Why We Read What We Read Export

I have always been a reader. As an adult I have never required more than 5 or 6 hours of sleep and have often read until late in the night before going to sleep. I have never been a fast reader and now with developing cataracts I am slower than ever. Even so I have always had high comprehension of what I read and have always scored my highest grades on the reading sections of IQ and the string of tests popular with the navy, universities, and various employers over the years. Reading got me through College with three degrees and of course it was of particular importance in law school which I attended part time at night.

After retirement in 1989 I began a reading program that resulted in reading 12 to 15 books a year during the first years most of which were new non-fiction books. My fiction period had come years earlier during the 1960’s. After 1994 my reading schedule lessened somewhat after I got Internet access and began to devote time there. Since 1998 I have been active with Senior’s Net and the B & L Section. During this time I have led or co-led some half dozen Book discussions and also host the: History Book Forum.”

All,

Welcome to our new discussion.

I guess all of us are devoted readers and have been all of our lives.

I suppose that not all of us have the same reasons that we still read other than the sheer love of doing it.

I wonder, did any of you have roadblocks put in your path when you were young concerning reading? You know, your parents telling you to get your nose out of that book and go outside a play in the fresh air? Or having a teacher or librarian telling you that you could not check out or read books from the library that were above your grade level? What effect did that have on why you read today?

Tiger Tom

I'll speak for John, too - just this once. I know he agrees that we couldn't imagine not reading. Even when we had four little kids - they would hear "Just a minute; Wait until I finish this paragraph/page/chapter; etc." I always figured they'd either become avid readers, too, or never read at all, just as a reaction. Of course, now in their 40s, they're all bookworms, too...as are their children. What a pleasure to see it going on down the generations.

Mary

No, to all your questions re roadblocks when I was growing up. In fact, my father, provided me with books, pencils and paper and a place under a large Parsons-type table where there was a broad shelf for me to play school, and stay out of the way of my mother and the lady who was taking care of her. (My mother was ill most of her life, but particularly so when I was a little girl of pre-school age.) I don't remember learning to read. It seems as though I've always known how to read. And, also, my father introduced me to the newspaper, and allowed me to read everything in there. As a result, I developed an interest in a great variety of subjects.

I become very involved with whatever i am reading, and it is difficult for someone to get my attention away from whatever I may be reading.

I read for stimulation and to satisfy my curiosity. I lived with no TV from 1964 until 1995, most of those years with no other adult in the house, so spent more hours reading than average. I have never found TV to cut down on reading time, but I do find time on the internet filling a lot of that curiosity caused need. Now, with so little available to me to read which is really interesting and so much available on the net, I find myself more content watching the market or sports on TV and working on projects at the same time. Also, I use pencil puzzles to escape or to put myself to sleep instead of reading. Reading things I really enjoy tends to very often wake me up instead of helping me relax into slumber.

As a kid and often rather trapped feeling younger adult, I read for escape. For that purpose, the setting of a fiction book was much more important than the actual story. I wanted a story about a loner - out and away from cities or crowds. It could be about a boy runaway or a wolf - an old man fishing or young man learning to break horses.

Now, I find satisfying fiction hard to find. So much of it is about crowded situations with lots of violent action - not the kind of settings I still crave. With retirement, marriage and less confusion around me, I just don't look to books for escape anymore, though I still enjoy one for that purpose if it happens to cross my path. I have shelves full of once or twice read books which would still meet that need if it were strong enough.

I imagine I'm not the only one here to remember reading under the covers by the light of a flashlight. Hearing Mom's footsteps coming down the hall, heart pounding, torn between finishing the sentence or risk getting caught. Ahh, the sweet memory of it all. Probably one reason that I just about must read before going to sleep, every night. Now instead of Mom checking to see if I'm still awake, it's my husband asking me I'm about ready to go to sleep. I keep a cloth by my side of the bed to drape over his eyes when necessary. But I love to read during the day, too - just not as much time then. I do find that the internet cuts into my reading time - or vice versa. But it's all great.

Why do I read?

The world that has been open to me through books is a big reason I read. I would hate to lose that world.

Tiger Tom

Why do I read? Because I love to. Why do I read mainly Science Fiction and Fantasy? Because I love to spend time in worlds that exist only in the imagination.

No one ever stopped me from reading, although there may have been the occasional comment about my having my nose buried in a book -just like now I get the occasional comment about sitting in front of the computer.

getting my American Girl magazine and reading it in bed. The magazine often ran serial stories, I would wait until the last of the series was in my hot little hands before starting the first part. To this day I like to have all of a series of books, so that as I finish one I can start the next one.

One of the reasons I read is to have reasonable conclusions and satisfying endings. Life was uncertain enough for me so I like things all wrapped up in a tidy ending. There was one author A. E. Van Voight who wrote in such a way as to leave me hanging. I would turn the page and there wasn't any more to the book! That would make me stop and think and often then I would 'get it'.

Is anybody familiar with Nicholas Basbanes? I went to hear him speak this evening. I haven't read either of his books, but I plan to. He has a delightful view of the world of books. Check him out. These are the titles of his two books:

"A Gentle Madness: Bibliophiles, Bibliomanes and the Eternal Passion for Books"

"Patience and Fortitude: A Roving Chronicle of Book People, Book Places and Book Culture."

He says he not sure whether he is a "bibliophile" or a "bibliomaniac", but he does know there is a fine line dividing the two.

And this is a web site about him.

http://gateway.library.uiuc.edu/colloquium/basbanes.html

Mary

gaj, i discovered an author who did exactly the same as A.E.Van Voight, Martin Amis.When I turned the last page of Night Train i could not believe it!Actually thought "what the heck?" I am one who doesn't read expecting a satisfactory ending, i do like thought provoking stuff but that was a pure "oh!"and so i felt really miffed!Like all of you i could not imagine life without books and have to work at collecting paperbacks for holiday reading, they are more important than my clothes! Me too Diane, under the bedclothes with a torch, but i can't actually remember what i read although most certainly the village library was my only sourcebefore going to secondary school where we were iniatiated into the classics of English literature and Shakespeare.Now ,most of my favourite authors are American writers.Nellie did you ever read Philip K Dick ,Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep? [How that was made into the movie Blade Runner i cannot imagine!]I used to get an American[?] film magazine when i was about 13 maybe called Picturegoer, and my Christmas always brought me a Film Review hardback, it is pure nostalgia recalling these days here.

All,

Does anyone see a pattern here?

It seems that most, if not all, of us cannot remember a time when we could not read. We took to reading like a Duck to Water. It seems to be in our Blood.

Strange in a way because not all of us were raised around books or had parents who read as a habit.

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom: We seek to nourish our brain, our mind, that inner wish to find out more, to smile, to be amused, to be elevated, to be provoked, to be inspired, to be delighted . . . . . .

The third chapter of Thoreau’s classic writing, “Walden,” is entitled “Reading.” Here with out directly answering our specific question Thoreau tells us something of his thoughts concerning the reading activity:

1. Those who have not learned to read the ancient classics in the language in which they were written must have a very imperfect knowledge of the history of the human race; for it is remarkable that no transcript of them has ever been made in any modern tongue, unless our civilization itself may be regarded as such a transcript. Homer has never yet been printed in English, nor Aeschylus, nor Virgil even—works as refined, as solidly done, and as beautiful almost as the morning itself; for later writers say that we will of their genius, have rarely, if ever, equalled the elaborate beauty and finish and the lifelong and heroic literary labors of the ancients. [Note Homer and all the classic authors mentioned had as Thoreau well knew been published in English. What he means is that the full rich meaning and all the overtones and subtleties do not come through in the translation. This note is paraphrased from the annotation in the edition I am reading]

2. The work of the great poets have never yet been read by mankind, for only great poets can read them. They have only been read as the multitude read the stars, at most astrologically, not astronomically. Most men have learned to read to serve a paltry convenience, as they have learned to cipher in order to keep accounts and not be cheated in trade; but of reading as a noble and intellectual exercise they know little or nothing; yet this only is reading, in a high sense, not that which lulls us as a luxury and suffers the nobler faculties to sleep the while, but what we have to stand on tiptoes to read and devote our most alert and wakeful hours to.

3. The best books are not read even by those who are called good readers. What does our Concord culture amount to? There is in this town, with very few exceptions, no taste for the best or for very good books even in English literature, whose words all can read and spell. Even the college-bred and so called liberally educated men here and elsewhere have really little or no acquaintance with the English classics; and for the recorded wisdom of mankind, the ancient classics and Bibles, which are accessible to all who will know of them, there are the feeblest efforts any where made to become acquainted with them.

Would you say from these quotations that Henry David Thoreau might deserve some of the criticism that has been leveled on him for intellectual snobbery?

I think there are levels of learning, and once you've reached a certain level you KNOW that the rest of humanity is not there. It doesn't mean you distain them because everyone has his/her own reasons for what they do, but it is only the REALITY as he sees it and the TRUTH. The rest of us might not like to hear that, but the fact is, if you only know how to add and subtract and you have no idea of calculus, that doesn't mean the person who does know calculus has to come down to the adding and subtracting level. He really is on a different level.
Personally I feel that way about a lot of things, anything from reading, intellectual debate, wines, food. There are levels, and the average person only has an average level, which serves him/her well. But there are always others whose life is filled with curiosity and often they eventually get to a different level in all kinds of subjects, and once there you cannot go back and be happy with "average".
I think that's a HUGE mistake our conformist world tends to make, and they judge stuff as one level being better than another, which they are not--they are just different, and each level serves the person's needs who is on that particular level. As I've said before here with one of my posts, a grocery store wine is fine and serves it purpose, but if you've ever tasted a Lafitte Rothchild that has been well stored, the grocery store wine will never again be the same to you even though it might serve its purpose. But people do call that snobbery and I happen to think it's TRUTH, and that the definition of snobbery is wrong.

Harold,

If that isn't a little snobbish it is a least "One Upmanship."

Some of the "Classics" are great, some good and some a damned bore. But parading the fact that YOU have read and CAN appreciate the "classics" tends to put me off. I don't read trash but what I do read I enjoy even if it doesn't fall in to the "Classics" Class.

Tiger Tom

called "The Highly Sensitive Person" written by a renowned psychologist, and her theory (which I agree with and have intuited for a long time) is that about 20% of people in any society are "different" from the other 80%. About 80% of the population just does the day to day living, sort of with blinders on in a way, and it's fine because they are usually the "action" people and the "doers" and the "physically active", etc. The other 20% for some reason have highly refined senses---that is, they hear more, they see colors better, they have intuition about how other's are feeling, they pick up the dynamics between people almost immediately, they are incredibly curious about everything, they make connections between things. And that's usually the group of people that our creative artists, scientists, wise men, come from. They just ARE WHAT THEY ARE, and it's not snobbery in the least. There are advantages and disadvantages to being that way, just as there is for the other 80% of people. One of the disadvantages is that the "highly sensitive" people often need retreat from the world for longer periods of time because their senses overwhelm them; so they have to have control over their environments when things get to be too much for them. They are often considered shy also, but are really not. They just tend to be very self sufficient and get their inner strength from being alone, whereas the 80% majority gets its renewal of inner strength from being with others.
I would even go so far as to say that most people who truly enjoy reading and exploration of ideas, etc., are part of that 20%. It's not that they don't like people, but a lot of times they just PREFER to be alone to read or think or have creative stuff going through the brain.
Where our society goes wrong is in judging either the 80% or the 20% to be wrong. Neither is wrong. The world needs both to get the business of the world accomplished, and one without the other would eventually end up going off the deep end. Just think if we had all "doers" around, with no one ever to think or create; or if he had all "thinkers" around with no one ever to "do". It would be disaster. So we really need each other and need to learn to appreciate each other, but also be honest about where our talents lie.
When you have the 20% characteristics combined with the 80% characteristics in a person, that's usually one who is in the genius category, such as Leonardo da Vinci. There are very few of those. Usually we are one or the other, and that's all right. No judgment needs to be made about one being somehow "better" than the other.

reading something in its original language. Language has nuances that CANNOT be translated. With a translation you might get the "drift" of the message, but never the real nitty gritty of what the author meant. I know that for a fact because I read in three languages and have experienced it personally. Since we are basically a Greco-Roman society, it probably would be extremely helpful to be able to read all those classics in their original languages to get the REAL picture, but life has only 24 hours a day for everyone, so we have to make choices. That's the limitation of human life. But to deny that there is something more there just because we are limited is, I think, foolish.
For instance, when I read someone like Thomas Merton, the Catholic monk and hermit, I realize that I'm not on his level of thinking or knowledge. It doesn't bother me in the least because I'm reading him to learn something. If I want to read something for relaxation I read a light novel. Both are OK, but serve different purposes, but to claim that one author is as good as another, or to say that the romance novel is as esoteric as Merton, is nonsense. And I think that's what Thoreau was saying. But right away we get defensive, even though we KNOW that this man, being one of the great original thinkers in our American society, is somewhere above us in knowledge of at least the subject he knows something about. So why not give him credit where credit is due?

OK, everybody, let's have rebuttals and commentary.I'd love to hear what you all think. I happen to be one of those 20% that is isatiably curious and loves to hear what others think even whe I disagree with them. And I'm often called a snob, but I don't consider that my problem in the least.

When our children and grandchildren were little, we wanted to instill in them the love of reading and learning. We started out reading to them, then encouraged them to read on their own. At that stage it didn't matter WHAT they read - cereal boxes, telephone books, comic books - anything. (All of us posters know very well that we will read cereal boxes if nothing else is available!)

One of our grands had colic (that dreaded 3-month bout of crying and stomach pains). While sitting up with this 2-month old, his dad read aloud to him from whatever Dad was reading at the time, and he was into military history - not the usual choice for an infant. When the child was 6-7 and reading on his own, Dad would still read to him at night, but would read things way above the child's reading level, like "The Last of the Mohicans" or "The Three Musketeers", etc. The grand is now in the 7th grade, winning academic challenges, and taking teen classes at a nearby university in the summertime.

The point, of course, that I make is that readers just "ARE", but can be encouraged and motivated and captivated. And what a wonderful gift to give a child.

Mary

Wow Mountain gal we need you in Walden - I love what you are saying - maybe because I am one of the self-sufficient shy types that drive my daughter crazy - she believes in order to the "successful" in life, which she had determained means earning a "good" income, than to achieve this success you must be socially active with many many friends and acquaintances.

Of course her reading seems to be limited to 'how to" books - she does not seem to need what I would 'need' to surround my self with in order to know my soul - I admire how she makes everyone feel great in her presence but huuhh I just can't be "on" all the time and for me it would be just that, being "on." And so where I may never be rich in money I feel rich in many other ways.

Interesting is she has two boys - one is a recluse reader who is really very well liked by his classmates - what helps is at 12 he can play jazz piano but, orders things like Lemon Curd for desert - and the other, age 8, although an advanced reader and plays his violin, is all competion and plays with great verve every sport in season, prefers pizza. Heheehe she understands her 8 year old and is exasperiated with her 12 year old. And so l wouldn't know about all the percentages but there seems to be room for both kinds of personalities.

I agree with the above about reading and intelligence, although I wonder if anyone opinionated would consider him/herself member of the 80% group? Another question would be, why do we write? Is it because we want to feel superior in our thinking, we need acceptance, or just a forum? Anyone with an opinion on that?

I agree with all of you as to why we read, but I wonder, GINGA, what you mean by writing? Do you write and what is it you write?

How many of us write?

MARY brought a good topic for discussion when she was talking about Nicholas Basbanes - or I should say he brought up the subject of libraries.

I'm there every week and have been all my life, there is nothing I look forward to more than being in a library; however who decides what to buy and how many of a particular book to buy. I'm sure the person who orders the books would know to buy many John Grisham books, of course, but how would they know about an author that is new?

Do publishing companies send a free copy to every library in the country?

The reference librarians have a degree in library science; but how does one of them advance through the system to get into management?

Anyone know any librarians?

Yes Ella, I do write, mostly nostalgic stories from both sides of the Atlantic. But why, I still don't know

It has been said, ginga, that people write because they believe they have something to say.

I have plenty of them. LOL. I think people write for the same reasons they paint or dance or compose, or any of the arts. It's a form of self-expression (that's creative writing I'm talking about now, writing manuals doesn't count). Maybe in a certain area someone does have a good idea that he/she feels is superior, new, interesting, fun, and so wishes to express that in a written form if that's their most comfortable way of expression. With artists, even though they like acceptance, I don't think that's a requirement. Artistic expression is a "NEED" for some, like breathing, or like reading. Artists can't imagine a life without it. If artists receive acceptance for it, that's fine; but they would be doing it even without acceptance or recognition of any kind just because the artist (in whatever medium) has to do that. It's part of who he/she is.

think she had found the pot o' gold if publishers sent free books of the new ones that get published. But they don't, or at least not regularly. Libraries have a terrible time with funding and therefore never have enough money to buy books. I think that's why you often see old and very dilapidated books in a library, except for a shelf or two of new ones. Those are probably all they can afford. Besides books these days, libraries also have to spend money on videos and computers, which cuts into the budget even more. Our library gets a lot of donations from people in town, and the "Friends of the Library" go through those and shelve what they think will circulate well, and then sell the rest for nominal amounts.

There's also a program where anyone can request a book from any other library in the county, and here we have a program that will even request a book from a neighboring state, but you have to know what you want. It's not like browsing through the new books in a book store. I try very hard not to go into a book store because I ALWAYS come out having spent far more than I can really afford, but I love a lot of the new books for the easy typefaces and the really clear illustrations that they have compared to the old stuff that is often available from a library.

Anyhow, because of that I never feel bad when I have library fines that add up, because I figure we both win--I enjoyed having the books around and the library is getting a bit of extra money into their coffers. In a small town though, they often just let you get away without paying the fine because everyone is just more friendly.

Mountaingal, to me there is a difference between a person who belongs in that 20% and who just lives their life and let's others live theirs; and a person who belongs in that 20% who spends all their time telling the remaining 80% of the people that they are not as good because they are not at the level of those who are in the 20% classification.

Roidininki, yes I did read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep a very long time ago.

I read what I like, and that can include the classics and the great books of literature, and it can include romance, mystery, best seller, poetry, science fiction, horror, thrillers, fantasy, science, history, gardening, and even cookbooks.

Mountaingal,

Ever hear about the 80 - 20 rule?

80 percent of the work is done by 20 percent of the workers. You have probably seen it in places where you have worked: There are those who seem to be always doing and those who seem to be always just getting by.

I think that in a lot of life the 20 percent are doing the 80 percent.

Without that 20 percent not much would get done.

Tiger Tom

I forgot something. There is another big reason I read - facts, instructions, school books, etc. I choose to read because I hate to ask someone else for help. If it was learned from a book, I didn't have to have someone belittle me as they told me how to do something.

As to the 80/20% idea, I just barely made it into MENSA once on the scores of my GREs which were weighted for the time of day to favor a morning person over most students. Those of us in the top 2% of IQs are different from the other 98% but not nearly as different as the top 1% is from the second 1%. To me, it is just a fact about me which proves I learn school subjects pretty easily, but doesn't mention my lack of spatial judgement, the fact that I am absent minded, my lack of ambition, etc. - all traits which often differ for those a few percent lower allowing them to achieve much more than I ever have.

I have often wondered if my success in school and in taking tests wasn't partially due to the fact my older brother taught me to read, add and subtract before I started first grade. Not only did I have a wonderful head start, but teachers assumed I was brilliant and gave me a lot of extra attention. Maybe he was the realy bright one and I rode his coattails.

Ben,

MENSA! You are right though, intelligence is what you do with it. It helps, I guess, to have people around who would support a bright child and help him use his intelligence.

Tiger Tom

Oh, I also forgot that I never have been a good speller - see "realy" in above post. (I noticed it too late to correct without deleting and starting over.)

Mountaingal - I haven't read a post from you since the Biography of Edna St. Vincent Millay, and wondered what happened to you. As to libraries, we are very fortunate in my city to have a wonderful system and I can get a copy of any book I desire even if they have to send to other counties for it. Our Metropolitan library always gets a bond issue passed, we love libraries here.

If my branch doesn't have it I just request it and it is sent out by truck in two days time. I love the "old dilapidated" books as that tells me they are good and have been read many times. Try that - it works. Those that were published a decade ago and still look new you can forget!

That still doesn't answer my question of who decides what books to order and how many, particularly of a new author. They must have a source they use for decisions. And how do librarians get promoted in the system. Just my curiousity speaking here, I thought perhaps we might have a librarian among us.

that goes two ways. Just because someone in the 20% group expresses an opinion doesn't mean those in the 80% group have the right to call them snobs or try and pull them into the "average". Why can't we just let each other be whoever we are without making judgment calls? That goes for both sides.

Let me give you an example I run into all the time. I live near Reno, Nevada where there are a lot of casinos. We all know about casinos and the food they serve to lure customers in. Well, when I go on a date and the guy wants to go to a casino to eat, I go along and even though it's not really my cuppa tea, I enjoy myself well enough because I enjoy myself almost anywhere. However, if he thereupon goes on and on about how wonderful the food was, I still try not to say comment---unless he insists I agree with him, at which point it gets a bit sticky. What can I say? I don't agree with him. Yes, there is plenty of food there. Yes, it's reasonably priced. Yes, it is appealing to the eye? But the best? No way!!! Not on your life! But when I say that (and I only say it once I feel cornered) then I'm considered a snob. Why? He cornered me, and I'm being honest. What's wrong with that? I guess to be "nice" I'm supposed to agree because that's the majority view? But I feel pretty resentful at being cornered like that.

Or if we are in a restaurant and the are paying a bundle for a meal, and the food is so-so and the service is abysmal. I say something. I say it nicely and politely, but I'm NOT gonna let that go. That is my hard-earned money I'm spending. All too often the person I'm with doesn't see it. He/she thinks it was all fine, but that might be because he/she hasn't ever experienced the first-class treatment that it should have been for that amount of $$$$. But people would rather be "nice" and let it go, whereas I don't.

Oh, and then there's the whole thing of pronunciation of words. I speak French; therefore I know how to pronounce something like "creme brulee" properly. But when I do I get the "oh lala, aren't we being fancy!" commentary. No, we are not being fancy. We are just saying what we know. It's a fact. Does that mean I have to pronounce the words the way they would to meet with their approval? I don't say anything if I hear it mispronounced, but I sure get the commentary in the opposite direction.

Same with books. A friend who reads only Louis Lamour (sp?) and has never read a classic, and yet tries to tell me that I'm a snob when I'm reading one? No way am I gonna let that go. They are gonna get a lecture on manners, and they won't like it, but I don't care. And they can either learn to like me as I am, with all my "high-class" tastes, or they can hit the road. Thank goodness I do have good friends who don't agree with me, but they allow me to be who I am and don't try to put me into their mold. So we get along fine.

Frankly, I think our society has a whole lot of trouble with personal boundaries. It seems like we don't know where they begin or end. But I know where mine begin and end and I don't want someone calling me a snob because I know that. It's no one's business if I prefer classical music and can't abide country and western. I'm not saying they can't like country and western, but it isn't for me and I prefer not to hear it. I have a right to say that as much as they have the right to express what they like, but that's considered snobbery. So it's definitely a two-way street.

ahhh Mountain Gal there are so many times you just have to roll your pant legs up a bit when you are among folks so that you do not step in all their sh--

Let it go - I doubt your ego is so fragile that you need the approval and good opinion of others - it is their problem and some are simply uncomfortable enough that what you say raises their ignorance that they have to say something - for years I never understood why when I shared something I seldom got any response till my daughter told me I talk over the heads of most people and use literary references that I assume people learn back in grade school - at first I couldn't accept what she was saying - and then I listened with new ears and realize their references were different.

'Right - wrong' shoot, no, just different - heck they can speak of so many disciplines that I am only learning now.

And we all have our way of saying things - I know here often we have visitors to the State asking directions for places like Manor which we say as May-nor and how often someone local has no clue what is being asked since the visitor is saying Man-er - in Texas Manor is May-nor and in French brulee is Brew-lay - Mountain gal life is just too short to feel the affects of 47 of the continent's 48 States as they speak differently and if we are looking for a hierarchy of interests, reading, speaking, writing by giving a percentage of those who are 'correct,' boy are we setting up life as an exercise in judgmental criticism.

If someone wants to say things differently or wants to have your agreement as to their tastes heck, they are the ones with the problem - and 'need' your approval to the point they will even abuse you by making you feel as if you must defend yourself -

About the only way I see this 80-20 really making sense is that we all only use 20% of our skills to accomplish and we only retain 20% of what we read - so why worry about the other 80% of folks when we could pay more attention to the 80% of ourselves that we are not using and sharing with the universe.

Looking for only 20% of folks that live, think, talk and read as we do smacks of elitism and sure is reminiscent of nineteenth century Europe. Just do your thing Mountain Gal and start to read some about how to handle emotional and verbial abuse.

Mountaingal, in all those examples you have given you were not being in the least snobbish, the way I see things. I have a more narrow definition of the term than others do, I think: for me to see someone as being a snob they have to purposefully put others down, either verbally or through actions.

I think it is very difficult to be part of that 20% of people mentioned in that book -no one understands you, except other members of the 20%.

I'm in the 0% who belong neither in one group or the other. LOL. I stand alone. I am just me...and you are all, just you.

Now back to why I read. Do you know I don't really know why I read? Sometimes it is something to do to pass the time -it keeps me from being bored. Sometimes I read to find some bit of information. Sometimes I read for the sake of reading -just because I can.

Mountaingal, do you know who wrote The Highly Sensitive Person? I wouldn't mind reading the book.

I'm just me, but the misunderstandings get old really fast. Most of the time I let it go, unless the point is very important to me and silence would be taken as tacit approval by the other, or the relationship is important enough to me where understanding is a necessity so I don't have to be "on" all the time as Barbara so aptly stated. Anyhow, here's the book Nellie. I'm not sure I agree with everything she says, as I never do agree with things 100%, but it makes a really good point: The Highly Sensitive Person: How to Thrive When The World Overwhelms You--- Elaine N. Aron Tracy Behar (Editor)

Regarding why I like to read, heck, I posted my commentary regarding that on the "No Matter What I'm keeping this Book Board" because I didn't know this board was here. Ciao!

Mountain Gal - I know I am the only one like me. One day when I was feeling lonesome, I told my mother I wish I had been twins. She put her hands on her hips, cocked her head and said, "Honey, I love you, but if you had been twins I would have drowned you both."

For several years, I left my watch and bedroom clock on Standard time all year with the simple reasoning that I felt no need to change when everyone else was wrong and I was right. (When the sun is close to its highest point, it is noon, so why lie?) I lived without a TV from '64 until '95 and have done without owning a car since the early 80s. I guess I learned very early on that I couldn't hope to be like everybody else, so felt free from such an unreasonable requirement. It has saved me a lot of frustration and probably many dollars, too.

Now, back to the subject of reading. Maybe some of us read because that is one thing we can do our own way, at our own speed, with no social pressure to speak of - real freedom for our minds.

Ben, Mountaingal,

Nice to know that people have the courage to live life on their own terms.

It can not have been easy.

I expect that the reward was more than worth the cost.

Tiger Tom

TIGER TOM - Some of us are just so sure we are different so early on, we have no choice except either to accept and enjoy the difference or crack up trying to conform. The delightful part about accepting differnces in ourselves is that it allows the easy acceptance of the differences of others. As far as I am concerned, I find differences in others delightful. I concider most folks running around loose as characters in a wonderful novel.

love your mother's comment!!! Sometimes I wonder how my mother did it, and I'm sure there were times when she would cheerfully have drowned us too, because both my brother and I were "different" and so was my father--so in our family it was three against one. But because I had support, I was also confident in who I was from very early on. Poor mom! I shall have to go and give her a special hug today for putting up with all of us! LOL

with your clocks? I still do that. Never owned a watch either. The sun is my clock and it's good enough. Have not had a TV for over 25 years either (oh THAT one really bothers people, and then they insist on giving me one, which I don't want and refuse--and there's another go-round!). I do my own thing the way I see it, and anyone who doesn't like it can hit the road. But I appreciate the uniqueness of people too---but from a distance, with my private space unhampered to do what I feel is right for me. LOL

When I find parents trying to raise gifted kids, I always tell them the same thing: When I was little, they called us "naughty" - nowadays, they call kids like that "creative." It means the same thing - if you let them live to be 21, you'll be proud of them. Three of our four fit in that category, so I have a good idea what I'm talking about.

Thanks Mountaingal!

I was thinking some more about why we read, and it is in great part because we are able to read; we have acquired the skill to mentally put letters together into words, words into sentences, sentences into paragraphs, paragraphs into chapters, and chapters into books. Sadly there are those who have not acquired that skill, or have acquired it only partly so that reading is a chore.

The funny thing is, I don't remember how I learned to read. I do know I knew how to read before I went to school and was mainly self taught.

Our oldest is/was naughty and creative and gifted. Since he is now 28 years old, I can really enjoy him. My mother pointed out his 'giftedness' to me when he was under two years old. Ray and I often said 'he listens to a different drummer'. I am very proud of him.

However, he gets me mad when he critizes what I read! He doesn't understand that I read what I am in the mood for at the time. Lately I have been reading more romances than ever before because they have happy endings and with the breast cancer and all I need happy endings! Someday I will read my collection of Anne Tyler and Jane Smiley. Also read some of the classics waiting on my To Read shelf by Thomas Hardy and George Elliot.

I have my BA in English Literature and understand the difference between pop fiction and lasting fiction. I like both!

I began reading before I started school. I read adult books from age 7. Why did I read. Escapism from the reality of being poor and my alcoholic father who incidently was a very intelligent man. When my children were growing up and I held down a career I had little time to read. Four kids - demanding job there were not enough hours in a day. Now kids gone, husband passsed away at a relatively young age I have time to indulge my passion. I can remember being so engrossed in a book as a child I read with a torch under the blankets. Oh the trouble it caused. My bed was inspected for hidden books at lights out! I read now simply for pleasure but secondly probably escapism to a certain extent.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

You are not alone. Many, myself included, read or have read for escape from troubles.

I didn't have the most wonderful family either. Dad usualy had his nose in a beer bottle and Mother who didn't want children but found that was the only way she could get and hold my dad.

Books were my haven for many years.

I don't regret the reading and escape. It kept me going.

Tiger Tom

"escape" routine. I was soooooo lucky because I didn't need to do that---at least not from my family, and at least not at that age. I did a lot of "escape painting and drawing" during bombing raids in the war years, and when we moved from Germany to Canada because I didn't speak English and felt very lost for quite some time, but the ability to draw and paint helped me over the hump because people admired it and wanted to know how to do it too.

I was always reading under the covers with a flashlight too, but my dad only got mad at me for that because he had a theory that it would ruin my eyes, not because I liked to read, since he did too and understood that part of it. Hahaha! I recall my bed being inspected also, for flashlights and hidden books, but I was smart enough not to keep them near my bed. Sometimes daddy would do a "surprise inspection" just like in the army, and then I was caught red handed, but he usually just explained to me why he was so against reading with a flashlight and just asked me not to do it again---and as soon as he shut the door, of course, I did---and he knew it too.

My brother and I both knew how to read before we ever entered kindergarten. We picked it up sort of by osmosis, and another way we had of picking it up that I remember was while daddy was driving (he had a motorcycle and we would sit in the side car) he would read signs out loud, and pretty soon we realized he was sounding out letters that made these wonderful WORDS. While we lived in Canada one of my favorite memories is of driving down the highway and reading the "Burma Shave" signs. Remember them? Then we would end up composing our own slogans and we'd laugh and giggle in the back of the car, especially if it was a play on words my German parents didn't understand but pretended to understand. It would cause us to roll our eyes and poke each other and giggle so much that momma finally had to lay down the law. but the way my brother and I actually learned English was with the help of comic books. We had stacks and stacks of them in a dusty room on the second floor of the house, and on rainy days that's where we spent all of our time. My parents NEVER censored anything we read. Daddy figured if we were curious about it, there was a reason, and if we found the information on our own he felt that was an ability we would need. So we read all those horrible horror comics right along with Donald Duck and Little Lulu and Caspar the Ghost.

Hey, I ran across some of those Burma Shave signs on the net the other day, a whole slew of them, and they brought back such fond memories.

I saw the questions about libraries and buying books in #26, (Ella), and since I am employed as a Library Assistant II, I can fill in a little about the acquisition of books. A lot of larger libraries use approval systems, especially when they have to supply books for numerous branches. They have a buying agreement with a given company so that they receive a set number of copies of each title, and then they have the right to send back any that do not meet their profile, i.e., format, too popular or scholarly, etc. Academic libraries would have very complicated profiles, and still would have a person in each subject area responsible for accepting or rejecting each title.

Libraries also use firm orders for acquiring books, i.e., when they have specific requests, and have to spend various funds in their budgets for certain kids of books, media periodicals. In my library, there are 3 persons in Approval and about a dozen employees who handle ordering and receiving - and the whole part of the process is just one Section in Technical Services. Since there are often Library Schools in larger universities, the "way" to get on board most often, is to be a student in the Library School, which is a part of the Graduate School. (I did not go to Lib School, but have been employed in other academic libraries) You may specialize in all areas, such as Science and Technology, Social Sciences, Humanities, Area Studies, as all of these clusters are clumped together, and within them, there are specialized bibliographers who handle the books and budgets for each subject, i.e., History, Chemistry, Reference, Business, Economics, etc. It is my job to deal with each bibliographer and return all books that they reject, and then process each book to its specialized destination. There is a Computer program with a very specialized program that assigns and prints out records for each unique titles,so that it does arrive at its correct destination, again usually determined by the terms of the Profile for the particular library.

Perhaps I have said too much, or too little. If you need/want more info, let me know...It's my Job....I think I have the best job on Campus, since I get to open all the boxes - about 20 boxes per week, and get to see the books, first --- it's like Christmas every week.

Isak2002

Isak - from your e-mail address, you're at the University of Texas - certainly a huge system. Which campus?

I work at Perry-Casteneda Library, on the main campus.

Isak2002, I practically lived at that library from '86 to '90, a wonderful place.

Betty

Betty, isn't it great?? I have been there seven years - hardly seems possible. My workspace is back behind the elevators, not a public service area, and I have especially enjoyed the improvements that were recently made to the lobby area, with the new paint, workstations and even some new and refurbished comfortable seating.Now the elevators are being upgraded - all of this for ADA compliance. I gravitate to the New Books shelves, and read a lot of them, whenever possible. Yesterday, I did something really neat - found a book to read all the way through at one sitting - so I just went ahead and "Did it!" What a treat. It was The Gardens of Covington, by Joan Medlicott. Pure serendipity! Isak

I would be lost without books. The are entertaining and educational and some seem like friends. Many of them inspire creativity and hope and take me to other parts of the world. I enjoy being in the library, the book store and the used bookstore. You never need be bored with a good book.

Pineneedle, isak2002,

Welcome to our discussion. Hope you all stay a good long while.

Pineneedle, never did find out your Gender, not that it matters all that much. Just wondering.

When you read do you travel around the world and in time?

iszak2002, you sound as if you have a dream job. How do you keep your hands off the books? I would probably last in that job a few days because I would spend all of the time with my nose in a book.

Tiger Tom

I read for all the reasons you have mentioned before me. Right now I read light fiction and mysteries as I feel the need for escape. I could read before starting school also. My mother bought me a new dress and shoes and took me to registration at the first day of school when I was 5, but I was sent home because my birthday was in March and there was a November cut off date at the time. There was also no kindergarten program. I cried for several days because I couldn't go to school.

When I was attending the University of South Carolina, I worked at the McKissick Library and later the South Caroliniana library. I shelved books (and was quite slow at it as I'd get back in the stacks and start reading books that caught my interest). I also did filing and typing. I loved those jobs. They never seemed like work.

My late husband was a member of our local library board for almost 20 years and the treasurer who paid the librarians and all the bills. When he first started volunteering there, the book collection was small and fairly old. He talked both the local banks into renting popular fiction for the library. He bought library journals for the librarians (who had no real training) and then he and I poured over them and made lists of books for them. He pursued and won grants for monies to add to various collections (science, biography, etc). He died in February and many friends donated to the library in his memory. The library board is talking about establishing a reading room in his memory, but I'm not holding my breath. He was the action guy on that board and now that he's gone, they're pretty slow. Our library is one of the original Andrew Carnegie buildings and has been needing repairs for a long time. He worked tirelessly for grants to make the repairs and keep it in good shape. I guess I don't need to say that he was a lifelong reader, too. Sue

Sue, what a wonderful tribute to your husband; sounds like a wonderful man. You must be missing him terribly. I hope they hurry up and follow through on naming a reading room after him.

---------------------------------------------------------

Why do I read?

I love words. I love what words bring, sometimes a learning challenge, something difficult made understandable. New information that broadens how I think or takes me to a place I've never visited. I am the author's companion through words.

I associate reading with a feeling of contentment, a feeling of leaving the everyday world for a few hours.....sometimes to experience the thrill of plot or characters or get caught up in an author's philosophical journey. I like reading someone's choice of words that help express what I think, but struggle to express.

I like reading how others have managed to live with the challenges I have....so I read for comfort, validation, company, therapy.

I read at my level for pleasure and at a more difficult level to feel challenged....and to feel rewarded when I meet the challenge. I love to learn new things....life would have too much sameness without learning. I read to meet people very different from me and people just like me.

I read to learn about the world in which we live, close to home and far away. I read to hear sentences no one else has ever spoken....remember the sentence we found last year about the tall hollyhock flowers along the fence at dusk that looked like women in colored dresses gathering to talk? I love that image.

More recently, I read specific books to share the experience with Senior Net Bookies.

Betty

Springcreekfarm, betty,

Springcreek, I second Betty. Your husband sounds like he was quite a guy in his way. You should be proud of what he accomplished. I too hope they name a reading room after him. That is the least that could be done to honor a man who did so much for the Library.

Betty, I guess you have summed up the reasons that most of us have for reading. The best reason I think you gave was a love for the written word. Hard to explain or describe. One has to have that passion in order to understand it. But, reading your post comes as close to explaining it as I have ever read.

Tiger Tom

Along with all most all the other posters I learned to read before I can remember doing it. I do remember sitting at the table asking what certain letters were on boxes or bottles on the table, then sounding them out. Since my sis was 4.6 years older than me she tells me she taught me to read and I suspect she did too. Our home was filled with books as all my parents and grandparents read a lot and we lived where winter kept us housebound a lot of the time so that was our recreation too. As an adult I read for all the reasons that are listed in the heading. Much of the reading nowdays is when I am searching for information on the web. That leads me to all kinds of exteranous reading I might never have done with out this computer.

For instance I have read a lot in order to take part in discussions in Senior Net Books and Literature. Many are things I would not have read again, such as the recent Beowulf discussion or that wonderful visit to The Ancient Mariner which was great.

I have eclectic taste and enjoy a great variety of books and authors.It is my need at the moment and what what is going on in my life that makes me pick up one book or another. GinnyAnn I know what you mean by light reading with happy endings being called for sometimes.Fr

Ginny I love books with happy endings also. I can't ever remember a time when I didn't have a book to read. When I was growing up I had a brother that was very sick and my parents spent alot of time with him. I guess I read as an escape. But I love all books.

GailieR,

I too was never without a book in my hand.

I was reading most of the time.

What is strange is the fact that my folks would always say "I don't know what to get you for a gift!" I never got a book for any occasion that called for a gift: Christmas, Birthdays, etc. Fact is, I never got a book as a gift until I was almost 50 and then one Christmas I got ten of them. Go figure.

Anyone else had that happen?

Tiger Tom

Tom, I did get one or two books for gifts, mostly from my Grandmother. Now when my daughters-in-law ask for hints for Christmas, I send them book titles. One of the girls actually buys them for me. When I give gifts, books are usually my first choice. Sue

I like/need to read before going to bed. So, when an electrical storm knocks out the electricity, I gather our oil lights and candles together to provide enough light to read. That way I unwind before sleeping.

Me, too, GinnyAnn. I have often read with oil lamps we keep for Hurricanes and other stormy nights. I also have a couple of those little book lights which use batteries for power. You attach them to the book and they work pretty well for night time reading when the electricity is off. Sue

Springcreekfarm,

My daughter gives me gift cards for Waldens and Barnes and Noble for the different gift days.

I don't give books because my family are not readers. Well, I must amend that. My oldest brother has books that he displays but never opens and my other brother reads books and magazines on Antiques as he deals in those. But for leisure reading, no one in my family does.

Tiger Tom

All,

I will bet that we all are good readers, quick readers too. I don't suppose any of us move our lips when we read. I believe that being able to read well is why we love to read.

When in high school as a sophmore I was in a State test for reading ability and comprehension. I finished second in the state. I tested out as having the ability and compreshension of a Senior in College.

I too can not remember a time that I couldn't read and read at several levels above my age.

Tiger Tom

When our youngest daughter got married, some wonderful friends gave them a gift certificate to WaldenBooks. What a GREAT idea!

Mary

p.s. The marriage didn't last, but she still has the books!

Since this new heading, I have been giving more thought to why I read - I just have always read and cannot imagine not reading - Then I thought why when I was a child did I read - at first in my thinking I checked off all the reasons I don't have for reading - I do not read for comfort or to escape and yes, at times for information but that is like reading the ingrediants on the back of a ceral box - and so what - but why do I read - why?

Slowly I Realized I like the thoughts - both the thoughts shared by the author often through characters in his story as well as, sorting my own thoughts as I contemplate - Sometimes it isn't what the characters say or how they say it but what they do that stirs my thoughts.

I like wonder - and most of what I read for me is filled with wonderment -

I like to read books that enlarge on or encourage or show characters engaged-in making beauty or their surrounding or behavior is enlarging on beauty -

I like to read a book that is a challange expanding my knowledge especially, if there is a new word I must look up or, a person in history or, a quote alluded to that I must research and learn about -

Reading offers me an opportunity to mold and reshape my concept of what I value and more, presents me with a wider and truer understanding of life, often stirring within me a strong emotional reaction that leads me to greater understanding; so that I not only just know something but feel it as well -

I read to live my life fully with added wisdom developed because I understand on a deeper level -

I read so that my imagination can fly to all sorts of fanciful pictures in my head -

I read for the adventure of it as if taking a quest journey into the unknown. Yes, to sum up I read for the advanture of what I will discover within the covers of the book and within myself as I'm carried into the wonderment the book offers.

As to how fast we read, there is probably a big variation, even though we are all pretty intelligent. Some of us process the words by sight and some by sound, according to how we learned or how our brains choose to process most information. I am a sound person because I am just that sort of person. (I am a musician and not very interested in art.) The limit on speed for sound processors is in the three hundred and something words per minute range somewhere, the top speed we can "hear" the words in our brain, while there is no real limit for sight processors except their own capacity to understand and store the information. I have known many folks who read much faster than I do, but I have no intentions of trying to change at this age. It did limit how much I could get through in one night while doing required reading in college, but as far as pleasure reading, the longer it takes me, the more I get for my money.

The librarian in my very small hometown was very receptive to having us be around and encouraged our reading. Personally, she never said to me "that book is too advanced" but rather just let me take it and make it what I could. Eventually, she allowed me to sit and mind the library desk when she would go down the street for a coffee break. She was the only employee, most of the time, and so was glad for volunteers.

Isak2002,

Lucky you. Too often I was denied a book or had one taken out of my hands because they were above my age or grade level and was told "You can't understand them." Never mind that I could prove I understood them. Rules were rules and that was that.

Tiger Tom

Your comments, Ben, on how we read reminded me of the days I taught a combination first and second grades in a rural school - a converted army barracks building - here in the San Joaquin Valley of California - migrant children from Oklahoma , Missouri and Texas, Portuguese children from the Azores Islands, several from Mexico, and a few from the local area. I had fairly small classes which are the best for having interaction with each other. Some of my little folks would just pick up a new word or phrase quickly simply from my saying them as I presented the new words verbally in context. Still others knew quickly as I wrote them on the chalkboard, and presented them verbally in context, and then there were a few who needed to have me say, sound, write on the chalkboard and present them in context and come to the chalkboard themselves and write and sound/say the words. Some needed to incorporate all the senses possible in the presentation. Now and then I would say "Taste the word" and we would carefully enunciate the words and /or phrasing together. They would think that was funny to "taste" a word, but after presenting the sounds of the various letters, especially, of a "tasteable" word the ability to continue with reading was easier for them and onward we could go. It was great to use poetry for this learning and fun to write our own poetry as a reading technique. With all the accents I had in my classroom our reading -aloud time was musical at times.

for answering my questions about librarians, it was very informative and I, like Tiger Tom, wonder how long I would last in that job! How tempting to open up the books and read a bit to see if that is the one you want to spend time with.

Do any of you watch Brian Lamb on C-Span? One of his questions to the writers he interviews is always WHERE DO YOU WRITE? Their answers are sometimes astonishing - which brings me to the question of where we read. Some of you like to read in bed, many of you when young with flashlights.

I can read anywhere, can you? With the TV blaring away as others are watching a program that holds very little interest for me, in a crowded airport, while in a grocery store waiting for my husband who, in his retirement, likes to shop and can spend 2-3 hours at it, at the doctor's office where you usually have to wait. Most times I have a paperback in my purse.

There were six girls in my family, two of us read voraciously, one occasionally and the other 3 read nothing. Figure that one out.

We were depression children and our parents split, lost their home and we girls were sent to a Christian orphanage - one you could not be adopted from. Five miserable years of it and I read and I read and I read. Later when the orphanage collapsed, we were sent to various relatives' home and fortunately I could walk to our blessed Andrew Carnegie library!! And I gave thanks to him many times over and read a couple of biographies of the man, which may have contributed to my love of biographies and nonfiction; although I love all kinds of books.

Anything between covers holds something for me to learn. All of your posts are fascinating to read, aren't we fortunate to have found Seniornet Books & Literature!

Ella,

I guess you have given us another reason to be in our header with the other reasons to read:

Salvation. Not, perhaps in the religious sense, although that too would fit, but salvation of the person. I guess books give us and gave us another world to inhabit when the one we live(d) in was, or is, too hard to bear.

I know that books did that for me when I was young although I certainly didn't have it as hard as you and others in this discussion have had.

Tiger Tom

I read at different speeds, quickly for light fiction, more slowly for non-fiction and how-to manuals. When I was teaching children to read, I always talked about different speeds for different types of books.

I read whatever I wanted and no one objected. I let my sons read things that other mothers were horrified about. However, all 3 of my sons are voracious readers, too. Most of the horrified mothers had children who didn't read for pleasure. I think if children are to develop a love of reading, they must be surrounded by books and by adults who are reading them. Sue

Nice point, Sue. I had never stopped to notice but it's true, some light fiction I can breeze through but non-fiction that I really want to absorb takes a bit longer.

I had thought, at one time, many years ago, of taking a speed-reading course. But the more I thought about it, the less appealing it sounded. I love being able to stop and roll a few thoughts/words/phrases/whatever around in my head a while before moving on. Has anyone here ever studied speed-reading?

Diane, I've had demonstration lessons for speed reading but never actually took a course. These lessons were usually in a University classes for Teaching Methods for Reading. The professors were trying to make a point which escapes me now. They had a machine, I think called a tachistascope, which flashed phrases overhead in increasingly longer phrases and shorter periods of time. I never felt the need to learn to speed read as I do like to savor words and phrases, even when I'm reading quickly to find out what will happen next. Sue

Have you ever read books that had passages that just HAD to be read aloud and shared? I nearly drove John crazy while I was reading Pat Conroy's "The Great Santini" and "The Lords of Discipline". The prose almost forced you to read it aloud.

Mary

Mary - oh, yes! My Del is not a reader (I guess opposites really do attract!). When I started reading Helene Hanff's books I just couldn't stand to keep them to myself and read them aloud. Although Del kind of resisted at first, he really came to enjoy those sessions. The two of us actually went through all her books. Most recently I read "A Summer in Province" and am itching to read it aloud also. How CAN anyone not read - especially our own spouses? Funny.

When something tickles my funnybone (A Summer in Province did), I feel compelled to read it aloud. Fortunately my Bob was a reader, too, and didn't object. He didn't choose to read much aloud to me, though. When he did read aloud, it was usually directions I was finding difficult (as in a how-to manual). Sue

Well, I guess most husbands dont exactly enjoy their wife reading every thing outloud to them. Mine sure didnt, though when I had a really funny book he enjoyed what I read. I loved to share and my daughter and I do it to this day when we are in the same house and reading, My kids caught that from me and use to come out of their room to read me something they thought I didnt know or would be interested in or that intensly interested them and they wanted to share it with us. My husband did it too, but with the newspaper. fr

I was just thinking that in my house it was very companionable to be all reading in the evening. My husband wasnt a reader of fiction but he always had business magazines that he poured over and his Architectural Digests were saved. I must have had a ton of them. So we might add that to the heading though I guess families now days have t.v. to share rather than each reading their own thing.fr

My worst reading aloud fault is reading posts from Seniornet to Ms. E while she is trying to read the morning paper. But some of this stuff just has to be shared.

John is a voracious reader - it wasn't that he didn't enjoy the parts I read - it was just that he wanted to read the book when I was finished and he didn't want me to spoil the pleasure for him. We got lots of laughs out of it.

Mary

You know, it's not only all of the above. Let me see if I can articulate my thoughts. Reading sort of boosts my faith in the human mind. When I read a good book (and by that I don't mean the classics or anything near - just one that I think is well written and which holds my interest), I am always amazed at the accomplishments of the writer - at how his or her mind works - at how he or she can create so cleverly. You can see the places (The Sea, The Sea) and you feel like you know the characters. As I've said in other posts - I am in awe of a good writer. I don't even know what good writing is. Who said that about art (or was it pornography) "I don't know what it is but I know it when I see it." So books make me feel better about being human - does that make sense? (By the way, so does reading posts on Seniornet.)

To me, the whole definition of a good writer, like a good composer, is one who has something good to share and does it so well, that he disappears during the reading or listening.

All,

I hate to have someone read to me. I want the pleasure of reading whatever myself. I know, that isn't hoyle but that is the way I am.

My wife and I were once visiting some friends. My wife spotted something a Newspaper that was on the Coffee Table, she started to read it to me and I stopped her. The woman of the couple we were visiting said: Don't you like your wife to read to you? My husband loves to have me read to him." Before I could answer her husband said: "I hate it"

Guess he didn't want to hurt his wife by asking to stop something that she enjoyed doing although he hated having her read to him. He just blurted out the fact that he did hate having her read to him.

Takes all kinds.

Tiger Tom

course in that and got to be able to read VERY fast, but that was the kind of reading I did in order to study and get through a textbook, and when I read newspapers or a news magazine or a textbook, I still speed read. You can get the gist of something very quickly in those instances and it saves a lot of time. During the course it was kind of fun to keep challenging myself also to read faster and faster and still be able to comprehend what I was reading. For pleasure I like to read slowly and savor the words the writer has picked and the way they are structured, and I love to use the dictionary while I'm reading if there's a new word to grasp hold of. Reading for pleasure is just completely different than reading for study or to gather information. Besides, textbooks and journalists are not known to be great writers, so getting through them FAST is an advantage, I think. LOL

Reading for us usually includes maps. In fiction, we love it when the author uses real places, and we can follow along in the atlas or on the road map. And, of course, in nonfiction, the same is true. Frequently the author will have maps mounted in the text, but the atlas is always a great resource, too.

Mary

All,

Harry Golden, Publisher of the "Carolina Israelite" said he couldn't read without a Pencil in his hand.

Anyone like that?

I HATE to find a book that has writing in the margins or is underlined to death. Ruins the book for me.

One of the reasons I am wary about buying used books unless I can page through them first and at Library sales one doesn't have time for that because if one dwadles all of the good books will be snapped up.

Tiger Tom

We LOVED Harry Golden and subscribed to the Carolina Israelite for years.

I, too, always have a pencil or pen nearby when I read. But mainly, I use it for correcting the ubiquitous typographical or purely ignorant mistakes in books - even library books (what heresy!). Actually, especially in library books. I hate the thought of somebody else reading a book with misspelled or incorrect words and thinking the error is correct simply because it is printed in a book.

Mary

It all depends on the book. If it's one I'm using strictly for learning something and it's mine, yup, I mark it all up. Sometimes even use different colors for different readings, so I can see when I go back to read it again what struck me at various times. I have a few books like that which have made a huge difference in my life, and when I go back and browse through them I can see how far I've progressed in what I was trying to learn. But if it's a book to keep on my shelves permanently, or a book that belongs to someone else, no way would I mark it up. But I do keep the little post-its in books where I know I want to go over something again or write something down, or share with a friend. Whatever did we do before we had those cute little post-it notes? I can't remember life without them! LOL

Mary, have you noticed how prevalent spelling errors are these days? In books, in newspapers, in magazines, even in an expensive ad. I saw one just the other day in a huge double-page ad that my eyes just couldn't believe. For the amount of $$$$ an ad like that costs you would think they could at least spell something right! I have a botanical book where they have even identified several plants all wrong, and yes, I marked those up but good.

I think a lot of the spelling errors are really grammatical errors. It seems that everyone uses a spell checker these days and many words are spelled correctly, but with the wrong meaning (there, their, sun/son, etc). You'd think the editor would catch these mistakes. Sports writers are particularly bad with this. Sue

Recently I was reading a Harlequin romance. There is a section that has a word I can't find in my Webster's Dictionary or on the AOL dictionary and the AOL spell check doesn't find it either. What do you think? This is a story of a man and woman who are getting acquainted and the man's middle name is Orange. The woman speaks:

"Hmm. You don't like 'Orange'?"

He shot her a look -- the kind of look that had been emergolating teasers since the beginning of time. "The name sounds either New Age or hokey to me, but actually, it's neither. Orange is a plain old-fashioned western name. Been passed down in the family for generations."

What in the world does emergolating mean?

Microsoft Word suggested embrocating (putting lotion on) and Google brought up emigration.

This is not simply a grammatical error that is so prevelant, as SPRING CREEK FARM points out.

good word to me, but I think the author made it up, like Lewis Carroll (sp?) did when he came up with the word "chortle" sort of a combination chuckle/snort, and we all know that sound. So I would think in the context it was used there the word is a combination of emerge and ruminating???? (brain not working right now!). HELP ME! But whether a writer of a Harlequin romance has the right to come up with a new word would be another discussion altogether(just teasing!). But truly, it sounds like a good word. I think I'll try and use it in a sentence the next time I'm talking just to see if anyone stops and asks me what the heck I am talking about. Love to do things like that to see if anyone is paying attention. LOL.

I think it's an invented word, also.

He shot her a look -- the kind of look that had been emergolating(sending out or producing?) teasers since the beginning of time.

MountainGal: let us know the results when you throw emergolating into a conversation. I'll bet most will let it go rather than ask what it means. Sue

It's a combination of emerge and percolate--you know, that stuff that us old people with Alzheimers do when we can't remember something and are searching for a particular word; we sit there and percolate in agitation until it finally emerges! Yup, that's what I just did. Great word! I like it!

emergolating....

This sounds like something to ask Anu at http://www.wordsmith.org . Do y'all subscribe to "A Word A Day" from Wordsmith. It's great fun, and free for the asking. Check it out.

Mary

Thanks, Mary, I just subscribed!

I am a speed reader part of an educational experiment. I took to it like a duck to water and can read a light novel in an hour. The problem is that I cant read every word unless I read it out loud in my head. Speed reading is brilliant for study and reading forms finding grocery specials quickly in the supermarket and comparing prices very quickly. I did speed reading classes for three years. It has ruined my recreational reading as I was already quite a fast reader when I began the course.

Carolyn

I never wanted to take a class in speed reading but am a fairly fast reader. My daughter is a very fast reader but her high school social studies class were taking some kind of speed reading class in her freshman year and it turned out from what I could tell she wasnt reading everything on a page at all..she was scanning it. She reads books that way and any part she doesnt find interesting she scans till she comes across the thread she is looking for. Still she passed Reading Comprehension with high marks so I guess it is ok. She finds it very usful in business she says. I would not like that. I too will skip stuff sometimes but mostly I read everything in a book. I dont think it is a fair judge of a book to skip all descriptive passages for the meaty narrative. fr

I agree, Faith. I will occasionally skip parts that are not interesting, but for most reading I like to savor the words and usually read every word. One thing I haven't learned to do is put down a book that doesn't meet my expectations. I will read it until the end, boring or whatever. I keep hoping it'll get better. Sue

Sue yooou sound like me. I have read some things I really didnt like much but I just kept reading until I finished the book. I often have had the experience of being half way through what I consider a boring or uninteresting story when I get hooked and wind up liking what ever it is and am very glad I persisted. The only book I threw down in disgust was Ulyses by James Joyce. faith

I must admit that I can put down a book and leave it unfinished. Much of my reading is done for pure pleasure and if either the plot or the writing doesn't "catch" me in a reasonable length of time, I can put the book aside.

One reading quirk I do have is when I discover a new author, who has written a number of books (usually mysteries), I try to read his/her books in the order in which they were written. And we do patronize our very good local used book store.

Mary

MARY: I never thought of reading all the books of an author new to me in the order they were written. I will ponder that. I do try to read a series in the right order if I happen first about one of the middle books in a series. If not all are published, I try to wait until I have them all before starting them. I read romances mostly. Some have a mystery component.

I have put down very few books because I didn't like them. Probably just a handful. I just finished one written in 1991 by a favorite author and I knew from almost the end of the first chapter that it was a BIG disappointment. I still had to read it to the end.

Marjorie

Faith, now that you mention it, I did give up on Joyce's Ulysses. It was just beyond me. I couldn't make sense of the stream of consciousness (I think that was the style).

Mary and Marjorie: I do try to read an author's works in the order of publishing if I like the first one I try. When I reread favorites, I almost always follow this pattern, unless there is one I like less than the others. Sue

I just recently discovered these wonderful book discussion groups and feel like I am visiting friends. I have loved to read for as long as I can remember and always have books nearby wherever I am. If there are no books around, I begin to experience withdrawal symptoms. That is not a pretty sight! I read quickly but am not a speed reader. Like some of you I need to savor the words and sometimes re-read special passages. My daughter is a speed reader and can gulp down a book a day sometimes.

My children and most of the grandchildren are book lovers.....I started reading to them as babies and the library was a familiar place to them at a very young age. Books are always first choice as gifts for them. When the grandchildren were young and visited often I would regularly bring home 20 books at a time from the library for them to have when they came to my house. The bookshelf was the first place they headed when they walked in the door.

I read for pleasure, sometimes for escape, information, to "visit" new places and just for the pure joy of reading. It's great to meet so many nice people who share this passion.

Morningjoy,

Welcome to our discussion. Feel free to bring up any subject that you want about books or reading.

I really like your Handle.

Tiger Tom

I also like to savor words. In fact in the book I am currently reading, I have placed a Post-It as a marker for a phrase that said something I have thought. It goes
Up ahead was a new development of tract mansions--obscenely big houses on three-acre lots, eating up prime farmland... Rebecca York.

Oh, I love that quote, GinnyAnn. Lately around here it seems that small families are building these "obscenely big houses on three-acre lots, eating up prime farmland". Just think of the waste of building materials, space, and the amount of money needed for mortgages, as well as destruction of animal habitat and farmland. I wonder if other people find it obscene? Sue

Springcreekfarm,

Yes, I too find it obscene. Also find it oneupmanship. People saying that they can build a house and a bigger house than someone else you cannot even afford a shack.

I guess it is part of the selfishness of today's world.

Tiger Tom

I join you in your outrage at what I've also sometimes heard referred to as "starter castles" or "castlettes" - perfect, aye? I can't imagine people who really want to have all that upkeep all the time. Whatever happened to simple front porches and yards where kids can swing and play. Pity.

I've been away for awhile. Missed all of you. Such lively discussions. Speaking of speed reading, it's not for me. I think you would miss alot. I like to savor every word. I don't think I'm a slow reader, but I like to take my time with a book. Have you ever read a book and hated to see it end?

I sometimes read aloud to my husband, he isn't a reader. I don't know if he appreciates it, but some things just have to be shared. Have a good week-end everyone.

Aww come on folks remember when we were young and our parents thought we were putting on airs because we purchased homes with more than one bathroom or more than two bedrooms (one for the parents and one for all the kids) and my glory 'TWO' living rooms - that was horrible - we were breaking the family unit and buying up all that living room furniture for what - to show off.

You have to be with these young families who are the sons and daughters we wanted to be even more successful and better educated than we were - they look with such fondness in their eyes as they imagine 'his' office - and of course a room for each of the kids - and the playroom upstairs that will be fitted with computers for the children when they are a bit older - and the playroom must be large enough so they can have their friend over, since it isn't safe to let them go any place any longer. And therefore the children's bedrooms must be large enough for a second bed or trundle or sleeping bags so their friends can stay over night.

And of course the formal living which does not have to be large since we only use it on holidays but I have my mother's armour or sideboard or antique Louise XVI chair that must have that special place and we all had a formal living room when we grew up - and than of course the den where we all gather to watch TV and the big enough kitchen since we both cook now - and a laundry area large enough that I can iron there without carting the ironing out into the den and our bedroom must be large enough that we can get away for some private time while the kids are watching cartoons and wouldn't it be so great If I could have a room also - a room for my sewing or my computer or just a room of my own -

Now that we are out of breath with all that we have just built a 4500 square foot house that becomes an investment as well. Real Estate has outstripped the market in most areas as the biggest investment for most young families and in addition the interest on the mortgage is a tax deduction.

Now a 4500 sq ft home looks dinky on a small lot, although in some areas the families prefer a small lot to all that up-keep of land but in some areas they dream of kids tumbling in the piles of racked autumn leaves and swings under a tree that may not be large enough for that swing till the kids are teenages but the dream is there - on and on. Obscene ahhh give 'em a break - they are simply building the dreams they grew up seeing in the magazines and reading about by folks like Virgina Woolf and hearing the parents either dream or complain about the children underfoot or the ironing in the living room or not having a place to go to escape when the cartoons took over the den or the football game took over or what ever was our generation's complaint that we were sure if the house was bigger we would not have the problem.

They go where the jobs are and most of the towns where the jobs are do not have vacant houses sitting row on row in place of these large 4500 sq ft houses - even though birth rate is down we are still a growing nation.

In addition lets look at ourselves - how many of us are either a single or a double still living in our 3 or 4 bedroom 2100 sq ft houses because the kids may visit twice a year and it's nice to have the room for them or we have all this furniture that we hate to get rid of or it is so close to everything that is convienent or all our friends are here - but our 2100 sq feet is sure more space than we need and for many of us larger than the 1400 sq feet one bathroom homes of our parents.

"in our 3 or 4 bedroom 2100 sq ft houses because the kids may visit twice a year and it's nice to have the room for them or we have all this furniture that we hate to get rid of or it is so close to everything that is convenient"

Boy, Barbara, you sure nailed us to a "T", except we still don't have room for all our kids and grands when they all come to visit at the same time. But it was our first house that was 1700 sq. ft., with 1 1/2 baths, where we raised our four daughters. And now we're talking about adding a screened-in porch on our deck. Our daughters are shaking their heads in disbelief.

Such is life! Mary

p.s. On topic, I read mostly for sheer pleasure, so there's no desire for speed reading here. I do some reading for learning and information-gathering, but in between that, I'll frequently get in a couple of mysteries.

All,

Looking back I cannot believe that my family: Mother, Father, and three boys managed with ONE Bathroom. House was average for our income level but had only One (1) Bathroom. Of course, everyone only had one bathroom. How did we do it?

Our present house has three, no waiting.

Tiger Tom

All,

Most of us know why we read.

As we grow older do we still have the WILL to read?

I love books and just about everything else that has print on it.

However, I have a stack of books that I have bought in the past year or so that are unread. I also have a stack of magazines some, going back a year, that are unread. I have been cutting down on my magazine subscriptions letting them lapse as they come due for renewal. Some I will keep, but very few.

I just cannot seem to get started reading that way I used to do. I have do have some excuse: My eyes have damned near everything wrong with them that is possible: Cataracts, Gloucoma, Macular Degeneration and I am Diabetic. Still, I can see fairly well.

I keep buying books. I cannot seem to stop that.

My reading has almost come to a stop.

Anyone else having the same problem about the will to read?

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom

Quite the opposite, thanks to Book Discussions!

I used to read everything that came into my path, but, with distractions, got out of the habit over the years.

Since being introduced to Book Discussions and it's great leaders, I have started up again and won't stop until I can't see.

I had to make myself stick to a routine to get through a book. It's too easy to let slide, so, I did this:

Because of fatigue and eye problems, I take the first of every hour to lie down, with a book and read 10 pages. By that time, I am ready to have a small nap. This does me wonders and I get through a book without having to read a lot at a time to catch up.

BTW, Happy Mother's Day to all the Mom's!

Tom -

John and I both seem to read in cycles. We'll always have a book "going", but sometimes just reading a page or two at a time, and taking forever to read a tight mystery. Then that spell will finally get over, and we'll be reading like they were going to quit printing books unless we read voraciously.

I was very distressed the first time it happened to me - and I went about a year or more with almost no sustained reading. But it finally passed. This is happening occasionally to our daughters now two.

You're right about most people having only one bathroom - we had the two of us and our four daughters (very close together in age) with our 1 1/2 baths. Out of self-preservation, we policed ourselves relatively well.

Mary

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY to everyone.

I guess I was fortunate. The house I lived in the longest (age 9 to 18) and remember the best had 2 baths when my parents bought it. I remember it seemed strange to me at the time that my father had a closet made into a half bath for me and my brother. The house was a 2 story house and there was a bathroom downstairs and one upstairs. I assume there was a tub downstairs but don't remember that bathroom very well. This house was located in the city of Chicago.

I am fortunate, TIGER TOM, so far the only one of the things you mention that is affecting your eyesight has been a problem for me. I had cataract surgery on both eyes in 1995. Since then, knock wood, my eyes have been great. [I just had my annual eye checkup Friday and passed with flying colors.] I have to watch for diabetes because my father and his parents were diabetic. Do you "read" books on tape at all?

I find the kind of reading I am doing is changing somewhat. I have always read a lot of fiction but over the years the "category" of the fiction changes. Now I read a lot of romances with a little suspense thrown in from time to time. Some days I want to read something very light and quick and other days I want something with more "meat" to it. I have lots and lots and lots of books waiting to be read.

I usually have more than one book that I am reading at any one time. One is a very simple story in a small book that I can carry with me to have something to read while I am waiting -- waiting for the doctor, waiting at a restaurant, whatever. Then there is a book to read before I fall asleep (usually NOT a very suspenseful one). And, frequently, another one by my chair in the family room.

I have decided not to worry that I am not reading "great" literature. I read to relax. That is just fine. I argue in my head with the characters sometimes. Then I laugh at myself.

Marjorie

I, also, have stacks of unread books just waiting to be read, but they are books that I think I should read, mostly non-fiction about something I have had an interest in at one time or another. But like Marjorie, I read constantly, everyday, and it is usually light fiction--best sellers, romance novels, mysteries, even children's literature.

I did have a terrible habit of keeping every magazine I ever bought, but I am trying to break that by recycling them to a group that provides reading materials for poor families or simply by throwing them away each week when the trash is picked up.

I am thankful that my eyesight is still quite good (although I have been nearsighted all of my life). I remember when my Grandmother had to start reading books in large print and using a magnifying glass. It got to be heartbreaking for her. Sue

I find myself like Tom buying everything I like, but not getting as much read as I want. I have cut way down on the magazines that I get. Just not much interest in them. I think the why of reading has to do with an inner eye that measures these imaginary worlds against the one I live in. Sometimes I would rather be there, but often I would hate it there and renew my passion for where I live. The ocean is a constant companion that never asks that much and provides me with comfort and joy

TV - first one in '95 after more than 30 years without, and now marriage - first one in more than 30 years, have cut way down on my reading. My wife reads more than I do. I love to work with my hands, which I can do in front of TV or while riding a bus, where I can't read. Now that I don't work them into severe pain at work, I can use my hands more at home, so I do.

In the past few months, I have been "practicing" not turning on the TV unless I know there is something really good to watch - and instead, have been reading, reading, reading - just scratching the surface of all the good suggestions gleaned in various of the discussions on BOOKS on SN. What a treat! I have also enjoyed the quiet enormously . Isak

isak2002 - oh yes - I need to do that again - thanks for the reminder - it is so easy to put that TV on as background and than keep it on - I remember the first time I unplugged the TV and for the first few nights it was terrible - I actually sat on my hands and wouldn't move till I was content to do something other than watch the TV - I even remember the wonder of looking at everything about a month after having turned off the TV - the trees looked greener and everything was clear and bright -

Although I must say I have seen most of Dinotomia if I spelled it correctly - I often looked at the wonderfully illustrated book without reading the story and I was so delighted to know the story and I thought Disney really did the beautiful illustrated book proud. I loved the clothes and would love to have a coat like the kings to wear in winter and the mother's dresses - and the voice and diction of the animal lizard friend - I do not remember his/her name - but the voice was so wonderful to hear - I wonder if it is on tape or DVD available to rent - I would love my grandboys to see it and since they do not have the TV on during the school week I bet they missed it.

Wasn't it nice sleeping without the AC - seems the heat is back again tomorrow though. That norther brought in something and my allergies are in a mess today -

Izak, Barbara,

I don't turn the T.V. on for anything these days.

Had turned it on for the weather but now I just stick my head out of the window. Just as accurate.

Given the garbage the comes out of the Tube I don't miss it.

Tiger Tom

Television usually puts me to sleep. The news is so depressing and most of the movies and shows are not worth watching. I would much rather curl up with a good book. Since we moved out of the city I enjoy walks in the evening. The air is so fresh and I enjoy the wild flowers and wild life. We saw a deer last evening and wild turkeys.

Gaillie: I am so feed up with talking heads. A year or more ago I got turned off all my news programs and dont watch anymore. I dont take a newspaper either as they stacked up and I didnt read anything much. Now when Sept. 11 happened my neighbor saw me go out to water and called to me to put the news on and I saw that and watched off and on for a few days..then I tapered down again. I do watch a movie every day just about and I watch the history channel but not that one that only has WWII on it. I watch documentaries on pbs and discovery also. Thats about it except for Home and Garden shows. I dont read much anymore unless its on the computer or I am in a good book discussion etc. I am doing more and more writing down of family memories, records etc. And love doing that. faith

All,

We may have another reason for some of us to read:

It is Bloody Cold. There are some among us who are shivering and have the heat turned on or maybe a warm fire burning. That is just the time for a good book and something hot to drink and maybe wrapped up in a comforter.

Still, around here (Far Western Washington State) in the early hours when I walk the Dog (5:30 - 6:00 A.M.) there is frost on the lawn and ice on the windshield of my truck. Days rarely get above mid 50's. Have broke 60 degress about six times this year, so far. Great reading weather.

How are things in your area?

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom

Middle of Canada reporting!

Going down to 0 tonight. Eyes may be frozen shut and can't read. LOL

Even way down here, it's "cold" - at least for us. It's midMay, and all week we're due to have highs in the 60s and lows around 40 (even into the 30s in the higher elevations). Oh, well, we've already had days in the 90s, too.

Spring in Tennessee is never boring! And anytime is a good time to read. We're going camping this weekend, and I plan to spend the whole time reading and talking (while knitting). The others may do something rash like hike or ride bikes, but I'll tend to the campsite.

BTW, we've just found a new mystery writer, Dana Stabenow. Her protagonist, Kate Shugac, is a native Alaskan, and the stories are set in what we take to be the Wrangel-St. Elias area. Good yarns. We're busily getting all we can from the used book store.

Incidentally, when we travel in the car, in order to avoid carrying way too many books, we're always on the lookout for used book stores and "library sales". Great places to restock.

Mary

All,

On T.V. tonight there was a brief item on the cause of the unusual weather so many of us are experiencing: Warming of the Indian Ocean is partly to blame and Global Warming plays a part too.

Shouldn't be too surprising.

BTW, if you are curious as to what I look like my Photo's are now in the family album in the Galleries section. Go to T then T2 look for the guy with the initials T T

Tiger Tom

Central Florida and coastal are hot hot hot.. But that is time to read for us since we are inside a bit from the heat.. Winter is our get out and do things weather.

Stephanie,

Willing to trade a little of your Hot for some of our cold and wet.

Tiger Tom

Tigar Tom you should check into our discussion on weather changes in Curious Minds. We have a lively discussion going on weather patterns, etc. fr

Faithr,

Will try.

Tiger Tom

All,

Hello out there.

I know that this is a very general subject for discussion but don't let that stop you from posting or bringing up any subject you may want to discuss hopefully concerning books or reading but it doesn't absolutely have to.

Let us hear from you.

Tiger Tom

Hi Tigertom. well as I already said the reasons why I read I will add this. I read to learn. This week I have been trying to learn more of the intricacies of my computer so it requires a great deal of reading. On screen and in companion text books. The last book I read for fun and just the joy of it was The Bonesetters Daughter by Amy Tan. I loved it. I always learn from her too about the Chinese in California as well as the stories she tells of her relatives in the old country before immigrating to US. fr

I also read to learn, Faith, but not as often as I should. One place I read to learn is on the Web. I use Google.com when I want to learn something I've heard about but am not familiar with. I also read my daily newspaper from cover to cover to learn what's going on in the world.

One book that I bought a long time ago and mean to read is Twila Slesnick's IRAs, 401 (k)s & Other Retirement Plans: Taking Your Money Out. It's been sitting here because I am having problems working up an interest in it. I'd better get cracking though as I only have 6 1/2 years left before I have to deal with my IRAs. I listen to National Public Radio's "Sound Money" on Saturdays. This book is one of their recommendations. Sue

I don't know how I would get along without reading. I hope I never have to find out. If I couldn't read, I wouldn't be able to have the fun I have in SeniorNet. All the different people I get to meet because I can read their posts. WOW!

All,

Thank you for your posts. I had thought that this discussion might have been abandoned by you all.

Any Lurkers out there who might want to post?

Tiger Tom

Boy,

It is lonely in here.

I think I will go in a corner, suck my thumb and sulk.

Anyone out there?

Tiger Tom

I'm here, Tom, and I've been reading--but also watching the WNBA games this weekend, last night, and tonight. After the WNBA games, I've tuned in to the NBA playoffs. I have been multi-tasking (as my sons tell me) during the games by having snacks and reading magazines and catalogs during the times out.

I hope other readers continue visiting this discussion. I've been enjoying the ideas of other readers. Sue

Sue,

Happy to hear from someone. I was beginning to hear echo's in this place.

I am not a Basketball fan. Never have been. Don't know why but it just hasn't interested me.

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom: You ought to give women's basketball a try. It's a different ballgame (in every sense of the word) - not like the men's, either college or professional.

And, Thanks, Sue - I hadn't realized the WNBA had started up and was on TV. We have to keep up with our Lady Vols alumnae.

Mary

I'm not usually a basketball fan, but have been watching the Lakers and Kings games. A real nail bitter.

Guess I'm Too Short

to be interested in basketball. I'd only cry if I watched all those tall people!! LOL

All,

With scores in the 100's it seems that it is just a matter of who gets the ball first. Then it is back and forth for the whole game. I guess I just don't understand the nuances of the game.

Tiger Tom

Mildred Wirt Benson, the author of Nancy Drew Mysteries, died yesterday in Toledo, Ohio. She was 96 years young

Mary, there will be a WNBA game on tomorrow night--ESPN, I think. I subscribe to the summer season on DirectTV so I see games other than the 3 which are broadcast on national TV.

You are right, WNBA is much better than NBA. The women don't have the height (although some are over 6' and there is one 7 footer) so they don't just run up and down the court and jam it in. They rely on passing, dribbling, and most of all team work. In 6 years there have been very few prima donnas. Today I went to 6th grade graduation at my old school. Three of my former students said that when they finish college they want to play in the WNBA. I'd love to see them do it. These professional women basketball players have become role models to young women everywhere.

I saw GinnyAnn's post about Mildred Wirt Benson in the Library. I posted some additional information there, also. If you are interested in the "Carolyn Keene" who wrote 30 of the original Nancy Drew mysteries, you can probably find more information at the NPR web site. Sue

Basketball is a big fat bore. They play a whole season and then about 90% of the teams make the playoffs. They should just start with the playoffs and get it over with.

Bibliophile, you must be talking about the NBA which is men's basketball--quite different from the WNBA which features highly talented, smart, athletic women. It's a whole different ballgame. Sue

I've been reading longer than I can remember, everything and anything I can get my hands on. I can't afford to buy books and can't get to the library, so scour what's available on the web. At the moment I'm reading online My Antonia by Willa Cather, having just finished The Mill on the Floss and Daniel Deronda by George Eliot. I've also started The Man Who was Thursday by G.K.Chesterton and read a good deal of poetry on the web, too, by amateur and published poets.

I do a lot of searches on the web, so read articles about many various different things. This morning I found one about Chinese computering. This search was stimulated by the Story of Civilization discussion. I also do art and music searches for the electronic magazines I publish; have learned a great deal about art history because of that and much about various writers, artists and musicians and their work, contemporary and not. Recently because of a search of hotels in Paris, I came across the Sophie Germain Hotel and learned that Sophie Germain was a mathematician and scientist in the mid-18th century, a brilliant woman who had to pose as a man because math and science done by women was not acceptable at that time.

Ginga posed a question quite a while ago about why people write. I write because I have to, and have written about as long as I've been reading. Reading and computer searches satisfy a kind of curiosity in me. Writing fiction as I do puts me in a different place and satisfies me more than anything else I know. I'm working on the 23rd chapter of my 12th novel right now.

Mal

Malryn: I have 2 questions for you.

1. When you are reading a book, such as My Antonia, on-line, do you print it out, or are you able to bookmark your place? This is something I have never tried.

2. Do you ever visit the Book Exchange here at SeniorNet? Books are offered there free except for the postage which you return to the previous owner. I've found some gems that way without going to my favorite used book store which is 65 miles away. Sue

Sue:

I bookmark my place. It's easy to do in both Netscape and MSIE. "Bookmark" appears to the left of the "Location" or URL-Keyword area in Netscape. Click "Bookmarks". Click "Add Bookmark", and the web page will be saved. There's a similar system in MSIE called "Favorites".

Yes, I've been to the Book Exchange in the Books and Lit folder in SeniorNet and have "bought" a few books that way.

Mal

Mal, where do you find your books on line? Can you share the url, please?

Thanks, Mary

Mary, here's a very good site. There are others. I'll try to post a couple more links soon.

Great Literature Online

Thanks a bunch, Mal

Mary

Mal we have "friends of the library" who pick up returns from housebound people and select books for them after discussion. Do you not have anything like this. I count my blessings again today that I am able to get to the library because I cannot afford books myself. I had a little windfall last week and spent it on the Grapes of Wrath so I could join in the discussion and make pencil notes as I read. Normally I try to borrow the books it does not always work out! They tried to close our local library as its not as patronised as some. Most of the readers are elderly as this is the nature of my neighbourhood we had a petition and they kept it! The people come on their walkers and their mobility scooters to get their books they would find it difficult to go to the downtown branch of our library service. On saying this I have four library branches within 10 mins drive from me but if you cant drive or are too feeble to walk you can't get to any of them.

Carolyn

All,

What we do without Libraries?

I have quite a collection of books but I still go to the Library every week to see what they have that is new.

The Library used to be a haven for me.

Tiger Tom

The library is still a haven for me, Tom. I went to the library on Wednesday, checked out 6 hardbacks and a dozen paperbacks. My librarians are also personal friends and they start looking for books they've read that they think I might like. Of course, it helps that my husband was on the Library Board for 20 years and Treasurer for 15. He paid their salaries and went to the City Commission to help them get raises.

So I've got a lot of reading to do in the next 2 weeks! Sue

Sue,

It does help to have friends in high places.

Just kidding.

Hope your eyes hold out better than mine.

Tiger Tom

When I was young, I, too, loved to read. Anyone here remember the "Scholastic Book Club"...which provided school children an opportunity to buy books. It was great, and my parents were always willing to let me buy the books. As an adult, though I do like watching movies and TV, I like the opportunity to create my own mental images of what characters and locations look like. Very often I have been disappointed in a movie version of stories I have loved. If I really like a book, I will usually NOT watch the movie version, as a matter of principal. I rarely like it as well. The only genre I prefer to watch than read is Science Fiction. For some reason, I cannot seem to enjoy a written sci fi story as much as a filmed. My husband cannot understand why I rarely will part with a book, especially one I don't plan to read again. I told him it would be like asking him to part with any of his CDs, even the ones he does ot listen to anymore. I like the comfort of my books being there, like old friends.

Momabear I agree with you about having books being a comfort. But, as my library/office gets more crowded, I am learning to part with some books. The Book Exchange helps me get new to me books and helps me find room on my shelves for the new ones. lol

GinnyAnn,

Friends of Library sales lets me get rid of some Paperbacks that I have.

However, it also lets me buy new (for me) books.

As long as I can still move sideway's in my Room and the space under the Bed isn't quite filled I have lots of room for more books.

If I must have an addiction books are as good as any and better than most.

Tiger Tom

Our library has a book sale once a month. I usually go and stock up. Paperback sell for .25 and hard cover for .50. Some of the books are fairly new. It's fun shopping. You can buy a bag of books for $1.00 and find lots of good stuff in them.

My favorite Sunday pastime is spending a leisurely afternoon reading the Sunday paper cover to cover. Do you have the newspaper habit, too? I read the local daily paper and also a small weekly, but especially enjoy taking time to read the extended Sunday edition. Sue

Sue,

I read our Sunday paper in the Morning with my coffee.

Of course, ours is not as large as most big city Sunday Papers. But it will do.

Tiger Tom

We read the newspaper faithfully when we're at home - and love to read other local papers when we travel. That's one of the things I don't like about camping....nobody delivers a paper to our doorstep in the morning. At our last Elderhostel, whoever was the earliest walker went to where there newspaper boxes and bought one of each of the papers available. We all fought over who got the funnies first (well, not really). We decided that we all knew people who didn't read the comic pages, and we weren't too sure that those people could be trusted.

Mary

Zwyram,

Not read the Comics? How do they keep up on current events?

Tiger Tom

One of our favorite and regular things to do is go out to breakfast with a stack of newspapers...on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays the local paper comes, in addition to the daily paper, and on Thursdays the nifty little throwaway comes - the one that really reports on things as they are and it gets pretty lively at times. Ahhh, someone else to cook and clean up after, plenty of reading material, and my favorite person (my husband) to comment with. Sometimes I think back to all those working years and never realized how good it would be one day.

Re: Not reading the comics (gasp!!)

It's a situation almost too horrible to contemplate, isn't it!

Mary

In the current issue of "Newsweek", June 17, 2002, the Last Word by Anna Quindlen is worth reading. This may not be a clickable link, but here's the web site.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/764046.asp

Mary

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mary, for the link to Quindlen's article. Unfortunately, what she is relating is probably far more widespread than New York and Georgia.

Ms. Quindlen zeroed in on one of my pet peeves in her sentence, "Everyone complains that kids are not excited about school; the point of school increasingly seems to be incessant testing that doesn’t even have the grace to be mildly interesting."

This was one of the reasons I retired 4 years ago. Students and teachers are inundated with tests, practice for tests, etc. Too much time is spent preparing for tests and not enough time reading real writing or learning math, science, history, geography, and on and on. Administrators and school boards are so afraid of the public outcry about "schools that are not teaching" that they insist that even less time is to be spent on teaching and more on practicing for the tests. What a paradox! Sue

I have been following this discussion but I forget if the element of time has been brought up in relation to why we read. One of the things I like about reading is that I can do it whenever and, almost, whereever it works for me. I am not locked into a television or movie schedule.

There are a variety of things to read in my house so I can make a choice on what I read based on how I feel at the time I pick up a book.

For me, reading is like being on a magic carpet. The book I’m reading (if it’s good) can whisk me right inside with the characters of the story. I have found this to be true of so many of the Stephen King books, especially his Dark Tower series. I also found this to be true of John Grisham’s “The Testament.”

I just couldn’t do without my daily newspaper. The daily paper keeps me up dated on so much more than TV news. If I want an in-depth review of world events, I turn to the print news.

Bill H

BILL H: I like your choice of words -- "magic carpet" -- because that is a wonderful description of how I feel when I am reading a novel that just captures my attention. I am transported to the world the author has created for her/his characters.

I like the term "magic carpet" for reading experiences, too. One primary reading series uses that as a book title. Another primary reader that kids enjoyed and learned quickly from was titled "Worlds of Wonder". It had a poem in the front that talked about flying off to Worlds of Wonder with a book. They don't publish either of these books these days. Sue

I used to be another magic carpet reader. My trouble now is the dearth of books which take me to somewhere I would like to be. Nearly every setting is either a science fiction world or a noisy, violent city world. I like unpeopled wilderness or at least plenty of space between people. This usually means going back in time quite a ways, since there are entirely too many people everywhere we go in this age. Since it is so hard to escape the bustle, machine noise and hectic pace of this world, even in books, I tend to shut the blinds, play classical or ragtime instrumental music to cover the sound, and lose myself in making things. Shopping for books, in stores, libraries or online is so often too frustrating.

Ben I don't know if you have read it but the world Wharton creates in "My Antonio" is the world of the plains states that my grandfather grew up in and so well written I can feel the grass whipping my legs in the wind, as I go across a field on the "magic carpet". I too love books about wide open spaces, new frontiers, people in the days my grands talked about so much. Faith

I am also an avid newspaper reader. I love the feel of a "real" paper, and a "real" book in my hands. That is why I do not feel I will ever entirely embrace the internet as my sole source of news and information. My husband and I have a routine on weekends...I cook breakfast on Saturday, Rick on Sunday. Therefore I can sit back, relax and read my paper while I am being served breakfast. I do not take a paper delivery, as I more enjoy the liesurely 5 minute walk to the corner to get the paper out of the box there. I think this is the same reason I will probably (I will never say never) not start investing in e-books. Noting beats turning the pages and looking at the cover of a book. I tried audio books once when I was laid up after a hospital stay and was not able to sit up comfortably enough to hold the book. I found it hard to concentrate and follow. Oh well. Marie

If you like mysteries, you might try the two series by Dana Stabenow. Her protagonists live in the Alaska Bush - definitely not your most populated places. And she writes a pretty good yarn, too.

Mary

Tiger Tom, who previously led this discussion, has found it necessary to with draw from the leadership role because of vision problems. We at SeniorNet fully understand the necessity for his decision and wish him the very best.

Tiger Tom: John and I are so sorry to hear about your vision problems. You'll be sorely missed as a discussion leader, and we certainly hope you'll continue as a participant.

Mary and John Z

Tiger Tom - I didn't participate as much as I would have liked but I certainly enjoyed the discussion and your leadership. Also, I sympathize as my husband is having disturbing vision problems lately. I do wish you the very best and hope we will be reading your posts, at the least.

I've done a lot of research and asking around about eye conditions and if you think I might help you with anything, please email. Best of luck to you!

You will be missed, Tiger Tom. I really enjoy this discussion and hope it carries on. Are you able to look in occasionally? And have you tried those large magnifying screens that can be placed on your monitor to enlarge everything? But maybe that's not the kind of eye problem you are having. I hope you'll find a solution so that you are comfortable reading again. Sue

I am sorry to hear about Tiger Tom and his problem. He has done such an excellent job in leading the discussion. Oh for a talking compute to tell you what is written.

I will copy your posts of good wishes for Tiger Tom and see that they reach him. I would hope he will have someone who will be able to read them to him. Just another reason I am so delighted with SeniorNet is the care shown for each other.

Tiger Tom I hope your problem is only temporary. We will miss you in our Book discussions.

Carolyn

Has the reason you read changed over time?

I know that when I was in college I read mostly for knowledge. I probably also read fiction but I don't remember that very well.

Then there was the time after my divorce when I was reading self-help books almost exclusively. I guess what I wanted was to make changes in myself and how I see the world so that my life would be different in the future.

Now I am retired and read mostly fiction for pleasure.

Marjorie

I have always read for pleasure. However when I got into my forties I too began reading a lot of self help books. Now I read for relaxation mostly.

Carolyn

I always read for pleasure, but the things that give me pleasure have sure changed over the years.

STEPHANIE: I certainly agree with you that the things that give me pleasure have sure changed over the years. It seems that I will go for a few years reading almost exclusively one type of fiction and then all of a sudden that changes and I am reading another completely different type. I guess it is good that there are so many authors and so many books to read.

I've had periods of reading different genres, but during those periods I still read fiction for pleasure. I had a self-help period, a spiritual period, travel books, history, and a tiny biographical period. I even had a best seller period once when I had a library that had them available. And of course, when I was in college both as an undergraduate and a graduate student I spent more time on text books. Another favorite genre is children's literature. I have a big collection which I started when my sons were babies and added to through their growing up years and my teaching days. I still have plenty of books to read to my grandchildren! Sue

Sue I too have a good little library for my grandchildren. A lot of the books some of them really good authors and wonderful illustrations I have got for 50c each at the local library. I got a whole set of readers for the first two years of school for $1 the lot from our library. The librarians seem to get a lot of pleasure from my purchases for the grandchildren and often drop the prices on the used books without me asking! My pre school grandchildren love the readers and they are learning to read without it being a chore. They get to take one home to read to their parents each time they visit. The next time they come they get a new one. Nikolas is only 2 and he is the best reader I think!

Carolyn

Carolyn, my youngest grandson is also a Nicolas, just spelled differently. He is 3 1/2 and absolutely loves being read to. He can identify all the alphabet and can sing the alphabet song backwards from z as well as the ABC way. He recognizes words and phrases, too. His older brother, Alex, who is 5 has prereading skills also, but hasn't as much patience as Nicky to sit. He likes to hear the story once, but Nicky will ask me to reread the book over and over, as long as I am willing.

I'm taking both of them to the beach next week. We plan lots of swimming and building sandcastles, but we'll be reading, too. We'll probably have to play Go Fish and Old Maid, too. I'm really looking forward to it. I haven't seen them since April when I went to Louisiana for Alex's 5th birthday. Sue

P.S. Sorry, readers. I don't wish to bore you with Grandchildren stories, but I am a proud Granny!

My Nikolas adores books too as do Brooke 4 and Grace 18mths. Brooke also likes classical music so does Grace. Their favorites are ballet music such as the Nutcracker Suite. Its just so much fun to see the joy these little ones have with reading and music. Grandparents can be wonderful teachers.

Carolyn

It has been quiet in here. Is everyone on vacation?

When I have thought about what I read now and what I used to read, I have had difficulty remembering what I used to read. I seem to be better able to know what I am reading now. I started reading when I was a child (not just in school) and haven't stopped. I wonder if I don't remember what kinds of things I have read at different times in my life because I just take reading for granted. What say all of you?

I hope everyone had a wonderful 4th of July and our Canadian friends had a great Canada Day on July 1.

I read because the books are there. Just like mountain climbers say they climb because the mountains are there.

That is a thought to ponder, GINNY ANN.

When I look at the header and all of the suggested reasons I smile because all of them apply. Of course you could add cereal boxes, telephone books,personals, lost and found and even want ads. It seems I NEED to read ...and now with the computer and senior net I add the posts I find here.

I cant recall a time I didnt read so I must have started at a very young age. I do know my mother would fuss at me to turn out my bedroom light and go to bed. Once I was so involved with a book I held it so the moon could shine on it and read it after lights were out.

I find as I have grown older I no longer will read a book that doesnt capture my attention, regardless of its genre. There are just too many out there that I will never have opportunity to read so I have become very selective.

Just adding my two cents to the discussion..anna in Virginia

I no longer waste my time on books that do not catch and hold me. Just not enough time left. I love pretty much all types of books. For every type that I am not that fond of, I find exceptions, so I guess I read pretty much all of it.

The years of our lives have honed us to pare away rules that no longer apply. My main rule is to ignore the finish what you start rule. Reading is very personal. So, if a book doesn't meet my standard, I now can stop reading it and move on to one that does meet my reading need.

Welcome ANNAFAIR to our discussion. There are a lot of things to read and I am definitely glad that I was born to a family that values education. I would not like to be illiterate.

I am finally able, most of the time, to put a book down that isn't working for me. Sometimes a story is so gripping that I have to finish the book in order to relax from all the emotions the story has stirred up.

Interesting how many of us no longer feel the compulsion to read to the end everything we begin. The first time I did that was difficult but I now almost see it as gaining control over an addiction that is at once a blessing and a curse. Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration but you know what I mean.

And like many of you, I've weeded away some books I know I'll never read. Sad when at one time I thought that of COURSE I'll have read everything I wanted to by some point in the distant future.

I went a little overboard at one point and decided to read no more fiction - there was more than enough non-fiction to hold my attention forever. I actually have to thank Oprah for snapping me out of that one. I hardly ever see her show but I happened on it during one of her early book discussion groups. I can't even tell you which book it was but it captured my curiosity, the library had it, and I read it. All the time thinking, "How could I have deprived myself of the adventure and wonder of fiction? What was I THINKING?"

Diane you sound like me a few years ago I started on binge of reading everything I could about past history. I had Origins Revisted and somehow that whet my appitite for more in the same vein. I think The Bridges of Madison County came out about that time and I read that...now I enjoyed it although my oldest daughter and I debated its merits but it moved easily and wasnt tedious so I think that helped.

Reading the non fiction my mind was becoming too embroiled in the history of man's beginnings and I needed something light, easy to read and Bridges did that.

Since then I sort of mix my reading...I just finished Daddy's Little Girl by Mary Higgins Clark and have to say it wasnt up to her past books. It seems over the years some of my favorite authors have given in to pleas from their publishers "We do need a new book from you " and they knock out one that is merely ok. Which is the way I felt about this one. It was an easy read and since I had nothing in the house easier I finished it ...It wont keep you on the edge of your seat and it wont be a book you will re read or remember ..what do they call them "Beach Books" this is a perfect one.

So good to see we have all reached that perfect time when a dull book is ignored. Thank goodness we no longer have to read for grades...for I would flunk to be sure...anna

Annafair, I know what you mean. My big passion is health, mainly various aspects of nuitrition, but other things, too. Recently I just needed a break from all that and picked up "The Pilot's Wife". It was an easy read, not quite the page-turner that was promised by the various reviewers, and flawed here and there, but still a nice diversion.

I think I used to be much more tempted by paperbacks at the grocery and drug stores. I could hardly walk by without picking up one or two that I just had to have - and read. And enjoy! But for a lot of years now nothing much seems interesting on those shelves. It's sad and I don't know if my tastes have changed that much or if, as you said, the publishers are just encouraging more in the way of quantity and not quality. And the prices! I didn't have to think if I could "afford" paperbacks back in earlier times - now I really stop and think if I really want to spend, what? $5.99 or more on a paperback. Seems book prices have gone up way out of proportion.

We've both been in a reading frenzy the last month or so - and it's wonderful! John reads history interspersed with mysteries and sea stories, while I read mostly mysteries. We've just discovered a couple of "new" authors - new to us anyway - and have been racing to get caught up on their past efforts. We've gotten some from the library, but a major source for us is our local used book store. That's a great place to browse - and then you can turn them back in for credit when you're through with them.

Sometimes, I buy from Amazon.com, and I've started buying used books through them, too. They're ever so much cheaper, even with the addition of the S&H charges, and I've not had any problems with any of the sellers.

We're each taking a sack of books to the beach in another week. This is our annual family get-together, and one of our traditions is a book swap. Each of us brings a sack of books we've read and are willing to pass on, or just read there. It's great fun. And our grands are doing a lot of reading, too.

Mary

MARY: It sounds like you have a Book Exchange within your own family. That is just great. Sometime you might want to come over to SeniorNet's Book Exchange and see what is available or offer some books you no longer want. We exchange books for just the price of postage. A "reading frenzy" sounds just like where I am right now.

Another good place to get used books is your local library's annual (or semi-annual) book sale. We check it out every time and I can't remember when we came home empty-handed. Several years ago, on our 3 1/2 month odyssey to Alaska and back, we even hit a library sale in Prince Rupert, BC - got a whole sackful to replenish our supply.

Mary

On my way home from the beach on Tuesday, I made a stop at a GoodWill store in Bay Minette. I bought a bag of paperbacks for 69 cents each. Then I stopped at the public library in Troy which is about 35 miles from me. They maintain a little room with the help of the Friends of the Library. They sell paperbacks for 25 cents and hardbacks for 50 Cents or $1.00, depending on size. I got another bag of books there, so I'm all set for a few weeks. Besides loving to read, I love book bargains, too. If I find that I don't wish to read these books I can always trade them in at my Used book store for credit on books I'd like to have. Sue

Hey SpringCreek -

We're headed in your direction on Saturday - for our annual (since 1981) trip to Gulf Shores - for the last 8-10 years, we've been renting both sides of a duplex out near Fort Morgan (near MM#6). I hope you left some sand and shrimp for us. It's nice to know there's a place to buy used books in that vicinity. In nearly every picture we take during the week, there's somebody reading.

Mary

Hey, Mary: Gulf Shores was great July 3-9. We were on West Beach Road, not as crowded as I expected. The Gulf was nice and clean, too. We only had seaweed the last evening after a rain storm.

The GoodWill store in Bay Minette is right across the street from the Super Wal-Mart. The new Orange Beach library also sells paper backs and hardbacks at reduced prices. They also have computers you can use to get on the web. When it rained I took my grandsons there to play computer games. That is a beautiful library--looks out on Perdido Bay. It's near that Doc's place that all the plumbers eat at, and on the way to my favorite restaurant, the Bayside Grill.

Have fun--that's my favorite kind of holiday! Sue

Thanks, Sue. We always like book-buying and eating recommendations. There's a nice library in Gulf Shores, too. One SIL brings his lap-top, so there's always a way for us to check e-mail.

Did you have any problems with jellyfish?

Mary

There were no jellyfish when we were down there. I think they come in later in August and September. I really like going down there in August after Alabama schools start. The beach is not crowded and the condos cut their prices until Labor Day weekend when they are up again. September also has some great swimming weather, too. Sue

When we first started going down, we liked to go the last week in August that ended the weekend before the Labor Day weekend. But now, our grands range in age from 13-19 - and school schedules just won't permit that. So now it's usually the latter part of July.

We're off first thing in the morning with our two sacks of books...one to read and one to trade in our big book swap.

Mary

Are you doing more or less reading now that the summer weather is here? Why?

Steal not this book, my honest friend,
For fear the gallows should be your end,
And when you die the Lord will say,
And where's the book you stole away?
Richard Hooker (1554-1600)

Love the poem! Thanks for sharing it.

Marjorie, I always have a book going, even when I'm watching the WNBA on TV. I certainly prefer reading to summer TV except for the women's games. So I'd say I read about the same as I do year round. Sue

I read the same any time during the year. Since we live in Florida and it is tremendously hot just now, I am reading a bit more since I dont go off to the beach as much. Just too hot and no breeze. My husband goes and buries himself in the water up to his neck, but I get sunburned if I try that.

I hope I am not being too repetitive for you all here. I am copying a post I saw in the Welcome Center that clearly describes some excitement going on these days in Books & Literature.

SeniorNet Bookclubs is a Participating Organization in the National Book Festival 2002 in Washington DC, October 12, 2002, put on by the LIbrary of Congress and Laura Bush !!!!!!!!!

Congratulations to Joan Pearson, who made it possible for us to be participants in the National Book Festival...

I will be unable to attend the Bookfest this year but hope to be there when it is in California (close to my home).

The word "succor" is in the heading. I suppose that would come close to what I was recently thinking about. When I am healing from whatever, I find reading (certain kinds of books) to be very healing. I can relax and get my conscious mind off how I am feeling.

When I had cataract surgery in 1995, I listened to books on tape and enjoyed that a lot.

Anyone else listen to books on tape or use books when healing? How often? What kind of books are healing for you?

Marjorie, how long after your cataract surgery was reading a problem? I'm due for cataract surgery on one eye on 26 August, and maybe the other eye in November sometime. I guess I had assumed I could read with the unoperated eye for a day or two, and then both again.

Mary

I love mysteries on tape and listen to them at the gym, in the car, etc. Must have a strong plot for me to enjoy them. Just finished "The Nanny Diaries" not a mystery, but compelling. Hopefully, totally unreal since I would hate to think that a woman could be that self absorbed. Oh well, who knows.

MARY: I don't remember when I could read again. All this took place 7 years ago. I know that my glasses were getting thicker and thicker and being changed every 3 months before my surgery. I had the first one in late April/early May but had to postpone the second surgery because I got sick just after the eye doctor said the first eye had healed. I think the second one was in early fall. I remember spending time in bed with the room dark when I was healing. I don't know for how long. Sorry. After my surgery I took the lens out of the side in my glasses that had just been operated on. It wasn't perfect but it was much much better than before. I never regretted having the surgery. Everything was so much clearer after both eyes healed.

I am SO looking foward to getting this eye done! The vision in it has deteriorated quickly over the last few months. The doctor says the other eye is just as bad, however. So ASAP, I'll go ahead and schedule the other eye to be done. Because of other plans, that'll have to wait until November.

I may try the books on tape - but I'd have to find unabridged ones - just hate shortened versions. That will be a way, though, that I can finally knit and "read" at the same time.

Mary

MARY: I haven't done any knitting in a long time. I prefer to do needlepoint right now. I do remember a time, when my kids were little, in the evening I will relax with knitting, a book, and the TV. I frequently would knit while I was reading because my hands moved without my looking at them. When I had the TV on, I knit and read during commercials. No way I want to do that many things at once now. I hadn't thought of books on tape for a long time. They would be good to listen to when I am doing needlepoint and there is nothing good on TV to watch (really listen to).

I've been alternating between knitting socks, crocheting afghans, and needlepoint. I'm finishing up a knitting project, and then have some needlepoint ready to start. I can't just sit and watch TV - have to have something to do with my hands. And, like you, I don't have to look when I'm knitting unless it's something really complicated. Plus, I've learned to always take some project with me when we travel. That's why I started back with needle point a few years ago - to have something relatively small to do on the plane. Can't do that now, of course - no way to take sharp needles and scissors on a plane anymore.

Mary

MARY: Have you been to the Needles, Hooks, and Shuttles discussion?

Who else likes to "read" books on tape? When and why?

Marjorie: Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give it a look.

Mary

Zwyram - - - My first cataract was in 1989 - both eyes suffered dazzle at night, & everything everywhere had a brown fog. When the young man took off the dressing, it was like some war-time film. "I can SEE!" I said. When I came home it looked like everywhere had been given a really good clean. Nothing like it - it was magical.

Before the operation, I could read if I peered & held the book up to my face, but afterwards I could read OK, but better with glasses - The long sight was very good. Still is. Just think, 100 years ago we'd be groping around, registered as blind & walking with a white stick.`

After having been far-sighted all my life, it is now my distance vision that is giving me the most trouble. So far, reading hasn't been a problem...it's been with the TV and movies. Soon, soon......

Thanks for all your wonderful words of encouragement.
Mary

Hi all,

I've enjoyed reading the posts in this group. I read for all the afore-mentioned reasons, but mostly to relax and rest. The minute I sit down I pick up a book. And if it is only for 10 minutes, I feel rested and refreshed. Books take me places I've never been, really take me there, they console me during sad times, they challenge my thinking, make me re-examine my opinions at times. I read everything--fiction, non-fiction, biography, memoirs, children's books, young adult books.

It really soothes my soul to find that so many people have a like "addiction". My husband, who is pretty much a non-reader, says I have an illness. He is more of a "people person", but will read if he is really interested in the topic.

Must go and pull weeds from flower beds, now that we have finally had some rain to loosen the soil--our first in 7 weeks! I look forward to reading more posts in this group--it has been so interesting!

Lou Ann

LOU ANN: Welcome to this discussion. I am glad you found us. I don't read as many different kinds of books as you but I read a lot every day. Books are important to me too. You sound like you don't let your husband's comments stop you from reading. Good for you!

How would the group feel about modifying the question for this discussion to What did we read this summer (fall, winter, spring)? That might provide more ongoing discussion. What do you all think?

Marjorie

That sounds good to me, Marjorie, as long as we keep the original questions for new to the group readers. Sue

SUE: Good idea. Maybe we can incorporate the two questions into Why and what do we read? We could have all of the suggestions that are in the heading now for the why and put different genres in for the what.

Any other comments?

If you noticed the heading, the topic here has been expanded to include not just WHY we read but also WHAT we read. That means what genre we read and what specifically we read.

I will start: I have been reading mostly romance novels for several months now. They provide a break from everyday concerns and help me to relax. I don't have to think very hard when I am reading them. Many times I am reading romances with mystery in them. Most of the time I post the titles I have been reading in the Romance Books discussion. I don't know how many people here are interested in romances.

Marjorie

interested in Romances. For me the "Happy Ending" is important. I like mysteries and some sci/fi. When I am feeling well I will tackle a book that requires more of my attention. But even then, I will still read romances because they satisfy my book needs.

Hi GINNY ANN. Glad to see you here.

I also like Romances, but they must have a spunky heroine and a hero who is sensitive to her needs, although strong and stalwart. I like them to be involved in a mystery, also.

I read mysteries and "who dun-its" as well. I also like some Westerns and historical novels. Actually I will read almost anything, cereal boxes included. I can't get through the day without a daily paper. I start at the first section and read straight through until I reach the classifieds. I prefer the editorial page, sports page, features, and comics, but I read parts of every section.

Another category I like to read is children's literature and young adult novels. I have lots of these as I am a retired teacher. I still go to school to read aloud to classes. I read aloud to my grandchildren, too. Sue

I like books on tapes for two reasons.

Firstly I have fibromyalgia and wearing my glasses too long hurts my head.

Secondly I can only speed read and I miss a lot from this form of reading.

I can knit or do housework while I listen.

Carolyn

CAROLYN: Have you read any good books on tape lately? I don't read them often but from time to time they work for me. Before my cataract surgery was all finished and healed (in 1995), books on tape were the only way to read. The only problem I had with that is that I couldn't go back to an earlier page to find the reference to a minor character.

P.S. Books on tape are a good way to learn to be a good listener.

I'm with Sue. Cereal boxes, newspapers and any and everything in between. Mysteries are my favorite, Historical Fiction and Romance come next. I"m presently suffering from withdrawal since I'vehad a guest for 2 weeks and couldn"t even find a few minutes to read and relax. So as soon as I finish catching up on all the discussions I missed I shall have a marathon reading afternoon BARB

Go for it, Barb! I love having company but I do hate not being able to take a time out and read. I'm afraid I wait until bedtime and then spend 2 or 3 hours reading--so next morning I have to hide my grumpiness. I really need those 8 hours of sleep, but I have no will power when it comes to reading. I think I'll just quit at the end of the chapter, but you know how it is. Good authors put a lead in to the next chapter and I just have to keep reading to find out what it is. Sue

SUE: With some books I find I have to put them down in the middle of a chapter. Some books have natural breaks within the chapter (extra space between paragraphs) and those work the best. Otherwise, I am like you and have a terrible time putting down a good book.

That's a good suggestion, Marjorie. Now if I can just make myself stop in the middle at the break! Sue

Marjorie - you can get almost any title on tape.

Recently I read "The tenant of Wildfell hall" Its by one of the Bronte sisters but cant remember which one LOL! The classics are better on tape than when you read them.

Another one I have just finished is Clawhammer - mystery and intrigue cant remember author (I have short term memory problems)

Crescent City by Belva Plain is another good book - set in New Orleans area historical novel spanning a generation. The civil war plays a big part in it.

Hope these help!

Those of you who have trouble sleeping - audio books work better than sleeping pills- when turned on when you go to bed each night. Many of my sleepless friends now use them instead of meds after my recommendation. Its kind of like when Mum and Dad read a bedtime story and you fell asleep while listening.

Carolyn

But Carolyn, if you fall asleep while listening you'll miss the end of the story! Do you rewind and listen to the parts you missed when you were sleeping? Sue

"There is no frigate like a book"--Emily Dickinson

Books on tape are great. I first became acquainted with "The Cat Who _____" series by Lilian Jackson Braun several years ago when I was having trouble with my eyes. I listend to all 28 or 29 books that way--when I walk, am in my car, or in particular, when I am doing household chores that I detest (which is most of them!). As a matter of fact I'll be listening to "At Home in Mitford" by Jan Karon as I go out to pull weeds in the flowers right now. That is one delightful book!

LOU ANN: The way you "read" books on tape you get to do more reading that I do. I take books with me for waiting at the doctor's office, etc. But if I listened, I would "read" more. I bet the Cat Who ... books are great on tape. Do you buy all your books on tape new? used? get them at the library?

Are most of the books on tape abridged? I've heard that some are and some aren't. How do y'all feel about that?

Mary

"There is no frigate like a book"--Emily Dickinson

Marjorie,

Most of the audio books on tape that I "read", I get at the library. The "Cat who" books were wonderful on tape--they have really gifted readers who assume all the "parts", change their voices, etc. They are really accomplished literary "actors"! For my birthday this year, I received a gift card for Borders, so treated myself to David McCullough's "John Adams". It was wonderful! And this series by Jan Karon about Mitford is turning out to be enthralling.

Zwyram,

The audio books can be acquired either abridge, or non-abridged. I myself prefer the un-abridge versions, because I don't want to miss one wonderful word! In fact, I just requested the second of the Jan Karon series from my library and specified that it must be unabridged. It will come in about a week through inter-library loan. "Books-on-Tape" books are always unabridged.

I am lazy because I keep getting books over the Internet from eBay or half.com. Sounds to me like I had better check out my local library. It isn't very far away. I just don't seem to stop there.

I get all my tapes from the local library. They are usually "Chivers" or "Sound Recordings" they are mostly unabridged.

Through audio books I have "read" a much more diverse range of books than I would have done in the normal run of things. Somehow the readings are so much better than reading oneself. I don't miss a word and as I am a trained speed reader I cannot read every word in a novel.

Yes I rewind the tapes on the ones I go off to sleep listening to. The audio tapes work better than any sleeping meds for me and there is no pill hangover the next morning. Try an audio book and you will become addicted as I am!

Carolyn

Carolyn I never thought of an audio book as a sleeping pill but when I do listen especially espionage etc. like I remember the Red October being great is when I am long distance driving. The book seems to involve a different part of my brain than the part used to drive and it is great. Around town I am finding poetry read on tape to be fabulous. Hearing the poems is another treat - I miss more than I realize by just reading them - I was blown away when I really heard Robbie Burns...My Love is Like a Red Red Rose.

BARBARA: I would imagine that poetry would be great on tape. I have never done very well reading poetry. I might try it sometime and fine I like poetry after all.

Have y'all heard about Book Crossing? I just read about this today in the Wordsmith AWADmail issue #85. Check it out.

http://bookcrossing.com/

Mary

p.s. If you don't know about Wordsmith, it's http://www.wordsmith.org

MARY: Thanks for those links. They are both interesting.

Usually when I read books I am reading fiction. Otherwise I will read a newsmagazine or newspaper. Right now, however, I decided to participate in the discussion Botany of Desire and I find myself reading a nonfiction book that is interesting! I don't know that I agree with all of the author's conclusions but there are a lot of things mentioned that I didn't know about so I am learning many new things.

What book discussion have any of you participated in? Which have you enjoyed the most?

I have enjoyed both fiction and non fiction. The Sea the Sea, Currently the Kindred Souls book (Eleanor Roosevelts friendship with a younger man) I have started reading The life of Greece which is coming up soon and I am in Angle of Repose. I have enjoyed all the discussions I have participated in so far.

Carolyn

CAROLYN: I am glad you are enjoying the discussions here. How much time do you spend reading every day? I read about 2 hours a day.

I dont sleep a lot so can be up to 5 hrs a day reading. The other day I was doing some research for one of the discussions and I read most of the day. I can speed read so can get through a lot of non fiction for research in 5 hrs.

Carolyn

CAROLYN: I never did learn to speed read. It would sure come in handy sometimes.

Books & Literature is celebrating its SIXTH Anniversary. If you would like to join the fun come to the

BOOKIE BIRTHDAY PARTY ROOM

"There is no frigate like a book"--Emily Dickinson

Where has everybody been? Maybe everyone is busily reading--ya think?

Hi, Lou Ann. I have been reading, but I'm also keeping an eye on the weather channel. My youngest son and family live in the New Orleans area and I'm worried about Hurricane Lili. Sue

"There is no frigate like a book"--Emily Dickinson

Sue,

I hope your son weathers Lili all right. We need the rain, up here in the midwest. It's dry, dry, dry!

Lou Ann

Sue I hope your son stays safe and dry. {{{{{Sue}}}}

SUE: Do you suppose you could send some rain to us in California and to LOU ANN in the midwest? I hope your son gets through the hurricane safely.

LOU ANN: I have been reading and running errands and working in the garden and doing technical things in Books & Literature, and, and, and ... I usually get here with subscriptions and when there were no other posts I just didn't get here. The few times I thought about posting, I couldn't think of anything much to post about. Maybe I just need to say "Hi" next time.

Thanks for the kind wishes for my son. I'm still watching the weather channel and it looks pretty bad, but if they stay inside should be OK. New Orleans and St. John's Parish where they live have not suggested evacuation, and I suppose they would if necessary. They've been putting mandatory and suggested evacuation areas on the weather channel. Sue

I wonder how many people are still here and how many have gone to the Bookfest. I would have liked to go if it was closer to my home.

It would have been such fun.

However, getting better (recovering from chemo) has to come first. lol There always next year!

"There is no frigate like a book"--Emily Dickinson

Sue, I hope you son and family came through "Lili" okay. Did you go to Bookfest?

Ginny, Hope you are feeling better, and that your chemo will soon be over.

Lou Ann

Lou Ann, I wasn't able to go to Bookfest, although I'd love to go to a closer SeniorNet gathering. My son's family came through the storm very well. Grandson home from school for several days and son and DIL off work due to flooded streets, but no damage to home and family. Thanks for asking.

Has anyone read Fannie Flagg's new book, The Standing Rainbow? This might not be the exact title as I returned it to the library and I'm not great on remembering details. It was a pleasant and amusing read with some pathos thrown in. It's not as funny as her previous books but enjoyable just the same. Sue

Just in case any of you are interested there are photos from the Bookfest HERE. At this point they are about people arriving. I found them interesting.

Thanks, Marjorie. The pictures are great. I hope you'll post more links as more pictures are sent in. Sue

SUE: I will try to remember. I am subscribed to that discussion so it takes me there when there is a new post. I know you know how subscriptions work.

I read to escape a stressful day. Reading just makes me feel better. Vanessa

"There is no frigate like a book"--Emily Dickinson

Vanessa--welcome. I haven't seen your name here before. You expressed my feelings exactly! I read for many reasons, but it all goes back to the fact that reading makes me feel better! It is wonderful to lose myself in a book, and escape the stress of the day!

I agree with you both. Before I can get to sleep at night I need to read fiction. The story gets me away from reality.

VANESSA: Welcome! I, also, agree with you and LOU ANN and GINNY ANN. Reading is a great escape for me. What kinds of books to you like best?

Marjorie--

I guess my favorite genre is histrical fiction, although I will read nearly anything including the back of the cereal box, if I am desparete (sp?)! I also like non-fiction--memoirs, autobiograpy, biography. I don't care for horror stories or romances (sorry!)

Have you joined us for any of our book discussions? Your name is not familiar to me but that doesn't mean a thing -- I forget most of what I did have in mind. that's scary as I'm walking the Alzheimers walk on saturday. I've collected $ 145.00 from sponsors.

LOU ANN: I don't like horror stories either. No need to be sorry that you don't like romances. There wouldn't be the wonderful variety of books to choose from if everyone didn't have different tastes. I keep reminding myself of this when I find that I am reading lots of "trash" romances. I seem to go in spurts when I want to have a short story that I can get lost in and often finish before I go to sleep.

ALF: Good luck with the Altzheimer's walk on Saturday.

Marjorie I don't call my short quick romances trash reads. Maybe we can call them popcorn reads or cotton candy reads instead. lol While I have been going through my Breast Cancer treatments I find that quick light reads are just what I need. However, I also check what the reviews are for some of the books before reading them. The 1* or 2* books may have been published, but with all the 4* books out there, I prefer to read the better rated stories.

GinnyAnn, where do you find the * ratings on romance novels? I know I ought to know this, but I've never really looked. I just try to get books by authors I've read previously and liked. I also like light reading as bedtime reading. Otherwise I am up all night trying to work the complicated plot out in my head! (I sometimes stay up late to finish a romance, too, if it's a good one. I've been known to read not so good ones, also. I have a hard time putting a book down no matter how good). Sue

Alf,

No I haven't participated in any of the book discussions on SeniorNet. I just discovered the site in the beginning of Oct.! I am a pretty independent reader, however, and usually am immersed in something else when you all are discussing another title. I'll make it a point to peek in, though and see what you and others have to say. The discussion on the Bob Greene book really interests me. I like his style of writing very much.

Lou ann, do join in on any of our many discussions. Our DL's love new readers with new perspectives.

Gaj: good for you. If it helps to pass the time with those "bubble gum" novels (that's what I call them when I need an easy read) then you go girl! If you want to laugh, read Janet Evanovich "one for the Money." (and on and on up to eight now.)

Reading soothes the soul!

Thank you GINNY ANN and ALF for giving me something else to call the books I read -- now to decide between popcorn, cotton candy and bubble gum. I think when I say "trash" I have internalized some judgment about "good" books from when I was little.

GINNY ANN: I, too, would like to know where you find ratings of popcorn books.

Hi LOU ANN and SUE.

Marjorie

I was just telling PURPLE SAGE about popcorn, cotton candy and bubble gum books. She told me that in the library (where she used to work) they called them bedtime stories for old women.

Any other descriptions out there? I think I will ask over in the Romance Books discussion and see what people there have to say.

LOL --'Bedtime stories for old women.' Now I have heard it all!

I find the ratings at
http://www.romantictimes.com/
This is my favorite book site. I have even subscribed to their magazine! Just type in the books title or the author's name after going to the book page. This page lets you do both the title and author. The author page just lets you type in the author's name. I like that for checking out the author's other books.
http://www.fictiondb.com/RomanceDB/Default.htm
At FictionData Base they have the free section and the membership area. You can find a rating for a book by a spicific author but, you can't do some of the features searches that the site provides. I tried their free month and found I didn't need the extras.

Marjorie, I have a friend who once told me that a professor she knew called romance novels sub-literature. That was a long time ago. I think he/she might have to reconsider on some of the better authors: Krentz, Phillips, Hannah, Delinsky, Roberts--and others who write several genres. Sue

GINNY ANN: I tried your link to romantictimes.com and was able to look up an author I just read. One of my popcorn books. The book I just finished turns out to be a *** one. That is a neat site. Thanks for the link.

I read at the end of the day to clear my mind for sleep.Recently i joined a library reading group and had to read 2 books which i never would have chosen to read,however i persisted, although to be honest i didn't feel good plodding and no skipping as we have to take part in a discussion next time!One of the recent reads,Elephant ,was by American author Raymond Carver described on the cover as a kind of Chekov.All the stories were about a wife and were hard to figure out without any proper endings many thought.I think maybe it's a good idea to be in a reading group in that you do get other peoples opinions?

ROIDININKI, reading with a group helps me understand parts I might otherwise have missed although I have to read a work on my own first for the pleasure of it and to get the overall impact of the book. I think its stretching the qualities of Raymond Carver for the book jacket to says he's another, or a kind of, Chekov. Chekov has a wider range and more expansive viewpoint with no self-pity being exposed in his fictional work. Carver is an excellent writer, mostly short stories but some poems, and is minimalist and understated which might have induced the comparison. What I found disconcerting is that he is centered so much on himself. Most of the male characters are Carver-versions and he's overly sympathetic to himself.

Maybe your group can find more in Raymond Carver than I do.

Marvelle

Welcome ROIDININKI. Glad to have you in this group. I am glad MARVELLE responded to you post. I haven't read Thomas Carver and would be unable to comment about his book.

Marvelle thanks for your comments,Elephant was just one of the many we had set to read,and really i don't think i will be exploring him any further.

Just finished Zabelle by Nancy Kricorian; what a wonderful bittersweet story. It tells of old world values as they are brought to the new world, America, and how people live with loss and gain as old values give way to new.

And from the story if you think your mother-in-law is not as nice as you would like her to be, most likely you will end up thinking she is a saint in comparison to the mothers-in-law of the Armenian culture.

I like reading stories about people from other cultures. This book fulfilled my expectations. I hope to read others like it.

SHOWDOG: Welcome to this discussion. Zabelle sounds interesting. You said you like "reading stories about people from other cultures." Do you read more fiction or nonfiction? Do you read at any special time of day?

I find I read in the evening for sure. I may or may not read very often during the day. That depends on how busy I am with other things.

Marjorie

Reading is like breathing to me. I have a book with me at all times and more likely than not if I am sitting I am reading. Unless I am too tired, then I'll watch television. I ride the bus to work which means I have two hours of reading time for sure. After that it just depends on how much work at home I have to do etc.

I start out the morning reading philosophy because I am at my best in the morning. For the bus ride, I usually read a best seller or new release. As I work at a book store, I am allowed to take books out on loan. In the evening I like to read biography, history, and self-help books. I'd say I read an even mix of fiction and nonfiction. One of the things I thought would be fun for me to do is write little snippets of what I read if I thought the book had some merit.

SHOWDOG: You are very lucky to work in a bookstore. I would be reading on the bus if I rode for 2 hours every day. I don't do any commuting now that I am retired and before that I lived 5 minutes from the office.

Just about finished with a book I took out on loan titled "Honest To God", coauthored by Neale Donald Walsch and Dr. Brad Blanton. The first part caught my attention. The co-authors present their opposing views on truth telling. Both agree that in order to be free and happy with oneself-one must speak the truth. For example, when angry with others, let them know you are angry instead of hiding your anger and pretending everything is all right. What they disagree on is the manner in which truth is told. Walsch advocates speaking the truth softly-speaking in terms of kindness. Blanton goes for the shock factor-pull no punches. Swearing and name calling are not off limits for him.

The reason I wanted to read the book (after scanning it at the store) is because it has a bearing on how I evaluate characters in fiction. Fictional characters endearing to most people are usually characters that do speak kindly and most often hide their true feelings. They also make great sacrifices for others. The characters I like most are characters true to themselves even if they are "bad" in some ways. These characters always come off as selfish because they don't make sacrifices for others; rather, they create situations where others are forced to give more of themselves. Hence suffering is always envolved. But that is not only life, it is living.

The latter part of the book is written in response to 9/11. I was disappointed in that part because what they wrote doesn't help very much. What they are asking for is new leadership coming not from elected officials or even from educators but from spiritually grounded people. People who understand the U.S. is central to world survival but the World is not and cannot be centered on U.S priorities only.

SHOWDOG: Your post about Honest to God will make me pay more attention to why the characters in the books I read do what they do -- to tell the truth "softly"; to tell the truth "pulling no punches"; or maybe not to tell the truth.

"The Ice Man Cometh" by Eugene O'Neil is one of my favorite dramas. It is very much about truth telling. The message of the play is that society at large conspires to allow us to live our lives with secrets intact.

In the play, Hickey, a confidence man, vistis a fleabag-hotel bar on a periodic basis. The patrons look forward to his visits because he not only buys them drinks but he supports them by joking and pretending with them that they have a future. But one day Hickey gets tired of it all. Instead of joking and listening to their stories, he calls their bluff and makes them face the truth. Now this once cohesive society breaks down so that everyone is at each other's throat.

The patrons pull back together when they find out Hickey has murdered his wife. Hickey explains the murder. He murdered his wife to put her out her misery. For years and years she believed that one day he would reform and be the husband she wanted him to be. He knew he never would be; he proved his infidality to her time after time. She always forgave him, she was always miserable. So, he killed her because he could not stand to see her so miserable. The conclusion of the patrons is that Hickey must be insane. Otherwise he wouldn't have acted so strangely; nor would he have made them see themselves as strangers to each other.

In "Honest to God", the argument is that peace cannot be realized until the truth is known. In "The Ice Man Cometh", the argument is that sometimes truth brings about chaos from which no one benefits. Therefore, it seems to me, telling the truth is risky business. That I am not comfortable with either argument is why I keep on reading.

SHOWDOG: Your excellent summaries do, indeed, present the two stories as opposite ends of a spectrum. There have been times when I have wanted to know the truth about a particular event in order to settle a dispute. I don't know if it is possible to know the truth. Truth, just as beauty, seems to be in the eye of the beholder.

Read Tom Arnold's book, "How to Lose 5 pounds in 6 years", because of the title. Not a Tom Arnold fan, I was pleasantly suprised. I got a lot more from the book than I thought I would. For example, his experience with Ritalin supports my feeling about forcing children to take a drug that potentially does more harm than good in the long run. But, the best part of having read the book was getting to know Tom on his own terms. If you can get past his crude humor and bad behavior, what you have left is a warm, loving man.

Is the Arnold book a recent one, Showdog? I am a retired teacher and I always felt there was nothing worse than putting a child on Ritalin. Most of the hyperactive kids I've taught simply needed someone to have enough patience with them to teach them some manners and self control. Sue

Oh me, it is off topic, but many years ago I had a little boy who was classicaly disabled. His math skills were non existant, his sitting skills were not there. His intellect was high according to all, but he was close to failing. I had him tutored, etc, all of the things you do.. The doctor suggested ritalin on a very strict basis. Only during school days, only during the school year and only one pill a day. It was like a miracle. This little person, sat.. learned... slept the whole night through and just became a human being. The teachers and his parents ( us) were so impressed. He is now a 39 year old adult. Loving and kind and still math disabled but able to function in everyday life. He got his self confidence back with the ritalin which allowed him to function. He only took it for three years. At that point, when they reached puberty, they took the drug away. So.. I disagree there is a certain percentage of children that it helps.

Tom Arnold's book is a recent release. It's been selling pretty well at the store where I work. There is only a small section on ritalin. What Tom says is that he did not like taking it. His parents put it in his food. He could always tell when they did because he would have an unpleasant physical reaction.

Now that doesn't mean that ritalin didn't help calm him down. It is just that in reading his story, I got the idea there were other factors in his life that if they were attended to would have been more helpful than his being forced to take the drug.

Read a review on "The Piano Tuner". It seemed like a pretty good story; so, I read it. It is about a man who is the best in the business. For that reason he is commissioned to tune a doctor's piano in Burma. The story is of an adventure that happens to a man who wouldn't dream of being adventurous. There are the usual twists and turns. The awful ending was at it needed to be (I guess). At any rate, I am glad I read it and I do recommend it.

Thanks for that, showdog. I've been wanting to read The Piano Tuner, which is HOT here in San Francisco. The author - Daniel Mason??? I think - was on tour out here and seemingly everywhere. Everyone seems to be reading the book. When there's this much hype I sometimes get suspicious - so glad to hear you recommend the book.

Happy New Year, everyone! May the coming year be filled with joy, good health and peace for all of us!

Click here to see the Happy New Year card I made for everyone.

Like you, I don't usually read books when reviews or lots of people say, "you should read this". That is why I would not have read "Lovely Bones" if it were not for the fact that the group I lead chose it for January. Now that I have read it I will only say that I didn't like it at all. However, also this month, for the nonfiction group we are reading "Lucky". After reading "Lucky", I am much more interested in discussing "Lovely Bones" with the group.

How is the New Year treating all of you? Is there a change is what you choose to read in the winter or after the New Year? Has anyone made any resolutions regarding their reading?

Hi, Marjorie and all - actually another thing that determines my reading is what I find, whether or not I was looking for it.

For example, yesterday I stopped at a local used book store and came home with eight new books. Such joy! I admit, several were strictly escape reading. I haven't done that in a while and felt a need to just, well, escape into an easy-to-read book.

But here's what else - C.S. Lewis's "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" - one of his children's books. I've read quite a few of his "serious" books and he fascinates me. Not easy reading but such gems sprinkled throughout. So, when this particular book jumped out, it seemed like something I'd enjoy.

Also, Pearl Buck's "My Several Worlds". Very late in life I "discovered" her and read all I could - with such a mixed reaction. I can't even remember now the title of the one that left me with the mixed reaction but it seemed to me so amateurish, so trite, so unlike her other treasures. This book looks as if it will be on a par with her best. And I realize how totally arrogant I must sound - calling anything at all by Pearl Buck "amateurish"!

And finally, "Accordian Crimes" by E. Annie Proulx - only because I spied on the cover the name of her other book, "The Shipping News" which I read and loved. Has anyone read this book, "Accordian Crimes"? I don't remember hearing anything about it but I figured if she could have written the other book so well, she should have been able to do as well again. I know, I know - easy for ME to say!

DIANE: You mentioned that there was a book by Pearl Buck that you consider "amateurish." Did you pay any attention to the date it was published? Recently I was reading a very early book by an author I like a great deal, I think it was Barbara Delinsky, and I was VERY disappointed. Then I looked at the date and decided that it was an early work where she was experimenting about how to write a particular scene in different ways. There was none of the character development or suspense of her latest novels. I realized that all authors start somewhere.

C.S. Lewis's "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" is a real favorite and my daughter teaches it every year in 7th grade..

I found the video at the library and it was a fun movie..

Marjorie - at the time it really did bother me and I mentioned it to a friend who volunteered at the library and, if I recall correctly, she read it and agreed that it was not the usual Pearl Buck writing. We did check the date it was published (she wrote so many!) and I think it was either one of her very last books or very first. How's that for memory! It must have been one of her last because we never would have heard of her again if that was how she started out!

Now you've aroused my curiosity - think I'll check and see if I can find the name of that book.

Dianne,

I, too, have had the experience of being very disappointed by the work of a wonderful author, but ususally it has been their first or second effort, and they improved so much as they went along. I look back at WHATEVER I did thirty or forty years ago, and just HOPE that I have improved with age (like wine!)

Isn't it wonderful to go to a bookstore and come home with an armful of treasures?! Unfortunately we no longer have one in our area, so I have to be satisfied with what I can find at any of the five libraries within a twenty minute drive. I do treat myself to a trip to Borders once a month and make my list to get from inter-library loan. And my shelves at home are FULL of books. I AM going to have to stop buying, but I can't--I'm addicted!

Lou Ann, in a way I envy you - no used bookstores to tempt you to bring home still more books. We recently completed a move to a new home 400 miles away and I must say, one of the biggest problems was books. There were just plain too many to take with us but there were very few on the shelves that weren't there because I loved them. Our new home doesn't have nearly the shelf space that we used to (we were downsizing, after all!) and I really still need to get rid of some more. SO! I was really surprised to find myself even IN that store,much less walking out with so many books. And at the same time, I just reserved three more books at the library - and that's all Senior Net's fault - I'd like to get in on the discussions coming up.

No, actually, not surprised at all. Like you, I'm hopelessly addicted. Fun though, isn't it?

There is no addiction like the love of books. lol Right now I have a huge stack out from the library and have sheleves of books waiting to be read. Yet that doesn't stop me from looking at more to read.

Maybe we should start a support group? Except this is an addiction I don't want to be cured of.

Isn't that a neat feeling of wealth GinnyAnn, to be surrounded by unread books that are just waiting for you to open them and begin?

Books bring me comfort. I am especially happy to have choices of what to read next. 'My life would be plain and dull without books. Books bring color to my existence. I for one am not looking for a cure to my addiction. lol

I think the best Pearl Buck title was The Good Earth if I remember correctly. It was a long time ago. I've found that many prolific and popular offers sometimes write one too many books. They've run out of fresh ideas on that last book the publisher demands. First books may not be the best, but they have to show real talent in order to sell another idea to the publisher. Sue

OK, I think I found it. I think "Mandala" was the novel I found unworthy of my otherwise awed impression of Pearl Buck's writing. It took place mainly in India and perhaps the area and culture were not as familiar to her as China. But even considering that I thought the plot and the characters were so inferior to what I had come to expect from her. Funny because in my very fast skimming of the reviews at Amazon.com, at least two found it an inspiring book.

Isn't it strange when two people can read the same book and not see the same things?

Count me in on the addiction status. I have 7 new books that I've ordered sitting atop my book case, one half read on my bedside table, one on the coffee table and one half read on my treadmill. When the library called yesterday to tell me that my book was in my husband just looked at me and shook his head. Hahahah, I love it. The problem is the three that I've got going are all GREAT books and I hate to put any one of the 3 down.

All,

Perhaps the title of this discussion should be changed to: "The Book Addicts Support Group" I probably would be a charter member as I have hundreds of books in my shelves I have not read and am still buying books. Unfortunately, the Good Will has closed its doors. That is where I found many good books at 25 cents to 50 cents a book. So now I have to scrounge around garage sales and the pickings are very lean there unless one likes Harlequin Romance Novels, which I don't. It isn't that I am cheap it is because I am on a retirment that doesn't allow for the purchase of new books.

Tiger Tom

Yes, that is an appropriate name for us! lol I should take another picture of my office. It has many, many books in it at the moment. I am trying to list all of my books in a database titled "Books Owned." Many of the books will be placed in a tub for storage. The list is so I know what books I have, in case someone is looking for it, or I decide to read all of a 'new to me' author's books.

Oh the Book addicts society is me to the tee... I cannot find a new used book store that I do not have to drop in. I am ashamed to tell how many books I have and have not yet read. Just now I am staggering through a huge book on the Mitford sisters, because we will start discussing it on the 1st of February here. It is gigantic and I am ready to read something much lighter.

I added the question Are YOU a Book Addict? to the heading.

I would have to answer "yes" to that question. I can't imagine not having a book to read. And I admit I do read Harlequin Romance novels and find some at garage sales. That is tricky because then I usually pick up some duplicates.

GINNY ANN: I have a list of books I have read and/or have to be read. Now I am making a list of books I have purchased and not yet received. I do most of my book buying on the Internet.

Reading,

You know, in a large part what we read is why we read. Were it not for some types of books I doubt if I would have developed the habit of reading: I loved Science Fiction and Astronomy when I was a boy and devoured all of that type of books I could lay my hands on. Without those books I had little interest in reading. So, as I say, What we read is why we read.

Have been trying to go Cold Turkey on Books. Have resisted buying any books, new or used, for a couple months. Right now I am wrestling with that "Old Debil" Just received the monthly from a book club and it has two books that I am salivating over. I am weakening. If I buy them I will be off and running again. Is there a Book Addict Anonymous (sp) anywhere nearby?

Tiger Tom

Afraid not, Tom. I think most of us feel we would rather live with the addiction than without it! But it sounds as if you are doing great at least in somewhat controlling your yearnings. Any chance the local library has the books you are eagerly awaiting? Or a used version at Amazon.com?

Half.com also has used books. Marjorie has links to other places on the Internet that sells used books. But the best thing is to have a good library. However, as a certified book addict, I like to have my favorites at hand to reread when I feel like it. I have a whole room in my barn with each wall shelved with books as well as paper grocery sacks full in every closet in my house. My late husband was a prolific reader, too, so I have many of the ones he purchased as well. He liked mysteries and westerns and I also read those. I like light popular fiction, romance novels with plots--some don't have a plot, some non-fiction if the topic interests me, and a newspaper every day! Sue

Diane,

I am afraid I am really aflicted. I want to a)own the book and b) is must be a new Hardback. Nothing else will do. Only time I use the Library is for a book that has been suggested to me that I know I would not want as a keeper.

When I was on my uppers and had a very small income then I shopped at the Good Will. I still usually found books in very good condition. Those books generally came out of the home of someone who had loved books but now passed on and the person's relatives simply got rid of them by donating them to the Good Will. A fate that I hope will not befall my books. My Daughter loves books but has little room in her home. I would love for my Grandson to eventually inherit my books but I have no way of knowing if he will want them. His mother reads to him daily and he enjoys that but he is only three so things can change.

Tiger Tom

I can't buy new books any more. My daughter who is a young mum of 2 is in the same boat so we have found a second hand bookstore which is a real treasure. Books are very expensive here as they are published in either Britain or USA and you can imagine the price they are with the exchange rate. Sometimes I get money for birthday presents and I will stretch out for a book if it is for one of the discussions but mostly I have to try second hand and the library. I like to share my books with others but sometimes they don't come back that is disappointing. I have a lending library here for the grandchildren of second hand childrens books or books I get from sales. They love to borrow "grannys books". I get them to read books they otherwise would not choose themselves. I buy the discharged library books for the kids at around 50c each. I have some really beautiful books in the collection.

Carolyn

Carolyn, your idea of a children's lending library for your grands is a wonderful idea. If my grandsons lived closer, I'd give it a try. I do keep books here for them, some from my sons' childhoods. They usually bring a book or two in their suitcases when they visit me here or at the beach. I always give them a new book for Christmas and on birthdays. It's so important for children to see the adults in their lives enjoying reading. Sue

This discussion has been very interesting.

I prepared a post but my browser kept saying me "site not found" when I tried to post it. I will try to remember what I posted.

I don't get to bookstores, new or used, or the library much anymore. I do buy books from eBay and half.com. However, I have such a large stack of books I haven't even read the first time, I have been trying not to buy too many to add to the stack.

My used Harlequin romances I give to the Friends of the Library. Other books that I have I either put on the Book Exchange or save to read 2 or 3 times.

Springcreek,

Good that you give you Grandkids Books.

When I was a boy my family rarely saw me without a book in my hands. However, I never got a book for either Christmas or a Birthday. I was in my mid 40's before I got a book as a gift from my family and then one Christmas I received a bunch of them. Found out that Waldens had a sale of really cheap books and that was the reason.

Tiger Tom

Tom, my favorite gifts to give and to receive are books. I don't give my sons books now as they all live too far away for me to know what they have, but that was always included in birthday and Christmas gifts from me. They are all 3 lifetime readers. My husband and the boys gave me other kinds of gifts, but always managed to include a book or two on special occasions. Now one of my daughters-in-law gives me a gift certificate to Amazon.com as part of their Christmas gift to me. I appreciate that more than almost any other gift. Sue

I didn't receive books as gifts very often. However, recently I did get a gift certificate to Barnes & Noble and that was a lot of fun to use.

Have just subbed here. I read many books, both fiction and non-fiction. Aside from the few which I want to buy to keep, I get all my books via my public library, which is free. I read non-fiction for information and knowledge, and fiction for entertainment, and sometimes, escape, when the world's problems depress me too much. I enjoy mysteries, and am quite good at figuring out who the murderer is before the end of the book. At present, I'm reading Lost Man's River, which is also offering a wealth of knowledge about the Florida Everglades. I have put both The Mitford Sisters and a Lesson Before Dying on reserve at my local library, so will start reading one or both of them as soon as they notify me they're at the library.

Bobbie

BOBBIE: Welcome to our discussion. You sound like someone who has lots of interests since you read many different types of books. Do you like all of them equally?

Marjorie...Probably my favourites are Mysteries, especially British ones. I also love sagas, especially when they include history, which also interests me. I go to the library every 3-4 weeks and take out a minimum of 10 books at a time. Included in those are at least 2 non-fiction books, as I feel it's important to keep learning and adding to my knowledge. Since the librarians know me, they often suggest other books that I might enjoy. I go to my local branch but have access to books from the main library and any other sub-branches. In addition, synopses of a wide range of books is available via their URL on the net, and I can reserve books via the net as well. Reading is my way of relaxing. Because my husband is deceased and my kids are in their 30's, I live alone, so this allows me to read during meals.<g> My interests include international issues, and to this end, I read newspapers from all over the world daily. It helps having cablenet as I have immediate access to all these papers, with no download waiting time. I'm also interested in archeology. In my lifetime, I have taken many round the world trips, and have visited most of the world, and studied the history, culture, etc of all those nations. I now prefer to make shorter trips, in my country and NZ. Closer to home, my leisure activities include bushwalking (hiking), camping, cycling (mountain bike), gardening, politics (international and national). I'm also active in National Seniors, RSL and my political party. I play three musical instruments, flute, guitar, piano. I am mostly retired but still do some contract work with my previous employer, plus private appointments, mostly focussed on helping women find themselves and their spirituality.

Bobbie

BOBBIE: It is a pleasure to meet such a busy, vibrant, interesting woman. What a blessing SeniorNet provides every day. We would never have met otherwise.

Thank you. I feel it's necessary to stay alive, active, and always learning and gaining in knowledge. To me, that's the difference between a Golden Journey in our senior years. In fact, quarterly, I run a seminar called the Golden Journey, for seniors....so, I have to practice what I preach, eh?<g>

Bobbie

Bobbie, A woman of many talents. Glad to make your acquaintance.. I never met a book I didnt like, so my addiction includes many types of books. We travel a lot, but have recently decided to stay on the ground for the next few years. Bought a 5th wheel ( type of travel trailer) and a truck and hope to see most of the US . A different type of travel for us, but we hope to enjoy it..The flying thing got older and older with the new security.. The problem with extra security is the type of people they hire.. Just once too many, I watched all my clothes, pills and cosmetics be turned into a mixmaster by some overenthusiastic searcher.. Spare me..

Thanks, Stephanie. It sounds like we have the same love of books. I'll bet, like me, you enjoy the 'good' writers, which is not necessarily the popular writers. I get a real thrill from reading what I call 'word paintings.' In fact, now that I'm mostly retired, I spend time writing poems and practicing my own 'word paintings.' It's a nice change from the very cold and objective reports I've always had to write for work, as a Psychologist. The fields I've worked in were Adoptions, Family Law and Corrections. So, you can see why I enjoy 'word paintings' in retirement.<g>

I can understand your changing directions in re travel. I've done the same thing. I took all my round the world trips all during my working years, and earlier, with my parents, who were also very international people. My last trip overseas was in 1996, when I went to the US when Mum was dying, then took another 6 weeks touring Britain and Europe for the last time. Like you, I am now restricting my travels to mostly my country, but also plan to take 2 more trips to New Zealand, which is just across 'The Ditch' (Tasman Sea) from where I live. I may take another trip to Vanuatu and Fiji, as both are close and there are regular special deals. Aside from that, I want to revisit Australia. My next trip will be down to Victoria, to visit friends. Instead of flying, I think I'll drive, stopping along the way to visit National Parks in NSW. It's a 12 hour drive from just Brisbane to Sydney. I'd like to have my own vehicle, as I'll be visiting in Bega (the south coast of Victoria), Geelong and Ballarat, as well as an epal who lives north of Sydney.

I take it a 5th wheel is a large house trailer, what we call a caravan? Your idea of travelling the US sounds good, similar to what I'm doing here. I have a tent trailer (4x6 trailer that pulls out into a tent, with the mattress on the trailer bed). I, and most Aussies, have always been a tent camper, so the tent trailer is, for me, getting away from 'true' camping, but wise when one starts to have trouble getting up from a swag on the floor of a tent.<g> The tent trailer was my retirement present to myself. I keep all my camping gear in the trailer, so it also makes it easier to take off...just pack clothes, and food in the esky and plastic container, and take off. I have a small 4D (4wh) and my tent trailer is off-road, so I go to camping areas where I'm well and truly in the bush, usually at the edge of the rainforest, but at other times on the beach.

In re security, I've heard the problems about the type of people they hire. I can understand your concern. Actually, before security was tightened there, I used to feel uncomfortable with the lack of security at US airports. We have always had much tougher security here....ie one has always had to go through 2 levels of security here, just to get into the airport proper to greet arrivals, etc. I'm pleased that I did all my world travels when I was younger, when travel was safer, and when I had the energy to manage jet lags and continual touring after arriving at my destinations.

In re books, when I read the book from another country, I have my atlas to hand, and also read up on that country and the area via my encyclopaedias and now, the internet. The wonderful thing is that I've visited most of the locations in the past, so can really visualise them.

Bobbie

If you like a good mystery, I can recommend J. A. Jance's Kiss of the Bees. I stayed up until 4:00 a.m. last night to finish it. It has murder and Indian legends to make a really spooky story. I couldn't put it down. Sue

Is this a new J.A.Jance book? About the woman sheriff in Arizona? I didn't know she had a new one out. Both her series are great!

Another good mystery writer with two series is Dana Stabenow. Her stories are set in Alaska.

I read fiction during the day, but find at night that I revert back to biographies.. I love a good one, but so many times nowadays the author intrudes their own personality and then I tend to put the book down and forget about it. Margaret Truman wrote very movingly about both of her parents. If you like a love story and some politics,, try either of the books.

Ginny hope you pop in here! I am just reading the Peppered Moth another Drabble novel. Yes and guess what? Another inadequate mother (in her daughters opinion) and a desire for intellectual excellence by the daughter! Crikey thats the third one on a similar theme!

Hi Bobbie and everyone else!

Carolyn

G'day, cuz....Thanks for sending us some of your rain, cobber. Send any excess over the Ditch....anytime. 5th day of monsoonal trough. Bonza, eh?

)) Good book reading weather, that's my excuse anyway.<g>

Bobbie

Mary Z: Kiss of the Bees is not a J.P. Beaumont or Joanna Brady mystery. It was published in 2000, so is not new either. It is about a family in Tucson, Arizona. The mother is a Pulitzer prize winner--for a book in which she collaborates with a serial murderer who raped her. She blinded him and he was sent to prison where he died. The father was the sheriff but lost his job in the election following the crime. Lots of angst in this book and very spooky. Sue

Thanks, SpringcreekFarms. I remember that one now. And, of course, the names of her protagonists had escaped me for the moment. 8^)

I read your information and see that you live in SE Alabama. We're down your way every summer. We rent a house in Fort Morgan. Started in Gulf Shores in 1981, and eventually started renting farther out in Fort Morgan. Great beaches, but shhhhhhh, let's don't tell anybody - just keep it for ourselves.

MaryZ, I also love Gulf Shores and Orange Beach. I don't usually go during the summer, though. Too many people and higher rental fees. We vacation there every Thanksgiving week in a mini family reunion, go again before spring break, go in August after Alabama schools start, even in September or October if we can get away. Last year I did take my grandsons down during July 4th week, but that's not my usual pattern. I probably won't go this spring as I am taking the grandsons on a train trip from New Orleans to San Antonio. We've never stayed out at Fort Morgan. I'm glad to hear that you enjoy it there. The area is one of Alabama's jewels. Sue

Hey, Everybody!!

No kidding, Carolyn! ahahah ANOTHER dysfunctional mother/ daughter thing, huh? Now where does this come from, one wonders? hahahaha, thank you for letting us know about that continuing theme in Drabble's works.

To me to finish a book is like almost....I dunno, I have to have another one waiting, maybe several other ones because you never know, do you, what your own taste will want? Just the sight of them stacked up waiting is such a joy, it's almost like having food in the refrigerator.

I guess I AM an addict, but I can't think of a finer thing to be addicted to, it improves the mind and extends your horizons, I've got SOOO many new ones, it's almmost like eating candy there they are just waiting, and just lOOK we here can meet and chat over books, what else might you want?

I guess I'm getting fragmented tho as I age, I notice that my husband's screaming football or basketball games cause me not to be able to concentrate on a book? In the past I could read in the midst of anything, any noise, but now I can't, I hope this is not a bad sign, I need quiet so I can concentrate. That's new, I hope it's not a bad thing.

How quiet does it have to be for you all need to read?

If you read The Painted House, by the way I understand it will be a Hallmark Hall of Fame presentation, I THINK, Judy Laird mentioned it to me first, on February 27, I may have that date wrong, but do check for it, we read it here as a book club, it might be intersting to see it presented.

ginny

Are you talking about discussing John Grisham's A Painted House? I have it on one of my TBR shelves. So if you decide to discuss it, I will be ready.

GinnyAnn, I think it was discussed last year. The discussion is probably in the archives. Sue

Ginny Ann!! THERE you are, I was looking for you in Julius!!! new book you really want to try. We already did Painted House last year, you may want to watch the Hallmark thing...I wonder before or after, (do you like to watch film before or after the book?)

We had a super discussion, I'm so sorry you missed it, it was fun.

ginny

I haven't read A Painted House, yet. I like reading the book before seeing the movie. As it has been said, "Never judge a book by its movie."

Here is the link to the archived discussion of Painted House.

Ginny, I can read a novel with extraneous noise, but need quiet when reading non-fiction and concentrating on learning something new. It comes with our age. You need to have a quiet room at the back of the house, sounds like..

Bobbie

I notice there is no activity in the Great Books upcoming discussion. How so?

Carolyn

Carolyn: Madame Bovary is up for discussion as is Julius Caeser. Aren't they in the Great Books category here, I'm not sure?

Kiwi lady (I notice there is no activity in the Great Books upcoming discussion. How so?)

Carolyn

Upcoming discussion are on the boards to get a qurum in order to actually start the discussion, If there are not enought people saying that they will discuss the discussion is postponed or not done. I think a book discussion needs three or more to make it a go. The book is not discussed much to allow time to get the book.

I do hope I have answered Your question to your satisfaction if not please explain a bit more. Ginger

Carolyn...Marjorie told me of your question regarding the Great Books series - I posted to you in the discussion where decisions are voted upon. (We VOTE in there when we are poised to mount a discussion, Ginger. That's how Great Books arrives at each selection)...and Andy has explained that Julius Caesar and Madame Bovary are coming up and we thought we'd better not go so heavy on the classics/Great Books all at once. So. You are invited to join in either of these discussions, as the header in the Great Books Upcoming discussion tells you...and don't worry - YOU and everyone else will hear about it once we get active in the nomination process. You are a super contributor in there and we look forward to hearing from you. And thanks for asking.

I am already enrolled in the Shakespeare's Julius Caesar discussion and have my book and I am ready to roll! I have two discussions for March in which I will participate - Julius Caesar and Abraham that a lovely lady from SN has purchased for me and its on its way winging across the world from Barnes and Noble! Such memories I have on my bookshelf. If I can obtain any of the books for myself that we discuss I do and each book has special memories of the people who participated in the discussion and their view of the book and so much more! I note inside the cover what month and year the discussion was held. A bookshelf rapidly filling with memories!

Carolyn

Hi all,

What an interesting twist the discussion has taken! I haven't check in for a couple of weeks because we left for Fla. just after my last post. Yes, I am addicted to books and reading. My husband thinks I am truly ill! So glad to hear that so many others share this illness! I have books ALL OVER the house, in stacks as well as bookcases. And I still can't stay out of libraries and bookstores! I read fiction (mysteries, historical fiction and young adult) and biographies, essays, etc. Have at least two going at all times.

I too have to have it absolutely quiet in order to read, to truly sink into a book. Consequently, my husband and I do not share the same room very often as he is a tv watcher. Every once in a while I feel guilty and come into the room where the television is and just hope that there is something on that will interest me enough to make me stay!

CAROLYN (kiwi lady): Thank you for sharing about the books you have and your memories of our discussions. I like the image of books on your shelf with the dates of our discussions inside them.

LOU ANN: Another book addict to add to the group! What fun!

Carolyn - I ditto Marjorie in enjoying the thought of your books with notes on the discussions inside. This seems like double-pleasure! Nice idea.

Yup, Lou Ann, you are certainly one of us! I wish they built in more bookcases - it would make life a little easier. Back east, if memory serves, houses were much more apt to have them built in. Can one conclude that easterners are more avid readers than westerners? Hmmm.

When we moved to our new house we also had to buy new bedroom furniture and my biggest concern was finding bedside tables that were big enough to hold a good supply of books being read plus plenty of room for storage for more underneath. Well, I thought we did pretty well on that score but guess what - surfaces are already overflowing and my husband is wanting me to clear off the surfaces. Well, easy for HIM to say! As soon as I take a book away to clear a little space, that's the book I want to read when I settle in for the evening. And having a quantity to choose from is essential, right?

I have the same problem with a TV-addicted husband. It's very difficult for me to concentrate consistently with that thing blaring away. I've wondered if earplugs would help? And I also sometimes force myself to join him just for the "togetherness" of it.

We went through a spell when I was reading aloud to him and he actually seemed to like it. I thought maybe, just maybe, he would "catch" the bug and take it up himself but, no. Didn't happen. In his behalf I will say that a failed cataract operation was a legitimate reason for him to not do much reading himself. And still is. Reflecting back on that time, it did slow me down, reading aloud, but it was worth it in shared laughs, opinions, discussions, etc. I still hope that I can entice him again with promises of a good, shared read.

My stepfather will listen to audio books with my Mum over breakfast and dinner. Can you get these from your library? Stepfather has listened to books he would never have chosen himself and thoroughly enjoyed them.

Carolyn

When I'm reading, I'm in another world and nothing penetrates. My reading chair is about 10 ft. from the T.V., Mike watches T.V. every evening but if I'm into a really good book I don't even realize its on. In our small apt. there isn't any place else to read except bed, and of course if I lay down to read I fall asleep. When my kids were growing up they often had to jump up and down or yell in my ear to get my attention if I was reading, They all grew up exactly like me, with a love of reading and the ability to tune everything else out. Barb

For years I was unable to read I led such a busy life. Four children, demanding occupations, our sailing and me crewing! Now I am on my own not through choice but through widowhood one of my consolations has been being able to read. There is only me to consider- I can even prop up my book and read at table!

Carolyn

Gram.. I too read anywhere and am not distracted. My husband is a tv fanatic and I read and work on the computer in the same room with no problems. I laughed at your description of your children, because mine always complained they had to get right up to me and wiggle the book for me to notice.. Still they all read, so I guess I set some sort of example.

Although I find it difficult to read in the same room when the television is on, I sometimes attempt it. I tried earplugs, but my hearing is so acute, that they didn't really help. In my husband's defense, he has double vision, so of course, that makes it difficult for him to read. When we travel together we enjoy audio books very much, although I have to take care to select something that he would enjoy, and it ususally is not something that I would pick for myself. Have had some good surprises that way!

My sons are all prolific readers and I attribute it to the amount of reading that both Bob and I did. I can read while television is going. If it's a program I like (not many of those) I put a marker in during the program and read during commercials.

Our family had such a reputation for reading that when we would run into old Navy friends during vacation or after a move that we would be asked if we still had piles of books sitting around in our living room! I still have piles of books in every room as well as bags sitting in closets to reread or take to the trading book store. I even have a room in my barn that is full of books. There's only room in there to step around so that I can look at the shelves and into the many boxes. Sue

Good Morning All - I'm posting from rainy Maryland. Your posts remind me of my own avid interest in reading. I just packed away several journals I began when I was 4 years old - I'm 60 now! I've enjoyed reading and writing all my life. My husband is a professor of literature, so he's got as many books as I do. When he's in Maryland, he buys shelves of books from our Book Sale in the area Library, rummages through them and then packs them for shipment to his university students in Egypt. Several of those students have sent questions back with him. One in particular was intriguing: Madame, do you REALLY know Little Red Riding Hood personally?" I told my husband he had to stop exaggerating. (He'd given the book to his student for a child in the student's family.)

Like many of you, I have books nearby wherever I am in the house, when I travel it's always with a book in hand. Yes, I enjoy the Internet, but there is nothing like a book in the hand!

MAHLIA: I was delighted with the chuckle that escaped as I read your post ("Madame, do you REALLY know Little Red Riding Hood personally?"). I am glad to hear that all those books find new homes where they are being enjoyed and the library gets the income.

Does anyone else have ideas for what to do with books that you have read and don't want to keep so that they can continue to be enjoyed?

Marjorie, I have no idea what to do with my excess books--I have such a hard time even thinking about getting rid of them.

Actually, Mahlia, I do personally know Little Red Riding Hood as well as Snow White, Rose Red, Cinderella, Stuart Little, Ramona Quimby, and on and on and on. At least it seems that these beloved stories are lifetime friends. They may not know me personally, but I have treasured their friendship for many years! Sue

Sue, have you heard of Book Crossing?

http://www.bookcrossing.com/

I haven't done it (or found any), but it sounds like a great way to pass on books to other readers. And, of course, SeniorNet has a book exchange, too.

Plus any retirement complex or Senior Center would probably be delighted to receive any books you'd care to pass along.

These are all good ideas, Mary Z. Thanks for the link to Book Crossing. My problem is deciding what to get rid of--especially since I'm not that anxious to give them away. I do reread lots of them. Sue

I certainly understand that. We have passed books on from time to time, but it's SO very hard. And we do keep those special favorites. Unfortunately, we sometimes take them to the used book store to exchange them for credit to get "new" books. Sighhhhhhhhh

I trade some in and get more at our used book store, too, Mary. I have also requested books from the SeniorNet book exchange, but have never posted any there. I don't live near a post office and it would not be easy to send them out. However, it is very easy to go to the mailbox and pick one up that has been sent to me by a SeniorNetter. I usually start reading it immediately and most always finish it the same day or the next. Sue

Does your local library ever have book sales? Ours does, and they ask for donations. I'll bet they'd even come to your house to pick up a box or two.

Just finished "Angry Housewives Eating Bon Bons" by Lorna Landvik. The book is about housewives living in the same neighborhood. They met on a regular basis to discuss a chosen book. Most chapters are headed by a chosen book's title along with a short explanation of why the book was chosen.

Among the women, over the decades, problems or conflicts of every strip crops up. All conflicts are resolved in some fashion by the women themselves as they are willing to listen to each other. Proximity and time knit this group together in a very special way. They don't always get along, sometimes they avoid each other, sometimes they don't come to meetings. But, their love of reading along with group discussion pulls them back to the group and binds them together.

Showdog,

My library owns this book, Future Housewives eating Bon Bons. I put it on hold. Thanks for the title.

I've not read this one, but did read another Lorna Landvik last year. It was a hoot, but also very poignant three hanky ending. I'm sorry I can't remember the name of this book, but will do a search here. I may have mentioned it when I read it. Sue

Edit: The one I read was Patty Jane's House of Curl. I recommend it as a good read. I'll be on the lookout for Future Housewives Eating Bon Bons. That's an intriguing title--I've always wanted to spend my time reading and eating bon bons!

I didn't connect the author's name (Lorna Landvik)to one of my favorite recent reads. The Tall Pine Polka. At Christmas I gave a copy of one of her other books to a friend of mine who had really liked The Tall Pine Polka.

So many good reads so little time.

My daughter belongs to a book group of young professional mothers. They discuss all sorts of topics and have become good friends. They only meet monthly.

Our library service is beginning a book club. I have put my name down.

Carolyn

That sounds interesting, Carolyn. I belong to a literary club, but we don't often all read the same book and discuss it, although we did just that several times last year. Each month we have a discussion leader who is assigned a topic. She then reads the book and gives a review to the club. I don't feel this way is as interesting as the interactive book club, but this is what is available to me in our small community.

I'd also like to own and operate a used book store. I'd love to be surrounded by books every day. However, I don't think I'd like the bookkeeping chores. Sue

Love Lorna Landvik... Will look for the new one.

Ladies,

While you are not posting, I feel certain that you are still reading.

It is Spring, come alive, brighten up this discussion by posting even if it is just a chatty little item.

Tiger Tom

Of course I am still reading. Reading to me is like breathing. It is something I do because I need to; just like I need oxygen to breathe, I need books to fill my mind with information to broaden my thinking.

It is not important what I read. It is important that I read.

Yes I am addicted to books. And yes I am proud of this addiction!

Tiger, we are all reading.. Just because we dont post.. means nothing. I have been working on the Blue Wizards latest game.. It is a stinker, so I have been researching people who write about Egypt or Thomas Hoving..and have a profession they have never practiced.. etc. etc.

Wow, I'm impressed, Stephanie. That's a tough game. I lurk a little, but just can't seem to keep up.

I've been reading lots as usual, just finished the Sunday paper. A good book recently read is Norah Roberts' Three Fates. It has a mystery, intrigue, and of course, romance. The settings are New York, Ireland, and Poland. Pretty interesting if you like this sort of book. Sue

What (or where) is the "Blue Wizard's" game?

I am reading a lot of Indian Authors lately. One I have right now is called Anita and me by Meera Syal. Its about an Indian child growing up in England and having to live between two worlds. She begins to be ashamed of her old fashioned Aunties and having to eat ethnic food at home.

Carolyn

Mary, I think Stephanie is referring to the Name That Book Contest, presided over by the Book Wizard, now, I think in it's 5th week, the guessed authors are in the heading and nobody has it yet. If he gets through the 7th week he wins, and the Contestants don't want that (call themselves the Fizzers for their ides of what they'd like to do to him, he's kind of...well, you have to see it for yourself).

We have a lot of super games going on, we have a new one Last Man Standing, which has gone thru My Country Tis of Thee, very fun, one word at a time, who can give the last word, Amazing Grace, and is now in Wordsworth's I wandered lonely as a cloud. It's fun and mind challenging.

If you look up in the heading here you will see a Green Link to the left of the red words on the bottom: Are YOU a Book Addict?

If you click on that link it will show you the entire Books Menu here and if you scroll all the way down you'll find something like 5 fun games to play and enjoy.

I don't know why I read but I'm in one now I just love, several things in it clicked with me and my own experience, I'm hoping that an answer will be there, I expect we read for all sorts of reasons, really, but I have literally stacks of books waiting and have started 4 of them and they're ALL good, I can't believe it, that's sooo rare.

The "between books" feeling is a definite downer, isn't it?

ginny

What else are you reading, Ginny?

Kiwi, I too find myself reading a lot by Indian authors. I'm reading Family Matters, Rohinton Mistry's latest, and am enjoying it a lot. I loved his book A Fine Balance.

I've got a bunch of them. I just finished Tenure Track which I just loved. Have started All is Vanity by Christina Schzarz which is a hoot, I just love it, it's soo Rachel Cuskish, really really good. I'm reading The Purpose Driven Life which is just extraordinary I wiah I had read it a long time ago, it's meditations on the purpose of life, I love it,

I've started and very much like Captain Saturday, it's marvelous fiction, I love the tone of the book, a tv weatherman and his perfect life unravel,

I'm reading fitfullly South by Ernest Shackleton, it's good but only a few pages at a time, about his exploration; Madame Bovary, the first 59 pages for this week's discussion. I finished In Ruins by Christopher Woodward, not as good as I expected and I love ruins. I've been also reading Cards of Identity, which you recommended, I love it but had to put it down for Caesar so need to pick it back up after some of these, and a strange book, The Psalms of David, the Freemantle edition? This son took a set of illuminated pages of the Psalms that his father did as a present to their mother? They lived in India and he illustrated it with things they had seen, at first it put me off, it was difficult to read but now I love it, quite a gift of love I think, it's extraordinary, my son and DIL gave it to me for Christmas.

I love Indian books, but have not read any Mistry, What else have you been reading?

ginny

Most of the books I read are by American writers. However I am now making a point of reading books by writers who originate from other countries. "Jasmine" by Bharati Mukherjee is one such book. The book is about a woman who travels from India to New York to Iowa to California. She intends to escape an early prediction of "widowhood and exile." Nevertheless she becomes a widow and forever is in exile. There is no safe place, even corn country (she links Iowa to "safe place to live") proves dangerous and unsafe. By the end of Jasmine's story, it becomes easy for her to pack up what she needs; leave all she has learned to love; and not look behind. She may not escape suffering and pain; but that does not mean she is not successful in escaping the astrologer's prediction. She is successful because her life is not only of "widowhood and exile", it is one of establishing new relationships and in the process renewing life.

I have also in the last year or so read a few Chinese authors enjoyed them very much. I now have The Middle Heart by Bette Bao Lord who also wrote Spring Moon. I think I am fascinated by the Chinese perspective on life in general.

Carolyn

All,

I am not reading any right now but I sure am busy shifting books around:

Got tired of all the books on the floor so I am trying to get all of my books shelved by subject.

I have been donating a number to the Library for their Book Sale so I can free up some space.

One problem: some of the books are tall and heavy and my book shelves have only one shelf in each book case that will hold that size book. They are already jammed. SIGH

Tiger Tom

Tom, can you lay those oversized book on their sides? I have to do that, too, and while I'd rather they fit in the normal way, at least I can keep them on the shelves.

Has anyone any idea why some book titles read from the top down, and others from the bottom up when they are shelved? You'd think there would be a universal way to print them. Drives me crazy if there's a big mixture, bobbing my head and neck around to be able to read.

I just picked up at the library "The Lovely Bones", strictly because of what I read about it here on SN. Not in time to join in on the discussion but it does look interesting. Same thing happened with "Life of Pi" which I loved but missed out on the discussion. I hear of a lot of books on SN that I eventually read. It's a wonderful benefit.

I also picked up "My Lucky Stroke" by Kirk Douglas. He'd mentioned it during an interview recently and it seemed that he shared some stroke residuals with my husband (although thankfully my husband's are much milder). This will be a fast read but a nice diversion from some of the heavier stuff I've been reading lately (mostly health-oriented).

Oh, the other book I picked up is "Hey, Waitress!", by Alison Owings. Pretty obvious, I guess, what it's going to be about. I was interested because of having read "Nickel and Dimed to Death in America" (is that title approximately right?) which was yet another I knew about from SN posts/discussions. It only seems right to know as much about people and their daily lives, as we can, especially if we deal with them frequently. We usually become friendly with waitresses that we see regularly but I bet there are things we don't know that we SHOULD know but just don't stop to think of. I'll let you know...

Shifting Books.

Didn't get too far. Like looking in a Dictionary or Encyclopedia, I found something interesting to look at (books I hadn't seen in some time but had intended to read eventually)and time just got away from me.

So, today, maybe I will get a few more moved. IF I don't stumble across other books that catch my eye and I find my self sitting in the easy chair reading again.

Tiger Tom

The waitress books sounds interesting. Like a good many others I waitressed in high school and college summers. Best money around and pretty good hours as well. Still for life.. whew.. your feet would take a true beating.

Your stated interest in Chinese authors prompted me to post. I just picked up two books by Da Chen, Colors of the Mountain and Sounds of the River. I haven't read them but I expect I will enjoy them very much. The reason I mention this is that I saw Da Chen on Book Events TV some weeks ago. I understood him to say that reading is what saved him from a life of poverty in China. For sure he holds reading in high regard and highly recommends it.

Diane - re some book titles reading from top-to-bottom and others from bottom-to-top...I heard somewhere that books that are published in the U.S. are from top-to-bottom, and those published in the U.K. are bottom-to-top. I don't know if that's true or not, though. Sounds like as good an explanation as any, but I haven't actually checked it out. 8^)

MaryZ - what an interesting explanation! Guess now I'll have to check it out. If that IS the answer, I wonder if it was done on purpose?

MaryZ,

Could be right. We do drive on the opposite of the road, Spell many words differently: Curb, Kerb, Color Colour, etc. So, why not a difference in the way the title on the spine reads?

Tiger Tom

Any of you with lots of books to give away might also like (I just did this past week) to consider donating them to our wonderful Book Exchange. I'm on a clearing out of the house jag!

It's a bit more work, the mailing out, but it sure is a nice service, we've had more than 2,500 books sent off to new homes and waiting arms, you all might like to try that?

Dianne, what a nice thing to say, I agree with you, I get some super ideas here in the Books, books I would never have ever heard of.

Tom, I read in the Political folder that you lived in Tunis for 2 years? I really would like to hear of your experiences there, is there any way we could somehow read a book on the area or Out of Africa or even one of the Kenya books and hear your story? I have a million questions, I really would enjoy that?

Did you see Timgad? Have always wanted to see Timgad.

ginny

Ginny,

Too late, I donated 15 bags of books to the Friends of the Library Book sale. Two shelves of Antropology texts, some Novels, Biographies, odds and ends.

Tunisia: You must remember, I was working while there. Didn't have much time to travel and since I was one of the "Essential Personel" I was pretty much confined to the Tunis area. It was often a six day week for us. So, no, there is much in Tunisia that I wished I had seen but was unable to do so.

Ginny, in the Foreign Service of the U.S. in some countries being in a official capacity the members of the Embassy staff (or Consulate as the case may be) would be confined to a 25 miles radius of the Capital city. Tourists and Business types could travel freely around the country but we could not. One could ask for official permission to travel to certain sites but that took a while and a good deal of red tape, just to be irritating. When in China a group of us traveled from shenyang to Beijing to see the Great Wall, got permission to go to it and was held up for a half hour by a private in the Chinese Army (who had an Ak-47 which we didn't want to argue with.) It took much talking to convince him that our documentation was real before he let go on.

So, I cannot tell you much about Tunisia other than a bit of Carthage and the museum there.

Tiger Tom

Tom its different in China now. Much easier to travel all over.

Carolyn

Kiwi Lady,

It was easy to travel in China when I was there.

It still is not easy for Embassy people to travel in China. They still need official permission to travel outside cities or the 25 mile radius of a city. Chinese think that there are "Spooks" (Cia types) working in the Embassy or that one of the Officers of the Embassy may see something he/she will report back to Washington. So, while a tourist can travel easily in China an Embassy type cannot. You will find that this applies to people from the New Zealand Embassy in China too.

Tiger Tom

Tom the average Kiwi can go anywhere in China now. I am not sure about the diplomatic staff. We do have very good relations with China and they don't perceive our tiny country as a threat. Also there are some NZers who have played a big humanitarian role in Chinas History such as Rewi Alley. Maybe its different because of where we are and our close economic and educational and cultural ties with China. We have a very relaxed relationship with China. Many Chinese send their kids here to be educated. My sister had the son of an important Government official living with her for two years. He was a delightful boy- my sister has been invited to his wedding in China. He calls her Mother Jenny and my BIL is Father Graham. We don't perceive China as a threat to us here. We do have a problem with too many Mainland Chinese and other Asians wanting to emigrate to NZ. It is tipping the balance of our population and we feel that 15% in our main City is enough of a cultural diversity. We would like some more European Immigrants as well. I think one of the Canadian cities has the same problem I think its Vancouver.

Carolyn

Carolyn....so can the average Aussie travel in China freely. I have several friends who have visited China in the past year, and a friend who spent 2 years teaching in China and, as you know, returned several months ago.

Bobbie

Kiwi, Bobbiecee,

The Average Chinese can travel easily in the U.S. too. However, the Chinese Embassy Staff CANNOT. It is done because the Chinese restrict our Embassy Staff in their travel in China.

Games, but that is what is done between governments.

NZ and Aussie tourists, business people, etc can travel freely in China. That does NOT mean they are not watched, especailly News Media Types. Just that they are able to travel more freely than official Embassy or Military types. This applies equally to the personnel of your Governments in China.

Do NOT confuse travel by ordinary people with travel by official Government types of any Western Nation in China. The Chinese have a few things they don't want others to see or know about and so does the U.S. You would be amazed at the lengths both governments go to at times to circumvent those travel restrictions. It can be dangerous for anyone who does not have Diplomatic Immunity as they can be picked up and thrown in to the slammer and not heard of again for being in a restricted area or even taking photographs of an Airport from a Plane or on the ground. If one has Diplomatic Immunity, the Government (let us say China in this case) has to notify the Government of the person with the Diplomatic Immunity within 24 hours that the person is being held and then the (Chinese) will have to release the person with the Diplimatic Immunity and declare him not wanted and booted out of the country.

Tiger Tom

Tom.....I realise that there is a difference between 'diplomatic' people and others. Embassy people, of all countries, are usually spies. It was only recently that I became aware that a similar thing was happening in the US. There was a young Aussie who overstayed her visa by one day. She was arrested and thrown into a horrible jail in Texas......and they kept her there, like she was a spy or something worse. Fortunately, a friend contacted her mother who made a continual noise. She wasn't even allowed a phone call to her mother for a week, and then, only when our govt pressured for that. Then, they still weren't going to release her. It was a huge incident that went on and on until they finally released her. My feeling is that they wouldn't if her mother and our govt didn't keep up the pressure. Most young Aussies travel the world...and older ones as well. However, young Aussies are now tending to travel through Canada rather than the US since that incident. Frightening, and a shame. I'm glad I've done all my world travel...a number of round the world tickets. My overseas travel will now be restricted to NZ and Vanuatu.

Bobbie

Bobbie

Bobbiecee,

I suspect that there may have more to the incident than that. The atmosphere here in the U.S. since the new head of the Justice Department came in is paranoid. Since lots and lots of people overstay their Visas, most third world types on purpose, I am surprised that an Aussie would be detained for something like that. Since I don't know the circumstances I cannot comment on it. It does, however, sound strange.

Tiger Tom

Tom....there's been a lot of follow-up info, and that was the situation, nothing else. I don't think the same would have happened if she'd gotten to California, which was where she was headed...LA, then back to Australia....and was a day late. Instead it was Texas, a different type of justice there. She had just graduated from high school and was doing what many Aussie kids do after graduation, and before starting Uni, travel the world on a round-the-world ticket. She definitely was NOT a spy, or suspicious person. Rampant paranoia.

Bobbie

Bobiecee,

It could have been simply because she was a "furriner" Those people in Texas can be awfuly insular and unfriendly to "Outsiders"

Tiger Tom

I have just been told I am "Too English" and they wish I would "stop being so damned English" in the Pollie folders. I am a kiwi so figure that one out. Perhaps the posters are Texans and I am too furrin! LOL

Carolyn

Kiwi Lady,

I have an idea that those who are saying that haven't been to England nor do they know many if any English.

You don't sound English to me. I lived in London for two wonderful years. I met a number of New Zealand and Aussie people. Liked them. Of course that may have been because I like most everyone I meet if given a chance.

I wouldn't let it get to you, just consider the source and go from there.

Tiger Tom

It would seem to me that this is not a good time to overstay a visa in the US.. We simply have had too many things happen in the past few years to be happy about this. Texas is a large state with many types of people.. I hate to see an area run down for reasons that are ambiguous at best. We simply do not know what she was doing when she was jailed... I also remember that at one time, Australia did not have a good reputation for wanting immigrants of any shade other than white.. Now they are much more hospitable, but in the mid 50's, we were considering emigration and I remember that they made it clear we were welcome but that ethnics need not apply.

TOM....could be because she was a 'furriner'....I'm aware that they're a bit different, are insular and unfriendly to 'outsiders,' even other Americans. One time some Texan's came here, supposedly to check out our system of corrections here, but really for a holiday. They came to our Correctional Centre all decked out in their frontier gear, including their Stetsons. Being Aussie's we just waited, and planned. The 3rd day they didn't wear their hats, and dressed more normally. The 4th day, we took them out to another model prison, which was out bush. We had it all planned. We all wore jeans, and our Akubras (our version of your Stetson) and had organised for the program staff at that prison to dress similarly. One bloke said, 'How come you've changed your dress code?' and we said that that's the way we dress when going to Centres out bush. They got more and more uncomfortable as the day went on, without their Stetsons and cowboy gear. We also spent the day talking about the size of our stations (ranches) which, of course, are much larger spreads. We didn't tell them that they have to be large, thousands of hectares, because it's all dry country and the cattle need a large area to feed. From then on, the ego seemed to be punctured, and they were easier to get along with. We never did tell them that that wasn't our normal dress. They probably went back to Texas with this story about our dress code when we go to prisons out bush. BTW, they never incorporated our Corrrectional program system there. Oregon did however.

CAROLYN.....I noticed the 'too English' bit....Yesterday was dump on Kiwi's day, for sure. As Tom said, those who haven't been world travellers can't tell the difference between the English, Aussies and Kiwis and don't have an awareness of the differences in our cultures. Notice the difference with Tom, who lived there for 2 years. Like Tom said, just consider the source. There are many differences between our 3 countries, culture and language, etc. And many, many differences between our 3 countries and the US. We only 'sorta' speak the same language.<G> When we went back one time to visit Mum and Dad, Krysti, age 7, asked for 'Chips with sauce, take-away, thanks.' The gal looked at her and said 'What?' I interpreted. 'She wants french fries with ketchup, to go, please.' Krysti speaks more like a Melbourne-ite.....quite poshy, quiet and fast. Hardly anybody could understand her over there, including my Mum. Mum had to learn to barrack for her team and call it a bum bag or Krysti would say "Uhhh, Grandma said a dirty word.' And Greg had to learn to ask for an eraser or Mum would look shocked.

STEPH.........You're right....it definitely was NOT a good time to overstay her visa. She learned the hard way. You are right about immigration in the '50's. It's totally different now, however. We have many immigrants from many countries now. One thing I've noticed that is different between here and there is that our immigrants all identify as Australian rather than use the hyphenated name. Not sure why there is that difference.

Bobbie

I suspect that immigrants to Australia and New Zealand mean to stay. Many people come to the US to work, but seem to pine and long to return home. That is probably why the identification with the country that you originated. I still feel that Texas are getting a bum rap. I know many and they are for the most part delightful humans.. Love to brag on their home state.. but so do a lot of others. I used to own a tourist store close to Disney and I certainly heard an awful lot of people who came to visit run down the US.. Many whose home countries were nothing to brag about. So.. I take with a large grain of salt the various countries bragging. EAch country in the world probably has unique things and a reason to brag.. It is better to perhaps realize that we are all quite different and that is for the good.

All,

Happy Easter.

Don't eat too many Marshmallow Eggs or Chocolate Rabbits.

Tiger Tom

All,

Spring is one month old anyone having Spring Weather? We are still in Winter. Was just above freezing this morning, but not by much.

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom, we've had about 3 weeks of beautiful spring weather. My azaleas have come and gone, wild flowers are blooming along the roadsides, and we've had lots of spring rain. Everything is green and pretty--but will turn brown about the middle of July because it will be so hot and dry! I leave in the eastern portion of south central Alabama. Sue

Spring Creek,

Lucky you. We usualy have at least a few warm days by now: in the upper 70's but the best we have been able to do is in the very low 60's. Most days in the low to mid 50's. Much rain too.

It is green around here but it is always green around here. Washinton is known as the "Evergreen State."

We will proably have a very short Summer too. I guess we will be moving as my wife is fed up with the weather around here and she says it is playing the devil with her Arthritis (mine too.)

Tiger Tom

Sorry to hear that your cool, damp climate is giving your (and your wife's) arthritis problems. I know how that can be. Washington State is a gorgeous place. Any ideas on where you might relocate? We have no plans to move, but are always checking out other places. Right now, we like where we are. Good luck, of course, in any case.

Mary

Mary Z,

Wife wants to relocate in California, two reasons: Grandkids are there and it is warmer and drier. Unfortunately, Daughter and Grandkids are in Orange County which is one of the wealtiest Counties in California or the U.S. so costs are higher for everything especially housing. I HATE Southern California. It is too crowded, too much traffic, too many big city problems, bad air, the whole thing. If we could move to the East of California near the Arizona Border it might be a bit better and cheaper but we would be a few hours away from the Daughter and Grandkids. Actually, my Daughter wants to go back to work and would like the Grandparents to babysit all day so she wouldn't have to pay a day care. She has one daughter who has a serious syndrome and only a handful of Day Care centers take special cases and they are very expensive. So, Grandparents baby sitting all day. wife would love it but one of us would have to work and it would be her as my back and leg rules that out. I couldn't take care of the kids the whole day either for the same reasons. Problem.

Still, we do want to get out of this area to a warmer, drier one.

Tiger Tom

Life does get complicated, doesn't it - and we think it should get easier as we get older. Good luck with all your decision-making.

Mary Z,

Problem is, we are forced into making choices by outside factors not because we want to.

In our working life, in the Foreign Service, we moved every two years, on average. We are very sick of having to pack up and move. We were in the F.S. for thirty some years. That is a lot of moving. One moves and it takes six months to settle in and get everything unpacked. Then when you are ready for a new post it takes six months to weed out and pack the stuff you have accumulated at your new post along with the stuff you brought with you. Also, one will have a lot of goods in storage. When we finally settled down we got our effects out of storage and some of it we hadn't seen in twenty years.

So, the thought of having to move again does not thrill me or my wife. We will because it has come to the point that we cannot abide the climate here.

Tiger Tom

All too true, Tiger Tom. I guess we're lucky because the climate that we wound up in is one that we can "live" with, and we do love the area. None of our kids live here in Chattanooga, but the furtherest one away is 4 hours, the closest one hour - and that's a good thing, too. We can pretty much stay out of each other's hair and business.

We've just added a screened porch on our deck (we had to get a new roof, so decided to extend it a little bit). Part of our thinking was that we'd probably be able to stay in the house another 10-12 years (we're 66 and 67). And in any case, our next move will probably be to an apartment and/or a retirement center (or the home for the hopelessly bewildered - whichever comes first).

John's whole career was with duPont, so we figured we'd be moving about every other year - but things didn't work out that way. We were in our first location for 24 years, and were here 5+ years before he retired. And we like it here, so we just stayed. Funny how things work out. We didn't do the moving thing, but we do love to travel.

Again, good luck.
Mary

Mary Z,

Happy that things worked out so well for you and your Husband.

We travel only when we have to: To see out Daughter and Grandkids. You would have to hold a gun to my head to get me on an Airplane other than in an absolute emergency involving my Daughter or Grandkids. I have traveled around the world a few times by Air and I don't want to press my luck any further.

I sure wish we still had the Railroad passenger trains of years ago. THAT was the way to travel. Drawing Room, first class, Parlor Car and the rest of it. If one had the time, of course. Amtrak is a joke.

Tiger Tom

I guess we'd feel the same way about travel if we'd moved around as much as you have. Our daughter and SIL took the Amtrak from Southern Illinois to New Orleans in February for their 25th anniversary - just for a long weekend. They had a good time, and enjoyed the train ride. It was LONG, though. I don't know that they'll do it again - maybe once was enough. I've always thought I'd like to take the train across the Canadian Rockies, but we've just not done that yet. Another daughter and friend took the train from Chicago to Seattle/Sacramento/Salt Lake City/Kansas City/St. Louis/Chicago several years ago. They had a great time, but said getting a room was a must, and that the quality of the experience was directly related to how good the car attendant was. They had mostly great ones.

Getting back to the topic of reading - one of the hardest things about moving is deciding which books to keep and which can be given away. Again, hard choices.

Mary Z,

One doesn't get rid of books. Toss out the rest but keep the books. Or at least that is how I feel about it.

Wife kept her things that she picked up over the years and I kept my books.

I Have had to sort some to donate to the Library book sale as I needed room on my book shelves for the new books I have bought. Fortunately, I had some that I no longer needed: Two shelves of text's for an Anthopology course, some novels, odds and ends. But it hurt.

Tiger Tom

We never throw books away - I even hate to throw magazines away. Like you, we donate to library book sales, exchange at the used book store, etc....our favorite is each summer when we go to the beach - everybody brings a sack of books to exchange. The decisions are always incredibly hard!

Oh gosh, MaryZ and Tom - how well I know what you mean about sorting out books. We recently (well, it's now been a year) accomplished a major move. One of the points of the move was to downsize because things were getting out of control. My husband parted with some dearly beloved tools, to say nothing of his/our '31 model A, Josephine. I just had to do my share but out of the hundreds of books, I don't think there was a one that wasn't an old friend. Each one I had read or could tell you why I darned well was going to! I did wind up taking boxes and boxes of books to my favorite used book store where they told me they really didn't want any more books but they finally did take all that I offered and promised that none would be thrown away. And my husband wound up giving away some of his dearest possessions.

Now that we are what passes for "settled", my dear husband still can't walk a clear path through his garage and I still don't have all my books unpacked and shelved.

And you know what? - we STILL have a hard time passing up a garage sale or any place that old tools/books might be available! There ARE worse things to be addicted to so I'll stop complaining - but I DO understand what you are going through.

Diane,

You are lucky you can find any books worth buying at a Garage Sale. In this area it is Harlequin Romance Novels and Readers Digest books (three novels, digested, in one book.

Around here no old tools. People in this area don't let go of those things. Even so, once in a while something will pop up but the Dealers have pretty well picked the area clean.

Tiger Tom

Well, Tom, you know the saying - "You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince" - loosely translated, you have to sort through a lot of junk before you find the one(s) you want to buy.

One of my best recent finds was at a local consignment type place that has a small book section - along with the rejects was one book I didn't even know existed but written by one of my favorite natural health care authorities (Ron Kennedy if anyone is interested). It's a great book and I'm so happy to have found it.

Diane,

I don't stray very far from home any more. I live near a small town of 3,000 approxilately. One supermarket a few gas stations, a few taverns and five banks. NO book stores of any kind. Nearest town of any size is Aberdeen which is 35,00 population. One small shapping mall which is barely hanging on and a Walmart which is wiping out just about all of the other small businesses. Dullsville but I like it. After a life on wandering and having lived in been in the Largest cities in the World and the two most Populous countries, India and China, a small town and a quiet life suits me fine even if there isn't what is availabe in other areas.

Tiger Tom

I find some comfort reading posts by those who have gone through the process of downsizing book collections. I am at the point now where books must go. I am weeding out the books I know I will be able to take out from the library if and when I choose to read them. Nevertheless, I am mad at myself for being sad that not only must I prune but that my book-buying days are over.

Stopped by Bruegger's Bagel Bakery a couple of weeks ago, surprised to see that they have a wall of books donated by customers. Customers are invited to bring in a book and exchange it for one on the shelf. I didn't see any on the shelf I would want. However, I believe I will go this "book friendly" coffee shop more often and just plain donate a book or two.

Showdog,

Giving up a book is like giving up a friend of long standing or losing someone close.

The older we get the more we have to say goodby to friends and others close to us who go on to their reward. That may be why it is hard to give up a book because we know that nothing can take it from us. We have to let it go ourselves.

I too have many books that I probably could check out of the Library. I like having books around me. I like buying them. It is always nice to browse in a book store even if I have no plans on buying anything. I love the feel and sight of a book. Books comfort me, never abandon me, nor betray me, unlike humans are wont to do. Only thing I can think that is as loyal as a book is a Dog.

Tiger Tom

Tom.....very moving posts, which I can identify with. I started travelling the world with my parents and continued doing that until 5 years ago. One difference is that I had had it with living in a big city when I was in my early 20's, when I moved (migrated) from the megalopolis of LA, to a small town of under 10,000. I continued my world travels until 1998 as per Australia's generous rec leave (vacation) system (a minimum of 4 weeks per year, plus banked overtime time off and 12 weeks long service leave every 10 years. Even when I moved to Queensland, I lived in small towns until we had to move to the Brisbane area before my husband died, so we had access to the hospital. Even then, I don't actually live in Brisbane, but as far out as possible. Even though I can go to the supermarket, etc, see people I know and have a chat, I still miss the small town atmosphere, and only stay here because my daughter lives in Brisbane, so I'm relatively close to her. My son still lives in the small town in SE Qld we moved to when we came over here. I still travel eastern Australia, and go camping regularly, but have finished with overseas travel.

One thing I do enjoy about where I live, is that I have access to an excellent library system, and a number of wonderful book stores, including several Book Cafes, new and used books. I agree with you, giving up a book is like giving up a friend, and I have a terrible time getting rid of books, which I am in the process of doing. And, yes, it it similar to saying goodbye to friends who have moved on to their reward. One whole wall in my family room is a wall to wall bookcase. Like you, I get a warm feeling having those books around me. I also have 3 -3 shelf bookcases in my office, mostly reference books, and right now am getting a warm feeling just looking at them. BTW, I also have a very loyal dog (at my feet as I type) and a very loyal cat (spread out on half of my computer table right now.)

Bobbie

Bobbie,

You are very lucky. You seem to have a great world that you are living in.

Only fly in my ointment is my wife wants to be near our Grandkids. That means moving to Southern California, which I would just as soon not do. However to keep wife and Daughter happy and talking to me, I will move there. I HATE Air Conditioning so the Summer months will be hard. Still, I will have my books and my music so I guess I will be able to manage.

Tiger Tom

It is too bad that you have to be in an enviroment that you hate (albeit with people that you love). However, books and music and a lot of love can overcome other things. Hang in there!

Tom, from one book-lover and fresh air-lover to another, if you have your new home equipped with overhead fans it's amazing how comfortable you can be without air conditioning. We have had air conditioning in our homes from Los Angeles to Paso Robles (known for its hot summers) and now up in the foothills (also known for hot summers)and very seldom use it. The overhead fans, in all the major rooms, keeps us so comfortable and we can keep the windows open and enjoy fresh air. It's great.

And I certainly agree with you and Bobbie and your feelings about books as friends, whether met or yet to be met, they are treasured. One of the most difficult things I've ever had to do was make decisions on which to keep, which to find homes for when we moved - right up there with finding homes for a litter of kittens I'd grown to love and parents said we couldn't keep them all! And even though they're not all unpacked yet and settled on their new shelves (need more shelves!) it's great to look around on the ones that are left.

Truely, book-lovers are the lucky ones and most wonderfully blessed!

Tom....perhaps you can move to a small town in SoCal rather than being in the megalopolis and it's accompanying smog, traffic, etc. You'd still be close enough to visit relatively easily, yet have your small town atmosphere. Like Diane said, ceiling fans are an excellent option. I do have air conditioning but rarely use it, sometimes just to cool the house down a bit, then use the ceiling fans to circulate the air. It's more humid here than in SoCal and it's the humidity that makes one feel hotter. I think I only turned the air con on 9-10 times last summer. I have a house which gets the afternoon breezes and which has good cross-ventilation, so that, along with ceiling fans, which are in most rooms (2 in the family room) work well except in the hottest heat spells. Do you play instruments, or just listen to music? I do both....and play flute, guitar and piano, as well as read a lot. With your music, ceiling fans, cross ventilation, and your books, if you sit under the fan, you'll be right, mate.

Bobbie

Diane, Bobbiecee,

Ceiling Fans. I am one of those people who cannot abide a ceiling fan. They cause sniffles constantly and a cold. I would rather struggle with the heat.

As far as living a bit away from Daughter in a small town: the main (unsaid) reason she wants us to move to Southern California is we can be a cheap day care center for her. The guy she is with wants her to go back to work but day care center for our Grand Daughter, who has a Wolf-Hirschorn snydrome, would eat up any wages she would make. So, grandparents would be full time Baby Sitters. My wife would love it but since California is so expensive she would have to go to work and I could not handle the Grand Daughter. Problems. But yes, a small town would be better and cheaper.

Tiger Tom

Tom....sorry to hear about your granddaughter, a very rare syndrome. I have a friend who works for MultiCap so I have an idea how much it costs for care. There do appear to be many issues involved in a move to California, especially since the cost of living is so dear there. It would be a big responsibility for your wife, and if she would have to go back to work to make ends meet, your daughter would be in the same boat, having to pay for child care with an organisation like MultiCap. Plus, it would be a big and unsettling move for you and your wife. Yes, big problems that you and your wife need to discuss, before you make the big move. It would be a huge lifestyle change for you, going from a small town you love to a highly populated area with the accompanying fast lifestyle. You'd also be moving away from all of your friends, and your simple lifestye. How about a retirement village? I don't know what they cost back there, but I'd assume that they'd cost more in California than in a state with a lower cost of living.

I'm sorry ceiling fans aren't an option for you. I'm just the opposite. I tend to clog up when the air con is on, but have no problem with ceiling fans.

Bobbie

Bobbicie,

Unfortunately, my wife has her heart set on getting out of this area. She wants to head for somewhere warm and dry near as we can get to our Grandkids. That means Southern California. So, I go along or it is divorce time and I cannot afford that.

I wouldn't mind if we could find a nice small town to live in. I don't want to fight the traffic and worry about the Crime and the rest of it that goes along with a large city or a over populated county like Orange County in California.

It is wet where we are but there is a lot of compentsation for that: Clean Air, Clean water, very low crime rate, little traffic, Mountains, Rivers, Lakes, Forests, the Ocean, and some nice people. Exchange that for Southern California, I would rather not.

Read any good books lately?

Tiger Tom

TOM.....it sounds like where you're currently living is heaven. I feel sad for you. It's going to be a wrenching grief for you when you move. I just finished reading Dead Wrong, and prior to that, Evil Angels Among them....interesting twists in that one. I still have one more library book to read, Dark Stain, which I'm going to start shortly when I go to bed. Then I think I'll start reading one of the hard cover books I bought myself (a weak moment in the book store. <G>) Second hand, but hard cover..called Cry of the Curlew by an Australian author, Peter Watt. Have you read any of Bryce Courtenay's books? He's an Australian author and one of my favourites. I buy all of his books, new and hard cover.

Bobbie

Bobbiecee,

No cannot say I have read any Australian Writers but also cannot say that I have not. Don't know for sure. I do know that I have not read anthing by the Author you named. Probably my loss but there you are.

Tiger Tom

All,

Hello out there. Anyone Home?

You all too busy Spring Cleaning or avoiding same?

Tiger Tom

Busy reading, Tom. Shhhhhh. (smile)

Diane,

OK, will just tiptoe out of here.

Tiger Tom

I read because I just have too. I buy books because I don't stop myself from this addiction. Today I bought 20 books at the AAUW book sale for $10.75. The author's range from Nelson DeMille to Nora Roberts.

If you like Historical Novels and are able to tolerate romance, you might try Jane Feather's Kiss trilogy. I've just finished The Widow's Kiss and To Kiss a Spy. I'll finish the 3rd today, Kissed by Shadows. The plots are well written and are based on the reigns of Henry VIII, Mary, and Elizabeth. The intrigue and plotting of each monarch is included--liberties taken by the author, of course. If racy scenes turn you off, you might want to stay away from this trilogy, but these scenes are central to the plot. The sex is not gratuitous, just steamy. Sue

Back from our three week adventure with our 5th wheel and truck. We went from central Florida to Corpus Christie, Texas and all sorts of places inbetween. Found used books stores all over the place. Since we once owned one, we try to visit them wherever we go. Found some nice new ( to me ) authors who are mostly quite regional. We are the opposite , Tom.. We moved a good deal over our careers since we worked for a venture capitol company and they were always investigating new businesses, etc. We find in retirement, that about every 5 or 6 years, we get bored and move on.. Not far mind you, but we switch atmospheres.. Silly but we enjoy it..

Stephanie - sounds kinda neat - your wonderlust lifestyle. And I bet you've become really good at moving, right? Except, I imagine, as with the rest of us, books become a blessing and a curse in that regard. Am I right? Do you recycle the old books as you acquire new ones, or do you let them build up to critical mass? Just wondering. The subject comes up a lot with fellow book-lovers.

Stepanoe,

Our moves were always total. Usually from one side of the world to the other, from one climate to another and from one culture to another.

I hate the thought of picking up and moving again even though I have reached the point that I cannot abide the climate where I am. I guess I still think I am going to move to the other side of the Moon.

Tiger Tom

Books.. Oh me,, They get overwhelming sometimes on moves. Actually this is a downsize move from a whole house to a townhouse, so I must bite the bullet on some stuff. I am a genealogist and have a large library.. So they all go.. I collect cookbooks, but for the first time am going to whittle them down to manageable.. Regular books.. I must really sit down and think hard of what to take.. I have some authors I will not get rid of, but I have some others, that I can always get at the library. Since owning the used book store, I have been more prone to getting rid of by donating or trading.. Works for me. I guess Tom that I was wondering if Northern California would be an answer for you and your wife.. No matter what you do, you cannot solve your daughters babysitting problems if your wife would have to work full time when you move.. Therefore.. why not look for a pleasanter climate keeping in mind that it would be nice to be somewhat closer to her..Compromise is the name of the game.. always remembering that both of you need to be happy for a long and joyful life.

Stephanie,

Compromise for me is doing what my Wife and Daughter want. I have spoiled them for so long that it is expected of me to go along with what they want.

Tiger Tom

STEPHANIE......Like Diane, I like your wanderlust lifestyle. I'm a wanderlust as well. I'm planning a trip 1000 kms west, in the outback, to visit a friend I made via SN....in June. Then, in spring, I'm hitching up my tent trailer, driving down to Gosford (1000kms) to see a friend, then another 500 kms to Bega to see another friend, then 200 kms to Geelong, another friend, another 100 kms to Ballarat, another friend, then 1400 kms back home, stopping at National Parks on the way back. When I was younger, my husband, kids and I travelled all over the world. We get long rec leave (vacations) here so I usually and 6 weeks or more each year, with 12 weeks long-service leave every 10 years. We also travelled all over Australia, including long camping trips in the outback, requiring 4wd vehicles.

TOM.....What countries have you lived in? One of the wonderful things about world travel is that when reading books, one can actually bring up memories of what is described in the books. Another, of course, is an appreciation of other cultures.

Bobbie

Bobbicie,

Germany, Holland, England, Stays in Bulgaria, Switzerland, Denmark (these were for short tours of Duty) Tunisia, Algeria (another short tour of Duty) Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, China.

Of course, I traveled during that time to other countries for visits. But those were the countries that I spent either a tour of Duty in or a Temporary Tour of Duty.

Tiger Tom

TOM.......If you associated with the locals and toured those countries as well as other countries, you undoubtedly have a good knowledge of other countries and other cultures. I haven't been to Bulgaria, Tunisia, or Pakistan, but have been in the other countries, plus many more, all European countries except the communist countries, Spain, Nepal, South Africa, Hong Kong, and most SE Asian countries and islands.

Bobbie

Bobbicie,

You are well traveled.

In my case, it was a job. So, I was involved in the affairs of the post I was assigned to. You would be surprised how different that is than visiting a country as a tourist. One is working a Eight to Five job, (although more like Eight to whenever) Five to Six days a week. One spends the day in the mission, working at one's Job, speaking English for the most part and being in a basically American Environment and them back to one's quarters. Lots of times one doesn't see as much of the country as a tourist will see, for various reasons.

Tiger Tom

I have a dear friend whose husband was in foreign service. But I suspect she saw more of the country than he did, because they had children and they involved her in local activities often.

Stephanie,

Many times it would depend on the Post. In Bangladesh travel was not that easy except for the one or two places that were served by Air. So, intertaining amongst the staff was usual. Often a little booze helped one through the day, as long as one didn't let the booze get the upper hand. I was surprised when I first arrived at that post to be offered something early in the morning. By the time I left, I would take what was offered regardless of the hour.

Tiger Tom

TOM.....Sad that you weren't able to mingle with the natives, so to speak, in many of the countries you were posted to. A real loss, IMO. Unlike you, I was not only a tourist, I tried to stay with locals, B&B's, and went to places they recommended, rather than just the tourist spots. I migrated to the Territory here. When I was in Alice Springs, I met Americans who were associated with Pine Gap. I noticed that many of them had morning drinkies as well, Bloody Mary mornings. Very strange to me. Why would one want to drink in the morning unless one was an alcoholic. Not my thing. Now a drink at the Bull Bar after work on Friday, with staff from Community Development, Crown Law and Justice, that was acceptable, and a weekly occurence. I was always cautious when driving closely to a left-hand drive vehicle as the driver was often a bit under the weather.<G> I reckon a number would have gone back home after their tour and been poured into AA.

STEPH....In Alice, the Pine Gap homes were scattered throughout the community, the kids went to local schools and because the wives were on temporary resident visas, they didn't work, so many attended school activities and were involved in the school P&C. I wasn't rapt in what they called the 'govvies' but the people from TRW (Calif) and E-Systems (Texas) were very nice and fit well into the community. We became friends with several couples from TRW and E-Systems. They enjoyed going out bush like we did.

Bobbie

All,

Been two weeks and not a peep.

Would love to hear about what you have been reading these days.

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom - I'll be back atcha. Late getting dinner going right now (guess why? - I'm on the internet all the time!). I have an interesting array of books to report on and I'll post later.

We just got two books from the library to finish this week - Agatha Raisin and the Curious Curate by M.C.Beaton; and Flashback by Nevada Barr - they are both 7-day books, and we both want to read them. John is into Flashback, and I just finished Agatha. We also got one of the Fannie Flagg books, but that's a 28-day book, so no hurry.

We've put down The DaVinci Code and the new Tony Hillerman book in order to fit in the library books. John's also read the new John Grisham book. He and our daughter both liked that one - said that it didn't read as much like a movie script as some of his other books.

John and I each occasionally have periods when we CAN'T read - and it's so distressing! We keep plugging along though, and finally the hiatus passes, and we're back to devouring anything we can find.

All,

Check on the new Curious Minds topic. I think that you will like it: "Favorite Literary Characters"

Tiger Tom

Diane,

I'M WAITING, Heh, Heh.

Tiger Tom

Hey, Tiger Tom - I KNEW you wouldn't let me get away with not answering!

Well, the sad truth is that I can see that I'm a book glutton - and I'm not bragging. What happened is that between raves and suggestions here on SN, and browsing at the library, I unexpectedly wound up with a windfall of books - more than I could possibly read within the three to six weeks allowed.

So, I'm sad to confess that a good number of the books went back unread.

"Why We Read What We Read" - because they're there. If I see a book that appeals to me, especially in the library, I have the selfish feeling that if I don't take it right away, I may never get a chance with that book again.

I've just finished up with "All Over But The Shoutin'", discussed here on SN. Well-written and good discussion.

Robby was good enough to come to my Alternative/Complementary Medicine discussion and invite us to his on-going discussion on "Story of Civilization" , volume II, on Greece,by Will Durant. At the time they were discussing medicine and doctors, which I couldn't resist so joined in on that for a while and located a copy of the book at our library. Alas, I think this one's too heavy for me to stay involved with for any length of time. Very impressive posts, however.

SN is shortly beginning a discussion of "The Little Friend". This one is a BIG book but sounds so good, and my library had a copy so....I'm off and running on this one.

SN is starting a discussion on June 9 (whee,I get a breather!) on "Searching for Hassan" - again, sounded like such a good and worthwhile read, plus it's non-fiction which I really appreciate, and my library has a copy so, again....

SN has already started its discussion on "When Religions Become Evil" and it too sounds like a must-read. Book, used, is on order from Amazon. I lurk in the discussion and hope I'm not being presumptious to think that when the book comes and I get caught up I might contribute now and then.

Then there's "Patient Heal Thyself" which a fellow health nut recommended and it came in just when all the others did. I've read about a third of it, really like it, but there's no SN discussion so I have to keep putting it aside. I swear, it's getting to be like SCHOOL! Also two books on which nutrients are being depleted from the body by which prescription drugs - not for reading entertainment but I do look a lot of things up and find them pretty interesting - amazing, actually. Everyone who ever plans on, or finds themselves taking prescription drugs should have at least one of these.

Still on reserve at the library, with two or three ahead of me, are "Pigs at the Trough" by Adriana Huffington which promises to really get my juices going, plus a laugh or two (it's about corporate greed and might lend itself to a SN discussion - we'll see). And also the one by Queen Noor, and I forget the name - maybe Leap of Faith or something like that. I hope the people reading these two now are slow readers!

Also still here from the library are: "The Motley Fool Investment Guide", "Fast Food Nation" which I'd been wanting to read for a while, and "Everything You Know is Wrong" - who could resist a title like that? Plus "Quicken for Dummies" and "Windows for Dummies" - self-explanatory those last two.

See what I mean?

And my two alternative health type magazines (one just came in; the other will probably come this week). And our new subscription to the Sacramento Bee because our other paper didn't have enough coverage. So now it takes at least three times longer just to get through the daily paper.

I have no resistance, Tom - I'm hooked. And really, I'm not bragging -this is getting to be a problem although I've never felt so ganged up against as right now.

And it would be SO nice if I could remember even half of what I read!

OK, back to the books - I'll give you a status report when I've completed a few.

I'm about halfway through Hill Country by Janice Woods Windle. I was attracted to it because it has the same or similar title to one of Anne Rivers Siddons popular novels. This is a novelized version of actual historical happenings in the Texas Hill Country. Windle's grandmother, Laura Hoge Woods, left a rich store of her journal writings which Windle has turned into her second historical novel, the first was True Women which I have not read. Laura Woods and Rebekkah Baines (LBJ's mother) were lifelong friends and Lyndon and Laura's son, Wilton, were close also. I'm just getting to the part where Sam Johnson and Rebekkah Baines Johnson are into Texas politics and Lyndon is born. Pretty interesting stuff, including Indian raids, a hanging, horse thieves, etc. Sue

Diane,

Like you, I cannot stop. I should use the Library but I have an itch to own a book I see or read about. Money, it is always that, decides how many and when I buy books. Constantly joining Book Clubs to take advantage of the offerings to new members of four or five books for a dollar each or some other reduced price with no obligation or an obligation of one book.

Then I haunt the Book Stores looking in the Bargain Book Section. I don't mind waiting for a year or so to buy a best seller as long as I can get it cheap.

As long as my eyes hold out I will continue to buy and read. Of course, I am so far behind. I have many, many, books that I have started and many, many books that I haven't. Stacks of books around, no room in my book cases.

Still, I don't think I am up to your level. You sure do read a lot. I am sure you will enjoy every book.

You know, I don't really know what I would have done if there were no books in my world. Imagine, living with nothing to read.

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom - One of my fears is that of being stuck somewhere - in my car or even waiting for an appointment - with nothing to read. I always try to carry a Readers Digest with me or any other small book.

I never really even imagined a world with no books but I do sometimes think Hell might be a place with books all over but all glued shut so that they could not be opened. Shudder!

Yes, I do enjoy most of the books I read and, believe it or not, I am trying to be more selective about what I bring home. But one thing that represents a milestone for me - I no longer feel compelled to finish a book that I don't like. This is a real accomplishment for me and it doesn't happen often. Actually, it happened just recently - the book was "The Blue Shoe", a novel by Anne Lamott. I have just enjoyed to the teeth all of the several other of her books and was delighted to find this, her latest, in the library. I read maybe 100 or fewer pages and just didn't see the brilliance I associate with her writing. Of course, at this particular time I have so many books waiting that I suppose it was almost a relief to return this one and diminish my list by one. Too bad, though, because I do so much enjoy her style - maybe she's better at non-fiction than fiction.

I became an Anne LaMott fan after reading Traveling Mercies. To the extent I've read reviews of her fictional works, they haven't seemed to be as well regarded as her non-fiction. The Blue Shoe only received a lukewarm review in the Los Angeles Times. I still haven't made the plunge into reading her fiction.

Suzz

Dianne,

My problem is that I have so many books started
that I have a hard time finishing any of them. I
have a bad habit of starting a book immediately
after I have bought it so the others get pushed
to the back. More new books, more pushed back.
So, I have hundreds of books with bookmarks in
them waiting to be finished.

Some of those books were in storage for 20 years.
Bookmark was still in the books. I looked at one
book, glanced at the bookmark and found that my
Daughter had changed the bookmark that I had used
to a note telling me what she wanted for Christmas.
I didn't find the list until 20n years after she wrote
it. The day she put it in to the book I was reading and
had sitting on the arm of my Easy Chair, I got a new
shipment of books. So, the book with the list got put
back in to the book shelf and I started in on my new
books. I never got back to that book until I retired.

I often wonder if I will ever finish all of the books I
have started. Perhaps, if I can just stop buying new ones.

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom - I think our "symptoms" are similar. Woe is us! The library just called with another book that came up and the mail today brought another. The latter is OK, though, because I have that one out from the library so I can just return it and I'll be back where I started! And just where was that?

Funny story about the bookmarks and your daughter's Christmas list! Twenty whole years - wow!

Here's something of interest - the book we just finished the discussion on, "All Over But the Shoutin'" by Rick Bragg - does that name sound familiar? Well, darn it all, now he too has been found guilty of plagerizing and is on administrative leave from the NY Times! This is really kind of a shock, having just read his book and feeling we kind of knew him. This guy rose from lower than dirt poor all the way up to a title at the NY Times AND a Pulitzer Prize. How dumb can you get? I worry more about his mother who suffered so much for her kids and got not much in return - and now this!

According to NPR today, most of the in depth pieces, such as the one Bragg allegedly plagiarized, have research assistance from staff members. Some publications list all staff, others don't. He goofed and did not name the researchers, but the article was written in his beautiful style. That is the conclusion of the report on NPR anyway. Maybe we'll never know the real story on any of these reports. Sue

Diane

I think it may be a sign of the time.

We seem to be losing our moral compass.

Tiger Tom

Bragg wasn't guilty of plagiarism. He did not do the original reporting himself; it was done by an intern working for him. He did not take previously published material and pass it off as his own as Blair did.

He took the intern's notes on interviews and wrote the piece himself. The intern did not receive credit for having contributed to the piece, as is/was apparently the custom at the NYTimes. The intern provided the leg work; Bragg did the writing.

That's how I understand it, too, Suzz. Thanks for the clarification. I read in the Montgomery Advertiser that Bragg, who is living in Texas (not sure of that, but not in NYC), had been thinking of devoting his writing time to a new novel and was planning to leave the Times before this occurred. (I couldn't decide whether there should be 1 r or 2!)Sue

Has anyone read one of Kristin Hannah's books? I find her books to be engrossing and her characters to be well defined. Lots to mull over after I finish. I just finished Between Sisters, her latest novel. One the cover of one of her previous books the publisher describes her writing this way: Kristin Hannah writes another poignant and tender story of love, loss, passion, and the fragile threads that bind families together.

All,

I will be rejoining this discussion as discussion leader as soon as I can get my e-mails to Majorie correct. Been having problems so I have sent her e-mails with words left off leading to misunderstandings. NOT her fault but MINE.

When we get it straight my name will replace that of Majorie's.

Tiger Tom

TIGER TOM: Your name is now in the heading as Discussion Leader here.

TOM....I used to have your problem...starting but not finishing books, so I can identify with that. I still have that problem with non-fiction, in my own books, but no longer with fiction. I now finish one book before I start another. It makes me feel more comfortable to do it that way. As far as non-fiction, my own, I tend to read them a bit at a time and make notes in the margin, even highlight significant parts so it's easy to refer back. I also study more when reading non-fiction, whereas I just zip through fiction, a form of relaxation for me. However, I only start one non-fiction at a time in most instances, and finish that before I start the next. The only deviation from that is when I am reading a loaned non-fiction book. I read that in bits and pieces over the 3 weeks I have it on loan. I usually take out one non-fiction every time I go to the library. Fancy you not finding your daughter's note for 20 years. <G>

DIANE.....The library rang me today with a reserved book that became available. I will finish the book I'm reading now and then start that one. The name is Circle of Stones by Anna Lee Waldo. According to a friend who read it, it's like a combination of Clan of the Cave Bear and The Celestine Prophesy. Our new library just opened and it's fantastic, plus separate reading and studying rooms and reading alcoves with comfy chairs, and mobs of room and light. I'm chuffed.

Richard Bragg.....what I heard is what you wrote, SUE and SUZZ, in your post about him....that he had research assistance, which is usual, but the accusers are claiming plagarism because he didn't list all the researchers. Actually, most columnists don't appear to, so, as far as I'm concerned, its a tempest in a tea pot. We have very strong plagarism laws here, in newspapers, but the consensus of opinion here is that it isn't plagarism as long as researchers are listed somewhere in the publication. However, as you said, TOM, I do feel that we are losing our moral compass. Now we're the oldies talking about the 'good old days, eh?<g>

MARJORIE, I have not read any of Kristin Hannah's books but from what you have said, they seem worth reading.

Bobbie

Bobbie, Circle of Stones sounds intriguing. I read both Celestine and Clan but many years ago. Hope you'll let us know what you think of it.

I wish I were as disciplined as you. Right now I'm reading The Little Friend, quite a long book (I hate it when I start "rating" a book's readability by how many pages!), hoping to participate in the SN discussion that just started. In another week begins the discussion on Searching for Hassan which I very much want to join and have just received the book, both these books being library books.

In the mail just arrived When Religion Becomes Evil, and Story of Civilization, volume II on Greece which I now see will be a little deep for me. I will lurk along in the discussions but don't foresee being able to contribute much. Either one of those two would be a full-time endeavor for me.

Finally, the library phoned yesterday to say that Ariana Huffington's book, Pigs at the Trough (her take on current corporate greed)is in for me and I can't wait to get into that one! Obviously I have to concentrate on the ones that are topics of discussions but there's something about a brand new book that just shouts out to be at least quickly skimmed.

So, the fun continues!

All,

Please go to the SN Home page and vote in the Poll found there. " Do you like to read and discuss the books" or "Do you like to read but not disucss the books?"

Tiger Tom

Just click on the word "Home" at the top or bottom of this page to get to the Home Page for the poll TIGER TOM mentioned.

DIANE....in re finishing books, I think it leaves me with a feeling of procrastination and failure if I only half read a book, unless I find it boring. I only buy books which I know will be good, so if a borrowed book's too boring, I just put it in my library return bag. I've reserved the SN books you mention, but quite often they don't become available until after most of the discussion is over. What I find about the discussions is that many tend to discuss bits and pieces whereas I tend to be a 'big picture' person, so quite often, I read but don't discuss. I think I've spent too many years in my profession, where I note all bits and pieces but fit them into the jig saw puzzle to form the 'big picture' and make assessments from that. It's too frustrating for me to try to change at this late date, so I just read other's comments. I belong to a book discussion group here which does look at the 'big picture' so I go to that on a fortnightly basis and discuss. I wonder if it's a cultural difference, because only one of the participants here was in a similar field to me. Don't know.

I'm going to start Circle of Stones as soon as I finish my current book so will let you know what I think of it. 'Pigs at the Trough' sounds good. If I read it, I'm afraid it will only increase my level of cynicism however.<G>

TOM...I'll get into the poll as soon as I post this.

Bobbie

Reader Alert!! FYI: A new SeniorNet Poll:

Like to read and discuss books?
Here's a Poll just for you!
Click here for Poll

All,

Anyone read Mrs. Clinton's Book?

Anyone reserved the New Harry Potter book (for the kids, of course?)

Tiger Tom

I'm waiting for my library to get both, but I will buy the new Harry Potter when it comes out in paperback. I have really enjoyed this series and am planning to read them to my grandsons when they are a little older. Six and four are too young yet, although their parents took them to the first movie.

A high school friend is reading Clinton's book now and says it is very interesting. I'm visiting her in August and will probably read some of it if the library here doesn't get it before that. I'm thinking they might not buy it as this is an ultra-conservative area with most people still in hate for the Clintons. Too bad, in my opinion. Sue

I get each Harry Potter as it comes out in paperback.. Saving them for my grandchildren, but oh my,, I read each one first. Excellent books.. Sound like real children and in many ways are a little morality tale in each one.

Springcreek, Stepanie,

I too will buy the Harry Potter book when it comes out in Softcover.

Mrs. Clinton's Book. I guess I will get on the list for the Library Copy. This is a conserevative area but not Arch. Lot of professional types retired here so we have a levening of Liberals.

Tiger Tom

No wonder you don't want to leave the area, Tiger Tom. I'm known as the last White Democrat here--and don't talk politics with many as their ideas are so contrary to mine. There is a young man who loves to tease me about my liberal ideas, but he's the only one who says much about it. I suspect he holds a few of my ideas, too. I have one very dear ultra conservative friend who sends me e-mails about ultra conservative causes which she wants me to read, support and forward. I delete them immediately and want to tell her not to send anymore, but I don't want to lose her friendship, so I just quietly delete. Sue

Springcreek,

My brother is a raging Conservative. Makes for interesting dinners and get togethers. Long as politicas are not brought up everything is all right. Problem, he blames everything on the "Liberals" regardless of what it is or what has caused it.

Guy across the street used to be a Conservative but Bush is driving him into the center.

Me, I wear protective coloring, drive a Pickup, and just say I am retired. Don't tell anyone that I worked for the Federal Government for three decades. That is the enemy with some people around here.

Tiger Tom

Sounds like a good idea, Tom. There are lots of those anti-government groups. We have that Eric Rudolph in jail in Birmingham now. He is the suspected bomber of an abortion clinic in Birmingham who killed a policeman and seriously maimed a nurse. He is also the suspect in the bombing at the Olympics in Atlanta and has been on the lam in the N.C. mountains ever since. I can't understand how these people get such far out ideas about killing people to get back at the government for supposed wrongs. Sue

Springcreek,

Same mind set that allowed a pilot in Vietnam to say that they had to destroy a village in order to save it.

I cannot fathom thinking like that at all.

Tiger Tom

You are so right about that, Tom. My husband was a Navy pilot stationed on the USS Ticonderoga in the late 60s as ship's company, not in a squadron. He was appalled at some of the things they were asked to do. He did his duty as ordered, but had ethical problems with some of it. That was a terrible time for Officers and men with a conscience. Some however gloried in the slaughter. We should probably not be discussing this here, but although I occasionally lurk in the political discussions I don't post as there seems to be no real debate--merely 2 sides who restate over and over extreme positions with great rancor. It has been nice to exchange ideas here, but perhaps we're turning off some readers. Sue

I am going to buy the Harry Potter series to keep to read out loud to the grandchildren. I was reading before I started school but loved the teachers who read us books one chapter at a time in the last period before going home. We could not wait until the next day to see what happened! The first books read to us at school as six year olds was the Grey Rabbit series and then at 8 one teacher read us The Secret Seven and the Famous Five ( both Enid Blyton series) Try reading a chapter at a time of an exciting book to your 6 and over grandkids. Take the book when you visit and have it ready when they visit you. I am starting with Brooke 6 with Enid Blytons bedtime adventure stories. Each of the stories is very long so I break them up into four episodes. I love helping the kids choose books at the library too. My daughter says I am good at finding them books they love. I also have a large childrens library at home which the grands borrow from. I began by buying new books on special and now I buy a lot of the discarded library books. I have bought some really beautifully illustrated books for 50c each and the kids really love them. Some of the books they borrow time and time again. I always mark the books with "Granny Stirlings library" so they come back. The libary is in a big cupboard even the little ones know to go to it to choose a book for reading time. One year old Liam often brings me books to read from the cupboard.

Carolyn

Agree with you, Tom and Sue.....The current belief, as in Vietnam, in which my husband fought, is Peace is War and War is Peace. The mind boggles.

Bobbie

All,

Tomorrow, in Curious Minds, a new topic: National Days. With emphasis on our Fourth of July.

However, we want people from other nations to come and tell us about their National Day, what it means, what it means to them and how they celebrate it. bobbicie, I know that you are a transplanted Australian but I am sure you know enough about the Country to tell us about Australia Day.

Those of you who might be interested in this Subject are invited to come join us.

Tiger Tom

Harry Potter.

I have read all four of the previous books so I am familiar with the Characters. I have read that Rowling killed off one of the main Characters. I have been wondering which one. My vote would be Ron. I cannot see her killing off Hermoine and certainly not Harry. So, it would have to be Ron or Malfor.

Anyone stay up to buy the book last night?

Anyone know who she killed off?

Tiger Tom

Mary Page knows but she says she is NOT telling!

Carolyn

I don't think it is one of the younger characters as I think there will be a romance between Ron and Hermione and Harry will also have a girlfriend soon. Maybe Dumbledore or one of the other professors?

Carolyn, your ideas and activities for your grandchildren are terrific. I do lots of those, too, and was very successful in teaching reading to all ages many years. I read aloud at least 3 times a day to younger children and at least once to pre-teens and teens. Many of my former students tell me that they learned to love reading from my class. Unfortunately I live in a poverty stricken area where youngsters come to schools without books at home. So teachers must make the effort to expose them.

Also unfortunately many teachers get so bound up in "testing fervor" that they neglect this. I am proud to say that my read to students scored higher consistently on those ridiculous standardized tests than those who were taught to the test, simply because they enjoyed and excelled at reading. Alabama now has a poorly funded Reading Iniative which uses some of the methods I used for increasing literature activities in classrooms as well as developing reading skills. It has made good progress in training teachers in about 1/4 of the schools, but money is tight and we're in a big brouhaha about raising taxes to help fund this as well as other needed social and educational programs. The Alabama Reading Initiative has been copied successfully in other states, so I'm hoping the new governor's tax proposals pass. I doubt it, though, as we have to have a special election to approve it and the religious groups and anti-tax groups are gearing up to stop it.

BTW, I left a message for you, Carolyn, on some of my favorite children's books in the SN Library discussion today. Sue

Kiwi,

I sneaked in to Walmart's early this morning, pulled a book of the stack and read the ending so I too know who got knocked off.

Tiger Tom

Tom.....I will resub to Curious Minds. I have lived more than 2/3 of my life here so have studied all the ins and outs of my country of choice.

Bobbie

Bobbocoe,

Please do. I, and I hope others, would love to hear about the Australian National Day. Frankly, the only thing I have ever heard of early Australia is Botany Bay.

Tiger Tom

Tom......Botany Bay was where the first ship landed, but that bay wasn't appropriate so they shifted up the coast to Sydney Cove and formed a settlement where Sydney presently is......Sydney Town. If you're interested in learning more about Australia, here's some excellent books: (I have hardback copies of all of them)

HUGHES, Robert, The Fatal Shore. A comprehensive and compelling analysis of the convict history of Australia and how this impacts life today. Excellent individual chapters on Norfolk Island, Tasmania, bushrangers, women and Aborigines.

ATKINSON, Alan, The Europeans in Australia, vol. 1 Examines the forces leading up to the English decision to colonize Australia in 1787 and explores the ways in which the European ideas about spirituality, self and the land influenced the development of their settlement. An original perspective on the early history of Australia.

CHAPMAN, Don, 1788 The People of the First Fleet Gives information about the officers, sailors, wives & children and gives information about their lives in the colony.

COBLEY, John, Sydney Cove 1788, Sydney Cove 1789-1790, Sydney Cove 1791-1792, Sydney Cove 1793-1795. A day by day account of life in the new settlement using extracts from the diaries, journals, and documents of the time. Use the excellent index to find references to the progress of many of the First Fleet convicts after their arrival.

NICHOLAS, Stephen, Convict Workers: Reinterpreting Australia's Past. This reinterpretation of Australia's convict past is based on an analysis of the detailed records of 20,000 male and female convicts transported to Australia. After the initial hard years of the settlement, transportation to Australia meant a better diet, housing, hours of labor and welfare for convicts than that received by free men and women in England.

TENCH, Watkin, Sydney's First Four Years. Highly readable account of the earliest years through the eyes of one of the military officers sent on the First Fleet. It is alive with observations on the people and the environment in which they found themselves.

Good historical novels include: COURTENAY, Bryce, The Potato Factory. An historically accurate novel about convict life in Tasmania and the life of crime in London which lead Mary and her partner to be transported.

DARK, Eleanor, The Timeless Land, Storm of Time, No Barrier. (trilogy) Although this trilogy of novels is based on a fictional family, it is a solidly researched account of life in the early years of settlement. So well are they written it is often hard to remember that these are novels, not biographies.

MCCULLOUGH, Colleen, Morgan's Run. A novel, the first in a probable series by the author of Thorn Birds, about her ancestor Richard Morgan, a First Fleeter. In the database, you'll recognise the names of all those he came into contact with on his journey and on Norfolk Island in later years.

Bobbie

Bobbicie,

Thanks for the titles.

Tiger Tom

Bobbiecee: I got hooked on Nevil Shute in the 60s and could not read enough of them - could even go back now and read them all again!!! isak

Hammond Innes is another must read author. I have just read The Wreck of the Mary Deare again. Last read it as a teenager. I got more out of it this time. An excellent story teller.

Carolyn

Isak......I like Nevil Shute as well. BTW, I lived in Alice Springs for almost 20 years....remember 'A Town Like Alice.'

Bobbie

Bobbiecee: Yes, I remember that book - I should go up and get some Shute books again. By up, I mean the 6th floor stacks at the Library. I work at PCL (Perry-Casteneda Library, the main library at the University of Texas. It is such fun to go up and find nearly any book that comes up - I feel as if I have died and gone to Book Heaven!!! - another Texas-ism. I found "On the Beach" long ago when that movie came out, and then found the rest of Shute's writings....so it is time to have another look at them. Good Stuff, as one of the local National Public Radio announcers says. isak

ISAK.......I can identify with the joy you'd get on the 6th floor stack. I usually go to my branch library, but do sometimes go to the main library for the same reason as you. Absolute heaven.

I think it's time for everybody to re-read On the Beach....and to watch the movie again before nuclear disaster destroys the earth.

Bobbie

Nevil Shute. Oh me, I tore through all of his books so many years ago. I have read and reread On The Beach. It really still makes me think of what if...There is another book on that theme .. That having a senior moment I cannot remember just now.. Darn.. Anyway I live in Florida and this one definitely takes place in Sanford, Fl. not far from where I live and the Salt Springs mentioned in the book are quite close to Ocala. Oh dear... to remember the title and author now. The book is clear in my mind..

Stephanie.....was it Trouble in the Toolroom? I do remember reading a book where the story shifted to Fla, but can't remember which one it was.

Did anybody read 'Beyond the Black Stump'? That's one of my favourites. I have a love of the outback...in fact, lived in the centre of the outback for 20 years.

Bobbie

I am back into biographies. Got one yesterday on a famous NZ Paediatrician and allergist who I credit with saving Nickys life. Nicky grabbed it yesterday and took it home. Its interesting as she was one of the first women consultants in NZ who combined work with family life in the sixties. She died two years after we moved to the Bay of Islands at the relatively young age of 60. Nicky still remembers her and was thrilled to be able to read the story of her doctors life. The doctors name was Alice Bush - I remember her sitting in her office with Nicky on her knee while I ran over to the hospital pharmacy to get a brand new wonder drug - the drug that gave my daughter a life.

I also have the biography of Crazy Horse, I have only read the introduction and I am already hooked.

Carolyn

Carolyn - you've really tweaked my curiosity. What is the name of the book/author. Sounds like just the kind of book I like to read. The fact that you actually knew her would make it just that much more interesting. Don't leave me in suspense!

Diane I will have to wait til Nicky brings the book back to give you the info. It may be hard for you to get it in the USA - they may not have published it there. However I will research the publisher and you may be able to email Whitcoulls and get it from them if its still in print. Whitcoulls is one of our big book outlets. We also have Borders but they are relatively new in NZ.

Im not much of a reader. But when I do read books they are always biography's and true life stories. I just got done reading Bobby Knights book, and it was so good. I don't know why I like biography book but I do.

bobbiecee; I just read "Beyond the Black Stump" and I "got" it!! I really think he is such a good painter of pictures of people and locations. Also read the Twayne Authors series book about Shute - and that was instructive. I do need to go back and get the other really good ones....."A town like Alice" especially, and "Sliderule" which I have not read. (I tend to get enthusiasms for authors now and then, and really am glad that I can just hop on the elevator and go to 5th or 6th floor and find most. It gets interesting when I find some books that are cataloged in Dewey instead of Library of Congress - and so they are on another floor. Little by little, there is a project on here to convert the Dewey cataloging to LC....and then they will eventually all be shelved in the same place. (If the Lord is willin' and the creek don't rise)!! isak

Isak......Isn't 'Beyond the Black Stump' a wonderful book. You are so right, Nevil Shute paints excellent pictures of people and locations, and also gets the true flavour of the area he's writing about and even the culture and the mores of the people down pat. 'Beyond the Black Stump' is a true portrayal of the country, the people, their culture, etc. I lived 'beyond the black stump' for 20 years and his portrayal is spot on, the people, the country, everything. Same is true for 'A Town Like Alice.' I think I'll re-read both of them as well, and go on a nostalgia trip. I've been in SE Queensland for 20 years now but keep going back there for visits. Every time I cross the Queensland border into the Territory, I get a special feeling... 'I'm home.' I'm back in the land of the dinkum Aussie. Not that Brisbanites aren't dinkum Aussies. Brisbane still has the big country town flavour, the friendliness, etc. of the outback. It's just that it's a bit too citified for me. You can take the person from the bush but not the bush from the person. In Alice, the normally dry Todd River bi-sects the town. The saying is 'If you've seen the Todd flow more than 3 times, you'll be back again someday.' How true. It keeps drawing me back, about once every 3 years.

I'm like you, I get the same enthusiasm for authors that you do. I then reserve a wide range of books from that author and read all his/her books. I reserve the books via the net and ask for them to be sent to my local branch....1 km away, for pick-up.

Bobbie

All,

Anyone read a good book lately?

Tiger Tom

I just finished The Secret Life of Bees - and that's a good one. Isn't there going to be a discussion of that? I don't know when, though.

Just finished nonfiction "Looking at Philosophy: The Unbearable Heaviness of Philosophy Made Lighter" by Donald Palmer. It's a kind of 'Dummies' book with drawings; funny yet serious in its intention to show the different philosophers/philosophy. I got a greater understanding from this book than any other. It was easy to follow (I actually saw the linkage of thoughts from one philosopher to the next and the next -- a kind of philosophical conversation over the centuries). And a fun read.

Also just finished the acclaimed historical novel "The Leopard" by Giuseppe di Lampedusa. From the book jacket "With a beautifully combined sense of poignancy and irony, and deep psychological insight, Lampedusa brilliantly portrays the actions and meditations of Dan Fabrizio in a series of episodes that inexorably lead to death and the total disintegration of a way of life. Though the thems of 'The Leopard' is elegiac, the writing is entertainment of the highest order." A movie was made of this novel and the battle scenes are magnificent, some of the best ever filmed. I recommend this book.

Have just started reading a new nonfiction book: "The Devil in the White City" by Erik Larson, author of "Isaac's Storm." "...White City" is the Chicago World's Fair of 1863 (the buildings were painted white). So far so good.

Marvelle

Mary Z, Marvelle,

Mary, yes, I believe there is going to be a discussion on that book.

Marvellle, WOW. Sounds like fun reading.

Tiger Tom

I think there already WAS a discussion on the Secret Life of Bees. You could probably tell from checking the archives.

I looked in "Search" and there were lots of mentions of the book (The Secret Life of Bees), but if there was an actual discussion, I didn't find it. Nor did I find that it had been specifically set for one, either. So I guess it was a "no-go". Thanks, Diane, I forgot to look there.

Mary Z. - maybe, then, it was all the good things I heard being said by people who had read the book. Maybe we SHOULD have a discussion. Sorry I didn't have time to check it out more closely.

All,

Have a happy and safe Fourth.

Tiger Tom

Holiday weekend done.. Children gone back to own homes.. Whew.. a 20 month old grandson is exhausting.. How did I cope with two that were only 25 months apart.

Stephanie,

You were a lot younger then.

Tiger Tom

Amen to that, Tiger Tom. My 4 1/2 y.o. and 6 y. o. grandsons have been here 2 days all by themselves (no parents) and I am already tired. They will be here 2 weeks! To make matters worse, my dog is sick. Hopefully he'll be better tomorrow and the boys will be more attuned to my rules. No problems with bedtime, picking up toys, or putting clothes in the hamper. I've resorted to paying a nickel for the toys and clothes pickups. It works! Sue

Sue,

Occastionaly we go to California to take care of the Grandkids while their parents go to Hawaii. Don't mind but sure am glad when the parents get back.

Trying to keep up with a three year old boy who is full of pep and wants to play doesn't work if one is in the mid 60's and isn't up to snuff.

Still, we love them and love being with them. It is just that it would be more fun if the Parents were around.

Nice thing about being a Grand Parent is that you can give the kids back to Mom and Dad and retreat to rest.

Tiger Tom

Tom I love to see the grands but also love to see them go home after their stays! I am on my own so as I have 6 grands under 6 except for the 6 yr old they are very hard work. The youngest is 14 weeks. I am babysitting tonight and I babysat my two grandsons on the weekend. The grandsons are harder work than the two girls I am having tonight!

Carolyn

We're doing OK so far, but I have the added problem of a sick dog. He is feeling better today and I have let him out of his crate. I've been thinking he's enjoyed his stay in there as the boys can be kind of wild. I took them to the pool today and the youngest swam a little for the first time.

I've been reading to them every night. Tonight I'm starting a chapter book I enjoyed as a child, Mr. Popper's Penguins. Are you familiar with this book? Mr. Popper orders some penguins and keeps them in his refrigerator. It's a chapter book and may be a little advanced for a 6 y.o. and 4 1/2, but I'm going to see how it goes. Sue

Sue, I DO remember Mr. Popper's Penguins! It was a favorite. I can't remember the approximate age I was when our teacher read it to us but I suspect it's one of those that might cover a considerable age range.

I don't remember the story of Mr. Popper's Penguins but the title is VERY familiar. I don't think I read it to my children. Rather it is a book from when I was a child.

Mr. Popper's Penguins isn't familiar to me. However, It brought to mind a favorite of mine when I was a young girl. The Five Little Peppers and How They Grew. Can't remember who wrote it.

I remember the Five little Peppers! Did any of you read the Milly-Molly- Mandy series. It was about the adventures of a little girl called Milly Molly Mandy.I loved the books when I was about 6. I also loved the little Tar Baby and Brer Rabbit but they were removed for not being politically correct. Honest I was only 6 and I didn't have any prejudices at all. I just loved the Tar Baby- would have loved to get up to the naughty things he did. Surely they could have renamed him! I have been taking out the odd kids book and re reading my childhood favorites! They have not lost their appeal for me.

Carolyn

I know what you mean, Carolyn. I used to love "Little Black Sambo" and never in a million years would have thought it might be offensive to ANYone. How sad all this is.

I found a paperback copy of The Five Little Peppers at a book sale not too long ago. I used to love the Pepper family, but the rereading now was not that much fun. So far Mr. Popper's Penguins is standing up to the test of time. Do you remember Mrs. Wiggs and the Cabbage Patch? I also loved the Betsy, Tacy, and Tib series as well as Heidi and Black Beauty. Lots of the Caldecott Medal picture books and (shucks, I forget the other medal for chapter books) have stood the test of time and my children plus the many I taught loved the earlier winners, too. Robert McCloskey died recently and his books were and still are treasures. You can't beat good writing. Sue

I loved Heidi - Still remember vividly the gruff old Alm Uncle. The goats etc and Klara Herr Sesemanns daughter and great friend to Heidi. Peter the Goatherd!

Black Beauty and Clover - oh the tears I shed over that book. Have no idea how many times I read it - quite a few times!

I had little Black Sambo books too and a beloved Gollywog doll.

Carolyn

I have started to collect the Betsy~Tacy books. The Betsy-Tacy Society Home Page Maud Hart Lovelace's books were/are back in print.

Milly, Molly, Mandy! It was Millicent something Amanda, but what's Molly short for? I've racked my brains and drawn a blank!

Jan

All I can think of, Jan, is Molly Pitcher, the American Patriot. Or how about Moll Flanders? Isn't that a character in one of Fielding's novels? Perhaps Molly comes from a name that begins with M like Margaret or Martha? Sue

Moll Flanders is indeed a book by Henry Fielding. I read it for a course when working on my BS in English. Reading it was like reading a modern romance without all the sexual details.

Here is a link to Barnes and Noble Milly Molly Mandy

Sue,

The term you were looking for is "Newbery Award" for the award for the best chapter book for children in any given year.

It is hard to believe that just-starting-out teachers are not familiar with some of the older titles! When I was working as a school librarian "Mr. Popper's Penguins" was very much used by the teachers. As a matter of fact, I've been retired 10 years, and I still can't kick my love of juvenille literature, although I prefer Young Adult and middle school titles. Many of them are better written than what passes as adult fiction these days, in my opinion.

I agree, Lou Ann. I still have many of the books my own children loved and the books I used in the classroom. I can't find any of my Beverly Cleary books about Ramona Quimby and her friends. I think my little grandsons would love the very creative Ramona with her dolls named Bendix and Chevrolet. Children in grades 1-3 (even higher) got a big kick out of Ramona's antics. I might have given them to students when I retired 5 years ago. I have one more place to look for them. Sue

P.S. Thanks for refreshing my memory about the Newberry award books.

I just dropped in here to see what goes on and was amazed to see posts about the Five Little Peppers (and How They Grew). I was just thinking about that book the other day. I think it was actually a series, wasn't it?

Until I was about 12 we had no public library in our town so whenever we went to my Grandmother's in the summer (Arcade, NY), the first thing I did when I got in the door was run and ask for her library card. And the next morning I walked up to that little library for a treat. The Little Colonel series, the ones about twins such as The Little Dutch Twins, etc. For the whole two weeks we were there I lay on the chaise on the porch and read and ate the homemade candy from Belle Isle's the candy store/soda fountain on the way. I can still see that place in my mind. The oldfashioned soda table chairs, the big ceiling fans.... oh how good it was.

LouAnn, tonight when I was reading 2 chapters of Mr. Popper's Penguins to my grandsons, I noticed a big silver medallion on the front cover. This book is not the Newbery winner for 1938, but was a Newbery Honor Book, which means it was one of the finalists that year. Isn't it wonderful that today's children who are so addicted to TV and video/computer games still enjoy a book published in 1938? The boys want me to give the book to them to take home, but I don't think I will. They are not as careful with their books as I'd like them to be and this is a treasure. I got it in the SeniorNet book exchange discussion from Ginny Anderson. I was so excited when I saw it there. I was afraid I'd not get to her in time.

Hi, Jeanlock. It seems many of us SeniorNet readers started out the same way as early book lovers. Sue

Spring--

All during the time I was growing up my mother was aconstantly nagging me for "always having my nose stuck in a book" and predicted that my 'eventual' husband would come home to find last night's dishes stacked in the sink and no dinner ready.

Never happened.

I'm always amazed to find out how many of us read with a flashlight under the covers. Wow!

Jeanlock, I was frequently told "get your nose out of that book". My oldest niece told me when she was about 13 that she was often told she was just like Aunt Sue who "couldn't get her nose out of a book". I thought that was a badge of pride, but others in my family, while readers themselves, didn't appreciate how much she or I read. I still do, but have no one to tell me to get my nose out of the book. I can stay up all night reading if I want. Sue

Spring--

And I do, too. Stay up as late as I like reading. The book I'm reading right now, The Clinton Wars (Sidney Blumenthal) is very depressing, and after about 10 pp I'm so down that I have to put it away and go to something brighter. It's an 800 page book, and I'm only on p 86, and it's due back on the 22nd. May have to reserve it again.

I haven't read that, Jeanlock. I'm meeting my son and wife at the beach on Friday. I'm taking my grandsons down who've been with me 2 weeks tomorrow morning. My DIL has the new Hilary book and will bring it to me. My library is small and doesn't have much call for books about liberal political figures, so no hope of getting it there. Sue

I recently read about a third the way through Arianna Huffington's book, "Pigs at the Trough", then had to return it to the library (there was a list of other people waiting). Arianna is a syndicated columnist and appears occasionally on talk shows. She has a bright wit, impressive grasp of facts, nifty sense of humor, and is as upset as most of us are about corporate/political corruption. She isn't afraid to name names and I was crushed to have to return this, not having completed the book. This should be required reading at high levels and then those named should have to ANSWER to the errors of their ways.

After I dropped it, and others off, I found a new one, "The Case Against Lawyers", by Catherine Crier. The title seems pretty self-explanatory but I haven't started reading yet so can't say much more than that. Well, actually I just noticed that Arianna Huffington gave a pretty nice review on the back cover. That's enough for me!

Happy reading, everyone, from a fellow under the blankets with flashlight reader!

Diane--

You know Arianna H. used to be Republican. During the last election she and James Carvel used to face off on one of the news shows. Now she seems to have changed her politics.

I know what you mean, diane. I had two of my granddaughters sleep in the same room with us while on vacation. After 9 PM the lights went out, the TV went off and I chastised myself for NOT bringing a flashlight or a book-reading lamp with me on vacation. I swear, I must have lain there two hours berating myself, two nights in a row. My next vacation purchase will be one of those little reading lights for just that purpose.

jeanlock - actually I did not know that about Arianna. I remember her mostly because her husband made an unsuccessful run for office. They are now divorced and it appears that she was the real brains in the family. I imagine she and James Carville had some fairly spirited exchanges. I like the lady - she has a certain flair.

Oh dear, Alf, my sympathies! That must have been awful. Betcha it won't happen again! (grin)

Jeanelock,

Am finally getting in to "The Clinton Wars" It should be required reading for students of politics.

I am amazed and how one man can draw so much hatred for nothing.

Tiger Tom

Tiger--

So THERE you are. Somehow the other group seems to have disappeared. I've been getting just terribly depressed at how malicious politicians can kidnap the process. Of course I always knew the WSJ etc. were 'conservative', but I had never actually believed them to be EVIL. I can only read a few pages of that book at a time. Then my heart begins to race, my blood pressure rises and I have to go scrub a floor or something.

Jeanlock,

I can only take it in small morsels. I find it so hard to believe that there are people like that who live in this country. I guess I am naive.

I read a part of it and then spend the night going over what I read. I am not sure how much of the book is true but if only half of it is true I am saddened and worried about our country.

Tiger Tom

Jeanlock,

One thing in the book that stands out is the failure of our Print and Electronic Media. Massive failure.

Also, after riding out so much of the attacks on him and his wife, Clinton had to give his enemies the ammunition they needed when he let that female blind side him, Monika. He should have been able to see that she was a set up. Instead, he walked right in to it. What a guy gets by thinking with the wrong head.

Tiger Tom

Tiger--

I'm relieved that your reaction to the book is essentially the same as mine. Feared I might be becoming paranoid in my dotage.

His credentials are good, it's just that the "vast right-wing conspiracy" that Hillary cited at the time of the Lewinsky stuff and people ridiculed her for actually did, and does exist. I think it took extraordinary courage and determination for them to go on. I think I might have wilted.

Before I could go to sleep last night I had to read something more calming--a Scott Turow book.

But, all is not lost. Click on the following URL. I haven't laughed so much in weeks. Ever since Herb Block the Washington Post cartoonist died, I've had a serious political cartoon deficiency. Today, deciding to see what the S.F. Chronicle was up to these days, I found this. And I've been laughing ever since. This guy is good. Too bad they can't run animation in the newspaper. But I've put this on my desktop so I can cheer up whenever necessary.

http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/fiore/archive/

Enjoy and let me know what you think.

jeanlock and TTom - in answer to the title of this discussion, Why We Read What We Read? the answer in large part, for me anyway, is dropping in on discussions like the one you two are having. Next possible chance I'll see if my library carries it - and they BETTER 'cuz I really want to read it now. Thanks for the interesting conversation and now, please do carry on!

Jeanlock,

Loved it.

One other thing about the book: I was amazed at the pettiness in some of the characters in the book. People who seemed to be driven by small mindedness and jealousy. Green eyed envy. They would be the type who would call hard work "Dumb Luck." One who stood out was Sally Quinn. She seemed to feel that President Clinton or his wife did not give her due defference or to pay attention to her attempts to educate them on the social life of Washington.

Tiger Tom

Tiger--

Sally Quinn---

Guess I'll have to read faster. Haven't encountered her yet.

I've been dillying and dallying playing more of the Fiore animated cartoons. It's made my day. Heck! It's made my week.

You know, I made the decision to read the Clinton book based on the review in the Washington Post which was favorable. Now I think (after a suitable interlude for lunch and stuff) I'll check around on the net and see if I can find some other reviews. I'll probably buy it when it comes out in paperback. Must begin saving the pennies I pick up in the parking lot.

For another chuckle, go to google.com, and type in "google gag" in the search box. That brings up a bunch of entries about the page some one in England has created. It mimics the "Page not found" page you sometimes get when searching.

Jeanelock,

I bought the Hardback. It was my present to myself. Don't for what: Anniversary, Birthday, Christmas. I passed by the book a few times in Barnes and Noble. Read some reviews and bought the book. It was under 30 dollars. Needless to say, I will be referring to it from time to time.

Tiger Tom

Jeanelock,

Actually, my conscious is clear:

My wife smokes like a Chimmney. She buy a Carton of Gaspers a week. Even at the Indian Reservation they cost a few bucks. So, I buy books and she buys Fags. Even so, she will outlive me.

Tiger Tom

Jeanlock,

Had to stop reading the "Clinton Wars." Too depressing. I will get back to it in a day or so but couldn't take it any longer. Had to stop.

Tiger Tom

Tiger--

Glad to hear that it affected someone else as it did me. I started again last night but I was right at the part that details the ill-fated attempt to have a national health program and the more I read about how it the more depressed I got. So I picked up a Scott Turow, instead.

I have to take the book back on the 22nd, and I know there's a waiting list, so I'll just put my name on the list again and pick up where I left off. But eventually I'll buy it and include it in the 'historical' archives that I'm assembling as my legacy to family posterity.

I used to smoke; but one night sitting in bed reading, an ash flicked off onto the blanket and I decided I didn't want to run the risk of burning to death so I quit. Just like that. It was the last cigarette I ever smoked. I am a determined cuss and it served me well. Anyway, I could never have afforded cigarettes at the prices they are now.

Jeanlock,

One way to afford a book you want is to put the old price of a pack of Cigarettes (25 cents) into a jar every few days. I know, you might have gone through a pack a day but this way it isn't so tough on one finacially. It will add up in a while and you will find you can buy a book. New or at the half priced book store.

Of course, if your were to drop in the new price of a pack of cigarettes and did it every two days you could buy the library in a while.

Tiger Tom

Tiger--

It's a good suggestion but without going into detail, I just don't have 25 cents to put into my piggy bank every day. Usually I put change into a tin shaped like a British phone booth, and at the end of the month have a little to tide me over. This month a new car battery got it all upfront.

Books: Last night I was lucky enough to happen to tune into CSPAN-2 (booktv) just as Robert MacNeil was beginning his talk about his new book. After my complete disillusion about the way things are going in this country, it was like pouring a soothing balm over my soul. I didn't tape it, but this morning I checked and it will repeat on CSPAN-2 tonight at 11 pm (EST).

Hearing him set forth the things about America that influenced his decision in 1997 to become an American citizen (he was born in Nova Scotia) caused me to remember again how great and, yes, good this country is at its best. I strongly recommend watching it to regain a sense of quiet pride about what America is REALLY all about.

It's worth watching if only for his story of how in Feb. 1942, as an a boy and an avid stamp collector, he wrote to FDR telling him that he knew he was too busy with the war to play with his stamp collection and if he did have any extras, would he please send them. That story made my day. I'll put his book on reserve at the library. I really think that all Americans regardless of political persuasion would benefit from watching him.

Jeanlock,

Cannot get CSPAN-2 so will miss it.

I spent 30 some years, overseas, telling people how good and great the U.S. was and is. Watched my behavior so as not to reflect badly on the U.S. (Was not an "Ugly American.") I come back to the U.S. and found an entirely different country than that which I had left. I didn't recognize it. Some, many,, things were the same. However, there were some things that were not.

I am not sure that I would make a decision to become an American right now. Oh, the people from the Third World do it for economic reasons. Democracry, Freedom and the rest of it is meaningless to them never having had those things, but economic reasons do resonate with them. For someone from Canada it is different. Economically it is not particuarly advantageous to become an American and Canadians are just as Democratic and Free as are American citizens. So, there had to be something that attracted MacNeil. Wish I could see the program to find out what is was.

Tiger Tom

Tiger--

Well, you can always get the book at the library. And I've got 2 VCR/TV thingees and will be taping it. Would be glad to lend you a tape. After some of the rancorous posts I've been reading the last few days, this sort of restored the balance.

Jeanlock,

Will get the book from the Library. Thanks for the offer of the Tape but think I can have my brother tape it for me as he gets CSPAN-2.

Tiger Tom

I am answering this because I received an email from SeniorNet regarding this. I have not joined in to any discussion simply because there was little of interest to me in the books that were posted on the site.(the exception is the DaVinci code which I'm waiting for in paperback) It seems to me somewhat like the book reports my children and grandchildren were obliged to churn out in school. My tastes are eclectic, running from J.K. Rowling, Philip Pulliam, to Norah Roberts, Daniel Silva, David Baldacci, Edward Rutherfurd, Ken Follett et al, to books on the English Language, Classical Music Stitchery, Knitting and Corel Word Perfect etc, etc.I do have a complete collection of Shakespeare and the Bible.. What could I possibly contribute...you tell me Colkot

Colcot I too have just decide to contribute to this site. I do join in certain book discussions. Anyone who is well read, and you are, could definetly have something to say that would interest everyone. We are not here to take or give tests at least not in my experience. The authors you mentioned are all familiar to me and I have read something by each except Rutherford and if you think I didnt read Corel hand book well it was my bible on one computer my daughter lent me as it had Corel word perfect version for Mac 9 , which was not much like I had used in the office. Was much better, a newer version of course and in the Mac I was using it was just great word processor.

I dont read Classical music but I listen to it while I read. I did read it when I played violin as a youngster for eight years.

by the way I love nora roberts. I read the books I do for two reasons ..for entertainment, and to learn things. Faith

COLKOT, in the lower part of the heading here (also found in other SN discussions too) you'll see a clickable link called "Suggest a Book Discussion." Take a look at the link and add your own suggestions. If there's interest in the title(s) you mention, a discussion can come out of it. We all love to hear of possible reads.

_________________________

Here's another place to suggest a book: SN Great Books will be voting soon on the next discussion and one of the suggestions is Shakespeare's "Hamlet".

Please check out Great Books and add other titles if you like. The volunteer discussion leaders (DLs) let you know when it's time to vote for your choice from the suggested titles. Please, please vote if something interests you from the three lists of "Great Books" in the GB heading. The Harold Bloom list has some more recent books that are 'possible Greats' and those books are also considered for a discussion.

_________________________

I hope to meet you in a discussion soon. People may post in a specific book discussion once a week, or every few days, or even every day. Each of us participates as much or as little as we like and/or as time permits. I love Shakespeare too. A few months ago we discussed "Julius Caesar" which was a treat and I'd be thrilled if we did more of Shakespeare's work.

Marvelle

COLKOT: Welcome. Here are the links for the two places MARVELLE suggested you visit:

Suggest a book for discussion.

nominate a book for Great Books.

Great.. I suppose I'm just as curious and interested as the rest of you!! Funny how one learns Corel, uses it daily at the SeniorCenter I volunteer at and then.....as our dear sponsors use Microsoft...teach all the seniors how to use Word!! ah it's a sad life!!! I live in Chicago and just had the opportunity to visit the new Apple/Mac store on Michigan Avenue...I don't often salivate over Computers (being the practical sort) but this place.....I'm seriously considering replacing my pc with one of these beauties.... but I digress...Edward Rutherford writes books on England (where I'm from originally) Long books of the Michener type.The book on classical music is only reference, I'm a classical music buff, have it on all the time at home.. was spoilt in England because you could go to concerts & arts events very cheaply growing up Colkot

FaithR, Colkot,

Welome. I haven't looked in on this discussion for a bit. Usually nothing going on. It has been some time since anyone has posted here.

Marvelle, Majorie, Thank You for the advice and the clickable's you have provided.

Tiger Tom

colkot--

I think it's almost a scandal that most companies use Word because Microsoft provides it already on their PCs. I've used WordPerfect since before the fables version 5.1. And not only does it load faster than Word, it's just a much better product generally. (I've lost more than one document to MSWord's 'macro' virus). At a trade show recently, I talked to a man from Corel, and in the newest version of WP, you can print out the format codes. Wow!!!

COLKOT.....I don't participate for the same reasons. I did participate actively in one book I found interesting, however. I don't expect that in a group as large as SN, that my interests would necessarily coincide with others. I also have a problem in that I don't want to buy the books but reserve them at the library, and often they don't become available until the discussion is half way through. If I'm half-way interested in a book, I sub to that discussion and read it, then decide if I'm still interested.

Bobbie

Hi tigertom and all of you readers. Colcot is Edward Rutherford the one who wrote Lundun and another I cant remember the title I read was about the growth of a seaport city. It had a long part describing the building of this Cathedral. I think those were wonderful books but I read them very long a go also Russ may have been by him, book about russia in the same manner of writing. If I have the right author in mind he is very good and I wish I remembered the name of that one re: the cathedral.

I drop in here every so often. I am not active in any book right now and Curious Minds is over for awhile so I am just browsing all over. So nice to see old friends and readers. Faith

Colcot - There are some very good minds in SN and I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussions I have participated in so far. Believe me the discussions have much more depth than a book report. After all they continue for a month. I have read books I would never have bought myself and enjoyed them. I like all types of books from fiction to non fiction and I am one of the library's most voracious readers. Sometimes I like to read something light just as an escape and other times I like to sink my teeth into a good non fiction. I have just started reading JK Rowling and surprised myself by the enjoyment I got from pure fantasy. I am not usually that keen on fantasy. I just gave my daughter who is finishing a post grad degree the first Harry Potter book for her birthday. She says friends at Varsity have collected the whole series and thoroughly enjoyed them. I told my daughter she will get the second book for Christmas and so on.

Carolyn

Kiwi,

I have read all of the Harry Potter books including the last one. I think that they are fun. I see no harm in them. I guess there are some who do.

Tiger Tom

Kiwi, I am reading my second Harry Potter book. I am also reading The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien. I have fallen in love with fantasy. Imagine my age! Lolll.

Hats I think its timely to be reading fantasy with all the mess in the world. An escape!

Carolyn

Harry Potter,

Nice way to get in to your second childhood without showing it.

Tiger Tom

Hey everyone, Faith Tigertom and all Yes Rutherford is the fellow London, Sarum, The Forest & Russka are all his. The cathedral book you are probably thinking of is Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett... Fascinating.. .Is anyone familiar with Lesley Pearse? My favorites of hers are "Ellie" and "Camellia" which dealt with life as I knew it. Her book "Trust Me" talks about with children who were shipped off to Australia from England and what happened to them..In view of current news events very pertinent. Another one of hers..which deals with life in USA pioneers, SanFrancisco etc.. is "Don't Look Back" Being a WW@ survivor I am just now reading a few books about that. Daniel Silva's "The unlikely Spy being one of them" Colkot

"Trust me" could well be a very good book for discussion here. How about it leaders? I love books based on real life and discussing these type of books is a good thing. Past injustices should be talked about.

Kiwi,

Will see about proposing it.

Will get back to you in a bit on this.

Tiger Tom

Kiwi Lady,

I think that Marjorie will take up your suggestion on "Trust Me" She has posted elsewhere about it. I have suggested that she propose the book and if the proposal is accepted that she lead the discussion.

Of course, even if the book wins approval it still means that there must be a quorum of those interested in discussing the book.

Tiger Tom

kiwi Lady,

I did not mean that Marjorie would lead any discussion of the book. I only suggested that she might if she were interested. Of course, it would be her decision if she were to do so or not.

Tiger Tom

Delighted to find that this book may be of interest to many people. I like books that are based on history(as you may have gathered) I also put forward this suggestion. Thanks TigerTom and all Colkot

The voice of a newcomer to S.N.... As someone so aptly put it earlier, "...because I've always read". I went through a phase about 20 years ago when I read only non-fiction. A few years back, I decided to switch to fiction so I was kind of starting from scratch as far as scoping out authors that I liked. "Pillars of the Earth" was one of my early reads. Though Follett is not my style in his other works that particular story was amazing. The past couple of years I have been searching out stories that are set in various parts of the U.S. and particularly in the 1930s and '40s.(times of my youth) My current read is "East of the Mountains" by David Guterson,(Apple country of Washington State) Recently I picked up a paper back by David Baldacci that was excellent though out of character for him called "Wish You Well".(Western mountains of Virginia) This variety satisfies my pleasure of a good story along with a strong interest in geography and how people live in other parts of the country. I've already started a list of titles from some given here. Mary

Welcome, Macou33,

Glad to have you aboard.

Hope you stay with us. You will find a great group in this discussion.

Tiger Tom

I have ordered 3 Lesley Pearce books on line from the library. Trust me is a sound recording so I will enjoy that. As I have been trained in speed reading its hard for me not to apply this skill to fiction. When I listen to a book I get all the detail whereas its almost impossible now for me to read the written word normally. I can read a novel in an hour. That is an average sized one. A Big book may take 2-3hrs. I ordered Father Unknown also and the other one escapes my memory. Will let you know what I think of all of these books after reading them.

I read a lot of Taylor Caldwell when I was younger. I enjoyed her very much. I should like to read some of her books again.

There is so much to read and so little time! LOL

Carolyn

Carolyn - so interesting what you said about speed reading. It was something I always wondered about but I think you answered my questions. I just cannot imagine reading a whole book in an hour. I'm a fairly fast reader but not that fast. Do you ever have to just force yourself to slow down a bit to really savor a particularly well-written passage? Just wondering.

I read some Taylor Caldwell in my earlier years, too, and really liked them. Someday I'd like to read "Dear and Glorious Physician" again.

Yes I do have to force my brain to stop and read a good passage. The speed reading may have been good for study and a great work tool but boy it has spoiled my recreational reading!

Carolyn

Yes yes YES YES yes yes yes! I read too fast. I have abandoned all those tricks they tell you to get you up to those stratospheric heights of WPM but I noticed a few years ago I had developed a habit of...get this...drumming my fingers on the book page to slow myself down! Have you ever heard of anything like that? Jeepers. As it is, tho, now that I'm getting older, I no longer need that distraction, hahahaha I need to concentrate, but still read much too fast, and I think that's why, if I am reading a book whose method of expression is really alien to me, I just can't finish it, has that ever happened to you? There's nothing wrong with the book itself, it's just written in a way that causes you to reread and reread and reread and you still don't get the gist!

Maybe it's so different from our own phraseology it slows us down: maybe I should force self to read it, so I can learn.

I agree totally , Carolyn, in some ways being able to read fast is a disappointment: on my trip a friend gave me a super biography: gone in two days and only read at night, oh well, it's no problem to say I've read a lot of books lately. hahahaha Now if you ask what I got OUT of them, that's another matter!

Ginny......I identify with you in re speed (fast) reading, and have to do the same thing, put my finger on the line, to slow myself down. Part of the problem is that I still engage in speed reading when reading my many national and international newspapers, and reports, on a daily basis. Therefore, when I want to enjoy the 'word paintings' in a good novel, I consciously slow myself down. Another trick I use is to read aloud what people are saying.....different voice for different characters. One wonders if the neighbour thinks I have people visiting....of course I read in bed at night, so my neighbour might think I have a man in my bedroom when I'm reading a male character.<g>

Bobbie

Bobbie, how interesting, I might try that, actually, the reading aloud and thank you for making me feel not quite so ahahah strange.

Agatha Christie used to do all her dialogue aloud? She'd walk and talk out the parts till they sounded authentic and she also reports people thought she was crazy, but I guess it worked, I had not thought of that. And it would only work with a book you really wanted to immerse self in, for instance, the new Oryx and Crake: wash my mouth out! Wouldn't utter those words if you paid me!

Why, I asked in Fiction, WHY do perfectly good authors feel they have to inject nastiness in a book, or am I (like I don't know the answer to this one haahhaha) just getting old?

ginny

Are there any refugees from the Virginia group hanging out here? If so, please post in Virginia because we want to set up another luncheon in Sept.

Thanks.

Hi Ginny, I don't believe your interest in reading a good story without "nasty content" as you put it is age related. Of course I'm in the over 70 group, but I have found many excellent story tellers that capture my interest and do it without using crude descriptions. To me they are the writers who are skilled enough to tell a good story without that. My good friend and neighbor who is an avid reader calls it, "soft porn" and I have to agree with her. When I have read a book that I really enjoy and has been written without that, I usually try to contact the author and compliment such good work. I use the public library for my reading source and the more I look, the more I find there are many,many excellent authors that suit my taste in reading. I took the Speed Reading class years ago but find that I need to read more slowly in order to really grasp the setting and cast of characters. Mary

I am reading a collection of childhood memoirs by famous writers from Australia, NZ, Canada and USA. It is called In Her Own Words edited Jill Ker Conway. I am really enjoying it.

Writers are: Patricia Adam Smith- Lillian Hellman

Rosemary Brown- Dorothy Hewitt

Kim Chernin- Robin Hyde

Lauris Edmond- Sally Morgan

Shirley Chisolm- Dorothy Livesay

Janet Frame- Gabrielle Roy

Its such an enthralling book. I am finding it hard to put down.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I remember Shirley Chisholm. I hope she is still living. I haven't heard anything about her in awhile.

I agree, Macou! I'm just not willing to keep ON in a book where the content, to me, is disgusting, shame, I'm sure I will miss many an important book, but the greatest writers didn't need to stoop to it, it almost feels like a psychotherapy session, I resent it. Then again, I'm reading Gandhi and everything seems non important when you read him.

Carolyn, that does sound like a super book, we read Jill Ker Conway here in the Books some time ago. I'd love to do an entire series on Writers From Other Countries, and we've certainly not done New Zealand Writers, what a good suggestion. And IS it more about Women or what? I'm going to order it. I did order a book like it about Irish Women but had a terrible time getting thru it, yours sounds much more enticing.

One of the really neat things about reading fast is the ability to read many books at once so I'm now deep into Sixpense House: Lost in a Town of Books, non fiction about a move to the famous town in Wales, Hay on Wye. Somebody here in the Books mentioned it and I'm going to talk more about it in our Non Fiction selections, come on up if you're interested: it's really fine, a book FOR readers, and you'd like what he says about readers, I think.

ginny

It was lovely to see so much feedback on some comments I had made... I've read the David Baldacci " Wish you well".. I also liked his "The Winner"...and Taylor Caldwell's books... Let's see how you like Lesley Pearse's books.. Has anyone read anything by Di Morrisey... from Australia... "Tears of the Moon" to do with Australia and pearlfishing. (OK...I'll let you into a secret.. it's an open one... I'm the mother of Casey Siemaszko and Nina Siemaszko... both actors...if you watch West Wing or NYPD Blue you've seen them.. if you're a movie buff, they turn up in movies..I've travelled to visit sets with them.. sometimes in US & Canada and sometimes abroad) The Morissey book I picked up in Australia in 1999 and there are others by her "Last Rose of Summer" also comes to mind. Hope everyone survived blackouts, weather and so on Colkot

colkot--

I thought I must be losing it yesterday. Still trying to finish Caldwell's Captains and Kings, and the news kept coming up with one thing after another similar to what she was fussing about in the book. It was a really strange feeling. I have a hard time believing that those two explosions yesterday just happened to occur on the same day and were so much more extensive than previous Iraqi sabotage events.

Lack of Life,

There is, and has been, so little movement in this discussion that I may have to start making Book assignments with the expectation of witten reports on them.

Tiger Tom

Too busy reading to explain why.

Why, Tom, you do have a mean streak! (kidding)

But, like jeanlock, boy, it's hard to be reading through stacks of books, magazines, and newspapers, plus checking out what's new at SN, and then posting too! Of course, that's what makes everything so wonderfully interesting here and yes, if we don't post, how will anyone know all this neat stuff, right?

I stopped in a thrift shop recently and for 50 cents each picked up Art Buckwald's book, While Reagan Slept, Tip O'Neil's autobiography, Lewis Thomas's book, Late Night Thoughts on Listening to Mahler's Ninth Symphony (what a title, aye?), and one other...forget. Just because they were there and so affordable, why not?

From the library I have reserved The Perricone Prescription because it has been raved about in my Alternative Medicine discussion group. And also Keith Miller's "The Taste of New Wine" because our pastor raved about it last Sunday.

Browsing in a Waldenbooks while in our nearby "city" of Chico yesterday (this was a thrill because up where we live there are only used book stores) I chanced upon a book called, The Unauthorized Guide to Finding a Church. It looked intriguing so last night I ordered it at amazon, along with a book, the name of which and author I forget (not fair to either!) but saw the author on Charlie Rose the other night. He, the author, is a psychiatry professor at Harvard with a strong bent toward the theological. The book concerns a what-if situation between Sigmund Freud (an atheist) and C.S. Lewis (a Christian author)debating their two points of view. Irresistible!

I had resolved not to let myself get into this situation again, of too many books coming in from too many directions, but gee whiz, it sure is fun!

Well, Tom, you DID ask!

Diane,

Yup, I did ask.

You sound like I am, Books everywhere, most have book marks in them, no room for any more and I am buying new books, used books and joining Book Clubs for the cheap intial books (four books for 99 cents or one Dollar) and either no obilgation or just buy one book in two years.

I will never, never, ever read all of them but I cannot help getting new ones. My one dread is what will happen to them when I am gone. I hate to think of my books ending up in the Good Will. I don't want my collection broken up. My Daughter promised me she would take care of them but she has no room in her home because she too is a book nut and has enough of her own.

BTW, are any of you going to join in the Ghandi, Freedom at Midnight or the Benjiman Franklin discussions?

Tiger Tom

Hello, Jean, I don't mean to "put you on the spot" here, but would you please just do a brief review on "The Captains and the Kings". I believe I've read it, but just can't quite be sure. The title seems very familiar. Was this the story of the immigrant who came penniless to Philadelphia, made his fortune in Oil in Titusville,PA and went on to become very powerful.

David Baldacci......I really enjoyed Wish You Well, but didn't think I would care for his other books. However I did follow up on "The Christmas Train" and am reading it now. His style is so good in this book. It's one of those that some of you probably read in one sitting, but I'm enjoying it at a slower pace. We just had three days camping on Lake Ontario and it is always so good to have a good book along. When we are just relaxing I like to alternate between the book and knitting on my 36 inch bandage for our church women's mission project.

I have The Taste of New Wine, but haven't read it through. Picked that one up at a garage sale after hearing it discussed in a church group. Seems like I have another book by Kieth Miller as well, but can't place it right now.

Anyone here read any of Robert Morgan's stories. His stories are set in South Western North Carolina and give early history of that area. Gap Creek was the first I read and it drew me back to his other stories about the early families of the mountain country. Mary

Tom, You shouldn't worry so about your books maybe going off to Goodwill. Think of all the pleasure some lucky person will have to find so many good titles there for a small price. I like to go to Goodwill, just to see what treasure I might find and a friend of mine who is an avid reader is often there just loading up with paper backs. I'm not much for reading a book more than once, so I don't buy any fiction anymore unless it is a garage sale find and then I pass it on after I've read it.

My bigger problem is remembering what I've read. Oh how I wish that I had kept a list of titles over the years. Usually I recognize a book within the first chapter.......but not always. Mary

macou--

Yes, that's the one. I couldn't have summarized it so well even if I copied from the dust jacket which I intended to do til I read your post. The 'hero' (anti-hero?) plans to have his elder son become the first Catholic president. (Time of action in book is from late 1800's to early 20th century, (Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, etc.) She even mentions JFK's reference to the Gnomes of Zurich in her forward.

Somehow I didn't 'get' it when I read it in the 70's (written in 197x) but she is obviously likening the son to JFK. The son, at a pivotal moment, is assassinated by an anonymous assassin who is subsequently shot by an unidentified person. Her thesis is that a politician who figures out the Gnomes of Zurich presence and attempts to overcome it is doomed to be assassinated by an unknown assassin. And she also talks about the assassinations of one of the Czars of Russia (Before Nicholas), the Serbian man whose assassination began WWI, etc.

We've also been talking about the "Gnomes" in the Political forum.

Tom--

I, too, am concerned about what will happen to my books when I die. My kids get first pick, of course, but the books I've kept throughout many wholesale cullings are books that are worth being concerned about. The library just sells them. But I'd rather give the various sub-collections to a place where they would be read. I've thought of checking out senior citizen residence libraries, etc. But I just know that even after cremation and scattering there's a speck of me that will not rest easy if those books are undervalued.

Macou33, Jeanlock,

I have spent so many years buying and collecting books that it just hurts to think of them being scattered to the wind. Foolish I know, but there it is.

Around here the books at a garage sale are Harlequin Barbara Courtland for the most part or Reader Digest books, not my cup of tea. I have given up Garage sales for books. Library have the Friends of the Libaray Book Sales twice a year but one has to be first in line to have a chance of finding the rare good buy. It is usually a race to the same table by about the same people.

Up in the Big City the public Library there has sales several times a year. Unfortunately, it is a 100 mile drive each way and I never hear about the sale until it is almost over.

I have two books that I intend to read in conjunction with one another: The Clinton Wars and Living History by Mrs Clinton. Should be interesting comparing what is in them.

Nice to know that there is still life in the Discussion. I can't seem to come up with something to stimulate it. Any ideas?

Tiger Tom

Why we Read what we read? It makes me giggle, as I don't much care what I read (especially if I am out of good books.)

While away, I snoop around people's homes and offices and always manage to come up with something. (With their permission, of course.)

Tom--

I finally gave up on the Clinton Wars. I'll buy them both when they come out in paperback.

Our little branch library has book sales every two weeks. Hardbacks a dollar, paperback for 50 cents. After 4 days the price halves, and on the last 2 days you can take home a box full for a dollar. The Central Library has a big annual sale, but their prices are twice as much so I don't even try on the first few days.

In Northern VA, there are two McKay's book stores that will buy and sell used books. They give a good price, based on the actual trade value of the book, ---better than the little local used-book stores--, and yet their sales prices are also good. Right now I have an $18 credit so really must get up there and look for some goodies.

You might try checking out some of the online 2nd-hand book places. I recently got a copy of a particular book I wanted (paperback, very yellowed pages, but readable) for .88--but it cost me $4 for shipping.

But there are some good prices out there. For example, I want eventually to get the complete set of DVDs of the original Forsyte Saga TV series. It lists for $150, but I found a place where I could get it for 92 dollars ----if I just had 02 dollars.

Jeanlock, Alf

I still struggle with the Clinton Wars, I am waiting for the Living History to arrive (I am getting it in the four book deal I got from a book club, four books for 98 cents each and a huge S&H.)

No used book stores here. Three have opened and gone belly up fairly fast. This not a literate area. People by and large don't read. The California people who come to live here do read as most are professionals who have retired up here. But there are not enough of them to support a used book store. (Waldens the one new book store in the Mall, is doing a pretty good business.) The problem with the used book stores was their prices, too high.

Alf, I also look at people's book shelves when I visit their homes. I look to see how many different book plates (that are in the books) with different names on them. Too many and I know that I don't want to lend a book to the person. Used books will have book plates in them but anyone who has so many different books with different names on the book plates probably got the book by borrowing and not returning. I hate that. I have lost a good number of book through the years that way.

I usually try to buy new books rather than used and hardback rather than softback. I have a number of books that I bought in the Good Will but most of them were in very good shape and looked almost new.

Whenever I go to a book store I get sweaty palms. I want the books in there so much.

Tiger Tom

Hahah Iknow just what you mean Tiger Tom. I am guilty of that myself and find it difficult to walk past a book store, of any kind. I just naturally "gravitate" and my husband will look at me, shrug and say, "I'll meet you at ----- in an hour" and go merrily on his way.

Alf,

I have my wife drop me off at the Barnes and Nobel when we are in the nearest big town while she goes to the Home Depot. She can spend hours puttering in that place and I can spend hours in the Book Store. I always prowl the Bargain Books first and that will take up some time. Then I will go pull something off a shelf, find one of the Easy Chairs and read for an hour or so. Unfortunately, B&N have taken out most of the easy chairs these days.

Tiger Tom

Tom--

I know JUST what you mean. I learned to read EVERYTHING by the end of 2nd grade, and in our town there was no library as yet. And we probably had fewer than 20 books in the house. (At least I read Les Miserables, David Copperfield, and Tale of Two Cities at an early age). I swear to you, that whenever I went into someone's house, my eyes were searching everywhere to see if they had any books I could borrow. And when the library finally did open when I was about 12, I was sitting on the steps when the door opened. And couldn't get the card for a week, and sat right down at one of the tables and a book there, that afternoon. (I was only allowed in the Junior section, books were easy).

Beggars can't be choosers, and I take any version of a wanted book I can get. And I really don't like to read library books because, to me, retirement means NO DEADLINES.

Jeanlock,

I am not sure what my life would have been like if I could not read or never had anything to read. No books in our house so the Library was a second home to me. Unfortunately, I the ability to read and understand far in advance of my age but I was forbidden to check out books out of my age group. I would sneak in to the Library and take a book off the shelf and go in to a corner to sit and read it. Got caught one day and was watched from then on. Now days a child is allowed to seek it's own level. I guess that may be the reason I have so many books, trying to catch up.

Tiger Tom

Tom--

I had to get special permission from my parents to be able to check books out of the adult section. And I was in my mid-teens by that time. There was a particular book about doctors that had caught my attention, and I WANTED to read it.

Mother used to have to lock up the cereal boxes, and turn the calendars to the wall so I would eat instead of reading them. It's a compulsion-----if it's got words, I MUST read it. The first thing I did when I got married was join the Book of the Month Club. And later, the Heritage Book Club. When those books came, I'd just handle them and 'feel' them for a while before I even opened them Still have some of the Heritage ones, and my kids have the rest.

Incidentally, my late husband shared the same compulsion, and we had a great time. Used to sit in bed and read. When one of us came across an interesting bit, we'd read it aloud. You know, there's a very interesting set of books (3) called Children of Pride, edited by Robert Manson Meyers you might try to get from the library. It's a collection of letters among one Savannah family from just before until just after the Civil War. I was so taken by how much their emotions and reactions were the same as ours. When I visited Savannah on an educational tour, we had dinner at the home of Conrad Aiken's widow. I was in the dining room talking to one of the local men and telling him about how much we had enjoyed reading that set and he pointed to a tea service up on a shelf, and said, "That belonged to x, one of the women in the book." I just got goosebumps. Would have liked to visit the cemetary where they were buried, but didn't manage it. But I'm sure you would enjoy those books. In fact if they were still available, they'd make a great book discussion.

jeanlock, many thanks - I just reserved it at my local library.

Diane--

You mean Children of Pride? If so, you're in for a treat. For the time you're reading, you'll almost imagine yourself back in time. Guess I will have to live to 100, I'd like to reread them myself. Then there's the 6 books of Trollopes Parliamentary Series (the Pallisers), and ......

There is also a diary/journal essays written by Mary Boykin Chesnut, about her life during the Civil War. I believe she lived in South Carolina, but could be mistaken. I've forgotten the title, will go to Google and see if I can find it. This was an account of her life with her husband away in the Confederate Army. Sue

The following is found at the UNC rare books site. This book is still located in our small public library in Union Springs, Alabama. Mrs. Chesnut has some descendants in this area.

Chesnut, Mary Boykin. A Diary from Dixie, as written by Mary Boykin Chesnut, wife of James Chesnut, Jr., United States Senator from South Carolina, 1859-1861, and afterward an Aide to Jefferson Davis and a Brigadier-General in the Confederate Army. Ed. Isabella D. Martin and Myrta Lockett Avary. New York: D. Appleton, 1905.

jeanlock - yup, Children of Pride. You gave it such a glowing review and when it turned out my library had it, well - it's things like this that keep my home from sparkling. Guess I'd rather be looking at the pages of a good book than how large that cobweb up in the corner is growing!

Spring Creek--

The family in 'Children...' was the family of a minister who had a plantation, and owned slaves. However, he could never quite come to terms with slave owning and had his sons educated as a doctor and a lawyer so that they would not be forced to earn their living as slave owners. As they say nowadays, he was very conflicted about the situation. Now I will have to reread those books. I've got myself all fired up again. And there's a charming episode when one of the women is about to deliver a baby and they make arrangements to have the little girl stay with someone else until it's over. There's just so much in the little details of daily living that hasn't really changed throughout history.

Thanks, Jeanlock. I'll have to see if I can find it in my public library. It sounds interesting, too. Sue

Diane--

I know what you mean. I was typing away here yesterday afternoon when I became aware of a horrible burning smell. Sure enough, had tried to bake a cake in a pan that turned out to be too small and it had cooked over all over the oven. Thankfully I did have an oven liner so it wasn't as bad as it might have been. Still, cleaning a burned oven isn't high on my list of favorites.

Diary of Dixie.. Oh me, I read that one and have made a note to look for the other. I love Diaries..

Jeanlock,

I too will read anything. I read Cearl Boxes too. I have a library in the Bathroom.], A stack of books by my Bed, and magazines all over the house. I am never far from something to read.

If I ever dig my way out of what I have to read now I will certainly try to read the books you recomended. Might be a few Decades (if I can live that long.)

Tiger Tom

Tom

Let's hope you DO live that long. The bathroom book pile is the Atlantic Monthly; the stack by the bed is a 5-shelf bookcase, piled too deep.

And every room in the house is book-populated: manuals, standards, etc.

And, oh yes: a book in the car, and another in my purse.

Jeanlock,

I don't dare carry a book in my car. I would be too tempted to read a page or two while driving down the road, not recommended. I don't carry a Purse. I don't want to tote a book around for fear of laying it down and forgetting it. I have done that a few times on Airplanes: Plane lands, everyone gets reading to debark, I put a book, that I had been reading, down and forget it in my hurry to get off the Plane. Same thing in an ordinary day if I were to carry a book. Something would distract me and I would lose another book. It isn't the price so much (although that does count) it is the bother of having to go buy another copy of the book I was carrying.

Tiger Tom

Tom--

A book in hand is 'something to do' during interminable waits in doctor's offices, eating alone, etc. Wouldn't be without one.

The book in the car is just in case I forget to put one in the purse; not for reading while driving.

There's an internet 'thing' called Book Crossings where you sign up to be a member, and agree to now and then leave a book in a public place. The book has a label inside saying it's a 'Book Crossing' book and asks the finder to post a message about when and where they found it. I've dropped off 2 in the elevator at the doctor's office, but haven't checked recently to see if they've been picked up.

Jeanlock,

Couldn't part with a book, no matter what.

I know that it would be for a good cause but I am to wedded to books, it would be like giving up an arm.

Tiger Tom

Jeanlock,

Perhaps I will have all of my books Bronzed and buried with me when I go.

Tiger Tom

Tom--

Perhaps you could bronze them and build a mauseleum with them.

If I had kept all of my books I'd have no place to sit down. You just have no idea how many there have been over the years. Periodically, usually when I've been moving to a new location, I cull the ones I don't really care to keep, put them in a stack on the floor with a pile of grocery bags and invite either friends or coworkers to come in and take their pick. Hugely successful events, but a few years later I'm still swamped. Both daughters have at least 1 5-shelf bookcase filled with my books. Every once in a while I have to ask to 'borrow' one.

Don't know whether I explained to you, but Bob and I were a computer match, circa 1967. We liked all of the same things: books and records being chief among them. When we'd go somewhere for even overnight we'd spend a week filling a shopping bag with the books to take. And even if we only had $10 til payday, and I wanted to buy a book or record, he'd have been likely to ask me if I were sure I didn't want two?

Jeanlock,

Now the Masuseleum is an idea.

I have moved a number of times in my career (about every two years) but never culled my books until this year when I gave 15 bags of books to the Library for it's book sale.

It has always been so hard to part with a book.

Tiger Tom

Tom--

I always calculate the chances of replacing the books I cull. If the chances are slim, such as Mrs. Gaskell's Life of Charlotte Bronte, I hang on to the book. Even tho I've given away several copies of Archy and Mehitabel I always make sure I have one for myself.

Now, for something else.

Over the weekend, I read reviews of two new books that I believe would make very good books for serious discussion. (And I'd even participate in the discussions, honestly.)

I'm posting a bit about them both, with my comments about why they would make good discussions ------for reasonable discussers, not just cussers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29251-2003Aug21.html

Fiction reviewed by Jonathan Yardley:'The Known World' by Edward P. Jones

The bizarre world of American slavery has been the subject of much fiction, some of it uncommonly good, from Harriet Beecher Stowe to William Faulkner to Toni Morrison. This extraordinary novel -- the best new work of American fiction to cross my desk in years -- takes as its subject one of the most peculiar anomalies of that endlessly provocative and troubling subject: In the antebellum South, where whites systematically enslaved blacks, there were free blacks who themselves owned black slaves.

[I think a discussion of blacks owning blacks would be interesting, and was most interested in this review. I'd not want to do a discussion until after first of the year (Christmas is acommin and I have to begin my projects now. That takes my time and spare cash.)

The second book is

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40369-2003Aug24.html

THE KILL CLAUSE; By Gregg Hurwitz; Morrow. 388 pp. $24.95

Sheriff's deputies soon report that they have caught a man who has confessed to the crime. Rackley, who is both a decent man and an extremely lethal former U.S. Army ranger, drives to the isolated spot where the suspect is being held. The deputies are giving him an opportunity to kill the suspect with impunity; they will plant a gun on the man and say Rackley acted in self-defense. But Rackley, for all his rage and grief, cannot bring himself to shoot the man, who seems to be retarded. And in part, he hesitates because the man hints that he had an accomplice, and Rackley wants to pursue that possibility. So he chooses to trust the legal system to punish the killer. When the man has his day in court, the judge frees him because the deputies bungled his Miranda warning.

This book deals with the pros and cons of vigilante justice. And that should make for an interesting discussion.

I've posted the links with the titles, so take a look and see what you think.

Jeanlock,

both books sound interesting. For me the second book would be especially interesting. Let me look in to how and where to suggest a book for discussion and I will get back to you on it.

Tiger Tom

Tom--

NOT til after Jan. 1

I don't usually read 'thrillers' but that one did appear to have something discussable in it.

Jeanlock,

go to "fiction/Non-Fiction Suggestions"

you can nominate both books for discussions.

Tiger Tom

tom,

Thanks.

I've been on the PC and seniornet for about 3 hours now, and there goes my day. It's 1:30 already. By the time I get to the store and back, it's too late to embark on a 'project'. So, guess I'll take tomorrow off.

VOTE for the next BOOK CLUB ONLINE selection! We want to hear from YOU! Come on over to the BOOKS COMMUNITY CENTER this week and nominate titles you might like to discuss with us. NEXT WEEK, we'll VOTE and discuss the winner in November. Get in on the fun!

Postings,

If we don't get some postings in this Discussion I am going to sit in the corner and SULK.

Tiger Tom

Can't have that, Tom!

The long story is that my husband had emergency surgery for a ruptured appendix two weeks ago. Thank the Lord he made it through but spent a week in intensive care and is now in rehab, trying to regain his strength. The point being that with all those hours spent by his bed with minimal conversation going on, I needed something really terrific to read, above and beyond the newspapers.

Fate was kind in that respect because glancing at the books section in a drug store I spied a familiar title - "The Poisonwood Bible" which I had heard discussed, or at least referred to, here on SN several times - with considerable enthusiasm. So I bought it and mashed it into my purse (it's a wee tad large to just slip in there the way I like). And, I'm loving it! It's easy to do "stop-and-go" type reading which comes with the many interruptions in a hospital. But, it has me chuckling quietly on just about every page. I love this book and, if it had not been for SN, I may not have picked it up.

Dianne,

Happy to hear that your Husband is recovering.

I read in the Diabetes discussion that he is Diabetic.

I am going to lead the discussion in Curious Minds starting Sept 14. My subject will be Diabetes. I hope you and the rest in the Diabetes discussion group can join us there.

Tiger Tom

Told you,

S U L K

Gonna eat a big Green Frog and then you will be sorry.

Tiger Tom

Just logging in. I just joined and was reading along when suddenly you wrote that you wanted more postings. Being brand new to this page, I'm not sure what I should write. I've been reading since time began it seems. The only times my mother asked me to stop reading for a while were when I was trying to set the table for supper with my book in one hand and the dishes in the other. Both mother and dad were avid readers. I'll be logging in Curious minds after Sept 14 to check on the diabetes page--sounds interesting.

Rizpah

Rispah - welcome to our group which consists of avid readers like you. You might try scrolling backwards a way to see the kinds of things we talk about. As in many of the discussions, we ebb and flow, depending on how much people feel like posting, or whether or not they have anything to discuss.

Tom does feel slighted when things slow down so please tell us a little about yourself, what you like to read, etc.

Here is one for you Tom - I am reading a lot of non fiction lately because there is so much readable stuff about at this time! I have always enjoyed autobiographies of all sorts but there are a lot of extremely well written and interesting biographies about at the moment so I am enjoying them as I come across them.

Carolyn

Rizpah,

Mr or Ms, whatever, welcome to our discussion such as it is. Dianne says it Ebbs and Flows, mostly Ebbs. I hope you do join the Curious Minds discussion the more people participating the better for the discussion and the more information developed.

Dianne how are things going?

Kiwi Lady. Great it is always nice to hear that someone has more books than that person can read. I for one feel that one can never haver too many books; just not enough time.

I wish I could inject something in here to stimulate more discussion but most of us KNOW why we read what we read but it sometimes is hard to explain our choices of reading material or when we read and where we choose to read.

Tiger Tom

I cannot imagine a world without books. Unfortunately for a number of years while juggling full time work with mothering four kids I had to give up reading anything of consequence as I just did not have time! I am more than making up for it now since I was widowed. My husband was a sailor not a reader although if he did find a book he enjoyed he could not put it down. Most of our weekends when the kids left home were spent maintaining our large boats or sailing them. Boating is hard work! Now I read every spare minute I get. I rarely watch TV.

Carolyn

Now, Tom, you mustn't be hard on yourself. This is just the nature of things. I know that I often feel the same way in my Alternative/Complementary Medicine discussion. Sometimes there is such a lull and I think it must be my fault. Other times the other posters start chattering back and forth and I really can't keep up with them.

So, best to just kick back and enjoy.

Carolyn, I share your interest in autobiographies and other non-fiction. I learn so much and am inspired by the travails that others go through. There's one I read so many years ago called The Americanization of Edward Bok. It moved me tremendously but I'd really need to sit down and review it before I could make any intelligent comments.

Thanks, Tom, Del is doing better and looking forward to coming home on Monday. We had thought it was going to be tomorrow but I was wrong and I regret having built up his hopes wrongly. On the other hand, I have a lot of picking up to do around the house before he comes home so I feel I now have the time I need.

And, oh my, what would I have done without books to see me through this ordeal!

Dianne,

My best to your Husband. Hope he comes home soon and recovers fully.

Kiwi, you sound as if you have had a pretty decent life. Boating? Up here in the State of Washington we have so much water that Boating is really popular however expensive it may be.

Tiger Tom

Tom if you are clever with your hands - here in NZ you can build or restore your own boats. Most of the people who have boats here are not rich they are do it yourselfers! We chose a modest home and my husband restored classic boats for us as his hobby. My son Matthew is well off and has a 52 footer. Its like a ship. Its enormous! His father would pass out at the size of it. Matthew wishes his dad was alive so he could employ him for all his maintenance. He pays out a fortune for mechanics etc. He can do his own painting etc as thats his trade but the other stuff he pays people to do. Rod did everything himself including his mechanics. Auckland is an isthmus and surrounded by water. It is known as "The city of sails" so you can imagine that reflects the huge boating community. Its our lifestyle here.

Carolyn

Kiwi Lady,

I am all thumbs in additon to having absolutely no Depth Perception, keep making errors because of it.

Tiger Tom

Tom I am a bit like that too. I used to do things like sanding varnish work, applying varnish, Running the engine, and of course I was a dab hand at anti fouling!

I have a book you might like to try and find about boating. Its a non fiction called Ice Bird. Author was David Lewis who was the skipper of Ice Bird. Its an old book now but so exciting. Hammond Innes said "not just another single handed first but the greatest small boat voyage into ice since Shackletons". I lent this book to a friend who was cruising the Pacific. He lent it to someone off another boat who sailed off and did not give it back. He then hunted all round the second hand book stores in the Pacific islands til he found another copy and brought it back to me! I still write to this friend who lives on his boat in Queensland Australia. He was friend to my late husband and I. He is the only one who has really bothered to keep in touch since Rod died now I am only one and not part of a couple.

Sorry haven't been visiting lately but my volunteer job keeps intruding on my reading time! Just finished Dan Brown's "Angels & Demons"...it was an interesting and somewhat difficult read ( a twice-over)so I have some reservations about the "Da Vinci Code". I'm hoping that the book about Franklin is available at the airport bookstore as it's now in paperback or with luck I may be able get to a bookstore to purchase it before Ileave for England Thursday. Re-visited Clancy's Red Rabbit in paperback...take care all.. colkot

Hey Tiger Tom.. you've got another place to put me. I'm a diabetic...a well controlled one... Colkot

Colkot.

Please join us in the discussion, it goes on for two weeks. You might have a good tip or two on how you control your Diabetes.

Tiger Tom

I've been so busy reading that I haven't joined in the discussion. I usually get 8 books from the library every 3 weeks. I always get at least one non-fiction book out. I tend to like mysteries and historical novels for my fiction books. I 'treat' myself to a hour or two reading in the afternoon, after I've done whatever else I need to do for the day. Depending on what current events and political programs are on, I also read in the evening until I fall asleep at night.

Bobbie

Bobbicie,

I try to read during the day too and in the evening before bedtime. I have a stack of reading material by my bed, Magazines and books. Also I usually drag something with me when I use the facilities. Cannot sit in a bathtub anymore or else I would soak and read there.

I have been toying with an idea but since all of us have so many books at home to be read that I doubt if it would fly:

I was thinkin of a Book Swap, but not the kind where a book is sent to someone. No, I was thinking that since we all have Libraries nearby. We could "Swap" a book by picking one out in the Library near one and then assigning it to one of the people in this discussion to be read and reported on. Book would have to be something that was general readership: Bio's, Fiction, SciFi, Romance,etc. Possibly one of the Classics if the person assigned agrees. Could be done one at a time or two people at a time. Would be interesting to see what would be picked out. Still, as I say, we all have so many books of our own to be read that having one "Swaped" might be too much.

Tiger Tom

TOM, Sounds like we have similar reading patterns. Because I can still take a bath, I also read in the bath, in fact, have a gadget, a book stand which fits across the tub, so I can prop the book up and read it while in the bath. Sign of an addicted book reader, eh? <g> I also read when in the loo, and while brushing my teeth. Because I live alone, I read when eating, unless I'm watching news or a political commentary program.

I got the flu several days ago, so have had an excuse to read and read, in bed, on the couch and in the hammock outside. Make the best of a bad thing, eh?

The book swap idea isn't bad, except that others may have the same problem that I do. When I reserve a popular book, it sometimes takes quite a while before it becomes available. Also, some people may not be interested in certain types of books, so perhaps before we consider something like that, we would need to identify what types of books we like to read, rather than have to suffer through the type of book we don't like.

Bobbie

Bobbicie,

I agree. That is why I was suggesting just subjects that most have or do read. Problem is that even it sounds chuavenistic, Males and Females generally prefer differnt types of books. Yes, often they both like the same type but more often it is different. Also with Authors. Women seem to prefer female Authors and males male Authors.

Whatever, the idea is something to consider.

I wonder if anyone else in this discussion has comments on it.

Tiger Tom

Tiger Tom, I like the idea of a Virtual Book Swap but must protest <Smile> the idea that a person might object to reading a Classic yet not SciFi or Romance. Hahaha. I think the interesting point is that we'd read something we might not ordinarily read whether it's a male or female writer, subject matter, genre.... I'd like to join in. Here's how I understood the idea, with a little tweaking of my own:

Swap a book by picking one out in our local library and assigning the title to one of the people in this discussion. They'd read the book and then report their reaction to it: loved/hated it and why; informative? interesting? boring? etc. Books can be far-ranging such as Auto/Biography, Popular Fiction, Mystery, SciFi, Romance, Classics, Poetry, History .... whatever you choose to assign.

I really like this idea. Yes, we could Swap Books two at a time, perhaps reciprocal between two people, especially since we each read at different speeds. Those of us who join in this project wouldn't refuse a particular assignment due to lack of interest but would be willing to give a book a try and finish at least 100 pages or more before giving up (if they must give up).

The concern I have is one of availability at the assignee's library or online. Perhaps the assigning person would give a title and one or two optional titles in case the #1 pick wasn't readily available? Or perhaps someone has a personal copy to loan out (no 'keepers')?

Marvelle

Marvelle,

Good suggestions.

Anyone else wants to weight in?

Tiger Tom

Sulking,

STILL sulking. Am on my third Frog. Fortunately, they are Chocolate ones (as in the Harry Potter films)

Tiger Tom

OK, Tom - anything to keep you from sulking!

As some of you know I am an enthusiastic follower of holistic and natural healing methods. In keeping with that passion, I have just received from amazon.com two books - Why Stomach Acid is Good for You (Natural Relief from Heartburn, Indigestion, Reflux & GERD) by Johathan Wright, M.D. and Lane Lenard, Ph.D; and No More Heartburn (The Safe, Effective Way to Prevent and Heal Chronic Gastrointestinal Disorders) by Sherry Rogers, M.D.

Having only just skimmed through these books so far, I can see that all the medications that my husband has taken through the years...Zantac, Prilosec, Nexxium, Protonix, Tums, etc. etc. have been exactly the WRONG things. And obviously they didn't help all that much.

On top of that my two magazine subscriptions just arrived - Alternative Medicine and Natural Health - whoopeeeee! And me with a husband just home from a three-week stint in the hospital with a ruptured appendix!

Dianne,

I must be lucky. Never had Heartburn.

I sit and watch the Ads on T.V. and wonder what they are talking about. Acid Reflux. I have had that, when I drank, I would wake at night and the reflux would be crawling up into my throat. But it would go away in a bit. Burned like the devil for a while and it was very heard to take a good breath. But I sure did not need any medication.

Frankly I wonder about those things advertised on T.V. I sometimes think they are Snake Oil.

Perhaps if you take your Husband OFF those things he might get better.

Tiger Tom

OK will do, but I;m on vacation for the next few days colkot

Tiger Tom--

I've not been around lately; not feeling up to par, and the hurricane knocked the rest of the starch out of me.

I like your idea. Because it is a way to 'force' me to read something I might not ordinarily choose. Sounds like a great way to broaden horizons. Perhaps the problem of availability at the library could be minimized by only selecting books that have been out for at least a year. That way the rush to reserve new/current books could be avoided.

Book Swap,

Good Idea, Jean

Tiger Tom

I have just returned from a luncheon and general meeting of the alumnae from my old high school.(in London) Among the various activities was a short lecture from a published author, also an alumna, and the opportunity to purchase a signed copy of the latest book she had written....It looked and sounded interesting (historical fiction) but will not be published in USA until 2004. In the meantime I will read it and see if it might be of interest to our bookies...It is called "The Birth of Venus"..(love & death in Florence) and the author is Sarah Dunant.. Ta ta for now.. colkot

Books,

Visiting. Daughter and Grandkids.

There is a permanent Friends of the Library sale here. I am busy buying books.

Tiger Tom

Goodness, where is everybody? No postings for a month--and this is one of my favorite pages! You all must be reading like crazy--I know I have been. But I like to check and see what everyone else is reading every once in a while.

Lou Ann

Lou Ann,

I am busy buying and reading. Or rather buying books.

I am not sure about others. Would love to hear from anyone out there.

Like to know if anyone is interested in my suggestion. If soi any ideas on how we can lauch it.

Happy Halloween.

Tiger Tom

We were away the whole month of September, came home for a week, and then left for a week in Canada. WE are now home until the first of the year. We have a 5th wheel and love to just jump in and head out.. Am reading a wide variety of things just now. Detective story( always), Diet book on Carbohydrates( lots of speculation, but no facts that I can see), have a stack of magazines and catalogues to go through as well.. I am waiting for the Wally Lamb thing on the women in prison to come. The new discussion sounds exciting.

I am new here but I read everything someone sends my way and I have a source in my retired school teacher sister. She buys books and I have the pleasure of reading almost continuely,a nd don`t get much work done sometimes in my home to my husbands horror. Oh I manage to cook once in awhile and do the laundry. What about you my friends? Are you avid reads also, thankfully my hubby is a reader too.

I am a genealogist and collector of dictionaries. My wish list is an Oxford dictionary.

ROSEDA: Your source for books sounds just great. You said you read anything. Do you read mostly fiction or mostly nonfiction? I have been reading romances almostly exclusively for the last few years. I have read a lot more since I retired 6 years ago.

Roseda - always glad to have another reader here. I also prefer to read over doing housework things and also to my husband's dismay but, alas he is NOT a reader! He does have other interests, though, so we play them against (or with!) each other.

Stephanie, I'm looking forward to the Wally Lamb discussion, too. I'm trying to remember if I've read any of his other books - I have the feeling I have but can't remember which one. Your mention of RVing and carrying suitcases of books reminds me of something a friend told me this evening. She has a friend who likes to take cruises but on freighters. And boy, oh boy, will this group like to hear about their latest. Their room was somehow at the top of the ship, up 87 steps worth. They also boarded with suitcases of books and would spend a good bit of their days reading in their wonderful tower-like room, overlooking the sea, descend the 87 steps for meals and then ascend them to return to their reading and await the next meal. My husband would absolutely HATE a vacation like that but to me it sounds ideal. Sigh.

As to why we read what we read, I passed a table of books outside a Dollar Store last week with no sign on it. Well, I didn't think they'd be selling books for only a dollar so went inside to check and Yes, they were! Well, only one appealed to me at all but for a dollar, heck! The book was the one written by the parents of the murdered little girl, Jon-Benet. In my mind I figured it would be a tabloid type thing and really wasn't sure I even wanted to read it but, as I said - a dollar? The book is written by the parents, Patsy and John and it is NOT lurid and tacky. But it is a real eye-opener as to what we do to victims in this country. I'm thinking of OJ Simpson (not him but the parents of Nicole and the other parents involved of the other fellow), Koby Bryant and the, at this point, defendent, Monique Lewinsky and her mother - all the terrible tabloid accusations, pictures - mainly unsubstantiated. What the media has done to Jon-Benet's parents is inexcusable. I'm glad I happened upon this book.

Roseda...it was on my wish list too HOWEVER, when I was in England, recently, visiting my girl friend of 50+ years in Windsor (& also for my annual pilgrimage to my old High School)there was a book sale in my favorite bookstore there. In paperback mind you. Buy two, get the third free...I bought "Samuel Pepys, Claire Tomalin"..."The Last Escape, John Nichol& Tony Rennell"...about allied POWs in Germany..including Americans... and my freebie was the Oxford English Dictionary..brand new in paperback. I was and still am on Cloud Nine.

Thanksgiving was just super!!

First off, I didn't have to cook the whole meal, it was in someone's else home, and cleaning up was done by others,too. Wow!! And, the assembled group was just great fun with which to visit. We had a grand afternoon and evening. And our grandkids were there, too.

Hope all who were in the "When Religion Becomes Evil" discussion will return on Dec 1st to finish the book with Chap. 6 & 7. See ya all there!!

Well, I finally read this book...My older daughter and Itook the opportunity to read while the rest were watching DVD's thatdid not interest us. We were part of a huge family gathering in Montclair NJ. I have 4 children, 5 grandchildren,a niece and a brother in the general area and we all convened from Chicago, NY and LA to this spot. We had a Polish Wigilia(Christmas eve vigil no meat) an English type Christmas day feast, a Hispanic feast on Boxing Day (Dec 26)..There were assorted relatives and long standing friends from all over and a large noisy changing crowd from 5- 85 had a good time! And the book?...as I said before I'd read Angels and Demons, so the central character Robert Langdon was known. I'm familiar with most of the places in Paris particularly the churches ..though the new construction in Paris is well after the last time I was there. I've seen the Mona Lisa before all the security was in place, The Temple church was not far from where I worked in London and the gardens were a good place to take a sack lunch. I've not been fortunate enough to visit Scotland, though my late husband was stationed there after WW2. The actual premise of the book was interesting as historical fiction..( believe what you will).. Police in England do not carry guns...No-one in Europe( to my knowledge)uses the term "Spring Break".. it would be something like "Easter term or holidays"..Other than that it was a good read. Seasons greetings to all Colkot

I've not ma

New Year.

Not much movement in here lately.

I have been having health problems and some Computer problems. Health is getting better and I have a new ISP which solved the Computer problems.

I continue to accrue books. Can't seem to stop. Addicted I am. While In California I bought 20 books at the "Friends of the Library" book room. It is a permanent sale open three days a week. Anyway, got the whole of Churchills WWII series and a number of Classic Club publications of Classic books.

I have a gift certificate from Barnes & Noble burning a hole in my pocket. Have a 40 drive to nearest B&N but will be going there in a week or so. Would use it on the Internet but with S&H I would possibly lose the price of a book.

What has been happening with you all?

Read any good books lately?

Tiger Tom

Our daughter e-mailed this to us today and I wanted to share.

MAJOR TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGH

Introducing the new Bio-Optic Organized Knowledge device, trade named BOOK.

BOOK is a revolutionary breakthrough in technology: no wires, no electric circuits, no batteries, nothing to be connected or switched on. It's so easy to use, even a child can operate it.

Compact and portable, it can be used anywhere -- even sitting in an armchair by the fire -- yet it is powerful enough to hold as much information as a CD-ROM disc. Here's how it works:

BOOK is constructed of sequentially numbered sheets of paper (recyclable), each capable of holding thousands of bits of information.

The pages are locked together with a custom-fit device called a binder which keeps the sheets in their correct sequence. Opaque Paper Technology (OPT) allows manufacturers to use both sides of the sheet, doubling the information density and cutting costs. Experts are divided on the prospects for further increases in information density; for now, BOOKS with more information simply use more pages.

Each sheet is scanned optically, registering information directly into your brain. A flick of the finger takes you to the next sheet.

BOOK may be taken up at any time and used merely by opening it.

BOOK never crashes or requires rebooting, though like other display devices it can become unusable if dropped overboard. The "browse" feature allows you to move instantly to any sheet, and move forward or backward as you wish. Many come with an "index" feature, which pinpoints the exact location of any selected information for instant retrieval.

An optional "BOOKmark" accessory allows you to open BOOK to the exact place you left it in a previous session -- even if the BOOK has been closed. BOOKmarks fit universal design standards; thus, a single BOOKmark can be used in BOOKs by various manufacturers. Conversely, numerous BOOK markers can be used in a single BOOK if the user wants to store numerous views at once. The number is limited only by the number of pages in the BOOK.

You can also make personal notes next to BOOK text entries with an optional programming tool, the Portable Erasable Nib Cryptic Intercommunication Language Stylus (PENCILS).

Portable, durable, and affordable, BOOK is being hailed as a precursor of a new entertainment wave. Also, BOOK's appeal seems so certain that thousands of content creators have committed to the platform and investors are reportedly flocking. Look for a flood of new titles soon.

That is absolutely wonderful Mary Z. Can anyone tell me if there is a way to print it? I know a number of people who would be as tickled as I was to see it.

Am reading a book (for a local book group) that has surprisesd and fascinated me, The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. Am also listening to Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake. Two imaginative, futuristic and just a little too possible for comfort......reads.

Paulita, you can copy and paste it into Word Pad or something like that - or I can e-mail it to you - let me know. I just thought it was too good not to share with the bunch of book nuts who hang out on SeniorNet.

Mary Z - really cute! And I confess that I didn't catch on till I was part-way through.

Tiger Tom - sorry to hear that you've not been well but glad you're coming out of it now. Re: the gift certificate have you checked to see if B&N has free shipping for orders over a certain amount? Amazon does and I always wait until I have enough for the minimum ($25) before ordering anything.

I have "Will", the autobiography by G. Gordon Liddy waiting for me at the library and then I can join in the discussion here on SN. Actually I read it once before but it was so long ago.

Paulita, another way to print the article that Mary Z posted is this: highlight the part you want to print by holding down the left mouse button and moving it over the entire part you need. Go to file at the top of the page and click Print. When your printer window comes up check Selection, not all or pages. It will print out on paper without copying and pasting into wordpad. Sue

thanks, Sue - I appreciate that information, too. I didn't know that.

You're welcome, Mary Z. Have you tried it? It works for me, but I have an old Win 95 OS and some of the newer systems may do it differently. Sue

Well,

Absolute quiet in here and one post seems to have started something.

Hope this keeps up.

I have so many books started and so many to start that I am paralyzed. I don't know if I should pick up a book I have started or go to one I haven't started. So, I do neither.

While ill I got to thinking of what is going to happen to my books. While my Daughter loves books she hasn't any room for what books she has now much less for mine. She also can't afford to store my books. So, what to do? I really want my books to go to my Daughter but am at a loss at how I can give them to her and she can keep them. The alternative is to start giving them away to people I know will take care of them. That is a challenge too. All of my friends who would take care of the books are as old as I am or older. They too don't know what to do with the books they have now. I hate the thought of my books winding up in a storeroom in a thrift shop somewhere to moulder and finally to get tossed in the trash heap.

Funny the things one thinks of when ill.

Tiger Tom

Well, Tom, I think about things like that when I'm feeling great!

I feel as if my books are like my children - I would like for each one to go to a home where it will be loved and appreciated....or at least, read.

Our library, unlike the one where we used to live, graciously accepts book donations but, darn it, I want each one to be happily grabbed up by someone. No, I don't want mine to wind up growing moldy in some dark corner, either.

I picked up my copy of "Will" at the library today. And, just for fun, a copy of Paul Newman's collection of recipes. And Stud Terkel's book, "Hope Dies Last". The latter for another SN discussion.

In fact, for me, anyway, my answer to the question of "Why We Read What We Read? has to be in large part "because I want to join the discussion group covering that book". I read other books, too, but I sure have picked up a lot that I never would have otherwise.

Dianne,

I guess we will have to find some way to take our books with us.

I don't use the Library too much as I hate having to take a book back. I get attached to a book I have read or even have had in my hands.

I wonder if there is a name for people who are so addicted to books that they get sweaty palms whenever they are in a book store or when visiting will ignore the hose and spend the visit pouring over his/her collection of books.

Tiger Tom

Alf,

It is nice to know there are others like me.

I wonder is there a "Books Anon" Not that I want to lose my addiction, just curious.

I keep reading in the Newspaper and hearing on T.V that no one is reading any more but whenever I am in a book store there is always a number of Customers and during the Christmas Season the Bookstores seem to be doing great business. Also, Amazon and B&N do not seem to be hurting. I guess the media must be referring to the Young.

It pains me to think that the youth in this country are not getting in to the habit of reading. As far as I am concerned it is one of the real joys of life.

Tiger Tom

Tom, when we decide to part with books, we have several strategies. First, anytime we are with our children, we have book trades. We usually get rid of some then - the problem is that any that are left unclaimed become ours by default. We frequently "lose" on that deal. (In our family, any time you leave with more than you came with, you lose.)

Another mechanism is to take a sack to the used book store. Of course, there we also bring some back home. We also donate to the library's used book sale, to the Senior Center, and to various retirement complexes.

None of this has any effect on the books that we absolutely, positively, cannot part with under any circumstances. Sighhhhhhhh

We periodically clean off the shelves. Some go to the library book sale, if timing is right. Some go to friends. Some go to the elderly housing here. People snap them up.

And some stay on the shelves at home, just can't part with them.

As for young people reading, the Harry Potter books got a lot of kids reading, as well as their parents. Some parents who rarely read books had to read about Harry to see what had their kids to enthralled. And once people start reading, they keep on doing it.

I think there is something intimate about a book that can't be duplicated on a computer.

N

Nlhome,

I have always treated books as close friends which I can not part with. Books never betray one or break a friendship for no reason.

Harry Potter Books. I too have read all of them as my Grandson in bonkers about Harry Potter and I have to keep current. Also had to watch both Harry Potter movies several times while visiting my Grandchildren. Grandson loves to watch them and nothing would do but that Grandpa had to watch with him.

I also feel that a book gives a lot of comfort when one is down, feels bad, is ill in bed or just comfort as a companion.

Tiger Tom

I would feel deserted and alone if I didn't have a stack of books, unread, by my bed. And on the shelves...and on the tables...and one in my purse...a few on the counter...etc. etc. I think I'm in good company here!

I, too, tend to get a bit nervous if I don't have at least one or two back-up books waiting "in the wings" to be read. Many years ago, I went to the airport to pick up DH and didn't take a book. Of course, his plane was late, and it turned out I had only enough money with me to get out of the parking lot. So NO book to read - what a panic situation. That's been about 40 years ago, and I can guarantee you it's never happened again.

Mary, Diane,

I usually don't carry a book with me as I only have hard backs and don't want to risk losing one. I have left too many Softbacks on Airplanes so only read Magazines while travling by Air.

The anticipation of a book arriving or of reading a new book is a quiet thrill for me. I suppose that most would not feel that way or even consider anything to do with a book as a thrill. I suppose my sense of adventure is a bit more subdued. Each to his/her own.

Tiger Tom

Oh me, that is why I like paperbacks. I have one or two in the car, in my pocketbook, hidden just about everywhere. To be stuck without something to read is a true fright. Having owned a book store.. Statistics in the book trade say.. abvout 10% of adults read books, any type of books.. Scary, but I would guess true.

I, too, have books all over the place. One in every room, one in the car (at all times) and one on my treadmill.

I disagree Tom. I can not see where reading is being ignored by the young at all. My granddaughters go to the library twice a week, know Borders inside and out and read each night before they go to bed. I credit their mother with that. The bookstores always have a group of kids in there looking thru the books. I love to see that!!

I have an anxiety attack if I don't have a book with me in my purse. What if I get stuck in an elevator, what if there's a long line at Costco, what if there's a wait for the car wash. I never mind being stranded in the airport because......of course I have a book. The joke in my family is the number of books I cart with me on trips cuz you never know...LOL One of the things I enjoy most about preparing for a trip is deciding which books to take with me....heavy, light in both weight and content. Even have a book on tape for walking, for driving, for listening to on the plane...Need something for whatever mood might strike, right? I have a feeling most of you posters can relate!

Alf,

Happy to hear that your Grand Daughters read a great deal. I see a number of customers in the loca bookstore but not many of them are youg. Still, I guess there is hope if even some are in Library's and bookstores.

I have never developed the habit of carrying a book with me. I do have books in my room but am not allowed books elsewhere in the house. My wife hates to have anything laying around. I guess the worry about losing a book is the reason I don't carry one around with me. Goes back to when I was young: I only owned a very few books and didn't want to lose any of them.

When young and in school I always had a book in my hand at home. Oddly, I never recived a book as a gift although my Mother was always saying: "I don't know what to give you for Christmas" Didn't live near a city Library but the small School library was sufficient.

Tiger Tom

We pulled our travel trailer to Alaska in 1998. A lot of the weight we had was paper - maps and books. And we even stopped along the way when we saw a library's used book sale to replenish our supply.

All but one of our grandchildren (ages 15-21) are great readers - and the one is a hands-on type of guy - but likes to read repair manuals and stuff like that.

MaryZ,

A read is a read.

When there is not else around I will read the small print on Ads, cereal boxes, you name it. So, if your Grandson reads Manuals at least he is reading.

Interesting comment in the Curious Minds disucssion on Hearing: someone said that she would rather be Blind than Deaf. Me, I could never be without sight. I know that there are books on tape but I couldn't live without seeing the Blue Sky, Sunshine and other beautiful things in this world. I would miss Music were I deaf but compared to Blindness there is no contest in my mind. What do you all think? Blind or Deaf?

Tiger Tom

I would be lost without my sight. I feel that I would be able to compensate without my sense of hearing or taste, but I would never be valiant without my sight.

I agree, Tom - at long as our grandson is reading, I don't much care what it is. And, like you, I'll read the cereal boxes or whatever. I would surely hate to be without any of my senses, but I guess I'd rather have my sight than my hearing - if I absolutely had to make the choice.

Mary, Alf,

Unfortunately, life makes our choices for us:

I now wear two (2) hearing aides which help but won't cure my hearing loss.

I have a number of problems with my eyes but can still see well.

I know that in time I will be deaf and probably Blind. Those are NOT choices I would make. However, age doesn't give one much wiggle room.

I hope that it will be some time before those two things strike, like in about 20 years. Meanwhile, I read and listen to music and gaze outside at the world.

Tiger Tom

Tom, as you read and listen and gaze, I think you are getting as much out of your God-given senses as anyone possibly could. Long may you do so!

Diane,

When young I took all of those things for granted. Looking back I realize that none of them were as good as they should have been. I could see well enough but still not as well as I should have been able to, hearing the same. I didn't know it so I wasn't bothered by it. Only on reflection and talking to others did I realize the true situation. I have often wondered what my world would have been like had my sight and hearing had been perfect.

Still, I was able to read very well and fast and retain what I read.

Tiger Tom

Books have always been a friend to me. Books lifted me out of a miserable home life as a child and transported me to other places and I could forget what was going on in my home for hours at a time. I taught myself to read before I started school.

I don't have a huge library any more. I have kept a few books which mean a lot to me and the rest have been given away. My two eldest children love reading like me and my son even has a library on board his boat so they can read when they go away. My DIL goes to library sales and used book shops to fill the boat library. She loves reading too. They lead such busy lives at home they don't have a lot of time to read but when they get on the boat they gorge themselves on books. My daughter and I always like the same books so we swap our books. I have to keep her books at my place as she is an asthmatic and can't have anything that collects dust in the house. She only has the books she is currently reading at home and then they come down to me.

Carolyn

Kiwi,

Books were my sole solace when I was very young up until I left home. Same problem, lousy home life. So, as you, I was transported to adventure, travel and ideas by Books.

My Daughter also loves to read and reads to her children at least once a day and sometimes more often than that.

Tiger Tom

I am like a compulsive person when it comes to reading. I have so many books here at home that I haven't read. When I am traveling a take 3 books in my carry on. One which I am now reading. two for in case I finishe # 1 and three in cast I have already read or don't like #2. Although I have met very few books I didn't like. Now I also have books on my palm pilot which is very handy on a plane.

Romantic,

I am a Romantic. My favorite composers are all Romantics: Beethoven, Mozart, Schubart, Shuman, Brahms, etc. I also like Poetry, Older Romantic Poetry. I admit to really liking what some do not consider great Poetry: "the Rubaiyat" by Khayyam.

One of my favorite quatrains is:

I sometimes think that never blows so Red The Rose as where some Buried Caesar Bled; That every Hyacinth the Garden wears Dropt in its lap from some once lovely head.

Do any of you like the Rubaiyat and if so do you have a favorite quatrain?

Tiger Tom

No comments?

Did I put everyone off with my last post?

Tiger Tom

Thanks for asking me to come here. No, dear Tom, you didn't put anyone off with your question. At the same time I can't answer it because I've never read that particular piece, since poetry only leaves my practical mind with a huge question mark. That's because I'm the opposite of a romantic, with not a romantic bone in my body. LOL

Anyhow, why do I read? Well, I personally seldom read fiction unless it's classic fiction. I read mostly for information which is enjoyment to me. And, like you, if there is nothing else to read I'll read the writing on cereal boxes. I've been that way ever since I was a little girl, a tendency inherited from my father who used to bump into lamp posts while walking because he had his nose in a book. Ah, those genetics----the addictions they cause!

I love any sort of "how to" book, anything with a lot of facts in it, and the more controversial it is the more I like it. I even read the phone book. Facts with no embroidery. LOL. But I like autobiographies, biographies, history, factual books on almost any subject from architecture to zoology. I have a huge library on art and the "how to's" of painting, and have asked my son that if someone in the family doesn't want them to treasure them, I want them all to go to the local library at my passing. Libraries have such a hard time of it as far as acquiring new books, and these are all in good shape with wonderful color plates.

You know, looking back over my life the one thing I regret is that I had to be self-educated and never really got what I consider a "classical" education, such as having had to read and understand the Rubaiyat. Even now at this age I still wonder about how to go about getting that sort of classical education, on my own if I have to; but alas, I don't even know where to begin. Any suggestions?

I love all books.. Not hard science with rare exceptions, but pretty much anything else. It would be easier if I were more inclined to discrimate.. I always have stacks of books to read.

"...never blows so red the rose as where some buried Caesar bled...."

It's right up there with "April is the cruelest month, breeding hyacinths out of the dead land."

It's actually "breeding lilacs out of the dead land," but I changed it because I like saying hyacinths better than lilacs, and poetry is as much about the sound as about the meaning. Does anyone think that if the sound was taken out of poetry the meaning would be the same?

Mountain Rose, I don't know where you live, but in Tennessee, anybody over 60 can audit a class at any state college or university for free (dependent upon space available), and at 65 can take classes for credit for free. If you're anywhere near a college or community college, I'd bet there'd be some sort of similar arrangement - at least with reduced rates. And you could take whatever courses piqued your interest - without having to fit them into a specific course of study. That's where I'd start if I were you.

When we moved here, and I was no long working, I went back to school (the University of TN Chattanooga) as a full time student, majoring in art (which I'd never taken in my original 2 years of college years ago), and wound up graduating (in 3 years) with a BA in Art, and a BFA in painting. What a great time I had!

Mountain Rose - my daughter tells me that anyone can sit in on Lectures at Auckland University - she even offered to drop me off and pick me up. I think most Universities are open like that. Some even have special courses outside of term time for seniors . Literature is one of the popular courses open.

Welcome Mountain Rose,

I wonder if the rest would think we were weird if we broke into a duet of RoseMarie or Indian Love Call.

I don't have a classical education either. Damned near had to shoot my way out of High School.

However, like you am mostly self taught by reading.

I guess it is apparent that you have a practical mind. No harm in that.

You might check in to the suggestions of auditing classes (if you have the time) or seeing if you could get Senior discounts on courses at a Community College near you.

Tiger Tom

Tooki,

Yes, I believe the sound of Poetry is as important as the words. Which is why I like older, romantic, Poetry.

I don't care for modern Art, Classical Music or Poetry. But that is just me. I guess it is because I don't understand any of them.

Tiger Tom

as probably you all know, means self-taught, life long learning, and continuing education. It is surprising to find out those who had formal education, classical or just plain ol' higher, and those who didn't. You can't tell by listening. HERE is a site listing some famous known autodidactics. The site itself addresses the needs of being a lifelong autodidactic. Isn't that a great word? It just rolls off the tongue like poetry.

thoroughly later. What I mean by "classical" education is the sort of education that our universities used to teach and that is especially taught in England---mythology and all its symbolism, the classic books and literature, a good grounding in philosophy, etc. etc. I can't get that where I live in this small town of 3,000 people. We have a small community college, but classes are very limited and mainly deal with forestry and job training. But I do like the idea of sitting in on classes of interest. I don't care about credit, just want to learn; so thanks for the suggestion to all who made it. I will check that out.

I have seen a few fascinating lecture series that can be obtained on tape, but the COST is prohibitive and with nothing but social security to live on I simply can't afford it. Aaaaah well, that still leaves the library, which I love!!! And they do have a program in which I can request any book throughout the system. It's just a matter of WHICH BOOK? LOL Let's see if I can find some clues in the site Tooki posted. Thanks so much Tooki! I do LOVE that word--autoditacticism!

Tooki,

Great site. I have bookmarked it. Lovely name, autoditacticism.

I guess it is in the desire to learn and the availability of books.

There is also a small community college near where I live that offers a little more than basic skills courses.

I wonder who came up that word.

Tiger Tom

MOUNTAIN ROSE: I know that there are online courses. Maybe someone else knows of some links for you. I haven't tried any myself.

Mountainrose,

also some courses offered by Universities via T.V.

If you have Dish the University of Northern Arizona offers a number of courses. Not free and I am not sure what the University charges but sure is convienient. Some other Universities also have courses via T.V. as does some Community Colleges.

Tiger Tom

As far a I can tell there is agreement among academics that a classical education consists, among other things, of reading ALL of the important books in Western Civilization, sometimes the World! The University of Chicago compiled such a list in the 1930s, and a person was graduated when they finished the books and took some kind of test. They had managed to narrow the number of books to 100. It was a radical course of study, but is considered the ideal toward which education should aspire. HERE is one current list with explanation. Wow! Lots of Luck, MountainRose! Have at 'er!

HERE'S more on a classical education. This list is terrifying! But, everything is online so maybe one could get through it in a lifetime.

Good luck, MountainRose. I recommend fast forwarding whenever possible.

Tooki,

The Encyclopedia Britanicca has a Great Book Series. It consists of 52 books. I unfortunately walked by a good deal when one of their salesmen offered to sell the series to me for 500 dollars which would come to 10 dollars a book. I turned him down and have kicked myself ever since.

Tiger Tom

Some Public Libraries have maintained a section with the U. of Chicago's Great Books list. Sue

Thank you Tiger Tom and SpringCreekFarm for the information. Why don't we compose a list of our own great books? Tiger Tom can determine how big a list we can have, and participants get to name whatever number Tiger Tom determines will make up a list. That's not too clear, but I suppose you get the idea, TT? At the conclusion of a specified time - two weeks, say - TT can post, that is, type the list here of OUR great books. Books need not adherere to any criteria except that in the listers' view, it is a great book. OK. I'm ready to start thinking.

I took a quick scan through those LONG lists, and was surprised at how many of them I have read. I seem to missing out mainly on the ancients, for which I would also need study guides, I think. But I read fast and type fast, so none of those lists seem intimidating to me.

As for the books I would put on the classics list, there are two I can think of right off the bat: "The Scarlet Letter" by Nathaniel Hawthorne, and "Don Quixote" by Miguel de Cervantes (yes, I actually have read that one---THREE TIMES!). I love "Don Quixote" and my old broken-down car is named Rosinante after his broken-down horse. LOL

Should we also given an explanation of why we think our choices are classics? What do you think?

I suppose, MountainRose, that before we start lists we need to hear from our fearless leader, TT. But, yes, I think we need to give reasons for our choices. And we should be limited in the number of books we can choose, all according to TT's views, I think.

Should you, MR, embark on a planned course of study of those books recommended for a classic education, I hope you keep us posted on your progress. Remember the virtues of fast forwarding: reading prefaces and introductions, scanning tables of contents, checking bibliographies and footnotes. I have found that most contemporary non-fiction authors follow a pattern. They tell you what they're going to say in the intro; say it in the body of the book; and then tell you what they said in the epilogue or final chapter. Reading a book by reading the intro and epilogue first saves a lot of time reading junky books.

Unfortunately I read fiction the same way and miss all the fun. Reading for plot is NOT the way to read fiction.

Tooki,

Okay. However as to the number of books.

There a number of great books series. Two which have been named here. Another is the Harvard series called (I believe) the five foot book shelf. I seem to remember another one but the name escapes me.

Whatever, lets hit a median of (if we can reach it) 75 books.

I also believe we might include a few modern ones that have not appeared in any of the other Great Books lists.

Yes, the "Classics" should be on the list, that goes without saying. But I believe that there are other books which some may consider as "Great" that might also be included.

Might be nice to specify when one nominates a book for the list if the person nominating the book has read it or is going to.

Any ideas?

Tiger Tom

for setting up great rules. I especially like having read, reading or INTENDING to read the nominated book. I will print the rules as soon as I can fix my printer. In the meantime, I'm thinking.

Another question. Does each person have a limit? Or do we nominate fast and furious until the number, 75, is reached?

OK, folks. We have the go ahead. Full speed ahead!

I admit I'm not at all sure I will ever be able to get through those ancient writings without help of some sort, even beyond the introduction, forword, etc. I have the same sort of trouble with Shakespeare. When reading the words I often miss the point; on the other hand, when I've seen the play I see it clearly and understand it.

Somewhere a long time ago I read that we all have different ways of learning. Some of us learn best by reading, some by hearing the words spoken, some by being involved in doing, such as writing, and some by various combinations of all three. I seem to learn best, and retain things best, by "reading" and "writing". Once I've written something down I seldom forget the general gist of it.

I guess since I'm not working for a grade I can read and write to my heart's content, and take as much time as I want, right? LOL

Tooki,

Nominate as many as you like.

Might, add that one need not read the book but can listen to an audio version if that would be better for a person who may have vision or who can understand a spoken version easier than one which is read.

Tiger Tom

Hmm. I will tell you that the original Great Books were mostly written by white males.. So.. whether or not they were great is sort of up to you.

but it doesn't matter to me, since those thinkers are the ones who created the society we now find ourselves in. I have always felt that the best way to know where you are and where you wish to go from there is to understand as much as possible about how you got there. When one has that base, then one can go in other directions; just like learning to be a writer means one has to learn the rudiments of writing, or with art one has to learn the rudiments of art. Once the basics are there, one can go off on tangents and become creative by breaking the rules.

Besides, even though I think there is MUCH that is wrong with our societies and our world, there is has also been much progression and much good thinking, and many, many very relevant questions---and that's what I'm trying to get at.

Women have been pretty much ignored by history. So have average people, which was actually the majority of people. History is written from a wealthy male dominant perspective, but knowing that, one can also have some insight into how we got where we are. Know what I mean?

Shakespeare and other playrights are best understood if read aloud. They were written to be spoken. I am going to ponder on what books I would recommend to a high school senior or college student looking to get a well rounded education.

I agree with MountainRose. The best way to lick the enemy is to spy on him, understand his motivations, and be better than him.

I have to type this in a hurry because himself is about to come in the computer room and look over my shoulder. LOL

I have consulted extensively with myself and have decided on my first nominee. It's "Anna Karinia," by Tolstoy. I have to go offline to write my reasons, etc., and mostly to use spell check. Later.

gaj: I sorta think our final list will be appropriate for those whom you have in mind.

Quiet in here:

I THOUGHT that some of you were going to start listing book you feel are Great.

Tiger Tom

I suppose my reasons for listing those two are probably different from what a scholar would say makes a classic, but it doesn't matter. Those two books have influenced my life, Hester Prynne in "The Scarlet Letter" because she defied the hypocritical society in which she lived and kept her dignity in a society that tried to shame her. I love that lady!!!

And I like don Quixote for some of the same reasons. Instead of living a comfortable life, he had ideals, and he went after them, even if he sometimes made mistakes. He wasn't afraid to do what he felt was right. And once I found out what some of the symbolism in that book was (I'm a dunce about that and always need help to see it) I was awed by that book and understood perfectly how that book was and is a classic as long as mankind is around.

Did you know, for instance, that the windmills he fought and which unhorsed him are a symbol for all the large institutions in human life---the government, the churches, the medical system, the banking system, the educational system? And what it is saying is that those systems will probably unhorse any one of us every single time we try and fight them---but we still have to get in there and do battle with them to keep our dignity as human beings. Everyone around you may think it's stupid and crazy, but in the end to do what you need to do is a life well lived, even when you lose.

When don Q slashes the puppets, those puppets symbolize every lie we have ever been told, by our parents, by our teachers, by our churches. It turns out that if we are good and work hard life doesn't always turn out any better than someone who is bad and lazy. And those puppets are the lies, and he slashes them to pieces. After realizing that symbolism I want to cheer him on and root for him.

When don Q thinks of every woman he meets as a princess or a fair lady, he is giving human beings the benefit of the doubt, realizing that no matter what they look like or what they do (even when bad and take advantage of him) they are beautiful children of God and carry the spark of God within them. Personally, I need to be reminded of that almost every day.

The first time I read that book I just rolled my eyes, didn't really know what to make of it and thought it was disconnected and very strange. But after I bought several study guides (with different viewpoints) and went through it again, the light went on for me. Last month "The Atlantic Monthly" did a review of a new translation of it, and once again, there was a different viewpoint about the meaning from another reader who loved the book. I think I need to get that new translation to see if it's any easier to read, because easy it is definitely NOT.

Mountainrose,

Okay, we have two (2) books to start our list.

Anyone not read these?

Anymore nominations?

Tiger Tom

selected by participants in the "Why We Read What We Do," discussion group.

My first nominee is "Anna Karenina," by Leo Tolstoy. Written in 1873-77. " Anna Karinnia" is the story of the lovely and vivacious, but MARRIED Anna's forbidden love affair with the handsome, impetuous, wealthy Vronsky, a Russian Army Officer. If this sounds like a "Romance Novel," that's because it is, among other things. But it doesn't have a happy ending. The plots of Tolstoy novels are too long, complicated, and involved to give the whole thing here, but I'll find a place and link it.

The love affair is detailed in great prose, and if you are a romance novel buff you will find enough here to sustain you. There are no sex scenes, just great writing about falling in live and it's effects on your life.

For Anna the effect was not good. Tolstoy tells how the consequences of her love ruined her life. In those days society's disapproval meant social ostracizing for the woman. It was OK for the guy, but the woman was cast out of what was called "polite society." In the end, Anna kills herself.

I read the book thoroughly when I was in my teens and thought Anna a ninny. I have since periodically reread it, especially the falling in love parts, and I have been surprised at how much more I understand about her situation as the years have passed. Even though things seem to be much freer now: unmarried folks living together, married folks living with unmarried folks, I have a sense that there is still a "polite society" where such things are not quite acceptable.

HERE IS THE LINKto the plot of Anna K. The site also has lots more stuff about books. I just discovered it and intent to check it out furthur.

I read many books in my teen years that I would have got more out of if I had waited to read them. "The Scarlett Letter" is one. I had to reread it when I had more sense to understand it. It's the same sort of book as Anna: women assuming guilt, or having it thrust on them, that isn't theirs' alone to bear. I always intended to bead myself a scarlett letter to wear as a pendant. It would be a way of saying I shared guilt.

I liked MountainRose's discussion of "Don Quixote." Took me awhile to get into that one too. I'm not too big on symbolism. I'm about ready to go it again.

I second Anna Karinina. Not considered as good a book structurally as war and peace (Tolstoy did need a good editor in all his books!!!) but oh, how good the best parts are. I've read it three times. Some of the scenes still reverborated in my mind 20 years after I read it the first time.

I think this book is a classic in the same vein as "Madame Bovary" as one of the first books to address emotions of women. I didn't like Madame Bovary either though, even though the books were fascinating and interesting in their point of view.

I guess that's why I liked "The Scarlet Letter", because the woman in there, Hesther, not only lives by her own rules, but she is not destroyed by living by them. Hesther never becomes a "victim" the way Anna and Bovary did. The life Hesther led may have been constricted by her society, but she never becomes a victim in her own head. That's the sort of feminism I prefer. Take your own power and don't let the b**stards get you down, and don't wait around for others to make it better, or even wait for the law to help. True power is simply taking as much of it as you can, and then slowly expanding it. I have sort of lived that way all of my life and I don't intend to stop now.

I've just finished reading Edith Wharton also, "House of Mirth" and "Age of Innocensce" and some of her others, all of which discuss American women and their social constrictions. I think American women had even more social constrictions than European women, because at least in Europe there was not the puritan streak that was and still is so much part of America. I loved Ellen Olenska in "Age of Innocence" too. Even though she went through hell in her marriage and her society disowned her, she was never a victim either. Love women with that sort of inner strength, who may go through hell, but come out on the other side of it intact.

I hate Madame Bovery so much I haven't yet managed to get through the book yet! Silly twit of a woman, allowing romance to run her and her life. Lord knows, I've tried, I've tried to read it! It's true Hester doesn't allow herself to become a victim, as did Anna and Madame Bovery. But Hawthorne was against the puritanicial mores of his society. Excuses can be made for Anna. To escape her victimhood would have meant leaving her social class. And I don't see how she could have done that in Russia at that time. I assume that even though Anna might have escaped victimhood by becoming a peasant, Tolstoy's favorite way of saving his characters: let them live the noble life of the peasant. Garbage! He wanted Anna to suffer because she and all members of her class were, in Tolstoy's eyes, unworthy. Remember, one of the other plots, the girl who thought Vronsky loved her, Kitty, and the man she eventually married, Demetri was it? They found happiness because they espoused the spiritual life of the earth. Bletch! Anna HAD to be a victim because the whole class sucked. And, as I rant on, that class was brought down by the revolution.

OK, how about "Forever Amber." Anyone remember that well enough to discuss it? I think that book was more important than it has been given credit for. Compare it to "Moll Flanders," and it doesn't come out too badly. This category of book is called, "Women Who Had ----.

I'm regrouping for another "Great Book Choice." Where's your choice, JaonK?

One book came to mind when I was pondering the question and that is "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. And darned if I can remember enough about it to even get a discussion going - I just mainly remember that it made a huge impact on me which lasted for several years. Wasn't that also the book that was responsible for the phrase, "Who is John Galt?" back in the 60's? I eventually read most (if not all) of Rand's books, including "Fountainhead" and "Anthem" but Atlas was always my favorite.

Diane a friend and I were just talking about Ayn Rand. She liked The Fountainhead . I remember more of Atlas Shrugged. Wasn't it the one were the heroine stands on the top of the building and the wind is blowing her dress? I don't know if I would reread her work but I sure remember it with fondness.

Where's your choice, JaonK?

I don't know if you have set parameters. Are these all to be fiction?

Books that I found great:

The Odyssey Walden (not fiction) If plays count Aescelus, Shakespeare War and Peace Siddarta (Sp?)

I can't think of more now, but I will.

At the edge of greatnesss: The Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison.

Ginny Ann, gosh, I'm red-faced to admit that I can't even remember that although, just guessing, it sounds more like Fountainhead. Wasn't that the one where the hero was an architect? If I could live forever I would be re-reading Rand's books but, as it is, there are so many that I still want to read for the first time. To say nothing of all the wonderful new ones I keep hearing about!

That book was instrumental in turning me into an "individualist," when I was 15. That was before I realized that choices, rules, and reasons that applied to men, didn't apply to women. I actually thought that Mankind included women. What a surprise I was in for when I grew up! The hero, Howard Roark, refused to compromise his architectural ideals, and raped the heroine, the daughter of the guy who hired him to build the building. In the movie, with Gary Cooper and Elizabeth Scott, she stood on the balcony with the wind blowing her long, elegant dress against her and dared, yes, dared Howard to take her! I mean a real bodice ripper, barn burner, hot book!

Wow! Imagine thinking that was far out. I didn't read Atlas Shrugged because I was by then out of my Ann Ryan stage and into my Sarte Existentialism phase. Good to know you folks also enjoyed and were moved by her.

JoanK: Tiger Tom will probably post guidelines. But so far, pick a book for our list of 75 "Great Books." Say why you like it, and if you've read it. I think that's it. TT is supposed to keep track; I'm hoping he does. Where is he?

Tooki,

I am here. More or less an interested bystander at the time. Since most of the discussion is more or less gender based and it is not my Gender.

Guidlines? What anyone condsiders "Great" others don't really need to agree with the assessment. I believe "Greatness" like "Beauty" is in the eye of the beholder and I think it would be interesting to see what posters here believe is greatt and perhaps their reason for that.

Tiger Tom

opinion---I love it!

I mostly agree with you too. But it seems to me that Anna made some bad choices knowing what sort of society she lived in and she must have had some idea of what would happen if the was caught. I guess I have not much sympathy for females who don't know how to play the game in whatever society they are in and then whine about it when they are caught. At least you'd think they would admit, "Hey, I didn't play by the rules and these are the results." But you're right that Tolstoy probably didn't have much sympathy for her because of her class, and one could argue the fairness of that until doomsday.

And Madame Bovary---well, that's pretty much how I felt about her, but I did finish the book---twice, at different ages. LOL. I often read a book again to see the impact as I get older and have more life experience, and Madame Bovary was also a character I didn't like at all. I didn't have much sympathy for her the first time, and not the second time either. I don't understand the sort of boredom and ennui she suffered from that made her do the things she did which were unfair to a loving and caring husband. I wish I'd had such a husband.

I think both books were written because male authors were trying to figure out what women want. Tolstoy also made a political statement, as you said. I don't think either one figured it out, and I still don't think male authors have figured it out. Frankly, I don't think we women have it figured out either. LOL

Regarding Ayn Rand's books, I read all those as a teen and then read them again when I was in my 30s. As a teen I was impressed. As a 30-year-old I was not. She is the ultimate capitalist, and to me, capitalism without boundaries is ruthless and turns everyone except those who have the $$$ into slaves because of rampant greed. Of course her books had only sanitized capitalism in them. I guess by the time I hit my 30s I'd seen enough to know that life never works that way. Hahahahah

What about "Return of the Native"? Another very troublesome and frustrated woman with another male author trying to figure her out. LOL

Thanks for that enjoyable post.

I agree with the posters about Anna. Actually, the portrayal of her is the major weakness of the book. She never emerges as a person: everytime she appears she is a different person. And always pining for whatever she doesn't have at the minute.

The book gains it's strength from the central male character -- the Tolstoy surrogate (who should have married Anna, but didn't meet her till too late). I'm sure there is a lot of autobiography in this book. And from the minor characters.

I wanted to name my son for the firstline in "Moby Dick," but I lost that battle. My argument was that he would be a great success in college if he could walk into a party and announce, "Call me Ishmeal." In that manner he could tell the clods from the elite in a moment. We settled on Justin Case.

This is to bring up male heros in novels whom I identify with or despise. As TT said, the discussion was getting a little too gendered.

Joseph Conrad has a number of heros whom I like. How about the guy called the secret sharer by the first person narrator, in the short novel called "The Secret Sharer." As I remember the story the narrator talks about the secret sharer, and the reader is never sure whether the secret sharer is real or not. I felt that I was the real secret sharer, not really having an existence.

Does this ring a bell with anyone?

...........and maybe I shouldn't.............'just read' that is........there has to be a purpose to it.......I'm still looking for it...but even if I don't ever find it, I'll continue the quest.........and I'll continue to read!!

I'm with you, bonfire. I read because it makes me happy - and because I can't not read.

Good Morning,

Having vision problems and until I get them resolved (if I do) could one of you ladies in this disucssion (if you are a DL) take over this discussion?

Happy St. Paddy's Day.

Tiger Tom

Sorry to hear about your vision problems, TT. That sure makes reading tough. I do hope all goes well.

Welcome BONFIRE! I also read just to read. Many of my selections might not be anything that anyone here would even want to look at.

The other day I had one of my Harlequin books with me while I waited in the Kaiser pharmacy for my order to be ready. One of the men sitting near me looked at me and said: "I call those comic books." I was very annoyed with him. It turns out that that particular book was one I didn't even enjoy for reading while waiting. Some of them have a decent story (even though very short). This particular one had no story and I would call it trash. But I didn't like it when a perfect stranger volunteered an opinion about my book.

Marjorie -- that man was very rude! He sounds like the superior type who probably doesn't like the top ten list of books either.

Is there a top ten list that is the list? There are so many! What one person considers the top-ten list is often not another's. There are types/genres of books I like and others I don't. My personal top-ten would probably be called literary books.

In any case, it's wrong of that man -- or anyone -- to sneer at another person for the type of books being read.

Marvelle

GINNY ANN and MARVELLE: Thanks for your support. I didn't respond to the man's silly comment. I does seem to me as if he was disparaging not only the book I was reading but comic books as well. Growing up I remember that my father said he always read the comics because there was a lot to be learned from them. Apparently our Rabbi, who had 5 PhDs, had said something like and and my father decided he was worth emulating.

Oh but I do think one has a right to opinions about the types/genres of books one likes or dislikes. There are certain genres that don't interest me which is true of each of us. Thank goodness we're past the youthful stage of being afraid of expressing ourselves, identifying what we prefer to read.

In SN I feel free to write an opinion - whether pro or con or inbetween - of a book I've read and that right belongs to each of us. I believe that someone who doesn't like comics is free to say they don't like comics. Like or dislike a book or genre? yes go ahead, accept that right and responsibility to express yourself, but don't put people down as that man did.

Now, nonfiction is a troubling area for me. I usually am not interested in contemporary bios or autobiographies. Sweeping historical books are often too general for me as I prefer a more focused look at a particular time, place, and/or event. I'm having a hard time figuring out what (and why) I read in noniction! I do read books related to geography especially volcanology, glassblowing, Ancient cultures & theaters, and other subjects that pull my interest. The rest of my nonfiction reading is research for my writing and that's too boring to talk about.

For nonfiction, I'm currently absorbed - an interest, not research - in Roberto Casati's The Shadow Club: The Greatest Mystery in the Universe - Shadows - and the Thinkers Who Unlocked Their Secrets, a subject of science and anthropology more or less, and then Erik Larson's The Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair that Changed America set at the 1893 Chicago's World Fair. I don't know what this says about my nonfiction tastes!

Marvelle

The book on shadows sound very interesting. I'll give it a try.

Romance novels are a classic way for men to sneer at women, while euivelant male-oriented genres are not sneered at in the same way. Incidently, I understand adult comic books are very popular in some cultures. In France, there was a best-selling comic book version of Proust's "Rememberance of things Past". So if someone says that again, you can say "Thanks for the complement".

Funny. A lot of the men who sneered at romance read Westerns.. Talk about soda pop for the mind.. plus the so called WhiteSavage line was just flat out close to pornography.

My all time favorite comics are Krazy Kat (as a retrospective) and Charlie Brown and Little LuLu from the Sunday paper. My family, when I was growing up, was poor and couldn't afford to buy comic books. Since libraries didn't carry comics, I checked out adventure stories instead. I used to read the comics of friends, however, especially Archie. I'd trace the cut-outs and make my own paper dolls with my own eccentric clothes designs before I returned the loaned issue. What fun!

I admit to an ongoing and enormous (some say excessive) fondness for Moose and Squirrel from television.

Marvelle

is like breathing to me. I just do it. I like most genres. Lately I have been reading mostly romances because of the happy endings. While going through my treatments for breast cancer I needed books that ended in a positive manner. Since my recovery I have been reading a more ecletic mix.

A nonfiction book I finished yesterday is Abraham: A Journey to the Heart of Three Faiths by Bruce Feiler. It helped me understand some of the current conflicts between Jews, Christians, and Muslems. I rate it a 4 1/2 on a scale of 1-4.

My current fiction read is a Sci/Fi book by Catherine Assaro. It is either the 3rd or 4th book by her that I have read.

Reading is like breathing to me, too. I seem to alternate between readng light things and reading serious things. I, too, was treated for breast cancer, and found I had to be very careful what I read. Amazing how many books have a plot revolving around someone dying of cancer. Well meaning friends would tell me "Oh, you must read ---" and I learned to avoid those books like the plague. Inevitably ---. Why my friends thought I needed to read this, I don't know!!!

JOAN K: I don't remember the names of the books now, but I have run across some books about women who have survived breast cancer treatment and become stronger for it. Geralyn Dawson's The Pink Magnolia Club has breast cancer survivors as part of the theme. Some of it is very positive. It is a romance. It is way up high on the shelf where I put books to be reread. I would have to pull it down to see for sure if one of the women dies. Email me if you are interested and I will check. I know what you mean about wanting positive reading material.

How many of you read both fiction and nonfiction? How many prefer just fiction? How many just nonfiction? Within fiction and nonfiction is there a type of book you prefer?

I rarely read nonfiction although right now I am reading The Devil in the White City for the discussion that starts April 1. Usually I read romances because, at this time at least, I am looking to read stories with happy endings.

I usually read fiction - mysteries specifically. But I have just started Madame Secretary, Madeleine Albright's autobiography. So far, I'm enjoying it. Plus she's a year younger than I, so we have some of the same type memories from our high school years.

MARYZ: Let us know how you feel about Madam Secretary when you have finished the book. I like books that I enjoy right away.

I most always read non-fiction but I recently read The DaVinci Code (liked it in the beginning but then it dragged on so long and got so bazarre) and The Four Seasons (a pleasant read about 4 sisters).

I mostly read literary fiction and classical mysteries, with a large dose of mythology/fairytales. My nonfiction reading is highly individual.

MARJORIE, I don't know what type of fiction you like but I recently finished The Thief Lord by Cornelia Funke. (It's longlisted for the 2004 International IMPAC Dublin Award and I was surprised to discover that its a children's book.) I was completely charmed by The Thief Lord and think many adults would also enjoy it.

Marvelle

Marvelle, I have heard about The Thief Lord. Most people really enjoy it. I have put it on hold at the library.

Oh wow,, I read mostly everything. Not fond of long intricate biographies that tell you more than you ever wanted to know about a person and dont really read Historical Romance type fiction, but general fiction, mysteries, science fiction, history of all types, biographies, travel.. You name it. I have read since I was probably 4 and it is my greatest pleasure..

MARVELLE: Mostly I read romance. I guess I expected that to be obvious from my "byline." Occasionally I will read other novels that my friend has just finished and thinks I will enjoy. Generally I do enjoy them. One that was just recently exchanged on the Book Exchange that was a departure for me was Women of Silk by Gail Tsukiyama. It is the first in a trilogy about women in China who are sent by their families to work in a silk factory. Very well written. Definitely not a romance. I learned a lot about something I knew virtually nothing about before.

MARJORIE, I figured you'd read many things, as apparently you do. A bookworm is a bookworm is a bookworm! I don't have much of a reading experience with romances but I did read Billie's Kisses which was longlisted for the 2004 IMPAC Dublin Award. I didn't know it was a historical romance until I had the book in hand. Not sure how it stands up to other romances but found it to be interesting and well written.

HATS, I think you'll enjoy The Thief Lord. It's set in modern Venice and has some wonderful characters and is like a Grimm's fairytale and .... well, I won't say more except that it was a page-turner and I read late into the night because I was caught up in the atmosphere of modern Venice and because I absolutely had to find out how it ended.

Marvelle

I looked up the romance book I mentioned to get the right title. It's called Billie's Kiss by Elizabeth Knox. MARJORIE, have you read this book or author before? She also wrote The Vintner's Luck and Black Oxen. According to the B&N info on Billie's Kiss (and I think this is taken from the book cover blurb) -

""In the spring of 1903, a ship explodes as it docks on a remote Scottish island, drowning many of the passengers and crew in the icy waters of the harbor. Young, pink-haired Billie Paxton is among the only survivors. Clumsy, illiterate, and suddenly alone, she will not say why, moments before the explosion, she leapt from ship to shore - and so she falls under the immediate suspicion of her fellow passenger, Murdo Hesketh, who is determined to discover the truth behind the ship's fate."

There's the Lord of Kiss Castle - a distant relation to Murdo Hesketh - the mysterious past of Murdo who's consumed by rage, and an incredible amount of twists and turns in the plot.

Marvelle

I haven't read Billie's Kiss or any other books by Elizabeth Knox. I don't read much historical fiction. I have read a lot of books by Jayne Ann Krentz, Barbara Delinsky, Jude Deveraux, Mary Alice Monroe, Luanne Rice, Susan Andersen, Nora Roberts, etc. I could keep listing names but don't think that is very productive.

The first Mary Alice Monroe book I read, I read because my housemate had just finished it and thought I would like it. We have since read all of her books. My housemate also reads fiction. She reads a lot of the books that I have seen as discussions here in the Books. I don't know how many discussion she has joined.

I have to have a reason to read nonfiction. Right now I am reading The Devil in the White City for the discussion in April and I read IceBound by Dr. Jerri Nielsen when I was co-DL of that discussion.

I remember a time when Jean Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear first came out and I enjoyed that book a great deal. I didn't like the sequels nearly as well as the first book in that series.

MARJORIE, Billie's Kiss is the only romance fiction I've read and that was because it was on the IMPAC Dublin longlist. (Although I remember reading years ago Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre - are they considered romances? Or historical fiction?) I thought BK was nicely done but not my cuppa. I've heard of the writers you've mentioned, and they are highly respected in their field. But ... so many books so little time -- my preferred reading is in literary fiction and classical mysteries. My nonfiction reads are highly individual choices and of limited interest to others.

I'm almost done with my spring cleaning - found loads of forgotten stuff I'd pushed to the back of cupboards - and hope to start Devil in the White City by Saturday afternoon. Albuquerque has a surge of warm weather into the 70s but the weekend is supposed to cool off. I think Saturday will be a good time to sit on the patio with a cup of tea and a good book (Devil).

Marvelle

Marvelle, I consider Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre and most of Jane Austen's novels delicious romance novels. I read lots of romance novels now, mostly the authors that Marjorie has mentioned for precisely the same reason, I like a happy ending. Mysteries are another favorite genre and almost all children's literature, not the kind found in supermarkets or Disney re-writes of the classics.

I like historical fiction if it doesn't drag on forever. Biographies only appeal to me if I particularly admire the person and if the biographer writes clearly and succinctly.

But as someone said, a bookworm is a bookworm is a bookworm. Cereal boxes, magazines, newspapers--almost everything in print except instructions for putting something together. Now that I do not like!

BTW, I lived in Albuquerque in the seventies 1974-79, near Candelaria and Juan Tabo. Do you know that neighborhood? The mesa was clear above us when we moved there and our sons loved playing up there. By the time we left, people had built homes all over the mesa! I taught at Sunset Mesa School for most of that time. Sue

Yes, yes, I know the area. It's quite lovely. There's a big hullabaloo now about building on the West Mesa and also fierce arguments about the idea of a new & bigger bridge over the Rio Grande.

Marvelle

Has anyone read anything lately that provided suprising information they didn't know before?

I am reading The Devil in the White City for the discussion that is going on now. It is about the World's Fair in 1893 in Chicago. I thought I knew something about it because I grew up in Chicago and one of the buildings remains today as a museum.

I was surprised to find that the Fair lasted only 6 months. I was surprised to find what a large area it covered. When I looked at photos, I was amazed at how large the buildings were. And I was surprised to discover than both crakerjacks and a ferris wheel were introduced at that Fair.

That sounds like an interesting book, Marjorie. I think we often take our hometowns for granted and don't know as much about them as we think--as your reading of this book indicates for you.

My little hometown, where everyone knew everyone else and every tidbit of information about everyone else, published a history a few years ago with articles submitted by living residents and former residents. I sent a few myself, mostly about my family and childhood. I was surprised to learn lots of information that I hadn't learned when I was a girl. Sue

Had the luxury of reading the interesting posts including those about a "classical" education...hey, read whatever interests you..as a child was interested in Egyptology and how the world evolved.. myths and legends were thrown in as part of my education in England, I agree Shakespeare was meant to be read aloud..the language itself flows like music...I finished Highschool in 1947...started college(in USA) with my kids in 1977..got my BA in 1981..any older person who wants to go to school draws on a rich life experience..I found that the 30 years in between of reading history,philosophy fiction,keeping up with the kids,learning a 3rd language/history culture and so on ,having a curious mind helps a lot. colkot

Welcome aboard our reading train. You said you started college in the USA in '77. Where do you come from originally? all of those years in between college and college courses are many times the "most informative" ones that we experience.

Welcome COLKOT! Did you study myths and legends when you were in school in England or was that reading you did on your own? I was educated here in the U.S. and don't remember much about myths and legends. Is there one kind of book you prefer when you pick out something to read?

I was born in England, my parents just happened to be there at the time.My father was from N Ireland but spent several years in USA some in Chicago I found his passage in 1920 to US on the Ellis Island site..it's amazing how little ID they needed in those days as he is not registered under his given first name just the one he was known by.My mother came to England as a governess to German speaking family from what became Czechoslovakia after WW1..she was of Polish/Hungarian descent. Both parents well educatedwanting the best for the children (I have a younger brother now living in NJ) There used to be an exam called 11plus which children could sit for to get to exclusive HighSchools both my brother and I passed it .I went on to an all girls school with a College Prep curriculum. I'm not sure exactly whether we had myths itd in grade school as I was evacuated for a while but we always read and the library knew us well. Colkot

As I',m at leisure here, I've been reading the following: Secret Life of Bees, Sue Monk Kidd.. believe it or not I knew someone who kept bees right in the heart of London during WW2 there was about an acre of ground hidden behind the house with all kinds of flowers & trees including a huge walnut tree. Smalloperation as the centrifuge was kept in a garden room in the house. Steve Martin's Shopgirl. interesting. The Girl in the Red Coat by Roma Ligocka..a memoir..she is cousin to Roman Polanski..I was m arried to a P:olish Naval Officer who spent 5 years in Sachsenhausen concentration camp. Excellent book. In the middle of Daniel Silva's The Confessor. Gripping. Tastes many and varied. Colkot

It has been quiet here lately. What is everyone reading right now?

How much time do you spend each day/week reading? I spend a minimum of 2 hours a day reading.

Currently I am reading The Beach House by James Patterson and Peter De Jonge. It is a fast read because the chapters are short so you keep thinking one more, and then another. lol

Funny you should ask (grin).

Last night I finished "My Cope Runneth Over" (a light-hearted look at a step-family in love), by Adell Harvey. This was an easy and fast read about the merging of two families, each of whom had lost a parent by death. Three kids from one parent, four from the other, and one from both. There is a strong Christian message here but never preachy - the humor and common sense prevail. I really loved this book and am so happy to actually KNOW the author!

This dear lady is one of the members of my husband's cardiac rehabilitation group. We were chatting one day when the subject of writing came up and she mentioned that she used to write and had had a few books published. I was immediately in awe (needlessly so - she's not that kind of person!) and said I'd love to read one. Next class, there she was with this one for me. I wonder if I get to keep it?

Not too likely you could easily find this anywhere (published in '84) but if you should happen upon it at a garage sale or used book store, I think almost anyone would enjoy this heart-warming story and the breezy but gifted writing style of the author.

I recently finished Guenevere: Queen of the Summer Country by Rosalind Miles. I read it in order to participate in the "All Things Medieval" book discussion at the local library on Tuesday night. The book group was interesting as each of 8 participants showed different things they'd been reading from a number of genres, all about Medieval topics. We had a lively discussion and I will be going back next month when we will be discussing all kinds of poetry.

On Tuesday, I was still reading Barbara Delinsky's Fingerprints which I got from the SN book exchange and Seniornetter and discussion leader, Marjorie. It was a good read, both romance and a mystery of sorts, maybe could be classified as suspence.

Also on Tuesday at the library I picked up my reserved copy of Dennis Lehane's Mystic River. I've been wanting to read that because of the comments in the Mystery discussion here. I started it yesterday afternoon and stayed up well into the after midnight hours last night to finish it. Now I'm going to go to the archives and read the recent Book Discussion of this book.

I picked up Jayne Anne Krentz's Flash, which is a reread for me and Tidewater Dynasty: A Biographical Novel of the Lees of Stratford Hall by Carey Roberts and Rebecca Seely. I'm not sure if I'll get through the biography of 424 pages with tiny print. My grandmother was a Lee from West Virginia, her parents were 4th or 5th cousins, both Lees from Western Virginia who migrated west when they married. They had a distant connection to the aristocratic Lees from Stratford Hall, but too far to really claim them. Our group of Lees held family reunions in Roanoke, Virginia, in the late 60s and my grandmother enjoyed going to them. None of the Eastern Virginia Lees were present as the connection is way too distant. Our branch was one of pioneering farming and crafts/small business families. Sue

Lots of folks are addicted to booze, drugs, gambling, etc.....but for me.......I'm a "Book Addict"!!!!! My house looks like a small library with books just spilling off the bookcases. What I find is that if I like a certain book but a certain author.....I want to OWN ALL of the books that author has out!!! Honestly, I will never live long enough to read everything here, but that doesn't bother me in the least as I frequent used book stores and garage sales picking up novels for 50cents to $ 3.00. My books are my "treasures".......mainly fiction...tho I did go thru a "self-help books" stage earlier on. I just donated 45 books to the local library and will continue to do so whenever I accumulate a bunch more that I have enjoyed.

What's really fun is that lots of my email friends are readers too so for b'days or holidays we send each other books that we have enjoyed and that really helps on a retiree's budget....just the media mail postage rates!!!

My biggest problem is getting some "quiet time" for myself to delve into my books.....the best solution ever....was to get my husband headphones for the darn television!!! Now he can watch what he likes and I can read in "peace". Hallalujia!!!!!!!!

Welcome Sexy Sixty, You have come to the right place to talk about Books.

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Welcome SEXY SIXTY! PAT has given you the link to the entire menu for Books & Literature here on SeniorNet. If you like to share books with friends using media mail, you might be interested in our Book Exchange or Books Wanted discussions. We do exactly that. The Book Exchange has a list of books people are offering and Books Wanted lists books that people are looking for.

What are you reading? Is it different this time of the year? How?

I seem to be reading the same kind of book all year. Mostly romances. I have thrown in a few romantic suspense stories too. I have certain favorite authors and tend to read as many of their books as I can.

I've been reading The Jane Austen Book Club by Karen Joy Fowler so that I could participate in the SeniorNet book discussion. I've also been reading the usual romance novels and light mysteries and thrillers. I went to the library today and found an old copy of Emma by Jane Austen which I checked out to reread. They didn't have this book when We started the JABC discussion. Each chapter in that book is related to one of Jane Austen's 6 published novels. Sue

Hello, everybody. I am new on this thread. Yes, I am a book addict. Why do I love to read? I started to read very early in my teens for information, but not for one would really call 'information'. I wanted to find out how the human mind and soul works, and I thought novels could give me an insight. For a long time it continued on this line, but later I made a detour and switched to reading history. I love novels and also history, but not historical novels. Now I also read for going to places and times where I cannot go physically. Say I am nuts, but now I read mainly medieval literature. I often have discussions (not arguments) with my son, also a history fan, but he cannot understand how my reading leads to understanding history. I try to explain to him that literature is the 'inside' of history; it shows the development of human soul that directed history; like an X-ray image, it shows what is--was--on the inside.

I also read for enjoyment. My latest discovery was some novels of Andei Makine. I got the hint about him in Pushkin Press, and also on Babel Guide.

HEGESO: Welcome!

Your post delights me. I am especially taken with your statement

"I try to explain to him that literature is the 'inside' of history; it shows the development of human soul that directed history; like an X-ray image, it shows what is--was--on the inside."

I, personally, don't think any type of reading is "nuts" and, since you enjoy medieval literature, you will have knowledge that I won't get by reading mostly contemporary works.

That is a terrific post and I truly understand what you are saying. There is such a wide vareity of books offered here at SeniorNet Books and Lit. for the eclectic taste.

The *Boston Globe* carried a story July 19, 2004, about a government agent denying a person the right to give away free copies of *Walden* at Walden Pond. The story may be seen at:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/07/19/fighting_to_be_free <

Mike Moldeven

I have always wanted to read. Because I wanted it so much, I didn't think the day would ever come when I would be elgible for school. What good fortune I had. I finally entered first grade, learned to read and was able to take books home. Learning to read was definitely a turning point in my life.

Because reading is like eating to me (I overindulge in both), I rarely think about why I read. Rencently I read "Read with Me" by Walter Anderson. Walter is editor-in-chief of Parade magazine and active in getting America to read. He tells of how, as a young person, he had to be careful and not let his father catch him reading. If he was caught he was hit very hard, so hard that he would promise never to read again. He never kept those promises. He explains that his father was an alcoholic from an alcoholic family with no chance of breaking the pattern of failure tied into alcohol abuse. Walter's father, a nonreader, couldn't understand why Walter took to reading. Reading, as was Walter's experience, opens up doors to other possibilities--and that is why I read.

Walter's story is like a version of the story I would tell if I were to write about reading in relationship to my family. They couldn't figure out why I liked to read so much and were kind of mean about it. But I kept on reading anyway. I read history, philosophy, and books on religion for information; best sellers and mystery for fun; mythology, literature and fiction for inspiration and guidance to the ongoing quandries of life.

showdog (Wayne) That is so sad. I can not imagine being raised like that. My dad never got out of Junior high but would be found reading Plutarch, encyclopedias -anything he could find to read. I was always encouraged to read and enjoy what I was reading, as a child.

SHOWDOG: Thank you for sharing your story with us. My father was always reading in his spare time. He had lots of hobbies so there wasn't as much spare time and he probably wanted. I remember my mother, 95 years old now, reading the newspaper and magazines more than books. She did like biographies. My brother and I were encourage to read and I encouraged my children to read.

My mother put cloth books in my crib. My first experience of books was chewing on them. Everyone in my family read and told big expansive stories. Reading was an escape and storytelling was highly approved of and a source of entertainment. I carry a book with me everywhere the way a child might tote around a security blanket. It feels like I have a friend along with me wherever I go.

I'm like you, Anthology - never without a book. Even in the car on short in-town errands - you never know when you might get caught in a traffic jam and have to just sit there for a while. Then you REALLY need a book.

ANTHOLOGY and MARYZ: I am another one who carries a book everywhere. I don't like to wait and sometimes waiting can not be avoided. I found reading to be my answer. I have a treadmill at home and I even read when I am walking on the treadmill.

Lots of folks at the Y read while on the treadmills and elliptical trainers. I ride the recumbent stationary bicycle and always read there, too - even if it's only for 10 minutes or so.

MARYZ: I appreciated your post. Some friends I have, who don't use a treadmill, commented that my workout would be better if I was concentrating on my walking rather than reading. I am glad to know I am not alone reading on my treadmill.

I can't imagine anything more boring than spending half-an-hour on a treadmill, eliptical trainer, step climber, stationary bicycle, etc., without a book to read. YUCK! Keep reading, Marjorie.

I use audio books on the treadmill and bike.. Books dont quite work for me.. the jogging movement gets me seasick to concentrate on the book. So audio books work perfectly.

When I was at Borders yesterday I thought about buying the audio tape of Bill Clinton's My Life to listen to on our drive south. I was affraid that his voice would put me to sleep so I didn't buy it. He speaks well and I love to listen to that southern voice but it IS a long ride and a very long tape.

Since I don't drive, I take the bus. I always have a book handy so I can read as soon as I sit down. I also choose to get on and off at the bus stop that gives me the most reading time. It means a bit more walking but the payoff is worth it. Once I forgot my book so I promptly got off the bus. Luckily it was during peak hours so I was able to get another bus and still get to where I was going on time.

I've tried to read while walking but the print bobbles too much for me. I use book tapes while on the stationary bike, but for the treadmill and elliptical trainer I enjoy using music tapes.

I have always been a reader. So I am grateful for having as many books as I do as well the time to read them. If ever I felt reading was a waste of time, that feeling was put to rest after hearing Azar Nafisi speak on C-Span.

Azar Nafisi wrote "Reading Lolita in Tehran". I read the book and was impressed. How could these people in Iran get so much more out of western literature than most westerners (including myself) I wondered. Her talk helped me understand the value of reading. I got a better feeling for the connection between fiction and reality. Fiction, the imagination at work grounded in reality, creates new paths, discovers new truths.

Nafisi is a forceful, dynamic person who gets her points across with deep emotion. You know she cares. She is critical of the western press. She thinks there is too much sensationalism in our news coverage (i.e., the Scott Peterson tril) and not enough coverage where the focus needs to be (i.e., the crisis in Sudan). Not everyone likes her or wants to hear what she has to say. As for me, she has not only fortified my reading habit, but she has made me more conscious of the need to read properly.

SHOWDOG: What is your definition of "reading properly"? I definitely agree that there is too much attention in the media to things like the Scott Peterson trial. I would like to see more attention paid to positive things and less to violence.

I guess I feel the opposite. I think that western literature is just that. Westerners read it in contex.. I think that in the middle east culture, things are taken quite differently and therefore they do not get the true meaning. As for who is the most sensational.. We dont show executions on tv and they certainly do.

Reading properly to me means digging deeper; going beneath the surface. Book discussions in Reading Lolita... were not unlike book club discussions that I have belonged to. The main difference is that Reading Lolita is a memoir based on a class taught by Nasif. Therefore participants in Lolita came prepared and were anxious for thought provoking discussion. The book club discussions that I've participated in didn't have that depth to them. While our discussions were always fun, they really didn't move beyond what we already knew and what the text "said".

I like to read and usually have one in progress. I read for entertainment and not for retaining the story. I just finished reading a series by Ross about a "Miss Julia." By the time I had finished the second book, I was rather irritated by the woman, but I kept reading. She definitely, in my opinion, is a woman who thinks she knows more than anyone else, and is "my way" or "no way." I read all of Danielle Steele's books and wonder how she can come up with so many situations. I must say she has gotten milder than she was at one time. I like to read love stories, but I don't necessarily have to know about each touch, kiss, whatever.

BETTY: What you are describing is similar to how I read. I read for entertainment also. I don't want to know about every kiss and touch either. I am more interested in the plot. It seems to me that there are certain plots that have been written about by more than one author. There are also times that I pick up a book and have forgotten that I have read it before. A couple of years ago I started to make a list of the books I have read (and have waiting to read) so I don't buy as many duplicates as I used to.

I find that it depends on what I am reading for as to whether I dig beneath or not.. Light mysteries are definitely a one layer book, but some authors are really writing on several levels at once. I just listened to Ahab's wife on audio and this is a multilevel type book. I found it so interesting that I am going to buy the book,,Generally on the audio tapes, I dont own the book, but I want to reread this one..Fascinating observations on history and other fiction.

At Barnes & Noble (awhile ago)I found a sale notebook designed for us bookies. It is a spiral bound notebook with hard covers. It starts with a section of Books Borrowed/On Loan: goes onto Books Recommened, followed by Books Read. The Books Read section is the largest. In the Books Read section each page has a line for the Title, Author, Publisher, Recommended By, Date Read, followed by Thoughts About the Book which has many lines.

I use this as a reference so I also add the copyright, ISBN, pages, my rating, hard/soft cover, own/library. There are many Journals with hard covers that could be set up the same way.

GINNY ANN: The notebook you found is a wonderful resource. I just use my computer so that I can keep the list sorted by Author and can search for particular titles. I applaud you for keeping all that information on the books you read. I will remember that when I see your recommendations in the future.

At one time, I kept a list of all of the books I was reading, but somewhere along the line, I forgot about the list. Don't think I will start a new list...

BETTY: I think it would be very difficult to start a new list that provided any help if it has been a year or more since I stopped listing my books. Maybe you can try to be like those people who are not list makers. There must be plenty of those in this world and I am sure some of them are readers.

I also have a list on my computer. It goes way back, probably at least 40+ years. It even has listed some of the books I read in High School. It was a large job putting it on a database, but well worth the effort. Back when I first started I used a three ring binder. I had a page for each letter of the alphabet and kept track by the author's last name. My usual method is to write the information in a notebook as soon as I can after I have finished a book, then when I have the time and patience I enter them onto it.

I guess the only way I am organized with my books, is that I do have them placed on the shelves in alphabetical order, according to the author.

As I posted elsewhere, I am presenting reading Luanne Rice's "Beach Girls" and am enjoying it. Have any of you read it?

I haven't read it, Betty, but I'm going to look for it soon at the used book store, as I am going to the Books at the Beach event--at least the first weekend. I'd already read the Mary Alice Monroe and the Pat Conroy beach books. I probably need to review both before January. Sue

Im going to the beach gathering as well. I have read the Conroy and Rice, but still need to catch up with the Monroe..

I have thought a lot about you since we got back into Florida. Did you fare alright with the hurricanes? Are you in Clarement yet?

We just moved into Ocala, two days before Frances greeted us with her wrath. I just got back online this evening.

I think I am going to make a definite commitment about going to the Book Affair in Isle of Palms. The more I think about it, the more I want to go. That way I can meet some of you nice people.

BETTY: Do post here and let everyone know of your desire to be part of Books on the Beach.

Marjorie, just posted in another "post" but coming here, you said to post "here" about attending "Books on the Beach," and so decided I'd better enter it here, also.

Marjorie, just posted in another "post" but coming here, you said to post "here" about attending "Books on the Beach," and so decided I'd better enter it here, also. That would be for Friday, the 28th and for the weekend.

I am sorry for the confusion. When I said post "here" I made the word "here" into a link. You could have clicked onto the word and gotten to the other discussion. I found later that you had posted in the Books on the Beach discussion and that was my intention.

If you put your cursor (pointer) over a word that is underlined and it changes shape then you will know that the word is a link and clicking on it will take you somewhere else. I, personally, almost never underline a word because I would confuse that with a link.

I realized just the other day that Netscape sometimes underlines things that I don't mean to underline so I don't always have control over that. I don't know of any exceptions to the cursor changing shape over a link.

Ginny Ann - a friend I used to bowl with, had the same interests in reading as I. We would have to be reminded to get up and bowl because we were always talking about books/authors. She had her entire home library set up in a database, and copied it off for me. Sorry to say, I have misplaced it, but know I still have it. I have so many, many books, (no more space to keep them) but I wish I had the time and impetus to set up my own database. I do keep a running list of my favorite authors, their books, publish dates, usually as a reference when I'm going to the library.

but now since I am 78 I'm following the example of Samuel Pepys who restricted his library to one bookcase--not a huge one. That bookcase with contents extant at the time of Pepys' death, stands in one of the famous English universities. He bought books constantly and culled and culled so that only his favorites were in that bookcase. I'm really enjoying getting my library down to the same manageable dimensions. Elizabeth

It is called Zooba and its founding company is the Book of the Month Club. You sign up to purchase one hardcover book every month. You make a list on the Zooba website of the books you want sent. Every book costs $9.95 only with no shipping fees, taxes or postage costs.

Someone posted (in one of the book forums - sorry I don't remember which one, as I have gone way back and read most of them) that they had purchased a booklovers diary, spiralbound to record all things pertinent to reading etc. I think they said from B&N. If that person could tell me which of the diaries it was, B&N lists 24 diaries, a couple or three are spiralbound. I'd love to get one for myself. And thanks Elizabeth for telling about the Zooba site. I'll check it out.

How much is the "small recurring membership fee" they mention?

tomereader - I got this book journal from B&N
Brownlow BOOKLOVERSJOURNAL from the The Booklover's Collection. ISBN 1-57051-826-2 UPC (7)0038262(7)

tomereader I just e-mailed you with scanned in views of the front and back of my book journal.

Prima Soft Organizer Deluxe.

This is what I found to be the best software I could find to keep a record of the books I have read. It also organizes most anything in the world you could think of wanting to organize.

you can go to www.primasoft.com and check it out. I really enjoy mine.

Thanks gaj and judy. Everyone here is so helpful!

TigerTom asekd (Tiger Tom 4/22/02 7:26pm) about early influences, including any roadblocks put up to reading when we were kids. With me, it was just the opposite--I got encouragement everywhere I turned. I loved browsing in the libraries: first as a nine- or ten-year-old in Brookfield, Mo. at the Carnegie Library near our house; then in the one in Garden City, Ks., where my father and I moved after my mother died in '52; and finally at the enormous and rich University of Kansas library, where, as an Honor Student, I had stack privileges and could browse at will. My mother started teaching me to read and write at home, even before I got into first grade!

And one of my most vivid memories is opening a birthday present from an aunt in Oklahoma, when I was ten years old. It turned out to be a junior version of the dictionary--aimed at elementary-school students, but seeming huge in my small hands. As though heaven were confirming the importance of that gift, a thunderstorm happened to be in progress, and the two little girls (classmates) and I who were about to dive into the birthday cake my mother had baked, looked out the window and saw ball lightning bouncing along the grass! I'll never forget that special moment.

I think that was the start of a lifelong love affair with dictionaries: I have at least six or seven on my desk now, along with various foreign-language ones, dictionaries of quotations, etc.

Devoting a lot of time to the Net has cut sadly into my reading hours. I have good intentions about reading more (on paper, that is), but the allure of sites like this one is seductive indeed.

But I've nobody to blame but myself if my reading has declined. I still collect books and am more likely to visit bookstores than any other kind except the grocery!

Welcome JON! Isn't it a shame that there aren't more hours in a day so you can read and be on the computer. I don't want more time for chores -- just for "play."

I don't remember my childhood reading habits too clearly. I know that my father was always a reader. My mother read magazines and newspapers. She rarely read a book. Maybe she was influenced by the amount of time she had for reading.

I remember comic books and the titles of some books -- Hardy Boys, Winnie the Pooh, etc. I just don't "see" myself reading. I know I spent more time reading that I did playing outside with other kids. There was no TV then. My brother spent more of his time with other kids than he did reading.

I took my children to the library frequently.

I learned to read at a very early age. My mother taught me the old-fashioned way, as she was taught in her one room schoolhouse. She made it very easy for me. My dad was an inveterate reader! Always had a book, magazine, newspaper in hand. My mother used to gripe at the both of us "always got your noses stuck in a book". We had an upstairs neighbor who read all the time, and I would take some of her novels downstairs with me. We had a large, lighted walk-in closet that I used for a "reading room" or any large cardboard box with a flashlight would suffice. I was reading adult fiction by 10 or 11, but adult fiction then, was NOT as it is now. I didn't get my first library card to the public library until I was 18, and could drive myself there. One might say, I made up for lost time!! I have been reading 3 to five books a week for years. It has been a salvation.

I taught myself to read before I went to school because I desperately wanted to. I spent only 6 weeks in the first class before I was promoted. My parents had no books in the home but relatives would buy me books because they knew I was crazy about them.

I read my first adult book at age 7. It was "Reach for the Sky" by Douglas Bader. The librarian at first refused to issue the book for me and looked askance at my mother. My mother told her I could read it and asked me to read a passage to the librarian. The librarian then issued the book.

When we moved into a new house when I was 8 a neighbour who was a stevedore but an avid reader ( He went to University when he retired and last I heard he has several degrees) had a huge bookcase with much good literature in it and I was allowed to borrow any book I liked. I read all sorts of books many which would have been at the time considered unsuitable for children. He had all the penguin classics which included books by Daphne Du Maurier and Dickens. I have always liked Daphne Du Maurier since then.

Now I read a huge range of books but as I have a problem reading for any length of time I only manage one serious book a week. The rest of the time I listen to audio books. There are some classics in our library system but most of the books are light fiction. I have got to enjoy crime novels particularly those by Anne Perry. I have listened to quite a lot of travel books such as the Bill Bryson one about the Appalachian trail which I thoroughly enjoyed. I could vividly picture the trip and his writing is lively and entertaining as well as full of facts and description.

I have just been to the library today with my four year old grandaughter and sat through story time with her.The Childrens librarian at the branch we went to is amazing. They had four topical songs and four books as well as interaction with a felt board as the librarian read the stories. The kids just love it. The librarian had actions to do with all the songs. Todays topic was elephants. Grace loved it and came home with two work sheets the librarian had compiled featuring elephants.

Carolyn

CAROLYN: Thank you for sharing your story about how you learned to read at an early age even without parents who were readers. Good for you! I don't remember learning to read. I don't think my mother liked to take me to the library although she did so sometimes. She was worried about the books being dirty because a lot of people had handled them. Of course, she learned that when she was growing up. I remember my grandmother, who washed all her dishes herself by hand, taking a glass out of the closed cabinet and washing it before getting a drink for herself.

I learned to read with Dick and Jane and Spot and Puff. We went to the library a lot as it was within walking distance and there was a park on the way. I also remember my mother reading to us every night. I remember a book called 365 Bedtime Stories.

We had that book too when I was little - and I remember my mom reading to us every night also. She loved to read herself, but didn't have much time beyond the newspaper, so reading to us was a pleasure for herself too. We were one of the few families in our rural area that had a daily paper sent to us - we all read it from the time we could sound out words. My dad's education, formal, that is, stopped when he was 13, but he read that paper from front to back every day.

I haven't thought of that book of bedtime stories for a long time - brings back a lot of happy memories. Thanks.

N

I can remember sitting on the front porch waiting for the afternoon daily paper to arrive. I wanted to read the comics and as I grew older (12 or so), started reading everything, including editorials and the sports page. I need a morning paper now to get my day started. The first thing I read now is the front page and I want to go straight through each section in order. It's a good thing the obituaries are on page 2! LOL.

I had a 365 Day story book which I read to my sons, although that was only a choice when we didn't have something else. We bought lots of books from children's book clubs and I took the boys to the library every week. Sue

One of my favorite pre school books was Uncle Arthurs stories for Children.Think it was put out by the Seventh day Adventist Church. Mum bought it from a door to door salesman for me. It was a Christmas present and was the only large book in our home. Relations had bought us a lot of golden books for presents but this book was special and such a big book. It was the only book of mine that survived our house being gutted by fire. It smelt of smoke each time I read it and the smoke smell never left it. How I loved those stories which were illustrated by real photos and had a moral to every tale. Anyone else remember these books which were distributed world wide.

Carolyn

I do laugh at the reading stories. I have two sons.. The older one is an Engineer and true to this bent,, when he was little ( say 3), he would insist as we started to read the bedtime story.."Is it true". Now I loved fairy tales and Oz and Winnie.. but he never ever wanted that. You dont want to know how many stories about the stars and exploring I read to this small person. His brother thank heaven, shared my passion for Oz and Winnie and now I have a wonderful granddaughter, who shares my passion for fairies and princesses. Its neat to finally get to read the stories I like.. And true to his self.. my older one still never ever reads fiction.. Sigh.. Such a waste.

Stephanie my grandson Josh is the same. You have to read non fiction to him. He has no interest in fiction at all! Last time I stayed over he insisted I read a huge book of mechanical discoveries to him ( he was five at the time). After an hour I was hoarse and told him it was time to go to sleep.

Carolyn

Same experience here Kiwi Lady - For me it's reptiles while I'm dying to read old favorites like Mary Poppins.....<sigh>

Ah, those scientific persons start at a really early age. Sort of amazing when you think of it. I have a daughter in law who is dyslexic.. Has been forever. Her Mother who was a very wise woman found a way to make Penni want to read. When Penni was an early teen and into romance, her Mom started giving her those numbered romance type books. They are short, use easy words and a set sort of plot.. Penni adored them, reads them to this day and credits them with helping her read well enough to go through college. Amazing what a thinking parent can accomplish

Josh came visiting yesterday and his Mum said he woke up on Sun morning with a stiff neck. He was convinced he had meningitis. He ran downstairs crying and frightened. He had been reading about it in the doctors room. Most 6yr olds would not have read the information bulletins in the doctors. He is such a sponge for knowledge the stuff he reads can sometimes scare him.

Carolyn

At this time I would like to follow up on why read?and What are you reading?For years all I did was read what related to work,wrote a great deal,and again related to work,and the schedule so insane as most of us surely have fallen in that catagory,have not had the luxury of reading for pleasure. I retired 6 years ago and through an unusual circumstance getiing ready for a 40th class reunion.I met an old buddy that was a close friend 40years earlier.He became a great writer.Has over 60 books published and making a wonderful living at it.He was the one that knew part of my life and he was the one that once he heard part of my past 40 years insisted that my life needed to be put on paper for the world to read.I thought it was silly at the time,but after much encouragement from him and his wife ,I dove into the project.I am not at this time going to go into my book and how it has taken off but now that I got involved in writing and reading for pleasure ,I find myself enjoying it very much and accidentally enriching myself with knowledge from so many areas.Reading is so powerful and sadly I missed a lot,but I have the time now to get some of that back. A pleasure to be reading many of your comments. Franco

Congratulations to you, Franco, on your committment to writing and pleasure reading. The old saw, "Better Late than Never" certainly applies to you! Sue

Several years ago, the thought occurred to me that I should write down some things that had happened to me during my lifetime. I, at first, had one-liners and I actually thought of about seventy things.

Then, when I got my computer, I decided to put those one-liners into book form. About six years ago, at Christmastime, I gave all three of my children a copy of it. They were delighted. Now, when I think of something that I had not thought of before, I add it to my composition named "Me."

I have instructed one of my grandsons that, after I die, for him to print out a copy of "Me" and give a copy to each family member.

I allowed several of my friends to read it and they said they enjoyed it! However, I will never have it published for it is not THAT interesting.

BETTY: Your book is something that will provide a great history for those in your family to read over the generations. What a thoughtful gift. Did you learn something about yourself in the process of writing the book?

Dear Betty to response of #893. Since my book was released,as I mentioned in a number of messages,it has received international reviews.But as you mentioned ,an area that is most satisfying is what happened to me during an interview with our local Newspaper people(The Ahwatukee Foothills News)They were at our house for an article as a follow up to the LA Times article of Oct 15th,2004. They were asking many questions about the book, and how I felt about the recent publicity and speaking engagements that it has brought about.Before I could answer them, my daughter who is 38 responded with this. "Although it is wonderful that my Dad is getting attention for writing the memoir,we (her brothers and herself)are excited about it as our children will get to read about their grandfather about events that happened and they will not be distorted by not remembering or actually for not being there, as some took place with my brother and some with me.Many wonderful stories were about my Dad alone or with other family members and we now will be able to share it as a family. Not only will my son enjoy it ,but so will his son or daughter." My point is that events and stories erode so quickly,while a book will be there for ever. Keep on doing your thing. Ciao` Franco

Although I have read and still read continuously throughout my life, since I have been born media have diversified and multiplied to such a large extent that reading print on paper per se has been reduced in comparison to other forms of communication. When I was a kid around eight or nine years old I read on average about seven books a week and went to the movies once a week. There was no TV but the radio was another avenue into my intellectual growth. Nowadays the easy accessibility of films, TV, and all the interactive processes available through the computer, reading books and magazines plays a much smaller part in my life in print form although reading is an integrated function required for access to computer interaction.

Welcome JAN! You might find the discussion that is going on in First Page Cafe right now interesting. Click here to get to the beginning of the discussion about reading on the Internet vs. reading books you can hold in your hand.

Your description of changes in the media from when you were little until now is very clear. I have been thinking about another change that seems apparent to me. It seems that everything, except a book, is filled with little bits and pieces of information -- "sound bites" if you will. Maybe it has something to do with the fast pace of people around me. When I listen to the news, or get the news on the Internet, I feel like I am only getting a tiny piece of the whole story. Maybe not even a piece that would be the most important to me.

Marjorie

You are right that the information that we obtain from ephemerial sources such as TV news and even documentaries are mere amusing and puzzling bits and pieces unless a firm foundation is first established by the immense resources available in books and a solid primary education. I have been lucky enough to have had a reasonable exposure to both and these foundations which have provided docking points for the bits of daily information that flows in through current media and gives these bits the significance they deserve and provides me with an understanding of the implications of new events and discoveries.

Jan, you no longer read seven books per week? How sad. There are so many books. I don't watch much TV, getting my stimulation from NPR, which is in my background almost 24/7. So I am spared the gut-wrenching visuals TV so delights in but am kept au courant through PC and radio.

I also am an NPR addict. Radio is so much more permissive than TV so that I can perform other tasks while listening. I was originally a New Yorker but live in Helsinki now and WQXR on my computer keeps me in touch. Also Talk of the Nation on NPR with Science Friday is worthwhile. On WQXR Leonard Lopate MCs a show very much concerned with books and authors and his wide knowledge of almost everything gives him a platform to ask the most interesting questions - and his staff must be quite competent to clue in Leonard and the audience in the most cogent manner.

Jan, how interesting that you're living in Helsinki. How did you happen to wind up there? We're going to take a river trip from St. Petersburg to Moscow in August, and are going to spend (I think) three days in Helsinki before hand. Any advice or must-sees from you?

It depends upon what you are interested in. There are many good museums here and many good restaurants. There is a tourist center at the harbor end of Esplanadi which is a main street with a park running down the middle and they can supply you with brochures and advice. Some of the more interesting shops are along this avenue as well as one of the largest book shops in Scandinavia - Akademikirjakauppa. You might be interested in a large amusement park with all sorts of rides - Linnanmaki. One of the more interesting things you might do is take a ferry across the Baltic Sea to Tallinn,the capitol of Estonia which has an old city built several hundred years ago and is more or less set up for tourists with many restaurants and craft shops and galleries. My e-mail address is jan_sand@hotmail.com so if you contact me I could mail you brochures and maps. You could probably Google a good deal of information as Helsinki has several sites on the web.

Thanks for the brief overview, Jan. I'll probably get in touch with you as we get closer in time. I really haven't started on our research yet. I love the idea of the ferry to Tallinn (I think we'll be taking the train from Helsinki to St. Petersburg). And we always love local crafts and galleries.

Jan, your Leonard Lopate sounds like my Michael Krasny. His knowledge of current events, his aquaintenceship with interesting people of letters and other arts, it is astounding how one person can be hip to so much. You are the first NPR junkie I've met. But how does the computer thing work? I've heard people on Will Shortz' puzzles on Sunday say they get the program on their computer. I can't miss Science Friday. Glad to meet you!

You merely have to present Google with the letters "NPR" and a site will be indicated. Once you have reached the NPR site you will be able to locate one of the NPR stations. I use WQXR. Google can probably send you there by using the letters WQXR. You must have speakers and a sound card on your computer. The option to download free sound software will be presented. If you bookmark the site you can reach it easily anytime you desire.

Thanks. I'll be getting the new Headless MAC soon, so will have all the latest bells and whistles.

Antidipating my retirement 18 months hence, I am collecting some of the recent Shakespeariana, i.e., Will in the World, Harold Bloom's book, even Isaac Azimov's Guide to Shakespeare. I intend to read all his plays and the relevant commentary when I retire. My son laughs, says I will not be able to finish Titus Andronicus (he calls is a slasher), but I intend to persevere. Marjorie Garber, Harvards professor, has written just under 1,000 pages, Shakespeare After All, based on her 30 years of lectures at Harvard and Yale. In chronological order. These books are exciting, hefty, beautiful dustjackets, delightful to all my senses. I shall be looking for equally sensual editions of the plays to complement my resource material. Any suggestions?

JACKIE: I hope someone comes along soon with some suggestions for you. I can tell from your post that you have some exciting reading planned for your retirement. Just because your son doesn't think you will enjoy all your chosen reading matter, doesn't make one bit of difference. The big thing is that you chose something that works for you. I went in a different direction when I retired and lined up needlework projects. Having something exciting planned will be great. How soon do you retire?

Marjorie, I will retire in August, 2005. I do needlework, also. My cousin lives near the other coast, and she and I email. She's a quilter, so I'm going to give that a try. I knit and do needlepoint. Gardening is another activity I will pursue as is gourmet cooking. I'll try to keep busy, and my son was just teasing me. What needlework do you pursue?

I do needlepoint also. When we moved into a new house in December of 1997 (just after retiring), there was a narrow wall just in front of the entrance door. I stitched a flapper that was 5 feet by 9 inches. Then I had a wide frame put around her and she greets people as they enter our house.

In the summer of 2000 I stopped needlepointing because we got our 5th and 6th cats that summer. I never did get back to it but recently we framed all our finished pieces and hung them in the family room so we could enjoy them. They certainly look much nicer when they are framed.

Pictures of some of my needlepoint is here in the Craft Gallery of Seniornet.

P.S. There isn't a picture of the long piece that I did. The first one in the gallery is by the same artist and similar in style.

JACKIE: You said your cousin lives "near the other coast." What coast do you live near?

Jackie, you should join us in the Needles, Hooks & Shuttles Discussion.

Marjorie, I love your flapper!

I live in California and my cousin lives near Rochester, NY. Your needlepoint pieces are gorgeous! Who is the artist who created The Flapper? One of your pillows looks like a Georgia O'keefe, I've been knitting scarves, those fancy yarns, like eyelash, are just too wonderful, and they are really fast cause you use 15 and 17 needles!

JACKIE: I am glad you liked the pictures. For more good ones check out PURPLE SAGE. She is my housemate. We have a lot of needlepoint hanging on our walls. We also have tons of books lying around our house. Always something to pick up and read.

I have been lax about posting here. Are there still people around?

Do you find that the types of books you read vary from time to time? I am reading light material right now because for more than 6 months my focus has been on the things we need to do in this house to keep us both healthy.

I think I vary what I read with my mood and/or what is going on in my life. If I'm a bit downhearted, I go for something light and usually funny. I've been reading light mysteries lately, but my major project was reading all 20 of the Patrick O'Brian Naval Historical novels. When I returned the last one last week, I was so pleased to find his unfinished novel, 21, on the shelf. He was writing it when he died at age 85 in 2002. I wish he'd been able to finish it. Sue

When I as a kid there was a good deal less variety in the media to convey information and most of it was not interactive. Today the computer and TV has replaced much of the previous media and it seems to me that the quality of communication has decreased. A good deal more seems to be commercially driven and although the quantity of communication has increased immensely the mix seems to have changed so that it is less thoughtful in general and more involved with misinformation. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems to me that reading books is less prevalent in favor of TV and films and fragmentary information from the computer. Libraries in the USA seem to have become considered a tax burden and many are closing or have highly restricted hours. And perhaps I am kidding myself but it seems to me that many more kids are getting out of school with less reading capability.

Jan, those are deep thoughts. Since the children in my life are now adult, I haven't thought about that. People I know with children (around 9 or so) still read to them, but they also do the movies, TV, computer bits as well. For myself, I have decided to eschew TV for the most part, watching maybe an average of one hour/day: movies, weather, science, etc. From my reading I understand that blogs have become a potent force politically: in the desimination of news, for campaign fund raising, and for attracting like-minded to form communities of thought. Unintended consequences...

Jan and Jackie, you both make good points.

I was an elementary teacher who specialized in reading--I think lots of children in my classes, even those from families which did not read, learned to enjoy reading for reading's sake. My own children were and are avid readers. Unfortunately, my grandchildren spend too much time with computers, TV, and video games, although the 2 younger ones were read to a great deal and I still read to them and give them books for gifts at the parents' request. The very best way to get children to read is to read one's self and to read to them.

Unfortunately many primary and elementary teachers today are not as conscious of this and are also pressured to work on skills which are to be tested. It seems educators are under the "test taking" gun and to my notion, spend too much time in test preparation and not enough in establishing an inquiring atmosphere with a wide variety of reading materials to motivate learning. Sue

I have to agree with you Sue. Before the BC I tutored reading and substituted in lower elementary grades. I had to follow lesson plans that revolved around test taking. The problem with all of this test taking is the kids aren't learning to think just learning to pass a test. I remember learning stuff just to pass a test then not working to retain the knowledge.

The one good thing about computers though, you have to know how to read to really use them. Some children maybe doing more reading than we think.

One of the capabilities endowed by reading is to develop the utilties of the imagination which permit the mind to fabricate a totality from a few suggestions. Reading capitalizes on this to the utmost so that when I read a book my mind creates an internal visual reality which is a cooperation between what the author suggests and the experience I have had.

In this manner, each reading and each reader acquires a different experience dependent upon the way the world has informed the reader. A film or a TV show or even a computer experience draws much less upon the internal experience of the viewer. I remember the early science fiction films made before special effects became sophisticated and since I had read the original stories, my imagination had been far superior to what was presented on the screen and I was terribly disappointed.

But, with computer simulation, the picture changed entirely and the special effects are now usually very spectacular and live up to the promise of the story. The unfortunate other side is that the viewer, unlike the reader of the book, is deprived of the opportunity to invest his/her personal imagination in the story and the imaginative capability of their minds is deprived.

I have done a few screenplays for films (unfortunately never realized) but there is a profound difference in the writing for film and for a reader. In a film the internal thoughts of the characters must be visually displayed by dialogue suggestion or the capabilities of the actors. A book can actually speak the thoughts of the characters and let them say how and why they do what they do. This is possible in a skillful film but it is usually not as rich nor as clear as in a written story.

in the park in Red Wing, MN	Why I read Entertainment? Knowledge? Information? Escape? Succor? Travel? Adventure? Romance?	What I read Fiction? Nonfiction? What types? What do I recommend?
WHY DO YOU READ? WHAT DO YOU READ? ARE YOU A BOOK ADDICT? Contact: Marjorie