of silent suffering, Charlotte Russell Johnson, penned the details of the most shocking events of her life in her novel, A Journey To Hell and Back. This gripping saga takes the reader to places that are only read about or seen in the movies. Through this compelling novel, Ms. Johnson opens up her soul, risking everything in hopes of reaching beyond the breaks to bring salvation to many of the souls now trapped in purgatory. Parallel to the Footprints In The Sand, Ms. Johnson was never truly alone; during the most difficult times of her journey, God picked her up and carried her. Her unwavering faith in God became the catalyst for the divine change in her life.

A must read for any parent. available at www.amazon.com After over 20 years of silent suffering, Charlotte Russell Johnson, penned the details of the most shocking events of her life in her novel, A Journey To Hell and Back. This gripping saga takes the reader to places that are only read about or seen in the movies. Through this compelling novel, Ms. Johnson opens up her soul, risking everything in hopes of reaching beyond the breaks to bring salvation to many of the souls now trapped in purgatory. Parallel to the Footprints In The Sand, Ms. Johnson was never truly alone; during the most difficult times of her journey, God picked her up and carried her. Her unwavering faith in God became the catalyst for the divine change in her life.

This book by Charlotte Russell Johnson will make for interesting and lively discussion. It' available at www.amazon.com There is not a dull page in the book.

Thanks, Earherb, for your suggestion, sounds very interesting. We will certainly keep it in mind as we plan for our upcoming book discussions.

Has the author written anything else and why do you say it is good for parents to read?

Please note our book schedule in the heading for the following months and join in one of them. We would all love to meet you.

earherb, welcome and thanks. Tell us about the book

I just finished a new book by Sharon Mccrumb, "THE SONGCATCHER". All through the book I would find things that I would love the discuss with my fellow bookworms here. The story has two threads:the current times with a country music singer looking for an old song that had been handed down in her family, and the history of the family starting in the mid-18th century. As a plus on all that, this is actually Sharon McCrumb's family history, and the historical episodes involving them are true. Throw in a couple of people who have the "sight" and talk to ghosts, and you have an interesting read. ...Babi

I would love to read another Sharon McCrumb again. It's been quite awhile since I've read her.

I haven't posted in a while & am out of the reading loop, so this may be an outdated idea: has SN read the nonfiction book "Orchid Fever" by Eric Hansen?

Marvelle

I don't think so, Marvelle, is it good? I have recently become obsessed with orchids, and have quite a few, is it ABOUT orchids?

Ella Gibbons, our Non Fiction Coordinator, is having a new computer sent so she will be off until it comes but she might be interested, they are certainly remarkable and fascinating plants.

I live about equidistant from two major orchid breeders in the US and going to either one is a trip, just takes your breath away to even enter one greenhouse much less 18!!

Babi and Andrea, that sounds like a good one too, it's been quite a while since I read a McCrumb, she's a good writer, thanks for the suggestion!

ginny

Yes, it's a wonderful book. I studied horticulture at university (chose the school just for the greenhouses!) and I enjoy growing plants but not orchids particularly. This book made me interested.

Actually, the book is more about orchid people -- collecting, showing, judging, obsessing, smuggling, murdering. Early in the book a Hell's Angel type mutters about The Orchid Mafia.

I was shocked at the revelations in the book which were a total surprise. The writing is well done, lots of humor and suspense, and I learned a lot about the orchid world, history, politics and people.

Marvelle

Marvelle, that just looks wonderful, I'm sold, and as soon as I get back I'm going to order it, maybe some others might be interested as well, let's see.

Thank you so much for this, I had never heard of it and am somewhat of a beginning orchid NUT. It's hard not to be, really.

ginny

I don't know how to add it to the list but I suggest "The Ugly American."

Robby

Joan asked me to add the fact that if "The Ugly American" were chosen, I would be willing to be DL unless someone else wanted it.

Robby

Can you give tell me what subject "The Ugly American" covers. Is it non fiction?

Carolyn

It is non-fiction, Carolyn. It is the type of book that would cause participants to do a lot of thinking about the way we Americans deal with other nations in the world, especially when we are visiting them.

Robby

I just finished reading a really interesting book. It is the second novel from the writer. How would I make the suggestion for a discussion of that book? Thank you. My name is Keri Johnson and I love to read. Mostly fiction but sometimes I go for an interesting topic in the non-fiction areas. Love romance novels too.

Traude just pointed out to me in an email that she just re-read "The Ugly American" and that she was "transfixed." She added that it is Fiction based on facts so I yield to her more recent reading. I still believe it would make for a lively discussion group. Everybody has an opinion on how Americans act and especially now that everyone else in the world -- both Asians and Europeans -- is commenting on how we act.

Robby

Hi, Keri, and Welcome! All you need to do to suggest a book or books for possible discussions is just post here the name of the book(s) with author ...and you may want to give a little description or why you enjoyed it so much or think it'd make a great group read/what's worthy of discussion, etc.

š jane›

Robby - You are a a very brave man to offer to Lead the group! Go into Global foreign affairs and you will see! I do hope the discussion can be objective if it is decided to do it. Its a bit of a hot potato but like you, I think its a very pertinent to the world today.

Carolyn

Leading a book discussion is a bit different from a political forum.

Robby

Hi MARVELLE! The ORCHID FEVER is non-fiction? Your description sounds ver-r-r-y interesting, especially if it is nonfiction, I must look it up!

KERI! Yes, do suggest a book here, you're in the right place! We will be waiting to hear more about the kinds of books you like!

HEY, ROBBY! You're pefect for the book! You'll keep everyone under control and I think it's an excellent suggestion. I'm going to put it on our list of suggested non-fiction books!

I'm so sorry I haven't been in lately! Computer problems and they are not over yet! But they are getting simpler to solve! BIG SIGH!

Traude, who has been re-reading "The Ugly American" says that it is Fiction based on fact. So which category does it go in?

Robby

Robby - it's fiction! I cannot separate you from nonfiction in my mind.

Hi, Ella! Yes ORCHID FEVER is non-fiction and I'm dying to talk with someone about the (supposed) Orchid Mafia.

KERI, what is the book you read that has you enthused? I love to hear about new books --at least new to me. What other books do you recommend?

Marvelle

Okay, Marvelle, thanks - I'm off to the Library today and are going to get the book or reserve it, I love new ideas for book discussions!

Do any of the ones we have presently as NONFICTION Proposed Books appeal to you?

Can you see them easily as you scroll through the Books Page?

Any suggestions about how we can display them better?

nyone interested in this rather esotericsubject6.please?

Gosh! arnt I a lousy "one fingured" typist?

Come on in and join us in our discussion of A Bestiary: Any Small Thing Can Save You. The stories are very short and the comments extraordinary.

The book I was talking about in my first post was Step-Ball-Change by Jeanne Ray. She'd also written Julie and Romieo. I had ordered a book for my mother over the internet cause she doesn't know how to use a computer and her groups wanted a particular book. It was Madam, the Grass is High by Dennis H. Christen. It arrived yesterday and I have to admit, because of alot of talk about it on other chats, I hurried and started reading it before I tell my mom it had arrived. It was really nice. The story made me laugh and cry and for a moment at the end you think it is not going to end like you want it to, but it does. I'd like to recommend both Step-Ball-Change and Madam, the Grass is High but I'm not sure if Madam's is that easy for people to get right now. I asked my mother why she wanted a book over the net and she said that it was not available anywhere else. So I'm not sure if that book can be used in a dissussion or not. Anyway, both books are fun and I recommend both of them. Thanks for listening. Keri Johnson

Thanks, KERI, for the suggestions, I'm going to click over to Barnes and Noble and read the reviews of both! I'm not familiar with either of those authors, but I do love to hear about books others have enjoyed.

Did you see the PROPOSED BOOKS FOR DISCUSSION that we have listed on this page? READERS WANTED - it says, haha Those are books the Discussion Leaders have read and recommend for discussion.

Do any of those appeal to you? If so, post a message in one of them, if not - hey, just post a message to say HELLO! We will be tickled to know you are noticing our efforts.

Seems like I am talking to myself when I ask for kindred spirits who are intrested in the poems of Rudyard Kipling,or the WW1 soldier poets Rupert Brook and Victor Sassoon.....it makes me feel very lonely, as you can imagine. Well !, never say die, can anyone help.... I vaguely remember a book called, I think, "England,their Eingland" dont know who by,one of the chapters of which was an hilarious description of an English village cricket match.I have serched the Web, but cant find any reference to it.Can anyone help me please?

Abta: I assume you've found the poetry discussion here in Books and Literature? If not, you might want to drop in there to discuss your favorites. I'll put the link below.

Poetry discussion click here

The Library of Congress lists two books with the title England, Their England:

England, their England : commentaries on English language and literature / Denis Donoghue. 1989

England, their England, by A. G. Macdonell, wih a prefatory note by Sir John Squire; illustrated by John Evans. 1942

Jane De Neve thnx for the info, the book ny A G Macdonell was the one for which I was seeking...Im now off to the poetry discussion as you suggested

I'm finally getting around to reading this old classic but am finding it tough going. Anyone else read it recently that might want to enlighten me? Joan Grindley

Joan:

Name of the Rose

My sister read it, and she liked it very much, but like you, I haven't gotten around to reading it. It's a sort of medaeval mystery, isn't it? and wasn't there a movie about it, also?

Lorrie

Hi everyone and happy father's day!

i'd like you to consider discussing my first novel, sandman. it was published last november and is the story of a self-possessed baby boomer who suddenly finds he has a life-changing illness and must decide how he goes from here. reviews are posted at barnesandnoble and amazon if you'd like to see more.

thanks and cheers!

bob drews

Bob Drews:

We have a corner especially for authors that you might be interested in seeing. I would suggest posting your suggestion there, to see what kind of interest you can stimulate. Good luck!

AUTHORS CORNER

Lorrie

Actually Bob it might be interesting to do your book. Often when in a very involved discussion we tend to dissect the book a bit too much and often I feel the author would be astounded at some of the assumptions we make as to what the author meant in a certain passage.

It would be offputting to have an author join in but perhaps when the discussion was over comments could be invited from the author. It is an interesting thought.

Carolyn

I finished "Atonement" by Ian McEwan last night. Couldn't stop thinking about the story, and went back and reread the last chapter.

I recommend this book to all, and think it would be a fascinating discussion on Seniornet. We could analyze the last chapter, and consider the question, "Did Briony ever really make an atonement?"

PS--I recommend NOT reading the last chapter until you come to it, or the whole build-up that the author has structured will be lost. And don't give up reading if you find the beginning is a slow start. I think the author intentionally lulls us with the scene he paints of England before the War. Somewhere between page 80 and page 110, the pace picks up. I read it through, and was sad when it ended....it's a keeper!!

Catbird, I have Atonement on deck...can't wait to open it. Your recommendation only strengthens this anticipation. Let's consider it for an upcoming discussion!

Great suggestion, Catbird! Here is the URL for the reviews of the book at B&N - good reviews:

Atonement

Atonement is on my to-read list.

Betty

I received an email from BUBBALOO in regards to a new book by Kevin Phillips entitled "WEALTH AND DEMOCRACY" - she says it is very good, the reviews are good also. Take a look:

WEALTH AND DEMOCRACY

Shall we discuss it in the winter sometime?

Yes, Ella, I've been reading about Wealth and Democracy, and I think Atonement has real possibilities for future discussion. These are good suggestions!

Lorrie

I would be interested in "Wealth and Democracy" for next winter. I have seen good reviews also, and find the background of the author interesting. And I have some strong opinions about the subject....

Okay, Catbird, your mention here will not go unnoticed. Thanks for reporting in.

Lorrie

Wealth and Democracy looks a great book but for overseas readers it will be expensive. You can more than double the retail in US dollars. Probably limited stock will come here and it could even be more than double. I am sure everyone will really enjoy reading it. The subject is not only confined to America but has occurred in every Captitalistic Nation. We too have our new aristocracy which I call "The kings of Industry"

Carolyn

hi, carolyn:

just saw your message of the 16th. i'd be most happy to have all of you make sandman a book discussion selection and then participate or wait until you all were done. but never fear: i have thick skin. i'd be interested in critical comments about it.

thanks and cheers!

bobd

Dear Bobd. It has been my experience that the thickest skin tends to thin a bit when the artist's creation is being taken apart by others. There is so much of yourself invested in what you create. It must be exciting when others understand what you were trying to do, and enjoy the results. But you may find yourself frustrated if your readers, and critics, get terribly dense and simply don't grasp all the subtleties! It is courageous of you to put yourself and your book on the line. I do hope you will find any criticism truly useful, and any praise most satisfying. ...Babi

Catbird, Betty, Ella, JoanP - tell me about Atonement. I wasn't in LOVE with McEwan's last book, so I hadn't rushed to get Atonement. Would love to hear more about it.

Also, wanted to remind everyone here that the discussion of John Steinbeck's great novel The Grapes of Wrath begins tomorrow, July 1. Click here for more information or to join the discussion:

Jane DeNeve "---Grapes of Wrath ~ by John Steinbeck ~Book Club Online ~ 7/1/02" 6/30/02 10:12am

Hi BaBi:

You are absolutely right about thick skin being easier said than done. I guess the answer is not being immune to criticism but learning from it and not letting it anger or frustrate you.

Cheers and happy Tuesday!

Bobd author of sandman and book editor

Can you believe the chutzpah! But I love to meet readers and share ideas, and what better way than on a site with book lovers? I'm with a small publisher and must do ALL of my own marketing: book clubs (perhaps the most powerful link to the book-loving public), signing events, bookstore readings, book fairs, etc. I've been traveling around the country to "spread the word" and it's been quite an adventure! You can read more about The Bone Weaver at: www.theboneweaver.com

Hello Victoria! We'll take note of your book - but while you are here, why not join in one of current discussions? And good luck in publicizing your book.

I got an e-mail last week (I think it was from Joan) asking for my vote on selections for this fall/winter. I'm not sure where I should post my choices, but I hope it will get there from here!

1st: Fall of Light, N. Williams 2nd: Empire Falls, F. Russo 3rd: Angle of Repose, ??

(Well, I had to think about it, you know.) ....Babi

I suggest the book Wicked by (I think) McGuire. I have just started it and find it compelling. It is the story of Oz from the wicked witches point of view. Deb

DEB - WELCOME TO OUR BOOKS! ARE YOU NEW?

That book sounds very interesting and we'll keep it in mind as a suggestion for the future.

We love everyone to bring their books here and give us their reasons why they liked them!

Hi Ella, no I'm not new, I'm 56. Ha ha. Oy! Yes, this new to this site.

We are hoping to move to a new town and condominium next summer. We have about 7,000 books. I am sorting through books and trying to either read or skim or get rid of any book that I bought at a library book sale to pear down the volume. Unfortunately, I cannot help myself with curiosity whenever I learn of a new book, so I am starting to just keep a journal for some future time listing books that sound tempting. So, I will be interested in seeing what you all recommend here. Deb

Hi, Deb! When you start cataloguing your books, remember that we have a wonderful Book Exchange here on this site that you might be interested in. In the meantime, to give you readers an example, some new books considered for future discussions are:

1. Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner --
2. Atonement by Ian McEwan --
3. Bel Canto by Ann Patchett --
4. Claire Marvel by John Burnham Schwartz --
5. Empire Falls by Robert Russo --
6. The Fall of Light by Niall Williams --
7. The Good Husband by Gail Godwin --
8. Hanna's Daughters by Marianne Fredriksson --
9. Hungry Hill by Daphne Du Maurier --
10. The Last Time They Met by Anita Shreve --
11. Perfect Recall: New Stories by Ann Beattie --
12. Simon's Family by Marianne Fredriksson --
13. To a God Unknown by John Steinbeck --
14. Unless by Carol Shields --

Watch for some of these titles for future discussions.

Lorrie

Lorrie

Hi DEB. Welcome! Lots of good things here on Books & Literature. I use the Book Exchange a lot. I see you have played the Name That Book Contest. I never did any good with that one. I like The Last Word: Rubbish! and First and Last Bookle. Both interesting games. Stop by. Do you read romances? Drop into Romance Books if you do. Mysteries? Try Mystery Corner. I could go on and on. In addition to individual books being discussed there are many good general discussions.

And, Deb, if you like nonfiction, do look at our future discussions that are being offered. In August, we have "GREAT FEUDS IN HISTORY" by Colin Evans - a lighthearted attempt to understand the "whats" and the "whys" of some great historical figures.

In September, we have scheduled a book about the latter years of Eleanor Rooselvelt and in October we are discussion the book "DUTY" by Bob Greene.

You must join us!!! You need a break from moving, so be good to yourself!

A new book is out that furthers the understanding of convent life during the time of Galileo's daughter - here is the article in the Gaurdian.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,757578,00.html

Well, I'm so pleased. Just picked up at the library a copy of The Bonesetter's Daughter. We're not planning to move between now and the August discussion (although I can't claim to be "settled" yet from the last move!)so I plan to join in and looking forward to it.

Ella, thanks for the howdy a while back. It's good to be relocated and I must say the books were, and are, the most difficult part of the move. For me, anyway. My husband would say his power tools. Deb, I think you must have me topped with 7000 books. Wow - that's a lot. I never counted ours but they must be in the neighborhood of 4 to 5,000. I mainly gave away many, many treasures and sold just a few. Yet, at this end with fewer shelves I guess I should have parted with even more. And the need to keep collecting, or acquiring, never goes away. Good luck.

Speaking of loving books (I think loving words goes along with it), I just finished a winner - "Ex Libris" by Anne Fadiman. This book is a short, easy read but oh, so filled with gems to anyone who is a fellow book-lover. She talks of "merging" book collections when she and her husband married which was really funny - and endearing. Fadiman is enormously articulate, well-read, and just plain bright. Some of the book was a bit of a stretch to my more humble mind - but never dull or tedious. She talks of the joys of reading aloud. What I think I remember best was her description of how you can tell a kindred soul by walking through the house - bedside table overflowing with books, books stacked hither and yon in the hall, book shelves all over the place, books on the bathroom counter. Inother words, one of US!

I don't know especially that I am suggesting this book for discussion (although I would love that) but I can't imagine any one of you not enormously enjoying it. Perhaps Amazon.com would have a better review - well, I'm sure it does. Check it out - you can thank me later!

Helloooo. Diane! I'm so glad you will be joining us for the "Bonesetter's Daughter" discussion on the 1st. Looks like a fine group there.

Your mention of the author Ann Fadiman. Could she be related perhaps to Clifton Fadiman, at one time a book reviewer for the New York Times, I believe?

Lorrie

Halloooooo, Diane! And Lorrie - I remember Clifton Fadiman, haven't heard that name in years.

You voted - we "heard." The votes for the Fiction Readers' Series for September, October, November and December were as follows. We will read the following books during those months, in an order to be determined. Keep your eye on this page for more information:

Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner

Atonement by Ian McEwan

Hanna's Daughters by Marianne Fredriksson

Tie: Bel Canto by Ann Patchett with

Tie: Empire Falls by Robert Russo (Choice to be determined)

Lorrie and Ella - you're right on the mark. Anne is Clifton's daughter and apparently the whole family is exceedingly gifted. Clifton, at the time the book was written, was in his 90's, losing his sight, and Anne mentions reading to him regularly. Mentally he's still right up there.

You know, I forget so much about books after I've read them, especially when I follow up with reading another book (usually the case), and now I find myself thinking, darn!, there was that terrific chapter where she and her brother said this or that, then there was the one where her mother did something or other, and I know it was all so highly readable, and I'm thinking this group would love this book so much. So, I think I'll put in a renewed pitch that not only EACH ONE OF YOU read this book but let's consider discussing it together. Maybe we could have a month that would include two shorter books and this could be one.

But, come what may, it's so nice to have this group to share excitements about book finds with.

Thank heaven for libraries. When I moved into my 'smaller space', and stuck bookshelves in everywhere I could, I realized that from here on I would not be buying any more 'one-time reads'. I love mysteries and science fiction, but there are not many I plan to re-read. (Actually, I don't do much re-reading anyway...there's always something new and alluring waiting for me.)

I like the sound of Ex Libris. I'll look for it in my precious local library. ...Babi

I love the cat books by Lilian Jackson Braun, just good clean mysteries.I am a new computer user and do not know how to type well or the computer language so any information to correct or inform will be taken in good spirits, hydro2

Babi - oh, good! You'll let me know when you begin reading it, OK?

Alas, my local library did not have EX LIBRIS. I will check with the library in the town "next door"; it's larger.

Diane, if you liked "Ex Libris", may I assume you already know about one of my all-time favorites, "84 Charing Cross Road", by Helen Hanff. It is a book-lovers delight.

...Babi

Hi, Hydro2!

Welcome to our gruoup, and take a look aound our site. You may find a discussion going on or about to go on that interests you, Don't worry about being new to computers----we were all that once, too, so we know how it is. We have some really friendly computer "techies" who are so helpful with what we might think are "dumb" questions. Please stay with us! You are more than welcome!

Lorrie

Does anyone think they might join a discussion of any of the Books in the upcoming Fiction Readers' Series:

You voted - we "heard." The votes for the Fiction Readers' Series for September, October, November and December were as follows. We will read the following books during those months, in an order to be determined. Keep your eye on this page for more information:

Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner

Atonement by Ian McEwan

Hanna's Daughters by Marianne Fredriksson

Tie: Bel Canto by Ann Patchett with

Tie: Empire Falls by Robert Russo (Choice to be determined)

Babi, now I KNOW you'll love Ex Libris because Helene Hanff is one of my all time favorite authors! In fact, it was here on SN that I first heard about her and went on to read Charing Cross. I think I have now read every one of her books, loving each one and so sad when there were no more to read.

See the kind of thrills you're in for Hydro2? Welcome and don't worry about not knowing much about computers. There are all kinds of classes right here and maybe someday I'll learn more about my computer, too. In the meantime, just the mutual love of books will be more than enough to get you started.

Are you aware that YOU ARE ALL INVITED TO WASHINGTON, D.C. in October for the National Book Festival? Click here for more information:

National Bookfest Discussion

And here are the participating authors that will be there (this is so exciting, our chance to meet them and greet them and maybe invite one to have lunch with us? Who knows?):

List of participants in National Book Festival

Do join us! This will be a great one!

Babi, I too loved 84 Charing Cross Road. What else has she written and is it as enjoyable? I also liked to movie even though Ann Bancroft was too old for the part. I read that her husband gave her the script for her birthday and she had to play it. When I went to London I I looked for the address but there was no such number on Charing Cross Road, but I HAD to look! Deb

When I went to London, I also looked for 84 Charing Cross Road... It looked like there was a pizza place there now. but the 2nd hand book stores further down were a lot of fun to wander in and out.

Deb, you can ask Diane about other Hanff books. She says she has read them all. The only other one of her books that I've read is "The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street", another small and and delightful book. I understand she wrote many children's books as well.

As long as I'm looking for "Ex Libris", I'll look for some more of Helene Hanff's books, too. Ah, so many books unread...so little time....Babi

Fellow H. Hanff lovers - I had to check over at Amazon.com to recall the names of some of the other books. Turns out I had NOT read them all as a few are out of print. Even just reading the titles brought a slow, broad grin to my face. You know, I'm trying so hard not to buy more books, just having been through a major move and having had to weed out so many, but gee whiz, there are several, well, most, HH books that I would love to own. Anyway, here are a few you must try to get your hands on: Q's Legacy (sorry, forget what it was about but know that I loved it); The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street (Hanff actually did get to London, including, of course, 84 Charring Cross, and this is her telling of that adventure); Apple of My Eye (an insiders view of NYC - including a visit to the late Twin Towers as they were nearly completed, and other sites in and about the city that would appeal to not only tourists, for whom it was supposedly written); Underfoot in Show Business (Hanff's attempt to break into show biz - alas, she didn't make it but her telling is, as always, such a good read; Letter from NY/BBC Woman's Hour Broadcast - her letters to the BBC Woman's Hour, telling what it was like to live in NYC. As an ex-New Yorker (but still in love with the city), I absolutely adored this - but I think even anyone who had never been there would be charmed by this book.

If you have time, read the reviews at Amazon - one I particularly loved was by a woman who was laughing out loud on a plane trip while reading one. The passengers around her wanted to know what was so funny and she wound up reading aloud while everyone enjoyed champagne, flying across the country. And so another batch of HH fans was born.

Oh, I'm just thinking - wouldn't it be great fun to have an HH "read-a-thon"? Of course, we'd have to find copies of the book but my previous library had many of them and I'm thinking I may just have to buy a few. Some weren't as expensive as I'd thought.

Well, if we do or don't, I hope some of you will just find and read some of her books for the sheer pleasure. Right, Babi?

More on HH - she also wrote "Queen of England" about Queen Elizabeth I but it's out of print and I don't know anything about it.

Another is called The Library of Helene Hanff, not by her but about her library. Now we could get to see what books she was ordering from Charring Cross plus others that she felt moved to purchase. Forget the author but you could look it up. This one has me curious.

The list I found of books by Helene Hanff..

Underfoot in Showbusiness (1961)
Terrible Thomas (1964)
Movers and Shakers (1969)
84 Charing Cross Road (1970)
The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street (1973)
Apple of my Eye (1977)
Q's Legacy (1986)
Letters from New York

Sarah, you asked us to say if we would be present for September, October, November (and December?) book discussions, based on the voting results. Probably yes to most of them, but it will be easier to say definitely about each when you have announced the order of the books....what book goes with what month. The already scheduled Truman book for November is over 2 inches thick, so I could be pretty busy mid-October trying to finish before November 1st.

Betty

I'm a sucker. I had to go to half.com and order the Duchess of Bloomsbury Street already.

What a lovely idea, Diane. A Helen Hanff read-a-thon. Are you going to the October book fest? I would be perfectly happy to set aside time for a session like that! ...Babi

Oh, GOOD, Deb - you'll let us know what you think, too, OK?

Glad you like the idea, Babi (you do pronounce your name with the accent on the "bi", right?) but sorry, no, won't be able to attend the book fest. It sounds great, though, and will look forward to everyone's comments.

Now, to get a jump start on The Bonesetter's Daughter...

Diane, Babi is for "Bobbie", which I couldn't use because it was taken. Actually, I think "Babi" is much more elegant; I may adopt it for permanent use. :>) ....B

Deb, Diane and Babi (I'm glad to know that's Bobbi, I keep saying to myself BABBBB i, as in BAbo! hahahahaha) I will have to bring some Babo to DC (you are ALL coming, I hope to our annual get together of readers? I hope ??)

It's kinda rare for readers to get together, we hope you will take the plunge this year, you will not regret it and there are going to be literally TONS o authors at the National Book Festival!

Anyway, you are talking about a Helene Hanff Read a Thon, what an innnovative idea!! The way we're set up here we need one Discussion Leader and two intersted participants, (I see three of you) and I think I know a DL who loves Helene Hanff and who would be perfect, when would you want to begin this Read a Thon? We'd want some time to advertise it and I must say September is full here in the Books, how about October?

What IS a Read a Thon and how would it work?

Thank you for your creativity!~

ginny

Hi, Everyone:

I won't be able to attend the national book festival but am wondering if there will be a place for authors to put flyers, business cards, etc. i'd love to send someone along if there will be a display space.

thanks and cheers!

bobd author of sandman and book editor

Ginny, the "Read-a-thon" Diane was talking about was one of reading aloud from Hanff's books. One reads until the voice begins to give out, and then another takes over. All done in the most comfortable setting possible, probably in pajamas, and with refreshments at hand! Unfortunately, it's not something that can be done on the Net. ...Babi

Hi Babi - did you get my email? Ooooo, does that Read-A-Thon sound fun, maybe we can all do one book in Ginny's room in Washington - haha Won't she love it that I suggested her room? She'll have to pick up her clothes! That's why it can't be in mine. hahaha

I'm sorry, Bobd, but we couldn't do that. We cannot represent any authors - if we did one, we would have a bushel of them. We are going to have our own materials (those of Seniornet) on the display table.

Re: the H. Hanff "read-a-thon" I'm really not sure what I meant! It just sounded good. As does BaBi's description. Perhaps what was in the back of my mind was the difficulty of choosing one "best" or most favorite Hanff book. And how grand it would be just to read and discuss several, one after the other. Kind of like the way it is eating peanuts, one is never enough.

What could we realistically do?

Diane

I am also a HH fan. I believe I have all her books. We did discuss some of her things in 1998 and on the book club trip to NY there was much talk of her. I believe some of us tried to find where her apt was there in NY.

I believe there could be a book discussion where we just started her books and when we were done with one we could go right on to another til we were done. They are mostly very short and a fast read. I don't know about the rules because I am not much of a rule person. I am sure someone would let you know if this was possible.

<Robbie>, I am now reading "American Sphinx: The Character of Jefferson", by Joseph Ellis.

This might be a good book for a discussion. Jefferson's mind has always been a subject of much discussion since he seemed to be able to absorb and present conflicting ideas, ideas at odds with each other, and to present them honestly, with a sense of absolute conviction on his part.

Here is a sample of what he wrote. In this case Ellis is discussing the natural rights section of the Declaration of Independence: "The vision he projected in the natural right section of the Declaration of Independence....was the vision of a young man projecting his personal cravings for a world in which all behavior was voluntary, and therefore all coercion unnecessary, where independence and equality never collided, where the sources of all authority were invisible because they had already been internalized. Efforts on the part of scholars to determine whether Jefferson's prescriptive society was fundamentally individualistic or communal can never reach closure because within the Jeffersonian utopia such choices do not need to be made. They reconcile themselves naturally."

Ellis is profoundly interested in what moved Jefferson - he was a contradiction of ideas, -how did he reconcile the conflict in the values he held.

To those who pick out what books should be discussed, I think this book might be a good choice. It certainly is relevant to the serious problems we have today. Louise

That quote about Jefferson is profound. Requires being read two or three times.

Robby

LOUISE, thank you so much for your comments. I, particularly love history - the founding fathers (aren't we lucky indeed to have had them!); however we have discussed the Ellis book and last November and December we had an extensive discussion of '"JOHN ADAMS" by David McCullough and Jefferson, of course, was prominent in the book and in our comments.

You can find both book discussion listed in our Archives and I hope you take the time to peruse them.

Biography: American Sphinx~Joseph J. Ellis~1/98

Here is the URL for the archived Discussion.

Judy, YOU were the one who first turned me on to H Hanff and I will be forever grateful!

Ah Shucks it was nothing.

I'm embarrassed to admit I've neither heard of nor read Hanff. Judy/Diane - tell me about what I'm missing!!

I'm a Helene Hanff fan too... Hard to find her books in our library, so I've had to buy most of them to read... I think I liked 84 Charing Cross Road the best.

Yes, I did, too, Pat. I read the one about NYC - The Big Apple - was the title?

I found no Hanff books in my library either. I suspect that now that they are out of print, the libraries are unable to replace the worn-out volumes. Just speculation, but it makes sense. I can't imagine a librarian who wouldn't want the Hanff books if he/she could get hold of them. ...Babi

Sarah I think if you read one HH book you will be a fan. Some of the books are out of print but I didn't have any trouble getting them on Amazon. Used book stores are also a great place. HH lived in NY down town in a apartment. She coresponded many years with a used book seller in England. The address of the book store was 84 Charing Cross Road. This is a history of their letters and of course they became friends. She had very little money any died in about 1998. It was just about the time on SN when we were really into HH. Her book Letter from New York is one of my favorites. It is a series of funny touching tales of life in NY from the vantage point of HH small high-rise apartment on the East side. In the summer of 1978 her friend who was a producer on the popular BBC radio magazine the Womans Hour. He asked her to to do 5 minute talk about her life in New York once a month. They asked her to do it for 6 months and she ended up doing it for 6 years. Boy just get me started on HH and I never shut up.

Thanks Judy. Wasn't the Charing Cross book turned into a movie? Sure sounds familiar!

Yes it was made into a movie and I see it listed sometimes on the movie channels.

84 Charing Cross Road is an all time favorite of mine, too. (The movie starred Anne Bancroft.) The entire book, very short, presents the letters written between Hanff and the very English, London bookshop manager. The very first letters from him, in reply to questions about books, were very stiff, very formal. Hanff is a free spirit from the first and it is just magical to see this very British guy soften over the years, especially after Hanff sends the whole bookshop hard to get food in postwar England. In fact, each of the handfull of employees who work in the shop begin to look forward to Hanff's letters and, as time passes, feel very close to her, as she does to them. Each time Hanff plans to make her trip to London to meet them all, something gets in her way. She truly feels connected to all of them, but especially to him. The readers of the letters (book) detect that there may even be a longing in the letters. Life goes on...her career as a writer goes on. The letter from the bookshop telling of his abrupt death has to be the saddest moment I think I've ever felt while reading a book. I cried and cried.

Betty

As I have already noted in my post in the History Forum, much of the history of our nation involves the president. This book is a biogrphy on every one of the 41 presidents from Washington through Clinton. The authors have used a very unique means of grouping the presidents into 5 basic categories, and then further into two groups within each category. Their groups are based on similar qualities, ideals, abilities, and characteristics of the individual men covering a period of over 200 years.

This is the book I would next like to see discussed in the History book Forum. Because of the rather neat breakdowns I would believe the book could be discussed by either taking one of the five major categories at a time for 5 weeks, or to go at it an easier way might be to discuss each of the 10 smaller categories over a period of 10 weeks.

Williewoody! How great to see you again, you all are IGNITING that History Forum and thank you for placing that here , as well, so others may see it, I hope they will join you all there and hopefully you can get up several interesting discussions, any discussion you participate in is always good!

Betty, so good to see you again, too, where HAVE you been?

Cry over Helene Hanff? Get that hankie back out, let me tell you, when we read her first one, 84 Charing Cross Road, we went to NYC for our first Bookfest and never realized that she was, in fact, still alive, IN NYC, alone, and unvisited and in full faculty of her amazing mind, in a nursing home. She passed away soon after that.

Think how we might have possibly brightened one of her days. If we only had known. But we didn't, never even dreamed of looking her up or where she lived. Hopefully we won't miss another such chance to give a beloved author our appreciation, because we all really loved her from her writings. Maybe we SHOULD start another marathon somehow of her books. I know several going to DC love her, too. I just don't know how it could be accomplsihed, but I'm up for anything.

ginny

Fascinating idea, Willie Woodie!

Lorrie

This was emailed to me a short time ago. From Amambler.

"I have discovered the most wonderful writer named Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni. How about a discussion of her book Sister of My Heart and/or the sequel Vine of Desire? I also enjoyed her Mistress of Spices. Unlike the other two, it is a fantasy. All three explore human relationships, while introducing the reader to the culture and mores of sub-continent India as juxtaposed to life in southern California.

Pat"

Lorrie

I seem to be on an Indian literature kick right now. This country has a bank of very fine writers. I have just finished Divakaruni's book of short stories, _Arranged Marriage_. Have read _Vine of Desire_. Liked it.

Kathy

I'm pretty sure I've seen Terry Pratchett mentioned here before, and I'm bringing him up again. I've read one of his books in the past, set in the "Discworld", and am reading another now.

His books are, on the surface, comedy and sci-fi. More than that, tho', they are satire and irony. He has been compared favorably with Kurt Vonnegut and other noted satirists. I find myself reading along, doing a double-take on something, and bursting out laughing.

His books (any of them) would be a natural for discussion. With several people reading and commenting, maybe we could identify and discuss all his double meanings, both the obvious and the sly. ..Babi

Hello Babi! We have a number of readers here that love sci-fi and comedy - now that's a combination and then you added satire and irony. I'll spread the word around with those people and maybe we can get a group to discuss some of Pratchett's work.

Thanks for posting!

Oh that is so sad about Helen Hanff ending her life alone and in a nursing home I felt like crying.

I have never read any of her books other than 84 Charing Cross Road and enjoyed the film several times. It was a lovely story. When I get off here I am going on line to our library to see if they have any of the other books you have mentioned.

How easily even the most talented can be forgotten!

Carolyn

Kiwi lady, I hope your library has some Hanff books. They seem to be out of print, as my library no longer has any. I plan to see if I can find any at the used book store I plan to visit on Capitol Hill. (As if I needed an excuse!) ...Babi

I have just been on line to my library system. They have all the Helene Hanff books. I have reserved 4. I will be able to get them probably next Tuesday as its Friday here. They are all on the shelf. Can't wait to read the NY letters. Hope you have some luck in your search. You have great second hand book stores over there! Your books are good prices too but not economical for me at the current exchange rate for our dollar and the postage. I still love poring through Amazon.Com. Our library is brilliant however and a lot of money is spent on new books. People still read a lot out here in the Wild West of Auckland!

Carolyn

I am excited to tell you that I just bought three Hanff books from Amazon.com and one of them, Letter from New York, was at a used price - $8 something, I believe. This was the first time I had bought a used book through Amazon and I couldn't be happier. The book arrived in barely used condition and all the ordering, payment, etc. was handled through Amazon. Plus I got the other two at what I thought were pretty reasonable prices - paperback but that doesn't bother me in the least. Only one or two were shown as out of print or at prices more than I wanted to pay.

I've just begun re-reading my very own copy of Letter from New York (hooray - I don't have to return it - ever, ever!) and it seems so timely. Once again I am reading about New York through Hanff's eyes and moved to out-loud chuckles, moistened with a few tears.

I agree with you, Kiwi Lady, if only we could have known about her sad and lonely and impoverished final years I just know we could have done things to brighten her days. What a missed opportunity.

Its great you gals are ordering HH's books you will never be sorry. I have them all and what fun just to look through then and read then from time to time. Its a real treat.

And just a note that our own SeniorNet B&N bookstore (see heading here for the clickable) also has a used book store and I've gotten some super ones in just terrific condition too, for a song, very good service!

ginny

We have just received a suggestion for a discussion of a book called " the Bone Weaver" by Victoria Zacheim, the discussion to be held with the author's participation? This book is getting very good reviews. Is anyone interested? Fiction.

The Bone Weaver

Lorrie

I'm interested, Lorrie ...assuming the discussion won't be held while I'm out of town (Oct. Bookfest). But I would assume it will take longer than that to get the discussion scheduled.

How on earth do you weave bone?! ...Babi

Good question, Babi! No, if it were selected, this new book discussion would be at a much later date than October. let's see what kind of response we get!

Lorrie

Piddler on the Hoof by S.I. Fishgal The derisive living truth, escapades and sexcapades, eccentricity and idioms emotionally awake a preschooler in the Red Army's Rearguard during the WWII and trigger readers' thrills, laughter and bittersweet tears. S.I. Fishgal could refer to hundreds of his publications in the USA, England, Canada, Russia and Ukraine, scandalous court files and the like WHO'S WHOs. As a gentleman, he does not. Readers sniff out anyhow -- a bit touched soul bares itself (souls have no sex) and spills the guts in this potent, rich, vivid, fascinating, stimulating and teasing novel. http://piddler-on-the-hoof.8m.com

A PRE-SCHOOLER?!! IN THE RED ARMY REARGUARD?!! SEXCAPADES?!! TELL ME YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS!!!! ...babi

Does this sound like a book that SN would talk about? I think not.

No, Babi, and GusN, I quite agree. This is definitely sounding sort of off the wall for a book discussion. But I don't want to make any judgment until I see at least a synopsis or a review.

Lorrie

I have read the synopsis of the above book and it seems its published by some sort of alternative publisher. I had trouble understanding the dialogue. Not for me!

Carolyn

I was stunned when the New York Times Best Sellers list was shown and commented upon on C-span-2 Book TV during a break between authors......and 8 of the 10 titles were related to September 11. I recognized a few titles, one about the heroes of the Penn. crash, whose author I've heard speak on C-Span. A really wonderful book telling the personal life story of everyone on the plane. It was an unusual group of professional people, no children, many with police or crisis or CPR training.

Other titles (that I recognized) have received good reviews and have been on the list for several months. Isn't it interesting that none of us have thought to suggest reading and discussing a book about 9/11. Some of the best journalists from our best newspapers and literate magazines have written about that day. (About the best sellers lists...books that sell well may or may not have good reviews....there's no correlation between good sales and good reviews. I wonder, though, about 9/11, if it's different.)

Betty

Many people suffered from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) after the Sept. 11 incident. Then a year later some people suffered from PTSD following the "celebration" on 9/11/02. Those who had been suffering from PTSD even for other reasons in their lives often found that the reminder a year later triggered their disorder.
We might want to consider seriously as to whether books on the subject of 9/11 ought to be discussed in Senior Net.

Robby

I appreciate your note of caution, Robby, but I was thinking that the subject of 9/11 is still very much with us in many ways...we're in a war against terrorism, we may be in a war against a country soon or eventually, every day's 6 o'clock news carries updates on airport security progress, etc....so, it is probable that thoughtful books on this multi-faceted subject will continue to be written for some time. I was thinking that we could keep our eyes open for a book that would appeal to several of us and be appropriate for discussion.

Besides, we already know that this is a pretty safe place to talk about things AND our discussions are on specific books by those who voluntarily sign up.

I'm still curious. Are people reading some of these best sellers about 9/11 on their own....or not reading them.

Betty

I'm sorry, Betty, but in this case I must agree with Robby. Are we really ready to talk about that horrible event? It may be that some people would find it a sort of catharsis, but I'm not one of them. Personally, it pains me even now to read about that day. I know I would not be able to disuss any book on the subject coherently--at least now.

Lorrie

Thanks, Lorrie.

I assume that, as readers, we'll individually be reading about things that are affecting our country, our daily lives, our politics, including or NOT including, specifically, 9/11. Maybe we'll never happen upon a book that lends itself to a group discussion. Or, maybe we will.

Since 9/11 was a traumatic event, "normal" reactions could include sleeplessness, headaches, worry, irritibility, bad dreams, difficulty concentrating and other normal reactions. These reactions could have begun close to 9/11, or months later, or on the anniversary of 9/11, or next year when other stressful things happen to us. Many individual factors determine how strong these normal reactions are and when they might begin.

To read about these and other reactions and when or if one needs to seek outside assistance, here is a link to the American Psychological Associations web page created to answer questions about experiencing a traumatic event, written specifically with 9/11 in mind.

http://helping.apa.org/daily/traumaticstress.html

Betty

This book is humorous, sad, and philosophical. We get a picture of what it is like to grow up Chinese/American in San Francisco. It is a favorite of members of our community book group. Women and men alike name this book as one they have read several times over.

Hi, loislee!

Yes, Amy Tan's book "The Joy Luck Club" was very good, and a best-seller, too!

Coincidentally, last month we finished discussing another of Tan's books, "The Bonesetter's Daughter," which was a huge success. You can see part of this in our Archives section. Just scroll down on this page until you get to the Archives heading and click on. You will find "Bonesitter's Daughter" listed there.

But do come to any of our other book discussions, there's something here to please everyone! Take your pick. And Welcome! to this group.

Lorrie

MOBY DICK by Herman Mellville

LOISLEE: Here is a link to our archived discussion of Bonesetter's Daughter. I think if you go to the Books Main Menu you will find lots of things of interest. As LORRIE said, if you keep scrolling you will find our Archives. Enjoy!

Hey, frugal! Good suggestion. Moby Dick was always one of my favorites. Anyone else?

Lorrie

I would love to discuss Moby Dick.

Marvelle

Have we read "A Lesson Before Dying"? If not, I would be glad to TRY a discussion on it!

Sarah, are we going to read anymore of the Steinbeck books? I thought that we were supposed to have a discussion on 2 or 3 of them. I have the Pearl and Of Mice and Men.

MOBY DICK sounds great to me!

ALF - Sarah's out of town for a few days, but when she comes back ask again or email her because I have no idea.

ANN - good idea!

Moby Dick! I even liked Captain Ahab in that novel, but the picture of Gregory Peck lashed to that great white whale will last in my memory forever. Good suggestion.

Lorrie

I would love for us to feature a New Zealand Author in one of our discussions. I have a book at the moment by Shonagh Koea - one of our prolific women writers. The Title is "The Lonely Margins of the Sea" Here is a short synopsis.

Stephanie was always the outsider-never allowed to play with the china dolls on the staircase landing, always on the edge of family events, shut out of the important events. Now, after many years she returns to the family house on the lonely margins of the sea, to care for her cousin Louise. But now it is her immediate past that haunts her - the time she has spent locked away for a crime she dare not recall. With consummate skill, insight and pungency Shonagh Koea weaves her magic once again in this memorable novel.

Now this novel is not a pot boiler. The writing has literary strength. Shona lives and works in Auckland my home town!

Carolyn

Carolyn - a great suggestion! I read one that Barbara S. from Australia suggested - a nonfiction one - and hope we can schedule it in the near future and, of course, we will attempt to find a Discussion Leader for this book from New Zealand that you recommended. Thank you very much!

Ella looked up availability of the book I mentioned at Amazon which is the only stockist of this author and the title I suggested has a limited availability. However there are other titles by the same author so maybe we could look up one of those- they are more available. Leave it up to you guys.

Carolyn

Thanks for your interest, Carolyn, and I have brought this author to the attention of some of our fiction discussion leaders!

I guess I need more information, Carolyn? Is this a novel? What is it about? Who is the author? Why would you recommend him/her? Our fiction schedule is booked thorugh the end of this year; is this book/author so good as to consider scheduling a discussion next year?

I would like to suggest the above for reading/discussion. It is based on the TRUE story of a woman who voluntarily accompanied her six stepdaughters to Auschwitz during the Holocaust. FAR was a finalist for the 2001 ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Award, and nominated for the 2001 Frankfurt E-Book Award. This engrossing tale is more uplifting than depressing, despite the subject matter. As the author, I am looking forward to participating in online chats/roundtable discussions with readers.

author40:

it sounds like a very engrossing book, and I would like to refer you to our Authors Corner discussion on this same page. I am sure you will find someone interested there, and your suggestion here will be noted for future scheduling.

Lorrie

AUTHORS CORNER

"FAR ABOVE RUBIES" does sound like something I'd like to read. I'll check my library for it. ...Babi

Welcome, Cindy! Cynthia (Author 40) is one of the contacts we made at the National Book Festival, I have ordered her book, and it came yesterday, am eager to read it.

Babi, let us know what you think about it, this is a possible Author Participation (thanks to Cindy's graciousness) event?

ginny

Ginny, I spoke at length with this young author. I'd be interested to hear what you think about the book.

Ginny, unfortunately my library does not have "Far Above Rubies". If it has been recently published, it may still show up later. I'll try to check with the library in the town 'next door' to see if they have it. Meanwhile, since you have a copy of the book, we can get your take on it. ..Babi

Well November is just around the corner and Hanna's Daughters voted on as November's pick last summer is up and ready waiting for a quarum - come on and join us - Haven't yet read it but it looks like a winner just from reading the first page - hope to see you with us...!

DAMNED GOOD NOVEL: Piddler on the Hoof by S.I. Fishgal The derisive living truth, escapades, eccentricity, idioms, life and death emotionally awake a preschooler in the Red Army's Rearguard during the World War II and trigger readers' thrills, laughter and bittersweet tears. S.I. Fishgal spills the guts in this potent, rich, vivid, fascinating, stimulating, gripping and teasing novel. http://piddler-on-the-hoof.8m.com/ http://s.i.fishgal.freeservers.com/ http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/fishgal/ http://www.authorsden.com/sifishgal/

Ira and pass:

I do believe this particular suggestion has been posted here before, and if I remember correctly, it was passed on to our Author's Corner.

Lorrie

BaBi, and anyone else who might be looking for FAR ABOVE RUBIES by Cynthia Polansky in their local library, not all library systems have purchased it. It is available thru the publisher (www.booklocker.com/bookpages/cynthiapolansky.html)for $14.95 and is delivered right to your door. I'm hoping that, through discussions on SeniorNet, more libraries will buy the book!

Hello Everyone! I just have finished reading a very unusual and a very interesting Book! The name of the book is " Re-configuration: Heroes from Outer Space" by Olga Altstatt( http://www.1stBooks.com/bookview/12917) The Subject Matter is Intelligence of the Young People from the Earth and how to enhance it in order to create a happy Humanity: without cruelty of wars or disrespect to each other. The book is called Paranomal Fantasy but it contains a lot of "real things" that we face here on our little planet. The Heroes actions are encouraged by the Superior Being that is called the Creator by us.

Here's a little sample from the above-mentioned book, RECONFIGURATION:

From the book: Reconfiguration : Heroes from Outer Space --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our brain is the crown of creation. It was designed according to the purpose the Creator meant it to be – to learn nature and reach for the realms of the Cosmos and beyond. And that’s the reason why we have 75% of the cerebrum in our brain. The Creator’s wish was to see the best in humanity, not the worst that there is now: considering our neglect of the cerebral parts of the brain and such things as drug problems, crimes of many kinds, arrogance, egotism and cynicism. It seems that the New Millennium started with a lot of concern of some people about drug-addiction and that lead to the universal thoughts of the quest for meaning of our lives in general. But we still don’t use our Neocortex on a large scale. In many cases, it’s wasted to the maximum, not to mention powerful weapons of self-destruction like alcohol, smoking and drugs.

Maryal

BELINDRANO:

Sounds like a very intriging book, and I would suggest you post the information in our Author's Corner.

AUTHORS CORNER

MARYAL:

Thank you for the information on the suggested book.

Lorrie

I can't put Bel Canto down - and fortunately, I won't have to! I'll be leading a discussion of this excellent page-turner starting November 20. Rush out and get it - it's really gooood! You'll be hooked on the first page - I mean it.

Ann Patchett won the PEN/Faulkner and the Orange Prize for this book, so you needn't just take my word for it!

Jane DeNeve "---Bel Canto ~ Ann Patchett ~ Prized Fiction ~ 11/20/02" 11/8/02 11:37am

Are there any fans of Catherine Cookson novels on here ? I love her writings; each book is a raw-life story set in England, back a bit in time. This wonderful lady died 3 or 4 years ago, but her great books live on. They all are so good, it is very difficult for me to have a favorite one ---- I love them all so much !

Who wants to talk about the Travis McGee series of mystery books written by John D. MacDonald ? He wrote other books also, but strangely I never liked any of those ---- but I really enjoy reading Travis McGee stories. Each one has a color in it's title ; " The Empty Copper Sea " --- " The Turquoise Lament " --- " Nightmare In Pink " --- all 16 books, and I have them in paperback. From time to time I read one, and still enjoy them all.

Hi, Jenhigh and welcome to our Books discusisons! Those are great nominations and I've got a super spot for you to talk about mysteries, our Mystery Corner where you will, I bet, find people who love Travis McGee, while we're waiting to see if we get up a discussion of any of the books you mention, try the Mystery Corner, you'll find two Mystery lovers from England in there now talking, that group really know their mysteries, I hope you enjoy it!

Also you may want to check out our Fiction discussion, let me tell you how to see all of our offerings?

Look down below the last message somebody has posted, under the green buttons? Look for the underlined words Books & Literature? Click on that, and you'll see a whole world open, we hope you'll try out several of our categories, and hope to welcome you in all of them on a regular basis.

So glad to have you and thank you for those suggestions,

ginny

I have finally gotten to this folder after months of thinking "I have to take the time to look in there". I guess the final push came from a little book (126 pages)that was sent to me and I think everyone should read. I loved it! Its title is "Conversations With An Angel: Life Beyond Death" by Warren Keith and published by 1st Books. I know it is available online at 1stbooks.com but our book store doesn't have it yet.

I will enjoy trying some of the titles suggested here, especially the Travis McGee series.

This is off-topic, so I apologize. But I'm wondering if anyone here has ever had experience with a book and author event? Our local Friends of the Library group is just getting started on trying to put something together. We have high hopes for a 'name' author, realizing that it could take a couple of years to pull it off. Any experiences, anyone? Thanks!

LTSally:

Boy, have you come to the right place! Several of our Discussion Leaders have managed to successfully invite established auhors into their discussions, and the results have been gratifying. We also have been fortunate to have had a personal contact with other authors via our Bookfests and Gatherings.

I will let someone else respond to your question---someone who has hand first-hand contact with authors and can tell you more than I.

Lorrie

I assume you would like to know how to contact, and what questions to ask?

My mystery novel -- Dark Angel -- just received an excellent review in the Sept. issue of Midwest Book Review (Shelley's Bookshelf) It has been particularly popular with the 40+ age group and women. I've sold about 600 copies in the past year, at least half of those by word of mouth, as the MBR piece is my first national review. Would you like a review copy? Ron Baird rebaird@indra.com

Congratulations, Ron, on the good reviews of your new book. Have you tried our "Authors Corner" here on this page? You may find it interesting.

Authors Corner

Lorrie

I just finished reading "The Red Tent" and I found it most interesting and well-written. Could we discuss it sometime during the next year? Lefty Don

LEFTY DON: I'm glad you liked The Red Tent. It was discussed here in June of 2000 and the discussion can be read in our Archives HERE. Have you checked out any of our other book discussions?

THE BOOK: ------------------------------------------------------------ The Julia Roberts Story: The Life, Loves and Career of America's Finest Actress ------------------------------------------------------------

I found this so enjoyable that I decided to recommend it to you. It's an unforgettable story of a young woman facing struggles common to our everyday lives, her sudden rise to fame, her romantic struggles, and the price that is paid for success. Her name is Julia Roberts, and she’s one of the finest actors of our time. Thank you for your time : )

-Julie Anderson

SUGGESTED BOOK: THE JULIA ROBERTS STORY

I found this so enjoyable that I decided to recommend it to you. It's an unforgettable story of a young woman facing struggles common to our everyday lives, her sudden rise to fame, her romantic struggles, and the price that is paid for success. Her name is Julia Roberts, and she’s one of the finest actors of our time. Thank you for your time : ) -Julie ------------------------------------------------------------ The Julia Roberts Story: The Life, Loves and Career of America's Finest Actress To view this book, go to: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963614649/ref=rm_item ------------------------------------------------------------

JULIE: Thanks for suggesting the Julia Roberts biography. I like her a lot. Welcome to SeniorNet Books & Literature. You might want to mention this book in the Biography general discussion as well as here in this discussion. I hope you have checked out our other discussions in Books. Click here to see everything there is for you to choose from.

DAMN GOOD NOVEL: Piddler on the Hoof by S.I. Fishgal ISBN 1-59129-435-5, PublishAmerica Inc. The derisive living truth, escapades, eccentricity, idioms, life and death emotionally awake a preschooler in the Red Army's Rearguard during the World War II and trigger readers' thrills, laughter and bittersweet tears. S.I. Fishgal spills the guts in this potent, rich, vivid, fascinating, stimulating, gripping and teasing novel. http://piddler-on-the-hoof.8m.com/ http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/fishgal/ http://www.authorsden.com/sifishgal/ http://www.publishamerica.com/

They're ba-a-ack! (Anybody know a good exorcist.) ..Babi

ira and pass:

I believe you posted here before, and we have duly noted your suggestion for a book for discussion. I mentioned before that you could also check out our Authors' corner, did you do so?

Authors Corner

Lorrie

The above book is by Buckminster Fuller.

I recently attended a one-man show about Buckminster Fuller in San Francisco. The show was so popular that it was brought back for an encore run.

Thanks for the suggestion, Fibonacci! B. Fuller created quite a stir some years ago with his geodesic dome and every once inawhile I see something that has imitated him. I'll look the book up in my Library when I go.

I was excited by this novel by Cuban-American Oscar Hijuelos - it evoked the whole of the last century and the sights, sounds, smells and music of Cuba, through the experiences of a very unusual hero.

Thank you, Pompadour. Your suggestion is noted. Wow! There are so many new books out, and I presume they are all very good, it's really hard to choose one for discussion, isn't it? Someone previously suggested doing "Moby Dick". Would anyone here be interested in this one? How long since you have read Herman Melville?

Or who would like to talk about an oldie but goodie, "Hungry Hill" by Daphne du Maurier?

A reminder, also, to join us on Jan.2 for discussion of that wonderful book, "The Lovely Bones" Lovely Bones

Lorrie

I don't remember "Hungry Hill", Lorrie, tho' I do like DuMaurier. If I read it, it's too long ago. My memories of Moby Dick bring back a sense of depression. It left me with a definite 'down' feeling, and personally I don't want to read it again. That's just my take on it. "Lovely Bones" I know I haven't read. I'll look into it. ...Babi

Babi:

That's what I wanted----a frank opinion. How about "The Nanny Diaries", which is supposed to be quite hilarious? Or "The Emperor of Ocean Park?"

Lorrie

I'd still be interested in Moby-Dick -- definitely interested. Who nominated it? It was suggested so many weeks ago that I've forgotten. I have a Penguin copy of the book with an introduction by Andrew Delbanco. "Moby-Dick" is about many things but it was written in 1850 at a time when Melville was concerned with the possible splintering of the States. Delbanco says that Melville put all types onboard the Pequod and

"Moby-Dick is a book of universal reach about the neediness of men when they are denied the props of rank and custom; abook about what can happen to men in conditions of radical exposure. It reports their jauntiness in the murderous business of killing whales, and it is hardly blind to their profligacy and cruelty -- but it also honors their courage. It is a time-bound book of distinctively American accent, mainly in the sense that Melville realized, with his great contemporaries Emerson and Whitman and Hawthorne and Thoreau, that the very idea of America entailed an obliteration of the past that placed unprecedented demands on the resources of the self."

A great and beautiful book IMO. And if anyone finds Moby-Dick depressing, they'd jump off the pier when reading "Lovely Bones," another beautifully written book but dark dark dark. "Lovely Bones" is a good read and I recommend it but you have to be prepared for its dark side. Much darker than our Moby.

Marvelle

Okay, Marvelle, you have convinced me. It has been so many years since I read Moby Dick that I could name only one or two of the main characters: Captain Ahab, of course, and Pequod. i'm afraid my recollection of the book is dimmed by the memory of the movie with Gregory Peck, which I thought was remarkable.

Okay, let's put it up in the Proposed section on this page and see if we can get a quorum.

Lorrie

I suggested Moby Dick by Herman Mellville a few months ago. I would be interested in this book for a future discussion in 2003.

Aha! so it was you who suggested it, Frugal! Thank you for idntifying yourself. Okay, I'll let you know right here when it goes up for posters to express an interest. In case you are not familiar with the method we use, a proposed book discussion is put up in the Main Listing on the Books and Literature page, with a tentative date, and then we wait for people to post their intention to join the discussion. A quorum of three people is needed, (besides the DL) and when that is reached, it will be listed as Coming. With Moby Dick, it looks like the first opening would be in March. Does that fit win with your plans?

Lorrie

A Proposed Discussion for Moby Dick is now HERE.

Thanks for the warning, Marvelle. I figure I can find enough dark reading in the news, without delving for it in my leisure time. ...Babi

I think dark stories can be good for the soul if they're cathartic. I know that I can feel released by the experience of reading a really fine book. So please, Babi, don't be put off from investigating "Lovely Bones". It may be just the story for you. I meant that "Moby" is a big sprawling story like the United States is big and sprawling and to me the book is not as dark as "Lovely Bones."

Marvelle

I plan to be available for the March discussion of this book.

FRUGAL!!!

I am delighted that you will be joining us for a discussion of that marvelous epic by herman Melville---"Moby Dick! I will put your name in the potential posters list, and who knows, this might just make a quorum!.

Lorrie

Wendell Berry, poet, essayist, author of fiction, farmer and lover of the land. Went I finished Barbara Kingsolver’s Small Wonder I re-read the preface and found her recommendations for further reading “… and anything by Wendell Berry”. What an endorsement!! We first read many of his essays. His message: Use the earth kindly, we only have one. He advocates for renewable, sustainable living. He’s a man who lives what he preaches, on his farm in Kentucky where he raises what he and his animals can eat. He doesn’t expect that each of us will become farmers, but rather support the farmers that live near us. In his fiction, he tells rousing good stories that illustrate his philosophy.

From his fiction, I have read Jayber Crow and The Memory of Old Jack. They are works of art. Others he has published are The Discovery of Kentucky, Fidelity, Nathan Coulter, A Place on Earth, Remembering, Watch with Me, The Wild Birds and A World Lost. I would love to read any of these with you.

Of his essays, the most readily available collection would probably be The Art of the Common Place, the Agrarian Essays of Wendell Berry, which is a re-gathering of his most notable writing of the last 25 years. Wonderful thought provoking messages that each of us can apply to ourselves in various ways. I would recommend any of his books of essays.

Your archives are filled with wonderful messages and understandings. I dream of that happening with one of his creations. I would love to be part of a discussion here on seniornet with all of your wisdom, ideas and personalities on one of his works.

Lou2

Lou2:

Your enthusiasm for Wendell Berry is actually contagious. I shall have to look into this author---it's worth investigating. Thank you for the suggestion.

Lorrie

Thank you, Lou2, I have ordered two of his books, I mentioned them to my husband thinking that was just his kind of read and he seemed interested but I note the Memories of Jack one (title wrong here) seems to be an actual sort of Remains of the Day type book and so I may steal it and read it myself. I have never heard of this author, and I agree we might want to take a look at one of his books, thank you for bringing that here, Lou2, will know more next week when they come. Ordered the Jayber one too.

ginny

Today at lunch I was reading from this book, setting with Mama, 97 and in a nursing home, and came on this:

" For years now Jayber Crow has referred to the establishment [in this case a hotel] as the local airport: "Where are gathered those about to depart into the heavens."

I was speechless!

Lou2

I have read Jayber Crow and it was my best read of all the books I read last year.

I have A Place on Earth waiting on my TBR pile.

Lou is not exaggerating! This author is wonderful!

Linda

Okay, okay, you convinced me. I'm off to check on Jayber Crow.

Lorrie

Linda, I'm so glad to hear someone else here on seniornet has read Berry. Thanks so much for including your comments. For me he just keeps "getting put in my way"... I finally finished reading Angle of Repose, loved it, just took me forever to get around to it.. and then I found that Wallace Stegner taught Wendell Berry creative writing! So Berry is very dedicated to the land but though he writes in a Kentucky voice, he is/was also a university professor. Linda, let's "beat our drum" for Berry!!

Lou

May I suggest that we read the book "Big Doctoring" by Fitzhugh Mullan, a physician who has written about the lives of primary care doctors (general practicioners.) Click HERE to get more facts about this book. It is non-fiction. I have read the first chapter and it is fascinating.
It is not a technical book and relates to the interests of patients these days.

Robby

Sounds fascinating, Robby! If it were Fiction I would probably snatch the idea up, but I think a lot of readers would like to read all about doctors. I'm sure Ella will take note.

Lorrie

I would like to suggest "The Wiser Side of 60" by Bob August. It is both hilarious and timeless. Filled with short stories dealing with growing older and wiser. It is in a larger typeface, and very easy to read. Here are a few reviews.

“Growing in wisdom, not in age, Bob August captures the art of growing old by sharing his stories of what transpires when you start to realize you have finally reached The Wiser Side of 60.” Lori J. Schmitt, Host and producer of “The Senior Connection Radio show”

“The Wiser Side of 60 is aptly subtitled, An Interesting, Humorous and Insightful Look at Growing Older and Becoming Wiser. This book will delight readers of all ages.August’s writing is amiable and humorous, and it reads like an intimate chat between friends over a cup of coffee. Lively, witty, and entertaining, The Wiser Side of 60 will tickle your funny bone. It is a perfect book for reading aloud to, well, everyone - whether they want to listen or not. After all, they’re bound to come away from the reading with some pearl of wisdom that will stand them in good stead for years to come! Rochelle Caviness, LargePrint Reviews.com

THANKS ROBBIE and thanks READMORE for your suggestions. We are compiling a list of nonfiction books for the coming year and these will be placed there for consideration.

We always appreciate your suggestions!

Has anyone suggested The Little Friend by Donna Tartt? My daughter brought this book in to me last night, so I'm ready and rarin' to go.

Mal

Mal, "The Little Friend" was suggested at one time, but we passed on it because of the similarity to the one we are doing right now, "The Lovely Bones." It has been listed for future reference, though.

Lorrie

Mal, i just ordered that book from Book of the mOnth club. It's not here yet.

Donna Tartt is a great writer. Her The Secret History was a wonderful book. I have The Little Friend but hubby is reading it first.

The Secret History was a wonderful book. I hope we'll be able to read and discuss The Little Friend together here in Books and Lit.

Mal

I recommend a discussion on Tolstoy's "War and Peace" and Donald Neal McKay's, "Domo17" which is just off the press. "Domo17" can be obtained at: http://www.nonethelesspress.com

I have finally gotten my copy of Ann Fadiman's "EX LIBRIS". (Surprised to find a book of that same title by a different author, but fortunately I remembered it was Fadiman's book that was recommended.) By the time I had read the first few pages of the first essay, I knew this was going to be a favorite with me. I chuckled over the marriage of the libraries, and was enormously pleased with myself for at least recognizing several of the words on her sesquepedalian list. (Aha! you'll have to look that one up, won't you?) ...Babi

Babi:

Yes, that is a challenge! I'm just now reaching for a dictionary!

Domo17:

I notice how deftly you slid your own book in with the suggestion of Tolstoy" "War and Peace." Hahahah Seriously, though, I would suggest that you submit a post in our Aurhors' Corner--you might find it very interesting.

AUTHORS CORNER

Lorrie

What happened to the discussion on Chuck Yager's book which was planned for early this year? Mort

Hey, Mort!

The book about Chuck Yager was submitted for proposal some time ago, but unfortunately, only three people showed enough interest. Not enough to start a quorum. How about some other suggestion, Mort? Or have you checked out our upcoming Non-fiction on the menu above?

Lorrie

Someone made a suggestion about Grisham's book, "The Summons". Would anyone be interested in a discussion of same? How about "The Little Friend>?"

Lorrie

Interesting... Message 763 suggested Little Friend, number 764 said we're already doing one very similiar, so no!! Now 773 says how about Little Friend. I have no stack here, just interesting observation.

Lou

Yes, Lou, the subject was kicked around a little while ago, but some of our readers have made good comments about Little Friend, and so we have decided to put it up for proposal, and see if enough people respond to form a quorum. Watch for the announcement on this page!

Lorrie

Hoping this is the right place for book suggestion. I'm now reading THE KILLER ANGELS by Michael Shaara - a fascinating - spellbinding story of the battle of Gettysburg. My biggest problem is not having someone to discuss this with.

Has anyone else read it? Want to talk about it?

CFH (Sue)

I reiterate, the Little Friend is one of the best books I've read in a long time. The characters are fabulous, the tone and the pace of the book are wonderful. I would even agree to lead a discussion of this book IF it were after April.

I am currently reading I don't Know How She Does It for a book club and interested in any ideas on "discussion questions" for this book.

White Teeth by Zadie Smith.

"I Don't Know How She Does It" was suggested some time ago, and we wondered about that particular book. Some say it is very funny, some say it is boring, too British for American tastes, etc. Lwt us add it to our list of "suggested for discussion books".

SADIE BESS: Have you tried writing the publishers for a Readers' guideline? Sometimes they can be very helpful in leading discussions.

Petard:

Also, "White Teeth" has been noted. Why does that title sound familiar to me?

Lorrie

I think I've been watching too many TV commercials!

Lorrie

Me too, those teeth commercials, hahaahah it took me ages to figure out WHAT they are advertising because they can't talk! hahahaha

Anyway we have done and our participants enjoyed White Teeth, back in October of 2000, Petard, that's why it's familiar to you, Lorrie, (gosh it seems like yesterday and it was quite a while ago, actually!) and that is and was a great suggestion!

ginny

White Teeth ~ Zadie Smith ~ 10/00 ~ Book Club Online

Yes CFH: I read The Killer Angels after seeing the movie Gettysberg. It certainly was a powerful book and I enjoyed it. This is one of the few instances where the motion picture fleshed out the story in the book. I thought the movie was excellent.

By the way, our local library keeps putting The Killer Angels in Fiction (both the book and the book on tape). I always relocate it to non-fiction, but they always return it to fiction. Can you tell me why it is classified as fiction. Morty

Mort:

I believe it is considered an historical novel, Mort that's why they keep putting it in Fiction. It is fact-based fiction.

"MY FAVORITE HISTORICAL NOVEL...A superb re-creation of the Battle of Gettysburg, but its real importance is its insight into what the war was about, and what it meant."

--James M. McPherson, author of Battle Cry of Freedom

Lorrie

Hi there! I wrote a book last year about overcoming the fear of public speaking. There are many anecdotes in the book to illustrate various points. How can I have a discussion group started to check it out?

Thanks, Jerry Gold goldspk.com goldspk@hotmail.com

Jerry, you might want to contact someone in the Author's Corner here on the Main page. Here is the link:

AUTHOR'S CORNER

Lorrie

Has anyone read any of the following books? I would like to get your opinions on them, please?

BLUE ANGEL by Francine Prose

LADIES OF COVINGTON SEND THEIR LOVE by Joan Medicott

DEAD MIDNIGHT by Marcia Muller

LAY THAT TRUMPET IN OUR HANDS Carol McCarthy

THE MURDER BOOK By Jonathan Kellerman

BLESSINGS by Anna Quindlen

The Siege By HELEN DUNMORE

Flaubert's Parrot by Julian Barnes

Lorrie

THE MURDER BOOK By Jonathan Kellerman

I read this one... typical Kellerman. A good read but IMO not much there for a discussion.

Flaubert's Parrot by Julian Barnes

I bought this one as a result of another discussion... Haven't read it yet, but would love to read it here.

Sorry, I don't know the others listed.

Lou

Lorrie, I just finished Blessings by Ann Quindlen. It is a "satisfactory" book, in my opinion (what I call bubble-gum reading.) It's a cute little story that is remniscent of "The Circle of Life." Blessings is an estate, owned by Octagenarian, Lydia Blessing. The caretaker of the estate finds an abandoned newborn on the premises and decides to raise this child as his own, secretly.

The jacket blurb says it's about "women as they really are" but that is not what I garnered from this novel. Personally, I would skip it but that is my opinion alone.

Okay, this is what I wanted to hear. Lou2, I felt the same way about Kellerman's book, although I like to read him. We're seriously thinking about offering Flaubert's Parrot as a discussion. More on this later.

Alf: You're the third person whose opinion on Blessings was sort of lukewarm. It's enough to know it probably wouldn't make a good discussion. Thanks, guys!

Lorrie

Lorrie,

If you are looking for a mystery to include I suggest you look at

The Quincunx by Charles Palliser

An older one, but I've just ordered it and looks like there's a lot to be discovered there.

Lou

Thank you, Lou. another one to jot down.

Lorrie

Here are some paperback favorites:

THE SUMMONS, by John Grisham. (Dell, $7.99.) A law professor who has been called home to Mississippi by his father, a dying judge, discovers more than $3 million in cash in the old man's study
TRULY MADLY MANHATTAN, by Nora Roberts. (Silhouette, $7.50.) Two novels ("Local Hero" and "Dual Image") about love in New York.
THE HOURS, by Michael Cunningham. (Picador USA, $13.) The lives of two modern American women, coping with demands of family and friends, converge with the life and work of Virginia Woolf
EVERYTHING'S EVENTUAL, by Stephen King. (Pocket Books, $7.99.) A collection of 14 "dark tales" about the strange and the supernatural. >br> THE PENWYTH CURSE, by Catherine Coulter. (Jove, $7.99.) Magic, mayhem and romance in 13th-century England.
SAFE HARBOR, by Luanne Rice. (Bantam, $7.50.) While investigating a mysterious accident involving her family, an artist falls hard for a marine biologist.
BEL CANTO, by Ann Patchett. (Perennial/HarperCollins, $13.95.) South American rebels storm a vicepresidential mansion during a lyric soprano's recital.
INTO THE WOODS, by V. C. Andrews. (Pocket Books, $7.99.) A dashing young man has his eye on a woman's inheritance as well as her lovely daughter.
STARTING OVER, by Robin Pilcher. (St. Martin's, $6.99.) After her marriage ends, a Scotswoman tries to defend her family's farm against developers —— and also discovers multiple opportunities for romance.

I thoroughly enjoyed Bel Canto. I listened to the tape -- well read.

The Ladies of Covington is a delightful, easy read. Most senior age women consider the possibility of life alone. The strengths of these 3 women is charming and invigorating.

At the present time, I'm listening to Cane River by Lalita Tademy. This is an exceptional story of women is slavery and how they rose above it. The French Creole reading is superb. The author was the VP of Sun Microsystems and the book is a result of her research of her heritage. I all but cheered as these 4 generations of women individually overcame obstacles. Anyone with me on this one?

Dianne:

Your mention of a French Creole reading caught my eye. What exactly is a French Creole reading? And I have noted your reference to Cane River. Thank you for the commentss.

Lorrie

Diane, I'm interested in all three of the books you mention, as well as the Grisham novel, "The Summons". Now let me jot all this down. ... babi

SeniorNet has already done BelCanto. It's been archived!

OOOps!

Sorry, Alf! I thought that name sounded familiar!

Goofball Lorrie

During the day I don't allow myself to sit and read as I'd never accomplish anything, but I do haul a small cassette player around and listen to books on tape. Cane River is a book that takes place in Louisiana from the 1830s to the late 1800s. It covers 4 generations of resilient women initially in slavery. The French Creole influence comes through in many ways to include the wonderful color of the language in that area of the South.

Lorrie, I followed and enjoyed the Bel Canto discussion, though I listened to it as well, on tape. I have a lecture series that includes Bel Canto's influence in music. I just got it and will report later.

di

Di:

Thank you for the explanation. Sounds intriguing.

Lorrie

I'd suggest a book I finished recently, Only in America by John Soltez. It's a novel about a "typical" American trying to deal with some tough times (pretty timely). There's a lot more to it, but I'll just say it's quite nicely written and thought-provoking. Really captures what the country's about in many ways.You can get it off Amazon.com if your local store doesn't carry it.

I would like to recommend my novel "Turnip Blues" to SeniorNet readers. This work, a family saga set in steel-town Pittsburgh, features a cast of senior women, most notably 75-yr-old Mrs. Kuzo, a smart-mouthed steelworker's widow who travels across Pennsylvania to Philadelphia in search of the neglected grave of Bessie Smith, Queen of the Blues--only to find herself in the process. "Turnip Blues" was a finalist for the 1998 Barnes & Noble Discover, and is currently available at amazon for less than $8.00. It's a short (250 pages), punchy read, and not very ladylike.

Ron: I have made a note of your suggestion, and it will be considered for a discussion.

Helen: The same for your book. Did you visit our "Authors Corner" on this same page? You might find it helpful.

Lorrie

Ron, am I correct that you wrote the book you suggest?

I would like to suggest the consideration of Iain Pears' book THE DREAM OF SCIPIO. The book seems to me pertinent for our time - a time of civilization in crisis

Okay, herb. So noted. Sarah, I would say your question has been answered, wouldn't you? I had wondered the same.

Has anyone read "The Pianist?" Someone has suggested this book for a discussion.

Lorrie

OOps, sorry! I meant "The Piano Tuner" by Daniel Mason, rather than the movie "The Pianist."

Has anyone read the Mason book?

Lorrie

LORRIE,

THE HOURS by Michael Cuningham was discussed in conjunction with Virginia Woolfe's MRS. DALLOWAY and archived.

I agree with ALF on Quindlen's BLESSINGS.

I have the Mason book, Lorrie and it looks fabulous, but have not started it yet.

ginny

Lorrie - Mason is a huge sensation here in San Francisco, where he's based. He did a reading which I missed, unfortunately, but a friend raves about the book. He's sort of a Zadie Smith (White Teeth) - very young and hugely successful his first time out!

That really does it! Now, if I can convince Andy and Jeanlock to co-share the Dl's job on a discussion of this book!

Lorrie

I'm reading "Killer Angels", thanks to posts seen here, and find it one of the best books I've read lately. I can see why it won a Pulitzer prize. ...Babi

Thank you for letting us know, Bibi!

Lorrie

Has anyone read "Conversations With An Angel" by Warren Keith? I would love to know what some of you think about it. People I know who have read it either love it or think its only marginally credible. Whether you believe the story or not, I found it interesting to read and think about. Its a fictional story about a meeting between two men who discuss life after death while spending a week's vacation on the island of St Croix. The conversations are fascinating and I got the feeling that the author was telling us important things through a story. It was given to me and I haven't been able to find it on book store shelves but have ordered a few copies through our local Christian book store and have seen it on Barns and Noble and Amazon web sites.

Penney:

For some reason, "conversations With an Angel" sounds familiar to me. I will look into this, get back to you.

Lorrie

It's the book about five students who had one mistake that brought them to the Realm of God who gave them an important Mission to save Humanity. The students were trained by the best scientists of the Cosmos. Though the book is a Paranomal Fantasy, it describes a lot of real events on the Earth. The book is called "Re-configuration" because the students were on drugs and almost died when the God's messengers brought them to G-575-X. If somebody wishes to look at the book,go to: www.G575clonedheroes.com or www.amazon.com or www.BN.com "Re-configuration:Heroes from Outerspace" is the name of the book. The author is Olga Altstatt.

Belindano, Re-configuration sounds strangely interesting. I'll see if it is at our library.

Lorrie, If you find you have read it let me know what you think. I believe it came out within the past year.

Penny

Nope, I'm afraid i haven't read it. I will also check with our SciFi guru, Nellie. In the meantime, I would like to suggest a new discussion we will be starting soon. The book is "The Piano Tuner" by Daniel Mason, and it looks like a stunner! Read this:

"Music may soothe the savage beast, but what can it do for the military-industrial complex?
As the world debates whether to bomb or inspect Saddam Hussein into submission, not even the most starry-eyed idealist has suggested taming him with music.

Daniel Mason's debut novel asks us to consider giving peace a chance –– or at least giving a piece of music a chance. It's a strange, often beautiful story about a London piano tuner in 1886 who receives a remarkable request that plunges him into the center of a geopolitical conflict".....................John Casey, London Spectator

This is a curious story. In 1886, a year after the final British conquest of Upper Burma, a piano-tuner, Edgar Drake, is requested by the War Office to travel to the Shan States — still largely untouched by British power — to tune a rare 1840s Erard piano. The piano was originally shipped to one Surgeon-Major Antony Carroll, an ambiguous, slightly Kurtz-like figure, who rules a remote area in the Shan States, and who is either making peace or fomenting war or even (as we finally hear alleged) spying for the Russians among the Shan. It remains unclear throughout the novel just why Carroll required a piano — and especially such a rare one — for his enterprises, nefarious or patriotic, nor why he had not realised from the first that it was bound to go out of tune instantly in the Shan jungles. But on the one occasion when the Erard is properly played — by Drake — it has an improbably powerful effect on the Shan sawbwas whom Carroll has assembled in his fiefdom to discuss a peace treaty with the encroaching British power."

Come join us in discussing this wonderful book. Here is the link:

The Piano Tuner

Lorrie